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Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Law with June Brusso from Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 2: I'm extremely proud of my son Hunter. He has overcome

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Speaker 2: an addiction. He is He's one of the brightest, most

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Speaker 2: decent men I know, and I am satisfied that I'm

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Speaker 2: not gonna do anything. I said, I advide by the

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Speaker 2: jury decision, and I will do that, and I will.

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Speaker 3: Not pardon him.

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Speaker 1: President Joe Biden said it over and over again he

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Speaker 1: would not pardon his son Hunter for felony, gun and

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Speaker 1: tax convictions, and White House Press Secretary Kareem Jean Pierre

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Speaker 1: confirmed it over and over again. From a presidential perspective,

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Speaker 1: Is there any possibility that the president would end up

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Speaker 1: pardoning his son. No, I just said no.

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Speaker 4: I just answered, you go ahead.

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Speaker 3: Why doesn't President five just pardon him?

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Speaker 4: President, I've been very clear, the President's not going to work.

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Speaker 5: It's still a no. It's still an e gold oois

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Speaker 5: you know, it's still a no.

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Speaker 2: It will be a no.

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Speaker 3: It is a no.

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Speaker 4: And I don't have anything else to add.

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Speaker 5: Will he pardon his son? No?

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Speaker 4: The President. I could speak for the President and he

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Speaker 4: said he would not pardon his son. And I'm just

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Speaker 4: going to leave.

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Speaker 1: It there, But then on Sunday, Biden did a one

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Speaker 1: eighty and gave his son Hunter a sweeping, unconditional pardon,

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Speaker 1: not just for the gun in tax convictions, but also

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Speaker 1: for any federal crime he may have committed in the

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Speaker 1: past decade. A jury in Delaware convicted Hunter Biden of

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Speaker 1: three felonies in June for purchasing a gun in twenty

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Speaker 1: eighteen when he lied on a federal form by claiming

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Speaker 1: he was not illegally using or addicted to drugs. He'd

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Speaker 1: been set to stand trial in September in a California

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Speaker 1: case accusing him of failing to pay at least one

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Speaker 1: point four million dollars in taxes, but he agreed to

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Speaker 1: plead guilty to misdemeanor and felony charges before trial. He

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Speaker 1: was supposed to be sentenced this month in the two

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Speaker 1: federal cases until his father pardoned him. President Biden justified

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Speaker 1: his breaking his pledge by saying that raw politics infected

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Speaker 1: the process and led to a miscarriage of justice. Joining

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Speaker 1: me is constitutional law scholar Philip Bobbitt, a professor at

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Speaker 1: Columbia Law School. This pardon not only covers the felony

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Speaker 1: tax and gun charges. It also protects Hunter Biden from

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Speaker 1: ever facing federal charges over any crimes he could possibly

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Speaker 1: have committed over the past decade. How broad is that?

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Speaker 3: That's quite broad. The only precedent that comes to mind

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Speaker 3: is the Ford pardon of President Nixon, that is quite

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Speaker 3: his all encompassing as status. That's unusually broad.

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Speaker 1: Obviously, this decade long timeline was not randomly chosen. It

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Speaker 1: covers Hunter Biden's entire tenure on the board of Barisma

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Speaker 1: and his other questionable overseas business ventures. So it seems

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Speaker 1: designed to stop any future prosecutions of Hunter Biden for

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Speaker 1: his overseas dealings.

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Speaker 3: That makes sense. My take on this is that it's

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Speaker 3: really a kind of a spiraling down of our constitutional culture,

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Speaker 3: and that the reason why it's so broad is because

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Speaker 3: the president fears a series of improper prosecutions by the

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Speaker 3: new administration.

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Speaker 1: Explain what you mean by spiraling down?

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Speaker 3: Well, I'm sure the president was advised that the way

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Speaker 3: to do this. I'm a father, I'm a part of

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Speaker 3: the son. Believe me, I deeply empathize with the President's predicament.

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Speaker 3: But I imagine he was advised that the way to do

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Speaker 3: that was to wait until the settencing dates. I think

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Speaker 3: the gun charges or December the twelfth in Delaware. The

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Speaker 3: tax charges are December the sixteenth in California, still well

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Speaker 3: within his presidency, and depending on how severe the sensors were,

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Speaker 3: they might well have been probationary or suspended or milesent.

