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Speaker 1: The celebration of Obamacare leaves out some realities that people

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Speaker 1: are either unaware of or have forgotten, and we thought

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Speaker 1: we'd bring in the smartest guy around healthcare that we know,

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Speaker 1: Craig got Walls, Craig the healthcare guru. We call him

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Speaker 1: attorney at law and benefit consultant Benefit Revolution. I'm you're

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Speaker 1: probably still hungover from the party Craig celebrating the passage

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Speaker 1: of Obamacare. Well, yeah, yeah, you know, obviously I'm hungover.

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Speaker 1: But at least I made it into the show. You know,

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Speaker 1: your your your valued partner there. He's he's just he's

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Speaker 1: so hungover. He turned into a Tiger Woods fanboy and

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Speaker 1: he's just following, following Tiger around all day. Joe is

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Speaker 1: at the Master's a dream of his for as long

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Speaker 1: as I've known him, and I've known him over half

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Speaker 1: his life. Um uh, to go to the Masters and

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Speaker 1: he's there with his dead brother, which sounds pretty cool,

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Speaker 1: and I'm sure we'll hear about it on Monday or

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Speaker 1: hopefully he's going to try to call in. But they

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Speaker 1: don't allow phones there, which is pretty cool. I think

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Speaker 1: that's a good thing. I wish more events didn't allow

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Speaker 1: cell phones. I think that should become a common thing.

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Speaker 1: That'd be awesome, totally, totally, and it's cool. I mean

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Speaker 1: he COVID postponed him twice on this deal, right, so

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Speaker 1: it really is something long awaited for him. So the

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Speaker 1: celebration of the passage of Obamacare, Um, yeah, first of all,

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Speaker 1: where are we with the popularity of Obamacare? As far

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Speaker 1: as you know, It's pretty popular now, isn't it. Yeah, No,

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Speaker 1: I think it is. Yeah, that's that's what I don't

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Speaker 1: have it my fingertips, jack, But I think I think

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Speaker 1: if you ask the general public, they probably more than

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Speaker 1: at this point approve of Obamacare. And you know what

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Speaker 1: they know of as Obamacare. Yeah, they generally conflated as

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Speaker 1: more people got coverage, you know, more people got coverage,

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Speaker 1: and so they just think of it as a good thing.

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Speaker 1: They don't realize, you know, what they're paying for it,

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Speaker 1: and uh, they don't realize exactly what it's done to healthcare.

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Speaker 1: So you know, overall, it's kind of like kind of

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Speaker 1: like what happened with Medicare and Medicaid. You know, people

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Speaker 1: that was a big contentious thing back in the in

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Speaker 1: the sixties, and now they're cemented in and the idea

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Speaker 1: of pulling away Medicare or Medicaid is is something that

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Speaker 1: you can't even mention. Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's very

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Speaker 1: troubling to me that how really expensive programs that don't

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Speaker 1: do what they were intended to do or or doing

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Speaker 1: you know, a whole bunch of things that they weren't

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Speaker 1: supposed to do um or just do it so unwell,

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Speaker 1: become so incredibly poorly, but that becoming grained into our

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Speaker 1: system and everything like that, and they don't go away

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Speaker 1: run through some of the things that Obamacare was supposed

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Speaker 1: to do. And then the reality of how it turned

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Speaker 1: out because I was looking over your list that you

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Speaker 1: sent me and a lot of them, including number one,

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Speaker 1: are shocking. Well yeah, and it's it's important to you know,

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Speaker 1: this is twelve years ago now, so it's important to

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Speaker 1: reset twelve years ago. Twelve years ago. I know, isn't

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Speaker 1: that that's unbelievable, but um, Obamacare was intended to do

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Speaker 1: two things. One reduced the cost of healthcare and to

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Speaker 1: make reduce the number of uninsured, you know, maybe even

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Speaker 1: eliminate the number of uninsured in America, right because we

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Speaker 1: have all these safety nets. The idea was that we're

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Speaker 1: going to be able to reduce greatly or eliminate the

