1 00:00:01,040 --> 00:00:03,480 Speaker 1: Taking a Walk. I rarely work things out. I like 2 00:00:03,520 --> 00:00:05,600 Speaker 1: to go off the cup and try to grab things 3 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:07,600 Speaker 1: out of the air while you're playing the song and 4 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:11,400 Speaker 1: try to catch a little magic. It's spontaneous. I think 5 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 1: that listeners can consense that you're discovering it when they are. 6 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:18,320 Speaker 2: Well. Welcome to our top five Taking a Walk podcast countdown, 7 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:21,240 Speaker 2: a little holiday gift for all of you for twenty 8 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:23,880 Speaker 2: twenty four. Thanking you so much for your support of 9 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 2: Taking a Walk. We're counting down the top five most 10 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 2: downloaded episodes of twenty twenty four. I'm Buzznight, your host, 11 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 2: so we'll recap. Okay, Harry Jacobs from the Taking a 12 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:37,920 Speaker 2: Walk music History Desk is here. Hello, Harry. 13 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:41,280 Speaker 3: Well, it's pleasure to be here and so excited about 14 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 3: about number one. 15 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:47,680 Speaker 2: So let's recap first, Carlos Santana at number five, John 16 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:52,600 Speaker 2: Oates at number four, Russell Kunkle at number three, Ian 17 00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:58,000 Speaker 2: Hunter at number two, and at number one. This was 18 00:00:58,040 --> 00:01:02,520 Speaker 2: a real treat having this guy on. He's created a 19 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:05,760 Speaker 2: new band that, believe it or not, recently put out 20 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 2: in twenty twenty four of their third album. The name 21 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 2: of that band is The Dirty Knobs. We're talking about 22 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:16,040 Speaker 2: Mike Campbell from Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers, the Great 23 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:19,319 Speaker 2: Mike Campbell. Oh my god, was it a treat to 24 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:21,440 Speaker 2: see him. I'm going to tell you a funny aspect 25 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:25,399 Speaker 2: of this though. So the publicist, you know, when this 26 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:29,119 Speaker 2: was set up, said, well, Mike just wants to do audio. 27 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:32,679 Speaker 2: He doesn't really want to have the camera on. So 28 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:36,479 Speaker 2: I said, okay, that's fine. This happens from time to time. 29 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:42,639 Speaker 2: So show up for the zoom. I have the camera off. 30 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:45,480 Speaker 2: All of a sudden I see the screen pop on 31 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 2: and there's Mike Campbell and he says, hey, I want 32 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 2: to see you. Turn the camera on. So the camera 33 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 2: was on, and there he was sitting there. He was 34 00:01:57,240 --> 00:02:01,559 Speaker 2: smoking a funny pipe. It was like a tobacco pipe 35 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 2: that had a funny curl, almost like a Sherlock Holmes 36 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:06,280 Speaker 2: sort of. 37 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:09,080 Speaker 3: Like a like a like a pipe like like Sherlock 38 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:09,519 Speaker 3: wood Small. 39 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:11,400 Speaker 2: My father used to smoke pipes, a bunch of pipes. 40 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:14,200 Speaker 2: Pipe tobacco guy. That's right, it was. It looked like 41 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 2: one of those. But there there he was, in true form, 42 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 2: Mike Campbell, and it was a treat talking to him. Harry. 43 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:26,480 Speaker 3: It's interesting to me that he was the publisher. Publicists 44 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:28,240 Speaker 3: would tell you that he doesn't want to do the 45 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:30,680 Speaker 3: camera because he does so much on camera. You know, 46 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 3: he's got a he's big on his YouTube channel. He 47 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:36,079 Speaker 3: does a lot of tutorial stuff on his guitar stuff, 48 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:38,240 Speaker 3: like he'll show you know, he was the he was 49 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:40,960 Speaker 3: the guitar player for Don Henley's Boys of Summer. So 50 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 3: that's one of those things that's in my YouTube favorites 51 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 3: to kind of learn how to play that song. And 52 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:50,120 Speaker 3: and he walks through his stuff like he's a guitar teacher. 53 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 3: He's a wonderful and generous man to his fans and 54 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 3: other guitar players to kind of show his tricks and 55 00:02:56,880 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 3: what they did to make that sound with with Tom Petty. 56 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 3: And I'm glad that he's he's done well moved on, 57 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:06,760 Speaker 3: you know, post Tom Petty and you know they were 58 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 3: just here in Nevada not long ago at State Line 59 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 3: and the Dirty Novels are having great success. 60 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 2: Oh and they sound really terrific on this and you 61 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 2: haven't heard the latest album. It's really really good. And 62 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:22,320 Speaker 2: what I found really neat about him as well as 63 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 2: to your point, very generous in terms of talking the 64 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 2: inside stories. We talked in particular about, you know, some 65 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 2: of the stories behind the music, some of the ways 66 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 2: things kind of came together, the way he was very 67 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 2: you know, detailed with his memory of it. So found 68 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 2: him to be very generous, very gracious giving in terms 69 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 2: of storytelling, and just really amazing. 70 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 3: There's a story he told on one of the YouTube 71 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 3: videos that's another one saved next to Boys of Summer, 72 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 3: where he talks about American Girl and how they got 73 00:03:56,640 --> 00:03:58,720 Speaker 3: that sound at the beginning of it, how they wanted 74 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:01,400 Speaker 3: a twelve string at the beginning, but they couldn't hear 75 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 3: and Tom couldn't afford twelve strings at that time on 76 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:06,119 Speaker 3: their first album, so he figured out how to make 77 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 3: that intro, that kind of high part of American Girl 78 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:11,200 Speaker 3: sound like a twelve string. And then he walks you 79 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 3: through every single piece of it. And I thought, as 80 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:17,520 Speaker 3: a guitar player, it's so to me. It's so generous 81 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 3: of him to say, this is how I made that sound, 82 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 3: literally piece by piece through the song. 83 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 2: I just I love him. 84 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 3: I'm a huge fan, and I'm so happy for success. 85 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 2: So here it is. It's the number one most downloaded 86 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:34,559 Speaker 2: podcast of Taking a Walk for twenty twenty four, here's 87 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:40,160 Speaker 2: Mike Campbell. Mike Campbell, so awesome to have you on 88 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:44,840 Speaker 2: the Taking a Walk podcast celebrating the release of Vagabonds, 89 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:49,320 Speaker 2: Virgins and Misfits. Have you been hanging around Tom Waits lately? 90 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 1: I wish I could hang out with Tom Waits, but no, 91 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:56,279 Speaker 1: I haven't seen Tom. 92 00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:01,719 Speaker 2: It's a great title, andolutely love the album. We're going 93 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:06,160 Speaker 2: to get into talking about, certainly the work with Lucinda 94 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 2: Williams and Chris Stapleton and Graham Nash and in Benmont 95 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 2: as well, and of course the great Dirty Knobs. Is 96 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 2: it hard for you to comprehend that this is the 97 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:19,960 Speaker 2: third Dirty Knobs album? 98 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 1: No, I can comprehend it. I did all the work. 99 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:27,560 Speaker 1: It's pretty well comprehended. There's a lot of blood and 100 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 1: sweat on those tapes. But no, I'm in this groove now, 101 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:36,160 Speaker 1: you know. I'm in the moving forward with this band 102 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:40,320 Speaker 1: and my own writing, and I can comprehend going on 103 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:41,600 Speaker 1: even farther with this. 104 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 2: And you seem to be absolutely having a joyful time. 105 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:48,680 Speaker 1: I am. I'm very grateful to be here. I love 106 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:51,479 Speaker 1: what I do and I'm very proud of the work 107 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 1: that the band has done with me. 108 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 2: So you were just out celebrating the fiftieth anniversary out 109 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:02,599 Speaker 2: at the church studio where mud Crutch first hit the scene, 110 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:08,479 Speaker 2: back with the great Leon Russell and Shelter. Tell me 111 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:11,360 Speaker 2: about first of all, going back, how it felt, and 112 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:14,280 Speaker 2: tell me how you remember that experience fifty years ago. 113 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 1: Yeah. I was very honored that Tulsa and the church 114 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:21,719 Speaker 1: people asked me to come back and honor that place. 