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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Steff.

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Speaker 1: I never told you a protection of iHeartRadio. And it

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Speaker 1: is time once again for another edition of a Female First,

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Speaker 1: which means we are once again thrilled to be joined

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Speaker 1: by the fantastic, the fabulous Eves.

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Speaker 2: Welcome Eaves.

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Speaker 3: Hello, thank you.

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Speaker 2: We're so happy to have you as always. Happy belated birthday.

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Speaker 4: Happy belated birthday.

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Speaker 2: I like to do anything of note.

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Speaker 3: Of note.

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Speaker 5: I don't know if I would say it was of note,

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Speaker 5: but all I did was I read a lot that

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Speaker 5: day and then I, yeah, so I just worked, if

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Speaker 5: that's interesting. And then I lifted. I weightlifted that day,

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Speaker 5: and I went out to eat. So it was chill.

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Speaker 5: I really had no plans. Kept asking myself before the day,

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Speaker 5: like what do I want to do, and I was like,

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Speaker 5: I don't really know, So I guess it's fine for

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Speaker 5: me to not think so hard about it.

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Speaker 3: If you know, I don't know. I have a trip

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Speaker 3: plan for later.

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Speaker 5: But it's technically for my birthday, but it's not happening

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Speaker 5: all my birthday, so hey, I was just like, I'll

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Speaker 5: just chill.

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Speaker 4: I love that. Yeah, Sometimes just having a relaxed day

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Speaker 4: is the best.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think so. Yeah, I think there's there

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Speaker 2: could be so much pressure on birthdays and sometimes it's

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Speaker 2: nice to be like, you know what, I'll just do

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Speaker 2: whatever it is I want and then I'll do a

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Speaker 2: trip later and that's fine, Like I don't know, taking

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Speaker 2: the pressure off.

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Speaker 3: Yeah I does. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you're always You're always up to stuffives. I'm always

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Speaker 2: interested to hear what your your trips you're going on

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Speaker 2: and everything.

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Speaker 3: I try. I try to keep things interesting.

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Speaker 2: So I think I think you do. I think you do. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: you much so, yes, I'm always I love checking in

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Speaker 2: with your cat today and your various travel.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and the lifting was new to me. I was like,

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Speaker 4: what you're just yeah, a pile of secrets.

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Speaker 2: A pile of secrets.

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Speaker 4: That's the best I could think of at the point.

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Speaker 1: I think that's all.

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Speaker 3: This secret secrets.

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Speaker 4: You're a bundle of secrets that yeah, like pile is like, yeah,

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Speaker 4: this seems like a mistake. That's where like you just

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Speaker 4: like just go ahead and just throw things into a pile.

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Speaker 4: We'll put it in a bundle.

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Speaker 3: Thank you. That's a lot neater.

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Speaker 1: I love it well, speaking of someone who got up

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Speaker 1: to a lot in their life.

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Speaker 2: Can you tell us who we're talking about today, Eves, Yes.

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Speaker 5: So we're talking today about Francis and Rolin Whipper, and

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Speaker 5: she was I talked about her in a recent episode

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Speaker 5: of On the which is another podcast that I do

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Speaker 5: is my cost Katie Mitchell, and that one's about black storytelling,

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Speaker 5: and we did an episode on diaries that black women

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Speaker 5: wrote in history, and Francis and Rollin Whipper was one

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Speaker 5: of the people who wrote diaries.

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Speaker 3: She had a diary.

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Speaker 5: That is one of the earliest known diaries written by

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Speaker 5: a black Southern woman that she wrote in eighteen sixty eight.

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Speaker 5: It's like a year's worth of her recordings from that year,

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Speaker 5: and it's a pretty interesting year in her life.

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Speaker 3: So I enjoyed reading it.

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Speaker 5: And I think y'all know from other episodes of Female

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Speaker 5: First that, like I really enjoy letters and journals that

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Speaker 5: people have from their travels.

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Speaker 3: Like I think we talked about Mary Sekol.

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Speaker 5: People's autobiographies when they have just kind of a daily

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Speaker 5: log of the things that they did, is super fascinating

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Speaker 5: to me, even though it's like the most mundane things.

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Speaker 5: You know, we'll talk about people who have all these

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Speaker 5: big accomplishments and traveled.

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Speaker 3: All over the world or like.

