1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,119 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. M 4 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:26,439 Speaker 1: welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my 5 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:28,840 Speaker 1: name is Noel. They call me Ben. We are joined 6 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 1: with our super producer, Paul the p O decond But 7 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:34,839 Speaker 1: most importantly, you are you and you are here, and 8 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:37,519 Speaker 1: that makes this stuff they don't want you to know, 9 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:41,280 Speaker 1: like parole officer or you know. We're big fans of acronyms. 10 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:44,960 Speaker 1: Just nail us nails your favorite, maail, it's your favor 11 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 1: oh boy, uh yeah, right now. Usually Paul will have 12 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 1: Talkback Mike turned on so he can tell us how 13 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: lame he thinks our jokes are. We took it away 14 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:02,920 Speaker 1: because he was hurting our feelings. So he's throwing us 15 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 1: thumbs up and thumbs down. Not a thumb my friend. 16 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:09,440 Speaker 1: Let's hope we do them proud. That was just shade, 17 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 1: all right, we have you know, you can tell we 18 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:15,559 Speaker 1: all get along famously, folks, and we have a lot 19 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:18,639 Speaker 1: of levity on this show. And part of the reason 20 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:20,960 Speaker 1: that we're opening with some jokes today is because today 21 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:25,759 Speaker 1: we're going to examine something that is incredibly important, not 22 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 1: just in the US, but in the world overall. And 23 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:35,440 Speaker 1: it's also something that isn't fully explored in your typical 24 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 1: mainstream news stories. You'll maybe hear five minutes about something 25 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 1: right on CNN or on MSNBC or Fox News or whatever, 26 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:48,920 Speaker 1: whatever your news program of choice is. This is a 27 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:51,920 Speaker 1: topic today that you probably won't know a lot about 28 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:55,560 Speaker 1: unless it's touched your life in some way very close 29 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 1: within a few degrees absolutely, I mean, and now we 30 00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 1: are seeing some very alarm I would say, reasonably so 31 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 1: headlines that is pushing some of the stuff to the forefront, 32 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 1: which we'll get into as well, but beyond that, it's 33 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:09,519 Speaker 1: certainly not something that was across my day to day 34 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:14,360 Speaker 1: thinking friends and neighbors. If you are a resident of 35 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:17,800 Speaker 1: the United States, you've probably heard about the burgeoning and 36 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:24,400 Speaker 1: longstanding problems with this country's justice and incarceration system, and 37 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:28,799 Speaker 1: our episode today focuses on another aspect of that system 38 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 1: that the authorities, the politicians, and yes, the private prison 39 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 1: companies would probably rather you not know much about. That 40 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:40,560 Speaker 1: is its effect on children and as as you know, 41 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:43,960 Speaker 1: if you are a longtime listener, one of Matt nolan 42 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:47,040 Speaker 1: I's favorite things to do when we are tackling the 43 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 1: topic of this magnitude is to find an expert, and 44 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:53,919 Speaker 1: luckily this time we succeeded. We would like to introduce 45 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:56,920 Speaker 1: to you Julian Wyatt. Julian, thank you for coming on 46 00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 1: the show. Thank you for having me. Julian tell us, uh, 47 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:02,360 Speaker 1: tell us about the organization you're a part of and 48 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 1: what you what you do within that organization. Yeah. So 49 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:08,239 Speaker 1: if every family is in Atlanta based nonprofit that was 50 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 1: founded in seven by Santra Barne Hill. She's still the 51 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 1: current executive director and CEO. UM The work we do 52 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:19,519 Speaker 1: is pretty much aimed at maintaining preserving the family bond 53 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:24,080 Speaker 1: for children or families who are experience and incarceration UM SO, 54 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:27,079 Speaker 1: one of our taglines is surrounding children with the love 55 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:30,120 Speaker 1: of family. But that's also like our approach as well. 56 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:33,240 Speaker 1: So one of the most popular and longest running programs 57 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 1: is that the Family Visitation Program where we once a 58 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 1: month gather up by the children and involving the organization, 59 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 1: and we provide transportation as well as meals to the 60 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 1: children as well as caregivers and we make about a 61 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 1: three hour drive there and back to three out of 62 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 1: the four UM women prison women women prisons within here 63 00:03:55,360 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 1: in Georgia, so that's Emmanuel Learondale as well as Pulowski. UM. 64 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 1: Other than that, you know, we just want to make 65 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 1: sure that you know, children are still aware that you know, 66 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 1: they're not alone with this experience. I was sleeping with those. 67 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 1: For the parents who are incarcerated, we provide different workshops 68 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 1: throughout the year, UM so they can you know, feel 69 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 1: confident about their abilities to still be involved in their 70 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:20,839 Speaker 1: child's life while they're you know, still serving their prison sentence. 71 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:23,159 Speaker 1: And for the characters as well, which has also left 72 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 1: out of the popular narrative, we vide different support and 73 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 1: services for them to easy to financial burden as they 74 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:31,360 Speaker 1: take care of um, you know, some of the children involved. 75 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:36,040 Speaker 1: And we're a real quick statistical backgrounds here. We know 76 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 1: that the US represents about four point four percent of 77 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:43,479 Speaker 1: the world's total population but houses around twenty two of 78 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 1: the world's prisoners, and it was shocking to us. It 79 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 1: was shocking to us that children were not included or 80 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 1: were missed in the narrative. As you say, Uh, We'd 81 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 1: like to ask a couple of questions about the kids themselves. 82 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:02,479 Speaker 1: Do they have a typical age range or does it 83 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 1: go across the spectrum. It's either across the spectrum. So 84 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:09,320 Speaker 1: even for our organization, we work form from infants all 85 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:12,159 Speaker 1: the way up through it to the age of eighteen. Wow. 86 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:17,040 Speaker 1: So these are you said, your primarily servicing women's prisons, 87 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 1: and so these are moms that you're going to visit, 88 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:24,839 Speaker 1: and you're taking the children to go visit their mom's 89 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:29,159 Speaker 1: in prison. Correct? Have you have you actually physically gone 90 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:32,839 Speaker 1: along with some of these visitations. I have my first 91 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:35,680 Speaker 1: prison visitation back in two thousand and fourteen when I 92 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:39,599 Speaker 1: was first interning at Forever Family. UM, and it's a 93 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:43,680 Speaker 1: powerful and moving experience. UM. We get to the organization 94 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:46,119 Speaker 1: about five o'clock in the morning. We provide you meals 95 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 1: to the children. UM. You know, we're trying to just 96 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:50,719 Speaker 1: make it as upbeat and friendly as possible though because 97 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 1: I know for