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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stupidity, home of the greatest media mind ever

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Speaker 1: to walk the planet.

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Speaker 2: I tell you what, man, He's a literal titan across

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Speaker 2: the entire media landscape.

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Speaker 1: Okay, sure, here's a deal.

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Speaker 2: He's a true icon in every sense of the word.

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Speaker 1: He's loved and feared more than any being to Grace's planet.

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Speaker 1: There's got a bead with a voice that sounds like

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Speaker 1: very white.

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Speaker 3: And be got to say, hey, let you do it, baby.

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Speaker 1: God himself would pay thirty nine ninety nine for a cameo.

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Speaker 1: Fact of the matter is you are about to embark

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Speaker 1: on a transcendent experience that can only be described as

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Speaker 1: psychological nudity.

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Speaker 4: This is stu Goox and this is Stupotoy.

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Speaker 5: Here we go, jump.

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Speaker 2: Hot, mikey A, I'm not certain when the last time

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Speaker 2: is that we released an episode of Stupotoity. It feels

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Speaker 2: like free super Bowl, am I right? I mean.

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Speaker 5: It's been a while.

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Speaker 2: You're right, it has been so. I listened too, just

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Speaker 2: became too busy around super Bowl week and I'm still

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Speaker 2: recovering from Las Vegas. Keith O'Brien is a New York

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Speaker 2: Times best selling author. He's the best selling author of

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Speaker 2: fly Girls. He has a new book out, Charlie Hustle,

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Speaker 2: The Rise and Fall of Pete Rose and the Last

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Speaker 2: Glory Days of Baseball. Holy did he nail the timing

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Speaker 2: on a Pete Rose book. This is the definitive Pete

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Speaker 2: Rose book. Opening days here the show. Heyotani news. I mean,

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Speaker 2: this is the perfect tide to write a book about

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Speaker 2: Charlie Hustle. And one of the best writers we have,

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Speaker 2: Keith Obrian, has written the definitive book here. We'll talk

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Speaker 2: to him in just a second. Phil Heath is going

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Speaker 2: to join us as well in this episode. Phil Heath,

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Speaker 2: he's a man. Yes, he's everything you and I are

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Speaker 2: k not in so many ways. But I was intimidated

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Speaker 2: on the zoom Yes, I know so as I was scared.

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Speaker 2: I was. I was nervous to sweet to Phil Heave,

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Speaker 2: but turned out to be a really nice guy and

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Speaker 2: a fun guy. Yeah, Mike, are you interested? You're still interested?

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Speaker 2: Once upon a time, kids baseball was our most popular sport,

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Speaker 2: and Pete Rose was the most popular guy in the

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Speaker 2: most popular sport. And then he had gambling issues in

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Speaker 2: his downfall and they're well documented, and he's not in

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Speaker 2: the Hall of fame. But you're excited to speak to

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Speaker 2: this guy. This is he has access to Pete Rose

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Speaker 2: and the inner circle of Pete Rose when he was

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Speaker 2: playing with the Cincinnati Reds, and not many people, in fact,

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Speaker 2: no one has ever gotten the access that Keith O'Brien

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Speaker 2: has gotten here with Pete Rose. But you're excited for this,

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Speaker 2: right because you're from a time where baseball was popular.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and you know, it's amazing to me how Pete

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Speaker 5: Rose is known for one thing, but there's there's so

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Speaker 5: much more before the gambling thing ever happened. That is

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Speaker 5: so interesting that I'm looking forward to hearing about.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting because if you didn't watch them growing

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Speaker 2: up and you hear the name of Pete Rose, you

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Speaker 2: think about betting, you think about band from baseball, you

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Speaker 2: think about not making it to the Hall of Fame.

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Speaker 2: This is one of the greatest baseball players to ever live,

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Speaker 2: to ever play a sport where being good thirty percent

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Speaker 2: of the time get you to the Hall of Fame.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's a hard sport and Pete Rose is

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Speaker 2: one of the best to ever play it. But we

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Speaker 2: digress here because Mikey I have top five people in

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Speaker 2: sports and honor of Pete Rose. Top five people in

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Speaker 2: sports you just don't trust.

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Speaker 5: I think of a few names. Oh man, Okay, who

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Speaker 5: you got? I can't wait for this?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, all right again, this is the top five people

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Speaker 2: in sports history that you just don't trust. Okay, you're ready.

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Speaker 5: I don't want to say any names because I don't

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Speaker 5: want to ruin if you have them on there.

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Speaker 2: Okay, all right, so don't say any Number five just

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Speaker 2: you know what, if I left any off, just let

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Speaker 2: me know, okay, sure. Number five the New York Jets.

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Speaker 5: This is not a person.

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Speaker 2: I don't care. I mean, you're right, but that's not

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Speaker 2: a person whoever is running the New York Jets. That

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Speaker 2: fair the Jets, the Jets. Number four, number four, number

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Speaker 2: five Jets, number four.

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Speaker 5: Me, that's that's surprised. I'm surprised you're that low.

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Speaker 2: It was one of the names you were thinking of, right, yes,

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Speaker 2: thank you, hanshle Uh. Number three, Pete Rose a charmer,

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Speaker 2: I get it. You know. It was a very charming individual,

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Speaker 2: Pete Rose. But he's alive. That's Keith O'Brien. Will we'll

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Speaker 2: tell you here in a few minutes. Number three is

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Speaker 2: Pete Rose. Number two, all college football coaches, every one

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Speaker 2: of them.

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Speaker 5: Can we just put slash Jimbo Fisher because like.

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Speaker 2: Especially Jimbo one, we need to single out especially Jimbo

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Speaker 2: Fisher and that phony from Penn State, Franklin, that guy.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, no, I trust football coaches. Okay, go ahead,

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Speaker 2: you trust urban Meyer. Go ahead, have fun urban Meyer.

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Speaker 5: Oh that's such a great one. I hope he's number one.

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Speaker 2: I listened. I could have done five football coaches here,

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Speaker 2: you could. Is there a group of people in America

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Speaker 2: that you just trust? More college football coaches? Seriously? Like

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Speaker 2: I'm not certain. Put all the used car salesmen to

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Speaker 2: the left and all the college football coaches to the right,

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Speaker 2: and sprint to the group that you trust more. I'm

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Speaker 2: going to the used car sales.

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Speaker 5: Used car salesman ten times out of ten.

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Speaker 2: Holy sh that's funny. Number one, of course, top five

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Speaker 2: people in sports you just don't trust. Number one, Rick Pitito.

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Speaker 2: That's a good I don't trust him. If I'm the NCAA,

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Speaker 2: I don't trust him. If I'm another coach, I don't

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Speaker 2: trust him. If I'm one of his players, I don't

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Speaker 2: trust him. If I'm his wife. How about that?

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Speaker 5: I wanna trust him if I'm a busboy at an

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Speaker 5: Italian restaurant.

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Speaker 2: For fourteen seconds. I don't trust that anyway. Let's get

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Speaker 2: to Let's get to Keith O'Brien again. New York Times

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Speaker 2: best selling author fly Girls, Charlie Hustles his new book.

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Speaker 2: It's out right now, opening date, right around the corner

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Speaker 2: of the O Tani News. It's the Rise and Fall

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Speaker 2: of Pete Rose and the Last Glory Days of Baseball.

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Speaker 2: And Keith O'Brien is very busy. Man wrote me a

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Speaker 2: handwritten note that we'll get to in just a second.

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Speaker 2: But he joins us now all right. Keith O'Brien is

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Speaker 2: with us. He is a New York Times best selling author,

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Speaker 2: the author of fly Girls. He's with us right now.

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Speaker 2: Has a new book out, Charlie Hussel, The Rise and

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Speaker 2: Fall of Pete Rose and the Last Glory Days of Baseball.

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Speaker 2: It's out right now wherever you purchase your books. Mikey,

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Speaker 2: this is a writer. Okay. He sent me a copy

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Speaker 2: of the book. Here's the book. It's beautiful. It's beautiful, Okay, beautiful.

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Speaker 2: He sent me a handwritten note. I love a good

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Speaker 2: handwritten note, but I imagine what are you laughing at, Mikey.

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Speaker 2: I love a good handwritten note.

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Speaker 5: I agree. Leave it to a writer to give you

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Speaker 5: a handwritten note. You know what I mean. A media

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Speaker 5: person doesn't do that.

