1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:09,200 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A beautiful young mom out 2 00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:13,560 Speaker 1: running at the crack of jawn around four point fifteen 3 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:19,599 Speaker 1: four point thirty a m is abducted, raped and murdered. 4 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: Eliza Fletcher ran so early in the morning so she 5 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 1: could fit in all her duties as a mother before 6 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:32,160 Speaker 1: she went to work every day like so many of us. 7 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 1: Why was she prayed upon? In the Last Days A 8 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:43,959 Speaker 1: stunning update and the Memphis murder of Eliza Fletcher. I'm 9 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:47,160 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being 10 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 1: with us in the Last Days. A killer surprisingly does 11 00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 1: one eighty a U turn in court and please guilty 12 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:03,360 Speaker 1: to kidnapping and murder an elementary school teacher during her 13 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:09,400 Speaker 1: morning run. What makes the prosecution against Cleotha Abstin, aged forty, 14 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:17,399 Speaker 1: even more disturbing is that an unprosecuted rape case was 15 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 1: pending against him at the time he murdered this young mom, 16 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:27,480 Speaker 1: Eliza Fletcher. Why because the DNA had not been examined 17 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 1: it was the rape kit was just sitting on a shelf. 18 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:34,520 Speaker 1: Had it been examined, cloth Abstin would very likely have 19 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:38,039 Speaker 1: been behind bars for a felony rape. But no, he 20 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 1: was wandering around free and now Eliza is dead, her 21 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:47,120 Speaker 1: children left without a mother. That's right. Kleiotha Absent, aged forty, 22 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:52,600 Speaker 1: admits to the September murder of Eliza Fletcher, just thirty 23 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 1: four in a Memphis courtroom, a career criminal called evil 24 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 1: by Fletcher's family when he was sentenced to life without 25 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:08,800 Speaker 1: parole for murder one and aggravated kidnapping. This as we know, 26 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:13,920 Speaker 1: the convicted felon is also accused of raping Alicia Franklin 27 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 1: back in twenty twenty one. Her rape kit sat there 28 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 1: basically unnoticed for over a year. Nothing was done, and 29 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 1: while he's out walking free, never jailed or tried on 30 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:33,840 Speaker 1: her rape. He finds Eliza Fletcher and doesn't settle with 31 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:39,639 Speaker 1: just attacking her. He murders her as well. Again. Cleotha 32 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:42,680 Speaker 1: Absen Henderson, age thirty eight, arraigned at the Shelby County 33 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:47,520 Speaker 1: Criminal Court on multiple charges, including the rape and kidnap 34 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:50,920 Speaker 1: of another woman. Where did it all start? 35 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 2: Listen, It's been just over twelve hours since Elijah Fletcher 36 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:58,079 Speaker 2: disappeared and multiple agencies have joined forces, and I can 37 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 2: tell you there's a lot of concern in the community. 38 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 2: As time passes by. Where is Eliza Fletcher. That's the 39 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 2: question many are asking across the Mid South after investigators 40 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 2: say that Avid Jogger was adducted. 41 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 3: It's very important that if anybody knows the whereabouts of 42 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:16,520 Speaker 3: miss Fletcher to contact the police immediately. 43 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 2: Fletcher was jogging down Central Avenue around four point thirty 44 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:23,360 Speaker 2: this morning when investigators say she was approached by someone 45 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:27,359 Speaker 2: who forced her into a dark colored suv and drove off. 46 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 1: You don't want to hear that that's going on. We 47 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 1: want to find her. We don't know what's going on. 48 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 2: Hart Robinson is a friend of Fletcher and got the 49 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:40,240 Speaker 2: news this morning and immediately came to the area of 50 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:44,280 Speaker 2: Central Avenue and Zach Curling Street where she was last seen. 51 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:45,920 Speaker 1: Where everybody's desperately. 52 00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 4: Looking for it. 53 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 1: The search was on for the missing mom of to 54 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 1: Eliza Fletcher. You were just hearing our friends at WRG 55 00:03:55,760 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 1: Channel three. There were only two clues left behind listen. 56 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:03,560 Speaker 2: Fletcher's cell phone and a water bottle were found in 57 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 2: front of a home owned by the University of Memphis, 58 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:08,800 Speaker 2: and a safety alert sent to students. They say she 59 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 2: was reported and missing after not returning home from her run. 60 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 2: The suv that she was last seen in was spotted 61 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:21,599 Speaker 2: driving westbound down Central Avenue. Multiple agencies, including the FBI, 62 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 2: are assisting with the case. Would one goal in mind 63 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 2: find Eliza Fletcher. 64 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:29,520 Speaker 3: Our concern is to locate miss Fletcher. So if anybody 65 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:31,640 Speaker 3: knows where she's at, call the police immediately. 