Speaker 1: So many of us don't live in the present moment
Speaker 1: and can't feel grateful for what's available because we're focusing
Speaker 1: on how much we wish it wasn't the case right here,
Speaker 1: right now, when we can sit in radical acceptance of
Speaker 1: what is here now, and we can maybe change the
Speaker 1: way we're filtering, giving ourselves the opportunity to possibly springboard
Speaker 1: us into a future that's different welcome to the one
Speaker 1: you feed Throughout time, great thinkers have recognized the importance
Speaker 1: of the thoughts we have, quotes like garbage in, garbage out,
Speaker 1: or you are what you think ring true, and yet
Speaker 1: for many of us, our thoughts don't strengthen or empower us.
Speaker 1: We tend toward negativity, self pity, jealousy, or fear. We
Speaker 1: see what we don't have instead of what we do.
Speaker 1: We think things that hold us back and dampen our spirit.
Speaker 1: But it's not just about thinking. Our actions matter. It
Speaker 1: takes conscious, consistent, creative effort to make a life worth living.
Speaker 1: This podcast is about how other people keep themselves moving
Speaker 1: in the right direction, how they feed their good wolf.
Speaker 1: Hello everyone, I am doing the intro this week instead
Speaker 1: of Christopher because this is a special episode of the
Speaker 1: one You Feed podcast. We've done these in the past,
Speaker 1: and what we do is talk to some of our
Speaker 1: favorite people about one single topic. And the topic we're
Speaker 1: going to explore in this episode is gratitude. For those
Speaker 1: of you in the States, you know, it's Thanksgiving week
Speaker 1: at least if you're listening to this right when it
Speaker 1: comes out, So gratitude is top of mind for many
Speaker 1: of us. But even more than that, this topic is
Speaker 1: really important because it is one of the most impactful
Speaker 1: practices that we can use to meaningfully improve the way
Speaker 1: we experience our lives. But very often we struggle to
Speaker 1: make it a regular practice. So why is that and
Speaker 1: what can we do about it? And why should we
Speaker 1: try or even care. I'll explore these questions and more
Speaker 1: with our guests Martha beck A, J Jacobs, Dr. Nicole Lapera,
Speaker 1: Susan Kine, and Corey Allen. I really hope you enjoy it.
Speaker 1: But before we dive in, I wanted to share another
Speaker 1: thing that we've started doing with listeners. I'm sending a
Speaker 1: couple of text messages for each podcast episode with positive
Speaker 1: reminders about what's discussed and invitations to apply the wisdom
Speaker 1: in your own life. It's free, and listeners who are
Speaker 1: part of the program have told me that these texts
Speaker 1: really help pull them out of autopilot and help them
Speaker 1: to reconnect with what's important. When you get a text
Speaker 1: from me during your day to day life, it's one
Speaker 1: more thing that helps you further bridge the gap between
Speaker 1: what you know and what you do. They're positive messages
Speaker 1: when you need them from me to you. So if
Speaker 1: you'd like to hear from me a few times week
Speaker 1: via text, go to one you feed dot net slash
Speaker 1: text and sign up for free. Now onto this special
Speaker 1: episode all about gratitude. Up first on the Gratitude episode
Speaker 1: from the Holistic Psychologist dot com, Dr Nicole Lepera, What
Speaker 1: does gratitude mean to you? I think the most simple
Speaker 1: definition that I like to offer for gratitude is acknowledgement
Speaker 1: of what is being I think fully present, and I'm
Speaker 1: being very intentional about adding this step in. I think
Speaker 1: a lot of times when we think of gratitude's right
Speaker 1: feeling grateful, appreciative or some version of appreciation for something
Speaker 1: we have or and or receiving the appreciation from someone
Speaker 1: or something for some aspect of us. I think what
Speaker 1: is really important in my opinion to incorporate into the
Speaker 1: definition of gratitude is that presence around what is not
Speaker 1: in judgment, not in criticism, around just the pure objectivity
Speaker 1: of what is present, here and now. And the reason
Speaker 1: why I'm emphasizing that in particulars so many of us
Speaker 1: aren't living in the present moment. We're recycling past moments,
Speaker 1: past trauma that lives in our mind and body, and
Speaker 1: that is coloring our experience, our interpretation of what may
Speaker 1: or may not be present, or limitations that may or
Speaker 1: may not be here, right here, right now. However, again
Speaker 1: it's a remnant of our past. So grounding ourselves in
Speaker 1: the present moment objectively around what is and then allowing
Speaker 1: us to expand into that feeling of appreciation, I think
Speaker 1: is how I operationally kind of talk about the embodiment
Speaker 1: of the practice of gratitude, which I believe is foundationally
Speaker 1: important and healing. So what are some of the practices
Speaker 1: for gratitude that you most recommend for people? I think
Speaker 1: there's a lot of different ways we can practice that acknowledgement,
Speaker 1: Just again highlighting the first aspect of that which is
Speaker 1: becoming conscious even to the present moment, to what is
Speaker 1: here available you know what the reality of it is.
Speaker 1: And that happens when we activate our conscious awareness, when
Speaker 1: we tune into not the stories in our mind, not
Speaker 1: to rehashing things that happened weeks ago, years ago, not
Speaker 1: to worrying about tomorrow, or most of us spend our
Speaker 1: time to be grounded and present to what is to
Speaker 1: turning our focus onto our physical body, to extending it
Speaker 1: out into the external environment, seeing for ourselves things that
Speaker 1: are present here and now. That is how we become
Speaker 1: available into what is here and now. And then, of course,
Speaker 1: if we want to add in the appreciation. People have
Speaker 1: had success with journaling, listing things that we're grateful for.
Speaker 1: For me, even just acknowledging its presence can be so
Speaker 1: incredibly healing for all of us that are coloring the
Speaker 1: present moment with our past experiences, because so many of
Speaker 1: us are filtering out the reality of what's here based
Speaker 1: again because of those past filters that we've been applying.
Speaker 1: So that means becoming active, becoming present, maybe even verbally
Speaker 1: stating for ourselves or writing in the notebook things that
Speaker 1: are present in each given moment, and that can help
Speaker 1: us activate that feeling of appreciation because appreciation can only
Speaker 1: happen if we're aware of something that is there. Well,
Speaker 1: that's interesting because normally gratitude, the way it is done
Speaker 1: is very often not a present moment thing. I'm grateful
Speaker 1: for the coffee I had this morning, I'm grateful for
Speaker 1: the herons I saw land on the lake this afternoon.
Speaker 1: Where what you're saying is coming present. So is it
Speaker 1: your belief that if we were to be able to
Speaker 1: come to the present moment without the heavy conditioning of
Speaker 1: the past, without everything else that in that contacting the
Speaker 1: present moment as it is, a feeling of gratitude would
Speaker 1: naturally emerge. I think a feeling of connection and presence
Speaker 1: with that moment emerges, the awareness of what is available,
Speaker 1: because oftentimes when we want to practice gratitude, typically it's
Speaker 1: because we're so focused on what's not present, what we
Speaker 1: don't yet have, what we want to be the case, right,
Speaker 1: and when we can become present to what is he
Speaker 1: or I think we can open up our filter and
Speaker 1: see all of the different maybe needs that we do
Speaker 1: have consistently or at least in this moment, being met,
Speaker 1: the space that we actually are, you know, choosing to
Speaker 1: inhabit in this moment. I think that we most often
Speaker 1: do you have available something right, that is actionable? Right,
Speaker 1: some need that has safety, or we even have a
Speaker 1: house a roof over our head. Right. These are small
Speaker 1: things that I think aren't small and that we so
Speaker 1: typically overlook because we've become so familiar with those being
Speaker 1: part of our present existence. Yet we diminish and instead
Speaker 1: of focusing on what we have here, we tend to
Speaker 1: highlight what isn't yet here. Yeah. I've been doing a
Speaker 1: lot of reading about the psychological research on gratitude, and
Speaker 1: it's clear that one of its really salient features is
Speaker 1: the ability to almost counteract hedonic adaptation. Right. The ad
Speaker 1: actaient mean we just take for granted what we're used to,
Speaker 1: and gratitude being away of actually not taking things for granted,
Speaker 1: of being a way of connecting the fact that, like, well,
Speaker 1: what would it be like if this thing wasn't here? Okay,
Speaker 1: Now I can get back to appreciating what I already
Speaker 1: do have, which really does seem to be one of
Speaker 1: the keys to happy life is to appreciate what we
Speaker 1: have spend more energy there than on what we don't have.
