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Speaker 1: Body doors. But Joseph's gotten more. You know, there's certain

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Speaker 1: things in life where we can turn away from if

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Speaker 1: we see something that's occurring and it assaults our senses.

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Speaker 1: First off, we don't have to involve ourselves in it

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Speaker 1: most of the time, because we're creatures at free will.

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Speaker 1: We don't have to subject our eyes to it. Our brain,

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Speaker 1: some people choose to. And I contend that some things

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Speaker 1: that we put into our brains and into our hearts

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Speaker 1: stay with us forever and ever. But you know that

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Speaker 1: there's a group of people out there that work every

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Speaker 1: single day that you never hear about. And I say

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Speaker 1: work because it is work, and it's worked that they

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Speaker 1: didn't expect to get, and they are subjected to some

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Speaker 1: of the most horrific things and they never ask for it. Imagine,

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Speaker 1: if you will, just going about your life and suddenly

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Speaker 1: in the mail you get an envelope a notice contained

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Speaker 1: in it it says that you, on this particular day,

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Speaker 1: shall appear in court for the purpose of serving on

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Speaker 1: a jury. The case we're going to talk about today

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Speaker 1: involves a horrible, horrible double homicide. But there's one person

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Speaker 1: that bore witness to what had happened through photographs and

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Speaker 1: it apparently shocked them to their core. I'm Joseph Scott

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Speaker 1: Morgan and this is Bodybags, Dave. I gotta tell you

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Speaker 1: the story real quick. I'm one of these people that

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Speaker 1: I love doing things that the Constitution says that I

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Speaker 1: have the right to do, or that I have or

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Speaker 1: that I have the the privilege to participate in. And

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Speaker 1: I've always and I know that there's going to be

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Speaker 1: people that are cringing when I say this, I don't care.

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Speaker 1: I've always wanted to serve on a jury. And one

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Speaker 1: of the problems with me serving on a jury is

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Speaker 1: that when you go through the voider and they find

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Speaker 1: out and this has happened in the past, it might

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Speaker 1: not happen now. But when they find out what I

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Speaker 1: did for a living and what I do for a living,

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Speaker 1: I get you know, I get excluded. You know, they

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Speaker 1: strike me is which what they what they call it.

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Speaker 1: You know, they'll strike me because they don't want me

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Speaker 1: back in a jury room offering my forensic opinion about anything.

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Speaker 1: All Right, I don't care. I'll take a I'll take

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Speaker 1: a small claims case. I don't care. It doesn't have

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Speaker 1: to be about almost just want to sit on a jury.

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Speaker 1: I just want to have that experience. But Dave, this

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Speaker 1: case today, Brother, there's one man that's serving on the

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Speaker 1: jury in this case that we're going to be talking

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Speaker 1: about cases that we're going to be talking about, and

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Speaker 1: what he saw before him displayed in court, it literally

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Speaker 1: caused him to collapse and people in the court. I

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Speaker 1: think one of the reporters was there paying attention to

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Speaker 1: the case and suddenly they hurt a large thud. And

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Speaker 1: if you've ever seen one of these elevated jury boxes,

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Speaker 1: they're kind of hollow underneath, so if you fall in

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Speaker 1: that thing, it kind of resonates, you know, out in

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Speaker 1: this big, vacuous space. I think about these people that

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Speaker 1: are just going about their everyday lives and they get

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Speaker 1: the subpoena and it's like, Okay, you're not going to

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Speaker 1: believe what we're going to show you, but you know

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Speaker 1: you're mandated to view it, isn't it?

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Speaker 2: And it could be something you know, when you get

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Speaker 2: that summons, you know, and you're called in to set

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Speaker 2: on injury, it could be something small. I mean, like

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Speaker 2: I mean not small in terms of the people involved

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Speaker 2: in the case, such as a custodial issue over children

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Speaker 2: or whatever money in a divorce. But you could go

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Speaker 2: all the way up to what we're dealing with today,

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Speaker 2: which is Anthony Maggio, who is charged with murdering his girlfriend,

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Speaker 2: Ashton Eden, and the mother of his fourteen month old daughter,

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Speaker 2: who he also is accused of murdering.

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Speaker 1: Wait, hang on, I'm very confused here, and let me

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Speaker 1: tell you why. All right, And I'm not questioning your

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Speaker 1: abilities as a reporter, certainly as arguably, in my opinion,

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Speaker 1: the best producer in podcast anywhere. But you're saying that

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Speaker 1: he has a girlfriend. Okay, I'm so confused about definitions

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Speaker 1: that we have to deal with nowadays, because yeah, he

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Speaker 1: does have a quote unquote, I'm doing big air quotes

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Speaker 1: like Nancy says, he has a girlfriend, but he's also

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Speaker 1: got a fiance as well. Please help me with that,

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Speaker 1: Help me, help me understand the calculus of that. How

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Speaker 1: do you have a girlfriend and a fiance and you've

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Speaker 1: got you've got offspring from both of these individuals.

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Speaker 2: Okay, here we go, Anthony Majio. At the time all

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Speaker 2: of this happens, By the way, the murders occurred on

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Speaker 2: October the second, twenty twenty. Anthony Maggio is a twenty

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Speaker 2: six year old man. At the time, he is a

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Speaker 2: paramedic and actually working at the Amazon warehouse in Illinois.

