WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 255 0:00:01.870 --> 0:00:04.010 Call zone media. Hey, everybody. 0:00:04.230 --> 0:00:06.120 Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let you know 0:00:06.380 --> 0:00:09.879 this is a compilation episode. So every episode of the 0:00:09.920 --> 0:00:13.700 week that just happened is here in one convenient and 0:00:13.760 --> 0:00:17.020 with somewhat less ads package for you to listen to 0:00:17.079 --> 0:00:19.340 in a long stretch if you want. If you've been 0:00:19.360 --> 0:00:21.390 listening to the episodes every day this week, there's going 0:00:21.410 --> 0:00:23.430 to be nothing new here for you, but you can 0:00:23.470 --> 0:00:24.410 make your own decisions. 0:00:29.080 --> 0:00:29.620 Hello, everyone. 0:00:29.900 --> 0:00:32.060 My name is Danal Kurd, and I'm a researcher and 0:00:32.100 --> 0:00:35.580 analyst of Arab and Palestinian politics. Today, I want to 0:00:35.620 --> 0:00:38.370 read remarks I gave at an event about higher education, 0:00:39.150 --> 0:00:42.410 where I was invited to give the introductory remarks before 0:00:42.430 --> 0:00:44.650 a panel of experts were going to speak on the 0:00:44.670 --> 0:00:47.430 subject of higher ed around the world. And I was 0:00:47.510 --> 0:00:50.430 asked specifically to talk about attacks on academic freedom here 0:00:50.450 --> 0:00:53.540 in the United States. And I'm a good sport, always 0:00:53.580 --> 0:00:54.320 happy to be of service. 0:00:54.540 --> 0:00:54.980 So I did. 0:00:55.990 --> 0:01:00.550 But then I was accused after my remarks of downplaying anti-Semitism. 0:01:01.430 --> 0:01:04.210 So for this episode, I want to read those remarks 0:01:04.850 --> 0:01:07.610 that I gave at this event. And then I'll explain 0:01:07.660 --> 0:01:10.280 why that accusation that was leveled against me is so 0:01:10.440 --> 0:01:14.200 insidious and harmful and outrageous and is part of a 0:01:14.260 --> 0:01:19.180 broader problem of rampant anti-Palestinian racism in the United States. Okay, 0:01:19.800 --> 0:01:22.300 here are the remarks I made at that event. Thank 0:01:22.340 --> 0:01:24.860 you all for attending this panel. I wanted to briefly 0:01:24.920 --> 0:01:28.610 situate this next discussion in the current political landscape and 0:01:28.650 --> 0:01:31.590 give a quick rundown of what has been happening. The 0:01:31.630 --> 0:01:35.550 news is so overwhelming, some of these details can be lost. First, 0:01:35.890 --> 0:01:37.510 I think most of us have heard of the Trump 0:01:37.530 --> 0:01:41.450 administration freezing funding for a number of universities. Many of 0:01:41.490 --> 0:01:45.600 these universities have entered into negotiations with the administration and 0:01:45.640 --> 0:01:48.580 agreed to make changes to the curriculum and internal structures 0:01:49.240 --> 0:01:51.960 in order to drop the investigations against them and release 0:01:52.000 --> 0:01:57.080 that funding. For example, Columbia University agreed to pay the 0:01:57.120 --> 0:02:01.840 Trump administration $ 220 million, punish 70 of its students in 0:02:01.860 --> 0:02:06.080 a variety of ways, including expulsion, and agreed to monitor 0:02:06.120 --> 0:02:10.710 and report their programs for, quote, unlawful DEI goals. One 0:02:10.720 --> 0:02:12.990 of the ways Columbia has agreed to monitor their own departments, 0:02:13.530 --> 0:02:16.870 as The Intercept reported back in April, is by appointing 0:02:17.010 --> 0:02:19.950 a vice provost in charge of ensuring a balanced curriculum, 0:02:20.370 --> 0:02:23.700 that's in quotes, within the Middle Eastern, South Asian, and 0:02:23.760 --> 0:02:27.380 African Studies Department. So the faculty in that department will 0:02:27.419 --> 0:02:31.360 no longer run the department. As the Middle East Studies Association, 0:02:31.560 --> 0:02:35.130 in a statement back in March 2025, noted, placing the 0:02:35.169 --> 0:02:40.010 department under, quote, administrative receivership is a fundamental abrogation of 0:02:40.030 --> 0:02:44.900 the autonomy of university governance. Like at Columbia, a lot 0:02:44.940 --> 0:02:48.160 of these investigations and targeting of universities has focused on 0:02:48.200 --> 0:02:52.700 the presence of DEI programs and allegations of anti-Semitism. The 0:02:52.720 --> 0:02:55.720 Trump administration has been aided by recent Supreme Court rulings, 0:02:56.260 --> 0:02:58.940 particularly the cases of Students for Fair Admissions v. the 0:02:58.980 --> 0:03:02.100 University of North Carolina and Students for Fair Admissions v. 0:03:02.139 --> 0:03:02.480 Harvard. 0:03:03.220 --> 0:03:06.500 These cases overturned the 2003 case of Greta v. Bollinger 0:03:07.000 --> 0:03:10.620 that had allowed higher education institutions to consider race in admissions. 0:03:11.830 --> 0:03:15.010 Using this ruling, the Trump administration has gone after universities 0:03:15.510 --> 0:03:18.550 with programs that assist students of color, as well as 0:03:18.610 --> 0:03:23.340 initiatives focused on diversity. Allegations of anti-Semitism, especially in the 0:03:23.360 --> 0:03:26.420 wake of campus protests over the past two years, have 0:03:26.500 --> 0:03:29.980 also been used to attack universities. The American Association of 0:03:30.060 --> 0:03:33.880 University Professors, in partnership with the Middle East Studies Association, 0:03:34.639 --> 0:03:38.420 analyzed the data on the Title VI complaints around anti-Semitism, 0:03:39.060 --> 0:03:42.190 which have indeed ballooned over the past two years. In 0:03:42.240 --> 0:03:47.060 their report titled, Discriminating Against Dissent, they found that most 0:03:47.120 --> 0:03:52.800 government investigations of anti-Semitism, 78%, are prompted by complaints received 0:03:52.880 --> 0:03:56.940 from outside of university and college campuses, including from people 0:03:56.980 --> 0:04:00.600 and organizations who have no relationship with the schools under investigation. 0:04:01.500 --> 0:04:04.250 Of the 102 complaints filed with the Office of Civil 0:04:04.280 --> 0:04:08.550 Rights that the report analyzes, all but one focus on 0:04:08.630 --> 0:04:11.910 speech critical of Israel. The report documents the surge in 0:04:11.950 --> 0:04:17.089 investigations since October 7th, 2023, with more investigations opened in 0:04:17.130 --> 0:04:20.909 the last two months of 2023, 25 investigations, than in 0:04:21.050 --> 0:04:26.330 all previous years combined, 24 investigations. Investigations broke record numbers 0:04:26.380 --> 0:04:27.600 in 2024, 39 investigations, and are on track to do 0:04:27.620 --> 0:04:29.890 so again in 2025, with 38 investigations as of September 30th. 0:04:29.900 --> 0:04:39.360 This was back in 2025. So the Trump administration has 0:04:39.480 --> 0:04:43.960 used both of these things, DEI and anti-Semitism, to investigate universities. 0:04:45.040 --> 0:04:47.320 At the same time, they have also attacked the National 0:04:47.360 --> 0:04:50.940 Science Foundation, the National Endowment for the Humanities, National Institutes 0:04:50.960 --> 0:04:53.880 of Health, all federal funding sources for the majority of 0:04:53.940 --> 0:04:57.880 research that happens at universities across disciplines, the natural sciences, 0:04:58.080 --> 0:05:02.679 social sciences, and humanities. The Trump administration has additionally attacked 0:05:02.740 --> 0:05:05.500 foreign students and the processes by which they are able 0:05:05.520 --> 0:05:07.940 to get visas to study in the United States, which 0:05:08.040 --> 0:05:10.520 is another way to get at a major revenue source 0:05:10.720 --> 0:05:15.140 for many universities. Finally, and most recently, the Trump administration 0:05:15.190 --> 0:05:17.930 put together what they called the Compact for Academic Excellence 0:05:17.970 --> 0:05:22.970 in Higher Education. This compact offers universities that sign preferential 0:05:23.010 --> 0:05:26.010 treatment for federal research money in exchange for agreeing to 0:05:26.070 --> 0:05:30.930 a list of conditions. Conditions include freezing tuition, capping international enrollment, 0:05:31.290 --> 0:05:35.130 requiring the SAT, and limiting faculty speech on political issues. 0:05:36.210 --> 0:05:39.289 Only one university thus far has indicated their willingness to sign, 0:05:39.930 --> 0:05:43.360 the University of Texas at Austin, with most rejecting and 0:05:43.390 --> 0:05:47.659 a few expressing reservations. Whatever you personally think of these trends, 0:05:47.900 --> 0:05:49.900 I think what they make clear is that there is 0:05:49.940 --> 0:05:52.520 a concerted effort to change the trajectory and scope of 0:05:52.560 --> 0:05:55.420 higher education in this country. And members of the Trump 0:05:55.440 --> 0:05:59.640 administration have certainly made this explicitly clear. Vice President J.D. Vance, 0:05:59.680 --> 0:06:02.160 speaking to the National Conservatism Conference back in 2021, said, quote, 0:06:04.050 --> 0:06:06.630 we have to honestly and aggressively attack the universities in 0:06:06.650 --> 0:06:10.850 this country, and that, quote, universities are the enemy. So 0:06:11.070 --> 0:06:13.370 this is the reality we are facing, and there is 0:06:13.390 --> 0:06:15.910 an urgency in understanding how this impacts the quality of 0:06:15.950 --> 0:06:20.349 education in American universities for students, the quality of faculty research, 0:06:20.930 --> 0:06:24.270 the ability of universities to maintain their independence, and the 0:06:24.310 --> 0:06:39.350 role of universities in generating social mobility for marginalized people. Okay, 0:06:39.370 --> 0:06:42.600 so that's what I said in my introductory remarks before 0:06:42.650 --> 0:06:45.780 I turned it over to the speakers. Again, I was 0:06:46.060 --> 0:06:51.659 accused of downplaying anti-Semitism, and I was also likened to neo-Nazis. 0:06:52.520 --> 0:06:52.760 Why? 0:06:52.779 --> 0:06:57.460 For citing the report by the AAUP. In case people 0:06:57.520 --> 0:07:02.200 don't know, this is a very insidious trope of anti-Palestinian racism, 0:07:02.500 --> 0:07:07.020 often leveled at Palestinians. The idea that Palestinians are inherently 0:07:07.279 --> 0:07:11.260 anti-Semitic that they are akin to Nazis, that their identity 0:07:11.360 --> 0:07:14.260 is not a national one similar to every other nationality, 0:07:15.000 --> 0:07:18.060 but that Palestinian is a type of ideology centered on 0:07:18.080 --> 0:07:23.120 the hatred of Jews. That is anti-Palestinian racism. UC Berkeley's 0:07:23.140 --> 0:07:25.560 Department of Ethnic Studies has a pretty useful video on 0:07:25.580 --> 0:07:29.650 the subject, on how anti-Palestinian racism is predicated on the 0:07:29.710 --> 0:07:33.730 assumption that Palestinians are a threat to public order, and 0:07:33.770 --> 0:07:37.350 that it presupposes Palestinians, quote, do not enjoy the same 0:07:37.410 --> 0:07:42.050 rights to safety, and flourishing as others. Now, this overlaps 0:07:42.290 --> 0:07:45.810 with racism against Arabs and white supremacy against people of 0:07:45.870 --> 0:07:50.190 color generally. It overlaps with Islamophobia, but it is also 0:07:50.270 --> 0:07:54.820 something distinct. There's a large literature on this. Dina Hurwitz 0:07:54.900 --> 0:07:59.780 and Walter White, writing for the American Bar Association, highlight how, quote, 0:08:00.460 --> 0:08:04.740 anti-Palestinian racism may also be Islamophobic, but importantly, not all 0:08:04.760 --> 0:08:07.770 Palestinians or all Arabs are Muslim. Just as not all 0:08:07.810 --> 0:08:11.630 Muslims are Arab, anti-Palestinian racism foments a distinct form of 0:08:11.690 --> 0:08:15.290 discrimination faced by Palestinians and those advocating for Palestinian rights, 0:08:15.770 --> 0:08:20.770 including non-Arabs and non-Muslims, for example Christians and Jews. Palestinians 0:08:20.810 --> 0:08:25.120 and their advocates encounter anti-Palestinian racism and Islamophobia, regardless of 0:08:25.160 --> 0:08:29.820 whether they identify as secular, Muslim, Christian, Druze, or Jewish. 0:08:30.620 --> 0:08:30.980 End quote. 0:08:32.080 --> 0:08:35.520 The Arab Canadian Lawyers Association has a report also on 0:08:35.559 --> 0:08:40.840 this subject titled Anti-Palestinian Racism, Naming, Framing, and Manifestations. And 0:08:40.880 --> 0:08:44.959 they define it right on the first page. Quote, Anti-Palestinian 0:08:45.000 --> 0:08:52.200 racism is a form of anti-Arab racism that silences, excludes, erases, stereotypes, defames, 0:08:52.540 --> 0:08:57.839 or dehumanizes Palestinians or their narratives. Anti-Palestinian racism takes various forms, 0:08:57.940 --> 0:09:02.689 including denying the Nakba and justifying violence against Palestinians. failing 0:09:02.710 --> 0:09:06.730 to acknowledge Palestinians as an indigenous people with a collective identity, belonging, 0:09:06.870 --> 0:09:10.450 and rights in relation to occupied Palestine, erasing the human 0:09:10.470 --> 0:09:13.880 rights and equal dignity and worth of Palestinians, excluding or 0:09:13.900 --> 0:09:17.960 pressuring others to exclude Palestinian perspectives, Palestinians and their allies, 0:09:18.760 --> 0:09:22.199 defaming Palestinians and their allies with slander, such as being 0:09:22.260 --> 0:09:28.089 inherently anti-Semitic, a terrorist threat-slash-sympathizer, or opposed to democratic values. 0:09:29.280 --> 0:09:33.100 And finally, political scientists Yasmin Aboulaban and Abigail Bakan wrote 0:09:33.120 --> 0:09:35.440 a helpful essay on the matter for the Project on 0:09:35.480 --> 0:09:37.590 Middle East Political Science, which I will link in the 0:09:37.620 --> 0:09:42.090 show notes as well. They write, quote, Anti-Palestinian racism is 0:09:42.130 --> 0:09:44.150 a form of racism which does not say its name. 0:09:44.910 --> 0:09:49.850 Anti-Palestinian racism relies on various forms of coding to hide divisive, 0:09:50.010 --> 0:09:53.809 undemocratic practices of exclusion in an age where overt racism 0:09:53.890 --> 0:09:57.110 is considered ideologically distasteful. Now, they were writing a few 0:09:57.130 --> 0:09:59.970 years ago, so I'm not sure how distasteful it remains. 0:10:00.940 --> 0:10:04.200 But let me continue. Quote, The complexity is furthered in 0:10:04.220 --> 0:10:07.160 that the language of anti-Semitism and Jewish suffering, language that 0:10:07.220 --> 0:10:10.660 addresses systemic racism against the Jewish people, is a central 0:10:10.760 --> 0:10:14.920 means through which to code anti-Palestinian racism and thereby suppress 0:10:15.020 --> 0:10:19.390 claims for redress. I am currently, while recording this podcast 0:10:19.410 --> 0:10:21.630 for you all, doing this thing where I'm going to 0:10:21.670 --> 0:10:25.150 great lengths to prove that what I experienced isn't just 0:10:25.190 --> 0:10:28.069 in my head. It isn't just me being overly sensitive. 0:10:28.809 --> 0:10:30.870 That it isn't a situation where maybe the person who 0:10:30.910 --> 0:10:34.290 complained had a good reason. That this was anti-Palestinian racism. 0:10:35.210 --> 0:10:37.770 There is this huge body of work and so much 0:10:37.870 --> 0:10:42.120 evidence outlining what anti-Palestinian racism is. There's even an argument 0:10:42.130 --> 0:10:45.160 that it animates broader Islamophobia in the United States. And 0:10:45.179 --> 0:10:48.960 it is a very real problem. But as Toni Morrison said, quote, 0:10:49.530 --> 0:10:53.420 The function, the very serious function of racism, is distraction. 0:10:54.080 --> 0:10:56.520 It keeps you from doing your work. It keeps you 0:10:56.580 --> 0:11:00.440 explaining over and over again your reason for being. So 0:11:00.500 --> 0:11:03.280 every time we take the accusation at face value and 0:11:03.340 --> 0:11:06.939 launch into justifications, into mustering all the evidence that the 0:11:06.980 --> 0:11:11.489 accusation is false, compiling the research and reports, that is 0:11:11.530 --> 0:11:14.810 a waste of time. Arguably, even this episode is me 0:11:14.850 --> 0:11:18.630 wasting my time in the way that racists intended. But 0:11:19.020 --> 0:11:21.280 I also think there is an important function of discussing 0:11:21.320 --> 0:11:25.650 anti-Palestinian racism, both for this episode and for the broader discourse. 0:11:26.450 --> 0:11:30.170 The function is to start more immediately identifying it, pointing 0:11:30.230 --> 0:11:33.030 and calling it out, and distinguishing it as a separate 0:11:33.070 --> 0:11:36.839 thing that Palestinians in this country face. Because for Palestinians 0:11:36.880 --> 0:11:39.140 in this country and a number of other countries, but 0:11:39.160 --> 0:11:42.060 I'm speaking about the United States here, the situation has 0:11:42.080 --> 0:11:45.940 gotten worse. And for Palestinian academics, which I can specifically 0:11:45.960 --> 0:11:49.100 speak to, the situation in higher education has gotten worse. 0:11:50.160 --> 0:11:52.400 The Middle East Studies Association has launched something called the 0:11:52.500 --> 0:11:56.000 Academic Freedom Initiative, where they collect data on how institutions 0:11:56.020 --> 0:11:58.420 of higher education are cracking down on their employees and 0:11:58.460 --> 0:12:01.770 students in a variety of ways around the issue of Palestine. 0:12:02.610 --> 0:12:05.050 And let's be clear, they weaponize the issue of Palestine 0:12:05.110 --> 0:12:09.650 to take away faculty governance or any kind of independence, 0:12:10.510 --> 0:12:15.030 whatever is left of it, on these campuses. So for example, 0:12:15.090 --> 0:12:20.390 the Academic Freedom Initiative record 139 instances of employment retaliation. 0:12:20.429 --> 0:12:25.600 So that's the universities retaliating against their employees. With 46% 0:12:25.600 --> 0:12:29.240 of those who faced retaliation eventually terminated from employment altogether. 0:12:30.260 --> 0:12:35.760 According to the latest update on their website, August 20th, 2026, 62% 0:12:35.760 --> 0:12:40.500 of Title VI investigations at universities about antisemitism were instigated 0:12:40.660 --> 0:12:45.130 by outside actors outside the university. And out of 116 0:12:45.130 --> 0:12:51.569 events that they record universities interfering with, events related to Palestine, 55% 0:12:51.570 --> 0:12:55.189 were cancelled. This is the state of affairs in higher ed. 0:12:56.290 --> 0:13:00.210 Anti-Palestinian racism is rampant. But it's also, of course, rampant 0:13:00.250 --> 0:13:03.860 in other sectors and in our discourse. And last but 0:13:03.900 --> 0:13:08.439 not least, this country's official policies. But allies can refuse 0:13:08.500 --> 0:13:11.180 to allow this to go unchecked. and can start to 0:13:11.240 --> 0:13:15.830 insist that this kind of racism is identified and not tolerated. So, 0:13:16.610 --> 0:13:20.110 the racists wanted me to waste my time. But hopefully 0:13:20.150 --> 0:13:22.650 this can also be a call to action, to stand 0:13:22.710 --> 0:13:26.449 up against anti-Palestinian racism more staunchly than before. Because we 0:13:26.490 --> 0:13:29.600 need it. That's all I have for you today. Thanks 0:13:29.620 --> 0:13:29.980 for listening. 0:13:41.170 --> 0:13:45.630 The midterm elections are just two weeks away, with early 0:13:45.690 --> 0:13:50.510 voting already underway. And this year, more than many others 0:13:50.590 --> 0:13:53.930 in recent memory, there has been a plethora of attempts 0:13:54.010 --> 0:13:57.089 to make it harder for you to vote, or making 0:13:57.130 --> 0:14:00.870 it so your vote may not count the same way 0:14:00.990 --> 0:14:06.030 it has before. Literally, in cases legislating whether Trump can 0:14:06.130 --> 0:14:10.410 prevent mail-in ballots from being counted after Election Day, which... 0:14:10.809 --> 0:14:16.750 he cannot, but also through partisan gerrymandering, mid-decade redistricting, and 0:14:17.070 --> 0:14:20.050 the gutting of the Voting Rights Act, which has resulted 0:14:20.120 --> 0:14:22.540 in the votes of some Black Americans in the South 0:14:23.080 --> 0:14:28.460 being diluted across newly drawn districts. The president has promised 0:14:28.500 --> 0:14:33.960 to give each U.S. citizen adult $ 5, 000 if Republicans maintain 0:14:34.020 --> 0:14:38.090 control of Congress. And this past month, the White House 0:14:38.130 --> 0:14:44.440 has used taxpayer dollars to broadcast pro-Trump campaign ads. About 0:14:44.480 --> 0:14:47.820 a week and a half ago, there was widely publicized 0:14:47.880 --> 0:14:51.810 photos of National Guard troops standing in front of ballot 0:14:51.850 --> 0:14:57.610 drop boxes in Washington, D.C. Troops who National Guard officials 0:14:57.650 --> 0:15:01.670 say were not stationed there to guard the ballot boxes. 0:15:02.550 --> 0:15:06.570 But voter intimidation through the presence of military, federal agents, 0:15:06.670 --> 0:15:10.190 or police officers at polling sites is a huge concern 0:15:10.350 --> 0:15:14.790 going into these midterms, especially as ICE is detaining both 0:15:14.850 --> 0:15:19.370 immigrants and U.S. citizens suspected of being immigrants at levels 0:15:19.550 --> 0:15:24.570 never before seen. Earlier this year, the Michigan Republican Senate 0:15:24.590 --> 0:15:28.910 candidate Mike Rogers, who's going up against Abdul El-Sayed, told 0:15:29.090 --> 0:15:33.640 Kalamazoo County Republicans that he plans to recruit cops as, quote, 0:15:33.780 --> 0:15:38.440 poll watchers, according to leaked audio from a GOP meeting. 0:15:39.030 --> 0:15:43.020 also saying, quote, go ahead, try to intimidate them. 0:15:43.380 --> 0:15:46.700 So we called the RNC early and said, hey, you know, 0:15:47.280 --> 0:15:48.940 if we're going to do this again, I don't want 0:15:48.960 --> 0:15:50.920 to wake up at 3, you know, go to bed 0:15:50.940 --> 0:15:52.210 at 2 a.m. 0:15:52.540 --> 0:15:54.229 A winter and wake up at 4 a.m. 0:15:54.290 --> 0:15:56.630 A loose, I'm kind of done with that. 0:15:57.390 --> 0:15:59.070 And so in a van full of. 0:15:59.050 --> 0:16:01.310 Ballots that shows up in the middle of the year, 0:16:01.390 --> 0:16:06.580 which I wish didn't happen. So what we got them 0:16:06.600 --> 0:16:09.260 to commit to was they're going to have a healthy 0:16:09.660 --> 0:16:12.560 voter integrity program. The fact that they've already hired a 0:16:12.680 --> 0:16:15.630 deputy told you how far ahead of the game. 0:16:16.270 --> 0:16:18.490 We weren't that far before. And I've been telling them, 0:16:18.530 --> 0:16:18.930 you know what? 0:16:19.130 --> 0:16:24.090 Let's put retired or off-duty police officers as our poll 0:16:24.130 --> 0:16:32.180 walkers in Detroit. Because go ahead, try to intimidate them. Please. 0:16:33.260 --> 0:16:35.160 What's that? We're trying to find them. 0:16:35.180 --> 0:16:36.979 I mean, they wouldn't be able to wear their uniforms, 0:16:37.020 --> 0:16:39.120 but they would, you know, all you got to do 0:16:39.160 --> 0:16:40.700 is open your jacket and you see the badge on 0:16:40.720 --> 0:16:41.380 the belt, right? 0:16:42.140 --> 0:16:45.490 Also notable in this leaked audio is how Mike Rogers 0:16:45.540 --> 0:16:49.710 insinuates his last Senate race, which he lost to Alyssa Slotkin, 0:16:50.470 --> 0:16:54.490 was stolen from him because of a van full of ballots. 0:16:55.450 --> 0:16:59.370 It seems almost inevitable that if Republicans lose these midterms, 0:16:59.990 --> 0:17:02.930 They will invent all sorts of election conspiracy theories and 0:17:03.120 --> 0:17:08.060 spread false claims of mass voter fraud to both contest 0:17:08.119 --> 0:17:12.340 these results and limit free and fair elections in the future. 0:17:13.400 --> 0:17:16.489 But this episode, I want to do an overview of 0:17:16.630 --> 0:17:20.110 the way the Trump administration is currently trying to make 0:17:20.150 --> 0:17:22.730 it harder to vote, what they have been able to 0:17:22.770 --> 0:17:25.970 do before the midterms, and finally, what they could do 0:17:26.190 --> 0:17:30.810 in the future. This is It Could Happen Here. I'm 0:17:30.910 --> 0:17:36.160 your host, Garrison Davis. The big thing Trump wants, but 0:17:36.200 --> 0:17:40.400 he'll probably never get, is the passage of the Save 0:17:40.600 --> 0:17:45.180 America Act, a bill that would require voters provide photo 0:17:45.320 --> 0:17:49.080 ID and proof of citizenship to register to vote in 0:17:49.140 --> 0:17:52.840 federal elections, not just a driver's license or even a 0:17:52.940 --> 0:17:57.830 real ID card. This would disenfranchise over 20 million Americans. 0:17:58.380 --> 0:18:02.580 who do not have citizenship documents like passports or birth 0:18:02.600 --> 0:18:08.190 certificates readily available. Trump's SAVE Act would also mandate regular 0:18:08.430 --> 0:18:13.189 voter roll purges and aims to heavily restrict mail-in or 0:18:13.390 --> 0:18:17.900 absentee voting. To quote the White House, quote, no mail-in 0:18:17.940 --> 0:18:24.240 ballots except for illness, disability, military, or travel. Much of 0:18:24.480 --> 0:18:29.179 Trump's election ire has been directed at absentee or mail-in voting, 0:18:30.000 --> 0:18:34.179 despite this being the very method by which Trump himself 0:18:34.440 --> 0:18:37.640 casts his ballot. I'm not going to focus on what 0:18:37.740 --> 0:18:41.820 passing the Save America Act specifically would mean for U.S. elections, 0:18:42.640 --> 0:18:45.200 because it's just not very likely that this bill will 0:18:45.520 --> 0:18:49.960 ever pass the Senate. But as Trump grew frustrated at 0:18:50.440 --> 0:18:54.480 the Save Act being indefinitely stalled, he turned to other 0:18:54.560 --> 0:19:00.609 means for similar ends. On March 31st, 2026, President Trump 0:19:00.650 --> 0:19:08.250 signed Executive Order 14399, or Ensuring Citizenship Verification and Integrity 0:19:08.490 --> 0:19:13.290 in Federal Elections. This order was a test of executive 0:19:13.310 --> 0:19:18.430 power by attempting to institute federal policies similar to provisions 0:19:18.530 --> 0:19:24.609 within the SAVE Act, but through bypassing Congress entirely. In particular, 0:19:24.930 --> 0:19:29.300 the order focused on two things, having DHS create, quote, 0:19:29.660 --> 0:19:35.120 state citizenship lists, a list of individuals confirmed to be U.S. 0:19:35.180 --> 0:19:37.619 citizens who will be above the age of 18 at 0:19:37.660 --> 0:19:40.400 the time of an upcoming federal election and who maintain 0:19:40.460 --> 0:19:45.490 residence in the subject state. And the order also directed 0:19:45.950 --> 0:19:49.830 the United States Postal Service to, quote, initiate a proposed 0:19:49.850 --> 0:19:52.700 reform tracking, and a new requirement that outbound absentee ballots 0:19:52.720 --> 0:20:09.199 feature a unique barcode to facilitate tracking. and a provision 0:20:09.240 --> 0:20:13.350 specifying that the USPS would not transmit any mail-in or 0:20:13.510 --> 0:20:17.250 absentee ballots for any individual who does not appear on 0:20:17.350 --> 0:20:24.060 a federal state-by-state list of pre-verified voters. To create this list, 0:20:24.430 --> 0:20:26.840 which may or may not be the same as the 0:20:27.480 --> 0:20:30.980 state citizenship list, the order keeps this kind of vague, 0:20:31.740 --> 0:20:35.040 but to create this list, the Secretary of Homeland Security, 0:20:35.140 --> 0:20:38.950 the Commissioner of the Social Security Administration, and the Postmaster 0:20:39.030 --> 0:20:43.510 General would coordinate to implement this executive order. According to 0:20:43.550 --> 0:20:47.650 the order, states would be able to, quote, suggest modifications 0:20:48.150 --> 0:20:54.240 to the Postal Service's state-specific mail-in and absentee participation list. 0:20:55.000 --> 0:20:59.260 So that all sounds bad, and a group of 23 0:20:59.260 --> 0:21:02.959 states and the District of Columbia sued, alleging the executive 0:21:03.000 --> 0:21:06.980 order was unconstitutional and and violated separation of powers by 0:21:07.040 --> 0:21:11.480 infringing on the state's authority to administer elections. In June, 0:21:11.619 --> 0:21:15.430 a district court in Massachusetts agreed and blocked the order. 0:21:16.010 --> 0:21:19.770 The Trump administration appealed to the Supreme Court, and in August, 0:21:19.950 --> 0:21:23.540 the court issued an order on the shadow docket, with 0:21:23.600 --> 0:21:28.900 the conservative majority ruling 6-3, that the coalition of states 0:21:29.160 --> 0:21:32.790 and the district court lacked the legal authority to block 0:21:32.830 --> 0:21:36.729 the order because no harm had yet come from the 0:21:36.790 --> 0:21:41.710 executive order. So essentially, the Supreme Court lifted the lower 0:21:41.770 --> 0:21:45.410 court's injunction, allowing Trump's executive order to go into effect, 0:21:46.150 --> 0:21:48.230 because they thought it was just too soon for states 0:21:48.270 --> 0:21:52.149 to file a challenge because the order hadn't yet gone 0:21:52.369 --> 0:21:55.730 into effect, and so the plaintiffs hadn't yet to suffer 0:21:55.930 --> 0:22:01.070 any injury. This was totally crazy and like totally defeats 0:22:01.630 --> 0:22:05.470 the entire point of the shadow docket. The whole point 0:22:05.490 --> 0:22:09.609 of the shadow docket or the emergency interim docket is 0:22:09.650 --> 0:22:13.970 that there's potential of serious irreparable harm if the court 0:22:14.070 --> 0:22:18.830 does not intervene. But in this ruling, the conservative majority 0:22:18.950 --> 0:22:23.690 wrote that the state's supposed concrete injury was only a quote, 0:22:24.170 --> 0:22:30.159 unduly long chain of inferences. So this ruling in August 0:22:30.680 --> 0:22:33.460 gave the Trump administration the green light to have DHS 0:22:33.560 --> 0:22:38.830 create and send state citizenship lists to each state 60 0:22:38.830 --> 0:22:43.189 days ahead of the upcoming federal elections, cataloging each person 0:22:43.230 --> 0:22:47.590 in every state who DHS believes is eligible to vote. Now, 0:22:47.750 --> 0:22:52.109 the Supreme Court wrote, quote, states are not required to 0:22:52.250 --> 0:22:57.280 use the lists, but this executive order also requires the 0:22:57.380 --> 0:23:01.720 Attorney General to, quote, prioritize the investigation and, as appropriate, 0:23:02.020 --> 0:23:06.000 the prosecution of state and local officials or any others 0:23:06.780 --> 0:23:12.060 who issue federal ballots to ineligible voters. So Trump is 0:23:12.180 --> 0:23:17.890 effectively compelling states to follow these DHS lists or else 0:23:18.030 --> 0:23:22.750 they will face prosecution. In their ruling, the conservative majority 0:23:22.810 --> 0:23:26.310 wrote that The lower court concluded states did suffer a 0:23:26.350 --> 0:23:30.699 present injury because the order required them to, quote, begin 0:23:30.800 --> 0:23:34.679 planning now on how to comply with it. But, the 0:23:34.720 --> 0:23:40.020 Supreme Court wrote, states, quote, cannot manufacture standing merely by 0:23:40.220 --> 0:23:45.619 inflicting harm on themselves based on their fears of hypothetical 0:23:46.140 --> 0:23:52.109 future harm that is certainly not impending, unquote. Though, of course, 0:23:52.190 --> 0:23:56.229 the conservative majority found that the government is, quote, likely 0:23:56.270 --> 0:24:00.890 to suffer irreparable harm without a stay. And so the 0:24:00.950 --> 0:24:05.890 stay was granted, lifting the injunction. But there was something 0:24:06.170 --> 0:24:10.870 interesting at the end of this Supreme Court ruling. They wrote, quote, 0:24:11.350 --> 0:24:14.950 the court's disposition on this application does not mean that 0:24:15.280 --> 0:24:18.960 any measure taken by the government to implement the order 0:24:19.390 --> 0:24:24.629 will necessarily be lawful. On that score, time will tell. 0:24:25.290 --> 0:24:28.510 But the order itself does not harm the states, so 0:24:28.570 --> 0:24:31.610 the district court lacked jurisdiction to bar the government from 0:24:31.670 --> 0:24:36.090 trying to implement it. So the Supreme Court at least 0:24:36.560 --> 0:24:44.000 insinuates there that the Trump administration may not necessarily lawfully 0:24:44.160 --> 0:24:48.239 implement this executive order, but in order for states to 0:24:48.320 --> 0:24:52.119 file a challenge, the order has to at least partially 0:24:52.300 --> 0:24:57.280 go into effect. When this ruling was issued, the Postal 0:24:57.320 --> 0:25:01.810 Service had not yet published their final rule implementing parts 0:25:01.869 --> 0:25:05.550 of Trump's executive order. And so the court never addressed 0:25:05.570 --> 0:25:08.929 the part of the executive order requiring the Postal Service 0:25:08.970 --> 0:25:14.480 to review the eligibility of voters before transmitting their absentee ballots. 0:25:15.420 --> 0:25:20.200 And again, following this idea that the state's lawsuit was premature, 0:25:21.020 --> 0:25:24.320 the conservative majority wrote in the order, quote, if the 0:25:24.359 --> 0:25:28.960 Postal Service's final rule harms the states, they may challenge 0:25:29.040 --> 0:25:33.420 that rule. And literally two days after the Supreme Court 0:25:33.480 --> 0:25:38.060 issued this order, the USPS published their new final rule 0:25:38.480 --> 0:25:42.179 amending the mailing standards regarding the transmission of mail-in or 0:25:42.330 --> 0:25:47.760 absentee ballots for federal elections. Quote, The final rule introduces 0:25:47.900 --> 0:25:51.380 new mail piece preparation requirements and data reporting standards for 0:25:51.460 --> 0:25:55.609 federal ballot mail that must be satisfied prior to presenting 0:25:55.790 --> 0:26:01.430 outbound federal ballot mail for acceptance into the mail stream, unquote. 0:26:02.250 --> 0:26:05.050 As outlined in Trump's executive order, the Postal Service's final 0:26:05.090 --> 0:26:09.729 rule would require states use new standardized mail-in ballot envelope 0:26:09.750 --> 0:26:14.399 designs to be compatible with automated processing, display a consistent 0:26:14.640 --> 0:26:20.040 election mail logo, and a unique intelligent mail barcode. But 0:26:20.280 --> 0:26:25.350 the rule also introduced a new digital quote federal ballot 0:26:25.420 --> 0:26:30.170 mail portal that state and local election officials would have 0:26:30.210 --> 0:26:34.429 to use to administer absentee ballots. Not only would this 0:26:34.530 --> 0:26:37.890 portal be how state officials certified the design of their 0:26:37.950 --> 0:26:42.210 standardized envelopes, but election officials would also have to upload 0:26:42.280 --> 0:26:46.080 the name and address of each absentee or mail-in voter 0:26:46.800 --> 0:26:50.850 as found on the outbound federal ballot mail envelope, the 0:26:51.050 --> 0:26:55.010 issuing state, and the intelligent mail barcode. This data would 0:26:55.050 --> 0:26:58.050 have to be submitted to the portal, quote, prior to 0:26:58.090 --> 0:27:03.860 presenting in outbound federal ballot mailing for acceptance. Rather than 0:27:03.890 --> 0:27:08.300 the 60-day deadline in Trump's executive order, the Postal Service's 0:27:08.380 --> 0:27:12.840 final rule recommends states upload this voter data into the 0:27:12.880 --> 0:27:17.520 portal at least 30 days before the election. This, quote, 0:27:17.940 --> 0:27:25.060 flexible 30-day timeline accommodates variations in state law, unquote. But importantly, 0:27:25.540 --> 0:27:29.080 this voter data must be submitted to this new digital 0:27:29.180 --> 0:27:32.609 portal before the Postal Service will accept. 0:27:32.510 --> 0:27:33.790 Any mail-in ballots. 0:27:34.270 --> 0:27:38.670 Quote, there should be minimal to no delay between a 0:27:38.810 --> 0:27:42.449 portal upload and a mailer's ability to present the mailing 0:27:42.570 --> 0:27:47.410 for acceptance. the Postal Service will generally not accept outbound 0:27:47.550 --> 0:27:52.389 federal ballot mailings unless compliance with the new rules standards 0:27:52.609 --> 0:27:57.810 has been verified, unquote. This new final rule did state 0:27:57.990 --> 0:28:00.970 that the Postal Service would not play, quote, any role 0:28:01.410 --> 0:28:06.600 in determining voter eligibility, maintaining voter rules, or counting ballots. 0:28:07.460 --> 0:28:12.619 But the rule also states, quote, portal data will also 0:28:12.720 --> 0:28:18.950 be available, for verification purposes on a nationwide basis, unquote. 0:28:20.070 --> 0:28:24.760 If some of that just sounds confusing, that's because it is. 0:28:25.710 --> 0:28:28.920 The implementation of Trump's executive order in this final rule 0:28:29.820 --> 0:28:33.879 was not very clear at all, did not follow proper protocol, 0:28:34.440 --> 0:28:38.480 and resulted in whistleblowers from USPS coming forward with concerns 0:28:39.040 --> 0:28:44.270 about the implementation of this final rule. And though the 0:28:44.310 --> 0:28:48.590 Supreme Court stayed one injunction blocking the implementation of the 0:28:48.630 --> 0:28:54.280 executive order, a separate temporary restraining order prevented certain sections 0:28:54.520 --> 0:28:58.260 of this final rule from immediately going into effect. The 0:28:58.680 --> 0:29:01.400 published final rule says that the Postal Service is ready 0:29:01.440 --> 0:29:05.490 to immediately implement these new standards in preparation for the 0:29:05.490 --> 0:29:08.330 2026 election as soon as all of the lower court 0:29:08.390 --> 0:29:12.490 injunctions are lifted. But a few days after the rule 0:29:12.510 --> 0:29:16.380 was published, A coalition of 23 states again filed a lawsuit, 0:29:16.740 --> 0:29:20.500 as instructed by the Supreme Court, and the same district 0:29:20.560 --> 0:29:25.300 court judge issued a new preliminary injunction. And then on 0:29:25.340 --> 0:29:30.550 September 13th, a second federal judge also blocked the Postal 0:29:30.570 --> 0:29:36.270 Service's newly adopted final rule. Trump appointee Judge Carl Nichols 0:29:36.810 --> 0:29:39.630 found that the Postal Service lacked the authority to require 0:29:39.710 --> 0:29:43.820 states submit a list of eligible voters to this online 0:29:43.900 --> 0:29:49.520 portal and only transmit ballots to voters verified on the portal. 0:29:50.360 --> 0:29:53.670 Judge Nichols wrote that if the rule was implemented, there 0:29:53.690 --> 0:29:57.570 would be a, quote, increased risk that a significant number 0:29:57.710 --> 0:30:02.850 of otherwise appropriate absentee or mail-in ballots will ultimately not 0:30:02.930 --> 0:30:08.070 be counted in the upcoming elections, unquote. And then just 0:30:08.190 --> 0:30:11.730 a day later, the Supreme Court issued a shadow docket 0:30:11.790 --> 0:30:16.170 ruling denying the Trump administration's request to lift the first 0:30:16.230 --> 0:30:20.100 injunction blocking the implementation of the Postal Service's final rule, 0:30:20.860 --> 0:30:25.040 finding that, quote, the government is unlikely to succeed on 0:30:25.080 --> 0:30:28.460 the merits of its challenge. And this appeared to be 0:30:28.480 --> 0:30:33.830 a 7-2 ruling, with Samuel Alito penning a dissent, which 0:30:33.870 --> 0:30:38.850 was joined by Clarence Thomas. Though Brett Kavanaugh wrote a 0:30:39.270 --> 0:30:44.250 one-paragraph concurring opinion agreeing to let the injunction against the 0:30:44.330 --> 0:30:49.330 rule remain, though he suggested that the Postal Service may 0:30:49.590 --> 0:30:52.530 have the authority to implement the rule in the future, 0:30:53.350 --> 0:30:57.890 just not in the two months prior to an election, stating, quote, 0:30:58.590 --> 0:31:01.430 In my view, based on the briefing the court has 0:31:01.470 --> 0:31:05.390 received at this interim stage, there is at least a 0:31:05.490 --> 0:31:09.230 fair prospect that the final rule falls within the Postal 0:31:09.270 --> 0:31:13.810 Service's statutory authority. But applying the rule in the 2026 0:31:13.810 --> 0:31:17.709 elections would be arbitrary and capricious in violation of the 0:31:17.790 --> 0:31:21.450 Administrative Procedure Act because state and local officials do not 0:31:21.530 --> 0:31:25.610 have sufficient time to reasonably implement the rule before the elections. 0:31:26.270 --> 0:31:29.330 For that reason, I concur in the denial of the 0:31:29.490 --> 0:31:35.080 application for stay, unquote. We'll come back to the future 0:31:35.210 --> 0:31:37.780 implications of this ruling at the end of the episode. 0:31:38.400 --> 0:31:54.380 But first, here's some ads. Okay, we are back. Restricting 0:31:54.580 --> 0:31:58.080 mail-in voting and this final rule from the Postal Service 0:31:58.540 --> 0:32:02.060 is only one half of Trump's executive order. The other 0:32:02.160 --> 0:32:07.110 concerns the creation of state citizenship lists to verify voters. 0:32:08.110 --> 0:32:13.090 The federal government does not have a centralized registry of citizens. 0:32:14.110 --> 0:32:19.220 But since last year, DHS has been trying to retrofit 0:32:19.280 --> 0:32:22.740 something called the SAVE system into not to be confused 0:32:22.780 --> 0:32:26.380 with the SAVE Act, though both aim to suppress voters. 0:32:27.420 --> 0:32:31.090 But the DHS has been trying to expand this SAVE 0:32:31.190 --> 0:32:35.850 system so it can be used to verify large batches 0:32:35.990 --> 0:32:39.810 of voters by integrating data from other agencies like the 0:32:39.830 --> 0:32:45.300 State Department and the Social Security Administration. SAVE, in this case, 0:32:45.840 --> 0:32:52.290 stands for Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements. It was created 0:32:52.350 --> 0:32:56.590 in the 80s to verify the citizenship and immigration status 0:32:56.790 --> 0:33:01.790 of people applying for public benefits like Medicaid and food stamps. 0:33:02.770 --> 0:33:07.330 In March of 2025, Trump signed a different executive order 0:33:07.790 --> 0:33:13.010 titled Preserving and Protecting the Integrity of American Elections, which 0:33:13.130 --> 0:33:16.770 instructed DHS to put new systems into place to allow 0:33:16.990 --> 0:33:20.540 state and local authorities to to verify the citizenship status 0:33:20.780 --> 0:33:25.180 of those registered to vote, and directed the Social Security 0:33:25.200 --> 0:33:28.920 Administration to make their records available to DHS for that purpose. 0:33:29.720 --> 0:33:34.790 So DHS began modifying the SAVE system by incorporating confidential 0:33:34.810 --> 0:33:39.050 data from the Social Security Administration and altering the system 0:33:39.230 --> 0:33:43.770 to allow authorities to conduct bulk searches of multiple individuals 0:33:44.030 --> 0:33:49.170 at once. To date, 27 states already use the save 0:33:49.230 --> 0:33:54.230 system to verify voters. And last year, some states began 0:33:54.310 --> 0:34:00.580 testing the newly modified database. After Trump signed this election 0:34:00.620 --> 0:34:05.600 integrity order last year, voting rights organizations sued and a 0:34:05.640 --> 0:34:11.489 district court blocked the order, finding that the overhauled save system, quote, 0:34:12.040 --> 0:34:15.360 trampled on the privacy rights of American citizens in a 0:34:15.400 --> 0:34:19.500 manner that threatens the sacred right to vote. But the 0:34:19.560 --> 0:34:22.840 Trump administration went to the Supreme Court, asking them to 0:34:22.880 --> 0:34:28.120 lift the district court's injunction, alleging that the government faced 0:34:28.540 --> 0:34:31.860 irreparable harm if they weren't allowed to use the save 0:34:31.930 --> 0:34:36.630 system to purge voter rolls. Without a full briefing or 0:34:36.810 --> 0:34:41.589 oral argument, the conservative majority ruled 6-3, granting the stay. 0:34:42.390 --> 0:34:45.189 clearing the way for Trump to implement the new safe 0:34:45.250 --> 0:34:49.890 system and allow DHS to purge voter rolls. I talked 0:34:49.910 --> 0:34:53.440 about this a little bit in an executive disorder episode 0:34:53.680 --> 0:34:57.480 a few weeks ago. In the lawsuit that first prevented 0:34:57.560 --> 0:35:02.160 the government from using this newly modified safe system, the 0:35:02.200 --> 0:35:07.160 plaintiffs alleged that the integration of SSA, Social Security Administration data, 0:35:07.800 --> 0:35:11.529 violates multiple privacy protections. and that the use of the 0:35:11.570 --> 0:35:15.370 data to purge voter rolls risks irreparable harm to voters 0:35:15.910 --> 0:35:20.040 who are mistakenly removed from voter rolls due to inaccurate 0:35:20.560 --> 0:35:25.420 or out-of-date information in the databases that Save is using. 0:35:26.500 --> 0:35:31.840 And this harm is not just hypothetical. When Texas began 0:35:32.280 --> 0:35:36.540 testing out the newly modified Save system last year, it 0:35:36.600 --> 0:35:40.900 had an error rate of over 20%. And part of 0:35:40.920 --> 0:35:44.360 why the SAFE system is so inaccurate, especially now that 0:35:44.410 --> 0:35:49.290 it's pulling from Social Security data, is because Social Security 0:35:49.310 --> 0:35:54.690 Administration data does not necessarily reflect someone's current immigration or 0:35:54.790 --> 0:35:59.950 citizenship status. For example, I was given an SSN as 0:35:59.989 --> 0:36:03.879 a teenager after my family immigrated to the U.S., but 0:36:03.940 --> 0:36:07.680 because I later acquired U.S. citizenship through one of my parents, 0:36:08.460 --> 0:36:12.020 my Social Security number was does not correspond to my 0:36:12.140 --> 0:36:16.340 citizenship status, and I often have to verify my citizenship 0:36:16.360 --> 0:36:19.460 status with a passport. It's also important to keep in 0:36:19.480 --> 0:36:22.920 mind that Social Security Administration data is not just Social 0:36:22.960 --> 0:36:27.750 Security numbers, but also, quote, names, dates and places of birth, 0:36:28.250 --> 0:36:34.549 citizenship indicators, death records, and information obtained while processing requests 0:36:34.850 --> 0:36:39.440 for Social Security numbers, per the Supreme Court. So if 0:36:39.540 --> 0:36:44.800 the save system flags someone or a search comes up inconclusive, 0:36:45.460 --> 0:36:49.450 voters could be required to take additional affirmative steps to 0:36:49.590 --> 0:36:54.610 prove their citizenship or naturalization, possibly within a very short 0:36:54.670 --> 0:36:59.310 window or risk being removed from the voter rules and 0:36:59.750 --> 0:37:03.540 unable to exercise their right to vote. In the short, 0:37:03.860 --> 0:37:08.840 unsigned opinion, the conservative majority writes, quote, If the modified 0:37:08.910 --> 0:37:12.200 SAVE program is unable to confirm that an individual is 0:37:12.239 --> 0:37:15.799 a citizen, the agency is required to contact the individual 0:37:16.180 --> 0:37:19.440 and request that he provide proof of citizenship to register 0:37:19.840 --> 0:37:25.320 or remain registered to vote, unquote. In her dissent, Justice 0:37:25.390 --> 0:37:29.469 Jackson echoed the concerns of the plaintiffs that the, quote, 0:37:29.950 --> 0:37:36.500 staleness of Social Security Administration citizenship records risked disenfranchising recently 0:37:36.580 --> 0:37:41.089 naturalized US citizens. And again, this is not some sort 0:37:41.140 --> 0:37:47.589 of hypothetical harm. According to a ProPublica report from last February, quote, 0:37:48.070 --> 0:37:51.469 DHS has had to correct information provided to at least 0:37:51.670 --> 0:37:58.800 five states after Save misidentified some voters as non-citizens. And 0:37:58.989 --> 0:38:03.920 per Jackson's dissent, in Texas, one woman had her voter 0:38:03.940 --> 0:38:08.890 registration revoked completely without her knowledge, and two more had 0:38:08.930 --> 0:38:13.370 to provide proof of citizenship to maintain registered voter status. 