66 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 1: Really just think her life could have been spared. I 67 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 1: firmly believe it, and then the frantic search. Listen to 68 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:42,920 Speaker 1: our friends at NBC. 69 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 5: Around seven to fifty am, roughly three hours after the abduction, 70 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:49,960 Speaker 5: the suspect's brother and another witness telling investigators they saw 71 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:52,560 Speaker 5: him wash his clothes in a sink and clean the 72 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:56,039 Speaker 5: inside of the car with floor cleaner, according to an affidavit, 73 00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:59,160 Speaker 5: the brother also saying he was acting very strange that 74 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:02,640 Speaker 5: bizarre scene allegedly unfolding less than a mile from where 75 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:06,839 Speaker 5: police discovered the unidentified body late Monday. The affidavit also 76 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 5: says Abstin left sandals behind, Authorities using DNA from those 77 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 5: shoes to zero in on him. 78 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 1: So, while the frantic search throughout the Memphis area is 79 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:22,680 Speaker 1: ongoing for the missing mom, you see Cleartha Abstin frantically 80 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:28,919 Speaker 1: cleaning the back of his GMC washing his clothes and 81 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:35,600 Speaker 1: his brothers sing, wow, isn't that quite the coincidence? And 82 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:41,599 Speaker 1: then the gruesome discovery our friend's wrng. 83 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 6: A good wrenching discovery in South Memphis, as detectives confirm 84 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 6: a body was located a few yards away from where 85 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:53,760 Speaker 6: Eliza Fletcher's alleged abductor came hours after her kidnapping. Monday, 86 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:57,120 Speaker 6: Memphis police swarmed this area after finding a body in 87 00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 6: an overgrown lot near a vacant home on Victor Street, 88 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 6: The scene just a stone's throwaway from where Memphis police 89 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:08,000 Speaker 6: say thirty eight year old Cleota Absent came hours after 90 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 6: abducting Fletcher. They believe he cleaned blood from the interior 91 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:14,800 Speaker 6: of the suv used in the abduction and washed his 92 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:16,800 Speaker 6: clothes and his brother sink in. 93 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:20,600 Speaker 7: The past ten minutes, Memphis police confirming those new details, 94 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:24,039 Speaker 7: saying that the body they found yesterday is that of 95 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 7: missing mother Eliza Fletcher, and now the man they had 96 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 7: in custody already charged with her kidnapping, faces murder charges. 97 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:34,600 Speaker 1: And this is coming just about sixteen. 98 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:38,680 Speaker 8: Hours after they discovered a body here not far, they said, 99 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 8: within walking distance to an apartment complex where the thirty 100 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:47,279 Speaker 8: eight year old Cleota Absen was seen cleaning his suv 101 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:49,599 Speaker 8: shortly after the abduction. 102 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:55,800 Speaker 1: Our friends at Fox thirteen joining Wrag. When Eliza went missing, 103 00:06:56,400 --> 00:07:04,280 Speaker 1: the search ensued the defendant. The suspect caught on video 104 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 1: just cleaning, cleaning, scrubbing, scrubbing, trying to get rid of blood. 105 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 1: He would need some sort of hydrochloric acid to do 106 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:22,240 Speaker 1: that trick. It didn't work. Blood throughout his suv and 107 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 1: then a couple hundred yards away, the body of Eliza 108 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 1: Fletcher found just discarded in tall grass. Her Lululemon running 109 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:40,960 Speaker 1: shorts found in a garbage bag not far away, also discarded. 110 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 1: And now today we find out her abduction, her likely rape, 111 00:07:53,960 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 1: her murder could have all been avoided. How take a 112 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 1: listen to our friends at wat N. 113 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:09,320 Speaker 9: The man accused of kidnapping and killing Eliza Fletcher is 114 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 9: facing three new criminal charges tonight. The charges are from 115 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 9: another case in twenty twenty one. In this case, he's 116 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 9: facing charges for aggravated rape, kidnapping, and unlawful possession of 117 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 9: a gun. Memphis Police confirm a sexual assault report was 118 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:29,760 Speaker 9: taken on September twenty one of twenty twenty one. The 119 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 9: sexual assault kit was submitted to the Tennessee Bureau of 120 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:36,200 Speaker 9: Investigations two days later on September twenty third, but that 121 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 9: kit was not tested until he was connected to Eliza 122 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:40,720 Speaker 9: Fletcher's disappearance. 123 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 1: Did you hear that? Another aggravated kidnap and rape? All 124 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:52,640 Speaker 1: the way back almost a year ago twenty twenty one, 125 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:57,560 Speaker 1: a rape kit was taken, It was sent to the 126 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 1: Tennessee Bureau of Investigator the TBI, and not a thing 127 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:11,120 Speaker 1: was done. It sat on a shelf and in that 128 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 1: Manila evidence bag sealed shut with the investigators initials over 129 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:25,440 Speaker 1: it to maintain the chain of custody. Was the evidence 130 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 1: that would have put Kleiosa absence behind bars at the 131 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 1: time Eliza was kidnapped and murdered. Joining me right now 132 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:38,960 Speaker 1: in all Star panel to make sense of what we 133 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 1: know right now, But first I want to go to 134 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:46,319 Speaker 1: Dave Maattcrimeonline dot Com investigative reporter Dave what went wrong? 135 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:47,000 Speaker 10: Nancy? 136 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:51,520 Speaker 11: You know we talked about how quickly they were able 137 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:56,840 Speaker 11: to identify the DNA of Kleiosa Abstin on the slide 138 00:09:56,920 --> 00:10:00,680 Speaker 11: that they found at the kidnapping scene for as a pledger. 