Speaker 1: I guess I never thought I would be like someone
Speaker 1: who really was attached to the mainstream that much, which
Speaker 1: is funny, which is why I think I found the
Speaker 1: Brits quite an amazing but like an accelerated experience, because
Speaker 1: I never thought I wrote pop songs for the charts.
Speaker 2: Go hit it. Evening, folks, welcome to another new episode
Speaker 2: of Midnight Chats, our music interview podcast for late night listening.
Speaker 2: My name's Greg. I'm here with Stu. Stu, what is
Speaker 2: the big news in your world? Well, I've been moving house,
Speaker 2: so I've just mainly been a ball of stress. But
Speaker 2: I think I've turned a corner now now that I've moved,
Speaker 2: I'm feeling a lot better.
Speaker 3: We've had a very busy time here on the podcast
Speaker 3: as well. Thank you to everyone who listened to our
Speaker 3: Brian Eno episode last week. I did very well, including
Speaker 3: getting some shares on David Bowie's Instagram account, which was
Speaker 3: nice to see.
Speaker 2: This week, I've recorded.
Speaker 3: Two new episodes, one of which is going to be
Speaker 3: next week's episode. We're going to turn that one around
Speaker 3: quickly and we're going to hold onto the other one
Speaker 3: for a bit later down the line. But let's talk
Speaker 3: about tonight's episode, Greg, because you spoke to Griff, and
Speaker 3: I'll be honest, before I listened to this, I didn't
Speaker 3: know that much about Griff myself. I didn't know much
Speaker 3: about her background or what she's been up to. And
Speaker 3: in case there is anyone tuning in who is in
Speaker 3: a similar boat to that, tell us a bit about
Speaker 3: Griff herself, and also why you wanted to talk to her,
Speaker 3: because you've wanted to speak.
Speaker 2: To her for a while. Well, I've wanted to speak
Speaker 2: to Griff. I've been excited to meet Griff ever since
Speaker 2: I saw her performance on the brit Awards, which was
Speaker 2: back in twenty twenty one. She played her song black Hole,
Speaker 2: which is a pop banger, and I was just flawed
Speaker 2: because I don't remember a new artist ever delivering such
Speaker 2: like an accomplished, impactful performance at the Brits. Basically, she
Speaker 2: looked like she'd been doing this for like twenty years,
Speaker 2: and I just from that was like, wow, like this
Speaker 2: is somebody really really special. If you haven't seen that
Speaker 2: BRIT's performance, it is on YouTube. Griff says that she
Speaker 2: can't bear to watch it, but I've put a link
Speaker 2: in the show notes. If you haven't seen it and
Speaker 2: you can go and have a look at it, along
Speaker 2: with some of the other things that we mentioned in
Speaker 2: this conversation.
Speaker 3: I do remember that performance and how amazing it was,
Speaker 3: and for someone who is still so young as she
Speaker 3: is now, when she was talking to you, it really
Speaker 3: sounded like she's someone who just knows exactly what she
Speaker 3: wants to do.
Speaker 2: Oh definitely. I think she's twenty three now and she's
Speaker 2: super grounded. They didn't seem to be sort of you know,
Speaker 2: it wasn't anything kind of mechanical about her, if you
Speaker 2: know what I meant. So she was just really really
Speaker 2: open and just really really lovely to chat to. But
Speaker 2: the big news is that she's just announced her debut
Speaker 2: album and it's going to be coming out on the
Speaker 2: nineteenth of July, and it's called Vertigo. And she's announced
Speaker 2: a big tour later in the year, playing some massive venues.
Speaker 2: So that's exciting because like her show is immense as well,
Speaker 2: so it's basically it's going to be a big year
Speaker 2: for Griff. Here.
Speaker 3: It is then Greg talking with Griff on tonight's episode
Speaker 3: of Midnight Chats. If you're new to us here, welcome.
Speaker 3: If you've been here, before welcome back. Thank you for
Speaker 3: listening to Midnight Chats. We love making this podcast. If
Speaker 3: there's one thing you can really do to help us
Speaker 3: and to help the show is simply tell a friend
Speaker 3: force them to listen. That's the way that this podcast
Speaker 3: is going to grow and we're going to get more
Speaker 3: people listening to it. So if you are enjoying the episodes,
Speaker 3: please do tell your friends who like music all about
Speaker 3: it and join us on social media. We've sort of
Speaker 3: ditch TikTok to be honest, but we are on Instagram
Speaker 3: Midnight Chats Pod. There's lots of clips there. We're put
Speaker 3: some bits of Griff, there's some stuff from the Emo
Speaker 3: episode last week. Before that we had MGMT. We're trying
Speaker 3: to ramp that up a bit and have a bit
Speaker 3: of fun with it. So join us over there Midnight
Speaker 3: Chats Pod. For now, though, here is Griff on Tonight's
Speaker 3: episode of Midnight Chats.
Speaker 1: This will obviously exist in the world in a future time.
Speaker 1: But today is release date. Well no, I shouldn't probably
Speaker 1: say that, actually, but anyway, it's been a hectic day,
Speaker 1: but it's good feeling.
Speaker 2: I think we can say it's release day. It's fine.
Speaker 2: Because people will understand that we've done this in the past.
Speaker 2: We're speaking to our future selves. Yeah exactly, miss me too.
Speaker 2: You're going to be sharing it later on today.
Speaker 4: Yeah exactly.
Speaker 2: The release days feel exciting? Do they feel stressful?
Speaker 1: Do they feel I'm getting better at them?
Speaker 4: I don't love them. They're not fun.
Speaker 1: There's no part of me that wakes up and goes,
Speaker 1: oh yeah release day because they're stressful, and there's usually
Speaker 1: lots to do and you're usually just pretty nervous about
Speaker 1: how it's going to be received, and it's the moment
Speaker 1: where as song has been sitting on your laptop forages
Speaker 1: and then is out in the world.
Speaker 4: So yeah, fantastic, all and all. Happy to be here.
