1 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:09,600 Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of Strictly Business, the podcast that 2 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:11,920 Speaker 1: goes deep on the media business with some of its 3 00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 1: most interesting practitioners. I'm Andrew Wallenstein, co editor in chief 4 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:18,960 Speaker 1: of Variety. For this latest installment, I went one on 5 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 1: one with Ben Lehrer. He's the CEO of Group nine, 6 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:26,239 Speaker 1: media holding company with a minority investment from Discovery that 7 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:30,040 Speaker 1: includes digital brands like now This, the Dodo Seeker and 8 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:34,000 Speaker 1: Thrill List brand Lehrer started himself. He spoke with me 9 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 1: in his capacity not just a CEO, but as managing 10 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 1: partner of venture capital fund Lehrer Hippo. I think you 11 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 1: learned a lot from our conversation about the current state 12 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:46,520 Speaker 1: of the digital media world and where it's heading next. 13 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:51,959 Speaker 1: So without further ado, here's Ben Lehrer. So I want 14 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 1: to first start with where Group nine is, because it's 15 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:57,360 Speaker 1: been a year. Just talk about the formation of that 16 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 1: in the rational several years ago. Started to sort of 17 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 1: pick my head up a little bit from building thrills 18 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:04,400 Speaker 1: and just say what else is sort of happening in media? 19 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 1: What are the companies that were investing, what are the 20 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:09,839 Speaker 1: trends that we're seeing, And came to this thesis which 21 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:13,120 Speaker 1: was that we were going to be entering a period 22 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 1: of consolidation. And when you look back and sort of 23 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 1: study the history of media, uh, we actually thought that 24 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:22,319 Speaker 1: what was happening in in digital media in many ways 25 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:25,040 Speaker 1: mirrored what happened thirty five years ago with cable, where 26 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:27,960 Speaker 1: you had sort of a new pipe get created and 27 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 1: a bunch of brands emerge that were uh that went 28 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 1: deep into specific verticals for specific audiences, um, you know, 29 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:38,880 Speaker 1: and and in in a in a decade you saw 30 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:42,039 Speaker 1: the launch of everything from ESPN, HBO two, CNN, MTV 31 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:45,560 Speaker 1: and all these great big brands got built, but uh, 32 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 1: it wasn't clear that they were going to be great 33 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 1: big brands or big successful businesses in the early days 34 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 1: where there was still lots of questions about the efficacy 35 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 1: of cable and how big it was going to get 36 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 1: blah blah blah, and so uh, I think what we 37 00:01:57,120 --> 00:02:00,120 Speaker 1: saw happening in digital media was something similar, were you 38 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:03,840 Speaker 1: had a new set of pipes, really driven by social media, 39 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 1: where a whole new generation was consuming content. Differently, there 40 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:11,639 Speaker 1: was a bunch of startups that were creating uh, new 41 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:15,720 Speaker 1: brands that were speaking to various specific audiences just like 42 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:18,200 Speaker 1: the cable networks had done thirty five years earlier, and 43 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:21,400 Speaker 1: but they were operating independently, and there was lots of 44 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:23,519 Speaker 1: questions about how big they could get and the business 45 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 1: model and the money that was existing at the platforms 46 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 1: versus going directly to the the brands blah blah blah, 47 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:32,639 Speaker 1: and and said, look, Thrillist is a cable network. It's 48 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 1: one network, but we need more scale to really matter. 49 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 1: We think consolidation is gonna be coming to every sort 50 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:44,200 Speaker 1: of layer of media. And obviously a huge number of 51 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 1: moves have happened since we put these brands together. But 52 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 1: through that sort of thesis, we I looked around, I said, 53 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 1: if I was starting throw us again today, what brands? 54 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 1: What would I want this company to look like? Who 55 00:02:57,160 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 1: would I sort of aspire to be? And very specifically, 56 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 1: we we saw the Dodo and now This as two 57 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 1: brands that I thought were being built in a really modern, 58 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:13,600 Speaker 1: really creative and thoughtful way, truly built natively for the 59 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:19,080 Speaker 1: social pipes. From day one, Dreaming in Video incredibly um 60 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 1: intelligent about how they use data to influence the way 61 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:24,240 Speaker 1: that they thought about content creation. And when you say, 62 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:26,840 Speaker 1: by the way, Dreaming and Video you mean, Well, so 63 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 1: I use the word dreaming in video because it doesn't 64 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:32,079 Speaker 1: mean only creating content in video necessarily. I think about 65 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 1: somebody who's bilingual, what language do they dream in? Um, 66 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 1: what is the thing that they feel most comfortable doing? 