Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2: This is Wall Street Week. I'm David Weston bringing you
Speaker 2: stories of capitalism. If you can think it, you can
Speaker 2: code it. Generatve AI brings the brave new world of
Speaker 2: vibe coding to a project near you. Plus, we're going
Speaker 2: to need a lot more power to run all that
Speaker 2: new vibe coding, and it turns out that we may
Speaker 2: get some of it from the ground under your feet
Speaker 2: and Las Vegas. It's not just for gambling anymore. But
Speaker 2: we start with the FED, which held its monetary policy
Speaker 2: meetings this week even as it waits for its new
Speaker 2: chair to be confirmed by the Senate. Glenn Hubbard was
Speaker 2: the head of President George W. Bush's National out of
Speaker 2: Council and then went on to run the Columbia Business School,
Speaker 2: where he is now on the faculty. So, Glenn, we
Speaker 2: had the Federal Open Market Committee meeting and we heard
Speaker 2: from Chair Pal they basically didn't do anything. Did they
Speaker 2: have a choice?
Speaker 3: No, But I think they did do a few things.
Speaker 3: So they certainly didn't change the funds rate. I don't
Speaker 3: think anybody expected that, or at least reasonably. The battle,
Speaker 3: of course, the descents that happened. Were over the FED statement,
Speaker 3: or at least what people perceive the FED statement to be.
Speaker 3: Is there an easing bias? Is there a tightening bias?
Speaker 3: I think it's fair to say, under the hood, members
Speaker 3: of the FOMC are conflicted. Some view that the next
Speaker 3: move is going to have to be flat for an
Speaker 3: extended period, possibly even up. Others like Governor Myron have
Speaker 3: a different sign. So that's really what happened.
Speaker 2: One of the things I couldn't figure out is the
Speaker 2: easing bias language that they descended from the three members.
Speaker 2: I looked at the same of carefully. I didn't find
Speaker 2: those words in there.
Speaker 3: No, I don't think it's there in black and white.
Speaker 3: I think probably this is a reading the room kind
Speaker 3: of observation of people going on record that we really
Speaker 3: are uncomfortable with a view that at the next FOMC
Speaker 3: meeting or maybe even the meeting after that, that a
Speaker 3: cut is forthcoming.
Speaker 2: They did say in the statement that there was extreme
Speaker 2: uncertainty coming out of the Middle East because of the
Speaker 2: Iran war. Is that what is driving the concern about
Speaker 2: rates or was there a pre existing issue with inflation?
Speaker 3: I would have to give you the classic economist answer
Speaker 3: yes and no. So yes, the uncertainty is a problem.
Speaker 3: Oil prices are high, the US economy is less energy intensive,
Speaker 3: but it will still raise at least headline inflation. Let's
Speaker 3: remember inflation was stock well above the fed's target before
Speaker 3: February twenty eighth, So Iran adds to the problems the
Speaker 3: FED faces, but it's not really the core problem. I
Speaker 3: think what's vexing the FED is why it was more
Speaker 3: difficult to get inflation down before Iran. But yes, the
Speaker 3: uncertainty matters.
Speaker 2: What about inflation expectations because I've seen some indications now
Speaker 2: they may be rising in the United States and even
Speaker 2: in Europe.
Speaker 3: So far, I think they're relatively anchored. That's a good
Speaker 3: news for the FED, and that's far more important for
Speaker 3: the FED than whatever the inflation number by whatever measure
Speaker 3: they look at is today. But I think the risk
Speaker 3: is if the war continues and prices remain elevated, and
Speaker 3: of course we still have tariffs working their way through
Speaker 3: the system. Even if the ultimate effect is to stabilize,
Speaker 3: that's going to be an inflation problem and that could
Speaker 3: unhinge expectations.
Speaker 2: So what does this mean for the new chair coming
Speaker 2: in Kevin.
Speaker 4: Walsh good luck.
Speaker 3: I mean Kevin Walsh is actually well suited for this moment.
Speaker 3: He has outstanding small py political skills, consensus building skills.
Speaker 3: He's very smart, he knows these issues. I think his
Speaker 3: challenge is going to be looking at the men and
Speaker 3: women around the table, whether it's the governors or the FMC,
Speaker 3: and figuring out how to bring them together. That's going
Speaker 3: to require two things. His skills, which as I said,
Speaker 3: he has, but another's the theory of the case. I mean,
Speaker 3: how do you talk about the economy. I think that'll
Speaker 3: have to be job one for our new chair.
Speaker 2: Some are interpreting that three person descent as putting a
Speaker 2: marker down really almost against President Trump. With President Trump's
Speaker 2: pressing for lower rates, don't go too far, too fast.
Speaker 3: I'm not sure that that's true. I mean, it is
Speaker 3: true President Trump would prefer lower rates. He certainly has
Speaker 3: told us all that. I think it's more a matter
Speaker 3: of a sincere difference of opinion and policy. And given
Speaker 3: where we are right now, with the labor market softening
Speaker 3: a little yet we have a robust economy, inflation is stuck.
Speaker 3: You can see why people are wondering, is the glass
Speaker 3: half full or half empty. When you have uncertainty, more
Speaker 3: often than not, watching and waiting until you get more
Speaker 3: information is the right answer, and I think it is here.
Speaker 2: Is it a symmetric risk right now as you look
Speaker 2: at it, or is there a real risk of stagflation
Speaker 2: where you actually could hurt growth and still have inflation.
Speaker 3: Well, there's certainly a risk of stagflation, but I would
Speaker 3: be more worried about inflation at the moment. The underlying
Speaker 3: economy is very good and the GDP numbers we got
Speaker 3: for the first quarter are reassuring still about the pace
Speaker 3: of AI investment and about final sales, even though the
Speaker 3: headline print is a little below expectations.
Speaker 2: Kevin worsh comes in saying that he thinks there is
Speaker 2: a room for rate cuts because of AI.
Speaker 5: How does that work?
Speaker 3: Well, the story, if it's correct, is what I would
Speaker 3: come more of a long run story. So AI in
Speaker 3: the long run, certainly, as the potential to be disinflationary
Speaker 3: reduces the costs, particularly in service producing sectors. Think about
Speaker 3: the costs of producing what lawyers do, or accountants do,
Speaker 3: or engineers or dare I say, economists, that could all
Speaker 3: be disinflationary. The problem is that's not today, it's not tomorrow,
Speaker 3: and it may not even be a year or two
Speaker 3: from now. The immediate effect of AI is the aggregate
Speaker 3: demand effect of building data centers. The investment numbers that
Speaker 3: showed up so robust in GDP all a SQL that raises,
Speaker 3: not lowers the real interest rate, and inflation is stuck.
