Speaker 1: I'm off my game today, You're not. People are going
Speaker 1: to have to start making better content. I think we're
Speaker 1: gonna be talking about this for a long time. When
Speaker 1: you program for everyone, you program for no one. I
Speaker 1: think it's that we're purpose driven platform, like we're trying
Speaker 1: to get to substance. How was that? Are you happy
Speaker 1: with that? This is marketing therapy right now? It really is?
Speaker 1: What's up? I'm Laura Currency and I'm Alexa Kristin. Welcome
Speaker 1: back to at Landia. So I just want to start
Speaker 1: off with a shout out. So for all of our
Speaker 1: at Landia listeners, we all know we're big fans of
Speaker 1: Laura CURRENTI I am particularly and Laura's going to kill
Speaker 1: me and be embarrassed for this, but I am particularly
Speaker 1: proud of my friend, my partner, my colleague, who last
Speaker 1: week was inducted into the Advertising Hall of Achievement. Huge congratulations, Laura,
Speaker 1: like an achievement that is, thank you for being my
Speaker 1: partner for five seven, seven years, because there are so
Speaker 1: many things that, um, we're recognized that we built together.
Speaker 1: That we're back Thanksgiving week, Happy Thanksgiving at Landia. We're
Speaker 1: bringing back Sarah Fisher, media reporter over at Axios to
Speaker 1: talk about the state of the industry as we go
Speaker 1: into the holiday season, specifically like talking about Facebook, which
Speaker 1: is something that like we can't ignore everybody's reporting on
Speaker 1: it and what's happening, and that kind of explosive report
Speaker 1: that The New York Times put out last week. I
Speaker 1: just think that, like from a brand perspective, from a
Speaker 1: media agency perspective, this gets even more interesting on how
Speaker 1: agencies are going to handle this stuff. And Sarah gets
Speaker 1: into it a bit and also talks about their new
Speaker 1: show on HBO. So really excited to have her with that. Atlantia.
Speaker 1: We hope you enjoy this special at Landia look at
Speaker 1: What's Happening in the industry with Sarah Fisher. We'll be
Speaker 1: right back. We have one of our favorite people returning
Speaker 1: for the third time. Magic number three. Sarah Fisher, Media
Speaker 1: reporter at Axio. Sarah, welcome, Thank you so much for
Speaker 1: having me. Good morning. Good morning, So Sarah, a lot
Speaker 1: of news coming out of Menlo Park around Facebook and
Speaker 1: know you've been covering this latest news. Can you give
Speaker 1: our listeners a high level overview of what's going on
Speaker 1: with Facebook and how the industry is reacting. Absolutely so
Speaker 1: The New York Times published a damning report last week
Speaker 1: that essentially said that some of these books top leaders,
Speaker 1: including CEO Mark Zuckerberg and CEO Cheryl Sandberg, were negligent
Speaker 1: in the way that they handled stake news, misinformation, election medaling, privacy,
Speaker 1: data security, a whole bunch of issues. Now, of course,
Speaker 1: executives came back swinging punches, saying that's just not true.
Speaker 1: We've made mistakes, but we've learned from them. But what
Speaker 1: we're seeing now is that for the first time, advertisers
Speaker 1: are starting to really think critically about whether or not
Speaker 1: they should be spending on these platforms. In the past,
Speaker 1: we didn't see ads spend it all that much in
Speaker 1: wake of Russian meddling or Cambridge Analytica. But now analysts
Speaker 1: are saying that they expect advertisers to begin to take
Speaker 1: a closer look at this. And when you talk to
Speaker 1: some of the biggest ad spenders for Facebook, so some
Speaker 1: of the folks that run the big agency holding group,
Speaker 1: these executives are saying, look, we don't trust anymore that
Speaker 1: Facebook is a place that has good values and has
Speaker 1: good brand value for our clients, and that is a
Speaker 1: very serious threat to Facebook's ad revenue. How does try
Speaker 1: nine team planning unfold if agencies and brands decide they've
Speaker 1: had enough. Well, I think, first of all, the timing
Speaker 1: of this is interesting because, as you mentioned, it is
Speaker 1: planning seasons, but a lot of those ur fps that
Speaker 1: begin January one have been science fils and delivered. So
Speaker 1: my assumption is that by Q one you're not going
Speaker 1: to see a huge difference spending, And my assumption is
Speaker 1: that it's Facebook can figure out a way to manage
Speaker 1: this crisis, then maybe you don't see this happen in
Speaker 1: Q two. I think what you're going to see is
Speaker 1: that advertisers are going to look eventually at shifting their
Speaker 1: spend to places where they can do target advertising, but
Speaker 1: they're going to have to figure out how they can
Speaker 1: do it at scale. I mean, that's the value at
Speaker 1: it Facebook. Two billion people are users not just across Facebook,
Speaker 1: but also across Instagram and some of their messaging apps.
