Speaker 1: Welcome to Invention, a production of I Heart Radio. Hey,
Speaker 1: welcome to Invention. My name is Robert lamp and I'm
Speaker 1: Joe Mccormickin today, we wanted to have a little discussion
Speaker 1: about how certain types of weapons going way back into history,
Speaker 1: and especially projectile weapons, changed the human animal. That's right,
Speaker 1: But I mean put yourself as much as is possible
Speaker 1: in the mindset of our prehistoric ancestors. You know, we're
Speaker 1: you know there they were. They were scroungers, you know,
Speaker 1: leveraging a large primate brain to forage sustenance from roots
Speaker 1: and berries, uh, you know, from from the meat they
Speaker 1: learned to catch, scavenge or steel from larger predators. And
Speaker 1: key to all of this is distance. I think it's
Speaker 1: easy to take this for granted, and especially those of
Speaker 1: us who are removed from any kind of hunting tradition. Well,
Speaker 1: I've got a story about this. Actually, for the first
Speaker 1: time in my life, the other day, somehow I got
Speaker 1: within like twenty feet of a deer. I was just
Speaker 1: out walking my dog along a forest path here in town,
Speaker 1: you know, a park here in town. Um, and uh
Speaker 1: that I was completely blind to it. Suddenly the dog's
Speaker 1: attention goes, you know, rigid, This whole body is just
Speaker 1: full of electric tension, and his ears are up and
Speaker 1: he's frozen, and I'm like, what's going on? And then
Speaker 1: the deer bolts, and the deer had been, you know,
Speaker 1: maybe less than twenty feet away from my body, and
Speaker 1: I'd been just blind to it. It completely blended in
Speaker 1: with the leaves and the trees and all that. But
Speaker 1: what it actually made me realize is I never get
Speaker 1: that close to a deer. Normally, at long distances away,
Speaker 1: they hear you moving and they bolt. You don't get
Speaker 1: anywhere that close to him. Yeah, And I mean, certainly
Speaker 1: there are places where you can you can go where
Speaker 1: the wildlife has been desensitized to human presence, such as
Speaker 1: say you go to Yosemite National Park, you know, or
Speaker 1: or where you go to the Grand Canyon, and you're
Speaker 1: in some of those high tourist areas where the animals
Speaker 1: are not in danger, and therefore you can get i'll
Speaker 1: alarmingly close to say an enormous elk or a Grand
Speaker 1: Canyon squirrel. Oh yeah, the Grand Canyon squirrel. Well, I
Speaker 1: mean that highlights the other thing is if people have
Speaker 1: been illicitly feeding these animals, which in general you shouldn't do. Yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: do not feed the bears. But yeah, but I think
Speaker 1: this this drives home that like, uh, during this time, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, they're there are all these animals at large
Speaker 1: in the world. But how many can you get close to?
Speaker 1: How many can you get close to enough to potentially
Speaker 1: kill in order to acquire their protein? Um, it's gonna,
Speaker 1: you know, depend you know, situationally, it's going to depend
Speaker 1: you know, is this an injured animal? Is this an
Speaker 1: animal that was killed by another predator? But a lot
Speaker 1: of it is going to come down to like human skill.
Speaker 1: Uh can you can you stalk this creature? Can you
Speaker 1: be stealthy enough to close the distance between yourself and
Speaker 1: the protein? And there are some theories about like the
Speaker 1: the ability of endurance running in humans, that endurance runing,
Speaker 1: our ability at marathon ng and stuff is to compensate
Speaker 1: for the fact that a short distances almost all prey
Speaker 1: animals can outrun us. But that with a lot of them,
Speaker 1: we can run for longer than they can, and after
Speaker 1: they tire out and can't go anymore, we can finally
Speaker 1: catch up with them. Yeah, It's it's kind of like
Speaker 1: the terminator approach. But this is yeah, this is part
Speaker 1: of our human hunting heritage, is that this was one
Speaker 1: way we were like, well, I can't I can't out
Speaker 1: battle the animal, I can't outrun it. But I can
Speaker 1: be persistent and I can I can fix my mind
Speaker 1: on it, and I can just never stop until it
Speaker 1: wears out. But even then, if you're getting close range
Speaker 1: with even a lot of prey animals, I mean not
Speaker 1: to speak of predators who might be preying on us,
Speaker 1: but say like a large bovid type animal, you know,
Speaker 1: a bison or a or a large stag or a moose.
Speaker 1: You get close to one of those things and it
Speaker 1: can hurt you. Oh yeah, I mean you're talking about
Speaker 1: either being gored by the point of end or or
Speaker 1: kicked by the other end. And these can these can
Speaker 1: be fatal blows or gores in either case. Uh. And
Speaker 1: then yeah, the predators as well, like these are animals
Speaker 1: that are far more adept at closing the distance between
Speaker 1: their hunger and the shape of you know, a lowly
Speaker 1: primate for example. Uh, A primate that you know, for
Speaker 1: all its tricks of stone and stick and fire, is
Speaker 1: still helpless against an adversary or even a you know,
Speaker 1: like you said, a large prey animal if there is
Speaker 1: no distance left and no technological advantage exactly. And then
Speaker 1: we're talking about a time here when there were no
Speaker 1: bows and arrows yet, so we had we had rocks
Speaker 1: that could be thrown and uh, and this is being
Speaker 1: one of of the rocks many specialized roles that we've
Speaker 1: created for it, um, you know, and because we had
Speaker 1: pretty dexterous hands, right uh. And we're pretty good at
Speaker 1: throwing things, but there's only so much you can do
Speaker 1: with a rock. And then of course there's the spear.
Speaker 1: The spear. The spear is kind of a game changer,
Speaker 1: right yeah. I mean the spear is it's a tree
Speaker 1: that we've made into a horn, right or into an
Speaker 1: antler or a great tooth um. And uh. The thing is,
Speaker 1: when we're looking back at a prehistoric humans and even
Speaker 1: their their predecessors, you know, these were things that were
Speaker 1: already in use. The spear had had been in use
Speaker 1: by these creatures and those that came before them for
Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands of years um. And we should also,
Speaker 1: I think make a distinction between the the thrusting spear,
Speaker 1: which is used for stabbing and the throwing spear. Right, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean either way, we're talking about an incredible piece
Speaker 1: of technology because it enables them to hunt prey and
Speaker 1: defend against predators that their ancestors could have rarely engaged.
Speaker 1: Uh and um, you know there were there were limits
Speaker 1: either way. So if you're using it as a thrusting tool, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's still pretty impressive, right because you're
Speaker 1: talking about say a six to seven foot spear, But
Speaker 1: then you still have the big distance problem about getting
Speaker 1: close to a prey animal that might be dangerous or
Speaker 1: just impossible because it's outrunning you. Right, Yeah, So six
Speaker 1: to seven feet you can you know, thrusting it, you're
Speaker 1: adding to the length of that spear essentially. But unless
Speaker 1: you are just super lucky or just or skillful beyond words,
Speaker 1: that one spear is probably not going to be enough
Speaker 1: to do it, or you're gonna miss or you're gonna
Speaker 1: hit the wrong spot. So you know, you're gonna have
Speaker 1: to depend on all these other bits of primate trickery
Speaker 1: at your disposal. You're gonna have to depend on the
Speaker 1: stealth numbers, some sort of strategy. Um, you know, multiple
Speaker 1: spear thrusters and even then you're awfully close to a
Speaker 1: dangerous animal. And even when you're getting into throne spears,
Speaker 1: you know, essentially a javelin, even then you're there are
Speaker 1: limits to to the range and you're still going to
Speaker 1: be faced with a similar situation. You still have to
Speaker 1: get you have to close the distance enough to utilize
Speaker 1: the weapon, and then you need to be able to
Speaker 1: close the deal without the creature fleeing again, leaving you
Speaker 1: in the dust and perhaps being picked off by some
Speaker 1: other predator that's more skillful than you, that can take
Speaker 1: advantage of the wounded. Yeah, that's all right. But even
Speaker 1: given all of these limitations, we shouldn't underestimate the power
Speaker 1: of the spirit. It's sort of changed what kind of
Speaker 1: predator we are thinking about before projectile weapons. You are,
Speaker 1: you are so limited just just by reach, and the
Speaker 1: spear that that is thrown is a kind of revolutionary
Speaker 1: update of the body schema. You know, it's it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, it's a tooth that leaves the body. Yeah,
Speaker 1: which is you know, sort of the you know, you
Speaker 1: see that kind of advancement sometimes in the in the
Speaker 1: in the biological world. But yeah, for the moment, for
Speaker 1: certainly for a primate. This is a new skill altogether. UH.