0:38:14.210 --> 0:38:15.629 I really don't want to gloss over the fact that 0:38:15.890 --> 0:38:21.300 already in Texas, a U.S. citizen was removed from voter 0:38:21.320 --> 0:38:26.520 registration because of the save system without her knowledge. She 0:38:26.580 --> 0:38:30.080 did not know that this happened. Imagine you walk up 0:38:30.160 --> 0:38:33.700 to the polling site ready to vote only to learn 0:38:33.719 --> 0:38:38.130 that that you've been removed from the voter rolls because 0:38:38.170 --> 0:38:43.810 of DHS's janky verification system. That is actual irreparable harm, 0:38:44.430 --> 0:38:47.090 but the majority opinion of the Supreme Court just didn't 0:38:47.150 --> 0:38:52.860 consider this harm posed to lawful voters, but rather focused 0:38:52.940 --> 0:38:56.939 on the harms the government could purportedly suffer if they 0:38:57.040 --> 0:39:01.540 aren't allowed to use the revamped save system. The bulk 0:39:01.640 --> 0:39:05.930 of the majority opinion focuses on defending the legality of 0:39:06.010 --> 0:39:11.620 DHS using what is otherwise protected confidential data from the 0:39:11.680 --> 0:39:16.060 Social Security Administration. In contrast with the District Court, the 0:39:16.100 --> 0:39:19.240 Supreme Court agreed with the government's argument that a provision 0:39:19.360 --> 0:39:24.770 of the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act, Section 1373, 0:39:24.750 --> 0:39:33.920 actually already granted DHS permission to access confidential SSA data. Thus, 0:39:34.060 --> 0:39:37.759 the use of that data in the SAVE program does 0:39:37.860 --> 0:39:42.790 not violate the privacy protections within the Social Security Act 0:39:43.010 --> 0:39:46.430 or the Privacy Act. And I apologize for this getting 0:39:46.469 --> 0:39:51.299 a little jargony, but I cannot... emphasize the magnitude of 0:39:51.360 --> 0:39:57.970 this enough, Section 1373 has never before been invoked this way, 0:39:58.550 --> 0:40:03.410 and poses massive threats to privacy. I will lightly paraphrase 0:40:03.489 --> 0:40:11.140 for clarity 8 U.S.C. 1373, quote, notwithstanding any other provision 0:40:11.280 --> 0:40:16.180 of federal, state, or local law no person, agency, government entity, 0:40:16.320 --> 0:40:19.410 or official may prohibit or in any way restrict any 0:40:19.469 --> 0:40:23.870 government entity or official from sending or receiving information regarding 0:40:24.010 --> 0:40:28.549 the citizenship or immigration status, lawful or unlawful, of any 0:40:28.610 --> 0:40:34.840 individual to DHS. Now, because of that first bit on, quote, 0:40:35.280 --> 0:40:41.470 notwithstanding other laws, the Supreme Court majority found that Section 1373, quote, 0:40:41.989 --> 0:40:48.250 likely supersedes restrictions on disclosure elsewhere in the code. And thus, 0:40:48.450 --> 0:40:54.279 DHS is authorized to request, receive, and send otherwise confidential 0:40:54.360 --> 0:40:59.180 information from the Social Security Administration. What the majority is 0:40:59.219 --> 0:41:02.940 doing here is they're combining that notwithstanding clause with 1373 0:41:02.940 --> 0:41:08.930 subsection C, which, quote, requires DHS to respond to inquiries 0:41:09.190 --> 0:41:13.870 from state and local agencies seeking to verify or ascertain 0:41:14.230 --> 0:41:19.310 the citizenship or immigration status of any individual. But as written, 0:41:19.730 --> 0:41:23.410 that subsection does not require DHS to respond to requests 0:41:24.030 --> 0:41:28.640 with confidential data from other agencies. It doesn't entitle them 0:41:29.080 --> 0:41:34.960 to otherwise protected data. In her dissent, Jackson summarizes what 0:41:35.219 --> 0:41:41.150 the majority's opinion here is. Quote, as the majority sees things, 0:41:41.450 --> 0:41:46.630 Congress's prohibiting interference with the disclosure of information regarding citizenship 0:41:46.650 --> 0:41:52.820 status to DHS necessarily authorizes DHS to request and receive 0:41:52.860 --> 0:41:58.280 that information from the SSA regardless of whether some other 0:41:58.360 --> 0:42:05.259 law prohibits disclosure. the majority thus treats Section 1373 as 0:42:05.320 --> 0:42:09.920 essentially overriding the limits that privacy laws impose on the 0:42:09.980 --> 0:42:16.290 sharing of citizenship information with DHS, unquote. Now, Jackson calls 0:42:16.510 --> 0:42:21.290 the majority's interpretation, quote, implausible, and accuses them of, quote, 0:42:21.450 --> 0:42:26.470 misreading the statutory text in a few important ways. Mainly, 0:42:26.950 --> 0:42:31.879 that these provisions don't empower citizens government agencies to take 0:42:32.120 --> 0:42:38.020 any affirmative action to overrule privacy protections, but rather they 0:42:38.120 --> 0:42:43.279 bar government entities, officials, persons, or agencies from unlawfully prohibiting 0:42:43.480 --> 0:42:49.549 or restricting the exchange of citizenship information with DHS. To 0:42:49.630 --> 0:42:54.910 quote Jackson, quote, these provisions do not affirmatively grant any power, 0:42:55.610 --> 0:43:00.870 nor do they override any explicit statutory limits on information sharing. Rather, 0:43:01.150 --> 0:43:05.710 both provisions bar government entities or employees from interfering with 0:43:05.950 --> 0:43:12.270 otherwise lawful exchanges of citizenship information, notwithstanding that such interference 0:43:12.350 --> 0:43:15.709 may be permitted under some other law. When a law 0:43:15.790 --> 0:43:21.170 imposes an express restriction on disclosure, it is that law, 0:43:21.570 --> 0:43:26.770 not an entity, official, person, or agency, that is doing the, quote, 0:43:26.890 --> 0:43:32.069 prohibiting or, quote, restricting. In the majority's opinion, they have 0:43:32.090 --> 0:43:37.549 a little footnote responding to Jackson's claim here, quote, the 0:43:37.590 --> 0:43:41.310 distinction the dissent draws between laws and those tasked with 0:43:41.370 --> 0:43:47.469 enforcing them is illusory. Prohibitions necessarily include invoking a law 0:43:47.840 --> 0:43:53.060 to deny a request for or transfer of such information, unquote. 0:43:54.260 --> 0:43:59.720 But this snarky little remark ignores that Other provisions in 0:43:59.910 --> 0:44:03.979 the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act place, quote, 0:44:04.260 --> 0:44:10.560 strict limits on what information SSA can disclose. And Jackson 0:44:10.800 --> 0:44:16.040 notes that those limits would be pointless if Section 1373 0:44:16.040 --> 0:44:20.610 supersedes any and all privacy protections, as claimed by the 0:44:20.640 --> 0:44:25.180 government and the Supreme Court majority. To quote Jackson, there 0:44:25.239 --> 0:44:28.880 is no reason to believe that Congress meant to repeal 0:44:28.940 --> 0:44:34.529 laws that would otherwise prohibit federal agencies from disclosing citizenship information. 0:44:35.230 --> 0:44:39.969 Nothing in 1373 authorizes the modified save system or overrides 0:44:40.030 --> 0:44:44.160 the provisions of the Social Security Act and the Privacy Act, unquote. 0:44:44.920 --> 0:44:50.680 To bolster her argument, Jackson also notes that Bill Clinton's 0:44:50.780 --> 0:44:55.270 Office of Legal Counsel said, shared this same interpretation of 0:44:55.330 --> 0:45:00.610 Section 1373 all the way back in 1999, writing that 0:45:00.660 --> 0:45:04.960 the section does, quote, not clearly invest government officials or 0:45:05.020 --> 0:45:09.879 entities with the affirmative authority to disclose information in circumstances 0:45:09.940 --> 0:45:14.339 where they would otherwise be prohibited from doing so by 0:45:14.360 --> 0:45:19.130 a federal statute, unquote. And I go over all of 0:45:19.170 --> 0:45:24.969 these details not to be Confusing or annoying, but because again, 0:45:25.030 --> 0:45:28.790 this is a shadow docket ruling, meaning that this case 0:45:29.090 --> 0:45:33.029 will likely be heard again by the Supreme Court, and 0:45:33.130 --> 0:45:47.180 some of these justifications may matter in the future. So 0:45:47.200 --> 0:45:51.590 as bad and frankly bullshit as this ruling is, According 0:45:51.610 --> 0:45:57.259 to Jackson, it will, quote, likely have minimal short-term impact. 0:45:58.180 --> 0:46:02.899 And that's because the National Voter Registration Act prohibits states from, quote, 0:46:03.360 --> 0:46:07.780 systematically removing the names of ineligible voters from their rolls 0:46:08.020 --> 0:46:12.640 in the 90 days prior to any primary or general election. 0:46:13.460 --> 0:46:16.350 But this doesn't mean that it will have no impact 0:46:16.410 --> 0:46:19.350 on the midterms, because the government is still allowed to 0:46:19.530 --> 0:46:25.260 use the new save system, to conduct, quote, individualized inquiries 0:46:25.920 --> 0:46:30.640 per the majority. Jackson writes that states will, quote, at 0:46:30.719 --> 0:46:37.049 most conduct individualized voter rule maintenance using the modified save 0:46:37.120 --> 0:46:40.790 system prior to the midterms. But at the end of 0:46:40.830 --> 0:46:44.730 her dissent, she stresses, quote, the harm caused by burdening 0:46:44.850 --> 0:46:50.870 or disenfranchising even a few lawful voters' outweighs the non-existent 0:46:50.930 --> 0:46:54.219 harm that the government experiences when it is prevented from 0:46:54.340 --> 0:46:58.380 taking an action that it likely lacks the authority to take. 0:46:59.540 --> 0:47:05.340 For 2026, voter intimidation remains the biggest threat to elections. 0:47:06.050 --> 0:47:10.989 Whether that's coming from Mike Rogers' personal goons or some 0:47:11.230 --> 0:47:16.180 federal force near polling sites, be that National Guard or ICE. 0:47:17.219 --> 0:47:22.359 which DHS officials have said won't patrol the polls, but 0:47:22.540 --> 0:47:26.720 told the Associated Press, quote, if an active public safety 0:47:26.760 --> 0:47:30.920 threat endangered a polling location, they may be arrested as 0:47:30.980 --> 0:47:36.330 a result of that targeted enforcement action. With DHS also 0:47:36.410 --> 0:47:40.730 saying they are, quote, laser focused on prosecuting and removing 0:47:40.810 --> 0:47:44.690 aliens who vote and preventing the dilution of the votes 0:47:44.950 --> 0:47:45.670 of U.S. 0:47:45.850 --> 0:47:46.330 Citizens. 0:47:47.330 --> 0:47:51.589 Beyond voter intimidation, the Trump administration and Republicans may also 0:47:51.650 --> 0:47:56.940 attempt to delegitimize election results based on allegations of fraud. 0:47:57.580 --> 0:48:00.640 And this is yet another way the new save system 0:48:00.860 --> 0:48:04.620 could be of some use. Given its high error rate, 0:48:04.719 --> 0:48:08.270 it's quite simple to inflate the number of votes that 0:48:08.330 --> 0:48:13.219 are under suspicion of being fraudulently cast to if the 0:48:13.239 --> 0:48:17.340 Trump administration gains access to cast ballots or voting machines 0:48:17.820 --> 0:48:21.260 and tries to audit the results. They don't even need 0:48:21.280 --> 0:48:24.810 to prove fraud. They just need to create an air 0:48:24.870 --> 0:48:29.550 of uncertainty to manufacture a political crisis. And the SAVE 0:48:29.610 --> 0:48:34.270 system can provide that uncertainty. But what really concerns me 0:48:34.410 --> 0:48:38.190 is what could happen after the midterms, in the two 0:48:38.230 --> 0:48:42.320 years before the 2028 election. there will be enough time 0:48:42.420 --> 0:48:46.920 for the constitutionality of the Postal Service's final rule, with 0:48:46.940 --> 0:48:50.980 the digital federal ballot mail portal and vague verification requirements, 0:48:51.620 --> 0:48:56.890 to be fully litigated and potentially implemented. Supreme Court Justices 0:48:57.110 --> 0:49:00.330 Alito and Thomas have already made it clear that they 0:49:00.430 --> 0:49:05.109 want the rule implemented, and Kavanaugh seems sympathetic. Without the 0:49:05.290 --> 0:49:09.430 time constraint of an impending election... where the rest of 0:49:09.489 --> 0:49:15.220 the conservative justices stand on questions of constitutionality, delegating election authority, 0:49:15.300 --> 0:49:18.330 and separation of powers as they relate to the Postal 0:49:18.350 --> 0:49:23.900 Service's final rule, is not yet clear. And whenever they decide, 0:49:23.920 --> 0:49:27.140 I do want to echo the opinion of Trump appointee 0:49:27.540 --> 0:49:31.580 Judge Nichols that the USPS final rule poses a quote, 0:49:32.020 --> 0:49:36.740 increased risk that a significant number of otherwise appropriate absentee 0:49:36.820 --> 0:49:41.089 or mail-in ballots will will ultimately not be counted. If 0:49:41.170 --> 0:49:46.430 the Republicans lose the midterms, which seems likely, Trump's general 0:49:46.530 --> 0:49:51.030 power may be more limited. But that may also result 0:49:51.150 --> 0:49:55.550 in his efforts being tailored to a few select issues 0:49:56.070 --> 0:50:00.350 that he can direct his full executive power towards. And 0:50:00.650 --> 0:50:04.669 the election issue has been a quite personal issue for 0:50:04.770 --> 0:50:08.160 President Trump. I can't see him doing anything other than 0:50:08.320 --> 0:50:12.900 doubling down on implementing the full extent of these executive orders, 0:50:13.680 --> 0:50:17.750 including the, quote, state citizenship lists. But in terms of 0:50:17.790 --> 0:50:22.250 something that can immediately happen right after the midterms, literally 0:50:22.310 --> 0:50:26.390 the day after the election, states can start using DHS's 0:50:26.590 --> 0:50:31.620 save system to purge voter rolls en masse by, quote unquote, 0:50:31.700 --> 0:50:36.859 verifying large batches of voters. The only thing preventing that 0:50:36.900 --> 0:50:40.600 right now is the 90-day prohibition on the quote-unquote systemic 0:50:40.660 --> 0:50:46.230 removal before an election. On the question of save's legality, 0:50:46.910 --> 0:50:50.710 the Supreme Court's conservative majority wrote that the challengers are 0:50:51.170 --> 0:50:54.810 unlikely to prevail on the merits of their claims, even 0:50:54.830 --> 0:50:58.030 though Jackson points out in her dissent that the majority 0:50:58.070 --> 0:51:03.360 opinion breaks from previous interpretations of federal law and plainly 0:51:03.520 --> 0:51:08.170 misreads the statutory text. reversing their decision may require an 0:51:09.130 --> 0:51:14.630 entirely new Supreme Court. Retrofitting the save system to conduct 0:51:14.750 --> 0:51:20.270 bulk searches of potentially ineligible voters is one part of 0:51:20.330 --> 0:51:25.850 a much larger strategy. Since 2025, the Trump administration has 0:51:25.890 --> 0:51:29.160 tried to gain access to states' voter rolls, with the 0:51:29.180 --> 0:51:33.460 DOJ suing over 30 states for not complying with federal requests. 0:51:34.540 --> 0:51:38.900 over a dozen states, mostly Republican-controlled states, have complied and 0:51:39.020 --> 0:51:42.900 handed over their voter registration lists. For states that have 0:51:42.940 --> 0:51:46.239 not complied, the Trump administration has employed multiple tactics to 0:51:46.300 --> 0:51:50.089 try to gain access to their voting records, including by 0:51:50.350 --> 0:51:55.650 just seizing them physically, like in Georgia. We don't know 0:51:55.690 --> 0:51:59.990 if this was done with Save specifically, but this past summer, 0:52:00.250 --> 0:52:03.620 DHS notified the state of Nevada that they had almost 0:52:03.620 --> 0:52:10.400 16,000 non-citizens on their voter rolls. Then DHS said that 0:52:10.420 --> 0:52:15.470 they were able to confirm at least 185 individual cases 0:52:15.550 --> 0:52:19.930 of non-citizens registered to vote. But when state election officials 0:52:20.090 --> 0:52:22.850 looked into these cases, they found that every one of 0:52:22.890 --> 0:52:26.600 those 185 voters was actually a U.S. 0:52:26.640 --> 0:52:27.100 Citizen. 0:52:28.120 --> 0:52:34.780 Meanwhile, in Texas... save falsely flagged over 500 voters as non-citizens. 0:52:35.800 --> 0:52:41.040 Simply put, having DHS try to determine the eligibility of U.S. 0:52:41.680 --> 0:52:45.610 citizen voters doesn't seem like a good idea, and it 0:52:45.630 --> 0:52:48.830 doesn't seem like they are very good at it. Except, 0:52:48.870 --> 0:52:52.089 of course, this is precisely what DHS is setting out 0:52:52.130 --> 0:52:55.390 to do, remove as many people from the voter rolls 0:52:55.610 --> 0:53:00.070 as possible, whether or not they are actually eligible to vote. 0:53:00.950 --> 0:53:05.530 The new save system would not only disenfranchise eligible voters 0:53:05.690 --> 0:53:10.290 by removing them from voter rolls, potentially even without their knowledge, 0:53:10.410 --> 0:53:14.640 like in Texas, but also in the age of ICE 0:53:14.760 --> 0:53:19.919 mass deportations, The prospect that you as a voter could 0:53:20.000 --> 0:53:25.100 be investigated or scrutinized by DHS based on your name 0:53:25.160 --> 0:53:30.260 being flagged by some database could absolutely dissuade U.S. citizens 0:53:30.380 --> 0:53:35.450 born or naturalized from registering to vote and exercising their 0:53:35.510 --> 0:53:39.469 right to vote, especially if they live with or are 0:53:39.590 --> 0:53:45.609 in proximity to undocumented immigrants. And that fear, that intimidation, 0:53:46.489 --> 0:53:50.270 That is part of the point. If Stephen Miller can't 0:53:50.410 --> 0:53:54.630 strip naturalized citizens of their right to vote, this is 0:53:54.690 --> 0:53:55.609 his compromise. 0:54:07.380 --> 0:54:08.080 Hi, everyone. 0:54:08.260 --> 0:54:14.859 This is future Mick adding some stuff for less future Mick. 0:54:15.450 --> 0:54:18.940 we'll be hearing most of during the podcast. This episode 0:54:18.960 --> 0:54:22.140 took a pretty long while. I'm not sure how long 0:54:22.160 --> 0:54:25.200 it will be in post-production, but for my own recording, 0:54:25.320 --> 0:54:29.160 we talked for almost three hours, which is a lot. Therefore, 0:54:29.300 --> 0:54:32.799 this episode will be cut into multiple pieces. Make sure 0:54:32.840 --> 0:54:36.140 to start at part one. I'm sorry for any awkward 0:54:36.920 --> 0:54:40.879 breaks in the post-production, but it was very hard to 0:54:41.060 --> 0:54:41.479 keep that. 0:54:41.400 --> 0:54:47.710 In mind while we were recording. Hope you enjoy it. Welcome, everyone. 0:54:47.830 --> 0:54:50.510 Welcome to It Could Happen Here, the podcast of things 0:54:50.870 --> 0:54:53.989 falling apart and possibly how to put them back a 0:54:54.260 --> 0:54:54.700 little bit. 0:54:55.320 --> 0:54:56.010 My name is Mick. 0:54:56.820 --> 0:55:00.460 As expected, I'm here with James Stout because James is. 0:55:00.420 --> 0:55:01.399 Always here with me. 0:55:02.000 --> 0:55:04.900 But I'm also very happy to say hello to Molly Conger, 0:55:05.000 --> 0:55:06.560 who's also agreed to join. 0:55:07.239 --> 0:55:10.300 How are you guys doing? I'm great. I'm excited. I'm 0:55:10.340 --> 0:55:13.379 pumped to learn about some weird Nazis. It's me and Molly, 0:55:13.420 --> 0:55:15.360 but it's not an animal. So I guess some people 0:55:15.380 --> 0:55:17.950 are already sad. I like doing podcasts with both of you, 0:55:17.989 --> 0:55:19.029 so it's going to be fun. 0:55:19.969 --> 0:55:22.190 I'm looking forward to whatever horrors we're about to learn. 0:55:23.150 --> 0:55:23.509 Ah, yes. 0:55:24.130 --> 0:55:26.029 I knew once I dove into this, I was like, okay, 0:55:26.050 --> 0:55:29.169 I need to light the Molly signal and make sure 0:55:29.190 --> 0:55:30.669 that I get you to come on as well. 0:55:30.690 --> 0:55:32.950 You're about somebody else's Nazis for a change. 0:55:33.150 --> 0:55:33.910 Yeah, exactly. 0:55:33.930 --> 0:55:37.739 Like European Nazis with whom you're probably much less familiar, 0:55:38.320 --> 0:55:42.700 but probably no less horrifying. So what we'll be talking 0:55:42.739 --> 0:55:46.210 about today is the Save Europe Act. What it is, 0:55:46.510 --> 0:55:49.810 what kind of European mechanisms it tries to use to. 0:55:50.310 --> 0:55:51.590 Push through horrible shit. 0:55:51.930 --> 0:55:52.930 That sounds xenophobic. 0:55:54.070 --> 0:55:57.390 Anytime people are wanting to save a thing, like nine 0:55:57.450 --> 0:55:59.569 times out of ten, we've got to ask who they're 0:55:59.590 --> 0:56:01.730 saving it from. And if it's the presence of people 0:56:01.770 --> 0:56:03.209 who aren't white, that's... Why. 0:56:03.110 --> 0:56:04.270 Do you think it needs to be saved? 0:56:04.370 --> 0:56:04.719 Yeah. 0:56:05.719 --> 0:56:07.960 Are you worried about the dilution of Aryan blood? 0:56:07.980 --> 0:56:12.220 Oh, you're so on point, Molly. 0:56:12.280 --> 0:56:12.980 Oh, God. 0:56:13.000 --> 0:56:14.299 You have no idea. 0:56:15.300 --> 0:56:17.660 We're also going to look a bit at the people 0:56:17.739 --> 0:56:21.480 who are orchestrating this because there are funny instances and 0:56:21.520 --> 0:56:25.719 also horrifying instances. I've tried to make it a bit 0:56:25.760 --> 0:56:28.719 of a mix of the two, but I'll be honest. 0:56:28.980 --> 0:56:32.080 I've put this little project down a few times because 0:56:32.500 --> 0:56:34.779 I just got angry about it. I need to make 0:56:34.820 --> 0:56:38.490 jokes in order to make it palpable. Also, I have, 0:56:39.070 --> 0:56:42.090 against my better judgment, decided to make a Blue Sky account. 0:56:42.330 --> 0:56:45.239 So if anyone wants to reach me or If I 0:56:45.280 --> 0:56:48.759 do stuff incorrectly, you can contact me there. It's at 0:56:49.020 --> 0:56:54.200 two sober possums. Stop harassing James if I'm the one 0:56:54.260 --> 0:56:57.399 you're mad at. Originally, I intended to have a little 0:56:57.480 --> 0:57:01.120 fun opening, but over the course of this research, I 0:57:01.160 --> 0:57:05.279 got upset and angry. After reading an in-depth report from 0:57:05.320 --> 0:57:08.930 the Justice for Prosperity, it became clear that a bunch 0:57:08.969 --> 0:57:12.390 of forthright enthusiasts can be funny when you just look 0:57:12.450 --> 0:57:16.590 at it superficially. But the report suggests that more nefarious 0:57:16.650 --> 0:57:21.010 people are, at the very least, facilitating profoundly racist and 0:57:21.050 --> 0:57:26.250 anti-democratic movements. At worst, it's the rich and powerful deliberately 0:57:26.310 --> 0:57:30.780 pushing Europe towards fascism and emboldening wannabe brown shirts to 0:57:30.800 --> 0:57:32.660 commit more acts of violence for. 0:57:32.680 --> 0:57:34.800 Again? Again, yeah. 0:57:35.840 --> 0:57:38.860 And it gets better because it's for a democratic proposal 0:57:38.900 --> 0:57:43.189 that was doomed from the very start. Like red shirt 0:57:43.250 --> 0:57:47.450 in Star Trek doomed. Like that one teenage couple having 0:57:47.510 --> 0:57:51.510 sex somewhere in a horror film doomed. It's like, I 0:57:51.550 --> 0:57:55.570 can't exaggerate how doomed this was. So let's get going. 0:57:55.770 --> 0:57:57.530 What is the Save Europe Act and who are the 0:57:57.570 --> 0:58:00.650 ones behind it? According to their own website, the Save 0:58:00.710 --> 0:58:03.340 Europe Act is the first ever campaign to launch a 0:58:03.410 --> 0:58:08.260 patriotic European citizens initiative. We demand that the political elite 0:58:08.280 --> 0:58:12.060 halt their replacement migration and secure our borders, and protect 0:58:12.080 --> 0:58:14.920 the ethnocultural identity of European nations. 0:58:16.060 --> 0:58:16.419 Oh dear. 0:58:17.220 --> 0:58:19.700 My eyes are getting wider with every clause of that sentence. 0:58:20.040 --> 0:58:21.760 Yeah, those are some trigger words. 0:58:22.110 --> 0:58:23.710 Like those TikToks of like, you know, when you say 0:58:23.910 --> 0:58:25.470 like a dog's favorite words, you say, you want to 0:58:25.490 --> 0:58:27.550 go to the park? You want to get a treat? 0:58:27.610 --> 0:58:29.750 And the dog gets like progressively more alarmed. 0:58:30.710 --> 0:58:33.130 Yeah, but then in a bad way. Yeah, that's me, 0:58:33.150 --> 0:58:36.300 but negative. Okay, well, it's not getting any better. 0:58:37.110 --> 0:58:39.530 So at first, we're going to dive into the Save 0:58:39.590 --> 0:58:42.130 Europe Act itself, and then we're going to look at 0:58:42.150 --> 0:58:45.030 the European Citizens Initiative. 0:58:45.720 --> 0:58:48.820 So is that like a referendum, like a ballot initiative, 0:58:48.880 --> 0:58:52.180 but for all of Europe? We're sorry, most of the 0:58:52.220 --> 0:58:54.200 audience is American, so I'm going to be the token 0:58:54.280 --> 0:58:56.500 dumb American here. I need you to explain to me 0:58:57.140 --> 0:58:57.560 what's that. 0:58:58.040 --> 0:59:00.520 We'll get there because I've laid it out. 0:59:01.100 --> 0:59:02.660 Because Europe is not a country. 0:59:03.510 --> 0:59:04.110 No, no, no. 0:59:04.140 --> 0:59:06.230 Europe is a state of mind, Molly. 0:59:06.250 --> 0:59:06.630 Right. 0:59:08.180 --> 0:59:12.470 And a band. Oh, really? is it the final countdown oh. 0:59:12.890 --> 0:59:16.080 I've heard that at a sports event yeah i've. 0:59:16.010 --> 0:59:19.660 Heard those words in the long long ago sometime but 0:59:19.680 --> 0:59:23.080 okay to make it a bit more clear for molly. 0:59:22.860 --> 0:59:25.300 Specifically for the americans. 0:59:25.200 --> 0:59:27.700 I'm not american so i can't i can't like banter 0:59:27.740 --> 0:59:31.090 like that It's a legislative request that has to be 0:59:31.130 --> 0:59:34.290 considered by the EU if certain conditions are met. 0:59:34.930 --> 0:59:35.770 In the grander. 0:59:35.470 --> 0:59:38.510 Machine of the EU, a citizens' initiative is a way 0:59:38.550 --> 0:59:42.570 for Europeans to directly influence laws through the collection of 0:59:42.640 --> 0:59:43.700 support and signatures. 0:59:44.280 --> 0:59:46.280 So they've got a big petition going. They've got all 0:59:46.300 --> 0:59:48.060 the races in Europe to sign their petition. 0:59:48.080 --> 0:59:50.860 Yeah, think of it like a petition on steroids or 0:59:50.920 --> 0:59:55.340 a protest that, for a change, cannot simply be ignored 0:59:55.840 --> 0:59:59.460 by the powers that be. The charter itself is barely 0:59:59.500 --> 1:00:02.030 a three-minute read, but I thought it would still be 1:00:02.070 --> 1:00:05.010 too lengthy and dull. So I'll skip the preamble and 1:00:05.030 --> 1:00:07.530 move on to the core claims and demands that they make. 1:00:08.330 --> 1:00:11.070 Should you have the desire or the masochism to want 1:00:11.110 --> 1:00:13.590 to read it yourself, you can find it on their website. 1:00:14.290 --> 1:00:15.970 It will be in the show notes together with all 1:00:16.070 --> 1:00:19.700 the other sources I've had the misfortune of reading. So 1:00:19.740 --> 1:00:21.560 this is part two of the charter. 1:00:21.580 --> 1:00:22.600 I quote. 1:00:23.200 --> 1:00:26.880 Acknowledging further that Article 22 of the Charter of Fundamental 1:00:26.920 --> 1:00:31.760 Rights of the European Union requires the Union to respect cultural, religious, 1:00:31.840 --> 1:00:35.510 and linguistic diversity, which must include the protection of the 1:00:35.550 --> 1:00:40.090 historic cultures and traditions of Europe's nations against erosion through 1:00:40.150 --> 1:00:41.390 demographic replacement. 1:00:41.770 --> 1:00:42.430 Oh, there it is. 1:00:42.710 --> 1:00:46.690 That's very clever. We want to respect the diversity of 1:00:46.750 --> 1:00:49.570 our beautiful, all these different white cultures. 1:00:51.090 --> 1:00:51.490 Exactly. 1:00:52.610 --> 1:00:53.210 That's cute. 1:00:53.390 --> 1:00:56.130 The first time that a fascist has used the word diversity, 1:00:56.250 --> 1:00:57.930 not in a completely bad faith way. 1:00:57.950 --> 1:00:58.790 Right. 1:00:59.470 --> 1:01:02.250 Yeah, that's really cute of them. Just like there's so 1:01:02.270 --> 1:01:04.390 much diversity of all the different whites. 1:01:05.390 --> 1:01:05.810 Yeah, yes. 1:01:06.350 --> 1:01:07.890 We have to protect our cultural heritage. 1:01:07.950 --> 1:01:09.200 Nothing but premium whites. 1:01:09.220 --> 1:01:14.420 So at point three, testing how replacement migration, both legal 1:01:14.500 --> 1:01:18.110 and illegal, over recent decades has violated that right. by 1:01:18.130 --> 1:01:22.530 causing significant damage to the social cohesion, public services, security, 1:01:23.130 --> 1:01:27.110 and ethnic and cultural continuity of the European nations, leading 1:01:27.160 --> 1:01:31.480 to parallel societies, increased crime, and the marginalization of native 1:01:31.520 --> 1:01:36.760 populations in their ancestral homelands. Come on! Anytime you hear 1:01:36.800 --> 1:01:39.680 a fucking European white person using the word native or 1:01:39.720 --> 1:01:42.870 indigenous to describe themselves, just tell them to fuck off. 1:01:43.330 --> 1:01:45.050 Just the most puerile shit. 1:01:45.150 --> 1:01:45.570 Come on. 1:01:46.180 --> 1:01:50.290 I've been reading a lot of 20th century eugenics writing lately, 1:01:50.410 --> 1:01:54.110 early 1900s. And every time they say, you know, he 1:01:54.150 --> 1:01:56.910 was a Native American, I'm like, he was what? They 1:01:56.950 --> 1:01:58.810 mean he was a white person whose family came here 1:01:58.830 --> 1:02:01.330 in the 1700s. He was a Native American. That's not 1:02:01.390 --> 1:02:02.670 how we use that phrase now. 1:02:02.990 --> 1:02:05.970 This is still a giant problem in local journalism in 1:02:06.010 --> 1:02:08.470 the United States. I remember I was writing for Pointer, 1:02:08.510 --> 1:02:12.010 which if people aren't familiar, Pointer is like an institute 1:02:12.030 --> 1:02:15.860 of journalism, I think. It's like a journal about journalism. Meta. 1:02:16.270 --> 1:02:19.490 And I remember two reporters, I was writing about how 1:02:19.530 --> 1:02:22.530 people just can't stop saying that cops overdosed on fentanyl. 1:02:22.550 --> 1:02:25.110 When they didn't, they had a panic attack. This is 1:02:25.130 --> 1:02:28.240 a problem. And it's a problem that it's apparently insurmountable 1:02:28.620 --> 1:02:31.640 for many local newspapers, including the San Diego Union Tribune. 1:02:32.060 --> 1:02:35.640 Both reporters there called themselves San Diego natives. And like 1:02:36.280 --> 1:02:38.980 the Native American Journalists Association style guide suggests that you 1:02:39.000 --> 1:02:42.270 should generally put tribal affiliation afterwards. So I asked them 1:02:42.290 --> 1:02:46.439 and they got very upset. But I genuinely, if you're 1:02:46.460 --> 1:02:48.700 a person who makes a living with words and you're 1:02:49.060 --> 1:02:51.280 just a white person who was born somewhere and you're 1:02:51.380 --> 1:02:55.810 using native, you're showing that you're incapable of using words accurately. 1:02:55.910 --> 1:02:58.090 I think that should be disqualifying in itself if you're 1:02:58.110 --> 1:02:58.510 a journalist. 1:02:58.530 --> 1:02:59.530 You're bad at your job. 1:02:59.630 --> 1:03:01.110 Yeah, I find it really fucking annoying. 1:03:01.550 --> 1:03:03.410 So it's interesting in that clause, right? So they're not 1:03:03.490 --> 1:03:06.890 just upset about illegal immigration, right? They're not just upset 1:03:06.910 --> 1:03:10.300 about refugees and asylum. They're saying legal and illegal. So 1:03:10.360 --> 1:03:13.290 right from the jump, they're saying illegal. This is just 1:03:13.370 --> 1:03:15.450 an ethnic thing. We just want everyone to be white. 1:03:15.730 --> 1:03:18.410 There's not even pretending that's not about everyone being white. 1:03:18.630 --> 1:03:20.030 It gets worse. Oh, good. 1:03:20.350 --> 1:03:20.530 Good. 1:03:20.550 --> 1:03:21.950 But it started very bad. 1:03:22.050 --> 1:03:23.390 It started bad. Yeah. 1:03:24.170 --> 1:03:25.110 They're not even pretending. 1:03:25.210 --> 1:03:25.550 No, no. 1:03:25.570 --> 1:03:28.220 You're starting like already knee deep in shit. And the 1:03:28.240 --> 1:03:30.860 more you wade through like the sewer. 1:03:30.980 --> 1:03:33.240 We started with the Nuremberg laws. 1:03:34.000 --> 1:03:34.320 Yes. 1:03:34.840 --> 1:03:37.680 It's kind of a heated first sentence. 1:03:38.120 --> 1:03:40.320 That was like genuinely one of my first thoughts. 1:03:40.380 --> 1:03:40.560 Like. 1:03:41.350 --> 1:03:45.470 Should shit go incredibly bad in Europe with shit like this, 1:03:45.530 --> 1:03:47.770 then this is something that will be brought up in 1:03:48.660 --> 1:03:49.450 whatever the new. 1:03:49.680 --> 1:03:51.200 In the tribunals. Yeah. 1:03:51.340 --> 1:03:51.740 Oh, yeah. 1:03:52.090 --> 1:03:53.520 Yeah, when they're writing the history book. 1:03:53.720 --> 1:03:54.720 I have that thought often. 1:03:54.740 --> 1:03:54.820 Yeah. 1:03:55.500 --> 1:03:57.500 I have that thought in my fantasies often. 1:03:57.980 --> 1:04:01.340 Molly has a tribunals folder on her computer, which is... 1:04:01.280 --> 1:04:02.820 She's got a whole hard drive now. 1:04:03.520 --> 1:04:05.980 Look, when they come, when they're ready, I have files. 1:04:06.480 --> 1:04:07.040 Just come get me. 1:04:07.520 --> 1:04:10.260 You've got the receipts. Okay. Point four. 1:04:10.890 --> 1:04:13.970 Underlying the urgency of the matter by acknowledging the imminent 1:04:14.010 --> 1:04:17.490 reality that the native peoples of Europe risk becoming minority 1:04:17.530 --> 1:04:21.950 populations in their own homelands if radical changes to the 1:04:22.010 --> 1:04:24.440 asylum and migration system are not made. 1:04:25.060 --> 1:04:29.960 I'm sorry, like this level of just open bitching, like, oh, 1:04:30.020 --> 1:04:32.340 I'm sorry, you believe in great replacement conspiracy theories. Like, 1:04:32.380 --> 1:04:34.040 that's embarrassing for you. That's embarrassing. 1:04:34.570 --> 1:04:38.470 Yeah, and this pathetic concern trolling, like, oh, we the 1:04:38.550 --> 1:04:43.090 indigenous people are being colonized by people seeking fucking asylum. 1:04:43.650 --> 1:04:47.190 Our beautiful, brave Teutonic ancestors are being replaced. 1:04:47.230 --> 1:04:47.690 Grow up! 1:04:48.240 --> 1:04:51.030 Like, I would accept it if they would just refer 1:04:51.070 --> 1:04:54.040 it back to, like, the original Celts before, like, the 1:04:54.080 --> 1:04:56.380 Christendom and the Romans came. 1:04:56.880 --> 1:05:00.310 Like, yeah, sure, yeah, yeah. It's the people from Italy 1:05:00.330 --> 1:05:01.730 that they're really mad about. 1:05:01.970 --> 1:05:07.360 We need to fucking, like, praise Tutatis and Katurix again from, like, 1:05:07.380 --> 1:05:08.959 the old Gallic days. 1:05:09.200 --> 1:05:10.600 You know, I would respect that. 1:05:11.100 --> 1:05:13.860 These probably are the same, like, fucking German neo-Nazis who 1:05:13.880 --> 1:05:15.820 still celebrate, like, Arminius Day. 1:05:16.200 --> 1:05:18.470 These are the same people who would also have, like, 1:05:18.780 --> 1:05:21.870 done Africa Starts at the Pyrenees stuff not so long 1:05:21.910 --> 1:05:26.410 ago and, like, absolutely excluded anyone from Iberia from being, like, 1:05:26.490 --> 1:05:29.610 European or white, like, So, you know, maybe that's the 1:05:29.630 --> 1:05:30.810 diversity they're talking about, maybe. 1:05:31.410 --> 1:05:35.890 I do love that inter-white racism. Like, the really niche stuff, like, 1:05:35.950 --> 1:05:37.630 are Macedonians white? 1:05:38.310 --> 1:05:42.850 Yeah. Yeah, being someone who was a historian of Iberia 1:05:42.870 --> 1:05:47.400 for much of my 20s, it's wild. It's wild shit 1:05:47.420 --> 1:05:50.420 that you will see in, like, old-timey texts and from 1:05:50.480 --> 1:05:52.020 old-timey people at history conferences. 1:05:52.660 --> 1:05:54.620 Oh, I'm talking about stuff I've seen on Stonefront. 1:05:55.080 --> 1:05:58.970 Oh, yeah, that's also... Could be the same people. Probably. 1:05:58.990 --> 1:06:03.270 They'll probably be in contact through a telegram group. 1:06:04.550 --> 1:06:09.030 Sorry, we keep interrupting the document. Yeah, we've ruined it. 1:06:09.200 --> 1:06:09.720 That's fine. 1:06:11.220 --> 1:06:14.540 Point five, determining that migration does not solve the aging 1:06:14.580 --> 1:06:18.960 population crisis, but instead places further strain on European welfare 1:06:19.020 --> 1:06:22.820 systems and worsens the fundamental problem of low birth rates 1:06:22.970 --> 1:06:24.450 among the native population. 1:06:25.390 --> 1:06:27.270 I was hoping we would get to birth rates. 1:06:27.610 --> 1:06:27.910 Good, good. 1:06:27.990 --> 1:06:29.650 I'm surprised it took all the way to number five. 1:06:31.530 --> 1:06:34.070 I mean, are you even a proper racist if you're 1:06:34.110 --> 1:06:36.750 not concerned about the fecundity of ethnic women? 1:06:37.830 --> 1:06:38.390 Probably. 1:06:38.410 --> 1:06:43.360 They're very worried about being outbred. 1:06:43.660 --> 1:06:46.440 Yes, but for some reason, all the women promoting this 1:06:46.540 --> 1:06:50.080 are not having like 20 children within like their first 1:06:50.160 --> 1:06:53.720 five years. So funny how they make exceptions for themselves 1:06:53.800 --> 1:06:56.300 all the time. One thing of note that I found 1:06:56.340 --> 1:06:59.040 is it points to about like the cultural, religious and 1:06:59.080 --> 1:07:04.520 linguistic diversity, which, as I said before, fascists using diversity, 1:07:04.660 --> 1:07:07.840 not entirely in bad faith, but also using it in 1:07:07.860 --> 1:07:08.400 bad faith. 1:07:08.660 --> 1:07:09.080 Right. 1:07:09.180 --> 1:07:12.620 You know, all the different romance languages, but God forbid 1:07:12.640 --> 1:07:14.120 we have too much diversity. 1:07:14.620 --> 1:07:15.600 Yeah, exactly. 1:07:16.040 --> 1:07:19.570 But like that argument is so fucking stupid on its 1:07:19.660 --> 1:07:22.960 face because like, first of all, is your faith in 1:07:23.000 --> 1:07:26.040 your own culture and language so incredibly weak that like 1:07:26.140 --> 1:07:28.360 the presence of any other is a threat? 1:07:29.470 --> 1:07:32.510 I mean, they do keep a pretty strict hold on French. 1:07:34.230 --> 1:07:35.930 They're very worried about it. Yeah, yeah. 1:07:36.010 --> 1:07:38.870 The state is leaning on the scale in France. But 1:07:38.890 --> 1:07:42.110 like the idea that the wonderful diversity of Romance languages 1:07:42.130 --> 1:07:44.070 is great and should be celebrated and protected. But like, 1:07:44.430 --> 1:07:46.280 where the fuck do you think like all the words 1:07:46.300 --> 1:07:49.840 that begin with AL in Spanish come from? It's not France. No. 1:07:50.500 --> 1:07:54.850 Like, Or any word with SK in English is originally 1:07:54.870 --> 1:07:57.810 some Scandinavian origins there. 1:07:58.310 --> 1:08:01.110 Like this isn't the first time anyone came to Europe. 1:08:01.150 --> 1:08:01.850 This isn't new. 1:08:02.190 --> 1:08:02.530 Yeah. 1:08:02.710 --> 1:08:02.910 Yeah. 1:08:02.930 --> 1:08:04.860 People have been doing this for a minute. It's like 1:08:05.620 --> 1:08:07.840 if you are really good at like, probably not if 1:08:07.860 --> 1:08:10.320 you're really good at throwing, but you can definitely swim 1:08:10.380 --> 1:08:14.140 to North Africa from the European Union pretty easily. Well, yeah. Well, 1:08:14.160 --> 1:08:16.800 not easily. It'd be a pretty rough trip. 1:08:16.900 --> 1:08:20.689 Between Spain and Morocco, I think it's the most doable. 1:08:20.979 --> 1:08:23.990 Yeah, yeah. I'm sure a human could do it. People 1:08:24.010 --> 1:08:28.250 swim to France. No one knows why. To avoid Spain? 1:08:28.490 --> 1:08:30.269 I think if they're going from the United Kingdom, so 1:08:30.330 --> 1:08:34.760 it would be... People do this as a physical insurance challenge. Okay. 1:08:35.380 --> 1:08:36.800 I thought they stopped letting people do it. 1:08:37.470 --> 1:08:40.510 Quite possibly. I've not been following. I just remember when 1:08:40.550 --> 1:08:41.790 I was a kid, it would be a thing. 1:08:41.910 --> 1:08:42.550 Oh, yeah. 1:08:42.590 --> 1:08:45.750 They would like grease themselves and then swim the channel. 1:08:45.790 --> 1:08:45.910 Yeah. 1:08:45.990 --> 1:08:46.189 Okay. 1:08:46.210 --> 1:08:50.010 Well, I do respect the English fleeing away from England 1:08:50.050 --> 1:08:53.150 to France where there's at least a proper cuisine present. 1:08:54.250 --> 1:08:57.510 Damn. I'm sorry, James. I'm sorry. 1:08:57.530 --> 1:08:58.470 Yeah. Yeah. 1:08:59.720 --> 1:09:02.160 So have they gotten this ballot initiative or whatever you 1:09:02.180 --> 1:09:03.979 guys call it in Europe? Have they gotten this to 1:09:04.020 --> 1:09:06.460 be considered? Like, did they get enough support to force 1:09:06.479 --> 1:09:07.900 someone to consider this seriously? 1:09:09.270 --> 1:09:13.370 Yes and no. But we'll get there. But I love 1:09:13.470 --> 1:09:15.150 that you're thinking ahead with me. 1:09:15.170 --> 1:09:17.750 I just don't know how the government works over there, 1:09:17.950 --> 1:09:18.790 to be so honest. 1:09:19.110 --> 1:09:19.850 We don't either. 1:09:20.620 --> 1:09:21.479 Barely know how our. 1:09:21.400 --> 1:09:24.620 Government works oh barely i think is the correct answer 1:09:24.640 --> 1:09:25.200 to that. 1:09:25.560 --> 1:09:29.460 Yeah yeah yeah it doesn't if but i also still 1:09:29.479 --> 1:09:32.340 wanted to point out like with with the back to 1:09:32.380 --> 1:09:35.900 the initiative like what about migrants who speak air quotes 1:09:36.120 --> 1:09:40.400 our languages or practice our quotes our religions large parts 1:09:40.439 --> 1:09:43.599 of africa speak english or french or even portuguese it's 1:09:43.720 --> 1:09:46.050 some areas yeah Well, a lot of. 1:09:46.030 --> 1:09:50.229 Those people of African descent in those countries are from 1:09:50.350 --> 1:09:54.070 countries that were colonized by the people who don't want 1:09:54.110 --> 1:09:54.429 them there. 1:09:54.630 --> 1:09:54.910 Yeah. 1:09:55.270 --> 1:09:56.410 We're like, why do you think there are so many 1:09:56.490 --> 1:09:59.430 African people in France? And well, they all speak French, 1:09:59.470 --> 1:10:02.530 don't they? How'd they get there? Consider your actions. 1:10:03.450 --> 1:10:06.150 But that's exactly the point. Like if they're in Africa 1:10:06.189 --> 1:10:08.410 and they already speak the language, do they make the cut? 1:10:08.830 --> 1:10:11.790 Well, no, it sounds like under this initiative, no. So 1:10:11.810 --> 1:10:14.440 much of what they're putting forward is bad faith, right? 1:10:14.450 --> 1:10:17.560 They're like, oh, you know, it's about our cultural heritage, 1:10:18.580 --> 1:10:21.300 our linguistic heritage. It's like, okay, well, what about people 1:10:21.340 --> 1:10:23.420 who grew up in a French colony in Africa? Are 1:10:23.460 --> 1:10:25.640 they not French? No, they're not white. 1:10:25.800 --> 1:10:28.719 No, but that is exactly where it's leading. 1:10:29.100 --> 1:10:31.460 And that's why, okay, they speak your language. They can 1:10:31.500 --> 1:10:33.120 have your religion. Is this enough? 1:10:33.220 --> 1:10:35.200 Which is why this just sounds like the Nuremberg loss 1:10:35.240 --> 1:10:35.439 to me. 1:10:36.780 --> 1:10:39.769 Like, honestly, we shouldn't even engage with these arguments because 1:10:39.950 --> 1:10:43.490 it just reduces any form of nuance or complexity to 1:10:43.510 --> 1:10:44.650 the barest fucking minimum. 1:10:45.729 --> 1:10:48.750 They wrote racism by committee. They made a very fancy 1:10:48.770 --> 1:10:50.950 document to say we're very racist. 1:10:51.210 --> 1:10:51.350 Oh. 1:10:52.270 --> 1:10:55.650 Like, I checked the comments on the Save Europe website 1:10:55.689 --> 1:10:58.840 when I was working on this and would not recommend. 1:10:58.860 --> 1:11:00.160 Oh, I bet. 1:11:00.220 --> 1:11:00.480 Yeah. 1:11:01.240 --> 1:11:05.340 Not great. But it's essentially just this bit. And we're 1:11:05.380 --> 1:11:05.860 going through it. 1:11:06.300 --> 1:11:09.680 Like point three again, their demands, it's just grafting the 1:11:09.720 --> 1:11:15.200 great replacement theory, trying to get it considered under European law. 1:11:15.720 --> 1:11:18.060 And if you consider how large Europe is and how 1:11:19.080 --> 1:11:23.160 few people they would need to get this to be 1:11:23.220 --> 1:11:27.700 considered is absolutely baffling. But we'll get there because I'm 1:11:27.840 --> 1:11:30.100 trying to keep some sort of structure here. 1:11:30.600 --> 1:11:31.900 Sorry, that's on me. 1:11:32.100 --> 1:11:34.240 Now, I love how engaged you are, Molly. 1:11:34.280 --> 1:11:39.720 So don't apologize. continue and also the whole notion of 1:11:39.939 --> 1:11:43.939 demographic replacement in in countries that barely exist for 200 1:11:43.939 --> 1:11:47.860 years can you call this like your ancestral homeland. 1:11:47.660 --> 1:11:49.240 There was no italy 200 years ago there was no 1:11:49.340 --> 1:11:54.410 germany 200 years ago like what grand historical narrative are 1:11:54.430 --> 1:11:57.790 you pretending exists here yeah like if you're following that 1:11:57.830 --> 1:12:00.470 lead then you must join my side with like we 1:12:00.490 --> 1:12:03.310 need to be gaelic again and just return to like 1:12:03.330 --> 1:12:07.020 our celtic forefathers before the romans dared to show up. 1:12:07.840 --> 1:12:10.760 And then at least there would be some historical accuracy 1:12:10.800 --> 1:12:14.099 to what they're claiming. But I dislike these people. 1:12:14.120 --> 1:12:16.040 I think they're full of shit. 1:12:16.439 --> 1:12:19.879 They very much are. So part three of the charter 1:12:19.979 --> 1:12:22.550 is about the demands that these people have of Europe 1:12:22.660 --> 1:12:25.020 and items they wish to see turned into law and policy. 1:12:25.439 --> 1:12:28.730 We therefore demand that the European Commission exercise its right 1:12:28.750 --> 1:12:32.430 of initiative under the treaties to propose and advance the 1:12:32.490 --> 1:12:37.430 following legislative and policy measures without delay. Article 1. 