WEBVTT - Helen | Betrayal Weekly

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<v Speaker 1>There's this feeling there. Moms are good no matter what.

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<v Speaker 1>Moms are good even if they do the wrong thing.

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<v Speaker 1>It's because they love you so much. If you need

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<v Speaker 1>to accept the lie to live, then you accept the lie.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Betrayal, a show about

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<v Speaker 2>the people we trust the most and the deceptions that

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<v Speaker 2>change everything. Today we're telling Helen Naeler's story. Helen grew

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<v Speaker 2>up in the Midlands of the UK.

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<v Speaker 1>The place where I was born was a really little town,

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<v Speaker 1>so you basically knew everybody, and I'd walk through town

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<v Speaker 1>and bump into ten people I knew.

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<v Speaker 2>She was an only child. Her parents were Eleanor and Allan.

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<v Speaker 1>We lived in a really nice three bedroom semi detached

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<v Speaker 1>which was painted yellow with a brightly door. They have

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<v Speaker 1>very seventies taste in decor, so it quite swirly brown

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<v Speaker 1>carpets and very peach. If there was a color choice,

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<v Speaker 1>it was peach.

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<v Speaker 2>Helen's parents were older than her friend's parents.

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<v Speaker 1>Mum was thirty five when she had me. My dad

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<v Speaker 1>was over forty, and at the time that was quite

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<v Speaker 1>a big deal.

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<v Speaker 2>Helen was very young when her dad's health took a

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<v Speaker 2>turn for the worse.

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<v Speaker 1>When I was seven, my dad was diagnosed with heart

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<v Speaker 1>and lung problems. He had cardia myopathy and asthma that

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<v Speaker 1>eventually became emphysina.

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<v Speaker 2>Not long after her dad's diagnosis, Helen's mom, Eleanor, also

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<v Speaker 2>got sick. She stopped getting out of bed and stopped

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<v Speaker 2>being able to play with Helen. She was diagnosed with

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<v Speaker 2>ME my algic and cephalomyelitis, also known as chronic fatigue syndrome.

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<v Speaker 2>It can cause muscle and join pain, dizziness, and headaches.

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<v Speaker 1>The most common symptom is extreme tiredness, making any activities difficult,

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<v Speaker 1>going for a shour, going to work. You can not

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<v Speaker 1>sleep well, you can have problems cognitively.

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<v Speaker 2>ME can cause debilitating exhaustion. It's chronic, and there is

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<v Speaker 2>no cure. The disease sometimes occurs after a viral infection,

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<v Speaker 2>kind of like a long COVID. Treatments are designed to

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<v Speaker 2>help patients manage their symptoms and learn to adjust to

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<v Speaker 2>a much slower pace of life.

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<v Speaker 1>My mom used to say if she wanted to do something,

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<v Speaker 1>she'd have to spend a week resting to prepare to

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<v Speaker 1>do that thing, and then a week after resting to

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<v Speaker 1>get over it.

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<v Speaker 2>Her mom retired early because of her illness. So from

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<v Speaker 2>the age of seven on, Helen grew up with two

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<v Speaker 2>sick parents. Her life revolved around their illnesses.

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<v Speaker 1>It completely shaped my life. I was the child of

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<v Speaker 1>two disabled people, and that was my identity.

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<v Speaker 2>While her friends were in first grade learning to read,

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<v Speaker 2>Helen was worrying about her parents, especially her mom.

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<v Speaker 1>Although I knew that my dad's illnesses were more serious,

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<v Speaker 1>life revolved around my mom.

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<v Speaker 2>Her mom's chronic fatigue took over their family's life completely.

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<v Speaker 2>Eleanor slept for eighteen hours a day and didn't even

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<v Speaker 2>have enough energy to walk to the mailbox.

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<v Speaker 1>She wouldn't walk me to the end of the road.

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<v Speaker 1>We're talking like a small road with a corner shop

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<v Speaker 1>at the bottom, and she wouldn't walk me there because

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<v Speaker 1>she couldn't. She would be in bed every afternoon that

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<v Speaker 1>I remember. We didn't go out at weekends.

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<v Speaker 2>On the rare occasion that they did leave the house together,

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<v Speaker 2>they had to adapt their activities around her mom if

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<v Speaker 2>they went shopping. Eleanor wrote a mobility scooter.

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<v Speaker 1>As a teenager. That was so embarrassing, Like already I

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<v Speaker 1>had these parents who were older, and they stood out

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<v Speaker 1>and now she was on this scooter like hurling around

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<v Speaker 1>the shopping center. I was just so mortified.

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<v Speaker 2>But over time, Helen got over the embarrassment and learned

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<v Speaker 2>to accept her mom. Helen became her primary caretaker because

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<v Speaker 2>they didn't have any extended family nearby, and Helen's dad

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<v Speaker 2>spent most nights at the pub drinking.

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<v Speaker 1>My dad was a really isolated figure. He didn't have

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<v Speaker 1>many friends, he wasn't at work, he didn't have close

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<v Speaker 1>family members. He was a functioning alcoholic one hundred percent.

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<v Speaker 1>I can't remember seeing him anything but a happy drunk.

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<v Speaker 1>He wasn't aggressive, but undoubtedly he was an alcohol.

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<v Speaker 2>So Helen and her mom leaned on each other. It

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<v Speaker 2>was them against the world.

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<v Speaker 1>I had a really close relationship with my mom. She

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<v Speaker 1>was my best friend. I talked to her about everything.

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<v Speaker 1>I absolutely adored her. I thought she was perfect, absolutely perfect.

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<v Speaker 2>But her mom needed a lot of support.

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<v Speaker 1>And there was a sense of if my mom said jump,

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<v Speaker 1>then you had to jump.

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<v Speaker 2>Helen would come home from school and go straight to

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<v Speaker 2>her mom's bedside. She'd sit on the edge of the

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<v Speaker 2>bed and tell her mom about her day. Then Helen

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<v Speaker 2>would make her mom a snack and set up a

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<v Speaker 2>place for her to rest on the couch.

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<v Speaker 1>We would watch on TV together and drink a cup

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<v Speaker 1>of tea. I felt very very responsible for her. I

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<v Speaker 1>was responsible for my parents' happiness and my parents' emotional stability.

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<v Speaker 2>Eleanor's emmy was debilitating, but over time she found other

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<v Speaker 2>people who struggled with the same simils dumbs.

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<v Speaker 1>She was a part of an m group in the

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<v Speaker 1>town and ended up leading it, and so every week

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<v Speaker 1>she would have to sort of run these meetings. She'd

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<v Speaker 1>do all this research to then write newsletters for the

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<v Speaker 1>me group.

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<v Speaker 2>Helen was proud of her mom pro finding purpose in

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<v Speaker 2>community even though she was struggling with her disease.

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<v Speaker 1>She actually won an award for being a health champion.

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<v Speaker 2>Helen's mom went to bed early every night.

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<v Speaker 1>My mom would go to bed, my dad would go

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<v Speaker 1>down the pub, and I was just left to entertain myself.

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<v Speaker 1>It was important that I was silent, because if I

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<v Speaker 1>made any noise then I would wake my mom. So

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<v Speaker 1>I would watch TV with subtitles on and no sound.

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<v Speaker 2>When her own world in her little yellow house got

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<v Speaker 2>too small, Helen escaped into her dream world. She loved

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<v Speaker 2>to write.

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<v Speaker 1>I wrote a lot of stories. I wrote a story

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<v Speaker 1>about a girl who went into her loft and disappeared

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<v Speaker 1>into a wonderful alternative reality with a happy family. I

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<v Speaker 1>used to dance around the guard and singing. I'm sure

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<v Speaker 1>the neighbors loved it.

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<v Speaker 2>One day, when Helen was eight, she overheard her mom

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<v Speaker 2>talking about her dad's health.

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<v Speaker 1>I heard my mom say the doctor said he could

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<v Speaker 1>just drop dead at any minute. I remember switching around

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<v Speaker 1>and looking at her, absolutely horrified, and that weighed on

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<v Speaker 1>me for the rest of my childhood.

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<v Speaker 2>Hearing that shifted Helen's mindset. Even as a child, she

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<v Speaker 2>felt responsible for her mom. She also learned to be

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<v Speaker 2>extremely tuned into her mom. She tried to do whatever

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<v Speaker 2>she could to make her happy. Over time, Helen lost

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<v Speaker 2>track of where her mom's needs ended and where hers began.

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<v Speaker 1>She used to tell me my likes and dislikes. I

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<v Speaker 1>liked Sally, I liked strawberries. Those were my favorites. I

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<v Speaker 1>deferred to her opinion.

