1 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:15,160 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Odd Lots Podcast. 2 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:19,720 Speaker 1: I'm Joe Wisenthal. Unfortunately my co host Tracy Alloway is 3 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:24,160 Speaker 1: off today. That's because we scheduled this last minute interview 4 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 1: with a very exciting guest to have today. I'll be 5 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 1: speaking with ro Kana. He is the representative representing the 6 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: seventeenth Congressional district of California. It includes a lot of 7 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 1: Silicon Valley. He's a progressive Democrat, and what's striking is 8 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:44,320 Speaker 1: that he is, as far as I know, the only 9 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 1: House Democrat to have publicly broken off with Nancy Pelosi 10 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:54,280 Speaker 1: over the current stimulus negotiations. So, of course Nancy Pelosi 11 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:58,520 Speaker 1: and ongoing discussions with Steve Manuchin in perhaps an attempt 12 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 1: to get a deal done before the election day to 13 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:05,559 Speaker 1: spend more money to aid the economy. So far, there's 14 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:08,720 Speaker 1: a lot of debate. Speaker Pelosi has said that the 15 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 1: offer from the administration is inadequate, not necessarily so much 16 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:15,399 Speaker 1: about the dollar amount per se, but some of the 17 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 1: language in it. Basically all elected Democrats are with her. 18 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:23,680 Speaker 1: Our guest today, Rocana saying, you know what, Yeah, perhaps 19 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:26,280 Speaker 1: it's not a perfect deal, but it's worth getting the 20 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:30,000 Speaker 1: money out the door now, even if it's less than perfect. 21 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:34,839 Speaker 1: So we'll uh, I'll be speaking with the Congressman about 22 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:37,760 Speaker 1: his argument and why Pelosi should do a deal and something. 23 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 1: You should note that this is a fluid, ongoing story, 24 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:44,920 Speaker 1: so by the time you're listening to this, the situation 25 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:47,320 Speaker 1: may have changed. But as it is, we're recording this 26 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 1: Monday afternoon on the So Rocanna, thank you for joining us. 27 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 1: I ain't great to be on so so far, as 28 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 1: far as I know, you're the only elected Democrat, at 29 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 1: least in the House who has publicly said to the Speaker, 30 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 1: just take the deal. Why do you think it's so 31 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 1: important for the Democrats to compromise somewhat and get some 32 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:17,639 Speaker 1: money out the door now? Well, I said we need 33 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 1: to make a deal. I didn't say take the specific proposal, 34 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:23,080 Speaker 1: but I said, look, we do have to compromise. We 35 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 1: do have to get uh money to people. The food 36 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:30,680 Speaker 1: bank lines in my district are twice as long. People 37 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:33,880 Speaker 1: are suffering and not being able to make mortgage payment. 38 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:36,160 Speaker 1: I was talking to someone who's gonna lose their house. 39 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 1: They've run out of their four oh one k uh. 40 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 1: There's a concern that restaurants, small restaurants that many immigrant 41 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:46,360 Speaker 1: families owned may shut down, especially with the winter months. 42 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:48,880 Speaker 1: We can't wait till February. We can't wait for a 43 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:51,960 Speaker 1: new administration. And after I spoke out, a number of 44 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 1: others have spoken out, Tom Melanowski, Peter Welch, and quite 45 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:59,799 Speaker 1: a few others. So in your view as of right now, 46 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 1: and I mentioned we're recording this one day afternoon in 47 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 1: October nine, what do you see as the gap between 48 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 1: what the sort of the ideal to bill from your 49 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:13,399 Speaker 1: caucus would be and where the White House is? Well, 50 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 1: we had made a considerable progress, and right before this podcast, 51 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:18,760 Speaker 1: I was on a conference call with the Speaker, and 52 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 1: it looks like the White House has come, uh finally 53 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:24,839 Speaker 1: to recognize the need for a national testing strategy. They've 54 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:27,079 Speaker 1: come up to our seventy five billion that we need 55 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 1: for contact