1 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:09,280 Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Psychology of Your Twenties, 2 00:00:09,920 --> 00:00:12,280 Speaker 1: the podcast where we talk through some of the big 3 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:16,880 Speaker 1: life changes and transitions of our twenties and what they 4 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 1: mean for our psychology. Hello everybody, Welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 1: Welcome back to the podcast. New listeners, old listeners, Wherever 6 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:32,920 Speaker 1: you are in the world, it is so great to 7 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:36,120 Speaker 1: have you here, back for another episode as we, of 8 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:40,839 Speaker 1: course break down the Psychology of your twenties. This is 9 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 1: an episode that I've wanted to do for such a 10 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:45,879 Speaker 1: long time, and it's just kind of continued to sit 11 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 1: on the list waiting for me to pick it up 12 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 1: one day, and today's that day, because we are going 13 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 1: to be talking about female friendships, specifically the preconception that 14 00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: they are inherently difficult, that they always end up spiraling 15 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 1: or codependent or toxic, and why that may be or 16 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:08,800 Speaker 1: if that is even the case. Spoiler alert, it's a 17 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 1: lot more complicated than that. I also asked you all 18 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:12,840 Speaker 1: the listeners. 19 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:16,119 Speaker 2: To contribute to this episode. I wanted to hear your 20 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:20,400 Speaker 2: stories of female friendship, the good, the bad, the in between, 21 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 2: what you've learned, what you wish you'd known sooner, and 22 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:30,000 Speaker 2: what I was really surprised by was how absolutely divided 23 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:34,800 Speaker 2: we are. There were two very very distinct boats. Boat 24 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:37,959 Speaker 2: one was people who have maybe had some bad experiences 25 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:42,679 Speaker 2: in the past, but truly believed that female friendship was 26 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 2: one of the greatest gifts, was so meaningful, supportive, intimate, 27 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 2: they wouldn't give it up in a second. The second 28 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 2: group of people were those those of you who really 29 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 2: had been burned, perhaps a few too many times, who 30 00:01:56,960 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 2: saw female friendships as too dramatic, too over hyped, too intense. 31 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:05,600 Speaker 2: I'm someone who sits right in the middle. I think 32 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:09,120 Speaker 2: your friends are your first loves, and that often means 33 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:11,400 Speaker 2: that they will also be some of your first heartbreaks. 34 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 2: Humans are inherently, very very flawed, but the nature of 35 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:20,080 Speaker 2: female friendships, being that they are so vulnerable, so deeply feeling, 36 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:26,200 Speaker 2: so intense, makes them equally special and sometimes disastrous. And 37 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:28,679 Speaker 2: I think that they have an increased tendency to fall 38 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 2: apart because of the things that make them so beautiful, 39 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:35,840 Speaker 2: because they are so intimate and expressive and deep, because 40 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 2: we place a lot of expectations on them, but also 41 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:41,919 Speaker 2: because of this female rivalry that is very much doked 42 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 2: by a patriarchal society that would have us compete for 43 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:50,520 Speaker 2: male attention, that would make us constantly compare ourselves. What 44 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:53,760 Speaker 2: I want to do in this episode is explore this 45 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:57,920 Speaker 2: and really dive into the complexity of female friendship. I 46 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 2: really want to move past although stereotypes that women can't 47 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 2: have long standing friends because they are just too caddy 48 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 2: or bitchy, or dramatic or mean, and actually look at 49 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 2: the psychology here that why is it the case that 50 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 2: so many of us are having an experience in which 51 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 2: our female friendships burned so bright but also end up 52 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 2: burning out quite quickly or exhaust themselves so soon. Beyond that, 53 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:29,960 Speaker 2: how do we recover from the tragic female friendship breakup 54 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 2: and manage that heightened, magnified bond between us and our girlfriends? 55 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 2: How do we make sure that those relationships and those 56 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:43,000 Speaker 2: connections last. There is so much to explore today. I 57 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:45,960 Speaker 2: also have to say once again a huge thank you 58 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 2: to you, the listeners and to those of you who contributed. 59 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 2: Thank you for your honesty, thank you for your candor, 60 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:56,120 Speaker 2: thank you for how expressive you all were. It is 61 00:03:56,400 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 2: bound to be very very illuminating episode, I think, and 62 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 2: if you've ever asked yourself Why is this so hard? 63 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:06,280 Speaker 2: Why is this so strained when it comes to your 64 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 2: female friendships. This is a great place to start, So 65 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 2: without further ado, let's get into it. I'll go on 66 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:20,279 Speaker 2: the record straight out the gate and say that I 67 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:24,560 Speaker 2: don't think that female friendships are inherently bad or hard 68 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:28,040 Speaker 2: or toxic. I don't think that they're doomed to fail. Rather, 69 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 2: I think that part of what makes female friendships so 70 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 2: tricky and intense is also what allows them to be 71 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:40,720 Speaker 2: so beautiful and fulfilling. The good and the bad go 72 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 2: hand in hand. Female friendships are so deep and intimate, 73 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 2: but that also means that there are higher expectations attached, 74 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 2: which can weigh heavily on the relationship. Female friends have 75 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 2: so much in common. We have so many of the 76 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 2: same emotions, the same feelings towards the world, a lot 77 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:01,880 Speaker 2: of the same experience, says, but that can also make 78 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:07,040 Speaker 2: it a hotbed for comparison. We often end up telling 79 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 2: our female friends everything. They make us feel so strong, 80 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 2: so supported, But when the friendship changes, when something slightly 81 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:17,720 Speaker 2: shifts gets in the way, it can be so devastating 82 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:23,680 Speaker 2: because we feel the separation even more profoundly. In my experience. 83 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 2: The female friendships that work really, really well are those 84 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 2: that find that really small, tiny slice of balance. Each 85 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 2: person expects the same from the other person is giving 86 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:39,160 Speaker 2: the same, feels the same about their friend. They are 87 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 2: mutually secure or have done or have done the work 88 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:47,440 Speaker 2: to kind of address their insecurity, and they also tend 89 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 2: to have the same conflict style, so it's not skewed. 90 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:54,480 Speaker 2: One person, you know, doesn't enjoy confrontation whilst the other 91 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:58,040 Speaker 2: person is conflict averse. That's something that we don't often 92 00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:01,599 Speaker 2: think of, but I hear so many examples of people 93 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:06,480 Speaker 2: with friends who suddenly up and left or suddenly confronted 94 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 2: them with all these problems that have been building up 95 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:12,480 Speaker 2: for ages, and I think that a lot of what 96 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:16,360 Speaker 2: that comes down to is having a skewed idea of 97 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 2: conflict and a skewed idea of how to address problems. 