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Speaker 1: Call zone media. Hey, everybody.

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Speaker 2: Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let you know

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Speaker 2: this is a compilation episode. So every episode of the

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Speaker 2: week that just happened is here in one convenient and

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Speaker 2: with somewhat less ads package for you to listen to

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Speaker 2: in a long stretch if you want. If you've been

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Speaker 2: listening to the episodes every day this week, there's going

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Speaker 2: to be nothing new here for you, but you can

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Speaker 2: make your own decisions.

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Speaker 1: Hello, everyone.

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Speaker 3: My name is Danal Kurd, and I'm a researcher and

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Speaker 3: analyst of Arab and Palestinian politics. Today, I want to

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Speaker 3: read remarks I gave at an event about higher education,

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Speaker 3: where I was invited to give the introductory remarks before

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Speaker 3: a panel of experts were going to speak on the

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Speaker 3: subject of higher ed around the world. And I was

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Speaker 3: asked specifically to talk about attacks on academic freedom here

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Speaker 3: in the United States. And I'm a good sport, always

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Speaker 3: happy to be of service.

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Speaker 1: So I did.

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Speaker 3: But then I was accused after my remarks of downplaying anti-Semitism.

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Speaker 3: So for this episode, I want to read those remarks

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Speaker 3: that I gave at this event. And then I'll explain

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Speaker 3: why that accusation that was leveled against me is so

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Speaker 3: insidious and harmful and outrageous and is part of a

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Speaker 3: broader problem of rampant anti-Palestinian racism in the United States. Okay,

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Speaker 3: here are the remarks I made at that event. Thank

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Speaker 3: you all for attending this panel. I wanted to briefly

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Speaker 3: situate this next discussion in the current political landscape and

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Speaker 3: give a quick rundown of what has been happening. The

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Speaker 3: news is so overwhelming, some of these details can be lost. First,

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Speaker 3: I think most of us have heard of the Trump

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Speaker 3: administration freezing funding for a number of universities. Many of

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Speaker 3: these universities have entered into negotiations with the administration and

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Speaker 3: agreed to make changes to the curriculum and internal structures

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Speaker 3: in order to drop the investigations against them and release

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Speaker 3: that funding. For example, Columbia University agreed to pay the

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Speaker 3: Trump administration $ 220 million, punish 70 of its students in

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Speaker 3: a variety of ways, including expulsion, and agreed to monitor

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Speaker 3: and report their programs for, quote, unlawful DEI goals. One

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Speaker 3: of the ways Columbia has agreed to monitor their own departments,

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Speaker 3: as The Intercept reported back in April, is by appointing

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Speaker 3: a vice provost in charge of ensuring a balanced curriculum,

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Speaker 3: that's in quotes, within the Middle Eastern, South Asian, and

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Speaker 3: African Studies Department. So the faculty in that department will

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Speaker 3: no longer run the department. As the Middle East Studies Association,

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Speaker 3: in a statement back in March 2025, noted, placing the

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Speaker 3: department under, quote, administrative receivership is a fundamental abrogation of

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Speaker 3: the autonomy of university governance. Like at Columbia, a lot

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Speaker 3: of these investigations and targeting of universities has focused on

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Speaker 3: the presence of DEI programs and allegations of anti-Semitism. The

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Speaker 3: Trump administration has been aided by recent Supreme Court rulings,

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Speaker 3: particularly the cases of Students for Fair Admissions v. the

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Speaker 3: University of North Carolina and Students for Fair Admissions v.

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Speaker 4: Harvard.

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Speaker 3: These cases overturned the 2003 case of Greta v. Bollinger

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Speaker 3: that had allowed higher education institutions to consider race in admissions.

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Speaker 3: Using this ruling, the Trump administration has gone after universities

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Speaker 3: with programs that assist students of color, as well as

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Speaker 3: initiatives focused on diversity. Allegations of anti-Semitism, especially in the

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Speaker 3: wake of campus protests over the past two years, have

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Speaker 3: also been used to attack universities. The American Association of

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Speaker 3: University Professors, in partnership with the Middle East Studies Association,

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Speaker 3: analyzed the data on the Title VI complaints around anti-Semitism,

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Speaker 3: which have indeed ballooned over the past two years. In

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Speaker 3: their report titled, Discriminating Against Dissent, they found that most

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Speaker 3: government investigations of anti-Semitism, 78%, are prompted by complaints received

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Speaker 3: from outside of university and college campuses, including from people

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Speaker 3: and organizations who have no relationship with the schools under investigation.

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Speaker 3: Of the 102 complaints filed with the Office of Civil

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Speaker 3: Rights that the report analyzes, all but one focus on

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Speaker 3: speech critical of Israel. The report documents the surge in

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Speaker 3: investigations since October 7th, 2023, with more investigations opened in

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Speaker 3: the last two months of 2023, 25 investigations, than in

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Speaker 3: all previous years combined, 24 investigations. Investigations broke record numbers

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Speaker 3: in 2024, 39 investigations, and are on track to do

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Speaker 3: so again in 2025, with 38 investigations as of September 30th.

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Speaker 3: This was back in 2025. So the Trump administration has

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Speaker 3: used both of these things, DEI and anti-Semitism, to investigate universities.

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Speaker 3: At the same time, they have also attacked the National

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Speaker 3: Science Foundation, the National Endowment for the Humanities, National Institutes

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Speaker 3: of Health, all federal funding sources for the majority of

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Speaker 3: research that happens at universities across disciplines, the natural sciences,

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Speaker 3: social sciences, and humanities. The Trump administration has additionally attacked

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Speaker 3: foreign students and the processes by which they are able

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Speaker 3: to get visas to study in the United States, which

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Speaker 3: is another way to get at a major revenue source

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Speaker 3: for many universities. Finally, and most recently, the Trump administration

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Speaker 3: put together what they called the Compact for Academic Excellence

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Speaker 3: in Higher Education. This compact offers universities that sign preferential

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Speaker 3: treatment for federal research money in exchange for agreeing to

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Speaker 3: a list of conditions. Conditions include freezing tuition, capping international enrollment,

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Speaker 3: requiring the SAT, and limiting faculty speech on political issues.

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Speaker 3: Only one university thus far has indicated their willingness to sign,

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Speaker 3: the University of Texas at Austin, with most rejecting and

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Speaker 3: a few expressing reservations. Whatever you personally think of these trends,

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Speaker 3: I think what they make clear is that there is

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Speaker 3: a concerted effort to change the trajectory and scope of

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Speaker 3: higher education in this country. And members of the Trump

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Speaker 3: administration have certainly made this explicitly clear. Vice President J.D. Vance,

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Speaker 3: speaking to the National Conservatism Conference back in 2021, said, quote,

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Speaker 3: we have to honestly and aggressively attack the universities in

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Speaker 3: this country, and that, quote, universities are the enemy. So

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Speaker 3: this is the reality we are facing, and there is

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Speaker 3: an urgency in understanding how this impacts the quality of

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Speaker 3: education in American universities for students, the quality of faculty research,

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Speaker 3: the ability of universities to maintain their independence, and the

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Speaker 3: role of universities in generating social mobility for marginalized people. Okay,

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Speaker 3: so that's what I said in my introductory remarks before

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Speaker 3: I turned it over to the speakers. Again, I was

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Speaker 3: accused of downplaying anti-Semitism, and I was also likened to neo-Nazis.

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Speaker 5: Why?

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Speaker 3: For citing the report by the AAUP. In case people

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Speaker 3: don't know, this is a very insidious trope of anti-Palestinian racism,

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Speaker 3: often leveled at Palestinians. The idea that Palestinians are inherently

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Speaker 3: anti-Semitic that they are akin to Nazis, that their identity

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Speaker 3: is not a national one similar to every other nationality,

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Speaker 3: but that Palestinian is a type of ideology centered on

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Speaker 3: the hatred of Jews. That is anti-Palestinian racism. UC Berkeley's

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Speaker 3: Department of Ethnic Studies has a pretty useful video on

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Speaker 3: the subject, on how anti-Palestinian racism is predicated on the

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Speaker 3: assumption that Palestinians are a threat to public order, and

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Speaker 3: that it presupposes Palestinians, quote, do not enjoy the same

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Speaker 3: rights to safety, and flourishing as others. Now, this overlaps

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Speaker 3: with racism against Arabs and white supremacy against people of

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Speaker 3: color generally. It overlaps with Islamophobia, but it is also

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Speaker 3: something distinct. There's a large literature on this. Dina Hurwitz

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Speaker 3: and Walter White, writing for the American Bar Association, highlight how, quote,

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Speaker 3: anti-Palestinian racism may also be Islamophobic, but importantly, not all

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Speaker 3: Palestinians or all Arabs are Muslim. Just as not all

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Speaker 3: Muslims are Arab, anti-Palestinian racism foments a distinct form of

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Speaker 3: discrimination faced by Palestinians and those advocating for Palestinian rights,

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Speaker 3: including non-Arabs and non-Muslims, for example Christians and Jews. Palestinians

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Speaker 3: and their advocates encounter anti-Palestinian racism and Islamophobia, regardless of

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Speaker 3: whether they identify as secular, Muslim, Christian, Druze, or Jewish.

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Speaker 1: End quote.

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Speaker 3: The Arab Canadian Lawyers Association has a report also on

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Speaker 3: this subject titled Anti-Palestinian Racism, Naming, Framing, and Manifestations. And

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Speaker 3: they define it right on the first page. Quote, Anti-Palestinian

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Speaker 3: racism is a form of anti-Arab racism that silences, excludes, erases, stereotypes, defames,

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Speaker 3: or dehumanizes Palestinians or their narratives. Anti-Palestinian racism takes various forms,

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Speaker 3: including denying the Nakba and justifying violence against Palestinians. failing

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Speaker 3: to acknowledge Palestinians as an indigenous people with a collective identity, belonging,

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Speaker 3: and rights in relation to occupied Palestine, erasing the human

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Speaker 3: rights and equal dignity and worth of Palestinians, excluding or

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Speaker 3: pressuring others to exclude Palestinian perspectives, Palestinians and their allies,

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Speaker 3: defaming Palestinians and their allies with slander, such as being

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Speaker 3: inherently anti-Semitic, a terrorist threat-slash-sympathizer, or opposed to democratic values.

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Speaker 3: And finally, political scientists Yasmin Aboulaban and Abigail Bakan wrote

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Speaker 3: a helpful essay on the matter for the Project on

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Speaker 3: Middle East Political Science, which I will link in the

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Speaker 3: show notes as well. They write, quote, Anti-Palestinian racism is

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Speaker 3: a form of racism which does not say its name.

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Speaker 3: Anti-Palestinian racism relies on various forms of coding to hide divisive,

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Speaker 3: undemocratic practices of exclusion in an age where overt racism

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Speaker 3: is considered ideologically distasteful. Now, they were writing a few

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Speaker 3: years ago, so I'm not sure how distasteful it remains.

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Speaker 3: But let me continue. Quote, The complexity is furthered in

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Speaker 3: that the language of anti-Semitism and Jewish suffering, language that

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Speaker 3: addresses systemic racism against the Jewish people, is a central

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Speaker 3: means through which to code anti-Palestinian racism and thereby suppress

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Speaker 3: claims for redress. I am currently, while recording this podcast

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Speaker 3: for you all, doing this thing where I'm going to

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Speaker 3: great lengths to prove that what I experienced isn't just

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Speaker 3: in my head. It isn't just me being overly sensitive.

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Speaker 3: That it isn't a situation where maybe the person who

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Speaker 3: complained had a good reason. That this was anti-Palestinian racism.

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Speaker 3: There is this huge body of work and so much

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Speaker 3: evidence outlining what anti-Palestinian racism is. There's even an argument

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Speaker 3: that it animates broader Islamophobia in the United States. And

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Speaker 3: it is a very real problem. But as Toni Morrison said, quote,

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Speaker 3: The function, the very serious function of racism, is distraction.

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Speaker 3: It keeps you from doing your work. It keeps you

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Speaker 3: explaining over and over again your reason for being. So

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Speaker 3: every time we take the accusation at face value and

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Speaker 3: launch into justifications, into mustering all the evidence that the

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Speaker 3: accusation is false, compiling the research and reports, that is

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Speaker 3: a waste of time. Arguably, even this episode is me

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Speaker 3: wasting my time in the way that racists intended. But

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Speaker 3: I also think there is an important function of discussing

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Speaker 3: anti-Palestinian racism, both for this episode and for the broader discourse.

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Speaker 3: The function is to start more immediately identifying it, pointing

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Speaker 3: and calling it out, and distinguishing it as a separate

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Speaker 3: thing that Palestinians in this country face. Because for Palestinians

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Speaker 3: in this country and a number of other countries, but

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Speaker 3: I'm speaking about the United States here, the situation has

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Speaker 3: gotten worse. And for Palestinian academics, which I can specifically

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Speaker 3: speak to, the situation in higher education has gotten worse.

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Speaker 3: The Middle East Studies Association has launched something called the

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Speaker 3: Academic Freedom Initiative, where they collect data on how institutions

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Speaker 3: of higher education are cracking down on their employees and

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Speaker 3: students in a variety of ways around the issue of Palestine.

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Speaker 3: And let's be clear, they weaponize the issue of Palestine

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Speaker 3: to take away faculty governance or any kind of independence,

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Speaker 3: whatever is left of it, on these campuses. So for example,

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Speaker 3: the Academic Freedom Initiative record 139 instances of employment retaliation.

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Speaker 3: So that's the universities retaliating against their employees. With 46%

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Speaker 3: of those who faced retaliation eventually terminated from employment altogether.

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Speaker 3: According to the latest update on their website, August 20th, 2026, 62%

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Speaker 3: of Title VI investigations at universities about antisemitism were instigated

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Speaker 3: by outside actors outside the university. And out of 116

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Speaker 3: events that they record universities interfering with, events related to Palestine, 55%

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Speaker 3: were cancelled. This is the state of affairs in higher ed.

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Speaker 3: Anti-Palestinian racism is rampant. But it's also, of course, rampant

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Speaker 3: in other sectors and in our discourse. And last but

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Speaker 3: not least, this country's official policies. But allies can refuse

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Speaker 3: to allow this to go unchecked. and can start to

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Speaker 3: insist that this kind of racism is identified and not tolerated. So,

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Speaker 3: the racists wanted me to waste my time. But hopefully

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Speaker 3: this can also be a call to action, to stand

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Speaker 3: up against anti-Palestinian racism more staunchly than before. Because we

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Speaker 3: need it. That's all I have for you today. Thanks

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Speaker 3: for listening.

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Speaker 6: The midterm elections are just two weeks away, with early

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Speaker 6: voting already underway. And this year, more than many others

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Speaker 6: in recent memory, there has been a plethora of attempts

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Speaker 6: to make it harder for you to vote, or making

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Speaker 6: it so your vote may not count the same way

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Speaker 6: it has before. Literally, in cases legislating whether Trump can

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Speaker 6: prevent mail-in ballots from being counted after Election Day, which...

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Speaker 6: he cannot, but also through partisan gerrymandering, mid-decade redistricting, and

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Speaker 6: the gutting of the Voting Rights Act, which has resulted

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Speaker 6: in the votes of some Black Americans in the South

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Speaker 6: being diluted across newly drawn districts. The president has promised

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Speaker 6: to give each U.S. citizen adult $ 5, 000 if Republicans maintain

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Speaker 6: control of Congress. And this past month, the White House

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Speaker 6: has used taxpayer dollars to broadcast pro-Trump campaign ads. About

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Speaker 6: a week and a half ago, there was widely publicized

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Speaker 6: photos of National Guard troops standing in front of ballot

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Speaker 6: drop boxes in Washington, D.C. Troops who National Guard officials

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Speaker 6: say were not stationed there to guard the ballot boxes.

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Speaker 6: But voter intimidation through the presence of military, federal agents,

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Speaker 6: or police officers at polling sites is a huge concern

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Speaker 6: going into these midterms, especially as ICE is detaining both

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Speaker 6: immigrants and U.S. citizens suspected of being immigrants at levels

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Speaker 6: never before seen. Earlier this year, the Michigan Republican Senate

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Speaker 6: candidate Mike Rogers, who's going up against Abdul El-Sayed, told

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Speaker 6: Kalamazoo County Republicans that he plans to recruit cops as, quote,

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Speaker 6: poll watchers, according to leaked audio from a GOP meeting.

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Speaker 6: also saying, quote, go ahead, try to intimidate them.

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Speaker 7: So we called the RNC early and said, hey, you know,

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Speaker 7: if we're going to do this again, I don't want

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Speaker 7: to wake up at 3, you know, go to bed

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Speaker 7: at 2 a.m.

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Speaker 1: A winter and wake up at 4 a.m.

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Speaker 7: A loose, I'm kind of done with that.

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Speaker 1: And so in a van full of.

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Speaker 7: Ballots that shows up in the middle of the year,

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Speaker 7: which I wish didn't happen. So what we got them

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Speaker 7: to commit to was they're going to have a healthy

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Speaker 7: voter integrity program. The fact that they've already hired a

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Speaker 7: deputy told you how far ahead of the game.

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Speaker 1: We weren't that far before. And I've been telling them,

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Speaker 1: you know what?

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Speaker 7: Let's put retired or off-duty police officers as our poll

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Speaker 7: walkers in Detroit. Because go ahead, try to intimidate them. Please.

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Speaker 1: What's that? We're trying to find them.

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Speaker 7: I mean, they wouldn't be able to wear their uniforms,

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Speaker 7: but they would, you know, all you got to do

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Speaker 7: is open your jacket and you see the badge on

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Speaker 7: the belt, right?

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Speaker 6: Also notable in this leaked audio is how Mike Rogers

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Speaker 6: insinuates his last Senate race, which he lost to Alyssa Slotkin,

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Speaker 6: was stolen from him because of a van full of ballots.

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Speaker 6: It seems almost inevitable that if Republicans lose these midterms,

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Speaker 6: They will invent all sorts of election conspiracy theories and

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Speaker 6: spread false claims of mass voter fraud to both contest

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Speaker 6: these results and limit free and fair elections in the future.

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Speaker 6: But this episode, I want to do an overview of

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Speaker 6: the way the Trump administration is currently trying to make

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Speaker 6: it harder to vote, what they have been able to

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Speaker 6: do before the midterms, and finally, what they could do

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Speaker 6: in the future. This is It Could Happen Here. I'm

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Speaker 6: your host, Garrison Davis. The big thing Trump wants, but

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Speaker 6: he'll probably never get, is the passage of the Save

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Speaker 6: America Act, a bill that would require voters provide photo

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Speaker 6: ID and proof of citizenship to register to vote in

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Speaker 6: federal elections, not just a driver's license or even a

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Speaker 6: real ID card. This would disenfranchise over 20 million Americans.

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Speaker 6: who do not have citizenship documents like passports or birth

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Speaker 6: certificates readily available. Trump's SAVE Act would also mandate regular

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Speaker 6: voter roll purges and aims to heavily restrict mail-in or

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Speaker 6: absentee voting. To quote the White House, quote, no mail-in

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Speaker 6: ballots except for illness, disability, military, or travel. Much of

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Speaker 6: Trump's election ire has been directed at absentee or mail-in voting,

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Speaker 6: despite this being the very method by which Trump himself

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Speaker 6: casts his ballot. I'm not going to focus on what

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Speaker 6: passing the Save America Act specifically would mean for U.S. elections,

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Speaker 6: because it's just not very likely that this bill will

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Speaker 6: ever pass the Senate. But as Trump grew frustrated at

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Speaker 6: the Save Act being indefinitely stalled, he turned to other

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Speaker 6: means for similar ends. On March 31st, 2026, President Trump

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Speaker 6: signed Executive Order 14399, or Ensuring Citizenship Verification and Integrity

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Speaker 6: in Federal Elections. This order was a test of executive

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Speaker 6: power by attempting to institute federal policies similar to provisions

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Speaker 6: within the SAVE Act, but through bypassing Congress entirely. In particular,

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Speaker 6: the order focused on two things, having DHS create, quote,

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Speaker 6: state citizenship lists, a list of individuals confirmed to be U.S.

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Speaker 6: citizens who will be above the age of 18 at

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Speaker 6: the time of an upcoming federal election and who maintain

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Speaker 6: residence in the subject state. And the order also directed

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Speaker 6: the United States Postal Service to, quote, initiate a proposed

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Speaker 6: reform tracking, and a new requirement that outbound absentee ballots

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Speaker 6: feature a unique barcode to facilitate tracking. and a provision

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Speaker 6: specifying that the USPS would not transmit any mail-in or

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Speaker 6: absentee ballots for any individual who does not appear on

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Speaker 6: a federal state-by-state list of pre-verified voters. To create this list,

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Speaker 6: which may or may not be the same as the

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Speaker 6: state citizenship list, the order keeps this kind of vague,

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Speaker 6: but to create this list, the Secretary of Homeland Security,

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Speaker 6: the Commissioner of the Social Security Administration, and the Postmaster

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Speaker 6: General would coordinate to implement this executive order. According to

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Speaker 6: the order, states would be able to, quote, suggest modifications

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Speaker 6: to the Postal Service's state-specific mail-in and absentee participation list.

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Speaker 6: So that all sounds bad, and a group of 23

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Speaker 6: states and the District of Columbia sued, alleging the executive

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Speaker 6: order was unconstitutional and and violated separation of powers by

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Speaker 6: infringing on the state's authority to administer elections. In June,

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Speaker 6: a district court in Massachusetts agreed and blocked the order.

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Speaker 6: The Trump administration appealed to the Supreme Court, and in August,

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Speaker 6: the court issued an order on the shadow docket, with

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Speaker 6: the conservative majority ruling 6-3, that the coalition of states

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Speaker 6: and the district court lacked the legal authority to block

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Speaker 6: the order because no harm had yet come from the

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Speaker 6: executive order. So essentially, the Supreme Court lifted the lower

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Speaker 6: court's injunction, allowing Trump's executive order to go into effect,

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Speaker 6: because they thought it was just too soon for states

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Speaker 6: to file a challenge because the order hadn't yet gone

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Speaker 6: into effect, and so the plaintiffs hadn't yet to suffer

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Speaker 6: any injury. This was totally crazy and like totally defeats

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Speaker 6: the entire point of the shadow docket. The whole point

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Speaker 6: of the shadow docket or the emergency interim docket is

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Speaker 6: that there's potential of serious irreparable harm if the court

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Speaker 6: does not intervene. But in this ruling, the conservative majority

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Speaker 6: wrote that the state's supposed concrete injury was only a quote,

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Speaker 6: unduly long chain of inferences. So this ruling in August

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Speaker 6: gave the Trump administration the green light to have DHS

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Speaker 6: create and send state citizenship lists to each state 60

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Speaker 6: days ahead of the upcoming federal elections, cataloging each person

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Speaker 6: in every state who DHS believes is eligible to vote. Now,

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Speaker 6: the Supreme Court wrote, quote, states are not required to

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Speaker 6: use the lists, but this executive order also requires the

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Speaker 6: Attorney General to, quote, prioritize the investigation and, as appropriate,

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Speaker 6: the prosecution of state and local officials or any others

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Speaker 6: who issue federal ballots to ineligible voters. So Trump is

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Speaker 6: effectively compelling states to follow these DHS lists or else

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Speaker 6: they will face prosecution. In their ruling, the conservative majority

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Speaker 6: wrote that The lower court concluded states did suffer a

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Speaker 6: present injury because the order required them to, quote, begin

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Speaker 6: planning now on how to comply with it. But, the

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Speaker 6: Supreme Court wrote, states, quote, cannot manufacture standing merely by

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Speaker 6: inflicting harm on themselves based on their fears of hypothetical

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Speaker 6: future harm that is certainly not impending, unquote. Though, of course,

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Speaker 6: the conservative majority found that the government is, quote, likely

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Speaker 6: to suffer irreparable harm without a stay. And so the

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Speaker 6: stay was granted, lifting the injunction. But there was something

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Speaker 6: interesting at the end of this Supreme Court ruling. They wrote, quote,

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Speaker 6: the court's disposition on this application does not mean that

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Speaker 6: any measure taken by the government to implement the order

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Speaker 6: will necessarily be lawful. On that score, time will tell.

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Speaker 6: But the order itself does not harm the states, so

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Speaker 6: the district court lacked jurisdiction to bar the government from

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Speaker 6: trying to implement it. So the Supreme Court at least

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Speaker 6: insinuates there that the Trump administration may not necessarily lawfully

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Speaker 6: implement this executive order, but in order for states to

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Speaker 6: file a challenge, the order has to at least partially

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Speaker 6: go into effect. When this ruling was issued, the Postal

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Speaker 6: Service had not yet published their final rule implementing parts

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Speaker 6: of Trump's executive order. And so the court never addressed

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Speaker 6: the part of the executive order requiring the Postal Service

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Speaker 6: to review the eligibility of voters before transmitting their absentee ballots.

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Speaker 6: And again, following this idea that the state's lawsuit was premature,

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Speaker 6: the conservative majority wrote in the order, quote, if the

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Speaker 6: Postal Service's final rule harms the states, they may challenge

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Speaker 6: that rule. And literally two days after the Supreme Court

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Speaker 6: issued this order, the USPS published their new final rule

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Speaker 6: amending the mailing standards regarding the transmission of mail-in or

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Speaker 6: absentee ballots for federal elections. Quote, The final rule introduces

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Speaker 6: new mail piece preparation requirements and data reporting standards for

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Speaker 6: federal ballot mail that must be satisfied prior to presenting

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Speaker 6: outbound federal ballot mail for acceptance into the mail stream, unquote.

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Speaker 6: As outlined in Trump's executive order, the Postal Service's final

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Speaker 6: rule would require states use new standardized mail-in ballot envelope

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Speaker 6: designs to be compatible with automated processing, display a consistent

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Speaker 6: election mail logo, and a unique intelligent mail barcode. But

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Speaker 6: the rule also introduced a new digital quote federal ballot

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Speaker 6: mail portal that state and local election officials would have

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Speaker 6: to use to administer absentee ballots. Not only would this

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Speaker 6: portal be how state officials certified the design of their

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Speaker 6: standardized envelopes, but election officials would also have to upload

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Speaker 6: the name and address of each absentee or mail-in voter

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Speaker 6: as found on the outbound federal ballot mail envelope, the

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Speaker 6: issuing state, and the intelligent mail barcode. This data would

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Speaker 6: have to be submitted to the portal, quote, prior to

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Speaker 6: presenting in outbound federal ballot mailing for acceptance. Rather than

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Speaker 6: the 60-day deadline in Trump's executive order, the Postal Service's

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Speaker 6: final rule recommends states upload this voter data into the

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Speaker 6: portal at least 30 days before the election. This, quote,

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Speaker 6: flexible 30-day timeline accommodates variations in state law, unquote. But importantly,

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Speaker 6: this voter data must be submitted to this new digital

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Speaker 6: portal before the Postal Service will accept.

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Speaker 1: Any mail-in ballots.

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Speaker 6: Quote, there should be minimal to no delay between a

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Speaker 6: portal upload and a mailer's ability to present the mailing

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Speaker 6: for acceptance. the Postal Service will generally not accept outbound

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Speaker 6: federal ballot mailings unless compliance with the new rules standards

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Speaker 6: has been verified, unquote. This new final rule did state

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Speaker 6: that the Postal Service would not play, quote, any role

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Speaker 6: in determining voter eligibility, maintaining voter rules, or counting ballots.

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Speaker 6: But the rule also states, quote, portal data will also

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Speaker 6: be available, for verification purposes on a nationwide basis, unquote.

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Speaker 6: If some of that just sounds confusing, that's because it is.

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Speaker 6: The implementation of Trump's executive order in this final rule

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Speaker 6: was not very clear at all, did not follow proper protocol,

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Speaker 6: and resulted in whistleblowers from USPS coming forward with concerns

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Speaker 6: about the implementation of this final rule. And though the

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Speaker 6: Supreme Court stayed one injunction blocking the implementation of the

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Speaker 6: executive order, a separate temporary restraining order prevented certain sections

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Speaker 6: of this final rule from immediately going into effect. The

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Speaker 6: published final rule says that the Postal Service is ready

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Speaker 6: to immediately implement these new standards in preparation for the

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Speaker 6: 2026 election as soon as all of the lower court

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Speaker 6: injunctions are lifted. But a few days after the rule

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Speaker 6: was published, A coalition of 23 states again filed a lawsuit,

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Speaker 6: as instructed by the Supreme Court, and the same district

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Speaker 6: court judge issued a new preliminary injunction. And then on

427
00:29:25,340 --> 00:29:30,550
Speaker 6: September 13th, a second federal judge also blocked the Postal

428
00:29:30,570 --> 00:29:36,270
Speaker 6: Service's newly adopted final rule. Trump appointee Judge Carl Nichols

429
00:29:36,810 --> 00:29:39,630
Speaker 6: found that the Postal Service lacked the authority to require

430
00:29:39,710 --> 00:29:43,820
Speaker 6: states submit a list of eligible voters to this online

431
00:29:43,900 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 6: portal and only transmit ballots to voters verified on the portal.

432
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:53,670
Speaker 6: Judge Nichols wrote that if the rule was implemented, there

433
00:29:53,690 --> 00:29:57,570
Speaker 6: would be a, quote, increased risk that a significant number

434
00:29:57,710 --> 00:30:02,850
Speaker 6: of otherwise appropriate absentee or mail-in ballots will ultimately not

435
00:30:02,930 --> 00:30:08,070
Speaker 6: be counted in the upcoming elections, unquote. And then just

436
00:30:08,190 --> 00:30:11,730
Speaker 6: a day later, the Supreme Court issued a shadow docket

437
00:30:11,790 --> 00:30:16,170
Speaker 6: ruling denying the Trump administration's request to lift the first

438
00:30:16,230 --> 00:30:20,100
Speaker 6: injunction blocking the implementation of the Postal Service's final rule,

439
00:30:20,860 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 6: finding that, quote, the government is unlikely to succeed on

440
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:28,460
Speaker 6: the merits of its challenge. And this appeared to be

441
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:33,830
Speaker 6: a 7-2 ruling, with Samuel Alito penning a dissent, which

442
00:30:33,870 --> 00:30:38,850
Speaker 6: was joined by Clarence Thomas. Though Brett Kavanaugh wrote a

443
00:30:39,270 --> 00:30:44,250
Speaker 6: one-paragraph concurring opinion agreeing to let the injunction against the

444
00:30:44,330 --> 00:30:49,330
Speaker 6: rule remain, though he suggested that the Postal Service may

445
00:30:49,590 --> 00:30:52,530
Speaker 6: have the authority to implement the rule in the future,

446
00:30:53,350 --> 00:30:57,890
Speaker 6: just not in the two months prior to an election, stating, quote,

447
00:30:58,590 --> 00:31:01,430
Speaker 6: In my view, based on the briefing the court has

448
00:31:01,470 --> 00:31:05,390
Speaker 6: received at this interim stage, there is at least a

449
00:31:05,490 --> 00:31:09,230
Speaker 6: fair prospect that the final rule falls within the Postal

450
00:31:09,270 --> 00:31:13,810
Speaker 6: Service's statutory authority. But applying the rule in the 2026

451
00:31:13,810 --> 00:31:17,709
Speaker 6: elections would be arbitrary and capricious in violation of the

452
00:31:17,790 --> 00:31:21,450
Speaker 6: Administrative Procedure Act because state and local officials do not

453
00:31:21,530 --> 00:31:25,610
Speaker 6: have sufficient time to reasonably implement the rule before the elections.

454
00:31:26,270 --> 00:31:29,330
Speaker 6: For that reason, I concur in the denial of the

455
00:31:29,490 --> 00:31:35,080
Speaker 6: application for stay, unquote. We'll come back to the future

456
00:31:35,210 --> 00:31:37,780
Speaker 6: implications of this ruling at the end of the episode.

457
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:54,380
Speaker 6: But first, here's some ads. Okay, we are back. Restricting

458
00:31:54,580 --> 00:31:58,080
Speaker 6: mail-in voting and this final rule from the Postal Service

459
00:31:58,540 --> 00:32:02,060
Speaker 6: is only one half of Trump's executive order. The other

460
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:07,110
Speaker 6: concerns the creation of state citizenship lists to verify voters.

461
00:32:08,110 --> 00:32:13,090
Speaker 6: The federal government does not have a centralized registry of citizens.

462
00:32:14,110 --> 00:32:19,220
Speaker 6: But since last year, DHS has been trying to retrofit

463
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:22,740
Speaker 6: something called the SAVE system into not to be confused

464
00:32:22,780 --> 00:32:26,380
Speaker 6: with the SAVE Act, though both aim to suppress voters.

465
00:32:27,420 --> 00:32:31,090
Speaker 6: But the DHS has been trying to expand this SAVE

466
00:32:31,190 --> 00:32:35,850
Speaker 6: system so it can be used to verify large batches

467
00:32:35,990 --> 00:32:39,810
Speaker 6: of voters by integrating data from other agencies like the

468
00:32:39,830 --> 00:32:45,300
Speaker 6: State Department and the Social Security Administration. SAVE, in this case,

469
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:52,290
Speaker 6: stands for Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements. It was created

470
00:32:52,350 --> 00:32:56,590
Speaker 6: in the 80s to verify the citizenship and immigration status

471
00:32:56,790 --> 00:33:01,790
Speaker 6: of people applying for public benefits like Medicaid and food stamps.

472
00:33:02,770 --> 00:33:07,330
Speaker 6: In March of 2025, Trump signed a different executive order

473
00:33:07,790 --> 00:33:13,010
Speaker 6: titled Preserving and Protecting the Integrity of American Elections, which

474
00:33:13,130 --> 00:33:16,770
Speaker 6: instructed DHS to put new systems into place to allow

475
00:33:16,990 --> 00:33:20,540
Speaker 6: state and local authorities to to verify the citizenship status

476
00:33:20,780 --> 00:33:25,180
Speaker 6: of those registered to vote, and directed the Social Security

477
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:28,920
Speaker 6: Administration to make their records available to DHS for that purpose.

478
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:34,790
Speaker 6: So DHS began modifying the SAVE system by incorporating confidential

479
00:33:34,810 --> 00:33:39,050
Speaker 6: data from the Social Security Administration and altering the system

480
00:33:39,230 --> 00:33:43,770
Speaker 6: to allow authorities to conduct bulk searches of multiple individuals

481
00:33:44,030 --> 00:33:49,170
Speaker 6: at once. To date, 27 states already use the save

482
00:33:49,230 --> 00:33:54,230
Speaker 6: system to verify voters. And last year, some states began

483
00:33:54,310 --> 00:34:00,580
Speaker 6: testing the newly modified database. After Trump signed this election

484
00:34:00,620 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 6: integrity order last year, voting rights organizations sued and a

485
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:11,489
Speaker 6: district court blocked the order, finding that the overhauled save system, quote,

486
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:15,360
Speaker 6: trampled on the privacy rights of American citizens in a

487
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:19,500
Speaker 6: manner that threatens the sacred right to vote. But the

488
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:22,840
Speaker 6: Trump administration went to the Supreme Court, asking them to

489
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 6: lift the district court's injunction, alleging that the government faced

490
00:34:28,540 --> 00:34:31,860
Speaker 6: irreparable harm if they weren't allowed to use the save

491
00:34:31,930 --> 00:34:36,630
Speaker 6: system to purge voter rolls. Without a full briefing or

492
00:34:36,810 --> 00:34:41,589
Speaker 6: oral argument, the conservative majority ruled 6-3, granting the stay.

493
00:34:42,390 --> 00:34:45,189
Speaker 6: clearing the way for Trump to implement the new safe

494
00:34:45,250 --> 00:34:49,890
Speaker 6: system and allow DHS to purge voter rolls. I talked

495
00:34:49,910 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 6: about this a little bit in an executive disorder episode

496
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 6: a few weeks ago. In the lawsuit that first prevented

497
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:02,160
Speaker 6: the government from using this newly modified safe system, the

498
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 6: plaintiffs alleged that the integration of SSA, Social Security Administration data,

499
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:11,529
Speaker 6: violates multiple privacy protections. and that the use of the

500
00:35:11,570 --> 00:35:15,370
Speaker 6: data to purge voter rolls risks irreparable harm to voters

501
00:35:15,910 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 6: who are mistakenly removed from voter rolls due to inaccurate

502
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:25,420
Speaker 6: or out-of-date information in the databases that Save is using.

503
00:35:26,500 --> 00:35:31,840
Speaker 6: And this harm is not just hypothetical. When Texas began

504
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:36,540
Speaker 6: testing out the newly modified Save system last year, it

505
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:40,900
Speaker 6: had an error rate of over 20%. And part of

506
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:44,360
Speaker 6: why the SAFE system is so inaccurate, especially now that

507
00:35:44,410 --> 00:35:49,290
Speaker 6: it's pulling from Social Security data, is because Social Security

508
00:35:49,310 --> 00:35:54,690
Speaker 6: Administration data does not necessarily reflect someone's current immigration or

509
00:35:54,790 --> 00:35:59,950
Speaker 6: citizenship status. For example, I was given an SSN as

510
00:35:59,989 --> 00:36:03,879
Speaker 6: a teenager after my family immigrated to the U.S., but

511
00:36:03,940 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 6: because I later acquired U.S. citizenship through one of my parents,

512
00:36:08,460 --> 00:36:12,020
Speaker 6: my Social Security number was does not correspond to my

513
00:36:12,140 --> 00:36:16,340
Speaker 6: citizenship status, and I often have to verify my citizenship

514
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:19,460
Speaker 6: status with a passport. It's also important to keep in

515
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:22,920
Speaker 6: mind that Social Security Administration data is not just Social

516
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:27,750
Speaker 6: Security numbers, but also, quote, names, dates and places of birth,

517
00:36:28,250 --> 00:36:34,549
Speaker 6: citizenship indicators, death records, and information obtained while processing requests

518
00:36:34,850 --> 00:36:39,440
Speaker 6: for Social Security numbers, per the Supreme Court. So if

519
00:36:39,540 --> 00:36:44,800
Speaker 6: the save system flags someone or a search comes up inconclusive,

520
00:36:45,460 --> 00:36:49,450
Speaker 6: voters could be required to take additional affirmative steps to

521
00:36:49,590 --> 00:36:54,610
Speaker 6: prove their citizenship or naturalization, possibly within a very short

522
00:36:54,670 --> 00:36:59,310
Speaker 6: window or risk being removed from the voter rules and

523
00:36:59,750 --> 00:37:03,540
Speaker 6: unable to exercise their right to vote. In the short,

524
00:37:03,860 --> 00:37:08,840
Speaker 6: unsigned opinion, the conservative majority writes, quote, If the modified

525
00:37:08,910 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 6: SAVE program is unable to confirm that an individual is

526
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:15,799
Speaker 6: a citizen, the agency is required to contact the individual

527
00:37:16,180 --> 00:37:19,440
Speaker 6: and request that he provide proof of citizenship to register

528
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:25,320
Speaker 6: or remain registered to vote, unquote. In her dissent, Justice

529
00:37:25,390 --> 00:37:29,469
Speaker 6: Jackson echoed the concerns of the plaintiffs that the, quote,

530
00:37:29,950 --> 00:37:36,500
Speaker 6: staleness of Social Security Administration citizenship records risked disenfranchising recently

531
00:37:36,580 --> 00:37:41,089
Speaker 6: naturalized US citizens. And again, this is not some sort

532
00:37:41,140 --> 00:37:47,589
Speaker 6: of hypothetical harm. According to a ProPublica report from last February, quote,

533
00:37:48,070 --> 00:37:51,469
Speaker 6: DHS has had to correct information provided to at least

534
00:37:51,670 --> 00:37:58,800
Speaker 6: five states after Save misidentified some voters as non-citizens. And

535
00:37:58,989 --> 00:38:03,920
Speaker 6: per Jackson's dissent, in Texas, one woman had her voter

536
00:38:03,940 --> 00:38:08,890
Speaker 6: registration revoked completely without her knowledge, and two more had

537
00:38:08,930 --> 00:38:13,370
Speaker 6: to provide proof of citizenship to maintain registered voter status.

538
00:38:14,210 --> 00:38:15,629
Speaker 6: I really don't want to gloss over the fact that

539
00:38:15,890 --> 00:38:21,300
Speaker 6: already in Texas, a U.S. citizen was removed from voter

540
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 6: registration because of the save system without her knowledge. She

541
00:38:26,580 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 6: did not know that this happened. Imagine you walk up

542
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:33,700
Speaker 6: to the polling site ready to vote only to learn

543
00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:38,130
Speaker 6: that that you've been removed from the voter rolls because

544
00:38:38,170 --> 00:38:43,810
Speaker 6: of DHS's janky verification system. That is actual irreparable harm,

545
00:38:44,430 --> 00:38:47,090
Speaker 6: but the majority opinion of the Supreme Court just didn't

546
00:38:47,150 --> 00:38:52,860
Speaker 6: consider this harm posed to lawful voters, but rather focused

547
00:38:52,940 --> 00:38:56,939
Speaker 6: on the harms the government could purportedly suffer if they

548
00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:01,540
Speaker 6: aren't allowed to use the revamped save system. The bulk

549
00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:05,930
Speaker 6: of the majority opinion focuses on defending the legality of

550
00:39:06,010 --> 00:39:11,620
Speaker 6: DHS using what is otherwise protected confidential data from the

551
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:16,060
Speaker 6: Social Security Administration. In contrast with the District Court, the

552
00:39:16,100 --> 00:39:19,240
Speaker 6: Supreme Court agreed with the government's argument that a provision

553
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:24,770
Speaker 6: of the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act, Section 1373,

554
00:39:24,750 --> 00:39:33,920
Speaker 6: actually already granted DHS permission to access confidential SSA data. Thus,

555
00:39:34,060 --> 00:39:37,759
Speaker 6: the use of that data in the SAVE program does

556
00:39:37,860 --> 00:39:42,790
Speaker 6: not violate the privacy protections within the Social Security Act

557
00:39:43,010 --> 00:39:46,430
Speaker 6: or the Privacy Act. And I apologize for this getting

558
00:39:46,469 --> 00:39:51,299
Speaker 6: a little jargony, but I cannot... emphasize the magnitude of

559
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:57,970
Speaker 6: this enough, Section 1373 has never before been invoked this way,

560
00:39:58,550 --> 00:40:03,410
Speaker 6: and poses massive threats to privacy. I will lightly paraphrase

561
00:40:03,489 --> 00:40:11,140
Speaker 6: for clarity 8 U.S.C. 1373, quote, notwithstanding any other provision

562
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:16,180
Speaker 6: of federal, state, or local law no person, agency, government entity,

563
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:19,410
Speaker 6: or official may prohibit or in any way restrict any

564
00:40:19,469 --> 00:40:23,870
Speaker 6: government entity or official from sending or receiving information regarding

565
00:40:24,010 --> 00:40:28,549
Speaker 6: the citizenship or immigration status, lawful or unlawful, of any

566
00:40:28,610 --> 00:40:34,840
Speaker 6: individual to DHS. Now, because of that first bit on, quote,

567
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:41,470
Speaker 6: notwithstanding other laws, the Supreme Court majority found that Section 1373, quote,

568
00:40:41,989 --> 00:40:48,250
Speaker 6: likely supersedes restrictions on disclosure elsewhere in the code. And thus,

569
00:40:48,450 --> 00:40:54,279
Speaker 6: DHS is authorized to request, receive, and send otherwise confidential

570
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:59,180
Speaker 6: information from the Social Security Administration. What the majority is

571
00:40:59,219 --> 00:41:02,940
Speaker 6: doing here is they're combining that notwithstanding clause with 1373

572
00:41:02,940 --> 00:41:08,930
Speaker 6: subsection C, which, quote, requires DHS to respond to inquiries

573
00:41:09,190 --> 00:41:13,870
Speaker 6: from state and local agencies seeking to verify or ascertain

574
00:41:14,230 --> 00:41:19,310
Speaker 6: the citizenship or immigration status of any individual. But as written,

575
00:41:19,730 --> 00:41:23,410
Speaker 6: that subsection does not require DHS to respond to requests

576
00:41:24,030 --> 00:41:28,640
Speaker 6: with confidential data from other agencies. It doesn't entitle them

577
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:34,960
Speaker 6: to otherwise protected data. In her dissent, Jackson summarizes what

578
00:41:35,219 --> 00:41:41,150
Speaker 6: the majority's opinion here is. Quote, as the majority sees things,

579
00:41:41,450 --> 00:41:46,630
Speaker 6: Congress's prohibiting interference with the disclosure of information regarding citizenship

580
00:41:46,650 --> 00:41:52,820
Speaker 6: status to DHS necessarily authorizes DHS to request and receive

581
00:41:52,860 --> 00:41:58,280
Speaker 6: that information from the SSA regardless of whether some other

582
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:05,259
Speaker 6: law prohibits disclosure. the majority thus treats Section 1373 as

583
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:09,920
Speaker 6: essentially overriding the limits that privacy laws impose on the

584
00:42:09,980 --> 00:42:16,290
Speaker 6: sharing of citizenship information with DHS, unquote. Now, Jackson calls

585
00:42:16,510 --> 00:42:21,290
Speaker 6: the majority's interpretation, quote, implausible, and accuses them of, quote,

586
00:42:21,450 --> 00:42:26,470
Speaker 6: misreading the statutory text in a few important ways. Mainly,

587
00:42:26,950 --> 00:42:31,879
Speaker 6: that these provisions don't empower citizens government agencies to take

588
00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:38,020
Speaker 6: any affirmative action to overrule privacy protections, but rather they

589
00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:43,279
Speaker 6: bar government entities, officials, persons, or agencies from unlawfully prohibiting

590
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:49,549
Speaker 6: or restricting the exchange of citizenship information with DHS. To

591
00:42:49,630 --> 00:42:54,910
Speaker 6: quote Jackson, quote, these provisions do not affirmatively grant any power,

592
00:42:55,610 --> 00:43:00,870
Speaker 6: nor do they override any explicit statutory limits on information sharing. Rather,

593
00:43:01,150 --> 00:43:05,710
Speaker 6: both provisions bar government entities or employees from interfering with

594
00:43:05,950 --> 00:43:12,270
Speaker 6: otherwise lawful exchanges of citizenship information, notwithstanding that such interference

595
00:43:12,350 --> 00:43:15,709
Speaker 6: may be permitted under some other law. When a law

596
00:43:15,790 --> 00:43:21,170
Speaker 6: imposes an express restriction on disclosure, it is that law,

597
00:43:21,570 --> 00:43:26,770
Speaker 6: not an entity, official, person, or agency, that is doing the, quote,

598
00:43:26,890 --> 00:43:32,069
Speaker 6: prohibiting or, quote, restricting. In the majority's opinion, they have

599
00:43:32,090 --> 00:43:37,549
Speaker 6: a little footnote responding to Jackson's claim here, quote, the

600
00:43:37,590 --> 00:43:41,310
Speaker 6: distinction the dissent draws between laws and those tasked with

601
00:43:41,370 --> 00:43:47,469
Speaker 6: enforcing them is illusory. Prohibitions necessarily include invoking a law

602
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:53,060
Speaker 6: to deny a request for or transfer of such information, unquote.

603
00:43:54,260 --> 00:43:59,720
Speaker 6: But this snarky little remark ignores that Other provisions in

604
00:43:59,910 --> 00:44:03,979
Speaker 6: the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act place, quote,

605
00:44:04,260 --> 00:44:10,560
Speaker 6: strict limits on what information SSA can disclose. And Jackson

606
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:16,040
Speaker 6: notes that those limits would be pointless if Section 1373

607
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:20,610
Speaker 6: supersedes any and all privacy protections, as claimed by the

608
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:25,180
Speaker 6: government and the Supreme Court majority. To quote Jackson, there

609
00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:28,880
Speaker 6: is no reason to believe that Congress meant to repeal

610
00:44:28,940 --> 00:44:34,529
Speaker 6: laws that would otherwise prohibit federal agencies from disclosing citizenship information.

611
00:44:35,230 --> 00:44:39,969
Speaker 6: Nothing in 1373 authorizes the modified save system or overrides

612
00:44:40,030 --> 00:44:44,160
Speaker 6: the provisions of the Social Security Act and the Privacy Act, unquote.

613
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:50,680
Speaker 6: To bolster her argument, Jackson also notes that Bill Clinton's

614
00:44:50,780 --> 00:44:55,270
Speaker 6: Office of Legal Counsel said, shared this same interpretation of

615
00:44:55,330 --> 00:45:00,610
Speaker 6: Section 1373 all the way back in 1999, writing that

616
00:45:00,660 --> 00:45:04,960
Speaker 6: the section does, quote, not clearly invest government officials or

617
00:45:05,020 --> 00:45:09,879
Speaker 6: entities with the affirmative authority to disclose information in circumstances

618
00:45:09,940 --> 00:45:14,339
Speaker 6: where they would otherwise be prohibited from doing so by

619
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:19,130
Speaker 6: a federal statute, unquote. And I go over all of

620
00:45:19,170 --> 00:45:24,969
Speaker 6: these details not to be Confusing or annoying, but because again,

621
00:45:25,030 --> 00:45:28,790
Speaker 6: this is a shadow docket ruling, meaning that this case

622
00:45:29,090 --> 00:45:33,029
Speaker 6: will likely be heard again by the Supreme Court, and

623
00:45:33,130 --> 00:45:47,180
Speaker 6: some of these justifications may matter in the future. So

624
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:51,590
Speaker 6: as bad and frankly bullshit as this ruling is, According

625
00:45:51,610 --> 00:45:57,259
Speaker 6: to Jackson, it will, quote, likely have minimal short-term impact.

626
00:45:58,180 --> 00:46:02,899
Speaker 6: And that's because the National Voter Registration Act prohibits states from, quote,

627
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:07,780
Speaker 6: systematically removing the names of ineligible voters from their rolls

628
00:46:08,020 --> 00:46:12,640
Speaker 6: in the 90 days prior to any primary or general election.

629
00:46:13,460 --> 00:46:16,350
Speaker 6: But this doesn't mean that it will have no impact

630
00:46:16,410 --> 00:46:19,350
Speaker 6: on the midterms, because the government is still allowed to

631
00:46:19,530 --> 00:46:25,260
Speaker 6: use the new save system, to conduct, quote, individualized inquiries

632
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:30,640
Speaker 6: per the majority. Jackson writes that states will, quote, at

633
00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:37,049
Speaker 6: most conduct individualized voter rule maintenance using the modified save

634
00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:40,790
Speaker 6: system prior to the midterms. But at the end of

635
00:46:40,830 --> 00:46:44,730
Speaker 6: her dissent, she stresses, quote, the harm caused by burdening

636
00:46:44,850 --> 00:46:50,870
Speaker 6: or disenfranchising even a few lawful voters' outweighs the non-existent

637
00:46:50,930 --> 00:46:54,219
Speaker 6: harm that the government experiences when it is prevented from

638
00:46:54,340 --> 00:46:58,380
Speaker 6: taking an action that it likely lacks the authority to take.

639
00:46:59,540 --> 00:47:05,340
Speaker 6: For 2026, voter intimidation remains the biggest threat to elections.

640
00:47:06,050 --> 00:47:10,989
Speaker 6: Whether that's coming from Mike Rogers' personal goons or some

641
00:47:11,230 --> 00:47:16,180
Speaker 6: federal force near polling sites, be that National Guard or ICE.

642
00:47:17,219 --> 00:47:22,359
Speaker 6: which DHS officials have said won't patrol the polls, but

643
00:47:22,540 --> 00:47:26,720
Speaker 6: told the Associated Press, quote, if an active public safety

644
00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:30,920
Speaker 6: threat endangered a polling location, they may be arrested as

645
00:47:30,980 --> 00:47:36,330
Speaker 6: a result of that targeted enforcement action. With DHS also

646
00:47:36,410 --> 00:47:40,730
Speaker 6: saying they are, quote, laser focused on prosecuting and removing

647
00:47:40,810 --> 00:47:44,690
Speaker 6: aliens who vote and preventing the dilution of the votes

648
00:47:44,950 --> 00:47:45,670
Speaker 6: of U.S.

649
00:47:45,850 --> 00:47:46,330
Speaker 1: Citizens.

650
00:47:47,330 --> 00:47:51,589
Speaker 6: Beyond voter intimidation, the Trump administration and Republicans may also

651
00:47:51,650 --> 00:47:56,940
Speaker 6: attempt to delegitimize election results based on allegations of fraud.

652
00:47:57,580 --> 00:48:00,640
Speaker 6: And this is yet another way the new save system

653
00:48:00,860 --> 00:48:04,620
Speaker 6: could be of some use. Given its high error rate,

654
00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:08,270
Speaker 6: it's quite simple to inflate the number of votes that

655
00:48:08,330 --> 00:48:13,219
Speaker 6: are under suspicion of being fraudulently cast to if the

656
00:48:13,239 --> 00:48:17,340
Speaker 6: Trump administration gains access to cast ballots or voting machines

657
00:48:17,820 --> 00:48:21,260
Speaker 6: and tries to audit the results. They don't even need

658
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:24,810
Speaker 6: to prove fraud. They just need to create an air

659
00:48:24,870 --> 00:48:29,550
Speaker 6: of uncertainty to manufacture a political crisis. And the SAVE

660
00:48:29,610 --> 00:48:34,270
Speaker 6: system can provide that uncertainty. But what really concerns me

661
00:48:34,410 --> 00:48:38,190
Speaker 6: is what could happen after the midterms, in the two

662
00:48:38,230 --> 00:48:42,320
Speaker 6: years before the 2028 election. there will be enough time

663
00:48:42,420 --> 00:48:46,920
Speaker 6: for the constitutionality of the Postal Service's final rule, with

664
00:48:46,940 --> 00:48:50,980
Speaker 6: the digital federal ballot mail portal and vague verification requirements,

665
00:48:51,620 --> 00:48:56,890
Speaker 6: to be fully litigated and potentially implemented. Supreme Court Justices

666
00:48:57,110 --> 00:49:00,330
Speaker 6: Alito and Thomas have already made it clear that they

667
00:49:00,430 --> 00:49:05,109
Speaker 6: want the rule implemented, and Kavanaugh seems sympathetic. Without the

668
00:49:05,290 --> 00:49:09,430
Speaker 6: time constraint of an impending election... where the rest of

669
00:49:09,489 --> 00:49:15,220
Speaker 6: the conservative justices stand on questions of constitutionality, delegating election authority,

670
00:49:15,300 --> 00:49:18,330
Speaker 6: and separation of powers as they relate to the Postal

671
00:49:18,350 --> 00:49:23,900
Speaker 6: Service's final rule, is not yet clear. And whenever they decide,

672
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:27,140
Speaker 6: I do want to echo the opinion of Trump appointee

673
00:49:27,540 --> 00:49:31,580
Speaker 6: Judge Nichols that the USPS final rule poses a quote,

674
00:49:32,020 --> 00:49:36,740
Speaker 6: increased risk that a significant number of otherwise appropriate absentee

675
00:49:36,820 --> 00:49:41,089
Speaker 6: or mail-in ballots will will ultimately not be counted. If

676
00:49:41,170 --> 00:49:46,430
Speaker 6: the Republicans lose the midterms, which seems likely, Trump's general

677
00:49:46,530 --> 00:49:51,030
Speaker 6: power may be more limited. But that may also result

678
00:49:51,150 --> 00:49:55,550
Speaker 6: in his efforts being tailored to a few select issues

679
00:49:56,070 --> 00:50:00,350
Speaker 6: that he can direct his full executive power towards. And

680
00:50:00,650 --> 00:50:04,669
Speaker 6: the election issue has been a quite personal issue for

681
00:50:04,770 --> 00:50:08,160
Speaker 6: President Trump. I can't see him doing anything other than

682
00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:12,900
Speaker 6: doubling down on implementing the full extent of these executive orders,

683
00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:17,750
Speaker 6: including the, quote, state citizenship lists. But in terms of

684
00:50:17,790 --> 00:50:22,250
Speaker 6: something that can immediately happen right after the midterms, literally

685
00:50:22,310 --> 00:50:26,390
Speaker 6: the day after the election, states can start using DHS's

686
00:50:26,590 --> 00:50:31,620
Speaker 6: save system to purge voter rolls en masse by, quote unquote,

687
00:50:31,700 --> 00:50:36,859
Speaker 6: verifying large batches of voters. The only thing preventing that

688
00:50:36,900 --> 00:50:40,600
Speaker 6: right now is the 90-day prohibition on the quote-unquote systemic

689
00:50:40,660 --> 00:50:46,230
Speaker 6: removal before an election. On the question of save's legality,

690
00:50:46,910 --> 00:50:50,710
Speaker 6: the Supreme Court's conservative majority wrote that the challengers are

691
00:50:51,170 --> 00:50:54,810
Speaker 6: unlikely to prevail on the merits of their claims, even

692
00:50:54,830 --> 00:50:58,030
Speaker 6: though Jackson points out in her dissent that the majority

693
00:50:58,070 --> 00:51:03,360
Speaker 6: opinion breaks from previous interpretations of federal law and plainly

694
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:08,170
Speaker 6: misreads the statutory text. reversing their decision may require an

695
00:51:09,130 --> 00:51:14,630
Speaker 6: entirely new Supreme Court. Retrofitting the save system to conduct

696
00:51:14,750 --> 00:51:20,270
Speaker 6: bulk searches of potentially ineligible voters is one part of

697
00:51:20,330 --> 00:51:25,850
Speaker 6: a much larger strategy. Since 2025, the Trump administration has

698
00:51:25,890 --> 00:51:29,160
Speaker 6: tried to gain access to states' voter rolls, with the

699
00:51:29,180 --> 00:51:33,460
Speaker 6: DOJ suing over 30 states for not complying with federal requests.

700
00:51:34,540 --> 00:51:38,900
Speaker 6: over a dozen states, mostly Republican-controlled states, have complied and

701
00:51:39,020 --> 00:51:42,900
Speaker 6: handed over their voter registration lists. For states that have

702
00:51:42,940 --> 00:51:46,239
Speaker 6: not complied, the Trump administration has employed multiple tactics to

703
00:51:46,300 --> 00:51:50,089
Speaker 6: try to gain access to their voting records, including by

704
00:51:50,350 --> 00:51:55,650
Speaker 6: just seizing them physically, like in Georgia. We don't know

705
00:51:55,690 --> 00:51:59,990
Speaker 6: if this was done with Save specifically, but this past summer,

706
00:52:00,250 --> 00:52:03,620
Speaker 6: DHS notified the state of Nevada that they had almost

707
00:52:03,620 --> 00:52:10,400
Speaker 6: 16,000 non-citizens on their voter rolls. Then DHS said that

708
00:52:10,420 --> 00:52:15,470
Speaker 6: they were able to confirm at least 185 individual cases

709
00:52:15,550 --> 00:52:19,930
Speaker 6: of non-citizens registered to vote. But when state election officials

710
00:52:20,090 --> 00:52:22,850
Speaker 6: looked into these cases, they found that every one of

711
00:52:22,890 --> 00:52:26,600
Speaker 6: those 185 voters was actually a U.S.

712
00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:27,100
Speaker 1: Citizen.

713
00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:34,780
Speaker 6: Meanwhile, in Texas... save falsely flagged over 500 voters as non-citizens.

714
00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:41,040
Speaker 6: Simply put, having DHS try to determine the eligibility of U.S.

715
00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:45,610
Speaker 6: citizen voters doesn't seem like a good idea, and it

716
00:52:45,630 --> 00:52:48,830
Speaker 6: doesn't seem like they are very good at it. Except,

717
00:52:48,870 --> 00:52:52,089
Speaker 6: of course, this is precisely what DHS is setting out

718
00:52:52,130 --> 00:52:55,390
Speaker 6: to do, remove as many people from the voter rolls

719
00:52:55,610 --> 00:53:00,070
Speaker 6: as possible, whether or not they are actually eligible to vote.

720
00:53:00,950 --> 00:53:05,530
Speaker 6: The new save system would not only disenfranchise eligible voters

721
00:53:05,690 --> 00:53:10,290
Speaker 6: by removing them from voter rolls, potentially even without their knowledge,

722
00:53:10,410 --> 00:53:14,640
Speaker 6: like in Texas, but also in the age of ICE

723
00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:19,919
Speaker 6: mass deportations, The prospect that you as a voter could

724
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:25,100
Speaker 6: be investigated or scrutinized by DHS based on your name

725
00:53:25,160 --> 00:53:30,260
Speaker 6: being flagged by some database could absolutely dissuade U.S. citizens

726
00:53:30,380 --> 00:53:35,450
Speaker 6: born or naturalized from registering to vote and exercising their

727
00:53:35,510 --> 00:53:39,469
Speaker 6: right to vote, especially if they live with or are

728
00:53:39,590 --> 00:53:45,609
Speaker 6: in proximity to undocumented immigrants. And that fear, that intimidation,

729
00:53:46,489 --> 00:53:50,270
Speaker 6: That is part of the point. If Stephen Miller can't

730
00:53:50,410 --> 00:53:54,630
Speaker 6: strip naturalized citizens of their right to vote, this is

731
00:53:54,690 --> 00:53:55,609
Speaker 6: his compromise.

732
00:54:07,380 --> 00:54:08,080
Speaker 1: Hi, everyone.

733
00:54:08,260 --> 00:54:14,859
Speaker 8: This is future Mick adding some stuff for less future Mick.

734
00:54:15,450 --> 00:54:18,940
Speaker 8: we'll be hearing most of during the podcast. This episode

735
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:22,140
Speaker 8: took a pretty long while. I'm not sure how long

736
00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:25,200
Speaker 8: it will be in post-production, but for my own recording,

737
00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:29,160
Speaker 8: we talked for almost three hours, which is a lot. Therefore,

738
00:54:29,300 --> 00:54:32,799
Speaker 8: this episode will be cut into multiple pieces. Make sure

739
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:36,140
Speaker 8: to start at part one. I'm sorry for any awkward

740
00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:40,879
Speaker 8: breaks in the post-production, but it was very hard to

741
00:54:41,060 --> 00:54:41,479
Speaker 8: keep that.

742
00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:47,710
Speaker 1: In mind while we were recording. Hope you enjoy it. Welcome, everyone.

743
00:54:47,830 --> 00:54:50,510
Speaker 8: Welcome to It Could Happen Here, the podcast of things

744
00:54:50,870 --> 00:54:53,989
Speaker 8: falling apart and possibly how to put them back a

745
00:54:54,260 --> 00:54:54,700
Speaker 8: little bit.

746
00:54:55,320 --> 00:54:56,010
Speaker 1: My name is Mick.

747
00:54:56,820 --> 00:55:00,460
Speaker 8: As expected, I'm here with James Stout because James is.

748
00:55:00,420 --> 00:55:01,399
Speaker 1: Always here with me.

749
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:04,900
Speaker 8: But I'm also very happy to say hello to Molly Conger,

750
00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:06,560
Speaker 8: who's also agreed to join.

751
00:55:07,239 --> 00:55:10,300
Speaker 1: How are you guys doing? I'm great. I'm excited. I'm

752
00:55:10,340 --> 00:55:13,379
Speaker 1: pumped to learn about some weird Nazis. It's me and Molly,

753
00:55:13,420 --> 00:55:15,360
Speaker 1: but it's not an animal. So I guess some people

754
00:55:15,380 --> 00:55:17,950
Speaker 1: are already sad. I like doing podcasts with both of you,

755
00:55:17,989 --> 00:55:19,029
Speaker 1: so it's going to be fun.