67 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:43,120 Speaker 1: And so I believe that content there, every story should 68 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 1: be told and whatever the best format is for the story. 69 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:48,840 Speaker 1: And uh, but but I think for us, as we 70 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 1: sort of think about what Group nine is, we want 71 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 1: to be a company that dreams in video, that first 72 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 1: thinks about telling stories and sight, sound and motion, but 73 00:03:56,720 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 1: then totally acknowledging that there are amazing and really valuable 74 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 1: ways to tell written stories and stories through all different 75 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 1: types of formats. So that's what I mean by dreaming 76 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 1: and video. Got it. And in terms of this consolidated 77 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 1: environment that you are putting together, this Group nine entity, 78 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 1: in has it played out this past year both in 79 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 1: the marketplace and within Group nine as you thought it would? Yeah? So, 80 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:26,359 Speaker 1: I you know, I know it's sort of everyone's always 81 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 1: doing the everything is great, We're crushing it version of entrepreneurship, 82 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:36,279 Speaker 1: and uh, the reality is, uh, everything has not played 83 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 1: out exactly the way that I would have like sort 84 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 1: of projected but the overarching story is, as far as 85 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 1: I can tell, really best case scenario, we are operating 86 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 1: like one company. UM, It's taken a lot to get 87 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:56,719 Speaker 1: there and to figure out how these cultures work together 88 00:04:56,800 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 1: and to figure out, you know, building a holding companies 89 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:04,360 Speaker 1: are really uh it's a tough thing because, um, these 90 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 1: brands are different, and they stand for different things, and 91 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 1: they have different workforces and uh, figuring out how to 92 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:15,919 Speaker 1: build a corporate entity that provides value to them but 93 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:19,040 Speaker 1: allows them to be themselves is really difficult. And I 94 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 1: think I underestimated how hard that was going to be, 95 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 1: uh culturally and how hard it was going to be 96 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:26,840 Speaker 1: to build trust amongst the brands and to build a 97 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:31,080 Speaker 1: leadership team that was strong enough and and teams at 98 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:33,679 Speaker 1: the corporate layer that we're able to provide a level 99 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 1: of service to the brands that would be greater uh 100 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 1: then the brands would be able to provide for themselves. 101 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 1: And so building that infrastructure was really hard. UM. An 102 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:47,240 Speaker 1: incredible learning curve for me and for our leadership team 103 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:50,320 Speaker 1: over the last year. But I'm I can genuinely say 104 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:53,240 Speaker 1: we've done it. We've been we've you know, we've outpaced 105 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 1: the market We've grown, uh, every in every which way 106 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:04,279 Speaker 1: from audience to influence to financially um in really spectacular ways. 107 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 1: And yesterday was our new frontum, which is sort of 108 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:12,279 Speaker 1: a it's a good moment to take a little barometer. 109 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:13,840 Speaker 1: It's like, you know, it's a it's a moment to 110 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:16,920 Speaker 1: take a temperature of where are we And you can 111 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 1: think back to a year ago where we were at 112 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:22,360 Speaker 1: our new front and uh, we're we're in a really 113 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 1: great place. I mean, you know, and that that doesn't 114 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 1: mean it's easy, it's super hard. Well that's the thing. 115 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:31,920 Speaker 1: I mean. You hear about companies like Vice and BuzzFeed 116 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:35,160 Speaker 1: and what they have gone through in terms of the 117 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:38,479 Speaker 1: challenges and monetization, and I compare that to this sort 118 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 1: of blue sky version of hey where the new cable networks? 