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Speaker 1: uninsured and reduce the cost of healthcare. So the number

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Speaker 1: one promise that I thought was so interesting, and it

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Speaker 1: was it was political political or political facts. Lie of

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Speaker 1: the Year in the Live the Year was if you

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Speaker 1: like your health care, you can keep it. That Obama

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Speaker 1: said that over and over over again. That was that

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Speaker 1: was That might have been the biggest selling point. Hey,

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Speaker 1: if you don't want to do this, nothing's gonna change

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Speaker 1: for you. Everything's gonna be fine. If you like your

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Speaker 1: health care, you can keep it. How did that turn out? Well,

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Speaker 1: the latest data we have on that is twenty nineteen,

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Speaker 1: so it's three years old still. But as of nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty seven percent of workers lost that health care that

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Speaker 1: they had that they liked, eight seven percent. So practically everybody, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I would I would be shocked if it's not over now,

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Speaker 1: but I just couldn't find anything recently on it. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: basically everybody's lost the health care that they were promised

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Speaker 1: they could keep. Am I wrong? My memory is that

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Speaker 1: my deductibles were never even close to this before Obamacare

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Speaker 1: came along. A deductibles. Yeah, so you know promise promised

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Speaker 1: number two, right or promised number I guess promise number

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Speaker 1: two would have been the cost of health care will

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Speaker 1: go down. And so I even I even linked it

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Speaker 1: here becau as you can. You can google this and

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Speaker 1: find it anywhere. Uh. Barack Obama said repeatedly, once we

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Speaker 1: passed this in the law, the cost of healthcare is

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Speaker 1: going to go down by two thousand, five hundred dollars

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Speaker 1: per family. So when we're looking at healthcare, we gotta

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Speaker 1: look at a minimum of two things on cost. One

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Speaker 1: is premium. So what if premiums done well? The average

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Speaker 1: premium in two thousand nine, before the passage of Obamacare

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Speaker 1: was thirteen thousand and seventy five dollars. The average premium

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Speaker 1: for a family today is twenty four dollars. That's a

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Speaker 1: seventy increase. Now that's just premium, Jack, You started with deductibles,

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Speaker 1: as we know, those are very important too, because that's

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Speaker 1: what you pay when you show up at the office.

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Speaker 1: So the average deductible in two thousand nine was just

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Speaker 1: over a thousand dollars. Today that's only gone up sixty

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Speaker 1: eight percent to seventeen hundred dollars per person. Not that's

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Speaker 1: one's not. So that's per person, which is important because

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Speaker 1: the per family. Yeah, that is that. Yeah, that's absolutely

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Speaker 1: incredible because I I lived my life like most people were.

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Speaker 1: He didn't hardly pay that much attention to your deductible. Well,

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Speaker 1: now it's a very very big deal unless you have

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Speaker 1: a pretty bad health situation your way into the year

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Speaker 1: before it starts covering anything. That's right, that's right. So

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Speaker 1: on promise number one, costs are gonna go down. We're

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Speaker 1: gonna reign in the cost of healthcare. Just really important

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Speaker 1: for people to understand. Twelve years in, Uh, premiums are

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Speaker 1: deductibles are up. How you're you're an expert on the

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Speaker 1: dollars and cents of this and the math on this,

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Speaker 1: and you're really really good at it. Your your your

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Speaker 1: thing is not figuring out the political wins. But I

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Speaker 1: just kind of throw in, how in the hell is

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Speaker 1: this popular? I mean, how did he get more popular

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Speaker 1: as healthcare got more expensive? And that it needs to

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Speaker 1: be studied by polycide people all around the world. Uh,

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Speaker 1: what the hell? Yeah? I think I think a lot

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Speaker 1: of it is just the cult of the cult of

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Speaker 1: personality and the popularity of President Obama. You know, they

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Speaker 1: just they just they don't. People. This thing was, you know,

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Speaker 1: another thing we didn't even talked about prior to this,

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Speaker 1: But this thing was as a statute. It's now over

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Speaker 1: forty pages and regulations. Whoa forty thousand pages of regulations. Wow,

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Speaker 1: So you know, there's something like less than one percent

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Speaker 1: of us in the legal community to have read the statute.

