WEBVTT - The 100th Episode 'Strictly Business' Retrospective 0:00:06.720 --> 0:00:11.000 Welcome to Strictly Business, Varieties weekly podcast featuring conversations with 0:00:11.080 --> 0:00:14.800 industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. I'm 0:00:14.800 --> 0:00:17.160 Andrew Wallenstein, and I'm here to say this will be 0:00:17.200 --> 0:00:21.480 no ordinary episode. It's our one hundred installment of this podcast, 0:00:21.520 --> 0:00:26.120 which began way back on April three. To mark this milestone, 0:00:26.480 --> 0:00:30.360 I and my esteemed podcast partner, Cynthia Littleton, business editor 0:00:30.400 --> 0:00:33.040 at Variety, have decided to take a look back at 0:00:33.080 --> 0:00:36.360 some of the most memorable moments on Strictly Business. If 0:00:36.400 --> 0:00:38.320 you're new to this podcast, we think you'll find it 0:00:38.360 --> 0:00:40.440 a great way to get to know us, and if 0:00:40.479 --> 0:00:43.000 you're a returning listener, you hope you'll enjoy this stroll 0:00:43.040 --> 0:00:46.199 down memory lane. Now here's Cynthia with her first highlight. 0:00:47.080 --> 0:00:50.000 Hello from Cynthia and thanks for listening to this special 0:00:50.040 --> 0:00:53.320 episode of Strictly Business. One of the interviews I chased 0:00:53.360 --> 0:00:55.880 hard last year was the first sit down with Dana 0:00:55.960 --> 0:01:00.400 Walden after Disney completed its acquisition of Century Balks in 0:01:00.440 --> 0:01:04.040 March nineteen. I've known Dana a long time and I 0:01:04.080 --> 0:01:07.000 definitely leaned on that to persuade her to do her 0:01:07.040 --> 0:01:10.360 first major interview in front of a crowd at Variety's 0:01:10.360 --> 0:01:15.320 annual TV Summit in Los Angeles in June nineteen. Dana 0:01:15.400 --> 0:01:18.520 has long been one of the most powerful executives in television. 0:01:19.000 --> 0:01:22.000 She had no shortage of opportunities when the surprise sale 0:01:22.000 --> 0:01:24.640 of Fox came down. I wanted to know why she 0:01:24.760 --> 0:01:28.600 chose such an extremely high profile and high pressure job 0:01:28.680 --> 0:01:32.840 of leading Disney's TV Studios and ABC. You know, when 0:01:32.840 --> 0:01:37.480 I looked around and thought about companies which are fundamentally 0:01:37.600 --> 0:01:43.080 the phone company, a cable company, a retail company, um, 0:01:43.280 --> 0:01:48.160 companies where the tech started the businesses and then the 0:01:48.320 --> 0:01:53.400 creativity was acquired. Culturally, I think those companies are always 0:01:53.400 --> 0:01:55.600 going to be very different from a company that's been 0:01:56.120 --> 0:02:00.960 about storytelling for almost a hundred years and all started 0:02:00.960 --> 0:02:04.800 by a mouse. As often said, yeah, absolutely, let me 0:02:04.840 --> 0:02:06.840 ask you in the in the process of you know, 0:02:06.920 --> 0:02:10.880 making that decision, and and once you were you know, 0:02:10.919 --> 0:02:13.800 once once the industry was you know, was surprised to 0:02:13.919 --> 0:02:17.440 learn that the Murdocks were, uh, you know, considering open 0:02:17.480 --> 0:02:21.160 to considering a sale. Did during that period, did did 0:02:21.800 --> 0:02:23.880 the changes in the industry Did they crystallize in your 0:02:23.880 --> 0:02:27.480 mind in a different way when you knew that you know, Fox, 0:02:27.520 --> 0:02:29.320 which was you know, I mean it was such a 0:02:29.360 --> 0:02:31.720 shock because it was such a robust business rouper. It 0:02:31.760 --> 0:02:35.080 was a buyer, not a seller. Was that did you? 0:02:35.200 --> 0:02:38.120 Did you? Was that process a learning process for what 0:02:38.160 --> 0:02:40.400 you just described, like where you see the company going, 0:02:40.760 --> 0:02:43.800 I'm sorry, the industry going, yeah, no question. And you know, 0:02:44.639 --> 0:02:49.200 I think Rupert disrupted again. I mean, I think the 0:02:49.480 --> 0:02:52.800 narrative around is he a buyer or a seller? You know, 0:02:52.919 --> 0:02:55.680 he was a buyer at the time that people weren't 0:02:55.680 --> 0:03:01.320 acquiring you