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<v Speaker 2>Helen learned to look to her mom for answers she

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<v Speaker 2>idolized her. As a teenager, Helen missed out on typical

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<v Speaker 2>teenage experiences because as soon as school ended, she went

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<v Speaker 2>home to take care of her parents.

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<v Speaker 1>In my teens, my average day would look like I

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<v Speaker 1>would get up and go to school. My parents were

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<v Speaker 1>both at home all day every day. My dad would

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<v Speaker 1>go to the pub every day, then my mom would

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<v Speaker 1>go for a nap every day, and then I'd come

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<v Speaker 1>home and it was just all very insulated.

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<v Speaker 2>But then when Helen was sixteen, there was finally a

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<v Speaker 2>break from their quiet, careful routine.

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<v Speaker 1>We went on this like once in a lifetime holiday.

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<v Speaker 1>We decided to go to America.

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<v Speaker 2>They planned to spend a few days in Chicago, then

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<v Speaker 2>two weeks vacationing in Wisconsin and visiting extended family that

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<v Speaker 2>lived there. Helen was worried about the strain and the

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<v Speaker 2>trip would take on her mom.

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<v Speaker 1>We went to the airport and she was in a

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<v Speaker 1>wheelchair being wheeled to the aeroplane.

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<v Speaker 2>But to Helen's surprise, we.

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<v Speaker 1>Got to America and for two weeks she was just

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<v Speaker 1>a normal mum. She was walking around. Literally, we had

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<v Speaker 1>a non stop holiday. We did something every single day.

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<v Speaker 1>We went to water shows, water parks. We got up

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<v Speaker 1>in the morning and went to a diner, and then

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<v Speaker 1>went and saw my cousins and then went out for

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<v Speaker 1>the day and did something ridiculously American, and then we

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<v Speaker 1>did something in the evening. It was just this incredible

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<v Speaker 1>experience for me, like life changing. And what was the

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<v Speaker 1>most amazing was that my parents were both well. My

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<v Speaker 1>mom said the heat made my dad's chest better.

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<v Speaker 2>The climate also seemed to help with her mom's chronic fatigue.

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<v Speaker 1>I just thought, oh, my goodness, America has cured my parents.

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<v Speaker 1>America has made them better.

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<v Speaker 2>Helen was ecstatic. It was like she slipped into a

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<v Speaker 2>better world where her parents were healthy and they were

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<v Speaker 2>a normal, happy family. But the dream didn't last.

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<v Speaker 1>We got on the plane to come home, and we

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<v Speaker 1>got back to the UK and she was back in

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<v Speaker 1>that wheelchair being wheeled back through the airport, as if

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<v Speaker 1>the last two weeks hadn't happened. It was a huge

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<v Speaker 1>moment for me. I saw what my life could be like.

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<v Speaker 1>And I was like, why are we not going to America?

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<v Speaker 1>Why are we not packing up and going because you

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<v Speaker 1>could be well, you tell me all the time how

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<v Speaker 1>you wish she could be. Well, we've got the answer.

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<v Speaker 2>Let's just go.

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<v Speaker 1>I prayed every night for my parents to be better.

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<v Speaker 1>The idea that it was within gross was just like

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<v Speaker 1>I couldn't understand.

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<v Speaker 2>On a family trip to the US, Helen's mom, who

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<v Speaker 2>was normally chronically ill and stuck in bed, experienced major

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<v Speaker 2>relief from her symptoms. Her dad, who had serious heart

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<v Speaker 2>and lung problems, was doing much better too. On their trip,

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<v Speaker 2>both her parents had energy and they went on adventures

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<v Speaker 2>together every day. Helen was overjoyed they had found a

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<v Speaker 2>cure for her parents America, but when they got back

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<v Speaker 2>to England, their symptoms became as debilitating as they were before.

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<v Speaker 2>Helen wasn't ready to accept that this was their normal again.

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<v Speaker 1>It was a huge moment in that I saw what

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<v Speaker 1>my life could be like, and I was like, why

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<v Speaker 1>are we not going to America? Why are we not

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<v Speaker 1>packing up and going because you could be well, you

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<v Speaker 1>tell me all the time how you wish she could be. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>we've got the answer, Let's just go.

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<v Speaker 2>But her parents didn't want to move to the US,

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<v Speaker 2>so Helen channeled her energy into doing well in school

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<v Speaker 2>so that she could have a life.

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<v Speaker 1>Ever on, I did really well in my A levels

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<v Speaker 1>and then off I went to university and I went

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<v Speaker 1>to Nottingham, which it isn't even the top three cities

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<v Speaker 1>in the UK. Yet I felt like I was in

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<v Speaker 1>this enormous city that was totally overwhelming. I walked through

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<v Speaker 1>ten and I didn't see anyone I knew. That was

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<v Speaker 1>really shocking to me.

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<v Speaker 2>Helen had spent her childhood in teenage years hyper focused

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<v Speaker 2>on her parents' health, living in a town where she

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<v Speaker 2>knew everyone. When she left for college, she was plunged

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<v Speaker 2>into a completely foreign world.

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<v Speaker 1>I did feel really lost. It was scary. It was

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<v Speaker 1>obviously brilliant because I never thought i'd get away. The

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<v Speaker 1>freedom was incredible. At the same time, I hadn't been

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<v Speaker 1>given any life skills by my parents.

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<v Speaker 2>Helen didn't have the same street smarts or life experiences

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<v Speaker 2>as her peers, but she certainly knew how to take

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<v Speaker 2>care of herself. She'd been doing it since she was seven.

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<v Speaker 1>So it was a really steep learning curve. I have

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<v Speaker 1>the skills to do it, and I had the confidence

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<v Speaker 1>that I'd been doing this forever and that I could

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<v Speaker 1>do it again.

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<v Speaker 2>Sure enough, Helen found her stride at college, and during

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<v Speaker 2>her first year there, she met a boy named Peter.

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<v Speaker 1>I met Peter three friends. We used to meet up

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<v Speaker 1>with another guy and another girl and just hang out.

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<v Speaker 1>Peter would walk me home and we got chatting, and

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<v Speaker 1>I found out that his dad had also had heart problems,

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<v Speaker 1>and he just understood the situation that I was in

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<v Speaker 1>in a way that no one else understood.

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<v Speaker 2>Helen and Peter began to spend more and more time together.

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<v Speaker 2>The connection between them was instant.

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<v Speaker 1>We got together and we got engaged after six months,

0:14:50.120 --> 0:14:53.640
<v Speaker 1>we got married twelve months later. It was all very whirlwind,

0:14:54.320 --> 0:14:56.840
<v Speaker 1>but at twenty one, you feel like a proper grown up,

0:14:57.040 --> 0:14:59.040
<v Speaker 1>so that's.

0:14:58.840 --> 0:15:02.680
<v Speaker 2>What you do. But Eleanor was not welcoming to Peter.

0:15:03.440 --> 0:15:06.880
<v Speaker 1>She was very mocking about my relationship, like, are you

0:15:06.960 --> 0:15:08.000
<v Speaker 1>going to call your lover?

0:15:08.400 --> 0:15:09.480
<v Speaker 2>Do you love him?

0:15:09.600 --> 0:15:14.400
<v Speaker 1>Helen? Are you in love with him? There was no safeguarding.

0:15:14.880 --> 0:15:17.360
<v Speaker 1>There was no sort of like, well hold on, let

0:15:17.400 --> 0:15:19.600
<v Speaker 1>me check this person out and see what I think

0:15:19.640 --> 0:15:21.440
<v Speaker 1>of them if you're going to marry them, and like

0:15:21.480 --> 0:15:23.800
<v Speaker 1>you're going to marry them six months after you started

0:15:23.880 --> 0:15:28.120
<v Speaker 1>dating them, Like that's actually ridiculous, you're twenty. My parents

0:15:28.160 --> 0:15:30.160
<v Speaker 1>didn't do any of that. They were just like, oh great,

0:15:31.360 --> 0:15:32.600
<v Speaker 1>let's arrange the wedding.

0:15:34.320 --> 0:15:38.840
<v Speaker 2>At first, Helen struggled to accept that Peter actually wanted

0:15:38.840 --> 0:15:39.480
<v Speaker 2>to be with her.

0:15:40.360 --> 0:15:43.720
<v Speaker 1>I spent a long time thinking that I'd put on

0:15:43.760 --> 0:15:47.480
<v Speaker 1>a mask when he met me, and that I tricked

0:15:47.560 --> 0:15:48.520
<v Speaker 1>him into marrying me.

0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:54.600
<v Speaker 2>Shortly after Helen and Peter got married, Helen's dad collapsed

0:15:54.840 --> 0:15:56.840
<v Speaker 2>and had to be rushed to the hospital.