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Speaker 1: None of us, zero of us have read all the

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Speaker 1: regulations because you can't. So they just don't know what's

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Speaker 1: in it. They don't know what it's done, They don't

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Speaker 1: know all of the circumstances. So you couldn't keep your

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Speaker 1: plan plans of darn near doubled in cost. But the

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Speaker 1: other you know, and to give it it's fair do um,

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Speaker 1: it did cover more people now, I think I think

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Speaker 1: it's arguable that it's underperformed in that category. But the

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Speaker 1: numbers on that are in two thousand nine, when we

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Speaker 1: passed this into law, we had fifty million uninsured, and

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Speaker 1: as of today, the best estimates are that in the

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Speaker 1: United States we have thirty one million uninsured, and the

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Speaker 1: most experts agree that twenty to twenty four million people

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Speaker 1: have do now have coverage due to Obamacare. But It's

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Speaker 1: also important to remember a bunch of those people, maybe

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Speaker 1: as many as half, we're funneled into Medicaid because that

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Speaker 1: was cheaper, and Medicaid is the coverage we've talked about

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Speaker 1: here on the show before, where university studies have shown

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Speaker 1: that having Medicaid might be worse than having no coverage

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Speaker 1: at all because it's so few doctors in the care

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Speaker 1: is so poor in that system overall. So if you're

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Speaker 1: going to give Obamacare any credit at all, you could say, well,

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Speaker 1: it almost cut the number of uninsured in half. It

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Speaker 1: cut it, Okay, how about weight times for the average

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Speaker 1: person out there. Yeah, wait times are a little harder

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Speaker 1: to get at because the studies are done not as frequently.

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Speaker 1: But the best analysis on this I've seen just looked

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Speaker 1: at the difference from seventeen, which was kind of the

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Speaker 1: prime hit of Obamacare, and that was a pretty significant

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Speaker 1: increase because wait times in the number of days went

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Speaker 1: up thirty percent from eighteen days to get a primary

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Speaker 1: care visit in twoteen to twenty four. Seen more importantly

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Speaker 1: on that topic, I feel like i feel like I've

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Speaker 1: noticed that I r L also in my real life

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Speaker 1: where I've got to make an appointment for me or

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Speaker 1: my kids. It's like shocking to me when when it's

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Speaker 1: going to be and I didn't you used to be,

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Speaker 1: you know, fairly quick, and now it's like what not

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Speaker 1: till not a different month? Well, and then that's that's

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Speaker 1: another good point. Does I just looked at primary care

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Speaker 1: visits for this to keep it simple, So primary care

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Speaker 1: visitor up at least thirty per cent. But if you

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Speaker 1: want to talk about specialists or mental health experts, you

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Speaker 1: could be three to six months out if you can

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Speaker 1: even find an expert that will, for example, treat certain

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Speaker 1: mental health issues for children that some of those people

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Speaker 1: just don't exist because because the way this system works,

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Speaker 1: the reimbursements within the government care programs are so incredibly

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Speaker 1: low that people opt out of those fields or they

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Speaker 1: just say, oh no, I no longer do insurance for

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Speaker 1: that kind of care. So I know you got into

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Speaker 1: I know you got into how and because I want

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Speaker 1: to get to the before we run out of time,

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Speaker 1: I know you got into how inflation you know, at

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Speaker 1: the current eight nine percent or whatever is going to

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Speaker 1: affect all this. Well, then that's a frightening thing because

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Speaker 1: over the last fifteen the seventeen years, healthcare has run

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Speaker 1: at three times the rate of typical inflation. So, you know,

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Speaker 1: when we've had these two percent inflation years, healthcare has

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Speaker 1: been running at six. I fear that when now that

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Speaker 1: we're looking at eight percent inflation annually. I shudder to

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Speaker 1: think at what this is going to do to healthcare now.

