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Speaker 1: I think I am a good employee, like I do

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Speaker 1: think that I did deliver. I did deliver. You give

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Speaker 1: me an assignment, I go out and tackle it. I'd

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Speaker 1: bring you back more than you asked for. Like you,

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Speaker 1: I'm a great employee, but I was not a great

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Speaker 1: diet coke fetcher. And I know it doesn't sound like

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Speaker 1: you can f that one up. I fed it up.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to off the cup, my anti anxiety antidote. We've

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Speaker 2: got a good one for you. My friend and colleague,

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Speaker 2: Alison Camarada is here today, and there's so much I

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Speaker 2: want to talk about. I know her well, but I

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Speaker 2: want you to know her better. So we're going to

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Speaker 2: get into it. Career stuff, family stuff, grief and mental health.

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Speaker 2: Lots to discuss before though, reminder to check out Talking

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Speaker 2: Politics are Pod within a Pod and Talking Coffee, where

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Speaker 2: we talk about more than just coffee. You'd be surprised

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Speaker 2: what coffee talk can reveal. It's really fun. But now

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Speaker 2: let's get into the interview. You know her as a

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Speaker 2: longtime CNN anchor. Before that, she was at Fox News.

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Speaker 2: She's author of the novel Amanda Wakes Up and the

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Speaker 2: memoir Combat Love, and she recently joined Scripts News as

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Speaker 2: a special events anchor, which is super exciting. Welcome to

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Speaker 2: off the cop Alison Camerona, Hello, my dear to see you. Well,

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Speaker 2: it's always nice to see you. We were just saying

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Speaker 2: I'll see you anywhere.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll use any excuse to see you. I mean,

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Speaker 1: even if it involves work, research, podcast, drinks, that's really

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Speaker 1: the preferable one. But I'll take anything.

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Speaker 2: Well, I will too for viewers, for listeners, even though

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Speaker 2: Allison and I don't see each other every day at

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Speaker 2: the office anymore. Sadly, it is said there is a

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Speaker 2: thing we do somewhat regularly that people don't know about.

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Speaker 2: Do you want to talk about Tell people about the

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Speaker 2: Vinyal Party?

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Speaker 3: Oh?

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Speaker 1: Oh, that that's secret, that's secret society that we're part of.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I do want to It's the coolest thing in

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Speaker 3: the world.

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Speaker 1: So our friend named Gary aka Baba Booie, that's the

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Speaker 1: one puts together a vinyl party for people that he

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Speaker 1: knows love love music and have stories to tell about

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Speaker 1: songs and music.

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Speaker 3: And I feel like that's you know, our middle names.

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Speaker 2: Yes, And I.

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Speaker 1: Just feel so lucky to be able to go to

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Speaker 1: them because it's always an eclectic bunch of people, some actors,

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Speaker 1: some famous TV people, some famous musicians, some people we

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Speaker 1: don't know at all, and it's very cool.

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Speaker 4: You.

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Speaker 1: You know, Gary gives us a theme and we bring

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Speaker 1: an album, an actual vinyl album, and we spin a

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Speaker 1: yarn about why there's a song on there that means

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Speaker 1: something to us in the theme that he's given us.

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Speaker 2: Yes, while drinking and socialize and meeting people and stuff

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Speaker 2: and laughing and laughing. I won't speak for you, but

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Speaker 2: I don't feel cool enough to be attending these parties,

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Speaker 2: even though I do and I love them. They are

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Speaker 2: so cool, and I don't feel like I'm cool. How

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Speaker 2: do you feel?

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Speaker 1: Well? I feel like you are cool, and I feel

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Speaker 1: like you. I feel like you brighten up any room

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Speaker 1: that you're in and you class up the joint.

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Speaker 2: I you know.

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Speaker 1: Look, I mean, my memoir Combat Love is all about

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Speaker 1: how I was often in rooms where I was the

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Speaker 1: most uncool person.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and how I had to.

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Speaker 1: Either just blend into the furniture so that nobody realized

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Speaker 1: there was an uncool girl in there, or.

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Speaker 3: I had to kind of a little bit fake it.

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Speaker 1: And so with these things, it's both of those, Like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, I feel like if we just slap on

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Speaker 1: some leather pants and we did an album, yeah.

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Speaker 3: And then we can kind of fake it enough to

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Speaker 3: be there.

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Speaker 2: Wore leather pants to the last one, so I feel

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Speaker 2: like you're talking about me, and yeah, I mean I

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Speaker 2: fake it. I fake being cool right because I'm in

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Speaker 2: a room with like music industry people. The new editor

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Speaker 2: of Rolling Stone was at the last one like way

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Speaker 2: too cool. But it is so fun and I love

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Speaker 2: that Gary brought us both into that world we've man.

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Speaker 2: You know, Jeremy Sisto was that one that was.

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Speaker 1: A highlight for you? And I know I remember, and

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Speaker 1: I do feel like we should tell your audience that

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Speaker 1: that was kind of like an I don't know, teenage dream,

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Speaker 1: a twenty something year old dream totalers and I'm a

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Speaker 1: fan as well, and I'm impressed, but I wasn't quite

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Speaker 1: as Gaga. In fact, I didn't know the role that

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Speaker 1: he before six feet under. I didn't know the role

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Speaker 1: that you know him best for.

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Speaker 2: Me and everyone else in America right right right on right, No,

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Speaker 2: I mean, but just weird, like why is he there? Well,

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Speaker 2: I don't think he knew. Yeah, I don't know, I

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Speaker 2: don't know I think it was because that particular one

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Speaker 2: was hosted at Rachel Ray's house in the city and

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Speaker 2: Rachel's husband John is in a band with Jeremy Sisto.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I did not know that, and I'm not sure

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Speaker 1: that Jeremy Sisto again.

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Speaker 3: Completely comprehensive.

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Speaker 1: There were moments and I know you overcall them where

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Speaker 1: he looked somewhat baffled about what was going on before

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Speaker 1: his eyes.

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Speaker 2: Truly, yeah, truly, but just great, really fun. I'm glad

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Speaker 2: we get to we get because I think we approached

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Speaker 2: those with very similar eyes. So I feel like we

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Speaker 2: experienced those parties in a very similar way.

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Speaker 1: Totally, like nobody's more excited to be there than me.

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Speaker 1: I take it as like I might as well be

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Speaker 1: studying for the SATs, like to prepare for that thing,

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Speaker 1: because I don't want to disappoint anybody with my LAMB.

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Speaker 2: Story, get embarrassed, embarrassed yourself. Yeah, absolutely, same, absolutely, Okay,

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Speaker 2: I can you tell me about your new gig. I'm

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Speaker 2: really excited.

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Speaker 1: I'm excited too, so the Script's news network, which I

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Speaker 1: didn't know much about, I'll confess. Before meeting the very

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Speaker 1: cool people, there is this long standing yes, venerable news institution.

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Speaker 1: They have been around for more than one hundred years.

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Speaker 1: And like Ernie Pyle, the famous war correspondent, was their guy.

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Speaker 1: He was a correspondent for scripts during wartime.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, they're a big deal.

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Speaker 1: They're a big, big deal. And so they have sixty

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Speaker 1: i think roughly stations around the country. So they're still

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Speaker 1: doing broadcast news as well as streaming, which everyone is

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Speaker 1: doing as well as you know on your devices and

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Speaker 1: YouTube and you know, podcasts and all of that stuff

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Speaker 1: as everybody has become the portfolio model of media because

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Speaker 1: that's how people now it and process it. And what

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Speaker 1: I can tell you is that the team that I'm

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Speaker 1: working with are just and you'll appreciate this as a

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Speaker 1: like smart creative. They have a can do attitude. Oh

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Speaker 1: they are. It's sort of it reminds me of the

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Speaker 1: days of yr in broadcast journalism, where we were still

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Speaker 1: excited to be storytelling and there were still resources for

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Speaker 1: news coverage and what else. I mean.

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Speaker 3: It's very nostalgic.

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Speaker 1: And it's crazy because we've both been at places where

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Speaker 1: once the belt tightening starts, it starts to feel less

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Speaker 1: exciting and less inspired a little bit a little bit,

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Speaker 1: and so so this feels different. And I'm their special

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Speaker 1: events anchor and that means that I'll be doing very

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Speaker 1: cool sit down interviews as well as covering big events

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Speaker 1: like the State of the Union on February twenty fourth,

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Speaker 1: and I get to work with this legend in broadcast

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Speaker 1: journalism named Del Walters. If you've ever spent any time

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Speaker 1: in Washington, d C, anyone you know Del Walters because

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Speaker 1: he's a fixture.

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Speaker 3: He's an institution of Washington d C News. He's won

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Speaker 3: something like twenty two Emmys.

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Speaker 1: And so when they said I was working with Del Walters,

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Speaker 1: I was like, what, how is that possible? And so

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Speaker 1: he and I are going to be doing the State

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Speaker 1: of the Union from the Capitol.

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Speaker 2: So I'm really so great and I'm, you know it

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Speaker 2: not to make everything about me, but no, this gives

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Speaker 2: me so much hope that there are still jobs out

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Speaker 2: there that are exciting and fun and doing news in

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Speaker 2: a way that you want to do news and not

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Speaker 2: in a way that you're being told to do the

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Speaker 2: news or have to do the news. And I'm just

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Speaker 2: excited for you, but I'm also, you know, admittedly excited

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Speaker 2: for me if I get to a place one day

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Speaker 2: where I want to leave've all the you know, the

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Speaker 2: legacy things that I'm kind of stuck in. That there

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Speaker 2: are great jobs and people wanting to do good journalism

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Speaker 2: and people wanting to, you know, take creative approaches, and

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Speaker 2: I'm just excited that that's still there.

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Speaker 1: Thanks. I feel the same way. It's a gem that

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Speaker 1: I didn't know was out there. Yeah, And I think

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Speaker 1: that everybody, they're God willing, there will be a pendulum

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Speaker 1: swing back to people investing in news and people believing

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Speaker 1: in news and people wanting to look. Everybody still needs journalists,

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Speaker 1: Everybody still needs truth, Everyone still needs the institution of

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Speaker 1: fact checking and research and standards. I think that the

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Speaker 1: advent of new media, which you and I are also

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Speaker 1: a part of, I mean, we straddle these these we're

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Speaker 1: doing it now now, oh yeah, is great. And I

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Speaker 1: think it's great that people can get away from corporate

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Speaker 1: pressure and political pressure in as much as they can

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Speaker 1: right now. But when you walk away from that, you

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Speaker 1: do walk away from these very impressive teams that help

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Speaker 1: with fact checking.

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Speaker 3: And standards of journalism.

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Speaker 5: And legal and all that stuff that I've always found

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Speaker 5: incredibly helpful me too, you know, We're in a hugely

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Speaker 5: cataclysmic moment right now, and I'm hoping that when all

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Speaker 5: of this settles down that there will still be versions

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Speaker 5: of that me too.

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Speaker 2: But congrats, it's going to be really exciting for you.

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Speaker 1: Thank you.

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Speaker 2: There's so much I want to talk to you about,

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Speaker 2: but I always like to start by asking, and just

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Speaker 2: for people who know, I know a lot of this

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Speaker 2: about you, but our listeners don't. So I always like

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Speaker 2: to start by asking, what were you like as a kid.

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Speaker 1: Well, I was an only child, and I was the

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Speaker 1: daughter of two intellectual people. So, but both my parents

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Speaker 1: were teachers. My father spoke six languages fluently. He was

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Speaker 1: the head of the language department at this local high

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Speaker 1: school in our in the next town over. My mother

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Speaker 1: is just an incredible scholar herself. She was an English

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Speaker 1: teacher and a drama teacher. And so I was their

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Speaker 1: only child, and so all of their kind of intellectualism

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Speaker 1: and articulate natures and heavy thoughts were funneled into me.

