1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:03,360 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Tutor Dixon Podcast. We have a treat 2 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:07,200 Speaker 1: for you today. I feel like we are getting towards spring, 3 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:09,879 Speaker 1: and in Michigan, when we get towards spring, we have 4 00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:13,360 Speaker 1: like three or four or five springs before spring actually comes. 5 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:16,960 Speaker 1: But there is also the hope that Jesus is coming 6 00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:19,439 Speaker 1: and that we will see him again, and that hope 7 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 1: of Easter and that feeling of just life coming back. 8 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 1: And that is something that I get to share with 9 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 1: you today through the eyes of two beautiful authors, someone 10 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:35,600 Speaker 1: that you probably know from TV, but also a beautiful author, 11 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 1: Kathy Lee Gifford and doctor Brian Litfin. They are joining 12 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 1: me today because they have a new book out and 13 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:47,959 Speaker 1: it is a fabulous way to read about these stories. 14 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 1: And it's a story of Nero and Paul and at 15 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:53,360 Speaker 1: the end how they kind of intersect. It's called Nero 16 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:56,320 Speaker 1: and Paul, How the Gospel of Grace defeated the Ruler 17 00:00:56,360 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 1: of Rome. Thank you too for joining me today. 18 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:02,920 Speaker 2: To meet you. Finally. We have so many musical friends 19 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 2: and so glad to reconnect with that guy. We spent 20 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 2: a lot of time writing. 21 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:09,679 Speaker 1: These books to get good to see you, which if 22 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 1: you read the book, you can tell that you do 23 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:13,959 Speaker 1: spend a lot of time because it's almost like a 24 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: book and then a podcast, a written podcast in the book, 25 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:19,760 Speaker 1: because we get to see how you two interact, and 26 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:23,080 Speaker 1: it's funny. I found myself laughing out loud, especially when 27 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 1: you talked about Paul having the unibrow and you. 28 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:28,120 Speaker 2: And Kathy Lee. He's like, I like to think of 29 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:31,920 Speaker 2: myself as better looking. Oh, yes, well, what I say, 30 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:36,319 Speaker 2: what about that is that he was no oil painting. 31 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 1: Yes, but but I mean, you really take us inside 32 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 1: of these two stories, and right at this moment, I 33 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 1: feel like it's a it's a very interesting moment on 34 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 1: the world stage to hear about these two stories because 35 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:55,480 Speaker 1: as we're watching what's happening in the Middle East and 36 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 1: we're watching the dictator in Iran, and you hear about 37 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 1: near and kind of his life taking this crazy turn 38 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:06,120 Speaker 1: killing his mother. I mean, you start at a point 39 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:10,359 Speaker 1: where it is you see him whether deciding whether or 40 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 1: not to take the the when you see Nero in 41 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 1: the in the book, at first, you see him deciding 42 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:19,359 Speaker 1: whether to take the sheet off of his mother's dead body. 43 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:23,480 Speaker 2: It's pretty provoking. Well, especially if you realize as you 44 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 2: go further into our story that it's not as if 45 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:27,360 Speaker 2: he hasn't seen her naked. He was also having an 46 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:30,079 Speaker 2: affair at one point with his mother, right, Brian. 47 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:31,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean that's in the sources for sure. 48 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:34,640 Speaker 2: He didn't. He didn't miss much, if you know what 49 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 2: I'm saying, because it's so funny because they were the 50 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:44,359 Speaker 2: trajectories were very very similar. I mean, Nero, Guy Grippina. 51 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:47,040 Speaker 2: You can say you're the You're the one knows all 52 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:49,959 Speaker 2: the details about this. But his mother was the one 53 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:53,240 Speaker 2: that orchestrated the fact that he would be uh Caesar 54 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:58,120 Speaker 2: and all of her backstage shenanigans are unbelievable, aren't they? Brian? 55 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 2: And but but but he wanted to build a Roman empire, 56 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 2: an earthly of ego and excess and beast the old stuff, 57 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:13,920 Speaker 2: just nastiness. But Saul before he was Paul wanted his 58 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:16,640 Speaker 2: kind of fame and fortune too, because he wanted to 59 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:18,959 Speaker 2: be in the Sanhedrin. He had a zeal for God. 60 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 2: He was extremely proud of, but it was it was 61 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 2: not the God that he expected to meet on the 62 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:28,639 Speaker 2: road to domesticus. Is that a good way to say it? 63 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:29,080 Speaker 3: Like it? 64 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:30,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a PhD. 65 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:33,240 Speaker 3: That's good. Yeah, but you know what you're talking about, 66 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 3: Kathy Roberts University. 67 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 1: Okay, but I think in this this is a moment 68 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 1: in time where I love the way the story is 69 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 1: presented because of exactly what you just said, Because and 70 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 1: it's a reminder to us. I mean, the Bible is alive, 71 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 1: the Bible, and these stories are living for a reason. 72 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 1: We remember them because they impact us today. And as 73 00:03:56,560 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 1: you kind of unpack the story of all becoming Paul 74 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 1: and then his life being totally dedicated to Jesus and 75 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 1: to getting people to follow Jesus and saving their lives, 76 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 1: you see Nero, on the other hand, that becomes completely 77 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 1: obsessed with self. 78 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:18,159 Speaker 2: And that's true today. 79 00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:21,839 Speaker 1: We have to constantly push ourselves back toward Jesus because 80 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:24,120 Speaker 1: we live in a world right now where it's very 81 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 1: easy to get consumed with self, the me world. 82 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 3: I'm glad you're saying that too, Tutor, because it's easy, 83 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 3: especially like you said, in today's world, to think, well, 84 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 3: this is about you know, the book is about you know, 85 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:39,679 Speaker 3: tyrants and political leaders, but we all have a tyrant 86 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 3: within us. Like it's easy to put, you know, Miro 87 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 3: into the category of someone it's like in Iran or something. 88 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 3: But we all have that ability, and so we actually 89 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 3: we all need this story, we all need the gospel. 90 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:52,160 Speaker 2: There is this time. 91 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 1: We're in a moment in time where there's a lot 92 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 1: of entitlement, and honestly, I didn't This book resonates with 93 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 1: me more having run for office and understanding what happens 94 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 1: behind the scenes. And I think a lot of my 95 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:09,479 Speaker 1: listeners are also very politically in tune, and they are 96 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:13,840 Speaker 1: watching what's happening just with all of the chess moves 97 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 1: within your own party and the other party. 98 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:17,120 Speaker 2: You see it constantly. 