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Speaker 1: Hello the Internet, and welcome to this episode of The

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Speaker 1: Weekly Zeitgeist. These are some of our favorite segments from

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Speaker 1: this week, all edited together into one NonStop infotainment laugh stravaganza. Yeah, So,

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Speaker 1: without further ado, here is the Weekly Zeitgeist.

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Speaker 2: Miles. We are thrilled to be joined in our third

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Speaker 2: seat by a senior reporter covering racial equity at the

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Speaker 2: Center for Public Integrity. She's been a full Bright Fellow,

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Speaker 2: a Fellow with the International Women's Media Foundation, and Innovations

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Speaker 2: in Food and Agriculture Fellow with the National Press Foundation.

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Speaker 2: And she's the host of the third season of The Heist,

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Speaker 2: which is incredible focuses on the long documented history of

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Speaker 2: government discrimination against black farmers. Please welcome to the show.

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Speaker 2: April Simpson, April Welcome, April Welcome.

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Speaker 3: I'm really glad to be here.

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Speaker 2: Happy Halloween. Happy. Yeah do you celebrate?

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Speaker 3: I don't, but I have a daughter now and he

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Speaker 3: will be.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, okay, So hold thanks six months. Okay.

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Speaker 4: So I'm a nine month old and we're doing the

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Speaker 4: same thing, and part the whole time, I was really

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Speaker 4: conflicted about costumes because I'm like, this child is not

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Speaker 4: selecting this costume and we're now reducing it to a

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Speaker 4: live action doll. But but I mean, if seeing him

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Speaker 4: in a woody costume didn't bring a tear to my eye,

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Speaker 4: you know, wow will Yeah, that was the one that

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Speaker 4: was very flammable by the way that I was Okay, dude,

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Speaker 4: this woody costume it was. That was the one that

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Speaker 4: was like reeking of like petroleum. I'm pretty sure it's

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Speaker 4: like the most synthetic fabrics that have ever been made.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, so how is your daughter liking the first Halloween?

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Speaker 3: Well, first, congrats to you too, Oh, thank you, thank you.

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Speaker 3: I think he's gonna love it. He's going to be

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Speaker 3: a butterfly. Wow, it could be fun. Yeah, but I think,

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Speaker 3: you know, babies bring so much joy to other people,

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Speaker 3: so that yeah, kind of the fun of it too.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that is true, because there's no one sees a

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Speaker 4: cute baby dressed up and goes like that's so trite,

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Speaker 4: a nice try, Yeah, what a contrived outshit this is.

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Speaker 2: It's just it's always like, oh.

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Speaker 4: Like I remember I went somewhere else and someone was like,

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Speaker 4: there's a baby here dressed like toy story.

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Speaker 2: I guess, yeah, we'll take that. Oh, that's so cute, amazing,

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Speaker 2: those sound amazing. Congratulations to you both, and congratulations to

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Speaker 2: every living human with a beating heart that runs into

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Speaker 2: you on Halloween and gets to see you children and

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Speaker 2: they're amazing Halloween costumes. Absolutely? What is something from your

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Speaker 2: search history?

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Speaker 5: Math jokes?

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Speaker 2: Math jokes?

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Speaker 5: A math joke?

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Speaker 2: What's a math like? Give me hit me with one?

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Speaker 5: Okay, the I says to the pie, be irrational?

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Speaker 2: Why says to the pie irrational?

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Speaker 5: And the pie says BG. The pie says back, get real.

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Speaker 2: This rational umber? Oh?

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Speaker 5: Come on, you know the imaginary number?

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Speaker 4: I Oh, okay, I'm a ha ha love that math joke.

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Speaker 5: The uh one of the okay Samue Obayin has better

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Speaker 5: math jokes than the ones I found on the internet.

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Speaker 5: But math joke cartoons?

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Speaker 2: Wait? Wait, what got you onto math jokes?

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Speaker 5: Somebody told me that they don't like comedy, they just

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Speaker 5: like math.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 6: It was like some guy was like nagging me in

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Speaker 6: a in the grocery storeline.

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Speaker 4: Why are you doing like a tight five about grocery

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Speaker 4: lines or something?

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Speaker 5: I mean, okay, let's be real.

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Speaker 6: I'm a out of commission comedian right now, performing right now,

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Speaker 6: which means that I'm performing.

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Speaker 2: Everywhere, everywhere. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 6: Like I'm sorry, world, that's just what happens. Just trying

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Speaker 6: jokes out on everybody.

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Speaker 2: Wait, so you ask someone randomly and lie you like, hey,

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Speaker 2: like you wanna hear a joke?

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Speaker 6: Basically basically that's what I'm doing now. I just like

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Speaker 6: I say a dumb, funny thing like, oh, I guess

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Speaker 6: this line's gonna just keep going.

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Speaker 2: And I don't feel that a geometry Is that a

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Speaker 2: geometry joke?

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Speaker 6: No, it gets there, you know, like I just like,

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Speaker 6: keep at it, you know, just double down, like it's

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Speaker 6: just a wrapping around corners, all the corners.

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Speaker 5: I'm sure there's a math joke to plug in here.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well famously keep going. Yeah, and in geometry they

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Speaker 2: just keep going.

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Speaker 6: And going and pie goes and goes forever. And the

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Speaker 6: guy was like, I like math, just not jokes, And

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Speaker 6: I was like, what the what.

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Speaker 2: The fuck are you talking about? Man? What the I

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Speaker 2: don't know if that person, you know, they were just

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Speaker 2: the person like.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, is he telling me to stop making nice?

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Speaker 2: I just don't.

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Speaker 4: I love that binary though it's math or humor, pick one.

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Speaker 4: It's like, I don't know, but I guess why wasn't

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Speaker 4: the geometry teacher at school because she sprained her angle.

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Speaker 2: You like that one. You like that guy and he's

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Speaker 2: like crying. It's so like, oh fuck ah, you write that.

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Speaker 5: This moment has changed me, right right right?

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Speaker 2: I love it. I like math? Okay, like was he

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Speaker 2: my seven year old son? Sort of thing. My seven

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Speaker 2: year old son would say to me, like, I try

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Speaker 2: and make him laugh and he's like, I like math, dad,

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Speaker 2: Oh jokes. That's kind of fucked up.

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Speaker 4: That's actually probably the most scathing response you could give,

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Speaker 4: where you're like, honestly, I like math.

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Speaker 2: Better than whatever the fuck this is.

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Speaker 1: I know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: I was like, man, come on, man, I thought I've.

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Speaker 2: Had a baby. I'm please, man, I haven't.

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Speaker 4: I haven't gone up in like months a little.

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Speaker 2: He just burst into tears and he's like, fuck, fuck,

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry, Okay, I didn't know. I didn't fuck what

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Speaker 2: the fuck?

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Speaker 5: That's when I dropped the fork lift on him.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's exactly. Hey, Blake, why don't you tell us

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Speaker 2: something that you think is overrated? Yeah? I had here.

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Speaker 7: Written down the heat and I'm like, is are we

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Speaker 7: talking about pat Riley? But of course not. I'm talking

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Speaker 7: about the heat in your house where I for years

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Speaker 7: thought that heat cost about four dollars and fifty cents

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Speaker 7: per minute to run. So I was like, in gas

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Speaker 7: money on your gas bill. So and I lived in

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Speaker 7: la for forever, so I would never I would be like,

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Speaker 7: let's just throw on sweatshirts or coat. And then I

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Speaker 7: started living with my now wife and she was like,

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Speaker 7: this isn't the right way to live, and so then

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Speaker 7: I started turning it on. You're also living on the

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Speaker 7: East coast in it was clear breeze this morning, different temperatures, yeah, correct,

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Speaker 7: And when we turn it on, if you haven't used

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Speaker 7: the heat and a while, there's generally a lot of

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Speaker 7: like dust and I don't know, mouse bones and there,

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Speaker 7: and I'm allergic to some of that.

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Speaker 2: So allergic to mouse, like I don't.

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Speaker 7: It's not mice is a full you know, out of

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Speaker 7: the garage mouse. It's fine, but it's bone.

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Speaker 2: Smoked a whole mouse this morning. I didn't. Yah, we

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Speaker 2: is right off the bone.

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Speaker 7: Had a full mouse and yeah, no, it generally gives

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Speaker 7: me allergies. So I just think it's over. I like

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Speaker 7: to bundle up. I prefer or a blanket and like

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Speaker 7: a nice comfy hoodie in home. Yeah I do, and

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Speaker 7: which yeah, and I'm right. I was about to say,

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Speaker 7: I realized that's strange. It's not strange, it's blake.

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Speaker 2: Will you do me a favor? Go ahead right now?