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Speaker 2: No, I would never do that, not just any writer,

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Speaker 2: a New York Times best selling author. But look at

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Speaker 2: the handwriting, look at the penmanship on this. I was

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Speaker 2: so jealous, Keith. How many of these handwritten notes have

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Speaker 2: you written over the years? Seriously, this is beautiful, Thank

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Speaker 2: you Stuar. Guys, that is awesome.

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Speaker 3: I had no idea that my handwritten note would impress

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Speaker 3: you so much?

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Speaker 2: Written you three right, listen, it's twenty twenty four, Keith.

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Speaker 2: How many handwritten notes am I getting these days?

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Speaker 3: I mean, well, you know that's a great way to

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Speaker 3: stand out, though, isn't it a handwritten note?

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Speaker 2: Yes? How many times have you written a handwritten note?

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Speaker 2: Because you're a New York Times bestselling author and a perfectionist,

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Speaker 2: and you know there's an expectation that comes with these notes.

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Speaker 2: Have you written it, ripped it up and tried again. Yes,

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Speaker 2: I have.

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Speaker 3: Even though that's a stationary right there costs about a dollar.

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Speaker 3: I have thrown that out absolutely.

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Speaker 2: Why is this book about Pete Rose. Keith, how was

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Speaker 2: this book different than all the other Pete Rose books

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Speaker 2: that are out there? Because this is different. This is

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Speaker 2: what what I would say is the definitive book on

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Speaker 2: Pete Rose.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think it's different in a few critical ways.

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Speaker 3: For starters, I did get unprecedented access to Pete Rose,

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Speaker 3: and more importantly, unprecedented access to the men in his

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Speaker 3: inner circle. You know, Pete granted me interviews for about

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Speaker 3: twenty seven hours before or he did stop calling me back,

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Speaker 3: and you know, but in that time I was able

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Speaker 3: to press him on lots of things and try to

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Speaker 3: get to the why of things. And just as important

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Speaker 3: as the Rose interviews were the interviews with many other

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Speaker 3: people who've never spoken before, the guys who placed his

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Speaker 3: bets on baseball, you know, mistresses he slept with for years.

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Speaker 3: And I also, you know, relied on thousands of pages

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Speaker 3: of previously unutilized federal court documents, because that's part of

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Speaker 3: the story here. You know, Pete Rose goes down in

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Speaker 3: nineteen eighty nine, not for something that happened three weeks earlier,

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Speaker 3: and not even for something that he was exactly doing

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Speaker 3: that Pete wasn't placing his bets with Booki's other guys

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Speaker 3: were doing it for him. But the men in this

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Speaker 3: inner circle doing Pete's bidding in the mid nineteen eighties

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Speaker 3: started to get monitored by federal agents, specifically the FBI,

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Speaker 3: and since each each of them would would face some

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Speaker 3: sort of federal charge, and so there were thousands of

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Speaker 3: pages of court documents that sort of helped me tell

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Speaker 3: a story of a man's fall. And I guess the

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Speaker 3: last thing I'll say is ste Gott's about this is

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Speaker 3: you know, obviously it's a baseball story, and and there's

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Speaker 3: a ton of baseball in the book, you know, but

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Speaker 3: I never really saw it as a as a baseball narrative.

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Speaker 3: This is a story of a man. And when you

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Speaker 3: think of Pete Rose as a story of a man,

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Speaker 3: well now it's a lot more interesting.

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Speaker 2: Sure, how'd you get access to guys who previously haven't

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Speaker 2: but in a circle? How'd you get access to those guys? Well?

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Speaker 3: So I was born and raised in Cincinnati, and that helped,

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Speaker 3: you know, And you know, when I first started the project,

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Speaker 3: I started doing interviews with guys in Cincinnati.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 3: I didn't try to get an interview with Johnny bench

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Speaker 3: out of the Gate or try to get an interview

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Speaker 3: with Pete Rose out of the Gate. I did interviews with,

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Speaker 3: you know, guys I knew were close friends of his,

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Speaker 3: and it was through those interviews that I got an

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Speaker 3: introduction to Pete's And you know, once I was talking

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Speaker 3: to Pete, he he did for a time open doors

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Speaker 3: for me. You know, I want to be clear. You know,

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Speaker 3: he had had and doesn't have any editorial control here,

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Speaker 3: which is probably why he did stop calling me back.

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Speaker 3: But you know, when he started open doors and the

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Speaker 3: men in his inner circle, you know, picked up the

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Speaker 3: phone and were happy to talk to me.

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Speaker 2: Were there things that you were writing that Pete was

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Speaker 2: not happy with? Was he trying to have editorial control?

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Speaker 3: He never tried. No, and because I wouldn't have given

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Speaker 3: it if he had. Sure, you know, in our interviews,

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Speaker 3: obviously we I tried to cover everything, uh and and

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Speaker 3: and one thing I think all of us have forgotten frankly,

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Speaker 3: I mean even me to a certain extent before I

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Speaker 3: started this, and even baseball fans, I think we've all

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Speaker 3: forgotten who he once was. You know, he's like become

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Speaker 3: a caricature of himself in the last you know, fifteen

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Speaker 3: twenty years, and we think of him that way now,

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Speaker 3: you know, as this sort of sad guy, you know,

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Speaker 3: at the casino, you know, shouting at the clouds, you know,

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Speaker 3: shouting at the sky, in the hinterlands of his own sport.

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Speaker 3: But one thing I wanted to do was go back

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Speaker 3: and place the reader placed us back in this time.

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Speaker 3: And he was he was, whether we like him or not,

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Speaker 3: whether we defend him or not. He was absolutely an

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Speaker 3: American icon, and he was one of the greatest players

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Speaker 3: and especially the most exciting players of the twentieth century.

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Speaker 3: And so to go back and bring him to the

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Speaker 3: mountaintop was important, you know, bring him, you know, all

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Speaker 3: the way up to his glory years and then watch

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Speaker 3: him fall off and through his own decisions and his

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Speaker 3: own choices, you know, was was was the goal from

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Speaker 3: the outset.

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Speaker 2: With the book, Keith O'Brien is with us New York

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Speaker 2: Times bestselling author Charlie Hustle. The Rise and Fall of

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Speaker 2: Pete Rose and the Last Glory Days of Baseball is

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Speaker 2: out right now wherever you purchase your books, Keith explained

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Speaker 2: to the audience, because it's such a great point and

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Speaker 2: kids who are listening right now, yes, once upon a

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Speaker 2: time baseball was at our biggest sport. It was not football.

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Speaker 2: Pete Rose was the biggest star, one of the biggest

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Speaker 2: stars in that sport. What did Pete Rose represent for

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Speaker 2: the audience? For the portion of this audience who does

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Speaker 2: not realize that baseball was popular at one point, Pete

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Speaker 2: Rose was its most popular player, Explain to the audience

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Speaker 2: just how big Pete Rose was and what he represented.

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Speaker 3: So that name of the book, Charlie Hustle is is

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Speaker 3: Pete's nickname, obviously, and it's his whole persona you know,

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Speaker 3: this man who would you know, you know, run through

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Speaker 3: a wall to try to score a run, a man

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Speaker 3: who would sprints down to first on a walk, a

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Speaker 3: man who got into fights at second base, you know,

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Speaker 3: just trying to break up a double play. And people

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Speaker 3: loved him for all these things.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 3: Piro's you know, wins, multiple World Series, multiple batting titles,

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Speaker 3: and MVP. He's the all time hit record holder, obviously,

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Speaker 3: but even if he didn't have those things, he still

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Speaker 3: would have been iconic. And and so he represented a

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Speaker 3: real American story, you know, because he was you know,

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Speaker 3: working class, because he was not so obviously talented because

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Speaker 3: he was not athletic at all, and yet these things happen.

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Speaker 3: And so that whole story, the story of if you hustle,

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Speaker 3: if you work hard, if you play hard, good things

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Speaker 3: will happen for you, no matter who you are. That

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Speaker 3: is an American story. And so you know, he represents

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Speaker 3: that writ large for all of us in the sixties, seventies,

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Speaker 3: and eighties, and he does so at a time when

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Speaker 3: baseball is rapid lead changing. I think another thing we've

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Speaker 3: forgotten is that, you know, when Pete was signed as

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Speaker 3: a minor league rookie and sent to Geneva, New York

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Speaker 3: as a minor leaguer in June nineteen sixty, baseball was

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Speaker 3: still predominantly white, you know, and and yes there were

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Speaker 3: a handful of you know, black and Latino stars, but

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Speaker 3: it was predominantly white. And in the time that Pete is,

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Speaker 3: you know, climbing his way to the mountaintop and becoming,

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Speaker 3: you know, one of baseball's best players, that changes too.