Speaker 1: When we free up the energy of focusing on what's
Speaker 1: not yet present. We're actually then saving conserving the energy
Speaker 1: to create change in that direction. Should we choose so
Speaker 1: many of us expend so much energy. We were recording
Speaker 1: the previous podcast, we were talking a little bit about
Speaker 1: autopilot and how that actually conserves caloric energy for our brain.
Speaker 1: How we do prefer to just cruise into that familiar
Speaker 1: accepting things just as they are without thinking about them,
Speaker 1: because physiologically, actually there's a benefit of doing that in
Speaker 1: terms of the cleric intake, with my ain already needing
Speaker 1: the most of it. So again, it allows us to
Speaker 1: be present to see the things that we've become unconscious too.
Speaker 1: As a way too oftentimes conserve energy, and when we
Speaker 1: have that then energy back not spinning around wishing hoping.
Speaker 1: Now we can use that energy to being grounded in
Speaker 1: the present and to actually creating the steps in that direction.
Speaker 1: So what do you do in your own life? Do
Speaker 1: you consciously practice gratitude in any sort of consistent way
Speaker 1: or is it just become part of your orientation for you?
Speaker 1: How does it operationalize? So two ways. I think my
Speaker 1: most consistent practice of gratitude is staying really grounded and
Speaker 1: connect it to the present moment, coming to the awareness
Speaker 1: of how disconnected I had spent the large majority of
Speaker 1: my life. That is a daily habit and practice, always
Speaker 1: checking into where's my attention, always pulling it back, always
Speaker 1: being observant of what is here, what is now? I
Speaker 1: think that's kind of the most number one foundational aspect
Speaker 1: of attitude that I integrate into my day to day.
Speaker 1: And then there's a more kind of acute moment by moment,
Speaker 1: and I give myself the opportunity for me, it's a
Speaker 1: shift in thinking or language around. So typically when I
Speaker 1: don't want to do something, you know, I have an event,
Speaker 1: an opportunity, something coming up, a project, Right, I have
Speaker 1: to if you will, I tend to, you know, roll
Speaker 1: my eyes, which I didn't have to focus all of
Speaker 1: my internal monologueing on how much I shouldn't maybe have
Speaker 1: to do right this thing. We talked about taxes when
Speaker 1: we recorded a podcast, Right, I don't want to do
Speaker 1: this thing. Language right now, I'm shifting. The shift I
Speaker 1: offer myself is I'm grateful for the opportunity to do
Speaker 1: my taxes so I can have a thriving business. I'm
Speaker 1: grateful for the opportunity to have this conversation right connected
Speaker 1: to what my intention is, so that the message gets
Speaker 1: out there. I'm grateful for whatever event I don't want
Speaker 1: to do, because this might take me one step closer
Speaker 1: to this goal I have for my future. I'm grateful
Speaker 1: for the opportunity. I sometimes even just use that, even
Speaker 1: not being specific on what it is. Shifting again that
Speaker 1: internal monologue because against so many of us don't live
Speaker 1: in the present moment and can't feel grateful for what's available,
Speaker 1: because we're focusing on how much we wish it wasn't
Speaker 1: the case right here, right now, when we can sit
Speaker 1: in radical acceptance of what is here now, when we
Speaker 1: can maybe change the way we're filtering, giving ourselves the
Speaker 1: opportunity to possibly springboard us into a future that's different. Wonderful. Well,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for taking a couple of minutes
Speaker 1: to talk with us about gratitude. I am grateful that
Speaker 1: you did. I'm grateful for the opportunity. Up next is journalist, lecturer,
Speaker 1: and author of four New York Times bestsellers. A. J. Jacobs.
Speaker 1: Why don't you just take the Cans story kind of
Speaker 1: from the top. Sure, I know this is themed to Thanksgiving,
Speaker 1: and I wrote an article a couple of years ago
Speaker 1: about how I'm trying to make Thanksgiving a little more
Speaker 1: creative and stretch our gratitude muscles on. And one thing
Speaker 1: I noticed was that the can. You know, we have
Speaker 1: canned pumpkin pie filling. We should make it ourselves, but
Speaker 1: we don't. And I noticed that the cans have little
Speaker 1: ridges on the side, and I looked it up and
Speaker 1: those ridges are not there by accident. Someone came up
Speaker 1: with that idea because it makes the cans harder to dent.
Speaker 1: So thank you to the engineer who came up with
Speaker 1: the idea to have little ridges on the side of cans.
Speaker 1: Something totally never thought about, something I completely took for granted,
Speaker 1: something you'd never notice unless you thought about it. That
Speaker 1: is a great one. The numbers of those things are
Speaker 1: really endless, the things to be grateful for. And I've
Speaker 1: looked into gratitude a little bit more preparing for this
Speaker 1: episode and some different things. One of the things that
Speaker 1: gratitude researchers think gratitude can be really helpful for is
Speaker 1: to forestall hedonic adaptation to some degree, right, which is
Speaker 1: basically the fact that we do take everything for granted.
Speaker 1: So your health you could wait till it's on, and
Speaker 1: then you will wish you had it again. Right, But
Speaker 1: by practicing gratitude is a way of actually sort of
Speaker 1: not taking things for granted. And the number of things
Speaker 1: that at least in my life I take for granted
Speaker 1: is stunning. Right, Yes, that is a real danger, the
Speaker 1: hedonic treadmill. And you think, oh, I'll be happy when
Speaker 1: I get X, you get X. Ten minutes later you'lvia, Well,
Speaker 1: I'll really be happy when I get why, you get why,
Speaker 1: and then it goes on and on. And the way
Speaker 1: I've found to battle it is through gratitude and through listing,
Speaker 1: almost cataloging all of the things that I do have.
Speaker 1: So again, it's an active discipline, the classic writing five
Speaker 1: things down. I do it with my mom. We trade
Speaker 1: emails every morning of something that we're grateful for. So yeah,
Speaker 1: that is for me, the only way to battle that
Speaker 1: evil hedonic adaptation. Yeah, I loved that idea that you
Speaker 1: and your mom exchange a thing every day that you're
Speaker 1: grateful for. That's such a lovely practice. And how much
Speaker 1: better to be able to share gratitude with someone than
Speaker 1: just do it on our own. And I will tell
Speaker 1: you It's challenging because I have a rule with myself.
Speaker 1: I don't want to repeat, So I don't want to
Speaker 1: say I'm grateful for my dog, even though I love
Speaker 1: my dog. So I have to come up with a
Speaker 1: new one every day, and it gets harder and harder,
Speaker 1: but it's good. It is a good exercise. Are you
Speaker 1: able to repeat with variation? Because one of the other
Speaker 1: things that I've seen, as i've again have looked at gratitude,
Speaker 1: is that specificity can be really helpful. So it's one
Speaker 1: thing to say I'm grateful for my dog. It's another
Speaker 1: thing to say I'm grateful for when my dog does
Speaker 1: that really cute thing where she buries her head in
Speaker 1: the pillow and shakes her butt around or whatever like.
Speaker 1: So are you allowed to repeat as long as you're
Speaker 1: reflecting on a different aspect or once you've thanked your wife,
Speaker 1: it's over, no what you said, I love The more
Speaker 1: specific the better. And yes, I can be thankful for
Speaker 1: different parts, well not different parts of my different that
Speaker 1: sounded weird, but different different aspects of my dog, the
Speaker 1: cuddling or the playfulness and what you said. And I
Speaker 1: have a section in my book about writing thank you notes,
Speaker 1: and I found, at least for me, the most effective
Speaker 1: where really getting specific. I remember I wrote thank you
Speaker 1: note to the people who are inspectors on the farms
Speaker 1: and they have to spend all their time and outdoors,
Speaker 1: and I could have just said thank you for being
Speaker 1: out there and inspecting the coffee farms, but I tried
Speaker 1: to picture what their life was like. You know, I
Speaker 1: thank you for putting up with the mosquitoes that I'm
Speaker 1: sure you have to put up, thank you for baking
Speaker 1: in the hot sun. And the more specific I think
Speaker 1: is better for both parties because you get a little
Speaker 1: more empathy and then they're like, well you put some
Speaker 1: thought into it. Well. I think that is a great
Speaker 1: place to wrap up. Thank you so much for coming on.