tracing and testing. Uh. It seems like they 56 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:34,079 Speaker 1: are uh finally agreeing to more state and local aid. 57 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 1: We were at four hundred thirty billion. There's still a 58 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 1: part on on that number. But we need language on 59 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 1: liability to make sure we're not compromising workers safety on 60 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 1: that issue, uh, And we need language to make sure 61 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 1: that the money that is being allocated actually is going 62 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 1: to working families, to small businesses, and isn't just going 63 00:03:57,320 --> 00:04:00,120 Speaker 1: to the discretion of how the Secretary wants wants to 64 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 1: spend it. It go further on that point, because this 65 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:09,160 Speaker 1: has been a controversial thing ever since Cares Act was 66 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 1: passed earlier in the year, This idea of discretion on 67 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:17,520 Speaker 1: the part of the Secretary of the Treasury, Minuchin, what 68 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:21,240 Speaker 1: are your big concerns with that in terms of allowing 69 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:25,360 Speaker 1: him to decide how a certain amount of cash gets spent. Well, 70 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 1: it could go to children, It could go to people 71 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:30,360 Speaker 1: in poverty. I mean people say, okay, what's twenty billion, 72 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:33,280 Speaker 1: thirty billion in the context of one trillion, I mean 73 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:38,360 Speaker 1: thirty billion dollars going to children in this country would 74 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:41,839 Speaker 1: make a dramatic difference in the poverty rates. It would 75 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 1: make a dramatic difference in terms of if we could 76 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:47,160 Speaker 1: get it to earn a catastrate a child testrion. So 77 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 1: the last thing we want to do is give this 78 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 1: secretary money which he may use to help airlines or 79 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:55,440 Speaker 1: may use to help executives. Uh. And people feel that 80 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 1: the people most in need didn't have it. Now you 81 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:04,280 Speaker 1: mentioned and liability. This has been a big priority reportedly 82 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:08,839 Speaker 1: for Majority Leader of the Senate McConnell, that businesses have 83 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 1: some sort of liability protection. What's your view and how 84 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 1: much is this a sort of poison pill that Democrats 85 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:21,800 Speaker 1: really just can't vote for if versus um something where 86 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:25,160 Speaker 1: there is potential for a compromise. I think there is 87 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 1: potential for compromising. The compromise that we have outline is 88 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:33,839 Speaker 1: very simple. Adopt worker safety protections as a safe harbor. 89 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 1: I mean, if you adopt the protections, if you say 90 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:39,239 Speaker 1: we're going to adopt a plan to keep workers safe, 91 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:42,719 Speaker 1: we're gonna have the appropriate ppe, we're gonna have the 92 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:46,920 Speaker 1: appropriate social distancing, and you comply with that, uh, then 93 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:49,919 Speaker 1: the liability is not going to be an issue. But 94 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 1: we're not going to give you immunity if you have 95 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:57,359 Speaker 1: no plan to keeping workers safe. Okay, So in theory, 96 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:00,720 Speaker 1: businesses can in your viewers should be able to get 97 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 1: some sort of legal protection under the stipulation that they 98 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 1: take worker safety seriously exactly. And and I think any language, 99 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 1: once you comply with the workers safety UH provisions, that 100 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:14,920 Speaker 1: provides a safe harbor. I mean, then if you're sued, 101 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 1: then you could say, no, Look, we complied with what 102 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:20,719 Speaker 1: Congress said. Actually is a safeguard for businesses. When McConnell 103 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 1: is saying, is just give them blanket immunity so that 104 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 1: if people come to work and get COVID, they have 105 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 1: no responsibility. Currently, the Ocean Statue of and this is 106 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:31,159 Speaker 1: getting a little in the weeds, but it has it 107 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 1: doesn't regulate airborne pathogen. So when McConnell is saying, is 108 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 1: that's your problems, like getting the cold. If you got 109 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:40,279 Speaker 1: to work and you get the cold, you can't sue, uh, 110 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:43,600 Speaker 1: the your employer. And unfortunately there's some Republicans who still 111 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:46,040 Speaker 1: make that analogy. But COVID is not the cold. It's 112 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:49,640 Speaker 1: a deadly disease, and we have to require that employers 113 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:51,880 Speaker 1: take basic measures. Particularly, I mean when you look at 114 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 1: Amazon and you know people in fulfillment centers where they're 115 00:06:55,880 --> 00:07:01,040 Speaker 1: packed almost like sardines and rapidly transmitting uh, the disease. 