Speaker 3: So I think incoming chair Worsh's story makes sense as
Speaker 3: a potential long run hypothesis. I don't think it could
Speaker 3: be a theory of the case for cutting rates now.
Speaker 3: To cut rates now, you'd have to have a view
Speaker 3: that the economy's weakening is such that that tramps small
Speaker 3: teeth the inflationary pressures.
Speaker 2: There are other parts of the fed's job besides just rates.
Speaker 2: What do we expect from Kevin Warsh's chair in the
Speaker 2: other parts.
Speaker 3: Well, I think he's signaled that he wants to take
Speaker 3: a look at least in a couple of areas. One
Speaker 3: is the size of the Fed's balance sheet, which of
Speaker 3: course bloomed enormously since the global financial crisis. That's not
Speaker 3: really as simple as saying do I want a big
Speaker 3: balance sheet or a small balance sheet? Because the FED
Speaker 3: has proven to be the market maker of last resort
Speaker 3: in the treasury market multiple times, and the treasury market
Speaker 3: is the market for the world's safe asset. Regulation perhaps
Speaker 3: unwittingly made it hard for private market makers to do
Speaker 3: the job they could be doing. So a FED balance
Speaker 3: sheet is pretty important. But I do expect Kevin worsh
Speaker 3: to spend a lot of time there the other's financial regulation,
Speaker 3: especially since the Global financial crisis, the FED got more
Speaker 3: territory in financial regulation, so there may be a look,
Speaker 3: do we have the right rules? Do we have the
Speaker 3: right capital regime? I would expect incoming Chairwash to take
Speaker 3: a hard to take a hard look at that a
Speaker 3: warning though, regulation, unlike monetary policy, is a political subject,
Speaker 3: and so do expect Congress. Do expect the President to,
Speaker 3: with good merits, have political views to balance.
Speaker 2: For the question that's been raised by some other members
Speaker 2: the FED right now is the relationship of the regional
Speaker 2: Fed to the national Fed. Then, in fact, maybe there
Speaker 2: should be more power or authority or responsibility taken into Washington.
Speaker 2: Does that make sense?
Speaker 3: I don't think so. I think the decentralized structure the
Speaker 3: FED is a feature, not a bug. Remember the history
Speaker 3: lesson for the FED is it was done to get
Speaker 3: points of view throughout the nation, where a nation of
Speaker 3: different business sectors and different geographies. That said, there is
Speaker 3: a point that I think regional presidents may be communicating
Speaker 3: too much. In any organization, the top of the organization
Speaker 3: needs to set the tone internally and externally. So having
Speaker 3: a lot of debate inside strikes me as a good thing.
Speaker 3: Doing it out in the press or on television, I'm
Speaker 3: less persuaded that's a good thing.
Speaker 2: There's a good deal to talk about what a chair
Speaker 2: wash will do in terms of, for example, forward guidance
Speaker 2: and even number of news conferences that are held the
Speaker 2: dot plots. How much of that is in the authority
Speaker 2: of the chair? Does that need to be voted on
Speaker 2: by the full fed Well, he.
Speaker 3: Would need to get his colleague support, but I suspect
Speaker 3: he could get it. I count myself as among those
Speaker 3: who wonder what the utility of the dot plot is
Speaker 3: and the excessive communication. There's a continuum, if you will.
Speaker 3: Chair Greenspan was quite opaque. He famously said, you know,
Speaker 3: if you thought you understood me, you must be mistaken.
Speaker 3: To Chair Bernanki, who was extremely transparent, I think probably
Speaker 3: an incoming Chairwash wants to be somewhere in between.
Speaker 4: There.
Speaker 2: One thing that incoming chair worsh will have that has
Speaker 2: not been had for a very long time is a
Speaker 2: former chair sitting in the room at least for some
Speaker 2: period of time. What will that do to that dynamic?
Speaker 5: Do you think?
Speaker 3: I'm not sure it's actually going to do very much.
Speaker 3: I think Chair Powell's current Chair Powell's points of view
Speaker 3: are well known. He said them many times. I expect
Speaker 3: he'll repeat those as a governor, and the time he
Speaker 3: has left, I think he also is somebody who would
Speaker 3: be deferential in the way he would be to a
Speaker 3: new chairs. I don't think it's going to change things
Speaker 3: very much. Whether he leaves is a personal decision, and
Speaker 3: he'll have to make it.
Speaker 6: The independence of the FED.
Speaker 2: We also spoke with former US Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson
Speaker 2: about the challenges facing the next FED chair. Paulson agreed
Speaker 2: that Walsh has a hard road ahead, but that he
Speaker 2: is up to the task.
Speaker 6: Well, you have a chairman of the FED, you want
Speaker 6: someone who understands markets, who is a good community gator,
Speaker 6: has a good understanding of sound economic principles, and I
Speaker 6: think Kevin Walsh meets those tests right, and he's been before,
Speaker 6: he's done it. Now, I think his job becomes more
Speaker 6: difficult because there's independence of the perception of independence. So
Speaker 6: I think how this transition between Jay Paul, who's just
Speaker 6: been a star performer and got great credibility and integrity.
Speaker 6: I think how that transition is handled and how the
Speaker 6: administration deals with it is either going to make Kevin's
Speaker 6: job more difficult or you know, somewhat easier. But Kevin
Speaker 6: won't have an easy job anyway. And I compliment the
Speaker 6: Trump administration. I'm selecting him right.
Speaker 2: Coming up, AI may be coming for a job near you,
Speaker 2: especially if you're a computer programmer. This is a story
Speaker 2: about a double edged sword. At this point, AI is
Speaker 2: promised to do just about everything, but it turns out
Speaker 2: that it's best at creating the very thing that it
Speaker 2: is made of. Code. It was once considered a high
Speaker 2: skill task, but coding is now accessible to just about
Speaker 2: anyone with the help of generative AI. On the one hand,
Speaker 2: this unlocks possibilities for creating a wide range of products
Speaker 2: and businesses that otherwise might never have seen the light
Speaker 2: of day. On the other hand, it's made the future
Speaker 2: less certain for those who write code professionally. Our colleague
Speaker 2: Ed Ludlow brings us the story of what happens when
Speaker 2: we lean in and let AI do the work.