119 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 1: And I don't know which end of the spectrum we're 120 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:46,599 Speaker 1: at right now. It feels like this is it's hard 121 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:50,279 Speaker 1: to imagine these businesses becoming the kind of success that 122 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:54,800 Speaker 1: cable was given where they're at right now. I fully 123 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 1: fully get that. I think that up the other side 124 00:06:57,160 --> 00:06:58,720 Speaker 1: of the coin is when you go talk to people 125 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 1: who work in the cable business US, it's not like 126 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:04,919 Speaker 1: they're sitting around feeling like they're on top of the 127 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:08,599 Speaker 1: world because they there's there's pressure coming from all sides 128 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 1: right now. And so I don't believe that, uh, there's 129 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 1: a straight line to just going and sort of usurping 130 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 1: Cable and suddenly having a business that has, you know, 131 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 1: net revenue margins like the beautiful model that Cable had 132 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 1: for the last generation. UM. I also don't think that 133 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 1: the last generation Cable model exists for Cable. And I 134 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 1: think that the real currency here is attention and obsession 135 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 1: and building brands that matter. And so I'm a big 136 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 1: believer actually in the intersection of the last generation media 137 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 1: model and the new generation media model and sort of 138 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:49,160 Speaker 1: where those things come together. And actually, when we created 139 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 1: Group nine UH, we did so with a meaningful investment 140 00:07:55,480 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 1: from Discovery, not only financial investment, but also apart partnership 141 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 1: where the spirit of the partnership was to really help 142 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 1: one another figure out how to UH thrive in this 143 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:15,440 Speaker 1: challenging environment. And we've made a lot of progress and 144 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 1: I think learned a lot from one another, and as 145 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 1: time goes on, that partnership continues to strength. And really 146 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:23,080 Speaker 1: excited that they did the script deal as I think 147 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 1: that creates more opportunity, more free cash flow, there, more 148 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 1: uh ability to sort of take some risks and try 149 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 1: some new things, as well as bringing some brands into 150 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 1: the fold there that aligned with some of our brands 151 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:40,960 Speaker 1: really beautifully. And so just really thankful for that partnership. 152 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:44,560 Speaker 1: And and you know, I would be lying to say 153 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:47,560 Speaker 1: that I know exactly what the future looks like, but 154 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:50,200 Speaker 1: it amazes me when a company like Discovery and this 155 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:54,320 Speaker 1: is there far from an anomaly, make significant investments in 156 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:59,439 Speaker 1: digital publishers given where things are right now. Is Discovery 157 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:02,040 Speaker 1: doing this but because you guys help them figure out 158 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 1: the future? I think discoveries doing it because they're they're 159 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 1: really smart. They can see that how the business is 160 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:20,079 Speaker 1: working today is not indicative of how the business is 161 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:26,240 Speaker 1: going to work tomorrow, and that a younger audiences have 162 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 1: very different behaviors, very different habits, very different interests. And 163 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 1: to build a multi generational media company today means needing 164 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 1: to have a deep understanding of all the screens and 165 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:47,440 Speaker 1: distribution pipes that matter. And while we're still living in 166 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:49,600 Speaker 1: a world where we may be dealing with you know, 167 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 1: digital dimes, ah, the pieces are moving and marketers are moving, 168 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:58,360 Speaker 1: and you know, there's a lot of there's a lot 169 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 1: of structure around how media dollars transact. There's a lot 170 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:06,800 Speaker 1: of structure around how digital right now is wired around 171 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 1: Facebook and Google and Amazon and dollars sort of going 172 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:14,280 Speaker 1: through the pipes. It's really interesting if you look at 173 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 1: the cable model, the dollars don't go through the pipes. 174 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 1: The dollars go through the publishers, and digital has sort 175 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:25,320 Speaker 1: of been wired differently. And I do believe firmly that 176 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:29,679 Speaker 1: there is a much better and bigger business model for 177 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 1: publishers who continue to focus on and take a long 178 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:38,720 Speaker 1: term view on the value of their relationships with platforms 179 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:42,839 Speaker 1: like Facebook and Snapchat and uh and Twitter and Instagram 180 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 1: and YouTube. So so here's the interesting thing about some 181 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:49,680 Speaker 1: of the relationships with these platforms, which is it is 182 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:52,960 Speaker 1: maddeningly slow. But if you were to take a pin 183 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:57,880 Speaker 1: and put it in the publisher business model with Facebook 184 00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:02,440 Speaker 1: two years ago today, you would say, there's not a 185 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 1: dollar coming from video. Facebook is not paying for any 186 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:13,640 Speaker 1: content there is. There's essentially no business model whatsoever. If 187 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:16,400 Speaker 1: you were to put a pin in a year ago, 188 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 1: you would say, we're starting to monetize video a little bit. 189 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:27,719 Speaker 1: We are still not really in a bus there's still 190 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:30,960 Speaker 1: not really buying any content or underwriting any content creation. 