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Speaker 1: Welcome into Northside Territory Foul Territory Networks Cubs Podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: Sahadev Sharma with my partner Patrick Mooney. We are your

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Speaker 1: Cubs beat writers over at the Athletic and Patrick, we

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Speaker 1: have at least the traveling group and the likely players

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Speaker 1: that will be on the opening day roster, and obviously

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Speaker 1: the big one that we'll get to right away.

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Speaker 2: Matt was told he is going to Japan.

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Speaker 1: You know, this isn't shocking, but it also there was

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Speaker 1: a question because of that injury, what did you hear

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Speaker 1: from Arizona and what was the message you got?

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Speaker 3: Well, I think it was it was gonna be one

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Speaker 3: of the last and biggest decisions, and that certainly played out.

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Speaker 3: I feel like when I tapped in for you in Mesa,

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Speaker 3: it was kind of like I went in thinking, is

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Speaker 3: he really gonna have enough time? Like are the Cubs

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Speaker 3: really gonna force it on the forty man roster? And

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Speaker 3: the message I got back was like, look, he's a

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Speaker 3: healthy player. This is the guy that they want to

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Speaker 3: be their third baseman. But then, as you know this group,

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Speaker 3: as they kind of talk and circle around these things,

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Speaker 3: I got indicasions that it could have been Kevin Alcntara

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Speaker 3: like that I thought was very interesting as they play

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Speaker 3: these things out of what if PCA runs into a wall,

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Speaker 3: you know, the first exhibition game, how are they gonna

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Speaker 3: cover center field? And I will give Alcantara propsman, that

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Speaker 3: guy has a great attitude, Like if you saw him

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Speaker 3: in the clubhouse, you'd be like, oh, this guy's making

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Speaker 3: the team. And he was probably just told he's staying home.

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Speaker 3: But I mean this as a total compliment, you know,

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Speaker 3: Like Shaw was very stonefaced the whole time. He packed,

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Speaker 3: very nico like, yes, exactly, it's told to pack Monday.

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Speaker 3: He did. Kevin was told to pack as well. There

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Speaker 3: was not two seats on the plane for both of them,

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Speaker 3: and so ultimately it was one of those things where

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Speaker 3: the likely outcome was Matt Shaw. We just had the

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Speaker 3: oblique issue. We had the Alex Bregman sweepstakes. We had

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Speaker 3: this kind of doomsday scenarios that they were kicking around.

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Speaker 3: But I think it's telling how much they think of

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Speaker 3: this guy that they sort of rushed him. He said, look,

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Speaker 3: I've been here since New Year's Eve, Like I'm ready

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Speaker 3: for this. I've been waiting my whole life for this,

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Speaker 3: but I don't know, not give a guy who has

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Speaker 3: thirty five games above Triple A at Triple A, never

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Speaker 3: made his major league debut before, did not have a

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Speaker 3: full spring training requires a forty man ad. I mean

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Speaker 3: that just shows you how high they are in this guy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I'm looking it up right now. Six

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Speaker 1: games in spring training, nineteen played appearances.

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Speaker 2: That's what he is going to head to Japan with.

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Speaker 1: That's not a lot for I mean if like I

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Speaker 1: think we brought this up before, like if you're talking

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Speaker 1: about Ian Happ, if you're talking about Dansby Swanson, it's

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Speaker 1: a very different situation.

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Speaker 2: Matt Shaw has never played a game in the big leagues.

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Speaker 1: He has he has thirty five games at the Triple

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Speaker 1: A level, thirty five one hundred and fifty two played appearances.

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Speaker 1: And they, I mean, they must really think highly of

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Speaker 1: him and makeup wise, right, They just they must think

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Speaker 1: he can handle it.

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Speaker 2: His body is obviously ready.

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Speaker 1: They would not push him if they had any physical concerns.

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Speaker 1: I think the mental part is what I think is

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Speaker 1: I'm seeing them like clearly give them a vote of

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Speaker 1: confidence that this guy is ready mentally for the big leagues.

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Speaker 1: I'm curious to see how he does. I try not

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Speaker 1: to look at spring training stats. He did fine. You know,

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Speaker 1: he looked like the guy that he's always looked like.

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Speaker 1: Maybe he's just that guy. Maybe that's who he is.