Speaker 7: In Upper Tracts, West Virginia, Jamie Grove owns a boutique
Speaker 7: warehouse helping clients ship out anything from dinosaur bones to
Speaker 7: board games. Last year, he built software that automates shipping
Speaker 7: out packages with help from AI.
Speaker 2: Where's the order at that you're looking at?
Speaker 6: There?
Speaker 8: There's absolutely no way I could have done any of
Speaker 8: this without AI. For the initial run to take some
Speaker 8: spreadsheets that we had that we were working with to
Speaker 8: get an actual workable sample ready to go took me
Speaker 8: less than a day and we were live and we
Speaker 8: were using it right here in the warehouse.
Speaker 7: In Oakland, California. Cynthia Chen wished there was an app
Speaker 7: that collects pictures of different breeds of dogs.
Speaker 9: And then it was when I learned about vibe coding online.
Speaker 9: Is when I thought maybe I should try it myself.
Speaker 9: The first time, you see like this little pop up
Speaker 9: and it says build succeeded, and then you can see
Speaker 9: the app pop up and like it's actually real. That
Speaker 9: was like the sort of magical moment where I was like,
Speaker 9: oh my gosh, this is crazy. I can actually build
Speaker 9: things myself.
Speaker 7: The term vibe coding was coined by Andre Carpathy, a
Speaker 7: founding member of open Ai, to describe a process of
Speaker 7: computer programming akin to having a conversation with a robot.
Speaker 7: Here's what it looks like in practice. Say I want
Speaker 7: to create a website that visualizes and animates a data set.
Speaker 7: I would use a generative AI tool like Claude or
Speaker 7: codex or in this case, Gemini and tell it exactly
Speaker 7: what I want using plain English. AI then writes the
Speaker 7: code for me, and as coding has gotten easier, it's
Speaker 7: led to the creation of more code than ever before.
Speaker 7: Activity on GitHub, the platform used for storing and sharing code,
Speaker 7: has seen a massive increase in activity, surging in early
Speaker 7: twenty twenty five when AI coding pilots became popular. And
Speaker 7: although vibe coding has helped small businesses and hobbyists create
Speaker 7: their own software, it's the professionals who leading the way.
Speaker 10: So what goes on in this building is we have
Speaker 10: a mix of folks working on Google Cloud. At Google,
Speaker 10: when we talk about autonomy and agentic engineering, we have
Speaker 10: systems that allow you to kind of have almost a
Speaker 10: virtual software engineer.
Speaker 7: Hold on, if all these brilliant engineers are using AI
Speaker 7: in this way, what is it that they're doing all
Speaker 7: day long in beautiful buildings like this?
Speaker 10: One excellent question.
Speaker 7: Adilsmani is the director of Google Cloud AI. He oversees
Speaker 7: teams of engineers currently building the next generation of AI
Speaker 7: tools for businesses.
Speaker 10: So, if you are vibe coding, you're pretty much just
Speaker 10: giving into the vibes. You don't necessarily have a clear,
Speaker 10: full idea of your vision. You're just working with the LLM.
Speaker 10: You're trying to get somewhere with it. If you are engineering,
Speaker 10: that's where you have to apply rigor to it. You
Speaker 10: have to have this clear set of requirements you are testing,
Speaker 10: and whether you are a startup or whether you're in
Speaker 10: a big enterprise. Right now, the role of the software
Speaker 10: engineer is going to be evolving to one where you
Speaker 10: are increasingly a little bit more of a manager. You're
Speaker 10: going to have effectively like a virtual team of agents
Speaker 10: that you're responsible for and you have to own the outcomes.
Speaker 10: Doesn't matter how many are responsible the output, You're responsible
Speaker 10: for the output exactly. And so you need to decide
Speaker 10: like how am I evaluating quality? How much time am
Speaker 10: I going to spend evaluating quality? Because there are some
Speaker 10: people who very much enjoy YOLO, like, okay, well the
Speaker 10: agents ran overnight looks good kind of runs, I'm just
Speaker 10: going to deploy it. But if you're building any kind
Speaker 10: of serious software, you still need to have some idea
Speaker 10: of like what is what is the quality bar? What
Speaker 10: are my quality gates? How am I making sure this
Speaker 10: is actually going to meet the needs of my users
Speaker 10: in a consistent way.
Speaker 7: For the engineers at Google's headquarters is here in Sunny Vale, California,
Speaker 7: Osmani says, AI isn't just making their lives easier, it's
Speaker 7: making them better at coding. The extension of that question,
Speaker 7: which we pose largely by investors, is how do we
Speaker 7: measure the productivity gains of that engineer or that team.
Speaker 10: I remember in the earlier days of AI, you know,
Speaker 10: org leaders would look at things like, oh, hey, well,
Speaker 10: how many lines of code are being generator? Which is
Speaker 10: not in any way a good proxy for productivity. But
Speaker 10: these days, I think that people use a mix of
Speaker 10: different kinds of metrics. You try to use qualitative and
Speaker 10: quantitative generally speaking, there's a big productivity boost. In the
Speaker 10: earlier days of AI, would have said, you know, that
Speaker 10: boost is ten to fifteen percent. These days it's anywhere
Speaker 10: from thirty to fifty percent, and I see that number
Speaker 10: only continuing to go up.
Speaker 7: At MIT, Frank Nagel and a team of research has
Speaker 7: surveyed over one hundred and eighty seven thousand software developers
Speaker 7: who are using GitHub co pilot, a generative AI tool
Speaker 7: for coding, and they found that workers are more productive
Speaker 7: because what they spend time on has changed.
Speaker 11: I think one of the big things that we often
Speaker 11: think about with AI is that it's just going to
Speaker 11: enhance productivity, right, It's going to make us faster doing
Speaker 11: whatever it is we do. But that's just really just
Speaker 11: scratching the surface. You have one hundred percent of your
Speaker 11: time that you allocate to work. How did that break
Speaker 11: down along these dimensions of what we called core work,
Speaker 11: actual coding versus more project management type of work. And
Speaker 11: what we found is that when coders started using these
Speaker 11: types of tools, they massively shift the amount of their
Speaker 11: time that they allocate to coding, and they take away
Speaker 11: a whole lot of their allocated time towards from project management,
Speaker 11: and so part of the reason we think that this
Speaker 11: is happening is that if in the old days you
Speaker 11: were writing piece of code A, and that piece of
Speaker 11: code was dependent on some other piece of code B,
Speaker 11: you had to wait for that other person, You had
Speaker 11: to interact with them and make sure that everything worked together,
Speaker 11: whereas now you can just write it all yourself.