some they are excited and also for 98 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:58,159 Speaker 1: some it's a kind of a difficult, you know, difficult situation. UM. 99 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 1: But we know we make sure that they have you know, 100 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:04,320 Speaker 1: food on the bus, rid theories. When we get in there, 101 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:06,839 Speaker 1: we have to check in, which is like an hour 102 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 1: loan process. There's no joke from background checks. We all 103 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:12,480 Speaker 1: have to get um, once we get there. If you're 104 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 1: a child, I think aunt the age of thirteen, you're 105 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 1: still able to go into the children's center. And this 106 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 1: is not at all three prisons. I think this is 107 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 1: just maybe at Pulawski one more not vercern to have 108 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 1: to cross reverence that and if you're over the age 109 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 1: of thirteen and eighteen, then you go to the general population. Uh. 110 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 1: So I've had the opportunity to go into the children's 111 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:31,680 Speaker 1: center actually for Mother's Day weekend, which was amazing. So 112 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 1: we provided food the mothers could, They had routines and 113 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 1: you just it's just so much physical connection and love 114 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:39,400 Speaker 1: and just they know that I have direct contact with 115 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 1: their children in a regular basis. They asked me questions 116 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:43,720 Speaker 1: about you know, how is Johnny doing in school? Um, 117 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 1: he's you know, messing up here. If you're you're free 118 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 1: to give him a talking pue him to the side. 119 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 1: So it's just yeah, it's just a great experience. You 120 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 1: could tell that it benefits both the mother who's in 121 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 1: cars firds with as the child. So statistically wise, UM, 122 00:06:56,520 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 1: if you maintain this relationship, then um, those who are 123 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:04,480 Speaker 1: in prison are more likely to um be conscious of 124 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:06,960 Speaker 1: their behavior while they're WHI they're serving their time. And 125 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 1: also it decreased the likeliness of the SAIDI is that 126 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 1: they overturned and refined and for the child at the 127 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 1: same time. UM, you know that still having that connection 128 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 1: ensurers that they're not missing out them much and they're 129 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 1: you know, still uh yes, surrounded by that love and 130 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 1: are able to then succeed and move forward and develop 131 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 1: as a normal childhood. And let's go back to something 132 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:34,160 Speaker 1: that you just mentioned that may amaze and surprise a 133 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:36,680 Speaker 1: lot of us in the audience here, and that is 134 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:41,440 Speaker 1: the process that not just the children, but you and 135 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 1: everyone who attempts a visitation has to undergo in order 136 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:49,600 Speaker 1: to actually make it in to visit the people imprisoned. 137 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 1: You said it's an hour long process. It is. And 138 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:55,120 Speaker 1: we try to get there um as early as possible 139 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:56,240 Speaker 1: as we get to the front of the line and 140 00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 1: make sure that the children have as much time as 141 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 1: possible to spend with their with their mothers. But it's 142 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:05,080 Speaker 1: you have to go through the metal detectors, and you know, 143 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:09,800 Speaker 1: they it's kind of dehumanizing in a sense, UM to 144 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:11,560 Speaker 1: the fact that once you get into this institution and 145 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 1: you kind of lose a sense of you know, your 146 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 1: sales saying for you at the same time that you're 147 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:17,679 Speaker 1: giving up so myself as you know, being a chaffer 148 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:20,680 Speaker 1: runner staff in braswell as the children as well who 149 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:25,440 Speaker 1: are kind of serving incarcerated but outside of the institution. 150 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 1: At the same time, any any kind of bureaucratic system 151 00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 1: like that, it always feels like you're in some kind 152 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 1: of cattle call or you're stuck in some way. It's 153 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:37,960 Speaker 1: very claustrophobic, I think is a word that I would 154 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:40,199 Speaker 1: use to describe. I can't imagine for a for a 155 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:42,200 Speaker 1: child have to go through that. And that's a great 156 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 1: point about bureaucracies. No, as you just said, these are 157 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:52,640 Speaker 1: arduous organizations, some would say inherently. And when we're talking 158 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:58,440 Speaker 1: about bureaucracies for institutions that are seen as quote unquote 159 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:01,959 Speaker 1: justly punishing some one for taking a taboo or a 160 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:06,760 Speaker 1: legal action, then oftentimes the reforms of those bureaucracies fall 161 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:09,600 Speaker 1: to the bottom of the list when it comes to funding, 162 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 1: when it comes to positive action of any sort. And 163 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 1: one of the questions that was on our mind that 164 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:19,479 Speaker 1: we wanted to ask you is whether you or your colleagues, 165 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:22,600 Speaker 1: or the caregivers, the parents, or even the children have 166 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:26,480 Speaker 1: encountered this bureaucracy acting in a well, I don't want 167 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 1: to say it an antagonistic manner, but maybe an unhelpful manner. Yeah, 168 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:36,200 Speaker 1: that's a very true. So I think we do criminals. Um, 169 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 1: they're label as master status of always being criminals and 170 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:41,160 Speaker 1: need to be punished accordingly. But we know, you know, 171 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 1: sometimes sitting and saying is not um as rational or 172 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 1: you know, as in line in regards to the offense. 173 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:51,120 Speaker 1: But I think doministates, dictations by society also believe that 174 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 1: these kids have incarcerated will end up with their parents, 175 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:56,440 Speaker 1: and so they treat them accordingly, and they don't believe 176 00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 1: they're gonna a mount too much and and be successful. Um. 177 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:01,240 Speaker 1: So it comes out to then the work that we 178 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:03,880 Speaker 1: do is I guess in turn of weeks and sociology 179 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:06,080 Speaker 1: like the labeling theory. So if you call these children, 180 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 1: you know, criminals, you say they're going to amount to 181 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:10,200 Speaker 1: only to what their parents have done and so far 182 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:13,120 Speaker 1: they're gonna start to internalize that, um, and then it's 183 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:15,559 Speaker 1: just repeat to recycle the cycle then of them you know, 184 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:18,720 Speaker 1: getting wrapped up in another system, and and you know 185 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 1: some of these times they will the likelihood of them 186 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 1: going being incarcerating creas and so and so forth. Would 187 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 1: do our best to try to combat some of that 188 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 1: um as much as possible, the idea of like a 189 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:34,320 Speaker 1: self fulfilling prophecy, right exactly, and will return to the 190 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:38,400 Speaker 1: untold story of incarceration and the children it effects with 191 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:47,599 Speaker 1: Julian Wyatt after a brief word from our sponsor, and 192 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:52,760 Speaker 1: we're back and uh off air. We were somewhat joking 193 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:57,720 