1 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: Welcome to Invention, a production of I Heart Radio. Hey, 2 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,119 Speaker 1: welcome to Invention. My name is Robert lamp and I'm 3 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:15,360 Speaker 1: Joe Mccormickin today, we wanted to have a little discussion 4 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:19,960 Speaker 1: about how certain types of weapons going way back into history, 5 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:25,440 Speaker 1: and especially projectile weapons, changed the human animal. That's right, 6 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 1: But I mean put yourself as much as is possible 7 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:32,600 Speaker 1: in the mindset of our prehistoric ancestors. You know, we're 8 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:34,600 Speaker 1: you know there they were. They were scroungers, you know, 9 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 1: leveraging a large primate brain to forage sustenance from roots 10 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 1: and berries, uh, you know, from from the meat they 11 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:45,640 Speaker 1: learned to catch, scavenge or steel from larger predators. And 12 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:48,279 Speaker 1: key to all of this is distance. I think it's 13 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:50,240 Speaker 1: easy to take this for granted, and especially those of 14 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 1: us who are removed from any kind of hunting tradition. Well, 15 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:56,320 Speaker 1: I've got a story about this. Actually, for the first 16 00:00:56,360 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 1: time in my life, the other day, somehow I got 17 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 1: within like twenty feet of a deer. I was just 18 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:05,679 Speaker 1: out walking my dog along a forest path here in town, 19 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:09,680 Speaker 1: you know, a park here in town. Um, and uh 20 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 1: that I was completely blind to it. Suddenly the dog's 21 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 1: attention goes, you know, rigid, This whole body is just 22 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 1: full of electric tension, and his ears are up and 23 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:21,560 Speaker 1: he's frozen, and I'm like, what's going on? And then 24 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 1: the deer bolts, and the deer had been, you know, 25 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 1: maybe less than twenty feet away from my body, and 26 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:29,560 Speaker 1: I'd been just blind to it. It completely blended in 27 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 1: with the leaves and the trees and all that. But 28 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:34,759 Speaker 1: what it actually made me realize is I never get 29 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 1: that close to a deer. Normally, at long distances away, 30 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:40,480 Speaker 1: they hear you moving and they bolt. You don't get 31 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:43,400 Speaker 1: anywhere that close to him. Yeah, And I mean, certainly 32 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 1: there are places where you can you can go where 33 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 1: the wildlife has been desensitized to human presence, such as 34 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 1: say you go to Yosemite National Park, you know, or 35 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 1: or where you go to the Grand Canyon, and you're 36 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 1: in some of those high tourist areas where the animals 37 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 1: are not in danger, and therefore you can get i'll 38 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 1: alarmingly close to say an enormous elk or a Grand 39 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:06,240 Speaker 1: Canyon squirrel. Oh yeah, the Grand Canyon squirrel. Well, I 40 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 1: mean that highlights the other thing is if people have 41 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:13,120 Speaker 1: been illicitly feeding these animals, which in general you shouldn't do. Yes, yeah, 42 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 1: do not feed the bears. But yeah, but I think 43 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:20,840 Speaker 1: this this drives home that like, uh, during this time, uh, 44 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:22,960 Speaker 1: you know, they're there are all these animals at large 45 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 1: in the world. But how many can you get close to? 46 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:29,839 Speaker 1: How many can you get close to enough to potentially 47 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 1: kill in order to acquire their protein? Um, it's gonna, 48 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:37,800 Speaker 1: you know, depend you know, situationally, it's going to depend 49 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:40,359 Speaker 1: you know, is this an injured animal? Is this an 50 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:43,359 Speaker 1: animal that was killed by another predator? But a lot 51 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 1: of it is going to come down to like human skill. 52 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 1: Uh can you can you stalk this creature? Can you 53 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:52,400 Speaker 1: be stealthy enough to close the distance between yourself and 54 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 1: the protein? And there are some theories about like the 55 00:02:55,400 --> 00:03:00,120 Speaker 1: the ability of endurance running in humans, that endurance runing, 56 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:04,519 Speaker 1: our ability at marathon ng and stuff is to compensate 57 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:06,960 Speaker 1: for the fact that a short distances almost all prey 58 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 1: animals can outrun us. But that with a lot of them, 59 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 1: we can run for longer than they can, and after 60 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:15,280 Speaker 1: they tire out and can't go anymore, we can finally 61 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:16,840 Speaker 1: catch up with them. Yeah, It's it's kind of like 62 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 1: the terminator approach. But this is yeah, this is part 63 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:23,160 Speaker 1: of our human hunting heritage, is that this was one 64 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 1: way we were like, well, I can't I can't out 65 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:29,040 Speaker 1: battle the animal, I can't outrun it. But I can 66 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:31,840 Speaker 1: be persistent and I can I can fix my mind 67 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:34,560 Speaker 1: on it, and I can just never stop until it 68 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 1: wears out. But even then, if you're getting close range 69 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 1: with even a lot of prey animals, I mean not 70 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 1: to speak of predators who might be preying on us, 71 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 1: but say like a large bovid type animal, you know, 72 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 1: a bison or a or a large stag or a moose. 73 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 1: You get close to one of those things and it 74 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 1: can hurt you. Oh yeah, I mean you're talking about 75 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 1: either being gored by the point of end or or 76 00:03:57,160 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 1: kicked by the other end. And these can these can 77 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 1: be fatal blows or gores in either case. Uh. And 78 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 1: then yeah, the predators as well, like these are animals 79 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 1: that are far more adept at closing the distance between 80 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 1: their hunger and the shape of you know, a lowly 81 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 1: primate for example. Uh, A primate that you know, for 82 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 1: all its tricks of stone and stick and fire, is 83 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 1: still helpless against an adversary or even a you know, 84 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:24,920 Speaker 1: like you said, a large prey animal if there is 85 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 1: no distance left and no technological advantage exactly. And then 86 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:31,160 Speaker 1: we're talking about a time here when there were no 87 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 1: bows and arrows yet, so we had we had rocks 88 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 1: that could be thrown and uh, and this is being 89 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 1: one of of the rocks many specialized roles that we've 90 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:43,839 Speaker 1: created for it, um, you know, and because we had 91 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:47,120 Speaker 1: pretty dexterous hands, right uh. And we're pretty good at 92 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:49,280 Speaker 1: throwing things, but there's only so much you can do 93 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 1: with a rock. And then of course there's the spear. 94 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:54,839 Speaker 1: The spear. The spear is kind of a game changer, 95 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:58,159 Speaker 1: right yeah. I mean the spear is it's a tree 96 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:00,920 Speaker 1: that we've made into a horn, right or into an 97 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:04,839 Speaker 1: antler or a great tooth um. And uh. The thing is, 98 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 1: when we're looking back at a prehistoric humans and even 99 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 1: their their predecessors, you know, these were things that were 100 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 1: already in use. The spear had had been in use 101 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 1: by these creatures and those that came before them for 102 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands of years um. And we should also, 103 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 1: I think make a distinction between the the thrusting spear, 104 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 1: which is used for stabbing and the throwing spear. Right, yeah, 105 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:30,920 Speaker 1: I mean either way, we're talking about an incredible piece 106 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 1: of technology because it enables them to hunt prey and 107 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 1: defend against predators that their ancestors could have rarely engaged. 108 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 1: Uh and um, you know there were there were limits 109 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 1: either way. So if you're using it as a thrusting tool, uh, 110 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 1: you know, it's it's still pretty impressive, right because you're 111 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:50,159 Speaker 1: talking about say a six to seven foot spear, But 112 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 1: then you still have the big distance problem about getting 113 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:55,680 Speaker 1: close to a prey animal that might be dangerous or 114 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 1: just impossible because it's outrunning you. Right, Yeah, So six 115 00:05:59,880 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 1: to seven feet you can you know, thrusting it, you're 116 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 1: adding to the length of that spear essentially. But unless 117 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:10,920 Speaker 1: you are just super lucky or just or skillful beyond words, 118 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 1: that one spear is probably not going to be enough 119 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:15,720 Speaker 1: to do it, or you're gonna miss or you're gonna 120 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:17,920 Speaker 1: hit the wrong spot. So you know, you're gonna have 121 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:21,480 Speaker 1: to depend on all these other bits of primate trickery 122 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 1: at your disposal. You're gonna have to depend on the 123 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:27,680 Speaker 1: stealth numbers, some sort of strategy. Um, you know, multiple 124 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:31,160 Speaker 1: spear thrusters and even then you're awfully close to a 125 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 1: dangerous animal. And even when you're getting into throne spears, 126 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:39,200 Speaker 1: you know, essentially a javelin, even then you're there are 127 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:42,919 Speaker 1: limits to to the range and you're still going to 128 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:45,000 Speaker 1: be faced with a similar situation. You still have to 129 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 1: get you have to close the distance enough to utilize 130 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:50,159 Speaker 1: the weapon, and then you need to be able to 131 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:55,800 Speaker 1: close the deal without the creature fleeing again, leaving you 132 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:58,040 Speaker 1: in the dust and perhaps being picked off by some 133 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 1: other predator that's more skillful than you, that can take 134 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:04,120 Speaker 1: advantage of the wounded. Yeah, that's all right. But even 135 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 1: given all of these limitations, we shouldn't underestimate the power 136 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:10,120 Speaker 1: of the spirit. It's sort of changed what kind of 137 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 1: predator we are thinking about before projectile weapons. You are, 138 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 1: you are so limited just just by reach, and the 139 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 1: spear that that is thrown is a kind of revolutionary 140 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 1: update of the body schema. You know, it's it's like, 141 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:26,960 Speaker 1: you know, it's a tooth that leaves the body. Yeah, 142 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 1: which is you know, sort of the you know, you 143 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:33,000 Speaker 1: see that kind of advancement sometimes in the in the 144 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:36,120 Speaker 1: in the biological world. But yeah, for the moment, for 145 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 