Speaker 7: This productivity boost is particularly true for those who are
Speaker 7: writing and deploying brand new code, and especially those with
Speaker 7: no knowledge of code whatsoever, including creatives like Chen.
Speaker 9: This is press Pedals, the new app that I'm working on,
Speaker 9: and here is a press Flower. So I'm going to
Speaker 9: go to the cloud code that I have running, and
Speaker 9: then I'm simply going to describe what I wanted to do.
Speaker 9: I actually tried a whole bunch of tools in the beginning,
Speaker 9: and this was about a year ago, which I think
Speaker 9: is like feels kind of like the stone ages of
Speaker 9: vibe coding. I was able to make the foundations of
Speaker 9: the app in maybe a month, and as like a
Speaker 9: totally non technical person, I was actually able to build
Speaker 9: a full stack app, so there's like front end and
Speaker 9: back end capabilities, and I was able to get it
Speaker 9: out on the App Store, just entirely myself.
Speaker 7: For business owners like Grove, his Vibe coded solution is
Speaker 7: helping his warehouse save on costs.
Speaker 8: We have three main coding solutions here that we've used
Speaker 8: AI for. One is to create batching, which is the
Speaker 8: important part in terms of taking work that are different
Speaker 8: and getting them all together into groups that make it
Speaker 8: easy to pick. And then the other solution that we
Speaker 8: have is inventory tracking. So that's a standard warehouse feature,
Speaker 8: but our clients are all so very different, and so
Speaker 8: trying to force a client into a single inventory tracking
Speaker 8: system is really difficult. So we actually we've used AI
Speaker 8: to build an inventory tracking solution that allows them to
Speaker 8: be themselves basically. So I have a pretty varied background.
Speaker 8: I started out as a programmer a long long time ago.
Speaker 8: But even someone who is a very fast coder could
Speaker 8: not have built all these solutions impossible. If I were
Speaker 8: to do it with a team of programmers, I could
Speaker 8: have five programmers working on this full time and still
Speaker 8: not deliver as many results. If I were to install
Speaker 8: a software system that does everything that we're doing now,
Speaker 8: let's just say without all the customizations and all the flexibility,
Speaker 8: we might be talking about an annual license of anywhere
Speaker 8: between six and ten thousand dollars a year, scaling all
Speaker 8: the way up to maybe thirty to fifty thousand dollars
Speaker 8: a year depending on how much volume we push through
Speaker 8: our warehouse. This doesn't have the flexibility that we would want,
Speaker 8: and it's expensive for a small boutique warehouse.
Speaker 5: That's a big.
Speaker 7: Expense now for about twenty dollars a month. Business owners
Speaker 7: like Growth are building their own software solutions, and whilst
Speaker 7: that's opened up new possibilities, there is a downside. Since
Speaker 7: twenty twenty two, employment for software engineers right out of
Speaker 7: college has fallen by nearly twenty percent. Nagel thinks companies
Speaker 7: are making a big mistake.
Speaker 11: I do think that one of the biggest risks of
Speaker 11: the whole thing is that people are going to get
Speaker 11: too focused on the short term and not think about
Speaker 11: the long term enough. First of all, you don't hire
Speaker 11: any new people who's going to run the company in
Speaker 11: ten to fifteen years. But second of all, our research
Speaker 11: and others has shown that these junior people are actually
Speaker 11: the ones who are able to change their job and
Speaker 11: get the most out of using these tools. And so
Speaker 11: if we're not hiring them at the same rate we
Speaker 11: were before, then we're not going to be able to
Speaker 11: take advantage of that.
Speaker 4: And Chan agrees.
Speaker 9: I feel very strongly that this is not replacing engineers.
Speaker 9: I think the more you use AI to build, the
Speaker 9: more you understand the space and kind of even know
Speaker 9: what you can and can't do. It's like, technically I
Speaker 9: can make it, but an engineer probably could have made
Speaker 9: this in a much shorter timeline and probably with much
Speaker 9: more robust code.
Speaker 11: From the business standpoint, I do think there's this opportunity
Speaker 11: where companies that have been thinking about things like reverse mentoring,
Speaker 11: where the younger folks can help the more experienced folks
Speaker 11: learn how to better use these types of tools, while
Speaker 11: the experienced folks are able to better help the younger
Speaker 11: folks understand how the industry works.
Speaker 7: If AI can write code, then what is the role
Speaker 7: of the software engineer? Osmani says today, it's all about quality.
Speaker 10: If I want to build a robust engineering artifact, something
Speaker 10: that's going to last time, something I can ship to
Speaker 10: hundreds of millions of users or billions of users, there
Speaker 10: are a lot of things that it needs to factor in,
Speaker 10: and so what people and buildings like this are doing
Speaker 10: all day long, are trying to make sure that the
Speaker 10: code is actually meeting that quality bar so that when
Speaker 10: we do ship something to you that happens to be
Speaker 10: using AI behind the scenes, you're actually getting what you want.
Speaker 10: That's the important thing for the users at the end
Speaker 10: of the day, they don't care if a human has
Speaker 10: been aufering it or AI's been aufering it. Does it
Speaker 10: help them get the job done in a reliable way.
Speaker 7: Is vibe coding a term that's therefore used. Is it
Speaker 7: banned with this Absolutely not.
Speaker 10: I think that vibe coating has a lot of value.
Speaker 10: Vibe coating is enabling people to go from idea to
Speaker 10: execution faster than ever, and it has completely changed how
Speaker 10: many teams approach prototyping. You know, so many times in
Speaker 10: the past in Silicon Value and lots of places, if
Speaker 10: you had an idea, you'd go through weeks or months
Speaker 10: of just discussing or debating, hey can we afford to
Speaker 10: build this? Now you can just build it. And I
Speaker 10: think that it has a very concrete place in our
Speaker 10: language now. It's just important that you understand that vibe
Speaker 10: coding a thing does not necessarily mean that you have
Speaker 10: a production ready artifact that's going to be battle hardened.
Speaker 7: In Silicon Valley. The test of AIS progress is true autonomy.
Speaker 7: To start a project in the evening and wake up
Speaker 7: in the morning to code written autonomously by an AI
Speaker 7: agent a dream for senior software developers and perhaps a
Speaker 7: nightmare for entry level computer engineers who would have once
Speaker 7: done that work themselves. But for us non coding mere mortals,
Speaker 7: the moment could be ripe to do what mankind is
Speaker 7: best at building and creating.
