1
00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:06,640
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha.

2
00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:08,239
Speaker 2: Welcome to stuff I never told you production of My

3
00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:08,800
Speaker 2: Heart Radio.

4
00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:20,959
Speaker 1: Okay, I feel like I always have to take a

5
00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:24,560
Speaker 1: deep breath in some of our episodes, Annie, just knowing

6
00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:28,600
Speaker 1: that we're coming into something not necessarily heavy, heavy, but

7
00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:34,680
Speaker 1: at least thought provoking. Is that the way I.

8
00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:38,760
Speaker 3: Say that there's a lot to consider with this topic. Okay,

9
00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:40,920
Speaker 3: it is a very huge topic.

10
00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:43,199
Speaker 1: Very huge topic it is. Indeed, so we're gonna go

11
00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:45,199
Speaker 1: ahead and put a content warning here because we are

12
00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:50,040
Speaker 1: going to talk about purity culture. We're mentioning rape culture,

13
00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:54,680
Speaker 1: but essentially we're talking about virginity and how it's looking today.

14
00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:56,959
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know that was very big.

15
00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:00,840
Speaker 1: Of course, we dedicated a whole episode on this subject

16
00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:04,680
Speaker 1: of purity culture previously, and if you haven't listened to that,

17
00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:06,560
Speaker 1: go and do so. It's a part of our religious

18
00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:09,360
Speaker 1: trauma series. I believe it was episode three out of

19
00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:12,840
Speaker 1: Like Infinity because we couldn't stop. I couldn't stop because

20
00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:16,440
Speaker 1: you know, it's too fitting for our trauma origination. I

21
00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:18,840
Speaker 1: feel like that was my og story, so might as

22
00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:21,080
Speaker 1: well keep going talking about trauma, and we have plenty

23
00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:22,800
Speaker 1: of it, and we're adding plenty more to it.

24
00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:26,959
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's one way to put it.

25
00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:31,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, anyway, But again, we do want to start off

26
00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:33,920
Speaker 1: with some reminders of what we're talking about specifically, and

27
00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:37,039
Speaker 1: we're talking about with purity culture, which is a reference

28
00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:40,360
Speaker 1: to the idea of sexual purity and sanctity of virginity.

29
00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:43,839
Speaker 1: And I'm saying this as an idea, not my beliefs,

30
00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:46,800
Speaker 1: so you know. So from very well minded dot com

31
00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:49,800
Speaker 1: they say, in context of certain forms of Christianity, purity

32
00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:54,720
Speaker 1: culture refers to sexual purity and chastity. Purity culture connects

33
00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:58,240
Speaker 1: back to Biblical connotations of purity and its value, saying

34
00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:00,800
Speaker 1: extra marital sex and other un who forms of sex

35
00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:08,600
Speaker 1: are sinful, like that term unapproved. I guess that's noted.

36
00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:11,639
Speaker 1: I mean, there you go. But yeah, things like true

37
00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:16,600
Speaker 1: love waits and promise rings. We saw an overly romanticized

38
00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:21,560
Speaker 1: and honestly infantilizing campaign to tell young people, specifically young girls,

39
00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:25,520
Speaker 1: to remain quote pure. One of the things I just

40
00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:28,760
Speaker 1: recently saw was I Believe in documentary. I forgot the

41
00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:31,600
Speaker 1: title of it, but essentially it's Joshua Harris who was

42
00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:34,600
Speaker 1: kind of the catalyst in this conversation of the purity

43
00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:39,320
Speaker 1: culture with I Kissed Dating Goodbye, which, by the way,

44
00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:42,360
Speaker 1: I was during this research Annie, I came upon a

45
00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:46,160
Speaker 1: podcast which I think they reworded. Unless there's a book

46
00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:49,160
Speaker 1: that is actually this title, I don't think so, but

47
00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:52,679
Speaker 1: I think they actually accidentally said I kissed Satan Goodbye,

48
00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:55,280
Speaker 1: and for some reason I liked that version better.

49
00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:02,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, I could see this frame.

50
00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:05,000
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't think that's what she means,

51
00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:07,720
Speaker 1: and we're not talking much about her, But I did

52
00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:09,800
Speaker 1: think that interview was kind of funny in that she

53
00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:15,839
Speaker 1: was trying to revamp uh purity culture in a way

54
00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:18,640
Speaker 1: that she admitted as a person who was religious that

55
00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:21,440
Speaker 1: it was really traumatizing, intriggering, and really went after girls

56
00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:24,720
Speaker 1: a lot. So, you know, like a good and bad portion.

57
00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:27,280
Speaker 1: But the fact that she she miss took the title

58
00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:29,639
Speaker 1: or or the transcript was bad because I didn't listen

59
00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:33,120
Speaker 1: to it and they just put in Satan instead of dating,

60
00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:36,960
Speaker 1: which quite funny. But if you don't know who Joshua

61
00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:39,280
Speaker 1: Harrows is, he's that author, and he's done several more

62
00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:44,200
Speaker 1: books and really made this thing his whole like fortune. Actually,

63
00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:47,400
Speaker 1: but as of like the last five years, I believe

64
00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:50,040
Speaker 1: he's came back with like, eh, I was wrong, this

65
00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:52,920
Speaker 1: is bad. I'm sorry.

66
00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:53,440
Speaker 2: Hmmm.

67
00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:57,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, And he did a documentary talking about like I

68
00:03:57,400 --> 00:03:59,400
Speaker 1: think it was him. Y'all may come back and be like, no,

69
00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:03,000
Speaker 1: that wasn't him. But he's related to somehow in which

70
00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:06,840
Speaker 1: he talks about like youth camps and how that really

71
00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:11,080
Speaker 1: brainwashed a lot of young kids, and a part of

72
00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:12,960
Speaker 1: that brainwashing was purity culture.

73
00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:18,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, and definitely go see because we've also done episodes

74
00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:22,160
Speaker 3: on virginity, like we did two part around that.

75
00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:24,120
Speaker 2: But I know, like.

76
00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:29,560
Speaker 3: In there we talked about there is a pretty widely

77
00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:34,560
Speaker 3: held connection between virginity and youth and that kind of

78
00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:38,159
Speaker 3: purity and innocence and all of that, and that is

79
00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:41,279
Speaker 3: problematic just on the face of it, but when you

80
00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:47,880
Speaker 3: expanded out, it does become very infantilizing for people who've

81
00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:51,280
Speaker 3: never had sex, or don't want to have sex when

82
00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:53,479
Speaker 3: they get older, or just ever.

83
00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:55,480
Speaker 2: So it is a.

84
00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:59,200
Speaker 3: Big So many of these things are a lot to untangle,

85
00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:01,200
Speaker 3: and we're discussing them.

86
00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:05,040
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, and we'll probably forever be entangling them because honestly,

87
00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:08,320
Speaker 1: we don't talk much about it here. But when they

88
00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:13,600
Speaker 1: talk about the deconstruction of theology and deconstruction of Christianity,

89
00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:16,360
Speaker 1: which we've seen it as a movement, and I think

90
00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:19,039
Speaker 1: it's such a fascinating conversation. One of the things that

91
00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:22,159
Speaker 1: attribute to this movement was the fact that the purity

92
00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:26,680
Speaker 1: culture was so traumatizing that our generation, my generation specifically,

93
00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:29,839
Speaker 1: really were like, Hey, yeah, I know this is so wrong,

94
00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:32,920
Speaker 1: this is me up. How do I backtrack from this?

95
00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:35,640
Speaker 1: So that kind of was a pivotal moment for that

96
00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:40,640
Speaker 1: movement in itself. So we actually talked about talking to

97
00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:44,800
Speaker 1: people about spiritual trauma. Anyway, Yeah, and we'll probably come

98
00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:47,120
Speaker 1: back to it because it is a fascinating conversation and

99
00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:48,599
Speaker 1: it has a lot to do with what the government

100
00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:51,960
Speaker 1: is doing to us today. But anyway, moving on and

101
00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:54,560
Speaker 1: just a bit more again from a paper written by

102
00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:57,280
Speaker 1: Katerina As you knowed, I really hope I said that right,

103
00:05:57,360 --> 00:06:00,400
Speaker 1: I don't know. I apologize, But she wrote for Berkeley

104
00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:04,200
Speaker 1: Center dot Georgetown dot edu entitled American Purity Culture in

105
00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:08,400
Speaker 1: Generation Z. Purity culture is a subculture in Christianity that

106
00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:12,360
Speaker 1: generally emphasizes the importance of chastity. These are general emphasis

107
00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:14,679
Speaker 1: of purity culture and then she lists these bullet points.

108
00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:18,000
Speaker 1: Virginity is prized and everyone should wait until marriage to

109
00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:20,719
Speaker 1: have sex. Men should avoid women as they often cannot

110
00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:24,200
Speaker 1: control their sexual desires around women. Sexual abuse is often

111
00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:27,760
Speaker 1: caused by women's inability to follow the rules, especially if

112
00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:31,520
Speaker 1: she is not dressed modestly. Once losing one's virginity, that

113
00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:38,360
Speaker 1: individual is damaged goods, which, by the way, can I

114
00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:40,560
Speaker 1: I've told these stories because I feel like I have

115
00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:45,920
Speaker 1: to confess my sins for the lack of terms, because

116
00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:49,680
Speaker 1: I've really perpetuated these thought processes. I really thought I

117
00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:52,680
Speaker 1: was onto something and I was like, yes, I understand this, Yes,

118
00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:54,919
Speaker 1: this is what this is. Because you know, I have

119
00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:58,359
Speaker 1: seen evil men who would probably claim themselves as Christian,

120
00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:02,520
Speaker 1: doing evil things and traumatizing young girls. Me uh, because

121
00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:05,280
Speaker 1: they could not handle themselves. And then this conversation about

122
00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:09,840
Speaker 1: damage goods was so ridiculous. And I remember the example

123
00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:12,400
Speaker 1: one was of an example of getting a candy bar

124
00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:16,360
Speaker 1: and everybody taking a bite. Did you have that example?

125
00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:19,080
Speaker 3: We've talked about this before. Mine was we had a

126
00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:22,239
Speaker 3: jug of water and everybody spit into it. Oh, would

127
00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:23,520
Speaker 3: you like to drink this water?

128
00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:27,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, well no, I'll spit into it, though like, what

129
00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:29,160
Speaker 1: that doesn't even make sense.

130
00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:32,360
Speaker 2: A lot of it doesn't make sense.

131
00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:35,240
Speaker 1: But then I think the newest form and I'm going

132
00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:38,080
Speaker 1: to talk about this later with the social media, but

133
00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:41,440
Speaker 1: apparently one of the newest forms of metaphors, because I'm

134
00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:45,280
Speaker 1: telling you what, when it comes to Christian theology and sermons,

135
00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:49,600
Speaker 1: they love their metaphors, their stories, their tail tales. I

136
00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:52,880
Speaker 1: guess the Bible does the same thing sort of, except

137
00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:55,000
Speaker 1: the part of the problem is most people hate it

138
00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:57,280
Speaker 1: literally and that's why we have this back and forth.

139
00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:01,680
Speaker 1: But anyway, going back to they have a piece of

140
00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:04,800
Speaker 1: tape and how when you keep taking it off of

141
00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:08,080
Speaker 1: things it loses its stickiness, which I'm like, that's gross

142
00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:08,680
Speaker 1: in itself.

143
00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:14,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, also kind of a boring, like, you know, spitting

144
00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:16,200
Speaker 3: in the water, and we had to go around. I

145
00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:18,800
Speaker 3: feel like the tape betaphor could be done with that

146
00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:19,520
Speaker 3: pretty quickly.

147
00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:20,840
Speaker 2: Maybe that's the point.

148
00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:25,960
Speaker 1: That's the point, all right. So now that we've kind

149
00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:28,880
Speaker 1: of established that we noted in our earlier episode and

150
00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:32,040
Speaker 1: stayed before, purity culture's toxicity is linked to some of

151
00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:36,000
Speaker 1: the prevailing ideas and failings within rape culture today. That's

152
00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:37,400
Speaker 1: some of the things that we had to highlight in

153
00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:41,000
Speaker 1: conversations and about why men get away with raping and

154
00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:45,160
Speaker 1: how women are blamed instead. And then again also forgiven,

155
00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:47,680
Speaker 1: men are forgiven. That's where women are not in their toss.

156
00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:49,480
Speaker 1: To be fair, that it's also biblical because you know,

157
00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:52,439
Speaker 1: if a woman gets raped and that raper doesn't marry her,

158
00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:57,360
Speaker 1: then she can be cast aside and never seen in society. Again, yeah,

159
00:08:57,600 --> 00:08:59,240
Speaker 1: that was the thing because they were like, Joseph is

160
00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:03,120
Speaker 1: a good man because he took this poor little twelve

161
00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:03,800
Speaker 1: year old vision.

162
00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:06,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, with child.

163
00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:10,959
Speaker 1: Anyway, moving on now, maybe you're asking yourself, why are

164
00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:13,320
Speaker 1: we talking about this again? Like I said before, we

165
00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:15,079
Speaker 1: have lots to talk about him this and I think

166
00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:18,000
Speaker 1: it's ever changing. And then again, like I said, you

167
00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:21,040
Speaker 1: might not be because this is a huge subject. It

168
00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:26,080
Speaker 1: is a huge conversation, and one episode really doesn't do

169
00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:29,360
Speaker 1: it justice. It can't. But either way, we're coming back

170
00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:31,280
Speaker 1: and we're talking about it because it has come to

171
00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:35,120
Speaker 1: my attention, Annie that a new form of purity culture

172
00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:38,360
Speaker 1: has come background or so people are saying, or people

173
00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:41,720
Speaker 1: are saying for the younger generations. And yes, I sound

174
00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:45,120
Speaker 1: very old. I am old. I feel that I feel

175
00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:47,720
Speaker 1: that in my knees if you need to know. And

176
00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:51,520
Speaker 1: though for us this is traumatizing as hell, coming back

177
00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:53,719
Speaker 1: to this is really scaring me. I don't like it.

178
00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:56,640
Speaker 1: So we wanted to take a look and see if

179
00:09:56,679 --> 00:10:00,600
Speaker 1: this trend is actually coming background and what is happening.

180
00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:03,080
Speaker 1: I guess any when we were talking about this, I

181
00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:06,439
Speaker 1: asked you if you had seen this trend coming out,

182
00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:09,520
Speaker 1: because it's been on my for you page. There's conversations

183
00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:12,360
Speaker 1: I told you about the reality show, which we're going

184
00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:14,200
Speaker 1: to talk a little bit about it. And now that

185
00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:15,880
Speaker 1: we've researched a bit, I want to ask you, have

186
00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:18,080
Speaker 1: you noticed if this mindset has come back? What have

187
00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:18,520
Speaker 1: you found?

188
00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:20,560
Speaker 2: I found a lot.

189
00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:25,920
Speaker 3: Because people are freaking out about it in the media,

190
00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:29,839
Speaker 3: I have to say, I'll say it's really complicated. It's

191
00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:34,040
Speaker 3: a bit more complicated than what they're reducing it to. So, yes,

192
00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:36,960
Speaker 3: gen Z is being called the generation of virgins in

193
00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:39,920
Speaker 3: the media, or that they're in what is called a

194
00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:44,839
Speaker 3: sex recession. Numbers do show they are having less sex.

195
00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:47,839
Speaker 3: At twenty twenty two, Kenzie Institute found that twenty five

196
00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:50,400
Speaker 3: percent of surveyed Gen Z adults said that they never

197
00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:55,200
Speaker 3: had partnered sex. They are also having fewer one night stands.

198
00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:56,600
Speaker 2: But there are a.

199
00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:59,120
Speaker 3: Lot of reasons for why this is happening. Some of

200
00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:01,559
Speaker 3: them are purity purity culture related, which we're going to

201
00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:05,600
Speaker 3: get into. But one of the ways that people reporting

202
00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:08,600
Speaker 3: on this are breaking it down are political or societal

203
00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:13,440
Speaker 3: reasons versus the puritanical ones. For example, many gen z

204
00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:16,240
Speaker 3: Ers cite the overturning of Roe v. Wade and other

205
00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:19,640
Speaker 3: fears around being unable to get birth control as a

206
00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:21,880
Speaker 3: reason for anxiety around sex and not wanting to have it,

207
00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:26,480
Speaker 3: and that has been shown in numbers as well. Over

208
00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:29,360
Speaker 3: like around thirteen percent of gen Z and eleven percent

209
00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:32,560
Speaker 3: of millennials have said that that whole thing has made

210
00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:34,280
Speaker 3: them not want to have sex. I have friends who

211
00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:36,040
Speaker 3: have this very viewpoints right.