99 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 1: And I'll pick on some of the people who are 100 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 1: out there and they're on the world stage and they've 101 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:26,239 Speaker 1: said one thing the whole time they're in the United States, 102 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 1: but then they go on the world stage and they 103 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:31,080 Speaker 1: say something different, because they're almost like chameleons. And you 104 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 1: can see that in what Nero is trying to do. 105 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:37,600 Speaker 1: He's trying to constantly find the next thing that's going 106 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:39,839 Speaker 1: to make him happy and lift him up, and he's 107 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 1: eliminating all of the evidence of the past. But you 108 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:46,479 Speaker 1: can see that it lives within him that to me 109 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:50,440 Speaker 1: was the most powerful thing is the internal struggle Nero 110 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 1: goes through. Even though he is very evil, it's still 111 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 1: consuming him. 112 00:05:57,040 --> 00:06:00,599 Speaker 2: It didn't start out evil. No baby starts out evil. 113 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 2: I don't believe that it comes straight from the creator. 114 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 2: And it's what the world does, and which tentacles get 115 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:09,920 Speaker 2: around you? And who do you listen to? Some friend 116 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:12,840 Speaker 2: of mine today said, you know, what you worship is 117 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:16,480 Speaker 2: who you are, you know, And this man was worshiping 118 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:20,280 Speaker 2: his his ego, and he thought he was a great performer. 119 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 2: I love the stories we tell about him trying to, 120 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 2: you know, make people listen to him sing forever and ever. 121 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:32,360 Speaker 2: I've been accused of that. Theaters to himself. You could 122 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 2: talk about what he did, Brian, I mean he was ego. 123 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:37,120 Speaker 2: I mean the stuff he built is different from the 124 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:39,359 Speaker 2: stuff that Herod built in our first book together. 125 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:42,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, well that's right. I mean they're both making 126 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:45,920 Speaker 3: impact on their world, but maybe in different ways, different arenas. 127 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:49,360 Speaker 3: I mean Nero much more in Rome. But the ego. 128 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 3: Both Herod and Nero both are marked by ego. But again, 129 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 3: aren't we all. You know, it's easy to put that 130 00:06:56,960 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 3: off onto sort of other people, but we all need 131 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 3: this message of redemption and hope and how to overcome 132 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:05,600 Speaker 3: self and overcome evil with the message of Yashua. 133 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 1: Well, and you're constantly kind of in between the two 134 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 1: because Saul was that also. I mean, Saul was brutal 135 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:20,480 Speaker 1: and and kind of enjoyed the brutality that he inflicted. 136 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:22,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, but he did it. 137 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 3: You know, I think he thought he did think he 138 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:27,960 Speaker 3: had zeal for God, so he thought he was doing 139 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:31,520 Speaker 3: God's will. But you know what does too, right, He's 140 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 3: just doing a different God's will, you know, And so 141 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 3: that reminds us that there's always as you were talking 142 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 3: about politics before, Tutor, but there's always this, there's always 143 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:41,680 Speaker 3: evil spirits. And I don't know what everybody's different beliefs are. 144 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:43,840 Speaker 3: I know what mine are, what Kathy's are, but but 145 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 3: there's always evil spirits that are lurking around the world 146 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 3: of power. They're drawn to power. In fact, the Bible 147 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 3: calls them the powers, and so you know that's something 148 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:54,680 Speaker 3: to keep aware of and remember who is the victor, 149 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 3: who is the ultimate power? 150 00:07:57,160 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, you said, we don't fight against flesh and blood, 151 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 2: but powers and principalities unseen. And because we can't see 152 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 2: it physically, you know, we tend to think that, well, 153 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 2: that's sort of made up stuff. No, I've seen demons. 154 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 2: I've heard demons. I've encountered them, and more times than 155 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:16,720 Speaker 2: I like to. It's not a pleasant experience, but it 156 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 2: certainly made me realize, No, this is real. And a 157 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 2: friend of mine told me the other day, find theologian. 158 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 2: He said, you know, we're supposed to pray in the 159 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 2: name of Jesus and the demons have to flee. Well, 160 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 2: he said, yes, and you know what, they really hate 161 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 2: to hear caath and I go what. He goes, flee 162 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:37,440 Speaker 2: in the name of Jesus, who came in the flesh, 163 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 2: And they go berserk over that because they know it's 164 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:43,560 Speaker 2: true and they can't they have to flee, they can't 165 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 2: stand before it. So we were aware of all of that. 166 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:49,720 Speaker 2: We had things that came along as we were trying 167 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 2: to make these books that made things far more difficult. 168 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 2: We just we just are praying people though we know, 169 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 2: we know what this is. This is spiritual warfare. Let's 170 00:08:57,240 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 2: get at it, you know. And then we didn't happen 171 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:03,720 Speaker 2: to It happens to everyone. It's just we're aware of 172 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:06,320 Speaker 2: it because we are people who study the Word of 173 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:11,079 Speaker 2: God in its original form, and that's the Hebrew and 174 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 2: I hate to call it the Old Testament and the 175 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:17,120 Speaker 2: Greek and the New It's one story. We should have 176 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 2: never broken it up. There's four hundred years between the 177 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:23,680 Speaker 2: end of the New Old One and beginning of Matthew. 178 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:26,280 Speaker 2: But there was four hundred years of the Jewish people 179 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 2: were you know, it's enslaved in Egypt. We didn't stop 180 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:32,000 Speaker 2: telling the story. Sure, you know, I don't know why. 181 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 2: That's for another time. But we like to think of 182 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 2: it as one unbelievable history lesson and I was told 183 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:43,440 Speaker 2: years ago, and I left in one of my rabbinical 184 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:46,320 Speaker 2: trips when you go to Rock Road and Rabbi Rock 185 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 2: as Jesus rose the Holy Land, and the rabbi is 186 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:52,079 Speaker 2: rabbinical teaching. They were telling me that, you know, when 187 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 2: Abraham and Sarah were called of God to leave their home, 188 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:59,440 Speaker 2: which was modern day it would be modern day Iraq. 189 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 2: Everybody that's that kills me. Now to do who? We 190 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:04,760 Speaker 2: don't know that It doesn't say so, it says from 191 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:10,320 Speaker 2: the land of Er right Brian. Yes, And but the 192 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 2: interesting is that they changed their names later. God changed 193 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 2: their names. Why because he added the letter H and 194 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:21,400 Speaker 2: that means the breath of God. He breathed his breath 195 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:24,720 Speaker 2: into them, and they became new creatures, Abraham and Sarah 196 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:27,880 Speaker 2: as we tend to know them. That when you study 197 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 2: the way, Ryan's true, true genius at all of it. 198 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 2: I'm just a student, but I soak this stuff up 199 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 2: because it makes the Bible, which is really literally written 200 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:41,840 Speaker 2: in black and white. To me, the stories are too epic. 201 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 2: I mean, you're never going to learn in the Bible 202 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:46,840 Speaker 2: about Nero. The way you're going to learn about Nero 203 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 2: from our book is that's there's no time and there's 204 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:52,720 Speaker 2: no you know, no space for me. When my space 205 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:57,800 Speaker 2: started getting very very lukewarm, I started studying in Israel 206 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 2: with with what basically messianic who know every ten layers 207 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:06,680 Speaker 2: down deep into into the Word of God and the 208 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:09,600 Speaker 2: black and white Bible that I had been studying for years. 