1 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:07,520 Speaker 1: Hey, this is any and Samantha, and welcome to stuff 2 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:19,680 Speaker 1: I never told you production of iHeartRadio. It's time for 3 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:23,799 Speaker 1: another happy hour. As always with these segments, drink responsibly 4 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:26,000 Speaker 1: if you choose to do so. I think this one's 5 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 1: gonna be pretty fun. What are you sitting on, Samantha? So, 6 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:33,479 Speaker 1: after our last ventures with our cocktails, I decided to 7 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:36,280 Speaker 1: keep it simple with my Corona premiere being real summer. 8 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:41,120 Speaker 1: What about you? Yes? So, so what I have kind 9 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 1: of a soo Samantha knows. I'm not gonna go too 10 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:47,199 Speaker 1: in depth, but I had a whole chicken. I'll call 11 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:49,159 Speaker 1: it a fiasco. Well, basically, I got a lot of 12 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:51,879 Speaker 1: chicken I have to cook um, and I'm trying to 13 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 1: roast the whole chicken, which means I bought all these herbs. 14 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 1: But it's way too many herbs for a single person, 15 00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:57,959 Speaker 1: even though I'm roasting a whole chicken. So I made 16 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 1: like a time rosemarre Gin and Tonic situation. And it's 17 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 1: very nice. M hmm. That sounds delightful. It is, and 18 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:10,399 Speaker 1: it's actually appropriate for what we're talking about today. Uh 19 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:14,160 Speaker 1: and uh, just heads up, we are talking about this show. 20 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 1: Our flag means death, which means we're not going to 21 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 1: spoil it, but we might. So if you really really 22 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:24,320 Speaker 1: don't want to spoilers, maybe wait on this one. It's 23 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 1: on HBO Max and it's great. Have you seen it all, Samantha, Yes, 24 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 1: very much, enjoyed it really good, very light m cheeky humor. Yes, yes, 25 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:38,880 Speaker 1: it's yes. And the reason I was saying this drink 26 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 1: is appropriate is that the gin and tonic was kind 27 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 1: of originally invented as a malaria sure, medicinally, but a 28 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 1: lot of drinks like that that have sort of the 29 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 1: alcohol component and then the citrus component were used by 30 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 1: um people who are on water for a long periods 31 00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 1: of times, including pirates. Yeah, to to keep away Scruby, 32 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 1: they try to find oranges in an episode. They do 33 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:07,279 Speaker 1: try to find oranges in an episode of this show, which, okay, 34 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:09,520 Speaker 1: I guess we should break it down in case what 35 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 1: we're talking about. Um So. This show was created by 36 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 1: David Jenkins and it stars Reese Darby as Steve Bonnet 37 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:20,680 Speaker 1: and Tako Tit as Edward Teach and Blackbird. Also, I 38 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 1: guess um and is loosely based on Bonnet's real life 39 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:27,600 Speaker 1: exploits as a pirate during the eighteenth century. It starts 40 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:30,880 Speaker 1: with him leaving his wife and kids to go be 41 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 1: a pirate and being quite terrible at it. And one 42 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:37,080 Speaker 1: of the reasons I wanted to talk about this, which 43 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:39,640 Speaker 1: I bet a lot of you have seen, is there's 44 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 1: been a lot of discussion around this show and queer 45 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:47,040 Speaker 1: representation and toxic masculinity. So I honestly, I think we 46 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:50,360 Speaker 1: could do a whole episode on this, but we're just 47 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:55,840 Speaker 1: gonna kinda during more happy our conversational take right now. 48 00:02:56,960 --> 00:03:02,200 Speaker 1: Um So, Steve bon it is kind of the opposite 49 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:05,720 Speaker 1: of what we've seen as pirates. Largely, he's not very 50 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:07,400 Speaker 1: good at it, Like I think one of the first 51 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 1: opening scenes, he's trying to get his crew just so 52 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 1: a flag, like he's teaching them to so he's trying 53 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:15,959 Speaker 1: to give them this space to be creative and artistic. Um. 54 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 1: He's very all about like supporting each other and being friendly, um, 55 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:27,800 Speaker 1: and supporting each other and perhaps lesser less typically masculine 56 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:33,720 