98 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 2: If you want long lasting friends, sometimes you do actually 99 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 2: have to be able to have it out and argue 100 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:31,120 Speaker 2: and work through it. But it's about coming to that 101 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:34,320 Speaker 2: from the same kind of perspective. And as women, we 102 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:38,719 Speaker 2: are so conditioned into being conflict averse to not coming 103 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:43,279 Speaker 2: off as dramatic. We don't want to fulfill that bitchy stereotype, 104 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 2: and that often has the opposite effect of making us 105 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 2: more emotionally cut off. We have such intense close connections 106 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 2: that eventually every emotion becomes magnified. But the problem is 107 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:00,040 Speaker 2: that we have only ever learned how to cope with 108 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:04,279 Speaker 2: the fluffy good feelings. So the friendship is really really intense. 109 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:07,599 Speaker 2: But so as the times when someone disappoints you or 110 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 2: someone hurts you, but we don't know how to have 111 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 2: those difficult conversations. It's something that I think men have 112 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:17,360 Speaker 2: an advantage in when it comes to friendship. They are 113 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 2: typically allowed to be more confrontational because people expect them 114 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 2: to be less in control of their emotions, and they've 115 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 2: also normally been conditioned to be more outwardly expressive for 116 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 2: specific feelings, not for you know, feelings like sadness or 117 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:37,240 Speaker 2: talking about what's making them depressed or unhappy. No, those 118 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 2: things we know are very much a suppressed emotion for men. 119 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 2: But when it comes to things like anger, frustration, stress, 120 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:49,360 Speaker 2: those are permitted to have an outward expression. So of 121 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 2: course that often gives them sometimes an excuse to be violent, 122 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 2: But on a deeper level, when men are angry at 123 00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 2: a friend. They tend to just say it or show it. 124 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:04,440 Speaker 2: Women are a lot more subtle. Some people might say 125 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:07,560 Speaker 2: that women play mind games. I think it's a little 126 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 2: bit more complicated than that. I think that we just 127 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:15,080 Speaker 2: don't want to jeopardize the friendship by just speaking out 128 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:18,720 Speaker 2: our fears and speaking out our problems, but that actually 129 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 2: ends up having the reverse effect of making the friendship harder. 130 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 2: And I was speaking to my boyfriend about this, just 131 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 2: kind of getting his opinion on his friendships with other 132 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 2: men and how they resolve conflict. Firstly, he said that 133 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:35,880 Speaker 2: they didn't have any conflict, which I was like, okay, well, congratulations. 134 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:38,360 Speaker 2: But when I push him a little bit further, he 135 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 2: was like, well, we'll just have a fight. And he 136 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:44,719 Speaker 2: said this, and I don't know, take what you want 137 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 2: from this, but he said, I'd much rather get like 138 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:49,200 Speaker 2: a punch in the face and have it be over 139 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 2: and done with and know how they felt, then slowly 140 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:53,840 Speaker 2: be iced out over the course of three months and 141 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:58,760 Speaker 2: lose that friendship entirely. And studies have shown that men 142 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 2: and women do. We fight differently for men, and especially 143 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:06,160 Speaker 2: between the same gender within the same sex, So men 144 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:08,880 Speaker 2: fighting men, women fighting women it's very different. I feel 145 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 2: like everyone has some idea of that. But for men, 146 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:15,720 Speaker 2: in whatever form it is, it's often more direct and practical, 147 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 2: some would say violent. For women, it can also be violent, 148 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 2: but it can be emotionally violent, and it's often more 149 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:26,600 Speaker 2: indirect and once again emotional, which leaves a lot more 150 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:32,280 Speaker 2: room for interpretation and hurt feelings without resolution. So that's 151 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 2: my first big point. Maybe female friendships are harder because 152 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:40,320 Speaker 2: we actually don't know how to fight with each other. 153 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:44,640 Speaker 2: We don't know how to communicate the hard things, and 154 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 2: we don't want to come off as if we're being 155 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:51,840 Speaker 2: too bitchy or demanding or emotional by addressing our feelings. 156 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 2: But we also, I think, have this aversion to talking 157 00:09:55,440 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 2: about the hard things about our relationship with someone because 158 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:02,320 Speaker 2: we think that we won't be able to recover from that. 159 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 2: We're so used to being supportive, being there for them 160 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 2: in their conflicts with other people, we don't want to 161 00:10:08,559 --> 00:10:13,960 Speaker 2: experience that ourselves. Of all the stories you submitted, one 162 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:18,960 Speaker 2: of the biggest themes was also friendships that just ended 163 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:22,520 Speaker 2: because someone ghosted the other person. That was such a 164 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 2: huge theme. Sometimes even after five to ten years of friendship. 165 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 2: Here was one of the stories shared by a listener, 166 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 2: My best friend of thirteen years just stopped talking to me. 167 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:36,320 Speaker 2: She said I had done something, refused to say what, 168 00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:38,760 Speaker 2: refused to meet for weeks, refused to speak to me. 169 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 2: Then when I couldn't do the one date she suggested, 170 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 2: she kicked off and said that I was being unfair 171 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:47,200 Speaker 2: and dramatic. It's such a weird thing because I really 172 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 2: don't know what went wrong. The last time I had 173 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 2: seen her, she'd come to a party I'd hosted for 174 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 2: Gallantine's Day, shut herself in a room, had taken the gifts, 175 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:58,080 Speaker 2: barely spoke, and then when I mentioned a photo of 176 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:01,160 Speaker 2: the group, ran from the room. It has been strange. 177 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:03,880 Speaker 2: I was the one to comfort her after that experience. 178 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:06,840 Speaker 2: I was the one to try and fix it. In 179 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:09,120 Speaker 2: the end, after some advice from my friends, I realized 180 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 2: I was a twenty four year old in a teenage 181 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:14,319 Speaker 2: argument and told her I wasn't going to continue the friendship. 182 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:19,120 Speaker 2: That just complete shut down from her end must have 183 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:22,600 Speaker 2: been so difficult to manage. And here's the thing. I'm 184 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 2: sure she has her side of the story, as we 185 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 2: all do. But what I find equally interesting and strange 186 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:31,960 Speaker 2: about female friendships is that Again, we talk about nearly 187 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 2: everything else in our lives, but we really struggle with 188 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 2: talking about our feelings towards a person to that person, 189 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:44,679 Speaker 2: especially when they are deemed to be negative. The easiest solution, therefore, 190 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:48,720 Speaker 2: is to just avoid them altogether and to cut them off. 191 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 2: You know, openly communicating with your friends is hard at first, 192 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:57,080 Speaker 2: but I think it's something that you realize as you mature. 