209 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:12,439 Speaker 2: In fact, I read the Bible from cover to cover 210 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 2: eleven times in eleven years and got so bored out 211 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 2: of my gourd, and I said, there's stuff in here 212 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 2: it's not true. I don't I can't read it anymore. 213 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:23,400 Speaker 2: It's not a lot of it is not true. And 214 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:25,720 Speaker 2: I realized it was because it was. It was a 215 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:28,840 Speaker 2: bad translation. It was a bad translation of what the 216 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:32,280 Speaker 2: word really really said. And once I started learning that, 217 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:34,960 Speaker 2: And that doesn't mean I can speak Greek or speak Hebrew, 218 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:38,600 Speaker 2: I can't, but I we studied the original words. And 219 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:41,920 Speaker 2: then that black and white goes to technicolor and it 220 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:45,080 Speaker 2: goes to Dolby sound and it's it's you're ready to 221 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:47,360 Speaker 2: just dig into it because it's so. 222 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:52,280 Speaker 1: Rich that that is what I found to be the 223 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:54,560 Speaker 1: best part of this. And I know at the beginning 224 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:56,480 Speaker 1: of the book you say, you know, some of this 225 00:11:56,600 --> 00:11:59,320 Speaker 1: is what we imagine the conversations must be like that 226 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 1: we have to kind of kind of infer what they 227 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:06,680 Speaker 1: must have said. But it does take you in to 228 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:10,559 Speaker 1: a life on that is not unlike what we battle 229 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:11,080 Speaker 1: every day. 230 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:12,400 Speaker 2: And I think. 231 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 1: That what you said about Paul Saul becoming Paul was 232 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 1: so important that you said, you know, he was just 233 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:23,560 Speaker 1: doing what he thought a different God wanted him to 234 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:24,920 Speaker 1: do it. 235 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 2: He just didn't know it. You know, he was serving Jehovah, God, 236 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:32,760 Speaker 2: he thought. But so you're right, and yet he was wrong, 237 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:33,439 Speaker 2: you know. 238 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 1: And that's what I think we I think that has 239 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 1: to kind kind of be I mean you can correct 240 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:40,640 Speaker 1: me if you think I'm wrong. But I think that 241 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 1: has to kind of be a constant struggle for us, 242 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:46,440 Speaker 1: because oftentimes I hear people say, well, God told me 243 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 1: to do this, and it was clear as day, And 244 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:50,600 Speaker 1: I think that leaves some of us who don't hear 245 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 1: God that way going, well, God doesn't talk to me, 246 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:56,400 Speaker 1: I must not know what he wants. And this book 247 00:12:56,440 --> 00:13:00,720 Speaker 1: made me realize you're constantly fighting to make sure you're 248 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 1: following what he does want, and you have to be 249 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:09,680 Speaker 1: aware that there is always going to be spirits, bad 250 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:11,960 Speaker 1: spirits that are going to try to get to you 251 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:14,200 Speaker 1: and convince you that you are more important. 252 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 2: I mean, it takes me right back to Eve. It's like, 253 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:18,720 Speaker 2: why shouldn't you know this stuff? 254 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 1: And right now there's so many things in the world 255 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:24,040 Speaker 1: that everybody's going you deserve to know this, And I 256 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:26,840 Speaker 1: keep saying, why I don't know that I am supposed 257 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:27,200 Speaker 1: to know that. 258 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:30,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a fundamental point you're making, actually, because the 259 00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:32,600 Speaker 3: nature of sin, if you think about the temptation of 260 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:38,080 Speaker 3: Adam and Eve, the temptation is not well, you know, pleasure, luxury, sexuality, pride. 261 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 3: I mean, all of those things are related but ultimately 262 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 3: the temptation is knowledge and the forbidden fruit, right, you know, 263 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:46,320 Speaker 3: the apple with a bite taken out of it, which 264 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:50,080 Speaker 3: is the symbol of a major corporation today. And so 265 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:53,480 Speaker 3: you know, that's the ultimate human temptation, and it's what 266 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:55,440 Speaker 3: Satan was tempted by, because he said, I will be 267 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:57,560 Speaker 3: like the most high, I will know the things that 268 00:13:57,600 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 3: I don't I'm not supposed to know. And so a 269 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 3: cour level, the temptation of mankind is to seek after 270 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:07,199 Speaker 3: that kind of arcane or occult knowledge, and it gives power, 271 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:08,840 Speaker 3: and it gives wealth, and it gives riches. So all 272 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 3: of those things are related. So our story is very 273 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:14,320 Speaker 3: much about knowing the truth. You know, Paul did not 274 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:16,679 Speaker 3: know the truth as he was saw at that time 275 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:19,280 Speaker 3: until the truth encountered him and Jesus said, I am 276 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 3: the Way, the Truth and the life. And so Paul 277 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 3: had to meet capital T truth, not an abstraction, but 278 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:28,240 Speaker 3: a person who then changed his orientation. That's everybody's story. 279 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 3: It's time to meet the truth. If you haven't understood 280 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 3: the truth, the capital T truth, who is a person 281 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 3: you don't yet understand the world. 282 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:37,240 Speaker 2: And you can't be set free. 283 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next 284 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:46,160 Speaker 1: on the Tutor Dixon Podcast. What you're saying is kind 285 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:48,400 Speaker 1: of blowing my mind because I think about how many people, 286 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 1: especially children, My kids are at Christian schools, and you 287 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 1: see the battle between the Christian message and the message 288 00:14:56,800 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 1: that's coming through their phones that you talked about, and 289 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:01,760 Speaker 1: you to hear people talk about going down this dark 290 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:05,640 Speaker 1: rabbit hole of information that is it is such a 291 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:09,600 Speaker 1: terrible temptation and the information is not necessarily right, and 292 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:14,480 Speaker 1: too often these exactly these kids are getting pulled and 293 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 1: even adults, I mean, we're getting pulled into this too. 294 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 1: And I tell my girls all the time when the 295 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 1: Bible talks about gossip is so much bigger than you 296 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 1: just gossiping at school. But think about how you gossiping 297 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:31,280 Speaker 1: at school affects the interpersonal relationships of all the girls 298 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:34,280 Speaker 1: that you know, and imagine that on a worldwide scale 299 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:35,480 Speaker 1: through your phone. 300 00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:39,920 Speaker 2: Our words are so powerful. Scripture is very clear about 301 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:42,640 Speaker 2: you know, you have the choice choose life or death 302 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:45,920 Speaker 2: with your with your words, then it says choose life, 303 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:49,480 Speaker 2: you know, And every time I haven't, I've regretted it. 304 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 2: You know, it's easy just to say, oh, just see that. 305 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 2: You know, it's constant, and it's not like you're constantly 306 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:58,360 Speaker 2: monitoring yourself and you think of O, God's not pleased 307 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:01,280 Speaker 2: with me. Now, it's just a tender reminder most of 308 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 2: the time, Kath you know better than that. That's not 309 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:07,120 Speaker 2: what I that saysn't honor me, that's no spirit inside 310 00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 2: of you do that's the Holy Spirit. He doesn't condemn. 