212
00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:39,080
Speaker 1: Well, I know recent reports that the US is at

213
00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:42,559
Speaker 1: a record low birth rates at one point six percent,

214
00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:46,560
Speaker 1: people with unses are celebrating because they're like, Yeah, this

215
00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:48,280
Speaker 1: is what we wanted, this is what we're doing, this

216
00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:51,840
Speaker 1: is exactly what we wanted. We're trying to follow along

217
00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:53,760
Speaker 1: with a lot of the Asian countries which have also

218
00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:57,880
Speaker 1: very low birth rates, and the many things I've been

219
00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:01,000
Speaker 1: doing and I don't know because TikTok is changing if

220
00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:03,680
Speaker 1: because they have allowed for a lot of bad players,

221
00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:07,160
Speaker 1: but a lot of the comments for men being like, well,

222
00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:10,200
Speaker 1: you're you're ignorant if you think that this is gonna help,

223
00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:11,800
Speaker 1: because now you're not gonna have this. This is this,

224
00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:14,360
Speaker 1: and you're gonna like follow society. You go live in

225
00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:16,840
Speaker 1: an island so you can be by yourself, in which I'm.

226
00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:20,800
Speaker 2: Like, do you not know how reproduction works?

227
00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:23,240
Speaker 1: Bruh?

228
00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:27,079
Speaker 2: Probably not. Probably that's another episode about the sex ahead

229
00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:27,720
Speaker 2: part of this.

230
00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:30,440
Speaker 1: Again, Yes, but it is interesting because it has gone

231
00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:33,120
Speaker 1: down and it's purposeful, and it is purposeful, and because

232
00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:36,360
Speaker 1: of things like the Estra project and Project twenty twenty five,

233
00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:37,840
Speaker 1: people who are really scared.

234
00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:42,520
Speaker 3: People are scared, and rightfully so I'm not even involved

235
00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:43,880
Speaker 3: in this whole scene and I'm scared.

236
00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:46,280
Speaker 2: I'm like, I should get first control. I don't know.

237
00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:01,040
Speaker 3: Another piece of this is the last effects of COVID,

238
00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:05,040
Speaker 3: So for gen Z, maybe missing these milestones or at

239
00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:08,480
Speaker 3: least experiencing them differently as you're kind of you know,

240
00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:13,720
Speaker 3: maturing sexually. Our good friend anxiety. Some people think that

241
00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:17,960
Speaker 3: anxiety has to do with what's going on here and

242
00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:21,480
Speaker 3: just the anxiety of growing up in COVID and then

243
00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:26,120
Speaker 3: the world we have now. I personally think that this

244
00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:30,840
Speaker 3: is generally something you can control, like your I hate

245
00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:34,959
Speaker 3: to use virginity, but like your bodily autonomy or sexuality,

246
00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:39,600
Speaker 3: other than of course objectification of your body or sexual assault.

247
00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:43,560
Speaker 3: So it might give some people one variable that they

248
00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:47,880
Speaker 3: largely hopefully can control in a time where it feels

249
00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:50,520
Speaker 3: like we control so little. There of course pros to

250
00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:52,840
Speaker 3: cons to that, because pros and cons to that, because

251
00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:56,920
Speaker 3: ideally that wouldn't be the thing that would make us

252
00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:59,679
Speaker 3: feel like we have more control, or at least the

253
00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:00,320
Speaker 3: only thing.

254
00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:00,760
Speaker 2: I don't know.

255
00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:05,080
Speaker 3: Some people also theorize that the impact of me too

256
00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:08,360
Speaker 3: is a part of this whole thing and what happens

257
00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:13,200
Speaker 3: in the courts wherein men don't really get punished after

258
00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:17,480
Speaker 3: all this. It's so it created this anxiety around sexual

259
00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:20,560
Speaker 3: situations that could lead to sexual assault, but offered no

260
00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:25,000
Speaker 3: real tools people could see and protect themselves, and clearly

261
00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:27,960
Speaker 3: through these court cases it's like, yeah, you're kind of

262
00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:28,400
Speaker 3: on your.

263
00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:29,280
Speaker 2: Own, right.

264
00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:32,000
Speaker 1: I mean, this conversation also leads to in which we're

265
00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:34,560
Speaker 1: gonna talk about in a minute with like cringe and

266
00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:37,400
Speaker 1: being creepy, and which is kind of a gen Z

267
00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:40,000
Speaker 1: like Yeller being creepy, why you're doing too much type

268
00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:42,520
Speaker 1: of conversation because they do see the me too move,

269
00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:45,840
Speaker 1: They're like, yeah, that's gross, And so they have been

270
00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:48,800
Speaker 1: very aware that sexual assault is likely. I guess hearing

271
00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:50,120
Speaker 1: those numbers is really freaky.

272
00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:53,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's a good reminder.

273
00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:57,920
Speaker 3: If you see these headlines that are like, gen Z,

274
00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:01,160
Speaker 3: what's wrong with them, it's not. It's actually that they

275
00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:04,640
Speaker 3: in a lot of cases at least they know the numbers.

276
00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:06,160
Speaker 2: And we're like, yeah, no thanks.

277
00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:13,000
Speaker 3: Another thing that happened both during COVID but just in

278
00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:17,960
Speaker 3: the technological age we live in is that you know,

279
00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:21,600
Speaker 3: there's a lot of outlets on the internet for them

280
00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:25,680
Speaker 3: that they can go to. They don't really need to

281
00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:27,120
Speaker 3: go out with somebody or.

282
00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:29,880
Speaker 1: It's kind of like the Sex and the City episode

283
00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:32,560
Speaker 1: I Believe You and I watched, in which he had

284
00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:34,840
Speaker 1: grown up all the time hearing about sex because of

285
00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:38,280
Speaker 1: his parents being so open about it, that he really

286
00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:40,680
Speaker 1: really was repressed because he was like so over it.

287
00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:48,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, yeah. And that being said, like research does

288
00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:51,880
Speaker 3: indicate that gen Z is not less horny, but more

289
00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:55,480
Speaker 3: aware of potential consequences. So it's not like some people

290
00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:57,880
Speaker 3: report it as like they don't want sex. It's not

291
00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:03,560
Speaker 3: necessarily that or that they don't have those feelings, but

292
00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:04,720
Speaker 3: it's more than they.

293
00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:06,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, they know what's going on, and they have the Internet.

294
00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:12,640
Speaker 3: Yes, I also rad there's been a rise in fem cells,

295
00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:18,120
Speaker 3: which would be women who were voluntary are involuntarily celibate,

296
00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:20,440
Speaker 3: which we're going to have to revisit. That's a whole

297
00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:23,680
Speaker 3: separate thing. That being said, we did see an alarming

298
00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:27,840
Speaker 3: uptick in gen z men voting very conservative in the

299
00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:32,840
Speaker 3: recent US presidential election, in part influenced by the manisphere

300
00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:38,160
Speaker 3: and in cell ideology, including the ideology around virginity and

301
00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:39,040
Speaker 3: how it's women's fault.

302
00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:42,240
Speaker 1: So right. And then this also goes into that conversation

303
00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:45,880
Speaker 1: of this men loneliness epidemic, which again we were like,

304
00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:48,920
Speaker 1: that's not really a thing that's everyone, but yet they

305
00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:51,440
Speaker 1: use that as a way of being like, oh, no,

306
00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:53,960
Speaker 1: this is women's fault that were lonely.

307
00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:59,800
Speaker 2: Yep, because their loneliness matters. But waitman's loneliness does not.

308
00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:03,280
Speaker 1: As we work harder at it because we actually make friends.

309
00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:12,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, okay, all of that being said, religion is

310
00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:16,159
Speaker 3: still a huge part of this conversation here in the

311
00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:18,560
Speaker 3: US and around the world, and I know we're going

312
00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:21,160
Speaker 3: to get into that in a minute. This is really

313
00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:23,520
Speaker 3: interesting to me because this is where I see these

314
00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:27,720
Speaker 3: huge divides in reporting on gen Z. So there has

315
00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:30,560
Speaker 3: been a rise of Catholicism in gen Z. There was

316
00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:34,560
Speaker 3: recently a whole article about pop Leo and how popular he.

317
00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:36,560
Speaker 2: Was and all of this with gen Z.

318
00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:41,000
Speaker 3: However, gen Z is also more likely to be secular,

319
00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:44,840
Speaker 3: like no religion, So we've got both of those things

320
00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:48,680
Speaker 3: going on. I wonder, since a lot of the religious

321
00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:52,480
Speaker 3: part of saving yourself for a marriage and now we

322
00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:54,800
Speaker 3: have people getting married later in life, if they're getting

323
00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:57,879
Speaker 3: married at all, if that's a piece of this, and

324
00:17:57,920 --> 00:17:59,840
Speaker 3: perhaps on the flip side of that, rejecting the idea

325
00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:04,000
Speaker 3: of genity being you know, possession in a very heteronormative sense,

326
00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:07,000
Speaker 3: which is what it's been historically. And this led me

327
00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:12,879
Speaker 3: to a forum where people were basically saying virginity is

328
00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:15,280
Speaker 3: a construct of the patriarchy.

329
00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:18,199
Speaker 2: It shouldn't even be a thing, like scientifically, it's not

330
00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:21,480
Speaker 2: a thing. And then one dude popped in he was.

331
00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:25,440
Speaker 3: Like, you feminists blame patriarchy for everything.

332
00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:28,680
Speaker 2: It is not patriarchy. It is a thing.

333
00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:33,320
Speaker 1: So let me a man tell you you are completely wrong.

334
00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:36,639
Speaker 1: Yes you're talking about science, but I'm telling you this

335
00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:37,879
Speaker 1: is hard of my feelings.

336
00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:42,080
Speaker 3: You're wrong, Yes, yes, but I wonder if that's like

337
00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:44,080
Speaker 3: also a piece of it because people are more like

338
00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:46,800
Speaker 3: aware of this.

339
00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:49,760
Speaker 2: It's just even a thing. I don't know right.

340
00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:54,800
Speaker 3: Interestingly, there has been both a rise in desire for

341
00:18:54,920 --> 00:19:00,480
Speaker 3: monogamy and a desire for ethical nonminogamy, which illustrates again

342
00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:03,640
Speaker 3: those pretty big divisions in gen Z because yeah, we're

343
00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:06,919
Speaker 3: still talking about gen zh no community or generation as

344
00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:09,920
Speaker 3: a monolith obviously, but it's really interesting how stark these

345
00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:12,280
Speaker 3: differences are, and a lot of what we're going to

346
00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:15,399
Speaker 3: talk about, and that is always a lot of this

347
00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:20,280
Speaker 3: depends on self reporting, so keep that in mind, and

348
00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:22,840
Speaker 3: also keep in mind being in an ethically non monogamous

349
00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:25,240
Speaker 3: relationship does not equate to more or any sex. A

350
00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:27,239
Speaker 3: lot of people think it does because they don't understand it,

351
00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:29,399
Speaker 3: but right, yeah, it doesn't.

352
00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:32,200
Speaker 1: Again, that's kind of that conversation again when we're talking

353
00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:35,040
Speaker 1: about gen z's like you being creepy. This is not

354
00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:38,880
Speaker 1: about sex, this is about relationships or something along those lines.

355
00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:41,520
Speaker 1: I think it's also that say level of like new

356
00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:45,520
Speaker 1: types of relationships have become open lavender marriages of the

357
00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:48,760
Speaker 1: best friend, like platonic marriages being in existence and being

358
00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:50,440
Speaker 1: like this is actually okay because we take care of

359
00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:53,800
Speaker 1: each other, we are a relationship and we communicate, which

360
00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:56,639
Speaker 1: again I feel it maybe gen Z is learning to

361
00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:59,160
Speaker 1: communicate better. But then we do again have that other

362
00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:01,440
Speaker 1: side where they here the minisphere being like, oh we

363
00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:04,080
Speaker 1: had to go about the alpha thinking and men aren't

364
00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:06,600
Speaker 1: supposed to be with one woman to have a conversation,

365
00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:08,119
Speaker 1: which I've been hearing more and more about.

366
00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:14,560
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, it's like I've been saying, I'm seeing these

367
00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:21,119
Speaker 3: really different viewpoints that are pretty big like every like

368
00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:24,639
Speaker 3: I said, every generation, every community has these different viewpoints.

369
00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:27,359
Speaker 3: But it's kind of interesting how opposite a lot of

370
00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:32,480
Speaker 3: these bigger ones are. All that being said gen Z is, yeah,

371
00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:36,280
Speaker 3: they're far less strict definitions of gender and what constitutes

372
00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:39,040
Speaker 3: sex and more likely to identify as queer and be

373
00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:42,080
Speaker 3: exposed to all these identities and relationships that might not

374
00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:45,040
Speaker 3: center sex. So here's a quote from a Guardian article

375
00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:48,880
Speaker 3: titled A Generation of virgins is leading America's next sexual revolution.

376
00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:52,720
Speaker 3: Sexually progressive young people tend to take a more inclusive

377
00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:55,960
Speaker 3: view of sex. Take, for example, losing your virginity, which

378
00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:58,560
Speaker 3: is traditionally defined as having penis and vagina sex for

379
00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:02,000
Speaker 3: the first time. Although gen Z interviewees usually said they

380
00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:05,000
Speaker 3: had once believed in that definition, many also said their

381
00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:08,359
Speaker 3: views evolved as they got older. Frequently their realization of

382
00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:12,120
Speaker 3: their own queerness or their interactions with LGBTQ plus peers

383
00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:15,560
Speaker 3: had led them to reassess how they saw sex. And

384
00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:17,000
Speaker 3: we're going to talk about this more, but that's what

385
00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:20,960
Speaker 3: I thought too, living your virginity. Virginity is also a

386
00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:23,159
Speaker 3: term they are less likely to use at all and

387
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:29,600
Speaker 3: unless prompted. So, yes, there's a lot, a lot going

388
00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:31,000
Speaker 3: on here, a lot to unpack.

389
00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:33,639
Speaker 1: There is what were you taught when it came to

390
00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:36,359
Speaker 1: sex and purity growing up, Annie, Because I know I

391
00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:38,600
Speaker 1: think you and I have different different.

392
00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:44,119
Speaker 3: Perspectives, Yes, yes, and you will have to share yours

393
00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:47,680
Speaker 3: to showcase that. But it wasn't something that was taught

394
00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:50,680
Speaker 3: in my house. Really, it wasn't that big a deal.

395
00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:55,199
Speaker 3: When I my dad tried to sit me down to

396
00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:57,000
Speaker 3: have the like sex talk. I was in eighth grade,

397
00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:00,640
Speaker 3: and I said, you're far too late, which unfortunately fortunately

398
00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:04,000
Speaker 3: was true because I'm probably learning from like my friends

399
00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:08,680
Speaker 3: and encyclopedia. I looked it up, and uh, TV shows

400
00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:10,879
Speaker 3: and fan fiction was not a good place to get here.

401
00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:15,880
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, it sounded awful because when you scientifically explain it,

402
00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:17,919
Speaker 3: it sounds terrible.

403
00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:21,680
Speaker 1: Fanizing about this, you're like, what is happening?

404
00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:25,200
Speaker 2: No, no, but yeah I didn't.

405
00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:29,479
Speaker 3: I did absorb, but like because I was religious for

406
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:33,800
Speaker 3: a short time, but a very intense short time. Uh,

407
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:37,040
Speaker 3: I don't think I ever put together though, Like Eve

408
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:41,000
Speaker 3: was bad because she maybe metaphorically had sex.

409
00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:41,800
Speaker 2: I don't know.

410
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:43,639
Speaker 3: I just put to bet she was a woman and

411
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:46,080
Speaker 3: that was bad. But I absorbed a lot of it

412
00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:50,919
Speaker 3: from my friends, and my friends had these ideas, and

413
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:54,280
Speaker 3: I definitely had the idea that, you know, like, the

414
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:56,600
Speaker 3: first time you have sex is going to be wonderful

415
00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:59,560
Speaker 3: and perfect and it has to be or else.