193 00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 2: You get what you give from that, from that argument, 194 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 2: from that conflict, from just putting it all on the 195 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:07,760 Speaker 2: line right often having it out, saying what you're feeling, 196 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:11,840 Speaker 2: really addressing the core problems or rot in your relationship 197 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:17,440 Speaker 2: provides you with a better relationship, Your friendship improves because 198 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:19,960 Speaker 2: it's part of your journey. Or we're gonna move on 199 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 2: from that now because I feel like we've spent enough 200 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 2: time talking about conflict. But this does kind of link 201 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:28,319 Speaker 2: me to a separate point about why we find female 202 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:32,040 Speaker 2: friendships so hard but also so rewarding. They are just 203 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:35,319 Speaker 2: more expressive, They are more complex, and therefore more intense. 204 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:39,720 Speaker 2: A big element of this is the level of disclosure 205 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:42,920 Speaker 2: that we have in female friendships, which is basically a 206 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:45,320 Speaker 2: fancy way of saying we tend to tell each other everything. 207 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:49,720 Speaker 2: There is nothing that is off limits to private, to TMI. 208 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:53,640 Speaker 2: We're constantly chatting about every little detail in a way 209 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:57,680 Speaker 2: that men typically don't. I had one male listener write 210 00:12:57,679 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 2: in and say I always felt jealous to female friendships 211 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 2: and wish I had that same bond with my male 212 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 2: friends because from the outside, female friendship seems so involved 213 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 2: and deep. I feel like none of my male friends 214 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 2: want to hear about how my day went, what I 215 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:15,720 Speaker 2: ate for lunch, what I'm feeling my heartbreak. Telling each 216 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 2: other everything might seem kind of unimportant and obvious, but 217 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:29,000 Speaker 2: that level of disclosure builds familiarity quick it builds trust rapidly, 218 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:34,440 Speaker 2: both of which are core foundations of interpersonal attraction and bonding, 219 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:38,400 Speaker 2: the same kind of bonding that happens sometimes between siblings 220 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 2: or family members, or between you and a romantic partner. 221 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 2: The more you share, the more memories you have, the 222 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:49,680 Speaker 2: more you let people into your private, hidden, internal life, 223 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:52,840 Speaker 2: the deeper the connection becomes, and we get to that 224 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 2: level of vulnerability faster because we tend to be more 225 00:13:56,400 --> 00:14:01,719 Speaker 2: open sooner into the friendship. Why exactly do we do this? 226 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:06,720 Speaker 2: So there is this textbook titled The Evolutionary Psychology of Women. 227 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:09,480 Speaker 2: That is fantastic. I never thought that I would be 228 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:13,720 Speaker 2: recommending a textbook, but here I am, and I love this. 229 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:15,760 Speaker 2: I don't know why. I just find this book really 230 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 2: really fascinating. And they have this whole chapter on female 231 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:22,400 Speaker 2: friendship titled more Like a Sister Women in Friendship, and 232 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 2: in it the author speaks about how female friendships are 233 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 2: firstly more intense and exclusive than those of men because 234 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 2: of how much we communicate. We already knew that, but 235 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:37,800 Speaker 2: this causes the friendships that women develop to really mimic 236 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:44,320 Speaker 2: the close communal relationships normally found between blood relatives, which 237 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 2: is why we feel like sisters. We feel like there 238 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:51,960 Speaker 2: is we're more than friends. We're more than friends. There 239 00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:55,920 Speaker 2: is this strong focus on empathy and a responsiveness to 240 00:14:56,000 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 2: other people's needs. Maybe in the past, from an evolutionary perspective, 241 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 2: did this help support childcare needs where women needed that 242 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:08,120 Speaker 2: trust through chatter in order to rely on each other more, 243 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:10,920 Speaker 2: or it would have helped with survival when the men 244 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 2: were away, to ensure that the women were bonded within 245 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:17,920 Speaker 2: the family group even when they weren't related to still 246 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:21,360 Speaker 2: feel like they were related and what does this actually produce? 247 00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:25,120 Speaker 2: What does this constant chatter communication bring with it? Well, 248 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:28,920 Speaker 2: mainly it's intimacy and its vulnerability. You feel like you 249 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 2: know someone so well and they know you as one. 250 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:35,320 Speaker 2: If you put it, my female friends are the only 251 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:38,680 Speaker 2: people who see me for who I am as a person. 252 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:42,400 Speaker 2: My parents see me as their daughter, my siblings as 253 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 2: their little sister, and my boyfriend as his girlfriend, and 254 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:48,720 Speaker 2: all of those are select versions of me. But my 255 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 2: girlfriends see me exactly how I come. They don't care 256 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 2: if I'm obedient or sexy, or smart or loyal. They 257 00:15:57,040 --> 00:16:01,400 Speaker 2: like me just for me. Where is a real platonic 258 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:06,960 Speaker 2: love there? Letting someone be their authentic self is an 259 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:11,080 Speaker 2: act of true love. So firstly, we have a vulnerability 260 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:15,160 Speaker 2: that emerges, and from that vulnerability comes the second component, 261 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:19,280 Speaker 2: which is expectation. If I've opened myself up and you 262 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 2: have as well, if you know me deeper than anyone 263 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 2: has ever known me, I begin to expect something more 264 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 2: from you. You know, when I need help with something, 265 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:32,720 Speaker 2: when I'm going through a hard time a breakup, You'll 266 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:35,360 Speaker 2: be there for me. That's what we begin to believe. 267 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:38,960 Speaker 2: We have this mutual acknowledgment that if we trust each other, 268 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 2: if we're vulnerable with each other, and therefore we love 269 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:45,400 Speaker 2: each other, we'll show that through effort and favors and time. 270 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:49,760 Speaker 2: But at what point do those expectations get out of hand? 271 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:51,920 Speaker 2: And what happens when you slip up? You know you're 272 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:55,240 Speaker 2: going through a hard time, you're misreading signals, you can't 273 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:56,960 Speaker 2: show up for your friends the way that they have 274 00:16:57,080 --> 00:17:00,840 Speaker 2: for you in the past, then things kind of explode. 