Speaker 2: What a start of the year that you've had though,
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four, Well, we're not far into it. You've
Speaker 2: packed it in.
Speaker 4: It's been busy. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So you celebrated New Year pretty much on stage
Speaker 2: in Australia, Is that right?
Speaker 4: Well researched.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I went to Australia twice in January, which is
Speaker 1: just suicidal.
Speaker 4: Really my god, I know.
Speaker 2: So what out there back again?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 2: How is your jet lag?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Brutal I mean I did so. I did a festival
Speaker 1: out there for New Years, which was fine. It's my
Speaker 1: first time ever in Australia. Came back, finished a bunch
Speaker 1: of music, then went back out to like Asia and
Speaker 1: Australia and then America and then here I am back.
Speaker 4: To release some music.
Speaker 2: On the upside, you must have seen pretty much every
Speaker 2: film that, like the airline has to offer, now, do
Speaker 2: you know?
Speaker 4: I try my best not too And I'm a sleeper.
Speaker 1: I can sleep anywhere on anything at any time of day,
Speaker 1: so I actually don't by the time I wake up,
Speaker 1: I haven't gotten around to like seeing the entertainment.
Speaker 2: I'm so jealous of that. So you can you could
Speaker 2: get on a pretty much and fall asleep.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, Like if you gave me fifteen minutes right now,
Speaker 1: I would probably be out so.
Speaker 2: Many artist to be listened to this going, Like, I'm
Speaker 2: so jealous because like the touring thing is had brutal
Speaker 2: and so like if you can catch a nap when
Speaker 2: you're in the airport, and.
Speaker 4: That's fine, yeah, it helps the jet.
Speaker 1: Like like usually I can usually be anywhere if I
Speaker 1: can just I can power up, if I can power
Speaker 1: up forty five minutes.
Speaker 4: I'm pretty good. Yeah, that's what my days look like.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So seeing in the New Year on stage, have
Speaker 2: you ever done anything? What's what would you have normally
Speaker 2: been doing?
Speaker 1: I probably would have been chilling with some girlfriends. I've
Speaker 1: never done New Year's abroad, let alone in a hot place.
Speaker 1: That was kind of freaky, but it was really nice.
Speaker 1: I was out there with Holly up Well, we happened
Speaker 1: to both be on the same lineup, so I think
Speaker 1: we just were like, let's buddy up.
Speaker 4: And be friends.
Speaker 1: So yeah, we got wasted and pop champagne on the stage,
Speaker 1: which was really fun. The footage is actually terrible though,
Speaker 1: because you can tell we're not party girls and we're
Speaker 1: absolutely amateurs. We were like, yeah, let's pop some champagne,
Speaker 1: and then when you look back, we clearly forgot to
Speaker 1: do the thumb over the thing, so we were essentially
Speaker 1: just pouring the bottle on all these cables.
Speaker 4: But it was nice.
Speaker 2: It's fun, but that's something you could get used to that,
Speaker 2: I mean, learning how to pop champagne, Like, yeah, I.
Speaker 4: Know, who would have thought I need to know that?
Speaker 4: I know.
Speaker 2: So after that, I mean, you, like you said you
Speaker 2: were in the Far East, doing some shows, and then
Speaker 2: you went to the States.
Speaker 1: I did Grammys, popped in not I wasn't at the
Speaker 1: actual Grammys. I went to an after party, which was
Speaker 1: like fun those things again, never been to a Grammy
Speaker 1: after party.
Speaker 4: Lots of famous people, was there? Yeah, that's fun.
Speaker 2: Any spots that you were like even outside of the
Speaker 2: music world, anybody who were just like, oh, I'm in
Speaker 2: the room with this person.
Speaker 1: That room was it was mainly music people, but it
Speaker 1: was just like, who was it. I'm trying to think, Uh,
Speaker 1: it was like really famous. I mean Ed Sheeran came down,
Speaker 1: He's pretty famous. Yes, I think was there. Barry Kergan,
Speaker 1: the actor, thought he was there. The guy in Selburn, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that was that was cool.
Speaker 4: Like Doo was there. Yeah. Lots of famous people. It's
Speaker 4: quite weird.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and some people that you actually know.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah that's true.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, nice like quickly say hi and then the
Speaker 1: music's so luge you can't even really talk.
Speaker 4: But yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So this year has been Is this going to
Speaker 2: be kind of typical of how this year pans out?
Speaker 2: Because you've you're like heading overseas to play like some
Speaker 2: big shows. You're no doubt kind of trying to continue
Speaker 2: to write music, you're sharing music, all this stuff going on.
Speaker 2: Is that the kind of you're switching modes a lot, right?
Speaker 4: Is that?
Speaker 2: How?
Speaker 4: Yeah? It does.
Speaker 1: It's weird now, I think being an artist because I
Speaker 1: don't know. To me when I went into this, I
Speaker 1: always understood an artist's job in cycles. So you tour
Speaker 1: and then you write, and then you promo, and those
Speaker 1: those cycles last for good lengths of time, whereas now
Speaker 1: it feels like you kind of have to do all
Speaker 1: of it at the same time and there's no mercy.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's like one day you've got your tour
Speaker 1: hair on, next day you've got your promo hair on
Speaker 1: and your social's hat on, and then next day you're
Speaker 1: trying to write. So yeah, it's all happening at the
Speaker 1: same time. But I'm excited. It's been a while since
Speaker 1: I've released music, so it's nice to be back in
Speaker 1: the flow of it.
Speaker 2: Definitely. Yeah, And we're going to talk about some of
Speaker 2: that music that you're you've shared recently. As we speak,
Speaker 2: it's it's Brits Week in the UK. Are you going
Speaker 2: this year? I am. I'm going to pop in, Yeah,
Speaker 2: pop in. I love what you say, popping. It's like
Speaker 2: as if we're going to sort of testa.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're just going to Tesco, pop in and see
Speaker 1: what the new kid, new kids on the block, you.