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Speaker 1: So I don't know if you remember the classmate of

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Speaker 1: yours who was the person who would raise her hand

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Speaker 1: and be the like apple polishing, annoying front row kid.

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Speaker 1: I know, I know, I know, but that's a little

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Speaker 1: bit who young Allison was. And I would say it

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Speaker 1: didn't make me the most popular kid in my class,

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Speaker 1: but neither what nor was I like marginalized and ostracized.

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Speaker 1: But I didn't have siblings, and you know, in the seventies,

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Speaker 1: what makes you cool for primarily are older siblings.

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Speaker 2: Totally.

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Speaker 1: They're the ones who like you get their hand me

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Speaker 1: downs and their jeans jacket, and they teach you the music,

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Speaker 1: and they teach you cool sayings, and they teach you

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Speaker 1: dirty jokes and they teach you all that. And so

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Speaker 1: I really had to rely on my friends for that,

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Speaker 1: and that was the beginning of my lifelong reliance on friends.

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Speaker 1: Because I didn't have, you know, a community, I really

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Speaker 1: got attached, more attached, I would say, than your average

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Speaker 1: bear to my classmates and my friends in school.

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Speaker 2: You grew up in New Jersey, what are the family

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Speaker 2: dynamics like.

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Speaker 1: Hm, that's a that's a loaded one. Yeah, as my

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Speaker 1: son would say, that's uploaded diaper.

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Speaker 2: That's great. I know, I love that.

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Speaker 1: So my parents got separated when I was seven. They

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Speaker 1: got divorced when I was eight, and long before that,

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Speaker 1: my father, who was again kind of an iconoclast and

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Speaker 1: always seemed sort of out of his time. He was

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Speaker 1: Italian of Italian origin who was born in South Philly,

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Speaker 1: as was my mother, but you know, they he was

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Speaker 1: a little bit more old world, seemingly, and he felt

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Speaker 1: like he was plopped in Shrewsbury, New Jersey, which was

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Speaker 1: just standard issue suburbia. And there was always this unstated feeling,

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Speaker 1: but that I could into it and sort of pick

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Speaker 1: up on that he was mentally somewhere else, that he

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Speaker 1: wished he were somewhere else, that something else in the

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Speaker 1: interior was going on that I couldn't see, and he

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Speaker 1: didn't talk about. And so he was kind of a

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Speaker 1: heavy presence in our house. But he was, you know,

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Speaker 1: also charming and charismatic and quite funny, but there was

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Speaker 1: a little bit of a depressive air, and his two

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Speaker 1: to three martinis a night didn't help, I would say.

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Speaker 1: And so at when I was eight, when he moved out,

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Speaker 1: there was a lightness suddenly, Like a lot of kids,

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Speaker 1: you know, obviously divorce is very destabilizing, but for me

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Speaker 1: and my mom it.

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Speaker 3: Felt sort of lighter.

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Speaker 1: We were we got kind of a respite when my

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Speaker 1: dad left, and I was very very attached to my mother.

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Speaker 1: And then when my mother started dating other people and

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Speaker 1: having her own life, I began having lots of abandonment issues,

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Speaker 1: which is again what combat love is sort of the

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Speaker 1: through line between all of combat love. And I started

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Speaker 1: searching for outside friends, communities, punk rock bands, boy friends

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Speaker 1: to fill that void.

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Speaker 2: And when you start doing that, what's your mom's attitude

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Speaker 2: around your searching and being out at the clubs and

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Speaker 2: all of that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I would say oblivious primarily, you know,

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Speaker 1: she was doing her own things. She was getting her PhD,

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Speaker 1: she was writing her dissertation. It was also the unparented eighties,

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Speaker 1: which is, you know, notoriously the least parented decade ever

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Speaker 1: in history of mankind, and so all like, I was

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Speaker 1: very unparented and very independent. But even my friends with

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Speaker 1: nuclear families and stay at home moms, I don't know

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Speaker 1: where their.

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Speaker 3: Parents were either. Quite frankly, I didn't, you know, I

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Speaker 3: don't know.

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Speaker 1: And so she was oblivious. And we were a roving,

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Speaker 1: marauding band of free range kids that were going to

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Speaker 1: New York City and cvgbs sometimes or sometimes, you know,

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Speaker 1: or ever every other night, just backyard keggers, and yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it was you know, I have a lot of

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Speaker 1: nostalgia for that time because I do think it was

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Speaker 1: really exciting and it was the music was wonderful, and

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Speaker 1: there was a lot of bonding because we were so unparented.

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Speaker 1: But it also came with some danger in some dicey

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Speaker 1: situations that I'm glad my own teenagers were not in.

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Speaker 2: Right. And as you're looking back on those dangerous situations

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Speaker 2: or near near danger, do you have any complicated feelings

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Speaker 2: about maybe the freedom that you got and did that

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Speaker 2: turn into maybe a way you wanted to parent differently

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Speaker 2: or well counterintuitively.

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Speaker 1: Because my kids were born into the helicopter parenting era,

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Speaker 1: I often it was it was more that I resent

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Speaker 1: the era that they were born in because I wanted

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Speaker 1: them to have a little bit of that you know,

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Speaker 1: transcendent experience of the freedom of being, you know, out

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Speaker 1: late at some place that felt a little dangerous and

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Speaker 1: you had.

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Speaker 3: To fend for yourself.

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Speaker 1: And I do think that some of that, a lot

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Speaker 1: of that was really good for us. I do think

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Speaker 1: it made me more self sufficient. I do think that

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Speaker 1: it made me self reliant. I do think that it

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Speaker 1: laid the seed, the groundwork for my journalism career. So

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Speaker 1: I reful to it for all that. In terms of

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Speaker 1: your question about do I have some resentment, I have

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Speaker 1: resentment that when the wheels fell off the bus, which

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Speaker 1: they did when I was a teenager and in my twenties,

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Speaker 1: that I didn't feel like I had anybody who had

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Speaker 1: my back. I didn't have financial security, I didn't have

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Speaker 1: a housing security, I didn't have emotional security, and so

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Speaker 1: it ended up causing me more kind of mental dress

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Speaker 1: and depression.

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Speaker 3: And I would have had had I felt more support.

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Speaker 2: Right, the trauma maybe wasn't the thing that happened, It

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Speaker 2: was the aftermath. It was no one was there to

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Speaker 2: catch you when the thing happened. Yeah, yeah, Well that

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Speaker 2: can imprint in a lot of different ways. And the

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Speaker 2: person you're describing and the life you're describing could have

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Speaker 2: gone down any number of roads. At that juncture in

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Speaker 2: your life, You're young, feeling a little untethered without a

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Speaker 2: helicopter mom, sort of watching every move. Going to college

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Speaker 2: at American University on a scholarship and graduating with a

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Speaker 2: degree in broadcast journalism was not maybe the road, right that,

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Speaker 2: like most kids in your situation, would end up on.

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Speaker 2: How did you get there.

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Speaker 1: Well, there's a few different explanations for that, and I'm

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Speaker 1: quite clear on how that happened. Number One, I grew

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Speaker 1: up in an area and an era where there was

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Speaker 1: a lot of drug use and a lot of alcohol use.

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Speaker 1: There was a lot of alcoholism in my town, a

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Speaker 1: lot of addiction issues in my town. So I was very,

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Speaker 1: very familiar with it as a you know, starting when

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Speaker 1: I was fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, and there was ready access

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Speaker 1: to alcohol and drugs, And from that time on, a

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Speaker 1: lot of my closest friends were derailed by their addiction

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Speaker 1: and substance abuse issues. So I was very clear that

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Speaker 1: I was not the brightest, I was not the funniest,

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Speaker 1: I was not the you know anything. I just happened

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Speaker 1: to be the luckiest. I really believe this of my

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Speaker 1: close crowd, to not have a predisposition to addiction r

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Speaker 1: it separated me from so many people because I never

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Speaker 1: wanted I always wanted one less drink, they wanted one more.

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Speaker 1: At midnight, I'd be like, I'm dehydrated and tired, can

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Speaker 1: we go now? And they would want more? And that

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Speaker 1: is just to me, baked in, that's baked in the cakes.

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Speaker 1: I came into this world without that, so I can't

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Speaker 1: take It wasn't character, it wasn't strength, There wasn't any

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Speaker 1: of that. I just didn't have that gene. So that's

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Speaker 1: the first lucky breakoukayah. And the second thing is that

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Speaker 1: I only had so I was unparented. But there were

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Speaker 1: three hard and fast rules of my growing up, and

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Speaker 1: these were the only rules of my growing up.

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Speaker 3: Number one, you will get.

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Speaker 1: A scholarship to college. You will get that because my

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Speaker 1: mother got a full scholarship to University of Pennsylvania and

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Speaker 1: that allowed her to go to an Ivy League school

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Speaker 1: and get this great education. My aunt, her sister, got

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Speaker 1: a scholarship. I believe my father got some sort of

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Speaker 1: military army subsidy to go to college. And so it

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Speaker 1: was just in my face, it was like a given

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Speaker 1: that you get a scholarship to college.

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Speaker 3: So there wasn't a choice that was going to happen.

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Speaker 3: Number one. Number two, you will not get pregnant.

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Speaker 1: And so that was a great rule because please note

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Speaker 1: not you will not have primaral sex. It was you

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Speaker 1: will not get pregnant. And so I had other friends

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Speaker 1: whose parents forbade them from having sex. I was like,

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Speaker 1: how does that work? Like, how are they going to

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Speaker 1: stop that? You know, but you will not get pregnant

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Speaker 1: is actually very doable, Like you can stop that, right.

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Speaker 1: And then the other was you will not be killed

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Speaker 1: in a drunk driving accident. And I took that one

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Speaker 1: very very seriously, so that I was now here again.

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Speaker 1: I think it would have.

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Speaker 3: Been helpful if my mother said, you will not get into.

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Speaker 2: A car with only part of that can you control?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And so that one was a little bit more dicey.

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Speaker 1: And so I was the kid who would like crawl

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Speaker 1: out of a car, like when there was something really

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Speaker 1: dangerous happening and there was a lot and I talk

378
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Speaker 1: about it in Combat Love. Yeah, I was the kid

379
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Speaker 1: who was like, pull over and let me out of

380
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Speaker 1: his car.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

382
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Speaker 3: And then I'd be like stranded on the side of

383
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Speaker 3: the road somewhere.

384
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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.

385
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Speaker 1: So those three things, those three rules I would end

386
00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:19,879
Speaker 1: my lack of addictive personality. I think allowed me to

387
00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:23,200
Speaker 1: have a more crack at bigger success.

388
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Speaker 2: And when you get to college, which is for most

389
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Speaker 2: people their first taste of independence, for you, might it

390
00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:38,680
Speaker 2: have been really your first taste of like structure.

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Speaker 1: Well for me, it was like amateur Hour.

392
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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I've done this, guys.

393
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Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god. In my dorm when

394
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:50,159
Speaker 1: I'd see kids like throwing up in like sloppy sex hookups,

395
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Speaker 1: I was like, get together, you children.

396
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Speaker 2: I've been out in these streets for ten years.

397
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Speaker 1: And I was like, get a hold of yourself, people,

398
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Speaker 1: this is not a good look. You're gross. And so

399
00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:06,920
Speaker 1: I I was very like blase about what was happening,

400
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Speaker 1: you know, at the dorm and in college campus. And

401
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:14,119
Speaker 1: so I was here again, I'm sure insufferable, and among

402
00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:20,840
Speaker 1: my classmates, I'm a real treat. And I was, you know,

403
00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:25,320
Speaker 1: very I would say, because high school was such an

404
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:31,399
Speaker 1: incandescent experience for me. I was pretty sad when I

405
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:35,199
Speaker 1: got to college and pretty bummed out that it couldn't compare.