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Speaker 1: I have not seen anything coming out at you know,

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Speaker 1: year over year premium increases, but it's not going to

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Speaker 1: surprise me if we see the ten increases this because

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Speaker 1: it's just so much there's so much more pressure on

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Speaker 1: healthcare than there is on general goods and all that

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Speaker 1: stuff that's that's causing inflation, and the regular economy is

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Speaker 1: just going to be exacerbated in healthcare with the technology

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Speaker 1: we rely on from overseas, pay raises, etcetera. Man, healthcare

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Speaker 1: has gotten expensive and complicated. And before we jump into that,

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Speaker 1: how about the horror out of Ukraine. You following this

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Speaker 1: very closely, Yeah, I am Jack. It's it's it's hard

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Speaker 1: to be, it's hard to believe, but it I just

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Speaker 1: think in the you know, as a as a guy

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Speaker 1: who doesn't follow that stuff and follows healthcare and the

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Speaker 1: way people have made decisions around economics within a country.

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Speaker 1: It just it just really shows that, you know, human

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Speaker 1: nature doesn't change. Governments don't change that. What what you know,

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Speaker 1: megalomaniacs out there. Countries do things in their own self

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Speaker 1: interest and uh power given to these to these leaders

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Speaker 1: in in unchecked ways, it results in horrors, whether you're

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Speaker 1: talking about war or healthcare or uh, you know, inflation

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Speaker 1: or whatever. I mean, I'm just the way I roll, Jack.

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Speaker 1: I got the debt clock up on my desktop all

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Speaker 1: the time. I just take a look at it. Right now,

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Speaker 1: we're at five hundred and six thousand dollars of unfunded

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Speaker 1: liabilities per citizen. So if each of us cuts a

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Speaker 1: check for five hundred six thousand, US will be solvent.

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Speaker 1: But it's not so simple because last year of citizens

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Speaker 1: didn't pay federal taxes. So if you break that down

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Speaker 1: to each taxpayer of the mill doll to make this

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Speaker 1: country solvent again, it's just it's never gonna happen. And

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Speaker 1: that the problem becomes when how how much longer can

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Speaker 1: we stave off this collapse? And I don't I don't

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Speaker 1: know the answer, I mean, and I don't think anybody

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Speaker 1: nobody knows. But there is a limit there is a limit.

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Speaker 1: If a limit, if something can't go on, it will stop.

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Speaker 1: I don't remember what principle that is who said it,

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Speaker 1: but it is true if something can't continue, and you

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Speaker 1: can't continue to outspend what you make forever. So if

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Speaker 1: something can't go on, it will stop. And it's just

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Speaker 1: a matter of when and uh, we'll see. And speaking

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Speaker 1: of giving more power, you have been saying for years

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Speaker 1: on the show before when we were arguing over whether

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Speaker 1: Obamacare should be a thing, that this was gonna lead

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Speaker 1: us toward some sort of government takeover of healthcare like

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Speaker 1: they have in Great Britain, which I looked up the

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Speaker 1: headline I knew I had seen a couple of weeks ago.

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Speaker 1: Private healthcare boom in Great Britain. Adds to fear of

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Speaker 1: two tier system in the UK because so many people

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Speaker 1: are dissatisfied with the government healthcare that if you can

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Speaker 1: afford it at all, you pay for the private stuff.

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Speaker 1: Are we headed towards some sort of private our government

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Speaker 1: takeover of healthcare? Do you still think that's the map

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Speaker 1: we're on? Yeah? You know. I I've said publicly on

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Speaker 1: your show and other places for I think four or

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Speaker 1: five years now, that I do think we will be

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Speaker 1: fully socialized. Five probably is the year because just because

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Speaker 1: of the way elections work and cycles go, I just

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Speaker 1: think that's probably about the right time that this will happen. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, some of my some of my colleagues, and

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Speaker 1: it would point out that we're already socialized. You know.

