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Speaker 1: Hey, everyone, it's Carvel and before we get into this episode,

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Speaker 1: I want to ask you a favor. Throughout this series,

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Speaker 1: we've talked a lot about how Fred Rogers has helped

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Speaker 1: show us how to make the world a kinder place,

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Speaker 1: a better place. But now we want to hear from you.

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Speaker 1: We want to hear a story about when someone in

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Speaker 1: your life showed you what it means to be a helper.

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Speaker 1: Maybe it's someone in your family, or someone in your community,

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Speaker 1: or someone that you haven't seen since you were a kid,

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Speaker 1: but that you still think about something they did to

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Speaker 1: help you. Whoever they are, wherever they are, however they're helping,

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Speaker 1: we want to hear about it. So give us a

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Speaker 1: call at three three six five one five zero five

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Speaker 1: to nine. Again, that's three three six five one five

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Speaker 1: zero five to nine, and tell us a story about

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Speaker 1: someone who has shown you how to be a helper

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Speaker 1: and we might just play it on an upcoming episode.

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Speaker 1: Again that number is three three six five one five

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Speaker 1: zero five two nine, or you can tweet you're still

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Speaker 1: with the hashtag finding Fred. Okay, now, let's start the

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Speaker 1: show about a nash studio that sounds studio. Well, that's

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Speaker 1: very much like the place we make our television visits.

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Speaker 1: It's and Mr Rogers is in Moscow. Here would you

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Speaker 1: like to play? Of course I would. I'd love to

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Speaker 1: touch a piano wherever I go. My neighbor by, the

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Speaker 1: Soviet Union had just begun opening up dialogue with the US,

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Speaker 1: and that somehow landed Mr Rogers on the set of

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Speaker 1: good Night, Little Ones, the USSRS longest running children's program.

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Speaker 1: Back then, there was no television except for one channel

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Speaker 1: that was played on in Russian, which I couldn't understand,

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Speaker 1: mostly the news propaganda, and then there was a childhood

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Speaker 1: program that played at night that I also couldn't understand.

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Speaker 1: Kristof Putzel was an American kid living in Moscow at

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Speaker 1: the time. Both my parents were journalists. They were assigned

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Speaker 1: to cover what ended up being the collapse of the

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Speaker 1: Soviet Union. My parents job was to make sense of

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Speaker 1: a place that didn't make a lot of sense, where

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Speaker 1: information was controlled. Kristof's father was the bureau chief for

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Speaker 1: the Associated Press. His mother was the deputy bureau chief

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Speaker 1: for Time magazine. They moved to Moscow in and took

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Speaker 1: seven year old Kristof and his sister along with them.

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Speaker 1: My parents had told me that the biggest toy store

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Speaker 1: in the entire Soviet Union was across the street from

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Speaker 1: our house. This was the way they tempted me to

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Speaker 1: go there and greeted this whole thing as a seven

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Speaker 1: year old. And let me tell you, it was the

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Speaker 1: first time ever gone to a toy storey. Anyway, it's

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Speaker 1: nothing I wanted to buy, because there was nothing on

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Speaker 1: the shelves. Um, there was I think shoes, some clothes,

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Speaker 1: and a couple of tin toy things and some really

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Speaker 1: complicated models that I think we're for adults. And that

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Speaker 1: was it. That's the biggest toy store. Seven. It's nothing

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Speaker 1: I wanted. I'm Carlo Wallace and this is Finding Fred,

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Speaker 1: a podcast about Fred Rogers from I Heart Media and

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Speaker 1: Fatherly and partnership with Transmitter Media. We often talk about

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Speaker 1: how adaptable kids are, but Kristoff says, the move to

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Speaker 1: Moscow was really hard. Frankly, I was pretty depressed. Um,

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Speaker 1: you just have to understand just how hard Russia was

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Speaker 1: in the eighties, especially for a kid, you know, it

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Speaker 1: being so cold, dark, no access to stuff. Um. Sometimes

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Speaker 1: friends would record like tapes, the cassette tapes and then

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Speaker 1: mail them and I would listen to their voices. We

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Speaker 1: didn't live in an embassy. We lived in a square

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Speaker 1: foot apartment. My mom, my dad, my sister, myself, and

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Speaker 1: our Golden retriever, only golden retriever in the entire civic union.