Speaker 1: activities and less typically pirate activities. Uh So, a lot 57 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 1: of people have said that this show is a really 58 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 1: interesting critique on toxic masculinity, in particular because you see 59 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:45,440 Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of aspects of taskic masculinity, 60 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 1: not even only through the pirates and through what traditional 61 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 1: pirating is, but also to like steeds relationship with his father, 62 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 1: who always kind of called him weak and really insulted him. Um. 63 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 1: There's the scene where black Beard is looking through a 64 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 1: book and realizes like, oh, this is how people think 65 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 1: of me, like a really violent monster, and that's sort 66 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:11,240 Speaker 1: of a destabilizing realization for him. Um, and we're gonna 67 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 1: come back to that in a minute. You've got black 68 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 1: Beard's right hand Izzy, who is very like representative of 69 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 1: toxic masculinity and specifically perhaps a repressed, closted gay man 70 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:27,159 Speaker 1: like a you know priests in that sense of like 71 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 1: always talking out about it but secretly is in internalizing 72 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 1: a lot of homophobia. That was the take I saw 73 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 1: on him a lot anyway. Uh. And then you do 74 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 1: have this narrative with Steed's wife, who again he kind 75 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 1: of just abandoned one night, and you get to see 76 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:52,239 Speaker 1: an episode that's largely from her perspective when Steed comes 77 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:55,680 Speaker 1: back and she's like so bummed that I came back. 78 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 1: She's like, I'm doing so much better without you. I've 79 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 1: like embraced my artistic side. I've found some real like 80 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:06,520 Speaker 1: passionate love, like we were never good together, so that 81 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:13,640 Speaker 1: was interesting. And then just him in general, Steed in general, 82 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:17,000 Speaker 1: trying so hard to fit into this really toxic masculinity 83 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:19,160 Speaker 1: world of piracy and doing terribly at it in the 84 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 1: traditional manner and seeing like his horror at it a lot, 85 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 1: because he'll take like notes and just be horrified at 86 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:27,279 Speaker 1: what's happening. Um, but then like trying to do it 87 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:29,840 Speaker 1: in his own way and not giving up these pieces 88 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:31,800 Speaker 1: of himself even though he feels like he has to, 89 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 1: especially when it comes to things like fashion, because he 90 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 1: kind of grew up in this haughty world of m 91 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:42,920 Speaker 1: aristocrats and all the like passive aggressive rules and all 92 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:44,600 Speaker 1: that stuff that he really hated and thought he could 93 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:48,840 Speaker 1: fit in there either. Um. But now let's let's talk 94 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:54,760 Speaker 1: about gay love because the show has gotten a lot 95 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:57,520 Speaker 1: of credit, and I would say rightfully so for pushing 96 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:01,359 Speaker 1: the boundaries of queer representation. And and I mentioned in 97 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 1: our recent rerun we did on Queer Rating that I 98 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:08,000 Speaker 1: was surprised that it wasn't queer bating. So it turns 99 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:11,279 Speaker 1: out there's sort of this arc of what could be 100 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 1: read as friendship between Blackbeard and Steve Bonnet. But in 101 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:20,159 Speaker 1: the end they do have a very sweet kissing scene 102 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 1: and they admit how much they mean to each other 103 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 1: and how happy they make each other. And I mean, 104 00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:28,479 Speaker 1: it's one of those things like, now that I know 105 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:32,360 Speaker 1: that it's going there, it's very obvious. But that's also 106 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 1: how prevalent queer bating is that I wouldn't have been 107 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:38,359 Speaker 1: surprised if it hadn't happened, where it's kind of a 108 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:42,200 Speaker 1: joke of like, oh, they're like, it's a bromance. Look 109 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:47,200 Speaker 1: at this, they're breaking up. That turns out, um, it's 110 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:49,320 Speaker 1: it actually wasn't, So that was a nice surprise, but 111 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 1: it did make me sad. I mentioned in the episode 112 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:56,480 Speaker 1: we did bridget around Dana Scully and the Scully Effect 113 00:06:56,480 --> 00:07:00,279 Speaker 1: to how many articles I got of people just so 114 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:04,120 Speaker 1: desperately searching for representation that they'll find it anywhere, which 115 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:06,719 Speaker 1: I'll come back to you. But it was really refreshing. 