know, enormous station groups, or eyeing a studio, 0:03:01.480 --> 0:03:06.840 or launching a competitor to the broadcast networks, or acquiring 0:03:06.840 --> 0:03:11.600 the NFL on a pretty spectacular scale. That was disruptive 0:03:11.840 --> 0:03:15.640 at that time. I think what was disruptive, you know, 0:03:15.680 --> 0:03:20.040 in two thousand eighteen was him making an extraordinary deal 0:03:20.120 --> 0:03:25.519 to sell his company. And I do I do feel 0:03:25.600 --> 0:03:31.000 like our company got the benefit of seeing what the 0:03:31.040 --> 0:03:35.920 shortcomings are of the various streaming competitors, you know, what 0:03:35.960 --> 0:03:39.480 we can do that might be better, and again doing 0:03:39.520 --> 0:03:42.640 it at a scale that's kind of undeniable. This is 0:03:42.680 --> 0:03:48.880 going or is now arguably the biggest content company in 0:03:48.880 --> 0:03:54.560 the business, with you know, the second largest streaming platform 0:03:54.720 --> 0:03:59.520 in the business, with an incredibly robust plan to launch 0:03:59.600 --> 0:04:03.280 Disney Plus, which is you know you. I'm sure you're 0:04:03.320 --> 0:04:07.400 at investor Day and you just saw this incredible collection 0:04:07.680 --> 0:04:14.520 of beloved brands and content and original programming again situated 0:04:14.600 --> 0:04:18.119 really to win and having the ability to look at, 0:04:18.640 --> 0:04:21.240 you know, some of the missteps of our competitors. All 0:04:21.240 --> 0:04:24.120 of those things came together relatively quickly, but they all 0:04:24.160 --> 0:04:31.800 made great sense. If I had to pick one executive 0:04:31.839 --> 0:04:35.200 I find the most fascinating to talk to, it's got 0:04:35.200 --> 0:04:39.440 to be former HBO CEO Richard Plepler. He's responsible for 0:04:39.560 --> 0:04:42.800 some of the greatest series in TV history, but that's 0:04:42.800 --> 0:04:45.800 not why I regard him as the consummate showman. This 0:04:45.839 --> 0:04:48.440 guy puts on a show every time he opens his mouth. 0:04:49.200 --> 0:04:52.200 When I sat down with him in the Streaming Wars 0:04:52.240 --> 0:04:55.080 had barely begun, so it was a treatback then to 0:04:55.160 --> 0:04:58.479 hear him survey competitive field just beginning to take shape. 0:04:59.080 --> 0:05:00.800 And it's even more interest thing to look back on 0:05:00.880 --> 0:05:04.400 that conversation because now he's fighting for a different side 0:05:04.400 --> 0:05:07.560 in the streaming Wars, having launched a new production company 0:05:07.640 --> 0:05:10.160 with a first look deal at one of HBO's rivals 0:05:10.320 --> 0:05:14.160 Apple TV plus. I understand your bullishness, but let's take 0:05:14.160 --> 0:05:17.920 a step back and say the reality is the undeniable. 0:05:18.000 --> 0:05:22.240 The undeniable reality is is the competitive landscape you're facing 0:05:22.320 --> 0:05:25.240 right now is like nothing you've ever seen. Netflix alone 0:05:26.160 --> 0:05:29.760 spending at probably you know, possibly double what you guys 0:05:29.760 --> 0:05:33.000 are doing on just original content, not talking about licensing. 0:05:33.279 --> 0:05:38.120 Amazon right behind them, Apple coming. Your incumbent competitors like 0:05:38.160 --> 0:05:44.320 Showtime and Stars aren't fading fast anytime soon. So how 0:05:44.360 --> 0:05:46.360 are you going to be able to compete, especially when 0:05:46.400 --> 0:05:49.680 you're being outspent by a lot of these new players, 0:05:49.680 --> 0:05:55.280 not a lot, you know, our brand um is a 0:05:55.320 --> 0:05:59.680 magnet for talented people in the creative community. I feel 0:05:59.680 --> 0:06:03.440 like Ted Surrando says the same thing. Well he he, 0:06:03.440 --> 0:06:06.600 he does, and he's welcome to say it, and there's 0:06:06.600 --> 0:06:08.919 some truth to it. And they do very good work. 0:06:09.000 --> 0:06:12.159 And I've said publicly and I'm I've said it to 0:06:12.200 --> 0:06:14.479 them directly. Anybody who doesn't tip their hat to what 0:06:14.960 --> 0:06:18.400 those guys have accomplished in the last seven ten years, 0:06:18.440 --> 0:06:20.720 it