WEBVTT - Making Working More Optional with $Pro Tanja Hester #076 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:02.800 Welcome to How to Money. I'm Joel and I'm Matt, 0:00:02.840 --> 0:00:05.840 and today we're discussing making work a smaller part of 0:00:05.840 --> 0:00:27.120 your life with money pro Tanya hester that's right, Joel. 0:00:27.120 --> 0:00:29.120 This is gonna be an episode of talking about our 0:00:29.120 --> 0:00:32.680 attitudes towards work, and we're gonna talk about retirement as well. 0:00:32.720 --> 0:00:34.640 It's just some different types of retirement. And I'm glad 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:36.760 that we have our five minutes segment with Tanya to 0:00:36.880 --> 0:00:39.680 get us thinking about that a little differently, Joel. But first, 0:00:39.720 --> 0:00:41.760 I wanted to run a frugal versu cheap by you man, 0:00:41.800 --> 0:00:43.960 I got I got one for you bring a buddy. Okay, 0:00:44.000 --> 0:00:46.800 So I applied for a new credit card because I 0:00:46.840 --> 0:00:48.760 was wanting to get that sign up bonus. This is 0:00:48.880 --> 0:00:52.520 a sign up bonus. Yeah, it's a It's a pretty 0:00:52.520 --> 0:00:54.320 good one. And here's why I want to talk about 0:00:54.360 --> 0:00:56.760 this is because a lot of times people talk about 0:00:56.880 --> 0:00:59.160 not opening new cards for bonuses like that because it 0:00:59.240 --> 0:01:01.320 dings your credit. Yeah. I think we had a recent 0:01:01.360 --> 0:01:04.120 discussion in the Facebook group about that. Man, It's kind 0:01:04.120 --> 0:01:06.679 of a constant sort of topic, right, Yeah. But so 0:01:06.760 --> 0:01:10.000 my question is is it being frugal or cheap to 0:01:10.000 --> 0:01:11.760 sign up for a new car to get that bonus 0:01:12.000 --> 0:01:14.759 when it hurts your credit score, what do you think? So? 0:01:14.880 --> 0:01:17.360 I think it depends on your specific situation. If you're 0:01:17.400 --> 0:01:19.640 applying for a home loan or a car loan like 0:01:19.760 --> 0:01:22.959 literally next week, then it's it's cheap. It's a bad 0:01:23.000 --> 0:01:25.240 idea to get that five bucks and doing your credit 0:01:25.280 --> 0:01:27.440 score and potentially hurt these interest rates that you're going 0:01:27.480 --> 0:01:30.240 to have for a long time on while you're paying 0:01:30.240 --> 0:01:32.640 down a car or a home. But if you're not 0:01:32.680 --> 0:01:35.039 in that situation, if you're not looking to finance anything 0:01:35.040 --> 0:01:37.199 in the near future, I say, doing your credit score 0:01:37.200 --> 0:01:39.200 and take the cash. Yeah, man, I couldn't agree more. 0:01:39.280 --> 0:01:41.600 I mean, what's your credit score for? But use it? 0:01:41.760 --> 0:01:43.760 I think what happens is a lot of times folks 0:01:44.319 --> 0:01:47.000 view their credit score as this indicator of just how 0:01:47.040 --> 0:01:49.760 good they are with money, or maybe their success or 0:01:49.800 --> 0:01:52.520 just a number of things. But that number is there 0:01:52.560 --> 0:01:54.200 for you to use it if you have a great 0:01:54.200 --> 0:01:56.160 credit score, and you can use that to to get 0:01:56.240 --> 0:01:58.520 great financial products, whether it be a new credit card 0:01:58.720 --> 0:02:01.520 or especially owns. But in my case, I'm using it 0:02:01.560 --> 0:02:04.000 to get new cards to get the sign up bonuses. Well, 0:02:04.160 --> 0:02:06.320 I'm not looking to have a perfect credit score just 0:02:06.360 --> 0:02:08.840 for the sake of someday achieving eight fifty like a 0:02:08.880 --> 0:02:11.040 gold star on a test. Yeah, Like, what's it really matter? 0:02:11.080 --> 0:02:12.919 It doesn't really matter, you know. What matters is the 0:02:12.919 --> 0:02:15.200 bottom line for me right now. That's not getting a 0:02:15.240 --> 0:02:17.120 great rate on a new mortgage, because I'm not looking 0:02:17.120 --> 0:02:18.799 to get one of those anytime soon, like you mentioned. 