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Speaker 1: I joined the Obama administration during the financial crisis, and

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Speaker 1: I'll share a quick story about one of my early

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Speaker 1: interactions with the president because there were a number of

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Speaker 1: other colleagues around and one of them called me Wally,

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Speaker 1: and the President looked and he said, that's not his name.

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Speaker 1: And he turns to me and he's like, what does

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Speaker 1: your mother call you? I was like, mister President calls

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Speaker 1: me Ada Walach, I'm going to call him that.

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Speaker 2: To all of my listening audiences, I want to thank

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Speaker 2: you for tuning in to my next chapter. I want

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Speaker 2: you to know that you can have a next chapter.

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Speaker 2: And I think that inspiration comes from information. Accurate information

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Speaker 2: is the catalysts of great decisions. You cannot make great

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Speaker 2: decisions if you have inaccurate information. Acurd information has become

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Speaker 2: hard to find in the times that we're living in.

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Speaker 2: With technology has come many many good things, but it

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Speaker 2: has also come the deficit of true accurate information. So

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Speaker 2: to bring you accurate information, I am very proud to

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Speaker 2: have as a guest today, Wile at a mo to

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Speaker 2: those of you who don't know. And Walle made history

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Speaker 2: as the first black American to serve as the United

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Speaker 2: States Deputy Secretary of the Treasury, where his leadership helped

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Speaker 2: steer the nation throughout turbulent economic landscapes. Before that, he

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Speaker 2: was the first president of the Obama Foundation and a

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Speaker 2: key architect of international economic strategy, serving as Deputy National

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Speaker 2: Security Advisor for International Economics. And would you welcome my

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Speaker 2: guest walle at a.

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Speaker 1: Mo It is always great to be with you, Bishop,

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me.

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Speaker 2: I am pleased to have you, Excited to have you

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Speaker 2: anytime we get an opportunity to talk and I can

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Speaker 2: learn something and share something with our audience from your experiences,

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Speaker 2: your very very rich experiences. It is very very very

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Speaker 2: very important to us. We are here at Martha's Vineyard

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Speaker 2: in Oak Bluffs where the first many not the first,

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Speaker 2: but many slaves own property and continue to own property

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Speaker 2: at a time back in the eighteen hundreds that that

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Speaker 2: was really hard to come by, and it's become a

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Speaker 2: bit of a mecca. What an appropriate place to have

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Speaker 2: a conversation with you. Chapter one, working with presidents of

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Speaker 2: Nigerian descent has worked in this country for the United

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Speaker 2: States of America on various levels and been able to

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Speaker 2: share your expertise. And I'm going to start off by

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Speaker 2: talking to you. You served as the president for the Obamas,

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Speaker 2: you served a foundation, you also served as a up

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Speaker 2: be the secretary for the Biden administration. What was it

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Speaker 2: like to work in that environment?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think the reality was that it was

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Speaker 1: definitely a blessing and it was the type of you know,

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Speaker 1: there's this thing that my pastor robinsons, which is that

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Speaker 1: God doesn't God doesn't call the prepared, he calls the available.

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Speaker 1: And that was definitely true for me because I joined

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Speaker 1: the Obama administration during the financial crisis, and at that

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Speaker 1: point I went to go work for Tim Guidon and

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Speaker 1: the Secretary of the Treasury. And the reason I got

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Speaker 1: that job was because I was working for a friend

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Speaker 1: of his at the moment when they were desperate to

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Speaker 1: find people who knew anything about economics to go work

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Speaker 1: in the administration. And as you all know, the people

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Speaker 1: who were hit the hardest by that financial crisis were

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Speaker 1: black and brown homeowners, including in the communities that I

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Speaker 1: was from. I'm from a part of Los Angeles east

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Speaker 1: of Los Angeles called the Eland Empire. You could walk

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Speaker 1: down my street and you could see the foreclosure signs

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Speaker 1: across that street. And the opportunity I had to try

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Speaker 1: and contribute in a small way to addressing that crisis

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Speaker 1: was definitely something that wasn't of my own making, but

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Speaker 1: was because divine intervention met the skills that I had

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Speaker 1: developed in life. And I spent a great deal of

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Speaker 1: time working in the Treasure Department before getting a chance

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Speaker 1: to work for the President in the White House. And

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Speaker 1: I'll share a quick story about one of my early

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Speaker 1: interactions with the President because it spoke to a conversation

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Speaker 1: we just had. And I was in the Oval office

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Speaker 1: with the President and there were a number of other

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Speaker 1: colleagues around and one of them called me Wally and

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Speaker 1: the President looked and he said, that's not his name,

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Speaker 1: and they said, no, no, mister President. They thought maybe

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Speaker 1: he was having a moment. They're like, no, that's his name.

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Speaker 1: And he turns to me and he's like, what does

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Speaker 1: your mother call you? I was like, mister president calls

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Speaker 1: me Ade walle, I'm gonna call him that. And it

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Speaker 1: was one of those moments where you're sitting in the

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Speaker 1: Oval Office with the President, who, like no other president before,

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Speaker 1: understood your lived experience in a way that didn't need

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Speaker 1: to be said, and It struck me as one of

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Speaker 1: those few moments in life where as a black professional,

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Speaker 1: you were fully seen. And that doesn't for those of

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Speaker 1: you who have been in professional settings your entire life,

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Speaker 1: that doesn't happen often. We're often in settings where our

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Speaker 1: lived experiences, the pain, the beauty of them, are not

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Speaker 1: fully seen. And it was such an honor to get

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Speaker 1: a chance to work for a president who saw all

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Speaker 1: of me.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I can understand that I'm going to take the

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Speaker 2: risk of embarrassing myself, but I would assume that if

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Speaker 2: your name was ade Walle would be urbane true. Oh good, good, see,

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Speaker 2: I'm getting good.

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Speaker 1: You're better than good.

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Speaker 2: I think you've had an amazing experience. I was speaking

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Speaker 2: to a friend of mine about you from Nigeria and

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Speaker 2: he made a statement about you that was quite memorable.

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Speaker 2: He said, we wear him as our crown.

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Speaker 1: That is too kind for them to say.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but it speaks to the pride of the

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Speaker 2: Nigerian people, of the roles that you have played in

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Speaker 2: the dignity with which you have carried yourself through turbulent times.

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Speaker 2: As I remember the financial crisis that the Obama stepped

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Speaker 2: into started up under the bush administration. So it started

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Speaker 2: up under the Bush administration bled over into the early

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Speaker 2: years of the Obama administration, and they took the administration

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Speaker 2: at one of the toughest times of history at that time.

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Speaker 2: I don't know whether it ravels we're going through now,

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Speaker 2: but at that time it was a really, really tough

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Speaker 2: time and you were in a hot seat. That kind

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Speaker 2: of stress, that kind of pressure, that kind of accountability,

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Speaker 2: that kind of scrutiny, that kind of making yourself available

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Speaker 2: for criticism as a as a as a man of

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Speaker 2: any color, but particularly an African man. How did you

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Speaker 2: manage to adjust to that kind of constant scrutiny over

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Speaker 2: every decision you made?

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Speaker 1: And I think, frankly, in the Obama administration it was

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Speaker 1: far easier than in the Biden administration a few years later.

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Speaker 1: I think it rhymes because we inherited a crisis in

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Speaker 1: the Obama administration from the Bush administration of financial crisis.

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Speaker 1: We inherited a pandemic from the Trump administration when we

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Speaker 1: came in office, and I had gone at that point

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Speaker 1: from being a relatively junior member of the Obama administration

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Speaker 1: when I started to being the first black Deputy Secretary

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Speaker 1: of the Treasury in the Biden administration, and I think

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Speaker 1: there was a great deal scrutiny. My boss at that

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Speaker 1: point was a woman named Janet Yellen, who already had

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Speaker 1: history books written about her. And here I was, at

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Speaker 1: that point in my thirties, a black man taking this

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Speaker 1: job of being the chief operating officer of a department

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Speaker 1: of one hundred thousand people responsible for getting money into

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Speaker 1: the hands of all Americans. And the reality, while you

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Speaker 1: would want to pretend that it was because of me,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't. I stood on the shoulders of so many

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Speaker 1: people who invested in me, but also came before me

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Speaker 1: in roles. Think about the investment President Obama made in me,

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Speaker 1: Susan Rice, the work that people like you have done

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Speaker 1: to create opportunities for my generation. So I was, in

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Speaker 1: lots of ways. You're right in a place where there

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Speaker 1: was a great deal of scrutiny. But I wouldn't have

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Speaker 1: even been in that place but for the fact that

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Speaker 1: other people had come before me. And the thing that

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Speaker 1: got me through it was the fact that even in

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Speaker 1: a role like that, there were people like you and

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Speaker 1: others who were both praying for me and supporting me

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Speaker 1: as I was doing the work, and there were tough

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Speaker 1: moments where we made decisions that not everybody agreed with,

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Speaker 1: where I made mistakes like any other human. But the

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Speaker 1: difference between me making a mistake and the fourteen other

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Speaker 1: people who looked different than me making a mistake in

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Speaker 1: that moment was something I clearly every day recognized and

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Speaker 1: wanted to make sure that I did my best to

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Speaker 1: make sure that while I was the first, I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: be the last.

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Speaker 2: Chapter two. Weight of being first. When you are there first,

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Speaker 2: there's a certain amount of weight that is placed on

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Speaker 2: you because you don't have the luxury of being a person.

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Speaker 2: You've become a representative of all of your kind and

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Speaker 2: all those that will ever be considered to come after you.

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Speaker 2: That weight doesn't come off when the day is over.

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Speaker 2: That weight continues when you come home at night. How

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Speaker 2: did you, as a person manage to expel that weight

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Speaker 2: in such way that you could continue to go forward to?

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Speaker 2: The reason I asked you is that many of our

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Speaker 2: listeners that are listening at us right now have an

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Speaker 2: undue amount of weight because they're the only women, because

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Speaker 2: they're short, because they're tall, because they're black, because they're white,

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Speaker 2: or Chinese or Asian tell us the steps that you

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Speaker 2: use to manage the weight of not being just one

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Speaker 2: person but representing all of your people.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think your right to point out that in

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Speaker 1: many ways, so many different people are carrying that same weight.

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Speaker 1: You're the first one or the only one in your firm,

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Speaker 1: in your community, and the hardest part about it is

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Speaker 1: that most of the people who surround you don't see it,

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Speaker 1: they don't understand it. And for a long time, I

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Speaker 1: think I didn't carry it well. So I think during

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Speaker 1: the Obama administration, in particular, I didn't carry it well

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Speaker 1: because I was in a room where I was the

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Speaker 1: only person who looked like me, who had the same

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Speaker 1: lived experience. So we would often be talking about a

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Speaker 1: financial crisis and the I was in crisis, and for

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Speaker 1: many of the people in the room, it was an

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Speaker 1: academic conversation about numbers. I was probably the only person

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Speaker 1: who some neighbor had lost a house, who knew what

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Speaker 1: it was like in these communities. And I felt then

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Speaker 1: that I should have spoken up more. And I learned

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Speaker 1: from that as I wanted to buy an administration, and I

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Speaker 1: made clear to myself that I was going to speak

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Speaker 1: to not just the economic data, which is the easy

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Speaker 1: thing to speak to, but to the lived experiences that

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Speaker 1: I had personally had and the people that I knew

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Speaker 1: had in those rooms where it mattered. And that's a

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Speaker 1: hard thing to do because that makes yourself vulnerable because

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Speaker 1: you're talking about people you love and people you care about.