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Speaker 1: People thought that it was a lion. Our apartment was

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Speaker 1: bugged because the KGB always kept a close eye on them,

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Speaker 1: and they would follow us anytime we were going outside

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Speaker 1: of the city. They would constantly try to attempt to

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Speaker 1: set up my parents to see if they were actually spies,

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Speaker 1: and always monitored whatever stories they're working on. There was

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Speaker 1: always somebody watching and nothing to watch on TV, no

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Speaker 1: familiar cultural touchstones like Sesame Street or three to one contact.

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Speaker 1: So I would watch the same VHS tapes over and

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Speaker 1: over and over again that people would mail from the US.

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Speaker 1: They just tape whatever was on TV and mail it.

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Speaker 1: We'd get it three, four or five months later, if

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Speaker 1: we got it at all. And those were like gold

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Speaker 1: I like you, Yes, I do, I like you. And

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Speaker 1: on a few of those precious VHS tapes were old

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Speaker 1: episodes of Mr Rogers Neighborhood. Certainly do I'm glad you

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Speaker 1: were with me on my swing. So Mr Rogers in

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Speaker 1: Moscow was big news, and Christoph's parents managed to get

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Speaker 1: word to Fred telling him about their depressed kid. And

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Speaker 1: for Fred Rogers, a note about a sad child was

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Speaker 1: like the bat signal. There was one day when my

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Speaker 1: parents told me to make sure I was home for dinner,

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Speaker 1: which I always was, but I remember being weird. They're like,

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Speaker 1: now there's a special dinner tonight. I just remember a

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Speaker 1: knock on the door and I'd sort of gotten used

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Speaker 1: to being let down by surprise as of them trying

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Speaker 1: to like cheer us up in communist Moscow, you know.

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Speaker 1: And I opened the door and there's Mr Rodgers in

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Speaker 1: his card again and the blue shoes, and my jaw

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Speaker 1: apparently just dropped. I remember just being awe struck. I

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Speaker 1: didn't understand why Mr Rogers was at my door. I

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Speaker 1: grew up watching Mr Rogers. I knew every character. I

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Speaker 1: knew I've probably had seen every episode at least for

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Speaker 1: that time frame. Um, And so there I was, and

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Speaker 1: he walks in the door, and he gets down to

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Speaker 1: my eye level and shakes my hand and introduces himself

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Speaker 1: as Fred Rogers and asked what my name was. And

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Speaker 1: I don't even know if I could get the words

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Speaker 1: out of my mouth because Mr Rodgers in the apartment,

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Speaker 1: and um, it was just him on his own and

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Speaker 1: just by himself. I think it was the first time

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Speaker 1: in my life where I felt seen by an adult,

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Speaker 1: like when he got down to my eye level, introduced

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Speaker 1: himself and looked me in the eye. Of course I've

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Speaker 1: had adults introduced themselves to me a million times up

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Speaker 1: to that point and asked me what my name was,

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Speaker 1: But the way that he looked at me, I felt

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Speaker 1: like you saw me. Then he came into the living

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Speaker 1: room and we sat down and he opened up his suitcase.

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Speaker 1: He had a suitcase with him. I feel like it

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Speaker 1: was a briefcase, but it must have been bigger than that. Um.

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Speaker 1: And he opens it up and they're all the puppets

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Speaker 1: I had never put together that Mr Rodgers did the

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Speaker 1: voices I had didn't And so suddenly they were talking

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Speaker 1: and I had King Friday and um and actually owl

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Speaker 1: in my on my couch. This is a real moment

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Speaker 1: for a child, you know. And UM, I think what

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Speaker 1: just really struck me about it was how normal it felt.