1:12:37.430 --> 1:12:42.570 Declare a formal moratorium on the new non-Western slash non-European 1:12:42.640 --> 1:12:48.080 immigration channels, including the suspension of asylum processes for economic 1:12:48.120 --> 1:12:51.979 migrants and applicants from safe countries of origin, the halting 1:12:52.020 --> 1:12:56.620 of new study and family reunification visas for non-Europeans, and 1:12:56.660 --> 1:13:01.020 the strict limitation of legal migration channels until social cohesion 1:13:01.080 --> 1:13:04.760 and cultural continuity in the member states are restored. That's 1:13:04.820 --> 1:13:05.500 fucking mental. 1:13:05.860 --> 1:13:08.750 We've done this before. We've done racist immigration quotas before. 1:13:08.850 --> 1:13:08.950 Yeah. 1:13:09.850 --> 1:13:12.970 And just like good luck at your universities taking those 1:13:13.010 --> 1:13:15.690 students from outside Europe. Let's see how that goes for you. 1:13:16.250 --> 1:13:17.800 Why do you think they're printing money? 1:13:18.560 --> 1:13:20.360 Oh, that's a problem in Europe, too. 1:13:20.420 --> 1:13:20.600 I know. 1:13:20.620 --> 1:13:24.019 So in American universities, like they're highly reliant on the 1:13:24.060 --> 1:13:25.700 tuition dollars of international students. 1:13:25.720 --> 1:13:26.559 Is that the case. 1:13:26.439 --> 1:13:26.980 In Europe as well? 1:13:27.860 --> 1:13:30.940 Not to the American extent, but... Yeah, not to the 1:13:31.010 --> 1:13:34.030 same extent. But work at universities in Europe long enough 1:13:34.050 --> 1:13:36.429 and you'll be like, I see some of these folks. 1:13:37.570 --> 1:13:41.490 European universities have largely also received budget cuts. So I 1:13:42.270 --> 1:13:45.350 wouldn't be surprised if this is also happening in Europe, 1:13:45.370 --> 1:13:46.969 but then to a lesser extent. 1:13:47.479 --> 1:13:52.320 Yeah, I think the move towards the American model of education. Yeah. Sadly, 1:13:52.340 --> 1:13:54.660 sadly upon all of us. Yeah, we're just four or 1:13:54.689 --> 1:13:58.970 five years behind on America. In cultural waves. Well, I 1:13:58.990 --> 1:14:01.769 don't know. You're leading the charge here with this. Yeah, 1:14:01.790 --> 1:14:05.150 like even that haunted mannequin you have in the White House. 1:14:06.050 --> 1:14:08.710 The bald one. The bald one. I forgot his name. 1:14:09.130 --> 1:14:09.750 Stephen Miller? 1:14:10.090 --> 1:14:10.910 Yes, that one. 1:14:12.450 --> 1:14:13.970 Bald haunted doll. That's got to be him. 1:14:14.729 --> 1:14:16.599 Yeah, you narrowed it right down. 1:14:17.200 --> 1:14:20.160 Yeah, but as far as I know, even Stephen Miller 1:14:20.200 --> 1:14:25.570 hasn't put anything this explicitly great replacement into law. But 1:14:25.610 --> 1:14:27.110 I'm no expert on America. 1:14:27.130 --> 1:14:31.710 Yeah, Miller will certainly say stuff that's very great replacement-y, right? 1:14:31.729 --> 1:14:35.309 Like on his ex-account. But yeah, attempting to get this. 1:14:35.380 --> 1:14:38.080 But in terms of legislative proposals, I mean, this is 1:14:38.120 --> 1:14:40.700 giving 1920s immigration law, right? 1:14:41.380 --> 1:14:42.200 Yeah. 1:14:42.220 --> 1:14:44.540 The sort of quotas that we set to keep essentially 1:14:44.580 --> 1:14:46.270 Jews out of the United States in the 20s and 30s. 1:14:47.340 --> 1:14:50.979 Yeah, the Chinese Exclusion Act, which was like how our 1:14:51.020 --> 1:14:53.780 immigration policy began in the United States. Not great. 1:14:54.860 --> 1:14:58.080 So, yeah, we have done this before. It was during 1:14:58.100 --> 1:15:00.620 the nadir of American race relations. 1:15:01.420 --> 1:15:04.320 Yeah, Germany wants to chime in as well as of recent. 1:15:04.400 --> 1:15:07.060 So going on a great path, guys. 1:15:07.600 --> 1:15:09.890 Yeah, things are going pretty good there, right? 1:15:09.900 --> 1:15:10.589 Yeah. 1:15:10.900 --> 1:15:11.730 Politically right now. 1:15:12.250 --> 1:15:15.650 Yes. No, no, it's absolutely great. So we have four 1:15:15.670 --> 1:15:17.210 more articles. Sorry. 1:15:17.540 --> 1:15:22.040 Article two, I'm sorry, establish a fundamental reform of the 1:15:22.120 --> 1:15:25.380 existing EU migration and asylum systems during the time of 1:15:25.420 --> 1:15:29.920 this moratorium, including a total reform of the current migration framework, 1:15:30.380 --> 1:15:34.979 focusing on external border protection, physical and technological barriers at 1:15:35.010 --> 1:15:39.110 the frontiers, rapid screening and immediate return mechanisms. 1:15:39.189 --> 1:15:41.269 Are they going to build a wall around Europe? 1:15:42.930 --> 1:15:46.550 Europe already kills more people with its border than we do. Like, 1:15:46.750 --> 1:15:51.710 Europe's physical border protection is the most murderous on the planet. 1:15:52.050 --> 1:15:52.310 Oh, yeah. 1:15:52.470 --> 1:15:55.100 They're not even very knowledgeable about the shit that they're 1:15:55.140 --> 1:15:55.900 racist about. 1:15:56.240 --> 1:15:59.580 It's probably worse than you think, because what they mean with, like, 1:15:59.620 --> 1:16:03.780 the external border protection is also us. I think, James, 1:16:04.060 --> 1:16:06.490 we talked a little bit about this, about when Trump 1:16:06.550 --> 1:16:08.089 wanted to send migrants to Libya. 1:16:08.729 --> 1:16:09.570 But there are just. 1:16:09.990 --> 1:16:14.040 sort of European control zones within Africa. Like, a few 1:16:14.080 --> 1:16:17.860 weeks ago, there was the migrants storming the gates in Spain, 1:16:18.140 --> 1:16:20.479 and that was in Ceuta. 1:16:20.820 --> 1:16:21.809 Ceuta. Thank you. 1:16:22.400 --> 1:16:25.250 But that's the Spanish territory of Morocco. 1:16:25.729 --> 1:16:29.570 What these people want is more Alan Curtis, right? Like, 1:16:29.650 --> 1:16:33.350 more little dead children. Yeah. We just passed the 11th 1:16:33.410 --> 1:16:37.099 anniversary of his death, right? It was in September 2015. But, like, 1:16:38.990 --> 1:16:41.189 Either we've got far away from that, that you can 1:16:41.270 --> 1:16:45.330 con people into talking about hard borders again and not 1:16:45.370 --> 1:16:50.189 understanding that hard borders means dead children, or people remember 1:16:50.210 --> 1:16:51.790 that and they think that that was a good thing, 1:16:51.830 --> 1:16:54.870 that they'll stop people coming if we just kill a 1:16:54.910 --> 1:16:58.090 few more little innocent kids like this. Because that's what 1:16:58.170 --> 1:17:01.850 Europe's physical borders do, is that they drown children. Oh yeah, 1:17:01.910 --> 1:17:05.979 Fortress Europe, the mortar is exclusively dead children. 1:17:06.560 --> 1:17:09.440 Because also, I think it was in Hungary, from the 1:17:09.479 --> 1:17:11.590 top of my head, where they had just like these 1:17:11.830 --> 1:17:16.290 chain-linked fences with razor wire. And there was also the 1:17:16.330 --> 1:17:19.849 lighthouse reports where they had people in literal dog kennels 1:17:19.930 --> 1:17:20.910 or some shit. 1:17:21.689 --> 1:17:23.030 Yeah. Okay. 1:17:23.070 --> 1:17:25.130 Let's rush a bit through this bit so we can 1:17:25.170 --> 1:17:25.990 go to the funny bits. 1:17:26.330 --> 1:17:29.229 Yeah. So I just looked this up and I spoiled 1:17:29.270 --> 1:17:30.970 it for myself. And now I know who wrote this. 1:17:31.110 --> 1:17:31.330 Okay. 1:17:31.350 --> 1:17:37.620 Come on. Don't worry, guys, you'll get a live react 1:17:37.660 --> 1:17:40.420 from me, listeners. Oh, I think there's stuff in here 1:17:40.439 --> 1:17:42.420 that Molly does not yet know, so. 1:17:42.439 --> 1:17:44.350 Oh, no, I just got one little peek and I 1:17:44.350 --> 1:17:45.970 was like, I can't spoil it for myself anymore. 1:17:46.290 --> 1:17:47.010 Okay, great. 1:17:47.570 --> 1:17:51.250 Then Article 3 of the Act ensured a systematic and 1:17:51.290 --> 1:17:57.599 accelerated return, re-migration in quotes, of illegally staying migrants, reject 1:17:57.660 --> 1:18:01.280 asylum seekers, and persons who have committed criminal offenses or 1:18:01.380 --> 1:18:05.040 pose a threat to public order. with full mutual recognition 1:18:05.120 --> 1:18:09.120 of return decisions across the union and enhanced cooperation with 1:18:09.180 --> 1:18:10.820 third countries for readmission. 1:18:11.600 --> 1:18:14.610 Wow. Really at the Trump playbook on the last one. 1:18:15.390 --> 1:18:17.990 I made some comments for myself here and it's mostly like, 1:18:18.410 --> 1:18:20.389 how do you define this? How do you quote this? 1:18:20.470 --> 1:18:24.720 How do you force third countries to cooperate? It's like, 1:18:25.729 --> 1:18:26.960 you can't like. 1:18:27.080 --> 1:18:29.600 Yeah well this is a trump fantasy right like we'll 1:18:29.700 --> 1:18:32.000 use our economic power to lean on you to do 1:18:32.060 --> 1:18:35.120 our crimes against humanity for us it's the sort of 1:18:35.320 --> 1:18:40.650 might makes right approach to uh international relations our leaning 1:18:40.740 --> 1:18:43.450 on other countries hasn't gone so well right like it 1:18:43.470 --> 1:18:45.430 ain't gonna go better for the eu. 1:18:45.670 --> 1:18:48.410 No because most of the countries that we send them 1:18:48.450 --> 1:18:51.220 to don't want to engage in this process or don't 1:18:51.260 --> 1:18:54.380 want them back. So how are you going to force 1:18:54.460 --> 1:18:57.100 it unless we want to build some island in the 1:18:57.150 --> 1:19:00.110 middle of the Mediterranean to put all the stateless people? 1:19:00.130 --> 1:19:01.669 Don't give them any ideas. 1:19:02.030 --> 1:19:04.450 Making a bunch of people stateless is not a really 1:19:04.490 --> 1:19:04.990 bad sign. 1:19:06.360 --> 1:19:08.840 No, that's a sign of a healthy system. 1:19:09.479 --> 1:19:10.660 Let's proceed. 1:19:11.100 --> 1:19:11.440 Tragedy? 1:19:11.460 --> 1:19:11.840 Yeah. 1:19:12.460 --> 1:19:12.780 Never. 1:19:13.380 --> 1:19:18.190 Never in the history. Establish a harmonized EU-wide framework for 1:19:18.270 --> 1:19:24.510 broader remigration, including voluntary and incentivized remigration measures for non-European 1:19:24.550 --> 1:19:29.310 migrants who are unintegrated or constitute a serious cultural or 1:19:29.390 --> 1:19:31.030 financial burden to member states. 1:19:31.689 --> 1:19:32.570 Unintegrated. 1:19:33.229 --> 1:19:34.610 Cultural burden. 1:19:34.850 --> 1:19:36.970 They just don't look like I think they should look. 1:19:37.530 --> 1:19:41.070 Yeah. To support the restoration of demographic balance. 1:19:41.910 --> 1:19:44.959 This is obviously someone who's just really worried about Western culture. 1:19:45.400 --> 1:19:48.380 Definitely not someone who's been a well-known neo-Nazi for more 1:19:48.400 --> 1:19:49.080 than a decade. 1:19:49.439 --> 1:19:54.420 Ah, now I know which name you read. That person 1:19:54.460 --> 1:19:56.700 is an identitarian, Molly. Learn the difference. 1:19:57.310 --> 1:20:01.070 Yeah, his involvement with the Aryan Jugend in Austria, there's 1:20:01.250 --> 1:20:02.150 nothing to do with this. 1:20:03.290 --> 1:20:06.210 Molly, are you really saying that Nazis come from Austria? 1:20:06.470 --> 1:20:07.430 Please, read a history book. 1:20:07.450 --> 1:20:08.469 Name me one example. 1:20:09.290 --> 1:20:14.410 Exactly. Nothing bad politically ever came out of Austria. Maybe 1:20:14.450 --> 1:20:16.870 we should replace them all. Maybe they're onto something here. 1:20:17.090 --> 1:20:19.110 Maybe the replacement is going to be great. 1:20:21.070 --> 1:20:26.910 If we replace them with literally anything. And the last one, because... 1:20:27.479 --> 1:20:32.160 Jesus fucking Christ. Remove social welfare incentives and benefits that 1:20:32.220 --> 1:20:36.639 function as pool factors for migration, including restrictions in accordance 1:20:36.700 --> 1:20:41.150 with union law on access by non-citizens and recent migrants 1:20:41.390 --> 1:20:44.970 to selected welfare benefits and support systems, so as to 1:20:45.010 --> 1:20:49.910 reduce incentives for further migration, lessen the burden on European taxpayers, 1:20:50.350 --> 1:20:51.770 and encourage re-migration. 1:20:52.340 --> 1:20:55.190 Oh yeah, people are just coming there for the welfare 1:20:55.229 --> 1:20:58.590 because it's like really good. They're risking drowning in the 1:20:58.689 --> 1:21:00.950 sea because they really want to participate in the social 1:21:01.330 --> 1:21:03.560 welfare system. And it's not because they're fleeing other forms 1:21:03.600 --> 1:21:04.180 of violence. 1:21:04.780 --> 1:21:08.260 No, no, they're paying money to the smugglers so they 1:21:08.280 --> 1:21:10.439 can get to our welfare. Yeah, so they can be 1:21:10.479 --> 1:21:13.360 on the dole because it's such a fucking great life. 1:21:13.900 --> 1:21:16.059 And I'm sure there's no ulterior motive here where these 1:21:16.100 --> 1:21:18.160 people actually want to cut welfare for everyone because they 1:21:18.200 --> 1:21:19.340 also probably just hate poor people. 1:21:19.640 --> 1:21:23.830 Oh, definitely. Definitely. There is some very rich people involved 1:21:23.910 --> 1:21:24.729 in this as well. 1:21:25.210 --> 1:21:25.769 You don't say. 1:21:25.790 --> 1:21:25.870 Yeah. 1:21:27.470 --> 1:21:31.009 I do say. Shocking. It's an American plot twist. 1:21:31.750 --> 1:21:34.670 So I think this is a good point to do 1:21:34.710 --> 1:21:38.000 a very good impromptu ad break. Because this took a 1:21:38.020 --> 1:21:39.389 bit longer than expected. 1:21:39.740 --> 1:21:41.290 That's my fault. 1:21:41.330 --> 1:21:43.330 This is what you get with me and Molly. This 1:21:43.390 --> 1:21:44.370 is fucking chaos. 1:21:44.410 --> 1:21:46.870 This is honestly why I do it. But I think 1:21:46.890 --> 1:21:48.070 we all need a palate cleanser. 1:21:48.090 --> 1:21:49.970 Yeah, enjoy these ads. 1:21:50.930 --> 1:21:54.620 Probably not as horrible as the Save Europe Act. Oh, 1:21:54.630 --> 1:21:56.770 you don't know some rich people. People don't get rich 1:21:56.790 --> 1:21:59.349 without selling shit from advertisements. Yeah, that's true. You don't 1:21:59.370 --> 1:22:02.229 know where that money's going. Yeah, let it be dick pills. 1:22:03.060 --> 1:22:15.799 Fingers crossed. And we're back. 1:22:16.840 --> 1:22:21.900 Cleansed from horrible shit that we'll continue onward with. So, 1:22:22.540 --> 1:22:25.720 near the end of May this year, the two co-founders 1:22:25.800 --> 1:22:29.360 of the Save Europe Act submitted the European Citizens Initiative. 1:22:30.010 --> 1:22:31.850 Those names are Martin Selner. 1:22:31.870 --> 1:22:33.010 Yeah. Yeah. 1:22:33.990 --> 1:22:39.680 Molly's BFF, judging by her reaction. And my favorite country person, 1:22:40.240 --> 1:22:41.340 Eva Vlaardingerbroek. 1:22:42.040 --> 1:22:42.280 Okay. 1:22:42.300 --> 1:22:44.559 I haven't heard of her. I'm looking forward to learning about... 1:22:44.900 --> 1:22:45.840 Say that Dutch name again. 1:22:46.340 --> 1:22:46.480 Yeah. 1:22:46.500 --> 1:22:48.540 Can we take a second pass at that surname? 1:22:49.080 --> 1:22:50.080 Take a charge of that. 1:22:50.100 --> 1:22:51.840 Vlaardingerbroek. 1:22:52.640 --> 1:22:53.320 I'm not saying that. 1:22:53.720 --> 1:22:55.780 This is a language he has said we have to 1:22:55.840 --> 1:22:56.650 fight to preserve. 1:22:56.810 --> 1:22:56.940 Yeah. 1:22:56.970 --> 1:22:57.050 Yeah. 1:22:57.970 --> 1:23:01.750 Dutch is such a beautiful, beautiful language. It doesn't sound 1:23:01.770 --> 1:23:05.250 like a German with a terrible head injury had 17 beers. 1:23:07.340 --> 1:23:08.180 Sorry. 1:23:08.220 --> 1:23:10.540 How did you know the origins of my beautiful language? 1:23:12.820 --> 1:23:15.720 It's like their origin. 1:23:16.200 --> 1:23:19.920 It's still better than English because that's just like English, 1:23:20.280 --> 1:23:23.940 French and Scandinavian and gay, like all thrown into a blunder. 1:23:24.540 --> 1:23:28.439 Yeah, no, it's our indigenous language that we... Yeah, we're 1:23:28.560 --> 1:23:29.420 Native Americans. 1:23:29.880 --> 1:23:30.939 It's our indigenous language. 1:23:31.000 --> 1:23:34.800 Indigenous British people, a country that famously was never colonized 1:23:34.820 --> 1:23:39.020 or received migration from anywhere until about 1998. 1:23:39.020 --> 1:23:41.610 That was the first time the culture was adulterated. 1:23:42.090 --> 1:23:44.010 Because of woke. Famously true. Because of woke. 1:23:44.870 --> 1:23:47.310 It does get me to another point because, like, James, 1:23:47.370 --> 1:23:50.110 when I texted you about this, you already said, like, 1:23:50.310 --> 1:23:52.610 people will not be able to pronounce her name. And 1:23:52.650 --> 1:23:55.430 I jokingly said to you, like, we could, could just 1:23:55.490 --> 1:23:56.650 call her Ava Brown. 1:23:57.310 --> 1:23:58.030 Ava Brown shirt. 1:23:58.430 --> 1:24:03.300 No, no, Ava Brown. Like, uh, the. Yeah, yeah, I know. 1:24:03.320 --> 1:24:05.900 Hitler's girlfriend. I know. But I will not do that. 1:24:06.380 --> 1:24:08.420 So if Vlardinger broke. 1:24:08.979 --> 1:24:11.540 Put some more throat into it. 1:24:14.490 --> 1:24:16.930 I will not do that because, well, in part because 1:24:16.970 --> 1:24:20.950 libel laws exist, but much more importantly, I think it's 1:24:20.990 --> 1:24:25.030 an unfair comparison. The original Eva Brau was just Hitler's wife, 1:24:25.450 --> 1:24:27.830 and she had very little to do with politics or 1:24:27.910 --> 1:24:31.250 policy or governance or anything else. She was asked or 1:24:31.290 --> 1:24:34.140 instructed to leave any time business or politics came up. 1:24:34.770 --> 1:24:39.100 And Vlaardingerbroek is much more involved in the political discourse and, 1:24:39.260 --> 1:24:42.939 as the Save Europe Act shows, in theorizing and crafting policy. 1:24:43.660 --> 1:24:47.060 So a much more apt but far less funny comparison 1:24:47.090 --> 1:24:50.430 would be to call her Eva Goebbels or Eva Heydrich. 1:24:51.020 --> 1:24:53.080 But that's just less funny. So I will just call 1:24:53.120 --> 1:24:55.200 her Eva. We'll get to her. 1:24:56.000 --> 1:24:58.280 So I've never heard of Eva. Martin Selner, just for the, well, 1:24:58.320 --> 1:25:00.240 I was so excited that this is fucking Martin Selner. 1:25:00.979 --> 1:25:04.530 He was involved with the American alt-right 10 years ago. 1:25:04.689 --> 1:25:07.250 There was an attempt to sort of create bridges between 1:25:07.270 --> 1:25:12.230 the American sort of burgeoning, sort of mainstreaming of neo-Nazis 1:25:12.290 --> 1:25:15.230 into the sort of political right. There was attempts to 1:25:15.720 --> 1:25:19.910 merge with the identitarian movements of France, and I guess 1:25:20.290 --> 1:25:23.830 in Austria, where Martin Sellner is from. Identity Europa was 1:25:24.010 --> 1:25:27.450 modeled after Generation Identity in France, which Martin Sellner also 1:25:27.490 --> 1:25:29.930 modeled his group off of in Austria. And so there 1:25:29.950 --> 1:25:33.820 were some connections there, like in 2017 when, oh, that 1:25:33.880 --> 1:25:37.620 horrible bitch from Canada, Lauren Southern. Lauren Southern got detained 1:25:37.939 --> 1:25:40.040 because she and Martin Sellner were on a boat that 1:25:40.080 --> 1:25:42.340 was like trying to drown migrants in the sea. 1:25:42.500 --> 1:25:44.040 God, I'd forgotten about that. 1:25:44.060 --> 1:25:44.160 Okay. 1:25:44.930 --> 1:25:48.430 So yeah, we know this man. He's trying to drown migrants. 1:25:48.130 --> 1:25:51.219 In the sea. Yeah, well, that answers my question about 1:25:51.810 --> 1:25:53.190 what they meant by the borders. 1:25:53.680 --> 1:25:56.980 But on the bright side, Molly, I do think Martin 1:25:57.000 --> 1:25:59.660 Selner looks like a looks-maxing Richard Spencer. 1:26:00.420 --> 1:26:02.180 Well, I don't know if you've seen Richard Spencer lately. 1:26:02.540 --> 1:26:03.660 It's not hard to look better than that. 1:26:04.300 --> 1:26:07.080 Looking like shit, brother. I missed my weekly Zoom call 1:26:07.120 --> 1:26:09.240 with him, so I'm not sure what's going on. 1:26:09.560 --> 1:26:11.460 Yeah, divorce did not treat him well. 1:26:11.880 --> 1:26:14.360 Okay, good. He deserves it. Okay. 1:26:14.780 --> 1:26:18.100 The European Citizens Initiative. At the time of writing, it 1:26:18.220 --> 1:26:21.439 obtained about 740,000 signatures. 1:26:21.660 --> 1:26:22.910 Oh, that's more than I would have preferred. 1:26:22.930 --> 1:26:26.430 Well, there's sort of good news on that front later. 1:26:26.870 --> 1:26:30.650 The system itself is less known among both Europeans and Americans. 1:26:31.390 --> 1:26:34.629 And the rejection of the Safe Europe Act is incredibly 1:26:34.689 --> 1:26:38.210 simple and dumb once you realize how it works. The 1:26:38.290 --> 1:26:42.000 ECI is pretty much a mechanism for some diluted form 1:26:42.040 --> 1:26:46.180 of direct democracy within the European Union. ECI proposals that 1:26:46.240 --> 1:26:49.460 are accepted call directly on the European Council to propose 1:26:49.520 --> 1:26:54.440 a legal act, usually a directive or legislation, on certain conditions. 1:26:54.939 --> 1:26:58.580 One of them is that the petition reaches one million signatures. 1:26:59.000 --> 1:27:00.920 Oh, so they didn't make it. So we don't have 1:27:00.939 --> 1:27:01.920 to take this seriously at all. 1:27:02.360 --> 1:27:03.540 We do, unfortunately. 1:27:03.560 --> 1:27:04.840 Oh, we do. 1:27:05.880 --> 1:27:08.120 When you've got three quarters of a million people signing 1:27:08.160 --> 1:27:10.430 on to something as openly racist as this shit, I 1:27:10.470 --> 1:27:11.390 think you do have to. 1:27:11.720 --> 1:27:12.860 But like, it's not going to get voted on. 1:27:12.939 --> 1:27:15.460 No, we'll get there. Okay. 1:27:16.180 --> 1:27:17.220 Explain Europe to me. 1:27:18.280 --> 1:27:18.900 Horribad. 1:27:19.220 --> 1:27:22.540 So, point two, that those signatures are from at least 1:27:22.720 --> 1:27:26.640 seven different member states with minimum amounts for each of 1:27:26.680 --> 1:27:28.200 those seven or more states. 1:27:28.840 --> 1:27:29.320 That makes sense. 1:27:29.340 --> 1:27:32.059 You can't just get like a million racist Croatians design it. 1:27:32.360 --> 1:27:33.259 No, exactly. 1:27:33.280 --> 1:27:34.980 No offense to Croatia. You just do have a lot 1:27:35.010 --> 1:27:35.599 of neo-Nazis. 1:27:35.870 --> 1:27:38.860 Don't look into their streets. On top, there's also a 1:27:38.920 --> 1:27:42.360 minimum amount of signatures that's needed per member state to 1:27:42.420 --> 1:27:45.620 ensure there's broad support for an idea across the EU. 1:27:46.200 --> 1:27:48.230 For example, you cannot have all the votes coming from 1:27:48.280 --> 1:27:51.510 Germany and only six votes from other member states. The 1:27:51.530 --> 1:27:54.450 minimums are based on the number of EU parliament members 1:27:55.090 --> 1:27:57.110 multiplied by 750. For example, the Dutch must deliver 20,445 1:27:57.110 --> 1:28:08.160 votes of this million, while Luxembourg only needs 4,230. So 1:28:08.180 --> 1:28:10.660 just like some proportional representation there. 1:28:11.140 --> 1:28:11.280 Right. 1:28:11.300 --> 1:28:14.280 So all the European Union member states have to kind 1:28:14.340 --> 1:28:14.840 of be on board. 1:28:15.500 --> 1:28:18.059 Yeah. Or at least enough of them. Yeah. 1:28:18.780 --> 1:28:19.009 Right. 1:28:19.390 --> 1:28:21.009 Like you can't get something through just because two or 1:28:21.050 --> 1:28:23.849 three states are being nasty. That makes sense. 1:28:24.530 --> 1:28:24.769 Yes. 1:28:25.450 --> 1:28:29.210 And specifically because it is directed, it doesn't have to 1:28:29.250 --> 1:28:32.970 go through like your national parliament and to be then 1:28:33.070 --> 1:28:36.330 like thrown upwards towards the EU. This is directly between 1:28:36.370 --> 1:28:39.269 the citizens. and the European Commission. 1:28:39.870 --> 1:28:41.630 I guess I don't really know what the EU can 1:28:41.670 --> 1:28:44.110 and cannot do. How much power would something passed by 1:28:44.140 --> 1:28:48.120 at the EU level have to change the immigration laws 1:28:48.180 --> 1:28:48.900 of a country? 1:28:49.479 --> 1:28:50.979 I'm not smart enough to answer that. 1:28:51.420 --> 1:28:54.500 In a universe where the EU does say, we're signing 1:28:54.600 --> 1:28:57.090 on to this, this is real, we're doing it, Does 1:28:57.110 --> 1:28:59.800 that supersede the immigration laws at the national level of 1:28:59.840 --> 1:29:02.700 the member states? Can this even be something? I guess 1:29:02.740 --> 1:29:04.920 is my question. I don't know with how the EU works, 1:29:04.939 --> 1:29:05.880 to be so honest. 1:29:06.439 --> 1:29:08.760 In any worst case scenario, how we see this happening 1:29:08.880 --> 1:29:12.410 would be that it would get passed. I suppose that 1:29:12.430 --> 1:29:15.330 then some form of like that legislation or directive will 1:29:15.370 --> 1:29:20.549 be conjured up from the bowels of coccitis or whatever. 1:29:20.570 --> 1:29:20.639 And. 1:29:22.350 --> 1:29:24.229 Then it would have to be voted on within the 1:29:24.350 --> 1:29:28.030 EU parliament. And should that for some reason happen, then 1:29:28.110 --> 1:29:30.870 I think that would be a not insignificant amount of 1:29:30.950 --> 1:29:34.470 power that the EU holds over individual member states. Because 1:29:34.490 --> 1:29:37.070 we also do that for trade and for, you know, 1:29:37.130 --> 1:29:42.090 regulating things across European borders. Like even for us, how 1:29:42.110 --> 1:29:45.870 the EU functions exactly is shrouded in mystery. 1:29:46.110 --> 1:29:46.929 It's a great mystery. 1:29:47.030 --> 1:29:47.450 Yeah. 1:29:47.970 --> 1:29:51.809 They cooperate on migration, right? You see this with the 1:29:51.830 --> 1:29:55.670 way the EU places its borders, the way that the 1:29:55.729 --> 1:30:01.300 EU kind of takes something of a united front on 1:30:01.560 --> 1:30:03.620 how it deals with things. And you saw this in 1:30:03.979 --> 1:30:06.160 the beginnings of the Syrian civil war, right? You saw 1:30:06.220 --> 1:30:11.419 Europe cooperating first to, in some cases, receive Syrian migrants 1:30:11.460 --> 1:30:15.429 and in many cases to repel them violently. But states 1:30:15.470 --> 1:30:18.570 also still would have sovereign to you, but like the 1:30:18.630 --> 1:30:21.179 exact nature of their laws. It's not like the EU 1:30:21.229 --> 1:30:23.380 can dictate what it takes to be a British, well, 1:30:23.400 --> 1:30:27.380 a British bad example. Because they left. Yeah, sorry. Yeah, 1:30:27.580 --> 1:30:29.080 and so did I. But the EU. 1:30:29.040 --> 1:30:33.920 Can't say to France like, you can't admit any more immigrants. 1:30:33.620 --> 1:30:36.299 Yeah or like we are obliging you to to remove 1:30:36.360 --> 1:30:40.100 the citizenship or to like de-frenchify these people. 1:30:39.840 --> 1:30:42.019 To outlaw the speaking of other languages as far. 1:30:41.939 --> 1:30:44.300 As i'm aware yeah like that could be like giving 1:30:44.320 --> 1:30:46.240 passes for the eu parliament then i guess there would 1:30:46.260 --> 1:30:48.140 be like a set of principles that the states would 1:30:48.160 --> 1:30:50.439 have to try and adhere to yes with their own 1:30:50.500 --> 1:30:53.270 policies which they're not having trouble doing like they found 1:30:53.320 --> 1:30:56.519 a lot of racists in germany recently apparently like uh Oh, 1:30:56.540 --> 1:30:58.760 but we have them in the Netherlands as well. Don't worry. 1:30:58.979 --> 1:30:59.259 Yeah. 1:30:59.540 --> 1:31:01.400 Britain's not immune from that either. It will shock people 1:31:01.420 --> 1:31:01.720 to hear. 1:31:02.500 --> 1:31:05.230 But to get back to Molly, I do think that 1:31:05.470 --> 1:31:08.229 to a certain extent, the EU could put diplomatic or 1:31:08.290 --> 1:31:12.190 economic pressure on member states to enforce something like this 1:31:12.290 --> 1:31:13.530 or to nudge them. 1:31:13.890 --> 1:31:17.370 Or like obliquely, like you would have to comply with certain, 1:31:17.910 --> 1:31:20.150 I don't know, like language restrictions on things that are 1:31:20.210 --> 1:31:23.110 involved in trade. And that would sort of obliquely enforce 1:31:23.650 --> 1:31:25.240 restrictions at the national level. 1:31:25.710 --> 1:31:28.990 Yes, but also I think this would heavily strain relations 1:31:29.030 --> 1:31:32.229 between the EU and the member states because it is, 1:31:32.930 --> 1:31:34.650 I don't want to call it authoritarian, but it is 1:31:34.689 --> 1:31:38.460 a power, like a supernatural power that's sort of going 1:31:38.500 --> 1:31:41.780 to tell countries what to do. And I can't imagine 1:31:41.840 --> 1:31:45.000 if it is something as vile as this, that that 1:31:45.020 --> 1:31:45.800 would go over well. 1:31:46.340 --> 1:31:49.260 It's just, it's so funny to me that the nationalists 1:31:49.300 --> 1:31:52.370 we have today, there's no nationalism there. Like a true 1:31:52.450 --> 1:31:54.269 nationalist would find this abhorrent. 1:31:54.640 --> 1:31:55.939 I agree with you completely. 1:31:56.200 --> 1:31:57.480 Our nationalists can't even do it right. 1:31:57.820 --> 1:32:01.660 But it's only nationalism if you hate certain people. Otherwise, 1:32:01.780 --> 1:32:05.140 it's just being a rhino. I think you call them 1:32:05.200 --> 1:32:06.230 in the United States. 1:32:07.270 --> 1:32:07.969 A nino. 1:32:09.310 --> 1:32:12.110 So to get back to the ECI. In the original 1:32:12.170 --> 1:32:15.970 treaty that formalized this mechanism, it states several conditions that 1:32:16.330 --> 1:32:18.710 the proposed act must adhere to. 1:32:18.900 --> 1:32:19.640 Before it passes. 1:32:20.500 --> 1:32:24.610 An initiative must be within the legal constraints of the EU. obviously, 1:32:25.210 --> 1:32:30.009 and the initiative must not be, and I quote, manifestly abusive, frivolous, 1:32:30.150 --> 1:32:31.050 or vexatious. 1:32:31.530 --> 1:32:34.790 Okay, is this not manifestly abusive, frivolous, and vexatious? 1:32:34.810 --> 1:32:34.890 Yeah. 1:32:35.450 --> 1:32:39.309 I read those sentences as legal code for no bullshit, please. Yeah, 1:32:39.330 --> 1:32:41.690 but this is bullshit. Yeah, this is bullshit. 1:32:42.090 --> 1:32:42.230 Yeah. 1:32:43.130 --> 1:32:44.570 This is manifestly abusive. 1:32:45.450 --> 1:32:47.610 Yeah, it's the abusive one. I think they don't want 1:32:47.650 --> 1:32:52.380 you doing one that's like so-and-so is ugly and has 1:32:52.600 --> 1:32:54.650 a big nose or whatever they want. 1:32:54.810 --> 1:32:57.160 But this is vexatious and frivolous. 1:32:57.939 --> 1:33:01.660 Yeah, it's fucking vexing me, I can tell you. I'm vexed. 1:33:03.600 --> 1:33:05.580 Well, then it's good that we're slowly getting to the 1:33:05.620 --> 1:33:09.130 funnier parts of this. One of the more important things 1:33:09.170 --> 1:33:12.670 that were in this statement from the European Commission, because 1:33:13.229 --> 1:33:16.530 usually they all have to rule after the 1 million 1:33:16.570 --> 1:33:19.510 votes has been met. They already ruled on this, but 1:33:19.610 --> 1:33:22.630 not on its merits, but on the legality of it. 1:33:23.300 --> 1:33:26.960 And I'll be quoting directly from the document here. Article 1:33:26.960 --> 1:33:29.979 6.3 of the ECI states that the initiative is not 1:33:30.040 --> 1:33:33.420 manifestly contrary to the values of the union as set 1:33:33.520 --> 1:33:36.000 out in Article 2.1. And the rights and strides in 1:33:36.020 --> 1:33:39.500 the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union. Essentially, 1:33:39.600 --> 1:33:42.860 like whatever people want to pass and sign on to, 1:33:43.640 --> 1:33:46.900 it can't violate European law. I think this is important 1:33:46.939 --> 1:33:48.550 because proponents of. 1:33:48.510 --> 1:33:51.809 The Safe Europe Act will say that this petition was 1:33:51.850 --> 1:33:55.469 denied due to its politics and thus it's an anti-democratic ruling. 1:33:55.850 --> 1:33:58.330 Oh, I'm being canceled. I'm being canceled. No, you just 1:33:58.350 --> 1:33:58.990 didn't read the rules. 1:33:59.070 --> 1:33:59.990 Yeah, exactly. 1:34:00.290 --> 1:34:03.640 There is like a Twitter clip somewhere of Eva and 1:34:03.700 --> 1:34:06.729 Martin saying, discussing this it's like oh this is just 1:34:06.810 --> 1:34:12.019 anti-democratic and no no it isn't ava you're a legal 1:34:12.110 --> 1:34:16.140 philosopher you're smart enough to understand this yeah you've you've 1:34:16.220 --> 1:34:19.240 never read the talkville yeah i'll say that like she 1:34:19.280 --> 1:34:21.179 at least has credentials you know. 1:34:21.479 --> 1:34:24.519 Right because this is disingenuous they know they but they 1:34:24.640 --> 1:34:27.620 also know that it is very effective to say we're 1:34:27.660 --> 1:34:29.960 being silenced because of how right we are but these 1:34:30.320 --> 1:34:32.460 These mobs of people, the ones we think need to 1:34:32.479 --> 1:34:35.260 be brought under control, they're stopping us from doing this 1:34:35.300 --> 1:34:39.760 good thing. Like, that's a very effective form of this 1:34:39.820 --> 1:34:43.660 particular kind of rhetoric. Doing it wrong and pretending you're 1:34:43.680 --> 1:34:46.360 being silenced is more effective than actually doing it right. 1:34:46.390 --> 1:34:46.550 Yeah. 1:34:47.410 --> 1:34:47.809 And easier. 1:34:48.729 --> 1:34:51.050 That is the very scary part of, like, the Save 1:34:51.070 --> 1:34:55.269 Europe Act. Because in the end, this is much more 1:34:55.330 --> 1:34:59.870 about influencing the discourse and pushing the overtime window. Then 1:34:59.890 --> 1:35:00.809 it is about anything else. 1:35:01.630 --> 1:35:04.290 Right. If you can get the EU to even look 1:35:04.330 --> 1:35:06.929 at your petition, you have legitimized that this is something 1:35:06.970 --> 1:35:08.950 that belongs in the political sphere. 1:35:09.229 --> 1:35:09.450 Right. 1:35:09.710 --> 1:35:09.910 Yeah. 1:35:10.290 --> 1:35:13.290 You've moved it from storm front to in the middle 1:35:13.310 --> 1:35:14.130 of the Overton window. 1:35:14.250 --> 1:35:16.440 Like you're not just like a little fucking piss boy 1:35:16.570 --> 1:35:18.780 on a ship screaming and crying because you want migrants 1:35:18.820 --> 1:35:21.460 to drown in the sea. You're being considered by the 1:35:21.500 --> 1:35:22.120 European Union. 1:35:22.400 --> 1:35:22.599 Yes. 1:35:22.700 --> 1:35:26.320 And for now, they've just tested its legal viability with 1:35:26.400 --> 1:35:27.059 European law. 1:35:27.479 --> 1:35:31.560 And we're like, nope, get out. which like the fascists. 1:35:31.200 --> 1:35:36.519 Immediately claim as some sort of anti-democratic political violence against them. 1:35:37.150 --> 1:35:37.349 Yeah. 1:35:37.750 --> 1:35:41.229 We're being silenced. We're being silenced. Probably by the Jews. 1:35:41.250 --> 1:35:43.349 I mean, knowing Martin, I don't know if he says 1:35:43.390 --> 1:35:44.710 it out loud anymore. He used to. 1:35:45.189 --> 1:35:47.950 Like even in the statement, like the commission does not 1:35:48.020 --> 1:35:52.780 analyze the policy merits at the stage of the eligibility check. 1:35:53.080 --> 1:35:53.180 So. 1:35:54.229 --> 1:35:58.210 In layman's terms, the proposed act is incompatible with existing 1:35:58.250 --> 1:35:59.389 legal mumbo-jumbo. 1:36:00.270 --> 1:36:02.220 I can file any lawsuit I want in court. I 1:36:02.240 --> 1:36:04.840 could file a lawsuit saying that you put a spell 1:36:04.920 --> 1:36:08.400 on my dog that made him racist. But I could 1:36:08.420 --> 1:36:09.700 file that in court and the judge is not going 1:36:09.720 --> 1:36:11.780 to rule on the facts of the case. He's just 1:36:11.800 --> 1:36:14.129 going to throw it out because that's not a real... 1:36:13.900 --> 1:36:15.910 You know what I mean? The ruling at that early 1:36:15.970 --> 1:36:20.290 stage is just that, well, this isn't real. There's no standing. 1:36:20.310 --> 1:36:23.700 There's no jurisdiction. This is not an actionable matter. So 1:36:23.720 --> 1:36:26.089 they're not saying whether this is good or bad. They're 1:36:26.100 --> 1:36:28.110 just saying this can't be here because they didn't meet 1:36:28.130 --> 1:36:28.970 the legal requirements. 1:36:29.410 --> 1:36:33.370 You're so succinct, Molly. I appreciate it. 1:36:33.390 --> 1:36:34.910 I read a lot of lawsuits that are a lot 1:36:34.970 --> 1:36:36.380 like this petition. 1:36:36.400 --> 1:36:37.099 Yeah. 1:36:37.360 --> 1:36:40.580 Well, given that the Alex Jones lawsuit existed. 1:36:40.720 --> 1:36:42.460 No, but when you throw something out at this early 1:36:42.479 --> 1:36:44.400 stage and you have people say like, oh, I'm being 1:36:44.420 --> 1:36:46.860 denied access to the system. No, it's that the system 1:36:46.900 --> 1:36:49.410 looked at what you produced and said, this is fake. 1:36:49.430 --> 1:36:49.570 Yeah. 1:36:50.290 --> 1:36:52.570 You have to wear a yellow sweater in order to 1:36:52.670 --> 1:36:56.410 access this bit. You're not wearing a yellow sweater. Therefore, 1:36:56.450 --> 1:36:57.290 you cannot come in. 1:36:57.590 --> 1:37:00.670 You're not being silenced. You're just not participating in the 1:37:00.689 --> 1:37:01.639 process properly. 1:37:02.260 --> 1:37:04.680 For shits and giggles, if I read between the lines, 1:37:05.100 --> 1:37:07.200 I think the commission itself was also a bit shocked 1:37:07.280 --> 1:37:09.960 at it. Because in the same press release about this, 1:37:10.020 --> 1:37:13.860 they state, the initiative must contain a genuine proposal and 1:37:13.900 --> 1:37:17.840 not be used as a vehicle for offensive or caricatural messages. 1:37:18.540 --> 1:37:21.180 Which I think is pretty sassy insofar as, like, legal 1:37:21.260 --> 1:37:24.880 sassy just goes. They're essentially saying, like, the fuck you 1:37:24.900 --> 1:37:29.300 doing is how I interpret it. There is, however, another 1:37:29.340 --> 1:37:32.600 threshold that they fail to meet, which is that anyone 1:37:32.680 --> 1:37:34.420 can sign an online petition. 1:37:34.439 --> 1:37:37.420 Uh-oh, these weren't valid signatures. 1:37:37.700 --> 1:37:40.969 Yes, there is no stopping you, the listener, from going 1:37:41.020 --> 1:37:44.550 to a website right now, sign in, and, you know, 1:37:44.610 --> 1:37:45.670 sign the Safe Europe Act. 1:37:45.729 --> 1:37:47.550 But I'm not a citizen of the European Union. 1:37:48.090 --> 1:37:50.530 But you can still sign it in a show of support. 1:37:50.950 --> 1:37:53.170 But that wouldn't count towards the 1 million signatures that 1:37:53.210 --> 1:37:53.570 they need. 1:37:54.150 --> 1:37:58.570 We're coming close because different states could require different identification. 1:37:58.590 --> 1:38:03.110 It can't be 10 people in a basement continuously making 1:38:03.170 --> 1:38:05.680 new email addresses and re-signing the petition. 1:38:05.729 --> 1:38:06.450 That doesn't work. 1:38:06.689 --> 1:38:09.760 So how do they go about validating those? That sounds complex. 1:38:10.360 --> 1:38:14.300 Not through how they're doing it right now. Because. 1:38:15.350 --> 1:38:17.929 All you need is a name that can be checked 1:38:17.970 --> 1:38:19.570 with an email address that can be checked. 1:38:19.590 --> 1:38:21.820 Oh, so they're not validating them. 1:38:22.479 --> 1:38:25.620 No, not in a way that would meet the criteria 1:38:25.800 --> 1:38:27.110 set by the European Union. 1:38:27.610 --> 1:38:29.630 So they knew they weren't doing this properly because that 1:38:29.650 --> 1:38:29.969 was nevertheless. 1:38:30.100 --> 1:38:31.740 Point. It was never the point. 1:38:32.000 --> 1:38:33.800 Because if you were running an actual sort of political 1:38:33.860 --> 1:38:36.559 campaign to get this thing advanced in a very serious way, 1:38:37.350 --> 1:38:39.450 you would have been collecting valid signatures that you would 1:38:39.490 --> 1:38:42.170 be able to validate if a legal challenge was brought. 1:38:42.729 --> 1:38:43.630 And they didn't do that. 1:38:43.970 --> 1:38:44.190 Yeah. 1:38:44.210 --> 1:38:44.290 Yeah. 1:38:44.570 --> 1:38:47.809 Yes, and you'd also put in safeguards to prevent people 1:38:47.830 --> 1:38:50.980 from outside the EU from voting on this or signing it. 1:38:51.439 --> 1:38:52.900 So this was never sincere? 1:38:53.080 --> 1:38:53.840 Absolutely not. 1:38:54.120 --> 1:38:54.780 That's shocking. 1:38:55.060 --> 1:38:56.300 I am shocked and appalled. 1:38:57.160 --> 1:38:59.060 A Nazi playing in my face? 1:38:59.820 --> 1:39:02.880 Well, it gets better, Molly, because now there's a bunch 1:39:02.920 --> 1:39:04.560 of names that I'm sure you'll recognize. 1:39:05.020 --> 1:39:05.519 Oh, yes. 1:39:05.700 --> 1:39:09.580 But there's also been American far-right agitators who have promoted 1:39:09.620 --> 1:39:10.299 this on Twitter. 1:39:10.920 --> 1:39:13.020 How many people signed it with the name Rudolph Hess? 1:39:13.439 --> 1:39:15.100 At least 10, right? Do you have a list of 1:39:15.120 --> 1:39:16.380 the signatures? I would love to look at them. 1:39:16.620 --> 1:39:19.340 I'll send you the website in a bit, but I'm 1:39:19.360 --> 1:39:22.599 not sure. But one of the very cool Americans who 1:39:22.640 --> 1:39:24.300 promoted this was Benny Johnson. 1:39:24.810 --> 1:39:25.510 No shit. 1:39:25.770 --> 1:39:26.189 Oh, wow. 1:39:26.410 --> 1:39:26.710 Yeah. 1:39:26.729 --> 1:39:30.070 He had one of the co-founders on his bigot cast 1:39:30.229 --> 1:39:33.570 and even tweeted a link to the petition. I don't 1:39:33.610 --> 1:39:36.270 know Benny Johnson, but I'm going to guess that his 1:39:36.390 --> 1:39:42.139 audience is largely American. So, yeah, not really sure. How 1:39:42.189 --> 1:39:46.460 much goods, signature-wise, that has done. But we can't rule 1:39:46.560 --> 1:39:49.519 out that there's a bunch of Americans who have signed it. 1:39:49.700 --> 1:39:54.660 And therefore, we don't know how many of those 750,000 1:39:54.660 --> 1:39:56.080 are legitimate. 1:39:56.100 --> 1:39:58.700 I would guess not a lot. 1:39:59.330 --> 1:40:02.730 Genuinely, I don't know. I also don't think there's any 1:40:02.770 --> 1:40:04.150 way to find out. 1:40:05.229 --> 1:40:07.170 Exactly, because if they did not collect them in a 1:40:07.189 --> 1:40:10.189 way that could be validated, they're not going to be. 1:40:10.670 --> 1:40:12.470 This was a waste of time because it was never 1:40:12.490 --> 1:40:12.790 the point. 1:40:12.870 --> 1:40:15.750 Well, it wasn't a waste of time. It's just it's 1:40:15.850 --> 1:40:17.380 not doing what it says on the tin. 1:40:18.320 --> 1:40:21.400 Collecting valid signatures was never actually the goal or they 1:40:21.420 --> 1:40:23.400 would have collected them in a way that would have 1:40:23.420 --> 1:40:24.000 been functional. 1:40:24.340 --> 1:40:24.520 Yes. 1:40:24.760 --> 1:40:25.040 Yeah. 1:40:25.720 --> 1:40:27.460 Well, I can sign it right now. It's right at 1:40:27.479 --> 1:40:30.260 the top of the page. Sign now. 1:40:30.520 --> 1:40:31.600 Please do not do that. 1:40:32.080 --> 1:40:32.930 I'm not going to do that. 1:40:33.350 --> 1:40:33.660 Thank you. 1:40:34.550 --> 1:40:38.129 Besides Benny, there were also others who did that, including 1:40:38.270 --> 1:40:40.650 like friend of the pod, Jack Posobiec. 1:40:41.490 --> 1:40:41.889 Oh, cool. 1:40:42.210 --> 1:40:47.450 And Joey Manarino, who tweeted, everyone, no matter where they 1:40:47.490 --> 1:40:50.610 are from, should go and sign this act. The momentum 1:40:50.650 --> 1:40:53.510 for remigration is so real and it could absolutely be 1:40:53.550 --> 1:40:56.490 pulled off if there is unity. Sign the act to 1:40:56.550 --> 1:40:57.290 save Europe. 1:40:58.210 --> 1:41:00.950 End quote. I wonder if Greg Bovino signed it. He's 1:41:00.970 --> 1:41:03.049 been over there doing some remigration chats. 1:41:03.850 --> 1:41:06.770 I'm sure he would enthusiastically sign it, but I didn't 1:41:06.850 --> 1:41:07.189 see him. 1:41:07.650 --> 1:41:11.050 Yeah. There's also like Lucy White, a Restore Britain candidate 1:41:11.070 --> 1:41:12.099 who also signed it. 1:41:12.520 --> 1:41:14.280 But she knows she doesn't live in the EU. 1:41:15.220 --> 1:41:17.400 One can assume. One can assume. 1:41:18.360 --> 1:41:20.540 And also, not to forget the worst thing that came 1:41:20.600 --> 1:41:24.590 out of apartheid South Africa, Elon Musk, who also shared 1:41:24.650 --> 1:41:25.750 a Save Europe video. 1:41:26.050 --> 1:41:26.849 Bold statement. 1:41:26.930 --> 1:41:27.330 Yes, bold. 1:41:27.689 --> 1:41:29.950 Oh, wow, Victor Orban signed it. That was shocking. 1:41:30.010 --> 1:41:31.410 Yeah, no surprises there. 1:41:31.830 --> 1:41:32.730 Really surprised there. 1:41:32.770 --> 1:41:33.510 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1:41:33.650 --> 1:41:33.910 Wow. 1:41:34.030 --> 1:41:37.360 Like, if Midlife Crisis Edison tweets about this, then we 1:41:37.380 --> 1:41:38.719 can safely assume that it has. 1:41:38.680 --> 1:41:40.939 Reached at least millions of people worldwide. 1:41:41.500 --> 1:41:44.080 But that still doesn't matter in terms of, like, the 1:41:44.120 --> 1:41:48.720 act being passed, because, again... No way to validate this. 1:41:48.979 --> 1:41:50.439 I just don't think there are a lot of Europeans 1:41:50.479 --> 1:41:53.330 are watching. Not a lot of Europeans are watching Benny Johnson. 1:41:53.350 --> 1:41:53.750 Yeah. 1:41:53.790 --> 1:41:55.250 I mean, not a lot of Americans are watching it. 1:41:55.310 --> 1:41:56.790 Not a lot of people are watching it. 1:41:57.189 --> 1:41:58.330 Nobody should watch him. 1:41:58.890 --> 1:42:02.229 But this is what upsets me because this is so 1:42:02.430 --> 1:42:06.080 incredibly doomed from the start. If you look at it 1:42:06.600 --> 1:42:10.200 like this is seeing Bruce Wayne's parents walk at the 1:42:10.240 --> 1:42:14.190 beginning of a Batman movie or like. Spider-Man's Uncle Ben 1:42:14.290 --> 1:42:19.030 or Kenny from fucking South Park. You know it's going 1:42:19.070 --> 1:42:22.480 to fail. You know they're going to die. For some reason, 1:42:22.520 --> 1:42:26.840 these people have taped the corpses over mannequins and just 1:42:26.900 --> 1:42:31.090 paraded them around as if there's still a possibility. 1:42:31.430 --> 1:42:35.759 But they are sort of continuing to advance the agenda 1:42:35.770 --> 1:42:38.640 that this is something that is up for legitimate debate 1:42:38.860 --> 1:42:42.420 right that that preserving western culture is a is a 1:42:42.900 --> 1:42:46.960 real political topic for debate right that like we need 1:42:47.000 --> 1:42:49.419 to have debates on on the floor of the parliament 1:42:49.479 --> 1:42:52.220 about whether or not we should all be speaking one language. 