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Speaker 5: What seeing with different dignitaries and all that stuff is cool.

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Speaker 3: But I also like the.

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Speaker 5: Everyday musings of getting to know people's internal processes and

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Speaker 5: how they choose to express those. So I was fascinated

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Speaker 5: by Francis and Rolin Whipper's diary. And she also had

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Speaker 5: a first and she wrote the first full ath biography

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Speaker 5: by black American about a free born black person, so

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Speaker 5: that is part of her story as well. And she's

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Speaker 5: just like a super interesting person. So that's what we'll

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Speaker 5: be talking about today.

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Speaker 1: I agree with you. I love diaries. I love like

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Speaker 1: just random notes you can find. I love these like instances.

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Speaker 1: I think they paint such a good picture of what

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Speaker 1: was going on at the time, even if it can

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Speaker 1: seem kind of mundane, I'm fascinated by it, like this

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Speaker 1: is what people were worried about, or this was what

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Speaker 1: was going on on, or I think it's such a

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Speaker 1: great snapshot of stuff.

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Speaker 2: So I agree with you, Eve, Well, shall we get

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Speaker 2: into the history.

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Speaker 3: Sure?

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Speaker 2: So.

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Speaker 5: Francis and Rowlin was born free in November of eighteen

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Speaker 5: forty five in Charleston, South Carolina, and her parents were

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Speaker 5: Margarette or Margarette, not sure which way to pronounce that,

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Speaker 5: but Margaret and William Rolin, and they were also free,

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Speaker 5: not much more beyond her being free as known about

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Speaker 5: her mother, but her father was like from this wealthy

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Speaker 5: quote unquote.

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Speaker 3: Mulatto side, and they ended.

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Speaker 5: Up on their family ended up on a plantation near

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Speaker 5: Charleston and started getting into the lumber trade. So he

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Speaker 5: was kind of doing some merchant stuff, buying property. And

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Speaker 5: they had their family had enslaved three people I've seen.

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Speaker 5: I'm not sure if that's like how many people they

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Speaker 5: had enslaved over, you know, over time, if they had

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Speaker 5: even more than that. But they also had trading connections

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Speaker 5: with other cities. So they were these free people of

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Speaker 5: color who had high status in society and basically gained

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Speaker 5: a lot of privilege and access to things by virtue

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Speaker 5: of their proximity to whiteness. So that's part of their history.

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Speaker 5: But Francis, she had four sisters. They were Charlotte, Catherine, Luisa,

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Speaker 5: and Florence. And Francis was the oldest of all of them.

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Speaker 5: And they all got good educations. Like I was just saying,

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Speaker 5: she you know, they all they have money. So even

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Speaker 5: though it was illegal for black folks at the time.

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Speaker 3: Black schooling was still.

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Speaker 5: They were able to be educated, and Francis went to

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Speaker 5: private schools and she had tutors in Charleston and she

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Speaker 5: learned French, and.

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Speaker 3: She, you know, had access to.

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Speaker 5: Education because of her parents, and all her other sisters

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Speaker 5: did as well.

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Speaker 3: But at the same time, the Civil.

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Speaker 5: War was about to pop off and things were looking

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Speaker 5: dicey for free black people in the South.

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Speaker 3: You know, all of this.

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Speaker 5: At the end of the day, if you're perceived as black,

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Speaker 5: you're perceived as black. So you know, even free people

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Speaker 5: of color face difficulties at the time. And in eighteen

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Speaker 5: fifty nine, Francis ended up going to Philadelphia and she

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Speaker 5: began attending the Institute for Colored Youth, which was founded

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Speaker 5: by Quakers, and she lived there with musician Morris Brown's family,

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Speaker 5: and her sisters followed her up there not long afterwards.

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Speaker 5: So for the next six years she stayed in Philadelphia.

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Speaker 5: I saw that she wasn't really in communication with her

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Speaker 5: parents during that time that we know of, and she

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Speaker 5: seemingly didn't graduate from the institute, so she may have

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Speaker 5: had to work at the time. But either way, after

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Speaker 5: the Civil War she went back to Charleston to teach

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Speaker 5: black people who had recently been emancipated. She taught at

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Speaker 5: a Freedman's Bureau school, and then she taught at an

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Speaker 5: American Missionary Society school.

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Speaker 3: And when there is a notable case.