115 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:25,159 Speaker 1: They've restored it really well. And so we went out 116 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 1: there and I had an out of body experience walking 117 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:32,719 Speaker 1: into that room after decades where it all kind of 118 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 1: started with us in Cordell and Shelter records, and I 119 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:40,360 Speaker 1: walked into the room that Tom and I and Ben 120 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 1: and Random Marsh, the briginal mud Crutch walked into that 121 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:47,719 Speaker 1: room with Denny Cordell, and we didn't know how to 122 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 1: record at all. But I remember standing in that room 123 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:53,839 Speaker 1: and just looking at each other and we thought we'd 124 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 1: made the big time. You know. We were in a 125 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:58,800 Speaker 1: church studio at Leon Russell's town, you know, but we 126 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:00,719 Speaker 1: didn't know what we were doing. I did have a 127 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 1: flashback standing there last week. I could see my brother 128 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:10,360 Speaker 1: Tom's ghost and Feelo's old feelings again, it was kind 129 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 1: of touching, you know, in a lot of ways, in 130 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:14,160 Speaker 1: a good way. 131 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:17,600 Speaker 2: And when you were out initially there with Leon Russell, 132 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 2: did you have a deep understanding of what an amazing 133 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 2: musician and career he had had. Yeah. 134 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 1: I love Leon Russell. I used to see him play 135 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:32,600 Speaker 1: in Gainsville when he passed through town, and of course 136 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 1: I'd seen the Mad Dogs and Englishman Tour and all 137 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 1: those great players in his band. But to be honest, 138 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:42,440 Speaker 1: Leon wasn't there. We first went through Tulsa. We were 139 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 1: hooked up with Denny Cordell, who was Leon's partner and 140 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 1: our producer. We didn't see Leon until a while later 141 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:52,440 Speaker 1: out in La but he was not there at the 142 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:54,360 Speaker 1: church that first time we came through town. 143 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:59,840 Speaker 2: But that's amazing. You had this spiritual experience there that 144 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 2: you clearly felt right. 145 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you can see it in the video where 146 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 1: I'm standing in that room. We did a video of 147 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:09,720 Speaker 1: this new song there to Dream, and you can see 148 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 1: that I'm having a moment, you know, a positive emotional moment. 149 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 2: The video is amazing and it really evokes a tremendous 150 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:24,600 Speaker 2: feeling and a sense of some optimism that we all 151 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 2: need don't you think? 152 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 1: Absolutely, don't we The world is a wicked place these days, 153 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 1: it seems almost more wicked than it used to be. 154 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 1: But yeah, I think that, you know, as an artist 155 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:42,960 Speaker 1: or songwriter, and Tom was the same way. And I 156 00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 1: think not to compare myself to the Beatles, but I 157 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 1: like to think that with the Beatles always had a 158 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 1: positive Most of their songs were about peace and love. 159 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:53,960 Speaker 1: You know, every now and then John Lennon would throw 160 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:58,760 Speaker 1: in I'm a loser. But generally speaking our songs with 161 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 1: the Heartbreakers, we always tried to aim toward hope and redemption, 162 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:06,440 Speaker 1: you know. And if a song maybe has a dark character, 163 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:08,680 Speaker 1: at least by the end you hope there's some way 164 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 1: he's going to get out of his predicament and life 165 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:13,559 Speaker 1: will be better. And so this song in some ways 166 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 1: makes people feel that maybe life can be better than 167 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:17,560 Speaker 1: I've done my job. 168 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 2: It's a wonderful song, and having Graham on it is 169 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:27,920 Speaker 2: a super special. How did you happen upon asking Graham 170 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 2: to appear on this. 171 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:33,760 Speaker 1: Well, it took a lot of courage. I had met 172 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:36,840 Speaker 1: Graham before a few times on tour. They had opened 173 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:39,240 Speaker 1: for us, and I had done a gig and Kahi 174 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 1: with him once a benefit and he came by and 175 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 1: did my little radio show that I do on Tom 176 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:47,360 Speaker 1: Petty Radio, and at the end of the interview, I 177 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 1: kind of sheepishly said, you know, would you maybe want 178 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 1: to sing in one of our tracks? And said, sure, 179 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:56,080 Speaker 1: I'll make your song better, and he did, you know, 180 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 1: God bless him. So I sent him the tape. And 181 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:01,720 Speaker 1: I am a huge child of the sixties, the Hollys, 182 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 1: the Beatles, Animals and Stones and the Hollies. I always 183 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:08,560 Speaker 1: just love their vocals and Graham was a large part 184 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:11,520 Speaker 1: of that high harmony. And so I said him the 185 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 1: song and I got it back and I was just 186 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:16,200 Speaker 1: blown away that he kind of captured some of that 187 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:21,600 Speaker 1: Hollyes blend on the song for me. And I couldn't 188 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 1: have been happier, you know, to have a hero on 189 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:27,079 Speaker 1: your song. I mean, come on, I. 190 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 2: Love the show on Tom Petty Radio. By the way, 191 00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 2: you make it look very easy. How do you make 192 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:33,959 Speaker 2: it look so easy? 193 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:36,960 Speaker 1: Well, it's just you and me. We're just talking, you know, 194 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:39,440 Speaker 1: like they asked me. You know that the Tom Petty 195 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:43,720 Speaker 1: Radio on Sirius XM is a good station. And Tom 196 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:48,240 Speaker 1: started it and was deeply involved with the show, and 197 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 1: now that he's gone, we want to keep the show 198 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:53,840 Speaker 1: alive and keep playing his music and our music. And 199 00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:57,320 Speaker 1: so they Ben Mutt does a DJ show, and I 200 00:10:57,320 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 1: think Stan Lynch and Steve Roni are also doing day 201 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 1: shows where they come on and talk and play songs. 202 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 1: And they asked me if I would want to help, 203 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 1: and I didn't want to do that because I don't 204 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 1: really feel like I'm a DJ type person. But I 205 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:12,880 Speaker 1: said if I could do interviews and conversations with other 206 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:15,840 Speaker 1: people about music, then that would be interesting to me. 207 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:18,640 Speaker 1: So that's what my show is all about. Just getting 208 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:22,200 Speaker 1: someone that I respect or that knows about us and 209 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 1: just talk about music and have a conversation like you 210 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:27,719 Speaker 1: and I are. Now that's the idea behind it. 211 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:31,760 Speaker 2: It's excellent. I love it. So you got a guitar 212 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:34,320 Speaker 2: at sixteen years old? Is that right? 