1:42:52.560 --> 1:42:54.080 From the top of my head i didn't check this 1:42:54.120 --> 1:42:57.320 i think europe has like 280 million people probably more 1:42:57.340 --> 1:43:01.599 and You're so nationalistic yet you want to use this 1:43:01.660 --> 1:43:04.650 shortcut of one million people to bypass like. 1:43:04.950 --> 1:43:07.890 Your own national sovereignty. That's what I'm saying. Like this is. 1:43:07.950 --> 1:43:08.170 Yeah. 1:43:08.470 --> 1:43:13.370 What kind of nationalism involves subverting national sovereignty, you fucking cucks? 1:43:13.850 --> 1:43:17.280 This is what gets me because it is working in 1:43:17.460 --> 1:43:20.620 terms of like public discourse and normalizing remigration. 1:43:20.640 --> 1:43:21.680 Yeah, it definitely is. 1:43:21.800 --> 1:43:24.600 And that's Elon Musk's primary goal right now is just 1:43:24.820 --> 1:43:28.880 normalizing this level of... of hitlerian discourse. 1:43:28.439 --> 1:43:30.620 Yeah which he has successfully done right like. 1:43:30.500 --> 1:43:34.120 Yeah he's doing it every day yeah he's doing like 1:43:34.160 --> 1:43:36.320 race and iq posting constantly. 1:43:36.200 --> 1:43:39.939 Yeah nothing screams high iq as much as talking non-stop 1:43:39.979 --> 1:43:43.420 about iq like everyone who has to tell you that 1:43:43.439 --> 1:43:47.580 they're so fucking smart it's probably not yeah so. 1:43:47.920 --> 1:43:49.800 Well that's why none of his rockets blow up because 1:43:49.820 --> 1:43:51.140 he's so smart. 1:43:51.340 --> 1:43:53.519 Don't look it up i'm sure he spent a great 1:43:53.560 --> 1:43:56.300 deal of time designing those rockets personally as well not 1:43:57.189 --> 1:43:58.689 posting 18 hours a day. 1:43:59.490 --> 1:44:03.310 Well, I'll respect Jeff Bezos' rocket just because they look 1:44:03.350 --> 1:44:04.050 more original. 1:44:04.490 --> 1:44:06.410 I'll never respect Jeff Bezos, and no one can make me. 1:44:08.020 --> 1:44:08.480 Fair point. 1:44:08.500 --> 1:44:10.559 When I picture Jeff Bezos, the only thing I picture 1:44:10.920 --> 1:44:14.380 is him on vacation with that, like, deep-V, like, unbuttoned 1:44:15.400 --> 1:44:19.040 dress shirt with the roast iguana. That's the only thing 1:44:19.080 --> 1:44:20.360 I think of when I think of Jeff Bezos. It's 1:44:20.380 --> 1:44:21.759 him holding a roasted iguana. 1:44:21.920 --> 1:44:24.610 Molly, I'm trying to focus on a podcast here. Stop 1:44:24.650 --> 1:44:30.480 selling me this... graphic, erotic picture of Jeff Bezos. That's 1:44:30.520 --> 1:44:32.780 not why we're here. We can do that on the 1:44:32.820 --> 1:44:33.620 other podcast. 1:44:33.840 --> 1:44:35.860 I think I'm combining two pictures in my mind. The 1:44:35.920 --> 1:44:38.380 iguana picture, he doesn't have the unbuttoned vacation shirt. 1:44:38.439 --> 1:44:38.839 Wow. 1:44:38.860 --> 1:44:40.870 I guess I'm just inventing an image in my mind. 1:44:40.910 --> 1:44:42.530 Yeah, Molly's headcanon. 1:44:42.550 --> 1:44:44.170 But the iguana pic is scary. 1:44:44.490 --> 1:44:45.810 Well, the good thing is you can now invent it 1:44:45.870 --> 1:44:48.530 on Grog. Cursed fan art. 1:44:48.830 --> 1:44:50.950 No, it'll just make child porn of Jeff Bezos. 1:44:51.250 --> 1:44:54.879 Yeah, his alive girl comments or texts. 1:44:57.380 --> 1:45:01.090 I forgot about I Love You Alive, girl. 1:45:01.320 --> 1:45:05.390 Oh, yeah. Soul is ghouls, the bunch of them. 1:45:05.930 --> 1:45:07.430 So the signatures were fake? 1:45:08.050 --> 1:45:09.110 Yeah, pretty much. 1:45:09.570 --> 1:45:12.410 Could be 10 people in a basement with like a 1:45:12.470 --> 1:45:16.599 supercomputer just generating clicks. We don't know, but I don't 1:45:16.640 --> 1:45:19.500 think it'll even reach the million. But even if it did, 1:45:19.900 --> 1:45:23.780 then the signatures would come in question. And yeah, just 1:45:24.120 --> 1:45:25.100 absolutely doomed. 1:45:25.729 --> 1:45:28.550 Well, actually, I hope they have to raise a bunch 1:45:28.590 --> 1:45:31.230 of money from a bunch of fucking rubes to hire 1:45:31.290 --> 1:45:33.730 someone to validate the signatures, which they won't be able 1:45:33.750 --> 1:45:35.010 to do. I would love that. 1:45:35.050 --> 1:45:37.229 There will be a lawyer out there who will... I mean, 1:45:37.250 --> 1:45:38.750 if I had a law degree, I would take it 1:45:38.830 --> 1:45:39.969 on just to get that money. 1:45:39.990 --> 1:45:40.650 Yeah. 1:45:41.030 --> 1:45:41.390 Oh, yeah. 1:45:41.450 --> 1:45:44.640 Someone's going to take this on. So, yeah, by all means, 1:45:44.689 --> 1:45:48.100 start a fundraising campaign. Get money out of the pockets 1:45:48.220 --> 1:45:49.680 of the dumbest racists in the world. 1:45:49.700 --> 1:45:50.269 Go for it. 1:45:50.900 --> 1:45:54.140 I should have gone for that law degree. But anyway, 1:45:54.479 --> 1:45:54.760 I think. 1:45:55.290 --> 1:45:58.070 We already discussed solar schools and we're going to be 1:45:58.110 --> 1:46:01.540 discussing more of them. But first, I think the solar 1:46:01.560 --> 1:46:04.400 schools that support this podcast. 1:46:05.280 --> 1:46:06.860 Can I say that? Yeah, I think so. 1:46:06.979 --> 1:46:07.500 You don't work here. 1:46:07.780 --> 1:46:08.139 Perfect. 1:46:19.810 --> 1:46:22.950 And we're back and we're exchanging the soulless ghouls for 1:46:22.979 --> 1:46:27.920 the humanoid husks filled with unending appetite for atrocities. I 1:46:27.960 --> 1:46:30.220 think we said all the nice things about the act itself, 1:46:30.979 --> 1:46:31.900 even though I wish I could have. 1:46:31.880 --> 1:46:32.780 Said less about it. 1:46:33.439 --> 1:46:36.380 Unfortunately, just, this is just the Rivendell stop of our 1:46:36.460 --> 1:46:39.070 quest to destroy the ring. And we have yet to 1:46:39.310 --> 1:46:43.269 meet the spawns that have emerged from Minos, Morgul and Gorgorov. 1:46:43.970 --> 1:46:44.490 Deep cut. 1:46:44.710 --> 1:46:45.030 Yeah. 1:46:45.430 --> 1:46:45.710 Yeah. 1:46:46.050 --> 1:46:49.800 The three people that understand those references, uh, This one's 1:46:49.840 --> 1:46:50.100 for you. 1:46:50.460 --> 1:46:54.740 So first, we have the person you were giggling about, Bollie, 1:46:55.040 --> 1:46:58.940 co-founder and hipster Nazi impersonator Martin Selner. 1:46:58.970 --> 1:47:02.250 I haven't thought about Martin Selner in years. I'm so 1:47:02.290 --> 1:47:03.330 surprised to see him here. 1:47:03.350 --> 1:47:06.590 Who could have imagined that the country who produced the 1:47:06.630 --> 1:47:10.100 most iconic Nazi would once again produce a Nazi? 1:47:10.110 --> 1:47:10.580 The original. 1:47:10.640 --> 1:47:12.020 The original. The original. 1:47:13.080 --> 1:47:15.960 At least it's from the original sourcing material, you know? 1:47:15.979 --> 1:47:19.040 Right, so by under EU laws, he can really be 1:47:19.120 --> 1:47:21.060 a Nazi, right? Because, you know, it's like champagne. 1:47:21.229 --> 1:47:22.509 Sure, yeah, it has to come from. 1:47:22.560 --> 1:47:23.770 It comes from the original source. 1:47:24.070 --> 1:47:24.450 Exactly. 1:47:24.770 --> 1:47:28.229 If it's a Nazi stemming from anywhere in North Austria, 1:47:28.250 --> 1:47:33.290 then we have to call them identitarians. Yep, sparkling identitarianism. Yeah, 1:47:33.330 --> 1:47:36.890 that's the brand distinction. So, Selder seems to have been 1:47:37.110 --> 1:47:39.930 pretty far right all of his life, becoming involved in 1:47:39.970 --> 1:47:43.229 nationalist politics when he was a teenager. And being part 1:47:43.270 --> 1:47:46.690 of the Austrian neo-Nazi scene. So before we get into 1:47:46.710 --> 1:47:49.229 the good stuff, I want to read a small paragraph 1:47:49.270 --> 1:47:53.509 from an article in Zeit Campus. It was published in 1:47:53.510 --> 1:47:58.189 2017 before all the significant shit was released. But I 1:47:58.229 --> 1:48:00.350 had to read this paragraph, so you'll have to listen 1:48:00.390 --> 1:48:03.370 to it. Martin Sellner, who has a bachelor's degree in 1:48:03.410 --> 1:48:06.599 philosophy and dropped out of law school, is something like 1:48:06.610 --> 1:48:10.120 the Justin Bieber and Raynard Langhans of the new right-wing 1:48:10.200 --> 1:48:14.130 radicalism in one person. A handsome young man with neatly 1:48:14.210 --> 1:48:18.020 trimmed hair and a dreamy look, and a creative inventor 1:48:18.090 --> 1:48:22.740 of media effective perhaps even somewhat dangerous protests. 1:48:22.880 --> 1:48:25.689 You know maybe it's I don't know if it's discouraging 1:48:25.750 --> 1:48:27.910 or comforting to know that your press do that, too. 1:48:27.939 --> 1:48:31.160 The European press does that same thing. He's really racist, 1:48:31.200 --> 1:48:33.260 but in like kind of a sexy way. Like, why 1:48:33.280 --> 1:48:37.120 do they do that? What if Hitler was hot? He 1:48:37.200 --> 1:48:39.979 washed his hair and I thought he would be dirty. 1:48:40.620 --> 1:48:43.360 Like, he does look like a hipster. I mean, I'll 1:48:43.400 --> 1:48:44.150 give them that one. 1:48:44.790 --> 1:48:47.350 I mean, it's like that New York Times article. You 1:48:47.590 --> 1:48:50.870 probably remember this, James. It was in 2017 about Tony Hobater, 1:48:51.410 --> 1:48:53.250 one of the second in command of the traditional worker party. 1:48:53.270 --> 1:48:53.809 And it was like, yeah. 1:48:54.310 --> 1:48:56.950 Just going on and on about like how interesting and 1:48:57.100 --> 1:49:00.480 just what this interesting working class man kind of handsome 1:49:00.520 --> 1:49:01.900 like he's a nazi. 1:49:01.820 --> 1:49:05.960 That's a nazi yeah that's yeah this mysterious exotic nazi 1:49:06.400 --> 1:49:08.640 or like the amount of like uh richard spent the 1:49:08.660 --> 1:49:11.280 things but they were like but he wears a waistcoat 1:49:11.620 --> 1:49:14.360 did you know he does his own bow tie that's 1:49:14.420 --> 1:49:17.309 a nazi uh yeah that is a type of article 1:49:17.360 --> 1:49:19.720 that uh It's just like the fentanyl thing. You just 1:49:19.760 --> 1:49:20.769 can't stop people doing it. 1:49:21.060 --> 1:49:24.740 Well, I would be impressed with any two-year-old being able 1:49:24.780 --> 1:49:25.760 to do his own bow tie. 1:49:26.140 --> 1:49:28.940 Actually, I don't think Richard Spencer can tie a bow tie. 1:49:29.360 --> 1:49:29.900 Not anymore. 1:49:30.460 --> 1:49:34.059 Anyway, back to Martin Sellner. At the age of 17, 1:49:34.060 --> 1:49:38.710 he and another person placed stickers on a synagogue in Baden-by-Wien. 1:49:39.689 --> 1:49:43.050 Stickers with the text LEGALIZE IT with the letters AJ 1:49:43.110 --> 1:49:43.450 near it. 1:49:44.110 --> 1:49:48.389 AJ in this case stands for Arische Jugend. Aryan youth. 1:49:49.189 --> 1:49:55.210 And other stickers portrayed as swastika. Wow. That's illegal there. Yes. 1:49:55.250 --> 1:49:57.120 Very state to state. So like in Virginia, it actually 1:49:57.140 --> 1:49:59.080 would be illegal to place a swastika on a synagogue. 1:49:59.100 --> 1:50:02.040 It's a class six felony. But I think in Austria 1:50:02.060 --> 1:50:03.880 and Germany, it's like really illegal. 1:50:04.540 --> 1:50:07.559 In Germany, any form of Nazi glorification. 1:50:08.310 --> 1:50:09.750 You're not supposed to be doing that. They're kind of 1:50:09.790 --> 1:50:10.580 sensitive about it. 1:50:10.790 --> 1:50:12.849 You could probably find it on YouTube, but there's clips 1:50:12.870 --> 1:50:16.110 of people just even for fun, doing like a Roman 1:50:16.150 --> 1:50:17.849 salute in German public and be. 1:50:17.770 --> 1:50:18.540 Arrested for it. 1:50:19.020 --> 1:50:23.139 So, yeah, unfortunately, he was a minor because under European law, 1:50:23.380 --> 1:50:26.479 like 17 years, still a minor. So I think that's 1:50:26.520 --> 1:50:29.269 why he got off pretty scot-free. He had to do like, 1:50:29.280 --> 1:50:31.269 I think, 100 hours of community service. 1:50:31.470 --> 1:50:32.490 And he learned his lesson. 1:50:32.930 --> 1:50:33.210 Yes. 1:50:33.830 --> 1:50:34.110 Right? 1:50:34.390 --> 1:50:36.630 Well, he didn't do anything wrong because this was a 1:50:36.670 --> 1:50:41.030 response to the conviction of David Irving, a British Holocaust denier. 1:50:41.060 --> 1:50:41.140 Yeah. 1:50:42.640 --> 1:50:45.660 Oh, God. There it is. 1:50:47.800 --> 1:50:48.280 There it is. 1:50:48.300 --> 1:50:53.040 For anyone not watching, Molly's almost in tears. 1:50:53.640 --> 1:50:54.060 There it is. 1:50:54.080 --> 1:50:56.660 We're hitting the highlights here, aren't we? 1:50:56.780 --> 1:50:59.420 So he doesn't think the Holocaust happened. Because that's what 1:50:59.439 --> 1:51:00.560 David Irving was in trouble for. 1:51:00.580 --> 1:51:08.550 Yeah, I think Martin has genuine questions about... what happened 1:51:08.590 --> 1:51:11.050 during the Holocaust in the same way that Alex Jones 1:51:11.090 --> 1:51:12.670 had questions about Sandy Hook. 1:51:12.830 --> 1:51:13.890 He's just asking questions. 1:51:14.270 --> 1:51:14.470 Yes. 1:51:14.770 --> 1:51:17.670 Unfortunately, he can't read because those questions have been answered. 1:51:17.710 --> 1:51:21.189 You only need to open your eyes to see the answers. 1:51:21.470 --> 1:51:23.490 He lived in Austria. You could go to one of 1:51:23.530 --> 1:51:24.070 the camps. 1:51:24.290 --> 1:51:29.070 Well, he actually did, Molly, because... Oh, no. At the 1:51:29.090 --> 1:51:30.990 tender age... Yeah, I bet that went well. 1:51:31.010 --> 1:51:33.110 And he behaved very normal there, right? 1:51:33.290 --> 1:51:34.950 Well, it wasn't a camp, but at the age of 19, 1:51:34.930 --> 1:51:40.170 he did help organize ways to hinder liberal demonstrations and 1:51:40.330 --> 1:51:46.880 pilgrimages to Wehrmacht soldiers, brave sites, and hold memorial services 1:51:46.960 --> 1:51:47.360 for them. 1:51:49.120 --> 1:51:49.479 Yes. 1:51:51.240 --> 1:51:54.680 He self-professes that he was a neo-Nazi until 2011. He 1:51:54.720 --> 1:51:56.860 should have been 22 around that time. As of 2017, 1:51:56.840 --> 1:52:04.050 he's also banned from carrying weapons. After an incident where 1:52:04.070 --> 1:52:08.130 he pepper sprayed an alleged far-left activist during a. 1:52:08.130 --> 1:52:11.710 Fight in Vienna. Which is funny because generally carrying weapons 1:52:11.790 --> 1:52:14.290 is already illegal here. Yeah, that's what I was going 1:52:14.310 --> 1:52:19.210 to say. So he double gets to not wear weapons, 1:52:19.570 --> 1:52:20.129 I suppose. 1:52:20.450 --> 1:52:21.670 He would get punished twice. 1:52:22.189 --> 1:52:25.830 Oh, that would be good. Okay, Molly, brace yourself. 1:52:26.560 --> 1:52:34.420 In early 2018, Martin Sellner received around $ 1, 700, € 1, 500, roughly 1:52:34.520 --> 1:52:40.440 from Brenton Tarrant. Brenton Tarrant. 1:52:41.240 --> 1:52:42.019 Received from? 1:52:42.400 --> 1:52:43.759 Yes, received from. 1:52:44.020 --> 1:52:44.540 What year? 1:52:45.160 --> 1:52:46.320 Early 2018. 1:52:46.320 --> 1:52:48.599 So before the Christchurch mosque shooting. 1:52:49.080 --> 1:52:49.340 Yes. 1:52:49.500 --> 1:52:51.240 That's very good. 1:52:52.060 --> 1:52:53.320 Yes, yeah. 1:52:53.360 --> 1:52:58.299 So his ideas about immigration... And presumably Islam were pretty similar, 1:52:58.320 --> 1:53:02.060 I guess. And he was just showing support for a 1:53:02.060 --> 1:53:04.060 guy whose ideas were very similar to his own. And 1:53:05.090 --> 1:53:08.170 Martin is carrying out these same ideas by writing this 1:53:08.189 --> 1:53:10.890 stupid little petition. And what Britton Tarrant did was he 1:53:11.050 --> 1:53:15.390 murdered more than 50 people in two mosques. Yeah, it's... 1:53:15.890 --> 1:53:19.589 Very good. That's a cool friend to have. 1:53:20.030 --> 1:53:23.410 Yeah, it's always a good sign. It gets worse because... 1:53:23.090 --> 1:53:23.990 It gets worse. 1:53:24.729 --> 1:53:28.309 I looked it up, but Apparently, Tarrant was like planning 1:53:28.330 --> 1:53:30.710 this attack for at least two years. 1:53:31.450 --> 1:53:34.900 Self-proclaimed, by the way. So take that however you will. 1:53:35.229 --> 1:53:35.720 But that means. 1:53:35.800 --> 1:53:38.420 So in the planning phases of this mass murder, he thought, 1:53:38.600 --> 1:53:40.260 part of my plan is going to be giving Martin 1:53:40.300 --> 1:53:46.680 Sellner $ 1, 500. 1:53:43.180 --> 1:53:43.460 Yes. 1:53:44.960 --> 1:53:46.080 He should be banned from New Zealand. 1:53:46.700 --> 1:53:48.179 We should exile him to the sun. 1:53:48.479 --> 1:53:50.940 Because New Zealand is pretty sincere about their, about like 1:53:51.140 --> 1:53:54.400 sort of quarantining... the existence of Brenton Tarrant. Like, it's 1:53:54.410 --> 1:53:56.939 illegal to possess his manifesto there. Like, they should ban 1:53:56.979 --> 1:53:58.059 Martin Sellner from the country. 1:53:58.400 --> 1:54:00.759 Tarrant doesn't strike me as a very wealthy person. 1:54:00.800 --> 1:54:02.540 That's a significant amount of money for him. 1:54:02.760 --> 1:54:05.950 Yeah, highly committed to Sellner. It was. 1:54:05.970 --> 1:54:08.150 And it was also, like, a significant amount of money 1:54:08.710 --> 1:54:12.550 for Sellner because most donations were, like, on the high end, like, 1:54:12.550 --> 1:54:14.380 100 to 100 euros. 1:54:14.939 --> 1:54:15.979 That should have been a career ender. 1:54:16.430 --> 1:54:18.650 Like anyone is free to send me money, but if 1:54:18.729 --> 1:54:21.750 someone like this would send me money and I was 1:54:21.790 --> 1:54:25.229 very committed to not being called a Nazi, this would 1:54:25.560 --> 1:54:27.760 be a good time for some introspection. 1:54:27.780 --> 1:54:31.020 Yeah, if somebody who really thinks you're doing a great 1:54:31.100 --> 1:54:34.340 job and you have all the same ideas, but what 1:54:34.380 --> 1:54:36.980 he does with those ideas is one of the largest 1:54:37.620 --> 1:54:39.940 mass murders in recent years. 1:54:40.220 --> 1:54:41.260 Yeah, it's... I don't know. 1:54:41.280 --> 1:54:42.700 I think you got to think about that. I think 1:54:42.720 --> 1:54:43.560 you got to think about that. 1:54:43.780 --> 1:54:48.790 Yeah, yeah. Give you pause for thought. Luckily, Molly, Selner 1:54:48.810 --> 1:54:51.370 did nothing else to further incriminate himself. 1:54:51.910 --> 1:54:53.210 And then he was normal after that, right? 1:54:53.670 --> 1:54:57.170 Yeah, because it's not just this donation that is a 1:54:57.190 --> 1:54:59.590 connection between the two of them. I'm quoting from a 1:54:59.650 --> 1:55:04.170 piece by the Austrian outlet ORF. Selner and Tarrant had 1:55:04.210 --> 1:55:07.610 exchanged praise via email. If you ever come to Vienna, 1:55:07.730 --> 1:55:09.520 we have to go for a coffee or a beer, 1:55:09.600 --> 1:55:12.140 says Selner. The same goes for you if you ever 1:55:12.180 --> 1:55:14.790 come to Australia or New Zealand. We have people in 1:55:14.830 --> 1:55:17.150 both countries who would like to host you in their home, 1:55:17.350 --> 1:55:18.530 the Australian replied. 1:55:19.130 --> 1:55:19.350 We? 1:55:19.930 --> 1:55:25.260 According to ZIB2, the last email exchange took place in 1:55:25.310 --> 1:55:29.900 July 2018. One day later, Tarrant booked vehicles and accommodation 1:55:29.980 --> 1:55:34.280 in Austria. Whether the two actually met each other was, 1:55:34.760 --> 1:55:37.580 according to that article, being investigated at the time. I 1:55:38.520 --> 1:55:43.220 haven't been able to find confirmation because Tarrant is silent. 1:55:42.900 --> 1:55:43.400 On the issue. 1:55:43.670 --> 1:55:46.670 And that was a few months before the Christchurch shooting. 1:55:47.370 --> 1:55:47.730 A year. 1:55:48.150 --> 1:55:49.490 You said it was late 2018? 1:55:49.490 --> 1:55:49.730 Yeah. 1:55:49.750 --> 1:55:51.530 Okay, yeah, like nine months, yeah. 1:55:51.970 --> 1:55:55.010 But anyway, there's a non-zero chance that the two have 1:55:55.050 --> 1:55:58.210 actually shook hands and met. There's no way to confirm 1:55:58.250 --> 1:56:01.490 it unless one of them confirms it, which I don't 1:56:01.520 --> 1:56:02.600 think will happen either way. 1:56:02.900 --> 1:56:08.000 But still, anything short of a vigorous public disavowal is 1:56:08.020 --> 1:56:08.820 very incriminating. 1:56:08.840 --> 1:56:12.200 I don't even think that would be enough. No, it wouldn't. 1:56:12.220 --> 1:56:14.120 It wouldn't be very convincing to me. but he hasn't 1:56:14.140 --> 1:56:14.580 even done it. 1:56:14.760 --> 1:56:14.940 No. 1:56:15.520 --> 1:56:17.860 So this is just further evidence that this petition of 1:56:17.900 --> 1:56:20.190 his is violence. 1:56:20.440 --> 1:56:22.089 Yeah. 1:56:22.320 --> 1:56:25.870 This is on the sort of spectrum of the same 1:56:26.010 --> 1:56:28.590 kind of violence, and it is in furtherance of advancing 1:56:28.610 --> 1:56:30.670 the normalization of that kind of violence. 1:56:31.510 --> 1:56:31.770 Yes. 1:56:31.990 --> 1:56:35.570 And also like different kinds of violence, because even though 1:56:35.590 --> 1:56:40.090 they mentioned like giving people incentives to remigrate, not everyone 1:56:40.150 --> 1:56:40.930 is going to do that. 1:56:41.210 --> 1:56:43.770 There is no peaceful way to create an ethnostate. If 1:56:43.810 --> 1:56:47.770 your goal is an ethnostate, you understand from the outset 1:56:47.810 --> 1:56:51.530 that there will be mass bloodshed because there's no peaceful ethnostate. 1:56:51.630 --> 1:56:54.250 It's never happened and it never will. And they know that. 1:56:54.710 --> 1:56:57.300 And I think it was Heimbach or Spencer who admitted 1:56:57.340 --> 1:57:03.360 to that under oath. During the United Right civil trial, 1:57:03.380 --> 1:57:05.900 they were talking. They're like, so when you say, you know, 1:57:05.920 --> 1:57:07.480 we're going to have a peaceful ethnostate, it must have 1:57:07.500 --> 1:57:10.460 been Heimbach. So I think it was from the TWP charter. 1:57:11.080 --> 1:57:13.380 you know, about creating an ethnostate through peaceful means. And 1:57:13.440 --> 1:57:15.920 he's like, yeah, I know that's not real. 1:57:16.960 --> 1:57:20.870 Yeah, that's not a thing. I mean, like, at least 1:57:21.710 --> 1:57:24.770 Selner is pretty open about this, right? Like, Selner was 1:57:24.850 --> 1:57:28.260 one of the major hosts of the the remigration conference 1:57:28.280 --> 1:57:31.220 that happened in may of this year that was still 1:57:31.240 --> 1:57:34.120 this year right yeah yeah the portugal one in portugal 1:57:34.340 --> 1:57:37.690 yeah like where they explicitly like talked with greg bovino 1:57:37.810 --> 1:57:40.170 about like how they wanted to do this kind of 1:57:40.250 --> 1:57:43.210 shit in europe i i've wrote about this at a 1:57:43.230 --> 1:57:46.070 time but like you can you can see they made 1:57:46.090 --> 1:57:49.400 the regular media stand outside uh and then harass them 1:57:49.420 --> 1:57:51.500 with a drone while they're in the car park ah 1:57:51.740 --> 1:57:55.880 but bovino did do some interviews with some right-wing blogs. 1:57:55.920 --> 1:57:57.560 I think it seems like he did one interview and 1:57:57.600 --> 1:58:00.360 multiple people translated it, because I don't think he was 1:58:00.390 --> 1:58:04.330 talking to Breton nationalists specifically. But you can see them 1:58:04.510 --> 1:58:08.370 openly discussing this. And this is May of 26, right? 1:58:08.410 --> 1:58:10.980 This is renee good and alex pretty have been killed 1:58:11.000 --> 1:58:15.320 a few months before like like this is when ice 1:58:15.680 --> 1:58:19.280 and cbp were doing their violence most openly and you 1:58:19.310 --> 1:58:23.210 can see these people including selma personally like literally clapping 1:58:23.250 --> 1:58:24.810 for this and saying yeah this is what we need 1:58:24.850 --> 1:58:29.680 we need more shit like this it's just disgusting vile 1:58:29.760 --> 1:58:32.060 doesn't begin to cut it really. 1:58:31.880 --> 1:58:34.350 We know what mass deportation looks like there's no way 1:58:34.360 --> 1:58:37.230 to do it peacefully or bloodlessly no yeah. 1:58:37.430 --> 1:58:40.190 But that is like there is an attempt to make 1:58:40.330 --> 1:58:43.830 some sort of veneer possible where that could be if 1:58:43.850 --> 1:58:46.030 you look at like how they phrased everything in. 1:58:45.950 --> 1:58:50.490 The act economic incentives right like fuck you yep i 1:58:50.520 --> 1:58:53.220 looked at this like like like an anthropologist because that 1:58:53.260 --> 1:58:56.950 is one part of my background and Even if you're 1:58:56.970 --> 1:58:59.190 going to say, OK, everyone's going to accept those incentives, 1:58:59.600 --> 1:59:03.120 then we're still talking about people having to move, families 1:59:03.840 --> 1:59:07.760 broken apart, communities broken apart, people having to upend their 1:59:07.800 --> 1:59:11.470 entire lives, including the lives of their children. And why 1:59:11.480 --> 1:59:13.490 did they come here in the first place? What were 1:59:13.510 --> 1:59:16.790 they fleeing that they risked their lives to come here 1:59:16.910 --> 1:59:20.250 in the first place? They're just ignoring like just an 1:59:20.450 --> 1:59:23.380 avalanche of different pieces of structural violence. 1:59:23.400 --> 1:59:23.480 Yeah. 1:59:24.260 --> 1:59:27.060 But that's exactly where I'm getting at. Even if you 1:59:27.100 --> 1:59:31.430 could delude yourself into thinking that these people will leave voluntarily, 1:59:31.440 --> 1:59:35.570 then think of the violence it is in and of 1:59:35.610 --> 1:59:38.930 itself of having to uproot so many lives and start 1:59:39.030 --> 1:59:43.070 all over again from square one at another place. Even 1:59:43.170 --> 1:59:47.490 if no one resisted and everyone accepted that with stoicism, 1:59:47.950 --> 1:59:49.930 it's still an inherently violent act. 1:59:50.490 --> 1:59:50.710 Yeah. 1:59:51.110 --> 1:59:55.960 It tears communities apart. It tears families apart. There's no 1:59:56.000 --> 1:59:59.380 way to do this, which is not deliberately hurting people 1:59:59.920 --> 2:00:02.920 for the crime, in that case, of not being white. Right. 2:00:02.940 --> 2:00:06.820 And they're not just talking about immigrants. They're talking about 2:00:06.860 --> 2:00:09.810 everyone who isn't white because they said legal and illegal immigration. 2:00:09.830 --> 2:00:14.750 They're culturally threatening, culturally disruptive. They're just talking about people 2:00:14.770 --> 2:00:16.790 they don't think belong. And some of those people they 2:00:16.810 --> 2:00:19.210 don't think belong have been here for a very long time. 2:00:19.720 --> 2:00:22.260 Yeah, and they don't belong because of their skin color. 2:00:22.720 --> 2:00:26.640 So there's nowhere to send them back to, even if 2:00:26.660 --> 2:00:28.140 they would agree to your terms. 2:00:28.960 --> 2:00:34.590 Yeah, you can see it in the language of, when 2:00:34.610 --> 2:00:37.070 we were looking at the tour that they did around Europe, 2:00:37.270 --> 2:00:42.310 the open use of the Reconquista language, similar words in 2:00:42.350 --> 2:00:47.230 other Iberian languages, the idea that we will violently expel 2:00:47.270 --> 2:00:51.950 these people crusader style like the the idea that like 2:00:52.310 --> 2:00:56.120 uh spain without islam is not something fundamentally different to 2:00:56.160 --> 2:00:58.220 what it is today right like that that exchange has 2:00:58.260 --> 2:01:01.000 not happened for as long as there has been spain 2:01:01.080 --> 2:01:02.180 and before. 2:01:01.740 --> 2:01:06.240 Right there's no there's no authentic spain to return to 2:01:06.260 --> 2:01:07.580 the thing you're imagining was never. 2:01:07.520 --> 2:01:11.480 Real exactly yeah it's laughable to suggest that like you 2:01:11.520 --> 2:01:14.130 can have some kind of uh like like spain was 2:01:14.190 --> 2:01:18.290 pure christendom and you know it's silly It really bums 2:01:18.350 --> 2:01:19.990 me out to see the fucking, I mean, I know 2:01:20.010 --> 2:01:23.810 that the Catalan right has become particularly relevant and Catalan 2:01:23.850 --> 2:01:27.290 identitarianism is a big fucking problem. But like, it wasn't 2:01:27.330 --> 2:01:30.970 always that way. And it's sad to see, like, I 2:01:31.270 --> 2:01:33.230 think those people have already existed, but they look like 2:01:33.270 --> 2:01:36.360 everywhere else. They're gaining more of a foothold now. Great stuff. 2:01:37.040 --> 2:01:37.220 Yeah. 2:01:37.760 --> 2:01:38.920 Let's go to some funny stuff. 2:01:39.760 --> 2:01:39.920 Yeah. 2:01:40.300 --> 2:01:41.020 Give us the good stuff. 2:01:41.060 --> 2:01:42.360 Yeah. 2:01:42.400 --> 2:01:42.940 We need that. 2:01:43.480 --> 2:01:43.660 Yeah. 2:01:44.380 --> 2:01:46.830 To catch up real quick, like, I think it's safe 2:01:46.870 --> 2:01:51.110 to say that Tarrant wasn't radicalized further during his last 2:01:51.130 --> 2:01:55.390 known contact with Sellner and the day he committed his atrocities. 2:01:55.430 --> 2:01:55.690 Yeah. 2:01:56.130 --> 2:01:59.130 Like if you're European and there's someone in your orbit 2:01:59.650 --> 2:02:03.430 who thinks positively of the Save Europe Act, highlight this part. 2:02:03.750 --> 2:02:07.730 Because two weeks after the shooting of the Christchurch, the 2:02:07.810 --> 2:02:11.450 Austrian police raided Martin Sellner's house due to his connections 2:02:11.490 --> 2:02:12.030 with Tarrant. 2:02:12.250 --> 2:02:12.350 Good. 2:02:12.750 --> 2:02:13.050 However. 2:02:13.600 --> 2:02:17.940 The police waited 12 minutes before Selner opened the door. 2:02:18.740 --> 2:02:21.380 They were knocking at his door for 12 minutes. There 2:02:21.440 --> 2:02:24.720 is suspicion that he was warned beforehand about the impending raid, 2:02:25.280 --> 2:02:29.440 as during those 12 minutes, he was deleting emails, screenshots, 2:02:29.510 --> 2:02:32.210 and other proofs of his connection with Tarrant. 2:02:32.600 --> 2:02:35.080 And they don't have subpoena power to get those emails 2:02:35.120 --> 2:02:38.060 from somewhere else? Like deleting an email doesn't make it gone. 2:02:38.080 --> 2:02:39.780 It doesn't disappear, yeah. 2:02:39.850 --> 2:02:42.370 And honestly, at that point, deleting the email, you should 2:02:42.390 --> 2:02:43.950 have been charged with destruction of evidence. 2:02:44.130 --> 2:02:45.790 Yeah, if the cops are literally knocking on your door 2:02:45.810 --> 2:02:49.470 and you're deleting emails, A, those emails aren't disappearing. 2:02:49.510 --> 2:02:50.750 In America, they charge you with that. 2:02:51.130 --> 2:02:53.110 Well, in America, they wouldn't wait 12 minutes. 2:02:53.270 --> 2:02:54.790 No, they wouldn't knock. 2:02:54.810 --> 2:02:56.830 Yeah, your door wouldn't be a door anymore. 2:02:57.510 --> 2:03:00.170 You would wake up at 3.45 a.m. and they would 2:03:00.210 --> 2:03:02.070 already be having your computer in their hands. 2:03:03.340 --> 2:03:04.820 Are you sure? Because he is white. 2:03:05.620 --> 2:03:06.140 I don't know. 2:03:06.320 --> 2:03:07.860 A warrant like this, I think they would do a 2:03:07.860 --> 2:03:08.280 4 a.m. 2:03:08.320 --> 2:03:08.720 No-knock. 2:03:09.360 --> 2:03:09.460 Ah. 2:03:10.260 --> 2:03:12.440 Cops... They love the 4 a.m. 2:03:12.480 --> 2:03:12.959 No-knock. 2:03:13.000 --> 2:03:13.760 Okay. Yeah. 2:03:14.640 --> 2:03:16.360 I guess they probably don't do that in Europe because 2:03:16.400 --> 2:03:18.640 not everyone has guns. That's why they do it in America, 2:03:18.660 --> 2:03:19.440 because everyone has guns. 2:03:20.300 --> 2:03:20.500 Yeah. 2:03:21.420 --> 2:03:23.780 Well, they do it because they enjoy doing it. 2:03:24.060 --> 2:03:25.580 But they say it's because we all have guns. 2:03:26.000 --> 2:03:29.850 Guns provide them with a justification, yeah. I'm sure it's 2:03:29.970 --> 2:03:31.110 part of the reason. 2:03:31.680 --> 2:03:35.960 But there was an investigation within the Austrian Justice Department 2:03:36.000 --> 2:03:38.140 to see if they could find out who it was 2:03:38.160 --> 2:03:40.960 that tipped him off, because it can be a coincidence 2:03:40.980 --> 2:03:44.020 that the very same day he was deleting all that shit. 2:03:44.360 --> 2:03:46.540 And did they not subpoena the emails from the provider? 2:03:46.560 --> 2:03:47.940 Because you can get those. 2:03:48.440 --> 2:03:49.120 They're not gone. 2:03:49.140 --> 2:03:52.820 I haven't read about that. It didn't come up in 2:03:52.860 --> 2:03:56.510 what I saw. I'm not sure. Around the same time, though, 2:03:56.870 --> 2:03:58.710 his travel permit to the U.S. 2:03:58.750 --> 2:03:59.430 Was canceled. 2:04:00.170 --> 2:04:03.150 And therefore he could not meet with his fiancée, Brittany Pettibone. 2:04:03.410 --> 2:04:04.089 That's right. 2:04:04.410 --> 2:04:06.930 Yeah. They're married. They're married. They have a child. 2:04:06.970 --> 2:04:09.590 He's married to an American far-right conspiracy theorist. 2:04:09.650 --> 2:04:10.290 Yeah. 2:04:10.450 --> 2:04:10.970 I didn't know that. 2:04:11.030 --> 2:04:14.150 Yeah, white nationalist and conspiracy theorist. 2:04:14.690 --> 2:04:19.190 Also does some Treadwife content, because, of course... Well, what 2:04:19.220 --> 2:04:20.780 else would she do now? Of course, yeah. 2:04:20.800 --> 2:04:22.080 All their avenues are closed. 2:04:22.360 --> 2:04:22.560 Yeah. 2:04:23.040 --> 2:04:25.540 And, oh, I forgot this bit. I think this might 2:04:25.580 --> 2:04:28.800 also help you understand, Molly. Later in 2019, then. 2:04:30.340 --> 2:04:34.520 Austrian police expanded the searches of Selner's property. However, Selner 2:04:34.600 --> 2:04:37.730 did file several complaints and a judge ruled that multiple 2:04:37.790 --> 2:04:40.790 actions taken by Austrian authorities were deemed to be unlawful. 2:04:41.250 --> 2:04:43.090 Oh, that's right. You guys have like civil rights and stuff. 2:04:43.210 --> 2:04:49.220 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And look what it got us. Maybe 2:04:49.260 --> 2:04:51.920 the Safe Europe Act isn't so bad after all. Maybe 2:04:51.960 --> 2:04:53.920 we need to get less civil rights. 2:04:54.520 --> 2:04:55.480 I'm not signing on to that. 2:04:55.840 --> 2:04:58.790 I can't help but be cynical. Well, to sum up 2:04:58.850 --> 2:05:03.320 everything about Martin Sellner, uncool person, would not have a 2:05:03.340 --> 2:05:03.780 beer with him. 2:05:04.560 --> 2:05:06.860 I know. And this is like if Richard Spencer was 2:05:06.900 --> 2:05:09.000 trying to get a constitutional amendment passed. 2:05:09.220 --> 2:05:09.520 Yeah. 2:05:09.780 --> 2:05:11.900 You don't have to look further into it. You're like, oh, 2:05:11.940 --> 2:05:14.260 that's some like dumb Nazi stuff. This is like a 2:05:14.300 --> 2:05:16.690 washed up Nazi from 10 years ago trying to get 2:05:16.730 --> 2:05:18.970 back in the news by doing some more dumb Nazi stuff. Like, 2:05:19.310 --> 2:05:21.230 you don't need to take it seriously. I mean, I 2:05:21.250 --> 2:05:23.350 need to take it seriously on a broader scale. I mean, 2:05:23.370 --> 2:05:26.010 you don't need to engage seriously in the text of 2:05:26.050 --> 2:05:30.110 the petition because it is not sincere. But like, as 2:05:30.230 --> 2:05:31.970 soon as I saw his name, I was like, oh, 2:05:31.980 --> 2:05:33.420 that's a washed up Nazi from 10 years ago. 2:05:34.270 --> 2:05:37.140 He's not washed up anymore. He's been trying very hard 2:05:37.180 --> 2:05:41.020 with this re-migration stuff to like, to like glom on 2:05:41.140 --> 2:05:43.360 to this sort of Trumpist. 2:05:44.040 --> 2:05:46.660 Like this is a known quantity. This isn't a mystery. 2:05:46.880 --> 2:05:47.270 Yeah. 2:05:47.360 --> 2:05:47.600 Yeah. 2:05:47.620 --> 2:05:49.390 I mean, yeah, we're not like, oh, this guy has 2:05:49.430 --> 2:05:51.890 some real concerns about his community and neighborhood. 2:05:51.990 --> 2:05:52.130 No. 2:05:52.210 --> 2:05:54.450 And this man is engaging with the political process in 2:05:54.470 --> 2:05:56.530 a sincere and earnest way. No, it's a Nazi. 2:05:56.570 --> 2:05:56.670 Yeah. 2:05:57.110 --> 2:05:57.250 Yeah. 2:05:58.250 --> 2:06:00.510 Even though he says, like, he might have not been 2:06:00.550 --> 2:06:03.310 a neo-Nazi if the identitarian movement had existed when he 2:06:03.350 --> 2:06:05.630 was younger. I don't believe that. 2:06:05.990 --> 2:06:09.610 The identitarians are white supremacist fascist movement. 2:06:09.760 --> 2:06:12.160 I love that. If we'd had another thing to call 2:06:12.200 --> 2:06:14.680 my Nazism, I wouldn't have done the Nazi shit because 2:06:14.740 --> 2:06:17.560 that's explicitly illegal. Yeah. 2:06:17.800 --> 2:06:19.920 Yeah, that swastika stuff I used to be into, I 2:06:19.940 --> 2:06:21.930 still believe all the same stuff, but I wouldn't have 2:06:21.940 --> 2:06:24.110 used the embarrassing branding if I'd been smarter. 2:06:24.530 --> 2:06:24.950 Yeah. 2:06:25.210 --> 2:06:26.550 Fuck off. Yeah. 2:06:27.130 --> 2:06:30.820 And after this, we're going to speak of the fascist counterpart, 2:06:30.860 --> 2:06:34.560 the fascist Barbie doll, Eva Laerdingerbroek. 2:06:34.660 --> 2:06:51.410 Oh, great. Or Eva Heidrich, if that's easier on the tongue. Hi, everyone. 2:06:51.430 --> 2:06:54.210 This is future Mick. 2:06:55.420 --> 2:06:59.140 Adding some stuff for less future Mick, who you'll be 2:06:59.180 --> 2:07:03.260 hearing most of during the podcast. This episode took a 2:07:03.300 --> 2:07:05.790 pretty long while. I'm not sure how long it will 2:07:05.830 --> 2:07:09.090 be in post-production, but for my own recording, we talked 2:07:09.130 --> 2:07:12.810 for almost three hours, which is a lot. Therefore, this 2:07:12.850 --> 2:07:16.300 episode will be cut into multiple pieces. Make sure to 2:07:16.340 --> 2:07:20.660 start at part one. I'm sorry for any awkward breaks 2:07:20.980 --> 2:07:24.860 in the post-production, but... It was very hard to keep that. 2:07:24.760 --> 2:07:27.390 In mind while we were recording. Hope you enjoy it. 2:07:30.500 --> 2:07:33.060 And we're back. And we're going to speak of the 2:07:33.100 --> 2:07:34.840 fascist Barbie doll that Molly. 2:07:34.560 --> 2:07:35.380 Knows nothing about. 2:07:36.460 --> 2:07:37.140 Say the name again. 2:07:37.160 --> 2:07:39.680 Eva Vlaardingerbroek. 2:07:40.220 --> 2:07:42.400 Yeah, the American mouth simply can't make those sounds. 2:07:42.420 --> 2:07:44.620 Eva Heidrich. You can do that. 2:07:45.920 --> 2:07:48.980 Because, you know, we already compared it to the Nuremberg Law. 2:07:49.020 --> 2:07:51.320 So we might as well drag the Heidrich and the 2:07:51.360 --> 2:07:54.590 Wannsee conference in it as well. So I wouldn't be 2:07:54.630 --> 2:07:56.950 surprised if this was written at a lake house somewhere. 2:07:57.670 --> 2:08:02.600 So Eva Vlaringenbroek is this. shield maiden of the far right. 2:08:03.060 --> 2:08:05.700 That's an actual title she uses in her Twitter bio. 2:08:07.300 --> 2:08:07.640 Great. 2:08:08.360 --> 2:08:08.980 That sucks. 2:08:09.760 --> 2:08:12.560 It was used as an insult by a columnist and 2:08:12.620 --> 2:08:15.420 she cleverly adopted it into her brand. 2:08:16.000 --> 2:08:19.100 That's not a very good insult. Like, of course she 2:08:19.140 --> 2:08:19.740 liked that. 2:08:20.300 --> 2:08:22.080 Yeah, yeah, you're giving her what she wants. 2:08:22.780 --> 2:08:27.180 I'm not going to defend our columnist, ever. I should 2:08:27.220 --> 2:08:30.840 note that she is significantly more, like, clean than our 2:08:30.880 --> 2:08:31.839 boy Martin Sellner. 2:08:31.860 --> 2:08:33.900 No swastika-related arrests? 2:08:34.160 --> 2:08:35.980 Exactly. Exactly. 2:08:36.360 --> 2:08:40.620 Or, like, any ties to neo-Nazis or figures as unsavory as. 2:08:40.580 --> 2:08:41.900 The Christchurch shooter. 2:08:42.340 --> 2:08:43.040 That we know about. 2:08:43.360 --> 2:08:44.220 That we know about. 2:08:44.900 --> 2:08:48.290 She does have a master's in encyclopedia and philosophy of law. 2:08:49.160 --> 2:08:51.040 During her studies, she became more. 2:08:50.940 --> 2:08:55.940 Active with the Dutch conspiracy slash fascist party Forum for Democracy. 2:08:56.830 --> 2:08:59.510 With them, she also partook in an internship at their 2:08:59.630 --> 2:09:03.170 faction in Brussels. After that, she worked as a lecturer, 2:09:03.730 --> 2:09:06.010 which she later gave up to join the Dutch parliament 2:09:06.390 --> 2:09:09.890 as a member of said fascist party. She would later 2:09:09.970 --> 2:09:13.370 quit this after a political fallout with party leader Thierry 2:09:13.470 --> 2:09:17.130 Baudet and the League of Group Chats of their youth party, 2:09:17.170 --> 2:09:20.130 which were distasteful, to say the least. 2:09:20.850 --> 2:09:25.480 To women, to minorities. I don't need to explain how 2:09:25.500 --> 2:09:28.140 this group chat looked like. You can make an educated 2:09:28.160 --> 2:09:29.260 guess and be correct. 2:09:29.700 --> 2:09:33.080 I mean, any time the group chat to a right 2:09:33.280 --> 2:09:35.480 party youth group get leaked, it's not going to be 2:09:35.520 --> 2:09:36.240 wholesome shit. 2:09:36.300 --> 2:09:36.800 Is it? 2:09:36.840 --> 2:09:38.420 No, that happens here every now and again. We know 2:09:38.440 --> 2:09:39.080 what those look like. 2:09:39.140 --> 2:09:43.400 It happens everywhere. Don't be in chats at all. 2:09:43.540 --> 2:09:45.260 Don't do it. 2:09:45.320 --> 2:09:46.220 A small detour. 2:09:46.660 --> 2:09:48.920 A few months ago, there was like on the subreddit, 2:09:49.280 --> 2:09:52.420 a discussion on which Dutch bastard should be covered. And 2:09:52.480 --> 2:09:54.060 everyone said it should be Geert Wilders. 2:09:54.820 --> 2:09:55.690 Okay. 2:09:55.730 --> 2:09:56.440 That was what name? 2:09:56.510 --> 2:09:57.610 Geert Wilders. 2:09:58.270 --> 2:09:59.310 That's how you say that? 2:09:59.710 --> 2:10:03.950 Yes. Yeah. Go give it a cry, Molly. Go see 2:10:03.970 --> 2:10:05.230 where you, where were you at with it? 2:10:05.250 --> 2:10:05.370 No. 2:10:05.680 --> 2:10:07.180 Okay. We've lost Molly. 2:10:07.600 --> 2:10:12.270 But anyway, like, I strongly disagree with that because Wilders 2:10:12.310 --> 2:10:15.070 is also like an overt fascist, but he's not funny. 2:10:15.390 --> 2:10:18.070 Like there's no funny behind the bastards to do about it. 2:10:18.550 --> 2:10:20.910 Sometimes there's no jokes you could make about the fascist. 2:10:21.110 --> 2:10:21.290 No. 2:10:21.970 --> 2:10:24.680 Yeah. I mean, the comedy about him lends itself to 2:10:24.720 --> 2:10:25.720 a visual medium. 2:10:26.660 --> 2:10:26.840 Yeah. 2:10:26.900 --> 2:10:29.140 That's what I will say. He looks like Sonic the 2:10:29.180 --> 2:10:30.020 fucking hedgehog. 2:10:30.200 --> 2:10:30.340 Yeah. 2:10:30.780 --> 2:10:33.700 But Cherry Mother is really funny. Like he's also a fascist, 2:10:33.760 --> 2:10:36.970 but he was assaulted in public multiple times. He was 2:10:37.010 --> 2:10:38.470 hit in the face with an umbrella. 2:10:38.490 --> 2:10:38.570 Yeah. 2:10:39.760 --> 2:10:44.350 That's a European way of going about it. I respect that. Yeah, 2:10:44.450 --> 2:10:46.290 I think it was a Ukrainian national. 2:10:46.310 --> 2:10:47.970 They don't have guns. They have to be creative. 2:10:47.990 --> 2:10:52.500 It was caught on tape. So that's really funny. You 2:10:52.520 --> 2:10:55.920 can make a more funny episode about him. He had 2:10:55.960 --> 2:10:59.660 a motion in our parliament for the humane treatment of 2:10:59.840 --> 2:11:02.130 Andrew Tate when he was arrested in Romania. 2:11:02.150 --> 2:11:04.540 Yeah. Okay. 2:11:04.840 --> 2:11:07.620 Because he's always been, I'm sure, a passionate defender of 2:11:07.690 --> 2:11:10.730 prisoner civil rights, right? That's something he's always been interested in. 2:11:11.010 --> 2:11:13.830 Loves to advocate. He was also very passionate about consent, 2:11:13.850 --> 2:11:16.290 saying that when women say no, they actually want you 2:11:16.350 --> 2:11:17.110 to go on. 2:11:17.330 --> 2:11:17.710 Oh, dear. 2:11:18.030 --> 2:11:20.850 Also on camera. So, great figure. 2:11:21.130 --> 2:11:24.910 Anyway, details aside, during the waves, this fallout between Ava 2:11:24.980 --> 2:11:29.500 and Baudet was caused. He would retaliate by repeatedly mentioning 2:11:29.540 --> 2:11:33.460 their relationship publicly. which forced her hand to denounce it 2:11:33.560 --> 2:11:36.400 as being just a few dates after which their fling ended. 2:11:36.420 --> 2:11:41.540 Eva would later tell Das Telegraf, Cherry knew how scared 2:11:41.580 --> 2:11:43.770 I was of this coming out. If it gets out, 2:11:44.010 --> 2:11:47.290 you don't owe anything you've achieved to yourself. What I 2:11:47.330 --> 2:11:50.550 feared happened. I was the resentful ex, and even more 2:11:50.610 --> 2:11:52.610 blatant sexist remarks poured in. 2:11:53.510 --> 2:11:56.720 Oh no. Did she not know sexism could happen to her? 2:11:56.740 --> 2:11:59.860 This happens to far-right influencers all the time. Like, it 2:11:59.880 --> 2:12:02.890 happened to Lauren Southern, and maybe Brittany Pettibone too, but 2:12:02.930 --> 2:12:05.890 like these women in this movement, they're like, I didn't 2:12:05.910 --> 2:12:08.550 know they were going to be sexist to me. Girl, 2:12:08.570 --> 2:12:09.610 you're at a Nazi party. 2:12:10.030 --> 2:12:13.250 Maybe I'm giving her too much sympathy, but. 2:12:13.610 --> 2:12:14.760 You are. Probably. 2:12:15.180 --> 2:12:17.740 But like this entire piece is heavily colored by my 2:12:17.780 --> 2:12:19.920 own opinion, but I'm also trying to sometimes be a 2:12:19.960 --> 2:12:23.940 bit more distant with it. But clearly she received some 2:12:23.960 --> 2:12:27.480 pretty harsh comments that were dripping with sexism during the fallout. 2:12:27.580 --> 2:12:29.600 No doubt that she did. I'm not saying that's good 2:12:29.620 --> 2:12:32.520 or that it's acceptable, but like, What did you think 2:12:32.580 --> 2:12:35.320 would happen when you laid down with dogs? 2:12:35.440 --> 2:12:38.440 That is very fair, but I also want to say 2:12:38.860 --> 2:12:40.270 her womanhood was very. 2:12:40.350 --> 2:12:42.650 I just want to exterminate people I don't like. I 2:12:42.690 --> 2:12:45.010 didn't know anyone would be mean to me. I guess 2:12:45.030 --> 2:12:45.550 I'm just mean. 2:12:46.950 --> 2:12:48.010 Your words, not mine. 2:12:49.810 --> 2:12:53.580 I'm still trying to have a... For this specific instance, 2:12:53.620 --> 2:12:58.060 have some sort of sympathy for her because... Her relationship 2:12:58.120 --> 2:13:01.350 and her womanhood were essentially, like, weaponized against her in 2:13:01.390 --> 2:13:03.370 a way to incite that sexism. 2:13:04.230 --> 2:13:06.970 And she would know nothing about weaponizing people's identities against 2:13:07.010 --> 2:13:09.390 them to produce any kind of violent result? 