756
00:55:19,969 --> 00:55:22,190
Speaker 4: I'm looking forward to whatever horrors we're about to learn.

757
00:55:23,150 --> 00:55:23,509
Speaker 1: Ah, yes.

758
00:55:24,130 --> 00:55:26,029
Speaker 8: I knew once I dove into this, I was like, okay,

759
00:55:26,050 --> 00:55:29,169
Speaker 8: I need to light the Molly signal and make sure

760
00:55:29,190 --> 00:55:30,669
Speaker 8: that I get you to come on as well.

761
00:55:30,690 --> 00:55:32,950
Speaker 4: You're about somebody else's Nazis for a change.

762
00:55:33,150 --> 00:55:33,910
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.

763
00:55:33,930 --> 00:55:37,739
Speaker 8: Like European Nazis with whom you're probably much less familiar,

764
00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:42,700
Speaker 8: but probably no less horrifying. So what we'll be talking

765
00:55:42,739 --> 00:55:46,210
Speaker 8: about today is the Save Europe Act. What it is,

766
00:55:46,510 --> 00:55:49,810
Speaker 8: what kind of European mechanisms it tries to use to.

767
00:55:50,310 --> 00:55:51,590
Speaker 1: Push through horrible shit.

768
00:55:51,930 --> 00:55:52,930
Speaker 4: That sounds xenophobic.

769
00:55:54,070 --> 00:55:57,390
Speaker 1: Anytime people are wanting to save a thing, like nine

770
00:55:57,450 --> 00:55:59,569
Speaker 1: times out of ten, we've got to ask who they're

771
00:55:59,590 --> 00:56:01,730
Speaker 1: saving it from. And if it's the presence of people

772
00:56:01,770 --> 00:56:03,209
Speaker 1: who aren't white, that's... Why.

773
00:56:03,110 --> 00:56:04,270
Speaker 4: Do you think it needs to be saved?

774
00:56:04,370 --> 00:56:04,719
Speaker 1: Yeah.

775
00:56:05,719 --> 00:56:07,960
Speaker 4: Are you worried about the dilution of Aryan blood?

776
00:56:07,980 --> 00:56:12,220
Speaker 1: Oh, you're so on point, Molly.

777
00:56:12,280 --> 00:56:12,980
Speaker 9: Oh, God.

778
00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:14,299
Speaker 1: You have no idea.

779
00:56:15,300 --> 00:56:17,660
Speaker 8: We're also going to look a bit at the people

780
00:56:17,739 --> 00:56:21,480
Speaker 8: who are orchestrating this because there are funny instances and

781
00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:25,719
Speaker 8: also horrifying instances. I've tried to make it a bit

782
00:56:25,760 --> 00:56:28,719
Speaker 8: of a mix of the two, but I'll be honest.

783
00:56:28,980 --> 00:56:32,080
Speaker 8: I've put this little project down a few times because

784
00:56:32,500 --> 00:56:34,779
Speaker 8: I just got angry about it. I need to make

785
00:56:34,820 --> 00:56:38,490
Speaker 8: jokes in order to make it palpable. Also, I have,

786
00:56:39,070 --> 00:56:42,090
Speaker 8: against my better judgment, decided to make a Blue Sky account.

787
00:56:42,330 --> 00:56:45,239
Speaker 8: So if anyone wants to reach me or If I

788
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:48,759
Speaker 8: do stuff incorrectly, you can contact me there. It's at

789
00:56:49,020 --> 00:56:54,200
Speaker 8: two sober possums. Stop harassing James if I'm the one

790
00:56:54,260 --> 00:56:57,399
Speaker 8: you're mad at. Originally, I intended to have a little

791
00:56:57,480 --> 00:57:01,120
Speaker 8: fun opening, but over the course of this research, I

792
00:57:01,160 --> 00:57:05,279
Speaker 8: got upset and angry. After reading an in-depth report from

793
00:57:05,320 --> 00:57:08,930
Speaker 8: the Justice for Prosperity, it became clear that a bunch

794
00:57:08,969 --> 00:57:12,390
Speaker 8: of forthright enthusiasts can be funny when you just look

795
00:57:12,450 --> 00:57:16,590
Speaker 8: at it superficially. But the report suggests that more nefarious

796
00:57:16,650 --> 00:57:21,010
Speaker 8: people are, at the very least, facilitating profoundly racist and

797
00:57:21,050 --> 00:57:26,250
Speaker 8: anti-democratic movements. At worst, it's the rich and powerful deliberately

798
00:57:26,310 --> 00:57:30,780
Speaker 8: pushing Europe towards fascism and emboldening wannabe brown shirts to

799
00:57:30,800 --> 00:57:32,660
Speaker 8: commit more acts of violence for.

800
00:57:32,680 --> 00:57:34,800
Speaker 1: Again? Again, yeah.

801
00:57:35,840 --> 00:57:38,860
Speaker 8: And it gets better because it's for a democratic proposal

802
00:57:38,900 --> 00:57:43,189
Speaker 8: that was doomed from the very start. Like red shirt

803
00:57:43,250 --> 00:57:47,450
Speaker 8: in Star Trek doomed. Like that one teenage couple having

804
00:57:47,510 --> 00:57:51,510
Speaker 8: sex somewhere in a horror film doomed. It's like, I

805
00:57:51,550 --> 00:57:55,570
Speaker 8: can't exaggerate how doomed this was. So let's get going.

806
00:57:55,770 --> 00:57:57,530
Speaker 8: What is the Save Europe Act and who are the

807
00:57:57,570 --> 00:58:00,650
Speaker 8: ones behind it? According to their own website, the Save

808
00:58:00,710 --> 00:58:03,340
Speaker 8: Europe Act is the first ever campaign to launch a

809
00:58:03,410 --> 00:58:08,260
Speaker 8: patriotic European citizens initiative. We demand that the political elite

810
00:58:08,280 --> 00:58:12,060
Speaker 8: halt their replacement migration and secure our borders, and protect

811
00:58:12,080 --> 00:58:14,920
Speaker 8: the ethnocultural identity of European nations.

812
00:58:16,060 --> 00:58:16,419
Speaker 6: Oh dear.

813
00:58:17,220 --> 00:58:19,700
Speaker 4: My eyes are getting wider with every clause of that sentence.

814
00:58:20,040 --> 00:58:21,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, those are some trigger words.

815
00:58:22,110 --> 00:58:23,710
Speaker 4: Like those TikToks of like, you know, when you say

816
00:58:23,910 --> 00:58:25,470
Speaker 4: like a dog's favorite words, you say, you want to

817
00:58:25,490 --> 00:58:27,550
Speaker 4: go to the park? You want to get a treat?

818
00:58:27,610 --> 00:58:29,750
Speaker 4: And the dog gets like progressively more alarmed.

819
00:58:30,710 --> 00:58:33,130
Speaker 1: Yeah, but then in a bad way. Yeah, that's me,

820
00:58:33,150 --> 00:58:36,300
Speaker 1: but negative. Okay, well, it's not getting any better.

821
00:58:37,110 --> 00:58:39,530
Speaker 8: So at first, we're going to dive into the Save

822
00:58:39,590 --> 00:58:42,130
Speaker 8: Europe Act itself, and then we're going to look at

823
00:58:42,150 --> 00:58:45,030
Speaker 8: the European Citizens Initiative.

824
00:58:45,720 --> 00:58:48,820
Speaker 4: So is that like a referendum, like a ballot initiative,

825
00:58:48,880 --> 00:58:52,180
Speaker 4: but for all of Europe? We're sorry, most of the

826
00:58:52,220 --> 00:58:54,200
Speaker 4: audience is American, so I'm going to be the token

827
00:58:54,280 --> 00:58:56,500
Speaker 4: dumb American here. I need you to explain to me

828
00:58:57,140 --> 00:58:57,560
Speaker 4: what's that.

829
00:58:58,040 --> 00:59:00,520
Speaker 1: We'll get there because I've laid it out.

830
00:59:01,100 --> 00:59:02,660
Speaker 4: Because Europe is not a country.

831
00:59:03,510 --> 00:59:04,110
Speaker 7: No, no, no.

832
00:59:04,140 --> 00:59:06,230
Speaker 1: Europe is a state of mind, Molly.

833
00:59:06,250 --> 00:59:06,630
Speaker 3: Right.

834
00:59:08,180 --> 00:59:12,470
Speaker 1: And a band. Oh, really? is it the final countdown oh.

835
00:59:12,890 --> 00:59:16,080
Speaker 4: I've heard that at a sports event yeah i've.

836
00:59:16,010 --> 00:59:19,660
Speaker 8: Heard those words in the long long ago sometime but

837
00:59:19,680 --> 00:59:23,080
Speaker 8: okay to make it a bit more clear for molly.

838
00:59:22,860 --> 00:59:25,300
Speaker 4: Specifically for the americans.

839
00:59:25,200 --> 00:59:27,700
Speaker 8: I'm not american so i can't i can't like banter

840
00:59:27,740 --> 00:59:31,090
Speaker 8: like that It's a legislative request that has to be

841
00:59:31,130 --> 00:59:34,290
Speaker 8: considered by the EU if certain conditions are met.

842
00:59:34,930 --> 00:59:35,770
Speaker 1: In the grander.

843
00:59:35,470 --> 00:59:38,510
Speaker 8: Machine of the EU, a citizens' initiative is a way

844
00:59:38,550 --> 00:59:42,570
Speaker 8: for Europeans to directly influence laws through the collection of

845
00:59:42,640 --> 00:59:43,700
Speaker 8: support and signatures.

846
00:59:44,280 --> 00:59:46,280
Speaker 4: So they've got a big petition going. They've got all

847
00:59:46,300 --> 00:59:48,060
Speaker 4: the races in Europe to sign their petition.

848
00:59:48,080 --> 00:59:50,860
Speaker 8: Yeah, think of it like a petition on steroids or

849
00:59:50,920 --> 00:59:55,340
Speaker 8: a protest that, for a change, cannot simply be ignored

850
00:59:55,840 --> 00:59:59,460
Speaker 8: by the powers that be. The charter itself is barely

851
00:59:59,500 --> 01:00:02,030
Speaker 8: a three-minute read, but I thought it would still be

852
01:00:02,070 --> 01:00:05,010
Speaker 8: too lengthy and dull. So I'll skip the preamble and

853
01:00:05,030 --> 01:00:07,530
Speaker 8: move on to the core claims and demands that they make.

854
01:00:08,330 --> 01:00:11,070
Speaker 8: Should you have the desire or the masochism to want

855
01:00:11,110 --> 01:00:13,590
Speaker 8: to read it yourself, you can find it on their website.

856
01:00:14,290 --> 01:00:15,970
Speaker 8: It will be in the show notes together with all

857
01:00:16,070 --> 01:00:19,700
Speaker 8: the other sources I've had the misfortune of reading. So

858
01:00:19,740 --> 01:00:21,560
Speaker 8: this is part two of the charter.

859
01:00:21,580 --> 01:00:22,600
Speaker 1: I quote.

860
01:00:23,200 --> 01:00:26,880
Speaker 8: Acknowledging further that Article 22 of the Charter of Fundamental

861
01:00:26,920 --> 01:00:31,760
Speaker 8: Rights of the European Union requires the Union to respect cultural, religious,

862
01:00:31,840 --> 01:00:35,510
Speaker 8: and linguistic diversity, which must include the protection of the

863
01:00:35,550 --> 01:00:40,090
Speaker 8: historic cultures and traditions of Europe's nations against erosion through

864
01:00:40,150 --> 01:00:41,390
Speaker 8: demographic replacement.

865
01:00:41,770 --> 01:00:42,430
Speaker 1: Oh, there it is.

866
01:00:42,710 --> 01:00:46,690
Speaker 4: That's very clever. We want to respect the diversity of

867
01:00:46,750 --> 01:00:49,570
Speaker 4: our beautiful, all these different white cultures.

868
01:00:51,090 --> 01:00:51,490
Speaker 1: Exactly.

869
01:00:52,610 --> 01:00:53,210
Speaker 4: That's cute.

870
01:00:53,390 --> 01:00:56,130
Speaker 8: The first time that a fascist has used the word diversity,

871
01:00:56,250 --> 01:00:57,930
Speaker 8: not in a completely bad faith way.

872
01:00:57,950 --> 01:00:58,790
Speaker 6: Right.

873
01:00:59,470 --> 01:01:02,250
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's really cute of them. Just like there's so

874
01:01:02,270 --> 01:01:04,390
Speaker 4: much diversity of all the different whites.

875
01:01:05,390 --> 01:01:05,810
Speaker 1: Yeah, yes.

876
01:01:06,350 --> 01:01:07,890
Speaker 4: We have to protect our cultural heritage.

877
01:01:07,950 --> 01:01:09,200
Speaker 1: Nothing but premium whites.

878
01:01:09,220 --> 01:01:14,420
Speaker 8: So at point three, testing how replacement migration, both legal

879
01:01:14,500 --> 01:01:18,110
Speaker 8: and illegal, over recent decades has violated that right. by

880
01:01:18,130 --> 01:01:22,530
Speaker 8: causing significant damage to the social cohesion, public services, security,

881
01:01:23,130 --> 01:01:27,110
Speaker 8: and ethnic and cultural continuity of the European nations, leading

882
01:01:27,160 --> 01:01:31,480
Speaker 8: to parallel societies, increased crime, and the marginalization of native

883
01:01:31,520 --> 01:01:36,760
Speaker 8: populations in their ancestral homelands. Come on! Anytime you hear

884
01:01:36,800 --> 01:01:39,680
Speaker 8: a fucking European white person using the word native or

885
01:01:39,720 --> 01:01:42,870
Speaker 8: indigenous to describe themselves, just tell them to fuck off.

886
01:01:43,330 --> 01:01:45,050
Speaker 8: Just the most puerile shit.

887
01:01:45,150 --> 01:01:45,570
Speaker 1: Come on.

888
01:01:46,180 --> 01:01:50,290
Speaker 4: I've been reading a lot of 20th century eugenics writing lately,

889
01:01:50,410 --> 01:01:54,110
Speaker 4: early 1900s. And every time they say, you know, he

890
01:01:54,150 --> 01:01:56,910
Speaker 4: was a Native American, I'm like, he was what? They

891
01:01:56,950 --> 01:01:58,810
Speaker 4: mean he was a white person whose family came here

892
01:01:58,830 --> 01:02:01,330
Speaker 4: in the 1700s. He was a Native American. That's not

893
01:02:01,390 --> 01:02:02,670
Speaker 4: how we use that phrase now.

894
01:02:02,990 --> 01:02:05,970
Speaker 1: This is still a giant problem in local journalism in

895
01:02:06,010 --> 01:02:08,470
Speaker 1: the United States. I remember I was writing for Pointer,

896
01:02:08,510 --> 01:02:12,010
Speaker 1: which if people aren't familiar, Pointer is like an institute

897
01:02:12,030 --> 01:02:15,860
Speaker 1: of journalism, I think. It's like a journal about journalism. Meta.

898
01:02:16,270 --> 01:02:19,490
Speaker 1: And I remember two reporters, I was writing about how

899
01:02:19,530 --> 01:02:22,530
Speaker 1: people just can't stop saying that cops overdosed on fentanyl.

900
01:02:22,550 --> 01:02:25,110
Speaker 1: When they didn't, they had a panic attack. This is

901
01:02:25,130 --> 01:02:28,240
Speaker 1: a problem. And it's a problem that it's apparently insurmountable

902
01:02:28,620 --> 01:02:31,640
Speaker 1: for many local newspapers, including the San Diego Union Tribune.

903
01:02:32,060 --> 01:02:35,640
Speaker 1: Both reporters there called themselves San Diego natives. And like

904
01:02:36,280 --> 01:02:38,980
Speaker 1: the Native American Journalists Association style guide suggests that you

905
01:02:39,000 --> 01:02:42,270
Speaker 1: should generally put tribal affiliation afterwards. So I asked them

906
01:02:42,290 --> 01:02:46,439
Speaker 1: and they got very upset. But I genuinely, if you're

907
01:02:46,460 --> 01:02:48,700
Speaker 1: a person who makes a living with words and you're

908
01:02:49,060 --> 01:02:51,280
Speaker 1: just a white person who was born somewhere and you're

909
01:02:51,380 --> 01:02:55,810
Speaker 1: using native, you're showing that you're incapable of using words accurately.

910
01:02:55,910 --> 01:02:58,090
Speaker 1: I think that should be disqualifying in itself if you're

911
01:02:58,110 --> 01:02:58,510
Speaker 1: a journalist.

912
01:02:58,530 --> 01:02:59,530
Speaker 4: You're bad at your job.

913
01:02:59,630 --> 01:03:01,110
Speaker 1: Yeah, I find it really fucking annoying.

914
01:03:01,550 --> 01:03:03,410
Speaker 4: So it's interesting in that clause, right? So they're not

915
01:03:03,490 --> 01:03:06,890
Speaker 4: just upset about illegal immigration, right? They're not just upset

916
01:03:06,910 --> 01:03:10,300
Speaker 4: about refugees and asylum. They're saying legal and illegal. So

917
01:03:10,360 --> 01:03:13,290
Speaker 4: right from the jump, they're saying illegal. This is just

918
01:03:13,370 --> 01:03:15,450
Speaker 4: an ethnic thing. We just want everyone to be white.

919
01:03:15,730 --> 01:03:18,410
Speaker 4: There's not even pretending that's not about everyone being white.

920
01:03:18,630 --> 01:03:20,030
Speaker 1: It gets worse. Oh, good.

921
01:03:20,350 --> 01:03:20,530
Speaker 7: Good.

922
01:03:20,550 --> 01:03:21,950
Speaker 4: But it started very bad.

923
01:03:22,050 --> 01:03:23,390
Speaker 1: It started bad. Yeah.

924
01:03:24,170 --> 01:03:25,110
Speaker 4: They're not even pretending.

925
01:03:25,210 --> 01:03:25,550
Speaker 1: No, no.

926
01:03:25,570 --> 01:03:28,220
Speaker 8: You're starting like already knee deep in shit. And the

927
01:03:28,240 --> 01:03:30,860
Speaker 8: more you wade through like the sewer.

928
01:03:30,980 --> 01:03:33,240
Speaker 4: We started with the Nuremberg laws.

929
01:03:34,000 --> 01:03:34,320
Speaker 1: Yes.

930
01:03:34,840 --> 01:03:37,680
Speaker 4: It's kind of a heated first sentence.

931
01:03:38,120 --> 01:03:40,320
Speaker 1: That was like genuinely one of my first thoughts.

932
01:03:40,380 --> 01:03:40,560
Speaker 7: Like.

933
01:03:41,350 --> 01:03:45,470
Speaker 8: Should shit go incredibly bad in Europe with shit like this,

934
01:03:45,530 --> 01:03:47,770
Speaker 8: then this is something that will be brought up in

935
01:03:48,660 --> 01:03:49,450
Speaker 8: whatever the new.

936
01:03:49,680 --> 01:03:51,200
Speaker 1: In the tribunals. Yeah.

937
01:03:51,340 --> 01:03:51,740
Speaker 10: Oh, yeah.

938
01:03:52,090 --> 01:03:53,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, when they're writing the history book.

939
01:03:53,720 --> 01:03:54,720
Speaker 4: I have that thought often.

940
01:03:54,740 --> 01:03:54,820
Speaker 6: Yeah.

941
01:03:55,500 --> 01:03:57,500
Speaker 4: I have that thought in my fantasies often.

942
01:03:57,980 --> 01:04:01,340
Speaker 1: Molly has a tribunals folder on her computer, which is...

943
01:04:01,280 --> 01:04:02,820
Speaker 1: She's got a whole hard drive now.

944
01:04:03,520 --> 01:04:05,980
Speaker 4: Look, when they come, when they're ready, I have files.

945
01:04:06,480 --> 01:04:07,040
Speaker 4: Just come get me.

946
01:04:07,520 --> 01:04:10,260
Speaker 1: You've got the receipts. Okay. Point four.

947
01:04:10,890 --> 01:04:13,970
Speaker 8: Underlying the urgency of the matter by acknowledging the imminent

948
01:04:14,010 --> 01:04:17,490
Speaker 8: reality that the native peoples of Europe risk becoming minority

949
01:04:17,530 --> 01:04:21,950
Speaker 8: populations in their own homelands if radical changes to the

950
01:04:22,010 --> 01:04:24,440
Speaker 8: asylum and migration system are not made.

951
01:04:25,060 --> 01:04:29,960
Speaker 4: I'm sorry, like this level of just open bitching, like, oh,

952
01:04:30,020 --> 01:04:32,340
Speaker 4: I'm sorry, you believe in great replacement conspiracy theories. Like,

953
01:04:32,380 --> 01:04:34,040
Speaker 4: that's embarrassing for you. That's embarrassing.

954
01:04:34,570 --> 01:04:38,470
Speaker 1: Yeah, and this pathetic concern trolling, like, oh, we the

955
01:04:38,550 --> 01:04:43,090
Speaker 1: indigenous people are being colonized by people seeking fucking asylum.

956
01:04:43,650 --> 01:04:47,190
Speaker 4: Our beautiful, brave Teutonic ancestors are being replaced.

957
01:04:47,230 --> 01:04:47,690
Speaker 3: Grow up!

958
01:04:48,240 --> 01:04:51,030
Speaker 8: Like, I would accept it if they would just refer

959
01:04:51,070 --> 01:04:54,040
Speaker 8: it back to, like, the original Celts before, like, the

960
01:04:54,080 --> 01:04:56,380
Speaker 8: Christendom and the Romans came.

961
01:04:56,880 --> 01:05:00,310
Speaker 1: Like, yeah, sure, yeah, yeah. It's the people from Italy

962
01:05:00,330 --> 01:05:01,730
Speaker 1: that they're really mad about.

963
01:05:01,970 --> 01:05:07,360
Speaker 8: We need to fucking, like, praise Tutatis and Katurix again from, like,

964
01:05:07,380 --> 01:05:08,959
Speaker 8: the old Gallic days.

965
01:05:09,200 --> 01:05:10,600
Speaker 1: You know, I would respect that.

966
01:05:11,100 --> 01:05:13,860
Speaker 4: These probably are the same, like, fucking German neo-Nazis who

967
01:05:13,880 --> 01:05:15,820
Speaker 4: still celebrate, like, Arminius Day.

968
01:05:16,200 --> 01:05:18,470
Speaker 1: These are the same people who would also have, like,

969
01:05:18,780 --> 01:05:21,870
Speaker 1: done Africa Starts at the Pyrenees stuff not so long

970
01:05:21,910 --> 01:05:26,410
Speaker 1: ago and, like, absolutely excluded anyone from Iberia from being, like,

971
01:05:26,490 --> 01:05:29,610
Speaker 1: European or white, like, So, you know, maybe that's the

972
01:05:29,630 --> 01:05:30,810
Speaker 1: diversity they're talking about, maybe.

973
01:05:31,410 --> 01:05:35,890
Speaker 4: I do love that inter-white racism. Like, the really niche stuff, like,

974
01:05:35,950 --> 01:05:37,630
Speaker 4: are Macedonians white?

975
01:05:38,310 --> 01:05:42,850
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, being someone who was a historian of Iberia

976
01:05:42,870 --> 01:05:47,400
Speaker 1: for much of my 20s, it's wild. It's wild shit

977
01:05:47,420 --> 01:05:50,420
Speaker 1: that you will see in, like, old-timey texts and from

978
01:05:50,480 --> 01:05:52,020
Speaker 1: old-timey people at history conferences.

979
01:05:52,660 --> 01:05:54,620
Speaker 4: Oh, I'm talking about stuff I've seen on Stonefront.

980
01:05:55,080 --> 01:05:58,970
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, that's also... Could be the same people. Probably.

981
01:05:58,990 --> 01:06:03,270
Speaker 8: They'll probably be in contact through a telegram group.

982
01:06:04,550 --> 01:06:09,030
Speaker 1: Sorry, we keep interrupting the document. Yeah, we've ruined it.

983
01:06:09,200 --> 01:06:09,720
Speaker 1: That's fine.

984
01:06:11,220 --> 01:06:14,540
Speaker 8: Point five, determining that migration does not solve the aging

985
01:06:14,580 --> 01:06:18,960
Speaker 8: population crisis, but instead places further strain on European welfare

986
01:06:19,020 --> 01:06:22,820
Speaker 8: systems and worsens the fundamental problem of low birth rates

987
01:06:22,970 --> 01:06:24,450
Speaker 8: among the native population.

988
01:06:25,390 --> 01:06:27,270
Speaker 4: I was hoping we would get to birth rates.

989
01:06:27,610 --> 01:06:27,910
Speaker 5: Good, good.

990
01:06:27,990 --> 01:06:29,650
Speaker 4: I'm surprised it took all the way to number five.

991
01:06:31,530 --> 01:06:34,070
Speaker 4: I mean, are you even a proper racist if you're

992
01:06:34,110 --> 01:06:36,750
Speaker 4: not concerned about the fecundity of ethnic women?

993
01:06:37,830 --> 01:06:38,390
Speaker 1: Probably.

994
01:06:38,410 --> 01:06:43,360
Speaker 4: They're very worried about being outbred.

995
01:06:43,660 --> 01:06:46,440
Speaker 8: Yes, but for some reason, all the women promoting this

996
01:06:46,540 --> 01:06:50,080
Speaker 8: are not having like 20 children within like their first

997
01:06:50,160 --> 01:06:53,720
Speaker 8: five years. So funny how they make exceptions for themselves

998
01:06:53,800 --> 01:06:56,300
Speaker 8: all the time. One thing of note that I found

999
01:06:56,340 --> 01:06:59,040
Speaker 8: is it points to about like the cultural, religious and

1000
01:06:59,080 --> 01:07:04,520
Speaker 8: linguistic diversity, which, as I said before, fascists using diversity,

1001
01:07:04,660 --> 01:07:07,840
Speaker 8: not entirely in bad faith, but also using it in

1002
01:07:07,860 --> 01:07:08,400
Speaker 8: bad faith.

1003
01:07:08,660 --> 01:07:09,080
Speaker 1: Right.

1004
01:07:09,180 --> 01:07:12,620
Speaker 4: You know, all the different romance languages, but God forbid

1005
01:07:12,640 --> 01:07:14,120
Speaker 4: we have too much diversity.

1006
01:07:14,620 --> 01:07:15,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.

1007
01:07:16,040 --> 01:07:19,570
Speaker 8: But like that argument is so fucking stupid on its

1008
01:07:19,660 --> 01:07:22,960
Speaker 8: face because like, first of all, is your faith in

1009
01:07:23,000 --> 01:07:26,040
Speaker 8: your own culture and language so incredibly weak that like

1010
01:07:26,140 --> 01:07:28,360
Speaker 8: the presence of any other is a threat?

1011
01:07:29,470 --> 01:07:32,510
Speaker 4: I mean, they do keep a pretty strict hold on French.

1012
01:07:34,230 --> 01:07:35,930
Speaker 4: They're very worried about it. Yeah, yeah.

1013
01:07:36,010 --> 01:07:38,870
Speaker 1: The state is leaning on the scale in France. But

1014
01:07:38,890 --> 01:07:42,110
Speaker 1: like the idea that the wonderful diversity of Romance languages

1015
01:07:42,130 --> 01:07:44,070
Speaker 1: is great and should be celebrated and protected. But like,

1016
01:07:44,430 --> 01:07:46,280
Speaker 1: where the fuck do you think like all the words

1017
01:07:46,300 --> 01:07:49,840
Speaker 1: that begin with AL in Spanish come from? It's not France. No.

1018
01:07:50,500 --> 01:07:54,850
Speaker 8: Like, Or any word with SK in English is originally

1019
01:07:54,870 --> 01:07:57,810
Speaker 8: some Scandinavian origins there.

1020
01:07:58,310 --> 01:08:01,110
Speaker 4: Like this isn't the first time anyone came to Europe.

1021
01:08:01,150 --> 01:08:01,850
Speaker 4: This isn't new.

1022
01:08:02,190 --> 01:08:02,530
Speaker 7: Yeah.

1023
01:08:02,710 --> 01:08:02,910
Speaker 10: Yeah.

1024
01:08:02,930 --> 01:08:04,860
Speaker 1: People have been doing this for a minute. It's like

1025
01:08:05,620 --> 01:08:07,840
Speaker 1: if you are really good at like, probably not if

1026
01:08:07,860 --> 01:08:10,320
Speaker 1: you're really good at throwing, but you can definitely swim

1027
01:08:10,380 --> 01:08:14,140
Speaker 1: to North Africa from the European Union pretty easily. Well, yeah. Well,

1028
01:08:14,160 --> 01:08:16,800
Speaker 1: not easily. It'd be a pretty rough trip.

1029
01:08:16,900 --> 01:08:20,689
Speaker 8: Between Spain and Morocco, I think it's the most doable.

1030
01:08:20,979 --> 01:08:23,990
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. I'm sure a human could do it. People

1031
01:08:24,010 --> 01:08:28,250
Speaker 1: swim to France. No one knows why. To avoid Spain?

1032
01:08:28,490 --> 01:08:30,269
Speaker 1: I think if they're going from the United Kingdom, so

1033
01:08:30,330 --> 01:08:34,760
Speaker 1: it would be... People do this as a physical insurance challenge. Okay.

1034
01:08:35,380 --> 01:08:36,800
Speaker 4: I thought they stopped letting people do it.

1035
01:08:37,470 --> 01:08:40,510
Speaker 1: Quite possibly. I've not been following. I just remember when

1036
01:08:40,550 --> 01:08:41,790
Speaker 1: I was a kid, it would be a thing.

1037
01:08:41,910 --> 01:08:42,550
Speaker 4: Oh, yeah.

1038
01:08:42,590 --> 01:08:45,750
Speaker 1: They would like grease themselves and then swim the channel.

1039
01:08:45,790 --> 01:08:45,910
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1040
01:08:45,990 --> 01:08:46,189
Speaker 1: Okay.

1041
01:08:46,210 --> 01:08:50,010
Speaker 8: Well, I do respect the English fleeing away from England

1042
01:08:50,050 --> 01:08:53,150
Speaker 8: to France where there's at least a proper cuisine present.

1043
01:08:54,250 --> 01:08:57,510
Speaker 1: Damn. I'm sorry, James. I'm sorry.

1044
01:08:57,530 --> 01:08:58,470
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.

1045
01:08:59,720 --> 01:09:02,160
Speaker 4: So have they gotten this ballot initiative or whatever you

1046
01:09:02,180 --> 01:09:03,979
Speaker 4: guys call it in Europe? Have they gotten this to

1047
01:09:04,020 --> 01:09:06,460
Speaker 4: be considered? Like, did they get enough support to force

1048
01:09:06,479 --> 01:09:07,900
Speaker 4: someone to consider this seriously?

1049
01:09:09,270 --> 01:09:13,370
Speaker 1: Yes and no. But we'll get there. But I love

1050
01:09:13,470 --> 01:09:15,150
Speaker 1: that you're thinking ahead with me.

1051
01:09:15,170 --> 01:09:17,750
Speaker 4: I just don't know how the government works over there,

1052
01:09:17,950 --> 01:09:18,790
Speaker 4: to be so honest.

1053
01:09:19,110 --> 01:09:19,850
Speaker 1: We don't either.

1054
01:09:20,620 --> 01:09:21,479
Speaker 4: Barely know how our.

1055
01:09:21,400 --> 01:09:24,620
Speaker 1: Government works oh barely i think is the correct answer

1056
01:09:24,640 --> 01:09:25,200
Speaker 1: to that.

1057
01:09:25,560 --> 01:09:29,460
Speaker 11: Yeah yeah yeah it doesn't if but i also still

1058
01:09:29,479 --> 01:09:32,340
Speaker 11: wanted to point out like with with the back to

1059
01:09:32,380 --> 01:09:35,900
Speaker 11: the initiative like what about migrants who speak air quotes

1060
01:09:36,120 --> 01:09:40,400
Speaker 11: our languages or practice our quotes our religions large parts

1061
01:09:40,439 --> 01:09:43,599
Speaker 11: of africa speak english or french or even portuguese it's

1062
01:09:43,720 --> 01:09:46,050
Speaker 11: some areas yeah Well, a lot of.

1063
01:09:46,030 --> 01:09:50,229
Speaker 4: Those people of African descent in those countries are from

1064
01:09:50,350 --> 01:09:54,070
Speaker 4: countries that were colonized by the people who don't want

1065
01:09:54,110 --> 01:09:54,429
Speaker 4: them there.

1066
01:09:54,630 --> 01:09:54,910
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1067
01:09:55,270 --> 01:09:56,410
Speaker 4: We're like, why do you think there are so many

1068
01:09:56,490 --> 01:09:59,430
Speaker 4: African people in France? And well, they all speak French,

1069
01:09:59,470 --> 01:10:02,530
Speaker 4: don't they? How'd they get there? Consider your actions.

1070
01:10:03,450 --> 01:10:06,150
Speaker 8: But that's exactly the point. Like if they're in Africa

1071
01:10:06,189 --> 01:10:08,410
Speaker 8: and they already speak the language, do they make the cut?

1072
01:10:08,830 --> 01:10:11,790
Speaker 4: Well, no, it sounds like under this initiative, no. So

1073
01:10:11,810 --> 01:10:14,440
Speaker 4: much of what they're putting forward is bad faith, right?

1074
01:10:14,450 --> 01:10:17,560
Speaker 4: They're like, oh, you know, it's about our cultural heritage,

1075
01:10:18,580 --> 01:10:21,300
Speaker 4: our linguistic heritage. It's like, okay, well, what about people

1076
01:10:21,340 --> 01:10:23,420
Speaker 4: who grew up in a French colony in Africa? Are

1077
01:10:23,460 --> 01:10:25,640
Speaker 4: they not French? No, they're not white.

1078
01:10:25,800 --> 01:10:28,719
Speaker 8: No, but that is exactly where it's leading.

1079
01:10:29,100 --> 01:10:31,460
Speaker 1: And that's why, okay, they speak your language. They can

1080
01:10:31,500 --> 01:10:33,120
Speaker 1: have your religion. Is this enough?

1081
01:10:33,220 --> 01:10:35,200
Speaker 4: Which is why this just sounds like the Nuremberg loss

1082
01:10:35,240 --> 01:10:35,439
Speaker 4: to me.

1083
01:10:36,780 --> 01:10:39,769
Speaker 8: Like, honestly, we shouldn't even engage with these arguments because

1084
01:10:39,950 --> 01:10:43,490
Speaker 8: it just reduces any form of nuance or complexity to

1085
01:10:43,510 --> 01:10:44,650
Speaker 8: the barest fucking minimum.

1086
01:10:45,729 --> 01:10:48,750
Speaker 4: They wrote racism by committee. They made a very fancy

1087
01:10:48,770 --> 01:10:50,950
Speaker 4: document to say we're very racist.

1088
01:10:51,210 --> 01:10:51,350
Speaker 7: Oh.

1089
01:10:52,270 --> 01:10:55,650
Speaker 8: Like, I checked the comments on the Save Europe website

1090
01:10:55,689 --> 01:10:58,840
Speaker 8: when I was working on this and would not recommend.

1091
01:10:58,860 --> 01:11:00,160
Speaker 1: Oh, I bet.

1092
01:11:00,220 --> 01:11:00,480
Speaker 7: Yeah.

1093
01:11:01,240 --> 01:11:05,340
Speaker 1: Not great. But it's essentially just this bit. And we're

1094
01:11:05,380 --> 01:11:05,860
Speaker 1: going through it.

1095
01:11:06,300 --> 01:11:09,680
Speaker 8: Like point three again, their demands, it's just grafting the

1096
01:11:09,720 --> 01:11:15,200
Speaker 8: great replacement theory, trying to get it considered under European law.

1097
01:11:15,720 --> 01:11:18,060
Speaker 8: And if you consider how large Europe is and how

1098
01:11:19,080 --> 01:11:23,160
Speaker 8: few people they would need to get this to be

1099
01:11:23,220 --> 01:11:27,700
Speaker 8: considered is absolutely baffling. But we'll get there because I'm

1100
01:11:27,840 --> 01:11:30,100
Speaker 8: trying to keep some sort of structure here.

1101
01:11:30,600 --> 01:11:31,900
Speaker 4: Sorry, that's on me.

1102
01:11:32,100 --> 01:11:34,240
Speaker 1: Now, I love how engaged you are, Molly.

1103
01:11:34,280 --> 01:11:39,720
Speaker 8: So don't apologize. continue and also the whole notion of

1104
01:11:39,939 --> 01:11:43,939
Speaker 8: demographic replacement in in countries that barely exist for 200

1105
01:11:43,939 --> 01:11:47,860
Speaker 8: years can you call this like your ancestral homeland.

1106
01:11:47,660 --> 01:11:49,240
Speaker 4: There was no italy 200 years ago there was no

1107
01:11:49,340 --> 01:11:54,410
Speaker 4: germany 200 years ago like what grand historical narrative are

1108
01:11:54,430 --> 01:11:57,790
Speaker 4: you pretending exists here yeah like if you're following that

1109
01:11:57,830 --> 01:12:00,470
Speaker 4: lead then you must join my side with like we

1110
01:12:00,490 --> 01:12:03,310
Speaker 4: need to be gaelic again and just return to like

1111
01:12:03,330 --> 01:12:07,020
Speaker 4: our celtic forefathers before the romans dared to show up.

1112
01:12:07,840 --> 01:12:10,760
Speaker 8: And then at least there would be some historical accuracy

1113
01:12:10,800 --> 01:12:14,099
Speaker 8: to what they're claiming. But I dislike these people.

1114
01:12:14,120 --> 01:12:16,040
Speaker 4: I think they're full of shit.

1115
01:12:16,439 --> 01:12:19,879
Speaker 8: They very much are. So part three of the charter

1116
01:12:19,979 --> 01:12:22,550
Speaker 8: is about the demands that these people have of Europe

1117
01:12:22,660 --> 01:12:25,020
Speaker 8: and items they wish to see turned into law and policy.

1118
01:12:25,439 --> 01:12:28,730
Speaker 8: We therefore demand that the European Commission exercise its right

1119
01:12:28,750 --> 01:12:32,430
Speaker 8: of initiative under the treaties to propose and advance the

1120
01:12:32,490 --> 01:12:37,430
Speaker 8: following legislative and policy measures without delay. Article 1.

1121
01:12:37,430 --> 01:12:42,570
Speaker 1: Declare a formal moratorium on the new non-Western slash non-European

1122
01:12:42,640 --> 01:12:48,080
Speaker 1: immigration channels, including the suspension of asylum processes for economic

1123
01:12:48,120 --> 01:12:51,979
Speaker 1: migrants and applicants from safe countries of origin, the halting

1124
01:12:52,020 --> 01:12:56,620
Speaker 1: of new study and family reunification visas for non-Europeans, and

1125
01:12:56,660 --> 01:13:01,020
Speaker 1: the strict limitation of legal migration channels until social cohesion

1126
01:13:01,080 --> 01:13:04,760
Speaker 1: and cultural continuity in the member states are restored. That's

1127
01:13:04,820 --> 01:13:05,500
Speaker 1: fucking mental.

1128
01:13:05,860 --> 01:13:08,750
Speaker 4: We've done this before. We've done racist immigration quotas before.

1129
01:13:08,850 --> 01:13:08,950
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1130
01:13:09,850 --> 01:13:12,970
Speaker 1: And just like good luck at your universities taking those

1131
01:13:13,010 --> 01:13:15,690
Speaker 1: students from outside Europe. Let's see how that goes for you.

1132
01:13:16,250 --> 01:13:17,800
Speaker 1: Why do you think they're printing money?

1133
01:13:18,560 --> 01:13:20,360
Speaker 4: Oh, that's a problem in Europe, too.

1134
01:13:20,420 --> 01:13:20,600
Speaker 6: I know.

1135
01:13:20,620 --> 01:13:24,019
Speaker 4: So in American universities, like they're highly reliant on the

1136
01:13:24,060 --> 01:13:25,700
Speaker 4: tuition dollars of international students.

1137
01:13:25,720 --> 01:13:26,559
Speaker 1: Is that the case.

1138
01:13:26,439 --> 01:13:26,980
Speaker 4: In Europe as well?

1139
01:13:27,860 --> 01:13:30,940
Speaker 1: Not to the American extent, but... Yeah, not to the

1140
01:13:31,010 --> 01:13:34,030
Speaker 1: same extent. But work at universities in Europe long enough

1141
01:13:34,050 --> 01:13:36,429
Speaker 1: and you'll be like, I see some of these folks.

1142
01:13:37,570 --> 01:13:41,490
Speaker 8: European universities have largely also received budget cuts. So I

1143
01:13:42,270 --> 01:13:45,350
Speaker 8: wouldn't be surprised if this is also happening in Europe,

1144
01:13:45,370 --> 01:13:46,969
Speaker 8: but then to a lesser extent.

1145
01:13:47,479 --> 01:13:52,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the move towards the American model of education. Yeah. Sadly,

1146
01:13:52,340 --> 01:13:54,660
Speaker 1: sadly upon all of us. Yeah, we're just four or

1147
01:13:54,689 --> 01:13:58,970
Speaker 1: five years behind on America. In cultural waves. Well, I

1148
01:13:58,990 --> 01:14:01,769
Speaker 1: don't know. You're leading the charge here with this. Yeah,

1149
01:14:01,790 --> 01:14:05,150
Speaker 1: like even that haunted mannequin you have in the White House.

1150
01:14:06,050 --> 01:14:08,710
Speaker 1: The bald one. The bald one. I forgot his name.

1151
01:14:09,130 --> 01:14:09,750
Speaker 4: Stephen Miller?

1152
01:14:10,090 --> 01:14:10,910
Speaker 1: Yes, that one.

1153
01:14:12,450 --> 01:14:13,970
Speaker 4: Bald haunted doll. That's got to be him.

1154
01:14:14,729 --> 01:14:16,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, you narrowed it right down.

1155
01:14:17,200 --> 01:14:20,160
Speaker 8: Yeah, but as far as I know, even Stephen Miller

1156
01:14:20,200 --> 01:14:25,570
Speaker 8: hasn't put anything this explicitly great replacement into law. But

1157
01:14:25,610 --> 01:14:27,110
Speaker 8: I'm no expert on America.

1158
01:14:27,130 --> 01:14:31,710
Speaker 1: Yeah, Miller will certainly say stuff that's very great replacement-y, right?

1159
01:14:31,729 --> 01:14:35,309
Speaker 1: Like on his ex-account. But yeah, attempting to get this.

1160
01:14:35,380 --> 01:14:38,080
Speaker 4: But in terms of legislative proposals, I mean, this is

1161
01:14:38,120 --> 01:14:40,700
Speaker 4: giving 1920s immigration law, right?

1162
01:14:41,380 --> 01:14:42,200
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1163
01:14:42,220 --> 01:14:44,540
Speaker 4: The sort of quotas that we set to keep essentially

1164
01:14:44,580 --> 01:14:46,270
Speaker 4: Jews out of the United States in the 20s and 30s.

1165
01:14:47,340 --> 01:14:50,979
Speaker 1: Yeah, the Chinese Exclusion Act, which was like how our

1166
01:14:51,020 --> 01:14:53,780
Speaker 1: immigration policy began in the United States. Not great.

1167
01:14:54,860 --> 01:14:58,080
Speaker 4: So, yeah, we have done this before. It was during

1168
01:14:58,100 --> 01:15:00,620
Speaker 4: the nadir of American race relations.

1169
01:15:01,420 --> 01:15:04,320
Speaker 8: Yeah, Germany wants to chime in as well as of recent.

1170
01:15:04,400 --> 01:15:07,060
Speaker 8: So going on a great path, guys.

1171
01:15:07,600 --> 01:15:09,890
Speaker 4: Yeah, things are going pretty good there, right?

1172
01:15:09,900 --> 01:15:10,589
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1173
01:15:10,900 --> 01:15:11,730
Speaker 4: Politically right now.

1174
01:15:12,250 --> 01:15:15,650
Speaker 1: Yes. No, no, it's absolutely great. So we have four

1175
01:15:15,670 --> 01:15:17,210
Speaker 1: more articles. Sorry.

1176
01:15:17,540 --> 01:15:22,040
Speaker 8: Article two, I'm sorry, establish a fundamental reform of the

1177
01:15:22,120 --> 01:15:25,380
Speaker 8: existing EU migration and asylum systems during the time of

1178
01:15:25,420 --> 01:15:29,920
Speaker 8: this moratorium, including a total reform of the current migration framework,

1179
01:15:30,380 --> 01:15:34,979
Speaker 8: focusing on external border protection, physical and technological barriers at

1180
01:15:35,010 --> 01:15:39,110
Speaker 8: the frontiers, rapid screening and immediate return mechanisms.

1181
01:15:39,189 --> 01:15:41,269
Speaker 4: Are they going to build a wall around Europe?

1182
01:15:42,930 --> 01:15:46,550
Speaker 1: Europe already kills more people with its border than we do. Like,

1183
01:15:46,750 --> 01:15:51,710
Speaker 1: Europe's physical border protection is the most murderous on the planet.

1184
01:15:52,050 --> 01:15:52,310
Speaker 5: Oh, yeah.

1185
01:15:52,470 --> 01:15:55,100
Speaker 1: They're not even very knowledgeable about the shit that they're

1186
01:15:55,140 --> 01:15:55,900
Speaker 1: racist about.

1187
01:15:56,240 --> 01:15:59,580
Speaker 8: It's probably worse than you think, because what they mean with, like,

1188
01:15:59,620 --> 01:16:03,780
Speaker 8: the external border protection is also us. I think, James,

1189
01:16:04,060 --> 01:16:06,490
Speaker 8: we talked a little bit about this, about when Trump

1190
01:16:06,550 --> 01:16:08,089
Speaker 8: wanted to send migrants to Libya.

1191
01:16:08,729 --> 01:16:09,570
Speaker 1: But there are just.

1192
01:16:09,990 --> 01:16:14,040
Speaker 8: sort of European control zones within Africa. Like, a few

1193
01:16:14,080 --> 01:16:17,860
Speaker 8: weeks ago, there was the migrants storming the gates in Spain,

1194
01:16:18,140 --> 01:16:20,479
Speaker 8: and that was in Ceuta.

1195
01:16:20,820 --> 01:16:21,809
Speaker 1: Ceuta. Thank you.

1196
01:16:22,400 --> 01:16:25,250
Speaker 8: But that's the Spanish territory of Morocco.

1197
01:16:25,729 --> 01:16:29,570
Speaker 1: What these people want is more Alan Curtis, right? Like,

1198
01:16:29,650 --> 01:16:33,350
Speaker 1: more little dead children. Yeah. We just passed the 11th

1199
01:16:33,410 --> 01:16:37,099
Speaker 1: anniversary of his death, right? It was in September 2015. But, like,

1200
01:16:38,990 --> 01:16:41,189
Speaker 1: Either we've got far away from that, that you can

1201
01:16:41,270 --> 01:16:45,330
Speaker 1: con people into talking about hard borders again and not

1202
01:16:45,370 --> 01:16:50,189
Speaker 1: understanding that hard borders means dead children, or people remember

1203
01:16:50,210 --> 01:16:51,790
Speaker 1: that and they think that that was a good thing,

1204
01:16:51,830 --> 01:16:54,870
Speaker 1: that they'll stop people coming if we just kill a

1205
01:16:54,910 --> 01:16:58,090
Speaker 1: few more little innocent kids like this. Because that's what

1206
01:16:58,170 --> 01:17:01,850
Speaker 1: Europe's physical borders do, is that they drown children. Oh yeah,

1207
01:17:01,910 --> 01:17:05,979
Speaker 1: Fortress Europe, the mortar is exclusively dead children.

1208
01:17:06,560 --> 01:17:09,440
Speaker 8: Because also, I think it was in Hungary, from the

1209
01:17:09,479 --> 01:17:11,590
Speaker 8: top of my head, where they had just like these

1210
01:17:11,830 --> 01:17:16,290
Speaker 8: chain-linked fences with razor wire. And there was also the

1211
01:17:16,330 --> 01:17:19,849
Speaker 8: lighthouse reports where they had people in literal dog kennels

1212
01:17:19,930 --> 01:17:20,910
Speaker 8: or some shit.

1213
01:17:21,689 --> 01:17:23,030
Speaker 1: Yeah. Okay.

1214
01:17:23,070 --> 01:17:25,130
Speaker 8: Let's rush a bit through this bit so we can

1215
01:17:25,170 --> 01:17:25,990
Speaker 8: go to the funny bits.

1216
01:17:26,330 --> 01:17:29,229
Speaker 4: Yeah. So I just looked this up and I spoiled

1217
01:17:29,270 --> 01:17:30,970
Speaker 4: it for myself. And now I know who wrote this.

1218
01:17:31,110 --> 01:17:31,330
Speaker 7: Okay.

1219
01:17:31,350 --> 01:17:37,620
Speaker 1: Come on. Don't worry, guys, you'll get a live react

1220
01:17:37,660 --> 01:17:40,420
Speaker 1: from me, listeners. Oh, I think there's stuff in here

1221
01:17:40,439 --> 01:17:42,420
Speaker 1: that Molly does not yet know, so.

1222
01:17:42,439 --> 01:17:44,350
Speaker 4: Oh, no, I just got one little peek and I

1223
01:17:44,350 --> 01:17:45,970
Speaker 4: was like, I can't spoil it for myself anymore.

1224
01:17:46,290 --> 01:17:47,010
Speaker 1: Okay, great.

1225
01:17:47,570 --> 01:17:51,250
Speaker 8: Then Article 3 of the Act ensured a systematic and

1226
01:17:51,290 --> 01:17:57,599
Speaker 8: accelerated return, re-migration in quotes, of illegally staying migrants, reject

1227
01:17:57,660 --> 01:18:01,280
Speaker 8: asylum seekers, and persons who have committed criminal offenses or

1228
01:18:01,380 --> 01:18:05,040
Speaker 8: pose a threat to public order. with full mutual recognition

1229
01:18:05,120 --> 01:18:09,120
Speaker 8: of return decisions across the union and enhanced cooperation with

1230
01:18:09,180 --> 01:18:10,820
Speaker 8: third countries for readmission.

1231
01:18:11,600 --> 01:18:14,610
Speaker 1: Wow. Really at the Trump playbook on the last one.

1232
01:18:15,390 --> 01:18:17,990
Speaker 8: I made some comments for myself here and it's mostly like,

1233
01:18:18,410 --> 01:18:20,389
Speaker 8: how do you define this? How do you quote this?

1234
01:18:20,470 --> 01:18:24,720
Speaker 8: How do you force third countries to cooperate? It's like,

1235
01:18:25,729 --> 01:18:26,960
Speaker 8: you can't like.

1236
01:18:27,080 --> 01:18:29,600
Speaker 1: Yeah well this is a trump fantasy right like we'll

1237
01:18:29,700 --> 01:18:32,000
Speaker 1: use our economic power to lean on you to do

1238
01:18:32,060 --> 01:18:35,120
Speaker 1: our crimes against humanity for us it's the sort of

1239
01:18:35,320 --> 01:18:40,650
Speaker 1: might makes right approach to uh international relations our leaning

1240
01:18:40,740 --> 01:18:43,450
Speaker 1: on other countries hasn't gone so well right like it

1241
01:18:43,470 --> 01:18:45,430
Speaker 1: ain't gonna go better for the eu.

1242
01:18:45,670 --> 01:18:48,410
Speaker 8: No because most of the countries that we send them

1243
01:18:48,450 --> 01:18:51,220
Speaker 8: to don't want to engage in this process or don't

1244
01:18:51,260 --> 01:18:54,380
Speaker 8: want them back. So how are you going to force

1245
01:18:54,460 --> 01:18:57,100
Speaker 8: it unless we want to build some island in the

1246
01:18:57,150 --> 01:19:00,110
Speaker 8: middle of the Mediterranean to put all the stateless people?

1247
01:19:00,130 --> 01:19:01,669
Speaker 1: Don't give them any ideas.

1248
01:19:02,030 --> 01:19:04,450
Speaker 4: Making a bunch of people stateless is not a really

1249
01:19:04,490 --> 01:19:04,990
Speaker 4: bad sign.

1250
01:19:06,360 --> 01:19:08,840
Speaker 1: No, that's a sign of a healthy system.

1251
01:19:09,479 --> 01:19:10,660
Speaker 4: Let's proceed.

1252
01:19:11,100 --> 01:19:11,440
Speaker 1: Tragedy?

1253
01:19:11,460 --> 01:19:11,840
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1254
01:19:12,460 --> 01:19:12,780
Speaker 1: Never.

1255
01:19:13,380 --> 01:19:18,190
Speaker 8: Never in the history. Establish a harmonized EU-wide framework for

1256
01:19:18,270 --> 01:19:24,510
Speaker 8: broader remigration, including voluntary and incentivized remigration measures for non-European

1257
01:19:24,550 --> 01:19:29,310
Speaker 8: migrants who are unintegrated or constitute a serious cultural or

1258
01:19:29,390 --> 01:19:31,030
Speaker 8: financial burden to member states.

1259
01:19:31,689 --> 01:19:32,570
Speaker 4: Unintegrated.

1260
01:19:33,229 --> 01:19:34,610
Speaker 1: Cultural burden.

1261
01:19:34,850 --> 01:19:36,970
Speaker 4: They just don't look like I think they should look.

1262
01:19:37,530 --> 01:19:41,070
Speaker 1: Yeah. To support the restoration of demographic balance.

1263
01:19:41,910 --> 01:19:44,959
Speaker 4: This is obviously someone who's just really worried about Western culture.

1264
01:19:45,400 --> 01:19:48,380
Speaker 4: Definitely not someone who's been a well-known neo-Nazi for more

1265
01:19:48,400 --> 01:19:49,080
Speaker 4: than a decade.

1266
01:19:49,439 --> 01:19:54,420
Speaker 8: Ah, now I know which name you read. That person

1267
01:19:54,460 --> 01:19:56,700
Speaker 8: is an identitarian, Molly. Learn the difference.

1268
01:19:57,310 --> 01:20:01,070
Speaker 4: Yeah, his involvement with the Aryan Jugend in Austria, there's

1269
01:20:01,250 --> 01:20:02,150
Speaker 4: nothing to do with this.

1270
01:20:03,290 --> 01:20:06,210
Speaker 8: Molly, are you really saying that Nazis come from Austria?

1271
01:20:06,470 --> 01:20:07,430
Speaker 1: Please, read a history book.

1272
01:20:07,450 --> 01:20:08,469
Speaker 4: Name me one example.

1273
01:20:09,290 --> 01:20:14,410
Speaker 1: Exactly. Nothing bad politically ever came out of Austria. Maybe

1274
01:20:14,450 --> 01:20:16,870
Speaker 1: we should replace them all. Maybe they're onto something here.

1275
01:20:17,090 --> 01:20:19,110
Speaker 4: Maybe the replacement is going to be great.

1276
01:20:21,070 --> 01:20:26,910
Speaker 8: If we replace them with literally anything. And the last one, because...

1277
01:20:27,479 --> 01:20:32,160
Speaker 8: Jesus fucking Christ. Remove social welfare incentives and benefits that

1278
01:20:32,220 --> 01:20:36,639
Speaker 8: function as pool factors for migration, including restrictions in accordance

1279
01:20:36,700 --> 01:20:41,150
Speaker 8: with union law on access by non-citizens and recent migrants

1280
01:20:41,390 --> 01:20:44,970
Speaker 8: to selected welfare benefits and support systems, so as to

1281
01:20:45,010 --> 01:20:49,910
Speaker 8: reduce incentives for further migration, lessen the burden on European taxpayers,

1282
01:20:50,350 --> 01:20:51,770
Speaker 8: and encourage re-migration.

1283
01:20:52,340 --> 01:20:55,190
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, people are just coming there for the welfare

1284
01:20:55,229 --> 01:20:58,590
Speaker 4: because it's like really good. They're risking drowning in the

1285
01:20:58,689 --> 01:21:00,950
Speaker 4: sea because they really want to participate in the social

1286
01:21:01,330 --> 01:21:03,560
Speaker 4: welfare system. And it's not because they're fleeing other forms

1287
01:21:03,600 --> 01:21:04,180
Speaker 4: of violence.

1288
01:21:04,780 --> 01:21:08,260
Speaker 1: No, no, they're paying money to the smugglers so they

1289
01:21:08,280 --> 01:21:10,439
Speaker 1: can get to our welfare. Yeah, so they can be

1290
01:21:10,479 --> 01:21:13,360
Speaker 1: on the dole because it's such a fucking great life.

1291
01:21:13,900 --> 01:21:16,059
Speaker 4: And I'm sure there's no ulterior motive here where these

1292
01:21:16,100 --> 01:21:18,160
Speaker 4: people actually want to cut welfare for everyone because they

1293
01:21:18,200 --> 01:21:19,340
Speaker 4: also probably just hate poor people.

1294
01:21:19,640 --> 01:21:23,830
Speaker 1: Oh, definitely. Definitely. There is some very rich people involved

1295
01:21:23,910 --> 01:21:24,729
Speaker 1: in this as well.

1296
01:21:25,210 --> 01:21:25,769
Speaker 4: You don't say.

1297
01:21:25,790 --> 01:21:25,870
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1298
01:21:27,470 --> 01:21:31,009
Speaker 1: I do say. Shocking. It's an American plot twist.

1299
01:21:31,750 --> 01:21:34,670
Speaker 8: So I think this is a good point to do

1300
01:21:34,710 --> 01:21:38,000
Speaker 8: a very good impromptu ad break. Because this took a

1301
01:21:38,020 --> 01:21:39,389
Speaker 8: bit longer than expected.

1302
01:21:39,740 --> 01:21:41,290
Speaker 4: That's my fault.

1303
01:21:41,330 --> 01:21:43,330
Speaker 1: This is what you get with me and Molly. This

1304
01:21:43,390 --> 01:21:44,370
Speaker 1: is fucking chaos.

1305
01:21:44,410 --> 01:21:46,870
Speaker 8: This is honestly why I do it. But I think

1306
01:21:46,890 --> 01:21:48,070
Speaker 8: we all need a palate cleanser.

1307
01:21:48,090 --> 01:21:49,970
Speaker 4: Yeah, enjoy these ads.

1308
01:21:50,930 --> 01:21:54,620
Speaker 1: Probably not as horrible as the Save Europe Act. Oh,

1309
01:21:54,630 --> 01:21:56,770
Speaker 1: you don't know some rich people. People don't get rich

1310
01:21:56,790 --> 01:21:59,349
Speaker 1: without selling shit from advertisements. Yeah, that's true. You don't

1311
01:21:59,370 --> 01:22:02,229
Speaker 1: know where that money's going. Yeah, let it be dick pills.

1312
01:22:03,060 --> 01:22:15,799
Speaker 1: Fingers crossed. And we're back.

1313
01:22:16,840 --> 01:22:21,900
Speaker 8: Cleansed from horrible shit that we'll continue onward with. So,

1314
01:22:22,540 --> 01:22:25,720
Speaker 8: near the end of May this year, the two co-founders

1315
01:22:25,800 --> 01:22:29,360
Speaker 8: of the Save Europe Act submitted the European Citizens Initiative.

1316
01:22:30,010 --> 01:22:31,850
Speaker 8: Those names are Martin Selner.

1317
01:22:31,870 --> 01:22:33,010
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.

1318
01:22:33,990 --> 01:22:39,680
Speaker 8: Molly's BFF, judging by her reaction. And my favorite country person,

1319
01:22:40,240 --> 01:22:41,340
Speaker 8: Eva Vlaardingerbroek.

1320
01:22:42,040 --> 01:22:42,280
Speaker 1: Okay.

1321
01:22:42,300 --> 01:22:44,559
Speaker 4: I haven't heard of her. I'm looking forward to learning about...

1322
01:22:44,900 --> 01:22:45,840
Speaker 4: Say that Dutch name again.

1323
01:22:46,340 --> 01:22:46,480
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1324
01:22:46,500 --> 01:22:48,540
Speaker 1: Can we take a second pass at that surname?

1325
01:22:49,080 --> 01:22:50,080
Speaker 4: Take a charge of that.

1326
01:22:50,100 --> 01:22:51,840
Speaker 1: Vlaardingerbroek.

1327
01:22:52,640 --> 01:22:53,320
Speaker 4: I'm not saying that.

1328
01:22:53,720 --> 01:22:55,780
Speaker 1: This is a language he has said we have to

1329
01:22:55,840 --> 01:22:56,650
Speaker 1: fight to preserve.

1330
01:22:56,810 --> 01:22:56,940
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1331
01:22:56,970 --> 01:22:57,050
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1332
01:22:57,970 --> 01:23:01,750
Speaker 4: Dutch is such a beautiful, beautiful language. It doesn't sound

1333
01:23:01,770 --> 01:23:05,250
Speaker 4: like a German with a terrible head injury had 17 beers.

1334
01:23:07,340 --> 01:23:08,180
Speaker 2: Sorry.

1335
01:23:08,220 --> 01:23:10,540
Speaker 1: How did you know the origins of my beautiful language?

1336
01:23:12,820 --> 01:23:15,720
Speaker 1: It's like their origin.

1337
01:23:16,200 --> 01:23:19,920
Speaker 8: It's still better than English because that's just like English,

1338
01:23:20,280 --> 01:23:23,940
Speaker 8: French and Scandinavian and gay, like all thrown into a blunder.

1339
01:23:24,540 --> 01:23:28,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it's our indigenous language that we... Yeah, we're

1340
01:23:28,560 --> 01:23:29,420
Speaker 1: Native Americans.

1341
01:23:29,880 --> 01:23:30,939
Speaker 4: It's our indigenous language.

1342
01:23:31,000 --> 01:23:34,800
Speaker 1: Indigenous British people, a country that famously was never colonized

1343
01:23:34,820 --> 01:23:39,020
Speaker 1: or received migration from anywhere until about 1998.

1344
01:23:39,020 --> 01:23:41,610
Speaker 4: That was the first time the culture was adulterated.

1345
01:23:42,090 --> 01:23:44,010
Speaker 1: Because of woke. Famously true. Because of woke.

1346
01:23:44,870 --> 01:23:47,310
Speaker 8: It does get me to another point because, like, James,

1347
01:23:47,370 --> 01:23:50,110
Speaker 8: when I texted you about this, you already said, like,

1348
01:23:50,310 --> 01:23:52,610
Speaker 8: people will not be able to pronounce her name. And

1349
01:23:52,650 --> 01:23:55,430
Speaker 8: I jokingly said to you, like, we could, could just

1350
01:23:55,490 --> 01:23:56,650
Speaker 8: call her Ava Brown.

1351
01:23:57,310 --> 01:23:58,030
Speaker 4: Ava Brown shirt.

1352
01:23:58,430 --> 01:24:03,300
Speaker 1: No, no, Ava Brown. Like, uh, the. Yeah, yeah, I know.

1353
01:24:03,320 --> 01:24:05,900
Speaker 1: Hitler's girlfriend. I know. But I will not do that.

1354
01:24:06,380 --> 01:24:08,420
Speaker 4: So if Vlardinger broke.

1355
01:24:08,979 --> 01:24:11,540
Speaker 1: Put some more throat into it.