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Speaker 1: I mean, not normal, what's the word. UM, It's while

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Speaker 1: it felt surreal, it felt like I was in I

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Speaker 1: was in the Land of make Believe. Suddenly my couch

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Speaker 1: suddenly turned into that in my apartment, and um, it

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Speaker 1: was just like the show. I mean, he was wearing

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Speaker 1: the same stuff. This isn't a like since it set.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't like backstage he was. He had the cardigan

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Speaker 1: on and the blue shoes. Like, I mean, first of all,

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Speaker 1: I'm just really struck by the kind of person you

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Speaker 1: have to be, the kind of self possession you have

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Speaker 1: to have to just walk into some strangers houses and

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Speaker 1: spend the evening with them, like we don't, like, we

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Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know how to do that. I'm like, like,

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Speaker 1: ostensibly my job is to be charismatic in public, and

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Speaker 1: I still don't don't know if I would know how

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Speaker 1: to just go into someone's house with nothing but myself

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Speaker 1: and his suitcase of puppets to spend the evening with

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Speaker 1: them and their family. I have kids, and oftentimes I

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Speaker 1: think about the ways in which illusions are created for

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Speaker 1: them and also shattered for them. And so it's a

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Speaker 1: tailor as old as time that like the kid has

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Speaker 1: someone that they they have idolized and television, then they

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Speaker 1: meet them and then the person is not who they

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Speaker 1: thought they were, and they're crushed. And you had the

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Speaker 1: opposite experience. You you sort of thought this guy was fine,

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Speaker 1: and then you meet him and you find out that

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Speaker 1: he's exactly who as good as he says he is.

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Speaker 1: But I wonder if you ever felt let down. Later,

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Speaker 1: mom one time took me to the set of Sesame

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Speaker 1: Street because she was working on a story for Time magazine.

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Speaker 1: And I went and I was horrified because Big Bird

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Speaker 1: was walking around without the top, you know, just the legs,

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Speaker 1: and the muppets were all like, you know, like lying

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Speaker 1: there corpses, and and they'd warned my mom, they said,

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Speaker 1: you know, credit, they said, we don't usually encourage children

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Speaker 1: to come here. And it was a little jarring. Um.

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Speaker 1: But that wasn't the case with Mr Rodgers. More from

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Speaker 1: Kristoff in just a moment, Mr Rogers visit has stuck

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Speaker 1: with Christop. It's not just that Mr Rogers got down

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Speaker 1: on one knee and looked him in the eye, or

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Speaker 1: that he got to play with King Friday and X

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Speaker 1: the Owl. It's the kindness of Mr Rogers, the effort

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Speaker 1: Fred made in the midst of a busy trip to

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Speaker 1: help a kid like I mean, just think about this

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Speaker 1: for a second. He when all the way across town

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Speaker 1: in a city he didn't know, which is a hard

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Speaker 1: place to get around, to meet a family that he

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Speaker 1: didn't know, just because he heard that there were some

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Speaker 1: kids that were kind of having a tough time. So

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Speaker 1: why do you think he did that. It's a really

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Speaker 1: good question. I think that he heard that there were

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Speaker 1: some kids that, uh grew up watching the show and

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Speaker 1: we're having I think a tough time. There wasn't a

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Speaker 1: whole lot of stuff to look forward to, and then

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Speaker 1: it would be amazing if he would meet them, and

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Speaker 1: he apparently just jumped at the opportunity. And so of course,

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Speaker 1: you know, um, you can imagine a number of people

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Speaker 1: that might want to meet Fred Rodgers or I don't know,

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Speaker 1: maybe no one asked him. Yeah, he just came and

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Speaker 1: did it. And he spent real time. He like sat

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Speaker 1: on the couch and did a whole puppet show and

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Speaker 1: I played with them, like I got to hold I

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Speaker 1: mean that was crazy. I mean I got to hold

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Speaker 1: the king and the owl and the cat and like like.

