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Speaker 1: This episode of the Chuck Podcast is brought to you

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Speaker 1: I'm constantly working on this for years myself, and here's

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Speaker 1: an opportunity for you to take matters into your own

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Speaker 1: hands as well. Hello thereon, Welcome to the Wednesday episode

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Speaker 1: of the Chuck Podcast. So on Monday, I left you

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Speaker 1: with a little bit of a cliffhanger, right, I said

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Speaker 1: I had a new announcement coming and involved sports history,

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Speaker 1: and of course the minute it loaded, it turned out

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Speaker 1: my friends at Variety were dropping their story on Monday,

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Speaker 1: not Tuesday, and I was not trying to hide it

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Speaker 1: from anybody. I thought it was all hitting on Tuesday,

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Speaker 1: so I was trying to respect the embargoes that I'd

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Speaker 1: done with some coverage. But yes, I've teamed up with

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Speaker 1: longtime sports journalists Ja Donde. You may know Ja from

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Speaker 1: his work at the Washington Post or his work at

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Speaker 1: the La Times. That's where I first got to know

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Speaker 1: him and read them. As a Dodger fan, I would

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Speaker 1: consume anything Jay wrote about the Dodgers, but would also

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Speaker 1: follow his other work as well, and then, of course,

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Speaker 1: as part of the hour long must see TV for

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Speaker 1: the longest period of time on ESPN when he had

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Speaker 1: Around the Horn at five pm Eastern and PTI at

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Speaker 1: five thirty pm Eastern. Around the Horn is no longer

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Speaker 1: with us. Ja's been He also is at the Medill's

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Speaker 1: School and has been doing that at Midill at Northwestern,

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Speaker 1: teaching sports journalism for I think it goes back to

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Speaker 1: about twenty seventeen. So look, we've teamed up to do

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Speaker 1: recall it dynastic, and basically what it is is every

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Speaker 1: month Jay and I are going to do a deep

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Speaker 1: dive on a franchise, whether it's a professional sports franchise

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Speaker 1: or a college sports program that is gone to another level. Right,

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Speaker 1: there's sort of there's that where they become iconic right,

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Speaker 1: what makes a team or a program go from simply

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Speaker 1: successful to that next level to become iconic? And we

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Speaker 1: will make no bones. We are absolutely inspired by our

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Speaker 1: friends over at Acquired what they've done for the business world,

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Speaker 1: long form storytelling about how the great institutions in the

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Speaker 1: business world were built. You know, they've done Google and

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Speaker 1: JP Morgan Chase. They've even dabbled and talked about the

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Speaker 1: NFL and F one Is businesses And honestly, we're you know,

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Speaker 1: great ideas like why not do this for sports? And

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Speaker 1: we're applying the same approach to sports franchises and programs.

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Speaker 1: We want to discuss the key people in the history

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Speaker 1: of that franchise, the decisions of turning points of forks

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Speaker 1: on the road. So our first episode dropped Tuesday. You

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Speaker 1: may have gotten it in the feed already, you may going,

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Speaker 1: what the hell is this? And our first franchise that

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Speaker 1: we're doing a deep dive is the Dodgers, the La Dodgers.

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Speaker 1: It's a franchise that has spent decades chasing the Yankees

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Speaker 1: in prestige in World Series Championships. Right, you know, in

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Speaker 1: many ways it was always that's the measuring stick. But

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Speaker 1: along the way in order to chase the Yankees, they

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Speaker 1: ended up becoming probably arguably the most innovative sports organization

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Speaker 1: in all of sports history, regardless of sport that you pick.

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Speaker 1: In order to catch the Yankees, they had to be

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Speaker 1: the innovators, and usually that's what happens, right. Necessity is

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Speaker 1: the mother of all invention, right. And of course the

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Speaker 1: story doesn't start there. The story begins in this little

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Speaker 1: burrow before it even became a borough of New York City. Brooklyn,

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Speaker 1: New York. Eighteen eighty three is when the franchise was born.

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Speaker 1: Happened to be the same year that the Brooklyn Bridge opened,

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Speaker 1: and within six or seven years Brooklyn itself would become

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Speaker 1: part of New York City. But that's sort of how

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Speaker 1: we're going to go through this, and Jay and I

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Speaker 1: are both get involved with the research, and it really

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Speaker 1: is sort of are we're making the argument. That's sort

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Speaker 1: of like we're making the case why this franchise X

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Speaker 1: is iconic. So every month we're going to take a

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Speaker 1: deep dive into an iconic franchise. So this month it's

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Speaker 1: the Dodgers. It'll be from teams you love and teams

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Speaker 1: you hate and everyone in between. The curious those that

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Speaker 1: you're curious about. So the Dodgers this month, we're going

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Speaker 1: to tackle the Pittsburgh Steelers in April. They will be

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Speaker 1: the franchise that hosts the NFL Draft, so we thought

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Speaker 1: that would the timing of that will be good. We're

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Speaker 1: going to do these every month. In between each episode

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Speaker 1: sort of again borrowing a you know, we're not trying

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Speaker 1: to reinvent the wheel here, borrowing a page from our

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Speaker 1: friends that acquired We'll also have a have an episode

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Speaker 1: with somebody who can sort of talk about the franchise

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Speaker 1: in more personal terms. Look, we're doing this independently. We

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Speaker 1: have no patron for any time we do this. So

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Speaker 1: I think as much as we know there are plenty

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Speaker 1: of sports documentaries out there and episodic you know sort

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Speaker 1: of takes on you know, various individual players part of

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Speaker 1: a franchise, we are not taking our cues from anybody.

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Speaker 1: We are simply doing it. Really, I look at it

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Speaker 1: through the eyes of a of a want to be historian. Right,

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Speaker 1: I'm a history junkie, and I think what I love

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Speaker 1: about Jaa and our partnership is that he you know,

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Speaker 1: he's not he's as interested in the off the field

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Speaker 1: stuff as he is in the on the field stuff

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Speaker 1: just like I am. And in that sense, I think

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Speaker 1: this is why this partnership is already working. I'd like

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Speaker 1: to think. So take a listen. It's a couple takes

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Speaker 1: more than it's more than two hours, right, you can't

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Speaker 1: you know you're telling the story. It takes more than

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Speaker 1: a thirty minute episode. But we don't expect you to

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Speaker 1: listen to it in one listening. We know that you

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Speaker 1: know it may be that's why we're going to do

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Speaker 1: one of these a month and not try to make

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Speaker 1: you consume this here. But it's a lot of fun.

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Speaker 1: It's a labor of love for me, and it's just

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Speaker 1: been amazing to get to know Ja and to work

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Speaker 1: with him. Special shout out to the sort of the

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Speaker 1: godfather of this idea, the third partner in this my

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Speaker 1: longtime friend and colleague Steve Hall as well. So I

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Speaker 1: hope you give it a chance. It's called Dynastics. Subscribe

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Speaker 1: today wherever you get to all your podcasts me on,

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Speaker 1: iHeart already it's being syndicated there. And look, each episode

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Speaker 1: we come up with a we're both Jay and I

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Speaker 1: have a mount rushmore of the four most iconic people

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Speaker 1: associated with that franchise Hard Stop. You know, I will

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Speaker 1: argue for more than you know, multiple amount rushmores that

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Speaker 1: we could come up with, but we decided to lean

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Speaker 1: into that gimmick. And we know it's a fun gimmick,

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Speaker 1: and yes it's a gimmick, but it to just narrow

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Speaker 1: it down to four creates fun little debates. So we'd

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Speaker 1: love to hear from you. Don't be shy about giving

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Speaker 1: us your opinion on this. Trust me, in the world

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Speaker 1: of sports. The only place where people are more opinionated

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Speaker 1: in the world of sports is of course, in the

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Speaker 1: world of politics. So I hope you'll check it out.

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Speaker 1: I appreciate the patients in this feed that I've added

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Speaker 1: to it. As for this episode, we got a lot

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Speaker 1: of a lot of interesting nuggets on all things having

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Speaker 1: to do aroun. I have a little bit of a

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Speaker 1: campaign twenty twenty six update, including a fascinating new top

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Speaker 1: five list, a unique take on my top five this week,

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Speaker 1: which is top five most likely state wide incumbents to

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Speaker 1: lose to not return to office, so slightly different it

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Speaker 1: would be either gov or sitting governors or sitting senators,

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Speaker 1: but the five most vulnerable of those, I thought it

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Speaker 1: would be a different way to slice that idea going forward.

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Speaker 1: We'll take some questions, and of course my interview is

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Speaker 1: with somebody I've known for some time, really one of

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Speaker 1: the pioneers in the local journal in the sort of

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Speaker 1: the twenty first century local journalism startups. His name is

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Speaker 1: Warwick Saban. He is the publisher and founder, if you will,

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Speaker 1: Deep South Today, which is the parent company of some

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Speaker 1: local news publications in Mississippi and in Louisiana. They'll be

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Speaker 1: expanding soon in Arkansas. All of this, of course, is

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Speaker 1: part of my attempt to support on April ninth, Local

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Speaker 1: News Day, our awareness campaign where a bunch of independent

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Speaker 1: local news entrepreneurs are getting together because we're trying to

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Speaker 1: get more people to know what's happening in their community.

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Speaker 1: There are a lot of great local news startups that

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Speaker 1: people aren't aware of, so doing my best to contribute

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Speaker 1: to the marketing of this day, April ninth, Local News Day.

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Speaker 1: It is so this is a get to know your

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Speaker 1: local news entrepreneur, if you will, And with another interview

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Speaker 1: there so well of that. But obviously, in the world

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Speaker 1: of politics, it is still we are still living in

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Speaker 1: one story that is going to continue and will continue

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Speaker 1: to dominate, and that is all things Iran. It is

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Speaker 1: as has been foreshadowed on this podcast, and I've said

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Speaker 1: in other places, Donald Trump was not going to have

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Speaker 1: a lot of patience and he was going to look

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Speaker 1: for an exit ramp. And he is certainly trying to

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Speaker 1: talk talk his way into getting out of this war

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Speaker 1: that he got himself into. And it's clear he is

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Speaker 1: struggling with the political pain this is causing because remember,

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Speaker 1: as I reminded you on Monday, the people feeling the

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Speaker 1: immediate tax hike from this war, and in this case,

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Speaker 1: the tax height is the rise in gas prices. It

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Speaker 1: is more folks who supported him, right, this is this gap.

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Speaker 1: When gas prices go up, it is folks in rural

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Speaker 1: and ex Serban America who are hit hardest. Well, that

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Speaker 1: is geographically the heart of the Trump political base. So

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Speaker 1: this is having a huge impact on his side politically,

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Speaker 1: which is why he knows and is so desperate to

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Speaker 1: find his way out. But what does victory actually look like.

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Speaker 1: It's a question that Donald Trump is trying to He's like,

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Speaker 1: if we can they pledge out to have a nuclear bomb,

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Speaker 1: which they had actually pledged to do before if they

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Speaker 1: get we destroyed their navy, he's saying, and we're able

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Speaker 1: to get them from doing a state sponsor of terrorism.

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Speaker 1: But and he's trying to say, and there's going to

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Speaker 1: be new people in the regime, so it's kind of

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Speaker 1: like regime change. Yeah, but it's not regime change, right,

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Speaker 1: And that's the problem. He's trying to spitball how he

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Speaker 1: would sell victory in this. But this is the problem

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Speaker 1: he's in, is that there is no easy way out

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Speaker 1: of here, and there's not a good answer because there

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Speaker 1: might not there's no victory he can declare in the

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Speaker 1: next four to six weeks. And at this point they

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Speaker 1: kind of know it. And it looks like he is

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Speaker 1: desperate to get out of this energy crisis that he's

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Speaker 1: helped create. So we've arrived at one of those moments

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Speaker 1: in American form policy where every path forward carries risks.

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Speaker 1: And this is I've said it before. He boxed himself in,

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Speaker 1: he boxed the country in. No matter your political persuasions,

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Speaker 1: your political feelings about Donald Trump, America's prestige is on

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Speaker 1: the line here and that's a huge problem. So what

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Speaker 1: are the options that are facing it, it's clear that

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Speaker 1: militarily he's being given the option to escalate. Right, we

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Speaker 1: continue to send more troops who look like they would

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Speaker 1: be the first troops on the boots on the ground

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Speaker 1: for some sort of ground incursion. Maybe it's just simply

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Speaker 1: to keep this straight of horm moves open. But the

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Speaker 1: type of resources we're sending over there now is in

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Speaker 1: case the President makes the decision and gives the green

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Speaker 1: light to putting actual American troops on the ground in Iran.

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Speaker 1: But of course that's an escalation, and if you do that,

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Speaker 1: that risks a wider regional war and more energy shocks

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Speaker 1: and a long term commitment with no clear endgame. If

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Speaker 1: you're doing what he's doing now, he's trying to hurry

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Speaker 1: up and de escalate, Okay, but he risks something that's

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Speaker 1: potentially just as dangerous, handing irantrategic victory without ever formally

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Speaker 1: admitting it. Right, if the regime survived, who won this?

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Speaker 1: For Yes, we've absolutely eviscerated their military and we've certainly

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Speaker 1: degraded degraded their ability to cause problems for the United States.

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Speaker 1: What about for the region itself and any circumstance that

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Speaker 1: he's negotiating at the moment continues to keep and this

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Speaker 1: is where geography is Iran's best weapon. Here they're going

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Speaker 1: to have a large say over who gets to travel

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Speaker 1: through the Straight of Hormoves. So former Defense Secretary Jim Mattis,

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Speaker 1: who was the Defense secretary for Donald Trump in his

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Speaker 1: first term, and he's no Iran dove, trust me on this,

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Speaker 1: but he put it as bluntly as anyone has. Earlier

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Speaker 1: this week, he said, the United States declares victory and

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Speaker 1: steps back. Now Iran will effectively claim control of the

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Speaker 1: Strait of hor Moves. And we know what that means.

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Speaker 1: Means at any moment in time, they can essentially create

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Speaker 1: an energy problem for the United States and the world,

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Speaker 1: but it's a political problem for the US and is

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Speaker 1: you know, he had his own warning here was even

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Speaker 1: more vivid because he expects that under any scenario they're

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Speaker 1: going to start to charge basically charging attacks on global

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Speaker 1: shipping to go through the Strait of ormanis because if

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Speaker 1: you were then you know Israel wants regime change. How

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Speaker 1: do you know that they've said it, Prime Minister, that

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Speaker 1: Meau said it. So they're not going to feel secure.

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Speaker 1: Is the United States is going to guarantee that the

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Speaker 1: US would somehow prevent Israel from attacking them again, are

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Speaker 1: we going to do that? Is Israel going to sign

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Speaker 1: off on that? I'm skeptical. So here we are, we're

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Speaker 1: going to be in a situation where the Iranians will

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Speaker 1: control the straight. This regime will control the straight, which

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Speaker 1: means still roughly twenty percent of the world's oil passes

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Speaker 1: through this narrow passage, and that continues to give the

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Speaker 1: Arminians leverage over the global economy. So it's hard to

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Speaker 1: imagine that. First of all, they didn't have this much.

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Speaker 1: You know, they arguably always kind of had this leverage

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Speaker 1: if they chose to use it, but there was an

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Speaker 1: uneasy piece that was there. But now by engaging in this,

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Speaker 1: they know and what is their incentive not to continue

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Speaker 1: to cause disruptions because they know their days are numbered

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Speaker 1: if they just sort of stand pat So it's hard

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Speaker 1: to it's hard to see how we get an uneasy

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Speaker 1: cease fire here that somehow is attainable in sticks. I

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Speaker 1: hope I'm wrong. I don't think any of us want

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Speaker 1: to see a war that escalates where we have American

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Speaker 1: young American men and women coming home in body bags,

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Speaker 1: fighting a war of choice. Yes, iron's a menace, but

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Speaker 1: it would be a war of choice. Is this the

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Speaker 1: time to have this war? I think we know what

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Speaker 1: the answer to that is. And certainly President Trump has

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Speaker 1: created a situation with our allies that makes it where

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Speaker 1: we're going in alone on this. I'm going to get

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Speaker 1: to more on that in a minute. But Mattis is

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Speaker 1: warning becomes something bigger than just a military assessment, because militarily,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's both the military has had massive strategic

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Speaker 1: victory here and at the same time, there's only so

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Speaker 1: much the military can do. Mattis said one other thing

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Speaker 1: in his interview. He said, you know, we're in a

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Speaker 1: tough spot. Now. This goes back to being boxed in.

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Speaker 1: I can't identify a lot of options. This is coming

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Speaker 1: from jam Mattis. This isn't coming from some left wing blogger, okay,

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Speaker 1: because that's the reality. There's no clear path forward here,

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Speaker 1: and it's clear they didn't think this through at the

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Speaker 1: White House. They really believed, or the President believed that

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Speaker 1: this was going to be just like Venezuelan and that

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Speaker 1: the incentive to survive would somehow. You know, he doesn't

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Speaker 1: seem to acknowledge that this regime has kept power for

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Speaker 1: forty seven years, which means there's a lot of people

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Speaker 1: that are devoted to this regime and they're not going

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Speaker 1: to go away quietly because their livelihood depends on the

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Speaker 1: regime staying in power. You would think Donald Trump would

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Speaker 1: understand when you have kind of that kind of loyalty, right,

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Speaker 1: It's the type of loyalty he tries. He wants people

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Speaker 1: loyal to him, not because they like him, loyal to

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Speaker 1: him because they need him. Well, that's the type of

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Speaker 1: loyalty this regime is created. They're not going easily. This

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Speaker 1: And there's another reality that's hard to ignore. Airpower. A

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Speaker 1: loan doesn't change regimes. History continues to show this again

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Speaker 1: and again. So even after weeks of strikes, even after

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Speaker 1: the damage to all these Iranian military targets, we're still

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Speaker 1: left in a position where we've demonstrated force and we

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Speaker 1: haven't secured the outcome, and are how are more you know,

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Speaker 1: more threats sort of fall on deaf ears to those

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Speaker 1: that have survived, just surviving, what more is there for

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Speaker 1: us to destroy? And again this is asymmetric. Just the

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Speaker 1: regime surviving is victory for them. So we're stuck. Neither

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Speaker 1: side can force the other to change course, neither side

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Speaker 1: can claim a decisive when. And the longer that continues,

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Speaker 1: the more this becomes about perception and who looks like

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Speaker 1: they held firm and who looks like they blinked. And

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Speaker 1: let's just say Donald Trump is blinking a lot. So

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Speaker 1: this isn't just about Iran. This has got second order

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Speaker 1: effects already in motion among the Iranian diaspora, menary who

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Speaker 1: hope this would be a turning point. Now that hope

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Speaker 1: fades right among the Gulf States, the question becomes is

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Speaker 1: the United States still the security partner of choice? And

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Speaker 1: if the answer becomes even slightly uncertain. They don't walk away,

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Speaker 1: but they're going to hedge. That's where China comes in.

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Speaker 1: There'll be regional arrangements, There'll be a lot of self preservation.

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Speaker 1: Because alliances don't break overnight. They hollow out. And this

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Speaker 1: is yet another uncomfortable part of this. We didn't just

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Speaker 1: stumble into this moment. Donald Trump helped create this moment.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes the hardest thing is to say in politics are

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Speaker 1: the most obvious ones, not because they're complicated, but because

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Speaker 1: they're so basic you assume one doesn't need to even

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Speaker 1: say it. It doesn't need to be said. But if you

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Speaker 1: hollow out expertise, you get worse decisions. If you surround

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Speaker 1: yourself with people who agree with you, you make more mistakes,

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Speaker 1: And if you alienate your allies, you end up alone

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Speaker 1: when it matters. This is an advanced political science. This

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Speaker 1: is organizational leadership one oh one. Yet here we are right.

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Speaker 1: How did he hollow out the expertise? He gutted the

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Speaker 1: National Security Council. He surrounded himself with a bunch of secofans.

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Speaker 1: There is no Jim Madis at the Defense at the

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Speaker 1: Pentagon right now offering sage questionable advice. There's Pete Hegsea, who,

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Speaker 1: let's just say, couldn't carry Jim Madis's jockstrap. So you've

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Speaker 1: got a secretary state in theory that I think is

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Speaker 1: sort of reality based, but his political future hinges on

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Speaker 1: whether Donald Trump thinks he's the heir apparent. So we

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Speaker 1: know what kind of limited pushback. And notice when you

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Speaker 1: get all of the the fact that JD. Vans and

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Speaker 1: Tulsea Gabbert have both used the same spin while the

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Speaker 1: President came to this conclusion, and Marco Ruby where the

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Speaker 1: President decided there was an imminent threat, and the President

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Speaker 1: decided right by the way, talk about CYA. None of

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Speaker 1: them want to own this. They're making it clear this

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Speaker 1: is a Donald Trump decision all the way through. They

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Speaker 1: somehow think that they don't have it, that this is

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Speaker 1: just a stain and not a tattoo. But we shall see.

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Speaker 1: So here we are. He has spent the last year year,

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Speaker 1: in a couple of months, berating our allies, using tariffs

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Speaker 1: to bludgeon our allies, and ad tacks, creating all sorts

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Speaker 1: of uncomfortable alliances, making NATO, you know, threat with the

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Speaker 1: threat on greenland, shaking the confidence of our NATO allies.

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Speaker 1: So that's how we spent twenty twenty five as a nation.

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Speaker 1: And then he's boxed himself in and on this Iran decision.

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Speaker 1: Could use some allies to help us out with the

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Speaker 1: straight of oar moves, and they're all like, hey, good luck, brother,

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Speaker 1: you're on your own now. You can sit here and complain.

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Speaker 1: Where are our allies? Well, you alienated them. You made

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Speaker 1: it a lot harder for them to stick by us,

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Speaker 1: because sticking by the United States is suddenly politically unpopular

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Speaker 1: in places like the UK, Germany, France, and Italy let

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Speaker 1: me repeat myself, or Japan. Can you believe that standing

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Speaker 1: on the side of the the United States is unpopular

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Speaker 1: in those countries? That's a problem. Ironically, Donald Trump had

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Speaker 1: in theory diverse voices in the room. He had a

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Speaker 1: national security team that looked like it did represent a

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Speaker 1: range of perspectives, from a dove like Tulsea Gabbert to

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Speaker 1: a hawk like Marco Rubio. But here's the difference between

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Speaker 1: theory and practice. No one appeared willing or able to

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Speaker 1: tell the President something he didn't want to hear. General

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Speaker 1: Kine came the closest, but He even did that through proxies,

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Speaker 1: right through interviews with the Wall Street Journal, Washington Post,

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Speaker 1: New York Times. And that distinction matters a lot here

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Speaker 1: because dissent isn't about having different resumes in the room.

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Speaker 1: It's about whether anyone feels empowered to challenge the decision

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Speaker 1: that's already been made. And if they don't, then what

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Speaker 1: you have is in a debate, it's a performance. And

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Speaker 1: we spent all this time beating up our testing all

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Speaker 1: of our alliances. We treated them as transactional people, even

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Speaker 1: publicly keturing. Then the Vice President lectured Europe about their

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Speaker 1: internal values. When I thought the whole point was real politique.

428
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,520
Speaker 1: You do you, we do we? And it raised a

429
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:12,480
Speaker 1: simple question, if you knew you might be heading into

430
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:15,639
Speaker 1: a conflict they could disrupt global energy markets, would you

431
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:18,280
Speaker 1: spend the previous year making it politically harder for your

432
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 1: allies to stand with you, or would you be strengthening

433
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 1: those relationships. Because what we're seeing right now is in

434
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:27,480
Speaker 1: a collapse of alliances, it's something more subtle. It's hesitation,

435
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:30,800
Speaker 1: it's hedging. It's a quieter kind of distance. They're not

436
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:33,040
Speaker 1: saying they won't help, but like wrap up this war

437
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:36,399
Speaker 1: and then we'll see what we can do. And then

438
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 1: this is where it all connects. When you narrow the

439
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:41,720
Speaker 1: circle of advice, when you prioritize loyalty over challenge, when

440
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 1: you weaken alliances, you don't just change the environment around

441
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:48,120
Speaker 1: a decision, you actually change the decision itself. The risks

442
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:52,200
Speaker 1: look smaller they weren't. The timeline looks shorter it wasn't.

443
00:26:52,720 --> 00:27:01,120
Speaker 1: The outcome feels more manageable. Well, this hain't been as well. Now.