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Speaker 2: Will you wait? Yeah? I'm right.

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Speaker 4: Okay, is the heat on right now at your place?

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Speaker 2: No? No, it can't be.

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Speaker 4: And you said it was thirty degrees this morning.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, but it's gone up to about forty nine.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 4: Will you touch the tip of your nose and tell

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Speaker 4: me if that's warm or cold?

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Speaker 2: Right now?

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Speaker 7: I can't feel it. I can't even tell it. It

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Speaker 7: just broke off. Oh yeah, fuck, that's like snowman.

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Speaker 4: That's always when I know the house is too cold,

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Speaker 4: is when the tip of my nose gets cold. I'm like, now,

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Speaker 4: let me I don't need to have all this shit on.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, it's funny.

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Speaker 2: It is someone who loves to wear like warm, like

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Speaker 2: cold weather clothing just for some reason.

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Speaker 4: I get in my house, I'm like, do I need

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Speaker 4: to wear a parka on my couch?

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Speaker 2: I don't know, but hey, yeah, each their own.

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Speaker 7: When I was a kid, we I but we grew

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Speaker 7: up like, never want it for anything, you know, grew up.

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Speaker 7: My my dad had a good job. And I'm saying

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Speaker 7: this because of what I'm about to say. Take those

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Speaker 7: silver spoons out of your mouth real quick.

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Speaker 2: I can't hear you. I can't.

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Speaker 7: They're actually welded to my teeth. My teeth instead of fillings,

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Speaker 7: I'd have silver swimmings melted down. I've formed the bowlers

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Speaker 7: and we just I slept like in the a converted

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Speaker 7: attic which had air conditioning but no heat. So when

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Speaker 7: I would come home from college, win or break, I

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Speaker 7: would sleep in a coat.

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Speaker 2: You know what.

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Speaker 7: That's probably why I don't give a shit about heat,

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Speaker 7: because I did it when I was young. I was

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Speaker 7: able to sleep in a coat. Why can't the woman

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Speaker 7: I love more than anything on earth suffer along with me?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? No, she'll fingers and tell many people about you. Huh.

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Speaker 2: It just kind of kept you up in that attic. No, no, And.

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Speaker 7: It was they wouldn't come up until my plates started

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Speaker 7: piling up outside the door and feed me, Yeah, the

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Speaker 7: little sloths.

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Speaker 4: Or if we had company over and they would blindfold

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Speaker 4: me and give me my happy juice.

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Speaker 7: Yes, yes, And I met the broom once, the broom

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Speaker 7: that they used to hit the ceiling and say, sorry,

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Speaker 7: we have rats. Every time i'd sneeze or something.

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Speaker 2: We have rats, I said, The mice bones are rattling

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Speaker 2: again up there. Hence who turned the heat? You got

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Speaker 2: allergic to mice bones because they were your only friends

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Speaker 2: for so long? But they were they were also they

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Speaker 2: were also from a physiological No, it does that in

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Speaker 2: the mental state.

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Speaker 7: And also if i'd like break a bone trying to escape,

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Speaker 7: I would make a splint out of their bones.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, too weird, just bone supporting bones? Why not sometimes together?

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Speaker 2: You know?

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Speaker 7: Thank you, m M exactly.

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Speaker 2: What's uh? What's something you think is underrated? Okay? Two things.

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Speaker 8: Stove top espresso, which I think is just like the percolators.

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Speaker 8: They're just great.

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Speaker 2: Oh that metal thing, right, yeah yeah, the metal thing,

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Speaker 2: yeah yeah, yeah, I think there.

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Speaker 8: I think there. I think it's better than French press.

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Speaker 8: I think it's better than a pour over. You know,

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Speaker 8: it might not be better than like one hundred year

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Speaker 8: old French machine or something, but I think it's the

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Speaker 8: best juga choo, you know. And then the other thing

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Speaker 8: I like that I think is underrated are the cheapy

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Speaker 8: headphones that you get from flight attendants on flights because

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Speaker 8: they always come in handy at the exact time when

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Speaker 8: you can't find your other shit.

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Speaker 2: Oh, it's like you're like, wait.

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Speaker 8: A minute, I have one of these in my purse,

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Speaker 8: and then you need it and you have it and those.

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Speaker 4: Are my Yeah, it's for I'm like such a headphone nerd.

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Speaker 4: Like I'm like, I got my own cans, thank you

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Speaker 4: so much because the fidelity is way too fucked up

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Speaker 4: from my ears. But hey, maybe maybe my mother would

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Speaker 4: like it because she doesn't care about how shit sounds.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, it is.

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Speaker 4: I never thought of it as like so of like

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Speaker 4: having like a package of Kleenex or something too, where

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Speaker 4: you're like headphones, Wait, I got I know.

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Speaker 2: I have a pile of them from every flight I go.

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Speaker 4: On exactly how I will be less stuck up and

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Speaker 4: I will accept them gleefully.

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Speaker 2: You just take them as your backup, right right. Some

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Speaker 2: of them break like one and a half uses into

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Speaker 2: a life cycle, but sometimes like that, that's not a rule,

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Speaker 2: and sometimes they'll last you a year. You know, they'll

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Speaker 2: just be you get the the real ones that are

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Speaker 2: able to kind of stick together. I thought stuff Top

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Speaker 2: Espresso was the stuff top stuff and brand expanding into

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Speaker 2: the world espresso. So I'm very glad to hear that

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Speaker 2: that's not what's happening. Just add water to like the powder.

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Speaker 2: There it is and microwave it.

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Speaker 8: Oh good god, you thought I mean Ethiopian. I would never.

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Speaker 2: Serious about the coffee. That's that's where my American brain went.

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Speaker 2: Of course, of course, of course, so it's probably in

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Speaker 2: a box, the stuff top espresso. It's like, what aisle

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Speaker 2: is that in? Where do I find that? All right, well,

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Speaker 2: let's uh, let's take a quick break and we'll come

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Speaker 2: back and talk about presidents creating foreign policy based on

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Speaker 2: some movies they just saw. And we're back. We're back,

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Speaker 2: and I guess to kick us off, i'd just be

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Speaker 2: curious to hear a little bit more about your background, April.

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Speaker 2: What kind of stories did you cover prior to this?

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Speaker 2: How do you get to this story? Because I personally

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Speaker 2: hear agriculture, and my brain it doesn't turn off, but

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Speaker 2: it assumes that's somebody else's story to pay attention to.

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Speaker 2: But then this one was so good, and it seems like,

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Speaker 2: base on some of your credentials, that agriculture is kind

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Speaker 2: of a sweet spot for you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I I'd say I almost fell into it because

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Speaker 3: at my job prior to coming to Center for Public Integrity,

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Speaker 3: I covered rural issues and really had the opportunity to

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Speaker 3: shape that beat as I saw fit. And you know,

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Speaker 3: at that time Trump was president, there were like subsidies

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Speaker 3: basically that were given to farmers when there was a

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Speaker 3: trade war with China, right to help keep them on

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Speaker 3: their feed. And there was you know, investigative reporting that

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Speaker 3: showed most of that money, nearly all of that money

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Speaker 3: went to white farmers, and some of that just has

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Speaker 3: to do with the way, like the structure of the system.

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Speaker 3: So I got just into role issues reporting into agriculture

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Speaker 3: as like a beat within my beat while I was

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Speaker 3: at my previous job, and during that time also learned

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Speaker 3: more about the history of discrimination at USDA. I learned

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Speaker 3: against black farmers and other farmers of color as well,

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Speaker 3: and you know, learn more about Pickford versus Clickman was,

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Speaker 3: which was this big class action lawsuit black farmers were successful,

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Speaker 3: and then the I guess the person installment in the

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Speaker 3: late nineties, nineteen ninety nine, and doing that work, you know,

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Speaker 3: led me to CPI and trying to like not sound

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Speaker 3: super wonky about it, but not go Wonk and hearing

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Speaker 3: a farmer who actually recently passed away. His names Eddie Slaughter. He's, oh, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: he passed away like end of September. It just happened.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sad to hear that. Yeah that.

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Speaker 4: I mean, like, this story is so it like it

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Speaker 4: touches intersect it with so many issues that the United

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Speaker 4: States has been the cause of and never the solution to.

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Speaker 2: And it's the whole journey that.

