WEBVTT - Powell Says ‘Time Has Come’ for Fed to Cut Interest Rates 0:00:02.920 --> 0:00:10.719 Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. This is Bloomberg Business 0:00:10.720 --> 0:00:13.960 Wait inside from the reporters and editors who bring you 0:00:14.000 --> 0:00:18.200 America's most trusted business magazine, plus gloom Wa Business finance 0:00:18.239 --> 0:00:22.280 and tech news. The Bloomberg Business Week Podcast with Carol 0:00:22.360 --> 0:00:26.160 Messer and Tim Stenebeck from Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:28.640 --> 0:00:30.000 All the times. 0:00:32.040 --> 0:00:38.560 They're as to realize loving the music here, writes sim 0:00:38.600 --> 0:00:41.479 and so, of course, uh, we've been talking about this 0:00:41.680 --> 0:00:45.000 all afternoon, as you all know, Fed Shair Jpal finally 0:00:45.080 --> 0:00:48.360 laying out what Wall Street has been expecting for a 0:00:48.400 --> 0:00:50.880 while here to cut interest rates that are coming soon 0:00:51.280 --> 0:00:54.080 to help support the economy. That marks and about face 0:00:54.120 --> 0:00:56.640 after the Fed, of course, began hiking rates back in 0:00:56.720 --> 0:01:00.280 March of twenty twenty two, after inflation, of course, viral 0:01:00.400 --> 0:01:02.960 to its worst levels in a generation. The economy and 0:01:03.000 --> 0:01:05.800 the US stock market, though, have both come a long 0:01:05.840 --> 0:01:08.480 way since then. So let's dive into the economic as 0:01:08.520 --> 0:01:12.440 well as the investor outlook. Following Pal's speech at Jackson 0:01:12.480 --> 0:01:14.560 Hole this morning, who better than to bring in then 0:01:14.560 --> 0:01:18.480 Bloomberg z oone Mike McKee, International Economics and Policy correspondent 0:01:18.480 --> 0:01:20.880 and Bloomberg News and he's actually at the Jackson Hole 0:01:20.920 --> 0:01:24.200 Economic Policy Symporium here. And then, of course Tracy Bell, 0:01:24.319 --> 0:01:27.800 chief investment officer at First Horizon Advisors, joining us on 0:01:27.920 --> 0:01:31.120 zoom from Birmingham, Alabama. Mike, I'll start off with you 0:01:31.160 --> 0:01:33.600 because you just in the last hour had that great 0:01:33.600 --> 0:01:36.800 interview with Austin Goolsby once again, and I thought it 0:01:36.840 --> 0:01:39.440 was really interesting when he laid out when people were 0:01:39.440 --> 0:01:42.479 debating about the twenty five basis points versus fifty basis 0:01:42.480 --> 0:01:45.520 points in September, but he said expect multiple cuts for 0:01:45.560 --> 0:01:47.480 this year and next. So what was kind of your 0:01:47.480 --> 0:01:49.920 big takeaways from your conversation with him? 0:01:52.040 --> 0:01:54.720 Well, we've turned to corner now, we're now out of 0:01:54.760 --> 0:01:57.440 the higher for longer regime and we are in the 0:01:57.520 --> 0:01:58.560 rate cutting cycle. 0:01:58.920 --> 0:02:00.800 The question will be how far do they cut. 0:02:00.840 --> 0:02:02.840 They don't have an answer for that because they don't 0:02:02.880 --> 0:02:05.120 exactly know what the neutral rate is going to be. 0:02:05.200 --> 0:02:08.400 The economy growing above potential in recent years, does it 0:02:08.480 --> 0:02:11.120 stay that way or does it fall back? Can they 0:02:11.160 --> 0:02:14.960 lower interest rates below or at least to where they 0:02:14.960 --> 0:02:18.000 were even before the Great Financial Crisis, what they. 0:02:17.960 --> 0:02:19.200 Might have considered normal. 0:02:19.960 --> 0:02:22.040 And they don't know whether they're going to cut twenty 0:02:22.040 --> 0:02:24.760 five or fifty basis points. Their preference is twenty five, 0:02:25.240 --> 0:02:28.079 but if we got some really bad economic data, they 0:02:28.200 --> 0:02:32.320 might do fifty. That's what Austin Gouldsby said as well, 0:02:32.360 --> 0:02:35.040 without taking a position on what they'll do in September. 