311 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:13,560 Speaker 2: Jesus did not come to condemn through the law, but 312 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 2: to fulfill it. And you know, and that's another reason 313 00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 2: why I wish we'd never The problem with so much 314 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:21,200 Speaker 2: of our world is that we think the Old Testament 315 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 2: was about the Jews and the New Testament is for 316 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 2: the Christians. It's all of us. Some of us are 317 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 2: born into it because of my Jewish heritage, others are grafted. 318 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 2: People assume that Jews they what's the word I'm looking for, Brian, 319 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:41,280 Speaker 2: they convert to Christian No, No, Jews don't convert. They've 320 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 2: just received the Messiah they had not understood for all 321 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:50,840 Speaker 2: those years. Gentiles convert. I appreciate what Kathy is saying 322 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:53,440 Speaker 2: too about the unity of the story between the two Testaments, 323 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:56,280 Speaker 2: and it's so true and you know, tudor as you 324 00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 2: think about like our book, and it's landing into the 325 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 2: world in the time when the word Israel or the 326 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 2: Jews or something like that is connected with airplanes and 327 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:06,840 Speaker 2: battles and wars. That's not what our book is about, 328 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:09,159 Speaker 2: other than you know, of course he wrote waged wars. 329 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 2: But our book is about It is about Israel, but 330 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:14,800 Speaker 2: it's about a spiritual concept. It's about the message of Israel, 331 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:16,800 Speaker 2: and as Kathy is saying at the beginning of that 332 00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:19,560 Speaker 2: message in the unfolding of the story chapter by chapter, 333 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 2: culminating with Israel's messiah, Yeshua. And then what our book 334 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:27,040 Speaker 2: is about is how this guy saw who was a rabbi. 335 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:29,480 Speaker 2: It's a Jewish name, and he takes a Greek name 336 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 2: so he can relate to the rest of the world, 337 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:33,760 Speaker 2: or a Roman name, but he takes the message of 338 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:36,359 Speaker 2: Israel to the world. And we begin the book talking 339 00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:38,879 Speaker 2: about the Temple in Jerusalem and how the veil of 340 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:41,440 Speaker 2: that temple was torn, which usually people think, well that means, 341 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:43,320 Speaker 2: you know, you can get into the Holy of Holies. 342 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:46,159 Speaker 2: It's the opposite. It's that the Holy of Holies is 343 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:48,720 Speaker 2: rushing out to come in be inside of you. 344 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:49,359 Speaker 1: Oh wow. 345 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:53,200 Speaker 3: So there's a kind of a bursting forth of the 346 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:56,240 Speaker 3: holy presence of God, the ruach Ha, Kodesh and Hebrew, 347 00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:59,439 Speaker 3: and so that the temple can now be anywhere. And 348 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:01,480 Speaker 3: Paul says, I'm going to take that message on now 349 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 3: that I know the truth. I'm going to go to 350 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:05,359 Speaker 3: the end of the world, and we take him in 351 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:07,879 Speaker 3: the story to the end of what his world was, 352 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:10,800 Speaker 3: which was Spain and so and he fulfilled it. And 353 00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:15,000 Speaker 3: that's the timeless message, is that Israel's messages is the 354 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:17,480 Speaker 3: message of Jesus and it is for the world. 355 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:22,160 Speaker 1: And just the way when Kathy Lee, when you were 356 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:28,000 Speaker 1: talking about this coming out in technicolor and Dolby sound, 357 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:31,960 Speaker 1: just the way you describe that veil. Also, the number 358 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:35,760 Speaker 1: of people that had to weave it, the number I 359 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:38,440 Speaker 1: think they did it every two years, the thickness of it, 360 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 1: how many people had to carry it made it so 361 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:43,879 Speaker 1: different to me, you know, because I think of it 362 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:44,240 Speaker 1: as like. 363 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:47,120 Speaker 2: A little tour thing that floated in the air. At 364 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:47,960 Speaker 2: wasn't whispy. 365 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:51,119 Speaker 3: It was substitute, you know, And therefore when it was 366 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:54,800 Speaker 3: torn into you had a major piece of fabric that 367 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:57,160 Speaker 3: was being ripped not by human hands, but by divine 368 00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:00,280 Speaker 3: hands to give that holiness to the rest of the world. 369 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:03,359 Speaker 2: I'm sorry, Brian, I'm just because I got excited that 370 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:05,480 Speaker 2: just the other day. I love all the things they're 371 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:07,880 Speaker 2: just discovering all the time, all the time to confirm 372 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:11,520 Speaker 2: what we know is truth. And did you guys read 373 00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 2: that They've now scientifically, absolutely proven that in AD thirty 374 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:21,320 Speaker 2: three there was a massive, massive earthquake right there where 375 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:27,000 Speaker 2: Jesus is crucified, right there. That happened, the skies went dark. 376 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:30,840 Speaker 2: They have all kinds of technical ways now to prove 377 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:33,480 Speaker 2: these things. I'm also working and I'll come back and 378 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:36,119 Speaker 2: talk to you when this thing comes out. Working with 379 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:38,560 Speaker 2: a friend on the story of the shroud, the Shroud 380 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:42,960 Speaker 2: of Turin. Well, there's absolutely scientific proof now it was 381 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:45,960 Speaker 2: not the burial cloth of Jesus. It started out that way. 382 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:50,680 Speaker 2: It's the resurrection cloth of Jesus. Because that image could 383 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:55,159 Speaker 2: never have been many without photography and the kind of 384 00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:58,760 Speaker 2: energy that went into producing that image, and the way 385 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:02,280 Speaker 2: God has protected that shroud all these two centuries, oh 386 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:06,439 Speaker 2: to millennia is amazing. So God is just confirming what 387 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:09,640 Speaker 2: those of us who seek have believed, and that's why 388 00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 2: I didn't like what I was reading in the Bible. 389 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:13,920 Speaker 2: I knew, even as a ten year old little girl, 390 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:17,920 Speaker 2: that Jesus didn't curse that tree, the sycamore fig tree. 391 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:20,439 Speaker 2: I said, I know, teacher, but that doesn't I know 392 00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 2: you said it, but I don't think that means that. 393 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:25,960 Speaker 2: What does a ten year old girl kind of understand 394 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:28,879 Speaker 2: that because I said, my Jesus created that tree, he 395 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:32,400 Speaker 2: wouldn't curse something he created. Later, on a rabbinical trip, 396 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:36,880 Speaker 2: I discovered that the sycamore fig tree represented, just as 397 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:39,560 Speaker 2: the olive tree represents the people of the Jewish people, 398 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 2: the sycamore fig tree represented the religious people, and that 399 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:46,600 Speaker 2: was the Pharisees and the Sadducees. And he was cursing 400 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 2: them for not feeding the people that they were supposed 401 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:52,399 Speaker 2: to take care of, and he called them hypocrites, and 402 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:56,280 Speaker 2: he called them, you know, you have your whitewashed tombs, 403 00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:59,000 Speaker 2: but inside your dead man's bones, well the word for 404 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:03,360 Speaker 2: hypocrite Greek. I love this actors. 