0:02:19.000 --> 0:02:21.000 But the dollar amount in my pocket, Like, that's what 0:02:21.040 --> 0:02:23.120 I'm looking at. And in our case, we already had 0:02:23.160 --> 0:02:25.720 a big expense coming up literally this morning. We actually 0:02:25.720 --> 0:02:28.480 just paid for our new baby all right at the 0:02:28.480 --> 0:02:30.480 person center. I told you about that you gotta wait 0:02:30.480 --> 0:02:32.760 on your delivery for a while, exactly. Yeah, but that's 0:02:32.760 --> 0:02:34.760 an expense we knew was coming up, and so why 0:02:34.760 --> 0:02:36.400 not put that on a card and we're gonna pay 0:02:36.440 --> 0:02:37.919 it off at the end of the month and get 0:02:37.919 --> 0:02:40.480 that five off. That's a that's a great deal. But 0:02:40.520 --> 0:02:42.079 like you said, if you're going to be applying for 0:02:42.120 --> 0:02:44.320 a mortgage anytime soon, you might want to hold off 0:02:44.600 --> 0:02:46.520 and know yourself as well. If you think that applying 0:02:46.520 --> 0:02:49.240 for a new card might cause you to spend more 0:02:49.280 --> 0:02:51.320 than than you really should be spending, well, don't. Don't 0:02:51.320 --> 0:02:52.960 do that if you know that you'll be tempted. Yeah, 0:02:53.000 --> 0:02:55.720 you're gonna pay for the baby anyway, right, certainly. So yeah, 0:02:56.040 --> 0:02:58.440 I think too, to your point about how people view 0:02:58.480 --> 0:03:00.760 their credit score, Matt, there's some people that are obsessed 0:03:00.800 --> 0:03:03.880 with hitting the eight hundred credit score number, or or 0:03:03.919 --> 0:03:05.480 even getting above that, and they're like, why isn't my 0:03:05.520 --> 0:03:07.640 score perfect? And there are all these little things that 0:03:07.680 --> 0:03:10.400 influence your score. And if you're in that seven sixties, 0:03:10.400 --> 0:03:14.560 seven seventy or above range, you're in amazing credit territory. 0:03:14.760 --> 0:03:17.000 And if you're above seven forty, you're in super super 0:03:17.000 --> 0:03:19.800 solid territory. And and so I think just kind of 0:03:19.800 --> 0:03:21.600 look at where you're at. If you have a credit 0:03:21.639 --> 0:03:24.679 score of seven ninety eight hundred, taking advantage of a 0:03:24.720 --> 0:03:27.080 new credit card deal with a sign up bonus is 0:03:27.080 --> 0:03:30.160 going to cost you, in all likelihood ten maybe twelve points. 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:31.760 It's not that big of a deal, and it still 0:03:31.840 --> 0:03:35.720 keeps you in pristine credit range. So don't overthink it, 0:03:36.040 --> 0:03:38.119 don't worry about it. So it's important to know, yeah, 0:03:38.120 --> 0:03:40.400 that your credit score is is helpful for so many things, 0:03:40.520 --> 0:03:42.440 but it's also something that you can use to your benefit, 0:03:42.480 --> 0:03:44.640 like you're doing right now. Yeah, so it's important to 0:03:44.640 --> 0:03:46.280 not get too bogged down with the details when it 0:03:46.280 --> 0:03:48.040 comes to your credit score. I want to talk about 0:03:48.040 --> 0:03:51.440 our beer today that we have from land Grant brew Company, 0:03:51.760 --> 0:03:54.800 uh and they are out of Columbus, Ohio. Matt. This 0:03:54.880 --> 0:03:57.960 is a beer in their Quadra Hopic series of I 0:03:58.080 --> 0:04:00.920 p A S and this one features force specific hops 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:03.320 And this was sent to us from listener Kayla, who 0:04:03.320 --> 0:04:05.600 works for land Grant Brewing. And you know we're always 0:04:05.600 --> 0:04:07.000 down for a good I p A. So thank you 0:04:07.080 --> 0:04:09.120 Kayla for sending this one out. We're having some SIPs 0:04:09.160 --> 0:04:10.760 of this right now, but we'll talk more about this 0:04:10.800 --> 0:04:13.040 beer at the end of this episode. Yeah, Matt, so 0:04:13.080 --> 0:04:14.920 onto the subject at hand. The topic of the day 0:04:14.960 --> 0:04:16.880 is making work a smaller part of your life, and 0:04:16.920 --> 0:04:19.640 we're bringing money pro Tanya Hester on to to talk 0:04:19.680 --> 0:04:22.320 about this. She blogs and a blog called Our Next Life, 0:04:22.360 --> 0:04:25.120 and she recently wrote a book called Work Optional, And 0:04:25.120 --> 0:04:26.440 if you stay tuned to the end of the episode, 0:04:26.480 --> 0:04:29.800 we're actually gonna give away a few copies to listeners. Um. 0:04:29.839 --> 0:04:32.719 She also, by the way, hosts the Fairer Sense podcast 0:04:33.000 --> 0:04:34.880 and she's done so much work which is kind of 0:04:34.920 --> 0:04:37.480 a funny thing to say, because she's talking about work optional. 