Speaker 1: Like I said, I really did enjoy the book. You're
Speaker 1: an outstanding writer, and thank you it's been fun. Well.
Speaker 1: Thank you Eric, and thank you to your producer of course,
Speaker 1: and thank you to the people who made your microphone, etcetera, etcetera,
Speaker 1: and and Riverside dot FM. Yeah, this could go on
Speaker 1: a long time. Up next is author, speaker and founder
Speaker 1: of the Wayfinder Life Coach training program Martha Beck. Hi, Martha,
Speaker 1: Welcome to our special Gratitude episode. Thank you so much, Eric.
Speaker 1: I am grateful to be here. I am grateful that
Speaker 1: you agreed to be here. Um, you know, maybe let's
Speaker 1: just start off by getting right into it. What does
Speaker 1: what does gratitude mean to you? And why is it
Speaker 1: important to you? You know, I honestly came to it
Speaker 1: first through my brain. I was trained in social science
Speaker 1: and I was also pretty depressed in my early life,
Speaker 1: so I read that gratitude was really good for you.
Speaker 1: It wasn't that I was never grateful for anything, but
Speaker 1: when I began reading the positive psychology on gratitude, it
Speaker 1: had such a massive impact on people's health, their relationships,
Speaker 1: everything like that, and I thought, I've got to find
Speaker 1: a way to get into this. And I tried to
Speaker 1: fake it and it didn't work. And I've coached people
Speaker 1: who have tried to fake it, and I will tell
Speaker 1: you this, if you're afraid or if you're depressed, the
Speaker 1: first thing you have to do is express love to yourself,
Speaker 1: to the part of you that is depressed or anxious,
Speaker 1: and just say it like you'll be okay, I'm right
Speaker 1: here with you. You can feel whatever you're feeling, and
Speaker 1: immediately those parts will flood you with gratitude for having
Speaker 1: been noticed, for having been loved. So for me, gratitude
Speaker 1: starts with self compassion, and if you're having trouble or
Speaker 1: if you're forcing it, it doesn't work. But if you
Speaker 1: love the parts of you that aren't feeling grateful, they
Speaker 1: are so grateful to be loved, then it will fill
Speaker 1: you up. Yeah, you wrote somewhere that it's not just
Speaker 1: the ciation that we feel that makes gratitude good, but
Speaker 1: it's the release of all other thoughts and feelings, right,
Speaker 1: So it's in essence, when we move into a grateful feeling,
Speaker 1: by the nature of the thing itself, other things have
Speaker 1: to fall away. So it strikes me that that is
Speaker 1: one of the real problems with gratitude practice. At least
Speaker 1: for me, it does get dry sometimes where I'm like
Speaker 1: sort of going through the motions. Now, I still think
Speaker 1: it's valuable for me to go through the motions because
Speaker 1: there is at least an orientation that makes me start
Speaker 1: looking for gratitude more. It's kind of like, you know,
Speaker 1: sometimes I don't want to exercise, but I do, but
Speaker 1: at the same time, just rotally writing down three things
Speaker 1: you're grateful for day after day after day with no
Speaker 1: feeling isn't really going to give us what we want.
Speaker 1: And I think for a lot of people that's why
Speaker 1: the practice ends, because it's doing it that way isn't
Speaker 1: really giving us the enormous benefits that we can get
Speaker 1: from gratitude. Right. And I tried it the same way
Speaker 1: you're describing, just writing it down by rote and not
Speaker 1: getting there with the genuine sensation of it. So along
Speaker 1: with loving the parts of you that aren't rateful, that
Speaker 1: the thing that works best for me if I want
Speaker 1: to get into that state is to move it into
Speaker 1: my sensory mind. So do something that gratifies your senses.
Speaker 1: And I would tell you my favorite thing. It's embarrassing,
Speaker 1: but I'll tell you I like to get in bed.
Speaker 1: King size. Bed doesn't have to be king sized, but
Speaker 1: I'm really grateful that it is because when no one's there,
Speaker 1: I get in my pajamas, I get in bed, and
Speaker 1: I just roll and roll and roll. I just roll around.
Speaker 1: And it's like, if your whole body is immersed in
Speaker 1: this procedure, you don't stay in the tension that you're
Speaker 1: in most of the time. So anything you love with
Speaker 1: your senses at it all together. Put on something fuzzy,
Speaker 1: you get something that's tasty, and treat yourself wealth physically,
Speaker 1: and again this simple animal body will flood you with gratitude. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's a lot of people who study attitude
Speaker 1: and talk about gratitude. They really emphasize savoring things that
Speaker 1: we have to stay a little bit longer with the
Speaker 1: experience that's enjoyable, go deeper into it with all of
Speaker 1: our senses as much as we can. Not only does
Speaker 1: it make it better then, but it's actually going to
Speaker 1: make it better when we look back on it and
Speaker 1: reflect on it as a grateful moment later. It's going
Speaker 1: into it as much as we can. That's really powerful. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's interesting because as I was sort of getting add
Speaker 1: it to come on, I thought, you know, all my
Speaker 1: gratitude practices are very simple and very physical. And I
Speaker 1: remember being in Africa on safari and being very close
Speaker 1: to these wild animals, which I love, and being so
Speaker 1: excited and trying to grasp the experience right Like, instead
Speaker 1: of being grateful, I was actually anxious that it was
Speaker 1: about to end. When I take other people, they get
Speaker 1: the same way, Oh it's going to end. And the
Speaker 1: way I tell people to come down from that is
Speaker 1: to start doing really really long exhales, because that's something
Speaker 1: a fleeing animal never does, and so it brings the
Speaker 1: brain down, It takes it out of fight or flight,
Speaker 1: which is that grasping feeling. And I just tell them
Speaker 1: just breathe and breathe and breathe. And when I breathe consciously,
Speaker 1: it is like that experience with that animal lives inside
Speaker 1: me all the time, and it's the same thing with
Speaker 1: a child or with a wonderful experience of any kind.
Speaker 1: Breathe into it, breathe it in, and then breathe all
Speaker 1: the way out. I think it actually does something in
Speaker 1: the brain where it codes it in there more deeply.
Speaker 1: That's really interesting. Yeah, I have really had to work
Speaker 1: with myself over the years. You know, two days into
Speaker 1: a vacation, I start counting how many days I have
Speaker 1: left and dreading it, you know, and I've really had
Speaker 1: to learn to be like, all right, let's not ruin
Speaker 1: this whole vacation by worrying that it's going to end.
Speaker 1: In those circumstances, it really is good to say, you know,
Speaker 1: what is here that I can taste, touch, here, smell,
Speaker 1: feel with my skin and then just really really focus
Speaker 1: on that. So yeah, anything that takes you to the
Speaker 1: right side of your brain, which is breathing, sensory experience, comfort, love,
Speaker 1: all of those things will allow gratitude to emerge naturally
Speaker 1: and stay longer. Another practice that you write about is
Speaker 1: something you were trying out for a while called the
Speaker 1: three to one gratitude practice. Can you share a little
Speaker 1: bit about that. I think I'm so grateful that you
Speaker 1: read that because I probably wrote it during an all
Speaker 1: night or that I've forgotten about. But what I what
Speaker 1: I would guess I said is that every time I
Speaker 1: haven't experienced that is unpleasant, and I'm thinking, why did
Speaker 1: I switch? And think of three things that have happened
Speaker 1: that are good, sometimes connected to the same event, sometimes
Speaker 1: they just happened unrelated to that in the same day.
Speaker 1: But it takes those three things. Because we have a
Speaker 1: negativity by us in our brains that is evolved there,
Speaker 1: we actually have to push a little harder to get
Speaker 1: into the positive side of our emotions than into the negative.
