1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Hi. This is Laura Vanderkam. I'm a mother of four, 2 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:08,479 Speaker 1: an author, journalist, and speaker. And this is Sarah Hart Hunger. 3 00:00:08,840 --> 00:00:11,799 Speaker 1: I'm a mother of three, practicing physician and blogger. On 4 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 1: the side, we are two working parents who love our 5 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:17,920 Speaker 1: careers and our families. Welcome to best of both worlds. 6 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 1: Here we talk about how real women manage work, family, 7 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 1: and time for fun, from figuring out childcare to mapping 8 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 1: out long term career goals. We want you to get 9 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 1: the most out of life. Hello, and welcome to best 10 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 1: of both worlds. You may notice that this is not 11 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 1: our typical Laura doing the intro. I'm actually flying solo today, 12 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 1: so this feels quite honestly, really weird. We here up 13 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 1: to episode one hundred and thirty, and I have never 14 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:49,720 Speaker 1: been on the mic by myself. I have recorded some 15 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 1: interviews solo, but this is the first time I've just 16 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 1: been in front of this thing alone talking to myself, 17 00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: so I don't know, it's a little different. It's funny. 18 00:00:59,880 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 1: I was thinking about some of my favorite podcasts that 19 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 1: have just one host. There's not a ton of them, 20 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:07,720 Speaker 1: but some people manage to do it really well. I 21 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 1: don't know if I have the chops to be able 22 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 1: to get on here and just kind of I don't know, 23 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:17,480 Speaker 1: say enough to keep people occupied for any significant chunk 24 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 1: of time. But I thought it would be fun to 25 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:21,760 Speaker 1: mention some of my favorite podcast hosts that do that. 26 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:27,959 Speaker 1: There's Kendra Adacci who does the Lazy Genius podcast. There 27 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:31,040 Speaker 1: is the Organized three hundred and sixty five podcasts. That's 28 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 1: Lisa Woodruff, who just talks on the mic by herself 29 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 1: and she's fantastic at it. Tanya Dalton often brings in 30 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:40,959 Speaker 1: guests on her planner focused podcast, but she does a 31 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:45,039 Speaker 1: lot of solo portions as well. Denay Barahona also sometimes 32 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 1: has some guests on Simple Families, but will also often 33 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 1: talk solo. And then Andy from marriage, kids and money, 34 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 1: and I apologize I don't know Andy's last name at 35 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 1: this moment, but he often will host a podcast solo 36 00:01:57,520 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 1: and does a great job I think pacing things and 37 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:04,280 Speaker 1: keeping it interesting even though it's just him. So wow, 38 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:07,000 Speaker 1: those are some of my favorites. I think one of 39 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 1: the key ingredients to being a successful solo podcast host 40 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 1: is well, probably two things. Number one preparation, because you 41 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 1: don't entirely have to script a conversational podcast, you can 42 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 1: kind of let it flow in whatever direction feels right. 43 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:22,639 Speaker 1: But I would imagine that if you're just talking, you 44 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:25,400 Speaker 1: had better know what you're going to say, because no 45 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 1: one's going to prompt you. You don't want awkward blank space. 46 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 1: Like not just kidding, I was going to do some 47 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 1: awkward blank space, but that's a little ridiculous, you know 48 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:36,160 Speaker 1: what I mean. I also think that it's more effective 49 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:39,120 Speaker 1: when the speaker has some valuable knowledge to impart. So 50 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:42,839 Speaker 1: you know, someone who is an expert in financial independence 51 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 1: or planners like Tanya Dalton, or organization like Lisa do 52 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 1: a very nice job. But if it was just sort 53 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 1: of a blanket life or motherhood podcast, I think it 54 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:55,080 Speaker 1: might be a little bit harder to just kind of 55 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 1: riff on one's own. Now, I could sort of imagine 56 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:03,639 Speaker 1: like planner cast working, So maybe if I ever did 57 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:06,920 Speaker 1: decide to launch a solo side project, we could have 58 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 1: planner casts and we would talk about planning techniques and 59 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:13,639 Speaker 1: have famous planner guests and I could do planner reviews. 60 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:18,520 Speaker 1: And this actually sounds sort of fun. But no, there 61 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:21,079 Speaker 1: are no current plans in the work works to begin 62 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 1: planner casts, but it is a fun kind of fantasy 63 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 1: to think about. All right, well, I'm not going to 64 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 1: go on too much longer on my own, but I 65 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:31,880 Speaker 1: do want to take a moment to introduce the guests 66 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:35,120 Speaker 1: that we're going to have on today's show. Ariana Tabawata 67 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 1: is someone I've been following on Instagram for quite a 68 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 1: while because I think I think I noticed her. I 69 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 1: don't know, in the early days of our podcast. She 70 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 1: came up as sort of a motherhood advocate, someone who 71 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:52,080 Speaker 1: is passionate about maternity leave rights for women, and she 72 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 1: now is running her own basically consulting business helping women 73 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:58,400 Speaker 1: craft the best maternity leaves that they can, and that's 74 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:01,120 Speaker 1: especially for women that kind of run their own businesses 75 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:04,600 Speaker 1: or might be entrepreneurs. And she continues to do a 76 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 1: lot of advocacy work. You know, again, we don't this 77 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 1: is not a political podcast, but there are principles that 78 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 1: I think many of us can agree on, one of 79 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:16,479 Speaker 1: which being that mothers in this country, probably in the world, 80 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 