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Speaker 4: You sort of take listeners on is really fantastic because,

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Speaker 4: like Jack said, like when I hear, like when I

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Speaker 4: hear people talking about big agriculture, I hear about big

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Speaker 4: agriculture and factory farming and farm subsidies. But I'm like, yeah,

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Speaker 4: I don't know, it's just like that one industry, like

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Speaker 4: the government is the one being like the money hose

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Speaker 4: will never turn off for some of you, right, And

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Speaker 4: then really beginning to zoom out to really understand the

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Speaker 4: entirety of it, because in my mind, I'm like, it's

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Speaker 4: probably like you just assume it's like it's probably like

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Speaker 4: five companies doing everything. When you lose sight of sort

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Speaker 4: of what these origin stories are and you go back to,

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Speaker 4: you know, the early twentieth century in Oklahoma and how

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Speaker 4: a lot of these farming, these black farming communities were thriving,

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Speaker 4: you know, And we've talked about like Black Wall Street

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Speaker 4: on this show and just sort of the whole history there,

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Speaker 4: But can you kind of just like sort of paint

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Speaker 4: this picture, because I think more than even talking about,

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Speaker 4: like we're going to talk about what's happening now, but

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Speaker 4: I think it's really important for people to understand how

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Speaker 4: prosperous black farming was in the United States, to really

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Speaker 4: get an understanding of like the tragedy that has been

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Speaker 4: occurring ever since then.

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Speaker 2: Just to refresh people, Black Wall Street was Tulsa, Oklahoma,

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Speaker 2: like this boom time, like all black or you know,

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Speaker 2: prominently black community where business was just thriving, families were

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Speaker 2: getting rich. And because they're being left to operate a

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Speaker 2: community on their own without a lot of white supremacy

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Speaker 2: coming in and you know, using the tools of systemic

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Speaker 2: oppression to crush them and then people Obviously this is

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Speaker 2: a simplified way of saying it, but like the what

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Speaker 2: white supremacy came in and burnt the town to the

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Speaker 2: ground and like raised like literally raised the community in

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Speaker 2: Oklahoma but yeah, totally a story that I didn't know

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Speaker 2: was that not far away. Also in Oklahoma around the

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Speaker 2: same time, there was a similarly thriving community that you

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Speaker 2: talked about April.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we talked about Bowley, Oklahoma, which is where the

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Speaker 3: main character of the podcast is from, Nate Bradford, and

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Speaker 3: it was in some ways like a country version of

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Speaker 3: that Tulsa. It was a thriving black community that was

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Speaker 3: full of folks who came from the Deep South escaping

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Speaker 3: Jim Crow around the turn of the century and trying

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Speaker 3: to you know, get get a piece of land and

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Speaker 3: be free. And a lot of those folks ended up

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Speaker 3: settling in Bowley because there was a railroad that was

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Speaker 3: being developed and going from Oklahoma to Arkansas, so it

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Speaker 3: was just, you know, a good place to be and

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Speaker 3: that brought a lot of folks through there. So they settled,

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Speaker 3: you know, in and around Bowley. They were able to

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Speaker 3: buy land be a part of this community that was

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Speaker 3: for four black folks, by black folks, so you know,

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Speaker 3: answering to local government leadership and everything that was done

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Speaker 3: was in the interest of the people who were there,

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Speaker 3: who were majority black, and a lot of those folks

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Speaker 3: Cotton was huge. So a lot of them were cotton farmers.

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Speaker 3: Some of them were also in cattle farming, and Bully

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Speaker 3: ended up and they really paid for Bully, right, Their

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Speaker 3: money was what was making the town prosperous, and Bowley

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Speaker 3: ended up being hugely successful. It had colleges, it had

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Speaker 3: grocery stores, it had banks, It had what is believed

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Speaker 3: to be the first black nationally chartered bank in the country,

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Speaker 3: which is huge. And yeah, I mean that ended up

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Speaker 3: changing for a number of reasons, but Bully it was

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Speaker 3: one of fifty black towns at the time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's just so so devastating to the central

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Speaker 2: narrative of white supremacy, like the existence of this thriving

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Speaker 2: town that like if white supremacists all how this town

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Speaker 2: to exist, is able to thrive and have this amazing community,

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Speaker 2: and also like kind of devastating to some of the

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Speaker 2: central tenets of capitalists, like individualism and capitalism where there's

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Speaker 2: this you know, we we've talked about community action and

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Speaker 2: how you know, Black communities and you know, indigenous communities

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Speaker 2: are some of the best models that we have of

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Speaker 2: like how you know, communities that take care of themselves

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Speaker 2: and start their own you know, circular communities and yeah,

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Speaker 2: so it runs against the central coordinarrative of the American

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Speaker 2: mainstream in a lot of ways that are probably scary

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Speaker 2: to powerful people. Right.

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Speaker 4: It's it's also like like hearing about that era too,

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Speaker 4: where you know, these these communities are thriving and here

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Speaker 4: like that the change came once you know, like once

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Speaker 4: statehood occurred and now Oklahoma was going to be like

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Speaker 4: basically get like the other states that were like enacting

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Speaker 4: these Jim Crow laws. And now you had these communities

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Speaker 4: that were for the most part able to do whatever

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Speaker 4: they had to mostly free from any kind of like

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Speaker 4: racial interference that suddenly now they're seeing segregation and they're

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Speaker 4: seeing all these laws that are like are completely changing

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Speaker 4: the way they live. What was like from that moment on,

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Speaker 4: because I think this is this is what becomes really

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Speaker 4: interesting too, is this is sort of like the that

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Speaker 4: was sort of like the height of things and now

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Speaker 4: we begin to see the deterioration of these communities and

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Speaker 4: the dispossession of land. What was like can after these

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Speaker 4: Jim Crow laws were enacted, what sort of like the

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Speaker 4: kind of next sort of beats that happened that are

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Speaker 4: kind of that begins sort of this momentum even further.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so Oklahoma became a state nineteen oh seven, it

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Speaker 3: starts passing these Gym Crow laws. But Bully did thrive

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Speaker 3: for a little bit longer. But then there were a

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Speaker 3: lot of economic things that happened. Right There was the

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Speaker 3: Great Depression, There was a bull evil that chewed up

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Speaker 3: the cotton. There was the Agricultural Adjustment Act of in

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Speaker 3: the thirties that limited the amount of cotton a farmer

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Speaker 3: could produce those that were sharecropper, and folks farmers got

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Speaker 3: money to help them through that, but folks that were

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Speaker 3: sharecroppers may not have seen any of that money. And

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Speaker 3: black folks were kind of limited in what they could grow.

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Speaker 3: So all those things led to the decline of Bully.

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Speaker 3: A lot of the folks there, and like the local

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Speaker 3: historians say that even though there was this Jim Crow

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Speaker 3: violence happening outside of Bowley, not even that far outside

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Speaker 3: of Bully, because there were sundowntowns very close, it Bully felt,

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Speaker 3: you know, kind of protected, but it's still that fear,

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Speaker 3: that violence that's happening just outside. All these things came

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Speaker 3: together and encouraged folks to move on to other places.

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Speaker 4: And then like I guess you know, part of like

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Speaker 4: the whole you know, the focus of this season is

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Speaker 4: talking about just the decline and discrimination in black farming

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Speaker 4: and black farmers have had to face. Can you like

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Speaker 4: there's some pretty staggering statistics. I think people should kind

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Speaker 4: of like hear first, like as we dive into this

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Speaker 4: is what, like what was the state of black farmers

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Speaker 4: like in its prime as opposed to right now, just

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Speaker 4: so we can give ourselves an idea of like how

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Speaker 4: aggressive this process has.

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Speaker 3: Been so around the turn of the century when we know,

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Speaker 3: you know, obviously coming out of slavery, there were a

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Speaker 3: great number of black farmers and me we know, for example,

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Speaker 3: there's a study that found black farmers lost three hundred

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Speaker 3: and twenty six billion in land and wealth from nineteen

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Speaker 3: twenty to nineteen ninety seven, which is a huge, huge number.

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Speaker 3: And we know that the number of black farmers has

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Speaker 3: dropped since nineteen hundred, so that's that's a pretty big

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Speaker 3: one now as well, black farmers now are only about

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Speaker 3: one point four percent of all farmers, suggest.

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Speaker 2: A tiny number, and that that was not the case

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Speaker 2: and like leading up to the nineteen twenties was not

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Speaker 2: like one point four percent.

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Speaker 3: No, it was black folks had you know, we're much

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Speaker 3: greater in number, and we're also you know, significant landowners

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Speaker 3: as well.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and the way the government accomplished this is kind

436
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Speaker 2: of a thing. We've you know, the systemic economic forces,

437
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Speaker 2: economic racism, and it blends in more easily when they

438
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:54,560
Speaker 2: can just say, oh, well, you know, there was a

439
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:57,119
Speaker 2: bad run of bull weavils or something like that, and

440
00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:00,480
Speaker 2: not focusing on well, in white communities, when there's a

441
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 2: you know, bed string of crops because of all weevils,

442
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:07,120
Speaker 2: the government comes in and turns on the money hose, right,

443
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:11,040
Speaker 2: But in this case, there's just a different standard of

444
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 2: one to intervene and how easy it is to get

445
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:18,520
Speaker 2: government assistants and then like what happens once you get

446
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 2: that government assistance.