Speaker 1: We slide into the negative. We sort of have to
Speaker 1: bring ourselves back to the positive. So that's why I
Speaker 1: do three appreciation and gratitude moments for every moment that
Speaker 1: I'm being obnoxious and ungrateful. I think that's a great practice.
Speaker 1: That makes me think of the researcher on couples, John Gottman,
Speaker 1: who has done so much research and he came up
Speaker 1: with a ratio of positive to negative, and based on
Speaker 1: his research, this is the ratio he came up with. Again,
Speaker 1: who cares if it's three to one, five to one,
Speaker 1: four to one, right, But for every negative interaction that
Speaker 1: occurs in a relationship, you need five positive ones for
Speaker 1: that relationship to really thrive. And most people in their
Speaker 1: relationships and relationships I've been in before before I was
Speaker 1: with Jenny, were almost the exact opposite, right, he was
Speaker 1: really almost five negative things to one, And it's no
Speaker 1: wonder that those relationships were disastrous, or maybe they were
Speaker 1: disastrous already and you had the less to be grateful for.
Speaker 1: Who can tell? Who can tell? Yeah? Absolutely, That's so
Speaker 1: interesting because I've noticed in in our amily, maybe because
Speaker 1: of my son who has Down syndrome, there is more
Speaker 1: thank you being said in our house than I ever
Speaker 1: remember in any other house that I've been in, Like
Speaker 1: thank you for picking up my fork off the floor
Speaker 1: thank you for oh my gosh, you were so amazing,
Speaker 1: Like everything gets thanked out loud, and I think it
Speaker 1: got even more during the pandemic. There's such an intense
Speaker 1: circle of thank you in our little hideaway from the
Speaker 1: pandemic that it kind of almost created this vortex of gratitude.
Speaker 1: And I don't know, I actually felt strange feeling so
Speaker 1: grateful at a time when so many people were having
Speaker 1: a rough time, and then I would just be so
Speaker 1: much more grateful that that was happening. Yeah, that's a
Speaker 1: rabbit hole we do not have time to go down,
Speaker 1: but boy is it an important one. US two here
Speaker 1: with Jinny and I. It's just a very conscious, you know,
Speaker 1: thanking for kind of all sorts of things, just being
Speaker 1: appreciative of what the other person brings to the relationship,
Speaker 1: what the other person does around the house. When I
Speaker 1: taught at Omega last weekend, it won't be last week
Speaker 1: And for listeners, one of the new spiritual habits we
Speaker 1: unveiled was gratitude. And I read a study that said
Speaker 1: division of labor among couples is obviously important, right who
Speaker 1: does what? But there also seems to be a lot
Speaker 1: of research that shows. In addition, it's really important that
Speaker 1: you are appreciating what the other person is doing, you're
Speaker 1: actually thanking them for that. And there's a lot of
Speaker 1: other research about how gratitude in a relationship just creates
Speaker 1: this cycle that gets stronger and strungle. Right, if you
Speaker 1: feel grateful and express gratitude to the other person, well,
Speaker 1: now they feel better, so they're going to act more
Speaker 1: warmed you, or they're going to do something that's going
Speaker 1: to make you feel more grateful. And the more grateful
Speaker 1: you are, the more you want to invest in that relationship.
Speaker 1: And it's just this cycle that gets rolled. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: wrote about this um in my book about my son
Speaker 1: when he was about five. I have three kids at
Speaker 1: the time, and all of them were allowed to open
Speaker 1: one Christmas present on Christmas Eve, and my girls opened
Speaker 1: their presence and they were like, oh, that's nice. It's
Speaker 1: not quite what I wanted, but it'll do. Then Adam
Speaker 1: opened to his present and someone had given him an
Speaker 1: automatic toy with batteries, but they wrapped the batteries separately,
Speaker 1: so what he opened was a package of batteries and
Speaker 1: I thought, oh no. I was like, oh, honey, that's
Speaker 1: not the real president. He was like batteries. Oh my god, batteries.
Speaker 1: I mean, he didn't say oh my god, but he
Speaker 1: was like, oh my god, baggies, bies, batteries. And he
Speaker 1: started running around the house going, I could make it
Speaker 1: work this, and I could make it work this, and
Speaker 1: I could bring He was like insane with delight and
Speaker 1: gratitude for having these batteries, and that is why we
Speaker 1: give him stuff. It really showed me how much that genuine,
Speaker 1: thrilled expression of gratitude makes you just want to throw
Speaker 1: more stuff at the person. It's powerful, it really is.
Speaker 1: I think, you know, so much of what limits gratitude
Speaker 1: and some of us is expectation or entitlement. Wow. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we think that what we're getting is what we deserve
Speaker 1: or what we are owed, or we know it's coming
Speaker 1: and we should get it. And I was reflected on
Speaker 1: this something recently where a really good thing happened. But
Speaker 1: it was a good thing that I knew was going
Speaker 1: to happen for a while, and when it happened, I
Speaker 1: just was strangely sort of like, so I had to
Speaker 1: cultivate really going back to where did this come from?
Speaker 1: What was life like before this? You know, it's that
Speaker 1: old it's paraphrase much better than this, But you know,
Speaker 1: be thankful because you're the person that your old self
Speaker 1: wanted to be, or you have the things that your
Speaker 1: old self was wishing for. That's really true. And I
Speaker 1: also think that we get that kind of experience when
Speaker 1: we have been building towards something that isn't a soul
Speaker 1: level desire, so society level desire. It's what we've been told.
Speaker 1: We'll make us happy, we'll achieve something, we'll have a
Speaker 1: certain financial level or whatever, and those are really important.
Speaker 1: But when we get them, and I see this with
Speaker 1: clients all the time, there's no sense of satisfaction because
Speaker 1: the only sense of satisfaction comes from the roll level,
Speaker 1: which is when you yearned for something and then it
Speaker 1: came and then it was like the relationships in my life,
Speaker 1: it is like rain on drought every day all day,
Speaker 1: year after year after year. Just like so much gratitude
Speaker 1: the other stuff that I've got because I tried really
Speaker 1: hard and they told me that going on Oprah would
Speaker 1: make me happy. I'm very very grateful to have done that,
Speaker 1: but afterwards I was like, that's not really landing. When
Speaker 1: Oprah read one of my books, and really really got it.
Speaker 1: It landed like I didn't want the bells and whistles.
Speaker 1: What I wanted was the connection of souls. So I
Speaker 1: would tell people, give yourself a break if something doesn't
Speaker 1: explode your mind with gratitude, but then look at what
Speaker 1: your soul has asked for and what it's created, and
Speaker 1: look back on the things you yearned for. And even
Speaker 1: if it's just like I was really cold and now
Speaker 1: I have a warm bed, go back to the times
Speaker 1: when your soul is yearning and then just revel. I
Speaker 1: call it time travel, go back to the one who
Speaker 1: was yearning for this thing and just roll roll, roll
Speaker 1: around a warm bed and just say, oh, thank God,
Speaker 1: I'm not still stuck on that broken ski lift or
Speaker 1: whatever it was. And that kind of time travel and
Speaker 1: the yearning of the soul, those are two things that
Speaker 1: really make my gratitude practice sort of sharper Well. I
Speaker 1: think that's a beautiful place to wrap up, because we
Speaker 1: are back to rolling around in a big bed where
Speaker 1: we started kind of. So, Eric, I'm going to take
Speaker 1: that recording of you saying that, and I'm going to
Speaker 1: play it for everyone and they can just make their
Speaker 1: own conclusions. Were rolling around in a big bed where
Speaker 1: we started. Me and Eric Bimmer. There's some gratitude coming
Speaker 1: at you. Thank you, Martha, Thank you so much. Eric
Speaker 1: number four on our Gratitude episode is speaker and author
Speaker 1: of many books such as Quiet Power and Bitter Sweet.