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Speaker 2: The name just right, Juliette, Elliot, Julliet Jake, that would believe,

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, and Juliet where. Okay, Majo

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Speaker 2: is on staff there as a paramedic. The warehouse is

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Speaker 2: so big and they do have injuries, so they've got

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Speaker 2: him on staff there of co as a paramedic, which

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Speaker 2: I didn't I found fascinating. But he has dreams of

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Speaker 2: working for a much bigger department as a paramedic fireman.

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Speaker 2: He has actually has a gig at a very very

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Speaker 2: small fire department. But at twenty six years old, Anthony

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Speaker 2: Maijo has a dream to be a paramedic fireman in Cicero.

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Speaker 1: So now I think, hey, wait, point of order here, sure,

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Speaker 1: mister mac I got it. I think it in Cicero,

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Speaker 1: isn't that? Isn't that where capone was originally from?

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Speaker 2: It was?

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Speaker 1: I think that it actually was a greater Chicago area.

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Speaker 1: I think it seems like Cicero had something to do

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Speaker 1: with the pone. I don't know, but anyway, Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: a much larger jurisdiction. Yeah, I think all of these.

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Speaker 1: I've got all these facts. I don't know if they're right,

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Speaker 1: but they're contained in my skull, so they would go well.

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Speaker 2: As for Scarface, I thought he was in New York.

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Speaker 2: Guy that moved to Shue, he did move.

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Speaker 1: He did move to Chicago.

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Speaker 2: Anyway, back to Majio here Anthony Maijo, twenty six year

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Speaker 2: old paramedic, and he has a woman that he's engaged to.

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Speaker 2: They've been involved long enough. They have two children together,

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Speaker 2: and he is engaged to her. But while working at

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Speaker 2: the Amazon warehouse in Joliet, he meets the victim, Ashton Eaton,

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Speaker 2: and a romantic relationship begins, and Ashton Eaton becomes pregnant

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Speaker 2: and gives birth to a baby girl they named Hazel

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Speaker 2: Hazel Bryant. I love that little name. That is Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it is so here we are. You have the guy

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Speaker 2: engaged to one woman with two children they have together,

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Speaker 2: and now he has a girlfriend who also has given

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Speaker 2: birth to his daughter.

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Speaker 1: Folks will say, Morgan, you shouldn't judge. I'll judge. This

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Speaker 1: is a train wreck. Yeah, And you know why it's

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Speaker 1: a train wreck because I'm thinking of these two other

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Speaker 1: little babies. I'm thinking of Hazel. You know that this

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Speaker 1: guy is in their orbit, and this is an absolute

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Speaker 1: recipe for disaster, you know. And we see this day

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Speaker 1: played out so many times in these cases that we

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Speaker 1: cover relative to domestic dis settlement. Well hell, yet it's

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Speaker 1: going to be dis settled in this environment because domestic

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Speaker 1: went out the door a long time ago relative to

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Speaker 1: any kind of stability that you're trying to provide for

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Speaker 1: these little babies. And so you wind up these kids

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Speaker 1: don't know anything, but you know this tension that probably exists.

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Speaker 1: And listen, you know, and I know that it doesn't

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Speaker 1: have to be spoken of. That tension just kind of

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Speaker 1: dwells that space. And look, adults do what they are

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Speaker 1: going to do. You know, good luck and God blessed

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Speaker 1: with all of that, but you know that slops over

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Speaker 1: onto the kids. And this environment is so unstable. And

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Speaker 1: as a man, he's directly responsible for this, for creating

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Speaker 1: this instability. What grown man, just hear me out, what

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Speaker 1: grown man sneaks out of the house where he's got

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Speaker 1: two babies with another woman, sneaks out of the house

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Speaker 1: to go involve himself with this woman that he met

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Speaker 1: at work. Oh, by the way, that he has a

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Speaker 1: child with and it is the ultimate and selfish behavior.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it is absolutely horrible. You know, these kids

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Speaker 1: deserved better, and unfortunately Dave, unfortunately the mother of Hazel,

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Speaker 1: wound up paying a really big price for this. But

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Speaker 1: how much more so Hazel as well. Going back to

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Speaker 1: the idea of having this domestic situation. When you think

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Speaker 1: about Dave, when you think about domestic, you think about

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Speaker 1: somebody that is not coming over to sleep during the

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Speaker 1: night and then leave. When I hear domestic, I think

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Speaker 1: you're setting up a household, you're forming you know, it's

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Speaker 1: kind of a very clinical way of saying that you've

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Speaker 1: got a family, and in these circumstances, in these circumstances,

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Speaker 1: with what turns out to be a double homicide, I'm thinking,

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Speaker 1: you know, how was how was this domestic relationship? How

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Speaker 1: was it? How did it function? You know, that's one

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Speaker 1: of the fascinating things to me about people that involve

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Speaker 1: themselves in this kind of behavior. How do you hide it?

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Speaker 1: Are you even attempting to hide it? You know, you

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Speaker 1: think about the awareness of one lover of the other lover,

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Speaker 1: and this individual's kind of jumping from one foot to

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Speaker 1: the other, because I think that at some point in

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Speaker 1: time they just realized that the trains out of control.

