1 00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:02,560 Speaker 1: Wake that answer up in the morning. 2 00:00:02,880 --> 00:00:08,760 Speaker 2: Breakfast Club Morning, everybody is DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, Charlamagne 3 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:10,520 Speaker 2: the Guy. We aret a breakfast club. We got a 4 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 2: special guest in the building. Yes, indeed, got a thing 5 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:14,400 Speaker 2: called welcome, Thank you, thank you. 6 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:15,080 Speaker 3: How's it going. 7 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:17,280 Speaker 1: How you feeling I'm feeling great. I'm feeling great. It's 8 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 1: great to be here. 9 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 3: Toe of people who Jonathan call lived if they don't know. 10 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 1: I'm the chief Washington correspondent for ABC News. I covered 11 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:26,159 Speaker 1: the White House for more than a decade as the 12 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:30,000 Speaker 1: Chief White House Correspondent, including all of Obama's second term, 13 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:33,919 Speaker 1: all of Donald Trump's term. I've written three books on 14 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:37,560 Speaker 1: that guy on Trump, and I'm the co host of 15 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:39,160 Speaker 1: This Week And. 16 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 2: How did you get into politics? So people that don't know, 17 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:43,159 Speaker 2: how did you your life? Say, you know, I want 18 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:44,680 Speaker 2: to do politics. When I was a kid, you know, 19 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:45,519 Speaker 2: how did you get into that? 20 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:48,000 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I got to tell you. I 21 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:52,199 Speaker 1: mean ever since I was like a little kid, I was, 22 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 1: you know, fifth grade, I was like grabbing for the 23 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:57,960 Speaker 1: New York Times sports section first, you know, which was 24 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 1: pretty lame at the Times, and then the op ed 25 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 1: page to read the op Eds. My mom and my 26 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:06,839 Speaker 1: stepfather went out to South Dakota at about that time 27 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 1: and we went to Mount Rushmore and they ended up 28 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:13,280 Speaker 1: doing a project. And by the way, neither one of 29 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 1: them went to college. My stepfather had been a cab driver. 30 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 1: He was working running a factory in Stanford, Connecticut. We 31 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:21,440 Speaker 1: went out there, we ended up moving to South Dakota, 32 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:24,760 Speaker 1: and then went on this project to interview all the 33 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 1: people that worked on Mount Rushmore. There were three hundred 34 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:29,399 Speaker 1: and some people, most of the miners who built that 35 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:34,319 Speaker 1: freaking you know, you know, sculpture, that mountain, and that 36 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:36,920 Speaker 1: was like journalism. I went, I missed a lot of school, 37 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 1: ended up going to school to town with three hundred 38 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 1: and fifty people out there for a couple of years, 39 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:44,560 Speaker 1: and so I think that was the beginning. I never 40 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 1: really looked back. 41 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 3: Who was better for business? Obama a Trump? You know, 42 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 3: we're just talking about the business nothing now, it's just 43 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:55,639 Speaker 3: the business of what you do. Who was better for Okay? 44 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 1: So I'll tell you this being at that White House 45 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 1: for the transition, and by the way, I was in 46 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 1: the Oval Office the one and only time that Barack 47 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:10,799 Speaker 1: Obama and Donald Trump met, and that was on November 48 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:14,959 Speaker 1: tenth of twenty sixteen, two days after Trump won, Obama 49 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 1: invited him in, and you know, seeing the two of them, 50 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 1: I mean, we've never had two more different presidents, of 51 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:26,799 Speaker 1: course in American history together. The one time I saw 52 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 1: Donald Trump in a room where he was not in charge, 53 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:32,519 Speaker 1: because you know, Obama was the president and it was 54 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:35,120 Speaker 1: Obama's meeting. Obama invited you know, me and the other 55 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 1: press in the for the little photo op. At the end, 56 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:40,800 Speaker 1: Obama made the first comment, invited Trump to speak, and 57 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:44,640 Speaker 1: Trump almost seemed humble for a moment. He even said 58 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 1: some nice things about Obama. Lasted for about thirty six hours, 59 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:49,799 Speaker 1: still kept on saying some nice things about how well 60 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:53,480 Speaker 1: he was welcomed by missus. Oh and you know the president. 61 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:56,360 Speaker 1: But sort of who who's better for business? Let me 62 00:02:56,520 --> 00:03:02,440 Speaker 1: answer it this way with the advents of that. From 63 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 1: that moment on, the interest in what was going on 64 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 1: at the White House was completely off the charts. And 65 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 1: I'd been in there. I first worked. I was at 66 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:14,639 Speaker 1: CNN for eight years before I came to ABC Bay 67 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 1: during the Clinton year, so I did a little bit 68 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 1: of White House work in Clinton. I was there for 69 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 1: fair amount of Bush. But you knew that the world 70 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 1: was watching what you were doing, and it was reflected 71 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:29,680 Speaker 1: in the ratings and the business for sure. But you know, 72 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:31,400 Speaker 1: I've got kids, they were at that point, they were 73 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 1: in middle school, high school, and their friends would come 74 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 1: home and they would want to ask me questions about 75 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:38,240 Speaker 1: was that never happened before? They weren't asking me about, 76 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 1: you know, what was going on in the Obama White House. 77 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:42,800 Speaker 1: So is that good? I mean, I guess it's good 78 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 1: because the ratings are high. Is it good for the country, 79 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 1: You know, that's a whole, entirely different question. 80 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 4: It was unprecedented, right because I mean it was the 81 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:55,120 Speaker 4: executive producer, celebrity as a notorious eighties nineties celebrity becomes 82 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 4: president of the United States of America. 83 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I mean, and he and it was a show. 84 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 1: I mean, that's why my first book I wrote was 85 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 1: front wrote at the Trump Show and this is what 86 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 1: it was. And he cared, He tracked the ratings, he 87 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 1: beat up on the critics. You know, he programmed. He 88 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:14,440 Speaker 1: was the executive producer. That's why he went through so 89 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 1: many communications directors and press secretaries and all that, because 90 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:19,880 Speaker 1: he was he was the chief of staff. He was 91 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:23,719 Speaker 1: the spokesperson, he was the executive producer, he was the director, 92 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 1: and every day he was thinking how can I get 93 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 1: more attention? 94 00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 3: You know? 95 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:29,839 Speaker 1: One thing, you know that the Twitter thing was obviously 96 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:34,359 Speaker 1: something that defined the Trump years. But he would do 97 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 1: this little parlor trick. Sometimes we had people coming to 98 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 1: the dining room off the Oval office where he spent 99 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 1: most of his time, had a big TV is to 100 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 1: watch this and he would tweet and then count the 101 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:47,279 Speaker 1: minutes until the tweet was on the cables. 102 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:49,240 Speaker 3: Wow. Really, But that's the other thing too. 103 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:52,120 Speaker 4: He's also probably, yeah, probably the first president that had 104 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 4: the full benefit of social media. Like social media and 105 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 4: it's full of form as we see it now. He 106 00:04:57,240 --> 00:04:59,599 Speaker 4: had full advantage of that for since twenty sixteen. 107 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 1: Do you know how how many times the Obama campaign 108 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:03,680 Speaker 1: tweeted in two thousand and eight. 