Speaker 1: Susan Caine. Hi, Susan, it's so nice to talk with
Speaker 1: you again. Hey, Eric, So good to be back here
Speaker 1: with you. I've been enjoying our correspondence in between interviews
Speaker 1: about Leonard Cone. That's always nice to get your emails. Yes,
Speaker 1: me too, And I'm so happy to talk to you
Speaker 1: again so soon after we did the first time. You know,
Speaker 1: your episode was definitely one of my favorites over the
Speaker 1: last couple of years, So if listeners you haven't heard it,
Speaker 1: I highly recommend it, as well as her book Bitter Sweet.
Speaker 1: But we're here to talk about gratitude, so I guess
Speaker 1: let's just start off when I sort of bring up
Speaker 1: the topic of gratitude, what comes to mind for you?
Speaker 1: Kind of right off the bat. You know, what comes
Speaker 1: to mind is my grandmother. When I was a little kid,
Speaker 1: she really loved going to the botanical gardens, like she
Speaker 1: had spent most of her life living in cinder block
Speaker 1: housing where there weren't many flowers around, and she loved
Speaker 1: flowers and trees, and she would go I think it
Speaker 1: was the Brooklyn Botanical Garden. I'm not sure which one
Speaker 1: it was, but you know, I got carded along when
Speaker 1: I was a kid, and I just remember her saying,
Speaker 1: it's so beautiful, it's so beautiful. And the time I
Speaker 1: was a little kid and I was like, oh, it's
Speaker 1: just some flowers, kind of boring, you know, they're just
Speaker 1: sitting here. But I think of her all the time
Speaker 1: now because I kind of feel the same way, like
Speaker 1: I'm just constantly exclaiming to my kids over how beautiful
Speaker 1: this thing or that thing is. I find every time
Speaker 1: you stopped to exclaim over it or just silently savor
Speaker 1: it and appreciate it, it lifts you up. And it's
Speaker 1: also just true. It's also just like stating a truth
Speaker 1: of like, oh my gosh, here's a daily miracle. There's
Speaker 1: another daily miracle. They're all over the place. You mentioned
Speaker 1: the word savoring, which is definitely a key part of gratitude.
Speaker 1: As I've done research on gratitude, I created a new
Speaker 1: program for our Omega Workshop around gratitude and it's certainly
Speaker 1: that idea of really being able to notice what's around
Speaker 1: you and try and savor it and appreciate it is
Speaker 1: really good for gratitude, not just in that moment, but
Speaker 1: also for our ability to look back on things and
Speaker 1: be grateful because we've made them more real and present,
Speaker 1: and thus our recollection of them later is also more
Speaker 1: real and present. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's right. And
Speaker 1: one of the insights that I really came to when
Speaker 1: I was researching the whole Bitter Sweet book is about
Speaker 1: the extent to which we, as modern people who are
Speaker 1: scientifically inclined, tend to kind of like break down the
Speaker 1: things around us by understanding what their causes are, or
Speaker 1: you know that they're composed of atoms and molecules and
Speaker 1: like that, which is wondrous and fascinating in and of itself.
Speaker 1: But the problem that we have is I don't think
Speaker 1: we're aware in the way people hundreds of years ago
Speaker 1: were of just how constantly we're surrounded by the miraculous.
Speaker 1: And I don't mean the miraculous in a supernatural kind
Speaker 1: of way, I just mean in the like, can you
Speaker 1: freaking believe that this thing exists? Exactly one of the
Speaker 1: guys who wrote a lot about and studied a lot
Speaker 1: about gratitude is named Robert Emmons, and he has a quote.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to get it exact, but it's something
Speaker 1: along the lines. Seen with grateful eyes requires that we
Speaker 1: see the web of interconnection in which we alternate between
Speaker 1: being givers and receivers. When I think about the miraculous,
Speaker 1: I think about that web of interconnection, how everything is
Speaker 1: connected to and caused by something else, and in a
Speaker 1: very literal sense, the entire universe had to happen in
Speaker 1: the way it happened to get me to this beautiful
Speaker 1: moment right here. That is such a deep mystery and
Speaker 1: such a deep beauty. Yeah, it really is, It really is.
Speaker 1: And then at the same time, whenever I hear about
Speaker 1: or talk about the idea of gratitude, I always feel
Speaker 1: like there's an untruthfulness to the discussion unless we also
Speaker 1: make space for the fact that there are aspects of
Speaker 1: existence for which we really do have no reason to
Speaker 1: be grateful, you know, just like horrors and malevolence and
Speaker 1: all kinds of things that are also part of existence,
Speaker 1: and that I don't know, I mean, maybe somebody else
Speaker 1: would say we should feel grateful for all of it.
Speaker 1: I don't feel that way. I don't think it's true.
Speaker 1: I don't think we can, or really even should feel
Speaker 1: grateful for those things and more. Just think what's really
Speaker 1: helpful is to understand that existence encompasses, you know, the
Speaker 1: beautiful miracles and then the horrors and the sufferings, and
Speaker 1: that's how it is. Take it all in, accept it,
Speaker 1: and turn in the direction of the beauty, and feel
Speaker 1: grateful for that. I find that a much more manageable
Speaker 1: way of living than the direction I feel were often
Speaker 1: told to go in, which is just like you know,
Speaker 1: only feel gratitude and don't notice the rest of it.
Speaker 1: I couldn't agree more. I mean, I think gratitude should
Speaker 1: not be a way of escaping the realities of our lives,
Speaker 1: or the difficulties in our lives, or the things that
Speaker 1: need to change. Like if you're in an abusive relationship,
Speaker 1: you don't want to be grateful find the good things
Speaker 1: about your abuser and be grateful for them. You want
Speaker 1: to get out. You know, a lot of things in
Speaker 1: life we can't get out of a lot of the
Speaker 1: type of horrors that you're describing. So I think we
Speaker 1: do need to take in the whole human condition. And
Speaker 1: it's interesting, however, to see certain people like Ellie viz
Speaker 1: L I think I'm saying that correctly talk about how
Speaker 1: gratitude was really an important part of him surviving. You know,
Speaker 1: he was in concentration camps. And he also writes deeply
Speaker 1: about the horror and how terrible it was, right, and
Speaker 1: so he really shows both of those things. You know,
Speaker 1: these can both be true. There are things in life
Speaker 1: we can be grateful for, and there are things in
Speaker 1: life that we can be suffering through, and both those
Speaker 1: things can be accurate at the same time or true
Speaker 1: at the same time. That I think is the key
Speaker 1: thing to understand. They can both be true at the
Speaker 1: same time, and to embrace one doesn't mean to deny
Speaker 1: the existence of the other. And I think that's something
Speaker 1: that we can really live with because it's telling the truth.
Speaker 1: There's this quote from the musician Glenn Gould that I
Speaker 1: came across the other day where he talks about I
Speaker 1: don't have the exact words in front of me, but
Speaker 1: it's something like the purpose of art is not for
Speaker 1: the momentary spurt of adrenaline that a beautiful artwork gives you.
Speaker 1: It's rather that it leads you in the direction of
Speaker 1: kind of like the slow accumulation of wonder and serenity
Speaker 1: in your life. That's beautiful. Yeah, yeah, and it's so true.
Speaker 1: That's why I think turning in the direction of a
Speaker 1: beauty for which we can be grateful, or turning in
Speaker 1: the direction of gratitude itself, is so sustaining because it
Speaker 1: has a way of fortifying you in the direction of
Speaker 1: wonder and serenity. You know, It's like the more you
Speaker 1: do it, the more you get to turn in that direction. Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 1: I mean I think you know, when we think about gratitude,
Speaker 1: we first have to sort of be paying attention to
Speaker 1: what's around us and then noticing the goodness kind of
Speaker 1: like you're saying. And then I think there's an element
Speaker 1: of recognize seen the gift of it. You know that
Speaker 1: this art, you know, let's just take a beautiful piece
Speaker 1: of music, a Leonard co and piece of music, like
Speaker 1: I received that as a gift. Totally, it is a
Speaker 1: gift to me. And so I think that's the key
Speaker 1: is recognizing these benefits. And I think one of the
Speaker 1: things I love about gratitude and I think It's both
Speaker 1: one of the biggest benefits of gratitude and one of
Speaker 1: the biggest hindrances to gratitude is our ability to take
Speaker 1: literally everything for granted. I think that blocks is feeling grateful,
Speaker 1: But conversely, if we try and look through grateful eyes,
Speaker 1: it's a way of starting to not take the really
Speaker 1: good things in our lives quite so much for granted.