just isn't being fair. They've done a terrific job. 0:06:21.160 --> 0:06:24.520 This is not binary. Doesn't mean there isn't going to 0:06:24.600 --> 0:06:27.040 be a good show on Netflix or a good show 0:06:27.040 --> 0:06:30.960 on Amazon. None of that has interfered with our growth, 0:06:31.400 --> 0:06:36.120 And I think the proof is in the pudding. Um. Again, 0:06:36.440 --> 0:06:40.600 despite the intensity of this competition, we grew more last 0:06:40.680 --> 0:06:43.520 year than in any year in our history, and we're 0:06:43.560 --> 0:06:47.200 growing and on track for terrific double digit sub revenue 0:06:47.200 --> 0:06:49.880 growth this year as well. So wouldn't you say, our 0:06:50.240 --> 0:06:53.400 game well and curate quality, and we will continue to grow. 0:06:53.600 --> 0:06:55.960 It's not a zero sum game. I was exactly That 0:06:56.080 --> 0:06:58.320 was the exact phrase I was gonna use. Don't you 0:06:58.360 --> 0:07:01.400 think even if you manage to do well while competitor 0:07:01.480 --> 0:07:05.360 B does very well, that competitor F, G and H 0:07:05.440 --> 0:07:09.120 may actually fall out. Aren't we in this consolidating world 0:07:09.360 --> 0:07:12.360 coming to a place where well, the lower brands are 0:07:12.360 --> 0:07:16.120 not going to make it? Listen, I do think that. Um, 0:07:16.160 --> 0:07:18.760 if you just look at your own lives and you 0:07:18.800 --> 0:07:21.720 look at you know, you have only a certain amount 0:07:21.760 --> 0:07:23.760 of leisure time, a certain amount of time you can 0:07:23.760 --> 0:07:27.480 watch movies, watch television beyond the computer you make, you make, 0:07:28.920 --> 0:07:32.880 you make judgments, you make picks, and Um, the key 0:07:32.960 --> 0:07:35.680 for us is to keep the halo on our brand 0:07:36.200 --> 0:07:40.120 so that when people do have discretionary time, they are 0:07:40.160 --> 0:07:43.000 comfortable that we are fulfilling our promise to deliver excells 0:07:43.000 --> 0:07:45.160 and they come. They might not love everything, but they 0:07:45.240 --> 0:07:48.679 certainly think that for fifteen dollars a month, three thousand 0:07:48.920 --> 0:07:51.840 hours of library, the wide range of programming which we 0:07:51.920 --> 0:07:55.000 make for Hollywood movie studios, people end up saying, you 0:07:55.000 --> 0:08:02.640 know what, that's a pretty good price value proposition. David 0:08:02.720 --> 0:08:06.280 Zaslov is one of the most accessible media CEOs and 0:08:06.400 --> 0:08:08.840 one of the most articulate about where he thinks the 0:08:08.880 --> 0:08:13.280 content business is heading. David is competitive, but also thoughtful 0:08:13.320 --> 0:08:16.840 about the industry and how he sizes up the competitive landscape. 0:08:17.360 --> 0:08:19.800 He's learned a lot over the years from John Malone, 0:08:20.160 --> 0:08:23.360 the legendary media investor who has a big personal stake 0:08:23.400 --> 0:08:27.360 and discovery. When Zaslov used the M word early on 0:08:27.440 --> 0:08:30.280 in this interview at his New York office in November 0:08:30.320 --> 0:08:33.760 two thousand eighteen, my ears perked up. We were having 0:08:33.840 --> 0:08:36.679 quite a run as a traditional media company. When I say, 0:08:36.720 --> 0:08:41.880 we were more cable and free to air around the world. Um, 0:08:42.000 --> 0:08:44.400 I've been here for twelve years, and for the first 0:08:44.480 --> 0:08:46.920 seven years we had a you know, an extraordinary run 0:08:47.120 --> 0:08:50.400 both in the market and growth growth around the world 0:08:50.400 --> 0:08:53.680 and here in the US. UM. But I remember a 0:08:53.720 --> 0:08:57.840 conversation I had with John Malone five years ago. Our 0:08:57.920 --> 0:09:00.680 channels were growing double digit around the world in terms 0:09:00.760 --> 0:09:05.719 of viewership and uh, and our performance was strong. Our 0:09:05.760 --> 0:09:09.800 company had grown, stock had grown from about twelve dollars 0:09:09.840 --> 0:09:14.079 to eighty or eighty five dollars, so we really felt 0:09:14.120 --> 0:09:16.559 like we were in stride. And John and I talked 0:09:16.559 --> 0:09:21.280 about the future and uh. He turned to me and 0:09:21.280 --> 0:09:24.240 he said, Okay, we've grown all of our share. Um, 0:09:24.480 --> 0:09:27.840 how well would we do if people could watch anything? 