Speaker 1: And it's a but it's a pretty it's a pretty
Speaker 1: old invention. UM the spirit itself when we try to
Speaker 1: date it. While the remains of wooden spears have been
Speaker 1: found in Hanover, Germany that date back to four hundred
Speaker 1: thousand years ago, and we're talking between six and seven
Speaker 1: point five foot javelins here, UM, so the idea is
Speaker 1: that they would have been thrown weapons. UH. The technology
Speaker 1: UM is even older, though the weapons don't always survive UM.
Speaker 1: For instance, they fossilized rhinoceros shoulder blade UM was found
Speaker 1: in Box Grove, England, and it had a projectile wound
Speaker 1: in it, and that's been dated to about five hundred
Speaker 1: thousand years ago. And this, incidentally, this wouldn't have been
Speaker 1: the work of of of modern Homo sapiens. This would
Speaker 1: have been the work of Homo heidelberg insis, which was
Speaker 1: an immediate process that predecessed there to Homo sapiens. And UH.
Speaker 1: In terms of how these spirlit spears were composed, stone
Speaker 1: pointed spears date back at least three hundred thousand years
Speaker 1: to Neanderthals and archaic Homo sapiens but five hundred thousand
Speaker 1: year old deposits at cathu Pan in South Africa have
Speaker 1: presented evidence of their use among Homo heidelberg insis. So again,
Speaker 1: the spear is ultimately more ancient than even our species. Now,
Speaker 1: the idea of a weapon that you can throw, especially
Speaker 1: like a spear that you can throw, that's sort of
Speaker 1: an upgrade on just throwing a rock or even throwing
Speaker 1: like a byface. So you know, like the hand axes
Speaker 1: that we've talked about, um, that you might have been
Speaker 1: able to create a sharp edge on, and we don't
Speaker 1: know exactly what those were always for. We don't know
Speaker 1: that they were necessarily thrown weapons. Um. But but throwing
Speaker 1: a spear is definitely an upgrade. I mean that that
Speaker 1: adds a new dimension of lethality to to the reach
Speaker 1: of your body in a hunting or fighting context. But
Speaker 1: you're still somewhat limited in range there, because have you
Speaker 1: ever tried to throw a seven foot spear? How far
Speaker 1: can you throw it? I mean, I've thrown a broom before,
Speaker 1: but it's hardly the same thing. Uh Well, I mean
Speaker 1: you probably know intuitively that you're not going to achieve
Speaker 1: the same kind of range. Uh and speed of throw
Speaker 1: with a with a hand thrown spear that you can
Speaker 1: with say a bow and arrow, right, and you can
Speaker 1: go a lot farther and shoot a lot faster, uh,
Speaker 1: with an arrow and an attention bow than you can
Speaker 1: just trying to hurl a rod out of your hand. Right.
Speaker 1: And we'll get into some of the comparative ranges as
Speaker 1: we proceed here. But uh, in terms of just looking
Speaker 1: at a throne spear, you have to take into account
Speaker 1: the math of range and accuracy. Right, Um, But consider
Speaker 1: the modern Olympic record for javelin throwing, which we might
Speaker 1: consider sort of the peak of distant spear throwing technology
Speaker 1: because we're talking about utilizing him in the cases you know,
Speaker 1: modern designs, modern materials, and also this is generally a
Speaker 1: situation where one is is not trying to take down
Speaker 1: a living animal. Uh, You're you're just throwing for distance sake.
Speaker 1: But the the the record that I ran across was
Speaker 1: one hundred and four point eighty meters or three hundred
Speaker 1: and forty three feet nine and three four inches. And
Speaker 1: this was a record set, an Olympic record set by
Speaker 1: East Germany's Yui Han in En four. And this is
Speaker 1: actually a throw that forced a redesign in an Olympic
Speaker 1: javelins to keep them within the safe confines of the field. Um.
Speaker 1: As such, he's the only Olympic javelin thrower to break
Speaker 1: the hundred meter barrier. But as we're saying this, uh,
Speaker 1: this is something that is a modern situation, brought about
Speaker 1: by the fact of modern design and materials of this
Speaker 1: javelin and the fact that he's purely going for distance.
Speaker 1: This is not an attempt to hit something and wound
Speaker 1: it with accuracy. Right, Yeah, there's a difference between say,
Speaker 1: hitting the broadside of a barn and then hitting the
Speaker 1: broadside of Satan mammoth, and and again with the mind
Speaker 1: of not only hitting it and saying, hey, look how
Speaker 1: great I am at throwing a javelin. No, you're you're
Speaker 1: not great at throwing a javelin in the prehistoric context
Speaker 1: unless you and those working with you can bring the
Speaker 1: animal down, because ultimately it's all about survival. But again,
Speaker 1: the spear was a game changer and it was around
Speaker 1: for a long time. I mean, we're we're not really
Speaker 1: even really going to get into military usage all that
Speaker 1: much in this episode, but um, you know, we should
Speaker 1: note that the spear would remain, would become and remain
Speaker 1: a standard in military conflict for thousands of years, especially
Speaker 1: when used in a phalanx, you know, a close formation
Speaker 1: of troops that all have spears. But then again, you're
Speaker 1: not gonna be able to use that really to to
Speaker 1: you know, go bring down of stag. Not really, you
Speaker 1: don't really think about that being hunting tactic, right, Your
Speaker 1: falanx doesn't really keep up with the stag. But again,
Speaker 1: the spear was a major technology, was a game changer,
Speaker 1: and it remained in use for a very long time.
Speaker 1: But at some point a new range weapon uh came
Speaker 1: on the scene, and that was, of course the bow
Speaker 1: and arrow. Right. And you might think, okay, well, there's
Speaker 1: just like the next step, right, you go from throwing
Speaker 1: a spear with your hand to the bow and arrow
Speaker 1: and there's nothing in between, right, Uh. When that is
Speaker 1: not true. That's the that that is the whole reason
Speaker 1: we're doing this episode is to talk about the technology
Speaker 1: that comes between these advancements. That's right. We are talking
Speaker 1: about a projectile delivery system, one of the one of
Speaker 1: the most beautiful early machines that humans put together that
Speaker 1: is commonly today known as the addle adele. Alright, on
Speaker 1: that note, we're gonna take a quick break, but when
Speaker 1: we come back, we are going to discuss the spear
Speaker 1: throwing technology. Alright, we're back, so it's time to talk
Speaker 1: about upgrading the spear by upgrading the delivery mechanism of
Speaker 1: the spear. And this is before you get to the
Speaker 1: bow and arrow. This is after the hand thrown spear,
Speaker 1: before the bow and arrow. There's this weapon that comes
Speaker 1: along in human techno history. Uh and it's not nearly
Speaker 1: as well known as the bow, obviously, but it is
Speaker 1: nevertheless one of the most world changing and longest use
Speaker 1: technologies in human history. And this weapon is the audleladdle. Uh. So,
Speaker 1: the word addle lattle is spelled a t l a
Speaker 1: t l. It comes from the n waddle language of
Speaker 1: the Aztec. But it's it's just that's just one regional
Speaker 1: variant of the name. More generally, this technology is sometimes
Speaker 1: known as the spear thrower or the dart thrower. Though
Speaker 1: don't let the word dart give you the wrong idea there.