Speaker 1: Our families are health, the fact that we have drinking water.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's just so many things that are truly
Speaker 1: amazing that if I'm not cultivating the mindset, I just
Speaker 1: will take for granted and think, you know, I don't
Speaker 1: have anything good right right. And we all have that
Speaker 1: experience of like you've got a really bad cold or something.
Speaker 1: He feels so crappy, and then the first day that
Speaker 1: you feel better, you're like, oh my gosh, it's so
Speaker 1: amazing to feel healthy. I Am going to appreciate this
Speaker 1: every minute of every day for the rest of my life.
Speaker 1: And then you know, the appreciation starts to wean and
Speaker 1: you start focusing on other things insteady six minutes later,
Speaker 1: you've got a complaint. I mean, I know, it's so funny.
Speaker 1: I think about that when I'm in pain. When I'm
Speaker 1: in pain, the only thing I want is that pain
Speaker 1: to go away, and it is a deep desire, like
Speaker 1: if it's really bad, it blocks everything out. And like
Speaker 1: you said, I just think, well, if if it would
Speaker 1: just go away, I will be content. And it goes away,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, well, I have to cultivate appreciation that
Speaker 1: it's not there. Otherwise our tendency towards adaptation and our
Speaker 1: tendency to notice what's negative around us kind of overwhelmed
Speaker 1: those basic things. Yeah, And you know, you keep coming
Speaker 1: back to the idea of noticing, and I do think
Speaker 1: that's one of the most important insights. Our brains only
Speaker 1: have the ability to pay attention to so many things
Speaker 1: at once, and or maybe even only one thing at
Speaker 1: a time, and we have some ability to direct our
Speaker 1: attention in the direction of our choosing. And you can
Speaker 1: choose to direct your attention towards the things that are
Speaker 1: a bummer, or you can choose to direct it towards
Speaker 1: the things for which you're grateful. And I think this
Speaker 1: is especially true in our relationships with other people, you know,
Speaker 1: because we're all so incredibly flawed that if we want to,
Speaker 1: we could easily find the flaws in everyone we encounter
Speaker 1: and dwell on those, or you can find the miracles
Speaker 1: in each other's personalities or just the things we enjoy
Speaker 1: and focus on those. And that's a choice we can
Speaker 1: make at every moment. Absolutely, And I don't know who
Speaker 1: said this quote. I get leary anymore of attributing anything
Speaker 1: to anyone because it's just every time I turn around,
Speaker 1: it's like, Nope, he never said that, she never said that.
Speaker 1: But the idea is it's good to look for the
Speaker 1: best in people, and often they will act that way
Speaker 1: because of it. And m gratitude has been researched kind
Speaker 1: of out the wazoo, and there's research about a virtuous
Speaker 1: cycle that starts in couples when they start to appreciate
Speaker 1: gratitude for each other because as one person does that,
Speaker 1: you know the other person feels appreciated then wants to
Speaker 1: invest in the relationship, and then as you invest in
Speaker 1: the relationship, the relationship becomes something that's more precious to
Speaker 1: have because it's better, and the cycle kind of keeps rolling.
Speaker 1: So I think there's so many ways that it can
Speaker 1: be a really helpful tool in our lives. And kind
Speaker 1: of back to your point, it isn't at the exclusion
Speaker 1: of noticing what's difficult or hard or painful. I think
Speaker 1: of it more as sort of a day to day
Speaker 1: tool in that it's like you said, where's the orientation
Speaker 1: of my mind going? And I know where mind goes
Speaker 1: when I don't consciously redirected. It does not go to
Speaker 1: beauty and gratitude and appreciation. That's not where it naturally goes.
Speaker 1: And I think most people are that way, and some
Speaker 1: of it's probably more than others. It goes to what's
Speaker 1: not here, what's missing. I think that's right, and I
Speaker 1: think it's also useful for people to figure out what
Speaker 1: are the aspects of their lives that really get them
Speaker 1: to marveling at how amazing things can be. And I'll
Speaker 1: just give you an example of what I mean. I
Speaker 1: took this v I a character strength test some years ago.
Speaker 1: It helps you understand what the strengths are in your
Speaker 1: own character, and I think they're like twenty four different
Speaker 1: ones and it just sort of ranks them. And my
Speaker 1: number one strength was one I hadn't even considered before,
Speaker 1: and it was appreciation of beauty and excellence. And I
Speaker 1: was like, oh gosh, that's that's really interesting because I
Speaker 1: do you know, like I'll see a perfect figure skating
Speaker 1: routine or something, or just an article that's amazingly written
Speaker 1: and it fills me with a sense of awe and excitement,
Speaker 1: and so I just know that might seem sort of
Speaker 1: quirky to somebody else, but I know for me like
Speaker 1: that beholding something excellent is incredibly elevating. So the question
Speaker 1: is what is it for you? And you and you
Speaker 1: like we all have different aspects that elevate us and
Speaker 1: take in the time to figure out what it is
Speaker 1: for you. I think is one of the best gateways
Speaker 1: to gratitude that we have. I couldn't agree more. I
Speaker 1: think it is what is it for me? Because it
Speaker 1: is different for everybody, because some people when they see
Speaker 1: excellence and beauty, it causes almost an envy, not appreciation
Speaker 1: of it. For people that have that orientation, that may
Speaker 1: not be the right direction. A similar idea that's been
Speaker 1: on my mind lately as I tried surfing for the
Speaker 1: first time in Europe this summer and I loved it,
Speaker 1: and then I've gone to l A and done it again.
Speaker 1: And it's a stupid hobby for an Ohio and however,
Speaker 1: not at traveling Ohioan That's exactly right. However, it is
Speaker 1: the first thing in years that makes me fist pumping,
Speaker 1: lee joyous. I don't experience that level of pure joy
Speaker 1: anywhere else. It's not to say that I don't have
Speaker 1: subtle flavors of it, but that level of it. And
Speaker 1: so I've just been like, you know what, I'm going
Speaker 1: to make a choice to cultivate that because that feels important.
Speaker 1: It feels like turning towards beauty and all and all
Speaker 1: that there's something about the combined experience of it all
Speaker 1: that is really special. And I think that kind of
Speaker 1: points to what you were just saying about finding your thing. Yeah. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: and I totally get that. By the way, I feel
Speaker 1: that exact thing when I play tennis, which is a
Speaker 1: lot more convenient for me because I can just go
Speaker 1: to the local tennis court. But I know exactly what
Speaker 1: you're talking about, and I would fly across the country
Speaker 1: to to feel that way. Yeah. Well, tennis has been
Speaker 1: on my list of things to take up and it
Speaker 1: just hasn't happened yet. Jinny and I we're gonna take
Speaker 1: it up as a couple. And things with balls and
Speaker 1: flying at her just don't go well. I don't think
Speaker 1: should mind mind me sharing that our first tennis lesson
Speaker 1: together ended in tears, so it wasn't the right couple's activity. However,
Speaker 1: I'm going to pursue it at some point. I think
Speaker 1: it's a good idea and as a couple, maybe you
Speaker 1: should try pickle ball. I just tried playing it with
Speaker 1: my son last week and it was amazing. Elicited the
Speaker 1: same exact joy. But it's like a whiffle ball, so
Speaker 1: Jenny might be happy with that. Yeah, pickle ball is
Speaker 1: definitely on the list of things to do. Also well,
Speaker 1: Susanen with one question here, which is is there anything
Speaker 1: you do besides the conscious turning of beauty to practice
Speaker 1: gratitude in your life or is that really your core practice? Gosh,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I feel like it's something I do
Speaker 1: a lot as a parent, partly because my kids knock
Speaker 1: on Wood so far have had really good lives and
Speaker 1: I want them to be aware of how fortunate they are.