1: but also in this country need more support and she 81 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 1: is working toward that. So I think you'll really enjoy 82 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 1: this interview. She's a lovely person. So without further ado, 83 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 1: I'm going to welcome Ariana Tabowata to the show. Hello, 84 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:34,480 Speaker 1: and I am happy to welcome Ariana. Do you pronounce 85 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 1: it tabwaaa? You got it right? Awesome. Well, one of 86 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:40,840 Speaker 1: my coworkers actually has the same name, So there you go, 87 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:44,920 Speaker 1: and we are so thrilled to have you on the show. Now, 88 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:47,479 Speaker 1: I joked that it would have been kind of ridiculous 89 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 1: to have Laura take part in this conversation because Arianna 90 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:56,280 Speaker 1: is an expert on optimal maternity leaves and practices, postpartum 91 00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:58,599 Speaker 1: health and all that, So to have Laura participate in 92 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:02,160 Speaker 1: a conversation out those things about seven days after giving 93 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:06,280 Speaker 1: birth would have been pretty crazy. So it's just going 94 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 1: to be me during this conversation. But I'm so happy 95 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 1: to have you Ariana. Can you tell our listeners a 96 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 1: little bit about your background? Sure? So I'm joining you 97 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 1: from the other coast. I'm in California and I live 98 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 1: here with my little family, my partner, my son. I'm 99 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:27,719 Speaker 1: an internal health professional and social worker by training and 100 00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 1: worked in clinical settings for some years before going out 101 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:37,040 Speaker 1: on my own and starting a private consulting practice where 102 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:40,719 Speaker 1: I first did kind of like all the maternal health 103 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 1: stuff and then slowly shifted to focusing on postpartum, and 104 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:48,159 Speaker 1: then I really honed in on maternity leaves specifically for 105 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:53,039 Speaker 1: service based business owners in twenty fifteen, and that's where 106 00:05:53,279 --> 00:05:56,840 Speaker 1: kind of the sweet spot has been ever since. Oh 107 00:05:56,880 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 1: my goodness, well, then, yes, it would have been crazy 108 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 1: to have to Laura here, as she is kind of 109 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:05,039 Speaker 1: a service based business owner. I guess, tell me, if 110 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:08,720 Speaker 1: you had to design the ideal maternity leave for that 111 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:11,359 Speaker 1: class of people you said, service based business owners, what 112 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:15,839 Speaker 1: would it look like. Yeah, So, I think the first 113 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 1: principle that I like to work with is that designing 114 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 1: for your personal needs and your business model means that 115 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:26,359 Speaker 1: it's never going to look the same for two people, 116 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:28,800 Speaker 1: and so really thinking about how to do both of 117 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 1: those things in a thoughtful manner, that's kind of the 118 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 1: core of what I work with people on, identifying and 119 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:40,840 Speaker 1: then planning out and implementing. There's a few kind of 120 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 1: core beliefs that I do have that I'm happy to 121 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 1: share one of them, which is why before we got 122 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:50,799 Speaker 1: on the MIC, I was just out of curiosity asking 123 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:54,600 Speaker 1: if Flora's baby came early. Because one of the things 124 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:58,120 Speaker 1: I often talk with people about is to remove any 125 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 1: work where they have to show up at around thirty 126 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:05,159 Speaker 1: five weeks, so that a lot of times people just 127 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 1: don't know when their baby is going to come. I 128 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 1: work primarily with first time business or first time moms 129 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 1: who are business owners, and so they a lot of 130 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 1: times when we first got on the phone, they're like, 131 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:19,040 Speaker 1: what are you talking about. I should be done by 132 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:21,239 Speaker 1: thirty five weeks, and I was like, well, your baby 133 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 1: can come before exactly forty weeks of pregnancy, and so 134 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:30,120 Speaker 1: that's one of the things. The other thing that I 135 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 1: also like to just help people think about and dig 136 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 1: into is what their transitions will look like. So what 137 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 1: the transition out of their business will look like. I 138 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:44,000 Speaker 1: primarily work with people who have small teams and so 139 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 1: thinking about how they are going to both delegate to 140 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 1: their team but also prepare their team to function without 141 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 1: them if they're in kind of a manager role or 142 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:58,120 Speaker 1: a leadership role, which they typically are as a founder. 143 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 1: And then also with the transition back is going to 144 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 1: look like. I think a lot of people, especially in 145 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 1: the US, just have kind of this arbitrary you know, oh, 146 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 1: maybe I'll take three months, and because they see people 147 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 1: in more traditional workplace settings taking that amount of time. 148 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:18,320 Speaker 1: But actually, as an entrepreneur, that's like the silver lining 149 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:22,760 Speaker 1: of taking self paid, self funded maternity leave is that 150 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 1: you don't have to go back full time at a 151 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:29,560 Speaker 1: certain number of weeks or months. So I try and 152 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:32,200 Speaker 1: encourage people to really think about how to have a 153 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:37,079 Speaker 1: transition period back. No, that totally makes sense as somebody 154 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:39,280 Speaker 1: who's employed. Yeah, it's very different because if you're in 155 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:42,440 Speaker 1: a large organization, you can schedule up to forty weeks 156 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:45,079 Speaker 1: knowing that you already have or in many cases may 157 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 1: have a backup network in place. So many physicians, I know, 158 