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Speaker 5: In her history, and that's when she was traveling on

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Speaker 5: a steamer to Beaufort, South Carolina, the captain, whose name

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Speaker 5: was W. T.

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Speaker 3: Mcnelty, denied her access to a first class cabin.

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Speaker 5: She said that he had violated a military order, and

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Speaker 5: so at that point he was tried before a military

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Speaker 5: court and he was found guilty and he got fined

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Speaker 5: two hundred and fifty dollars in eighteen sixty seven, which

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Speaker 5: I don't know how much that is in today's dollars,

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Speaker 5: but it's a lot more So around this time she

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Speaker 5: met Martin R. Delaney, and at this point he was

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Speaker 5: major in the army and he worked for the Freedman's

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Speaker 5: Bureau and he supported her. He was during her case process,

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Speaker 5: and I don't know exactly how this conversation looked, but

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Speaker 5: I'm very curious about it because she told him that

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Speaker 5: she wanted a literary career, and he encouraged her to

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Speaker 5: write his biography, and she agreed, and there's just there's

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Speaker 5: something about this interaction that really fascinates me, Like as

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Speaker 5: a writer, it just I just want to know how

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Speaker 5: that conversation went, because she hadn't written any biographies up

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Speaker 5: to this point, so one to ask somebody to write

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Speaker 5: your biography, I feel like you have.

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Speaker 3: To feel you you have to feel a.

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Speaker 5: Way about yourself before you're like, Okay, you know, I've

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Speaker 5: done some things and I want somebody to write my biography.

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Speaker 5: And at this point they had just met, like they didn't.

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Speaker 5: I'm not sure how long they knew each other up

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Speaker 5: until this point, but I don't think they have been

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Speaker 5: there were deep in the trenches of friendship. And she

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Speaker 5: also wasn't known for writing full length works, if barely

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Speaker 5: anything at this point because she was doing I believe

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Speaker 5: more teaching up until this point. But anyway, I'm very

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Speaker 5: curious about this conversation. I don't think there are any

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Speaker 5: records of this, because it seems like there's a lot

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Speaker 5: of vagueness around this.

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Speaker 3: But when I'm looking at.

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Speaker 5: Her biography, I just like, this is a this is

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Speaker 5: a flashpoint for her. This is the first that we're

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Speaker 5: talking about today. And to not know exactly why he

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Speaker 5: asked her what he thought her merits were of being

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Speaker 5: able to do this is very interesting to me. So anyway,

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Speaker 5: that's that's by a side. But she hoped that, you know,

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Speaker 5: this biography would launch her literary career. And he gave

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Speaker 5: her all these materials, all these papers, and he told her, hey,

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Speaker 5: I will support you financially while you work on this book.

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Speaker 5: And she went to Boston to write the book and

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Speaker 5: she stayed there for eight months. So this is in

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Speaker 5: eighteen sixty eight, and that's the year that we have

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Speaker 5: where she writes in her diary, and so all her

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Speaker 5: surviving diary entries are from that year. I'm not sure

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Speaker 5: if she had diary, if she was doing diary entries

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Speaker 5: before then or after then, she very well could have been.

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Speaker 5: But this is these are the this is the extant

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Speaker 5: diary that we have of hers, and in it, she

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Speaker 5: is very she's very kind of like before I was

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Speaker 5: want to say that she was she's uppitty. At first

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Speaker 5: I kind of felt like, hey, I want to be

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Speaker 5: her friend. But then I realized that she kind of

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Speaker 5: had like her class consciousness was not completely there, Like

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Speaker 5: she was a little too bougie for my taste. But

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Speaker 5: if you read her diary, there are parts of it

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Speaker 5: that I kind of like, oh, I want to be

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Speaker 5: her friend, because she's kind of like she's going to

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Speaker 5: lectures for people like Charles Dickens and Ralph Waldell Emerson

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Speaker 5: and abolition sheets got to know people like the abolitionists

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Speaker 5: William Lord Garrison, Wendell Phillips, and William Nell, as well

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Speaker 5: as the scholar name Richard Greener, and she talks about

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Speaker 5: the difficulties that she had during that year.

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Speaker 3: In her diary, she talks.