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Speaker 1: The things I did to try and find relief were

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Speaker 1: really around three things, faith, fitness, and family. Those are

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Speaker 1: my three things that got me through. And I think

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Speaker 1: it took me too long, but I found a great

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Speaker 1: faith community in d C where many of these old

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Speaker 1: black women are big fans of yours. So part of

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Speaker 1: the reason that I will do anything you want is

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Speaker 1: because it gets me a great deal of credit when

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Speaker 1: I go to church. But they put hands on me,

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Speaker 1: they prayed for me. There was a place where I

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Speaker 1: always felt safe and comfortable. And then the other thing

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Speaker 1: I did was I just focused on my fitness because

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Speaker 1: one of the things that I've also seen is that

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Speaker 1: for so many people like us, we don't focus on

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Speaker 1: our fitness and it leads to not only bad health outcomes,

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Speaker 1: but leads support decision making and the spiral is just real.

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Speaker 1: So I focused on my fitness in a real way,

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Speaker 1: and then finally, I'm just blessed to have a family

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Speaker 1: that is there to support me in lots of ways,

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Speaker 1: and I tried to make sure that I pressed into

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Speaker 1: that because I think earlier on in my career one

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Speaker 1: of the things that I did, we were talking about

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Speaker 1: this earlier, was I made work an idol. Instead of

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Speaker 1: knowing that I was called to do this, this was

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Speaker 1: my vocation, I turned it into an idol, and I

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Speaker 1: ignored the people who loved me or taking care of myself.

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Speaker 1: And despite the fact that during a pandemic, I had

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Speaker 1: to remember that ultimately I was a tool being used,

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Speaker 1: I wasn't ultimately the person responsible. And President Biden was

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Speaker 1: very helpful in this regard because he is a man

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Speaker 1: of deep and abiding faith, and it's one of the

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Speaker 1: things I loved most about him. In our first conversation

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Speaker 1: about me taking this job was of course over zoom

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Speaker 1: because we're sitting here in the middle of a pandemic.

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Speaker 1: And before he even gets to the job, he of

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Speaker 1: course because he's a deeply caring person who's asking my

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Speaker 1: family about my family and how they're doing. And halfway

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Speaker 1: through he tells me I have to leave early because

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Speaker 1: I need to get to service. But after service, you

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Speaker 1: can call me. I'm happy to talk some more, but

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Speaker 1: I need to go to service. And just the fact

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Speaker 1: that he always was focused on his relationship with God

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Speaker 1: created a permission structure for the rest of us who

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Speaker 1: wanted to do that as well. So even in the

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Speaker 1: darkest moments, he allowed us to be in a place

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Speaker 1: where we were focused on the most important thing, which

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Speaker 1: was our faith.

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Speaker 2: You know, I want to back up a little bit

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Speaker 2: to the part about family. You had the unique experience

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Speaker 2: of also working with Michelle Obama, who is wildly popular

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Speaker 2: around most of the world today. What was it like

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Speaker 2: inside those walls working for Michelle or working with Michelle Obama?

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Speaker 1: It was wonderful to get to work with both of them,

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Speaker 1: especially at a moment where they were investing in thinking

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Speaker 1: about focused on how they build a legacy, And like

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Speaker 1: many giving people like yourself, they are thinking about that legacy,

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Speaker 1: not in terms of their own personal wealth or or

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Speaker 1: the Obamas, but how do they invest in the communities

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Speaker 1: in the places they came from. And for the President

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Speaker 1: and the Foundation, the thing that he has focused on

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Speaker 1: doing is investing in the next generation of leaders around

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Speaker 1: the world, and the thing he's focused on is not

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Speaker 1: one policy idea, but on a character, the idea that

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Speaker 1: we need leaders of character, people who care deeply about

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Speaker 1: their communities, who are based in those communities, who cared

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Speaker 1: deeply about making the world a better place. And the

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Speaker 1: First Lady is focused on making sure that there are

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Speaker 1: women who are part of that cohort. Investing in women

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Speaker 1: from the beginning of their lives through all of their

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Speaker 1: lives is something she's been completely focused on. And one

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Speaker 1: of the things that the most inspiring to me was

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Speaker 1: watching their marriage and the way that Barack Obama wouldn't

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Speaker 1: have been Barack Obama without Michelle Obama, and Michelle Obama

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Speaker 1: wouldn't have been Michelle Obama without Barack Obama. Was an

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Speaker 1: inspirational thing because I often think one of the things

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Speaker 1: we don't focus enough on is how to have successful marriages.

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Speaker 1: And I remember when I was a late bloomer, so

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Speaker 1: I only got married a few years ago, and before

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Speaker 1: I got married, I went to go ask for advice

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Speaker 1: from the president in terms of what makes successful marriage.

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Speaker 1: And I think that, you know, President Obama is a

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Speaker 1: wise man about many things, and this is one of

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Speaker 1: those places where the idea of thinking the way he

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Speaker 1: the way he thinks about talks about that partnership to

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Speaker 1: me was so inspirational in terms of how you build

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Speaker 1: something over time that isn't just about love in the moment,

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Speaker 1: but about how you learn to love each other in

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Speaker 1: different seasons of life. And it's been great to both.

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Speaker 1: It was great to both work for them but also

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Speaker 1: just experience the way that they moved through the world together.

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Speaker 2: Are there particular moments that you've got to see Michelle

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Speaker 2: or President Obama in a light or a moment that

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Speaker 2: stand out in your mind that that helps to shape

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Speaker 2: or define things that everybody wouldn't see or get to know.

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Speaker 1: So I think the you know, for most politicians, they

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Speaker 1: have armies of people who do things for them, including

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Speaker 1: writing for them, and for Barack Obama, he had a

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Speaker 1: number of people who helped him with these things as well.

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Speaker 1: But there are two moments that I remember where I

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Speaker 1: watched him go through the writing process that just demonstrated

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Speaker 1: to me how special he truly is, just as not

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Speaker 1: just a president, but as a human. And one was

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Speaker 1: when and I think the anniversary just happened, we were

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Speaker 1: in Japan for a meeting of global leaders but he

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Speaker 1: was going to go to Hiroshima, the place where the

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Speaker 1: United States dropped the first and only nuclear bombs. And

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Speaker 1: I came to his room early in the morning to

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Speaker 1: come pick him up because we were supposed to go

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Speaker 1: to a set of meetings. And I walk in and

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Speaker 1: he hands me and I was told by the speech

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Speaker 1: writing team, we need to get a copy of the speech.

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Speaker 1: We sent him the final draft. He may have some

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Speaker 1: light edits, would you just grab them for us? On

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Speaker 1: the way I walk in, and you know, we were

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Speaker 1: talking for a few minutes, and you know, you don't

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Speaker 1: want to ask the President of the United States about

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Speaker 1: his homework. So I'm trying to dance around the topic

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Speaker 1: of how am I going to get this speech out

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Speaker 1: of him? I don't want the messenger to get shot here.

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Speaker 1: And I asked him about the speech and he hands

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Speaker 1: me seven pages of lined paper and I was like, oh, no,

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Speaker 1: I wanted the speech, the speech Wris gave you, And

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Speaker 1: he said, yeah, I stay up all night and rewrote

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Speaker 1: it because he knew about the meaning of the moment

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Speaker 1: and he wanted to make sure that what he said

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Speaker 1: met the moment. And the same thing happened after the

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Speaker 1: murder of George Floyd, where the President was thinking about

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Speaker 1: what to say in a moment when the country was grieving,

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Speaker 1: and he was helping think about not just grief, but

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Speaker 1: how do we make sure that this becomes a movement,

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Speaker 1: not a moment in the country. And I just remember,

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Speaker 1: of course at that point we were on the phone

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Speaker 1: because of the pandemic, but him going over every word

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Speaker 1: and thinking about how to pick the right words that

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Speaker 1: would both help a country that was mourning but one

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Speaker 1: that he wanted to make sure was moving as well.

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Speaker 1: And it just spoke to how special he was as

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Speaker 1: a leader and a thoughtful person about how to use

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Speaker 1: words to move people in the right direction.

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Speaker 2: Sounds very inspiring and underscorees how important it is the

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Speaker 2: power of what we say. Were you blacklisted Bad Putin?

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Speaker 1: I was? Moscow is one of those places I will

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Speaker 1: never visit. I have plenty of other destinations on my

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Speaker 1: bucket list.

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Speaker 2: I probably should rephrase the question and say, why were

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Speaker 2: you black listed bad Putins?

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Speaker 1: Well, one of the things I was responsible for at

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Speaker 1: the Treasury Department was our national security portfolio, and that

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Speaker 1: included putting sanctions on Russia after they invaded Ukraine. I

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Speaker 1: had the honor that I shared with a number of

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Speaker 1: other people of being blacklisted by Rush by Moscow in

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Speaker 1: the Kremlin for doing that, which means that I will

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Speaker 1: never visit Russia. But I think we often because it's

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Speaker 1: so far away, forget to realize that what people in

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Speaker 1: Ukraine are doing is similar to what we fought for

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Speaker 1: here in this country when we gained dependence, what people

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Speaker 1: fought for in order to get the right to vote,

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Speaker 1: but which is maintaining their democracy in the face of

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Speaker 1: a oppressor. So I was proud to do that work,

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Speaker 1: and I was proud to be blacklisted for doing that work,

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Speaker 1: and I would do it again.

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Speaker 2: I understand that you had to interview with Kamala Harris

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Speaker 2: to get that position. Was she a tough interview?

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Speaker 1: The Vice President's a tough interview because she is very smart,

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Speaker 1: and you have to remember she's a prosecutor. She asked

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Speaker 1: really good questions. The thing I was fortunate about was

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Speaker 1: that I knew the Vice president before she was vice president,

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Speaker 1: because like me, she's from California and I'd been a

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Speaker 1: huge fan of the Vice president for years before that.

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Speaker 1: But the thing she pressed me on during the interview,

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Speaker 1: which further The reason why I care so deeply for

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Speaker 1: her was what are we going to do to help

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Speaker 1: get capital into communities that have been left out and

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Speaker 1: left behind for so long? So there's this financially to

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Speaker 1: call the CDFI community Development Financial institutions. Many of these

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Speaker 1: are owned by people of color, black and brown people

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Speaker 1: in this country. And we spent the entire interview with

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Speaker 1: her pressing me on what can we do to help

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Speaker 1: build up this ecosystem, build up an economy that will

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Speaker 1: help people not only in urban communities but in rural

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Speaker 1: communities who have been left out and left behind for

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Speaker 1: so long. And I want to work directly with you.

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Speaker 1: And the thing you know often is when people say

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Speaker 1: they want to do something, half the time, it's like

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Speaker 1: when they say, oh, it'd be good to see you,

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Speaker 1: that means they probably are not going to see you

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Speaker 1: for another year. That was not the Vice president. She

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Speaker 1: followed up with me right away and it became one

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Speaker 1: of those things where she was laser focused on the

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Speaker 1: idea that we need to not only make sure that

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Speaker 1: the economy works, but how do we build wealth, how

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Speaker 1: do we build opportunity in parts of the economy that

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Speaker 1: had been left out? Well before the pandemic and I

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Speaker 1: both appreciated that early conversation, but I appreciated how laser

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Speaker 1: focused she was on making sure that those communities had

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Speaker 1: access to the resources they needed to grow.

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Speaker 2: Chapter three Small Businesses. When you talk about CDFI's community

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Speaker 2: development financial institution, can you delineate for our audience a

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Speaker 2: difference between a CDFI a traditional bank, and an MBI.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and many an MDI is a minority own depository institution.