0:15:57.560 --> 0:16:00.840
<v Speaker 1>His health declined significantly after that, so then he was

0:16:00.880 --> 0:16:05.880
<v Speaker 1>on oxygen. The last two years of his life were

0:16:05.920 --> 0:16:11.080
<v Speaker 1>a nightmare. He was just having heart attacks all the time.

0:16:11.840 --> 0:16:15.040
<v Speaker 1>It would be like four am phone calls saying this

0:16:15.240 --> 0:16:19.080
<v Speaker 1>is it, You've got to come. And I remember jumping

0:16:19.080 --> 0:16:22.160
<v Speaker 1>in the car with my husband and rushing thinking are

0:16:22.160 --> 0:16:24.160
<v Speaker 1>we going to make it? Are we going to make it?

0:16:27.160 --> 0:16:29.920
<v Speaker 2>Her whole life, Helen had been afraid that her dad

0:16:30.000 --> 0:16:33.400
<v Speaker 2>could die at any minute, but during those two years,

0:16:33.640 --> 0:16:36.800
<v Speaker 2>the constant ham of worry grew into a fever pitch.

0:16:37.720 --> 0:16:41.200
<v Speaker 1>I went into a real period of depression, really really

0:16:41.240 --> 0:16:45.360
<v Speaker 1>struggled dealing with that situation. Me and my husband had

0:16:45.440 --> 0:16:49.040
<v Speaker 1>visited one weekend. We got the phone call, then went

0:16:49.080 --> 0:16:52.760
<v Speaker 1>straight upstairs to where he was in the ward. The

0:16:52.880 --> 0:16:56.200
<v Speaker 1>nest said, I'm really sorry, but he's passed away, and

0:16:56.560 --> 0:17:00.000
<v Speaker 1>my mum just collapsed to the floor and I don't

0:17:00.000 --> 0:17:03.440
<v Speaker 1>I remember crying initially because it was all about looking

0:17:03.520 --> 0:17:06.600
<v Speaker 1>after my mom and caring for her and making sure

0:17:06.640 --> 0:17:10.719
<v Speaker 1>she was okay. I remember holding his hand and he

0:17:10.800 --> 0:17:16.080
<v Speaker 1>was still warm. His eyes were open, and I was like,

0:17:16.280 --> 0:17:19.440
<v Speaker 1>this is weird. His eyes are open. And my mom

0:17:19.480 --> 0:17:21.080
<v Speaker 1>was so snappy with me and was like, well just

0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:24.359
<v Speaker 1>close them then, and I got really upset. It just

0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:28.880
<v Speaker 1>sort of finally hit me and I said, I don't

0:17:28.880 --> 0:17:32.560
<v Speaker 1>want to leave without him, and my mom said, well,

0:17:32.600 --> 0:17:35.160
<v Speaker 1>this is it, isn't it, Helen, he's dead. Of course

0:17:35.200 --> 0:17:37.080
<v Speaker 1>he's not going to come with us.

0:17:38.880 --> 0:17:41.399
<v Speaker 2>Eleanor had no room for her daughter's grief.

0:17:42.240 --> 0:17:47.359
<v Speaker 1>This was her moment, and it wasn't about me. After

0:17:47.480 --> 0:17:50.639
<v Speaker 1>his death, she used to say to me, it was

0:17:50.800 --> 0:17:55.520
<v Speaker 1>just your dad, but it was my husband. So every

0:17:55.600 --> 0:17:59.720
<v Speaker 1>single occasion that could possibly bring up those feelings for her,

0:18:00.640 --> 0:18:03.600
<v Speaker 1>I would send her flowers, I would call I would

0:18:03.760 --> 0:18:07.640
<v Speaker 1>really make a big deal of it. And for years,

0:18:08.320 --> 0:18:11.760
<v Speaker 1>years and years, she didn't even acknowledge that Father's Day

0:18:11.840 --> 0:18:13.159
<v Speaker 1>might be a bit difficult for me.

0:18:15.680 --> 0:18:19.080
<v Speaker 2>As the years went on, Helen remained her mom's caretaker.

0:18:19.720 --> 0:18:22.439
<v Speaker 1>Because she was my mom, and because I was an

0:18:22.440 --> 0:18:24.639
<v Speaker 1>only child, it wasn't like I could just say, right,

0:18:24.680 --> 0:18:31.119
<v Speaker 1>I'm married now Celia. I couldn't let her go. I

0:18:31.119 --> 0:18:34.600
<v Speaker 1>felt very very responsible for her. We would have her

0:18:35.040 --> 0:18:39.879
<v Speaker 1>to our house every Christmas and it would be really strained.

0:18:40.080 --> 0:18:44.800
<v Speaker 1>I hated Christmas because Peter really really struggled with my

0:18:44.880 --> 0:18:50.480
<v Speaker 1>mum's behavior. My mum would be attention seeking and difficult,

0:18:51.000 --> 0:18:54.600
<v Speaker 1>and I felt like I just had to keep the peace.

0:18:56.920 --> 0:18:59.520
<v Speaker 2>Helen and Peter had been trying for a baby and

0:19:00.200 --> 0:19:05.399
<v Speaker 2>a difficult miscarriage. Finally Helen became pregnant, but the pregnancy

0:19:05.520 --> 0:19:06.879
<v Speaker 2>was quickly overshadowed.

0:19:07.800 --> 0:19:11.160
<v Speaker 1>At exactly the same time, my mum got a diagnosis

0:19:11.280 --> 0:19:19.119
<v Speaker 1>of Parkinson's disease. The consultant called it mild parkinson Ism.

0:19:19.240 --> 0:19:23.600
<v Speaker 2>Despite the early diagnosis, her mom's health was declining quickly.

0:19:24.160 --> 0:19:27.840
<v Speaker 1>She was getting worse and worse, so she was getting

0:19:27.840 --> 0:19:32.640
<v Speaker 1>more medication. She was going to these Parkinson's support groups.

0:19:33.119 --> 0:19:35.520
<v Speaker 1>She wasn't interested in how my pregnancy was going. She

0:19:35.560 --> 0:19:39.720
<v Speaker 1>wasn't interested in what scans I'd had, She wasn't interested

0:19:39.800 --> 0:19:43.000
<v Speaker 1>in me thinking about baby names. She just wanted to

0:19:43.080 --> 0:19:44.720
<v Speaker 1>talk about Parkinson's disease.

0:19:46.440 --> 0:19:50.840
<v Speaker 2>Soon Eleanor required constant care and moved into a nursing home.

0:19:51.280 --> 0:19:56.000
<v Speaker 1>She started having fools and it was happening so frequently

0:19:56.640 --> 0:19:59.600
<v Speaker 1>that the paramedics were actually told on her notes not

0:19:59.680 --> 0:20:00.840
<v Speaker 1>to take to a hospital.

0:20:02.720 --> 0:20:05.199
<v Speaker 2>Helen tried to be there for her mom. It was

0:20:05.280 --> 0:20:08.480
<v Speaker 2>hard to see her struggling in this way. She visited

0:20:08.480 --> 0:20:11.560
<v Speaker 2>the nursing home often, and one day they had plans

0:20:11.600 --> 0:20:14.359
<v Speaker 2>to go shopping in town together, so Helen went to

0:20:14.359 --> 0:20:17.240
<v Speaker 2>go pick her mom up. When she got there, her

0:20:17.280 --> 0:20:20.280
<v Speaker 2>mom was sitting on the couch and then she sort.

0:20:20.000 --> 0:20:28.880
<v Speaker 1>Of pretended to fall. It was very slow motion, and

0:20:30.400 --> 0:20:32.600
<v Speaker 1>when she got to the floor, she said, oh, my goodness,

0:20:32.640 --> 0:20:34.520
<v Speaker 1>did you see that? I just fell off the sofa.

0:20:35.520 --> 0:20:41.000
<v Speaker 1>And I was like, not really, and she said I

0:20:41.040 --> 0:20:42.800
<v Speaker 1>need to go to bed. And I was like, okay,

0:20:42.880 --> 0:20:45.720
<v Speaker 1>come on then, you know, i'll help you up. I'll

0:20:45.720 --> 0:20:49.119
<v Speaker 1>put you to bed. And she said I can't walk,

0:20:49.560 --> 0:20:51.920
<v Speaker 1>You'll have to carry me. And I said, well, i'll

0:20:51.920 --> 0:20:56.159
<v Speaker 1>help you, but like I can't carry you, you know,

0:20:56.240 --> 0:21:02.440
<v Speaker 1>come on, get up, and she sort of turned demonic.