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Speaker 5: About Martin Delaney and the troubles that she was going

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Speaker 5: through with him in that relationship, because apparently there was

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Speaker 5: some infidelity later on, and she talks about how he

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Speaker 5: wrote her a love letter, and then there are also

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Speaker 5: these other moments where she's in her very intellectual flow

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Speaker 5: where she's talking about how she.

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Speaker 3: Went to these lectures and she read this person's.

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Speaker 5: Work and she thought he needed to do better. So

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Speaker 5: and she talks about how she had friends who she

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Speaker 5: would talk to about some of the literary works that

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Speaker 5: she had read and how their opinions on them could

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Speaker 5: be improved. But yeah, so you can read her diary online.

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Speaker 5: It is digitized online, so it's free. Everybody can go

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Speaker 5: check it out and read all her entries. There have

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Speaker 5: been people volunteers who worked on transcribing everything and her diary,

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Speaker 5: So if you're interested in diary entries like we are

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Speaker 5: here on Sminthea, then you can check those out.

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Speaker 3: But the thing about.

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Speaker 5: It is Delaney didn't keep sending her money, so she

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Speaker 5: had to sew and be a copyist, I think, to

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Speaker 5: support herself.

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Speaker 3: Which is sad because.

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Speaker 5: I'm just trying to step in her shoes and think

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Speaker 5: like I want this thing to launch my career, and

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Speaker 5: she's already getting a taste of how this whole writing

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Speaker 5: life is.

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Speaker 3: You don't get paid when you're supposed to, so.

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Speaker 5: She had to support herself, but she did it, and

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Speaker 5: clearly she was dedicated to that work because she continued

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Speaker 5: it and she wrote the book that ended up being

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Speaker 5: called Life in Public Services of Major Martin R. Delaney

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Speaker 5: That was published in eighteen sixty eight, and later on

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Speaker 5: years later in eighteen eighty three, it was reissued, but

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Speaker 5: the publisher LEA. Shepherd, they published the biography under a

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Speaker 5: pseudonym that was Frank A. Rolin, and that was seemingly

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Speaker 5: the publisher's decision because they thought people weren't ready to

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Speaker 5: have a book by a black woman. But her family

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Speaker 5: also did call her Frank, so it seems like it

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Speaker 5: was a fine compromise for her, I guess, because she

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Speaker 5: was like, well, I guess they already called me frank anyway,

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Speaker 5: so it's cool.

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Speaker 3: But yeah.

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Speaker 5: By July eighteen sixty eight, she had left Boston and

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Speaker 5: she went to Columbia, South Carolina, which is my birthplace,

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Speaker 5: which is not a thing people really need to know,

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Speaker 5: but it is, so there's a link there. And she

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Speaker 5: had gotten a job as a copyist, and William J.

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Speaker 5: Whipper had offered her the job. And he was a

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Speaker 5: lawyer from the North who had recently moved to South

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Speaker 5: Carolina and was elected to the state legislature.

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Speaker 3: And he had people in his.

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Speaker 5: Family already who were writers, editors, an abolitionists. So the

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Speaker 5: work that he ended up doing in politics and in editing,

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Speaker 5: you know, that is something that was in his family already.

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Speaker 5: And he though had his own controversies, so he has

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Speaker 5: his own history of the work that he did in

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Speaker 5: what in the Republican Party at the time during reconstruction,

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Speaker 5: and it said that he was often charged with political corruption,

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Speaker 5: and he had a reputation for gambling and drinking, and

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Speaker 5: just it seemed like being kind of like a party

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Speaker 5: guy who was sometimes up to no good, but like

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Speaker 5: had did a lot. But he offered Francis the job.

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Speaker 5: And when he did, he had a wife, but his

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Speaker 5: wife died before Francis.

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Speaker 3: Ended up coming to Colombia.

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Speaker 5: And when she got to Columbia in August, he proposed

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Speaker 5: to her in less than two months, so they had

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Speaker 5: their whole dating period.

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Speaker 3: But he proposed pretty quickly. But similarly, she was into it.

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Speaker 5: Can't tell you why, if she was just that smitten

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Speaker 5: with him, or if there were other motivations.

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Speaker 3: I have no idea, but she because that's quick.