109 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 3: Once it wasn't. 110 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:09,320 Speaker 1: It it was a new thing, they tried it out. 111 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:12,040 Speaker 1: It was like, so, yeah, it was. And Obama made 112 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:14,159 Speaker 1: a lot of use of social media, to be sure. 113 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:16,480 Speaker 1: But Trump would do another thing, which is he had 114 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 1: this guy Dan Scavino who was actually he had been 115 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:23,320 Speaker 1: his caddie, you know, and he met him, met him 116 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 1: at one of his golf courses and been with him, 117 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:28,479 Speaker 1: the guy that's been with him the longest outside of 118 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 1: his family in that White House. And you know another 119 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 1: thing Trump would do, we'd have somebody and I witnessed 120 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 1: this myself. You know, he'd come into the Oval office 121 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 1: and you can see how we're doing. He's good, Dan, 122 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 1: what's the number? And then Dan would come out from 123 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:44,080 Speaker 1: this little office or outside and tell him the number 124 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 1: of Twitter, Facebook, Instagram followers he had, the combined number. 125 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:50,479 Speaker 1: He was tracking that by the minute. 126 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:54,760 Speaker 4: I feel like Donald Trump has changed politics forever. And 127 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:58,720 Speaker 4: I think he's actually if he's changed them in a 128 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:02,800 Speaker 4: sort of good way if other politicians are willing to adjust, 129 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 4: meaning that you don't have to be perfect, you know, 130 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 4: you can be a flawed elected official like I think 131 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:15,279 Speaker 4: he shows that the American people, you know, don't need 132 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 4: their politicians to be perfect, They just need them to 133 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 4: be effective. How come it seems like the Democrats haven't 134 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:20,719 Speaker 4: gotten that memo? 135 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:24,920 Speaker 1: Well, you know, one one thing that he did along 136 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 1: those lines is there was and and by the way, 137 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 1: this is for good and for bad and mostly frankly 138 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:33,600 Speaker 1: for bad. But there were instance where clearly was beneficial. 139 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:37,279 Speaker 1: It's kind of totally break down the bureaucracy and the 140 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 1: bureaucratic process, you know, because presidents, you know, the old 141 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:43,600 Speaker 1: thing is but by the time a decision gets to 142 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 1: the President's desk, it goes through you know, god knows 143 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 1: how many and and and it's a it's a decision, 144 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 1: and and it's made. But that process can take forever. 145 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:53,840 Speaker 1: The Abraham Accords, which was one of you know, the 146 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:57,760 Speaker 1: actual true successes of the Trump White House that brought 147 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:01,600 Speaker 1: together you know that that had between Israel and and 148 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 1: and and and and three Arab countries happened because they 149 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 1: basically bypassed all of the national security process. I mean, 150 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 1: there was no the State Department didn't really have any 151 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 1: input on it. It was basically you know, uh, you know, 152 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:16,560 Speaker 1: Jared had had a big roles on along. I had 153 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:19,400 Speaker 1: no real formal process in that and no role in that, 154 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:21,480 Speaker 1: and it got done. I think that would have been 155 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 1: caught up under Bush or under Obama. It just never 156 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:27,240 Speaker 1: would have gotten out of the out of the starting gates. 157 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 2: Do you think Biden could beat Trump? And if you 158 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 2: do feel that way, what does he have to do 159 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:33,480 Speaker 2: to make sure he has the support of the people 160 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 2: out there. 161 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 1: Uh, I actually think that Biden is probably the front runner, 162 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 1: even though it doesn't look like that in the polls. 163 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 1: Right now, why do you feel Trump has Uh? And 164 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 1: I document this and and in my I had a 165 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:52,600 Speaker 1: book out a few months ago, I'm tired of winning 166 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:56,160 Speaker 1: and I and I kind of go through. Trump does 167 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:59,240 Speaker 1: a great job of convincing everybody that he is the biggest, 168 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 1: the most powerful, the greatest winner of all time. He's 169 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 1: actually been a tremendous loser in politics. He's won one 170 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 1: election and that was twenty sixteen, and he led the 171 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 1: Republicans on a series of losses. And primarily you can 172 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 1: track the losses. Almost all the major defeats can be 173 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 1: tracked to something Trump did. Either. He was the one 174 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:22,480 Speaker 1: that basically chose the candidate. He meddled, you know, inserted 175 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 1: himself in a way that was not active. So he 176 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 1: doesn't have a good electoral track record at all. Now, 177 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 1: he did just run through the Republican nomination in what 178 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 1: turned out to be a very weak field. Most of 179 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 1: the candidates he was running against didn't even want to 180 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 1: like criticize it until it was way too late. Yeah, 181 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 1: Chris Christie, who had one fundamental flaw Christy had us. 182 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:47,240 Speaker 1: He was the guy that basically helped Trump win in 183 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 1: twenty sixteen. But so I think that Trump comes into 184 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:55,120 Speaker 1: this election with far more negatives than he had in 185 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:58,760 Speaker 1: twenty sixteen when he won, and certainly then in twenty 186 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:02,080 Speaker 1: twenty when he lost. The whole experience of what happened 187 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 1: through January sixth, and then what he did after he 188 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:07,200 Speaker 1: left the White House, and this is what I spent 189 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:10,160 Speaker 1: and I spent a lot of time documenting. I mean this, 190 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 1: this does not look like a former president of the 191 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:14,840 Speaker 1: United States, let alone somebody that has a chance of 192 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 1: coming back the You know, he wallowed in these conspiracy 193 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:23,440 Speaker 1: theories for more than two years that he had won 194 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 1: the election, and he actually believed and this is this 195 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:29,880 Speaker 1: is nuts, but he believed that he could be put 196 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:32,560 Speaker 1: back into the White House before the next election. He 197 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 1: believed that the world would see what had really happened 198 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:39,680 Speaker 1: in twenty twenty and Biden would be basically evicted and 199 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:43,720 Speaker 1: they would put him back in. You know, Dinner with 200 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:47,680 Speaker 1: Kanye and Nick Fuentes, you know, white supremacist a week 201 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:52,880 Speaker 1: after he announces his campaign selling NFTs, you know, these 202 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:55,200 Speaker 1: digital trading he looked like a look like a guy 203 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:56,920 Speaker 1: just trying to make some money off the whole thing. 204 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 1: So now he's leading in the poll, and he is 205 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:04,720 Speaker 1: consistently leading in the polls, and most importantly in the 206 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 1: in the polls of the battleground states. But I truly 207 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 1: think that most Americans have kind of checked out. And 208 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:15,880 Speaker 1: you know, for all that intense focus on what I 209 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 1: was doing when I was the White House correspondent, that 210 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:20,520 Speaker 1: I felt at the Trump White House, who's paying attention 211 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:23,560 Speaker 1: to what's going on in the Biden White House? You know, 212 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:25,800 Speaker 1: in the in the public at large? And who is 213 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:27,600 Speaker 1: really the media's fault? 214 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 4: Though I say that all the time because you know, 215 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 4: every single thing Donald Trump does, the media amplifies, but 216 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:37,719 Speaker 4: you have to search to see what the Biden administration 217 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 4: is even doing. 