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Speaker 3: But depending on what they were like, the president could

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Speaker 3: then commute them to a greater or lesser degree. That's

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Speaker 3: still problematic in many respects. I understand people who would

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Speaker 3: have that reaction, but it's not as dramatic or as

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Speaker 3: troubling as the blanket partners you described. And since I'm

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Speaker 3: sure the president got excellent legal advice on this, why

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Speaker 3: did he do this? And I think the only thing

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Speaker 3: that can account for it is his anxiety that the

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Speaker 3: new administration is going to go after his family. As

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Speaker 3: they said many times in the campaign, they would this

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Speaker 3: is spiraling down because it's sort of morning that once said,

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Speaker 3: defining deviancy down. It is deviant for the president to

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Speaker 3: try to use law enforcement in the federal law enforcement

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Speaker 3: agencies to go after his predecessors. I can't think of

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Speaker 3: any president until Trump, and an interesting exchange occurred in

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Speaker 3: Trump versus the United States the President's community case, when

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Speaker 3: Justice Alito said that they wanted to give presumptive immunity

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Speaker 3: because he was concerned about a future president persecuting not

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Speaker 3: for this prosecuting one of his predecessors, and the press

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Speaker 3: automatically assumed this was something in favor of Trump. I

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Speaker 3: didn't hear it that way at all. It sounded to

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Speaker 3: me as though the Justice was talking about Trump being

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Speaker 3: elected and turning on Biden and his family. And I

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Speaker 3: don't think that was really an unrealistic concern. And so

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Speaker 3: one spiral of unprecedented action that gets another in defense,

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Speaker 3: and it just circles downward.

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Speaker 1: So President Biden said things like, no reasonable person who

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Speaker 1: looks at the facts of Hunter's cases can reach any

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Speaker 1: other conclusion than he was singled out only because he's

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Speaker 1: my son, and that's wrong. But that doesn't answer for

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Speaker 1: the broadness of the pardon.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think that's right, But I think that the

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Speaker 3: partner is about future prosecutions, and I think it's because

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Speaker 3: the president is extremely concerned about all the threats that

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Speaker 3: President Trump has made against Hunter Biden, against the Biden family.

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Speaker 3: And I don't think that's unreasonable. I don't think that's pronoidd.

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Speaker 1: Even some Democrats are criticizing the Hunter Biden pardon. Senator

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Speaker 1: Michael Bennett of Colorado said the President put personal interest

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Speaker 1: ahead of duty and that this decision further erodes American's fate.

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Speaker 4: That the justice system is fair and equal for all.

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Speaker 1: Colorado Governor Jared Poulis said it was a bad precedent

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Speaker 1: that could be abused by later presidents and will sadly

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Speaker 1: tarnish Biden's reputation.

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Speaker 3: I'm afraid that that's correct, and that's why I say

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Speaker 3: it's spiraling down. It makes the office of the presidency

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Speaker 3: and the constitution of strengths in the presidency degraded. But

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Speaker 3: it doesn't exist in a vacuum. It hasn't come out

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Speaker 3: of nowhere. This isn't a president singling out his son

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Speaker 3: and giving him a blanket pardon because he thinks that

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Speaker 3: the poor boy is going to be prosecuted and persecuted

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Speaker 3: the rest of his life. I think it is in

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Speaker 3: a direct response to the multiple threats and made by

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Speaker 3: President Trump about using the law enforcement agencies in the

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Speaker 3: federal government to go after the Biden family. And I

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Speaker 3: think that one wrong but gets another.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there's the precedent of Richard Nixon. Do you

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Speaker 1: think this is a precedent that will lead other presidents

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Speaker 1: to give blanket pardons?

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Speaker 3: Could very well. A lot of the pardons in the

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Speaker 3: last couple of years, as few years have been a

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Speaker 3: troubling Sometimes it looked as though a pardons were being

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Speaker 3: dangled before witnesses keep them from giving testimony. I believe

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Speaker 3: Michael Cohen testified to that effect. So pardons have come

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Speaker 3: under some negative scrutiny lately anyway, And sure, once is

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Speaker 3: on the books, it sits there like a gun on

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Speaker 3: the dinner table, waiting to be used.