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Speaker 1: There's about twenty black owned banks in this country. That's

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Speaker 1: far fewer than there used to be, but the and

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Speaker 1: they're traditionally smaller than many of the large banks in

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Speaker 1: this country. So CDFIs sometimes are minority owned depository institutions.

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Speaker 1: But CDFIs are focused on, in the name, serving a

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Speaker 1: particular community and helping to get capital to them. There

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Speaker 1: are four thousand banks in the United States of America,

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Speaker 1: but most of the money is in very few of

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Speaker 1: those banks. And I could give you the letters. Many

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Speaker 1: of you bank with these bigger banks. But the challenge

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Speaker 1: with these bigger banks is they don't lend in all

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Speaker 1: the communities in this country. They're not giving a housing

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Speaker 1: loan in certain communities they're not helping businesses grow in

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Speaker 1: certain communities. So what the CDFIs were created to do,

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Speaker 1: which were what we hope they do, is they help

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Speaker 1: fill this gap. The problem, of course, is that they're

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Speaker 1: they're under scale, and this is one of those places

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Speaker 1: where you've had bipartisans support for a while here. But

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Speaker 1: in the Trump administration, they approved nine billion dollars of

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Speaker 1: capital to put into CDFIs and MDIs. My job was

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Speaker 1: to distribute that money to these institutions, and we did that.

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Speaker 1: But the problem they all had was they had all

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Speaker 1: this capital, which is equity, but they didn't have any

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Speaker 1: money to lend because no one they didn't have any deposits.

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Speaker 1: So we worked and we worked really hard to make

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Speaker 1: sure that these banks had the ability to lend by

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Speaker 1: working with a bunch of companies in the economy to

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Speaker 1: help drive lending. But the challenge we have today is

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Speaker 1: that in so many of the communities that we come from,

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Speaker 1: talent I believe in this country is equally distributed. The

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Speaker 1: problem we face is that opportunity is not and the

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Speaker 1: key to opportunity in many of these communities is capital.

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Speaker 1: You need money to be able to take that good

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Speaker 1: idea to turn it into a business. You need money

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Speaker 1: to be able to afford that first home that allows

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Speaker 1: you to build equity, to be able to afford to

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Speaker 1: send your kids to school. But both because of the

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Speaker 1: historical prejudices existed in our society, but also because of

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Speaker 1: the ways that we have defined communities, it is hard

440
00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:59,560
Speaker 1: for that capital to reach black and brown communities throughout

441
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:02,679
Speaker 1: this country. Bishop, You've done a lot to try and

442
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:05,679
Speaker 1: change that yourself, but I think we've also done that

443
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:08,080
Speaker 1: through this ecosystem of CDFIs. And the key now is

444
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:11,280
Speaker 1: how do we grow that ecosystem? How do we grow opportunity,

445
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:14,040
Speaker 1: How do we become how do we get scale in

446
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:18,280
Speaker 1: a way that allows us to have transformative opportunities in

447
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:18,880
Speaker 1: our community?

448
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:22,960
Speaker 2: As the king very very important. Our families depend on that.

449
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:26,600
Speaker 2: Home ownership depends on it, The growth of our small

450
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:30,439
Speaker 2: business depends on it. More Americans are hired by small

451
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 2: businesses and major corporations, though the major corporations seem to

452
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:37,120
Speaker 2: have all the weight when it comes to getting things done.

453
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:46,440
Speaker 2: Chapter four. System is broken. Recently you mentioned being from

454
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:51,159
Speaker 2: California and Kamala Harris being from California. Recently she was

455
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 2: interviewed and asked was she going to run for governor

456
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:57,360
Speaker 2: and her response was no, she wasn't going to run

457
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:01,600
Speaker 2: for governor because the system is broken. Do you agree

458
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:04,000
Speaker 2: that the system is broken and what would it take

459
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:04,640
Speaker 2: to fix it.

460
00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:08,080
Speaker 1: I think it's impossible to look at the system and

461
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:11,639
Speaker 1: think that it's not broken, and I think a big

462
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,960
Speaker 1: part of what has broken it is money. Frankly, and

463
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 1: you mentioned big companies for some reason having more say

464
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 1: than small businesses which employ millions of Americans. The big

465
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:26,919
Speaker 1: reason that many of these businesses have more say is

466
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:32,120
Speaker 1: because they are using money to gain influence. And one

467
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 1: of the things that is status about our system is

468
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:37,280
Speaker 1: that we don't have campaign finance reform, which means that

469
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:39,520
Speaker 1: money would be moved out of politics, and we don't

470
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:42,439
Speaker 1: allow us to be in a place where good people

471
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:44,639
Speaker 1: have the ability to run for office without having to

472
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:48,200
Speaker 1: raise millions of dollars to do so. You think about California,

473
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:51,520
Speaker 1: in order to run for governor in California, it's going

474
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:54,879
Speaker 1: to cost you about thirty million dollars at least expensive

475
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 1: media markets. You've got to raise the money to do that.

476
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 1: That means that you are leading out a number of

477
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:04,399
Speaker 1: people who may be great governors who don't have the

478
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:07,639
Speaker 1: ability to raise the money. I think fixing that piece

479
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:10,239
Speaker 1: of the system in and of itself is probably the

480
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:13,600
Speaker 1: most important reform to trying to change the nature of

481
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:16,680
Speaker 1: politics and giving us a fair shot. There's a lot

482
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:18,679
Speaker 1: of other things that I could mention, but I do

483
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:21,920
Speaker 1: think the corrosive nature of the way that we're allowing

484
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:24,960
Speaker 1: money to influence our politics makes it very hard to

485
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:27,359
Speaker 1: get the type of policy that we need as Americans.

486
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:29,800
Speaker 2: Would you say that or is it something else that

487
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:34,440
Speaker 2: is the biggest, biggest hurdle you've had to pay for politics?

488
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:38,920
Speaker 1: So I'd say that money is probably the universal thing

489
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 1: that gets in the way. I do think that fundamentally,

490
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:44,880
Speaker 1: one of the things that we are still grappling with

491
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:47,960
Speaker 1: in a country is a system that was set up

492
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 1: to do less. Because when we created our system of government,

493
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:58,880
Speaker 1: people created it in a way to be a conservative one.

494
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 1: That meant the people who had value were able to

495
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:04,399
Speaker 1: keep that value and making it harder for new people

496
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 1: to be brought into the system. So you have things

497
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:10,200
Speaker 1: like the electoral college, which made no sense then makes

498
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 1: even less sense now, but was created in order to

499
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:15,879
Speaker 1: make sure that certain states continued to have the same

500
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 1: kind of power in the system. So I think that

501
00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:23,640
Speaker 1: there are systemic issues, but fundamentally, the way that money

502
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:27,840
Speaker 1: further enables those systemic issues to play out, I think

503
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:30,120
Speaker 1: is probably the most corrosive thing from my point of view.

504
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 2: In my own state, Texas.

505
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 1: The problems right now, Yeah.

506
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:38,640
Speaker 2: We have a fight going right now about red lining.

507
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 2: What are your thoughts about it?

508
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:45,480
Speaker 1: Redistrict? To me, this is one of those political fights

509
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 1: that speak to the nature of Ultimately, we have a

510
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 1: system that was built around one person, one vote, we

511
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 1: redistrict every ten years. The idea of doing this, I think,

512
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 1: further arose the trust that people have in the system

513
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 1: when they see that politicians instead of being focused on

514
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 1: the thing that matters most, and right now, the thing

515
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 1: that matters most is lowering cost because things cost too much,

516
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 1: from housing to food to electricity. Instead of doing that,

517
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 1: what they're focused on right now is trying to find

518
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 1: ways to preserve power. And that speaks to what makes

519
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,960
Speaker 1: people so frustrated about government and politics. And my hope

520
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 1: is that what's going to happen is that the governor

521
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 1: will realized that in Texas, what people want to see

522
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 1: happen is bring down the electrical bills in Texas, help

523
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 1: people get access to housing in Texas. If you do

524
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 1: the right thing, the American people will reward you by

525
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 1: voting for you, but being distracted by trying to redistrict

526
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 1: in order to create an unfair advantage for your side.

527
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 1: No one. I just don't think the American people like

528
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 1: the idea of changing the rules mid game on a

529
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 1: system that they're already worried about. So I think that

530
00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 1: you're right that one of the challenges I think in

531
00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:03,480
Speaker 1: it system is that people who have power want to

532
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:05,800
Speaker 1: hold on to it, and when they want to do

533
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:08,960
Speaker 1: that at the cost of focusing on the things that

534
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 1: there are people who voted for them care about. I

535
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 1: think that is a recipe for losing power that democracies,

536
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 1: when allowed to function, have done. So I think the

537
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:23,000
Speaker 1: key is making sure that it's allowed to function.

538
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 2: Do you think that the erosion of trust in the

539
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 2: system by the American people has something to do with

540
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 2: the slowing of the economy and the impact that it's

541
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 2: having on the GDP.

542
00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 1: No question. And I don't think it's just here in America.

543
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 1: You know, I was just in Europe and you go

544
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 1: throughout Western Europe, and working class people around the world

545
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 1: feel as if the economy doesn't work for them. They're

546
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 1: not saying they don't feel, you know, And I think

547
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:56,280
Speaker 1: my view is that this started during that financial crisis

548
00:30:56,280 --> 00:31:00,960
Speaker 1: that I mentioned where for many Americans we told them,

549
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 1: go buy a house. That'll be your greatest investment. Over time,

550
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 1: that investment will grow, It'll make you wealthy. You'll be

551
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:09,320
Speaker 1: able to put your kids to school, you can hold

552
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 1: your job, and your income's going to grow over time,

553
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 1: everything will be fine. All of a sudden you have

554
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:16,560
Speaker 1: a crisis. That means if you own a home, the

555
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 1: value might be less, especially if you don't live on

556
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 1: the coast. That job you had that was a union

557
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:24,239
Speaker 1: job that paid well probably disappeared. In the job you've

558
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 1: got now. While it pays you a decent income, you

559
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 1: have no clue what your career trajectory is. You could

560
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 1: be fired tomorrow. So and cost keep going up, the

561
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 1: cost and you know, we focused on inflation when frankly,

562
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 1: we should have spent a lot more time focused on

563
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 1: the cost of living. They're often related, but they could

564
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 1: also be different. And the truth was, since the second

565
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:50,480
Speaker 1: term of the Oboma administration, the cost of housing, the

566
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 1: cost of healthcare, the cost of education, be it childcare

567
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 1: if your kid is young, or higher education, growing far

568
00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 1: faster than anyone's wages, especially for the working class. So

569
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 1: of course, these people who don't feel like the governments

570
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:07,360
Speaker 1: that they've elected are paying enough attention to these issues

571
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,680
Speaker 1: are likely to vote for whoever they think may solve it.

572
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:13,640
Speaker 1: And if you look at every election since twenty sixteen,

573
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 1: the American people have voted to remove the party in

574
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:21,000
Speaker 1: power in some way. In twenty eighteen, they elect a

575
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 1: new Congress. In twenty twenty, they elect a new president,

576
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:25,480
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty two, a new Congress, in twenty twenty four,

577
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:28,160
Speaker 1: a new president. All I think driven by the point

578
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:29,080
Speaker 1: you made.

579
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:33,240
Speaker 2: You were in the room during the Great Recession of

580
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 2: two thousand and nine. Take me in the room. Is

581
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 2: it a fight? Is it silence? Is it indifference? Is

582
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 2: it apathy? Is it everybody holding on to their chair?

583
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 2: What does it feel like to be in the room

584
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:52,560
Speaker 2: when the country's literally almost literally on fire?