191 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 1: But the revenue is exponentially bigger than it was a 192 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:36,199 Speaker 1: year ago. And if you were to do the same 193 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 1: thing today, you would say Facebook is now starting to 194 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:45,760 Speaker 1: become a larger buyer of content. They've announced that there 195 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:48,440 Speaker 1: will be a buyer in the news category as well. 196 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:52,720 Speaker 1: Um with the stuff that Campbell Brown's running. They are 197 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:58,199 Speaker 1: now testing pre roll. Facebook Watches is growing and there's 198 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 1: a mid roll product that is not only available for 199 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 1: publishers to monetize on backfield, but there's a handful of 200 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:07,520 Speaker 1: publishers who are actually able to sell their own inventory, 201 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:12,040 Speaker 1: of which we're one of. And do we feel that 202 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 1: we were being fairly compensated for the value that we're 203 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:17,960 Speaker 1: creating on Facebook today? No? Do we feel like we're 204 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:21,280 Speaker 1: better compensated than we were a year ago. Yes. Do 205 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:24,360 Speaker 1: we feel like we're having more engaged conversations and that 206 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 1: there is a genuine desire to figure out how to 207 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:32,080 Speaker 1: make this work for publishers. Yes, I'm a little bit 208 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:36,400 Speaker 1: of an anomaly because we are one of legitimately the 209 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:40,760 Speaker 1: one or two largest Facebook premium Facebook publishers that exists, 210 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:44,200 Speaker 1: and so the relationship that we have maybe on the 211 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:47,200 Speaker 1: absolute front end or the sort of the cutting edge 212 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 1: of where uh Facebook is going to participate with publishers, 213 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:54,679 Speaker 1: and so we get to be partnering with them, and 214 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:59,680 Speaker 1: not only sort of we're we're the front of the spear, 215 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 1: not the you know, the tip of the spear and 216 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:02,760 Speaker 1: not the end of the spear, which is which is 217 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:04,560 Speaker 1: a good place to be, which is maybe why I 218 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:07,040 Speaker 1: have more confidence that we're going to get to where 219 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:08,840 Speaker 1: we get where we need to get to there. But 220 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 1: this is going to take a long time. And I 221 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 1: actually think one of the issues that you've seen with 222 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 1: digital media is as companies forecast growth in their business, 223 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:22,280 Speaker 1: they assume that changes are going to happen more quickly 224 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:26,760 Speaker 1: than they do, and they forecast revenue coming from these sources, 225 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 1: by the way, really high margin revenue, because it's essentially 226 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 1: against content that right now is being unmonetized, and that 227 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:38,920 Speaker 1: when it doesn't show up, it really hurts. It's very 228 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:41,559 Speaker 1: painful when you expect a dollar from Facebook and the 229 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:44,280 Speaker 1: dollar doesn't show up because you made the content, so 230 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:46,560 Speaker 1: it just hits your bottom line, and so I think 231 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 1: what we're being pretty smart about is ah is continuing 232 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 1: to see growth against our distributed revenue, but also knowing 233 00:13:56,679 --> 00:13:59,560 Speaker 1: that this is a medium and long term play and 234 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 1: that to day the business model isn't knocking us out 235 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:08,640 Speaker 1: of our seats. With that being said, we build big reach, 236 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:11,120 Speaker 1: we build big audience, is we build big influence, we 237 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:15,080 Speaker 1: build big brand. We're selling amazing, innovative, best in class 238 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:18,760 Speaker 1: branded content products. We're finding ways to create more scalability 239 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:21,840 Speaker 1: in those products. In the ways that we seamlessly are 240 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:27,680 Speaker 1: able to repackage advertisers content and redistribute it. We're able 241 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:31,280 Speaker 1: to make um really smart decisions around the content that 242 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 1: we create and distribute for advertisers based on all the 243 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 1: data that we have around how audiences behave in the 244 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 1: way that they respond to content. Um I I genuinely 245 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 1: believe that there will be there is an more and 246 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:48,440 Speaker 1: more money to be made by publishers on these platforms. 