275 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 2: The reason that female friendships are so hard is because 276 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 2: there is a huge expectation to, yes, almost be like 277 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:11,000 Speaker 2: sisters or family to one another, and sometimes that's really 278 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:14,440 Speaker 2: hard to do for everyone around you. It's really hard 279 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:16,919 Speaker 2: to do for every single one of your friends. You 280 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:21,960 Speaker 2: get kind of tired, and it kind of feels like 281 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:24,239 Speaker 2: eventually you need to take a step back, you need 282 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:26,199 Speaker 2: to see other friends, you need to be your own person, 283 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 2: or you're going to let them down. Here's a story 284 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 2: about that from a listener. When I was in my twenties, 285 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 2: I found it really hard to maintain close female friendships 286 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:37,640 Speaker 2: and have girlfriends because I would expect too much of them. 287 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:40,600 Speaker 2: I had a friend who we will call Sally, who 288 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:42,480 Speaker 2: I got really close to my first year out of 289 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:46,080 Speaker 2: high school. We would do everything together. I'd never really 290 00:17:46,119 --> 00:17:48,160 Speaker 2: had a best friend before, and she made me feel 291 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:51,800 Speaker 2: so happy, safe seeing all of those things. But then 292 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:54,480 Speaker 2: I started to notice her putting some distance between us. 293 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:57,760 Speaker 2: I would expect her to answer instantly instantly and she 294 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 2: no longer was, or I would do favors for her 295 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 2: and she wouldn't reciprocate. She also started to make better friends. 296 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:09,440 Speaker 2: The expectations we have are sometimes too high because our 297 00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:12,160 Speaker 2: female friendships can mean so much. But you can't rely 298 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:16,120 Speaker 2: entirely on one person because sometimes that would smother them. 299 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 2: So I've learned to lower my expectations. This made me 300 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:23,680 Speaker 2: quite sad to hear, because it's a question I think 301 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:26,240 Speaker 2: a lot of us have when it comes to friendship. 302 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:30,399 Speaker 2: Do you give up that heightened level of intensity and intimacy. 303 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:33,679 Speaker 2: Do you lower your expectations just a little bit for 304 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:36,520 Speaker 2: the sake of longevity, even if you don't get as 305 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:39,400 Speaker 2: much out of the friendship, or do you bet everything 306 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:43,040 Speaker 2: on this friendship? Do you get the matching tattoos? Do 307 00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:47,280 Speaker 2: you become insanely close knowing that this could eventually change 308 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:51,199 Speaker 2: and you could lose this bond? It's complex. There is 309 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:54,199 Speaker 2: no one answer yet Again, that's the dilemma when it 310 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:57,800 Speaker 2: comes to these almost codependent situations. They burn bright, but 311 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:00,920 Speaker 2: they can burn quick and eventually need to settle down. 312 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:03,960 Speaker 2: That's going to be an adjustment period, and during that 313 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:10,120 Speaker 2: period is when things can become tricky managing expectations. Now, 314 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:12,800 Speaker 2: something we need to talk about that we haven't yet 315 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:18,160 Speaker 2: is jealousy, jealousy, envy, competition, because that is possibly one 316 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:22,320 Speaker 2: of the biggest contributors to female friendship breakdown. I think 317 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:25,439 Speaker 2: I have ever encountered and you were all on my 318 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:28,280 Speaker 2: side with this. So many of you noted that women 319 00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:32,440 Speaker 2: are constantly pitted against each other in almost every circumstance 320 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:37,440 Speaker 2: by a patriarchal society that benefits from insecurity. It benefits 321 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 2: from women focusing on seeing each other as the problem 322 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:43,119 Speaker 2: rather than a system that means we feel like we 323 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:47,640 Speaker 2: can't all succeed. Think about it in an online context, 324 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:52,920 Speaker 2: what are women not judged on in comparison to other women? Trolls, 325 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:57,000 Speaker 2: online critics, people in the comments will always pit women 326 00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:02,240 Speaker 2: against each other based on their bodiesccess, their relationship, their careers, 327 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:07,480 Speaker 2: and it's hard not to buy into that, especially especially 328 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:11,760 Speaker 2: when male attention gets involved. So we're going to talk 329 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:14,760 Speaker 2: about all of that and more after this short break. 330 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:23,399 Speaker 2: Stay with us. Society has such a weird obsession with 331 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 2: pitying successful women against each other for what reason, truly, 332 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:31,879 Speaker 2: for what reason for entertainment, to fuel insecurity, to rage 333 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:35,240 Speaker 2: bait people and get likes, to get views attention, I 334 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:38,240 Speaker 2: truly don't know. But it really does impact how we 335 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 2: are able to relate to each other, because it's difficult 336 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:44,080 Speaker 2: not to buy into this narrative that only a few 337 00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 2: of us can succeed, only a few of us can 338 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:48,960 Speaker 2: be the best. And it's not that we're competing with men, 339 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:52,359 Speaker 2: we're competing with each other. We are both each other's 340 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 2: best friend and confidante, but also enemy and number one 341 00:20:56,560 --> 00:21:01,600 Speaker 2: competition based on how society continues to hate and view women. 342 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:05,000 Speaker 2: There is a real history of female rivalry that comes 343 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:08,520 Speaker 2: from a historical lack of opportunities for women due to 344 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:12,280 Speaker 2: discrimination and inequality. It's only in the last seventy to 345 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:15,960 Speaker 2: sixty years that women really began to be allowed into 346 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:20,880 Speaker 2: leadership roles, into highly esteemed jobs, into positions of success 347 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:26,440 Speaker 2: and power, even into some universities. You know, universities like Harvard, Oxford, Stanford, 348 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:29,720 Speaker 2: A lot of them didn't even go co ed until 349 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:33,360 Speaker 2: the nineteen twenties or even the nineteen forties nineteen fifties, 350 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:38,120 Speaker 2: and even then classes were separated and only about fifteen 351 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:41,920 Speaker 2: percent of graduates for female. When there is a smaller 352 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:45,560 Speaker 2: pool of opportunities for a section of society and for 353 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:48,720 Speaker 2: a section of the population that makes up fifty percent 354 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 2: of the world, but has only given a small sliver 355 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:55,120 Speaker 2: of what is available for the other group, naturally that 356 00:21:55,200 --> 00:22:00,560 Speaker 2: breeds competition, and it breeds competition not between the two groups, 357 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:05,800 Speaker 2: but between the group that has less between women, between 358 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:10,840 Speaker 2: the group that is deprived of equality. That scarcity mindset 359 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:15,680 Speaker 2: still really haunts female friendships today. Despite that inequality, I 360 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,720 Speaker 2: think starting to diminish. If you know that all the 361 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 2: men in your group will get an internship, but there 362 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:24,040 Speaker 2: are only two spots for women and ten of your 363 00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:27,879 Speaker 2: friends are competing, they are of course your friends, but 364 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:30,879 Speaker 2: and you know there is that sense of camaraderie, especially 365 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:33,879 Speaker 2: in a male dominated space, but it's hard not to 366 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:36,840 Speaker 2: also see them as a bit of an enemy because 367 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:39,919 Speaker 2: they might get the opportunity that you really wanted, and 368 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:43,160 Speaker 2: it can impact your relationship in a way that sometimes 369 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:46,520 Speaker 2: men don't have to deal with. That is the psychology 370 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:51,479 Speaker 2: behind scarcity, or they're only being one seat at the table. 