139 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:04,040 Speaker 11: They turned that around in less than eighteen hours from 140 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:06,200 Speaker 11: the moment they found the slides to the moment they 141 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:11,080 Speaker 11: identified the DNA coming from Cleosa absence. In the case 142 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:15,319 Speaker 11: from September twenty first, twenty twenty one, a woman reported 143 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 11: the rape, They did a rape kit, and forty eight 144 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:21,560 Speaker 11: hours later, on September twenty third, the rape kit was 145 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:27,720 Speaker 11: submitted to the TBI DNA case files. The problem is, 146 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:33,440 Speaker 11: unless they order a rush on the DNA, it goes 147 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:34,840 Speaker 11: into the regular file. 148 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:39,040 Speaker 1: Just stop, no offense, Dave Matt But I really don't 149 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 1: want to hear that, because that is all BS. I 150 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 1: know you're reporting, whether TBI wants me to hear. But 151 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:54,080 Speaker 1: when it comes to a life threatening violent crime, why 152 00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:59,520 Speaker 1: is there a wait? I pay half my paycheck every year, 153 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:03,960 Speaker 1: have been since I was a lowly assistant in the 154 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 1: District Attorney's office, since before that when I worked at 155 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 1: the library at Mercy University. Why do I pay taxes 156 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:18,479 Speaker 1: so Cleota Absin can walk free and murder Eliza Fletcher, 157 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:24,120 Speaker 1: leaving her two children with no mother. You know how 158 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:29,040 Speaker 1: much that screws a kid up forever. And you're telling 159 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:32,800 Speaker 1: me it sounds like with a straight face, that it 160 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 1: was in line to get analyzed. You know what, I 161 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:41,680 Speaker 1: don't want to hear it. She's dead and she endured 162 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 1: a horrible death. That sguv was covered in Blood Crime 163 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace with me now, Lisa Daddio for 164 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:06,959 Speaker 1: Police Lieutenant New Haven PD and she is the director 165 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:10,800 Speaker 1: of the Center for Advanced Policing and Graduate Program coordinator, 166 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 1: University New Haven. Lisa, could you please interpret what Dave 167 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 1: Matt was just trying to say? 168 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 12: Honestly, Nancy, the police department messed up on that one, 169 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:23,320 Speaker 12: and you know I really will. 170 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:28,480 Speaker 1: Wait, wait, messed up. Let's just analyze what you just said, 171 00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 1: messed up. This is more than just messing up. They 172 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:40,240 Speaker 1: didn't fall through the cracks. They screwed up horribly and 173 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:46,000 Speaker 1: Eliza is dead because they couldn't analyze a rape kit. 174 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 1: To Rachel D. Fisher joining me Special Guests, registered nurse, 175 00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 1: sex assault nurse examiner. She's an expert witness. She's author 176 00:12:57,280 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 1: of Taking Back the Pen and you can find a 177 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:05,720 Speaker 1: right legal are in consult dot Org. Rachel, do you 178 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:10,600 Speaker 1: ever get tired of hearing about one fail after the next. 179 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:16,559 Speaker 1: You deal with rape victims every day, and I keep 180 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:22,000 Speaker 1: screaming from the rooftops a rape victim is never the 181 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:25,560 Speaker 1: same like a child molestation victims. Yes, they can go 182 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:28,720 Speaker 1: on about life, they seem like they're having a normal life, 183 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 1: but they're never the same after a rape. Maybe you 184 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 1: can say it better than me, Rachel. 185 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:38,840 Speaker 4: Yeah, the impact that a victim has after being assaulted, 186 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:43,640 Speaker 4: it's lifelong. It never goes the way it's a murder 187 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 4: is one thing, that's the end result, but there are 188 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:49,160 Speaker 4: people living with the effects of this for the rest 189 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:51,679 Speaker 4: of their lives. And it comes down to the fact 190 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:56,160 Speaker 4: that jurisdictions, communities don't put an emphasis on crimes of 191 00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:59,560 Speaker 4: violence against women are the vulnerable. These sex crimes are 192 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:02,760 Speaker 4: just toss the side. There's not proper funding, we don't 193 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 4: adequately staff our law enforcement agency their crime labs. And 194 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:09,760 Speaker 4: then the statues. I mean, Tennessee, you don't even have 195 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 4: to the law enforcement agency does not even have to 196 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:16,040 Speaker 4: turn over the kit until sixty days to the crime lab. 197 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 4: So the statutes are showing, okay, there's not a priority. 198 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:23,800 Speaker 4: What can happen in sixty days. A lot can happen. 199 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 4: Other rates can happen. 200 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, like Eliza Fletcher can get murdered. And you know 201 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 1: another thing, Rachel D. Fisher, who is a rape sex 202 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 1: assault nurse examiner. It's a very very specialized area. I 203 00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 1: wonder what that says to the rape victim. Like klotha 204 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:45,600 Speaker 1: Absen's other rape victim. I mean, we already know of 205 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:50,520 Speaker 1: one when he was nearing adulthood, this one in September 206 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:54,520 Speaker 1: twenty twenty one. I wonder how that rape victim felt 207 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 1: when she would call and say, what status of my 208 00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 1: brutal rape case? And she said, oh, and she hears, oh, yeah, 209 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:08,040 Speaker 1: well it's in the queue. It's like you're at Target 210 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 1: and there's a long line, or you're at Kroger and 211 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 1: the line wraps around the cash register. 212 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:14,400 Speaker 13: Uh huh. 213 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:18,760 Speaker 1: No, she's not buying a dozen apples. She's trying to 214 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 1: find out about her rape case that forever altered her life. 215 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 1: And she gets told, yeah, you're in the line, they'll 216 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 1: analyze it. Meanwhile, this guy is walking free. But am 217 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:35,560 Speaker 1: I talking gibberish? Karen start because I feel like I'm 218 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 1: not getting through. I don't think I can scream any 219 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 1: louder in a studio. Karen start joining me. Now a 220 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:44,560 Speaker 1: psychologists out of New York at Karenstark dot com. That's 221 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 1: Karen with a C. 222 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 10: Karen, help me, please, Nancy, you're not talking Gibrich. This 223 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:51,640 Speaker 10: is how it happened. 