0:02:35.240 --> 0:02:37.040 All right, well, maybe we can get Tracy Bell to 0:02:37.040 --> 0:02:40.560 take a position. She's chief investment officer at First Horizon Advisors. Tracy, 0:02:40.600 --> 0:02:42.600 come on in here and tell us how you're viewing 0:02:42.639 --> 0:02:44.440 the rate path at least through the end of the year. 0:02:44.480 --> 0:02:46.639 Given what we heard from Jay Powell and the various 0:02:46.639 --> 0:02:49.239 bad speakers we've heard from live from Jackson Hall. 0:02:50.680 --> 0:02:53.920 Yeah, I love your intro music there time. That's what 0:02:54.000 --> 0:02:55.959 is chirm Powell said today is. 0:02:55.760 --> 0:02:57.600 There's a method to the madness here. 0:02:58.280 --> 0:03:01.919 Exactly on a Friday afternoon. So, yeah, the time has come, 0:03:02.639 --> 0:03:05.120 and you know, I think the data support that, and 0:03:05.200 --> 0:03:08.120 what Mike is saying about a slow and deliberate pace 0:03:08.320 --> 0:03:12.000 is probably what investors should expect here. Investors have been 0:03:12.000 --> 0:03:14.920 trying to price in FED rate cuts since the beginning 0:03:14.919 --> 0:03:17.360 of the year, and we've really just now gotten to 0:03:17.360 --> 0:03:20.120 the point where the FED is comfortable doing that. Chairman 0:03:20.200 --> 0:03:24.800 Powell talked about gaining confidence in the data, continuing to 0:03:24.880 --> 0:03:28.200 move towards the fed's two percent inflation target, but at 0:03:28.200 --> 0:03:31.720 the same time acknowledging that the employment market has definitely 0:03:31.840 --> 0:03:34.480 cooled and we see that in the data. So to 0:03:34.520 --> 0:03:36.840 the extent that the data continues to support that, we 0:03:36.840 --> 0:03:38.400 should expect rate cuts to follow. 0:03:39.000 --> 0:03:40.800 So I want to follow up with you, Tracy on that, 0:03:40.840 --> 0:03:43.600 because how are you advising clients to position at this 0:03:43.680 --> 0:03:47.120 inflection point with the FED and a change in monetary policy. 0:03:47.160 --> 0:03:48.480 What are you telling them to buy? What are you 0:03:48.480 --> 0:03:50.360 telling them to sell? 0:03:50.520 --> 0:03:52.320 Well, one of the things that we talk about a 0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:57.760 lot with our individual clients is expectations around transitions. So 0:03:58.000 --> 0:04:01.360 when the FED was raising interest rates to begin this 0:04:01.480 --> 0:04:04.880 part of this cycle, we talked about transitions being difficult 0:04:05.360 --> 0:04:09.480 and understanding that transitions can lead to heightened volatility. And 0:04:09.480 --> 0:04:11.800 we saw that not that long ago, a couple of 0:04:11.800 --> 0:04:14.560 weeks ago, with the Japanese market selling off in the 0:04:14.640 --> 0:04:17.520 US market following, only for things to turn around and 0:04:17.560 --> 0:04:20.760 bounce right back. So we're in that same type transition 0:04:20.960 --> 0:04:23.719 environment where the data is beginning to transition to a 0:04:23.839 --> 0:04:26.560 lower pace with the economic growth and a little bit 0:04:26.600 --> 0:04:29.640 weaker on the employment market and inflation is coming down 0:04:29.680 --> 0:04:32.400 where it needs to be, and that implies that we're 0:04:32.440 --> 0:04:36.400 in another transitory environment. Skews the use of the word transitory, 0:04:36.839 --> 0:04:39.560 but transitory where we're shifting down a little bit in 0:04:39.640 --> 0:04:42.359 the growth rate, and that means that investors may have 0:04:42.480 --> 0:04:45.880 to endure a little more volatility as data continues to 0:04:45.920 --> 0:04:48.320 come out, and it's going to be lumpy. Things don't 0:04:48.320 --> 0:04:51.400 move in a straight line, and we're suggesting that investors 0:04:51.400 --> 0:04:54.440 be prepared for that. It's not time to change what 0:04:54.480 --> 0:04:58.799 you're doing. Your investment should be mirroring what your longer 0:04:58.880 --> 0:05:01.719 term financial goals are are for the average individual investor, 0:05:02.080 --> 0:05:05.400 and just understand that in the transitory environment, you may 0:05:05.480 --> 0:05:06.720 experience some volatility. 