Speaker 1: When I first read dart thrower, I was thinking, okay,
Speaker 1: like a game of darts. So something that's like four
Speaker 1: inches long and hold in your hand now that this
Speaker 1: is going to be referring to a huge projectile. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're talking a something that you would look at and
Speaker 1: classify as a very large arrow or a or a
Speaker 1: or even just a spear, like a spear with fletching
Speaker 1: sort of. So there are other words and other languages
Speaker 1: for the same tool. Uh. Apparently in Spanish it's known
Speaker 1: as the estolica, and in French it's the propulsire. The
Speaker 1: English transliterations, I think of the common Australian terms for
Speaker 1: it are are woomera or miru. I was reading that
Speaker 1: there's a version used by some of the you pick
Speaker 1: people of Alaska, mostly for hunting seals. Reportedly even to
Speaker 1: the present day by some that's called the new cock
Speaker 1: or the throwing board. On this being the idea that
Speaker 1: it's it's essentially in this case of I mean it's
Speaker 1: kind of board shaped. Yeah, not the dart itself, but
Speaker 1: the throwing device, the the the equivalent of the addle addle,
Speaker 1: which we're going to be focusing on today. So what
Speaker 1: is this thing if you've never seen one in action? Well,
Speaker 1: in some ways, it looks so simple, it's deceptively simple.
Speaker 1: It's simple in a way that hides the gene use
Speaker 1: of this invention, and I would argue that it's one
Speaker 1: of our earliest biological augmentations, ways of sort of upgrading
Speaker 1: the human body, almost in a kind of video game,
Speaker 1: since like sort of the first steps towards cyborg dum.
Speaker 1: One example, of course, of this type of bioaugmentation would
Speaker 1: be something like wearing animal skins as clothes. You know,
Speaker 1: this turns our relatively climate sensitive bodies into technological hybrids,
Speaker 1: like as if we had fur and extra layers of
Speaker 1: skin to help us keep warm and protect us from
Speaker 1: the weather. And the addle Lottele is like this, except
Speaker 1: instead of upgrading our epidermist. It's a similar type of
Speaker 1: upgrade for the spear throwing human arm. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: like any tool use upgrades the body schema, like it
Speaker 1: updates the way that your brain is processing the limits
Speaker 1: of your body and how you use your body. So
Speaker 1: you know, if you use a you have a sharpened
Speaker 1: uh stick in your hand, you have a sword in
Speaker 1: your hand, well, your that is an extension of your arm. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's an increased like the lethalid in the reach of
Speaker 1: your hand, right, and that in a nutshell is what's
Speaker 1: going on here is increasing the length of the throwing arm.
Speaker 1: Uh Well, one bit of technology that that it's I
Speaker 1: think it's sort of comparable to, is the tennis ball
Speaker 1: thrower that dog enthusiast and dog owners sometimes have. Yes,
Speaker 1: if you've ever seen one of these things that I
Speaker 1: think it's mostly actually just for keeping the slobber off
Speaker 1: of your helps you pick it up to so it's
Speaker 1: like a little scoop that you know, if your your
Speaker 1: dog brings the tennis ball back to you, it's covered
Speaker 1: in in drool and you pick it up in this
Speaker 1: scoop and then you whip the scoop out overhand and
Speaker 1: throw the ball. And it also helps you get distance
Speaker 1: on the because I don't have one that's for dogs,
Speaker 1: but I have one um that that is for for children,
Speaker 1: similar concept. I guess where the child out by throwing
Speaker 1: it farther so that but it's like a whistle ball,
Speaker 1: like one of these like nerf whistleball things. And I
Speaker 1: was it's really super fun because you can just really
Speaker 1: hurl this thing like like like crazy like far, you know,
Speaker 1: far greater distance than you could by just trying to
Speaker 1: throw it like a mini football. But how does that happen.
Speaker 1: Your arm didn't get any stronger. You're just as strong
Speaker 1: as you were when you were throwing at those puny
Speaker 1: distances with your hand. Uh So, the same principle is
Speaker 1: at play in the addle addle. So the invention has
Speaker 1: two primary parts. One is the dart, which we were
Speaker 1: talking about a minute ago. It looks sort of like
Speaker 1: a huge arrow. It's going to be usually a wooden
Speaker 1: shaft with a sharpened point at its tip, either like
Speaker 1: a stone spearhead or just a sharpened wooden tip in
Speaker 1: anything sharp and puncturing. And then on the back it's
Speaker 1: going to have fletchings. So I think these feather fins
Speaker 1: that you would see on the back of an arrow,
Speaker 1: and those are for aerodynamic stabilization. They help it fly straight.
Speaker 1: If you've never seen a dart like this, basically just
Speaker 1: picture something that is like an arrow, but spear sized,
Speaker 1: maybe six feet or about one point eight meters long
Speaker 1: on average, though they can be a good bit longer
Speaker 1: or shorter. The average is about six or seven feet.
Speaker 1: Then you've got the launching device, the auto laddle itself,
Speaker 1: which is a baton that is used to throw the dart,
Speaker 1: and this is usually going to be in the range
Speaker 1: of about one and a half to two ft long,
Speaker 1: or about fifty to sixty centimeters roughly. Though then again,
Speaker 1: you know, like the dart, this can be a good
Speaker 1: bit longer or shorter. Uh so, So picture something kind
Speaker 1: of like a two ft baton. It's got a grip
Speaker 1: handle on one end and on the other end some
Speaker 1: type of component that couples with the back end of
Speaker 1: the dart. And this can be a cup shaped depression
Speaker 1: that the back of the dart sits in, or it
Speaker 1: can be kind of a simple hook that the back
Speaker 1: of the dart catches in, or sometimes it's actually inverted
Speaker 1: where the back of the auto laddle has a spur
Speaker 1: that locks into a groove or depression on the rear
Speaker 1: end of the dart. Does that make sense. Yeah, we'll
Speaker 1: try and have at least one image of this on
Speaker 1: the landing page for this episode at invention pot dot com.
Speaker 1: But also, this is the kind of technology that a
Speaker 1: lot of you have probably had the privilege of seeing
Speaker 1: in either in a museum when when it's available, or
Speaker 1: at least a recreation of it, or various YouTube videos
Speaker 1: where people have recreated them. Yeah, you can look up
Speaker 1: all kinds of There are tons of attle lott of
Speaker 1: enthusiasts out there today. In addition to the people who
Speaker 1: actually do still actively hunt with it, there are a
Speaker 1: lot of people who just kind of play with them recreationally, right,
Speaker 1: and the addle lotto itself, taking into account both modern
Speaker 1: and ancient variations, it can often look just very utilitarian,
Speaker 1: like like clearly a stick that you know it is
Speaker 1: for uh, you know, for for launching a spear, you know,
Speaker 1: not not a lot more than that. But you also
Speaker 1: see some rather ornate looking ones that really look like
Speaker 1: a scepter. You can sort of tell that they have
Speaker 1: some sort of a functionality, like they're like, clearly there's
Speaker 1: some sort of purpose for its shape. But uh, you know,
Speaker 1: there's some some wonderful examples of this for the you know,
Speaker 1: date back say seventeen thousand to thirteen thousand years ago, uh,
Speaker 1: for modern day France, and the example I was looking
Speaker 1: at it, it looks like a deer perched atop a stick.
Speaker 1: And there are these added birds as well. And in
Speaker 1: some of these cases these maybe these may be nonfunctional
Speaker 1: versions of the add a lottle. This is what it
Speaker 1: would have been, say the odd a lottle that you
Speaker 1: would put on the wall the same way that they are. Like,
Speaker 1: swords have a real function and they were made for
Speaker 1: a real functional reason. But there are plenty of just
Speaker 1: decorative swords that exists, you know, the fancy one that
Speaker 1: you hang up over the mantel or the hand ax
Speaker 1: is another example of this. They're like there's some examples
Speaker 1: of the hand ACKs that that may have been hard
Speaker 1: to say in many cases, but may have been purely decorative.
Speaker 1: But that gets into this weird relationship we have with
Speaker 1: our technology, right we When technology plays an important role
Speaker 1: in our lives, it can be fetishized, it can be
Speaker 1: it can be revered, it can be even attributed with
Speaker 1: magical properties. Uh and to the point that it may
Speaker 1: not actually be physically used for the thing that it
Speaker 1: was made to do anymore, such a like every sword
Speaker 1: sold at a rint festival as an example of this.
Speaker 1: There are tons of ways in which tools and objects
Speaker 1: used to do work becomes symbolic. And because they become symbolic,
Speaker 1: I mean they're they're hugely evocative things. Think of the
Speaker 1: hammer and sickle symbolizing like work and plenty and you
Speaker 1: know all that, or the sword and shield on medieval
Speaker 1: heraldry or whatever. That's just like showing strength and power,
Speaker 1: and you know so, um so the tools themselves become
Speaker 1: incredibly powerful symbols. Yeah, you're exactly right, But let's say
Speaker 1: it's not just for decoration. You actually want to use it.