Speaker 2: Up next journey to the center of the Earth, or
Speaker 2: at least toward it. Geothermal may be an important part
Speaker 2: of what gets us the energy we need to power
Speaker 2: all that a This is a story about resourcefulness in
Speaker 2: the quest of feed AI data centers. The US is
Speaker 2: looking to get more power from just about everywhere it can,
Speaker 2: from fossil fuels to wind and solar to nuclear. But
Speaker 2: it turns out that an important part of the puzzle
Speaker 2: lies beneath our feet. Our colleague Michael McKee takes us
Speaker 2: into the promising and developing world of geothermal energy.
Speaker 4: This is not a gold mine, but in an age
Speaker 4: of power hungry data centers desperate for energy, it might
Speaker 4: be even better. So what are we looking at here?
Speaker 12: The OLM geothermal power plant in Steamboat where we have
Speaker 12: to generate electricity.
Speaker 4: How much electricity do you produce here?
Speaker 12: In the entire Steamboat area, We've produced between eighty to
Speaker 12: ninety megawoks.
Speaker 4: That's enough to power more than fifty thousand homes a
Speaker 4: small city. Or Matt Technologies is one of America's largest
Speaker 4: geothermal companies, with plants throughout the Southwest, the hotbed of
Speaker 4: the country's geothermal activity. Out the heat exchanger Doron Blaschar
Speaker 4: is the company's chief executive.
Speaker 12: We operate twenty four seven every day, regardless of the sun,
Speaker 12: regardless of the wind, and that's the main benefit that
Speaker 12: you get from geothermal steady twenty four seven electricity.
Speaker 4: Led by the hyperscaling of AI installations, electricity demand in
Speaker 4: the US is projected to grow by as much as
Speaker 4: twenty percent over the next decade. And let's say that
Speaker 4: means the country needs an all of the above approach
Speaker 4: to power generation. And on the list of potential sources,
Speaker 4: geothermal stands out for being a clean source of constant
Speaker 4: or baseload power.
Speaker 13: We need baseload power, and that's the sweet spot that
Speaker 13: the geothermal brings us. You don't have to worry about
Speaker 13: if the sun's not shining, if the wind's not blowing.
Speaker 13: It allows that baseload that every grid needs to operate.
Speaker 4: So far, geothermal is just a small piece of the
Speaker 4: US power generation mix, producing less than one percent of
Speaker 4: total utility scale electricity, but demand and technology are changing
Speaker 4: the outlook.
Speaker 14: Geothermal energy is the heat of the earth, and it's
Speaker 14: been used for millennia. Hot spring systems we're used by
Speaker 14: the cavemen to cook their food.
Speaker 4: Until now, the industry has largely been confined to the
Speaker 4: rare places where hot water and permeable rock come together
Speaker 4: in underground reservoirs like this site outside of Reno, Nevada. Now,
Speaker 4: enhance geothermal systems or egs have the potential to give
Speaker 4: nature and assist Much of the work has been pioneered
Speaker 4: at Utah Forge, a Department of Energy funded field lab.
Speaker 4: Joseph Moore is its principal investigator emeritus.
Speaker 14: The conventional geothermal systems, these are also called hydrothermal systems
Speaker 14: or hot spring systems, have the natural fractures that allow
Speaker 14: water to move through the rock, extract heat, and then
Speaker 14: come to the surface enhance Geothermal systems are not associated
Speaker 14: with hot springs. These are areas where fractures don't extend
Speaker 14: to the surface and are not abundant enough to allow
Speaker 14: water to circulate in the subsurface. We have to make
Speaker 14: the fractures in order for the water to move through them,
Speaker 14: and this can be done almost anywhere in the world
Speaker 14: if we drill deep enough to reach the temperatures that
Speaker 14: we need. Typically these temperatures are in the order of
Speaker 14: four hundred degrees f and higher.
Speaker 4: To do that, EGS companies are turning to the oil
Speaker 4: and gas industry, which increase production by inventing the technique
Speaker 4: of fracking.
Speaker 15: The fracking actually creates that permeability that you need to
Speaker 15: flow the water through the rock in order to harvest
Speaker 15: the heat.
Speaker 4: Cindy Taff is the CEO of Sage Geosystems, a next
Speaker 4: gen geothermal and energy storage company. After spending thirty five
Speaker 4: years at Shell, she is now using her knowledge of
Speaker 4: oil drilling to partner with Ormat.
Speaker 15: We're going to be drilling adjacent to their conventional geothermal
Speaker 15: field and then putting our production, which will be hot water,
Speaker 15: into an existing power plant. And the reason why we're
Speaker 15: excited about that is that it expedites our ability to
Speaker 15: have a commercial project by at least a year and
Speaker 15: a half because we don't have to acquire land, we
Speaker 15: don't have to build a power plant, we don't have
Speaker 15: to have.
Speaker 10: A grid interconnection.
Speaker 15: We're going to be drilling the wells later this year,
Speaker 15: if not early next year, depending on the permitting timeline,
Speaker 15: and we're going to be flipping the switch in twenty
Speaker 15: twenty seven. And so this partnership is really going to
Speaker 15: open up the ability to scale commercially around the world
Speaker 15: because of Ormat's footprint.
Speaker 4: If Sage can provide the hot water, Ormat will use
Speaker 4: it to generate power.
Speaker 12: We sign with them a collaboration agreement basically allowing us
Speaker 12: if that once they're successful, to use the technology and
Speaker 12: build a pop plant and joining forces with Sage, having
Speaker 12: them bring the experience and knowledge from the oil and
Speaker 12: gas industry, combining with the geothermal that we bring. We
Speaker 12: do believe that we get a winning path.
Speaker 4: Now as the technology begins to prove itself, other private
Speaker 4: capital is moving in behind it, with next generation geothermal
Speaker 4: attracting more than one and a half billion dollars since
Speaker 4: twenty twenty one, a.
Speaker 13: Company called called Fervo now has has their drill site
Speaker 13: located very closely to the forge site. They're drafting off
Speaker 13: of that new technology. It's gotten better and faster and
Speaker 13: cheaper already, and so that's how these things are working together.
Speaker 6: Now.
Speaker 13: Fervo has a four hundred megawatt plant that they're building
Speaker 13: right now, which is incredible. The investments are there, and
Speaker 13: so it's going to take less subsidies because these companies
Speaker 13: don't need the subsidies. They just need the power, and
Speaker 13: they need it really quickly.