1: certainly for a primate. This is a new skill altogether. UH. 146 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 1: And it's a but it's a pretty it's a pretty 147 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 1: old invention. UM the spirit itself when we try to 148 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:48,120 Speaker 1: date it. While the remains of wooden spears have been 149 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 1: found in Hanover, Germany that date back to four hundred 150 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:54,680 Speaker 1: thousand years ago, and we're talking between six and seven 151 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 1: point five foot javelins here, UM, so the idea is 152 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 1: that they would have been thrown weapons. UH. The technology 153 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 1: UM is even older, though the weapons don't always survive UM. 154 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 1: For instance, they fossilized rhinoceros shoulder blade UM was found 155 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:13,400 Speaker 1: in Box Grove, England, and it had a projectile wound 156 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 1: in it, and that's been dated to about five hundred 157 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:18,520 Speaker 1: thousand years ago. And this, incidentally, this wouldn't have been 158 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:22,840 Speaker 1: the work of of of modern Homo sapiens. This would 159 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 1: have been the work of Homo heidelberg insis, which was 160 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:30,320 Speaker 1: an immediate process that predecessed there to Homo sapiens. And UH. 161 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 1: In terms of how these spirlit spears were composed, stone 162 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:37,720 Speaker 1: pointed spears date back at least three hundred thousand years 163 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:42,679 Speaker 1: to Neanderthals and archaic Homo sapiens but five hundred thousand 164 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 1: year old deposits at cathu Pan in South Africa have 165 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:51,000 Speaker 1: presented evidence of their use among Homo heidelberg insis. So again, 166 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 1: the spear is ultimately more ancient than even our species. Now, 167 00:08:56,800 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 1: the idea of a weapon that you can throw, especially 168 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:01,079 Speaker 1: like a spear that you can throw, that's sort of 169 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 1: an upgrade on just throwing a rock or even throwing 170 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:06,439 Speaker 1: like a byface. So you know, like the hand axes 171 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:08,559 Speaker 1: that we've talked about, um, that you might have been 172 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 1: able to create a sharp edge on, and we don't 173 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:12,440 Speaker 1: know exactly what those were always for. We don't know 174 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:15,960 Speaker 1: that they were necessarily thrown weapons. Um. But but throwing 175 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 1: a spear is definitely an upgrade. I mean that that 176 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:21,600 Speaker 1: adds a new dimension of lethality to to the reach 177 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 1: of your body in a hunting or fighting context. But 178 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:28,280 Speaker 1: you're still somewhat limited in range there, because have you 179 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:31,360 Speaker 1: ever tried to throw a seven foot spear? How far 180 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:33,760 Speaker 1: can you throw it? I mean, I've thrown a broom before, 181 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 1: but it's hardly the same thing. Uh Well, I mean 182 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 1: you probably know intuitively that you're not going to achieve 183 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:42,960 Speaker 1: the same kind of range. Uh and speed of throw 184 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:45,120 Speaker 1: with a with a hand thrown spear that you can 185 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 1: with say a bow and arrow, right, and you can 186 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 1: go a lot farther and shoot a lot faster, uh, 187 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:52,840 Speaker 1: with an arrow and an attention bow than you can 188 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:55,439 Speaker 1: just trying to hurl a rod out of your hand. Right. 189 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 1: And we'll get into some of the comparative ranges as 190 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 1: we proceed here. But uh, in terms of just looking 191 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:04,880 Speaker 1: at a throne spear, you have to take into account 192 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 1: the math of range and accuracy. Right, Um, But consider 193 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 1: the modern Olympic record for javelin throwing, which we might 194 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:16,120 Speaker 1: consider sort of the peak of distant spear throwing technology 195 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 1: because we're talking about utilizing him in the cases you know, 196 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:22,000 Speaker 1: modern designs, modern materials, and also this is generally a 197 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:25,320 Speaker 1: situation where one is is not trying to take down 198 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:29,319 Speaker 1: a living animal. Uh, You're you're just throwing for distance sake. 199 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:33,760 Speaker 1: But the the the record that I ran across was 200 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:37,559 Speaker 1: one hundred and four point eighty meters or three hundred 201 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:40,720 Speaker 1: and forty three feet nine and three four inches. And 202 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:43,320 Speaker 1: this was a record set, an Olympic record set by 203 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 1: East Germany's Yui Han in En four. And this is 204 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:49,840 Speaker 1: actually a throw that forced a redesign in an Olympic 205 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:54,320 Speaker 1: javelins to keep them within the safe confines of the field. Um. 206 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 1: As such, he's the only Olympic javelin thrower to break 207 00:10:57,240 --> 00:11:00,679 Speaker 1: the hundred meter barrier. But as we're saying this, uh, 208 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:03,160 Speaker 1: this is something that is a modern situation, brought about 209 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:05,960 Speaker 1: by the fact of modern design and materials of this 210 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 1: javelin and the fact that he's purely going for distance. 211 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 1: This is not an attempt to hit something and wound 212 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 1: it with accuracy. Right, Yeah, there's a difference between say, 213 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:18,240 Speaker 1: hitting the broadside of a barn and then hitting the 214 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 1: broadside of Satan mammoth, and and again with the mind 215 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 1: of not only hitting it and saying, hey, look how 216 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:26,280 Speaker 1: great I am at throwing a javelin. No, you're you're 217 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:29,240 Speaker 1: not great at throwing a javelin in the prehistoric context 218 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:32,760 Speaker 1: unless you and those working with you can bring the 219 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 1: animal down, because ultimately it's all about survival. But again, 220 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 1: the spear was a game changer and it was around 221 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 1: for a long time. I mean, we're we're not really 222 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:43,200 Speaker 1: even really going to get into military usage all that 223 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:45,760 Speaker 1: much in this episode, but um, you know, we should 224 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 1: note that the spear would remain, would become and remain 225 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:51,480 Speaker 1: a standard in military conflict for thousands of years, especially 226 00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 1: when used in a phalanx, you know, a close formation 227 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 1: of troops that all have spears. But then again, you're 228 00:11:57,760 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 1: not gonna be able to use that really to to 229 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:02,320 Speaker 1: you know, go bring down of stag. Not really, you 230 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 1: don't really think about that being hunting tactic, right, Your 231 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:08,280 Speaker 1: falanx doesn't really keep up with the stag. But again, 232 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 1: the spear was a major technology, was a game changer, 233 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:12,760 Speaker 1: and it remained in use for a very long time. 234 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:16,000 Speaker 1: But at some point a new range weapon uh came 235 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:17,560 Speaker 1: on the scene, and that was, of course the bow 236 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 1: and arrow. Right. And you might think, okay, well, there's 237 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 1: just like the next step, right, you go from throwing 238 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 1: a spear with your hand to the bow and arrow 239 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:28,720 Speaker 1: and there's nothing in between, right, Uh. When that is 240 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:31,560 Speaker 1: not true. That's the that that is the whole reason 241 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:35,000 Speaker 1: we're doing this episode is to talk about the technology 242 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:38,560 Speaker 1: that comes between these advancements. That's right. We are talking 243 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:42,400 Speaker 1: about a projectile delivery system, one of the one of 244 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:46,520 Speaker 1: the most beautiful early machines that humans put together that 245 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:49,760 Speaker 1: is commonly today known as the addle adele. Alright, on 246 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 1: that note, we're gonna take a quick break, but when 247 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:54,839 Speaker 1: we come back, we are going to discuss the spear 248 00:12:54,880 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 1: throwing technology. Alright, we're back, so it's time to talk 249 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 1: about upgrading the spear by upgrading the delivery mechanism of 250 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:10,360 Speaker 1: the spear. And this is before you get to the 251 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:13,040 Speaker 1: bow and arrow. This is after the hand thrown spear, 252 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 1: before the bow and arrow. There's this weapon that comes 253 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 1: along in human techno history. Uh and it's not nearly 254 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:21,680 Speaker 1: as well known as the bow, obviously, but it is 255 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:25,120 Speaker 1: nevertheless one of the most world changing and longest use 256 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:30,280 Speaker 1: technologies in human history. And this weapon is the audleladdle. Uh. So, 257 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:32,360 Speaker 1: the word addle lattle is spelled a t l a 258 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:35,240 Speaker 1: t l. It comes from the n waddle language of 259 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:38,800 Speaker 1: the Aztec. But it's it's just that's just one regional 260 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 1: variant of the name. More generally, this technology is sometimes 261 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:45,480 Speaker 1: known as the spear thrower or the dart thrower. Though 262 00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:48,480 Speaker 1: don't let the word dart give you the wrong idea there. 263 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:50,959 Speaker 1: When I first read dart thrower, I was thinking, okay, 264 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:53,000 Speaker 1: like a game of darts. So something that's like four 265 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:55,760 Speaker 1: inches long and hold in your hand now that this 266 00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:59,160 Speaker 1: is going to be referring to a huge projectile. Yeah, 267 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 1: we're talking a something that you would look at and 268 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:04,880 Speaker 1: classify as a very large arrow or a or a 269 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 1: or even just a spear, like a spear with fletching 270 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:11,400 Speaker 1: sort of. So there are other words and other languages 271 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:14,760 Speaker 1: for the same tool. Uh. Apparently in Spanish it's known 272 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 1: as the estolica, and in French it's the propulsire. The 273 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:24,760 Speaker 1: English transliterations, I think of the common Australian terms for 274 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:28,880 Speaker 1: it are are woomera or miru. I was reading that 275 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 1: there's a version used by some of the you pick 276 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:34,640 Speaker 1: people of Alaska, mostly for hunting seals. Reportedly even to 277 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:37,440 Speaker 1: the present day by some that's called the new cock 278 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 1: or the throwing board. On this being the idea that 279 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:42,720 Speaker 1: it's it's essentially in this case of I mean it's 280 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:45,720 Speaker 1: kind of board shaped. Yeah, not the dart itself, but 281 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:48,720 Speaker 1: the throwing device, the the the equivalent of the addle addle, 282 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 1: which we're going to be focusing on today. So what 283 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:54,120 Speaker 1: is this thing if you've never seen one in action? Well, 284 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:57,520 Speaker 1: in some ways, it looks so simple, it's deceptively simple. 