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Speaker 1: Only two other presidents have pardoned family members. President Bill

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Speaker 1: Clinton pardoned his brother Roger, who had pleaded guilty to

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Speaker 1: selling cocaine to an undercover police officer and spent a

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Speaker 1: year in prison. And President Trump pardoned his son in law,

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Speaker 1: Jared Kushner's father, Charles Kushner, who had pleaded guilty to

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Speaker 1: eighteen counts of falsifying tax returns, retaliating against a witness,

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Speaker 1: and making false statements about campaign contributions to the Federal

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Speaker 1: Election Commission. And over the weekend, Trump announced plans to

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Speaker 1: nominate Charles Kushner to be the US envoy to France.

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Speaker 1: I'm wondering if there are so few of these pardons

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Speaker 1: of family members because presidents are hesitant to do that,

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Speaker 1: or because family members just don't get into trouble like this.

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Speaker 3: The culture may be changing, but I think the families

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Speaker 3: of politicians, at least in my lifetime my experience, are

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Speaker 3: really coached quite rigorously. Don't do this, don't do that,

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Speaker 3: don't take that job. It look as though you're being favorite.

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Speaker 3: Don't write that article, it look as though you're in

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Speaker 3: my mouth speaks that families are quite aware of the

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Speaker 3: negative publicity their children can give them them, and they

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Speaker 3: are very strict with them. Now, of course they're outliers

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Speaker 3: and they're kids that get out of control, but I

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Speaker 3: think generally recently the year when I was growing up,

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Speaker 3: the families are very very circumspect.

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Speaker 1: The pardon power, would you say, it's the it's the

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Speaker 1: one unchecked power the president.

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Speaker 3: Has, sort of. It's not a power that is reviewable

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Speaker 3: by hoards, and it's not a power that can be

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Speaker 3: modified by the Congress. However, it's not entirely unchecked. For example,

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Speaker 3: if you were to take a bribe, or if you

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Speaker 3: were to solicit a bribe, do this for me, and

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Speaker 3: I will pardon. With soliciting the bribe, I think that

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Speaker 3: you could still be prosecuted. The pardon might stand, although

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Speaker 3: that's not entirely certain, but I think the pardon probably

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Speaker 3: would stand, but the underlying crime would still be prosecuted.

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Speaker 3: That's because there's a difference between draining a part and

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Speaker 3: taking a bribe.

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Speaker 1: It seems like Biden, in his explanation for the pardon,

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Speaker 1: is sort of adopting the Trump view of the justice

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Speaker 1: system being unfair and targeting his son unfairly.

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Speaker 3: Maybe I'm not sure I agree with you, or perhaps

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Speaker 3: I would put a little more finely grained way. I

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Speaker 3: thought that Trump's view was the justice system was systematically

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Speaker 3: unfair towards a whole class of peace people Magavella J

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Speaker 3: six rioters that Trump's supporters generally, or Donald Trump in particular,

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Speaker 3: and that was to silence them politically. I think what

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Speaker 3: the President Biden was saying was that Hunter Biden would

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Speaker 3: never have been prosecuted at all for these pretty minor offenses.

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Speaker 3: I'm sort of a gun offensive to the chart had

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Speaker 3: he not been the president's son. That's not just because

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Speaker 3: or even mainly because the justice departments have to get

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Speaker 3: the Biden family. It's because the children of probably people

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Speaker 3: of celebrities, of people in high office are often held

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Speaker 3: to the higher standard.

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Speaker 1: What a lot of people also seem to be taking

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Speaker 1: issue with is that Biden said again and again, even

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Speaker 1: after Trump's reelection, that he wasn't going to pardon his son.

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Speaker 4: So why do you know a one to eighty and

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Speaker 4: do it.

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Speaker 3: Well, that's what we're given free will for. We're allowed

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Speaker 3: to change our minds. I think he was a mistake,

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Speaker 3: but I think it was an understandable mistake, not an

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Speaker 3: irrational mistake. And light of the threats made against the

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Speaker 3: Biden family by Donald Trump and his team, and I

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Speaker 3: think that perhaps the president thought, is vice president win

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Speaker 3: the elections, so he would have to worry about those threats.