2:13:09.510 --> 2:13:12.630 No, like, she's a horrible person with horrible politics. Like, 2:13:12.730 --> 2:13:13.970 I'm not denying any of that, but. 2:13:14.010 --> 2:13:15.690 No, I'm not saying it's good or acceptable that these 2:13:15.710 --> 2:13:18.840 things happen to these women. It's just, like, what... Do 2:13:18.860 --> 2:13:22.400 you not see that that's what you're doing to others? 2:13:22.520 --> 2:13:25.580 I think there isn't enough introspection for that, but. 2:13:26.180 --> 2:13:27.320 No, there's not, no. 2:13:27.440 --> 2:13:28.220 Yeah, no. 2:13:28.560 --> 2:13:30.460 Well, no, because they think that bad things should not 2:13:30.500 --> 2:13:33.780 happen to them because they're fully human and the people 2:13:33.800 --> 2:13:34.760 they're doing it to aren't. 2:13:35.640 --> 2:13:38.210 Right. Like, if you're going to draw lines around humanity, 2:13:38.230 --> 2:13:40.950 don't find yourself surprised when the line is drawn and 2:13:40.990 --> 2:13:41.890 you're on the other side of it. 2:13:42.490 --> 2:13:45.570 And, like, the underpinning of so many of these ideas 2:13:46.910 --> 2:13:49.850 heavily relies on misogyny, too. Like, you know, you're not 2:13:49.870 --> 2:13:52.450 just going to do fascism and white supremacy and xenophobia 2:13:52.800 --> 2:13:56.280 and immigration restriction without... Those guys are misogynists too, babe. 2:13:56.760 --> 2:13:57.840 That's very true. 2:13:58.540 --> 2:14:01.480 I think I was mostly just trying to find my 2:14:01.560 --> 2:14:05.500 own moral line in there. Like, two horrible people, but still, 2:14:05.560 --> 2:14:05.780 I would. 2:14:06.720 --> 2:14:07.250 Somewhere... Nah. 2:14:08.550 --> 2:14:09.950 I'm just always surprised they're surprised. 2:14:11.010 --> 2:14:14.270 It's the line, I couldn't believe the leopards eating my 2:14:14.330 --> 2:14:19.050 face happened after voting for the leopards eating faces party. 2:14:19.210 --> 2:14:21.830 For instance, the way I still think it's fucked up 2:14:21.980 --> 2:14:25.440 that it happened that way to her. And maybe sympathy 2:14:25.500 --> 2:14:28.560 is going too far, but I think that's for each 2:14:28.580 --> 2:14:32.420 to their own to decide upon. But to go back 2:14:32.460 --> 2:14:35.980 more to funnier stuff, my first breakthrough in political activism 2:14:36.020 --> 2:14:39.790 was in December of 2019, when the Dutch newspaper Het 2:14:39.850 --> 2:14:45.190 Parool published that opinion piece that we mentioned earlier, criticizing 2:14:45.230 --> 2:14:48.670 her anti-feminist speech at the Forum for Democracy Party Congress. 2:14:49.270 --> 2:14:51.690 Her disdain for modern feminism could also be seen in 2:14:51.730 --> 2:14:55.710 her master thesis titled The contractualization of sex in the 2:14:55.750 --> 2:14:56.470 Me Too era. 2:14:56.670 --> 2:14:59.850 If you think feminism is damaging to society, why do 2:14:59.890 --> 2:15:02.310 you think you deserve the benefits of feminism? 2:15:04.410 --> 2:15:04.910 Because. 2:15:05.930 --> 2:15:06.450 Because. 2:15:06.970 --> 2:15:07.470 Probably. 2:15:07.490 --> 2:15:11.750 And this is where she gets funny again a bit. 2:15:12.210 --> 2:15:15.680 Because unfortunately, I couldn't find her full thesis because I 2:15:15.720 --> 2:15:18.940 had looked for it. I was curious because she completed 2:15:18.960 --> 2:15:20.780 it with honors. So I was like, okay, I want 2:15:20.820 --> 2:15:22.100 to know what this looks like. 2:15:22.120 --> 2:15:22.620 Maybe it's good. 2:15:23.080 --> 2:15:24.340 Change my mind, Eva. 2:15:24.480 --> 2:15:27.940 Yeah, share it on Twitter. She did, however, post an 2:15:27.980 --> 2:15:31.440 essay in English on her Twitter account, which drew heavily 2:15:31.720 --> 2:15:35.970 on her thesis. And to be a bit fair and balanced, 2:15:36.530 --> 2:15:37.490 it's not horrible. 2:15:37.870 --> 2:15:40.010 I'll be the judge of that. Let me see it. 2:15:40.450 --> 2:15:43.710 Well, for the most part, it's just concerns about a social. 2:15:45.280 --> 2:15:48.320 structure such as consent being codified into. 2:15:48.120 --> 2:15:50.370 Law so she's saying rape should be legal. 2:15:50.350 --> 2:15:53.930 That that's not what she is explicitly saying but she 2:15:53.950 --> 2:15:57.450 does seem to see consent as exclusively like a contract 2:15:57.490 --> 2:15:59.650 between two people rather than like an. 2:15:59.650 --> 2:16:02.610 Agreement i mean their petition is explicitly saying something very 2:16:02.670 --> 2:16:04.570 different than what it actually means i don't think we 2:16:04.590 --> 2:16:07.390 have to take these people at their word oh yeah 2:16:07.990 --> 2:16:11.190 i'm not gonna take a fascist at her word that's 2:16:11.230 --> 2:16:12.750 not what i'm in the business of doing. 2:16:13.030 --> 2:16:16.670 Now I'm feeling like I'm very uncritical. 2:16:16.690 --> 2:16:19.190 No, you're just much nicer than I am. 2:16:19.810 --> 2:16:21.300 Again, your words. 2:16:22.080 --> 2:16:24.100 And you live in a country with much stricter libel laws. 2:16:24.980 --> 2:16:26.740 That's also true. 2:16:27.040 --> 2:16:30.620 I think there should be room for good faith debate 2:16:30.780 --> 2:16:34.279 on this codification into law and possible side effects. 2:16:34.300 --> 2:16:35.379 Sure, but she doesn't. 2:16:35.400 --> 2:16:37.080 No, no, she absolutely doesn't. 2:16:38.100 --> 2:16:41.320 The existence of good faith debate Sure, I'll concede to that. 2:16:41.379 --> 2:16:43.440 We can have a good faith debate on the legal 2:16:43.580 --> 2:16:47.360 structure of consent. I wouldn't say there should be no 2:16:47.410 --> 2:16:49.850 legal structure for it because that just means rape is legal. 2:16:50.470 --> 2:16:52.770 But the thing is, is I'm not going to engage 2:16:52.810 --> 2:16:55.210 in a good faith debate with her because she isn't. 2:16:55.790 --> 2:16:58.430 Because she isn't and she knows it. And so by 2:16:58.490 --> 2:17:02.769 allowing room for good faith debate with people like Eva 2:17:02.790 --> 2:17:07.060 for blah, blah, blah, blah, You are opening the door 2:17:07.760 --> 2:17:11.459 for this, right? You are making room for her bad 2:17:11.500 --> 2:17:15.019 faith argument that is essentially just rape should be legal, 2:17:15.500 --> 2:17:17.060 but it shouldn't happen to nice girls like me. 2:17:17.120 --> 2:17:17.440 Okay. 2:17:17.760 --> 2:17:21.810 Well, yeah. It's not bad faith. It ends in bad shit. 2:17:21.870 --> 2:17:22.570 No, it's bad faith. 2:17:22.730 --> 2:17:25.330 It is. It is explicitly in bad faith. 2:17:25.350 --> 2:17:29.720 Molly, hold your horses because I've got here like the 2:17:29.770 --> 2:17:33.000 last one and a half paragraphs of that piece. As 2:17:33.120 --> 2:17:36.560 kind as I was for like the preceding paragraphs, I'm 2:17:36.580 --> 2:17:38.320 going to be as blunt about the last one. 2:17:38.840 --> 2:17:40.640 It's absolute bonkers. 2:17:41.180 --> 2:17:42.080 I'm looking forward to it. 2:17:42.600 --> 2:17:44.959 This is not like even going from zero to a hundred. 2:17:45.000 --> 2:17:45.310 This is. 2:17:45.980 --> 2:17:48.990 zero to a thousand in the span of a couple sentences. 2:17:49.810 --> 2:17:52.850 Quoting this from her essay, which was posted on Twitter 2:17:53.410 --> 2:17:57.109 on April 29th, 2026, for those who want to see 2:17:57.150 --> 2:18:00.709 it for themselves. To compensate for the legal uncertainty this 2:18:00.770 --> 2:18:03.920 law will create, people will seek refuge in contracts, which 2:18:03.950 --> 2:18:06.800 can now simply be downloaded via mobile apps such as 2:18:07.060 --> 2:18:11.050 LegalFling and have a direct legal effect. Although the desire 2:18:11.070 --> 2:18:14.090 to create a consent culture may stem from good intentions, 2:18:14.590 --> 2:18:18.170 this consent culture has unforeseen consequences that pose a danger 2:18:18.209 --> 2:18:19.570 to romance and freedom. 2:18:19.970 --> 2:18:23.529 Oh, fuck off. Okay. Always interesting to see what the 2:18:23.570 --> 2:18:29.790 libertarians want. I'm using libertarian in the American sense here, right? 2:18:29.910 --> 2:18:34.029 Want the states to not take an interest in. This 2:18:34.090 --> 2:18:36.250 same person who wants the state to take an interest 2:18:36.290 --> 2:18:40.310 in tearing people's lives apart. doesn't think the state belongs 2:18:40.470 --> 2:18:42.629 in determining what is and is not consent because we 2:18:42.670 --> 2:18:46.110 have an app for that. Fuck off. James, I'll heavily 2:18:46.129 --> 2:18:47.070 disagree with you here. 2:18:47.450 --> 2:18:50.390 Nothing is more romantic than when I want to engage 2:18:50.490 --> 2:18:54.510 in some adult fun with a partner than having an 2:18:54.730 --> 2:18:57.770 app to sign a literal contract on what is and 2:18:57.830 --> 2:18:58.820 isn't acceptable. 2:18:59.080 --> 2:19:02.240 You know AI drafts a contract. You know chat GPT 2:19:02.260 --> 2:19:04.099 is getting up in there and putting some weird shit 2:19:04.120 --> 2:19:04.940 in your contract. 2:19:05.060 --> 2:19:06.560 And this is such a tired thing. 2:19:06.600 --> 2:19:06.810 Like, I. 2:19:07.310 --> 2:19:08.850 you know, showing my age here, but when I was 2:19:08.870 --> 2:19:11.769 in college 20 years ago and we had these, you know, 2:19:11.850 --> 2:19:15.290 mandatory trainings on like, what is consent? Like, don't get 2:19:15.350 --> 2:19:18.529 raped at a party. And guys would say, like these 2:19:18.530 --> 2:19:20.379 18 year old guys would say shit like, oh, I'm 2:19:20.400 --> 2:19:24.030 going to have her sign a contract. This is like tired, 2:19:24.350 --> 2:19:27.060 dumb shit that guys who rape people say. 2:19:27.080 --> 2:19:30.920 I wasn't even done, but I'm glad for your passion, Molly. 2:19:30.959 --> 2:19:31.780 Okay, carry on. 2:19:32.300 --> 2:19:34.920 Suppose such a contract is signed. How do we know 2:19:34.980 --> 2:19:37.709 for certain that it was not signed under coercion? or, 2:19:37.770 --> 2:19:40.890 for example, under the influence of alcohol and or drugs? 2:19:41.470 --> 2:19:42.770 And what if a woman signs that. 2:19:42.850 --> 2:19:46.980 Right, those are the same questions about consent we already have. Coercion, alcohol. 2:19:47.420 --> 2:19:49.279 Yeah, but now we have an app. But now there's 2:19:49.300 --> 2:19:52.900 an app. Yeah, so then to solve all of those questions, right? 2:19:52.920 --> 2:19:55.820 Yeah, now it's about the legality of such a contract 2:19:55.860 --> 2:19:57.340 instead of the legality of. 2:19:57.480 --> 2:19:59.100 Instead of the legality of rape. 2:19:59.700 --> 2:20:02.840 Yeah, you've made a get out of jail free card app. 2:20:03.260 --> 2:20:05.759 That's what she seems to think. That's literally the phrase 2:20:05.800 --> 2:20:08.800 she uses. What if a woman signs at 11 p.m. 2:20:08.840 --> 2:20:12.350 but changes her mind at 11.10 p.m. and her partner 2:20:12.450 --> 2:20:14.629 acts in bad faith? Then he rapes her and he 2:20:14.650 --> 2:20:17.369 has a get out of jail free card. After all, 2:20:17.790 --> 2:20:22.470 she signed a contract, so no one will believe her anymore, right? Oh, wait, 2:20:22.490 --> 2:20:25.080 so she's not proposing the app contract. No, no, no. 2:20:25.459 --> 2:20:26.560 She's saying it wouldn't work. 2:20:27.020 --> 2:20:28.080 Oh, my apologies. 2:20:28.400 --> 2:20:30.460 So she's saying there just should be no legal concept 2:20:30.500 --> 2:20:31.560 of consent at all. 2:20:31.660 --> 2:20:34.560 She's just against the concept of consent. I mean, one 2:20:34.620 --> 2:20:38.009 consent can be withdrawn. It's like it's not the fucking 2:20:38.070 --> 2:20:42.320 like end game argument that. a 12-year-old Reddit user might 2:20:42.360 --> 2:20:44.440 think it is. Like, I was still not done with this. 2:20:44.459 --> 2:20:45.920 This is an essay a moron would write. 2:20:46.020 --> 2:20:49.450 Oh, oh, Molly, Molly. This is the sort of shit that, like, 2:20:50.670 --> 2:20:55.030 I have graded some essays of, like, undergraduate and even, like, 2:20:55.129 --> 2:20:58.270 postgraduate students, and, like, this is the kind of puerile 2:20:58.330 --> 2:21:02.720 shit that, like, anyone who's going through, like, a serious 2:21:02.780 --> 2:21:05.580 attempt to be a serious writer should be fucking, like, 2:21:06.900 --> 2:21:08.220 I know, like, whack-a-mole. 2:21:08.560 --> 2:21:11.430 Like, All of the points in this essay came up 2:21:11.790 --> 2:21:15.090 in my mandatory don't rate people training in college in 2007. 2:21:15.090 --> 2:21:19.330 Yeah, like this is like the logic of like a 2:21:19.390 --> 2:21:21.850 frat guy trying to be funny. 2:21:22.730 --> 2:21:26.630 First, she sees consent as like exclusively contractual. And I 2:21:26.670 --> 2:21:28.090 think that's where she goes. 2:21:28.190 --> 2:21:29.129 That's very romantic. 2:21:29.170 --> 2:21:33.030 Yes. Also, I wasn't done because that was not the 2:21:33.070 --> 2:21:33.990 bonkers part. 2:21:34.550 --> 2:21:34.910 Oh, OK. 2:21:34.990 --> 2:21:37.480 Oh, the last sentence is phenomenal. You're going to love this, James. 2:21:38.180 --> 2:21:40.100 Okay, great. Yeah, hit me. 2:21:41.120 --> 2:21:43.140 Okay, after all, she signed a contract, so no one 2:21:43.160 --> 2:21:45.970 will believe her anymore, right? Solutions to this kind of 2:21:46.020 --> 2:21:48.510 problem will not be found in anything other than even 2:21:48.550 --> 2:21:51.890 more rules and even more government interference. What is the 2:21:51.930 --> 2:21:55.629 next step? Cameras in the bedroom or a civil servant 2:21:55.709 --> 2:21:59.430 standing beside your bed? This new sexual offense law creates 2:21:59.510 --> 2:22:03.170 more problems than it solves. All of this legal uncertainty, 2:22:03.550 --> 2:22:07.330 the erosion of the presumption of innocence, the extinguishing of romance... 2:22:08.290 --> 2:22:10.590 indicates that we should not even want to crack the 2:22:10.629 --> 2:22:13.030 door open to this Orwellian nightmare. 2:22:13.209 --> 2:22:13.669 No! 2:22:14.030 --> 2:22:14.750 Every time! 2:22:15.110 --> 2:22:15.510 No! 2:22:15.530 --> 2:22:18.680 No door! Every time! I knew it was coming. I 2:22:19.060 --> 2:22:20.940 knew it was coming and I'm still angry. 2:22:20.959 --> 2:22:23.760 What is it, 1984? 2:22:23.760 --> 2:22:26.800 It may still sound abstract to you, but ask yourself 2:22:26.840 --> 2:22:29.140 the following question in all seriousness. 2:22:29.600 --> 2:22:30.340 I'm serious. 2:22:30.920 --> 2:22:34.529 How many totalitarian regimes in history can you name that 2:22:34.570 --> 2:22:36.850 went so far as to write rules and laws? 2:22:37.370 --> 2:22:40.930 Dictating how people must behave in the bedroom. The question 2:22:41.090 --> 2:22:42.060 answers itself. 2:22:42.590 --> 2:22:45.080 Making rape illegal basically makes you Hitler. 2:22:46.300 --> 2:22:49.880 This is insane. The same person who wants the state 2:22:49.920 --> 2:22:53.300 to fucking kick people out for not being white. It's 2:22:53.340 --> 2:22:56.110 a little too far if they're policing rape, though, isn't it? 2:22:56.260 --> 2:23:00.630 That should be something we settle amongst ourselves. They always 2:23:00.709 --> 2:23:03.750 do this, and I find it so fucking annoying. Obviously, 2:23:03.770 --> 2:23:05.490 the most annoying thing here is not being wrong about 2:23:05.510 --> 2:23:09.580 George Orwell, who had some fucking issues with consent himself. 2:23:10.740 --> 2:23:14.120 But God, it pisses... The whole thing, it's just... It's 2:23:14.180 --> 2:23:15.019 so puerile. 2:23:15.200 --> 2:23:17.620 This would be better if she did let ChatGPT write it. 2:23:18.120 --> 2:23:21.490 Yeah. Now I'm wondering how this person... If this is 2:23:21.550 --> 2:23:24.310 a topic she explored for her master's degree... We do 2:23:24.330 --> 2:23:26.270 need to find the thesis. If they also let ChatGPT 2:23:26.330 --> 2:23:30.570 grade it, is what I'm wondering. Because, like Molly said, 2:23:30.629 --> 2:23:33.939 if you worked in education... Like, I've been in higher 2:23:34.000 --> 2:23:39.110 education for 20 years. And yeah, you've heard this shit 2:23:39.390 --> 2:23:42.390 from an 18-year-old guy whose shirt doesn't have sleeves for 2:23:42.410 --> 2:23:45.070 the most part, right? And like, I wear a lot 2:23:45.090 --> 2:23:48.050 of sleeveless shirts myself. Like, that's fine. But there's a 2:23:48.090 --> 2:23:50.140 type of dude who's been saying this shit to you 2:23:50.640 --> 2:23:54.380 every September since you started talking about this shit, right? 2:23:54.459 --> 2:23:57.240 And like, just because a lady wrote it in a 2:23:57.320 --> 2:23:59.460 fucking thesis doesn't make it any less dumb. 2:23:59.480 --> 2:24:00.580 Well, this is actually a Twitter post. 2:24:00.600 --> 2:24:00.760 Yeah. 2:24:02.850 --> 2:24:04.770 Yeah, well, that makes more sense. That makes a lot 2:24:04.790 --> 2:24:05.070 more sense. 2:24:05.110 --> 2:24:06.230 If this is drawn from her thesis. 2:24:06.270 --> 2:24:08.550 If that's a line of argumentation she went with. 2:24:08.650 --> 2:24:11.300 If this is the quality of thinking in her master's thesis, 2:24:11.640 --> 2:24:13.240 I actually do really want to see it now. We 2:24:13.260 --> 2:24:13.720 have to find it. 2:24:13.740 --> 2:24:18.080 Where did she do her master's thesis? Leiden University. Okay. 2:24:18.660 --> 2:24:22.500 Did she make a significant donation at any point to 2:24:22.959 --> 2:24:23.940 Leiden University? 2:24:23.959 --> 2:24:27.050 Well, like, if we're detouring already, there is, like, a 2:24:27.100 --> 2:24:31.230 prominent supporter of the fascist party who teaches at Leiden 2:24:31.270 --> 2:24:31.789 Law School. 2:24:32.050 --> 2:24:32.209 So. 2:24:32.760 --> 2:24:33.020 Great. 2:24:33.379 --> 2:24:36.270 And that's also where Chetty Baudet, who we mentioned earlier, 2:24:36.810 --> 2:24:41.380 did his promotion research, which was also incredibly bad to 2:24:41.400 --> 2:24:43.959 the point that one of the people graded it said, 2:24:44.260 --> 2:24:45.560 you should not get a PhD. 2:24:45.650 --> 2:24:48.900 This is like... For anyone who doesn't know... Yeah, that 2:24:48.940 --> 2:24:53.000 doesn't happen very often. You defending your PhD is mostly 2:24:53.060 --> 2:24:56.820 a formality? Yeah, like, you might get some difficult questions. 2:24:56.980 --> 2:24:57.240 Yeah. 2:24:57.459 --> 2:25:01.200 But people who go into their defense normally expect to 2:25:01.260 --> 2:25:05.360 leave with a PhD, right? Like, if your shit's so bad... And, like, 2:25:05.500 --> 2:25:08.620 if they don't tell you about it before you get 2:25:08.780 --> 2:25:12.140 to the exam, it's because they really don't like you 2:25:12.180 --> 2:25:14.320 very much, right? Like, if you've got to that point 2:25:14.940 --> 2:25:18.660 where you're having your you're defending with your committee and 2:25:18.720 --> 2:25:21.940 they haven't been like, hey, this is really bad. You 2:25:21.959 --> 2:25:25.300 need to rewrite this. You have made an enemy. 2:25:26.260 --> 2:25:29.400 Yeah, I guess done is good enough in most cases. 2:25:29.440 --> 2:25:30.080 Yeah, yeah. 2:25:30.100 --> 2:25:33.550 Because I don't have occasion to read very many theses 2:25:33.610 --> 2:25:37.250 or dissertations, but every time I do, I'm surprised that 2:25:37.310 --> 2:25:40.030 it worked. You know what I mean? I did a 2:25:40.050 --> 2:25:43.190 close reading of... There was a Holocaust denier who died 2:25:43.209 --> 2:25:44.690 in a murder-suicide. He killed his wife. 2:25:45.570 --> 2:25:45.930 And his. 2:25:46.770 --> 2:25:48.609 history thesis was one of the worst things i've ever 2:25:48.650 --> 2:25:51.029 read and i was so surprised and a bunch of 2:25:51.080 --> 2:25:53.279 listeners wrote in to my my show email to say 2:25:53.420 --> 2:25:55.420 oh no that's it's pretty normal for a thesis to 2:25:55.440 --> 2:25:56.939 be just absolute dog shit. 2:25:57.500 --> 2:25:59.000 Yeah i don't want to i don't want to take 2:25:59.040 --> 2:26:02.140 that one as a representative sample uh but they do 2:26:02.200 --> 2:26:04.019 say your thesis should be the first draft of your 2:26:04.040 --> 2:26:06.369 book or your dissertation if you're in the u.s and 2:26:06.690 --> 2:26:09.170 uh i it's really easy if you're in grad school 2:26:09.190 --> 2:26:11.330 to get way too wrapped up in making it perfect 2:26:11.890 --> 2:26:14.709 but also some people still manage to uh do some 2:26:14.750 --> 2:26:18.070 nazi shit and I'm glad that someone held the line. 2:26:18.950 --> 2:26:21.240 Like all of his citations were to David Irving books 2:26:21.300 --> 2:26:22.900 and like they still gave him the degree. 2:26:23.480 --> 2:26:27.060 Yeah, there's a couple of info citations. 2:26:27.120 --> 2:26:29.940 Citation, author's email with David Irving. 2:26:31.020 --> 2:26:33.300 Maybe David Icke gets in there for some like real 2:26:33.320 --> 2:26:34.240 old school credibility. 2:26:34.780 --> 2:26:37.770 I had a professor during my master's and at some 2:26:37.830 --> 2:26:41.250 point he said, like all of your master theses will 2:26:41.310 --> 2:26:44.810 probably be shit. And that's fine because the master thesis 2:26:44.850 --> 2:26:45.730 is for you to learn. 2:26:47.190 --> 2:26:49.250 There's value to having a piece of writing that doesn't 2:26:49.290 --> 2:26:51.690 have to be perfect. And I'm sure if I looked 2:26:51.740 --> 2:26:53.879 at lots of academics who I deeply respect and read 2:26:53.900 --> 2:26:57.660 their master's thesis or their PhD dissertation, I would be 2:26:57.740 --> 2:26:59.760 able to witness their growth. And that would give me 2:26:59.820 --> 2:27:02.580 hope as an academic that we can all get better. 2:27:02.660 --> 2:27:05.040 But it sounds like she didn't learn much because this 2:27:05.140 --> 2:27:06.820 essay is something a moron would write. 2:27:06.840 --> 2:27:10.720 I'm sorry. Oh, no. The Orwell mention because like... Anyone 2:27:10.760 --> 2:27:13.250 mentioning Orwell in a piece of academic writing needs to. 2:27:13.310 --> 2:27:14.260 Are you a teenager? 2:27:14.580 --> 2:27:16.920 No, but like Orwell did have some pretty good opinions 2:27:17.010 --> 2:27:19.470 on how to deal with fascists, you know? So I 2:27:19.490 --> 2:27:21.550 find it ironic that a fascist is quoting it. 2:27:22.410 --> 2:27:23.470 Because she hasn't read it. 2:27:23.950 --> 2:27:28.370 Yeah, many such cases, right? Yeah, exactly. She's engaged with 2:27:28.370 --> 2:27:31.170 1984 through cultural memes in the same way fucking Elon 2:27:31.209 --> 2:27:36.510 Musk has. I read Dorian Linksey's book about Orwell writing 2:27:36.670 --> 2:27:40.040 in 1984 recently, and the amount of his life, that 2:27:40.080 --> 2:27:43.820 he spent after animal farm being like no you guys 2:27:43.840 --> 2:27:46.380 don't fucking understand it that's not what i meant please 2:27:46.440 --> 2:27:50.470 stop it specifically with americans but on a much broader 2:27:50.490 --> 2:27:53.410 scale the amount of time he spent like trying to 2:27:53.610 --> 2:27:56.770 refuse interviews being like no i'm a like i'm a 2:27:56.810 --> 2:27:59.050 man of the left and that is a group And 2:27:59.080 --> 2:28:00.930 like that I remain or something was one that he 2:28:00.950 --> 2:28:03.830 wrote in a letter refusing an interview. But the poor 2:28:03.890 --> 2:28:06.830 guy spent his dying days being like, you motherfuckers haven't 2:28:06.870 --> 2:28:11.050 understood my book, you stupid pricks. And every year they 2:28:11.110 --> 2:28:13.670 dig him up and do the same shit. 2:28:13.950 --> 2:28:15.830 That must be absolute torture for him. 2:28:15.870 --> 2:28:17.529 Like the rat's pill from the Matrix. 2:28:17.770 --> 2:28:19.310 I'm going to use a Ouija board to tell George 2:28:19.410 --> 2:28:21.810 Orwell about Alex Jones. 2:28:21.830 --> 2:28:24.000 The guy has suffered enough, Molly. 2:28:24.900 --> 2:28:29.789 The answer to 1984 is 1776. one of alex's favorite 2:28:29.810 --> 2:28:30.870 lines ah. 2:28:31.690 --> 2:28:34.129 I know that god just there's an inside joke i 2:28:34.150 --> 2:28:36.629 love that her body goes on a rant her camera 2:28:36.650 --> 2:28:39.170 like automatically zooms in a little bit and it just 2:28:39.220 --> 2:28:43.320 gets extra ominous yeah you get like she's doing it 2:28:43.360 --> 2:28:45.840 that's it that's an old alex jones trick actually get 2:28:45.879 --> 2:28:58.690 them forehead veins to pop To try to get us 2:28:58.750 --> 2:29:00.470 back on track again. Sorry. 2:29:00.920 --> 2:29:04.880 Like, she's very much into the same, like, female nationalism 2:29:05.180 --> 2:29:08.560 that we discussed with also you, Molly, during the Quentin 2:29:08.580 --> 2:29:09.599 Derank episodes. 2:29:09.620 --> 2:29:12.240 But without any feminism or proper nationalism. 2:29:12.260 --> 2:29:16.570 No, it's, again, all feminism is we need to stop 2:29:16.610 --> 2:29:18.869 being raped by migrants and then everything is solved. 2:29:19.430 --> 2:29:20.150 Which is not the case. 2:29:20.170 --> 2:29:22.310 No, we just should be raped by our husbands, I guess, 2:29:22.370 --> 2:29:24.210 is her argument. I don't want to be raped by 2:29:24.250 --> 2:29:25.689 an immigrant. I want to be raped by a husband. 2:29:25.720 --> 2:29:27.690 Yeah, that's... As is tradition. 2:29:27.770 --> 2:29:30.630 She would probably agree that that would be fine or 2:29:30.690 --> 2:29:32.590 deny that that such a thing is possible. 2:29:32.610 --> 2:29:33.350 Yeah, I think. 2:29:33.570 --> 2:29:34.250 Yeah, more likely. 2:29:34.590 --> 2:29:35.370 But it's a contract. 2:29:35.890 --> 2:29:36.129 Yeah. 2:29:36.670 --> 2:29:39.270 Anyway, some of the listeners may also have had the 2:29:39.290 --> 2:29:42.190 misfortune of seeing Eva on the Tucker Carlson show. 2:29:42.709 --> 2:29:43.610 He knows how to pick them. 2:29:43.740 --> 2:29:44.170 Yeah. 2:29:44.660 --> 2:29:45.800 At the moment, she is. 2:29:45.820 --> 2:29:51.810 Married to Francesco Gargalo di Castellantini. a Roman-based lawyer who 2:29:51.890 --> 2:29:56.129 is descended from a long line of Italian noblemen. He's 2:29:56.170 --> 2:29:59.510 a constitutional lawyer who practices in a number of countries 2:30:00.129 --> 2:30:03.870 and recently defended a woman who in 2021 refused to 2:30:03.910 --> 2:30:07.070 take a PCR test when she traveled from Spain to Norway. 2:30:09.110 --> 2:30:14.770 God, the Venn diagram. I want the government to be 2:30:14.850 --> 2:30:18.449 powerful enough to rip apart families and sink boats full 2:30:18.480 --> 2:30:20.860 of children in the sea. But I don't want the 2:30:20.910 --> 2:30:22.869 government to be able to make me put a swab 2:30:22.910 --> 2:30:26.130 in my nose to prove I don't have a deadly disease. 2:30:26.650 --> 2:30:29.650 Cool and normal stuff. I don't want to be surprised, 2:30:29.770 --> 2:30:33.910 and I'm not, but also I am. Further, she spoke 2:30:34.190 --> 2:30:37.730 at multiple Unite the Kingdom rallies in the UK, including 2:30:37.770 --> 2:30:42.760 in the September of 2025 one, where she encouraged attendees 2:30:42.800 --> 2:30:46.020 to stand up to their governments. Protests ended in violence. 2:30:46.020 --> 2:30:50.480 26 police officers injured and 24 people arrested, according to 2:30:50.500 --> 2:30:53.260 the Daily Mail. It does, however, not mention if the 2:30:53.320 --> 2:30:56.490 police were there in their professional capacity or not, which 2:30:56.580 --> 2:31:00.070 I think is a meaningful distinction to make there. This 2:31:00.129 --> 2:31:02.609 incident also led her to from being barred from the 2:31:02.750 --> 2:31:06.750 UK as her presence was not considered conductive to the 2:31:06.810 --> 2:31:11.420 public good. After this, she labeled Keir Starmer a tyrant. 2:31:12.320 --> 2:31:14.480 If anyone has ever seen an interview with Keir Starmer, 2:31:14.500 --> 2:31:17.260 you know this is untrue because Keir Starmer is the 2:31:17.340 --> 2:31:19.660 dark crevice where charisma goes to die. 2:31:20.080 --> 2:31:22.779 Yeah, he lacks a charisma for fascism. 2:31:23.320 --> 2:31:29.240 For anything. He is the most bland, flavorless politician you've 2:31:29.300 --> 2:31:31.800 ever seen. I don't want to slander Keir Starmer because 2:31:31.840 --> 2:31:34.280 I would like to visit the UK at some point again. 2:31:34.680 --> 2:31:36.640 But not that. The demand. 2:31:36.720 --> 2:31:39.920 Calling a British politician a little bit bland is not slander. 2:31:40.860 --> 2:31:44.910 Well, we got Andy Burnham now who... played the Smiths 2:31:45.209 --> 2:31:48.550 to a group of soldiers in Ukraine on a guitar recently. 2:31:48.750 --> 2:31:49.150 Why? 2:31:52.150 --> 2:31:54.730 It's the most British thing that anyone's ever done. He 2:31:56.350 --> 2:32:00.660 was visiting Ukrainian soldiers. Was he trying to cheer them up? 2:32:00.760 --> 2:32:03.960 That's what I can't understand. Doing a morale trip and 2:32:03.980 --> 2:32:06.340 being like, here's a sad song written by a really 2:32:06.379 --> 2:32:09.570 annoying guy. I like the Smiths, but Morris is a prick. 2:32:09.590 --> 2:32:10.650 I think we can all acknowledge that. 2:32:11.070 --> 2:32:14.209 Maybe that's proof he's on Russia's side trying to incite 2:32:14.290 --> 2:32:15.230 mass suicide. 2:32:15.250 --> 2:32:15.890 Yeah, trying to. 2:32:15.870 --> 2:32:17.269 Demoralize the troops. 2:32:19.370 --> 2:32:20.369 It's a song about suicide. 2:32:20.390 --> 2:32:21.869 Yeah, I heard you were having a hard day. Why 2:32:22.030 --> 2:32:23.890 don't you enjoy some Morrissey? 2:32:24.290 --> 2:32:29.050 Yeah, his heaven knows I'm miserable. You have to be 2:32:29.090 --> 2:32:33.280 as miserable as I am, so I'm playing this song. Okay. 2:32:33.680 --> 2:32:35.420 That was all the fun stuff I had on the 2:32:35.459 --> 2:32:39.480 fascist shield maiden, to be honest. Still some funny stuff 2:32:39.540 --> 2:32:41.959 in there, but also... Jesus fucking Christ. 2:32:42.780 --> 2:32:45.640 But unsurprising on all fronts. These people are exactly what 2:32:45.660 --> 2:32:46.620 he would expect them to be. 2:32:47.340 --> 2:32:50.050 Yeah. I'm not even surprised that she married a nobleman. 2:32:50.840 --> 2:32:53.150 No, that's classic fascism stuff. Love that for her. 2:32:53.190 --> 2:32:58.150 Yeah, yeah. All of this. Italian nobles, famously unproblematic. 2:32:58.450 --> 2:33:01.470 It's like Colin Jordan marrying the Dior heiress. Like, okay, 2:33:01.510 --> 2:33:01.950 I got it. 2:33:02.129 --> 2:33:03.410 I got it. 2:33:03.430 --> 2:33:05.769 There is one more composed golem that we have to 2:33:05.830 --> 2:33:08.539 talk about. And this one takes great effort in remaining 2:33:08.580 --> 2:33:11.150 more behind the scenes. I'm curious if you guys heard 2:33:11.170 --> 2:33:13.540 of him. That applies to both his role in pulling 2:33:13.720 --> 2:33:16.539 Europe even further to the right, but also his personal life. 2:33:17.320 --> 2:33:20.740 It is the chairman of the World Congress for the Family, 2:33:20.760 --> 2:33:25.850 hailing from the United States, Mr. Brian Stephen Brown. 2:33:26.230 --> 2:33:30.930 I've never heard of Brian. He sounds very boring. Just 2:33:30.950 --> 2:33:35.380 like a garden variety, like a weird pervert. Brian Stephen Brown. 2:33:35.400 --> 2:33:38.600 Yeah, he has a Wikipedia page. Oh, okay. 2:33:38.620 --> 2:33:43.010 I recognize the symbol on the podium where he is here. Now, oh, 2:33:43.070 --> 2:33:44.870 he's the National Organization for Marriage guy. 2:33:44.930 --> 2:33:47.129 Yes. I think I wrote it down wrong in my 2:33:47.170 --> 2:33:48.370 script then. No, he's both. 2:33:48.430 --> 2:33:50.129 It's the World Congress of Families I've never heard of. 2:33:50.140 --> 2:33:52.500 The National Organization for Marriage. That's a classic. 2:33:53.200 --> 2:33:56.259 Now, I'll consider this feedback on my script writing. 2:33:56.890 --> 2:33:58.550 Oh, no, it's just that's that's the hate group I'm 2:33:58.590 --> 2:34:00.709 familiar with of the hate groups he's affiliated with. 2:34:00.750 --> 2:34:04.130 Yeah, there is more hate groups that he's affiliated with 2:34:04.170 --> 2:34:05.300 than we could name. 2:34:05.640 --> 2:34:06.100 It's a lot. 2:34:06.740 --> 2:34:09.480 But yeah, America is full of these like vague sounding 2:34:09.560 --> 2:34:13.400 foundations for the focus on the family, the family, Congress, world, 2:34:13.940 --> 2:34:15.959 wives and babies or whatever. Like it's just like this 2:34:16.220 --> 2:34:20.910 word salad basically about weird white natalism and hating gay 2:34:20.950 --> 2:34:23.280 people and immigration. It's just sort of a grab bag, 2:34:23.300 --> 2:34:25.019 like whatever part of that you're into. 2:34:25.420 --> 2:34:29.090 So the Justice for Prosperity report that I used earlier 2:34:29.110 --> 2:34:33.050 states that the World Congress for Families is an ultra-conservative 2:34:33.190 --> 2:34:37.910 and transnational anti-rights network that opposes all the things you 2:34:38.030 --> 2:34:42.030 imagine it opposes. Abortion, same-sex marriage. It was labeled a 2:34:42.070 --> 2:34:45.420 hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center. Brown is 2:34:45.459 --> 2:34:48.960 also on the board of Citizen Go, a Spanish anti-abortion 2:34:49.040 --> 2:34:54.130 and anti-LGBT advocacy group. In fact, if you needed just 2:34:54.190 --> 2:34:56.609 a little bit more evidence of the type of bastard 2:34:56.629 --> 2:35:00.400 he is, he physically stood in the Russian Duma as 2:35:00.480 --> 2:35:03.520 it passed the anti-gay bill legislation. 2:35:03.560 --> 2:35:03.779 Great. 2:35:04.459 --> 2:35:07.039 Yeah, I've seen that picture as well. 2:35:07.540 --> 2:35:07.959 Oh, wow. 2:35:08.620 --> 2:35:10.520 He looks exactly like you think he's going to look. 2:35:10.600 --> 2:35:14.539 It's like a hairy thumb. Yeah, this isn't a surprise 2:35:14.580 --> 2:35:18.449 to me. Like an otter or something? Like a bald otter? Yeah. 2:35:18.709 --> 2:35:20.070 Mole rat is what I'm thinking of. 2:35:20.870 --> 2:35:23.270 Wait, so what's our American homophobe got to do with this? 2:35:23.810 --> 2:35:25.570 I got distracted looking at how weird he looks. 2:35:25.930 --> 2:35:27.730 Yeah, that's understandable. 2:35:28.490 --> 2:35:31.890 We'll get there first, because he was not only just 2:35:31.990 --> 2:35:36.910 at the Duma for that legislation to pass. After he 2:35:36.950 --> 2:35:40.470 was present at that legislation passing, he was also repeatedly 2:35:40.530 --> 2:35:44.370 returned to Russia to chat with his buddies, Konstantin Maloviev 2:35:44.870 --> 2:35:49.129 and his right-hand man, Alexei Komov, allies of Putin. 2:35:49.870 --> 2:35:53.340 Well, What do they chat about? Probably about how great 2:35:53.360 --> 2:35:55.780 it is not to have polonium in your underwear or 2:35:55.860 --> 2:36:01.240 how dangerous falling out of a basement window is. I'm guessing. 2:36:01.360 --> 2:36:01.940 I don't know. 2:36:02.560 --> 2:36:04.080 And I don't want to know because I don't want 2:36:04.140 --> 2:36:08.310 either of those things to happen to me. But Malaviv 2:36:08.350 --> 2:36:11.270 has been on both the EU and US sanctions list 2:36:11.490 --> 2:36:14.970 since 2014 for arming pro-Russian separatists. 2:36:15.610 --> 2:36:16.090 Oh, cool. 2:36:16.610 --> 2:36:18.410 So not a guy you should really be hanging out with. 2:36:19.040 --> 2:36:21.039 I feel like this is the through line, but it 2:36:21.080 --> 2:36:23.199 gets worse. It gets worse. 2:36:23.230 --> 2:36:27.770 He also helped finance regular conferences that merge multiple pro-family groups. 2:36:28.450 --> 2:36:33.190 Read pro-family as anti-abortion, anti-LGBT. Yeah, pro-family is a bold. 2:36:33.230 --> 2:36:35.030 Pro exactly what kind of family? 2:36:35.500 --> 2:36:41.360 Yeah, anti-self-determination. And through this process, allegedly, they also extend 2:36:41.400 --> 2:36:46.330 the influence of Russian geopolitical policy into other countries. Other 2:36:46.370 --> 2:36:50.110 investigations from Justice for Prosperity also identified him as the 2:36:50.190 --> 2:36:55.680 primary coordinator and fundraiser behind the systemic deportations and relocation 2:36:55.720 --> 2:36:59.400 of Ukrainian children through his St. Basil the Great Foundation. 2:36:59.660 --> 2:37:04.680 Jesus. Under the aptly chosen name, Happy Childhood. 2:37:04.959 --> 2:37:05.440 Fuck me. 2:37:06.080 --> 2:37:06.260 Yeah. 2:37:06.680 --> 2:37:10.630 And, like, I also want to mention, because, James, we 2:37:11.190 --> 2:37:12.270 also had a chat about this. 2:37:12.290 --> 2:37:13.050 Yeah. 2:37:13.170 --> 2:37:17.900 Forcefully displacing or relocating children... That's one of the things 2:37:17.920 --> 2:37:19.150 that's a genocide. 2:37:19.330 --> 2:37:19.570 Yes. 2:37:19.760 --> 2:37:22.269 That's in the UN definition of a genocide. 2:37:22.290 --> 2:37:22.730 Yeah. 2:37:22.790 --> 2:37:25.670 But it has to specifically be children. 2:37:26.190 --> 2:37:30.640 So like the quasi-Nuremberg laws that we read earlier. are 2:37:30.700 --> 2:37:36.199 technically not genocidal because it's not explicitly children. But one 2:37:36.300 --> 2:37:39.760 could imagine what it would be if you followed their 2:37:39.830 --> 2:37:41.690 policies to their logical conclusion. 2:37:41.870 --> 2:37:42.410 Yeah. 2:37:43.470 --> 2:37:45.890 But Brown is also involved with the Safe Europe Act. 2:37:46.390 --> 2:37:49.750 He was present at the first demonstration in Brussels. But 2:37:49.790 --> 2:37:51.570 his true involvement is much more. 2:37:51.480 --> 2:37:52.160 Behind the scenes. 2:37:52.820 --> 2:37:58.740 He co-owns a digital infrastructure company called AlternCloud, self-described as 2:37:58.920 --> 2:38:03.019 infrastructure as a service. Donations and other forms of digital 2:38:03.040 --> 2:38:06.970 infrastructure are moving through this, which originate either in the 2:38:07.010 --> 2:38:10.490 Save Europe Act, the donations I mean then, or people 2:38:10.510 --> 2:38:13.830 that like the initiative. And AlternCloud itself is also not 2:38:13.850 --> 2:38:16.030 shy about showcasing their political leanings. 2:38:16.700 --> 2:38:18.140 I'm quoting from their website. 2:38:18.790 --> 2:38:21.230 We are excited to report we are now the digital 2:38:21.270 --> 2:38:26.110 backbone of businesses, organizations, websites, and apps across America and Europe. 2:38:26.910 --> 2:38:32.160 Current clients include conservative organizations like No Next Row, Never 2:38:32.240 --> 2:38:37.839 News Impact, conservative and Catholic news organizations such as InfoCatho, 2:38:38.300 --> 2:38:43.120 La Salon Beige, and Les Forts Vérités, family advocacy nonprofits 2:38:43.180 --> 2:38:47.610 like International Organization for the Family, And tech companies such 2:38:47.650 --> 2:38:51.940 as Titanium Secure, Tech IG, and Ad Hoc Capital. 2:38:52.459 --> 2:38:54.740 I love that they can just call it family advocacy 2:38:54.760 --> 2:38:58.459 when what it is is like violent homophobia and transphobia 2:38:58.500 --> 2:39:00.980 and anti-women's rights, anti-abortion. 2:39:01.080 --> 2:39:02.500 Yeah, we're just a hate group. 2:39:02.950 --> 2:39:06.450 Family advocacy for a very particular kind of family and 2:39:06.570 --> 2:39:08.150 everyone else can fuck off and die. 2:39:08.170 --> 2:39:10.610 Yeah. I'll say this much. At least he lives to 2:39:10.650 --> 2:39:13.290 his values because allegedly he has nine children. 2:39:13.450 --> 2:39:14.160 His poor wife. 2:39:14.629 --> 2:39:17.709 Oh, yes, 100%. Yeah, those poor children. 2:39:17.730 --> 2:39:21.750 So, the names mentioned earlier, we can already safely assume 2:39:21.810 --> 2:39:24.830 just what kind of clientele our alternate cloud likes to 2:39:24.850 --> 2:39:27.590 engage with. But what I find most disturbing is that 2:39:27.640 --> 2:39:31.500 he's clearly a very influential person of who we know 2:39:31.560 --> 2:39:34.859 very little. Say what you will about Musk or Zuckerberg 2:39:34.920 --> 2:39:38.220 or Bezos. At least we know what kind of crepuscular 2:39:38.340 --> 2:39:39.460 crotch goblins they are. 2:39:39.900 --> 2:39:42.959 No, but the more effective guys are not making so 2:39:43.000 --> 2:39:43.940 much fucking noise. 2:39:44.740 --> 2:39:48.170 That is what scares me about him. Like, at that end, 2:39:48.200 --> 2:39:49.200 the picture you shared. 2:39:49.510 --> 2:39:50.330 Not a handsome man. 2:39:50.350 --> 2:39:50.410 No. 2:39:51.370 --> 2:39:52.810 Would not want to wake up to that. 2:39:53.350 --> 2:39:55.530 Would not want to make nine children with that. 2:39:56.830 --> 2:39:58.730 Well, we don't know if his wife had any say. 2:39:59.230 --> 2:40:00.029 Yeah. 2:40:00.330 --> 2:40:01.609 Yeah, I mean, I guess if he's signing on to 2:40:01.660 --> 2:40:03.640 do business with a woman who thinks rape should be legal. 2:40:03.660 --> 2:40:06.900 Yeah. Or, like, Russian genocide enjoyers. 2:40:07.180 --> 2:40:07.480 Yeah. 2:40:07.879 --> 2:40:09.120 He's not huge on women's rights. 2:40:09.140 --> 2:40:09.340 Yeah. 2:40:09.879 --> 2:40:10.940 Like, he's just. 2:40:11.500 --> 2:40:14.539 Sort of a connection point or a nexus for like 2:40:14.620 --> 2:40:20.320 Kremlin affiliates, European identitarian groups, the American Christian rights, and 2:40:20.340 --> 2:40:24.720 like similar anti-rights groups with like these conferences that his 2:40:24.780 --> 2:40:26.750 contacts also finance. 2:40:28.120 --> 2:40:30.010 That's all I have on him because there's just not 2:40:30.070 --> 2:40:30.789 much to find. 2:40:31.390 --> 2:40:33.110 Well, now I'm curious. I'm going to keep looking. 2:40:34.070 --> 2:40:37.470 Let me know if you find something. Okay. It is 2:40:37.510 --> 2:40:40.070 always interesting to find these guys who are pulling the 2:40:40.090 --> 2:40:45.789 strings and funding these giant hate campaigns, right? They very 2:40:45.850 --> 2:40:52.560 successfully astroturf these as like ground level, especially like we 2:40:52.580 --> 2:40:55.420 see this all over the world with anti-migrant shit, right? Like, oh, 2:40:55.459 --> 2:40:56.660 the people are rising up. 2:40:56.840 --> 2:40:57.920 There's 750,000 signatures on this petition. 2:40:57.940 --> 2:40:58.100 Yeah. 2:40:58.140 --> 2:40:58.379 Right? 2:40:58.400 --> 2:40:58.699 Slash names. 2:40:58.720 --> 2:41:00.920 Like there are 750,000 marks on my piece of paper. 2:41:00.980 --> 2:41:01.160 Yeah. 2:41:05.160 --> 2:41:07.660 But like the British far right does this all the time, right? 2:41:07.700 --> 2:41:10.619 They're like, oh, Britain desperately wants to have an independence day, 2:41:10.959 --> 2:41:13.280 which is largely overlooking the fact that people who have 2:41:13.330 --> 2:41:15.750 independence days generally do so because Britain colonized them. 2:41:15.890 --> 2:41:17.470 Because they're independent from Britain now. 2:41:17.610 --> 2:41:20.210 From Britain, yeah. Who is Britain going to be independent from? 2:41:20.370 --> 2:41:23.850 Like Brussels? Come on, fuck off. Like, yeah, the famously 2:41:23.910 --> 2:41:26.060 belligerent colonization of the Belgians. 2:41:26.090 --> 2:41:28.100 Oh, like they want their own 4th of July? That's 2:41:28.140 --> 2:41:28.660 so cute. 2:41:28.680 --> 2:41:28.980 Yeah, right. 2:41:29.000 --> 2:41:29.859 That's cute. 2:41:30.459 --> 2:41:32.830 Just do the king's birthday or whatever the fuck you 2:41:32.840 --> 2:41:33.500 guys are into. 2:41:33.950 --> 2:41:35.770 We have a day. We have a day on the 2:41:35.970 --> 2:41:39.410 5th of November when we let off fireworks because, in 2:41:39.430 --> 2:41:41.370 a very British way, it is a day that people 2:41:41.410 --> 2:41:42.900 like to burn a Catholic in effigy. 2:41:42.920 --> 2:41:44.740 I don't like that. 2:41:45.459 --> 2:41:49.380 Yeah, no, it's actually not great. But like they have 2:41:49.540 --> 2:41:55.850 very successfully astroturfed their hate as like a popular uprising. 2:41:55.950 --> 2:41:59.010 And that is why they have been able to get 2:41:59.510 --> 2:42:01.580 some electoral support for it. 2:42:01.990 --> 2:42:02.209 Right. 2:42:02.290 --> 2:42:07.160 Like I was literally skeeting, I believe is the correct verb. 2:42:07.220 --> 2:42:08.140 I don't think we're saying that. 2:42:08.320 --> 2:42:09.120 Are we not saying it? 2:42:09.220 --> 2:42:09.420 Okay. 2:42:09.480 --> 2:42:13.310 Okay. Posting. I was posting. Let's use a generic term. 2:42:13.870 --> 2:42:16.350 I was posting today a poll of British people who 2:42:16.370 --> 2:42:18.490 think London has a poll of people, I should say, 2:42:18.510 --> 2:42:22.150 who think London has no go areas. It's fucking ludicrous. 2:42:22.190 --> 2:42:26.760 Like of big cities, London is like super safe. I 2:42:27.180 --> 2:42:30.240 have gone all over London, like walking or on my bicycle. 2:42:30.680 --> 2:42:32.120 And so that's that thing where white people think that 2:42:32.160 --> 2:42:34.540 there are some neighborhoods that like they'll be murdered by 2:42:34.600 --> 2:42:35.619 immigrants if they go there. 2:42:35.640 --> 2:42:35.720 Yeah. 2:42:36.400 --> 2:42:38.879 Yeah, I mean, the construct that exists in the right 2:42:38.920 --> 2:42:40.760 wing mind is that like there are areas that are 2:42:40.780 --> 2:42:43.380 like under Sharia law in so much as that is 2:42:43.459 --> 2:42:43.980 a thing. 2:42:44.060 --> 2:42:46.120 The whole neighborhoods of London under Sharia law. 2:42:46.160 --> 2:42:46.459 Yeah. 2:42:46.640 --> 2:42:48.240 Going by the Ayatollah even probably. 2:42:48.260 --> 2:42:51.080 Yeah, exactly. The IRGC in the form of the Quds 2:42:51.120 --> 2:42:53.900 Force is patrolling. They're such babies. 2:42:53.940 --> 2:42:55.000 They're such babies. 2:42:55.220 --> 2:42:57.760 Yeah, like this is being scared of anything that isn't. 2:42:57.840 --> 2:43:00.120 Like a woman in a hijab looked at you and 2:43:00.160 --> 2:43:01.860 you thought you were going to get beheaded by ISIS. 2:43:01.890 --> 2:43:02.470 Like grow up. 2:43:03.270 --> 2:43:06.330 Yeah like also if you're really worried about isis you 2:43:06.350 --> 2:43:08.410 know you could have gone to fight with the yep 2:43:08.430 --> 2:43:10.610 it gave more than a decade but you. 2:43:10.570 --> 2:43:13.009 Didn't i've been to london and i've had a very 2:43:13.190 --> 2:43:18.110 pleasant cigarette smoke with a homeless person and never felt threatened. 