224 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:56,560 Speaker 1: I feel like crying and fighting and hitting someone all 225 00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 1: at the same time. 226 00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:03,040 Speaker 10: People don't take it. See enough. Here's something that will 227 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:08,560 Speaker 10: damage someone's life forever. And I don't understand because police 228 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:12,800 Speaker 10: are supposed to be trained, They're supposed to know that 229 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:18,040 Speaker 10: they need to do something right away. And it is outrageous, 230 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:22,400 Speaker 10: just outrageous that they did not make sure that that 231 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:26,320 Speaker 10: came back as soon as possible. And who knows what 232 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 10: else he was up to. Nancy. 233 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 1: Oh oh, this is the tip of the iceberg. Karen, Karen, 234 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 1: Karen Stark. This guy, Claire Tha Apstin started committing violent 235 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:43,400 Speaker 1: felonies at age eleven that we know of. And you know, 236 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 1: Matthew Mangino, I'm not asking you to speak. I'm just 237 00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:53,200 Speaker 1: referring to you former prosecutor, now civil and defense attorney 238 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:59,920 Speaker 1: and author. He would argue, Oh, he was just eleven, 239 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:01,240 Speaker 1: the sweet little boy. 240 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:01,920 Speaker 14: You know. 241 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 1: I might buy that at eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen, but 242 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 1: then at sixteen, seventeen eighteen, I'm not buying it anymore. So, Karen, 243 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:15,040 Speaker 1: start when people say he started his one man crime 244 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:21,360 Speaker 1: wave at age eleven? How many rapes has this guy committed, 245 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 1: culminating in the murder of Eliza Fletcher? I mean, GINO, 246 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:29,160 Speaker 1: don't even bother jumping in and say he's innocent until 247 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:32,280 Speaker 1: proven guilty. I know that we all know that, and 248 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:35,520 Speaker 1: I believe there is a snowballs chance in hell that 249 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:40,359 Speaker 1: he may not be guilty. Okay, so that said, what 250 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:44,800 Speaker 1: Karen Starr say something so I can quit feeling like 251 00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:46,080 Speaker 1: I want to kill somebody. 252 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 10: You're not going to click the sorry anty, but this 253 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 10: is outrageous and people, do you know that psychotest start 254 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:57,800 Speaker 10: at an early age, so it doesn't surprise me that 255 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:01,560 Speaker 10: this began at eleven lageious. Part of this is that 256 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 10: he is not already under lock and. 257 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:08,680 Speaker 1: Key walking free to grab a lies. Okay, so what 258 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:13,679 Speaker 1: is the excuse? Take a listen to our friend Marcus Hunter. 259 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:18,879 Speaker 15: Scientists pulled the recently tested KITS matching Gabson Henderson for 260 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:23,960 Speaker 15: analysis nine months after it was received on June twenty 261 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:28,080 Speaker 15: fourth of this year, and completed an initial report of 262 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 15: the results on August twenty ninth. The sample was then 263 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:36,359 Speaker 15: entered into kotis, which we turned a match on September fifth, 264 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 15: which was within hours of Memphis police finding Fletcher's body 265 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:45,560 Speaker 15: on Victor Street, and forty nine weeks after MPD submitted 266 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:49,000 Speaker 15: the rape kit to TBI, the match of the September 267 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:52,600 Speaker 15: twenty one as SOULD came back to Cleota Abson Henderson. 268 00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:57,159 Speaker 15: The results were then reported to Memphis police, according to 269 00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:00,440 Speaker 15: court documents, Thursday, he was indicted all the org is 270 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 15: of aggravated rape, especially aggravated kidnapping, and gun charges in 271 00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:07,600 Speaker 15: connection to the crime from a year ago. 272 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:12,160 Speaker 1: You know, it's just all blah blah blah words. Now 273 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:16,879 Speaker 1: am I supposed to believe Matthew Mangino. I'm coming to 274 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:20,320 Speaker 1: you just as a legal expert. Don't put on your 275 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:23,879 Speaker 1: defense had yet, Okay, because we all know you're a 276 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:28,119 Speaker 1: former prosecutor, former parole board member, author of the executioners 277 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:30,720 Speaker 1: told so please don't start telling me he was only 278 00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:33,160 Speaker 1: eleven years old when he committed his first felony. I'll 279 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:38,399 Speaker 1: just say that for the shrink what you know, all 280 00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 1: this is bs right because they're saying that what it 281 00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:46,359 Speaker 1: was just a coincidence that when Eliza Fletcher goes missing 282 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:48,960 Speaker 1: and they go, oh, you know what, you're at the 283 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:52,880 Speaker 1: front of the line. Now, let's do that DNA kit. No, 284 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:57,320 Speaker 1: that's not a coincidence. There's no such thing in criminal law. 285 00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:01,200 Speaker 1: So they're trying to tell me that a ISAA goes missing, 286 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:04,840 Speaker 1: and then they go, wow, I think it's time that 287 00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:08,639 Speaker 1: we do the DNA on that file way back there 288 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 1: on the shelf. What really happened, man Gino, Well. 289 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:15,080 Speaker 13: I think what really happened is they were able to 290 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:20,639 Speaker 13: find DNA on the sandals that were found at the 291 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:24,040 Speaker 13: crime scene, and they immediately did an analysis. 