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:50,160 Speaker 1: if they're in large groups, they don't want to waste 159 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 1: a single moment of their maternity leave, so they do 160 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 1: stay on their feet until that baby comes out, but 161 00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:58,040 Speaker 1: they do know that well, if it happens early, there's 162 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:00,840 Speaker 1: sort of automatic backup coverage. And I know that's very 163 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:03,520 Speaker 1: different if you're working for yourself, and I love that 164 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 1: have a face place to be physically, because you can 165 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:09,600 Speaker 1: probably tweak around with deadlines of some deliverables. And I mean, 166 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:12,440 Speaker 1: Laura's already been answering emails, which I mean, you'll have 167 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:15,160 Speaker 1: to tell me how you feel about that, because I 168 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:20,640 Speaker 1: think it's pretty funny actually, but yeah, totally different scenarios, right, yeah, 169 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 1: I mean this is also her fifth baby, rights her 170 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:29,320 Speaker 1: fifth baby knows what she's doing. No, Like, okay, I 171 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 1: will be fine answering emails. I think when it's your 172 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:35,319 Speaker 1: first or even your second, that's often you know, one 173 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:38,080 Speaker 1: of the big questions is what do I want my 174 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:42,560 Speaker 1: boundaries to be? Like what kind of what kind of 175 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 1: face time do I want to have in my business 176 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:48,360 Speaker 1: when I am off. One of the things that happens 177 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:51,320 Speaker 1: a lot is is it's hard for founders to completely 178 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:54,240 Speaker 1: one hundred percent step away. So a lot of times 179 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:56,839 Speaker 1: they are in touch with their team members, but it's 180 00:09:56,880 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 1: figuring out, well, do you really want to be the 181 00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 1: one answering client emails or is there someone else who 182 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 1: could handle that, or is there you know, a set 183 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 1: of ten really frequent client emails that you could pre 184 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:13,320 Speaker 1: write out so you're not typing out at all hours 185 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 1: of the day and night. Oh I love that. Come 186 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:19,520 Speaker 1: up with like ten frequently dealt with scenarios and then 187 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:23,319 Speaker 1: have somebody that is hired specifically to basically fill out 188 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 1: templated responses and maybe only have like an SOS phone 189 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 1: call if things kind of veer off of those predetermined tracks. 190 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:32,960 Speaker 1: Is that what you're getting at? Yeah, Essentially, it's like 191 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:36,200 Speaker 1: client trioge right, is what is the client triage process 192 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:39,560 Speaker 1: going to be when I am not the first point 193 00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:44,920 Speaker 1: of contact? And honestly, everything from client communications and kind 194 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:50,000 Speaker 1: of client flow to just general operating procedures of a business. 195 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:53,600 Speaker 1: I see a lot of founders that at this point 196 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:57,800 Speaker 1: of pregnancy really being kind of it's the forcing function 197 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:01,560 Speaker 1: to having to think about how a business might operate 198 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 1: without them. No, that makes sense. So talk a little 199 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 1: bit about You're talked about planning maternity leave a bit 200 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 1: and the ways you can set things into place and 201 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 1: when to start that maternity leave. Talk a little bit 202 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:16,360 Speaker 1: about the transition back, because that going to be a 203 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:20,400 Speaker 1: little bit trickier and I'm sure is equally individualizable for 204 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:24,640 Speaker 1: each person, since for every scenario is so different. Yeah. 205 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 1: I mean, so the first thing that I often say is, 206 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:31,679 Speaker 1: let's approach planning with just like a spirit of experimentation 207 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:37,760 Speaker 1: and curiosity. And I find that planning and quarters in 208 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:41,160 Speaker 1: that first year postpartum can work really well for business owners. 209 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:43,679 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, lots of things fall along in 210 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 1: terms of finances, in terms of quarters, but also just 211 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:49,320 Speaker 1: thinking about how their day to day work and day 212 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 1: to day schedule might change quarter to quarter in that 213 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 1: first year is often helpful because developmentally, their child's needs 214 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:02,280 Speaker 1: will also be changing a lot, even in shorter shorter 215 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:04,960 Speaker 1: spurts than quarter to quarter, But three months at a 216 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:08,199 Speaker 1: time is a nice chunk to be able to work 217 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 1: with in terms of planning ahead, and so the we 218 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:15,559 Speaker 1: usually when sitting down with someone, I usually plan out 219 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:18,600 Speaker 1: the first two quarters back, and that's about as far 220 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 1: as we get, because beyond that, it's like, well, you've 221 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:24,080 Speaker 1: got to see what kind of baby you end up 222 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:26,679 Speaker 1: with and what kind of birth you end up having, 223 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:29,960 Speaker 1: and how you end up feeling. So a lot of 224 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 1: the planning back is actually thinking about what personal supports 225 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 1: do you need in place, What do you know about 226 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:41,600 Speaker 1: yourself now that can give you some ideas of what 227 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 1: kind of help you want around what kind of household 228 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:51,200 Speaker 1: tasks you want support with, so that the personal things 229 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 1: don't become a boundary to getting back to work, and 230 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:57,680 Speaker 1: so you're able. I found that when people really have 231 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:04,040 Speaker 1: a strong support system and strong support network postpartum, then 232 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 1: it makes it not like getting back to work is 233 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:09,119 Speaker 1: ever easy. But it makes it a little less challenging 234 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 1: to get back to work because you're not also having 235 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 1: to struggle and plan and problem solve when it comes 236 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:18,400 Speaker 1: to all the personal support. Awesome. Well, We're going to 237 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:19,960 Speaker 1: take a very quick break and then I'm going to 238 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 1: ask you a little bit more about partner support. This 239 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 1: episode is brought to you in part by door Dash. 240 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 1: DoorDash is a meal ordering platform that I'd love to 241 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 1: use when I'm ordering lunch at work if I'm stuck there, 242 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 1: either seeing patients or going from meeting to meeting. 