416
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:03,040
Speaker 2: Which is it's not true and very damaging. Also on

417
00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:04,800
Speaker 2: the other hand, though, I had the idea that would

418
00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:07,199
Speaker 2: hurt a lot, and the whole virgin's blood thing, like

419
00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:12,040
Speaker 2: if you didn't believe you weren't a virgin. But then my.

420
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:17,000
Speaker 3: Older brother was the cause of a lot of tension.

421
00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:20,479
Speaker 3: He and my dad didn't get along, and he was

422
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:26,760
Speaker 3: four years older than me, and so he was he

423
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:28,920
Speaker 3: was with girls a lot, and I saw I did

424
00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:30,600
Speaker 3: not want to be like him, so I sort of

425
00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:33,840
Speaker 3: veered hard away from that and.

426
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:36,520
Speaker 2: Was probably really judgmental. Oh, I was definitely really judgmental.

427
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:42,400
Speaker 3: But I also will say I did think that this

428
00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:46,520
Speaker 3: penis and vagina thing was how you lost your virginity,

429
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:51,120
Speaker 3: and that's very damaging when you're sexually assaulted when you're young,

430
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:54,040
Speaker 3: which I was. And I would tell myself like, well,

431
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:57,119
Speaker 3: if he's my boyfriend, that's not bad, right, which is

432
00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:59,439
Speaker 3: kind of the same thing, like if you get married

433
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:03,640
Speaker 3: to hurt, rape like those things, and that. I had

434
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:07,159
Speaker 3: a lot of friends that believed in that damaged goods things,

435
00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:08,639
Speaker 3: and I would hear them talking about that and be like,

436
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:11,000
Speaker 3: I can never tell them. I'll never tell them what's

437
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:15,240
Speaker 3: going on here. And then you know, in my adult life,

438
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:18,639
Speaker 3: my therapist was like, you know, you can differentiate between

439
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:22,160
Speaker 3: sex and rape, and it's not the same thing. Interestingly,

440
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:27,840
Speaker 3: there is a huge historical back and forth about if

441
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:30,399
Speaker 3: a woman has been raped, is she still a virgin?

442
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:34,679
Speaker 3: And usually the case has been yes, because it's taking

443
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 3: a this theft of the father's property in a lot

444
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 3: of old religious texts. But now it seems to be

445
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:43,320
Speaker 3: fearing away from.

446
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:45,760
Speaker 2: That in a lot of ways. Right now.

447
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 1: There's so much to that because yeah, like if we

448
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:50,880
Speaker 1: took it like biblically and we took about like property

449
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:55,919
Speaker 1: and we talk about promised because like in consummating a marriage,

450
00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:58,360
Speaker 1: it was the marriage, which is why annulling the kind

451
00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:01,520
Speaker 1: of still exists, I guess it, which is like such

452
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:03,159
Speaker 1: an outdated practice in so many ways. There are so

453
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:04,160
Speaker 1: many things that we can.

454
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:04,600
Speaker 2: Talk about with that.

455
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:07,960
Speaker 1: But yeah, like my I was a judgmental one. I

456
00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 1: was such an hel Like I have nothing but shame

457
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:14,160
Speaker 1: on that, because I also was pretty traumatized as a kid,

458
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:18,119
Speaker 1: coming from a very bad background of you know, like

459
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:21,159
Speaker 1: what is this how how I was early sexualized and

460
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:23,200
Speaker 1: like there's so many things that I needed to stay

461
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 1: up with you four for a young age, and instead

462
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:27,800
Speaker 1: of being able to get therapy, I just got hushed

463
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 1: and ashamed. I'm like that was drall response. You probably

464
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:34,280
Speaker 1: should have addressed that now, as like when I became

465
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:36,200
Speaker 1: a social worker, I was like, oh, yeah, okay, these

466
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:38,480
Speaker 1: are signs. And then when no one looked at this.

467
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,640
Speaker 1: But all of that to say, with that, I came

468
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:44,360
Speaker 1: in full circle of being like, I'm forgiven it wasn't

469
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:47,480
Speaker 1: my fault, so therefore I can judge others. And again,

470
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:49,240
Speaker 1: I think we talked about this previously when I talked

471
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:51,200
Speaker 1: about the fact that you know, a friend and I

472
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:53,359
Speaker 1: fell apart because she was in high school. I was

473
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:54,879
Speaker 1: in middle school, and she was trying to tell me

474
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:58,200
Speaker 1: how wonderful sex was, which I feel like, as great

475
00:25:58,200 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 1: as it may have been, it was more of a

476
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,760
Speaker 1: conversation trying to convince herself. But that did not lead

477
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:05,880
Speaker 1: to the point of like, instead of just being like, okay, cool,

478
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:07,480
Speaker 1: moving on, I had to shame her a little bit,

479
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:09,280
Speaker 1: which I'm like, no, wonder, we're not friends. I didn't

480
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:11,159
Speaker 1: like you, you didn't like me, and we were bad friends.

481
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,280
Speaker 1: I was a bad friend. But it really did come

482
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:16,399
Speaker 1: into that trap. And because I had some way with words,

483
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 1: and because I was looking at like seminary books and

484
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:21,920
Speaker 1: talking about things like I Kiss stading, Goodbye, passionate parody,

485
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 1: which I'm gonna mention it a little bit later, books

486
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:27,679
Speaker 1: like that really taught me flowery words about this romantic

487
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:32,120
Speaker 1: version of virginity, which is both that I really thought

488
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 1: I had a handle on it. This teen preteen girl

489
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,680
Speaker 1: who had too much trauma in her life was like, yeah, yeah, yeah,

490
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:39,680
Speaker 1: this is what this is, and this is why it's holy,

491
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:41,960
Speaker 1: and this is why it needs to be waited to marriage,

492
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:44,240
Speaker 1: and when I'm married, it's gonna be amazing. And then

493
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:46,879
Speaker 1: like watching things fall apart because not to tell other

494
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:49,440
Speaker 1: people's stories, but other people who were in the same

495
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:52,400
Speaker 1: background as myself who believed this got married very young

496
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:55,240
Speaker 1: because they were scared of sitting and then they were

497
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 1: in awful, awful relationships and gone through a lot of

498
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:01,919
Speaker 1: trauma on that end. So for me, like what I

499
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:05,119
Speaker 1: had learned, And I don't think it was necessarily my

500
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 1: parents that taught me this. It was more shame factor

501
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:12,160
Speaker 1: would like, learn from my mistakes, have a conversation, and

502
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:16,239
Speaker 1: they wouldn't necessarily like shame me, shame me, but it

503
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:20,439
Speaker 1: was still like taboo. So I as much as that

504
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:22,639
Speaker 1: culture that I did grow up and we were told

505
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:24,679
Speaker 1: this is sin and looking at women as sin. So

506
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,399
Speaker 1: I was told that my parents didn't like force that

507
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 1: odd to me, Like there was no shaming, Like if

508
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:32,199
Speaker 1: I had had sex at a young age, if I

509
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:35,200
Speaker 1: had gotten pregnant at a young age, I absolutely believe

510
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:36,600
Speaker 1: my mother would have been like, oh, I will help you,

511
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,200
Speaker 1: we got this, You're fine, You're loved. All these things.

512
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 1: They may have been disappointed, there may have been fights,

513
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:42,720
Speaker 1: but I would have not been kicked out or any

514
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:45,800
Speaker 1: of those situations. So it was an odd like level

515
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:47,639
Speaker 1: of superiority for me.

516
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:53,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's interesting because we've talked about this before

517
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:55,639
Speaker 3: because you and I are coming at it from very

518
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:59,520
Speaker 3: different ways. But there was a point where we were

519
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 3: all my friend group was all like boys or gross

520
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:04,399
Speaker 3: were never going to get into that. And then I

521
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 3: felt like everybody in my friend group who were they

522
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:11,399
Speaker 3: were almost all very religious, and so there was this

523
00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:15,679
Speaker 3: kind of moral religious aspect to it became really interested

524
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 3: in boys, and then I didn't, and so I was

525
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 3: like lying and pretending and.

526
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 2: Like, oh god, yeah, I went to sex the whole time.

527
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:24,719
Speaker 3: You know, And I know in your experience, like it

528
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:26,879
Speaker 3: was very different, but for me, I feel like it was,

529
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:28,879
Speaker 3: at least in my friend group, it was more of.

530
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:29,680
Speaker 2: A shameful thing.

531
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:33,959
Speaker 3: If you weren't into it if you weren't having sex,

532
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 3: And so it became where I was like the odd

533
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 3: person out and just trying to pretend. But that sort

534
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 3: of like it's a shift in adolescence where it went

535
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 3: from never and my religion tells me so too, Well, what.

536
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 2: About that you haven't been with anybody? What's wrong with you?

537
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 3: Right?

538
00:28:57,320 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 1: I don't, I think, and I will say this could

539
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:02,720
Speaker 1: have been just me. Again, I was an oddball because

540
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 1: as people would tell me they were doing things, I

541
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 1: tried not to be judgmental, but they knew I was judging.

542
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 1: I'm such a jerk, Like I was not a good

543
00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:13,680
Speaker 1: friend because like even through college I was that exact

544
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:16,640
Speaker 1: same way. Oh, it was really puritanical in every bit

545
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 1: of the way if my friends, because my high school

546
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:20,760
Speaker 1: friends and I kind of like shifted away from each

547
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:22,960
Speaker 1: other that way, and it was an obvious shift. I

548
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 1: kind of talked about the story in a little bit

549
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 1: my judgments, but like for me, it was a point

550
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:31,720
Speaker 1: of pride. Also later on as an adult, I could

551
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 1: admit it was my trauma. It was like something that

552
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:37,320
Speaker 1: I had to cling to because I was so petrified

553
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 1: of relationships in general because of my attachment problems. But

554
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 1: there's it's an odd like interaction to the point that

555
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:46,520
Speaker 1: I think my parents were annoyed with me once again.

556
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 1: They were annoyed with me by like being like overly

557
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 1: judge teenage self in this level and being like, no,

558
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:55,720
Speaker 1: this is the way, this is what Jesus would want

559
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 1: from me, blah blah blah. But I still absolutely felt

560
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:00,480
Speaker 1: like I needed to be married and have children and

561
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:04,680
Speaker 1: all these things. But yet I was so prudish, as

562
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 1: I guess it could be in that level and judgmental

563
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 1: about these relationships if not, if it wasn't done perfectly.

564
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 1: And by the way, when I tell you, I know

565
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 1: we talked about this before, about the courting thing. Legitimately

566
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 1: believe this bullshit. Legitimately the first day you had to

567
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 1: be with people you had asked permission for dating. The

568
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 1: shame factor is high in that level of like what

569
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:32,680
Speaker 1: was I thinking? Why couldn't I just be a normal kid?

570
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 1: But so yeah, that definitely like a different experience in general.

571
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:39,280
Speaker 1: And so for me, who was on such a deep

572
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 1: end to hear that this might be coming back is

573
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 1: petrified any petrifying, I will say, I have not heard

574
00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 1: of this term because you were talking about the generation

575
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 1: of versions. The online term that I have that has

576
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 1: popped into my scope is pure teens. So p U

577
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 1: R I T E E N S. So this would

578
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 1: have been a few years ago, because we know we're

579
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:14,959
Speaker 1: there in twenties.

580
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:15,160
Speaker 2: Now.

581
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 1: I'm not calling new teens y'all. I know you're adults.

582
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 1: Chunk of you are adults gen z or so don't

583
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 1: don't get that at me. I also have seeing them

584
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 1: referred to as zoomers.

585
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:27,200
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you zoom no.

586
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:30,480
Speaker 1: Because they are a combination of gen Z but with

587
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:32,240
Speaker 1: boomer ideals.

588
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 2: Okay, that makes sense, say you zoom. I don't know.

589
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 1: I guess that makes sense.

590
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:39,840
Speaker 2: That makes sense.

591
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 1: Maybe I'm wrong. My assumpsuit was because it was a

592
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 1: combination I think. I mean, I did read it being

593
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 1: a boomer but edgen Z level.

594
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 2: Okay. They also did use a lot of zoom during

595
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 2: the pandemic, so it's true.

596
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:55,200
Speaker 1: So did we so do we all? So many other

597
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:58,080
Speaker 1: things Marco Polo all those things anyway, So this is

598
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 1: a term that sprouted in twenty twenty as I pushback

599
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:04,720
Speaker 1: against millennials and the kind of like hookup cultures that

600
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 1: we were like, hey, let's do this, you know again

601
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 1: for the Sex and the City fans, or like, yeah,

602
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:12,240
Speaker 1: this is lifestyle. This is the goal to be a

603
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:17,800
Speaker 1: Samantha right right, which still means Joey our resident gen

604
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 1: Zer was like, I love this show. So maybe not again,

605
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 1: not all not all gens no, but no.

606
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 2: Yeah.

607
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:28,160
Speaker 1: So this is from a twenty twenty one Rolling Stone

608
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 1: an article in which they're talking about the Puritans and

609
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 1: whether or not they're coming back, and they said, this

610
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 1: is essentially what is going on in the conversations around purreteens,

611
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:39,200
Speaker 1: a phrase used to describe a theoretical type of extremely

612
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 1: online youth that is incensed by any display of sexuality

613
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 1: on the Internet. So it is specific to the Internet,

614
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 1: which we have talked many a times with Bridget about

615
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 1: how when we see these, even though they sound like

616
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 1: it's all the population, it is oftentimes not. It is

617
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 1: a niche group that just happens to be very, very loud,

618
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 1: and then it's big enough that my articles from like

619
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:04,880
Speaker 1: GQ also had to talk about it and they said

620
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 1: the prudish label has been stuck to gen Z many

621
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 1: times in recent years. Now there's this pe Georgia of

622
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 1: new Twitter term Puritan meaning an online child who proactively

623
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 1: demands people curtail behavior they interpret as sexually suggestive, which

624
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 1: is what they got from the Urban Dictionary. So this

625
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:23,720
Speaker 1: was like a thing like they had a whole movement.

626
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:27,280
Speaker 1: They went after everyone and anyone being like, a aa,

627
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 1: calm down. You're being a little over the top with

628
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:34,720
Speaker 1: this conversation. So it kind of opened up a lot

629
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:37,440
Speaker 1: of rhetoric like who are these teenagers? Why are they

630
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:40,880
Speaker 1: so upset about this. It's interesting because as you were

631
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:43,600
Speaker 1: talking about the LGBTQ, like the fact that the gen

632
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:46,520
Speaker 1: Zers are more accepting of the non binary of this,

633
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,680
Speaker 1: they are also like but yet calmed down. I say

634
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 1: this in the Puritans rhetoric, so it's not necessarily everyone.

635
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 1: We're not saying that about like again our gen z

636
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 1: or they are wonderful and they're like, nah, you or

637
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 1: yout's let's enjoy these things type of conversation. But it

638
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:08,319
Speaker 1: kind of, like I guess, opened up into interpretation of

639
00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 1: you're doing too much, you're being creepy, I need you

640
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:16,760
Speaker 1: to calm down. I don't know why I keep saying creepy,

641
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 1: but it's true. But all of that is say so

642
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:23,439
Speaker 1: going back to that rolling Stone article they literally write.

643
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 1: It's unclear where exactly the term originated, but its first

644
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:30,360
Speaker 1: use again on Twitter or reply to a March viral

645
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 1: tweet that is a screen grab of a DM. In

646
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:35,440
Speaker 1: the DM, an anonymous fifteen year old chies the recipient

647
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 1: for quote liking some really questionable stuff, including quote horny

648
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:43,360
Speaker 1: Hannibal tweets, due to their issues with a fandom surrounding

649
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:45,840
Speaker 1: the show Hannibal. If we're going to come back to

650
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:48,279
Speaker 1: this because I know, I know you got thoughts. I

651
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:49,839
Speaker 1: know you got thoughts, so we're going to come back

652
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 1: to that. But this is kind of where it starts.

653
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 1: It jumps into like, oh, calm down, you're doing too

654
00:34:55,640 --> 00:35:00,080
Speaker 1: much thirsting. And if nothing else, TikTok is all about thirsting.

655
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:03,200
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.