0:21:04.320 --> 0:21:09.560
<v Speaker 1>She was sort of crawling along the floor and saying, fine, oh,

0:21:09.800 --> 0:21:12.800
<v Speaker 1>cruel there, then, is this what you want? Is this

0:21:12.880 --> 0:21:14.800
<v Speaker 1>what you want from me? Lift a bitch?

0:21:19.440 --> 0:21:22.400
<v Speaker 2>Her mom had never used a word like that before.

0:21:22.960 --> 0:21:24.080
<v Speaker 2>And it shook Helen.

0:21:25.000 --> 0:21:28.600
<v Speaker 1>It was kind of terrifying, so I ended up hiding

0:21:28.640 --> 0:21:32.160
<v Speaker 1>in the kitchen, thinking what am I going to do.

0:21:34.400 --> 0:21:38.640
<v Speaker 1>I tried calling Peter and he was like, just leave,

0:21:39.720 --> 0:21:41.280
<v Speaker 1>but I didn't feel like I could leave.

0:21:42.280 --> 0:21:46.719
<v Speaker 2>After that, Helen stopped visiting her husband. Peter supported her

0:21:46.800 --> 0:21:48.720
<v Speaker 2>decision to pull back from her mother.

0:21:49.359 --> 0:21:52.000
<v Speaker 1>We were having to kind of back off her more

0:21:52.080 --> 0:21:55.280
<v Speaker 1>and more and we would just be like, Okay, she

0:21:55.320 --> 0:21:56.960
<v Speaker 1>can't be around the children anymore.

0:21:57.720 --> 0:22:02.840
<v Speaker 2>Eleanor's health was declining rapidly. Doctors were constantly scrambling to

0:22:02.880 --> 0:22:04.240
<v Speaker 2>help her and find answers.

0:22:04.960 --> 0:22:08.879
<v Speaker 1>She bound her hands up into fists so that she

0:22:08.920 --> 0:22:15.240
<v Speaker 1>couldn't unclench them. She wasn't eating, she was just getting

0:22:15.240 --> 0:22:20.359
<v Speaker 1>worse and worse. She was referred to a hospital where

0:22:20.359 --> 0:22:23.120
<v Speaker 1>they did every test end of the sum They literally

0:22:23.160 --> 0:22:28.680
<v Speaker 1>tested her for everything, and eventually they said that they

0:22:28.680 --> 0:22:31.840
<v Speaker 1>had found nothing physically or mentally wrong with my mum,

0:22:32.400 --> 0:22:39.080
<v Speaker 1>but she would die in the next few months. By

0:22:39.119 --> 0:22:42.880
<v Speaker 1>that point, I'd spent three four years banging my head

0:22:42.880 --> 0:22:45.119
<v Speaker 1>on a brick wall trying to get someone to listen

0:22:45.160 --> 0:22:49.000
<v Speaker 1>to me, to say this isn't right, something's wrong, and

0:22:49.040 --> 0:22:51.720
<v Speaker 1>I need you to find out what's going on, and

0:22:51.760 --> 0:22:54.600
<v Speaker 1>they basically said to me, we've tested her for everything

0:22:54.760 --> 0:22:55.880
<v Speaker 1>and we can't help.

0:22:57.760 --> 0:23:00.200
<v Speaker 2>Doctors had run out of ways to help her mom,

0:23:00.520 --> 0:23:01.399
<v Speaker 2>and Helen had to.

0:23:02.760 --> 0:23:04.919
<v Speaker 1>I tried to stay in contact with her, but she

0:23:05.480 --> 0:23:09.639
<v Speaker 1>didn't really want it. Obviously. There was a massive decision

0:23:10.000 --> 0:23:12.320
<v Speaker 1>not to go and see her in her final months.

0:23:13.160 --> 0:23:17.320
<v Speaker 1>I decided it was better this way. I mean, that's

0:23:17.359 --> 0:23:21.399
<v Speaker 1>a horrible decision to make and not something I took lightly,

0:23:22.200 --> 0:23:24.840
<v Speaker 1>but actually having contact with her was more damaging.

0:23:25.840 --> 0:23:29.080
<v Speaker 2>It was painful for Helen not to visit. She still

0:23:29.160 --> 0:23:33.080
<v Speaker 2>loved her mom very much. She got occasional updates from

0:23:33.119 --> 0:23:36.679
<v Speaker 2>the medical team. One day, the call was different.

0:23:39.400 --> 0:23:42.640
<v Speaker 1>I'd had this phone call a few days earlier saying

0:23:42.840 --> 0:23:46.480
<v Speaker 1>your mom's got a mouth infection. I was like, okay,

0:23:47.160 --> 0:23:49.800
<v Speaker 1>so will you let me know how that goes then,

0:23:49.960 --> 0:23:52.280
<v Speaker 1>and like call me back in a few days, and

0:23:52.280 --> 0:23:55.880
<v Speaker 1>they were like, well, yeah, it might not be that long.

0:23:57.600 --> 0:24:00.680
<v Speaker 1>A few days later they rang me and they said,

0:24:00.760 --> 0:24:01.720
<v Speaker 1>your mom's died.

0:24:05.600 --> 0:24:09.959
<v Speaker 2>For a moment, everything stood still. Helen's mom had been

0:24:10.000 --> 0:24:13.719
<v Speaker 2>the center of her attention for her entire life. Her

0:24:13.760 --> 0:24:17.040
<v Speaker 2>mom's sickness had been the guiding force in every decision

0:24:17.119 --> 0:24:22.080
<v Speaker 2>she made. And now it was all over, with her gone,

0:24:22.520 --> 0:24:26.760
<v Speaker 2>everything was all mixed up. Nothing made sense, not even

0:24:26.840 --> 0:24:27.719
<v Speaker 2>her own grief.

0:24:30.000 --> 0:24:33.399
<v Speaker 1>It was a shock. It was a real shock because

0:24:33.440 --> 0:24:37.320
<v Speaker 1>we were estranged. I think quite a few people thought

0:24:38.160 --> 0:24:42.880
<v Speaker 1>I wouldn't grief, or perhaps I wouldn't feel sad about it.

0:24:42.880 --> 0:24:46.359
<v Speaker 1>It's just such a complex grief. It isn't straightforward, it

0:24:46.400 --> 0:24:51.680
<v Speaker 1>isn't normal. It was worse than my dad. My dad,

0:24:51.720 --> 0:24:56.000
<v Speaker 1>I was sad, but it was really straightforward. I missed him,

0:24:56.280 --> 0:24:59.119
<v Speaker 1>and I was sad that he was gone, whereas this

0:24:59.280 --> 0:25:00.720
<v Speaker 1>was so much more or complex.

0:25:03.160 --> 0:25:06.040
<v Speaker 2>Ever since she was a little girl, Helen used her

0:25:06.080 --> 0:25:08.479
<v Speaker 2>writing as a tool to make sense of her messy

0:25:08.600 --> 0:25:09.679
<v Speaker 2>and confusing world.

0:25:10.400 --> 0:25:13.120
<v Speaker 1>That's a way of me making sense of things and

0:25:14.320 --> 0:25:17.160
<v Speaker 1>getting things straight in my head. So it was kind

0:25:17.200 --> 0:25:21.000
<v Speaker 1>of a natural reaction for me to write about what

0:25:21.040 --> 0:25:21.680
<v Speaker 1>had happened.

0:25:22.480 --> 0:25:25.240
<v Speaker 2>Helen began writing a book about her life with her mom,

0:25:25.520 --> 0:25:28.560
<v Speaker 2>and as a part of her writing process, she decided

0:25:28.600 --> 0:25:30.040
<v Speaker 2>to read her mom's diaries.

0:25:30.880 --> 0:25:34.320
<v Speaker 1>I knew that my mom had written daily diaries. I'd

0:25:34.359 --> 0:25:36.719
<v Speaker 1>seen her writing them when I was a teenager, so

0:25:36.760 --> 0:25:38.960
<v Speaker 1>she'd written it from when she was twelve till the

0:25:39.040 --> 0:25:42.000
<v Speaker 1>year before she died, and she was on it. She

0:25:42.119 --> 0:25:44.760
<v Speaker 1>really didn't miss a day, and so I decided that

0:25:44.800 --> 0:25:47.760
<v Speaker 1>I needed to read them as part of writing this.

0:25:48.720 --> 0:25:52.000
<v Speaker 2>This wasn't one or two diaries. Her mom had made

0:25:52.080 --> 0:25:55.800
<v Speaker 2>daily entries for fifty five years.

0:25:55.680 --> 0:25:59.840
<v Speaker 1>So obviously that is a huge amount to read. It

0:26:00.040 --> 0:26:02.159
<v Speaker 1>took a while. It took me probably at least a

0:26:02.280 --> 0:26:04.199
<v Speaker 1>year to read them, and I did have to have

0:26:04.320 --> 0:26:07.440
<v Speaker 1>breaks because it was quite a lot.