Speaker 1: about private prisons, which is real gallows humor, is it 194 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:01,800 Speaker 1: really is? But we brought up a company that was formally, 195 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:05,440 Speaker 1: I guess known as c c a UM the Something 196 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 1: Corrections of America's the Corrections Corporation of a Yeah, so, Julian, 197 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:14,080 Speaker 1: you told us that they recently changed their name. Yes, 198 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:16,600 Speaker 1: I was doing some research on them recently, and they 199 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:20,080 Speaker 1: rebrand themselves as Corse Civic. I'm sure for more civic 200 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:23,840 Speaker 1: Corse Civic, Yeah, okay, I guess a little less um 201 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 1: harsh the core of civil alright. They should have taken 202 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:28,760 Speaker 1: it all the way and become like the Happy Fun 203 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:32,240 Speaker 1: Time Company. That's what they're reason for us things. Yeah, 204 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:34,720 Speaker 1: but they rebranded I'm sure for different reputations and so 205 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:36,920 Speaker 1: what they've been getting over the years. That's such an 206 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:40,760 Speaker 1: innocuous non name. It's like what does that mean? What 207 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 1: does that tell us anything about what you do? Right? 208 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:48,000 Speaker 1: Private housing that's what they call housing. So could you 209 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:51,360 Speaker 1: could you tell us and our audience a little bit 210 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 1: more about what we mean when we say private prisons 211 00:11:56,360 --> 00:12:02,000 Speaker 1: basically just as as a term, kind of explain is there? It's, um, 212 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:05,640 Speaker 1: some of these prisons are run by private organizations and 213 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:08,160 Speaker 1: then they have such a big state at you know, 214 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 1: maintaining or the status called mass incarceration or you know 215 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:15,320 Speaker 1: the prison dustrial complex because it benefits them. I was 216 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 1: going to at some of the c c A information 217 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:21,320 Speaker 1: and they actually negotiate their contracts so that they are 218 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:25,080 Speaker 1: saying that you have to make sure that the incarceration 219 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 1: rate or the capacities at um the number of people 220 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 1: and the number of people. Yet they have a minimum 221 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 1: guarantee correct minimum quotas for sentencing. Then the whole mandatory 222 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:39,840 Speaker 1: minimum sitnencing comes into play as well. So it gets 223 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:41,559 Speaker 1: deep and I have a pretty large stake in percentage 224 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:43,560 Speaker 1: out the amount of prisons that they run in the US. 225 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:45,840 Speaker 1: So it's what some might refer to as the prison 226 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:49,960 Speaker 1: industrial complex because there's money going into the system. There 227 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:53,760 Speaker 1: are people that have things to gain from this monetarily. 228 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:55,559 Speaker 1: I just was going to briefly bring up I once 229 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:59,120 Speaker 1: to the story for public radio about a town where 230 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:01,480 Speaker 1: they had lost their entire industry. It was like a 231 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 1: in the housing boom. I can't remember the name of 232 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 1: the town now, but it was in Georgia, rural part 233 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 1: of Georgia, and they had lost their whole manufacturing was 234 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:11,240 Speaker 1: tied to like textiles or something, and so they wanted 235 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 1: this prison. They wanted it's so bad because it was 236 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:15,720 Speaker 1: gonna give jobs. And I went to like a thing 237 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:18,320 Speaker 1: an event that the c c. A people did, and 238 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 1: it was just like telling them how great it was 239 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 1: gonna be. Everyone was gonna have jobs. And they didn't 240 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 1: end up begetting it, but it was like it was 241 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:27,360 Speaker 1: it was just weird to me that we're like, please 242 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 1: please give us this prison. It's surreal, isn't it. And 243 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:35,880 Speaker 1: this this goes to a systemic issue. You may have 244 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:39,760 Speaker 1: seen in the news number of years ago about certain 245 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:45,199 Speaker 1: judges who got caught sentencing kids wildly out of proportion, 246 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:49,800 Speaker 1: uh off to juvie, to juvenile detention centers because they 247 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:55,280 Speaker 1: were guaranteed a certain payment per head. Luckily, for now 248 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 1: in the US, that is technically illegal. However, it sounds 249 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:02,560 Speaker 1: like what we're exploring when we bring up the prison 250 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:06,880 Speaker 1: industrial complex incarceration in general, is we're bringing up the 251 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:12,520 Speaker 1: idea of tying profit to prison in a way that 252 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:16,240 Speaker 1: again is technically not illegal. I don't want to say 253 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:20,080 Speaker 1: it's legal. It's not illegal. It's kind of tricky. It's like, 254 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:23,800 Speaker 1: don't be evil. That's not the same thing as be good. 255 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:27,760 Speaker 1: And one thing you said just now that really stuck 256 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 1: with me, and we we should examine this a little 257 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 1: further in depth. Julian, you just said that these private 258 00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:42,960 Speaker 1: entities are influencing mandatory sentencing. Is that correct? Yeah, So 259 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:47,480 Speaker 1: there's definitely a relationship between UM corporations and politicians. UM. 260 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:51,480 Speaker 1: This has come up and in the last decade there's 261 00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 1: been like they trying to keep you no hush hush, 262 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 1: but there's individuds who are allobbying to maintain this to 263 00:14:55,880 --> 00:15:01,080 Speaker 1: at his quote, with these minimum UM santences and so forth. Definitely, Man, 264 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 1: I have a question, UM in Atlanta, in particular, we 265 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:09,280 Speaker 1: recently had a change in the mandate of police officers 266 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:13,360 Speaker 1: to not take people to jail for marijuana for certain 267 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 1: amounts of marijuana. It's not so far as to say 268 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:18,120 Speaker 1: marijuana is now legal in Atlanta, but for all intents 269 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:20,600 Speaker 1: and purposes, cops aren't supposed to take you to jail 270 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 1: if you have a joint or a certain amount of 271 00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 1: Well that's a whole thing. But my understanding of it 272 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:30,680 Speaker 1: was it was an effort to prevent some of this 273 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:33,520 Speaker 1: overcrowding and some of these low level offenders that end 274 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:36,040 Speaker 1: up in the system and get completely screwed over for 275 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:38,720 Speaker 1: the rest of their lives. What do you think about that? Yeah, 276 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 1: that goes back to you, Oh my gosh, the warring 277 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 1: drugs and all that exactly from the seventies and moving forward. Um, 278 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 1: but I think they're on both sides of the Alan 279 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 1: how we're seeing a need to this is a problem, 280 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:52,480 Speaker 1: as cars ration is a problem is costing um a 281 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:54,520 Speaker 1: lot of money in regards to the federal budget and 282 00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:58,960 Speaker 1: everything else. Uh So, now I think mandatory prisisons is 283 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:03,200 Speaker 1: um let's define the term real quick, just just just 284 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:05,440 Speaker 1: to catch up with the idea. Of mandatory minimums. So 285 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 1: it basically means that no matter what, if you get 286 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:11,240 Speaker 1: caught with safe for drugs and some majority of individuals 287 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 1: who are incarcerated UM, legislation has passed and policies say 288 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 1: that you have to UM receive a certain amount of 289 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 1: UM prison or or jail time for this offense. Yeah, 290 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 1: and it's usually not small, not small, and it's actually 291 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:28,520 Speaker 1: increased over the decades, and it's the minimal and it's 292 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 1: and it's a there's a meta level to it as well, 293 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 1: because mandatory sentencing might not just kick in for a 294 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 1: possession of X amount of drug y. It also can 295 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 1: kick in if this is your second or third test. 296 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:47,520 Speaker 1: Three strikes. That was the three strikes phone and that 297 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:51,120 Speaker 1: was Clinton. That was the issue was well, I really 298 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:55,200 Speaker 1: appreciate you pointing out that that was under President Clint. 