Speaker 1: So expect advertisers to dump more money into places like Google,
Speaker 1: so Google News and Google Search where they're not facing
Speaker 1: as great as brand safety problems, but you can still
Speaker 1: target people at scale, But also expect them to take
Speaker 1: some of those dollars and put them in other places
Speaker 1: where they can target people from digital. But maybe the
Speaker 1: skill isn't as good, but at least it's a little
Speaker 1: bit of whoop round safe. So I'm thinking about things
Speaker 1: like connected TV, addressable advertising, maybe some new up and
Speaker 1: coming platforms where people are spending a ton of time,
Speaker 1: like a flipboard or maybe even a TikTok. That's what
Speaker 1: I would expect to happen in the market. And then
Speaker 1: of course you're always going to have people that say,
Speaker 1: you know what, forget about digital, I'm gonna double down
Speaker 1: on TV and billboards and other sorts of things. But
Speaker 1: I'd expect that slowly over time. If Facebook can't manage this,
Speaker 1: the money will blow somewhere else. I mean, it's a
Speaker 1: huge opportunity, right for competitors. I think I was listening
Speaker 1: to The Daily and they had a great clip of
Speaker 1: Tim Cook basically saying we are not going to sell
Speaker 1: your information. We are not in the business of you, right,
Speaker 1: We're in the business. And I think that like that
Speaker 1: is going to become a kind of a resounding talk
Speaker 1: track for a lot of their competitors. Um to gain
Speaker 1: more advertisers and to gain more spend. Is that true?
Speaker 1: I think that's I mean, we interviewed Tim Cooks for
Speaker 1: our Access on HBO show and one of the things
Speaker 1: he mentioned is that, you know, Apple has never really
Speaker 1: been an advertising business. They've always been a hardware business.
Speaker 1: But we know that the iPhone sales are plateauing and
Speaker 1: that growth is decelerating for some of their hardware products,
Speaker 1: sympically do to saturation. I mean, most people already have
Speaker 1: functioning iPhones, so they're trying to picket to software sales,
Speaker 1: which means that you're selling subscriptions to apps. You're trying
Speaker 1: to get people to spend more time with things like
Speaker 1: iTunes or whatever it may be. But this trend that
Speaker 1: you're seeing people shifting into not just software sales, but
Speaker 1: you know, digital potentially ad based software sales is not
Speaker 1: just native to Apple. We see Microsoft doubling down on this.
Speaker 1: To remember, they acquired linked In and now making close
Speaker 1: to two billion in advertising from LinkedIn. So I think
Speaker 1: you're right. I think that people are going to look
Speaker 1: at what's happening in Facebook competitors and say, how can
Speaker 1: we learn from this, How can we potentially scoop up
Speaker 1: some of that revenue by marketing. Our products is being
Speaker 1: branded safe as being value based, and it's not just
Speaker 1: going to be your other digital players like Twitter and
Speaker 1: Google as you mentioned with Apple, it could also be
Speaker 1: some of the more traditional you know, Harvard players are
Speaker 1: looking to get into software. That's been an opening here.
Speaker 1: What about a potential pivot back to traditional mediums, non
Speaker 1: digital platforms like radio and TV and out of home
Speaker 1: And one of the things that we've been following is
Speaker 1: the need to find a one to one engagement and
Speaker 1: going deeper into more contextual targeting, creating communities, building conversations.