Speaker 2: Know, pick up some bits.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just wave to a few friends, take a photo,
Speaker 1: and then pop out.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, as I was kind of looking forward to
Speaker 2: chating you to you today, I was had went back
Speaker 2: and watched your BRIT's performance from twenty twenty World and
Speaker 2: oh god, does it make you feel of it?
Speaker 4: Like, yeah, that feels me the same nerves that I
Speaker 4: had at the time. I've never watched it since, have
Speaker 4: you not? Yeah? I think I watched it back once
Speaker 4: after my performance and then that was it.
Speaker 2: Can I Well, I want to tell you a story
Speaker 2: about what I was watching it that night because I
Speaker 2: felt I must be honest, I don't always watch the Brits,
Speaker 2: but I was watching that night.
Speaker 1: That seems like a choice since you're a music person,
Speaker 1: Is it because you don't go around to it because
Speaker 1: you like, I'm anti awards, I'm anti establishment?
Speaker 2: No, oh, I'm a bit anti establishment. I'd like to
Speaker 2: think of as that was establishing. No, just like I
Speaker 2: think sometimes sometimes I'm kind of like, yeah, I want
Speaker 2: to catch it. In other times I'll want to churning
Speaker 2: out of it. And I just remember, I mean, first off,
Speaker 2: that was a weird year because it was like I
Speaker 2: was really I think we were all feeling like super
Speaker 2: hungry for music and missing it because it was twenty
Speaker 2: twenty one, so we were like emerging from lockdowns and
Speaker 2: like COVID pandemic. So it had its own sort of
Speaker 2: surreal spin for those reasons. Yeah, but I just remember,
Speaker 2: I remember your performance. I was sat, I was sat
Speaker 2: on the sofa with my wife and you came on
Speaker 2: and I was like, my god, like you are it
Speaker 2: was so assured, and it was just so like it
Speaker 2: was amazing, like composed, and I was just considering that, like,
Speaker 2: you know, what a platform, what I like, surreal moment
Speaker 2: that must have been to find yourself in and like
Speaker 2: probably undoubtedly super nerve wracking. Yeah, it was as if
Speaker 2: you'd played the Brits like twenty years in a row.
Speaker 4: Oh that's really kind Yeah, so what.
Speaker 2: So but you suggested that probably what was actually good,
Speaker 2: what was actually that.
Speaker 1: Time is Oh, it was just so a lot because
Speaker 1: it's again I think it, like you said, it felt
Speaker 1: really extreme because of COVID. So I've sat in my
Speaker 1: bedroom for two years and then suddenly everyone was like, right,
Speaker 1: go on, like and We've all grown up watching the
Speaker 1: Brits and I've seen the most iconic performances.
Speaker 4: So I was just like really nervous.
Speaker 1: And then you're also performing for like a room full
Speaker 1: of everyone you look up to, and you know that
Speaker 1: there's however many people watching online and you know it's
Speaker 1: going to exist online forever. It was just it's like
Speaker 1: the worst recipe for social anxiety. I remember waking up
Speaker 1: the next day just like feeling so sick and looking
Speaker 1: like dreading looking at my phone, but also like torturing
Speaker 1: myself by like trying to look at all the feedback
Speaker 1: on it. But no, I am proud of it and
Speaker 1: I am happy with it, but yeah, I can't watch
Speaker 1: it back.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah you should be. I was like, holy shit,
Speaker 2: that is incredible, Like what a performance, because I think, yeah,
Speaker 2: the Brits produces like those iconic moments, and sometimes they
Speaker 2: come from Adele and one spotlight and a piano, and
Speaker 2: other times they come from an artist that's like going
Speaker 2: to have been like new to a lot of people.
Speaker 2: And that's that is one thing that I do appreciate
Speaker 2: about the Brits, but I think that was a particularly
Speaker 2: weird year because it was it was like not even
Speaker 2: half full, right, because it was social distancing and so
Speaker 2: like all the artists were there sat like little.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was really strange.
Speaker 1: We were all really far away from a table not
Speaker 1: too much, probably the same size as this.
Speaker 4: But I guess it's my only real experience of the Brits.
Speaker 1: It will be interesting to go this year where we're
Speaker 1: properly free again, because I don't I haven't experienced the
Speaker 1: Brits and that kind of hey there you feeling where
Speaker 1: everyone's just getting drunk on the floor with Jack Whitehall
Speaker 1: just taking the make out of everyone, you.
Speaker 4: Know what I mean.
Speaker 1: I'm excited to experience that kind of Brits because it's
Speaker 1: it's been pretty covidly since so.
Speaker 2: Yeah it has. And that that night was that when
Speaker 2: you first got to meet Taylor Swift.
Speaker 4: Yeah it was. That was just like the cherry on
Speaker 4: the cake at the end of the night.
Speaker 1: After I've done all the like again, first real red
Speaker 1: carpet experience, first real like press experience, did the big performance,
Speaker 1: got the award, sat down, Taylor go gets her award.
Speaker 1: She kind of like said my name in the mic,
Speaker 1: just to say hi. That was scary enough. And then
Speaker 1: the night had ended and we were walking back to
Speaker 1: our dressing room and then my manager kind of took
Speaker 1: me on a detour and he was like, time to
Speaker 1: meet Taylor, and I was like, oh my god, and
Speaker 1: so yeah, yeah, I went into her dressing room, said hi,
Speaker 1: you chated for a bit, and she was really lovely.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she was eating some chips.
Speaker 4: She was eating chips.
Speaker 2: Offered me a chip, did she Yeah?
Speaker 1: It was lovely because people don't eat at those events,
Speaker 1: so I was relieved to see a whole rider full
Speaker 1: of chips.
Speaker 2: It's great, yeah, amazing, and like yeah, I mean it's
Speaker 2: it's not just like big artists co signs and another
Speaker 2: emerging artist. You know, that's a night nice to have
Speaker 2: or a nice feeding because Taylor, since like your real
Speaker 2: kind of formative years of discovering music, has been like
Speaker 2: an important artist to you and something a big influence,
Speaker 2: like her songwriting and everything else. So regardless of whether
Speaker 2: it's Taylor Swift or if Taylor Swift didn't have billions
Speaker 2: of fans, if it was just like your songwriting idol,
Speaker 2: that would have been like an important moment.