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Speaker 3: Perhaps he thought that once Trump won the election, Trump

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Speaker 3: would moderate his mitriol and his threats. But I can

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Speaker 3: see how at some point you say, wait a minute,

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Speaker 3: he's been elected. He's going to follow through with these threats.

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Speaker 3: That's the world I didn't really anticipate, and I'm going

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Speaker 3: to have to react to it.

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Speaker 1: Have presidents used the pardon power more in recent years

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Speaker 1: than presidents in the past did.

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Speaker 3: Yes and no. It's been used more frequently for individual pardons.

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Speaker 3: But after the Whiskey Rebellion and George Washington presidency, after

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Speaker 3: the Civil War, even after the movement of or protesters

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Speaker 3: in the Vietnam era to Canada, presidents would pardon the

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Speaker 3: whole classic of people. So the numbers were greater, but

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Speaker 3: the incidents were fewer, if you see what I mean,

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Speaker 3: and I think that if you go back to the

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Speaker 3: Federi's papers, to the history of the drafting of the Constitution,

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Speaker 3: this idea of ameliorating deep social cleavages was one of,

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Speaker 3: not the only, that was one of the most important

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Speaker 3: purposes behind the pardon power, to try to give amnesties,

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Speaker 3: to take groups that had been alienated and admittedly committed

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Speaker 3: crimes against the state, and somehow reconcile them back to

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Speaker 3: the society.

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Speaker 1: A group of Democratic lawmakers has called on President Biden

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Speaker 1: to use the pardon power in his remaining time to

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Speaker 1: correct injustices and to pardon, for example, all the people

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Speaker 1: who are on federal death row. Knowing that the Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump in his first term restarted federal executions which had

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Speaker 1: been dormant, do you think that's a good idea, more

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Speaker 1: in line with what the pardon power is about.

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Speaker 3: I don't think that's inconsistent with a pardon power. I

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Speaker 3: think that obviously it's important, and it's important morally and politically.

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Speaker 3: But you're talking about a very small number of people.

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Speaker 3: Most people on death row are in state prisons.

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Speaker 1: Do you see an area where he might issue pardons

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Speaker 1: to sort of make a mark before he leaves?

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Speaker 3: Oh? No, I'd say he's done that.

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Speaker 1: I don't think anyone can dispute that. Thanks so much

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Speaker 1: for being on the show. That's Professor Phillip Bobbitt of

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Speaker 1: Columbia Law School turning out to Legal news. In the

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Speaker 1: music industry, how.

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Speaker 4: Do life goes on? Babies?

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Speaker 3: Keep a horn on?

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Speaker 5: Met me?

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Speaker 1: That's hip hop superstar Kendrick Lamar's wildly popular, not like

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Speaker 1: us Somars track. This is another hip hop superstar, Drake

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Speaker 1: Play Drake, I, Hey you like them young? You better?

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Speaker 5: I have a go to sale black one.

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Speaker 1: But Drake has taken their bitter feud to a new

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Speaker 1: level by filing two legal actions against Universal Music, the

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Speaker 1: parent company of the labels for both artists. Joining me

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Speaker 1: is entertainment attorney Ron, Beanstock, Obscurency Hollenbeck Ron. These aren't

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Speaker 1: lawsuits yet. Tell us about the first filed in New York,

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Speaker 1: which is a civil rico pre action suit.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, so we've got actually parallel pre complaint filings known

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Speaker 5: as petitions, one in New York, one in Texas. The

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Speaker 5: pre complaint, if you will, in New York, is based

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Speaker 5: upon the relationship between Universal and Spotify. Spotify is that's

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Speaker 5: the number one streaming service in the world. From those

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Speaker 5: who don't know who Universal is, they are a one

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Speaker 5: of the three major giant music business powerhouses, both with

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Speaker 5: recorts publishing interests, and have both artists Kendrick Lamar and

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Speaker 5: Drake through two different divisions signed to Universal Music Group,

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Speaker 5: which makes it even more confusing. But the petitions are

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Speaker 5: looking for depositions and information to establish a full complaint