285 00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:00,240 Speaker 1: It's simple in a way that hides the gene use 286 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:03,640 Speaker 1: of this invention, and I would argue that it's one 287 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:08,320 Speaker 1: of our earliest biological augmentations, ways of sort of upgrading 288 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 1: the human body, almost in a kind of video game, 289 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 1: since like sort of the first steps towards cyborg dum. 290 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:17,240 Speaker 1: One example, of course, of this type of bioaugmentation would 291 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:20,040 Speaker 1: be something like wearing animal skins as clothes. You know, 292 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 1: this turns our relatively climate sensitive bodies into technological hybrids, 293 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:27,600 Speaker 1: like as if we had fur and extra layers of 294 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 1: skin to help us keep warm and protect us from 295 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 1: the weather. And the addle Lottele is like this, except 296 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 1: instead of upgrading our epidermist. It's a similar type of 297 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 1: upgrade for the spear throwing human arm. Yeah, I mean, 298 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:42,800 Speaker 1: like any tool use upgrades the body schema, like it 299 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:46,280 Speaker 1: updates the way that your brain is processing the limits 300 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 1: of your body and how you use your body. So 301 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:51,000 Speaker 1: you know, if you use a you have a sharpened 302 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:54,120 Speaker 1: uh stick in your hand, you have a sword in 303 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:57,840 Speaker 1: your hand, well, your that is an extension of your arm. Yeah, 304 00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 1: it's an increased like the lethalid in the reach of 305 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 1: your hand, right, and that in a nutshell is what's 306 00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 1: going on here is increasing the length of the throwing arm. 307 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:12,080 Speaker 1: Uh Well, one bit of technology that that it's I 308 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:15,280 Speaker 1: think it's sort of comparable to, is the tennis ball 309 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:19,280 Speaker 1: thrower that dog enthusiast and dog owners sometimes have. Yes, 310 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:21,880 Speaker 1: if you've ever seen one of these things that I 311 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 1: think it's mostly actually just for keeping the slobber off 312 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:27,760 Speaker 1: of your helps you pick it up to so it's 313 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 1: like a little scoop that you know, if your your 314 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:32,240 Speaker 1: dog brings the tennis ball back to you, it's covered 315 00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:34,240 Speaker 1: in in drool and you pick it up in this 316 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 1: scoop and then you whip the scoop out overhand and 317 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:39,360 Speaker 1: throw the ball. And it also helps you get distance 318 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:42,520 Speaker 1: on the because I don't have one that's for dogs, 319 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:45,520 Speaker 1: but I have one um that that is for for children, 320 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 1: similar concept. I guess where the child out by throwing 321 00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:50,840 Speaker 1: it farther so that but it's like a whistle ball, 322 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:53,360 Speaker 1: like one of these like nerf whistleball things. And I 323 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:56,680 Speaker 1: was it's really super fun because you can just really 324 00:16:56,760 --> 00:16:59,640 Speaker 1: hurl this thing like like like crazy like far, you know, 325 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:02,120 Speaker 1: far greater distance than you could by just trying to 326 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:04,920 Speaker 1: throw it like a mini football. But how does that happen. 327 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 1: Your arm didn't get any stronger. You're just as strong 328 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:09,399 Speaker 1: as you were when you were throwing at those puny 329 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:13,119 Speaker 1: distances with your hand. Uh So, the same principle is 330 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:16,160 Speaker 1: at play in the addle addle. So the invention has 331 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:19,320 Speaker 1: two primary parts. One is the dart, which we were 332 00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 1: talking about a minute ago. It looks sort of like 333 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:24,119 Speaker 1: a huge arrow. It's going to be usually a wooden 334 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:27,159 Speaker 1: shaft with a sharpened point at its tip, either like 335 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 1: a stone spearhead or just a sharpened wooden tip in 336 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:35,320 Speaker 1: anything sharp and puncturing. And then on the back it's 337 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 1: going to have fletchings. So I think these feather fins 338 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:39,800 Speaker 1: that you would see on the back of an arrow, 339 00:17:40,119 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 1: and those are for aerodynamic stabilization. They help it fly straight. 340 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 1: If you've never seen a dart like this, basically just 341 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:50,600 Speaker 1: picture something that is like an arrow, but spear sized, 342 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:53,560 Speaker 1: maybe six feet or about one point eight meters long 343 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:55,960 Speaker 1: on average, though they can be a good bit longer 344 00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 1: or shorter. The average is about six or seven feet. 345 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:02,400 Speaker 1: Then you've got the launching device, the auto laddle itself, 346 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:06,399 Speaker 1: which is a baton that is used to throw the dart, 347 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:08,600 Speaker 1: and this is usually going to be in the range 348 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:10,640 Speaker 1: of about one and a half to two ft long, 349 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:14,040 Speaker 1: or about fifty to sixty centimeters roughly. Though then again, 350 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:16,160 Speaker 1: you know, like the dart, this can be a good 351 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:19,239 Speaker 1: bit longer or shorter. Uh so, So picture something kind 352 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:22,040 Speaker 1: of like a two ft baton. It's got a grip 353 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:25,240 Speaker 1: handle on one end and on the other end some 354 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:28,720 Speaker 1: type of component that couples with the back end of 355 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:32,200 Speaker 1: the dart. And this can be a cup shaped depression 356 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:34,480 Speaker 1: that the back of the dart sits in, or it 357 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:36,680 Speaker 1: can be kind of a simple hook that the back 358 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:40,440 Speaker 1: of the dart catches in, or sometimes it's actually inverted 359 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:43,439 Speaker 1: where the back of the auto laddle has a spur 360 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:46,640 Speaker 1: that locks into a groove or depression on the rear 361 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:49,560 Speaker 1: end of the dart. Does that make sense. Yeah, we'll 362 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:51,879 Speaker 1: try and have at least one image of this on 363 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:54,720 Speaker 1: the landing page for this episode at invention pot dot com. 364 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:58,040 Speaker 1: But also, this is the kind of technology that a 365 00:18:58,080 --> 00:18:59,920 Speaker 1: lot of you have probably had the privilege of seeing 366 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:03,560 Speaker 1: in either in a museum when when it's available, or 367 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:07,680 Speaker 1: at least a recreation of it, or various YouTube videos 368 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:09,960 Speaker 1: where people have recreated them. Yeah, you can look up 369 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 1: all kinds of There are tons of attle lott of 370 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:14,360 Speaker 1: enthusiasts out there today. In addition to the people who 371 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:17,040 Speaker 1: actually do still actively hunt with it, there are a 372 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 1: lot of people who just kind of play with them recreationally, right, 373 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:24,320 Speaker 1: and the addle lotto itself, taking into account both modern 374 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:29,679 Speaker 1: and ancient variations, it can often look just very utilitarian, 375 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 1: like like clearly a stick that you know it is 376 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:36,280 Speaker 1: for uh, you know, for for launching a spear, you know, 377 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:38,879 Speaker 1: not not a lot more than that. But you also 378 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 1: see some rather ornate looking ones that really look like 379 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:43,600 Speaker 1: a scepter. You can sort of tell that they have 380 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:46,600 Speaker 1: some sort of a functionality, like they're like, clearly there's 381 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 1: some sort of purpose for its shape. But uh, you know, 382 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:53,119 Speaker 1: there's some some wonderful examples of this for the you know, 383 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:57,840 Speaker 1: date back say seventeen thousand to thirteen thousand years ago, uh, 384 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:01,080 Speaker 1: for modern day France, and the example I was looking 385 00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:04,399 Speaker 1: at it, it looks like a deer perched atop a stick. 386 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:07,320 Speaker 1: And there are these added birds as well. And in 387 00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:11,160 Speaker 1: some of these cases these maybe these may be nonfunctional 388 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:13,960 Speaker 1: versions of the add a lottle. This is what it 389 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:16,720 Speaker 1: would have been, say the odd a lottle that you 390 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:20,119 Speaker 1: would put on the wall the same way that they are. Like, 391 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:23,240 Speaker 1: swords have a real function and they were made for 392 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:25,560 Speaker 1: a real functional reason. But there are plenty of just 393 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:28,919 Speaker 1: decorative swords that exists, you know, the fancy one that 394 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:31,200 Speaker 1: you hang up over the mantel or the hand ax 395 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:33,879 Speaker 1: is another example of this. They're like there's some examples 396 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:36,160 Speaker 1: of the hand ACKs that that may have been hard 397 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:38,840 Speaker 1: to say in many cases, but may have been purely decorative. 398 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:41,600 Speaker 1: But that gets into this weird relationship we have with 399 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:45,880 Speaker 1: our technology, right we When technology plays an important role 400 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:48,960 Speaker 1: in our lives, it can be fetishized, it can be 401 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:51,960 Speaker 1: it can be revered, it can be even attributed with 402 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:55,400 Speaker 1: magical properties. Uh and to the point that it may 403 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 1: not actually be physically used for the thing that it 404 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 1: was made to do anymore, such a like every sword 405 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:02,920 Speaker 1: sold at a rint festival as an example of this. 406 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 1: There are tons of ways in which tools and objects 407 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 1: used to do work becomes symbolic. And because they become symbolic, 408 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:14,119 Speaker 1: I mean they're they're hugely evocative things. Think of the 409 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 1: hammer and sickle symbolizing like work and plenty and you 410 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:20,680 Speaker 1: know all that, or the sword and shield on medieval 411 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:24,000 Speaker 1: heraldry or whatever. That's just like showing strength and power, 412 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:28,240 Speaker 1: and you know so, um so the tools themselves become 413 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:31,680 Speaker 1: incredibly powerful symbols. Yeah, you're exactly right, But let's say 414 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:34,159 Speaker 1: it's not just for decoration. You actually want to use it. 415 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:36,680 Speaker 1: So you're out hunting and you're in a warfare scenario. 