444
00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:03,880
Speaker 1: It's interesting here is that polling is showing this poor.

445
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 1: This war is unpopular, Okay, not surprising, and that's a

446
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 1: huge issue for him, and I think he's very aware.

447
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:19,240
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's the problem here, right. He knee

448
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:20,920
Speaker 1: jerked his way into this, and now he's going to

449
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:24,040
Speaker 1: knee jerk his way out of this. And it ain't

450
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:27,919
Speaker 1: going to be that clean. I know he thinks it

451
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:31,200
Speaker 1: could be, and he has you know, rolled the dice

452
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:37,159
Speaker 1: before on Middle East decisions, and he's not and it

453
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:40,679
Speaker 1: hasn't hurt him yet until now. And I think he

454
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 1: still thinks in his head that if they can somehow

455
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:45,719
Speaker 1: wrap this up, he can declare some sort of victory

456
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 1: and somehow the markets will right themselves sooner rather than later.

457
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:53,840
Speaker 1: There's no doubt this global economy and the American economy

458
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 1: has been resilient, but at some point it ain't going

459
00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 1: to be this resilient, and more importantly, everybody's going to

460
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:08,679
Speaker 1: start hedging all over the place. What's been interesting is

461
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:13,160
Speaker 1: what we're watching among independence in the polling. They don't

462
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:16,160
Speaker 1: like Democrats, they don't like Republicans, but they particularly don't

463
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 1: like Donald Trump and Mega. So that is why independents

464
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 1: look like they're supporting Democrats, because what they're voting against

465
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:29,360
Speaker 1: is Trump, and MAGA is Trump. Trump is Mega support

466
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:34,480
Speaker 1: among independences that sit in the low twenties. That is

467
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 1: a huge problem here. Wherever independence go in Chunk is

468
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:45,719
Speaker 1: usually when that party wins. Something else that's popped up

469
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 1: in the polls that I kind of want people to

470
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 1: pay attention to. Marquette is out and what's interesting is

471
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:55,400
Speaker 1: that they did fave on favor ratings for Democratic Party,

472
00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 1: Republican Party, and then Mega. Believe it or not, the

473
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:01,960
Speaker 1: Republican Party. Of the best ratings of those three entities.

474
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 1: Democratic Party actually had the lowest rating of those three entities,

475
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 1: but MAGA was looked closer to being as unpopular as

476
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 1: the Democrats were, and certainly more unpopular than Republicans. And

477
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:15,200
Speaker 1: now there's always been a distinction between those that call

478
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 1: themselves Republicans and those that call themselves MAGA, and of

479
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 1: course anything MAGA is always more loyal to the president

480
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 1: on everything like this. Around war, we've seen some polling

481
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,840
Speaker 1: showed like ninety nine percent support among MEGA voters, but

482
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:31,680
Speaker 1: among those that consider themselves more Republican than MEGA, it's

483
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 1: been like fifty five to forty. You know, it's not

484
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:37,720
Speaker 1: been a clean break, you see. And I know, I

485
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 1: know MEGA influencers are more anti war than the rank

486
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 1: and file of MAGA, right, but it tells you how

487
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 1: bad the MEGA brand has become. Where the Republican brand

488
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 1: is in better shape with voters than the MAGA brand.

489
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 1: If you're a Republican on the ballot, you should be

490
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 1: relieved that this is true. I think the great fear

491
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 1: among some Republicans is that Trump and MAGA was going

492
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 1: to drag the Republican brand with it. If you've got

493
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 1: voters willing to distinguish between the two, this should be

494
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:12,480
Speaker 1: the time to go rush and grab it. Except guess

495
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 1: what this Republican Party and Jerryman. It's made primaries so

496
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 1: important that Republicans can't distance themselves fast enough from Trump

497
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 1: because if they do, they won't win primaries. This is

498
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 1: the trap that John Cornyn did, right. So it's a

499
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 1: it's it's it's interesting here. None of this is yet

500
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 1: benefiting the Democrats' brand, even as it benefits them in

501
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 1: binary choices when you do those head to head tests.

502
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 1: But the fact that this is really and in some

503
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:52,200
Speaker 1: ways you know, this Iran war could be the death

504
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 1: knell for the MAGA brand, right because even though the

505
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:58,959
Speaker 1: influencers want the MAGA brand to be something else, as

506
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,400
Speaker 1: Donald Trump has always said, Mega is whatever he says

507
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 1: it is. And it turns out the voters are look

508
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:08,959
Speaker 1: at MAGA through the prism of Trump, and Maga's numbers

509
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 1: are as bad as Trump's numbers. But the fact that

510
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 1: the Republican Party's numbers are actually slightly better than MAGA

511
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:21,320
Speaker 1: and Trump in theories an opportunity for the Republican Party

512
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 1: to find its way away out of the wilderness, away

513
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 1: from Trump if they so choose. What that really tells

514
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 1: you is that independent voters, because that's where these numbers

515
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 1: are coming from independence, have a better view of Republicans

516
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:39,840
Speaker 1: in general, the Republican Party when it's not associated with

517
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 1: Donald Trump. I'll be curious to see what that means

518
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty eight, and does the unpopularity of Trump's

519
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 1: on pot you know, if this isn't recoverable. And there

520
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 1: are always points and second terms where once it's gone,

521
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 1: it's gone. He's bounced back a few other times, there's

522
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 1: going to be a point he's ops bouncing back. This

523
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 1: might be the time he stops bouncing back, which means

524
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:08,080
Speaker 1: there's an opening. And what's interesting, there's one there's one

525
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:11,000
Speaker 1: person I'm keeping an eye on, closest when it comes

526
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:14,560
Speaker 1: to somebody who would run as a sort of a

527
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:24,400
Speaker 1: non maga but maybe mega call it, you know, not

528
00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:29,880
Speaker 1: anti this. And it's Brian Kemp in Georgia. And guess

529
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 1: what state is the only state so far to do

530
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 1: a gas tax holiday. Brian Camp in Georgia feels like

531
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 1: an easy way for Brian Kemp presidential candidate to distinguish

532
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 1: himself from a JD. Vance or Marco Rubio in the primary.

533
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 1: So not lost on me that Camp, you know already

534
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 1: has that feather in his twenty twenty eight cap should

535
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 1: he need it, and you're starting to see polling conformed

536
00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 1: to that. Look, this is just early days of this,

537
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 1: but I think this is going to be worth keeping

538
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 1: tracking of, which is, how can does the Republican brand

539
00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 1: start improving in the mind of some independent voters simply

540
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 1: because Trump and MAGA have become so dominant, and what

541
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:23,360
Speaker 1: Republican office holders find a way? Hear that? All right?

542
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 1: With that, I had a few more political items I

543
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 1: want to get to. I think I'm gonna punt. We're

544
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 1: going to do that. We'll do that with tomorrow's episode,

545
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:41,480
Speaker 1: including this bizarre sort of Chuck Schumer sort of attempt

546
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 1: to sort of quell the There is clearly a growing

547
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 1: band of senator Democratic senators that want Schummer to go.

548
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 1: He did a crazy interview with the Wall Street Journal

549
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 1: where I think he sort of exposed himself as either

550
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:59,719
Speaker 1: being a bit out of touch or not fully on

551
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 1: top of what is happening here. And at the same time,

552
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 1: you know, one can understan what he's tried to do.

553
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:12,719
Speaker 1: And so if Chuck Schumer doesn't want progress to look

554
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:16,880
Speaker 1: like progressives have defeated him, he may want to go

555
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 1: out on his terms rather than test the premise whether

556
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 1: he could survive a vote himself come December should Democrats

557
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:29,000
Speaker 1: end up with the majority of the Senate. But I'm

558
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 1: going to get more than that tomorrow. Will do a

559
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:32,319
Speaker 1: little bit more on the Democratic side of things. But

560
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:34,480
Speaker 1: considering where we are at the run, it is, as

561
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 1: I've said before, there is only one story impacting American politics.

562
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:43,239
Speaker 1: Until it is no longer front and center, it's going

563
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:45,200
Speaker 1: to be hard to focus on anything else. So let's

564
00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:47,840
Speaker 1: sneak at a break when we come back. My conversation with

565
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 1: local news entrepreneur Work Saving, who's been focused on southern

566
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:57,279
Speaker 1: states including Mississippi, Louisiana, and Arkansas when it comes to

567
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Speaker 1: local news deserts. This episode of the Chuck Toodcast is

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599
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:57,360
Speaker 1: we had John Adams on from the Montana Free Press,

600
00:36:57,360 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 1: that I was going to spend the month promoting Local

601
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:01,600
Speaker 1: News Day, and as our way to promote Local News

602
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 1: Day April ninth, basically, it's an awareness day so the

603
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 1: people get to know the local news entrepreneurs that are everywhere. Unfortunately,

604
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 1: not everybody knows of their existence, and so creating a

605
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:20,600
Speaker 1: day like this, which was John's idea there at the

606
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:23,400
Speaker 1: Montana Free Press he thought could be helpful around the country.

607
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:26,400
Speaker 1: Various partners are there well. One of the pioneers, frankly

608
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:29,319
Speaker 1: in this new independent space and one of the more

609
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 1: bigger success stories there is somebody I've gotten to know

610
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 1: over the last three years as I've dove into this

611
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:40,120
Speaker 1: space as work save it, and he is the publisher, owner,

612
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:43,840
Speaker 1: proprietor however you want to describe it for New South

613
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:47,760
Speaker 1: Today is the parent company I believe and he'll correct

614
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:49,840
Speaker 1: me with all the mistakes I make here in a second.

615
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:53,319
Speaker 1: I'm aware of Warwick through a variety of ways, but

616
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:59,359
Speaker 1: primarily through my old boss, Andy Lack, who, by the way,

617
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:02,240
Speaker 1: we will give a shut out here. He just committed

618
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:05,960
Speaker 1: seven million dollars to a local news initiative recently. I'm

619
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:08,680
Speaker 1: very proud of my former boss there. But he's been

620
00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:11,560
Speaker 1: very active with Mississippi Today, which is part of De

621
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:14,400
Speaker 1: South Today, but Deep South Today is also in New

622
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:17,920
Speaker 1: Orleans Jackson. I know that they're I think in Arkansas,

623
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:21,120
Speaker 1: and just you know, by its very nature, Deep South

624
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:26,360
Speaker 1: Today about bringing better local news to the Old South.

625
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:28,920
Speaker 1: It's particularly more of the Old South states than the

626
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:32,320
Speaker 1: New South States. So work, how'd I do? And describing

627
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:33,399
Speaker 1: your company and describing your.

628
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:36,000
Speaker 2: Efforts, right, I think that's a great summary.

629
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:39,759
Speaker 3: You know, Andy really did get things going over ten

630
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:43,440
Speaker 3: years ago when Mississippi Today got started actually twenty sixteen,

631
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:47,799
Speaker 3: first nonprofit newsroom in Mississippi really coming in there to

632
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:51,080
Speaker 3: fill the gaps that existed as sort of legacy media

633
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:54,040
Speaker 3: was declining and small local papers and radio stations were

634
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:57,040
Speaker 3: going out of business. And just in the last ten years,

635
00:38:57,080 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 3: Mississippi Today has become the largest newsroom in mississipp won

636
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 3: the Pulitzer Prize in twenty twenty three, was a finalist

637
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:07,440
Speaker 3: for the Pulitzer in twenty four just wins numerous awards

638
00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:09,759
Speaker 3: for the quality of its reporting. And this is really

639
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:14,439
Speaker 3: essential reporting, you know, the accountability reporting that nobody would

640
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:17,880
Speaker 3: be doing if not for Mississippi Today, just again providing

641
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:20,000
Speaker 3: essential local news and information there.

642
00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:22,560
Speaker 2: And it's scaled.

643
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:26,360
Speaker 3: You know, Deep South Today, which is the organization I

644
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:30,160
Speaker 3: run now, actually includes three newsrooms. So we have Mississippi Today,

645
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:32,440
Speaker 3: we have Verite News here in New Orleans where I am,

646
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:36,919
Speaker 3: and the Current in Lafayette, Louisiana, and we're the only

647
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:40,480
Speaker 3: multi state nonprofit news network. We've got a centralized business

648
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:44,319
Speaker 3: infrastructure supporting all three newsrooms, and we're getting ready to

649
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:46,120
Speaker 3: scale across the rest of the.

650
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:49,759
Speaker 1: South, right. I know you're I think you're pretty close

651
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:53,280
Speaker 1: in Arkansas, maybe her but I know you've been deep

652
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:56,160
Speaker 1: there and there's really a frankly, I think a couple

653
00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:58,839
Speaker 1: of communities that would really want it. And it's both

654
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:02,319
Speaker 1: Little Rock and Fayeteville, particularly northwest Arkansas. So I know

655
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:05,640
Speaker 1: there's a huge foundation there and I imagine and you know,

656
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:09,759
Speaker 1: there's actually a lot of pretty good local news in Alabama.

657
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:14,000
Speaker 1: The folks over in Mobile. I feel like it's an

658
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:16,879
Speaker 1: old advanced media site. Correct, That's right.

659
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:19,240
Speaker 3: And I want to emphasize, you know, we're not looking

660
00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:21,440
Speaker 3: to go in the places that don't need us, you know,

661
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:22,760
Speaker 3: where there's good stuff happening.

662
00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:26,239
Speaker 1: You're not trying to be a predator here, You're not.

663
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:30,680
Speaker 1: We're not profitve right, this is not predatory behavior. We're

664
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:32,799
Speaker 1: going to go eat their lunch in Alabama. No, If

665
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 1: they've got a good thing going, how do we help?

666
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:37,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think the look journalism for a long

667
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:40,400
Speaker 3: time was so competitive, and it was competitive for a

668
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:43,239
Speaker 3: good reason, because it was a really profitable business, Like

669
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:46,120
Speaker 3: you could make a lot of money in journalism for

670
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:46,839
Speaker 3: a long time in.

671
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:49,239
Speaker 2: The twentieth century. And that's just not the case now.

672
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 3: And what we've seen is, you know, when the Internet

673
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:54,920
Speaker 3: came and all of these local news organizations suffered as

674
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:57,000
Speaker 3: a result and a lot of them went out of business.

675
00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 3: There's a rebuilding that needs to happen because people have

676
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:05,120
Speaker 3: discovered that this was essential civic infrastructure that you know,

677
00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:07,840
Speaker 3: no one's going to come and report the local news

678
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 3: for you, especially in small, rural, poor places like the

679
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:14,719
Speaker 3: Deep South, Like we get plenty of national and international

680
00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:18,080
Speaker 3: news from the internet, but nobody's reporting on the PTA meeting,

681
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:20,840
Speaker 3: the city council meeting, telling you who's running for office,

682
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 3: holding elected officials accountable unless we rebuild this infrastructure. So

683
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 3: we're doing it as a nonprofit. We're doing it as

684
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:30,279
Speaker 3: a public service. We're giving it away for free, and

685
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:32,399
Speaker 3: we'll work with anybody who wants to work with us.

686
00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:34,279
Speaker 3: But there's a lot of gaps to fill, and that's

687
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:35,239
Speaker 3: where we're focusing.

688
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:39,000
Speaker 1: Let's talk about the vacuum you're filling and why it exists.

689
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:42,960
Speaker 1: What have you learned about the Jackson Clarion Ledger. This

690
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:47,040
Speaker 1: is the basically arguably was the biggest paper in Mississippi.

691
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:49,680
Speaker 1: Maybe the Biloxi Herald had certainly had a as a

692
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:54,319
Speaker 1: fairly large circulation. I think there's a Greenville paper that's

693
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:58,880
Speaker 1: fairly significant. Does that sound right, Greenville, Mississippi saying that,

694
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:01,520
Speaker 1: I think it's I'm thinking of a community that was

695
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:05,360
Speaker 1: in Benny Thompson's district. I think it's Greenville, but smaller

696
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:08,799
Speaker 1: that used to have pretty decent local political journalism. But

697
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:11,319
Speaker 1: let's take the Jackson Claren Ledger because this was the

698
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:14,920
Speaker 1: essentially the largest city, the state capital. Now, what have

699
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:19,000
Speaker 1: you learned from the failure there and the economics? It's

700
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:21,560
Speaker 1: just just bad manager. I believe it's it was a

701
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:26,040
Speaker 1: Gannette paper might still be Yeah, is it bad management

702
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 1: or was there? They're really sort of a local business.

703
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:31,360
Speaker 1: Abandonment of the paper that made it very difficult.

704
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:33,880
Speaker 3: I think that's a tough business. I mean, I'm not

705
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:36,680
Speaker 3: looking to sort of, you know, take shots at anybody.

706
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:38,520
Speaker 1: No, and I'm not setting you up that way, but

707
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 1: you're trying to learn from their mistakes. And that's what

708
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:41,479
Speaker 1: I'm curious about.

709
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:44,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, look, I mean it's it's it's tough when when

710
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:46,839
Speaker 3: you're trying to run a business the same way that

711
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:49,200
Speaker 3: you've run it for a long time, and you're trying

712
00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:52,640
Speaker 3: to dismantle maybe some of the structures that have been

713
00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:54,600
Speaker 3: in place for a long time that served you well.

714
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:57,359
Speaker 3: I just think that's difficult. I think our advantage again

715
00:42:57,440 --> 00:42:59,320
Speaker 3: was that we kind of got to build from scratch

716
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:03,000
Speaker 3: in this new environment. You know, I think being being

717
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:06,640
Speaker 3: part of a big national news network is tough, probably

718
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:10,520
Speaker 3: for Gannet being beholden to shareholders who are expecting a

719
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:13,440
Speaker 3: certain profit margin is tough. We don't have to do that.

720
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:17,480
Speaker 3: I'll emphasize. Also, the Associated Press doesn't even really have

721
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:19,120
Speaker 3: anybody in Mississippi anymore.

722
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:22,440
Speaker 1: Wow, completely abandoned basically the loss so that you know,

723
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:25,359
Speaker 1: they're very newspaper based. I mean, it's just how their

724
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:28,719
Speaker 1: network worked, and I kind of think it's this is

725
00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:30,800
Speaker 1: something we need to rebuild, and I'm not sure ape's

726
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:32,839
Speaker 1: that in the position to rebuild it.

727
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:36,760
Speaker 3: That's it, like there's a wholesale implosion of the old model.

728
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:39,360
Speaker 3: We're fortunate that we're getting to kind of build something

729
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:42,200
Speaker 3: new and we're iterating and evolving and we're trying to

730
00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:45,240
Speaker 3: stay in a nimble as we do it. But you know, again,

731
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:47,839
Speaker 3: we're not We don't have to please shareholders, we don't

732
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:50,440
Speaker 3: have to extract a profit. Every piece of revenue we

733
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:53,120
Speaker 3: get we can invest right back into the news product

734
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:54,280
Speaker 3: and that's why we're growing.

735
00:43:54,960 --> 00:44:00,359
Speaker 1: Look, we've talked offline about the opportunities here with these

736
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:04,239
Speaker 1: rising independent news organizations, and you know you now have

737
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:06,480
Speaker 1: larger and larger ones that are showing up. I mean,

738
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:08,920
Speaker 1: we've got a gentleman here in Washington, d C. Named

739
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:11,840
Speaker 1: Robert Albritton. This is the one time owner of Politico.

740
00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:15,640
Speaker 1: His father was in the local news business for years

741
00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:19,840
Speaker 1: here before, both before I lived here in Washington. But

742
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:22,840
Speaker 1: the you know, there was a news it was a

743
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:26,160
Speaker 1: two newspaper town and a realistic one back in the

744
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 1: sixties and seventies with the Washington Star. And then he

745
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:32,120
Speaker 1: also owned a local TV affiliate. Now, when Robert took

746
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:34,880
Speaker 1: over the media business, he got he didn't he stayed

747
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:36,880
Speaker 1: out of the local He sold all of his local

748
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:39,920
Speaker 1: news holdings at first and made some money with Politico.

749
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:43,200
Speaker 1: And and he's definitely you can you could see he's

750
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:46,640
Speaker 1: just sort of seeing opportunity. But if you get a

751
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:49,719
Speaker 1: couple of big tent poles in the independent space, you know,

752
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:52,239
Speaker 1: Texas Tribune's a tent pole, one could argue, maybe the

753
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:55,360
Speaker 1: Salt Lake Tribune, since they decided to go full independent,

754
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:59,279
Speaker 1: is a tent pole. Maybe Robert Albritton's revitalized Washington Sun

755
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:02,480
Speaker 1: or Star, ever name he ends up. I think he's in.

756
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:06,880
Speaker 1: All depends on what how expensive the buying the brand

757
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:10,919
Speaker 1: might be. If you do something like that, I could

758
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:14,359
Speaker 1: see rebuilding this national network that a Mississippi today could

759
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:15,399
Speaker 1: could benefit from.

760
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:18,120
Speaker 3: No, Yeah, no, look, I agree. I mean, just just

761
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:20,120
Speaker 3: to go back to your point. I mean, you know, yes,

762
00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:23,480
Speaker 3: DC was had multiple newspapers, a two newspaper town, if

763
00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:25,120
Speaker 3: you want to put it that way. But you know,

764
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:29,680
Speaker 3: so many small towns here in the South had two newspapers.

765
00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:30,560
Speaker 2: I mean, if you can buy.

766
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:33,080
Speaker 1: The town was because guess what the dirty little secret was.

767
00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:37,640
Speaker 1: Everybody assumed the media was on one side or the other. Right,

768
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:40,960
Speaker 1: that's right, there had to be a balance. Yeah, that's

769
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:44,080
Speaker 1: what the that's what the problem. That's what the the

770
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:46,160
Speaker 1: community supported. They wanted the balance.

771
00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:48,400
Speaker 2: They wanted the balance. But also it was just a

772
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:49,560
Speaker 2: really good business.

773
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:51,600
Speaker 3: Like people had to pay for the news, they had

774
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:54,280
Speaker 3: to have a subscription or buy it at the newsstand.

775
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:56,239
Speaker 3: If you wanted to advertise a product, you had to

776
00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:58,560
Speaker 3: advertise it in a local paper, and nobody would know

777
00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:01,680
Speaker 3: what sale was going on store. So it was a

778
00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:04,360
Speaker 3: really really good business until it wasn't right until the

779
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:07,920
Speaker 3: Internet came and made all of that sort of inoperable.

780
00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:10,560
Speaker 3: And I think you know, when when you talk about

781
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:13,040
Speaker 3: what we're trying to do again in the South, in

782
00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:16,560
Speaker 3: these rural areas where there isn't an all Britain, you know,

783
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:20,040
Speaker 3: there isn't a Jeff Bezos like we are really like

784
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:22,600
Speaker 3: having to kind of figure out how do you make

785
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:25,960
Speaker 3: this hyper efficient, how do you stretch every dollar, and

786
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:28,000
Speaker 3: how do you do it in service of a product

787
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:31,120
Speaker 3: that's actually a quality product and not just slop. And

788
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:33,920
Speaker 3: we're doing that here, and so I want to emphasize

789
00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:36,760
Speaker 3: that your point is correct. I think the networked model

790
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:40,760
Speaker 3: where you have a centralized business infrastructure that's supporting multiple

791
00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:43,760
Speaker 3: newsrooms so that they can focus on the news product

792
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:48,920
Speaker 3: and the news gathering. And we're focused on again, you know, revenue, audience.

793
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:52,160
Speaker 2: Technology, all of those things that make that possible.

794
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:58,080
Speaker 1: Let's talk about I think the challenge in local journalism

795
00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:01,680
Speaker 1: as far as the product itself is. I sometimes use

796
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:06,880
Speaker 1: the phrase journalism for journalists, and there's this balance meaning, look,

797
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:10,279
Speaker 1: there's some great stories, but if nobody reads them, you know,

798
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:15,239
Speaker 1: doesn't matter. And you know, I do think there can

799
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:20,160
Speaker 1: be a disconnect at times between those of us who

800
00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:23,440
Speaker 1: want to be the next Bob Woodward and those of

801
00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:26,080
Speaker 1: us and those in the community who simply want what

802
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:29,640
Speaker 1: I call service journalism. And the right balance is you

803
00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:32,479
Speaker 1: got to be both right. You've got to be there

804
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:35,840
Speaker 1: to help people find ways to save money, how to

805
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:39,040
Speaker 1: learn how to navigate local government. You know, sometimes you

806
00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:43,720
Speaker 1: are literally the place that teaches people how the DMV works,

807
00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:48,000
Speaker 1: and there's no that that's by the way. If that

808
00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:50,000
Speaker 1: didn't exist, then you'd have to go to the DMV's

809
00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:53,680
Speaker 1: website itself, and god only knows how clunky their explanation

810
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:56,120
Speaker 1: would be in some way. In some cases, the beauty

811
00:47:56,120 --> 00:47:58,200
Speaker 1: of a local news organization is, I always say, is

812
00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:02,400
Speaker 1: they speak American. There's there's government English, and then there's American,

813
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:05,040
Speaker 1: right like, you know, you want to tell people the reality.