Speaker 1: What does that look like? Because I think this highlights, uh,
Speaker 1: some of the issues in sort of mass digital scale
Speaker 1: UM platforms. I definitely think that some of the traditional
Speaker 1: ad platforms that are digitized thing or on the rucks
Speaker 1: if you take a look at out of home. Out
Speaker 1: of home has been growing year over year because billboards
Speaker 1: and subway posters are all becoming digital and thus they
Speaker 1: can be bought and sold programmatically. In fact, a lot
Speaker 1: of those companies I think are going to thrive in
Speaker 1: the driverless car era because they're so location based. As
Speaker 1: the data that they have they will be able to
Speaker 1: maximize through partnerships with other platforms. As far as where
Speaker 1: other of traditional media platforms are going, I mean, the
Speaker 1: same thing is happening with TV. It's becoming more addressable,
Speaker 1: it's going over the top, and so eventually you'll find
Speaker 1: a world in which all television advertising is bought and
Speaker 1: sold programmatically, and I think that people will be shifting
Speaker 1: their dollars there. Radio is an interesting one that I
Speaker 1: am curious to see what happens, and that's because as
Speaker 1: we're seeing with revenue trends and user trends, terrestrial terrestrial
Speaker 1: radio is having a tough time. Streaming podcasts, those are
Speaker 1: doing very well, but regular radio that you're listening to
Speaker 1: their car is not experiencing as much growth simply because
Speaker 1: people are tuning into digital alternatives. So my long answer
Speaker 1: if you're short question is anything that's going digital, people
Speaker 1: will invest their dollars there. But if you're not innovating
Speaker 1: and going digital, you're just those traditional ad mediums. We're
Speaker 1: not going to exceed dollar spite. It's every ad medium
Speaker 1: that is a digital medium at risk for the type
Speaker 1: of fraud and the type of issues that we've seen
Speaker 1: on a scale like Facebook. Absolutely, I'm gonna be writing
Speaker 1: about this uh in my newsletter that connected TV is
Speaker 1: basically an ad fraud scheme right now, anytime you're not
Speaker 1: buying one to one, you're not buying direct. You have
Speaker 1: a broken supply chain, you have middlemen that make you
Speaker 1: more susceptible to fraud schemes and to complications, and so
Speaker 1: I would absolutely anticipate that as more advertising goes automated,
Speaker 1: you're gonna just have an increase in fraud and increasing complications.
Speaker 1: The good news is though, that I think more and
Speaker 1: more people are starting to look at programmatic direct, which
Speaker 1: is where you use programmatic infrastructure to target ads, but
Speaker 1: you're still selling them one on one. You see this
Speaker 1: with ad vendors using something called ad dot t f T.
Speaker 1: While this isn't totally direct, it's essentially saying to the publishers,
Speaker 1: you have to pre approve the vendors that are you're
Speaker 1: going to be working with. And I think steps like
Speaker 1: that will help reduce fraud. But it's something that the
Speaker 1: industry is always going to have to monitor as more
Speaker 1: ad mediums move digital. So you were just talking about
Speaker 1: the idea of TV becoming addressable, or that all television
Speaker 1: advertising has the potential to become automated. Are we at
Speaker 1: all worried about the backlash that that creates. I think
Speaker 1: some of the things that we've heard in the market,
Speaker 1: and going to Lyndia Karino's State of the Industry forum
Speaker 1: last year was around the idea that a few or
Speaker 1: more contextual ads presents, you know, a more favorable experience
Speaker 1: for consumers. Are you hearing anything around that and do
Speaker 1: you think that that could create a larger pushback in
Speaker 1: that it kicks over to the subscription side. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think so. I think we'll consumer hate advertising. That's why
Speaker 1: subscription based platforms are on the rise. That's why Netflix
Speaker 1: do so well is because we've become a tuned, especially
Speaker 1: younger generations, to to add out. We don't want to
Speaker 1: have to be bothered by them. The problem is that
Speaker 1: once you do get to an era where we are
Speaker 1: all attached to five G, where streaming becomes the default
Speaker 1: because linear is too slow, there is going to be
Speaker 1: a fundamental shift in how television advertising is purchased. Right now,
Speaker 1: about ten of television advertising is bought through advanced channels,
Speaker 1: what a be programmatic or addressable or a little o
Speaker 1: t T expect that in the coming years to shift
Speaker 1: closer to one hundred, and when it does, you as
Speaker 1: a marketer are not going to be able to necessarily
Speaker 1: buy that massive scale ads day parted the way that
Speaker 1: you used to, and you're just going to have to
Speaker 1: adjust now. I do think that the market will adjust
Speaker 1: a little bit itself, meaning that even though there are
Speaker 1: going to be a lot of opportunities to target people
Speaker 1: in a really niche way, there's still going to be
Speaker 1: opportunities to hit people cheaply for a big scale buy.