Speaker 4: Right, definitely. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there are two layers to it where it's like,
Speaker 1: first you're being like recognized by someone who's completely at
Speaker 1: the peak of their game, but also yeah, being recognized
Speaker 1: by someone who I just really who raised my creative journey,
Speaker 1: I guess, And I think she's obviously renowned for raising
Speaker 1: a new generation of songwriters. But yeah, I was definitely
Speaker 1: there at eight years old listening to Fearless, So yeah,
Speaker 1: she's pretty amazing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's doing about a billion gigs at Wembley Stadium.
Speaker 4: This insane. It's like, how do you even get that big?
Speaker 4: It's wild?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, have you got ticket?
Speaker 4: Do you know what? Confession? I don't, No, I know,
Speaker 4: I just I don't know the whole Like.
Speaker 1: I never was never raised going to gigs, so I
Speaker 1: don't really have the gig culture in me.
Speaker 4: And then I didn't This whole swifty cult is a
Speaker 4: new thing. I thought. I didn't realize.
Speaker 1: I don't know, this is like a new thing, isn't
Speaker 1: it kind of the level of cult that swifties are.
Speaker 1: I was just on my way to school listening to
Speaker 1: Taylor Swift, obsessed with it. But I didn't realize there
Speaker 1: was like so much commitment with it. So and also
Speaker 1: I don't know. In my head, I just will be there.
Speaker 4: I don't know. I'm just putting that out there. I'll
Speaker 4: find my way there, but I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm not organized enough to do all the cues and
Speaker 1: the pre orders and the pre sales and fight people
Speaker 1: for it.
Speaker 4: I don't know. I'll just say a prayer and hopefully
Speaker 4: I'll make it.
Speaker 2: You're just going to have to I'm just gonna have
Speaker 2: to be one of the supporting artists.
Speaker 1: Well, Taylor, if you're listening, I need I need to
Speaker 1: see the show. So if you don't mind, just maybe
Speaker 1: instead of just a ticket maybe, Yeah, And anyway, I'll
Speaker 1: be there.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I want to.
Speaker 2: I want to talk about kind of background and your upbringing.
Speaker 2: You're from King's Langley, King's Langley, which is a sleepy village. Well,
Speaker 2: I grew up in Welling Garden City Fellow.
Speaker 1: Half Yeah, exactly in the suburbs, Northwest Suburbs.
Speaker 2: Exactly, not too far away for people that don't know.
Speaker 4: For everyone that does, nobody knows exactly.
Speaker 2: Kings Lanley kind of like punches in terms of like
Speaker 2: Anthony Joshuas from kings Lanley.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we've got one or two claim to fames, Anthony Joshua.
Speaker 4: I can't remember if there's any others.
Speaker 1: And I guess we've got the Watford football team, which
Speaker 1: Alton John has made famous.
Speaker 4: We've got Harry Potter studios.
Speaker 1: In Watford been no, No, I've never been in. And
Speaker 1: also are they claimed to famous that?
Speaker 4: I think?
Speaker 1: I think tale has it that the Game of Thrones
Speaker 1: writer or something was on the train past kings Langley
Speaker 1: and that's why it's somewhere in Game of Thrones is.
Speaker 4: Called kings Landing.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, I could.
Speaker 4: Be chatting absolute shit, but I think that's the rumor.
Speaker 2: Yeah, King's Landley's doing all right. And then yeah, and
Speaker 2: so yeah, you are like one of you one of
Speaker 2: the most famous people to ever come out of Kingsland.
Speaker 1: I mean I think that's I think the population is
Speaker 1: about five thousand people, so I don't know how impressive
Speaker 1: that is, but yeah, yeah, I'll take it.
Speaker 2: For everyone else. Probably most people listening to this just
Speaker 2: describe your kind of King's Langley, kind of sleepy village,
Speaker 2: like very quaint, like beautiful little place.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's pretty English countryside. I mean it's
Speaker 1: weird because it's proximity to London. It's like only forty
Speaker 1: five minutes out, but it definitely feels like countryside. There's farms,
Speaker 1: there's cows, there's old people, there's pubs, a lot of grass,
Speaker 1: and that's about it.
Speaker 4: Like the churches.
Speaker 2: Do you love a country walk?
Speaker 4: Yeah? I love country walk yeaheah.
Speaker 1: Country walk in a country pub is kind of all
Speaker 1: there is to do, to be honest, So yeah, not
Speaker 1: loads going on. Didn't actually resented it growing up. Not
Speaker 1: diverse or very white, very middle class, so we definitely
Speaker 1: and again the population is not very big, so I
Speaker 1: think as a family, we definitely stuck out when we went.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because you're like, in terms of your family heritage,
Speaker 2: you've got like you've got Jamaican, you've got Chinese. First off,
Speaker 2: I would bet cuisine and like culture in your house
Speaker 2: is so rich with so many great things.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it's weird.
Speaker 1: I only I only realize it when I get asked
Speaker 1: about it and talk about it in this context, because
Speaker 1: when you're growing up, it's just that's just home, so
Speaker 1: you know you're not there going oh wow.
Speaker 4: It was such a culturally rich upbringing.
Speaker 1: You're there going like I don't fit in and my
Speaker 1: home is weird. But yeah, I means Mum's pretty typical
Speaker 1: Chinese tiger mother. They're not quiet breeds of mothers and
Speaker 1: you know, very hard on discipline. Dad is again pretty
Speaker 1: stereotypically chilled out Jamaican Dad, two older brothers. Mum cooked most,
Speaker 1: so it's mainly a lot of Asian food. But I
Speaker 1: think Dad really brought in the music and the creativity,
Speaker 1: and I think music is such a rich part of
Speaker 1: Black culture, so I think that was ingrained in us
Speaker 1: from a very young age. And then we also started
Speaker 1: fostering when I was about eight, so then there was
Speaker 1: a lot of yeah, kind of foster siblings in the
Speaker 1: house as well, so it was mad.