814
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:09,560
Speaker 1: And I think sometimes that balance is difficult because a

815
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:11,919
Speaker 1: young journalist doesn't want to be the ones that help

816
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:14,279
Speaker 1: you navigate the DMV. They want to be the ones

817
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:17,080
Speaker 1: that win the pullets are how do you strike that

818
00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:20,080
Speaker 1: balance and how do you learn from the community, I mean,

819
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:23,200
Speaker 1: because the important accountability stories aren't going to be the

820
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:26,920
Speaker 1: most trafficked any of traffic matters in this situation. So

821
00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:29,560
Speaker 1: it's a it's an interesting balance that all local news

822
00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:31,320
Speaker 1: I think, have to have to find.

823
00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:34,040
Speaker 2: I think it's about leading with values.

824
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:36,120
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, the service journalism is sort of

825
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:38,880
Speaker 3: what leads to the sexy journalism that you're talking about.

826
00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:41,240
Speaker 3: You know, when you talk about being the next Woodward,

827
00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:43,000
Speaker 3: you know, we feel like we have the next Woodward

828
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:46,879
Speaker 3: in Anna Wolf, who won the police Mississipi today. And

829
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:49,279
Speaker 3: she did that by exposing you know, the misuse of

830
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:52,919
Speaker 3: welfare dollars in Mississippi. And by the way, that took

831
00:48:53,239 --> 00:48:56,480
Speaker 3: years and she was going you know through literally just

832
00:48:56,480 --> 00:48:59,359
Speaker 3: just you know, documents and searching for things.

833
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:04,560
Speaker 1: It's almost old fashioned foya story, right, Like it was.

834
00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:07,360
Speaker 3: Pure shoe leather and foya and spending a lot of

835
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:09,960
Speaker 3: time with papers. It was the opposite of sexy. It

836
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:13,840
Speaker 3: was started as service journalism. It became the story that

837
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:16,200
Speaker 3: involved you know, Brett Farm, you know, all of these

838
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:19,719
Speaker 3: people that everybody's heard the story. And you know, I

839
00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:23,440
Speaker 3: think about our New Orleans newsroom that last year exposed

840
00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:26,200
Speaker 3: the junk science behind the conviction of a guy who'd

841
00:49:26,200 --> 00:49:28,640
Speaker 3: been sitting on death row forever. That guy is now

842
00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:30,960
Speaker 3: out of jail and on parole. He was on death

843
00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:34,960
Speaker 3: row in Angola Prison here in Louisiana. And so, you know,

844
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:38,480
Speaker 3: again didn't start with sexy stuff, but ends up in

845
00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:41,080
Speaker 3: a place where it has real impact. And I could

846
00:49:41,080 --> 00:49:43,120
Speaker 3: spend the rest of this podcast go through all the

847
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:45,879
Speaker 3: journalism and all of our newsrooms that that really has

848
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:49,480
Speaker 3: had this kind of impact. But to your point, you know,

849
00:49:49,600 --> 00:49:51,680
Speaker 3: we know that we need to cover sports, and we

850
00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:53,840
Speaker 3: need to cover you know, the great touch points of

851
00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:57,000
Speaker 3: Southern culture like food and music, and we're moving into

852
00:49:57,080 --> 00:49:59,719
Speaker 3: video and audio journalism so we can reach people where

853
00:49:59,719 --> 00:50:02,520
Speaker 3: they are are and not just assume that they want

854
00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:05,520
Speaker 3: to read a two thousand words story about you know,

855
00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:09,120
Speaker 3: torture and abuse in Mississippi prisons. So you know, we're

856
00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:10,880
Speaker 3: trying to do all of those things, but it starts

857
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:14,040
Speaker 3: with the values that we're inculcating into our journalists.

858
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:16,399
Speaker 1: You know. And I when I talk about my as

859
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:20,480
Speaker 1: you know, and I just I think I view local sports,

860
00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:22,640
Speaker 1: whether it's youth sports, high school sports, however, you want

861
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:28,399
Speaker 1: to view as a community bomb bond, right, And when

862
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:31,400
Speaker 1: you think about we're so desperate for fine community bonds,

863
00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:34,799
Speaker 1: and what's a bond that is bigger than politics, Well,

864
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:38,040
Speaker 1: youth sports in some ways is Oh, by the way,

865
00:50:38,200 --> 00:50:40,680
Speaker 1: it happens to be a younger demographic. We all want

866
00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:43,520
Speaker 1: to have younger readers, right, So there's there's a lot

867
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:47,880
Speaker 1: of stickiness here, but it's also expensive to cover local

868
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:52,440
Speaker 1: sports because the audience is small, cumulative, collectively, it's a

869
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:56,239
Speaker 1: gigantic audience. Right, It's a fascinating I mean, trust me,

870
00:50:56,320 --> 00:50:59,400
Speaker 1: I have. I think there's opportunity to scale, but it

871
00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:01,120
Speaker 1: is more or if you come at it from the

872
00:51:01,160 --> 00:51:03,920
Speaker 1: youth sports space, not from necessarily the local news space.

873
00:51:04,239 --> 00:51:06,440
Speaker 1: It is hard to see the scalability when you're just

874
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:09,280
Speaker 1: looking at it as a building block to your community

875
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:15,120
Speaker 1: information headquarters. So it's a it's a it's it's there.

876
00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:19,719
Speaker 1: It's a challenge. I remember Andy Lack saying to me

877
00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:23,640
Speaker 1: the first hire we made was was was the leading

878
00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:26,120
Speaker 1: sports columnists. You know, we knew we need to at least,

879
00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:30,480
Speaker 1: you know, invite readers over. But what works and what

880
00:51:30,560 --> 00:51:33,000
Speaker 1: are some things that you want to try that you

881
00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:36,040
Speaker 1: haven't yet in this in this community sports space.

882
00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:38,440
Speaker 2: Oh it's specifically in sports.

883
00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:42,000
Speaker 3: Well I still think you know that again to your point,

884
00:51:42,080 --> 00:51:44,960
Speaker 3: like sports is really really important.

885
00:51:44,520 --> 00:51:45,280
Speaker 2: In our culture.

886
00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:48,280
Speaker 3: You know, whether it's Friday night high school football, whether

887
00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:50,120
Speaker 3: it's you know, college sports, and I know you've been

888
00:51:50,239 --> 00:51:53,800
Speaker 3: up my alma mater, University of Arkansas, but it's also.

889
00:51:53,719 --> 00:51:56,319
Speaker 1: In high school. I mean, it's what keeps communities from

890
00:51:56,560 --> 00:51:58,960
Speaker 1: beating each other up. The It's sort of what's the

891
00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:03,319
Speaker 1: last thing that communities ignore politics about. Let's just talk

892
00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:05,440
Speaker 1: about the high school game. I mean, I see it,

893
00:52:05,480 --> 00:52:08,160
Speaker 1: and I've spent a lot of time in Pennscola. I've

894
00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:11,480
Speaker 1: got place down there. I consider myself a member of

895
00:52:11,560 --> 00:52:15,560
Speaker 1: Deep South today. And you're larger, you know, I definitely,

896
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:18,080
Speaker 1: and I know this culture and I love it, and

897
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:22,600
Speaker 1: it is not inherently political. And yet these these people

898
00:52:22,600 --> 00:52:26,880
Speaker 1: are getting stereotyped by how frankly the East Coasts sometimes

899
00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:33,120
Speaker 1: covers the region. And yet I can feel the desire

900
00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:36,600
Speaker 1: for community down here I do well.

901
00:52:36,719 --> 00:52:38,680
Speaker 2: And again it's also you know, culture.

902
00:52:38,719 --> 00:52:40,360
Speaker 3: I mean, I like to say that, you know, so

903
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:43,799
Speaker 3: much of what people consider American culture if they're not

904
00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:48,920
Speaker 3: in America, they're really talking about so because if you

905
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:51,040
Speaker 3: ask them, you know, what's American food, you know, they'll

906
00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:52,319
Speaker 3: say barbecue, They'll say fried.

907
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:54,799
Speaker 1: I know, they always think in so America, nobody's ever

908
00:52:54,920 --> 00:52:57,520
Speaker 1: talking about the jello molds from Minnesota.

909
00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:01,920
Speaker 3: I hope not, although I've loved my friends in Minnesota,

910
00:53:01,960 --> 00:53:02,759
Speaker 3: but but I do do.

911
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:06,520
Speaker 1: But like, yeah, there South and the South, Yeah yeah,

912
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:07,000
Speaker 1: And then.

913
00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:08,920
Speaker 3: You know what's what's American music if you're if you're

914
00:53:08,920 --> 00:53:11,960
Speaker 3: not American, Well, it's jazz, it's blues, It's these genres

915
00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:13,920
Speaker 3: that came you know, from right here in New Orleans

916
00:53:13,960 --> 00:53:17,600
Speaker 3: and Mississippi and uh, this this region and even you know,

917
00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:20,040
Speaker 3: when people talk about American writers, they're quick to talk

918
00:53:20,080 --> 00:53:22,839
Speaker 3: about Faulkner and wealthy and you know, and this is

919
00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:27,240
Speaker 3: this is a place deep, deep, deeply rooted in its culture,

920
00:53:27,600 --> 00:53:29,240
Speaker 3: and it is a point of unity.

921
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:31,520
Speaker 1: Please, I think one of the best modern writers today

922
00:53:31,560 --> 00:53:34,560
Speaker 1: is also a Mississippi native, right, Thompson, Well, I mean,

923
00:53:34,760 --> 00:53:37,680
Speaker 1: you know, like it is, there's something about Mississippi that

924
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:40,759
Speaker 1: just produces terrific, uh terrific writers.

925
00:53:41,080 --> 00:53:42,960
Speaker 2: It's true, and I think we need to lean into that.

926
00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:45,360
Speaker 3: And and you know, you would also mention Rick Cleveland,

927
00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:48,640
Speaker 3: who's you know, the sports columnists in Mississippi's kind of

928
00:53:48,640 --> 00:53:51,560
Speaker 3: the the the sports columnists in Mississippi happens.

929
00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:53,319
Speaker 1: To write a fine bomb of sorts, right, you know,

930
00:53:53,360 --> 00:53:55,359
Speaker 1: And there you go, yes.

931
00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:57,680
Speaker 3: And you know, he has a podcast, And this is

932
00:53:57,760 --> 00:53:59,359
Speaker 3: kind of where I wanted to go with us too.

933
00:53:59,360 --> 00:54:02,000
Speaker 3: When you talk about like the younger generation and what

934
00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:04,560
Speaker 3: we need to do. We started experimenting with sort of

935
00:54:04,600 --> 00:54:08,360
Speaker 3: video and audio, you know, a few years ago, and

936
00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:10,279
Speaker 3: what we find is, you know, we still have to

937
00:54:10,320 --> 00:54:12,839
Speaker 3: invest in the reporting. You know, we have to do

938
00:54:12,920 --> 00:54:15,239
Speaker 3: the hard work to come up with the stories. But

939
00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:18,440
Speaker 3: when we're able to translate those into you know, thirty

940
00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:21,439
Speaker 3: to sixty second TikTok videos where you get to see

941
00:54:21,480 --> 00:54:23,840
Speaker 3: the journalist and you make a connection with that person

942
00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:25,480
Speaker 3: and that person's telling you in their own words what

943
00:54:25,520 --> 00:54:29,040
Speaker 3: they reported about that, it really lands and we're getting

944
00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:32,719
Speaker 3: way more engagement, you know, way more views, and it's

945
00:54:32,760 --> 00:54:35,560
Speaker 3: a way of sort of amplifying the impact of the journalism.

946
00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:37,319
Speaker 3: And so we're going to be doing a lot more

947
00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:40,200
Speaker 3: of that, and we recently announced this thing called Deep

948
00:54:40,239 --> 00:54:43,320
Speaker 3: South Today Studios, where we're going to be doing video

949
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:46,600
Speaker 3: across all of our newsrooms as well as audio. Again

950
00:54:46,719 --> 00:54:49,360
Speaker 3: not new to a guy like you who's done video

951
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:52,080
Speaker 3: and of course as a podcast right now, but it's

952
00:54:52,120 --> 00:54:55,600
Speaker 3: important for us to be getting all of our reporting

953
00:54:55,600 --> 00:54:57,319
Speaker 3: out and all the ways that we can on every

954
00:54:57,360 --> 00:54:59,440
Speaker 3: platform and the way that people want to receive it.

955
00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:12,200
Speaker 1: So, you know, it's interesting I think about I'm sure

956
00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:14,799
Speaker 1: I'm gonna pivot AI here because I actually think what

957
00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:19,360
Speaker 1: you're talking about is the perfect response to this AI moment.

958
00:55:19,600 --> 00:55:22,680
Speaker 1: You know, when I think about the unintended consequence of AI,

959
00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:26,759
Speaker 1: one of the upsides that I see that i'm and

960
00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:28,759
Speaker 1: maybe i'm this is the eternal I always say, I'm

961
00:55:28,760 --> 00:55:31,279
Speaker 1: short term pessimistic, long term optimistic. You know, I know

962
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:33,360
Speaker 1: we're going to get it right. I just don't know

963
00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:34,920
Speaker 1: how long it's going to take us to get it right,

964
00:55:34,960 --> 00:55:38,280
Speaker 1: whatever right is. You know, I'll let other people describe

965
00:55:38,280 --> 00:55:40,959
Speaker 1: their version of it, but well, we know we're not there,

966
00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:43,000
Speaker 1: and I think we can all come to that agreement.

967
00:55:44,719 --> 00:55:47,640
Speaker 1: I think that this moment of AI that we're in

968
00:55:47,760 --> 00:55:50,960
Speaker 1: is going to have people crave human connection. I think

969
00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:54,200
Speaker 1: it's going to crave and so in the world of journalism,

970
00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:57,839
Speaker 1: I think this is going to be we're actually going

971
00:55:57,880 --> 00:56:00,480
Speaker 1: to stick to this independent model for a while. You

972
00:56:00,520 --> 00:56:02,480
Speaker 1: know that consolidation. First of all, it's not going to

973
00:56:02,560 --> 00:56:05,120
Speaker 1: make business sense the way it did perhaps in the

974
00:56:05,160 --> 00:56:07,759
Speaker 1: early nineties and then again in the early odds. So

975
00:56:07,800 --> 00:56:09,920
Speaker 1: I don't think you're going to see predators out there right.

976
00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:11,960
Speaker 1: There isn't going to be a Gannette that decides, hey,

977
00:56:11,960 --> 00:56:15,160
Speaker 1: why don't we you know, gobble all these people up there.

978
00:56:15,520 --> 00:56:19,160
Speaker 1: There's some scale here. I think Google took everybody's scale. Okay,

979
00:56:19,200 --> 00:56:21,440
Speaker 1: so Google has everybody scale, So nobody's going to be

980
00:56:21,480 --> 00:56:25,240
Speaker 1: thinking in those terms. But the demand for human connection,

981
00:56:25,360 --> 00:56:29,040
Speaker 1: the demand to trust human curators and to be live

982
00:56:29,120 --> 00:56:31,680
Speaker 1: and in person, so for instance, they got to see it,

983
00:56:31,719 --> 00:56:35,760
Speaker 1: touch it, the byline alone, and all sorts of ways.

984
00:56:35,840 --> 00:56:40,320
Speaker 1: I you know, people are now making personal connective decisions

985
00:56:40,360 --> 00:56:42,640
Speaker 1: and how they get their information. And when you go

986
00:56:42,719 --> 00:56:46,719
Speaker 1: audio in particular, even YouTube you're listening in a headphone,

987
00:56:47,239 --> 00:56:51,840
Speaker 1: and even that physical distinction between turning on a TV

988
00:56:51,920 --> 00:56:55,760
Speaker 1: where everybody hears it versus what am I only going here?

989
00:56:56,239 --> 00:56:59,400
Speaker 1: Well then it's intimate and even more personal. And the

990
00:56:59,480 --> 00:57:01,440
Speaker 1: last thing you want is a bot talking to you

991
00:57:01,480 --> 00:57:06,799
Speaker 1: that way. So I, you know, I sense that opportunity.

992
00:57:06,840 --> 00:57:10,560
Speaker 1: But look, but that doesn't mean AI isn't an incredible

993
00:57:10,640 --> 00:57:16,040
Speaker 1: tool to help you aggregate information, deal with deep databases.

994
00:57:16,120 --> 00:57:18,640
Speaker 1: And you know there's certainly a toolbox aspect of this.

995
00:57:18,720 --> 00:57:22,520
Speaker 1: It's going to be phenomenal and can be phenomenal. So

996
00:57:22,560 --> 00:57:25,760
Speaker 1: how are you guys looking at AI? And you know,

997
00:57:27,040 --> 00:57:29,120
Speaker 1: I think it's a mistake to try to have hard

998
00:57:29,120 --> 00:57:31,880
Speaker 1: and fast rules in the moment because AI is in

999
00:57:31,880 --> 00:57:34,040
Speaker 1: the middle of evolving all the time. We will never

1000
00:57:34,120 --> 00:57:36,160
Speaker 1: use AI. Okay, I bet you said we will never

1001
00:57:36,240 --> 00:57:39,360
Speaker 1: use Wikipedia. Like I remember saying that about Wikipedia and

1002
00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:41,480
Speaker 1: going you know, in hindsight, it turned out Wikipedia is

1003
00:57:41,480 --> 00:57:45,040
Speaker 1: a B minus product, and that's incredible for the Internet, right,

1004
00:57:45,080 --> 00:57:48,439
Speaker 1: B minus is actually at a curve, probably a work right.

1005
00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:53,320
Speaker 1: So Wikipedia today is actually a pretty decent source versus

1006
00:57:53,360 --> 00:57:55,440
Speaker 1: twenty years ago when all of us snobby journalists that

1007
00:57:55,520 --> 00:57:57,760
Speaker 1: do no, no, no, don't you quote your Wikipedia to me?

1008
00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:00,600
Speaker 1: So I'm trying to have a little bit of that

1009
00:58:02,960 --> 00:58:07,280
Speaker 1: of that sort of lack of hubris, I guess about AI.

1010
00:58:07,440 --> 00:58:08,880
Speaker 1: But where are you on it? And how do you do?

1011
00:58:09,000 --> 00:58:09,200
Speaker 4: Yeah?

1012
00:58:09,200 --> 00:58:11,160
Speaker 2: I mean, and I've got a lot to say on this.

1013
00:58:11,240 --> 00:58:14,320
Speaker 3: I want to reiterate something you mentioned, which is, you know,

1014
00:58:14,600 --> 00:58:19,080
Speaker 3: the factor of trust. You know, we are very rooted

1015
00:58:19,120 --> 00:58:21,760
Speaker 3: in place here in the Deep South. The big part

1016
00:58:21,760 --> 00:58:24,520
Speaker 3: of our sort of model, of course is having the newsrooms,

1017
00:58:24,520 --> 00:58:28,040
Speaker 3: you know, locally based, having our journalists in the community.

1018
00:58:28,040 --> 00:58:29,200
Speaker 3: It's really very important to us.

1019
00:58:29,240 --> 00:58:31,280
Speaker 1: And how many people in the community ask and how

1020
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:33,959
Speaker 1: many generations have yours family lived here that's the first

1021
00:58:34,040 --> 00:58:35,600
Speaker 1: question out of their mouth, right.

1022
00:58:35,720 --> 00:58:37,000
Speaker 2: And well, it's a big question.

1023
00:58:37,080 --> 00:58:39,040
Speaker 3: But more importantly, just people want to know that like

1024
00:58:39,120 --> 00:58:41,600
Speaker 3: you actually live there, that you're experiencing the same thing

1025
00:58:41,640 --> 00:58:44,240
Speaker 3: they're experiencing. And it's one thing for us to kind

1026
00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:46,560
Speaker 3: of have like this network model where we're doing these

1027
00:58:46,560 --> 00:58:49,800
Speaker 3: business functions at you know, the Deep South today level.

1028
00:58:49,840 --> 00:58:53,040
Speaker 3: But it's even more important that the newsrooms themselves are

1029
00:58:53,280 --> 00:58:56,360
Speaker 3: again rooted locally. The journalists are in the community, they're seeing,

1030
00:58:57,720 --> 00:58:59,560
Speaker 3: they're touching. You know, we do a lot of in

1031
00:58:59,600 --> 00:59:02,240
Speaker 3: person events. To your point, again, the video and the

1032
00:59:02,240 --> 00:59:04,520
Speaker 3: audio is important so people see the journalists and can

1033
00:59:04,520 --> 00:59:07,640
Speaker 3: make those personal connections. But you know, when it comes

1034
00:59:07,680 --> 00:59:09,840
Speaker 3: to AI, then I think, you know, it's it's important

1035
00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:11,480
Speaker 3: to start with like the fact that I think people

1036
00:59:11,480 --> 00:59:15,320
Speaker 3: can really sniff out the fraudulent aspects of AI. Like

1037
00:59:15,520 --> 00:59:18,840
Speaker 3: just recently, you know, this book was canceled because people

1038
00:59:18,880 --> 00:59:21,200
Speaker 3: figured out I guess as soon as they started reading

1039
00:59:21,240 --> 00:59:23,720
Speaker 3: it that have been generated with AI. I think people

1040
00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:26,680
Speaker 3: see that with articles, they see that with videos and voices,

1041
00:59:26,760 --> 00:59:29,360
Speaker 3: you know, when we're on social media, and so you know,

1042
00:59:29,400 --> 00:59:31,880
Speaker 3: the more that we can kind of again convey the

1043
00:59:31,960 --> 00:59:34,240
Speaker 3: authenticity in our reporting.

1044
00:59:34,280 --> 00:59:36,120
Speaker 2: It's really really important.

1045
00:59:36,120 --> 00:59:39,480
Speaker 3: Now we know that, like all of us use AI

1046
00:59:39,640 --> 00:59:41,840
Speaker 3: even if we don't mean to, because when we're doing

1047
00:59:41,880 --> 00:59:43,920
Speaker 3: like a you know, a Google search, or we.

1048
00:59:43,880 --> 00:59:46,720
Speaker 1: Can't do search anymore without AI getting in the way anyway.

1049
00:59:46,800 --> 00:59:51,040
Speaker 1: And frankly, search is so terrible with all of its advertisements,

1050
00:59:51,480 --> 00:59:54,200
Speaker 1: you know, which takes you eight you know, eh, scrolls

1051
00:59:54,240 --> 00:59:57,040
Speaker 1: before you find the first link that wasn't ad supported, you.

1052
00:59:57,000 --> 00:59:59,400
Speaker 3: Know, right, And and there are AI tools that can

1053
00:59:59,440 --> 01:00:01,720
Speaker 3: make report more easy, like when you're you know, trying

1054
01:00:01,720 --> 01:00:04,720
Speaker 3: to analyze really big data sets, obviously you can do

1055
01:00:04,720 --> 01:00:07,200
Speaker 3: it more efficiently, more accurately if.

1056
01:00:07,040 --> 01:00:07,960
Speaker 2: You know how to use it.

1057
01:00:08,000 --> 01:00:12,080
Speaker 3: And so we're training our journalists in you know, data

1058
01:00:12,120 --> 01:00:15,160
Speaker 3: analysis and the use of data and data visualization and

1059
01:00:15,240 --> 01:00:17,600
Speaker 3: all of those things. But the point is we're doing

1060
01:00:17,600 --> 01:00:21,320
Speaker 3: this in partnership with our journalists. We're not obviously trying

1061
01:00:21,360 --> 01:00:24,360
Speaker 3: to replace human beings. We're not trying to use AP

1062
01:00:24,560 --> 01:00:27,440
Speaker 3: to do sorry AI to do the actual reporting.