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Speaker 1: So but with a domestic relationship, there's something that we

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Speaker 1: have to go back to and we're going to go

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Speaker 1: back into forensics here, because domestic implies that you're in

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Speaker 1: dwell in a space, and le Carte said that every

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Speaker 1: contact leaves a trace. So if you're in an environment

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Speaker 1: with somebody, it's not unusual to find their DNA there

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Speaker 1: evidence that a life was lived there, and particularly if

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Speaker 1: there's a sexual relationship. So just because you find maybe

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Speaker 1: seminal fluid for instance, that's very DNA rich, that doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean that there's anything the fairy is going on as

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Speaker 1: far as the law is concerned. That just means that

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Speaker 1: you're in this environment and you're going to leave these

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Speaker 1: you know, leave these fluids behind. It's when you find

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Speaker 1: them in other places that you begin to kind of

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Speaker 1: scratch your head as an investigator, say, I wonder what's

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Speaker 1: going on here.

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Speaker 2: When Ashton Brian Ashton Eden brother is found on the

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Speaker 2: kitchen floor, she has a long cut going on her

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Speaker 2: forearm and from what appears to be a box cutter,

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Speaker 2: but that's not how she died. Yeah, what do you

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Speaker 2: as an investigator when you walk into this scenario and

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Speaker 2: by the on the backup very quickly. Yeah, when the

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Speaker 2: call to the nine one one is made, Hey, my

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Speaker 2: mom's on the floor in the kitchen and she looks

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Speaker 2: like she's dead. The person on the nine one one call,

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Speaker 2: they have a protocol to make sure because a person

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Speaker 2: might be they might not be They might be unconscious,

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Speaker 2: but they might not be dead. And so they have

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Speaker 2: to go through a few things to make sure the

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Speaker 2: individual is dead and they're on the phone.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and by the way, just let me say this,

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Speaker 1: when you talk to a nine to eleven operator, they

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Speaker 1: do work off of a script. And I don't mean

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Speaker 1: that to diminish what they're doing. Just imagine the volume

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Speaker 1: stuff they're having to listen to. Can you imagine populating

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Speaker 1: your brain with all Because people don't call nine to

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Speaker 1: one one to tell you that they just hit the

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Speaker 1: lottery or that the kid made on a roll. They're

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Speaker 1: calling at the worst times in their life. So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: when you're when a nine to eleven operator comes in

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Speaker 1: into the situation, they're having to hear and react to

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Speaker 1: everything that's going on. And yeah, you're right, dude, is

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Speaker 1: there there is a protocol that goes on about this

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Speaker 1: how much more so you know, you begin to think

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Speaker 1: about this child and let's let me frame this is

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Speaker 1: my fault. I failed to mention this. The actual double

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Speaker 1: homicide took place in twenty twenty. But this has just

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Speaker 1: been adjudicated now. So this child who was she was

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Speaker 1: eleven eleven at the time, she's begun to mature by now. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and so the case has just been adjudicated and living

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Speaker 1: with that for all of these months and now years,

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Speaker 1: and she bears witness to this, Dave. It's a tough thing.

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Speaker 1: And she would be, you know, as the finder. You know,

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Speaker 1: you don't normally think about children being the finder of

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Speaker 1: a dead body and a homicide. It does happen, and

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Speaker 1: you have to be very, very delicate with them when

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Speaker 1: you're questioning them because the trauma is so incredible.

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Speaker 2: And here's how it went down. The eleven year old

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Speaker 2: made a FaceTime call to her grandmother and said something wrong.

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Speaker 2: Something's wrong. Mom's not breathing. And so the grandmother said,

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Speaker 2: take the face take the call over there, let me

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Speaker 2: see her. And grandmother said she looked really bad obviously smoke.

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Speaker 2: And so the grandmother is talking to the eleven year

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Speaker 2: old and says, okay, swooty, call nine to one one.

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Speaker 2: That's where this began from a legal standpoint of the

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Speaker 2: discovery of you love you, you know the finder, And

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Speaker 2: I think about that eleven year old and what she

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Speaker 2: has dealt with in her life to this point. It

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Speaker 2: has got to be as bad as it gets.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah it is. And on a side note, I

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Speaker 1: got to tell you, being a being a forensics professor,

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Speaker 1: you might be shocked to learn this day, but I've

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Speaker 1: never told you this. I cannot tell you how many

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Speaker 1: kids I have had at open days like for college,

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Speaker 1: you know, where they come to visit colleges, or emails

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Speaker 1: that I will get from children that are now adults

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Speaker 1: or they're on the fringes of going to college. They'll say,

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Speaker 1: I want to become a forensic investigator because my sister

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Speaker 1: was murdered or my mother died. I've had I can't

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Speaker 1: tell you how many times that's happened over the course

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Speaker 1: of my career. And you know, imagine this eleven year

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Speaker 1: old and this event that she bears witness to is

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Speaker 1: going to literally change the course of her life. I

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Speaker 1: don't know how much people can possibly appreciate of that,

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Speaker 1: but it's it's such a moment in time that literally,

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Speaker 1: this child right now, and I hope that she's getting help,

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Speaker 1: her life could be be set on a course that

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Speaker 1: we can't even begin to imagine. Now. That's why she's

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Speaker 1: got to have really good people around her, you know,

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Speaker 1: she has to have family around her to protect her

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Speaker 1: going forward. You think about what she bore witness to

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Speaker 1: through an eleven year old's eyes, and that will always

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Speaker 1: be burned into her memory.

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Speaker 2: Dave the call to grandma, you know, and when Grandma

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Speaker 2: is let me see her, and she's called nine one one,

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Speaker 2: Grandpa is already heading out to the car. As soon

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Speaker 2: as he knows what's going on. He's hopping out in

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Speaker 2: the car, and he calls nine one one, you know,

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Speaker 2: to say send help right now. Meanwhile, Grandma is still

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Speaker 2: on the phone with the eleven year old and she

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Speaker 2: describes what she was able to see in that FaceTime call.