116 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 1: It was like I just thought it wasn't gonna happen, 117 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 1: and then it did. And it's very like people, especially 118 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 1: um in the particular pretty queer area of my fan 119 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 1: fiction corner, people love this show and they always talking 120 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 1: about it. So that's nice to see, right, And there 121 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 1: are a lot of queer characters, not just them. I 122 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 1: have Lucius who's openly gay and I really appreciate him 123 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 1: kind of being the outside outsider watching these two and 124 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 1: being like, YouTube need to get together, like yeah, yeah. 125 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 1: And then you have so Steed on his ship has 126 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 1: this huge closet and I found a really interesting essay 127 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 1: about it, um about you know, it being kind of 128 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:55,120 Speaker 1: a literal representation of in the closet, like queer queer 129 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 1: people being in the closet. But then also like all 130 00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 1: the different ways queer people can present themselves all ways 131 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:03,920 Speaker 1: you can identify and exists because of all the different 132 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 1: clothing colors and styles and all of that. Um so 133 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 1: I thought that was cool. And when Steed shows black 134 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 1: Beard is closet, black Beard is like fluw mixed by 135 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:15,680 Speaker 1: all these options. But it turns out he really likes 136 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 1: he likes the fashion style and he wants to experiment 137 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 1: with it and try it. And then yeah, as I mentioned, 138 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:26,720 Speaker 1: there are like kind of two breakup scenes between Steed 139 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:29,680 Speaker 1: and black Beard. One is kind of when Lucius it's 140 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 1: like that was a good man and you let him 141 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 1: go whatever. And that's kind of when black Beard, I think, 142 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 1: has this moment of wait a minute, I don't think 143 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 1: I was picking up on this the whole time. And 144 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 1: then in the end when they have their more serious 145 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:44,520 Speaker 1: breakup and black Beard sort of has a decision between 146 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 1: embracing these new parts of his identity he's found that 147 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:53,960 Speaker 1: are less toxic, are reverting back to being what everyone 148 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 1: thinks he is and what he expects them to be. 149 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 1: A friend of mine sent me a really interesting gizmoto 150 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 1: article about how black Beard could possibly be a sexual 151 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 1: character representation, and it's worth threeting if you want to 152 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:21,480 Speaker 1: go check it out. There's a couple of good points 153 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 1: I just want to hit on real quick, otherwise this 154 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:27,480 Speaker 1: episodes can be super long. But kind of this idea 155 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 1: black Beard has of he has to be sexual as 156 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:32,600 Speaker 1: a man because that's the what the world expects and 157 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 1: that's how you get respect. So it's clear that he's 158 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 1: had a lot of he's had a lot of sex 159 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 1: in his life, but whether or not that had any 160 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:42,760 Speaker 1: meeting or it's just something he felt like he had 161 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:47,360 Speaker 1: to do isn't as clear. Um. They also pointed out 162 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 1: his wardrobe is primarily the colors of the Ace flag. 163 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:55,520 Speaker 1: So that's interesting, m h. And these are the two 164 00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:59,400 Speaker 1: that really really hit with me is that he has 165 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 1: to be told Steed was flirting with him, not realizing 166 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:04,719 Speaker 1: that he was essentially on a date. So there's a 167 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:06,560 Speaker 1: steam where Steed just trying to