1356
01:24:14,490 --> 01:24:16,930
Speaker 8: I will not do that because, well, in part because

1357
01:24:16,970 --> 01:24:20,950
Speaker 8: libel laws exist, but much more importantly, I think it's

1358
01:24:20,990 --> 01:24:25,030
Speaker 8: an unfair comparison. The original Eva Brau was just Hitler's wife,

1359
01:24:25,450 --> 01:24:27,830
Speaker 8: and she had very little to do with politics or

1360
01:24:27,910 --> 01:24:31,250
Speaker 8: policy or governance or anything else. She was asked or

1361
01:24:31,290 --> 01:24:34,140
Speaker 8: instructed to leave any time business or politics came up.

1362
01:24:34,770 --> 01:24:39,100
Speaker 8: And Vlaardingerbroek is much more involved in the political discourse and,

1363
01:24:39,260 --> 01:24:42,939
Speaker 8: as the Save Europe Act shows, in theorizing and crafting policy.

1364
01:24:43,660 --> 01:24:47,060
Speaker 8: So a much more apt but far less funny comparison

1365
01:24:47,090 --> 01:24:50,430
Speaker 8: would be to call her Eva Goebbels or Eva Heydrich.

1366
01:24:51,020 --> 01:24:53,080
Speaker 8: But that's just less funny. So I will just call

1367
01:24:53,120 --> 01:24:55,200
Speaker 8: her Eva. We'll get to her.

1368
01:24:56,000 --> 01:24:58,280
Speaker 4: So I've never heard of Eva. Martin Selner, just for the, well,

1369
01:24:58,320 --> 01:25:00,240
Speaker 4: I was so excited that this is fucking Martin Selner.

1370
01:25:00,979 --> 01:25:04,530
Speaker 4: He was involved with the American alt-right 10 years ago.

1371
01:25:04,689 --> 01:25:07,250
Speaker 4: There was an attempt to sort of create bridges between

1372
01:25:07,270 --> 01:25:12,230
Speaker 4: the American sort of burgeoning, sort of mainstreaming of neo-Nazis

1373
01:25:12,290 --> 01:25:15,230
Speaker 4: into the sort of political right. There was attempts to

1374
01:25:15,720 --> 01:25:19,910
Speaker 4: merge with the identitarian movements of France, and I guess

1375
01:25:20,290 --> 01:25:23,830
Speaker 4: in Austria, where Martin Sellner is from. Identity Europa was

1376
01:25:24,010 --> 01:25:27,450
Speaker 4: modeled after Generation Identity in France, which Martin Sellner also

1377
01:25:27,490 --> 01:25:29,930
Speaker 4: modeled his group off of in Austria. And so there

1378
01:25:29,950 --> 01:25:33,820
Speaker 4: were some connections there, like in 2017 when, oh, that

1379
01:25:33,880 --> 01:25:37,620
Speaker 4: horrible bitch from Canada, Lauren Southern. Lauren Southern got detained

1380
01:25:37,939 --> 01:25:40,040
Speaker 4: because she and Martin Sellner were on a boat that

1381
01:25:40,080 --> 01:25:42,340
Speaker 4: was like trying to drown migrants in the sea.

1382
01:25:42,500 --> 01:25:44,040
Speaker 1: God, I'd forgotten about that.

1383
01:25:44,060 --> 01:25:44,160
Speaker 6: Okay.

1384
01:25:44,930 --> 01:25:48,430
Speaker 4: So yeah, we know this man. He's trying to drown migrants.

1385
01:25:48,130 --> 01:25:51,219
Speaker 1: In the sea. Yeah, well, that answers my question about

1386
01:25:51,810 --> 01:25:53,190
Speaker 1: what they meant by the borders.

1387
01:25:53,680 --> 01:25:56,980
Speaker 8: But on the bright side, Molly, I do think Martin

1388
01:25:57,000 --> 01:25:59,660
Speaker 8: Selner looks like a looks-maxing Richard Spencer.

1389
01:26:00,420 --> 01:26:02,180
Speaker 4: Well, I don't know if you've seen Richard Spencer lately.

1390
01:26:02,540 --> 01:26:03,660
Speaker 4: It's not hard to look better than that.

1391
01:26:04,300 --> 01:26:07,080
Speaker 1: Looking like shit, brother. I missed my weekly Zoom call

1392
01:26:07,120 --> 01:26:09,240
Speaker 1: with him, so I'm not sure what's going on.

1393
01:26:09,560 --> 01:26:11,460
Speaker 4: Yeah, divorce did not treat him well.

1394
01:26:11,880 --> 01:26:14,360
Speaker 1: Okay, good. He deserves it. Okay.

1395
01:26:14,780 --> 01:26:18,100
Speaker 8: The European Citizens Initiative. At the time of writing, it

1396
01:26:18,220 --> 01:26:21,439
Speaker 8: obtained about 740,000 signatures.

1397
01:26:21,660 --> 01:26:22,910
Speaker 4: Oh, that's more than I would have preferred.

1398
01:26:22,930 --> 01:26:26,430
Speaker 8: Well, there's sort of good news on that front later.

1399
01:26:26,870 --> 01:26:30,650
Speaker 8: The system itself is less known among both Europeans and Americans.

1400
01:26:31,390 --> 01:26:34,629
Speaker 8: And the rejection of the Safe Europe Act is incredibly

1401
01:26:34,689 --> 01:26:38,210
Speaker 8: simple and dumb once you realize how it works. The

1402
01:26:38,290 --> 01:26:42,000
Speaker 8: ECI is pretty much a mechanism for some diluted form

1403
01:26:42,040 --> 01:26:46,180
Speaker 8: of direct democracy within the European Union. ECI proposals that

1404
01:26:46,240 --> 01:26:49,460
Speaker 8: are accepted call directly on the European Council to propose

1405
01:26:49,520 --> 01:26:54,440
Speaker 8: a legal act, usually a directive or legislation, on certain conditions.

1406
01:26:54,939 --> 01:26:58,580
Speaker 8: One of them is that the petition reaches one million signatures.

1407
01:26:59,000 --> 01:27:00,920
Speaker 4: Oh, so they didn't make it. So we don't have

1408
01:27:00,939 --> 01:27:01,920
Speaker 4: to take this seriously at all.

1409
01:27:02,360 --> 01:27:03,540
Speaker 1: We do, unfortunately.

1410
01:27:03,560 --> 01:27:04,840
Speaker 4: Oh, we do.

1411
01:27:05,880 --> 01:27:08,120
Speaker 1: When you've got three quarters of a million people signing

1412
01:27:08,160 --> 01:27:10,430
Speaker 1: on to something as openly racist as this shit, I

1413
01:27:10,470 --> 01:27:11,390
Speaker 1: think you do have to.

1414
01:27:11,720 --> 01:27:12,860
Speaker 4: But like, it's not going to get voted on.

1415
01:27:12,939 --> 01:27:15,460
Speaker 1: No, we'll get there. Okay.

1416
01:27:16,180 --> 01:27:17,220
Speaker 4: Explain Europe to me.

1417
01:27:18,280 --> 01:27:18,900
Speaker 1: Horribad.

1418
01:27:19,220 --> 01:27:22,540
Speaker 8: So, point two, that those signatures are from at least

1419
01:27:22,720 --> 01:27:26,640
Speaker 8: seven different member states with minimum amounts for each of

1420
01:27:26,680 --> 01:27:28,200
Speaker 8: those seven or more states.

1421
01:27:28,840 --> 01:27:29,320
Speaker 1: That makes sense.

1422
01:27:29,340 --> 01:27:32,059
Speaker 4: You can't just get like a million racist Croatians design it.

1423
01:27:32,360 --> 01:27:33,259
Speaker 1: No, exactly.

1424
01:27:33,280 --> 01:27:34,980
Speaker 4: No offense to Croatia. You just do have a lot

1425
01:27:35,010 --> 01:27:35,599
Speaker 4: of neo-Nazis.

1426
01:27:35,870 --> 01:27:38,860
Speaker 8: Don't look into their streets. On top, there's also a

1427
01:27:38,920 --> 01:27:42,360
Speaker 8: minimum amount of signatures that's needed per member state to

1428
01:27:42,420 --> 01:27:45,620
Speaker 8: ensure there's broad support for an idea across the EU.

1429
01:27:46,200 --> 01:27:48,230
Speaker 8: For example, you cannot have all the votes coming from

1430
01:27:48,280 --> 01:27:51,510
Speaker 8: Germany and only six votes from other member states. The

1431
01:27:51,530 --> 01:27:54,450
Speaker 8: minimums are based on the number of EU parliament members

1432
01:27:55,090 --> 01:27:57,110
Speaker 8: multiplied by 750. For example, the Dutch must deliver 20,445

1433
01:27:57,110 --> 01:28:08,160
Speaker 8: votes of this million, while Luxembourg only needs 4,230. So

1434
01:28:08,180 --> 01:28:10,660
Speaker 8: just like some proportional representation there.

1435
01:28:11,140 --> 01:28:11,280
Speaker 7: Right.

1436
01:28:11,300 --> 01:28:14,280
Speaker 4: So all the European Union member states have to kind

1437
01:28:14,340 --> 01:28:14,840
Speaker 4: of be on board.

1438
01:28:15,500 --> 01:28:18,059
Speaker 1: Yeah. Or at least enough of them. Yeah.

1439
01:28:18,780 --> 01:28:19,009
Speaker 3: Right.

1440
01:28:19,390 --> 01:28:21,009
Speaker 4: Like you can't get something through just because two or

1441
01:28:21,050 --> 01:28:23,849
Speaker 4: three states are being nasty. That makes sense.

1442
01:28:24,530 --> 01:28:24,769
Speaker 6: Yes.

1443
01:28:25,450 --> 01:28:29,210
Speaker 8: And specifically because it is directed, it doesn't have to

1444
01:28:29,250 --> 01:28:32,970
Speaker 8: go through like your national parliament and to be then

1445
01:28:33,070 --> 01:28:36,330
Speaker 8: like thrown upwards towards the EU. This is directly between

1446
01:28:36,370 --> 01:28:39,269
Speaker 8: the citizens. and the European Commission.

1447
01:28:39,870 --> 01:28:41,630
Speaker 4: I guess I don't really know what the EU can

1448
01:28:41,670 --> 01:28:44,110
Speaker 4: and cannot do. How much power would something passed by

1449
01:28:44,140 --> 01:28:48,120
Speaker 4: at the EU level have to change the immigration laws

1450
01:28:48,180 --> 01:28:48,900
Speaker 4: of a country?

1451
01:28:49,479 --> 01:28:50,979
Speaker 1: I'm not smart enough to answer that.

1452
01:28:51,420 --> 01:28:54,500
Speaker 4: In a universe where the EU does say, we're signing

1453
01:28:54,600 --> 01:28:57,090
Speaker 4: on to this, this is real, we're doing it, Does

1454
01:28:57,110 --> 01:28:59,800
Speaker 4: that supersede the immigration laws at the national level of

1455
01:28:59,840 --> 01:29:02,700
Speaker 4: the member states? Can this even be something? I guess

1456
01:29:02,740 --> 01:29:04,920
Speaker 4: is my question. I don't know with how the EU works,

1457
01:29:04,939 --> 01:29:05,880
Speaker 4: to be so honest.

1458
01:29:06,439 --> 01:29:08,760
Speaker 8: In any worst case scenario, how we see this happening

1459
01:29:08,880 --> 01:29:12,410
Speaker 8: would be that it would get passed. I suppose that

1460
01:29:12,430 --> 01:29:15,330
Speaker 8: then some form of like that legislation or directive will

1461
01:29:15,370 --> 01:29:20,549
Speaker 8: be conjured up from the bowels of coccitis or whatever.

1462
01:29:20,570 --> 01:29:20,639
Speaker 4: And.

1463
01:29:22,350 --> 01:29:24,229
Speaker 8: Then it would have to be voted on within the

1464
01:29:24,350 --> 01:29:28,030
Speaker 8: EU parliament. And should that for some reason happen, then

1465
01:29:28,110 --> 01:29:30,870
Speaker 8: I think that would be a not insignificant amount of

1466
01:29:30,950 --> 01:29:34,470
Speaker 8: power that the EU holds over individual member states. Because

1467
01:29:34,490 --> 01:29:37,070
Speaker 8: we also do that for trade and for, you know,

1468
01:29:37,130 --> 01:29:42,090
Speaker 8: regulating things across European borders. Like even for us, how

1469
01:29:42,110 --> 01:29:45,870
Speaker 8: the EU functions exactly is shrouded in mystery.

1470
01:29:46,110 --> 01:29:46,929
Speaker 4: It's a great mystery.

1471
01:29:47,030 --> 01:29:47,450
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1472
01:29:47,970 --> 01:29:51,809
Speaker 1: They cooperate on migration, right? You see this with the

1473
01:29:51,830 --> 01:29:55,670
Speaker 1: way the EU places its borders, the way that the

1474
01:29:55,729 --> 01:30:01,300
Speaker 1: EU kind of takes something of a united front on

1475
01:30:01,560 --> 01:30:03,620
Speaker 1: how it deals with things. And you saw this in

1476
01:30:03,979 --> 01:30:06,160
Speaker 1: the beginnings of the Syrian civil war, right? You saw

1477
01:30:06,220 --> 01:30:11,419
Speaker 1: Europe cooperating first to, in some cases, receive Syrian migrants

1478
01:30:11,460 --> 01:30:15,429
Speaker 1: and in many cases to repel them violently. But states

1479
01:30:15,470 --> 01:30:18,570
Speaker 1: also still would have sovereign to you, but like the

1480
01:30:18,630 --> 01:30:21,179
Speaker 1: exact nature of their laws. It's not like the EU

1481
01:30:21,229 --> 01:30:23,380
Speaker 1: can dictate what it takes to be a British, well,

1482
01:30:23,400 --> 01:30:27,380
Speaker 1: a British bad example. Because they left. Yeah, sorry. Yeah,

1483
01:30:27,580 --> 01:30:29,080
Speaker 1: and so did I. But the EU.

1484
01:30:29,040 --> 01:30:33,920
Speaker 4: Can't say to France like, you can't admit any more immigrants.

1485
01:30:33,620 --> 01:30:36,299
Speaker 1: Yeah or like we are obliging you to to remove

1486
01:30:36,360 --> 01:30:40,100
Speaker 1: the citizenship or to like de-frenchify these people.

1487
01:30:39,840 --> 01:30:42,019
Speaker 4: To outlaw the speaking of other languages as far.

1488
01:30:41,939 --> 01:30:44,300
Speaker 1: As i'm aware yeah like that could be like giving

1489
01:30:44,320 --> 01:30:46,240
Speaker 1: passes for the eu parliament then i guess there would

1490
01:30:46,260 --> 01:30:48,140
Speaker 1: be like a set of principles that the states would

1491
01:30:48,160 --> 01:30:50,439
Speaker 1: have to try and adhere to yes with their own

1492
01:30:50,500 --> 01:30:53,270
Speaker 1: policies which they're not having trouble doing like they found

1493
01:30:53,320 --> 01:30:56,519
Speaker 1: a lot of racists in germany recently apparently like uh Oh,

1494
01:30:56,540 --> 01:30:58,760
Speaker 1: but we have them in the Netherlands as well. Don't worry.

1495
01:30:58,979 --> 01:30:59,259
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1496
01:30:59,540 --> 01:31:01,400
Speaker 1: Britain's not immune from that either. It will shock people

1497
01:31:01,420 --> 01:31:01,720
Speaker 1: to hear.

1498
01:31:02,500 --> 01:31:05,230
Speaker 8: But to get back to Molly, I do think that

1499
01:31:05,470 --> 01:31:08,229
Speaker 8: to a certain extent, the EU could put diplomatic or

1500
01:31:08,290 --> 01:31:12,190
Speaker 8: economic pressure on member states to enforce something like this

1501
01:31:12,290 --> 01:31:13,530
Speaker 8: or to nudge them.

1502
01:31:13,890 --> 01:31:17,370
Speaker 4: Or like obliquely, like you would have to comply with certain,

1503
01:31:17,910 --> 01:31:20,150
Speaker 4: I don't know, like language restrictions on things that are

1504
01:31:20,210 --> 01:31:23,110
Speaker 4: involved in trade. And that would sort of obliquely enforce

1505
01:31:23,650 --> 01:31:25,240
Speaker 4: restrictions at the national level.

1506
01:31:25,710 --> 01:31:28,990
Speaker 8: Yes, but also I think this would heavily strain relations

1507
01:31:29,030 --> 01:31:32,229
Speaker 8: between the EU and the member states because it is,

1508
01:31:32,930 --> 01:31:34,650
Speaker 8: I don't want to call it authoritarian, but it is

1509
01:31:34,689 --> 01:31:38,460
Speaker 8: a power, like a supernatural power that's sort of going

1510
01:31:38,500 --> 01:31:41,780
Speaker 8: to tell countries what to do. And I can't imagine

1511
01:31:41,840 --> 01:31:45,000
Speaker 8: if it is something as vile as this, that that

1512
01:31:45,020 --> 01:31:45,800
Speaker 8: would go over well.

1513
01:31:46,340 --> 01:31:49,260
Speaker 4: It's just, it's so funny to me that the nationalists

1514
01:31:49,300 --> 01:31:52,370
Speaker 4: we have today, there's no nationalism there. Like a true

1515
01:31:52,450 --> 01:31:54,269
Speaker 4: nationalist would find this abhorrent.

1516
01:31:54,640 --> 01:31:55,939
Speaker 1: I agree with you completely.

1517
01:31:56,200 --> 01:31:57,480
Speaker 4: Our nationalists can't even do it right.

1518
01:31:57,820 --> 01:32:01,660
Speaker 8: But it's only nationalism if you hate certain people. Otherwise,

1519
01:32:01,780 --> 01:32:05,140
Speaker 8: it's just being a rhino. I think you call them

1520
01:32:05,200 --> 01:32:06,230
Speaker 8: in the United States.

1521
01:32:07,270 --> 01:32:07,969
Speaker 4: A nino.

1522
01:32:09,310 --> 01:32:12,110
Speaker 8: So to get back to the ECI. In the original

1523
01:32:12,170 --> 01:32:15,970
Speaker 8: treaty that formalized this mechanism, it states several conditions that

1524
01:32:16,330 --> 01:32:18,710
Speaker 8: the proposed act must adhere to.

1525
01:32:18,900 --> 01:32:19,640
Speaker 1: Before it passes.

1526
01:32:20,500 --> 01:32:24,610
Speaker 8: An initiative must be within the legal constraints of the EU. obviously,

1527
01:32:25,210 --> 01:32:30,009
Speaker 8: and the initiative must not be, and I quote, manifestly abusive, frivolous,

1528
01:32:30,150 --> 01:32:31,050
Speaker 8: or vexatious.

1529
01:32:31,530 --> 01:32:34,790
Speaker 4: Okay, is this not manifestly abusive, frivolous, and vexatious?

1530
01:32:34,810 --> 01:32:34,890
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1531
01:32:35,450 --> 01:32:39,309
Speaker 1: I read those sentences as legal code for no bullshit, please. Yeah,

1532
01:32:39,330 --> 01:32:41,690
Speaker 1: but this is bullshit. Yeah, this is bullshit.

1533
01:32:42,090 --> 01:32:42,230
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1534
01:32:43,130 --> 01:32:44,570
Speaker 4: This is manifestly abusive.

1535
01:32:45,450 --> 01:32:47,610
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the abusive one. I think they don't want

1536
01:32:47,650 --> 01:32:52,380
Speaker 1: you doing one that's like so-and-so is ugly and has

1537
01:32:52,600 --> 01:32:54,650
Speaker 1: a big nose or whatever they want.

1538
01:32:54,810 --> 01:32:57,160
Speaker 4: But this is vexatious and frivolous.

1539
01:32:57,939 --> 01:33:01,660
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's fucking vexing me, I can tell you. I'm vexed.

1540
01:33:03,600 --> 01:33:05,580
Speaker 8: Well, then it's good that we're slowly getting to the

1541
01:33:05,620 --> 01:33:09,130
Speaker 8: funnier parts of this. One of the more important things

1542
01:33:09,170 --> 01:33:12,670
Speaker 8: that were in this statement from the European Commission, because

1543
01:33:13,229 --> 01:33:16,530
Speaker 8: usually they all have to rule after the 1 million

1544
01:33:16,570 --> 01:33:19,510
Speaker 8: votes has been met. They already ruled on this, but

1545
01:33:19,610 --> 01:33:22,630
Speaker 8: not on its merits, but on the legality of it.

1546
01:33:23,300 --> 01:33:26,960
Speaker 8: And I'll be quoting directly from the document here. Article

1547
01:33:26,960 --> 01:33:29,979
Speaker 8: 6.3 of the ECI states that the initiative is not

1548
01:33:30,040 --> 01:33:33,420
Speaker 8: manifestly contrary to the values of the union as set

1549
01:33:33,520 --> 01:33:36,000
Speaker 8: out in Article 2.1. And the rights and strides in

1550
01:33:36,020 --> 01:33:39,500
Speaker 8: the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union. Essentially,

1551
01:33:39,600 --> 01:33:42,860
Speaker 8: like whatever people want to pass and sign on to,

1552
01:33:43,640 --> 01:33:46,900
Speaker 8: it can't violate European law. I think this is important

1553
01:33:46,939 --> 01:33:48,550
Speaker 8: because proponents of.

1554
01:33:48,510 --> 01:33:51,809
Speaker 1: The Safe Europe Act will say that this petition was

1555
01:33:51,850 --> 01:33:55,469
Speaker 1: denied due to its politics and thus it's an anti-democratic ruling.

1556
01:33:55,850 --> 01:33:58,330
Speaker 4: Oh, I'm being canceled. I'm being canceled. No, you just

1557
01:33:58,350 --> 01:33:58,990
Speaker 4: didn't read the rules.

1558
01:33:59,070 --> 01:33:59,990
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.

1559
01:34:00,290 --> 01:34:03,640
Speaker 8: There is like a Twitter clip somewhere of Eva and

1560
01:34:03,700 --> 01:34:06,729
Speaker 8: Martin saying, discussing this it's like oh this is just

1561
01:34:06,810 --> 01:34:12,019
Speaker 8: anti-democratic and no no it isn't ava you're a legal

1562
01:34:12,110 --> 01:34:16,140
Speaker 8: philosopher you're smart enough to understand this yeah you've you've

1563
01:34:16,220 --> 01:34:19,240
Speaker 8: never read the talkville yeah i'll say that like she

1564
01:34:19,280 --> 01:34:21,179
Speaker 8: at least has credentials you know.

1565
01:34:21,479 --> 01:34:24,519
Speaker 4: Right because this is disingenuous they know they but they

1566
01:34:24,640 --> 01:34:27,620
Speaker 4: also know that it is very effective to say we're

1567
01:34:27,660 --> 01:34:29,960
Speaker 4: being silenced because of how right we are but these

1568
01:34:30,320 --> 01:34:32,460
Speaker 4: These mobs of people, the ones we think need to

1569
01:34:32,479 --> 01:34:35,260
Speaker 4: be brought under control, they're stopping us from doing this

1570
01:34:35,300 --> 01:34:39,760
Speaker 4: good thing. Like, that's a very effective form of this

1571
01:34:39,820 --> 01:34:43,660
Speaker 4: particular kind of rhetoric. Doing it wrong and pretending you're

1572
01:34:43,680 --> 01:34:46,360
Speaker 4: being silenced is more effective than actually doing it right.

1573
01:34:46,390 --> 01:34:46,550
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1574
01:34:47,410 --> 01:34:47,809
Speaker 4: And easier.

1575
01:34:48,729 --> 01:34:51,050
Speaker 8: That is the very scary part of, like, the Save

1576
01:34:51,070 --> 01:34:55,269
Speaker 8: Europe Act. Because in the end, this is much more

1577
01:34:55,330 --> 01:34:59,870
Speaker 8: about influencing the discourse and pushing the overtime window. Then

1578
01:34:59,890 --> 01:35:00,809
Speaker 8: it is about anything else.

1579
01:35:01,630 --> 01:35:04,290
Speaker 4: Right. If you can get the EU to even look

1580
01:35:04,330 --> 01:35:06,929
Speaker 4: at your petition, you have legitimized that this is something

1581
01:35:06,970 --> 01:35:08,950
Speaker 4: that belongs in the political sphere.

1582
01:35:09,229 --> 01:35:09,450
Speaker 1: Right.

1583
01:35:09,710 --> 01:35:09,910
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1584
01:35:10,290 --> 01:35:13,290
Speaker 1: You've moved it from storm front to in the middle

1585
01:35:13,310 --> 01:35:14,130
Speaker 1: of the Overton window.

1586
01:35:14,250 --> 01:35:16,440
Speaker 4: Like you're not just like a little fucking piss boy

1587
01:35:16,570 --> 01:35:18,780
Speaker 4: on a ship screaming and crying because you want migrants

1588
01:35:18,820 --> 01:35:21,460
Speaker 4: to drown in the sea. You're being considered by the

1589
01:35:21,500 --> 01:35:22,120
Speaker 4: European Union.

1590
01:35:22,400 --> 01:35:22,599
Speaker 6: Yes.

1591
01:35:22,700 --> 01:35:26,320
Speaker 8: And for now, they've just tested its legal viability with

1592
01:35:26,400 --> 01:35:27,059
Speaker 8: European law.

1593
01:35:27,479 --> 01:35:31,560
Speaker 1: And we're like, nope, get out. which like the fascists.

1594
01:35:31,200 --> 01:35:36,519
Speaker 8: Immediately claim as some sort of anti-democratic political violence against them.

1595
01:35:37,150 --> 01:35:37,349
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1596
01:35:37,750 --> 01:35:41,229
Speaker 4: We're being silenced. We're being silenced. Probably by the Jews.

1597
01:35:41,250 --> 01:35:43,349
Speaker 4: I mean, knowing Martin, I don't know if he says

1598
01:35:43,390 --> 01:35:44,710
Speaker 4: it out loud anymore. He used to.

1599
01:35:45,189 --> 01:35:47,950
Speaker 8: Like even in the statement, like the commission does not

1600
01:35:48,020 --> 01:35:52,780
Speaker 8: analyze the policy merits at the stage of the eligibility check.

1601
01:35:53,080 --> 01:35:53,180
Speaker 7: So.

1602
01:35:54,229 --> 01:35:58,210
Speaker 8: In layman's terms, the proposed act is incompatible with existing

1603
01:35:58,250 --> 01:35:59,389
Speaker 8: legal mumbo-jumbo.

1604
01:36:00,270 --> 01:36:02,220
Speaker 4: I can file any lawsuit I want in court. I

1605
01:36:02,240 --> 01:36:04,840
Speaker 4: could file a lawsuit saying that you put a spell

1606
01:36:04,920 --> 01:36:08,400
Speaker 4: on my dog that made him racist. But I could

1607
01:36:08,420 --> 01:36:09,700
Speaker 4: file that in court and the judge is not going

1608
01:36:09,720 --> 01:36:11,780
Speaker 4: to rule on the facts of the case. He's just

1609
01:36:11,800 --> 01:36:14,129
Speaker 4: going to throw it out because that's not a real...

1610
01:36:13,900 --> 01:36:15,910
Speaker 4: You know what I mean? The ruling at that early

1611
01:36:15,970 --> 01:36:20,290
Speaker 4: stage is just that, well, this isn't real. There's no standing.

1612
01:36:20,310 --> 01:36:23,700
Speaker 4: There's no jurisdiction. This is not an actionable matter. So

1613
01:36:23,720 --> 01:36:26,089
Speaker 4: they're not saying whether this is good or bad. They're

1614
01:36:26,100 --> 01:36:28,110
Speaker 4: just saying this can't be here because they didn't meet

1615
01:36:28,130 --> 01:36:28,970
Speaker 4: the legal requirements.

1616
01:36:29,410 --> 01:36:33,370
Speaker 1: You're so succinct, Molly. I appreciate it.

1617
01:36:33,390 --> 01:36:34,910
Speaker 4: I read a lot of lawsuits that are a lot

1618
01:36:34,970 --> 01:36:36,380
Speaker 4: like this petition.

1619
01:36:36,400 --> 01:36:37,099
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1620
01:36:37,360 --> 01:36:40,580
Speaker 1: Well, given that the Alex Jones lawsuit existed.

1621
01:36:40,720 --> 01:36:42,460
Speaker 4: No, but when you throw something out at this early

1622
01:36:42,479 --> 01:36:44,400
Speaker 4: stage and you have people say like, oh, I'm being

1623
01:36:44,420 --> 01:36:46,860
Speaker 4: denied access to the system. No, it's that the system

1624
01:36:46,900 --> 01:36:49,410
Speaker 4: looked at what you produced and said, this is fake.

1625
01:36:49,430 --> 01:36:49,570
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1626
01:36:50,290 --> 01:36:52,570
Speaker 8: You have to wear a yellow sweater in order to

1627
01:36:52,670 --> 01:36:56,410
Speaker 8: access this bit. You're not wearing a yellow sweater. Therefore,

1628
01:36:56,450 --> 01:36:57,290
Speaker 8: you cannot come in.

1629
01:36:57,590 --> 01:37:00,670
Speaker 4: You're not being silenced. You're just not participating in the

1630
01:37:00,689 --> 01:37:01,639
Speaker 4: process properly.

1631
01:37:02,260 --> 01:37:04,680
Speaker 8: For shits and giggles, if I read between the lines,

1632
01:37:05,100 --> 01:37:07,200
Speaker 8: I think the commission itself was also a bit shocked

1633
01:37:07,280 --> 01:37:09,960
Speaker 8: at it. Because in the same press release about this,

1634
01:37:10,020 --> 01:37:13,860
Speaker 8: they state, the initiative must contain a genuine proposal and

1635
01:37:13,900 --> 01:37:17,840
Speaker 8: not be used as a vehicle for offensive or caricatural messages.

1636
01:37:18,540 --> 01:37:21,180
Speaker 8: Which I think is pretty sassy insofar as, like, legal

1637
01:37:21,260 --> 01:37:24,880
Speaker 8: sassy just goes. They're essentially saying, like, the fuck you

1638
01:37:24,900 --> 01:37:29,300
Speaker 8: doing is how I interpret it. There is, however, another

1639
01:37:29,340 --> 01:37:32,600
Speaker 8: threshold that they fail to meet, which is that anyone

1640
01:37:32,680 --> 01:37:34,420
Speaker 8: can sign an online petition.

1641
01:37:34,439 --> 01:37:37,420
Speaker 4: Uh-oh, these weren't valid signatures.

1642
01:37:37,700 --> 01:37:40,969
Speaker 8: Yes, there is no stopping you, the listener, from going

1643
01:37:41,020 --> 01:37:44,550
Speaker 8: to a website right now, sign in, and, you know,

1644
01:37:44,610 --> 01:37:45,670
Speaker 8: sign the Safe Europe Act.

1645
01:37:45,729 --> 01:37:47,550
Speaker 4: But I'm not a citizen of the European Union.

1646
01:37:48,090 --> 01:37:50,530
Speaker 1: But you can still sign it in a show of support.

1647
01:37:50,950 --> 01:37:53,170
Speaker 4: But that wouldn't count towards the 1 million signatures that

1648
01:37:53,210 --> 01:37:53,570
Speaker 4: they need.

1649
01:37:54,150 --> 01:37:58,570
Speaker 8: We're coming close because different states could require different identification.

1650
01:37:58,590 --> 01:38:03,110
Speaker 8: It can't be 10 people in a basement continuously making

1651
01:38:03,170 --> 01:38:05,680
Speaker 8: new email addresses and re-signing the petition.

1652
01:38:05,729 --> 01:38:06,450
Speaker 1: That doesn't work.

1653
01:38:06,689 --> 01:38:09,760
Speaker 4: So how do they go about validating those? That sounds complex.

1654
01:38:10,360 --> 01:38:14,300
Speaker 1: Not through how they're doing it right now. Because.

1655
01:38:15,350 --> 01:38:17,929
Speaker 8: All you need is a name that can be checked

1656
01:38:17,970 --> 01:38:19,570
Speaker 8: with an email address that can be checked.

1657
01:38:19,590 --> 01:38:21,820
Speaker 4: Oh, so they're not validating them.

1658
01:38:22,479 --> 01:38:25,620
Speaker 8: No, not in a way that would meet the criteria

1659
01:38:25,800 --> 01:38:27,110
Speaker 8: set by the European Union.

1660
01:38:27,610 --> 01:38:29,630
Speaker 4: So they knew they weren't doing this properly because that

1661
01:38:29,650 --> 01:38:29,969
Speaker 4: was nevertheless.

1662
01:38:30,100 --> 01:38:31,740
Speaker 1: Point. It was never the point.

1663
01:38:32,000 --> 01:38:33,800
Speaker 4: Because if you were running an actual sort of political

1664
01:38:33,860 --> 01:38:36,559
Speaker 4: campaign to get this thing advanced in a very serious way,

1665
01:38:37,350 --> 01:38:39,450
Speaker 4: you would have been collecting valid signatures that you would

1666
01:38:39,490 --> 01:38:42,170
Speaker 4: be able to validate if a legal challenge was brought.

1667
01:38:42,729 --> 01:38:43,630
Speaker 4: And they didn't do that.

1668
01:38:43,970 --> 01:38:44,190
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1669
01:38:44,210 --> 01:38:44,290
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1670
01:38:44,570 --> 01:38:47,809
Speaker 8: Yes, and you'd also put in safeguards to prevent people

1671
01:38:47,830 --> 01:38:50,980
Speaker 8: from outside the EU from voting on this or signing it.

1672
01:38:51,439 --> 01:38:52,900
Speaker 4: So this was never sincere?

1673
01:38:53,080 --> 01:38:53,840
Speaker 1: Absolutely not.

1674
01:38:54,120 --> 01:38:54,780
Speaker 4: That's shocking.

1675
01:38:55,060 --> 01:38:56,300
Speaker 1: I am shocked and appalled.

1676
01:38:57,160 --> 01:38:59,060
Speaker 4: A Nazi playing in my face?

1677
01:38:59,820 --> 01:39:02,880
Speaker 8: Well, it gets better, Molly, because now there's a bunch

1678
01:39:02,920 --> 01:39:04,560
Speaker 8: of names that I'm sure you'll recognize.

1679
01:39:05,020 --> 01:39:05,519
Speaker 4: Oh, yes.

1680
01:39:05,700 --> 01:39:09,580
Speaker 8: But there's also been American far-right agitators who have promoted

1681
01:39:09,620 --> 01:39:10,299
Speaker 8: this on Twitter.

1682
01:39:10,920 --> 01:39:13,020
Speaker 4: How many people signed it with the name Rudolph Hess?

1683
01:39:13,439 --> 01:39:15,100
Speaker 4: At least 10, right? Do you have a list of

1684
01:39:15,120 --> 01:39:16,380
Speaker 4: the signatures? I would love to look at them.

1685
01:39:16,620 --> 01:39:19,340
Speaker 8: I'll send you the website in a bit, but I'm

1686
01:39:19,360 --> 01:39:22,599
Speaker 8: not sure. But one of the very cool Americans who

1687
01:39:22,640 --> 01:39:24,300
Speaker 8: promoted this was Benny Johnson.

1688
01:39:24,810 --> 01:39:25,510
Speaker 4: No shit.

1689
01:39:25,770 --> 01:39:26,189
Speaker 7: Oh, wow.

1690
01:39:26,410 --> 01:39:26,710
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1691
01:39:26,729 --> 01:39:30,070
Speaker 8: He had one of the co-founders on his bigot cast

1692
01:39:30,229 --> 01:39:33,570
Speaker 8: and even tweeted a link to the petition. I don't

1693
01:39:33,610 --> 01:39:36,270
Speaker 8: know Benny Johnson, but I'm going to guess that his

1694
01:39:36,390 --> 01:39:42,139
Speaker 8: audience is largely American. So, yeah, not really sure. How

1695
01:39:42,189 --> 01:39:46,460
Speaker 8: much goods, signature-wise, that has done. But we can't rule

1696
01:39:46,560 --> 01:39:49,519
Speaker 8: out that there's a bunch of Americans who have signed it.

1697
01:39:49,700 --> 01:39:54,660
Speaker 8: And therefore, we don't know how many of those 750,000

1698
01:39:54,660 --> 01:39:56,080
Speaker 8: are legitimate.

1699
01:39:56,100 --> 01:39:58,700
Speaker 4: I would guess not a lot.

1700
01:39:59,330 --> 01:40:02,730
Speaker 1: Genuinely, I don't know. I also don't think there's any

1701
01:40:02,770 --> 01:40:04,150
Speaker 1: way to find out.

1702
01:40:05,229 --> 01:40:07,170
Speaker 4: Exactly, because if they did not collect them in a

1703
01:40:07,189 --> 01:40:10,189
Speaker 4: way that could be validated, they're not going to be.

1704
01:40:10,670 --> 01:40:12,470
Speaker 4: This was a waste of time because it was never

1705
01:40:12,490 --> 01:40:12,790
Speaker 4: the point.

1706
01:40:12,870 --> 01:40:15,750
Speaker 1: Well, it wasn't a waste of time. It's just it's

1707
01:40:15,850 --> 01:40:17,380
Speaker 1: not doing what it says on the tin.

1708
01:40:18,320 --> 01:40:21,400
Speaker 4: Collecting valid signatures was never actually the goal or they

1709
01:40:21,420 --> 01:40:23,400
Speaker 4: would have collected them in a way that would have

1710
01:40:23,420 --> 01:40:24,000
Speaker 4: been functional.

1711
01:40:24,340 --> 01:40:24,520
Speaker 6: Yes.

1712
01:40:24,760 --> 01:40:25,040
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1713
01:40:25,720 --> 01:40:27,460
Speaker 4: Well, I can sign it right now. It's right at

1714
01:40:27,479 --> 01:40:30,260
Speaker 4: the top of the page. Sign now.

1715
01:40:30,520 --> 01:40:31,600
Speaker 1: Please do not do that.

1716
01:40:32,080 --> 01:40:32,930
Speaker 4: I'm not going to do that.

1717
01:40:33,350 --> 01:40:33,660
Speaker 1: Thank you.

1718
01:40:34,550 --> 01:40:38,129
Speaker 8: Besides Benny, there were also others who did that, including

1719
01:40:38,270 --> 01:40:40,650
Speaker 8: like friend of the pod, Jack Posobiec.

1720
01:40:41,490 --> 01:40:41,889
Speaker 12: Oh, cool.

1721
01:40:42,210 --> 01:40:47,450
Speaker 8: And Joey Manarino, who tweeted, everyone, no matter where they

1722
01:40:47,490 --> 01:40:50,610
Speaker 8: are from, should go and sign this act. The momentum

1723
01:40:50,650 --> 01:40:53,510
Speaker 8: for remigration is so real and it could absolutely be

1724
01:40:53,550 --> 01:40:56,490
Speaker 8: pulled off if there is unity. Sign the act to

1725
01:40:56,550 --> 01:40:57,290
Speaker 8: save Europe.

1726
01:40:58,210 --> 01:41:00,950
Speaker 1: End quote. I wonder if Greg Bovino signed it. He's

1727
01:41:00,970 --> 01:41:03,049
Speaker 1: been over there doing some remigration chats.

1728
01:41:03,850 --> 01:41:06,770
Speaker 8: I'm sure he would enthusiastically sign it, but I didn't

1729
01:41:06,850 --> 01:41:07,189
Speaker 8: see him.

1730
01:41:07,650 --> 01:41:11,050
Speaker 1: Yeah. There's also like Lucy White, a Restore Britain candidate

1731
01:41:11,070 --> 01:41:12,099
Speaker 1: who also signed it.

1732
01:41:12,520 --> 01:41:14,280
Speaker 4: But she knows she doesn't live in the EU.

1733
01:41:15,220 --> 01:41:17,400
Speaker 1: One can assume. One can assume.

1734
01:41:18,360 --> 01:41:20,540
Speaker 8: And also, not to forget the worst thing that came

1735
01:41:20,600 --> 01:41:24,590
Speaker 8: out of apartheid South Africa, Elon Musk, who also shared

1736
01:41:24,650 --> 01:41:25,750
Speaker 8: a Save Europe video.

1737
01:41:26,050 --> 01:41:26,849
Speaker 4: Bold statement.

1738
01:41:26,930 --> 01:41:27,330
Speaker 1: Yes, bold.

1739
01:41:27,689 --> 01:41:29,950
Speaker 4: Oh, wow, Victor Orban signed it. That was shocking.

1740
01:41:30,010 --> 01:41:31,410
Speaker 1: Yeah, no surprises there.

1741
01:41:31,830 --> 01:41:32,730
Speaker 4: Really surprised there.

1742
01:41:32,770 --> 01:41:33,510
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1743
01:41:33,650 --> 01:41:33,910
Speaker 6: Wow.

1744
01:41:34,030 --> 01:41:37,360
Speaker 8: Like, if Midlife Crisis Edison tweets about this, then we

1745
01:41:37,380 --> 01:41:38,719
Speaker 8: can safely assume that it has.

1746
01:41:38,680 --> 01:41:40,939
Speaker 1: Reached at least millions of people worldwide.

1747
01:41:41,500 --> 01:41:44,080
Speaker 8: But that still doesn't matter in terms of, like, the

1748
01:41:44,120 --> 01:41:48,720
Speaker 8: act being passed, because, again... No way to validate this.

1749
01:41:48,979 --> 01:41:50,439
Speaker 4: I just don't think there are a lot of Europeans

1750
01:41:50,479 --> 01:41:53,330
Speaker 4: are watching. Not a lot of Europeans are watching Benny Johnson.

1751
01:41:53,350 --> 01:41:53,750
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1752
01:41:53,790 --> 01:41:55,250
Speaker 4: I mean, not a lot of Americans are watching it.

1753
01:41:55,310 --> 01:41:56,790
Speaker 4: Not a lot of people are watching it.

1754
01:41:57,189 --> 01:41:58,330
Speaker 1: Nobody should watch him.

1755
01:41:58,890 --> 01:42:02,229
Speaker 8: But this is what upsets me because this is so

1756
01:42:02,430 --> 01:42:06,080
Speaker 8: incredibly doomed from the start. If you look at it

1757
01:42:06,600 --> 01:42:10,200
Speaker 8: like this is seeing Bruce Wayne's parents walk at the

1758
01:42:10,240 --> 01:42:14,190
Speaker 8: beginning of a Batman movie or like. Spider-Man's Uncle Ben

1759
01:42:14,290 --> 01:42:19,030
Speaker 8: or Kenny from fucking South Park. You know it's going

1760
01:42:19,070 --> 01:42:22,480
Speaker 8: to fail. You know they're going to die. For some reason,

1761
01:42:22,520 --> 01:42:26,840
Speaker 8: these people have taped the corpses over mannequins and just

1762
01:42:26,900 --> 01:42:31,090
Speaker 8: paraded them around as if there's still a possibility.

1763
01:42:31,430 --> 01:42:35,759
Speaker 4: But they are sort of continuing to advance the agenda

1764
01:42:35,770 --> 01:42:38,640
Speaker 4: that this is something that is up for legitimate debate

1765
01:42:38,860 --> 01:42:42,420
Speaker 4: right that that preserving western culture is a is a

1766
01:42:42,900 --> 01:42:46,960
Speaker 4: real political topic for debate right that like we need

1767
01:42:47,000 --> 01:42:49,419
Speaker 4: to have debates on on the floor of the parliament

1768
01:42:49,479 --> 01:42:52,220
Speaker 4: about whether or not we should all be speaking one language.

1769
01:42:52,560 --> 01:42:54,080
Speaker 8: From the top of my head i didn't check this

1770
01:42:54,120 --> 01:42:57,320
Speaker 8: i think europe has like 280 million people probably more

1771
01:42:57,340 --> 01:43:01,599
Speaker 8: and You're so nationalistic yet you want to use this

1772
01:43:01,660 --> 01:43:04,650
Speaker 8: shortcut of one million people to bypass like.

1773
01:43:04,950 --> 01:43:07,890
Speaker 4: Your own national sovereignty. That's what I'm saying. Like this is.

1774
01:43:07,950 --> 01:43:08,170
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1775
01:43:08,470 --> 01:43:13,370
Speaker 4: What kind of nationalism involves subverting national sovereignty, you fucking cucks?

1776
01:43:13,850 --> 01:43:17,280
Speaker 8: This is what gets me because it is working in

1777
01:43:17,460 --> 01:43:20,620
Speaker 8: terms of like public discourse and normalizing remigration.

1778
01:43:20,640 --> 01:43:21,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, it definitely is.

1779
01:43:21,800 --> 01:43:24,600
Speaker 4: And that's Elon Musk's primary goal right now is just

1780
01:43:24,820 --> 01:43:28,880
Speaker 4: normalizing this level of... of hitlerian discourse.

1781
01:43:28,439 --> 01:43:30,620
Speaker 1: Yeah which he has successfully done right like.

1782
01:43:30,500 --> 01:43:34,120
Speaker 4: Yeah he's doing it every day yeah he's doing like

1783
01:43:34,160 --> 01:43:36,320
Speaker 4: race and iq posting constantly.

1784
01:43:36,200 --> 01:43:39,939
Speaker 8: Yeah nothing screams high iq as much as talking non-stop

1785
01:43:39,979 --> 01:43:43,420
Speaker 8: about iq like everyone who has to tell you that

1786
01:43:43,439 --> 01:43:47,580
Speaker 8: they're so fucking smart it's probably not yeah so.

1787
01:43:47,920 --> 01:43:49,800
Speaker 4: Well that's why none of his rockets blow up because

1788
01:43:49,820 --> 01:43:51,140
Speaker 4: he's so smart.

1789
01:43:51,340 --> 01:43:53,519
Speaker 1: Don't look it up i'm sure he spent a great

1790
01:43:53,560 --> 01:43:56,300
Speaker 1: deal of time designing those rockets personally as well not

1791
01:43:57,189 --> 01:43:58,689
Speaker 1: posting 18 hours a day.

1792
01:43:59,490 --> 01:44:03,310
Speaker 8: Well, I'll respect Jeff Bezos' rocket just because they look

1793
01:44:03,350 --> 01:44:04,050
Speaker 8: more original.

1794
01:44:04,490 --> 01:44:06,410
Speaker 4: I'll never respect Jeff Bezos, and no one can make me.

1795
01:44:08,020 --> 01:44:08,480
Speaker 1: Fair point.

1796
01:44:08,500 --> 01:44:10,559
Speaker 4: When I picture Jeff Bezos, the only thing I picture

1797
01:44:10,920 --> 01:44:14,380
Speaker 4: is him on vacation with that, like, deep-V, like, unbuttoned

1798
01:44:15,400 --> 01:44:19,040
Speaker 4: dress shirt with the roast iguana. That's the only thing

1799
01:44:19,080 --> 01:44:20,360
Speaker 4: I think of when I think of Jeff Bezos. It's

1800
01:44:20,380 --> 01:44:21,759
Speaker 4: him holding a roasted iguana.

1801
01:44:21,920 --> 01:44:24,610
Speaker 8: Molly, I'm trying to focus on a podcast here. Stop

1802
01:44:24,650 --> 01:44:30,480
Speaker 8: selling me this... graphic, erotic picture of Jeff Bezos. That's

1803
01:44:30,520 --> 01:44:32,780
Speaker 8: not why we're here. We can do that on the

1804
01:44:32,820 --> 01:44:33,620
Speaker 8: other podcast.

1805
01:44:33,840 --> 01:44:35,860
Speaker 4: I think I'm combining two pictures in my mind. The

1806
01:44:35,920 --> 01:44:38,380
Speaker 4: iguana picture, he doesn't have the unbuttoned vacation shirt.

1807
01:44:38,439 --> 01:44:38,839
Speaker 7: Wow.

1808
01:44:38,860 --> 01:44:40,870
Speaker 4: I guess I'm just inventing an image in my mind.

1809
01:44:40,910 --> 01:44:42,530
Speaker 1: Yeah, Molly's headcanon.

1810
01:44:42,550 --> 01:44:44,170
Speaker 4: But the iguana pic is scary.

1811
01:44:44,490 --> 01:44:45,810
Speaker 1: Well, the good thing is you can now invent it

1812
01:44:45,870 --> 01:44:48,530
Speaker 1: on Grog. Cursed fan art.

1813
01:44:48,830 --> 01:44:50,950
Speaker 4: No, it'll just make child porn of Jeff Bezos.

1814
01:44:51,250 --> 01:44:54,879
Speaker 8: Yeah, his alive girl comments or texts.

1815
01:44:57,380 --> 01:45:01,090
Speaker 4: I forgot about I Love You Alive, girl.

1816
01:45:01,320 --> 01:45:05,390
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. Soul is ghouls, the bunch of them.

1817
01:45:05,930 --> 01:45:07,430
Speaker 4: So the signatures were fake?

1818
01:45:08,050 --> 01:45:09,110
Speaker 1: Yeah, pretty much.

1819
01:45:09,570 --> 01:45:12,410
Speaker 8: Could be 10 people in a basement with like a

1820
01:45:12,470 --> 01:45:16,599
Speaker 8: supercomputer just generating clicks. We don't know, but I don't

1821
01:45:16,640 --> 01:45:19,500
Speaker 8: think it'll even reach the million. But even if it did,

1822
01:45:19,900 --> 01:45:23,780
Speaker 8: then the signatures would come in question. And yeah, just

1823
01:45:24,120 --> 01:45:25,100
Speaker 8: absolutely doomed.

1824
01:45:25,729 --> 01:45:28,550
Speaker 4: Well, actually, I hope they have to raise a bunch

1825
01:45:28,590 --> 01:45:31,230
Speaker 4: of money from a bunch of fucking rubes to hire

1826
01:45:31,290 --> 01:45:33,730
Speaker 4: someone to validate the signatures, which they won't be able

1827
01:45:33,750 --> 01:45:35,010
Speaker 4: to do. I would love that.

1828
01:45:35,050 --> 01:45:37,229
Speaker 8: There will be a lawyer out there who will... I mean,

1829
01:45:37,250 --> 01:45:38,750
Speaker 8: if I had a law degree, I would take it

1830
01:45:38,830 --> 01:45:39,969
Speaker 8: on just to get that money.

1831
01:45:39,990 --> 01:45:40,650
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1832
01:45:41,030 --> 01:45:41,390
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.

1833
01:45:41,450 --> 01:45:44,640
Speaker 4: Someone's going to take this on. So, yeah, by all means,

1834
01:45:44,689 --> 01:45:48,100
Speaker 4: start a fundraising campaign. Get money out of the pockets

1835
01:45:48,220 --> 01:45:49,680
Speaker 4: of the dumbest racists in the world.

1836
01:45:49,700 --> 01:45:50,269
Speaker 6: Go for it.

1837
01:45:50,900 --> 01:45:54,140
Speaker 1: I should have gone for that law degree. But anyway,

1838
01:45:54,479 --> 01:45:54,760
Speaker 1: I think.

1839
01:45:55,290 --> 01:45:58,070
Speaker 8: We already discussed solar schools and we're going to be

1840
01:45:58,110 --> 01:46:01,540
Speaker 8: discussing more of them. But first, I think the solar

1841
01:46:01,560 --> 01:46:04,400
Speaker 8: schools that support this podcast.

1842
01:46:05,280 --> 01:46:06,860
Speaker 1: Can I say that? Yeah, I think so.

1843
01:46:06,979 --> 01:46:07,500
Speaker 4: You don't work here.

1844
01:46:07,780 --> 01:46:08,139
Speaker 1: Perfect.

1845
01:46:19,810 --> 01:46:22,950
Speaker 8: And we're back and we're exchanging the soulless ghouls for

1846
01:46:22,979 --> 01:46:27,920
Speaker 8: the humanoid husks filled with unending appetite for atrocities. I

1847
01:46:27,960 --> 01:46:30,220
Speaker 8: think we said all the nice things about the act itself,

1848
01:46:30,979 --> 01:46:31,900
Speaker 8: even though I wish I could have.

1849
01:46:31,880 --> 01:46:32,780
Speaker 1: Said less about it.

1850
01:46:33,439 --> 01:46:36,380
Speaker 8: Unfortunately, just, this is just the Rivendell stop of our

1851
01:46:36,460 --> 01:46:39,070
Speaker 8: quest to destroy the ring. And we have yet to

1852
01:46:39,310 --> 01:46:43,269
Speaker 8: meet the spawns that have emerged from Minos, Morgul and Gorgorov.

1853
01:46:43,970 --> 01:46:44,490
Speaker 4: Deep cut.

1854
01:46:44,710 --> 01:46:45,030
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1855
01:46:45,430 --> 01:46:45,710
Speaker 7: Yeah.

1856
01:46:46,050 --> 01:46:49,800
Speaker 1: The three people that understand those references, uh, This one's

1857
01:46:49,840 --> 01:46:50,100
Speaker 1: for you.

1858
01:46:50,460 --> 01:46:54,740
Speaker 8: So first, we have the person you were giggling about, Bollie,

1859
01:46:55,040 --> 01:46:58,940
Speaker 8: co-founder and hipster Nazi impersonator Martin Selner.

1860
01:46:58,970 --> 01:47:02,250
Speaker 4: I haven't thought about Martin Selner in years. I'm so

1861
01:47:02,290 --> 01:47:03,330
Speaker 4: surprised to see him here.

1862
01:47:03,350 --> 01:47:06,590
Speaker 8: Who could have imagined that the country who produced the

1863
01:47:06,630 --> 01:47:10,100
Speaker 8: most iconic Nazi would once again produce a Nazi?

1864
01:47:10,110 --> 01:47:10,580
Speaker 1: The original.

1865
01:47:10,640 --> 01:47:12,020
Speaker 4: The original. The original.

1866
01:47:13,080 --> 01:47:15,960
Speaker 1: At least it's from the original sourcing material, you know?

1867
01:47:15,979 --> 01:47:19,040
Speaker 4: Right, so by under EU laws, he can really be

1868
01:47:19,120 --> 01:47:21,060
Speaker 4: a Nazi, right? Because, you know, it's like champagne.

1869
01:47:21,229 --> 01:47:22,509
Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, it has to come from.

1870
01:47:22,560 --> 01:47:23,770
Speaker 4: It comes from the original source.

1871
01:47:24,070 --> 01:47:24,450
Speaker 11: Exactly.

1872
01:47:24,770 --> 01:47:28,229
Speaker 8: If it's a Nazi stemming from anywhere in North Austria,

1873
01:47:28,250 --> 01:47:33,290
Speaker 8: then we have to call them identitarians. Yep, sparkling identitarianism. Yeah,

1874
01:47:33,330 --> 01:47:36,890
Speaker 8: that's the brand distinction. So, Selder seems to have been

1875
01:47:37,110 --> 01:47:39,930
Speaker 8: pretty far right all of his life, becoming involved in

1876
01:47:39,970 --> 01:47:43,229
Speaker 8: nationalist politics when he was a teenager. And being part

1877
01:47:43,270 --> 01:47:46,690
Speaker 8: of the Austrian neo-Nazi scene. So before we get into

1878
01:47:46,710 --> 01:47:49,229
Speaker 8: the good stuff, I want to read a small paragraph

1879
01:47:49,270 --> 01:47:53,509
Speaker 8: from an article in Zeit Campus. It was published in

1880
01:47:53,510 --> 01:47:58,189
Speaker 8: 2017 before all the significant shit was released. But I

1881
01:47:58,229 --> 01:48:00,350
Speaker 8: had to read this paragraph, so you'll have to listen

1882
01:48:00,390 --> 01:48:03,370
Speaker 8: to it. Martin Sellner, who has a bachelor's degree in

1883
01:48:03,410 --> 01:48:06,599
Speaker 8: philosophy and dropped out of law school, is something like

1884
01:48:06,610 --> 01:48:10,120
Speaker 8: the Justin Bieber and Raynard Langhans of the new right-wing

1885
01:48:10,200 --> 01:48:14,130
Speaker 8: radicalism in one person. A handsome young man with neatly

1886
01:48:14,210 --> 01:48:18,020
Speaker 8: trimmed hair and a dreamy look, and a creative inventor

1887
01:48:18,090 --> 01:48:22,740
Speaker 8: of media effective perhaps even somewhat dangerous protests.

1888
01:48:22,880 --> 01:48:25,689
Speaker 4: You know maybe it's I don't know if it's discouraging

1889
01:48:25,750 --> 01:48:27,910
Speaker 4: or comforting to know that your press do that, too.

1890
01:48:27,939 --> 01:48:31,160
Speaker 4: The European press does that same thing. He's really racist,

1891
01:48:31,200 --> 01:48:33,260
Speaker 4: but in like kind of a sexy way. Like, why

1892
01:48:33,280 --> 01:48:37,120
Speaker 4: do they do that? What if Hitler was hot? He

1893
01:48:37,200 --> 01:48:39,979
Speaker 4: washed his hair and I thought he would be dirty.

1894
01:48:40,620 --> 01:48:43,360
Speaker 1: Like, he does look like a hipster. I mean, I'll

1895
01:48:43,400 --> 01:48:44,150
Speaker 1: give them that one.

1896
01:48:44,790 --> 01:48:47,350
Speaker 4: I mean, it's like that New York Times article. You

1897
01:48:47,590 --> 01:48:50,870
Speaker 4: probably remember this, James. It was in 2017 about Tony Hobater,

1898
01:48:51,410 --> 01:48:53,250
Speaker 4: one of the second in command of the traditional worker party.

1899
01:48:53,270 --> 01:48:53,809
Speaker 1: And it was like, yeah.

1900
01:48:54,310 --> 01:48:56,950
Speaker 4: Just going on and on about like how interesting and

1901
01:48:57,100 --> 01:49:00,480
Speaker 4: just what this interesting working class man kind of handsome

1902
01:49:00,520 --> 01:49:01,900
Speaker 4: like he's a nazi.

1903
01:49:01,820 --> 01:49:05,960
Speaker 1: That's a nazi yeah that's yeah this mysterious exotic nazi

1904
01:49:06,400 --> 01:49:08,640
Speaker 1: or like the amount of like uh richard spent the

1905
01:49:08,660 --> 01:49:11,280
Speaker 1: things but they were like but he wears a waistcoat

1906
01:49:11,620 --> 01:49:14,360
Speaker 1: did you know he does his own bow tie that's

1907
01:49:14,420 --> 01:49:17,309
Speaker 1: a nazi uh yeah that is a type of article

1908
01:49:17,360 --> 01:49:19,720
Speaker 1: that uh It's just like the fentanyl thing. You just

1909
01:49:19,760 --> 01:49:20,769
Speaker 1: can't stop people doing it.

1910
01:49:21,060 --> 01:49:24,740
Speaker 8: Well, I would be impressed with any two-year-old being able

1911
01:49:24,780 --> 01:49:25,760
Speaker 8: to do his own bow tie.

1912
01:49:26,140 --> 01:49:28,940
Speaker 4: Actually, I don't think Richard Spencer can tie a bow tie.

1913
01:49:29,360 --> 01:49:29,900
Speaker 1: Not anymore.

1914
01:49:30,460 --> 01:49:34,059
Speaker 8: Anyway, back to Martin Sellner. At the age of 17,

1915
01:49:34,060 --> 01:49:38,710
Speaker 8: he and another person placed stickers on a synagogue in Baden-by-Wien.

1916
01:49:39,689 --> 01:49:43,050
Speaker 8: Stickers with the text LEGALIZE IT with the letters AJ

1917
01:49:43,110 --> 01:49:43,450
Speaker 8: near it.

1918
01:49:44,110 --> 01:49:48,389
Speaker 1: AJ in this case stands for Arische Jugend. Aryan youth.

1919
01:49:49,189 --> 01:49:55,210
Speaker 1: And other stickers portrayed as swastika. Wow. That's illegal there. Yes.

1920
01:49:55,250 --> 01:49:57,120
Speaker 4: Very state to state. So like in Virginia, it actually

1921
01:49:57,140 --> 01:49:59,080
Speaker 4: would be illegal to place a swastika on a synagogue.

1922
01:49:59,100 --> 01:50:02,040
Speaker 4: It's a class six felony. But I think in Austria

1923
01:50:02,060 --> 01:50:03,880
Speaker 4: and Germany, it's like really illegal.

1924
01:50:04,540 --> 01:50:07,559
Speaker 1: In Germany, any form of Nazi glorification.

1925
01:50:08,310 --> 01:50:09,750
Speaker 4: You're not supposed to be doing that. They're kind of

1926
01:50:09,790 --> 01:50:10,580
Speaker 4: sensitive about it.

1927
01:50:10,790 --> 01:50:12,849
Speaker 8: You could probably find it on YouTube, but there's clips

1928
01:50:12,870 --> 01:50:16,110
Speaker 8: of people just even for fun, doing like a Roman

1929
01:50:16,150 --> 01:50:17,849
Speaker 8: salute in German public and be.

1930
01:50:17,770 --> 01:50:18,540
Speaker 1: Arrested for it.

1931
01:50:19,020 --> 01:50:23,139
Speaker 8: So, yeah, unfortunately, he was a minor because under European law,

1932
01:50:23,380 --> 01:50:26,479
Speaker 8: like 17 years, still a minor. So I think that's

1933
01:50:26,520 --> 01:50:29,269
Speaker 8: why he got off pretty scot-free. He had to do like,

1934
01:50:29,280 --> 01:50:31,269
Speaker 8: I think, 100 hours of community service.

1935
01:50:31,470 --> 01:50:32,490
Speaker 4: And he learned his lesson.

1936
01:50:32,930 --> 01:50:33,210
Speaker 10: Yes.

1937
01:50:33,830 --> 01:50:34,110
Speaker 1: Right?

1938
01:50:34,390 --> 01:50:36,630
Speaker 8: Well, he didn't do anything wrong because this was a

1939
01:50:36,670 --> 01:50:41,030
Speaker 8: response to the conviction of David Irving, a British Holocaust denier.

1940
01:50:41,060 --> 01:50:41,140
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1941
01:50:42,640 --> 01:50:45,660
Speaker 1: Oh, God. There it is.

1942
01:50:47,800 --> 01:50:48,280
Speaker 4: There it is.

1943
01:50:48,300 --> 01:50:53,040
Speaker 1: For anyone not watching, Molly's almost in tears.

1944
01:50:53,640 --> 01:50:54,060
Speaker 4: There it is.

1945
01:50:54,080 --> 01:50:56,660
Speaker 1: We're hitting the highlights here, aren't we?

1946
01:50:56,780 --> 01:50:59,420
Speaker 4: So he doesn't think the Holocaust happened. Because that's what

1947
01:50:59,439 --> 01:51:00,560
Speaker 4: David Irving was in trouble for.

1948
01:51:00,580 --> 01:51:08,550
Speaker 8: Yeah, I think Martin has genuine questions about... what happened

1949
01:51:08,590 --> 01:51:11,050
Speaker 8: during the Holocaust in the same way that Alex Jones

1950
01:51:11,090 --> 01:51:12,670
Speaker 8: had questions about Sandy Hook.

1951
01:51:12,830 --> 01:51:13,890
Speaker 4: He's just asking questions.

1952
01:51:14,270 --> 01:51:14,470
Speaker 3: Yes.

1953
01:51:14,770 --> 01:51:17,670
Speaker 4: Unfortunately, he can't read because those questions have been answered.

