WEBVTT - The Whistleblowers 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:05.120 Trigger warning death and descriptions of the dead. Please listen 0:00:05.160 --> 0:00:05.600 with care. 0:00:13.880 --> 0:00:16.439 Lucy let Be was a whistleblower. She probably didn't realize 0:00:16.480 --> 0:00:20.880 it at the time, but she was because she recognized 0:00:20.920 --> 0:00:21.880 issues in that unit. 0:00:23.280 --> 0:00:28.640 This is Martin Pittman, a retired consultant, obstetrician and gynecologist 0:00:29.040 --> 0:00:30.960 and NHS whistleblower. 0:00:31.880 --> 0:00:35.840 She raised concerns, she repeatedly put in datech forms when 0:00:35.880 --> 0:00:40.279 she recognized significant issues, and she put in aggrievance as 0:00:40.280 --> 0:00:42.680 a junior in there, she put in agrievance against two 0:00:42.720 --> 0:00:46.120 senior consultants. So all of that, all of those are 0:00:46.120 --> 0:00:47.480 whistleblowing events. 0:00:49.560 --> 0:00:54.080 In twenty sixteen, before there were any criminal charges, Lucy 0:00:54.160 --> 0:00:57.200 let Be took on these consultants after they had had 0:00:57.200 --> 0:01:00.960 her removed from clinical duties on the neonatal ward. She 0:01:01.120 --> 0:01:03.640 fought back with an employment grievance. 0:01:05.520 --> 0:01:08.360 From Lucy Letbe's perspective, and I think it's underplay the 0:01:08.400 --> 0:01:11.360 fact that and this is why it never got anywhere 0:01:11.400 --> 0:01:15.120 near her trial was to be brave enough as a 0:01:15.200 --> 0:01:18.680 junior nurse to submit a grievance against two senior consultants 0:01:19.040 --> 0:01:23.920 was an incredible achievement. To win that in an NHS 0:01:23.920 --> 0:01:28.720 trust was unprecedented, absolutely unprecedented. 0:01:31.680 --> 0:01:35.360 There is a playbook for how whistleblowing cases often play out, 0:01:35.800 --> 0:01:39.560 and Martin's story unfolds in a very typical way. In 0:01:39.640 --> 0:01:44.000 twenty nineteen, as Lucy Letbee's case was raging on, Martin 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:48.320 was experiencing his own courtroom drama in tribunal with his 0:01:48.440 --> 0:01:52.720 own hospital when it merged with another local NHS trust. 0:01:53.440 --> 0:01:57.360 He had noticed an increase of poor outcomes on his ward. 0:01:58.640 --> 0:02:01.640 I very vividly remember the moment when I decided that 0:02:01.680 --> 0:02:05.400 I had to act. A baby was injured that I 0:02:05.520 --> 0:02:08.520 know for certain that could have been avoided. And it 0:02:08.600 --> 0:02:11.680 was that happening in a close or the temper association 0:02:11.880 --> 0:02:14.480 with a number of our very best midwife saying to 0:02:14.560 --> 0:02:16.960 me that they were so disheartened with how the unit 0:02:17.000 --> 0:02:18.919 was being run that they were going to leave. 0:02:19.840 --> 0:02:22.720 Out of concern for patient care and for the well 0:02:22.760 --> 0:02:26.119 being of the midwives in his department. He spoke up 0:02:26.639 --> 0:02:30.560 calling for a meeting with the head of Midwiffrey. From 0:02:30.600 --> 0:02:35.040 here things got increasingly worse. A complaint was made about Martin. 0:02:35.600 --> 0:02:38.919 Martin took out a grievance against the hospital. He then 0:02:39.040 --> 0:02:42.280 got taken off the ward and isolated from his colleagues. 0:02:42.880 --> 0:02:45.640 If you've been following the Lucy let Be case, you'll 0:02:45.680 --> 0:02:50.320 recognize the parallels. Whistleblowers have a name for what they 0:02:50.320 --> 0:02:54.600 believe is happening in this process. They call it darvo. 