406
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:38,520
Speaker 1: I'm one of these kids who like college couldn't compare

407
00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:40,879
Speaker 1: it to high school, you know, and like nobody's supposed

408
00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:46,040
Speaker 1: to peak in high school, but I did, and so

409
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:50,040
Speaker 1: I was What that allowed me to do was really

410
00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:53,280
Speaker 1: focus on the TV station, and focus on my studies

411
00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:55,960
Speaker 1: and focus on broadcast journalism because I also did have

412
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:59,439
Speaker 1: a lot of ambition and so all the other stuff.

413
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:03,280
Speaker 1: The Shenaniiggins I wasn't interested in, and I just like

414
00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:05,919
Speaker 1: set my sights on becoming a reporter.

415
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:10,640
Speaker 2: Did you end up enjoying college after you got over

416
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,040
Speaker 2: sort of the initial let down of it, or.

417
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:15,320
Speaker 1: Now I wish I did. I wish I had, And

418
00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:18,320
Speaker 1: I feel badly about that because American University is a

419
00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:20,400
Speaker 1: great school that gave me a great education, and they're

420
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:22,639
Speaker 1: so kind to me now and we have such a

421
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:25,360
Speaker 1: great relationship. I go back and speak to their journalism

422
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,040
Speaker 1: classes all the time. They're such big champions of mine,

423
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:31,520
Speaker 1: and I really really appreciate the relationship that I have

424
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:33,040
Speaker 1: with them. And I wish that it had been a

425
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:34,000
Speaker 1: peak experience.

426
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Speaker 3: You know, my husband went to Yale.

427
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:38,879
Speaker 1: He has these best friends from his time at Yale,

428
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,040
Speaker 1: and that was a peak experience for him. I know

429
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:45,040
Speaker 1: so many people who had similar experiences and that was

430
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:48,680
Speaker 1: not my experience. But really, my college years is when

431
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,120
Speaker 1: the things that you and I talked about earlier did

432
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:55,560
Speaker 1: come home to roost. Feel my feelings of being untethered,

433
00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:58,920
Speaker 1: of not having any anybody having my back that came

434
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:01,720
Speaker 1: home to roost, and I was suffering more emotionally. I

435
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:03,880
Speaker 1: would say, I have.

436
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:07,159
Speaker 2: A theory that, like you, can't. You can't have had both.

437
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:10,040
Speaker 2: You can't have had a great high school and college

438
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:14,919
Speaker 2: experience because you change so much in those eight years,

439
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:19,040
Speaker 2: and you cannot. You're not the same person. You know,

440
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:21,280
Speaker 2: when you start high school is when you finish college,

441
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:23,840
Speaker 2: so at some point you're changing and that experience is

442
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:26,600
Speaker 2: not right like the best for you. I had the worst,

443
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:29,560
Speaker 2: not the worst, but I had terrible high school experience.

444
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:32,240
Speaker 2: I hated it. Why Why? What was bad?

445
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:32,880
Speaker 1: Oh?

446
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:36,040
Speaker 2: I just it was so many things. I started high school,

447
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:38,440
Speaker 2: I was dancing at Boston Ballet. That's all I cared about.

448
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:43,359
Speaker 2: So I was insufferable as well because I was, you know,

449
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:45,919
Speaker 2: the girl that had to leave to do ballet your belly.

450
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:48,439
Speaker 1: I mean, that's an intense life, I don't have to

451
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 1: tell you.

452
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:52,359
Speaker 2: And that was happening even outside of school. You know,

453
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:57,159
Speaker 2: I'm fourteen fifteen, going through like puberty and adolescence in

454
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:03,680
Speaker 2: a very competitive ballet environment. That's like weighing me literally,

455
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:06,960
Speaker 2: and you know, all the body issues and eating disorders

456
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:09,639
Speaker 2: that's all happening at the same time. And I'm at

457
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 2: an old girls' school right barf me a river, And

458
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:19,800
Speaker 2: you know, it just wasn't none of it was working

459
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 2: at the same time, right Like, it was.

460
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:25,040
Speaker 1: Hard, I mean, and the way you've described it, I see,

461
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 1: I get it. That sounds incredibly taxing, emotionally and physically.

462
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:32,439
Speaker 2: Socially hard because I wasn't cool. I also didn't have

463
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 2: time for everyone. And then when I quit ballet, I

464
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,639
Speaker 2: didn't even know who I was. That was incredibly traumatic

465
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:39,919
Speaker 2: for me. So I just didn't I had no identity

466
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:43,120
Speaker 2: when I did that. But when I got to college,

467
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 2: it was like everything cut up. I was in exactly

468
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 2: the right place. I gained all this confidence. It was

469
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:55,159
Speaker 2: cool to be, to be smart and ambitious, and so

470
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:57,159
Speaker 2: I didn't have to, you know, to pretend not to

471
00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:00,119
Speaker 2: care about that. So it all worked out. But I

472
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:04,879
Speaker 2: couldn't imagine having both. My husband loved high school and

473
00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:08,040
Speaker 2: still talks to all his high school friends, and I'm like, oh, gross, Dick,

474
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 2: that's an ick. But but no, I mean, I guess,

475
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:18,920
Speaker 2: you know, having the great high school experience sounds amazing,

476
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 2: sounds amazing. I would have loved that. I really would

477
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 2: have loved that.

478
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:24,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, And having a great college experience sounds amazing.

479
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:27,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, good, I like that.

480
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 1: Well, all right, we made our choices.

481
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:32,199
Speaker 2: I think we feel okay about it, okay to leave college?

482
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:35,199
Speaker 2: What is the news business like when I leave? At

483
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:38,000
Speaker 2: the moment at which you enter it.

484
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 1: It was intense. I mean that that was when you

485
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:43,920
Speaker 1: know news. These news gods existed, and I worked for

486
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 1: one of them. So Ted Copple was America's pre eminent interviewer.

487
00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:51,960
Speaker 1: It was the Ivory Tower of journalism with the capital J.

488
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 1: And I was this, you know, wet behind the ears.

489
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:59,240
Speaker 1: Knew me entering into his special production company with his

490
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:03,200
Speaker 1: hand plucked favorite producers from ABC who were the Creme Delocreme.

491
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:04,680
Speaker 1: And I had no.

492
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 3: Business being there whatsoever.

493
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:12,639
Speaker 1: But I talked my way into a job as I was,

494
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,960
Speaker 1: as was my nature, you know, I always was more

495
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:20,240
Speaker 1: confident than my skill set allowed, and I was always

496
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:25,480
Speaker 1: great in an interview, and so I tricked them into

497
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 1: hiring me, which they immediately regretted.

498
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:30,760
Speaker 3: They did both trust me.

499
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:31,480
Speaker 1: Because like I.

500
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 6: It was immediately it was revealed that I didn't know

501
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 6: shit from Ranola about anything.

502
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:39,280
Speaker 1: Like I couldn't find my way to the library, that

503
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:41,400
Speaker 1: tape library. They'd be like, Alison, we're gonna need you

504
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 1: know this b roll, go get it. I was like,

505
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 1: where's that library again and so, but I just had

506
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:50,600
Speaker 1: to you know, I was thrown into the deep end.

507
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:52,720
Speaker 1: And so, anyway, the news business at that at that

508
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 1: time was the Dan Rathers, the Peter Jennings, Tom Brokaw

509
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 1: and you trust did these men not because I don't

510
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:07,280
Speaker 1: think because they had any special superpower though they were

511
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 1: highly educated and you know, kind of erudite. However, they

512
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 1: had earned their stripes. I mean they had all been

513
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 1: out in the field, they had all been reporting in

514
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 1: Vietnam or wherever. Yeah, and so, and they had these

515
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:27,720
Speaker 1: very you know, not just the Tiffany Network, but these

516
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 1: like incredibly impressive networks behind them that gave them cachet

517
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 1: and and fact checking and incredibly talented producers.

518
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 2: So in limited real estate, they weren't competing against eighteen

519
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 2: hundred other news outlets. So it was just so established.

520
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we all Americans accepted they're telling us the truth.

521
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 2: Yeah.

522
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, we all are reading or hearing the same script.

523
00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 1: We're all getting the same news. Were there some downsize

524
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 1: to that? I suppose? Sure?

525
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 3: Was everybody represented in that? And probably not?

526
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 1: However, was it an easier, less divisive time? Yes, it

527
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 1: was because of that.

528
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, did you get the sense at that time you

529
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 2: could become a Ted Copple of Peter Jennings, a broke

530
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:22,920
Speaker 2: off rather.

531
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 1: Yes, but again that's just my ser hubris. Like there

532
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 1: was no talent i'd like to there was no route.

533
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 7: To that, and no even I would say deliverables, like

534
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 7: there was not even a reason that I should become

535
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 7: Ted or Peter Jennings.

536
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 1: But I just had ambition, you know, I had kind

537
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 1: of blind ambition that. So I didn't have the skill set,

538
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:48,960
Speaker 1: I didn't have the experience, I didn't had the talent,

539
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 1: but I was like, I'm going to take your job

540
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 1: and so and so. But it wasn't really their job

541
00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:57,240
Speaker 1: that I.

542
00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 3: Was lusting after.

543
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:02,520
Speaker 1: It was more like the Katie Jane Pauley, like that

544
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 1: did seem more fun to me. And yeah, so I

545
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 1: did think. I did think that I would become I

546
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 1: did hope and believe that I could become a national anchor.

547
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:20,440
Speaker 1: But I didn't want to pay my dues. That was

548
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:25,960
Speaker 1: another thing. Yeah, so they really wanted me to pay

549
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 1: my dues, which involved a lot of fetching of Ted's

550
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 1: diet cokes, and I was like, I'm not sure how

551
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 1: this is going to get me to that studio. I

552
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 1: was here again just an incredibly annoying, impatient, impatient, problematic employee,

553
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 1: which is I think kind of my stocking trade.

554
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:52,239
Speaker 2: That's hilarious because people who work with Alison would like

555
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 2: she's the least problematic person.

556
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 1: Once I've gotten what I wanted, I will say, once

557
00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 1: I got to where I wanted of being a report,

558
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:03,720
Speaker 1: I did you think I am a good employee? Like

559
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 1: I do think that I did deliver. I did deliver.

560
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 1: You give me an assignment, I go out and tackle it.

561
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:10,920
Speaker 1: I bring you back more than you asked for. Like

562
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:13,480
Speaker 1: I am a great employee, but I was not a

563
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 1: great diet coke fetcher. And I know it doesn't sound

564
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 1: like you can f that one up. I f'd it up.

565
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 2: You spend some time in Boston, That's my hometown.

566
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 1: Well Boston, did you?

567
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 2: Did you love it? Because people have very strong feelings

568
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 2: in both directions about working and living in Boston.

569
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:42,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, Boston is polarizing, it is. I thought it was

570
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 1: magical at Boston. Had I always had this this special affinity.

571
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 1: You know, there are some places that for no reason

572
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 1: that on this earthly plane, yes, we can entirely understand,

573
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 1: have kind of a magical pixie dust swindled on you

574
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 1: from the minute you get there. And and similarly, there

575
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 1: are places that like you're not supposed to be in

576
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 1: and it never clicks, Like you get there and you're like,

577
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:08,320
Speaker 1: why is this it?

578
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 3: Can I never get a parking spot.

579
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:13,200
Speaker 1: In this this environment to me, yes, I shouldstle and

580
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:14,720
Speaker 1: I don't know how to explain it, and I can't

581
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:17,520
Speaker 1: fix it right. Boston was the opposite, where there was

582
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:20,160
Speaker 1: a parking spot waiting for me in front of wherever

583
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:23,480
Speaker 1: I wanted to go amazing there there was a there

584
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 1: was a seat at the bar is to be packed,

585
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 1: but the seat would clear, like I would walk through

586
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 1: the door and a seat would clear.

587
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:31,520
Speaker 2: Waiting for you.