656
00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 3: And there's a couple of things that I pop up

657
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:10,200
Speaker 3: when you say this. One is I didn't grow up

658
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:14,120
Speaker 3: with all of this online content, So I'm not sure

659
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:16,600
Speaker 3: how I would have reacted when I was fifteen if

660
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 3: I had seen I got. I read a lot of

661
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:20,880
Speaker 3: fan fiction. I had read some stuff, but if it

662
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:24,600
Speaker 3: was like everywhere you know, and you, as a person

663
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:29,640
Speaker 3: on the internet, couldn't escape it necessarily, I'm not sure

664
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 3: how I would react. The other thing is I've talked

665
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:39,799
Speaker 3: about this as being an intersectional feminist as person is

666
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 3: this is fascinating to me of the because we've talked

667
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 3: about how we fought so hard for it to get

668
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 3: away from slut shaming and like sexual liberation and sex positivity.

669
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 3: But also at the same time kind of the thing

670
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 3: that got hurt was, well, what about women who don't

671
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:57,360
Speaker 3: want to have sex or people who don't want to

672
00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:01,680
Speaker 3: have sex? Right, that doesn't mean that or like conservative

673
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 3: proods or whatever, something's wrong with them.

674
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 2: I did read that a lot of gen z.

675
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:10,439
Speaker 3: It's not sex negativity for a lot of them, it's

676
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:13,920
Speaker 3: just like it's sex positivity, but they just don't want it.

677
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 3: In this case, this sounds like sex negativity. But you know,

678
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:22,040
Speaker 3: in general, as we're gonna keep making the point, it's

679
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:23,600
Speaker 3: not everybody that thinks.

680
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 1: Is it's not. So I think also we have to

681
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:29,719
Speaker 1: come back to the point about there could be a

682
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 1: link in how a lot of millennials who were the

683
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:36,720
Speaker 1: first to be on social media to understand going viral,

684
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 1: to understand making money and started using their kids who

685
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:41,759
Speaker 1: are the gen z ers. A lot of the gen

686
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:45,120
Speaker 1: xers who are jumping in realizing this could be a thing,

687
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 1: and then having a lot of our gen Z kids,

688
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:51,560
Speaker 1: maybe younger younger gen Z youth, with our younger younger

689
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:54,239
Speaker 1: millennials being always in front of the camera, and we

690
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:56,919
Speaker 1: know what happens or in front of social media being

691
00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:59,879
Speaker 1: posted all the time. We know what happens in those

692
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:02,839
Speaker 1: and it's not great spaces, to the point that laws

693
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:04,600
Speaker 1: are trying to be coming into place and be like,

694
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:06,719
Speaker 1: we need to protect the kids a little better from

695
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:09,960
Speaker 1: their own parents sometimes. And so that could be a

696
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 1: part of this as well, like when we talk about

697
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:15,479
Speaker 1: that's creepy because they understand that they've had that since

698
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:18,799
Speaker 1: maybe infancy, who knows. But there was another point to this,

699
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,080
Speaker 1: and I think it has to be addressed. It has

700
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:24,200
Speaker 1: a little to do with kink shaming, which is kind

701
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 1: of like, to me, came out of left field, but

702
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:27,760
Speaker 1: I guess if you're a part of the queer community,

703
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:31,560
Speaker 1: this makes more sense. And I apologize I'm not necessarily

704
00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:33,400
Speaker 1: in that space. I read a lot of those spaces,

705
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:35,200
Speaker 1: but I'm not necessarily in that space, so I'm not

706
00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:38,040
Speaker 1: always aware, but now I am. But back to that

707
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:42,239
Speaker 1: GQ article, they have this they say, young Queritans have

708
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:46,640
Speaker 1: recently been seen on social media moralizing about large age

709
00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 1: gaps in adult relationships and partaking in the perennial no

710
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 1: kink at Pride debate, So this was a specific one.

711
00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:57,560
Speaker 1: Here I wrote hearing gen Z talking about not wanting

712
00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 1: to see kink at Pride is giving care and vibes

713
00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 1: tweeted thirty five year old RuPaul drag race winner Bob

714
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:05,719
Speaker 1: the Drag Queen last month. So this is a while

715
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:09,360
Speaker 1: ago though twenty twenty one, y'all an aging internet twink

716
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 1: at not in one CEO. You just made all the

717
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:17,600
Speaker 1: face and he just made it me for saying that.

718
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:20,120
Speaker 1: It's that I don't know what's happening. But the b

719
00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:22,480
Speaker 1: only fanfing is not a good thing anyway. Birth a

720
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:25,799
Speaker 1: meme about gen Z being such hysterical kill joys they'd

721
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:29,680
Speaker 1: call the cops upon seeing a jockstrap. Uh, So this

722
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:32,920
Speaker 1: was a thing and was a big debate online once

723
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:36,280
Speaker 1: again online in which they were like, they're king shaming,

724
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:38,360
Speaker 1: no King get Pride. They really felt like this was

725
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:42,799
Speaker 1: overreaching and being a part of a problem. Again, it

726
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:45,880
Speaker 1: says uh from a Junkie dot com article, they write,

727
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:49,360
Speaker 1: when this term first became popularized in the early twenty twenties.

728
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:52,960
Speaker 1: It was a controversial one. It arose when queerteens called

729
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:55,279
Speaker 1: for a no kink at Pride because this would make

730
00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:58,400
Speaker 1: it unsafe for them as miners. And then this was

731
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:02,200
Speaker 1: met with criticism from again older members of the LGBTQI

732
00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:05,600
Speaker 1: plus community, who pointed out the irony of stifling queer

733
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:09,520
Speaker 1: sexual expression at Pride just because some people were uncomfortable.

734
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:13,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's a whole big thing.

735
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:15,640
Speaker 1: It seems to be a big debate in the queer

736
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:16,759
Speaker 1: community specifically.

737
00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:21,759
Speaker 3: It is, and unfortunately, as with so many things, it

738
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:26,720
Speaker 3: got politicized. We talked about this briefly in our Pride

739
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:32,279
Speaker 3: Month update of twenty twenty five. Where conservatives there's a

740
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:36,360
Speaker 3: group of conservatives gay people who from what I understand

741
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 3: are largely white men, but even conservatives in Donald Trump's

742
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:46,840
Speaker 3: conservative gay men in Donald Trump's administration have really pushed

743
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:47,239
Speaker 3: forward this.

744
00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:48,479
Speaker 2: Idea of the normal gay.

745
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:52,120
Speaker 3: And they were during the election and they were saying,

746
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:55,160
Speaker 3: you know, we can win this election with the normal gay.

747
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:59,840
Speaker 3: And their definition of the normal gay is quite comical

748
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:01,920
Speaker 3: that it's like they don't dye their hair and they

749
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:04,359
Speaker 3: don't pierce their ears, but a part of it was

750
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:11,480
Speaker 3: the kink shaming, and they, I think, unfortunately, again, conservatives

751
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:13,400
Speaker 3: are really good at this. I think they knew this

752
00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:16,480
Speaker 3: was a conversation that was happening online and they jumped

753
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:20,240
Speaker 3: in and instead of having like a good faith argument,

754
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:23,240
Speaker 3: they were just like, yeah, no, can't get pride.

755
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:24,719
Speaker 2: But they were just.

756
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:27,480
Speaker 3: Really trying to get some kind of political clout in

757
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:29,600
Speaker 3: a space that they haven't had before.

758
00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:33,440
Speaker 1: Right, and you're not wrong. In fact, there's a conversation

759
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:37,000
Speaker 1: about is this just a bunch of misinformation or disinformation

760
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 1: being used to cause division or repackaging? And I kind

761
00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:43,840
Speaker 1: of liked that term repackaging in this conversation because I

762
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:47,600
Speaker 1: think that's what the Conservative riot has done really well,

763
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:50,560
Speaker 1: is taking conservative ideas that people were like, oh, this

764
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:52,400
Speaker 1: is bad, like we don't want to kill women, we

765
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:54,920
Speaker 1: don't want these things, so we're going to repackage these things.

766
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:57,920
Speaker 1: We're not saying transmit or all these things, but we're

767
00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:00,200
Speaker 1: going to repackage it saying they're not being fair, like

768
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:02,880
Speaker 1: all these things trans women are not allowed for women.

769
00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:06,319
Speaker 1: And I'd say this very sarcastically to being their own

770
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:09,720
Speaker 1: safe circle, because you know, we're really about being safe

771
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:13,920
Speaker 1: and giving space. They're great at repackaging this conversation, and

772
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:15,960
Speaker 1: I think it was interesting because going back to that

773
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:20,080
Speaker 1: Rolling Stones article they said they're bad actors again about

774
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:23,400
Speaker 1: this divide. They say, this discourse is not entirely organic.

775
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:26,840
Speaker 1: Much of it is pushed by far right bad actors

776
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:31,239
Speaker 1: attempting to promote homophobic talking points. It's also not new

777
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:34,560
Speaker 1: like at all. There's always been discussions of how family

778
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:37,440
Speaker 1: friendly the Pride parade should be, or when I was

779
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:40,719
Speaker 1: a little baby gay this is the writer, whether drag

780
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:43,480
Speaker 1: queens should be on floats, and if we were flaunting

781
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:47,040
Speaker 1: our sexuality. One mail author and activist Leo Herrera told

782
00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:50,080
Speaker 1: me it tends to come from the more corporate conservative side,

783
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:53,440
Speaker 1: who's really concerned we are presenting stereotypes or that we

784
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:56,360
Speaker 1: won't be accepted or it'll cost us funding or press.

785
00:41:56,680 --> 00:42:00,480
Speaker 1: It's the same conversation repackaged. So this this is a

786
00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:03,560
Speaker 1: bigger conversation, whether it's for political gain or where there's

787
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:07,840
Speaker 1: for corporate greed. So I think that's something that we

788
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:11,400
Speaker 1: have to cling to and look at. And again, this

789
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:13,400
Speaker 1: whole kink shaming, I'm sure there are those are like

790
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:15,400
Speaker 1: I am really uncomfortable. I don't need to see this.

791
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:17,440
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna lie. There are a few moments that

792
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:21,000
Speaker 1: I'm really uncomfortable. I'm more uncomfortable as a mid forties

793
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:23,440
Speaker 1: woman watching teenagers kids because I'm like, I shouldn't be

794
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:26,560
Speaker 1: watching this, not because I find it attractive. I'm just like,

795
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:31,399
Speaker 1: this does feel creepy. I'm gonna turn the channel. Good

796
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:33,160
Speaker 1: on you, you do you, but I should not be

797
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:35,359
Speaker 1: the one watching this. Also the same as like a

798
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:37,720
Speaker 1: mid forty year old if I like a new group

799
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:39,080
Speaker 1: and I'm like, how young are you?

800
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:39,359
Speaker 3: Oh?

801
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:41,520
Speaker 1: Your babies? Like those are the thoughts that I have

802
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:43,720
Speaker 1: to think through when they're trying to do thirst traps.

803
00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:48,359
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm not watching this. This feels creepy. That

804
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:50,920
Speaker 1: type of conversation more so than anything else other than

805
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:52,920
Speaker 1: like not that you can't be that way or you

806
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:56,360
Speaker 1: can't do it as an adult free will. I should

807
00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:59,640
Speaker 1: not be here going oh baby, call me no, you

808
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:01,799
Speaker 1: know what I mean saying so like those those are

809
00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 1: the conversations that we have now, and we'll say with

810
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:10,120
Speaker 1: terms like puritans floating around. I feel like, as we

811
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:12,760
Speaker 1: talked about earlier, as you mentioned earlier, this is less

812
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:18,160
Speaker 1: religious reasoning with this like backtracking of sexuality and trying

813
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:22,600
Speaker 1: to not I guess, but I guess this is hard

814
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:25,200
Speaker 1: to differentiate when we talk about giving your virginity and

815
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:28,000
Speaker 1: I'm putting this in quotes or like having sex for

816
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:31,080
Speaker 1: the first time and making it magical type of conversation

817
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:34,560
Speaker 1: that it's not necessarily about religious and more the idea

818
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:36,600
Speaker 1: of being sexually awakened than all these things that we

819
00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:39,800
Speaker 1: have really really we as a millennial, an older millennial,

820
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:42,479
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh yeay, finally we can be a little

821
00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:44,680
Speaker 1: more open. We can actually talk about knees and women

822
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:46,960
Speaker 1: can actually have good sex that they want it or

823
00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:49,480
Speaker 1: they don't have to. Like this. This is the autonomy

824
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:52,640
Speaker 1: that we've been seeking for so long, and that in

825
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:57,160
Speaker 1: itself has become cringe or creepy. That might be the

826
00:43:57,280 --> 00:44:02,040
Speaker 1: conversation everything we do, Saventa, That's what I'm told. I

827
00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:05,279
Speaker 1: like my cringe. I finally accepted it. Okay again, that

828
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:08,000
Speaker 1: could be my take. And the lifestyle seems to be

829
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:12,759
Speaker 1: a reverse to a wanting more quote unquote wholesome lifestyle.

830
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:15,120
Speaker 1: And I say this as in, like again on social

831
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 1: media instead of seeing like thirst traps and all of

832
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:21,160
Speaker 1: those things and having all of the sexy reasons such

833
00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:24,640
Speaker 1: having a dog video that you just want to watch

834
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:29,799
Speaker 1: or having like miniature green chef who can't speak. You

835
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:33,359
Speaker 1: know what, I little show. I'm gonna send you this.

836
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:36,759
Speaker 1: The show got canceled on Nickelodeon and everybody was in

837
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:38,720
Speaker 1: an uproar. I've never seen this show in my life,

838
00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:41,760
Speaker 1: but this tugged at my heartstrings. It was very wholesome.

839
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 2: Okay, all the.

840
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:46,080
Speaker 1: Same, but that's what they're looking for and less thirst strap,

841
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:53,800
Speaker 1: more wholesome, and it could be again all this again,

842
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:57,360
Speaker 1: we're talking more about social media. So when we're talking

843
00:44:57,400 --> 00:44:59,920
Speaker 1: about what are these ideas, what are these thoughts process?

844
00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:02,520
Speaker 1: This is coming straight from the idea of what social

845
00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:07,400
Speaker 1: media is offering and what we're seeing as a majority,

846
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:11,120
Speaker 1: when in actuality it's not the majority. Uh. And I

847
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:13,560
Speaker 1: know it seems like that's the opposite of what we

848
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:15,960
Speaker 1: knew as in like we are we grew up in

849
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 1: the age of Internet porn, like being wholly accessible, from

850
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:24,359
Speaker 1: hiding like having fun funny I guess stories of young

851
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:28,600
Speaker 1: boys hiding Playboy magazines under their beds or if you're

852
00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:30,920
Speaker 1: Robert from behind the bassards, he told me he had

853
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:34,040
Speaker 1: hidden away in the woods, which I'm like, what, why,

854
00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:37,000
Speaker 1: my gosh, how does it keep safe there?

855
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:39,000
Speaker 2: But you know what you do? You boo, you do you?

856
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:43,000
Speaker 1: But like from that age to having so much access

857
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:48,840
Speaker 1: on the internet that they're falling away from that that

858
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:51,239
Speaker 1: maybe again, like as you were talking about having too

859
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 1: much access and with that, one of the movements in

860
00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:59,120
Speaker 1: this timeframe, in this morality is the hashtag canceled porn

861
00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:05,919
Speaker 1: uh due to the correlation of porn culture to rape culture. Interesting, right,

862
00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:09,919
Speaker 1: So here's a little bit from a Medium article which

863
00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:13,000
Speaker 1: is titled a Prudish Generation Z and what it means,

864
00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:15,719
Speaker 1: and it's by Fuad Jihari. I really hope I said

865
00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:19,200
Speaker 1: it's right. They write pure teens were strongly correlated with

866
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:22,279
Speaker 1: the hashtag canceled poor movement as well, which believed that

867
00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:26,520
Speaker 1: pornography was inherently evil because it normalized unsavory things such

868
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:29,880
Speaker 1: as rape and misogyny and should thus be canceled. Almost

869
00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:33,320
Speaker 1: half of Generation Z viewers also want less sex on screen.

870
00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:36,240
Speaker 1: As founded by the University of California, Los Angeles Annual

871
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:39,800
Speaker 1: Teens and Screens Report done in twenty twenty three. Wholesome,

872
00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:44,120
Speaker 1: which had connotations to evangelical morality in the nineties has

873
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:48,320
Speaker 1: also become a Generation Z complement videos carrying the wholesome

874
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:50,160
Speaker 1: tag receiving more than one hundred and twenty five million

875
00:46:50,239 --> 00:46:53,640
Speaker 1: views on TikTok, while wholesome memes on x had three

876
00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:59,520
Speaker 1: million followers. So this level of correlation between internet porn

877
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:02,360
Speaker 1: and they're not wrong. There's so much in this conversation.