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Speaker 3: You know, Baseball becomes much more diverse. You know, by

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Speaker 3: the nineteen seventies, most of the big stars are Latino

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Speaker 3: and black, and at that time Pete now starts to

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Speaker 3: represent something else. For a certain segment of fans, he's

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Speaker 3: he's the old guard, he's the past or, even as

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Speaker 3: Pete once said, you know, he's he's the great White Hope.

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Speaker 2: What were some of the gambling details as we get

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Speaker 2: into the gambling portion of this, because well that's Pete's

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Speaker 2: down of fall. It was his vice. He had many vices.

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Speaker 2: But what were some of the gambling details that you

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Speaker 2: stumbled upon while putting this book together that you were

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Speaker 2: like you were shot by Keith.

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Speaker 3: Many you know, you know, I mean for starters. I

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Speaker 3: gotta say, even though he you know, did shut me

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Speaker 3: down and ultimately, you know, freeze me out, he did

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Speaker 3: talk to me about things that he hasn't talked about

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Speaker 3: in depth before. And you know, I can now say,

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Speaker 3: not just through those interviews, but through interviews with others

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Speaker 3: and coret documents, that Pete Rose is gambling with bookies

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Speaker 3: goes back to at least the early nineteen seventies. I'm

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Speaker 3: not suggesting that he was betting on baseball in the

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Speaker 3: early nineteen seventies, but he was betting with bookies. And

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Speaker 3: you know, in the early iterations of his gambling with

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Speaker 3: bookies on football and basketball, you know, a lot of

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Speaker 3: these guys are Cincinnati guys like himself, you know, west

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Speaker 3: side guys from his neighborhood, and you know they're not

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Speaker 3: going to chase him down and you know, rap him out.

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Speaker 3: And specifically, one of his first bookies was a man

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Speaker 3: named Alphonse Esselman, who's part of the book. Alslman's been

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Speaker 3: dead for years, but he was one of Pete's first bookies.

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Speaker 3: And Esselman gets in trouble in Cincinnati multiple times with

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Speaker 3: with with the law enforcement, with federal investigators, and you

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Speaker 3: know he would have had a chance. Alsselman would have

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Speaker 3: to maybe turn some evidence over to authorities in the

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Speaker 3: early nineteen seventies about who was gambling with him. He doesn't.

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Speaker 3: He protects Pete Rose and you know, as it goes on,

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Speaker 3: Pete sort of starts to graduate into, let's just say,

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Speaker 3: more serious bookmakers, you know, guys on the edge of

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Speaker 3: organized crime, Guys who don't live in Cincinnati, Guys in

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Speaker 3: New York and beyond, and based on my reporting, guys,

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Speaker 3: by the mid nineteen eighties, it is going off the rails.

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Speaker 3: I mean, we're talking about a guy who is betting

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Speaker 3: on eight to ten to twelve games a day, a

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Speaker 3: guy who's betting twenty five thirty thousand dollars a day,

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Speaker 3: and based on my reporting, not just with interviews, but

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Speaker 3: with notes from a betting notebook that one of his

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Speaker 3: guys kept in nineteen eighty six, Pete at that point

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Speaker 3: is losing as much as thirty thousand dollars a week.

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Speaker 3: And you know this was at a time when he

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Speaker 3: was making as his salary about a half million dollars.

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Speaker 3: So he's losing in a week roughly ten percent of

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Speaker 3: his salary. And so you know what does Pete Rose

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Speaker 3: do at that point, Well, he would do what a

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Speaker 3: lot of gamblers would do. He starts betting on the

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Speaker 3: thing he knows best. At least by early nineteen eighty six,

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Speaker 3: he's betting on baseball based on my reporting.

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Speaker 2: Wow, amazing. I wish you still had access to him,

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Speaker 2: because I'm certain you tried to reach out to him

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Speaker 2: to get his thoughts on Otani. There's a cruel humor

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Speaker 2: in all this. Like Calvin Ridley, he depends on his

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Speaker 2: own sport and gets four years ninety million dollars. Pete

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Speaker 2: is signing autographs in a strip ball in Vegas. I

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Speaker 2: mean it's crazy.

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Speaker 3: I mean the world has changed so much, I know,

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Speaker 3: and and I just sort of feel like at this point,

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Speaker 3: with everything that's happening this week, and we've got the

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Speaker 3: Shoheotani situation with his interpreter, we got the gambling investigation

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Speaker 3: into the NBA, right, I mean, headlines everywhere about who's

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Speaker 3: doing what with bookies or gambling platforms. It's like, I

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Speaker 3: honestly feel like this is just going to be the

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Speaker 3: new world order. This is what we're going to be

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Speaker 3: dealing with now going forward.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, should Pe be the Hall of Fame?

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Speaker 3: So you know, one reason why my book is different too,

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Speaker 3: is I don't take sides the book. You know, if

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Speaker 3: you like Pete Rose, you'll find things you like. If

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Speaker 3: you don't like Pete Rose, you'll find things you like.

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Speaker 3: And I don't take sides on the whole Hall of

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Speaker 3: Fame debate in the book. But of course I have

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Speaker 3: thought a lot about it.

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Speaker 2: We all have.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's one of the great late night sports

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Speaker 3: bar arguments of all time.

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Speaker 2: It just it seems completely illogical to me, Keith that

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Speaker 2: the hit king in a sport we're hitting is you

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Speaker 2: got to hit right. This guy is a career average

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Speaker 2: over three hundred. He's the hit King, and to not

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Speaker 2: be in the Hall of Fame, to me, it's ludicrous.

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Speaker 3: I mean, at this point, my feeling on the on

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Speaker 3: the whole question is that I just feel like we've

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Speaker 3: lost our perspective.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, we like.

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Speaker 3: To put these guys on pedestals and ascribe to them

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Speaker 3: moral values that they may or may not have. And

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Speaker 3: you know, at the end of the day, they're just

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Speaker 3: often just guys who were really good at playing a

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Speaker 3: little kid's game. And so, you know, for that reason.

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Speaker 3: For me anyway, I believe that players should be enshrined

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Speaker 3: or not enshrined based on what they did on the field,

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Speaker 3: and and if what they did off the field is

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Speaker 3: so terrible, if their mistakes are so egregious, then I

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Speaker 3: think we should put it on the plaque at Cooperstown,

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Speaker 3: you know, put it in put it in bronze, you know,

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Speaker 3: right next to their achievements.

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Speaker 2: I like that, here's all the negative shit about the

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Speaker 2: Hall of Famer you're looking at. That's a good idea,

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Speaker 2: Like it would never happen. It would never happen. Do

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Speaker 2: you like Pete?

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Speaker 5: Good question.

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Speaker 3: Pete has a thing about him that you've probably noticed

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Speaker 3: in other people that you've met over the years. He's

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Speaker 3: got a charisma that is almost palpable when you're sitting

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Speaker 3: across from him. And and somebody asked me, oh, did

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Speaker 3: he try to charm you? And I said, he didn't

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Speaker 3: try to charm me. Pete's just sort of charming, you know, right,

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Speaker 3: It's not like a.

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Speaker 2: Thing, you know.

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Speaker 3: And in that way, I was glad that I got

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Speaker 3: the chance to meet him and spend time with them.

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Speaker 3: And I was glad that I got the chance to

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Speaker 3: sit across the table from him asking him questions about

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Speaker 3: his life. Because when I did interviews with other people,

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Speaker 3: oftentimes people who had once been in his inner circle

401
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Speaker 3: but were no longer anymore, they were no longer receiving

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Speaker 3: his love and attention. Many times in those interviews people

403
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Speaker 3: became emotional, they broke down crying just thinking about the past,

404
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Speaker 3: thinking about the times they had spent, you know, in

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Speaker 3: Pete Rose's life. And I think that's just stunning, you know.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I've been fortunate to interview, you know, with

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Speaker 3: thousands of people over the years, and of course sometimes

408
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Speaker 3: those interviews become emotional, maybe because something really tragic has happened,

409
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Speaker 3: like a death, and so I did not expect that

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Speaker 3: kind of emotion in the interviews I did for my book,

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Speaker 3: but it happened again and again, And I think it's

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Speaker 3: because Pete does have that thing. He's got a thing

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Speaker 3: and a charisma that when you feel it does make

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Speaker 3: you feel important to him.