Speaker 2: I have friends who are foster parents, and for me,
Speaker 2: it's like one of the most generous things that anybody
Speaker 2: can ever do. To be honest, I think it's such
Speaker 2: a warm hearted and generous gift to be able to
Speaker 2: like to welcome somebody into your family and make them
Speaker 2: one of your own.
Speaker 4: It's a lot.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's not for the week or what's
Speaker 1: the saying, not for the lighthearted. It's a twenty four
Speaker 1: hour job, do you know what I mean? It's not Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's definitely not like you a few hours of charity
Speaker 1: and then give them back. It's like they're there to
Speaker 1: live with you and be part of the family.
Speaker 4: So yeah, yeah, you get stuck in.
Speaker 2: Where did music become like such a big deal for you?
Speaker 2: Was it almost? Was it like something you had for
Speaker 2: you that was your time, that was like a that
Speaker 2: you could concentrate on, like a bit of a refuge.
Speaker 2: Is that how it emerged as something that you you
Speaker 2: got so engrossed with.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it was that. I think I grew up.
Speaker 4: We grew up in church as well, so that was
Speaker 4: a big thing.
Speaker 1: And like I just remember, like obviously the sermons were
Speaker 1: so boring and the music was the fun bit. So
Speaker 1: every time there was the praise and worship, it was
Speaker 1: cool and it was and I think I was fortunate
Speaker 1: to grow up in a church that had quite modern
Speaker 1: music as well, so it wasn't like hymns it was
Speaker 1: banned and it was like.
Speaker 4: Proper pop chorus it is almost.
Speaker 1: So I think that was like my first realization that
Speaker 1: I really enjoyed music, and then yeah, it became something
Speaker 1: that I think I felt good at doing and I enjoyed. Also,
Speaker 1: my parents were so the combination of like immigrant ethnic
Speaker 1: parents means that like, I don't know, it was very
Speaker 1: strict no TV in the week, and then also very
Speaker 1: Christian parents meant that even the TV we were allowed
Speaker 1: to watch was very sheltered. So in terms of entertainment
Speaker 1: and like what you do with your spare time as
Speaker 1: a kid, it was like, well, I just played the
Speaker 1: piano then for hours, and so that became, yeah, like
Speaker 1: a safe place for me, I think, especially in like school,
Speaker 1: and I didn't feel that good.
Speaker 4: About myself, and I don't think I realized.
Speaker 1: It's only in reflection and in hindsight that I realized
Speaker 1: that I didn't really feel secure or belonging in school,
Speaker 1: and I think I kind of used music as a
Speaker 1: bit of a safe space for that.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I think people identified that in your music
Speaker 2: as well and gravitate towards it. So like you're sharing
Speaker 2: in that respect to things really important, hope.
Speaker 4: So yeah, I.
Speaker 2: Want to kind of like bring things into into the
Speaker 2: present a bit more, or rather like bring things into
Speaker 2: the past couple of years a little bit more. Because
Speaker 2: we talked a bit about the Brits, like you're kind
Speaker 2: of there was. It was incredibly like accelerated everything that
Speaker 2: happened for you around like you know two thousand, two
Speaker 2: thousand and one, two thousand thousand.
Speaker 4: And one when I was born, that was accelerated. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: I wasn't in the world that I was. It was
Speaker 4: a pretty crazy experience actually, it was yeah, yeah, the world.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, here I am.
Speaker 2: This is big. It's fast, it's fast.
Speaker 1: Here we go and dad, yeah exactly, yeah.
Speaker 4: No, no, yeah, I know what you're saying.
Speaker 2: Around twenty twenty twenty one, you there was just there
Speaker 2: was so much going on, like you know, you were
Speaker 2: kind of taking your first steps in music and then
Speaker 2: very quickly like finding yourself on some like massive stages.
Speaker 2: In terms of the supporting Coldplay on tour, going on
Speaker 2: the Future Nostalgia tour, we do a leaper getting to
Speaker 2: play with they'd shearing like, how did you find those
Speaker 2: adjusting to those experiences stadiums and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: It was really intense, if I'm totally honest again, coming
Speaker 1: out a few years of COVID and then never have
Speaker 1: toured before and then straight onto a tour bus. I
Speaker 1: mean most artists will talk about how brutal touring is,
Speaker 1: and so to kind of go straight into it on
Speaker 1: that scale was a lot.
Speaker 4: It was a lot to learn.
Speaker 1: There's so much, so much of touring that there's no
Speaker 1: rule book on then no one gives you any warning
Speaker 1: of It's like down to the relentlessness of just being
Speaker 1: around people every day, you know, and building your team
Speaker 1: and like waking up to your like you know, your
Speaker 1: back line guy and your drama and in the tour bus,
Speaker 1: and then performing every night, and just the resilience around
Speaker 1: that and just like vocal training and performance and also
Speaker 1: to engage a crowd.
Speaker 4: And then also like the.
Speaker 1: Other side of it is that you don't make any
Speaker 1: money really, so then that's the whole thing. And then
Speaker 1: just being away from home and being away from family.
Speaker 4: It was.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I definitely felt like I was kind of in
Speaker 1: in boot camp for touring very quickly.
Speaker 2: Did you bring any mementos back from many of those
Speaker 2: those tours?
Speaker 1: I guess the one that came to mind is like
Speaker 1: sitting when I sat down with Chris Martin and listened
Speaker 1: to the music. I still have kind of the notes
Speaker 1: that he wrote down about all my songs and he
Speaker 1: wrote a lovely little letter just to encourage me. So
Speaker 1: that's something I'll always have. But otherwise otherwise, I don't know.
Speaker 1: It's also so lame. But because we take so much
Speaker 1: stuff on our phones, and I feel like all my
Speaker 1: memories are just like on there.
Speaker 4: That's such a like gen Z thing to say.
Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, since you bring it up. Obviously, you
Speaker 2: went on tour we Coldplay. You got to spend some
Speaker 2: time with Chris Martin when you when you went to
Speaker 2: record Astronaut. I've met Chris Martin before. He's always seem
Speaker 2: very yeah, like it was very like warm and like
Speaker 2: very like humble and sensitive and quite generous guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: And so what was your what was your experience liked?
Speaker 2: Was was he encouraging? What how did he Because he's
Speaker 2: like very collaborative and I'm always interested to hear of
Speaker 2: like what artists are like in that mode, because some
Speaker 2: people are better at giving advice or encouragement or feedback
Speaker 2: than others, and like you kind of yeah, I don't
Speaker 2: know what Chris Martin's like in that scenario.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was pretty pretty nuts.
Speaker 1: I mean, I I was, I mean, I constantly felt
Speaker 1: guilty that I was taking up too much of his
Speaker 1: time because it was so generous of him, Like firstly,
Speaker 1: like him offering to listen to music. I just thought
Speaker 1: he was being polite, and then it actually happened, and
Speaker 1: that whole day I just was like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: this is so not embarrassing, but like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: he's got so many things to do. He's Chris Martin.
Speaker 1: He doesn't have an evening to spend listening to my music.
Speaker 1: But that was really he was really encouraging, and I
Speaker 1: think he.
Speaker 4: Read me really well.
Speaker 1: Like I was listening to the music so nervous, like
Speaker 1: I literally couldn't make any eye contact. I was staring
Speaker 1: at the ground. Stopped the music. He's like, chill, this
Speaker 1: is amazing. Like he was so encouraging in the right moments,
Speaker 1: and I think he really it's amazing how he switches
Speaker 1: from like super social Chris Martin and then also switches
Speaker 1: straight into like music Chris Martin, and then suddenly speaking
Speaker 1: that language and giving such helpful music feedback, like that's
Speaker 1: the chorus, even though that you think that's your middle light,
Speaker 1: that's your chorus, or like that's actually the title of
Speaker 1: the song, even though you think that's the title of
Speaker 1: the song that like that kind of perspective was really
Speaker 1: really helpful, and so yeah, it was crazy, but it's
Speaker 1: also I don't know, I felt like the whole time
Speaker 1: I was just trying to not think about the fact
Speaker 1: that I was in the studio with Chris Martin. But
Speaker 1: I'm sure then coming across like really really fucking weird.
Speaker 1: But I don't know, because I like, just be cool,
Speaker 1: be cool. But then I sometimes I'm like, maybe I
Speaker 1: was too cool and maybe I needed to be more
Speaker 1: like I don't know, I'm such a in my head person.
Speaker 4: But no, he was I mean, yeah.
Speaker 2: He was amazing, and he left you the message of encouragement.
Speaker 2: He wrote something for you, like a kind of like
Speaker 2: a little letter or something. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, we sat down and listened to a lot of
Speaker 1: songs and so he was like, right, let's start getting
Speaker 1: getting like, you know, pen and paper. So he was like,
Speaker 1: you write down your favorite songs. I'll write my down
Speaker 1: my favorite songs. And then just at the end, he
Speaker 1: just wrote a nice little note just to say that
Speaker 1: the album's great, the music's great, and it's going to
Speaker 1: be great, which.
Speaker 2: Is nice, amazing. That's gotta be framed somewhere right.
Speaker 1: I know, I know, I actually found it like crumbled.
Speaker 1: I thought I'd lost it and I said, oh my god,
Speaker 1: no way have I lost the note. And then I
Speaker 1: found it like the bottom of a tope bag amongst
Speaker 1: a load of other touring shit. So no, I know, terrible.
Speaker 1: So now I've like put it on my side. I
Speaker 1: need to put it in a.
Speaker 2: Frame, definitely. Yeah, that one needs to go in the
Speaker 2: in the memory box.
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly exactly.
Speaker 2: Let's talk about your new music, miss Me Too. You
Speaker 2: released not too long ago. Love that track and it's
Speaker 2: kind of you described it as sort of something that
Speaker 2: came about in this sense of like rediscovering or questioning
Speaker 2: what it means to sort of come out of adolescents
Speaker 2: and just sort of reshaping who you are. Make it
Speaker 2: like kind of just trying to connect with that sense again.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, it's funny.
Speaker 1: Now when I talk about what the song's about, I'm like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, it's I hope it doesn't come across
Speaker 1: in a really cheesy way, because it wasn't. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: was a song about wanting to find yourself. I think
Speaker 1: it's it's more like.
Speaker 4: I think along long the long old road of life.
Speaker 4: I don't know. You do kind of lose.
Speaker 1: Fragments of yourself, whether it's in relationships or time periods,
Speaker 1: or you've lived in one place and you move, you know,
Speaker 1: you lose bits of yourself. And I think it's just
Speaker 1: about kind of retracing those steps and figuring out where
Speaker 1: it is you lost those bits. And sometimes it's good
Speaker 1: to lose a bit of yourself, and sometimes there's actually
Speaker 1: a sense of yourself that you really need to get back.
Speaker 1: And I think that's kind of what, yeah, what the
Speaker 1: song's about. And that's why I love that the production
Speaker 1: is super high energy and hopeful, because even that the
Speaker 1: lyric is quite sad, I think there is a sense
Speaker 1: of hope where it's just like there's a sense of
Speaker 1: searching for yourself again.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you shared it amongst a group of songs,
Speaker 2: a collection of songs that make up Volume two of
Speaker 2: They're to goa to write those songs that might write
Speaker 2: and thinking you booked out some different airbnbs, and that's
Speaker 2: just because in the past you've done so much. You're
Speaker 2: writing at home in the space that you've created your
Speaker 2: like home studio.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, So I think I think there were a
Speaker 1: few things. I suddenly felt pressure to write, which is
Speaker 1: a feeling I've never had with writing, because writing was
Speaker 1: always for me. And then like post Brits and everything,
Speaker 1: everyone was like, where's the album. I'm like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: I've been on tour, and so that dynamic was there.