213 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:36,559 Speaker 1: That's about right? Yeah? 214 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 2: And what kind of guitar was this? 215 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:41,680 Speaker 1: It was basically unplayable, but I didn't know at the time. 216 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:45,800 Speaker 1: It was a fifteen dollars pawnche up Harmony Archtop Acoustic, 217 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:48,439 Speaker 1: and I begged my mom. We didn't have much money, 218 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:51,080 Speaker 1: but I begged her for a guitar, and she scraped 219 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:53,200 Speaker 1: up the fifteen bucks and got me this thing. And 220 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:56,320 Speaker 1: I learned how to play on it, but it was 221 00:11:56,400 --> 00:11:58,679 Speaker 1: unplayable now I look back on the strings were real 222 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 1: high off the neck and my fingers would literally bleed. 223 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:04,280 Speaker 1: I'd be trying so hard until I went over to 224 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:06,800 Speaker 1: a friend's house and he had a Gibson and I 225 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:08,560 Speaker 1: pick it up and I went, oh my god, this 226 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:11,400 Speaker 1: isn't hard at all. It's easy. I've been struggling, you know, 227 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:14,560 Speaker 1: but my first guitar. It taught me how to, you know, 228 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:17,840 Speaker 1: play hard. And I was just hooked as soon as 229 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:19,600 Speaker 1: they got the guitar, and nothing else mattered. It was 230 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:20,440 Speaker 1: all about the guitar. 231 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 2: Do you remember the first solo that you learned. 232 00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 1: Johnny be Good? I learned it off the radio. I 233 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:30,720 Speaker 1: didn't have a teacher. I never took guitar lessons, but 234 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:33,000 Speaker 1: I heard that on the radio, and somehow I managed. 235 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:35,000 Speaker 1: I guess I had an affinity for the and I 236 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:37,440 Speaker 1: just figured it out on the guitar. And I just 237 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:39,960 Speaker 1: love Chuck Berry and that song. I connected with it, 238 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 1: you know. I felt like a poor boy trying to 239 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 1: dream about making it someday. And I just identified with 240 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:49,760 Speaker 1: the way Chuck plays, and I still get chills from 241 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 1: out of here and play. There's something about him and 242 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 1: the way he plays guitar, the double stop thing that 243 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:55,280 Speaker 1: I tried to emulate. 244 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:57,360 Speaker 2: Did you ever perfect the duck walk? 245 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:02,680 Speaker 1: No, I'm still working on that. Nobody can quite do 246 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:05,400 Speaker 1: it like him. I've seen people try, but Chuck had 247 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 1: the way. Yeah, he was quite a performer, amazing person. 248 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, a little bit of mojo, wouldn't you say? 249 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:16,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, he has some mojo and his songwriting, you know, 250 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:20,720 Speaker 1: his character, his originality, you know, he created that thing. 251 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:24,720 Speaker 1: There's so many of us have you know, borrowed from 252 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 1: over the years. And he's still my top three guitar 253 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:30,200 Speaker 1: players of all time. 254 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:33,000 Speaker 2: You mind listing the other two? 255 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:38,520 Speaker 1: Well, there's more than three really, but Chuck, of course, 256 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:41,680 Speaker 1: Jimmy Hendrix because he was just ridiculously out of control, 257 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:45,840 Speaker 1: crazy good. I like Mike Bloomfield a lot. In the 258 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 1: early days. I had the Paul Butterfield records and I 259 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:51,680 Speaker 1: had that harmony guitar and record, and I would slow 260 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 1: the record down, you know, to sixteen, so I could 261 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:56,560 Speaker 1: hear what the guitar was doing. And that's how I 262 00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:58,160 Speaker 1: learned that he was bending the notes. You know, I 263 00:13:58,200 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 1: didn't know you could bend the notes on the guitar, 264 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 1: and so, you know, but there's you know, Keith Richards, 265 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 1: George Harrison, Roger McGlenn, there's so many. That era was 266 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:10,400 Speaker 1: just incredible for guitar players. You know, it's not like 267 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:13,000 Speaker 1: that anymore. But I'm happy I was there to be 268 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:15,080 Speaker 1: inspired by all that stuff when I was learning. 269 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 2: And you completely self taught though. 270 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 1: Well, yeah, when I was a kid in school, my 271 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:23,920 Speaker 1: parents forced me to take accordion lessons for a couple 272 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 1: of months, uh, and I learned the basics of scales 273 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 1: and chords and things on that a little bit. But 274 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:34,080 Speaker 1: when I got the guitar, I just taught myself up 275 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 1: my ear. 276 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:37,760 Speaker 2: You know, what was the first concert that you ever 277 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 2: went to? 278 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:42,160 Speaker 1: Oh, the first concert would have been to Beach Boys 279 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:48,920 Speaker 1: at the Jacksonville Coliseum. I think the bill was it 280 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 1: was one of those Dick Clark things. I think they 281 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 1: had a bunch of artists on like Del Shannon and 282 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 1: Sam the Sham and the Fayohse and different bands, and 283 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:00,120 Speaker 1: then the Beach Boys came on as the headliner to 284 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:02,680 Speaker 1: end and they just completely blew me away. They sounded 285 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:06,520 Speaker 1: just like their records, you know, and I love that 286 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:09,800 Speaker 1: that dream, that a California dream of hope and happiness 287 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 1: living in you know, Jacksonville. That sounds pretty good to me. 288 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 2: I'm sure. So tell me about what pawn shops mean 289 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:24,640 Speaker 2: to you when it comes to the discovery of guitars 290 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:26,080 Speaker 2: which mean the world to you. 291 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:30,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, pawn shops You're a gold mine, you know, especially 292 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:33,520 Speaker 1: in the early days when I couldn't afford much, you 293 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:35,400 Speaker 1: could get a good deal in a pawnshop. You know. 294 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 1: I got my first Firebird Gibson in a pawnshop for 295 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 1: I think one hundred and twenty bucks and it was 296 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:46,760 Speaker 1: just ironic. Recently on the Platewood Mac tour, when I 297 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 1: was out with them, we were in Philadelphia and I 298 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:52,080 Speaker 1: went by a pawnshop and I found a white Firebird 299 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:56,320 Speaker 1: and that's become my main guitar, like touring guitar now. 300 00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 1: So I'm back to the Firebirds again. But you know, 301 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:01,640 Speaker 1: it's hard hard to find deals now because the word 302 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 1: is out that, you know, these instruments are valuable. But 303 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 1: I used to always go on days off with the 304 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 1: Heartbreakers me and maybe you know Scott Thurston or Ron 305 00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:13,160 Speaker 1: and Blair. We go out and find a pawn shop 306 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:15,760 Speaker 1: and try to dig up an old gym. You know, 307 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 1: occasionally you get something really cool. Most of my guitars 308 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 1: are old, vintage stuff and nowadays though, I was lucky 309 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:26,600 Speaker 1: to find that white Firebird because nowadays it's hard to 310 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:27,480 Speaker 1: find deals. 311 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:30,840 Speaker 2: Is there anything in particular you're on the lookout. 312 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 1: For, you know, I my Brodie keeps asking, sending me stuff. 313 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 1: Do you want this? Do you want this? You know 314 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:39,080 Speaker 1: I've already got one of those. I would like to 315 00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 1: get im trying. I might want to get an epiphone coronet. 