0:26:08.920 --> 0:26:11.240
<v Speaker 2>At first glance, these entries were boring.

0:26:12.040 --> 0:26:16.640
<v Speaker 1>She just writes about the basics, the weather, where's she being,

0:26:16.720 --> 0:26:19.840
<v Speaker 1>what she done. There's no real feelings. A few read

0:26:19.840 --> 0:26:22.639
<v Speaker 1>my diaries from when I was a teenager. Gosh, the

0:26:22.720 --> 0:26:25.480
<v Speaker 1>teenage ants that would seep out of those pages, and

0:26:25.560 --> 0:26:30.879
<v Speaker 1>yet there's nothing like that in my mom's diaries. She

0:26:30.920 --> 0:26:37.080
<v Speaker 1>doesn't fancy anyone, she doesn't have any friendship problems, there's

0:26:37.160 --> 0:26:39.199
<v Speaker 1>no feelings.

0:26:39.720 --> 0:26:43.280
<v Speaker 2>Reading the diaries became part of Helen's daily routine. She

0:26:43.359 --> 0:26:46.320
<v Speaker 2>was slowly reading her way through her mom's life from

0:26:46.400 --> 0:26:48.639
<v Speaker 2>when she was twelve years old onwards.

0:26:49.280 --> 0:26:51.800
<v Speaker 1>I read it like i'd read a novel or something.

0:26:51.920 --> 0:26:55.080
<v Speaker 1>I just always had one with me. They were tiny

0:26:55.440 --> 0:26:57.760
<v Speaker 1>so I could just keep them in my handbag, and

0:26:57.920 --> 0:27:00.720
<v Speaker 1>whenever I had five minutes, I just read it few pages.

0:27:01.960 --> 0:27:04.800
<v Speaker 2>Over the years, Helen had heard her mom tell the

0:27:04.840 --> 0:27:08.080
<v Speaker 2>story of her life many times. She knew it well.

0:27:08.880 --> 0:27:11.760
<v Speaker 1>What I expected to find was exactly what she'd told me.

0:27:12.680 --> 0:27:17.760
<v Speaker 1>She'd had a really hard childhood with a really difficult

0:27:17.800 --> 0:27:23.440
<v Speaker 1>sister and difficult parents, and then she'd had a really

0:27:23.480 --> 0:27:28.280
<v Speaker 1>successful time at work, met my dad decided to have me,

0:27:28.520 --> 0:27:32.480
<v Speaker 1>and then from that point she'd got ill. And that

0:27:32.560 --> 0:27:33.680
<v Speaker 1>was just completely wrong.

0:27:34.520 --> 0:27:38.040
<v Speaker 2>Helen started reading passages in her mom's diary that diverged

0:27:38.040 --> 0:27:42.560
<v Speaker 2>from the story she'd been told. Then Helen saw the

0:27:42.640 --> 0:27:44.880
<v Speaker 2>line that stopped her in her tracks.

0:27:45.400 --> 0:28:00.480
<v Speaker 1>She writes, I have found my illness.

0:28:08.840 --> 0:28:11.320
<v Speaker 2>After her mother died, Helen decided to write a book

0:28:11.359 --> 0:28:13.280
<v Speaker 2>about what it was like growing up with her as

0:28:13.320 --> 0:28:16.840
<v Speaker 2>a parent. As part of her writing process, she read

0:28:16.880 --> 0:28:19.600
<v Speaker 2>through the daily diaries her mom had kept for over

0:28:19.720 --> 0:28:24.320
<v Speaker 2>fifty years. That's when Helen saw the line that changed everything.

0:28:25.240 --> 0:28:28.639
<v Speaker 1>She writes, I have found my illness.

0:28:29.320 --> 0:28:32.159
<v Speaker 2>Helen read and reread the words to make sure she

0:28:32.359 --> 0:28:36.000
<v Speaker 2>wasn't imagining it, but there it was in her mom's handwriting.

0:28:37.119 --> 0:28:40.320
<v Speaker 2>For the first time she learned the real story of

0:28:40.360 --> 0:28:45.920
<v Speaker 2>how her mom got diagnosed with EMMY.

0:28:46.080 --> 0:28:49.840
<v Speaker 1>She goes on to nag the doctor to diagnose her,

0:28:50.600 --> 0:28:55.920
<v Speaker 1>and then verylically, she's into getting the sick, getting mobility scooters.

0:28:57.760 --> 0:29:01.120
<v Speaker 2>The picture came into focus. Her mom had handpicked her

0:29:01.160 --> 0:29:05.880
<v Speaker 2>illness and then spent years performing it. The diaries revealed

0:29:05.920 --> 0:29:09.600
<v Speaker 2>an elaborate deception, the tale of a double life that

0:29:09.680 --> 0:29:13.680
<v Speaker 2>her mother lived, one where she was perfectly healthy.

0:29:14.120 --> 0:29:19.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, one part, she's recording how ill she is every day,

0:29:19.440 --> 0:29:22.680
<v Speaker 1>and yet it doesn't actually match up to what she's doing.

0:29:22.840 --> 0:29:25.400
<v Speaker 1>So she'll say, this was a really bad day, and

0:29:25.480 --> 0:29:30.080
<v Speaker 1>yet she's been apple picking, or you know, this was

0:29:30.120 --> 0:29:32.840
<v Speaker 1>a really terrible day. I went shopping all day.

0:29:33.840 --> 0:29:36.440
<v Speaker 2>It was possible for Helen's bomb to fake having m

0:29:36.560 --> 0:29:39.880
<v Speaker 2>E because there was no definitive way to test for it.

0:29:40.360 --> 0:29:43.880
<v Speaker 2>Diagnoses were primarily based on a patient's own account of

0:29:43.880 --> 0:29:47.560
<v Speaker 2>their symptoms, and most of the time people don't lie

0:29:47.640 --> 0:29:52.160
<v Speaker 2>to doctors. Most people don't choose to be bedridden.

0:29:52.960 --> 0:29:54.800
<v Speaker 1>At the time. It was almost like, you don't have

0:29:54.880 --> 0:29:56.560
<v Speaker 1>anything else, so it must be this.

0:29:58.080 --> 0:30:02.200
<v Speaker 2>For her whole childhood, Helen was consumed with worry, watching

0:30:02.200 --> 0:30:05.520
<v Speaker 2>her mom lay in bed in chronic pain. When Helen

0:30:05.560 --> 0:30:08.960
<v Speaker 2>went after school. She was constantly concerned about how her

0:30:09.000 --> 0:30:12.320
<v Speaker 2>mom would take care of herself. But the diary told

0:30:12.400 --> 0:30:13.600
<v Speaker 2>a very different story.

0:30:15.360 --> 0:30:17.520
<v Speaker 1>The thing she said to me and to other people

0:30:17.560 --> 0:30:19.880
<v Speaker 1>about how she needed to rest and plan and do

0:30:19.960 --> 0:30:23.400
<v Speaker 1>all that, that's just out the window. None of it

0:30:23.480 --> 0:30:28.040
<v Speaker 1>was true. She was going apple picking, and she was

0:30:28.080 --> 0:30:30.160
<v Speaker 1>going on city trips and going shopping.

0:30:31.840 --> 0:30:34.240
<v Speaker 2>That really hurt.

0:30:36.120 --> 0:30:40.200
<v Speaker 1>My whole childhood was shaped by the emmy what she

0:30:40.280 --> 0:30:46.440
<v Speaker 1>couldn't do, and it wasn't true. She could have just

0:30:46.480 --> 0:30:50.560
<v Speaker 1>been a totally normal mum.

0:30:50.600 --> 0:30:54.400
<v Speaker 2>Helen couldn't believe what she was reading. She felt sick.

0:30:55.400 --> 0:30:58.160
<v Speaker 1>I was unraveling what had happened and what had happened

0:30:58.200 --> 0:31:03.120
<v Speaker 1>to me, My story of how I am the child

0:31:03.200 --> 0:31:07.200
<v Speaker 1>of two disabled parents and have cared for them. That's

0:31:07.200 --> 0:31:09.400
<v Speaker 1>actually a lie.

0:31:09.640 --> 0:31:12.560
<v Speaker 2>We could have been living a normal life for years.

0:31:12.640 --> 0:31:16.120
<v Speaker 2>Helen's mom lived a lie. But it didn't make sense

0:31:16.160 --> 0:31:19.320
<v Speaker 2>to Helen. Why would her mom choose this?