0:05:07.320 --> 0:05:09.640 Mike, come on in here because I want to talk 0:05:09.640 --> 0:05:12.359 a little bit about this line that I mentioned in 0:05:12.400 --> 0:05:16.560 our interview with Iron Stewart a little earlier, from Powell's 0:05:17.040 --> 0:05:19.200 roughly sixteen minute speech a little earlier today. 0:05:19.240 --> 0:05:19.719 Here's what he. 0:05:19.720 --> 0:05:23.440 Said, quote, the upside risks to inflation have diminished and 0:05:23.520 --> 0:05:27.160 the downside risks to employment have increased. In other words, 0:05:27.160 --> 0:05:31.000 they're more concerned with the risk to arise in unemployment 0:05:31.000 --> 0:05:33.960 than they are to arise in inflation, at least, that's 0:05:34.000 --> 0:05:37.120 my takeaway. How did you view that those two lines? 0:05:39.000 --> 0:05:41.640 Well, you got it right, Tim. The FED has been 0:05:41.839 --> 0:05:45.280 worried about inflation. It was their number one priority for 0:05:45.360 --> 0:05:48.120 two three years now, but the balance of risks, as 0:05:48.160 --> 0:05:51.200 they put it, has now tilted towards unemployment rising too much. 0:05:51.880 --> 0:05:54.719 The FED chair said that they don't think at this 0:05:54.880 --> 0:05:57.800 point that the labor market is going to produce wage 0:05:57.839 --> 0:06:01.120 inflation that would worry them, but they are concerned that 0:06:01.240 --> 0:06:03.159 unemployment could rise too much. 0:06:03.560 --> 0:06:05.920 Now. The question is unemployment. 0:06:05.320 --> 0:06:07.679 Having risen to four point three percent, is that because 0:06:07.920 --> 0:06:09.320 companies are laying off workers. 0:06:09.360 --> 0:06:10.839 It doesn't appear to be that way. 0:06:10.920 --> 0:06:13.880 It appears to be a much larger labor force, more 0:06:13.880 --> 0:06:16.880 people out looking for jobs. And if that's the case, 0:06:17.160 --> 0:06:18.680 the FED isn't going to be worried, but they'll be 0:06:18.760 --> 0:06:21.200 watching the data closely to make sure that we're not 0:06:21.240 --> 0:06:24.560 seeing widespread layoffs, which would be a sign of an 0:06:24.600 --> 0:06:25.599 impending recession. 0:06:25.920 --> 0:06:27.880 Is that, Mike, the piece of data that they're most 0:06:27.880 --> 0:06:29.000 concerned about now. 0:06:29.160 --> 0:06:33.400 Moving forward, it does appear that way. 0:06:33.480 --> 0:06:36.599 They anticipate that they're going to see inflation continue to 0:06:36.600 --> 0:06:39.080 come down towards two percent it might be bumping, could 0:06:39.120 --> 0:06:41.200 be goes up a tenth in a month or something 0:06:41.240 --> 0:06:43.159 like that. But they don't seem to think there's a 0:06:43.200 --> 0:06:46.160 possibility of a breakout at this time. But they are 0:06:46.200 --> 0:06:49.360 worried about a breakout of unemployment, and Pole did say 0:06:49.440 --> 0:06:52.159 today that they'll do whatever it takes to keep that 0:06:52.200 --> 0:06:52.839 from happening. 0:06:53.160 --> 0:06:55.680 Hey, Mike, you also, I'm sure heard about this since 0:06:55.680 --> 0:06:58.000 you're out there, that Rafael Bostic as well as Patrick 0:06:58.040 --> 0:07:00.800 Harker were both signaling that they see the longer term 0:07:00.839 --> 0:07:03.719 neutral rate around three percent, which was pretty specific for 0:07:03.760 --> 0:07:05.280 both of them to come out and say that, So, 0:07:05.279 --> 0:07:07.520 does that mean we should expect over two hundred bases 0:07:07.560 --> 0:07:09.760 points worth of cuts over the next potential a year 0:07:09.880 --> 0:07:10.040 or so. 0:07:12.560 --> 0:07:15.240 Well, a single data point doesn't make a trend, nor 0:07:15.280 --> 0:07:17.600 do two, but if we get some more we might 0:07:17.680 --> 0:07:21.160 think of that. I think probably the best answer is 0:07:21.160 --> 0:07:24.680 the one Austin Gouldsby gave me, which was we're going 0:07:24.760 --> 0:07:26.680 to have to wait and see, because we're going to 0:07:26.720 --> 0:07:30.280 have to wait and see exactly what the economy does. 0:07:30.600 --> 0:07:33.920 If the economy starts to slow, then you would see 0:07:34.120 --> 0:07:37.120 more rate cuts. They might be too tight, so they 0:07:37.120 --> 0:07:39.000 will continue going down, but they don't know where that 0:07:39.040 --> 0:07:44.720 neutral rate is. It was unusual that Bostic and Harker 0:07:44.800 --> 0:07:49.760 told me three percent, but most other officials won't put 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:53.000 a number on it. But it's a reasonable assumption that 0:07:53.160 --> 0:07:55.240 they could get down that low. What they won't do 0:07:55.640 --> 0:07:57.640 is go back to zero unless there's a crisis. 