1954
01:51:17,710 --> 01:51:21,189
Speaker 8: You only need to open your eyes to see the answers.

1955
01:51:21,470 --> 01:51:23,490
Speaker 4: He lived in Austria. You could go to one of

1956
01:51:23,530 --> 01:51:24,070
Speaker 4: the camps.

1957
01:51:24,290 --> 01:51:29,070
Speaker 1: Well, he actually did, Molly, because... Oh, no. At the

1958
01:51:29,090 --> 01:51:30,990
Speaker 1: tender age... Yeah, I bet that went well.

1959
01:51:31,010 --> 01:51:33,110
Speaker 4: And he behaved very normal there, right?

1960
01:51:33,290 --> 01:51:34,950
Speaker 8: Well, it wasn't a camp, but at the age of 19,

1961
01:51:34,930 --> 01:51:40,170
Speaker 8: he did help organize ways to hinder liberal demonstrations and

1962
01:51:40,330 --> 01:51:46,880
Speaker 8: pilgrimages to Wehrmacht soldiers, brave sites, and hold memorial services

1963
01:51:46,960 --> 01:51:47,360
Speaker 8: for them.

1964
01:51:49,120 --> 01:51:49,479
Speaker 1: Yes.

1965
01:51:51,240 --> 01:51:54,680
Speaker 8: He self-professes that he was a neo-Nazi until 2011. He

1966
01:51:54,720 --> 01:51:56,860
Speaker 8: should have been 22 around that time. As of 2017,

1967
01:51:56,840 --> 01:52:04,050
Speaker 8: he's also banned from carrying weapons. After an incident where

1968
01:52:04,070 --> 01:52:08,130
Speaker 8: he pepper sprayed an alleged far-left activist during a.

1969
01:52:08,130 --> 01:52:11,710
Speaker 1: Fight in Vienna. Which is funny because generally carrying weapons

1970
01:52:11,790 --> 01:52:14,290
Speaker 1: is already illegal here. Yeah, that's what I was going

1971
01:52:14,310 --> 01:52:19,210
Speaker 1: to say. So he double gets to not wear weapons,

1972
01:52:19,570 --> 01:52:20,129
Speaker 1: I suppose.

1973
01:52:20,450 --> 01:52:21,670
Speaker 4: He would get punished twice.

1974
01:52:22,189 --> 01:52:25,830
Speaker 1: Oh, that would be good. Okay, Molly, brace yourself.

1975
01:52:26,560 --> 01:52:34,420
Speaker 8: In early 2018, Martin Sellner received around $ 1, 700, € 1, 500, roughly

1976
01:52:34,520 --> 01:52:40,440
Speaker 8: from Brenton Tarrant. Brenton Tarrant.

1977
01:52:41,240 --> 01:52:42,019
Speaker 4: Received from?

1978
01:52:42,400 --> 01:52:43,759
Speaker 1: Yes, received from.

1979
01:52:44,020 --> 01:52:44,540
Speaker 4: What year?

1980
01:52:45,160 --> 01:52:46,320
Speaker 1: Early 2018.

1981
01:52:46,320 --> 01:52:48,599
Speaker 4: So before the Christchurch mosque shooting.

1982
01:52:49,080 --> 01:52:49,340
Speaker 1: Yes.

1983
01:52:49,500 --> 01:52:51,240
Speaker 4: That's very good.

1984
01:52:52,060 --> 01:52:53,320
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah.

1985
01:52:53,360 --> 01:52:58,299
Speaker 4: So his ideas about immigration... And presumably Islam were pretty similar,

1986
01:52:58,320 --> 01:53:02,060
Speaker 4: I guess. And he was just showing support for a

1987
01:53:02,060 --> 01:53:04,060
Speaker 4: guy whose ideas were very similar to his own. And

1988
01:53:05,090 --> 01:53:08,170
Speaker 4: Martin is carrying out these same ideas by writing this

1989
01:53:08,189 --> 01:53:10,890
Speaker 4: stupid little petition. And what Britton Tarrant did was he

1990
01:53:11,050 --> 01:53:15,390
Speaker 4: murdered more than 50 people in two mosques. Yeah, it's...

1991
01:53:15,890 --> 01:53:19,589
Speaker 4: Very good. That's a cool friend to have.

1992
01:53:20,030 --> 01:53:23,410
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's always a good sign. It gets worse because...

1993
01:53:23,090 --> 01:53:23,990
Speaker 1: It gets worse.

1994
01:53:24,729 --> 01:53:28,309
Speaker 8: I looked it up, but Apparently, Tarrant was like planning

1995
01:53:28,330 --> 01:53:30,710
Speaker 8: this attack for at least two years.

1996
01:53:31,450 --> 01:53:34,900
Speaker 1: Self-proclaimed, by the way. So take that however you will.

1997
01:53:35,229 --> 01:53:35,720
Speaker 1: But that means.

1998
01:53:35,800 --> 01:53:38,420
Speaker 4: So in the planning phases of this mass murder, he thought,

1999
01:53:38,600 --> 01:53:40,260
Speaker 4: part of my plan is going to be giving Martin

2000
01:53:40,300 --> 01:53:46,680
Speaker 4: Sellner $ 1, 500.

2001
01:53:43,180 --> 01:53:43,460
Speaker 5: Yes.

2002
01:53:44,960 --> 01:53:46,080
Speaker 4: He should be banned from New Zealand.

2003
01:53:46,700 --> 01:53:48,179
Speaker 1: We should exile him to the sun.

2004
01:53:48,479 --> 01:53:50,940
Speaker 4: Because New Zealand is pretty sincere about their, about like

2005
01:53:51,140 --> 01:53:54,400
Speaker 4: sort of quarantining... the existence of Brenton Tarrant. Like, it's

2006
01:53:54,410 --> 01:53:56,939
Speaker 4: illegal to possess his manifesto there. Like, they should ban

2007
01:53:56,979 --> 01:53:58,059
Speaker 4: Martin Sellner from the country.

2008
01:53:58,400 --> 01:54:00,759
Speaker 1: Tarrant doesn't strike me as a very wealthy person.

2009
01:54:00,800 --> 01:54:02,540
Speaker 4: That's a significant amount of money for him.

2010
01:54:02,760 --> 01:54:05,950
Speaker 1: Yeah, highly committed to Sellner. It was.

2011
01:54:05,970 --> 01:54:08,150
Speaker 8: And it was also, like, a significant amount of money

2012
01:54:08,710 --> 01:54:12,550
Speaker 8: for Sellner because most donations were, like, on the high end, like,

2013
01:54:12,550 --> 01:54:14,380
Speaker 8: 100 to 100 euros.

2014
01:54:14,939 --> 01:54:15,979
Speaker 4: That should have been a career ender.

2015
01:54:16,430 --> 01:54:18,650
Speaker 8: Like anyone is free to send me money, but if

2016
01:54:18,729 --> 01:54:21,750
Speaker 8: someone like this would send me money and I was

2017
01:54:21,790 --> 01:54:25,229
Speaker 8: very committed to not being called a Nazi, this would

2018
01:54:25,560 --> 01:54:27,760
Speaker 8: be a good time for some introspection.

2019
01:54:27,780 --> 01:54:31,020
Speaker 4: Yeah, if somebody who really thinks you're doing a great

2020
01:54:31,100 --> 01:54:34,340
Speaker 4: job and you have all the same ideas, but what

2021
01:54:34,380 --> 01:54:36,980
Speaker 4: he does with those ideas is one of the largest

2022
01:54:37,620 --> 01:54:39,940
Speaker 4: mass murders in recent years.

2023
01:54:40,220 --> 01:54:41,260
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's... I don't know.

2024
01:54:41,280 --> 01:54:42,700
Speaker 4: I think you got to think about that. I think

2025
01:54:42,720 --> 01:54:43,560
Speaker 4: you got to think about that.

2026
01:54:43,780 --> 01:54:48,790
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. Give you pause for thought. Luckily, Molly, Selner

2027
01:54:48,810 --> 01:54:51,370
Speaker 1: did nothing else to further incriminate himself.

2028
01:54:51,910 --> 01:54:53,210
Speaker 4: And then he was normal after that, right?

2029
01:54:53,670 --> 01:54:57,170
Speaker 8: Yeah, because it's not just this donation that is a

2030
01:54:57,190 --> 01:54:59,590
Speaker 8: connection between the two of them. I'm quoting from a

2031
01:54:59,650 --> 01:55:04,170
Speaker 8: piece by the Austrian outlet ORF. Selner and Tarrant had

2032
01:55:04,210 --> 01:55:07,610
Speaker 8: exchanged praise via email. If you ever come to Vienna,

2033
01:55:07,730 --> 01:55:09,520
Speaker 8: we have to go for a coffee or a beer,

2034
01:55:09,600 --> 01:55:12,140
Speaker 8: says Selner. The same goes for you if you ever

2035
01:55:12,180 --> 01:55:14,790
Speaker 8: come to Australia or New Zealand. We have people in

2036
01:55:14,830 --> 01:55:17,150
Speaker 8: both countries who would like to host you in their home,

2037
01:55:17,350 --> 01:55:18,530
Speaker 8: the Australian replied.

2038
01:55:19,130 --> 01:55:19,350
Speaker 1: We?

2039
01:55:19,930 --> 01:55:25,260
Speaker 8: According to ZIB2, the last email exchange took place in

2040
01:55:25,310 --> 01:55:29,900
Speaker 8: July 2018. One day later, Tarrant booked vehicles and accommodation

2041
01:55:29,980 --> 01:55:34,280
Speaker 8: in Austria. Whether the two actually met each other was,

2042
01:55:34,760 --> 01:55:37,580
Speaker 8: according to that article, being investigated at the time. I

2043
01:55:38,520 --> 01:55:43,220
Speaker 8: haven't been able to find confirmation because Tarrant is silent.

2044
01:55:42,900 --> 01:55:43,400
Speaker 1: On the issue.

2045
01:55:43,670 --> 01:55:46,670
Speaker 4: And that was a few months before the Christchurch shooting.

2046
01:55:47,370 --> 01:55:47,730
Speaker 9: A year.

2047
01:55:48,150 --> 01:55:49,490
Speaker 4: You said it was late 2018?

2048
01:55:49,490 --> 01:55:49,730
Speaker 8: Yeah.

2049
01:55:49,750 --> 01:55:51,530
Speaker 4: Okay, yeah, like nine months, yeah.

2050
01:55:51,970 --> 01:55:55,010
Speaker 8: But anyway, there's a non-zero chance that the two have

2051
01:55:55,050 --> 01:55:58,210
Speaker 8: actually shook hands and met. There's no way to confirm

2052
01:55:58,250 --> 01:56:01,490
Speaker 8: it unless one of them confirms it, which I don't

2053
01:56:01,520 --> 01:56:02,600
Speaker 8: think will happen either way.

2054
01:56:02,900 --> 01:56:08,000
Speaker 4: But still, anything short of a vigorous public disavowal is

2055
01:56:08,020 --> 01:56:08,820
Speaker 4: very incriminating.

2056
01:56:08,840 --> 01:56:12,200
Speaker 1: I don't even think that would be enough. No, it wouldn't.

2057
01:56:12,220 --> 01:56:14,120
Speaker 4: It wouldn't be very convincing to me. but he hasn't

2058
01:56:14,140 --> 01:56:14,580
Speaker 4: even done it.

2059
01:56:14,760 --> 01:56:14,940
Speaker 1: No.

2060
01:56:15,520 --> 01:56:17,860
Speaker 4: So this is just further evidence that this petition of

2061
01:56:17,900 --> 01:56:20,190
Speaker 4: his is violence.

2062
01:56:20,440 --> 01:56:22,089
Speaker 1: Yeah.

2063
01:56:22,320 --> 01:56:25,870
Speaker 4: This is on the sort of spectrum of the same

2064
01:56:26,010 --> 01:56:28,590
Speaker 4: kind of violence, and it is in furtherance of advancing

2065
01:56:28,610 --> 01:56:30,670
Speaker 4: the normalization of that kind of violence.

2066
01:56:31,510 --> 01:56:31,770
Speaker 6: Yes.

2067
01:56:31,990 --> 01:56:35,570
Speaker 8: And also like different kinds of violence, because even though

2068
01:56:35,590 --> 01:56:40,090
Speaker 8: they mentioned like giving people incentives to remigrate, not everyone

2069
01:56:40,150 --> 01:56:40,930
Speaker 8: is going to do that.

2070
01:56:41,210 --> 01:56:43,770
Speaker 4: There is no peaceful way to create an ethnostate. If

2071
01:56:43,810 --> 01:56:47,770
Speaker 4: your goal is an ethnostate, you understand from the outset

2072
01:56:47,810 --> 01:56:51,530
Speaker 4: that there will be mass bloodshed because there's no peaceful ethnostate.

2073
01:56:51,630 --> 01:56:54,250
Speaker 4: It's never happened and it never will. And they know that.

2074
01:56:54,710 --> 01:56:57,300
Speaker 4: And I think it was Heimbach or Spencer who admitted

2075
01:56:57,340 --> 01:57:03,360
Speaker 4: to that under oath. During the United Right civil trial,

2076
01:57:03,380 --> 01:57:05,900
Speaker 4: they were talking. They're like, so when you say, you know,

2077
01:57:05,920 --> 01:57:07,480
Speaker 4: we're going to have a peaceful ethnostate, it must have

2078
01:57:07,500 --> 01:57:10,460
Speaker 4: been Heimbach. So I think it was from the TWP charter.

2079
01:57:11,080 --> 01:57:13,380
Speaker 4: you know, about creating an ethnostate through peaceful means. And

2080
01:57:13,440 --> 01:57:15,920
Speaker 4: he's like, yeah, I know that's not real.

2081
01:57:16,960 --> 01:57:20,870
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's not a thing. I mean, like, at least

2082
01:57:21,710 --> 01:57:24,770
Speaker 1: Selner is pretty open about this, right? Like, Selner was

2083
01:57:24,850 --> 01:57:28,260
Speaker 1: one of the major hosts of the the remigration conference

2084
01:57:28,280 --> 01:57:31,220
Speaker 1: that happened in may of this year that was still

2085
01:57:31,240 --> 01:57:34,120
Speaker 1: this year right yeah yeah the portugal one in portugal

2086
01:57:34,340 --> 01:57:37,690
Speaker 1: yeah like where they explicitly like talked with greg bovino

2087
01:57:37,810 --> 01:57:40,170
Speaker 1: about like how they wanted to do this kind of

2088
01:57:40,250 --> 01:57:43,210
Speaker 1: shit in europe i i've wrote about this at a

2089
01:57:43,230 --> 01:57:46,070
Speaker 1: time but like you can you can see they made

2090
01:57:46,090 --> 01:57:49,400
Speaker 1: the regular media stand outside uh and then harass them

2091
01:57:49,420 --> 01:57:51,500
Speaker 1: with a drone while they're in the car park ah

2092
01:57:51,740 --> 01:57:55,880
Speaker 1: but bovino did do some interviews with some right-wing blogs.

2093
01:57:55,920 --> 01:57:57,560
Speaker 1: I think it seems like he did one interview and

2094
01:57:57,600 --> 01:58:00,360
Speaker 1: multiple people translated it, because I don't think he was

2095
01:58:00,390 --> 01:58:04,330
Speaker 1: talking to Breton nationalists specifically. But you can see them

2096
01:58:04,510 --> 01:58:08,370
Speaker 1: openly discussing this. And this is May of 26, right?

2097
01:58:08,410 --> 01:58:10,980
Speaker 1: This is renee good and alex pretty have been killed

2098
01:58:11,000 --> 01:58:15,320
Speaker 1: a few months before like like this is when ice

2099
01:58:15,680 --> 01:58:19,280
Speaker 1: and cbp were doing their violence most openly and you

2100
01:58:19,310 --> 01:58:23,210
Speaker 1: can see these people including selma personally like literally clapping

2101
01:58:23,250 --> 01:58:24,810
Speaker 1: for this and saying yeah this is what we need

2102
01:58:24,850 --> 01:58:29,680
Speaker 1: we need more shit like this it's just disgusting vile

2103
01:58:29,760 --> 01:58:32,060
Speaker 1: doesn't begin to cut it really.

2104
01:58:31,880 --> 01:58:34,350
Speaker 4: We know what mass deportation looks like there's no way

2105
01:58:34,360 --> 01:58:37,230
Speaker 4: to do it peacefully or bloodlessly no yeah.

2106
01:58:37,430 --> 01:58:40,190
Speaker 8: But that is like there is an attempt to make

2107
01:58:40,330 --> 01:58:43,830
Speaker 8: some sort of veneer possible where that could be if

2108
01:58:43,850 --> 01:58:46,030
Speaker 8: you look at like how they phrased everything in.

2109
01:58:45,950 --> 01:58:50,490
Speaker 4: The act economic incentives right like fuck you yep i

2110
01:58:50,520 --> 01:58:53,220
Speaker 4: looked at this like like like an anthropologist because that

2111
01:58:53,260 --> 01:58:56,950
Speaker 4: is one part of my background and Even if you're

2112
01:58:56,970 --> 01:58:59,190
Speaker 4: going to say, OK, everyone's going to accept those incentives,

2113
01:58:59,600 --> 01:59:03,120
Speaker 4: then we're still talking about people having to move, families

2114
01:59:03,840 --> 01:59:07,760
Speaker 4: broken apart, communities broken apart, people having to upend their

2115
01:59:07,800 --> 01:59:11,470
Speaker 4: entire lives, including the lives of their children. And why

2116
01:59:11,480 --> 01:59:13,490
Speaker 4: did they come here in the first place? What were

2117
01:59:13,510 --> 01:59:16,790
Speaker 4: they fleeing that they risked their lives to come here

2118
01:59:16,910 --> 01:59:20,250
Speaker 4: in the first place? They're just ignoring like just an

2119
01:59:20,450 --> 01:59:23,380
Speaker 4: avalanche of different pieces of structural violence.

2120
01:59:23,400 --> 01:59:23,480
Speaker 1: Yeah.

2121
01:59:24,260 --> 01:59:27,060
Speaker 8: But that's exactly where I'm getting at. Even if you

2122
01:59:27,100 --> 01:59:31,430
Speaker 8: could delude yourself into thinking that these people will leave voluntarily,

2123
01:59:31,440 --> 01:59:35,570
Speaker 8: then think of the violence it is in and of

2124
01:59:35,610 --> 01:59:38,930
Speaker 8: itself of having to uproot so many lives and start

2125
01:59:39,030 --> 01:59:43,070
Speaker 8: all over again from square one at another place. Even

2126
01:59:43,170 --> 01:59:47,490
Speaker 8: if no one resisted and everyone accepted that with stoicism,

2127
01:59:47,950 --> 01:59:49,930
Speaker 8: it's still an inherently violent act.

2128
01:59:50,490 --> 01:59:50,710
Speaker 5: Yeah.

2129
01:59:51,110 --> 01:59:55,960
Speaker 1: It tears communities apart. It tears families apart. There's no

2130
01:59:56,000 --> 01:59:59,380
Speaker 1: way to do this, which is not deliberately hurting people

2131
01:59:59,920 --> 02:00:02,920
Speaker 1: for the crime, in that case, of not being white. Right.

2132
02:00:02,940 --> 02:00:06,820
Speaker 4: And they're not just talking about immigrants. They're talking about

2133
02:00:06,860 --> 02:00:09,810
Speaker 4: everyone who isn't white because they said legal and illegal immigration.

2134
02:00:09,830 --> 02:00:14,750
Speaker 4: They're culturally threatening, culturally disruptive. They're just talking about people

2135
02:00:14,770 --> 02:00:16,790
Speaker 4: they don't think belong. And some of those people they

2136
02:00:16,810 --> 02:00:19,210
Speaker 4: don't think belong have been here for a very long time.

2137
02:00:19,720 --> 02:00:22,260
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they don't belong because of their skin color.

2138
02:00:22,720 --> 02:00:26,640
Speaker 4: So there's nowhere to send them back to, even if

2139
02:00:26,660 --> 02:00:28,140
Speaker 4: they would agree to your terms.

2140
02:00:28,960 --> 02:00:34,590
Speaker 1: Yeah, you can see it in the language of, when

2141
02:00:34,610 --> 02:00:37,070
Speaker 1: we were looking at the tour that they did around Europe,

2142
02:00:37,270 --> 02:00:42,310
Speaker 1: the open use of the Reconquista language, similar words in

2143
02:00:42,350 --> 02:00:47,230
Speaker 1: other Iberian languages, the idea that we will violently expel

2144
02:00:47,270 --> 02:00:51,950
Speaker 1: these people crusader style like the the idea that like

2145
02:00:52,310 --> 02:00:56,120
Speaker 1: uh spain without islam is not something fundamentally different to

2146
02:00:56,160 --> 02:00:58,220
Speaker 1: what it is today right like that that exchange has

2147
02:00:58,260 --> 02:01:01,000
Speaker 1: not happened for as long as there has been spain

2148
02:01:01,080 --> 02:01:02,180
Speaker 1: and before.

2149
02:01:01,740 --> 02:01:06,240
Speaker 4: Right there's no there's no authentic spain to return to

2150
02:01:06,260 --> 02:01:07,580
Speaker 4: the thing you're imagining was never.

2151
02:01:07,520 --> 02:01:11,480
Speaker 1: Real exactly yeah it's laughable to suggest that like you

2152
02:01:11,520 --> 02:01:14,130
Speaker 1: can have some kind of uh like like spain was

2153
02:01:14,190 --> 02:01:18,290
Speaker 1: pure christendom and you know it's silly It really bums

2154
02:01:18,350 --> 02:01:19,990
Speaker 1: me out to see the fucking, I mean, I know

2155
02:01:20,010 --> 02:01:23,810
Speaker 1: that the Catalan right has become particularly relevant and Catalan

2156
02:01:23,850 --> 02:01:27,290
Speaker 1: identitarianism is a big fucking problem. But like, it wasn't

2157
02:01:27,330 --> 02:01:30,970
Speaker 1: always that way. And it's sad to see, like, I

2158
02:01:31,270 --> 02:01:33,230
Speaker 1: think those people have already existed, but they look like

2159
02:01:33,270 --> 02:01:36,360
Speaker 1: everywhere else. They're gaining more of a foothold now. Great stuff.

2160
02:01:37,040 --> 02:01:37,220
Speaker 6: Yeah.

2161
02:01:37,760 --> 02:01:38,920
Speaker 1: Let's go to some funny stuff.

2162
02:01:39,760 --> 02:01:39,920
Speaker 5: Yeah.

2163
02:01:40,300 --> 02:01:41,020
Speaker 4: Give us the good stuff.

2164
02:01:41,060 --> 02:01:42,360
Speaker 1: Yeah.

2165
02:01:42,400 --> 02:01:42,940
Speaker 8: We need that.

2166
02:01:43,480 --> 02:01:43,660
Speaker 6: Yeah.

2167
02:01:44,380 --> 02:01:46,830
Speaker 8: To catch up real quick, like, I think it's safe

2168
02:01:46,870 --> 02:01:51,110
Speaker 8: to say that Tarrant wasn't radicalized further during his last

2169
02:01:51,130 --> 02:01:55,390
Speaker 8: known contact with Sellner and the day he committed his atrocities.

2170
02:01:55,430 --> 02:01:55,690
Speaker 1: Yeah.

2171
02:01:56,130 --> 02:01:59,130
Speaker 8: Like if you're European and there's someone in your orbit

2172
02:01:59,650 --> 02:02:03,430
Speaker 8: who thinks positively of the Save Europe Act, highlight this part.

2173
02:02:03,750 --> 02:02:07,730
Speaker 8: Because two weeks after the shooting of the Christchurch, the

2174
02:02:07,810 --> 02:02:11,450
Speaker 8: Austrian police raided Martin Sellner's house due to his connections

2175
02:02:11,490 --> 02:02:12,030
Speaker 8: with Tarrant.

2176
02:02:12,250 --> 02:02:12,350
Speaker 3: Good.

2177
02:02:12,750 --> 02:02:13,050
Speaker 1: However.

2178
02:02:13,600 --> 02:02:17,940
Speaker 8: The police waited 12 minutes before Selner opened the door.

2179
02:02:18,740 --> 02:02:21,380
Speaker 8: They were knocking at his door for 12 minutes. There

2180
02:02:21,440 --> 02:02:24,720
Speaker 8: is suspicion that he was warned beforehand about the impending raid,

2181
02:02:25,280 --> 02:02:29,440
Speaker 8: as during those 12 minutes, he was deleting emails, screenshots,

2182
02:02:29,510 --> 02:02:32,210
Speaker 8: and other proofs of his connection with Tarrant.

2183
02:02:32,600 --> 02:02:35,080
Speaker 4: And they don't have subpoena power to get those emails

2184
02:02:35,120 --> 02:02:38,060
Speaker 4: from somewhere else? Like deleting an email doesn't make it gone.

2185
02:02:38,080 --> 02:02:39,780
Speaker 1: It doesn't disappear, yeah.

2186
02:02:39,850 --> 02:02:42,370
Speaker 4: And honestly, at that point, deleting the email, you should

2187
02:02:42,390 --> 02:02:43,950
Speaker 4: have been charged with destruction of evidence.

2188
02:02:44,130 --> 02:02:45,790
Speaker 1: Yeah, if the cops are literally knocking on your door

2189
02:02:45,810 --> 02:02:49,470
Speaker 1: and you're deleting emails, A, those emails aren't disappearing.

2190
02:02:49,510 --> 02:02:50,750
Speaker 4: In America, they charge you with that.

2191
02:02:51,130 --> 02:02:53,110
Speaker 1: Well, in America, they wouldn't wait 12 minutes.

2192
02:02:53,270 --> 02:02:54,790
Speaker 4: No, they wouldn't knock.

2193
02:02:54,810 --> 02:02:56,830
Speaker 1: Yeah, your door wouldn't be a door anymore.

2194
02:02:57,510 --> 02:03:00,170
Speaker 4: You would wake up at 3.45 a.m. and they would

2195
02:03:00,210 --> 02:03:02,070
Speaker 4: already be having your computer in their hands.

2196
02:03:03,340 --> 02:03:04,820
Speaker 1: Are you sure? Because he is white.

2197
02:03:05,620 --> 02:03:06,140
Speaker 6: I don't know.

2198
02:03:06,320 --> 02:03:07,860
Speaker 4: A warrant like this, I think they would do a

2199
02:03:07,860 --> 02:03:08,280
Speaker 4: 4 a.m.

2200
02:03:08,320 --> 02:03:08,720
Speaker 7: No-knock.

2201
02:03:09,360 --> 02:03:09,460
Speaker 3: Ah.

2202
02:03:10,260 --> 02:03:12,440
Speaker 1: Cops... They love the 4 a.m.

2203
02:03:12,480 --> 02:03:12,959
Speaker 13: No-knock.

2204
02:03:13,000 --> 02:03:13,760
Speaker 1: Okay. Yeah.

2205
02:03:14,640 --> 02:03:16,360
Speaker 4: I guess they probably don't do that in Europe because

2206
02:03:16,400 --> 02:03:18,640
Speaker 4: not everyone has guns. That's why they do it in America,

2207
02:03:18,660 --> 02:03:19,440
Speaker 4: because everyone has guns.

2208
02:03:20,300 --> 02:03:20,500
Speaker 6: Yeah.

2209
02:03:21,420 --> 02:03:23,780
Speaker 1: Well, they do it because they enjoy doing it.

2210
02:03:24,060 --> 02:03:25,580
Speaker 4: But they say it's because we all have guns.

2211
02:03:26,000 --> 02:03:29,850
Speaker 1: Guns provide them with a justification, yeah. I'm sure it's

2212
02:03:29,970 --> 02:03:31,110
Speaker 1: part of the reason.

2213
02:03:31,680 --> 02:03:35,960
Speaker 8: But there was an investigation within the Austrian Justice Department

2214
02:03:36,000 --> 02:03:38,140
Speaker 8: to see if they could find out who it was

2215
02:03:38,160 --> 02:03:40,960
Speaker 8: that tipped him off, because it can be a coincidence

2216
02:03:40,980 --> 02:03:44,020
Speaker 8: that the very same day he was deleting all that shit.

2217
02:03:44,360 --> 02:03:46,540
Speaker 4: And did they not subpoena the emails from the provider?

2218
02:03:46,560 --> 02:03:47,940
Speaker 4: Because you can get those.

2219
02:03:48,440 --> 02:03:49,120
Speaker 6: They're not gone.

2220
02:03:49,140 --> 02:03:52,820
Speaker 8: I haven't read about that. It didn't come up in

2221
02:03:52,860 --> 02:03:56,510
Speaker 8: what I saw. I'm not sure. Around the same time, though,

2222
02:03:56,870 --> 02:03:58,710
Speaker 8: his travel permit to the U.S.

2223
02:03:58,750 --> 02:03:59,430
Speaker 1: Was canceled.

2224
02:04:00,170 --> 02:04:03,150
Speaker 8: And therefore he could not meet with his fiancée, Brittany Pettibone.

2225
02:04:03,410 --> 02:04:04,089
Speaker 4: That's right.

2226
02:04:04,410 --> 02:04:06,930
Speaker 1: Yeah. They're married. They're married. They have a child.

2227
02:04:06,970 --> 02:04:09,590
Speaker 4: He's married to an American far-right conspiracy theorist.

2228
02:04:09,650 --> 02:04:10,290
Speaker 1: Yeah.

2229
02:04:10,450 --> 02:04:10,970
Speaker 3: I didn't know that.

2230
02:04:11,030 --> 02:04:14,150
Speaker 8: Yeah, white nationalist and conspiracy theorist.

2231
02:04:14,690 --> 02:04:19,190
Speaker 1: Also does some Treadwife content, because, of course... Well, what

2232
02:04:19,220 --> 02:04:20,780
Speaker 1: else would she do now? Of course, yeah.

2233
02:04:20,800 --> 02:04:22,080
Speaker 4: All their avenues are closed.

2234
02:04:22,360 --> 02:04:22,560
Speaker 6: Yeah.

2235
02:04:23,040 --> 02:04:25,540
Speaker 8: And, oh, I forgot this bit. I think this might

2236
02:04:25,580 --> 02:04:28,800
Speaker 8: also help you understand, Molly. Later in 2019, then.

2237
02:04:30,340 --> 02:04:34,520
Speaker 8: Austrian police expanded the searches of Selner's property. However, Selner

2238
02:04:34,600 --> 02:04:37,730
Speaker 8: did file several complaints and a judge ruled that multiple

2239
02:04:37,790 --> 02:04:40,790
Speaker 8: actions taken by Austrian authorities were deemed to be unlawful.

2240
02:04:41,250 --> 02:04:43,090
Speaker 4: Oh, that's right. You guys have like civil rights and stuff.

2241
02:04:43,210 --> 02:04:49,220
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And look what it got us. Maybe

2242
02:04:49,260 --> 02:04:51,920
Speaker 1: the Safe Europe Act isn't so bad after all. Maybe

2243
02:04:51,960 --> 02:04:53,920
Speaker 1: we need to get less civil rights.

2244
02:04:54,520 --> 02:04:55,480
Speaker 4: I'm not signing on to that.

2245
02:04:55,840 --> 02:04:58,790
Speaker 8: I can't help but be cynical. Well, to sum up

2246
02:04:58,850 --> 02:05:03,320
Speaker 8: everything about Martin Sellner, uncool person, would not have a

2247
02:05:03,340 --> 02:05:03,780
Speaker 8: beer with him.

2248
02:05:04,560 --> 02:05:06,860
Speaker 4: I know. And this is like if Richard Spencer was

2249
02:05:06,900 --> 02:05:09,000
Speaker 4: trying to get a constitutional amendment passed.

2250
02:05:09,220 --> 02:05:09,520
Speaker 1: Yeah.

2251
02:05:09,780 --> 02:05:11,900
Speaker 4: You don't have to look further into it. You're like, oh,

2252
02:05:11,940 --> 02:05:14,260
Speaker 4: that's some like dumb Nazi stuff. This is like a

2253
02:05:14,300 --> 02:05:16,690
Speaker 4: washed up Nazi from 10 years ago trying to get

2254
02:05:16,730 --> 02:05:18,970
Speaker 4: back in the news by doing some more dumb Nazi stuff. Like,

2255
02:05:19,310 --> 02:05:21,230
Speaker 4: you don't need to take it seriously. I mean, I

2256
02:05:21,250 --> 02:05:23,350
Speaker 4: need to take it seriously on a broader scale. I mean,

2257
02:05:23,370 --> 02:05:26,010
Speaker 4: you don't need to engage seriously in the text of

2258
02:05:26,050 --> 02:05:30,110
Speaker 4: the petition because it is not sincere. But like, as

2259
02:05:30,230 --> 02:05:31,970
Speaker 4: soon as I saw his name, I was like, oh,

2260
02:05:31,980 --> 02:05:33,420
Speaker 4: that's a washed up Nazi from 10 years ago.

2261
02:05:34,270 --> 02:05:37,140
Speaker 1: He's not washed up anymore. He's been trying very hard

2262
02:05:37,180 --> 02:05:41,020
Speaker 1: with this re-migration stuff to like, to like glom on

2263
02:05:41,140 --> 02:05:43,360
Speaker 1: to this sort of Trumpist.

2264
02:05:44,040 --> 02:05:46,660
Speaker 4: Like this is a known quantity. This isn't a mystery.

2265
02:05:46,880 --> 02:05:47,270
Speaker 10: Yeah.

2266
02:05:47,360 --> 02:05:47,600
Speaker 5: Yeah.

2267
02:05:47,620 --> 02:05:49,390
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, we're not like, oh, this guy has

2268
02:05:49,430 --> 02:05:51,890
Speaker 1: some real concerns about his community and neighborhood.

2269
02:05:51,990 --> 02:05:52,130
Speaker 3: No.

2270
02:05:52,210 --> 02:05:54,450
Speaker 4: And this man is engaging with the political process in

2271
02:05:54,470 --> 02:05:56,530
Speaker 4: a sincere and earnest way. No, it's a Nazi.

2272
02:05:56,570 --> 02:05:56,670
Speaker 1: Yeah.

2273
02:05:57,110 --> 02:05:57,250
Speaker 6: Yeah.

2274
02:05:58,250 --> 02:06:00,510
Speaker 8: Even though he says, like, he might have not been

2275
02:06:00,550 --> 02:06:03,310
Speaker 8: a neo-Nazi if the identitarian movement had existed when he

2276
02:06:03,350 --> 02:06:05,630
Speaker 8: was younger. I don't believe that.

2277
02:06:05,990 --> 02:06:09,610
Speaker 4: The identitarians are white supremacist fascist movement.

2278
02:06:09,760 --> 02:06:12,160
Speaker 1: I love that. If we'd had another thing to call

2279
02:06:12,200 --> 02:06:14,680
Speaker 1: my Nazism, I wouldn't have done the Nazi shit because

2280
02:06:14,740 --> 02:06:17,560
Speaker 1: that's explicitly illegal. Yeah.

2281
02:06:17,800 --> 02:06:19,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, that swastika stuff I used to be into, I

2282
02:06:19,940 --> 02:06:21,930
Speaker 4: still believe all the same stuff, but I wouldn't have

2283
02:06:21,940 --> 02:06:24,110
Speaker 4: used the embarrassing branding if I'd been smarter.

2284
02:06:24,530 --> 02:06:24,950
Speaker 1: Yeah.

2285
02:06:25,210 --> 02:06:26,550
Speaker 6: Fuck off. Yeah.

2286
02:06:27,130 --> 02:06:30,820
Speaker 8: And after this, we're going to speak of the fascist counterpart,

2287
02:06:30,860 --> 02:06:34,560
Speaker 8: the fascist Barbie doll, Eva Laerdingerbroek.

2288
02:06:34,660 --> 02:06:51,410
Speaker 1: Oh, great. Or Eva Heidrich, if that's easier on the tongue. Hi, everyone.

2289
02:06:51,430 --> 02:06:54,210
Speaker 1: This is future Mick.

2290
02:06:55,420 --> 02:06:59,140
Speaker 8: Adding some stuff for less future Mick, who you'll be

2291
02:06:59,180 --> 02:07:03,260
Speaker 8: hearing most of during the podcast. This episode took a

2292
02:07:03,300 --> 02:07:05,790
Speaker 8: pretty long while. I'm not sure how long it will

2293
02:07:05,830 --> 02:07:09,090
Speaker 8: be in post-production, but for my own recording, we talked

2294
02:07:09,130 --> 02:07:12,810
Speaker 8: for almost three hours, which is a lot. Therefore, this

2295
02:07:12,850 --> 02:07:16,300
Speaker 8: episode will be cut into multiple pieces. Make sure to

2296
02:07:16,340 --> 02:07:20,660
Speaker 8: start at part one. I'm sorry for any awkward breaks

2297
02:07:20,980 --> 02:07:24,860
Speaker 8: in the post-production, but... It was very hard to keep that.

2298
02:07:24,760 --> 02:07:27,390
Speaker 1: In mind while we were recording. Hope you enjoy it.

2299
02:07:30,500 --> 02:07:33,060
Speaker 8: And we're back. And we're going to speak of the

2300
02:07:33,100 --> 02:07:34,840
Speaker 8: fascist Barbie doll that Molly.

2301
02:07:34,560 --> 02:07:35,380
Speaker 1: Knows nothing about.

2302
02:07:36,460 --> 02:07:37,140
Speaker 4: Say the name again.

2303
02:07:37,160 --> 02:07:39,680
Speaker 8: Eva Vlaardingerbroek.

2304
02:07:40,220 --> 02:07:42,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, the American mouth simply can't make those sounds.

2305
02:07:42,420 --> 02:07:44,620
Speaker 1: Eva Heidrich. You can do that.

2306
02:07:45,920 --> 02:07:48,980
Speaker 8: Because, you know, we already compared it to the Nuremberg Law.

2307
02:07:49,020 --> 02:07:51,320
Speaker 8: So we might as well drag the Heidrich and the

2308
02:07:51,360 --> 02:07:54,590
Speaker 8: Wannsee conference in it as well. So I wouldn't be

2309
02:07:54,630 --> 02:07:56,950
Speaker 8: surprised if this was written at a lake house somewhere.

2310
02:07:57,670 --> 02:08:02,600
Speaker 8: So Eva Vlaringenbroek is this. shield maiden of the far right.

2311
02:08:03,060 --> 02:08:05,700
Speaker 8: That's an actual title she uses in her Twitter bio.

2312
02:08:07,300 --> 02:08:07,640
Speaker 1: Great.

2313
02:08:08,360 --> 02:08:08,980
Speaker 4: That sucks.

2314
02:08:09,760 --> 02:08:12,560
Speaker 8: It was used as an insult by a columnist and

2315
02:08:12,620 --> 02:08:15,420
Speaker 8: she cleverly adopted it into her brand.

2316
02:08:16,000 --> 02:08:19,100
Speaker 4: That's not a very good insult. Like, of course she

2317
02:08:19,140 --> 02:08:19,740
Speaker 4: liked that.

2318
02:08:20,300 --> 02:08:22,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you're giving her what she wants.

2319
02:08:22,780 --> 02:08:27,180
Speaker 8: I'm not going to defend our columnist, ever. I should

2320
02:08:27,220 --> 02:08:30,840
Speaker 8: note that she is significantly more, like, clean than our

2321
02:08:30,880 --> 02:08:31,839
Speaker 8: boy Martin Sellner.

2322
02:08:31,860 --> 02:08:33,900
Speaker 4: No swastika-related arrests?

2323
02:08:34,160 --> 02:08:35,980
Speaker 1: Exactly. Exactly.

2324
02:08:36,360 --> 02:08:40,620
Speaker 8: Or, like, any ties to neo-Nazis or figures as unsavory as.

2325
02:08:40,580 --> 02:08:41,900
Speaker 1: The Christchurch shooter.

2326
02:08:42,340 --> 02:08:43,040
Speaker 4: That we know about.

2327
02:08:43,360 --> 02:08:44,220
Speaker 1: That we know about.

2328
02:08:44,900 --> 02:08:48,290
Speaker 8: She does have a master's in encyclopedia and philosophy of law.

2329
02:08:49,160 --> 02:08:51,040
Speaker 8: During her studies, she became more.

2330
02:08:50,940 --> 02:08:55,940
Speaker 1: Active with the Dutch conspiracy slash fascist party Forum for Democracy.

2331
02:08:56,830 --> 02:08:59,510
Speaker 1: With them, she also partook in an internship at their

2332
02:08:59,630 --> 02:09:03,170
Speaker 1: faction in Brussels. After that, she worked as a lecturer,

2333
02:09:03,730 --> 02:09:06,010
Speaker 1: which she later gave up to join the Dutch parliament

2334
02:09:06,390 --> 02:09:09,890
Speaker 1: as a member of said fascist party. She would later

2335
02:09:09,970 --> 02:09:13,370
Speaker 1: quit this after a political fallout with party leader Thierry

2336
02:09:13,470 --> 02:09:17,130
Speaker 1: Baudet and the League of Group Chats of their youth party,

2337
02:09:17,170 --> 02:09:20,130
Speaker 1: which were distasteful, to say the least.

2338
02:09:20,850 --> 02:09:25,480
Speaker 8: To women, to minorities. I don't need to explain how

2339
02:09:25,500 --> 02:09:28,140
Speaker 8: this group chat looked like. You can make an educated

2340
02:09:28,160 --> 02:09:29,260
Speaker 8: guess and be correct.

2341
02:09:29,700 --> 02:09:33,080
Speaker 1: I mean, any time the group chat to a right

2342
02:09:33,280 --> 02:09:35,480
Speaker 1: party youth group get leaked, it's not going to be

2343
02:09:35,520 --> 02:09:36,240
Speaker 1: wholesome shit.

2344
02:09:36,300 --> 02:09:36,800
Speaker 14: Is it?

2345
02:09:36,840 --> 02:09:38,420
Speaker 4: No, that happens here every now and again. We know

2346
02:09:38,440 --> 02:09:39,080
Speaker 4: what those look like.

2347
02:09:39,140 --> 02:09:43,400
Speaker 1: It happens everywhere. Don't be in chats at all.

2348
02:09:43,540 --> 02:09:45,260
Speaker 8: Don't do it.

2349
02:09:45,320 --> 02:09:46,220
Speaker 1: A small detour.

2350
02:09:46,660 --> 02:09:48,920
Speaker 8: A few months ago, there was like on the subreddit,

2351
02:09:49,280 --> 02:09:52,420
Speaker 8: a discussion on which Dutch bastard should be covered. And

2352
02:09:52,480 --> 02:09:54,060
Speaker 8: everyone said it should be Geert Wilders.

2353
02:09:54,820 --> 02:09:55,690
Speaker 1: Okay.

2354
02:09:55,730 --> 02:09:56,440
Speaker 4: That was what name?

2355
02:09:56,510 --> 02:09:57,610
Speaker 1: Geert Wilders.

2356
02:09:58,270 --> 02:09:59,310
Speaker 4: That's how you say that?

2357
02:09:59,710 --> 02:10:03,950
Speaker 1: Yes. Yeah. Go give it a cry, Molly. Go see

2358
02:10:03,970 --> 02:10:05,230
Speaker 1: where you, where were you at with it?

2359
02:10:05,250 --> 02:10:05,370
Speaker 6: No.

2360
02:10:05,680 --> 02:10:07,180
Speaker 1: Okay. We've lost Molly.

2361
02:10:07,600 --> 02:10:12,270
Speaker 8: But anyway, like, I strongly disagree with that because Wilders

2362
02:10:12,310 --> 02:10:15,070
Speaker 8: is also like an overt fascist, but he's not funny.

2363
02:10:15,390 --> 02:10:18,070
Speaker 8: Like there's no funny behind the bastards to do about it.

2364
02:10:18,550 --> 02:10:20,910
Speaker 4: Sometimes there's no jokes you could make about the fascist.

2365
02:10:21,110 --> 02:10:21,290
Speaker 5: No.

2366
02:10:21,970 --> 02:10:24,680
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, the comedy about him lends itself to

2367
02:10:24,720 --> 02:10:25,720
Speaker 1: a visual medium.

2368
02:10:26,660 --> 02:10:26,840
Speaker 6: Yeah.

2369
02:10:26,900 --> 02:10:29,140
Speaker 1: That's what I will say. He looks like Sonic the

2370
02:10:29,180 --> 02:10:30,020
Speaker 1: fucking hedgehog.

2371
02:10:30,200 --> 02:10:30,340
Speaker 6: Yeah.

2372
02:10:30,780 --> 02:10:33,700
Speaker 8: But Cherry Mother is really funny. Like he's also a fascist,

2373
02:10:33,760 --> 02:10:36,970
Speaker 8: but he was assaulted in public multiple times. He was

2374
02:10:37,010 --> 02:10:38,470
Speaker 8: hit in the face with an umbrella.

2375
02:10:38,490 --> 02:10:38,570
Speaker 6: Yeah.

2376
02:10:39,760 --> 02:10:44,350
Speaker 1: That's a European way of going about it. I respect that. Yeah,

2377
02:10:44,450 --> 02:10:46,290
Speaker 1: I think it was a Ukrainian national.

2378
02:10:46,310 --> 02:10:47,970
Speaker 4: They don't have guns. They have to be creative.

2379
02:10:47,990 --> 02:10:52,500
Speaker 8: It was caught on tape. So that's really funny. You

2380
02:10:52,520 --> 02:10:55,920
Speaker 8: can make a more funny episode about him. He had

2381
02:10:55,960 --> 02:10:59,660
Speaker 8: a motion in our parliament for the humane treatment of

2382
02:10:59,840 --> 02:11:02,130
Speaker 8: Andrew Tate when he was arrested in Romania.

2383
02:11:02,150 --> 02:11:04,540
Speaker 1: Yeah. Okay.

2384
02:11:04,840 --> 02:11:07,620
Speaker 4: Because he's always been, I'm sure, a passionate defender of

2385
02:11:07,690 --> 02:11:10,730
Speaker 4: prisoner civil rights, right? That's something he's always been interested in.

2386
02:11:11,010 --> 02:11:13,830
Speaker 1: Loves to advocate. He was also very passionate about consent,

2387
02:11:13,850 --> 02:11:16,290
Speaker 1: saying that when women say no, they actually want you

2388
02:11:16,350 --> 02:11:17,110
Speaker 1: to go on.

2389
02:11:17,330 --> 02:11:17,710
Speaker 6: Oh, dear.

2390
02:11:18,030 --> 02:11:20,850
Speaker 1: Also on camera. So, great figure.

2391
02:11:21,130 --> 02:11:24,910
Speaker 8: Anyway, details aside, during the waves, this fallout between Ava

2392
02:11:24,980 --> 02:11:29,500
Speaker 8: and Baudet was caused. He would retaliate by repeatedly mentioning

2393
02:11:29,540 --> 02:11:33,460
Speaker 8: their relationship publicly. which forced her hand to denounce it

2394
02:11:33,560 --> 02:11:36,400
Speaker 8: as being just a few dates after which their fling ended.

2395
02:11:36,420 --> 02:11:41,540
Speaker 8: Eva would later tell Das Telegraf, Cherry knew how scared

2396
02:11:41,580 --> 02:11:43,770
Speaker 8: I was of this coming out. If it gets out,

2397
02:11:44,010 --> 02:11:47,290
Speaker 8: you don't owe anything you've achieved to yourself. What I

2398
02:11:47,330 --> 02:11:50,550
Speaker 8: feared happened. I was the resentful ex, and even more

2399
02:11:50,610 --> 02:11:52,610
Speaker 8: blatant sexist remarks poured in.

2400
02:11:53,510 --> 02:11:56,720
Speaker 4: Oh no. Did she not know sexism could happen to her?

2401
02:11:56,740 --> 02:11:59,860
Speaker 4: This happens to far-right influencers all the time. Like, it

2402
02:11:59,880 --> 02:12:02,890
Speaker 4: happened to Lauren Southern, and maybe Brittany Pettibone too, but

2403
02:12:02,930 --> 02:12:05,890
Speaker 4: like these women in this movement, they're like, I didn't

2404
02:12:05,910 --> 02:12:08,550
Speaker 4: know they were going to be sexist to me. Girl,

2405
02:12:08,570 --> 02:12:09,610
Speaker 4: you're at a Nazi party.

2406
02:12:10,030 --> 02:12:13,250
Speaker 8: Maybe I'm giving her too much sympathy, but.

2407
02:12:13,610 --> 02:12:14,760
Speaker 1: You are. Probably.

2408
02:12:15,180 --> 02:12:17,740
Speaker 8: But like this entire piece is heavily colored by my

2409
02:12:17,780 --> 02:12:19,920
Speaker 8: own opinion, but I'm also trying to sometimes be a

2410
02:12:19,960 --> 02:12:23,940
Speaker 8: bit more distant with it. But clearly she received some

2411
02:12:23,960 --> 02:12:27,480
Speaker 8: pretty harsh comments that were dripping with sexism during the fallout.

2412
02:12:27,580 --> 02:12:29,600
Speaker 4: No doubt that she did. I'm not saying that's good

2413
02:12:29,620 --> 02:12:32,520
Speaker 4: or that it's acceptable, but like, What did you think

2414
02:12:32,580 --> 02:12:35,320
Speaker 4: would happen when you laid down with dogs?

2415
02:12:35,440 --> 02:12:38,440
Speaker 1: That is very fair, but I also want to say

2416
02:12:38,860 --> 02:12:40,270
Speaker 1: her womanhood was very.

2417
02:12:40,350 --> 02:12:42,650
Speaker 4: I just want to exterminate people I don't like. I

2418
02:12:42,690 --> 02:12:45,010
Speaker 4: didn't know anyone would be mean to me. I guess

2419
02:12:45,030 --> 02:12:45,550
Speaker 4: I'm just mean.

2420
02:12:46,950 --> 02:12:48,010
Speaker 1: Your words, not mine.

2421
02:12:49,810 --> 02:12:53,580
Speaker 8: I'm still trying to have a... For this specific instance,

2422
02:12:53,620 --> 02:12:58,060
Speaker 8: have some sort of sympathy for her because... Her relationship

2423
02:12:58,120 --> 02:13:01,350
Speaker 8: and her womanhood were essentially, like, weaponized against her in

2424
02:13:01,390 --> 02:13:03,370
Speaker 8: a way to incite that sexism.

2425
02:13:04,230 --> 02:13:06,970
Speaker 4: And she would know nothing about weaponizing people's identities against

2426
02:13:07,010 --> 02:13:09,390
Speaker 4: them to produce any kind of violent result?

2427
02:13:09,510 --> 02:13:12,630
Speaker 8: No, like, she's a horrible person with horrible politics. Like,

2428
02:13:12,730 --> 02:13:13,970
Speaker 8: I'm not denying any of that, but.

2429
02:13:14,010 --> 02:13:15,690
Speaker 4: No, I'm not saying it's good or acceptable that these

2430
02:13:15,710 --> 02:13:18,840
Speaker 4: things happen to these women. It's just, like, what... Do

2431
02:13:18,860 --> 02:13:22,400
Speaker 4: you not see that that's what you're doing to others?

2432
02:13:22,520 --> 02:13:25,580
Speaker 1: I think there isn't enough introspection for that, but.

2433
02:13:26,180 --> 02:13:27,320
Speaker 4: No, there's not, no.

2434
02:13:27,440 --> 02:13:28,220
Speaker 6: Yeah, no.

2435
02:13:28,560 --> 02:13:30,460
Speaker 4: Well, no, because they think that bad things should not

2436
02:13:30,500 --> 02:13:33,780
Speaker 4: happen to them because they're fully human and the people

2437
02:13:33,800 --> 02:13:34,760
Speaker 4: they're doing it to aren't.

2438
02:13:35,640 --> 02:13:38,210
Speaker 1: Right. Like, if you're going to draw lines around humanity,

2439
02:13:38,230 --> 02:13:40,950
Speaker 1: don't find yourself surprised when the line is drawn and

2440
02:13:40,990 --> 02:13:41,890
Speaker 1: you're on the other side of it.

2441
02:13:42,490 --> 02:13:45,570
Speaker 4: And, like, the underpinning of so many of these ideas

2442
02:13:46,910 --> 02:13:49,850
Speaker 4: heavily relies on misogyny, too. Like, you know, you're not

2443
02:13:49,870 --> 02:13:52,450
Speaker 4: just going to do fascism and white supremacy and xenophobia

2444
02:13:52,800 --> 02:13:56,280
Speaker 4: and immigration restriction without... Those guys are misogynists too, babe.

2445
02:13:56,760 --> 02:13:57,840
Speaker 1: That's very true.

2446
02:13:58,540 --> 02:14:01,480
Speaker 8: I think I was mostly just trying to find my

2447
02:14:01,560 --> 02:14:05,500
Speaker 8: own moral line in there. Like, two horrible people, but still,

2448
02:14:05,560 --> 02:14:05,780
Speaker 8: I would.

2449
02:14:06,720 --> 02:14:07,250
Speaker 1: Somewhere... Nah.

2450
02:14:08,550 --> 02:14:09,950
Speaker 4: I'm just always surprised they're surprised.

2451
02:14:11,010 --> 02:14:14,270
Speaker 8: It's the line, I couldn't believe the leopards eating my

2452
02:14:14,330 --> 02:14:19,050
Speaker 8: face happened after voting for the leopards eating faces party.

2453
02:14:19,210 --> 02:14:21,830
Speaker 8: For instance, the way I still think it's fucked up

2454
02:14:21,980 --> 02:14:25,440
Speaker 8: that it happened that way to her. And maybe sympathy

2455
02:14:25,500 --> 02:14:28,560
Speaker 8: is going too far, but I think that's for each

2456
02:14:28,580 --> 02:14:32,420
Speaker 8: to their own to decide upon. But to go back

2457
02:14:32,460 --> 02:14:35,980
Speaker 8: more to funnier stuff, my first breakthrough in political activism

2458
02:14:36,020 --> 02:14:39,790
Speaker 8: was in December of 2019, when the Dutch newspaper Het

2459
02:14:39,850 --> 02:14:45,190
Speaker 8: Parool published that opinion piece that we mentioned earlier, criticizing

2460
02:14:45,230 --> 02:14:48,670
Speaker 8: her anti-feminist speech at the Forum for Democracy Party Congress.

2461
02:14:49,270 --> 02:14:51,690
Speaker 8: Her disdain for modern feminism could also be seen in

2462
02:14:51,730 --> 02:14:55,710
Speaker 8: her master thesis titled The contractualization of sex in the

2463
02:14:55,750 --> 02:14:56,470
Speaker 8: Me Too era.

2464
02:14:56,670 --> 02:14:59,850
Speaker 4: If you think feminism is damaging to society, why do

2465
02:14:59,890 --> 02:15:02,310
Speaker 4: you think you deserve the benefits of feminism?

2466
02:15:04,410 --> 02:15:04,910
Speaker 1: Because.

2467
02:15:05,930 --> 02:15:06,450
Speaker 4: Because.

2468
02:15:06,970 --> 02:15:07,470
Speaker 1: Probably.

2469
02:15:07,490 --> 02:15:11,750
Speaker 8: And this is where she gets funny again a bit.

2470
02:15:12,210 --> 02:15:15,680
Speaker 8: Because unfortunately, I couldn't find her full thesis because I

2471
02:15:15,720 --> 02:15:18,940
Speaker 8: had looked for it. I was curious because she completed

2472
02:15:18,960 --> 02:15:20,780
Speaker 8: it with honors. So I was like, okay, I want

2473
02:15:20,820 --> 02:15:22,100
Speaker 8: to know what this looks like.

2474
02:15:22,120 --> 02:15:22,620
Speaker 1: Maybe it's good.

2475
02:15:23,080 --> 02:15:24,340
Speaker 4: Change my mind, Eva.

2476
02:15:24,480 --> 02:15:27,940
Speaker 8: Yeah, share it on Twitter. She did, however, post an

2477
02:15:27,980 --> 02:15:31,440
Speaker 8: essay in English on her Twitter account, which drew heavily

2478
02:15:31,720 --> 02:15:35,970
Speaker 8: on her thesis. And to be a bit fair and balanced,

2479
02:15:36,530 --> 02:15:37,490
Speaker 8: it's not horrible.

2480
02:15:37,870 --> 02:15:40,010
Speaker 4: I'll be the judge of that. Let me see it.

2481
02:15:40,450 --> 02:15:43,710
Speaker 8: Well, for the most part, it's just concerns about a social.

2482
02:15:45,280 --> 02:15:48,320
Speaker 1: structure such as consent being codified into.

2483
02:15:48,120 --> 02:15:50,370
Speaker 4: Law so she's saying rape should be legal.

2484
02:15:50,350 --> 02:15:53,930
Speaker 8: That that's not what she is explicitly saying but she

2485
02:15:53,950 --> 02:15:57,450
Speaker 8: does seem to see consent as exclusively like a contract

2486
02:15:57,490 --> 02:15:59,650
Speaker 8: between two people rather than like an.

2487
02:15:59,650 --> 02:16:02,610
Speaker 4: Agreement i mean their petition is explicitly saying something very

2488
02:16:02,670 --> 02:16:04,570
Speaker 4: different than what it actually means i don't think we

2489
02:16:04,590 --> 02:16:07,390
Speaker 4: have to take these people at their word oh yeah

2490
02:16:07,990 --> 02:16:11,190
Speaker 4: i'm not gonna take a fascist at her word that's

2491
02:16:11,230 --> 02:16:12,750
Speaker 4: not what i'm in the business of doing.

2492
02:16:13,030 --> 02:16:16,670
Speaker 1: Now I'm feeling like I'm very uncritical.

2493
02:16:16,690 --> 02:16:19,190
Speaker 4: No, you're just much nicer than I am.

2494
02:16:19,810 --> 02:16:21,300
Speaker 1: Again, your words.

2495
02:16:22,080 --> 02:16:24,100
Speaker 4: And you live in a country with much stricter libel laws.

2496
02:16:24,980 --> 02:16:26,740
Speaker 1: That's also true.

2497
02:16:27,040 --> 02:16:30,620
Speaker 8: I think there should be room for good faith debate

2498
02:16:30,780 --> 02:16:34,279
Speaker 8: on this codification into law and possible side effects.

2499
02:16:34,300 --> 02:16:35,379
Speaker 4: Sure, but she doesn't.

2500
02:16:35,400 --> 02:16:37,080
Speaker 1: No, no, she absolutely doesn't.

2501
02:16:38,100 --> 02:16:41,320
Speaker 4: The existence of good faith debate Sure, I'll concede to that.

2502
02:16:41,379 --> 02:16:43,440
Speaker 4: We can have a good faith debate on the legal

2503
02:16:43,580 --> 02:16:47,360
Speaker 4: structure of consent. I wouldn't say there should be no

2504
02:16:47,410 --> 02:16:49,850
Speaker 4: legal structure for it because that just means rape is legal.

2505
02:16:50,470 --> 02:16:52,770
Speaker 4: But the thing is, is I'm not going to engage

2506
02:16:52,810 --> 02:16:55,210
Speaker 4: in a good faith debate with her because she isn't.

2507
02:16:55,790 --> 02:16:58,430
Speaker 4: Because she isn't and she knows it. And so by

2508
02:16:58,490 --> 02:17:02,769
Speaker 4: allowing room for good faith debate with people like Eva

2509
02:17:02,790 --> 02:17:07,060
Speaker 4: for blah, blah, blah, blah, You are opening the door

2510
02:17:07,760 --> 02:17:11,459
Speaker 4: for this, right? You are making room for her bad

2511
02:17:11,500 --> 02:17:15,019
Speaker 4: faith argument that is essentially just rape should be legal,

2512
02:17:15,500 --> 02:17:17,060
Speaker 4: but it shouldn't happen to nice girls like me.

2513
02:17:17,120 --> 02:17:17,440
Speaker 3: Okay.

2514
02:17:17,760 --> 02:17:21,810
Speaker 1: Well, yeah. It's not bad faith. It ends in bad shit.

2515
02:17:21,870 --> 02:17:22,570
Speaker 4: No, it's bad faith.

2516
02:17:22,730 --> 02:17:25,330
Speaker 1: It is. It is explicitly in bad faith.

2517
02:17:25,350 --> 02:17:29,720
Speaker 8: Molly, hold your horses because I've got here like the

2518
02:17:29,770 --> 02:17:33,000
Speaker 8: last one and a half paragraphs of that piece. As

2519
02:17:33,120 --> 02:17:36,560
Speaker 8: kind as I was for like the preceding paragraphs, I'm

2520
02:17:36,580 --> 02:17:38,320
Speaker 8: going to be as blunt about the last one.

2521
02:17:38,840 --> 02:17:40,640
Speaker 1: It's absolute bonkers.

2522
02:17:41,180 --> 02:17:42,080
Speaker 4: I'm looking forward to it.

2523
02:17:42,600 --> 02:17:44,959
Speaker 1: This is not like even going from zero to a hundred.

2524
02:17:45,000 --> 02:17:45,310
Speaker 1: This is.

2525
02:17:45,980 --> 02:17:48,990
Speaker 8: zero to a thousand in the span of a couple sentences.

2526
02:17:49,810 --> 02:17:52,850
Speaker 8: Quoting this from her essay, which was posted on Twitter

2527
02:17:53,410 --> 02:17:57,109
Speaker 8: on April 29th, 2026, for those who want to see

2528
02:17:57,150 --> 02:18:00,709
Speaker 8: it for themselves. To compensate for the legal uncertainty this

2529
02:18:00,770 --> 02:18:03,920
Speaker 8: law will create, people will seek refuge in contracts, which

2530
02:18:03,950 --> 02:18:06,800
Speaker 8: can now simply be downloaded via mobile apps such as

2531
02:18:07,060 --> 02:18:11,050
Speaker 8: LegalFling and have a direct legal effect. Although the desire

2532
02:18:11,070 --> 02:18:14,090
Speaker 8: to create a consent culture may stem from good intentions,

2533
02:18:14,590 --> 02:18:18,170
Speaker 8: this consent culture has unforeseen consequences that pose a danger

2534
02:18:18,209 --> 02:18:19,570
Speaker 8: to romance and freedom.

2535
02:18:19,970 --> 02:18:23,529
Speaker 1: Oh, fuck off. Okay. Always interesting to see what the

2536
02:18:23,570 --> 02:18:29,790
Speaker 1: libertarians want. I'm using libertarian in the American sense here, right?

2537
02:18:29,910 --> 02:18:34,029
Speaker 1: Want the states to not take an interest in. This

2538
02:18:34,090 --> 02:18:36,250
Speaker 1: same person who wants the state to take an interest

2539
02:18:36,290 --> 02:18:40,310
Speaker 1: in tearing people's lives apart. doesn't think the state belongs

2540
02:18:40,470 --> 02:18:42,629
Speaker 1: in determining what is and is not consent because we

2541
02:18:42,670 --> 02:18:46,110
Speaker 1: have an app for that. Fuck off. James, I'll heavily

2542
02:18:46,129 --> 02:18:47,070
Speaker 1: disagree with you here.

2543
02:18:47,450 --> 02:18:50,390
Speaker 8: Nothing is more romantic than when I want to engage

2544
02:18:50,490 --> 02:18:54,510
Speaker 8: in some adult fun with a partner than having an

2545
02:18:54,730 --> 02:18:57,770
Speaker 8: app to sign a literal contract on what is and

2546
02:18:57,830 --> 02:18:58,820
Speaker 8: isn't acceptable.