585
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:57,680
Speaker 1: So I think there's the firefighting stage where the challenge

586
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 1: is the challenge with a fire isn't actually the fire,

587
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:07,800
Speaker 1: it's the smoke. Because the smoke fills the room and

588
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 1: it makes it really hard to figure out where the

589
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 1: fire is. And that was true during the crisis, because

590
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 1: ultimately everyone saw the crisis developing, but the question was

591
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 1: what's the solution. And it's really easy in hindsight to

592
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:23,480
Speaker 1: be like, oh, this is what you should have done,

593
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 1: this is what you should have done. But when you're

594
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 1: in that fire and the smoke has filled the room,

595
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:30,000
Speaker 1: you are in a place where you're trying to make

596
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:32,720
Speaker 1: the best decisions possible. The challenge I think for us

597
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:36,320
Speaker 1: wasn't so much putting out the fire, it was how

598
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:40,000
Speaker 1: do you rebuild? Because I think we didn't. We got

599
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:42,880
Speaker 1: putting out the fire as good as I think you

600
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:46,160
Speaker 1: could have given the circumstances. But the challenge we had

601
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 1: was we didn't focus enough on how to rebuild the

602
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 1: communities and the wealth that was destroyed when those fires happened.

603
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:56,120
Speaker 1: The best example for me was our housing programs, where

604
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 1: we had a program called hamp which was intended to

605
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 1: keep people in their house houses. Ultimately, we had this

606
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 1: program and it was almost impossible for the people who

607
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 1: needed it most to access the program because we were

608
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:11,360
Speaker 1: so worried about three magic words waste, fraud, and abuse,

609
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 1: so that you told people that you had to be

610
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 1: able to prove your income. For many people, they didn't

611
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 1: have a W two income. They they were living, they

612
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,960
Speaker 1: were making money here, they're making money there. Make small

613
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 1: things like that made it very hard for many of

614
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:28,800
Speaker 1: the communities we came from to be able to access

615
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:31,759
Speaker 1: so many of the programs that existed. And I think

616
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 1: that put us in a place where if you lose

617
00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:36,440
Speaker 1: a house, it's not only about those four walls, it's

618
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:38,920
Speaker 1: about your kid can't go to school, it's hard to

619
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:41,120
Speaker 1: stay in your job. All of a sudden, you have

620
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:45,240
Speaker 1: this churn, and it created what economists call economic scarring,

621
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:48,319
Speaker 1: what we all know is just hardship for so many

622
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:51,880
Speaker 1: communities and people. We had barely made it back in

623
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:55,440
Speaker 1: terms of the economy when the pandemic hit in so

624
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:58,759
Speaker 1: many of our communities, and that again just as you know,

625
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 1: hit our communit these far more than other communities, so

626
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:05,160
Speaker 1: that anything that they had built back up since the

627
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 1: financial crisis was again being destroyed.

628
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:16,680
Speaker 2: Chapter five Future of America. Okay, I'm going to be

629
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:21,480
Speaker 2: selfish and get you to comfort my heart and stop

630
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:26,719
Speaker 2: me from staying up at night. Are the terrorifts that

631
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 2: we are seeing right now, the catalysts of the inflation

632
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 2: that continues to rise, or are they just being blamed

633
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:39,960
Speaker 2: for the problem.

634
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:42,600
Speaker 1: So I think it's too early to tell if they're

635
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 1: going to be the key drivers going forward, but they're

636
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:49,240
Speaker 1: not helping them come down. So if you thought six

637
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:53,840
Speaker 1: months ago things cost too much, many of those things

638
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:56,640
Speaker 1: are just as expensive, if not more expensive today because

639
00:35:56,800 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 1: of that and because of the terriffs. Frankly, as you're

640
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 1: going back to school and you're going to the store

641
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:06,760
Speaker 1: to buy clothes for your children, you'll see the clothes

642
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 1: are probably slightly more expensive, if not a lot more expensive,

643
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:13,279
Speaker 1: because many of those clothes you're buying either come from

644
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:15,400
Speaker 1: a foreign country or parts of them are made in

645
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:16,880
Speaker 1: a foreign country. If you're going to go buy a

646
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:18,920
Speaker 1: new car and decide that what you want is an

647
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:21,239
Speaker 1: F one fifty at F one fifty is going to

648
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 1: be more expensive because the aluminum that makes that F

649
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:28,120
Speaker 1: one to fifty truck much of that comes from Canada

650
00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:32,920
Speaker 1: or from another country. So I think that the unfortunate

651
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:37,359
Speaker 1: truth is that prices are not coming down, They're likely

652
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:40,520
Speaker 1: to go up more over time, which is exactly the

653
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:43,400
Speaker 1: opposite of what the economy needed because of the tariffs

654
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:44,240
Speaker 1: have been put in place.

655
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:46,520
Speaker 2: Would it be fair to say that we're in a

656
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 2: tear for.

657
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:53,960
Speaker 1: I would say that usually that requires two sides. Yeah,

658
00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:57,680
Speaker 1: It's like saying, are we in a fight when only

659
00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 1: one of you is punching? I don't. I don't think

660
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:03,120
Speaker 1: it's I think what's happening is the United States is

661
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:07,120
Speaker 1: unilaterally trying to reset the terms of trade with our

662
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:10,440
Speaker 1: friends and foes. And the hard part watching it is

663
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:12,759
Speaker 1: that we're being far tougher on our friends and our

664
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:17,480
Speaker 1: foes the idea that we have we're taking harder steps

665
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:21,000
Speaker 1: against Canada now than we are against countries like China.

666
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:23,480
Speaker 1: I think is hard for people to understand. I think

667
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:26,479
Speaker 1: we all wish the president's success in terms of trying

668
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:28,759
Speaker 1: to build more things in the United States. I think

669
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 1: the challenging part is that it feels like in lots

670
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 1: of ways a strategy is leading to making things harder

671
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:38,000
Speaker 1: on the same people who need the relief at the moment.

672
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 2: The reason I called it a war is because Canada

673
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:46,240
Speaker 2: is fighting back, China is fighting back. We're getting blows

674
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:49,719
Speaker 2: that we weren't getting at first. There are countries that

675
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:52,759
Speaker 2: are forbidding us to be able to get viesus to

676
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:56,960
Speaker 2: go into their countries because we did them. So it

677
00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:00,239
Speaker 2: doesn't seem totally one sided. We may have initiated, yeah,

678
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:02,879
Speaker 2: that's fair. Yeah, but it seems like the blows are

679
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:05,680
Speaker 2: coming both ways and the people are stuck in the

680
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:06,399
Speaker 2: middle of the fight.

681
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:09,400
Speaker 1: Totally agree. There's a I think that's a Swahili saying

682
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:13,439
Speaker 1: that says the grass suffers when the elephants fight, right,

683
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:15,560
Speaker 1: And I think the people are the ones who are

684
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 1: suffering the most in terms of higher cost. And I

685
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:21,120
Speaker 1: think to your point, my view is that we've done

686
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:23,279
Speaker 1: a lot more in terms of the actions we've taken

687
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:27,440
Speaker 1: against other countries. But I don't think other countries are

688
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:30,280
Speaker 1: done reacting to what we've done. They may do it quietly,

689
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:32,440
Speaker 1: it may be over time, we may not see it

690
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:35,799
Speaker 1: right away. But my big concern we have a we

691
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:37,880
Speaker 1: have a young man in the audience who knows this

692
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 1: better than me, is that ultimately one of the strengths

693
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:44,680
Speaker 1: of the United States has been that countries like us,

694
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:46,640
Speaker 1: they want to be our allies, they want to be

695
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 1: our partners, they want to they want to work with us.

696
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:53,239
Speaker 1: That has helped us through generations both avoid wars but

697
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:55,880
Speaker 1: also create economic opportunities for our country. People want to

698
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:57,759
Speaker 1: wear Nike shoes around the world, not just here in

699
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:00,319
Speaker 1: the United States. My fear is that over time, if

700
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:02,840
Speaker 1: we're going to be the belligerents against these other countries,

701
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:05,719
Speaker 1: they're going to have less favorable views about America. They're

702
00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:08,279
Speaker 1: going to buy fewer American things, which is not to

703
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 1: our benefit.

704
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:14,080
Speaker 2: We have historically had the strongest economy in the world.

705
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:17,400
Speaker 2: Do you think we're going to maintain that position or

706
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:20,799
Speaker 2: have we already lost that position? When I look at

707
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 2: my grandchildren, are they going to enjoy the benefits? Or

708
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:29,160
Speaker 2: is this the beginning of the slow erosion like every

709
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:32,319
Speaker 2: other empire that we have seen down through history. Are

710
00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 2: we on the trajectory that leads this country down a

711
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:37,520
Speaker 2: heel we can't get back up?

712
00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:40,239
Speaker 1: So I think right now the United States continues to

713
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:42,440
Speaker 1: have the strongest economy in the world. That's why everybody

714
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:44,719
Speaker 1: wants to make deals with us, because they ultimately want

715
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:47,960
Speaker 1: to be able to sell things to American consumers. I

716
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:49,799
Speaker 1: do think we have choices to make, and if we

717
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:52,440
Speaker 1: make the wrong choice, you know, as you said, like

718
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:55,600
Speaker 1: this is not our success and not promise to us.

719
00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 1: It's because of choices we've made over generations to invest

720
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:02,000
Speaker 1: in the country, to unlock opportunity for Americans. And if

721
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:04,279
Speaker 1: we make the wrong choices, I do worry about the

722
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:06,880
Speaker 1: fact that America's vision in the world is going to erode.

723
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:09,960
Speaker 1: But I think we still have the opportunity to make

724
00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:14,000
Speaker 1: those choices. We've faced challenges throughout our history. The question

725
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 1: is what do we choose to do in that moment.

726
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:18,440
Speaker 1: And right now, my fears that we're making a set

727
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 1: of choices that are going to set us back, that

728
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:23,359
Speaker 1: aren't going to benefit your grandchild.

729
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:26,919
Speaker 2: What other choices that, if they were yours to make

730
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:31,400
Speaker 2: that would make us more sustainable and our future more

731
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:31,799
Speaker 2: and bright.

732
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:34,960
Speaker 1: I do think that the place where the President is

733
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:36,799
Speaker 1: right is that we do need to make more things

734
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:40,359
Speaker 1: in the United States. The thing that I also believe, though,

735
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 1: is that the best way to beat someone in a

736
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:45,120
Speaker 1: race is not to tie their shoes together, but instead

737
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:47,320
Speaker 1: to run faster. And we've got to invest more in

738
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:49,560
Speaker 1: the United States, especially in these communities that have been

739
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:52,239
Speaker 1: left out and left behind, So helping to build up

740
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:56,600
Speaker 1: that manufacturing base, investing in the small business ecosystem. You

741
00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:59,720
Speaker 1: are so right that small businesses are the secret sauce

742
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:03,439
Speaker 1: to them America. The companies that today are in the

743
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:07,320
Speaker 1: top of the S and P five hundred, they weren't

744
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:11,239
Speaker 1: there forty years ago. They were all small businesses. Innovation

745
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:14,000
Speaker 1: is the key to our economy. So from my standpoint,

746
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:16,359
Speaker 1: the key for us is how do we invest in

747
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:19,120
Speaker 1: small businesses, how do we invest in people, how do

748
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:22,240
Speaker 1: we unlock that opportunity, and how do we create markets

749
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:27,560
Speaker 1: for Americans. I watched a conversation you had recently where

750
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:31,839
Speaker 1: you were talking about investment on the continent, and the

751
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:35,200
Speaker 1: thing that we often fail to recognize is that the

752
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:38,359
Speaker 1: place where the most people in the world are going

753
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 1: to live thirty forty fifty years from now is going

754
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:43,400
Speaker 1: to be in Africa. The United States should want to

755
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:46,279
Speaker 1: engage in those growing markets in a meaningful way. So

756
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:51,680
Speaker 1: to me, the truth is if set the different set

757
00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:54,240
Speaker 1: of choices I think that we would think about making

758
00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:58,360
Speaker 1: would be how do we invest in America in our people,

759
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:01,560
Speaker 1: but how do we also unlock opportunities for Americans to

760
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:04,360
Speaker 1: be able to sell things, to do things with allies

761
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:05,400
Speaker 1: and partners around the world.