2:43:18.450 --> 2:43:21.150 Yeah london's like i've walked all around london i've uh 2:43:21.270 --> 2:43:24.160 literally just wandered into mosques in london because like i 2:43:24.190 --> 2:43:27.119 come from a very small village right i mean have 2:43:27.360 --> 2:43:30.140 a mosque in my tiny village and uh i've been 2:43:30.160 --> 2:43:31.420 to some mosques and i like them so i want 2:43:31.440 --> 2:43:34.540 to check out other ones like not a fucking problem 2:43:34.600 --> 2:43:35.820 people will be nice to you. 2:43:36.040 --> 2:43:38.420 I mean i think it's projection right like they want 2:43:38.480 --> 2:43:40.780 to hurt these people so they assume that those people 2:43:40.820 --> 2:43:41.779 want to hurt them. 2:43:41.920 --> 2:43:43.710 Yeah yes i think that's probably a fair it's that 2:43:43.790 --> 2:43:44.370 it's that what is. 2:43:44.350 --> 2:43:46.050 That thomas jefferson thing you know we have the wolf 2:43:46.090 --> 2:43:48.390 by the ear we can't let him go if we 2:43:48.430 --> 2:43:50.390 let the immigrants have rights they'll do to us what 2:43:50.430 --> 2:43:53.570 we've done to them yeah well yeah like jefferson was 2:43:53.590 --> 2:43:56.010 saying that about the slaves but yes the principle. 2:43:55.740 --> 2:43:58.289 Holds If you live your whole life by the clash 2:43:58.330 --> 2:44:03.090 of civilizations narrative, then it's impossible to understand the world 2:44:03.129 --> 2:44:05.250 in any other way, right? Because you see yourself as 2:44:05.310 --> 2:44:07.609 fundamentally opposed to people who are different from you. 2:44:08.110 --> 2:44:09.890 But not everyone sucks as bad as you do. 2:44:10.250 --> 2:44:13.810 Yeah. In fact, most people are not pieces of shit. 2:44:14.310 --> 2:44:15.830 Maybe if we're looking to kick some people out, we 2:44:15.850 --> 2:44:17.950 could start with the fucking names on the petition. That 2:44:17.970 --> 2:44:18.810 would be a good start. 2:44:19.590 --> 2:44:20.850 The ones of them who are even real. 2:44:21.010 --> 2:44:23.189 Yeah. I mean, I don't think the state should be... 2:44:24.010 --> 2:44:25.670 Telling anyone from their family, to be clear, I don't 2:44:25.690 --> 2:44:27.539 think it's funny when someone gets deported. I don't care 2:44:27.560 --> 2:44:30.320 if they're a bad person. I find the laughing about 2:44:30.340 --> 2:44:33.720 people who don't like being deported deeply frustrating, actually, because 2:44:33.780 --> 2:44:37.980 we should abolish ICE and DHS and the whole deportation machine. 2:44:39.180 --> 2:44:42.400 And Europe while we're at it. Yeah, sure. 2:44:42.600 --> 2:44:44.320 I mean, in the grand scheme of history, most of 2:44:44.360 --> 2:44:46.700 those countries are just a blip on the radar. Just 2:44:46.760 --> 2:44:47.589 abolish Germany. 2:44:49.920 --> 2:44:52.490 I could support that. But I do want to piggyback 2:44:52.530 --> 2:44:55.630 a little bit on what you just said about the astroturfing, James, 2:44:56.070 --> 2:45:00.490 because the last bit of my script regards the discourse 2:45:00.550 --> 2:45:03.350 and violence that has happened in the Netherlands in the 2:45:03.410 --> 2:45:08.629 past few months, like downright terrorist attacks. But a lot 2:45:08.670 --> 2:45:13.230 of these local anti-immigrant protests, at least in the Netherlands, 2:45:13.830 --> 2:45:17.010 a core part is the defense groups that the three 2:45:17.050 --> 2:45:20.420 of us spoke about. They just go to small municipalities, 2:45:20.920 --> 2:45:25.740 stir shit up and make this whole anti-immigration sentiment seem 2:45:25.820 --> 2:45:31.020 so much bigger than it actually is. It's people taking 2:45:31.060 --> 2:45:33.080 a day off of work to go protest in some 2:45:33.360 --> 2:45:37.459 municipality that they don't live in and do violence and 2:45:37.480 --> 2:45:39.839 then claim like, oh, look at all these violent immigrants. 2:45:40.459 --> 2:45:43.940 Don't look at me throwing heavy fireworks at people, which 2:45:44.000 --> 2:45:47.230 is a thing. I've had fireworks thrown at me. By 2:45:47.250 --> 2:45:48.490 those people, it's not fun. 2:45:48.790 --> 2:45:51.949 Yeah. It's preferable to being shot, I suppose, but. 2:45:52.170 --> 2:45:52.490 You know. 2:45:53.090 --> 2:45:53.789 That's a low bar. 2:45:53.810 --> 2:45:56.150 Yeah, it's still deeply unenjoyable. 2:45:56.830 --> 2:45:57.010 Yeah. 2:45:57.570 --> 2:46:02.000 Also, like, our communities are so intertwined, even more so 2:46:02.020 --> 2:46:04.720 than the US, right? Like, we don't have, in much 2:46:04.780 --> 2:46:10.000 of Europe, this long history of redlining and using capitalism 2:46:10.580 --> 2:46:14.400 to do racial segregation. To an extent, we still have, like, 2:46:14.480 --> 2:46:17.910 neighbourhoods where people will want to live around services that 2:46:17.930 --> 2:46:19.390 they like to access, right? If you like to go 2:46:19.450 --> 2:46:21.520 to the mosque, it makes sense to live relatively near 2:46:21.540 --> 2:46:25.220 to the mosque. If you want to go to the Gurdwara, 2:46:25.260 --> 2:46:28.820 same thing, right? But, like, the idea that you could 2:46:28.879 --> 2:46:32.390 tear these communities apart is just so fucking... Like, it's 2:46:32.570 --> 2:46:36.330 complete pie-in-the-sky shit from people whose, like, entire politics is 2:46:36.370 --> 2:46:39.589 informed by the internet and watching what's happening in America. 2:46:40.270 --> 2:46:45.100 You could no more, like, tear immigrants... from European cities 2:46:45.200 --> 2:46:48.119 and have them function, then you could be like, all right, 2:46:48.160 --> 2:46:50.940 we're doing away with everyone who was born on an 2:46:51.040 --> 2:46:54.910 even-numbered day. Our fucking society doesn't function without each other. 2:46:55.770 --> 2:46:58.350 And again, you just fall into this trap of how 2:46:58.390 --> 2:47:01.010 are we defining this? Who are you talking about exactly? 2:47:01.090 --> 2:47:02.449 How far back are you going? 2:47:02.650 --> 2:47:05.230 Who counts? Yeah, I mean, it seems like what they 2:47:05.250 --> 2:47:08.209 want is like the apartheid thing, right? Which even apartheid 2:47:08.230 --> 2:47:10.660 got into its own questions of how do we define... 2:47:10.260 --> 2:47:11.010 People's race. 2:47:11.010 --> 2:47:14.459 It became very messy and the government was deciding people's 2:47:14.459 --> 2:47:16.379 race with you know without their input and it was 2:47:16.700 --> 2:47:18.280 it was not a great situation. 2:47:18.420 --> 2:47:21.780 Yeah yeah but like the uh the idea that our 2:47:21.820 --> 2:47:26.940 society could function without people who aren't white or even 2:47:26.990 --> 2:47:29.370 people who have arrived in one or two generations ago 2:47:29.450 --> 2:47:32.990 it's just pure and ridiculous like these people fucking suck 2:47:33.050 --> 2:47:35.890 i don't know like things like unserious people. 2:47:36.240 --> 2:47:38.789 On a previous job of mine, I met this woman 2:47:38.830 --> 2:47:41.129 from Afghanistan and she was allowed to move to the 2:47:41.170 --> 2:47:44.690 Netherlands because she worked, I think, for like NATO or 2:47:44.790 --> 2:47:48.650 an NGO. Because we all were also involved in Afghanistan, 2:47:48.709 --> 2:47:52.840 of course. And she was so incredibly pleasant to work with. 2:47:53.540 --> 2:47:55.920 All Dutch people speak English pretty much as a rule. 2:47:56.420 --> 2:47:58.920 So if someone doesn't speak Dutch very well, we tend 2:47:58.940 --> 2:48:02.050 to like immediately turn to English. And she was very 2:48:02.090 --> 2:48:05.010 much like, Please talk Dutch to me. I want to 2:48:05.050 --> 2:48:06.470 work here in a different job. 2:48:06.670 --> 2:48:09.070 That's so brave of her to want to learn Dutch. 2:48:09.310 --> 2:48:13.650 Yes. I tried to discourage her. It did not work. 2:48:14.709 --> 2:48:15.570 Garbage language. 2:48:16.629 --> 2:48:20.789 I'd rather have a hundred of her than whatever pathetic 2:48:21.290 --> 2:48:27.300 defense groups or whatever racist shit. Because she's actually contributing 2:48:27.379 --> 2:48:30.240 and trying her very best. And these people are just 2:48:30.280 --> 2:48:35.349 out there, you know, stirring shit up the fascists but 2:48:35.790 --> 2:48:38.910 much respect to that particular woman she won't hear this 2:48:38.970 --> 2:48:40.610 but beside the point. 2:48:40.709 --> 2:48:42.770 No but there are hundreds of thousands of people just 2:48:42.810 --> 2:48:44.360 like her right contributing to their. 2:48:44.270 --> 2:48:47.940 Communities yeah exactly yeah that was it was very valuable 2:48:48.080 --> 2:48:50.340 work at the time uh what we did what we 2:48:50.379 --> 2:48:53.160 did like it was necessary it was necessary. 2:48:53.100 --> 2:48:54.420 Even if the work that she was doing was not 2:48:54.920 --> 2:48:57.180 valuable to humanity on a broader scale like there are 2:48:57.300 --> 2:49:00.360 hundreds of thousands of people like that woman who've gone 2:49:00.400 --> 2:49:02.820 to a place where they were not born and contributed 2:49:02.860 --> 2:49:05.670 to a community and that's just not part of the 2:49:05.709 --> 2:49:07.830 conversation for these people because they don't care because they 2:49:07.850 --> 2:49:10.770 don't see people like her as human beings. 2:49:10.910 --> 2:49:13.209 Yeah and also because they're not part of their communities 2:49:13.290 --> 2:49:16.160 right because they're odious pieces of shit like all their 2:49:16.180 --> 2:49:19.449 friends are on storm front or what have you Because 2:49:19.530 --> 2:49:21.840 no one wants to be around hateful bigots like this. 2:49:21.900 --> 2:49:24.960 No, they're in a Twitter space going, yes, exactly, to 2:49:25.000 --> 2:49:25.400 each other. 2:49:25.420 --> 2:49:25.500 Yeah. 2:49:25.920 --> 2:49:27.760 But they don't have real world community. 2:49:28.260 --> 2:49:31.120 This perspective doesn't survive contact with the outside world. 2:49:31.410 --> 2:49:33.630 No, but they're trying to force it on all of 2:49:33.709 --> 2:49:38.110 us through bullshit like this, by shoehorning this discourse into 2:49:38.150 --> 2:49:41.230 respectable places and hoping some of that respectability rubs off 2:49:41.330 --> 2:49:41.520 on it. 2:49:42.290 --> 2:49:44.660 You're so succinct, Molly. I'm jealous. 2:49:55.900 --> 2:49:59.280 To get back to the last bit, because ultimately the 2:49:59.300 --> 2:50:01.760 entirety of the Save Europe Act is exactly what you 2:50:01.800 --> 2:50:06.000 just said. It's shoehorning it in, making it normal to 2:50:06.050 --> 2:50:11.450 have seemingly civil conversations around something that is, no matter 2:50:11.510 --> 2:50:15.129 which way you turn a phrase, it's inherently violent in 2:50:15.190 --> 2:50:20.670 multiple ways. To people who don't deserve it and have 2:50:20.709 --> 2:50:24.410 done nothing but trying to exist in a different place. 2:50:24.970 --> 2:50:27.010 No, but if they can make us all have this 2:50:27.090 --> 2:50:32.490 conversation in our respectable avenues of civil discourse, then it 2:50:32.530 --> 2:50:34.810 becomes a normal thing that we have to talk about. 2:50:34.830 --> 2:50:36.410 And if we have to talk about it, maybe more 2:50:36.470 --> 2:50:39.609 people will be convinced by it. Whereas if you relegate 2:50:39.629 --> 2:50:42.610 this shit to Stormfront, where it belongs, normal people aren't 2:50:42.709 --> 2:50:45.110 coming into contact with it and becoming convinced by it 2:50:45.410 --> 2:50:47.630 or tricked into it or mainstreaming it. 2:50:47.750 --> 2:50:47.910 Yeah. 2:50:48.890 --> 2:50:54.050 On October 7th, 2004, Ava tweeted the following. So cool, 2:50:54.090 --> 2:50:57.109 this timeline of the main accounts pushing the remigration debate 2:50:57.170 --> 2:50:59.769 on Axe this year. Proud to be on the list 2:50:59.790 --> 2:51:04.970 with Alternative for Deutschland, Martin Selner, Elon Musk, Renaud Camus 2:51:05.070 --> 2:51:08.480 and Donald Trump. Together, we're pushing the Overton window in 2:51:08.540 --> 2:51:09.080 real time. 2:51:09.420 --> 2:51:11.129 So she knows what she's doing. 2:51:11.150 --> 2:51:12.050 A hundred percent. 2:51:12.190 --> 2:51:15.170 Not only does she know, she said it. She knows 2:51:15.209 --> 2:51:16.910 what she's doing, but she's not smart enough to know 2:51:16.950 --> 2:51:18.130 she shouldn't tell you she knows. 2:51:19.470 --> 2:51:19.629 Yeah. 2:51:20.110 --> 2:51:22.879 You're not supposed to say, I know all I'm doing 2:51:22.920 --> 2:51:25.500 is pushing the Overton window. I'm here to throw a 2:51:25.540 --> 2:51:27.220 brick through the Overton fucking window. 2:51:27.240 --> 2:51:30.220 Girl, shut up. My job is to push you all 2:51:30.240 --> 2:51:30.760 to the right. 2:51:31.379 --> 2:51:34.080 My job is to defenestrate you through the Overton window. 2:51:34.100 --> 2:51:34.180 Yeah. 2:51:36.550 --> 2:51:39.610 Yeah, I would say that talking about the Overton window, right, 2:51:39.629 --> 2:51:41.070 and talking about this being a list on Twitter is 2:51:41.110 --> 2:51:44.029 a perfect illustration of how the alienation that people feel 2:51:44.129 --> 2:51:46.950 under capitalism has made them so vulnerable to this shit. 2:51:47.590 --> 2:51:50.920 Because I understand that it is fucking hard for people 2:51:50.959 --> 2:51:54.020 in Europe as it is here, right? Existing as a 2:51:54.100 --> 2:51:57.300 working person is fucking hard. Paying your bills is hard. 2:51:57.640 --> 2:52:01.170 It's not getting any easier, especially now that petrol slash 2:52:01.200 --> 2:52:05.940 gas is even more expensive. But like, Because people are 2:52:05.980 --> 2:52:10.060 increasingly alienated, it's easier and easier to do this scapegoating bullshit. 2:52:10.760 --> 2:52:13.300 It just happens that we've found someone who's stupid enough 2:52:13.320 --> 2:52:16.939 to basically say that. But that is the basis of 2:52:17.000 --> 2:52:20.310 the entire right around the world right now, is blaming 2:52:20.340 --> 2:52:22.890 the things that capitalism has done to us on people 2:52:22.930 --> 2:52:25.090 who have suffered more under capitalism than anyone. 2:52:25.410 --> 2:52:29.090 And Elon Musk's ownership of Twitter has made spreading that 2:52:29.170 --> 2:52:33.080 message so much easier than it would have been otherwise. 2:52:33.600 --> 2:52:37.760 But he's like, he's algorithmically boosting and disseminating this at 2:52:37.940 --> 2:52:39.700 a scale that's previously unheard of. 2:52:40.070 --> 2:52:40.279 Yeah. 2:52:40.440 --> 2:52:41.830 For these kinds of ideas. 2:52:42.470 --> 2:52:45.970 Especially when you've got so many journalists on Twitter so much. 2:52:46.410 --> 2:52:48.670 Like that's where they get a sense of the debate. Yeah. 2:52:49.070 --> 2:52:52.130 There yeah and because these journalists are so used to 2:52:52.190 --> 2:52:54.690 pulling their stories from just like shit they saw on 2:52:54.730 --> 2:52:57.230 twitter yeah that they think these ideas must be very 2:52:57.270 --> 2:53:00.000 popular we must engage with them we must write a 2:53:00.160 --> 2:53:03.160 million fucking stories about these posts we saw on twitter 2:53:03.500 --> 2:53:07.379 because they obviously represent a very important discourse for society 2:53:07.420 --> 2:53:10.240 right now and they don't they don't stop doing it. 2:53:10.760 --> 2:53:14.359 Yeah Speaking of journalists, please follow me on Blue Sky 2:53:14.540 --> 2:53:21.000 at Two Sober Possums if you want to criticize my poor. 2:53:20.800 --> 2:53:21.940 Attempt at journalism. 2:53:22.420 --> 2:53:24.390 But yeah, I wanted to take this last bit to 2:53:24.410 --> 2:53:28.470 highlight some instances of political violence in the Netherlands. All 2:53:28.490 --> 2:53:33.129 of these incidents happened between late April and now, this year. 2:53:33.350 --> 2:53:33.830 Oh my God. 2:53:34.530 --> 2:53:37.570 I'm not attributing it to the Safe Europe Act because 2:53:38.330 --> 2:53:41.820 the discourse has been toxic for a while now. But 2:53:42.140 --> 2:53:45.440 I also can say that it has a non-zero effect 2:53:45.980 --> 2:53:49.340 because maybe I've had my head in the sand for years, 2:53:49.910 --> 2:53:53.490 but this level of violence is pretty unheard of here. 2:53:53.930 --> 2:53:55.550 And it's all part of the same sort of ambient 2:53:56.110 --> 2:53:59.010 raising of the temperature on this topic. And they know 2:53:59.030 --> 2:54:01.010 they're contributing to that. So, of course, you can't say 2:54:01.050 --> 2:54:04.470 they're directly responsible for these attacks. They're not directing them, 2:54:05.070 --> 2:54:07.289 but they're raising the temperature and they know this contributes 2:54:07.330 --> 2:54:09.940 to that. Especially, I don't know, a guy who received 2:54:09.980 --> 2:54:13.000 a large sum of money from Brenton Tarrant shortly before 2:54:13.060 --> 2:54:15.660 he murdered 51 people in two mosques in New Zealand. 2:54:15.800 --> 2:54:17.359 I don't know. Maybe they know what they're doing. 2:54:17.379 --> 2:54:19.430 Anyway. Okay. 2:54:19.930 --> 2:54:22.690 I'm not going too deeply into these instances because then 2:54:22.750 --> 2:54:25.750 we'd have, like, we'll add another hour or two to 2:54:25.850 --> 2:54:28.449 this already long recording session. 2:54:28.570 --> 2:54:28.869 Yeah. 2:54:29.270 --> 2:54:32.340 I'm also sorry for all the Dutch words because our 2:54:32.379 --> 2:54:34.240 towns are not named in English words. 2:54:34.860 --> 2:54:35.020 Yeah. 2:54:35.500 --> 2:54:39.490 So, the town of Loosdrecht. There was going to be 2:54:39.790 --> 2:54:44.709 a migrant center there. Severe destruction at the old municipal building, 2:54:44.990 --> 2:54:48.450 which was used to house them. Doors and windows destroyed 2:54:49.010 --> 2:54:52.390 near the end of April. In early May, also in Loosdrecht, 2:54:52.550 --> 2:54:55.430 the same building caught on fire due to torches and 2:54:55.480 --> 2:54:57.260 heavy fireworks being thrown at it. 2:54:57.900 --> 2:54:58.379 Jesus. 2:54:58.440 --> 2:55:02.699 Migrants were inside this building when it caught on fire. 2:55:02.980 --> 2:55:03.119 Fuck. 2:55:03.860 --> 2:55:07.390 To my knowledge the harm to people was minimal or 2:55:07.430 --> 2:55:11.690 non-existent but still they threw fireworks and torches to the 2:55:11.750 --> 2:55:16.490 point that this building caught on fire yeah the psychological damage. 2:55:16.190 --> 2:55:19.220 Is still very real yeah okay this is my personal 2:55:19.250 --> 2:55:23.459 little tangent but our prime minister has not called these 2:55:23.540 --> 2:55:28.140 things terrorism well by any definition of the word this 2:55:28.200 --> 2:55:31.920 is fucking terrorism yeah like this is political violence and 2:55:32.320 --> 2:55:34.910 used to either scare people away or scare people into 2:55:34.940 --> 2:55:37.770 submission and bypassing the democratic. 2:55:37.370 --> 2:55:39.270 Process in the meantime. 2:55:39.690 --> 2:55:43.109 So also in early May in the town of Engelen, 2:55:43.930 --> 2:55:48.129 an explosion caused by heavy fireworks destroyed mainly glass windows 2:55:48.310 --> 2:55:52.820 at a center for underage migrants. Further, houses and carts 2:55:53.040 --> 2:55:58.480 of either pro-migration citizens, note not activists, just citizens with 2:55:58.500 --> 2:56:02.390 an opinion, were vandalized with slurs and threats. One of 2:56:02.430 --> 2:56:06.230 the cars was stolen and driven into a body of water. Again, 2:56:06.510 --> 2:56:10.470 this was minor vandalism. Not minor, this was vandalism. 2:56:10.570 --> 2:56:12.270 According to our PM. 2:56:12.820 --> 2:56:15.420 Among the targets were people who were not even explicitly 2:56:15.480 --> 2:56:18.860 in favor of having this center, but simply stated that 2:56:18.879 --> 2:56:21.460 they had the desire to have a good faith debate 2:56:21.500 --> 2:56:28.379 and conversation around it, which is reasonable. May 13th, Loosdrecht again. Again, 2:56:28.459 --> 2:56:31.619 torches and fireworks everywhere. the fire department had to come 2:56:31.680 --> 2:56:35.350 in at that time. Also May 13th in another town 2:56:35.410 --> 2:56:40.810 called Appeldoorn, riots for five consecutive days, including abuse of 2:56:40.890 --> 2:56:44.820 police and security. Later in May, fireworks were thrown through 2:56:44.840 --> 2:56:47.240 the windows of the municipal building and theater in the 2:56:47.280 --> 2:56:51.560 town of IJsselstein, the town of Uithjeist at roughly the 2:56:51.600 --> 2:56:55.750 same time. A explosive constructed out of fireworks was thrown 2:56:56.100 --> 2:57:00.040 through the window during a municipal meeting. And this was 2:57:00.120 --> 2:57:03.550 part of a larger set of violent incidents, again, mainly 2:57:03.570 --> 2:57:08.750 involving like torches and fireworks. June 18th, a pipe bomb 2:57:08.950 --> 2:57:12.220 was found at a migrant center in nunen the explosive 2:57:12.340 --> 2:57:14.300 ordnance unit had to cut had to be a cold 2:57:14.340 --> 2:57:17.080 in in order to clean it up windows were broken 2:57:17.120 --> 2:57:20.580 and a small fire broke out this was the third 2:57:20.620 --> 2:57:24.850 instance of destruction at this particular building not great I've 2:57:24.900 --> 2:57:28.640 witnessed some of these people protesting, and I'm using the 2:57:28.900 --> 2:57:33.940 heaviest air quotes possible there. It's just fucking hooligans wanting 2:57:33.959 --> 2:57:38.240 to riot. Racist fucking hooligans as well. The Save Europe 2:57:38.300 --> 2:57:40.960 Act is not explicitly calling for this. 2:57:41.580 --> 2:57:42.260 It doesn't have to. 2:57:42.320 --> 2:57:43.100 It doesn't have to. 2:57:43.300 --> 2:57:45.800 It doesn't have to, and they know that. 2:57:45.879 --> 2:57:47.240 It's laying the groundwork. 2:57:47.260 --> 2:57:50.220 They know it's more effective for them to just raise 2:57:50.260 --> 2:57:52.940 the temperature and put the implication out there. 2:57:53.720 --> 2:57:56.600 Yeah, and then wave their hands in the air and say, oh, 2:57:56.660 --> 2:57:57.800 I don't know how this happened. 2:57:58.780 --> 2:58:01.039 I didn't say that. I never said they should do that. 2:58:01.440 --> 2:58:04.400 But you know. No, you didn't give these people a 2:58:04.459 --> 2:58:05.599 baby kicking class. 2:58:05.680 --> 2:58:08.720 There's no proof Hitler called for the industrialized mass murder 2:58:08.760 --> 2:58:11.759 of the Jews. There's no proof that Hitler explicitly directed 2:58:11.800 --> 2:58:13.860 for the Holocaust to happen, is there? But he's still 2:58:13.900 --> 2:58:14.830 responsible for it. 2:58:15.200 --> 2:58:17.980 That's what they're going for, right? They're going for like 2:58:18.740 --> 2:58:24.320 a structuralist approach. To mass violence against migrants, like creating 2:58:24.379 --> 2:58:26.100 a structure where it takes care of itself. 2:58:26.160 --> 2:58:29.000 You create the conditions where it becomes inevitable. 2:58:29.370 --> 2:58:31.810 Yeah. And then you deny responsibility. 2:58:32.050 --> 2:58:34.449 You're not giving them the baby kicking class, but you're 2:58:34.490 --> 2:58:37.450 giving them a bunch of babies and pointing them towards 2:58:37.510 --> 2:58:40.310 the building where they teach the baby kicking class. 2:58:40.980 --> 2:58:44.039 Again, there's a reason it matters so much that he 2:58:44.080 --> 2:58:46.860 was emailing back and forth with Brent and Tarrant because 2:58:46.879 --> 2:58:49.800 they have the exact same ideas about what the problem is. 2:58:50.440 --> 2:58:54.810 They are just personally going about different versions of the solution. 2:58:54.830 --> 2:58:55.590 Yeah. 2:58:56.470 --> 2:59:00.310 Yeah, that was the most horrifying thing about it. And also, 2:59:00.730 --> 2:59:02.870 I'm so disappointed in so much media here in the 2:59:02.910 --> 2:59:06.590 Netherlands that any time they even mention Martin Sellner, the 2:59:06.690 --> 2:59:08.740 best they can do is that he received that donation. 2:59:09.250 --> 2:59:12.760 But nothing about, oh, he destroyed evidence of his contact 2:59:12.800 --> 2:59:16.010 with him. He possibly would have met him. they agreed 2:59:16.110 --> 2:59:19.230 on stuff while tarrant was radical enough to plan and 2:59:19.310 --> 2:59:23.550 it's like a fucking massacre it's lazy journalism yeah like 2:59:23.770 --> 2:59:25.970 i'm sure i make plenty mistakes but i'm also not 2:59:26.150 --> 2:59:28.060 making my living out of it or claiming that i'm 2:59:28.250 --> 2:59:32.080 super great at it but yeah you you could at 2:59:32.120 --> 2:59:36.060 least pretend you're going beyond something as surface level as 2:59:37.000 --> 2:59:40.359 oh he made a donation okay fair that's it It's like, no, 2:59:40.379 --> 2:59:44.310 these guys were ideologically aligned enough to possibly meet. 2:59:44.760 --> 2:59:48.070 And that is a very explicit and obvious connection, right? 2:59:48.110 --> 2:59:51.410 But all these other attacks and these people being burned 2:59:51.450 --> 2:59:56.410 in buildings, that's the same relationship, just without the exchange 2:59:56.450 --> 2:59:56.789 of money. 2:59:57.209 --> 3:00:00.590 You can only tell people that some people will finally 3:00:00.629 --> 3:00:04.450 come to kill them unless they come into action, which 3:00:04.530 --> 3:00:07.890 is not a legal thing. Not provable in the court 3:00:07.930 --> 3:00:10.010 of law inciting people to do violence. 3:00:10.470 --> 3:00:13.590 And I'm not arguing legal liability. I'm not arguing legal liability. 3:00:13.610 --> 3:00:17.370 I'm just saying there is a moral and ideological culpability here. 3:00:17.410 --> 3:00:21.390 That there is a visible relationship between these things that 3:00:21.430 --> 3:00:25.010 exists outside the framework of legal culpability, legal liability here. 3:00:25.030 --> 3:00:28.830 But there is a relationship between these events. And they 3:00:28.920 --> 3:00:31.129 know that. And we need to be honest about it. 3:00:31.260 --> 3:00:35.100 It's a moral culpability. I hate the facade. 3:00:35.530 --> 3:00:37.930 That they put up like oh this is all anti-democratic 3:00:37.950 --> 3:00:40.970 that they cancelled it and uh they're just out for 3:00:41.010 --> 3:00:44.400 us like i i hate that i even have to 3:00:44.560 --> 3:00:46.330 sort of engage on their terms. 3:00:46.400 --> 3:00:49.180 You don't that's the beauty of it you don't. 3:00:49.360 --> 3:00:51.400 Yeah yeah you don't you don't yeah you don't have 3:00:51.420 --> 3:00:54.800 to debate these people in their like debate where they 3:00:54.820 --> 3:00:56.360 don't acknowledge facts like no. 3:00:56.760 --> 3:01:00.379 But also look oh also broader because they have a platform. 3:01:00.500 --> 3:01:03.379 They can say things and you can ignore it, but 3:01:03.440 --> 3:01:05.430 other people who enjoy it will read it. 3:01:05.420 --> 3:01:05.600 Right. 3:01:05.620 --> 3:01:07.530 And I'm not saying ignore it and it will go away. 3:01:07.570 --> 3:01:11.349 I'm just saying engaging with the existence of these ideas 3:01:11.709 --> 3:01:14.010 does not mean you have to engage with what they 3:01:14.070 --> 3:01:17.330 are saying in the way that they want you to. 3:01:17.370 --> 3:01:19.140 You don't have to engage in a good faith debate 3:01:19.190 --> 3:01:23.640 with them, with their ideas, with their stated purpose. You 3:01:23.660 --> 3:01:26.560 can engage with the idea that you know is underneath. 3:01:26.140 --> 3:01:29.400 Of But I mean, more in the sense of like 3:01:29.980 --> 3:01:34.039 engaging with it on a, in the discourse, because other 3:01:34.080 --> 3:01:36.340 people will pick up on the ideas. And if you 3:01:36.360 --> 3:01:39.620 want to have trying to have a civil conversation with 3:01:39.660 --> 3:01:43.640 people who've been influenced by the ideas, then like indirectly, 3:01:43.680 --> 3:01:46.290 you still have to engage with them. And even that 3:01:46.370 --> 3:01:51.050 is becoming difficult because they become these two like different realities. 3:01:51.810 --> 3:01:51.970 Yeah. 3:01:52.820 --> 3:01:56.100 Because they're not interested in having a debate with you. 3:01:57.459 --> 3:02:01.039 At the risk of reading another long quote, this reminds 3:02:01.060 --> 3:02:03.379 me of something that I come back to a lot 3:02:03.600 --> 3:02:06.080 in this particular debate, in this debate of do we 3:02:06.120 --> 3:02:07.949 have to engage with them? Do we have to debate them? 3:02:08.990 --> 3:02:11.810 The answer is no. And the question has been answered. 3:02:11.870 --> 3:02:15.670 So Sartre wrote an essay in 1946. So in post-war France, 3:02:16.310 --> 3:02:19.340 Nazis had occupied France and there were a lot of 3:02:19.350 --> 3:02:22.420 Nazi sympathizers. The essay was called The Anti-Semite and Jew. 3:02:23.290 --> 3:02:25.470 And this is a passage that I come back to 3:02:25.530 --> 3:02:30.209 a lot for this particular question. Never believe that anti-Semites 3:02:30.250 --> 3:02:33.970 are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They 3:02:34.030 --> 3:02:37.570 know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But 3:02:37.590 --> 3:02:40.580 they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who 3:02:40.610 --> 3:02:44.260 is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. 3:02:45.080 --> 3:02:48.060 The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like 3:02:48.100 --> 3:02:50.720 to play with their discourse, for by giving ridiculous reasons, 3:02:51.040 --> 3:02:55.150 they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in 3:02:55.270 --> 3:02:58.029 acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade 3:02:58.090 --> 3:03:03.630 by sound argument, but to intimidate and disconcert. They don't 3:03:03.650 --> 3:03:06.430 want to debate you. They want to change the terms 3:03:06.490 --> 3:03:08.269 of what that debate looks like. 3:03:08.590 --> 3:03:09.260 So don't do it. 3:03:09.840 --> 3:03:12.420 Don't do it. The question is, the question asked and answered. 3:03:13.500 --> 3:03:15.679 Yeah, like we don't have to engage them on terms 3:03:15.720 --> 3:03:18.800 of their choosing where they get to define the very 3:03:18.900 --> 3:03:22.900 like outlines of reality, which as you said, make results 3:03:22.940 --> 3:03:25.720 in something which is completely distinct from actual reality. And 3:03:25.760 --> 3:03:29.360 it's not worth arguing with someone. I think the Sartre 3:03:29.400 --> 3:03:32.230 quote would be a good place to finish up because 3:03:32.280 --> 3:03:35.150 I think that's probably the most pertinent thing people could 3:03:35.190 --> 3:03:36.890 take from this. I hope you all are not having 3:03:36.930 --> 3:03:38.250 to debate this with your families. 3:03:38.830 --> 3:03:42.430 So engage with, engage with the idea, take the threat seriously. 3:03:42.840 --> 3:03:45.160 But you don't have to engage with the guy trying 3:03:45.220 --> 3:03:47.640 to engage with you on a debate. Don't let him 3:03:47.700 --> 3:03:48.279 set the terms. 3:03:48.780 --> 3:03:51.240 Now, I fear I've come off a bit wrong there, but. 3:03:51.720 --> 3:03:54.670 I'm not arguing with you. This is, again, like for 3:03:54.700 --> 3:03:56.550 the listener, because I think this is a place a 3:03:56.590 --> 3:03:59.410 lot of people find themselves like, well, this guy is wrong. 3:03:59.450 --> 3:04:01.350 He's saying these things that are incorrect. I should have 3:04:01.370 --> 3:04:04.310 a factual debate with him. And that's what he wants. 3:04:04.530 --> 3:04:07.530 It's very tempting. And it may feel like the right 3:04:07.570 --> 3:04:11.129 thing to do, but you can't win. No matter how 3:04:11.209 --> 3:04:12.990 right you are, no matter how wrong he is, you 3:04:13.010 --> 3:04:15.360 will not win this debate because that's not the point. 3:04:16.100 --> 3:04:19.400 Yeah, I think it is always worth reinforcing this, especially 3:04:19.440 --> 3:04:21.240 with this show. We have so many people who are 3:04:21.260 --> 3:04:24.100 so new to this and they haven't been doing this 3:04:24.140 --> 3:04:25.320 for 10, 15, 20 years. And it can seem. 3:04:27.920 --> 3:04:29.640 Oh, let's go on x.com and I'll tell them they're 3:04:29.660 --> 3:04:32.320 wrong and it'll be fine. But like, yeah, you're playing 3:04:32.360 --> 3:04:35.260 in the Nazi sandbox and they get to choose like 3:04:35.300 --> 3:04:37.020 how big the box is and what the sand looks like. 3:04:37.080 --> 3:04:38.920 It's not going to go well for you. 3:04:39.320 --> 3:04:41.879 And they want to have that argument with you because 3:04:41.920 --> 3:04:44.720 the louder the argument is, the more people will hear 3:04:44.760 --> 3:04:47.119 it and the more people will be exposed to the 3:04:47.280 --> 3:04:48.760 unserious shit that they are saying. 3:04:48.940 --> 3:04:49.150 Yeah. 3:04:49.410 --> 3:04:51.030 It dignifies them with a response. 3:04:51.550 --> 3:04:53.250 It makes it look like something worth arguing about. 3:04:54.100 --> 3:04:55.640 It's playing chess with a pigeon. 3:04:55.959 --> 3:04:58.680 No matter how good I am at chess, the pigeon 3:04:58.720 --> 3:05:01.359 will strut around on the board, knock over the pieces, 3:05:01.540 --> 3:05:05.420 take a big shit on the board, and strut around. 3:05:05.220 --> 3:05:06.140 Like it's victorious. 3:05:07.000 --> 3:05:09.800 And now the headline is, pigeon plays chess. 3:05:10.120 --> 3:05:11.000 Isn't that impressive? 3:05:11.040 --> 3:05:13.539 The pigeon, even if he didn't win, isn't it amazing 3:05:13.560 --> 3:05:14.120 that he played? 3:05:15.840 --> 3:05:18.060 I'm going to find a nice void to scream in 3:05:18.300 --> 3:05:19.380 for a good minute. 3:05:20.480 --> 3:05:20.820 Yeah. 3:05:21.800 --> 3:05:22.740 Okay. Dr. 3:05:22.780 --> 3:05:24.680 James Stout, anything you want to plug. 3:05:25.379 --> 3:05:25.679 Dr. 3:05:25.720 --> 3:05:26.119 Stout. 3:05:26.200 --> 3:05:31.330 Dr. Stout, yes. Yeah. Having shat on dissertations. Molly, you 3:05:31.370 --> 3:05:33.410 have a show where we could learn more about Nazis 3:05:33.470 --> 3:05:35.330 and the stupid shit they go after, wouldn't you? 3:05:35.490 --> 3:05:38.410 Oh my gosh. Actually, the reason I'm so passionate about 3:05:38.470 --> 3:05:40.130 not arguing with these people on their terms is because 3:05:40.150 --> 3:05:42.820 I've been writing a lot about race science and eugenics lately. 3:05:42.860 --> 3:05:46.000 And so this sort of Trojan horsing this argument into 3:05:46.020 --> 3:05:48.720 the discourse in bad faith is something I'm very mad 3:05:48.760 --> 3:05:50.199 about this week because I just read a bunch of 3:05:50.240 --> 3:05:53.120 books about race science. So if you want to hear 3:05:53.140 --> 3:05:54.699 about that, if you want to hear the fruit of 3:05:54.750 --> 3:05:57.890 that frustration, you can listen to Weird Little Guys wherever 3:05:57.930 --> 3:05:58.870 you get your podcasts. 3:05:59.690 --> 3:06:00.090 Oh, yeah. 3:06:01.030 --> 3:06:04.060 I have a podcast called Natural Causes where, unfortunately, I 3:06:04.640 --> 3:06:07.900 have made four episodes and I have already had to 3:06:07.940 --> 3:06:10.760 confront the scope of the fucking Neo-Rhodesians. 3:06:10.959 --> 3:06:11.860 They're everywhere. 3:06:12.520 --> 3:06:15.840 Yeah, well, the Washington State National Guard responding to the 3:06:15.860 --> 3:06:17.760 little giant fire specifically, I guess. 3:06:17.980 --> 3:06:21.360 For a country that never existed, wasn't very big, and 3:06:21.470 --> 3:06:24.129 only pretended to exist for a couple of years, if 3:06:24.150 --> 3:06:26.230 you're looking at Nazi shit, they just keep coming back. 3:06:26.830 --> 3:06:30.709 Yeah, also, if you're responding to a large fire, and 3:06:30.750 --> 3:06:34.300 you're thinking, which white nationalist flag should I take? That 3:06:34.350 --> 3:06:37.779 is probably the least appropriate, right? Like, if we consider 3:06:37.820 --> 3:06:38.340 how Rhodesia ended. 3:06:38.360 --> 3:06:40.379 What would you say would be the most appropriate white 3:06:40.420 --> 3:06:41.100 nationalist flag? 3:06:41.440 --> 3:06:44.140 One of the, surely one of the repurposed Viking ones, 3:06:44.160 --> 3:06:45.940 because they love to fire, right? Like if I was 3:06:45.990 --> 3:06:48.449 going that route. Good answer, good answer. Yeah, thank you. 3:06:48.490 --> 3:06:51.050 I think about this a lot. Yeah, if you work 3:06:51.110 --> 3:06:53.030 for the Seattle Times, you can listen to my podcast, 3:06:53.070 --> 3:06:57.189 deal my story and not attribute it. If you're anyone else, yeah, 3:06:57.209 --> 3:06:58.830 you can listen to my podcast and hear about how 3:06:58.879 --> 3:06:59.820 going outside is political. 3:07:00.980 --> 3:07:04.820 I don't have any other podcasts. I try to keep 3:07:04.860 --> 3:07:06.990 my mental health somewhat intact. 3:07:07.270 --> 3:07:09.150 What a way to live. I'm so happy for you. 3:07:09.270 --> 3:07:10.530 Insofar as that's possible. 3:07:10.550 --> 3:07:10.619 Wow. 3:07:13.570 --> 3:07:14.630 Sick burn on us, James. 3:07:14.709 --> 3:07:18.170 Yeah, owned again. I just have a much less tolerance 3:07:18.230 --> 3:07:21.070 for this than you guys. You're much better at it. 3:07:21.709 --> 3:07:22.370 It's broken us. 3:07:22.510 --> 3:07:25.660 So if you want to contact me for some reason, 3:07:26.250 --> 3:07:28.820 it's now on Blue Sky at Two Sober Possums. 3:07:29.440 --> 3:07:31.540 For the love of God, don't ask me for feed pics. 3:07:32.000 --> 3:07:35.720 I will not send them. And confront fascists in a 3:07:35.780 --> 3:07:38.300 peaceful way when they gather, I suppose. 3:07:38.940 --> 3:07:54.530 Yeah. This is It Could Happen Here, Executive Disorder, our 3:07:54.550 --> 3:07:56.970 weekly newscast covering what's happening in the White House, the 3:07:57.050 --> 3:08:00.380 crumbling world, and what this means for you. I'm Garrison Davis. 3:08:00.400 --> 3:08:04.670 Today I'm joined by James Stout, Mia Wong, and Robert Evans. 3:08:04.920 --> 3:08:07.960 This episode we are covering the week of October 14th 3:08:08.100 --> 3:08:09.859 to October 21st. 3:08:10.740 --> 3:08:11.520 Diva down. 3:08:12.560 --> 3:08:16.660 I am sad to report the new White House press secretary, 3:08:17.100 --> 3:08:21.350 Katie Zachariah, Was fired after just five days on the job. 3:08:21.370 --> 3:08:21.830 R.I.P. 3:08:21.910 --> 3:08:24.070 You guys can't see it, but I'm pouring a 40 3:08:24.070 --> 3:08:25.170 out for her right now. 3:08:25.310 --> 3:08:27.410 It is all over my floor. This is going to 3:08:27.430 --> 3:08:28.490 cause damage to the wood. 3:08:29.090 --> 3:08:30.430 This is half a Scaramucci. 3:08:31.250 --> 3:08:34.170 Is it half? I thought it was 70% of a Scaramucci. 3:08:34.350 --> 3:08:36.379 Half a Scaramucci. Scaramucci was 10 days. 3:08:36.820 --> 3:08:38.440 She was five days. She was only for five. I 3:08:38.500 --> 3:08:40.099 heard seven for some reason. 3:08:41.060 --> 3:08:41.360 Good to know. 3:08:42.290 --> 3:08:45.769 Maybe it's that Scaramucci did more press conferences because she 3:08:45.830 --> 3:08:47.570 only did one press conference. 3:08:47.690 --> 3:08:51.530 That's all it took. Before being fired. That's all it took. 3:08:52.310 --> 3:08:54.550 To give a sense, I was camping without signal for 3:08:54.570 --> 3:08:56.650 the entire duration of her career and didn't know who 3:08:56.690 --> 3:09:01.750 she was. You missed an entire press secretary? Yes. I 3:09:01.790 --> 3:09:04.590 am a journalist who covers this shit and I completely 3:09:04.629 --> 3:09:05.130 missed her. 3:09:06.250 --> 3:09:10.300 Her firing came after poor reception to her first performance. 3:09:11.050 --> 3:09:15.120 and reporting scrutinizing her claims about being a lawyer, despite 3:09:15.200 --> 3:09:20.859 not passing the bar exam. Trump told her, quote, Honestly, 3:09:21.040 --> 3:09:25.279 if I were you, I'd reconsider. Is this for you, Katie? 3:09:25.660 --> 3:09:28.840 Because honestly, you don't need this, unquote. 3:09:29.770 --> 3:09:30.449 She sure doesn't. 3:09:30.950 --> 3:09:35.090 One of the funniest Trump exchanges I've ever read. 3:09:35.390 --> 3:09:39.010 Yeah, wow, really coming in with empathy. Is this for you, Katie? 3:09:39.250 --> 3:09:40.010 You don't need this. 3:09:41.250 --> 3:09:42.929 Trump channeling HR manager. 3:09:43.379 --> 3:09:44.080 It's incredible. 3:09:44.110 --> 3:09:48.280 Yeah, no, he's handling this very delicately by most accounts. 3:09:48.920 --> 3:09:52.300 Politico reported that Trump told the White House officials Katie had, quote, 3:09:52.400 --> 3:09:55.900 no talent and shouldn't be on TV. But the White 3:09:55.940 --> 3:09:59.519 House disputes this. And the White House says that she is, quote, 3:09:59.879 --> 3:10:04.400 transitioning to a new role, though Katie said on Twitter 3:10:04.440 --> 3:10:07.000 it was, quote, an honor to work for Trump in 3:10:07.040 --> 3:10:09.680 the past tense. So who knows what she's going to 3:10:09.700 --> 3:10:12.900 be up to in the future sure incredible but yeah 3:10:12.920 --> 3:10:14.780 no we have lost out on a lot of potential 3:10:14.840 --> 3:10:17.170 content in the future so pour one out for all 3:10:17.180 --> 3:10:20.210 the all the podcasters out there who is relying on 3:10:20.750 --> 3:10:24.090 years of press conferences to mine content. 3:10:24.470 --> 3:10:27.150 Yeah Saturday Night Live's got to be really fucking scrambling 3:10:27.270 --> 3:10:29.789 after that oh my god yeah damn. 3:10:29.650 --> 3:10:32.990 Yeah I mean you know sometimes a beautiful thing comes 3:10:33.030 --> 3:10:34.590 into your life and it's just there for a little 3:10:34.610 --> 3:10:36.430 while and all we can do is enjoy the time 3:10:36.470 --> 3:10:37.890 we had together with what's her. 3:10:37.810 --> 3:10:40.070 Name Yeah, what's her name? 3:10:40.670 --> 3:10:42.270 I know her name, man. Like I said, I was 3:10:42.310 --> 3:10:43.190 camping the whole time. 3:10:44.110 --> 3:10:46.310 Luckily for us, we have so many things to cover, 3:10:46.430 --> 3:10:52.780 so we'll be fine. Everyone else, in danger. Us, deluged. 3:10:54.120 --> 3:10:57.120 Speaking of other things to cover, threatening letters containing a 3:10:57.160 --> 3:11:00.019 mysterious white powder have been sent to the offices of 3:11:00.100 --> 3:11:04.109 over three dozen congressional representatives and election offices across at 3:11:04.150 --> 3:11:07.760 least 32 states. At least one of these letters, sent 3:11:07.820 --> 3:11:11.990 to Democratic Congresswoman Hillary Scholten of Michigan, made a quote, 3:11:12.410 --> 3:11:16.810 direct and specific reference to an impending civil war beginning 3:11:17.050 --> 3:11:22.060 after the election, according to the Congresswoman. And interestingly, according 3:11:22.240 --> 3:11:26.599 to Scholten, the letter claimed to be from the Democratic 3:11:26.720 --> 3:11:31.780 Socialists of America. Yeah. So I guess they're kind of 3:11:32.340 --> 3:11:37.420 moving beyond labor organizing and electoral reform towards some much 3:11:37.459 --> 3:11:40.840 more interesting tactics. This, of course, is not true. The 3:11:40.860 --> 3:11:45.320 DSA did not send letters containing mysterious white powder, the 3:11:45.360 --> 3:11:48.750 implication being it could be anthrax. It has not been 3:11:48.810 --> 3:11:53.010 found to be anthrax or dangerous. Usually when letters are 3:11:53.050 --> 3:11:57.750 received containing white powder, that is the sort of implicit threat. Nice. 3:11:57.820 --> 3:11:58.000 Nice. 3:11:58.010 --> 3:11:58.250 Nice. Nice. 3:12:20.760 --> 3:12:24.420 The DSA has allowed extremists in its movement, which not 3:12:24.560 --> 3:12:28.470 only allow, but justify violence as a viable means to 3:12:28.530 --> 3:12:29.789 achieve political ends. 3:12:30.070 --> 3:12:30.690 Unquote. 3:12:31.450 --> 3:12:34.150 Man, this sort of kicked out all my friends who 3:12:34.190 --> 3:12:36.650 were doing, who were being street medics. Like, come on. 3:12:36.850 --> 3:12:38.770 They don't got the juice for it. I mean, it's 3:12:38.790 --> 3:12:39.570 not even the juice. 3:12:39.610 --> 3:12:42.530 Like, no one in the DSA is doing anthrax letters. 3:12:42.610 --> 3:12:43.420 Come on. 3:12:43.430 --> 3:12:43.660 Yeah. 3:12:43.690 --> 3:12:44.500 Yeah. 3:12:45.910 --> 3:12:49.480 DSA told CBS, quote, Needless to say, we are not 3:12:49.540 --> 3:12:51.560 involved with these letters and we are glad to learn 3:12:51.580 --> 3:12:53.379 no one was harmed, unquote. 3:12:53.660 --> 3:12:54.520 What are we doing here? 3:12:55.560 --> 3:12:55.820 Yeah. 3:12:56.459 --> 3:12:59.340 If a bunch of amateurs with no like chemical and 3:12:59.360 --> 3:13:03.900 biological weapons experience were attempting to distribute anthrax around the country, 3:13:03.920 --> 3:13:06.279 you would hear about it first when they infected themselves 3:13:06.320 --> 3:13:07.060 with anthrax. 3:13:07.280 --> 3:13:10.250 Yeah. That would be the story. 3:13:10.260 --> 3:13:10.340 Yeah. 3:13:10.890 --> 3:13:13.410 You know, like it's worth mentioning, like, yeah, like this 3:13:13.470 --> 3:13:17.109 is a fairly common right wing tactic. This is not 3:13:17.150 --> 3:13:19.550 a thing where even you're sort of like, I don't know, 3:13:19.590 --> 3:13:22.110 you're like 1970s, like Red Brigades guys who are like 3:13:22.129 --> 3:13:23.270 kidnapping people off the streets. 3:13:23.290 --> 3:13:24.970 Like they didn't do this. 3:13:25.530 --> 3:13:29.420 No, because it's really hard and dangerous. It's really hard 3:13:29.480 --> 3:13:30.200 and dangerous. 3:13:30.220 --> 3:13:34.260 It's very much giving like learned about terrorism in the 1990s, 3:13:34.310 --> 3:13:37.290 hasn't paid much attention since and decided to do a hoax. 3:13:37.950 --> 3:13:41.379 Early 2000s, but yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, sure, early 2000s. 3:13:41.430 --> 3:13:45.269 Come on. I don't know, such a weird option to 3:13:45.290 --> 3:13:48.060 go with anthrax. I guess there are other white powders, 3:13:48.080 --> 3:13:50.280 so it's kind of an easy one to go with. 3:13:50.459 --> 3:13:52.980 I mean, yeah, they're just mailing a white powder. 3:13:53.000 --> 3:13:56.199 They're not mailing anthrax, right? It's just flour or something. 3:13:56.459 --> 3:13:59.050 It's a low-effort hoax, sure, yeah. Yeah. 3:13:59.490 --> 3:14:01.610 There's all sorts of white powders out there. 3:14:01.810 --> 3:14:03.920 There sure are. Powdered sugar. 3:14:04.360 --> 3:14:07.720 The Germans have this fake cocaine that's not intoxicating that 3:14:07.760 --> 3:14:09.580 comes in this little glass thing. 3:14:09.840 --> 3:14:11.710 If you just want to snort something, it's cute. 3:14:12.070 --> 3:14:12.370 Oh, wow. 3:14:12.930 --> 3:14:15.330 Snuff. No, it's not snuff. There's no drug in it 3:14:15.370 --> 3:14:18.370 at all. It's just basically like mint. Just like talcum powder. 3:14:18.390 --> 3:14:21.070 Yeah, it's just like something you can snort if you 3:14:21.090 --> 3:14:21.930 really need to snort. 3:14:22.110 --> 3:14:25.720 If your nose needs that stimulation. Germany's quite the place. 3:14:25.980 --> 3:14:26.180 Yeah. 3:14:26.620 --> 3:14:27.300 Thank you, Germans. 