0:04:37.680 --> 0:04:40.880 She's done a lot of work to think through this subject. Well, 0:04:41.360 --> 0:04:43.880 she has afforded herself the opportunity she and her husband 0:04:44.080 --> 0:04:46.720 to make work a completely optional part of their life, 0:04:46.760 --> 0:04:49.040 and they can work however much or however little they 0:04:49.080 --> 0:04:51.920 want to based on the way that they've saved and 0:04:52.120 --> 0:04:54.839 invested and thought about money for a number of years. 0:04:55.040 --> 0:04:56.600 So I'm really excited to see how we can take 0:04:56.640 --> 0:04:59.920 this subject with Tanya and make it applicable to listeners 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:02.680 no matter what their current financial situation is. Yeah, Joel, 0:05:02.680 --> 0:05:04.600 That's one of the things I love about Tanya's story 0:05:04.720 --> 0:05:07.280 is she's talking about this from a standpoint of authority 0:05:07.279 --> 0:05:10.599 because she has achieved financial independence, she's retired early, but 0:05:10.720 --> 0:05:13.200 she wasn't always set in life. She mentioned in her 0:05:13.200 --> 0:05:15.960 book how until her late twenties she had a negative 0:05:16.000 --> 0:05:19.080 net worth just from some dumb financial decisions that she made. 0:05:19.320 --> 0:05:20.960 She wasn't one of these high school grads where straight 0:05:21.000 --> 0:05:23.080 up high school theas she started like an app or 0:05:23.320 --> 0:05:25.160 you know, she wasn't a genius in college to where 0:05:25.200 --> 0:05:28.000 she had companies on Wall Street making her amazing offers. 0:05:28.160 --> 0:05:30.280 She worked for MPR. And I don't know if you've heard, 0:05:30.279 --> 0:05:33.479 but NPR asked for a lot of money because because 0:05:33.520 --> 0:05:35.839 they're not very well funded. Yeah, people in radio, I 0:05:35.839 --> 0:05:38.279 can attest to this, don't typically make too much money. 0:05:38.320 --> 0:05:40.240 And I guarantee you most of the folks at NPR 0:05:40.320 --> 0:05:42.400 aren't making tons of money either, so exactly, And so 0:05:42.400 --> 0:05:44.560 I love though that she started at that point, um, 0:05:44.600 --> 0:05:47.520 and I think that's incredibly relatable to anyone. And we'll 0:05:47.520 --> 0:05:50.479 hear Tanya's five minutes of distilled wisdom about this in 0:05:50.520 --> 0:05:53.320 one second. But really quick, let's talk about the problems 0:05:53.360 --> 0:05:55.320 that people have with work, Matt and and we address 0:05:55.400 --> 0:05:57.320 this a little bit in episode fifty of our show 0:05:57.520 --> 0:05:59.600 about what a proper view of work should look like. 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:02.400 We mentioned that work is a wonderful thing, but work 0:06:02.440 --> 0:06:05.360 isn't everything. And those two views have been the main 0:06:05.440 --> 0:06:08.200 ways that we've categorized work in our culture these days. 0:06:08.600 --> 0:06:11.320 And Americans work way more than they did in the past, 0:06:11.360 --> 0:06:14.040 and far more than other countries. So it's no wonder 0:06:14.120 --> 0:06:16.560 that we are looking for ways to work less and 0:06:16.640 --> 0:06:19.440 enjoy our work more. And so Tanya isn't approaching this 0:06:19.520 --> 0:06:22.000 because she hates work, and we don't either. We think 0:06:22.040 --> 0:06:24.800 work is an important thing and a meaningful thing. We 0:06:24.839 --> 0:06:26.280 think that she's kind of helping us find out how 0:06:26.320 --> 0:06:28.800 to do meaningful work from a position of strength, and 