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Speaker 2: She said that she was a little blue in the

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Speaker 2: face time, Ashton, She's a little blue in the face.

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Speaker 2: Her left wrist was cut and she was lying laying

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Speaker 2: on the floor there was a knife to the right

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Speaker 2: of her. How important is that observation, Joe, of the

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Speaker 2: actual situation of the victim, how they're laying on the floor,

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Speaker 2: and how their body is found, because my assumption is

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Speaker 2: that as soon as the paramedics get there, that's gone,

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Speaker 2: they're going to immediately roll her over. They're going to

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Speaker 2: be trying to get to see if there's a life

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Speaker 2: saving measure that can be had. And so rarely do jurors,

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Speaker 2: as you let off with, rarely do jurors actually ever

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Speaker 2: get to see what the victim looked like at the

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Speaker 2: time they are discovered.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't because there's always and look, this is

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Speaker 1: not a slight to EMS. I love my friends in

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Speaker 1: the EMS. They have to they have a specific job,

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Speaker 1: and their job is not about preserving evidence. So the

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Speaker 1: fact that and I got to tell you Dave this

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Speaker 1: is I have never me I'm not talking about everybody else.

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Speaker 1: I don't know that I've ever heard of a case

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Speaker 1: where you've got somebody on a platform like FaceTime and

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Speaker 1: they're observing a body in real time. So not only

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Speaker 1: do you have the eleven year olds point of view,

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Speaker 1: but you've got grandma's digital point of view, and pretty

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Speaker 1: soon depended upon the rate at which Grandpa is driving

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Speaker 1: to get there, he might arrive, you know, at the

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Speaker 1: same time that Ems arrives, or you never know, he

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Speaker 1: might walk in the house and look down and look.

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Speaker 1: It's your nature to want to put your hands on

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Speaker 1: the body, particularly if it's your loved one. You want

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Speaker 1: to try to save them, and sometimes that happens. Note eleven.

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Speaker 1: Operators will tell you to start doing chess compressions, those

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Speaker 1: sorts of things. But when you see in this case,

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Speaker 1: Ashton's body laying there on the floor, you're thinking, well,

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Speaker 1: how what's her status? And if she's cold to the

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Speaker 1: touch at that point in time, you know, we in

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Speaker 1: our field would just kind of back off because we

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Speaker 1: know that all hope is lost your family member. You're

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Speaker 1: going to try to do everything you can to try

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Speaker 1: to save this person. I mean, you're hoping against hope

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Speaker 1: that there's still some essence of life left behind that

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Speaker 1: you can save. But the fact that you're seeing and

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Speaker 1: the grandma sees at a distance as the granddaughter's panning about,

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Speaker 1: she makes note of something very significant.

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Speaker 2: Here, Dave.

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Speaker 1: There's a purple discoloration to Ashton's face and you know,

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Speaker 1: and I know that that has certain implications. And then

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Speaker 1: you've got an observation of an injury to her left arm.

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Speaker 1: That's very specific information. Just didn't say, well, she had

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Speaker 1: an injury to one of her arms. No, she saw

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Speaker 1: it well enough to see that there was an injury

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Speaker 1: to her left arm, okay. And then she makes comment

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Speaker 1: that there was a knife lay in there, you know,

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Speaker 1: adjacent to the body. So all three of those elements

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Speaker 1: coming together, and you're freezing that in real time. That's

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Speaker 1: something that we cannot capture once we're at the scene

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Speaker 1: and processing it, because this is truly a case of

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Speaker 1: where you have this individual in the pristine condition, you know,

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Speaker 1: insight to you, as we say, in place pristine. No

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Speaker 1: one's messing around with the body at this point in time.

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Speaker 1: So to be able to relate that to that jury

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Speaker 1: that's sitting up in that box, you can't even begin

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Speaker 1: to calculate the value of that, as opposed to if

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Speaker 1: the body has been removed to the scene, from the

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Speaker 1: scene and taking the hospital, all that's gone. You can

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Speaker 1: forget about it. So yeah, I know it went a

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Speaker 1: long way around the barn with that, but it's so

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Speaker 1: important to understand capturing those first few moments of what

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Speaker 1: you're seeing. That's why if we take statements from the

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Speaker 1: scene of the people that we've classified as a finder,

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Speaker 1: those individuals that actually find the body, and that's how

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Speaker 1: we term it, or the first the first emergency respond responder.

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Speaker 1: Now that could be either our public safety responder, the

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Speaker 1: uniform cop, it could be ems, it could be fire

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Speaker 1: Sometimes they're the first people that our eyes on. That's

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Speaker 1: why the first person that makes the entry of the

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Speaker 1: room and people need to understand this. Guess what you're

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Speaker 1: going downtown. We're going to get a statement from you

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Speaker 1: because that bit of information is that thread that ties

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Speaker 1: everything together because the scene is in a pristine state

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Speaker 1: at that point in time.

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Speaker 2: You know, we have you and I. In the last

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Speaker 2: several months have done a couple of episodes about a

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Speaker 2: murder being staged to look like a suicide. And if

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Speaker 2: I'm the last one we did was an actual police officer, explorer,

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Speaker 2: post leader who did it?

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Speaker 1: Oh boy, yep.