0:31:20.320 --> 0:31:24.320
<v Speaker 1>She had money, she had health, she had friends, She

0:31:24.360 --> 0:31:28.000
<v Speaker 1>could have had a really good life, and yet she

0:31:28.240 --> 0:31:31.400
<v Speaker 1>chose something so destructive.

0:31:32.120 --> 0:31:35.680
<v Speaker 2>Helen scoured her mom's diaries trying to find an answer.

0:31:37.120 --> 0:31:40.360
<v Speaker 1>It was like she was totally unveiling herself. Her mask

0:31:40.560 --> 0:31:45.080
<v Speaker 1>sort of slips, and she writes about how everyone is special,

0:31:45.560 --> 0:31:50.760
<v Speaker 1>but I'm really special, and just goes into this rant

0:31:51.160 --> 0:31:53.880
<v Speaker 1>about how special she is and how no one has

0:31:53.920 --> 0:31:55.880
<v Speaker 1>appreciated how special she is.

0:31:56.720 --> 0:32:00.360
<v Speaker 2>Helen started to get an understanding of her mom's inner world.

0:32:00.880 --> 0:32:06.520
<v Speaker 1>She had been a narcissist from birth. There's always a

0:32:06.640 --> 0:32:10.480
<v Speaker 1>huge vanity. So she talks about how beautiful she is

0:32:10.840 --> 0:32:15.520
<v Speaker 1>and how long her legs are, how slender her hands are,

0:32:15.920 --> 0:32:19.160
<v Speaker 1>in a way I can't even imagine writing about myself.

0:32:20.600 --> 0:32:23.440
<v Speaker 2>Helen's mom had always told her that she'd gotten sick

0:32:23.520 --> 0:32:26.840
<v Speaker 2>after giving birth to her, that before that she had

0:32:26.880 --> 0:32:30.280
<v Speaker 2>lived a happy, healthy life, But her diaries told a

0:32:30.280 --> 0:32:33.800
<v Speaker 2>different story. As Helen read, it was like she was

0:32:33.840 --> 0:32:37.920
<v Speaker 2>being reintroduced to her own mother. Eleanor's pattern of fake

0:32:38.000 --> 0:32:40.719
<v Speaker 2>illnesses had started when she was a child.

0:32:41.800 --> 0:32:44.400
<v Speaker 1>What was really striking for me was that from the

0:32:44.440 --> 0:32:48.360
<v Speaker 1>beginning she was obsessed with illness. In her twenties and

0:32:48.400 --> 0:32:51.520
<v Speaker 1>we're talking about early twenties, she's constantly going to the

0:32:51.560 --> 0:32:57.880
<v Speaker 1>doctor for things breast scams, brain scams. Has she broken this?

0:32:58.040 --> 0:33:01.240
<v Speaker 1>Has she done this, you know everything, She's been constantly

0:33:01.360 --> 0:33:04.320
<v Speaker 1>checked for, and she doesn't just take what the doctor says.

0:33:04.320 --> 0:33:06.920
<v Speaker 1>She needs to go to the consultant and has the

0:33:07.000 --> 0:33:14.160
<v Speaker 1>highest opinion on things. I really didn't expect the obsession

0:33:14.200 --> 0:33:16.640
<v Speaker 1>to be so early.

0:33:16.720 --> 0:33:19.840
<v Speaker 2>Eleanor's view of her own life was at best self

0:33:19.880 --> 0:33:24.520
<v Speaker 2>centered and at worst delusional. Her entries paint a picture

0:33:24.600 --> 0:33:27.840
<v Speaker 2>of a world where she is in complete control. Like

0:33:27.880 --> 0:33:30.000
<v Speaker 2>when she wrote about getting pregnant with Helen.

0:33:30.640 --> 0:33:34.280
<v Speaker 1>Nothing about wanting a baby, nothing about thinking about a

0:33:34.360 --> 0:33:36.719
<v Speaker 1>family is one day, she just writes in her diary,

0:33:36.880 --> 0:33:43.600
<v Speaker 1>decided I was pregnant. So she's some sort of omnipotent god.

0:33:43.680 --> 0:33:45.520
<v Speaker 1>She's created a pregnancy.

0:33:47.120 --> 0:33:49.960
<v Speaker 2>As she read on, Helen came across something else that

0:33:50.080 --> 0:33:54.920
<v Speaker 2>was incredibly disturbing. Events from her own childhood that she

0:33:55.040 --> 0:33:58.720
<v Speaker 2>had no memory of. Her mom had abused her growing up,

0:33:59.360 --> 0:34:01.560
<v Speaker 2>and she died mented it in her diaries.

0:34:02.160 --> 0:34:05.080
<v Speaker 1>She drugged me. I was six months old, and she

0:34:05.120 --> 0:34:09.520
<v Speaker 1>feeds me Chinese food washed down with whiskey. When I

0:34:09.600 --> 0:34:12.919
<v Speaker 1>was a week old, she went shopping and just left

0:34:12.960 --> 0:34:18.200
<v Speaker 1>me at home. It's neglect, but it's also abuse, And

0:34:18.239 --> 0:34:22.560
<v Speaker 1>I really didn't expect to find that what was really

0:34:22.600 --> 0:34:26.000
<v Speaker 1>hard about reading. It was that there'd be months of

0:34:26.040 --> 0:34:29.040
<v Speaker 1>her talking about the weather or going to the supermarket,

0:34:29.280 --> 0:34:33.239
<v Speaker 1>and then suddenly there would be she's drugged me, or

0:34:33.680 --> 0:34:40.640
<v Speaker 1>she's in some way injured me. It's just so emotionless.

0:34:41.440 --> 0:34:45.880
<v Speaker 1>She's so cool. She doesn't try to hide anything which

0:34:45.920 --> 0:34:48.840
<v Speaker 1>is interesting or make excuses for anything.

0:34:50.000 --> 0:34:53.080
<v Speaker 2>One of Helen's earliest memories was falling off a chair

0:34:53.120 --> 0:34:56.279
<v Speaker 2>and breaking her arm, but as she read through her

0:34:56.280 --> 0:34:59.400
<v Speaker 2>mom's diaries, she learned that didn't happen the way she

0:34:59.440 --> 0:35:02.920
<v Speaker 2>remembered it. Her mom talks about having broken Helen's arm

0:35:03.000 --> 0:35:06.360
<v Speaker 2>herself when Helen was only two.

0:35:06.520 --> 0:35:11.160
<v Speaker 1>According to the diaries, she did it. I definitely broke

0:35:11.200 --> 0:35:15.360
<v Speaker 1>my arm. My mom probably caused it, and I don't

0:35:15.360 --> 0:35:15.799
<v Speaker 1>know how.

0:35:17.040 --> 0:35:21.080
<v Speaker 2>Helen learned that social services got involved and somehow her

0:35:21.120 --> 0:35:25.399
<v Speaker 2>mom explained the injury away.

0:35:26.440 --> 0:35:29.479
<v Speaker 1>Reading that when I had small children and I've got

0:35:29.520 --> 0:35:32.520
<v Speaker 1>a very recently two year old, I can see how

0:35:32.520 --> 0:35:35.480
<v Speaker 1>small her arm is, and I can see how easy

0:35:35.520 --> 0:35:36.480
<v Speaker 1>that would be to break.

0:35:36.600 --> 0:35:41.040
<v Speaker 2>As an adult, Helen's mind turned to her father. He

0:35:41.200 --> 0:35:43.880
<v Speaker 2>had been there and witnessed a lot of the abuse,

0:35:44.520 --> 0:35:48.120
<v Speaker 2>so in many ways he was complicit, but it seems

0:35:48.160 --> 0:35:50.879
<v Speaker 2>like Eleanor had a lot of power over him too.

0:35:53.400 --> 0:35:57.160
<v Speaker 1>I can make excuses for him. I can say that

0:35:57.280 --> 0:36:01.879
<v Speaker 1>he was a man of a differents who relied on

0:36:01.920 --> 0:36:05.319
<v Speaker 1>the fact that his wife was the mother and that

0:36:05.400 --> 0:36:09.400
<v Speaker 1>she would know everything and do the right thing. I

0:36:09.760 --> 0:36:14.480
<v Speaker 1>can say that he was isolated, and that I suspect

0:36:14.600 --> 0:36:16.839
<v Speaker 1>she said she'd leave him and take me with her.

0:36:18.239 --> 0:36:22.560
<v Speaker 1>Does that excuse it all? No? Do I think he

0:36:22.680 --> 0:36:27.120
<v Speaker 1>had a really awful life. Yeah, So it's just like

0:36:27.239 --> 0:36:29.480
<v Speaker 1>holding all of those things at the same time.