0:06:28.839 --> 0:06:32.160 having strong personal finances is crucial in that equation. Yeah, 0:06:32.200 --> 0:06:34.280 and just not being stressed while you are working. She 0:06:34.320 --> 0:06:36.680 also mentions how like her and her husband are both 0:06:36.680 --> 0:06:39.200 on boards and they're pretty much busier than ever right now. 0:06:39.240 --> 0:06:41.400 But what they are doing is they're spending their energies 0:06:41.560 --> 0:06:44.240 and their time working on things that they actually truly 0:06:44.279 --> 0:06:46.360 care about. And when they don't have to worry about 0:06:46.400 --> 0:06:48.560 the money, well it becomes a joy. It's it's sort 0:06:48.600 --> 0:06:51.560 of this passion pursuit. And how much more fulfilling is 0:06:51.560 --> 0:06:53.120 that when you're able to work on something because you 0:06:53.120 --> 0:06:55.440 believe it, not because you know that. Well, that's how 0:06:55.480 --> 0:06:57.599 I get the best paycheck. Um, And that's where she's 0:06:57.640 --> 0:07:00.800 operating from, and I know I want to operate from 0:07:00.800 --> 0:07:02.600 that standpoint, and I think a lot of our listeners 0:07:02.680 --> 0:07:05.080 I would agree, and that resonates with them as well. Yeah. 0:07:05.120 --> 0:07:06.800 So just a quick reminder that the way these money 0:07:06.800 --> 0:07:09.239 Pro episodes work is that we bring on our money 0:07:09.240 --> 0:07:12.600 Pro for five minutes of distilled wisdom, and so, without 0:07:12.600 --> 0:07:15.600 further ado, here is Tanya's five minutes on avoiding burnout 0:07:15.640 --> 0:07:17.960 and making work a smaller part of your life. K 0:07:18.120 --> 0:07:19.960 Matt and Joel, thanks for having me on to talk 0:07:20.000 --> 0:07:22.040 about how to make work a smaller part of life 0:07:22.120 --> 0:07:25.680 even if you never plan to retire early. First, let's 0:07:25.680 --> 0:07:27.800 talk about why it behooves us all to act as 0:07:27.800 --> 0:07:30.800 if we're going to retire early, even if early means 0:07:30.840 --> 0:07:35.280 fifty or fifty five, not forty or thirty five, depending 0:07:35.320 --> 0:07:37.680 on how the survey writers ask the question. We know 0:07:37.760 --> 0:07:40.880 that somewhere between one third and two thirds of people 0:07:40.960 --> 0:07:43.600 retire before they intend to for a whole host of 0:07:43.640 --> 0:07:47.680 reasons poor health, badly time, layoffs, needing to care for 0:07:47.720 --> 0:07:50.520 a sick loved one, that kind of thing. We also 0:07:50.600 --> 0:07:53.440 know from New Urban Institute and pro public analysis that 0:07:53.480 --> 0:07:55.880 more than half of workers over fifty are laid off 0:07:56.000 --> 0:07:58.960 or let go in ways that irreparably harm their financial health, 0:07:59.040 --> 0:08:01.000 maybe making the type of retirement they had hoped for 0:08:01.120 --> 0:08:05.880 impossible more than half more than half of workers over fifty. 0:08:06.000 --> 0:08:08.680 And of course we all know that automation, outsourcing and 0:08:08.680 --> 0:08:11.200 shifts within industries aren't ever present threat to long term 0:08:11.320 --> 0:08:14.400 job security. What you do now simply may not exist 0:08:14.440 --> 0:08:16.840 as a job by the time you're fifty. So even 0:08:16.880 --> 0:08:18.840 if you love your job and have zero desire to 0:08:18.880 --> 0:08:21.480 leave it before your sixties, you may not ultimately have 0:08:21.640 --> 0:08:23.920 that say, And you're so much better off if you 0:08:23.920 --> 0:08:26.880 can give yourself the financial flexibility to weather any setbacks 0:08:26.920 --> 0:08:30.440 that come your way. But ultimately we're talking about making 0:08:30.440 --> 0:08:32.920 mandatory work a smaller part of life, which feels like 0:08:32.920 --> 0:08:36.520 an almost revolutionary thing to say. In our seven hustle culture, 0:08:37.080 --> 0:08:39.439 the hustle culture that puts virtually all the power in 0:08:39.520 --> 0:08:42.920 employer's hands, that puts most of the productivity gains into 0:08:43.000 --> 0:08:46.120 shareholders hands, not workers