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You can 267 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 1: connect with your professional counselor in a safe and private 268 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:54,960 Speaker 1: online environment, so it's very convenient for people who are 269 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:58,800 Speaker 1: working and raising families but want to prioritize their mental health. 270 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:01,680 Speaker 1: Get help on your own time and at your own pace. 271 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:05,280 Speaker 1: You can schedule secure video or phone sessions, plus chat 272 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 1: and text with your therapist. Betterhelp has licensed professional counselors 273 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 1: who specialize in everything from depression and in stress and 274 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:17,480 Speaker 1: anxiety to relationship and sleeping issues. 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Go to betterhelp dot com slash 283 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:46,880 Speaker 1: best of simply fill out a questionnaire to help them 284 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 1: assess your needs and get matched with a counselor you'll love. 285 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:55,360 Speaker 1: That's betterhelp dot com slash best Of. Okay, we're back. 286 00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:57,800 Speaker 1: So the question that came to mind when you were 287 00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:00,440 Speaker 1: just talking about support, is you ever work with couples 288 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 1: or partners? Because I feel like so much of arranging 289 00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 1: what you're going to need is not just conversation with okay, 290 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:09,440 Speaker 1: what are you going to outsource? But maybe looking to 291 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:11,800 Speaker 1: see how the couple is functioning as a couple and 292 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:14,840 Speaker 1: maybe if there's certain home responsibilities that need to shift. 293 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:17,840 Speaker 1: I would think that with your kind of social worker expertise. 294 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:19,520 Speaker 1: I don't know if you've had experience in working with 295 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:21,840 Speaker 1: families like that, but I could see how that would 296 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 1: be a really valuable angle to take. Yeah, So I 297 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:28,680 Speaker 1: use a tool that, I mean, as you were getting at, 298 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:32,040 Speaker 1: comes from the social work world. So I've something that 299 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:33,920 Speaker 1: I've used in a lot of different settings and with 300 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 1: a lot of different people, and then ended up developing 301 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:42,720 Speaker 1: one specifically for postpartum support networks for use with clients, 302 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:45,360 Speaker 1: and I'm happy to link to it. It's totally free 303 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:47,520 Speaker 1: to anyone who wants to listening and wants to look 304 00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 1: at it or use it. But it's called an eco map, 305 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:53,720 Speaker 1: and it is a way to visually map out your 306 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 1: support networks and then do some brainstorming and identifying of 307 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:02,680 Speaker 1: the the core things and the core people that can 308 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:06,840 Speaker 1: help you achieve those things. So if you kind of 309 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:09,679 Speaker 1: imagine this concentric circle of a small circle and then 310 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:12,119 Speaker 1: a slightly bigger one and a slightly bigger one, and 311 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:16,280 Speaker 1: there's essentially ways you plot different people and your different 312 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:19,440 Speaker 1: needs on there so that you can identify both what 313 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:22,680 Speaker 1: your needs and who is going to help fulfill those 314 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:25,760 Speaker 1: But also because you're visually mapping out, it can help 315 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:29,920 Speaker 1: you really clearly see where there's gaps in certain areas. 316 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 1: And once you know where the gaps are, then it 317 00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:35,199 Speaker 1: can kind of they become They no longer become gaps, right, 318 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 1: they become this okay, opportunity for addressing this. So that's 319 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:42,800 Speaker 1: one of my favorite tools that I've used for a 320 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:46,920 Speaker 1: long long time. That sounds really cool. Are there certain 321 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:50,399 Speaker 1: scenarios which tend to pose a lot more challenges that 322 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:54,320 Speaker 1: you've seen, like multiple births or single parents or what 323 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:57,160 Speaker 1: are some of the I don't know, strategies that one 324 00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:00,879 Speaker 1: can use when you're in those tougher situations. Yeah, So 325 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:05,119 Speaker 1: I think the the challenging situation that I see most 326 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:10,199 Speaker 1: office often is when the business owner is either the 327 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:13,159 Speaker 1: primary or the sole breadwinner and they're self funding their 328 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:17,120 Speaker 1: leave and that ends up causing a lot of stress 329 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 1: both for the business and for the parent and for 330 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:26,160 Speaker 1: the people in their lives. And so that kind of 331 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 1: a reverse engineering approach to finance and maternity leave funding 332 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:37,960 Speaker 1: is something that I talk through a lot pretty frequently 333 00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:43,120 Speaker 1: with people, And I mean, my professional stance around it 334 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:48,359 Speaker 1: is that, you know, this is essentially a symptom of 335 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:52,119 Speaker 1: the fact that that entrepreneurs are left out of maternity 336 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:55,679 Speaker 1: leave policies, even in countries where there are federal policies, 337 00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:58,400 Speaker 1: and so in the US, it's like it's like everyone 338 00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:02,960 Speaker 1: kind of has a has a not very appetizing situation 339 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 1: to go out on leave with, given that we have 340 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:12,400 Speaker 1: no federal policy, and business owners tend to be kind 341 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:14,439 Speaker 1: of out on their own with a lot of other people. 