416 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:39,680 Speaker 1: You're in a hunting scenario, and so to use the addolazzle, 417 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:43,320 Speaker 1: what you do is you hold the dart parallel to 418 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:46,359 Speaker 1: the launching baton to the addolzzle, so they're they're sitting 419 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 1: basically side by side, flat against each other, and you're 420 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:53,439 Speaker 1: gonna hold them horizontal with the back end of the 421 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:56,159 Speaker 1: dart knocked into the cup or the hook or the 422 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:58,600 Speaker 1: spur whatever it is that connects with the back of 423 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:01,640 Speaker 1: the dart, with the art pointing forward, so you're gonna 424 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:04,720 Speaker 1: be holding it up over your shoulder, pointing forward towards 425 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 1: your target. And when you've aimed at your target, you 426 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 1: sort of whipped the odd lattal forward with the handle end, 427 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:13,560 Speaker 1: which brings its length from its horizontal starting place through 428 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 1: a vertical arc. And then the back end of the dart, 429 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:19,440 Speaker 1: of course, is pushed as it pivots on the spur 430 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:22,159 Speaker 1: or the copp or the hook before the dart is 431 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:24,520 Speaker 1: loose at the top of the arc and then flies 432 00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:27,000 Speaker 1: free toward its target. So you can think of the 433 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:29,040 Speaker 1: motion a little bit not exactly the same, but a 434 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:31,920 Speaker 1: little bit sort of like an overhand tennis stroke, right, 435 00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:36,399 Speaker 1: You're like bringing the launching device forward to launch the 436 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:40,160 Speaker 1: projectile with the thing that extends out from your hand. Yeah, 437 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 1: Or if you think in other way, is if you 438 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:44,280 Speaker 1: think of it of the of just like you know, 439 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:47,600 Speaker 1: this overhand throw of a spear, it's like you have 440 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:51,119 Speaker 1: mechanically recreated the arm and the spear. Again, it's kind 441 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:54,959 Speaker 1: of a mechanical projectile hurling arm brandished by a human arm. 442 00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:58,040 Speaker 1: Or more specifically, though, it is a lever that extends 443 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:00,080 Speaker 1: the length of the spear thrower's arm for a fight 444 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:03,240 Speaker 1: or momentum. Right, it makes your arm longer, and it 445 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:06,919 Speaker 1: gives you another joint in your arm. So instead of 446 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:10,400 Speaker 1: just shoulder, elbow and wrist to pivot and whip along 447 00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:15,320 Speaker 1: to deliver that that momentum, you essentially get a second forearm. 448 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:17,800 Speaker 1: And so so why is this better than just throwing 449 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 1: a spear with your hand? Well, the primary advantage of 450 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:23,320 Speaker 1: and we can discuss some other possible advantages as well, 451 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 1: but the primary advantage of the auto ladle over the 452 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:29,720 Speaker 1: hand thrown spear is that it flies a good deal faster, 453 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:33,359 Speaker 1: which increases the range of flight and the force of 454 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:36,280 Speaker 1: the impact and the depth of penetration when it hits 455 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:39,480 Speaker 1: its target. Yeah, so let's let's talk some numbers again. 456 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:43,520 Speaker 1: So consider earlier, we're talking about a modern javelin throwing 457 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:46,200 Speaker 1: record of what a hundred and four point eighty meters 458 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:48,600 Speaker 1: or three hundred forty three feet in nine and three 459 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:51,280 Speaker 1: fourth snitches. Now again with all the caveats right, that's 460 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:53,919 Speaker 1: like a modern javelin and like and you're not aiming 461 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:56,239 Speaker 1: at an accuracy target. You're just throwing as far as 462 00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:58,919 Speaker 1: you can exactly. Now, springboarding off of that, looking at 463 00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:05,080 Speaker 1: modern modern auto laddle distance records, Uh, there's one set 464 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:09,200 Speaker 1: by Dave inga ball and he used a very modern 465 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:13,199 Speaker 1: take on the weapon, a carbon fiber auto ladle and 466 00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:16,320 Speaker 1: an aluminum dart and he hurled it two hundred and 467 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:19,000 Speaker 1: fifty eight point sixty four meters or eight hundred forty 468 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:23,320 Speaker 1: eight point fifty six feet. Another record that our researcher 469 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:27,439 Speaker 1: Scott brought up was using a wooden auto loddele. The 470 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:30,119 Speaker 1: record is two hundred thirty point forty eight meters or 471 00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:32,800 Speaker 1: seven hundred fifty six ft and this was set by 472 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:38,000 Speaker 1: Ilka Continajo from Finland using a like a birch auto 473 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:42,360 Speaker 1: loadele UH and UH a wooden dart. But in either case, though, 474 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 1: I think it's pretty safe to say that we're talking 475 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 1: about a technology that effectively doubles the throwing range, from 476 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:51,760 Speaker 1: going from a hand thrown spear to an auto laddle 477 00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:55,640 Speaker 1: thrown spear. Yeah, and so that automatically tells you something. 478 00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:57,639 Speaker 1: If just you're going for distance and you can go 479 00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:01,720 Speaker 1: more than twice as far as you can hand throwing it, Now, 480 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,640 Speaker 1: the hunting scenario is going to be somewhat different than 481 00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:07,640 Speaker 1: the javel and throwing scenario where you're just going for distance. 482 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:12,760 Speaker 1: Because the hunting scenario, accuracy becomes important and also other 483 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:15,199 Speaker 1: qualities that we might not think about as much, just 484 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:18,600 Speaker 1: like power and accuracy. Also, stealth becomes important in most 485 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:22,840 Speaker 1: hunting scenarios. However, when you take into account UH, you 486 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:26,439 Speaker 1: know the hunting scenario. For instance, Brian and Fagan in 487 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:28,879 Speaker 1: seventy great inventions of the Ancient World, a book that 488 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:31,119 Speaker 1: I have referenced before on the show. He writes that 489 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:34,920 Speaker 1: the audle ladil improves range by as much as fourfold, 490 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:39,200 Speaker 1: again stressing that you know, accuracy would come with practice. Yeah, 491 00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:42,320 Speaker 1: that's essential in all of this. It's not a like 492 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:44,679 Speaker 1: like any piece of you know, of ancient technology, Like 493 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 1: a great deal of skill needed to be involved. You 494 00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:49,760 Speaker 1: couldn't go from just you know, being an experienced spear 495 00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:52,480 Speaker 1: thrower to picking up an auto laddel and getting it automatically. 496 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:55,600 Speaker 1: This would this change the way that you you utilize 497 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:58,080 Speaker 1: the weapon. Yeah, Now I want to talk about some 498 00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:01,159 Speaker 1: characteristics of the use of the upen, like weighing some 499 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,960 Speaker 1: of these pros and cons about its mechanics. One thing 500 00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:07,000 Speaker 1: I was reading was a report about a two thousand 501 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:10,320 Speaker 1: three physics paper by Richard A. Ball, which was called 502 00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:13,680 Speaker 1: the Dynamics of Spear Throwing in the American Journal of Physics. 503 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:17,000 Speaker 1: And in this case he used high speed video to 504 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:20,520 Speaker 1: analyze the characteristics of auto ladle throws and create a 505 00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:25,359 Speaker 1: computer model of auto ladal launching scenarios and so. Among 506 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:28,080 Speaker 1: the things he found was that the lever action of 507 00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:32,240 Speaker 1: the autolattle allows regular throws to achieve speeds of more 508 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 1: than a hundred kilometers per hour. And I wonder about 509 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:38,280 Speaker 1: this if this is a conservative or low end estimate, 510 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:43,320 Speaker 1: because elsewhere I've seen it claimed pretty regularly but without citation, 511 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:46,000 Speaker 1: that the auto lad will allows throws more in the 512 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:48,600 Speaker 1: range of a hundred miles per hour, which is more 513 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:51,159 Speaker 1: like a hundred and sixty kilometers per hour, which is 514 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:54,359 Speaker 1: a good bit faster. But then again, to bring support 515 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:56,960 Speaker 1: back to the lower end of the speed measurements, there 516 00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,920 Speaker 1: was a different study. I found one by Whittaker, Pedigrew, 517 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:04,359 Speaker 1: and Grossmeire in uh Paleo America in seen and what 518 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:08,159 Speaker 1: they found was, quote, we measured numerous well practiced individuals 519 00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 1: using a variety of auto LTDAL equipment, comparing radar, gun, film, 520 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:15,520 Speaker 1: and chronograph measurements of dart velocity. The auto ladle is 521 00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:18,639 Speaker 1: used in hunting and warfare probably did not accelerate darts 522 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:22,120 Speaker 1: much beyond thirty five ms per second or seventy eight 523 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:25,240 Speaker 1: miles per hour. So that that's uh honing back in 524 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:27,840 Speaker 1: on somewhere close to the you know, hundred kilometers per 525 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,760 Speaker 1: hour a little bit more, um, but that's nothing to 526 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:33,040 Speaker 1: sniff at. You get hit by a six foot dart 527 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 1: at seventy eight miles per hour, and that's that's brutal. Yeah, 528 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:38,560 Speaker 1: that's still gonna pierce the skin. That's still gonna pierce 529 00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:41,800 Speaker 1: the hide. That's still gonna you know, work towards getting 530 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:43,800 Speaker 1: you where you want to go and bringing down a 531 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:46,600 Speaker 1: large animal. Yeah, and uh, to the point, more to 532 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:47,920 Speaker 1: the point of what you were talking about. With those 533 00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:50,960 Speaker 1: pure distance measurements, Ball found you could achieve distances of 534 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:54,560 Speaker 1: more than two hundred meters easily. Uh, the distance will 535 00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:56,520 Speaker 1: probably be a lot shorter again if you're going for 536 00:27:56,600 --> 00:28:00,399 Speaker 1: hunting accuracy. Now, here's something interesting that is sort of 537 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:02,879 Speaker 1: an archaeological mystery that's been going on for a while. 538 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:05,040 Speaker 1: There are some audle addles that have been found that 539 00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:07,560 Speaker 1: have a weight in the middle of the shaft called 540 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:12,320 Speaker 1: a banner stone, and archaeologists have debated what the purpose 541 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,720 Speaker 1: of this stone was. Some people thought it was decorative, 542 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:18,480 Speaker 1: some thought it actually provided a benefit to the throw, 543 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 1: maybe that by increasing the weight of the auto addle 544 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:25,320 Speaker 1: it would allow you to throw harder. But Bob found 545 00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:27,800 Speaker 1: with his model that increasing the weight of the auto 546 00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:30,080 Speaker 1: addle did not have much effect on the speed of 547 00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:32,639 Speaker 1: the dart. What did have an effect on the speed 548 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:35,560 Speaker 1: of the dart was the auto addles flexibility. If the 549 00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:38,600 Speaker 1: shaft is flexible, it it can increase the speed of 550 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:41,160 Speaker 1: the throw by up to fifteen percent. This sort of 551 00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:43,000 Speaker 1: makes sense to me, almost like adding a bit of 552 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:46,000 Speaker 1: the bow flex propulsion into the throw. So this is 553 00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:48,960 Speaker 1: probably a good place to mention that archaeology the archaeological 554 00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:53,520 Speaker 1: challenges of understanding the the the auto addle. Uh, you know, 555 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:57,120 Speaker 1: what remains of the ancient past do we have to 556 00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,440 Speaker 1: to look at? You know, when we we we end 557 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:02,560 Speaker 1: up looking at things like stone weapon tips, which which 558 00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:07,400 Speaker 1: generally preserved very well, mysterious stones such as the banner stone. 