447
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:24,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean obviously there's racial violence that had a

448
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:29,480
Speaker 3: pardon this, but also subsidies, for example, are more helpful

449
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:33,280
Speaker 3: to farmers that are larger landowners or farmers who are

450
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:37,159
Speaker 3: growing certain crops, and black farmers, you know, tend to

451
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 3: be smaller guys, so they're not going to get as

452
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:43,320
Speaker 3: much money from those subsidy programs. The USDA, for example,

453
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:46,119
Speaker 3: is a lender of last resort, and that means you

454
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:49,239
Speaker 3: had to get rejected from other agencies, other banks in

455
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:52,280
Speaker 3: order to get a loan from them. And there's this

456
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:55,959
Speaker 3: long documented history showing that black farmers have had a

457
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,800
Speaker 3: tougher time getting those loans, and when they get those loans,

458
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:00,719
Speaker 3: they're not as much as they would have wanted them

459
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,920
Speaker 3: to be, or maybe they're delayed so that they don't

460
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 3: come when the farmer might need it for planting, they

461
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:09,000
Speaker 3: come much later, and then that kind of has a

462
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:10,320
Speaker 3: chain reaction to it.

463
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:14,040
Speaker 4: Right, And yeah, like in this, like in this telling

464
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:16,119
Speaker 4: of it or just like this, you know, examination of

465
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:22,719
Speaker 4: the industry, you just realize that the USDA is doing

466
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 4: some of the most vile shit, like in terms of

467
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:29,919
Speaker 4: disenfranchising these farmers or putting them essentially into like a

468
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 4: debt trap.

469
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 2: To dispossess their land.

470
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:35,840
Speaker 4: And I know, like it's like you'll never find a

471
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:39,360
Speaker 4: document that says this is our mandate as the USDA.

472
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 4: But when you look at how the USDA was interacting

473
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:47,120
Speaker 4: with black farmers that were looking for loans and things

474
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:48,639
Speaker 4: like that, it's as wild how so many of the

475
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:50,439
Speaker 4: people that you spoke to were sort of saying like

476
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:52,920
Speaker 4: the second I took that loan was basically the end.

477
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 4: Like when I began to rely on the USDA and

478
00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:00,240
Speaker 4: the just the hoops and things that people have to

479
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:03,159
Speaker 4: jump through just for the simplest things is really like

480
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:06,240
Speaker 4: mind blowing, Like can you kind of just paint a

481
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:09,119
Speaker 4: picture for people of sort of how the U like

482
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:11,359
Speaker 4: how this game is set up with the USDA of

483
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 4: how like, because I think normal people would be like, oh, yeah,

484
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 4: what's the problem. You get your loan if you have

485
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,440
Speaker 4: an off year, you tell them, they understand and then

486
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 4: maybe they work with you to make something happen. But

487
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 4: that really wasn't the case for black farmers really ever.

488
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, So like in the past, USDA had a system

489
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 3: where county committees, who are like local farmers, would have

490
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:38,000
Speaker 3: a lot of influence deciding who is credit worthy, and

491
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 3: so you know, they could decide like that black farmer,

492
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 3: for example, we don't want to give him a loan.

493
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:47,199
Speaker 3: Or one of the experts we talked to says how

494
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:49,600
Speaker 3: the county committee person could say, well, I have my

495
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 3: eye on that piece of property that they have, and

496
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:54,480
Speaker 3: I know if this loan is delayed or denied that

497
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 3: it's only a matter of time before that piece of

498
00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:59,720
Speaker 3: property will be you know, out in the market. Right,

499
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 3: So that was, you know, one way that affected black farmers.

500
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:07,960
Speaker 3: Another is loan officers have a lot of discretion and

501
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:12,159
Speaker 3: deciding who gets loans and who doesn't and how supportive

502
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:16,359
Speaker 3: they can be when that farmer's in trouble and they're farmers,

503
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 3: older farmers and then younger farmers like me who tells

504
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:24,000
Speaker 3: us his story of how he felt he didn't get

505
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:26,720
Speaker 3: the flexibility that he needed from his loan officer.

506
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:29,280
Speaker 4: Right, it is like do you think you know, like

507
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:31,679
Speaker 4: in looking at it too, because you know, Nate, the

508
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 4: one of the farmers that you speak with, talks about

509
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:36,919
Speaker 4: how when he's asking for his loan to be restructured

510
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 4: or something, their solution is basically like, why don't you

511
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 4: just sell your land then, and or like sell your cattle,

512
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 4: And they're like, but that's how I make my living,

513
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 4: So if I do that, that renders me like inert

514
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 4: from a business standpoint.

515
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:52,480
Speaker 2: And like with that, like.

516
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 4: Knowing that that you had these sort of credit bureaus

517
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 4: of like local like landed farmers who are the ones

518
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 4: determining who were like kind of behind the scenes or

519
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 4: at least how to like a seat at the table

520
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 4: to determine who got loans. It feels like that sort

521
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:08,959
Speaker 4: of I got my eye on that property sort of

522
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 4: energy has just kind of persisted throughout like the like

523
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 4: the decades following it.

524
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 3: I mean, I think we know for sure through what

525
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 3: mid nineties, because that's what Pickford was based on, Like,

526
00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:26,120
Speaker 3: we know that. The trickier question is to what extent

527
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 3: is this happening now? Like, to what extent has it continued?

528
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 3: And people like me, obviously through his experience, feel like

529
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:36,040
Speaker 3: it has. You know, other folks would argue that USAA

530
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 3: has done a number of things to try to rectify this,

531
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 3: but I guess the we're still trying to figure it out, right.

532
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 2: Can you talk about you did mention that there's racial

533
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 2: violence that played a role in this over the course

534
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:53,160
Speaker 2: of like the transition from the from nineteen twenty to

535
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 2: the late nineties. Can you just talk about what that was,

536
00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 2: what that looked like, because I think that's probably helpful

537
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:03,880
Speaker 2: when then coming into this and being like and then

538
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 2: this is a world that was like self policing, where

539
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 2: like the USDA just gets to use their own judgment

540
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 2: to make financial decisions. But what was what was happening

541
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:21,040
Speaker 2: at that time.

542
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean outside of the Deep South. I guess

543
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 3: some would consider Oklahoma still part of that. But Oklahoma

544
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 3: has like one of the highest documented things outside of

545
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 3: the Deep South traditional Deep South, And you know there's

546
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:43,960
Speaker 3: stories Oklahoma elsewhere are folks kind of abandoning their property

547
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 3: because of fear of racial violence from white farmers, white landowners.

548
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 3: So I mean, that's that's kind of outside of USDA,

549
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 3: but that's something that's functioned to dispossess black farmers as well.

550
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:02,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, USDA, I'm mainly knew prior to this for like

551
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:08,960
Speaker 2: grating my eggs and meats, like kind of my experience

552
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 2: with the USDA. But truly like they've set up this

553
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:19,880
Speaker 2: kafka esque like just system like that. There's one scene

554
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:26,000
Speaker 2: where they discover like that this USDA Civil Rights Agency

555
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 2: that they've been sending their complaints to the office just

556
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 2: like doesn't exist. Their letters have been just like piling

557
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 2: up in an office somewhere, and when it comes time

558
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:41,160
Speaker 2: to like actually look at their complaints and what the

559
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 2: USDA was doing, the court is just like we can't

560
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 2: use the letters as evidence because they never open, like

561
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:51,680
Speaker 2: basically the logic is like, they never opened them, so

562
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 2: what are they supposed to do? But yeah, it's like

563
00:31:55,360 --> 00:32:00,760
Speaker 2: the judicial historical equivalent of like plugging your ears and saying, yeah,

564
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 2: I can't hear you, so like it doesn't count. But yeah,

565
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 2: it's just a whole different level of like illogic and

566
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 2: injustice that I don't know, like it was crazy to

567
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 2: hear about. Yeah.

568
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:17,880
Speaker 3: Yeah. During with the Oregan administration, that's when the Civil

569
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:21,120
Speaker 3: Rights Office was like pretty much closed. So you had

570
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 3: farmers sending in their discrimination complaints and they weren't going

571
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:28,240
Speaker 3: anywhere right, Like nobody was reading them. They were were

572
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 3: just kind of piling up in a room that and

573
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 3: nobody was monitoring them. So that was one of the

574
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 3: things that really fed into the Pickford suit that even

575
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 3: when farmers filed complaints of discrimination there, they weren't being addressed.