0:07:57.800 --> 0:08:00.000 Hey, Tracy, come back in here, because what is Pizzi 0:08:00.080 --> 0:08:02.400 is sitting telling us in the stock market as far 0:08:02.400 --> 0:08:03.720 as when you're looking at the S and P five 0:08:03.800 --> 0:08:06.800 hundred just a whisker away actually from its all time high. 0:08:06.800 --> 0:08:09.560 But when you're looking at say derivatives markets, what does 0:08:09.560 --> 0:08:11.840 that show us as far as what investors are betting 0:08:11.840 --> 0:08:13.040 on the next couple of months or so? 0:08:15.240 --> 0:08:17.600 You know, I think when you look at the performance 0:08:17.640 --> 0:08:19.640 of the S and P, there's a couple of things 0:08:20.040 --> 0:08:24.520 to notice, and you see this positioning more broadly. The 0:08:24.560 --> 0:08:28.000 market has been led this year up until recently by 0:08:28.080 --> 0:08:31.920 those big megacap concentrated names within the index, but really 0:08:31.960 --> 0:08:34.480 over the past months to six weeks or so, that's 0:08:34.600 --> 0:08:38.160 changed and you see a much more broad based lift 0:08:38.200 --> 0:08:41.120 in the index coming from names outside of just those 0:08:41.160 --> 0:08:45.480 few names. You also see participation in other market caps, 0:08:46.080 --> 0:08:48.480 and outside the US, so it's a much more broad 0:08:48.520 --> 0:08:52.640 based participation in financial market assets. Moving to the upside 0:08:53.000 --> 0:08:56.760 across the board, the expectation for next year is for 0:08:56.880 --> 0:08:59.960 much broader earnings growth within the S and P sector, 0:09:00.280 --> 0:09:03.400 so not concentrated again in just those few names, but 0:09:03.559 --> 0:09:07.080 spread out more broadly across market caps and sectors. That's 0:09:07.200 --> 0:09:10.880 great for investors that have diversified portfolios, and that's what 0:09:10.920 --> 0:09:13.320 we like to see, so that people aren't chasing just 0:09:13.400 --> 0:09:14.800 a few individual. 0:09:14.320 --> 0:09:16.840 Names, Terracy, What about outside the S and P five 0:09:16.960 --> 0:09:20.520 hundred geographically in terms of sectors, where are you looking 0:09:20.559 --> 0:09:21.400 for growth? 0:09:24.120 --> 0:09:28.880 You know, it's looking like international looks a little better 0:09:29.000 --> 0:09:32.080 this year. It's looking like that broad based growth is 0:09:32.120 --> 0:09:35.760 going to show up really more globally and things not 0:09:35.880 --> 0:09:37.880 be as concentrated in the United States. 0:09:39.440 --> 0:09:41.760 Mike, I want to bring you back in just quickly 0:09:41.800 --> 0:09:44.320 here because we still have a few data points on 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:46.520 the calendar next week. As you know, the consumer spending 0:09:46.559 --> 0:09:49.080 obviously includes the Fed's preferred gauge when it comes to 0:09:49.080 --> 0:09:51.880 inflation with the PC indicator. But what are you most 0:09:51.920 --> 0:09:53.880 focused on in the short term in the weeks ahead, 0:09:53.960 --> 0:09:55.840 and obviously the jobs reporter is at tever six. 0:09:57.480 --> 0:09:59.520 Yeah, the Jobs Report is going to be the chief 0:09:59.600 --> 0:10:02.800 indicat for the FED and contribute the most to the 0:10:02.840 --> 0:10:05.840 debate over twenty five or fifty basis points. 0:10:06.200 --> 0:10:07.520 But we'll also be watching. 