2547
02:18:59,080 --> 02:19:02,240
Speaker 1: You know AI drafts a contract. You know chat GPT

2548
02:19:02,260 --> 02:19:04,099
Speaker 1: is getting up in there and putting some weird shit

2549
02:19:04,120 --> 02:19:04,940
Speaker 1: in your contract.

2550
02:19:05,060 --> 02:19:06,560
Speaker 4: And this is such a tired thing.

2551
02:19:06,600 --> 02:19:06,810
Speaker 6: Like, I.

2552
02:19:07,310 --> 02:19:08,850
Speaker 4: you know, showing my age here, but when I was

2553
02:19:08,870 --> 02:19:11,769
Speaker 4: in college 20 years ago and we had these, you know,

2554
02:19:11,850 --> 02:19:15,290
Speaker 4: mandatory trainings on like, what is consent? Like, don't get

2555
02:19:15,350 --> 02:19:18,529
Speaker 4: raped at a party. And guys would say, like these

2556
02:19:18,530 --> 02:19:20,379
Speaker 4: 18 year old guys would say shit like, oh, I'm

2557
02:19:20,400 --> 02:19:24,030
Speaker 4: going to have her sign a contract. This is like tired,

2558
02:19:24,350 --> 02:19:27,060
Speaker 4: dumb shit that guys who rape people say.

2559
02:19:27,080 --> 02:19:30,920
Speaker 1: I wasn't even done, but I'm glad for your passion, Molly.

2560
02:19:30,959 --> 02:19:31,780
Speaker 4: Okay, carry on.

2561
02:19:32,300 --> 02:19:34,920
Speaker 8: Suppose such a contract is signed. How do we know

2562
02:19:34,980 --> 02:19:37,709
Speaker 8: for certain that it was not signed under coercion? or,

2563
02:19:37,770 --> 02:19:40,890
Speaker 8: for example, under the influence of alcohol and or drugs?

2564
02:19:41,470 --> 02:19:42,770
Speaker 8: And what if a woman signs that.

2565
02:19:42,850 --> 02:19:46,980
Speaker 4: Right, those are the same questions about consent we already have. Coercion, alcohol.

2566
02:19:47,420 --> 02:19:49,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, but now we have an app. But now there's

2567
02:19:49,300 --> 02:19:52,900
Speaker 1: an app. Yeah, so then to solve all of those questions, right?

2568
02:19:52,920 --> 02:19:55,820
Speaker 8: Yeah, now it's about the legality of such a contract

2569
02:19:55,860 --> 02:19:57,340
Speaker 8: instead of the legality of.

2570
02:19:57,480 --> 02:19:59,100
Speaker 4: Instead of the legality of rape.

2571
02:19:59,700 --> 02:20:02,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, you've made a get out of jail free card app.

2572
02:20:03,260 --> 02:20:05,759
Speaker 1: That's what she seems to think. That's literally the phrase

2573
02:20:05,800 --> 02:20:08,800
Speaker 1: she uses. What if a woman signs at 11 p.m.

2574
02:20:08,840 --> 02:20:12,350
Speaker 1: but changes her mind at 11.10 p.m. and her partner

2575
02:20:12,450 --> 02:20:14,629
Speaker 1: acts in bad faith? Then he rapes her and he

2576
02:20:14,650 --> 02:20:17,369
Speaker 1: has a get out of jail free card. After all,

2577
02:20:17,790 --> 02:20:22,470
Speaker 1: she signed a contract, so no one will believe her anymore, right? Oh, wait,

2578
02:20:22,490 --> 02:20:25,080
Speaker 1: so she's not proposing the app contract. No, no, no.

2579
02:20:25,459 --> 02:20:26,560
Speaker 4: She's saying it wouldn't work.

2580
02:20:27,020 --> 02:20:28,080
Speaker 1: Oh, my apologies.

2581
02:20:28,400 --> 02:20:30,460
Speaker 4: So she's saying there just should be no legal concept

2582
02:20:30,500 --> 02:20:31,560
Speaker 4: of consent at all.

2583
02:20:31,660 --> 02:20:34,560
Speaker 1: She's just against the concept of consent. I mean, one

2584
02:20:34,620 --> 02:20:38,009
Speaker 1: consent can be withdrawn. It's like it's not the fucking

2585
02:20:38,070 --> 02:20:42,320
Speaker 1: like end game argument that. a 12-year-old Reddit user might

2586
02:20:42,360 --> 02:20:44,440
Speaker 1: think it is. Like, I was still not done with this.

2587
02:20:44,459 --> 02:20:45,920
Speaker 4: This is an essay a moron would write.

2588
02:20:46,020 --> 02:20:49,450
Speaker 1: Oh, oh, Molly, Molly. This is the sort of shit that, like,

2589
02:20:50,670 --> 02:20:55,030
Speaker 1: I have graded some essays of, like, undergraduate and even, like,

2590
02:20:55,129 --> 02:20:58,270
Speaker 1: postgraduate students, and, like, this is the kind of puerile

2591
02:20:58,330 --> 02:21:02,720
Speaker 1: shit that, like, anyone who's going through, like, a serious

2592
02:21:02,780 --> 02:21:05,580
Speaker 1: attempt to be a serious writer should be fucking, like,

2593
02:21:06,900 --> 02:21:08,220
Speaker 1: I know, like, whack-a-mole.

2594
02:21:08,560 --> 02:21:11,430
Speaker 4: Like, All of the points in this essay came up

2595
02:21:11,790 --> 02:21:15,090
Speaker 4: in my mandatory don't rate people training in college in 2007.

2596
02:21:15,090 --> 02:21:19,330
Speaker 1: Yeah, like this is like the logic of like a

2597
02:21:19,390 --> 02:21:21,850
Speaker 1: frat guy trying to be funny.

2598
02:21:22,730 --> 02:21:26,630
Speaker 8: First, she sees consent as like exclusively contractual. And I

2599
02:21:26,670 --> 02:21:28,090
Speaker 8: think that's where she goes.

2600
02:21:28,190 --> 02:21:29,129
Speaker 4: That's very romantic.

2601
02:21:29,170 --> 02:21:33,030
Speaker 1: Yes. Also, I wasn't done because that was not the

2602
02:21:33,070 --> 02:21:33,990
Speaker 1: bonkers part.

2603
02:21:34,550 --> 02:21:34,910
Speaker 6: Oh, OK.

2604
02:21:34,990 --> 02:21:37,480
Speaker 4: Oh, the last sentence is phenomenal. You're going to love this, James.

2605
02:21:38,180 --> 02:21:40,100
Speaker 1: Okay, great. Yeah, hit me.

2606
02:21:41,120 --> 02:21:43,140
Speaker 8: Okay, after all, she signed a contract, so no one

2607
02:21:43,160 --> 02:21:45,970
Speaker 8: will believe her anymore, right? Solutions to this kind of

2608
02:21:46,020 --> 02:21:48,510
Speaker 8: problem will not be found in anything other than even

2609
02:21:48,550 --> 02:21:51,890
Speaker 8: more rules and even more government interference. What is the

2610
02:21:51,930 --> 02:21:55,629
Speaker 8: next step? Cameras in the bedroom or a civil servant

2611
02:21:55,709 --> 02:21:59,430
Speaker 8: standing beside your bed? This new sexual offense law creates

2612
02:21:59,510 --> 02:22:03,170
Speaker 8: more problems than it solves. All of this legal uncertainty,

2613
02:22:03,550 --> 02:22:07,330
Speaker 8: the erosion of the presumption of innocence, the extinguishing of romance...

2614
02:22:08,290 --> 02:22:10,590
Speaker 8: indicates that we should not even want to crack the

2615
02:22:10,629 --> 02:22:13,030
Speaker 8: door open to this Orwellian nightmare.

2616
02:22:13,209 --> 02:22:13,669
Speaker 10: No!

2617
02:22:14,030 --> 02:22:14,750
Speaker 1: Every time!

2618
02:22:15,110 --> 02:22:15,510
Speaker 7: No!

2619
02:22:15,530 --> 02:22:18,680
Speaker 1: No door! Every time! I knew it was coming. I

2620
02:22:19,060 --> 02:22:20,940
Speaker 1: knew it was coming and I'm still angry.

2621
02:22:20,959 --> 02:22:23,760
Speaker 4: What is it, 1984?

2622
02:22:23,760 --> 02:22:26,800
Speaker 8: It may still sound abstract to you, but ask yourself

2623
02:22:26,840 --> 02:22:29,140
Speaker 8: the following question in all seriousness.

2624
02:22:29,600 --> 02:22:30,340
Speaker 1: I'm serious.

2625
02:22:30,920 --> 02:22:34,529
Speaker 8: How many totalitarian regimes in history can you name that

2626
02:22:34,570 --> 02:22:36,850
Speaker 8: went so far as to write rules and laws?

2627
02:22:37,370 --> 02:22:40,930
Speaker 1: Dictating how people must behave in the bedroom. The question

2628
02:22:41,090 --> 02:22:42,060
Speaker 1: answers itself.

2629
02:22:42,590 --> 02:22:45,080
Speaker 4: Making rape illegal basically makes you Hitler.

2630
02:22:46,300 --> 02:22:49,880
Speaker 1: This is insane. The same person who wants the state

2631
02:22:49,920 --> 02:22:53,300
Speaker 1: to fucking kick people out for not being white. It's

2632
02:22:53,340 --> 02:22:56,110
Speaker 1: a little too far if they're policing rape, though, isn't it?

2633
02:22:56,260 --> 02:23:00,630
Speaker 1: That should be something we settle amongst ourselves. They always

2634
02:23:00,709 --> 02:23:03,750
Speaker 1: do this, and I find it so fucking annoying. Obviously,

2635
02:23:03,770 --> 02:23:05,490
Speaker 1: the most annoying thing here is not being wrong about

2636
02:23:05,510 --> 02:23:09,580
Speaker 1: George Orwell, who had some fucking issues with consent himself.

2637
02:23:10,740 --> 02:23:14,120
Speaker 1: But God, it pisses... The whole thing, it's just... It's

2638
02:23:14,180 --> 02:23:15,019
Speaker 1: so puerile.

2639
02:23:15,200 --> 02:23:17,620
Speaker 4: This would be better if she did let ChatGPT write it.

2640
02:23:18,120 --> 02:23:21,490
Speaker 1: Yeah. Now I'm wondering how this person... If this is

2641
02:23:21,550 --> 02:23:24,310
Speaker 1: a topic she explored for her master's degree... We do

2642
02:23:24,330 --> 02:23:26,270
Speaker 1: need to find the thesis. If they also let ChatGPT

2643
02:23:26,330 --> 02:23:30,570
Speaker 1: grade it, is what I'm wondering. Because, like Molly said,

2644
02:23:30,629 --> 02:23:33,939
Speaker 1: if you worked in education... Like, I've been in higher

2645
02:23:34,000 --> 02:23:39,110
Speaker 1: education for 20 years. And yeah, you've heard this shit

2646
02:23:39,390 --> 02:23:42,390
Speaker 1: from an 18-year-old guy whose shirt doesn't have sleeves for

2647
02:23:42,410 --> 02:23:45,070
Speaker 1: the most part, right? And like, I wear a lot

2648
02:23:45,090 --> 02:23:48,050
Speaker 1: of sleeveless shirts myself. Like, that's fine. But there's a

2649
02:23:48,090 --> 02:23:50,140
Speaker 1: type of dude who's been saying this shit to you

2650
02:23:50,640 --> 02:23:54,380
Speaker 1: every September since you started talking about this shit, right?

2651
02:23:54,459 --> 02:23:57,240
Speaker 1: And like, just because a lady wrote it in a

2652
02:23:57,320 --> 02:23:59,460
Speaker 1: fucking thesis doesn't make it any less dumb.

2653
02:23:59,480 --> 02:24:00,580
Speaker 4: Well, this is actually a Twitter post.

2654
02:24:00,600 --> 02:24:00,760
Speaker 6: Yeah.

2655
02:24:02,850 --> 02:24:04,770
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, that makes more sense. That makes a lot

2656
02:24:04,790 --> 02:24:05,070
Speaker 1: more sense.

2657
02:24:05,110 --> 02:24:06,230
Speaker 4: If this is drawn from her thesis.

2658
02:24:06,270 --> 02:24:08,550
Speaker 1: If that's a line of argumentation she went with.

2659
02:24:08,650 --> 02:24:11,300
Speaker 4: If this is the quality of thinking in her master's thesis,

2660
02:24:11,640 --> 02:24:13,240
Speaker 4: I actually do really want to see it now. We

2661
02:24:13,260 --> 02:24:13,720
Speaker 4: have to find it.

2662
02:24:13,740 --> 02:24:18,080
Speaker 1: Where did she do her master's thesis? Leiden University. Okay.

2663
02:24:18,660 --> 02:24:22,500
Speaker 1: Did she make a significant donation at any point to

2664
02:24:22,959 --> 02:24:23,940
Speaker 1: Leiden University?

2665
02:24:23,959 --> 02:24:27,050
Speaker 8: Well, like, if we're detouring already, there is, like, a

2666
02:24:27,100 --> 02:24:31,230
Speaker 8: prominent supporter of the fascist party who teaches at Leiden

2667
02:24:31,270 --> 02:24:31,789
Speaker 8: Law School.

2668
02:24:32,050 --> 02:24:32,209
Speaker 7: So.

2669
02:24:32,760 --> 02:24:33,020
Speaker 1: Great.

2670
02:24:33,379 --> 02:24:36,270
Speaker 8: And that's also where Chetty Baudet, who we mentioned earlier,

2671
02:24:36,810 --> 02:24:41,380
Speaker 8: did his promotion research, which was also incredibly bad to

2672
02:24:41,400 --> 02:24:43,959
Speaker 8: the point that one of the people graded it said,

2673
02:24:44,260 --> 02:24:45,560
Speaker 8: you should not get a PhD.

2674
02:24:45,650 --> 02:24:48,900
Speaker 1: This is like... For anyone who doesn't know... Yeah, that

2675
02:24:48,940 --> 02:24:53,000
Speaker 1: doesn't happen very often. You defending your PhD is mostly

2676
02:24:53,060 --> 02:24:56,820
Speaker 1: a formality? Yeah, like, you might get some difficult questions.

2677
02:24:56,980 --> 02:24:57,240
Speaker 6: Yeah.

2678
02:24:57,459 --> 02:25:01,200
Speaker 1: But people who go into their defense normally expect to

2679
02:25:01,260 --> 02:25:05,360
Speaker 1: leave with a PhD, right? Like, if your shit's so bad... And, like,

2680
02:25:05,500 --> 02:25:08,620
Speaker 1: if they don't tell you about it before you get

2681
02:25:08,780 --> 02:25:12,140
Speaker 1: to the exam, it's because they really don't like you

2682
02:25:12,180 --> 02:25:14,320
Speaker 1: very much, right? Like, if you've got to that point

2683
02:25:14,940 --> 02:25:18,660
Speaker 1: where you're having your you're defending with your committee and

2684
02:25:18,720 --> 02:25:21,940
Speaker 1: they haven't been like, hey, this is really bad. You

2685
02:25:21,959 --> 02:25:25,300
Speaker 1: need to rewrite this. You have made an enemy.

2686
02:25:26,260 --> 02:25:29,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, I guess done is good enough in most cases.

2687
02:25:29,440 --> 02:25:30,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah.

2688
02:25:30,100 --> 02:25:33,550
Speaker 4: Because I don't have occasion to read very many theses

2689
02:25:33,610 --> 02:25:37,250
Speaker 4: or dissertations, but every time I do, I'm surprised that

2690
02:25:37,310 --> 02:25:40,030
Speaker 4: it worked. You know what I mean? I did a

2691
02:25:40,050 --> 02:25:43,190
Speaker 4: close reading of... There was a Holocaust denier who died

2692
02:25:43,209 --> 02:25:44,690
Speaker 4: in a murder-suicide. He killed his wife.

2693
02:25:45,570 --> 02:25:45,930
Speaker 1: And his.

2694
02:25:46,770 --> 02:25:48,609
Speaker 4: history thesis was one of the worst things i've ever

2695
02:25:48,650 --> 02:25:51,029
Speaker 4: read and i was so surprised and a bunch of

2696
02:25:51,080 --> 02:25:53,279
Speaker 4: listeners wrote in to my my show email to say

2697
02:25:53,420 --> 02:25:55,420
Speaker 4: oh no that's it's pretty normal for a thesis to

2698
02:25:55,440 --> 02:25:56,939
Speaker 4: be just absolute dog shit.

2699
02:25:57,500 --> 02:25:59,000
Speaker 1: Yeah i don't want to i don't want to take

2700
02:25:59,040 --> 02:26:02,140
Speaker 1: that one as a representative sample uh but they do

2701
02:26:02,200 --> 02:26:04,019
Speaker 1: say your thesis should be the first draft of your

2702
02:26:04,040 --> 02:26:06,369
Speaker 1: book or your dissertation if you're in the u.s and

2703
02:26:06,690 --> 02:26:09,170
Speaker 1: uh i it's really easy if you're in grad school

2704
02:26:09,190 --> 02:26:11,330
Speaker 1: to get way too wrapped up in making it perfect

2705
02:26:11,890 --> 02:26:14,709
Speaker 1: but also some people still manage to uh do some

2706
02:26:14,750 --> 02:26:18,070
Speaker 1: nazi shit and I'm glad that someone held the line.

2707
02:26:18,950 --> 02:26:21,240
Speaker 4: Like all of his citations were to David Irving books

2708
02:26:21,300 --> 02:26:22,900
Speaker 4: and like they still gave him the degree.

2709
02:26:23,480 --> 02:26:27,060
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a couple of info citations.

2710
02:26:27,120 --> 02:26:29,940
Speaker 4: Citation, author's email with David Irving.

2711
02:26:31,020 --> 02:26:33,300
Speaker 1: Maybe David Icke gets in there for some like real

2712
02:26:33,320 --> 02:26:34,240
Speaker 1: old school credibility.

2713
02:26:34,780 --> 02:26:37,770
Speaker 8: I had a professor during my master's and at some

2714
02:26:37,830 --> 02:26:41,250
Speaker 8: point he said, like all of your master theses will

2715
02:26:41,310 --> 02:26:44,810
Speaker 8: probably be shit. And that's fine because the master thesis

2716
02:26:44,850 --> 02:26:45,730
Speaker 8: is for you to learn.

2717
02:26:47,190 --> 02:26:49,250
Speaker 1: There's value to having a piece of writing that doesn't

2718
02:26:49,290 --> 02:26:51,690
Speaker 1: have to be perfect. And I'm sure if I looked

2719
02:26:51,740 --> 02:26:53,879
Speaker 1: at lots of academics who I deeply respect and read

2720
02:26:53,900 --> 02:26:57,660
Speaker 1: their master's thesis or their PhD dissertation, I would be

2721
02:26:57,740 --> 02:26:59,760
Speaker 1: able to witness their growth. And that would give me

2722
02:26:59,820 --> 02:27:02,580
Speaker 1: hope as an academic that we can all get better.

2723
02:27:02,660 --> 02:27:05,040
Speaker 4: But it sounds like she didn't learn much because this

2724
02:27:05,140 --> 02:27:06,820
Speaker 4: essay is something a moron would write.

2725
02:27:06,840 --> 02:27:10,720
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. Oh, no. The Orwell mention because like... Anyone

2726
02:27:10,760 --> 02:27:13,250
Speaker 1: mentioning Orwell in a piece of academic writing needs to.

2727
02:27:13,310 --> 02:27:14,260
Speaker 4: Are you a teenager?

2728
02:27:14,580 --> 02:27:16,920
Speaker 8: No, but like Orwell did have some pretty good opinions

2729
02:27:17,010 --> 02:27:19,470
Speaker 8: on how to deal with fascists, you know? So I

2730
02:27:19,490 --> 02:27:21,550
Speaker 8: find it ironic that a fascist is quoting it.

2731
02:27:22,410 --> 02:27:23,470
Speaker 4: Because she hasn't read it.

2732
02:27:23,950 --> 02:27:28,370
Speaker 1: Yeah, many such cases, right? Yeah, exactly. She's engaged with

2733
02:27:28,370 --> 02:27:31,170
Speaker 1: 1984 through cultural memes in the same way fucking Elon

2734
02:27:31,209 --> 02:27:36,510
Speaker 1: Musk has. I read Dorian Linksey's book about Orwell writing

2735
02:27:36,670 --> 02:27:40,040
Speaker 1: in 1984 recently, and the amount of his life, that

2736
02:27:40,080 --> 02:27:43,820
Speaker 1: he spent after animal farm being like no you guys

2737
02:27:43,840 --> 02:27:46,380
Speaker 1: don't fucking understand it that's not what i meant please

2738
02:27:46,440 --> 02:27:50,470
Speaker 1: stop it specifically with americans but on a much broader

2739
02:27:50,490 --> 02:27:53,410
Speaker 1: scale the amount of time he spent like trying to

2740
02:27:53,610 --> 02:27:56,770
Speaker 1: refuse interviews being like no i'm a like i'm a

2741
02:27:56,810 --> 02:27:59,050
Speaker 1: man of the left and that is a group And

2742
02:27:59,080 --> 02:28:00,930
Speaker 1: like that I remain or something was one that he

2743
02:28:00,950 --> 02:28:03,830
Speaker 1: wrote in a letter refusing an interview. But the poor

2744
02:28:03,890 --> 02:28:06,830
Speaker 1: guy spent his dying days being like, you motherfuckers haven't

2745
02:28:06,870 --> 02:28:11,050
Speaker 1: understood my book, you stupid pricks. And every year they

2746
02:28:11,110 --> 02:28:13,670
Speaker 1: dig him up and do the same shit.

2747
02:28:13,950 --> 02:28:15,830
Speaker 4: That must be absolute torture for him.

2748
02:28:15,870 --> 02:28:17,529
Speaker 1: Like the rat's pill from the Matrix.

2749
02:28:17,770 --> 02:28:19,310
Speaker 4: I'm going to use a Ouija board to tell George

2750
02:28:19,410 --> 02:28:21,810
Speaker 4: Orwell about Alex Jones.

2751
02:28:21,830 --> 02:28:24,000
Speaker 1: The guy has suffered enough, Molly.

2752
02:28:24,900 --> 02:28:29,789
Speaker 4: The answer to 1984 is 1776. one of alex's favorite

2753
02:28:29,810 --> 02:28:30,870
Speaker 4: lines ah.

2754
02:28:31,690 --> 02:28:34,129
Speaker 1: I know that god just there's an inside joke i

2755
02:28:34,150 --> 02:28:36,629
Speaker 1: love that her body goes on a rant her camera

2756
02:28:36,650 --> 02:28:39,170
Speaker 1: like automatically zooms in a little bit and it just

2757
02:28:39,220 --> 02:28:43,320
Speaker 1: gets extra ominous yeah you get like she's doing it

2758
02:28:43,360 --> 02:28:45,840
Speaker 1: that's it that's an old alex jones trick actually get

2759
02:28:45,879 --> 02:28:58,690
Speaker 1: them forehead veins to pop To try to get us

2760
02:28:58,750 --> 02:29:00,470
Speaker 1: back on track again. Sorry.

2761
02:29:00,920 --> 02:29:04,880
Speaker 8: Like, she's very much into the same, like, female nationalism

2762
02:29:05,180 --> 02:29:08,560
Speaker 8: that we discussed with also you, Molly, during the Quentin

2763
02:29:08,580 --> 02:29:09,599
Speaker 8: Derank episodes.

2764
02:29:09,620 --> 02:29:12,240
Speaker 4: But without any feminism or proper nationalism.

2765
02:29:12,260 --> 02:29:16,570
Speaker 8: No, it's, again, all feminism is we need to stop

2766
02:29:16,610 --> 02:29:18,869
Speaker 8: being raped by migrants and then everything is solved.

2767
02:29:19,430 --> 02:29:20,150
Speaker 1: Which is not the case.

2768
02:29:20,170 --> 02:29:22,310
Speaker 4: No, we just should be raped by our husbands, I guess,

2769
02:29:22,370 --> 02:29:24,210
Speaker 4: is her argument. I don't want to be raped by

2770
02:29:24,250 --> 02:29:25,689
Speaker 4: an immigrant. I want to be raped by a husband.

2771
02:29:25,720 --> 02:29:27,690
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's... As is tradition.

2772
02:29:27,770 --> 02:29:30,630
Speaker 8: She would probably agree that that would be fine or

2773
02:29:30,690 --> 02:29:32,590
Speaker 8: deny that that such a thing is possible.

2774
02:29:32,610 --> 02:29:33,350
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think.

2775
02:29:33,570 --> 02:29:34,250
Speaker 4: Yeah, more likely.

2776
02:29:34,590 --> 02:29:35,370
Speaker 1: But it's a contract.

2777
02:29:35,890 --> 02:29:36,129
Speaker 5: Yeah.

2778
02:29:36,670 --> 02:29:39,270
Speaker 8: Anyway, some of the listeners may also have had the

2779
02:29:39,290 --> 02:29:42,190
Speaker 8: misfortune of seeing Eva on the Tucker Carlson show.

2780
02:29:42,709 --> 02:29:43,610
Speaker 4: He knows how to pick them.

2781
02:29:43,740 --> 02:29:44,170
Speaker 10: Yeah.

2782
02:29:44,660 --> 02:29:45,800
Speaker 1: At the moment, she is.

2783
02:29:45,820 --> 02:29:51,810
Speaker 8: Married to Francesco Gargalo di Castellantini. a Roman-based lawyer who

2784
02:29:51,890 --> 02:29:56,129
Speaker 8: is descended from a long line of Italian noblemen. He's

2785
02:29:56,170 --> 02:29:59,510
Speaker 8: a constitutional lawyer who practices in a number of countries

2786
02:30:00,129 --> 02:30:03,870
Speaker 8: and recently defended a woman who in 2021 refused to

2787
02:30:03,910 --> 02:30:07,070
Speaker 8: take a PCR test when she traveled from Spain to Norway.

2788
02:30:09,110 --> 02:30:14,770
Speaker 4: God, the Venn diagram. I want the government to be

2789
02:30:14,850 --> 02:30:18,449
Speaker 4: powerful enough to rip apart families and sink boats full

2790
02:30:18,480 --> 02:30:20,860
Speaker 4: of children in the sea. But I don't want the

2791
02:30:20,910 --> 02:30:22,869
Speaker 4: government to be able to make me put a swab

2792
02:30:22,910 --> 02:30:26,130
Speaker 4: in my nose to prove I don't have a deadly disease.

2793
02:30:26,650 --> 02:30:29,650
Speaker 8: Cool and normal stuff. I don't want to be surprised,

2794
02:30:29,770 --> 02:30:33,910
Speaker 8: and I'm not, but also I am. Further, she spoke

2795
02:30:34,190 --> 02:30:37,730
Speaker 8: at multiple Unite the Kingdom rallies in the UK, including

2796
02:30:37,770 --> 02:30:42,760
Speaker 8: in the September of 2025 one, where she encouraged attendees

2797
02:30:42,800 --> 02:30:46,020
Speaker 8: to stand up to their governments. Protests ended in violence.

2798
02:30:46,020 --> 02:30:50,480
Speaker 8: 26 police officers injured and 24 people arrested, according to

2799
02:30:50,500 --> 02:30:53,260
Speaker 8: the Daily Mail. It does, however, not mention if the

2800
02:30:53,320 --> 02:30:56,490
Speaker 8: police were there in their professional capacity or not, which

2801
02:30:56,580 --> 02:31:00,070
Speaker 8: I think is a meaningful distinction to make there. This

2802
02:31:00,129 --> 02:31:02,609
Speaker 8: incident also led her to from being barred from the

2803
02:31:02,750 --> 02:31:06,750
Speaker 8: UK as her presence was not considered conductive to the

2804
02:31:06,810 --> 02:31:11,420
Speaker 8: public good. After this, she labeled Keir Starmer a tyrant.

2805
02:31:12,320 --> 02:31:14,480
Speaker 8: If anyone has ever seen an interview with Keir Starmer,

2806
02:31:14,500 --> 02:31:17,260
Speaker 8: you know this is untrue because Keir Starmer is the

2807
02:31:17,340 --> 02:31:19,660
Speaker 8: dark crevice where charisma goes to die.

2808
02:31:20,080 --> 02:31:22,779
Speaker 1: Yeah, he lacks a charisma for fascism.

2809
02:31:23,320 --> 02:31:29,240
Speaker 8: For anything. He is the most bland, flavorless politician you've

2810
02:31:29,300 --> 02:31:31,800
Speaker 8: ever seen. I don't want to slander Keir Starmer because

2811
02:31:31,840 --> 02:31:34,280
Speaker 8: I would like to visit the UK at some point again.

2812
02:31:34,680 --> 02:31:36,640
Speaker 1: But not that. The demand.

2813
02:31:36,720 --> 02:31:39,920
Speaker 4: Calling a British politician a little bit bland is not slander.

2814
02:31:40,860 --> 02:31:44,910
Speaker 1: Well, we got Andy Burnham now who... played the Smiths

2815
02:31:45,209 --> 02:31:48,550
Speaker 1: to a group of soldiers in Ukraine on a guitar recently.

2816
02:31:48,750 --> 02:31:49,150
Speaker 4: Why?

2817
02:31:52,150 --> 02:31:54,730
Speaker 1: It's the most British thing that anyone's ever done. He

2818
02:31:56,350 --> 02:32:00,660
Speaker 1: was visiting Ukrainian soldiers. Was he trying to cheer them up?

2819
02:32:00,760 --> 02:32:03,960
Speaker 1: That's what I can't understand. Doing a morale trip and

2820
02:32:03,980 --> 02:32:06,340
Speaker 1: being like, here's a sad song written by a really

2821
02:32:06,379 --> 02:32:09,570
Speaker 1: annoying guy. I like the Smiths, but Morris is a prick.

2822
02:32:09,590 --> 02:32:10,650
Speaker 1: I think we can all acknowledge that.

2823
02:32:11,070 --> 02:32:14,209
Speaker 8: Maybe that's proof he's on Russia's side trying to incite

2824
02:32:14,290 --> 02:32:15,230
Speaker 8: mass suicide.

2825
02:32:15,250 --> 02:32:15,890
Speaker 3: Yeah, trying to.

2826
02:32:15,870 --> 02:32:17,269
Speaker 4: Demoralize the troops.

2827
02:32:19,370 --> 02:32:20,369
Speaker 1: It's a song about suicide.

2828
02:32:20,390 --> 02:32:21,869
Speaker 4: Yeah, I heard you were having a hard day. Why

2829
02:32:22,030 --> 02:32:23,890
Speaker 4: don't you enjoy some Morrissey?

2830
02:32:24,290 --> 02:32:29,050
Speaker 1: Yeah, his heaven knows I'm miserable. You have to be

2831
02:32:29,090 --> 02:32:33,280
Speaker 1: as miserable as I am, so I'm playing this song. Okay.

2832
02:32:33,680 --> 02:32:35,420
Speaker 8: That was all the fun stuff I had on the

2833
02:32:35,459 --> 02:32:39,480
Speaker 8: fascist shield maiden, to be honest. Still some funny stuff

2834
02:32:39,540 --> 02:32:41,959
Speaker 8: in there, but also... Jesus fucking Christ.

2835
02:32:42,780 --> 02:32:45,640
Speaker 4: But unsurprising on all fronts. These people are exactly what

2836
02:32:45,660 --> 02:32:46,620
Speaker 4: he would expect them to be.

2837
02:32:47,340 --> 02:32:50,050
Speaker 1: Yeah. I'm not even surprised that she married a nobleman.

2838
02:32:50,840 --> 02:32:53,150
Speaker 4: No, that's classic fascism stuff. Love that for her.

2839
02:32:53,190 --> 02:32:58,150
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. All of this. Italian nobles, famously unproblematic.

2840
02:32:58,450 --> 02:33:01,470
Speaker 4: It's like Colin Jordan marrying the Dior heiress. Like, okay,

2841
02:33:01,510 --> 02:33:01,950
Speaker 4: I got it.

2842
02:33:02,129 --> 02:33:03,410
Speaker 1: I got it.

2843
02:33:03,430 --> 02:33:05,769
Speaker 8: There is one more composed golem that we have to

2844
02:33:05,830 --> 02:33:08,539
Speaker 8: talk about. And this one takes great effort in remaining

2845
02:33:08,580 --> 02:33:11,150
Speaker 8: more behind the scenes. I'm curious if you guys heard

2846
02:33:11,170 --> 02:33:13,540
Speaker 8: of him. That applies to both his role in pulling

2847
02:33:13,720 --> 02:33:16,539
Speaker 8: Europe even further to the right, but also his personal life.

2848
02:33:17,320 --> 02:33:20,740
Speaker 8: It is the chairman of the World Congress for the Family,

2849
02:33:20,760 --> 02:33:25,850
Speaker 8: hailing from the United States, Mr. Brian Stephen Brown.

2850
02:33:26,230 --> 02:33:30,930
Speaker 4: I've never heard of Brian. He sounds very boring. Just

2851
02:33:30,950 --> 02:33:35,380
Speaker 4: like a garden variety, like a weird pervert. Brian Stephen Brown.

2852
02:33:35,400 --> 02:33:38,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, he has a Wikipedia page. Oh, okay.

2853
02:33:38,620 --> 02:33:43,010
Speaker 4: I recognize the symbol on the podium where he is here. Now, oh,

2854
02:33:43,070 --> 02:33:44,870
Speaker 4: he's the National Organization for Marriage guy.

2855
02:33:44,930 --> 02:33:47,129
Speaker 1: Yes. I think I wrote it down wrong in my

2856
02:33:47,170 --> 02:33:48,370
Speaker 1: script then. No, he's both.

2857
02:33:48,430 --> 02:33:50,129
Speaker 4: It's the World Congress of Families I've never heard of.

2858
02:33:50,140 --> 02:33:52,500
Speaker 4: The National Organization for Marriage. That's a classic.

2859
02:33:53,200 --> 02:33:56,259
Speaker 1: Now, I'll consider this feedback on my script writing.

2860
02:33:56,890 --> 02:33:58,550
Speaker 4: Oh, no, it's just that's that's the hate group I'm

2861
02:33:58,590 --> 02:34:00,709
Speaker 4: familiar with of the hate groups he's affiliated with.

2862
02:34:00,750 --> 02:34:04,130
Speaker 8: Yeah, there is more hate groups that he's affiliated with

2863
02:34:04,170 --> 02:34:05,300
Speaker 8: than we could name.

2864
02:34:05,640 --> 02:34:06,100
Speaker 1: It's a lot.

2865
02:34:06,740 --> 02:34:09,480
Speaker 4: But yeah, America is full of these like vague sounding

2866
02:34:09,560 --> 02:34:13,400
Speaker 4: foundations for the focus on the family, the family, Congress, world,

2867
02:34:13,940 --> 02:34:15,959
Speaker 4: wives and babies or whatever. Like it's just like this

2868
02:34:16,220 --> 02:34:20,910
Speaker 4: word salad basically about weird white natalism and hating gay

2869
02:34:20,950 --> 02:34:23,280
Speaker 4: people and immigration. It's just sort of a grab bag,

2870
02:34:23,300 --> 02:34:25,019
Speaker 4: like whatever part of that you're into.

2871
02:34:25,420 --> 02:34:29,090
Speaker 8: So the Justice for Prosperity report that I used earlier

2872
02:34:29,110 --> 02:34:33,050
Speaker 8: states that the World Congress for Families is an ultra-conservative

2873
02:34:33,190 --> 02:34:37,910
Speaker 8: and transnational anti-rights network that opposes all the things you

2874
02:34:38,030 --> 02:34:42,030
Speaker 8: imagine it opposes. Abortion, same-sex marriage. It was labeled a

2875
02:34:42,070 --> 02:34:45,420
Speaker 8: hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center. Brown is

2876
02:34:45,459 --> 02:34:48,960
Speaker 8: also on the board of Citizen Go, a Spanish anti-abortion

2877
02:34:49,040 --> 02:34:54,130
Speaker 8: and anti-LGBT advocacy group. In fact, if you needed just

2878
02:34:54,190 --> 02:34:56,609
Speaker 8: a little bit more evidence of the type of bastard

2879
02:34:56,629 --> 02:35:00,400
Speaker 8: he is, he physically stood in the Russian Duma as

2880
02:35:00,480 --> 02:35:03,520
Speaker 8: it passed the anti-gay bill legislation.

2881
02:35:03,560 --> 02:35:03,779
Speaker 7: Great.

2882
02:35:04,459 --> 02:35:07,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've seen that picture as well.

2883
02:35:07,540 --> 02:35:07,959
Speaker 7: Oh, wow.

2884
02:35:08,620 --> 02:35:10,520
Speaker 4: He looks exactly like you think he's going to look.

2885
02:35:10,600 --> 02:35:14,539
Speaker 1: It's like a hairy thumb. Yeah, this isn't a surprise

2886
02:35:14,580 --> 02:35:18,449
Speaker 1: to me. Like an otter or something? Like a bald otter? Yeah.

2887
02:35:18,709 --> 02:35:20,070
Speaker 1: Mole rat is what I'm thinking of.

2888
02:35:20,870 --> 02:35:23,270
Speaker 4: Wait, so what's our American homophobe got to do with this?

2889
02:35:23,810 --> 02:35:25,570
Speaker 4: I got distracted looking at how weird he looks.

2890
02:35:25,930 --> 02:35:27,730
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's understandable.

2891
02:35:28,490 --> 02:35:31,890
Speaker 8: We'll get there first, because he was not only just

2892
02:35:31,990 --> 02:35:36,910
Speaker 8: at the Duma for that legislation to pass. After he

2893
02:35:36,950 --> 02:35:40,470
Speaker 8: was present at that legislation passing, he was also repeatedly

2894
02:35:40,530 --> 02:35:44,370
Speaker 8: returned to Russia to chat with his buddies, Konstantin Maloviev

2895
02:35:44,870 --> 02:35:49,129
Speaker 8: and his right-hand man, Alexei Komov, allies of Putin.

2896
02:35:49,870 --> 02:35:53,340
Speaker 1: Well, What do they chat about? Probably about how great

2897
02:35:53,360 --> 02:35:55,780
Speaker 1: it is not to have polonium in your underwear or

2898
02:35:55,860 --> 02:36:01,240
Speaker 1: how dangerous falling out of a basement window is. I'm guessing.

2899
02:36:01,360 --> 02:36:01,940
Speaker 1: I don't know.

2900
02:36:02,560 --> 02:36:04,080
Speaker 8: And I don't want to know because I don't want

2901
02:36:04,140 --> 02:36:08,310
Speaker 8: either of those things to happen to me. But Malaviv

2902
02:36:08,350 --> 02:36:11,270
Speaker 8: has been on both the EU and US sanctions list

2903
02:36:11,490 --> 02:36:14,970
Speaker 8: since 2014 for arming pro-Russian separatists.

2904
02:36:15,610 --> 02:36:16,090
Speaker 1: Oh, cool.

2905
02:36:16,610 --> 02:36:18,410
Speaker 4: So not a guy you should really be hanging out with.

2906
02:36:19,040 --> 02:36:21,039
Speaker 1: I feel like this is the through line, but it

2907
02:36:21,080 --> 02:36:23,199
Speaker 1: gets worse. It gets worse.

2908
02:36:23,230 --> 02:36:27,770
Speaker 8: He also helped finance regular conferences that merge multiple pro-family groups.

2909
02:36:28,450 --> 02:36:33,190
Speaker 8: Read pro-family as anti-abortion, anti-LGBT. Yeah, pro-family is a bold.

2910
02:36:33,230 --> 02:36:35,030
Speaker 4: Pro exactly what kind of family?

2911
02:36:35,500 --> 02:36:41,360
Speaker 8: Yeah, anti-self-determination. And through this process, allegedly, they also extend

2912
02:36:41,400 --> 02:36:46,330
Speaker 8: the influence of Russian geopolitical policy into other countries. Other

2913
02:36:46,370 --> 02:36:50,110
Speaker 8: investigations from Justice for Prosperity also identified him as the

2914
02:36:50,190 --> 02:36:55,680
Speaker 8: primary coordinator and fundraiser behind the systemic deportations and relocation

2915
02:36:55,720 --> 02:36:59,400
Speaker 8: of Ukrainian children through his St. Basil the Great Foundation.

2916
02:36:59,660 --> 02:37:04,680
Speaker 1: Jesus. Under the aptly chosen name, Happy Childhood.

2917
02:37:04,959 --> 02:37:05,440
Speaker 4: Fuck me.

2918
02:37:06,080 --> 02:37:06,260
Speaker 6: Yeah.

2919
02:37:06,680 --> 02:37:10,630
Speaker 1: And, like, I also want to mention, because, James, we

2920
02:37:11,190 --> 02:37:12,270
Speaker 1: also had a chat about this.

2921
02:37:12,290 --> 02:37:13,050
Speaker 10: Yeah.

2922
02:37:13,170 --> 02:37:17,900
Speaker 8: Forcefully displacing or relocating children... That's one of the things

2923
02:37:17,920 --> 02:37:19,150
Speaker 8: that's a genocide.

2924
02:37:19,330 --> 02:37:19,570
Speaker 7: Yes.

2925
02:37:19,760 --> 02:37:22,269
Speaker 4: That's in the UN definition of a genocide.

2926
02:37:22,290 --> 02:37:22,730
Speaker 14: Yeah.

2927
02:37:22,790 --> 02:37:25,670
Speaker 1: But it has to specifically be children.

2928
02:37:26,190 --> 02:37:30,640
Speaker 8: So like the quasi-Nuremberg laws that we read earlier. are

2929
02:37:30,700 --> 02:37:36,199
Speaker 8: technically not genocidal because it's not explicitly children. But one

2930
02:37:36,300 --> 02:37:39,760
Speaker 8: could imagine what it would be if you followed their

2931
02:37:39,830 --> 02:37:41,690
Speaker 8: policies to their logical conclusion.

2932
02:37:41,870 --> 02:37:42,410
Speaker 1: Yeah.

2933
02:37:43,470 --> 02:37:45,890
Speaker 8: But Brown is also involved with the Safe Europe Act.

2934
02:37:46,390 --> 02:37:49,750
Speaker 8: He was present at the first demonstration in Brussels. But

2935
02:37:49,790 --> 02:37:51,570
Speaker 8: his true involvement is much more.

2936
02:37:51,480 --> 02:37:52,160
Speaker 1: Behind the scenes.

2937
02:37:52,820 --> 02:37:58,740
Speaker 8: He co-owns a digital infrastructure company called AlternCloud, self-described as

2938
02:37:58,920 --> 02:38:03,019
Speaker 8: infrastructure as a service. Donations and other forms of digital

2939
02:38:03,040 --> 02:38:06,970
Speaker 8: infrastructure are moving through this, which originate either in the

2940
02:38:07,010 --> 02:38:10,490
Speaker 8: Save Europe Act, the donations I mean then, or people

2941
02:38:10,510 --> 02:38:13,830
Speaker 8: that like the initiative. And AlternCloud itself is also not

2942
02:38:13,850 --> 02:38:16,030
Speaker 8: shy about showcasing their political leanings.

2943
02:38:16,700 --> 02:38:18,140
Speaker 1: I'm quoting from their website.

2944
02:38:18,790 --> 02:38:21,230
Speaker 8: We are excited to report we are now the digital

2945
02:38:21,270 --> 02:38:26,110
Speaker 8: backbone of businesses, organizations, websites, and apps across America and Europe.

2946
02:38:26,910 --> 02:38:32,160
Speaker 8: Current clients include conservative organizations like No Next Row, Never

2947
02:38:32,240 --> 02:38:37,839
Speaker 8: News Impact, conservative and Catholic news organizations such as InfoCatho,

2948
02:38:38,300 --> 02:38:43,120
Speaker 8: La Salon Beige, and Les Forts Vérités, family advocacy nonprofits

2949
02:38:43,180 --> 02:38:47,610
Speaker 8: like International Organization for the Family, And tech companies such

2950
02:38:47,650 --> 02:38:51,940
Speaker 8: as Titanium Secure, Tech IG, and Ad Hoc Capital.

2951
02:38:52,459 --> 02:38:54,740
Speaker 4: I love that they can just call it family advocacy

2952
02:38:54,760 --> 02:38:58,459
Speaker 4: when what it is is like violent homophobia and transphobia

2953
02:38:58,500 --> 02:39:00,980
Speaker 4: and anti-women's rights, anti-abortion.

2954
02:39:01,080 --> 02:39:02,500
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're just a hate group.

2955
02:39:02,950 --> 02:39:06,450
Speaker 4: Family advocacy for a very particular kind of family and

2956
02:39:06,570 --> 02:39:08,150
Speaker 4: everyone else can fuck off and die.

2957
02:39:08,170 --> 02:39:10,610
Speaker 1: Yeah. I'll say this much. At least he lives to

2958
02:39:10,650 --> 02:39:13,290
Speaker 1: his values because allegedly he has nine children.

2959
02:39:13,450 --> 02:39:14,160
Speaker 4: His poor wife.

2960
02:39:14,629 --> 02:39:17,709
Speaker 1: Oh, yes, 100%. Yeah, those poor children.

2961
02:39:17,730 --> 02:39:21,750
Speaker 8: So, the names mentioned earlier, we can already safely assume

2962
02:39:21,810 --> 02:39:24,830
Speaker 8: just what kind of clientele our alternate cloud likes to

2963
02:39:24,850 --> 02:39:27,590
Speaker 8: engage with. But what I find most disturbing is that

2964
02:39:27,640 --> 02:39:31,500
Speaker 8: he's clearly a very influential person of who we know

2965
02:39:31,560 --> 02:39:34,859
Speaker 8: very little. Say what you will about Musk or Zuckerberg

2966
02:39:34,920 --> 02:39:38,220
Speaker 8: or Bezos. At least we know what kind of crepuscular

2967
02:39:38,340 --> 02:39:39,460
Speaker 8: crotch goblins they are.

2968
02:39:39,900 --> 02:39:42,959
Speaker 4: No, but the more effective guys are not making so

2969
02:39:43,000 --> 02:39:43,940
Speaker 4: much fucking noise.

2970
02:39:44,740 --> 02:39:48,170
Speaker 1: That is what scares me about him. Like, at that end,

2971
02:39:48,200 --> 02:39:49,200
Speaker 1: the picture you shared.

2972
02:39:49,510 --> 02:39:50,330
Speaker 4: Not a handsome man.

2973
02:39:50,350 --> 02:39:50,410
Speaker 5: No.

2974
02:39:51,370 --> 02:39:52,810
Speaker 1: Would not want to wake up to that.

2975
02:39:53,350 --> 02:39:55,530
Speaker 4: Would not want to make nine children with that.

2976
02:39:56,830 --> 02:39:58,730
Speaker 1: Well, we don't know if his wife had any say.

2977
02:39:59,230 --> 02:40:00,029
Speaker 6: Yeah.

2978
02:40:00,330 --> 02:40:01,609
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I guess if he's signing on to

2979
02:40:01,660 --> 02:40:03,640
Speaker 4: do business with a woman who thinks rape should be legal.

2980
02:40:03,660 --> 02:40:06,900
Speaker 1: Yeah. Or, like, Russian genocide enjoyers.

2981
02:40:07,180 --> 02:40:07,480
Speaker 3: Yeah.

2982
02:40:07,879 --> 02:40:09,120
Speaker 4: He's not huge on women's rights.

2983
02:40:09,140 --> 02:40:09,340
Speaker 6: Yeah.

2984
02:40:09,879 --> 02:40:10,940
Speaker 1: Like, he's just.

2985
02:40:11,500 --> 02:40:14,539
Speaker 8: Sort of a connection point or a nexus for like

2986
02:40:14,620 --> 02:40:20,320
Speaker 8: Kremlin affiliates, European identitarian groups, the American Christian rights, and

2987
02:40:20,340 --> 02:40:24,720
Speaker 8: like similar anti-rights groups with like these conferences that his

2988
02:40:24,780 --> 02:40:26,750
Speaker 8: contacts also finance.

2989
02:40:28,120 --> 02:40:30,010
Speaker 1: That's all I have on him because there's just not

2990
02:40:30,070 --> 02:40:30,789
Speaker 1: much to find.

2991
02:40:31,390 --> 02:40:33,110
Speaker 4: Well, now I'm curious. I'm going to keep looking.

2992
02:40:34,070 --> 02:40:37,470
Speaker 1: Let me know if you find something. Okay. It is

2993
02:40:37,510 --> 02:40:40,070
Speaker 1: always interesting to find these guys who are pulling the

2994
02:40:40,090 --> 02:40:45,789
Speaker 1: strings and funding these giant hate campaigns, right? They very

2995
02:40:45,850 --> 02:40:52,560
Speaker 1: successfully astroturf these as like ground level, especially like we

2996
02:40:52,580 --> 02:40:55,420
Speaker 1: see this all over the world with anti-migrant shit, right? Like, oh,

2997
02:40:55,459 --> 02:40:56,660
Speaker 1: the people are rising up.

2998
02:40:56,840 --> 02:40:57,920
Speaker 4: There's 750,000 signatures on this petition.

2999
02:40:57,940 --> 02:40:58,100
Speaker 6: Yeah.

3000
02:40:58,140 --> 02:40:58,379
Speaker 7: Right?

3001
02:40:58,400 --> 02:40:58,699
Speaker 5: Slash names.

3002
02:40:58,720 --> 02:41:00,920
Speaker 1: Like there are 750,000 marks on my piece of paper.

3003
02:41:00,980 --> 02:41:01,160
Speaker 2: Yeah.

3004
02:41:05,160 --> 02:41:07,660
Speaker 1: But like the British far right does this all the time, right?

3005
02:41:07,700 --> 02:41:10,619
Speaker 1: They're like, oh, Britain desperately wants to have an independence day,

3006
02:41:10,959 --> 02:41:13,280
Speaker 1: which is largely overlooking the fact that people who have

3007
02:41:13,330 --> 02:41:15,750
Speaker 1: independence days generally do so because Britain colonized them.

3008
02:41:15,890 --> 02:41:17,470
Speaker 4: Because they're independent from Britain now.

3009
02:41:17,610 --> 02:41:20,210
Speaker 1: From Britain, yeah. Who is Britain going to be independent from?

3010
02:41:20,370 --> 02:41:23,850
Speaker 1: Like Brussels? Come on, fuck off. Like, yeah, the famously

3011
02:41:23,910 --> 02:41:26,060
Speaker 1: belligerent colonization of the Belgians.

3012
02:41:26,090 --> 02:41:28,100
Speaker 4: Oh, like they want their own 4th of July? That's

3013
02:41:28,140 --> 02:41:28,660
Speaker 4: so cute.

3014
02:41:28,680 --> 02:41:28,980
Speaker 5: Yeah, right.

3015
02:41:29,000 --> 02:41:29,859
Speaker 1: That's cute.

3016
02:41:30,459 --> 02:41:32,830
Speaker 4: Just do the king's birthday or whatever the fuck you

3017
02:41:32,840 --> 02:41:33,500
Speaker 4: guys are into.

3018
02:41:33,950 --> 02:41:35,770
Speaker 1: We have a day. We have a day on the

3019
02:41:35,970 --> 02:41:39,410
Speaker 1: 5th of November when we let off fireworks because, in

3020
02:41:39,430 --> 02:41:41,370
Speaker 1: a very British way, it is a day that people

3021
02:41:41,410 --> 02:41:42,900
Speaker 1: like to burn a Catholic in effigy.

3022
02:41:42,920 --> 02:41:44,740
Speaker 4: I don't like that.

3023
02:41:45,459 --> 02:41:49,380
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it's actually not great. But like they have

3024
02:41:49,540 --> 02:41:55,850
Speaker 1: very successfully astroturfed their hate as like a popular uprising.

3025
02:41:55,950 --> 02:41:59,010
Speaker 1: And that is why they have been able to get

3026
02:41:59,510 --> 02:42:01,580
Speaker 1: some electoral support for it.

3027
02:42:01,990 --> 02:42:02,209
Speaker 7: Right.

3028
02:42:02,290 --> 02:42:07,160
Speaker 1: Like I was literally skeeting, I believe is the correct verb.

3029
02:42:07,220 --> 02:42:08,140
Speaker 4: I don't think we're saying that.

3030
02:42:08,320 --> 02:42:09,120
Speaker 1: Are we not saying it?

3031
02:42:09,220 --> 02:42:09,420
Speaker 7: Okay.

3032
02:42:09,480 --> 02:42:13,310
Speaker 1: Okay. Posting. I was posting. Let's use a generic term.

3033
02:42:13,870 --> 02:42:16,350
Speaker 1: I was posting today a poll of British people who

3034
02:42:16,370 --> 02:42:18,490
Speaker 1: think London has a poll of people, I should say,

3035
02:42:18,510 --> 02:42:22,150
Speaker 1: who think London has no go areas. It's fucking ludicrous.

3036
02:42:22,190 --> 02:42:26,760
Speaker 1: Like of big cities, London is like super safe. I

3037
02:42:27,180 --> 02:42:30,240
Speaker 1: have gone all over London, like walking or on my bicycle.

3038
02:42:30,680 --> 02:42:32,120
Speaker 4: And so that's that thing where white people think that

3039
02:42:32,160 --> 02:42:34,540
Speaker 4: there are some neighborhoods that like they'll be murdered by

3040
02:42:34,600 --> 02:42:35,619
Speaker 4: immigrants if they go there.

3041
02:42:35,640 --> 02:42:35,720
Speaker 14: Yeah.

3042
02:42:36,400 --> 02:42:38,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, the construct that exists in the right

3043
02:42:38,920 --> 02:42:40,760
Speaker 1: wing mind is that like there are areas that are

3044
02:42:40,780 --> 02:42:43,380
Speaker 1: like under Sharia law in so much as that is

3045
02:42:43,459 --> 02:42:43,980
Speaker 1: a thing.

3046
02:42:44,060 --> 02:42:46,120
Speaker 4: The whole neighborhoods of London under Sharia law.

3047
02:42:46,160 --> 02:42:46,459
Speaker 1: Yeah.

3048
02:42:46,640 --> 02:42:48,240
Speaker 4: Going by the Ayatollah even probably.

3049
02:42:48,260 --> 02:42:51,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. The IRGC in the form of the Quds

3050
02:42:51,120 --> 02:42:53,900
Speaker 1: Force is patrolling. They're such babies.

3051
02:42:53,940 --> 02:42:55,000
Speaker 4: They're such babies.

3052
02:42:55,220 --> 02:42:57,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, like this is being scared of anything that isn't.

3053
02:42:57,840 --> 02:43:00,120
Speaker 4: Like a woman in a hijab looked at you and

3054
02:43:00,160 --> 02:43:01,860
Speaker 4: you thought you were going to get beheaded by ISIS.

3055
02:43:01,890 --> 02:43:02,470
Speaker 4: Like grow up.

3056
02:43:03,270 --> 02:43:06,330
Speaker 1: Yeah like also if you're really worried about isis you

3057
02:43:06,350 --> 02:43:08,410
Speaker 1: know you could have gone to fight with the yep

3058
02:43:08,430 --> 02:43:10,610
Speaker 1: it gave more than a decade but you.

3059
02:43:10,570 --> 02:43:13,009
Speaker 8: Didn't i've been to london and i've had a very

3060
02:43:13,190 --> 02:43:18,110
Speaker 8: pleasant cigarette smoke with a homeless person and never felt threatened.

3061
02:43:18,450 --> 02:43:21,150
Speaker 1: Yeah london's like i've walked all around london i've uh

3062
02:43:21,270 --> 02:43:24,160
Speaker 1: literally just wandered into mosques in london because like i

3063
02:43:24,190 --> 02:43:27,119
Speaker 1: come from a very small village right i mean have

3064
02:43:27,360 --> 02:43:30,140
Speaker 1: a mosque in my tiny village and uh i've been

3065
02:43:30,160 --> 02:43:31,420
Speaker 1: to some mosques and i like them so i want

3066
02:43:31,440 --> 02:43:34,540
Speaker 1: to check out other ones like not a fucking problem

3067
02:43:34,600 --> 02:43:35,820
Speaker 1: people will be nice to you.

3068
02:43:36,040 --> 02:43:38,420
Speaker 4: I mean i think it's projection right like they want

3069
02:43:38,480 --> 02:43:40,780
Speaker 4: to hurt these people so they assume that those people

3070
02:43:40,820 --> 02:43:41,779
Speaker 4: want to hurt them.

3071
02:43:41,920 --> 02:43:43,710
Speaker 1: Yeah yes i think that's probably a fair it's that

3072
02:43:43,790 --> 02:43:44,370
Speaker 1: it's that what is.

3073
02:43:44,350 --> 02:43:46,050
Speaker 4: That thomas jefferson thing you know we have the wolf

3074
02:43:46,090 --> 02:43:48,390
Speaker 4: by the ear we can't let him go if we

3075
02:43:48,430 --> 02:43:50,390
Speaker 4: let the immigrants have rights they'll do to us what

3076
02:43:50,430 --> 02:43:53,570
Speaker 4: we've done to them yeah well yeah like jefferson was

3077
02:43:53,590 --> 02:43:56,010
Speaker 4: saying that about the slaves but yes the principle.

3078
02:43:55,740 --> 02:43:58,289
Speaker 1: Holds If you live your whole life by the clash

3079
02:43:58,330 --> 02:44:03,090
Speaker 1: of civilizations narrative, then it's impossible to understand the world

3080
02:44:03,129 --> 02:44:05,250
Speaker 1: in any other way, right? Because you see yourself as

3081
02:44:05,310 --> 02:44:07,609
Speaker 1: fundamentally opposed to people who are different from you.

3082
02:44:08,110 --> 02:44:09,890
Speaker 4: But not everyone sucks as bad as you do.

3083
02:44:10,250 --> 02:44:13,810
Speaker 1: Yeah. In fact, most people are not pieces of shit.

3084
02:44:14,310 --> 02:44:15,830
Speaker 1: Maybe if we're looking to kick some people out, we

3085
02:44:15,850 --> 02:44:17,950
Speaker 1: could start with the fucking names on the petition. That

3086
02:44:17,970 --> 02:44:18,810
Speaker 1: would be a good start.

3087
02:44:19,590 --> 02:44:20,850
Speaker 4: The ones of them who are even real.

3088
02:44:21,010 --> 02:44:23,189
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, I don't think the state should be...

3089
02:44:24,010 --> 02:44:25,670
Speaker 1: Telling anyone from their family, to be clear, I don't

3090
02:44:25,690 --> 02:44:27,539
Speaker 1: think it's funny when someone gets deported. I don't care

3091
02:44:27,560 --> 02:44:30,320
Speaker 1: if they're a bad person. I find the laughing about

3092
02:44:30,340 --> 02:44:33,720
Speaker 1: people who don't like being deported deeply frustrating, actually, because

3093
02:44:33,780 --> 02:44:37,980
Speaker 1: we should abolish ICE and DHS and the whole deportation machine.

3094
02:44:39,180 --> 02:44:42,400
Speaker 1: And Europe while we're at it. Yeah, sure.

3095
02:44:42,600 --> 02:44:44,320
Speaker 4: I mean, in the grand scheme of history, most of

3096
02:44:44,360 --> 02:44:46,700
Speaker 4: those countries are just a blip on the radar. Just

3097
02:44:46,760 --> 02:44:47,589
Speaker 4: abolish Germany.

3098
02:44:49,920 --> 02:44:52,490
Speaker 8: I could support that. But I do want to piggyback

3099
02:44:52,530 --> 02:44:55,630
Speaker 8: a little bit on what you just said about the astroturfing, James,

3100
02:44:56,070 --> 02:45:00,490
Speaker 8: because the last bit of my script regards the discourse

3101
02:45:00,550 --> 02:45:03,350
Speaker 8: and violence that has happened in the Netherlands in the

3102
02:45:03,410 --> 02:45:08,629
Speaker 8: past few months, like downright terrorist attacks. But a lot

3103
02:45:08,670 --> 02:45:13,230
Speaker 8: of these local anti-immigrant protests, at least in the Netherlands,

3104
02:45:13,830 --> 02:45:17,010
Speaker 8: a core part is the defense groups that the three

3105
02:45:17,050 --> 02:45:20,420
Speaker 8: of us spoke about. They just go to small municipalities,

3106
02:45:20,920 --> 02:45:25,740
Speaker 8: stir shit up and make this whole anti-immigration sentiment seem

3107
02:45:25,820 --> 02:45:31,020
Speaker 8: so much bigger than it actually is. It's people taking

3108
02:45:31,060 --> 02:45:33,080
Speaker 8: a day off of work to go protest in some

3109
02:45:33,360 --> 02:45:37,459
Speaker 8: municipality that they don't live in and do violence and

3110
02:45:37,480 --> 02:45:39,839
Speaker 8: then claim like, oh, look at all these violent immigrants.

3111
02:45:40,459 --> 02:45:43,940
Speaker 8: Don't look at me throwing heavy fireworks at people, which

3112
02:45:44,000 --> 02:45:47,230
Speaker 8: is a thing. I've had fireworks thrown at me. By

3113
02:45:47,250 --> 02:45:48,490
Speaker 8: those people, it's not fun.

3114
02:45:48,790 --> 02:45:51,949
Speaker 1: Yeah. It's preferable to being shot, I suppose, but.

3115
02:45:52,170 --> 02:45:52,490
Speaker 5: You know.

3116
02:45:53,090 --> 02:45:53,789
Speaker 4: That's a low bar.

3117
02:45:53,810 --> 02:45:56,150
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's still deeply unenjoyable.

3118
02:45:56,830 --> 02:45:57,010
Speaker 7: Yeah.

3119
02:45:57,570 --> 02:46:02,000
Speaker 1: Also, like, our communities are so intertwined, even more so

3120
02:46:02,020 --> 02:46:04,720
Speaker 1: than the US, right? Like, we don't have, in much

3121
02:46:04,780 --> 02:46:10,000
Speaker 1: of Europe, this long history of redlining and using capitalism

3122
02:46:10,580 --> 02:46:14,400
Speaker 1: to do racial segregation. To an extent, we still have, like,

3123
02:46:14,480 --> 02:46:17,910
Speaker 1: neighbourhoods where people will want to live around services that

3124
02:46:17,930 --> 02:46:19,390
Speaker 1: they like to access, right? If you like to go

3125
02:46:19,450 --> 02:46:21,520
Speaker 1: to the mosque, it makes sense to live relatively near

3126
02:46:21,540 --> 02:46:25,220
Speaker 1: to the mosque. If you want to go to the Gurdwara,

3127
02:46:25,260 --> 02:46:28,820
Speaker 1: same thing, right? But, like, the idea that you could

3128
02:46:28,879 --> 02:46:32,390
Speaker 1: tear these communities apart is just so fucking... Like, it's

3129
02:46:32,570 --> 02:46:36,330
Speaker 1: complete pie-in-the-sky shit from people whose, like, entire politics is

3130
02:46:36,370 --> 02:46:39,589
Speaker 1: informed by the internet and watching what's happening in America.