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Speaker 1: And then he had dinner with us and then we

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Speaker 1: drove him back to the mayor an embassy where he

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Speaker 1: was staying, and so I sat in the back seat

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Speaker 1: of our station wagon. It was one of the only

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Speaker 1: subarus in the entire Soviet Union, and we sat in

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Speaker 1: the backseat and I just sat there with Mr Rogers

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Speaker 1: as we drove him across town and drove him to

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Speaker 1: the front of marrin Amazon Oh. And he was asking

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Speaker 1: questions because he didn't know anything about Moscow. So when

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Speaker 1: we're driving, he was asking questions about what's this, what's this?

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Speaker 1: I knew the answers like. I was like, oh, that's

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Speaker 1: um you know, that's the monument to your your gagar

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Speaker 1: And he was like, oh, that's interesting. Or do you

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Speaker 1: like space? I was like, yeah, I like space. I

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Speaker 1: remember just wanting, like always fantasizing about friends coming so

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Speaker 1: I could tell them about what this place was like.

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Speaker 1: And I'd be like, I know this looks weird, but

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Speaker 1: look at this. This is you know, look, yes, it's

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Speaker 1: normal to see like an entire army going down the street,

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Speaker 1: you know, like, oh yeah, we see tanks all the time.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, they parade these missiles around constantly. Like I

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Speaker 1: know it looks nuts, but that's what life is here.

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Speaker 1: And it never happened, because no one ever came to visit.

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Speaker 1: And I got to give that to to Mr Rodgers.

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Speaker 1: He must have known that just by him being there

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Speaker 1: this was had suddenly transformed Moscow, a place that I

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Speaker 1: hated as a child, into the most magical place I've

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Speaker 1: ever been. And then got to ride through Moscow with

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Speaker 1: I still look back at that, it's like it was

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Speaker 1: just magical when I was a kid. As odd as

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Speaker 1: it sounds, I did the exact same thing. I imagined

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Speaker 1: Ricky Ricardo, for some reason, time traveling from the nineteen

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Speaker 1: fifties to my childhood in the eighties and letting me

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Speaker 1: explain everything to him Walkman and pac Man and Prince.

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Speaker 1: I think now that that was a cure for a

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Speaker 1: kind of loneliness that I felt. That Kristof felt that

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Speaker 1: maybe a lot of kids feel this world is so

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Speaker 1: big and some many things are happening to us all

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Speaker 1: the time. We feel sometimes like we're little helpless creatures

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Speaker 1: in the midst of all of it. So maybe it's

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Speaker 1: just really nice to think that there's someone somewhere who

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Speaker 1: cares what you like. Specifically, you are seeing and experiencing

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Speaker 1: That's the gift that Fred Rogers gave to Christophe that night,

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Speaker 1: and maybe that's the gift he gave to all of us.

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Speaker 1: You know. I have this really, this weird question that's

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Speaker 1: been on my mind. Was I think a lot about

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Speaker 1: good people and what makes a good person, and so

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Speaker 1: much of what Fred Rogers was about was about ways

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Speaker 1: and systems and methods for being a good person. And

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Speaker 1: I I keep returning to wise and everyone like that.

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Speaker 1: I want to ask you, first, do you think of

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Speaker 1: yourself as a good person? I do, but I think

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Speaker 1: it's taken a lot of time and struggle and experiences

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Speaker 1: with not always being in the best person, interactions with

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Speaker 1: not always the best people, but then also the experience

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Speaker 1: of having genuine connection uh and experiences with people that

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Speaker 1: consider really good. And I think that has helped me

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Speaker 1: become a better person and someone I'm still trying to

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Speaker 1: be um because I guess I wonder. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: I have this obvious question, which is, why isn't everyone

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Speaker 1: like Fred Rogers like why? Why? Like I assume that

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Speaker 1: you don't think of yourself was being capable of being

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Speaker 1: what he was or doing what he does, not I

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Speaker 1: guess I want to know what you feel like in

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Speaker 1: your own life stands in your way. It's a really