0:02:55.320 --> 0:02:59.520 There's this thing called darva darvo, which is a technique 0:02:59.560 --> 0:03:03.000 that's the play against whistle blowers. They deny the issues 0:03:03.000 --> 0:03:06.880 that you've raised. Then the AA is attack or accused, 0:03:06.880 --> 0:03:09.880 so they basically accuse you of exactly what you have 0:03:10.200 --> 0:03:13.880 accused the organization about, and then they use techniques to 0:03:14.000 --> 0:03:18.240 reverse the victim and offender. So the RVO, I was 0:03:18.320 --> 0:03:22.000 the victim raising the whistleblowing concerns, but they made me 0:03:22.280 --> 0:03:24.600 or they tried to make me the offender, that I 0:03:24.760 --> 0:03:29.320 was the problem. And that's an absolutely textbook approach by 0:03:29.560 --> 0:03:33.760 NHS trusts to get rid of challenging individuals, which is 0:03:34.240 --> 0:03:34.800 what I was. 0:03:36.080 --> 0:03:40.360 If darvo doesn't silence a whistleblower, there's another move in 0:03:40.400 --> 0:03:41.000 the playbook. 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:44.680 If they can't get rid of you for gross professional 0:03:45.040 --> 0:03:48.119 misconduct and that they can't get you on an inability 0:03:48.160 --> 0:03:51.040 for you to do your job anymore, then there's this 0:03:51.120 --> 0:03:54.960 gray area. It's called SOSR or some other substantial reason, 0:03:55.600 --> 0:03:59.800 which is basically a legal EAES term that enables organizations 0:03:59.840 --> 0:04:05.280 to dispose of troublesome individuals. So they basically manufactured the 0:04:05.400 --> 0:04:09.080 belief that my position was untenable because my relationship with 0:04:09.160 --> 0:04:12.000 the trust senior management had become untenable. 0:04:13.200 --> 0:04:16.800 When this final move was made, Martin Pittman lost his 0:04:16.960 --> 0:04:21.000 case and his job. It did not matter that he 0:04:21.040 --> 0:04:25.400 had decades of experience as a successful obstetrician, or that 0:04:25.520 --> 0:04:29.200 a judge had officially recognized that he'd whistle blown in 0:04:29.279 --> 0:04:33.599 the interest of the public. Since then, Martin has become 0:04:33.600 --> 0:04:36.520 a supporter of other NHS whistleblowers. 0:04:37.680 --> 0:04:41.039 I've been in contact with tragically lots of whistleblowers since 0:04:41.040 --> 0:04:42.960 what happened to me, just to give advice and to 0:04:43.680 --> 0:04:45.920 console people that have been through a similar thing. They 0:04:45.920 --> 0:04:50.159 crossed the spectrum of different areas of professions and levels 0:04:50.160 --> 0:04:53.880 of seniority. I don't think any group of NHS staff 0:04:53.880 --> 0:04:56.080 are immune to I mean the recent case of the 0:04:56.160 --> 0:04:59.040 porters in the counter sug good luck to them because 0:04:59.080 --> 0:05:01.880 they whistle blue co and perceived a trust are in 0:05:01.960 --> 0:05:05.840 employment tribunal and they didn't have legal representations. 0:05:07.000 --> 0:05:11.320 Two hospital porters blew the whistle on improper conditions at 0:05:11.320 --> 0:05:15.200 the Countess of Chester Hospital, the very same hospital that 0:05:15.240 --> 0:05:20.080 went after Lucy after she filed a grievance. In April 0:05:20.080 --> 0:05:24.400 of this year. A judge oversaw their case. I took 0:05:24.440 --> 0:05:27.560 the train from London to Chester to find out how 0:05:27.600 --> 0:05:33.480 it all unfolded. This is doubt the Case of Lucy 0:05:33.560 --> 0:06:00.880 let be bonus Episode five, The Whistleblowers. I've come to 0:06:00.960 --> 0:06:05.200 Chester to visit John Creighton and Tom Jones, porters from 0:06:05.240 --> 0:06:08.760 the Countess of Chester Hospital. We take our seats in 0:06:08.839 --> 0:06:12.800 John's sky blue living room, which had become something of 0:06:12.880 --> 0:06:15.640 a situation room over recent months. 0:06:18.240 --> 0:06:19.800 We've done all our case in here. 0:06:20.839 --> 0:06:21.920 Mission control, wasn't it. 0:06:21.960 --> 0:06:25.200 Yeah it was, Yeah, It's like Leslie Park at one point. Yeah, 0:06:25.480 --> 0:06:27.840 So we went. We went to ground many times and 0:06:27.920 --> 0:06:31.000 we had to say, look, we need we need four 0:06:31.080 --> 0:06:34.280 days and we were sort of seven am till the 0:06:34.320 --> 0:06:36.520 early hour, was preparing prepping. 