1063
01:00:27,800 --> 01:00:30,000
Speaker 1: But you know, it's funny you say that AI shouldn't

1064
01:00:30,040 --> 01:00:32,520
Speaker 1: be used like AP was used by a lot of

1065
01:00:32,560 --> 01:00:35,600
Speaker 1: local news organizations for too long and it ended up

1066
01:00:35,640 --> 01:00:38,240
Speaker 1: I mean talk about your Freudian slips. I actually think

1067
01:00:38,280 --> 01:00:41,400
Speaker 1: it was a wonderful mispake because that was how you

1068
01:00:41,480 --> 01:00:44,000
Speaker 1: knew a local paper had given up when you saw

1069
01:00:44,040 --> 01:00:46,640
Speaker 1: nothing but wire copy on its front page. I mean

1070
01:00:46,680 --> 01:00:49,040
Speaker 1: that used to be the that was, oh it's a

1071
01:00:49,040 --> 01:00:51,960
Speaker 1: wire copy paper. Never mind. I mean literally, that's the

1072
01:00:51,960 --> 01:00:52,760
Speaker 1: way I would feel.

1073
01:00:53,120 --> 01:00:55,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right, I mean definitely with someone.

1074
01:00:55,200 --> 01:00:58,160
Speaker 1: And AI could end up. And that's the point. AP

1075
01:00:58,520 --> 01:01:02,080
Speaker 1: was our version of commodity news. AI is going to

1076
01:01:02,080 --> 01:01:03,480
Speaker 1: be this generation's version of it.

1077
01:01:04,000 --> 01:01:06,840
Speaker 3: And we think our value proposition again is really you know,

1078
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:10,000
Speaker 3: our people, Our people are important.

1079
01:01:10,120 --> 01:01:11,600
Speaker 2: Our people are doing this work.

1080
01:01:11,640 --> 01:01:14,040
Speaker 3: They're making it, you know, better than the work that's

1081
01:01:14,040 --> 01:01:17,040
Speaker 3: happening in other places and again having more impact. So

1082
01:01:17,040 --> 01:01:19,720
Speaker 3: we're going to continue investing in that and upholding that,

1083
01:01:20,120 --> 01:01:22,000
Speaker 3: and any use of AI that we have, you know,

1084
01:01:22,080 --> 01:01:25,520
Speaker 3: in the journalism process will be done decided, you know,

1085
01:01:25,760 --> 01:01:28,320
Speaker 3: in partnership and collaboration with our journalists.

1086
01:01:28,440 --> 01:01:30,880
Speaker 1: Let's talk about the newsrooms you've chosen and the ones

1087
01:01:30,880 --> 01:01:34,480
Speaker 1: that you're potentially going to launch. Yeah, what do you need?

1088
01:01:34,560 --> 01:01:36,840
Speaker 1: What does a community need to have for you to

1089
01:01:36,920 --> 01:01:39,800
Speaker 1: consider going? You know, what you should be part of

1090
01:01:39,800 --> 01:01:41,000
Speaker 1: the Deep South today network.

1091
01:01:41,360 --> 01:01:43,680
Speaker 2: Well, it's what it doesn't have to be honest with you.

1092
01:01:43,760 --> 01:01:46,160
Speaker 3: I mean, we're looking at the places of most need

1093
01:01:46,200 --> 01:01:49,240
Speaker 3: and we're prioritizing those because we want to be additive.

1094
01:01:49,280 --> 01:01:50,480
Speaker 3: We want to go to the places where we can

1095
01:01:50,520 --> 01:01:53,600
Speaker 3: do the most good because now that we've created this infrastructure,

1096
01:01:54,160 --> 01:01:57,000
Speaker 3: but it's so much easier to scale, you know, and

1097
01:01:57,160 --> 01:02:00,000
Speaker 3: and with so much more efficient Like let's take Arkansas,

1098
01:02:00,120 --> 01:02:02,800
Speaker 3: for example, a place where you know, unfortunately it's sort

1099
01:02:02,840 --> 01:02:06,040
Speaker 3: of headed in the direction that Mississippi was ten years ago,

1100
01:02:06,080 --> 01:02:08,480
Speaker 3: where you know, the legacy media has declined, a lot

1101
01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:11,960
Speaker 3: of local news has you know, disappeared.

1102
01:02:11,360 --> 01:02:13,080
Speaker 1: And I want to I want to give a shout

1103
01:02:13,080 --> 01:02:15,680
Speaker 1: out though, to the owner of the Arkansas Democratic.

1104
01:02:15,800 --> 01:02:16,720
Speaker 2: Is that absolutely?

1105
01:02:16,760 --> 01:02:21,960
Speaker 1: Because I feel like they staved this off longer than most.

1106
01:02:22,440 --> 01:02:24,280
Speaker 2: I agree, I completely.

1107
01:02:23,760 --> 01:02:26,919
Speaker 1: Made a pivot to digital quicker than most. Now, look

1108
01:02:27,080 --> 01:02:30,040
Speaker 1: was it was. I was I crazy about all the

1109
01:02:30,040 --> 01:02:32,760
Speaker 1: decisions they made. I wasn't. I think that they did

1110
01:02:32,800 --> 01:02:36,680
Speaker 1: some stuff that I understood why they got sold that software.

1111
01:02:36,880 --> 01:02:38,440
Speaker 1: I think they got sold a bill of goods, you know,

1112
01:02:38,440 --> 01:02:40,800
Speaker 1: when they were trying to make it where you'd see

1113
01:02:40,800 --> 01:02:43,800
Speaker 1: the paper itself in a PDF. There were a lot

1114
01:02:43,840 --> 01:02:47,960
Speaker 1: of local proprietors got caught up in hey, that our

1115
01:02:47,960 --> 01:02:51,320
Speaker 1: newspapers should look exactly like a newspaper does. In the end,

1116
01:02:51,400 --> 01:02:56,000
Speaker 1: it was like, actually, no, that isn't a necessity. But

1117
01:02:56,560 --> 01:03:00,280
Speaker 1: the point being is early on they mitigated that is

1118
01:03:01,280 --> 01:03:04,000
Speaker 1: And I'm curious, do you know them very well? And

1119
01:03:04,040 --> 01:03:06,480
Speaker 1: what have you wanted? And yeah, what do you can

1120
01:03:06,520 --> 01:03:07,440
Speaker 1: you tell me about them?

1121
01:03:07,600 --> 01:03:10,640
Speaker 3: Look, I'm become a University of Arkansas graduate. I lived

1122
01:03:10,680 --> 01:03:12,640
Speaker 3: in Little Rock for most of my adult life. I

1123
01:03:13,000 --> 01:03:15,360
Speaker 3: was an elected official there. I was also in journalism

1124
01:03:15,440 --> 01:03:18,800
Speaker 3: and other endeavors there. And I would always say, you

1125
01:03:18,840 --> 01:03:21,240
Speaker 3: know that that we were so so lucky to have

1126
01:03:21,280 --> 01:03:24,800
Speaker 3: the Democrat Azette because it did sort of uphold again,

1127
01:03:24,920 --> 01:03:27,480
Speaker 3: you know, this quality journalism. It wasn't wire copy to

1128
01:03:27,520 --> 01:03:30,440
Speaker 3: your earlier point. I mean, it was, you know, the

1129
01:03:30,440 --> 01:03:34,240
Speaker 3: only statewide daily newspaper really and so so it.

1130
01:03:34,160 --> 01:03:36,320
Speaker 1: Was and it was a robust, statewide daily, like it

1131
01:03:36,360 --> 01:03:39,360
Speaker 1: felt like it truly covered the state. It sure had

1132
01:03:39,360 --> 01:03:43,400
Speaker 1: a little Rock focus, but it it. They did. They

1133
01:03:43,440 --> 01:03:45,680
Speaker 1: accepted the premise they were a state wide paper.

1134
01:03:46,040 --> 01:03:49,080
Speaker 3: Definitely, And and so you know, I will always say,

1135
01:03:49,160 --> 01:03:51,960
Speaker 3: you know that, like I just really respect and admire

1136
01:03:52,400 --> 01:03:56,040
Speaker 3: that commitment and and what was what they did to

1137
01:03:56,040 --> 01:03:58,960
Speaker 3: to keep that going. I will say, going back to

1138
01:03:59,080 --> 01:04:01,120
Speaker 3: like the very first things we were talking about at

1139
01:04:01,160 --> 01:04:03,520
Speaker 3: the beginning of the podcast, is this is just a

1140
01:04:03,560 --> 01:04:05,960
Speaker 3: tough business, right. I mean, I think like if you're

1141
01:04:05,960 --> 01:04:07,920
Speaker 3: trying to do this on a for profit basis, and

1142
01:04:07,960 --> 01:04:10,120
Speaker 3: you're trying to do it the right way, where you're

1143
01:04:10,120 --> 01:04:13,080
Speaker 3: not trying to cater to a particular ideological or audience

1144
01:04:13,240 --> 01:04:16,440
Speaker 3: or exclude people, but just report the you know, the

1145
01:04:16,840 --> 01:04:21,360
Speaker 3: vegetables and the protein of daily news, you're probably going

1146
01:04:21,440 --> 01:04:23,200
Speaker 3: to have a hard time. And I think they've had

1147
01:04:23,200 --> 01:04:25,440
Speaker 3: a hard time, and so there's been some you know,

1148
01:04:25,680 --> 01:04:30,080
Speaker 3: more kind of unfortunate decline there. But also there's like

1149
01:04:30,120 --> 01:04:32,680
Speaker 3: a lot of need in Arkansas because you have a

1150
01:04:32,720 --> 01:04:35,440
Speaker 3: lot of growth in northwest Arkansas. You have obviously the

1151
01:04:35,480 --> 01:04:38,200
Speaker 3: capital city, Little Rock. You've got rural areas in the

1152
01:04:38,200 --> 01:04:40,560
Speaker 3: Mississippi Delta part of the state that are just lacking

1153
01:04:40,600 --> 01:04:43,800
Speaker 3: in news coverage. And if you want to really prioritize

1154
01:04:43,840 --> 01:04:46,640
Speaker 3: where the need is, Arkansas, like I said, is sort

1155
01:04:46,640 --> 01:04:47,800
Speaker 3: of where Mississippi was.

1156
01:04:47,760 --> 01:04:48,360
Speaker 2: Ten years ago.

1157
01:04:48,480 --> 01:04:52,320
Speaker 3: It's in need of a nonprofit you know, news operation

1158
01:04:52,440 --> 01:04:55,080
Speaker 3: that can fill those gaps, that can work in collaboration

1159
01:04:55,400 --> 01:04:58,240
Speaker 3: with the existing news media in the state, which is

1160
01:04:58,240 --> 01:05:01,360
Speaker 3: what we're going to be doing, and provide that essential

1161
01:05:01,480 --> 01:05:04,160
Speaker 3: information that people need to make decisions about their lives

1162
01:05:04,160 --> 01:05:06,960
Speaker 3: and to participate in their civic life. And the thing is,

1163
01:05:07,360 --> 01:05:10,640
Speaker 3: we can do that much more easily because now instead

1164
01:05:10,640 --> 01:05:12,440
Speaker 3: of somebody who would have to like build everything from

1165
01:05:12,440 --> 01:05:15,600
Speaker 3: scrib up, we've already got all the infrastructure. All we

1166
01:05:15,640 --> 01:05:17,320
Speaker 3: need to do is hire the editors and the reporters

1167
01:05:17,360 --> 01:05:18,040
Speaker 3: and put them to work.

1168
01:05:18,080 --> 01:05:19,040
Speaker 2: And that's what we're going to do.

1169
01:05:19,320 --> 01:05:21,680
Speaker 1: You know what's interesting about Arkansas, as I was, is,

1170
01:05:22,960 --> 01:05:24,360
Speaker 1: you know, I talk about it like, why is it

1171
01:05:24,400 --> 01:05:27,840
Speaker 1: important for a small state to elect a president? I said,

1172
01:05:27,960 --> 01:05:32,200
Speaker 1: because because Bill Clinton approved a new airport for Northwest Arkansas.

1173
01:05:32,480 --> 01:05:35,840
Speaker 1: And I say this because what was the ultimate goal.

1174
01:05:36,360 --> 01:05:39,040
Speaker 1: The ultimate goal was to prevent Walmart and Tyson's Chicken

1175
01:05:39,080 --> 01:05:42,080
Speaker 1: from headquartering in Chicago or somewhere else. But it was

1176
01:05:42,160 --> 01:05:46,040
Speaker 1: Chicago was the most likely place because you know, it's central,

1177
01:05:46,080 --> 01:05:49,200
Speaker 1: and you know it makes you you can't argue against

1178
01:05:49,320 --> 01:05:52,760
Speaker 1: the logic of being in a centralized location like Chicago,

1179
01:05:53,520 --> 01:05:56,800
Speaker 1: and you know, and what essentially, I don't know that

1180
01:05:56,880 --> 01:05:58,600
Speaker 1: it went down this way, but you just sort of

1181
01:05:58,640 --> 01:06:01,440
Speaker 1: like Bill Clinton going, no, well, airport, we're gonna we

1182
01:06:01,480 --> 01:06:05,240
Speaker 1: can make Northwest Arkansas and what's phenomenal to me and work.

1183
01:06:05,240 --> 01:06:07,440
Speaker 1: I'd love for you to take a minute, since you're

1184
01:06:07,480 --> 01:06:10,080
Speaker 1: an Arkansas guy and a native and you know this

1185
01:06:10,320 --> 01:06:13,640
Speaker 1: state better than I do. In the eighties and nineties,

1186
01:06:13,640 --> 01:06:16,640
Speaker 1: Little Rock was the center of everything, center of power,

1187
01:06:16,680 --> 01:06:21,040
Speaker 1: center of culture, center of government. And now I feel

1188
01:06:21,080 --> 01:06:23,840
Speaker 1: like Little Rock is just the center of government, and

1189
01:06:23,920 --> 01:06:27,480
Speaker 1: Fayetteville and Northwest Arkansas has become the sort of the

1190
01:06:27,520 --> 01:06:31,800
Speaker 1: cultural center. You know. Obviously, it's really sort of with

1191
01:06:31,920 --> 01:06:35,400
Speaker 1: the University of Arkansas being and faithful, You've got Walmart,

1192
01:06:35,520 --> 01:06:37,920
Speaker 1: You've got the Tysons and both, you have a lot

1193
01:06:37,920 --> 01:06:41,080
Speaker 1: of family members who chose to stay and invest in

1194
01:06:41,080 --> 01:06:43,760
Speaker 1: the community. So I look at it. It's been a

1195
01:06:43,920 --> 01:06:47,040
Speaker 1: remarkable transformation. And that's why I go back and go

1196
01:06:48,520 --> 01:06:51,800
Speaker 1: it doesn't happen unless without Bill Clinton becoming president. Because

1197
01:06:51,800 --> 01:06:55,080
Speaker 1: Bill Clinton made got them an airport like it is.

1198
01:06:55,320 --> 01:06:59,200
Speaker 1: You cannot under you know. I'm just curious if you've

1199
01:06:59,240 --> 01:07:04,040
Speaker 1: seen this, it looks dramatic from where I sit I

1200
01:07:04,080 --> 01:07:05,720
Speaker 1: spent a lot of time in Little Rock for obvious

1201
01:07:05,760 --> 01:07:08,240
Speaker 1: reasons in the nineties, and so we all got to

1202
01:07:08,280 --> 01:07:10,160
Speaker 1: know Little Rock got the lovel I've had family in

1203
01:07:10,200 --> 01:07:11,800
Speaker 1: Little Rock a long time, so I knew it a

1204
01:07:11,800 --> 01:07:14,840
Speaker 1: little bit before. But it is remarkable to me the

1205
01:07:14,880 --> 01:07:18,360
Speaker 1: incredibly shrinking importance of Little Rock to the state of Arkansas.

1206
01:07:18,560 --> 01:07:21,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I represented Little Rock in the legislature and

1207
01:07:21,160 --> 01:07:23,120
Speaker 3: ran for mayor of Little Rock in twenty eighteen. So

1208
01:07:23,640 --> 01:07:25,480
Speaker 3: you've just you know, pulled the string and now you've

1209
01:07:25,520 --> 01:07:27,360
Speaker 3: gotten me started. And you know, I'll just say this

1210
01:07:27,440 --> 01:07:31,640
Speaker 3: goes back to the nineteenth century. You know, Arkansas's kind

1211
01:07:31,640 --> 01:07:35,760
Speaker 3: of bisected geologically. Half the state is you know, plantation,

1212
01:07:36,000 --> 01:07:39,480
Speaker 3: sort of Mississippi River farmland. The other half is you know,

1213
01:07:39,720 --> 01:07:43,400
Speaker 3: kind of Ozar Boston Mountains. And what that meant for

1214
01:07:43,440 --> 01:07:45,520
Speaker 3: the economy and the politics is that like all the

1215
01:07:45,560 --> 01:07:48,520
Speaker 3: wealth was in the agricultural side, you know, for you know,

1216
01:07:48,560 --> 01:07:50,800
Speaker 3: the first like one hundred hundred and fifty years, the

1217
01:07:50,840 --> 01:07:53,960
Speaker 3: plantation owners controlled you know, the politics in Little Rock.

1218
01:07:54,400 --> 01:07:57,680
Speaker 3: That's why Arkansas affiliated with the Confederacy. Even though everyone

1219
01:07:57,680 --> 01:08:00,880
Speaker 3: who lived in northwest Arkansas in the mountains, they all

1220
01:08:00,960 --> 01:08:03,880
Speaker 3: sort of affiliated and sympathized with the Union, and it

1221
01:08:03,920 --> 01:08:05,600
Speaker 3: created a lot of problems in the politicans.

1222
01:08:05,640 --> 01:08:08,160
Speaker 1: No, it's always been behaved weirdly like a border state,

1223
01:08:08,200 --> 01:08:10,360
Speaker 1: even though it is never technically a border state, right.

1224
01:08:10,360 --> 01:08:11,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, one hundred percent.

1225
01:08:11,760 --> 01:08:14,240
Speaker 3: And then you fast forward to the twentieth century, and

1226
01:08:14,320 --> 01:08:17,360
Speaker 3: you know, obviously as agriculture gets mechanized, you have the

1227
01:08:17,400 --> 01:08:21,000
Speaker 3: great outmigration, people leave. The Delta becomes the poor part

1228
01:08:21,040 --> 01:08:24,240
Speaker 3: of the state. Meanwhile, because you couldn't grow anything in

1229
01:08:24,280 --> 01:08:28,120
Speaker 3: northwest Arkansas, that's where Sam walton O been a general store.

1230
01:08:28,160 --> 01:08:32,160
Speaker 3: That's where the Tysons started raising chickens, and JB. Hunts started,

1231
01:08:32,160 --> 01:08:35,200
Speaker 3: you know, his trucking company. And then over the next

1232
01:08:35,280 --> 01:08:37,679
Speaker 3: fifty years is the aggs out of the stay goes

1233
01:08:37,720 --> 01:08:40,720
Speaker 3: and to decline. These companies I just mentioned become like

1234
01:08:40,840 --> 01:08:44,919
Speaker 3: Fortune one hundred companies, like Fortune fifty companies. They're Walmart's

1235
01:08:44,920 --> 01:08:47,479
Speaker 3: the biggest retailer in the world, Tyson's the biggest protein producer.

1236
01:08:47,520 --> 01:08:47,760
Speaker 4: JB.

1237
01:08:47,800 --> 01:08:51,360
Speaker 3: Hunt's the biggest transportational logistics company like in the world.

1238
01:08:51,560 --> 01:08:54,599
Speaker 3: And they're all in northwest Arkansas. And so to your point,

1239
01:08:55,560 --> 01:08:59,240
Speaker 3: you know, it became richer and it's starting to become

1240
01:08:59,280 --> 01:09:01,640
Speaker 3: more powerful politically. But I will say one more thing,

1241
01:09:01,640 --> 01:09:03,559
Speaker 3: because I used to pound my fist on the table

1242
01:09:03,560 --> 01:09:06,000
Speaker 3: about this in Little Rock. The thing is the folks

1243
01:09:06,040 --> 01:09:08,760
Speaker 3: with the money and the power in northwest Arkansas about

1244
01:09:08,800 --> 01:09:12,120
Speaker 3: twenty five years ago, they pulled everyone together and said

1245
01:09:12,439 --> 01:09:14,760
Speaker 3: we have got to cooperate. Like at the time, all

1246
01:09:14,800 --> 01:09:16,360
Speaker 3: the cities and counties up in that part of the

1247
01:09:16,360 --> 01:09:18,800
Speaker 3: state were fighting over things, and they said, we're going

1248
01:09:18,840 --> 01:09:19,760
Speaker 3: to have one strategy.

1249
01:09:19,800 --> 01:09:20,759
Speaker 2: We're going to be together.

1250
01:09:21,120 --> 01:09:24,200
Speaker 3: We're going to have you know, not just you know, infrastructure,

1251
01:09:24,240 --> 01:09:26,720
Speaker 3: but culture. And it was really you know, the Waltons

1252
01:09:26,760 --> 01:09:27,720
Speaker 3: who drove a lot of this.

1253
01:09:27,880 --> 01:09:29,920
Speaker 1: But you know when you see it, Bettonville and Faydeville

1254
01:09:29,960 --> 01:09:32,799
Speaker 1: or behave like sister cities, not competitors, correct.

1255
01:09:32,840 --> 01:09:36,960
Speaker 3: And they've got bike trails and museums and you know,

1256
01:09:37,160 --> 01:09:41,200
Speaker 3: hotels and and they've done all this together, whereas Central

1257
01:09:41,240 --> 01:09:43,960
Speaker 3: Arkansas unfortunately still fights with itself. And they used to

1258
01:09:44,040 --> 01:09:47,680
Speaker 3: drive me crazy. And I say, that's all about leadership.

1259
01:09:47,720 --> 01:09:50,040
Speaker 3: It's all about who's in charge and who decides to

1260
01:09:50,080 --> 01:09:52,960
Speaker 3: exert their authority to do something good. And they've done

1261
01:09:53,000 --> 01:09:55,360
Speaker 3: something really good in Northwest Arkansas.

1262
01:09:55,080 --> 01:09:57,080
Speaker 1: Now they have and it just feels like the it

1263
01:09:57,240 --> 01:09:59,680
Speaker 1: just you know, you feel the poll and power, right,

1264
01:09:59,720 --> 01:10:03,439
Speaker 1: and business, culture and education all sort of are there.

1265
01:10:03,479 --> 01:10:06,240
Speaker 1: The only thing that they don't have is politics, right,

1266
01:10:06,360 --> 01:10:08,800
Speaker 1: is the government, and.

1267
01:10:08,280 --> 01:10:09,559
Speaker 2: They don't have the state capital.

1268
01:10:09,680 --> 01:10:13,360
Speaker 1: But increasingly like and you can and it's and that

1269
01:10:13,479 --> 01:10:15,400
Speaker 1: is I think it's going to be an interesting source

1270
01:10:15,400 --> 01:10:18,280
Speaker 1: of political tension. Right. You just know that this will

1271
01:10:18,320 --> 01:10:21,880
Speaker 1: this will go back and forth. I mean frankly to

1272
01:10:21,960 --> 01:10:24,640
Speaker 1: a much different degree. But it was sort of like,

1273
01:10:24,880 --> 01:10:28,800
Speaker 1: how this can go. It can go sideways. Miami is

1274
01:10:28,840 --> 01:10:30,680
Speaker 1: the cultural and always has been the sort of the

1275
01:10:31,200 --> 01:10:34,599
Speaker 1: center of Florida, but it's never been the political capital

1276
01:10:34,640 --> 01:10:37,519
Speaker 1: and political capitalism, so you can it can it can

1277
01:10:37,560 --> 01:10:40,519
Speaker 1: sometimes create tension there. So I bring all that up

1278
01:10:40,520 --> 01:10:44,320
Speaker 1: about Arkansas because if you're starting a nonprofit journalistic organization,

1279
01:10:44,400 --> 01:10:46,519
Speaker 1: it's obvious you got to start where the money is

1280
01:10:46,760 --> 01:10:48,880
Speaker 1: because you got to have patrons. And yet at the

1281
01:10:48,920 --> 01:10:51,080
Speaker 1: same time, you just describe where the need is. It's

1282
01:10:51,120 --> 01:10:53,280
Speaker 1: not necessarily where the money people are. And this is

1283
01:10:53,320 --> 01:10:57,760
Speaker 1: the balance of this. Which business model do you pick? Right?