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Speaker 2: In this case, we have Anthony Maggio, who is a

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Speaker 2: paramedic right and a fireman, and he is accused. The

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Speaker 2: prosecutor says that he staged this to look like a suicide.

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Speaker 2: We haven't talked about the baby Hazel. She's fourteen months old.

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Speaker 2: Hazel Bryant is found on her mother's bed and according

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Speaker 2: to grandma, she was surrounded by blankets, like you know,

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Speaker 2: laying in the bed and has her little head tucked

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Speaker 2: under one of the blankets. And they discover that Hazel Bryant,

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Speaker 2: fourteen months old, has been suffocated. And the not the

366
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Speaker 2: not the assumption, but the theory is that Anthony Maijo

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Speaker 2: smothered the baby after he kills the mother, and then

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Speaker 2: he stages it to look like like Ashton, you know,

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Speaker 2: smothered her baby and then killed herself. Of course that's

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Speaker 2: what you gotta fight with now you got I figured

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Speaker 2: that out, Joe. You actually you have a fourteen month

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Speaker 2: old baby that's dead on the bed and you've got

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Speaker 2: her in the kitchen floor with a cut to her arm.

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Speaker 2: Looks like bloody mess.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's something that you would that you know,

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Speaker 1: you begin to think about this cut to the arm

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Speaker 1: that she has sustained. Is this an effort? Is this

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Speaker 1: an effort, like you said, to give the appearance of

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Speaker 1: a staged event. So the big question for us, I

380
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Speaker 1: think would be in the morgue is if we if

381
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Speaker 1: we see this insult to the arm, this cut, one

382
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Speaker 1: of the things that we're going to do is closely

383
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Speaker 1: examine that. The first thing we're going to do is

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Speaker 1: take a look at the margins of it. And when

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Speaker 1: I say margins, I'm talking about the edges of this.

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Speaker 1: Now they've used the term knife, but my understanding, this

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Speaker 1: is actually a box cutter that has that has changeable blades. Sometimes,

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Speaker 1: you know, they'll use a brand name for it. I

389
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Speaker 1: grew up calling a Stanley knife, that's what you know.

390
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Speaker 1: And lead hardware, all right, are Stanley tools. But you know,

391
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Speaker 1: I grew up calling a Stanley knife. And so this

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Speaker 1: box cutter, these blades on the scene are very very sharp.

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Speaker 1: So when you begin to examine an injury like this

394
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Speaker 1: a cut, first off, the margins are going to be

395
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Speaker 1: very even very clean. If you've never been around a

396
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Speaker 1: freshly loaded box cutter, you can shave a hair with it.

397
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Speaker 1: I mean it's that sharp. They're very dangerous to use.

398
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Speaker 1: I mean, all you got to think about is nine

399
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Speaker 1: to eleven. Right, they're razor blades. They are razor blades.

400
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Speaker 1: They are they're very sharp, they have a point on

401
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:41,800
Speaker 1: them for those that have never seen one, and they

402
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:44,440
Speaker 1: have that leading edge, it's a single edge. It's when

403
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:46,520
Speaker 1: you look at it on the side, it's kind of

404
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:50,159
Speaker 1: got well, it's triangle in shape, you know, as it

405
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:52,919
Speaker 1: presents out of the end of the actual handle. And

406
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:54,840
Speaker 1: there's a lot of parts to the handle. So if

407
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Speaker 1: you're thinking about if you're thinking about retrieval of any

408
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,920
Speaker 1: kind of eviden there's so many surfaces, there's so many

409
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:07,199
Speaker 1: crooks and crannies where things can get into. There's a

410
00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:10,360
Speaker 1: side screw where you open the thing up. You've got

411
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:13,439
Speaker 1: the spine that so many times. It's very textured with

412
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Speaker 1: an actuator that almost looks like a thumb actuated trigger

413
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Speaker 1: on the top of it where you press the blade

414
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 1: out or you can retract the blade. But here's the

415
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 1: deal with this, with this Stanley knife, box cutter, whatever

416
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Speaker 1: you want to call it, there will be traces that

417
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:40,399
Speaker 1: will be found there. And in this case, does box

418
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Speaker 1: cutter called all the answers. I hate why I say

419
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Speaker 1: that over and over again. I know my friends are

420
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:03,719
Speaker 1: getting sick of me here in it. Let's don't say why,

421
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:11,080
Speaker 1: I'll say what, what? What would motivate you? What? Would

422
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:17,560
Speaker 1: motivate you to take two lives. And this precious, precious baby.

423
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Speaker 1: Did Ashton? Did Ashton actually kill his child? You know,

424
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Speaker 1: because that's that's one of the things that the police,

425
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:30,280
Speaker 1: at least in the beginning, thought that was going on.

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Speaker 1: And how many listen, Dave, you ever notice o And

427
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:35,600
Speaker 1: it'll happen on the weekends many times we will get

428
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:39,400
Speaker 1: these these things that will come into our news feed,

429
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Speaker 1: you know, because you and I track all this stuff.

430
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 1: How many these cases and we never do any of

431
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:48,119
Speaker 1: them where we have was forred to as a murder

432
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:50,840
Speaker 1: suicide case where somebody goes in and wipes out their

433
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 1: family and then they kill themselves and it generally only

434
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 1: makes it through like one news cycle maybe too. So

435
00:27:57,119 --> 00:27:59,359
Speaker 1: this is kind of imprinted in our brain. You know.