405 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:06,440 Speaker 3: To stand under a mask. 406 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:10,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's I mean, yes, yes you are. You're pretending 407 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:11,199 Speaker 1: to be someone you're not. 408 00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:14,600 Speaker 3: Well, Kathy, that's a good point. And you know, speaking 409 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:17,600 Speaker 3: of trees being cursed, the scripture says, curse it is 410 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:20,960 Speaker 3: he who hangs on a tree. So when the one 411 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:23,160 Speaker 3: who was cursed in our place is Jesus. And there's 412 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:25,160 Speaker 3: a tree at the beginning in the Garden of Eden, 413 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:27,200 Speaker 3: there's a tree in the end in the Book of Revelation, 414 00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:28,800 Speaker 3: and there's a tree right in the middle, and that 415 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:31,359 Speaker 3: is the one on which our Messiah hung. But he 416 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:34,640 Speaker 3: didn't stay there, as you pointed out, so he took 417 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:36,960 Speaker 3: the curse for us, and we can praise him for that. 418 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:39,600 Speaker 1: How did you come to the point where you said 419 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:42,800 Speaker 1: you wanted to you have another You wrote a book 420 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:46,720 Speaker 1: before this, this was Harrod and Mary was that okay? 421 00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:49,480 Speaker 1: So you have and that leads in to Nero and Paul, 422 00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:53,919 Speaker 1: how did you come to this point, because Kathy, you 423 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:56,920 Speaker 1: were saying that life really changed when you went there. 424 00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:01,480 Speaker 1: Explain that to me, because I want our listeners to 425 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:06,320 Speaker 1: really understand what it is to walk within those footsteps 426 00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 1: of Jesus. 427 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:10,760 Speaker 2: Well, not everybody, especially now. You don't want to go 428 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:12,720 Speaker 2: to the Holy Land right now. Things have got to 429 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:15,000 Speaker 2: calm down, and they will, and there will be another 430 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:17,640 Speaker 2: time where our rock road and Rabbi tours can start 431 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 2: going again. I gave that name to Rabbi Sobles so 432 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:23,600 Speaker 2: he could start the touring business with it. And if 433 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:26,600 Speaker 2: I suggest you go with somebody that actually knows the 434 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:29,560 Speaker 2: scriptures before, a lot of these pastors think they do. 435 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:33,080 Speaker 2: But if your pastor thinks that Jesus was a carpenter, 436 00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:37,280 Speaker 2: you know I have he hasn't read the scriptures we 437 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:39,800 Speaker 2: read in the Greek and the Hebrew. The word for 438 00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:43,360 Speaker 2: what Jesus and Joseph did in the New Testament, which 439 00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:46,199 Speaker 2: I hate to say, but it is in Greek, and 440 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:48,560 Speaker 2: it's the word is techton. And if you look it up, 441 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:51,680 Speaker 2: and anybody can on their ask siri, you know what's 442 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:55,240 Speaker 2: the original Greek? It says architect slash builder. But there 443 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:58,120 Speaker 2: was no buildable wood in first century a D. Back 444 00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:02,119 Speaker 2: then Herod didn't build the temple with wood. He accentuated 445 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:03,960 Speaker 2: it with some wood, but there was no buildable wood. 446 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:07,280 Speaker 2: It all had to come down from the cedars of Lebanon, 447 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:11,080 Speaker 2: you know, along the VMRs, which is you know, the west, 448 00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:15,360 Speaker 2: it's the beautiful, beautiful coast as Israel, and made into 449 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:19,520 Speaker 2: rafts and then taken apart in well, what's modern day 450 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:24,920 Speaker 2: tel Aviv, basically right, Bryan, and then taken overland by 451 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 2: animals and slaves, tons and tons of slaves. I mean, 452 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:31,480 Speaker 2: Herod moved a mountain to be higher than another mountain 453 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:33,040 Speaker 2: just so he could be buried on the mountain that 454 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:36,320 Speaker 2: was higher. These are the kind of egos we deal with. 455 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:39,640 Speaker 2: You don't learn that unless you go to Herodium, which 456 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:44,560 Speaker 2: was his temple in his palace in Bethlehem, and you 457 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:46,879 Speaker 2: learn that stuff when you go there. But you can 458 00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:48,720 Speaker 2: look at my videos with that I did with the 459 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:51,600 Speaker 2: or you can read our books and we'll take you there. 460 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:53,840 Speaker 2: You don't have to get a plane, you don't need 461 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:57,600 Speaker 2: a passport, you know, just just down. In fact, I 462 00:23:57,680 --> 00:23:59,560 Speaker 2: wish a lot of people, and they're doing it more 463 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:02,159 Speaker 2: and more. I did all the and I always do 464 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:03,680 Speaker 2: for all my books, not just the two that I've 465 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:07,000 Speaker 2: written with Brian. But I do the audio versions of 466 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:09,879 Speaker 2: them because I don't want somebody else speaking our words 467 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:13,160 Speaker 2: or my words, you know. And I'm so familiar although 468 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:15,640 Speaker 2: these ones, these two books took me four days each. 469 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:21,000 Speaker 2: There's so yeah, And I want to make sure I'm 470 00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:23,520 Speaker 2: saying the names properly and the place is properly and 471 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:26,160 Speaker 2: all of that. So we really tried to be very 472 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:29,320 Speaker 2: scholarly about this in the places that, as you mentioned, 473 00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:32,920 Speaker 2: we had to use a little imagination. We footnoted. Basically, 474 00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:36,760 Speaker 2: we let them know, you know, we know what. Brian's 475 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 2: the scholar, I am not. But we were really careful 476 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:42,639 Speaker 2: about that because we don't want to be guilty of 477 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:46,560 Speaker 2: telling something that we don't believe is true. And it's 478 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 2: all in the in the in the realm of possibility, 479 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 2: of course. But I know you could probably explain the 480 00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:53,720 Speaker 2: way you dealt with it. 481 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:55,879 Speaker 3: Well, you said it well, you said it well. And 482 00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:57,960 Speaker 3: Kathy keeps calling me a scholar. But then you listen 483 00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:01,200 Speaker 3: to her talk and she knows what she's isn't she 484 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:04,520 Speaker 3: She does, and she's being humble, but she's learned a 485 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:09,560 Speaker 3: lot over the years. Yeah, I think you are. But anyway, 486 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 3: I mean the point is, like she's exactly right. The 487 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:14,440 Speaker 3: readers of this book, you know you might not ever 488 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:15,919 Speaker 3: get a chance. I hope you do get to go 489 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:20,680 Speaker 3: to Israel or in the case of Paul, Greece, which 490 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,240 Speaker 3: is where it culminates. And so if until the day 491 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:25,400 Speaker 3: comes that you can walk in the footsteps of these 492 00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:28,560 Speaker 3: great heroes, our books are meant to be very vivid, 493 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 3: very story like, very cinematic, and you know, we have 494 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,360 Speaker 3: to imagine some things, but we have texts and sources 495 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 3: behind those things. So in the meantime, to our readers, 496 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:40,040 Speaker 3: we invote you to be swept up, not into a 497 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:42,639 Speaker 3: bunch of dry you know, facts and dates or something 498 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:44,720 Speaker 3: like that, but to be swept up into a double 499 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:48,960 Speaker 3: saga where you have this ridiculous antagonist, Nero, and all 500 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:51,880 Speaker 3: the people swirling around him that were like that as well, 501 00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:54,880 Speaker 3: and then you had this protagonist who's flawed and who 502 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,080 Speaker 3: always says, you know, I was a chief of sinners, 503 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:01,119 Speaker 3: and yet he's got this redemptive arc. And of course 504 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:03,920 Speaker 3: at the end the two of them crashed together in this, 505 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:06,800 Speaker 3: you know, the end of their story as Paul finally 506 00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:09,320 Speaker 3: gets to Rome. So it really it really. 