Speaker 1: So I think being in Airbnb's was me almost trying
Speaker 1: to trick my brain into feeling like I was in
Speaker 1: a low pressure environment, you know, because I didn't want
Speaker 1: the label to put me out a big, fancy studio.
Speaker 1: I'd be so conscious of how much it costs and
Speaker 1: the time and what I'm how productive it is that
Speaker 1: I almost wouldn't tell the label when I'm going away
Speaker 1: to write because it's it's better. I don't want people
Speaker 1: asking me, you know, from my homework at the end
Speaker 1: of the day.
Speaker 4: And then also for some reason, I think I was
Speaker 4: I always used.
Speaker 1: To be able to make music at home and make
Speaker 1: loads of noise at home, not feeling like I was
Speaker 1: being heard too much, and I think it was there
Speaker 1: was the element of just like my mum's so busy,
Speaker 1: my dad's out of work, my brothers and boys, they
Speaker 1: don't care like the screaming kids like I could just
Speaker 1: I could blast a song, and honestly, I would come
Speaker 1: out and it would be so hectic outside of the
Speaker 1: house in the house that it just didn't matter. Whereas
Speaker 1: I think from COVID, things were so focused and intense,
Speaker 1: and Dad suddenly working from home and we had some
Speaker 1: kid changes, I suddenly just felt very self conscious about
Speaker 1: making noise in the house. So I just got I
Speaker 1: knew I couldn't right in at my family home. So
Speaker 1: that's kind of why I started just booking little airbnbs.
Speaker 4: And there's a fun feature on it on.
Speaker 1: The desktop version where you can, if you just scroll
Speaker 1: a little bit, you can filter in where a piano is.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I know.
Speaker 1: So that's all I do. Really, I just go on.
Speaker 1: When I knew when i'd get back in between tours
Speaker 1: and I knew I had like maybe two weeks, I
Speaker 1: would just put the piano filter on and find one
Speaker 1: that felt like it wasn't going to blow the budget,
Speaker 1: and then drive a few hours and then like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I hope it was tuned, and like.
Speaker 4: Come back to the kitchen.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: No.
Speaker 1: I would send a message being like, HI, just checking
Speaker 1: the piano's tuned, and then yeah, I'd always like get
Speaker 1: there like immediately get there, unload my car from all
Speaker 1: my music equipment, put on some music, and then like
Speaker 1: reshuffle the house and like because if the piano is
Speaker 1: in the kitchen or whatever, I'd like move it, take
Speaker 1: a desk from somewhere, like put a lamp somewhere, like
Speaker 1: create some kind of on beance and be like, ha,
Speaker 1: this is this week's studio.
Speaker 2: I've got visions of you like knocking on the neighbor's
Speaker 2: door just being like I'm staying. Do you mind how
Speaker 2: we get the I need to get a piano.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, No, I actually wouldn't try and ignore any
Speaker 1: neighbors because I knew I'd probably be making a lot
Speaker 1: of noise late at night, so I just thought I
Speaker 1: won't show my face and hopefully no one complains.
Speaker 2: Yeah, did you find any like cozy spots? Like did
Speaker 2: you go anywhere in particular that you were like this
Speaker 2: is this is great? Like this is exactly the type
Speaker 2: of space I need to be creative.
Speaker 1: They were all pretty kooky and pretty scary to be hones,
Speaker 1: especially because I turn up alone, So like the first
Speaker 1: night you'd be a bit eerie and like getting to
Speaker 1: know the house. But I think the first one I
Speaker 1: went in was Image in Heap's house and that was
Speaker 1: actually a studio r and her house is insane.
Speaker 4: She was she wasn't there.
Speaker 1: She rents it out now, but it's like I think
Speaker 1: it's one of the only roundhouses left in the UK.
Speaker 1: And it has this huge spiral staircase in the middle
Speaker 1: and all the rooms kind of circle all around it,
Speaker 1: and then the studio is in the basement and that
Speaker 1: was a pretty are in place to be.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's beautiful.
Speaker 2: I've got a final couple of things I want to
Speaker 2: talk to you about before before we before we wrap up.
Speaker 2: But on YouTube you share lots of different stuff, one
Speaker 2: of which is like a series that you've been doing
Speaker 2: where you cover songs and you've been doing for this
Speaker 2: for quite a while and also done it with loads
Speaker 2: of different artists Georgia Sigrid sg Lewis like loads of
Speaker 2: people that you've kind of raped in to basically do
Speaker 2: cover versions. You set yourself an hour to uh to
Speaker 2: basically recreate, reversion, reshape a song and share it. How
Speaker 2: has that gone? And like, in all honesty, when is
Speaker 2: it gone? What are some of your favorite times when
Speaker 2: you think it's gone really well? And what are the
Speaker 2: science times when you're gone, this has gone terribly wrong.
Speaker 1: They're all really kind of a lot because it's quite intense.
Speaker 1: Sometimes I'm meeting the people for the first time I've
Speaker 1: messaged them or whatever, and you've got cameras on, and
Speaker 1: it is a bit like, yeah, it's real social anxiety.
Speaker 4: I thought, what was a good one?
Speaker 1: I thought the Birdie one became really good because the
Speaker 1: studio we'd booked was awful. It was like this horrible
Speaker 1: little box and you could tell that like people have
Speaker 1: been in their hot boxing it and like Birdie is
Speaker 1: so like quaint and gentle, and it just wasn't a
Speaker 1: beautiful studio at all. And anyways, we did Bloody by
Speaker 1: Your Lights and then I think it turned out really
Speaker 1: really nice, and a lot of people talk to me
Speaker 1: about that one. The Tom Adele one was funny because
Speaker 1: he kind of came in. I'm not even sure he
Speaker 1: really had a concept of what it was. I mates
Speaker 1: with Tom, and he just kind of came in and
Speaker 1: quite Tom fashion was like I've got to leave in
Speaker 1: twenty minutes.
Speaker 2: I was like, what the the idea is? One?
Speaker 4: Tom?