218 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 3: What Trump does is front page news headlines. 219 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:45,559 Speaker 1: Every yeah, a crazy tweet gets like dominant network. 220 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:48,840 Speaker 3: And that's what bugs me out about the left so much. 221 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 4: I expect that from the right they should push the 222 00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 4: narrative of the of the person that they want in 223 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 4: the White House. 224 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 3: But the left, why do you all respond to the 225 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:56,640 Speaker 3: right all the time. 226 00:10:56,720 --> 00:10:59,040 Speaker 1: Well, we're not the left or the right, But but 227 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:01,040 Speaker 1: but I I mean, I see, you know, look, I mean, 228 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:03,480 Speaker 1: so much of it is driven by what people are 229 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 1: interested in. I remember, like I had this like kind 230 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:11,840 Speaker 1: of righteous position that I was taking when when Trump 231 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 1: came in. It was like, we're not going to pay 232 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:16,160 Speaker 1: attention to the bullshit. We're going to talk about what 233 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:18,560 Speaker 1: he's doing, not what he's saying. It's kind of like 234 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 1: the way the way I the way I looked at it. 235 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 1: And one day he tweeted about Mika Brzhinsky, this horrible 236 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:28,720 Speaker 1: tweet saying that she had blood coming out of her face, 237 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 1: remember this whole thing that, you know, suggesting that she 238 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:33,199 Speaker 1: had had plastic surgery, and she was, you know, when 239 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 1: they came to visit them at more a Lago, and 240 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:38,800 Speaker 1: I said, you know what, We're not going to cover this. 241 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:41,080 Speaker 1: I mean, this is this doesn't matter. This doesn't matter 242 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 1: to anybody's life. And I made that case internally and 243 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 1: it worked for a little bit, and then the next thing, 244 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 1: you know, within a few hours, the Speaker of the 245 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:53,120 Speaker 1: House is making a statement condemning the Republican Speaker of 246 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 1: the House is making a statement condemning what Trump has said, 247 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:58,120 Speaker 1: and all these other people are coming out and she's 248 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 1: responding and you can't and what are you gonna do 249 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:04,480 Speaker 1: just ignore a story that's like I mean, in the end, 250 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:05,520 Speaker 1: I was covering it too. 251 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, but yeah, it's it's. 252 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 1: Look but Biden, I don't think that he is going 253 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:15,719 Speaker 1: to win because suddenly the world is going to look 254 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:19,280 Speaker 1: at his accomplishments as president, and there have been considerable accomplishments, 255 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:23,520 Speaker 1: some failures too. Obviously. I think that the reason that 256 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:27,400 Speaker 1: he is slightly favored, in my view, in this race 257 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 1: is because they will just tear Trump down methodically. I 258 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 1: mean that there's so much material for them to use. 259 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:39,760 Speaker 1: When this campaign gets going, it's not going to be 260 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:40,200 Speaker 1: so much. 261 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:41,679 Speaker 3: I don't think people. 262 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 4: Could Jonathan, because it's been the same He's been the 263 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:48,440 Speaker 4: same guy since twenty sixteen. There's nothing Trump is going 264 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:51,480 Speaker 4: to say are due frankly over the next five to 265 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:53,120 Speaker 4: six months that's going to make people all of a 266 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:54,079 Speaker 4: sudden be like, you know what. 267 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 3: He's a terrible person. The people who support him support. 268 00:12:56,559 --> 00:12:58,720 Speaker 1: Well, the people that support them support him. What percentage 269 00:12:58,760 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 1: of the country is. 270 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 3: That, I mean, it seems like fifty percent. 271 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:05,440 Speaker 1: I think you've got thirty five to forty percent. That 272 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:10,040 Speaker 1: really really support him, and you have another and we'll 273 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:13,320 Speaker 1: see if it's ten percent or it's more. Who says 274 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 1: you know what, I think that I was better off 275 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:18,599 Speaker 1: four years ago. You know, I didn't like all the 276 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:20,840 Speaker 1: stuff Trump did and said, but you know, the country 277 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:24,960 Speaker 1: was better infulation was lower. And that's where the battle 278 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:27,160 Speaker 1: will be is those people. And part of what a 279 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 1: big part of what the Biden people will do is 280 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 1: try to remind those people what Trump is all about, 281 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:33,960 Speaker 1: because I do think there has been a bit of 282 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:36,440 Speaker 1: a there has been some amnesia. I don't think that 283 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 1: people truly remember what he was all about. And my 284 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:43,679 Speaker 1: point in this book is it's not what he was 285 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:47,520 Speaker 1: about when he was president last time, it's how this 286 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 1: time will be different. And I truly believe it would be. 287 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 3: I believe that wholeheartedly. 288 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:54,240 Speaker 4: But do you think it's a good strategy to play 289 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:55,319 Speaker 4: the decency card? 290 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:55,600 Speaker 3: Though? 291 00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:59,120 Speaker 4: Like Joe Biden is more decent than Donald Trump. I 292 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:00,640 Speaker 4: don't think those people who cares. 293 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 1: When you hear it, Yeah, I don't think that's going 294 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 1: to get very But. 295 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:06,880 Speaker 4: That's all I see him banking on that he's more 296 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:09,920 Speaker 4: of a decent man. They don't care about that. 297 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:12,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, this man. He got elected after he said I 298 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:16,400 Speaker 3: grabbed you by the pussy. But they don't care about decency. 299 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:17,680 Speaker 1: When it was right frushing people trust people. 300 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 4: I don't understand. I don't understand that that that that logic. 301 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:22,080 Speaker 4: I don't think that's a good strategy. 302 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:25,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean, and especially with if you if 303 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 1: you watch any Fox News, they'll they'll make it seem 304 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 1: like the Biden family is the is the is the 305 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 1: main crime family in the country. I mean, so, so 306 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:37,520 Speaker 1: the other side is trying to tear down that sense 307 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 1: of decency, and they have been methodically for four years, 308 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:42,800 Speaker 1: more than four years. I mean, it's been going on since. 309 00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:44,960 Speaker 4: And the other thing the right does that I think 310 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:49,360 Speaker 4: is great is that they will constantly talk about things 311 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:52,920 Speaker 4: Trump has done. Whether they say, they'll say the border 312 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 4: was safe for under Trump. They'll talk about the economy 313 00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 4: under Trump. You know, yeah, they'll talk about it. 314 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:04,960 Speaker 1: I remember signed I remember, like that was unbelievable. When 315 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 1: is the present. 316 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 4: First step back? But I'm saying, they'll talk about all 317 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 4: the things he's actually done. Meanwhile, on the left, they'll 318 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:14,000 Speaker 4: just talk about how terrible of a person. 319 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 1: He Yeah, yeah, and this is this is a challenge 320 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:21,400 Speaker 1: because I you know, I mean I see it. I 321 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:23,240 Speaker 1: see what the what the Biden campaign will be, and 322 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:25,400 Speaker 1: it's going to be it's going to be a very 323 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 1: negative campaign. And and and frankly, Trump doesn't talk about 324 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 1: his accomplishments very much. All he talks about is ripping down. 325 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 1: I mean, I mean it's you know, I mean, it's 326 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 1: like this is going to be not the most uplifting 327 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 1: and you know, inspiring next six months. 