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Speaker 1: He's just this guy that you know, puts up like

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Speaker 1: well above average offensive numbers, plays a good enough defense,

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Speaker 1: doesn't strike out a ton, walks a decent amount. If

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Speaker 1: he's that guy that, you know, like, all that disappointment

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Speaker 1: about out not signing Alex Bregman goes out the window,

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Speaker 1: right when if you have this guy, if this is

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Speaker 1: your guy that you can kind of like trust to

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Speaker 1: handle at least one of thinfield spots, who knows like,

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Speaker 1: who knows what moves they need to make in the future,

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Speaker 1: who knows what the future holds. But I'm just saying,

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Speaker 1: like he's an infielder of the future. That's a big

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Speaker 1: deal for this team. I think they, you know, not

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Speaker 1: just for twenty twenty five, you talk about beyond. They

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Speaker 1: need pieces to build around that are going to be

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Speaker 1: around for a while. He seems like someone that they

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Speaker 1: really trust when it comes to that. I'm you know,

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Speaker 1: I want to see how he handles l A. I

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Speaker 1: mean Tokyo, but you know the Dodger staff, Uh, like

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Speaker 1: it's there's a lot going on, Like there's a this

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Speaker 1: is a big moment for him and how he how

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Speaker 1: he handles it all, and and what what you know

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Speaker 1: is going through his head right now. I think we'll

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Speaker 1: we'll tell us a lot as far as his future.

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Speaker 1: But you know, it's a nice moment for him. How

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Speaker 1: did he kind of did did you get a chance

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Speaker 1: to talk to him? I like you guys talked to

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Speaker 1: him after the decision was made, right, How how.

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Speaker 2: Was what was the reaction?

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Speaker 3: Uh? A couple of us spoke to him after Tuesday's

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Speaker 3: game before uh the team departed from Mesa for the airport,

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Speaker 3: and he was very matter of fact. I mean, you've

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Speaker 3: talked to him before. He is an impressive guy. He's

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Speaker 3: pretty sharp. That's been his reputation really like coming out

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Speaker 3: of high school going to Maryland that as someone who's

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Speaker 3: very focused, who's all about the details. And he just

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Speaker 3: sort of shrugged and said, you know, this is a

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Speaker 3: nice moment, but you know he's got to go out

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Speaker 3: there and prove it. He said, I haven't seen any

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Speaker 3: lineups for Game one yet. I think just to clarify

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Speaker 3: one thing because as you know, this rosters, the roster

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Speaker 3: scenarios have been confusing, and granted we get to our

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Speaker 3: editors love the roster projections, because our readers love roster projections,

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Speaker 3: you've been able to kind of milk it for but

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Speaker 3: it's a good format to like try to explain some

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Speaker 3: very complicated scenarios that you know, unless as long as

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Speaker 3: there's no like injury, he's on the opening day roster.

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Speaker 3: Just with how they structured it. Of fourteen position players,

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Speaker 3: you can only carry thirteen against the Dodgers, and one

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Speaker 3: of those fourteen is an emergency third catcher who they

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Speaker 3: hope does not touch the field at all during a

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Speaker 3: real game at the Tokyo Dome in Reese Maguire. So

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Speaker 3: Seaw is on it unless something unforeseen happens.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, all right, well that makes sense.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, it's a there's a lot of implications as

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Speaker 1: far as Rookie of the Year voting, extra draft, like

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Speaker 1: we can we can talk about that in the summer

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Speaker 1: if it becomes relevant. Right now, it's just like a

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Speaker 1: great moment for the kid, looking forward to seeing him

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Speaker 1: debut in Tokyo, and then you know how he performs

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Speaker 1: all season long. I think it's gonna be like, is

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Speaker 1: he the X factor of the season. No, I don't

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Speaker 1: think so, But you know, I think it's it's very

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Speaker 1: relevant because of how the Alex Bregman stuff played out

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Speaker 1: and how badly the front office kind of wanted to

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Speaker 1: get that done, and how they kind of saw that

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Speaker 1: as a moment for them. Like I said before, I

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Speaker 1: just think like, if he has a good season, it

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Speaker 1: just like eases a lot of their frustration of not

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Speaker 1: being able to get bregmant done. All right, Patrick, Well

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Speaker 1: move on to other players that made the roster. Before

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Speaker 1: we do that, Let's get to a quick break.

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Speaker 1: All right, Patrick, another infielder, I think this is one

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Speaker 1: of the better stories. These are all good stories, I guess,

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Speaker 1: but but this one Gauge workman, uh gauge tater workman,

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Speaker 1: he earns a spot with it. I mean, it was

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Speaker 1: a great spring. I just said, don't let's not take

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Speaker 1: too much away. But like certain players, they have to

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Speaker 1: they have to perform to to make it right.

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Speaker 2: And I think.

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Speaker 1: My first day in Arizona, Jesse Rodgers asked Craig Council

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Speaker 1: about Gauge Workman because he hit he hit a home run,

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Speaker 1: and I believe it was an opposite field home run.