make him feel better 168 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 1: and he makes his treasure map and it's like, come on, BlackBerry, 169 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:12,959 Speaker 1: we're gonna go have this day. And that's Lucy is 170 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:15,440 Speaker 1: finally like, oh my gosh, it's happening. Don't you see 171 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:18,559 Speaker 1: what this man is doing for you? Uh? And and 172 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 1: black Beard being like oh and then uh, they're kiss 173 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 1: being one of acceptance not of lust at the ends. 174 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 1: There's several other scenes throughout people have pointed out that 175 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 1: are romantic and not sexual necessarily, but there's one where 176 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:36,560 Speaker 1: they're like under the moon and Steve says you wear 177 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 1: nice things well and they hold on in contact for 178 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 1: a while and it's like a moment of acceptance, um, 179 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:43,959 Speaker 1: which is what a lot of people have said that 180 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:48,240 Speaker 1: they feel like it's black Beard coming to accept this 181 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:53,360 Speaker 1: queer part of his identity. Um. But yeah, those two things. 182 00:10:53,400 --> 00:11:00,120 Speaker 1: As an a sexual person, I was definitely like, yeah, yeah, 183 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:02,760 Speaker 1: uh so I highly recommend the article, and then yeah, 184 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:07,679 Speaker 1: just it was very critically lauded. It was very successful. 185 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 1: I know, it was one of the top streaming shows 186 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:13,720 Speaker 1: for a long time and fans loved it. But HBO 187 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 1: only just renewed it. It took them quite a long time, 188 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:18,760 Speaker 1: and there was a lot of conversation about why that 189 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 1: might be as well. But I'm kinda got renewed because 190 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 1: it was pretty big cliffhanger ending. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it 191 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 1: would have been sad. It would have been very sad. 192 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:31,920 Speaker 1: It would have been very very sad. Oh. Now I'm 193 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 1: interested in the fan fiction world I've met. That place 194 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:38,680 Speaker 1: is blowing up so many options for that fan fiction world. 195 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:42,000 Speaker 1: We have so many romance and side side stories in there. 196 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:46,200 Speaker 1: I love it. Do love them meeting with the Indigenous people, 197 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:48,960 Speaker 1: and the Indigenous people telling the Black Parrots you don't 198 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:50,480 Speaker 1: want to stay with us, I think you might want 199 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:52,680 Speaker 1: to stay with us. Like it was like very indicative 200 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:55,720 Speaker 1: of like, yeah, this is interesting, and then the whole 201 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:58,960 Speaker 1: famis scheme very fun as well. Oh yeah, that's my 202 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 1: favorite episode I love. I've talked about one that one before. 203 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:09,600 Speaker 1: That's the passive aggressive episode where being passive Uh yeah, 204 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:11,520 Speaker 1: I highly recommend it, and like I said, I think 205 00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:14,480 Speaker 1: we could come back and talk about these themes as 206 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:17,720 Speaker 1: they relate to this show more in depth in the future. 207 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:23,559 Speaker 1: But in the meantime, cheers, cheers, Yes, thank thank you, 208 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:28,000 Speaker 1: clean and listeners. If you have any thoughts about this 209 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 1: show or any articles you want to send our away, 210 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:33,959 Speaker 1: you know we would love to get them, and as always, 211 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:35,880 Speaker 1: any suggestions of things we should talk about, and if 212 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:38,120 Speaker 1: you want to hear us talk about this even more, 213 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 1: let us know that as well. You can email up 214 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 1: stuff to your mom stuff at I hurt mea dot com. 215 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:44,800 Speaker 1: You can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast 216 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 1: or Instagram and stuff I Never told you. Thanks. It's 217 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:49,720 Speaker 1: always to our super producer Christina. Thank you Christina, and 218 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:51,959 Speaker 1: thanks to you for listening Stuff under told the protiction 219 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 1: I hurt Radio for more podcast from our heart radio 220 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:55,839 Speaker 1: but I heard you app Apple podcast or Revulus and 221 00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:56,680 Speaker 1: David Ships