507 00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:11,440 Speaker 2: Reads in a story like way. 508 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,400 Speaker 3: We wanted to come across that way, yeah. 509 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:17,280 Speaker 1: And almost a Hollywood like way where you're going this 510 00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:21,360 Speaker 1: story cannot possibly be. But it also makes you realize 511 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:24,080 Speaker 1: this is how Hollywood came to be, was the stories 512 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:28,199 Speaker 1: of the past were so vivid and so unrealistic, and 513 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:31,280 Speaker 1: yet this happened, and it's it's interesting because as you 514 00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:35,680 Speaker 1: read through, there's this desire for Paul to rub off 515 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:39,000 Speaker 1: on your O. You know, there's this human desire to 516 00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 1: go get it, finally get it and and redeem yourself. 517 00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:47,520 Speaker 1: You know, redemption is something that I think is always 518 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:53,000 Speaker 1: lingering in our hearts and the need for redemption. And 519 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:55,880 Speaker 1: I think that's that spirit that's constantly calling us back 520 00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:59,679 Speaker 1: and saying, be wary of the idols, be wary of 521 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:01,639 Speaker 1: the that sinful nature that's. 522 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:03,720 Speaker 2: Pulling you test them. 523 00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:08,960 Speaker 4: Yeah, and yet you know that there are people who 524 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:12,439 Speaker 4: never are you know, Nero never he never turned he 525 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,119 Speaker 4: never was redeemed, he never turned turn good. 526 00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 2: And how do you how. 527 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:21,320 Speaker 1: Do you prepare yourself to stop those people from being 528 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:23,600 Speaker 1: in your life, to stop that influence, which I think 529 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:27,880 Speaker 1: is very easy to have that influence in your life 530 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:30,600 Speaker 1: right now because people can get to you. Evil forces 531 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:33,320 Speaker 1: can get to you so much easier today than any 532 00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:33,920 Speaker 1: other time. 533 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:39,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, but people ask us all and I'm sure you too, Tutor. 534 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:41,919 Speaker 2: You know, do you think there's more evil in the world. 535 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:44,600 Speaker 2: I'm asked that every day, so is Briant. So it 536 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:47,800 Speaker 2: may seem that way because you know, people have phones 537 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:50,760 Speaker 2: and they collect successible you would never see. And then 538 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:54,399 Speaker 2: there's twenty four hour of course channels where you know, 539 00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 2: if you see images you wish you never did and 540 00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:58,480 Speaker 2: you can't get rid of them, you know they're there. 541 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:01,240 Speaker 2: And but I I say, no, it seems like it. 542 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:05,240 Speaker 2: But the truth is, Uh, evils in the story in 543 00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:08,160 Speaker 2: the scripture starts in Genesis, in the in the garden. 544 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:12,800 Speaker 2: And whether you believe that metaphorically or really or literally, Uh, 545 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:15,520 Speaker 2: it doesn't change the story for me. It's it's you know, 546 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:20,280 Speaker 2: it's it's fascinating cinematically, of course, but it's the point 547 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:23,680 Speaker 2: of what I'm trying to make is that even as 548 00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:25,600 Speaker 2: God is walking in the coolness of the evening with 549 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:27,760 Speaker 2: the Adam and Eve, the serpent is in the garden. 550 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:31,440 Speaker 2: So why should we you know? He was always there, 551 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:37,639 Speaker 2: always there, always there. And so but the subtitle of 552 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:41,360 Speaker 2: our book is Living Hope, Ancient evil which has always 553 00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:46,720 Speaker 2: been with us, juxtaposed against living Hope. And if you've 554 00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:50,000 Speaker 2: read our book, Herod and Mary Uh and I hope 555 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:53,240 Speaker 2: you have. If you haven't, you will also find it fascinating. 556 00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:59,280 Speaker 2: It ends with with basically Herod's death, as Mary and 557 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,560 Speaker 2: Uh and the baby Jesus are returning back from from 558 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:05,840 Speaker 2: Egypt because the one who sought to kill them is dead. 559 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:09,880 Speaker 2: And we we we at the end of that that book. 560 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,920 Speaker 2: I was doing the audio version. It took me an 561 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:16,480 Speaker 2: hour to get through it. I would sob every time 562 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:20,240 Speaker 2: we had I had to read the end of the book. 563 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:22,840 Speaker 2: You have to read it, you know. I don't call 564 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:25,200 Speaker 2: in Gwyneth Paltrow to do it, because I can't you 565 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:30,000 Speaker 2: do it. And but even when you listen to the audio, 566 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:33,000 Speaker 2: you hear me just I can't you know what I'm 567 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:34,400 Speaker 2: talking about, Brian. I don't want to give the book 568 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:36,480 Speaker 2: the end of the book away, but we needed a 569 00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:40,520 Speaker 2: way to express why the guy who called himself the 570 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 2: King of the Jews, who wasn't even a Jew, and 571 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:48,120 Speaker 2: Mary who had just given birth to the King of Kings. Yeah, 572 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:51,560 Speaker 2: you know, it's just profoundly moving to me. Even right now, 573 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:54,200 Speaker 2: I'm remembering I had to have my book my hip 574 00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:58,160 Speaker 2: replaced the next day. I just stumbled into that next 575 00:29:58,240 --> 00:29:59,640 Speaker 2: and I'm done. I'm done. 576 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,239 Speaker 3: I'm glad you brought those things up, because, you know, 577 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:04,360 Speaker 3: as we talk about great evil, and we're talking about 578 00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 3: demonic powers and evil spirits and kind of the tyrants 579 00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:10,000 Speaker 3: of the world, whether they're in the first century or today. 580 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:13,800 Speaker 3: It's important to recognize that the story is one of hope. 581 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:16,240 Speaker 3: And you say, well, you know, like a Nero. Like Tutor, 582 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:19,000 Speaker 3: you said, he never converted. That's true. We have no evidence. 583 00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:23,440 Speaker 3: He commits suicide and he's pitiful. But as Paul came 584 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:26,200 Speaker 3: and made his way to Rome, the seeds of the 585 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:29,040 Speaker 3: gospel fell under the soil. That was good. So Paul 586 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:31,920 Speaker 3: getting there. Yeah, Okay, he didn't convert Nero as far 587 00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:35,440 Speaker 3: as we could ever tell, but many others did. In fact, 588 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:37,880 Speaker 3: the scripture says that there are some in the emperor's 589 00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:41,560 Speaker 3: household who are believers, which would be Nero's household. So 590 00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:43,320 Speaker 3: the gospel goes for it, right. 591 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:44,840 Speaker 1: Yes, I found that fascinating. 592 00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:48,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a triumph to it all. And sometimes that 593 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:50,880 Speaker 3: triumph is secret or hidden. But God's up to something, 594 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:53,440 Speaker 3: even in the lives of your listeners. 595 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:56,560 Speaker 1: Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on 596 00:30:56,600 --> 00:31:02,800 Speaker 1: a Tutor Dixon podcast. I think the story of Grace 597 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:06,280 Speaker 1: is so important in this book because that is where 598 00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:08,800 Speaker 1: we get caught up and saying we can never be redeemed, 599 00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:11,160 Speaker 1: we can never be good enough. Is that we can't. 600 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:14,720 Speaker 1: We don't understand grace. We don't understand his love. And 601 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:20,440 Speaker 1: so often when I'm frustrated with myself, I say, what 602 00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:22,920 Speaker 1: would I do if my kids had made a mistake. 