371 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:54,320 Speaker 2: When something is rare, we place a lot of value 372 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:57,199 Speaker 2: on it, which also means great a rivalry between the 373 00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:02,439 Speaker 2: people that all want it. Petition may be less exaggerated now, 374 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:05,919 Speaker 2: but for our mothers and our grandmother's generation, it was 375 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:09,160 Speaker 2: very prominent, and those are the people who we learn 376 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:12,959 Speaker 2: a lot of our social skills and way of relating 377 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:18,920 Speaker 2: to others from. It's interesting, really to me to hear 378 00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:23,520 Speaker 2: how my mom and my friend's mothers have such different 379 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:27,800 Speaker 2: attitudes around their female friends than we do now. An 380 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 2: example of this I always think of is one of 381 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:34,040 Speaker 2: my best friends a while ago bought the same dress 382 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 2: as me, and it's this really cute black beach dress, 383 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:40,199 Speaker 2: and she texted me about it, and she sent me 384 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 2: this really nervous voice message and it was like five 385 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:46,280 Speaker 2: minutes long of her being like, I'm so sorry I 386 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:48,359 Speaker 2: bought the same dress as you. I'm gonna return it. 387 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:50,600 Speaker 2: You can hate me if you want, And it was 388 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:52,880 Speaker 2: honestly so strange. I was like, no, no, I love this, 389 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:55,719 Speaker 2: Like the dress is gorgeous. If it was on sale, 390 00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:58,560 Speaker 2: you should definitely keep it. I love being matching with 391 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:00,320 Speaker 2: my friends. Who doesn't love showing up in the same 392 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:03,399 Speaker 2: outfit as someone? And she called me like ten minutes 393 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:06,560 Speaker 2: later after I messaged her back, and she was like, dude, 394 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:09,280 Speaker 2: I'm so sorry. That was all my mom. My mom 395 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:11,320 Speaker 2: was getting in my head. She was traveling with her 396 00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:13,800 Speaker 2: at the time. She was making such a big deal 397 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:16,240 Speaker 2: about this. She kept saying that, you know, I was 398 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:19,159 Speaker 2: going to be mad that she was a bad friend 399 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:22,919 Speaker 2: for copying me. That is a mindset that, yes, I 400 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 2: think is slowly becoming extinct, but is still present in 401 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:31,359 Speaker 2: the generations of the women before us in a up 402 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:33,679 Speaker 2: subconscious way, Like I don't always think that it is 403 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 2: them trying to tear each other down, but I do 404 00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:40,960 Speaker 2: think unconsciously. Back then, there was more of a sense 405 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:45,879 Speaker 2: of competition between their fellow women, especially women who were 406 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:50,000 Speaker 2: in quite a successful group. Women know it's harder to 407 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:53,239 Speaker 2: get ahead, so we developed more jealousy, envy. We cam 408 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:56,760 Speaker 2: pare more frequently, and that can wear down the relationship. 409 00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:00,600 Speaker 2: Let's hear from a listener about this, because literally I 410 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,359 Speaker 2: read her DM and I was like, this is spot 411 00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:05,879 Speaker 2: on exactly what we're talking about. I had a friend 412 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:08,600 Speaker 2: whose life fell apart simply because I was doing better 413 00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:10,840 Speaker 2: than her. We ended up going to the same UNI, 414 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:12,639 Speaker 2: so it felt like we were starting off on the 415 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:15,879 Speaker 2: same foot. Very quickly, I began achieving a lot of 416 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:19,440 Speaker 2: amazing things in college and my personal life, and it 417 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:23,400 Speaker 2: led to the deterioration of our friendship because she confessed 418 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 2: she couldn't handle me having more than her and being 419 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:30,040 Speaker 2: quote unquote better than her. She even ended up starting 420 00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:33,320 Speaker 2: therapy because of it. We fell out and haven't been 421 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:36,439 Speaker 2: the same since. I truly feel like I'm grieving this 422 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:38,879 Speaker 2: friendship because she meant the world to me, and I 423 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:42,439 Speaker 2: really value platonic friendships as someone who was single. Anyway, 424 00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:44,040 Speaker 2: She's moved on with new friends who are in a 425 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:47,440 Speaker 2: similar place in life than her and seems very very content. 426 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:51,440 Speaker 2: That's so unfair because often the first people we want 427 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:55,359 Speaker 2: to tell about our successes, our accomplishments, our big wins 428 00:25:56,040 --> 00:26:00,240 Speaker 2: is our closest friends. It almost feels less important if 429 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:04,480 Speaker 2: our big moments and milestones can't be shit, especially considering 430 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,399 Speaker 2: the bond we spoke so highly about, and when you 431 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:10,520 Speaker 2: are a single woman, right It's like you don't have 432 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,720 Speaker 2: that person that you're in a relationship with to immediately 433 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:18,600 Speaker 2: tell everything too. That role is taken on by your friendships. 434 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:22,679 Speaker 2: Some people are inherently more insecure about their worth, regardless 435 00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:25,320 Speaker 2: of gender. So do I think that women are just 436 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:28,280 Speaker 2: naturally poised to undermine each other and that's what makes 437 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:31,919 Speaker 2: our friendship so hard? No, I don't. I think that 438 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,800 Speaker 2: we actually need to start talking about the impact of 439 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:39,800 Speaker 2: mail attention as part of this equation as well. Men 440 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:42,480 Speaker 2: hold a lot of power, and yes I mean power 441 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:45,960 Speaker 2: in a business success career sense, but also in a 442 00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:50,360 Speaker 2: sexual sense. Those two things, can you know, also come 443 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:52,359 Speaker 2: together as well in some of the worst ways. But 444 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:55,760 Speaker 2: what is known is that when men like us, that 445 00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:58,679 Speaker 2: can help us get ahead, and we are socialized to 446 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:03,240 Speaker 2: desire patriarchal validation. If a man thinks you're funny, all 447 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:06,800 Speaker 2: good looking, or interesting, you feel like you're in the 448 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:09,720 Speaker 2: in group, and once you're in that in group, you 449 00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:12,879 Speaker 2: feel protected. Maybe that in group is in the workplace, 450 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:15,480 Speaker 2: where once the guys think you're one of them, you 451 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:19,480 Speaker 2: get included in more networking opportunities, you see more chill 452 00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:21,960 Speaker 2: and easy going. You're one of the boys. You're less 453 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:25,040 Speaker 2: likely to be picked on or told that you're too difficult. 454 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,080 Speaker 2: It also happens when it comes to romance. You know, 455 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:31,600 Speaker 2: finding a partner or a boyfriend can make us feel 456 00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:34,879 Speaker 2: more secure in our future and protect us from the 457 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:38,080 Speaker 2: stigma of being single as a woman in her thirties, 458 00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:42,520 Speaker 2: As a woman in her forties who society really requires 459 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:44,720 Speaker 2: to be coupled and married and to be a mother, 460 00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:49,159 Speaker 2: that naturally pits us against each other for male attention 461 00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:53,639 Speaker 2: and approval, and that approval feels more special than female 462 00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:59,160 Speaker 2: validation because of how the power is dispersed. It's why 463 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:02,719 Speaker 2: in two thousand and nineteen study, these authors suggested that 464 00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:07,240 Speaker 2: women's stereotypically gossip more about other women as a way 465 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:10,280 Speaker 2: of decreasing the value and standing of a female rival 466 00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:14,560 Speaker 2: who is competing for that desired male attention. It's where 467 00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:18,119 Speaker 2: slut shaming by other women also comes in, putting another 468 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:21,760 Speaker 2: woman down by suggesting that she's less pure, less loyal, 469 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:24,920 Speaker 2: less honest, less whatever, not as good as us because 470 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:27,960 Speaker 2: she sleeps around, but maybe also feeling jealous of the 471 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:31,719 Speaker 2: fact that her being a so called slut means that 472 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:34,880 Speaker 2: men must like her. You can kind of see how complex. 