299 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:58,360 Speaker 1: That was that that was Yeah, that's gonna come up 300 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:00,880 Speaker 1: a little later. Actually, Yes, it just goes to show 301 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:04,439 Speaker 1: money isn't partisan, you know, I mean, we we we 302 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:08,080 Speaker 1: can we demonize certain parties and raise up others. When 303 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:11,040 Speaker 1: we look at the numbers, there's stuff happening on both 304 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 1: sides that are feeding the beasts. You know. Definitely money 305 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 1: votes for itself. So what if it's okay, We'd like 306 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:24,520 Speaker 1: to ask you a couple of biographical questions. What what 307 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:29,600 Speaker 1: drew you to this project, this mission, and uh where 308 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:32,840 Speaker 1: would you like to see it go? Great question. Um. 309 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:36,080 Speaker 1: So I'm fortunate enough that neither my mother nor father 310 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:40,600 Speaker 1: were um incarcerated through my childhood. But I can't say 311 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:42,960 Speaker 1: that that narrative host true for some of my close 312 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:45,600 Speaker 1: relatives as well as my childhood friends that I've grown 313 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:49,840 Speaker 1: up with originally from Los Angeles, California. Um So, you know, 314 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:53,160 Speaker 1: and I wouldn't say the Santa Monica's in the hollywoods 315 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:56,280 Speaker 1: whom I like, long beaches in Inglewood and you know 316 00:17:56,359 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 1: comtent so some of these like urban um areas who 317 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:02,520 Speaker 1: are now you're decaying and so forth. Um, it's just 318 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:05,399 Speaker 1: it's something that I've been affected by. Uh. I know 319 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 1: They've been at times when I've seen friends get arrested 320 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:10,960 Speaker 1: and it's been as simple as something that hasn't been 321 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 1: as traumatic. And other times I've seen doors being kicked 322 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:15,480 Speaker 1: down and everything else in between. Um, when I was 323 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:17,880 Speaker 1: a child, I opened up the door and there goes 324 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:20,720 Speaker 1: to the FBI saying they're looking for you know, I 325 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:23,680 Speaker 1: wanted criminals so and as a child, that's siwhat traumatized 326 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:25,640 Speaker 1: and you know what I mean. And even though we're 327 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:27,800 Speaker 1: speaking of like the family as a unit, UM, there 328 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 1: have been times like my mother has had to you 329 00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:32,360 Speaker 1: know how some of my friends or some of my cousins, 330 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:34,919 Speaker 1: because moms and uncles have been involved in the criminal 331 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:40,200 Speaker 1: justice system, are now incarcerated and to avoid them, um, 332 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 1: getting into the common ward of the state and getting 333 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:45,560 Speaker 1: in fomter caring everything else like that, my mother, you know, 334 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:46,959 Speaker 1: stepped into the play and I want to do her 335 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:50,520 Speaker 1: part in ensuring that, you know, um, the children are 336 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:53,399 Speaker 1: still comfortable and moving forward. And she's like that was 337 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:55,480 Speaker 1: her role. So on top of you know, trying to 338 00:18:56,760 --> 00:18:59,000 Speaker 1: use are her resources to help with my relatives out 339 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:01,240 Speaker 1: with court fees and you know, trials and so forth, 340 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:04,000 Speaker 1: attorney fees, she's also not having to take care of 341 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:06,919 Speaker 1: another body and other human and children like to eat, right. 342 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:09,879 Speaker 1: So it's it's, it's, it's it's things like that that 343 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:12,560 Speaker 1: it just hits home, um, and then moving out here. 344 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:14,600 Speaker 1: I got involved with the organization when I was an 345 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:18,199 Speaker 1: intern undergrad UM and just the families and children that 346 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:20,640 Speaker 1: I've you know, came in contact with it just resonated 347 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:22,960 Speaker 1: with me. I look at them like on my own 348 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:26,280 Speaker 1: my family members at this point. So and then progress progressively, 349 00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:29,360 Speaker 1: I just became more involved in the organization. Um, I'm 350 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 1: a member of the Young Professionals Board and I'll be 351 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:33,639 Speaker 1: the president of the Professionals Board for the organization A 352 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:39,880 Speaker 1: July Man. Congratulations And honestly, it's a huge, just tribute 353 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:42,800 Speaker 1: to to the dedication and the love that your family 354 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:45,960 Speaker 1: shares to take on those I mean it, in a way, 355 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:48,280 Speaker 1: it's a burden. It's also a privilege in other ways 356 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:50,840 Speaker 1: to take care of a child in that way. But um, 357 00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 1: that's huge because not every family has that kind of 358 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:58,160 Speaker 1: bond and and that determination. And can you just tell 359 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:00,400 Speaker 1: us a little bit about what happens to let's say 360 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 1: a kid whose mom ends up wrapped up in the 361 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:07,480 Speaker 1: criminal justice system, goes to prison and there's nobody else 362 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:10,560 Speaker 1: to take care of this mother and father potentially, Yeah, 363 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:14,240 Speaker 1: maybe maybe you start with, uh, maybe start with the 364 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 1: day they learned that they're going, Yeah, like, what what 365 00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:21,200 Speaker 1: happens is this? Because not enough emphasis goes on to 366 00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:23,440 Speaker 1: taking the child into consideration at all when it comes 367 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:26,520 Speaker 1: to the sentencing. UM. But from my experience of what 368 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:30,720 Speaker 1: I've seen is luckily UM, it's usually a grandparent who 369 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:32,960 Speaker 1: takes the responsibility of looking out for the child. Some 370 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:35,680 Speaker 1: of the majority of the children who are in programmed 371 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:39,359 Speaker 1: that's the case, UM, which had his own issues to 372 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:42,960 Speaker 1: a certain level. UM. But yeah, once you get wrapped 373 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:46,280 Speaker 1: him into the system, it someone just get lost. And 374 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 1: then you don't have a you can't advocate for yourself, 375 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:51,359 Speaker 1: and you know, then it's a disconnect between you know, 376 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:53,720 Speaker 1: the state wants to keep you away from your child, 377 00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:55,880 Speaker 1: and you're not knowing or having legal knowledge to even 378 00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 1: know what you need, what steps you need to take 379 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:01,520 Speaker 1: to you know, in your relationship attained is maintained with 380 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:05,679 Speaker 1: that child. So it's it's it's it's challenging. So is 381 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:12,480 Speaker 1: there any state level or federal level substantive assistance in 382 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:16,399 Speaker 1: solving this problem? Oh, there possibly could be, but one 383 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:18,000 Speaker 1: that I'm aware of the top of my head, I 384 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:22,680 Speaker 1: couldn't speak going Okay, so there's a grandparent, that's obviously 385 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:25,640 Speaker 1: a best case scenario, but a lot of times there's not. 386 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:28,159 Speaker 1: And then you have kids that get in the foster 387 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:30,879 Speaker 1: care system, UM, for example, And I know that can 388 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:34,119 Speaker 1: end up great for children, That can ultimately be a 389 00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:38,240 Speaker 1: positive situation where they find um, their foster parents, ultimately 390 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:41,239 Speaker 1: adopt them, etcetera. But that is a form of a 391 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 1: child being in a system that they have no control 392 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:47,919 Speaker 1: over and that at times they have no ability to escape. 