3131
02:46:40,270 --> 02:46:45,100
Speaker 1: You could no more, like, tear immigrants... from European cities

3132
02:46:45,200 --> 02:46:48,119
Speaker 1: and have them function, then you could be like, all right,

3133
02:46:48,160 --> 02:46:50,940
Speaker 1: we're doing away with everyone who was born on an

3134
02:46:51,040 --> 02:46:54,910
Speaker 1: even-numbered day. Our fucking society doesn't function without each other.

3135
02:46:55,770 --> 02:46:58,350
Speaker 4: And again, you just fall into this trap of how

3136
02:46:58,390 --> 02:47:01,010
Speaker 4: are we defining this? Who are you talking about exactly?

3137
02:47:01,090 --> 02:47:02,449
Speaker 4: How far back are you going?

3138
02:47:02,650 --> 02:47:05,230
Speaker 1: Who counts? Yeah, I mean, it seems like what they

3139
02:47:05,250 --> 02:47:08,209
Speaker 1: want is like the apartheid thing, right? Which even apartheid

3140
02:47:08,230 --> 02:47:10,660
Speaker 1: got into its own questions of how do we define...

3141
02:47:10,260 --> 02:47:11,010
Speaker 1: People's race.

3142
02:47:11,010 --> 02:47:14,459
Speaker 4: It became very messy and the government was deciding people's

3143
02:47:14,459 --> 02:47:16,379
Speaker 4: race with you know without their input and it was

3144
02:47:16,700 --> 02:47:18,280
Speaker 4: it was not a great situation.

3145
02:47:18,420 --> 02:47:21,780
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah but like the uh the idea that our

3146
02:47:21,820 --> 02:47:26,940
Speaker 1: society could function without people who aren't white or even

3147
02:47:26,990 --> 02:47:29,370
Speaker 1: people who have arrived in one or two generations ago

3148
02:47:29,450 --> 02:47:32,990
Speaker 1: it's just pure and ridiculous like these people fucking suck

3149
02:47:33,050 --> 02:47:35,890
Speaker 1: i don't know like things like unserious people.

3150
02:47:36,240 --> 02:47:38,789
Speaker 8: On a previous job of mine, I met this woman

3151
02:47:38,830 --> 02:47:41,129
Speaker 8: from Afghanistan and she was allowed to move to the

3152
02:47:41,170 --> 02:47:44,690
Speaker 8: Netherlands because she worked, I think, for like NATO or

3153
02:47:44,790 --> 02:47:48,650
Speaker 8: an NGO. Because we all were also involved in Afghanistan,

3154
02:47:48,709 --> 02:47:52,840
Speaker 8: of course. And she was so incredibly pleasant to work with.

3155
02:47:53,540 --> 02:47:55,920
Speaker 8: All Dutch people speak English pretty much as a rule.

3156
02:47:56,420 --> 02:47:58,920
Speaker 8: So if someone doesn't speak Dutch very well, we tend

3157
02:47:58,940 --> 02:48:02,050
Speaker 8: to like immediately turn to English. And she was very

3158
02:48:02,090 --> 02:48:05,010
Speaker 8: much like, Please talk Dutch to me. I want to

3159
02:48:05,050 --> 02:48:06,470
Speaker 8: work here in a different job.

3160
02:48:06,670 --> 02:48:09,070
Speaker 4: That's so brave of her to want to learn Dutch.

3161
02:48:09,310 --> 02:48:13,650
Speaker 1: Yes. I tried to discourage her. It did not work.

3162
02:48:14,709 --> 02:48:15,570
Speaker 1: Garbage language.

3163
02:48:16,629 --> 02:48:20,789
Speaker 8: I'd rather have a hundred of her than whatever pathetic

3164
02:48:21,290 --> 02:48:27,300
Speaker 8: defense groups or whatever racist shit. Because she's actually contributing

3165
02:48:27,379 --> 02:48:30,240
Speaker 8: and trying her very best. And these people are just

3166
02:48:30,280 --> 02:48:35,349
Speaker 8: out there, you know, stirring shit up the fascists but

3167
02:48:35,790 --> 02:48:38,910
Speaker 8: much respect to that particular woman she won't hear this

3168
02:48:38,970 --> 02:48:40,610
Speaker 8: but beside the point.

3169
02:48:40,709 --> 02:48:42,770
Speaker 4: No but there are hundreds of thousands of people just

3170
02:48:42,810 --> 02:48:44,360
Speaker 4: like her right contributing to their.

3171
02:48:44,270 --> 02:48:47,940
Speaker 2: Communities yeah exactly yeah that was it was very valuable

3172
02:48:48,080 --> 02:48:50,340
Speaker 2: work at the time uh what we did what we

3173
02:48:50,379 --> 02:48:53,160
Speaker 2: did like it was necessary it was necessary.

3174
02:48:53,100 --> 02:48:54,420
Speaker 4: Even if the work that she was doing was not

3175
02:48:54,920 --> 02:48:57,180
Speaker 4: valuable to humanity on a broader scale like there are

3176
02:48:57,300 --> 02:49:00,360
Speaker 4: hundreds of thousands of people like that woman who've gone

3177
02:49:00,400 --> 02:49:02,820
Speaker 4: to a place where they were not born and contributed

3178
02:49:02,860 --> 02:49:05,670
Speaker 4: to a community and that's just not part of the

3179
02:49:05,709 --> 02:49:07,830
Speaker 4: conversation for these people because they don't care because they

3180
02:49:07,850 --> 02:49:10,770
Speaker 4: don't see people like her as human beings.

3181
02:49:10,910 --> 02:49:13,209
Speaker 1: Yeah and also because they're not part of their communities

3182
02:49:13,290 --> 02:49:16,160
Speaker 1: right because they're odious pieces of shit like all their

3183
02:49:16,180 --> 02:49:19,449
Speaker 1: friends are on storm front or what have you Because

3184
02:49:19,530 --> 02:49:21,840
Speaker 1: no one wants to be around hateful bigots like this.

3185
02:49:21,900 --> 02:49:24,960
Speaker 4: No, they're in a Twitter space going, yes, exactly, to

3186
02:49:25,000 --> 02:49:25,400
Speaker 4: each other.

3187
02:49:25,420 --> 02:49:25,500
Speaker 6: Yeah.

3188
02:49:25,920 --> 02:49:27,760
Speaker 4: But they don't have real world community.

3189
02:49:28,260 --> 02:49:31,120
Speaker 1: This perspective doesn't survive contact with the outside world.

3190
02:49:31,410 --> 02:49:33,630
Speaker 4: No, but they're trying to force it on all of

3191
02:49:33,709 --> 02:49:38,110
Speaker 4: us through bullshit like this, by shoehorning this discourse into

3192
02:49:38,150 --> 02:49:41,230
Speaker 4: respectable places and hoping some of that respectability rubs off

3193
02:49:41,330 --> 02:49:41,520
Speaker 4: on it.

3194
02:49:42,290 --> 02:49:44,660
Speaker 1: You're so succinct, Molly. I'm jealous.

3195
02:49:55,900 --> 02:49:59,280
Speaker 8: To get back to the last bit, because ultimately the

3196
02:49:59,300 --> 02:50:01,760
Speaker 8: entirety of the Save Europe Act is exactly what you

3197
02:50:01,800 --> 02:50:06,000
Speaker 8: just said. It's shoehorning it in, making it normal to

3198
02:50:06,050 --> 02:50:11,450
Speaker 8: have seemingly civil conversations around something that is, no matter

3199
02:50:11,510 --> 02:50:15,129
Speaker 8: which way you turn a phrase, it's inherently violent in

3200
02:50:15,190 --> 02:50:20,670
Speaker 8: multiple ways. To people who don't deserve it and have

3201
02:50:20,709 --> 02:50:24,410
Speaker 8: done nothing but trying to exist in a different place.

3202
02:50:24,970 --> 02:50:27,010
Speaker 4: No, but if they can make us all have this

3203
02:50:27,090 --> 02:50:32,490
Speaker 4: conversation in our respectable avenues of civil discourse, then it

3204
02:50:32,530 --> 02:50:34,810
Speaker 4: becomes a normal thing that we have to talk about.

3205
02:50:34,830 --> 02:50:36,410
Speaker 4: And if we have to talk about it, maybe more

3206
02:50:36,470 --> 02:50:39,609
Speaker 4: people will be convinced by it. Whereas if you relegate

3207
02:50:39,629 --> 02:50:42,610
Speaker 4: this shit to Stormfront, where it belongs, normal people aren't

3208
02:50:42,709 --> 02:50:45,110
Speaker 4: coming into contact with it and becoming convinced by it

3209
02:50:45,410 --> 02:50:47,630
Speaker 4: or tricked into it or mainstreaming it.

3210
02:50:47,750 --> 02:50:47,910
Speaker 6: Yeah.

3211
02:50:48,890 --> 02:50:54,050
Speaker 8: On October 7th, 2004, Ava tweeted the following. So cool,

3212
02:50:54,090 --> 02:50:57,109
Speaker 8: this timeline of the main accounts pushing the remigration debate

3213
02:50:57,170 --> 02:50:59,769
Speaker 8: on Axe this year. Proud to be on the list

3214
02:50:59,790 --> 02:51:04,970
Speaker 8: with Alternative for Deutschland, Martin Selner, Elon Musk, Renaud Camus

3215
02:51:05,070 --> 02:51:08,480
Speaker 8: and Donald Trump. Together, we're pushing the Overton window in

3216
02:51:08,540 --> 02:51:09,080
Speaker 8: real time.

3217
02:51:09,420 --> 02:51:11,129
Speaker 1: So she knows what she's doing.

3218
02:51:11,150 --> 02:51:12,050
Speaker 8: A hundred percent.

3219
02:51:12,190 --> 02:51:15,170
Speaker 4: Not only does she know, she said it. She knows

3220
02:51:15,209 --> 02:51:16,910
Speaker 4: what she's doing, but she's not smart enough to know

3221
02:51:16,950 --> 02:51:18,130
Speaker 4: she shouldn't tell you she knows.

3222
02:51:19,470 --> 02:51:19,629
Speaker 1: Yeah.

3223
02:51:20,110 --> 02:51:22,879
Speaker 4: You're not supposed to say, I know all I'm doing

3224
02:51:22,920 --> 02:51:25,500
Speaker 4: is pushing the Overton window. I'm here to throw a

3225
02:51:25,540 --> 02:51:27,220
Speaker 4: brick through the Overton fucking window.

3226
02:51:27,240 --> 02:51:30,220
Speaker 1: Girl, shut up. My job is to push you all

3227
02:51:30,240 --> 02:51:30,760
Speaker 1: to the right.

3228
02:51:31,379 --> 02:51:34,080
Speaker 4: My job is to defenestrate you through the Overton window.

3229
02:51:34,100 --> 02:51:34,180
Speaker 5: Yeah.

3230
02:51:36,550 --> 02:51:39,610
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say that talking about the Overton window, right,

3231
02:51:39,629 --> 02:51:41,070
Speaker 1: and talking about this being a list on Twitter is

3232
02:51:41,110 --> 02:51:44,029
Speaker 1: a perfect illustration of how the alienation that people feel

3233
02:51:44,129 --> 02:51:46,950
Speaker 1: under capitalism has made them so vulnerable to this shit.

3234
02:51:47,590 --> 02:51:50,920
Speaker 1: Because I understand that it is fucking hard for people

3235
02:51:50,959 --> 02:51:54,020
Speaker 1: in Europe as it is here, right? Existing as a

3236
02:51:54,100 --> 02:51:57,300
Speaker 1: working person is fucking hard. Paying your bills is hard.

3237
02:51:57,640 --> 02:52:01,170
Speaker 1: It's not getting any easier, especially now that petrol slash

3238
02:52:01,200 --> 02:52:05,940
Speaker 1: gas is even more expensive. But like, Because people are

3239
02:52:05,980 --> 02:52:10,060
Speaker 1: increasingly alienated, it's easier and easier to do this scapegoating bullshit.

3240
02:52:10,760 --> 02:52:13,300
Speaker 1: It just happens that we've found someone who's stupid enough

3241
02:52:13,320 --> 02:52:16,939
Speaker 1: to basically say that. But that is the basis of

3242
02:52:17,000 --> 02:52:20,310
Speaker 1: the entire right around the world right now, is blaming

3243
02:52:20,340 --> 02:52:22,890
Speaker 1: the things that capitalism has done to us on people

3244
02:52:22,930 --> 02:52:25,090
Speaker 1: who have suffered more under capitalism than anyone.

3245
02:52:25,410 --> 02:52:29,090
Speaker 4: And Elon Musk's ownership of Twitter has made spreading that

3246
02:52:29,170 --> 02:52:33,080
Speaker 4: message so much easier than it would have been otherwise.

3247
02:52:33,600 --> 02:52:37,760
Speaker 4: But he's like, he's algorithmically boosting and disseminating this at

3248
02:52:37,940 --> 02:52:39,700
Speaker 4: a scale that's previously unheard of.

3249
02:52:40,070 --> 02:52:40,279
Speaker 5: Yeah.

3250
02:52:40,440 --> 02:52:41,830
Speaker 4: For these kinds of ideas.

3251
02:52:42,470 --> 02:52:45,970
Speaker 1: Especially when you've got so many journalists on Twitter so much.

3252
02:52:46,410 --> 02:52:48,670
Speaker 1: Like that's where they get a sense of the debate. Yeah.

3253
02:52:49,070 --> 02:52:52,130
Speaker 4: There yeah and because these journalists are so used to

3254
02:52:52,190 --> 02:52:54,690
Speaker 4: pulling their stories from just like shit they saw on

3255
02:52:54,730 --> 02:52:57,230
Speaker 4: twitter yeah that they think these ideas must be very

3256
02:52:57,270 --> 02:53:00,000
Speaker 4: popular we must engage with them we must write a

3257
02:53:00,160 --> 02:53:03,160
Speaker 4: million fucking stories about these posts we saw on twitter

3258
02:53:03,500 --> 02:53:07,379
Speaker 4: because they obviously represent a very important discourse for society

3259
02:53:07,420 --> 02:53:10,240
Speaker 4: right now and they don't they don't stop doing it.

3260
02:53:10,760 --> 02:53:14,359
Speaker 8: Yeah Speaking of journalists, please follow me on Blue Sky

3261
02:53:14,540 --> 02:53:21,000
Speaker 8: at Two Sober Possums if you want to criticize my poor.

3262
02:53:20,800 --> 02:53:21,940
Speaker 1: Attempt at journalism.

3263
02:53:22,420 --> 02:53:24,390
Speaker 8: But yeah, I wanted to take this last bit to

3264
02:53:24,410 --> 02:53:28,470
Speaker 8: highlight some instances of political violence in the Netherlands. All

3265
02:53:28,490 --> 02:53:33,129
Speaker 8: of these incidents happened between late April and now, this year.

3266
02:53:33,350 --> 02:53:33,830
Speaker 1: Oh my God.

3267
02:53:34,530 --> 02:53:37,570
Speaker 8: I'm not attributing it to the Safe Europe Act because

3268
02:53:38,330 --> 02:53:41,820
Speaker 8: the discourse has been toxic for a while now. But

3269
02:53:42,140 --> 02:53:45,440
Speaker 8: I also can say that it has a non-zero effect

3270
02:53:45,980 --> 02:53:49,340
Speaker 8: because maybe I've had my head in the sand for years,

3271
02:53:49,910 --> 02:53:53,490
Speaker 8: but this level of violence is pretty unheard of here.

3272
02:53:53,930 --> 02:53:55,550
Speaker 4: And it's all part of the same sort of ambient

3273
02:53:56,110 --> 02:53:59,010
Speaker 4: raising of the temperature on this topic. And they know

3274
02:53:59,030 --> 02:54:01,010
Speaker 4: they're contributing to that. So, of course, you can't say

3275
02:54:01,050 --> 02:54:04,470
Speaker 4: they're directly responsible for these attacks. They're not directing them,

3276
02:54:05,070 --> 02:54:07,289
Speaker 4: but they're raising the temperature and they know this contributes

3277
02:54:07,330 --> 02:54:09,940
Speaker 4: to that. Especially, I don't know, a guy who received

3278
02:54:09,980 --> 02:54:13,000
Speaker 4: a large sum of money from Brenton Tarrant shortly before

3279
02:54:13,060 --> 02:54:15,660
Speaker 4: he murdered 51 people in two mosques in New Zealand.

3280
02:54:15,800 --> 02:54:17,359
Speaker 4: I don't know. Maybe they know what they're doing.

3281
02:54:17,379 --> 02:54:19,430
Speaker 1: Anyway. Okay.

3282
02:54:19,930 --> 02:54:22,690
Speaker 8: I'm not going too deeply into these instances because then

3283
02:54:22,750 --> 02:54:25,750
Speaker 8: we'd have, like, we'll add another hour or two to

3284
02:54:25,850 --> 02:54:28,449
Speaker 8: this already long recording session.

3285
02:54:28,570 --> 02:54:28,869
Speaker 1: Yeah.

3286
02:54:29,270 --> 02:54:32,340
Speaker 8: I'm also sorry for all the Dutch words because our

3287
02:54:32,379 --> 02:54:34,240
Speaker 8: towns are not named in English words.

3288
02:54:34,860 --> 02:54:35,020
Speaker 3: Yeah.

3289
02:54:35,500 --> 02:54:39,490
Speaker 8: So, the town of Loosdrecht. There was going to be

3290
02:54:39,790 --> 02:54:44,709
Speaker 8: a migrant center there. Severe destruction at the old municipal building,

3291
02:54:44,990 --> 02:54:48,450
Speaker 8: which was used to house them. Doors and windows destroyed

3292
02:54:49,010 --> 02:54:52,390
Speaker 8: near the end of April. In early May, also in Loosdrecht,

3293
02:54:52,550 --> 02:54:55,430
Speaker 8: the same building caught on fire due to torches and

3294
02:54:55,480 --> 02:54:57,260
Speaker 8: heavy fireworks being thrown at it.

3295
02:54:57,900 --> 02:54:58,379
Speaker 6: Jesus.

3296
02:54:58,440 --> 02:55:02,699
Speaker 1: Migrants were inside this building when it caught on fire.

3297
02:55:02,980 --> 02:55:03,119
Speaker 7: Fuck.

3298
02:55:03,860 --> 02:55:07,390
Speaker 1: To my knowledge the harm to people was minimal or

3299
02:55:07,430 --> 02:55:11,690
Speaker 1: non-existent but still they threw fireworks and torches to the

3300
02:55:11,750 --> 02:55:16,490
Speaker 1: point that this building caught on fire yeah the psychological damage.

3301
02:55:16,190 --> 02:55:19,220
Speaker 8: Is still very real yeah okay this is my personal

3302
02:55:19,250 --> 02:55:23,459
Speaker 8: little tangent but our prime minister has not called these

3303
02:55:23,540 --> 02:55:28,140
Speaker 8: things terrorism well by any definition of the word this

3304
02:55:28,200 --> 02:55:31,920
Speaker 8: is fucking terrorism yeah like this is political violence and

3305
02:55:32,320 --> 02:55:34,910
Speaker 8: used to either scare people away or scare people into

3306
02:55:34,940 --> 02:55:37,770
Speaker 8: submission and bypassing the democratic.

3307
02:55:37,370 --> 02:55:39,270
Speaker 1: Process in the meantime.

3308
02:55:39,690 --> 02:55:43,109
Speaker 8: So also in early May in the town of Engelen,

3309
02:55:43,930 --> 02:55:48,129
Speaker 8: an explosion caused by heavy fireworks destroyed mainly glass windows

3310
02:55:48,310 --> 02:55:52,820
Speaker 8: at a center for underage migrants. Further, houses and carts

3311
02:55:53,040 --> 02:55:58,480
Speaker 8: of either pro-migration citizens, note not activists, just citizens with

3312
02:55:58,500 --> 02:56:02,390
Speaker 8: an opinion, were vandalized with slurs and threats. One of

3313
02:56:02,430 --> 02:56:06,230
Speaker 8: the cars was stolen and driven into a body of water. Again,

3314
02:56:06,510 --> 02:56:10,470
Speaker 8: this was minor vandalism. Not minor, this was vandalism.

3315
02:56:10,570 --> 02:56:12,270
Speaker 1: According to our PM.

3316
02:56:12,820 --> 02:56:15,420
Speaker 8: Among the targets were people who were not even explicitly

3317
02:56:15,480 --> 02:56:18,860
Speaker 8: in favor of having this center, but simply stated that

3318
02:56:18,879 --> 02:56:21,460
Speaker 8: they had the desire to have a good faith debate

3319
02:56:21,500 --> 02:56:28,379
Speaker 8: and conversation around it, which is reasonable. May 13th, Loosdrecht again. Again,

3320
02:56:28,459 --> 02:56:31,619
Speaker 8: torches and fireworks everywhere. the fire department had to come

3321
02:56:31,680 --> 02:56:35,350
Speaker 8: in at that time. Also May 13th in another town

3322
02:56:35,410 --> 02:56:40,810
Speaker 8: called Appeldoorn, riots for five consecutive days, including abuse of

3323
02:56:40,890 --> 02:56:44,820
Speaker 8: police and security. Later in May, fireworks were thrown through

3324
02:56:44,840 --> 02:56:47,240
Speaker 8: the windows of the municipal building and theater in the

3325
02:56:47,280 --> 02:56:51,560
Speaker 8: town of IJsselstein, the town of Uithjeist at roughly the

3326
02:56:51,600 --> 02:56:55,750
Speaker 8: same time. A explosive constructed out of fireworks was thrown

3327
02:56:56,100 --> 02:57:00,040
Speaker 8: through the window during a municipal meeting. And this was

3328
02:57:00,120 --> 02:57:03,550
Speaker 8: part of a larger set of violent incidents, again, mainly

3329
02:57:03,570 --> 02:57:08,750
Speaker 8: involving like torches and fireworks. June 18th, a pipe bomb

3330
02:57:08,950 --> 02:57:12,220
Speaker 8: was found at a migrant center in nunen the explosive

3331
02:57:12,340 --> 02:57:14,300
Speaker 8: ordnance unit had to cut had to be a cold

3332
02:57:14,340 --> 02:57:17,080
Speaker 8: in in order to clean it up windows were broken

3333
02:57:17,120 --> 02:57:20,580
Speaker 8: and a small fire broke out this was the third

3334
02:57:20,620 --> 02:57:24,850
Speaker 8: instance of destruction at this particular building not great I've

3335
02:57:24,900 --> 02:57:28,640
Speaker 8: witnessed some of these people protesting, and I'm using the

3336
02:57:28,900 --> 02:57:33,940
Speaker 8: heaviest air quotes possible there. It's just fucking hooligans wanting

3337
02:57:33,959 --> 02:57:38,240
Speaker 8: to riot. Racist fucking hooligans as well. The Save Europe

3338
02:57:38,300 --> 02:57:40,960
Speaker 8: Act is not explicitly calling for this.

3339
02:57:41,580 --> 02:57:42,260
Speaker 4: It doesn't have to.

3340
02:57:42,320 --> 02:57:43,100
Speaker 1: It doesn't have to.

3341
02:57:43,300 --> 02:57:45,800
Speaker 4: It doesn't have to, and they know that.

3342
02:57:45,879 --> 02:57:47,240
Speaker 1: It's laying the groundwork.

3343
02:57:47,260 --> 02:57:50,220
Speaker 4: They know it's more effective for them to just raise

3344
02:57:50,260 --> 02:57:52,940
Speaker 4: the temperature and put the implication out there.

3345
02:57:53,720 --> 02:57:56,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then wave their hands in the air and say, oh,

3346
02:57:56,660 --> 02:57:57,800
Speaker 1: I don't know how this happened.

3347
02:57:58,780 --> 02:58:01,039
Speaker 4: I didn't say that. I never said they should do that.

3348
02:58:01,440 --> 02:58:04,400
Speaker 1: But you know. No, you didn't give these people a

3349
02:58:04,459 --> 02:58:05,599
Speaker 1: baby kicking class.

3350
02:58:05,680 --> 02:58:08,720
Speaker 4: There's no proof Hitler called for the industrialized mass murder

3351
02:58:08,760 --> 02:58:11,759
Speaker 4: of the Jews. There's no proof that Hitler explicitly directed

3352
02:58:11,800 --> 02:58:13,860
Speaker 4: for the Holocaust to happen, is there? But he's still

3353
02:58:13,900 --> 02:58:14,830
Speaker 4: responsible for it.

3354
02:58:15,200 --> 02:58:17,980
Speaker 1: That's what they're going for, right? They're going for like

3355
02:58:18,740 --> 02:58:24,320
Speaker 1: a structuralist approach. To mass violence against migrants, like creating

3356
02:58:24,379 --> 02:58:26,100
Speaker 1: a structure where it takes care of itself.

3357
02:58:26,160 --> 02:58:29,000
Speaker 4: You create the conditions where it becomes inevitable.

3358
02:58:29,370 --> 02:58:31,810
Speaker 1: Yeah. And then you deny responsibility.

3359
02:58:32,050 --> 02:58:34,449
Speaker 8: You're not giving them the baby kicking class, but you're

3360
02:58:34,490 --> 02:58:37,450
Speaker 8: giving them a bunch of babies and pointing them towards

3361
02:58:37,510 --> 02:58:40,310
Speaker 8: the building where they teach the baby kicking class.

3362
02:58:40,980 --> 02:58:44,039
Speaker 4: Again, there's a reason it matters so much that he

3363
02:58:44,080 --> 02:58:46,860
Speaker 4: was emailing back and forth with Brent and Tarrant because

3364
02:58:46,879 --> 02:58:49,800
Speaker 4: they have the exact same ideas about what the problem is.

3365
02:58:50,440 --> 02:58:54,810
Speaker 4: They are just personally going about different versions of the solution.

3366
02:58:54,830 --> 02:58:55,590
Speaker 6: Yeah.

3367
02:58:56,470 --> 02:59:00,310
Speaker 8: Yeah, that was the most horrifying thing about it. And also,

3368
02:59:00,730 --> 02:59:02,870
Speaker 8: I'm so disappointed in so much media here in the

3369
02:59:02,910 --> 02:59:06,590
Speaker 8: Netherlands that any time they even mention Martin Sellner, the

3370
02:59:06,690 --> 02:59:08,740
Speaker 8: best they can do is that he received that donation.

3371
02:59:09,250 --> 02:59:12,760
Speaker 8: But nothing about, oh, he destroyed evidence of his contact

3372
02:59:12,800 --> 02:59:16,010
Speaker 8: with him. He possibly would have met him. they agreed

3373
02:59:16,110 --> 02:59:19,230
Speaker 8: on stuff while tarrant was radical enough to plan and

3374
02:59:19,310 --> 02:59:23,550
Speaker 8: it's like a fucking massacre it's lazy journalism yeah like

3375
02:59:23,770 --> 02:59:25,970
Speaker 8: i'm sure i make plenty mistakes but i'm also not

3376
02:59:26,150 --> 02:59:28,060
Speaker 8: making my living out of it or claiming that i'm

3377
02:59:28,250 --> 02:59:32,080
Speaker 8: super great at it but yeah you you could at

3378
02:59:32,120 --> 02:59:36,060
Speaker 8: least pretend you're going beyond something as surface level as

3379
02:59:37,000 --> 02:59:40,359
Speaker 8: oh he made a donation okay fair that's it It's like, no,

3380
02:59:40,379 --> 02:59:44,310
Speaker 8: these guys were ideologically aligned enough to possibly meet.

3381
02:59:44,760 --> 02:59:48,070
Speaker 4: And that is a very explicit and obvious connection, right?

3382
02:59:48,110 --> 02:59:51,410
Speaker 4: But all these other attacks and these people being burned

3383
02:59:51,450 --> 02:59:56,410
Speaker 4: in buildings, that's the same relationship, just without the exchange

3384
02:59:56,450 --> 02:59:56,789
Speaker 4: of money.

3385
02:59:57,209 --> 03:00:00,590
Speaker 8: You can only tell people that some people will finally

3386
03:00:00,629 --> 03:00:04,450
Speaker 8: come to kill them unless they come into action, which

3387
03:00:04,530 --> 03:00:07,890
Speaker 8: is not a legal thing. Not provable in the court

3388
03:00:07,930 --> 03:00:10,010
Speaker 8: of law inciting people to do violence.

3389
03:00:10,470 --> 03:00:13,590
Speaker 4: And I'm not arguing legal liability. I'm not arguing legal liability.

3390
03:00:13,610 --> 03:00:17,370
Speaker 4: I'm just saying there is a moral and ideological culpability here.

3391
03:00:17,410 --> 03:00:21,390
Speaker 4: That there is a visible relationship between these things that

3392
03:00:21,430 --> 03:00:25,010
Speaker 4: exists outside the framework of legal culpability, legal liability here.

3393
03:00:25,030 --> 03:00:28,830
Speaker 4: But there is a relationship between these events. And they

3394
03:00:28,920 --> 03:00:31,129
Speaker 4: know that. And we need to be honest about it.

3395
03:00:31,260 --> 03:00:35,100
Speaker 1: It's a moral culpability. I hate the facade.

3396
03:00:35,530 --> 03:00:37,930
Speaker 8: That they put up like oh this is all anti-democratic

3397
03:00:37,950 --> 03:00:40,970
Speaker 8: that they cancelled it and uh they're just out for

3398
03:00:41,010 --> 03:00:44,400
Speaker 8: us like i i hate that i even have to

3399
03:00:44,560 --> 03:00:46,330
Speaker 8: sort of engage on their terms.

3400
03:00:46,400 --> 03:00:49,180
Speaker 4: You don't that's the beauty of it you don't.

3401
03:00:49,360 --> 03:00:51,400
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah you don't you don't yeah you don't have

3402
03:00:51,420 --> 03:00:54,800
Speaker 1: to debate these people in their like debate where they

3403
03:00:54,820 --> 03:00:56,360
Speaker 1: don't acknowledge facts like no.

3404
03:00:56,760 --> 03:01:00,379
Speaker 8: But also look oh also broader because they have a platform.

3405
03:01:00,500 --> 03:01:03,379
Speaker 8: They can say things and you can ignore it, but

3406
03:01:03,440 --> 03:01:05,430
Speaker 8: other people who enjoy it will read it.

3407
03:01:05,420 --> 03:01:05,600
Speaker 5: Right.

3408
03:01:05,620 --> 03:01:07,530
Speaker 4: And I'm not saying ignore it and it will go away.

3409
03:01:07,570 --> 03:01:11,349
Speaker 4: I'm just saying engaging with the existence of these ideas

3410
03:01:11,709 --> 03:01:14,010
Speaker 4: does not mean you have to engage with what they

3411
03:01:14,070 --> 03:01:17,330
Speaker 4: are saying in the way that they want you to.

3412
03:01:17,370 --> 03:01:19,140
Speaker 4: You don't have to engage in a good faith debate

3413
03:01:19,190 --> 03:01:23,640
Speaker 4: with them, with their ideas, with their stated purpose. You

3414
03:01:23,660 --> 03:01:26,560
Speaker 4: can engage with the idea that you know is underneath.

3415
03:01:26,140 --> 03:01:29,400
Speaker 8: Of But I mean, more in the sense of like

3416
03:01:29,980 --> 03:01:34,039
Speaker 8: engaging with it on a, in the discourse, because other

3417
03:01:34,080 --> 03:01:36,340
Speaker 8: people will pick up on the ideas. And if you

3418
03:01:36,360 --> 03:01:39,620
Speaker 8: want to have trying to have a civil conversation with

3419
03:01:39,660 --> 03:01:43,640
Speaker 8: people who've been influenced by the ideas, then like indirectly,

3420
03:01:43,680 --> 03:01:46,290
Speaker 8: you still have to engage with them. And even that

3421
03:01:46,370 --> 03:01:51,050
Speaker 8: is becoming difficult because they become these two like different realities.

3422
03:01:51,810 --> 03:01:51,970
Speaker 7: Yeah.

3423
03:01:52,820 --> 03:01:56,100
Speaker 4: Because they're not interested in having a debate with you.

3424
03:01:57,459 --> 03:02:01,039
Speaker 4: At the risk of reading another long quote, this reminds

3425
03:02:01,060 --> 03:02:03,379
Speaker 4: me of something that I come back to a lot

3426
03:02:03,600 --> 03:02:06,080
Speaker 4: in this particular debate, in this debate of do we

3427
03:02:06,120 --> 03:02:07,949
Speaker 4: have to engage with them? Do we have to debate them?

3428
03:02:08,990 --> 03:02:11,810
Speaker 4: The answer is no. And the question has been answered.

3429
03:02:11,870 --> 03:02:15,670
Speaker 4: So Sartre wrote an essay in 1946. So in post-war France,

3430
03:02:16,310 --> 03:02:19,340
Speaker 4: Nazis had occupied France and there were a lot of

3431
03:02:19,350 --> 03:02:22,420
Speaker 4: Nazi sympathizers. The essay was called The Anti-Semite and Jew.

3432
03:02:23,290 --> 03:02:25,470
Speaker 4: And this is a passage that I come back to

3433
03:02:25,530 --> 03:02:30,209
Speaker 4: a lot for this particular question. Never believe that anti-Semites

3434
03:02:30,250 --> 03:02:33,970
Speaker 4: are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They

3435
03:02:34,030 --> 03:02:37,570
Speaker 4: know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But

3436
03:02:37,590 --> 03:02:40,580
Speaker 4: they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who

3437
03:02:40,610 --> 03:02:44,260
Speaker 4: is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words.

3438
03:02:45,080 --> 03:02:48,060
Speaker 4: The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like

3439
03:02:48,100 --> 03:02:50,720
Speaker 4: to play with their discourse, for by giving ridiculous reasons,

3440
03:02:51,040 --> 03:02:55,150
Speaker 4: they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in

3441
03:02:55,270 --> 03:02:58,029
Speaker 4: acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade

3442
03:02:58,090 --> 03:03:03,630
Speaker 4: by sound argument, but to intimidate and disconcert. They don't

3443
03:03:03,650 --> 03:03:06,430
Speaker 4: want to debate you. They want to change the terms

3444
03:03:06,490 --> 03:03:08,269
Speaker 4: of what that debate looks like.

3445
03:03:08,590 --> 03:03:09,260
Speaker 1: So don't do it.

3446
03:03:09,840 --> 03:03:12,420
Speaker 4: Don't do it. The question is, the question asked and answered.

3447
03:03:13,500 --> 03:03:15,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, like we don't have to engage them on terms

3448
03:03:15,720 --> 03:03:18,800
Speaker 1: of their choosing where they get to define the very

3449
03:03:18,900 --> 03:03:22,900
Speaker 1: like outlines of reality, which as you said, make results

3450
03:03:22,940 --> 03:03:25,720
Speaker 1: in something which is completely distinct from actual reality. And

3451
03:03:25,760 --> 03:03:29,360
Speaker 1: it's not worth arguing with someone. I think the Sartre

3452
03:03:29,400 --> 03:03:32,230
Speaker 1: quote would be a good place to finish up because

3453
03:03:32,280 --> 03:03:35,150
Speaker 1: I think that's probably the most pertinent thing people could

3454
03:03:35,190 --> 03:03:36,890
Speaker 1: take from this. I hope you all are not having

3455
03:03:36,930 --> 03:03:38,250
Speaker 1: to debate this with your families.

3456
03:03:38,830 --> 03:03:42,430
Speaker 4: So engage with, engage with the idea, take the threat seriously.

3457
03:03:42,840 --> 03:03:45,160
Speaker 4: But you don't have to engage with the guy trying

3458
03:03:45,220 --> 03:03:47,640
Speaker 4: to engage with you on a debate. Don't let him

3459
03:03:47,700 --> 03:03:48,279
Speaker 4: set the terms.

3460
03:03:48,780 --> 03:03:51,240
Speaker 1: Now, I fear I've come off a bit wrong there, but.

3461
03:03:51,720 --> 03:03:54,670
Speaker 4: I'm not arguing with you. This is, again, like for

3462
03:03:54,700 --> 03:03:56,550
Speaker 4: the listener, because I think this is a place a

3463
03:03:56,590 --> 03:03:59,410
Speaker 4: lot of people find themselves like, well, this guy is wrong.

3464
03:03:59,450 --> 03:04:01,350
Speaker 4: He's saying these things that are incorrect. I should have

3465
03:04:01,370 --> 03:04:04,310
Speaker 4: a factual debate with him. And that's what he wants.

3466
03:04:04,530 --> 03:04:07,530
Speaker 4: It's very tempting. And it may feel like the right

3467
03:04:07,570 --> 03:04:11,129
Speaker 4: thing to do, but you can't win. No matter how

3468
03:04:11,209 --> 03:04:12,990
Speaker 4: right you are, no matter how wrong he is, you

3469
03:04:13,010 --> 03:04:15,360
Speaker 4: will not win this debate because that's not the point.

3470
03:04:16,100 --> 03:04:19,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it is always worth reinforcing this, especially

3471
03:04:19,440 --> 03:04:21,240
Speaker 1: with this show. We have so many people who are

3472
03:04:21,260 --> 03:04:24,100
Speaker 1: so new to this and they haven't been doing this

3473
03:04:24,140 --> 03:04:25,320
Speaker 1: for 10, 15, 20 years. And it can seem.

3474
03:04:27,920 --> 03:04:29,640
Speaker 1: Oh, let's go on x.com and I'll tell them they're

3475
03:04:29,660 --> 03:04:32,320
Speaker 1: wrong and it'll be fine. But like, yeah, you're playing

3476
03:04:32,360 --> 03:04:35,260
Speaker 1: in the Nazi sandbox and they get to choose like

3477
03:04:35,300 --> 03:04:37,020
Speaker 1: how big the box is and what the sand looks like.

3478
03:04:37,080 --> 03:04:38,920
Speaker 1: It's not going to go well for you.

3479
03:04:39,320 --> 03:04:41,879
Speaker 4: And they want to have that argument with you because

3480
03:04:41,920 --> 03:04:44,720
Speaker 4: the louder the argument is, the more people will hear

3481
03:04:44,760 --> 03:04:47,119
Speaker 4: it and the more people will be exposed to the

3482
03:04:47,280 --> 03:04:48,760
Speaker 4: unserious shit that they are saying.

3483
03:04:48,940 --> 03:04:49,150
Speaker 10: Yeah.

3484
03:04:49,410 --> 03:04:51,030
Speaker 1: It dignifies them with a response.

3485
03:04:51,550 --> 03:04:53,250
Speaker 4: It makes it look like something worth arguing about.

3486
03:04:54,100 --> 03:04:55,640
Speaker 1: It's playing chess with a pigeon.

3487
03:04:55,959 --> 03:04:58,680
Speaker 8: No matter how good I am at chess, the pigeon

3488
03:04:58,720 --> 03:05:01,359
Speaker 8: will strut around on the board, knock over the pieces,

3489
03:05:01,540 --> 03:05:05,420
Speaker 8: take a big shit on the board, and strut around.

3490
03:05:05,220 --> 03:05:06,140
Speaker 1: Like it's victorious.

3491
03:05:07,000 --> 03:05:09,800
Speaker 4: And now the headline is, pigeon plays chess.

3492
03:05:10,120 --> 03:05:11,000
Speaker 1: Isn't that impressive?

3493
03:05:11,040 --> 03:05:13,539
Speaker 4: The pigeon, even if he didn't win, isn't it amazing

3494
03:05:13,560 --> 03:05:14,120
Speaker 4: that he played?

3495
03:05:15,840 --> 03:05:18,060
Speaker 1: I'm going to find a nice void to scream in

3496
03:05:18,300 --> 03:05:19,380
Speaker 1: for a good minute.

3497
03:05:20,480 --> 03:05:20,820
Speaker 11: Yeah.

3498
03:05:21,800 --> 03:05:22,740
Speaker 1: Okay. Dr.

3499
03:05:22,780 --> 03:05:24,680
Speaker 8: James Stout, anything you want to plug.

3500
03:05:25,379 --> 03:05:25,679
Speaker 4: Dr.

3501
03:05:25,720 --> 03:05:26,119
Speaker 3: Stout.

3502
03:05:26,200 --> 03:05:31,330
Speaker 1: Dr. Stout, yes. Yeah. Having shat on dissertations. Molly, you

3503
03:05:31,370 --> 03:05:33,410
Speaker 1: have a show where we could learn more about Nazis

3504
03:05:33,470 --> 03:05:35,330
Speaker 1: and the stupid shit they go after, wouldn't you?

3505
03:05:35,490 --> 03:05:38,410
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh. Actually, the reason I'm so passionate about

3506
03:05:38,470 --> 03:05:40,130
Speaker 4: not arguing with these people on their terms is because

3507
03:05:40,150 --> 03:05:42,820
Speaker 4: I've been writing a lot about race science and eugenics lately.

3508
03:05:42,860 --> 03:05:46,000
Speaker 4: And so this sort of Trojan horsing this argument into

3509
03:05:46,020 --> 03:05:48,720
Speaker 4: the discourse in bad faith is something I'm very mad

3510
03:05:48,760 --> 03:05:50,199
Speaker 4: about this week because I just read a bunch of

3511
03:05:50,240 --> 03:05:53,120
Speaker 4: books about race science. So if you want to hear

3512
03:05:53,140 --> 03:05:54,699
Speaker 4: about that, if you want to hear the fruit of

3513
03:05:54,750 --> 03:05:57,890
Speaker 4: that frustration, you can listen to Weird Little Guys wherever

3514
03:05:57,930 --> 03:05:58,870
Speaker 4: you get your podcasts.

3515
03:05:59,690 --> 03:06:00,090
Speaker 7: Oh, yeah.

3516
03:06:01,030 --> 03:06:04,060
Speaker 1: I have a podcast called Natural Causes where, unfortunately, I

3517
03:06:04,640 --> 03:06:07,900
Speaker 1: have made four episodes and I have already had to

3518
03:06:07,940 --> 03:06:10,760
Speaker 1: confront the scope of the fucking Neo-Rhodesians.

3519
03:06:10,959 --> 03:06:11,860
Speaker 4: They're everywhere.

3520
03:06:12,520 --> 03:06:15,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, the Washington State National Guard responding to the

3521
03:06:15,860 --> 03:06:17,760
Speaker 1: little giant fire specifically, I guess.

3522
03:06:17,980 --> 03:06:21,360
Speaker 4: For a country that never existed, wasn't very big, and

3523
03:06:21,470 --> 03:06:24,129
Speaker 4: only pretended to exist for a couple of years, if

3524
03:06:24,150 --> 03:06:26,230
Speaker 4: you're looking at Nazi shit, they just keep coming back.

3525
03:06:26,830 --> 03:06:30,709
Speaker 1: Yeah, also, if you're responding to a large fire, and

3526
03:06:30,750 --> 03:06:34,300
Speaker 1: you're thinking, which white nationalist flag should I take? That

3527
03:06:34,350 --> 03:06:37,779
Speaker 1: is probably the least appropriate, right? Like, if we consider

3528
03:06:37,820 --> 03:06:38,340
Speaker 1: how Rhodesia ended.

3529
03:06:38,360 --> 03:06:40,379
Speaker 4: What would you say would be the most appropriate white

3530
03:06:40,420 --> 03:06:41,100
Speaker 4: nationalist flag?

3531
03:06:41,440 --> 03:06:44,140
Speaker 1: One of the, surely one of the repurposed Viking ones,

3532
03:06:44,160 --> 03:06:45,940
Speaker 1: because they love to fire, right? Like if I was

3533
03:06:45,990 --> 03:06:48,449
Speaker 1: going that route. Good answer, good answer. Yeah, thank you.

3534
03:06:48,490 --> 03:06:51,050
Speaker 1: I think about this a lot. Yeah, if you work

3535
03:06:51,110 --> 03:06:53,030
Speaker 1: for the Seattle Times, you can listen to my podcast,

3536
03:06:53,070 --> 03:06:57,189
Speaker 1: deal my story and not attribute it. If you're anyone else, yeah,

3537
03:06:57,209 --> 03:06:58,830
Speaker 1: you can listen to my podcast and hear about how

3538
03:06:58,879 --> 03:06:59,820
Speaker 1: going outside is political.

3539
03:07:00,980 --> 03:07:04,820
Speaker 8: I don't have any other podcasts. I try to keep

3540
03:07:04,860 --> 03:07:06,990
Speaker 8: my mental health somewhat intact.

3541
03:07:07,270 --> 03:07:09,150
Speaker 1: What a way to live. I'm so happy for you.

3542
03:07:09,270 --> 03:07:10,530
Speaker 1: Insofar as that's possible.

3543
03:07:10,550 --> 03:07:10,619
Speaker 6: Wow.

3544
03:07:13,570 --> 03:07:14,630
Speaker 4: Sick burn on us, James.

3545
03:07:14,709 --> 03:07:18,170
Speaker 1: Yeah, owned again. I just have a much less tolerance

3546
03:07:18,230 --> 03:07:21,070
Speaker 1: for this than you guys. You're much better at it.

3547
03:07:21,709 --> 03:07:22,370
Speaker 1: It's broken us.

3548
03:07:22,510 --> 03:07:25,660
Speaker 8: So if you want to contact me for some reason,

3549
03:07:26,250 --> 03:07:28,820
Speaker 8: it's now on Blue Sky at Two Sober Possums.

3550
03:07:29,440 --> 03:07:31,540
Speaker 1: For the love of God, don't ask me for feed pics.

3551
03:07:32,000 --> 03:07:35,720
Speaker 1: I will not send them. And confront fascists in a

3552
03:07:35,780 --> 03:07:38,300
Speaker 1: peaceful way when they gather, I suppose.

3553
03:07:38,940 --> 03:07:54,530
Speaker 6: Yeah. This is It Could Happen Here, Executive Disorder, our

3554
03:07:54,550 --> 03:07:56,970
Speaker 6: weekly newscast covering what's happening in the White House, the

3555
03:07:57,050 --> 03:08:00,380
Speaker 6: crumbling world, and what this means for you. I'm Garrison Davis.

3556
03:08:00,400 --> 03:08:04,670
Speaker 6: Today I'm joined by James Stout, Mia Wong, and Robert Evans.

3557
03:08:04,920 --> 03:08:07,960
Speaker 6: This episode we are covering the week of October 14th

3558
03:08:08,100 --> 03:08:09,859
Speaker 6: to October 21st.

3559
03:08:10,740 --> 03:08:11,520
Speaker 1: Diva down.

3560
03:08:12,560 --> 03:08:16,660
Speaker 6: I am sad to report the new White House press secretary,

3561
03:08:17,100 --> 03:08:21,350
Speaker 6: Katie Zachariah, Was fired after just five days on the job.

3562
03:08:21,370 --> 03:08:21,830
Speaker 7: R.I.P.

3563
03:08:21,910 --> 03:08:24,070
Speaker 2: You guys can't see it, but I'm pouring a 40

3564
03:08:24,070 --> 03:08:25,170
Speaker 2: out for her right now.

3565
03:08:25,310 --> 03:08:27,410
Speaker 1: It is all over my floor. This is going to

3566
03:08:27,430 --> 03:08:28,490
Speaker 1: cause damage to the wood.

3567
03:08:29,090 --> 03:08:30,430
Speaker 6: This is half a Scaramucci.

3568
03:08:31,250 --> 03:08:34,170
Speaker 1: Is it half? I thought it was 70% of a Scaramucci.

3569
03:08:34,350 --> 03:08:36,379
Speaker 6: Half a Scaramucci. Scaramucci was 10 days.

3570
03:08:36,820 --> 03:08:38,440
Speaker 1: She was five days. She was only for five. I

3571
03:08:38,500 --> 03:08:40,099
Speaker 1: heard seven for some reason.

3572
03:08:41,060 --> 03:08:41,360
Speaker 12: Good to know.

3573
03:08:42,290 --> 03:08:45,769
Speaker 6: Maybe it's that Scaramucci did more press conferences because she

3574
03:08:45,830 --> 03:08:47,570
Speaker 6: only did one press conference.

3575
03:08:47,690 --> 03:08:51,530
Speaker 1: That's all it took. Before being fired. That's all it took.

3576
03:08:52,310 --> 03:08:54,550
Speaker 1: To give a sense, I was camping without signal for

3577
03:08:54,570 --> 03:08:56,650
Speaker 1: the entire duration of her career and didn't know who

3578
03:08:56,690 --> 03:09:01,750
Speaker 1: she was. You missed an entire press secretary? Yes. I

3579
03:09:01,790 --> 03:09:04,590
Speaker 1: am a journalist who covers this shit and I completely

3580
03:09:04,629 --> 03:09:05,130
Speaker 1: missed her.

3581
03:09:06,250 --> 03:09:10,300
Speaker 6: Her firing came after poor reception to her first performance.

3582
03:09:11,050 --> 03:09:15,120
Speaker 6: and reporting scrutinizing her claims about being a lawyer, despite

3583
03:09:15,200 --> 03:09:20,859
Speaker 6: not passing the bar exam. Trump told her, quote, Honestly,

3584
03:09:21,040 --> 03:09:25,279
Speaker 6: if I were you, I'd reconsider. Is this for you, Katie?

3585
03:09:25,660 --> 03:09:28,840
Speaker 6: Because honestly, you don't need this, unquote.

3586
03:09:29,770 --> 03:09:30,449
Speaker 1: She sure doesn't.

3587
03:09:30,950 --> 03:09:35,090
Speaker 6: One of the funniest Trump exchanges I've ever read.

3588
03:09:35,390 --> 03:09:39,010
Speaker 1: Yeah, wow, really coming in with empathy. Is this for you, Katie?

3589
03:09:39,250 --> 03:09:40,010
Speaker 1: You don't need this.

3590
03:09:41,250 --> 03:09:42,929
Speaker 13: Trump channeling HR manager.

3591
03:09:43,379 --> 03:09:44,080
Speaker 4: It's incredible.

3592
03:09:44,110 --> 03:09:48,280
Speaker 6: Yeah, no, he's handling this very delicately by most accounts.

3593
03:09:48,920 --> 03:09:52,300
Speaker 6: Politico reported that Trump told the White House officials Katie had, quote,

3594
03:09:52,400 --> 03:09:55,900
Speaker 6: no talent and shouldn't be on TV. But the White

3595
03:09:55,940 --> 03:09:59,519
Speaker 6: House disputes this. And the White House says that she is, quote,

3596
03:09:59,879 --> 03:10:04,400
Speaker 6: transitioning to a new role, though Katie said on Twitter

3597
03:10:04,440 --> 03:10:07,000
Speaker 6: it was, quote, an honor to work for Trump in

3598
03:10:07,040 --> 03:10:09,680
Speaker 6: the past tense. So who knows what she's going to

3599
03:10:09,700 --> 03:10:12,900
Speaker 6: be up to in the future sure incredible but yeah

3600
03:10:12,920 --> 03:10:14,780
Speaker 6: no we have lost out on a lot of potential

3601
03:10:14,840 --> 03:10:17,170
Speaker 6: content in the future so pour one out for all

3602
03:10:17,180 --> 03:10:20,210
Speaker 6: the all the podcasters out there who is relying on

3603
03:10:20,750 --> 03:10:24,090
Speaker 6: years of press conferences to mine content.

3604
03:10:24,470 --> 03:10:27,150
Speaker 1: Yeah Saturday Night Live's got to be really fucking scrambling

3605
03:10:27,270 --> 03:10:29,789
Speaker 1: after that oh my god yeah damn.

3606
03:10:29,650 --> 03:10:32,990
Speaker 2: Yeah I mean you know sometimes a beautiful thing comes

3607
03:10:33,030 --> 03:10:34,590
Speaker 2: into your life and it's just there for a little

3608
03:10:34,610 --> 03:10:36,430
Speaker 2: while and all we can do is enjoy the time

3609
03:10:36,470 --> 03:10:37,890
Speaker 2: we had together with what's her.

3610
03:10:37,810 --> 03:10:40,070
Speaker 6: Name Yeah, what's her name?

3611
03:10:40,670 --> 03:10:42,270
Speaker 1: I know her name, man. Like I said, I was

3612
03:10:42,310 --> 03:10:43,190
Speaker 1: camping the whole time.

3613
03:10:44,110 --> 03:10:46,310
Speaker 13: Luckily for us, we have so many things to cover,

3614
03:10:46,430 --> 03:10:52,780
Speaker 13: so we'll be fine. Everyone else, in danger. Us, deluged.

3615
03:10:54,120 --> 03:10:57,120
Speaker 6: Speaking of other things to cover, threatening letters containing a

3616
03:10:57,160 --> 03:11:00,019
Speaker 6: mysterious white powder have been sent to the offices of

3617
03:11:00,100 --> 03:11:04,109
Speaker 6: over three dozen congressional representatives and election offices across at

3618
03:11:04,150 --> 03:11:07,760
Speaker 6: least 32 states. At least one of these letters, sent

3619
03:11:07,820 --> 03:11:11,990
Speaker 6: to Democratic Congresswoman Hillary Scholten of Michigan, made a quote,

3620
03:11:12,410 --> 03:11:16,810
Speaker 6: direct and specific reference to an impending civil war beginning

3621
03:11:17,050 --> 03:11:22,060
Speaker 6: after the election, according to the Congresswoman. And interestingly, according

3622
03:11:22,240 --> 03:11:26,599
Speaker 6: to Scholten, the letter claimed to be from the Democratic

3623
03:11:26,720 --> 03:11:31,780
Speaker 6: Socialists of America. Yeah. So I guess they're kind of

3624
03:11:32,340 --> 03:11:37,420
Speaker 6: moving beyond labor organizing and electoral reform towards some much

3625
03:11:37,459 --> 03:11:40,840
Speaker 6: more interesting tactics. This, of course, is not true. The

3626
03:11:40,860 --> 03:11:45,320
Speaker 6: DSA did not send letters containing mysterious white powder, the

3627
03:11:45,360 --> 03:11:48,750
Speaker 6: implication being it could be anthrax. It has not been

3628
03:11:48,810 --> 03:11:53,010
Speaker 6: found to be anthrax or dangerous. Usually when letters are

3629
03:11:53,050 --> 03:11:57,750
Speaker 6: received containing white powder, that is the sort of implicit threat. Nice.

3630
03:11:57,820 --> 03:11:58,000
Speaker 5: Nice.

3631
03:11:58,010 --> 03:11:58,250
Speaker 1: Nice. Nice.

3632
03:12:20,760 --> 03:12:24,420
Speaker 6: The DSA has allowed extremists in its movement, which not

3633
03:12:24,560 --> 03:12:28,470
Speaker 6: only allow, but justify violence as a viable means to

3634
03:12:28,530 --> 03:12:29,789
Speaker 6: achieve political ends.

3635
03:12:30,070 --> 03:12:30,690
Speaker 1: Unquote.

3636
03:12:31,450 --> 03:12:34,150
Speaker 13: Man, this sort of kicked out all my friends who

3637
03:12:34,190 --> 03:12:36,650
Speaker 13: were doing, who were being street medics. Like, come on.

3638
03:12:36,850 --> 03:12:38,770
Speaker 1: They don't got the juice for it. I mean, it's

3639
03:12:38,790 --> 03:12:39,570
Speaker 1: not even the juice.

3640
03:12:39,610 --> 03:12:42,530
Speaker 6: Like, no one in the DSA is doing anthrax letters.

3641
03:12:42,610 --> 03:12:43,420
Speaker 1: Come on.

3642
03:12:43,430 --> 03:12:43,660
Speaker 5: Yeah.

3643
03:12:43,690 --> 03:12:44,500
Speaker 1: Yeah.

3644
03:12:45,910 --> 03:12:49,480
Speaker 6: DSA told CBS, quote, Needless to say, we are not

3645
03:12:49,540 --> 03:12:51,560
Speaker 6: involved with these letters and we are glad to learn

3646
03:12:51,580 --> 03:12:53,379
Speaker 6: no one was harmed, unquote.

3647
03:12:53,660 --> 03:12:54,520
Speaker 1: What are we doing here?

3648
03:12:55,560 --> 03:12:55,820
Speaker 6: Yeah.

3649
03:12:56,459 --> 03:12:59,340
Speaker 2: If a bunch of amateurs with no like chemical and

3650
03:12:59,360 --> 03:13:03,900
Speaker 2: biological weapons experience were attempting to distribute anthrax around the country,

3651
03:13:03,920 --> 03:13:06,279
Speaker 2: you would hear about it first when they infected themselves

3652
03:13:06,320 --> 03:13:07,060
Speaker 2: with anthrax.

3653
03:13:07,280 --> 03:13:10,250
Speaker 1: Yeah. That would be the story.

3654
03:13:10,260 --> 03:13:10,340
Speaker 6: Yeah.

3655
03:13:10,890 --> 03:13:13,410
Speaker 13: You know, like it's worth mentioning, like, yeah, like this

3656
03:13:13,470 --> 03:13:17,109
Speaker 13: is a fairly common right wing tactic. This is not

3657
03:13:17,150 --> 03:13:19,550
Speaker 13: a thing where even you're sort of like, I don't know,

3658
03:13:19,590 --> 03:13:22,110
Speaker 13: you're like 1970s, like Red Brigades guys who are like

3659
03:13:22,129 --> 03:13:23,270
Speaker 13: kidnapping people off the streets.

3660
03:13:23,290 --> 03:13:24,970
Speaker 1: Like they didn't do this.

3661
03:13:25,530 --> 03:13:29,420
Speaker 2: No, because it's really hard and dangerous. It's really hard

3662
03:13:29,480 --> 03:13:30,200
Speaker 2: and dangerous.

3663
03:13:30,220 --> 03:13:34,260
Speaker 1: It's very much giving like learned about terrorism in the 1990s,

3664
03:13:34,310 --> 03:13:37,290
Speaker 1: hasn't paid much attention since and decided to do a hoax.

3665
03:13:37,950 --> 03:13:41,379
Speaker 1: Early 2000s, but yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, sure, early 2000s.

3666
03:13:41,430 --> 03:13:45,269
Speaker 1: Come on. I don't know, such a weird option to

3667
03:13:45,290 --> 03:13:48,060
Speaker 1: go with anthrax. I guess there are other white powders,

3668
03:13:48,080 --> 03:13:50,280
Speaker 1: so it's kind of an easy one to go with.

3669
03:13:50,459 --> 03:13:52,980
Speaker 6: I mean, yeah, they're just mailing a white powder.

3670
03:13:53,000 --> 03:13:56,199
Speaker 1: They're not mailing anthrax, right? It's just flour or something.

3671
03:13:56,459 --> 03:13:59,050
Speaker 1: It's a low-effort hoax, sure, yeah. Yeah.

3672
03:13:59,490 --> 03:14:01,610
Speaker 2: There's all sorts of white powders out there.

3673
03:14:01,810 --> 03:14:03,920
Speaker 1: There sure are. Powdered sugar.

3674
03:14:04,360 --> 03:14:07,720
Speaker 2: The Germans have this fake cocaine that's not intoxicating that

3675
03:14:07,760 --> 03:14:09,580
Speaker 2: comes in this little glass thing.

3676
03:14:09,840 --> 03:14:11,710
Speaker 1: If you just want to snort something, it's cute.

3677
03:14:12,070 --> 03:14:12,370
Speaker 6: Oh, wow.

3678
03:14:12,930 --> 03:14:15,330
Speaker 1: Snuff. No, it's not snuff. There's no drug in it

3679
03:14:15,370 --> 03:14:18,370
Speaker 1: at all. It's just basically like mint. Just like talcum powder.

3680
03:14:18,390 --> 03:14:21,070
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just like something you can snort if you

3681
03:14:21,090 --> 03:14:21,930
Speaker 2: really need to snort.

3682
03:14:22,110 --> 03:14:25,720
Speaker 1: If your nose needs that stimulation. Germany's quite the place.

3683
03:14:25,980 --> 03:14:26,180
Speaker 6: Yeah.

3684
03:14:26,620 --> 03:14:27,300
Speaker 1: Thank you, Germans.

3685
03:14:27,840 --> 03:14:28,080
Speaker 7: Mm-hmm.

3686
03:14:28,840 --> 03:14:31,420
Speaker 1: So I heard from someone in Northern California this week,

3687
03:14:31,580 --> 03:14:34,620
Speaker 1: and it's a pretty credible source, that ICE agents have

3688
03:14:34,640 --> 03:14:38,480
Speaker 1: been seen outside the Sutter County Veterans Hall in Yuba City,

3689
03:14:38,520 --> 03:14:41,180
Speaker 1: which is a polling place. I didn't see any evidence

3690
03:14:41,200 --> 03:14:43,580
Speaker 1: that they were making detentions there or of people there

3691
03:14:43,950 --> 03:14:46,970
Speaker 1: or whether they were just using that as a staging area.

3692
03:14:46,990 --> 03:14:49,970
Speaker 1: I don't know. But this is something I'm really hyper

3693
03:14:50,350 --> 03:14:53,950
Speaker 1: focused on in the weeks coming up to this midterm election. Secondly,

3694
03:14:54,090 --> 03:14:59,269
Speaker 1: DHS is leaving TPS recipients from Ukraine, Sudan, and Limbo.

3695
03:14:59,629 --> 03:15:03,530
Speaker 1: It's not renewing their TPS, but it's not cancelling it either.

3696
03:15:04,290 --> 03:15:07,240
Speaker 1: So TPS generally is already a status which has to

3697
03:15:07,270 --> 03:15:10,260
Speaker 1: be renewed on a very fixed and short timeline, right?

3698
03:15:10,280 --> 03:15:12,420
Speaker 1: So it doesn't give people much permanence to begin with.

3699
03:15:12,900 --> 03:15:15,160
Speaker 1: But at this point, they have even less permanence, right?

3700
03:15:15,200 --> 03:15:19,160
Speaker 1: It makes it very hard for them to know what

3701
03:15:19,180 --> 03:15:23,160
Speaker 1: to do next. We saw... What happened to Haitian communities

3702
03:15:23,280 --> 03:15:26,500
Speaker 1: after the removal of that TPS, right? Yeah. Part of

3703
03:15:26,540 --> 03:15:28,879
Speaker 1: me wonders is if this is just like a, um,

3704
03:15:29,459 --> 03:15:32,700
Speaker 1: like a rate limiting thing for DHS, like they're still

3705
03:15:32,750 --> 03:15:35,990
Speaker 1: going hard on the TPS is they've already canceled and like,

3706
03:15:36,030 --> 03:15:38,810
Speaker 1: maybe they want to sort of divide and conquer with their,

3707
03:15:39,090 --> 03:15:42,330
Speaker 1: with their surges in different communities. Or if it's a

3708
03:15:42,350 --> 03:15:45,810
Speaker 1: pre midterm thing, because, uh, it is still somewhat unpopular

3709
03:15:45,850 --> 03:15:49,310
Speaker 1: to go after Ukraine. Next, I have CNN reporting that

3710
03:15:49,370 --> 03:15:53,379
Speaker 1: the Department of Defense is loaning an active denial system

3711
03:15:53,440 --> 03:15:56,540
Speaker 1: to CBP. This thing is often called a heat ray.