0:36:30.440 --> 0:36:34.120
<v Speaker 2>Growing up, Helen had carried immense guilt for ruining her

0:36:34.120 --> 0:36:37.720
<v Speaker 2>mom's life. She knew her mom had gotten sick after

0:36:37.760 --> 0:36:41.080
<v Speaker 2>she was born. She felt like everything was her fault.

0:36:41.800 --> 0:36:45.600
<v Speaker 2>But now Helen revised the story of her life. Her

0:36:45.640 --> 0:36:48.600
<v Speaker 2>mom had gone down a dark path long before she

0:36:48.719 --> 0:36:51.879
<v Speaker 2>was born, and none of it was her fault.

0:36:52.080 --> 0:36:55.600
<v Speaker 1>It was really like, oh gosh, this hasn't been the

0:36:55.640 --> 0:36:59.200
<v Speaker 1>story that I thought it was going to be. I

0:36:59.239 --> 0:37:02.640
<v Speaker 1>really believe I'd ruined her life, that she'd had me

0:37:02.680 --> 0:37:06.840
<v Speaker 1>and I had breaken everything, that if I haven't existed,

0:37:07.680 --> 0:37:13.680
<v Speaker 1>she would have had a happy life. And that's not

0:37:13.719 --> 0:37:17.560
<v Speaker 1>what I read at all. This was always going to happen.

0:37:17.600 --> 0:37:19.200
<v Speaker 1>It didn't matter whether I was there or not.

0:37:23.040 --> 0:37:27.319
<v Speaker 2>Every neatly penciled, diligently dated diary entry was like a

0:37:27.360 --> 0:37:31.440
<v Speaker 2>puzzle piece. At first, it was a scrambled and confusing mess,

0:37:32.000 --> 0:37:36.000
<v Speaker 2>but slowly pieces started to click into place. Helen saw

0:37:36.040 --> 0:37:40.920
<v Speaker 2>that everything, the narcissism, the faked illness, was all connected.

0:37:42.360 --> 0:37:45.600
<v Speaker 2>Her mom was not sick with EMMY or Parkinson's. She

0:37:45.719 --> 0:37:50.320
<v Speaker 2>was mentally ill with a condition called Munchausen syndrome. People

0:37:50.360 --> 0:37:54.120
<v Speaker 2>with Munchausen's fake or exaggerate medical conditions as a means

0:37:54.120 --> 0:37:56.520
<v Speaker 2>of gaining control, sympathy, or power.

0:37:57.440 --> 0:38:00.400
<v Speaker 1>What I realized was that for women with not statistic

0:38:00.480 --> 0:38:06.680
<v Speaker 1>personality disorder, it often doesn't look like masculine narcissism. It

0:38:06.719 --> 0:38:12.120
<v Speaker 1>often looks like victimhood. It's about getting attention and about

0:38:12.200 --> 0:38:17.799
<v Speaker 1>being the poor little woman. Munchasen's is kind of perfect

0:38:17.920 --> 0:38:21.520
<v Speaker 1>for that, because who questions an ill person and says,

0:38:21.560 --> 0:38:24.200
<v Speaker 1>I think you're making it up? Who would do that?

0:38:25.680 --> 0:38:28.400
<v Speaker 1>Without the diaries, I think I would still be in

0:38:28.440 --> 0:38:31.759
<v Speaker 1>the dark. I don't think I would have properly been

0:38:31.800 --> 0:38:36.839
<v Speaker 1>able to pull the pieces together. There's lots of events

0:38:37.000 --> 0:38:39.879
<v Speaker 1>that I see differently now.

0:38:40.680 --> 0:38:44.320
<v Speaker 2>Like the trip to America, where her parents seemed miraculously cured.

0:38:45.320 --> 0:38:47.640
<v Speaker 2>Her mom could choose when she felt well based on

0:38:47.719 --> 0:38:51.080
<v Speaker 2>what was convenient for her, and her dad hadn't actually

0:38:51.160 --> 0:38:54.440
<v Speaker 2>been doing as well as her mom told her.

0:38:55.040 --> 0:38:59.280
<v Speaker 1>My mum said to me, Dad is better in the heat,

0:38:59.800 --> 0:39:03.560
<v Speaker 1>and yeah, at the same time, I remember him gasping

0:39:03.719 --> 0:39:08.200
<v Speaker 1>for air because it was so hot and he couldn't breathe.

0:39:09.280 --> 0:39:13.480
<v Speaker 1>And I didn't realize that those two things were opposites

0:39:13.800 --> 0:39:16.160
<v Speaker 1>until I wrote my book and my agent said to

0:39:16.200 --> 0:39:20.439
<v Speaker 1>me which one was it? And I was like, oh,

0:39:20.520 --> 0:39:26.280
<v Speaker 1>my goodness, I've held this for thirty years and never

0:39:26.320 --> 0:39:30.840
<v Speaker 1>put it together. My dad wasn't better there, but she

0:39:31.040 --> 0:39:34.560
<v Speaker 1>told me that he was, so I believed her. It

0:39:34.600 --> 0:39:38.840
<v Speaker 1>seems incredible. I don't think you can underestimate the power

0:39:39.239 --> 0:39:44.720
<v Speaker 1>that a parent has over a child. I was talking

0:39:44.760 --> 0:39:48.799
<v Speaker 1>to my daughter about a cushion downstairs once and I

0:39:48.800 --> 0:39:50.799
<v Speaker 1>said to her, the gray one, you know, the gray one.

0:39:50.840 --> 0:39:53.200
<v Speaker 1>She was like, in the blue one. I was like, no,

0:39:53.640 --> 0:39:56.880
<v Speaker 1>the gray one, the gray one. She was like, oh okay,

0:39:57.840 --> 0:40:00.719
<v Speaker 1>And she said she was trying to convince her that

0:40:00.920 --> 0:40:04.200
<v Speaker 1>this blue cushion was gray because I'd said that it

0:40:04.320 --> 0:40:07.319
<v Speaker 1>was gray, and when I got downstairs, I was like, oh,

0:40:07.360 --> 0:40:09.840
<v Speaker 1>it's not gray, it's blue. Sorry, I got that wrong.

0:40:10.440 --> 0:40:14.680
<v Speaker 1>But the power that we have as adults over children

0:40:14.800 --> 0:40:17.000
<v Speaker 1>to say that this is this that even when you're

0:40:17.120 --> 0:40:20.839
<v Speaker 1>looking at something, you're like, my mom must be right,

0:40:21.120 --> 0:40:25.720
<v Speaker 1>so I must be seeing this wrong. If you need

0:40:25.760 --> 0:40:29.000
<v Speaker 1>to accept the lie to live, then you accept the

0:40:29.040 --> 0:40:29.480
<v Speaker 1>lie right.

0:40:32.200 --> 0:40:34.759
<v Speaker 2>Slowly, Helen began writing the book about her mom.

0:40:36.000 --> 0:40:38.279
<v Speaker 1>It took me quite a few attempts to write it

0:40:38.400 --> 0:40:44.920
<v Speaker 1>because I didn't really know how to put it all together.

0:40:46.239 --> 0:40:49.360
<v Speaker 1>She wasn't a cartoon villain.

0:40:50.400 --> 0:40:53.560
<v Speaker 2>Helen pulled together all the strands of truth and fiction

0:40:53.920 --> 0:40:57.320
<v Speaker 2>that had shaped her world growing up, her mom's version

0:40:57.360 --> 0:41:01.360
<v Speaker 2>of events, her own memories, and the diary. She published

0:41:01.360 --> 0:41:04.840
<v Speaker 2>her book, which is titled My Mother Munchausen's and Me.

0:41:06.800 --> 0:41:09.280
<v Speaker 1>I thought I was going to be the only person

0:41:09.280 --> 0:41:12.480
<v Speaker 1>in the whole world who had been through this. That

0:41:12.600 --> 0:41:17.200
<v Speaker 1>turned out to be completely wrong. I have had probably

0:41:17.360 --> 0:41:20.600
<v Speaker 1>one hundred people contact me from all over the world.

0:41:21.400 --> 0:41:23.439
<v Speaker 1>Some people have told me that I've explained their life

0:41:23.480 --> 0:41:28.120
<v Speaker 1>to them, and you know, I've had people saying I'm

0:41:28.160 --> 0:41:31.640
<v Speaker 1>sixty and I've just realized what's happened.

0:41:32.840 --> 0:41:37.360
<v Speaker 2>Helen realized she had concrete answers that many people in

0:41:37.440 --> 0:41:39.400
<v Speaker 2>her situation never get.