316 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 1: I think it's called Real Light delsh In and had 317 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 1: one Real Lightweight and they sound pretty good. Steve Marriott 318 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 1: played one, and I think in the Small Faces. But 319 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:56,840 Speaker 1: I'm not on a hunt. I've got too many. I 320 00:16:56,840 --> 00:16:57,960 Speaker 1: need to get them away. You know. 321 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 2: What the loss of Dwayne Eddie mean to you as 322 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:03,880 Speaker 2: a guitarist. 323 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:06,639 Speaker 1: Well, Dwayne was a huge influence. I mean he was 324 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:09,919 Speaker 1: one of the first, if not the first, instrumental guitar player. 325 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:15,359 Speaker 1: The rebel Rouser and because they're young and moving and grooving, 326 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:17,720 Speaker 1: all those great instrumentals that were on the radio when 327 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:20,119 Speaker 1: I was learning, and I learned those songs off the 328 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 1: radio too. You know, anytime an artist of that stature 329 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:28,119 Speaker 1: leaves us, it's always a loss, you know. But I 330 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:30,080 Speaker 1: really liked his guitar and his tone. You know, he 331 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 1: had that gretch tone, deep throaty vibroad to his tone. 332 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:39,120 Speaker 1: And he was an innovator, you know, rebel rouser. 333 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:43,480 Speaker 2: You knew it was him when you heard him, right, Yeah. 334 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:45,959 Speaker 1: He was a Yeah, he was an icon and he 335 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:47,720 Speaker 1: was ahead of the curve. You know, there weren't that 336 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:51,080 Speaker 1: many guitar instrumentals out at that time, maybe Santo and 337 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 1: Johnny and a few others, but his was a very 338 00:17:54,680 --> 00:18:00,119 Speaker 1: you know, recognizable style and tone, and I like, you 339 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:02,639 Speaker 1: try to go for that sound sometimes. You know. 340 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:06,280 Speaker 2: What I thought was interesting. I was talking to Steve 341 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 2: Howe from Yes on the podcast and even you know, 342 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 2: some of the great British prog rock guitarists looked up 343 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 2: to Dwayne Eddie in a big way. He impacted them 344 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 2: as well. 345 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 1: The twang's the thing. Have twang will travel, you know, Yeah, 346 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:27,280 Speaker 1: and just a big you made the guitar sounds so 347 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:30,560 Speaker 1: big and full, and his songs are really cool, cool 348 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:35,359 Speaker 1: riffs and simple, you know, not like showy, but melodic 349 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:39,360 Speaker 1: and tough sound. And I try to play that way too. 350 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:42,920 Speaker 2: So I was hoping we could go back to I'm 351 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:45,439 Speaker 2: just going to pick three of my favorites, which really 352 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:48,440 Speaker 2: is difficult for me because I've got another three hundred 353 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:52,560 Speaker 2: favorites from your work with Tom and the Heartbreakers. But 354 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:57,880 Speaker 2: can you take us back into what you recall the creation, 355 00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 2: either solo wise or set and wise of well, first 356 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:05,679 Speaker 2: American Girl would be the one I wanted to ask about. 357 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:09,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember cutting American Girl. It was on the 358 00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:11,720 Speaker 1: fourth of July and we were at the Shelter we 359 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:14,520 Speaker 1: called it the Brown Room, the Shelter Studios, which had 360 00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:19,199 Speaker 1: compensated the API console from Tulsa and put it in 361 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 1: the office there on Hollywood Boulevard, and that's where we 362 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:25,439 Speaker 1: did our first two records. And Tom was beginning to 363 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:30,160 Speaker 1: blossom as a writer, and he brought in Breakdown and 364 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:33,720 Speaker 1: Wold One Forever, and then he brought in an American Girl 365 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:36,480 Speaker 1: one day and it was like it was a no Bringer, 366 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:38,480 Speaker 1: this is a great song, you know. And he had 367 00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:41,439 Speaker 1: the Bo Diddley chords and I wanted to put a 368 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:43,600 Speaker 1: twelve string on it. But I could. I didn't have one. 369 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:45,639 Speaker 1: We couldn't afford a twelve string at the time. I 370 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 1: had a broadcaster, which is still my main guitar. So 371 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:51,879 Speaker 1: I was trying to get a twelve string sound with 372 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:55,920 Speaker 1: the drone octaves. Danga dang dan dang dang. That's octaves 373 00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:58,680 Speaker 1: on a sixth string, trying to sound like a twelve string. 374 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:04,600 Speaker 1: So that was the genesis of that sound. And between 375 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:08,800 Speaker 1: Tom's guitar and that high droning and the voicings of 376 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 1: my chords going up against his chords down low, that 377 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:15,280 Speaker 1: became the Heartbreaker's guitar sound basically. So when I hear 378 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 1: that song now, I can hear the formation of the band. 379 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:20,800 Speaker 1: That was where we found our thing, you know. And 380 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:24,440 Speaker 1: at the end of the song A funny story there's 381 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:26,679 Speaker 1: I was just I make a lot of stuff up 382 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:28,400 Speaker 1: on the track. I don't work it out too much. 383 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:32,639 Speaker 1: At the end, I just started doing those triples because 384 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 1: I got bored or didn't know what to do. And 385 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 1: I thought it was goofy, you know, and Tom going, oh, no, 386 00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:39,160 Speaker 1: you gotta double that. I said, no, it sounds too 387 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:41,639 Speaker 1: much like something else, you know. No, he said, that's 388 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:44,119 Speaker 1: really good. Double it and now it's like this on 389 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:46,640 Speaker 1: the fade, that's that signature guitar part that goes out. 390 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:48,320 Speaker 1: So he was right. 391 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:52,440 Speaker 2: About that, and that's where you kind of it probably 392 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:57,120 Speaker 2: came into form as your own process of improvising through 393 00:20:57,160 --> 00:21:00,960 Speaker 2: sessions and sort of the you know you is creation 394 00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 2: of something till you get it right. Is that correct? 395 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:06,800 Speaker 1: It is correct. I rarely work things out. I like 396 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:08,920 Speaker 1: to go off the cuff and try to grab things 397 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:10,960 Speaker 1: out of the air while you're playing the song and 398 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:15,399 Speaker 1: try to catch a little magic. It's spontaneous. That's what 399 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:17,760 Speaker 1: I try to do, and that's what that song was about. 400 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:19,800 Speaker 1: And just to go back, I don't want to get 401 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:22,080 Speaker 1: through technical But you talked about Duane Eddie. There's also 402 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:24,919 Speaker 1: Chad Atkins who was a big influence on me, and 403 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:27,600 Speaker 1: it was because I had been teaching myself Chad Atkins 404 00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:30,119 Speaker 1: on that song American Girl at the end, that's a 405 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:32,639 Speaker 1: fingerpicking thing, didn't literally you have to use your you know, 406 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:35,360 Speaker 1: a couple of fingers to get that. And I got 407 00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:38,520 Speaker 1: that from Chedd Atkins, that technique, so I owe that 408 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:41,479 Speaker 1: to him too. But yeah, I like to just go 409 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:43,639 Speaker 1: off the cuff. Breakdown was an off the cuff. That 410 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:48,399 Speaker 1: opening riff was something I did on the track mindlessly, 411 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:50,879 Speaker 1: stream of consciousness. At the end of the track, I 412 00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:54,119 Speaker 1: played that once or twice as I as it was 413 00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:56,919 Speaker 1: getting to the end of his long jam. And then 414 00:21:56,960 --> 00:21:58,640 Speaker 1: they called me up and said, you know that licky 415 00:21:58,640 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 1: play at the end should be at the beginning of 416 00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:01,960 Speaker 1: the song. It'll be like a catch for the song 417 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:04,400 Speaker 1: in a hook. So I went back down and learned 418 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:05,880 Speaker 1: it and played it on the front of the song, 419 00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:08,280 Speaker 1: so that you know. I like to grab things out 420 00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:10,840 Speaker 1: of the air that are unexpected. If I think that 421 00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:14,200 Speaker 1: listeners can consense that you're discovering it when they are, 422 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:16,200 Speaker 1: it's beautiful. 