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Speaker 1: He's a lefty, he's a big guy. He's like six

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Speaker 1: what four six six, He's a big dude, Like legit,

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Speaker 1: k yeah, and like you see him and you're like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's a that's an athlete. And he's you know, good

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Speaker 1: defensive infielder, third baseman, and you know Craig Counsel. We

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Speaker 1: we've talked to Craig Counsel now for over a year.

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Speaker 1: And if you can play defense, he will, He'll stick

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Speaker 1: with you, he'll trust you, he'll give you a shot.

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Speaker 1: This kid hit all spring long. I like this story.

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Speaker 1: You know, who knows through a five pick one slump

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Speaker 1: and you have to start wondering, you know, is he

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Speaker 1: gonna get enough at bats if he's a bench guy.

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Speaker 2: So many questions, but it's right now.

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Speaker 3: It's a nice story, And that, to me was part

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Speaker 3: of the uncertainty about Shaw. It was just the way

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Speaker 3: that Counsel raved about Workman's defense, and I had that

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Speaker 3: in the back of my head too, of like his

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Speaker 3: patience level goes through the roof if you can go

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Speaker 3: play defense every single day and we'll see where it goes.

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Speaker 3: I got to give a shout out to our buddy

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Speaker 3: Jordan Bastion of MLB dot com because he and I

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Speaker 3: we're waiting for Workmen, you know, coming off the field,

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Speaker 3: and we had a nice chat with him and Jordan

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Speaker 3: since I'm like, uh, Tater, what's what's the deal with that?

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Speaker 3: Where we said where we said, like, it's my middle name,

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Speaker 3: and Jordan's like, I know, that's why, that's why we're asking.

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Speaker 3: And it was a it was a it was just

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Speaker 3: a hilarious back and forth. Maybe you had to be there,

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Speaker 3: but it was. It was his grandfather's nickname. I think

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Speaker 3: someone had pronounced it mispronounced a name somewhere along the way.

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Speaker 3: Tater stuck uh and so Workman's dad. I was like, well,

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Speaker 3: Tater's a family as you know, family importance, and it's

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Speaker 3: a great baseball name. Well we'll go with Tater and

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Speaker 3: so Workman. Interestingly enough, the best man at his wedding

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Speaker 3: was Brennan Davis, the former Cubs prospect. They went to

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Speaker 3: high school together. Gage's dad, wid was prominent in like

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Speaker 3: kind of their local baseball community. The families became very close.

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Speaker 3: Gage's father was once drafted by the Cubs. I believe

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Speaker 3: he was drafted maybe four times. He pitched in the

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Speaker 3: Dodgers and Padres farm systems, So, like, you know, someone

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Speaker 3: who grew up around the game, who, Well, we'll have

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Speaker 3: to look into this if workman like sticks. But it's

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Speaker 3: kind of surprising he never really made a triple A

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Speaker 3: in the Tigers organization. I think it was most of

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Speaker 3: the last three years at double A. But this is

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Speaker 3: what the Cubs have really been searching for for a

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Speaker 3: long time. If they could get a left handed hitting

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Speaker 3: third baseman that's kind of been on their board for

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Speaker 3: a while now. And if I don't know, like you said,

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Speaker 3: it's spring training, who knows, But I think they're gonna

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Speaker 3: give him a pretty long leash and find ways to

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Speaker 3: like they think. Council's direct quote was like, he's a

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Speaker 3: functional piece on this roster. Maybe it's run into the

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Speaker 3: corner olefielders if they need a backup short stop for

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Speaker 3: whatever reason before Nico gets back play third, like an

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Speaker 3: interesting player. Just makes you wonder why you never got

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Speaker 3: a chance while the Tigers were We're building there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean he struck out a lot in the

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Speaker 1: mid he and he barely struck out this spring.

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Speaker 2: I have no clue if something changed.

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Speaker 1: I'll be honest when I say I just wasn't going

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Speaker 1: to dig in that far. If he if that strikeout

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Speaker 1: rate sticks in, you know, after a month or two,

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Speaker 1: then it's something worth digging into and seeing, like what's

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Speaker 1: he changed? Why why is this strikeout rate suddenly plummeted?

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Speaker 2: Right now?

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Speaker 1: It doesn't matter like there's this So Baseball Reference does

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Speaker 1: this thing where where they have opponent quality for spring training,

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Speaker 1: and his is at seven point one, which is basically.

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Speaker 2: Like a tick above double A.