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Speaker 5: cause of action against these defendants for in New York,

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Speaker 5: specifically payola, which is a nineteen thirty four law. I

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Speaker 5: once said payola to some people under thirty. They thought

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Speaker 5: I was making that word up. Payola is the illegal

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Speaker 5: payment to a radio station or could be any other

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Speaker 5: now in the digital age, another platform to play a

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Speaker 5: specific artist or specific piece of music. So in New

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Speaker 5: York it involves Spotify. In Texas it involves iHeartRadio. There's

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Speaker 5: some fascinating facts about this New York petition. I think

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Speaker 5: most people need to know that You Music Universal Music

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Speaker 5: owns three point two seven percent of Spotify. That would

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Speaker 5: have been something we wouldn't have seen in the past,

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Speaker 5: But the majors all have an interest now in Spotify,

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Speaker 5: and that Spotify pays annually in terms of streaming and

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Speaker 5: other download income, but mostly streaming income, over two point

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Speaker 5: five billion dollars to your music. So this is a

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Speaker 5: huge relationship. When you switch to the Texas action, that

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Speaker 5: really involves iHeartRadio, the number one radio station in the country,

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Speaker 5: and there's been as a complaint, it should say pre

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Speaker 5: complaints as a symbiotic relationship between new music and iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 5: New music controls a vast number of hits over the

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Speaker 5: last decade, and so if you want to have access

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Speaker 5: to those hits, you're going to be close to the

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Speaker 5: company it supplies that content to you.

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Speaker 1: So break it down for us, what does the first

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Speaker 1: petition in New York claim?

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Speaker 5: So the first petition in New York says, effectively, hey,

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Speaker 5: you favored Kendrick Lamar in this now sort of infamous

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Speaker 5: wrap beef, as we would call this relatively new phenomena,

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Speaker 5: if you will, not this east coast west coast thing,

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Speaker 5: but this very specific rapper versus rapper beef, which are

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Speaker 5: both on the same label. They say, you favored the

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Speaker 5: New York petitions as you favored Kendrick Lamar. You boosted

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Speaker 5: his song versus mine in this dispute we're having, this

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Speaker 5: this musical dispute we're having, and you favored him on it,

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Speaker 5: and you paid someone in terms of Spotify to stream

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Speaker 5: more of it, and you took advantage of what you

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Speaker 5: could take advantage of to give this artists favor over me.

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Speaker 4: So what's the.

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Speaker 1: Point of a preaction suit? What are they looking for?

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Speaker 5: They're looking for discovery. They're saying, we think it's kind

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Speaker 5: of like saying information and belief. We're saying, hey, we

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Speaker 5: think we've got some proof, but we don't have the

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Speaker 5: exact verbiage we need. We need some facts. So to

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Speaker 5: prove our facts that we can go and file a

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Speaker 5: formal with a litany of issues here, we want to

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Speaker 5: have pre complaint discovery kind of like an expedited discovery.

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Speaker 5: Both in New York involving Spotify and new music, and

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Speaker 5: then in Texas we want a very similar theory where

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Speaker 5: we're saying there was Payola committed again with the iHeart

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Speaker 5: Radio station, the national chain station. We want to have

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Speaker 5: expedited discovery so we can go find out the facts.

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Speaker 5: We want to talk to people from your music. We

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Speaker 5: want to talk to people from iHeartRadio to get the

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Speaker 5: facts so we can have a more formal complaint stile.

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Speaker 1: So just focusing on New York for a moment, do

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Speaker 1: you think that they'll be able to get that.

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Speaker 5: It's a tough hurdle to get over here saying we

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Speaker 5: don't have enough, but we want you as the core

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Speaker 5: system to provide us the right to go and do this.

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Speaker 5: I don't know if they've established enough initially with this

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Speaker 5: pre complaint petition. It will be really up to the

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Speaker 5: cour to allow some limited scope of discovery. Maybe they'll

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Speaker 5: do that. I don't think this is going to be

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Speaker 5: some wide open fields get to talk to anyone you want.