588
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 1: Every time it was it was magical. And I had

589
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 1: always I only visited Boston like two times before and

590
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:42,520
Speaker 1: had kind of a magical experience as a teenager. And

591
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:45,959
Speaker 1: then when I got the call that this new show,

592
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 1: a new national morning show was starting on NBC and

593
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 1: they wanted me to be a correspondent, I swear it

594
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:54,720
Speaker 1: was like Jacob's ladder descended, and I was like like

595
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:56,960
Speaker 1: like I could hear like the orchestral music spark up,

596
00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 1: and I was like, my destiny has found me and

597
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 1: I to Boston and it was this, you know, a

598
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 1: very charmed experience there.

599
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 2: It has that side. Where did you live in Boston?

600
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 1: Oh, the prettiest street in the world on Beacon Hill

601
00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 1: called Mount Vernon.

602
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 2: There you go.

603
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:18,440
Speaker 1: Yep, Now, mind you. I did live in a basement

604
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 1: apartment and when my friends, when one of my my

605
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 1: best friend came to visit me from Seattle, the door

606
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:28,080
Speaker 1: to my basement apartment was like the width of this

607
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:29,880
Speaker 1: laptop that I'm on. Literally it was like the with

608
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 1: So you had to turn your body to like contort

609
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:36,839
Speaker 1: your body to get into my apartment. And you first

610
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:40,560
Speaker 1: you had to walk down four steps to get through

611
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:43,880
Speaker 1: that little cubby. And she said, Ellison, you live in

612
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:48,880
Speaker 1: a hobbit hole. So that's why I could live on

613
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 1: the prettiest street.

614
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:51,320
Speaker 2: It was a how long were you there for?

615
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:56,400
Speaker 1: I was in Boston for nine years.

616
00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:57,360
Speaker 2: That's a lot.

617
00:34:59,120 --> 00:34:59,480
Speaker 1: Yeah.

618
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 2: Do you have have favorite restaurant memories?

619
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:05,920
Speaker 1: Yeah? I mean I have. There were just so many

620
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:09,040
Speaker 1: funny There were so many fun things like Miss Straw

621
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:12,640
Speaker 1: was so fancy, and going to Miss Strall and Back

622
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:16,160
Speaker 1: Bay was so exciting, and there was Biba at that time,

623
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:20,600
Speaker 1: which was had lobster pizza, which was so glamorous. And

624
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:27,480
Speaker 1: I was, you know, this glamorous national correspondent. And yes,

625
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:30,319
Speaker 1: I was a single girl in Boston. I ended up

626
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:33,520
Speaker 1: meeting Tim wall I lived in Boston, but for many

627
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:36,280
Speaker 1: years I was a single girl in Boston driving around

628
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:43,360
Speaker 1: in my convertible red sob that's a throwback. And yeah,

629
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:47,880
Speaker 1: so I got oh Olives. Olives was a phenomenal English

630
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 1: got English figs.

631
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:51,759
Speaker 3: His pizza place phenomenal.

632
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:54,400
Speaker 1: And so I would go like get taken on dates

633
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:58,360
Speaker 1: to Olives in Biba and it was pretty great.

634
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:02,879
Speaker 2: That's a well, that's a great time at a great

635
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 2: age to be out on the town in Boston and

636
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:08,719
Speaker 2: a great era of Boston. It was, So, how do

637
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:09,759
Speaker 2: you meet Tim?

638
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:12,280
Speaker 1: So my book club, I was in a book club

639
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:17,920
Speaker 1: in Boston, and all women, of course, and they had

640
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 1: gone to college with him, so that most of the

641
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:22,440
Speaker 1: women in the book club, the vast majority, had gone

642
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:26,400
Speaker 1: to college with him. And they would talk about Tim

643
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:28,840
Speaker 1: from time to time, not all the time, but they

644
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 1: were he was a close friend of theirs, and they

645
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:32,799
Speaker 1: would talk about him. And what they would say to

646
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 1: me was and this was their selling point, we should

647
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:42,560
Speaker 1: really introduce you to our friend Tim. He's a professional dater,

648
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:43,279
Speaker 1: just like you.

649
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:48,359
Speaker 3: I was like, that does sound.

650
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:55,640
Speaker 1: Good, amazing, he sounds amazing. And so he had, you know,

651
00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 1: a string of girlfriends, you know, serial monogamous, as was.

652
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 1: I had lots of different boyfriends. And then there was

653
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:05,719
Speaker 1: a moment in time like lightning struck and we were

654
00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:07,839
Speaker 1: both single at the same moment, and they were like,

655
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:10,279
Speaker 1: is it time for us to introduce you? Oh my god?

656
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:11,759
Speaker 5: Yeah?

657
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:12,799
Speaker 2: Was it love for sight?

658
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:15,160
Speaker 1: Yeah? I mean it was a great first date. I

659
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:16,480
Speaker 1: don't know if it was love first sight, but it

660
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:18,799
Speaker 1: was definitely a great first date I had. I had

661
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:22,200
Speaker 1: to go to Chicago for a job interview. But they

662
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:24,560
Speaker 1: had talked about Tim at this point for five years. Okay,

663
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:26,560
Speaker 1: so I had heard about Tim for five years and

664
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:31,240
Speaker 1: it was before the Internet or yeah, before before everybody's

665
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:35,319
Speaker 1: before social media. So these dummies did not show me

666
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:39,600
Speaker 1: a picture of Tim. I went sight unseen rude on this.

667
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:43,760
Speaker 1: Thank you also like they buried the lead because he looked.

668
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:46,200
Speaker 3: Like Warren Batty. Like when I got to the date,

669
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:46,640
Speaker 3: he was like.

670
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 1: A young Warren Batty, and I was like, oh my god,

671
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:52,960
Speaker 1: why didn't they tell me this, these dumb shits. And

672
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:56,640
Speaker 1: so I was so convinced that I wouldn't like him

673
00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:59,319
Speaker 1: because the women in my book club were much more

674
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:04,000
Speaker 1: like respond constable and had long term boyfriends who they

675
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:06,200
Speaker 1: had married, and they were like salt of the earth,

676
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:09,400
Speaker 1: and their boyfriends were like environmentally conscious do gooders and

677
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:12,560
Speaker 1: like ivy leaguers. And I was like, if he doesn't

678
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:14,800
Speaker 1: have a prison record, I'm not sure I'm going to

679
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:19,239
Speaker 1: be injous. And so anyway, I was like, I'm gonna

680
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:21,520
Speaker 1: have a new friend tonight, is what I thought.

681
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:24,680
Speaker 2: And so I wore, he'll do my accounting.

682
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 3: I'm not Yeah, he could do my accounting. And I

683
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:30,240
Speaker 3: wore the blue suit that I went to the job interview.

684
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:33,160
Speaker 2: Oh so you were kind of trying to impress.

685
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:36,440
Speaker 1: No, I mean there's no, there wasn't flesh from my

686
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:39,600
Speaker 1: from my chin to my ankles. Like I had a

687
00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 1: red turtleneck a blue business suit on. Like I was

688
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:45,880
Speaker 1: not screaming sex appeal.

689
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:48,640
Speaker 2: Would oh, because you were just thinking, and.

690
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:49,800
Speaker 1: Who's here's my new account?

691
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:54,400
Speaker 2: Yes, oh my god, okay.

692
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:57,040
Speaker 1: And somehow it was a great and somehow he overlooked

693
00:38:57,040 --> 00:38:59,320
Speaker 1: that and it was a great first.

694
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:05,319
Speaker 2: Date because of maybe your childhood and your parents. Did

695
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:10,240
Speaker 2: you approach relationships in a in a way like maybe

696
00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:12,640
Speaker 2: more methodically or like, you know, I don't want to

697
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:15,359
Speaker 2: get divorced, and so I'm gonna you know, I'm a

698
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:17,160
Speaker 2: product of divorce as well, and so I, you know,

699
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:18,640
Speaker 2: I had these ideas in my head like, well, I

700
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:20,640
Speaker 2: don't want to get divorced, and so I was real

701
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:26,360
Speaker 2: methodical about who I dated and then eventually married. What

702
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:28,800
Speaker 2: was your sort of approach going in.

703
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:31,359
Speaker 1: Well, yours sounds a lot healthier and more mature than

704
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:38,279
Speaker 1: mine mine was. I I had a lot of you know,

705
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 1: like emotional intimacy and abandonment issues, and so I had

706
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:49,160
Speaker 1: lots of boyfriends and I liked being in relationships, but

707
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:52,319
Speaker 1: I would always hit a wall before I could get

708
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:57,319
Speaker 1: married where I didn't really understand commitment. I certainly didn't

709
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:01,080
Speaker 1: understand unconditional love. I didn't understand what commitment took. I

710
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:05,359
Speaker 1: hadn't didn't have great examples of commitment. It was kind

711
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 1: of foreign to me. I didn't believe that anybody would

712
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:12,640
Speaker 1: stick around, so I would often leave before so they

713
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:17,000
Speaker 1: didn't get a chance to abandon me. So I had

714
00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 1: like very deep seated abandonment issues that I really had

715
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:26,120
Speaker 1: to work through, which I did in the two years

716
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:28,440
Speaker 1: before I met him. And I mean, if I hadn't

717
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 1: done therapy, I'm not sure that I would have been

718
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:39,520
Speaker 1: as ready when I met Tim, because I, you know,

719
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:41,520
Speaker 1: I just always hit a wall, Like I saw other

720
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:44,239
Speaker 1: people around me getting married and building families, and I

721
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:45,799
Speaker 1: had no concept of how to do.

722
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:49,160
Speaker 2: That right, right, Yeah, you'd get yourself right up to

723
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:52,240
Speaker 2: the edge of the point where maybe that was about

724
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 2: to start and be like I got I'm out. You can't.

725
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:59,000
Speaker 2: I don't know where to go with that. Yeah, yeah, okay,

726
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:04,000
Speaker 2: back to your career. Fox News comes along.

727
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:10,120
Speaker 1: How my good friend Rick Leventhal, who was my co

728
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:12,160
Speaker 1: anchor at American University.

729
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:15,239
Speaker 2: Wait a second, Yeah, Kelly, I did not know this.

730
00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:16,280
Speaker 2: I know both of you.

731
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:17,279
Speaker 1: Please digest this.

732
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:21,560
Speaker 3: Rick was my co anchor at American University.

733
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:22,680
Speaker 2: I had no idea.

734
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:25,880
Speaker 1: Yes, and Rick, by the way, had talent unlike me,

735
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:30,319
Speaker 1: and so Rick was very like Rick was a great

736
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:35,919
Speaker 1: reporter and a great anchor, and I really like admired him,

737
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:39,279
Speaker 1: and so he got this cool job. He graduated. I

738
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:40,720
Speaker 1: think he was a senior when I was a freshman,

739
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:43,960
Speaker 1: and I think he graduated and went to work in

740
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:47,480
Speaker 1: like Columbia, South Carolina, and it sounded like so awesome,

741
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:50,520
Speaker 1: you know, like I couldn't imagine any better job than that.

742
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:54,160
Speaker 1: And so I Rick and I had always stayed in touch.

743
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:59,239
Speaker 1: We were good friends, and we My showing in Boston

744
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 1: was anseled after a year, and Rick and I was in.

745
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 3: New York for different meetings. And Rick and I had.

746
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:08,560
Speaker 1: Lunch and he was like, you know, I just got

747
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:11,560
Speaker 1: this awesome new job at this place called Fox News Channel.

748
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:12,600
Speaker 1: It's so cool.

749
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:15,280
Speaker 3: You get your own producer, you get a designated crew.

750
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:17,360
Speaker 1: I was like you do, He goes, yeah, you should

751
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 1: send your tape there. In fact, just send it to Ah.