Speaker 1: But I think it's just something that happens naturally as
Speaker 1: a parent. We live on a quiet street and we
Speaker 1: often go out onto the street to play catch, you know,
Speaker 1: and I'll be like, oh my gosh, we're so lucky
Speaker 1: that we live on this quiet street where we can
Speaker 1: do this and don't have to worry about cars. So
Speaker 1: I'm constantly pointing those kinds of things out to them,
Speaker 1: and hopefully they don't find it annoying. They don't seem to.
Speaker 1: I do think there's something about being a parent that
Speaker 1: can orient us in that direction of noticing these things.
Speaker 1: I love that. I think that's a really great practice,
Speaker 1: like if we are orienting our children in that direction
Speaker 1: and at the same time choosing to orient ourselves in
Speaker 1: that direction exactly. Yeah, Well, thank you so much for
Speaker 1: coming on. It is always such a pleasure to talk
Speaker 1: with you, and I appreciate you coming on and talking
Speaker 1: about gratitude today. You are so welcome. Love talking to you,
Speaker 1: and yeah, thank you for reaching out on this and
Speaker 1: closing out this episode is author, meditation, teach and podcast
Speaker 1: host at The Astral Hustle Corey Allen. Hey, Corey, it's
Speaker 1: good to talk to you again. Good to talk to
Speaker 1: you again. As always, this has been a bounty of
Speaker 1: riches as far as talking to you. I feel like
Speaker 1: I've done it more over the last several months and
Speaker 1: it took us several years to get in, so this
Speaker 1: has been great. Glad to be connected again. Man. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So we are talking about gratitude, and I guess I'll
Speaker 1: just start off broadly and ask you, you know, when
Speaker 1: I bring up the topic of gratitude, what what comes
Speaker 1: to mind for you? A couple of different things. I think.
Speaker 1: The first thing is I think about the general things
Speaker 1: that people associate with gratitude. What is in my life
Speaker 1: that makes me feel anchored and safe and fulfilled. Those
Speaker 1: things are relationships, my career, the things I'm able to
Speaker 1: do and share with people, and just the general systems
Speaker 1: that I have in my life that are really meaningful
Speaker 1: to me. And then of course there's just the abundance
Speaker 1: of modern living that I'm really grateful for. As far
Speaker 1: as you know, I live in Austin, Texas, and so
Speaker 1: it's so easy to get numb to like the ways
Speaker 1: that we live, of like what's available to us as
Speaker 1: far as you know, things like clean drinking waters, even
Speaker 1: stuff like that, where it's like sometimes I just stop
Speaker 1: and remember that it's easy just to forget that that's
Speaker 1: a real luxury, Like it's just so plentiful where we
Speaker 1: are kind of blows my mind, you know, think about
Speaker 1: the wow. You know, but you know all that stuff
Speaker 1: people are pretty used to and they're familiar with those
Speaker 1: ideas are ingratitude. But to go a little bit deeper,
Speaker 1: I'll say this, and I'm curious how you think about this.
Speaker 1: How do people apply gratitude? Right? Like, how do people
Speaker 1: take the idea, whether it be sort of along the
Speaker 1: lines of what I just described, or if it's kind
Speaker 1: of this mem ification idea of gratitude, and how do
Speaker 1: you actually apply that to life to where it has real,
Speaker 1: concert distant and daily resonance. Because most people think about
Speaker 1: gratitude I ascertain from observing the Internet is people look
Speaker 1: at gratitude with the way it's talked about as some
Speaker 1: type of solution. So it's like, oh, I'm feeling down today,
Speaker 1: Well remember all of the good things in your life,
Speaker 1: you know, Or I'm like in this crazy challenge right
Speaker 1: now and things feel really difficult. It's like, okay, but
Speaker 1: now tap back into gratitude and remember all the things
Speaker 1: you have going for you, everything that you've got them
Speaker 1: to this point. And so what's trying to happen there
Speaker 1: is that they're using gratitude in a time where they're
Speaker 1: struggling to apply it to the challenge the negative emotions,
Speaker 1: to offset the feeling of negativity, to try and bring
Speaker 1: themselves back into balance. Right now, there's nothing wrong with that, certainly,
Speaker 1: but are we short changing the deeper level of our
Speaker 1: gratitude by using it in that way? So we only
Speaker 1: look at gratitude is an active way to minimize negativity.
Speaker 1: Are we missing the deeper gratitude available to us in
Speaker 1: daily lives that exists on its own terms, not in
Speaker 1: relativity to challenges or negativity, but for its own sake.
Speaker 1: So that's something I think about, and I have various
Speaker 1: ways of working with that, But I'm curious what you
Speaker 1: think about that and how you might approach that same idea.
Speaker 1: I first have to ask, are you grateful for your voice?
Speaker 1: Because as a podcaster, usually in every conversation like I'm
Speaker 1: doing all right over here, but every time I get
Speaker 1: on with you, I'm like, that guy has got a
Speaker 1: great podcasting voice. I hope you're grateful for it. I am,
Speaker 1: thank you. And I will say is that with the
Speaker 1: great power comes great responsibility, and so I try and
Speaker 1: use it wisely. But also it is kind of funny
Speaker 1: is that it's like I suppose if someone is like
Speaker 1: seven ft tall, every person that they meet is like, wow,
Speaker 1: you're really tall, and they're like I know that, thank
Speaker 1: thank you for. And it's kind of a funny thing
Speaker 1: is that every conversation I have on the phone, on
Speaker 1: you know, on podcasts, random conversations, it's only the first
Speaker 1: thing that comes up. So it is kind of one
Speaker 1: of those funny things for a while I'm grateful for
Speaker 1: it's also like kind of always being brought to me,
Speaker 1: which is funny on its own. Yeah. Actually, what you
Speaker 1: just ended there with I think is interesting because you know,
Speaker 1: when I think about gratitude, I've been thinking a lot
Speaker 1: about hadonic adaptation and the idea that gratitude is both
Speaker 1: the greatest antidote for that, but that hadonic adaptation is
Speaker 1: also the greatest block to gratitude, you know. So one
Speaker 1: way of looking at that is if we look at
Speaker 1: through the paradigm you just said, which is I use
Speaker 1: gratitude to counteract certain negative things. Right, We could use
Speaker 1: gratitude as a way of counteracting the fact that we
Speaker 1: just get used to all the good stuff in our lives.
Speaker 1: We just do our ability to adapt is a good
Speaker 1: and bad thing. Right When terrible things happen to us,
Speaker 1: our ability to adapt to them is a good thing. However,
Speaker 1: it also means we take literally everything for granted. But
Speaker 1: it's also interesting to think about if I were to
Speaker 1: work with the donic adaptation more skillfully, might that unlock
Speaker 1: gratitude for its own sake, to just have the depth
Speaker 1: of gratitude as an orientation to life versus a tool
Speaker 1: that I bring in exactly. Yeah, And should we define
Speaker 1: the hedonic treadmill real quick? Or have you talked about
Speaker 1: that on your podcast before? I'm sure we've talked about it,
Speaker 1: and I'm sure not everybody hears it all the time.
Speaker 1: Why don't you define it real quick? Oh? Sure? Yeah,
Speaker 1: So basically, think about donic that's pleasure. And so as
Speaker 1: we continue to evolve in our lives get better, we
Speaker 1: very quickly get used to the luxuries and the good
Speaker 1: aspects of our lives, and it makes it harder for
Speaker 1: us to see them in the big picture of everything
Speaker 1: that's going on. So the adaptation or the treadmill analogy
Speaker 1: both are you're just always sort of running towards more
Speaker 1: pleasure and missing what you have because it's in our
Speaker 1: nature too. Once we acquire something, just normalize it to
Speaker 1: a new bay line. Yeah, exactly. The adaptation is a
Speaker 1: principle is us as humans adapt to whatever we're given.
Speaker 1: If we're giving bad things, we have a remarkable ability
Speaker 1: to adapt to them. That's the positive side of it.
Speaker 1: And then the hedonic adaptation is the negative side of it,
Speaker 1: which is we take everything for granted. You know, you
Speaker 1: and I were talking beforehand about how fortunate we both
Speaker 1: are to do the kind of work that we do. Yet,
Speaker 1: if I don't actually sometimes make an effort to remember that,
Speaker 1: you know, this thing that I dreamt of for so long,
Speaker 1: I thought if I just get that, I'll be happy.