0:06:37.200 --> 0:06:42.320 We used a ah, well, yeah, sometimes it's not always accurately, 0:06:42.400 --> 0:06:45.000 not quite right, and sometimes it gets confused, doesn't it 0:06:45.000 --> 0:06:47.640 when you load it up? Because it was so contracted 0:06:48.120 --> 0:06:50.880 the case, there were so many different elements to it. 0:06:50.880 --> 0:06:53.440 It was quite easy to confuse the computer, wasn't it. 0:06:53.520 --> 0:06:56.520 Yeah, so we did upgrade. We treated ourselves for the 0:06:56.560 --> 0:07:01.320 eighteen pounds a month Gemini I mean the lawyers. 0:07:01.400 --> 0:07:05.160 Yeah, well we were both financially challenged. John supports a 0:07:05.240 --> 0:07:08.160 family and you know, I've got my own issues at home, 0:07:08.240 --> 0:07:12.720 so yeah, we didn't really have legal representative finance available 0:07:12.760 --> 0:07:12.960 to it. 0:07:14.080 --> 0:07:18.160 John as an experienced porter. This role is often called 0:07:18.240 --> 0:07:21.920 a patient transporter in the US, but the UK version 0:07:22.120 --> 0:07:25.600 is a little broader than just moving patients. As a 0:07:25.640 --> 0:07:29.480 hospital porter in the UK, you're expected to deliver equipment 0:07:29.600 --> 0:07:33.280 and supplies where they're needed, to move patients between different 0:07:33.280 --> 0:07:37.000 sections of the hospital, and to deliver deceased patients to 0:07:37.080 --> 0:07:41.240 the hospital mortuary. John moved into the health sector during 0:07:41.280 --> 0:07:45.160 the pandemic as a porter for a hospital in nearby Wrexham. 0:07:45.600 --> 0:07:49.240 I've worked at a different hospital and it's just a 0:07:49.240 --> 0:07:51.680 better way of doing it and it was safer and 0:07:51.840 --> 0:07:52.800 it was better for the. 0:07:52.800 --> 0:07:57.160 Staff wanting to travel less for work. He eventually moved 0:07:57.200 --> 0:07:59.440 to do the same job at the Countess of Chester, 0:08:00.160 --> 0:08:04.520 but here he found that the job expectations and conditions 0:08:04.960 --> 0:08:09.120 were worrying, especially when it came to moving dead bodies, 0:08:09.640 --> 0:08:13.960 and this is where things got pretty dark at the Countess. 0:08:14.360 --> 0:08:16.560 You knew and I'm like, are you allowed to all 0:08:16.640 --> 0:08:20.360 right with this? Because there's a better way of doing this, 0:08:20.720 --> 0:08:21.160 And they. 0:08:21.240 --> 0:08:22.520 Describe the conditions. 0:08:23.600 --> 0:08:27.400 You'd be walking around the hospital doing more transfers and 0:08:27.440 --> 0:08:29.440 A and E transfers and stuff like that, and you 0:08:29.480 --> 0:08:31.920 could just sort of you might open a door or 0:08:31.960 --> 0:08:34.880 peek behind a curtain and they're just people are just 0:08:34.960 --> 0:08:37.400 laid out. They haven't even been prepared yet. 0:08:37.960 --> 0:08:40.760 You get the job, so you turn up to do 0:08:40.880 --> 0:08:44.160 the job, and then when you get there, everyone's just 0:08:44.200 --> 0:08:47.480 got a blue curtain. And then that's how they do it. 0:08:48.040 --> 0:08:50.160 Unless you don't it, it would just be something dead. 0:08:51.760 --> 0:08:54.600 They tell me, roughly twenty percent of the time they'd 0:08:54.640 --> 0:08:58.080 be asked to transport a body before it was fully 0:08:58.120 --> 0:09:02.040 prepared to be moved, meaning the bodies were not covered 0:09:02.080 --> 0:09:07.000 properly in body bags, nor was appropriate personal protective equipment 0:09:07.120 --> 0:09:11.600 provided to the porters to safeguard against potential infection or 0:09:11.679 --> 0:09:15.520 splashback from the bodies they were asked to move and 0:09:15.559 --> 0:09:18.800 beyond their own safety, there was also the dignity of 0:09:18.840 --> 0:09:22.040 the deceased to think of but the deaths in the 0:09:22.120 --> 0:09:25.800 hospital were not the main issue for them. Their main 0:09:25.920 --> 0:09:30.079 problem was deaths in the community people who had died 0:09:30.280 --> 0:09:34.319 outside of the hospital. Dealing with any dead body can 0:09:34.360 --> 0:09:39.640 be emotional and triggering, but these deaths were often more harrowing. 