752
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:22,719
Speaker 1: Send your tape to this guy. Check call your I'll

753
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:25,800
Speaker 1: give you his number. Like I sent it cold because

754
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 1: of Rick. I sent a tape and I got hired.

755
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:34,960
Speaker 1: I know, like this it happens. I'm not sure it should,

756
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:39,319
Speaker 1: because I, like everybody says to me, now, with what

757
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:43,279
Speaker 1: Fox has become, you know, did you have to like

758
00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:46,720
Speaker 1: did they interview you? Did you have to be a conservative?

759
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:48,719
Speaker 3: Did you know what Roger Els was up to?

760
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:51,040
Speaker 1: I was like no, I sent it into the void

761
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:51,960
Speaker 1: and got hired.

762
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:58,960
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, wow, that's amazing. I first came to Fox,

763
00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 2: I wasn't hired. I was never hired by Fox.

764
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:03,880
Speaker 1: But I but you want to be hired? Did you

765
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:05,279
Speaker 1: want to be hired? You wouldn't have been hired?

766
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:07,600
Speaker 3: Oh yeah as a reporter. I mean you wanted to.

767
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:09,879
Speaker 2: No, I wanted a contract as a commentator, for sure.

768
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:12,160
Speaker 1: And you never had a contract as a commentator there. No,

769
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:13,080
Speaker 1: I didn't know that. No.

770
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:15,960
Speaker 2: I was there two years on air like three or

771
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:19,400
Speaker 2: four times a day, I remember. I mean it was

772
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:22,759
Speaker 2: too much Ussie. But but obviously they you know, I

773
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:25,080
Speaker 2: needed them more than they needed me. I was coming up.

774
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:30,760
Speaker 2: But Rick was the first person I worked with at Fox,

775
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:35,760
Speaker 2: because remember he had that show, the Strategy Room. No, okay,

776
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:39,560
Speaker 2: it was a it was a digital show. Oh that

777
00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:43,080
Speaker 2: aired like just before or during Fox, maybe after Fox

778
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:44,600
Speaker 2: and Friends, I don't know. It was a morning show

779
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:48,800
Speaker 2: in this little recording booth. It was like Rick, me,

780
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:50,640
Speaker 2: this guy Mike Straka was.

781
00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:53,440
Speaker 3: The director to remember stroke Sure.

782
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:56,040
Speaker 2: Yeah okay. And then we'd bring in we I mean

783
00:43:56,680 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 2: Rick would bring in this like rag tag group of

784
00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:04,120
Speaker 2: you know, weirdos, including myself, would just come in to talk.

785
00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:06,080
Speaker 1: About explain every show on Fox.

786
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:12,560
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes it does. Yes, don't get me started.

787
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:15,480
Speaker 1: But what was that, Essie, Because that's interesting to me

788
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:19,160
Speaker 1: that that that must have been that what year was that?

789
00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:24,520
Speaker 2: It's around like, oh eighth nine, that's around in there.

790
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:27,640
Speaker 2: Because I'm just written a book and I my I

791
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:31,600
Speaker 2: wasn't interested in television. I was writing at the newspaper

792
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:33,920
Speaker 2: at the time. But my my publisher put me on

793
00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:38,719
Speaker 2: to promote the book, and you know, I could go

794
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 2: anywhere because I was unsigned, and so I did Morning

795
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:44,480
Speaker 2: Joe first, and then I did a bunch of CNN

796
00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:46,920
Speaker 2: with like Larry King, and then Fox started having me

797
00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:50,160
Speaker 2: on and they kept calling, and I found it was

798
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:53,320
Speaker 2: a great way to promote my writing and get writing jobs.

799
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:56,360
Speaker 2: And I found that I enjoyed it and it was

800
00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:58,839
Speaker 2: not you know, it didn't make me nervous. It was

801
00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:01,520
Speaker 2: like easy and fun, and I really liked it. So

802
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:05,600
Speaker 2: I kept doing it. But no, I desperately wanted a

803
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:08,680
Speaker 2: contract just for the stability, but I was told I'd

804
00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:09,359
Speaker 2: never get one.

805
00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:12,760
Speaker 3: So and you were told you'd never get one because

806
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:13,840
Speaker 3: you were too rational.

807
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:15,000
Speaker 1: I mean, what was that about?

808
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:22,680
Speaker 2: Well, when I met with somebody about.

809
00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:25,400
Speaker 3: Is it somebody who used to run the network?

810
00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:26,440
Speaker 2: It is?

811
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:29,680
Speaker 3: And are we not saying Voldemort's name anymore?

812
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:33,680
Speaker 2: Well, I don't, uh, I don't want this to be

813
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:38,920
Speaker 2: like and he's the reason I met with him. He said,

814
00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 2: we don't have we're not going to offer you contract

815
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:43,920
Speaker 2: and you know, it's just not in the cards. I

816
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:47,080
Speaker 2: wasn't really given an explanation, but I did hear later

817
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:54,600
Speaker 2: that one of the women anchors had been going around

818
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:58,920
Speaker 2: and telling executives not to hire me because I was

819
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 2: an atheist and she didn't like that and she didn't

820
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:01,640
Speaker 2: think it was good for the brand.

821
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:04,040
Speaker 1: Oh Jesus, I don't.

822
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:05,400
Speaker 2: Know if that had anything to do with it, but

823
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:07,839
Speaker 2: that's what I was told, because I was like, this

824
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:10,879
Speaker 2: is so weird. I'm on every day, four times a day.

825
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:13,600
Speaker 2: There's a reason they don't want to hire me, and

826
00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:17,040
Speaker 2: it can't just be money, Like there's a reason. And

827
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:19,359
Speaker 2: so I was asking around and my agent said, well,

828
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:23,240
Speaker 2: I found out and this is what this person's been saying.

829
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:26,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the only thing that makes sense, because that

830
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:31,680
Speaker 1: would have stopped the CEO of the network, the chairman

831
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:33,719
Speaker 1: of the network from hiring you. That would have been

832
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:36,560
Speaker 1: a deal breaker for him because he made decisions like that.

833
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:41,800
Speaker 2: It felt like that was the correct explanation because I

834
00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:44,200
Speaker 2: also knew what she had been doing behind the scenes.

835
00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:49,120
Speaker 2: And yeah, yeah, so it was fine.

836
00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:51,640
Speaker 1: It has that anchor had her come up and s

837
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:56,560
Speaker 1: yet yeah, well in a way, in a way, I

838
00:46:56,560 --> 00:46:58,640
Speaker 1: felt like there's a good, juicy story here that I'll

839
00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:00,560
Speaker 1: have to hear at the next Vinyl party. Yeah, unless

840
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:01,319
Speaker 1: you want to tell me now.

841
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:06,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I saw her recently. Listen, I'm in a much

842
00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:08,880
Speaker 2: better place than Yeah.

843
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:12,120
Speaker 1: Okay, I agree, as I don't think, I mean other

844
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:14,360
Speaker 1: than your bank account, which I think you should have

845
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:16,160
Speaker 1: been paid for the fine work that you were doing

846
00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:22,560
Speaker 1: because you always bring completely rational saying, insightful, interesting perspectives

847
00:47:22,600 --> 00:47:24,400
Speaker 1: to any show that you're on. So I wish that

848
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 1: they had paid you. But like am I do? I

849
00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:28,840
Speaker 1: think you should have been locked into a contract at Fox.

850
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:30,960
Speaker 1: No that, Yeah, I worked out.

851
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:33,920
Speaker 2: MS picks me up. I got a show in a

852
00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:36,360
Speaker 2: contract there, I got my own show, and then and

853
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:38,799
Speaker 2: then CNN for the past I don't know, thirteen fourteen years.

854
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:42,279
Speaker 2: So it's good it worked out. But I learned a

855
00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:44,400
Speaker 2: very hard and important lesson at Fox. I'm sure you

856
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:48,600
Speaker 2: and a lot of other women did too, all the

857
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:51,880
Speaker 2: stuff that we knew was going on with Roger and

858
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:57,120
Speaker 2: all of that. I think what I learned what really

859
00:47:57,160 --> 00:47:59,600
Speaker 2: scared me was I watched a bunch of women that

860
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:05,440
Speaker 2: we both now lose their jobs after they said what

861
00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:09,960
Speaker 2: they said and really like never work again. There's a

862
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:13,840
Speaker 2: couple of those, and even after the me too stuff,

863
00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:17,200
Speaker 2: I was like, Okay, maybe you can. Maybe it feels

864
00:48:17,239 --> 00:48:22,960
Speaker 2: easier to tell now, but if you're still worried, why

865
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:27,560
Speaker 2: won't be hired again? Or my identity now is like

866
00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:31,520
Speaker 2: Roger Ayle's victim number seven, Bill O'Reilly victim number four,

867
00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:35,960
Speaker 2: whatever it is, it defines you in a way. We

868
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:40,880
Speaker 2: saw this with some of Cuomo's accusers in t Cuomo's Accusers,

869
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:44,680
Speaker 2: you know, like it just you become this footnote and

870
00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:48,440
Speaker 2: so that still feels very unjust, but it's really the

871
00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:50,920
Speaker 2: lesson I learned watching what I watched at Fox. And

872
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:53,200
Speaker 2: I know you had some of those experiences too.

873
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:56,839
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry to hear that, because I had really

874
00:48:56,880 --> 00:49:00,640
Speaker 1: hoped that me too would change that stigma.

875
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:03,960
Speaker 3: I mean, I thought and believed and felt and had.

876
00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:08,279
Speaker 1: Some examples of when there's that many people, and it's

877
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:10,840
Speaker 1: that big of a ground swell. The problem is obviously

878
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:14,640
Speaker 1: not the women. Yeah, problem is the rotten predator.

879
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:15,000
Speaker 2: Yeah.

880
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:17,719
Speaker 1: And so I thought that with me too, thing that

881
00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:19,759
Speaker 1: you would be able to get not you, but I

882
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:22,040
Speaker 1: mean that women would be able to get hired. I

883
00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:24,640
Speaker 1: mean that was always the fear. Okay, So throughout the

884
00:49:24,719 --> 00:49:28,440
Speaker 1: eighties and nineties, that's why we didn't speak up, you know,

885
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:32,080
Speaker 1: and because you would never work again. But I hope

886
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:35,640
Speaker 1: something shifted after twenty seventeen, me too.

887
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:37,360
Speaker 2: And I don't know.

888
00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:39,200
Speaker 1: I mean, I just haven't I you know, because there's

889
00:49:39,239 --> 00:49:42,759
Speaker 1: been so many other, so many four alarmed fires that

890
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:46,240
Speaker 1: we've had to run towards. I haven't sort of taken

891
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:49,719
Speaker 1: the pulse of where we are post me to and

892
00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:51,440
Speaker 1: whether or not that's still happening.

893
00:49:51,520 --> 00:49:53,600
Speaker 2: I think it's become harder for men to act like that,

894
00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:56,120
Speaker 2: which is great, putting the com trails on and you know,

895
00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:59,719
Speaker 2: beefing up hr and just the fear that I think

896
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:04,440
Speaker 2: men have in acting the way that they did is

897
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:06,960
Speaker 2: two sides of a coin, right that it's good to

898
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:09,560
Speaker 2: be afraid to be assholes, but it's also bad to

899
00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:12,200
Speaker 2: be afraid to like just interact with your colleague, That sucks,

900
00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:16,560
Speaker 2: Or to like have a meeting, you know, with a

901
00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:20,560
Speaker 2: male executive like who doesn't want the appearances, that sucks too.

902
00:50:20,600 --> 00:50:24,040
Speaker 2: But no, I think there's still is a fear. I

903
00:50:24,040 --> 00:50:26,200
Speaker 2: think there's still is a fear that you won't be believed,

904
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:28,920
Speaker 2: or that the male talent will be protected and you won't,

905
00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:31,600
Speaker 2: that you'll be looked at, you'll be called difficult.