292 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:31,080 Speaker 1: I'm not talking about that Matthew claritha Austin DNA is 293 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:35,959 Speaker 1: on a September twenty twenty one rape victim. Okay, so 294 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 1: why when Eliza gets kidnapped and there's a search going on, 295 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:45,000 Speaker 1: do they go wow, I think I think I'll run 296 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:49,640 Speaker 1: that DNA test. That's total bs. Why did they suddenly 297 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:51,520 Speaker 1: decide to run it then. 298 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:56,159 Speaker 13: To cover their butts? I mean, they failed. This was 299 00:20:56,240 --> 00:21:01,840 Speaker 13: a systemic failure to test DNA that was found at 300 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:06,360 Speaker 13: a crime scene, as simple as just running a code. 301 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:13,479 Speaker 1: Of combined DNA index system exactly. It was cover your ass, 302 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:19,280 Speaker 1: That's what it was. And I'm just wondering Matthew Mangino. 303 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:24,280 Speaker 1: Why did they select that particular rape kit to suddenly test. 304 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 1: I'm guessing that that rape occurred in the same mo 305 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:36,280 Speaker 1: modus operandi method of operation as Eliza's kidnapp that the 306 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:41,720 Speaker 1: victim may have described the same kind of vehicle. Something 307 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 1: about that rape kit, about that rape maybe it was 308 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:55,600 Speaker 1: in the same area. Just I don't know. Crime stories 309 00:21:55,640 --> 00:22:02,919 Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace, the prime suspect in the murder of 310 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:10,600 Speaker 1: a young mom, Eliza Fletcher, pleads guilty. Fletcher's family devastated 311 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:14,920 Speaker 1: in court. They read a statement and it partially says, quote, 312 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:18,080 Speaker 1: we have no idea what happened to you to turn 313 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:22,320 Speaker 1: you into someone so filled with a desire to hurt people. 314 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:26,480 Speaker 1: Whatever it was, it does not excuse or explain what 315 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:30,880 Speaker 1: you've done. You've changed our lives forever, and nothing will 316 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:35,439 Speaker 1: ever be the same. Your actions were evil. There's no 317 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:39,760 Speaker 1: other word for it. You murdered Eliza, even though she 318 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:43,040 Speaker 1: did nothing to deserve it. She didn't hurt you. In fact, 319 00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:46,080 Speaker 1: she would have been the first to help if you 320 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:52,560 Speaker 1: needed it. Remember, Eliza was kidnapped off the street while 321 00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:57,719 Speaker 1: jogging near University Memphis back on September two. She was 322 00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:02,600 Speaker 1: forced into an suv. Her body was found days later 323 00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:11,159 Speaker 1: near a vacant duplex. Abstin, who goes by the name CLEOTHA. Henderson, 324 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:18,160 Speaker 1: was arrested after police found his DNA on sandals found 325 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:25,320 Speaker 1: near the location where Eliza was last seen. An autopsy 326 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:30,480 Speaker 1: showed Eliza, a young mom, died of a gunshot wound 327 00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:34,639 Speaker 1: to the head. Before I go to special guest doctor 328 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:39,480 Speaker 1: Kristin Middleman from authram Labs, I want to circle back 329 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:45,200 Speaker 1: to Rachel D. Fisher, registered sex assault nurse examiner. Rachel, 330 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:50,720 Speaker 1: could you please describe what is the procedure that you 331 00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:53,920 Speaker 1: go through when you examine a rape victim and what 332 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:55,160 Speaker 1: is a rape hit. 333 00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:58,680 Speaker 4: When rape fickmam comes to the hospital, we do a 334 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:02,080 Speaker 4: headed two assessment and till general examer re collect evidence 335 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:05,720 Speaker 4: from all the intimate parts of the body anywhere based 336 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:10,679 Speaker 4: on the history, we submit this kit to law enforcement 337 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:12,160 Speaker 4: and law enforcement. 338 00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:15,960 Speaker 1: Slow down place. As I like to say, Rachel, we're 339 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:20,600 Speaker 1: not having tea at high grow with King Charles. Okay, 340 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:25,160 Speaker 1: when you say we connect, we collect DNA from all 341 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:30,040 Speaker 1: parts of the body that is certainly putting perfume on 342 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 1: the pig. The rape victim who has already been brutally raped, 343 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:40,920 Speaker 1: probably beaten, terrified, then has to go for a rape kit. 344 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 1: Then it's basically a pelvic exam and it takes a 345 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,000 Speaker 1: long time. What do you have to do. 346 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:54,080 Speaker 4: It's a very intrusive exam. We spread their legs, we touch, 347 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:58,200 Speaker 4: we look, we examine, We go into all the genitalia, 348 00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:03,639 Speaker 4: We swabbed, we in search speculum. It's retraumatizing for the 349 00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:06,280 Speaker 4: victim essentially, is what it is, because we're going back 350 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:07,080 Speaker 4: into these places. 351 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:10,600 Speaker 1: Okay, wait a minute. See you are an expert, and 352 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:15,200 Speaker 1: when you just roll off comments like that, not everybody 353 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:19,639 Speaker 1: knows what you mean when you say a speculum. Isn't 354 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:25,160 Speaker 1: that kind of like a reverse eyelash curler where you 355 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:29,680 Speaker 1: squinch the curler together instead, A speculum is something you 356 00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 1: stick inside the ladies vagina and anus and then you 357 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:38,600 Speaker 1: open up those cat female cavities and then you go 358 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:41,600 Speaker 1: in there basically with a search light like a flashlight, 359 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:45,560 Speaker 1: and you look around with a really long queue tip, 360 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:50,560 Speaker 1: and you look in there and you try and find 361 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:55,600 Speaker 1: with a swab. Yeah, everybody in the studio is grimacing 362 00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:59,480 Speaker 1: and looking away right now for a reason. And you 363 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:04,720 Speaker 1: swab around inside the anus and the vagina and hopefully 364 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:14,200 Speaker 1: you will get naked to the human eye sperm DNA. Right. 