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Speaker 5: But you know, she went to talk to her parents

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Speaker 5: about it, and her father said the same thing, He said,

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Speaker 5: it's too soon. But her sister Charlotte said, like it

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Speaker 5: might have been some class stuff going on. Because there

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Speaker 5: is a quote from a publication in which Charlotte says,

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Speaker 5: in fact, our family never condescended to notice such small

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Speaker 5: people as Elliott and Whipper. Although Whipper married our sister Francis,

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Speaker 5: they are both Negroes, and our family is French, so

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Speaker 5: you know they were she was recognizing their status as

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Speaker 5: Mulato's and you can see from that sentiment that she

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Speaker 5: and her sisters as well distanced themselves from other black

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Speaker 5: people and kind of looked down on lower class folks.

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Speaker 5: They cared a lot about appearances and politeness and respectability politics,

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Speaker 5: and it is.

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Speaker 3: Clear that they did.

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Speaker 5: They gained favor from this, Like there's a lot in

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Speaker 5: sources about them of talk about how elegant they were,

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Speaker 5: how refined they were, how polite they were, how they

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Speaker 5: were able to move through these political spaces kind of

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Speaker 5: like they're not like the other darkies situation with them

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Speaker 5: and ad around their complexion, all of that kind of

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Speaker 5: stuff going on. So they were clearly that up and

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Speaker 5: it worked in their favor. They already had wealth, so

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Speaker 5: they already had access to that kind of status and

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Speaker 5: all the traffics that came along with it. But the

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Speaker 5: way that they clearly carry themselves in like socialite society

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Speaker 5: also helped them. So they were viewed pretty positively by

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Speaker 5: the elite essentially. And it's interesting though because at this

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Speaker 5: while it's an interplay of like lack of consciousness, but

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Speaker 5: also some they did also pay attention to racial issues

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Speaker 5: and issues of gender, because they still advocated for equal

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Speaker 5: rights for black people, and they still all of the sisters,

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Speaker 5: including france Is, still advocated for equal rights for women.

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Speaker 5: But you know, I guess we contain multitudes, and they

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Speaker 5: definitely did. And we also like have to consider the

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Speaker 5: the the way that people of color moved in the

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Speaker 5: reconstruction era when they got a little taste of, you know,

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Speaker 5: a post slavery South, and how I'm sure all.

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Speaker 3: Of that glory and.

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Speaker 5: Respectability looked like, you know, a shiny object at the

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Speaker 5: end of a tunnel, and they clearly got wrapped up

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Speaker 5: into that.

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Speaker 3: But anyway, even you know, even with the.

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Speaker 5: Disavowal of her father, her father's disavowal about her soon

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Speaker 5: to be husband, she still got married in September of

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Speaker 5: eighteen sixty eight, and she edited the Beaufort Tribune, and

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Speaker 5: she wrote some pieces for other newspapers under a pen name,

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Speaker 5: and she and her sisters advocated for rights during this time.

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Speaker 5: And Francis ended up having four children who lived beyond infancy,

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Speaker 5: although I think one of her other children also die

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Speaker 5: a little bit later on, but still young. But either way,

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Speaker 5: she and her sisters were moving through these fears in Colombia,

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Speaker 5: and her father died in eighteen eighty and she began

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Speaker 5: to administer the estate, but her mother challenged her administration.

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Speaker 5: I'm not sure the suit didn't go to trial, and

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Speaker 5: I'm not sure exactly why she challenged it, but that happened,

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Speaker 5: and by that year, Francis was also living in Washington, DC.

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Speaker 5: That was with her kids, but without her husband. So

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Speaker 5: her husband was in South Carolina. He was still doing

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Speaker 5: his political thing and apparently had a mistress at this time,

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Speaker 5: I believe, and Francis was in DC and she was

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Speaker 5: still publishing articles and essays and eventually landed a job

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Speaker 5: as a copyist with the US Department of Lance. She

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Speaker 5: did lose that job in eighteen eighty five the Democrats

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Speaker 5: gained control of the White House. But after that year,

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Speaker 5: between eighteen eighty five and eighteen eighty nine is unclear

360
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Speaker 5: exactly what she did from work, but she still got

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Speaker 5: All of her children were going to school, they graduated

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Speaker 5: from Howard University, and she kept writing, though it seems

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Speaker 5: like there are some she wrote under pseudonyms that are

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Speaker 5: some of which are unknown. But she kept writing, and

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Speaker 5: sometime after the mid eighteen ninety she had to go

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Speaker 5: back to South Carolina. Her health wasn't in the best shape,

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Speaker 5: and she ended up dying in Beaufort, South Carolina, on

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Speaker 5: October seventeenth, nineteen oh one, of tuberculosis. And she's today,

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Speaker 5: she's buried in Beaufort, South Carolina.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, once again, it's quite a story. It's

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Speaker 1: hard to imagine having your diary digitized. I mean, it

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Speaker 1: sounds like she would be cool with it, right, but.