0:10:07.360 --> 0:10:11.120 CPI on September twelfth, and we'll be watching the PCEE 0:10:11.280 --> 0:10:14.520 numbers that you mentioned, because that's the official target. If 0:10:14.520 --> 0:10:16.800 they all come in as anticipated, I think you see 0:10:17.000 --> 0:10:21.199 twenty five basis points on the eighteenth, and if they don't, 0:10:22.360 --> 0:10:25.199 it would take a lot to change their view and 0:10:25.320 --> 0:10:28.240 not cut. You'd have to have a big increase in 0:10:28.360 --> 0:10:31.960 jobs and a drop in unemployment. But if we see weakness, 0:10:32.040 --> 0:10:34.760 then that'll put some weight on the fifty side. 0:10:35.440 --> 0:10:39.480 Michael McKee, international economics and policy correspondent for Bloomberg News. 0:10:39.520 --> 0:10:42.679 He's live from the Jackson Hole Economic Symposium and of 0:10:42.679 --> 0:10:45.400 course Jackson Hole. Also a big thank you to Tracy 0:10:45.480 --> 0:10:50.600 belchief investment officer at First Riseing Advisors. Joining us from Birha, Birmingham, Alabama. 0:10:51.320 --> 0:10:54.880 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week Podcast. Catch us 0:10:54.880 --> 0:10:58.120 live weekday afternoons from two to five pm Eastern Listen 0:10:58.160 --> 0:10:58.920 on Apple. 0:10:58.640 --> 0:11:00.320 Car Play and then brought out with. 0:11:00.320 --> 0:11:04.480 A Bloomberg Business act or watch us live on YouTube. 0:11:04.679 --> 0:11:07.600 Well, if you watch or attended the Democratic National Convention 0:11:07.640 --> 0:11:11.400 in Chicago this week, here's what you saw. Vintage Bernie Sanders, 0:11:11.800 --> 0:11:14.520 a street against big pharma, big tech, big everything, and 0:11:14.559 --> 0:11:18.640 of course billionaires. Minutes later, Illinois Governor J. B. Pritzker, 0:11:18.679 --> 0:11:21.000 who is heir to a vast hotel fortune, stood at 0:11:21.040 --> 0:11:23.439 the same spot to brag that he's an actual billionaire 0:11:23.679 --> 0:11:27.560 who's wealthier than Donald Trump. It's a moment of rapid 0:11:27.559 --> 0:11:30.240 transition from President Joe Biden to Harris. There's a party 0:11:30.360 --> 0:11:33.440 eager to woo a broad coalition. They're selling hope and joy, 0:11:33.480 --> 0:11:36.439 wrapped in memes and served with a side of Beyonce's Freedom. 0:11:36.880 --> 0:11:40.240 What it has avoided, though, is providing economic policy specifics 0:11:40.600 --> 0:11:44.640 that could pit one faction against another. These words from 0:11:44.640 --> 0:11:46.319 the team behind one of the most read stories on 0:11:46.320 --> 0:11:49.360 the Bloomberg terminal today. It's a dispatch from Chicago from 0:11:49.400 --> 0:11:53.480 the Democratic National Convention. It focuses on how corporate leaders 0:11:53.520 --> 0:11:57.920 are contending with a policy light Harris campaign. Amanda Gordon 0:11:58.000 --> 0:11:59.720 is part of that team. She's Wealth Team reporter for 0:11:59.720 --> 0:12:02.960 Blue Burg News and she joins us from Chicago. Amanda 0:12:03.000 --> 0:12:05.079 good to have you with us this afternoon. I hope 0:12:05.120 --> 0:12:07.559 you've gotten a little bit of rest following a whirlwind 0:12:07.559 --> 0:12:10.199 four days in Chicago. One thing that I found really 0:12:10.240 --> 0:12:13.360 fascinating about the piece that you wrote with your team 0:12:13.840 --> 0:12:16.720 is kind of what happens behind the scenes when it 0:12:16.760 --> 0:12:20.720 comes to the corporate side. The United Airlines, the McDonald's, 0:12:20.760 --> 0:12:23.920 the Blackstones, the executives from some of these companies that 0:12:24.000 --> 0:12:26.840 find themselves in Chicago for an event such as this 0:12:26.960 --> 0:12:28.400 take us behind the scenes a little bit. 0:12:30.679 --> 0:12:33.080 Well, in some ways you could say it's networking one 0:12:33.160 --> 0:12:38.560 oh one. This is relationship building and relationship solidifying. So 0:12:38.880 --> 0:12:42.240 some of the business people from Wall Street who made 0:12:42.240 --> 0:12:46.960 time to come to Chicago have been coming to conventions 0:12:47.000 --> 0:12:50.320 for years and operating in the space, and they have 0:12:50.400 --> 0:12:55.560 