762
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:12,719
Speaker 2: Beyond semantics, once affirmative action. Now we've called it a

763
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:16,759
Speaker 2: lot of different things, but is it really possible for

764
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:22,640
Speaker 2: us to eradicate out of the corporate suites and the

765
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 2: business offices and not be able to eradicate it out

766
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:29,520
Speaker 2: of the streets and the highways of America because of

767
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 2: our country is becoming increasingly diverse, and there is no

768
00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 2: one group of people that's going to be able to

769
00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:39,800
Speaker 2: run this country without the assistance of other groups of people.

770
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:44,560
Speaker 1: I completely agree, and I think the reality was that

771
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:48,280
Speaker 1: a number of companies, after the murder of George Floyd,

772
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:51,760
Speaker 1: decided to slap DEI on things, but not to actually

773
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:56,319
Speaker 1: do anything. So many of those companies were the first

774
00:42:56,320 --> 00:43:00,040
Speaker 1: ones to also take off DEI. But even before you

775
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 1: had the term, there were companies who were doing the

776
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:06,920
Speaker 1: right thing, not only because it's the morally right thing

777
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 1: to do, but because it is in their business interest. Ultimately,

778
00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:13,960
Speaker 1: they know that their customers are people of color. They

779
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:17,360
Speaker 1: know that in order to reach to have the best ideas,

780
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:20,640
Speaker 1: to have the brightest people, they need to recruit diverse people.

781
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:25,239
Speaker 1: So my view is that ultimately, in our society, our

782
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 1: highest ideals in our constitutions speak to the idea of

783
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 1: us being a diverse country where everyone is given a

784
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:34,600
Speaker 1: chance to succeed. But if you're a business in America,

785
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:37,160
Speaker 1: you're a big business, a small business, the thing that

786
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:39,680
Speaker 1: you want is to get the most talented people who

787
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:42,520
Speaker 1: can help advance your business success.

788
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:46,280
Speaker 2: I'm starting to see some synergy in your conversation between

789
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:53,319
Speaker 2: elected officials and corporate America in terms of being more

790
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:58,120
Speaker 2: concerned about profit margins and or holding your position than

791
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:00,680
Speaker 2: you are doing what's best for them. And I'm not

792
00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:03,600
Speaker 2: naive enough to think that business people aren't there to

793
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:07,440
Speaker 2: make money. There absolutely are, But shouldn't there be a

794
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:15,040
Speaker 2: fault line between if you kill your client trying to

795
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:19,160
Speaker 2: save your bottom line, who's going to buy your product tomorrow?

796
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:22,319
Speaker 1: Totally true, And I think one of the things that

797
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:24,680
Speaker 1: we have done, we have done well in the past,

798
00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:27,839
Speaker 1: and we have to continue to do, is we've got

799
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:32,239
Speaker 1: to speak with our wallets. Ultimately, you think about the

800
00:44:32,239 --> 00:44:35,279
Speaker 1: civil rights movement and the role the boycotts had there.

801
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:38,120
Speaker 1: And I won't mention any companies because I know this

802
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:42,640
Speaker 1: is a podcast, but I think that ultimately the actions

803
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:45,960
Speaker 1: by the black community, by communities of color to boycott

804
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:49,520
Speaker 1: companies who are doing the wrong thing and saying if

805
00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:51,400
Speaker 1: you don't want to do the right thing by me,

806
00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:53,000
Speaker 1: I'm not going to spend my money on you.

807
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:53,560
Speaker 2: Matters.

808
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:55,880
Speaker 1: We have economic force, and I think that we have

809
00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:59,720
Speaker 1: allies and partners in the broader economy because in this country,

810
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:02,279
Speaker 1: I think the vast majority of people agree on the

811
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:06,400
Speaker 1: importance of us having the diversity is our strength. It

812
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:08,880
Speaker 1: gives us the ability to use that economic power to

813
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 1: have a real impact on the way that companies act,

814
00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:13,719
Speaker 1: because you know, I've had a chance to work in

815
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 1: the private sector, and the thing that I learned was

816
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:17,799
Speaker 1: the companies that did best were the ones who were

817
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:20,880
Speaker 1: thinking about how they sustainably operate, and that means also

818
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:23,600
Speaker 1: thinking about how do I invest in the people from

819
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:27,000
Speaker 1: the communities that are my customers to help build talent

820
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:30,359
Speaker 1: there that can help my company do better. And if

821
00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:34,080
Speaker 1: companies aren't doing that, they may have short term success,

822
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:37,440
Speaker 1: but I don't think that that's a long term recipe

823
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:38,000
Speaker 1: for success.

824
00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:45,719
Speaker 2: Chapter number six Corporate culture. You worked at Black Brock

825
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:48,719
Speaker 2: for a while. What did you learn about money and

826
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:51,640
Speaker 2: corporate cultures while you were there.

827
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:53,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I worked at Blackrock for a while and I

828
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:56,840
Speaker 1: had the benefit of being Larry Fink's chief of staff

829
00:45:56,880 --> 00:46:00,759
Speaker 1: for a while, which gave me the ability to see

830
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:03,600
Speaker 1: corporate culture from a perspective that few people have because

831
00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:09,640
Speaker 1: Blackrock is probably the largest shareholder in every company in

832
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:14,799
Speaker 1: many countries given the size of its portfolio, and one

833
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:16,960
Speaker 1: of the things that Larry was committed to doing was

834
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:20,240
Speaker 1: spending time with his clients but also with people throughout

835
00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:22,440
Speaker 1: the economy, and it gave me a chance to see

836
00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:25,239
Speaker 1: not only what made Blackrock a great company, and I

837
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:29,440
Speaker 1: think it got back to Larry was very focused on talent,

838
00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:32,640
Speaker 1: just making sure he had the best people there doing

839
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:36,600
Speaker 1: the best work and creating real synergies between the people

840
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:39,600
Speaker 1: who worked for his organization. So it left me with

841
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:42,600
Speaker 1: the importance of talent being a key part of culture.

842
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:45,400
Speaker 1: And the companies we would go visit, the CEOs we

843
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:47,759
Speaker 1: would see almost all of them were focused on the

844
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:52,040
Speaker 1: same things. The way that I create value for my

845
00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:58,240
Speaker 1: ultimate customer is by having great technology, because technology does matter,

846
00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:01,400
Speaker 1: but I need great talent that could use that technology

847
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:05,040
Speaker 1: to create value. So it was a good opportunity to

848
00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:07,960
Speaker 1: see that the thing that matters most, no matter if

849
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:10,920
Speaker 1: you're running a big company or a small company, is

850
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:13,319
Speaker 1: getting the right people to help work with you.

851
00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:16,000
Speaker 2: That's also one of the most hardest jobs is to

852
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:21,680
Speaker 2: get great talent. When you compare the Obama administration with

853
00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:25,960
Speaker 2: the bad administration, who was the most successful at bringing

854
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:28,319
Speaker 2: together great talent? Wow?

855
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:30,520
Speaker 1: Great question asking me that pick between presidents.

856
00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:34,800
Speaker 2: Now just the talent, just the talent, and I think.

857
00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:36,400
Speaker 1: It was different. I think that one of the things

858
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:41,080
Speaker 1: that President Obama did that was remarkable and it was

859
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:42,680
Speaker 1: the first time I think it was done at scale

860
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:45,399
Speaker 1: was bring a bunch of talented people who had worked

861
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:48,239
Speaker 1: in technology into government for the first time. And it

862
00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:51,400
Speaker 1: was early enough in the twenty first century that we

863
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:54,799
Speaker 1: didn't know well enough the role the technology was going

864
00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:57,600
Speaker 1: to play over the next several decades. But doing that

865
00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:03,080
Speaker 1: at that moment was incredibly helpful to starting government thinking

866
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:07,800
Speaker 1: about how to utilize technology better throughout the entire enterprise.

867
00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:12,959
Speaker 2: So let's do another one. First Trump administration, second Trump administration,

868
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:17,360
Speaker 2: Which aggregation of talent gives you the most comfort?

869
00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:19,480
Speaker 1: I think that's an easy one. In terms of the

870
00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:24,920
Speaker 1: first Trump administration included people who had experience, brought a

871
00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:27,560
Speaker 1: bunch of credibility to the field, and were interested in

872
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:30,640
Speaker 1: helping to make the government work in ways that helped

873
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:34,400
Speaker 1: the people. And while there are people in the second

874
00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:38,399
Speaker 1: administration who also are talented, I think the difference is

875
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:45,160
Speaker 1: that ultimately the benefit of government is how do you

876
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:49,279
Speaker 1: invest in not only talent at the top, but talent

877
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:52,720
Speaker 1: throughout the organization because you're I think it is true

878
00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:57,839
Speaker 1: that ultimately really wealth good talented leaders, they're key has

879
00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:00,680
Speaker 1: to be to attract other talented leaders. And what we're

880
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:03,680
Speaker 1: seeing now is that people in the federal government who

881
00:49:03,719 --> 00:49:07,280
Speaker 1: work there, who've worked there for decades, who are really talented,

882
00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:09,920
Speaker 1: they're leaving. They're trying to go to the private sector.

883
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:12,680
Speaker 1: They're retiring because they don't feel like the government is

884
00:49:12,719 --> 00:49:15,319
Speaker 1: investing in them or investing in the American people. That's

885
00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:17,839
Speaker 1: what concerns me the most at the moment is that

886
00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:21,239
Speaker 1: the people who have dedicated their lives to doing this

887
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:24,680
Speaker 1: important work are deciding to step away, which when you

888
00:49:24,760 --> 00:49:28,280
Speaker 1: lose really good human capital, it's hard to run any business,

889
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:29,560
Speaker 1: including the federal government.

890
00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:34,680
Speaker 2: My seventy two year old sister will kill me if

891
00:49:34,719 --> 00:49:38,360
Speaker 2: I don't ask you this question. Is her social security

892
00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:39,400
Speaker 2: and retirement safe?

893
00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:44,040
Speaker 1: It is one of the bed rock principles of government

894
00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:46,000
Speaker 1: that we want to make sure that everyone gets access

895
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:48,439
Speaker 1: to their Social Security medicare. The thing that I worry

896
00:49:48,480 --> 00:49:50,480
Speaker 1: about is if she has you know, if she has

897
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:53,880
Speaker 1: a problem, for she changes her address, or something happens

898
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:57,200
Speaker 1: where she needs to contact the Social Security administration. That's

899
00:49:57,200 --> 00:49:59,799
Speaker 1: harder to do today than at any point because some

900
00:49:59,840 --> 00:50:01,200
Speaker 1: of the the people who used to work there no

901
00:50:01,239 --> 00:50:03,799
Speaker 1: longer do because they were let go. They're closed down

902
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:07,080
Speaker 1: field offices. You can't necessarily rely on the technology, So

903
00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:10,400
Speaker 1: while the money might be there, getting access to it

904
00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:14,120
Speaker 1: is harder for people who have played by the rules

905
00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:16,319
Speaker 1: of their whole life and deserve it than it should be.