576
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:46,160
Speaker 3: There was no one to address them, right.

577
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 4: And it's again like it feels like the USDA is

578
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 4: just like another example of many other agencies or institutions

579
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 4: that like, after decades of discriminatory behavior, they'll be like, oh, yeah,

580
00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 4: it turns out we may have been doing some bad stuff.

581
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 4: And then it just kind of feels like it sort

582
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 4: of peters out there because it felt like, especially when

583
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 4: discussing the Pickford for Verslickman, right, is the case that

584
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 4: there was a moment for this to potentially create some

585
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 4: kind of sea change, but it it just it just didn't.

586
00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 4: And a lot of that, I'm sure too, like as

587
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:29,680
Speaker 4: you ex like as the reporting shows, like the in

588
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:32,120
Speaker 4: the show, is that a lot of it too is

589
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:35,640
Speaker 4: also like by design, by like offering these farmers, like

590
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:38,480
Speaker 4: when the like in a settlement that it was just

591
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 4: kind of like pick your poison here and neither are

592
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:44,760
Speaker 4: actually going to fully address all of the injustices that

593
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:45,720
Speaker 4: you had to suffer.

594
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:50,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, So there was a settlement agreement and so this

595
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 3: case never went to trial, so farmers never had the

596
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:56,520
Speaker 3: opportunity to really like tell their case in court. But

597
00:33:56,520 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 3: they decided on the settlement that didn't actually require USDA

598
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:04,280
Speaker 3: to come out and say, you know, we did wrong,

599
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:06,160
Speaker 3: We're going to change our ways, we're going to fire

600
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:08,319
Speaker 3: folks who were involved in this, Like none of that

601
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 3: had to happen. And the settlement offered two tracks for

602
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:18,759
Speaker 3: folks to follow. One of those tracks basically they had

603
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:22,560
Speaker 3: to show some level of paperwork they had just proved

604
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 3: some level of discrimination and they would get fifty thousand dollars.

605
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:28,000
Speaker 3: But they also had to show, like that there was

606
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:30,839
Speaker 3: a white farmer in a similarly situated position that they

607
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:35,360
Speaker 3: suffered an economic loss. That was supposedly the easy track.

608
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 3: And then there was Track B, and that one they

609
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:41,920
Speaker 3: had to gather more paperwork, They had to present it

610
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:44,239
Speaker 3: at like a mini trial. They had to show that

611
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 3: their damages were greater than fifty thousand dollars, and then

612
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 3: they had to convince an arbitrator of all that and

613
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:55,360
Speaker 3: they could potentially get, you know, a substantial amount of money.

614
00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:59,279
Speaker 3: The farmer that we talked to, Eddie, says that the

615
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:03,360
Speaker 3: lawyers really encouraged the farmers to go with Track A

616
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:06,800
Speaker 3: and not Track B, and part of that was because

617
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:10,960
Speaker 3: Track A offered the possibility of debt forgiveness if they

618
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:15,080
Speaker 3: could find discrimination attached to the loan in question. So

619
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:16,880
Speaker 3: he argues, that's why a bunch of us went with

620
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 3: truck A, something like I think like two percent or

621
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:23,239
Speaker 3: less than two percent went with truck B. Wow, And

622
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:25,560
Speaker 3: in the end, a lot of folks didn't end up

623
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:28,600
Speaker 3: who went with TRACKA didn't end up getting that loan. Forgiveness.

624
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:32,080
Speaker 4: It's that's what's like really harrowing, especially that when you

625
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 4: talk about Eddie and you know the never ending fight

626
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:41,759
Speaker 4: with the USDA, of how it's always him or the

627
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:44,800
Speaker 4: farmers trying to prove that they're worthy of these loans,

628
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:47,360
Speaker 4: that they're being left out all the while that the

629
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:51,960
Speaker 4: USDA uses things like offsets, which is like this practice

630
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:53,799
Speaker 4: to say like, well, if you can't pay some of

631
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:56,000
Speaker 4: this debt that you have, we'll just take this out

632
00:35:56,000 --> 00:36:00,719
Speaker 4: of your fifty thousand dollars settlement from the USDA. Like that,

633
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:05,799
Speaker 4: the it just feels like never ending, and like the

634
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:09,239
Speaker 4: the frustration that comes out in some of these these

635
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:14,239
Speaker 4: people's voices, it's really really like it's heartbreaking because at

636
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:15,880
Speaker 4: the end of the day, they're trying to do something

637
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 4: as simple as just like grow things on the land

638
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 4: and have a very simple life. They're not saying like

639
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 4: I'm trying to live outside of my means or do

640
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:26,320
Speaker 4: something extravagant. It's like I like to I like to farm,

641
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:30,959
Speaker 4: and we're not given this opportunity, and and every other turn,

642
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:34,839
Speaker 4: it feels like they have to constantly fight just to

643
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 4: not have their their their their finances whittled away at

644
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:40,440
Speaker 4: to the point that they are so destitute that the

645
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 4: only option is to give up everything and give up land.

646
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 4: And they all talk about how important like the land is,

647
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 4: Like it's sometimes it's not even about the money. It's

648
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:53,840
Speaker 4: the fact that especially for uh, for Black Americans, that

649
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:56,320
Speaker 4: owning that piece of land is such a vital part

650
00:36:56,760 --> 00:37:00,120
Speaker 4: of your longevity, of you being able to have something

651
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:03,640
Speaker 4: to give to your descendants and things like that. And

652
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:05,920
Speaker 4: that must have been so difficult to like, I mean,

653
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:07,960
Speaker 4: did you have any I'm sure you had a sense

654
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:12,160
Speaker 4: of how like backwards this whole thing was, but like,

655
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 4: did it just kind of make you more angry or

656
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:18,080
Speaker 4: what was that like? Because I like listening to it,

657
00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:20,000
Speaker 4: I wanted to like scream half the time.

658
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:24,920
Speaker 3: I would say it made me angry necessarily. I think

659
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:27,560
Speaker 3: sometimes when you're like you're so seeped in it, it's

660
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:31,800
Speaker 3: like you lose a little bit of that. But I think,

661
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:37,880
Speaker 3: I mean, folks like Eddie are so passionate about this cause,

662
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:42,920
Speaker 3: and I think farmers in general, regardless of race, are

663
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:45,800
Speaker 3: really attached to the land. I mean, it's a multi

664
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 3: generational life, right. They're not just thinking about themselves, They're

665
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:53,239
Speaker 3: thinking about who's coming up after them, because they want

666
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:56,359
Speaker 3: the name to be carried on, you know, well after them.

667
00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:59,240
Speaker 3: And I think the stakes are obviously so much higher

668
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:02,839
Speaker 3: for black farmers. Is given everything that folks went through

669
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 3: to desk to hold on to that land, with the

670
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:10,160
Speaker 3: violence and with the economic issues that they faced one

671
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:14,320
Speaker 3: hundred years ago, to have it now is like, it's

672
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:18,560
Speaker 3: it's huge. So yeah, it's I mean, it does. It

673
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:21,160
Speaker 3: is a sad story when we think about just everything

674
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:21,880
Speaker 3: that's involved.

675
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:24,920
Speaker 2: Let's take a quick break and we'll come back and

676
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 2: talk about just where where you see things heading and

677
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 2: where you kind of leave things at the end of

678
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:31,320
Speaker 2: the show.

679
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:44,319
Speaker 9: And we're back and has anyone So there's that one

680
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:46,399
Speaker 9: there's that one picture of him on the beach right

681
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:50,600
Speaker 9: with Casey and it's like clearly photoshopped and there are

682
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:52,360
Speaker 9: no footprints behind them?

683
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:56,520
Speaker 2: Is that because of something to do with like maybe

684
00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:57,840
Speaker 2: his feet aren't even real?

685
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 5: Vampire?

686
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:03,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe he's a vampire, that's all.

687
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:06,440
Speaker 4: If you're footless, Yeah we can, we can, we can

688
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:10,360
Speaker 4: get right on them feet pictures. I feel so terrible

689
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:12,319
Speaker 4: that I didn't actually put this into the document for

690
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:13,000
Speaker 4: us to look at.

691
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:15,680
Speaker 2: But yeah, well you knew I would be described what.

692
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:18,480
Speaker 5: He's got fike feet, folks.

693
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:21,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, thick feet, thick foot king.

694
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:25,759
Speaker 5: Yeah, those look like the inflamed foot of a man

695
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:27,200
Speaker 5: who's been wearing lifts.

696
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:30,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, and one of his feet is propped up like

697
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:31,919
Speaker 2: a barbie foot.

698
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:33,759
Speaker 5: He can't stop propping it.

699
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 4: His imagine that foot is stuck like that from overuse

700
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:39,760
Speaker 4: of the lifts.