0:09:29.559 --> 0:09:34.280 And I thought for a moment, and I said, uh, 0:09:36.440 --> 0:09:38.679 We've made a lot of progress in the last seven years. 0:09:38.880 --> 0:09:41.080 We went from five percent of viewership in the US 0:09:41.160 --> 0:09:43.960 to thirteen And I said, I think we'd probably be 0:09:44.040 --> 0:09:48.320 back to five because a lot of our content, it's 0:09:48.360 --> 0:09:53.040 great quality content, but it's second choice a lot of it, 0:09:53.120 --> 0:09:55.720 and our brands aren't strong enough. And so it was 0:09:55.800 --> 0:09:58.400 that day five years ago that we began the fight 0:09:58.480 --> 0:10:03.160 to change ourselves from a tradition media company to add 0:10:03.200 --> 0:10:06.360 a global I P company, And we started to change 0:10:06.640 --> 0:10:09.680 the kind of content that we bought produced, and we 0:10:09.840 --> 0:10:14.000 changed the way we looked at our brands and UH. 0:10:15.000 --> 0:10:17.680 That journey got us into sports in Europe, where we 0:10:17.720 --> 0:10:21.280 bought Eurosport two to three sports channels. It was one 0:10:21.320 --> 0:10:23.880 of the reasons we bought the Olympics. In each case, 0:10:24.000 --> 0:10:26.319 the question was not how would this do at eight 0:10:26.320 --> 0:10:30.640 o'clock at night, but as this content that people would 0:10:30.679 --> 0:10:32.880 watch if they could watch anything. And in the last 0:10:33.000 --> 0:10:39.400 year or two it's gotten really a more a tougher question, 0:10:39.440 --> 0:10:42.840 which is will people pay for this content before they'll 0:10:42.840 --> 0:10:46.440 pay for dinner. That's why we bought the rights to 0:10:46.760 --> 0:10:51.559 the PGA Tour everywhere in the world outside the US. UH, 0:10:51.559 --> 0:10:53.720 that's why we bought most of the cycling in Europe 0:10:53.760 --> 0:10:56.280 and most and all the majors in tennis, and that's 0:10:56.320 --> 0:11:00.800 why we're doubling down and continuing to invest aggressively with 0:11:00.840 --> 0:11:04.839 Oprah and candidly. That's why we bought Scripts and this 0:11:05.000 --> 0:11:06.800 has been a great growth here. But we were a 0:11:06.840 --> 0:11:10.520 misunderstood company because when we bought Scripts, people thought we 0:11:10.600 --> 0:11:13.960 bought Scripts to get more linear channels and to get synergy. 0:11:14.200 --> 0:11:17.520 We saw Scripts as an I P company that hadn't 0:11:17.600 --> 0:11:22.360 been really UH, that hadn't been taken advantage of globally. 0:11:22.679 --> 0:11:27.720 So we saw it as food, home, cooking, travel and 0:11:27.720 --> 0:11:31.360 and uh and do it yourself. They owned all that 0:11:31.440 --> 0:11:35.200 content and hadn't been used globally. But but not just 0:11:35.320 --> 0:11:39.040 as a linear play. But in the new world, when 0:11:39.040 --> 0:11:41.440 you look at food, when you look at home, aren't 0:11:41.440 --> 0:11:46.640 people gonna want to consume content around those genres everywhere 0:11:46.640 --> 0:11:51.720 in the world on all devices and so um, it's 0:11:51.760 --> 0:11:53.560 been five years and we got a long way to 0:11:53.600 --> 0:11:56.719 go and a lot to learn, but we are in 0:11:56.920 --> 0:12:01.080 We made a real I think, uh, we've had some 0:12:01.080 --> 0:12:05.559 some real acceleration in in changing the way our company 0:12:05.640 --> 0:12:08.840 is seen and saying and the way our content is 0:12:08.920 --> 0:12:11.440 consumed here in the US and around the world. And 0:12:11.480 --> 0:12:14.840 that's why I think our Stakas has has really improved. 