436
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:02,840
Speaker 1: You come in, you find a deceas smother and it

437
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:05,480
Speaker 1: seems like, yeah, it's plausible because it seems like it

438
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 1: happens a lot. You've got to deceea smother And oh,

439
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:10,880
Speaker 1: by the way, yeah, back in the bedroom, you got

440
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 1: this precious little angel that I think you said that

441
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:16,920
Speaker 1: they determined that she had been suffocated.

442
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 2: Dave, Yeah, smothered is determined that you smothered.

443
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:26,439
Speaker 1: Okay, when you're talking about smothering suffocation, you have to

444
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:28,920
Speaker 1: think about there's an even broader term that you use,

445
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:33,920
Speaker 1: and that's called asphyxia. If you just imagine that asphyxia

446
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:38,200
Speaker 1: instead of a typical pyramid shape, it's an inverted pyramid.

447
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 1: So if you think about asphyxia as the as the

448
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 1: foundation everything else that kind of extends up and out

449
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:49,560
Speaker 1: from asphyxia. There are different forms of oxygen deprivation there

450
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 1: out there. We call them a variety of things. So smothering,

451
00:28:53,920 --> 00:29:00,160
Speaker 1: if you think about asphyxial deaths, you have suffocation that say,

452
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 1: subset of of asphyxia. And then even smothering is actually

453
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:16,560
Speaker 1: a subset of suffocation. So it goes asphyxia, suffocation, smothering.

454
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:21,720
Speaker 1: All right. We can talk about ligature strangulation like with

455
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 1: hanging or a groat. Those are mechanical. You have chemical

456
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 1: asphyxiation where somebody's exposed to gas you know, see carbon

457
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 1: monoxide or like you know, we cover the case of

458
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:39,280
Speaker 1: the guy that was executed here in Alabama with nitrogen gas. Okay,

459
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 1: that's an asphyxial death, but that's a gas related asphyxiation.

460
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 1: So what we're talking about is oxygen deprivation, and there's

461
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 1: trauma that results from all of this stuff. On some level.

462
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,560
Speaker 1: It might be more subtle in other areas. But when

463
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 1: you think about smothering in particular, I think about my

464
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 1: grandmother because old an old term that the people in

465
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 1: south would use years ago if they were hot. My

466
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 1: grandmother used to always say, I'm smothering to death up

467
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:10,200
Speaker 1: in here, and so what she meant by that she

468
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 1: couldn't catch her breath because it was so hot. But

469
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:17,520
Speaker 1: smothering itself is actually it's an action that takes place

470
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 1: most of the time. I think classically what people consider

471
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:25,840
Speaker 1: to be a smothering has to do with a pillow

472
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 1: over the face. But you know, Dave, it can be

473
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 1: facilitated so much even you don't even have to do that,

474
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 1: particularly when it comes to baby. All you have to

475
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,760
Speaker 1: do is hold your hand over their nose and mouth

476
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 1: and press down. And people I've heard people say over

477
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 1: the years that it's the perfect homicide. It's not the

478
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 1: perfect homicide. There is no perfect homicide. Now you can

479
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 1: grade it and say, well, it might result in less trauma.

480
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:02,479
Speaker 1: It very well might. However, with smothering, particularly if you're

481
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:04,320
Speaker 1: going to do it to an adult, but it's probably

482
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:07,160
Speaker 1: less with a baby. They're going to draw their hands

483
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 1: up and the perpetrator, if they're putting their hands physically

484
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 1: trying to block the airway. Most of the times perpetrator

485
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 1: is going to wind up with scratches on them.

486
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 2: Uh.

487
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 1: Inevitably, this this will happen. One of the things that

488
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 1: we look for in smothering is uh, forgive me for

489
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:35,360
Speaker 1: going over the same ground. But the frenulum, the little

490
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 1: piece of tissue that connects our gums to our lips,

491
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 1: that little that little linear uh linear attachments you have there.

492
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 1: Many times with smothering, people are fighting and just imagine

493
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 1: somebody's got their hand over your mouth and you are

494
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:58,160
Speaker 1: swinging your head back and forth, back and forth violently,

495
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 1: and there's been pressure applied. What happens is the fremulum

496
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 1: will rupture. It'll rupture, You'll see little lacerations in it.

497
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:09,960
Speaker 1: So you have to examine the mouth very very carefully

498
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 1: at the scene and then further at the autopsy, so

499
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 1: you'll get what are referred to as torn frenulum or framulie.

500
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:21,120
Speaker 1: And so you're going to examine for that, and you're

501
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 1: also going to look for any kind of purple discoloration.

502
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 1: Generally that's an indication of some type of respiratory distress.

503
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 1: All right, you're going to look for petiki, which are

504
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 1: the tiny, little broken vessels in the eyes, and depended

505
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 1: upon how much pressure is being applied, there is a

506
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 1: direct correlation between amount of pressure and the extent to

507
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 1: what you're going to see PETIKII. So with a child,

508
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:57,360
Speaker 1: a baby, an infant, dave such as Hazel, it won't

509
00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 1: take much to murder her. I don't like to use

510
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 1: the word murder because it's a lawyer's word. It doesn't

511
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:08,480
Speaker 1: take much to commit this homicide. You're not going to

512
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 1: have to use a lot of force in order to

513
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 1: facilitate it. You just simply occlude her airway or block

514
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:18,120
Speaker 1: her airway, her little mouth, her little nose, and it

515
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:20,720
Speaker 1: would be easily accomplished. And you're not going to see

516
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 1: as many petiki with a baby like that. However, with

517
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:26,520
Speaker 1: an adult, they're going to have an awareness of it.