473 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 2: This s gets I hope that you kind of see 474 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,120 Speaker 2: where I'm coming from. But at the end of the day, 475 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:44,520 Speaker 2: this vying for male acceptance and recognition makes female friendships 476 00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:48,240 Speaker 2: hard because we are once again competing for something that 477 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:53,320 Speaker 2: will give us power, reassurance, safety, opportunity, maybe even love 478 00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:56,080 Speaker 2: that we feel like we can't all get at the 479 00:28:56,120 --> 00:29:00,640 Speaker 2: same time. This actually has a name, especially when it 480 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:04,360 Speaker 2: comes to women who were attracted to men. It's called 481 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:10,360 Speaker 2: female intrasexual competition, and I would really really recommend looking 482 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:13,560 Speaker 2: this up. Let's hear from a listener about this. I 483 00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:15,760 Speaker 2: hate to admit that a boy came between me and 484 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:18,560 Speaker 2: my best friend because it feels so cliche, like women 485 00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:21,880 Speaker 2: only care about men over their friends, but it's what happened. 486 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:26,200 Speaker 2: I started a new job and this really nice guy, charming, sweet, 487 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:30,600 Speaker 2: attractive was working with me, and through drinking late nights 488 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 2: at the office, we became friends. I confided in my 489 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:36,160 Speaker 2: best friend, who I'd known for five years, that I 490 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:38,200 Speaker 2: really wanted more and I thought that we had a 491 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:41,320 Speaker 2: future together, and she told me to invite him to 492 00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:45,480 Speaker 2: my house party to hang out outside the office. Long 493 00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:48,800 Speaker 2: story short, he came, and I was so nervous but 494 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:51,960 Speaker 2: pretty quickly she spent the rest of the night flirting 495 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,080 Speaker 2: with him. By the end of the night, they were 496 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:56,920 Speaker 2: making out in the corner. The trust between us was 497 00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:00,640 Speaker 2: ruined at that moment, and I was devastated. Flash forward 498 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:03,120 Speaker 2: two years later, they are dating and I haven't spoken 499 00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:05,840 Speaker 2: to either of them in over a year. I really 500 00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:08,160 Speaker 2: miss our friendship and wish that we haven't lost it 501 00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:11,280 Speaker 2: over some silly boy. You know, that example in that 502 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:15,160 Speaker 2: story is so rough, but I think is also kind 503 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:18,960 Speaker 2: of the perfect example of what I mean when I 504 00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:24,400 Speaker 2: say that vying for male attention creates competition, and that 505 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:28,800 Speaker 2: competition erods the trust that is so innate and beautiful 506 00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:33,920 Speaker 2: in female friendship. The emotional environment created by all that, 507 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:38,160 Speaker 2: the intensity, the comparison, the competition, It becomes so heightened 508 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:41,160 Speaker 2: that it can be hard not to slip into quite 509 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:45,840 Speaker 2: an unhealthy cycle in our female friendships of sometimes needing distance, 510 00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:49,520 Speaker 2: then feeling guilty for needing distance, pulling them even closer, 511 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:53,480 Speaker 2: feeling overwhelmed or confused, which ends up having the same 512 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:57,040 Speaker 2: and you know, we end up seeing a fizzle or 513 00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:02,280 Speaker 2: seeing a friendship breakup. Now this does special attention. Female 514 00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:06,520 Speaker 2: friendship breakups. These kind of situations have undoubtedly hurt me 515 00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:10,480 Speaker 2: more than some romantic breakups because you kind of expect 516 00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:12,960 Speaker 2: men to let you down. And I'm really sorry to 517 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,960 Speaker 2: any men listening, but that was my experience with a 518 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:19,920 Speaker 2: lot of my exes. I was never totally surprised when 519 00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:24,200 Speaker 2: it ended up going wrong. Every romantic relationship, relationship has 520 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:26,320 Speaker 2: a potential expiration date. 521 00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:27,320 Speaker 1: You always you. 522 00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:29,680 Speaker 2: Know at the back of your mind at times, think 523 00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:32,640 Speaker 2: you know what happens if we break up. I don't 524 00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:36,920 Speaker 2: think we have that same pessimistic attitude towards friendship, or 525 00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:39,920 Speaker 2: at least I didn't or I don't. It feels much 526 00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:42,520 Speaker 2: more long lasting. So when it comes to an end, 527 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:46,880 Speaker 2: it can be devastating because it's unexpected. You never predicted it, 528 00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:50,080 Speaker 2: you never prepared for it. I'm going to give you 529 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:52,320 Speaker 2: guys a bit of my own story. Now. I've been 530 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:55,920 Speaker 2: relying too heavily on your contributions. But I had this 531 00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:58,440 Speaker 2: best friend when I was in university. We lived together 532 00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:01,880 Speaker 2: for all four years. She was like the I think 533 00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:04,400 Speaker 2: she was the only person to speak at my twenty first. 534 00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:09,040 Speaker 2: We were so close, and then one day she quite 535 00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:12,920 Speaker 2: literally moved cities and never spoke to me again or 536 00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:16,240 Speaker 2: really anyone from that time in our lives just packed 537 00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:20,840 Speaker 2: up and left, and it was devastating. And three years on, 538 00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:24,920 Speaker 2: I still have dreams about her. I still think about her, 539 00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:28,720 Speaker 2: you know, at least once a week. Funnily enough, we 540 00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:31,200 Speaker 2: now live in the same city and actually in the 541 00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:35,120 Speaker 2: same suburb, so I see her quite a bit. And 542 00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:37,520 Speaker 2: I saw her about a month ago and had this 543 00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:40,440 Speaker 2: moment where I just kind of watched her from Afar 544 00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:44,880 Speaker 2: with her boyfriend and felt that same, really deep sting 545 00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:47,200 Speaker 2: in my chest all over again, you know, like you 546 00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:50,880 Speaker 2: were going to be my kid's godmother for a while. 547 00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,000 Speaker 2: You know, this person knew more about me than anyone. 