423 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 2: Tell me about You Got Lucky. What you remember about 424 00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:24,040 Speaker 2: that whole process and the session and the solos and 425 00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:25,160 Speaker 2: the creation of it. 426 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:30,760 Speaker 1: You Got Lucky was written on a synthesizer. The chords, 427 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:34,440 Speaker 1: that whole thing I had done with three fingers. I'm 428 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:36,960 Speaker 1: not much on the keyboards, but I had a I 429 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:39,320 Speaker 1: had made a drum loop, which I was into it 430 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:42,719 Speaker 1: at the time, and I had that keyboard line and 431 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:46,280 Speaker 1: the chords, and we got I didn't have the sort 432 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:52,320 Speaker 1: of with a Clint Eastwood movie Italian Western kind of 433 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 1: solo E M. Marconi thing which is in the middle. 434 00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:57,120 Speaker 1: That was Tom's ideas, why don't you go play something 435 00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 1: like a James Bond thing on the middle. I had 436 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:04,920 Speaker 1: a strategist come into mail and I went out down, down, down, down, 437 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:07,919 Speaker 1: So that was I came up with the line. Actually, 438 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:10,080 Speaker 1: that line was on the keyboard line at the beginning 439 00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:12,399 Speaker 1: of the song, so I just copy that on the 440 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:16,360 Speaker 1: guitar and did it with the vibrato m so that 441 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:20,199 Speaker 1: Tom suggested that I do that there, and I just 442 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:21,959 Speaker 1: think he wrote a great lyric to that. So I 443 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:23,760 Speaker 1: was so happy every time I would give him piece 444 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:26,280 Speaker 1: of music, if he was inspired to write words, it 445 00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:29,200 Speaker 1: was always great, you know. I was lucky that way. 446 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:33,560 Speaker 2: And then tell me about the waiting and the creation 447 00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:36,840 Speaker 2: of the waiting, and in particular, is it true you've 448 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:39,080 Speaker 2: also played bass on the waiting? 449 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:43,840 Speaker 1: I did. Yeah, I played bass, no difference to Ron, 450 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:46,280 Speaker 1: who's an incredible a lot better bass player than I am. 451 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:49,440 Speaker 1: But on the songs of mine that if I had 452 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:51,320 Speaker 1: a demo, I would put a rough bass on it 453 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:53,920 Speaker 1: just to to find how it should go, and then 454 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 1: sometimes we would end up I'd have to play it 455 00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:59,560 Speaker 1: because that was the right vibe for the song on 456 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:03,760 Speaker 1: the way. For some reason, Ron wasn't there that day 457 00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:06,520 Speaker 1: or something, and so I ended up playing the bass. 458 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,600 Speaker 1: And what's interesting about that song, which I love, one 459 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:14,159 Speaker 1: of my favorite songs of his, it's very birdsy uh. 460 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:17,159 Speaker 1: At the end on the bass, the guitar wasn't I 461 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:19,320 Speaker 1: hadn't done my guitar part yet. On the end at 462 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:21,040 Speaker 1: the bass where it breaks down, the bass goes do 463 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:24,919 Speaker 1: do do Do Do Do Do doo. That was a 464 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,439 Speaker 1: bass line, And so when I went to do the guitar, 465 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:30,800 Speaker 1: I found that once again the high octaves to sound 466 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:35,200 Speaker 1: my guitarl Gang Gang Gang. So that came from the 467 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 1: bass part. So that was also just a stream of 468 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:40,119 Speaker 1: conscious this moment where that line came in when I 469 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:43,439 Speaker 1: was doing the bass. But if you're if you're clever, 470 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:47,479 Speaker 1: and you listen to what you're doing, you can grab 471 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:50,399 Speaker 1: little things that you didn't expect to happen, little pieces 472 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:53,159 Speaker 1: of magic. And if you could catch them and and 473 00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:56,639 Speaker 1: you know, mind them, I think that makes for good music. 474 00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:58,119 Speaker 2: We'll be right. 475 00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:05,880 Speaker 4: Back with more of the Taking a Walk part. Welcome 476 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 4: back to the Taking a Walk podcast. 477 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:12,359 Speaker 2: Let's talk about the magic you created on Vagabonds, Virgins 478 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:18,440 Speaker 2: and misfits. I just absolutely love this cover to cover, 479 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:22,080 Speaker 2: as we would say, You've got some great folks that 480 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 2: are helping you out here. Lucinda Williams and Chris Stapleton, 481 00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 2: Graham Nash of course, and Benmont talk about how this 482 00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:33,199 Speaker 2: project came together. 483 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:38,000 Speaker 1: Well, it was gonna it's a Dirty Knobs album, and 484 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:40,959 Speaker 1: I started writing songs for the sessions and we came in. 485 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:43,800 Speaker 1: I like to cut live with the Dirty Knobs, much 486 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,160 Speaker 1: as the Heartbreakers were doing near the end of their 487 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:48,119 Speaker 1: career and the very beginning of our career. We always 488 00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 1: played live in the studio, and the Dirty Knobs is 489 00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:56,359 Speaker 1: very much spontaneous solos on the fly, you know. I 490 00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:57,919 Speaker 1: try to get it on tape before they know it 491 00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:00,640 Speaker 1: too well, so it kind of sounds a little rough 492 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:04,520 Speaker 1: and rowdy. But so I was writing some songs for 493 00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:09,240 Speaker 1: the album and we started recording with our producer Georgia Coolias. 494 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:13,000 Speaker 1: We recorded about twenty five songs or more, and then 495 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:17,040 Speaker 1: I was reassessing all the songs, trying to narrow it 496 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:19,800 Speaker 1: down to what an album might be. And my wife 497 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:22,679 Speaker 1: actually suggested you should go back to your tape blocker 498 00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 1: because I've got closets full of two inch tape of 499 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:30,720 Speaker 1: demos I did back twenty years ago, and I didn't 500 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:32,480 Speaker 1: want to do that because I don't like to go back. 501 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 1: I like to keep moving forward. But she said, no, 502 00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:36,520 Speaker 1: you might have overlooked something. So I went in there 503 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:38,920 Speaker 1: started listening to those things, and I found four or 504 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:41,240 Speaker 1: five things that ended up on this record because I 505 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:43,159 Speaker 1: thought the songs were good and they fit into what 506 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 1: I was trying to do, and a few of them 507 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:48,240 Speaker 1: we actually used those tapes and built up from them 508 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:52,879 Speaker 1: because they had the vibe. And so half the record 509 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:55,160 Speaker 1: is older songs and half the record is number songs 510 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,240 Speaker 1: and the other records laying on the floor for the 511 00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:57,840 Speaker 1: next record. 512 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:01,320 Speaker 2: Let's talk about some of the cuts. First of all, 513 00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:04,359 Speaker 2: the greatest, That is the greatest one of those that 514 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:07,080 Speaker 2: you took off the shelf, and that's. 515 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:08,640 Speaker 1: A new under It was one of the first songs 516 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:11,199 Speaker 1: I wrote for the album, and I was we had 517 00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:14,040 Speaker 1: come off a great tour and I wanted to write 518 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:16,159 Speaker 1: a song that was a thank you to the crowd, 519 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:19,479 Speaker 1: you know, And so that song is you know you 520 00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:21,679 Speaker 1: are the greatest is the audience, you know. I just 521 00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 1: wanted to give back, how much appreciation we have for 522 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,119 Speaker 1: them being there, and so that song kind of built 523 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:28,919 Speaker 1: out of that, you know, and it just became this 524 00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:34,440 Speaker 1: drone beatlesy harmony kind of I don't know what you'd 525 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:36,800 Speaker 1: call it, kind of psychedelic in a way, but it's 526 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:38,080 Speaker 1: a gift back to the audience. 