342 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:17,840 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, yeah, I can see. Actually, I have 343 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:21,680 Speaker 1: a very close family member that's facing basically all of 344 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:24,679 Speaker 1: those challenges very soon. I may have her on the 345 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 1: podcast afterwards if she is willing. But wow, I would 346 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:31,360 Speaker 1: think the most important things are setting up just as 347 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:38,080 Speaker 1: much human support as possible, family, friends, other things. But yeah, 348 00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:40,560 Speaker 1: if you have any tips, I think that's a really 349 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:45,199 Speaker 1: kind of your right neglected population. It's really hard. Yeah, 350 00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:49,520 Speaker 1: So I happy to share a little bit about my story. 351 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:54,359 Speaker 1: I had my son in Mexico, which is a country 352 00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:58,960 Speaker 1: that does have a twelve week paid leave policy for 353 00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:04,399 Speaker 1: certain sectors of the kind of employed population. Entrepreneurs are 354 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:07,680 Speaker 1: not one of them, so I self funded my leave. 355 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:14,240 Speaker 1: I'm a too freelance or too self employed household though, 356 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:17,919 Speaker 1: and so we really struggled to figure out what, like, 357 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:20,119 Speaker 1: how is cash flow going to work? Around that time, 358 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:23,600 Speaker 1: I essentially became my own client, and so I took 359 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:26,280 Speaker 1: myself through the same process that I used with clients 360 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:28,679 Speaker 1: in mapping out my own leave. And I knew I 361 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:32,280 Speaker 1: wanted to have about four months where I was really 362 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 1: not seeing clients. And what I didn't really foresee was 363 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:42,080 Speaker 1: my husband having some major changes in his own business 364 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:45,440 Speaker 1: and therefore his income during that time. So I ended 365 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:48,720 Speaker 1: up starting to do a little bit of client work 366 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:52,480 Speaker 1: at like six weeks. I could not have foreseen that. 367 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:56,320 Speaker 1: I did not think. It was stuff like signing new 368 00:20:56,359 --> 00:20:59,240 Speaker 1: contracts and getting a little influx of cash. It wasn't 369 00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:02,560 Speaker 1: a ton of work. Only had like for maybe four 370 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:05,359 Speaker 1: hours of childcare a week, so it was by no 371 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:08,960 Speaker 1: means full time work. But I never would have imagined 372 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:11,119 Speaker 1: when I was doing my planning that I would be, 373 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 1: you know, seat in chair at my computer anytime near 374 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 1: six weeks. And the things that really helped me feel supported, 375 00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:23,160 Speaker 1: and they were things that you know, I had seen 376 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:28,600 Speaker 1: really effectively work for other moms and business owners were 377 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:33,840 Speaker 1: things like meal trains and having family members that would 378 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:37,800 Speaker 1: provide help in the way that I found helpful help. 379 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 1: I think one challenge is is everyone wants to help, 380 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:43,040 Speaker 1: but not everyone knows what actually feels helpful to you. 381 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:48,439 Speaker 1: So identifying those people who could actually help in a 382 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:52,040 Speaker 1: way that felt supportive. And then what I hadn't planned 383 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:58,680 Speaker 1: for is actually my time beyond like my individual postpartum journey. 384 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:03,120 Speaker 1: And so at one point my provider said, I think 385 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:05,080 Speaker 1: it's time for you to like go out and meet 386 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:08,640 Speaker 1: some other new moms, because I had really I had 387 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:11,639 Speaker 1: really focused on being in this little cocoon, and so 388 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:15,640 Speaker 1: that was a huge learning for me. And in joining 389 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:19,680 Speaker 1: a local new mom's group, found a lot of positive 390 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:24,199 Speaker 1: basically psycho emotional support. And I didn't have any you know, 391 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:29,720 Speaker 1: I had a low risk, healthy pregnancy and birth, I 392 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:33,520 Speaker 1: didn't have any postpartum complications, so health wise, it was 393 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:35,720 Speaker 1: like as easy as it gets. But it is still 394 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:39,679 Speaker 1: a trying time for everyone. And so I think that 395 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:46,600 Speaker 1: combination of having like material help, food, people around, a 396 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:49,080 Speaker 1: place to go when I needed to get out of 397 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:52,879 Speaker 1: the house, and this new Mom's group as well as 398 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:58,880 Speaker 1: providers who who really provided continuity of care, I had care. 399 00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:02,320 Speaker 1: And again we're talking about maternal health in a different country, 400 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:05,639 Speaker 1: so maternity care in the US these as much to 401 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:10,600 Speaker 1: be desired as well. But I had postpartum visits. I 402 00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:15,600 Speaker 1: had about five from day of birth through six weeks postpartum. Oh, 403 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:18,080 Speaker 1: that's so cool. Maybe nice that we had more of 404 00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:22,919 Speaker 1: that postpartum home attention here, maybe someday. What about So 405 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:27,240 Speaker 1: you mentioned resources for maternal mental health issues, and it's 406 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:30,600 Speaker 1: so funny on this podcast, I've discussed that. So I 407 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:33,320 Speaker 1: never had postpartum depression. I guess I was lucky with that. 408 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:37,560 Speaker 1: I actually struggle much more with mood issues around cycling. 409 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:40,399 Speaker 1: So it's when I'm not pregnant and not breastfeeding that 410 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:44,600 Speaker 1: I find hormonal fluctuations at the most challenging. And that's 411 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:46,879 Speaker 1: been a lot better since I've figured out some solutions. 