559 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,080 Speaker 1: You know, they're they're they're going to uh stand the 560 00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:12,640 Speaker 1: test of time and when we're but when we're lucky, 561 00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:15,680 Speaker 1: we find wooden remains that say, give us an idea 562 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:19,440 Speaker 1: of how long archaic humans have been crafting spears. But 563 00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:23,360 Speaker 1: it's really easy to lose track of simple tools, and 564 00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:25,120 Speaker 1: especially when they're made out of out of wood that 565 00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:27,600 Speaker 1: just simply doesn't last. And it's a challenge then to 566 00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:31,040 Speaker 1: figure try and figure out how they played into ancient traditions. Uh. 567 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:33,120 Speaker 1: You know, all of this is enhanced with the addleaddle 568 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:36,120 Speaker 1: because it's a it's a complex mechanical tool, and for 569 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:39,480 Speaker 1: much of the world it was abandoned prior to recorded history, 570 00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:42,440 Speaker 1: So in many of these cases there are no traditions 571 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,560 Speaker 1: of the weapon passed on. Yeah, we talked about this 572 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:47,720 Speaker 1: in our episode with Dietrich Stout where we were looking 573 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:50,680 Speaker 1: at stone age technology as specifically a lot of stuff 574 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:54,440 Speaker 1: about like stone napping in the by faces and all that, 575 00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:57,760 Speaker 1: where you know, he just pointed out it's not always 576 00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:00,680 Speaker 1: easy to tell what an ancient tool was used for. 577 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:03,720 Speaker 1: You can often find a stone that appears to have 578 00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:06,840 Speaker 1: been modified in some way, but what was it for? 579 00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:08,840 Speaker 1: I don't know. Then you have to you have to 580 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:12,040 Speaker 1: start making a lot of inferences. Even worse the case 581 00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:14,840 Speaker 1: when you've got wooden tools that don't necessarily last as 582 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:17,160 Speaker 1: long as stone tools do, and so it might be 583 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:20,240 Speaker 1: in some degraded form. But just as a side note, 584 00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:23,320 Speaker 1: you mentioned the idea that um for much of the world, 585 00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:26,480 Speaker 1: the addleaddle was abandoned prior to recorded history, and that 586 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:29,760 Speaker 1: is true in many cultures. But while the spear thrower 587 00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:33,000 Speaker 1: was often abandoned by cultures after they acquired the bow 588 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:37,080 Speaker 1: and arrow, it wasn't always there were some cultures. For instance, 589 00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:40,600 Speaker 1: I've read about the examples of some cultures in Mesoamerica 590 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,880 Speaker 1: and in the Arctic who held onto the spear thrower 591 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:47,520 Speaker 1: and even preferred it for some specialized uses after the 592 00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:50,840 Speaker 1: bow was introduced. So it might be interesting to look 593 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,720 Speaker 1: at what some of those reasons for holding onto the 594 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:58,440 Speaker 1: autoladdle as a weapons propulsion technology after the introduction of 595 00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:01,560 Speaker 1: the bow might be. So I was inspired by this question, 596 00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:04,400 Speaker 1: and I was looking around, particularly as it regards the 597 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:10,560 Speaker 1: Aztec people and basically meso American people's were using the 598 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:14,040 Speaker 1: auto loadel. But then the bow was introduced by various 599 00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:17,560 Speaker 1: northern tribes that invaded Mexico from the north, and the 600 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:21,760 Speaker 1: twelfth and thirteenth century ce UH several different tribal groups 601 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:25,320 Speaker 1: that were referred to um by some of the meso 602 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:28,960 Speaker 1: American peoples as being barbarians, which I guess is you know, 603 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:31,560 Speaker 1: often the case, right, those that invade you from outside 604 00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:34,640 Speaker 1: are considered the barbarians, even in this case when they're 605 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:38,600 Speaker 1: bringing with them a more advanced ranged weapon, right because 606 00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:41,480 Speaker 1: of the tensions stored in the bow, but not necessarily 607 00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:45,000 Speaker 1: better for every single case, that's right. So I was 608 00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:48,440 Speaker 1: looking at a blog the Aztec Vault by William Anderson, 609 00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:51,160 Speaker 1: which is which is really good? I recommend it U 610 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:53,680 Speaker 1: And he was and he was referring to the work 611 00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:58,840 Speaker 1: of anthropologist Ross Hassig and pointed out that that even 612 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:00,800 Speaker 1: that even you know, in the in the wake of 613 00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:04,520 Speaker 1: the bow, uh, the the Aztec people then, uh, you know, 614 00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:07,880 Speaker 1: are are rising up in power and they have they 615 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:12,400 Speaker 1: have taken the bow into their their military usage. But uh, 616 00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:16,760 Speaker 1: as tech nobility still considered the bow a barbaric weapon 617 00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:20,959 Speaker 1: and unbecoming of their use. But because it was believed 618 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:24,680 Speaker 1: to be introduced by people's who were perceived as enemies. Yeah, 619 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,080 Speaker 1: and then also just you know, the auto ladle was was, 620 00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,520 Speaker 1: on the other hand, a revered weapon of the Aztec people, 621 00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:33,000 Speaker 1: And so the nobility didn't want anything to do with 622 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:35,560 Speaker 1: the bow. The commoners they would be the ones to 623 00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:39,080 Speaker 1: utilize the bow and arrow in their military campaigns. Uh. 624 00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:40,800 Speaker 1: And you know, so they were they were all about 625 00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:44,040 Speaker 1: embracing the use of the bow and arrow, but personally 626 00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:46,000 Speaker 1: they were never going to use them. They were going 627 00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:48,520 Speaker 1: to use the auto laddle. So yeah, the the elite 628 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:50,680 Speaker 1: class would do the auto ladle and commoners would use 629 00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:54,600 Speaker 1: the large bows as well as slings in combat. Anderson 630 00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:58,840 Speaker 1: writes quote Hassig argues that the addo ladle was likely 631 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:01,760 Speaker 1: used during the initial charge at the very beginning of 632 00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:04,920 Speaker 1: an engagement. It had less range than the bow, but 633 00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:07,920 Speaker 1: had far more power behind the projectile and was therefore 634 00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:12,080 Speaker 1: more likely to penetrate armor or a shield. During the charge, 635 00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:15,720 Speaker 1: warriors likely through a salvo of four or five darts 636 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:18,719 Speaker 1: that they carried loosely in their hand before they dropped 637 00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:22,120 Speaker 1: the autoladdle and switched to a melee weapon. And by 638 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:25,520 Speaker 1: the way, I believe the melee weapon in question would 639 00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:31,920 Speaker 1: have been the obsidian edged Maquahitle wooden sword club. Hopefully 640 00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:33,760 Speaker 1: everyone's seen an image of one of these. But it 641 00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:37,240 Speaker 1: is a just a terrific looking um kind of a 642 00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:40,440 Speaker 1: hybrid of sword and club. You know, it's it's it's wooden. 643 00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:42,680 Speaker 1: It kind of looks like some sort of like an 644 00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:47,000 Speaker 1: ancient chainsaw. It's a brewer looking weapon. Uh uh so, yeah, 645 00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:50,440 Speaker 1: I'm just imagining the you know, the elite soldier class 646 00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:54,400 Speaker 1: of the Aztecs rushing into battle using the autoladdle to 647 00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:58,200 Speaker 1: hurl these these high powered spears into the front ranks 648 00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:01,680 Speaker 1: and then dropping the auto addle all together and whipping 649 00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:05,520 Speaker 1: out this sword. Uh. It's a pretty pretty terrifying scenario. 650 00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:08,560 Speaker 1: But to be clear, that is the scholar Hassig's interpretation. 651 00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:11,560 Speaker 1: He thinks probably happen. There's a lot and has has 652 00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:15,920 Speaker 1: has written extensively on Aztec military and you know what 653 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:18,560 Speaker 1: their tactics seem to have been. But with all things 654 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:23,239 Speaker 1: regarding um, you know, pre contact meso America. Uh, you know, 655 00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:24,759 Speaker 1: there's a lot we don't know, and there's a lot 656 00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:28,600 Speaker 1: that we have to infer. But it seems like the 657 00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:31,680 Speaker 1: continued use of the auto ladle among the Aztec people 658 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:33,680 Speaker 1: is a combination of sticking with the weapon out of 659 00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:37,840 Speaker 1: cultural tradition, uh, and and with we should say, seemingly 660 00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:40,799 Speaker 1: fewer centuries to abandon it outright, you know, like the 661 00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:44,279 Speaker 1: culture still had some charge left in it, right, but 662 00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:46,600 Speaker 1: also figuring out you know, it was a matter of 663 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:49,719 Speaker 1: figuring out how to best utilize it in the evolving 664 00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:53,880 Speaker 1: face of battle alongside newer weapons, like defining what auto 665 00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:58,839 Speaker 1: ladle can do that slings and bows and arrows cannot achieve. Yeah, Uh, 666 00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:01,839 Speaker 1: now I have seen it. I did other other reasons 667 00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:05,840 Speaker 1: beyond just like cultural attachment that people might have for 668 00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:09,040 Speaker 1: preserving the use of the ottolattle even after the introduction 669 00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:11,680 Speaker 1: of the bow. Like I was reading some reasons that 670 00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:15,080 Speaker 1: have been cited by the World Auto Lttle Association, who 671 00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:17,520 Speaker 1: point out, for example, you can use the odd laddle 672 00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:20,720 Speaker 1: with one hand like that. Yeah, and if you're charging again, 673 00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:24,239 Speaker 1: charging across the battlefield like that, that makes sense, right, 674 00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:26,600 Speaker 1: you have the you have your your darts in one hand, 675 00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:29,319 Speaker 1: the auto ltto on the other and uh, and that's 676 00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:31,480 Speaker 1: all you need, right, So you got that. Another thing 677 00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:36,319 Speaker 1: is that it could propel very heavy projectiles delivering more momentum. Uh. 678 00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:38,759 Speaker 1: You know, you're comparing like this dart that's more like 679 00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:42,160 Speaker 1: a spear on the odd laddle versus the typically smaller 680 00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:44,080 Speaker 1: arrows you would shoot with the bow. And of course 681 00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:46,359 Speaker 1: if you get with a hit with a heavier projectile, 682 00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:48,600 Speaker 1: it's going to hurt you more. And in the case 683 00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:51,040 Speaker 1: of the Aztecs, it's worth pointing out that like their 684 00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:53,920 Speaker 1: adversaries would have had armor, they were not unarmored people. 