Speaker 1: I don't know exactly what that's going to look like
Speaker 1: because we haven't really seen it yet. You know, addressable
Speaker 1: still so small, but I think that eventually, for people
Speaker 1: who need to market goods at scale, the opportunity will
Speaker 1: be there. How do you think that impacts the creative
Speaker 1: industry right? Because the types of ads in the digital space,
Speaker 1: there's the nimbleness and the ability to shift in that
Speaker 1: sort of creative development. But when it comes to creating
Speaker 1: something on air, typically the process is much more complex.
Speaker 1: Do you think that you know, agencies in particular, and
Speaker 1: our content studio sitting within, you know, networks and publishers
Speaker 1: have to think about what that creative world looks like,
Speaker 1: oh absolutely. I mean there's two big things here. The
Speaker 1: first is that digital allows you to optimize in real time.
Speaker 1: You could do a small test buy on digital, see
Speaker 1: which creatives work for which audiences, and optimize and change
Speaker 1: your creative. And by the way, there will be a
Speaker 1: time when AI will help you optimize your creative. You
Speaker 1: can swap in the color of a sweater or the
Speaker 1: tone of somebody's voice to make it more appealing. I
Speaker 1: think too, if you're a brand, you've had to worry
Speaker 1: about making sure that you're advertising is household friendly and
Speaker 1: family friendly. And I think you know, addressable advertising is
Speaker 1: going to mean that you can target your creative a
Speaker 1: little bit more acutely. And even if you look at
Speaker 1: some grants who are trying to make sure that their
Speaker 1: product is marketed in a way that's appeasing to the
Speaker 1: whole family, they might not have to worry about it
Speaker 1: as much in a DPC world. So I do think
Speaker 1: you're right that creative will adapt and change to be
Speaker 1: more customized and to be less focused on pleasing every
Speaker 1: single member of the family because they're going to have
Speaker 1: the opportunity to target a little bitter. Do you think
Speaker 1: that you know, brands like maybe the P and G
Speaker 1: S and the Nest Lease and the Mars and all
Speaker 1: those folks that are looking for scale will also start
Speaker 1: using addressable to do more testing. Yeah, I mean I
Speaker 1: think that pretty much what's going to happen is that
Speaker 1: people right now the way, especially if you talk to
Speaker 1: political campaigns, you use digital as last you see what
Speaker 1: creative resonates, and then you apply those learnings to traditional
Speaker 1: media so GEO, t V or you know, television. I
Speaker 1: wouldn't surprise me if you start to see the opposite
Speaker 1: happen as well, where now that the barrier to entry
Speaker 1: for television comes way down, more people can afford advertising
Speaker 1: on TV, people will use addressable TV AD budgets to
Speaker 1: test and optimize for digital platforms or O T T
Speaker 1: or whatever it might be. So I definitely think that's
Speaker 1: coming down the pike. I think at the end of
Speaker 1: the day, everything goes digital AD medium that was ever
Speaker 1: traditional becomes digital or dies or devolved to be something
Speaker 1: that's more digital like, and eventually you're going to be
Speaker 1: able to save your planner. I want a test budget
Speaker 1: across medium. Here's a hundred thousand dollars to test and
Speaker 1: then you can funnel down and say, all right, well,
Speaker 1: this digital ad performs really well on streaming, this digital
Speaker 1: ads performed really well on digital billboards, and you'll be
Speaker 1: able to narrow down which mediums you spend with after
Speaker 1: doing a one broad digital test. I think that's the future.
Speaker 1: One note on that, though, I think is interesting is
Speaker 1: that you know, for print it's still a place where
Speaker 1: even digital brands take out full page ads to make
Speaker 1: a statement when you think about the number of brands
Speaker 1: asking for more experiential and how I would think about
Speaker 1: it from a planning standpoint is moving to a place
Speaker 1: where there's complementary offline online builds, where all of a
Speaker 1: sudden we move away from channel planning and we start
Speaker 1: thinking about ecosystem I think that's right. I we read
Speaker 1: a poll for Actis a couple of days ago and
Speaker 1: it basically suggested that more people are craving in person communication,
Speaker 1: and I think the same thing is happening with marketing.