116 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:03,720 Speaker 1: The Amazon or other companies like that need to take 117 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:09,600 Speaker 1: preventive measures. So obviously we're literally two weeks out or 118 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:12,000 Speaker 1: two weeks in a day as we're recording this from 119 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 1: the election. How much anxiety, honestly is there on the 120 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:19,320 Speaker 1: part of Democrats about this idea of you know, quote, 121 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 1: giving Trump a win or giving McConnell a win at 122 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:27,120 Speaker 1: such a pivotal moment, especially with the belief that a 123 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 1: lot of people think there's gonna be a huge Democratic 124 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 1: sweep and the opportunity to pass the sort of perfect 125 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 1: bill at the Dream Bill come January. I don't think 126 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:37,880 Speaker 1: that's what's motivating Get for a couple of reasons. One, 127 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 1: I think this would be seen as a win for 128 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 1: the speaker. I mean, the House Democrats passed something five 129 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:46,120 Speaker 1: months ago, they passed something a month ago. We all 130 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:49,640 Speaker 1: know that. You know, Trump's advisor Cudlow was out there saying, oh, 131 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:53,440 Speaker 1: we don't need a stimulus, the economy is doing perfectly fine. Uh, 132 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 1: And that was wrong. And the President basically is going 133 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 1: to be passing Pelosi's bail. I mean, so I think 134 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 1: this would be seen a win in leadership for how Democrats. Second, 135 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 1: the human need, I mean, the the fact of the 136 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 1: matter is that you can't wait till February. I mean 137 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 1: the stock market can wait? Is stock market? You can say, look, 138 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 1: the odds are Democrats are gonna win and everything will 139 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 1: be fine February, And that's the expected value, but you 140 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 1: don't have expected value calculations if you're looking to put 141 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:24,600 Speaker 1: food on the table or meet your next rent bill. So, uh, 142 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:28,240 Speaker 1: the urgency of acting is is there as well? Right? 143 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 1: So earlier in the spring, of course, the House already 144 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 1: did pass a pretty substantial Phase four. I don't even 145 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:39,040 Speaker 1: know what phase we're on anymore, but another a huge deal, 146 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:42,160 Speaker 1: the Heroes Act. I think it was worth over three 147 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:46,960 Speaker 1: trillion dollars. If we do get a Democratic suite Biden 148 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:50,320 Speaker 1: in the White House, a Democratic Senate, do you think 149 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 1: that is basically, um, roughly what we could expect in 150 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:56,680 Speaker 1: terms of fiscal stimulus out of your caucus or could 151 00:08:56,679 --> 00:09:00,480 Speaker 1: it even be potentially bigger in your view? I think 152 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 1: we would even do something bigger because that that bill 153 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 1: didn't have a monthly stimulus checks. That bill didn't have 154 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:15,720 Speaker 1: sufficient infrastructure investment to create jobs. So I think there's 155 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:17,880 Speaker 1: gonna be a whole look at what is it going 156 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 1: to take to get the economy back on track? What's 157 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:22,600 Speaker 1: it going to take to create jobs now? If we 158 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:26,240 Speaker 1: can get uh some of it done now, then we 159 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 1: can come back for doing the remainder uh in February. 160 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 1: And I think that there's a large value in in 161 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:38,280 Speaker 1: in doing that, especially because you may have much greater 162 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 1: Republican opposition once you have a H. Joe Biden as president. 