1284
01:10:58,120 --> 01:11:00,479
Speaker 1: Is a nonprofit? Is it a cooperative? Is it a

1285
01:11:00,479 --> 01:11:02,839
Speaker 1: full on for profit? Is it a not for profit,

1286
01:11:03,200 --> 01:11:07,680
Speaker 1: which is slightly different than just a nonprofit. Right, So

1287
01:11:07,920 --> 01:11:12,679
Speaker 1: I say, this is how much do you factor in? Hey,

1288
01:11:12,720 --> 01:11:16,439
Speaker 1: the community we're in has to also have enough Brinkley

1289
01:11:18,320 --> 01:11:19,960
Speaker 1: wealthy patrons. Yeah.

1290
01:11:20,040 --> 01:11:22,799
Speaker 3: Well interestingly, just so you know, I mean, Northwest Arkansas

1291
01:11:22,800 --> 01:11:25,479
Speaker 3: is actually where the need for journalism is more acute

1292
01:11:25,479 --> 01:11:28,519
Speaker 3: than Central Arkansas. Like you know, when I'll tell you

1293
01:11:28,520 --> 01:11:30,320
Speaker 3: when I was starting to work on this project and

1294
01:11:30,360 --> 01:11:32,720
Speaker 3: I was visiting Northwest Arkansas, I just so happened to

1295
01:11:32,760 --> 01:11:34,800
Speaker 3: be there like the day before a primary. This was

1296
01:11:34,800 --> 01:11:37,720
Speaker 3: like a couple of years ago, and I ran into

1297
01:11:37,720 --> 01:11:39,320
Speaker 3: somebody anew on the street and they didn't even know

1298
01:11:39,360 --> 01:11:41,200
Speaker 3: what I was doing, like at the time.

1299
01:11:41,400 --> 01:11:44,759
Speaker 2: And they just like they were just relating to me. Warwick.

1300
01:11:44,840 --> 01:11:47,680
Speaker 3: You know, there's this election tomorrow, and I have no

1301
01:11:47,760 --> 01:11:49,760
Speaker 3: idea who's running for office. I have no idea who

1302
01:11:49,760 --> 01:11:52,800
Speaker 3: to vote for because there's no news up here. And

1303
01:11:52,920 --> 01:11:54,599
Speaker 3: literally they didn't even know what I was up there

1304
01:11:54,640 --> 01:11:57,040
Speaker 3: to do in the first place. And I just I

1305
01:11:57,160 --> 01:12:01,040
Speaker 3: know this is anecdotal, but it's true. And so you

1306
01:12:01,120 --> 01:12:04,040
Speaker 3: have this very again, the fastest growing, richest part of

1307
01:12:04,080 --> 01:12:07,360
Speaker 3: the state doesn't have journalism. But then Also, you know,

1308
01:12:07,680 --> 01:12:10,479
Speaker 3: the rural parts and the poorest parts don't have it either.

1309
01:12:10,840 --> 01:12:12,200
Speaker 3: And I say that to say we're going to be

1310
01:12:12,240 --> 01:12:15,040
Speaker 3: in both places. We're going to see it like, yeah,

1311
01:12:15,080 --> 01:12:17,000
Speaker 3: everyone who needs it, because when I define need, I

1312
01:12:17,040 --> 01:12:20,040
Speaker 3: define it in terms of need and journalism. The other

1313
01:12:20,080 --> 01:12:22,439
Speaker 3: thing I'll just say too, is like we're in an

1314
01:12:22,560 --> 01:12:26,680
Speaker 3: underresourced region, Like we don't have anything close to the

1315
01:12:26,720 --> 01:12:29,959
Speaker 3: wealth of a New York City in La San Francisco, Chicago,

1316
01:12:30,080 --> 01:12:32,920
Speaker 3: d C. So I take it for granted that, like

1317
01:12:32,960 --> 01:12:35,720
Speaker 3: we're doing more with less here no matter what. Like

1318
01:12:36,120 --> 01:12:38,880
Speaker 3: we don't have big philanthropy, we don't have a lot

1319
01:12:38,880 --> 01:12:42,160
Speaker 3: of wealthy people. We have a handful of small successful

1320
01:12:42,200 --> 01:12:44,920
Speaker 3: business owners and in our region, but nothing to the

1321
01:12:44,960 --> 01:12:47,160
Speaker 3: scale of other places. So we're just going to do

1322
01:12:47,240 --> 01:12:49,280
Speaker 3: as much as we can. And that's why we've built

1323
01:12:49,320 --> 01:12:52,439
Speaker 3: such an efficient business model to take advantage of these

1324
01:12:52,479 --> 01:13:01,160
Speaker 3: economies of scale.

1325
01:13:04,439 --> 01:13:07,439
Speaker 1: What other states you've got Arkansas, Uh, We're.

1326
01:13:07,600 --> 01:13:08,720
Speaker 2: Going to be in Arkansas.

1327
01:13:08,840 --> 01:13:11,000
Speaker 3: And I want to emphasize too, we still have room

1328
01:13:11,040 --> 01:13:13,040
Speaker 3: to grow in Mississippi and Louisiana. I mean, we have

1329
01:13:13,640 --> 01:13:15,400
Speaker 3: two newsrooms in Louisiana, but you.

1330
01:13:15,400 --> 01:13:18,280
Speaker 1: Could be you could be in southern Mississippi. You're not

1331
01:13:18,280 --> 01:13:19,040
Speaker 1: in southern mississ and.

1332
01:13:19,040 --> 01:13:21,360
Speaker 3: We're working on that. We definitely want to be on

1333
01:13:21,400 --> 01:13:23,599
Speaker 3: the coast in Mississippi in a in a bigger way.

1334
01:13:24,560 --> 01:13:26,680
Speaker 3: But you know, there are parts of Alabama that need us,

1335
01:13:27,360 --> 01:13:30,519
Speaker 3: there are parts of Tennessee that need us. You know,

1336
01:13:30,600 --> 01:13:32,559
Speaker 3: I can see Georgia is a place we go in.

1337
01:13:32,640 --> 01:13:36,200
Speaker 3: And again, this is not a manifest destiny situation where

1338
01:13:36,200 --> 01:13:39,559
Speaker 3: we want to be everywhere and lick every lollipop. It's

1339
01:13:39,600 --> 01:13:43,439
Speaker 3: just about, you know, trying to find the places where

1340
01:13:43,760 --> 01:13:46,439
Speaker 3: our particular model can do the most good because of

1341
01:13:46,479 --> 01:13:47,360
Speaker 3: the region that we're in.

1342
01:13:47,920 --> 01:13:52,000
Speaker 1: So are you Are you convinced that nonprofit is what

1343
01:13:52,120 --> 01:13:55,840
Speaker 1: it's going to be or do you envision it eventually

1344
01:13:56,520 --> 01:13:59,960
Speaker 1: trying to create a sustainable revenue stream.

1345
01:14:00,439 --> 01:14:02,160
Speaker 2: Well, I think it's sustainable.

1346
01:14:02,200 --> 01:14:04,120
Speaker 3: I mean, the way I would just describe it to

1347
01:14:04,200 --> 01:14:06,480
Speaker 3: you is that, you know, we are a civic institution,

1348
01:14:07,600 --> 01:14:09,720
Speaker 3: sort of the way a college or university or a

1349
01:14:09,800 --> 01:14:12,760
Speaker 3: museum or a performing arts institution, where people understand the

1350
01:14:12,880 --> 01:14:15,719
Speaker 3: value that it has in the community. They also understand

1351
01:14:15,760 --> 01:14:19,000
Speaker 3: that like in most cases, a college, a museum, or

1352
01:14:19,040 --> 01:14:21,559
Speaker 3: a performing arts institution isn't going to work as a

1353
01:14:21,600 --> 01:14:23,720
Speaker 3: for profit. You're not going to make a lot of

1354
01:14:23,760 --> 01:14:26,720
Speaker 3: money from that, but you're going to support it with philanthropy.

1355
01:14:26,760 --> 01:14:29,280
Speaker 3: You're still going to charge tuition, you're still going to

1356
01:14:29,320 --> 01:14:33,280
Speaker 3: sell tickets, you're still going to charge admission. And those

1357
01:14:33,320 --> 01:14:36,200
Speaker 3: are earned revenue sources. And so we're also going to

1358
01:14:36,240 --> 01:14:40,040
Speaker 3: have earned revenue sources. We have earned revenue sources through advertising,

1359
01:14:40,160 --> 01:14:43,960
Speaker 3: through you know, events, sponsorship, through you know sponsorship of

1360
01:14:44,080 --> 01:14:46,439
Speaker 3: things like podcasts and videos and things like that. So

1361
01:14:46,760 --> 01:14:51,080
Speaker 3: earned revenue is a pillar, but it's alongside membership and

1362
01:14:51,160 --> 01:14:55,040
Speaker 3: alongside philanthropy to keep it sustainable. And I don't think

1363
01:14:55,080 --> 01:14:56,960
Speaker 3: there's anything wrong with that, and in fact, I think

1364
01:14:57,000 --> 01:15:01,559
Speaker 3: it's necessary because when you look at journalist, the way

1365
01:15:01,600 --> 01:15:03,800
Speaker 3: you can make a profit in it is by either

1366
01:15:04,320 --> 01:15:07,800
Speaker 3: really appealing to like an ideological niche or appealing to

1367
01:15:07,920 --> 01:15:10,320
Speaker 3: like a particular industry sector.

1368
01:15:10,360 --> 01:15:12,080
Speaker 2: So if you want to get like all the people who.

1369
01:15:11,960 --> 01:15:15,960
Speaker 3: Really need, you know, very specific news about Capitol Hill

1370
01:15:16,080 --> 01:15:18,920
Speaker 3: or very specific news about Wall Street or about you know,

1371
01:15:19,000 --> 01:15:21,320
Speaker 3: Silicon Valley, you can get those people, and you can

1372
01:15:21,360 --> 01:15:25,040
Speaker 3: charge them like premium subscriptions because you're giving them and

1373
01:15:25,080 --> 01:15:28,400
Speaker 3: you know this better than anybody, but for us, again,

1374
01:15:28,439 --> 01:15:31,080
Speaker 3: we're trying to give them meat and potatoes of daily news.

1375
01:15:31,080 --> 01:15:32,880
Speaker 3: It's the kind of stuff people don't think they need

1376
01:15:32,880 --> 01:15:35,840
Speaker 3: to pay for so but they do need it, and

1377
01:15:35,880 --> 01:15:36,760
Speaker 3: we need it to have a.

1378
01:15:36,680 --> 01:15:38,759
Speaker 2: Healthy government and a healthy civic life.

1379
01:15:38,960 --> 01:15:41,719
Speaker 3: So we're doing it as a as a civic good,

1380
01:15:41,760 --> 01:15:43,000
Speaker 3: and we're giving it away for free.

1381
01:15:43,560 --> 01:15:47,040
Speaker 1: What's a what's something that you because you're right about

1382
01:15:47,080 --> 01:15:49,000
Speaker 1: this this it's interesting. You want to pick up on

1383
01:15:49,040 --> 01:15:52,479
Speaker 1: something you said earlier, which is, and I think this

1384
01:15:52,560 --> 01:15:54,920
Speaker 1: has happened. What happened to the Arkansas Democratic is that

1385
01:15:55,200 --> 01:15:59,519
Speaker 1: it arguably is sort of what Bezos has decided how

1386
01:15:59,640 --> 01:16:02,320
Speaker 1: Besils has decided to deal with his problems at the Post,

1387
01:16:02,360 --> 01:16:04,920
Speaker 1: which is, you do have legacy costs. You've been around

1388
01:16:04,920 --> 01:16:08,759
Speaker 1: long enough, you're going to have you know, healthcare costs,

1389
01:16:08,800 --> 01:16:13,880
Speaker 1: pension costs, labor union contracts, all sorts of you know.

1390
01:16:13,960 --> 01:16:17,960
Speaker 1: There's somebody was telling me that, like, you know, the

1391
01:16:18,080 --> 01:16:21,200
Speaker 1: Washington Post has to print ninety thousand copies minimum every

1392
01:16:21,280 --> 01:16:25,439
Speaker 1: day and for a couple of like contracts or whatever.

1393
01:16:25,479 --> 01:16:27,320
Speaker 1: It is, right, and there's sort of like it's a

1394
01:16:27,360 --> 01:16:30,280
Speaker 1: loss leader now, right, And how on how that works

1395
01:16:30,280 --> 01:16:33,080
Speaker 1: and it's like, yeah, you do develop those legacy costs,

1396
01:16:33,120 --> 01:16:37,519
Speaker 1: and that happens, and there is something about Robert Albritton

1397
01:16:37,640 --> 01:16:40,639
Speaker 1: has the luxury of being able to start from scratch.

1398
01:16:40,960 --> 01:16:43,720
Speaker 1: You have the luxury starting from scratch. That doesn't mean

1399
01:16:43,760 --> 01:16:46,720
Speaker 1: you're you're anti union or pro union. It could mean

1400
01:16:46,760 --> 01:16:49,599
Speaker 1: that you're going to probably have employees. At some point

1401
01:16:49,640 --> 01:16:52,320
Speaker 1: you say, hey, we'd like to be unionized New York.

1402
01:16:53,080 --> 01:16:56,040
Speaker 1: And that's the thing. It's it's employee decisions and you

1403
01:16:56,160 --> 01:16:59,400
Speaker 1: go from there. And I think, you know, there's always

1404
01:16:59,439 --> 01:17:02,639
Speaker 1: a there's there's a fine line here on collective bargaining

1405
01:17:02,760 --> 01:17:04,840
Speaker 1: versus individ you know, all of that stuff. And I

1406
01:17:04,840 --> 01:17:09,280
Speaker 1: think every every news organization should make their decisions that way.

1407
01:17:09,320 --> 01:17:14,080
Speaker 1: But what are the I mean in some of this

1408
01:17:14,120 --> 01:17:17,640
Speaker 1: is where you have an advantage and where the Birmingham

1409
01:17:17,680 --> 01:17:20,880
Speaker 1: News and the Arkansas Democratic is that are still sort

1410
01:17:20,920 --> 01:17:23,960
Speaker 1: of you know, they have obligations that they'd love to

1411
01:17:24,200 --> 01:17:26,240
Speaker 1: give up on to focus on what you're doing, and

1412
01:17:26,280 --> 01:17:28,080
Speaker 1: they like, hey, we're just stuck. We can't.

1413
01:17:30,960 --> 01:17:34,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, look, I mean, you know, I again I'll emphasize,

1414
01:17:34,439 --> 01:17:37,120
Speaker 3: I mean, we are able to be a little bit

1415
01:17:37,120 --> 01:17:42,400
Speaker 3: more nimble than these legacy news organizations. And you know,

1416
01:17:42,479 --> 01:17:45,760
Speaker 3: again I think we don't when I look at like

1417
01:17:45,800 --> 01:17:47,519
Speaker 3: what that they've had to do to stay in business.

1418
01:17:47,520 --> 01:17:51,040
Speaker 3: They've had to raise their subscription rates, which in poor

1419
01:17:51,080 --> 01:17:55,880
Speaker 3: places like Arkansas, Mississippi, Louisiana, you know, it leads to

1420
01:17:56,080 --> 01:17:59,080
Speaker 3: fewer people having access to that news and information they're

1421
01:17:59,120 --> 01:18:02,839
Speaker 3: putting out, you know, and most of them have stopped printing.

1422
01:18:03,400 --> 01:18:04,599
Speaker 2: In fact, you know, the Democrat is.

1423
01:18:04,560 --> 01:18:08,439
Speaker 3: Dded famously sort of given out iPads to people, which

1424
01:18:08,479 --> 01:18:10,960
Speaker 3: was a really I think innovative thing that they did.

1425
01:18:11,280 --> 01:18:13,760
Speaker 1: Again, they tried things that like you see what they're

1426
01:18:13,800 --> 01:18:16,040
Speaker 1: trying to do. In hindsight, it I understand why it

1427
01:18:16,080 --> 01:18:16,519
Speaker 1: didn't work.

1428
01:18:17,120 --> 01:18:19,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, but I know, I really do admire them

1429
01:18:19,840 --> 01:18:24,120
Speaker 3: for trying. It was innovative at the time. And but again,

1430
01:18:24,200 --> 01:18:26,680
Speaker 3: like to your point, like when you've got a situation

1431
01:18:26,760 --> 01:18:29,760
Speaker 3: where you have to please shareholders or private owners, you

1432
01:18:29,840 --> 01:18:33,000
Speaker 3: have to generate a profit, and you have all of

1433
01:18:33,040 --> 01:18:34,679
Speaker 3: these sort of you know things like you know, having

1434
01:18:34,720 --> 01:18:38,760
Speaker 3: owning a printing press and having to to service all

1435
01:18:38,800 --> 01:18:40,920
Speaker 3: of this you know, different kind of debt or obligation.

1436
01:18:41,680 --> 01:18:43,120
Speaker 2: It's it's it's a difficult thing.

1437
01:18:43,160 --> 01:18:45,320
Speaker 3: And that's why I really do believe in our model,

1438
01:18:45,400 --> 01:18:47,759
Speaker 3: like as a nonprofit doing it as a public service,

1439
01:18:47,840 --> 01:18:50,719
Speaker 3: knowing that you know, the revenue we do generate gets

1440
01:18:50,760 --> 01:18:52,479
Speaker 3: invested right back into the product.

1441
01:18:53,360 --> 01:18:56,160
Speaker 2: There's there's no sort of you know, doubt about you.

1442
01:18:56,080 --> 01:18:59,599
Speaker 3: Know, where where we're putting the money, why we're doing

1443
01:18:59,680 --> 01:19:04,120
Speaker 3: what we're doing. And then understanding that like going forward,

1444
01:19:04,520 --> 01:19:06,760
Speaker 3: we're going to be supported by our members who are

1445
01:19:06,840 --> 01:19:09,400
Speaker 3: kind of you know, our small dollar donors, who you

1446
01:19:09,439 --> 01:19:12,080
Speaker 3: could call them the equivalent of like subscribers, because these

1447
01:19:12,080 --> 01:19:14,920
Speaker 3: are people who are voluntarily giving a certain amount of

1448
01:19:14,920 --> 01:19:17,519
Speaker 3: money per month just because they value the news that

1449
01:19:17,560 --> 01:19:18,200
Speaker 3: we're providing.

1450
01:19:18,880 --> 01:19:22,320
Speaker 1: I'm a recurring annual donor exactly.

1451
01:19:22,080 --> 01:19:25,160
Speaker 5: Exactly ten dollars, you know, whatever you want to give,

1452
01:19:25,200 --> 01:19:28,759
Speaker 5: pay pay what you can. And we appreciate our members

1453
01:19:28,760 --> 01:19:31,280
Speaker 5: so much and they're kind of our our core foundation.

1454
01:19:31,800 --> 01:19:33,799
Speaker 5: And then you have you know, again, the the revenue

1455
01:19:33,800 --> 01:19:36,680
Speaker 5: we generate through advertising and sponsorship and all of that,

1456
01:19:36,720 --> 01:19:39,640
Speaker 5: which I think is an important pillar. And then and

1457
01:19:39,720 --> 01:19:42,120
Speaker 5: then the philanthropy is what makes you know, the books

1458
01:19:42,160 --> 01:19:45,480
Speaker 5: balance out and give us, you know, also the catalyzing

1459
01:19:45,640 --> 01:19:48,640
Speaker 5: opportunities to do innovative things like we just started an

1460
01:19:48,720 --> 01:19:52,000
Speaker 5: investigative reporting center and partnership with the New York Times.

1461
01:19:52,560 --> 01:19:54,600
Speaker 5: And that was something that we conceived with the New

1462
01:19:54,680 --> 01:19:56,320
Speaker 5: York Times, but then I went out and raised the

1463
01:19:56,320 --> 01:19:59,280
Speaker 5: money for it. Or Andy Lack, who you mentioned at

1464
01:19:59,280 --> 01:20:02,000
Speaker 5: the beginning, who just made a very important gift to

1465
01:20:02,080 --> 01:20:04,559
Speaker 5: us so we could further invest in our deep South

1466
01:20:04,560 --> 01:20:07,160
Speaker 5: to day studios and do more video and audio.

1467
01:20:07,280 --> 01:20:09,880
Speaker 3: So so again. But it's like when you read about

1468
01:20:09,880 --> 01:20:12,559
Speaker 3: a college or university getting a philanthropic gift to do

1469
01:20:12,640 --> 01:20:16,280
Speaker 3: something awesome around medical research or whatever it is. Right,

1470
01:20:16,920 --> 01:20:20,880
Speaker 3: people are going to understand more and more how journalism

1471
01:20:20,960 --> 01:20:26,120
Speaker 3: truly is a civic institution, because without it, our democracy

1472
01:20:26,200 --> 01:20:27,000
Speaker 3: just doesn't work.

1473
01:20:27,320 --> 01:20:30,160
Speaker 1: That's an interesting look. I will, I will confess to

1474
01:20:30,200 --> 01:20:34,599
Speaker 1: being I believe you know, I want to try to

1475
01:20:35,000 --> 01:20:38,559
Speaker 1: make most of these work without being a nonprofit, right

1476
01:20:38,680 --> 01:20:42,479
Speaker 1: I am because I think you can get donor fatigue.

1477
01:20:42,520 --> 01:20:45,559
Speaker 1: I'm sure you hit you you know how that feels? Right?

1478
01:20:45,720 --> 01:20:49,439
Speaker 1: You know and want to you want to try to

1479
01:20:49,439 --> 01:20:51,599
Speaker 1: be able to how can you handle the lean times? Right?

1480
01:20:51,760 --> 01:20:53,919
Speaker 1: You know, I've got a friend of mine who's obsessed

1481
01:20:53,960 --> 01:20:57,040
Speaker 1: with getting local news organizations to buy buildings, you know,

1482
01:20:57,360 --> 01:20:59,240
Speaker 1: go get real estate again, so that way in the

1483
01:20:59,280 --> 01:21:01,479
Speaker 1: tough times, you something to borrow again so you can

1484
01:21:01,520 --> 01:21:03,960
Speaker 1: make payroll. And I thought it was an interesting you

1485
01:21:04,000 --> 01:21:07,479
Speaker 1: know that that you know, that's why ann Alden came

1486
01:21:07,520 --> 01:21:09,479
Speaker 1: in and bought all these newspapers because they wanted the

1487
01:21:09,520 --> 01:21:12,240
Speaker 1: real estate you know there was that was the value

1488
01:21:12,320 --> 01:21:14,720
Speaker 1: they saw in some of like the Denver Posts and

1489
01:21:14,800 --> 01:21:17,479
Speaker 1: it's downtown real estate or the Miami Herald, that incredible

1490
01:21:17,520 --> 01:21:22,519
Speaker 1: real estate at one time in Miami, And uh, it

1491
01:21:22,640 --> 01:21:27,400
Speaker 1: is it is interesting. I I've not heard somebody make

1492
01:21:27,479 --> 01:21:29,880
Speaker 1: the case the way you're making it, in a really

1493
01:21:30,000 --> 01:21:32,760
Speaker 1: smart way that it's like, look, and you don't want

1494
01:21:32,800 --> 01:21:35,600
Speaker 1: to say newspapers are a museum, and I kind of like,

1495
01:21:35,680 --> 01:21:40,600
Speaker 1: you know, but when I think about, like take a

1496
01:21:40,800 --> 01:21:44,200
Speaker 1: let's let's talk about how the how Faytteville gets it and

1497
01:21:44,520 --> 01:21:47,479
Speaker 1: gets all these people to stop at their tours and

1498
01:21:47,560 --> 01:21:50,040
Speaker 1: why do they do that? Because you do have patrons

1499
01:21:50,640 --> 01:21:53,160
Speaker 1: that come in and will spend the extra money to

1500
01:21:53,200 --> 01:21:57,360
Speaker 1: make sure Faytefeld makes it onto the major stops for

1501
01:21:57,920 --> 01:22:04,280
Speaker 1: musicals or play or maybe artists tours, you know, if

1502
01:22:04,280 --> 01:22:08,040
Speaker 1: they want to show their work and this sort of

1503
01:22:08,120 --> 01:22:12,320
Speaker 1: public private partnership anyway, it's you've articulated it better than

1504
01:22:12,320 --> 01:22:16,160
Speaker 1: I've heard others in making the nonprofit case. That look,

1505
01:22:16,200 --> 01:22:19,759
Speaker 1: it's more of a public private partnership like a private

1506
01:22:19,880 --> 01:22:22,840
Speaker 1: frankly like a private university more. It's more of a

1507
01:22:22,880 --> 01:22:26,439
Speaker 1: private university partnership necessarily than the public because I assume

1508
01:22:26,479 --> 01:22:29,519
Speaker 1: you're not looking for government money. Some do. Some news

1509
01:22:29,600 --> 01:22:33,000
Speaker 1: organizations are hoping. You know, I'm more open to the

1510
01:22:33,040 --> 01:22:38,040
Speaker 1: idea of tax breaks for local advertising than subsidy subsidizing

1511
01:22:38,160 --> 01:22:42,479
Speaker 1: directly workers. But you know, I know some people are

1512
01:22:42,479 --> 01:22:46,639
Speaker 1: looking to state governments for some financial subsidies for local needs.