878
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:05,440
Speaker 1: We've talked about porn Hub, We've talked about revenge porn,

879
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:08,680
Speaker 1: all of those things that have been accessible and used

880
00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:10,000
Speaker 1: and not at all.

881
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:14,080
Speaker 2: Moderated, moderated or punished.

882
00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:17,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, any of those things. Nothing has been like,

883
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:20,640
Speaker 1: nothing is really being censored in any point to this

884
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:23,960
Speaker 1: level of like free speech. Of course, there's an opposite

885
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:25,520
Speaker 1: form to this, and we're going to talk about that

886
00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:29,160
Speaker 1: in a minute, but this level of accessibility has really

887
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:33,200
Speaker 1: getten to a reaching point that the gen Z community

888
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:35,880
Speaker 1: is like, we're done, we would rather have nothing to

889
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:37,200
Speaker 1: do with this, which.

890
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:46,160
Speaker 3: Makes sense, it does, and I'm very curious. I'm very curious.

891
00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:48,400
Speaker 3: We'll have to come back and look into this about

892
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:51,200
Speaker 3: the if there are any numbers about the gender breakdown

893
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:57,160
Speaker 3: of that, because I wonder if, for like men and boys.

894
00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:02,440
Speaker 3: This is like another reason women are ruining everything.

895
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:16,680
Speaker 4: Maybe Samantha those I keep bringing this up.

896
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:20,600
Speaker 3: I really loved the show Adolescence, which if you haven't

897
00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:22,520
Speaker 3: seen it, I'm not going to really go into it,

898
00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:26,400
Speaker 3: but basically there's a lot of stuff about the hemisphere

899
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:28,520
Speaker 3: and in cells, and at the end, the parents have

900
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:32,800
Speaker 3: this conversation where they're talking about, like, we didn't realize

901
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:36,719
Speaker 3: how dangerous that just the internet was or the computer was,

902
00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:39,080
Speaker 3: Like the kid in question will go into his room

903
00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:42,680
Speaker 3: and be online all the time, and they didn't realize

904
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:45,400
Speaker 3: it was dangerous and they wished that they had done more,

905
00:48:46,239 --> 00:48:48,040
Speaker 3: but they thought, you know, he's in his room, what

906
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:51,759
Speaker 3: could be the harm? And so I think that that's

907
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:56,680
Speaker 3: something also generationally, there's kind of a disconnect between what

908
00:48:56,760 --> 00:49:00,520
Speaker 3: older generations understand about being online versus what is actually

909
00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:03,960
Speaker 3: happening of being online right now right.

910
00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:06,319
Speaker 2: Oh mm hmm.

911
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:08,520
Speaker 1: I'm the disconnected one.

912
00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:10,319
Speaker 2: I mean I am too.

913
00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:13,560
Speaker 3: I think we were were more familiar than what was

914
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:16,799
Speaker 3: happening in this case and that team show, but it does.

915
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:19,160
Speaker 2: I mean, I did not grow up with this experience.

916
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:22,279
Speaker 1: I just didn't know. I, Like I said, I've talked

917
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:24,240
Speaker 1: about the fact that I've seen my nieces and nephew

918
00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:26,399
Speaker 1: who we get online and one of them would get

919
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:27,959
Speaker 1: bullied or I was afraid they were gonna get bullied,

920
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:29,600
Speaker 1: or they were getting too big, and I got scared

921
00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:33,160
Speaker 1: coming from like the Department Family Children's Services, and I'm

922
00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:36,040
Speaker 1: knowing and working in this film, I don't do this,

923
00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:38,120
Speaker 1: don't let them be on there. But it was new

924
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:41,160
Speaker 1: to us as well, and just seeing like, oh no,

925
00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:44,440
Speaker 1: this is bad some of the ramifications. So they've already

926
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:46,520
Speaker 1: a lot of the youth, I guess in the gen

927
00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:49,600
Speaker 1: Z community, I've already had to deal with their fair

928
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:50,680
Speaker 1: share of predators.

929
00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:55,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, And so to me, like it makes sense that

930
00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:59,399
Speaker 3: these movements are happening. I kind of hate that it

931
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:03,080
Speaker 3: has to be hand opening right are, because it's just

932
00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:04,240
Speaker 3: so there's.

933
00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:07,080
Speaker 2: A lot to talk about with so much of this right.

934
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:10,080
Speaker 1: Right there is there is there's so much and understanding

935
00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:13,640
Speaker 1: like why they're trying to push back, and this includes

936
00:50:13,719 --> 00:50:18,759
Speaker 1: like dating. So it's interesting because maybe the horrors of

937
00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:21,400
Speaker 1: dating and giving up on that or hearing the stories,

938
00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:23,319
Speaker 1: all the bad stories, like you and I've talked about

939
00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:26,720
Speaker 1: the fact that you know, hearing other people having dating

940
00:50:26,719 --> 00:50:29,600
Speaker 1: horror stories and we're like, yeah, we're good, we are good.

941
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:32,439
Speaker 1: Or as one article of that actually, that medium article

942
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:34,239
Speaker 1: that I was referring talks about it as in like

943
00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:38,799
Speaker 1: renegotiating boundaries and connections, so therefore opting out of relationships

944
00:50:38,840 --> 00:50:41,600
Speaker 1: in general. So this is what they write, the easy

945
00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:44,680
Speaker 1: access to not just pornography but other sexual content through

946
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:49,480
Speaker 1: dating applications and social media. Meanwhile, post three consequences, Generation

947
00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:52,520
Speaker 1: Z may feel a sense of sexual inadequacy when comparing

948
00:50:52,560 --> 00:50:55,320
Speaker 1: themselves to unrealistic standards. They have a surfeit of choice

949
00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:58,879
Speaker 1: that leads to a higher mental load and perhaps decision paralysis.

950
00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:00,719
Speaker 1: And the growth of the digital world means that there

951
00:51:00,719 --> 00:51:03,880
Speaker 1: are less and less opportunities to meet organically in the

952
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:07,000
Speaker 1: real world, as our interactions have to be mediated through

953
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:10,399
Speaker 1: platforms that channel and isolate in many different ways. All

954
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:13,040
Speaker 1: this means that the ways that the old generations have

955
00:51:13,080 --> 00:51:16,320
Speaker 1: connected with each other are no longer tenable by generations

956
00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:20,799
Speaker 1: the to follow. While most are actively renegotiating boundaries and connections,

957
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:24,400
Speaker 1: some have chosen to forego relationships altogether, given all the

958
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:28,240
Speaker 1: potential pitfalls they have to negotiate and the consequent mental

959
00:51:28,239 --> 00:51:32,960
Speaker 1: load they have to carry. So that's for real. That's

960
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:37,280
Speaker 1: that's honest in every way, and like trying to renegotiate

961
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:39,960
Speaker 1: the boundaries and trying to do so while at the

962
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:45,200
Speaker 1: same time not meeting because the amount of catfishing I've

963
00:51:45,239 --> 00:51:48,279
Speaker 1: seen in this conversation, what amount of stalking that has

964
00:51:48,360 --> 00:51:50,600
Speaker 1: happened through these types of apps, Like there are so

965
00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:53,600
Speaker 1: many things that are like, okays, this makes a lot

966
00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:55,480
Speaker 1: more sense. This makes the sense of like, I'd just

967
00:51:55,560 --> 00:51:59,959
Speaker 1: rather not And because they again they've already heard the horse,

968
00:52:00,320 --> 00:52:02,520
Speaker 1: and maybe it's the high rate of divorce that have

969
00:52:02,600 --> 00:52:07,400
Speaker 1: happened in our generation and our grandparents' generation whatever whatnot

970
00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:09,239
Speaker 1: that they're like, now we good.

971
00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:11,280
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.

972
00:52:11,560 --> 00:52:17,440
Speaker 3: Interestingly I read they're cooler with divorce. They're like, if

973
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:20,680
Speaker 3: we get divorced, so be it, whereas like our generation

974
00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:22,799
Speaker 3: was like, oh the failure.

975
00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:26,440
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah. So that's that's an interesting point of it too.

976
00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:29,239
Speaker 1: Like they would just rather not be a part of it,

977
00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:33,480
Speaker 1: because the fallout of divorce can be so long and

978
00:52:33,560 --> 00:52:36,560
Speaker 1: drawn out. There's children involved. In the likelihood of them

979
00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:38,880
Speaker 1: wanting children, it's been less and less or waiting, and

980
00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:42,360
Speaker 1: a lot of them are like under financially unable to

981
00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:44,600
Speaker 1: even be there, so they go and move back with parents,

982
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:47,960
Speaker 1: which is happening more and more understandably, like the gen

983
00:52:48,040 --> 00:52:51,520
Speaker 1: Zers as well as younger millennials have moved back in

984
00:52:51,680 --> 00:52:54,840
Speaker 1: because they cannot afford to live on the basis of

985
00:52:54,880 --> 00:52:56,919
Speaker 1: their pay. And it may be a full time job,

986
00:52:56,920 --> 00:52:59,200
Speaker 1: but making forty thousand dollars a year on your own

987
00:52:59,239 --> 00:53:01,840
Speaker 1: in an economy like this is not tangible.

988
00:53:02,120 --> 00:53:08,520
Speaker 3: No, no, like just by yourself, not even imagining children.

989
00:53:08,920 --> 00:53:11,160
Speaker 1: Again when I the only way I could have done

990
00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:15,520
Speaker 1: that was having three jobs at once. Yeah, it was odd,

991
00:53:15,600 --> 00:53:18,399
Speaker 1: but again, so there's a lot. And so if you're

992
00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:20,080
Speaker 1: living with your parents, of course your sex life is

993
00:53:20,080 --> 00:53:23,360
Speaker 1: probably gonna also bill us.

994
00:53:23,560 --> 00:53:25,520
Speaker 2: I would assume in most cases.

995
00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:26,839
Speaker 1: Is that a stereotype?

996
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:27,319
Speaker 2: I don't know.

997
00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:30,440
Speaker 1: Again, so is this a good or bad thing? All

998
00:53:30,440 --> 00:53:34,239
Speaker 1: of these things having boundaries? Great, Realizing that the old

999
00:53:34,280 --> 00:53:38,279
Speaker 1: standards of having it all doesn't make sense. Great, Understanding

1000
00:53:38,320 --> 00:53:40,480
Speaker 1: that just because you don't buy into true love or

1001
00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:42,440
Speaker 1: so made theory doesn't mean you have to be a

1002
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:45,120
Speaker 1: part of the hookup culture. Also not a bad thing.

1003
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:47,080
Speaker 1: Like all of these things are like okay, yeah, this

1004
00:53:47,440 --> 00:53:51,600
Speaker 1: is getting making sense, making sense, But what if this

1005
00:53:51,719 --> 00:53:55,480
Speaker 1: is a new pipeline into conservatism. So we talked about

1006
00:53:56,200 --> 00:53:59,600
Speaker 1: the whole trad wife movement and even the soft life movement,

1007
00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:04,080
Speaker 1: which is also the pipeline yoga, crunchy life, all these

1008
00:54:04,120 --> 00:54:09,040
Speaker 1: things being a pipeline into Christian nationalism. Could this newfound

1009
00:54:09,080 --> 00:54:14,239
Speaker 1: look at virginity whatever celibacy in better terms and the

1010
00:54:14,239 --> 00:54:17,160
Speaker 1: concept of waiting be a part of that again, So

1011
00:54:17,239 --> 00:54:19,240
Speaker 1: we talked about the fact that in the queer community

1012
00:54:19,280 --> 00:54:21,640
Speaker 1: it is it is this conversation and trying to be

1013
00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:25,640
Speaker 1: anti queer, anti trans all this rhetoric because it is

1014
00:54:25,719 --> 00:54:28,120
Speaker 1: easy to do so in a way, you're thinking, this

1015
00:54:28,239 --> 00:54:30,440
Speaker 1: makes sense. Oh, yeah, this is just this is just

1016
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:33,960
Speaker 1: common sense type of conversation. Yeah, with the promise of

1017
00:54:34,360 --> 00:54:38,200
Speaker 1: soft living and true romance. Again, if you're trying to

1018
00:54:38,200 --> 00:54:41,040
Speaker 1: stay away from that, you know, hookup culture where it's

1019
00:54:41,080 --> 00:54:45,600
Speaker 1: tiring and overdone. There's also this kind of level things

1020
00:54:45,640 --> 00:54:49,480
Speaker 1: to book talk. I've been reading and we've talked about

1021
00:54:49,520 --> 00:54:52,400
Speaker 1: talking about this. I think Maya, our super executive producer,

1022
00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:56,719
Speaker 1: wanted to have this conversation. But this book talk lore

1023
00:54:57,480 --> 00:55:02,440
Speaker 1: kind of is partially perpetuating.

1024
00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:04,160
Speaker 2: Into this.

1025
00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:07,239
Speaker 1: It's a fine line. It's a fine line, because if

1026
00:55:07,280 --> 00:55:09,840
Speaker 1: you think about things like Twilight, all those things, it

1027
00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:13,399
Speaker 1: definitely did. It definitely did. Of course, book toop. People

1028
00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:16,160
Speaker 1: would be mad at me for bringing in Twilight, Stephanie

1029
00:55:16,239 --> 00:55:18,719
Speaker 1: Meyer any of that, but I apologize. Please don't be

1030
00:55:18,719 --> 00:55:21,520
Speaker 1: mad at me. I'm just saying this like, which is

1031
00:55:21,600 --> 00:55:26,160
Speaker 1: healthy if you have a healthy level of understanding of

1032
00:55:26,200 --> 00:55:29,960
Speaker 1: the non reality. But could be anyway. So moving on, So,

1033
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:33,240
Speaker 1: the purity culture really birth the idea of the perfect marriage,

1034
00:55:33,480 --> 00:55:35,840
Speaker 1: and with the help of social media and influences like

1035
00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:39,279
Speaker 1: Ballerina Farm which we have talked about previously, they make

1036
00:55:39,360 --> 00:55:46,000
Speaker 1: this lifestyle seem romantic, seem perfect, and ideal. So I

1037
00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:48,520
Speaker 1: kind of talked about it before, about the ideas of

1038
00:55:48,600 --> 00:55:52,000
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Elliott and passionate impurity, the woman that was blessed

1039
00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:59,120
Speaker 1: with multiple marriages thanks to death. Congrats. Okay, anyway, but

1040
00:55:59,239 --> 00:56:01,879
Speaker 1: here's an article from Salon dot com which talks about

1041
00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:05,440
Speaker 1: childwives and the purity culture, and they say, deconstructors call

1042
00:56:05,520 --> 00:56:08,239
Speaker 1: this purity culture, and it runs much deeper than the

1043
00:56:08,239 --> 00:56:11,800
Speaker 1: well documented fundamentalists obsession with controlling people's sex life. Purity

1044
00:56:11,840 --> 00:56:14,880
Speaker 1: culture is also a promise that conservative Christians make to

1045
00:56:14,960 --> 00:56:17,439
Speaker 1: young people, if you follow the strict life path, we're

1046
00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:20,840
Speaker 1: showing you you'll be rewarded with true love, a beautiful family,

1047
00:56:20,920 --> 00:56:25,160
Speaker 1: and lots of scorching hot sex within the bounds of marriage,

1048
00:56:25,160 --> 00:56:28,080
Speaker 1: of course. And then they kind of explain and talk

1049
00:56:28,120 --> 00:56:32,360
Speaker 1: about Elizabeth Elliott's Again, Passion and Purity book. One of

1050
00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:36,280
Speaker 1: the people they interviewed, named Chastain, says this a romantic

1051
00:56:36,320 --> 00:56:38,600
Speaker 1: account of her brief marriage to Christian missionary who was

1052
00:56:38,680 --> 00:56:40,920
Speaker 1: killed in Ecuador in nineteen fifty six by the members

1053
00:56:40,960 --> 00:56:43,640
Speaker 1: of an indigenous group he tried to convert. As Liz

1054
00:56:43,760 --> 00:56:46,360
Speaker 1: Charlotte Grant at The Reveller recently wrote the book appeals

1055
00:56:46,360 --> 00:56:49,640
Speaker 1: to those quote hungry for romance, turning that longing into

1056
00:56:50,320 --> 00:56:53,640
Speaker 1: an argument of self denial as a young woman, Grant wrote,

1057
00:56:53,719 --> 00:56:56,840
Speaker 1: I loved her example and courtship of saving yourself for

1058
00:56:57,000 --> 00:57:00,600
Speaker 1: ecstatic marital sex, of the hand of God directing a

1059
00:57:00,680 --> 00:57:02,440
Speaker 1: humble woman's love.