Speaker 1: So you're out hunting and you're in a warfare scenario.
Speaker 1: You're in a hunting scenario, and so to use the addolazzle,
Speaker 1: what you do is you hold the dart parallel to
Speaker 1: the launching baton to the addolzzle, so they're they're sitting
Speaker 1: basically side by side, flat against each other, and you're
Speaker 1: gonna hold them horizontal with the back end of the
Speaker 1: dart knocked into the cup or the hook or the
Speaker 1: spur whatever it is that connects with the back of
Speaker 1: the dart, with the art pointing forward, so you're gonna
Speaker 1: be holding it up over your shoulder, pointing forward towards
Speaker 1: your target. And when you've aimed at your target, you
Speaker 1: sort of whipped the odd lattal forward with the handle end,
Speaker 1: which brings its length from its horizontal starting place through
Speaker 1: a vertical arc. And then the back end of the dart,
Speaker 1: of course, is pushed as it pivots on the spur
Speaker 1: or the copp or the hook before the dart is
Speaker 1: loose at the top of the arc and then flies
Speaker 1: free toward its target. So you can think of the
Speaker 1: motion a little bit not exactly the same, but a
Speaker 1: little bit sort of like an overhand tennis stroke, right,
Speaker 1: You're like bringing the launching device forward to launch the
Speaker 1: projectile with the thing that extends out from your hand. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Or if you think in other way, is if you
Speaker 1: think of it of the of just like you know,
Speaker 1: this overhand throw of a spear, it's like you have
Speaker 1: mechanically recreated the arm and the spear. Again, it's kind
Speaker 1: of a mechanical projectile hurling arm brandished by a human arm.
Speaker 1: Or more specifically, though, it is a lever that extends
Speaker 1: the length of the spear thrower's arm for a fight
Speaker 1: or momentum. Right, it makes your arm longer, and it
Speaker 1: gives you another joint in your arm. So instead of
Speaker 1: just shoulder, elbow and wrist to pivot and whip along
Speaker 1: to deliver that that momentum, you essentially get a second forearm.
Speaker 1: And so so why is this better than just throwing
Speaker 1: a spear with your hand? Well, the primary advantage of
Speaker 1: and we can discuss some other possible advantages as well,
Speaker 1: but the primary advantage of the auto ladle over the
Speaker 1: hand thrown spear is that it flies a good deal faster,
Speaker 1: which increases the range of flight and the force of
Speaker 1: the impact and the depth of penetration when it hits
Speaker 1: its target. Yeah, so let's let's talk some numbers again.
Speaker 1: So consider earlier, we're talking about a modern javelin throwing
Speaker 1: record of what a hundred and four point eighty meters
Speaker 1: or three hundred forty three feet in nine and three
Speaker 1: fourth snitches. Now again with all the caveats right, that's
Speaker 1: like a modern javelin and like and you're not aiming
Speaker 1: at an accuracy target. You're just throwing as far as
Speaker 1: you can exactly. Now, springboarding off of that, looking at
Speaker 1: modern modern auto laddle distance records, Uh, there's one set
Speaker 1: by Dave inga ball and he used a very modern
Speaker 1: take on the weapon, a carbon fiber auto ladle and
Speaker 1: an aluminum dart and he hurled it two hundred and
Speaker 1: fifty eight point sixty four meters or eight hundred forty
Speaker 1: eight point fifty six feet. Another record that our researcher
Speaker 1: Scott brought up was using a wooden auto loddele. The
Speaker 1: record is two hundred thirty point forty eight meters or
Speaker 1: seven hundred fifty six ft and this was set by
Speaker 1: Ilka Continajo from Finland using a like a birch auto
Speaker 1: loadele UH and UH a wooden dart. But in either case, though,
Speaker 1: I think it's pretty safe to say that we're talking
Speaker 1: about a technology that effectively doubles the throwing range, from
Speaker 1: going from a hand thrown spear to an auto laddle
Speaker 1: thrown spear. Yeah, and so that automatically tells you something.
Speaker 1: If just you're going for distance and you can go
Speaker 1: more than twice as far as you can hand throwing it, Now,
Speaker 1: the hunting scenario is going to be somewhat different than
Speaker 1: the javel and throwing scenario where you're just going for distance.
Speaker 1: Because the hunting scenario, accuracy becomes important and also other
Speaker 1: qualities that we might not think about as much, just
Speaker 1: like power and accuracy. Also, stealth becomes important in most
Speaker 1: hunting scenarios. However, when you take into account UH, you
Speaker 1: know the hunting scenario. For instance, Brian and Fagan in
Speaker 1: seventy great inventions of the Ancient World, a book that
Speaker 1: I have referenced before on the show. He writes that
Speaker 1: the audle ladil improves range by as much as fourfold,
Speaker 1: again stressing that you know, accuracy would come with practice. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's essential in all of this. It's not a like
Speaker 1: like any piece of you know, of ancient technology, Like
Speaker 1: a great deal of skill needed to be involved. You
Speaker 1: couldn't go from just you know, being an experienced spear
Speaker 1: thrower to picking up an auto laddel and getting it automatically.
Speaker 1: This would this change the way that you you utilize
Speaker 1: the weapon. Yeah, Now I want to talk about some
Speaker 1: characteristics of the use of the upen, like weighing some
Speaker 1: of these pros and cons about its mechanics. One thing
Speaker 1: I was reading was a report about a two thousand
Speaker 1: three physics paper by Richard A. Ball, which was called
Speaker 1: the Dynamics of Spear Throwing in the American Journal of Physics.
Speaker 1: And in this case he used high speed video to
Speaker 1: analyze the characteristics of auto ladle throws and create a
Speaker 1: computer model of auto ladal launching scenarios and so. Among
Speaker 1: the things he found was that the lever action of
Speaker 1: the autolattle allows regular throws to achieve speeds of more
Speaker 1: than a hundred kilometers per hour. And I wonder about
Speaker 1: this if this is a conservative or low end estimate,
Speaker 1: because elsewhere I've seen it claimed pretty regularly but without citation,
Speaker 1: that the auto lad will allows throws more in the
Speaker 1: range of a hundred miles per hour, which is more
Speaker 1: like a hundred and sixty kilometers per hour, which is
Speaker 1: a good bit faster. But then again, to bring support
Speaker 1: back to the lower end of the speed measurements, there
Speaker 1: was a different study. I found one by Whittaker, Pedigrew,
Speaker 1: and Grossmeire in uh Paleo America in seen and what
Speaker 1: they found was, quote, we measured numerous well practiced individuals
Speaker 1: using a variety of auto LTDAL equipment, comparing radar, gun, film,
Speaker 1: and chronograph measurements of dart velocity. The auto ladle is
Speaker 1: used in hunting and warfare probably did not accelerate darts
Speaker 1: much beyond thirty five ms per second or seventy eight
Speaker 1: miles per hour. So that that's uh honing back in
Speaker 1: on somewhere close to the you know, hundred kilometers per
Speaker 1: hour a little bit more, um, but that's nothing to
Speaker 1: sniff at. You get hit by a six foot dart
Speaker 1: at seventy eight miles per hour, and that's that's brutal. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's still gonna pierce the skin. That's still gonna pierce
Speaker 1: the hide. That's still gonna you know, work towards getting
Speaker 1: you where you want to go and bringing down a
Speaker 1: large animal. Yeah, and uh, to the point, more to
Speaker 1: the point of what you were talking about. With those
Speaker 1: pure distance measurements, Ball found you could achieve distances of
Speaker 1: more than two hundred meters easily. Uh, the distance will
Speaker 1: probably be a lot shorter again if you're going for
Speaker 1: hunting accuracy. Now, here's something interesting that is sort of
Speaker 1: an archaeological mystery that's been going on for a while.