hands. The work culture that has 0:08:46.200 --> 0:08:49.720 us working on average for full time weeks worth of 0:08:49.720 --> 0:08:52.920 hours more per year than workers did forty years ago. 0:08:53.240 --> 0:08:55.400 The culture that has most of us checking email on 0:08:55.520 --> 0:08:58.280 vacation and when sick, if we even take any sick 0:08:58.320 --> 0:09:02.280 time at all. This is at hustle culture. It's burnout culture, 0:09:02.640 --> 0:09:05.520 and it's killing us. But it's possible to fight back. 0:09:06.240 --> 0:09:09.760 In my book Work Optional, Retire Early, The nonpenny pinching Way, 0:09:09.960 --> 0:09:12.400 I outlined three possible paths that you could follow to 0:09:12.480 --> 0:09:15.400 make mandatory work a smaller part of your life. First, 0:09:15.520 --> 0:09:18.240 there's full early retirement, which is what I did along 0:09:18.240 --> 0:09:20.640 with my husband Mark, saving enough so that we never 0:09:20.760 --> 0:09:23.280 need to earn another dollar, meaning any work we do 0:09:23.400 --> 0:09:27.239 is now entirely on our own terms. There's also semi retirement, 0:09:27.400 --> 0:09:29.680 in which you save fully for your traditional retirement and 0:09:29.679 --> 0:09:31.920 then work just enough in your semi retired years to 0:09:31.960 --> 0:09:35.200 cover all or part of your living expenses. And finally, 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:37.880 there's career intermission, in which you save enough to be 0:09:37.920 --> 0:09:39.640 able to take a year or two off from work, 0:09:39.840 --> 0:09:42.280 or perhaps a year every decade, or six months every 0:09:42.320 --> 0:09:45.400 five years, whatever feels right to you. But the truth 0:09:45.480 --> 0:09:47.400 is that you don't even have to achieve any of 0:09:47.400 --> 0:09:50.440 these levels of financial independence to make work more optional 0:09:50.480 --> 0:09:52.680 in your life. When we got to a point in 0:09:52.679 --> 0:09:54.760 our savings that I knew we could both get laid 0:09:54.800 --> 0:09:56.640 off and be unable to find work for a full 0:09:56.720 --> 0:10:00.240 year and still be okay, it was incredible how my 0:10:00.320 --> 0:10:04.439 whole view on work changed suddenly. That daily stress affected 0:10:04.480 --> 0:10:08.160 me less, the NonStop travel felt less grueling. Honestly, I 0:10:08.160 --> 0:10:11.320 felt powerful. I knew I didn't need the job, and 0:10:11.360 --> 0:10:13.280 while I stayed with it, for several more years, and 0:10:13.320 --> 0:10:16.160 honestly loved it until we'd saved enough to quit entirely. 0:10:16.640 --> 0:10:19.040 Knowing I could quit and be okay was one of 0:10:19.080 --> 0:10:22.160 the best things I've ever felt. It also changed the 0:10:22.160 --> 0:10:24.720 whole dynamic I had at work. Most of us have 0:10:24.840 --> 0:10:28.199 this massive power imbalance with our employers. They have the 0:10:28.240 --> 0:10:31.120 money and we want it, so we'll do pretty much 0:10:31.160 --> 0:10:34.640 whatever they ask of us, even if it's unhealthy and unsustainable, 0:10:35.080 --> 0:10:37.720 even if it destroys our relationships and gives us no 0:10:37.880 --> 0:10:41.319 time outside of work to pursue our own passions. When 0:10:41.320 --> 0:10:43.640 I knew I didn't need my job anymore, it flipped 0:10:43.679 --> 0:10:46.480 how I saw the whole arrangement. It was no longer 0:10:46.600 --> 0:10:49.040 me speaking to an omniscient being who held my fate 0:10:49.040 --> 0:10:52.480 in its hands. It was too economic equals. We each 0:10:52.480 --> 0:10:55.160 have something the other wants. I want your money, and 0:10:55.200 --> 0:10:58.000 you want my skills and talent. Knowing I could walk 0:10:58.040 --> 0:11:00.200 away was what made it possible for me to eyes 0:11:00.240 --> 0:11:02.480 to that equal position in the relationship and to push 0:11:02.480 --> 0:11:05.040 for what I wanted, like better projects and teams and 0:11:05.120 --> 0:11:07.840 better terms for those working under me. I didn't have 0:11:07.960 --> 0:11:11.080 to get anywhere near early retirement levels