3:14:27.840 --> 3:14:28.080 Mm-hmm. 3:14:28.840 --> 3:14:31.420 So I heard from someone in Northern California this week, 3:14:31.580 --> 3:14:34.620 and it's a pretty credible source, that ICE agents have 3:14:34.640 --> 3:14:38.480 been seen outside the Sutter County Veterans Hall in Yuba City, 3:14:38.520 --> 3:14:41.180 which is a polling place. I didn't see any evidence 3:14:41.200 --> 3:14:43.580 that they were making detentions there or of people there 3:14:43.950 --> 3:14:46.970 or whether they were just using that as a staging area. 3:14:46.990 --> 3:14:49.970 I don't know. But this is something I'm really hyper 3:14:50.350 --> 3:14:53.950 focused on in the weeks coming up to this midterm election. Secondly, 3:14:54.090 --> 3:14:59.269 DHS is leaving TPS recipients from Ukraine, Sudan, and Limbo. 3:14:59.629 --> 3:15:03.530 It's not renewing their TPS, but it's not cancelling it either. 3:15:04.290 --> 3:15:07.240 So TPS generally is already a status which has to 3:15:07.270 --> 3:15:10.260 be renewed on a very fixed and short timeline, right? 3:15:10.280 --> 3:15:12.420 So it doesn't give people much permanence to begin with. 3:15:12.900 --> 3:15:15.160 But at this point, they have even less permanence, right? 3:15:15.200 --> 3:15:19.160 It makes it very hard for them to know what 3:15:19.180 --> 3:15:23.160 to do next. We saw... What happened to Haitian communities 3:15:23.280 --> 3:15:26.500 after the removal of that TPS, right? Yeah. Part of 3:15:26.540 --> 3:15:28.879 me wonders is if this is just like a, um, 3:15:29.459 --> 3:15:32.700 like a rate limiting thing for DHS, like they're still 3:15:32.750 --> 3:15:35.990 going hard on the TPS is they've already canceled and like, 3:15:36.030 --> 3:15:38.810 maybe they want to sort of divide and conquer with their, 3:15:39.090 --> 3:15:42.330 with their surges in different communities. Or if it's a 3:15:42.350 --> 3:15:45.810 pre midterm thing, because, uh, it is still somewhat unpopular 3:15:45.850 --> 3:15:49.310 to go after Ukraine. Next, I have CNN reporting that 3:15:49.370 --> 3:15:53.379 the Department of Defense is loaning an active denial system 3:15:53.440 --> 3:15:56.540 to CBP. This thing is often called a heat ray. 3:15:57.160 --> 3:15:59.080 The idea, of course, is that CBP might use it 3:15:59.100 --> 3:16:01.480 at the border for areas of high migrant traffic. They 3:16:01.520 --> 3:16:04.760 have experimented with this before. And what's interesting is that 3:16:04.780 --> 3:16:07.890 the Pentagon seem to have refused to have their people 3:16:07.930 --> 3:16:11.650 run the system or develop training tactics and procedures to 3:16:11.810 --> 3:16:14.750 use with the system. This is in line with how 3:16:14.770 --> 3:16:17.580 the Pentagon has previously approached this. They had these for 3:16:17.600 --> 3:16:21.200 like almost two decades and they took them to Afghanistan, 3:16:21.520 --> 3:16:25.010 but they never used them. I'm guessing they never used 3:16:25.050 --> 3:16:28.550 them because some jag somewhere was like, yeah, that's looking, 3:16:28.750 --> 3:16:32.310 that's giving war crimes. It's not a new technology, right? 3:16:32.590 --> 3:16:35.530 It's they've never really been able to find a place 3:16:35.570 --> 3:16:38.830 where they felt. And, uh, for, for younger folks, they 3:16:38.850 --> 3:16:40.609 did some shit during the war on terror, which is 3:16:40.650 --> 3:16:44.330 generally considered to be a flagrant violation of international law, 3:16:44.830 --> 3:16:48.670 but they didn't do this. CBP has evaluated it before 3:16:48.730 --> 3:16:51.519 too in the El Centro sector, when Rodney Scott, who's 3:16:51.560 --> 3:16:55.439 now CBP commissioner, was there. El Centro sector, of course, 3:16:55.580 --> 3:16:58.360 is ground zero for this shit, right? Greg Bovino, LHG 3:16:58.400 --> 3:17:02.230 patrol agent there. Obviously, this comes with massive human rights concerns, 3:17:02.310 --> 3:17:04.710 as well as international law concerns. If you're using some 3:17:04.790 --> 3:17:07.010 kind of heat ray to attack people who are not 3:17:07.090 --> 3:17:10.200 in the United States, it's The obvious other issue here 3:17:10.320 --> 3:17:12.060 is that we have fires all the fucking time at 3:17:12.080 --> 3:17:14.720 the border and turning on a heat ray is probably 3:17:14.740 --> 3:17:16.840 a great way to have more of them. I guess 3:17:16.860 --> 3:17:19.690 an interesting development, and this is right before we recorded, Hegsex, 3:17:20.230 --> 3:17:22.930 one of his deputy chiefs of staff, Patrick Weaver, used 3:17:23.030 --> 3:17:25.270 to be an advisor to Hegsex. He's bumped around a 3:17:25.310 --> 3:17:29.690 bunch of like Executive branch appointments, he posted, quote, the 3:17:29.730 --> 3:17:32.240 border is now a military installation and a battle lab 3:17:32.270 --> 3:17:35.800 for testing new systems to include directed energy weapons. The 3:17:35.840 --> 3:17:38.500 border is locked down. And then he posted a picture 3:17:38.520 --> 3:17:41.420 of the story. Just want to point out that, like, again, 3:17:41.520 --> 3:17:44.800 it's not Department of Defense staff using this. It would 3:17:44.820 --> 3:17:47.119 be CBP and CBP would have to develop a whole 3:17:47.140 --> 3:17:49.160 set of training tactics and procedures to do it before 3:17:49.200 --> 3:17:52.000 they used it. Last time they did it, they, they 3:17:52.020 --> 3:17:53.970 decided basically the juice wasn't worth the squeeze. 3:17:54.050 --> 3:17:54.250 Right. 3:17:54.280 --> 3:17:56.250 And especially in the El Centro sector at that time, 3:17:56.270 --> 3:17:59.369 people were coming through a lot of irrigation canals and 3:17:59.790 --> 3:18:03.629 the chances of somebody drowning large number of people drowning 3:18:03.690 --> 3:18:05.290 because you use this on them in a place where 3:18:05.330 --> 3:18:09.260 they're already in danger. Obviously they decided not to use it. 3:18:09.590 --> 3:18:10.930 So we'll keep an eye on that, I guess. 3:18:11.780 --> 3:18:15.820 This has also a very interesting like imperial boomerang effect 3:18:15.879 --> 3:18:19.379 of military technology then being used to the border. And 3:18:19.400 --> 3:18:22.440 then as we've seen across the country, that also increases 3:18:22.459 --> 3:18:26.960 the possibility of border patrol using this technology against American citizens. Yeah. 3:18:27.000 --> 3:18:29.940 Doing like crowd control, like in Portland in 2020, where 3:18:29.959 --> 3:18:34.400 they used a very specific LRAD that induced, you know, 3:18:34.900 --> 3:18:38.000 piercing headaches. The idea of this technology getting, you know, 3:18:38.300 --> 3:18:42.230 closer and closer to being used in within our national borders. 3:18:42.310 --> 3:18:44.470 I mean, as bad as it is that it exists, 3:18:44.510 --> 3:18:46.350 as bad as it is that CBP could use it 3:18:46.370 --> 3:18:48.869 at the border itself, which is its whole issue, this 3:18:48.890 --> 3:18:51.490 also kind of shows the tendency of this sort of 3:18:51.550 --> 3:18:54.670 development to get closer and closer to the imperial core. 3:18:54.690 --> 3:18:57.530 To the metropole, yeah. And I think that that's towards 3:18:57.550 --> 3:19:00.150 the end of the earth, right? Like Miller's book, Empire Borders, 3:19:00.170 --> 3:19:02.210 I don't know when that came out, but he talks 3:19:02.290 --> 3:19:07.070 about the US-Palestine border, the direct pathway, testing systems on 3:19:07.110 --> 3:19:10.050 Palestinian people to selling them to Border Patrol. And then, 3:19:10.090 --> 3:19:12.520 as you say, to them finding their way into the metropole. 3:19:12.560 --> 3:19:15.100 The whole country is experiencing now what we have experienced 3:19:15.140 --> 3:19:17.680 at the border, which is the state is either hostile 3:19:18.120 --> 3:19:22.190 or completely absent. And talking of that, in Pensacola, where 3:19:22.209 --> 3:19:25.369 people are working to repair from storm damage, I saw 3:19:25.410 --> 3:19:27.970 that ICE had come to arrest two roofers who were 3:19:28.030 --> 3:19:31.380 working to repair that storm damage. What you expect from 3:19:31.400 --> 3:19:34.720 the federal government is FEMA. FEMA is pretty much on 3:19:34.780 --> 3:19:38.000 its knees right now, but ICE has swallowed up all 3:19:38.040 --> 3:19:41.280 that funding, gobbled it up, and it's there. I think 3:19:41.320 --> 3:19:44.060 it resulted in like a, we're not coming down from 3:19:44.100 --> 3:19:46.600 the roof and eventually ICE leaving, which has happened in 3:19:46.640 --> 3:19:49.720 several cases specifically with roofers, right? Good for them. Glad 3:19:49.740 --> 3:19:52.940 they didn't get caught. Yeah, talking of weird DHS shit, 3:19:53.310 --> 3:19:55.709 the United States Coast Guard has released a bizarre promo 3:19:55.730 --> 3:19:58.830 video detailing their work in San Diego, which features... I 3:19:58.850 --> 3:20:00.810 think I would describe it as an emo cover of 3:20:00.910 --> 3:20:05.129 Pink Pony Club by Chapel Roan. What? It's real weird. 3:20:05.310 --> 3:20:05.590 Yeah. 3:20:05.850 --> 3:20:08.330 We can listen to it, but we don't have to. No, 3:20:08.410 --> 3:20:08.770 I'm good. 3:20:08.850 --> 3:20:09.910 I'm good. 3:20:09.950 --> 3:20:16.279 Yeah. Continuing in their trend of like trolling intellectual property, right? Finally, 3:20:16.320 --> 3:20:20.580 the Junto Miema is continuing to flounder in its assault 3:20:20.640 --> 3:20:25.020 on Rakhine or Arakas state It's sort of continuing with 3:20:25.060 --> 3:20:27.720 its major tactical philosophy, which seems to be doing World 3:20:27.740 --> 3:20:30.879 War II shit in 2026. This time they've gone with 3:20:30.920 --> 3:20:35.360 an imposed amphibious assault. They're trying to stop the Arakan 3:20:35.620 --> 3:20:39.010 army's offensive on Sitwe and the way they've done that 3:20:39.110 --> 3:20:43.410 is like big landing crafts full of conscripts, which has 3:20:43.470 --> 3:20:47.050 resulted in massive casualties, right? There's been a bunch of 3:20:47.090 --> 3:20:49.980 reporting over the last few months on how these big 3:20:50.110 --> 3:20:54.110 hunter offensive work and it seems to be like straight 3:20:54.170 --> 3:20:58.750 up human wave attacks at which the officers, at least 3:20:58.770 --> 3:21:01.610 the higher ranking officers, the officers who would plan such 3:21:01.650 --> 3:21:04.670 an operation are not present. And then any of the 3:21:05.209 --> 3:21:07.250 NCOs or officers who are present, like their role is 3:21:07.330 --> 3:21:11.610 not to think tactically and adapt. It's to enforce discipline 3:21:11.650 --> 3:21:15.410 and continue enforcing the plan, even as everybody's dying. So yeah, 3:21:15.570 --> 3:21:18.970 it's a pretty brutal scene for conscripts in Myanmar right now. 3:21:20.160 --> 3:21:23.810 Early voting has begun in Texas, and this past week, 3:21:23.890 --> 3:21:27.470 in the lead-up to the election, pamphlets have been mailed 3:21:27.590 --> 3:21:31.790 to households across Texas from a group identified as the, quote, 3:21:32.270 --> 3:21:37.690 Texas Transgender Student Union. These pamphlets were addressed to students 3:21:37.840 --> 3:21:42.280 in the household and contained resources for LGBTQ youth and 3:21:42.420 --> 3:21:47.170 a guide on how trans teens can emancipate themselves. These 3:21:47.209 --> 3:21:51.750 mailers have sparked outrage among conservatives, and that appears to 3:21:51.850 --> 3:21:56.960 have been the point. This, quote, Texas Transgender Student Union 3:21:57.700 --> 3:22:03.080 doesn't actually exist, or at least didn't exist until last month, 3:22:03.680 --> 3:22:06.660 when a group by that name registered as an LLC 3:22:06.840 --> 3:22:09.619 in Wyoming, according to Business Records. 3:22:10.180 --> 3:22:10.320 Wait! 3:22:11.150 --> 3:22:14.010 That's an LLC in Wyoming. Okay. Hell yeah. Great stuff 3:22:14.030 --> 3:22:14.470 happening here. 3:22:14.629 --> 3:22:19.080 This is not a real student advocacy group in Texas. 3:22:19.160 --> 3:22:23.220 This is an op. This pamphlet does include some resources 3:22:23.420 --> 3:22:27.640 from TENT. That's Transgender Education Network of Texas, which is 3:22:27.680 --> 3:22:30.840 a real advocacy group. But they were not involved in 3:22:30.879 --> 3:22:34.510 the making of this mailer, nor do they have emancipation resources. 3:22:35.150 --> 3:22:38.810 TENT has since faced a huge wave of harassment and threats. 3:22:39.430 --> 3:22:43.169 following the mailing out of this pamphlet. The Texas Tribune 3:22:43.430 --> 3:22:46.510 traced the mailer ID of two pamphlets to a mail 3:22:46.550 --> 3:22:51.790 tracking company called Snailworks, who the National Republican Congressional Committee 3:22:52.250 --> 3:22:55.390 has paid almost $ 60, 000 over the past two years for 3:22:55.450 --> 3:22:59.590 mailing services, according to a federal election commission search of 3:22:59.650 --> 3:23:04.830 campaign finance records. Stephen Manicelli is currently kind of running 3:23:04.870 --> 3:23:07.830 this lead down and trying to figure out exactly where 3:23:07.870 --> 3:23:10.510 this mailer has like come from. He's been like live 3:23:10.560 --> 3:23:14.080 tweeting his investigation. We don't know tons yet, but if 3:23:14.100 --> 3:23:17.300 you want an update on it, check out our correspondent, 3:23:17.320 --> 3:23:20.480 Steven Monticelli on social media. He'll probably have some more 3:23:20.520 --> 3:23:23.360 info about where exactly this letter came from and who 3:23:23.379 --> 3:23:27.440 might be behind it. Texas Smith County Republican precinct chair, 3:23:27.600 --> 3:23:30.310 Sarah Fields posted a picture of one of these mailers 3:23:30.430 --> 3:23:33.670 that she received and wrote, people are getting pissed. Let 3:23:33.690 --> 3:23:36.090 this be a reminder to take your anger to the 3:23:36.170 --> 3:23:41.180 voting booth. though a later follow-up post noted the suspicious 3:23:41.320 --> 3:23:45.140 origin of these pamphlets. Quote, I just checked my messages. 3:23:45.440 --> 3:23:49.000 No less than 100 parents had messaged me. Enraged over 3:23:49.020 --> 3:23:52.130 the mailers. Is this an op? If it is, it's 3:23:52.270 --> 3:23:56.030 not okay. It even gives tips on how to get emancipated. 3:23:56.290 --> 3:23:56.850 Unquote. 3:23:57.650 --> 3:24:00.029 So it appears that this mailer was sent out specifically 3:24:00.110 --> 3:24:04.269 just to make people mad. Some Texans upset enough to 3:24:04.350 --> 3:24:08.160 go to the polls. trying to mobilize anti-trans sentiment to 3:24:08.200 --> 3:24:10.279 get them to vote for the Republicans. 3:24:11.320 --> 3:24:14.240 Yeah, it's an extension of a theme, I guess. 3:24:14.940 --> 3:24:20.199 In some other, I guess, transgender-related news, earlier this month, 3:24:20.240 --> 3:24:22.660 the New York City Health Department announced a plan to 3:24:22.740 --> 3:24:26.340 spend $ 9 million to provide gender-affirming care to minors after 3:24:26.360 --> 3:24:29.190 two hospitals in the city, NYU Langone and Mount Sinai, 3:24:29.270 --> 3:24:32.250 caved to pressure from the Trump administration and cut services 3:24:32.290 --> 3:24:35.080 to trans youth. This funding is set to go into 3:24:35.140 --> 3:24:39.170 effect early next year, likely partnering with Callen-Lorde, which is 3:24:39.230 --> 3:24:43.610 a local LGBTQ hospital system in the city. And as 3:24:43.690 --> 3:24:47.270 of the day of recording this, Wednesday, October 21st, the 3:24:47.310 --> 3:24:50.550 Supreme Court, at least temporarily, blocked the Trump administration from 3:24:50.629 --> 3:24:55.120 denying gender-affirming care to trans prisoners. This was just a 3:24:55.260 --> 3:25:00.160 two-sentence unsigned order, which leaves in place a previous court 3:25:00.240 --> 3:25:04.040 order from a U.S. district judge in D.C., which originally 3:25:04.080 --> 3:25:06.940 blocked the Bureau of Prisons' new policy going into effect, 3:25:07.500 --> 3:25:12.609 which would have taken away trans prisoners' gender-affirming care, including 3:25:12.709 --> 3:25:17.209 their health care. The second sentence of this two-sentence order 3:25:17.270 --> 3:25:20.270 from the Supreme Court reads, quote, Meaning that these two 3:25:20.310 --> 3:25:23.109 justices would have let the new anti-trans policy from the 3:25:23.170 --> 3:25:33.080 Bureau of Prisons go into effect. So the fact that 3:25:33.160 --> 3:25:35.780 those two are singled out is interesting. You could interpret 3:25:35.800 --> 3:25:40.110 this possibly as like a 7-2 ruling, but there's really 3:25:40.170 --> 3:25:43.510 no legal justification given. It's just two sentences. It's the 3:25:43.570 --> 3:25:47.250 shortest shadow docket ruling I've seen. We'll see what happens 3:25:47.510 --> 3:25:49.950 going forward. Yeah, glad we got a good one. 3:25:49.980 --> 3:25:53.760 Yeah, we got another small thing that literally broke while 3:25:53.800 --> 3:25:54.540 we were doing this. 3:25:55.180 --> 3:25:55.420 Great. 3:25:56.170 --> 3:26:00.780 So San Diego City Council Committee voted on Wednesday to 3:26:00.879 --> 3:26:07.550 rescind the ALPR use policy. That doesn't take ALPRs like completely... 3:26:07.500 --> 3:26:09.700 out in San Diego, it means that any future contract 3:26:10.060 --> 3:26:12.180 would have to go through the whole process again, right? 3:26:12.200 --> 3:26:13.700 Including this like a privacy review board. 3:26:14.020 --> 3:26:16.390 That is automated license plate readers. 3:26:16.550 --> 3:26:19.289 Readers, yeah, flock cameras in the colloquial, but in this 3:26:19.350 --> 3:26:22.129 case and other analogs, right? A lot of places said, 3:26:22.170 --> 3:26:23.950 oh yeah, we're counseling flock and then gone to Axon 3:26:23.990 --> 3:26:25.410 or another provider. Switch to Axon. 3:26:25.570 --> 3:26:26.370 Yeah, that's the move. 3:26:26.530 --> 3:26:31.730 Yeah. Bravely, Mayor Todd Gloria has immediately stepped in to 3:26:31.770 --> 3:26:35.820 put himself between the flock cameras and the people of 3:26:35.879 --> 3:26:37.990 San Diego. Like the hero he is. 3:26:38.110 --> 3:26:41.220 Todd Gloria has cloned himself and has personally standing in 3:26:41.340 --> 3:26:43.760 front of every license plate reader. 3:26:44.400 --> 3:26:48.770 Most useful thing he's ever done. And Todd Gloria is watching. Wait, 3:26:49.010 --> 3:26:51.449 would that work? Are clones people? Could we just do 3:26:51.490 --> 3:26:53.930 that with the flock cameras? They're just twins. I don't know, 3:26:53.950 --> 3:26:56.570 somebody get to work on that. A flock of Todds. 3:26:56.650 --> 3:26:59.090 Instead of a digital twin, everybody just has a clone 3:26:59.110 --> 3:27:02.590 twin that stands in front of the flock cameras. 3:27:02.950 --> 3:27:06.680 Just constantly flipping them off. Yeah, Todd said, automated license 3:27:06.700 --> 3:27:09.199 plate readers are helping San Diego police solve serious crimes, 3:27:09.260 --> 3:27:12.280 cover stolen vehicles and property and locate missing people. Taking 3:27:12.320 --> 3:27:13.900 this proven tool away from our officers will be a 3:27:13.920 --> 3:27:16.560 serious mistake and a step backwards for public safety. Shut 3:27:16.580 --> 3:27:20.160 the fuck up, told Gloria. A number of people in 3:27:20.200 --> 3:27:23.820 San Diego have been wrongly arrested and detained because of 3:27:23.860 --> 3:27:28.000 flock cameras, right? People will remember that San Diego police 3:27:28.300 --> 3:27:32.619 had the vehicle description and number plate for the people 3:27:32.660 --> 3:27:35.780 who shot up the Islamic Center of San Diego, the mosque, right? 3:27:36.020 --> 3:27:40.180 For hours. And they did fuck all. Not one of 3:27:40.240 --> 3:27:43.420 the cops engaged those people, right? The only person who 3:27:43.459 --> 3:27:45.980 stepped up, who kept that community safe were people who 3:27:46.020 --> 3:27:49.840 were already at that mosque, two of whom died in 3:27:49.860 --> 3:27:52.820 the act of stopping the shooter, killing more people. Surveillance 3:27:52.879 --> 3:27:55.040 is not safety. That is not the same thing. And 3:27:55.080 --> 3:27:57.970 it is particularly pathetic for our mayor, right? Who was 3:27:58.550 --> 3:28:01.690 shouted down at a press conference that night at the 3:28:01.790 --> 3:28:05.030 ICSD to attempt to lie about this when he has 3:28:05.190 --> 3:28:08.700 failed our city so badly. fuck this guy. There is 3:28:08.740 --> 3:28:10.580 very little nice I have to say about Todd Gloria. 3:28:11.420 --> 3:28:15.510 Let's move on, I guess, to other contract shit. ICE 3:28:15.590 --> 3:28:18.990 has issued a no-bid extension to the contract that I'm 3:28:19.050 --> 3:28:22.870 pretty sure it's Aumentum Services has to keep running East Montana. 3:28:22.890 --> 3:28:25.230 I know what the company is called. I'm guessing that's 3:28:25.250 --> 3:28:27.210 how they pronounce it. It could be Aumentum, but I 3:28:27.650 --> 3:28:30.820 don't really care. In the justification, they say, quote, Aumentum 3:28:30.900 --> 3:28:34.640 owns and controls key facility infrastructure and operational assets at 3:28:34.700 --> 3:28:39.110 Camp East Montana. These assets include temporary housing units, security systems, generators, 3:28:39.170 --> 3:28:42.490 food service equipment, and other infrastructure necessary to operate this facility. 3:28:43.110 --> 3:28:47.770 Because of this ownership and operational control, Amentum uniquely possesses 3:28:47.850 --> 3:28:51.100 the ability to continue services without a break in performance. 3:28:51.220 --> 3:28:54.160 No other vendor can assume responsibility for the facility and 3:28:54.200 --> 3:28:58.480 provide the required services without substantial transition time, duplicity cost, 3:28:58.620 --> 3:29:03.679 operational disruption, and unacceptable risk to detainee welfare and mission continuity. 3:29:04.420 --> 3:29:06.310 They then go on to mention the Office of the 3:29:06.330 --> 3:29:09.870 Inspector General report on the horrific conditions there, including three 3:29:09.910 --> 3:29:12.609 deaths and the destruction of evidence in one of those cases. 3:29:13.430 --> 3:29:16.170 They say, quote, recent oversight by the ICE Office of 3:29:16.240 --> 3:29:20.500 Detention Oversight yielded a preliminary report identifying more findings, the 3:29:20.560 --> 3:29:23.660 circumstances created and contributed to a need for immediate contractual 3:29:23.760 --> 3:29:27.359 action to protect any detainees and staff and ensure performance 3:29:27.400 --> 3:29:31.709 under ICE standards. So they are renewing and extending this 3:29:31.770 --> 3:29:37.030 contract for this agency, which is remarkably bad among ICE contractors, 3:29:37.400 --> 3:29:43.000 among immigration detention. This contract is vast. It has a 3:29:43.040 --> 3:29:45.779 base period of seven months, followed by a 12-month option, 3:29:45.860 --> 3:29:49.430 and then two six-month options. The payout for these, and 3:29:49.450 --> 3:29:52.129 then there's quite a lot of redactions in this, a 3:29:52.150 --> 3:29:55.500 redacted item on the budget, combined with all these extensions, 3:29:55.570 --> 3:30:00.410 would together be $ 2. 8 billion. Jesus. Yeah, this is for 3:30:00.450 --> 3:30:04.830 a tent camp, right, on a military base. So, like, 3:30:04.870 --> 3:30:09.640 these people are not having to build buildings. They have 3:30:09.660 --> 3:30:11.300 to maintain their tent camp, right? But they also don't 3:30:11.800 --> 3:30:14.300 own the land. Like, they're doing this as a contractor 3:30:14.480 --> 3:30:16.480 on a military base. That's crazy. 3:30:16.500 --> 3:30:19.080 I mean, you're left to wonder how much of this 3:30:19.120 --> 3:30:23.000 whole thing is, like, state subsidies for, like, allies for 3:30:23.020 --> 3:30:24.540 the republican party or like. 3:30:24.379 --> 3:30:27.539 It's it's just it seems i mean that's a lot 3:30:27.580 --> 3:30:28.039 of stuff. 3:30:27.879 --> 3:30:30.810 Yeah beyond the morality of like what's going on it 3:30:30.830 --> 3:30:33.510 seems like a wildly inefficient use of funds. 3:30:33.290 --> 3:30:35.610 Yeah well what's particularly remarkable i don't think amentum had 3:30:35.709 --> 3:30:37.470 ever we've reported on this before but i'm pretty sure 3:30:37.490 --> 3:30:39.550 at the time we reported that they they this isn't 3:30:39.570 --> 3:30:42.170 what they do or they hadn't done this before this 3:30:42.209 --> 3:30:44.090 is going to be the biggest contract by orders of 3:30:44.140 --> 3:30:48.379 magnitude they've ever had also the monthly rate escalates from 3:30:48.379 --> 3:30:50.600 68 million a month to 97 million a month. 3:30:52.640 --> 3:30:53.920 Whoa. 3:30:53.940 --> 3:30:55.800 I mean, maybe Trump's just going to go after it 3:30:55.820 --> 3:30:59.080 a bit more with inflation. Maybe he's going to invade 3:30:59.120 --> 3:31:01.960 some more places and make oil and everything's going to 3:31:01.980 --> 3:31:04.480 get more expensive. Maybe that's what they're predicting. But it 3:31:04.520 --> 3:31:09.590 could also be that they plan to scale up this facility, right? Yeah. Yeah, 3:31:09.690 --> 3:31:14.550 it is remarkable. This one hasn't had as much reporting, 3:31:14.590 --> 3:31:16.110 I don't think, as some of the geo group and 3:31:16.150 --> 3:31:18.790 core civic facilities because it's harder to rent, because it's 3:31:18.990 --> 3:31:22.370 harder for people to protest outside. Often we find out 3:31:22.410 --> 3:31:25.410 about things by like either migrants shouting them out over 3:31:25.430 --> 3:31:28.830 the walls or like writing notes and tossing them out. 3:31:29.400 --> 3:31:31.779 So we haven't heard as much about this, but like 3:31:31.860 --> 3:31:34.859 the conditions we have heard in that report were horrific. 3:31:35.360 --> 3:31:38.619 And nonetheless, these guys are about to net massive bounty. 3:31:39.600 --> 3:31:43.360 Talking of bounties, is it time for us to make 3:31:43.400 --> 3:31:44.879 some money with an advertising break? 3:31:45.440 --> 3:31:46.140 I'm afraid of this. 3:31:46.500 --> 3:31:46.800 Yes. 3:31:47.580 --> 3:31:47.780 Nice. 3:32:00.100 --> 3:32:04.379 And we're back. So first, kind of a quick story. 3:32:04.400 --> 3:32:06.390 This is actually a huge story. It might wind up 3:32:06.420 --> 3:32:09.070 being one of the biggest ones we've covered in the 3:32:09.110 --> 3:32:11.010 last few months. But at the moment, there's just not 3:32:11.050 --> 3:32:13.470 a ton out in terms of like knowing what the 3:32:13.510 --> 3:32:16.310 consequences are going to be. But there was a massive 3:32:16.510 --> 3:32:21.250 vulnerability revealed in PHP this week. PHP, which stands for 3:32:21.270 --> 3:32:24.300 personal homepage, is a scripting language used to develop websites, 3:32:24.800 --> 3:32:26.880 like most of the websites in one way or another. 3:32:26.900 --> 3:32:29.240 I think like 70% of the internet these days relies 3:32:29.300 --> 3:32:32.340 on PHP in some way, you know, aspects of the 3:32:32.379 --> 3:32:36.039 website or whatever, like I still use it. WordPress uses 3:32:36.060 --> 3:32:38.970 it heavily. So do platforms like Drupal and Magneto. It 3:32:38.990 --> 3:32:41.189 wouldn't be too far off to view PHP as a 3:32:41.250 --> 3:32:44.800 foundation level of the modern internet. Late Tuesday, a massive 3:32:44.820 --> 3:32:48.630 vulnerability was discovered in PHP by AI Systems. Two vulnerabilities 3:32:48.709 --> 3:32:51.289 actually were found, and without getting technical, these could provide 3:32:51.350 --> 3:32:53.250 bad actors with a way to run whatever code they 3:32:53.270 --> 3:32:56.510 want on an affected server without even logging in. One 3:32:56.550 --> 3:32:58.330 thing a bad actor could do with this is create 3:32:58.350 --> 3:33:00.770 a backdoor or edit the content of a website to 3:33:00.790 --> 3:33:04.830 embed malicious code. This is a tremendously, like, broad-reaching and 3:33:04.900 --> 3:33:08.620 severe vulnerability. Now, when stuff like this gets found, the 3:33:08.700 --> 3:33:11.640 ideal thing to do is to inform the people who 3:33:11.680 --> 3:33:15.820 maintain PHP or whatever, or whatever thing a vulnerability has 3:33:15.840 --> 3:33:18.640 been found in so they can patch it before it 3:33:18.700 --> 3:33:21.680 becomes known to everybody that there's this massive vulnerability. But 3:33:21.700 --> 3:33:24.780 that's not what happened. The vulnerability was leaked hours before 3:33:24.820 --> 3:33:26.820 the patch came out. The patch was set for Wednesday. 3:33:27.379 --> 3:33:30.580 And on Tuesday, like late afternoon, early evening, everyone knew 3:33:30.600 --> 3:33:33.330 that there was a vulnerability. And so every major website 3:33:33.350 --> 3:33:36.330 on the planet scrambled taking themselves down or disabling PHP 3:33:36.370 --> 3:33:39.210 related parts of the website and applying emergency fixes. Like 3:33:39.230 --> 3:33:41.430 the Netherlands, like a bunch of government websites went down. 3:33:41.790 --> 3:33:45.320 4chan was down. A bunch of like very large and 3:33:45.360 --> 3:33:48.400 influential websites were down, including a lot of government sites. 3:33:48.879 --> 3:33:51.480 You've probably noticed this to some extent. I want to 3:33:51.500 --> 3:33:54.520 quote now from an article by Malwarebyte Labs. So it's 3:33:54.540 --> 3:33:56.860 way too early to know what the long-term impacts of 3:33:56.959 --> 3:33:59.730 all these vulnerabilities and of the hacks that are going 3:33:59.750 --> 3:34:01.930 to be carried out as a result of these vulnerabilities 3:34:01.950 --> 3:34:03.610 will be, but this is a big story. You should 3:34:03.629 --> 3:34:05.269 expect to hear a lot more in the near future. 3:34:05.290 --> 3:34:22.310 This is an example of how You know, one of 3:34:22.330 --> 3:34:25.220 the things these AI tools have done is that hacking 3:34:25.240 --> 3:34:28.400 has always involved a lot of automated stuff like running 3:34:28.440 --> 3:34:31.180 scripts and whatnot to search for vulnerabilities. And AI has 3:34:31.250 --> 3:34:35.310 allowed us to supercharge the speed at which vulnerabilities are 3:34:35.370 --> 3:34:39.129 found and exploited. And so shit like this is going 3:34:39.150 --> 3:34:41.720 to become much more common. This is all part of, like, 3:34:41.780 --> 3:34:44.400 the decreasing reliability with which we'll all be able to 3:34:44.520 --> 3:34:47.900 access and utilize the Internet safely. And, yeah, it's just 3:34:47.940 --> 3:34:49.540 kind of worth keeping an eye on this, even though 3:34:49.660 --> 3:34:51.859 it's not clear what the fallout entirely is going to 3:34:51.879 --> 3:34:52.480 be at this point. 3:34:52.600 --> 3:34:53.380 Scary. 3:34:54.040 --> 3:34:56.300 But everybody you know in digital security says this is 3:34:56.360 --> 3:34:57.099 a very big deal. 3:34:57.680 --> 3:35:01.610 Yeah, it's real bad. Heads on a swivel. Family. 3:35:02.310 --> 3:35:05.750 So moving outside of the Internet and over to a 3:35:05.790 --> 3:35:08.210 place that has no Internet, let's talk about Canada. 3:35:08.250 --> 3:35:10.230 Garrison, is that accurate? Does Canada not have the Internet? 3:35:10.700 --> 3:35:11.320 I don't know, man. 3:35:12.200 --> 3:35:14.010 You don't know. Okay, that's good. Good to know. That's 3:35:14.030 --> 3:35:15.699 our Canadian correspondent, Garrison Davis. 3:35:15.720 --> 3:35:16.000 Thanks. 3:35:16.260 --> 3:35:16.380 Yeah. 3:35:19.670 --> 3:35:21.850 Few months. So yeah, yeah. If you can text me, 3:35:21.870 --> 3:35:23.869 we'll know there's internet. Well, actually, that's not the internet. 3:35:24.170 --> 3:35:25.129 That's good. That's good. 3:35:25.270 --> 3:35:27.250 Those of you who pay attention to the most important 3:35:27.290 --> 3:35:29.730 goings on of our neighbors to the north, and I mean, Canadians, 3:35:29.800 --> 3:35:32.500 not Yankees, for our southern listeners, know that the province 3:35:32.540 --> 3:35:34.940 of Alberta just held a referendum on whether or not 3:35:34.980 --> 3:35:38.240 to hold a binding referendum on separating from Canada. And 3:35:38.340 --> 3:35:41.439 the separatists failed, just like in Star Wars. Also, like 3:35:41.500 --> 3:35:43.879 in Star Wars, the roots of the Alberta secession movement 3:35:43.920 --> 3:35:46.320 have a lot to do with complex issues of trade, 3:35:46.400 --> 3:35:51.269 particularly the oil and gas trade. In 1969, only about 5% 3:35:51.270 --> 3:35:55.330 of Albertans expressed interest in discussing separation from Canada during 3:35:55.370 --> 3:35:59.330 a provincial poll. But then came the 1970s and the 3:35:59.330 --> 3:36:01.410 1973 oil crisis, which was sparked by the Yom Kippur 3:36:01.450 --> 3:36:04.350 War and then OPEC getting big mad. OPEC got really 3:36:04.370 --> 3:36:06.150 mad a couple of times in the 70s. And there 3:36:06.170 --> 3:36:08.640 were a bunch of fuel shocks. If you grew up 3:36:08.900 --> 3:36:10.740 in like the time most of the people in this 3:36:10.760 --> 3:36:12.780 podcast did and you went to like an elementary or 3:36:12.820 --> 3:36:14.600 a middle school or any kind of public school that 3:36:14.640 --> 3:36:17.599 had no windows, that's because it was probably built around 3:36:17.640 --> 3:36:19.940 this period. And they were like desperate to find ways 3:36:19.959 --> 3:36:21.720 to reduce heating and cooling costs. 3:36:21.780 --> 3:36:21.860 Yeah. 3:36:23.170 --> 3:36:23.620 Amazing. 3:36:23.780 --> 3:36:26.910 And another impact that those fuel shocks had was that 3:36:27.050 --> 3:36:29.770 it caused a lot of North America to go like, well, 3:36:29.890 --> 3:36:32.080 I guess we have to exploit our own oil reserves 3:36:32.220 --> 3:36:34.320 much more because we cannot rely on the stuff we 3:36:34.360 --> 3:36:37.140 had been relying on. This helped spur massive and rapid 3:36:37.200 --> 3:36:39.619 growth in the North American oil sector, obviously across the 3:36:39.660 --> 3:36:41.860 United States, but in Canada as well. This was a 3:36:42.000 --> 3:36:44.980 big deal in Canada because Alberta happens to be one 3:36:45.000 --> 3:36:48.000 of the most oil-rich places on planet Earth. The province 3:36:48.060 --> 3:36:50.959 alone has the fourth highest proven reserves of oil on 3:36:51.020 --> 3:36:54.379 planet Earth, according to a 2025 report by a consulting firm, 3:36:54.400 --> 3:36:57.700 McDaniel & Associates. And we actually didn't– like this is 3:36:57.760 --> 3:36:59.880 actually a change in terms of what we knew about 3:36:59.940 --> 3:37:02.900 Alberta's oil reserves. They keep going up as we like 3:37:03.070 --> 3:37:06.120 figure out how to get better at– it's a mix of– 3:37:06.420 --> 3:37:09.600 hydraulic fracking and better science and whatnot, but they're getting 3:37:09.640 --> 3:37:12.660 better at finding out and exploiting how much oil there 3:37:12.720 --> 3:37:15.840 is in Alberta. About 2 million more barrels of oil 3:37:15.879 --> 3:37:18.199 were recently discovered in Alberta thanks to a mix of 3:37:18.220 --> 3:37:21.199 hydraulic fracturing and new technology for drilling wells. Per a 3:37:21.220 --> 3:37:24.119 write-up by the Bow Report, oil sands production has grown 3:37:24.160 --> 3:37:27.400 substantially in the past decade, up 70% from 2 million 3:37:27.420 --> 3:37:30.039 to 3.4 million barrels per day. The growth of several 3:37:30.080 --> 3:37:33.000 projects has increased confidence in the commercial viability of developing 3:37:33.050 --> 3:37:36.840 additional lands. Now, this is significant for a couple of reasons, 3:37:36.959 --> 3:37:38.780 but one thing that has grown over the past few 3:37:38.820 --> 3:37:43.800 decades alongside Alberta's proven oil reserves is secessionist or separatist sentiment. 3:37:44.240 --> 3:37:47.300 There are different opinions among those people about what should 3:37:47.360 --> 3:37:50.340 be done when and if Alberta separates, but a decent 3:37:50.360 --> 3:37:52.740 chunk of them do support joining the United States. 3:37:53.200 --> 3:37:53.870 And I don't think it. 3:37:53.840 --> 3:37:56.290 Takes a lot of imagining to wonder why some people 3:37:56.350 --> 3:37:58.590 in the charge of the United States government right now 3:37:58.970 --> 3:38:02.710 might support that. To continue with that Beau Report analysis, 3:38:03.090 --> 3:38:05.850 since the shale revolution in 2008, there's been a massive 3:38:05.890 --> 3:38:07.879 growth from North America, and the rest of the world 3:38:08.000 --> 3:38:11.010 hasn't grown oil production. we're now seeing that the tight 3:38:11.050 --> 3:38:13.330 plays in the U.S. aren't infinite and are showing signs 3:38:13.370 --> 3:38:16.429 of plateauing. Specifically, when we look at the United States' 3:38:16.490 --> 3:38:19.119 largest oil play, the Permian, it has essentially been flat 3:38:19.180 --> 3:38:23.260 at 5.5 million barrels per day since December of 2023. 3:38:23.260 --> 3:38:26.539 Flat production from the Permian is contrary to the previous decade, 3:38:26.580 --> 3:38:28.840 where we saw tight oil production grow by half a 3:38:28.900 --> 3:38:31.980 million barrels per day per year. Oil demand has gone 3:38:32.020 --> 3:38:33.940 up by about a million barrels a day per year 3:38:33.990 --> 3:38:35.710 for the last several decades, and at this point we 3:38:35.730 --> 3:38:37.650 do expect that to continue, at least in the very 3:38:37.709 --> 3:38:40.860 near term. Given the growing demand for oil and stagnation 3:38:40.900 --> 3:38:43.640 in supply growth since the shale revolution, it's expected that 3:38:43.680 --> 3:38:47.140 Alberta's oil sands reserves will become increasingly critical. As global 3:38:47.240 --> 3:38:49.760 oil demand continues to rise and with limited growth and 3:38:49.800 --> 3:38:52.620 production from other sources, oil sands reserves will be relied 3:38:52.670 --> 3:38:56.230 upon more heavily. So Alberta is one of the places 3:38:56.270 --> 3:38:59.130 in North America that we keep finding more oil. And 3:38:59.390 --> 3:39:02.450 as we start to plateau in the United States, people 3:39:02.530 --> 3:39:05.460 in the U.S. government, particularly the Trump administration, are looking 3:39:05.480 --> 3:39:08.880 at Alberta as a potential crucial resource for the future. 3:39:09.820 --> 3:39:12.420 So while there's a lot of wackiness around the Alberta 3:39:12.440 --> 3:39:15.040 secession movement, as there is with any secession movement in 3:39:15.060 --> 3:39:18.820 the U.S. or in Canada, there's also major geopolitical implications 3:39:18.860 --> 3:39:22.099 behind the mere discussion of Albertan independence. And the prize 3:39:22.160 --> 3:39:24.640 of Albertan oil was considered well worth some scheming by 3:39:24.680 --> 3:39:28.350 people in the Trump administration. The movement had gotten supercharged 3:39:28.420 --> 3:39:31.580 first during a conflict in the early 1980s between then 3:39:31.660 --> 3:39:35.240 Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau and the Albertan Premier Peter Lougheed, 3:39:35.340 --> 3:39:38.840 who disagreed about how fair Canada's revenue-sharing energy policy was. 3:39:39.340 --> 3:39:42.560 Trudeau argued that the federal government needed to control Canada's 3:39:42.600 --> 3:39:45.360 natural resources and sought to impose further taxes on oil 3:39:45.400 --> 3:39:48.679 and gas revenues. Lougheed threatened to cut production in response 3:39:48.720 --> 3:39:52.940 to new taxes. 49% of respondents in a 1981 poll 3:39:52.959 --> 3:39:55.980 by the Canada West Foundation agreed that Western Canadians benefited 3:39:56.120 --> 3:39:59.000 so little from membership in the Canadian state that independence 3:39:59.060 --> 3:40:01.670 made sense. And in the decades since, the issue has 3:40:01.700 --> 3:40:05.430 remained bubbling in the background, like crude. It was ignited 3:40:05.470 --> 3:40:08.430 in the modern era in 2015, when Pierre Trudeau's son 3:40:08.530 --> 3:40:11.290 Justin became the Prime Minister. And to make a long 3:40:11.310 --> 3:40:13.490 story short, over the last several years, things have really 3:40:13.550 --> 3:40:16.600 come to a head. separatist parties who had attracted like 3:40:16.700 --> 3:40:19.380 one or 2% of the vote previously were supercharged by 3:40:19.459 --> 3:40:23.140 COVID-19 restrictions. And then the fact that Trump's been launching 3:40:23.180 --> 3:40:25.600 a trade war and talking about making Canada the 51st state, 3:40:25.980 --> 3:40:27.940 that's also helped kind of clamp down on some of 3:40:27.959 --> 3:40:29.699 the separatist sentiment. It's a big part of what Prime 3:40:29.730 --> 3:40:32.970 Minister Carney has used to sort of like argue that 3:40:33.070 --> 3:40:35.670 Canadians need to stand together in this time. And he's 3:40:35.730 --> 3:40:39.170 right that the separatist movement is being like deliberately pushed 3:40:39.629 --> 3:40:42.250 by a whole bunch of people in the United States. Now, obviously, 3:40:42.270 --> 3:40:45.320 the most direct reason why this referendum came about is 3:40:45.379 --> 3:40:48.880 because in May, Albertan Premier Danielle Smith announced that the 3:40:49.000 --> 3:40:51.900 independence question would come to a vote. She supported a 3:40:52.000 --> 3:40:55.080 unified Canada, but was willing to have a referendum vote 3:40:55.120 --> 3:40:58.360 because over 300,000 Albertans had signed a petition asking for 3:40:58.390 --> 3:41:01.450 a referendum. The petition's signatures had been gathered after a 3:41:01.490 --> 3:41:05.210 mass town hall campaign by pro-separation citizens. It was blocked 3:41:05.250 --> 3:41:07.930 by a court for reasons to do with Indigenous rights initially, 3:41:07.970 --> 3:41:10.709 but was allowed to go through. Voters in this referendum 3:41:10.730 --> 3:41:12.810 had a number of choices to make, not just as 3:41:12.830 --> 3:41:15.410 to whether or not to do a binding referendum, although 3:41:15.450 --> 3:41:17.080 first they did have to choose, do we remain with 3:41:17.110 --> 3:41:19.200 Canada or do we start the process of holding a 3:41:19.340 --> 3:41:23.290 binding separation referendum? But, per the BBC, quote, There are 3:41:23.330 --> 3:41:25.269 nine other questions that have been put to voters, though 3:41:25.290 --> 3:41:27.470 they have been overshadowed by the one on independence. They 3:41:27.510 --> 3:41:30.690 deal with two main topics, immigration and constitutional matters. For 3:41:30.709 --> 3:41:32.610 the most part, all of them seek to ask Albertans 3:41:32.650 --> 3:41:36.420 about options to gain autonomy from Ottawa. Voters were also asked, 3:41:36.440 --> 3:41:38.760 for example, if they wanted more control on immigration and 3:41:38.800 --> 3:41:41.379 whether people should have to provide proof of citizenship to vote. 3:41:42.290 --> 3:41:42.530 U.S. 3:41:42.570 --> 3:41:45.490 Interests repeatedly attempted to influence the election in a number 3:41:45.530 --> 3:41:48.570 of ways. A write-up in Maclean's documents how U.S. Treasury 3:41:48.610 --> 3:41:51.750 Secretary Scott Besant held an interview with Jack Posobiec where 3:41:51.770 --> 3:41:53.650 he said, I think we should let them come down 3:41:53.690 --> 3:41:56.290 into the U.S. Alberta is a natural partner for the U.S. 3:41:56.490 --> 3:41:58.410 Rumor that they may have a referendum on whether they 3:41:58.450 --> 3:41:59.410 want to stay in the U.S. 3:41:59.490 --> 3:41:59.830 Or not. 3:42:00.540 --> 3:42:03.259 This was taken very seriously by Canadians as a statement 3:42:03.280 --> 3:42:06.260 of U.S. support for intervention in Canadian politics. Consistent with 3:42:06.280 --> 3:42:10.480 the 2025 national security strategy our regime released, which revealed 3:42:10.560 --> 3:42:13.260 what's known as the Trump corollary to the Monroe Doctrine. 3:42:13.360 --> 3:42:14.320 The Donro Doctrine? 3:42:14.680 --> 3:42:14.900 Yeah. 3:42:15.240 --> 3:42:17.760 This, per the White House, put Canada in the U.S. 3:42:17.800 --> 3:42:22.280 sphere of influence. As McLean's wrote, quote, The document was 3:42:22.320 --> 3:42:24.600 read with dread in Ottawa. The strategy has, of course, 3:42:24.740 --> 3:42:27.140 played out in rhetoric and policy. The administration wants a 3:42:27.200 --> 3:42:30.459 say on Canada's trade agreements. It wants specialized access to resources, 3:42:30.560 --> 3:42:33.000 and it has zero regard for notions of sovereignty, except, 3:42:33.120 --> 3:42:35.490 it seems, when it comes to Alberta. Now, the most 3:42:35.570 --> 3:42:37.890 direct U.S. influence in this whole process so far has 3:42:37.930 --> 3:42:43.310 been online. Tons of MAGA-affiliated accounts pushed Albertan secession. Benny 3:42:43.370 --> 3:42:48.030 Johnson suggested taking Alberta militarily. Stephen Crowder supported Albertan statehood. 3:42:48.090 --> 3:42:51.760 All sorts of stupid shit. A McGill study found pro-independence 3:42:51.800 --> 3:42:56.060 accounts on social media outperformed anti-independence accounts by an eight 3:42:56.100 --> 3:42:59.920 to one ratio, which is pretty clear evidence of interference 3:42:59.959 --> 3:43:03.880 by social media companies, I would say. Right before the referendum, 3:43:04.000 --> 3:43:07.350 Public Interest Alberta called for an inquiry into foreign interference 3:43:07.450 --> 3:43:10.830 in Alberta's secession referendum after it was found that Albertan 3:43:10.910 --> 3:43:14.870 separatist leaders held a meeting with U.S. Republican political strategists 3:43:15.070 --> 3:43:18.600 in the province about how to push the referendum. This 3:43:18.680 --> 3:43:21.480 is all very fucked up and Canadians should be pissed 3:43:21.540 --> 3:43:24.200 at us. The good news is that for now, things 3:43:24.220 --> 3:43:26.890 did not go MAGA's way, did not go the Trump 3:43:26.930 --> 3:43:31.070 administration's way. Albertans voted overwhelmingly to stay part of Canada. 3:43:31.170 --> 3:43:33.570 Nearly 2 million people cast their ballots and so far 3:43:33.590 --> 3:43:34.990 about 75% of them. 3:43:34.910 --> 3:43:36.800 Look to have supported remaining Canadian. 3:43:37.500 --> 3:43:39.440 I think we'll be continuing to cover aspects of this 3:43:39.480 --> 3:43:41.040 in the future, but that's what you need to know 3:43:41.080 --> 3:43:41.380 right now. 3:43:42.040 --> 3:43:43.960 Nice. Anything to add, Gare? 3:43:44.879 --> 3:43:48.060 Yeah, I'm glad that Alberta voted to not have a 3:43:48.120 --> 3:43:49.699 vote on whether to leave Canada. 3:43:49.720 --> 3:43:50.099 Yeah. 3:43:50.760 --> 3:43:55.300 Unfortunately, though, some of the more confusingly worded referendum questions 3:43:55.400 --> 3:44:00.300 on stuff like immigration were not as unanimous. The early 3:44:00.379 --> 3:44:04.400 count on a bunch of those immigration questions leans, yes, 3:44:04.560 --> 3:44:09.760 in favor of pursuing more restrictions, but the margins on 3:44:09.900 --> 3:44:14.160 those are pretty small and votes from cities like Edmonton 3:44:14.200 --> 3:44:18.330 and Calgary are still coming in. and could theoretically switch 3:44:18.370 --> 3:44:21.410 those over, but they'd have to go up a couple percent. 