906
00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:32,719
Speaker 1: You know.

907
00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:35,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know that a lot of that has changed,

908
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:37,960
Speaker 2: which is kind of a bummer, but it just is.

909
00:50:51,160 --> 00:50:53,840
Speaker 2: Did you work closely with Megan Kelly?

910
00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:56,360
Speaker 1: She had an office down the hall for me, so

911
00:50:56,400 --> 00:51:00,359
Speaker 1: I never worked closely with her, but I saw her, what.

912
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:04,759
Speaker 2: Happened to her, what happened to her? I mean I

913
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:06,000
Speaker 2: was on her show and stuff too.

914
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:10,279
Speaker 1: You know. At some point I was watching one of

915
00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:13,279
Speaker 1: the I'm not watching. I heard tell I heard a

916
00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:17,760
Speaker 1: headline of one of the latest repugnant things that she said.

917
00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:22,399
Speaker 1: And I know that that good people. Here's what I hear.

918
00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:26,799
Speaker 1: People say. They try to go well Allison, is she

919
00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:28,520
Speaker 1: just in it for the money? Does she just know

920
00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:31,040
Speaker 1: that gets clicks? I mean, she's probably just she knows

921
00:51:31,080 --> 00:51:34,239
Speaker 1: that she's being a provocateur, So a good people of

922
00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:38,839
Speaker 1: conscience try to with all people, not just Megan Kelly,

923
00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:41,840
Speaker 1: with all people, Tucker with whomever, try to dismiss it

924
00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:44,960
Speaker 1: as this can't be the evil that I'm seeing. This

925
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:48,000
Speaker 1: can't be as repugnant and hateful as I'm seeing, because

926
00:51:48,040 --> 00:51:49,080
Speaker 1: that wouldn't be possible.

927
00:51:49,239 --> 00:51:52,040
Speaker 3: So it has to be sheer like avarice and greed.

928
00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:53,160
Speaker 2: As if that makes it better.

929
00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:56,239
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I think sometime times people do think,

930
00:51:56,360 --> 00:51:59,320
Speaker 1: like by at night at night, they know that that's

931
00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:00,000
Speaker 1: not the truth.

932
00:52:00,239 --> 00:52:02,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think at some point you.

933
00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:06,040
Speaker 1: Have to believe people when they speak words and over again,

934
00:52:06,280 --> 00:52:09,400
Speaker 1: to believe that, no, this is really how they feel.

935
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:11,920
Speaker 1: And so I guess I just have to I mean,

936
00:52:12,040 --> 00:52:13,960
Speaker 1: in other words, in terms of like the what happened,

937
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:16,000
Speaker 1: I don't know, but I guess I have to believe

938
00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:22,320
Speaker 1: that these hateful feelings towards other people were always there

939
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:25,640
Speaker 1: and that now there they can be unleashed in independent

940
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:27,600
Speaker 1: media a while.

941
00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:29,840
Speaker 2: Listen, I don't make what she makes, and subs I

942
00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:33,279
Speaker 2: assume you don't either, because I mean, we're just right.

943
00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:35,400
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know what I don't know what

944
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:38,600
Speaker 1: she makes, but there's no million page check it would

945
00:52:38,600 --> 00:52:40,840
Speaker 1: ever be worth it.

946
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:42,880
Speaker 3: But again, I don't think that. I don't think it's

947
00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:43,359
Speaker 3: about the money.

948
00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:45,600
Speaker 1: I think that this is truly I think you've tapped.

949
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:48,200
Speaker 2: A vain I think And I was going to say, like,

950
00:52:48,239 --> 00:52:51,560
Speaker 2: I can't, I can't tell you however much she is making,

951
00:52:51,800 --> 00:52:55,279
Speaker 2: I know it's a lot. I am so glad I

952
00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:58,640
Speaker 2: don't have to play in that sandbox with those people

953
00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:03,000
Speaker 2: having to be sort of the ugliest version of what

954
00:53:03,040 --> 00:53:07,480
Speaker 2: we do, just a grift. Who can only grift by

955
00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:12,400
Speaker 2: keeping their fan base like really angry and rabid and conspiratorial,

956
00:53:13,320 --> 00:53:16,560
Speaker 2: and who has to like keep feeding that beast with

957
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:18,760
Speaker 2: grosser and grosser content.

958
00:53:19,080 --> 00:53:21,240
Speaker 1: But that's my point, is that maybe it's not a grift.

959
00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:23,080
Speaker 1: Maybe we're seeing somebody's soul.

960
00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:25,760
Speaker 3: Maybe maybe we're seeing the true soul.

961
00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:28,560
Speaker 1: And it's so funny because you know, it's just not

962
00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:33,640
Speaker 1: the world that I live in. I don't meet hateful people.

963
00:53:33,719 --> 00:53:37,040
Speaker 1: I don't meet people who think that people should be shot.

964
00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:44,360
Speaker 1: I don't know disgusting repugnant young men who follow these

965
00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:50,160
Speaker 1: like hateful predator. Yeah, I don't. This is not this

966
00:53:50,280 --> 00:53:54,239
Speaker 1: is a sliver or the this like ring of hell.

967
00:53:55,040 --> 00:53:59,359
Speaker 1: I don't bathe in or have even access. I don't

968
00:53:59,360 --> 00:54:02,279
Speaker 1: even have eye is on this world. Like I know,

969
00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:06,640
Speaker 1: I know, it doesn't feel teenager is a completely fantastic

970
00:54:06,680 --> 00:54:10,480
Speaker 1: stand up kid. He has awesome friends there. He has

971
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:15,200
Speaker 1: male and female friends. They're all great, They're all people

972
00:54:15,239 --> 00:54:19,439
Speaker 1: of character. So like, I don't even understand this other

973
00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:23,759
Speaker 1: world that she's talking about or dwelling in.

974
00:54:23,960 --> 00:54:29,799
Speaker 2: Now. It really does feel it feels unreal because but

975
00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:32,799
Speaker 2: I know how many people are in this space, and

976
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:36,560
Speaker 2: it appeals to a lot a lot of people, but

977
00:54:37,040 --> 00:54:41,799
Speaker 2: it really is so gross and lamentable, and I just

978
00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:46,200
Speaker 2: I really can't wrap my mind around it. Can I

979
00:54:46,280 --> 00:54:49,400
Speaker 2: ask you about Tim?

980
00:54:50,120 --> 00:54:51,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, for sure.

981
00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:54,399
Speaker 2: When do you first learn that something's not right?

982
00:54:56,680 --> 00:55:00,279
Speaker 1: In September right around are maybe even our.

983
00:55:00,239 --> 00:55:07,359
Speaker 4: Anniversary, our twenty third wedding anniversary. September twenty twenty two,

984
00:55:08,560 --> 00:55:10,400
Speaker 4: Tim has a kidney stone.

985
00:55:10,719 --> 00:55:12,600
Speaker 1: It's very painful. He wakes up with a very painful

986
00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:14,680
Speaker 1: kidney stone, so painful that he decides to go to

987
00:55:14,719 --> 00:55:16,840
Speaker 1: the hospital because Tim would have toughed it out normally,

988
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:20,879
Speaker 1: and finds out, oh, yes, you do have a kidney stone,

989
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:23,840
Speaker 1: and you also have stage four pankrad of cancer and

990
00:55:23,880 --> 00:55:27,239
Speaker 1: without any signs, any warning. He just played the best

991
00:55:27,239 --> 00:55:29,600
Speaker 1: game of tennis that he'd ever played in his life.

992
00:55:30,280 --> 00:55:34,000
Speaker 1: And you know, I mean obviously from that moment on,

993
00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:37,879
Speaker 1: there was a grenade dropped in my life and our

994
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:41,800
Speaker 1: life and our family's life. You know, we haven't recovered

995
00:55:41,840 --> 00:55:44,600
Speaker 1: from and I'm not sure that we really I guess

996
00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:45,200
Speaker 1: we never will.

997
00:55:46,160 --> 00:55:48,520
Speaker 2: What were you told in terms of time.

998
00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:53,960
Speaker 1: That you know, with generally the course is six months,

999
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:57,520
Speaker 1: and with treatment you can you can double that.

1000
00:55:57,520 --> 00:56:02,359
Speaker 2: That's it. So you're living with a ticking time bomb.

1001
00:56:02,680 --> 00:56:04,240
Speaker 1: Absolutely, yes.

1002
00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:08,399
Speaker 2: Is there an urgency to keep things as normal as

1003
00:56:08,440 --> 00:56:12,720
Speaker 2: possible or is there an urgency to live every day

1004
00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:15,520
Speaker 2: like it's the last and you know, go on all

1005
00:56:15,560 --> 00:56:17,440
Speaker 2: the vacations, Like what's your mindset?

1006
00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:20,360
Speaker 1: Well, my mindset was the letter. My mindset was like

1007
00:56:20,920 --> 00:56:24,759
Speaker 1: let's stop with the dailiness, the mundane, you know, dailiness,

1008
00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:27,560
Speaker 1: and let's like blow it out and go, you know,

1009
00:56:28,280 --> 00:56:31,920
Speaker 1: check off our bucket list. And Tim's was the absolute opposite,

1010
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:34,920
Speaker 1: and he was like, no, this is the dream, Like

1011
00:56:34,960 --> 00:56:38,840
Speaker 1: you don't understand this. What we have here around the

1012
00:56:38,920 --> 00:56:43,040
Speaker 1: kitchen table every night with the kids, that is the

1013
00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:48,919
Speaker 1: apex of like the life experience and what we're searching for,

1014
00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:51,680
Speaker 1: and that's what we're gonna do. Like we're just going

1015
00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:55,879
Speaker 1: to keep our regular lives. Our kids were, you know, seniors,

1016
00:56:56,040 --> 00:56:58,200
Speaker 1: the girls were seniors and Nate was a sophomore. Like

1017
00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:01,560
Speaker 1: they had lives to live, they had to get into college,

1018
00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:04,719
Speaker 1: they had to apply to college, they had prom to

1019
00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:08,399
Speaker 1: go to, they had relationships to have and TI, it's

1020
00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:10,239
Speaker 1: like we're not We're not changing that.

1021
00:57:13,480 --> 00:57:16,040
Speaker 2: Hmmm, that's incredible.

1022
00:57:16,760 --> 00:57:20,120
Speaker 3: I know, I know, I now think he was right.

1023
00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:22,200
Speaker 1: I mean, I now know he was right because I

1024
00:57:22,320 --> 00:57:26,400
Speaker 1: used to catch, you know, during our marriage of like

1025
00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:29,880
Speaker 1: this is boring. When are we going on a vacation.

1026
00:57:30,880 --> 00:57:34,000
Speaker 1: I don't like day in, day out. I get up

1027
00:57:34,040 --> 00:57:36,480
Speaker 1: at three am and I go to sleep at eight,

1028
00:57:36,720 --> 00:57:38,840
Speaker 1: and I'm exhausted, and I don't want to go to

1029
00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:41,960
Speaker 1: the soccer game on Saturday. I used to, you know,

1030
00:57:42,880 --> 00:57:48,280
Speaker 1: just feel like that the monotony for me was hard

1031
00:57:48,320 --> 00:57:51,680
Speaker 1: because I am somebody who looks for peak experiences yea,

1032
00:57:52,280 --> 00:57:56,600
Speaker 1: and have had peak experiences and no one when I

1033
00:57:56,680 --> 00:58:00,680
Speaker 1: see it, and like the soccer game wasn't one, and

1034
00:58:00,840 --> 00:58:04,920
Speaker 1: so I you know, bitched about it, and like you know,

1035
00:58:05,120 --> 00:58:08,280
Speaker 1: of course I'm once again, you know, jokes on me

1036
00:58:08,520 --> 00:58:09,960
Speaker 1: about all that, and.