247 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 1: Um I don't think we're going to get to the 248 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 1: place that Rupert Murdoch would like us to get to 249 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 1: and that a lot of people would like us to 250 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:57,880 Speaker 1: get to, where we're just going to get an affiliate 251 00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 1: fee but I do believe that there will be some 252 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 1: version of an affiliate fee that will be paid out 253 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:07,000 Speaker 1: in a meritocracy where the brands that create the best content, 254 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:09,600 Speaker 1: create the most engagement will be able to share in 255 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:12,400 Speaker 1: the wealth that Facebook creates. And I think it's because 256 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:17,680 Speaker 1: Facebook is a Facebook does what's best for Facebook, and 257 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 1: I genuinely believe what's best for Facebook is creating an 258 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 1: environment for premium publishers to thrive. So dealing with platforms 259 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:31,400 Speaker 1: has its challenges, but you're encouraged by progress from year 260 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 1: to year in the recent years. Where does your pin 261 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:36,320 Speaker 1: go next? What do you what do you want to 262 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 1: see happen in beyond? It's a really good question. I 263 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:44,080 Speaker 1: think it's different for each platform. Um, what I'd like 264 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:48,440 Speaker 1: to see for Facebook is getting to the point where 265 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:53,320 Speaker 1: we share in newspeed revenue. Right now, they create interesting 266 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 1: opportunities for sharing and revenue in sort of ancillary other locations. 267 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:03,360 Speaker 1: And because Facebook's audience is so enormous that money is 268 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:06,480 Speaker 1: not irrelevant, particularly to publishers with the scale that some 269 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 1: of our brands have. That being said, I think we 270 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:11,200 Speaker 1: get to a point, or need to get to a 271 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 1: point where Facebook shares news feed revenue. It can be 272 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 1: based on the quality of engagement that is created, certainly, um, 273 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:21,200 Speaker 1: but that's where we want to get to. I don't 274 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 1: know if we'll get there in twenty or twenty nineteen. 275 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:25,520 Speaker 1: I honestly think it's in Facebook's best interest to do 276 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 1: it immediately. UM. And I feel that I have a 277 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:33,080 Speaker 1: venue to actually have those conversations with folks at Facebook, 278 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:38,240 Speaker 1: which I think is important. UM. At the you know, 279 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:40,840 Speaker 1: at the same time, there are there are different things 280 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:43,360 Speaker 1: and different progress that needs to be made on each 281 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:49,280 Speaker 1: individual platform. UM. The place I would really ultimately like 282 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 1: to get to, and where I believe we'll get in 283 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:56,800 Speaker 1: the not too distant future but probably not, is where 284 00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:01,040 Speaker 1: a publisher like Group nine has the ability to sell 285 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:05,240 Speaker 1: transactional advertising across all of our social channels, and so 286 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:07,120 Speaker 1: where a brand could come to us and we could 287 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:17,639 Speaker 1: sell them pre role or mid role across our Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Instagram, 288 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:22,360 Speaker 1: and Snapchat channels. And right now we can sell snap 289 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:28,120 Speaker 1: we can sell as part of a beta Facebook Watch 290 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:35,360 Speaker 1: mid role, not pre role. We can sell YouTube, Um, 291 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:38,679 Speaker 1: there's no monetization to speak of it Instagram yet, um, 292 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:42,200 Speaker 1: and that will be coming. And we can't sell Twitter yet. 293 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:44,159 Speaker 1: But I believe that that will be coming. As recently 294 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:46,160 Speaker 1: as this week it was rumored that it was coming soon. 295 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:49,679 Speaker 1: And um, we think that the Twitter folks are super 296 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:54,600 Speaker 1: smart and engaged and asking all the right questions and 297 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:57,480 Speaker 1: so getting to the point where you start to have 298 00:17:57,560 --> 00:18:03,120 Speaker 1: the ability to turn brand on at scale across your 299 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:07,639 Speaker 1: premium content on all of these channels starts to feel 300 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:12,000 Speaker 1: more like TV. And I think that's the future that 301 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:15,880 Speaker 1: we're coming towards. And I think the smart, big traditional 302 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:19,960 Speaker 1: media