603 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:27,040 Speaker 1: They will absolutely hug them and love them, and I 604 00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:30,440 Speaker 1: would just it would not matter. I will always love them. 605 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:33,560 Speaker 1: How much more does God love me than that? How 606 00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:36,800 Speaker 1: much more grace does He have for me? And that 607 00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:38,520 Speaker 1: to me was where Paul was. 608 00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:42,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, right, well, he was aware of his sins, and 609 00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:46,840 Speaker 3: so his gospel was it some abstraction as he preached grace, 610 00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:50,000 Speaker 3: and he's the apostle of grace. He knew first and 611 00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:52,840 Speaker 3: foremost I have received grace, and then he passed on 612 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:55,400 Speaker 3: that message. And praise God for his grace. We all 613 00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:55,840 Speaker 3: need it. 614 00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:57,320 Speaker 2: So I want people. 615 00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:00,200 Speaker 1: I want people right now as we go into not 616 00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:02,840 Speaker 1: only are we going into the Easter season, but in 617 00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:07,160 Speaker 1: the world we're going into a very challenging season when 618 00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:10,360 Speaker 1: it comes to politics, and politics is I would say, 619 00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:14,640 Speaker 1: to your point of evil has always been there. Politics 620 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:19,120 Speaker 1: is there, but in abundance now. And I see younger 621 00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:22,520 Speaker 1: and younger people getting affected by the stresses of politics 622 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:26,440 Speaker 1: and by the false teachings. And now we see false 623 00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:30,080 Speaker 1: prophets and false teachers getting into mixing that. I want 624 00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:32,240 Speaker 1: to be a political leader, but I'm also going to 625 00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:34,720 Speaker 1: bring a false gospel to you. And we're seeing that 626 00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,040 Speaker 1: out of Texas right now, where we have a candidate 627 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:39,120 Speaker 1: who is saying God is a woman and God is 628 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:42,840 Speaker 1: non binary. And the story of Mary is the story 629 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:46,440 Speaker 1: of why God approves of abortion and all these crazy things. 630 00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:49,480 Speaker 1: And that to me is like, this is a time 631 00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:53,280 Speaker 1: to get deep into a book like this where you 632 00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:58,280 Speaker 1: can really feel those times and see God's grace but 633 00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:02,400 Speaker 1: also God's lessons, how true his word is and what 634 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:05,520 Speaker 1: is the word of the false teachers? And how did 635 00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:09,840 Speaker 1: you determine which is which? And help your children determine 636 00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:12,080 Speaker 1: which is which and follow the path of the Lord. 637 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:15,560 Speaker 2: Well, that's one of the reasons I keep writing all 638 00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:17,640 Speaker 2: of these kinds of books and making my movies to 639 00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:20,520 Speaker 2: the way I shot a lot of it in Israel. 640 00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:24,280 Speaker 2: And it's just important that we understand where we came 641 00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:28,840 Speaker 2: from and how we got here now. And I as 642 00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:31,520 Speaker 2: a woman who had a Jewish father who was an 643 00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:37,280 Speaker 2: immigrant from Russia, rushied he escaped the programs. My mother's 644 00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:39,200 Speaker 2: father was also an immigrant. There's a lot of talk 645 00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:42,680 Speaker 2: about that. I don't get involved politically, but I just 646 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:44,680 Speaker 2: I don't even know what I was going to say. 647 00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:47,560 Speaker 2: It's you know, Brian, I've probably done one hundred interviews 648 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:47,800 Speaker 2: in the. 649 00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:50,960 Speaker 3: Last pay Well, whatever is going to it's going to 650 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:54,640 Speaker 3: be about Yhua and the goodness of his message for sure. 651 00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:56,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. What I was going to say is 652 00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,800 Speaker 2: that so many of us who are our believers and 653 00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:02,960 Speaker 2: we sincerely try to follow you Shore or if you 654 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:06,920 Speaker 2: call him Christ, same same person, same person, but one 655 00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:10,000 Speaker 2: is is Hebrew and one is is uh Is from 656 00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:14,440 Speaker 2: the Apostolic period after Jesus was resurrected and ascended, and uh, 657 00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:18,200 Speaker 2: you know, people were not called Christians when Jesus was 658 00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:20,239 Speaker 2: on the earth. They were called followers of the Way. 659 00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:24,360 Speaker 2: And then then, of course we know what happened, and 660 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:26,720 Speaker 2: Jesus went away, and then it became the New period, 661 00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:29,400 Speaker 2: and then it was called the Apostolic way because it 662 00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:32,160 Speaker 2: was it was different. They weren't disciples anymore than in 663 00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:34,000 Speaker 2: the same way they were taken. They were to take 664 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:36,239 Speaker 2: it at what's the meaning Greek to take away, to 665 00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:38,680 Speaker 2: go forth with, to be an apostle. 666 00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:42,040 Speaker 3: The apostle means sent out. Yeah, yeah, we sent nder 667 00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:42,839 Speaker 3: the eyewitnesses. 668 00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:46,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, so I just wish people would understand where we 669 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:50,680 Speaker 2: came from. As from a Jewish perspective, it's important. Jesus 670 00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:53,440 Speaker 2: was a rabbi. He kept every one of the of 671 00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:57,040 Speaker 2: the festivals and and all the main things that happened 672 00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:00,239 Speaker 2: in Jesus's life, tutor happened on during the fest All 673 00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:02,960 Speaker 2: that we read about, lots of them, and ninety percent 674 00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:05,880 Speaker 2: of what Jesus talks about was from Galilee. But he 675 00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:11,120 Speaker 2: went to the festivals. And we say Easter in our culture, 676 00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:14,759 Speaker 2: but it was not Easter Sunday that Jesus was resurrected. 677 00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:18,000 Speaker 2: It was first fruits. It's called first fruits in the 678 00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,200 Speaker 2: in the Jewish faith. To tell him what first fruits is. 679 00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:23,440 Speaker 3: Well, first fruits and Jesus is called the first fruits 680 00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:26,760 Speaker 3: of the resurrection. But it basically means that the Israelites 681 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:29,439 Speaker 3: would bring in when they got a harvest, they would 682 00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:32,040 Speaker 3: offer the beginnings of the harvest because they said, Lord, 683 00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:34,440 Speaker 3: we know you're going to bring much more. So when 684 00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:37,480 Speaker 3: Jesus is resurrected, he's the first fruits of a harvest 685 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,680 Speaker 3: to come. There's going to be so many more resurrections 686 00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:44,080 Speaker 3: and life. If he's the life, much more life is 687 00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:46,359 Speaker 3: going to be harvested in the wake of that one. 688 00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:49,200 Speaker 3: So it has a reference to that. 689 00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:52,239 Speaker 2: I just love learning about that. We know, we know 690 00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:55,760 Speaker 2: about Passover, he's crucified on Passover, but think about Easter 691 00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:58,560 Speaker 2: because that's really is it a pain in term? It's 692 00:35:58,600 --> 00:35:59,480 Speaker 2: just not Hebrew. 693 00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:02,120 Speaker 3: The word is like from Ishtar I think, which was 694 00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:03,400 Speaker 3: a goddess or something. 695 00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:06,160 Speaker 2: But see that's where the east is on the east. 696 00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:08,960 Speaker 3: So it's related to that, like the resurrection in the 697 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:12,080 Speaker 3: east the sun. Well, it's just it's the word everybody uses, 698 00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:13,719 Speaker 3: and so I guess we have to embrace it on 699 00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:16,400 Speaker 3: that level. But as you're pointing out their roots behind it. 700 00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:20,759 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, there's there is so much to learn. 701 00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:23,000 Speaker 1: And I love that you wrote the book. I like 702 00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:24,840 Speaker 1: I said, I love the way the book is written. 