328 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 2: What do you think about the effects of some of 329 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:46,440 Speaker 2: the celebrities like Steven A. Smith saying that he's relatable 330 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:49,560 Speaker 2: because of his arrest, or him sitting down with people 331 00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 2: like Kanye West and all these other artists that are 332 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:53,680 Speaker 2: going for him. Do you think that is a big 333 00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:56,280 Speaker 2: influence to help him out or do you think it 334 00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 2: had hurt him? 335 00:15:57,400 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 1: You know, I I I don't think I don't think 336 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 1: Kanye particularly helped him. I thought it was that whole 337 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:04,560 Speaker 1: episode was so bizarre. 338 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:08,400 Speaker 2: I mean it sales millions of records, had a number 339 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:11,400 Speaker 2: one record, So I know people hate him, but somebody 340 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:12,040 Speaker 2: supporting him. 341 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:15,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's interesting because he you know that that dinner, 342 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:20,640 Speaker 1: which and what did Kanye say afterwards that he was 343 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:25,960 Speaker 1: offering Trump to be his vice president. But but he 344 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:27,920 Speaker 1: he he brings Nick Flentese. This is a guy who 345 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 1: is like, you know, most people didn't know him until 346 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:31,560 Speaker 1: they saw the stories about this. But this guy is 347 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 1: like an actual white supremacist. I mean that that's his 348 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:39,800 Speaker 1: that's his brand. And Kanye has a thing for Adolf Hitler, 349 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:44,880 Speaker 1: which is really strange. And and so Trump gets you know, 350 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 1: everybody condemns this meeting. Trump to this day has not 351 00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:53,040 Speaker 1: criticized either of them and hasn't said like, maybe I 352 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 1: shouldn't have done that, or if I you know right, 353 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:56,520 Speaker 1: or I did it, I'll meet with anybody, but I 354 00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 1: don't believe in what they believe in. He hasn't done. 355 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 1: He hasn't not not not a hint of criticism. So 356 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:05,520 Speaker 1: he clearly senses that this is good. I think Trump. 357 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:09,199 Speaker 1: The other thing that he's done is he is he 358 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:13,840 Speaker 1: is afraid of alienating anybody who is he sees as 359 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:17,360 Speaker 1: his supporter, even even if they're totally off the deep end. 360 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:21,119 Speaker 1: So that's why he David Duke. He didn't get around 361 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:23,159 Speaker 1: to condemning David Duke until, by the way, after the 362 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:27,400 Speaker 1: Louisiana primary in twenty sixteen. But I mean only after 363 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 1: it really became I there's a crazy story that I 364 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 1: talked about in Front Round the Trump Show about how 365 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 1: you know, RAN's previous and Chris Christi and all these 366 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:38,440 Speaker 1: people that were around him were basically like just pleading 367 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 1: with him and begging him to just disavow the endorsement 368 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:46,080 Speaker 1: of David Duke because David Duke Hauld endorsed him, and 369 00:17:46,119 --> 00:17:48,119 Speaker 1: Trump didn't want to do it, didn't want to do it. 370 00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:50,240 Speaker 1: Finally he got browbeaten into doing it. By the way, 371 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 1: that's the stuff that he's not going to get brow 372 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:52,680 Speaker 1: beaten into doing anymore. 373 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:56,320 Speaker 3: No, that's normal. Yeah, why did the Grand Old Party 374 00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:56,879 Speaker 3: come to an end? 375 00:17:57,920 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 1: Well, I think you alluded to it when we started 376 00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:02,600 Speaker 1: this conversation. I think that the Republican Party is the 377 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:05,440 Speaker 1: Trump Party now. I mean there are elements and there 378 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:07,880 Speaker 1: are you know, little bits and pieces of the Old 379 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:09,720 Speaker 1: Party out there. I mean, look at look at the 380 00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 1: this debate over Ukraine. So this big debate of whether 381 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:15,320 Speaker 1: or not we're gonna you know, support Ukraine, continue to 382 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:20,640 Speaker 1: support Ukraine in the war against Russia, and it passed overwhelmingly. Eventually, 383 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:22,680 Speaker 1: you know, when when the when the Republicans finally agreed 384 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:24,720 Speaker 1: to have the vote overwhelming in the House, overwhelming in 385 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:28,400 Speaker 1: the Senate, but in the House a majority of Republicans 386 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:30,720 Speaker 1: voted against it. I mean, this is the party of Reagan, 387 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:35,840 Speaker 1: not anymore. It's the party of trumpture of. 388 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:36,680 Speaker 3: The Republican body. 389 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:42,440 Speaker 1: Well, I think the Republican Party has a real challenge once, 390 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:44,760 Speaker 1: you know, I mean when when Trump is gone. I 391 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:47,320 Speaker 1: think that he's done such a good job of basically 392 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:51,119 Speaker 1: decimating what was there before. I think that they've got 393 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 1: they've got some you know, some real definitional problems. What 394 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:58,120 Speaker 1: do they stand for? What? What does make America Great 395 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:00,520 Speaker 1: Again mean? Because if you look to remember what the 396 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:04,920 Speaker 1: what the Republican platform was in twenty twenty. 397 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:07,200 Speaker 3: And twenty make America Great Again? 398 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:10,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, there was no platform except for that for that statement. 399 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 1: There was no platform usually Like I mean, I've been 400 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:14,240 Speaker 1: covering conventions, right, you know, you have all the detailed 401 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:17,280 Speaker 1: what we stand for in domestic policy, foreign policy, you know, 402 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:20,640 Speaker 1: the cultural issues. Nothing. It was just like Trump's make 403 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:24,359 Speaker 1: America Great Again plan? So you know, what do they 404 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:27,480 Speaker 1: standing for? You know, when he's gone? Now, look, there 405 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:30,439 Speaker 1: are the Democrats have huge problems and you see, I 406 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 1: mean the fact that we see more Hispanic voters than 407 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:39,720 Speaker 1: we've seen voting Republican and in the reflection in the 408 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:43,679 Speaker 1: polls supporting more black voters. It's still you know, Democrats 409 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:47,199 Speaker 1: dominate both groups. But the fact that they're losing the 410 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:51,280 Speaker 1: fact that Democrats are losing supports among blacks and Latinos 411 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 1: to Donald Trump is a sign that Democrats have some 412 00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:55,679 Speaker 1: problems too. 413 00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:57,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that I think that might be a 414 00:19:57,080 --> 00:19:59,439 Speaker 3: little overstated, though. When I look at the numbers that 415 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:01,720 Speaker 3: they're saying for black people, it's like this, it's like yeah, 416 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 3: it's like, yeah, twenty two percent. I'm like, I don't 417 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:03,840 Speaker 3: see that. 418 00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:08,239 Speaker 1: No, no, but but it's but it's definitely you know, 419 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 1: it's up from near zero. 420 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 4: When you talk about what a Trump White House will 421 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:16,239 Speaker 4: look like if he gets back into White House, can 422 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:17,119 Speaker 4: you can you talk to that? 423 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:19,480 Speaker 3: Can you speak to Project twenty five? Yeah? 424 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:22,240 Speaker 1: So this is this is really important and I don't 425 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:25,800 Speaker 1: think people understand and this is something that I think 426 00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:30,080 Speaker 1: people have to understand before they go and vote when 427 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:34,439 Speaker 1: Trump comes back in, if he comes back in, the 428 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:37,679 Speaker 1: first test for anybody in a position of authority and 429 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 1: power is going to be loyalty to Donald Trump. I 430 00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:45,520 Speaker 1: spent a lot of time reporting and documenting the work 431 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:47,240 Speaker 1: of a guy named Johnny McEntee, who was the guy 432 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:49,200 Speaker 1: that carried Trump's bags. He was actually one of the 433 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:52,080 Speaker 1: first guys I met on the Trump campaign in twenty fifteen. 