relationships with lawmakers. Some of them worked with Kamala Harris 0:12:55.600 --> 0:13:01.199 on her presidential run in twenty nineteen even earlier. So 0:13:01.559 --> 0:13:03.760 what I would say for the business people who are 0:13:03.800 --> 0:13:07.719 here and in the room that night last night when 0:13:07.720 --> 0:13:11.360 she gave the speech, there's a comfort level with her, 0:13:12.559 --> 0:13:16.880 and I would say, you know, they're feeling confident that 0:13:16.920 --> 0:13:19.840 they're going to get to these issues. But it is 0:13:19.960 --> 0:13:23.320 true we are not going to hear these issues in 0:13:23.400 --> 0:13:27.480 prime time. I would just look at the optics of 0:13:27.520 --> 0:13:32.600 her speech. Thursday night was not a sort of joyful 0:13:32.920 --> 0:13:37.920 Oprah kind of night. She talked about Trump being unseerious 0:13:38.480 --> 0:13:44.760 and in her power suit up there on listing out 0:13:44.800 --> 0:13:50.040 topics from Ukraine to childcare. She really did run the gamut. 0:13:50.080 --> 0:13:54.080 But what we are hearing is that she's focusing on issues. 0:13:54.120 --> 0:13:58.040 She's naming issues that will be important to the most 0:13:58.160 --> 0:14:02.959 number of people who might influence this, uh, this election 0:14:03.559 --> 0:14:07.920 on November fifth, and so we are late on some 0:14:07.960 --> 0:14:11.720 of the issues that corporate leaders and Wall Street you know, 0:14:11.840 --> 0:14:15.560 really care about, and that's up to us to pin 0:14:15.640 --> 0:14:19.480 her down H in the coming days and weeks. 0:14:20.240 --> 0:14:23.320 So when you were talking to people there, what were 0:14:23.400 --> 0:14:26.000 the top issues Because there's a lot of ideas. Of course, 0:14:26.040 --> 0:14:28.280 people are going to talk about tax policy and other 0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:30.360 things like that, but what were the kind of the 0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:32.880 ones things that people really were most focused on? 0:14:32.920 --> 0:14:42.560 Here, H, Crypto AI really in America competitive, making sure 0:14:42.680 --> 0:14:46.960 that America can you know, is engaged in investing in 0:14:47.040 --> 0:14:47.960 other countries. 0:14:48.840 --> 0:14:49.280 Uh. 0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:53.320 It's it's you know, not necessarily that new, but it 0:14:53.400 --> 0:14:57.120 is definitely counter to some of the things that we've 0:14:57.240 --> 0:15:02.280 you know that that the Trump administration, the Trump platform 0:15:02.680 --> 0:15:09.600 rather has has been positioning themselves. I think that the 0:15:09.720 --> 0:15:14.440 general attitude, just to be you know, vague myself, would 0:15:14.440 --> 0:15:18.080 be that we're going, we're not going. The campaign is 0:15:18.120 --> 0:15:21.920 not going to just shut down and not listen to business, 0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:26.000 and that Kamala Harrison knows how to read the room, 0:15:27.000 --> 0:15:30.680 and the room last night called for a different kind 0:15:30.720 --> 0:15:37.840 of speech. And you know, of course taxation, corporate tax, 0:15:38.320 --> 0:15:42.880 the idea that the wealthy will be taxed more to 0:15:43.040 --> 0:15:46.600 pay to support some of the middle class initiatives that 0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:51.640 she presented last night is I think definitely you know, 0:15:51.800 --> 0:15:57.120 on the table and it's it. Whereas Biden sort of 0:15:57.240 --> 0:16:01.479 leaned forward on that, she's she is being less specific 0:16:01.600 --> 0:16:05.200 right now about talking about those policies because the goal 0:16:05.320 --> 0:16:07.680 in the short amount of time is to get the 0:16:07.720 --> 0:16:12.680 most number of votes, and that's the strategy. If she's 0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:16.920 less specific, Trump doesn't have the bait to attack her. 0:16:18.360 --> 0:16:24.080 So it's a political strategy. It's and these things are 0:16:24.080 --> 0:16:28.240 being discussed, the people are in the room, but it's 0:16:28.280 --> 0:16:30.040 not the number one priority right. 