Speaker 4: In Utah, Governor Spencer Cox wants to make his state
Speaker 4: an energy and business hub, with geothermal an important part
Speaker 4: of that plan.
Speaker 13: We understand the demand for energy right now. It's why
Speaker 13: we in Utah I launched something called Operation giggle Wade
Speaker 13: about two years ago. We know we have to double
Speaker 13: Utah's energy production over the next few years in order
Speaker 13: to compete with the rest of the world and to
Speaker 13: make sure that our citizens have the technological advancements that
Speaker 13: are happening out there and that they have low cost.
Speaker 4: It helps Utah and Nevada that much of the land
Speaker 4: where EGS geothermal can be developed belongs to the US government,
Speaker 4: and the Bureau of Land Management is making more of
Speaker 4: that land available. Demand is running ahead of supply. Average
Speaker 4: leasing prices paid surged almost three hundred percent last year.
Speaker 13: That's one of the things that we're finding out. Look,
Speaker 13: there are a lot of states who give giant subsidies
Speaker 13: a way to attract businesses. We're not like that in
Speaker 13: the state of Utah. We do have some subsidies, like
Speaker 13: every state, but we understand that what people really need
Speaker 13: is speed, and they need assurances that we're not going
Speaker 13: to pull the rug out from under them, that we're
Speaker 13: not changing our regulatory scheme every few months, that it's
Speaker 13: a place where it's easy to do business and deploy capital.
Speaker 4: Geothermal is also politically palatable. At the same time that
Speaker 4: Washington is opening up more land for geothermal development and
Speaker 4: continuing tax credits supporting it, it's pulling back support for
Speaker 4: wind and solar.
Speaker 13: It's one of those rare forms of energy where there's
Speaker 13: no opposition at all.
Speaker 7: The far right is.
Speaker 13: Opposed to is opposed to wind and and some solar.
Speaker 13: The left is opposed to to coal and some nuclear. Finally,
Speaker 13: we have this this energy source that everybody believes in
Speaker 13: that everybody loves. We just didn't have a way to
Speaker 13: produce it at scale in enough places. And and because
Speaker 13: of human ingenuity, because of this abundance mindset that we're
Speaker 13: starting to get as America again, we're getting baseload power
Speaker 13: at scale that prices are coming down because the technology
Speaker 13: is getting easier and cheaper and faster.
Speaker 4: Still, as with any source of power, there are risks
Speaker 4: that come with geothermal energy. Most important concerns over access
Speaker 4: to water and its use td COW and sustainability and
Speaker 4: disruptive technology. Analyst Jeff Osborne covers.
Speaker 16: Or mat geothermal historically is you know, out in the
Speaker 16: middle of the desert, typically in vast expanses of land
Speaker 16: and not the most accessible for water. A big risk
Speaker 16: for investors to monitor is where's the water going to
Speaker 16: come from? And if we need an additional water source,
Speaker 16: is that available as a backup plan, and what's the
Speaker 16: cost of that, and what's the political ramifications as it
Speaker 16: relates to future permitting approvals and so as we move
Speaker 16: into new geographies that maybe are less familiar with geothermal thinking,
Speaker 16: like a state like Texas that the water availability in
Speaker 16: West Texas where some of these data centers are coming
Speaker 16: in is certainly going to be an issue, and so
Speaker 16: that's where learning comes in from some of these initial
Speaker 16: projects that are being done by the likes of Fervo
Speaker 16: and what ore Metal have with the SAGE and swimmers
Speaker 16: A partnerships, they'll be able to take some of that
Speaker 16: data and then hopefully convince a investors, but be both
Speaker 16: local and state level politicians that this is something that
Speaker 16: should be approved to move forward with, typically things around
Speaker 16: water and grid in our connection or two of the
Speaker 16: the key punch list items that investors are going to
Speaker 16: want to understand.
Speaker 4: When does it start producing a profit for investors.
Speaker 15: Once it starts, we can start scaling, which actually is
Speaker 15: very soon after this first commercial pilot. I would say
Speaker 15: we can scale in the next two or three years
Speaker 15: to four hundred and five hundred megawatts. That's when the
Speaker 15: returns will really come for investors because as you scale,
Speaker 15: of course, you can drive cost down because of the
Speaker 15: efficiencies of during scaling. We have a term sheet with
Speaker 15: Meta for one hundred and fifty megawatts for one of
Speaker 15: their data centers. They're already in need for more power
Speaker 15: at that data center because some of the solar production
Speaker 15: has dropped out and so we've got an agreement with them.
Speaker 15: We're also working with the Department of War and they're
Speaker 15: very interested in behind the fence power that's easily defendable,
Speaker 15: and because a lot of our equipment is below ground
Speaker 15: and it doesn't have a big surface footprint, it will
Speaker 15: help to solve the supply demand mismatch that you currently
Speaker 15: see in the power markets. Being base load, there's a
Speaker 15: huge demand. Geothermal is just a huge untapped resource.
Speaker 4: Next generation systems could be a game changer in the
Speaker 4: renewable energy industry, especially if everybody is on board.
Speaker 13: Good news is that Democrats support this now. So this
Speaker 13: used to be just a partisan issue. Was just Republicans
Speaker 13: who cared about this. Now as a bipartisan issue, Members
Speaker 13: of Congress from both parties are pushing towards this. This
Speaker 13: is a technology that is bringing us all back to
Speaker 13: the table, bringing us all together, bringing investment at every level.
Speaker 13: And I think the future is bright for our country.
Speaker 2: Coming up playing the odds, whether it's in a casino
Speaker 2: or in what's next to the casino. Las Vegas is
Speaker 2: reinventing itself yet again.
Speaker 1: Vegas as a whole is extremely elastic. Vegas isn't going anywhere.
Speaker 2: This is a story about taking a chance, having a
Speaker 2: shot at wealth and success, something at the heart of
Speaker 2: what many considered the American dream, and something built into
Speaker 2: the very foundation of Las Vegas, Sin City, which for
Speaker 2: over a century has drawn visitors from all walks of life.
Speaker 5: What brings me to Vegas?
Speaker 2: Well, my husband and I we're married here. We're here
Speaker 2: on a girl's parkature.
Speaker 16: We came here to party.
Speaker 6: We partied.
Speaker 13: You see, we've got pirates coming from all around the world.