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Speaker 1: But that's basically what everyone says, Like I was looking

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Speaker 1: up like other regulars like Pete groharm Strong or Dansby

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Speaker 1: Swanson or even Half, they're all around that, like a

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Speaker 1: tick above double A. That's just what you're gonna face

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Speaker 1: like that spring training. So it's really hard to evaluate

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Speaker 1: this stuff just just for comparison's sake, because he's a

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Speaker 1: hot name this spring. Cam Smith with astros, he he

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Speaker 1: had like a six point seven opponent quality right, so

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Speaker 1: worse like, and he just destroyed everyone, and everybody's anointing him, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, the greatest prospect ever, right.

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Speaker 2: And.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and he may very well be a really good

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Speaker 1: like a really good player. I'm not I'm not taking

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Speaker 1: that away from him. I'm just saying I don't know,

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Speaker 1: Like I don't know what any of.

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Speaker 2: These guys are.

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Speaker 1: I like, I this is what this is the biggest

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Speaker 1: problem with spring training. And I won't we we don't

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Speaker 1: need to like digress it and go into this. But

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Speaker 1: I see it on Twitter, and it's why part of

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Speaker 1: the reason why I probably need to stop. It's probably

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Speaker 1: a straw maend because not it's not a real concern

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Speaker 1: among Cubs fans, but I am seeing people say, like,

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Speaker 1: what's wrong with Kyle Tucker? It doesn't matter, Like it

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Speaker 1: doesn't matter. It's spring training. You know, remember Dansby Swanson

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Speaker 1: how awful he was his first spring training and then

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Speaker 1: he started, didn't he started that season like like ten

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Speaker 1: for twelve or something crazy, like he just got.

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Speaker 3: A huge for a huge debut with the Cups too.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, right, right, right, he was he like was like

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Speaker 1: six for his first eight something stupid like that, Like

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Speaker 1: he had a hit like it, you know, multi.

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Speaker 2: Hit every game for multiple days in a row.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so like I'm not going to go crazy

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Speaker 1: with with these spring stats. But it's a nice story

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Speaker 1: and like a cool name, uh, good ballplayer, all the

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Speaker 1: fun stuff. Let's see, let's see what happens. And I

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Speaker 1: agree with counsel what we said. That council said, like

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Speaker 1: he is, he's a functional piece of the puzzle. Like

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Speaker 1: it probably stunts his development. It probably, like you know,

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Speaker 1: he's not an everyday player. And maybe if they could

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Speaker 1: option him and and and tweak something and this swing

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Speaker 1: and misses is legit may be there triple A would

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Speaker 1: be really good for him.

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Speaker 2: Who knows.

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Speaker 1: All I know is that, like I you know, he's

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Speaker 1: made the team and like he is, he has some

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Speaker 1: sort of use here.

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Speaker 2: And I think that's that's a nice story.

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Speaker 1: Another one which you know, it not someone out of

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Speaker 1: the blue in the sense that he's pitched and produced

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Speaker 1: in the big leagues. Brad Keller makes the pitching staff.

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Speaker 1: Brad Keller is a Chicago cub. I you know he

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Speaker 1: opened eyes right away from that first outing. You say

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Speaker 1: not to take much away from stats. It's not stats.

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Speaker 1: It's when you're throwing ninety seven in your first outing

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Speaker 1: in the spring and you have a breaking ball it's like, wait,

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Speaker 1: what's going on here? How often did this dude sit

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Speaker 1: ninety seven, sit ninety six, ninety seven? Not that much?

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Speaker 1: Uh So, Yeah, it's a I don't know, I don't

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Speaker 1: know if this is a guy that changes the changes

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Speaker 1: the way the bullpend looks. But shoot, like, if you're

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Speaker 1: throwing like that, if you're pitching like that, you have

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Speaker 1: a chance to be one of those surprise bullpen arms

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Speaker 1: that the league takes notice of.

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Speaker 3: I'm with you, I think some of the stuff we

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Speaker 3: see in spring training on the pitching side can be

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Speaker 3: a little more instructive of just like particularly when I

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Speaker 3: mean I think that was what your first story when

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Speaker 3: he got down in spring training this year, of the

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Speaker 3: changes he made, kind of the backstory behind it, how

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Speaker 3: interested the Cubs were, Like, this is a guy that

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Speaker 3: even though it was only a minor league deal, even

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Speaker 3: though it'll only convert to one point five million dollars,

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Speaker 3: like this was like a targeted guy they wanted this

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Speaker 3: offseason for a specific role. And the way council talks

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Speaker 3: about it is come out of the pen. He can

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Speaker 3: pitch multiple innings, but they're looking at shorter stints and

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Speaker 3: maybe he does well with that you go to higher

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Speaker 3: leverage situation.

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Speaker 2: So I.