3712
03:15:57,160 --> 03:15:59,080
Speaker 1: The idea, of course, is that CBP might use it

3713
03:15:59,100 --> 03:16:01,480
Speaker 1: at the border for areas of high migrant traffic. They

3714
03:16:01,520 --> 03:16:04,760
Speaker 1: have experimented with this before. And what's interesting is that

3715
03:16:04,780 --> 03:16:07,890
Speaker 1: the Pentagon seem to have refused to have their people

3716
03:16:07,930 --> 03:16:11,650
Speaker 1: run the system or develop training tactics and procedures to

3717
03:16:11,810 --> 03:16:14,750
Speaker 1: use with the system. This is in line with how

3718
03:16:14,770 --> 03:16:17,580
Speaker 1: the Pentagon has previously approached this. They had these for

3719
03:16:17,600 --> 03:16:21,200
Speaker 1: like almost two decades and they took them to Afghanistan,

3720
03:16:21,520 --> 03:16:25,010
Speaker 1: but they never used them. I'm guessing they never used

3721
03:16:25,050 --> 03:16:28,550
Speaker 1: them because some jag somewhere was like, yeah, that's looking,

3722
03:16:28,750 --> 03:16:32,310
Speaker 1: that's giving war crimes. It's not a new technology, right?

3723
03:16:32,590 --> 03:16:35,530
Speaker 1: It's they've never really been able to find a place

3724
03:16:35,570 --> 03:16:38,830
Speaker 1: where they felt. And, uh, for, for younger folks, they

3725
03:16:38,850 --> 03:16:40,609
Speaker 1: did some shit during the war on terror, which is

3726
03:16:40,650 --> 03:16:44,330
Speaker 1: generally considered to be a flagrant violation of international law,

3727
03:16:44,830 --> 03:16:48,670
Speaker 1: but they didn't do this. CBP has evaluated it before

3728
03:16:48,730 --> 03:16:51,519
Speaker 1: too in the El Centro sector, when Rodney Scott, who's

3729
03:16:51,560 --> 03:16:55,439
Speaker 1: now CBP commissioner, was there. El Centro sector, of course,

3730
03:16:55,580 --> 03:16:58,360
Speaker 1: is ground zero for this shit, right? Greg Bovino, LHG

3731
03:16:58,400 --> 03:17:02,230
Speaker 1: patrol agent there. Obviously, this comes with massive human rights concerns,

3732
03:17:02,310 --> 03:17:04,710
Speaker 1: as well as international law concerns. If you're using some

3733
03:17:04,790 --> 03:17:07,010
Speaker 1: kind of heat ray to attack people who are not

3734
03:17:07,090 --> 03:17:10,200
Speaker 1: in the United States, it's The obvious other issue here

3735
03:17:10,320 --> 03:17:12,060
Speaker 1: is that we have fires all the fucking time at

3736
03:17:12,080 --> 03:17:14,720
Speaker 1: the border and turning on a heat ray is probably

3737
03:17:14,740 --> 03:17:16,840
Speaker 1: a great way to have more of them. I guess

3738
03:17:16,860 --> 03:17:19,690
Speaker 1: an interesting development, and this is right before we recorded, Hegsex,

3739
03:17:20,230 --> 03:17:22,930
Speaker 1: one of his deputy chiefs of staff, Patrick Weaver, used

3740
03:17:23,030 --> 03:17:25,270
Speaker 1: to be an advisor to Hegsex. He's bumped around a

3741
03:17:25,310 --> 03:17:29,690
Speaker 1: bunch of like Executive branch appointments, he posted, quote, the

3742
03:17:29,730 --> 03:17:32,240
Speaker 1: border is now a military installation and a battle lab

3743
03:17:32,270 --> 03:17:35,800
Speaker 1: for testing new systems to include directed energy weapons. The

3744
03:17:35,840 --> 03:17:38,500
Speaker 1: border is locked down. And then he posted a picture

3745
03:17:38,520 --> 03:17:41,420
Speaker 1: of the story. Just want to point out that, like, again,

3746
03:17:41,520 --> 03:17:44,800
Speaker 1: it's not Department of Defense staff using this. It would

3747
03:17:44,820 --> 03:17:47,119
Speaker 1: be CBP and CBP would have to develop a whole

3748
03:17:47,140 --> 03:17:49,160
Speaker 1: set of training tactics and procedures to do it before

3749
03:17:49,200 --> 03:17:52,000
Speaker 1: they used it. Last time they did it, they, they

3750
03:17:52,020 --> 03:17:53,970
Speaker 1: decided basically the juice wasn't worth the squeeze.

3751
03:17:54,050 --> 03:17:54,250
Speaker 7: Right.

3752
03:17:54,280 --> 03:17:56,250
Speaker 1: And especially in the El Centro sector at that time,

3753
03:17:56,270 --> 03:17:59,369
Speaker 1: people were coming through a lot of irrigation canals and

3754
03:17:59,790 --> 03:18:03,629
Speaker 1: the chances of somebody drowning large number of people drowning

3755
03:18:03,690 --> 03:18:05,290
Speaker 1: because you use this on them in a place where

3756
03:18:05,330 --> 03:18:09,260
Speaker 1: they're already in danger. Obviously they decided not to use it.

3757
03:18:09,590 --> 03:18:10,930
Speaker 1: So we'll keep an eye on that, I guess.

3758
03:18:11,780 --> 03:18:15,820
Speaker 6: This has also a very interesting like imperial boomerang effect

3759
03:18:15,879 --> 03:18:19,379
Speaker 6: of military technology then being used to the border. And

3760
03:18:19,400 --> 03:18:22,440
Speaker 6: then as we've seen across the country, that also increases

3761
03:18:22,459 --> 03:18:26,960
Speaker 6: the possibility of border patrol using this technology against American citizens. Yeah.

3762
03:18:27,000 --> 03:18:29,940
Speaker 6: Doing like crowd control, like in Portland in 2020, where

3763
03:18:29,959 --> 03:18:34,400
Speaker 6: they used a very specific LRAD that induced, you know,

3764
03:18:34,900 --> 03:18:38,000
Speaker 6: piercing headaches. The idea of this technology getting, you know,

3765
03:18:38,300 --> 03:18:42,230
Speaker 6: closer and closer to being used in within our national borders.

3766
03:18:42,310 --> 03:18:44,470
Speaker 6: I mean, as bad as it is that it exists,

3767
03:18:44,510 --> 03:18:46,350
Speaker 6: as bad as it is that CBP could use it

3768
03:18:46,370 --> 03:18:48,869
Speaker 6: at the border itself, which is its whole issue, this

3769
03:18:48,890 --> 03:18:51,490
Speaker 6: also kind of shows the tendency of this sort of

3770
03:18:51,550 --> 03:18:54,670
Speaker 6: development to get closer and closer to the imperial core.

3771
03:18:54,690 --> 03:18:57,530
Speaker 1: To the metropole, yeah. And I think that that's towards

3772
03:18:57,550 --> 03:19:00,150
Speaker 1: the end of the earth, right? Like Miller's book, Empire Borders,

3773
03:19:00,170 --> 03:19:02,210
Speaker 1: I don't know when that came out, but he talks

3774
03:19:02,290 --> 03:19:07,070
Speaker 1: about the US-Palestine border, the direct pathway, testing systems on

3775
03:19:07,110 --> 03:19:10,050
Speaker 1: Palestinian people to selling them to Border Patrol. And then,

3776
03:19:10,090 --> 03:19:12,520
Speaker 1: as you say, to them finding their way into the metropole.

3777
03:19:12,560 --> 03:19:15,100
Speaker 1: The whole country is experiencing now what we have experienced

3778
03:19:15,140 --> 03:19:17,680
Speaker 1: at the border, which is the state is either hostile

3779
03:19:18,120 --> 03:19:22,190
Speaker 1: or completely absent. And talking of that, in Pensacola, where

3780
03:19:22,209 --> 03:19:25,369
Speaker 1: people are working to repair from storm damage, I saw

3781
03:19:25,410 --> 03:19:27,970
Speaker 1: that ICE had come to arrest two roofers who were

3782
03:19:28,030 --> 03:19:31,380
Speaker 1: working to repair that storm damage. What you expect from

3783
03:19:31,400 --> 03:19:34,720
Speaker 1: the federal government is FEMA. FEMA is pretty much on

3784
03:19:34,780 --> 03:19:38,000
Speaker 1: its knees right now, but ICE has swallowed up all

3785
03:19:38,040 --> 03:19:41,280
Speaker 1: that funding, gobbled it up, and it's there. I think

3786
03:19:41,320 --> 03:19:44,060
Speaker 1: it resulted in like a, we're not coming down from

3787
03:19:44,100 --> 03:19:46,600
Speaker 1: the roof and eventually ICE leaving, which has happened in

3788
03:19:46,640 --> 03:19:49,720
Speaker 1: several cases specifically with roofers, right? Good for them. Glad

3789
03:19:49,740 --> 03:19:52,940
Speaker 1: they didn't get caught. Yeah, talking of weird DHS shit,

3790
03:19:53,310 --> 03:19:55,709
Speaker 1: the United States Coast Guard has released a bizarre promo

3791
03:19:55,730 --> 03:19:58,830
Speaker 1: video detailing their work in San Diego, which features... I

3792
03:19:58,850 --> 03:20:00,810
Speaker 1: think I would describe it as an emo cover of

3793
03:20:00,910 --> 03:20:05,129
Speaker 1: Pink Pony Club by Chapel Roan. What? It's real weird.

3794
03:20:05,310 --> 03:20:05,590
Speaker 10: Yeah.

3795
03:20:05,850 --> 03:20:08,330
Speaker 1: We can listen to it, but we don't have to. No,

3796
03:20:08,410 --> 03:20:08,770
Speaker 1: I'm good.

3797
03:20:08,850 --> 03:20:09,910
Speaker 6: I'm good.

3798
03:20:09,950 --> 03:20:16,279
Speaker 1: Yeah. Continuing in their trend of like trolling intellectual property, right? Finally,

3799
03:20:16,320 --> 03:20:20,580
Speaker 1: the Junto Miema is continuing to flounder in its assault

3800
03:20:20,640 --> 03:20:25,020
Speaker 1: on Rakhine or Arakas state It's sort of continuing with

3801
03:20:25,060 --> 03:20:27,720
Speaker 1: its major tactical philosophy, which seems to be doing World

3802
03:20:27,740 --> 03:20:30,879
Speaker 1: War II shit in 2026. This time they've gone with

3803
03:20:30,920 --> 03:20:35,360
Speaker 1: an imposed amphibious assault. They're trying to stop the Arakan

3804
03:20:35,620 --> 03:20:39,010
Speaker 1: army's offensive on Sitwe and the way they've done that

3805
03:20:39,110 --> 03:20:43,410
Speaker 1: is like big landing crafts full of conscripts, which has

3806
03:20:43,470 --> 03:20:47,050
Speaker 1: resulted in massive casualties, right? There's been a bunch of

3807
03:20:47,090 --> 03:20:49,980
Speaker 1: reporting over the last few months on how these big

3808
03:20:50,110 --> 03:20:54,110
Speaker 1: hunter offensive work and it seems to be like straight

3809
03:20:54,170 --> 03:20:58,750
Speaker 1: up human wave attacks at which the officers, at least

3810
03:20:58,770 --> 03:21:01,610
Speaker 1: the higher ranking officers, the officers who would plan such

3811
03:21:01,650 --> 03:21:04,670
Speaker 1: an operation are not present. And then any of the

3812
03:21:05,209 --> 03:21:07,250
Speaker 1: NCOs or officers who are present, like their role is

3813
03:21:07,330 --> 03:21:11,610
Speaker 1: not to think tactically and adapt. It's to enforce discipline

3814
03:21:11,650 --> 03:21:15,410
Speaker 1: and continue enforcing the plan, even as everybody's dying. So yeah,

3815
03:21:15,570 --> 03:21:18,970
Speaker 1: it's a pretty brutal scene for conscripts in Myanmar right now.

3816
03:21:20,160 --> 03:21:23,810
Speaker 6: Early voting has begun in Texas, and this past week,

3817
03:21:23,890 --> 03:21:27,470
Speaker 6: in the lead-up to the election, pamphlets have been mailed

3818
03:21:27,590 --> 03:21:31,790
Speaker 6: to households across Texas from a group identified as the, quote,

3819
03:21:32,270 --> 03:21:37,690
Speaker 6: Texas Transgender Student Union. These pamphlets were addressed to students

3820
03:21:37,840 --> 03:21:42,280
Speaker 6: in the household and contained resources for LGBTQ youth and

3821
03:21:42,420 --> 03:21:47,170
Speaker 6: a guide on how trans teens can emancipate themselves. These

3822
03:21:47,209 --> 03:21:51,750
Speaker 6: mailers have sparked outrage among conservatives, and that appears to

3823
03:21:51,850 --> 03:21:56,960
Speaker 6: have been the point. This, quote, Texas Transgender Student Union

3824
03:21:57,700 --> 03:22:03,080
Speaker 6: doesn't actually exist, or at least didn't exist until last month,

3825
03:22:03,680 --> 03:22:06,660
Speaker 6: when a group by that name registered as an LLC

3826
03:22:06,840 --> 03:22:09,619
Speaker 6: in Wyoming, according to Business Records.

3827
03:22:10,180 --> 03:22:10,320
Speaker 7: Wait!

3828
03:22:11,150 --> 03:22:14,010
Speaker 1: That's an LLC in Wyoming. Okay. Hell yeah. Great stuff

3829
03:22:14,030 --> 03:22:14,470
Speaker 1: happening here.

3830
03:22:14,629 --> 03:22:19,080
Speaker 6: This is not a real student advocacy group in Texas.

3831
03:22:19,160 --> 03:22:23,220
Speaker 6: This is an op. This pamphlet does include some resources

3832
03:22:23,420 --> 03:22:27,640
Speaker 6: from TENT. That's Transgender Education Network of Texas, which is

3833
03:22:27,680 --> 03:22:30,840
Speaker 6: a real advocacy group. But they were not involved in

3834
03:22:30,879 --> 03:22:34,510
Speaker 6: the making of this mailer, nor do they have emancipation resources.

3835
03:22:35,150 --> 03:22:38,810
Speaker 6: TENT has since faced a huge wave of harassment and threats.

3836
03:22:39,430 --> 03:22:43,169
Speaker 6: following the mailing out of this pamphlet. The Texas Tribune

3837
03:22:43,430 --> 03:22:46,510
Speaker 6: traced the mailer ID of two pamphlets to a mail

3838
03:22:46,550 --> 03:22:51,790
Speaker 6: tracking company called Snailworks, who the National Republican Congressional Committee

3839
03:22:52,250 --> 03:22:55,390
Speaker 6: has paid almost $ 60, 000 over the past two years for

3840
03:22:55,450 --> 03:22:59,590
Speaker 6: mailing services, according to a federal election commission search of

3841
03:22:59,650 --> 03:23:04,830
Speaker 6: campaign finance records. Stephen Manicelli is currently kind of running

3842
03:23:04,870 --> 03:23:07,830
Speaker 6: this lead down and trying to figure out exactly where

3843
03:23:07,870 --> 03:23:10,510
Speaker 6: this mailer has like come from. He's been like live

3844
03:23:10,560 --> 03:23:14,080
Speaker 6: tweeting his investigation. We don't know tons yet, but if

3845
03:23:14,100 --> 03:23:17,300
Speaker 6: you want an update on it, check out our correspondent,

3846
03:23:17,320 --> 03:23:20,480
Speaker 6: Steven Monticelli on social media. He'll probably have some more

3847
03:23:20,520 --> 03:23:23,360
Speaker 6: info about where exactly this letter came from and who

3848
03:23:23,379 --> 03:23:27,440
Speaker 6: might be behind it. Texas Smith County Republican precinct chair,

3849
03:23:27,600 --> 03:23:30,310
Speaker 6: Sarah Fields posted a picture of one of these mailers

3850
03:23:30,430 --> 03:23:33,670
Speaker 6: that she received and wrote, people are getting pissed. Let

3851
03:23:33,690 --> 03:23:36,090
Speaker 6: this be a reminder to take your anger to the

3852
03:23:36,170 --> 03:23:41,180
Speaker 6: voting booth. though a later follow-up post noted the suspicious

3853
03:23:41,320 --> 03:23:45,140
Speaker 6: origin of these pamphlets. Quote, I just checked my messages.

3854
03:23:45,440 --> 03:23:49,000
Speaker 6: No less than 100 parents had messaged me. Enraged over

3855
03:23:49,020 --> 03:23:52,130
Speaker 6: the mailers. Is this an op? If it is, it's

3856
03:23:52,270 --> 03:23:56,030
Speaker 6: not okay. It even gives tips on how to get emancipated.

3857
03:23:56,290 --> 03:23:56,850
Speaker 1: Unquote.

3858
03:23:57,650 --> 03:24:00,029
Speaker 6: So it appears that this mailer was sent out specifically

3859
03:24:00,110 --> 03:24:04,269
Speaker 6: just to make people mad. Some Texans upset enough to

3860
03:24:04,350 --> 03:24:08,160
Speaker 6: go to the polls. trying to mobilize anti-trans sentiment to

3861
03:24:08,200 --> 03:24:10,279
Speaker 6: get them to vote for the Republicans.

3862
03:24:11,320 --> 03:24:14,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's an extension of a theme, I guess.

3863
03:24:14,940 --> 03:24:20,199
Speaker 6: In some other, I guess, transgender-related news, earlier this month,

3864
03:24:20,240 --> 03:24:22,660
Speaker 6: the New York City Health Department announced a plan to

3865
03:24:22,740 --> 03:24:26,340
Speaker 6: spend $ 9 million to provide gender-affirming care to minors after

3866
03:24:26,360 --> 03:24:29,190
Speaker 6: two hospitals in the city, NYU Langone and Mount Sinai,

3867
03:24:29,270 --> 03:24:32,250
Speaker 6: caved to pressure from the Trump administration and cut services

3868
03:24:32,290 --> 03:24:35,080
Speaker 6: to trans youth. This funding is set to go into

3869
03:24:35,140 --> 03:24:39,170
Speaker 6: effect early next year, likely partnering with Callen-Lorde, which is

3870
03:24:39,230 --> 03:24:43,610
Speaker 6: a local LGBTQ hospital system in the city. And as

3871
03:24:43,690 --> 03:24:47,270
Speaker 6: of the day of recording this, Wednesday, October 21st, the

3872
03:24:47,310 --> 03:24:50,550
Speaker 6: Supreme Court, at least temporarily, blocked the Trump administration from

3873
03:24:50,629 --> 03:24:55,120
Speaker 6: denying gender-affirming care to trans prisoners. This was just a

3874
03:24:55,260 --> 03:25:00,160
Speaker 6: two-sentence unsigned order, which leaves in place a previous court

3875
03:25:00,240 --> 03:25:04,040
Speaker 6: order from a U.S. district judge in D.C., which originally

3876
03:25:04,080 --> 03:25:06,940
Speaker 6: blocked the Bureau of Prisons' new policy going into effect,

3877
03:25:07,500 --> 03:25:12,609
Speaker 6: which would have taken away trans prisoners' gender-affirming care, including

3878
03:25:12,709 --> 03:25:17,209
Speaker 6: their health care. The second sentence of this two-sentence order

3879
03:25:17,270 --> 03:25:20,270
Speaker 6: from the Supreme Court reads, quote, Meaning that these two

3880
03:25:20,310 --> 03:25:23,109
Speaker 6: justices would have let the new anti-trans policy from the

3881
03:25:23,170 --> 03:25:33,080
Speaker 6: Bureau of Prisons go into effect. So the fact that

3882
03:25:33,160 --> 03:25:35,780
Speaker 6: those two are singled out is interesting. You could interpret

3883
03:25:35,800 --> 03:25:40,110
Speaker 6: this possibly as like a 7-2 ruling, but there's really

3884
03:25:40,170 --> 03:25:43,510
Speaker 6: no legal justification given. It's just two sentences. It's the

3885
03:25:43,570 --> 03:25:47,250
Speaker 6: shortest shadow docket ruling I've seen. We'll see what happens

3886
03:25:47,510 --> 03:25:49,950
Speaker 6: going forward. Yeah, glad we got a good one.

3887
03:25:49,980 --> 03:25:53,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, we got another small thing that literally broke while

3888
03:25:53,800 --> 03:25:54,540
Speaker 1: we were doing this.

3889
03:25:55,180 --> 03:25:55,420
Speaker 6: Great.

3890
03:25:56,170 --> 03:26:00,780
Speaker 1: So San Diego City Council Committee voted on Wednesday to

3891
03:26:00,879 --> 03:26:07,550
Speaker 1: rescind the ALPR use policy. That doesn't take ALPRs like completely...

3892
03:26:07,500 --> 03:26:09,700
Speaker 1: out in San Diego, it means that any future contract

3893
03:26:10,060 --> 03:26:12,180
Speaker 1: would have to go through the whole process again, right?

3894
03:26:12,200 --> 03:26:13,700
Speaker 1: Including this like a privacy review board.

3895
03:26:14,020 --> 03:26:16,390
Speaker 6: That is automated license plate readers.

3896
03:26:16,550 --> 03:26:19,289
Speaker 1: Readers, yeah, flock cameras in the colloquial, but in this

3897
03:26:19,350 --> 03:26:22,129
Speaker 1: case and other analogs, right? A lot of places said,

3898
03:26:22,170 --> 03:26:23,950
Speaker 1: oh yeah, we're counseling flock and then gone to Axon

3899
03:26:23,990 --> 03:26:25,410
Speaker 1: or another provider. Switch to Axon.

3900
03:26:25,570 --> 03:26:26,370
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's the move.

3901
03:26:26,530 --> 03:26:31,730
Speaker 1: Yeah. Bravely, Mayor Todd Gloria has immediately stepped in to

3902
03:26:31,770 --> 03:26:35,820
Speaker 1: put himself between the flock cameras and the people of

3903
03:26:35,879 --> 03:26:37,990
Speaker 1: San Diego. Like the hero he is.

3904
03:26:38,110 --> 03:26:41,220
Speaker 6: Todd Gloria has cloned himself and has personally standing in

3905
03:26:41,340 --> 03:26:43,760
Speaker 6: front of every license plate reader.

3906
03:26:44,400 --> 03:26:48,770
Speaker 1: Most useful thing he's ever done. And Todd Gloria is watching. Wait,

3907
03:26:49,010 --> 03:26:51,449
Speaker 1: would that work? Are clones people? Could we just do

3908
03:26:51,490 --> 03:26:53,930
Speaker 1: that with the flock cameras? They're just twins. I don't know,

3909
03:26:53,950 --> 03:26:56,570
Speaker 1: somebody get to work on that. A flock of Todds.

3910
03:26:56,650 --> 03:26:59,090
Speaker 2: Instead of a digital twin, everybody just has a clone

3911
03:26:59,110 --> 03:27:02,590
Speaker 2: twin that stands in front of the flock cameras.

3912
03:27:02,950 --> 03:27:06,680
Speaker 1: Just constantly flipping them off. Yeah, Todd said, automated license

3913
03:27:06,700 --> 03:27:09,199
Speaker 1: plate readers are helping San Diego police solve serious crimes,

3914
03:27:09,260 --> 03:27:12,280
Speaker 1: cover stolen vehicles and property and locate missing people. Taking

3915
03:27:12,320 --> 03:27:13,900
Speaker 1: this proven tool away from our officers will be a

3916
03:27:13,920 --> 03:27:16,560
Speaker 1: serious mistake and a step backwards for public safety. Shut

3917
03:27:16,580 --> 03:27:20,160
Speaker 1: the fuck up, told Gloria. A number of people in

3918
03:27:20,200 --> 03:27:23,820
Speaker 1: San Diego have been wrongly arrested and detained because of

3919
03:27:23,860 --> 03:27:28,000
Speaker 1: flock cameras, right? People will remember that San Diego police

3920
03:27:28,300 --> 03:27:32,619
Speaker 1: had the vehicle description and number plate for the people

3921
03:27:32,660 --> 03:27:35,780
Speaker 1: who shot up the Islamic Center of San Diego, the mosque, right?

3922
03:27:36,020 --> 03:27:40,180
Speaker 1: For hours. And they did fuck all. Not one of

3923
03:27:40,240 --> 03:27:43,420
Speaker 1: the cops engaged those people, right? The only person who

3924
03:27:43,459 --> 03:27:45,980
Speaker 1: stepped up, who kept that community safe were people who

3925
03:27:46,020 --> 03:27:49,840
Speaker 1: were already at that mosque, two of whom died in

3926
03:27:49,860 --> 03:27:52,820
Speaker 1: the act of stopping the shooter, killing more people. Surveillance

3927
03:27:52,879 --> 03:27:55,040
Speaker 1: is not safety. That is not the same thing. And

3928
03:27:55,080 --> 03:27:57,970
Speaker 1: it is particularly pathetic for our mayor, right? Who was

3929
03:27:58,550 --> 03:28:01,690
Speaker 1: shouted down at a press conference that night at the

3930
03:28:01,790 --> 03:28:05,030
Speaker 1: ICSD to attempt to lie about this when he has

3931
03:28:05,190 --> 03:28:08,700
Speaker 1: failed our city so badly. fuck this guy. There is

3932
03:28:08,740 --> 03:28:10,580
Speaker 1: very little nice I have to say about Todd Gloria.

3933
03:28:11,420 --> 03:28:15,510
Speaker 1: Let's move on, I guess, to other contract shit. ICE

3934
03:28:15,590 --> 03:28:18,990
Speaker 1: has issued a no-bid extension to the contract that I'm

3935
03:28:19,050 --> 03:28:22,870
Speaker 1: pretty sure it's Aumentum Services has to keep running East Montana.

3936
03:28:22,890 --> 03:28:25,230
Speaker 1: I know what the company is called. I'm guessing that's

3937
03:28:25,250 --> 03:28:27,210
Speaker 1: how they pronounce it. It could be Aumentum, but I

3938
03:28:27,650 --> 03:28:30,820
Speaker 1: don't really care. In the justification, they say, quote, Aumentum

3939
03:28:30,900 --> 03:28:34,640
Speaker 1: owns and controls key facility infrastructure and operational assets at

3940
03:28:34,700 --> 03:28:39,110
Speaker 1: Camp East Montana. These assets include temporary housing units, security systems, generators,

3941
03:28:39,170 --> 03:28:42,490
Speaker 1: food service equipment, and other infrastructure necessary to operate this facility.

3942
03:28:43,110 --> 03:28:47,770
Speaker 1: Because of this ownership and operational control, Amentum uniquely possesses

3943
03:28:47,850 --> 03:28:51,100
Speaker 1: the ability to continue services without a break in performance.

3944
03:28:51,220 --> 03:28:54,160
Speaker 1: No other vendor can assume responsibility for the facility and

3945
03:28:54,200 --> 03:28:58,480
Speaker 1: provide the required services without substantial transition time, duplicity cost,

3946
03:28:58,620 --> 03:29:03,679
Speaker 1: operational disruption, and unacceptable risk to detainee welfare and mission continuity.

3947
03:29:04,420 --> 03:29:06,310
Speaker 1: They then go on to mention the Office of the

3948
03:29:06,330 --> 03:29:09,870
Speaker 1: Inspector General report on the horrific conditions there, including three

3949
03:29:09,910 --> 03:29:12,609
Speaker 1: deaths and the destruction of evidence in one of those cases.

3950
03:29:13,430 --> 03:29:16,170
Speaker 1: They say, quote, recent oversight by the ICE Office of

3951
03:29:16,240 --> 03:29:20,500
Speaker 1: Detention Oversight yielded a preliminary report identifying more findings, the

3952
03:29:20,560 --> 03:29:23,660
Speaker 1: circumstances created and contributed to a need for immediate contractual

3953
03:29:23,760 --> 03:29:27,359
Speaker 1: action to protect any detainees and staff and ensure performance

3954
03:29:27,400 --> 03:29:31,709
Speaker 1: under ICE standards. So they are renewing and extending this

3955
03:29:31,770 --> 03:29:37,030
Speaker 1: contract for this agency, which is remarkably bad among ICE contractors,

3956
03:29:37,400 --> 03:29:43,000
Speaker 1: among immigration detention. This contract is vast. It has a

3957
03:29:43,040 --> 03:29:45,779
Speaker 1: base period of seven months, followed by a 12-month option,

3958
03:29:45,860 --> 03:29:49,430
Speaker 1: and then two six-month options. The payout for these, and

3959
03:29:49,450 --> 03:29:52,129
Speaker 1: then there's quite a lot of redactions in this, a

3960
03:29:52,150 --> 03:29:55,500
Speaker 1: redacted item on the budget, combined with all these extensions,

3961
03:29:55,570 --> 03:30:00,410
Speaker 1: would together be $ 2. 8 billion. Jesus. Yeah, this is for

3962
03:30:00,450 --> 03:30:04,830
Speaker 1: a tent camp, right, on a military base. So, like,

3963
03:30:04,870 --> 03:30:09,640
Speaker 1: these people are not having to build buildings. They have

3964
03:30:09,660 --> 03:30:11,300
Speaker 1: to maintain their tent camp, right? But they also don't

3965
03:30:11,800 --> 03:30:14,300
Speaker 1: own the land. Like, they're doing this as a contractor

3966
03:30:14,480 --> 03:30:16,480
Speaker 1: on a military base. That's crazy.

3967
03:30:16,500 --> 03:30:19,080
Speaker 6: I mean, you're left to wonder how much of this

3968
03:30:19,120 --> 03:30:23,000
Speaker 6: whole thing is, like, state subsidies for, like, allies for

3969
03:30:23,020 --> 03:30:24,540
Speaker 6: the republican party or like.

3970
03:30:24,379 --> 03:30:27,539
Speaker 2: It's it's just it seems i mean that's a lot

3971
03:30:27,580 --> 03:30:28,039
Speaker 2: of stuff.

3972
03:30:27,879 --> 03:30:30,810
Speaker 6: Yeah beyond the morality of like what's going on it

3973
03:30:30,830 --> 03:30:33,510
Speaker 6: seems like a wildly inefficient use of funds.

3974
03:30:33,290 --> 03:30:35,610
Speaker 1: Yeah well what's particularly remarkable i don't think amentum had

3975
03:30:35,709 --> 03:30:37,470
Speaker 1: ever we've reported on this before but i'm pretty sure

3976
03:30:37,490 --> 03:30:39,550
Speaker 1: at the time we reported that they they this isn't

3977
03:30:39,570 --> 03:30:42,170
Speaker 1: what they do or they hadn't done this before this

3978
03:30:42,209 --> 03:30:44,090
Speaker 1: is going to be the biggest contract by orders of

3979
03:30:44,140 --> 03:30:48,379
Speaker 1: magnitude they've ever had also the monthly rate escalates from

3980
03:30:48,379 --> 03:30:50,600
Speaker 1: 68 million a month to 97 million a month.

3981
03:30:52,640 --> 03:30:53,920
Speaker 6: Whoa.

3982
03:30:53,940 --> 03:30:55,800
Speaker 1: I mean, maybe Trump's just going to go after it

3983
03:30:55,820 --> 03:30:59,080
Speaker 1: a bit more with inflation. Maybe he's going to invade

3984
03:30:59,120 --> 03:31:01,960
Speaker 1: some more places and make oil and everything's going to

3985
03:31:01,980 --> 03:31:04,480
Speaker 1: get more expensive. Maybe that's what they're predicting. But it

3986
03:31:04,520 --> 03:31:09,590
Speaker 1: could also be that they plan to scale up this facility, right? Yeah. Yeah,

3987
03:31:09,690 --> 03:31:14,550
Speaker 1: it is remarkable. This one hasn't had as much reporting,

3988
03:31:14,590 --> 03:31:16,110
Speaker 1: I don't think, as some of the geo group and

3989
03:31:16,150 --> 03:31:18,790
Speaker 1: core civic facilities because it's harder to rent, because it's

3990
03:31:18,990 --> 03:31:22,370
Speaker 1: harder for people to protest outside. Often we find out

3991
03:31:22,410 --> 03:31:25,410
Speaker 1: about things by like either migrants shouting them out over

3992
03:31:25,430 --> 03:31:28,830
Speaker 1: the walls or like writing notes and tossing them out.

3993
03:31:29,400 --> 03:31:31,779
Speaker 1: So we haven't heard as much about this, but like

3994
03:31:31,860 --> 03:31:34,859
Speaker 1: the conditions we have heard in that report were horrific.

3995
03:31:35,360 --> 03:31:38,619
Speaker 1: And nonetheless, these guys are about to net massive bounty.

3996
03:31:39,600 --> 03:31:43,360
Speaker 1: Talking of bounties, is it time for us to make

3997
03:31:43,400 --> 03:31:44,879
Speaker 1: some money with an advertising break?

3998
03:31:45,440 --> 03:31:46,140
Speaker 6: I'm afraid of this.

3999
03:31:46,500 --> 03:31:46,800
Speaker 1: Yes.

4000
03:31:47,580 --> 03:31:47,780
Speaker 7: Nice.

4001
03:32:00,100 --> 03:32:04,379
Speaker 2: And we're back. So first, kind of a quick story.

4002
03:32:04,400 --> 03:32:06,390
Speaker 2: This is actually a huge story. It might wind up

4003
03:32:06,420 --> 03:32:09,070
Speaker 2: being one of the biggest ones we've covered in the

4004
03:32:09,110 --> 03:32:11,010
Speaker 2: last few months. But at the moment, there's just not

4005
03:32:11,050 --> 03:32:13,470
Speaker 2: a ton out in terms of like knowing what the

4006
03:32:13,510 --> 03:32:16,310
Speaker 2: consequences are going to be. But there was a massive

4007
03:32:16,510 --> 03:32:21,250
Speaker 2: vulnerability revealed in PHP this week. PHP, which stands for

4008
03:32:21,270 --> 03:32:24,300
Speaker 2: personal homepage, is a scripting language used to develop websites,

4009
03:32:24,800 --> 03:32:26,880
Speaker 2: like most of the websites in one way or another.

4010
03:32:26,900 --> 03:32:29,240
Speaker 2: I think like 70% of the internet these days relies

4011
03:32:29,300 --> 03:32:32,340
Speaker 2: on PHP in some way, you know, aspects of the

4012
03:32:32,379 --> 03:32:36,039
Speaker 2: website or whatever, like I still use it. WordPress uses

4013
03:32:36,060 --> 03:32:38,970
Speaker 2: it heavily. So do platforms like Drupal and Magneto. It

4014
03:32:38,990 --> 03:32:41,189
Speaker 2: wouldn't be too far off to view PHP as a

4015
03:32:41,250 --> 03:32:44,800
Speaker 2: foundation level of the modern internet. Late Tuesday, a massive

4016
03:32:44,820 --> 03:32:48,630
Speaker 2: vulnerability was discovered in PHP by AI Systems. Two vulnerabilities

4017
03:32:48,709 --> 03:32:51,289
Speaker 2: actually were found, and without getting technical, these could provide

4018
03:32:51,350 --> 03:32:53,250
Speaker 2: bad actors with a way to run whatever code they

4019
03:32:53,270 --> 03:32:56,510
Speaker 2: want on an affected server without even logging in. One

4020
03:32:56,550 --> 03:32:58,330
Speaker 2: thing a bad actor could do with this is create

4021
03:32:58,350 --> 03:33:00,770
Speaker 2: a backdoor or edit the content of a website to

4022
03:33:00,790 --> 03:33:04,830
Speaker 2: embed malicious code. This is a tremendously, like, broad-reaching and

4023
03:33:04,900 --> 03:33:08,620
Speaker 2: severe vulnerability. Now, when stuff like this gets found, the

4024
03:33:08,700 --> 03:33:11,640
Speaker 2: ideal thing to do is to inform the people who

4025
03:33:11,680 --> 03:33:15,820
Speaker 2: maintain PHP or whatever, or whatever thing a vulnerability has

4026
03:33:15,840 --> 03:33:18,640
Speaker 2: been found in so they can patch it before it

4027
03:33:18,700 --> 03:33:21,680
Speaker 2: becomes known to everybody that there's this massive vulnerability. But

4028
03:33:21,700 --> 03:33:24,780
Speaker 2: that's not what happened. The vulnerability was leaked hours before

4029
03:33:24,820 --> 03:33:26,820
Speaker 2: the patch came out. The patch was set for Wednesday.

4030
03:33:27,379 --> 03:33:30,580
Speaker 2: And on Tuesday, like late afternoon, early evening, everyone knew

4031
03:33:30,600 --> 03:33:33,330
Speaker 2: that there was a vulnerability. And so every major website

4032
03:33:33,350 --> 03:33:36,330
Speaker 2: on the planet scrambled taking themselves down or disabling PHP

4033
03:33:36,370 --> 03:33:39,210
Speaker 2: related parts of the website and applying emergency fixes. Like

4034
03:33:39,230 --> 03:33:41,430
Speaker 2: the Netherlands, like a bunch of government websites went down.

4035
03:33:41,790 --> 03:33:45,320
Speaker 2: 4chan was down. A bunch of like very large and

4036
03:33:45,360 --> 03:33:48,400
Speaker 2: influential websites were down, including a lot of government sites.

4037
03:33:48,879 --> 03:33:51,480
Speaker 2: You've probably noticed this to some extent. I want to

4038
03:33:51,500 --> 03:33:54,520
Speaker 2: quote now from an article by Malwarebyte Labs. So it's

4039
03:33:54,540 --> 03:33:56,860
Speaker 2: way too early to know what the long-term impacts of

4040
03:33:56,959 --> 03:33:59,730
Speaker 2: all these vulnerabilities and of the hacks that are going

4041
03:33:59,750 --> 03:34:01,930
Speaker 2: to be carried out as a result of these vulnerabilities

4042
03:34:01,950 --> 03:34:03,610
Speaker 2: will be, but this is a big story. You should

4043
03:34:03,629 --> 03:34:05,269
Speaker 2: expect to hear a lot more in the near future.

4044
03:34:05,290 --> 03:34:22,310
Speaker 2: This is an example of how You know, one of

4045
03:34:22,330 --> 03:34:25,220
Speaker 2: the things these AI tools have done is that hacking

4046
03:34:25,240 --> 03:34:28,400
Speaker 2: has always involved a lot of automated stuff like running

4047
03:34:28,440 --> 03:34:31,180
Speaker 2: scripts and whatnot to search for vulnerabilities. And AI has

4048
03:34:31,250 --> 03:34:35,310
Speaker 2: allowed us to supercharge the speed at which vulnerabilities are

4049
03:34:35,370 --> 03:34:39,129
Speaker 2: found and exploited. And so shit like this is going

4050
03:34:39,150 --> 03:34:41,720
Speaker 2: to become much more common. This is all part of, like,

4051
03:34:41,780 --> 03:34:44,400
Speaker 2: the decreasing reliability with which we'll all be able to

4052
03:34:44,520 --> 03:34:47,900
Speaker 2: access and utilize the Internet safely. And, yeah, it's just

4053
03:34:47,940 --> 03:34:49,540
Speaker 2: kind of worth keeping an eye on this, even though

4054
03:34:49,660 --> 03:34:51,859
Speaker 2: it's not clear what the fallout entirely is going to

4055
03:34:51,879 --> 03:34:52,480
Speaker 2: be at this point.

4056
03:34:52,600 --> 03:34:53,380
Speaker 1: Scary.

4057
03:34:54,040 --> 03:34:56,300
Speaker 2: But everybody you know in digital security says this is

4058
03:34:56,360 --> 03:34:57,099
Speaker 2: a very big deal.

4059
03:34:57,680 --> 03:35:01,610
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's real bad. Heads on a swivel. Family.

4060
03:35:02,310 --> 03:35:05,750
Speaker 2: So moving outside of the Internet and over to a

4061
03:35:05,790 --> 03:35:08,210
Speaker 2: place that has no Internet, let's talk about Canada.

4062
03:35:08,250 --> 03:35:10,230
Speaker 1: Garrison, is that accurate? Does Canada not have the Internet?

4063
03:35:10,700 --> 03:35:11,320
Speaker 3: I don't know, man.

4064
03:35:12,200 --> 03:35:14,010
Speaker 1: You don't know. Okay, that's good. Good to know. That's

4065
03:35:14,030 --> 03:35:15,699
Speaker 1: our Canadian correspondent, Garrison Davis.

4066
03:35:15,720 --> 03:35:16,000
Speaker 3: Thanks.

4067
03:35:16,260 --> 03:35:16,380
Speaker 6: Yeah.

4068
03:35:19,670 --> 03:35:21,850
Speaker 1: Few months. So yeah, yeah. If you can text me,

4069
03:35:21,870 --> 03:35:23,869
Speaker 1: we'll know there's internet. Well, actually, that's not the internet.

4070
03:35:24,170 --> 03:35:25,129
Speaker 1: That's good. That's good.

4071
03:35:25,270 --> 03:35:27,250
Speaker 2: Those of you who pay attention to the most important

4072
03:35:27,290 --> 03:35:29,730
Speaker 2: goings on of our neighbors to the north, and I mean, Canadians,

4073
03:35:29,800 --> 03:35:32,500
Speaker 2: not Yankees, for our southern listeners, know that the province

4074
03:35:32,540 --> 03:35:34,940
Speaker 2: of Alberta just held a referendum on whether or not

4075
03:35:34,980 --> 03:35:38,240
Speaker 2: to hold a binding referendum on separating from Canada. And

4076
03:35:38,340 --> 03:35:41,439
Speaker 2: the separatists failed, just like in Star Wars. Also, like

4077
03:35:41,500 --> 03:35:43,879
Speaker 2: in Star Wars, the roots of the Alberta secession movement

4078
03:35:43,920 --> 03:35:46,320
Speaker 2: have a lot to do with complex issues of trade,

4079
03:35:46,400 --> 03:35:51,269
Speaker 2: particularly the oil and gas trade. In 1969, only about 5%

4080
03:35:51,270 --> 03:35:55,330
Speaker 2: of Albertans expressed interest in discussing separation from Canada during

4081
03:35:55,370 --> 03:35:59,330
Speaker 2: a provincial poll. But then came the 1970s and the

4082
03:35:59,330 --> 03:36:01,410
Speaker 2: 1973 oil crisis, which was sparked by the Yom Kippur

4083
03:36:01,450 --> 03:36:04,350
Speaker 2: War and then OPEC getting big mad. OPEC got really

4084
03:36:04,370 --> 03:36:06,150
Speaker 2: mad a couple of times in the 70s. And there

4085
03:36:06,170 --> 03:36:08,640
Speaker 2: were a bunch of fuel shocks. If you grew up

4086
03:36:08,900 --> 03:36:10,740
Speaker 2: in like the time most of the people in this

4087
03:36:10,760 --> 03:36:12,780
Speaker 2: podcast did and you went to like an elementary or

4088
03:36:12,820 --> 03:36:14,600
Speaker 2: a middle school or any kind of public school that

4089
03:36:14,640 --> 03:36:17,599
Speaker 2: had no windows, that's because it was probably built around

4090
03:36:17,640 --> 03:36:19,940
Speaker 2: this period. And they were like desperate to find ways

4091
03:36:19,959 --> 03:36:21,720
Speaker 2: to reduce heating and cooling costs.

4092
03:36:21,780 --> 03:36:21,860
Speaker 7: Yeah.

4093
03:36:23,170 --> 03:36:23,620
Speaker 10: Amazing.

4094
03:36:23,780 --> 03:36:26,910
Speaker 2: And another impact that those fuel shocks had was that

4095
03:36:27,050 --> 03:36:29,770
Speaker 2: it caused a lot of North America to go like, well,

4096
03:36:29,890 --> 03:36:32,080
Speaker 2: I guess we have to exploit our own oil reserves

4097
03:36:32,220 --> 03:36:34,320
Speaker 2: much more because we cannot rely on the stuff we

4098
03:36:34,360 --> 03:36:37,140
Speaker 2: had been relying on. This helped spur massive and rapid

4099
03:36:37,200 --> 03:36:39,619
Speaker 2: growth in the North American oil sector, obviously across the

4100
03:36:39,660 --> 03:36:41,860
Speaker 2: United States, but in Canada as well. This was a

4101
03:36:42,000 --> 03:36:44,980
Speaker 2: big deal in Canada because Alberta happens to be one

4102
03:36:45,000 --> 03:36:48,000
Speaker 2: of the most oil-rich places on planet Earth. The province

4103
03:36:48,060 --> 03:36:50,959
Speaker 2: alone has the fourth highest proven reserves of oil on

4104
03:36:51,020 --> 03:36:54,379
Speaker 2: planet Earth, according to a 2025 report by a consulting firm,

4105
03:36:54,400 --> 03:36:57,700
Speaker 2: McDaniel & Associates. And we actually didn't– like this is

4106
03:36:57,760 --> 03:36:59,880
Speaker 2: actually a change in terms of what we knew about

4107
03:36:59,940 --> 03:37:02,900
Speaker 2: Alberta's oil reserves. They keep going up as we like

4108
03:37:03,070 --> 03:37:06,120
Speaker 2: figure out how to get better at– it's a mix of–

4109
03:37:06,420 --> 03:37:09,600
Speaker 2: hydraulic fracking and better science and whatnot, but they're getting

4110
03:37:09,640 --> 03:37:12,660
Speaker 2: better at finding out and exploiting how much oil there

4111
03:37:12,720 --> 03:37:15,840
Speaker 2: is in Alberta. About 2 million more barrels of oil

4112
03:37:15,879 --> 03:37:18,199
Speaker 2: were recently discovered in Alberta thanks to a mix of

4113
03:37:18,220 --> 03:37:21,199
Speaker 2: hydraulic fracturing and new technology for drilling wells. Per a

4114
03:37:21,220 --> 03:37:24,119
Speaker 2: write-up by the Bow Report, oil sands production has grown

4115
03:37:24,160 --> 03:37:27,400
Speaker 2: substantially in the past decade, up 70% from 2 million

4116
03:37:27,420 --> 03:37:30,039
Speaker 2: to 3.4 million barrels per day. The growth of several

4117
03:37:30,080 --> 03:37:33,000
Speaker 2: projects has increased confidence in the commercial viability of developing

4118
03:37:33,050 --> 03:37:36,840
Speaker 2: additional lands. Now, this is significant for a couple of reasons,

4119
03:37:36,959 --> 03:37:38,780
Speaker 2: but one thing that has grown over the past few

4120
03:37:38,820 --> 03:37:43,800
Speaker 2: decades alongside Alberta's proven oil reserves is secessionist or separatist sentiment.

4121
03:37:44,240 --> 03:37:47,300
Speaker 2: There are different opinions among those people about what should

4122
03:37:47,360 --> 03:37:50,340
Speaker 2: be done when and if Alberta separates, but a decent

4123
03:37:50,360 --> 03:37:52,740
Speaker 2: chunk of them do support joining the United States.

4124
03:37:53,200 --> 03:37:53,870
Speaker 1: And I don't think it.

4125
03:37:53,840 --> 03:37:56,290
Speaker 2: Takes a lot of imagining to wonder why some people

4126
03:37:56,350 --> 03:37:58,590
Speaker 2: in the charge of the United States government right now

4127
03:37:58,970 --> 03:38:02,710
Speaker 2: might support that. To continue with that Beau Report analysis,

4128
03:38:03,090 --> 03:38:05,850
Speaker 2: since the shale revolution in 2008, there's been a massive

4129
03:38:05,890 --> 03:38:07,879
Speaker 2: growth from North America, and the rest of the world

4130
03:38:08,000 --> 03:38:11,010
Speaker 2: hasn't grown oil production. we're now seeing that the tight

4131
03:38:11,050 --> 03:38:13,330
Speaker 2: plays in the U.S. aren't infinite and are showing signs

4132
03:38:13,370 --> 03:38:16,429
Speaker 2: of plateauing. Specifically, when we look at the United States'

4133
03:38:16,490 --> 03:38:19,119
Speaker 2: largest oil play, the Permian, it has essentially been flat

4134
03:38:19,180 --> 03:38:23,260
Speaker 2: at 5.5 million barrels per day since December of 2023.

4135
03:38:23,260 --> 03:38:26,539
Speaker 2: Flat production from the Permian is contrary to the previous decade,

4136
03:38:26,580 --> 03:38:28,840
Speaker 2: where we saw tight oil production grow by half a

4137
03:38:28,900 --> 03:38:31,980
Speaker 2: million barrels per day per year. Oil demand has gone

4138
03:38:32,020 --> 03:38:33,940
Speaker 2: up by about a million barrels a day per year

4139
03:38:33,990 --> 03:38:35,710
Speaker 2: for the last several decades, and at this point we

4140
03:38:35,730 --> 03:38:37,650
Speaker 2: do expect that to continue, at least in the very

4141
03:38:37,709 --> 03:38:40,860
Speaker 2: near term. Given the growing demand for oil and stagnation

4142
03:38:40,900 --> 03:38:43,640
Speaker 2: in supply growth since the shale revolution, it's expected that

4143
03:38:43,680 --> 03:38:47,140
Speaker 2: Alberta's oil sands reserves will become increasingly critical. As global

4144
03:38:47,240 --> 03:38:49,760
Speaker 2: oil demand continues to rise and with limited growth and

4145
03:38:49,800 --> 03:38:52,620
Speaker 2: production from other sources, oil sands reserves will be relied

4146
03:38:52,670 --> 03:38:56,230
Speaker 2: upon more heavily. So Alberta is one of the places

4147
03:38:56,270 --> 03:38:59,130
Speaker 2: in North America that we keep finding more oil. And

4148
03:38:59,390 --> 03:39:02,450
Speaker 2: as we start to plateau in the United States, people

4149
03:39:02,530 --> 03:39:05,460
Speaker 2: in the U.S. government, particularly the Trump administration, are looking

4150
03:39:05,480 --> 03:39:08,880
Speaker 2: at Alberta as a potential crucial resource for the future.

4151
03:39:09,820 --> 03:39:12,420
Speaker 2: So while there's a lot of wackiness around the Alberta

4152
03:39:12,440 --> 03:39:15,040
Speaker 2: secession movement, as there is with any secession movement in

4153
03:39:15,060 --> 03:39:18,820
Speaker 2: the U.S. or in Canada, there's also major geopolitical implications

4154
03:39:18,860 --> 03:39:22,099
Speaker 2: behind the mere discussion of Albertan independence. And the prize

4155
03:39:22,160 --> 03:39:24,640
Speaker 2: of Albertan oil was considered well worth some scheming by

4156
03:39:24,680 --> 03:39:28,350
Speaker 2: people in the Trump administration. The movement had gotten supercharged

4157
03:39:28,420 --> 03:39:31,580
Speaker 2: first during a conflict in the early 1980s between then

4158
03:39:31,660 --> 03:39:35,240
Speaker 2: Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau and the Albertan Premier Peter Lougheed,

4159
03:39:35,340 --> 03:39:38,840
Speaker 2: who disagreed about how fair Canada's revenue-sharing energy policy was.

4160
03:39:39,340 --> 03:39:42,560
Speaker 2: Trudeau argued that the federal government needed to control Canada's

4161
03:39:42,600 --> 03:39:45,360
Speaker 2: natural resources and sought to impose further taxes on oil

4162
03:39:45,400 --> 03:39:48,679
Speaker 2: and gas revenues. Lougheed threatened to cut production in response

4163
03:39:48,720 --> 03:39:52,940
Speaker 2: to new taxes. 49% of respondents in a 1981 poll

4164
03:39:52,959 --> 03:39:55,980
Speaker 2: by the Canada West Foundation agreed that Western Canadians benefited

4165
03:39:56,120 --> 03:39:59,000
Speaker 2: so little from membership in the Canadian state that independence

4166
03:39:59,060 --> 03:40:01,670
Speaker 2: made sense. And in the decades since, the issue has

4167
03:40:01,700 --> 03:40:05,430
Speaker 2: remained bubbling in the background, like crude. It was ignited

4168
03:40:05,470 --> 03:40:08,430
Speaker 2: in the modern era in 2015, when Pierre Trudeau's son

4169
03:40:08,530 --> 03:40:11,290
Speaker 2: Justin became the Prime Minister. And to make a long

4170
03:40:11,310 --> 03:40:13,490
Speaker 2: story short, over the last several years, things have really

4171
03:40:13,550 --> 03:40:16,600
Speaker 2: come to a head. separatist parties who had attracted like

4172
03:40:16,700 --> 03:40:19,380
Speaker 2: one or 2% of the vote previously were supercharged by

4173
03:40:19,459 --> 03:40:23,140
Speaker 2: COVID-19 restrictions. And then the fact that Trump's been launching

4174
03:40:23,180 --> 03:40:25,600
Speaker 2: a trade war and talking about making Canada the 51st state,

4175
03:40:25,980 --> 03:40:27,940
Speaker 2: that's also helped kind of clamp down on some of

4176
03:40:27,959 --> 03:40:29,699
Speaker 2: the separatist sentiment. It's a big part of what Prime

4177
03:40:29,730 --> 03:40:32,970
Speaker 2: Minister Carney has used to sort of like argue that

4178
03:40:33,070 --> 03:40:35,670
Speaker 2: Canadians need to stand together in this time. And he's

4179
03:40:35,730 --> 03:40:39,170
Speaker 2: right that the separatist movement is being like deliberately pushed

4180
03:40:39,629 --> 03:40:42,250
Speaker 2: by a whole bunch of people in the United States. Now, obviously,

4181
03:40:42,270 --> 03:40:45,320
Speaker 2: the most direct reason why this referendum came about is

4182
03:40:45,379 --> 03:40:48,880
Speaker 2: because in May, Albertan Premier Danielle Smith announced that the

4183
03:40:49,000 --> 03:40:51,900
Speaker 2: independence question would come to a vote. She supported a

4184
03:40:52,000 --> 03:40:55,080
Speaker 2: unified Canada, but was willing to have a referendum vote

4185
03:40:55,120 --> 03:40:58,360
Speaker 2: because over 300,000 Albertans had signed a petition asking for

4186
03:40:58,390 --> 03:41:01,450
Speaker 2: a referendum. The petition's signatures had been gathered after a

4187
03:41:01,490 --> 03:41:05,210
Speaker 2: mass town hall campaign by pro-separation citizens. It was blocked

4188
03:41:05,250 --> 03:41:07,930
Speaker 2: by a court for reasons to do with Indigenous rights initially,

4189
03:41:07,970 --> 03:41:10,709
Speaker 2: but was allowed to go through. Voters in this referendum

4190
03:41:10,730 --> 03:41:12,810
Speaker 2: had a number of choices to make, not just as

4191
03:41:12,830 --> 03:41:15,410
Speaker 2: to whether or not to do a binding referendum, although

4192
03:41:15,450 --> 03:41:17,080
Speaker 2: first they did have to choose, do we remain with

4193
03:41:17,110 --> 03:41:19,200
Speaker 2: Canada or do we start the process of holding a

4194
03:41:19,340 --> 03:41:23,290
Speaker 2: binding separation referendum? But, per the BBC, quote, There are

4195
03:41:23,330 --> 03:41:25,269
Speaker 2: nine other questions that have been put to voters, though

4196
03:41:25,290 --> 03:41:27,470
Speaker 2: they have been overshadowed by the one on independence. They

4197
03:41:27,510 --> 03:41:30,690
Speaker 2: deal with two main topics, immigration and constitutional matters. For

4198
03:41:30,709 --> 03:41:32,610
Speaker 2: the most part, all of them seek to ask Albertans

4199
03:41:32,650 --> 03:41:36,420
Speaker 2: about options to gain autonomy from Ottawa. Voters were also asked,

4200
03:41:36,440 --> 03:41:38,760
Speaker 2: for example, if they wanted more control on immigration and

4201
03:41:38,800 --> 03:41:41,379
Speaker 2: whether people should have to provide proof of citizenship to vote.

4202
03:41:42,290 --> 03:41:42,530
Speaker 7: U.S.

4203
03:41:42,570 --> 03:41:45,490
Speaker 2: Interests repeatedly attempted to influence the election in a number

4204
03:41:45,530 --> 03:41:48,570
Speaker 2: of ways. A write-up in Maclean's documents how U.S. Treasury

4205
03:41:48,610 --> 03:41:51,750
Speaker 2: Secretary Scott Besant held an interview with Jack Posobiec where

4206
03:41:51,770 --> 03:41:53,650
Speaker 2: he said, I think we should let them come down

4207
03:41:53,690 --> 03:41:56,290
Speaker 2: into the U.S. Alberta is a natural partner for the U.S.

4208
03:41:56,490 --> 03:41:58,410
Speaker 2: Rumor that they may have a referendum on whether they

4209
03:41:58,450 --> 03:41:59,410
Speaker 2: want to stay in the U.S.

4210
03:41:59,490 --> 03:41:59,830
Speaker 1: Or not.

4211
03:42:00,540 --> 03:42:03,259
Speaker 2: This was taken very seriously by Canadians as a statement

4212
03:42:03,280 --> 03:42:06,260
Speaker 2: of U.S. support for intervention in Canadian politics. Consistent with

4213
03:42:06,280 --> 03:42:10,480
Speaker 2: the 2025 national security strategy our regime released, which revealed

4214
03:42:10,560 --> 03:42:13,260
Speaker 2: what's known as the Trump corollary to the Monroe Doctrine.

4215
03:42:13,360 --> 03:42:14,320
Speaker 1: The Donro Doctrine?

4216
03:42:14,680 --> 03:42:14,900
Speaker 5: Yeah.

4217
03:42:15,240 --> 03:42:17,760
Speaker 2: This, per the White House, put Canada in the U.S.

4218
03:42:17,800 --> 03:42:22,280
Speaker 2: sphere of influence. As McLean's wrote, quote, The document was

4219
03:42:22,320 --> 03:42:24,600
Speaker 2: read with dread in Ottawa. The strategy has, of course,

4220
03:42:24,740 --> 03:42:27,140
Speaker 2: played out in rhetoric and policy. The administration wants a

4221
03:42:27,200 --> 03:42:30,459
Speaker 2: say on Canada's trade agreements. It wants specialized access to resources,

4222
03:42:30,560 --> 03:42:33,000
Speaker 2: and it has zero regard for notions of sovereignty, except,

4223
03:42:33,120 --> 03:42:35,490
Speaker 2: it seems, when it comes to Alberta. Now, the most

4224
03:42:35,570 --> 03:42:37,890
Speaker 2: direct U.S. influence in this whole process so far has

4225
03:42:37,930 --> 03:42:43,310
Speaker 2: been online. Tons of MAGA-affiliated accounts pushed Albertan secession. Benny

4226
03:42:43,370 --> 03:42:48,030
Speaker 2: Johnson suggested taking Alberta militarily. Stephen Crowder supported Albertan statehood.

4227
03:42:48,090 --> 03:42:51,760
Speaker 2: All sorts of stupid shit. A McGill study found pro-independence

4228
03:42:51,800 --> 03:42:56,060
Speaker 2: accounts on social media outperformed anti-independence accounts by an eight

4229
03:42:56,100 --> 03:42:59,920
Speaker 2: to one ratio, which is pretty clear evidence of interference

4230
03:42:59,959 --> 03:43:03,880
Speaker 2: by social media companies, I would say. Right before the referendum,

4231
03:43:04,000 --> 03:43:07,350
Speaker 2: Public Interest Alberta called for an inquiry into foreign interference

4232
03:43:07,450 --> 03:43:10,830
Speaker 2: in Alberta's secession referendum after it was found that Albertan

4233
03:43:10,910 --> 03:43:14,870
Speaker 2: separatist leaders held a meeting with U.S. Republican political strategists

4234
03:43:15,070 --> 03:43:18,600
Speaker 2: in the province about how to push the referendum. This

4235
03:43:18,680 --> 03:43:21,480
Speaker 2: is all very fucked up and Canadians should be pissed

4236
03:43:21,540 --> 03:43:24,200
Speaker 2: at us. The good news is that for now, things

4237
03:43:24,220 --> 03:43:26,890
Speaker 2: did not go MAGA's way, did not go the Trump

4238
03:43:26,930 --> 03:43:31,070
Speaker 2: administration's way. Albertans voted overwhelmingly to stay part of Canada.

4239
03:43:31,170 --> 03:43:33,570
Speaker 2: Nearly 2 million people cast their ballots and so far

4240
03:43:33,590 --> 03:43:34,990
Speaker 2: about 75% of them.

4241
03:43:34,910 --> 03:43:36,800
Speaker 1: Look to have supported remaining Canadian.

4242
03:43:37,500 --> 03:43:39,440
Speaker 2: I think we'll be continuing to cover aspects of this

4243
03:43:39,480 --> 03:43:41,040
Speaker 2: in the future, but that's what you need to know

4244
03:43:41,080 --> 03:43:41,380
Speaker 2: right now.

4245
03:43:42,040 --> 03:43:43,960
Speaker 1: Nice. Anything to add, Gare?

4246
03:43:44,879 --> 03:43:48,060
Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm glad that Alberta voted to not have a

4247
03:43:48,120 --> 03:43:49,699
Speaker 6: vote on whether to leave Canada.

4248
03:43:49,720 --> 03:43:50,099
Speaker 3: Yeah.

4249
03:43:50,760 --> 03:43:55,300
Speaker 6: Unfortunately, though, some of the more confusingly worded referendum questions

4250
03:43:55,400 --> 03:44:00,300
Speaker 6: on stuff like immigration were not as unanimous. The early

4251
03:44:00,379 --> 03:44:04,400
Speaker 6: count on a bunch of those immigration questions leans, yes,

4252
03:44:04,560 --> 03:44:09,760
Speaker 6: in favor of pursuing more restrictions, but the margins on

4253
03:44:09,900 --> 03:44:14,160
Speaker 6: those are pretty small and votes from cities like Edmonton

4254
03:44:14,200 --> 03:44:18,330
Speaker 6: and Calgary are still coming in. and could theoretically switch

4255
03:44:18,370 --> 03:44:21,410
Speaker 6: those over, but they'd have to go up a couple percent.

4256
03:44:22,230 --> 03:44:25,250
Speaker 6: Some of the other questions on changes to the Constitution

4257
03:44:25,690 --> 03:44:29,470
Speaker 6: have already flipped from yes to no, as we've been

4258
03:44:29,490 --> 03:44:33,670
Speaker 6: getting in more results from the cities. But these other

4259
03:44:33,690 --> 03:44:37,270
Speaker 6: questions are pretty close. We don't have full results quite yet.

4260
03:44:37,970 --> 03:44:42,110
Speaker 6: So although U.S. interference did not produce the result on

4261
03:44:42,190 --> 03:44:46,720
Speaker 6: separation that MAGA may have wanted, the type of immigration

4262
03:44:46,930 --> 03:44:51,000
Speaker 6: rhetoric that spreads on social media is not, you know,

4263
03:44:51,160 --> 03:44:53,379
Speaker 6: unique to the United States or really any kind of

4264
03:44:53,440 --> 03:44:57,940
Speaker 6: quote unquote Western country right now. There's pretty ugly stuff everywhere.

4265
03:44:57,959 --> 03:45:01,540
Speaker 6: But yeah, in terms of the separation referendum, that all

4266
03:45:02,240 --> 03:45:04,200
Speaker 6: lines up with what I've been reading in the old

4267
03:45:04,260 --> 03:45:09,190
Speaker 6: CBC and what I've been talking with my family about. Because, yeah,

4268
03:45:09,430 --> 03:45:10,090
Speaker 6: they've been voting.

4269
03:45:11,070 --> 03:45:11,530
Speaker 1: They're voting.

4270
03:45:11,550 --> 03:45:13,010
Speaker 2: I don't know, Canada, I'm going to give you the

4271
03:45:13,070 --> 03:45:16,790
Speaker 2: same advice I give every country these days. Invest in

4272
03:45:16,870 --> 03:45:18,350
Speaker 2: long-range missile defenses.