Speaker 2: Beneath the bright lights and the constant buzz of the strip,
Speaker 2: the city itself is taking a chance at reinvention as
Speaker 2: signs of slow down in its core businesusiness start to surface.
Speaker 2: To understand the Las Vegas of today, you have to
Speaker 2: go back to where it all began, and few have
Speaker 2: followed that story, like screenwriter and journalist Nick Pelegi.
Speaker 17: After the Second World War, with the air conditioning allowing
Speaker 17: these places to remain open twelve months a year and
Speaker 17: aviation advancing it changed the whole economy of going to
Speaker 17: Las Vegas and allowed people to begin to invest money.
Speaker 17: It was the only place in America where you could
Speaker 17: gamble legally. Every illegal book maker all around the country,
Speaker 17: all of whom were fully operational and had all the
Speaker 17: political and police connections they needed to operate in the open. Really,
Speaker 17: they all went to Las Vegas, where they were legit.
Speaker 17: It was an amazing moment.
Speaker 2: It was the start of the infamous mob era, a
Speaker 2: world Pologie would later chronicle in the Academy Award nominated
Speaker 2: film Casino.
Speaker 5: Who could resist?
Speaker 18: Anywhere else in the country, I was a bookie, a gambler,
Speaker 18: always looking over my shoulder, hassled by cops day and night.
Speaker 18: But here I'm mister Rothstein. I'm not only legitimate, but
Speaker 18: running at casino. And that's like selling people dreams for cash.
Speaker 2: All of us have heard about the time of the
Speaker 2: mob in Las Vegas. How much of that as myth
Speaker 2: and how much of there's reality?
Speaker 17: Well, it's mostly reality. And when it came time to
Speaker 17: open casinos maybe or expand casinos in Las Vegas because
Speaker 17: of air conditioning and the new aviation, where were you
Speaker 17: going to get that cash? Who was going to invest
Speaker 17: Banks were not investing in casinos because casinos were immoral.
Speaker 17: So you couldn't go to a real bank. You couldn't
Speaker 17: go to Jamie Diamond and say I need two hundred
Speaker 17: million dollars. So the only cash you really had came
Speaker 17: in cash from the men who had originally made their
Speaker 17: wealth in prohibition, and they would doing legitimately what they
Speaker 17: had been doing basically illegitimately. It's really a sort of
Speaker 17: slice of the free enterprise system at work, and it
Speaker 17: just kept getting bigger and bigger, until it got so
Speaker 17: damn big the government said they're making too much money.
Speaker 17: At the government legalized illegal gambling and has taken it
Speaker 17: over and of course not dealing with it as well
Speaker 17: as they mob guys did.
Speaker 2: From mob money to corporate capital, Las Vegas kept evolving.
Speaker 2: But now in the age of online gambling, when a
Speaker 2: casino fits in your pocket, what's next? Fed President Mary
Speaker 2: Daily oversees the Federal Reserve's Western Region.
Speaker 19: The economy of Las Vegas is the kind of economy
Speaker 19: that if the US needs is it usually gets a
Speaker 19: cold or maybe the flu. And so we're seeing some
Speaker 19: of the things that are playing out in the US
Speaker 19: economy play out here in Vegas. I think that the
Speaker 19: Vegas residents are a little worried about that, but you know,
Speaker 19: Vegas reinvents itself regularly, so there not depressed.
Speaker 2: At the center of Las Vegas's latest reinvention is entertainment,
Speaker 2: and one of the biggest players is the Tau Group,
Speaker 2: a hospitality and entertainment company known for operating restaurants and nightclubs.
Speaker 2: Jason Strauss is the group's co founder. You didn't start
Speaker 2: in Las Vegas.
Speaker 5: No, we started in New York City.
Speaker 1: Our first two venues was taw Restaurant in Midtown and
Speaker 1: Marque Nightclub, which I'm proud to say, twenty one years
Speaker 1: later is the longest running nightclub in New York City history.
Speaker 5: And we have one here in Las Vegas.
Speaker 2: Why did you pick Las Vegas because we mostly think
Speaker 2: about Las Vegas for gambling.
Speaker 1: Well, back then, we saw a small inklean of nightlife
Speaker 1: and the need for stylized dining.
Speaker 5: It was just starting.
Speaker 1: There was a lot of celebrity chefs back then, and
Speaker 1: nightlife was maybe one or two nightclubs on the strip.
Speaker 1: But we saw a real need for it, and frankly
Speaker 1: we were right. We hit it right on the nose.
Speaker 1: The timing was amazing. This is going back twenty one years.
Speaker 1: We opened with the first restaurant in nightclub combination. Together,
Speaker 1: we were the first really to like merge and marry
Speaker 1: those two concepts, and within the first year we're the
Speaker 1: highest grossing restaurant in the United States.
Speaker 5: So we had a lot of success with that.
Speaker 2: Tell us about the evolution, I mean, how fast did
Speaker 2: it happen? How big has it got?
Speaker 5: Oh Man, in twenty years, It's been an evolution.
Speaker 1: When I was out here maybe two or three nightclubs,
Speaker 1: we now have sixteen to seventeen venues on the strip,
Speaker 1: depending on how you classify a lounge or a day
Speaker 1: club or nightclub. Now there's this is the nightclub capital
Speaker 1: of the world and the stylized dining capital of the world.
Speaker 2: Is it continuing to grow? What's been the pattern of
Speaker 2: growth just measured by how many people you have coming?
Speaker 5: Well, yeah, it has continued to grow.
Speaker 1: We're dealing with a particular segment we say premium segment
Speaker 1: that's really looking for experiential I mean this nightclub that
Speaker 1: we're in right now, Omnia is the highest grossing nightclub
Speaker 1: in the country. And we have hit our best number
Speaker 1: every year for the last three years here and here
Speaker 1: at Omnia. So this is a really good indication of
Speaker 1: where things are and where it's going.
Speaker 2: When you say best number, is that both in total
Speaker 2: revenue and in revenue.
Speaker 5: Per customer gross net sales gros gross net sets.
Speaker 2: And you measure also how much you revenue get per customer.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, there's a price point. There's a price per head,
Speaker 1: but that differs on day of the week. You know,
Speaker 1: there's a different customer in Vegas every weekend based on
Speaker 1: convention scheduling, So it depends on the time of year,
Speaker 1: who the talent is, sort of other factors that come
Speaker 1: into town, if there's a UFC fight in town, So
Speaker 1: all those things factor into different sort of per head numbers.