0:12:19.720 --> 0:12:22.560 We get a lot of executives and creatives on this podcast, 0:12:23.040 --> 0:12:25.160 but every once in a while we also make time 0:12:25.200 --> 0:12:29.839 for talent. Tyra Banks, Steve Harvey, and Gabrielle Union are 0:12:29.880 --> 0:12:33.040 just a few names you'll recognize. But true to the 0:12:33.080 --> 0:12:35.920 strictly business brand, we didn't talk to these people so 0:12:35.960 --> 0:12:38.320 they could promote their latest projects or tell us who 0:12:38.360 --> 0:12:41.120 they're dating. Let's be honest, there's way too many media 0:12:41.160 --> 0:12:44.600 outlets covering that what we hear less about is the 0:12:44.679 --> 0:12:47.800 business side of celebrity, And what we learned in the 0:12:47.800 --> 0:12:51.640 occasional conversation with performers on this podcast is that many 0:12:51.640 --> 0:12:55.120 of them are every bit the entrepreneur that they are artists, 0:12:55.640 --> 0:12:57.679 and at a time when the paychecks aren't what they 0:12:57.760 --> 0:13:00.440 used to be for Hollywood talent, men of them have 0:13:00.559 --> 0:13:04.559 carved out lucrative side hustles inside and outside of entertainment. 0:13:05.240 --> 0:13:07.240 It was something that began dawning on me in the 0:13:07.480 --> 0:13:10.800 very first episode of Strictly Business when I sat down 0:13:10.800 --> 0:13:14.600 with one of Hollywood's most bankable actors, Kevin Hart, who 0:13:14.600 --> 0:13:17.760 spoke pretty bluntly about his aspirations to not just act, 0:13:18.160 --> 0:13:21.720 but build out an empire. So it sounds like you're 0:13:21.880 --> 0:13:25.199 kind of in the middle of this journey in terms 0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:28.559 of the empire that you're building. I mean, where does 0:13:28.600 --> 0:13:31.040 it go next or there? Or what mountains are you 0:13:31.080 --> 0:13:33.520 looking to conquer? Areas of content you haven't even gone 0:13:33.520 --> 0:13:36.680 to yet. Man, Well, I mean, look, I'm I'm The 0:13:36.720 --> 0:13:38.880 goal of being a mogul was a real one, you know. 0:13:39.559 --> 0:13:41.679 I want to be a mogul. I want to be 0:13:41.720 --> 0:13:44.480 a billionaire. I want to get to a point where 0:13:44.720 --> 0:13:47.200 you look back and you go, damn, this is a 0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:51.360 little dirty kid from Philadelphia that had no idea, uh 0:13:51.440 --> 0:13:54.640 you know, where his life was going to go. And 0:13:54.760 --> 0:13:57.240 once I got an anklet of what I could do, 0:13:57.360 --> 0:13:59.360 I made a decision to give it a hundred percent. 0:13:59.720 --> 0:14:03.200 I got forty people on staff right now. You know 0:14:03.280 --> 0:14:06.440 when I look up and I'm responsible for people's lives 0:14:06.440 --> 0:14:09.200 and livelihoods, and that's a That's a big thing to me, 0:14:09.760 --> 0:14:12.200 the fact that I know that I'm in position to 0:14:12.240 --> 0:14:15.559 do that, and that these people believe in this vision. 0:14:15.600 --> 0:14:17.760 These people are giving me a hundred percent because they 0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:20.880 say we're gonna follow you, keV into the will's fall off, 0:14:20.920 --> 0:14:24.160 because the passion behind your drive and dream is real. 0:14:24.680 --> 0:14:27.040 To me, that's the biggest thing in the world. So 0:14:27.360 --> 0:14:29.600 you know, when I when I have these meetings with 0:14:29.640 --> 0:14:32.480 my team, with my staff, I'm not just selling you 0:14:32.520 --> 0:14:34.920 on today's work. I'm selling you on the future of 0:14:34.960 --> 0:14:39.040 what we can be. Heartbeat Productions will be a big partner. 0:14:39.160 --> 0:14:44.440 Heartbeat Productions will do big studio work. Heartbeat Productions will 0:14:44.640 --> 0:14:50.240 be tomorrow's future company when it comes to development and 0:14:50.240 --> 0:14:54.360 and producing for for any type of film, from comedy 0:14:54.480 --> 0:14:56.800 to to you know your dramas. I want to do 0:14:56.840 --> 0:14:59.200 it all. I can't sit back and watch other people 0:14:59.640 --> 0:15:02.320 be said cessful and give me a blueprint and not 0:15:02.560 --> 0:15:05.680 do it. I just can't. I have too many relationships 0:15:05.920 --> 0:15:08.360 where they let me know how they got there, from 0:15:08.400 --> 0:15:11.600 Oprah to Thailer, to jay Z to Ellen. I have 0:15:11.720 --> 0:15:14.200 too many people in front of me that are doing 0:15:14.480 --> 0:15:18.160 too many amazing things that say this is how I 0:15:18.280 --> 0:15:25.600 did it. For me not to do it. The media 0:15:25.680 --> 0:15:29.520 and entertainment marketplace has transformed into the land of the 0:15:29.560 --> 0:15:32.960 giants over the past twenty years, but every business has 0:15:33.000 --> 0:15:36.200 to start small at some point. I'm always interested to 0:15:36.280 --> 0:15:40.320 hear from entrepreneurs and independent operators about how they're able 0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:44.080 to compete against giant conglomerates in a world whereas we know, 0:15:44.440 --> 0:15:50.520 size matters. Romancanna, CEO of Shaun Combs's Revolt Media company, 0:15:51.120 --> 0:15:54.280 was blunt about the uphill climb of running an independent, 0:15:54.400 --> 0:15:58.480 single cable channel. Revolt TV was born as part of 0:15:58.480 --> 0:16:02.000 a wave of upstart Cape channels in two thousand thirteen, 0:16:02.520 --> 0:16:06.280 when Comcast had to give carriage deals to independent and 0:16:06.400 --> 0:16:10.640 minority owned channels on its cable systems as a condition 0:16:10.720 --> 0:16:15.480 of allowing Comcast to buy NBCUniversal. That sounds like a 0:16:15.520 --> 0:16:18.520 good way to nurture new and diverse owners in the 0:16:18.560 --> 0:16:22.920 TV marketplace, but in reality, it's not that simple. As 0:16:23.000 --> 0:16:27.880 kind of explained in August two thousand nineteen, it all 0:16:28.120 --> 0:16:32.520 started with the right thinking, and you know, we're grateful 0:16:32.560 --> 0:16:35.040 for that. We wouldn't exist but for that. So so 0:16:35.200 --> 0:16:38.160 absolutely is the answer. But you know, I think the 0:16:38.280 --> 0:16:41.680 challenges is that the idea of trying to embrace diversity 0:16:41.720 --> 0:16:45.200 and creating an equal opportunity playing field for voices to 0:16:45.760 --> 0:16:50.560 proliferate really runs into a problem when it's the first 0:16:50.600 --> 0:16:54.400 step of a hundred step race that is unlocked, but 0:16:54.520 --> 0:16:57.800 the next steps still needs support. So we don't have 0:16:57.880 --> 0:17:02.280 full distribution on on most systems comp class Comcast included 0:17:02.760 --> 0:17:04.919 UM and we'd love to have that, but that you know, 0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:08.080 these companies are struggling with their own um you know, 0:17:08.160 --> 0:17:11.000 metrics as they measure their basic packages and their extended 0:17:11.040 --> 0:17:15.239 basic packages. And for us to then compete on an 0:17:15.440 --> 0:17:17.960 on an equal playing field with companies that have got 0:17:18.080 --> 0:17:22.560 better distribution, have been around longer, have have better leverage 0:17:22.560 --> 0:17:25.480 in terms of the portfolios that they're part of. You know, 0:17:25.680 --> 0:17:28.760 that becomes a tough story. It's that, you know, if 0:17:28.880 --> 0:17:31.440 if we want to support diversity of voices in any 0:17:31.480 --> 0:17:35.000 way and in any platform, it can't always just be 0:17:35.119 --> 0:17:38.240 step one and then to be measured by the same 0:17:38.240 --> 0:17:42.240 measuring sticks of companies that have been around for longer, 0:17:42.680 --> 0:17:45.240 in better times and have made it past step one 0:17:45.600 --> 0:17:49.760 into step seventy three. Um, Yet we will get the well, 0:17:50.080 --> 0:17:54.000 you know, your traffic compared to you know MTVS traffic, 0:17:54.400 --> 0:17:56.760 It's not it's not a fair comparison at this moment 0:17:56.760 --> 0:17:58.880 in time, and if you measure us by that stick, 0:17:58.960 --> 0:18:01.520 we will always fail for the next number of years. 0:18:01.600 --> 0:18:04.240 So if we really want diversity, what are the measuring 0:18:04.280 --> 0:18:07.800 tools we're using to allow these voices to grow and 0:18:07.840 --> 0:18:11.840 then truly compete um in a very difficult world of competition. 