365 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:17,000 Speaker 4: That's the intent to get any any sort of DNA 366 00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:20,280 Speaker 4: off of the internal orifices of the patients. 367 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 1: Here, and that includes the anus. Correct. 368 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:26,320 Speaker 4: We do also swab the anis yes, And. 369 00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:30,080 Speaker 1: Then you have the rape kit combing as if I 370 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:32,600 Speaker 1: would comb my hair, what is that. 371 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:36,400 Speaker 4: We take a comb and we go through the head hair, 372 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:39,720 Speaker 4: pubic hair, getting any debris that can link it back 373 00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:43,159 Speaker 4: to potentially the scene of where it happened to corroborate 374 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:47,520 Speaker 4: that as well. Sometimes we do plucking of the hair 375 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:50,879 Speaker 4: in order to get DNA as well. So it's a 376 00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:54,399 Speaker 4: very painful, intrusive examine in some points of it. But 377 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,159 Speaker 4: when the victims are that brave enough to come in 378 00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:01,000 Speaker 4: for that, that's right there to step in their healing. 379 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:03,600 Speaker 4: And the first victim of this case with a positive 380 00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:05,680 Speaker 4: hit was brave enough to do that. So I can 381 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:08,720 Speaker 4: only imagine her seeing this that she was brave enough 382 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,720 Speaker 4: to go in and then nobody tested it until it 383 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,639 Speaker 4: was too late. I can only imagine what she's feeling 384 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:17,160 Speaker 4: right now. She was brave enough to do that initial 385 00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:19,720 Speaker 4: rape kit back then and here we are. 386 00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:24,840 Speaker 1: And the only way her case was finally processed was 387 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:29,440 Speaker 1: because Eliza was murdered. It took a murder to get 388 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:33,680 Speaker 1: her rape kit done. That's the harsh truth of what 389 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:37,800 Speaker 1: we're dealing with. Rachel D. Fisher, could you please describe 390 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:44,760 Speaker 1: the spectrum of demeanors your right victim patients have displayed. 391 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:48,320 Speaker 4: They come in sometimes completely with no affect, meaning their 392 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:50,800 Speaker 4: face is a smile, they don't frown, they're just quiet, 393 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:54,879 Speaker 4: they don't make eye contact. Sometimes they laughed and distracted themselves. 394 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:59,240 Speaker 4: Sometimes they're crying. Trauma presents in very different ways, and 395 00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:02,600 Speaker 4: each victim is different. And I've seen law enforcement or 396 00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:05,200 Speaker 4: even say, well, she doesn't seem like anything happened. We're 397 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:07,480 Speaker 4: not even sure if it's real because of her demeanor. 398 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:11,680 Speaker 4: Like you, I've heard it all. But each victim processes 399 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:15,720 Speaker 4: their trauma differently. So regardless of how they respond to it, 400 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:18,720 Speaker 4: if they're brave enough to come get an intrusive exam 401 00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:23,440 Speaker 4: in a busy er and have an examiner stick things 402 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:28,200 Speaker 4: into their bodies, something happened, nobody willingly does that regardless 403 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:31,000 Speaker 4: of what their demeanor is. They're there for help and 404 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:33,800 Speaker 4: we help them all the same, and we prioritize it 405 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,480 Speaker 4: on our end, and then we do the next step 406 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,720 Speaker 4: in our process is handed over to law enforcement for 407 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:42,800 Speaker 4: them to do their due diligence, which is supposed to 408 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:44,560 Speaker 4: me to take it to the crime lab. But Tennessee 409 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:47,000 Speaker 4: has a statute, but they have sixty days for it 410 00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:49,840 Speaker 4: to sit on their shelf before they're mandated to give 411 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:50,640 Speaker 4: it to the crime lab. 412 00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:55,320 Speaker 1: Sharon start As Rachel day fish er our sex assault 413 00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:59,640 Speaker 1: in nurse examiner was speaking, it's so painful, as you 414 00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:03,120 Speaker 1: would just hearing Rachel Fisher describing some women might giggle. 415 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,560 Speaker 1: You know, I'm thinking of these rape victims when it's 416 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:11,800 Speaker 1: so horrible, they can't even begin to grapple with it. 417 00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:13,360 Speaker 1: Karen Starr, that's. 418 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:18,160 Speaker 10: Right, Nancy, it is they disassociate. And you really can't 419 00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:22,320 Speaker 10: pay attention to how someone reacts to trauma and to 420 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:27,000 Speaker 10: death because everyone, each one of us, is very, very different, 421 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:30,280 Speaker 10: and there are people that cry. Think about you know, 422 00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:34,520 Speaker 10: when people sometimes get nervous and they start laughing, and 423 00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:38,360 Speaker 10: they're not laughing because it's funny, it's just their response 424 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:42,080 Speaker 10: that they have no choice. That's how they deal with 425 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:44,960 Speaker 10: that kind of a situation and that's what you're describing. 