Speaker 1: You have niche efficiency buys that are low funnel and digital,
Speaker 1: and because everything is going digital, everything moves to low
Speaker 1: funnel on digital and then you use what was top
Speaker 1: of the funnel, so you're broad based television targeting or
Speaker 1: newspaper ads they still exist in some cases, or quite frankly,
Speaker 1: top of the funnel totally evolved into something way more experiential.
Speaker 1: So I remember Giant spoon Wire your agency did a
Speaker 1: live PD ad with Mass Mutual during New Year's V Right,
Speaker 1: that is something that marketers would need to thought about
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago. But we have to put
Speaker 1: so much more emphasis on top of the funnel experiential
Speaker 1: now that everything is going digital and everything is moving
Speaker 1: to the bottom of the funnel. And so what does
Speaker 1: top of the funnel mean. I mean, it could be
Speaker 1: an experiential at on New Year's e it could be
Speaker 1: a massive billboard in times square are functionality, Yes, a
Speaker 1: newspaper takeover if people are still reading newspapers. It's anything
Speaker 1: that exactly has high level impact. And I think we
Speaker 1: spend so much time talking about what the bottom of
Speaker 1: that funnel is going to look like, how everything's moving digital.
Speaker 1: But you're right, we're not spending enough time thinking about
Speaker 1: how this really changes the top of the funnel in
Speaker 1: ways that we don't even know yet well. And the
Speaker 1: idea that like an Alexa and I have spent our
Speaker 1: entire careers moving towards this non linear funnel, right, this
Speaker 1: idea that marketing is layered in nuanced and how do
Speaker 1: you have a mic drop complimented with you know, always
Speaker 1: on media and being comfortable with the fact that people
Speaker 1: are going to come into your brand however they want.
Speaker 1: I think of one thing that's really interesting that you're implying, Sarah,
Speaker 1: And we've talked a lot about this with folks like
Speaker 1: Rachel Typograph, that marketers have underestimated the relationship between top
Speaker 1: of the funnel and lower funnel, right, And I think
Speaker 1: that that has fundamentally changed, but the market has actually
Speaker 1: been slow um to adjust for that, and you're seeing
Speaker 1: agencies and marketers actually shine through who understand it. So
Speaker 1: I think it's a really interesting paradigm. Let's talk two
Speaker 1: seconds that we want to hear more about Axios on
Speaker 1: HBO speaking of traditional non traditional. Tell us more about
Speaker 1: the show. The show has been an interesting experience for
Speaker 1: everyone involved. I think one you take a bunch of
Speaker 1: print journalists and you try to make something for television,
Speaker 1: and you recognize your own strengths and weaknesses. And that's
Speaker 1: important not just for us, because it's opening up our
Speaker 1: eyes to how we could improve our storytelling. But it's
Speaker 1: also I think good for HBO and other TV platforms
Speaker 1: that are trying to understand how print or text based
Speaker 1: news UH sees the framing of news. For so long
Speaker 1: on television, I would watch You Know Sixty Minutes or
Speaker 1: a few other news shows try to tackle these very
Speaker 1: serious but complicated topics for general American audience, and it's
Speaker 1: hard to do it without dumbing it down. And we've
Speaker 1: kind of approached the show with the perspective of there's
Speaker 1: a way to tackle really high level issues that are
Speaker 1: important to everyday Americans without having to dumb it down,
Speaker 1: without having to address the biggest possible and whist audience.
Speaker 1: And so I think that's part of why we went
Speaker 1: with HBO. HBO consumers pay for that experience. It's a
Speaker 1: premium cable channel and over the top experience, and our
Speaker 1: assumption was that people would want something that would talk
Speaker 1: about news of the day in a way that's sexy
Speaker 1: and interesting but not dumb down, and so far, I
Speaker 1: think it's working. I think some of the interviews that
Speaker 1: we've had and made news we interviewed can cook. This
Speaker 1: past episode, we interview Donald Trump, our first episode. I
Speaker 1: think people like it so so far, the experience has
Speaker 1: been wonderful. We're very grateful to HBO and all the
Speaker 1: efforts that they're putting into it and everything that they're
Speaker 1: teaching us about how we need to think about storytelling differently.
Speaker 1: You know, we don't really think about the visual aspects
Speaker 1: of all the time when we're writing stories. But now
Speaker 1: we see the power of some of these visual mediums.