685 00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:57,560 Speaker 1: It was like fiber based, but it was still protection 686 00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:01,520 Speaker 1: against these various weapons that were employed. Yeah, that's a 687 00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:04,439 Speaker 1: good point. Uh. And then another interesting reason they said 688 00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:08,080 Speaker 1: is that it is easier, apparently on an auto loaddle 689 00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:12,680 Speaker 1: to attach a line to the dart for like reeling 690 00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:15,760 Speaker 1: back of harpoons. So if you're out trying to harpoon 691 00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:19,239 Speaker 1: seals or something like that, it might be easier to 692 00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:21,600 Speaker 1: use an auto loaddle than a bow, in which case 693 00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:24,400 Speaker 1: the line could maybe get in the way of shooting. 694 00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:27,000 Speaker 1: I'm I'm assuming that's the reason. And it also might 695 00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:28,799 Speaker 1: have something to do with the like the weight of 696 00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:32,120 Speaker 1: the line, right, yeah. Yeah. And so one one more 697 00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:34,839 Speaker 1: thing that I think is interesting is the question of 698 00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:37,879 Speaker 1: how accurate you can be with an autoladdle, Because on 699 00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:42,600 Speaker 1: one hand, it seems intuitive to me that not a 700 00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:45,000 Speaker 1: lottle would be hard to use, like it would be 701 00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:47,279 Speaker 1: hard to get it to aim right, It seems kind 702 00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:50,920 Speaker 1: of unwieldy. But when you watch practice throwers with it, 703 00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:54,400 Speaker 1: they look deadly accurate. Um. In fact, I was just 704 00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:57,680 Speaker 1: reading about I was just reading an anecdotal report of 705 00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:00,440 Speaker 1: this one guy who was you know, this is not 706 00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:03,160 Speaker 1: somebody who's been using an autoladal his whole life. This 707 00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:05,080 Speaker 1: is just a guy who who picked it up and 708 00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:08,960 Speaker 1: started hunting with it in uh In, Florida. This was 709 00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:12,440 Speaker 1: reported in by the Mississippi Clarion Ledger after he had 710 00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:15,400 Speaker 1: killed an alligator with an autolto. Apparently this is like 711 00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:18,640 Speaker 1: a really interesting story, but one part that stuck out 712 00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:21,200 Speaker 1: to me was that the the guy who did it, 713 00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:23,560 Speaker 1: his name was Ryan gil He said he was shocked 714 00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:26,840 Speaker 1: how accurate the weapon was once he tried it, reporting 715 00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:29,320 Speaker 1: that he found he could pretty easily hit soda cans 716 00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:32,680 Speaker 1: at ten yards or about nine point one meters soda cans. 717 00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:34,400 Speaker 1: I mean that's I don't know if I could hit 718 00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:36,200 Speaker 1: those with a bow and arrow. I don't I don't 719 00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:40,160 Speaker 1: know if I coul hit one with a rock depends 720 00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:43,520 Speaker 1: um and and a lot of the evidence I found 721 00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:46,720 Speaker 1: for this idea that you could actually be very accurate 722 00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:49,200 Speaker 1: with the auto ladle, Like this story was just sort 723 00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:53,560 Speaker 1: of anecdotal reports, but there is apparently some empirical research 724 00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:57,439 Speaker 1: on accuracy on the accuracy of autoladile compared to say 725 00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:01,080 Speaker 1: the bow. Uh. This one some arized by Whittaker at 726 00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:05,040 Speaker 1: all from the paper I mentioned earlier. Quote accuracy is 727 00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:08,920 Speaker 1: more easily achieved with a bow, although a skilled adoladolist 728 00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:12,279 Speaker 1: can compete with an archer at short ranges. So it 729 00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:14,680 Speaker 1: seems like in general, a bow is more accurate, but 730 00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:17,560 Speaker 1: if you practice enough, you can get about as accurate 731 00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:21,319 Speaker 1: with an autolattle at short range. There just appears to 732 00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:24,879 Speaker 1: be maybe a stronger learning curve with the autolatdle. So 733 00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:27,920 Speaker 1: to go back to the Aztec scenario, like again, this 734 00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:31,000 Speaker 1: seems like the perfect usage for it because those those 735 00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:34,320 Speaker 1: elite soldiers rushing in, they have to close that distance 736 00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:38,120 Speaker 1: anyway they have to. They're having to traverse that area 737 00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:41,799 Speaker 1: where the addolttle could be used. And again it's a 738 00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:44,799 Speaker 1: one handed weapon, so that's like the perfect domain for 739 00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:47,600 Speaker 1: its use. But also pointing out that you know this 740 00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:49,719 Speaker 1: could also have you know, also there's perhaps a shock 741 00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:51,920 Speaker 1: element to it as well, you know it's coming. Maybe 742 00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:53,720 Speaker 1: it's kind of a terror weapon. This is the weapon 743 00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:55,840 Speaker 1: of the ADS tech elite. Yeah, I can just picture 744 00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:58,120 Speaker 1: it in my mind. I mean, there is something fearsome 745 00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:01,160 Speaker 1: about the way that they're flying off these batons. When 746 00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:03,240 Speaker 1: you when you hurl it, and you know, the rotation 747 00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:05,680 Speaker 1: of the body is you do, it's a it is 748 00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:09,400 Speaker 1: a a menacing movement, let's say. And I you know, 749 00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:11,960 Speaker 1: I didn't look and I didn't read any research on this, 750 00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:15,080 Speaker 1: but it also comes to mind that if you want 751 00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:19,200 Speaker 1: to close the distance with a ranged weapon. Um. I 752 00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:22,000 Speaker 1: mean the more traditional version of this you see in 753 00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:24,480 Speaker 1: other cultures is, of course you have a mounted archer. 754 00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:28,360 Speaker 1: But there's no they wouldn't have had horses in in 755 00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:31,520 Speaker 1: Menico America pre contact, so that you know, the the 756 00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:33,920 Speaker 1: Aztecs were not using horses in battle. They were they 757 00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:37,640 Speaker 1: were all on foot. And so again another reason perhaps 758 00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:40,120 Speaker 1: the auto loaddle was again like this was the perfect 759 00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:42,480 Speaker 1: place for its use, the perfect time and place for 760 00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:45,680 Speaker 1: its continued usage in the military scenario. That's a good point. Now, 761 00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:48,160 Speaker 1: there are other comparisons between the bow and the auto 762 00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:51,160 Speaker 1: loaddle that I was also reading about in Whittaker at 763 00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:55,359 Speaker 1: all from so uh the authors here mentioned that first 764 00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:58,600 Speaker 1: of all, an arrow does travel faster than at a ladle, 765 00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:01,400 Speaker 1: so it reaches its target in less time, and it 766 00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:04,279 Speaker 1: gives the target less time to react and dodge out 767 00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:06,080 Speaker 1: of the path of the dart or arrow. So that's 768 00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:10,200 Speaker 1: a pretty clear bow advantage. You close the distance faster 769 00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:13,759 Speaker 1: and there's less time to react. Um. Also, you can 770 00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:16,800 Speaker 1: fire a bow from all kinds of positions, sitting, crouch, 771 00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:21,239 Speaker 1: standing on top of a horse. While it's more difficult 772 00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:23,480 Speaker 1: to do that with an auto lattle. I have seen images, 773 00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:26,879 Speaker 1: for example, of um of one of the you Pick 774 00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:29,640 Speaker 1: Seal hunters who's gotten auto ladle out in a in 775 00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:32,200 Speaker 1: a boat and he seems to be in a sitting position. 776 00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:34,680 Speaker 1: I don't know if he would sort of stand up 777 00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:36,840 Speaker 1: or get up on his knees to hurl it, but 778 00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:39,040 Speaker 1: he's holding it as if he's ready to throw, and 779 00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:41,680 Speaker 1: he's sitting in the boat. But it is generally true 780 00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:44,160 Speaker 1: that to get the best kind of leverage on the 781 00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:46,960 Speaker 1: auto ladle throw, you probably want to be standing. Another 782 00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:50,160 Speaker 1: point in comparison is that shooting a bow requires less 783 00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:52,719 Speaker 1: movement of the body as a whole, which means it's 784 00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:55,439 Speaker 1: less likely to alert prey. You're moving less, you're making 785 00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:57,880 Speaker 1: less sound. Yeah, you're gonna be a lot more stealthy 786 00:40:57,880 --> 00:40:59,719 Speaker 1: and against health is going to be is going to 787 00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:03,120 Speaker 1: be a key factor in any of these hunting scenarios 788 00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:05,399 Speaker 1: for sure. Though then again, I will say to come 789 00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:07,319 Speaker 1: back on the other side. When you watch some of 790 00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:13,000 Speaker 1: these skilled autolatalists using the weapon, one thing that's very 791 00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:15,960 Speaker 1: striking about it is how quiet it is. There's just 792 00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:19,120 Speaker 1: kind of this wolf of the of the you know, 793 00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:20,960 Speaker 1: if you hear the stick at all, and the dart 794 00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:25,000 Speaker 1: just sails silently until it pounds into its target, and 795 00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:28,280 Speaker 1: then that's the first real noise you hear. But anyway, 796 00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:31,480 Speaker 1: so the authors mentioned quote, these factors could be important 797 00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:35,120 Speaker 1: for individual hunting of alert prey and in warfare. However, 798 00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:39,880 Speaker 1: variations in hunting tactics such as hunting in groups and 799 00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:44,120 Speaker 1: driving prey into approachable positions, as well as tactics in warfare, 800 00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:47,480 Speaker 1: could have kept autoladdles effective and useful even after the 801 00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:49,839 Speaker 1: introduction of the bow. So I think on the other 802 00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:53,000 Speaker 1: end of the spectrum. While bows are faster and more stealthy, 803 00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:56,840 Speaker 1: autoladdles can launch heavier darts, and they can be powerful 804 00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:59,960 Speaker 1: in situations where say, a prey animal is not aware 805 00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:03,360 Speaker 1: or a few or is cornered or surrounded or something. 806 00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:05,359 Speaker 1: All right, we're gonna take one more break, and when 807 00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:07,920 Speaker 1: we come back, we're going to discuss the legacy of 808 00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:18,200 Speaker 1: the audle laddle. Alright, we're back. So how important was 809 00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:20,800 Speaker 1: the auto laddel in human history? Well, you know, I 810 00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:23,359 Speaker 1: feel like we've we've we've driven home already that we're 811 00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:25,840 Speaker 1: talking about a means of hunting. So it's a means 812 00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:30,840 Speaker 1: of survival, a means of acquiring necessary sustenance for for 813 00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:35,640 Speaker 1: one's self and one's people. Um. But in that that book, 814 00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:38,520 Speaker 1: the seventy Great Inventions of the Ancient World are brought 815 00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:41,160 Speaker 1: by Brian and Fagan. He points out that you know, 816 00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:45,080 Speaker 1: our oldest examples, you know, known examples of the autol 817 00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:47,560 Speaker 1: will take us back to the Ice Age when humans 818 00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:51,640 Speaker 1: would have used them on wild horses and reindeer. And 819 00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:54,680 Speaker 1: so the technology, if it improves your odds of landing 820 00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:58,760 Speaker 1: such prey, this is meat that could prove vital, especially 821 00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:02,240 Speaker 1: if if cured in autumn for the long winter months ahead. 