Speaker 1: No longer makes me happy. Now gratitude is actually a tool,
Speaker 1: I think. So this is back to his gratitude a tool,
Speaker 1: Is it a state of mind? I think it's all
Speaker 1: of those things. But for me, it's a tool of
Speaker 1: kind of getting back to appreciating the things that I
Speaker 1: actually do have. If you're not using it as a tool,
Speaker 1: how do you think about it or what do you
Speaker 1: find to be a more useful orientation? Yeah, and also
Speaker 1: I don't think it's really for me anyway. It's not
Speaker 1: a black, and there's definitely great where I do use
Speaker 1: it as a tool sometimes, but as far as trying
Speaker 1: to look at a deeper relationship with it, I really
Speaker 1: apply it through the abundance of presence, So just being
Speaker 1: aware of being aware and really melting into the present
Speaker 1: moment with everything that you're experiencing and getting to that
Speaker 1: root level of Oh, right, I am a aware agent
Speaker 1: of consciousness flowing through time in the middle of outer space,
Speaker 1: and I know that I'm a wave of consciousness and
Speaker 1: a meat space suit. This is unreal, right, this is
Speaker 1: so crazy and fun, and it's a good way for me.
Speaker 1: I just remember that and think about that every day.
Speaker 1: I suppose it court just crops up once or twice
Speaker 1: a day. I don't really have to work at it
Speaker 1: too much, but I think about it and it just
Speaker 1: really grounds me and it does pull me back to
Speaker 1: that original mind place that you were talking about of
Speaker 1: like whoa, but I think about everything that like I've
Speaker 1: experienced in life, you know, good and bad, the circumstances
Speaker 1: and like the infinite self organizing possibility of all that
Speaker 1: could be. And this is the meat taxi that my
Speaker 1: brain is in mind is taking a ride, and you
Speaker 1: know like this is crazy. And then of course, as
Speaker 1: I said, it always gets meta where I think the
Speaker 1: fact that I can think about this and I'm aware
Speaker 1: that I'm thinking about this is unreal. And to me
Speaker 1: that like kind of zooming out and zooming in simultaneously.
Speaker 1: It's a way to get the big picture and the
Speaker 1: granular picture at the same time. And then that's whenever
Speaker 1: you know, you can get into that state of the
Speaker 1: classic thing of washing the dishes and feeling you know,
Speaker 1: that's an incredible experience because you're actually there for it.
Speaker 1: You're not somewhere else. You're actually really tuned into just
Speaker 1: how brilliant it is to even be aware of the
Speaker 1: fact that you're aware. Yeah, there's a three aspects of
Speaker 1: gratitude I've been thinking about. For gratitude, I think to
Speaker 1: find its full expression, all three of these things have
Speaker 1: to be happening. And one is we have to be
Speaker 1: paying close attention. It doesn't really work if we're not.
Speaker 1: And then the next is to notice the goodness that
Speaker 1: is there right you know, from your perspective here the
Speaker 1: goodness is just the wonder of what is this? You know,
Speaker 1: what is this? And then the last is sort of
Speaker 1: recognizing it as a gift, right, recognizing like I am
Speaker 1: not the creator of any of this, Like I couldn't
Speaker 1: have made all this happen on my own, So again,
Speaker 1: who the giver is? We don't need to get lost
Speaker 1: on that, if you want to put to me, that's
Speaker 1: not what's important. What's important is I wasn't the source
Speaker 1: of it. Kind of what you were just describing, you
Speaker 1: sort of summarized all three of those things, right, This
Speaker 1: deep attention to the present moment, This recognizing that indeed
Speaker 1: it is good just to be, and that the fact
Speaker 1: that I am is a gift of sorts in that
Speaker 1: I didn't create it. I can barely create a podcast,
Speaker 1: let alone. You know this multiverse we live in, well,
Speaker 1: I mean, don't shut change yourself. Eric. I think that
Speaker 1: you are the creator of all things and the universe.
Speaker 1: I think you are an omnipotent being. I don't like.
Speaker 1: Another important part of it is not getting real heavy
Speaker 1: handed with it, you know, because it's easy for a
Speaker 1: person to get in there and be kind of feeling
Speaker 1: like they need to play the role of what we're
Speaker 1: talking about, to like feel what we're talking about. But
Speaker 1: it's a lot more light than that because I feel
Speaker 1: like one of this type of conversation crops up. There's
Speaker 1: a potential for a listener to try and put on
Speaker 1: that outfit a little bit and wear it in their
Speaker 1: own lives. And the reason it works is because it's light.
Speaker 1: It's not like I'm going to sit down and like
Speaker 1: really curl my brow and like get deep into this
Speaker 1: you know, emotional thing. It's like, no, no, just like
Speaker 1: lighten up. Let go just feel that you're here and
Speaker 1: like notice how amazing it is, and then you're good. Yep.
Speaker 1: And is that enough for you or do you find
Speaker 1: that it actually helps to in some way consciously cultivate
Speaker 1: gratitude or do you find it comes simply by being present?
Speaker 1: To me, it comes by being presents. But also, my
Speaker 1: mind is very curious and extrapo lady at the same time,
Speaker 1: and so I'm always peeling back and thinking about those
Speaker 1: things and expanding. I will say that I think a
Speaker 1: real benefit to practicing gratitude for gratitude's sake and just
Speaker 1: getting into that baseline energy of like alright, like whatever,
Speaker 1: there's always ups and downs. Sayings suck, then they're awesome,
Speaker 1: then they suck again, then they're awesome. That's just the
Speaker 1: way the life goes, and you can mitigate some unnecessary
Speaker 1: suffering by being active. But okay, there it is. It's
Speaker 1: cool that we're here, this is fun, this is beautiful,
Speaker 1: and let's just feel it for a minute. To me,
Speaker 1: I've noticed, because I've kind of experimented and tried to
Speaker 1: do this out of curiosity, is that that baseline of
Speaker 1: gratitude builds a really useful foundation because then whenever you
Speaker 1: do hit a low point and you're feeling the weight
Speaker 1: of the negative sign of the spectrum, it can make
Speaker 1: it a lot more difficult for you to have all
Speaker 1: that weight that's pushing on you make any cracks. I've
Speaker 1: tried to reach my bottom and like have the bottom
Speaker 1: fall through for fun. Really curiosity where it's like if
Speaker 1: I've gotten into a negative mind state, that is fortunately
Speaker 1: it's it's pretty rare. But if I do start feeling
Speaker 1: like I'm sliding into that area of feeling like just
Speaker 1: hopeless or something like that, I'll like flirt with it
Speaker 1: or I'm like, I'm curious if I could get to
Speaker 1: the other side of that, Like what does it feel
Speaker 1: like to just give up? And I can't get there,
Speaker 1: Like I've really tried just to see what it's like.
Speaker 1: As I was in that area of being, like come on,
Speaker 1: like let's let go and like really give up just
Speaker 1: to feel it. And maybe a part of it being
Speaker 1: able to spelunk into the like dark side is like
Speaker 1: that it's because I know that I'll come back, because
Speaker 1: I'm just I always cheer up really easily. You know.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't recommend this for someone who's dealing with depression
Speaker 1: or anything. I was gonna say, we got at the
Speaker 1: top of this show at this point. Good. I hope
Speaker 1: that all of our shows have describers going forward. But
Speaker 1: it's like I, as I was like doing that, I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, yeah, I can't get through there because
Speaker 1: there's that that layer of foundational awe of being. That's
Speaker 1: what the ground floor is, and so all of the
Speaker 1: weight doesn't end up cracking through that because that is
Speaker 1: the root of everything, So all the stuff above it
Speaker 1: can't get through it. Well, any last words on gratitude,
Speaker 1: I don't think so. I'm grateful for you, thank you
Speaker 1: for everything you're doing in the world and the person
Speaker 1: that you're being and sharing out there, and thank you
Speaker 1: for thanking of me for this conversation, and thank you
Speaker 1: for everyone for listening through the weirdness and making it
Speaker 1: to the end. All right, Thanks Corey, thank you m
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