companies can see a world where that happens. And 303 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:21,560 Speaker 1: if they're not set up for it, and if they're 304 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:24,920 Speaker 1: not making investments in partnerships and acquisitions in the best 305 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:27,879 Speaker 1: digital publishers, it's going to be really, really unpleasant for 306 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 1: them because they're going to have let the massive advantage 307 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 1: that they have slip away. And that's one of the 308 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:36,480 Speaker 1: things that I one of the reasons I think Discovery 309 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:41,040 Speaker 1: is so smart that David is not waiting for Yeah, 310 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 1: is David as Love is not waiting for the the 311 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:48,160 Speaker 1: sort of the other shoe to drop. He's seeing where 312 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:52,439 Speaker 1: the future is going. Um, and you know, he's a 313 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 1: We're we're really lucky to be in business with him. Well, 314 00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:59,159 Speaker 1: what I'm wondering about is you talk about the monetization 315 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:04,080 Speaker 1: opportunities these platforms. Is are you also going to David's 316 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:06,720 Speaker 1: as Love, the CEO of Discovery, and saying, hey, I 317 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:09,639 Speaker 1: need to sell my shows to television. That's where the 318 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:14,600 Speaker 1: real money is. June nine, we launch a show called 319 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:18,240 Speaker 1: Dodo Heroes on Animal Planet. UM so one of our brands, 320 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:21,639 Speaker 1: the Dodo um we'll be launching a full season of 321 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 1: linear TV globally in three and sixty million homes in 322 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:29,520 Speaker 1: partnership with Animal Planet. Will also be launching it digitally 323 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:33,439 Speaker 1: across all of the Dodo's channels in different formats. But 324 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:36,520 Speaker 1: I think that is part of the future. Uh So, 325 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:39,960 Speaker 1: you know, I'm not one of these people who says 326 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:44,560 Speaker 1: digital is everything. Linear is dead. It's a little bit 327 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 1: like some of the director consumer retail startups five years ago. 328 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:51,239 Speaker 1: It's like Director consumers everything. We would never sell our 329 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:52,720 Speaker 1: product through a third party. And then you get to 330 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:53,920 Speaker 1: a point whe're like, hey, you know a lot of 331 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 1: people still go to Walmart. Like there there's some version 332 00:19:57,000 --> 00:20:00,639 Speaker 1: of linear TV still exists. Those companies are not just 333 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:02,679 Speaker 1: going to roll over and die. The idea that we 334 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:08,160 Speaker 1: would uh forsake those platforms actually is a little bit, 335 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:13,600 Speaker 1: uh would be hypocritical of our real philosophy, which is 336 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:18,280 Speaker 1: to superserve audiences, go to them, go to wherever big 337 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:22,040 Speaker 1: audiences live. And even though TV audiences are in decline, 338 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:25,760 Speaker 1: who are we kidding, there's still lots of people watching 339 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:31,720 Speaker 1: linear television, and so we're I want to be everywhere. 340 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:33,320 Speaker 1: I want to be on all these platforms. I want 341 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:35,719 Speaker 1: to build big brands that you trip over that our 342 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:39,159 Speaker 1: household names. And part of building brands like that means 343 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:43,560 Speaker 1: not turning your nose up at at linear television. And 344 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:46,280 Speaker 1: so we're going to be pitching more and more programs 345 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 1: like that. Yesterday we announced at our new front program 346 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 1: that we're creating between Seeker and Discovery called The Swim, 347 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:59,159 Speaker 1: where we're gonna be following an amazing guy who's going 348 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:01,479 Speaker 1: to be the first person to swim across the Pacific Ocean. 349 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:05,320 Speaker 1: He leaves next month, and that's a that's a program 350 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:08,520 Speaker 1: that is going to live across linear and digital channels, 351 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:12,160 Speaker 1: I think in a really innovative new way. UM So 352 00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:14,840 Speaker 1: I'm all for sort of testing and trying all these 353 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:20,399 Speaker 1: different formats as long as we're making great stuff. Is 354 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 1: it easy? Given each platform has its own different creative 355 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:29,119 Speaker 1: nuances programming in a way where something makes sense on 356 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:33,679 Speaker 1: Snapchat and Twitter and TV because it does feel like 357 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 1: more and more, particularly Snapchat where I think you've got 358 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 1: a new venture going with the now this brand and 359 00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:42,040 Speaker 1: doing a breaking news Uh to talk about how that 360 00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:46,080 Speaker 1: works well, So all the platforms are different, uh, and 361 00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:50,399 