822 00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:04,719 Speaker 1: So you know, you could I think you could make 823 00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:08,120 Speaker 1: a case for, like, Yeah, any technological advancement in acquiring 824 00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:10,880 Speaker 1: protein during this time, you know, could have played you know, 825 00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:13,880 Speaker 1: an important or even essential role in ensuring the survival 826 00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:17,400 Speaker 1: of the species. Yeah. I do think, uh, hunting of 827 00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:22,359 Speaker 1: megafauna was an important part of Pleistocene survival. They've got 828 00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:24,399 Speaker 1: a lot of meat on them, but they're also very 829 00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:27,040 Speaker 1: often they're dangerous to get close to, and they're hard 830 00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:29,400 Speaker 1: to kill. And there they might be tough, and they 831 00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:32,399 Speaker 1: might be you know, good at getting away from you. Yeah, 832 00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:34,920 Speaker 1: so the auto ladle was important. We already we already 833 00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:38,600 Speaker 1: mentioned the uh, you know, the various decorations that we 834 00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:41,600 Speaker 1: see on some of these remaining auto ladle and whether 835 00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:44,640 Speaker 1: these were autolattle that were you actually used or they're 836 00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:48,160 Speaker 1: purely decorative. Either way, they show that it was a 837 00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:52,359 Speaker 1: revered item, that it held an important role in their 838 00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:55,040 Speaker 1: culture at the time. That clearly does seem to be 839 00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:57,200 Speaker 1: the case with some of these highly decorated ones. On 840 00:43:57,239 --> 00:44:00,279 Speaker 1: the other hand, an interesting thing I've seen when when 841 00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:02,920 Speaker 1: you watch some of these, like uh say wild hunting 842 00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:06,279 Speaker 1: a lot of lists. Uh. One thing I've seen, at 843 00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:08,239 Speaker 1: least pointed out by a couple of them, is that 844 00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:10,360 Speaker 1: it's not that hard to make one of these in 845 00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:13,080 Speaker 1: the field. I mean you can. You can not even 846 00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:15,000 Speaker 1: have to take your weapon with you. You go out 847 00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:17,319 Speaker 1: into the field and you find the right trees, and 848 00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:19,400 Speaker 1: you can make yourself a not a lottle on some 849 00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:23,800 Speaker 1: darts pretty quickly. This would have made far more sense 850 00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:28,200 Speaker 1: in the movie Predator. Remember where Arnold Schwarzenegger's character what 851 00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:31,600 Speaker 1: was his name, where he has the scene where he 852 00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:34,080 Speaker 1: makes a giant makes it makes a high power bow 853 00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:36,640 Speaker 1: and arrow out of just stuff he finds in the jungle, 854 00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:39,319 Speaker 1: which I don't I don't know. I'm sure somebody has 855 00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:42,360 Speaker 1: sort of mythbusted this to some extent, but it always 856 00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:46,520 Speaker 1: seemed unlikely, and and and and then in later so 857 00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:49,600 Speaker 1: you know films, you know, lower budget films that were 858 00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:53,120 Speaker 1: inspired by this, you often see characters creating even crappier 859 00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:56,160 Speaker 1: looking bows and arrows out of out of the stuff 860 00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:57,920 Speaker 1: they find in the woods. Whereas, yeah, if he if 861 00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:00,279 Speaker 1: Dutch had made a not a lottle and he's that 862 00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:03,800 Speaker 1: to battle the predator, Uh, then that would have been awesome. 863 00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:06,360 Speaker 1: Why I wish that had happened. I fully agree we 864 00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:09,040 Speaker 1: should petition them to go back and make the movie 865 00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:13,759 Speaker 1: again fix this problem. Yes, um, but you know, by 866 00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:15,840 Speaker 1: the way it was talking about like the bow and 867 00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:18,040 Speaker 1: arrow coming in and to what extent it replaced the 868 00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:21,000 Speaker 1: audle laddle Um not not everyone jumped on the bow 869 00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:25,759 Speaker 1: and arrow bandwagon. Uh. Fagan also points out that Australian 870 00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:29,200 Speaker 1: Aborigines never took up the bow and arrow. Uh. They 871 00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:34,080 Speaker 1: stuck with other arranged weapon techniques, despite in some cases 872 00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:38,120 Speaker 1: definitely being in touch with other people's that used bows 873 00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:43,240 Speaker 1: and arrows, such as the Tories Straight Islanders. Um, speaking 874 00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:46,520 Speaker 1: of Australia, another ranged weapon. I'm gonna throw this in 875 00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:47,919 Speaker 1: because I don't know that we could get a full 876 00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:50,600 Speaker 1: episode out of it. Maybe we could. But the boomerang, 877 00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:53,799 Speaker 1: the boomerang is another range weapon of note, in one 878 00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:57,880 Speaker 1: with a very incomplete history. But we know it dates 879 00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:00,960 Speaker 1: back at least ten thousand years. That's the oldest evidence 880 00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:03,919 Speaker 1: we found. But as a wooden weapon, you know, very 881 00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:07,799 Speaker 1: few archaeological examples present themselves. And uh and by the way, 882 00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:12,799 Speaker 1: but we primarily associate this blunt ranged weapon with Australia, 883 00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:15,319 Speaker 1: but other parts of the world have produced artifacts that 884 00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:20,840 Speaker 1: are at least arguably possibly boomerangs. Uh so, yeah, boomerang 885 00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:24,759 Speaker 1: technology another ranged weapon that we sometimes forget about. Now. 886 00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:27,120 Speaker 1: In addition to the cultures that have continued use of 887 00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:29,560 Speaker 1: the oddle attle into the present day for hunting, such 888 00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:31,880 Speaker 1: as the example of some of the you pick people, 889 00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:34,920 Speaker 1: as we mentioned, and I think I've read about some people, uh, 890 00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:39,080 Speaker 1: some indigenous Australian people's doing this. Uh. There there are 891 00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:41,359 Speaker 1: also just tons of people who have taken up use 892 00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:44,880 Speaker 1: of the audle lottle recreationally. It's something that has I 893 00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:47,000 Speaker 1: think gotten I don't know that it seems to have 894 00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:49,440 Speaker 1: been a surge in interest in in this in the 895 00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:52,920 Speaker 1: past few decades. Oh yeah, again, there are lots of 896 00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:55,719 Speaker 1: YouTube videos, and I definitely recommend anyone who's interested in 897 00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:57,439 Speaker 1: seeing one of these actions to check out a few. 898 00:46:57,480 --> 00:46:59,319 Speaker 1: Make sure you check out a few, does you know, 899 00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:03,480 Speaker 1: sort of find the ones um. But there's also, for instance, 900 00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:07,040 Speaker 1: the World Autolto Association. Uh you can find them at 901 00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:10,080 Speaker 1: World out a laddle dot org aut Alado. By the way, 902 00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:12,400 Speaker 1: if you're not aware from the title of the episode, 903 00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:14,560 Speaker 1: if you haven't seen it in print, uh, it is 904 00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:16,880 Speaker 1: a t L A t L. I think I might 905 00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:18,960 Speaker 1: have said that earlier, but if I didn't, just just 906 00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:21,680 Speaker 1: in case, we're gonna drive that home. So that's World 907 00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:24,560 Speaker 1: a t l a t l dot org. And they 908 00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:27,760 Speaker 1: highly they track events and projects across the United States 909 00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:30,359 Speaker 1: and parts of Europe. Uh. So we're talking about just 910 00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:33,239 Speaker 1: you know, casual throws, you know, a chance to to 911 00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:36,400 Speaker 1: try out on auto ladle uh you know, school children, 912 00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:41,080 Speaker 1: scout groups, etcetera. Serious competitions among a lot of enthusiasts, 913 00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:42,920 Speaker 1: as well as classes about how to make and not 914 00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:46,080 Speaker 1: a loto or use it. UM as far as I 915 00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:49,719 Speaker 1: can tell. However, there's no Atlanta based organization, which is 916 00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:52,560 Speaker 1: a shame because that would be what the Atlanta Autolatdal 917 00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:57,520 Speaker 1: Association a t l A t l A t l Uh. 918 00:47:57,560 --> 00:47:59,720 Speaker 1: But hey, maybe it's out there and I just didn't 919 00:47:59,719 --> 00:48:02,239 Speaker 1: find it. Or maybe maybe you listening out there in 920 00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:05,400 Speaker 1: the Atlanta area you will, you'll you'll start it and 921 00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:07,680 Speaker 1: uh invite Joe and I to go check it out. 922 00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:10,040 Speaker 1: I'm trying to find the outcast. Joke in here is 923 00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:12,719 Speaker 1: like the people who remember of that organization or the 924 00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:17,040 Speaker 1: Audle Audle a t Aliens. That could work, That could work. Now, 925 00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:21,439 Speaker 1: we mentioned Dietrich Stout earlier, who we interviewed on Stuff 926 00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:25,400 Speaker 1: to Blow Your Mind the other podcast about about about 927 00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:30,080 Speaker 1: stone age technology, uh and particularly the hand acts. But 928 00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:32,640 Speaker 1: one of the areas we got into discussing him was like, 929 00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:37,480 Speaker 1: what is the connection between um, these tools that we're 930 00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:40,040 Speaker 1: using and the way we're manipulating them and building them 931 00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:44,200 Speaker 1: and uh in the human mind? Oh yeah, Now, he 932 00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:48,160 Speaker 1: was talking about some ideas about possible connections between I think, uh, 933 00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:51,840 Speaker 1: the language modules in the brain and the ways that 934 00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:56,239 Speaker 1: we construct stone tools. They're also just interesting things to 935 00:48:56,280 --> 00:48:59,080 Speaker 1: think about. I was looking at a paper um from 936 00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:03,320 Speaker 1: Frontiers and Sidecology in eighteen that's just charting a connection 937 00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:07,600 Speaker 1: between the development of different types of weapons technology across 938 00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:09,880 Speaker 1: the human history. You know, a lot of it is 939 00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:13,600 Speaker 1: like a stone Age human history and the development of 940 00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:18,400 Speaker 1: different levels of causal cognition in humans, meaning like you know, 941 00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:22,920 Speaker 1: showing that we understand causes and effects beyond our immediate 942 00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:26,799 Speaker 1: moment and physical body projected across space and time into 943 00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:29,799 Speaker 1: the future. And it's interesting to think about, like the 944 00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:34,120 Speaker 1: different weapons technologies coming along over time, always just extending 945 00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:36,920 Speaker 1: farther and farther out in time and space from the body. 946 00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:39,960 Speaker 1: So you've got first, like you know, thrusting spears that 947 00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:43,040 Speaker 1: extend the reach of the body, and then throwing spears 948 00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:45,399 Speaker 1: that extend it further, and then the addle addel which 949 00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:47,840 Speaker 1: extends it even further, but also adds in these abstract 950 00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:51,480 Speaker 1: elements of sort of inanimate causal understanding, like you understand 951 00:49:51,520 --> 00:49:54,720 Speaker 1: that the lever in your hand will increase the power 952 00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:57,320 Speaker 1: of the throw even though the spear is no longer 953 00:49:57,400 --> 00:50:00,200 Speaker 1: in your hand when that happens. And then of course 954 