0:18:11.880 --> 0:18:15.040 I mean, it's it's tough out there, and we understand that. 0:18:15.160 --> 0:18:21.200 We just we want a shot at it. Before we 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:23.440 continue with this retrospective, I want to tell you about 0:18:23.440 --> 0:18:26.560 an upcoming variety event. Would you and your team like 0:18:26.680 --> 0:18:29.080 to be the first to learn emerging trends shaping the 0:18:29.200 --> 0:18:35.240 entertainment industry's largest marketing campaigns On March, Varieties Entertainment Marketing 0:18:35.280 --> 0:18:39.240 Summit is bringing together top cmos and digital leaders from 0:18:39.280 --> 0:18:43.439 brands like Disney, Hbo, Instagram and more to discuss how 0:18:43.480 --> 0:18:47.560 their revolutionary ideas have changed the landscape of Hollywood. With 0:18:47.600 --> 0:18:51.160 panels that explore the future of omni channel marketing and 0:18:51.520 --> 0:18:54.960 modern formulas to connect with audiences, you will have a 0:18:55.080 --> 0:18:57.680 one of a kind opportunity to listen in on thought 0:18:57.720 --> 0:19:02.440 provoking discussions that are immediately affecting your industry. Visit Variety 0:19:02.520 --> 0:19:05.919 dot com Slash Marketing Summit to register you and your 0:19:05.960 --> 0:19:09.760 team today and see you on March. Now, let's get 0:19:09.760 --> 0:19:12.879 back to the podcast. Strictly, business tries to stay on 0:19:12.960 --> 0:19:16.240 top of the latest developments in the industry, but sometimes 0:19:16.240 --> 0:19:19.000 the industry can move faster than we do. That's what 0:19:19.080 --> 0:19:22.960 happened in June when just twenty four hours before I 0:19:23.000 --> 0:19:25.440 was going to release an episode featuring an interview with 0:19:25.560 --> 0:19:29.840 Condon Nast Entertainment CEO Don Ostrov, she announced she had 0:19:29.920 --> 0:19:33.400 left Conde Nast for a big new job at Spotify. 0:19:33.520 --> 0:19:36.520 We published the interview anyway, of course, and in truth 0:19:36.960 --> 0:19:40.320 the challenges she spoke of adapting to digital media after 0:19:40.359 --> 0:19:43.560 a long career in TV proved just as relevant to 0:19:43.600 --> 0:19:46.240 her now that she's in yet another very different world 0:19:46.560 --> 0:19:50.960 creating audio programming. Your career, you spend most of the 0:19:51.040 --> 0:19:55.600 time shepherding these traditional long form things, and now you're saying, 0:19:55.920 --> 0:19:58.280 you're programming to a platform where the old rules just 0:19:58.359 --> 0:20:01.080 don't apply. So how are you learn in the new rules? 0:20:01.080 --> 0:20:03.280 It has been an m b A for me, I 0:20:03.320 --> 0:20:06.760 mean it, and it's so humbling because honestly, I came 0:20:06.800 --> 0:20:11.320 into this opportunity thinking I can do this because if 0:20:11.359 --> 0:20:13.840 you have success on traditional and you you know, gossip 0:20:13.840 --> 0:20:17.159 Girl at one point was the biggest show in the country, right, 0:20:17.280 --> 0:20:21.520 every young person talked about it, you know, read everything 0:20:21.560 --> 0:20:25.120 that they could get their hands on about about our cast. Um. 0:20:25.160 --> 0:20:28.480 But it really was eye opening to understand that the 0:20:28.520 --> 0:20:31.600 way in which we make the content for the digital 0:20:31.600 --> 0:20:34.120 space has nothing to do with the way we would 0:20:34.200 --> 0:20:38.280 create television ideas. Um. You know, it's it. There's there's 0:20:38.400 --> 0:20:41.919 a understanding of what the viewer expectation is when they're 0:20:41.920 --> 0:20:45.199 watching content on any one of those platforms, and you 0:20:45.280 --> 0:20:48.640 have to really adhere to be either a format that 0:20:49.000 --> 0:20:52.840 is the expectation, or a storytelling style or a way 0:20:52.840 --> 0:20:56.040 in which you shoot something that really does help determ 0:20:56.040 --> 0:20:57.679 and if something is going to be a success or 0:20:57.720 --> 0:21:00.240 not and qualities quality, So it has to be good 0:21:00.280 --> 0:21:03.040 and has to be worthy of people's time. But it 0:21:03.119 --> 0:21:07.880 really is very very specific about how the storyteller and 0:21:07.920 --> 0:21:11.359 how the the director really does bring that story to 0:21:11.440 --> 0:21:18.960 life on those platforms. Christina Wayne is a well regarded 0:21:19.000 --> 0:21:21.800 TV producer who made her name in the creative community 0:21:21.840 --> 0:21:24.440 when she was the top development executive at a MC. 0:21:25.200 --> 0:21:28.320 When you green light the pilots for Madmen and Breaking Bad, 0:21:28.600 --> 0:21:31.080 you get a reputation as having an eye for quality. 