1060
00:57:05,600 --> 00:57:06,560
Speaker 2: Your face.

1061
00:57:08,200 --> 00:57:11,799
Speaker 1: Perfect, I mean, but this is also the same woman

1062
00:57:11,840 --> 00:57:14,480
Speaker 1: who said that, you know, if you don't keep your

1063
00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:17,320
Speaker 1: weight down for your husband, you're failing your marriage if

1064
00:57:17,320 --> 00:57:20,560
Speaker 1: you don't provide sex for him all the time. I

1065
00:57:20,560 --> 00:57:24,720
Speaker 1: want to say, essentially that she if she did not

1066
00:57:24,760 --> 00:57:28,800
Speaker 1: outright say, but insinuated that you a wife could not

1067
00:57:28,880 --> 00:57:32,880
Speaker 1: say no, oh type of thing like you are there

1068
00:57:32,920 --> 00:57:35,640
Speaker 1: to pleasure him because he's had a hard day and

1069
00:57:35,680 --> 00:57:39,040
Speaker 1: you don't want him to stray, So send him to

1070
00:57:39,120 --> 00:57:43,440
Speaker 1: the woods to evangelize, so he can get killed, so

1071
00:57:43,480 --> 00:57:45,600
Speaker 1: you can find a new partner that makes you happy.

1072
00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:49,280
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry, I know, And can I talk about

1073
00:57:49,280 --> 00:57:52,200
Speaker 1: the fact that, man, I really ate this up. I

1074
00:57:52,240 --> 00:57:53,920
Speaker 1: had that book, I had copies of that book. I

1075
00:57:53,920 --> 00:57:55,480
Speaker 1: think I bought a new copy because someone took that

1076
00:57:55,520 --> 00:58:01,280
Speaker 1: copy from me and realizing we are really vocated for colonialism.

1077
00:58:01,520 --> 00:58:05,160
Speaker 1: I'm on the side of the indigenous people. You go ahead,

1078
00:58:05,160 --> 00:58:10,240
Speaker 1: defend your territory, bibro. Anyway, moving on, but yes, So

1079
00:58:10,360 --> 00:58:12,440
Speaker 1: this is a whole level of conversation that's coming back

1080
00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:14,840
Speaker 1: into play with the trad Wife series, with that whole

1081
00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:17,560
Speaker 1: like being there for your man, doing all these things,

1082
00:58:17,640 --> 00:58:20,120
Speaker 1: having a giant family, this is all God's will and

1083
00:58:20,160 --> 00:58:22,280
Speaker 1: this beautiful type of conversation.

1084
00:58:25,160 --> 00:58:26,040
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, just.

1085
00:58:28,400 --> 00:58:34,040
Speaker 1: Oh, I'm thinking about my own past and I'm having moments.

1086
00:58:34,040 --> 00:58:36,120
Speaker 1: So with the help of TikTok, there are influencers who

1087
00:58:36,120 --> 00:58:38,520
Speaker 1: are both using the idea of virginity as a virtue,

1088
00:58:39,560 --> 00:58:42,600
Speaker 1: such as Emily Elizabeth. And this is a new I

1089
00:58:42,600 --> 00:58:46,120
Speaker 1: think this is a current influencer who has the bio

1090
00:58:46,200 --> 00:58:48,640
Speaker 1: quote wildly in love with Jesus. And this is why

1091
00:58:48,680 --> 00:58:50,480
Speaker 1: I'm laughing because I hate to tell the story which

1092
00:58:50,520 --> 00:58:53,280
Speaker 1: brings me back horrific memories when I used to say

1093
00:58:53,280 --> 00:58:55,040
Speaker 1: I didn't need a boyfriend, y'all. I did have a

1094
00:58:55,080 --> 00:58:58,800
Speaker 1: boyfriend till twenties. I didn't date till in the twenties

1095
00:58:58,840 --> 00:59:01,680
Speaker 1: because I was told Jesus not like that, because Jesus

1096
00:59:01,720 --> 00:59:05,080
Speaker 1: was enough. Insert mortifying memory of when I told my

1097
00:59:05,120 --> 00:59:08,400
Speaker 1: friends who told me I was obsessed with Jesus and religion,

1098
00:59:08,520 --> 00:59:10,720
Speaker 1: that just like they wanted to talk about their boyfriends

1099
00:59:10,760 --> 00:59:12,720
Speaker 1: they were in love with, I wanted to talk about

1100
00:59:12,760 --> 00:59:16,040
Speaker 1: mine Jesus. I said that. I said those words.

1101
00:59:17,320 --> 00:59:20,919
Speaker 2: Well, if it makes you feel a lonny better, I said,

1102
00:59:20,960 --> 00:59:26,720
Speaker 2: I was gonna berry Ryan Costly. It doesn't, it does, well,

1103
00:59:26,760 --> 00:59:27,520
Speaker 2: I tried.

1104
00:59:27,240 --> 00:59:31,720
Speaker 1: It doesn't. Oh yeah, So that was a very familiar talk.

1105
00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:35,640
Speaker 1: And then, according to one article by revealer dot com,

1106
00:59:35,840 --> 00:59:40,720
Speaker 1: her videos Elizabeth Emily Elizabeth are reminiscent of so many

1107
00:59:40,760 --> 00:59:43,880
Speaker 1: youth group sermons that used to scare us all about

1108
00:59:43,880 --> 00:59:47,360
Speaker 1: the sex, the way sex can creep out of anywhere,

1109
00:59:47,440 --> 00:59:50,200
Speaker 1: being like you know, your clothes, the way you talk,

1110
00:59:50,480 --> 00:59:52,280
Speaker 1: if you look them in a way, if you're just

1111
00:59:52,320 --> 00:59:54,760
Speaker 1: near a man, if you smell nice, if you touch them,

1112
00:59:54,960 --> 00:59:58,040
Speaker 1: if you hug them, Christian side hugs, you know what

1113
00:59:58,080 --> 01:00:00,320
Speaker 1: I mean. There was a reason for that. Don't get

1114
01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:02,520
Speaker 1: me wrong. Christian side hugs are great. I'm not gonna

1115
01:00:02,560 --> 01:00:04,240
Speaker 1: hug anyone. I don't want to, but you know, but

1116
01:00:04,280 --> 01:00:09,320
Speaker 1: that was a real thing. Here's a here's the direct

1117
01:00:09,680 --> 01:00:12,840
Speaker 1: quote from that article. It says quote. Her content focuses

1118
01:00:12,880 --> 01:00:15,280
Speaker 1: on what describes as a newfound freedom after her earlier

1119
01:00:15,280 --> 01:00:18,120
Speaker 1: life as sexual promiscurity, which is fine and well, if

1120
01:00:18,120 --> 01:00:19,560
Speaker 1: you want to change that, you don't want to be that,

1121
01:00:19,560 --> 01:00:23,240
Speaker 1: that's that's great. In the TikTok clips, Emily nods as

1122
01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:26,880
Speaker 1: texts describing her former life of drinking, taking Plan B

1123
01:00:27,480 --> 01:00:30,120
Speaker 1: and living with her boyfriend flash across the screen. She

1124
01:00:30,160 --> 01:00:33,840
Speaker 1: looks morose but confident. She believes redemption is coming. After

1125
01:00:33,960 --> 01:00:37,200
Speaker 1: five years quote sex free, she met an inspiring actor

1126
01:00:37,240 --> 01:00:40,880
Speaker 1: in Los Angeles who shares her sexual values. Her videos

1127
01:00:40,920 --> 01:00:43,800
Speaker 1: look like clips from romantic comedies and serve as advice

1128
01:00:43,840 --> 01:00:47,200
Speaker 1: for other evangelicals, including why she and her boyfriend avoid

1129
01:00:47,360 --> 01:00:50,160
Speaker 1: napping in the same bed to keep temptation at bay,

1130
01:00:50,440 --> 01:00:56,680
Speaker 1: and how she resists sexual temptation with other people. So

1131
01:00:57,840 --> 01:01:00,800
Speaker 1: I'm doing my best because I am very simi and sarcastic,

1132
01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:05,000
Speaker 1: and I understand this. That's that's all followed. Well, this

1133
01:01:05,080 --> 01:01:07,640
Speaker 1: is all a part of bodily autonomy that we talk about.

1134
01:01:07,680 --> 01:01:10,680
Speaker 1: If you are doing these things for your same like

1135
01:01:11,000 --> 01:01:14,520
Speaker 1: sanctity of mind, you do you. This is a beautiful

1136
01:01:14,520 --> 01:01:19,200
Speaker 1: thing about choice. However, to perpetuate this as the solution

1137
01:01:19,320 --> 01:01:23,760
Speaker 1: for your unhappiness very misleading and also again does lend

1138
01:01:23,760 --> 01:01:25,000
Speaker 1: a hand to rape culture.

1139
01:01:26,480 --> 01:01:30,320
Speaker 3: Yes, And before we recorded started recording this, I was

1140
01:01:30,360 --> 01:01:32,520
Speaker 3: reading an article that we're just going to have to

1141
01:01:32,560 --> 01:01:36,240
Speaker 3: come back into a second part about virginity and ideas

1142
01:01:36,240 --> 01:01:38,720
Speaker 3: around the world. But I was I was reading it

1143
01:01:38,760 --> 01:01:41,760
Speaker 3: and it was interviewing people who hadn't had their period yet,

1144
01:01:42,960 --> 01:01:49,360
Speaker 3: young young people, and they all thought that once they

1145
01:01:49,400 --> 01:01:54,120
Speaker 3: got their period, they had a concern that their bodies

1146
01:01:54,560 --> 01:01:59,120
Speaker 3: would cause them to be raped, and that was just it,

1147
01:01:59,240 --> 01:02:02,080
Speaker 3: like they had a fear of it, these young people,

1148
01:02:02,880 --> 01:02:05,760
Speaker 3: and it was they were talking about their body, and

1149
01:02:05,800 --> 01:02:08,480
Speaker 3: you know, we've discussed previously.

1150
01:02:09,640 --> 01:02:10,479
Speaker 2: This idea of.

1151
01:02:10,400 --> 01:02:12,520
Speaker 3: Like you get your period and you become a woman.

1152
01:02:12,880 --> 01:02:16,080
Speaker 3: They obviously had internalized that, but to them, becoming a

1153
01:02:16,120 --> 01:02:20,560
Speaker 3: woman meant they were in danger of this of like

1154
01:02:20,680 --> 01:02:23,000
Speaker 3: they had to take all these precautions to make sure

1155
01:02:24,280 --> 01:02:29,680
Speaker 3: not to attract men to hurt them. And so it

1156
01:02:29,760 --> 01:02:33,160
Speaker 3: is one of those things where it's if you're in

1157
01:02:33,200 --> 01:02:37,320
Speaker 3: a healthy space and that's what you want, that's perfectly fine.

1158
01:02:37,720 --> 01:02:41,840
Speaker 3: I would also say, you know, your period of youth

1159
01:02:41,840 --> 01:02:44,440
Speaker 3: where you're figuring that out, not that she is, but

1160
01:02:44,680 --> 01:02:46,920
Speaker 3: like her, you know, having sex and drinking too much whatever.

1161
01:02:47,280 --> 01:02:49,320
Speaker 2: Sometimes you just kind of go through those.

1162
01:02:49,040 --> 01:02:53,560
Speaker 3: Things, right, and you you learn and move on become healthier.

1163
01:02:53,800 --> 01:02:56,160
Speaker 3: I'm not saying it's great, but a lot of times

1164
01:02:56,200 --> 01:02:58,120
Speaker 3: when you go to college, you're like, oh, I've grew

1165
01:02:58,200 --> 01:02:59,680
Speaker 3: up in a conservative.

1166
01:02:59,360 --> 01:03:02,080
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, let me do this. Not everybody, but a

1167
01:03:02,080 --> 01:03:03,560
Speaker 2: lot of people right right.

1168
01:03:03,840 --> 01:03:05,480
Speaker 3: And so it's sort of one of those things where

1169
01:03:05,520 --> 01:03:07,480
Speaker 3: I'm like, yes, if it's healthy, and it's coming from

1170
01:03:07,480 --> 01:03:11,960
Speaker 3: a place of this is what I want, but also

1171
01:03:12,080 --> 01:03:16,840
Speaker 3: cognizant of how that could influence other younger people. Who

1172
01:03:16,880 --> 01:03:18,600
Speaker 3: are consuming your content.

1173
01:03:20,160 --> 01:03:22,360
Speaker 1: She's making money off that content, making money.

1174
01:03:22,400 --> 01:03:24,840
Speaker 3: Because we've also talked before about how sometimes we don't

1175
01:03:25,440 --> 01:03:28,560
Speaker 3: Sometimes it's been proven people making that content don't believe

1176
01:03:28,600 --> 01:03:31,160
Speaker 3: that they're just making that content because it does make

1177
01:03:31,200 --> 01:03:31,600
Speaker 3: the money.

1178
01:03:31,600 --> 01:03:34,520
Speaker 2: I have no idea about her, but that is the.

1179
01:03:34,560 --> 01:03:38,439
Speaker 1: Case, right, And here's something to this to her level too.

1180
01:03:38,520 --> 01:03:41,720
Speaker 1: It also gets to that level of book talk fandom

1181
01:03:41,720 --> 01:03:44,960
Speaker 1: talk because she actually is dating an actor. So if

1182
01:03:45,000 --> 01:03:47,880
Speaker 1: you clean your lifestyle up, maybe you'll get the man

1183
01:03:47,880 --> 01:03:52,120
Speaker 1: of your dream if you become pure right, which is

1184
01:03:52,160 --> 01:03:54,760
Speaker 1: a whole different level. So she's able to like explore

1185
01:03:54,800 --> 01:03:57,280
Speaker 1: this into a whole other fantasy level instead of just

1186
01:03:57,280 --> 01:04:00,160
Speaker 1: being like, find the perfect man. It's fine, the dream man.

1187
01:04:00,560 --> 01:04:01,840
Speaker 1: I don't know who this actor is. I don't know

1188
01:04:01,920 --> 01:04:03,880
Speaker 1: anything about her outside of that article we just read,

1189
01:04:04,080 --> 01:04:06,640
Speaker 1: because obviously that's not on my FIP. Oh my god,

1190
01:04:06,640 --> 01:04:08,680
Speaker 1: if it becomes on MYFOP, I'm gonna be really upset.

1191
01:04:10,080 --> 01:04:11,920
Speaker 1: But all of that to say, yes, So there's a

1192
01:04:11,960 --> 01:04:14,000
Speaker 1: lot to that that we have to keep in mind. Again,

1193
01:04:14,880 --> 01:04:17,480
Speaker 1: we're tapping on so many things, but this is some

1194
01:04:17,520 --> 01:04:29,200
Speaker 1: of the things that we are concerned about, and of

1195
01:04:29,240 --> 01:04:33,240
Speaker 1: course many would say that we are being gross at me,

1196
01:04:33,360 --> 01:04:36,480
Speaker 1: specifically being an older millennial even caring about young adult's

1197
01:04:36,480 --> 01:04:40,520
Speaker 1: sex life. It's creepy again, that's the term that I've

1198
01:04:40,520 --> 01:04:43,720
Speaker 1: seen being thrown around. It's cringe, except it's not about

1199
01:04:43,720 --> 01:04:47,480
Speaker 1: the sexualization. Again, I love the autonomy of you being

1200
01:04:47,520 --> 01:04:52,680
Speaker 1: able to choose and having that rational decision as where

1201
01:04:52,720 --> 01:04:55,000
Speaker 1: I was so extreme on one and so extreme on

1202
01:04:55,080 --> 01:04:57,680
Speaker 1: other because I didn't know, I didn't understand, I wasn't

1203
01:04:57,800 --> 01:05:00,800
Speaker 1: educated enough to see these levels that I'm like you

1204
01:05:00,880 --> 01:05:03,440
Speaker 1: do you as in fact, we fell for that once,

1205
01:05:03,480 --> 01:05:05,440
Speaker 1: that that to be pure innocent means to be the

1206
01:05:05,440 --> 01:05:07,560
Speaker 1: opposite of sexy, like that they're telling us this is

1207
01:05:07,560 --> 01:05:11,080
Speaker 1: what it means. But according to the many predators, especially

1208
01:05:11,080 --> 01:05:14,080
Speaker 1: within the churches. Again go back to our purity uh

1209
01:05:15,400 --> 01:05:18,439
Speaker 1: episode in the religious Religious Trauma, because then we also

1210
01:05:18,440 --> 01:05:22,120
Speaker 1: talk about sexual assaults in another episode about it. But

1211
01:05:22,160 --> 01:05:24,960
Speaker 1: all that to say, uh, the perpetrators within the church,

1212
01:05:25,520 --> 01:05:28,480
Speaker 1: this is the actual only standard of sexual appeal. That

1213
01:05:28,640 --> 01:05:33,040
Speaker 1: is the reason that you are appealing, which is alarming

1214
01:05:33,080 --> 01:05:36,520
Speaker 1: in itself. But that said, those who are seeen as

1215
01:05:36,560 --> 01:05:40,360
Speaker 1: pure teens have made it seem that sexual content in

1216
01:05:40,760 --> 01:05:44,360
Speaker 1: general in general is just creepy and any. This is

1217
01:05:44,400 --> 01:05:46,280
Speaker 1: the part that I was like, are you ready for this?