548 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:56,840 Speaker 2: She was the person I went to cry to who 549 00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:59,560 Speaker 2: I think I loved more than anyone else. I don't 550 00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:03,040 Speaker 2: think any my exes really knew me that way, and 551 00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:06,240 Speaker 2: you just really miss them, You really miss the potential 552 00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:08,920 Speaker 2: of who this person was going to be. Of course, 553 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,680 Speaker 2: we know from the psychology around breakups, because this is 554 00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:14,440 Speaker 2: a breakup, that what we're feeling is a unique kind 555 00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:17,640 Speaker 2: of pain. You're in a social pain. The grief associated 556 00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:20,480 Speaker 2: with losing a valued social connection like a best friend 557 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:23,959 Speaker 2: is processed in the same area of our brain that 558 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:29,040 Speaker 2: processes when you bang your toe or when you accidentally 559 00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:33,360 Speaker 2: cut your finger while cooking. Specifically, that pain, the social pain, 560 00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:37,080 Speaker 2: and the real pain, is processed by the somata sensory 561 00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:42,240 Speaker 2: cortex or the dorsal posterior insular. What that basically means 562 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:48,080 Speaker 2: is that this loss, this emotional social loss, often has 563 00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:54,120 Speaker 2: a very tangible sensorary component that we feel. Friendship breakups 564 00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:58,360 Speaker 2: also threatening and really calm core parts of our social identity, 565 00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:01,000 Speaker 2: as in, you know I know who I am because 566 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:03,760 Speaker 2: you are my friend. I am your friend, you are mine, 567 00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:05,800 Speaker 2: you love me, I'm a good friend to you, I 568 00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:09,640 Speaker 2: feel seen by you. A lot of our identity sometimes 569 00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:12,600 Speaker 2: does come from those relationships with other people and who 570 00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:16,280 Speaker 2: we are in relation to them. But when that connection 571 00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:20,120 Speaker 2: is abruptly interrupted or severed, it can leave us feeling 572 00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:24,760 Speaker 2: really lost and confused and rethinking not just our values 573 00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:28,480 Speaker 2: or our sense of self, but also like did I 574 00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:32,440 Speaker 2: deserve this? Am I actually a bad person? Who do 575 00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:36,280 Speaker 2: I share things with? Who else knows me this way? 576 00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:41,360 Speaker 2: It's very isolating on all fronts, and it's very devastating, 577 00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:44,680 Speaker 2: to say the least. So how do we prevent this? Obviously, 578 00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:47,560 Speaker 2: I think not all friendships are meant to last. Their 579 00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:50,279 Speaker 2: time has come. Sometimes you've outgrown each other and it's 580 00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:53,759 Speaker 2: a natural separation. But despite you know, maybe some of 581 00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:57,120 Speaker 2: the negativity around female friendships that we have highlighted today, 582 00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:04,040 Speaker 2: they are deeply, deeply important and intimate and vulnerable, and 583 00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:08,280 Speaker 2: they do sometimes take the place of family or of partners. 584 00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:11,759 Speaker 2: It's like the quote that your best friend you know, 585 00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:13,719 Speaker 2: will always be at your wedding, but your boyfriend or 586 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:17,400 Speaker 2: your girlfriend might not be. Like they're meant to outlast 587 00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:19,920 Speaker 2: a whole lot of other relationships that we have. I 588 00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:23,359 Speaker 2: think it's just nice to have someone who has seen 589 00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:26,440 Speaker 2: you at every stage and every age, and you know 590 00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:29,439 Speaker 2: that you've been lucky enough to develop in parallel with. 591 00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:33,680 Speaker 2: So let's talk about some tips for maintaining those female 592 00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:37,279 Speaker 2: friendships even when things get a little bit difficult. So 593 00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:41,680 Speaker 2: tip number one, communicate just as much about your frustrations 594 00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:45,360 Speaker 2: as you do about anything else. I have this saying 595 00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:48,239 Speaker 2: that someone's only a true and long lasting friend when 596 00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:51,240 Speaker 2: you've survived your first argument, your first fight, your first picker, 597 00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:54,239 Speaker 2: Because I believe that that is a huge sign if 598 00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:56,680 Speaker 2: you can get through that, if you have spoken about it, 599 00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:59,600 Speaker 2: that you love and respect each other enough to do 600 00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:02,560 Speaker 2: the uncomfortable thing for both of you and for the 601 00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:05,879 Speaker 2: sake of the relationship. If you feel like your friend 602 00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:09,360 Speaker 2: is distant, if you're feeling like they're jealous, they're prioritizing 603 00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:13,920 Speaker 2: other people over you, maybe it's become one sided. Say something. 604 00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:17,319 Speaker 2: It feels awkward, and sometimes I do think we shy 605 00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:19,200 Speaker 2: away from that because we think that it will end 606 00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:22,720 Speaker 2: the relationship. But at that point, if you are harboring 607 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:29,440 Speaker 2: all these really deeply seated fears, anxieties, frustrations, the relationship 608 00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:32,719 Speaker 2: is doomed anyway because you're going to be overwhelmed by 609 00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:36,160 Speaker 2: the resentment and bitterness that will build up. So you 610 00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:38,640 Speaker 2: kind of have one of two options. Let the relationship 611 00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:41,279 Speaker 2: die in silence, or kind of fight for it. It 612 00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:44,000 Speaker 2: doesn't even need to be a fight, just a moment 613 00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:48,680 Speaker 2: of honesty where you apologize, you open up, you accept responsibility, 614 00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:51,719 Speaker 2: you admit, you cry, whatever it is you need to do. 615 00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:54,840 Speaker 2: I think that that is a really important mark of 616 00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:57,160 Speaker 2: a good friendship is if you're able to do those 617 00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:00,919 Speaker 2: things together. Secondly, just because they're doing a similar thing 618 00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:04,239 Speaker 2: as you, whether that's at school, in the workplace, in 619 00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:07,440 Speaker 2: your careers, in general, it doesn't mean that their competition. 620 00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:11,799 Speaker 2: Actually they can be your inspiration instead a sign that 621 00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:14,480 Speaker 2: you can and are doing it too, and that you can. 622 00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:17,279 Speaker 2: You know, go to each other for advice, go to 623 00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:21,920 Speaker 2: each other for feedback. When you find yourself comparing, remember 624 00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:25,640 Speaker 2: that everyone can win, and that success is always going 625 00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:29,759 Speaker 2: to look different on different people. And also, there is 626 00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:32,880 Speaker 2: no point getting everything you want if you don't have 627 00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:36,480 Speaker 2: true people to share it with, and that includes these friends. 628 00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:39,239 Speaker 2: I get the inclination to sometimes see them as competition, 629 00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:43,360 Speaker 2: especially because of how hardwired our brains are by patriarchy, 630 00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:46,920 Speaker 2: by so many other things. But please fight against that urge. 631 00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:50,160 Speaker 2: Speak their praises when they're not around. Be outwards and 632 00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:53,799 Speaker 2: loud about your admiration for them. And I think that 633 00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:58,920 Speaker 2: that outwardness and that loudness, and that vibrant approval of like, yes, 634 00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:01,839 Speaker 2: my best friend is the sh she is cool. Even 635 00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:03,680 Speaker 2: if we are in the same industry, even if we 636 00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:06,680 Speaker 2: are doing the same thing like we are, we do 637 00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:11,160 Speaker 2: this together, not against each other. Being very like I said, 638 00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:14,839 Speaker 2: loud about that kind of scares away the insecurity, and 639 00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:17,120 Speaker 2: it scares away the people who want to come to 640 00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:22,839 Speaker 2: you and implant that competition in your friendship. Thirdly, let 641 00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:26,680 Speaker 2: the friendship change. I saw this amazing perspective around the 642 00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:31,520 Speaker 2: difference between friendship and romantic relationships. Relationships have these defined 643 00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,880 Speaker 2: stages of commitment. You know, you move in together, you 644 00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:38,480 Speaker 2: get engaged, to get married, you might have kids. Friendships, 645 00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:41,719 Speaker 2: on the other hand, don't have those same obvious milestones. 