434 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:54,720 Speaker 1: He'd been like a very junior. He was a kid 435 00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:58,159 Speaker 1: just out of Yukon. He'd been a college quarterback. He 436 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:00,600 Speaker 1: came to volunteer for the Trump campaign right after Trump 437 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:03,679 Speaker 1: announced the first time around, and ended up carrying his 438 00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:06,080 Speaker 1: bags for much of his presidency. He came back in 439 00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:08,879 Speaker 1: twenty twenty. He had been briefly thrown out of the 440 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:11,399 Speaker 1: White House by the way, because he had issues related 441 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 1: to his gambling that were flagged by the FBI, so 442 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:17,240 Speaker 1: John Kelly, Trump's chief of staff, fired him. After Kelly 443 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:20,800 Speaker 1: was gone, McAtee came back and was putting charge of 444 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:25,600 Speaker 1: Presidential Personnel, basically the HR Department for the whole, you know, 445 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 1: executive branch of the US government. And he went about 446 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:31,879 Speaker 1: in the beginning of twenty twenty to try to do 447 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 1: a series of loyalty tests interviews. He sent his people out. 448 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:37,959 Speaker 1: Most of his buddies, like these are kids in their twenties, 449 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:41,480 Speaker 1: he was thirty years old at the time, to interview 450 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:46,000 Speaker 1: from cabinet secretaries on down, you know, testing their support 451 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 1: of Donald Trump. And he engineered the biggest thing he 452 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:52,840 Speaker 1: engineered was the firing of the Secretary of Defense right 453 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:55,800 Speaker 1: after the election, Esper. Remember Esper was the one that 454 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:58,200 Speaker 1: opposed the use of the use of the Insurrection Act 455 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:02,439 Speaker 1: to bring active duty troops in American cities during the 456 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 1: George Floyd protests. Fired top four people the Pentagon fired 457 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:12,960 Speaker 1: replaced by people devoted to Donald Trump. So now mcintee 458 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 1: is part of this thing called Project twenty twenty five, 459 00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:19,600 Speaker 1: which is to create a list of who can serve 460 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:22,639 Speaker 1: in the next Trump White House. And you're not going 461 00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:26,160 Speaker 1: to have people. Trump brought in some people of real stature, 462 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:32,119 Speaker 1: General Baddis, General Kelly, his White House Council Don McGann, 463 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:35,919 Speaker 1: later White House Counsel Pat Sibaloni, you know, later Bill Barr, 464 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 1: people that had served in previous administrations or were top 465 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:42,159 Speaker 1: military figures who ended up standing up to Trump and 466 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:48,159 Speaker 1: refusing his demands to break the law. Essentially, those people 467 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:49,960 Speaker 1: and people like them will not be back. It'll be 468 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:54,480 Speaker 1: people that Johnny mcintee and his and this group have 469 00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:57,480 Speaker 1: decided are truly loyal to the king. 470 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:01,040 Speaker 3: And what type of threat to democracy? Think that pulls? 471 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 1: Well, Look, do. 472 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:05,479 Speaker 4: You think it's overstated when people say that that he's 473 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:08,360 Speaker 4: a threat of democracy. 474 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:13,440 Speaker 1: I don't think it's overstated because he actually tried to 475 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:16,880 Speaker 1: bring down a presidential election, so he has done that. 476 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:21,439 Speaker 1: But I think that underappreciated. Is you heard the Supreme 477 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 1: Court arguments on this idea of immunity. And by the way, 478 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:28,560 Speaker 1: when Trump talks about immunity, and he talks about it 479 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:32,200 Speaker 1: a lot in his campaign rallies, he's not talking about 480 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,480 Speaker 1: acts tied to his official duties. He's talking about immunity. 481 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:40,080 Speaker 1: He's talking about shoot him on Fifth Avenue immunity. And 482 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:45,560 Speaker 1: so you have somebody who is making the case that 483 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:49,000 Speaker 1: the president is above the law, who is running to 484 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:51,200 Speaker 1: be president again. I think that raises real questions about 485 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:52,639 Speaker 1: what does the rule of law means. You know, there 486 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 1: is a theory, the unitary theory of the executive branch. 487 00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:58,320 Speaker 1: It is put forward by some serious legal you know, 488 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:03,760 Speaker 1: constitutional scholars that basically says that that the president is 489 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:06,359 Speaker 1: the law. So the way Nixon put it, you remember 490 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:09,640 Speaker 1: in his interview with David Frost after you know, after 491 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:13,320 Speaker 1: he had resigned. It's not illegal if the president does it. 492 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:15,399 Speaker 1: I mean, there's a whole theory that goes along with that, 493 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:19,639 Speaker 1: and that's what essentially Trump is putting out there. So 494 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:23,520 Speaker 1: I worry. You know, there was a big question that 495 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:29,400 Speaker 1: that that I explored after January sixth about what would 496 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 1: have happened if Mike Pence had done what Trump wanted 497 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:35,480 Speaker 1: and what Trump really wanted. By the way, it was 498 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:38,520 Speaker 1: Pence to just throw out those electoral votes and and 499 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:40,440 Speaker 1: and and declare him president. 500 00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:42,280 Speaker 3: Didn't he didn't have the power to do that though. 501 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:47,960 Speaker 1: Well, absolutely not. But who had the power to stop him? 502 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:50,560 Speaker 1: And this is a very this is like, this is 503 00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:54,239 Speaker 1: somewhat this is a mind blowing thing. And by the way, 504 00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:56,480 Speaker 1: the law has been changed now to be clarified. But 505 00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:58,840 Speaker 1: who had the power to stop him? Some people say, well, 506 00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:01,240 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court would have Stoppedhi. Well, first of all, 507 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:03,160 Speaker 1: it's not clear at all that the Supreme Court has 508 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:09,080 Speaker 1: any jurisdiction over the rules of Congress in counting electoral votes. 509 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,840 Speaker 1: But so let's say the Supreme Court, the Supreme Court 510 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:15,720 Speaker 1: in what army? I mean, there was I talked to 511 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:17,639 Speaker 1: you know, you know Judge Luttig who testified in the 512 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:20,080 Speaker 1: January sixth Committee. I talked to him about it, and 513 00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:22,680 Speaker 1: he he said, look, this would have plunged us into 514 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,840 Speaker 1: the greatest constitutional crisis that we have ever seen, because 515 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:28,840 Speaker 1: it is it is we didn't Pence did not have 516 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 1: the power to do that. But basically it's unclear if 517 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:33,320 Speaker 1: anybody had the power to stop him. 518 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:36,320 Speaker 3: You think, to jam it, what the hell does that mean? Though? 519 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:40,280 Speaker 4: So that means that there's no system in place to 520 00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:43,720 Speaker 4: prevent things like that from happening to chooses to do it. 521 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:48,200 Speaker 1: It means that we have a system of laws that 522 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:56,960 Speaker 1: also depends on there being people of honor and responsibility 523 00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:01,560 Speaker 1: to enforce those laws. Wow, and and it it's you know, 524 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:06,359 Speaker 1: you can if you have somebody who was in charge 525 00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:08,400 Speaker 1: of the entire system who was willing to just say 526 00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:11,280 Speaker 1: screw it, it's unclear what you do about. 