1037
00:58:09,960 --> 00:58:12,720
Speaker 2: Not to put too fine a point on it, but

1038
00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:18,440
Speaker 2: this is happening at a time when our business is

1039
00:58:18,440 --> 00:58:22,160
Speaker 2: blowing up and not you know, it's really changing. People

1040
00:58:22,200 --> 00:58:25,280
Speaker 2: are getting fired left and right, and it's moving really

1041
00:58:25,360 --> 00:58:29,920
Speaker 2: quickly and in ways that are uncomfortable. It happens at

1042
00:58:29,920 --> 00:58:33,720
Speaker 2: a time when women, in particular in our business are

1043
00:58:33,800 --> 00:58:38,600
Speaker 2: kind of in a precarious place because you know, you

1044
00:58:38,680 --> 00:58:40,640
Speaker 2: reach a certain age in our business as women and

1045
00:58:40,680 --> 00:58:44,160
Speaker 2: sometimes you're told okay, you're you know, move along. It's

1046
00:58:44,200 --> 00:58:47,320
Speaker 2: happening at a time whereas a woman just in general,

1047
00:58:48,880 --> 00:58:51,440
Speaker 2: big life changes and we've we've talked about you know,

1048
00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:55,400
Speaker 2: perimenopause and stuff on this show. So much change for

1049
00:58:55,480 --> 00:59:00,440
Speaker 2: you at once. How did you put all of that

1050
00:59:00,520 --> 00:59:03,280
Speaker 2: in a place to just get past it?

1051
00:59:03,840 --> 00:59:07,520
Speaker 1: Well, the three big changes for me for the way

1052
00:59:07,600 --> 00:59:12,960
Speaker 1: I see my life implosion and my attempt now to

1053
00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:18,360
Speaker 1: try to rebuild are losing my husband the same year

1054
00:59:18,400 --> 00:59:21,920
Speaker 1: that my job in legacy media goes away, which I

1055
00:59:21,960 --> 00:59:24,880
Speaker 1: was happy about because I couldn't, in my grief ever

1056
00:59:25,200 --> 00:59:27,680
Speaker 1: ever have done a daily news show.

1057
00:59:27,760 --> 00:59:29,480
Speaker 2: I remember you were like, reallyod, Yes, I was.

1058
00:59:30,160 --> 00:59:33,320
Speaker 1: So so I don't like, you know, so losing my husband,

1059
00:59:33,840 --> 00:59:40,880
Speaker 1: but the structure of my career go away, and my kids,

1060
00:59:41,040 --> 00:59:44,120
Speaker 1: you know, be leaving the nest and so you know,

1061
00:59:44,680 --> 00:59:48,320
Speaker 1: my son graduating high school. So like those three things

1062
00:59:48,360 --> 00:59:51,800
Speaker 1: that gave my life, like the organizing principles of my life,

1063
00:59:51,920 --> 00:59:57,920
Speaker 1: my marriage, parenting, and my career like vanish and then

1064
00:59:57,960 --> 01:00:00,200
Speaker 1: I'm just alone.

1065
01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:05,080
Speaker 2: You're just you yeah, yeah, how do you begin to

1066
01:00:05,160 --> 01:00:06,320
Speaker 2: piece it all together?

1067
01:00:06,960 --> 01:00:08,520
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not, you know, I'm in the middle

1068
01:00:08,520 --> 01:00:09,120
Speaker 1: of it. I'm not.

1069
01:00:09,480 --> 01:00:11,120
Speaker 3: I certainly don't have an answer.

1070
01:00:11,200 --> 01:00:14,560
Speaker 1: I just what I've done is gone.

1071
01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:19,800
Speaker 6: Where wherever I've thought that there might be some sliver

1072
01:00:20,360 --> 01:00:26,240
Speaker 6: of an experience or joy or laughter.

1073
01:00:26,120 --> 01:00:30,240
Speaker 1: Or connection, Like I just let that be my guiding light.

1074
01:00:30,320 --> 01:00:33,560
Speaker 1: Where when I get offers to go certain places, I

1075
01:00:33,600 --> 01:00:36,640
Speaker 1: have to be very mindful and like very methodical about

1076
01:00:36,960 --> 01:00:41,320
Speaker 1: will that fill me up? Will that add be additive

1077
01:00:41,400 --> 01:00:43,600
Speaker 1: to my life, or will it be exhausting? Like so,

1078
01:00:43,760 --> 01:00:46,400
Speaker 1: I'm so, you know, my capacity is so diminished, there's

1079
01:00:46,400 --> 01:00:50,400
Speaker 1: so much more cognitive fog. I'm physically so much more exhausted.

1080
01:00:50,760 --> 01:00:55,120
Speaker 1: I'm you know, just like I've I'm changed on such

1081
01:00:55,160 --> 01:00:58,360
Speaker 1: a like foundational level that I have to really think,

1082
01:00:58,400 --> 01:01:03,040
Speaker 1: like nothing is just automatic anymore. All Right, on Thursdays

1083
01:01:03,040 --> 01:01:05,520
Speaker 1: we do this. On Fridays we do like, I don't

1084
01:01:05,640 --> 01:01:08,960
Speaker 1: do that anymore. So I only go to things where

1085
01:01:08,960 --> 01:01:13,840
Speaker 1: I go. Will this expand the net like of what

1086
01:01:13,880 --> 01:01:17,040
Speaker 1: I'm trying of a new community? You know, I'm still

1087
01:01:17,120 --> 01:01:19,920
Speaker 1: the same person I was in high school of searching

1088
01:01:20,040 --> 01:01:23,760
Speaker 1: for a community to attach to and I haven't found it.

1089
01:01:24,120 --> 01:01:29,080
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. Yeah, well I know you're doing a thing.

1090
01:01:29,760 --> 01:01:30,480
Speaker 3: I'm doing a thing.

1091
01:01:30,680 --> 01:01:31,640
Speaker 1: So I have a retreat.

1092
01:01:31,720 --> 01:01:33,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I don't know if you want to talk

1093
01:01:33,080 --> 01:01:33,400
Speaker 2: about it?

1094
01:01:33,440 --> 01:01:34,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I do, I do, thank you.

1095
01:01:34,440 --> 01:01:35,840
Speaker 3: So a reinventioned retreat.

1096
01:01:36,280 --> 01:01:39,840
Speaker 1: This one's just for women. It's April tenth through twelfth,

1097
01:01:40,120 --> 01:01:44,320
Speaker 1: open to all, and it's you know, helping with There

1098
01:01:44,320 --> 01:01:46,160
Speaker 1: are a lot of people who are on a reinventioned journey.

1099
01:01:46,200 --> 01:01:50,080
Speaker 1: Mine is particularly acute because everything blew up. But a

1100
01:01:50,120 --> 01:01:51,919
Speaker 1: lot of people who are at a crossroads in terms

1101
01:01:51,920 --> 01:01:54,040
Speaker 1: of their career, in terms of their family, in terms

1102
01:01:54,080 --> 01:01:57,080
Speaker 1: of some rupture in their life, or maybe they're an

1103
01:01:57,080 --> 01:02:01,440
Speaker 1: empty nestor suddenly, and so it is in the Catskill Mountains,

1104
01:02:01,480 --> 01:02:07,920
Speaker 1: it's at this beautiful beautiful center that normally has sound

1105
01:02:07,960 --> 01:02:12,640
Speaker 1: baths and yoga and hiking, and so we're you know,

1106
01:02:12,680 --> 01:02:17,360
Speaker 1: we have different facilitators who are going to do art

1107
01:02:17,440 --> 01:02:22,280
Speaker 1: exercises and self assessment exercises for all sorts of women

1108
01:02:22,320 --> 01:02:25,360
Speaker 1: who are trying to figure out how you reinvent yourself

1109
01:02:25,400 --> 01:02:28,280
Speaker 1: at this point, I love that. Yeah. Thanks.

1110
01:02:29,920 --> 01:02:31,920
Speaker 2: Before we get to a lightning round to finish up

1111
01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:35,720
Speaker 2: this awesome episode, I just I love you.

1112
01:02:36,560 --> 01:02:37,760
Speaker 1: Thank you. I love you too.

1113
01:02:37,920 --> 01:02:38,880
Speaker 2: I really look up to you.

1114
01:02:39,600 --> 01:02:40,000
Speaker 1: Thank you.

1115
01:02:40,640 --> 01:02:47,480
Speaker 2: I'm grateful for your friendship me too. I'm grateful I

1116
01:02:47,480 --> 01:02:49,520
Speaker 2: got to learn so much from you as colleagues.

1117
01:02:49,760 --> 01:02:53,600
Speaker 1: I really am, thanks, sweeting, and that I'm.

1118
01:02:53,480 --> 01:02:58,280
Speaker 2: Still learning from you, you know. And as women in

1119
01:02:58,320 --> 01:03:01,800
Speaker 2: this business, we don't get a lot of the you know,

1120
01:03:01,960 --> 01:03:05,680
Speaker 2: and you're really one for me, and it's really grateful

1121
01:03:05,720 --> 01:03:06,080
Speaker 2: for you.

1122
01:03:06,560 --> 01:03:07,480
Speaker 1: Well, thanks, Hessie.

1123
01:03:07,480 --> 01:03:08,800
Speaker 3: I mean I think the feeling's mutual.

1124
01:03:08,840 --> 01:03:10,480
Speaker 1: I mean, I learn a lot from you too. I'm

1125
01:03:10,560 --> 01:03:13,840
Speaker 1: so impressed by how you are on the air, how

1126
01:03:13,920 --> 01:03:17,400
Speaker 1: you show up, how prepared you always are, and you're

1127
01:03:17,480 --> 01:03:20,520
Speaker 1: just such a sparkly presence. I love being around you,

1128
01:03:20,520 --> 01:03:25,200
Speaker 1: you know, off camera on camera, you're just a sparkle Okay,

1129
01:03:28,040 --> 01:03:29,400
Speaker 1: a mucusy sparkle.

1130
01:03:29,480 --> 01:03:33,880
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, not at this moment. Sure, Okay, I want

1131
01:03:33,880 --> 01:03:34,760
Speaker 2: to do a lightning round.

1132
01:03:35,200 --> 01:03:36,160
Speaker 1: Okay, okay.

1133
01:03:42,800 --> 01:03:45,600
Speaker 2: What does the misconception people have about New Jersey.

1134
01:03:47,440 --> 01:03:49,760
Speaker 3: That it's not the coolest sit in the Union.

1135
01:03:52,280 --> 01:03:55,840
Speaker 1: I mean, the misconception obviously is it New Jersey's just

1136
01:03:55,880 --> 01:03:58,680
Speaker 1: the turnpike, what exit, and that it stinks and it smelts.

1137
01:03:58,800 --> 01:04:00,880
Speaker 1: But all that's also true true. This is the thing

1138
01:04:00,880 --> 01:04:06,320
Speaker 1: about New Jersey. The the the much maligned aspects are

1139
01:04:06,480 --> 01:04:11,040
Speaker 1: also true in addition to being just cool and beautiful

1140
01:04:11,040 --> 01:04:15,200
Speaker 1: beaches the best beaches anywhere, and awesome people and awesome restaurants.

1141
01:04:15,200 --> 01:04:16,200
Speaker 3: So it's both things.

1142
01:04:16,600 --> 01:04:18,959
Speaker 2: My next question was, what's something that's totally true about

1143
01:04:18,960 --> 01:04:21,520
Speaker 2: New Jersey? And you're saying it's all it's all the same.

1144
01:04:21,520 --> 01:04:27,240
Speaker 1: It's all of it, it's all of it. But I

1145
01:04:27,240 --> 01:04:29,400
Speaker 1: would say that the funniest people I've ever met are

1146
01:04:29,400 --> 01:04:30,160
Speaker 1: from New Jersey.