703 00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:27,759 Speaker 1: For those of you who haven't read it, you read 704 00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:30,319 Speaker 1: a chapter, you're taken in. It's like it is like 705 00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:33,160 Speaker 1: you're watching a movie. You're taken right to that time, 706 00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:35,960 Speaker 1: and then we get this commentary from the two of 707 00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:38,040 Speaker 1: you at the end, which, as you can see if 708 00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:40,520 Speaker 1: you're listening, you know that it's beautiful. 709 00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:41,680 Speaker 2: It is amazing, and it. 710 00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:45,160 Speaker 1: Is really thoughtful, but it's also very natural. So I 711 00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:48,040 Speaker 1: love the way the book is written. I encourage people 712 00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:49,640 Speaker 1: to go out and get it. It is Nero and 713 00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:53,480 Speaker 1: Paul how the Gospel of Grace defeated the ruler of Rome. 714 00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:58,160 Speaker 1: So tell everybody. It's just everywhere, right all the bookstores. 715 00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:01,480 Speaker 1: It's available March tenth, so you can pre order it 716 00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:02,000 Speaker 1: right now. 717 00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:06,080 Speaker 2: That and the audio, and yeah, I think it'll take 718 00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:08,160 Speaker 2: you on a journey. We learned from our first book 719 00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:10,400 Speaker 2: here and Mary, that we did the coda at the 720 00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:13,239 Speaker 2: very end. The coda is really a musical term to 721 00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:17,040 Speaker 2: repeat to go back and discuss. But I think this 722 00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:21,000 Speaker 2: way works better because we right, You're right. The chapters 723 00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:24,520 Speaker 2: are very specific and then we talk in Our code 724 00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:27,880 Speaker 2: is about how we can apply it to today and 725 00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:30,440 Speaker 2: what can we learn from this that I can literally 726 00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:32,720 Speaker 2: take away from that and apply it to my own life, 727 00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:36,080 Speaker 2: because otherwise it's just entertainment, and we want to entertain 728 00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:38,600 Speaker 2: with our book. We really do. I've been an entertainer 729 00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:41,120 Speaker 2: all my life, and I don't know any other way 730 00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:43,759 Speaker 2: to even think except for in rhyme and lyrics and 731 00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:47,439 Speaker 2: cinematically that's who I am. He comes more from the 732 00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:50,400 Speaker 2: academic world. So it's a good combination of this. 733 00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:53,279 Speaker 1: Yes, that's why it's such a good mix. Honestly, that's 734 00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:55,960 Speaker 1: what I was thinking. My daughter is always saying, I 735 00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:58,719 Speaker 1: want a better study Bible that kind of explains things 736 00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:01,240 Speaker 1: to me. And this is this is like you said, 737 00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:04,000 Speaker 1: this takes some stories from the Bible and it just 738 00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:06,120 Speaker 1: kind of blows them up and goes in deeper. But 739 00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:09,080 Speaker 1: that at the end, that study part of it takes 740 00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:11,000 Speaker 1: you to today, which I think is so beautiful. 741 00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:12,239 Speaker 2: I think it was Cody's idea. 742 00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:15,200 Speaker 3: Cody, Yeah, your son, Cody. He's a great dude. Oh yeah, 743 00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:17,640 Speaker 3: Cody's got his thumb prints all over this book too. 744 00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:18,480 Speaker 2: He's such a good ud. 745 00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:20,040 Speaker 3: He's a keeper. 746 00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:22,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's good. I love that guy. Like his life 747 00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:25,560 Speaker 2: so much better than him myself. I love Eric because 748 00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:27,400 Speaker 2: she's so much nicer to me than you. 749 00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:29,240 Speaker 3: Walk that's hilarious. 750 00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:30,120 Speaker 2: I married her. 751 00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:35,160 Speaker 1: But even the way you explain, I'll say this, and 752 00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:37,360 Speaker 1: I know we've got a little over, but you're so 753 00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:38,520 Speaker 1: fascinating to talk to you. 754 00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:41,440 Speaker 2: I will say, even the way and I could see. 755 00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:43,840 Speaker 1: Your connection to Mary, and I understand why you're saying 756 00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:45,960 Speaker 1: the last book was hard for you to read because 757 00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:51,520 Speaker 1: even the way you described Mary watching Jesus crucified and saying, 758 00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:54,840 Speaker 1: my son's thirty five, what would I do as a mom, 759 00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:57,560 Speaker 1: and that I would put myself in that place? And 760 00:38:57,600 --> 00:39:00,239 Speaker 1: I think the same I was thinking as you were 761 00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:03,920 Speaker 1: taking me through that in the book. I was thinking, Yes, yes, 762 00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:07,279 Speaker 1: as a mom, you would do anything. And and we 763 00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:10,480 Speaker 1: have to remember that what we know she didn't know. 764 00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:13,720 Speaker 1: She didn't have that foresight of what was next. 765 00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:17,239 Speaker 2: You know, she didn't know that art. She knew she 766 00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:19,560 Speaker 2: had enough people telling her this will be right. 767 00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:22,160 Speaker 1: But that human side of her is he's still getting 768 00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:26,239 Speaker 1: pulled away that he's not with her every day. 769 00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:28,680 Speaker 2: And yet she's at the cross, but she's also at the. 770 00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:33,400 Speaker 3: Tomb and room when the when the Holy Spirit descends, 771 00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:34,760 Speaker 3: she's there too. 772 00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:37,360 Speaker 2: Yes, room at that And that is Pentecost, that was 773 00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:40,040 Speaker 2: that's always been a ya. That's a it's a Greek word, 774 00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:42,880 Speaker 2: but it's it's something that the Jews celebrate. That's fifty 775 00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:44,920 Speaker 2: days after Passover, right right, And. 776 00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:47,279 Speaker 3: This is the kind of thing that we wanted those 777 00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:49,960 Speaker 3: those codas to do. Where which is like like you're 778 00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:51,840 Speaker 3: doing tu to recinc I have to think about this 779 00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:53,719 Speaker 3: from my own life, and if it's just a book 780 00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:56,040 Speaker 3: about go to the first century or people from long ago, 781 00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:58,920 Speaker 3: doesn't have that. But so many people love Kathy's voice. 782 00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:00,960 Speaker 3: They heard it in their ears for you know, every 783 00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:03,560 Speaker 3: day for so many years. All those listeners are now 784 00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:06,120 Speaker 3: a new generation that's getting to know her, and so 785 00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:09,600 Speaker 3: we wanted we wanted to talk about the book. So 786 00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:11,640 Speaker 3: you get a little window at the end of each 787 00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:13,840 Speaker 3: chapter into what we're thinking and how it might apply, 788 00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:17,800 Speaker 3: and jokes and insights, and we share back and forth 789 00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:19,800 Speaker 3: and so like you said, it's like a little miniature 790 00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:21,760 Speaker 3: podcast at the end of each chapter. 791 00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:26,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, I loved it. I encourage everybody to 792 00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:28,600 Speaker 1: go out and get it again. It's Nero and Paul 793 00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:31,720 Speaker 1: how the Gospel of Grace defeated the Ruler of Rome, 794 00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:35,160 Speaker 1: and it is Kathy Lee Gifford and doctor Brian Litvin. 795 00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:37,880 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for sharing today. It was amazing 796 00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:38,759 Speaker 1: talking to you both. 797 00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:42,520 Speaker 2: Thanks for having God blessing loom shalom everybody. 798 00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:45,280 Speaker 1: God bless you, yes, and thank you all for listening 799 00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:46,120 Speaker 1: to the podcast. 800 00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:47,600 Speaker 2: God bless you. Get the book. 801 00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:50,120 Speaker 1: Go out and make sure you tune into the next podcast. 802 00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:52,480 Speaker 1: We love having you all listening, and thank you so 803 00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:53,520 Speaker 1: much for joining me today. 804 00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:54,399 Speaker 2: We loved having you here.