1513
01:22:47,439 --> 01:22:49,639
Speaker 3: You know, as a former elected official, I don't want

1514
01:22:50,120 --> 01:22:52,400
Speaker 3: us to be anywhere near government money.

1515
01:22:52,479 --> 01:22:54,600
Speaker 2: I don't think it's appropriate.

1516
01:22:54,600 --> 01:22:57,280
Speaker 3: But I also don't think it's It's a it's a

1517
01:22:57,360 --> 01:23:00,040
Speaker 3: dangerous game to play, I think sometimes.

1518
01:22:59,760 --> 01:23:01,640
Speaker 1: Because all the many you take it, then you're just

1519
01:23:01,720 --> 01:23:04,080
Speaker 1: compromised yourself, even you don't even hundred percent.

1520
01:23:04,160 --> 01:23:06,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, and our job is to stay neutral and objective

1521
01:23:07,000 --> 01:23:09,280
Speaker 3: and to and I hold people in power to account,

1522
01:23:09,360 --> 01:23:11,720
Speaker 3: and so we can't kind of be vulnerable to that

1523
01:23:11,800 --> 01:23:14,080
Speaker 3: kind of stuff. So so no, and and again, I

1524
01:23:14,120 --> 01:23:16,679
Speaker 3: mean I want to emphasize too, Like I am all

1525
01:23:16,760 --> 01:23:19,600
Speaker 3: for people who can make a profit doing journalism in

1526
01:23:19,600 --> 01:23:22,559
Speaker 3: the right way, and I want you and everybody else

1527
01:23:22,560 --> 01:23:24,960
Speaker 3: to be successful in that. But I do think that

1528
01:23:25,080 --> 01:23:28,040
Speaker 3: like in this day and age, it is really difficult

1529
01:23:28,120 --> 01:23:32,200
Speaker 3: again just to deliver the straight you know, essential news

1530
01:23:32,240 --> 01:23:35,160
Speaker 3: and information, and especially regions like ours that don't have

1531
01:23:35,200 --> 01:23:38,559
Speaker 3: a lot of wealth to begin with, without it being

1532
01:23:38,840 --> 01:23:40,920
Speaker 3: in some degree like a public trust.

1533
01:23:41,000 --> 01:23:42,719
Speaker 2: It's it's uh, that's why.

1534
01:23:42,600 --> 01:23:46,040
Speaker 3: I compare it to these other institutions, because nobody begrudges.

1535
01:23:45,600 --> 01:23:48,560
Speaker 1: Now the museum, and the and the and the local playhouse.

1536
01:23:48,720 --> 01:23:51,759
Speaker 1: That feels that that that makes a lot of sense

1537
01:23:51,760 --> 01:23:55,439
Speaker 1: to me, like putting it in those categories, yeah, or

1538
01:23:55,439 --> 01:23:57,760
Speaker 1: the private university. What do you hope to get out

1539
01:23:57,800 --> 01:23:59,519
Speaker 1: of Local News Day? I mean, I know you're you're

1540
01:23:59,560 --> 01:24:03,920
Speaker 1: more than just a just a cheerleader for John Adams.

1541
01:24:03,920 --> 01:24:08,400
Speaker 1: You guys are a partner organization, you know. I mean, look,

1542
01:24:08,520 --> 01:24:12,479
Speaker 1: it is literally what I've described it as. It is

1543
01:24:12,479 --> 01:24:15,439
Speaker 1: an awareness day. Guess what. And if you don't have

1544
01:24:15,520 --> 01:24:17,400
Speaker 1: local news, you should be asking for more of it

1545
01:24:17,520 --> 01:24:19,400
Speaker 1: right in your community. But what do you hope to

1546
01:24:19,400 --> 01:24:21,040
Speaker 1: get out of it? How do you guys want to

1547
01:24:21,120 --> 01:24:23,599
Speaker 1: want to use the day and what do you. Obviously

1548
01:24:23,760 --> 01:24:28,360
Speaker 1: John and hopes it's something that that is an annual

1549
01:24:28,360 --> 01:24:29,479
Speaker 1: event all Lah Earthday.

1550
01:24:30,200 --> 01:24:32,160
Speaker 2: I'm sure it will be. I mean, let me cheerlead

1551
01:24:32,200 --> 01:24:34,240
Speaker 2: for John for a second. Even though you said I

1552
01:24:34,280 --> 01:24:34,720
Speaker 2: don't have to.

1553
01:24:34,800 --> 01:24:38,240
Speaker 3: I mean, he this was his idea and the fact

1554
01:24:38,240 --> 01:24:41,800
Speaker 3: that he was able to manifest that into what now

1555
01:24:41,840 --> 01:24:45,560
Speaker 3: it's become, which is I mean, you know, so many partners.

1556
01:24:45,120 --> 01:24:48,120
Speaker 1: So many quests and so much fifty or seven hundred

1557
01:24:48,160 --> 01:24:49,599
Speaker 1: partners or something only the.

1558
01:24:49,560 --> 01:24:51,880
Speaker 3: First year too, which means I think there's no doubt

1559
01:24:51,960 --> 01:24:55,320
Speaker 3: it's going to be sustainable in perpetuity and it's only

1560
01:24:55,360 --> 01:24:57,720
Speaker 3: going to get bigger. But to have achieved this just

1561
01:24:57,760 --> 01:24:59,960
Speaker 3: in the first year is incredible. So kudos to John

1562
01:25:00,160 --> 01:25:04,640
Speaker 3: for conceiving this and inviting us all to participate. But

1563
01:25:04,760 --> 01:25:06,439
Speaker 3: to your point, I mean, I think there's a lot

1564
01:25:06,479 --> 01:25:08,960
Speaker 3: of work to do to raise awareness about local news.

1565
01:25:09,000 --> 01:25:10,840
Speaker 2: I think, you know, we all have to.

1566
01:25:11,040 --> 01:25:13,040
Speaker 3: It's sort of like politicians who think, you know, people

1567
01:25:13,040 --> 01:25:16,000
Speaker 3: are paying attention to the bill that they've introduced, when

1568
01:25:16,040 --> 01:25:18,040
Speaker 3: really everybody's just trying to get their kids to school

1569
01:25:18,120 --> 01:25:20,800
Speaker 3: and get the groceries and go to work. It's the

1570
01:25:20,800 --> 01:25:23,560
Speaker 3: same thing with local news, Like we're obviously very fixated

1571
01:25:23,560 --> 01:25:25,599
Speaker 3: on what we're trying to accomplish, but most people just

1572
01:25:26,000 --> 01:25:28,559
Speaker 3: look at their phone and they don't usually even know

1573
01:25:28,600 --> 01:25:31,360
Speaker 3: where the information they're reading is coming from. Like there,

1574
01:25:31,760 --> 01:25:34,400
Speaker 3: it's already been through two or three like iterations, right,

1575
01:25:34,520 --> 01:25:38,320
Speaker 3: like somebody's reposting something that appeared somewhere else, or an influencer.

1576
01:25:38,560 --> 01:25:40,479
Speaker 1: It's the worst game of telephone, right.

1577
01:25:40,640 --> 01:25:44,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know for a fact, like we generate where

1578
01:25:44,760 --> 01:25:46,920
Speaker 3: like we are the primary source for so much news

1579
01:25:46,960 --> 01:25:49,720
Speaker 3: and information yet are hardly ever credited for it, which

1580
01:25:49,760 --> 01:25:52,760
Speaker 3: is okay because it's just getting out in all the

1581
01:25:52,800 --> 01:25:56,519
Speaker 3: different ways across you know, the world, and so local

1582
01:25:56,560 --> 01:25:59,960
Speaker 3: news day is that maybe that moment for people to understand,

1583
01:26:00,240 --> 01:26:03,960
Speaker 3: maybe for a split second, that you know, this information

1584
01:26:04,040 --> 01:26:07,240
Speaker 3: comes from somewhere. It's really important. It's even more important

1585
01:26:07,280 --> 01:26:10,960
Speaker 3: because it's local. It's not the hundredth version of what's

1586
01:26:11,040 --> 01:26:14,599
Speaker 3: going on in DC. It's actually what's happening in your community,

1587
01:26:14,600 --> 01:26:16,920
Speaker 3: and were not for us, you wouldn't know about it,

1588
01:26:17,280 --> 01:26:19,320
Speaker 3: and it's affecting your life, you know, when you turn

1589
01:26:19,360 --> 01:26:22,639
Speaker 3: on the faucet or when you're you know, hope hopefully you.

1590
01:26:22,600 --> 01:26:25,559
Speaker 1: Know, they don't have total We've had a drinking water

1591
01:26:25,640 --> 01:26:27,760
Speaker 1: issue in Jackson, Mississippi. I find it to be the

1592
01:26:27,760 --> 01:26:30,439
Speaker 1: most shameful, right, I find it to be the most

1593
01:26:30,479 --> 01:26:33,960
Speaker 1: shameful fact that a state capital in the United States

1594
01:26:34,000 --> 01:26:39,400
Speaker 1: of America didn't have drinking water that they could reliable

1595
01:26:39,479 --> 01:26:45,160
Speaker 1: drinking water, and our federal government just shrugs, like I

1596
01:26:45,200 --> 01:26:47,760
Speaker 1: found the whole thing to be like this entire But

1597
01:26:47,800 --> 01:26:50,600
Speaker 1: it's like, this is why local news is there, this

1598
01:26:50,720 --> 01:26:53,200
Speaker 1: is why we're pound it. It's like, you know, you

1599
01:26:53,280 --> 01:26:56,559
Speaker 1: got to have it there and look, yes, and to

1600
01:26:56,600 --> 01:26:58,800
Speaker 1: make sure you're reading local news every day. We'll tell

1601
01:26:58,800 --> 01:27:02,200
Speaker 1: you where to find cheaper or chicken or gas or

1602
01:27:03,280 --> 01:27:06,120
Speaker 1: these other things too. Right, Like, you know, there's no

1603
01:27:06,160 --> 01:27:09,920
Speaker 1: doubt you want to be the the community guide for

1604
01:27:10,120 --> 01:27:13,120
Speaker 1: surviving in your community, surviving and thriving. Right, there's the

1605
01:27:13,160 --> 01:27:15,680
Speaker 1: survival part of journalism, and then there's the thriving part

1606
01:27:15,720 --> 01:27:19,400
Speaker 1: of life. We'll do that too. But you know, when

1607
01:27:19,439 --> 01:27:24,200
Speaker 1: you think about just the small things that that Mississippi needs,

1608
01:27:24,439 --> 01:27:26,639
Speaker 1: you know, just letting people know that somebody is paying

1609
01:27:26,680 --> 01:27:29,559
Speaker 1: attention to the to Jackson. I mean even though it's

1610
01:27:29,560 --> 01:27:32,320
Speaker 1: a state capital, you couldn't get state loanmakers to worry about.

1611
01:27:32,160 --> 01:27:34,639
Speaker 2: It, right, and and and again.

1612
01:27:34,720 --> 01:27:36,639
Speaker 3: The reason why we are doing this in the first

1613
01:27:36,680 --> 01:27:40,280
Speaker 3: place because you know, the other news organizations have kind

1614
01:27:40,280 --> 01:27:43,519
Speaker 3: of you know, filtered out, and so we're sort of

1615
01:27:43,520 --> 01:27:44,320
Speaker 3: standing in the breach.

1616
01:27:44,520 --> 01:27:47,200
Speaker 1: And I want to I want to land the plane

1617
01:27:47,920 --> 01:27:50,479
Speaker 1: quickly in two ways. One is print dead or do

1618
01:27:50,520 --> 01:27:55,640
Speaker 1: you see a a path for some print in a

1619
01:27:55,840 --> 01:27:57,600
Speaker 1: in the in the future of local news like a

1620
01:27:57,640 --> 01:28:01,320
Speaker 1: weekly or twice weekly or nation And I say this,

1621
01:28:02,120 --> 01:28:06,400
Speaker 1: I'm sort of seeding the question here. Different local news

1622
01:28:06,520 --> 01:28:11,200
Speaker 1: entrepreneurs are starting to dabble again in some print, and

1623
01:28:11,240 --> 01:28:14,080
Speaker 1: it's usually on a weekly or a twice weekly basis.

1624
01:28:14,120 --> 01:28:15,559
Speaker 1: But I'm curious what you guys have found.

1625
01:28:16,000 --> 01:28:17,760
Speaker 2: No, I think what you said is insacher. It's kind

1626
01:28:17,800 --> 01:28:20,160
Speaker 2: of like, you know, the resurgence of vinyl and music.

1627
01:28:20,200 --> 01:28:24,200
Speaker 2: It's like there's going to be opportunities for niche products

1628
01:28:24,439 --> 01:28:26,400
Speaker 2: in print, Like it's not going to be how people

1629
01:28:26,439 --> 01:28:29,479
Speaker 2: consume their daily news. But could you put out, you know,

1630
01:28:29,600 --> 01:28:34,320
Speaker 2: a monthly compendium of news? Could you focus I think.

1631
01:28:34,240 --> 01:28:37,280
Speaker 1: Give you simply did local obituaries for the week. I

1632
01:28:37,360 --> 01:28:40,120
Speaker 1: know that sounds people. You know, that is a commune.

1633
01:28:40,120 --> 01:28:42,120
Speaker 1: I've always said, you know, the one of the most

1634
01:28:42,160 --> 01:28:43,800
Speaker 1: important things you've got to do if you're going to

1635
01:28:43,840 --> 01:28:46,040
Speaker 1: be a local news entrepreneur is celebrate the lives in

1636
01:28:46,080 --> 01:28:48,800
Speaker 1: your community, and the obituary page is no better place

1637
01:28:48,840 --> 01:28:49,240
Speaker 1: to do it.

1638
01:28:49,560 --> 01:28:51,559
Speaker 3: That's right, or you know, in those areas of culture,

1639
01:28:51,760 --> 01:28:55,040
Speaker 3: I think you know, the coffee table presence, the physicality

1640
01:28:55,080 --> 01:28:56,600
Speaker 3: of it is still a value that I used to

1641
01:28:56,640 --> 01:28:59,519
Speaker 3: publish a magazine called The Oxford American, so I know.

1642
01:28:59,479 --> 01:29:01,920
Speaker 2: The value who I remember that with a print product, but.

1643
01:29:02,320 --> 01:29:06,360
Speaker 3: It's too disposable for daily news utilization.

1644
01:29:06,400 --> 01:29:08,040
Speaker 2: It doesn't economics make sense.

1645
01:29:08,200 --> 01:29:10,920
Speaker 1: But you start, I can start to see the and

1646
01:29:11,000 --> 01:29:15,639
Speaker 1: what's interesting. I've also heard that classifieds in a limited

1647
01:29:15,680 --> 01:29:20,320
Speaker 1: capacity are an opportunity, again because of the localized nature,

1648
01:29:20,720 --> 01:29:24,200
Speaker 1: meaning there is a sense of I just want people

1649
01:29:24,200 --> 01:29:26,960
Speaker 1: in the community. I'm not interested in advertising. You know,

1650
01:29:26,960 --> 01:29:28,600
Speaker 1: if you're looking for a dog walker, you're not going

1651
01:29:28,680 --> 01:29:30,600
Speaker 1: to put that on indeed, right, or you're not going

1652
01:29:30,640 --> 01:29:32,760
Speaker 1: to put that on Craigslist. You actually, you know, might

1653
01:29:32,840 --> 01:29:35,360
Speaker 1: do that. You know, you'd want to have a local

1654
01:29:35,439 --> 01:29:38,679
Speaker 1: So I've heard that, let me ask one other aspect,

1655
01:29:38,960 --> 01:29:44,599
Speaker 1: the local local independent radio and public radio in particular,

1656
01:29:44,640 --> 01:29:47,760
Speaker 1: has been gutted. We know, we know the situation as

1657
01:29:47,760 --> 01:29:50,040
Speaker 1: to why what does that meant? In Mississippi, a lot

1658
01:29:50,080 --> 01:29:53,880
Speaker 1: of these rural, poor communities the only source of information

1659
01:29:54,720 --> 01:29:58,960
Speaker 1: was local public radio. There's a lot of there's a

1660
01:29:59,000 --> 01:30:02,320
Speaker 1: lot of innovation taking place with some local radio pioneers

1661
01:30:02,320 --> 01:30:05,280
Speaker 1: that I've been curious where you guys are at, how

1662
01:30:05,360 --> 01:30:08,320
Speaker 1: much do you work with? What's left? How is the

1663
01:30:08,880 --> 01:30:11,400
Speaker 1: I'm going to focus on Misissippi and Louisiana. What is

1664
01:30:11,400 --> 01:30:14,479
Speaker 1: the public radio situation like in those two places? Right now? Yeah?

1665
01:30:14,520 --> 01:30:15,880
Speaker 3: No, I know you left this for the end, but

1666
01:30:15,920 --> 01:30:18,760
Speaker 3: this is actually something we've been working really hard on

1667
01:30:18,840 --> 01:30:22,400
Speaker 3: with our friends in public radio. So whether it's the

1668
01:30:22,439 --> 01:30:26,120
Speaker 3: local affiliates here in Louisiana, Mississippi, also Arkansas, I'll say,

1669
01:30:26,920 --> 01:30:28,720
Speaker 3: or whether you know even at the regional level with

1670
01:30:28,800 --> 01:30:32,840
Speaker 3: the Gulf States newsroom here and the national level, I'll

1671
01:30:32,880 --> 01:30:36,320
Speaker 3: just say, uh, stay tuned, as maybe you would say,

1672
01:30:36,360 --> 01:30:38,120
Speaker 3: because we've got some really.

1673
01:30:38,200 --> 01:30:41,320
Speaker 1: Some real opportunities in there. I think I think there, Yeah,

1674
01:30:41,400 --> 01:30:42,680
Speaker 1: that's what I've been hopeful for.

1675
01:30:42,720 --> 01:30:42,800
Speaker 3: That.

1676
01:30:42,920 --> 01:30:47,640
Speaker 1: Look, public radio, I'm you know, it is such a

1677
01:30:47,880 --> 01:30:50,920
Speaker 1: localized lifeline that there should be a partnership with local

1678
01:30:50,920 --> 01:30:53,439
Speaker 1: media in general. And I think there's opportunities there, and

1679
01:30:53,720 --> 01:30:54,160
Speaker 1: I think.

1680
01:30:54,120 --> 01:30:57,640
Speaker 3: The distinction between public media and like nonprofit media is

1681
01:30:57,640 --> 01:31:01,360
Speaker 3: basically gone now that obviously the governments really investing in that.

1682
01:31:01,560 --> 01:31:03,240
Speaker 3: So we need to find a way to bring it

1683
01:31:03,240 --> 01:31:07,880
Speaker 3: together and again find some some awesome collaborative opportunities to

1684
01:31:08,120 --> 01:31:10,599
Speaker 3: do what we do respectively even better together.

1685
01:31:12,439 --> 01:31:15,599
Speaker 1: Waick. Look, you're one of the you know, first when

1686
01:31:15,640 --> 01:31:17,840
Speaker 1: I when I wanted to you know, when I left

1687
01:31:17,840 --> 01:31:19,800
Speaker 1: Meet the Press and left NBC and wanted to throw

1688
01:31:19,840 --> 01:31:21,640
Speaker 1: myself in local news, I think you were like the

1689
01:31:21,680 --> 01:31:23,960
Speaker 1: first person I talked to and really gave me a

1690
01:31:23,960 --> 01:31:28,200
Speaker 1: great education and doing that and and my my friendship

1691
01:31:28,200 --> 01:31:31,080
Speaker 1: with Andy, I'm obviously a huge cheerleader of what you're

1692
01:31:31,120 --> 01:31:35,599
Speaker 1: doing over there in general. But but you've you sort

1693
01:31:35,600 --> 01:31:40,400
Speaker 1: of both. You have this ability and it's very important

1694
01:31:40,400 --> 01:31:43,200
Speaker 1: in this in this world that we're all trying to rebuild. Here.

1695
01:31:43,720 --> 01:31:46,559
Speaker 1: You see the local need and you see the place,

1696
01:31:47,760 --> 01:31:50,040
Speaker 1: you see what national could be, and you seem to

1697
01:31:50,040 --> 01:31:52,600
Speaker 1: be like I'm trying to figure out how to be

1698
01:31:52,640 --> 01:31:55,559
Speaker 1: in both places, and it is just there's not a

1699
01:31:55,560 --> 01:31:59,320
Speaker 1: lot of and perhaps your previous experience in publishing helps

1700
01:31:59,320 --> 01:32:01,200
Speaker 1: with that. But I think, thank you you sort of

1701
01:32:01,200 --> 01:32:03,240
Speaker 1: see this in a way. There's a few yourself, There's

1702
01:32:03,280 --> 01:32:06,240
Speaker 1: my friend John Ralston out in Nevada. There's only a

1703
01:32:06,240 --> 01:32:08,880
Speaker 1: handful of people that sort of both see the micro

1704
01:32:09,040 --> 01:32:11,720
Speaker 1: and macro at the same time. And I think that's

1705
01:32:11,760 --> 01:32:14,000
Speaker 1: a that's you know, that's what makes a good publisher.

1706
01:32:14,040 --> 01:32:16,000
Speaker 1: You've got to be able to do both both left

1707
01:32:16,000 --> 01:32:18,360
Speaker 1: brain and right brain stuff. So kudos to you, and

1708
01:32:18,520 --> 01:32:20,160
Speaker 1: I can't wait to see what you guys do next.

1709
01:32:20,439 --> 01:32:20,880
Speaker 2: Well, thank you.

1710
01:32:20,920 --> 01:32:22,680
Speaker 3: That's a high compliment. And I'll just say, I mean,

1711
01:32:22,760 --> 01:32:24,640
Speaker 3: I'm so glad you're in it. It's great to be

1712
01:32:24,680 --> 01:32:27,520
Speaker 3: in it with you, and I really appreciate this opportunity

1713
01:32:27,520 --> 01:32:28,840
Speaker 3: to have this conversation, So thank you.

1714
01:32:28,840 --> 01:32:32,080
Speaker 1: All right, April ninth, Local News Day. What it really

1715
01:32:32,120 --> 01:32:34,559
Speaker 1: means is, if you're in Mississippi, sign up for a

1716
01:32:34,640 --> 01:32:38,720
Speaker 1: yearly subscription to Mississippi Today, or if you're in Louisiana,

1717
01:32:38,760 --> 01:32:40,400
Speaker 1: sign up for give me, give me the names of the.

1718
01:32:40,400 --> 01:32:42,640
Speaker 2: Pubs Verite News and the Current.

1719
01:32:43,280 --> 01:32:46,200
Speaker 1: Veritae News, and the current is in Lafayette. That's correct,

1720
01:32:46,360 --> 01:32:50,320
Speaker 1: and I know to say Lafayette, right, that's.

1721
01:32:50,520 --> 01:32:52,840
Speaker 2: Got to come down and visit and eat some of

1722
01:32:52,840 --> 01:32:53,639
Speaker 2: our good food too.

1723
01:32:54,200 --> 01:32:58,120
Speaker 1: There's always always Warick. This is terrific. Thanks for the.

1724
01:32:58,040 --> 01:33:01,080
Speaker 2: Time, Thanks so much. Check this was a place I appreciate.