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Speaker 5: I'm curious how did those interviews go. I mean, you

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Speaker 5: sit down with him, and you know, you want to

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Speaker 5: get to some of the things that he might not

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Speaker 5: want to reveal or talk about right away. How do

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Speaker 5: you kind of get there when you do these interviews.

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, especially when you're taking on a big

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Speaker 3: project like this, where I know I want to tell

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Speaker 3: the whole story. I mostly moved chronological. You know, let's

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Speaker 3: talk about your childhood in Cincinnati, let's talk about your father,

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Speaker 3: let's talk about your high school years, and so in

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Speaker 3: that way, you know, it's sort of moved in a

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Speaker 3: direction that we weren't initially talking about the gambling. But

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Speaker 3: of course we did get there. And there were other

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Speaker 3: times where we'd be in the middle of an interview

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Speaker 3: about not gambling and suddenly, you know, he would you know,

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Speaker 3: go off on a tangent remembering something about gambling or

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Speaker 3: ranting about someone who had, you know, once wronged him

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Speaker 3: or maybe had led to his banishment, so you know,

433
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:17,639
Speaker 3: and then if he did that, then we would we

434
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:22,560
Speaker 3: would linger there and stay there. But obviously, you know,

435
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:27,760
Speaker 3: Pete has one version of events that he likes to

436
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:32,280
Speaker 3: tell and and my job in trying to do this

437
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:36,080
Speaker 3: book was to was to push push him on that

438
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 3: version of events. And you know, the big question I

439
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 3: kept coming back to time and time and again with

440
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:46,240
Speaker 3: Pete was why, you know, why weren't you honest? You know,

441
00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:49,240
Speaker 3: when they first called you in for a secret meeting,

442
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:53,080
Speaker 3: uh to say, hey, are you betting on baseball? Why

443
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:56,639
Speaker 3: weren't you honest? Ten weeks later, when John daw To,

444
00:24:57,119 --> 00:25:01,240
Speaker 3: the special counsel that was hired to investigate him, has

445
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 3: a two day deposition in the basement of a Catholic

446
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:09,840
Speaker 3: church in Dayton, Ohio, and which Dowd literally just lays

447
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:12,480
Speaker 3: out all the evidence he has gathered, you know, the

448
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 3: bank records, the phone records, depositions with his bookie, depositions

449
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:20,119
Speaker 3: with the guy who had placed his bets. Why not

450
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:24,280
Speaker 3: be honest then, you know, try to get inside what

451
00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 3: I would you know, call his darkness? And I don't

452
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:30,960
Speaker 3: want to overplay that. I think all of us have darkness,

453
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:34,000
Speaker 3: you know, that regret or that sadness in our life.

454
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:38,439
Speaker 3: And you know, Pete, you know, loves to tell the

455
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:42,400
Speaker 3: good stories. But getting him to talk about the darkness

456
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:45,840
Speaker 3: was a big key here because, as I told him

457
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:48,840
Speaker 3: from the outset of the project, if you are honest

458
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:52,400
Speaker 3: with people and you and you let them into your darkness,

459
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:54,959
Speaker 3: they still may not like you. They still may not

460
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 3: want to, you know, put you in the Hall of

461
00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:00,280
Speaker 3: Fame or forgive you, you know, but they might they

462
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:03,840
Speaker 3: might appreciate you more. They might understand how we got

463
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:04,359
Speaker 3: here more.

464
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:07,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's an endearing quality if he's able to

465
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:10,239
Speaker 2: do it. But he's but he's not. How much does

466
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 2: not being in the Hall of Fame haunt him till

467
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 2: this day? Does it still bother them? It does? You know?

468
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 3: In one of the more sort of haunting exchanges with

469
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:24,359
Speaker 3: me at one of his favorite diners in Las Vegas,

470
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:28,600
Speaker 3: you know, over a very very long lunch, we talked

471
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:32,120
Speaker 3: a little bit about that, and and Pete, you know, said,

472
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:34,399
Speaker 3: you know to me, and I'm paraphrasing here, you know,

473
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 3: people don't know how this has made me feel, you know,

474
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:41,119
Speaker 3: people don't know what my life has been like. You know,

475
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:44,160
Speaker 3: people say these things and they don't know me, and

476
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 3: and and about specifically, you know, the Hall of Fame

477
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:50,560
Speaker 3: and not being there, or just not having access to

478
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:53,119
Speaker 3: the Reds clubhouse, not being able to go into the

479
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:57,760
Speaker 3: batting cage with the Cincinnati Reds prospect all these many years.

480
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 3: Pete said, it drives me. It drives me crazy.

481
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,199
Speaker 2: Keith, will get you out of here. This is fascinating

482
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:07,440
Speaker 2: to me. Keith O'Brien with US New York Times best

483
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:10,720
Speaker 2: selling author, author of Fly Girls. His new book Charlie Hassel,

484
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:12,560
Speaker 2: The Rise and Fall of Pete Rose and the Last

485
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:16,360
Speaker 2: Glory Days of Baseball, is app right now. All this

486
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:18,439
Speaker 2: is fascinating to me. Do you think if Pete was

487
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 2: honest with Dad, with the Commissioner in those secret meetings?

488
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 2: Do you think if he was honest on the front

489
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 2: end of this, that he's in the Hall of Fame today?

490
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:30,400
Speaker 3: I would say it without question, And that's not an opinion.

491
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:33,639
Speaker 3: You know, I did a lot of reporting around that

492
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 3: first meeting in February nineteen eighty nine where they called

493
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,120
Speaker 3: him in to ask him, you know, when nobody knew

494
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:43,359
Speaker 3: what was happening. Still are you doing this? Are you

495
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:46,520
Speaker 3: betting on baseball? And I believe, based on my reporting

496
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 3: that if he's honest that day, or if he's honest

497
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 3: at any point that spring before he digs in, the

498
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 3: whole narrative is different. I'm not suggesting that Pete Rose

499
00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:00,680
Speaker 3: wouldn't have faced a punishment. He absolutely would have. But remember,

500
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:04,359
Speaker 3: this was bad for baseball. You know, this scandal was

501
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 3: bad for baseball, and the same way that the current

502
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:11,360
Speaker 3: situation involving Shohetani and his interpreter is bad for baseball.

503
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:14,159
Speaker 3: I mean, here we are, you know, opening day, the

504
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 3: baseball season is starting, and we're talking about gambling, We're

505
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 3: talking about interpreters, We're talking about alleged legal bookies. All

506
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:24,160
Speaker 3: of this is bad for baseball. This Pete Rose story

507
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 3: back in nineteen eighty nine was also bad for baseball.

508
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 3: And Barchiamati, the commissioner at the time, was a man

509
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:35,919
Speaker 3: of great purity and idealism and one of probably the

510
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:39,720
Speaker 3: smartest men who's ever led any professional sports league in America.

511
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 3: But Barciamani was also a man of empathy, and I

512
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:48,080
Speaker 3: do believe that if Pete had been honest with Bart,

513
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 3: that Bart would have done everything in his power to

514
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 3: save Pete Rose, to salvage him, to give him back

515
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 3: to the game.

516
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 2: Bad for baseball, bad timing for Tony Stuff, a great

517
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 2: timing for Keith O'Brien, a man who just wrote a

518
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 2: book about Pete Rose. You nailed it, man, Yeah, no way,

519
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 2: no knowing of course that it was coming. But holy

520
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:11,320
Speaker 2: did you nail it, Keith.

521
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 3: It's crazy, right, I know, crazy, yeah, and yet and

522
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:20,080
Speaker 3: yet not even that unexpected right in this day and age, right,

523
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 3: I don't expected. The only thing that's unexpected about this

524
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 3: is that it involves, you know, anything having to do

525
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 3: with our most famous ballplayer today shown.

526
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 2: That should be your next book, by the way, the Interpreter, Okay,

527
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 2: like dig in, get in, get on that now, like

528
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 2: get to the interpreter. Okay, that is a good title.

529
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 2: That's a good book title. Thank you, Thank you. Listen

530
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 2: fifty to fifty What do you think? I mean?

531
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 3: Absolutely absolutely, we're in last question on the way out here?