701
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:42,360
Speaker 2: They it took three days to get the left foot

702
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:45,640
Speaker 2: like flattened out, but they yeah, yeah.

703
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:47,120
Speaker 5: He has extremely flat feet.

704
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:51,560
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, well, hey, Ron, not anymore, not with the

705
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:55,719
Speaker 2: magic of these lifts. No, not at all. All right,

706
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:58,960
Speaker 2: we have an update on the story that we've been

707
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:02,319
Speaker 2: covered breathlessly. We're like, guys, stop stealing from Target. There's

708
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:06,279
Speaker 2: a string that is putting them out of business. And

709
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:08,799
Speaker 2: it turns out that is bullshit.

710
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:12,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, we've been covering, like I remember, the first one

711
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,440
Speaker 4: we were talking about is probably Walgreens in the Bay Area.

712
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:17,560
Speaker 2: They're like, oh god, it's so out of control.

713
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 4: And then it's like, no, your rents too high, you're

714
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:23,800
Speaker 4: not doing enough business, and you've overexpanded too quickly, and

715
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:27,160
Speaker 4: you're using this as cover. And now the latest one

716
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:30,280
Speaker 4: was like about a month ago. Target is the latest

717
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:32,680
Speaker 4: company crying crime wave, and they.

718
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:35,879
Speaker 2: Said, we're gonna have to close nine stores because they're

719
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 2: shoplifting so much. And again every fucking place. CNBC.

720
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:42,520
Speaker 4: Target says it will close nine stores in major city

721
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:46,040
Speaker 4: siting violence and theft. Wall Street Journal Target to closed

722
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:50,480
Speaker 4: stores in San Francisco other cities sighting theft. Bloomberg Target closes.

723
00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:53,920
Speaker 10: Nine NYC West Coast stores to stop losses from rising theft.

724
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:57,880
Speaker 10: The New York Times Target sighting theft to close nine stores.

725
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:00,879
Speaker 10: Everybody just took this and ran with it. Okay, and

726
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:03,920
Speaker 10: sadly for sw York Times is the most liberal publication

727
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:04,400
Speaker 10: in the world.

728
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:07,200
Speaker 5: What obviously, Yeah, I'm so confused.

729
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:10,239
Speaker 4: I know their coverage is so to the left, its right,

730
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:12,680
Speaker 4: that's how wild it is.

731
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:13,440
Speaker 2: It's crazy.

732
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:18,040
Speaker 4: But like sadly for them. Jud Legum's Popular information team

733
00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:20,360
Speaker 4: took a look at the numbers of the stores affected

734
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 4: in San Francisco and New York and guess what, These

735
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 4: stores that are being shuttered actually had lower instances of

736
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:29,880
Speaker 4: theft than the fucking stores that are remaining open.

737
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:31,279
Speaker 2: Wow does that work?

738
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:35,400
Speaker 4: And then but politicians, they only read the Wall Street Journal,

739
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 4: so naturally a few senators have introduced a bill called

740
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:43,960
Speaker 4: the Combating Organized Retail Crime Act, and that's really just

741
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 4: more cop shit, right obviously, And they point to this

742
00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:51,680
Speaker 4: statistic in their press release about why they need to act. Quote,

743
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:57,400
Speaker 4: organized retail crime cost retailers seven hundred and twenty thousand

744
00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:02,360
Speaker 4: dollars for every one billion dollar sales. That's up fifty

745
00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:04,120
Speaker 4: percent since twenty fifteen.

746
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:06,040
Speaker 5: Damn, I'm in the wrong business.

747
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:08,439
Speaker 4: Hey wait, quick math those are you love math joke?

748
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:11,440
Speaker 4: And I know you're really good at math? What percentage

749
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:13,120
Speaker 4: of seven hundred and twenty thousand out of one billion?

750
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:14,080
Speaker 2: Three?

751
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:18,520
Speaker 4: There you go, it's actually zero point zero seven percent

752
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:22,279
Speaker 4: of sales. And like the group that they say they

753
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:24,080
Speaker 4: get the stats from, this lobbying group, the.

754
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:27,600
Speaker 2: National Retail Federation, is the one keeping the stats, and

755
00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 2: even they admit they stopped recording these specific stats like

756
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:32,600
Speaker 2: back in twenty twenty because the numbers are so minuscule.

757
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:33,560
Speaker 5: Oh my god.

758
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:36,160
Speaker 4: And really a lot of people are just like, just

759
00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:39,280
Speaker 4: like the Walgreens thing, some people who are like savvy

760
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:41,360
Speaker 4: investors kind of looking into it and they're like, it

761
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:43,479
Speaker 4: looks like maybe a target is just trying to hide

762
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:46,319
Speaker 4: behind the theft. Argument to cover up the fact that

763
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:50,080
Speaker 4: their stores are just doing less business because they're poorly

764
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:53,600
Speaker 4: planned in the locations they're at, and maybe because the

765
00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:55,760
Speaker 4: prices might still be too high.

766
00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:58,080
Speaker 2: Maybe that could also be a thing.

767
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:00,600
Speaker 4: Too, But of course that couldn't be that what targeted

768
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:03,719
Speaker 4: be like we're losing business because our ship's overpriced.

769
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:04,759
Speaker 2: Yeah.

770
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:08,279
Speaker 5: Well, and also for them to have nine stores oh

771
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:11,080
Speaker 5: yeah closed down, Like and that's just the ones they close,

772
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:13,799
Speaker 5: Like there's more stores that they have. I mean it's

773
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:16,359
Speaker 5: poor planning yet, yeah, take down there.

774
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:17,960
Speaker 2: Yeah.

775
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:19,799
Speaker 4: But I've seen a lot of people argue about this

776
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:20,799
Speaker 4: story too, where they're like.

777
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:22,319
Speaker 5: People really buy into it.

778
00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:25,800
Speaker 2: They love to people love to cape for retail stores.

779
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:28,600
Speaker 2: It's fucking wild. Like there's like there's a Twitter thread

780
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:29,960
Speaker 2: going on. I was like looking at people saying like,

781
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:32,880
Speaker 2: if you knew anything about being in retail, you know that,

782
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:36,439
Speaker 2: like law enforcement is so underfunded that they can't even

783
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:38,400
Speaker 2: do anything about it. And other people were like, have

784
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:40,800
Speaker 2: you ever worked at a store and have someone steal something?

785
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:43,040
Speaker 2: You never call the cops, you know why, because they're

786
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:45,200
Speaker 2: gonna be like the fuck you want us to do? Yeah,

787
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:48,879
Speaker 2: like did you catch them? Their response to most things.

788
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:52,759
Speaker 2: It turns out, oh wait, hold on, there's someone having

789
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:55,440
Speaker 2: a fucking mental health crisis. We're right there, right there,

790
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:56,000
Speaker 2: guns thrown.

791
00:43:56,360 --> 00:44:00,680
Speaker 4: But yeah, like it's yeah, so this fucking this like

792
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:03,560
Speaker 4: little dumb story keeps coming back.

793
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:05,839
Speaker 2: All the time. It'll never go away, but you cry

794
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:09,160
Speaker 2: out for that. Theft has gone up a little bit

795
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:12,160
Speaker 2: in the past ten years, and that is because of

796
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:16,560
Speaker 2: self checkouts. They introduced self checkouts because and it was

797
00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:20,040
Speaker 2: a calculated risk that self checkout would save them enough

798
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:23,920
Speaker 2: money that it would offset the losses they would have

799
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:27,759
Speaker 2: from people just being like, oh miss missed that one.

800
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:30,839
Speaker 5: But okay, okay, everyone knows that self checkout is where

801
00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:32,239
Speaker 5: you go when you want to steal shit.

802
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:34,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, yeah, and they know that I do.

803
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:36,600
Speaker 2: I'm just saying, right, yeah.

804
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:38,520
Speaker 4: And also what you do is the person who's like

805
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:40,799
Speaker 4: the monitor, like the one human they have over there,

806
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:42,520
Speaker 4: you get good with them. You're like, hey, man, you

807
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:44,840
Speaker 4: want I'm about to come up on a London broil.

808
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:48,360
Speaker 4: If you want me, I'll split it with you.

809
00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:49,160
Speaker 2: That's right.

810
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:52,879
Speaker 5: Listen, I'm gonna buy this boot lift. Yeah, don't tell

811
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:53,680
Speaker 5: anyone about it.

812
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:59,880
Speaker 6: That's how I that's how my sleep deprided brain.

813
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:03,400
Speaker 5: Things. Hey, I'm going to commit an.

814
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:05,799
Speaker 4: Act and you're like, uh, I think you're here for

815
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:07,640
Speaker 4: your child's three month checkup.