1147
01:04:30,280 --> 01:04:33,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, okay, my mom, my family, my mom are

1148
01:04:33,440 --> 01:04:37,360
Speaker 2: from New Jersey. You I liked her Bill Hemmer or

1149
01:04:37,440 --> 01:04:38,560
Speaker 2: John Berman.

1150
01:04:40,400 --> 01:04:42,120
Speaker 1: Berman, I mean Berman all day long?

1151
01:04:42,400 --> 01:04:45,240
Speaker 3: And and I love you know the Hemster.

1152
01:04:45,520 --> 01:04:49,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, but and Bill Hemmer and I had a great rapport.

1153
01:04:49,600 --> 01:04:54,400
Speaker 1: He's a consummate newsman. But Burman and I, you know,

1154
01:04:54,600 --> 01:04:59,360
Speaker 1: connect on sort of many many levels, and our souls

1155
01:04:59,360 --> 01:05:01,760
Speaker 1: are intertwined fromorrow mornings at three am.

1156
01:05:01,800 --> 01:05:05,240
Speaker 2: You're so lucky that you got him as your work husband.

1157
01:05:05,600 --> 01:05:08,440
Speaker 2: I am. You're so lucky, and vice versa. He was

1158
01:05:08,440 --> 01:05:11,240
Speaker 2: so lucky to get you too. But like I've had

1159
01:05:11,240 --> 01:05:13,400
Speaker 2: a lot of work husbands. Some are great, some are

1160
01:05:13,480 --> 01:05:14,920
Speaker 2: pains in the asses.

1161
01:05:15,560 --> 01:05:19,200
Speaker 1: Oh trust me, I've been around the block with work

1162
01:05:19,240 --> 01:05:19,960
Speaker 1: husbands too.

1163
01:05:20,240 --> 01:05:21,520
Speaker 3: Burman is as good as they come.

1164
01:05:21,600 --> 01:05:25,840
Speaker 1: In fact, one little funny sidebar is that a few

1165
01:05:25,880 --> 01:05:29,720
Speaker 1: days ago, I get a text at early morning from Berman.

1166
01:05:29,800 --> 01:05:31,800
Speaker 1: He's on the air. Can you do a live shot

1167
01:05:31,840 --> 01:05:36,120
Speaker 1: with us right now about Don Leving? It's like, yes,

1168
01:05:36,360 --> 01:05:39,480
Speaker 1: I'm in my pajamas, but yes, for you, Ermin, I

1169
01:05:39,480 --> 01:05:40,240
Speaker 1: can do anything.

1170
01:05:40,400 --> 01:05:42,520
Speaker 3: And like I was live on the air on scene and.

1171
01:05:42,480 --> 01:05:45,200
Speaker 1: With Berman and it was wonderful, amazing about Don.

1172
01:05:45,320 --> 01:05:47,440
Speaker 2: I did see that. I did see that. Yeah, what's

1173
01:05:47,480 --> 01:05:48,960
Speaker 2: your favorite movie about the news?

1174
01:05:50,000 --> 01:05:58,760
Speaker 1: H bombshell? Well it's great, Okay, fantastic bombshell from May Whish,

1175
01:05:58,840 --> 01:06:01,160
Speaker 1: of course, was about the Roger Els era at Box

1176
01:06:03,720 --> 01:06:06,800
Speaker 1: was like a documentary. The first I went to a

1177
01:06:06,800 --> 01:06:12,760
Speaker 1: special screening of that Bela. I had spoken to Jay Roach,

1178
01:06:13,000 --> 01:06:16,040
Speaker 1: the director, and try to help in whatever little way

1179
01:06:16,080 --> 01:06:18,360
Speaker 1: that I could with my experience there. And when I

1180
01:06:18,400 --> 01:06:21,560
Speaker 1: saw it, I was like, oh, how did you channel

1181
01:06:22,040 --> 01:06:24,600
Speaker 1: that experience so impactable?

1182
01:06:24,760 --> 01:06:27,439
Speaker 2: Like they even got the interiors like it did right?

1183
01:06:27,680 --> 01:06:30,680
Speaker 1: I know, it was perfect, And I mean John Lithgow

1184
01:06:31,000 --> 01:06:34,920
Speaker 1: as Roger was spot on gross.

1185
01:06:35,160 --> 01:06:39,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it was great. Okay, good uh

1186
01:06:39,920 --> 01:06:42,880
Speaker 2: working girl or baby boom could only save.

1187
01:06:42,720 --> 01:06:44,439
Speaker 3: One working girl?

1188
01:06:46,240 --> 01:06:47,560
Speaker 2: Favorite story you ever worked on?

1189
01:06:49,480 --> 01:06:56,400
Speaker 1: Oh, my goodness, favorite story I ever worked on? Well,

1190
01:06:56,400 --> 01:06:58,200
Speaker 1: I'm sure it was just something that America's most wanted,

1191
01:06:58,760 --> 01:07:00,560
Speaker 1: America's most wanted where I worked for five years as

1192
01:07:00,560 --> 01:07:03,600
Speaker 1: a crime reporter. Yeah, you know, I was responsible for

1193
01:07:03,680 --> 01:07:09,840
Speaker 1: capturing my stories, captured you know, a couple dozen fugitives,

1194
01:07:09,080 --> 01:07:16,040
Speaker 1: and it was amazing and the gratitude and justice for

1195
01:07:16,200 --> 01:07:18,720
Speaker 1: the victims when the FBI couldn't catch them and the

1196
01:07:18,800 --> 01:07:22,080
Speaker 1: US Marshalls couldn't catch them, and little old Allison camera

1197
01:07:22,560 --> 01:07:25,840
Speaker 1: shows up with her microphone and her and W crew

1198
01:07:26,160 --> 01:07:29,480
Speaker 1: and that fugitive is nailed within twenty four hours. Was

1199
01:07:29,600 --> 01:07:33,600
Speaker 1: such a great, great, experience, life experience, and also just

1200
01:07:33,720 --> 01:07:36,640
Speaker 1: for me lesson about the power of television.

1201
01:07:36,800 --> 01:07:41,080
Speaker 2: Yes, oh, I'm sure that's awesome. What's the worst vacation

1202
01:07:41,120 --> 01:07:41,560
Speaker 2: you ever took?

1203
01:07:44,760 --> 01:07:49,919
Speaker 1: First vacation? Oh, I brought my daughters on a mother

1204
01:07:50,040 --> 01:07:55,360
Speaker 1: daughter trip to Miami a few years ago, and it

1205
01:07:55,400 --> 01:07:58,240
Speaker 1: was like the rainy season, and I forgot that there

1206
01:07:58,320 --> 01:07:59,720
Speaker 1: was a rainy season in my mother.

1207
01:07:59,840 --> 01:08:02,160
Speaker 3: To me, I just thought Miami was like sunny all

1208
01:08:02,200 --> 01:08:02,560
Speaker 3: the time.

1209
01:08:02,760 --> 01:08:05,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, And we were literally like pedaling our bikes through

1210
01:08:05,960 --> 01:08:09,400
Speaker 1: a driving rain and then getting in the taxi through rain.

1211
01:08:09,600 --> 01:08:12,200
Speaker 1: It just was not how I had build it. To them.

1212
01:08:12,320 --> 01:08:15,360
Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, yeah, when Florida turns on you, it turns hard,

1213
01:08:15,520 --> 01:08:16,679
Speaker 2: it turns hard. Yeah.

1214
01:08:16,720 --> 01:08:18,439
Speaker 3: I thought Flora's turned on all of us. Now it

1215
01:08:18,479 --> 01:08:19,840
Speaker 3: really has.

1216
01:08:19,600 --> 01:08:22,840
Speaker 2: It really has not keep up its end of the

1217
01:08:22,840 --> 01:08:27,320
Speaker 2: bargain from the Florida of my childhood. Yeah. Okay, this

1218
01:08:27,360 --> 01:08:29,120
Speaker 2: is the last question. It's the most important to us.

1219
01:08:29,200 --> 01:08:32,519
Speaker 2: We ask it at the end of every podcast. When

1220
01:08:32,760 --> 01:08:34,120
Speaker 2: is it iced coffee season?

1221
01:08:34,760 --> 01:08:35,040
Speaker 4: Hmm.

1222
01:08:36,439 --> 01:08:39,800
Speaker 1: Well, you won't believe this because we're in the middle

1223
01:08:39,840 --> 01:08:43,240
Speaker 1: of a deep freeze and it is the tundra in

1224
01:08:43,320 --> 01:08:45,360
Speaker 1: the northwest and northeast right now it is.

1225
01:08:45,400 --> 01:08:47,960
Speaker 3: But last night I was driving.

1226
01:08:47,640 --> 01:08:50,880
Speaker 1: Into my former boss in America's Most Wanted Birthday party

1227
01:08:50,960 --> 01:08:53,000
Speaker 1: in New York, and I had.

1228
01:08:53,040 --> 01:08:55,400
Speaker 3: Some leftover coffee and I turned it into ice coffee

1229
01:08:55,400 --> 01:08:56,000
Speaker 3: for my drawing.

1230
01:08:56,280 --> 01:08:59,439
Speaker 2: Yes, So the answer is when is it ice coffee season?

1231
01:08:59,640 --> 01:09:04,200
Speaker 2: It is last night or anytime you want it?

1232
01:09:04,280 --> 01:09:06,680
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, it's anytime you want it.

1233
01:09:06,760 --> 01:09:07,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, the correct interest.

1234
01:09:07,800 --> 01:09:09,639
Speaker 1: You're round, You're right, you're round.

1235
01:09:09,680 --> 01:09:11,200
Speaker 3: Okay, you're round here for any time.

1236
01:09:11,120 --> 01:09:11,920
Speaker 1: You want it. Yes.

1237
01:09:12,160 --> 01:09:15,160
Speaker 2: So I'm glad you said that it is the leading.

1238
01:09:15,080 --> 01:09:15,960
Speaker 1: As you were leaving the Witness.

1239
01:09:16,040 --> 01:09:20,000
Speaker 2: Yes, and so the word for that is anytime, all

1240
01:09:20,040 --> 01:09:24,479
Speaker 2: the time. Okay. Well, Alison Cameron of this was such

1241
01:09:24,479 --> 01:09:26,479
Speaker 2: a joy and such a pleasure, and I'm so honored

1242
01:09:26,520 --> 01:09:28,600
Speaker 2: that you came on the onto the pod and I

1243
01:09:28,760 --> 01:09:30,800
Speaker 2: just think you're the greatest and I can't wait to

1244
01:09:30,800 --> 01:09:32,519
Speaker 2: see you at the next final party or wherever we

1245
01:09:32,560 --> 01:09:33,240
Speaker 2: see each other.

1246
01:09:33,479 --> 01:09:35,840
Speaker 3: Sooner, I hope see You're wonderful. Thanks for having me.

1247
01:09:35,960 --> 01:09:36,519
Speaker 1: This was great.

1248
01:09:40,800 --> 01:09:43,240
Speaker 2: Off the Cup is a production of iHeart Podcasts as

1249
01:09:43,240 --> 01:09:45,679
Speaker 2: part of the Reason Choice Network. If you want more,

1250
01:09:45,800 --> 01:09:49,439
Speaker 2: check out the other Reason Choice podcasts, Politics with Jamel

1251
01:09:49,560 --> 01:09:52,479
Speaker 2: Hill and Native Land Pod for Off the cop I'm

1252
01:09:52,479 --> 01:09:55,839
Speaker 2: your host, Si Cup. Editing and sound design by Derek Clements.

1253
01:09:56,000 --> 01:09:59,720
Speaker 2: Our executive producers are Me, Si Coup, Lauren Hanson, and

1254
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:03,320
Speaker 2: Lindsey Hoffman. Rate and review wherever you get your podcasts,

1255
01:10:03,560 --> 01:10:15,799
Speaker 2: Follow or subscribe for new episodes every Wednesday,