Speaker 1: they they sort of reward and incentivized content for driving 362 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:54,000 Speaker 1: different kinds of behaviors. And obviously you know, everything from 363 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:56,840 Speaker 1: vertical video to sixteen by nine like there are there's 364 00:21:56,880 --> 00:22:02,240 Speaker 1: also technical differences in the content. Uh. I think the 365 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:06,080 Speaker 1: strength of Group nine is a really nuanced understanding of 366 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:10,040 Speaker 1: those different platforms and of the sort of the best 367 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 1: practices and the ways to be innovative on one platform 368 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:22,480 Speaker 1: versus another. That being said, really compelling stories have a 369 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:25,240 Speaker 1: home on all of them. And so you know, let's 370 00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:28,679 Speaker 1: use the swim as an example. It's an amazing story. 371 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:33,000 Speaker 1: We're doing a bunch of scientific experiments, or about the 372 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:40,200 Speaker 1: health of sharks, the health of phytoplankton, what the radioactive 373 00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:45,240 Speaker 1: spill in Japan has done to the oceans around there, 374 00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:49,119 Speaker 1: and how far it's had impacted the sea studying the 375 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:51,879 Speaker 1: physical and mental health of the guy swimming, looking at 376 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:55,080 Speaker 1: the great garbage patch, all of these interesting studies. There's 377 00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:58,119 Speaker 1: so much content that comes out of this. Will be 378 00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:01,639 Speaker 1: telling stories on staff Chat that will feel totally native 379 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:05,119 Speaker 1: to and relevant for Snapchat and will be something that 380 00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:09,119 Speaker 1: our audiences there will get to uh to experience and 381 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:11,840 Speaker 1: will tell a totally different version of that story in 382 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:15,920 Speaker 1: Facebook through live updates from the boat. But we'll also 383 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:20,640 Speaker 1: create a Facebook Watch show where we'll do like more 384 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:24,840 Speaker 1: in depth episodes studying specific themes that are happening in 385 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:27,840 Speaker 1: the boat. Those episodes may also be able to live 386 00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:31,280 Speaker 1: in that exact format or a slightly different format on YouTube, 387 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:36,440 Speaker 1: which may not work at all for how we want 388 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:39,879 Speaker 1: to go and create a listicle on the website about 389 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:43,360 Speaker 1: the ten scariest things that he encountered this week. So 390 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:47,240 Speaker 1: I think the point is great stories live in a 391 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:53,240 Speaker 1: bunch of different way formats and versions and will be 392 00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:56,240 Speaker 1: packaged differently for different platforms. But as long as the 393 00:23:56,480 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 1: core is a great story, there are there is life 394 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:05,760 Speaker 1: across all these places, and so I don't think that 395 00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:09,159 Speaker 1: you have I think that there is. There's sort of 396 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,440 Speaker 1: two schools of thought and neither of them are quite right. 397 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:13,640 Speaker 1: One of them is every piece of content you make 398 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 1: lives everywhere, and you just think of them as pipes 399 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:18,639 Speaker 1: and you make it one place and you distribute it 400 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:24,040 Speaker 1: everywhere else. That would be really nice. It's just simply 401 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:27,320 Speaker 1: not the way it works. You see that problem sort 402 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:30,399 Speaker 1: of most being most pervasive for marketers. So a brand, 403 00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:32,840 Speaker 1: they still make a TV spot and then they're like, cool, 404 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:35,480 Speaker 1: let's jam that spot into YouTube, jamming into Facebook, jam 405 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:37,840 Speaker 1: and jammin and jammin and cut the TV spot to 406 00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:40,359 Speaker 1: six seconds, and it's like, no, it's the TV spot 407 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:42,440 Speaker 1: wasn't made Like the TV spot not made for Snapchat. 408 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:46,480 Speaker 1: Stop doing that. That's never going to work. So you 409 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:48,080 Speaker 1: have that school of thought, and then you have another, 410 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:51,240 Speaker 1: which is every single thing has to be so incredibly 411 00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:54,439 Speaker 1: bespoke to each platform that you can never tell the 412 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:57,720 Speaker 1: same story anywhere. And then the cost of content creation 413 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:01,119 Speaker 1: are two owners to really build a business on, and 414 00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:05,240 Speaker 1: so figuring out the nuances of how to how to 415 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:07,199 Speaker 1: get the most bang for the buck and get the 416 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:09,280 Speaker 1: most out of each story that you want to tell 417 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:13,720 Speaker 1: is something that we're maniacally focused on. Building a lot 418 00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:18,400 Speaker 1: of technology around UH being able to track and understand 419 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:20,760 Speaker 1: the value of i P. So, if we have a story, 420 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:23,680 Speaker 1: how much value are we able to extract from that 421 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:27,119 Speaker 1: story across all of these different platforms. What's our cost 422 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:29,800 Speaker 1: in to create and what's our cost out to monitor? 