393 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:50,320 Speaker 1: So can you give us kind of the less rosy 394 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:52,600 Speaker 1: version of that that scenario maybe I don't know, is 395 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:55,000 Speaker 1: whatever you see on the ground from what I see 396 00:21:55,080 --> 00:22:01,720 Speaker 1: on the ground, um, preserving that that immediate family or 397 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 1: that if the extended family tends to have better outcomes 398 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:07,480 Speaker 1: for both the child as well as the parents in 399 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:11,600 Speaker 1: cars very just a level of trust and stability. Um, 400 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:14,119 Speaker 1: we're just having to get you know outside you know, 401 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:17,560 Speaker 1: entities are actors involved in making decisions, and it just 402 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:20,480 Speaker 1: gets a little bit more um complex on top of 403 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:25,879 Speaker 1: already having um um um a parent incarcerated. So we 404 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:30,359 Speaker 1: definitely hear horror stories about the you know, sister situations. 405 00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:33,360 Speaker 1: They can occur within foster care. In the foster care system. 406 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:35,440 Speaker 1: You know, it's not all horror stories, but that's definitely 407 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:38,080 Speaker 1: the ones that rise at the top because their newsworthy 408 00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:40,800 Speaker 1: if it leads Yeah, well, and I know that a 409 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:43,479 Speaker 1: lot of foster parents do it because it's like a 410 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:46,720 Speaker 1: per kid amount of money that you get, and that's, 411 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:49,239 Speaker 1: you know, maybe the negative way you can look at it. 412 00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:54,200 Speaker 1: But also, my my ex wife's sister has foster children 413 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 1: for years and ended up adopting like five of them, 414 00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:00,320 Speaker 1: three of which were siblings, and and they just have 415 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:05,240 Speaker 1: the most lovely, loving, um middle class, affluent family. Then 416 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:07,000 Speaker 1: they take care of those kids like they're their own 417 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:09,200 Speaker 1: because they are. So that's sort of like the best 418 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:11,280 Speaker 1: case scenario. But then you have ones where you hear 419 00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:14,639 Speaker 1: about neglect and malnourishment, you hear about kids dying in 420 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:18,720 Speaker 1: the foster care system from beatings and abuse, and you 421 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 1: don't have to look far to find examples of this 422 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:23,280 Speaker 1: happening in the news, to the point where we're almost 423 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:26,280 Speaker 1: numb to it in a certain way. Very true, and 424 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:31,640 Speaker 1: this brings us to a natural segue something that many 425 00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 1: many of us listening along, uh, we're already thinking of 426 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:39,520 Speaker 1: as soon as we tuned into this episode. It hits 427 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:43,960 Speaker 1: upon something that has made the news in a very 428 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:48,919 Speaker 1: real and the media, and as we record an ongoing way, 429 00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 1: we're going to delve into the story behind the stories 430 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:57,560 Speaker 1: you've read about children being separated from their parents at 431 00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:01,880 Speaker 1: the border of the US. After a word from our sponsor, 432 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:14,480 Speaker 1: and we're back from about what was it, Matt, Yeah, May, 433 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:19,320 Speaker 1: It was like early May up until June actually, the 434 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:23,399 Speaker 1: day we're recording this episode. From about that that time span, 435 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:27,520 Speaker 1: you probably saw it in your media of choice, whether 436 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:31,400 Speaker 1: that's a social platform or a mass market news program, 437 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:37,080 Speaker 1: you probably saw the reports of numerous children traveling with 438 00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:41,960 Speaker 1: their family or in some cases solo uh from a 439 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:45,240 Speaker 1: foreign country to the US and then not only being 440 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:49,080 Speaker 1: detained at the border, but being separated from their parents. 441 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:52,480 Speaker 1: And when we say kids, we're not talking teenagers. We're 442 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:55,639 Speaker 1: talking children. And when we say numerous, we're not talking 443 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:58,120 Speaker 1: about a handful. We're talking about more than two thousand, 444 00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:05,280 Speaker 1: two forty three according to the NPR as of early May. Julian, 445 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:09,760 Speaker 1: you've you've been following this story, would you say that 446 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:15,040 Speaker 1: there is a connection or a confluence between the immigration 447 00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:19,040 Speaker 1: detainment industry and the prison industry. So, yeah, I think 448 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:22,800 Speaker 1: there's definitely, um some parallels between our common justice system 449 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:25,800 Speaker 1: as well as our detention system. Um. I think what 450 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:28,720 Speaker 1: we're speaking on still the mandatories in this thing, and 451 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:34,359 Speaker 1: still the same that goes in with these immigration tention centers. Um. 452 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:37,560 Speaker 1: There's quotas as well. The private prison industry is also 453 00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:41,400 Speaker 1: heavily involved detention system. UM. But I think even still 454 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:46,440 Speaker 1: just having the spotlight on the children, it's these are 455 00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:50,119 Speaker 1: still traumatic and gramatic events that they're just probably going 456 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,280 Speaker 1: to stick with them for um gich in their life. 457 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:55,679 Speaker 1: If they don't, they're not receiving the proper you know, 458 00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:59,720 Speaker 1: services to trying to combat some of these experiences. UM. Definitely, 459 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,320 Speaker 1: you know, it's crazy. I've seen Jeff Sessions, the current 460 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:08,640 Speaker 1: Attorney General of the United States. Yes, well, well, he's 461 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:12,960 Speaker 1: described this practice of separating the children from the other 462 00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:17,639 Speaker 1: family members as a deterrence, as a strategic deterrence to 463 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:21,000 Speaker 1: prevent other people and other families with children from trying 464 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:25,399 Speaker 1: to cross the border into the United States. And UM, 465 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:28,600 Speaker 1: it's based on a law that was passed during the 466 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:33,960 Speaker 1: Clinton administration, and the way it's written is UM, it's 467 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:37,840 Speaker 1: not vague, it's just current that administration as well as 468 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:42,119 Speaker 1: other administrations, had not really pushed it that far, essentially, 469 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:47,560 Speaker 1: like taking it to this level of separating these families forcibly. UM. 470 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:49,439 Speaker 1: But it's something that's been on the books for a while. 