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Speaker 5: I think they're going to be very narrow to grasp

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Speaker 5: some of those facts to see if they can get

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Speaker 5: to the complaint stage. Remember we're in state court or

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Speaker 5: not in federal court. So a lot of the dismissal

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Speaker 5: issues and the standards for dismissal are slightly different in

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Speaker 5: New York and in Texas.

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Speaker 1: Now is the Texas action about defamation.

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Speaker 5: It's a combination. It is again a Payola plane saying

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Speaker 5: you favored Kendrick Lamar versus me, Drake, you favored this artist,

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Speaker 5: and you took advantage of your relationship and the power

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Speaker 5: you yield as a powerhouse, major record company and content owner,

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Speaker 5: and you took advantage of that and you preferred getting

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Speaker 5: this guy boosted versus me, and you did it through iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 5: Then there's this defamatory language which kind of runs through

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Speaker 5: both of the petitions, but more specifically in Texas says

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Speaker 5: you knew what he was saying could be false or

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Speaker 5: was false, and you allowed him to put that into lyrics.

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Speaker 5: This all took place this year, and you allowed him

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Speaker 5: to put this into lyrics, and you let that into

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Speaker 5: the marketplace. There's a side moment that I haven't seen

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Speaker 5: anybody discuss here, and I wanted to bring this one

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Speaker 5: issue up. I don't have Kendrick Lamar's recording agreement because

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Speaker 5: that's going to be confidential, but generally with record labels,

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Speaker 5: the artist has a warranty and representation that they won't

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Speaker 5: the fame, that they won't infringe on someone else's copyright

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Speaker 5: and things of this nature, and if they do, they

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Speaker 5: will have to indemnify the record company. Now, I haven't

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Speaker 5: seen anybody bring this up yet because maybe we just

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Speaker 5: don't know. And this is purely speculative because Drake has

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Speaker 5: not sued Kendrick Lamar personally in either of these pre

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Speaker 5: complaint petitions. But if he's looking to get some fiscal

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Speaker 5: up come up, and this may be the way because

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Speaker 5: of Kendrick Lamar's accused of defamatory lyrics, then he may

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Speaker 5: have to defend by being indemnifying your music against any

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Speaker 5: of these future lawsuits.

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Speaker 1: Why is he not suing or bringing these petitions against Kendrick.

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Speaker 5: Lamar question of the day is it? Because I mean,

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Speaker 5: we're going to speculate, Well, it'sfamatory, so we're saying, hey,

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Speaker 5: you claim these things are defamatory, but truth is the

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Speaker 5: absolute defense. So if Kendrick Lamar has proof or knows

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Speaker 5: these things to be true and can show that that's

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Speaker 5: not going to carry the day. That's not a good

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Speaker 5: idea for Drake. So I think that there's a lot

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Speaker 5: of personal issues going back and forth, but in the

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Speaker 5: guise of a business petition lawsuit where we are looking

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Speaker 5: to make ourselves get even with somebody in a clear

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Speaker 5: battle of entertainment, you know, stalwarts kingpins, if you will,

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Speaker 5: where one did not get to success the other did.

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Speaker 5: Perhaps they there was this you played unfair as new music.

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Speaker 5: The winner here is universal music, unless they of course

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Speaker 5: are going to eventually have to you know, pay out,

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Speaker 5: and if there's a decision against them, but they win

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Speaker 5: both ways, you know it's going to happen. All of

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Speaker 5: these these songs are going to get boosted by these lawsuits.

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Speaker 5: People go right back and start listening again. And there's

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Speaker 5: all kinds of other issues that took place. I mean,

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Speaker 5: Drake sold a portion of this catalog this year. There's

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Speaker 5: one hundred and fifty miles million dollars buyout, but kill

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Speaker 5: a meter, which is killing netra.

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Speaker 3: I think it is a.

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Speaker 5: French Canadian way you describe it in October. All this

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Speaker 5: is taking place now, and there's also this prior lawsuit

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Speaker 5: that's a copyright infringement involving Drake and the producer Chris Brown.

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Speaker 5: So Drake has some real experience here in the courtroom

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Speaker 5: in this last year. Lots of filings, lots of accusations,

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Speaker 5: a lot of things going on. It's a lot to

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Speaker 5: keep keep track of.