Speaker 1: There are some audle addles that have been found that
Speaker 1: have a weight in the middle of the shaft called
Speaker 1: a banner stone, and archaeologists have debated what the purpose
Speaker 1: of this stone was. Some people thought it was decorative,
Speaker 1: some thought it actually provided a benefit to the throw,
Speaker 1: maybe that by increasing the weight of the auto addle
Speaker 1: it would allow you to throw harder. But Bob found
Speaker 1: with his model that increasing the weight of the auto
Speaker 1: addle did not have much effect on the speed of
Speaker 1: the dart. What did have an effect on the speed
Speaker 1: of the dart was the auto addles flexibility. If the
Speaker 1: shaft is flexible, it it can increase the speed of
Speaker 1: the throw by up to fifteen percent. This sort of
Speaker 1: makes sense to me, almost like adding a bit of
Speaker 1: the bow flex propulsion into the throw. So this is
Speaker 1: probably a good place to mention that archaeology the archaeological
Speaker 1: challenges of understanding the the the auto addle. Uh, you know,
Speaker 1: what remains of the ancient past do we have to
Speaker 1: to look at? You know, when we we we end
Speaker 1: up looking at things like stone weapon tips, which which
Speaker 1: generally preserved very well, mysterious stones such as the banner stone.
Speaker 1: You know, they're they're they're going to uh stand the
Speaker 1: test of time and when we're but when we're lucky,
Speaker 1: we find wooden remains that say, give us an idea
Speaker 1: of how long archaic humans have been crafting spears. But
Speaker 1: it's really easy to lose track of simple tools, and
Speaker 1: especially when they're made out of out of wood that
Speaker 1: just simply doesn't last. And it's a challenge then to
Speaker 1: figure try and figure out how they played into ancient traditions. Uh.
Speaker 1: You know, all of this is enhanced with the addleaddle
Speaker 1: because it's a it's a complex mechanical tool, and for
Speaker 1: much of the world it was abandoned prior to recorded history,
Speaker 1: So in many of these cases there are no traditions
Speaker 1: of the weapon passed on. Yeah, we talked about this
Speaker 1: in our episode with Dietrich Stout where we were looking
Speaker 1: at stone age technology as specifically a lot of stuff
Speaker 1: about like stone napping in the by faces and all that,
Speaker 1: where you know, he just pointed out it's not always
Speaker 1: easy to tell what an ancient tool was used for.
Speaker 1: You can often find a stone that appears to have
Speaker 1: been modified in some way, but what was it for?
Speaker 1: I don't know. Then you have to you have to
Speaker 1: start making a lot of inferences. Even worse the case
Speaker 1: when you've got wooden tools that don't necessarily last as
Speaker 1: long as stone tools do, and so it might be
Speaker 1: in some degraded form. But just as a side note,
Speaker 1: you mentioned the idea that um for much of the world,
Speaker 1: the addleaddle was abandoned prior to recorded history, and that
Speaker 1: is true in many cultures. But while the spear thrower
Speaker 1: was often abandoned by cultures after they acquired the bow
Speaker 1: and arrow, it wasn't always there were some cultures. For instance,
Speaker 1: I've read about the examples of some cultures in Mesoamerica
Speaker 1: and in the Arctic who held onto the spear thrower
Speaker 1: and even preferred it for some specialized uses after the
Speaker 1: bow was introduced. So it might be interesting to look
Speaker 1: at what some of those reasons for holding onto the
Speaker 1: autoladdle as a weapons propulsion technology after the introduction of
Speaker 1: the bow might be. So I was inspired by this question,
Speaker 1: and I was looking around, particularly as it regards the
Speaker 1: Aztec people and basically meso American people's were using the
Speaker 1: auto loadel. But then the bow was introduced by various
Speaker 1: northern tribes that invaded Mexico from the north, and the
Speaker 1: twelfth and thirteenth century ce UH several different tribal groups
Speaker 1: that were referred to um by some of the meso
Speaker 1: American peoples as being barbarians, which I guess is you know,
Speaker 1: often the case, right, those that invade you from outside
Speaker 1: are considered the barbarians, even in this case when they're
Speaker 1: bringing with them a more advanced ranged weapon, right because
Speaker 1: of the tensions stored in the bow, but not necessarily
Speaker 1: better for every single case, that's right. So I was
Speaker 1: looking at a blog the Aztec Vault by William Anderson,
Speaker 1: which is which is really good? I recommend it U
Speaker 1: And he was and he was referring to the work
Speaker 1: of anthropologist Ross Hassig and pointed out that that even
Speaker 1: that even you know, in the in the wake of
Speaker 1: the bow, uh, the the Aztec people then, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: are are rising up in power and they have they
Speaker 1: have taken the bow into their their military usage. But uh,
Speaker 1: as tech nobility still considered the bow a barbaric weapon
Speaker 1: and unbecoming of their use. But because it was believed
Speaker 1: to be introduced by people's who were perceived as enemies. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and then also just you know, the auto ladle was was,
Speaker 1: on the other hand, a revered weapon of the Aztec people,
Speaker 1: And so the nobility didn't want anything to do with
Speaker 1: the bow. The commoners they would be the ones to
Speaker 1: utilize the bow and arrow in their military campaigns. Uh.
Speaker 1: And you know, so they were they were all about
Speaker 1: embracing the use of the bow and arrow, but personally
Speaker 1: they were never going to use them. They were going
Speaker 1: to use the auto laddle. So yeah, the the elite
Speaker 1: class would do the auto ladle and commoners would use
Speaker 1: the large bows as well as slings in combat. Anderson
Speaker 1: writes quote Hassig argues that the addo ladle was likely
Speaker 1: used during the initial charge at the very beginning of
Speaker 1: an engagement. It had less range than the bow, but
Speaker 1: had far more power behind the projectile and was therefore
Speaker 1: more likely to penetrate armor or a shield. During the charge,
Speaker 1: warriors likely through a salvo of four or five darts
Speaker 1: that they carried loosely in their hand before they dropped
Speaker 1: the autoladdle and switched to a melee weapon. And by
Speaker 1: the way, I believe the melee weapon in question would
Speaker 1: have been the obsidian edged Maquahitle wooden sword club. Hopefully
Speaker 1: everyone's seen an image of one of these. But it
Speaker 1: is a just a terrific looking um kind of a
Speaker 1: hybrid of sword and club. You know, it's it's it's wooden.
Speaker 1: It kind of looks like some sort of like an
Speaker 1: ancient chainsaw. It's a brewer looking weapon. Uh uh so, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm just imagining the you know, the elite soldier class
Speaker 1: of the Aztecs rushing into battle using the autoladdle to
Speaker 1: hurl these these high powered spears into the front ranks
Speaker 1: and then dropping the auto addle all together and whipping
Speaker 1: out this sword. Uh. It's a pretty pretty terrifying scenario.
Speaker 1: But to be clear, that is the scholar Hassig's interpretation.
Speaker 1: He thinks probably happen. There's a lot and has has
Speaker 1: has written extensively on Aztec military and you know what
Speaker 1: their tactics seem to have been. But with all things
Speaker 1: regarding um, you know, pre contact meso America. Uh, you know,
Speaker 1: there's a lot we don't know, and there's a lot
Speaker 1: that we have to infer. But it seems like the
Speaker 1: continued use of the auto ladle among the Aztec people
Speaker 1: is a combination of sticking with the weapon out of
Speaker 1: cultural tradition, uh, and and with we should say, seemingly
Speaker 1: fewer centuries to abandon it outright, you know, like the
Speaker 1: culture still had some charge left in it, right, but
Speaker 1: also figuring out you know, it was a matter of
Speaker 1: figuring out how to best utilize it in the evolving
Speaker 1: face of battle alongside newer weapons, like defining what auto
Speaker 1: ladle can do that slings and bows and arrows cannot achieve. Yeah, Uh,
Speaker 1: now I have seen it. I did other other reasons
Speaker 1: beyond just like cultural attachment that people might have for
Speaker 1: preserving the use of the ottolattle even after the introduction
Speaker 1: of the bow. Like I was reading some reasons that
Speaker 1: have been cited by the World Auto Lttle Association, who
Speaker 1: point out, for example, you can use the odd laddle
Speaker 1: with one hand like that. Yeah, and if you're charging again,
Speaker 1: charging across the battlefield like that, that makes sense, right,
Speaker 1: you have the you have your your darts in one hand,
Speaker 1: the auto ltto on the other and uh, and that's
Speaker 1: all you need, right, So you got that. Another thing
Speaker 1: is that it could propel very heavy projectiles delivering more momentum. Uh.