527 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 2: I love it. And tell me about Angel of Mercy. 528 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:43,600 Speaker 2: The creation of that. 529 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:47,040 Speaker 1: Angela Mercy is an old song that was not in 530 00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:49,040 Speaker 1: the tape blocker. I had tried it on the first 531 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:51,520 Speaker 1: two albums to cut it because I liked this song 532 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:55,320 Speaker 1: and it goes back quite away the Dirty nonc when 533 00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:57,800 Speaker 1: we were playing bars when we first got started around LA, 534 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:02,919 Speaker 1: we played that song live. So we tried it again 535 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:06,159 Speaker 1: for the third album and it didn't really measure up, 536 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:08,760 Speaker 1: and so we basically had finished the record and George 537 00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:10,600 Speaker 1: Trulius came in. He said, you know, I've been listening 538 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:12,800 Speaker 1: to that song. You guys should cut it again. Let's 539 00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,239 Speaker 1: make it sound like a proper record, you know. So 540 00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:19,359 Speaker 1: I said, okay, And so at that point Steve Roni 541 00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:22,160 Speaker 1: came in because I needed a drummer, and he played 542 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:25,439 Speaker 1: drums on that one song and it made the record. 543 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,560 Speaker 2: We talked about Dare to Dream, which is the single 544 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:34,080 Speaker 2: with Graham Nash, which is just such a you know, fun, uplifting, 545 00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 2: optimistic song. And I want to talk about hands are 546 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:45,000 Speaker 2: Tied and that. Yeah, that guitar, what guitar are you 547 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:50,240 Speaker 2: playing on that? That produces such a unique sound there. 548 00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 1: You know, I'm trying to remember. I know it's a 549 00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:57,280 Speaker 1: it's a it's kind of by broad up arm. I 550 00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:00,520 Speaker 1: think it was a gretch cranked up through an because 551 00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:03,440 Speaker 1: I know it's got like a Neil Youngish. I brought 552 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:06,719 Speaker 1: out arm vibe on it. I think it was a 553 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:10,200 Speaker 1: Gritch clipper that I have, same guitar I used that 554 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,080 Speaker 1: I Won't back Down And that was an old song 555 00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:16,520 Speaker 1: that I dug up and that's one of my favorite songs. 556 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:20,600 Speaker 1: It's a very emotional song and it's it's a little dark, 557 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:24,880 Speaker 1: but it's one it's you know, it's someone's in trouble, 558 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:27,760 Speaker 1: the girl or whoever is having a really hard time 559 00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:29,680 Speaker 1: and you want to help her, you know, and it's 560 00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:31,240 Speaker 1: like whatever it is. It could be drugs, it could 561 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:34,040 Speaker 1: be illness, whatever it is, and you know, I want 562 00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:36,200 Speaker 1: to help you. My hands are tied, you know, And 563 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:39,239 Speaker 1: I hope it works out. You know kind of thing. So, 564 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:41,239 Speaker 1: and it's also I like that song because it's got 565 00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:44,000 Speaker 1: a time signature change in it. It goes, which I 566 00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:46,040 Speaker 1: heard I rarely do. I usually write in four four 567 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:48,720 Speaker 1: or three four. This one has a five four section 568 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:53,400 Speaker 1: at the top and at the end. And another thing 569 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:57,200 Speaker 1: I like about that song is my wife is so shy, 570 00:29:57,400 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 1: you know, and I've always asked her over the years, 571 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:00,840 Speaker 1: why don't you come in and sing something. I'll make 572 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,440 Speaker 1: you sound good, don't worry, you know, and she never 573 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:06,200 Speaker 1: wanted to. And then one day on this record, she 574 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,080 Speaker 1: came in, I'd like to sing on this record. So 575 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:12,200 Speaker 1: on that song she just comes in, ah, and we 576 00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:14,280 Speaker 1: just layered her to make this great bed and it 577 00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:17,640 Speaker 1: really gives a song a spiritual quality. So I was 578 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:18,960 Speaker 1: proud of her for doing that. 579 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:19,520 Speaker 2: That's great. 580 00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:25,840 Speaker 1: The bit the guitar is is emotional and sweet, and 581 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:28,840 Speaker 1: the words are you know, spiritual too. 582 00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:34,560 Speaker 2: You almost evokes sort of that town without pity sort 583 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:37,040 Speaker 2: of sound, you know a little bit. 584 00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:40,720 Speaker 1: I also think that I didn't notice this till recently, 585 00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:47,120 Speaker 1: that the guitar, which was a stream of consciousness line, 586 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:50,960 Speaker 1: it's kind of reminiscent of breakdown a little bit, you know, 587 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:53,960 Speaker 1: and I think it's that same guy. Whoever that guy 588 00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:57,040 Speaker 1: in me is that that placed in that mode. It 589 00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:59,640 Speaker 1: has a little bit of that element in it, and 590 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:02,040 Speaker 1: at the end it goes into the whole Jimmy Hendrix 591 00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:05,640 Speaker 1: kind of swirly thing. Yeah, thank you for mentioning that song. 592 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:06,840 Speaker 1: I like that one quite a bit. 593 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:10,760 Speaker 2: Oh, I love it. And then you have a hell 594 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:15,160 Speaker 2: or a high Water where that force of nature Lucinda 595 00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:22,640 Speaker 2: Williams emerges in that song. What a brilliant a brilliant song, 596 00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:27,400 Speaker 2: brilliant collaboration. Talk about how you collaborated with her. 597 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:30,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a new song that I wrote for the album, 598 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:35,000 Speaker 1: and I'm very proud of that one because it's a 599 00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:39,080 Speaker 1: lyrical workout. You know, it's a story, there's a character, 600 00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:40,720 Speaker 1: and there's like a little movie, and there's a lot 601 00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:43,680 Speaker 1: of wordplay in it, which I'm starting to really enjoy doing. 602 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:48,320 Speaker 1: And so we cut it live and I sang it 603 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:53,080 Speaker 1: most my vocal is live. And then on reflection, I thought, 604 00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:55,320 Speaker 1: you know, there's this character in the song, this girl 605 00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:57,680 Speaker 1: that this guy meets up with and goes into this 606 00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:03,440 Speaker 1: shadowy world for And I thought, wouldn't it be great 607 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:05,360 Speaker 1: if we had a female voice in there to come 608 00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:08,840 Speaker 1: in and be that character, and I thought of Lucinda 609 00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:12,120 Speaker 1: once again. She had done my show, and I said, 610 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:14,480 Speaker 1: you would you maybe consider singing on the song, and 611 00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:17,280 Speaker 1: she was real shy about it, but she came in 612 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:19,600 Speaker 1: and she added such a depth of soul to it. 613 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:22,800 Speaker 1: You know, God bless her. She's so good and she 614 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:24,120 Speaker 1: really makes the song for me. 615 00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:29,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so memorable, My god. Can you talk about 616 00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:34,160 Speaker 2: the song? So alive and in particular just the that grinding, 617 00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:38,480 Speaker 2: those sounds that you get out of the guitars there, 618 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:39,880 Speaker 2: what is that? 619 00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:45,280 Speaker 1: It's live, it's I think it's tuned down to D. 620 00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:49,240 Speaker 1: The low string is tuned down for a deep growl, 621 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:52,440 Speaker 1: and it's just in a burst of adrenaline. You know. 622 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:54,520 Speaker 1: It's just like I feel so alive every time I 623 00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:57,120 Speaker 1: see you. You know, it's kind of almost corny, but 624 00:32:57,200 --> 00:32:59,840 Speaker 1: the music I think gives it some depth. And it's 625 00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:03,600 Speaker 1: just a you know, dirty noms at their best and 626 00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:06,440 Speaker 1: the solos live on the floor, you know, the mistakes 627 00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:08,960 Speaker 1: and all, but it's just I just see it as 628 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:11,680 Speaker 1: a burst of adrenaline. And we got Steve and already 629 00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:15,520 Speaker 1: to sing oh oh oh there it's hilarious. 