527 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:13,120 Speaker 3: It, which he did. I mean, well, he at least 528 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 3: asked for it. 529 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:15,560 Speaker 4: He said, we should, you know, get rid of this, 530 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:17,879 Speaker 4: terminate the constitution and overdoor the results of an election. 531 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:23,560 Speaker 1: I asked John Kelly once way before twenty twenty. So 532 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 1: it was like while he was still Chief of Staff 533 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:30,640 Speaker 1: twenty eighteen or so, what would happen if Trump refused 534 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:32,840 Speaker 1: to leave? I mean it turned out to be kind 535 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:35,919 Speaker 1: of a the would become the question. But I was 536 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:38,159 Speaker 1: just asking hypothetical, and he's like, oh no, no, no, 537 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:40,639 Speaker 1: He's like, there are people that will make him go. 538 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:41,960 Speaker 1: It's like, what do you mean there are people. It's 539 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:45,040 Speaker 1: like he could chain himself to the Resolute and there 540 00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:46,800 Speaker 1: was somebody, there would be people that would come in 541 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:50,160 Speaker 1: and cut the chains and escort him out. But I'm 542 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:50,760 Speaker 1: not who. 543 00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:53,680 Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't believe it. Yeah yeah, yeah, who Yeah, 544 00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:55,280 Speaker 4: especially if they're on his side. But you know, some 545 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 4: people do feel like presidents should be immune from certain crimes. 546 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:00,560 Speaker 4: Like there's people that a point to what's going on 547 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 4: in New York and they'd be like, that's nothing to 548 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:04,320 Speaker 4: take a guy. Yeah, that's nothing to have a president 549 00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:06,680 Speaker 4: on trial for my co Holts here says he feels 550 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 4: like he should be immune to some some crimes. 551 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:11,080 Speaker 2: I don't say that. I just said I don't. So 552 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:14,160 Speaker 2: I said I don't think a president will go to jail. 553 00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:15,359 Speaker 3: That's not what you said. 554 00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:18,680 Speaker 2: What I said, Yes, I said, I said immune from 555 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:19,159 Speaker 2: some crimes. 556 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:20,680 Speaker 1: I don't think he will go to jail. That that's 557 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:21,320 Speaker 1: my whole thing. 558 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:21,560 Speaker 3: I don't. 559 00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:23,159 Speaker 1: I don't think. And as I was gonn asked, do 560 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:24,000 Speaker 1: you think he'll go to jail. 561 00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:25,639 Speaker 3: I don't think Trump will. 562 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:27,440 Speaker 1: Go to jail. Even if he's fould guilty on all charges. 563 00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:28,760 Speaker 1: I don't think he'll go to jail. Let me let 564 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,720 Speaker 1: me take the first part of that. Is there a 565 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:33,960 Speaker 1: case for a president being immune from some things? I 566 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,000 Speaker 1: think there is a serious argument on this, and that's 567 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:37,879 Speaker 1: why you had a Supreme Court debate in there. And 568 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:40,600 Speaker 1: this is it's something that's net the Supreme Court is 569 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:44,760 Speaker 1: never defined and the Constitution doesn't give you any any 570 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:50,359 Speaker 1: guidance on you know, the example of Barack Obama taking 571 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:54,440 Speaker 1: out on Alackey in a drone strike, ordering the drone strike. 572 00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:57,399 Speaker 1: He was an American citizen. He was also an al 573 00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:03,920 Speaker 1: Qaeda terrorist. So you don't want a situation where Obama 574 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:07,199 Speaker 1: leaves office and then he's you know, brought up on 575 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:09,600 Speaker 1: charges for killing an American with a drune strike. So 576 00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:12,760 Speaker 1: the so there are there is gray area here. By 577 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,479 Speaker 1: the way, what and this is not the constitution, it's 578 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:18,920 Speaker 1: it's uh, it's what they call an OLC memo. It's 579 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:23,680 Speaker 1: it's the Justice Department has established policies going back to Nixon, Uh, 580 00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:28,600 Speaker 1: that you cannot prosecute a sitting president. They have to 581 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:30,159 Speaker 1: wait and which which kind of makes sense because you 582 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:31,960 Speaker 1: don't want the and and and and. By the way, 583 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,440 Speaker 1: let's say, just to take your hypothetical a little further, 584 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:36,600 Speaker 1: let's leave aside this New York case, which is a 585 00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:40,320 Speaker 1: little strange, but the Georgia case, which would mean real 586 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:42,320 Speaker 1: jail time, this case might not mean in jail time, 587 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:46,239 Speaker 1: even if he's guilty, probably won't in New York. What 588 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 1: do you do if a guy is because the Georgia 589 00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:51,520 Speaker 1: trial is going to happen, you know, not this year. 590 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:53,760 Speaker 1: It's gonna it's it's gonna it's gonna be put back 591 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,200 Speaker 1: a while. But are they gonna do it? If Trump 592 00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:59,800 Speaker 1: gets elected and he's president and and and Georgia sentences 593 00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:03,239 Speaker 1: him to fifteen years in prison, what is the Georgia like, Uh, 594 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:05,920 Speaker 1: you know, the state police going to go up and 595 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 1: uh and handcoff them. No. No, So I think that 596 00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:14,560 Speaker 1: I don't think we'll ever see Donald Trump actually behind bars. Now. 597 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:17,360 Speaker 1: He may be convicted, and there may be you know, 598 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:22,080 Speaker 1: if if you were trying to imagine what would be 599 00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:24,360 Speaker 1: best for the country. You can imagine a situation where 600 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:28,600 Speaker 1: he's convicted and the president pardons him. He expresses That's 601 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:29,120 Speaker 1: what I was saying. 602 00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:32,640 Speaker 2: I was saying, I can't see a sitting president or 603 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:34,160 Speaker 2: a president of the United States going to. 604 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,320 Speaker 1: Jail house arrested mar A Lago. 605 00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:36,840 Speaker 3: Yeah. 606 00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:40,000 Speaker 2: I just can't see that happening, not here, not how 607 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:41,440 Speaker 2: it would look to the world. I just can't see 608 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:41,880 Speaker 2: that happening. 609 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:45,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, no I I And and then what 610 00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:47,400 Speaker 1: does the Secret Service do? Because the Secret Service is 611 00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:52,600 Speaker 1: responsible for protecting a former president. Are they sitting in 612 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:54,960 Speaker 1: the cell or maybe outside the cell or what's it? 613 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:58,160 Speaker 1: I mean, it's it raises some really strange question. 614 00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:00,880 Speaker 4: Yeah, America didn't prepare for any of this. America never 615 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,480 Speaker 4: thought they would see. We never thought we would be 616 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:08,040 Speaker 4: here with you know, former president are a potential future president. 617 00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:08,400 Speaker 3: Yeah. 618 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:12,000 Speaker 1: I mean I've been covering politics for a long time, 619 00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:18,080 Speaker 1: and some of the most memorable speeches that I've ever 620 00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:20,960 Speaker 1: seen political speeches were speeches that were given by people 621 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:23,719 Speaker 1: who lost. And one of them that I is like 622 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:26,160 Speaker 1: burned in my brain is because I covered every minute 623 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:30,160 Speaker 1: of the campaign was al Gore. After the Supreme Court 624 00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:34,280 Speaker 1: shut down the Florida case, the election was over, Gore 625 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:37,360 Speaker 1: gave the best speech of that campaign, and it was 626 00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,120 Speaker 1: gracious and it was generous. He was bitter. His people 627 00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:42,040 Speaker 1: were ready to his people were ready to storm the 628 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:44,160 Speaker 1: you know, maybe not break into the Capitol, but they 629 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:46,479 Speaker 1: were I mean, I mean the anger among Democrats all 630 00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:49,600 Speaker 1: over the country. And he was angry, and people were angry, 631 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:51,720 Speaker 1: and some of them didn't want to even you know, 632 00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:54,120 Speaker 1: to wanted to continue to challenge the Supreme Court. And 633 00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:56,160 Speaker 1: he came out and he said it's over. And not 634 00:30:56,200 --> 00:31:00,440 Speaker 1: only is it over, but I offered or whatever I 635 00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:02,680 Speaker 1: can do to help George Bush be a successful president. 