646 00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:46,400 Speaker 2: Because of this, there is more room for transience inconsistency. 647 00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:48,920 Speaker 2: You can also have more than one friend in your 648 00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:51,280 Speaker 2: life in a way that you know, it's not typical 649 00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:55,440 Speaker 2: to have more than one partner. So it's kind of 650 00:38:55,480 --> 00:39:00,560 Speaker 2: like our romantic relationships have this growth trajectory, and our 651 00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:03,799 Speaker 2: friendships don't have the same same kind of path, and 652 00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:06,600 Speaker 2: so you have to take a step back sometimes and 653 00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:10,880 Speaker 2: just let them change as and develop as as they 654 00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:14,359 Speaker 2: naturally would. Don't get too panicked by the times when 655 00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:17,040 Speaker 2: one of you is more distant or busy. Let the 656 00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:19,759 Speaker 2: friendship fade for a little bit, when someone moves or 657 00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:23,799 Speaker 2: someone is traveling. I just think that you need to 658 00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:27,120 Speaker 2: let the person you love, your female friend, your friend 659 00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:32,839 Speaker 2: of any gender, let them, you know, change alongside you, 660 00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:38,640 Speaker 2: and let yourself shift your expectations for the chapter that 661 00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:40,960 Speaker 2: you're in rather than where you feel you need to 662 00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:45,600 Speaker 2: be really base your friendship on the season and what's 663 00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:48,680 Speaker 2: going on around you. And I think that that allows 664 00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:53,200 Speaker 2: it to have a more healthier, healthier life, I guess. 665 00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:55,840 Speaker 2: I guess it allows it to survive. You know, with 666 00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:58,759 Speaker 2: every long friendship, there are years and times that you're 667 00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:02,120 Speaker 2: closer periods where there is a bit more distance, so 668 00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:05,800 Speaker 2: you just have to lean in. Finally, this might sound strange, 669 00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:09,200 Speaker 2: but do more than just talk, do activities as well. 670 00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:12,279 Speaker 2: I feel like men are always doing things with each other. 671 00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:15,640 Speaker 2: They always have like activity based hangouts, like they're doing 672 00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:19,040 Speaker 2: sport or video games or whatever, and we can learn 673 00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:22,440 Speaker 2: from that. Talking about our feelings catching up is great, 674 00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:26,719 Speaker 2: but so as making memories beyond our emotions. It's not 675 00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:29,080 Speaker 2: me saying it'd be less feeling don't talk about that. 676 00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:32,040 Speaker 2: But I think that we also need to have something 677 00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:35,240 Speaker 2: else to base our friendship on rather than just talking 678 00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:38,239 Speaker 2: about what's going on. I was on a girls trip 679 00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:41,120 Speaker 2: with one of my best friends recently, and we hadn't 680 00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:43,640 Speaker 2: seen each other in over a year, and we booked 681 00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:45,839 Speaker 2: an airbnb, so it was just the two of us 682 00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:50,839 Speaker 2: and we spent three days walking around this beautiful neighborhood, 683 00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:55,280 Speaker 2: coming back to our space, cooking meals together, going out, 684 00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:59,040 Speaker 2: and it just felt special being able to actively live 685 00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:02,239 Speaker 2: my life with her rather than just talk about it. 686 00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:04,719 Speaker 2: And it's something that I want to bring to the 687 00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:07,319 Speaker 2: friends that I see in my everyday rather than just 688 00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:10,280 Speaker 2: once a year. I want to finish on a positive 689 00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:14,720 Speaker 2: note with one more listener story that I think sums 690 00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:18,160 Speaker 2: everything up perfectly for me and is such a testament 691 00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:24,719 Speaker 2: to how beautiful and meaningful and important female friendships are 692 00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:29,200 Speaker 2: despite the downsides. So let's hear from this final listener. 693 00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:33,200 Speaker 2: I can count my genuine female friends. On one hand, 694 00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:35,880 Speaker 2: I don't need a whole lot of friends at the 695 00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:38,640 Speaker 2: age of thirty four, and with some life experience under 696 00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:44,000 Speaker 2: your belt, you realize that quality always trumps quantity. My 697 00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:46,680 Speaker 2: girlfriends now are women who I know I can trust 698 00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:49,840 Speaker 2: and rely on for anything, and vice versa. There is 699 00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:53,320 Speaker 2: never any pressure, never any drama. If there is something 700 00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:56,160 Speaker 2: bugging us about one another, we are open enough to 701 00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:59,840 Speaker 2: give and receive feedback in a respectful and constructive manner, 702 00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:03,080 Speaker 2: not to tear each other down. No longer do I 703 00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:06,280 Speaker 2: have time for people who leave me feeling anxious, drained, 704 00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:10,440 Speaker 2: annoyed or pessimistic. Not everyone is for you, and you 705 00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:13,680 Speaker 2: won't be everyone's cup of tea either, and that's okay. 706 00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:16,920 Speaker 2: How perfect is that? And I just loved that it 707 00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:19,000 Speaker 2: came from someone who was no longer in their twenties, 708 00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:21,680 Speaker 2: who's kind of like out of the woods, out of 709 00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:24,520 Speaker 2: the chaos of this decade, because we have a lot 710 00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:27,319 Speaker 2: to learn from that example. We have so much to 711 00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:30,280 Speaker 2: learn from the fact that maybe the older we get, 712 00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:34,320 Speaker 2: the more the drama kind of doesn't fit our lives anymore. 713 00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:38,600 Speaker 2: The meanness, the indirectness, it just doesn't have a place. 714 00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:41,759 Speaker 2: And you've got to really find your people who you 715 00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:45,080 Speaker 2: can openly communicate with, you can have hard conversations with 716 00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:49,160 Speaker 2: who make life easier and lighter rather than harder. So 717 00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:51,640 Speaker 2: thank you so much for listening to this episode. I 718 00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:54,680 Speaker 2: hope that you learn something about your female friendships, about 719 00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:58,640 Speaker 2: why they might be difficult, sometimes for all the best reasons, 720 00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:01,879 Speaker 2: not for the bad reasons, for the hard reasons. It's 721 00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:05,000 Speaker 2: just because they are so vulnerable and expressive, and sometimes 722 00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:09,080 Speaker 2: that just makes everything everything else more intense as well. 723 00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:12,320 Speaker 2: If there is someone who you think would enjoy this episode, 724 00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:15,800 Speaker 2: maybe you're female bestie maybe one of your girlfriends. Feel 725 00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:18,080 Speaker 2: free to share it with them. Share a link. It 726 00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:21,080 Speaker 2: helps us show grow, helps us reach new people. Make 727 00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:23,640 Speaker 2: sure that you are following along for future episodes, and 728 00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:26,040 Speaker 2: that you leave a five star review if you feel 729 00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:29,960 Speaker 2: cool to do so on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you're listening, 730 00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:32,400 Speaker 2: and big thank you for making it this far. If 731 00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:35,520 Speaker 2: you did, I really appreciate you sticking around, and I 732 00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:39,680 Speaker 2: appreciate you listening to this episode and hopefully enjoying it. 733 00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:44,120 Speaker 2: As always, until next time, stay safe, stay kind, and 734 00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:47,080 Speaker 2: please be gentle with yourself. We will talk soon