4273
03:45:19,240 --> 03:45:24,340
Speaker 6: Well, I don't know if that's the best use of

4274
03:45:24,560 --> 03:45:25,560
Speaker 6: Canadian state money.

4275
03:45:25,580 --> 03:45:31,130
Speaker 1: It might be. There are some countries that really do

4276
03:45:31,150 --> 03:45:31,670
Speaker 1: like this.

4277
03:45:32,230 --> 03:45:36,070
Speaker 6: But no, I mean, Alberta really is the heart of

4278
03:45:36,129 --> 03:45:39,240
Speaker 6: the kind of conservative movement in Canada right now. This

4279
03:45:39,300 --> 03:45:42,240
Speaker 6: is where, like, you know, like the... The trucker convoy

4280
03:45:42,440 --> 03:45:46,540
Speaker 6: was organized, all of those. All those many years ago.

4281
03:45:46,560 --> 03:45:49,460
Speaker 2: It is one of three provinces I've heard described as

4282
03:45:49,500 --> 03:45:50,340
Speaker 2: Canada's Texas.

4283
03:45:50,700 --> 03:45:54,110
Speaker 6: It is. That's the only one that's accurate, right? People

4284
03:45:54,129 --> 03:45:56,670
Speaker 6: could say maybe Manitoba or Saskatchewan.

4285
03:45:56,690 --> 03:45:57,189
Speaker 1: They're lying.

4286
03:45:57,209 --> 03:45:59,090
Speaker 6: Those are obviously Midwest states.

4287
03:45:59,430 --> 03:46:01,650
Speaker 2: Nova Scotia's got a little bit of Texas in it,

4288
03:46:01,770 --> 03:46:05,590
Speaker 2: but only a little. No, it's definitely Alberta. I mean,

4289
03:46:05,850 --> 03:46:09,690
Speaker 2: my family lives surrounded by oil derricks. It's quite incredible.

4290
03:46:09,720 --> 03:46:10,320
Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

4291
03:46:10,950 --> 03:46:16,830
Speaker 6: Should we stick to non-US countries and pivot to Mia Wong?

4292
03:46:17,410 --> 03:46:20,379
Speaker 13: So speaking of places where people are pissed off at

4293
03:46:20,400 --> 03:46:23,519
Speaker 13: the Trump administration, we are moving to our dispatches from

4294
03:46:23,560 --> 03:46:27,640
Speaker 13: a world in revolt. And we're moving first to Albania,

4295
03:46:28,520 --> 03:46:35,090
Speaker 13: which has seen staggeringly large protests over the last roughly

4296
03:46:35,250 --> 03:46:39,350
Speaker 13: a week. It's very difficult to get good numbers on

4297
03:46:39,770 --> 03:46:43,820
Speaker 13: how big the Albanian protests are. I will say just

4298
03:46:43,930 --> 03:46:47,220
Speaker 13: off the top as a indication of how successful they've been,

4299
03:46:47,240 --> 03:46:49,860
Speaker 13: they lit the Supreme Court on fire. They lit part

4300
03:46:49,920 --> 03:46:54,099
Speaker 13: of the Albanian Central Bank on fire. So the protests

4301
03:46:54,120 --> 03:46:56,480
Speaker 13: that have rocked Albania over the last week are a

4302
03:46:56,580 --> 03:47:03,290
Speaker 13: massive escalation of ongoing protests over a basically city-sized seaside

4303
03:47:03,690 --> 03:47:07,350
Speaker 13: real estate development tied to Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump,

4304
03:47:08,010 --> 03:47:11,350
Speaker 13: whose firm Affinity Partners. Okay, so this is where it

4305
03:47:11,370 --> 03:47:15,789
Speaker 13: gets murky because they've been granted special investment status by

4306
03:47:15,810 --> 03:47:21,010
Speaker 13: the government. They also talked about this development project. There's

4307
03:47:21,030 --> 03:47:23,050
Speaker 13: a video, I think, on Instagram of them talking about

4308
03:47:23,070 --> 03:47:24,670
Speaker 13: it and how they discovered this place when they went

4309
03:47:24,690 --> 03:47:29,039
Speaker 13: on vacation. It's kind of unclear exactly the extent to

4310
03:47:29,060 --> 03:47:30,200
Speaker 13: which they are involved in it.

4311
03:47:30,879 --> 03:47:31,240
Speaker 1: I don't know.

4312
03:47:31,320 --> 03:47:33,680
Speaker 13: No one seems to exactly know how closely tied they're in.

4313
03:47:33,700 --> 03:47:36,070
Speaker 13: I've seen some reports, like the rumor is that they're

4314
03:47:36,090 --> 03:47:39,570
Speaker 13: just straight up selling it to Kushner's firm, right? This

4315
03:47:39,670 --> 03:47:42,250
Speaker 13: development is going to be built on a wildlife reserve

4316
03:47:42,290 --> 03:47:44,530
Speaker 13: that is home to a whole bunch of animals like

4317
03:47:44,590 --> 03:47:48,450
Speaker 13: sea turtles and importantly, a bunch of flamingos, which has

4318
03:47:48,510 --> 03:47:50,789
Speaker 13: led to this, you know, these protests, the original version

4319
03:47:50,830 --> 03:47:53,790
Speaker 13: of these protests being dubbed the Flamingo Revolution.

4320
03:47:53,810 --> 03:47:54,390
Speaker 3: Nice.

4321
03:47:54,910 --> 03:47:58,539
Speaker 13: But- The protests kicked into a higher gear in the

4322
03:47:58,600 --> 03:48:02,180
Speaker 13: last week. As I mentioned before, the protesters have been

4323
03:48:02,220 --> 03:48:05,240
Speaker 13: extremely successful in combating security forces. Again, they lit the

4324
03:48:05,260 --> 03:48:08,800
Speaker 13: Supreme Court on fire. They have spread rapidly across the country.

4325
03:48:09,360 --> 03:48:14,260
Speaker 13: Albania's nominally socialist party president has blamed conservatives and also

4326
03:48:14,320 --> 03:48:20,650
Speaker 13: Iran for fomenting the protests. But this rings somewhat hollow,

4327
03:48:20,709 --> 03:48:23,690
Speaker 13: given that a very prominent young member of his own party,

4328
03:48:23,730 --> 03:48:26,770
Speaker 13: who he had handpicked to run... at like age 25,

4329
03:48:26,770 --> 03:48:29,370
Speaker 13: also joined the protest during the original phase of it.

4330
03:48:30,310 --> 03:48:33,710
Speaker 13: And the intensification of these protests and their expansion from

4331
03:48:34,470 --> 03:48:37,570
Speaker 13: being sort of solely about this real estate development to

4332
03:48:37,629 --> 03:48:39,810
Speaker 13: being about the things that all the rest of the

4333
03:48:39,850 --> 03:48:44,510
Speaker 13: uprisings are about, which is to say unemployment, terrible education,

4334
03:48:45,430 --> 03:48:49,640
Speaker 13: bad economic prospects, are very directly linked to the other

4335
03:48:49,700 --> 03:48:54,890
Speaker 13: uprisings in France, Spain, India, and other places. People are

4336
03:48:54,990 --> 03:48:57,930
Speaker 13: directly inspired when you read interviews of them in the streets.

4337
03:48:57,970 --> 03:49:00,590
Speaker 13: They're directly inspired by what... I don't know if I

4338
03:49:00,640 --> 03:49:03,640
Speaker 13: like the name, the Gen Z revolt, but that's kind

4339
03:49:03,660 --> 03:49:05,740
Speaker 13: of what it's being called. Yeah, and there is this

4340
03:49:05,920 --> 03:49:12,040
Speaker 13: massive generational conflict element of these protests. Yeah, although again,

4341
03:49:12,080 --> 03:49:14,259
Speaker 13: it's worth noting that a lot of the people involved

4342
03:49:14,300 --> 03:49:17,020
Speaker 13: in this are a lot older than that. I think

4343
03:49:17,860 --> 03:49:21,060
Speaker 13: part of what's happening is like... It's like the students

4344
03:49:21,080 --> 03:49:22,620
Speaker 13: who are the first people to take the street and

4345
03:49:22,680 --> 03:49:24,560
Speaker 13: then everyone else goes with them.

4346
03:49:24,580 --> 03:49:27,120
Speaker 1: And that tends to be the case like generally, right?

4347
03:49:27,440 --> 03:49:30,580
Speaker 1: Like it's generally young people who are just a bit

4348
03:49:30,620 --> 03:49:34,640
Speaker 1: less risk averse and who tend to do those things.

4349
03:49:34,940 --> 03:49:38,520
Speaker 1: They have less stake in ways continuing exactly how they are.

4350
03:49:38,540 --> 03:49:39,260
Speaker 9: Yeah.

4351
03:49:39,390 --> 03:49:41,070
Speaker 1: And more to gain, right? Like they have the rest

4352
03:49:41,100 --> 03:49:42,340
Speaker 1: of their lives to deal with this shit.

4353
03:49:42,500 --> 03:49:42,680
Speaker 5: Yeah.

4354
03:49:43,070 --> 03:49:43,230
Speaker 1: Yep.

4355
03:49:44,050 --> 03:49:46,230
Speaker 13: And, you know, I think this is actually very encouraging

4356
03:49:46,270 --> 03:49:50,410
Speaker 13: that you're seeing very, very deliberate sort of tying of

4357
03:49:50,450 --> 03:49:52,450
Speaker 13: these protests to the protests going on in other countries

4358
03:49:53,370 --> 03:49:56,610
Speaker 13: in a way that wasn't really true of like the 2018, 2019,

4359
03:49:56,610 --> 03:49:59,400
Speaker 13: 2020 wave of protests. And it harkens back to the

4360
03:49:59,440 --> 03:50:02,080
Speaker 13: sort of internationalism of 2011, where you would have things

4361
03:50:02,140 --> 03:50:06,040
Speaker 13: like protesters who were occupying Tucker Square would be like

4362
03:50:06,180 --> 03:50:10,450
Speaker 13: ordering pizzas for striking teachers in Wisconsin. Like that kind of,

4363
03:50:10,550 --> 03:50:14,730
Speaker 13: this is closer, not fully there, but closer to that

4364
03:50:14,770 --> 03:50:17,930
Speaker 13: kind of era of solidarity between these movements. And a

4365
03:50:17,970 --> 03:50:20,310
Speaker 13: lot of that is because the people taking the streets

4366
03:50:20,370 --> 03:50:23,870
Speaker 13: are seeing the same economic conditions everywhere and are seeing

4367
03:50:23,950 --> 03:50:30,800
Speaker 13: people go fight. And that helps to break the passivity

4368
03:50:30,820 --> 03:50:33,260
Speaker 13: of the hour and get people into the streets. Speaking

4369
03:50:33,280 --> 03:50:35,520
Speaker 13: of getting people into the streets, we're going to turn

4370
03:50:35,560 --> 03:50:39,600
Speaker 13: from Albania to France, where the question in France for

4371
03:50:39,640 --> 03:50:43,810
Speaker 13: the last few weeks had been fairly simple. The question was,

4372
03:50:44,050 --> 03:50:46,310
Speaker 13: will the rest of French society join the French students

4373
03:50:46,330 --> 03:50:48,690
Speaker 13: in the streets, or would they let the student movement.

4374
03:50:48,690 --> 03:50:49,350
Speaker 1: Be crushed alone?

4375
03:50:50,330 --> 03:50:54,730
Speaker 13: And this weekend, to its credit, French society issued a

4376
03:50:54,750 --> 03:50:57,910
Speaker 13: fairly resounding answer. Yes, we are going to go into

4377
03:50:57,930 --> 03:51:01,210
Speaker 13: the streets. And the result of that was, over the weekend,

4378
03:51:01,310 --> 03:51:05,170
Speaker 13: France saw the largest protest the country has seen since

4379
03:51:05,400 --> 03:51:08,839
Speaker 13: at minimum the peak of the Gilets Jaunes Yellow Vest uprising.

4380
03:51:09,730 --> 03:51:14,550
Speaker 13: possibly larger and it's been defined by a level of

4381
03:51:14,630 --> 03:51:17,830
Speaker 13: militancy that even in a nation defined by the riot

4382
03:51:18,470 --> 03:51:21,260
Speaker 13: is almost more characteristic of a small revolution than a

4383
03:51:21,300 --> 03:51:22,480
Speaker 13: large protest.

4384
03:51:22,830 --> 03:51:26,060
Speaker 1: The gilets jaunes like they've set up a whole website

4385
03:51:26,740 --> 03:51:29,120
Speaker 1: to convene people to protest and they have another one

4386
03:51:29,180 --> 03:51:30,900
Speaker 1: coming up on the 24th.

4387
03:51:30,980 --> 03:51:33,220
Speaker 13: Yeah yeah and that that's part of what's been happening

4388
03:51:33,240 --> 03:51:37,020
Speaker 13: here is that you know The student protests survived long

4389
03:51:37,080 --> 03:51:39,140
Speaker 13: enough for the dates that the yellow vests had set up.

4390
03:51:39,300 --> 03:51:43,870
Speaker 13: And what this has caused is a huge swath of

4391
03:51:43,930 --> 03:51:46,810
Speaker 13: both the French left and the French working class out there.

4392
03:51:47,230 --> 03:51:50,510
Speaker 13: You're seeing everyone from, like, proles in, like, you know,

4393
03:51:50,570 --> 03:51:53,650
Speaker 13: French territories in Réunion and Guadalupe, where, like, in Guadalupe,

4394
03:51:53,670 --> 03:51:56,710
Speaker 13: people seem to be, like, shooting at police stations and stuff, to,

4395
03:51:56,810 --> 03:51:58,430
Speaker 13: you know, you have the remains of the yellow vests.

4396
03:51:58,980 --> 03:52:01,340
Speaker 13: And in something that is genuinely sort of remarkable for

4397
03:52:01,360 --> 03:52:05,270
Speaker 13: French society, you're seeing... Both the white and non-white French

4398
03:52:05,310 --> 03:52:07,530
Speaker 13: working classes go out at the same time, which is

4399
03:52:07,550 --> 03:52:10,070
Speaker 13: something that very, very rarely happens. Usually when one segment

4400
03:52:10,110 --> 03:52:12,150
Speaker 13: goes out, the other one doesn't. So if you look

4401
03:52:12,170 --> 03:52:17,250
Speaker 13: at the riots in 2023 against police killings, were probably

4402
03:52:17,290 --> 03:52:22,060
Speaker 13: the most militant street movement you've seen in France in ages.

4403
03:52:22,960 --> 03:52:25,720
Speaker 13: But it was just the non-white workers going out. And

4404
03:52:25,820 --> 03:52:28,580
Speaker 13: this time it's been both, partially because the student movement

4405
03:52:29,240 --> 03:52:32,179
Speaker 13: was born in a bunch of working class suburbs of Paris,

4406
03:52:32,220 --> 03:52:34,570
Speaker 13: but then spread to the rest of Paris and the

4407
03:52:34,610 --> 03:52:36,970
Speaker 13: rest of the country, you've been seeing a sort of

4408
03:52:37,010 --> 03:52:40,070
Speaker 13: alliance here in a way that you haven't in a

4409
03:52:40,110 --> 03:52:43,700
Speaker 13: long time. And the consequence of this is that when

4410
03:52:44,280 --> 03:52:47,600
Speaker 13: enough of the French working class goes out together, you

4411
03:52:47,620 --> 03:52:49,260
Speaker 13: can start doing the thing that they're doing right now,

4412
03:52:49,300 --> 03:52:52,620
Speaker 13: which is burning down city halls. And you can see this,

4413
03:52:52,660 --> 03:52:55,740
Speaker 13: when you read accounts from people on the ground, it

4414
03:52:55,760 --> 03:53:00,460
Speaker 13: doesn't read like an account of even a pretty militant

4415
03:53:00,500 --> 03:53:03,060
Speaker 13: French protest. It reads like something out of 1848. You're

4416
03:53:03,240 --> 03:53:06,380
Speaker 13: reading things like, quote, thousands of people are in the

4417
03:53:06,400 --> 03:53:10,600
Speaker 13: Elise district setting up barricades. These are the largest mobilizations

4418
03:53:10,620 --> 03:53:14,710
Speaker 13: we've seen this decade. It's hard to get good numbers

4419
03:53:14,730 --> 03:53:17,770
Speaker 13: of the peak of the Gilets Jaunes. The government is

4420
03:53:17,830 --> 03:53:21,850
Speaker 13: estimating 500,000. The unions estimate 800,000, which I think is

4421
03:53:21,870 --> 03:53:25,400
Speaker 13: much closer. I've seen estimates up into the millions. This

4422
03:53:25,440 --> 03:53:27,280
Speaker 13: was also a massive shock to the government. The government

4423
03:53:27,300 --> 03:53:29,400
Speaker 13: had been projecting that about 100,000 people would come out.

4424
03:53:29,440 --> 03:53:31,580
Speaker 13: They were projecting the movement was about to die. And

4425
03:53:31,600 --> 03:53:35,470
Speaker 13: then suddenly, you know, eight to 10 times as many

4426
03:53:35,510 --> 03:53:37,350
Speaker 13: people as the government thought was going to be out

4427
03:53:37,410 --> 03:53:41,070
Speaker 13: came out. And this is also surprising to some extent

4428
03:53:41,210 --> 03:53:44,730
Speaker 13: in that this uprising differs a lot from the last

4429
03:53:44,790 --> 03:53:47,470
Speaker 13: half decade of anti-austerity protests and general strikes, right? There

4430
03:53:47,490 --> 03:53:50,970
Speaker 13: have been a lot of general strikes in the last

4431
03:53:51,650 --> 03:53:54,480
Speaker 13: half a decade, but The call for this didn't come

4432
03:53:54,580 --> 03:53:58,210
Speaker 13: out from the unions. It came out from a whole

4433
03:53:58,270 --> 03:54:00,650
Speaker 13: bunch of decentralized networks, including the sort of yellow vest things,

4434
03:54:00,690 --> 03:54:02,470
Speaker 13: including the student movement networks. And because of that, it

4435
03:54:02,510 --> 03:54:05,710
Speaker 13: was able to put into the streets almost an order

4436
03:54:05,770 --> 03:54:07,690
Speaker 13: of magnitude more people than anyone else has been able

4437
03:54:07,730 --> 03:54:11,060
Speaker 13: to call out. And it puts the French state in

4438
03:54:11,080 --> 03:54:13,580
Speaker 13: a somewhat difficult position because there isn't really a force

4439
03:54:13,620 --> 03:54:15,880
Speaker 13: that can just rein the protests in, in a way

4440
03:54:15,920 --> 03:54:17,960
Speaker 13: that you had with the French, with the general strikes,

4441
03:54:17,980 --> 03:54:20,480
Speaker 13: where you can negotiate with the unions and There's just

4442
03:54:20,520 --> 03:54:22,840
Speaker 13: an unbelievable number of extremely angry people in the streets,

4443
03:54:22,920 --> 03:54:26,320
Speaker 13: and we're going to see how the protest continues to

4444
03:54:26,380 --> 03:54:29,890
Speaker 13: escalate this weekend. I'm going to move to a couple

4445
03:54:30,130 --> 03:54:35,110
Speaker 13: of kind of small ones. So in Tunisia, we had

4446
03:54:35,130 --> 03:54:41,020
Speaker 13: Tunisia's largest union calling a pretty large anti-government protest, which

4447
03:54:41,060 --> 03:54:45,160
Speaker 13: is pretty notable because Tunisia has been under the rule

4448
03:54:45,360 --> 03:54:49,720
Speaker 13: of effectively a dictator who came in promising to sort

4449
03:54:49,740 --> 03:54:53,440
Speaker 13: of like end the rampant corruption and unemployment of the

4450
03:54:53,460 --> 03:54:57,460
Speaker 13: sort of post-revolutionary Indonesia. That hasn't happened. But Said has

4451
03:54:57,480 --> 03:55:00,580
Speaker 13: been like incredibly effective at repressing protests and repressing opposition.

4452
03:55:00,970 --> 03:55:03,310
Speaker 13: And this is the largest group, like group of people

4453
03:55:03,330 --> 03:55:05,750
Speaker 13: anyone's been able to put in the streets in basically

4454
03:55:05,770 --> 03:55:07,490
Speaker 13: since he came to power. So we're going to be

4455
03:55:07,510 --> 03:55:10,410
Speaker 13: monitoring what's happening there. It's also worth mentioning what's going

4456
03:55:10,470 --> 03:55:15,190
Speaker 13: on in Italy, where there have been some small protests

4457
03:55:15,210 --> 03:55:19,050
Speaker 13: and In the north, I say small, very effective, but

4458
03:55:19,110 --> 03:55:22,130
Speaker 13: small protests in the north that like managed to sack

4459
03:55:22,170 --> 03:55:25,190
Speaker 13: a whole bunch of Milan shopping district, which pissed off

4460
03:55:25,210 --> 03:55:27,850
Speaker 13: the government enormously. So there's a troop deployment going on

4461
03:55:27,870 --> 03:55:32,210
Speaker 13: in Milan. But I think more interestingly are the protests

4462
03:55:32,230 --> 03:55:34,250
Speaker 13: happening in the south at the same time where there's

4463
03:55:34,290 --> 03:55:37,350
Speaker 13: a set of roadblocks that are being maintained as part

4464
03:55:37,370 --> 03:55:40,030
Speaker 13: of a truckers protest over sort of rising diesel. Diesel

4465
03:55:40,050 --> 03:55:44,290
Speaker 13: prices are skyrocketing. Just there just isn't diesel to buy.

4466
03:55:45,550 --> 03:55:48,430
Speaker 13: which means that a bunch of the trucking sector that

4467
03:55:48,510 --> 03:55:52,200
Speaker 13: fuels the export economy of the agricultural parts of southern

4468
03:55:52,280 --> 03:55:56,100
Speaker 13: Italy are collapsing because the truckers who are independent contractors

4469
03:55:56,240 --> 03:56:01,000
Speaker 13: can't afford diesel. And that's been crushing their industry. And

4470
03:56:01,020 --> 03:56:02,820
Speaker 13: so we're starting to see blockades of the roads leading

4471
03:56:02,840 --> 03:56:05,400
Speaker 13: up to ports. And that's something that I think can

4472
03:56:05,480 --> 03:56:07,920
Speaker 13: escalate because there just has not really been a government

4473
03:56:07,940 --> 03:56:12,040
Speaker 13: solution to these problems. Finally, I want to talk about Indonesia,

4474
03:56:12,640 --> 03:56:15,440
Speaker 13: where on Tuesday the 19th, or yesterday as we were

4475
03:56:15,460 --> 03:56:20,080
Speaker 13: recording this, protests sort of begun in earnest against the

4476
03:56:20,120 --> 03:56:24,790
Speaker 13: country's increasingly embattled right-wing president, Prabowo Subianto, who is a

4477
03:56:24,830 --> 03:56:28,110
Speaker 13: former general and a former minister of defense and who

4478
03:56:28,170 --> 03:56:32,270
Speaker 13: came in on a very sort of like right-wing military

4479
03:56:32,290 --> 03:56:35,930
Speaker 13: fascist platform. Subianto has come under fire, and I use

4480
03:56:35,950 --> 03:56:38,130
Speaker 13: that term quite literally here, for his failure to even

4481
03:56:38,230 --> 03:56:42,080
Speaker 13: vaguely contain a massive series of wildfires in Sumatra and

4482
03:56:42,110 --> 03:56:46,960
Speaker 13: Borneo that have been going on since July. So this

4483
03:56:47,000 --> 03:56:49,200
Speaker 13: is not a situation where people are mad at the

4484
03:56:49,240 --> 03:56:51,980
Speaker 13: government for not being able to control the weather. These

4485
03:56:52,040 --> 03:56:55,740
Speaker 13: fires have been going on for four months, and they

4486
03:56:55,780 --> 03:56:58,580
Speaker 13: have covered not just Indonesia, but a broad swath of

4487
03:56:58,620 --> 03:57:02,230
Speaker 13: the entire region in these clouds of toxic smoke. And

4488
03:57:02,250 --> 03:57:05,470
Speaker 13: I mean, these clouds of toxic smoke are reaching Vietnam, right?

4489
03:57:05,510 --> 03:57:07,210
Speaker 13: And this has been going on for four months now,

4490
03:57:07,250 --> 03:57:08,770
Speaker 13: and the government has not been able to put them out.

4491
03:57:08,870 --> 03:57:12,210
Speaker 13: People are extremely pissed. I'm going to quote here from

4492
03:57:12,230 --> 03:57:15,150
Speaker 13: Arab News, quote, the Ministry of Health, this is just

4493
03:57:15,190 --> 03:57:18,070
Speaker 13: in Indonesia, The Ministry of Health has recorded at least

4494
03:57:18,070 --> 03:57:22,670
Speaker 13: 277,000 cases of acute respiratory infection related to the fires

4495
03:57:22,710 --> 03:57:27,310
Speaker 13: so far, of which 60,000 are children under five. So

4496
03:57:27,530 --> 03:57:30,470
Speaker 13: this has pushed people into the streets in the last

4497
03:57:30,650 --> 03:57:33,660
Speaker 13: couple of days. Again, this is a set of protests

4498
03:57:33,680 --> 03:57:37,700
Speaker 13: that begun with students like hearkening to the student protests

4499
03:57:37,960 --> 03:57:40,630
Speaker 13: across the world. The government has said it will deploy

4500
03:57:40,630 --> 03:57:44,690
Speaker 13: 9000 police officers to crush the protests. It's unclear exactly

4501
03:57:44,750 --> 03:57:47,510
Speaker 13: how this is going to go because we're in effectively

4502
03:57:47,560 --> 03:57:50,300
Speaker 13: day two of them as we're recording. Yeah, and we

4503
03:57:50,340 --> 03:57:52,540
Speaker 13: will keep you informed as that situation unfolds.

4504
03:57:53,360 --> 03:57:55,640
Speaker 6: Let's go on one more ad break and then return

4505
03:57:55,740 --> 03:57:57,620
Speaker 6: for two more important stories.

4506
03:58:08,770 --> 03:58:12,930
Speaker 1: So talking of like a world on fire. Yeah. Let's

4507
03:58:12,990 --> 03:58:17,190
Speaker 1: talk about Iran and Ukraine, right? So the UK MTO's report,

4508
03:58:17,270 --> 03:58:20,570
Speaker 1: Maritime Trade Office, I believe, indicated that the Maritime Reporting

4509
03:58:20,630 --> 03:58:23,740
Speaker 1: Agency has struggled to, I'm just going to quote from it,

4510
03:58:24,050 --> 03:58:28,000
Speaker 1: struggling to accurately report true numbers of attacks with majority

4511
03:58:28,020 --> 03:58:31,760
Speaker 1: of vessels refusing to report to UK MTO. And then

4512
03:58:31,800 --> 03:58:34,560
Speaker 1: in that bullet point, UK MTO is aware via other

4513
03:58:34,600 --> 03:58:38,540
Speaker 1: sources of incidents but constrained on reporting through lack of verification.

4514
03:58:39,250 --> 03:58:42,350
Speaker 1: Despite this, they recorded more than a dozen attacks last week.

4515
03:58:43,070 --> 03:58:46,550
Speaker 1: And they recorded that transit to the strait was 70% lower,

4516
03:58:46,570 --> 03:58:50,310
Speaker 1: straight from Hormuz, obviously, than pre-conflict levels. While a lot

4517
03:58:50,330 --> 03:58:53,930
Speaker 1: of oil is moving through that east-west Saudi pipeline that

4518
03:58:53,990 --> 03:58:57,510
Speaker 1: bypasses straight from Hormuz, it seems the move in Hormuz

4519
03:58:57,560 --> 03:58:59,980
Speaker 1: right now is to use smaller craft to offload to

4520
03:59:00,030 --> 03:59:04,400
Speaker 1: larger vessels. This, of course, is all happening at the

4521
03:59:04,460 --> 03:59:09,570
Speaker 1: same time that Ukraine has continued to use Long-range drone

4522
03:59:09,610 --> 03:59:13,950
Speaker 1: attacks to batter Russian fuel infrastructure launched a bunch of

4523
03:59:14,010 --> 03:59:18,060
Speaker 1: larger scale operations over the weekend. And it appears that

4524
03:59:18,120 --> 03:59:21,420
Speaker 1: the world's most divorced man is not happy about this.

4525
03:59:21,800 --> 03:59:24,890
Speaker 1: That's Elon Musk, if you're not familiar. Elon Musk has

4526
03:59:24,950 --> 03:59:29,110
Speaker 1: been gating the speed at which Ukraine can remain connected

4527
03:59:29,130 --> 03:59:32,150
Speaker 1: to the internet through his Starshield system. He started doing

4528
03:59:32,190 --> 03:59:36,530
Speaker 1: this about the 14th of October, which was last Wednesday

4529
03:59:36,570 --> 03:59:40,030
Speaker 1: for you listening on Friday. This has serious impacts for

4530
03:59:40,090 --> 03:59:44,220
Speaker 1: Ukrainian drone offensives. According to posts by Ukrainian officials on Telegram,

4531
03:59:44,240 --> 03:59:48,020
Speaker 1: they weren't warned about this. They already can't use the

4532
03:59:48,100 --> 03:59:52,960
Speaker 1: Starshield itself in Russian territory and But for other operations,

4533
03:59:53,100 --> 03:59:56,480
Speaker 1: it seems that they've been limited to connecting at speeds

4534
03:59:56,580 --> 04:00:00,780
Speaker 1: below 100 miles an hour, 160 kph. This 100 mile

4535
04:00:00,860 --> 04:00:02,670
Speaker 1: an hour limit seems to be something that they've now

4536
04:00:02,700 --> 04:00:04,970
Speaker 1: arrived at. But when this was first happening, people were

4537
04:00:04,990 --> 04:00:08,770
Speaker 1: experiencing connectivity issues even slower than that. So it's not

4538
04:00:08,810 --> 04:00:12,870
Speaker 1: uncommon for drones to be equipped with a terminal, like

4539
04:00:13,110 --> 04:00:16,790
Speaker 1: a Star Shield or Starlink terminal, to either function as

4540
04:00:16,830 --> 04:00:19,820
Speaker 1: a relay or in some cases, like the actual drone

4541
04:00:19,850 --> 04:00:22,720
Speaker 1: that engages the russians will have a terminal on it

4542
04:00:23,360 --> 04:00:26,160
Speaker 1: they also use them on interceptor drones i'm not entirely

4543
04:00:26,240 --> 04:00:28,780
Speaker 1: clear how like i i can guess but i'm not

4544
04:00:28,820 --> 04:00:31,340
Speaker 1: going to think like guess in public someone knows i'd

4545
04:00:31,360 --> 04:00:34,860
Speaker 1: love to hear cool zone tips at proton.me if you're

4546
04:00:34,880 --> 04:00:38,560
Speaker 1: not familiar with star shield star shield is a gov

4547
04:00:38,600 --> 04:00:42,040
Speaker 1: slash military version of star link sometimes it has access

4548
04:00:42,060 --> 04:00:46,220
Speaker 1: to faster speeds certain specific satellites they're not entirely interchangeable

4549
04:00:46,280 --> 04:00:50,220
Speaker 1: but Starshield can use that Starlink network kind of plus,

4550
04:00:50,420 --> 04:00:54,250
Speaker 1: I guess. Ukraine has a couple of things. It has

4551
04:00:54,330 --> 04:00:59,250
Speaker 1: Starshield and then it has a registry of Ukraine Ministry

4552
04:00:59,290 --> 04:01:03,250
Speaker 1: of Defense Starlink terminals, which seems to be a separate thing, right?

4553
04:01:03,270 --> 04:01:05,390
Speaker 1: But like when it took a long time, but eventually

4554
04:01:05,450 --> 04:01:09,130
Speaker 1: Starlink turned off support for the Starlink terminals that Russians

4555
04:01:09,150 --> 04:01:11,880
Speaker 1: were using, right? And it seems that they have this registry,

4556
04:01:11,940 --> 04:01:16,790
Speaker 1: which is oftentimes units in Ukraine will either fundraise purchase

4557
04:01:16,910 --> 04:01:19,330
Speaker 1: or have donated to them a Starlink terminal and then

4558
04:01:19,350 --> 04:01:21,390
Speaker 1: they can go to the Ministry of Defense and be like, hey,

4559
04:01:21,410 --> 04:01:23,410
Speaker 1: can you add this to your list? And then it's

4560
04:01:23,450 --> 04:01:27,870
Speaker 1: treated differently by the company as opposed to like, and

4561
04:01:27,910 --> 04:01:31,590
Speaker 1: I guess the deal there is to avoid Russians buying it.

4562
04:01:31,630 --> 04:01:33,850
Speaker 1: They don't want to be supportive of Russia invading Ukraine,

4563
04:01:33,870 --> 04:01:38,170
Speaker 1: at least in that way. On X.com, the Everything website,

4564
04:01:38,310 --> 04:01:41,030
Speaker 1: Elon Musk claimed that, quote, Starshield systems are owned and

4565
04:01:41,070 --> 04:01:43,950
Speaker 1: controlled by the US government. Any limits on speed or

4566
04:01:44,070 --> 04:01:48,200
Speaker 1: usage are decided by the US military and ultimately POTUS. Starlink,

4567
04:01:48,220 --> 04:01:52,620
Speaker 1: of course, is a commercial service owned by SpaceX. I'm

4568
04:01:52,640 --> 04:01:56,500
Speaker 1: continuing quote from Musk here. Usage of Starlink is limited

4569
04:01:56,580 --> 04:01:59,200
Speaker 1: to civilian or defense activities cannot be used for offensive

4570
04:01:59,250 --> 04:02:02,270
Speaker 1: military action as doing so would be inappropriate for a

4571
04:02:02,290 --> 04:02:06,510
Speaker 1: commercial company. On the 17th of October, Marco Rubio then

4572
04:02:06,550 --> 04:02:09,190
Speaker 1: went on to claim that Ukraine does not have Starshield.

4573
04:02:09,490 --> 04:02:10,830
Speaker 3: On Starshield, what's going on?

4574
04:02:10,870 --> 04:02:12,170
Speaker 10: Because Elon Musk said.

4575
04:02:12,110 --> 04:02:13,000
Speaker 1: It's up to the president.

4576
04:02:13,420 --> 04:02:17,910
Speaker 9: Well, Starshield or Starlink? Well, yeah, I know it's confusing.

4577
04:02:18,190 --> 04:02:23,530
Speaker 9: So Starlink is a commercial product. And so it's regulated

4578
04:02:23,610 --> 04:02:26,270
Speaker 9: and handled as a commercial product. Star Shield is a

4579
04:02:26,310 --> 04:02:30,600
Speaker 9: defense product, a military product. And as I said, I mean,

4580
04:02:30,660 --> 04:02:34,620
Speaker 9: that is something that we have a military, United States

4581
04:02:34,660 --> 04:02:38,080
Speaker 9: military uses. It's not at this moment available to Ukraine.

4582
04:02:38,100 --> 04:02:40,660
Speaker 9: And that's under conversation. It's under discussion right now about

4583
04:02:40,700 --> 04:02:41,340
Speaker 9: how they would want.

4584
04:02:41,240 --> 04:02:41,620
Speaker 6: To use it.

4585
04:02:41,900 --> 04:02:43,280
Speaker 10: No, but did the U.S.

4586
04:02:43,300 --> 04:02:44,860
Speaker 1: Have anything to do with it not working in Ukraine

4587
04:02:44,880 --> 04:02:45,260
Speaker 1: at the moment?

4588
04:02:45,280 --> 04:02:46,300
Speaker 3: Zelensky said it was deliberate.

4589
04:02:46,320 --> 04:02:48,600
Speaker 9: Well, I don't know what Zelensky said. I'm not sure

4590
04:02:48,620 --> 04:02:51,270
Speaker 9: Zelensky knows what he's talking about, but it wasn't deliberate.

4591
04:02:51,290 --> 04:02:53,410
Speaker 9: We had nothing to do with it. The United States,

4592
04:02:53,450 --> 04:02:56,450
Speaker 9: nobody ordered that Starlink speed to be slowed down.

4593
04:02:57,550 --> 04:03:00,630
Speaker 1: So, subsequently, the Wall Street Journal reported that, quote, a

4594
04:03:00,690 --> 04:03:03,610
Speaker 1: person familiar with the situation said Musk talked to multiple

4595
04:03:03,660 --> 04:03:07,680
Speaker 1: senior administration officials, including with Trump, before imposing the new

4596
04:03:07,740 --> 04:03:11,030
Speaker 1: speed cap. which Ukrainian officials said had allowed Russian missiles

4597
04:03:11,050 --> 04:03:14,290
Speaker 1: to evade their defensive. Tensions between the United States and

4598
04:03:14,380 --> 04:03:18,620
Speaker 1: Ukraine are really growing right now. Zelensky has claimed that

4599
04:03:18,660 --> 04:03:21,440
Speaker 1: Trump administration has cut intelligence support, which has resulted in

4600
04:03:21,520 --> 04:03:24,750
Speaker 1: failing to track missile strikes into Ukraine. Trump has claimed

4601
04:03:24,770 --> 04:03:28,340
Speaker 1: the US still shares intelligence, but he went on to say... We've.

4602
04:03:28,240 --> 04:03:29,440
Speaker 10: Given a lot to Ukraine.

4603
04:03:29,980 --> 04:03:30,500
Speaker 1: You know what?

4604
04:03:30,560 --> 04:03:33,970
Speaker 10: We've given a lot to Ukraine. They've given nothing to us.

4605
04:03:34,420 --> 04:03:39,350
Speaker 10: Remember that. We've given hundreds of billions of dollars. I

4606
04:03:39,410 --> 04:03:42,110
Speaker 10: gave the javelins to Ukraine when he knocked out. That

4607
04:03:42,130 --> 04:03:44,610
Speaker 10: was me. Obama gave him pillows.

4608
04:03:45,170 --> 04:03:46,130
Speaker 1: You know the expression?

4609
04:03:46,230 --> 04:03:50,170
Speaker 10: Obama gave him sheets and pillows. Trump gave him the javelins.

4610
04:03:50,210 --> 04:03:52,970
Speaker 10: So don't tell me about Ukraine. We've given a lot

4611
04:03:52,990 --> 04:03:55,320
Speaker 10: to Ukraine. They've given us nothing.

4612
04:03:55,900 --> 04:03:59,460
Speaker 1: So Trump being pretty combative there, this seems to obviously

4613
04:03:59,480 --> 04:04:03,600
Speaker 1: be ignoring the minerals deal. People will remember the very

4614
04:04:03,740 --> 04:04:08,390
Speaker 1: infamous Trump-Vance Zelensky meeting at the White House, which resulted

4615
04:04:08,410 --> 04:04:12,030
Speaker 1: in this minerals deal. Trump has also repeatedly tried to

4616
04:04:12,110 --> 04:04:14,410
Speaker 1: blame Zelensky for diesel prices.

4617
04:04:14,930 --> 04:04:17,070
Speaker 5: I want Zelensky to stop and I want Putin. Now,

4618
04:04:17,110 --> 04:04:21,520
Speaker 5: if you tell me that Zelensky... is again shooting at refineries,

4619
04:04:22,100 --> 04:04:24,960
Speaker 5: all he's doing is making the world oil price higher.

4620
04:04:25,140 --> 04:04:25,900
Speaker 1: And he is doing that.

4621
04:04:26,160 --> 04:04:29,520
Speaker 5: Well, I think that's a disgrace. There's plenty of other targets.

4622
04:04:29,540 --> 04:04:31,100
Speaker 5: They don't have to hit. There are a lot of

4623
04:04:31,160 --> 04:04:34,180
Speaker 5: targets that you can hit. But when you shoot at

4624
04:04:34,240 --> 04:04:37,700
Speaker 5: diesel refineries where you make diesel oil, and we need that,

4625
04:04:38,200 --> 04:04:41,510
Speaker 5: and the world needs that, then he's not doing a

4626
04:04:41,550 --> 04:04:42,630
Speaker 5: good service for the world.

4627
04:04:43,110 --> 04:04:45,710
Speaker 1: Failure of the convention in the English language to use

4628
04:04:45,810 --> 04:04:49,330
Speaker 1: one's voice going up to indicate a question. Which is great.

4629
04:04:49,830 --> 04:04:53,620
Speaker 1: Of course, the far bigger issue is that Trump has

4630
04:04:53,640 --> 04:04:56,300
Speaker 1: started a war with Iran, right? Which is the major issue.

4631
04:04:56,340 --> 04:04:56,580
Speaker 8: Yeah.

4632
04:04:56,600 --> 04:05:00,050
Speaker 1: That's the actual reason it's a diesel shortage. I want

4633
04:05:00,090 --> 04:05:02,270
Speaker 1: to play this clip, though, because he really went in

4634
04:05:02,330 --> 04:05:03,490
Speaker 1: on Zelensky on Monday.

4635
04:05:03,950 --> 04:05:07,050
Speaker 10: I think it's time for somebody else to negotiate on

4636
04:05:07,090 --> 04:05:11,470
Speaker 10: behalf of Ukraine. Because what's happened? Very little land has moved,

4637
04:05:11,910 --> 04:05:15,660
Speaker 10: but a million people, a tremendous number of people are dead.

4638
04:05:16,080 --> 04:05:19,620
Speaker 10: They're losing their male population. Ukraine could have had this

4639
04:05:19,680 --> 04:05:21,940
Speaker 10: thing settled a long time ago. If he would have

4640
04:05:21,960 --> 04:05:25,140
Speaker 10: listened to me, and you remember the Oval Office, he

4641
04:05:25,180 --> 04:05:28,060
Speaker 10: would have had this settled a long time ago. Maybe

4642
04:05:28,120 --> 04:05:31,860
Speaker 10: it's time for Zelensky to get somebody else to negotiate.

4643
04:05:32,980 --> 04:05:33,100
Speaker 6: So.

4644
04:05:34,400 --> 04:05:39,480
Speaker 1: It seems that this is Trump's move going into the midterm, right?

4645
04:05:39,500 --> 04:05:42,600
Speaker 1: It's that among other things that he's tried to do

4646
04:05:42,700 --> 04:05:47,210
Speaker 1: to draw attention from what's happening to fuel prices because

4647
04:05:47,290 --> 04:05:51,030
Speaker 1: of his war in Iran, he's now trying to blame Zelensky.

4648
04:05:51,530 --> 04:05:53,790
Speaker 1: Just to wrap up on Starlink, Starlink is a reality

4649
04:05:54,110 --> 04:05:57,130
Speaker 1: of war everywhere today. It's used in Myanmar and in

4650
04:05:57,230 --> 04:05:59,950
Speaker 1: Ukraine and all over the world. And this has the

4651
04:06:00,030 --> 04:06:04,590
Speaker 1: really unfortunate effect of making so many people directly reliant

4652
04:06:04,670 --> 04:06:09,770
Speaker 1: on Elon Musk specifically. It's a massive structural problem in

4653
04:06:10,560 --> 04:06:14,280
Speaker 1: conflict everywhere today that Elon Musk, especially in cases where

4654
04:06:14,300 --> 04:06:17,440
Speaker 1: there's not Starshield, where it's just Starlink, the commercial product,

4655
04:06:18,090 --> 04:06:21,270
Speaker 1: Elon Musk has the ability to turn off the connection

4656
04:06:21,410 --> 04:06:24,190
Speaker 1: to the outside world of so many places and movements.

4657
04:06:24,830 --> 04:06:27,350
Speaker 1: I'd be naive if I said I expected this to

4658
04:06:27,370 --> 04:06:29,710
Speaker 1: be the last time we saw that. But yep, that's

4659
04:06:29,730 --> 04:06:31,800
Speaker 1: what I got on Conflict Today.

4660
04:06:33,340 --> 04:06:36,600
Speaker 6: For our last story, let's return to this show's namesake

4661
04:06:36,660 --> 04:06:41,240
Speaker 6: and discuss a new executive order. On Monday, First Lady

4662
04:06:41,260 --> 04:06:44,420
Speaker 6: Melania Trump made a rare public appearance with her husband,

4663
04:06:45,130 --> 04:06:48,660
Speaker 6: to announce the creation of a new women's health division

4664
04:06:49,200 --> 04:06:53,660
Speaker 6: within the NIH, the National Institutes of Health. According to

4665
04:06:53,680 --> 04:06:56,340
Speaker 6: Health and Human Services, Trump created this new division via

4666
04:06:56,420 --> 04:07:17,170
Speaker 6: executive order, And this order also established a, quote, White

4667
04:07:17,230 --> 04:07:22,770
Speaker 6: House Women's Health Task Force, which, according to Trump, will, quote,

4668
04:07:23,090 --> 04:07:27,030
Speaker 6: mobilize the entire federal government to coordinate action focused on

4669
04:07:27,110 --> 04:07:31,620
Speaker 6: improving women's health. Here is the president announcing who will

4670
04:07:31,740 --> 04:07:33,980
Speaker 6: run the Women's Health Task Force.

4671
04:07:34,800 --> 04:07:37,860
Speaker 12: And this task force will be led by Secretary of

4672
04:07:37,920 --> 04:07:39,830
Speaker 12: Health and Human Services, Robert F.

4673
04:07:39,860 --> 04:07:40,280
Speaker 6: Kennedy.

4674
04:07:40,300 --> 04:07:40,980
Speaker 1: That's a big one.

4675
04:07:41,970 --> 04:07:45,250
Speaker 12: And he's been fantastic, I have to tell you. He's

4676
04:07:45,270 --> 04:07:48,790
Speaker 12: a little different. We understand that, don't we? Cheryl, do

4677
04:07:48,830 --> 04:07:52,320
Speaker 12: we understand? He is a little different. But that's what

4678
04:07:52,380 --> 04:07:55,730
Speaker 12: makes him good, I think. I'll let you know about it.

4679
04:07:57,140 --> 04:07:58,200
Speaker 12: That's what makes him good.

4680
04:07:59,960 --> 04:08:00,340
Speaker 1: I think.

4681
04:08:01,120 --> 04:08:02,330
Speaker 6: I'll let you know about it.

4682
04:08:03,230 --> 04:08:07,970
Speaker 1: Very reassuring. Very reassuring stuff. Ringing endorsement for the dude

4683
04:08:08,050 --> 04:08:09,530
Speaker 1: in charge of the women's health program.

4684
04:08:10,410 --> 04:08:12,970
Speaker 6: Now, this task force will also be co-chaired by Chief

4685
04:08:12,990 --> 04:08:16,950
Speaker 6: of Staff Susie Willis, and the task force will also

4686
04:08:17,090 --> 04:08:21,790
Speaker 6: include Pete Hegseth, among other cabinet members, though Hegseth is

4687
04:08:21,870 --> 04:08:26,450
Speaker 6: the first one mentioned in the order. So, real star-studded

4688
04:08:26,510 --> 04:08:28,310
Speaker 6: cast there in charge of women's health.

4689
04:08:28,770 --> 04:08:29,240
Speaker 7: Jesus.

4690
04:08:29,850 --> 04:08:30,580
Speaker 1: Great stuff.

4691
04:08:31,550 --> 04:08:35,110
Speaker 6: I'll read from the executive order, quote, My administration is

4692
04:08:35,190 --> 04:08:39,420
Speaker 6: committed to ensuring that American women are receiving the best

4693
04:08:39,620 --> 04:08:44,500
Speaker 6: scientifically supported medical advice in the world, unquote. Now, the

4694
04:08:44,620 --> 04:08:47,900
Speaker 6: NIH already has an Office of Research on Women's Health

4695
04:08:48,000 --> 04:08:51,570
Speaker 6: and has since the 90s, so it's unclear how the

4696
04:08:51,610 --> 04:08:55,690
Speaker 6: work of this division will differ from the office. To

4697
04:08:55,770 --> 04:09:01,520
Speaker 6: quote the New York Times, quote, Alina Salganikov, The co-chairwoman

4698
04:09:01,640 --> 04:09:04,440
Speaker 6: of the committee that produced the 2024 National Academy of

4699
04:09:04,480 --> 04:09:09,260
Speaker 6: Medicine report on quote, ending unequal treatment, questioned how the

4700
04:09:09,310 --> 04:09:12,930
Speaker 6: new division would set research priorities and wondered whether it

4701
04:09:12,950 --> 04:09:15,310
Speaker 6: would end up focusing on the interests of the Make

4702
04:09:15,370 --> 04:09:20,390
Speaker 6: America Healthy Again movement, like non-hormonal approaches to contraception and

4703
04:09:20,450 --> 04:09:24,780
Speaker 6: fertility awareness, for example. Quote, If you have a fixed

4704
04:09:24,840 --> 04:09:27,200
Speaker 6: amount of money and you're going to invest in new research,

4705
04:09:27,660 --> 04:09:30,360
Speaker 6: what are the trade-offs? What are you not funding in

4706
04:09:30,400 --> 04:09:31,760
Speaker 6: order to fund these new studies?

4707
04:09:32,320 --> 04:09:32,980
Speaker 1: Said Ms.

4708
04:09:33,080 --> 04:09:36,600
Speaker 6: Selganikoff, who now directs the Women's Health Policy Program at

4709
04:09:36,620 --> 04:09:42,980
Speaker 6: the non-profit health research organization KFF. Unquote. The questionable priorities

4710
04:09:43,040 --> 04:09:47,170
Speaker 6: of this division is not the only issue. Trump's new

4711
04:09:47,250 --> 04:09:51,730
Speaker 6: order does not secure or promise any research funding. And

4712
04:09:51,770 --> 04:09:58,140
Speaker 6: just last month, Trump cut $ 810 million from HHS. This

4713
04:09:58,170 --> 04:10:02,340
Speaker 6: was funding that was already pre-approved by Congress. During the

4714
04:10:02,380 --> 04:10:06,400
Speaker 6: wave of Doge cuts last year, HHS slashed funding for

4715
04:10:06,440 --> 04:10:10,350
Speaker 6: the Women's Health Initiative, a decades-long ongoing study focused on

4716
04:10:10,370 --> 04:10:13,830
Speaker 6: women's health, aging, menopause, and the effects of hormone therapy.

4717
04:10:14,510 --> 04:10:18,470
Speaker 6: After public pushback, funds for the initiative were reinstated, but

4718
04:10:18,690 --> 04:10:22,550
Speaker 6: the massive cuts to the NIH... still have negatively impacted

4719
04:10:22,590 --> 04:10:26,270
Speaker 6: research into women's health. Trump has cut or froze.

4720
04:10:26,070 --> 04:10:28,110
Speaker 1: Over $ 3.

4721
04:10:26,870 --> 04:10:31,550
Speaker 6: Billion in previously approved research grants, $ 2. 3 billion of which

4722
04:10:31,810 --> 04:10:36,870
Speaker 6: from the NIH, and Trump's 2026 budget proposal sought to

4723
04:10:36,950 --> 04:10:41,970
Speaker 6: slash the NIH budget by 41%, a cut of almost

4724
04:10:41,970 --> 04:10:48,170
Speaker 6: $ 20 billion. Since Trump took office, NIH has been rewarding

4725
04:10:48,240 --> 04:10:53,690
Speaker 6: grants much, much more slowly. with HHS, the Office of

4726
04:10:53,750 --> 04:10:58,160
Speaker 6: Management and Budget, or the White House flagging certain awards

4727
04:10:58,250 --> 04:11:02,640
Speaker 6: as quote, not acceptable, according to former NIH director Jennifer

4728
04:11:02,680 --> 04:11:07,720
Speaker 6: Toyer in an interview with NPR. Toyer explained how this

4729
04:11:07,820 --> 04:11:11,920
Speaker 6: interference from the White House has continued even after Doge quote,

4730
04:11:12,160 --> 04:11:15,550
Speaker 6: went away, but the other systems had been put in

4731
04:11:15,610 --> 04:11:19,000
Speaker 6: place to do the same function, unquote. I think this

4732
04:11:19,020 --> 04:11:20,760
Speaker 6: is something that doesn't get reported on enough, even though

4733
04:11:20,860 --> 04:11:25,180
Speaker 6: Doge doesn't exist in name the same way it did

4734
04:11:25,220 --> 04:11:28,300
Speaker 6: in the early months of the Trump administration. A lot

4735
04:11:28,320 --> 04:11:31,180
Speaker 6: of those same sorts of policies are being done by

4736
04:11:31,620 --> 04:11:35,530
Speaker 6: other institutions, other departments, other agencies, especially the Office of

4737
04:11:35,570 --> 04:11:36,290
Speaker 6: Management and Budget.

4738
04:11:38,210 --> 04:11:41,150
Speaker 1: They've learned this, right? It's the same with, we don't

4739
04:11:41,190 --> 04:11:44,390
Speaker 1: have Greg Bovino anymore, but we still have massive ICE detentions.

4740
04:11:44,590 --> 04:11:47,840
Speaker 1: They've learned you can't do it quite as loud and proud.

4741
04:11:48,110 --> 04:11:51,270
Speaker 6: Yeah, they can shut down the most sort of obviously

4742
04:11:51,350 --> 04:11:56,300
Speaker 6: obstructive and disagreeable parts while still doing the same stuff,

4743
04:11:56,360 --> 04:11:57,100
Speaker 6: just quieter.

4744
04:11:57,180 --> 04:11:57,380
Speaker 5: Yeah.

4745
04:11:58,100 --> 04:12:00,980
Speaker 6: According to the Washington Post, in fiscal year 2025, there

4746
04:12:01,020 --> 04:12:05,240
Speaker 6: was a 31% drop in the number of NIH-funded projects

4747
04:12:05,320 --> 04:12:07,260
Speaker 6: that included the word woman.

4748
04:12:07,980 --> 04:12:08,160
Speaker 1: Oof.

4749
04:12:08,980 --> 04:12:12,100
Speaker 6: An analysis by NPR found that between fiscal year 2024

4750
04:12:12,100 --> 04:12:18,080
Speaker 6: and 2025, Research areas that lost NIH funding included women's health,

4751
04:12:18,400 --> 04:12:20,620
Speaker 6: which was down almost $ 300 million.

4752
04:12:20,640 --> 04:12:21,000
Speaker 1: Jesus.

4753
04:12:22,520 --> 04:12:27,700
Speaker 6: Cervical cancer vaccine research, down $ 6 million. Stem cell research

4754
04:12:27,780 --> 04:12:31,929
Speaker 6: on umbilical cord, blood, and the placenta, down $ 6 million.

4755
04:12:32,430 --> 04:12:36,490
Speaker 6: And quote, violence against women research, which was down $ 2 million.

4756
04:12:37,110 --> 04:12:40,190
Speaker 6: Not to mention the other sort of health disparity cuts

4757
04:12:40,870 --> 04:12:46,310
Speaker 6: in regards to minority populations. Last July, HHS imposed new

4758
04:12:46,350 --> 04:12:49,900
Speaker 6: conditions on Title X funding to align the program with

4759
04:12:50,060 --> 04:12:54,040
Speaker 6: conservative values. Title X is the only federal grant program

4760
04:12:54,080 --> 04:12:58,480
Speaker 6: dedicated specifically to family planning, providing birth control, STI testing,

4761
04:12:59,060 --> 04:13:03,000
Speaker 6: and related preventative health services. According to New York Attorney

4762
04:13:03,020 --> 04:13:06,090
Speaker 6: General Letitia James, who led a coalition of 22 other

4763
04:13:06,150 --> 04:13:10,170
Speaker 6: states in suing to block the changes, to qualify for

4764
04:13:10,210 --> 04:13:13,460
Speaker 6: Title X funding under Trump, applicants would be required to

4765
04:13:13,500 --> 04:13:17,110
Speaker 6: align their programs, quote, with a sweeping set of political

4766
04:13:17,170 --> 04:13:21,270
Speaker 6: priorities as a condition of receiving or keeping federal funds.

4767
04:13:22,110 --> 04:13:27,190
Speaker 6: The priorities include eliminating diversity, equity, and inclusion practices, excluding

4768
04:13:27,230 --> 04:13:31,390
Speaker 6: and stigmatizing transgender people, discouraging the use of contraception in

4769
04:13:31,490 --> 04:13:36,100
Speaker 6: favor of natural family planning, and requiring clinics to counsel

4770
04:13:36,220 --> 04:13:39,760
Speaker 6: all patients toward marriage and parenthood, unquote.

4771
04:13:40,140 --> 04:13:45,110
Speaker 1: Jesus Christ. insane stuff yeah yeah this is like uh

4772
04:13:45,590 --> 04:13:47,790
Speaker 1: we've spoken on this show before about romania you know

4773
04:13:47,810 --> 04:13:51,560
Speaker 1: and their natalist policies like uh i don't know that

4774
04:13:51,580 --> 04:13:52,800
Speaker 1: shit scares me a lot.

4775
04:13:53,020 --> 04:13:57,720
Speaker 6: Yeah so the idea of hhs robert f kennedy jr

4776
04:13:58,120 --> 04:14:01,400
Speaker 6: and friends being put in charge of a new women's

4777
04:14:01,460 --> 04:14:05,550
Speaker 6: health initiative and task force not very reassuring to say

4778
04:14:05,590 --> 04:14:09,180
Speaker 6: the least no Trump's executive order also revokes a Biden

4779
04:14:09,280 --> 04:14:13,500
Speaker 6: memorandum and an executive order from 2024 to quote, advance

4780
04:14:13,560 --> 04:14:17,440
Speaker 6: women's health research and innovation. The memo established the first

4781
04:14:17,580 --> 04:14:21,620
Speaker 6: ever White House initiative on women's health research. And following

4782
04:14:21,670 --> 04:14:25,950
Speaker 6: Biden's executive order, the NIH dedicated $ 200 million to close

4783
04:14:25,990 --> 04:14:30,130
Speaker 6: the women's research gap. Biden then requested $ 12 billion from Congress,

4784
04:14:30,730 --> 04:14:34,490
Speaker 6: and ultimately the administration invested about $ 1 billion into women's

4785
04:14:34,510 --> 04:14:38,040
Speaker 6: health research in just 10 months. So, the sort of

4786
04:14:38,360 --> 04:14:41,540
Speaker 6: novel aspects of this announcement from Trump is just cribbing

4787
04:14:41,600 --> 04:14:45,220
Speaker 6: something Biden already tried to do and actually provided funding for,

4788
04:14:45,900 --> 04:14:49,080
Speaker 6: while Trump's version has no funding, is in the wake

4789
04:14:49,140 --> 04:14:52,470
Speaker 6: of hundreds of millions of dollars in cuts to funding

4790
04:14:52,570 --> 04:14:56,400
Speaker 6: for women's research, and is in control of Robert F.

4791
04:14:56,410 --> 04:14:57,110
Speaker 1: Kennedy Jr.

4792
04:14:57,690 --> 04:14:59,170
Speaker 6: So, not great, to.

4793
04:14:59,130 --> 04:15:01,690
Speaker 1: Say the least. Yeah, really, really bad.

4794
04:15:02,090 --> 04:15:03,590
Speaker 2: It's... Yeah.

4795
04:15:05,570 --> 04:15:08,230
Speaker 6: Other reporting from the Times has noted how this announcement

4796
04:15:08,310 --> 04:15:11,610
Speaker 6: is just weeks away from the midterms and Trump is

4797
04:15:11,750 --> 04:15:16,050
Speaker 6: polling at like 30% among women. And this could be

4798
04:15:16,110 --> 04:15:19,820
Speaker 6: some sort of ploy to get some more support for

4799
04:15:19,840 --> 04:15:22,780
Speaker 6: the administration going into the midterms. I don't know if

4800
04:15:22,820 --> 04:15:25,900
Speaker 6: that's part of the intent, but the timing has been highlighted.

4801
04:15:26,300 --> 04:15:29,060
Speaker 1: Great stuff. It seems such a weird one to go

4802
04:15:29,120 --> 04:15:31,530
Speaker 1: for before the midterms because you're giving a massive middle

4803
04:15:31,550 --> 04:15:35,550
Speaker 1: finger to half the population. Slightly more than half. But

4804
04:15:35,650 --> 04:15:39,640
Speaker 1: who am I? Previously, this has been a successful tactic

4805
04:15:39,660 --> 04:15:41,720
Speaker 1: for them. Yeah.

4806
04:15:42,900 --> 04:15:46,730
Speaker 6: Well, that does it for us, I believe. Here at

4807
04:15:46,790 --> 04:15:47,650
Speaker 6: It Could Happen Here.

4808
04:15:48,390 --> 04:15:52,150
Speaker 1: Sweet. Would you like... to email us? You can do so.

4809
04:15:52,230 --> 04:15:57,040
Speaker 1: It's coolzontips at proton.me. Still, occasionally a marketing company email

4810
04:15:57,080 --> 04:16:00,740
Speaker 1: will sneak through and earn a ban for its entire

4811
04:16:00,780 --> 04:16:02,179
Speaker 1: domain name. Oh, I did.

4812
04:16:02,280 --> 04:16:05,640
Speaker 6: I did actually specifically request marketing companies to send emails

4813
04:16:05,660 --> 04:16:07,440
Speaker 6: to that address last week when you were out, James.

4814
04:16:07,480 --> 04:16:08,080
Speaker 1: Fantastic.

4815
04:16:08,280 --> 04:16:08,480
Speaker 7: So.

4816
04:16:09,110 --> 04:16:12,310
Speaker 1: That might be my bad. I tried to stop. Fantastic.

4817
04:16:12,370 --> 04:16:13,110
Speaker 1: I tried to stop him.

4818
04:16:13,130 --> 04:16:13,230
Speaker 6: Great.

4819
04:16:13,410 --> 04:16:16,150
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you. I look forward to hearing more about

4820
04:16:16,190 --> 04:16:19,350
Speaker 1: how your fucking book about investing is going to make

4821
04:16:19,380 --> 04:16:21,740
Speaker 1: you a great fucking guest on our podcast and that

4822
04:16:21,750 --> 04:16:24,360
Speaker 1: you haven't sent this to everyone else who has a podcast.

4823
04:16:24,800 --> 04:16:25,060
Speaker 7: Great.

4824
04:16:25,760 --> 04:16:28,260
Speaker 2: Let's just clip out James saying I look forward to

4825
04:16:28,280 --> 04:16:31,380
Speaker 2: hearing more and then throw that in every future episode

4826
04:16:31,480 --> 04:16:33,759
Speaker 2: along with a link to the email.

4827
04:16:33,880 --> 04:16:34,500
Speaker 6: Oh, God.

4828
04:16:35,440 --> 04:16:36,740
Speaker 13: Put a trans girl on your couch.

4829
04:16:37,000 --> 04:16:38,180
Speaker 6: We reported the news.

4830
04:16:42,420 --> 04:16:43,340
Speaker 1: Be reported the news.

4831
04:16:48,930 --> 04:16:52,050
Speaker 2: Hey, we'll be back Monday with more episodes every week

4832
04:16:52,110 --> 04:16:53,950
Speaker 2: from now until the heat death of the universe.

4833
04:16:54,830 --> 04:16:57,270
Speaker 14: It Could Happen Here is a production of Cool Zone Media.

4834
04:16:57,470 --> 04:17:01,850
Speaker 14: For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com,

4835
04:17:02,270 --> 04:17:05,090
Speaker 14: or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

4836
04:17:05,430 --> 04:17:08,250
Speaker 14: or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can now find

4837
04:17:08,290 --> 04:17:11,210
Speaker 14: sources for It Could Happen Here listed directly in episode descriptions.

4838
04:17:11,700 --> 04:17:12,410
Speaker 4: Thanks for listening.