636 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:05,120 Speaker 1: And then the other another there have been several of these, 637 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:07,240 Speaker 1: but another one that really sticks to me was John 638 00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:13,040 Speaker 1: McCain when he lost to Obama and he congratulates Obama, 639 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:16,760 Speaker 1: and the people in that crowd start booing, and he says, no, no, no, no, no. 640 00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:19,760 Speaker 1: So what we do We not only congratulated and wish 641 00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:22,600 Speaker 1: him well, but we must all work with him to 642 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:25,760 Speaker 1: make him a successful president. And then that's what we 643 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:28,239 Speaker 1: that's what we've come to be used to, you know, 644 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:30,600 Speaker 1: is an idea that there are hard fought campaigns and 645 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:33,160 Speaker 1: then for a minute at least before the next campaign, 646 00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:35,640 Speaker 1: you know things are over. But we've never had a 647 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:38,960 Speaker 1: situation or even consumplate a situation where somebody would refuse 648 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:41,400 Speaker 1: to accept the results of an election. 649 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:43,880 Speaker 4: Do you feel if al Gore would have fought back 650 00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:47,560 Speaker 4: in two thousand that might have presented prevented what we're 651 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:50,920 Speaker 4: currently seeing now, because there's plenty of people who feel 652 00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:54,160 Speaker 4: like that that that election was stolen from alga. 653 00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:54,720 Speaker 3: Yeah. 654 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:56,840 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think he had a He had 655 00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:59,680 Speaker 1: a constitutional or illegal avenue to do it, which is 656 00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:03,320 Speaker 1: why he conceded. So I think that that I think 657 00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:07,920 Speaker 1: that would have backfired by the way I was when 658 00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:14,920 Speaker 1: when Bush was inaugurated on January twentieth, Gore was of 659 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:17,400 Speaker 1: course up on the stage and you know, as they 660 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:22,840 Speaker 1: always do, it was a really bitter and cold, you know, 661 00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:25,920 Speaker 1: winter day in January, and I was on you know, 662 00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:29,000 Speaker 1: they do this thing if you ever watched the presidential inauguration, 663 00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:31,280 Speaker 1: there are a couple of flatbed trucks that go in 664 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:35,440 Speaker 1: front of the presidential limo and you usually have you know, 665 00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:38,640 Speaker 1: network correspondent to network correspondents on each one and we 666 00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:41,480 Speaker 1: kind of we follow along, we do commentary, and we 667 00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:43,480 Speaker 1: have the cameras that you I was it was like 668 00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:46,000 Speaker 1: it was a frightening ride actually because there were more 669 00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:48,680 Speaker 1: protesters on the on the parade route than there were 670 00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:51,400 Speaker 1: Bush supporters, and at one point they started to throw 671 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:56,840 Speaker 1: eggs at the presidential limo, and you know, you did 672 00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:59,160 Speaker 1: feel for a moment like the country was a little bit, 673 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,200 Speaker 1: a little bit on edge, and Gore, to his credit, 674 00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:04,680 Speaker 1: I think, kept it, kept it steady. No, I think 675 00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:06,239 Speaker 1: the thing that would have I mean, we're getting off 676 00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:08,600 Speaker 1: this is a totally different subject. But the thing that 677 00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:11,520 Speaker 1: would have prevented where we are now was what that 678 00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:17,000 Speaker 1: president did two years later, which was, you know, invade Iraq. 679 00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:19,320 Speaker 1: I mean the you know that the Iraq War, which 680 00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:22,400 Speaker 1: leads to I mean, you probably don't have a President 681 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,880 Speaker 1: Obama and you don't have a President Trump either if 682 00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:26,680 Speaker 1: that hadn't happened. 683 00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:28,800 Speaker 3: Oh, you think that Obama was a. 684 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:33,520 Speaker 4: What would you call that, like a I want like 685 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:35,640 Speaker 4: a reaction from people like I want to dig, an 686 00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:36,960 Speaker 4: extreme reaction, Like. 687 00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:38,760 Speaker 1: It wasn't that he was an extreme reaction, is that 688 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:42,680 Speaker 1: he was one of the few Democrats who were adamantly 689 00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:45,280 Speaker 1: opposed to that war from the start, and that's how 690 00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:47,360 Speaker 1: he made his name. If you remember, like all the 691 00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:52,480 Speaker 1: you know, that war was supported by Hillary Clinton, by 692 00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:55,360 Speaker 1: John Kerry by I mean that that vote, it was 693 00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:59,320 Speaker 1: a very bipartisan vote in favor of the invasion of Iraq. 694 00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:00,000 Speaker 3: Ooh. 695 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:02,800 Speaker 4: So with that said, you know when this upcoming election, 696 00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:05,280 Speaker 4: you see all of these kids on these college campuses. Yeah, 697 00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:08,439 Speaker 4: and you know, they're very anti war, like, they're very 698 00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:10,960 Speaker 4: against you know, all of these various wars that are happening. 699 00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:14,799 Speaker 4: You know, you know Joe Biden funding Israel's military, you know, 700 00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:18,759 Speaker 4: funding Ukraine. Like, they're just against war. Well, how do 701 00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:20,680 Speaker 4: you think that's going to have an impact in November? 702 00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:23,359 Speaker 4: I think neither one that the presidents are against. 703 00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:28,320 Speaker 1: No, no, I mean you know they certainly, Uh, Donald 704 00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:30,480 Speaker 1: Trump is not going to police these people more than 705 00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:35,719 Speaker 1: more than Biden. I think it's a real problem for 706 00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:40,040 Speaker 1: Biden and for the Democrats, Uh, for two reasons. One 707 00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:45,359 Speaker 1: is that he needs he needs he needs support from 708 00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:48,520 Speaker 1: core Democratic constituencies. In one of those is young voters, 709 00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:51,760 Speaker 1: and young voters have turned decisively against him almost entirely 710 00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:55,440 Speaker 1: because of and and he can say, look, we've forgiven 711 00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:58,800 Speaker 1: student loans. That's not what they I mean, they're they're 712 00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:02,399 Speaker 1: fired up about this. If they either stay home or 713 00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:05,799 Speaker 1: you know, vote for a you know, Bobby Kennedy or 714 00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:10,319 Speaker 1: or you know, you know, vote third party, that's a 715 00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:13,279 Speaker 1: major problem. Uh was on a. 716 00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:16,040 Speaker 4: Cluck Atlanta campus Friday, and a lot of those kids 717 00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:17,439 Speaker 4: say they voting for our kid junior. 718 00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:21,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, and and and that's that's that's a 719 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:25,360 Speaker 1: real problem. But the other thing is the feeling of it. 720 00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:28,080 Speaker 1: We'll see where these protests go. But you know, the 721 00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:30,360 Speaker 1: the wall to wall coverage that you're seeing on you know, 722 00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:33,239 Speaker 1: cable news, and you get the sense like things are 723 00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:36,799 Speaker 1: falling apart and it's lawless, and and that place right 724 00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:40,480 Speaker 1: into Trump. It's like, look, this is Biden's America. Look 725 00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:41,160 Speaker 1: at these people. 726 00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:42,400 Speaker 3: Just the images. 727 00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:43,600 Speaker 1: Just the images. 