816
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:10,319
Speaker 2: Oh oh my bad. Okay, so I thought it wasn't

817
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:19,520
Speaker 2: target all right. There's a story from dentists where I

818
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:25,120
Speaker 2: appreciate the specificity of their vision. The they're really like

819
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:27,600
Speaker 2: just being like, we don't give a fuck about any

820
00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:31,680
Speaker 2: other part of the body. We're good here. So an

821
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:34,920
Speaker 2: article this week, a dentist of Virginia implored kids to

822
00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:39,480
Speaker 2: eat all their Halloween candy and one sitting because it's

823
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:41,000
Speaker 2: much better for your teeth.

824
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:42,200
Speaker 5: Oh hilarious.

825
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:46,479
Speaker 2: It might upset your belly a little bit. Yeah, might

826
00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:49,200
Speaker 2: get all your candy in one sitting. It might like

827
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:53,120
Speaker 2: put you into a diabetic coma. Like literally, but I

828
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:58,319
Speaker 2: don't know everything. Yeah, but this isn't like one way

829
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:02,240
Speaker 2: silly Denis Like every single year Dennis give the same

830
00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:05,520
Speaker 2: advice where they're like, I mean, if you're gonna eat candy,

831
00:46:05,640 --> 00:46:07,319
Speaker 2: like a big bag full of candy, you might as

832
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:09,520
Speaker 2: well get it out of the way now and then

833
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:11,440
Speaker 2: just go brush your teeth immediately.

834
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:16,320
Speaker 4: Oh, rather than like a prolonged, a prolonged multi year's effort,

835
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:19,319
Speaker 4: like my weird bag candy vault would be.

836
00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:22,000
Speaker 2: You get all your candy in one city. You're exposing

837
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:25,160
Speaker 2: your teeth to that frequency one time, But if you're

838
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:28,040
Speaker 2: sitting there and you're eating it every twenty thirty minutes

839
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:30,480
Speaker 2: for the next few days, over the next week, it's

840
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:34,160
Speaker 2: causing more damage to your teeth. Oh that's that's a

841
00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:35,280
Speaker 2: quote from one dentist.

842
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:37,640
Speaker 5: I put it all in a bowl by my bed,

843
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:40,239
Speaker 5: and after I brush my teeth, I have one here

844
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:40,600
Speaker 5: you go.

845
00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:45,080
Speaker 2: I do not use hands. I just go face first

846
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:48,480
Speaker 2: into a bowl of peeah of I called it peeled candy.

847
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:51,680
Speaker 2: That's how much. That's how much I use. I'm consuming

848
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:54,719
Speaker 2: vegetables and fruits. That the only thing I can say

849
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:59,080
Speaker 2: is peeled candy. Peel the wrap, peel the skin off

850
00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:02,400
Speaker 2: my candy, and then just go at it. Yeah, you

851
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:02,680
Speaker 2: gotta do.

852
00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:04,160
Speaker 4: You gotta do the thing where you know those flat

853
00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:05,520
Speaker 4: jolly rancher candies.

854
00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:07,319
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, those are so good.

855
00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:09,160
Speaker 4: You just put those on each side of your mouth

856
00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:10,680
Speaker 4: before you take a little retainer.

857
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:13,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, wrap it around, soak on it for a little bit,

858
00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:14,880
Speaker 2: and wrap it around both so you have one in

859
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:18,080
Speaker 2: your bottom jaw. Oh yeah, yeah, topjaw and then.

860
00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:20,799
Speaker 4: Or like X rays and like that film, you have

861
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:25,600
Speaker 4: to bite down on just those flat pieces.

862
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:30,120
Speaker 2: I just love that. I just I don't know. I

863
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:32,560
Speaker 2: guess it could be argued that it's also not great

864
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:35,240
Speaker 2: for kids' teeth to have them bolt through a plate

865
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:38,600
Speaker 2: glass window and a sugar crazed frenzy after eating an

866
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:42,160
Speaker 2: entire pillowcase full of candy. But I'm with the dentists

867
00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:42,719
Speaker 2: on this one.

868
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 5: Hey, you know what, I watch a lot of true crime.

869
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:47,960
Speaker 5: You know what lives outlives you? Your teeth?

870
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:49,319
Speaker 2: Teeth, that's right.

871
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:55,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, after you've been murdered and manslaughtered, massacred, whatever,

872
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:58,759
Speaker 5: tortured by a serial killer, how do you want your

873
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:00,840
Speaker 5: teeth to look to the whole rest of the world.

874
00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:03,719
Speaker 2: That's what that's mainly. Yeah, when people are like, what

875
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:07,319
Speaker 2: am I going to leave behind when they're having existential crises? Teeth,

876
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:09,479
Speaker 2: Just your teeth, that's what you're going to leave behind.

877
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:13,840
Speaker 5: So you sit down, little Jimmy, and you eat that

878
00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:16,240
Speaker 5: entire goddamn bag of candy.

879
00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:19,040
Speaker 2: Yes, do you think I watch you? Do you think

880
00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:20,680
Speaker 2: kids want to do that? Like?

881
00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:22,359
Speaker 4: I know everyone's like, I'm going to eat it now,

882
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:25,040
Speaker 4: But like I feel like there's always that sort of

883
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:26,480
Speaker 4: deferred gratification thing.

884
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:30,120
Speaker 5: Like, yeah, no, he's taking to parents of kids with candy,

885
00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:34,759
Speaker 5: like adults in charge of kids bags of candy, right right,

886
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:38,840
Speaker 5: I used to eat my knees is candy? They forget

887
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:39,279
Speaker 5: about it?

888
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:40,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, they really do.

889
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:43,719
Speaker 5: They sit they forget about it. After like three days,

890
00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:46,000
Speaker 5: they're like, yeah, whatever, Halloween, Oh.

891
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:50,640
Speaker 2: Jackie, do you dole it out? Do I dole it out? Yeah?

892
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:53,560
Speaker 4: No, I'm saying, are they in control of their their

893
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:54,280
Speaker 4: bag account?

894
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:57,040
Speaker 2: No? No, no, no. They got a couple of pieces on

895
00:48:57,080 --> 00:49:00,799
Speaker 2: Halloween night and then like maybe one are too, in

896
00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:03,120
Speaker 2: like a couple of nights after, and then they forget

897
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:07,440
Speaker 2: about it because they're also like they my wife raised

898
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:10,960
Speaker 2: them on the idea that fruit is dessert and fruit

899
00:49:11,080 --> 00:49:14,520
Speaker 2: is the sweetest thing that you get, and so they

900
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:19,160
Speaker 2: are there they really prefer fruit to candy. And I'm

901
00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:23,960
Speaker 2: just sitting there being like, you suckers. When I eat

902
00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:25,799
Speaker 2: all of their candy and.

903
00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:31,120
Speaker 4: Dad has all my Jolly Ranchers in his mouth again,

904
00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:34,759
Speaker 4: I'm going to go for the rest of the night.

905
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:40,399
Speaker 2: Dad's teeth a rotting out of his head at such

906
00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:42,840
Speaker 2: a rate that we can actually see it in real time.

907
00:49:42,920 --> 00:49:44,680
Speaker 4: I think I saw a worm come out of his

908
00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:47,120
Speaker 4: incisor too, how's a gummy worm?

909
00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:49,960
Speaker 5: I think let's get a diagram on this.

910
00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:55,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, and finally we've got a great trend, a thriving

911
00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:59,720
Speaker 2: subculture in New Zealand. There's been a bunch of headlines

912
00:49:59,719 --> 00:50:01,640
Speaker 2: of the past week about how a New Zealand town

913
00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:06,279
Speaker 2: has been plagued by drivers blasting Selene Dion ballads, which

914
00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:08,719
Speaker 2: has turned people's lives into chaos.

915
00:50:09,719 --> 00:50:13,280
Speaker 6: It sounds to me like plagued is the wrong should

916
00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:16,600
Speaker 6: be enhanced blest yeah, series blessed, thank you.