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Speaker 1: good question. I don't know, you know, like why I

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Speaker 1: think that I just might not have the patience that

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Speaker 1: he had for people, you know, I think just the

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Speaker 1: um at least not always, you know. I think I

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Speaker 1: have my moments, and I've certainly been inspired by him

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Speaker 1: and this memory, and I love what I do for

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Speaker 1: a living. But for someone to be like that all

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Speaker 1: the time, to have everyone who's ever had an interaction

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Speaker 1: with you, to just feel seen and heard while also

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Speaker 1: like embraced and almost hugged in a way, even if

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Speaker 1: he wasn't doing that physically, I doubt that the people

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Speaker 1: in my life would say that I'm like that, you know,

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Speaker 1: um uh. But what gets in my way? You know?

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Speaker 1: I guess that I think, um, probably cynicism, you know.

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Speaker 1: I think I've struggled a lot with this question of like,

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Speaker 1: what is like just unconditional love and how do you

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Speaker 1: practice that even with with everybody. Yeah. So I'm working

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Speaker 1: on a podcast right now about my relationship with one

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Speaker 1: of the world's most wanted terrorist. And I had a

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Speaker 1: connection with this guy who was wanted by you know,

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Speaker 1: everyone in the world pretty much, the CIA, the State's Department,

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Speaker 1: the FBI, the African Union. He had a five million

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Speaker 1: dollar bounty on his head and I was the only

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Speaker 1: one I knew where he was. And he would call

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Speaker 1: me in the middle of the night just to chat

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Speaker 1: because he just wanted to connect with another human being

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Speaker 1: towards the end, and while he was hoping I could

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Speaker 1: help keep him alive. When I couldn't do that, we

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Speaker 1: would just talk and it started just a great scoop

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Speaker 1: for me. But then came this person that I couldn't

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Speaker 1: help but start caring about. And that gets really confusing,

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Speaker 1: you know, especially when it's somebody that has done terrible things,

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Speaker 1: you know, or supposedly done terrible things, or that's supposed

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Speaker 1: to be an enemy, or somebody that you hate, or

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Speaker 1: somebody that deserves to be killed. UM. And I find

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Speaker 1: all human beings, UM people, everyone you know is worthy

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Speaker 1: of being listened to and being and spoken to. It

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Speaker 1: doesn't mean taking all their b s. It doesn't mean,

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Speaker 1: like you know, set yourself up to be abused or

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Speaker 1: or or taken advantage of. UM. But I think everyone,

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Speaker 1: all any of us, just want us to be loved

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Speaker 1: and to be heard and to be seen and UM,

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Speaker 1: and I think that your presence is the greatest gift

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Speaker 1: you can give somebody. I just think that's what I believe.

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Speaker 1: It is just actually learning how to be genuinely present,

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Speaker 1: Like in that moment that he came down and sat

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Speaker 1: and just like looked me in the eye, asked me

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Speaker 1: genuine question and then just don't feel like he felt

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Speaker 1: he needed to be anywhere else. That's presence. And I

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Speaker 1: feel like when you can give that to another human,

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Speaker 1: that's the best gift you can give somebody. And I

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Speaker 1: think what keeps us and the second speak myself, what

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Speaker 1: keeps us from doing that is it's just really hard

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Speaker 1: to be present, you know. I think that we are

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Speaker 1: minds are scattered with our wants of what we think

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Speaker 1: we want, what our desires are, with the ways that

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Speaker 1: we think we're going to get it, our relationship to

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Speaker 1: the world, how we think the world perceives us. Um.