728 00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:46,279 Speaker 4: Yeah, and I wonder, you know, when when you rile 729 00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:49,120 Speaker 4: all of these kids up and then you tell them, okay, 730 00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:51,040 Speaker 4: but in November, we're gonna need you to turn around 731 00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:51,600 Speaker 4: and vote for Biden. 732 00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:52,719 Speaker 3: How are you gonna flip that switch? 733 00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:53,000 Speaker 1: So far? 734 00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:55,560 Speaker 4: Are even what's going on in Michigan where you're telling people, 735 00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:57,719 Speaker 4: you know, go right in non committed or whatever, I 736 00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:00,480 Speaker 4: can't remember. How are you gonna flip the switch come November? Yeah, 737 00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:04,160 Speaker 4: after you've gotten him so energized to go against Biden. 738 00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:07,160 Speaker 1: It's it's interesting. So you've had like all these numbers. 739 00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:08,839 Speaker 1: You had it in Michigan, but you also had it 740 00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:13,440 Speaker 1: in Minnesota, in North Carolina, in Virginia where Democrats were 741 00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:15,799 Speaker 1: not voting for Biden in a primary where he had 742 00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:19,080 Speaker 1: no opposition. Sometimes it was noncommitted. Sometimes they were voting 743 00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:24,120 Speaker 1: for you know, you know, no name candidates. And at 744 00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:27,480 Speaker 1: the same time, you've had Trump running without any opposition 745 00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:30,240 Speaker 1: now and Nikki Haley is still getting upwards of twenty 746 00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:32,279 Speaker 1: percent of the vote, which she did in Pennsylvania, and 747 00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:37,520 Speaker 1: she's not running. So twenty twenty had massive turnout, twenty 748 00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:41,200 Speaker 1: sixteen had massive turnout. Trump really turned people out, both 749 00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:44,080 Speaker 1: in terms of for him and people opposed to him. 750 00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:46,919 Speaker 1: What's this election going to be? I mean, this could 751 00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:49,120 Speaker 1: be a very different situation. 752 00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:50,680 Speaker 4: Whose votes do you think are going to be the 753 00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:53,560 Speaker 4: determining factor? Like will it be women because they're they're 754 00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:55,920 Speaker 4: they're fired up that Roe v. Wade got overturned. Is 755 00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:58,160 Speaker 4: it going to be African Americans? Is it gonna be Latino, 756 00:36:58,200 --> 00:36:59,919 Speaker 4: it's gonna be you voters, like, who do you think. 757 00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:05,359 Speaker 1: Look, you've got six, maybe seven battleground states, and if 758 00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:09,280 Speaker 1: it's if it looks anything like the last two elections, 759 00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:13,160 Speaker 1: it could be a matter of one hundred thousand votes 760 00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:16,120 Speaker 1: spread across those states or maybe even less. So any 761 00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:19,920 Speaker 1: one of those groups can be decisive. But certainly suburban 762 00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:25,920 Speaker 1: women are a huge group of voters. It turned pretty 763 00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:31,239 Speaker 1: decisively against Donald Trump in twenty twenty. And we're more agnostic. 764 00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:34,160 Speaker 1: I mean, he didn't win them in twenty sixteen, but 765 00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:36,719 Speaker 1: they turned decisively against him in twenty twenty. I think 766 00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:39,400 Speaker 1: that's probably the most important, you know, single group. But 767 00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:43,040 Speaker 1: any I mean you could have I mean Georgia, I mean, 768 00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:46,560 Speaker 1: Arizona states were it's just a matter of a few 769 00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:47,240 Speaker 1: thousand votes. 770 00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:50,720 Speaker 4: Yeah, you went to the White House courtspondent then this weekend. Yeah, 771 00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:53,760 Speaker 4: and Joe Biden said he was frustrated with how the media, 772 00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:56,560 Speaker 4: you know, covered him, But he just made me put 773 00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:59,160 Speaker 4: out a challenge for the media to do better when 774 00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:02,040 Speaker 4: they're talking about you know that Trump is what'd you 775 00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:02,600 Speaker 4: think of it? 776 00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:07,279 Speaker 1: You know, I I think there's something to that. I 777 00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:10,760 Speaker 1: never put too much stock into presidents criticizing the media 778 00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:13,520 Speaker 1: because they they always do it. It's it's it's the 779 00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:14,239 Speaker 1: easiest thing. 780 00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:14,880 Speaker 3: You know. 781 00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:16,919 Speaker 1: If only they were covering what I was doing better, 782 00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:18,360 Speaker 1: I'd be you know, I'd be out of a seventy 783 00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:20,759 Speaker 1: five percent approval rating. I don't think that that's the case, 784 00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:24,920 Speaker 1: but I do think that this is this is a 785 00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:30,400 Speaker 1: really difficult election for journalists to cover because it's not 786 00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:33,040 Speaker 1: like any other election. It's not even like twenty or 787 00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:38,120 Speaker 1: twenty sixteen. This is different, you know. And if we 788 00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:41,440 Speaker 1: are simply like doing horse race coverage and who's up 789 00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:42,880 Speaker 1: in the polls and who's it down, and what the 790 00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:46,759 Speaker 1: latest side by side policy differentially, you're not getting at 791 00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:50,279 Speaker 1: the point, and the point Biden was getting at is 792 00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:55,600 Speaker 1: that you know, Trump is in a real way running 793 00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:58,960 Speaker 1: on an anti democratic agenda. And it's not just what 794 00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:01,919 Speaker 1: happened on January, but it's all this talk of using 795 00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:05,600 Speaker 1: the power of the federal government for retribution and revenge 796 00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:13,000 Speaker 1: against anybody who you know has crossed him. Uh, it's 797 00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:15,040 Speaker 1: it's it's a it's a different election. It can't really 798 00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:16,040 Speaker 1: be covered in the same way. 799 00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:17,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, none of this is normal. So why do we 800 00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:18,120 Speaker 3: act like it is. 801 00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:21,280 Speaker 1: It's it's not normal. And I worry in some ways 802 00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:23,400 Speaker 1: that the country seems to be kind of sleep walking 803 00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:26,879 Speaker 1: towards you know, something that nobody's really come to terms 804 00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:31,520 Speaker 1: with because they're you know, this, this is, this is 805 00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:34,799 Speaker 1: And by the way, you made a point when we 806 00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:39,680 Speaker 1: spoke a few months ago about you know, the kind 807 00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:42,239 Speaker 1: of cried, crying wolf notion that we have seen. And 808 00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:44,880 Speaker 1: for how many cycles have we heard people say this 809 00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:47,759 Speaker 1: is the most consequential election of our lifetimes. You know, 810 00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:51,160 Speaker 1: Mitt Romney is like, and I destroy America if he's elected. 811 00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:53,760 Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, now you're getting to an election 812 00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:56,880 Speaker 1: that actually is the most consequential of our lifetimes. And 813 00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:58,880 Speaker 1: people are like, Okay, I've. 814 00:39:58,320 --> 00:39:59,000 Speaker 3: Heard this before. 815 00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:02,960 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, wow, Well this book is out right 816 00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:03,640 Speaker 2: now tired. 817 00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:06,000 Speaker 3: You could definitely pick Donald Trump at the end of 818 00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:06,800 Speaker 3: the Grand Party. 819 00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:08,240 Speaker 1: Hey, thank you. 820 00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:09,400 Speaker 3: Absolutely, We're gonna. 821 00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:10,520 Speaker 1: Need you back up here when we get closer to 822 00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:11,160 Speaker 1: that November. 823 00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:11,720 Speaker 3: Anytime. 824 00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:13,440 Speaker 1: I'm up here, I'm up here a lot. So this 825 00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:15,399 Speaker 1: is fun. It's good. And you're right up the road 826 00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:15,960 Speaker 1: from gm A. 827 00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:19,919 Speaker 2: So Jonathan, call ladies and gentlemen. It's the breakfast club, 828 00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:20,360 Speaker 2: good morning 829 00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:24,080 Speaker 1: Wake that ass up in the morning breakfast club