1725
01:33:00,760 --> 01:33:13,439
Speaker 4: About it to Jest Top five Top top Jest, Top five.

1726
01:33:13,800 --> 01:33:16,200
Speaker 1: All right, this week I got a unique take on

1727
01:33:16,240 --> 01:33:18,400
Speaker 1: the top five list. I've been giving you my top

1728
01:33:18,439 --> 01:33:21,400
Speaker 1: five most Senate seats most likely to flip, your top

1729
01:33:21,400 --> 01:33:23,720
Speaker 1: five governor seats most likely to flip. I've done some

1730
01:33:24,280 --> 01:33:26,840
Speaker 1: historical top five lists, and I'm going to keep that going.

1731
01:33:28,600 --> 01:33:33,960
Speaker 1: But I thought i'd do a slightly different take on something,

1732
01:33:34,000 --> 01:33:37,800
Speaker 1: because which is the top five right now? My top

1733
01:33:37,840 --> 01:33:42,080
Speaker 1: five most vulnerable state wide incumbents. Because in some cases,

1734
01:33:42,400 --> 01:33:45,240
Speaker 1: you know, like the case in Louisiana or Rhode Island,

1735
01:33:45,240 --> 01:33:47,639
Speaker 1: where there's a state wide incumbent who's going to lose,

1736
01:33:48,400 --> 01:33:50,840
Speaker 1: but they're the same party is going to end up

1737
01:33:50,840 --> 01:33:52,800
Speaker 1: with the seats, so they don't. It doesn't make my

1738
01:33:52,880 --> 01:33:56,160
Speaker 1: top five most likely to flip, right, whether it's in

1739
01:33:56,200 --> 01:33:58,600
Speaker 1: the Senate races with Louisiana or the governor's races with

1740
01:33:58,720 --> 01:34:00,760
Speaker 1: Rhode Island. So That's why I thought we do a

1741
01:34:00,800 --> 01:34:02,719
Speaker 1: little bit of a take on that, and I wanted

1742
01:34:02,720 --> 01:34:04,960
Speaker 1: to give you right now who I think are the

1743
01:34:05,000 --> 01:34:09,360
Speaker 1: five most vulnerable statewide office holders who are more at

1744
01:34:09,360 --> 01:34:12,320
Speaker 1: this point, four of the five are more likely to

1745
01:34:12,439 --> 01:34:17,559
Speaker 1: lose than win given the situation that they're currently in

1746
01:34:17,760 --> 01:34:22,080
Speaker 1: literally for them underwater. One arguably has still got a

1747
01:34:22,120 --> 01:34:25,240
Speaker 1: slight advantage here and it is in my fifth slot.

1748
01:34:25,320 --> 01:34:27,759
Speaker 1: So number one on the list of most vulnerable incumbent

1749
01:34:29,520 --> 01:34:33,519
Speaker 1: is John Cornet, right, He's already being forced into a runoff.

1750
01:34:33,920 --> 01:34:37,439
Speaker 1: We will find out after Memorial Day whether that'll happen.

1751
01:34:37,479 --> 01:34:39,160
Speaker 1: A new pole came out a couple of days ago

1752
01:34:39,360 --> 01:34:42,280
Speaker 1: showed him down eight. He's sort of the forty one percent,

1753
01:34:42,439 --> 01:34:45,160
Speaker 1: you know, he basically the number he got in the primaries,

1754
01:34:45,160 --> 01:34:48,400
Speaker 1: the number he's sitting on the runoff. Paxton looks like

1755
01:34:48,479 --> 01:34:50,640
Speaker 1: he's got the you know, the more likely you know,

1756
01:34:50,720 --> 01:34:54,880
Speaker 1: this runoff is going to probably be lower turnout, and

1757
01:34:55,640 --> 01:35:01,519
Speaker 1: that is likely to advantage Paxton on this front. Trump

1758
01:35:01,600 --> 01:35:05,360
Speaker 1: is clearly not decided whether to endorse. I think in

1759
01:35:05,439 --> 01:35:09,719
Speaker 1: some ways he was probably he doesn't like being smoked

1760
01:35:09,720 --> 01:35:12,120
Speaker 1: out and the corn and people were trying corning in Thune.

1761
01:35:12,160 --> 01:35:14,360
Speaker 1: We're trying so hard to corner him into an endorsement

1762
01:35:14,520 --> 01:35:16,880
Speaker 1: within that first forty eight hours after the Texas primary,

1763
01:35:16,880 --> 01:35:19,960
Speaker 1: and when it didn't happen, then they knew others were

1764
01:35:19,960 --> 01:35:21,840
Speaker 1: going to get to him. And that's exactly what's happened.

1765
01:35:21,880 --> 01:35:23,479
Speaker 1: Others have gotten to Trump. So I think we're at

1766
01:35:23,479 --> 01:35:26,000
Speaker 1: the point now where I don't know if he gets

1767
01:35:26,160 --> 01:35:29,880
Speaker 1: if he gets comfortable endorsing. I just don't buy it.

1768
01:35:30,520 --> 01:35:33,880
Speaker 1: Not if poles continue to show corn And losing and

1769
01:35:34,040 --> 01:35:36,600
Speaker 1: he does not like tobacco loser. You know he does not.

1770
01:35:37,479 --> 01:35:40,040
Speaker 1: He will back somebody trailing in the polls if it's

1771
01:35:40,080 --> 01:35:42,840
Speaker 1: early in a primary and he thinks and he knows

1772
01:35:42,880 --> 01:35:47,559
Speaker 1: that it will flip. He doesn't like doing it late

1773
01:35:47,600 --> 01:35:49,960
Speaker 1: because he does it want to. He hates being with

1774
01:35:50,040 --> 01:35:52,559
Speaker 1: the losing candidate. And if he can't be convinced that

1775
01:35:52,600 --> 01:35:56,840
Speaker 1: Corny could win, I don't think that solo endorsement is coming.

1776
01:35:56,920 --> 01:35:59,920
Speaker 1: So Corn's in the one slot, in the number two slot,

1777
01:36:00,120 --> 01:36:04,080
Speaker 1: somebody that I haven't been mentioning. But it's like not

1778
01:36:04,160 --> 01:36:07,280
Speaker 1: even a close call. Dan McKee, who's the current governor

1779
01:36:07,280 --> 01:36:10,840
Speaker 1: of Rhode Island, he ended up replacing Gina Romundo and

1780
01:36:10,400 --> 01:36:14,400
Speaker 1: as governor back in twenty twenty two. He has just

1781
01:36:14,439 --> 01:36:18,760
Speaker 1: been in a hole for it feels like months. I mean,

1782
01:36:18,840 --> 01:36:21,200
Speaker 1: he's got a job approval rating that at times has

1783
01:36:21,240 --> 01:36:23,120
Speaker 1: been in the twenties. There was a primary University of

1784
01:36:23,120 --> 01:36:26,479
Speaker 1: new Hamship poll that had him at eighteen percent. He's

1785
01:36:26,600 --> 01:36:29,439
Speaker 1: likely his main rival is actually the niece of Chris

1786
01:36:29,479 --> 01:36:32,719
Speaker 1: Dodd for those of you keeping score at home, Helena Folks.

1787
01:36:32,720 --> 01:36:36,840
Speaker 1: He's a former executive from CVS the pharmacy, which is

1788
01:36:36,960 --> 01:36:40,519
Speaker 1: headquartered in Rhode Island, so they have that is not

1789
01:36:40,600 --> 01:36:43,280
Speaker 1: a net negative being a former CVS executive. Being a

1790
01:36:43,320 --> 01:36:46,880
Speaker 1: former CVS executive is mostly a net positive there. And

1791
01:36:46,920 --> 01:36:50,320
Speaker 1: look there's the you know Rhode Island, it's a very

1792
01:36:50,760 --> 01:36:54,360
Speaker 1: strong democratic state in general, so the primary is where

1793
01:36:54,360 --> 01:36:56,720
Speaker 1: all the action is. And you see these labor and

1794
01:36:56,760 --> 01:36:59,519
Speaker 1: business divides, like all the normal divides you normally see

1795
01:36:59,560 --> 01:37:02,000
Speaker 1: in a general election in Rhode Island always takes place

1796
01:37:02,040 --> 01:37:03,960
Speaker 1: in the primary, kind of like what we saw in Illinois,

1797
01:37:04,160 --> 01:37:07,559
Speaker 1: right where interest groups know that there's only it's a

1798
01:37:07,560 --> 01:37:11,080
Speaker 1: one party state. So you start to see that, well,

1799
01:37:11,160 --> 01:37:14,479
Speaker 1: Dan McKee is just it. You know, it's unusual for

1800
01:37:14,520 --> 01:37:17,240
Speaker 1: a governor to lose a primary, but it happens. It

1801
01:37:17,320 --> 01:37:22,200
Speaker 1: is happened. Frank Murkowski, Losa Murkowski's father basically over appointing

1802
01:37:22,240 --> 01:37:25,519
Speaker 1: his daughter the Senate seat, among other things, lost to

1803
01:37:25,600 --> 01:37:33,120
Speaker 1: primary back in twenty back in twenty oh six, and

1804
01:37:34,240 --> 01:37:37,880
Speaker 1: this woman named Sarah Palin ended up primary in him

1805
01:37:38,080 --> 01:37:42,840
Speaker 1: and she became She became governor, and I think kind

1806
01:37:42,840 --> 01:37:45,000
Speaker 1: of made a name for herself there for a few years.

1807
01:37:45,280 --> 01:37:47,479
Speaker 1: But this is why I wanted to do this top

1808
01:37:47,479 --> 01:37:49,280
Speaker 1: five list. I haven't been able to get this on

1809
01:37:49,320 --> 01:37:52,120
Speaker 1: the table. So Dan McKee number two. It is hard

1810
01:37:52,160 --> 01:37:54,479
Speaker 1: to see a path. You could make an argument that

1811
01:37:54,600 --> 01:37:57,679
Speaker 1: McKee should be in the one slot most likely to lose,

1812
01:37:58,000 --> 01:38:00,479
Speaker 1: Cornyn in the two. The only reason, and I'm putting

1813
01:38:00,479 --> 01:38:02,760
Speaker 1: corn in first is he's already been through round one

1814
01:38:02,800 --> 01:38:04,640
Speaker 1: of a primary and now the runoff. I mean it

1815
01:38:04,920 --> 01:38:08,160
Speaker 1: is sitting out there in theory because that primary is

1816
01:38:08,160 --> 01:38:11,000
Speaker 1: not till September, and so he's in theory, got five

1817
01:38:11,040 --> 01:38:13,720
Speaker 1: more months to fix himself. So just because he's got

1818
01:38:13,720 --> 01:38:17,920
Speaker 1: more time, he's number two. Corning's number one. In my

1819
01:38:18,040 --> 01:38:21,160
Speaker 1: third slot is Bill Cassidy, another one who's more likely

1820
01:38:21,200 --> 01:38:25,639
Speaker 1: to lose in a primary than in general. He appears

1821
01:38:25,680 --> 01:38:31,200
Speaker 1: slightly more competitive in a multi candidate primary as Julia Letlow,

1822
01:38:31,200 --> 01:38:38,360
Speaker 1: who is basically the unofficial official endorsed challenger of Cassidy

1823
01:38:38,360 --> 01:38:41,160
Speaker 1: in some form. Right, these are the getting let Low in.

1824
01:38:41,479 --> 01:38:44,120
Speaker 1: This is where Trump wants to be. It's likely who

1825
01:38:44,160 --> 01:38:46,439
Speaker 1: he's going to end up supporting. We'll see how heavily

1826
01:38:46,479 --> 01:38:49,599
Speaker 1: he comes in. But there are multiple candidates in the race,

1827
01:38:49,640 --> 01:38:52,080
Speaker 1: and the more crowded this primary is, in theory, the

1828
01:38:52,120 --> 01:38:53,720
Speaker 1: better for Cassidy. But it would end up in a

1829
01:38:53,760 --> 01:38:56,320
Speaker 1: runoff as well. I mean they remember the state of

1830
01:38:56,360 --> 01:39:00,000
Speaker 1: Louisiana changed its rules basically just so that Bill Cassidy

1831
01:39:00,600 --> 01:39:05,040
Speaker 1: could be primary because of his impeachment vote pure and simple, right,

1832
01:39:05,600 --> 01:39:08,679
Speaker 1: Louisiana used to be a jungle primary state, all parties

1833
01:39:08,680 --> 01:39:11,840
Speaker 1: on one ballot. If nobody gets fifty, top two face off. Well,

1834
01:39:11,880 --> 01:39:15,960
Speaker 1: the fear this would have been Cassidy's opportunity. He would have.

1835
01:39:16,560 --> 01:39:20,360
Speaker 1: Cassidy would be winning reelection under the ole the rules

1836
01:39:21,120 --> 01:39:25,080
Speaker 1: of Louisiana's election system that they had the first time

1837
01:39:25,120 --> 01:39:28,479
Speaker 1: he ran. I promise you there is, and he would

1838
01:39:28,560 --> 01:39:33,840
Speaker 1: probably be running a different race. Now, maybe there Isn't

1839
01:39:34,080 --> 01:39:37,720
Speaker 1: you know, maybe he's somehow done. He has figured out

1840
01:39:37,760 --> 01:39:41,360
Speaker 1: how to alienate the left over with his playing footsie

1841
01:39:41,360 --> 01:39:45,799
Speaker 1: with RFK Junior and the right by voting to convict

1842
01:39:45,800 --> 01:39:48,000
Speaker 1: Donald Trump, and maybe there's no coming back from that,

1843
01:39:48,400 --> 01:39:51,599
Speaker 1: and because of that squeeze, there really isn't there Isn't

1844
01:39:51,640 --> 01:39:53,640
Speaker 1: you know, he's so alienated both that nobody wants to

1845
01:39:53,640 --> 01:39:57,080
Speaker 1: see him succeed either way. He's easily number three on

1846
01:39:57,120 --> 01:40:00,479
Speaker 1: the list, but he he's not dead yet. And I

1847
01:40:00,600 --> 01:40:05,479
Speaker 1: just think that that is you know, it is you know,

1848
01:40:05,920 --> 01:40:08,320
Speaker 1: I keep waiting, you know, I just don't know if

1849
01:40:08,320 --> 01:40:12,840
Speaker 1: he ends up benefiting when Bobby Kennedy messes up because

1850
01:40:12,880 --> 01:40:14,439
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, even though he's been

1851
01:40:14,560 --> 01:40:18,040
Speaker 1: a critic now of what Kennedy's doing, he's still the

1852
01:40:18,080 --> 01:40:22,080
Speaker 1: guy that got Kennedy into that job. And we kind

1853
01:40:22,080 --> 01:40:24,280
Speaker 1: of and I think we all know why he did it.

1854
01:40:24,360 --> 01:40:26,920
Speaker 1: He thought this is if he thought, this is what

1855
01:40:26,960 --> 01:40:29,640
Speaker 1: it would take to get Trump's endorsement. And we know

1856
01:40:29,720 --> 01:40:31,639
Speaker 1: what the Trump White House did, well, they said, well,

1857
01:40:31,800 --> 01:40:35,640
Speaker 1: certainly it will help. He was never going to he

1858
01:40:35,800 --> 01:40:39,479
Speaker 1: was never going to flip. He was never going to

1859
01:40:39,479 --> 01:40:43,880
Speaker 1: do it. That's something I don't know why Cassidy misread

1860
01:40:43,960 --> 01:40:49,360
Speaker 1: that situation Number four on the list, Susan Collins. She

1861
01:40:49,479 --> 01:40:51,880
Speaker 1: trails both Mills and Platner and polling, and I've seen

1862
01:40:52,720 --> 01:40:55,240
Speaker 1: she is now benefiting that Mills and Platner are going

1863
01:40:55,280 --> 01:40:57,439
Speaker 1: after each other. Mills is up with another attack ad

1864
01:40:57,479 --> 01:41:00,120
Speaker 1: on Platner. And we're going to find out, right, how

1865
01:41:00,280 --> 01:41:04,679
Speaker 1: much do voters in Maine care about this stuff? You know,

1866
01:41:04,880 --> 01:41:08,879
Speaker 1: how powerful is the Donald Trump effect on Democratic primary voters?

1867
01:41:09,120 --> 01:41:13,280
Speaker 1: We already know that Republican primary voters that you know,

1868
01:41:13,360 --> 01:41:16,040
Speaker 1: the personal character issues just are not what they used

1869
01:41:16,040 --> 01:41:21,000
Speaker 1: to be, not at all. Right, Donald Trump is sort of,

1870
01:41:21,720 --> 01:41:26,559
Speaker 1: you know, is sort of almost like pardoned anybody running

1871
01:41:26,600 --> 01:41:31,400
Speaker 1: for office on the Republican side on character. And there's

1872
01:41:31,439 --> 01:41:34,280
Speaker 1: clear a lot of Democrats think, Hey, they shouldn't be

1873
01:41:34,400 --> 01:41:39,360
Speaker 1: as picky either. I think this is generational. I think

1874
01:41:39,400 --> 01:41:42,400
Speaker 1: those that have grown up mostly living online know that

1875
01:41:43,280 --> 01:41:45,040
Speaker 1: a lot of dumb stuff gets said. So I think

1876
01:41:45,080 --> 01:41:46,760
Speaker 1: they're going to be a younger voter is going to

1877
01:41:46,800 --> 01:41:49,599
Speaker 1: be more forgiving for what Platner did, and an older

1878
01:41:49,680 --> 01:41:53,559
Speaker 1: voter is going to be less forgiving. Right, And in Maine,

1879
01:41:53,560 --> 01:41:56,759
Speaker 1: Maine is the oldest state, oldest electorate in the country,

1880
01:41:56,920 --> 01:42:00,559
Speaker 1: the single oldest electorate in the country. So I do

1881
01:42:00,640 --> 01:42:04,160
Speaker 1: think we under rate Mills's chance to get to win

1882
01:42:04,200 --> 01:42:07,840
Speaker 1: this primary this way and death by a thousand cuts,

1883
01:42:08,120 --> 01:42:10,759
Speaker 1: then I think, you know, I know, the energy feels

1884
01:42:10,800 --> 01:42:16,720
Speaker 1: like it's with Platner. What don't underestimate sort of the

1885
01:42:16,800 --> 01:42:20,320
Speaker 1: main electorate, which is again not a young electorate. Just

1886
01:42:20,360 --> 01:42:22,800
Speaker 1: something to think about there. As for Susan Collins, I

1887
01:42:22,840 --> 01:42:27,360
Speaker 1: think she's you know, I think she's in. I don't

1888
01:42:27,720 --> 01:42:30,240
Speaker 1: see a way out of this for her because independence

1889
01:42:30,280 --> 01:42:32,439
Speaker 1: have turned on her and I don't know if there's

1890
01:42:32,439 --> 01:42:34,320
Speaker 1: going to be any moment where she can show her

1891
01:42:34,320 --> 01:42:37,920
Speaker 1: independence again. And if anything, it's you know, she's had

1892
01:42:37,920 --> 01:42:42,680
Speaker 1: those opportunities and she's chosen partisanship over over independence. Right.

1893
01:42:42,800 --> 01:42:45,320
Speaker 1: If you think about Lisa murkowskians in Collins, who both

1894
01:42:45,600 --> 01:42:51,320
Speaker 1: essentially have a similar electorate, you know, cranky independence, that's

1895
01:42:51,320 --> 01:42:54,840
Speaker 1: the Alaska that's the Alaska voter arguably, and that's the

1896
01:42:54,880 --> 01:43:02,439
Speaker 1: main voter. Collins tries to always find herself on the

1897
01:43:02,479 --> 01:43:07,800
Speaker 1: side of Republicans. Murkowski always seems more likely to find

1898
01:43:07,800 --> 01:43:10,960
Speaker 1: her side herself on the side of not being there

1899
01:43:10,960 --> 01:43:14,040
Speaker 1: with the Republicans being more independent or sometimes voting against them.

1900
01:43:14,439 --> 01:43:20,040
Speaker 1: And I think Murkowski's displayed independence more credibly than Collins has.

1901
01:43:20,479 --> 01:43:23,000
Speaker 1: And that's why I think this time it's hard. So

1902
01:43:23,000 --> 01:43:24,640
Speaker 1: when I say the first four on my list are

1903
01:43:24,680 --> 01:43:28,800
Speaker 1: all underwater, all trailing at the moment, Corny and Key

1904
01:43:29,080 --> 01:43:31,519
Speaker 1: Cassidy Colins, that is true. Number five on the list

1905
01:43:31,600 --> 01:43:34,320
Speaker 1: is somebody who's not trailing. And I have to say,

1906
01:43:34,400 --> 01:43:37,160
Speaker 1: here are the people I had to choose from who

1907
01:43:37,160 --> 01:43:40,400
Speaker 1: I think are all vulnerable incumbents At the moment. You

1908
01:43:40,439 --> 01:43:43,640
Speaker 1: have the governor of Nevada, Joe Lombardo, being a Republican

1909
01:43:43,640 --> 01:43:46,880
Speaker 1: and a dem leaning state. You know, he knocked off

1910
01:43:47,160 --> 01:43:50,240
Speaker 1: a one term incumbent. He's going to be facing a

1911
01:43:50,240 --> 01:43:53,160
Speaker 1: wealth on the challenger. Nevada is as swinging of a

1912
01:43:53,200 --> 01:43:56,760
Speaker 1: state as there is. I think he's holding up as

1913
01:43:56,760 --> 01:43:59,880
Speaker 1: well as you could under the circumstances, but he is

1914
01:44:01,000 --> 01:44:03,479
Speaker 1: the wind is decidedly blowing against him. And the Governor

1915
01:44:03,520 --> 01:44:06,040
Speaker 1: Arizona in this case, I think she's got the wind

1916
01:44:06,360 --> 01:44:10,400
Speaker 1: at her back a little bit Katie Hobbs, but and

1917
01:44:10,520 --> 01:44:12,439
Speaker 1: she you know, if Andy Biggs is the nominee, I

1918
01:44:12,479 --> 01:44:16,120
Speaker 1: think she's in better shape than if Schwikert. David Schwikert

1919
01:44:16,120 --> 01:44:18,960
Speaker 1: is the nominee there, So there, that's a nominee for

1920
01:44:18,960 --> 01:44:23,040
Speaker 1: the fifth slot. See Katie Hobbs, Joe Lombardo, Dan Slivon Alaska,

1921
01:44:24,960 --> 01:44:30,519
Speaker 1: John Ossoff and Georgia and Pete Ricketts. And I have

1922
01:44:30,560 --> 01:44:33,519
Speaker 1: to tell you right now, at the moment, I think

1923
01:44:33,560 --> 01:44:36,640
Speaker 1: that the incumbent and then that right now is in

1924
01:44:36,680 --> 01:44:39,400
Speaker 1: the toughest shape. Who has who has the most well

1925
01:44:39,439 --> 01:44:44,080
Speaker 1: formed challenger is Pete Rickets in Nebraska. Look, he's still favorite,

1926
01:44:44,120 --> 01:44:50,559
Speaker 1: It's still Nebraska. But man, it is fascinating to watch

1927
01:44:51,920 --> 01:44:55,360
Speaker 1: how well how resilient Osborne is. He's already taken a

1928
01:44:55,360 --> 01:44:58,479
Speaker 1: bunch of incoming claiming he's a Democrat in independent clothing

1929
01:44:59,360 --> 01:45:03,400
Speaker 1: and it has a really budget his numbers. So, you know,

1930
01:45:03,520 --> 01:45:05,639
Speaker 1: while I'm still you know, let's see he can get

1931
01:45:05,680 --> 01:45:08,240
Speaker 1: to fifty. I think the path to forty seven is

1932
01:45:08,600 --> 01:45:11,200
Speaker 1: pretty clear for him, somewhere between forty five and forty seven.