0:41:39.960 --> 0:41:42.720
<v Speaker 1>I've got the diaries, and I've got so much proof

0:41:42.760 --> 0:41:45.040
<v Speaker 1>in a way that a lot of people don't. I

0:41:45.080 --> 0:41:48.719
<v Speaker 1>think I'm quite unusual in that a lot of people

0:41:48.800 --> 0:41:53.719
<v Speaker 1>who've been through something like this unsurprisingly go down some

0:41:53.760 --> 0:41:57.080
<v Speaker 1>really dark roads with their mental health and with ways

0:41:57.120 --> 0:42:01.959
<v Speaker 1>of coping with that. And for some reason I've got

0:42:02.040 --> 0:42:04.960
<v Speaker 1>through this and being able to write about it, which

0:42:05.800 --> 0:42:08.440
<v Speaker 1>is quite unusual. But it is amazing because I can

0:42:08.960 --> 0:42:13.000
<v Speaker 1>hopefully verbalize for people who can't say it, what's happened.

0:42:14.880 --> 0:42:17.400
<v Speaker 2>Helen will never be able to get those years of

0:42:17.440 --> 0:42:18.520
<v Speaker 2>her childhood back.

0:42:19.239 --> 0:42:24.040
<v Speaker 1>It's a huge betrayal. So much of my life was

0:42:24.160 --> 0:42:29.240
<v Speaker 1>sacrificed to what she needed, which was actually what she wanted.

0:42:29.960 --> 0:42:34.840
<v Speaker 1>So much of who I am had to be hidden.

0:42:35.760 --> 0:42:40.680
<v Speaker 1>It's taken me until the last five years to start

0:42:40.920 --> 0:42:44.719
<v Speaker 1>to get back to who I am, what do I like,

0:42:45.600 --> 0:42:49.200
<v Speaker 1>what do I want to do? Believing that my opinion

0:42:49.280 --> 0:42:53.680
<v Speaker 1>matters and that I matter enough to be looked after.

0:42:54.680 --> 0:42:57.760
<v Speaker 2>Helen says her relationship with her husband has been healing.

0:42:58.640 --> 0:43:04.239
<v Speaker 1>Luckily for me, I picked the right guy. He's a wonderful, faithful,

0:43:04.760 --> 0:43:13.080
<v Speaker 1>fabulous person, which is very jammy. It's taken me a

0:43:13.200 --> 0:43:17.120
<v Speaker 1>long time to believe that he loves me, because I

0:43:17.320 --> 0:43:20.520
<v Speaker 1>just didn't think I was lovable. It's taken me a

0:43:20.680 --> 0:43:25.640
<v Speaker 1>really long time to accept that he wasn't tricked, that

0:43:25.760 --> 0:43:29.040
<v Speaker 1>he did want this, and that we both make each

0:43:29.080 --> 0:43:32.000
<v Speaker 1>other much happier than we'd be without each other.

0:43:36.040 --> 0:43:39.520
<v Speaker 2>Eleanor went to extreme lengths to control and abuse her daughter,

0:43:40.120 --> 0:43:43.279
<v Speaker 2>to keep Helen's world small and make sure it would

0:43:43.320 --> 0:43:48.440
<v Speaker 2>always revolve around her, but she underestimated her daughter's resilience.

0:43:50.160 --> 0:43:53.920
<v Speaker 1>I do think in a way, my mum neglecting me

0:43:55.080 --> 0:43:57.440
<v Speaker 1>was a real doubtful because it meant I became so

0:43:57.560 --> 0:44:03.520
<v Speaker 1>self sufficient. It just absolutely defeated everything she wanted me

0:44:03.640 --> 0:44:07.239
<v Speaker 1>to be. I was supposed to fail it at a thing,

0:44:07.920 --> 0:44:10.600
<v Speaker 1>but I'd learned to look after myself.

0:44:11.760 --> 0:44:16.320
<v Speaker 2>Today, Helen has built the life she always dreamed of. She, Peter,

0:44:16.520 --> 0:44:19.920
<v Speaker 2>and their kids lived together in Nottingham, where Peter and

0:44:19.960 --> 0:44:22.840
<v Speaker 2>Helen met and fell in love. They go on weekend

0:44:22.840 --> 0:44:26.600
<v Speaker 2>trips with their kids, play the TV loudly, and treasure

0:44:26.680 --> 0:44:31.520
<v Speaker 2>every day they spent together. We end every weekly episode

0:44:31.600 --> 0:44:34.160
<v Speaker 2>with the same question, why do you want to share

0:44:34.200 --> 0:44:34.760
<v Speaker 2>your story?

0:44:35.239 --> 0:44:37.799
<v Speaker 1>A really big thing for me to say was that

0:44:37.880 --> 0:44:42.759
<v Speaker 1>mothers aren't necessarily good. There's this feeling that moms are

0:44:42.760 --> 0:44:46.839
<v Speaker 1>good no matter what. Mums are good even if they

0:44:46.840 --> 0:44:50.160
<v Speaker 1>do the wrong thing. It's because they love you so much.

0:44:51.800 --> 0:44:55.680
<v Speaker 1>I'd had so many people saying to me, this can't

0:44:55.840 --> 0:44:59.799
<v Speaker 1>be true, she's your mom, as if being a mum

0:44:59.840 --> 0:45:03.560
<v Speaker 1>and being a bad person don't go together, and I

0:45:03.680 --> 0:45:04.960
<v Speaker 1>really wanted to challenge that.

0:45:11.920 --> 0:45:16.239
<v Speaker 2>On the next episode of Betrayal Weekly, I came up

0:45:16.239 --> 0:45:19.120
<v Speaker 2>with my plan, which was I'm gonna buy a gun.

0:45:20.480 --> 0:45:21.440
<v Speaker 2>That's my way out.

0:45:21.640 --> 0:45:27.080
<v Speaker 3>Walking into this gun store thinking that I cannot believe

0:45:27.280 --> 0:45:30.520
<v Speaker 3>this is my life. I can't believe this is my life.

0:45:31.440 --> 0:45:34.680
<v Speaker 3>I was floored. I had never felt so helpless in

0:45:34.680 --> 0:45:38.440
<v Speaker 3>my life.

0:45:39.280 --> 0:45:41.120
<v Speaker 2>If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal

0:45:41.120 --> 0:45:44.040
<v Speaker 2>team or want to tell us your Betrayal story, email

0:45:44.120 --> 0:45:48.400
<v Speaker 2>us at Betrayalpod at gmail dot com. That's Betrayal Pod

0:45:48.719 --> 0:45:52.239
<v Speaker 2>at gmail dot com, or follow us on Instagram at

0:45:52.320 --> 0:45:56.480
<v Speaker 2>Betrayal Pod. You can also connect with me on Instagram

0:45:56.560 --> 0:46:00.600
<v Speaker 2>at It's Andrea Gunning. To access our newsletter, you additional

0:46:00.640 --> 0:46:04.400
<v Speaker 2>content and connect with the Betrayal community. Join our substack

0:46:04.440 --> 0:46:08.360
<v Speaker 2>at Betrayal dot substack dot com. We're grateful for your support.

0:46:08.960 --> 0:46:11.200
<v Speaker 2>One way to show support is by subscribing to our

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<v Speaker 2>show on Apple Podcasts and don't forget to rate and

0:46:13.920 --> 0:46:17.440
<v Speaker 2>review Betrayal. Five star reviews go a long way. A

0:46:17.440 --> 0:46:21.000
<v Speaker 2>big thank you to all of our listeners. Betrayal is

0:46:21.040 --> 0:46:24.000
<v Speaker 2>a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment

0:46:24.000 --> 0:46:27.719
<v Speaker 2>Group and partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is executive

0:46:27.719 --> 0:46:31.360
<v Speaker 2>produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Fason, hosted and produced

0:46:31.360 --> 0:46:35.360
<v Speaker 2>by me Andrea Gunning. This episode was written and produced

0:46:35.360 --> 0:46:39.080
<v Speaker 2>by Olivia Hewitt and Monique Leboord, with additional production from

0:46:39.080 --> 0:46:43.959
<v Speaker 2>Ben Fetterman. Casting support from Curry Richmond. Our iHeart team

0:46:44.000 --> 0:46:48.000
<v Speaker 2>is Ali Perry and Jessica Krincheck. Audio editing and mixing

0:46:48.040 --> 0:46:53.040
<v Speaker 2>by Matt Delvecchio. Additional audio editing by Tanner Robbins. Betrayal's

0:46:53.040 --> 0:46:58.040
<v Speaker 2>theme composed by Oliver Bain's music library provided by myb Music.

0:46:58.719 --> 0:47:01.839
<v Speaker 2>And For more podcasts from Heart, visit the iHeartRadio app,

0:47:01.880 --> 0:47:05.759
<v Speaker 2>Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.