906
00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:20,400
Speaker 1: And I do worry that ultimately, while it's safe for her,

907
00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:23,359
Speaker 1: I worry about it safety for your grandchild or even

908
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:25,920
Speaker 1: for me. Frankly, in light of the fact that we

909
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:31,919
Speaker 1: continue to give away tax cuts rather than investing into

910
00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:36,400
Speaker 1: nursing homes shutting down. Yeah, it is at a moment

911
00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:40,160
Speaker 1: when the country's getting older. Yeah, we're having fewer nursing homes.

912
00:50:40,239 --> 00:50:45,080
Speaker 2: We have the largest group of baby boomers in that

913
00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:47,560
Speaker 2: age group that we have ever had in the history

914
00:50:47,560 --> 00:50:50,799
Speaker 2: of this country, and less resources to take care of

915
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:55,759
Speaker 2: them in their senior years, including veterans. What quick turnaround

916
00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:58,960
Speaker 2: do we need in order to make it safe to

917
00:50:59,000 --> 00:50:59,439
Speaker 2: get old.

918
00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:02,399
Speaker 1: I think you're right that the government needs to make

919
00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:05,040
Speaker 1: investments in this place, but I also think that as

920
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:10,040
Speaker 1: a community, this is a place where frankly, owning these

921
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:13,480
Speaker 1: types of facilities, investing in these facilities give the ability

922
00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:16,520
Speaker 1: to do two things. One do well by a community

923
00:51:16,560 --> 00:51:19,560
Speaker 1: that needs them, but also the economics on this could

924
00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:22,320
Speaker 1: also be a place where more black and brown people

925
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:24,160
Speaker 1: investing in these things could be helpful.

926
00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:25,640
Speaker 2: But how do you get funded?

927
00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:28,880
Speaker 1: I think that's the key reason why you need the

928
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:31,319
Speaker 1: CDIFIND network, and you need other networks to be able

929
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:33,720
Speaker 1: to get access to the funding you need. But who's

930
00:51:33,719 --> 00:51:35,680
Speaker 1: going to pay the bill is also the question, And

931
00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:37,640
Speaker 1: the people who have traditionally paid the bill has been

932
00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:40,680
Speaker 1: the federal government, because we've built a system in which

933
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:45,640
Speaker 1: we pay taxes and Americans work throughout their lives and

934
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:49,000
Speaker 1: they're paying Social Security and into these programs expecting that

935
00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:50,879
Speaker 1: these programs will be there to take care of them

936
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:53,239
Speaker 1: over time. But if there isn't a nursing home to

937
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:55,560
Speaker 1: go to, no matter how much money we have in

938
00:51:55,560 --> 00:51:57,680
Speaker 1: the system, it's not going to work. So I do

939
00:51:57,719 --> 00:52:00,799
Speaker 1: think that we're in a place where where we've made

940
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:04,560
Speaker 1: a set of choices, especially in the latest legislation, that

941
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:07,080
Speaker 1: are going to lead to tax cuts for people who

942
00:52:07,239 --> 00:52:09,680
Speaker 1: may not need them, but over time is going to

943
00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:11,759
Speaker 1: degrade the care for the people who need it most.

944
00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:16,040
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm going to end this with a funny. When

945
00:52:16,080 --> 00:52:21,920
Speaker 2: I first met President Obama, he was Senator Obama, and

946
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:24,520
Speaker 2: after we had a meeting together, he gave me his

947
00:52:24,640 --> 00:52:29,160
Speaker 2: number and I put it in my phone, but I

948
00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:32,080
Speaker 2: didn't think it was a real number when he was

949
00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:36,359
Speaker 2: running for president, Just out of a whim, I call

950
00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:39,920
Speaker 2: the number. He answered the phone. It scared me so bad.

951
00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:43,760
Speaker 2: I couldn't think of nothing to say. I just started

952
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:47,080
Speaker 2: stuttering on the phone. I could not believe that he

953
00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:50,200
Speaker 2: actually answered the phone. I'm sure it doesn't work now,

954
00:52:50,680 --> 00:52:54,239
Speaker 2: But at the time he was that hands on. Is

955
00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:59,279
Speaker 2: that a good description of his propensity to be hands on?

956
00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:03,399
Speaker 2: And what other presidents have we had that were hands all?

957
00:53:04,239 --> 00:53:06,120
Speaker 2: And what are the pros and cons of either way?

958
00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:09,080
Speaker 1: That is such a great story. You should try that

959
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:12,440
Speaker 1: number again. It might be the same number, but I

960
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:15,680
Speaker 1: do think so. I think the key thing is for

961
00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:19,960
Speaker 1: any president they run a country that is diverse and

962
00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:23,120
Speaker 1: has a bunch of challenges and opportunities. And the thing

963
00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:26,520
Speaker 1: that I found with the two that I've worked with

964
00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:30,320
Speaker 1: is when there is a crisis, when there is a challenge,

965
00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:33,200
Speaker 1: they roll up their sleeves and they dive deep into

966
00:53:33,239 --> 00:53:37,000
Speaker 1: it in a way where to go back to the fire. Analogy.

967
00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:42,560
Speaker 1: Human instinct is to run away from fires. The thing

968
00:53:42,560 --> 00:53:46,279
Speaker 1: that I found about great leaders of any party is

969
00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:49,120
Speaker 1: they run towards the fire because the only way to

970
00:53:49,160 --> 00:53:52,640
Speaker 1: get past the smoke and to know what's happening is

971
00:53:52,680 --> 00:53:55,480
Speaker 1: actually to head towards the fire. And that's the thing

972
00:53:55,480 --> 00:53:59,640
Speaker 1: that impressed me most about President Obama during the financial crisis.

973
00:54:00,560 --> 00:54:03,719
Speaker 1: It's something that I saw with President Biden during the

974
00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:07,319
Speaker 1: pandemic in terms of running towards the fire. You know,

975
00:54:08,360 --> 00:54:11,839
Speaker 1: leaders are humans, so they have their strengths and they

976
00:54:11,840 --> 00:54:14,440
Speaker 1: have their flaws. But ultimately, I think the thing that

977
00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:17,400
Speaker 1: I respected most the most, the thing I learned most

978
00:54:17,760 --> 00:54:23,120
Speaker 1: from the President Obama was about the importance of both

979
00:54:23,200 --> 00:54:27,759
Speaker 1: running towards fires, but also demonstrating empathy. Empathy not just

980
00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:31,560
Speaker 1: to the American people when you're speaking to them, but

981
00:54:31,640 --> 00:54:34,439
Speaker 1: empathy to your staff, to the people who you work with.

982
00:54:34,600 --> 00:54:36,840
Speaker 1: And it's an important lesson that I carry with me

983
00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:40,759
Speaker 1: to this day. And I hope you try that phone

984
00:54:40,840 --> 00:54:41,360
Speaker 1: number again.

985
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:45,319
Speaker 2: I'll let you know if it works. I have a

986
00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:48,480
Speaker 2: feeling that you and hate him get in a car

987
00:54:48,480 --> 00:54:51,200
Speaker 2: and pick up some hamburgers and French fries and things

988
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:53,040
Speaker 2: like that. I'm a little bit jealous.

989
00:54:53,640 --> 00:54:56,080
Speaker 1: He is way too healthy to eat a hamburger French fries,

990
00:54:56,280 --> 00:54:59,960
Speaker 1: but he's definitely you know. The thing that I can

991
00:55:00,080 --> 00:55:02,920
Speaker 1: say about the President is any time I have interacted

992
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:06,920
Speaker 1: with him, I have learned something because he is so thoughtful.

993
00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:09,160
Speaker 1: And that's true every time I get to hang out

994
00:55:09,160 --> 00:55:11,239
Speaker 1: with you. That's why I keep doing it. And I

995
00:55:11,239 --> 00:55:13,600
Speaker 1: appreciate you hosting these types of conversations because the thing

996
00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:15,759
Speaker 1: you said in the beginning is so true that it

997
00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:18,880
Speaker 1: is so hard to get I wouldn't even say hard

998
00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:21,839
Speaker 1: to get information. It's hard to get trusted information, right,

999
00:55:22,160 --> 00:55:24,600
Speaker 1: And I appreciate the fact that you're giving this opportunity

1000
00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:26,920
Speaker 1: for the people who listen to you and trust you

1001
00:55:27,160 --> 00:55:28,080
Speaker 1: to hear from other people.

1002
00:55:28,760 --> 00:55:36,160
Speaker 2: Chapter number seven. Trust in America? Who where do you

1003
00:55:36,200 --> 00:55:39,280
Speaker 2: go to when you want accurate news?

1004
00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:41,960
Speaker 1: So for me, the thing that I try and do

1005
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:44,440
Speaker 1: because it is really hard to find accurate news is

1006
00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:50,520
Speaker 1: ideal in quantity. So I read five newspapers in the morning.

1007
00:55:51,080 --> 00:55:54,440
Speaker 1: Then I also do a bunch of aggregators throughout the

1008
00:55:54,520 --> 00:55:56,880
Speaker 1: day to understand and part of what I'm doing in

1009
00:55:56,880 --> 00:56:00,000
Speaker 1: my mind is comparing the differences on the same story.

1010
00:56:00,239 --> 00:56:02,960
Speaker 1: So there's a story in the New York Times about tariffs,

1011
00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:05,640
Speaker 1: there's one also on the Washington Post. I'm looking at

1012
00:56:05,719 --> 00:56:07,800
Speaker 1: the Twitter feed sees trying to figure out what the

1013
00:56:07,840 --> 00:56:11,200
Speaker 1: differences are and then pressing into where did that difference

1014
00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:14,200
Speaker 1: come from? What's going on? So I am one of

1015
00:56:14,239 --> 00:56:16,480
Speaker 1: the things that Larry always said when I work from

1016
00:56:16,560 --> 00:56:19,480
Speaker 1: Larry Fink was be a student of the market. And

1017
00:56:19,520 --> 00:56:22,960
Speaker 1: I think I'm a student of information because ultimately information

1018
00:56:23,080 --> 00:56:26,759
Speaker 1: is power. But most Americans don't have the time, nor

1019
00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:30,760
Speaker 1: should they have to read five newspapers or go through feeds.

1020
00:56:30,760 --> 00:56:33,120
Speaker 1: They should be able to find accurate sources of information.

1021
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:35,800
Speaker 1: And what I found in my job at the Treasure

1022
00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:37,880
Speaker 1: Department because one of the challenges I had at Treasury

1023
00:56:38,080 --> 00:56:40,359
Speaker 1: was the people who often needed the things we did

1024
00:56:40,440 --> 00:56:43,919
Speaker 1: most didn't take advantage of it because frankly, they didn't

1025
00:56:43,920 --> 00:56:44,920
Speaker 1: trust the federal government.

1026
00:56:45,160 --> 00:56:48,440
Speaker 2: Where should we be We can't trust the federal government

1027
00:56:48,520 --> 00:56:51,440
Speaker 2: as the way we used to. Where should we be

1028
00:56:51,520 --> 00:56:54,959
Speaker 2: putting our four one case our investments at this point

1029
00:56:55,000 --> 00:56:58,520
Speaker 2: that are going to be safest for our longevity, especially

1030
00:56:58,800 --> 00:57:01,120
Speaker 2: those of us who are close to needing it.