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Speaker 3: Said to Craig, I said, so like an outgetter, and

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Speaker 3: he liked that. He's like right back at you. So

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Speaker 3: it was the warm embrace of a Craig Council one

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Speaker 3: liner there. So yeah, look, it's an interesting guy, particularly

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Speaker 3: you know the Royals at that time when he came up,

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Speaker 3: and he had some good seasons too, like he had

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Speaker 3: some really nice performances for them, but it was not

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Speaker 3: the most like pitching savvy organization. And then so you

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Speaker 3: know from there to go to the White Sox, you know,

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Speaker 3: the worst team in the history of baseball, and they

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Speaker 3: DFAU in May. Well, then you wind up in Boston,

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Speaker 3: a Red Sox operation that is overseen by Craig Breslo,

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Speaker 3: who had built the Cubs pitching infrastructure here or had

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Speaker 3: a major role in it. So you can start piecing

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Speaker 3: like something together here. I mean, he's six', five you

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Speaker 3: see the. Vlo now you, know they can introduce some

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Speaker 3: new stuff with, him like, again we don't, know but

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Speaker 3: it sounds like they're gonna give him a really long

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Speaker 3: runway here and we don't know exactly when he'll be

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Speaker 3: added to the. Roster like, THEORETICALLY i think he, could you,

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Speaker 3: know pitching, exhibitions maybe be an active whatever sort of

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Speaker 3: arrangement they, Have like they talk about him as he earned.

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Speaker 1: It, yeah and like you, said LIKE i feel like

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Speaker 1: we can take a little bit more for pitching in the.

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Speaker 2: Spring there's always big, surprises.

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Speaker 1: You, know if you're going to look for, one and

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Speaker 1: like kind of feel like semi good about. IT i

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Speaker 1: think he's someone you kind of like circle and pay

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Speaker 1: attention to early in the. Season see if see if

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Speaker 1: what he did in the spring kind of carries over

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Speaker 1: real quick before we wrap. Up what so that means

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Speaker 1: it's going to be two forty man Moves Brad, Keller Matt, Shaw.

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Speaker 2: What indication do you?

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Speaker 1: HAVE i think there's one obvious one with who stayed,

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Speaker 1: Back BUT i, like what what are you reading In?

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Speaker 2: Arizona what kind of vibe did you?

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Speaker 3: Get definitely that it seems Like Keegan thompson is on

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Speaker 3: his way. Out, however they choreograph, THAT i, mean not

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Speaker 3: making the travel roster when they take seventeen. Pitchers he's

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Speaker 3: out of minor league, options so they don't have to

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Speaker 3: make a move on you, know in the middle Of.

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Speaker 3: March yet whatever day it, is but that is, coming

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Speaker 3: SO i would Expect hegan sent to. End and then

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Speaker 3: part of this too is like waiting to see who gets, hurt, Right, yeah,

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Speaker 3: yeah that's that's Like counsel's big thing And jed as

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Speaker 3: well of like let's not make a decision until we have.

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Speaker 3: TO i would also think, too there's probably a guy

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Speaker 3: on the on the pitching side you could, move probably

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Speaker 3: someone back In. Arizona so this whole we'll get into

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Speaker 3: it in the next. Episode but like this whole, process

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Speaker 3: you were there like hearing them kind of game out

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Speaker 3: scenarios and what it could be and all the roster.

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Speaker 3: Implications it's it's been a, lot SO i think they

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Speaker 3: will see when once they kind of roll out of

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Speaker 3: bed and head towards The Tokyo, dome they can keep

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Speaker 3: just kind of reassessing Into council's, point like that's what

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Speaker 3: they do during the. Season it's every. Day it's just

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Speaker 3: that you're locked into these thirty one while they're, there

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Speaker 3: and there's not that shuttle From TRIPLE A iowa. Running

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Speaker 3: it's like those are the thirty. One you got figure,

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Speaker 3: it figure it, out and like pray that there's no

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Speaker 3: extra inning games or you, know crazy injuries or like

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Speaker 3: copy occurrences on the streets of Token.

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Speaker 2: Oh, DEAR i don't even want to know what those would.

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Speaker 1: Be all, Right, patrick we'll be back at it is

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Speaker 1: shortly From. Tokyo and, yeah thanks so much for. Listening

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Speaker 1: this is North Side. Territory make sure to, rate review and.

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Speaker 1: Subscribe subscribe to the YouTube, Channel subscribe To The athletic

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Speaker 1: Where patrick AND i are on top of all Things.

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Speaker 1: Cubs we appreciate all of you for. Listening, thanks and take.

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Speaker 2: Care