Speaker 1: You know, you're comparing like this dart that's more like
Speaker 1: a spear on the odd laddle versus the typically smaller
Speaker 1: arrows you would shoot with the bow. And of course
Speaker 1: if you get with a hit with a heavier projectile,
Speaker 1: it's going to hurt you more. And in the case
Speaker 1: of the Aztecs, it's worth pointing out that like their
Speaker 1: adversaries would have had armor, they were not unarmored people.
Speaker 1: It was like fiber based, but it was still protection
Speaker 1: against these various weapons that were employed. Yeah, that's a
Speaker 1: good point. Uh. And then another interesting reason they said
Speaker 1: is that it is easier, apparently on an auto loaddle
Speaker 1: to attach a line to the dart for like reeling
Speaker 1: back of harpoons. So if you're out trying to harpoon
Speaker 1: seals or something like that, it might be easier to
Speaker 1: use an auto loaddle than a bow, in which case
Speaker 1: the line could maybe get in the way of shooting.
Speaker 1: I'm I'm assuming that's the reason. And it also might
Speaker 1: have something to do with the like the weight of
Speaker 1: the line, right, yeah. Yeah. And so one one more
Speaker 1: thing that I think is interesting is the question of
Speaker 1: how accurate you can be with an autoladdle, Because on
Speaker 1: one hand, it seems intuitive to me that not a
Speaker 1: lottle would be hard to use, like it would be
Speaker 1: hard to get it to aim right, It seems kind
Speaker 1: of unwieldy. But when you watch practice throwers with it,
Speaker 1: they look deadly accurate. Um. In fact, I was just
Speaker 1: reading about I was just reading an anecdotal report of
Speaker 1: this one guy who was you know, this is not
Speaker 1: somebody who's been using an autoladal his whole life. This
Speaker 1: is just a guy who who picked it up and
Speaker 1: started hunting with it in uh In, Florida. This was
Speaker 1: reported in by the Mississippi Clarion Ledger after he had
Speaker 1: killed an alligator with an autolto. Apparently this is like
Speaker 1: a really interesting story, but one part that stuck out
Speaker 1: to me was that the the guy who did it,
Speaker 1: his name was Ryan gil He said he was shocked
Speaker 1: how accurate the weapon was once he tried it, reporting
Speaker 1: that he found he could pretty easily hit soda cans
Speaker 1: at ten yards or about nine point one meters soda cans.
Speaker 1: I mean that's I don't know if I could hit
Speaker 1: those with a bow and arrow. I don't I don't
Speaker 1: know if I coul hit one with a rock depends
Speaker 1: um and and a lot of the evidence I found
Speaker 1: for this idea that you could actually be very accurate
Speaker 1: with the auto ladle, Like this story was just sort
Speaker 1: of anecdotal reports, but there is apparently some empirical research
Speaker 1: on accuracy on the accuracy of autoladile compared to say
Speaker 1: the bow. Uh. This one some arized by Whittaker at
Speaker 1: all from the paper I mentioned earlier. Quote accuracy is
Speaker 1: more easily achieved with a bow, although a skilled adoladolist
Speaker 1: can compete with an archer at short ranges. So it
Speaker 1: seems like in general, a bow is more accurate, but
Speaker 1: if you practice enough, you can get about as accurate
Speaker 1: with an autolattle at short range. There just appears to
Speaker 1: be maybe a stronger learning curve with the autolatdle. So
Speaker 1: to go back to the Aztec scenario, like again, this
Speaker 1: seems like the perfect usage for it because those those
Speaker 1: elite soldiers rushing in, they have to close that distance
Speaker 1: anyway they have to. They're having to traverse that area
Speaker 1: where the addolttle could be used. And again it's a
Speaker 1: one handed weapon, so that's like the perfect domain for
Speaker 1: its use. But also pointing out that you know this
Speaker 1: could also have you know, also there's perhaps a shock
Speaker 1: element to it as well, you know it's coming. Maybe
Speaker 1: it's kind of a terror weapon. This is the weapon
Speaker 1: of the ADS tech elite. Yeah, I can just picture
Speaker 1: it in my mind. I mean, there is something fearsome
Speaker 1: about the way that they're flying off these batons. When
Speaker 1: you when you hurl it, and you know, the rotation
Speaker 1: of the body is you do, it's a it is
Speaker 1: a a menacing movement, let's say. And I you know,
Speaker 1: I didn't look and I didn't read any research on this,
Speaker 1: but it also comes to mind that if you want
Speaker 1: to close the distance with a ranged weapon. Um. I
Speaker 1: mean the more traditional version of this you see in
Speaker 1: other cultures is, of course you have a mounted archer.
Speaker 1: But there's no they wouldn't have had horses in in
Speaker 1: Menico America pre contact, so that you know, the the
Speaker 1: Aztecs were not using horses in battle. They were they
Speaker 1: were all on foot. And so again another reason perhaps
Speaker 1: the auto loaddle was again like this was the perfect
Speaker 1: place for its use, the perfect time and place for
Speaker 1: its continued usage in the military scenario. That's a good point. Now,
Speaker 1: there are other comparisons between the bow and the auto
Speaker 1: loaddle that I was also reading about in Whittaker at
Speaker 1: all from so uh the authors here mentioned that first
Speaker 1: of all, an arrow does travel faster than at a ladle,
Speaker 1: so it reaches its target in less time, and it
Speaker 1: gives the target less time to react and dodge out
Speaker 1: of the path of the dart or arrow. So that's
Speaker 1: a pretty clear bow advantage. You close the distance faster
Speaker 1: and there's less time to react. Um. Also, you can
Speaker 1: fire a bow from all kinds of positions, sitting, crouch,
Speaker 1: standing on top of a horse. While it's more difficult
Speaker 1: to do that with an auto lattle. I have seen images,
Speaker 1: for example, of um of one of the you Pick
Speaker 1: Seal hunters who's gotten auto ladle out in a in
Speaker 1: a boat and he seems to be in a sitting position.
Speaker 1: I don't know if he would sort of stand up
Speaker 1: or get up on his knees to hurl it, but
Speaker 1: he's holding it as if he's ready to throw, and
Speaker 1: he's sitting in the boat. But it is generally true
Speaker 1: that to get the best kind of leverage on the
Speaker 1: auto ladle throw, you probably want to be standing. Another
Speaker 1: point in comparison is that shooting a bow requires less
Speaker 1: movement of the body as a whole, which means it's
Speaker 1: less likely to alert prey. You're moving less, you're making
Speaker 1: less sound. Yeah, you're gonna be a lot more stealthy
Speaker 1: and against health is going to be is going to
Speaker 1: be a key factor in any of these hunting scenarios
Speaker 1: for sure. Though then again, I will say to come
Speaker 1: back on the other side. When you watch some of
Speaker 1: these skilled autolatalists using the weapon, one thing that's very
Speaker 1: striking about it is how quiet it is. There's just
Speaker 1: kind of this wolf of the of the you know,
Speaker 1: if you hear the stick at all, and the dart
Speaker 1: just sails silently until it pounds into its target, and
Speaker 1: then that's the first real noise you hear. But anyway,
Speaker 1: so the authors mentioned quote, these factors could be important
Speaker 1: for individual hunting of alert prey and in warfare. However,
Speaker 1: variations in hunting tactics such as hunting in groups and
Speaker 1: driving prey into approachable positions, as well as tactics in warfare,
Speaker 1: could have kept autoladdles effective and useful even after the
Speaker 1: introduction of the bow. So I think on the other
Speaker 1: end of the spectrum. While bows are faster and more stealthy,
Speaker 1: autoladdles can launch heavier darts, and they can be powerful
Speaker 1: in situations where say, a prey animal is not aware
Speaker 1: or a few or is cornered or surrounded or something.
Speaker 1: All right, we're gonna take one more break, and when
Speaker 1: we come back, we're going to discuss the legacy of
Speaker 1: the audle laddle. Alright, we're back. So how important was
Speaker 1: the auto laddel in human history? Well, you know, I
Speaker 1: feel like we've we've we've driven home already that we're
Speaker 1: talking about a means of hunting. So it's a means
Speaker 1: of survival, a means of acquiring necessary sustenance for for
Speaker 1: one's self and one's people. Um. But in that that book,
Speaker 1: the seventy Great Inventions of the Ancient World are brought
Speaker 1: by Brian and Fagan. He points out that you know,
Speaker 1: our oldest examples, you know, known examples of the autol
Speaker 1: will take us back to the Ice Age when humans
Speaker 1: would have used them on wild horses and reindeer. And
Speaker 1: so the technology, if it improves your odds of landing
Speaker 1: such prey, this is meat that could prove vital, especially
Speaker 1: if if cured in autumn for the long winter months ahead.