532
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 2: You what did you learn about Pete that you didn't

533
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:54,000
Speaker 2: know before you started writing this book. I know you

534
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 2: had a relationship with him, but did you learn anything

535
00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 2: new about Pete Rose? As you were putting this book together.

536
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 3: I learned a lot of new things about Pete Rose,

537
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:06,880
Speaker 3: about his life, about moments. Many of those, you know,

538
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:10,160
Speaker 3: moments and scenes are part of the book. I will

539
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 3: say the one thing that was surprising to me is

540
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 3: something that I think would be surprising most others, especially

541
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:20,280
Speaker 3: if you saw him play. Pete Rose does not like

542
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 3: confrontation in his personal life.

543
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 2: Interesting.

544
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 3: You know, this guy who played with all this fury

545
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 3: on the field and would he would happily fight with

546
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 3: another man at second base doesn't like confrontation. And so

547
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 3: you know this thing, uh, you know that he has

548
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 3: done to me where he was talking and now he's

549
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 3: not talking to me. It is something he's done to

550
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 3: others in his life over the years. And not just reporters.

551
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:53,120
Speaker 3: You know, he's he's done it to you know, guys

552
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 3: who were in his inner circle. Uh, you know, he

553
00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:57,840
Speaker 3: and and and and. In interviews I did with some

554
00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 3: of his some of the women in his life, his

555
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 3: ex wife, his first wife, and ex girlfriends, they all

556
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 3: told me Pete Rose is not the kind of guy

557
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 3: who would have an argument with you. He would just disappear.

558
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 2: Amazing, Keith, we appreciated Keith O'Brien, New York Times bestselling author,

559
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 2: check out his new book, Charlie Hustle, The Rise and

560
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 2: Fall of Pete Rose and the Last Days of Baseball.

561
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 2: It's going to do great. I'm certain it's already doing great.

562
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 2: My dad asked me for my copy. I said, Dad,

563
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:29,000
Speaker 2: it's personalized to me. So I made him go buy

564
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 2: a book, Keith, just so you know, because Pete Rose

565
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,080
Speaker 2: is one of his favorite athletes of all time, so

566
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 2: he's super excited to read this thing. We appreciate it. Man,

567
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 2: good luck with this thing. Great timing for you, and

568
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 2: I'm certain the book is going to do very well.

569
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 2: Thanks so much. I appreciate the conversation, Mikey. That was

570
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 2: pretty fascinating stuff with Keith O'Brien. Yeah, like he nailed

571
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:52,080
Speaker 2: the time. Yeah, I'm insanely jealous. I don't know why

572
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 2: I'm insanely jealous. I've never wanted to write a Pete

573
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:55,960
Speaker 2: Rose but but he nailed the timing on this, he

574
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 2: really did. Like, with my luck, my personal record book's

575
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 2: going to come out and Kevin Durant's going to win

576
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 2: the title on a really bad team. I say, with

577
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:07,440
Speaker 2: my luck, as if I haven't been the luckiest person

578
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:11,480
Speaker 2: on the planet. I was just gonna say, like, your

579
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 2: luck trade all I've all I've had is luck. That's

580
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 2: the matter with me. Anyway, You're doing just fine over there.

581
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:29,240
Speaker 2: Phil Heath is going to join us. I was intimidated

582
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:34,160
Speaker 2: by him, even via zoom. Uh. He is Uh. It's

583
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:39,720
Speaker 2: a very strong man. Yeah, yeah, and a very nice man.

584
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 5: Keith flexed on the zoom and I'm pretty sure my

585
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:44,720
Speaker 5: computer bent a little.

586
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 2: The new movie is out Breaking Olympia, the Phil Heath Story,

587
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:54,480
Speaker 2: and we'll talk to him about that. But in honor

588
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 2: of Phil Heath, here, Mike and I do missdoing stupidity.

589
00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:00,479
Speaker 2: I have top five heaths of all time? How about that?

590
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:05,800
Speaker 5: Not only is that fantastic, but that is also your

591
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:09,160
Speaker 5: second top five in one episode. I don't know that

592
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:10,560
Speaker 5: you can come up with five heats.

593
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 4: Oh I can.

594
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:13,160
Speaker 2: I can come up with six?

595
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:18,200
Speaker 5: All right, number six?

596
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:22,120
Speaker 2: Wait? Wait, hold on, I gotta make sure. I got

597
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 2: to make sure I have six here, Okay, hold on,

598
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 2: I have an ol. I you're ready, O l I

599
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:34,000
Speaker 2: Heath Ledger. I love that. Wow, probably the most famous heath.

600
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 5: He does. I'm wow, he's the only one I thought

601
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 5: of and here. Wow, the joker himself. Okay, yeah, he's

602
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 5: a lot. Number five Heath Bell. There is not a

603
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:56,840
Speaker 5: pretty sure hated in South Florida than Heath Bell. All right,

604
00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 5: we have the new stadium. Everyone's excited. The Marlins. David

605
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 5: Sampson five. He spent some money. He spent it on

606
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 5: the wrong guy. He spent it on Heath BELLA was dreadful.

607
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 2: Yes. Number four Heath Shuler nice, Okay, he's like a

608
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:17,040
Speaker 2: senator or something, right, see something. He's not a quarterback,

609
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 2: definitely not one of those. He was a quarterback, and

610
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:25,400
Speaker 2: of course Washington thought he would be a good quarterback

611
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:29,759
Speaker 2: and he was not. Number three Heathcliff Slocum.

612
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:31,160
Speaker 1: Wow.

613
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:36,360
Speaker 5: Wow, one of the worst trades in baseball history. And

614
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 5: Derek Lowe for Heathcliff Slocum, Well, that.

615
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 2: Is bad at Tech. Yeah, but you know what, then

616
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:43,640
Speaker 2: you have to have ver Attech on your team. And

617
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:47,719
Speaker 2: who wants that? He's not fun like, but can that guy?

618
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:51,960
Speaker 2: I just like saying that name, Heathcliff Slocum. That's a

619
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 2: great name.

620
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 5: It's a great name.

621
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 2: Yeah. Number two Heath Bark Crunch.

622
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:01,960
Speaker 5: Okay, boom. I don't think i've ever eaten a Heath

623
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:03,759
Speaker 5: Bar crunch. But I know I put it on top

624
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:04,399
Speaker 5: of ice cream.

625
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 2: It's a great topic for ice cream. It's a top Yeah,

626
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 2: it's a great You're right, it's the rare thing. It's

627
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 2: better as a topic than it is in its original form.

628
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:20,839
Speaker 2: I'll the top five of those next week. I'm just

629
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 2: gonna do a a top five. I gotta tell you,

630
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:26,839
Speaker 2: this running thing is easy. You like that?

631
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:28,240
Speaker 5: I like that.

632
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:32,359
Speaker 2: All right? Number one because I'm terrified of him, even

633
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:34,480
Speaker 2: though I shouldn't be, because he turned out to be

634
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:37,400
Speaker 2: a really, really nice man, a kind man, the gentleman

635
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:43,320
Speaker 2: of Phil Heath. But I'm terrified him even after interviewing

636
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 2: him and he's telling the audience he is nice, he

637
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:48,960
Speaker 2: is kind, he is warm, he is he's kind of quiet,

638
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:51,960
Speaker 2: you know, he's kind of shy. It seemed like a

639
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 2: little bit. Even knowing that now, I'm still terrifying of

640
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 2: Phil Heath.

641
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:59,360
Speaker 5: So he's number one on any list. He wants to

642
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:01,880
Speaker 5: be number one on from well, he told me he

643
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 5: wanted to be number one. He thought you dare put

644
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:04,920
Speaker 5: heath Bar crunch in front of me.

645
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:09,320
Speaker 2: You hear me? You got it? Phil breaking Olympia, the

646
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:12,560
Speaker 2: Phil Heath Story, brand new movie. It is out right now.

647
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:16,920
Speaker 2: Let's talk to the philm He's a seven time mister Olympian,

648
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:20,719
Speaker 2: seven time. He's a badass. Phil Heath is going to

649
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:24,600
Speaker 2: join us. He has a movie out Breaking Olympia, The

650
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:28,239
Speaker 2: Phil Heath Story. It's out right now, Phil, what's important

651
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 2: for you in terms of what you want people to

652
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:31,640
Speaker 2: hear about your story?