0:09:41.480 --> 0:09:44.840 Sometimes you get situations in a military setting way you 0:09:44.920 --> 0:09:49.120 never forget it. There was a suicide who some ladder 0:09:49.200 --> 0:09:51.880 jumped in front of a chain at a nearby train station. 0:09:53.200 --> 0:09:58.839 Any had dislocated shoulder and a head injury where it 0:09:58.880 --> 0:10:01.559 was open and was exposed, and he was brought It 0:10:01.600 --> 0:10:05.920 was raining that night, so the British Transport Police didn't 0:10:05.920 --> 0:10:10.000 have chance to tag him and still and prepare him 0:10:10.000 --> 0:10:13.440 for transport. So their plan was to get him in 0:10:13.480 --> 0:10:15.360 where it was dry and do it in the mortuary. 0:10:15.400 --> 0:10:17.319 But you've got to be there. You can't just leave 0:10:17.400 --> 0:10:20.720 them in the mortuary. You've got to supervise then be 0:10:20.760 --> 0:10:22.920 in there and then you know, wave them off and 0:10:23.080 --> 0:10:26.640 shut the door. It was just like a security measure, really, 0:10:27.360 --> 0:10:29.200 and they brought him in and he was in like 0:10:29.240 --> 0:10:32.959 a shell suit. So we managed to sort of slid 0:10:33.040 --> 0:10:36.000 him off their table onto one of ours, slid him 0:10:36.000 --> 0:10:37.720 into the fridge, shut the door. 0:10:39.160 --> 0:10:41.800 Tom, who was a more senior porter at the time, 0:10:42.320 --> 0:10:46.719 always found himself shaken up, particularly when younger people were 0:10:46.760 --> 0:10:49.840 brought in who had clearly come to a tragic end. 0:10:51.160 --> 0:10:55.040 Yeah, it just affected me. So I was trying to 0:10:55.080 --> 0:10:56.840 delete it out of my brain and put him in 0:10:56.880 --> 0:10:59.960 the fridge and I just had five minutes to recompose 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:03.280 as myself and then the phone rang again. 0:11:05.240 --> 0:11:08.720 The transport police tell Tom there is an issue. The 0:11:08.760 --> 0:11:13.280 deceased young man may have been assuming another identity, so. 0:11:13.320 --> 0:11:15.679 We need to come back and try and identify him. 0:11:15.720 --> 0:11:19.000 So we can go back and tell his mum. 0:11:19.400 --> 0:11:24.319 Mortuary technicians should be on call. Assisting with identifying bodies. 0:11:24.440 --> 0:11:27.800 Is above the pay grade of a hospital porter. So 0:11:28.080 --> 0:11:29.560 Tom picks up the phone. 0:11:30.200 --> 0:11:34.160 I've phoned the Uncle Moutree technician and he said, oh, 0:11:34.200 --> 0:11:36.280 I've just add a glass of wine or something. And 0:11:36.320 --> 0:11:39.319 it was like three o'clock in the morning and he said, 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:42.400 just stand there, don't do anything, you'd be all right, 0:11:43.000 --> 0:11:46.400 just supervised. Transport police had arrived, pulled him back out 0:11:46.440 --> 0:11:49.720 the fridge and they needed to identify him by a 0:11:49.800 --> 0:11:52.520 tattoo that he had on his shoulder and it was 0:11:52.559 --> 0:11:58.200 on the arm that was dislocated the shoulder and every 0:11:58.240 --> 0:12:02.480 time we tried to the arm just flopped. Would you 0:12:02.600 --> 0:12:06.720 just hold his hand while we go up with the scissors. 0:12:07.800 --> 0:12:10.120 I think, gloves on and everything, but it's just it's 0:12:10.160 --> 0:12:13.320 just not nice. It wasn't nice at all. So, yeah, 0:12:13.480 --> 0:12:16.400 that was my experience of just seeing things that I 0:12:16.440 --> 0:12:19.559 shouldn't really see. 0:12:18.480 --> 0:12:21.920 Someone who lives fifty yards from me and you don't know, 0:12:21.960 --> 0:12:24.360 and you never know who people are, of course, but 0:12:24.960 --> 0:12:28.120 as I look down, they actually and it's such a shock, 0:12:28.200 --> 0:12:31.040 isn't it when you see someone you know? But obviously 0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:32.719 everyone's got loads of stories. 