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Speaker 1: That was another another fact I wanted to share with

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Speaker 1: you on Obamacare. When Obamacare passed, of us healthcare costs

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Speaker 1: were borne by taxpayers, and people think that's high, But

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Speaker 1: you've got to remember, it's Medicare plus Medicaid plus the

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Speaker 1: v A, plus state and local and federal workers. And

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Speaker 1: so when you cobbled all that together, it was So

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Speaker 1: that was twelve years ago. Today it's seventy one in

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Speaker 1: blue states and sixty federally. So you look at that

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Speaker 1: and say, well, gee, aren't we already socialized? You're only

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Speaker 1: arguing over yeah, the last third exactly, and so uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, you could make an argument that we are

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Speaker 1: socialized now. I I have firmly thought that Obamacare is

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Speaker 1: going to lead to people talk about medicare for all.

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Speaker 1: But that's the old Martin Bailey thing where they talk

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Speaker 1: about that, but then they'll settle for something less st back,

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Speaker 1: and I think, what what this will end up being

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Speaker 1: as Medicaid for all? And I know healthcare geeks don't

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Speaker 1: really know the difference the differences. Medicare is what we

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Speaker 1: all pay into for ourselves as we age. That's the

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Speaker 1: that's the stuff we get when we're over sixty five.

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Speaker 1: So it's it's typically better, it's typically a much better

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Speaker 1: reimbursement for the provider, meaning a lot more doctor will

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Speaker 1: take better care. And it's and it's an effective system

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Speaker 1: for the most part. I mean, you'll you'll talk to

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Speaker 1: hospitals and doctors and say, oh, yeah, we can make

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Speaker 1: money on Medicare all day long. But the problem is

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Speaker 1: Medicare costs significantly more than Medicaid, more than double um.

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Speaker 1: Now some of that's due to age, but some of

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Speaker 1: it's also just due to reimbursements. So when they talk

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Speaker 1: about Medicare for All, what they'll ultimately do is slide

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Speaker 1: back into something like what's happened with Obamacare, and it'll

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Speaker 1: default into be like sort of a Medicaid for all.

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Speaker 1: Well that Medicaid again, Now we're talking about the system

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Speaker 1: that reimburses so little that it might even be better

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Speaker 1: to not have it at all. And I just think

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Speaker 1: that's where this is headed. But I do have some

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Speaker 1: good news, Jack, I do have some good dude. I

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Speaker 1: think in light of the fact that we've gone over

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Speaker 1: thirty trillion in debt and that we're now at more

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Speaker 1: than a million dollars of unfunded liability for taxpayer, I

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Speaker 1: just I think the economic collapse. I think the the

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Speaker 1: inflation and the serious trouble that we're going to be

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Speaker 1: in for with food shortages. I think that could change

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Speaker 1: the intestinal fortitude of the country. I think that we

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Speaker 1: could see people say no, no, no, no, no, we're

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Speaker 1: not taken on the additional thirty two trillion that it

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Speaker 1: would cost to provide universal healthcare. I hope you're right.

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Speaker 1: We're about out of time. I want to make sure

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Speaker 1: you pimp. What do you want people to follow you?

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Speaker 1: Your website? Twitter? Where do you want people to follow you?

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Benefit dash revolution dot com, Benefit dash Revolutions

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Speaker 1: my website. You can hit me on Twitter. I think

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Speaker 1: it's Benny Revolution on Twitter, or just google my name.

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Speaker 1: Craig got Walls is what you google. He's the smartest

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Speaker 1: guy out there on this stuff. Thanks for coming on

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Speaker 1: Craig got Walls frequently on the A One More Thing

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Speaker 1: podcast Jack. This is roughly the equivalent of carrying around

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Speaker 1: two hundred and twenty four slices of bacon in your body. Well, wait,

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Speaker 1: wait a minute, regular, what bacon ways of maajurement that

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Speaker 1: we all use? The Armstrong and Getting podcast. Hear it

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Speaker 1: on the I heart app or wherever you listen to podcasts.