653
00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:36,719
Speaker 6: I want people to watch this knowing that it's not

654
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:40,200
Speaker 6: just about lifting weights and you know, consuming massive amounts

655
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:43,600
Speaker 6: of protein. Okay, this is more just about my life,

656
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:48,160
Speaker 6: my quote unquote last dance, and you know, just the

657
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:51,839
Speaker 6: ups and downs and the most vulnerable pieces of who

658
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 6: I am and where I came from and what I

659
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:56,719
Speaker 6: had to endure and how I came out on top.

660
00:36:57,360 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 4: What did you have to endure?

661
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:04,759
Speaker 6: Various parts of mental health, going through Division one basketball,

662
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:07,920
Speaker 6: after being you know, a high school standout and hoops

663
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 6: and getting that scholarship, thinking I was going to be

664
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 6: the man, and boy was I wrong, and just realizing

665
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:19,400
Speaker 6: that the sport of college hoops is a huge freaking

666
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 6: business and it is unrelenting whatsoever. I mean, it is tough,

667
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:27,480
Speaker 6: and how you know, I had some very bad thoughts

668
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:30,680
Speaker 6: and had thoughts of suicide and you know, tried to

669
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:34,279
Speaker 6: you know, end it at one point, and then realizing

670
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:37,719
Speaker 6: that since I am here, I have a lot of

671
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:40,320
Speaker 6: more work to do on the inside, and just realize

672
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:42,560
Speaker 6: that I have a lot of other things to be

673
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,560
Speaker 6: grateful for. And although basketball isn't one of those things

674
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 6: that's going to be my saving grace, it actually was

675
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:54,920
Speaker 6: because it positioned me right into bodybuilding. And man, I

676
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:57,279
Speaker 6: took that thing, you know, bull by the horns and

677
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:01,560
Speaker 6: didn't let go. And yeah, you know, it was a big,

678
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:04,920
Speaker 6: big learning lesson. I'm very happy that I was able

679
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:08,040
Speaker 6: to you know, share that story, you know, for the

680
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:10,600
Speaker 6: viewers because they didn't know that about me. But then

681
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 6: also how I was able to triumph through it. And

682
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:16,799
Speaker 6: you know, like I said, take those dumbbells, use them,

683
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:19,400
Speaker 6: but use the mind and the spirit to help me

684
00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 6: win those seven mister Olympia titles.

685
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:25,600
Speaker 2: Is it fair to say bodybuilding saved your life? I

686
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:26,239
Speaker 2: would say so.

687
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:29,840
Speaker 6: I would say bodybuilding definitely saved my life, you know,

688
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:32,560
Speaker 6: having some friends that you know, just put their arms

689
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:35,320
Speaker 6: around me, and that had nothing to do with hoops

690
00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:37,800
Speaker 6: because of the fact that you know, in basketball and

691
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:40,279
Speaker 6: you're in a team aspect, and then you think of

692
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:43,120
Speaker 6: bodybuilding as a singular thing. Well, yeah, you're up there

693
00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:45,759
Speaker 6: by yourself, but you you can have training partners, you

694
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 6: can have people that you on from far and from near.

695
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:50,879
Speaker 6: You just had to let them in a little bit.

696
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:54,560
Speaker 6: So yeah, you know, bodybuilding has definitely changed my whole

697
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:56,880
Speaker 6: entire life and saved my life, and I know that

698
00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:01,360
Speaker 6: it will always be one of those anchor in my life.

699
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:05,319
Speaker 2: What was the experience about college basketball that brought you

700
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:07,319
Speaker 2: to such a depressed low place? Like?

701
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:10,279
Speaker 4: What was it about that experience that brought you to

702
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:10,760
Speaker 4: that place?

703
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 6: I felt basketball in college was difficult because of the lying.

704
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:20,080
Speaker 2: You know, the coach are there say whatever.

705
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:23,880
Speaker 6: They want, and they can tell you, you know, hey, I

706
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:25,960
Speaker 6: need you to do X, y Z, and then I'll

707
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:28,320
Speaker 6: go to practice early and go work on those things.

708
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:31,720
Speaker 6: I'll exhibit that in the times that I could play,

709
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:35,080
Speaker 6: and then you just sit there, you know. And for me,

710
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 6: it was like all right, you go run the office,

711
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:39,359
Speaker 6: you go do this, that and the other. You score

712
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:41,399
Speaker 6: a couple of baskets and then you immediately get sent

713
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:43,880
Speaker 6: back on the bench. You're like, well, did I do

714
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:46,759
Speaker 6: something wrong? Why are you not letting me play. I'm

715
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:50,279
Speaker 6: actually in my groove, And it really had nothing to

716
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 6: do it with me. It had all to do with

717
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:56,719
Speaker 6: what their scheme was, what their job was, And you know,

718
00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:59,520
Speaker 6: that was really hard to dissect, especially again when you're

719
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:03,239
Speaker 6: asking for adjudication and you're being told you're doing You're

720
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:06,239
Speaker 6: doing fine, son, You're doing fine, And then you realize, no,

721
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:09,200
Speaker 6: I'm not fine. Isn't me sitting around and watching our

722
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:12,279
Speaker 6: team get our ass beat? And I want to, you know, help,

723
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:14,640
Speaker 6: you know, solve this problem. And I know I can

724
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 6: because I wasn't some scrub on the bench, you know,

725
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:21,160
Speaker 6: I wasn't some guy some easy bucket. In practice, I

726
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:22,920
Speaker 6: was the guy that was leading in the sprints and

727
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:25,640
Speaker 6: the drills. So, you know, when you don't have that

728
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 6: ability to contribute and you don't see your team being

729
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:32,000
Speaker 6: successful and they're preventing you from you know, being.

730
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:33,879
Speaker 2: Out there, it just it just hurt like hell.

731
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:38,000
Speaker 6: But yeah, I'm I'm kind of glad it did because

732
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:42,040
Speaker 6: it taught taught me that life sometimes isn't fair. You

733
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 6: can't always have some level of entitlement even though you

734
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:47,160
Speaker 6: do show up. You have to figure out, like, what's

735
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 6: the best thing to be grateful for, and that was

736
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:51,799
Speaker 6: actually to be able to earn a great scholarship at

737
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:54,880
Speaker 6: an awesome university.

738
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:55,960
Speaker 7: Phil What is a simple thing that you can't do?

739
00:40:57,080 --> 00:40:59,320
Speaker 7: Because I feel like you could do almost everything because

740
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:01,839
Speaker 7: wrong you are. What's something that you can't do?

741
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:06,120
Speaker 2: Well?

742
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:08,200
Speaker 6: I can't cook as well as my wife, that's for sure.

743
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:13,120
Speaker 6: I can't man well.

744
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:15,320
Speaker 4: Change a tire, Like can you change a tire?

745
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:17,360
Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, I had to learn that. I mean I

746
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:20,279
Speaker 2: grew up in the eighties. Guys like, so did I.

747
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:23,360
Speaker 2: I can't change a tire, I mean change change the tires,

748
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:24,000
Speaker 2: you know.

749
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:25,759
Speaker 6: I mean not on a new car, but like an

750
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:28,480
Speaker 6: old car, like you know, master cylinders and doing all

751
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:32,400
Speaker 6: that cool stuff, you know, working on old vehicles. But yeah,

752
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:35,760
Speaker 6: I would say. What I can't do right now is dunk.

753
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:38,120
Speaker 6: I used to be able to do that, and now

754
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:41,120
Speaker 6: I can't dunk anymore. Damn I can't dunk a basketball.

755
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:43,400
Speaker 7: Well, do you have anything that because of how strong

756
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:46,759
Speaker 7: you are, that you physically like can't do that thing?

757
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:48,600
Speaker 7: Like if you had to put like an icy hot

758
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:51,640
Speaker 7: patch on your back or something, you can't.

759
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:57,279
Speaker 6: Get around to the back, you know, hitting you know,

760
00:41:57,320 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 6: playing golf, right now would not be something that I

761
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:03,200
Speaker 6: were really good at right now. It would definitely hurt

762
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:07,480
Speaker 6: my back. But I still, you know, stayed limber as

763
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:10,480
Speaker 6: much as I can. But yeah, definitely, I would say

764
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:13,440
Speaker 6: playing golf would be a huge, huge challenge for me

765
00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:16,880
Speaker 6: because it definitely takes a lot of you know, movement

766
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:18,799
Speaker 6: of the hips and you know in the back and

767
00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:22,280
Speaker 6: all that stuff that your thoracic spine, all those things

768
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:24,680
Speaker 6: gets compromised, you know, lifting all those weights.