0:12:34.000 --> 0:12:37.080 The staff who usually work in the mortuary would typically 0:12:37.160 --> 0:12:40.640 keep nine to five hours, leaving the porters to deal 0:12:40.679 --> 0:12:43.719 with any bodies that came into the hospital on evenings 0:12:43.760 --> 0:12:45.720 and weekends, so there. 0:12:45.640 --> 0:12:49.000 Is a bleak for the pathologists. They should come out. 0:12:49.320 --> 0:12:51.280 There's no ifs of but they should come out. If 0:12:51.280 --> 0:12:53.720 someone dies in the community, they should do it. I 0:12:53.720 --> 0:12:55.960 think it was just over generations. It might have been 0:12:56.720 --> 0:12:59.079 you lads couldn't do this for an hour, and you know, 0:12:59.160 --> 0:13:01.960 our things progress, yes, before you know it, they're doing 0:13:02.000 --> 0:13:04.920 it all the time. So for instance, even at Easter, 0:13:05.280 --> 0:13:08.559 there's nobody in for four days solid, not date or 0:13:08.679 --> 0:13:09.480 night not in. 0:13:10.640 --> 0:13:13.880 The pair had concerns about what they were being expected 0:13:13.920 --> 0:13:18.600 to do jobs typically reserved for more trained positions like 0:13:18.800 --> 0:13:22.880 mortuary technicians, as well as the conditions under which they 0:13:22.880 --> 0:13:26.720 were expected to perform, and their issues were racking up. 0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:30.079 They were being asked to move bodies that had been 0:13:30.200 --> 0:13:35.360 dead for many months without proper ppe or any testing 0:13:35.440 --> 0:13:39.440 done to ensure the bodies weren't infectious. They were told 0:13:39.559 --> 0:13:45.080 to unwrap the deceased and remove personal effects, including jewelry 0:13:45.200 --> 0:13:49.560 and false teeth. At one point, they were allegedly taught 0:13:49.720 --> 0:13:53.640 how to wrap dead patients using a deceased woman as 0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:58.560 a prop. They were also concerned that, given the lax procedures, 0:13:58.840 --> 0:14:02.600 their own DNA might contaminate the bodies of crime victims. 0:14:03.520 --> 0:14:07.640 This was all deeply distressing to them and undignified for 0:14:07.760 --> 0:14:10.640 the deceased, and none of this had been part of 0:14:10.720 --> 0:14:14.800 John's previous porter job at the hospital in Wrexham. So 0:14:15.400 --> 0:14:19.440 the two look into the hospital's policy on mortuary practice. 0:14:19.880 --> 0:14:23.280 We looked on the intranet's site for any policy or 0:14:23.560 --> 0:14:27.920 standard operating procedures that were available. More policy really wasn't 0:14:27.920 --> 0:14:28.920 it On the internet, it. 0:14:28.960 --> 0:14:33.000 Would see sure if it was, if it was our job, 0:14:33.360 --> 0:14:34.920 then we can't gripe about it. 0:14:34.960 --> 0:14:37.720 But there was complete absence of it. There was nothing there. 0:14:38.440 --> 0:14:41.120 So rings along bells straight away, now, doesn't it because 0:14:41.120 --> 0:14:43.560 there's no risk assessment been done. If there's no policy 0:14:43.560 --> 0:14:46.920 written up, there's no guidance, there's just nothing. 0:14:48.240 --> 0:14:51.720 The response from the wider porter staff was varied when 0:14:51.720 --> 0:14:55.000 it came to attending bodies that came in from the community. 0:14:55.640 --> 0:14:57.240 Some just wouldn't do it, but there they said, I'm 0:14:57.280 --> 0:15:00.200 not doing it, So it's goodwill then, isn't it. Some 0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:03.680 will do it, some are reluctant, some don't mind. Some 0:15:03.720 --> 0:15:05.880 would say I'll do it, but on my last shift 0:15:06.000 --> 0:15:09.360 at midnight, I am not doing anymore because you don't 0:15:09.400 --> 0:15:10.280 want to carry them memory. 0:15:11.680 --> 0:15:15.160 In January twenty twenty four, John and Tom spoke to 0:15:15.200 --> 0:15:19.280 the mortuary manager, encouraged by things they'd been told in training. 