1031
00:57:01,880 --> 00:57:03,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, I'm not a train I'm not

1032
00:57:03,440 --> 00:57:06,520
Speaker 1: going to give professional investment advice, but I do think

1033
00:57:08,040 --> 00:57:10,399
Speaker 1: I do think that the thing that we've seen over

1034
00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:15,000
Speaker 1: time is the diversified portfolios that charge very low fees

1035
00:57:15,160 --> 00:57:17,000
Speaker 1: is the best way to invest your money.

1036
00:57:16,720 --> 00:57:18,680
Speaker 2: Over time, national or international.

1037
00:57:19,880 --> 00:57:22,640
Speaker 1: You know, the reality is that you want to have

1038
00:57:22,840 --> 00:57:26,560
Speaker 1: the right portfolio mix based on your risk tolerance, and

1039
00:57:26,840 --> 00:57:28,840
Speaker 1: the younger you are, you probably should be willing to

1040
00:57:28,840 --> 00:57:31,720
Speaker 1: take more risk. The thing that I think often people

1041
00:57:31,760 --> 00:57:33,320
Speaker 1: I hear from people is like, I want to be

1042
00:57:33,360 --> 00:57:35,920
Speaker 1: able to invest around my values. So I want to

1043
00:57:35,960 --> 00:57:37,800
Speaker 1: be able to invest more on the continent. I want

1044
00:57:37,800 --> 00:57:42,640
Speaker 1: to be able to invest based on sustainability. The truth

1045
00:57:42,760 --> 00:57:45,800
Speaker 1: is that you can do that. There are index funds

1046
00:57:45,880 --> 00:57:48,520
Speaker 1: that allow you to have that type of exposure. The

1047
00:57:48,640 --> 00:57:50,840
Speaker 1: key for you is to find a good platform that

1048
00:57:50,920 --> 00:57:53,640
Speaker 1: allows you to make these investments. You don't have to necessary.

1049
00:57:53,920 --> 00:57:56,480
Speaker 1: For some people, paying for an investment advisor makes a

1050
00:57:56,480 --> 00:57:58,520
Speaker 1: great deal of sense. For other people, you can use

1051
00:57:58,560 --> 00:58:00,840
Speaker 1: products online that help me give you that investment advice.

1052
00:58:01,160 --> 00:58:05,840
Speaker 1: But to your point, I think that for everyone you

1053
00:58:05,880 --> 00:58:08,320
Speaker 1: need to be thinking about your savings in a way

1054
00:58:08,360 --> 00:58:10,480
Speaker 1: where you don't just leave it in a bank account.

1055
00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:13,760
Speaker 2: Well, it's true. My big dilemma is a lot of

1056
00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:16,440
Speaker 2: our products that are made in America, the parts are

1057
00:58:16,520 --> 00:58:22,720
Speaker 2: made overseas. True, so you come in it's got a

1058
00:58:22,720 --> 00:58:25,240
Speaker 2: big sticker in the back, made in America, but all

1059
00:58:25,280 --> 00:58:31,480
Speaker 2: of the insights were made overseas. And so my point

1060
00:58:31,600 --> 00:58:35,919
Speaker 2: is our economy is so global and so interconnected and

1061
00:58:35,960 --> 00:58:40,120
Speaker 2: so braided together that it's becoming harder and harder to

1062
00:58:40,840 --> 00:58:43,240
Speaker 2: cherry pick where you want to put the investments.

1063
00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:45,840
Speaker 1: I think that's why you want to think about a

1064
00:58:45,880 --> 00:58:49,280
Speaker 1: diversified portfolio, to diversify you both your risk but also

1065
00:58:49,320 --> 00:58:53,160
Speaker 1: your opportunity. There are those who think that the integration

1066
00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:55,280
Speaker 1: of the global economy is not a good thing. There

1067
00:58:55,280 --> 00:58:57,760
Speaker 1: are those who and I think there's some in this

1068
00:58:57,800 --> 00:59:01,000
Speaker 1: administration who think that, But ultimately my view is that

1069
00:59:01,240 --> 00:59:04,960
Speaker 1: it's been hugely beneficial to people. The challenge we have

1070
00:59:05,040 --> 00:59:06,560
Speaker 1: and the thing we have to address is the fact

1071
00:59:06,680 --> 00:59:08,720
Speaker 1: that the people who have benefited the most from that

1072
00:59:08,760 --> 00:59:12,400
Speaker 1: integration are the owners of capital, not the workers who

1073
00:59:12,480 --> 00:59:14,640
Speaker 1: have worked on that But if we can, we need

1074
00:59:14,640 --> 00:59:16,360
Speaker 1: to figure out ways to make sure that people who

1075
00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:18,960
Speaker 1: are working on those supply chains, the people who are

1076
00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:22,080
Speaker 1: building those products, are paid a fair wage. That is

1077
00:59:22,520 --> 00:59:26,840
Speaker 1: the truth. And I think until we address that fundamental challenge,

1078
00:59:27,040 --> 00:59:29,000
Speaker 1: we're going to end up in a place where we

1079
00:59:29,120 --> 00:59:32,120
Speaker 1: feel like our politics is whip sawing back and forth

1080
00:59:32,520 --> 00:59:35,240
Speaker 1: in ways that don't make sense to us and don't

1081
00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:36,640
Speaker 1: make us stronger.

1082
00:59:36,880 --> 00:59:39,200
Speaker 2: I said, the other one was findal question. But I'm

1083
00:59:39,240 --> 00:59:45,320
Speaker 2: a preacher, so I get to close three times the banks.

1084
00:59:46,800 --> 00:59:48,640
Speaker 2: How safe are they?

1085
00:59:49,760 --> 00:59:50,680
Speaker 1: You know, our bank?

1086
00:59:50,760 --> 00:59:53,400
Speaker 2: I know what you're supposed to say, I know what

1087
00:59:53,440 --> 00:59:54,439
Speaker 2: you're supposed to say.

1088
00:59:54,560 --> 00:59:57,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. I think the thing that people don't do

1089
00:59:57,880 --> 01:00:00,800
Speaker 1: enough is explore where they put their money. And I

1090
01:00:00,800 --> 01:00:04,960
Speaker 1: think you have to think about the fact that if

1091
01:00:04,960 --> 01:00:07,560
Speaker 1: you have money and you're putting it into institution, you

1092
01:00:07,560 --> 01:00:10,120
Speaker 1: should know something about that institution. Do a little bit

1093
01:00:10,200 --> 01:00:13,600
Speaker 1: of investigating. But what I will say, which I think

1094
01:00:13,720 --> 01:00:17,600
Speaker 1: I believe deeply, is the American financial system is safer

1095
01:00:17,600 --> 01:00:20,160
Speaker 1: today than it's ever been. But that when I say

1096
01:00:20,160 --> 01:00:22,560
Speaker 1: the system is safe, that doesn't mean every individual is

1097
01:00:22,600 --> 01:00:26,440
Speaker 1: created equally, every institution is created equally. You need to

1098
01:00:26,480 --> 01:00:29,920
Speaker 1: investigate the institution you're putting your money in. Because for

1099
01:00:29,960 --> 01:00:33,400
Speaker 1: a long time, we haven't had many bank failures in

1100
01:00:33,400 --> 01:00:35,840
Speaker 1: this country, but there was a period in the eighties

1101
01:00:35,880 --> 01:00:39,200
Speaker 1: and the nineties where you saw banks and financial institutions fail.

1102
01:00:39,280 --> 01:00:42,400
Speaker 1: When the economy struggles, which it could struggle at any point,

1103
01:00:43,160 --> 01:00:45,880
Speaker 1: banks struggle too, and so you have to I think

1104
01:00:45,880 --> 01:00:46,760
Speaker 1: you have to pay ten travel.

1105
01:00:46,800 --> 01:00:50,320
Speaker 2: It was a great PR answer, That was a great

1106
01:00:50,360 --> 01:00:54,360
Speaker 2: PR But I guess what I'm asking you. What I'm

1107
01:00:54,400 --> 01:00:58,320
Speaker 2: asking you with the countries that are going to return

1108
01:00:58,400 --> 01:01:01,080
Speaker 2: back the dollar, that are moving away from the dollar,

1109
01:01:01,320 --> 01:01:03,320
Speaker 2: and we're going to be flooded with the dollar coming

1110
01:01:03,360 --> 01:01:06,160
Speaker 2: into the economy and the value of the dollar is

1111
01:01:06,200 --> 01:01:09,480
Speaker 2: going to decrease, how much should we be worried about

1112
01:01:09,520 --> 01:01:11,640
Speaker 2: the longevity of strong banks.

1113
01:01:15,560 --> 01:01:17,560
Speaker 1: So my view is that you're going to see you

1114
01:01:17,880 --> 01:01:21,400
Speaker 1: are likely to see more bank failures, but you're also

1115
01:01:21,520 --> 01:01:25,040
Speaker 1: gonna you know, you look at the sn L crisis,

1116
01:01:25,680 --> 01:01:28,560
Speaker 1: saving the little crisis that happened, there are a number

1117
01:01:28,560 --> 01:01:31,640
Speaker 1: of banks failed, some consolidated. I think you've got to

1118
01:01:31,680 --> 01:01:34,680
Speaker 1: worry about in a moment of weakness, what does happen

1119
01:01:34,760 --> 01:01:36,920
Speaker 1: to financial institutions. But I think the biggest risk to

1120
01:01:36,960 --> 01:01:38,480
Speaker 1: our financi system, which I thought we were going to

1121
01:01:38,480 --> 01:01:41,120
Speaker 1: get a chance to talk to talk about under this

1122
01:01:41,200 --> 01:01:45,960
Speaker 1: conversation is crypto. And you think about what's happening in

1123
01:01:46,080 --> 01:01:51,200
Speaker 1: terms of digital payments, That to me is technology is

1124
01:01:51,240 --> 01:01:55,040
Speaker 1: the risk to banks today, more so than what's happening

1125
01:01:55,160 --> 01:01:58,480
Speaker 1: with tariffs and things of that nature. And you're seeing

1126
01:01:58,520 --> 01:02:00,120
Speaker 1: many of these banks trying to figure out how how

1127
01:02:00,160 --> 01:02:02,680
Speaker 1: do we get into this game so this game doesn't

1128
01:02:02,680 --> 01:02:04,120
Speaker 1: take over the game we've been playing.

1129
01:02:03,840 --> 01:02:05,600
Speaker 2: For the last I just read an article the other

1130
01:02:05,720 --> 01:02:09,040
Speaker 2: day that ninety eight percent of our banking institutions are

1131
01:02:09,080 --> 01:02:14,320
Speaker 2: either thinking about studying or engage in some sort of

1132
01:02:15,280 --> 01:02:21,800
Speaker 2: cryptocurrency cybercurrency. That it's epidemic. It's it's the pandemic that

1133
01:02:21,840 --> 01:02:22,840
Speaker 2: we cannot see.

1134
01:02:23,480 --> 01:02:25,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I'd worry about the other two percent, honestly,

1135
01:02:25,960 --> 01:02:28,160
Speaker 1: because I think if you're not thinking about it, if

1136
01:02:28,200 --> 01:02:30,520
Speaker 1: you're not worried about it, if you're not engaged in it,

1137
01:02:30,720 --> 01:02:34,800
Speaker 1: that means that you're probably going to be left out

1138
01:02:34,880 --> 01:02:37,600
Speaker 1: of what I think is a huge transition in the

1139
01:02:37,720 --> 01:02:41,280
Speaker 1: way that banking is happening in this country. It's a

1140
01:02:41,520 --> 01:02:44,440
Speaker 1: question as a matter of when not if, that's going

1141
01:02:44,480 --> 01:02:46,600
Speaker 1: to be a larger part of the economy. So I

1142
01:02:46,680 --> 01:02:49,400
Speaker 1: do when I think about the risk to banking, I'm

1143
01:02:49,440 --> 01:02:54,680
Speaker 1: probably more focused on digital payments on crypto than I

1144
01:02:54,720 --> 01:02:56,480
Speaker 1: am right now on.