of savings and 0:11:11.160 --> 0:11:14.400 investments to feel that power just enough to know that 0:11:14.440 --> 0:11:17.320 I could quit any time, and that's something that's within 0:11:17.360 --> 0:11:20.559 reach for most of us. So where to begin. I'm 0:11:20.600 --> 0:11:22.719 a big fan of starting by mapping out what your 0:11:22.720 --> 0:11:24.720 ideal life would look like, both so you know what 0:11:24.800 --> 0:11:26.920 it costs and so you have a vision that will 0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:29.600 motivate you to save over the long term. Then get 0:11:29.640 --> 0:11:32.679 tactical track your spending, figure out how much you can 0:11:32.720 --> 0:11:34.920 currently afford to save and how you expect that to 0:11:34.960 --> 0:11:37.840 grow over time, and then put automated systems into place 0:11:37.880 --> 0:11:40.240 to help you save, like having your paycheck split so 0:11:40.280 --> 0:11:42.719 a portion goes to savings without you even seeing it, 0:11:43.160 --> 0:11:45.040 or working toward maxing out your I RA A or 0:11:45.080 --> 0:11:48.199 four oh one K. I offer a saving sequence in 0:11:48.240 --> 0:11:50.200 the book that helps you think about tackling a bunch 0:11:50.240 --> 0:11:53.200 of financial goals in sequence, whether it's paying off debt, 0:11:53.520 --> 0:11:55.920 saving to buy a home, or saving for early retirement, 0:11:56.240 --> 0:11:59.080 or some combination of all three. You don't have to 0:11:59.080 --> 0:12:01.079 be a super saver or a high earner to give 0:12:01.120 --> 0:12:04.040 yourself the power to live a work optional life. You 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:06.920 just have to be willing to get started. I hope 0:12:06.920 --> 0:12:08.960 this has giving you something to think about. Thanks for 0:12:09.040 --> 0:12:12.200 letting me share my thoughts guys, Tanya, thank you. This 0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:14.679 is awesome. There is clearly such a wealth of wisdom 0:12:14.720 --> 0:12:16.720 that Tanya has, and it's no wonder that she's written 0:12:16.800 --> 0:12:19.440 multiple books stroll um. I'm looking forward to diving into 0:12:19.520 --> 0:12:21.400 all that she had to say right after this break. 0:12:30.120 --> 0:12:32.320 All right, Matt, we'll back and man, I so love 0:12:32.480 --> 0:12:34.760 but Tanya had to say and the perspective that she has, 0:12:34.800 --> 0:12:37.120 like where she comes from. One of my favorite things 0:12:37.120 --> 0:12:39.439 that she said was at the beginning of For five 0:12:39.480 --> 0:12:41.440 Minutes when she said that it's better to act like 0:12:41.480 --> 0:12:44.080 you're going to retire early, even if you don't think 0:12:44.120 --> 0:12:46.840 that you're going to. And that was such an awesome 0:12:46.880 --> 0:12:49.320 and powerful thing for me. And I think the reason 0:12:49.360 --> 0:12:52.360 why is because many of us think that we control 0:12:52.400 --> 0:12:54.959 our own fate, that even if we're a good employee, 0:12:55.160 --> 0:12:57.320 that we're assured of a job in the future, and 0:12:57.520 --> 0:13:00.280 especially in today's corporate culture, that's just not the case. 0:13:00.600 --> 0:13:03.199 And I love the idea of acting and treating our 0:13:03.200 --> 0:13:06.040 finances like we're planning to retire early, saving a whole 0:13:06.080 --> 0:13:08.360 heck of a lot more than we are now, even 0:13:08.400 --> 0:13:11.120 if we don't necessarily want to to quit work at 0:13:11.120 --> 0:13:14.920 an early age. I think that's so powerful and so important. Yeah, Joe, because, 0:13:14.920 --> 0:13:17.200 like she mentioned, there's a whole host of reasons why 0:13:17.360 --> 0:13:19.720 you might actually have to end up retiring early, whether 0:13:19.760 --> 0:13:23.040 they be personal or industry specific, depending on the industry 0:13:23.040 --> 0:13:25.880 that you're in or your specific company. Um, I'm I'm 0:13:25.880 --> 0:13:27.959 with you though. The fact that she mentioned focusing on 0:13:28.000 --> 0:13:32.079 doing that early, it's