412 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:50,679 Speaker 1: But I know that a big part of your platform is, 413 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:54,800 Speaker 1: you know, really watching out and being proactive about perinatal 414 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:58,040 Speaker 1: and postnatal mood disorders. So what are some things people 415 00:23:58,080 --> 00:23:59,879 Speaker 1: can do to kind of watch out for that, And 416 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:02,600 Speaker 1: what are your thoughts about even sort of the post 417 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:04,679 Speaker 1: postpartum phase, Because I feel like there's a lot of 418 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:07,639 Speaker 1: attention given to like those first you know, three months 419 00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:10,560 Speaker 1: or maybe even the fifth trimester. But it doesn't necessarily 420 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:13,040 Speaker 1: get easy when your child is fifteen months old. I mean, 421 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:15,960 Speaker 1: in fact, sometimes like the post weaning can be even 422 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,439 Speaker 1: more difficult, or that the time when your baby all 423 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,199 Speaker 1: of a sudden has their own demands and they're not 424 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:24,160 Speaker 1: necessarily in line with what you'd want. So any thoughts 425 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:27,480 Speaker 1: on that, Yeah, I mean, I again sharing a little 426 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:31,080 Speaker 1: bit about the personal I really found what you're saying 427 00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:33,399 Speaker 1: as I'm nodding as you're talking, because I really found 428 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:37,840 Speaker 1: that around sixteen eighteen months postpartum, So when my son 429 00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:39,639 Speaker 1: was a good year and a half, that's when I 430 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:42,960 Speaker 1: really started feeling like I needed more support on the 431 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:47,359 Speaker 1: mental health front. And so there's a few resources that 432 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:53,080 Speaker 1: I always love to have handy. Part of the ECO 433 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:57,480 Speaker 1: map also talks through identifying what are the local resources 434 00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:00,280 Speaker 1: from maternal mental health in your area. It is is 435 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:06,159 Speaker 1: a you need specialized training, so not all psychotherapists are 436 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:10,200 Speaker 1: trained to address paranaidal mental health, and so it's really 437 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:13,120 Speaker 1: worth seeing. You know, if I were to have this challenge, 438 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:17,360 Speaker 1: who would I go to in my community? Sometimes they're 439 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:20,720 Speaker 1: a little hard to find and sometimes they're hard to 440 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:25,920 Speaker 1: find within your insurance network, So just having an idea 441 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:29,640 Speaker 1: of a few providers in your area ahead of time, 442 00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:33,879 Speaker 1: even if you don't end up needing them, it's worth 443 00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 1: ten minutes of googling to find where in your area. Similarly, 444 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:43,040 Speaker 1: there's kind of more group psychotherapy or support groups that 445 00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:47,200 Speaker 1: address mental health. Again, even if you're not having clinical symptoms, 446 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:50,200 Speaker 1: it can be nice to be like, when I'm having 447 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:52,640 Speaker 1: a down day, who where could I go? Or who 448 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:56,120 Speaker 1: could I call? So one of those resources is actually 449 00:25:56,200 --> 00:26:00,880 Speaker 1: Postpartum Support International. They have a fantastic helpline where essentially 450 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:05,080 Speaker 1: you can call, you are directed to greave a little voicemail, 451 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:09,720 Speaker 1: and a trained volunteer calls you back immediately with resources 452 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:11,879 Speaker 1: in your area. So they're able to direct you to 453 00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:15,080 Speaker 1: support in your area and also do a little kind 454 00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:17,320 Speaker 1: of crisis intervention if you need to talk to someone 455 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:21,080 Speaker 1: right then. So that's one resource that I love. And 456 00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:24,600 Speaker 1: they are international, as is suggested in the name, so 457 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,679 Speaker 1: they really at this point have it's rare that they 458 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 1: can't direct you to someone who can support you. Oh 459 00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:32,840 Speaker 1: that's really cool. And I also love the idea of 460 00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:35,720 Speaker 1: maybe putting some of the pieces in place before you 461 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:37,560 Speaker 1: need them, because it's when you need them that you're 462 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:40,159 Speaker 1: in the least a bit of a mental space to 463 00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:42,600 Speaker 1: go out and find the people that might be have 464 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:47,400 Speaker 1: helped you. So that's great. We're going to take one 465 00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:49,480 Speaker 1: more quick break as we have a new sponsor, Fiver, 466 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,800 Speaker 1: to introduce. We know many of you listeners are business 467 00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:56,080 Speaker 1: owners and have experienced the challenges of finding freelance talent 468 00:26:56,240 --> 00:27:00,680 Speaker 1: for your business or project. 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Have your interests clinically shifted as your 486 00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:00,720 Speaker 1: daughter has gotten older now that she's a three year old? 487 00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:03,240 Speaker 1: Are you looking more into just maternal health in general, 488 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,840 Speaker 1: thinking about you know, families with multiple children and managing 489 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:10,440 Speaker 1: managing you know, the logistics of households. Have you shifted 490 00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:13,320 Speaker 1: it all or is it still mostly just postpartum that's 491 00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:18,680 Speaker 1: your passion? Yeah, So I do think that I'm still 492 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:23,679 Speaker 1: really interested in kind of the specifics around entrepreneurship and 493 00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:29,960 Speaker 1: maternity leave and the transitions and maternity. You know, birth 494 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:33,159 Speaker 1: postpartum is one transition, but as you we're getting to 495 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:38,640 Speaker 1: there's there's these multiple transitions that come along. And so 496 00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:43,120 Speaker 1: I think, as I've worked with women and also walked 497 00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:47,120 Speaker 1: my own journey, I am really interested in kind of 498 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:52,200 Speaker 1: pregnancy through eighteen months postpartum and just knowing about how 499 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:58,280 Speaker 1: many simultaneous changes there are with with a parent within 500 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:04,560 Speaker 1: you know, feetu infant toddler with a business, and how 501 