163 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:47,439 Speaker 1: So potentially any deal that's done now part of the election, 164 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:50,040 Speaker 1: or I guess theoretically in the lame duck could be 165 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 1: seen as kind of a down payment on something larger, 166 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 1: but allow allow some of the work to get done now. Yes, 167 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 1: I mean, because you don't, because, like I said, people 168 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 1: can't wait till February. And second, while I'm very confident 169 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:04,079 Speaker 1: Abiden and I'm hopeful on the Senate, I mean it 170 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 1: seems a big gamble to begin to say that, uh, 171 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:10,319 Speaker 1: we're definitely gonna win back the Senate, and let's say 172 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:13,280 Speaker 1: we don't. Let's say we have Biden and the Senate 173 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 1: is is still by one vote in Republican hands. Then 174 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:19,960 Speaker 1: what are we gonna do? So I just think that 175 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 1: there's too much writing on it. Let's get people relief 176 00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:40,400 Speaker 1: and then we can get done the remainder in February. 177 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:45,720 Speaker 1: Do you think that the Democratic Party do you sense 178 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:49,199 Speaker 1: a change in deficit phobia in your party? Whereas at 179 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 1: one point I think under the Obama administration, very early 180 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 1: on after the Great Financial crisis, there was impulse on 181 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 1: the part of the Obama administration to reign deficits, to 182 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:03,480 Speaker 1: talk about the important of getting them under control. Do 183 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:07,440 Speaker 1: you think that impulse um is less there and that 184 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:10,679 Speaker 1: the party feels comfortable about spending without apologizing for it. 185 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:14,920 Speaker 1: I got one this it's been necessitated by this this crisis. 186 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:17,440 Speaker 1: You know, I will say one of the most unpopular 187 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 1: votes I cast. I think it was one of two 188 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 1: or three people to vote against the Democratic Rules Package 189 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 1: in the beginning of this Congress because it had PAGO. 190 00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 1: And one of the arguments I made is Pago makes 191 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:30,640 Speaker 1: no sense as an economic matter. How can you pay 192 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:33,800 Speaker 1: for everything? What if we have a crisis, we may 193 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:37,680 Speaker 1: need to spend more than something costs, and it's just 194 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:43,079 Speaker 1: terrible economics. And uh, I you know, I was excloriated 195 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:46,040 Speaker 1: I think in uh certainly by certain colleagues. Why are 196 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 1: you voting against Pago. Well, it turns out that we 197 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:53,320 Speaker 1: had a pandemic, and now they're just suspending PAGO. Hopefully 198 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 1: this teaches us a lesson that we shouldn't have Pago 199 00:11:56,120 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 1: in in in future packages. I mean, the idea is 200 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:03,080 Speaker 1: that a government needs to be able to spend when 201 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:07,520 Speaker 1: interest rates are extranally low and when we have crises 202 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 1: and need fiscal stimulus. And of course Powell has made 203 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 1: this argument, and and I think this is where he 204 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:14,640 Speaker 1: makes a very He's a more conservative, and he makes 205 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 1: this argument better than I do. And he says, look, 206 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:19,440 Speaker 1: in a low interest rate environment, if you borrow the 207 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:23,800 Speaker 1: money and you spend it, you're gonna prevent further permanent 208 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:26,480 Speaker 1: damage to the economy because you may save some restaurants 209 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 1: and small businesses from going under. If you don't spend 210 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:32,560 Speaker 1: that money, you're gonna have permanent damage. And that permanent 211 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:35,920 Speaker 1: damage is actually gonna lower the the economic growth. So 212 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:38,760 Speaker 1: spend the money now at low interest rates, preserve the growth, 213 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:41,000 Speaker 1: and then, by the way, you can always pay it back. Now, 214 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 1: people will argue that government ments never pay back, but 215 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 1: theoretically there is no real economic case for not spending them. 216 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:51,120 Speaker 1: You know. One of the things that I think has 217 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 1: really struck a lot of people with the Cares Act 218 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 1: is that, and it sounds simple, but that putting money 219 00:12:56,480 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 