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Speaker 1: We care a lot about a lot of stuff that

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Speaker 1: usually isn't relevant. And I think that's what gets in

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Speaker 1: the way. I want to I want to ask you,

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Speaker 1: um about the world as it currently stands. And like

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Speaker 1: the last thing he did on television was a public

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Speaker 1: service announcement after nine eleven m that was the last

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Speaker 1: time we saw him on TV uh and he died

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Speaker 1: soon after that. And when I watched that footage, I

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Speaker 1: often feel like I'm watching a person who has ultimately

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Speaker 1: been outmatched by just the huge well of capacity of

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Speaker 1: for badness among people. And when I look at the

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Speaker 1: world today, it does seem like so much of that

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Speaker 1: badness has like gained energy and momentum, focus and force

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Speaker 1: and push. And I wonder, your journalist, your job is

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Speaker 1: to investigate all, to investigate the human condition via our

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Speaker 1: individual stories and the stories we pursue. And I wonder,

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Speaker 1: how do I even frame this question? Do you think

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Speaker 1: A do you think his impact can be felt? And

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Speaker 1: B do you think it's enough? God dense question? Um,

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Speaker 1: I think that it's up to us. Two. I think

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Speaker 1: it's up to us to allow his impact to be felt.

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Speaker 1: And what I mean by that is, look, eventually, we

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Speaker 1: can't be relying on Fred Rogers, especially after he's dead.

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Speaker 1: We have to be Fred Rogers. I mean, we're grown up,

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Speaker 1: you know, like I'm about to be forty. I was

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Speaker 1: watching Mr Rogers a kid. It's time for me to

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Speaker 1: be Mr Rogers. You know, it's time for all of

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Speaker 1: us me Mr Rogers especially now. It is crazy because

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Speaker 1: if we don't, then we we we really are up

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Speaker 1: Ship's creek, you know, like we we are in at

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Speaker 1: time right now where people are so cynical and scared

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Speaker 1: and frankly acting bananas, all of us. Whether you want

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Speaker 1: to blame the people that are making you bananas or

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Speaker 1: your bananas or whatever it is, um uh, but I

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Speaker 1: think we all just need those quiet moments of reflection

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Speaker 1: and it's our job to embody it. I mean, look,

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Speaker 1: we can't. That's another reason, like we can't we can't

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Speaker 1: idealize him either in a sense where like you know,

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Speaker 1: he's gone. What we have to do is take his

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Speaker 1: teachings and try to embody those ourselves so so you know,

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Speaker 1: we can evolve and become one of our our own

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Speaker 1: version of that love that he was able to embody,

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Speaker 1: because that is what I think the world could really

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Speaker 1: use right now. And we can't be looking for a

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Speaker 1: savior or or I think be just sad over one

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Speaker 1: like hey, there was one guy that was really good

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Speaker 1: at this once, Like why go and hang out with

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Speaker 1: a kid you've never met her? Family, and you know

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Speaker 1: in Russia, um who's having a tough time because because

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Speaker 1: you can, because you have the he had the ability to.

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Speaker 1: Christof still has a photo of that night. There's Fred

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Speaker 1: on the couch with X the owl, and there's Christoph beaming.

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Speaker 1: When you genuinely learn how to listen and you're genuinely

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Speaker 1: interested in somebody just because they're them, not because of

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Speaker 1: any other reason that I think I got from just

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Speaker 1: that interaction, I think that's what stayed with me. Screw

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Speaker 1: Moscow next time. When Fred tells us that we are special,

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Speaker 1: he meant that there's something deep down inside each of us,

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Speaker 1: not to some of us, but each of us without

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Speaker 1: which humanity cannot survive. Finding Fred is produced by Transmitter Media.

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Speaker 1: Our team is Dan O'donald, Jordan Bailey and Mattie Foley.

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Speaker 1: Our editor is Sarah Nis. The executive producer for Transmitter

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Speaker 1: Media is Greta Cohne. Executive producers at Fatherly are Simon

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Speaker 1: Isaacs and Andrew Berman. Thanks to the team at I

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Speaker 1: Heart Media, and also thanks to Christoph Putzel. Our show

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Speaker 1: is mixed by Rick Kwan, music by Blue Dot Sessions

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Speaker 1: and Alison Layton Brown. If you like what you're hearing,

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Speaker 1: rate the show, you the show, and tell a friend

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Speaker 1: I'm Carvel Wallace. Thank you for listening. M hm