Speaker 1: So you know, you could I think you could make
Speaker 1: a case for, like, Yeah, any technological advancement in acquiring
Speaker 1: protein during this time, you know, could have played you know,
Speaker 1: an important or even essential role in ensuring the survival
Speaker 1: of the species. Yeah. I do think, uh, hunting of
Speaker 1: megafauna was an important part of Pleistocene survival. They've got
Speaker 1: a lot of meat on them, but they're also very
Speaker 1: often they're dangerous to get close to, and they're hard
Speaker 1: to kill. And there they might be tough, and they
Speaker 1: might be you know, good at getting away from you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so the auto ladle was important. We already we already
Speaker 1: mentioned the uh, you know, the various decorations that we
Speaker 1: see on some of these remaining auto ladle and whether
Speaker 1: these were autolattle that were you actually used or they're
Speaker 1: purely decorative. Either way, they show that it was a
Speaker 1: revered item, that it held an important role in their
Speaker 1: culture at the time. That clearly does seem to be
Speaker 1: the case with some of these highly decorated ones. On
Speaker 1: the other hand, an interesting thing I've seen when when
Speaker 1: you watch some of these, like uh say wild hunting
Speaker 1: a lot of lists. Uh. One thing I've seen, at
Speaker 1: least pointed out by a couple of them, is that
Speaker 1: it's not that hard to make one of these in
Speaker 1: the field. I mean you can. You can not even
Speaker 1: have to take your weapon with you. You go out
Speaker 1: into the field and you find the right trees, and
Speaker 1: you can make yourself a not a lottle on some
Speaker 1: darts pretty quickly. This would have made far more sense
Speaker 1: in the movie Predator. Remember where Arnold Schwarzenegger's character what
Speaker 1: was his name, where he has the scene where he
Speaker 1: makes a giant makes it makes a high power bow
Speaker 1: and arrow out of just stuff he finds in the jungle,
Speaker 1: which I don't I don't know. I'm sure somebody has
Speaker 1: sort of mythbusted this to some extent, but it always
Speaker 1: seemed unlikely, and and and and then in later so
Speaker 1: you know films, you know, lower budget films that were
Speaker 1: inspired by this, you often see characters creating even crappier
Speaker 1: looking bows and arrows out of out of the stuff
Speaker 1: they find in the woods. Whereas, yeah, if he if
Speaker 1: Dutch had made a not a lottle and he's that
Speaker 1: to battle the predator, Uh, then that would have been awesome.
Speaker 1: Why I wish that had happened. I fully agree we
Speaker 1: should petition them to go back and make the movie
Speaker 1: again fix this problem. Yes, um, but you know, by
Speaker 1: the way it was talking about like the bow and
Speaker 1: arrow coming in and to what extent it replaced the
Speaker 1: audle laddle Um not not everyone jumped on the bow
Speaker 1: and arrow bandwagon. Uh. Fagan also points out that Australian
Speaker 1: Aborigines never took up the bow and arrow. Uh. They
Speaker 1: stuck with other arranged weapon techniques, despite in some cases
Speaker 1: definitely being in touch with other people's that used bows
Speaker 1: and arrows, such as the Tories Straight Islanders. Um, speaking
Speaker 1: of Australia, another ranged weapon. I'm gonna throw this in
Speaker 1: because I don't know that we could get a full
Speaker 1: episode out of it. Maybe we could. But the boomerang,
Speaker 1: the boomerang is another range weapon of note, in one
Speaker 1: with a very incomplete history. But we know it dates
Speaker 1: back at least ten thousand years. That's the oldest evidence
Speaker 1: we found. But as a wooden weapon, you know, very
Speaker 1: few archaeological examples present themselves. And uh and by the way,
Speaker 1: but we primarily associate this blunt ranged weapon with Australia,
Speaker 1: but other parts of the world have produced artifacts that
Speaker 1: are at least arguably possibly boomerangs. Uh so, yeah, boomerang
Speaker 1: technology another ranged weapon that we sometimes forget about. Now.
Speaker 1: In addition to the cultures that have continued use of
Speaker 1: the oddle attle into the present day for hunting, such
Speaker 1: as the example of some of the you pick people,
Speaker 1: as we mentioned, and I think I've read about some people, uh,
Speaker 1: some indigenous Australian people's doing this. Uh. There there are
Speaker 1: also just tons of people who have taken up use
Speaker 1: of the audle lottle recreationally. It's something that has I
Speaker 1: think gotten I don't know that it seems to have
Speaker 1: been a surge in interest in in this in the
Speaker 1: past few decades. Oh yeah, again, there are lots of
Speaker 1: YouTube videos, and I definitely recommend anyone who's interested in
Speaker 1: seeing one of these actions to check out a few.
Speaker 1: Make sure you check out a few, does you know,
Speaker 1: sort of find the ones um. But there's also, for instance,
Speaker 1: the World Autolto Association. Uh you can find them at
Speaker 1: World out a laddle dot org aut Alado. By the way,
Speaker 1: if you're not aware from the title of the episode,
Speaker 1: if you haven't seen it in print, uh, it is
Speaker 1: a t L A t L. I think I might
Speaker 1: have said that earlier, but if I didn't, just just
Speaker 1: in case, we're gonna drive that home. So that's World
Speaker 1: a t l a t l dot org. And they
Speaker 1: highly they track events and projects across the United States
Speaker 1: and parts of Europe. Uh. So we're talking about just
Speaker 1: you know, casual throws, you know, a chance to to
Speaker 1: try out on auto ladle uh you know, school children,
Speaker 1: scout groups, etcetera. Serious competitions among a lot of enthusiasts,
Speaker 1: as well as classes about how to make and not
Speaker 1: a loto or use it. UM as far as I
Speaker 1: can tell. However, there's no Atlanta based organization, which is
Speaker 1: a shame because that would be what the Atlanta Autolatdal
Speaker 1: Association a t l A t l A t l Uh.
Speaker 1: But hey, maybe it's out there and I just didn't
Speaker 1: find it. Or maybe maybe you listening out there in
Speaker 1: the Atlanta area you will, you'll you'll start it and
Speaker 1: uh invite Joe and I to go check it out.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to find the outcast. Joke in here is
Speaker 1: like the people who remember of that organization or the
Speaker 1: Audle Audle a t Aliens. That could work, That could work. Now,
Speaker 1: we mentioned Dietrich Stout earlier, who we interviewed on Stuff
Speaker 1: to Blow Your Mind the other podcast about about about
Speaker 1: stone age technology, uh and particularly the hand acts. But
Speaker 1: one of the areas we got into discussing him was like,
Speaker 1: what is the connection between um, these tools that we're
Speaker 1: using and the way we're manipulating them and building them
Speaker 1: and uh in the human mind? Oh yeah, Now, he
Speaker 1: was talking about some ideas about possible connections between I think, uh,
Speaker 1: the language modules in the brain and the ways that
Speaker 1: we construct stone tools. They're also just interesting things to
Speaker 1: think about. I was looking at a paper um from
Speaker 1: Frontiers and Sidecology in eighteen that's just charting a connection
Speaker 1: between the development of different types of weapons technology across
Speaker 1: the human history. You know, a lot of it is
Speaker 1: like a stone Age human history and the development of
Speaker 1: different levels of causal cognition in humans, meaning like you know,
Speaker 1: showing that we understand causes and effects beyond our immediate
Speaker 1: moment and physical body projected across space and time into
Speaker 1: the future. And it's interesting to think about, like the
Speaker 1: different weapons technologies coming along over time, always just extending
Speaker 1: farther and farther out in time and space from the body.