630 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:20,800 Speaker 2: I love it. Uh, don't wait up with Chris Stapleton 631 00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:26,520 Speaker 2: and benmont Tench. That is another stellar collaboration. And h 632 00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:28,440 Speaker 2: tell me how that came together. 633 00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:31,680 Speaker 1: That was an older song that we had played in 634 00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:36,120 Speaker 1: the bars before and I had a I discovered a 635 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:39,320 Speaker 1: two inch takee analog version of it that was really 636 00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:42,840 Speaker 1: really good, and uh, I tie you it up a 637 00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:47,240 Speaker 1: little bit. And Chris Stapleton was over to write one 638 00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:50,760 Speaker 1: day or something and I begged him to sing on it, 639 00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:54,800 Speaker 1: which he did. He sang great. And Ben came over 640 00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:57,320 Speaker 1: one day and we said, I have a Steinway in 641 00:33:57,320 --> 00:33:59,480 Speaker 1: my living room. He rarely used it. We set up 642 00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:01,400 Speaker 1: the MIC's in for him and he did one take 643 00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:05,280 Speaker 1: of Jerry Lewis on it. It's tremendous and it's a 644 00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:08,759 Speaker 1: funny song, you know. It's the words are kind of, 645 00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:12,160 Speaker 1: you know, I am the Walrus, a little bit like nonsensical, 646 00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:14,280 Speaker 1: but in a weird way they kind of make sense. 647 00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:17,160 Speaker 1: And it's just kind of got a sense of humor 648 00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:19,200 Speaker 1: in it. But it's a real burst of adrenaline. You know. 649 00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:22,600 Speaker 1: Guys are really going for especially our bass player Crawdaddy 650 00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:26,200 Speaker 1: Lance Morrison. He just altered the album. He's just pumping it. 651 00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:26,920 Speaker 1: He's so good. 652 00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:31,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, talk about Lance Morrison and how you love playing 653 00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:33,000 Speaker 2: with these guys in the Dirty Knobs. 654 00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:37,560 Speaker 1: Our guitar is a guy named Chris Holt. We call 655 00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:41,480 Speaker 1: him Sidewinder. He's from Texas too, and he's all over 656 00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:44,640 Speaker 1: this new record. He is a real breath of fresh air. 657 00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:46,960 Speaker 1: He's a great singer. He can play piano. A lot 658 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:50,799 Speaker 1: of the piano you hears him and the guitar. He's 659 00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:54,680 Speaker 1: just incredible. And his voice sounds real good with mine 660 00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:56,200 Speaker 1: because I need a lot of help, but he makes 661 00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:59,320 Speaker 1: me sound better and like go. There's another song on 662 00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:01,360 Speaker 1: the album called Shake These Blues, which is kind of 663 00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:05,759 Speaker 1: a rave up, and we cut the track live and 664 00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:07,560 Speaker 1: I said to Chris, I said, when we get to 665 00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:09,600 Speaker 1: the to your solo, just make something up. 666 00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:10,080 Speaker 3: You know. 667 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:12,759 Speaker 1: He's like and he did. He was right on the money. 668 00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,120 Speaker 1: He nailed it, you know. And he's like that. I 669 00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:16,640 Speaker 1: could just look at him, I can do this and 670 00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:18,239 Speaker 1: you go, all right, you'll do it better than I 671 00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:21,759 Speaker 1: thought he would. So he's Chris Holt was a real 672 00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:24,680 Speaker 1: fine and so I'm lucky to have those guys. And 673 00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:28,359 Speaker 1: now Steve Feroni on the drums is quite a badand I. 674 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:31,960 Speaker 2: Would say so speaking a sense of humor too, my 675 00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:35,839 Speaker 2: old friends. That one made me smile. 676 00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:41,040 Speaker 1: Good at this job. Well, you know that's a I 677 00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:42,640 Speaker 1: wasn't going to put it on the record because I 678 00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:45,560 Speaker 1: thought it was a little, you know, in joke, but 679 00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:48,759 Speaker 1: Georgia Cruleier said no, it would sound great at the end, 680 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:50,440 Speaker 1: you know, just a little breath of fresh air at 681 00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:53,359 Speaker 1: the end, and the little humor is good. And that's 682 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:56,520 Speaker 1: obviously just me discovering how to play with words. You know. 683 00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:59,800 Speaker 1: I got this idea that there's all these alcoholic drinks 684 00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:02,759 Speaker 1: could be people, you know, because they have names like 685 00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:06,279 Speaker 1: Don perry On or Captain Morgan. So I figured I'll 686 00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:09,160 Speaker 1: just make the Drakes the characters in the song, you know, 687 00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:12,400 Speaker 1: but say goodbye to them because you can't get sucked 688 00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:15,759 Speaker 1: into that world, you know. So it's a tongue in 689 00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:19,320 Speaker 1: cheeks song, but it is fun and Chris Stapleton actually 690 00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:21,360 Speaker 1: sings harmony on it too, which is good. 691 00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:25,360 Speaker 2: And tell me about Innocent Man. Since we've covered I 692 00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:28,360 Speaker 2: think everything other than Amanda Lynn, tell me about Innocent 693 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:29,040 Speaker 2: Man as well. 694 00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:31,759 Speaker 1: It's got that droney kind of I don't know what 695 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:37,200 Speaker 1: to compare it to. It's kind of Appalachian or Irish almost, 696 00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:39,399 Speaker 1: but it's got that riff in it, and it's got 697 00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:42,680 Speaker 1: another story song which I had these characters, and it's 698 00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:45,239 Speaker 1: also an old song that I used to play back 699 00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:48,040 Speaker 1: in the bars and that I pulled out and refined 700 00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:50,719 Speaker 1: it a bit. But I like it because it's like 701 00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:52,719 Speaker 1: a movie, you know, you could. There's a lot of 702 00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:58,160 Speaker 1: descriptive characters throughout the song, and it's partly autobiographical. There's 703 00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:00,400 Speaker 1: a version there where it talks about the attack training 704 00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:03,480 Speaker 1: dogs coming on the bus and sniffing around for drugs, 705 00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:06,960 Speaker 1: which actually happened to the Heartbreakers. Once it's going into Canada, 706 00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:10,120 Speaker 1: we had stopped and put all our pot and stuff 707 00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:12,960 Speaker 1: in a hotel room on the American side. We'll pick 708 00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:15,120 Speaker 1: it up after we come back, you know. So we're 709 00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:16,920 Speaker 1: going across the border at four in the morning, and 710 00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:19,880 Speaker 1: they stopped the bus and the German shepherd came on 711 00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:22,040 Speaker 1: the bus. He went straight for our tour manager's coat 712 00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:23,800 Speaker 1: and he had a little half of joint that he 713 00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:27,040 Speaker 1: forgot about. So they drug us in, you know, in 714 00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:29,600 Speaker 1: the freezing cold, and made a strip search and all 715 00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:32,239 Speaker 1: that shit, So that made its way into the song. 716 00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:34,360 Speaker 1: So there's a little bit of that now the title. 