423 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:32,840 Speaker 1: What's our revenue out from a monetization perspective, And so 424 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:36,440 Speaker 1: that's a big focus for us, is sort of starting 425 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:39,359 Speaker 1: to track the value of i P. It's something that 426 00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:41,840 Speaker 1: TV companies did really well forever. It's something that digital 427 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:45,480 Speaker 1: companies never have thought about. Uh. I would actually say 428 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:47,720 Speaker 1: probably the digital company that has done the best job 429 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:51,280 Speaker 1: of this is probably Complex. I think that they've they've 430 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:55,000 Speaker 1: done a nice job of picking some shows, really leaning 431 00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:58,119 Speaker 1: into them, making the multi platform. A lot of respect 432 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:00,240 Speaker 1: for what they've done on the i P developments side, 433 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,280 Speaker 1: and I think that it's something that we're leaning really 434 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:06,960 Speaker 1: hard into and we're gonna get very sophisticated about quite quickly. 435 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:11,360 Speaker 1: One last question, take your Group nine hat off, put 436 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:16,200 Speaker 1: your Laryer hippo hat on. Are you finding in this 437 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:20,439 Speaker 1: climate tough as it is that you're you're you're seeing 438 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:25,160 Speaker 1: investment opportunities and media still? Yeah, absolutely, I think we've 439 00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:27,920 Speaker 1: made in the last you know, year two a handful 440 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:31,160 Speaker 1: of really exciting investments. We invested in a company called Bratt, 441 00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:35,479 Speaker 1: which is Rob Fishman's uh, I guess not so new now, 442 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:37,080 Speaker 1: probably about a year and a whole year and a 443 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:41,480 Speaker 1: half old company focused on UM young young young sort 444 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:48,960 Speaker 1: of teen and preteen girls, UM, doing really interesting cool 445 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:54,720 Speaker 1: stuff around scripted uh shows obviously digital first that that 446 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:56,920 Speaker 1: he's having a lot of success with. We're really excited about. 447 00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 1: Another one's crypt t V, which is a a horror 448 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 1: company where they seed sort of create and seed characters 449 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 1: and and and build communities around them in social and 450 00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:10,480 Speaker 1: then go and take that I P and bring it 451 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:15,480 Speaker 1: to new screens. Really clever. Uh, great founder Jack Davis 452 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:22,400 Speaker 1: doing cool stuff there. Um, there are there are not 453 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:25,960 Speaker 1: it is. Our bar is very high. Uh. You know, 454 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:28,840 Speaker 1: we've we've done it. We've done well investing in media 455 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:33,080 Speaker 1: and have been uh we've been successful doing it, and 456 00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:34,720 Speaker 1: I think we have a good sense of what's happening 457 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:38,880 Speaker 1: in the market. But there are still super innovative, interesting 458 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:42,240 Speaker 1: companies being launched. There's not a lot of money for them, 459 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:48,600 Speaker 1: so part of it is there there are never that 460 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:53,080 Speaker 1: many vcs interested in funding media, no matter what the environment. 461 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 1: It's just not a category that typically lends itself very 462 00:27:56,359 --> 00:28:02,240 Speaker 1: well to venture capital and so uh in. As a result, 463 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:06,000 Speaker 1: there's less ideas because there's less people going into categories 464 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:09,160 Speaker 1: where you can't really raise money. But there are certainly 465 00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:12,120 Speaker 1: breakout companies that are emerging that we're incredibly excited about, 466 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:15,879 Speaker 1: and um, you know, I'm just a believer in there's 467 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:17,919 Speaker 1: there's no such thing as a time when there's not 468 00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:21,040 Speaker 1: going to be new, innovative, cool stuff happening. There's just 469 00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:25,280 Speaker 1: too many clever, weird people in the world that you're 470 00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:28,240 Speaker 1: always gonna have no ideas well, it sounds like a 471 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:30,639 Speaker 1: good optimistic note to end on. Thanks for talking to 472 00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:34,800 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me, Thanks for tuning 473 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:38,440 Speaker 1: into another episode of Strictly Business. Make sure you subscribe 474 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,240 Speaker 1: for all future episodes in tune in next week when 475 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 1: we'll be back with Playground Entertainment CEO Colin Calendar.