3:44:22.230 --> 3:44:25.250 Some of the other questions on changes to the Constitution 3:44:25.690 --> 3:44:29.470 have already flipped from yes to no, as we've been 3:44:29.490 --> 3:44:33.670 getting in more results from the cities. But these other 3:44:33.690 --> 3:44:37.270 questions are pretty close. We don't have full results quite yet. 3:44:37.970 --> 3:44:42.110 So although U.S. interference did not produce the result on 3:44:42.190 --> 3:44:46.720 separation that MAGA may have wanted, the type of immigration 3:44:46.930 --> 3:44:51.000 rhetoric that spreads on social media is not, you know, 3:44:51.160 --> 3:44:53.379 unique to the United States or really any kind of 3:44:53.440 --> 3:44:57.940 quote unquote Western country right now. There's pretty ugly stuff everywhere. 3:44:57.959 --> 3:45:01.540 But yeah, in terms of the separation referendum, that all 3:45:02.240 --> 3:45:04.200 lines up with what I've been reading in the old 3:45:04.260 --> 3:45:09.190 CBC and what I've been talking with my family about. Because, yeah, 3:45:09.430 --> 3:45:10.090 they've been voting. 3:45:11.070 --> 3:45:11.530 They're voting. 3:45:11.550 --> 3:45:13.010 I don't know, Canada, I'm going to give you the 3:45:13.070 --> 3:45:16.790 same advice I give every country these days. Invest in 3:45:16.870 --> 3:45:18.350 long-range missile defenses. 3:45:19.240 --> 3:45:24.340 Well, I don't know if that's the best use of 3:45:24.560 --> 3:45:25.560 Canadian state money. 3:45:25.580 --> 3:45:31.130 It might be. There are some countries that really do 3:45:31.150 --> 3:45:31.670 like this. 3:45:32.230 --> 3:45:36.070 But no, I mean, Alberta really is the heart of 3:45:36.129 --> 3:45:39.240 the kind of conservative movement in Canada right now. This 3:45:39.300 --> 3:45:42.240 is where, like, you know, like the... The trucker convoy 3:45:42.440 --> 3:45:46.540 was organized, all of those. All those many years ago. 3:45:46.560 --> 3:45:49.460 It is one of three provinces I've heard described as 3:45:49.500 --> 3:45:50.340 Canada's Texas. 3:45:50.700 --> 3:45:54.110 It is. That's the only one that's accurate, right? People 3:45:54.129 --> 3:45:56.670 could say maybe Manitoba or Saskatchewan. 3:45:56.690 --> 3:45:57.189 They're lying. 3:45:57.209 --> 3:45:59.090 Those are obviously Midwest states. 3:45:59.430 --> 3:46:01.650 Nova Scotia's got a little bit of Texas in it, 3:46:01.770 --> 3:46:05.590 but only a little. No, it's definitely Alberta. I mean, 3:46:05.850 --> 3:46:09.690 my family lives surrounded by oil derricks. It's quite incredible. 3:46:09.720 --> 3:46:10.320 Mm-hmm. 3:46:10.950 --> 3:46:16.830 Should we stick to non-US countries and pivot to Mia Wong? 3:46:17.410 --> 3:46:20.379 So speaking of places where people are pissed off at 3:46:20.400 --> 3:46:23.519 the Trump administration, we are moving to our dispatches from 3:46:23.560 --> 3:46:27.640 a world in revolt. And we're moving first to Albania, 3:46:28.520 --> 3:46:35.090 which has seen staggeringly large protests over the last roughly 3:46:35.250 --> 3:46:39.350 a week. It's very difficult to get good numbers on 3:46:39.770 --> 3:46:43.820 how big the Albanian protests are. I will say just 3:46:43.930 --> 3:46:47.220 off the top as a indication of how successful they've been, 3:46:47.240 --> 3:46:49.860 they lit the Supreme Court on fire. They lit part 3:46:49.920 --> 3:46:54.099 of the Albanian Central Bank on fire. So the protests 3:46:54.120 --> 3:46:56.480 that have rocked Albania over the last week are a 3:46:56.580 --> 3:47:03.290 massive escalation of ongoing protests over a basically city-sized seaside 3:47:03.690 --> 3:47:07.350 real estate development tied to Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump, 3:47:08.010 --> 3:47:11.350 whose firm Affinity Partners. Okay, so this is where it 3:47:11.370 --> 3:47:15.789 gets murky because they've been granted special investment status by 3:47:15.810 --> 3:47:21.010 the government. They also talked about this development project. There's 3:47:21.030 --> 3:47:23.050 a video, I think, on Instagram of them talking about 3:47:23.070 --> 3:47:24.670 it and how they discovered this place when they went 3:47:24.690 --> 3:47:29.039 on vacation. It's kind of unclear exactly the extent to 3:47:29.060 --> 3:47:30.200 which they are involved in it. 3:47:30.879 --> 3:47:31.240 I don't know. 3:47:31.320 --> 3:47:33.680 No one seems to exactly know how closely tied they're in. 3:47:33.700 --> 3:47:36.070 I've seen some reports, like the rumor is that they're 3:47:36.090 --> 3:47:39.570 just straight up selling it to Kushner's firm, right? This 3:47:39.670 --> 3:47:42.250 development is going to be built on a wildlife reserve 3:47:42.290 --> 3:47:44.530 that is home to a whole bunch of animals like 3:47:44.590 --> 3:47:48.450 sea turtles and importantly, a bunch of flamingos, which has 3:47:48.510 --> 3:47:50.789 led to this, you know, these protests, the original version 3:47:50.830 --> 3:47:53.790 of these protests being dubbed the Flamingo Revolution. 3:47:53.810 --> 3:47:54.390 Nice. 3:47:54.910 --> 3:47:58.539 But- The protests kicked into a higher gear in the 3:47:58.600 --> 3:48:02.180 last week. As I mentioned before, the protesters have been 3:48:02.220 --> 3:48:05.240 extremely successful in combating security forces. Again, they lit the 3:48:05.260 --> 3:48:08.800 Supreme Court on fire. They have spread rapidly across the country. 3:48:09.360 --> 3:48:14.260 Albania's nominally socialist party president has blamed conservatives and also 3:48:14.320 --> 3:48:20.650 Iran for fomenting the protests. But this rings somewhat hollow, 3:48:20.709 --> 3:48:23.690 given that a very prominent young member of his own party, 3:48:23.730 --> 3:48:26.770 who he had handpicked to run... at like age 25, 3:48:26.770 --> 3:48:29.370 also joined the protest during the original phase of it. 3:48:30.310 --> 3:48:33.710 And the intensification of these protests and their expansion from 3:48:34.470 --> 3:48:37.570 being sort of solely about this real estate development to 3:48:37.629 --> 3:48:39.810 being about the things that all the rest of the 3:48:39.850 --> 3:48:44.510 uprisings are about, which is to say unemployment, terrible education, 3:48:45.430 --> 3:48:49.640 bad economic prospects, are very directly linked to the other 3:48:49.700 --> 3:48:54.890 uprisings in France, Spain, India, and other places. People are 3:48:54.990 --> 3:48:57.930 directly inspired when you read interviews of them in the streets. 3:48:57.970 --> 3:49:00.590 They're directly inspired by what... I don't know if I 3:49:00.640 --> 3:49:03.640 like the name, the Gen Z revolt, but that's kind 3:49:03.660 --> 3:49:05.740 of what it's being called. Yeah, and there is this 3:49:05.920 --> 3:49:12.040 massive generational conflict element of these protests. Yeah, although again, 3:49:12.080 --> 3:49:14.259 it's worth noting that a lot of the people involved 3:49:14.300 --> 3:49:17.020 in this are a lot older than that. I think 3:49:17.860 --> 3:49:21.060 part of what's happening is like... It's like the students 3:49:21.080 --> 3:49:22.620 who are the first people to take the street and 3:49:22.680 --> 3:49:24.560 then everyone else goes with them. 3:49:24.580 --> 3:49:27.120 And that tends to be the case like generally, right? 3:49:27.440 --> 3:49:30.580 Like it's generally young people who are just a bit 3:49:30.620 --> 3:49:34.640 less risk averse and who tend to do those things. 3:49:34.940 --> 3:49:38.520 They have less stake in ways continuing exactly how they are. 3:49:38.540 --> 3:49:39.260 Yeah. 3:49:39.390 --> 3:49:41.070 And more to gain, right? Like they have the rest 3:49:41.100 --> 3:49:42.340 of their lives to deal with this shit. 3:49:42.500 --> 3:49:42.680 Yeah. 3:49:43.070 --> 3:49:43.230 Yep. 3:49:44.050 --> 3:49:46.230 And, you know, I think this is actually very encouraging 3:49:46.270 --> 3:49:50.410 that you're seeing very, very deliberate sort of tying of 3:49:50.450 --> 3:49:52.450 these protests to the protests going on in other countries 3:49:53.370 --> 3:49:56.610 in a way that wasn't really true of like the 2018, 2019, 3:49:56.610 --> 3:49:59.400 2020 wave of protests. And it harkens back to the 3:49:59.440 --> 3:50:02.080 sort of internationalism of 2011, where you would have things 3:50:02.140 --> 3:50:06.040 like protesters who were occupying Tucker Square would be like 3:50:06.180 --> 3:50:10.450 ordering pizzas for striking teachers in Wisconsin. Like that kind of, 3:50:10.550 --> 3:50:14.730 this is closer, not fully there, but closer to that 3:50:14.770 --> 3:50:17.930 kind of era of solidarity between these movements. And a 3:50:17.970 --> 3:50:20.310 lot of that is because the people taking the streets 3:50:20.370 --> 3:50:23.870 are seeing the same economic conditions everywhere and are seeing 3:50:23.950 --> 3:50:30.800 people go fight. And that helps to break the passivity 3:50:30.820 --> 3:50:33.260 of the hour and get people into the streets. Speaking 3:50:33.280 --> 3:50:35.520 of getting people into the streets, we're going to turn 3:50:35.560 --> 3:50:39.600 from Albania to France, where the question in France for 3:50:39.640 --> 3:50:43.810 the last few weeks had been fairly simple. The question was, 3:50:44.050 --> 3:50:46.310 will the rest of French society join the French students 3:50:46.330 --> 3:50:48.690 in the streets, or would they let the student movement. 3:50:48.690 --> 3:50:49.350 Be crushed alone? 3:50:50.330 --> 3:50:54.730 And this weekend, to its credit, French society issued a 3:50:54.750 --> 3:50:57.910 fairly resounding answer. Yes, we are going to go into 3:50:57.930 --> 3:51:01.210 the streets. And the result of that was, over the weekend, 3:51:01.310 --> 3:51:05.170 France saw the largest protest the country has seen since 3:51:05.400 --> 3:51:08.839 at minimum the peak of the Gilets Jaunes Yellow Vest uprising. 3:51:09.730 --> 3:51:14.550 possibly larger and it's been defined by a level of 3:51:14.630 --> 3:51:17.830 militancy that even in a nation defined by the riot 3:51:18.470 --> 3:51:21.260 is almost more characteristic of a small revolution than a 3:51:21.300 --> 3:51:22.480 large protest. 3:51:22.830 --> 3:51:26.060 The gilets jaunes like they've set up a whole website 3:51:26.740 --> 3:51:29.120 to convene people to protest and they have another one 3:51:29.180 --> 3:51:30.900 coming up on the 24th. 3:51:30.980 --> 3:51:33.220 Yeah yeah and that that's part of what's been happening 3:51:33.240 --> 3:51:37.020 here is that you know The student protests survived long 3:51:37.080 --> 3:51:39.140 enough for the dates that the yellow vests had set up. 3:51:39.300 --> 3:51:43.870 And what this has caused is a huge swath of 3:51:43.930 --> 3:51:46.810 both the French left and the French working class out there. 3:51:47.230 --> 3:51:50.510 You're seeing everyone from, like, proles in, like, you know, 3:51:50.570 --> 3:51:53.650 French territories in Réunion and Guadalupe, where, like, in Guadalupe, 3:51:53.670 --> 3:51:56.710 people seem to be, like, shooting at police stations and stuff, to, 3:51:56.810 --> 3:51:58.430 you know, you have the remains of the yellow vests. 3:51:58.980 --> 3:52:01.340 And in something that is genuinely sort of remarkable for 3:52:01.360 --> 3:52:05.270 French society, you're seeing... Both the white and non-white French 3:52:05.310 --> 3:52:07.530 working classes go out at the same time, which is 3:52:07.550 --> 3:52:10.070 something that very, very rarely happens. Usually when one segment 3:52:10.110 --> 3:52:12.150 goes out, the other one doesn't. So if you look 3:52:12.170 --> 3:52:17.250 at the riots in 2023 against police killings, were probably 3:52:17.290 --> 3:52:22.060 the most militant street movement you've seen in France in ages. 3:52:22.960 --> 3:52:25.720 But it was just the non-white workers going out. And 3:52:25.820 --> 3:52:28.580 this time it's been both, partially because the student movement 3:52:29.240 --> 3:52:32.179 was born in a bunch of working class suburbs of Paris, 3:52:32.220 --> 3:52:34.570 but then spread to the rest of Paris and the 3:52:34.610 --> 3:52:36.970 rest of the country, you've been seeing a sort of 3:52:37.010 --> 3:52:40.070 alliance here in a way that you haven't in a 3:52:40.110 --> 3:52:43.700 long time. And the consequence of this is that when 3:52:44.280 --> 3:52:47.600 enough of the French working class goes out together, you 3:52:47.620 --> 3:52:49.260 can start doing the thing that they're doing right now, 3:52:49.300 --> 3:52:52.620 which is burning down city halls. And you can see this, 3:52:52.660 --> 3:52:55.740 when you read accounts from people on the ground, it 3:52:55.760 --> 3:53:00.460 doesn't read like an account of even a pretty militant 3:53:00.500 --> 3:53:03.060 French protest. It reads like something out of 1848. You're 3:53:03.240 --> 3:53:06.380 reading things like, quote, thousands of people are in the 3:53:06.400 --> 3:53:10.600 Elise district setting up barricades. These are the largest mobilizations 3:53:10.620 --> 3:53:14.710 we've seen this decade. It's hard to get good numbers 3:53:14.730 --> 3:53:17.770 of the peak of the Gilets Jaunes. The government is 3:53:17.830 --> 3:53:21.850 estimating 500,000. The unions estimate 800,000, which I think is 3:53:21.870 --> 3:53:25.400 much closer. I've seen estimates up into the millions. This 3:53:25.440 --> 3:53:27.280 was also a massive shock to the government. The government 3:53:27.300 --> 3:53:29.400 had been projecting that about 100,000 people would come out. 3:53:29.440 --> 3:53:31.580 They were projecting the movement was about to die. And 3:53:31.600 --> 3:53:35.470 then suddenly, you know, eight to 10 times as many 3:53:35.510 --> 3:53:37.350 people as the government thought was going to be out 3:53:37.410 --> 3:53:41.070 came out. And this is also surprising to some extent 3:53:41.210 --> 3:53:44.730 in that this uprising differs a lot from the last 3:53:44.790 --> 3:53:47.470 half decade of anti-austerity protests and general strikes, right? There 3:53:47.490 --> 3:53:50.970 have been a lot of general strikes in the last 3:53:51.650 --> 3:53:54.480 half a decade, but The call for this didn't come 3:53:54.580 --> 3:53:58.210 out from the unions. It came out from a whole 3:53:58.270 --> 3:54:00.650 bunch of decentralized networks, including the sort of yellow vest things, 3:54:00.690 --> 3:54:02.470 including the student movement networks. And because of that, it 3:54:02.510 --> 3:54:05.710 was able to put into the streets almost an order 3:54:05.770 --> 3:54:07.690 of magnitude more people than anyone else has been able 3:54:07.730 --> 3:54:11.060 to call out. And it puts the French state in 3:54:11.080 --> 3:54:13.580 a somewhat difficult position because there isn't really a force 3:54:13.620 --> 3:54:15.880 that can just rein the protests in, in a way 3:54:15.920 --> 3:54:17.960 that you had with the French, with the general strikes, 3:54:17.980 --> 3:54:20.480 where you can negotiate with the unions and There's just 3:54:20.520 --> 3:54:22.840 an unbelievable number of extremely angry people in the streets, 3:54:22.920 --> 3:54:26.320 and we're going to see how the protest continues to 3:54:26.380 --> 3:54:29.890 escalate this weekend. I'm going to move to a couple 3:54:30.130 --> 3:54:35.110 of kind of small ones. So in Tunisia, we had 3:54:35.130 --> 3:54:41.020 Tunisia's largest union calling a pretty large anti-government protest, which 3:54:41.060 --> 3:54:45.160 is pretty notable because Tunisia has been under the rule 3:54:45.360 --> 3:54:49.720 of effectively a dictator who came in promising to sort 3:54:49.740 --> 3:54:53.440 of like end the rampant corruption and unemployment of the 3:54:53.460 --> 3:54:57.460 sort of post-revolutionary Indonesia. That hasn't happened. But Said has 3:54:57.480 --> 3:55:00.580 been like incredibly effective at repressing protests and repressing opposition. 3:55:00.970 --> 3:55:03.310 And this is the largest group, like group of people 3:55:03.330 --> 3:55:05.750 anyone's been able to put in the streets in basically 3:55:05.770 --> 3:55:07.490 since he came to power. So we're going to be 3:55:07.510 --> 3:55:10.410 monitoring what's happening there. It's also worth mentioning what's going 3:55:10.470 --> 3:55:15.190 on in Italy, where there have been some small protests 3:55:15.210 --> 3:55:19.050 and In the north, I say small, very effective, but 3:55:19.110 --> 3:55:22.130 small protests in the north that like managed to sack 3:55:22.170 --> 3:55:25.190 a whole bunch of Milan shopping district, which pissed off 3:55:25.210 --> 3:55:27.850 the government enormously. So there's a troop deployment going on 3:55:27.870 --> 3:55:32.210 in Milan. But I think more interestingly are the protests 3:55:32.230 --> 3:55:34.250 happening in the south at the same time where there's 3:55:34.290 --> 3:55:37.350 a set of roadblocks that are being maintained as part 3:55:37.370 --> 3:55:40.030 of a truckers protest over sort of rising diesel. Diesel 3:55:40.050 --> 3:55:44.290 prices are skyrocketing. Just there just isn't diesel to buy. 3:55:45.550 --> 3:55:48.430 which means that a bunch of the trucking sector that 3:55:48.510 --> 3:55:52.200 fuels the export economy of the agricultural parts of southern 3:55:52.280 --> 3:55:56.100 Italy are collapsing because the truckers who are independent contractors 3:55:56.240 --> 3:56:01.000 can't afford diesel. And that's been crushing their industry. And 3:56:01.020 --> 3:56:02.820 so we're starting to see blockades of the roads leading 3:56:02.840 --> 3:56:05.400 up to ports. And that's something that I think can 3:56:05.480 --> 3:56:07.920 escalate because there just has not really been a government 3:56:07.940 --> 3:56:12.040 solution to these problems. Finally, I want to talk about Indonesia, 3:56:12.640 --> 3:56:15.440 where on Tuesday the 19th, or yesterday as we were 3:56:15.460 --> 3:56:20.080 recording this, protests sort of begun in earnest against the 3:56:20.120 --> 3:56:24.790 country's increasingly embattled right-wing president, Prabowo Subianto, who is a 3:56:24.830 --> 3:56:28.110 former general and a former minister of defense and who 3:56:28.170 --> 3:56:32.270 came in on a very sort of like right-wing military 3:56:32.290 --> 3:56:35.930 fascist platform. Subianto has come under fire, and I use 3:56:35.950 --> 3:56:38.130 that term quite literally here, for his failure to even 3:56:38.230 --> 3:56:42.080 vaguely contain a massive series of wildfires in Sumatra and 3:56:42.110 --> 3:56:46.960 Borneo that have been going on since July. So this 3:56:47.000 --> 3:56:49.200 is not a situation where people are mad at the 3:56:49.240 --> 3:56:51.980 government for not being able to control the weather. These 3:56:52.040 --> 3:56:55.740 fires have been going on for four months, and they 3:56:55.780 --> 3:56:58.580 have covered not just Indonesia, but a broad swath of 3:56:58.620 --> 3:57:02.230 the entire region in these clouds of toxic smoke. And 3:57:02.250 --> 3:57:05.470 I mean, these clouds of toxic smoke are reaching Vietnam, right? 3:57:05.510 --> 3:57:07.210 And this has been going on for four months now, 3:57:07.250 --> 3:57:08.770 and the government has not been able to put them out. 3:57:08.870 --> 3:57:12.210 People are extremely pissed. I'm going to quote here from 3:57:12.230 --> 3:57:15.150 Arab News, quote, the Ministry of Health, this is just 3:57:15.190 --> 3:57:18.070 in Indonesia, The Ministry of Health has recorded at least 3:57:18.070 --> 3:57:22.670 277,000 cases of acute respiratory infection related to the fires 3:57:22.710 --> 3:57:27.310 so far, of which 60,000 are children under five. So 3:57:27.530 --> 3:57:30.470 this has pushed people into the streets in the last 3:57:30.650 --> 3:57:33.660 couple of days. Again, this is a set of protests 3:57:33.680 --> 3:57:37.700 that begun with students like hearkening to the student protests 3:57:37.960 --> 3:57:40.630 across the world. The government has said it will deploy 3:57:40.630 --> 3:57:44.690 9000 police officers to crush the protests. It's unclear exactly 3:57:44.750 --> 3:57:47.510 how this is going to go because we're in effectively 3:57:47.560 --> 3:57:50.300 day two of them as we're recording. Yeah, and we 3:57:50.340 --> 3:57:52.540 will keep you informed as that situation unfolds. 3:57:53.360 --> 3:57:55.640 Let's go on one more ad break and then return 3:57:55.740 --> 3:57:57.620 for two more important stories. 3:58:08.770 --> 3:58:12.930 So talking of like a world on fire. Yeah. Let's 3:58:12.990 --> 3:58:17.190 talk about Iran and Ukraine, right? So the UK MTO's report, 3:58:17.270 --> 3:58:20.570 Maritime Trade Office, I believe, indicated that the Maritime Reporting 3:58:20.630 --> 3:58:23.740 Agency has struggled to, I'm just going to quote from it, 3:58:24.050 --> 3:58:28.000 struggling to accurately report true numbers of attacks with majority 3:58:28.020 --> 3:58:31.760 of vessels refusing to report to UK MTO. And then 3:58:31.800 --> 3:58:34.560 in that bullet point, UK MTO is aware via other 3:58:34.600 --> 3:58:38.540 sources of incidents but constrained on reporting through lack of verification. 3:58:39.250 --> 3:58:42.350 Despite this, they recorded more than a dozen attacks last week. 3:58:43.070 --> 3:58:46.550 And they recorded that transit to the strait was 70% lower, 3:58:46.570 --> 3:58:50.310 straight from Hormuz, obviously, than pre-conflict levels. While a lot 3:58:50.330 --> 3:58:53.930 of oil is moving through that east-west Saudi pipeline that 3:58:53.990 --> 3:58:57.510 bypasses straight from Hormuz, it seems the move in Hormuz 3:58:57.560 --> 3:58:59.980 right now is to use smaller craft to offload to 3:59:00.030 --> 3:59:04.400 larger vessels. This, of course, is all happening at the 3:59:04.460 --> 3:59:09.570 same time that Ukraine has continued to use Long-range drone 3:59:09.610 --> 3:59:13.950 attacks to batter Russian fuel infrastructure launched a bunch of 3:59:14.010 --> 3:59:18.060 larger scale operations over the weekend. And it appears that 3:59:18.120 --> 3:59:21.420 the world's most divorced man is not happy about this. 3:59:21.800 --> 3:59:24.890 That's Elon Musk, if you're not familiar. Elon Musk has 3:59:24.950 --> 3:59:29.110 been gating the speed at which Ukraine can remain connected 3:59:29.130 --> 3:59:32.150 to the internet through his Starshield system. He started doing 3:59:32.190 --> 3:59:36.530 this about the 14th of October, which was last Wednesday 3:59:36.570 --> 3:59:40.030 for you listening on Friday. This has serious impacts for 3:59:40.090 --> 3:59:44.220 Ukrainian drone offensives. According to posts by Ukrainian officials on Telegram, 3:59:44.240 --> 3:59:48.020 they weren't warned about this. They already can't use the 3:59:48.100 --> 3:59:52.960 Starshield itself in Russian territory and But for other operations, 3:59:53.100 --> 3:59:56.480 it seems that they've been limited to connecting at speeds 3:59:56.580 --> 4:00:00.780 below 100 miles an hour, 160 kph. This 100 mile 4:00:00.860 --> 4:00:02.670 an hour limit seems to be something that they've now 4:00:02.700 --> 4:00:04.970 arrived at. But when this was first happening, people were 4:00:04.990 --> 4:00:08.770 experiencing connectivity issues even slower than that. So it's not 4:00:08.810 --> 4:00:12.870 uncommon for drones to be equipped with a terminal, like 4:00:13.110 --> 4:00:16.790 a Star Shield or Starlink terminal, to either function as 4:00:16.830 --> 4:00:19.820 a relay or in some cases, like the actual drone 4:00:19.850 --> 4:00:22.720 that engages the russians will have a terminal on it 4:00:23.360 --> 4:00:26.160 they also use them on interceptor drones i'm not entirely 4:00:26.240 --> 4:00:28.780 clear how like i i can guess but i'm not 4:00:28.820 --> 4:00:31.340 going to think like guess in public someone knows i'd 4:00:31.360 --> 4:00:34.860 love to hear cool zone tips at proton.me if you're 4:00:34.880 --> 4:00:38.560 not familiar with star shield star shield is a gov 4:00:38.600 --> 4:00:42.040 slash military version of star link sometimes it has access 4:00:42.060 --> 4:00:46.220 to faster speeds certain specific satellites they're not entirely interchangeable 4:00:46.280 --> 4:00:50.220 but Starshield can use that Starlink network kind of plus, 4:00:50.420 --> 4:00:54.250 I guess. Ukraine has a couple of things. It has 4:00:54.330 --> 4:00:59.250 Starshield and then it has a registry of Ukraine Ministry 4:00:59.290 --> 4:01:03.250 of Defense Starlink terminals, which seems to be a separate thing, right? 4:01:03.270 --> 4:01:05.390 But like when it took a long time, but eventually 4:01:05.450 --> 4:01:09.130 Starlink turned off support for the Starlink terminals that Russians 4:01:09.150 --> 4:01:11.880 were using, right? And it seems that they have this registry, 4:01:11.940 --> 4:01:16.790 which is oftentimes units in Ukraine will either fundraise purchase 4:01:16.910 --> 4:01:19.330 or have donated to them a Starlink terminal and then 4:01:19.350 --> 4:01:21.390 they can go to the Ministry of Defense and be like, hey, 4:01:21.410 --> 4:01:23.410 can you add this to your list? And then it's 4:01:23.450 --> 4:01:27.870 treated differently by the company as opposed to like, and 4:01:27.910 --> 4:01:31.590 I guess the deal there is to avoid Russians buying it. 4:01:31.630 --> 4:01:33.850 They don't want to be supportive of Russia invading Ukraine, 4:01:33.870 --> 4:01:38.170 at least in that way. On X.com, the Everything website, 4:01:38.310 --> 4:01:41.030 Elon Musk claimed that, quote, Starshield systems are owned and 4:01:41.070 --> 4:01:43.950 controlled by the US government. Any limits on speed or 4:01:44.070 --> 4:01:48.200 usage are decided by the US military and ultimately POTUS. Starlink, 4:01:48.220 --> 4:01:52.620 of course, is a commercial service owned by SpaceX. I'm 4:01:52.640 --> 4:01:56.500 continuing quote from Musk here. Usage of Starlink is limited 4:01:56.580 --> 4:01:59.200 to civilian or defense activities cannot be used for offensive 4:01:59.250 --> 4:02:02.270 military action as doing so would be inappropriate for a 4:02:02.290 --> 4:02:06.510 commercial company. On the 17th of October, Marco Rubio then 4:02:06.550 --> 4:02:09.190 went on to claim that Ukraine does not have Starshield. 4:02:09.490 --> 4:02:10.830 On Starshield, what's going on? 4:02:10.870 --> 4:02:12.170 Because Elon Musk said. 4:02:12.110 --> 4:02:13.000 It's up to the president. 4:02:13.420 --> 4:02:17.910 Well, Starshield or Starlink? Well, yeah, I know it's confusing. 4:02:18.190 --> 4:02:23.530 So Starlink is a commercial product. And so it's regulated 4:02:23.610 --> 4:02:26.270 and handled as a commercial product. Star Shield is a 4:02:26.310 --> 4:02:30.600 defense product, a military product. And as I said, I mean, 4:02:30.660 --> 4:02:34.620 that is something that we have a military, United States 4:02:34.660 --> 4:02:38.080 military uses. It's not at this moment available to Ukraine. 4:02:38.100 --> 4:02:40.660 And that's under conversation. It's under discussion right now about 4:02:40.700 --> 4:02:41.340 how they would want. 4:02:41.240 --> 4:02:41.620 To use it. 4:02:41.900 --> 4:02:43.280 No, but did the U.S. 4:02:43.300 --> 4:02:44.860 Have anything to do with it not working in Ukraine 4:02:44.880 --> 4:02:45.260 at the moment? 4:02:45.280 --> 4:02:46.300 Zelensky said it was deliberate. 4:02:46.320 --> 4:02:48.600 Well, I don't know what Zelensky said. I'm not sure 4:02:48.620 --> 4:02:51.270 Zelensky knows what he's talking about, but it wasn't deliberate. 4:02:51.290 --> 4:02:53.410 We had nothing to do with it. The United States, 4:02:53.450 --> 4:02:56.450 nobody ordered that Starlink speed to be slowed down. 4:02:57.550 --> 4:03:00.630 So, subsequently, the Wall Street Journal reported that, quote, a 4:03:00.690 --> 4:03:03.610 person familiar with the situation said Musk talked to multiple 4:03:03.660 --> 4:03:07.680 senior administration officials, including with Trump, before imposing the new 4:03:07.740 --> 4:03:11.030 speed cap. which Ukrainian officials said had allowed Russian missiles 4:03:11.050 --> 4:03:14.290 to evade their defensive. Tensions between the United States and 4:03:14.380 --> 4:03:18.620 Ukraine are really growing right now. Zelensky has claimed that 4:03:18.660 --> 4:03:21.440 Trump administration has cut intelligence support, which has resulted in 4:03:21.520 --> 4:03:24.750 failing to track missile strikes into Ukraine. Trump has claimed 4:03:24.770 --> 4:03:28.340 the US still shares intelligence, but he went on to say... We've. 4:03:28.240 --> 4:03:29.440 Given a lot to Ukraine. 4:03:29.980 --> 4:03:30.500 You know what? 4:03:30.560 --> 4:03:33.970 We've given a lot to Ukraine. They've given nothing to us. 4:03:34.420 --> 4:03:39.350 Remember that. We've given hundreds of billions of dollars. I 4:03:39.410 --> 4:03:42.110 gave the javelins to Ukraine when he knocked out. That 4:03:42.130 --> 4:03:44.610 was me. Obama gave him pillows. 4:03:45.170 --> 4:03:46.130 You know the expression? 4:03:46.230 --> 4:03:50.170 Obama gave him sheets and pillows. Trump gave him the javelins. 4:03:50.210 --> 4:03:52.970 So don't tell me about Ukraine. We've given a lot 4:03:52.990 --> 4:03:55.320 to Ukraine. They've given us nothing. 4:03:55.900 --> 4:03:59.460 So Trump being pretty combative there, this seems to obviously 4:03:59.480 --> 4:04:03.600 be ignoring the minerals deal. People will remember the very 4:04:03.740 --> 4:04:08.390 infamous Trump-Vance Zelensky meeting at the White House, which resulted 4:04:08.410 --> 4:04:12.030 in this minerals deal. Trump has also repeatedly tried to 4:04:12.110 --> 4:04:14.410 blame Zelensky for diesel prices. 4:04:14.930 --> 4:04:17.070 I want Zelensky to stop and I want Putin. Now, 4:04:17.110 --> 4:04:21.520 if you tell me that Zelensky... is again shooting at refineries, 4:04:22.100 --> 4:04:24.960 all he's doing is making the world oil price higher. 4:04:25.140 --> 4:04:25.900 And he is doing that. 4:04:26.160 --> 4:04:29.520 Well, I think that's a disgrace. There's plenty of other targets. 4:04:29.540 --> 4:04:31.100 They don't have to hit. There are a lot of 4:04:31.160 --> 4:04:34.180 targets that you can hit. But when you shoot at 4:04:34.240 --> 4:04:37.700 diesel refineries where you make diesel oil, and we need that, 4:04:38.200 --> 4:04:41.510 and the world needs that, then he's not doing a 4:04:41.550 --> 4:04:42.630 good service for the world. 4:04:43.110 --> 4:04:45.710 Failure of the convention in the English language to use 4:04:45.810 --> 4:04:49.330 one's voice going up to indicate a question. Which is great. 4:04:49.830 --> 4:04:53.620 Of course, the far bigger issue is that Trump has 4:04:53.640 --> 4:04:56.300 started a war with Iran, right? Which is the major issue. 4:04:56.340 --> 4:04:56.580 Yeah. 4:04:56.600 --> 4:05:00.050 That's the actual reason it's a diesel shortage. I want 4:05:00.090 --> 4:05:02.270 to play this clip, though, because he really went in 4:05:02.330 --> 4:05:03.490 on Zelensky on Monday. 4:05:03.950 --> 4:05:07.050 I think it's time for somebody else to negotiate on 4:05:07.090 --> 4:05:11.470 behalf of Ukraine. Because what's happened? Very little land has moved, 4:05:11.910 --> 4:05:15.660 but a million people, a tremendous number of people are dead. 4:05:16.080 --> 4:05:19.620 They're losing their male population. Ukraine could have had this 4:05:19.680 --> 4:05:21.940 thing settled a long time ago. If he would have 4:05:21.960 --> 4:05:25.140 listened to me, and you remember the Oval Office, he 4:05:25.180 --> 4:05:28.060 would have had this settled a long time ago. Maybe 4:05:28.120 --> 4:05:31.860 it's time for Zelensky to get somebody else to negotiate. 4:05:32.980 --> 4:05:33.100 So. 4:05:34.400 --> 4:05:39.480 It seems that this is Trump's move going into the midterm, right? 4:05:39.500 --> 4:05:42.600 It's that among other things that he's tried to do 4:05:42.700 --> 4:05:47.210 to draw attention from what's happening to fuel prices because 4:05:47.290 --> 4:05:51.030 of his war in Iran, he's now trying to blame Zelensky. 4:05:51.530 --> 4:05:53.790 Just to wrap up on Starlink, Starlink is a reality 4:05:54.110 --> 4:05:57.130 of war everywhere today. It's used in Myanmar and in 4:05:57.230 --> 4:05:59.950 Ukraine and all over the world. And this has the 4:06:00.030 --> 4:06:04.590 really unfortunate effect of making so many people directly reliant 4:06:04.670 --> 4:06:09.770 on Elon Musk specifically. It's a massive structural problem in 4:06:10.560 --> 4:06:14.280 conflict everywhere today that Elon Musk, especially in cases where 4:06:14.300 --> 4:06:17.440 there's not Starshield, where it's just Starlink, the commercial product, 4:06:18.090 --> 4:06:21.270 Elon Musk has the ability to turn off the connection 4:06:21.410 --> 4:06:24.190 to the outside world of so many places and movements. 4:06:24.830 --> 4:06:27.350 I'd be naive if I said I expected this to 4:06:27.370 --> 4:06:29.710 be the last time we saw that. But yep, that's 4:06:29.730 --> 4:06:31.800 what I got on Conflict Today. 4:06:33.340 --> 4:06:36.600 For our last story, let's return to this show's namesake 4:06:36.660 --> 4:06:41.240 and discuss a new executive order. On Monday, First Lady 4:06:41.260 --> 4:06:44.420 Melania Trump made a rare public appearance with her husband, 4:06:45.130 --> 4:06:48.660 to announce the creation of a new women's health division 4:06:49.200 --> 4:06:53.660 within the NIH, the National Institutes of Health. According to 4:06:53.680 --> 4:06:56.340 Health and Human Services, Trump created this new division via 4:06:56.420 --> 4:07:17.170 executive order, And this order also established a, quote, White 4:07:17.230 --> 4:07:22.770 House Women's Health Task Force, which, according to Trump, will, quote, 4:07:23.090 --> 4:07:27.030 mobilize the entire federal government to coordinate action focused on 4:07:27.110 --> 4:07:31.620 improving women's health. Here is the president announcing who will 4:07:31.740 --> 4:07:33.980 run the Women's Health Task Force. 4:07:34.800 --> 4:07:37.860 And this task force will be led by Secretary of 4:07:37.920 --> 4:07:39.830 Health and Human Services, Robert F. 4:07:39.860 --> 4:07:40.280 Kennedy. 4:07:40.300 --> 4:07:40.980 That's a big one. 4:07:41.970 --> 4:07:45.250 And he's been fantastic, I have to tell you. He's 4:07:45.270 --> 4:07:48.790 a little different. We understand that, don't we? Cheryl, do 4:07:48.830 --> 4:07:52.320 we understand? He is a little different. But that's what 4:07:52.380 --> 4:07:55.730 makes him good, I think. I'll let you know about it. 4:07:57.140 --> 4:07:58.200 That's what makes him good. 4:07:59.960 --> 4:08:00.340 I think. 4:08:01.120 --> 4:08:02.330 I'll let you know about it. 4:08:03.230 --> 4:08:07.970 Very reassuring. Very reassuring stuff. Ringing endorsement for the dude 4:08:08.050 --> 4:08:09.530 in charge of the women's health program. 4:08:10.410 --> 4:08:12.970 Now, this task force will also be co-chaired by Chief 4:08:12.990 --> 4:08:16.950 of Staff Susie Willis, and the task force will also 4:08:17.090 --> 4:08:21.790 include Pete Hegseth, among other cabinet members, though Hegseth is 4:08:21.870 --> 4:08:26.450 the first one mentioned in the order. So, real star-studded 4:08:26.510 --> 4:08:28.310 cast there in charge of women's health. 4:08:28.770 --> 4:08:29.240 Jesus. 4:08:29.850 --> 4:08:30.580 Great stuff. 4:08:31.550 --> 4:08:35.110 I'll read from the executive order, quote, My administration is 4:08:35.190 --> 4:08:39.420 committed to ensuring that American women are receiving the best 4:08:39.620 --> 4:08:44.500 scientifically supported medical advice in the world, unquote. Now, the 4:08:44.620 --> 4:08:47.900 NIH already has an Office of Research on Women's Health 4:08:48.000 --> 4:08:51.570 and has since the 90s, so it's unclear how the 4:08:51.610 --> 4:08:55.690 work of this division will differ from the office. To 4:08:55.770 --> 4:09:01.520 quote the New York Times, quote, Alina Salganikov, The co-chairwoman 4:09:01.640 --> 4:09:04.440 of the committee that produced the 2024 National Academy of 4:09:04.480 --> 4:09:09.260 Medicine report on quote, ending unequal treatment, questioned how the 4:09:09.310 --> 4:09:12.930 new division would set research priorities and wondered whether it 4:09:12.950 --> 4:09:15.310 would end up focusing on the interests of the Make 4:09:15.370 --> 4:09:20.390 America Healthy Again movement, like non-hormonal approaches to contraception and 4:09:20.450 --> 4:09:24.780 fertility awareness, for example. Quote, If you have a fixed 4:09:24.840 --> 4:09:27.200 amount of money and you're going to invest in new research, 4:09:27.660 --> 4:09:30.360 what are the trade-offs? What are you not funding in 4:09:30.400 --> 4:09:31.760 order to fund these new studies? 4:09:32.320 --> 4:09:32.980 Said Ms. 4:09:33.080 --> 4:09:36.600 Selganikoff, who now directs the Women's Health Policy Program at 4:09:36.620 --> 4:09:42.980 the non-profit health research organization KFF. Unquote. The questionable priorities 4:09:43.040 --> 4:09:47.170 of this division is not the only issue. Trump's new 4:09:47.250 --> 4:09:51.730 order does not secure or promise any research funding. And 4:09:51.770 --> 4:09:58.140 just last month, Trump cut $ 810 million from HHS. This 4:09:58.170 --> 4:10:02.340 was funding that was already pre-approved by Congress. During the 4:10:02.380 --> 4:10:06.400 wave of Doge cuts last year, HHS slashed funding for 4:10:06.440 --> 4:10:10.350 the Women's Health Initiative, a decades-long ongoing study focused on 4:10:10.370 --> 4:10:13.830 women's health, aging, menopause, and the effects of hormone therapy. 4:10:14.510 --> 4:10:18.470 After public pushback, funds for the initiative were reinstated, but 4:10:18.690 --> 4:10:22.550 the massive cuts to the NIH... still have negatively impacted 4:10:22.590 --> 4:10:26.270 research into women's health. Trump has cut or froze. 4:10:26.070 --> 4:10:28.110 Over $ 3. 4:10:26.870 --> 4:10:31.550 Billion in previously approved research grants, $ 2. 3 billion of which 4:10:31.810 --> 4:10:36.870 from the NIH, and Trump's 2026 budget proposal sought to 4:10:36.950 --> 4:10:41.970 slash the NIH budget by 41%, a cut of almost 4:10:41.970 --> 4:10:48.170 $ 20 billion. Since Trump took office, NIH has been rewarding 4:10:48.240 --> 4:10:53.690 grants much, much more slowly. with HHS, the Office of 4:10:53.750 --> 4:10:58.160 Management and Budget, or the White House flagging certain awards 4:10:58.250 --> 4:11:02.640 as quote, not acceptable, according to former NIH director Jennifer 4:11:02.680 --> 4:11:07.720 Toyer in an interview with NPR. Toyer explained how this 4:11:07.820 --> 4:11:11.920 interference from the White House has continued even after Doge quote, 4:11:12.160 --> 4:11:15.550 went away, but the other systems had been put in 4:11:15.610 --> 4:11:19.000 place to do the same function, unquote. I think this 4:11:19.020 --> 4:11:20.760 is something that doesn't get reported on enough, even though 4:11:20.860 --> 4:11:25.180 Doge doesn't exist in name the same way it did 4:11:25.220 --> 4:11:28.300 in the early months of the Trump administration. A lot 4:11:28.320 --> 4:11:31.180 of those same sorts of policies are being done by 4:11:31.620 --> 4:11:35.530 other institutions, other departments, other agencies, especially the Office of 4:11:35.570 --> 4:11:36.290 Management and Budget. 4:11:38.210 --> 4:11:41.150 They've learned this, right? It's the same with, we don't 4:11:41.190 --> 4:11:44.390 have Greg Bovino anymore, but we still have massive ICE detentions. 4:11:44.590 --> 4:11:47.840 They've learned you can't do it quite as loud and proud. 4:11:48.110 --> 4:11:51.270 Yeah, they can shut down the most sort of obviously 4:11:51.350 --> 4:11:56.300 obstructive and disagreeable parts while still doing the same stuff, 4:11:56.360 --> 4:11:57.100 just quieter. 4:11:57.180 --> 4:11:57.380 Yeah. 4:11:58.100 --> 4:12:00.980 According to the Washington Post, in fiscal year 2025, there 4:12:01.020 --> 4:12:05.240 was a 31% drop in the number of NIH-funded projects 4:12:05.320 --> 4:12:07.260 that included the word woman. 4:12:07.980 --> 4:12:08.160 Oof. 4:12:08.980 --> 4:12:12.100 An analysis by NPR found that between fiscal year 2024 4:12:12.100 --> 4:12:18.080 and 2025, Research areas that lost NIH funding included women's health, 4:12:18.400 --> 4:12:20.620 which was down almost $ 300 million. 4:12:20.640 --> 4:12:21.000 Jesus. 4:12:22.520 --> 4:12:27.700 Cervical cancer vaccine research, down $ 6 million. Stem cell research 4:12:27.780 --> 4:12:31.929 on umbilical cord, blood, and the placenta, down $ 6 million. 4:12:32.430 --> 4:12:36.490 And quote, violence against women research, which was down $ 2 million. 4:12:37.110 --> 4:12:40.190 Not to mention the other sort of health disparity cuts 4:12:40.870 --> 4:12:46.310 in regards to minority populations. Last July, HHS imposed new 4:12:46.350 --> 4:12:49.900 conditions on Title X funding to align the program with 4:12:50.060 --> 4:12:54.040 conservative values. Title X is the only federal grant program 4:12:54.080 --> 4:12:58.480 dedicated specifically to family planning, providing birth control, STI testing, 4:12:59.060 --> 4:13:03.000 and related preventative health services. According to New York Attorney 4:13:03.020 --> 4:13:06.090 General Letitia James, who led a coalition of 22 other 4:13:06.150 --> 4:13:10.170 states in suing to block the changes, to qualify for 4:13:10.210 --> 4:13:13.460 Title X funding under Trump, applicants would be required to 4:13:13.500 --> 4:13:17.110 align their programs, quote, with a sweeping set of political 4:13:17.170 --> 4:13:21.270 priorities as a condition of receiving or keeping federal funds. 4:13:22.110 --> 4:13:27.190 The priorities include eliminating diversity, equity, and inclusion practices, excluding 4:13:27.230 --> 4:13:31.390 and stigmatizing transgender people, discouraging the use of contraception in 4:13:31.490 --> 4:13:36.100 favor of natural family planning, and requiring clinics to counsel 4:13:36.220 --> 4:13:39.760 all patients toward marriage and parenthood, unquote. 4:13:40.140 --> 4:13:45.110 Jesus Christ. insane stuff yeah yeah this is like uh 4:13:45.590 --> 4:13:47.790 we've spoken on this show before about romania you know 4:13:47.810 --> 4:13:51.560 and their natalist policies like uh i don't know that 4:13:51.580 --> 4:13:52.800 shit scares me a lot. 4:13:53.020 --> 4:13:57.720 Yeah so the idea of hhs robert f kennedy jr 4:13:58.120 --> 4:14:01.400 and friends being put in charge of a new women's 4:14:01.460 --> 4:14:05.550 health initiative and task force not very reassuring to say 4:14:05.590 --> 4:14:09.180 the least no Trump's executive order also revokes a Biden 4:14:09.280 --> 4:14:13.500 memorandum and an executive order from 2024 to quote, advance 4:14:13.560 --> 4:14:17.440 women's health research and innovation. The memo established the first 4:14:17.580 --> 4:14:21.620 ever White House initiative on women's health research. And following 4:14:21.670 --> 4:14:25.950 Biden's executive order, the NIH dedicated $ 200 million to close 4:14:25.990 --> 4:14:30.130 the women's research gap. Biden then requested $ 12 billion from Congress, 4:14:30.730 --> 4:14:34.490 and ultimately the administration invested about $ 1 billion into women's 4:14:34.510 --> 4:14:38.040 health research in just 10 months. So, the sort of 4:14:38.360 --> 4:14:41.540 novel aspects of this announcement from Trump is just cribbing 4:14:41.600 --> 4:14:45.220 something Biden already tried to do and actually provided funding for, 4:14:45.900 --> 4:14:49.080 while Trump's version has no funding, is in the wake 4:14:49.140 --> 4:14:52.470 of hundreds of millions of dollars in cuts to funding 4:14:52.570 --> 4:14:56.400 for women's research, and is in control of Robert F. 4:14:56.410 --> 4:14:57.110 Kennedy Jr. 4:14:57.690 --> 4:14:59.170 So, not great, to. 4:14:59.130 --> 4:15:01.690 Say the least. Yeah, really, really bad. 4:15:02.090 --> 4:15:03.590 It's... Yeah. 4:15:05.570 --> 4:15:08.230 Other reporting from the Times has noted how this announcement 4:15:08.310 --> 4:15:11.610 is just weeks away from the midterms and Trump is 4:15:11.750 --> 4:15:16.050 polling at like 30% among women. And this could be 4:15:16.110 --> 4:15:19.820 some sort of ploy to get some more support for 4:15:19.840 --> 4:15:22.780 the administration going into the midterms. I don't know if 4:15:22.820 --> 4:15:25.900 that's part of the intent, but the timing has been highlighted. 4:15:26.300 --> 4:15:29.060 Great stuff. It seems such a weird one to go 4:15:29.120 --> 4:15:31.530 for before the midterms because you're giving a massive middle 4:15:31.550 --> 4:15:35.550 finger to half the population. Slightly more than half. But 4:15:35.650 --> 4:15:39.640 who am I? Previously, this has been a successful tactic 4:15:39.660 --> 4:15:41.720 for them. Yeah. 4:15:42.900 --> 4:15:46.730 Well, that does it for us, I believe. Here at 4:15:46.790 --> 4:15:47.650 It Could Happen Here. 4:15:48.390 --> 4:15:52.150 Sweet. Would you like... to email us? You can do so. 4:15:52.230 --> 4:15:57.040 It's coolzontips at proton.me. Still, occasionally a marketing company email 4:15:57.080 --> 4:16:00.740 will sneak through and earn a ban for its entire 4:16:00.780 --> 4:16:02.179 domain name. Oh, I did. 4:16:02.280 --> 4:16:05.640 I did actually specifically request marketing companies to send emails 4:16:05.660 --> 4:16:07.440 to that address last week when you were out, James. 4:16:07.480 --> 4:16:08.080 Fantastic. 4:16:08.280 --> 4:16:08.480 So. 4:16:09.110 --> 4:16:12.310 That might be my bad. I tried to stop. Fantastic. 4:16:12.370 --> 4:16:13.110 I tried to stop him. 4:16:13.130 --> 4:16:13.230 Great. 4:16:13.410 --> 4:16:16.150 Yeah, thank you. I look forward to hearing more about 4:16:16.190 --> 4:16:19.350 how your fucking book about investing is going to make 4:16:19.380 --> 4:16:21.740 you a great fucking guest on our podcast and that 4:16:21.750 --> 4:16:24.360 you haven't sent this to everyone else who has a podcast. 4:16:24.800 --> 4:16:25.060 Great. 4:16:25.760 --> 4:16:28.260 Let's just clip out James saying I look forward to 4:16:28.280 --> 4:16:31.380 hearing more and then throw that in every future episode 4:16:31.480 --> 4:16:33.759 along with a link to the email. 4:16:33.880 --> 4:16:34.500 Oh, God. 4:16:35.440 --> 4:16:36.740 Put a trans girl on your couch. 4:16:37.000 --> 4:16:38.180 We reported the news. 4:16:42.420 --> 4:16:43.340 Be reported the news. 4:16:48.930 --> 4:16:52.050 Hey, we'll be back Monday with more episodes every week 4:16:52.110 --> 4:16:53.950 from now until the heat death of the universe. 4:16:54.830 --> 4:16:57.270 It Could Happen Here is a production of Cool Zone Media. 4:16:57.470 --> 4:17:01.850 For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com, 4:17:02.270 --> 4:17:05.090 or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 4:17:05.430 --> 4:17:08.250 or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can now find 4:17:08.290 --> 4:17:11.210 sources for It Could Happen Here listed directly in episode descriptions. 4:17:11.700 --> 4:17:12.410 Thanks for listening.