1145
01:02:57,320 --> 01:03:00,480
Speaker 2: The sweetbag of money coming back into country. So when

1146
01:03:00,520 --> 01:03:03,240
Speaker 2: you're vetting the banks, we should be vetting them by

1147
01:03:03,960 --> 01:03:08,360
Speaker 2: their technology, and their cryptocurrency should be a major part

1148
01:03:08,400 --> 01:03:11,040
Speaker 2: of how we vet the likelihood or whereuld we put

1149
01:03:11,040 --> 01:03:11,480
Speaker 2: our money.

1150
01:03:11,520 --> 01:03:15,520
Speaker 1: I would start with cybersecurity because the truth is that

1151
01:03:16,840 --> 01:03:20,200
Speaker 1: no one people who rob banks today, they don't show

1152
01:03:20,280 --> 01:03:25,040
Speaker 1: up at the horse. They don't do that anymore. They

1153
01:03:25,120 --> 01:03:29,120
Speaker 1: do it through code, and many of these banks are

1154
01:03:29,160 --> 01:03:32,840
Speaker 1: not investing in simple cyber hygiene that you do in

1155
01:03:32,880 --> 01:03:35,320
Speaker 1: your house. So I think you've got to start with cybersecurity,

1156
01:03:35,480 --> 01:03:37,120
Speaker 1: and then you've got to figure out and that speaks

1157
01:03:37,120 --> 01:03:39,680
Speaker 1: to the technology, because ultimately, if you have a good

1158
01:03:39,760 --> 01:03:43,800
Speaker 1: technology stack, you're thinking about how you could better serve

1159
01:03:43,840 --> 01:03:45,800
Speaker 1: your customers in a lot of different ways.

1160
01:03:46,400 --> 01:03:48,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you for leading me into that question because

1161
01:03:48,880 --> 01:03:51,160
Speaker 2: it was something that I did mean to cover with you,

1162
01:03:51,520 --> 01:03:53,720
Speaker 2: and I do think it's going to become more and more.

1163
01:03:54,880 --> 01:03:57,600
Speaker 2: I'm saying in the next five years, would you put

1164
01:03:57,640 --> 01:03:59,840
Speaker 2: the time frame on it or thirty years?

1165
01:04:00,320 --> 01:04:02,720
Speaker 1: No, I think I'd say sooner rather than later. And

1166
01:04:02,760 --> 01:04:04,440
Speaker 1: I think it's you know, there's all kinds of things

1167
01:04:04,480 --> 01:04:09,280
Speaker 1: that this crypto, there's stable coins, there's blockchain, all of

1168
01:04:09,320 --> 01:04:11,760
Speaker 1: which are in the same family of how do we

1169
01:04:11,960 --> 01:04:15,560
Speaker 1: break down the traditional payments system? And the reason this

1170
01:04:15,680 --> 01:04:18,160
Speaker 1: matters is both in terms of thinking about your wealth,

1171
01:04:18,320 --> 01:04:23,120
Speaker 1: but also when you think about sending money to the dashpor.

1172
01:04:24,280 --> 01:04:27,520
Speaker 1: I remember as a young child when I would my

1173
01:04:27,680 --> 01:04:32,840
Speaker 1: parents would drive to Western Union and get charged extraordinary

1174
01:04:32,880 --> 01:04:36,440
Speaker 1: feuds to spend a small amount of money to family

1175
01:04:36,480 --> 01:04:39,720
Speaker 1: members somewhere else in the world. In some ways, the

1176
01:04:39,840 --> 01:04:43,240
Speaker 1: changes in payments is going to make has reduced the

1177
01:04:43,280 --> 01:04:47,920
Speaker 1: cost of doing that significantly, and this next evolution of

1178
01:04:48,000 --> 01:04:51,160
Speaker 1: crypto and stable coins is likely to even lower that

1179
01:04:51,280 --> 01:04:53,080
Speaker 1: even more close it.

1180
01:04:53,240 --> 01:05:01,880
Speaker 2: Now, do you worry about the privacy as we integrate

1181
01:05:02,080 --> 01:05:10,760
Speaker 2: this new system? Everything you buy, Uncle Sam is watching you,

1182
01:05:11,720 --> 01:05:16,320
Speaker 2: everything you do, everywhere you go, every time you turn

1183
01:05:16,360 --> 01:05:20,440
Speaker 2: on your air conditioner. We are so integrated into AI

1184
01:05:21,280 --> 01:05:26,360
Speaker 2: that as we have lost all privacy. Do you worry

1185
01:05:26,400 --> 01:05:27,160
Speaker 2: about that at all?

1186
01:05:30,240 --> 01:05:31,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I don't think that's a new problem. I

1187
01:05:31,920 --> 01:05:35,560
Speaker 1: think that the truth is that the integration we have

1188
01:05:35,720 --> 01:05:38,000
Speaker 1: into the world, and each one of us is carrying

1189
01:05:38,000 --> 01:05:40,440
Speaker 1: a phone, each one of us is like, I'm we're

1190
01:05:40,440 --> 01:05:43,160
Speaker 1: in a smart watch and all.

1191
01:05:43,120 --> 01:05:45,680
Speaker 2: These Yeah, but it didn't tie into how we spend

1192
01:05:45,720 --> 01:05:46,240
Speaker 2: our money.

1193
01:05:47,240 --> 01:05:50,160
Speaker 1: I spend a lot of money on my phone. I

1194
01:05:50,240 --> 01:05:53,959
Speaker 1: just taped that phone, and that's true. That's true.

1195
01:05:54,000 --> 01:05:56,080
Speaker 2: I got I still got a back.

1196
01:05:56,280 --> 01:05:58,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I think you're right that it's becoming more

1197
01:05:58,960 --> 01:06:03,280
Speaker 1: ubiquitous over time, and the more ubiquitous it is. The

1198
01:06:03,560 --> 01:06:06,240
Speaker 1: truth is that I'm less worried about the government. I'm

1199
01:06:06,240 --> 01:06:10,280
Speaker 1: more worried about these companies and the fact that they

1200
01:06:10,280 --> 01:06:12,680
Speaker 1: don't they're using my data to do all kinds of things.

1201
01:06:12,720 --> 01:06:14,760
Speaker 1: They're selling my data to other people. I don't know

1202
01:06:14,800 --> 01:06:16,960
Speaker 1: who those people are. I'd made an agreement with you

1203
01:06:17,040 --> 01:06:18,640
Speaker 1: to buy my phone. I didn't make an agreement with

1204
01:06:18,680 --> 01:06:20,520
Speaker 1: that company in a third country that has my data.

1205
01:06:20,800 --> 01:06:22,800
Speaker 1: I think one of the things we don't pay enough

1206
01:06:22,840 --> 01:06:26,640
Speaker 1: attention to as Americans, people in general, is our data.

1207
01:06:27,400 --> 01:06:30,360
Speaker 1: Our data is valuable. Our data is being sold on

1208
01:06:30,400 --> 01:06:34,680
Speaker 1: a regular basis. It is probably you know, it is

1209
01:06:34,920 --> 01:06:38,520
Speaker 1: data in some ways is the twenty first centuries oil,

1210
01:06:39,440 --> 01:06:42,400
Speaker 1: and it is being owned and gobbled up by very

1211
01:06:42,400 --> 01:06:45,280
Speaker 1: few companies in this country and then being used to

1212
01:06:45,360 --> 01:06:48,080
Speaker 1: train these AI systems that is also going to make

1213
01:06:48,080 --> 01:06:50,040
Speaker 1: them money off of you. So I think we don't

1214
01:06:50,040 --> 01:06:53,160
Speaker 1: think enough about our data and how it's being aggregated

1215
01:06:53,200 --> 01:06:55,040
Speaker 1: and used, and that does cause me concern.

1216
01:06:55,120 --> 01:06:58,960
Speaker 2: So it's artificial intelligence is learning from human intelligence? Is

1217
01:06:59,000 --> 01:07:03,480
Speaker 2: it not true that the biases and prejudices of humanity

1218
01:07:04,160 --> 01:07:06,760
Speaker 2: is integrating into the system.

1219
01:07:07,000 --> 01:07:08,680
Speaker 1: That is my fear. And I think the thing that

1220
01:07:08,720 --> 01:07:11,000
Speaker 1: I'll admit to, which is something I'm trying to change,

1221
01:07:11,040 --> 01:07:13,479
Speaker 1: is that I don't feel like I'm smart enough on AI.

1222
01:07:13,960 --> 01:07:17,560
Speaker 1: I don't know enough, and I want to learn more

1223
01:07:17,560 --> 01:07:19,720
Speaker 1: and I'm doing everything I can to learn more. But

1224
01:07:20,120 --> 01:07:22,240
Speaker 1: the thing that I am afraid of is exactly what

1225
01:07:22,280 --> 01:07:25,920
Speaker 1: you stated, which is that ultimately these systems are being

1226
01:07:25,960 --> 01:07:28,480
Speaker 1: created by humans, so they're going to have the same

1227
01:07:28,680 --> 01:07:33,200
Speaker 1: challenges that humans have, both in terms of biases, but

1228
01:07:33,320 --> 01:07:37,160
Speaker 1: also the thing I always worry about his control The

1229
01:07:37,200 --> 01:07:40,120
Speaker 1: people who control these systems that have a great deal

1230
01:07:40,160 --> 01:07:43,760
Speaker 1: of power, don't necessarily look like me, come from where

1231
01:07:43,800 --> 01:07:46,280
Speaker 1: I came from, or care about the things I care about.

1232
01:07:46,320 --> 01:07:49,120
Speaker 1: And we don't really have a system for regulating or

1233
01:07:49,160 --> 01:07:52,240
Speaker 1: thinking about these things. And they're happening very fast.

1234
01:07:52,640 --> 01:07:55,360
Speaker 2: Ladies and gentlemen, at a wallet, at a emo, can

1235
01:07:55,400 --> 01:08:00,920
Speaker 2: you give him a big round of blood. You are

1236
01:08:01,000 --> 01:08:05,160
Speaker 2: listening to your next chapter, my next chapter, our next chapter,

1237
01:08:05,800 --> 01:08:10,440
Speaker 2: and it is very interesting the ambiguity of how that

1238
01:08:10,560 --> 01:08:13,680
Speaker 2: chapter will be written. Be careful, but you right because

1239
01:08:13,720 --> 01:08:18,680
Speaker 2: your children to live in it. Take care. Hey, everybody,

1240
01:08:18,720 --> 01:08:20,720
Speaker 2: I want to take this time to thank you for

1241
01:08:20,840 --> 01:08:26,120
Speaker 2: watching the Next Chapter podcast. If this conversation inspired you,

1242
01:08:26,240 --> 01:08:30,639
Speaker 2: helped you reflect on an idea, or spark something new

1243
01:08:31,040 --> 01:08:35,560
Speaker 2: inside of you, make sure to like, comment, and subscribe

1244
01:08:35,640 --> 01:08:42,160
Speaker 2: so you don't miss future episodes. Remember, life isn't about

1245
01:08:42,160 --> 01:08:46,519
Speaker 2: how you begin, It's about how you finished strong. So

1246
01:08:46,680 --> 01:08:52,679
Speaker 2: start your next chapter with us right here. Every week,