sort of this overachiever mentality, and honestly, 0:13:32.080 --> 0:13:34.560 that's just a better way to live life. I'm not 0:13:34.640 --> 0:13:37.280 habitually late by any means. I don't think I am 0:13:37.320 --> 0:13:38.959 am I late all the time? No, not usually, I 0:13:38.960 --> 0:13:41.480 don't think so. But I can probably count on my 0:13:41.520 --> 0:13:43.240 hand the number of times I was early to something 0:13:43.360 --> 0:13:45.520 last year. But when you are early to something, just 0:13:45.559 --> 0:13:47.880 think about how much better of a position that puts 0:13:47.920 --> 0:13:49.400 you in when it comes to the quality of life 0:13:49.400 --> 0:13:51.560 that you have. You're just less stressed. You're not rushing 0:13:51.559 --> 0:13:53.480 around to make sure you're there on time. When it 0:13:53.480 --> 0:13:55.920 comes to opportunities, like you show up early someplace, you're 0:13:55.920 --> 0:13:57.560 just kind of hanging out, like you can find ways 0:13:57.559 --> 0:13:59.839 to help out. You have more options when you have time. 0:14:00.240 --> 0:14:03.000 But then also like the quality of your work improves. 0:14:03.240 --> 0:14:05.560 Imagine showing up to an interview ten minutes earlier versus 0:14:05.640 --> 0:14:08.320 right on time. You're probably gonna perform a little bit 0:14:08.320 --> 0:14:09.880 better if you had ten minutes to sit there and 0:14:09.920 --> 0:14:11.840 think about it. So, just in general, when it comes 0:14:11.840 --> 0:14:14.760 to your finances and reaching a point of financial stability, 0:14:15.080 --> 0:14:17.000 a little ahead of time, a little bit early in 0:14:17.000 --> 0:14:18.960 a similar way that you see that benefiting you in 0:14:19.040 --> 0:14:22.440 real life, like social or work situations. And there are 0:14:22.440 --> 0:14:24.240 a lot of aspects of our life, Matt, that we 0:14:24.280 --> 0:14:26.760 don't have control over. Right We might, like Tanya said, 0:14:27.080 --> 0:14:29.600 have some sort of bad health outcome or or get 0:14:29.680 --> 0:14:32.120 laid off, even if we've been doing a good job, 0:14:32.320 --> 0:14:34.040 and there might be a need for us to care 0:14:34.120 --> 0:14:36.440 for somebody else in our life. Maybe somebody else that 0:14:36.480 --> 0:14:39.160 we love and care about deeply get sick, and who 0:14:39.200 --> 0:14:41.640 knows what that may bring to your life time wise 0:14:41.840 --> 0:14:44.320 and money needs. So even if you love your job, 0:14:44.440 --> 0:14:46.360 even if you think and you plan on working till 0:14:46.400 --> 0:14:49.920 age sixty five or seventy, well, unforeseen circumstances could prevent that, 0:14:50.080 --> 0:14:52.480 and you just have to be prepared. And Matt, for example, 0:14:52.720 --> 0:14:54.800 the company I work for my day job they have 0:14:54.880 --> 0:14:57.960 announced that the radio station I work for is for sale, 0:14:58.200 --> 0:14:59.880 and that could mean a whole host for sale. By 0:15:00.560 --> 0:15:02.880 like there's a sign off front there is yeah, and 0:15:02.920 --> 0:15:03.920 I was like, I'll buy it, and they're like, you 0:15:03.960 --> 0:15:06.040 don't have enough. I'm sorry you can't, but yeah. So 0:15:06.160 --> 0:15:08.960 there's such an element of fright in the building when 0:15:09.000 --> 0:15:11.080 an announcement like that gets made, and you can just 0:15:11.160 --> 0:15:15.200 tell that so many people haven't thought at all about 0:15:15.200 --> 0:15:17.760 what life might look like if something like that were 0:15:17.800 --> 0:15:21.440 to happen. There's just been zero planning. And I understand that, 0:15:21.480 --> 0:15:23.840 like I have pity for that, Like I I completely 0:15:24.400 --> 0:15:26.360 know that there are so many other things to take 0:15:26.400 --> 0:15:29.320 over our lives from just the day job, the grind 0:15:29.480 --> 0:15:31.480 and and kids and all the other things that are 0:15:31.480 --> 0:15:33.120 going on in our lives. But if we don't pay 0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:35.920 attention to our finances, an