1218
01:05:46,360 --> 01:05:48,720
Speaker 1: Because it's it's a lot and I feel like this

1219
01:05:48,800 --> 01:05:50,480
Speaker 1: could be a whole episode that I would.

1220
01:05:50,360 --> 01:05:55,600
Speaker 2: Let you do. Yeah, I know a lot about this, but.

1221
01:05:55,760 --> 01:05:59,320
Speaker 1: Like specifically when it comes to fandoms, they like the

1222
01:05:59,360 --> 01:06:02,000
Speaker 1: purit teens have been going after fandoms. Again, as I

1223
01:06:02,040 --> 01:06:05,400
Speaker 1: originally told you, it kind of started with the whole Hannibal.

1224
01:06:05,800 --> 01:06:08,400
Speaker 2: Yes, they are which and slash together.

1225
01:06:08,840 --> 01:06:10,320
Speaker 1: There are a lot of slash. There's a lot of

1226
01:06:10,320 --> 01:06:17,919
Speaker 1: shipping those terms. I know there's more that I don't obviously. Yeah,

1227
01:06:17,960 --> 01:06:20,960
Speaker 1: anything that depicts sexuality seems to be named predatory shipping,

1228
01:06:21,160 --> 01:06:24,600
Speaker 1: dark romance, kink, as we mentioned above. So here is

1229
01:06:25,000 --> 01:06:28,760
Speaker 1: a little bit from vox dot com. Fans devoted to

1230
01:06:28,800 --> 01:06:32,360
Speaker 1: this quote problematic ship. They're talking about any gradually get

1231
01:06:32,400 --> 01:06:36,000
Speaker 1: shorthanded as being pro ship. The pro here has historically

1232
01:06:36,040 --> 01:06:38,280
Speaker 1: meant in favor of, but some in the world now

1233
01:06:38,280 --> 01:06:42,240
Speaker 1: claim it short for problematic, frustrating to the point of dispute.

1234
01:06:42,240 --> 01:06:44,800
Speaker 1: That shows how slippery these conversations can be. It's, of

1235
01:06:44,840 --> 01:06:47,920
Speaker 1: course hard to defend or debate being in favor of

1236
01:06:47,960 --> 01:06:51,440
Speaker 1: something inherently problematic. In other words, if you ship characters

1237
01:06:51,440 --> 01:06:54,080
Speaker 1: and fandom, which is arguably the dominant reason many people

1238
01:06:54,160 --> 01:06:58,360
Speaker 1: are in fandom, then you are suddenly unnotice as being harmful.

1239
01:07:02,400 --> 01:07:09,840
Speaker 3: That's really interesting because well too, I always have to

1240
01:07:09,880 --> 01:07:12,840
Speaker 3: specify in this conversation. I am a very specific niche

1241
01:07:13,720 --> 01:07:20,960
Speaker 3: and I don't encounter a lot of the stuff I

1242
01:07:21,000 --> 01:07:26,480
Speaker 3: read is very like aware of either it's problematic and

1243
01:07:26,480 --> 01:07:28,400
Speaker 3: I'm going to tell you and we all know it's problematic,

1244
01:07:28,640 --> 01:07:31,680
Speaker 3: but hey, if you want to read this, you can.

1245
01:07:31,760 --> 01:07:33,200
Speaker 2: If you don't want to read it, don't read it.

1246
01:07:33,680 --> 01:07:35,960
Speaker 3: Which if they don't put that in there, and it's

1247
01:07:36,160 --> 01:07:40,080
Speaker 3: and by problematic, I mean pretty bad, like I don't know,

1248
01:07:40,600 --> 01:07:43,560
Speaker 3: massive age to friends or something like that. If they

1249
01:07:43,600 --> 01:07:45,760
Speaker 3: don't put that in there, it actually kes me out

1250
01:07:45,800 --> 01:07:47,320
Speaker 3: even more. And I hate that I just use XS

1251
01:07:47,320 --> 01:07:50,960
Speaker 3: because they actually hate that term. But if they don't

1252
01:07:51,000 --> 01:07:53,600
Speaker 3: put that in there, then it makes me more uncomfortable.

1253
01:07:53,640 --> 01:07:56,640
Speaker 3: If they acknowledge that they know it is, that makes

1254
01:07:56,640 --> 01:07:57,360
Speaker 3: me feel better.

1255
01:07:58,520 --> 01:08:01,040
Speaker 2: I usually don't read a lot.

1256
01:08:00,920 --> 01:08:03,880
Speaker 3: Of sexual content, but I just feel like in my

1257
01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:07,440
Speaker 3: time of since seventh grade to now reading fan fiction,

1258
01:08:08,200 --> 01:08:11,440
Speaker 3: it has become a much This could just be the

1259
01:08:11,480 --> 01:08:13,600
Speaker 3: area I'm in, but a much more aware space of

1260
01:08:13,800 --> 01:08:18,200
Speaker 3: like very I will put in the mornings, there might

1261
01:08:18,240 --> 01:08:21,960
Speaker 3: be something like non content rape, or there might be

1262
01:08:22,000 --> 01:08:24,000
Speaker 3: something like even alcohol.

1263
01:08:24,080 --> 01:08:25,760
Speaker 2: They'll put in there, like very.

1264
01:08:27,000 --> 01:08:31,040
Speaker 3: Very aware of how what their writing could impact the reader.

1265
01:08:31,880 --> 01:08:34,559
Speaker 3: So this is interesting to me. I have seen it

1266
01:08:35,240 --> 01:08:39,960
Speaker 3: and Joey Conjuctor. Joey and I did talk about it

1267
01:08:40,000 --> 01:08:41,920
Speaker 3: in something we're about to talk about in a second,

1268
01:08:42,280 --> 01:08:46,920
Speaker 3: when it came to people really possibly demonizing fan fiction

1269
01:08:47,000 --> 01:08:50,800
Speaker 3: or making it go away right, that all of these

1270
01:08:51,960 --> 01:08:59,559
Speaker 3: ways it was being interpreted as harmful sexual content. When

1271
01:08:59,640 --> 01:09:02,320
Speaker 3: I feel like that, while that does exist, I feel

1272
01:09:02,360 --> 01:09:04,760
Speaker 3: like it's become a lot better than when I was

1273
01:09:04,800 --> 01:09:08,200
Speaker 3: reading it when I was younger, But I have to

1274
01:09:08,200 --> 01:09:12,120
Speaker 3: caveyat I feel my space is maybe it's different.

1275
01:09:13,000 --> 01:09:15,439
Speaker 1: Brother, you curated your space.

1276
01:09:15,600 --> 01:09:16,639
Speaker 2: I did. Yeah.

1277
01:09:16,680 --> 01:09:19,440
Speaker 1: I mean we've talked about the fighting of the shipping

1278
01:09:19,560 --> 01:09:23,360
Speaker 1: and the depots and the hardcore, about canon events and

1279
01:09:23,400 --> 01:09:25,760
Speaker 1: what's not canon events, and it has been now a

1280
01:09:26,000 --> 01:09:29,800
Speaker 1: bit rebranded as over sexualizing of beloved characters. So there's

1281
01:09:29,840 --> 01:09:32,960
Speaker 1: a lot of ownership and therefore, if you're doing this,

1282
01:09:33,080 --> 01:09:35,840
Speaker 1: you're problematic because you've over sexualized something that they don't

1283
01:09:35,880 --> 01:09:40,080
Speaker 1: want sexualized, which is fine, yeah, but not to like

1284
01:09:40,160 --> 01:09:43,120
Speaker 1: actually try to ban it. Now. In that Vox article

1285
01:09:43,160 --> 01:09:45,639
Speaker 1: they talk do talk about bills like Foster SESSTA, which

1286
01:09:45,680 --> 01:09:47,280
Speaker 1: I think we did a whole episode with bridget a

1287
01:09:47,320 --> 01:09:50,880
Speaker 1: while ago about a crackdown on online adult content which

1288
01:09:51,000 --> 01:09:55,519
Speaker 1: heralded child's safety. But of course this hurts sex workers

1289
01:09:55,520 --> 01:09:59,120
Speaker 1: and educators more than the actual predators. Although I think

1290
01:09:59,120 --> 01:10:01,040
Speaker 1: there's been a recent change, but a lot of the

1291
01:10:01,080 --> 01:10:04,519
Speaker 1: states have now outlawed, like or I put specific rules

1292
01:10:04,520 --> 01:10:09,080
Speaker 1: to porn sites. Completely different side note anyway, going back

1293
01:10:09,120 --> 01:10:12,640
Speaker 1: to and they continue on in that article, and it

1294
01:10:12,680 --> 01:10:15,120
Speaker 1: played out pretty hard on Tumblr. So here's what the

1295
01:10:15,200 --> 01:10:19,240
Speaker 1: article says. Overnight, via its infamous ban on porn, Tumblr

1296
01:10:19,280 --> 01:10:22,080
Speaker 1: went from being a notably horny platform to a site

1297
01:10:22,120 --> 01:10:25,200
Speaker 1: full of regressive, paranoid, wary fans who were obsessed with

1298
01:10:25,240 --> 01:10:30,000
Speaker 1: spotting pedophilia and illicit sexual materials everywhere and anywhere, even

1299
01:10:30,040 --> 01:10:32,799
Speaker 1: if the things they deemed immoral and ilicit were nowhere

1300
01:10:32,800 --> 01:10:36,639
Speaker 1: close to illegal. So like that people are hyper aware,

1301
01:10:36,640 --> 01:10:39,320
Speaker 1: which we've talked about before about who is actually being hunted?

1302
01:10:39,400 --> 01:10:41,679
Speaker 1: Is this the witch hunt is this actually helping children

1303
01:10:42,080 --> 01:10:44,280
Speaker 1: or is this giving like more ammo to like right

1304
01:10:44,320 --> 01:10:48,280
Speaker 1: wing conservatives and their agenda. So in that same article

1305
01:10:48,320 --> 01:10:50,400
Speaker 1: they talk about it being cut somewhat like anti trans,

1306
01:10:50,439 --> 01:10:53,519
Speaker 1: anti queer, like this is going after anti trans people

1307
01:10:53,760 --> 01:10:56,920
Speaker 1: and anti queer people and like calling them groomers, going

1308
01:10:57,200 --> 01:11:01,040
Speaker 1: really like into about what doing like this is being

1309
01:11:01,080 --> 01:11:05,240
Speaker 1: the evidence of like see they're pedophiles. So here's what

1310
01:11:05,280 --> 01:11:07,920
Speaker 1: they write in that it's almost like a game, slipping

1311
01:11:07,960 --> 01:11:12,000
Speaker 1: some ideology secretly into a fantish experience. It's misinformation under

1312
01:11:12,000 --> 01:11:15,040
Speaker 1: the guise of activism. Like the US's larger current moral

1313
01:11:15,080 --> 01:11:20,120
Speaker 1: panic over drag shows, LGBTQ people and quote groomors, fandom's

1314
01:11:20,120 --> 01:11:24,000
Speaker 1: culture has regressed towards sexual repression, attacks on sexual minority

1315
01:11:24,240 --> 01:11:27,639
Speaker 1: and censorship of art made by marginalized people. The shift

1316
01:11:27,720 --> 01:11:30,720
Speaker 1: happening in fandom and across the internet helped exacerbate the

1317
01:11:30,800 --> 01:11:34,000
Speaker 1: larger cultural shift. And this is a quote from one

1318
01:11:34,080 --> 01:11:37,519
Speaker 1: of one of the contributors. There's no meaningful difference to

1319
01:11:37,560 --> 01:11:39,479
Speaker 1: me between a right winger who calls me a pedo

1320
01:11:39,600 --> 01:11:42,160
Speaker 1: because I'm trans and an anti shipper that calls me

1321
01:11:42,200 --> 01:11:44,720
Speaker 1: a pedo because I read Homestuck, said Farah, a thirty

1322
01:11:44,760 --> 01:11:46,800
Speaker 1: three year old fan from North Carolina whose full name

1323
01:11:46,840 --> 01:11:49,200
Speaker 1: had been with help at their request, referring to the

1324
01:11:49,280 --> 01:11:52,800
Speaker 1: famously weird webcomic. They're both putting me and people like

1325
01:11:52,880 --> 01:11:56,320
Speaker 1: me in a dangerous position. So again, this is where

1326
01:11:56,360 --> 01:11:59,679
Speaker 1: we kind of have that really thin line of what

1327
01:12:00,280 --> 01:12:04,920
Speaker 1: is this new level of morality, purity culture, who is

1328
01:12:04,920 --> 01:12:08,000
Speaker 1: it actually going after instead of just blaming women and

1329
01:12:08,160 --> 01:12:12,160
Speaker 1: like allowing for rape culture to exist, meaning like allowing

1330
01:12:12,160 --> 01:12:14,639
Speaker 1: for that the rape just rape isn't a big deal

1331
01:12:15,520 --> 01:12:17,760
Speaker 1: or isn't as is happening as much as people say

1332
01:12:17,760 --> 01:12:21,519
Speaker 1: whatever whatnot, but that this is now an anti queer,

1333
01:12:21,640 --> 01:12:25,839
Speaker 1: anti transagenda usage and it's come in a small rhetoric

1334
01:12:25,920 --> 01:12:28,240
Speaker 1: and that being of like no, but you know they're saying,

1335
01:12:28,280 --> 01:12:30,160
Speaker 1: be sexual free. What they're trying to do is make

1336
01:12:30,800 --> 01:12:34,240
Speaker 1: become a predator and you're trying to make you a victim.

1337
01:12:34,520 --> 01:12:39,080
Speaker 1: Which is that conversation. There's a lot in that alone.

1338
01:12:39,479 --> 01:12:43,920
Speaker 2: And fan fiction famously is very queer.

1339
01:12:44,280 --> 01:12:48,960
Speaker 3: It's a very very very queer space. There's plenty of

1340
01:12:49,040 --> 01:12:52,880
Speaker 3: what's called head in there, but almost everything else.

1341
01:12:52,760 --> 01:12:54,160
Speaker 1: You're gonna have to explain what head is I don't

1342
01:12:54,160 --> 01:12:54,439
Speaker 1: know what.

1343
01:12:54,360 --> 01:12:57,840
Speaker 2: You just said. It's sexual. Oh okay, yeah, but it's

1344
01:12:57,880 --> 01:12:59,799
Speaker 2: called like heat. Okay.

1345
01:13:00,280 --> 01:13:03,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a lot of there's so much of that,

1346
01:13:04,360 --> 01:13:06,880
Speaker 3: but there's so much. I don't think I have any

1347
01:13:07,080 --> 01:13:09,960
Speaker 3: fan fiction story I'm reading right now if it has

1348
01:13:10,040 --> 01:13:14,160
Speaker 3: like a relationship in it, because sometimes I just read like, oh,

1349
01:13:14,240 --> 01:13:18,400
Speaker 3: Darth Vader's the father to Luke. Oh god, but it

1350
01:13:18,760 --> 01:13:21,680
Speaker 3: has a relationship in it. There's a gay relationship in there.