0:21:31.760 --> 0:21:36.080 I was pleasantly surprised in this interview from October when 0:21:36.160 --> 0:21:38.800 Christina opened up about how hard it is to sell 0:21:38.840 --> 0:21:42.720 shows despite the enormous increase in the overall demand for content. 0:21:43.320 --> 0:21:46.280 It takes an industry insider to get beyond the surface 0:21:46.359 --> 0:21:50.720 hype around peak TV. In our conversation, Christina touched on 0:21:50.760 --> 0:21:54.040 the real problems of working in a frenzied market with 0:21:54.200 --> 0:21:58.600 unsustainable levels of money and capital chasing talent and producers. 0:21:59.800 --> 0:22:01.879 So all of a sudden, a bunch of new buyers 0:22:01.920 --> 0:22:04.600 came to the market and we would take stuff out 0:22:04.680 --> 0:22:07.440 and over the first two years of having my company, 0:22:07.800 --> 0:22:10.720 we sold pretty much everything we took to the market. 0:22:10.840 --> 0:22:14.560 There were about i'd say thirteen fourteen shows that we 0:22:14.640 --> 0:22:17.479 took out and they all went into development. Not all 0:22:17.520 --> 0:22:20.399 of them got made, but um, one or two of 0:22:20.440 --> 0:22:23.399 them got made, which is kind of the ratio. You 0:22:23.440 --> 0:22:26.080 have one out of ten usually is your ratio of 0:22:26.119 --> 0:22:29.560 what you're hoping for the last two years of being 0:22:29.600 --> 0:22:33.000 a producer. Now, with all the platforms, there is such 0:22:33.000 --> 0:22:36.159 a huge demand for content that one would assume that 0:22:36.200 --> 0:22:39.200 being a producer would make my life much easier. It's 0:22:39.240 --> 0:22:42.240 actually made it more difficult. What has happened is that 0:22:42.720 --> 0:22:45.959 TV is such an incredible medium now. It is so 0:22:46.080 --> 0:22:48.920 high level the programming that's being made. You have every 0:22:49.000 --> 0:22:55.560 A list showrunner, actor, director coming with their passion project. 0:22:56.000 --> 0:22:58.840 So I often find myself waiting to take out a 0:22:58.880 --> 0:23:02.480 show to the buyers and you have Germo del Toro 0:23:02.680 --> 0:23:05.239 sitting in the waiting room, you have George Clooney, you 0:23:05.280 --> 0:23:09.560 have every single top level person who's you know, Garmo 0:23:09.640 --> 0:23:13.040 had just won an Academy Award, and you're sitting there going, oh, yeah, 0:23:13.119 --> 0:23:16.400 my little great show, Um, what do we have. So 0:23:16.600 --> 0:23:19.560 it definitely has become more difficult. And I have noticed 0:23:19.600 --> 0:23:23.480 that unless you package your show to the nth degree, 0:23:24.040 --> 0:23:28.640 it does not sell. You're talking about soup Ton's with writers, showrunner, 0:23:28.760 --> 0:23:32.760 star director, the whole. You don't necessarily need a line 0:23:32.760 --> 0:23:35.000 producer because they can always hire that, because that's not 0:23:35.000 --> 0:23:38.040 going to be You need somebody competent, but they're not 0:23:38.080 --> 0:23:39.760 going to look at that as the sort of bells 0:23:39.760 --> 0:23:44.680 and whistles of must make TV. And so right now 0:23:44.760 --> 0:23:47.760 the game is straight to series orders with a list talent. 0:23:48.640 --> 0:23:51.359 And you know, you see that with Reese Witherspoon's company, 0:23:51.440 --> 0:23:53.560 you see that with all of these packages now that 0:23:53.560 --> 0:23:57.159 are going out. Um, and so I have now moved 0:23:57.240 --> 0:24:02.120 from being focused solely on develop Lipman to also being 0:24:02.119 --> 0:24:05.000 a packager, which really was never that was always an 0:24:05.000 --> 0:24:09.720 agent's job, and so it has really sort of taken 0:24:09.720 --> 0:24:13.760