1: in people's pockets is just an incredibly powerful tool, and 220 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 1: that it works very well. And we saw this pretty 221 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:07,360 Speaker 1: impressive rebound in spending and all kinds of positive economic 222 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:10,640 Speaker 1: outcomes as a result of that much rebound, much faster 223 00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:14,280 Speaker 1: than a lot of economists had expected. What about something, 224 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:17,040 Speaker 1: and where do you stand on sort of uh, permanently 225 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:21,480 Speaker 1: establishing more robust fiscal stabilizers so that we don't always 226 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 1: need to have a bill or a vote or cares 227 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:28,319 Speaker 1: act like situation where as soon as the unemployment rate 228 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:32,440 Speaker 1: starts to rise, we kick in nationally unemployment insurance on 229 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 1: a robust scale to start to balance out fight the downturn. 230 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 1: I think i'd be one of the smartest policies we 231 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:41,679 Speaker 1: could have. Bill Spriggs, who was an economists and the 232 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 1: Obama administration has been pushing this. In fact, I was 233 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:47,480 Speaker 1: working with him on such legislation before the pandemic. But 234 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 1: having automatic stabilizers, having some sense that things kick in 235 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:54,600 Speaker 1: just particularly to state and local government so that they 236 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:58,720 Speaker 1: don't have to lay off and on unemployment insurance and 237 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:03,679 Speaker 1: extensions in moment the crisis, I think would help alleviate 238 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:07,560 Speaker 1: the worst of downturns and make sure that we don't 239 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:11,320 Speaker 1: have these huge spikes in unemployment. Alright, I'll let you 240 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:13,000 Speaker 1: go in just a minute, but I gotta ask sort 241 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 1: of one question that's not related to this. Of course, 242 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:20,040 Speaker 1: your district, UM, your represent the seventeenth Congressional district. And 243 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 1: if you look at the names of the towns, there's 244 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 1: all the familiar Silicon Valley town Sunny Vale, Coupertino, Santa 245 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 1: Clara and so forth. Obviously, we've seen a lot of 246 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 1: Democrats really um get more aggressive about their calls for 247 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 1: big tech to be broken up, to be regulated more aggressively. 248 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 1: Tell me about the conversations you have with your constituents 249 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:45,440 Speaker 1: on this topic and why how do you view that 250 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 1: agenda in terms and in the context of representing the 251 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:52,200 Speaker 1: best the best interests of the people who vote for you. Well, 252 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:55,000 Speaker 1: we definitely need well crafted regulations. I mean, we have 253 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 1: to recognize the value of technology. I mean they're responsible 254 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 1: for some of the greatest in vations in the world. 255 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:05,240 Speaker 1: In our country, I think if the SNP five of 256 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:07,560 Speaker 1: its growth over the last five years have been some 257 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:11,960 Speaker 1: of these tech companies. They're fueling a lot of uh 258 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 1: economic activity in this country and helping even small businesses 259 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:20,400 Speaker 1: with which are now selling online and they're competing with 260 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:24,720 Speaker 1: ten Cent and Bai Do and Ali Baba and in 261 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 1: China on the other hand, we have to make sure 262 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:31,880 Speaker 1: that these platforms aren't abusing their own platform privileges. So 263 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:33,920 Speaker 1: I don't believe we should break them up. Of one 264 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:36,440 Speaker 1: thing I should do think we need to consider is 265 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:40,440 Speaker 1: to have a duty to deal with sellers. Uh. That 266 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:43,440 Speaker 1: means platforms shouldn't just have a presumption that they can 267 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:46,240 Speaker 1: do whatever they want on their platform and not allow 268 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 1: other people to sell or to use their platforms if 269 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 1: they have some form of monopoly power, some high concentration, 270 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:57,840 Speaker 1: I mean, too many people need these platforms, uh, and 271 00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:02,800 Speaker 1: they shouldn't have the arbitrary ability to deny access. I 272 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:06,320 Speaker 