1351
01:13:22,680 --> 01:13:26,200
Speaker 3: Usually all of them are, but not always. So it

1352
01:13:26,320 --> 01:13:31,680
Speaker 3: is a very gay, a queer space. And I I know,

1353
01:13:32,120 --> 01:13:36,360
Speaker 3: I recently was looking at AO three just their FAQ

1354
01:13:36,640 --> 01:13:40,080
Speaker 3: because I was curious if now that Donald Trump has

1355
01:13:40,080 --> 01:13:42,479
Speaker 3: been elected again, this was a whole thing about like

1356
01:13:43,560 --> 01:13:45,519
Speaker 3: Foster Sessa is going to get rid of fan fiction.

1357
01:13:46,800 --> 01:13:50,320
Speaker 2: AO three is like a nonprofit, and so I was like,

1358
01:13:50,720 --> 01:13:52,720
Speaker 2: I don't know, I just could go away, and I

1359
01:13:52,760 --> 01:13:55,679
Speaker 2: was just curious if said anything about it. And they

1360
01:13:55,760 --> 01:13:58,599
Speaker 2: had a whole section about how to report and what

1361
01:13:58,640 --> 01:14:02,400
Speaker 2: they would take seriously as being an offense, and they

1362
01:14:02,400 --> 01:14:04,960
Speaker 2: had really like but it was recent and so I

1363
01:14:05,000 --> 01:14:09,479
Speaker 2: could tell like some things had gone down, and I

1364
01:14:09,520 --> 01:14:15,679
Speaker 2: can completely see people are really serious about their ships

1365
01:14:16,240 --> 01:14:19,519
Speaker 2: are the shifts that they don't like, and I can

1366
01:14:19,560 --> 01:14:23,720
Speaker 2: completely see weaponizing that into being like you're over sexualizing

1367
01:14:24,280 --> 01:14:28,360
Speaker 2: something you or gross, Whereas usually, like I said, I've

1368
01:14:28,360 --> 01:14:30,479
Speaker 2: said this before, there's plenty of sexual content on there,

1369
01:14:30,520 --> 01:14:34,400
Speaker 2: but a lot of it is like they're domestic together

1370
01:14:35,040 --> 01:14:38,720
Speaker 2: and it's a queer couple because we don't get to

1371
01:14:38,760 --> 01:14:41,160
Speaker 2: see representation a lot. There is a lot of in

1372
01:14:41,200 --> 01:14:45,000
Speaker 2: my space. There's a lot of trans trans representation. There's

1373
01:14:45,040 --> 01:14:48,439
Speaker 2: ace representation, don't get me wrong, plenty of that has

1374
01:14:48,479 --> 01:14:50,800
Speaker 2: a lot of sexual stuff in it, but usually it's

1375
01:14:50,840 --> 01:14:57,200
Speaker 2: like adults consenting, it's are it's just domestic stuff byin cartons, yeah,

1376
01:14:57,520 --> 01:14:58,160
Speaker 2: curtain thick.

1377
01:14:59,360 --> 01:15:03,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, but people will if they don't like They will

1378
01:15:03,240 --> 01:15:06,200
Speaker 3: attack you if they don't like your ship, for sure.

1379
01:15:06,600 --> 01:15:08,160
Speaker 1: And that's an interesting base to go after.

1380
01:15:09,000 --> 01:15:12,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, because I have friends who are like, I

1381
01:15:13,000 --> 01:15:15,120
Speaker 3: just don't want sex and Star Wars, for example, I

1382
01:15:15,160 --> 01:15:16,479
Speaker 3: get it, you don't have to read it.

1383
01:15:16,479 --> 01:15:16,960
Speaker 2: That's fine.

1384
01:15:17,600 --> 01:15:20,080
Speaker 3: I also usually skip the sex scene, so I get it.

1385
01:15:20,600 --> 01:15:24,800
Speaker 3: But I've had friends who get mad that, as she says, like,

1386
01:15:24,800 --> 01:15:27,840
Speaker 3: why do we always have to put people together and

1387
01:15:27,880 --> 01:15:31,680
Speaker 3: make them gay? Which I get because I think we

1388
01:15:31,720 --> 01:15:35,680
Speaker 3: should have more spaces for platonic male relationships usually.

1389
01:15:35,720 --> 01:15:39,479
Speaker 2: Is the issue. But also if you're queer and you

1390
01:15:39,520 --> 01:15:44,880
Speaker 2: never see it, I get it too, So I'm aditing. Yeah, yeah,

1391
01:15:44,960 --> 01:15:48,679
Speaker 2: you just want to see it. You go to fan

1392
01:15:48,720 --> 01:15:50,840
Speaker 2: fiction for it. That's never going to happen. You don't

1393
01:15:50,920 --> 01:15:52,680
Speaker 2: have to worry about it because they're never going to

1394
01:15:52,720 --> 01:15:53,240
Speaker 2: give it to.

1395
01:15:53,240 --> 01:16:00,680
Speaker 1: Us, not in the correct way. Yeah gosh, So that

1396
01:16:00,920 --> 01:16:03,280
Speaker 1: to me, I thought that was an interesting side note. Again,

1397
01:16:03,400 --> 01:16:05,040
Speaker 1: this is kind of that level of like we have

1398
01:16:05,080 --> 01:16:07,479
Speaker 1: to balance, we have to take a look and where

1399
01:16:07,680 --> 01:16:10,439
Speaker 1: this can see and how it can be kind of regimental.

1400
01:16:11,080 --> 01:16:13,160
Speaker 1: But with all of that, capitalism is going to do

1401
01:16:13,200 --> 01:16:15,240
Speaker 1: his thing as well, like that. They want a piece

1402
01:16:15,240 --> 01:16:18,040
Speaker 1: of this in the form of reality shows, am I right?

1403
01:16:18,200 --> 01:16:18,800
Speaker 1: Oh my god?

1404
01:16:19,120 --> 01:16:19,360
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1405
01:16:19,400 --> 01:16:21,880
Speaker 1: So a reality show produced by the same people of

1406
01:16:21,920 --> 01:16:24,920
Speaker 1: Love Island, which I've previously talked about how I've never

1407
01:16:24,960 --> 01:16:26,600
Speaker 1: watched this, but it keeps coming on my for a

1408
01:16:26,640 --> 01:16:30,120
Speaker 1: you page and I'm like why. This one stars Culton Underwood,

1409
01:16:30,120 --> 01:16:33,160
Speaker 1: who was noted as the first virgin bachelor who later

1410
01:16:33,240 --> 01:16:37,560
Speaker 1: came out as gay. So very interesting and according to

1411
01:16:37,600 --> 01:16:41,200
Speaker 1: the announcement of Disney project. They state the contestants will

1412
01:16:41,200 --> 01:16:45,320
Speaker 1: be navigating quote love, lust and losing it, which again

1413
01:16:45,439 --> 01:16:47,160
Speaker 1: makes me want to throw things. So the title of

1414
01:16:47,160 --> 01:16:48,639
Speaker 1: the show or the name of the show is are

1415
01:16:48,680 --> 01:16:51,680
Speaker 1: You My First? It's a Hulu show that's coming out

1416
01:16:51,720 --> 01:16:52,120
Speaker 1: this month.

1417
01:16:52,160 --> 01:16:52,759
Speaker 2: I think.

1418
01:16:54,120 --> 01:16:56,200
Speaker 1: Not sponsored. It will never be sponsored. I don't want it.

1419
01:16:56,200 --> 01:17:01,120
Speaker 1: Don't bring that to my sponsor ad anyway, it says.

1420
01:17:01,280 --> 01:17:04,679
Speaker 1: So this is how they describe it. From the Hollywood Reporter,

1421
01:17:05,000 --> 01:17:07,880
Speaker 1: here's the official synopsis of Are You My First. In

1422
01:17:07,920 --> 01:17:11,479
Speaker 1: this groundbreaking new dating experiment, the largest hottest group of

1423
01:17:11,560 --> 01:17:15,400
Speaker 1: virgins ever assembled search for intimacy, love, and maybe they're

1424
01:17:15,439 --> 01:17:19,040
Speaker 1: first in a tropical paradise designed just for them. For

1425
01:17:19,080 --> 01:17:22,960
Speaker 1: the first time, they're free to explore the connections without judgment,

1426
01:17:23,320 --> 01:17:26,240
Speaker 1: allowing these sexy young singles to embark on a heated

1427
01:17:26,320 --> 01:17:30,080
Speaker 1: yet heartfelt journey packed with the romantic dates, revealing challenges,

1428
01:17:30,320 --> 01:17:33,880
Speaker 1: and new love interests, eager to find the one who

1429
01:17:33,920 --> 01:17:37,320
Speaker 1: will find that special someone and who will go home hot,

1430
01:17:37,400 --> 01:17:38,760
Speaker 1: bothered and heartbroken.

1431
01:17:39,800 --> 01:17:40,400
Speaker 2: No thanks.

1432
01:17:41,479 --> 01:17:44,200
Speaker 1: I you know what, even in my era of like

1433
01:17:44,439 --> 01:17:48,120
Speaker 1: purity culture, in our nineteen nineties true love Ways era,

1434
01:17:48,280 --> 01:17:50,880
Speaker 1: they would never do such a thing.

1435
01:17:51,760 --> 01:17:54,840
Speaker 3: This is such an interesting juxtaposition because you both have

1436
01:17:54,960 --> 01:18:00,519
Speaker 3: the idea that you're losing quote, something of va value you.

1437
01:18:01,240 --> 01:18:08,880
Speaker 3: But it's also a reality TV show, which feels like.

1438
01:18:07,560 --> 01:18:10,120
Speaker 4: Like that special moment is not gonna happen with the

1439
01:18:10,200 --> 01:18:12,760
Speaker 4: cameras are like they're people are talking about you, and

1440
01:18:12,760 --> 01:18:14,840
Speaker 4: they are judging you by the way you are going

1441
01:18:14,920 --> 01:18:15,679
Speaker 4: to be judged.

1442
01:18:15,920 --> 01:18:19,280
Speaker 1: Yes, and Love Island is infamous for all its trusts,

1443
01:18:19,320 --> 01:18:21,400
Speaker 1: Like they want you to have sex, they want you

1444
01:18:21,479 --> 01:18:23,680
Speaker 1: to kiss, they want you to do the cheating. So

1445
01:18:23,720 --> 01:18:27,040
Speaker 1: this is like, what, how is this going to be successful?

1446
01:18:27,040 --> 01:18:30,280
Speaker 1: And how much trauma if they truly are doing this

1447
01:18:30,400 --> 01:18:33,080
Speaker 1: as a way of being or are they eighteen and

1448
01:18:33,439 --> 01:18:36,320
Speaker 1: trying to figure out what their conversation or definition of

1449
01:18:36,680 --> 01:18:41,080
Speaker 1: virginity is? And also how what what is the test? Okay,

1450
01:18:41,160 --> 01:18:44,880
Speaker 1: there's I'm confused. I'm disturbed. There's so many things that

1451
01:18:45,040 --> 01:18:47,160
Speaker 1: just feel like this is going to go awry and

1452
01:18:47,200 --> 01:18:49,679
Speaker 1: this is gonna cause a lot more trauma than anything else.

1453
01:18:50,080 --> 01:18:53,800
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, and that's I don't think this is news

1454
01:18:53,840 --> 01:18:56,040
Speaker 3: to anyone listening, but as someone.

1455
01:18:55,760 --> 01:18:58,400
Speaker 2: Who has been on a reality.

1456
01:18:57,920 --> 01:19:02,240
Speaker 3: Show, Uh, they're mostly actors everybody.

1457
01:19:02,080 --> 01:19:04,080
Speaker 1: Right, that's the other part of this is like.

1458
01:19:04,800 --> 01:19:07,720
Speaker 3: They're mostly people who are at least trying to become actors,

1459
01:19:09,160 --> 01:19:10,040
Speaker 3: not always.

1460
01:19:10,800 --> 01:19:12,439
Speaker 2: I just wanted to free lunch.

1461
01:19:17,760 --> 01:19:21,519
Speaker 1: She's just hungry. Okay, there is so much again. So

1462
01:19:21,840 --> 01:19:24,040
Speaker 1: we went down this rabbit hole trying to figure out

1463
01:19:24,360 --> 01:19:26,640
Speaker 1: what is happening, and I think we came out with

1464
01:19:26,680 --> 01:19:29,599
Speaker 1: a better understanding of what is being said and how

1465
01:19:29,640 --> 01:19:33,720
Speaker 1: it's being framed. I am interested in hearing from any

1466
01:19:33,800 --> 01:19:36,000
Speaker 1: of our agen z years. What are your thoughts on

1467
01:19:36,040 --> 01:19:38,320
Speaker 1: this are? What are you thinking that we said? That

1468
01:19:38,439 --> 01:19:42,880
Speaker 1: is wrong? Some of my older crew, have you experienced

1469
01:19:42,920 --> 01:19:45,760
Speaker 1: my experiences. I'm sorry for any of the old friends

1470
01:19:45,800 --> 01:19:48,400
Speaker 1: who are like you did this to me, and I apologize.

1471
01:19:48,760 --> 01:19:50,720
Speaker 1: Let us know, don't tell, don't don't don't email me

1472
01:19:50,760 --> 01:19:52,320
Speaker 1: if you know me, because I think I can't handle

1473
01:19:52,320 --> 01:19:54,519
Speaker 1: that trauma, but just to know I'm sorry. But before

1474
01:19:54,560 --> 01:19:57,240
Speaker 1: the other people who may have experienced similar things, let

1475
01:19:57,280 --> 01:19:58,360
Speaker 1: us know what your thoughts are.

1476
01:19:58,600 --> 01:20:00,600
Speaker 3: Yes, and we will be back to talk about this.

1477
01:20:00,600 --> 01:20:04,120
Speaker 3: We would love to hear from listeners from around the world,

1478
01:20:04,200 --> 01:20:07,320
Speaker 3: because I was always telling Samantha when I had the

1479
01:20:07,320 --> 01:20:10,360
Speaker 3: first time I was in Europe, all my European friends

1480
01:20:10,400 --> 01:20:12,120
Speaker 3: were like it is just not that big of a

1481
01:20:12,160 --> 01:20:15,240
Speaker 3: deal your first sexual encounter in Europe as it compared

1482
01:20:15,320 --> 01:20:16,880
Speaker 3: to what it is in the United States. But then

1483
01:20:16,920 --> 01:20:19,759
Speaker 3: when I was researching it beforehand, it kind of seems

1484
01:20:19,800 --> 01:20:24,640
Speaker 3: like it exists. Some version of this does exist everywhere.

1485
01:20:25,160 --> 01:20:28,360
Speaker 3: So listeners from around the world please write in. We

1486
01:20:28,400 --> 01:20:31,519
Speaker 3: are going to have to do another episode on things

1487
01:20:31,560 --> 01:20:33,479
Speaker 3: like virginity checks. That's going to be a whole thing.

1488
01:20:34,240 --> 01:20:37,800
Speaker 3: But in the meantime, listeners, if you would like to

1489
01:20:37,800 --> 01:20:39,840
Speaker 3: try to as you can, you can email us a hello.

1490
01:20:39,880 --> 01:20:41,439
Speaker 3: It's stuff Onever Told You dot com. You can find

1491
01:20:41,520 --> 01:20:43,599
Speaker 3: us on Blue Cat Mom Stuff podcast or on Instagram

1492
01:20:43,600 --> 01:20:45,720
Speaker 3: and TikTok at Stuff I Never Told You for us

1493
01:20:45,760 --> 01:20:47,639
Speaker 3: on YouTube, and we have a book you can get

1494
01:20:47,640 --> 01:20:50,479
Speaker 3: wherever you get earbooks. Thanks as always to our super

1495
01:20:50,560 --> 01:20:52,880
Speaker 3: just Gristine or executive prusu My and your contributor Joey.

1496
01:20:52,960 --> 01:20:55,360
Speaker 2: Thank you and thanks to you for listening. Stuff I

1497
01:20:55,360 --> 01:20:57,160
Speaker 2: Ever Told You is production by Heart Radio. More podcasts

1498
01:20:57,160 --> 01:20:57,760
Speaker 2: from my Heart Radio.

1499
01:20:57,760 --> 01:20:59,559
Speaker 3: You can check out the art radio app Apple Podcasts

1500
01:20:59,560 --> 01:21:01,160
Speaker 3: wherever listen to your favorite shows.