0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:36.040 Now, Abigail, I mean, Amanda, excuse me, do business leaders 0:16:36.200 --> 0:16:42.200 know what they're getting with a potential Kamala Harris presidency 0:16:42.240 --> 0:16:46.760 because of the Joe Biden administration or are they still uncertain? 0:16:48.760 --> 0:16:50.480 Well, of course I could point you to the piece 0:16:50.520 --> 0:16:52.920 because we were able. One of the advantages of being 0:16:52.960 --> 0:16:57.080 here is to have some rich sideline conversations with a 0:16:57.240 --> 0:17:03.400 variety of figures. And I think and what the policy 0:17:03.440 --> 0:17:07.560 advisors for Kamala Harris that we talked to said is that, yes, 0:17:07.720 --> 0:17:12.920 there is a sense of somewhat of predictability, uh because 0:17:13.320 --> 0:17:17.160 she has been a member of the Biden administration. Where 0:17:17.160 --> 0:17:21.399 there's a break is that in some ways there was 0:17:21.440 --> 0:17:27.480 an overreaction to the notion that Obama was maybe too 0:17:27.560 --> 0:17:31.320 close to UH to to be too cozy to business leaders. 0:17:32.359 --> 0:17:35.920 And you know, so there were appointments that were sort 0:17:35.920 --> 0:17:41.000 of distinctly let's not take people from corporate America. I 0:17:41.040 --> 0:17:45.359 think she's going to be more open and I think 0:17:45.480 --> 0:17:49.520 you can see from the speeches there that you know, 0:17:49.560 --> 0:17:51.879 the idea is that she's going to be a leader 0:17:51.920 --> 0:17:54.880 that has a wide range. So there's there are going 0:17:54.920 --> 0:17:57.119 to be billionaires in the room, as there were on 0:17:57.160 --> 0:18:02.000 that stage. They're going to be presentatives of unions and 0:18:02.359 --> 0:18:07.879 corporate America and activists, and it's her responsibility to to 0:18:08.200 --> 0:18:13.240 listen and you know, make the good decisions. As she says, 0:18:14.200 --> 0:18:18.000 to quote her speech for all Americans and that's her 0:18:18.760 --> 0:18:21.840 Uh that that's her pitch right now. 0:18:22.040 --> 0:18:24.000 We only have about forty five seconds left. But what 0:18:24.040 --> 0:18:26.479 specific economic policies do you think she needs to be 0:18:26.560 --> 0:18:28.960 most specific with moving forward? 0:18:30.880 --> 0:18:35.080 Well, I think that she needs to address the questions 0:18:35.119 --> 0:18:40.959 on people's mind. Is with the huge deficit, with the 0:18:41.080 --> 0:18:44.760 need to develop revenue, where does the money come from 0:18:45.359 --> 0:18:49.639 to put forward some of her initiatives to help the 0:18:49.640 --> 0:18:55.320 middle class. And you know, her the theory that lifting 0:18:55.359 --> 0:18:58.080 the middle class is going to help big business is 0:18:58.119 --> 0:19:00.760 a bridge that she needs to build and define. 0:19:01.880 --> 0:19:03.760 Amanda, we're gonna have to leave it there. Thanks so 0:19:03.840 --> 0:19:06.680 much for joining us from Chicago after a whirlwind few 0:19:06.760 --> 0:19:10.280 days at the Democratic National Convention. Check out Amanda's story. 0:19:10.560 --> 0:19:12.400 She's part of the team that wrote it, a great 0:19:12.400 --> 0:19:15.560 group of reporters the Dispatch from Chicago. It's among the 0:19:15.560 --> 0:19:17.800 most read on the Bloomberg terminal. Check it out at 0:19:17.800 --> 0:19:21.439 Bloomberg dot com as well. Amanda Gordon, Wealth team reporter 0:19:21.560 --> 0:19:23.320 for Bloomberg News. 0:19:25.040 --> 0:19:28.880 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Listen live 0:19:29.000 --> 0:19:32.160 each weekday starting at two pm Eastern on Applecar Play 0:19:32.200 --> 0:19:35.080 and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. You can 0:19:35.119 --> 0:19:38.320 also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New 0:19:38.440 --> 0:19:42.040 York station, Just say Alexa