0:15:20.000 --> 0:15:22.520 You did have training maybe once a year, and they'd say, 0:15:22.960 --> 0:15:25.240 if you've got anything, please come and see us. We've 0:15:25.280 --> 0:15:27.960 got a good ethos working ethos with you people. We 0:15:28.040 --> 0:15:30.400 appreciate you, so I thought it'd be easy. 0:15:31.480 --> 0:15:33.120 They raise their concerns. 0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:36.080 You go, you say I used to work in Wrexam. 0:15:36.320 --> 0:15:38.800 This is how we do it. It's much better, it's safer. 0:15:39.280 --> 0:15:41.880 You don't do community deaths in wrexum do what allow 0:15:41.920 --> 0:15:44.400 you in there? So they are undertakers and the columners 0:15:44.800 --> 0:15:47.160 they have access and they do everything themselves. You just 0:15:47.200 --> 0:15:50.040 get a forum, so you can imagine getting a form 0:15:50.080 --> 0:15:54.280 compared to this that I'm o' seeing. This is it's 0:15:54.360 --> 0:15:58.080 not right. It's not right. So I explain and it's immediate, 0:15:58.160 --> 0:16:00.720 isn't it. You can just sense with people we don't 0:16:00.760 --> 0:16:05.120 do that here. I'm like, okay, you don't do that, 0:16:05.520 --> 0:16:08.440 but what about everybody's in the body big even on 0:16:08.480 --> 0:16:11.720 the wards that way, Well, we don't do that here. 0:16:11.960 --> 0:16:12.640 This is Chester. 0:16:12.840 --> 0:16:15.800 This is Chester. Mate is shut us down then within. 0:16:15.680 --> 0:16:20.280 Ten minutes, And this is probably a good moment to 0:16:20.360 --> 0:16:24.160 remember that word Martin Pittman used at the beginning of 0:16:24.200 --> 0:16:28.640 the episode, the word that whistleblowers use to describe their 0:16:28.760 --> 0:16:35.000 view of how they are treated. Darvo, deny, attack, reverse 0:16:35.200 --> 0:16:39.000 victim and offender. With their first attempt to bring up 0:16:39.040 --> 0:16:42.600 the issue, they were told it was a non issue, 0:16:43.280 --> 0:16:47.200 essentially deny, So the two porters decide to let it 0:16:47.280 --> 0:16:52.400 go until John has to deal with a particularly disturbing image. 0:16:53.840 --> 0:16:56.880 I had one more incident where it just sent me 0:16:56.880 --> 0:16:59.240 over the edge, which was as you do open the fridge, 0:17:00.000 --> 0:17:01.000 everyone should be covered. 0:17:02.480 --> 0:17:08.640 It was just a head, a severed head, just sitting there. 0:17:09.560 --> 0:17:12.119 And then I said, that is it. I'm going to 0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:12.760 escalate it. 0:17:33.000 --> 0:17:37.440 After one too many unpleasant experiences in the mortuary, John 0:17:37.520 --> 0:17:40.320 and Tom escalate the issue. 0:17:40.560 --> 0:17:42.680 The only avenue you've got his freedom to speak Up. 0:17:43.840 --> 0:17:47.080 Freedom to Speak Up is an NHS initiative that allows 0:17:47.119 --> 0:17:51.680 anyone working within the NHS to raise issues of patient safety, 0:17:52.160 --> 0:17:57.480 poor practices, or bullying without fear of reprisal. An employee 0:17:57.560 --> 0:18:00.520 raises the issue with the Freedom to Speak Up guardian 0:18:01.040 --> 0:18:05.040 or their line manager. This is then reported directly to 0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:10.040 the board and can be open, anonymous or confidential as requested. 0:18:12.359 --> 0:18:17.000 You go see them, tell them, they're horrified. They seem genuine. 