Speaker 2: A lot of the people who follow Bloomberg are concerned
Speaker 2: about business cycles.
Speaker 5: They go up and they go down.
Speaker 2: Are you vulnerable to business cycles or are you outside.
Speaker 5: Of business cycles?
Speaker 1: You know, I think we live in a particular demo
Speaker 1: of premium where people have disposable income for experiential so
Speaker 1: I think we're insulated a bit. But listen, Vegas as
Speaker 1: a whole is extremely elastic. Vegas isn't going anywhere.
Speaker 2: Look at this and now taw is doubling down.
Speaker 6: I get it. Yeah, that's been pretty nice.
Speaker 2: Making its biggest bet yet with its newest vend sure
Speaker 2: Omnia day Club set to open later this month.
Speaker 1: Forty six thousand square feet of cabanas, day beds, pools,
Speaker 1: and up on that platform, up there is our Omnia
Speaker 1: sky Deck.
Speaker 2: Day clubs have become one of the biggest entertainment formats
Speaker 2: in Las Vegas, daytime party venues that combine elements of
Speaker 2: the city's famous night life scene with its pool culture
Speaker 2: featuring DJs, cabanas, and high energy crowds. But even as
Speaker 2: Las Vegas leans further into entertainment, the signs of softening
Speaker 2: demand are hard to ignore. Visitor numbers are down seven
Speaker 2: percent in twenty twenty five, the sharpest annual decline outside
Speaker 2: the pandemic. There are reports of some softness and stupen
Speaker 2: see and things like that.
Speaker 17: How true are that?
Speaker 2: Because you monitor these things, what do you look at?
Speaker 19: It's definitely weaker than it was last year, and that
Speaker 19: they have many factors that are affecting it. There's international
Speaker 19: tourism has just dropped.
Speaker 5: To the United States.
Speaker 19: Then you have you know, the household who are making
Speaker 19: fifty percentile or less in household income. They're just making
Speaker 19: trade offs, you know, they have to gas prices are higher,
Speaker 19: other goods and services are higher, and they get here
Speaker 19: and they're like, Okay, I'm going to pay for this experience,
Speaker 19: this show, but maybe I'm not going to spend as
Speaker 19: much at restaurants. Maybe I'll bring food into my hotel
Speaker 19: room and so other aspects of this are hurting a
Speaker 19: little bit, But again, Las Vegas is used to this.
Speaker 2: In a city built on volume and discretionary spending, even
Speaker 2: small pullbacks can have an outsized impact. Since the pandemic,
Speaker 2: Las Vegas unemployment has remained roughly a percentage point above
Speaker 2: the national average. As you look from your approch at
Speaker 2: the Federal Reserve at the economy of Las Vegas, what
Speaker 2: are the major component parts? What do you really pay
Speaker 2: attention to. There's gaming obviously, and you say not so
Speaker 2: much gaming, some other things.
Speaker 19: Yeah, So I look at travel and leisure, So what
Speaker 19: are they doing in travel and entertainment? How are these
Speaker 19: different pockets doing. Then I also look at technology, and
Speaker 19: not so much the coding and things, but the infrastructure.
Speaker 19: You know, are they attracting investments in things like data
Speaker 19: centers or they have a technical interest here they want
Speaker 19: to build technology out because it's just a great place
Speaker 19: to put technical things, So they're working on that. Then
Speaker 19: there's all the support parts of the economy that are
Speaker 19: here to help the gaming and entertainment industry thrive. So
Speaker 19: even if you're not directly working in travel and at
Speaker 19: leisure on the strip, you're actually supporting the broader economy
Speaker 19: by doing distribution and supplies, and so their economy is
Speaker 19: really built on that. But if you ask what's the
Speaker 19: one thing they would get worried about, it's are the
Speaker 19: flights coming in? Are the guests coming because that drives
Speaker 19: a lot of their economy. The technology is something they're
Speaker 19: looking to build too, but it's not something that's driving
Speaker 19: their economy.
Speaker 2: We see a lot of development always in Las Vegas.
Speaker 2: You said it's always reinvaying itself.
Speaker 5: It is always reinventing, buildings getting.
Speaker 2: Torn down and big buildings built and being built up.
Speaker 2: One of the things we've heard is that Las Vegas
Speaker 2: has been sort of advanced in minimizing the regulatory constraints,
Speaker 2: the permitting of things. We've talked to people who say
Speaker 2: they're building things here much faster than in some other
Speaker 2: parts of your district like Los Angeles, San Francisco. Absolutely,
Speaker 2: how true is that?
Speaker 5: It is true?
Speaker 19: So one of the things that we know is that
Speaker 19: there's federal laws about zoning and other things, but most
Speaker 19: of the zoning and where you can build, and how
Speaker 19: you can build, and what kind of like fixtures you
Speaker 19: have to have, that all comes from localities or states
Speaker 19: and Vegas because they need to reinvent themselves and bring
Speaker 19: this these new buildings along. That's part of their attraction.
Speaker 19: They have to be faster, they have to be better,
Speaker 19: they have to be less expensive.
Speaker 2: That combination of speed, quality, and affordability sets Las Vegas apart,
Speaker 2: and Jason Strauss says it's why projects at the size
Speaker 2: and scale of Tow's New day Club can happen here.
Speaker 1: I don't think I need to tell you anything more.
Speaker 1: You can just look at where we are and how
Speaker 1: we are just dead center of the middle of the strip,
Speaker 1: all the famous lights and sound that make Less Vegas famous,
Speaker 1: or right in the middle end here on the Omnious
Speaker 1: Guy Deck.
Speaker 5: You're completely immersed in it.
Speaker 1: You can have food and drink, you can enjoy it
Speaker 1: any day of the week, open seven days a week,
Speaker 1: and this we think is going to be a really
Speaker 1: special experience.
Speaker 2: It's experiences like these that have long drawn people to
Speaker 2: Las Vegas, a city built on reinvention, risk, and the
Speaker 2: willingness to take a chance on what comes next.
Speaker 17: I think it's the most American thing we've got, isn't it.
Speaker 17: I Mean it's kind of frontier, it has the cowboy
Speaker 17: world to it. It's everybody's got a shot. It's sort
Speaker 17: of like it's America in miniature because so many different
Speaker 17: people go there, right from all over the country. So
Speaker 17: it's like in America for America.
Speaker 2: That does it for us. Here at Wall Street Week,
Speaker 2: I'm David Weston. See you next week for more stories
Speaker 2: of capitalism
Speaker 8: Many years