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Speaker 2: I mean I would to mine mine. I would do.

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Speaker 2: But it's just it's kind of odd to think everyone. Right.

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Speaker 4: But it's interesting because the that you read from the sister,

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Speaker 4: I was like, this kind of reminds me of like

377
00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:35,040
Speaker 4: a Jane Austen novel, Like this feels like it's like

378
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Speaker 4: a dialogue straight out of except for is from the

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Speaker 4: black community perspective or the you know, like freight black community.

380
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Speaker 4: I'm like, huh, this feels very like enriched in like

381
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Speaker 4: society and our place in life and then who is

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Speaker 4: beneath us? And I was like, maybe it's because we

383
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Speaker 4: just did Bride prejudice, but I'm like, this feels familiar.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, there's I can't read a quote from her diary

385
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Speaker 5: if you want to hear one. Yeah, actually really because yeah, So,

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Speaker 5: like we talked about at the beginning of the episode,

387
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Speaker 5: the diaries that people wrote, they allowed people to have

388
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:16,600
Speaker 5: a lot of insight into what daily life was like

389
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Speaker 5: for different kinds of people. So not only did she

390
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Speaker 5: talk about her social life life, she was also talking

391
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Speaker 5: about things that happened in society that you know, we

392
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Speaker 5: can we have other records of, but you know, we

393
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Speaker 5: get more of this personal insight of. So this is

394
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Speaker 5: one journal entry that she had in eighteen sixty eight.

395
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Speaker 5: This was on August second, so I think that was

396
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Speaker 5: she reached Columbia this day. So she says in this

397
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Speaker 5: diary entry, reached Columbia about six o'clock. Mister Hipper met

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Speaker 5: me at the depot with his buggy and took me

399
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Speaker 5: to my boarding place, where an elegant and spacious room

400
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:57,880
Speaker 5: awaited me. Breakfast was tempting. My dear friend, mister Adams

401
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:01,360
Speaker 5: was in to see me very soon after. My Charlotte

402
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:03,480
Speaker 5: came to see me in the morning, but Kate did not.

403
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:07,280
Speaker 5: Went to church in the morning with Harry Maxwell and

404
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:10,960
Speaker 5: mister Adams. The governor and all the members were there

405
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:15,199
Speaker 5: quite an excitement created on account of the disappearance of

406
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:17,800
Speaker 5: Joe Howard after the visit of the Ku Klux Klan

407
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:22,400
Speaker 5: at night. So that's the end of that journal entry.

408
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:27,360
Speaker 5: And uh, it's a pretty shock. It's a cliffhanger, right,

409
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:31,360
Speaker 5: It's kind of like you buried the lead in that one.

410
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:33,600
Speaker 5: You're talking about your elegance spacis room. But I do

411
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:35,840
Speaker 5: think it's interesting now that I think about the journal entry,

412
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:39,160
Speaker 5: the contrast between its beginning and it's end, because she's

413
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:43,760
Speaker 5: talking about this fancy situation where she's being catered to,

414
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:47,600
Speaker 5: but at the same time she's saying racial the reckoning

415
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 5: of racial violence happening around her, and it's like those

416
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:53,240
Speaker 5: things are right next to each other. She's in Columbia,

417
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:58,119
Speaker 5: South Carolina, you know. Yeah, it's a lot. It's a

418
00:24:58,160 --> 00:24:59,760
Speaker 5: lot going on around her.

419
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Speaker 3: Yeah.

420
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Speaker 5: Interesting to see some of her talk about some of

421
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:06,960
Speaker 5: those things. She talked about some of the anti slavery

422
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:13,159
Speaker 5: meetings that she goes to. Yeah, so she was she

423
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 5: had her hands in all these.

424
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Speaker 3: Parts of.

425
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Speaker 5: Society and wrote about it in her diary. And I too,

426
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Speaker 5: I don't want my diary published.