426 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:50,640 Speaker 10: I've been to funerals where somebody was so angry at 427 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:56,320 Speaker 10: the death of their spouse. They were furious, and you 428 00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:59,760 Speaker 10: would never know that this was happening because they're grieving 429 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:05,200 Speaker 10: and loving and pain and it all gets mixed up 430 00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:09,000 Speaker 10: when they have to deal with this kind of a situation. Terrible. 431 00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:14,360 Speaker 1: Having spoken to the rest of our panel, I'm going 432 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:19,680 Speaker 1: to lay it all in your lap. Doctor Crystal Kristen Middleman. 433 00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:25,880 Speaker 1: She is this chief development officer at the highly respected 434 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:31,920 Speaker 1: author ram Inc. You can find them at dnasolves dot com. 435 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:36,760 Speaker 1: One of their specialties, I have learned is taking old 436 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:44,240 Speaker 1: or degraded DNA and somehow pulling a miracle and getting 437 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:47,520 Speaker 1: a match. I'm talking about DNA that's been in mud, 438 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:52,800 Speaker 1: been under water, been through a fire, fifty sixty years old. 439 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:55,520 Speaker 1: And first of all, I want to know how they 440 00:30:55,560 --> 00:31:00,560 Speaker 1: made the match and what likely statistical identification we have 441 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:05,160 Speaker 1: of Cleota Abstin and any insight you can give us 442 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:12,480 Speaker 1: as to why they so horribly failed the first rate victim, well, 443 00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:17,560 Speaker 1: the last rate victim that we know of, and Eliza, 444 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:20,280 Speaker 1: how did that happen? I mean, you deal with this 445 00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:21,440 Speaker 1: kind of thing every. 446 00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:23,640 Speaker 14: Day, and we are We're going to deal with this 447 00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:26,680 Speaker 14: kind of thing every single day, and I, like you 448 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:29,520 Speaker 14: and everyone here at at THEM, believe that it's an 449 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:35,000 Speaker 14: outrage that we do not have the technology implemented that 450 00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:37,959 Speaker 14: would be able to stop this from happening. You know, 451 00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:41,680 Speaker 14: we talked about this every single day, but the Code 452 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:45,360 Speaker 14: of Testing system was created thirty years ago and nothing 453 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,480 Speaker 14: new has come to forensic since in order to help 454 00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:52,040 Speaker 14: these investigators. You know, you say the investigators might have failed. 455 00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:55,080 Speaker 14: I don't think the investigators are failing. We work with 456 00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:57,240 Speaker 14: these guys every single day. In fact, we worked with 457 00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:00,200 Speaker 14: CBI and they work day and night trying to make 458 00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:04,080 Speaker 14: things work. They're not given the technology that's necessary to 459 00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:08,240 Speaker 14: be able to clear these cases at scale. The government 460 00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:11,640 Speaker 14: is who's failing. The government has failed to fund and 461 00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:16,000 Speaker 14: adopt new technologies that would allow us the backlogs to 462 00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:20,560 Speaker 14: truly clear. We have backlogs everywhere because this technology is 463 00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:23,040 Speaker 14: the way that it's written right now, is not scalable. 464 00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:27,360 Speaker 14: You can't hire enough people to do on every single 465 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:29,680 Speaker 14: test immediately and have a result in eight hours. It's 466 00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:33,719 Speaker 14: just not possible. But there is new technologies here are 467 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:37,280 Speaker 14: this one of the new technologies that could help clear 468 00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:39,280 Speaker 14: a lot of the backlock that gets stuck when there's 469 00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,400 Speaker 14: no DNA answer. But there are other new technologies here. 470 00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:46,960 Speaker 14: Could you imagine doing this podcast on computers from thirty 471 00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:50,120 Speaker 14: years ago? No, you wouldn't. You would get the new computer, 472 00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:52,080 Speaker 14: you would get the best mic, you would do the 473 00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:54,760 Speaker 14: next best thing. You would do it just for your business. 474 00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:57,200 Speaker 14: Why isn't friends that's changing? 475 00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:03,560 Speaker 1: Okay? Hold on, doctor Mentelman, is far far beyond me 476 00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:10,600 Speaker 1: your knowledge regarding DNA and scientific testing. But I'm not 477 00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:15,520 Speaker 1: asking for a result in eight hours? What about eight days? 478 00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:18,520 Speaker 1: What about eight weeks? What about eight months? This was 479 00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:23,240 Speaker 1: a year. The last rape victim that we know of 480 00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:28,240 Speaker 1: of Cleotha Auston's was September twenty twenty one. You're preaching 481 00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:32,720 Speaker 1: to the choir, doctor Mettleman. I spent a third of 482 00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:36,680 Speaker 1: my time as a prosecutor at the Georgia State Crime Lab. 483 00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:41,880 Speaker 1: And can I tell you those people worn't like dogs. 484 00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:47,600 Speaker 1: Scientists in ballistics, in fiber analysis, hair analysis, DNA, blood, 485 00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:51,880 Speaker 1: you name it. They weren't like dogs. They already were 486 00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:55,080 Speaker 1: over time. What more do we want them to do? So? 487 00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:59,080 Speaker 1: Where is the fail? And I guarantee you the tb 488 00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:02,600 Speaker 1: I Tennessee of your investigation crime lab is the same. 489 00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:09,320 Speaker 1: So how is it he's walking the street to murder Eliza. 490 00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:13,200 Speaker 14: Because the system has failed to implement all the necessary tools. 491 00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:15,960 Speaker 14: You know, let me tell you, Nancy, It's just like 492 00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:18,440 Speaker 14: if I gave you a bicycle and I told you 493 00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:22,600 Speaker 14: go ahead and deliver mail all over the United States. Well, 494 00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:25,359 Speaker 14: how could you possibly deliver mail all over the United 495 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:28,520 Speaker 14: States of that bicycle. It would never happen. It's not possible. 