Speaker 1: You know, we couldn't have walked through the Apple Garden
Speaker 1: and see how they're planning a are through test, like
Speaker 1: that's something we could have only done their videos. I
Speaker 1: think for us, like we started the podcast because in
Speaker 1: fact we didn't want to go with video. The point
Speaker 1: is is also it's not just exploring new mediums, it's
Speaker 1: also what is right for the story. I think a
Speaker 1: lot of digital first media companies are starting to recognize
Speaker 1: that these over the top partnerships they're they're actually high
Speaker 1: level marketing vehicles. You listen to meritithal Loving and from
Speaker 1: York Times on earnings casts, so tell you like their
Speaker 1: partnerships with Effects or you know, wherever they're running their
Speaker 1: tea shows. It's hyphonal branding. It's what's getting people who
Speaker 1: didn't normally pick up a paper or go to your
Speaker 1: own line exposed to you, and I think we are
Speaker 1: thinking about it in the same way. So, Sarah, what
Speaker 1: would you kill by d I y in the industry
Speaker 1: as we close out? So from my kill, I wouldn't
Speaker 1: say that I would absolutely kill this, but maybe I
Speaker 1: could bend the rules and reevaluate my relationship and marketers
Speaker 1: relationship with Facebook. Given some of the headlines that we've
Speaker 1: been hearing, I think that it's only a matter of
Speaker 1: time that their brand value becomes a risk with your
Speaker 1: brand value. If you're choosing to put your money where
Speaker 1: your mouth is and advocating for, you know, a transparent,
Speaker 1: transactional marketplace, then Facebook right now doesn't seem to be
Speaker 1: the best fit. But I understand that there's still a
Speaker 1: lot of marketing value and that it might not be
Speaker 1: easy to just pull every dollar. So I think I
Speaker 1: would not necessarily kill but reevaluate our relationship with Facebook
Speaker 1: when it comes to add them. Okay, what would you buy?
Speaker 1: I would buy into anyone who's doing sports betting media.
Speaker 1: We just did a big set on this with active
Speaker 1: sports betting is going to explode. It's going to become
Speaker 1: a massive part of both media and sports revenue. And
Speaker 1: for those like I think about draft kings that are
Speaker 1: starting to create shows, CBS doing the same thing about
Speaker 1: how where you should be putting bets, the same thing
Speaker 1: with fantasy. By the way, that is a smart investment.
Speaker 1: It's only going to spike more states are going to
Speaker 1: approve legislation that allows you to gamble. That's where I
Speaker 1: would invest. What would you do yourself? I think, especially
Speaker 1: ahead of the holiday season, there's a lot of books
Speaker 1: that I want to read, and I think that we
Speaker 1: should all be reading a little bit more. And that's
Speaker 1: the one thing I want to do myself is take
Speaker 1: some time to reflect, slow down and just you know,
Speaker 1: dive in to some really good books, especially once about
Speaker 1: the industry. You know, kind of a lot of had
Speaker 1: that really great book front of these I think I
Speaker 1: want to pick it back up again, just to help
Speaker 1: me unwind and be more effective. So book clubs starting
Speaker 1: nineteen with Sarah Fisher. We'll have to come put the
Speaker 1: name for this, Sara Fisher. Happy Thanksgiving, Happy Thanksgiving. Thankful
Speaker 1: for you. Yes we are in this industry. Talk to
Speaker 1: you soon, Bye bye, Thank you for coming back. Sara,
Speaker 1: always so impressive, always so on top of what's going
Speaker 1: on in the industry. It's such a clear kind of view.
Speaker 1: And we've got to get you to the five timers
Speaker 1: because now you're at the three time check four and
Speaker 1: five is on its way, and I think we should
Speaker 1: start this book club with Sara Fisher. It's a great idea. Anyway,
Speaker 1: we hope badly and you have an amazing Thanksgiving friends
Speaker 1: and family, take some time off the screen, get advice
Speaker 1: from Sarah Fisher, read a good book, industry or not,
Speaker 1: and we will be talking to you in another couple
Speaker 1: of weeks. Big thanks for our producer Diana, Big thanks
Speaker 1: to all of our friends and family at Panoply. Happy Thanksgiving,
Speaker 1: gobble gobble m h Full disclosure. Our opinions are our own. H.