Play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 0:19:43.400 --> 0:19:46.639 Okay, some news in the crypto world. It's been a 0:19:46.680 --> 0:19:49.080 month since the much anticipated E three ETFs launched in 0:19:49.119 --> 0:19:53.240 the US. Investors don't seem that interested, though. The nine 0:19:53.240 --> 0:19:57.200 exchange traded funds that hold the second largest cryptocurrency directly 0:19:57.200 --> 0:20:00.480 saw investor outflows Thursday, free sixth consecutive date. It's the 0:20:00.480 --> 0:20:03.960 longest streak of withdrawals since their debut back on July 0:20:04.040 --> 0:20:07.560 twenty third. During the same period, US ETF's holding Bigcoin 0:20:07.640 --> 0:20:11.359 saw inflows daily. This is equating to data compiled by Bloomberg. 0:20:11.760 --> 0:20:13.359 We've got with us the president and CEO of the 0:20:13.359 --> 0:20:16.560 public health a bitcoin mining company, Clean Spark. Zach Bradford 0:20:16.640 --> 0:20:18.880 is back with US. Cleans Bark has a three point 0:20:18.920 --> 0:20:21.879 two billion dollar market cap, up around fifteen percent so 0:20:21.960 --> 0:20:25.320 far this year. Zach joins US from Henderson, Nevada. 0:20:25.840 --> 0:20:26.440 Zach, good to. 0:20:26.400 --> 0:20:29.600 Have you back with us. Hey, I want to get 0:20:29.600 --> 0:20:32.760 your thoughts on why we're seeing sort of less interest 0:20:32.840 --> 0:20:36.639 in these ether ETFs than we saw in our seeing 0:20:36.680 --> 0:20:38.480 with the bitcoin ETFs. Why do you see this? 0:20:39.800 --> 0:20:41.480 You know, I may be a little biased, of course 0:20:41.520 --> 0:20:43.840 as a bitcoin minor, but you know, I think it's 0:20:43.920 --> 0:20:47.320 because of you know, bitcoin, I believe is the currency 0:20:47.359 --> 0:20:52.359 of the future, is decentralized, it has all the benefits 0:20:52.359 --> 0:20:54.959 that come with that, you know, ethereum I see as 0:20:55.160 --> 0:20:58.199 instead of a currency, I see as a platform. So 0:20:58.280 --> 0:21:01.160 its value comes down to, you know, how people use 0:21:01.200 --> 0:21:03.200 it as a platform and all the things that get 0:21:03.200 --> 0:21:05.919 built on top of it, whereas bitcoin has a different 0:21:05.960 --> 0:21:08.560 sort of intrinsic value with the energy that backs it, 0:21:09.440 --> 0:21:12.320 and I think that's much more interesting to investors. Of course, 0:21:12.440 --> 0:21:13.439 on a biased opinion. 0:21:13.520 --> 0:21:15.520 Yeah, I was going to say, you know, again, you know, 0:21:15.960 --> 0:21:19.760 full disclosure, you run a bitcoin mining company, but it's 0:21:19.760 --> 0:21:21.520 still interesting to get your thoughts on it. You follow 0:21:21.560 --> 0:21:24.480 the entire industry. Hey, speaking of bitcoin miners, there was 0:21:24.480 --> 0:21:26.640 a lot of concern with the having a few months 0:21:26.680 --> 0:21:29.520 ago that it would really affect other business of miners. 0:21:29.560 --> 0:21:32.119 Talk a little bit about how it has affected or 0:21:32.119 --> 0:21:34.320 has not affected your business and how you're moving forward. 0:21:35.680 --> 0:21:38.280 Yeah, the halfing it occurs every four years where the 0:21:38.320 --> 0:21:41.440 rewards that we earn as miners are cut in half, 0:21:41.840 --> 0:21:46.080 and it did have a big impact on the entire industry. 0:21:46.400 --> 0:21:49.080 And I think what it showed is it showed the 0:21:49.119 --> 0:21:52.359 miners that prepared and were ready for the having to occur. 0:21:52.960 --> 0:21:54.960 And you know, the best way to be ready for 0:21:54.960 --> 0:21:58.120 the halfing was to have a highly any energy efficient 0:21:58.240 --> 0:22:01.720 data centers and energy efficiency. So on our side, we 0:22:02.119 --> 0:22:04.639 spent the prior two years leading up to it to 0:22:04.720 --> 0:22:08.439 build the most efficient fleet amongst the public miners, and 0:22:08.520 --> 0:22:11.440 it served us very well, and I think it's been 0:22:11.480 --> 0:22:14.320 more painful for those that didn't have the same preparations. 0:22:14.320 --> 0:22:17.120