769
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:27,320
Speaker 4: What do you physically feel right though you're a good golfer?

770
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:31,200
Speaker 2: Is that I armory golf? I army golf. You know

771
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:33,800
Speaker 2: what that is? Yeah? Left right, left.

772
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:37,800
Speaker 4: Over the fairway, phil, is what you're saying.

773
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:41,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, and if it goes straight, it's it's not going far.

774
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:42,720
Speaker 2: That's that's my problem.

775
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:44,200
Speaker 4: So I need some help, right, But.

776
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:46,399
Speaker 2: How can you not hit the ball far hard?

777
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:48,600
Speaker 7: Well, that's the thing I would think that people see.

778
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:52,359
Speaker 6: You and yeah, it is straight, you know that. I'm

779
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:55,759
Speaker 6: like slicing that thing. It's literally going two hundred and

780
00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:58,239
Speaker 6: seventy five yards that way. I'm like trying to get

781
00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:00,239
Speaker 6: it straight. And then you see some kid go out

782
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:02,120
Speaker 6: there and knock it through on your yards you're like.

783
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:03,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, I suck.

784
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:04,839
Speaker 6: This is this is not good?

785
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:05,520
Speaker 4: You know.

786
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:07,560
Speaker 5: Of course, of course they're like, yeah, look at the

787
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:08,040
Speaker 5: big guy.

788
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:08,319
Speaker 2: You know.

789
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:11,040
Speaker 7: I feel like in that sense, it's annoying to be

790
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:13,239
Speaker 7: that strong, right because like people probably come up to

791
00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:14,600
Speaker 7: you all the time and like, oh, he probably hit

792
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:16,960
Speaker 7: it five hundred yards, or like anytime someone wants to

793
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:19,080
Speaker 7: get ketchup out of like a jar or something like, oh,

794
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:21,000
Speaker 7: Phil can open this jar for us, and then you

795
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:23,319
Speaker 7: know there's always that jar you can't open.

796
00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:26,680
Speaker 4: There's no explaining it. I love the idea, the visual

797
00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:28,000
Speaker 4: Phil trying to twist.

798
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 6: The guy where we see he saw like there was

799
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:34,680
Speaker 6: a clip it was from a few years ago, but

800
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:36,440
Speaker 6: a guy like with the water bottle.

801
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:37,600
Speaker 2: And he couldn't it.

802
00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:38,439
Speaker 3: Yeah.

803
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:40,680
Speaker 6: I saw that and I was like, oh man, you're

804
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:43,320
Speaker 6: making big guys look bad. Dude, Like this is bad.

805
00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:45,800
Speaker 2: At that point, you should have just bit the damn

806
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:47,399
Speaker 2: thing off, you know, like he just.

807
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 6: Went full you know, cool carnal, Like just just went

808
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:53,160
Speaker 6: full cave man on that thing.

809
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:57,040
Speaker 2: How many times Phil, he's bitten things off right exactly?

810
00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:01,319
Speaker 6: Not very often, don't have to, but yeah, no, the

811
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:05,280
Speaker 6: grip strength is something that you learn very very quickly.

812
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:08,439
Speaker 6: If you have it or you don't. I will say

813
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 6: I don't have like the craziest grip strength that like,

814
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:13,719
Speaker 6: let's say Brian Shaw, like a world strongest man has,

815
00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:15,160
Speaker 6: But it's pretty good.

816
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:17,719
Speaker 2: It's pretty good. When did you know, Phil that you

817
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:20,759
Speaker 2: wanted that bodybuilding was going to be something you would

818
00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:21,359
Speaker 2: do for a living.

819
00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:26,600
Speaker 6: I knew right when I won the Mister USA in

820
00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:29,080
Speaker 6: two thousand and five. Right then and there, I was like,

821
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:30,160
Speaker 6: wait a minute, I just.

822
00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:31,360
Speaker 2: Want my pro card.

823
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:35,040
Speaker 6: I had the cover of Flex magazine that same night.

824
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:40,640
Speaker 6: I already signed with them a month prior. But now

825
00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:43,440
Speaker 6: I get to renegotiate. Wait a minute, I'm getting paid.

826
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:47,480
Speaker 6: Wait a minute, I'm getting paid to go to the gym,

827
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:50,560
Speaker 6: getting paid to do the cardio, getting paid to eat.

828
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:53,240
Speaker 6: Wait a minute, I get I can get a food sponsor.

829
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:55,839
Speaker 6: I can get a you know, equipment sponsor. I can

830
00:44:56,160 --> 00:44:57,440
Speaker 6: get a supplement sponsor.

831
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:01,000
Speaker 2: Huh. So out pretty damn good.

832
00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:02,839
Speaker 6: As long as I just show up and show out

833
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:04,720
Speaker 6: like this life is great and I get to travel

834
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:07,239
Speaker 6: the world, you know, I get to meet a lot

835
00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:10,560
Speaker 6: of people. Man, this is this is really neat. So

836
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 6: you just have to get over one major thing that

837
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:14,919
Speaker 6: you got to train hard and do all those things,

838
00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:18,120
Speaker 6: but you got to wear those posing trunks. That isn't easy.

839
00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:21,480
Speaker 6: So that's something that we know a lot of people.

840
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:23,480
Speaker 6: They want to train, they want to do their thing,

841
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:25,240
Speaker 6: you know, they want to maybe lift up the shirt

842
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:27,160
Speaker 6: and show off the abs in the mirror. Sure they

843
00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:29,800
Speaker 6: ain't putting the trunks on and going up on stage

844
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:30,799
Speaker 6: and being adjudicate.

845
00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:33,520
Speaker 2: That's a whole nother animal. I'm tempted to ask you

846
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:35,320
Speaker 2: to take the shirt off right now. I want to

847
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:36,880
Speaker 2: see the guns. I want to see it all. I

848
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:44,160
Speaker 2: mean looking at oh my god, oh my god, is

849
00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:44,759
Speaker 2: going on?

850
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:46,960
Speaker 4: I'm looking at his forearm.

851
00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:52,040
Speaker 2: Wait, so what goes in first from a physical standpoint,

852
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:54,800
Speaker 2: like what type? Like what goes in to reach your level,

853
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:57,320
Speaker 2: which is the highest of levels. What kind of training

854
00:45:57,360 --> 00:45:58,960
Speaker 2: are you doing for this? Like? What do you do

855
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:01,359
Speaker 2: give us give give the audience a feel of what

856
00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:03,440
Speaker 2: it takes to get to arrive where you arrived.

857
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:07,000
Speaker 6: You know what's funny, I'm doing the same workouts that

858
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:11,839
Speaker 6: they're seeing online. Really, but I'm just doing it better, right,

859
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:14,399
Speaker 6: That's it, you know, I'm just doing it better. It's

860
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:16,839
Speaker 6: like when I was talking about hitting that golf ball.

861
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:19,760
Speaker 6: I can hit it. It ain't going to go anywhere

862
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:21,919
Speaker 6: where I want it to go. For me, I'm able

863
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:23,279
Speaker 6: to pick up I know how to pick up a

864
00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:27,200
Speaker 6: set of dumbbells, barbells, machines. I know how to use them.

865
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:29,080
Speaker 6: I know how to use these tools, probably a lot

866
00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:32,120
Speaker 6: better than the most most other people. I can take

867
00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:35,279
Speaker 6: the ego out of the weight session, and that is

868
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:38,080
Speaker 6: huge because the last thing you want to do is

869
00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:42,640
Speaker 6: lift incorrectly and tear something and do it for YouTube

870
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:44,440
Speaker 6: or something. You know, like we have that going on.

871
00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:48,040
Speaker 6: So I just know how to make sure that with

872
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:50,279
Speaker 6: the data that I've required over the past twenty years,

873
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:53,279
Speaker 6: what foods worked for me. You know what type of

874
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:55,239
Speaker 6: training is A high volume, is a low volume? Is

875
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:57,800
Speaker 6: a combination of both, and how to peak for shows

876
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:00,000
Speaker 6: when we you know all the different types of food

877
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:01,960
Speaker 6: that you guys look at it online, all these bad

878
00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:04,160
Speaker 6: guys and stuff. I'm able to actually look at that

879
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:06,640
Speaker 6: and say that's not gonna work for my body type

880
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:09,840
Speaker 6: because I know what works. And I also get massive

881
00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:11,480
Speaker 6: amounts of blood work done, so I know what I'm

882
00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:14,080
Speaker 6: allergic to. I just know these things. I just have

883
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:16,279
Speaker 6: as much data and I'm able to make it work.