717 00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:37,479 Speaker 1: When I first wrote it, I was calling it immigrant man, 718 00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:42,080 Speaker 1: you know. And then George Coulius one day he goes, 719 00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:44,600 Speaker 1: you know, that's that's a cool idea, but you might 720 00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:49,640 Speaker 1: get a little you know, political whatever from that, and 721 00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:51,239 Speaker 1: I said, yeah, maybe, So he said, how about if 722 00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:52,920 Speaker 1: you call the innocent man. He said, you know what, 723 00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:55,680 Speaker 1: that's better. It's got a wider palette. So I gave 724 00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:57,319 Speaker 1: him credit for co writing a song. 725 00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:05,319 Speaker 2: Tell me what you have learned from being around two 726 00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:13,560 Speaker 2: of the greats besides Tom obviously Don Henley and Bob Dylan. 727 00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:17,239 Speaker 1: Well, how lucky am I? You know, my life is 728 00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:19,520 Speaker 1: like that. You know, things have been throughout my life. 729 00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:22,680 Speaker 1: I've just been charmed, things have dropped in my lap, 730 00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:25,719 Speaker 1: you know. And the thing with Don Henley boys this 731 00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:28,640 Speaker 1: summer was just something that was a chain of events 732 00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:31,719 Speaker 1: that Jimmy I have been kind of spearheaded that track 733 00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:34,880 Speaker 1: because Tom didn't hear what to do with it at 734 00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:38,400 Speaker 1: that time. He later said to me, Tom said to me, 735 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:39,920 Speaker 1: you know, I shouldn't have let that one get away. 736 00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:42,719 Speaker 1: Might have been in my presence of mind I would 737 00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:45,719 Speaker 1: have kept that one, but it ended up but with Don, 738 00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:48,680 Speaker 1: and he did an amazing, amazing job, and I'm really 739 00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:51,799 Speaker 1: proud of that song. And Don is just you know, 740 00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:55,800 Speaker 1: he's one of the greats, you know, and he's always 741 00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:58,200 Speaker 1: been really kind to me and very generous with the 742 00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:02,400 Speaker 1: songs that we've done. And of course Bob Dylan showed 743 00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:06,080 Speaker 1: up in our lives. We did a world tour with 744 00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:09,919 Speaker 1: him with the Heartbreakers, which he's very inspirational and eye 745 00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:16,720 Speaker 1: opening and just being around someone who's that special and deep, 746 00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:21,200 Speaker 1: I hope some of it rubbed off, but you know, 747 00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:23,520 Speaker 1: he was just so full of wisdom. He said to 748 00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:27,239 Speaker 1: me once, when you're writing a song, don't just write 749 00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:30,320 Speaker 1: three verses in a chorus, you know, write twenty verses, 750 00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:34,080 Speaker 1: you know, because you know, while you're in that place, 751 00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:38,120 Speaker 1: you're you know, number fourteen and fifteen might be great 752 00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:39,759 Speaker 1: that you would never have gotten to him, So you know, 753 00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:43,480 Speaker 1: channel and work for better lyrics, you know, And so 754 00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:45,520 Speaker 1: I try to emulate that. I learned a lot from 755 00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:46,560 Speaker 1: him just watching them. 756 00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:49,799 Speaker 2: So tell me how much you're looking forward to being 757 00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:50,560 Speaker 2: out on the road. 758 00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:54,480 Speaker 1: Oh, I can't wait the band? You got all these 759 00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:56,239 Speaker 1: new songs to learn. You know, we have a whole 760 00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:58,000 Speaker 1: new set. We'll have to let some of the old 761 00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:00,880 Speaker 1: songs go by the way side for a while and 762 00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:02,279 Speaker 1: working all the I'm going to play most of the 763 00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:05,239 Speaker 1: songs off the new record, and we've got a great 764 00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:08,359 Speaker 1: opening act. This girl, Shannon McNally is going to open 765 00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:12,480 Speaker 1: the tour for us, and the band is ready to go. 766 00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:15,640 Speaker 1: You know, I miss the crowds, and I missed the 767 00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:17,839 Speaker 1: whole I like being on the road, you know, and 768 00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:20,319 Speaker 1: I like playing for people. And we've got to the 769 00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:23,200 Speaker 1: stage where we can play theaters now. You know, we're 770 00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:27,320 Speaker 1: not in the biker bars. Not there's anything wrong with 771 00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:29,719 Speaker 1: biker bars, but I like the theaters better because it 772 00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:32,919 Speaker 1: sounds better and they're a little bigger, and so we've 773 00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:35,360 Speaker 1: worked up to that stage. I mean they're small theaters, 774 00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:38,719 Speaker 1: some of them are medium sized. But that'll make it 775 00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:40,960 Speaker 1: a lot more fun. You know. We'll have better venues. 776 00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:43,960 Speaker 1: And Steve Feroni on the drums on this tour. He'll 777 00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:45,520 Speaker 1: be a lot of fun to play with and the 778 00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:48,239 Speaker 1: crowd loves him, and we get to play all these 779 00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:51,399 Speaker 1: new songs. I'm just jazzed, you know. It's it's that's 780 00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:53,239 Speaker 1: what I do. I write songs and go play them. 781 00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:57,880 Speaker 2: You know, will you be writing on the road continuously 782 00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:00,760 Speaker 2: moving forward all the time? 783 00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:04,880 Speaker 1: I have found typically on the road, I'm so drained 784 00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:08,640 Speaker 1: from the tour the gigs that I don't write that much. 785 00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:10,279 Speaker 1: I tend to write more when I'm at home and 786 00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:12,960 Speaker 1: I have you know, free time. But every now and 787 00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:14,640 Speaker 1: then I might get a sketch of an idea and 788 00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:17,200 Speaker 1: I'll put it down. But mostly I'm focused on the 789 00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:18,400 Speaker 1: gigs when I'm traveling. 790 00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:25,360 Speaker 2: So as someone who is continuously learning in your craft, 791 00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:31,480 Speaker 2: in closing, what haven't you learned that you want to learn? 792 00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:34,480 Speaker 1: Well? I want to learn to be a better singer, 793 00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:38,680 Speaker 1: a better writer, and a better guitar player. I can 794 00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:42,120 Speaker 1: always get better as the beauty of the guitar and 795 00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:44,799 Speaker 1: music in general. You know, the more you learn, the 796 00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:48,480 Speaker 1: more there is to learn. I just want to get 797 00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:51,759 Speaker 1: better mostly though the guitar is kind of I kind 798 00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:54,080 Speaker 1: of just do that instinctively. I don't have to work 799 00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:57,040 Speaker 1: at it too hard as comes to me. But the singing, 800 00:41:57,120 --> 00:42:01,480 Speaker 1: I'm working on finding my own voice and writing my 801 00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:06,560 Speaker 1: own characters and putting songs together that you know, hopefully 802 00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:09,000 Speaker 1: will inspire people you know, I know I can get 803 00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:11,160 Speaker 1: better at that, so I'm going to keep struggling with 804 00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:12,439 Speaker 1: that to get as good as I can. 805 00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:15,839 Speaker 2: I am so grateful that we got to spend this 806 00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:20,120 Speaker 2: time together. Mike Campbell, Vagabonds, Virgins and Misfits. Go check 807 00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:24,000 Speaker 2: it out. It is an amazing record, and Mike, thank 808 00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:27,040 Speaker 2: you for the time, but thank you for all the 809 00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:29,279 Speaker 2: great music you continue to give us. 810 00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:32,399 Speaker 1: Well. You're very welcome, and thank you bus for taking 811 00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:33,440 Speaker 1: the time from me today. 812 00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:37,640 Speaker 4: Thanks for listening to this episode of the Taking a 813 00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:41,600 Speaker 4: Walk podcast. Share this and other episodes with your friends 814 00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:45,160 Speaker 4: and follow us so you never miss an episode. Taking 815 00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:49,080 Speaker 4: a Walk is available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 816 00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:52,320 Speaker 4: and wherever you get your podcasts.