1933
01:45:11,640 --> 01:45:16,759
Speaker 1: But can he get to fifty? But right now, right now,

1934
01:45:17,080 --> 01:45:19,320
Speaker 1: I think Ricketts more so than Sulomon, more so than

1935
01:45:19,400 --> 01:45:23,639
Speaker 1: John Houston in Ohio, another candidate for my incumbent list here,

1936
01:45:25,400 --> 01:45:27,400
Speaker 1: and you could make a strong case, although I'd argue

1937
01:45:27,479 --> 01:45:29,519
Speaker 1: John Houston's an appointed so he doesn't count as a

1938
01:45:29,520 --> 01:45:34,200
Speaker 1: real incumbent in that front. So my fifth slot a

1939
01:45:34,240 --> 01:45:37,920
Speaker 1: little bit of a Huskers surprise, just like they've been

1940
01:45:38,000 --> 01:45:40,200
Speaker 1: to me. I know they're a four seed, but I

1941
01:45:40,240 --> 01:45:42,400
Speaker 1: still think of Nebraska basketball as a bit of a

1942
01:45:42,479 --> 01:45:47,240
Speaker 1: dark horse here, which translation means I'm probably betting on Iowa.

1943
01:45:49,120 --> 01:45:51,679
Speaker 1: But there you go. There's the top five most vulnerable

1944
01:45:52,040 --> 01:45:57,840
Speaker 1: statewide incumbents in the country. John Cornett, Dan McKee, Bill Cassidy,

1945
01:45:58,760 --> 01:46:02,800
Speaker 1: Susan Collins, and Pete Rippons. We'll love date the list

1946
01:46:02,840 --> 01:46:03,799
Speaker 1: again next month.

1947
01:46:08,640 --> 01:46:09,400
Speaker 2: Ask Chuck.

1948
01:46:12,479 --> 01:46:17,360
Speaker 1: All right, let's do a little last chuck, cue the music. Hey,

1949
01:46:17,400 --> 01:46:19,439
Speaker 1: this has been from Colorado. I saw recently that John

1950
01:46:19,479 --> 01:46:22,160
Speaker 1: Hickenlooper dropped out of the caucus assembly process because he

1951
01:46:22,240 --> 01:46:23,920
Speaker 1: was not getting the support that he needed to show

1952
01:46:23,960 --> 01:46:26,160
Speaker 1: up on the primary ballot. I also saw some polling

1953
01:46:26,200 --> 01:46:28,640
Speaker 1: that he is trailing fairly significant the primary right now

1954
01:46:28,680 --> 01:46:31,360
Speaker 1: to his challenger, Julie Gonzalez. If he loses, he would

1955
01:46:31,360 --> 01:46:33,120
Speaker 1: be the third single term Senator in a row in

1956
01:46:33,160 --> 01:46:35,559
Speaker 1: the Class two Senate seat from Colorado. How about that?

1957
01:46:35,920 --> 01:46:37,960
Speaker 1: I guess you're right that has been the case. Have

1958
01:46:38,040 --> 01:46:40,719
Speaker 1: there been other cases where this has happened in the Senate?

1959
01:46:40,760 --> 01:46:46,160
Speaker 1: Thanks Ben? Actually, yes, Ben, here's your answer, because it

1960
01:46:46,280 --> 01:46:49,400
Speaker 1: is the So I guess it would say, I love

1961
01:46:49,439 --> 01:46:52,320
Speaker 1: that you identified it as Class two. This would be

1962
01:46:52,360 --> 01:46:58,040
Speaker 1: the Class three seat in North Carolina. Okay, So let

1963
01:46:58,080 --> 01:47:01,800
Speaker 1: me give you this this run of one term senators.

1964
01:47:04,479 --> 01:47:08,240
Speaker 1: So you had Robert Morgan elected in seventy four, lost

1965
01:47:08,280 --> 01:47:11,840
Speaker 1: reelection in eighty John East elected in eighty he ends

1966
01:47:11,920 --> 01:47:17,200
Speaker 1: up dying, it's vacant, there's an appointment in Broyhill. Then

1967
01:47:17,240 --> 01:47:20,640
Speaker 1: you have in eighty six, Terry Sandford is a Democrat,

1968
01:47:20,720 --> 01:47:24,639
Speaker 1: is elected, he's a one termer. Locke Faircloth is elected

1969
01:47:24,680 --> 01:47:28,439
Speaker 1: in ninety two, defeats him, defeats Terry Stanford, he's a

1970
01:47:28,439 --> 01:47:32,759
Speaker 1: one termer. He loses to John Edwards. John Edwards decides

1971
01:47:32,840 --> 01:47:36,080
Speaker 1: not to seek reelection, and then that's when Richard Berwin's

1972
01:47:36,160 --> 01:47:38,680
Speaker 1: that seat in two thousand and four. And that was

1973
01:47:38,720 --> 01:47:41,840
Speaker 1: two terms. So here we have Edwards one term, Faircloth

1974
01:47:41,920 --> 01:47:44,320
Speaker 1: one term, Sanford one term. So there's your three in

1975
01:47:44,320 --> 01:47:46,960
Speaker 1: a row. Really, you could argue four in a row

1976
01:47:47,040 --> 01:47:50,080
Speaker 1: because East got one term Morgan five in a row,

1977
01:47:50,120 --> 01:47:56,639
Speaker 1: so basically after sam Irvin, right, sam Irvin resigns early

1978
01:47:56,680 --> 01:48:01,559
Speaker 1: in his seat. After sam Irvin, you know, uh, and

1979
01:48:01,960 --> 01:48:05,040
Speaker 1: you know, doing the Watergate hearings, that North Carolina Class

1980
01:48:05,040 --> 01:48:10,640
Speaker 1: three seat had five straight one term senators. Some of

1981
01:48:10,680 --> 01:48:13,200
Speaker 1: them lost reelections, some of them chose not to run,

1982
01:48:13,439 --> 01:48:18,640
Speaker 1: one died, so yet a death presidential candidacy, and and

1983
01:48:18,760 --> 01:48:24,120
Speaker 1: incumbents losing twice. What a fun question. But like I said,

1984
01:48:24,640 --> 01:48:27,680
Speaker 1: I'm sure there are more than that. But if I

1985
01:48:27,800 --> 01:48:32,040
Speaker 1: found a five spot for you, I think and look,

1986
01:48:32,240 --> 01:48:34,640
Speaker 1: you know, for folks may not realize, Colorado has got

1987
01:48:34,640 --> 01:48:37,960
Speaker 1: an interesting little system you can if you go through

1988
01:48:37,960 --> 01:48:40,599
Speaker 1: the cock you can go through the essentially the state

1989
01:48:40,640 --> 01:48:42,920
Speaker 1: convention process, and I'm not going to get into the

1990
01:48:42,960 --> 01:48:47,800
Speaker 1: details here, where you can qualify for a primary for

1991
01:48:47,920 --> 01:48:51,760
Speaker 1: the primary ballot without having to do petition signatures. You

1992
01:48:51,800 --> 01:48:56,280
Speaker 1: can just get it and you can try to get

1993
01:48:56,280 --> 01:48:59,639
Speaker 1: the endorsement. But the obviously, the party apparatus these days

1994
01:48:59,640 --> 01:49:03,479
Speaker 1: are dominated by the base voters right base progressives with

1995
01:49:03,560 --> 01:49:06,600
Speaker 1: Democrats based mago for Republicans. So if you're sort of

1996
01:49:06,600 --> 01:49:08,760
Speaker 1: a center left or a center right politician, you're not

1997
01:49:08,800 --> 01:49:10,920
Speaker 1: going to be able to win an endorsement from your

1998
01:49:10,960 --> 01:49:13,320
Speaker 1: state conventions these days, no matter where you are, particularly

1999
01:49:13,320 --> 01:49:15,720
Speaker 1: in a place like Colorado. So I understand why he's

2000
01:49:15,760 --> 01:49:18,120
Speaker 1: going to try to go in primary his way. Here,

2001
01:49:18,720 --> 01:49:21,040
Speaker 1: my guess is, once he starts spending money, he's going

2002
01:49:21,120 --> 01:49:26,120
Speaker 1: to be quote unquote okay, especially because you'll you should

2003
01:49:26,120 --> 01:49:28,479
Speaker 1: expect to see a very large primary turnout. There's an

2004
01:49:28,479 --> 01:49:30,960
Speaker 1: open seat for Governor Michael Bennett, the other senator from

2005
01:49:30,960 --> 01:49:35,479
Speaker 1: the state is in the sitting attorney general or running

2006
01:49:35,479 --> 01:49:37,760
Speaker 1: against each other in the primary, So there should be

2007
01:49:37,800 --> 01:49:40,479
Speaker 1: a large turnout, and I imagine Hickenloopers should be okay

2008
01:49:40,520 --> 01:49:42,519
Speaker 1: in a large turnout. I don't know what the fireable

2009
01:49:42,560 --> 01:49:45,280
Speaker 1: offense is, and if the fireable offense is he's not

2010
01:49:45,320 --> 01:49:49,040
Speaker 1: progressive enough. I don't know if there's enough enough voters

2011
01:49:49,040 --> 01:49:51,160
Speaker 1: to knock him off. But we shall see, you know,

2012
01:49:51,320 --> 01:49:55,800
Speaker 1: he certainly I've said this before. I'd rather I think

2013
01:49:56,720 --> 01:49:58,760
Speaker 1: I think in being an incumbent on the ballot that's

2014
01:49:58,800 --> 01:50:02,679
Speaker 1: vulnerable this year, hearts up. Obviously, some vulnerabilities are greater

2015
01:50:02,720 --> 01:50:05,120
Speaker 1: than others, but I would keep that in mind. Next question,

2016
01:50:05,760 --> 01:50:10,000
Speaker 1: Matt Minneapolis Hey as a horse race election Guy. Elections, Guy,

2017
01:50:10,120 --> 01:50:12,760
Speaker 1: I've really been enjoying the primary night live streams. Nice.

2018
01:50:12,800 --> 01:50:15,200
Speaker 1: Please keep them coming. We will. Next one is going

2019
01:50:15,280 --> 01:50:18,160
Speaker 1: to be for the Virginia special referendum, by the way,

2020
01:50:18,640 --> 01:50:21,600
Speaker 1: in on April twenty first. Then we'll do all the

2021
01:50:21,640 --> 01:50:24,240
Speaker 1: May primaries. May's going to be a huge primary month,

2022
01:50:24,320 --> 01:50:27,160
Speaker 1: so mark your calendars. Recently, you said that if Antonin

2023
01:50:27,520 --> 01:50:29,719
Speaker 1: Scalia had lived, Trump wouldn't have been elected, which seems

2024
01:50:29,720 --> 01:50:31,760
Speaker 1: to apply. Hillary would have won in twenty sixteen, But

2025
01:50:31,840 --> 01:50:34,600
Speaker 1: you also said the year it said the year you

2026
01:50:34,720 --> 01:50:36,800
Speaker 1: thought she could have won was four. I do believe that.

2027
01:50:36,840 --> 01:50:38,920
Speaker 1: Can you explain what you meant? Also, with Niel money

2028
01:50:38,920 --> 01:50:41,639
Speaker 1: and the transfer portal changing college basketball, do you think

2029
01:50:41,680 --> 01:50:44,120
Speaker 1: limiting players to one transfer could help fix some of

2030
01:50:44,120 --> 01:50:48,520
Speaker 1: the current issues and restore more team continuity? Matt in Minneapolis,

2031
01:50:49,000 --> 01:50:53,000
Speaker 1: go gopherst all right, you got three questions here, so yes,

2032
01:50:53,240 --> 01:50:56,080
Speaker 1: I think ultimately, I do believe Hillary Clinton's best shot

2033
01:50:56,080 --> 01:50:58,000
Speaker 1: at the presidency was actually two thousand and four, the

2034
01:50:58,080 --> 01:51:01,720
Speaker 1: year she didn't run, you know, not sixteen. What do

2035
01:51:01,800 --> 01:51:03,559
Speaker 1: I mean? Why do I say, oh, four more than

2036
01:51:03,560 --> 01:51:05,800
Speaker 1: any others? And I did this as a what if

2037
01:51:05,880 --> 01:51:09,799
Speaker 1: exercised by the way alternative history, she was the front runner.

2038
01:51:09,880 --> 01:51:16,799
Speaker 1: She had very high favorable ratings at the time, probably

2039
01:51:16,920 --> 01:51:22,240
Speaker 1: was higher favorable ratings than John Carrey did at the

2040
01:51:22,240 --> 01:51:25,080
Speaker 1: time or even elg War. But that would happen with Hillary,

2041
01:51:25,200 --> 01:51:26,759
Speaker 1: right like you know, when she was in the middle

2042
01:51:26,760 --> 01:51:29,599
Speaker 1: of a political campaign, then all the negatives would would

2043
01:51:30,040 --> 01:51:34,000
Speaker 1: negative negativity would come and it would lower her numbers.

2044
01:51:34,080 --> 01:51:38,080
Speaker 1: But still, look, we were in the middle of a

2045
01:51:38,120 --> 01:51:43,360
Speaker 1: war right after nine to eleven. I just think that

2046
01:51:44,760 --> 01:51:50,439
Speaker 1: being the former first lady with another president sort of

2047
01:51:50,520 --> 01:51:54,160
Speaker 1: with a former president as the first gentleman would have

2048
01:51:54,320 --> 01:51:57,240
Speaker 1: probably been enough to convince that slice of voter who

2049
01:51:57,280 --> 01:51:59,800
Speaker 1: didn't want to change horses in midstream during a war.

2050
01:52:00,240 --> 01:52:02,880
Speaker 1: And we were at ward twenty oh four. So that's

2051
01:52:02,880 --> 01:52:05,080
Speaker 1: why I believe the only Democrat that could have won

2052
01:52:06,479 --> 01:52:09,679
Speaker 1: maybe Al Gore as a sitting by former sitting vice president,

2053
01:52:09,760 --> 01:52:12,240
Speaker 1: former vice president, but I actually think that would have

2054
01:52:12,280 --> 01:52:13,639
Speaker 1: been the moment. I think Hillary would have been seen

2055
01:52:13,680 --> 01:52:16,760
Speaker 1: as hawkish enough, and frankly, those voters that might be

2056
01:52:16,800 --> 01:52:19,439
Speaker 1: a little hesitant about electing a woman president might have

2057
01:52:19,439 --> 01:52:21,479
Speaker 1: been reassured by the fact that there's a former president

2058
01:52:21,520 --> 01:52:23,720
Speaker 1: who she happened to be married to. I just think

2059
01:52:23,760 --> 01:52:27,719
Speaker 1: when you're changing, if you're asking voters to change commander

2060
01:52:27,760 --> 01:52:31,080
Speaker 1: in chiefs, they're going to want more familiarity. And that's

2061
01:52:31,120 --> 01:52:33,439
Speaker 1: a case where I think, this is where my point is,

2062
01:52:33,520 --> 01:52:36,400
Speaker 1: this is where her her being tied to a former

2063
01:52:36,439 --> 01:52:39,599
Speaker 1: president was an asset, and I think an four would

2064
01:52:39,600 --> 01:52:41,160
Speaker 1: have the only time was an asset. Right, it was

2065
01:52:41,200 --> 01:52:44,320
Speaker 1: a liability no. Eight because it didn't signify change, and

2066
01:52:44,320 --> 01:52:48,120
Speaker 1: by sixteen it was a liability frankly for the same reason. Now, yes,

2067
01:52:48,240 --> 01:52:50,559
Speaker 1: do I think that she ends up winning. I think

2068
01:52:50,560 --> 01:52:52,240
Speaker 1: she's only a one term or if she doesn't sixteen.

2069
01:52:52,280 --> 01:52:55,040
Speaker 1: If Scalia lives, I do because I do think Trump

2070
01:52:55,120 --> 01:52:57,680
Speaker 1: had been disqualified and I think the only thing that

2071
01:52:57,720 --> 01:53:01,400
Speaker 1: brought many Republicans back to hold their no and instead

2072
01:53:01,400 --> 01:53:03,960
Speaker 1: of voting Gary Johnson as a as a protest vote,

2073
01:53:04,040 --> 01:53:05,880
Speaker 1: but went ahead and vote to Trump was the fact

2074
01:53:05,920 --> 01:53:08,720
Speaker 1: that there was an open seat that was going to

2075
01:53:08,840 --> 01:53:12,960
Speaker 1: be that was that could chang literally change ideological hands

2076
01:53:12,960 --> 01:53:16,080
Speaker 1: depending on the election of the president. And I do

2077
01:53:16,120 --> 01:53:18,280
Speaker 1: not I think if Scalia is alive, I do not think.

2078
01:53:18,960 --> 01:53:21,320
Speaker 1: I think you have more of those events those people

2079
01:53:21,360 --> 01:53:23,400
Speaker 1: that didn't like this character, who weren't ready to come

2080
01:53:23,439 --> 01:53:26,240
Speaker 1: aboard the Trump train probably end up in the Gary

2081
01:53:26,280 --> 01:53:28,720
Speaker 1: Johnson column, and Gary Johnson probably ends up closer to

2082
01:53:28,760 --> 01:53:32,200
Speaker 1: ten percent, which would have been the decisive figure for

2083
01:53:32,360 --> 01:53:35,120
Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton. So there's my explanation on that. All right,

2084
01:53:35,160 --> 01:53:39,000
Speaker 1: let me take one more question here, because I went

2085
01:53:39,040 --> 01:53:43,280
Speaker 1: long on both of those. This comes from Patrick in

2086
01:53:43,280 --> 01:53:45,080
Speaker 1: Los Angeles. He goes the talk of I five and

2087
01:53:45,080 --> 01:53:47,639
Speaker 1: I ninety five and political party messaging made me think

2088
01:53:48,000 --> 01:53:50,800
Speaker 1: of one of my favorite pop culture quotes that unintentionally

2089
01:53:50,840 --> 01:53:54,160
Speaker 1: sums up a lot of American politics. You see Homer

2090
01:53:54,760 --> 01:53:57,800
Speaker 1: meaning Homer Simpson. You see Homer. There's a place between

2091
01:53:57,840 --> 01:54:00,720
Speaker 1: New York and Los Angeles. We call it America. Do

2092
01:54:00,800 --> 01:54:03,200
Speaker 1: you have any pop culture quotes or moments that unintentionally

2093
01:54:03,280 --> 01:54:05,920
Speaker 1: carry weight politically, Patrick in Los Angeles, I'll tell you

2094
01:54:06,000 --> 01:54:08,000
Speaker 1: one that I use all the time. I always say

2095
01:54:08,920 --> 01:54:12,639
Speaker 1: my favorite political pundit is Buffalo Springfield, which of course

2096
01:54:12,720 --> 01:54:15,960
Speaker 1: is a group, not an individual, but some people think

2097
01:54:16,000 --> 01:54:18,920
Speaker 1: it Buffalo Springfield sounds like an individual. But there's a

2098
01:54:19,400 --> 01:54:23,240
Speaker 1: there's a great Buffalo Springfield song. So the song title

2099
01:54:23,760 --> 01:54:27,519
Speaker 1: this is a Buffalo Springfield song. The song title is

2100
01:54:27,560 --> 01:54:29,719
Speaker 1: for what it's worth it was written by Steven Stills,

2101
01:54:29,840 --> 01:54:32,520
Speaker 1: but it's but I always say, you know, I think

2102
01:54:32,560 --> 01:54:36,600
Speaker 1: the most important, the smartest political pundit we've ever had

2103
01:54:37,120 --> 01:54:42,320
Speaker 1: in handicapping elections is Buffalo Springfield because and this goes back,

2104
01:54:42,360 --> 01:54:44,280
Speaker 1: and I'll tell you the origin of why I became

2105
01:54:44,320 --> 01:54:48,520
Speaker 1: obsessed with this quote. The quote goes, there's something happening here.

2106
01:54:48,640 --> 01:54:53,440
Speaker 1: What it is ain't exactly clear, and it's that first half. Now,

2107
01:54:53,440 --> 01:54:55,520
Speaker 1: the rest of the stanza goes, there's a man with

2108
01:54:55,560 --> 01:54:57,960
Speaker 1: a gun over there telling me I gotta beware, so

2109
01:54:58,200 --> 01:55:00,880
Speaker 1: I leave the gun line out, But there's something happening

2110
01:55:00,920 --> 01:55:03,560
Speaker 1: here and what it is ain't exactly clear. It is

2111
01:55:03,760 --> 01:55:07,640
Speaker 1: my favorite cop out political punditry quote. And the first

2112
01:55:07,680 --> 01:55:11,000
Speaker 1: person I ever saw use it was actually Stan Greenberg.

2113
01:55:11,200 --> 01:55:15,040
Speaker 1: He was Bill Clinton's polster in ninety two. We made

2114
01:55:15,040 --> 01:55:17,240
Speaker 1: it our quote of the day in the Hotline, and

2115
01:55:17,400 --> 01:55:19,440
Speaker 1: it was just I just thought it was the funniest

2116
01:55:19,440 --> 01:55:23,000
Speaker 1: thing ever because it was like, it was clear to

2117
01:55:23,040 --> 01:55:26,160
Speaker 1: me that the reporter who was quoting Greenberg thought they

2118
01:55:26,160 --> 01:55:28,960
Speaker 1: were taking a serious quote from the polster, going well,

2119
01:55:29,000 --> 01:55:30,840
Speaker 1: you know, there's something happening out here, but what it

2120
01:55:30,880 --> 01:55:34,200
Speaker 1: is it ain't exactly clear. Stanton didn't say he was

2121
01:55:34,320 --> 01:55:37,400
Speaker 1: quoting somebody, so the reporter was sort of oblivious to

2122
01:55:37,440 --> 01:55:40,840
Speaker 1: the fact that he was doing a lyric, you know,

2123
01:55:41,160 --> 01:55:44,600
Speaker 1: And so I've always just thought, I mean, you know,

2124
01:55:45,720 --> 01:55:48,760
Speaker 1: when you're a political reporter, the weirdest things crack you up,

2125
01:55:48,840 --> 01:55:50,640
Speaker 1: and this one always cracked me up. So it's always

2126
01:55:50,680 --> 01:55:53,720
Speaker 1: actually been my go to Hey whenever I you know,

2127
01:55:54,280 --> 01:55:56,400
Speaker 1: if I've been asked for the empteenth time, which way

2128
01:55:56,440 --> 01:55:58,760
Speaker 1: are things going? Ye know, what did this poll mean?

2129
01:55:58,920 --> 01:55:59,240
Speaker 4: Well?

2130
01:56:00,120 --> 01:56:03,200
Speaker 1: You know, you know Leicester, there's something happening out of here,

2131
01:56:03,760 --> 01:56:07,760
Speaker 1: and what it is ain't exactly clear. You gotta stop. Hey,

2132
01:56:08,000 --> 01:56:12,240
Speaker 1: what's that anyway? So with that, I will leave you here.

2133
01:56:12,280 --> 01:56:14,360
Speaker 1: I've got a real great rant to come on the

2134
01:56:14,400 --> 01:56:18,080
Speaker 1: Wizards and Nationals. I do believe, and I challenge you,

2135
01:56:18,160 --> 01:56:22,240
Speaker 1: my listeners, to prove me wrong. Of all the form.

2136
01:56:22,320 --> 01:56:29,839
Speaker 1: If you want to count NHL as your fourth major sport, NFL, NBA, MLB,

2137
01:56:30,080 --> 01:56:35,200
Speaker 1: and NHL, is there a four major sports city in

2138
01:56:35,360 --> 01:56:40,920
Speaker 1: worst shape than right here in Washington. I don't think

2139
01:56:40,960 --> 01:56:44,440
Speaker 1: there is another four sport major city, major league city

2140
01:56:45,600 --> 01:56:48,760
Speaker 1: who doesn't have at least one team. Can actually contending

2141
01:56:48,800 --> 01:56:51,640
Speaker 1: for a title. The best we got is sort of

2142
01:56:51,640 --> 01:56:54,920
Speaker 1: the Caps and OV who you just had and can

2143
01:56:54,920 --> 01:56:57,160
Speaker 1: never count them out, and who knows, right hockey playoffs,

2144
01:56:57,240 --> 01:57:00,760
Speaker 1: anything can happen. But let's be honest, it's kind of

2145
01:57:00,760 --> 01:57:05,160
Speaker 1: weak tea, right, It's aging. You know, it's a mess here.

2146
01:57:06,120 --> 01:57:10,640
Speaker 1: The Wizards and Gnats are embarrassing, embarrassing their fan bases.

2147
01:57:11,320 --> 01:57:12,560
Speaker 1: And I have a lot more to say about this

2148
01:57:12,600 --> 01:57:15,919
Speaker 1: tanking thing, but I've got to wrap up this broadcast,

2149
01:57:15,960 --> 01:57:17,440
Speaker 1: so with that, I'll see you in twenty four hours.