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:08,000 Speaker 1: much can change within the work context in kind of 502 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:11,640 Speaker 1: that two year cycle. I think that whole span of 503 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:17,360 Speaker 1: time is just this ripe area for further discussion. I also, 504 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:21,280 Speaker 1: as you might know, social workers have a pretty strong 505 00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:25,920 Speaker 1: social justice leaning in our training, and so I do 506 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:29,800 Speaker 1: see myself as as working in this area where I 507 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:32,520 Speaker 1: do a lot of individual work, but really so much 508 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,800 Speaker 1: of the work that I do is influenced by this 509 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:42,120 Speaker 1: structural or this lack of supportive infrastructure around leave and 510 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:46,480 Speaker 1: around working parenthood, and around things like universal childcare and 511 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:52,200 Speaker 1: paid leave for folks. So I feel pretty strongly about 512 00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:55,800 Speaker 1: any time that I talk about my work that it's 513 00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:58,760 Speaker 1: you know, I do the work I do because there 514 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:03,360 Speaker 1: aren't systems that are set up to otherwise support women 515 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:06,920 Speaker 1: that I typically work with. So any chance that I 516 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:09,320 Speaker 1: get to talk about like policy, your advocacy, I always 517 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:13,360 Speaker 1: jump at it. That is fantastic. No, And these are 518 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:15,760 Speaker 1: all hopefully evolving issues, and well, I guess we'll see 519 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:19,320 Speaker 1: what happens if the political landscape shifts at all, will 520 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:22,240 Speaker 1: steer away because we're not a terribly political podcast, but 521 00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:24,120 Speaker 1: I think we can all agree that it is we 522 00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:26,880 Speaker 1: need to be giving new mothers this more support than 523 00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:29,200 Speaker 1: they currently have right now, so hopefully that will be 524 00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:34,120 Speaker 1: a big evolving issue as time passes. I would like 525 00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:37,080 Speaker 1: to ask you one more question, which is that if you, 526 00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:42,840 Speaker 1: you know, are a brand new, newly pregnant person and 527 00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:46,320 Speaker 1: you if you had one, I don't know, big takeaway 528 00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:49,280 Speaker 1: as to like what not to do with your planning 529 00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:52,360 Speaker 1: your leave? What would it be? Or you could also 530 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:55,040 Speaker 1: add if you ever end up having a second maternity 531 00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:58,959 Speaker 1: leave in the future, what would you do differently? Great question. 532 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:09,640 Speaker 1: I think this is this is a tough one you see, ah, 533 00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:12,000 Speaker 1: or maybe just a very common mistake that you see 534 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:17,360 Speaker 1: people making. Yeah, I mean I think a pretty common 535 00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:21,840 Speaker 1: mistake that I You know, the type of people that 536 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,720 Speaker 1: I work with tend to be people who start businesses 537 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:29,120 Speaker 1: type a goal oriented stickler for details, like just set 538 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:34,240 Speaker 1: a plan and stick to it. So the I guess 539 00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:37,000 Speaker 1: the planning, the type of planning that I try and 540 00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:41,840 Speaker 1: steer people away from, is like a I either fail 541 00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:47,520 Speaker 1: or succeed at this maternity leave thing and really approaching it, 542 00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:50,440 Speaker 1: as I said at the beginning, with the spirit of 543 00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:55,880 Speaker 1: experimentation and seeing it as an opportunity to if something's 544 00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:58,640 Speaker 1: not working, think okay, what needs to be tweaked, what 545 00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:02,480 Speaker 1: needs to be changed? Are kind of the variables in 546 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:05,600 Speaker 1: this puzzle, and how can I move some of them 547 00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:10,560 Speaker 1: around and see if the outcome is better? That makes sense, 548 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:12,959 Speaker 1: so not to have concrete black and white thinking and 549 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:17,360 Speaker 1: to stay very flexible. And for those who are seeing 550 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,200 Speaker 1: you to plan ahead, they're the ones probably most likely 551 00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:23,720 Speaker 1: to kind of be overplanning, and so it totally makes 552 00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:26,120 Speaker 1: sense that you'd want to steer people away from that 553 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:29,160 Speaker 1: and to be kind of themselves. It can be different 554 00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:32,720 Speaker 1: than you expect. Yeah, I mean you've been through three 555 00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:36,200 Speaker 1: at this point, so I'm sure you have. I'm sure 556 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:39,959 Speaker 1: your expert your like expectations and planning shifted slightly with 557 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:43,440 Speaker 1: each one. Definitely, definitely well. I mean I had it 558 00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:46,840 Speaker 1: pretty easy because I do. I don't work for myself, 559 00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:50,000 Speaker 1: so I get how there are positives and negatives. Like 560 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:52,160 Speaker 1: I see how like the gradual phase in in some 561 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:54,920 Speaker 1: ways is preferable to like, you know, black and white, 562 00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:56,760 Speaker 1: Like one day you're home and then the next day 563 00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:58,840 Speaker 1: you're like pumping four times a day and getting up 564 00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:00,880 Speaker 1: at the crack of dawns. So I think there are 565 00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:03,600 Speaker 1: positives and negatives on both sides, but hopefully we can 566 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:06,560 Speaker 1: end up with more support for all at some point. 