496 00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:31,880 Speaker 14: But if there were cars and planes and roads and 497 00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:34,879 Speaker 14: everything else there and the infrastructure put all together, then 498 00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:38,360 Speaker 14: you could deliver that mail all over the United States. Unfortunately, 499 00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:42,000 Speaker 14: we are at the bicycle state of forensic science when 500 00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:45,920 Speaker 14: it comes to solving these backlogs with textical to murders. 501 00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:49,840 Speaker 14: We are DNA testing. Is that it's infancy still and 502 00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:53,279 Speaker 14: there are so many ways. I mean, our technology, we 503 00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:56,000 Speaker 14: don't need a code of database to identify someone. You 504 00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:58,279 Speaker 14: don't have to have raped someone else in order for 505 00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:01,520 Speaker 14: us to identify you. The biggest key you can rate 506 00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:05,359 Speaker 14: one person and get identified the very very first time. 507 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:09,359 Speaker 14: Yet our technology isn't widely used everywhere because. 508 00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:10,960 Speaker 10: People scream all sorts of stuff. 509 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:12,640 Speaker 14: Oh well, it's new. We don't know if the works. 510 00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:15,560 Speaker 14: Oh my god, privacy, oh this, oh well, the government's 511 00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:18,440 Speaker 14: slow and funding it. I want to perpetrate her in 512 00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:20,359 Speaker 14: jail the first time they commit a crime. I don't 513 00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:22,040 Speaker 14: want to have to wait till the second victim and 514 00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:24,360 Speaker 14: the third victim, or the eleventh or twelfth victim. 515 00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:25,960 Speaker 1: And trust me, we've. 516 00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:28,879 Speaker 14: Identified those as well. They're in coded so many many 517 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:31,920 Speaker 14: times then no one's ever identified them. They come to 518 00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:34,280 Speaker 14: us finally, and now they're identified and all these crimes 519 00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:36,640 Speaker 14: are solved. That's devastating. 520 00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:40,640 Speaker 1: You're hearing the voice of doctor Kristen Middleman, chief development 521 00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:44,239 Speaker 1: officer at all Ram Lab. You can find her at 522 00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:50,920 Speaker 1: dnasolves dot com explaining how we don't even need another 523 00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:56,640 Speaker 1: rate or murder to identify cloth Aston from his last right, 524 00:35:56,840 --> 00:35:59,960 Speaker 1: but it was never done. Take a listen to more 525 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:01,520 Speaker 1: arcus Hunter WRG. 526 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:07,080 Speaker 15: The TBI accepts RUSH DNA cases when requested by a 527 00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:11,160 Speaker 15: local investigative agency, as we did in the recent Eliza 528 00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:14,880 Speaker 15: Fletcher case. It went on to say, our scientists identified 529 00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:19,440 Speaker 15: Cleyota Apston as a suspect less than eighteen hours after 530 00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:23,239 Speaker 15: receiving a key evidence. The agency said the sample they 531 00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:27,560 Speaker 15: received in September of last year was not submitted as 532 00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:31,440 Speaker 15: a rush case. Therefore it was placed with the standard 533 00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:35,320 Speaker 15: case work, which can have an average turnaround of thirty 534 00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:37,279 Speaker 15: three to forty nine weeks. 535 00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:40,400 Speaker 1: So, Lisa, Daddy, what does it take to be a 536 00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:46,000 Speaker 1: rush case? I mean, Coleota Abstin in court today are 537 00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:49,919 Speaker 1: new charges of a violent rape and as they say, 538 00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:53,759 Speaker 1: especially dangerous kidnap. Why was that not a rush case 539 00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:55,239 Speaker 1: back in September twenty twenty one? 540 00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:59,280 Speaker 12: It should have been when you have a stranger repe 541 00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:03,280 Speaker 12: and given the circumstances of what we know, that should 542 00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:07,000 Speaker 12: have been a rush because we know they're going to 543 00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:10,880 Speaker 12: hit again. It's not just one and done. So I 544 00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:14,759 Speaker 12: don't understand how a year ago that case was not 545 00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:17,080 Speaker 12: rushed to try to identify the who. 546 00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:20,760 Speaker 1: A violent rate, a brutal kidnapping is not a rush 547 00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:25,480 Speaker 1: then what is? In a statement Eliza's family say they 548 00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:32,040 Speaker 1: quote missed the bright light of Eliza's life every day. 549 00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:39,120 Speaker 1: Can you even imagine what this has done to her children? Now? 550 00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:43,560 Speaker 1: Abstin was sentenced to eighty years behind bars in May 551 00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:47,640 Speaker 1: for raping a woman a year before he's charged in 552 00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:52,520 Speaker 1: Eliza's murder. He was convicted of raping the woman while 553 00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:58,960 Speaker 1: holding her at gunpoint. Then Eliza is murdered with a 554 00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:03,000 Speaker 1: gun absence. Criminal history, as I have mentioned, goes all 555 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:05,960 Speaker 1: the way back to the nineties when he was a juvenile. 556 00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:10,360 Speaker 1: He had not been charged in the rape until after 557 00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:14,400 Speaker 1: being charged a year later for murdering Fletcher because of 558 00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:18,280 Speaker 1: a as they say, long delay in processing the sex 559 00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:25,000 Speaker 1: assault kit. Now, after Eliza was murdered, the Tennessee legislature 560 00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:30,120 Speaker 1: passed a law requiring the TBI to issue a quarterly 561 00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:36,520 Speaker 1: report on sex assault kit testing times. That was a 562 00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:43,040 Speaker 1: good move. Our prayers, of course, with Eliza Fletcher's family 563 00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:56,960 Speaker 1: as justice un false. Goodbye for him.