0:18:17.800 --> 0:18:21.040 You tell them that we need to be anonymous because 0:18:21.320 --> 0:18:24.159 you know our works. No one had any faith and 0:18:24.240 --> 0:18:26.760 it did they to them really for freedom to speak up. 0:18:27.400 --> 0:18:31.440 When you brought up these problems that the bodies were 0:18:31.480 --> 0:18:34.920 just left uncovered, that you know, there was no protocol 0:18:34.960 --> 0:18:39.840 to protect you from potential infection. All of that. I 0:18:39.720 --> 0:18:42.320 imagine you brought up the emotional toll that that was 0:18:42.359 --> 0:18:44.679 having on you, But did you also bring up just 0:18:45.280 --> 0:18:49.960 the lack of dignity to the patient? Can you describe 0:18:49.960 --> 0:18:51.240 how that conversation went? 0:18:52.160 --> 0:18:54.040 That was one of our primary it was? 0:18:54.760 --> 0:18:57.320 It was, yeah, it was a massive concern for me. 0:18:57.920 --> 0:18:59.680 I just didn't think it was nice and I wouldn't 0:18:59.760 --> 0:19:02.320 want it ending up saying I don't really want to 0:19:02.320 --> 0:19:05.159 die here. As you go and you meet Freedom to 0:19:05.160 --> 0:19:09.080 Speak Up, they are completely unaware of these things going on. 0:19:09.520 --> 0:19:12.040 So after an hour you think they're actually really going 0:19:12.080 --> 0:19:16.320 to do something about this, that the serious people are genuine, 0:19:16.359 --> 0:19:18.919 aren't that You can tell that this lady's has no 0:19:19.040 --> 0:19:22.040 idea this is going on, and she's going, can I 0:19:22.080 --> 0:19:24.080 have your permission? I need to go and see the 0:19:24.240 --> 0:19:28.440 CEO immediately about this, and she did, Are you coping? 0:19:28.520 --> 0:19:31.359 And low? Does others feel? As everyone feel the same. 0:19:32.040 --> 0:19:35.120 When Freedom to Speak Up reported it to the chief 0:19:35.160 --> 0:19:38.120 operating Now for sir, she said she'd go on an 0:19:38.119 --> 0:19:41.840 investigative journey to see and try and establish what was 0:19:41.840 --> 0:19:44.800 wrong and try and get us some answers. But she 0:19:45.040 --> 0:19:50.000 mirrored almost perfectly, and the questions that we'd asked rather 0:19:50.080 --> 0:19:52.000 than say, oh, can I just come down and have 0:19:52.040 --> 0:19:54.119 a look around? Would you be all right with that? 0:19:54.200 --> 0:19:56.280 And would have said yes, and she could have done 0:19:56.320 --> 0:20:00.800 it sort of covidly. The moltuary technician in question didn't 0:20:00.800 --> 0:20:04.199 take much chapter two to realize that those questions were 0:20:04.200 --> 0:20:06.000 the same ones that would ask find me and John 0:20:06.080 --> 0:20:08.240 when we went in two weeks earlier. 0:20:09.160 --> 0:20:14.080 At this point, the pair's anonymity is blown, the anonymity 0:20:14.160 --> 0:20:18.560 that the freedom to speak up initiative promises. All sides 0:20:18.680 --> 0:20:22.120 now know what the complaint is and who made it, 0:20:22.680 --> 0:20:26.720 and life becomes way more difficult for the two porters 0:20:27.040 --> 0:20:30.800 as they're questioned by management about whether they'd gone over 0:20:30.840 --> 0:20:34.439 their heads to the board. Here we are at Darvo 0:20:34.640 --> 0:20:38.080 letter a attack or accues. 0:20:38.280 --> 0:20:41.920 So he took me access away. Tom's didn't get taken away, 0:20:41.920 --> 0:20:44.280 but it was going to be next, so my access 0:20:44.320 --> 0:20:45.040 gets removed. 0:20:46.280 --> 0:20:49.760 John finds that his access to the mortuary is revoked. 0:20:50.520 --> 0:20:52.760 Though the level of work that the pair were expected 0:20:52.800 --> 0:20:56.080 to do was above their pay grade as porters, they 0:20:56.119 --> 0:21:00.200 still had some reasonable responsibilities to fulfill, such as bring 0:21:00.200 --> 0:21:03.960 bodies from other hospital wards to the mortuary, but John, 0:21:04.080 --> 0:21:07.040 without his access could not fulfill those duties. 0:21:07.800 --> 0:21:11.760 I went to see my MP about this and she 0:21:12.080 --> 0:21:16.040 warned me. She actually said this is very, very concerning 0:21:16.440 --> 0:21:19.679 and I said, yeah, of course. She said are you 0:21:19.720 --> 0:21:22.920 sure you want to do this? And I said explain. 0:21:23.160 --> 0:21:27.320 She said, see, come for you. You will be targeted. 