announcement like that gets made 0:15:35.920 --> 0:15:38.000 and people are freaking out. And for me, I mean, 0:15:38.040 --> 0:15:40.160 I like my day job, it's really fun, I like 0:15:40.200 --> 0:15:41.840 the people I work with, I like what I do. 0:15:42.080 --> 0:15:44.400 But I also know that when this announcement got made, 0:15:44.720 --> 0:15:47.240 not much changed in my mind because I know where 0:15:47.240 --> 0:15:49.040 I'm at financially. I know that I have the ability 0:15:49.080 --> 0:15:51.400 to weather any storm like this, and that just gave 0:15:51.440 --> 0:15:53.200 me a lot of confidence that I don't have to 0:15:53.240 --> 0:15:56.160 worry about what happens if they call me tomorrow and 0:15:56.200 --> 0:15:58.480 say it got sold, and we don't need your position anymore. 0:15:58.720 --> 0:16:00.720 Like I'm in a position of length to be able 0:16:00.760 --> 0:16:02.880 to say, Okay, I can take a year off, or 0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:05.160 I can work to find something else as quickly as possible. 0:16:05.400 --> 0:16:07.480 But I just don't have to fret about it. And 0:16:07.520 --> 0:16:09.240 that is such a nice place to be. And I 0:16:09.240 --> 0:16:11.320 know that that's just a rare position for people, but 0:16:11.360 --> 0:16:14.720 it's an important one to think about now before that 0:16:14.760 --> 0:16:17.640 announcement gets made at your work, right. I love that 0:16:17.680 --> 0:16:19.880 you are in a position of of strength to a 0:16:19.880 --> 0:16:21.840 certain extent. Here is not to say that you're financially 0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:23.960 independent right now or that you're you know that you've 0:16:24.000 --> 0:16:26.640 retired early, but you have, but that I could because 0:16:26.640 --> 0:16:29.640 I can't. Yeah, but you do have some margin, you know, 0:16:29.720 --> 0:16:31.560 I've we've talked before and you've mentioned how you could 0:16:31.560 --> 0:16:33.000 maybe take a year off, and you know you could 0:16:33.000 --> 0:16:34.880 get by things will be all right. We're maybe in 0:16:34.880 --> 0:16:36.360 a similar position. I don't think we could take a 0:16:36.360 --> 0:16:38.880 full year off, but that's something that we're working towards 0:16:38.880 --> 0:16:41.120 to have that financial margin to be prepared to whether 0:16:41.120 --> 0:16:43.280 the different storms like that. And again, it's not saying 0:16:43.280 --> 0:16:45.920 that we don't enjoy work. We're just looking at ways 0:16:45.960 --> 0:16:48.800 to make mandatory work a smaller part of your life. 0:16:49.000 --> 0:16:50.560 And so in order to do that, though, you have 0:16:50.640 --> 0:16:53.840 to push back against the standard work culture where the 0:16:53.880 --> 0:16:56.480 power is in the hands of employers and time you 0:16:56.600 --> 0:16:59.360 mentioned that, because when you're overworked like that, that's what 0:16:59.440 --> 0:17:01.760 leads to the and out, when you feel that you 0:17:01.800 --> 0:17:04.080 have to say yes to every single thing that's being 0:17:04.080 --> 0:17:06.199 asked of you. Sometimes it may not even be the 0:17:06.240 --> 0:17:09.840 most upstanding request, but you think, oh, we'll shoot, I'm 0:17:09.840 --> 0:17:12.040 counting on a paycheck to come in next week. Kind 0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:14.320 of held to this carrot, you know, being dangled in 0:17:14.400 --> 0:17:16.480 front of you and there's a requirement of you to 0:17:16.560 --> 0:17:19.080 perform to a certain extent. And that's the view and 0:17:19.080 --> 0:17:22.240 attitudes towards work that we're trying to get away from. Matt. 0:17:22.280 --> 0:17:24.520 Let me give another just quick example. And part of 0:17:24.520 --> 0:17:28.960 the reason that I've created this level of financial security 0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:31.359 in my life comes from what I experienced as a 0:17:31.400 --> 0:17:34.600 kid in childhood and my dad lost his job when 0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:37.200