Speaker 1: So then I was like, get on the piano and
Speaker 1: then we did the Villie Eilish one, so that one
Speaker 1: was kind of funny.
Speaker 2: I quite like the one did with Cigared was good
Speaker 2: because it sort of just all fell apart and then
Speaker 2: you were just like, Okay, knew, I We've got like
Speaker 2: fifteen minutes left.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I'm trying to remember what song I did
Speaker 1: with cigarette Actually I can't remember.
Speaker 2: Was it a Taylor Swift song?
Speaker 4: Yeah, it must have been. Yeah, I think we switched.
Speaker 2: Off with shoes and you were both really funny on
Speaker 2: that one. It was good. I think you both embraced
Speaker 2: the fact that it seemed to be just sort of
Speaker 2: going going shape.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, exactly. I know.
Speaker 1: It also depends how like I'm feeling as well, because like,
Speaker 1: I don't really produce very well under pressure. I need
Speaker 1: time and space and then suddenly I'm like ah, and
Speaker 1: then also like pulling up a terrible set synth sound
Speaker 1: and then hearing the other artists judge me it's just awful.
Speaker 1: But yes, it's fun.
Speaker 2: It's called Against the Clock, I should say, so if
Speaker 2: anbody's going to check it out, it's on YouTube. And
Speaker 2: I guess my final question was just about like your
Speaker 2: plans and your ambitions for like the next kind of
Speaker 2: like year or two. I don't want to get like
Speaker 2: too far ahead, because you know, you've been, like, from
Speaker 2: what kind of outside perspective, you're kind of you seemingly
Speaker 2: quite prolific, Like you've been writing a lot of songs,
Speaker 2: You've shared like a quite a lot of music last
Speaker 2: couple of years. What are you kind of like headed for,
Speaker 2: what what you're hoping for you and what kind of
Speaker 2: artists would you like to be in terms of like
Speaker 2: a level do you And it's an odd question to say,
Speaker 2: I'm just saying, like I guess I'm asking you know,
Speaker 2: is this really about like longevity? Do you really just
Speaker 2: want to like try and write as many like timeless
Speaker 2: songs that mean something to people as possible? Are you
Speaker 2: thinking like I really want to, you know, have him
Speaker 2: shared a stage with Coldplay and do a leap and stuff.
Speaker 2: You're thinking like I want to play stadium shows or
Speaker 2: what's because you know, you're you're You're You've always said
Speaker 2: that you're so passionate about the song and songwriting, like
Speaker 2: ahead of like the kind of being an artist, being
Speaker 2: the kind of the face of it almost that I'm
Speaker 2: just really keen to know, well where you you like
Speaker 2: to take things.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I've had to really.
Speaker 1: Do you construct a little bit what I think is
Speaker 1: successful because I think at the beginning, I just I mean,
Speaker 1: I guess every artist is kind of their own worst critic,
Speaker 1: but I definitely thought be quicker and like an overnight thing.
Speaker 1: So that was like a brutal awakening. And then now
Speaker 1: it's like I don't even know what any I don't
Speaker 1: think anyone knows what success is, you know, like with
Speaker 1: short form, with TikTok is like even the way record
Speaker 1: labels are defining success, is it like how many creations
Speaker 1: it has?
Speaker 4: Is it? Are we still caring about charts? Do we
Speaker 4: care about radio? Like?
Speaker 1: I guess I never thought I would be like someone
Speaker 1: who really was attached to the mainstream that much, which
Speaker 1: is funny, which is why I think I found the
Speaker 1: Brits quite an amazing but like an accelerated experience, because
Speaker 1: I never thought I wrote pop songs for the charts,
Speaker 1: which I think I do, which isn't a bad thing
Speaker 1: at all, But yeah, I just want to write songs
Speaker 1: that I love and move people really and in terms
Speaker 1: of level, I don't know, like I'm so inspired by
Speaker 1: the scale that I've witnessed, and I think anyone who
Speaker 1: does this is driven to some extent and wants to
Speaker 1: see and is competitive and like almost likes the sadistic
Speaker 1: challenge of like beating yourself. So I wouldn't lie by
Speaker 1: saying I didn't look at stadiums and arenas and get
Speaker 1: super inspired. I would love that one day, but I
Speaker 1: don't want to put that too much on a pedestal.
Speaker 1: Almost Chris actually said to me, He's like, do you
Speaker 1: write down what you want to do? Because he always
Speaker 1: did that. He would write down, like I want to
Speaker 1: do Glastonbury, and then he did it, and that's one.
Speaker 1: It's a cool way of kind of I guess, manifesting
Speaker 1: your career. I would just like a nice fan base
Speaker 1: that are there whenever I'm ready to release a song.
Speaker 4: I think, like Adele does that really well. I think.
Speaker 1: Frank Ocean seems to have the most ideal cult following
Speaker 1: where you can just disappear and then reappear. Lord, I
Speaker 1: think does it. I don't think I desire to be
Speaker 1: this front facing, chatty person on camera, Like really, I
Speaker 1: never thought I thought I'd be a songwriter. I didn't
Speaker 1: think I'd be an artist, so I think the careers
Speaker 1: that I like the look of is like Lord and
Speaker 1: Frank and Adele and James Blake.
Speaker 2: I could definitely see you having like watched your collaboration
Speaker 2: because you generously share it with the outside world. What
Speaker 2: an amazing producer you'd be and collaborator like for other
Speaker 2: artists when they're come to put their work together.
Speaker 1: I would love that one day, Yeah, yeah, because that
Speaker 1: was really the goal. There's a lot of songs where
Speaker 1: I was I give it away, pitch it out, and
Speaker 1: I think I'm happy that I've landed here. But I
Speaker 1: honestly I find so much fulfillment and I get such
Speaker 1: a rush out of writing a good song that whatever
Speaker 1: happens after the day I've written a song, I honestly
Speaker 1: find so laborious. So whether it's writing a song for
Speaker 1: me or writing a song for other artists, I kind
Speaker 1: of just get gassed out of the idea of both
Speaker 1: of them.
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