471 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:52,400 Speaker 1: So a lot of us have probably seen the videos 472 00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:56,280 Speaker 1: of the situation that these kids find themselves in physically, 473 00:26:56,840 --> 00:27:00,680 Speaker 1: which is in essentially these large cages, is where there 474 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:05,199 Speaker 1: are multiple children. They're not stacked up, but they're just 475 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:08,080 Speaker 1: squished into these cages. And what they've got some like 476 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:11,120 Speaker 1: water it looked like, and maybe a little bit of 477 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:15,439 Speaker 1: food like chips or something, and these thermal blankets that 478 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:19,400 Speaker 1: they're putting on each other. And how does that that 479 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:23,440 Speaker 1: that sounds insane to me? Um has Is that experience 480 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:27,960 Speaker 1: experience mirrored anywhere within the juvenile system at all, or 481 00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:34,000 Speaker 1: is that a completely new thing? I would say the 482 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:38,800 Speaker 1: portrayal of this situation to a certainly, it was intentional, 483 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:42,960 Speaker 1: like you said, going back to serving as a mechanism 484 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:46,080 Speaker 1: for our deterians, for those who are most of them 485 00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:49,600 Speaker 1: are migrating from what Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras. So if 486 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:51,639 Speaker 1: they're seeing this on the media, that they're gonna know 487 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:54,800 Speaker 1: probably hold off from think twice about coming our way. 488 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:58,240 Speaker 1: Um even in the past with an African American males 489 00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:02,240 Speaker 1: being you know, portraying aid as Um, you know, these 490 00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:04,679 Speaker 1: deviant criminals and so forth, and man, you know, the 491 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:07,399 Speaker 1: seventies or civilized area moving forward. It's it's kind of 492 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 1: the same thing that serves deterrence or two, you know, 493 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 1: shift behavior to get a certain outcome um um that 494 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:15,840 Speaker 1: you want, which still goes back to in the whole 495 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:18,800 Speaker 1: element of politics that's brought into this. Yeah, that's the 496 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,160 Speaker 1: thing that bugged me the most. It seems very clear 497 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:23,679 Speaker 1: a lot of passing the buck going on, where it's like, 498 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:26,320 Speaker 1: we're doing this, but it's actually the folks on the 499 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:28,840 Speaker 1: other side's fault, but we're just enforcing the law. Blah 500 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,520 Speaker 1: blah blah. But then you could look at it and say, well, 501 00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:34,200 Speaker 1: it's really just kind of a deterrent. It's like you're 502 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:38,800 Speaker 1: you're you're punishing people for doing something that technically is 503 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 1: legal because a lot of these folks are seeking asylum 504 00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:43,680 Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden their kids are snatched 505 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 1: away because of the zero tolerance policy. So that to 506 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:50,320 Speaker 1: me seems like dirty pool. Yeah, and I'm glad you 507 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:53,840 Speaker 1: brought that up. It is legal to seek asylum. It's 508 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,600 Speaker 1: actually under you and conventions, it's legal to seek asylum 509 00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:02,040 Speaker 1: and entry with any country. It's unfortunately up to that 510 00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:07,200 Speaker 1: country's discretion, and they're very loose with the idea of discretion. Yeah, well, 511 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:09,880 Speaker 1: apparently we're leaving the UN Human Rights Counsel anyway, So 512 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:15,920 Speaker 1: that's that yesterday we just did um wow, yeah great, 513 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:19,560 Speaker 1: So let's let's let's keep this. Let's keep this thread 514 00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:23,560 Speaker 1: though with UM with the immigration policy. Who notice Matt 515 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:28,520 Speaker 1: pointed out from May to June. Peek behind the scenes here, folks, 516 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:33,000 Speaker 1: Julian Matt Nolan, I are recording this on June, and 517 00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:36,640 Speaker 1: as we were going into uh into the studio here, 518 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:42,000 Speaker 1: we learned that the current president, President Trump had actually 519 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:46,520 Speaker 1: signed a document right that is going to end not 520 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:50,400 Speaker 1: the detainment practice, but in the separation practice. Isn't that correct? 521 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:52,800 Speaker 1: That is what I read. Yes, it's a breaking news 522 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,280 Speaker 1: story as we sit here and record this now. But 523 00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:59,960 Speaker 1: UM pressure has apparently gotten to the administration in that respect, 524 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:03,320 Speaker 1: because it's what they call bad optics, right, like, even 525 00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 1: if you're not technically breaking the law, you're enforcing the law. 526 00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:09,120 Speaker 1: It's not a good look, you know at all. I 527 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:13,640 Speaker 1: believe what the president signed is an executive order, correct, 528 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:16,840 Speaker 1: that would be, which is which just means that he 529 00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:19,400 Speaker 1: doesn't have to run it past Congress. He's a he's 530 00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:22,360 Speaker 1: a fan of those. UM got something up on time. 531 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:26,280 Speaker 1: We're literally looking at this on our computers right now. Um, 532 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:29,560 Speaker 1: it's just talking about Yeah, he signed an executive order 533 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:32,480 Speaker 1: that would end the separations, but instead of putting the 534 00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:36,480 Speaker 1: parents and children together in these detention centers like the 535 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:39,280 Speaker 1: Steward Have you ever been the Stewart Detention Center. It's 536 00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:41,760 Speaker 1: the one here in Georgia, right. Yeah. I have some 537 00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:45,960 Speaker 1: friends who have gone and visited there, did somewhere, but 538 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,760 Speaker 1: I personally have him who it's it's massive. My sister 539 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:51,680 Speaker 1: has done work with some organizations there too, and it's 540 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:57,680 Speaker 1: just these huge centers where they're in that in that location, 541 00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:00,520 Speaker 1: there are families together, some of them, sometimes they're separated, 542 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:03,920 Speaker 1: and it's just man, it is a tough situation for 543 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:06,760 Speaker 1: anyone to find themselves in, and especially for a child. 544 00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:10,000 Speaker 1: And I can't get over this. You guys like Nolan, 545 00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:12,400 Speaker 1: I have kids, Um, why do you have kids yet? No? 546 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:15,960 Speaker 1: Yeah you youn Ben. One day, don't worry. You guys 547 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:22,120 Speaker 1: are gonna have powerful, amazing kids. Yeah over there. But 548 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:26,200 Speaker 1: it's just the thought knoll of someone taking your child 549 00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:29,720 Speaker 1: away and putting him in a cold, dark just like 550 00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:34,000 Speaker 1: place like that, without without any chance to either go 551 00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:36,440 Speaker 1: to your you know, your parents or your grandparents who 552 00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:39,120 Speaker 1: are some other family member, or just being sent back 553 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:42,360 Speaker 1: even you know, just like just leave and go somewhere else. 554 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:44,440 Speaker 1: It makes your blood boil. And I think that's what 555 00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:47,120 Speaker 1: happened to a lot of people in this country and 556 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:49,479 Speaker 1: around the world as we're reading this stuff. Well, and 557 00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:51,560 Speaker 1: given like how difficult it is to even get a 558 