Speaker 1: So you've got first, like you know, thrusting spears that
Speaker 1: extend the reach of the body, and then throwing spears
Speaker 1: that extend it further, and then the addle addel which
Speaker 1: extends it even further, but also adds in these abstract
Speaker 1: elements of sort of inanimate causal understanding, like you understand
Speaker 1: that the lever in your hand will increase the power
Speaker 1: of the throw even though the spear is no longer
Speaker 1: in your hand when that happens. And then of course
Speaker 1: you've got ideas about like stored energy and the tension
Speaker 1: of a bow and then even beyond that, ideas that
Speaker 1: go beyond beyond the present moment, by say, using poisoned
Speaker 1: arrow tips, you know, that's extending the causality of the
Speaker 1: weapon further into time. And basically the authors here just
Speaker 1: point out that, you know, this further and further and
Speaker 1: further extension away in time and space from the physical body, uh,
Speaker 1: mirrors the timeline of development of all these technologies. And
Speaker 1: so I thought that was kind of interesting, interesting, And
Speaker 1: then of course we also have to think about the
Speaker 1: name of it makes me think too about how our
Speaker 1: our tools end up being metaphors for our understanding of
Speaker 1: the world. So like the the the arrow itself, I mean,
Speaker 1: we think about like the arrow of time, um, you know,
Speaker 1: to to what extent of these various technologies end up
Speaker 1: allowing us, giving us the sort of the the metaphorical
Speaker 1: fodder to then have these more complex thoughts about how
Speaker 1: the world works. This is something that comes up a
Speaker 1: lot on this show about like the most fundamental technologies
Speaker 1: end up becoming so much more than technology. They become
Speaker 1: the shapes with which we envision abstract elements of our lives,
Speaker 1: you know, like the the wheel becoming so much more
Speaker 1: than just a transportation technology that it's like one of
Speaker 1: our most fruitful metaphors in all of language. And arrows
Speaker 1: are another thing like that, arrows and spears. Think about
Speaker 1: how much there's this, uh, the the idea of missing
Speaker 1: the mark or being on target, you know, like with
Speaker 1: an arrow or spear. You're you're talking about trying to
Speaker 1: hit your target at arranged distance. I think about how
Speaker 1: in the theological domain, I believe the word in Greek
Speaker 1: that's like used for sin in Christianity. The Greek word
Speaker 1: is hamartia, which literally means to miss the mark, as
Speaker 1: if like you know, like your spear does not connect
Speaker 1: with its target. I know that this reminds me of
Speaker 1: the episode we did about Cupid's arrow for stuff to
Speaker 1: blow your mind, and uh, you know, you think about
Speaker 1: what it is to be hit with an arrow, or
Speaker 1: to see one hit with an arrow. It is for
Speaker 1: this physical attack to come perhaps even out of nowhere,
Speaker 1: like you don't see where it launched from. It's just
Speaker 1: like the arrow appears lodged in the individual. The wound
Speaker 1: just happens, which is you know, probably you know, it
Speaker 1: seems seems close to the metaphor that's being made for
Speaker 1: being struck by love? Is that? Like, I don't know
Speaker 1: where it came from, but now it's here, and I'm
Speaker 1: bleeding the new tagline of this podcast. Now it's here,
Speaker 1: and I'm bleeding every time there's a new episode. Well,
Speaker 1: the thing too about just how attractive the idea of
Speaker 1: of certainly the bow and arrow, but then perhaps to
Speaker 1: some extent, the spear, but mostly the bow and arrow.
Speaker 1: How we keep coming back to that in our not
Speaker 1: only our stories and our myths, but our popular media. Like,
Speaker 1: think of all the things that are popular right now,
Speaker 1: almost all of them have a bow and arrow in them.
Speaker 1: A Game of Thrones full of bows and arrows, and
Speaker 1: even spear throws, ridiculous spear throws. They have no basis
Speaker 1: on physics. Um, but then you look at say the
Speaker 1: Marvel movies, you have an archer in in there as well.
Speaker 1: I forgot about that. What Hawkeye? The DC World they
Speaker 1: have a green arrow and that's been going on for
Speaker 1: multiple seasons. Wait is it not green lantern? No, No,
Speaker 1: there's green arrow. Oh there's both of them. Yeah, they
Speaker 1: got two green people, they do, and green arrow has
Speaker 1: is actually archery based, and they're like supporting characters that
Speaker 1: also have bow and arrows. So and even just like
Speaker 1: you know, you, like you bring a child to a
Speaker 1: Renaissance festival, they do the thing where they're shooting the
Speaker 1: bow and arrows like, and the child wants to try
Speaker 1: it out like they they say, see it and they
Speaker 1: want to do it like we have a connection. As
Speaker 1: if there isn't some sort of an innate connection that
Speaker 1: we have with these technologies. Man if Marvel thinks it's
Speaker 1: a superpower to be able to shoot a bow and arrow, good,
Speaker 1: imagine what they would have thought of, like an army
Speaker 1: of archers. These are all superheroes. I wonder if there
Speaker 1: are any superheroes that use aut of lodels or indeed,
Speaker 1: is there a scene in a film, uh that that
Speaker 1: actually depicts a little loaddle you? Perhaps I'm forgetting one. Um.
Speaker 1: I know there have been, you know there there have
Speaker 1: been some notable films that deal with you know, pre
Speaker 1: contact meso America or or you know, we're more more
Speaker 1: ancient people's But I am not recalling a good autolatal
Speaker 1: scene offhand. Yeah, I mean, I don't say this to
Speaker 1: glorify violence, but as far as a like a mechanical invention,
Speaker 1: it is a beautiful weapon. So if you if you
Speaker 1: know of any examples of this, please right in and
Speaker 1: let us know. I would love to know what movie
Speaker 1: I need to check out to see hopefully an accurate
Speaker 1: depiction of how an auto ladle is used, or hey,
Speaker 1: have you used an autolattle, whether you know, whether it's
Speaker 1: like a part of your cultural heritage, or whether you
Speaker 1: just experimented with one. We'd like to hear about that. Oh,
Speaker 1: I know, I know some listeners out there have used
Speaker 1: an auto lottle. In fact, I'm gonna go ahead and
Speaker 1: I'm gonna guess. I'm gonna guess that we hear from.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say five people who have used on autoladle.
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna may be off on that, but I'm
Speaker 1: gonna just guess five people, and well we'll find out
Speaker 1: in a future listening episode if I'm accurate on that.
Speaker 1: Here's something I'm curious about from people who have used
Speaker 1: in ludel attle. What was the experience of accuracy like,
Speaker 1: especially when compared to your intuitions before using it for
Speaker 1: the first time. Was it easier than you would have
Speaker 1: expected to hit your target to hit your target with it,
Speaker 1: or was it harder than you would have expected, right,
Speaker 1: and then can you compare it to other arranged weapon
Speaker 1: uses like, for instance, have had you used a bow before,
Speaker 1: and how would you compare it to the experience of
Speaker 1: using a bow or the experience of throwing a spear, um,
Speaker 1: you know, outright without any kind of mechanical aid. So
Speaker 1: there you have it, the audle addle. Uh. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: a really fun one to look into, in part because
Speaker 1: I feel like the audle addle is often kind of
Speaker 1: you know, glossed over in our in our histories and
Speaker 1: and you know, even in our museum sometimes. And in
Speaker 1: part of that too is you know that we have
Speaker 1: not historically had that great of an understanding of what
Speaker 1: these were and how they were utilized. Um. But hey, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's always fun to discuss what we can't help but
Speaker 1: discuss military technologies along the way, uh, and or hunting technologies,
Speaker 1: you know, weapons. So I it does make me wonder
Speaker 1: what other weapons would you like to hear us cover
Speaker 1: on invention? Or how about armor? Would you like to
Speaker 1: hear us do an entire episode on body armor and
Speaker 1: how that has uh, where that originates, and how that
Speaker 1: has been implemented in different cultures? Around the world and
Speaker 1: and how it changes humanity. Robert and I were talking
Speaker 1: about armor before we came in today. I think that's
Speaker 1: a good candidate coming up. All right, Well, if you
Speaker 1: want to check out more episodes of Invention, you can
Speaker 1: head on over to invention pod dot com. That's the
Speaker 1: that's the main website for the show. You can also
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Speaker 1: helps things out immensely huge things as always to our
Speaker 1: excellent audio producer Terry Harrison. If you'd like to get
Speaker 1: in touch with us with feedback on this episode or
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