518
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 1: You'll see thrashing about. They get particularly violent, and because

519
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,000
Speaker 1: they're trying to breathe and they're trying to fight off

520
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:36,760
Speaker 1: at the same time, and you'll get these little vessels

521
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:39,320
Speaker 1: that will pop in the eye. So in my experience,

522
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:42,480
Speaker 1: at least you see them with children, with little children,

523
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:44,560
Speaker 1: but you don't see them as much as you do

524
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:46,239
Speaker 1: with adults. And a lot of that is just that

525
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 1: indwelling pressure that's building up, that awareness of and they

526
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 1: don't have the strength to fight back like an adult. Wood.

527
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 2: All right, So we've got fourteen month old Hazel dead

528
00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 2: on the bed, in the bed, we have her mom,

529
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:04,280
Speaker 2: we know there's a cut on our arm, we know

530
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:08,439
Speaker 2: there's a box cutter. Forensically speaking, what are you going

531
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:09,960
Speaker 2: to be testing and what are you going to be

532
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 2: looking for, Joe or is this just a blanket. Let's

533
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:17,720
Speaker 2: look at the entire setup here. Everything's being tested, everything's

534
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:21,480
Speaker 2: being looked at. Because we hear about DNA testing thrown around,

535
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:26,400
Speaker 2: and it's not that general. It's very specific, isn't it

536
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:26,799
Speaker 2: It is?

537
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:29,319
Speaker 1: It's very specific, but you have to have I think

538
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:35,440
Speaker 1: that it's important to try to assess, assess both bodies

539
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:41,839
Speaker 1: to the extent. Well, first off, I'm thinking female. Automatically,

540
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:47,280
Speaker 1: my mind goes to a sexual event, okay, where you're

541
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:49,799
Speaker 1: looking to see if there's an evidence of rape, like

542
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:55,759
Speaker 1: a forced intercourse, okay, and I don't just mean I

543
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 1: mean with the adult. I'm talking about with a child

544
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:00,960
Speaker 1: as well. And that was even mentioned in the reports

545
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 1: regarding this case that uh, you know, to the exclusion,

546
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 1: they determined that there was no sexual assault here. But

547
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 1: that's something you're going to look for and sometimes it's

548
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:18,799
Speaker 1: negative findings and forensics are fantastic. They're actually they work

549
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 1: to your benefit because if you find no evidence of

550
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:25,759
Speaker 1: a sexual assault, that means that it's going to put

551
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 1: you onto the path, a path to another answer, you know,

552
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:33,560
Speaker 1: to try to understand the rationale why this happened or

553
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:37,799
Speaker 1: what happened, uh more more accurately. So if you can

554
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:41,360
Speaker 1: rule out a sexual assault where you know, the clothing

555
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:45,240
Speaker 1: is disrupted, uh maybe it's been tossed aside or moved

556
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:51,120
Speaker 1: to one side, and you have h trauma uh involving

557
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:54,720
Speaker 1: say the vagina, the anus, you know, those sorts of things.

558
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 1: If you're absent that, then that's going to put you

559
00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:01,200
Speaker 1: on a different path investigatively, you know what could be

560
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:05,160
Speaker 1: the motivation behind this and taking these lives. But you

561
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:09,120
Speaker 1: have to assume and it's not necessarily well, it is

562
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 1: kind of an assumption that if you have an asphixial

563
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:18,520
Speaker 1: type death. This is very intimate day and with intimacy

564
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:23,920
Speaker 1: comes deposition of DNA. So just just the knife itself,

565
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 1: as I'd mentioned a moment ago, it's got that box

566
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:32,160
Speaker 1: cutters tend to have very textured surfaces to them. A

567
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:34,000
Speaker 1: lot of it has to do first off, the company

568
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 1: realizes that it's a very sharp instrument, so you want

569
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:41,000
Speaker 1: a texture surface as opposed to a perfectly smooth surface.

570
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:44,040
Speaker 1: So there's all little nooks and crannies where if you're

571
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:48,400
Speaker 1: shedding blood are if you have shed someone else's blood,

572
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 1: you would expect to find. You can clean the blade

573
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 1: off all you want, all right, but you're not necessarily

574
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 1: going to be absent of the biological specimen. It's there

575
00:36:57,120 --> 00:36:59,400
Speaker 1: because it can literally get caught. If you have like

576
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:02,279
Speaker 1: a die in pattern, which I've seen some of these

577
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:07,840
Speaker 1: Stanley Stanley Knis box cutters have a diamond pattern. The

578
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 1: little crooks and crannies in there can contain blood, and

579
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 1: you might not if you're the perpetrator and you try

580
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:13,920
Speaker 1: to clean this thing up, you're not going to be

581
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:17,600
Speaker 1: aware of it, all right, And then you have to ask, well,

582
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:21,280
Speaker 1: what type of DNA deposition is it is? It sourced

583
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:26,880
Speaker 1: from semen blood or is this touch DNA? You know,

584
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:32,640
Speaker 1: touch DNA is just a partial strand that generally arises

585
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:36,600
Speaker 1: from shedding skin cells. Well, that's a very passive thing.