567 00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:10,000 Speaker 1: One last thing we always do on this podcast with 568 00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:11,880 Speaker 1: all of our guests. I don't know how many episodes 569 00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:14,640 Speaker 1: you've listened to, but we always have a love of 570 00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:18,400 Speaker 1: the week. So I will give you mind so that 571 00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:26,040 Speaker 1: you have time to think about yours, and I will say, hmmm, 572 00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:30,120 Speaker 1: I love that I am happy to come back to 573 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:34,840 Speaker 1: work after some time off, because it means I must 574 00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,800 Speaker 1: really love my job, because I was really excited to 575 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:39,880 Speaker 1: come back, and it may have been in part because 576 00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:42,800 Speaker 1: I needed a break for my children, but it was 577 00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:45,560 Speaker 1: also because I was excited to see everybody and to 578 00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:48,520 Speaker 1: kind of dive back into things. And so I will 579 00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:50,080 Speaker 1: just say that I love that I am lucky enough 580 00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:51,720 Speaker 1: to have a job where I was excited to come back. 581 00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:58,920 Speaker 1: Mine is similar. This is my first child free hour since, 582 00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:05,560 Speaker 1: like Deevenber twentieth, and so I am feeling very grateful 583 00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:11,880 Speaker 1: for childcare and caregivers and people who take care of 584 00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:17,879 Speaker 1: children for a living, and am looking forward to day 585 00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:21,920 Speaker 1: care being back in session shortly. I love the honesty 586 00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:24,680 Speaker 1: I totally knew where you're coming from and by the way, listeners, 587 00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:27,399 Speaker 1: we did record this a couple of weeks ago, so 588 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:30,480 Speaker 1: she hasn't been with a child for a month. That 589 00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:32,959 Speaker 1: would be that would be well, not terrible. That would 590 00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:35,760 Speaker 1: have been a challenge, but it was still challenging anyway, 591 00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:38,440 Speaker 1: So thank you for sharing that. But Ariana, it has 592 00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:40,799 Speaker 1: been a pleasure. I'm sorry Laura didn't get to join us, 593 00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:42,759 Speaker 1: but I'm sure she will be excited to listen to 594 00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:46,160 Speaker 1: you once this is on the air. And I really 595 00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:50,280 Speaker 1: appreciate you sharing your wisdom about everything postpartum and maternal 596 00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:57,080 Speaker 1: health and maternity leave and beyond. Thanks for having me. Sarah, Well, 597 00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:00,240 Speaker 1: that was a great interview. It was wonderful having her, 598 00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:03,760 Speaker 1: and just remember you can hear more about her services 599 00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:06,719 Speaker 1: or read more about her at her website Ariana tabawada 600 00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:10,120 Speaker 1: dot com. So instead of a traditional Q and A, 601 00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:13,600 Speaker 1: I decided that I would record just one of our 602 00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:15,680 Speaker 1: emails that we got. Every once in a while we'll 603 00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:18,880 Speaker 1: get a lovely testimonial from a listener, and it is 604 00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:23,320 Speaker 1: so much fun to hear, especially when someone has taken 605 00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:25,920 Speaker 1: things that we've said and it's really made a difference 606 00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:29,160 Speaker 1: in their lives. Laura and I instantly forward these kinds 607 00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:31,440 Speaker 1: of emails to each other, and so in order to 608 00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:33,480 Speaker 1: thank you, and also because I didn't really want to 609 00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:36,000 Speaker 1: answer a Q and A without anyone to keep me 610 00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:38,359 Speaker 1: in check, I decided I would read this. So here 611 00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:41,960 Speaker 1: we go. Hi, Sarah. I have been listening to best 612 00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:44,239 Speaker 1: of both worlds religiously for the past year, and then 613 00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:46,880 Speaker 1: I started following your blog. You have inspired me to 614 00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:49,200 Speaker 1: go to sleep earlier, to wake up earlier, and to 615 00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:52,719 Speaker 1: start running again. After having some surgery shortly after my 616 00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:55,080 Speaker 1: son was born almost four years ago and losing a 617 00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:57,200 Speaker 1: lot of feeling in my leg, I took a few 618 00:35:57,239 --> 00:35:59,399 Speaker 1: years hiatus from running, which I used to love. Well. 619 00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:02,520 Speaker 1: Because of you, I'm back to running and absolutely loving it. 620 00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:05,040 Speaker 1: I inspired my husband to work out again too, and 621 00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:08,239 Speaker 1: we even created Google calendar events around our workout schedules. 622 00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:12,040 Speaker 1: So thank you so much on many levels. She also 623 00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:13,880 Speaker 1: mentioned that she was sorry that I was in a 624 00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:15,840 Speaker 1: funk because this was sent around the time that I 625 00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:18,319 Speaker 1: was having some mood issues and hoped I felt better soon. 626 00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:21,200 Speaker 1: She writes, we all get down sometimes, and often for 627 00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:24,040 Speaker 1: periods that are longer than we'd like. It definitely sounds 628 00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:26,880 Speaker 1: like you're on a positive journey. Now sometimes I feel 629 00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:29,279 Speaker 1: like being on a journey towards recovery is actually one 630 00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:31,680 Speaker 1: way to recover, though it takes time, and I love that. 631 00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:36,600 Speaker 1: I really really appreciate getting those kinds of emails, so 632 00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:39,080 Speaker 1: thank you. We also love it when people leave us 633 00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:42,520 Speaker 1: reviews and also suggestions for guests. It's a new year 634 00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:44,960 Speaker 1: and Laura and I are full of ideas of things 635 00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:47,600 Speaker 1: we'd like to do with this podcast, and one thing 636 00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,040 Speaker 1: is to continue to bring on more guests, guests with 637 00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:53,400 Speaker 1: more diversity, guests from different backgrounds, guests doing different things 638 00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:56,839 Speaker 1: and with different ideas, so please send us your suggestions. 639 00:36:57,440 --> 00:36:59,480 Speaker 1: So thank you so much for listening, and we will 640 00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:02,080 Speaker 1: be back next week, probably both of us, with more 641 00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:07,040 Speaker 1: on making work and life fit together. Thanks for listening. 642 00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:10,400 Speaker 1: You can find me Sarah at the shoebox dot com 643 00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:14,279 Speaker 1: or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram, and you can 644 00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:18,560 Speaker 1: find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This has 645 00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:21,920 Speaker 1: been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please join us 646 00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:25,320 Speaker 1: next time for more on making work and life work together.