0:21:28.000 --> 0:21:30.320 Are you in a union? I suggest you join one? 0:21:30.359 --> 0:21:32.879 If you're not, I wouldn't shot, but I knew it, 0:21:32.880 --> 0:21:34.639 but I was shot. Me MP with selling me to 0:21:34.760 --> 0:21:35.280 watch out. 0:21:36.560 --> 0:21:40.520 John shows me the subject access request. This is a 0:21:40.600 --> 0:21:44.960 UK system that allows employees to access all correspondents about 0:21:45.000 --> 0:21:50.960 themselves written by other staff members, emails, performance reviews, instant messages. 0:21:51.840 --> 0:21:55.600 John requested access to all that back in June twenty 0:21:55.640 --> 0:21:59.280 twenty four. A year later, the documents arrive. 0:22:00.240 --> 0:22:02.679 So this is where the circle the wagons were. They 0:22:02.720 --> 0:22:05.720 suppressed it and now when you get it, of course 0:22:05.760 --> 0:22:10.800 it's horrifying. So this is the interview notes that the 0:22:10.880 --> 0:22:14.200 mortuary manager. So they've got to justify why's done it? 0:22:15.720 --> 0:22:20.199 We don't know the infection status. Some have suffered traumatic deaths. 0:22:20.320 --> 0:22:23.760 I think there were five justifications put into our sop. 0:22:24.400 --> 0:22:26.399 That is only community deaths. 0:22:27.359 --> 0:22:30.720 So that's where the admittance that there's no infection the 0:22:30.760 --> 0:22:33.119 PP and it wasn't an adequate by the way which 0:22:33.320 --> 0:22:35.720 they did change it, which was one thing, but it 0:22:35.800 --> 0:22:39.800 shows the PPE wasn't right and there's no infection, So 0:22:39.840 --> 0:22:40.920 that refers to that. 0:22:42.000 --> 0:22:45.280 I took John off. The mortuary authorized the list on 0:22:45.480 --> 0:22:46.240 Net two. 0:22:46.320 --> 0:22:48.359 So that's you swipe to get in. 0:22:48.800 --> 0:22:51.800 I am aware there is an escalation process to follow. 0:22:52.880 --> 0:22:55.679 To me, when someone says something like that, to me, 0:22:56.200 --> 0:22:58.680 it looks like they have something to hide and not 0:22:58.800 --> 0:23:02.640 wanting to be discovered. Yes, I acted in haste, then 0:23:02.960 --> 0:23:06.200 with a logical thought perspective, I was acting out of 0:23:06.320 --> 0:23:09.840 duty of candor for the patients. That comment made me 0:23:09.880 --> 0:23:11.600 feel he had something to hide. 0:23:12.840 --> 0:23:16.639 So that is the reason that my accessor was moved. 0:23:16.640 --> 0:23:19.760 That I had something to hide. I didn't want to 0:23:19.760 --> 0:23:23.120 be discovered in a mortuary setting. So he then goes 0:23:23.160 --> 0:23:24.560 on to say, when we get this, do. 0:23:24.640 --> 0:23:27.359 I mean was something to hide in a mortuary setting? 0:23:27.720 --> 0:23:31.840 Well, tops see twenty four thousand dollars question. 0:23:33.160 --> 0:23:35.840 John shows me the interview from the head of nursing 0:23:36.080 --> 0:23:39.280 who believed that the mortuary manager was acting out of 0:23:39.320 --> 0:23:43.360 concern for deceased patients when he revoked your mortuary access 0:23:43.800 --> 0:23:48.080 rather than because you raised any concerns. So she's denying. 0:23:47.640 --> 0:23:50.560 That, but she asked that that the reason was he 0:23:50.600 --> 0:23:53.400 did it out of concern for deceased patients. 0:23:53.400 --> 0:23:56.399 So as if you were doing something to deceased patients. Yea. 0:23:57.400 --> 0:24:00.920 So here we arrive very firmly at the final stage 0:24:01.040 --> 0:24:05.600 of DARVO, the RVO reverse victim and offender. 0:24:06.359 --> 0:24:09.440 So there's three phrases there that that's the reason my 0:24:09.520 --> 0:24:12.359 access was taken away was because I had something to 0:24:12.480 --> 0:24:15.240 hide and I didn't want to be discovered. And he 0:24:15.320 --> 0:24:17.879 did it a concern for deceased patients. 0:24:18.880 --> 0:24:22.640 We interpreted that would pose a risk to disease. 0:24:22.400 --> 0:24:27.800 Pictures because you brought up concerns about the conditions of 0:24:27.880 --> 0:24:33.200 deceased patients. Another manager went even further in their statement 0:24:33.400 --> 0:24:35.960