00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:56,080 Speaker 1: phone call if you go to jail, right, I'm only 559 00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:59,080 Speaker 1: conjecturing here, but I imagine that there's not ready lines 560 00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:02,960 Speaker 1: of communication between mom and dad and and and find 561 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:06,200 Speaker 1: son and daughter, you know. And there's one other important 562 00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:09,080 Speaker 1: point here that we have to emphasize of the many 563 00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:13,960 Speaker 1: important points, which is that for people who feel that 564 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:19,080 Speaker 1: a detainment policy is just for people who feel like, well, 565 00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:21,400 Speaker 1: you know, it's against the law, don't try to across 566 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:24,640 Speaker 1: the border. Um. And even if you plead asylum, it 567 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,600 Speaker 1: is up to that country's discretion for how long they 568 00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:30,200 Speaker 1: detain you and whether or not they grant you entry 569 00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:33,160 Speaker 1: or they kick you back with a go with God. 570 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:39,040 Speaker 1: The regardless of how you feel about that, the children 571 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:44,880 Speaker 1: involved do not have agency, and in institutions and communities 572 00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:49,000 Speaker 1: across the country, these kids are not making the choices, 573 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:54,720 Speaker 1: they are only suffering the consequences. Yeah, and this, this 574 00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:58,680 Speaker 1: brings us to this brings us to a question about 575 00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,280 Speaker 1: the future, which I know so times people hate because 576 00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:06,000 Speaker 1: no one can predict it. But Julian having lived in 577 00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:08,480 Speaker 1: this world and spend so much time working toward a 578 00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:12,320 Speaker 1: better future for these parents, these children, and ultimately I 579 00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:16,600 Speaker 1: would argue our country as a whole of what what 580 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:22,840 Speaker 1: recommendations could you make? What would you like to see change? Um? 581 00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:26,120 Speaker 1: Great question, Uh, definitely. I think some of the most 582 00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:28,920 Speaker 1: common and we're getting some traction here is some of 583 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:32,320 Speaker 1: the reversing of some of the policies that were enacted 584 00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:35,560 Speaker 1: um were the last few decades, with things such as 585 00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:40,720 Speaker 1: three strikes um UM or mendatory minimum UM. But also 586 00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:45,000 Speaker 1: I think we need to um put a big emphasis 587 00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:48,600 Speaker 1: on more of a community supervision. So and I think 588 00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:50,640 Speaker 1: a lot of people think that if we you know, 589 00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:54,880 Speaker 1: in mass incarceration and there's less inmates, then it may 590 00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:59,000 Speaker 1: necessarily be cheaper on taxpayers down the road. I think 591 00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:01,560 Speaker 1: that may be the case, but it immediately I think 592 00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:04,680 Speaker 1: the resources just need to be shipped and allocated towards um, 593 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:07,720 Speaker 1: you know, social services and community based organizations to provide 594 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:12,319 Speaker 1: you know, psycho social support, UM education, vocational training, UM 595 00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:15,319 Speaker 1: support for housing, which you give these individuals some type 596 00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:18,760 Speaker 1: of support system UM that they can you know, build 597 00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:21,719 Speaker 1: build on UM. And then on another end, I think 598 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:25,960 Speaker 1: that I recommend that you know, different policies or or 599 00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:28,480 Speaker 1: mechanism be put in place that those who are doing 600 00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:32,920 Speaker 1: the sentencing or are prosecuting UM do a holistic or 601 00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:35,600 Speaker 1: a deeper in depth assessment on the children who are 602 00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:38,040 Speaker 1: going to be impacted as well, uh, look at things 603 00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:39,279 Speaker 1: such as what are they're going to be their need, 604 00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:42,640 Speaker 1: do they have caregivers whooping you know, UM souop in 605 00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:46,319 Speaker 1: and take care of them UM during sentencing and so forth, 606 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:49,359 Speaker 1: which I don't think is done as adequately or as 607 00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:53,600 Speaker 1: efficiently as needs to be. And I think I think 608 00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:56,560 Speaker 1: also on the back end of this, which doesn't get 609 00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:59,000 Speaker 1: talked about, it was also that of the caregivers. So 610 00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:01,880 Speaker 1: UM it's uh, you know, we talked about like a 611 00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:05,000 Speaker 1: financial burden. Many of these caregivers are you know, senior 612 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:08,759 Speaker 1: citizens fifty six years old, low incomes, so they're more 613 00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:11,440 Speaker 1: than likely retired and receiving some type of government assistance. 614 00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:13,319 Speaker 1: And now they're having to take care of someone else. 615 00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:15,560 Speaker 1: I would like to see you know, more support given 616 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:18,960 Speaker 1: to them. May be subsidizing, you know, some type of um, 617 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:21,960 Speaker 1: you know, monetary payment for the time being. UM. But 618 00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:24,880 Speaker 1: there's just I mean, there's a lot of different alternatives 619 00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:27,160 Speaker 1: that can be you know, put in place or implemented 620 00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:29,440 Speaker 1: to kind of you know, shift some of them. This 621 00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:32,480 Speaker 1: climate that we have right now, it does become a 622 00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:34,520 Speaker 1: form of foster care in a way when you're like 623 00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:38,480 Speaker 1: a grandmother taking care of your granddaughter, a grands one. Yeah, 624 00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:41,160 Speaker 1: that's that's an interesting point. I'd like to see that. 625 00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:45,800 Speaker 1: So let's say you're you're someone's listening to this and 626 00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:48,120 Speaker 1: they want to help out. Is there a place online 627 00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:50,160 Speaker 1: they can go to learn more or a number they 628 00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:53,000 Speaker 1: can call or what can what can they do to 629 00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:56,920 Speaker 1: help with this struggle? Uh? Definitely for a resource to 630 00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:59,640 Speaker 1: go to is our website for every family, Uh that 631 00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:04,239 Speaker 1: or that's Forever Fams Forever fo R e V E 632 00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:08,560 Speaker 1: R FAM f A m dot org and UM you 633 00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:10,440 Speaker 1: get you know, there's information you can reach out to 634 00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:12,719 Speaker 1: if you know someone who may be need assistance with 635 00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:16,440 Speaker 1: you know, navigating through our creational um or com justice 636 00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:21,399 Speaker 1: system children who might be impacted. UM, educators, if it's 637 00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:24,760 Speaker 1: just anything for any other speaking engagements or any recommendations, 638 00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:26,719 Speaker 1: please feel free to reach out to us. But there's 639 00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:29,000 Speaker 1: plenty of resources here. Um. You go to we have 640 00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:32,719 Speaker 1: the dome here, go to our some of our state 641 00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:35,680 Speaker 1: departments and so forth, and you know, is it possible 642 00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:39,200 Speaker 1: to volunteer and just like go up and help out. Definitely. 