427
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:27,919
Speaker 2: I don't, you know, now that I'm thinking about it.

428
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Speaker 1: This is one of the interesting things about diaries is that,

429
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:36,280
Speaker 1: at least in my understanding of them, you're writing it

430
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Speaker 1: for yourself with the idea no one else will ever

431
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:42,960
Speaker 1: read it. Plus the thought, which is such a fascinating

432
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Speaker 1: I've never really considered it before, but that is interesting

433
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Speaker 1: that you're essentially just writing this thing to help you

434
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:52,600
Speaker 1: process or think about things, but it is not for

435
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:56,439
Speaker 1: anyone else to read. And you know, I like when

436
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 1: I travel, I always keep a diary, and it's mostly

437
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:01,520
Speaker 1: so I can go back and remember things like oh yeah,

438
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:05,359
Speaker 1: I remember that, but it's never with the idea I

439
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 1: will publish it. So this is this is fascinating. Her

440
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:14,679
Speaker 1: diary got published. Yeah, well, I also don't put in

441
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:16,879
Speaker 1: like I feel like she had some pretty good language

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00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 1: in hers mine, Like I just need to write it

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00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 1: down before I forget what happened.

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00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:24,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's gonna be incoherent sometimes, right.

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00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 4: I think mine was just like a lot of exclamation

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00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:31,160
Speaker 4: points and astisks going. But why.

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00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 3: I'm just here to process.

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00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:40,960
Speaker 4: Or just be sad. Yeah. Again, Like it's interesting though,

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00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 4: the way she does build it up into like her

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00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 4: day and then just like the last comment of like

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00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:50,200
Speaker 4: the glukluks Lam. They're here. Cool, You're like, oh god,

452
00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:51,440
Speaker 4: what is what's happening?

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00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:59,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, once again a very good snapshot of what was

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00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:02,480
Speaker 1: going on. I have to check it out. Yeah, I

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00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:03,480
Speaker 1: don't want to look into what.

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00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 2: Well.

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00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 1: Thank you so much as always Eve's for being here,

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00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 1: for braving the technical difficulties that the Sminty team has

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00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:16,359
Speaker 1: had over the past few days. It just keeps happening.

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00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:21,440
Speaker 1: And yes, once again delated Happy birthday.

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00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:24,960
Speaker 2: Where can the good listeners find you?

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00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:28,480
Speaker 3: You can find me on many other episodes of Sminty

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00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:33,400
Speaker 3: doing female First talking about other women in history, and

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00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:37,920
Speaker 3: you can also find me on Instagram at not Apologizing,

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00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:39,919
Speaker 3: or you can just go to my website, which is

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00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:42,359
Speaker 3: Eve's jeffcoat dot com.

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00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 5: That's Eve spelled with why ves Jeffcoat just like it

468
00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 5: sounds basically, and you can check me out on On Theme,

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00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 5: that is the podcast that I mentioned at the top

470
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:57,040
Speaker 5: of the episode that I co host with Katie Mitchell.

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00:27:57,119 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 3: That is a.

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00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:03,480
Speaker 5: Podcast about black storytelling in all of its forms. And

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00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:07,239
Speaker 5: if you're interested in hearing about other diaries, we have

474
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 5: a recent episode on that call it Diary Dialogues, So

475
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:13,440
Speaker 5: you can go check that out and all the other episodes.

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00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:18,080
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's a good title. Yeah for the episode I

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00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:22,440
Speaker 6: love you. Love it well, listeners, go do that. If

478
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:24,439
Speaker 6: you haven't done it already. If you would like to

479
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:26,919
Speaker 6: contact us, you can. You can email u Atephania mom

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00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:29,280
Speaker 6: Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. Can find us on Twitter

481
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 6: at mostaff podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok that Stuff

482
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:33,440
Speaker 6: will Never told you. We have a tea public store,

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00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:34,639
Speaker 6: and we have a book you can get wherever you

484
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:36,879
Speaker 6: get your books. Thanks as always to our super producer

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00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:38,480
Speaker 6: Christina or executive producer Maya and.

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00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 2: Your contributor Joey.

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00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:40,720
Speaker 4: Thank you and thanks to you for.

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00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 1: Listening Stuff I Never told you the inspection of my

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00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 1: heart Radio. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you

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00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:45,960
Speaker 1: can check out the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or

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00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite show.