00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:03,040 Speaker 1: you've got ideas about like stored energy and the tension 955 00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:05,880 Speaker 1: of a bow and then even beyond that, ideas that 956 00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:10,200 Speaker 1: go beyond beyond the present moment, by say, using poisoned 957 00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:13,640 Speaker 1: arrow tips, you know, that's extending the causality of the 958 00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:16,759 Speaker 1: weapon further into time. And basically the authors here just 959 00:50:16,840 --> 00:50:19,480 Speaker 1: point out that, you know, this further and further and 960 00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:23,640 Speaker 1: further extension away in time and space from the physical body, uh, 961 00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:27,719 Speaker 1: mirrors the timeline of development of all these technologies. And 962 00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:29,719 Speaker 1: so I thought that was kind of interesting, interesting, And 963 00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:31,759 Speaker 1: then of course we also have to think about the 964 00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:34,200 Speaker 1: name of it makes me think too about how our 965 00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:37,520 Speaker 1: our tools end up being metaphors for our understanding of 966 00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:41,920 Speaker 1: the world. So like the the the arrow itself, I mean, 967 00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:45,279 Speaker 1: we think about like the arrow of time, um, you know, 968 00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:48,360 Speaker 1: to to what extent of these various technologies end up 969 00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:51,239 Speaker 1: allowing us, giving us the sort of the the metaphorical 970 00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:54,120 Speaker 1: fodder to then have these more complex thoughts about how 971 00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:56,160 Speaker 1: the world works. This is something that comes up a 972 00:50:56,200 --> 00:50:59,760 Speaker 1: lot on this show about like the most fundamental technologies 973 00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:03,520 Speaker 1: end up becoming so much more than technology. They become 974 00:51:04,040 --> 00:51:08,080 Speaker 1: the shapes with which we envision abstract elements of our lives, 975 00:51:08,560 --> 00:51:11,239 Speaker 1: you know, like the the wheel becoming so much more 976 00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:14,640 Speaker 1: than just a transportation technology that it's like one of 977 00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:18,520 Speaker 1: our most fruitful metaphors in all of language. And arrows 978 00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:21,240 Speaker 1: are another thing like that, arrows and spears. Think about 979 00:51:21,239 --> 00:51:24,800 Speaker 1: how much there's this, uh, the the idea of missing 980 00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:27,719 Speaker 1: the mark or being on target, you know, like with 981 00:51:27,800 --> 00:51:30,000 Speaker 1: an arrow or spear. You're you're talking about trying to 982 00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:33,520 Speaker 1: hit your target at arranged distance. I think about how 983 00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:36,880 Speaker 1: in the theological domain, I believe the word in Greek 984 00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:40,600 Speaker 1: that's like used for sin in Christianity. The Greek word 985 00:51:40,680 --> 00:51:43,839 Speaker 1: is hamartia, which literally means to miss the mark, as 986 00:51:43,880 --> 00:51:46,320 Speaker 1: if like you know, like your spear does not connect 987 00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:49,040 Speaker 1: with its target. I know that this reminds me of 988 00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:52,279 Speaker 1: the episode we did about Cupid's arrow for stuff to 989 00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:55,320 Speaker 1: blow your mind, and uh, you know, you think about 990 00:51:55,320 --> 00:51:57,440 Speaker 1: what it is to be hit with an arrow, or 991 00:51:57,640 --> 00:51:59,279 Speaker 1: to see one hit with an arrow. It is for 992 00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:02,680 Speaker 1: this physical attack to come perhaps even out of nowhere, 993 00:52:02,920 --> 00:52:05,160 Speaker 1: like you don't see where it launched from. It's just 994 00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:08,480 Speaker 1: like the arrow appears lodged in the individual. The wound 995 00:52:08,880 --> 00:52:12,640 Speaker 1: just happens, which is you know, probably you know, it 996 00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:14,920 Speaker 1: seems seems close to the metaphor that's being made for 997 00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:17,759 Speaker 1: being struck by love? Is that? Like, I don't know 998 00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:20,080 Speaker 1: where it came from, but now it's here, and I'm 999 00:52:20,080 --> 00:52:25,080 Speaker 1: bleeding the new tagline of this podcast. Now it's here, 1000 00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:27,759 Speaker 1: and I'm bleeding every time there's a new episode. Well, 1001 00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:32,560 Speaker 1: the thing too about just how attractive the idea of 1002 00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:35,080 Speaker 1: of certainly the bow and arrow, but then perhaps to 1003 00:52:35,160 --> 00:52:37,120 Speaker 1: some extent, the spear, but mostly the bow and arrow. 1004 00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:40,239 Speaker 1: How we keep coming back to that in our not 1005 00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:43,719 Speaker 1: only our stories and our myths, but our popular media. Like, 1006 00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:46,160 Speaker 1: think of all the things that are popular right now, 1007 00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:48,359 Speaker 1: almost all of them have a bow and arrow in them. 1008 00:52:49,080 --> 00:52:51,000 Speaker 1: A Game of Thrones full of bows and arrows, and 1009 00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:55,680 Speaker 1: even spear throws, ridiculous spear throws. They have no basis 1010 00:52:55,719 --> 00:52:59,600 Speaker 1: on physics. Um, but then you look at say the 1011 00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:03,040 Speaker 1: Marvel movies, you have an archer in in there as well. 1012 00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:06,839 Speaker 1: I forgot about that. What Hawkeye? The DC World they 1013 00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:09,560 Speaker 1: have a green arrow and that's been going on for 1014 00:53:10,160 --> 00:53:13,960 Speaker 1: multiple seasons. Wait is it not green lantern? No, No, 1015 00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:16,200 Speaker 1: there's green arrow. Oh there's both of them. Yeah, they 1016 00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:19,200 Speaker 1: got two green people, they do, and green arrow has 1017 00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:22,120 Speaker 1: is actually archery based, and they're like supporting characters that 1018 00:53:22,239 --> 00:53:25,000 Speaker 1: also have bow and arrows. So and even just like 1019 00:53:25,360 --> 00:53:27,320 Speaker 1: you know, you, like you bring a child to a 1020 00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:29,440 Speaker 1: Renaissance festival, they do the thing where they're shooting the 1021 00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:32,040 Speaker 1: bow and arrows like, and the child wants to try 1022 00:53:32,080 --> 00:53:34,080 Speaker 1: it out like they they say, see it and they 1023 00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:36,880 Speaker 1: want to do it like we have a connection. As 1024 00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:38,920 Speaker 1: if there isn't some sort of an innate connection that 1025 00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:42,319 Speaker 1: we have with these technologies. Man if Marvel thinks it's 1026 00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:45,160 Speaker 1: a superpower to be able to shoot a bow and arrow, good, 1027 00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:47,399 Speaker 1: imagine what they would have thought of, like an army 1028 00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:52,759 Speaker 1: of archers. These are all superheroes. I wonder if there 1029 00:53:52,760 --> 00:53:55,240 Speaker 1: are any superheroes that use aut of lodels or indeed, 1030 00:53:55,320 --> 00:53:58,279 Speaker 1: is there a scene in a film, uh that that 1031 00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:02,880 Speaker 1: actually depicts a little loaddle you? Perhaps I'm forgetting one. Um. 1032 00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:04,360 Speaker 1: I know there have been, you know there there have 1033 00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:07,680 Speaker 1: been some notable films that deal with you know, pre 1034 00:54:07,840 --> 00:54:11,640 Speaker 1: contact meso America or or you know, we're more more 1035 00:54:11,680 --> 00:54:14,920 Speaker 1: ancient people's But I am not recalling a good autolatal 1036 00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:17,400 Speaker 1: scene offhand. Yeah, I mean, I don't say this to 1037 00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:20,840 Speaker 1: glorify violence, but as far as a like a mechanical invention, 1038 00:54:20,920 --> 00:54:23,640 Speaker 1: it is a beautiful weapon. So if you if you 1039 00:54:23,719 --> 00:54:26,200 Speaker 1: know of any examples of this, please right in and 1040 00:54:26,280 --> 00:54:28,040 Speaker 1: let us know. I would love to know what movie 1041 00:54:28,080 --> 00:54:30,800 Speaker 1: I need to check out to see hopefully an accurate 1042 00:54:30,840 --> 00:54:33,640 Speaker 1: depiction of how an auto ladle is used, or hey, 1043 00:54:33,719 --> 00:54:36,560 Speaker 1: have you used an autolattle, whether you know, whether it's 1044 00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:39,000 Speaker 1: like a part of your cultural heritage, or whether you 1045 00:54:39,160 --> 00:54:41,719 Speaker 1: just experimented with one. We'd like to hear about that. Oh, 1046 00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:43,799 Speaker 1: I know, I know some listeners out there have used 1047 00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:45,560 Speaker 1: an auto lottle. In fact, I'm gonna go ahead and 1048 00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:49,239 Speaker 1: I'm gonna guess. I'm gonna guess that we hear from. 1049 00:54:49,480 --> 00:54:53,320 Speaker 1: I'm gonna say five people who have used on autoladle. 1050 00:54:53,880 --> 00:54:56,520 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna may be off on that, but I'm 1051 00:54:56,520 --> 00:54:59,000 Speaker 1: gonna just guess five people, and well we'll find out 1052 00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:01,840 Speaker 1: in a future listening episode if I'm accurate on that. 1053 00:55:02,040 --> 00:55:04,440 Speaker 1: Here's something I'm curious about from people who have used 1054 00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:07,719 Speaker 1: in ludel attle. What was the experience of accuracy like, 1055 00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:11,120 Speaker 1: especially when compared to your intuitions before using it for 1056 00:55:11,160 --> 00:55:13,880 Speaker 1: the first time. Was it easier than you would have 1057 00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:16,879 Speaker 1: expected to hit your target to hit your target with it, 1058 00:55:17,200 --> 00:55:19,440 Speaker 1: or was it harder than you would have expected, right, 1059 00:55:19,520 --> 00:55:22,160 Speaker 1: and then can you compare it to other arranged weapon 1060 00:55:22,360 --> 00:55:25,280 Speaker 1: uses like, for instance, have had you used a bow before, 1061 00:55:25,280 --> 00:55:26,799 Speaker 1: and how would you compare it to the experience of 1062 00:55:26,880 --> 00:55:30,040 Speaker 1: using a bow or the experience of throwing a spear, um, 1063 00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:32,960 Speaker 1: you know, outright without any kind of mechanical aid. So 1064 00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:35,200 Speaker 1: there you have it, the audle addle. Uh. Yeah, that's 1065 00:55:35,239 --> 00:55:37,600 Speaker 1: a really fun one to look into, in part because 1066 00:55:37,719 --> 00:55:40,279 Speaker 1: I feel like the audle addle is often kind of 1067 00:55:40,760 --> 00:55:44,359 Speaker 1: you know, glossed over in our in our histories and 1068 00:55:44,360 --> 00:55:47,160 Speaker 1: and you know, even in our museum sometimes. And in 1069 00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:48,960 Speaker 1: part of that too is you know that we have 1070 00:55:49,080 --> 00:55:51,520 Speaker 1: not historically had that great of an understanding of what 1071 00:55:51,600 --> 00:55:55,640 Speaker 1: these were and how they were utilized. Um. But hey, yeah, 1072 00:55:55,680 --> 00:55:58,000 Speaker 1: it's always fun to discuss what we can't help but 1073 00:55:58,080 --> 00:56:02,640 Speaker 1: discuss military technologies along the way, uh, and or hunting technologies, 1074 00:56:02,680 --> 00:56:05,360 Speaker 1: you know, weapons. So I it does make me wonder 1075 00:56:05,680 --> 00:56:08,959 Speaker 1: what other weapons would you like to hear us cover 1076 00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:12,279 Speaker 1: on invention? Or how about armor? Would you like to 1077 00:56:12,320 --> 00:56:14,719 Speaker 1: hear us do an entire episode on body armor and 1078 00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:17,600 Speaker 1: how that has uh, where that originates, and how that 1079 00:56:17,680 --> 00:56:21,520 Speaker 1: has been implemented in different cultures? Around the world and 1080 00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:24,759 Speaker 1: and how it changes humanity. Robert and I were talking 1081 00:56:24,760 --> 00:56:27,239 Speaker 1: about armor before we came in today. I think that's 1082 00:56:27,239 --> 00:56:29,880 Speaker 1: a good candidate coming up. All right, Well, if you 1083 00:56:29,880 --> 00:56:32,200 Speaker 1: want to check out more episodes of Invention, you can 1084 00:56:32,200 --> 00:56:34,279 Speaker 1: head on over to invention pod dot com. That's the 1085 00:56:34,960 --> 00:56:37,399 Speaker 1: that's the main website for the show. You can also 1086 00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:39,800 Speaker 1: find us wherever you get your podcast, and hey, wherever 1087 00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:41,960 Speaker 1: you do get your podcast, we just ask a few 1088 00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:44,400 Speaker 1: things off you. Um, if you would make sure you've 1089 00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:47,680 Speaker 1: subscribed to the show, that obviously helps us out. Also 1090 00:56:47,840 --> 00:56:49,560 Speaker 1: rate and review us if you have the power to 1091 00:56:49,560 --> 00:56:51,520 Speaker 1: do so, if you can throw us you know, the 1092 00:56:51,560 --> 00:56:54,200 Speaker 1: maximum number of stars, and a few nice words. That 1093 00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:57,399 Speaker 1: helps things out immensely huge things as always to our 1094 00:56:57,440 --> 00:57:00,640 Speaker 1: excellent audio producer Terry Harrison. If you'd like to get 1095 00:57:00,640 --> 00:57:02,800 Speaker 1: in touch with us with feedback on this episode or 1096 00:57:02,800 --> 00:57:05,160 Speaker 1: any other, to suggest a topic for the future, or 1097 00:57:05,239 --> 00:57:08,319 Speaker 1: just to say hello, you can email us at contact 1098 00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:16,320 Speaker 1: at invention pod dot com. Invention is production of I 1099 00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:19,160 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio because 1100 00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:21,840 Speaker 1: the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 1101 00:57:21,880 --> 00:57:22,760 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.