884
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:19,520
Speaker 6: And that's where the common person, you know, they don't

885
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:21,120
Speaker 6: do those things. And I also do a ton of

886
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:22,000
Speaker 6: freaking recovery.

887
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:22,520
Speaker 2: You know.

888
00:47:22,600 --> 00:47:25,960
Speaker 6: I'm the guy that's in the infrared sauna, the cold plunge,

889
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:31,400
Speaker 6: I'm doing the acupuncture, the hyperbaric you know. I remember

890
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:34,319
Speaker 6: Tim Tebow doing hyperbaric and I was like, I need

891
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:36,560
Speaker 6: to get one of those today, and I did.

892
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:37,800
Speaker 2: I went ahead and got it.

893
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:40,840
Speaker 6: So I'm always looking for that one one percent or

894
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:43,040
Speaker 6: even point one percent advantage.

895
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:45,719
Speaker 7: Do you have an example of one of those things

896
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:47,920
Speaker 7: that you thought was the one percent advantage that you

897
00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:50,440
Speaker 7: then tried, Like this is just a bunch of crap, No,

898
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:52,959
Speaker 7: this is just you know, this is a scam.

899
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:55,560
Speaker 2: Oh the shakeway.

900
00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:59,920
Speaker 4: You did not well, I mean really you felt for.

901
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:03,200
Speaker 2: Mike.

902
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:05,600
Speaker 6: Mike, Mike knew it, you know, like yeah, you know

903
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:09,040
Speaker 6: we yeah, I hey, look you know that I was

904
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:10,759
Speaker 6: using that thing. I was like, wait a minute, you

905
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:13,360
Speaker 6: know more forums, right, you know, I'm like, man, you know,

906
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:17,160
Speaker 6: let's see. Then you're doing this right, I'm like one

907
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:20,719
Speaker 6: I won. I was That's what I was practicing for

908
00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:22,359
Speaker 6: us to be able to hold you know you're doing

909
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:25,160
Speaker 6: this and you're doing you're just getting.

910
00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:27,680
Speaker 2: Ready to you know, right for number eight, Yes, number

911
00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:31,319
Speaker 2: eighth breaking Olympia. The Phil Heath story it is out

912
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:34,160
Speaker 2: right now and Phil Heath is with us here. Uh,

913
00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:36,520
Speaker 2: what hurts the most on your body right now? Phil?

914
00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:38,640
Speaker 2: I know you've had you know, you've had some some

915
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:41,240
Speaker 2: mental stuff that you've had to deal with. But physically,

916
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:43,080
Speaker 2: what is what is the part of your body that

917
00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:44,160
Speaker 2: hurts right now the most?

918
00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:48,520
Speaker 6: You know, my left knee. I ain't gonna lie. I

919
00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:51,799
Speaker 6: had a torn MCL and didn't require surgery anything. It's

920
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:54,040
Speaker 6: just you know, I did stem cells a couple of

921
00:48:54,120 --> 00:48:56,000
Speaker 6: years back, and now I'm like, yeah, I'm going to

922
00:48:56,080 --> 00:48:56,920
Speaker 6: need another round.

923
00:48:56,760 --> 00:48:58,600
Speaker 2: Of that mid back.

924
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:02,640
Speaker 6: Uh, just from sitting so much, you know, I have

925
00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:05,440
Speaker 6: to move around more. I have to change up my

926
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:08,960
Speaker 6: whole tired you know training protocol, like not just weightlifting,

927
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:11,960
Speaker 6: but like doing freaking pilates with the wife, you know,

928
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:13,400
Speaker 6: like we're going to pilates.

929
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:14,879
Speaker 2: I'm like, what is this? And thanks?

930
00:49:14,920 --> 00:49:18,000
Speaker 6: You know, just opening everything up. So I'm just trying

931
00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:19,799
Speaker 6: to stay as limber as possible. But yeah, I would

932
00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:21,880
Speaker 6: say at the mid back and my left knee but

933
00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:24,960
Speaker 6: you know I'm able to move, you know, pretty comfortably,

934
00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:27,200
Speaker 6: to be quite honest. So I'm thanking God for that

935
00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:27,680
Speaker 6: every day.

936
00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:30,040
Speaker 4: Are you the greatest bodybuilder of all time?

937
00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:35,120
Speaker 2: Man? On that Rushmore? That's for damn sure.

938
00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:37,279
Speaker 6: I'll sit up there with Nice, I sit up there

939
00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:40,880
Speaker 6: with Ronnie Coleman, Lee Haney and Arnold. Ain't no one

940
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:43,200
Speaker 6: gonna come after us, so you know, to be in

941
00:49:43,239 --> 00:49:46,680
Speaker 6: that conversation is everything to me. I respect those eras,

942
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:50,640
Speaker 6: and yeah, I let the Internet figure that one out,

943
00:49:50,719 --> 00:49:52,359
Speaker 6: but it would have been one hell of a show

944
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:53,719
Speaker 6: for all four of us, that's for sure.

945
00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:55,880
Speaker 4: I'll take you. Listen, you're putting yourself with them out Rushmore.

946
00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:56,320
Speaker 4: I'll take that.

947
00:49:56,360 --> 00:49:57,920
Speaker 2: You're not going to say you're better than Arnold, you're

948
00:49:57,920 --> 00:49:59,439
Speaker 2: not going to say you're the greatest ever, but putting

949
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:02,799
Speaker 2: yourself on them out rush But that's acceptable to me. Yeah,

950
00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:07,919
Speaker 2: you're looking for my acceptance right breaking Olympia. The Phil

951
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:10,839
Speaker 2: Heath story is out now, since you played basketball, since

952
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:12,879
Speaker 2: you were two guard. We'll finish up with this question.

953
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:15,400
Speaker 2: We play a game around here. It's called shot for

954
00:50:15,480 --> 00:50:18,920
Speaker 2: your Life. Okay, so you're gonna choose a guy who's

955
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:21,360
Speaker 2: gonna take a shot. If he hits it, you stay alive.

956
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:23,400
Speaker 2: If he doesn't, well, you know what happens. You know

957
00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:24,120
Speaker 2: the outcome there.

958
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:27,399
Speaker 4: So Steph Curry or Larry Bird.

959
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:30,240
Speaker 2: You need a three pointer for your life here, okay,

960
00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:35,560
Speaker 2: Steph Curry, Larry Bird, shot for your life. Larry Bird.

961
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:36,480
Speaker 5: Oh you're alive.

962
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:38,200
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, he gets the game.

963
00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:42,560
Speaker 2: Verry Bird. Yes with the shooting jacket. Still long with

964
00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:44,239
Speaker 2: the jacket stile my man.

965
00:50:44,719 --> 00:50:49,840
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, even though Curry is away, you go bird right.

966
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:52,920
Speaker 6: I'm going bird Man. I mean, like, come on, like,

967
00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:56,520
Speaker 6: he doesn't lose a three point shootout? Never, right, who's

968
00:50:56,560 --> 00:50:57,320
Speaker 6: coming in second?

969
00:50:57,480 --> 00:50:58,880
Speaker 2: Right? Right? Nobody? Right?

970
00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:00,480
Speaker 4: That's Larry Bird is always the answer.

971
00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:04,320
Speaker 2: Phil, Well done, Phil Heath, Breaking Olympia, the Phil Heath story.

972
00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:07,319
Speaker 2: It's out right now, Phil. We really appreciate this. You're

973
00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:09,879
Speaker 2: too nice for such a menacing man. You are too nice, sir.

974
00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:12,120
Speaker 2: Thank you.

975
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:16,839
Speaker 6: I'm taring myself that way. You want me to turn

976
00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:19,359
Speaker 6: green and stuff like that. That's for David Banner, that's

977
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:19,879
Speaker 6: not for Bill.

978
00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:21,560
Speaker 4: You're too nice of a guy.

979
00:51:21,680 --> 00:51:21,919
Speaker 2: Phil.

980
00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:23,560
Speaker 4: We appreciate it. Good luck with a movie man.

981
00:51:24,320 --> 00:51:25,399
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. Guys,