917
00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:19,280
Speaker 2: But yeah, it makes it sound like it's a prank

918
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:23,560
Speaker 2: of some sort of some sort, but it's actually kind

919
00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:27,719
Speaker 2: of nuanced and beautiful. So there's this, there's this elaborate

920
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:32,720
Speaker 2: New Zealand subculture in which siren clubs have quote siren

921
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:35,480
Speaker 2: battles where they blair music on speakers hooked up to

922
00:50:35,719 --> 00:50:39,040
Speaker 2: modded cars or bikes to compete for the title of

923
00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:44,239
Speaker 2: Siren King to win. So this is like this was

924
00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:47,279
Speaker 2: happening with like bass when when I was growing up

925
00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:50,920
Speaker 2: with like cars, with like war yeah, base wars. But

926
00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:55,719
Speaker 2: the difference here is to win there, sounds can't just

927
00:50:55,760 --> 00:50:58,400
Speaker 2: be the loudest, they also have to be the clearest,

928
00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:05,400
Speaker 2: which is why competitors, many of them of the PACIFICA community,

929
00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:09,440
Speaker 2: have been using Celine Dion because her music has high trouble,

930
00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:12,480
Speaker 2: which it makes it very clear. You can play at

931
00:51:12,560 --> 00:51:16,040
Speaker 2: a loud volume and three blocks away they just hear

932
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:20,080
Speaker 2: the voice of an angel sound out in the night,

933
00:51:20,239 --> 00:51:21,040
Speaker 2: clear as a bell.

934
00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:24,920
Speaker 6: As if I didn't already want to move to New

935
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:30,600
Speaker 6: Zealand enough, I know, right, that's their biggest problem, is

936
00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:32,320
Speaker 6: people blasting Celine Dion.

937
00:51:33,160 --> 00:51:33,359
Speaker 2: Yeah.

938
00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:35,400
Speaker 4: Well, and it's wild too because it's not even like

939
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:37,799
Speaker 4: even when people are like it's a gang or whatever,

940
00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:40,640
Speaker 4: they're like, no, it's actually like a really positive thing

941
00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:41,960
Speaker 4: for like young people.

942
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:44,200
Speaker 2: It's not even like they're doing instead of a gang.

943
00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:46,680
Speaker 2: They say, like the kids are like actually, like this

944
00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:51,520
Speaker 2: keeps me pretty like it's like a fun, productive thing

945
00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:54,160
Speaker 2: that we do together, right.

946
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:55,759
Speaker 4: It like it reminds me of like how like in

947
00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:58,080
Speaker 4: some cities on the East Coast, like they're they're like

948
00:51:58,200 --> 00:52:00,480
Speaker 4: angry when they see like groups of kids and this

949
00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:02,920
Speaker 4: like city on bikes and stuff. Yeah, and they're like

950
00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:05,239
Speaker 4: it's a nuisance you're like, honestly, some of these kids

951
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:07,640
Speaker 4: like this is this is healthier for them to have

952
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:11,440
Speaker 4: fun together doing something like on a bike then you know,

953
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:13,920
Speaker 4: getting into some fucking nonsense or get in trouble. So

954
00:52:14,480 --> 00:52:17,080
Speaker 4: it's it's it's always interesting to see how these subcultures

955
00:52:17,080 --> 00:52:19,120
Speaker 4: pop up. And then like I love that it's such

956
00:52:19,120 --> 00:52:22,000
Speaker 4: a respect for the fidelity that they've had to dial in.

957
00:52:22,080 --> 00:52:24,120
Speaker 4: And it's like Selene Dion is actually like it's not

958
00:52:24,160 --> 00:52:26,480
Speaker 4: even about the style, it's about this is the music

959
00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:29,279
Speaker 4: that helps us really determine who the siren king is.

960
00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:31,840
Speaker 2: I'm just picturing like a bunch of teenagers. It's like

961
00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:35,520
Speaker 2: that scene in Shawshank when like the voice comes over

962
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:38,680
Speaker 2: and like all these teenagers just like look up in

963
00:52:38,719 --> 00:52:42,239
Speaker 2: a single tier like runs down their eye, you know.

964
00:52:42,640 --> 00:52:45,080
Speaker 5: Right, Okay, what's your favorite Selene Dion ballad?

965
00:52:46,239 --> 00:52:52,400
Speaker 2: I mean the power of Lirve. Yeah, it feely has

966
00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:56,080
Speaker 2: to be right power. I'm blasting that shit. If you're

967
00:52:56,160 --> 00:52:58,400
Speaker 2: not by heart well going, that.

968
00:52:58,239 --> 00:53:00,879
Speaker 11: Feels I'm sorry, it feels a little kind of yeah,

969
00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:03,840
Speaker 11: little played all those I'm not saying the power of

970
00:53:03,960 --> 00:53:06,479
Speaker 11: Lorve is the you know, like an original banger either,

971
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:08,439
Speaker 11: but I just feel like that would if I'm trying

972
00:53:08,440 --> 00:53:09,920
Speaker 11: to be a Siren King, I'll probably try and win

973
00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:10,439
Speaker 11: with that one.

974
00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:14,040
Speaker 5: I think you would win, Siron King, Miles.

975
00:53:13,520 --> 00:53:16,040
Speaker 4: And you know, thank you so much. I'm you know,

976
00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:19,319
Speaker 4: I am planning to just maybe make my way to

977
00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:22,320
Speaker 4: Auckland to see how I can you imagine that fucking

978
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:25,440
Speaker 4: comedy movie about some dude in like America. I'll been like,

979
00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:29,000
Speaker 4: I just want to be a Siren King dad and

980
00:53:29,040 --> 00:53:30,440
Speaker 4: making the journey to New Zealand.

981
00:53:31,160 --> 00:53:37,239
Speaker 2: Do live your dream, Live your dream boy. But he's

982
00:53:37,239 --> 00:53:40,640
Speaker 2: trying to like bring bass music to the Siren battles

983
00:53:40,880 --> 00:53:43,839
Speaker 2: and they're like, everyone's like this fucking sucks man. It's

984
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:46,920
Speaker 2: just it's all muddled. Man, I can't this is not

985
00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:51,080
Speaker 2: Siren King material. If you kiss me like this, oh

986
00:53:52,120 --> 00:53:57,040
Speaker 2: like that, it's all coming all coming back. I'll come

987
00:53:57,160 --> 00:54:01,680
Speaker 2: into back to I mean, now, wow, when it gets

988
00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:02,719
Speaker 2: to bab.

989
00:54:04,239 --> 00:54:06,000
Speaker 4: That's when you're fucking That's when you just put your

990
00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:09,840
Speaker 4: Siren King crown on. You're like, yep, any other questions.

991
00:54:09,560 --> 00:54:10,600
Speaker 5: That that ship's hot.

992
00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:12,399
Speaker 2: I feel like I will always love you. It would

993
00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:15,480
Speaker 2: be a fun one to just like hear again ring

994
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:19,560
Speaker 2: out because it opens with that long a cappella just

995
00:54:19,560 --> 00:54:21,440
Speaker 2: just her, just Whitney, you know.

996
00:54:21,520 --> 00:54:25,120
Speaker 5: I mean, she's got lines like the flesh and the fantasy.

997
00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:29,520
Speaker 2: Folks, it's all coming back when you when you said

998
00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:34,040
Speaker 2: that line, it's all coming back to me. But it's

999
00:54:34,080 --> 00:54:36,360
Speaker 2: all coming back to me. I just could smell the

1000
00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:39,680
Speaker 2: back seat of my parents car that song was playing,

1001
00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:42,080
Speaker 2: and I was nine years old.

1002
00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:45,399
Speaker 4: Oh, I thought this was you like making like making

1003
00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:48,319
Speaker 4: out in the back of your parents caring and like.

1004
00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:53,360
Speaker 2: Should I put the celine beyond on? Shall we? Uh?

1005
00:54:53,920 --> 00:54:55,800
Speaker 2: Shall we smooch to some celine?

1006
00:54:56,239 --> 00:54:56,959
Speaker 5: Damn Jack?

1007
00:54:57,000 --> 00:55:01,120
Speaker 2: Shall we bless the back seat with some celine? Like

1008
00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:04,040
Speaker 2: can you take me home? Yeah?

1009
00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:05,879
Speaker 4: Yeah, Sorry, that was a big swing on my part.

1010
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:09,320
Speaker 4: I didn't.

1011
00:55:10,320 --> 00:55:14,759
Speaker 2: Sorry, why do you have goosebumps? All? Listen? Drop me off,

1012
00:55:15,520 --> 00:55:16,399
Speaker 2: drop me off up here?

1013
00:55:17,239 --> 00:55:21,920
Speaker 1: All right, that's gonna do it for this week's weekly Zeitgeist.

1014
00:55:21,960 --> 00:55:25,440
Speaker 1: Please like and review the show if you like. The

1015
00:55:25,520 --> 00:55:30,280
Speaker 1: show means the world to Miles. He he needs your validation.

1016
00:55:30,440 --> 00:55:34,239
Speaker 2: Folks. I hope you're having a great weekend and I

1017
00:55:34,280 --> 00:55:35,600
Speaker 2: will talk to you Monday.

1018
00:55:35,600 --> 00:56:23,360
Speaker 12: Bye.

1019
00:56:01,160 --> 00:56:04,719
Speaker 1: Ba