1: mentioned that the big outset. You're the first elected representative 273 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 1: to say do a deal, and not necessarily the deal 274 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:10,880 Speaker 1: that was on the table, but get some deal done. 275 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 1: As you mentioned, A couple of others um have now 276 00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:17,520 Speaker 1: said that why was that not a why was that 277 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:20,240 Speaker 1: a sort of minority position or why has that been well? 278 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 1: I mean we candid. I mean I think people said, oh, 279 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 1: are you hurting our sides negotiating posture? And and we 280 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 1: should just speak with with one voice, and and people 281 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:32,160 Speaker 1: you know, you don't want to say that we're willing 282 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 1: to compromise because we have to play hardball. I mean, 283 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 1: those were the counter arguments for for not speaking out. 284 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 1: And my view is that, you know, my first duty 285 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:44,880 Speaker 1: is to my constituents, and a lot of people in 286 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:47,280 Speaker 1: my constituency said we have to go get something done. 287 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:49,880 Speaker 1: And I have faith in Nancy plus that she's a 288 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:53,440 Speaker 1: very tough negotiator. Having members say we need to get 289 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:56,880 Speaker 1: something done is not going to uh compromise her ability 290 00:16:56,880 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 1: of getting the best deal. But I do think that 291 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:03,800 Speaker 1: the country wants members at least making every effort to 292 00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:07,440 Speaker 1: uh to come to some agreement. And in your view, 293 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:11,720 Speaker 1: Speaker Pelosi is negotiating with minutrition and totally good faith, 294 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:14,800 Speaker 1: with the desire to get a deal, not just because 295 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:16,720 Speaker 1: there's this perception that, oh, they just want to be 296 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:19,159 Speaker 1: seen as talking. No, I don't think. Look that I 297 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:22,719 Speaker 1: don't understand why Trump, who has been so inconsistent when 298 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:24,720 Speaker 1: at some point says I don't want to negotiate and 299 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:28,199 Speaker 1: another point says, go bigger, if you're serious about this 300 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:30,240 Speaker 1: at two point two trillion, where they're already up to 301 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 1: like one point nine trilliant, he could have just said, 302 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:35,320 Speaker 1: let's take what the Houses has done, I mean, and 303 00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 1: then it would have been very clear that they the 304 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:44,040 Speaker 1: negotiations were we're taking place. I mean, we couldn't reject 305 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 1: what we've already passed. So I think you've had a 306 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:49,200 Speaker 1: lot of the gamesmanship out of the White House and McConnell, 307 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:52,639 Speaker 1: and that's really been where the bulk of the problem is. 308 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:55,879 Speaker 1: That said, you know, there are people on our side. 309 00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:58,680 Speaker 1: We believe we have to compromise as well, and we 310 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:02,239 Speaker 1: want to get something done. All right, Rocanna, thank you 311 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 1: so much for joining us, and it should be uh, 312 00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:08,359 Speaker 1: we'll be we'll be watching. Thank Karen, thanks for having me. 313 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 1: And that was my conversation with the Representative Rocana. You know, 314 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:34,120 Speaker 1: of course by the time you're listening to that, um, 315 00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:37,720 Speaker 1: everything may have changed in terms of where we are 316 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 1: with the stimulus. But again we're recording this Monday afternoon 317 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 1: on the nineteen, So there you have it. This has 318 00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:48,480 Speaker 1: been another episode of the Odd Lots Podcast. I'm Joe Wisn't. 319 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:51,920 Speaker 1: You can follow me on Twitter at the Stalwart. Follow 320 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:55,480 Speaker 1: my co host Tracy Alloway on Twitter at Tracy Alloway. 321 00:18:55,880 --> 00:19:00,679 Speaker 1: Follow my guest on Twitter, Representative Rocanna, He's at Rep Rocana. 322 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:05,119 Speaker 1: Follow our producer Laura Carlson at Laura M. Carlson, Follow 323 00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:08,400 Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Head of podcast, Francesco Levie, and check out 324 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:12,080 Speaker 1: all of our podcasts onto the handle at podcast. Thanks 325 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:12,560 Speaker 1: for listening.