643 00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:42,600 Speaker 1: We have events going on pretty much year round, things 644 00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:46,000 Speaker 1: simple as like back to school programs or events where 645 00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:48,960 Speaker 1: we're giving out backpacks and you know, just stuff like that, 646 00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:51,360 Speaker 1: little dinners we host. Um, we have a five k 647 00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:54,160 Speaker 1: walk that's coming up in August. Um that's actually gonna 648 00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:58,760 Speaker 1: be right across the street. So there's always always ways. 649 00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:03,799 Speaker 1: Now we have to go not gonna windows now. And 650 00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:05,680 Speaker 1: I just wanted to mention real quick. Um, I I 651 00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:09,800 Speaker 1: couldn't help, but notice a Facebook fundraising effort UM that 652 00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:13,000 Speaker 1: popped up on my feed yesterday called Reunited Immigrant Parents 653 00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:15,759 Speaker 1: with their Child And I couldn't help but notice that 654 00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:19,839 Speaker 1: he had raised almost thirteen million dollars. It's for an 655 00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:23,720 Speaker 1: organization called RACES, which stands for the Refugee and Immigrant 656 00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:27,120 Speaker 1: Center for Education and Legal Services, which is a nonprofit 657 00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:31,560 Speaker 1: based out of San Antonio, Texas. UM so that is 658 00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:34,799 Speaker 1: a very interesting ongoing cause that would be worth checking 659 00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:36,920 Speaker 1: into as well. And just to show you how quickly 660 00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:39,960 Speaker 1: all this is moving, when Paul showed me that Facebook 661 00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:42,880 Speaker 1: post this morning, they had raised nine million dollars lots insane. 662 00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:44,600 Speaker 1: I think when I donated to it, they had raised 663 00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:47,440 Speaker 1: like eight or something. And their goal is fifteen million, 664 00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:50,120 Speaker 1: which is insane. It just goes to show. And then 665 00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:53,480 Speaker 1: you know, with the reversal of the administration, obviously the 666 00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:57,080 Speaker 1: optics of these things really does matter. So this notion 667 00:37:57,160 --> 00:37:59,600 Speaker 1: of well, nothing I can do about it, that's not 668 00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:02,480 Speaker 1: that's always true. That's true, that's false. So how do 669 00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:04,960 Speaker 1: you raise money for all of these kids whose parents 670 00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:09,319 Speaker 1: are in prison domestically? Well, the thing is that you 671 00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:12,480 Speaker 1: can make an argument that one of us alone may 672 00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:14,759 Speaker 1: not swing the needle too much one way or the other. 673 00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:17,560 Speaker 1: But it's like that old proverb. If you want to 674 00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:20,479 Speaker 1: travel fast, travel alone. If you want to travel far, 675 00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:23,360 Speaker 1: travel with people, right, And so the fact of the 676 00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:26,280 Speaker 1: matter is sometimes this gets cast off as being cliche 677 00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:30,040 Speaker 1: or whatever, but together we can make some sort of 678 00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:35,080 Speaker 1: positive difference that is not politically aligned, you know, I do. 679 00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:39,920 Speaker 1: I think it's safe to say in it's not controversial 680 00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:43,400 Speaker 1: to help children. I believe you're right, call it a 681 00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:46,960 Speaker 1: hot take if we must. But h And obviously this 682 00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:49,600 Speaker 1: immigration thing is a politically divisive issue, and we're not 683 00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:52,319 Speaker 1: here to to preach politics to anybody. It's more just 684 00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:56,840 Speaker 1: about human rights, general goodness, and the idea that kids 685 00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:59,920 Speaker 1: deserve a fair shake, no matter where they come from 686 00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:02,279 Speaker 1: or what their background is. Absolutely, the press is a 687 00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:05,319 Speaker 1: powerful tool, and one thing that's important that I think 688 00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:08,400 Speaker 1: a lot of mass media producers don't want us to 689 00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:11,640 Speaker 1: know is that you are part of the press. It 690 00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:14,799 Speaker 1: is a two way street. The people who speak to 691 00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:18,600 Speaker 1: you can also hear you. So don't be afraid. Don't 692 00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:20,760 Speaker 1: be afraid to I know, I know it's a hassle. 693 00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:23,959 Speaker 1: Nobody writes letters anymore, but that's why they matter more. Now. 694 00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:26,440 Speaker 1: It's a really good point back, It really is a 695 00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:28,560 Speaker 1: good point. I'm going back to the thing that we've 696 00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:31,000 Speaker 1: discussed a couple of times on this show, and it 697 00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:35,160 Speaker 1: is my personal belief that the current administration is in 698 00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:38,640 Speaker 1: some way like a sleeper agent, where they're going in 699 00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:42,239 Speaker 1: and doing the worst possible things, taking things to an 700 00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:45,440 Speaker 1: nth degree so that we can all see it first 701 00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:47,839 Speaker 1: like for the like, truly see it, and then I'll 702 00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:55,759 Speaker 1: go no society, that is a really um odd if 703 00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:59,960 Speaker 1: optimistic I mean, and I hope that that's the case. 704 00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:03,440 Speaker 1: We hope. So, Julian, thank you so much for taking 705 00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:06,960 Speaker 1: the time to come on the show today. We want 706 00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:11,680 Speaker 1: to leave the last word to you is if if 707 00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:15,839 Speaker 1: you could say anything about the consequences for children who 708 00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:18,520 Speaker 1: are innocent bystandards in the justice system, if you could 709 00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:22,200 Speaker 1: say anything about it to whomever is listening to this 710 00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:25,680 Speaker 1: now or in the future, what would that be, Um, 711 00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:28,279 Speaker 1: they have to be would be part of the this 712 00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:31,919 Speaker 1: um the I guess the dominant narrative when it comes 713 00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:34,440 Speaker 1: to our communal justice system or not right now, I 714 00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:36,880 Speaker 1: fight they're left out of so much UM, but are 715 00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:41,840 Speaker 1: affected tremendously, UM buy some of these decisions just moving forward. 716 00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:44,880 Speaker 1: Just want to bring a sense of awareness, UM and 717 00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:47,160 Speaker 1: just kind of raise the consciousness of individuals and know 718 00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:49,640 Speaker 1: that this is actually, you know, going on and moving forward, 719 00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:52,920 Speaker 1: just to just be aware of that. Okay. You can 720 00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:56,040 Speaker 1: find us on Facebook and Twitter where we're conspiracy stuff 721 00:40:56,640 --> 00:40:59,800 Speaker 1: and conspiracy stuff showing Instagram you can reach us for 722 00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:04,440 Speaker 1: a telephone one eight three three st d w y 723 00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:08,480 Speaker 1: t k oh. Yeah, it's it's fun to say, it's 724 00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:11,720 Speaker 1: even more fun to dial, So go ahead and do that. Um, 725 00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:14,880 Speaker 1: but you need to use numbers probably, Okay, So you 726 00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:17,959 Speaker 1: can do all of those things. You can find stuff 727 00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:20,440 Speaker 1: they don't want you to know dot com. That's our website. 728 00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:22,680 Speaker 1: You can find every podcast we've ever put out there, 729 00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,120 Speaker 1: or hey, we're on Apple Podcasts where you could leave 730 00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:28,239 Speaker 1: us a review, which would be cool, super cool. We 731 00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:30,960 Speaker 1: can find every video that we have ever done, several 732 00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:34,960 Speaker 1: of which touch on C c A, the private prison industry, 733 00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:41,359 Speaker 1: shudder to think. Um. Yeah, And if you don't want 734 00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:42,879 Speaker 1: to do any of that stuff, you can always send 735 00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:45,640 Speaker 1: us a good old fashioned email. Our best ideas come 736 00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:49,960 Speaker 1: from you. Our email is conspiracy at how Stuff Works 737 00:41:50,000 --> 00:42:09,480 Speaker 1: dot com