586
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:41,880
Speaker 1: Anybody could have held that knife during their time inside

587
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:46,800
Speaker 1: of that house. So if you've got if you've got Ashton,

588
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:49,400
Speaker 1: if it's in her house and we can prove that

589
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:53,120
Speaker 1: it's her box cutter, then you would expect to find

590
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:58,880
Speaker 1: her DNA on it. Well, if she's involved with Magio

591
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:02,480
Speaker 1: then and he's coming to her residence, I think that

592
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:04,799
Speaker 1: the defense can say, well, you would expect it. You know,

593
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:07,319
Speaker 1: he may have opened boxes for he may have used it.

594
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:10,759
Speaker 1: Uh uh you know, uh this box cutter, which some

595
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:13,520
Speaker 1: people call a utility knife by the way, Uh, he

596
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:16,560
Speaker 1: may have you know, used it to trim I don't know,

597
00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:19,759
Speaker 1: flooring for or work in the bathroom. So yeah, you'd

598
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:22,400
Speaker 1: expect to find his DNA there. But what source was

599
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:25,480
Speaker 1: the DNA? You know, because if it's just touch DNA

600
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 1: easily explained away. What's hard to explain away is any

601
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:31,759
Speaker 1: kind of body fluid Because you don't expect somebody to

602
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:37,560
Speaker 1: hold a box cutter if they're bleeding. Okay, you don't

603
00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 1: expect to find, say, for instance, semen at least I

604
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:43,720
Speaker 1: would hope not on a box cutter. You know. That's

605
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:49,520
Speaker 1: that's uh, that's that that goes against everything that you

606
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:52,560
Speaker 1: would think of, uh investigatively, and it would be a

607
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:54,759
Speaker 1: big note to you know, to kind of hit upon

608
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:57,759
Speaker 1: you know, so the sourcing of the DNA, what does

609
00:38:57,800 --> 00:38:59,880
Speaker 1: it come from? And then who does it belong to?

610
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:04,000
Speaker 1: But here's what you can't get past with this. The

611
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 1: box cutter actually had nothing to do with her death.

612
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:13,880
Speaker 1: This is a staging implement or at least to you know,

613
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:17,800
Speaker 1: give the impression. But when you think about Ashton's cause

614
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:21,440
Speaker 1: of death, her cause of death is asphyxia. And if

615
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:26,040
Speaker 1: you're trying to say that, I don't I don't understand

616
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:29,680
Speaker 1: what the rational are. How particularly if you have any level,

617
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:33,360
Speaker 1: any degree of medical knowledge, which paramedics do. So what

618
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 1: are you trying to say here that she cut herself

619
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 1: with a box cutter. There's not like an incredible volume

620
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:46,319
Speaker 1: of blood laying around You're trying to say that's the

621
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 1: cause of death. Because I got to tell you, people

622
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:53,000
Speaker 1: that cut their cut their their wrists, generally their heads

623
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:56,799
Speaker 1: are not going to turn purple. Okay, you don't. You

624
00:39:56,880 --> 00:39:59,840
Speaker 1: don't get that presentation that what we refer to is

625
00:39:59,880 --> 00:40:04,440
Speaker 1: that cyanotic appearance that it looks. It's literally dave the

626
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:08,640
Speaker 1: color of an eggplant if and sometimes it'll be a

627
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:12,560
Speaker 1: lighter shade, but then it gets it can get really

628
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:14,200
Speaker 1: really dark. And a lot of that has to do

629
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:17,239
Speaker 1: with the amount of pressure. So if her and you

630
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:21,840
Speaker 1: and I have both been on FaceTime calls, the quality

631
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:26,239
Speaker 1: is not necessarily the greatest. But if she's if the

632
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:31,000
Speaker 1: grandma is able to actually visualize the fact that you've

633
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:35,600
Speaker 1: got cyanosis that's going on with a FaceTime call, you

634
00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:39,320
Speaker 1: know that it's going to be pretty pronounced. There's nothing

635
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:41,360
Speaker 1: that we can do or that we can say that

636
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:45,880
Speaker 1: can bring Ashton back and bring Hazel back so that

637
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:48,520
Speaker 1: they could continue on with the life that they had

638
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:52,719
Speaker 1: begun to lead, the life that they had together. But

639
00:40:53,800 --> 00:41:00,960
Speaker 1: when you think about this, this great hasm that has

640
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:04,279
Speaker 1: been opened up, this hole that is left in the

641
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:11,279
Speaker 1: lives of all of these people around their lives, it

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00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:14,800
Speaker 1: really gives you pause. Because whether it be in the

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00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:17,560
Speaker 1: jury box, the rest of the members of the court,

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00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:23,479
Speaker 1: or whether it be an eleven year old girl that's

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00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 1: subject to this along with her grandmother. It's my hope

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00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:32,080
Speaker 1: I think, when all of a sudden done relative to the

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00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:36,560
Speaker 1: deaths of both Ashton and precious little Hazel, that we

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00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:39,799
Speaker 1: will not soon forget. Just like thinking about the man

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00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:42,720
Speaker 1: that had to bear witness to this in the jury box,

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00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 1: that passed out all the other jurors that had to

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00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:53,600
Speaker 1: make this decision the courts. But I think maybe even

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00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 1: with more impact that mother and that daughter that were

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Speaker 1: initial the eyes on to view the horror that took

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Speaker 1: place in this house. I hope that Ashton and Hazel

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Speaker 1: are not soon forgotten. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this

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Speaker 1: is body Packs