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Speaker 1: Okay, just on the face of it, you accuse someone

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Speaker 1: of being a certifiable pedophile, that seems defamatory to me.

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Speaker 5: And that's the interesting point because if you look at

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Speaker 5: the lyrics, he doesn't say Drake you are. He says

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Speaker 5: you know things about someone else. So that's defamatory in

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Speaker 5: an inference. But I think people know who he's inferring.

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Speaker 5: So I think you drave the straight line to the

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Speaker 5: potential plaintiff by saying, well, you know, everybody knows that's me.

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Speaker 5: Everybody knows you're talking about me. But he does not

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Speaker 5: say him by name. He does not say Drake Drake

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Speaker 5: by name.

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Speaker 1: I've been talking to entertainment lawyer Ron Beanstock Obscurency Hollenbeck.

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Speaker 1: There's been some speculation that Drake is using this to

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Speaker 1: get information from Universal to somehow get out of his deal.

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Speaker 5: Mm hmm, yeah, that that seems one of the most

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Speaker 5: likely outcomes of this. We all know getting out of

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Speaker 5: record deals. Now I don't again, I'm not. I don't

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Speaker 5: have I'm not privy to know that. The structure of

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Speaker 5: his agreement people have called a licensed deal in the press.

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Speaker 5: That's a different relationship. That means he owns his masters

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Speaker 5: and he's licensed them to them. But if you have

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Speaker 5: a long term license deal and you want to pull

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Speaker 5: back the ownership of those masters that you're releasing, this

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Speaker 5: could be one way of doing that. Clearly they don't

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Speaker 5: want to. He doesn't want to do business with these

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Speaker 5: people anymore, and I would say most likely Universal Music

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Speaker 5: doesn't want to do business with him. So maybe that

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Speaker 5: is the outcome releases where he gets all he gets

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Speaker 5: the return or reversion of all of his masters, and

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Speaker 5: that could be part of the game here. I don't

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Speaker 5: want to use the word game because it's it's serious

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Speaker 5: civil litigation, but that could be part of what he's

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Speaker 5: looking for.

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Speaker 4: A lot of artists are problematic.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that Universal really doesn't want to deal

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Speaker 1: with Drake anymore?

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Speaker 4: Considering his success?

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Speaker 5: It's a great question, why would you give into this

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Speaker 5: and drop it? But no judge is going to keep

436
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 5: two people together It don't get along anymore. Eventually, there's

437
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:19,400
Speaker 5: going to be a decision about the ownership of these

438
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:21,920
Speaker 5: masters and the reversion. I think that's not in these

439
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:25,200
Speaker 5: two suits, but we know that's coming. So if you're

440
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 5: not getting along with your and if they're just a

441
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:32,040
Speaker 5: distributor and promo arm and you don't feel they're doing

442
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 5: the job, yeah you want out. Does that mean he'll

443
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:38,920
Speaker 5: get all of the masters back. We don't know. Does

444
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:41,880
Speaker 5: that mean he'll get prior masters up until this day

445
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:44,639
Speaker 5: or the day of the decision, stay with Universal for

446
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:47,480
Speaker 5: a period of time. That'll remain to be seen. But

447
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 5: it could be that this is the methodology for Drake

448
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 5: to get himself out of his deals with Universal.

449
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:58,120
Speaker 1: I have to say, this is very confusing, So tell

450
00:26:58,119 --> 00:26:58,879
Speaker 1: me what I missed.

451
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 5: There is so much stuff going on because you've got

452
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:08,159
Speaker 5: two petitions with one of the same defendants and then

453
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:14,200
Speaker 5: two different defendants in a free complaint action to get

454
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:17,440
Speaker 5: more information about all these different people so they can

455
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 5: then go further in a lawsuit claiming that all of

456
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:25,680
Speaker 5: these things have taken place, and they revolve around really

457
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:30,479
Speaker 5: serious issues in silvil Rico payola is not just civil,

458
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:33,119
Speaker 5: but it's also a crime. Drake has brought up in

459
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:35,480
Speaker 5: the complaints in New York that you know, a long

460
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:37,400
Speaker 5: time ago. I mean, I think two thousand and six

461
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:40,439
Speaker 5: is a long time ago that you settled over a

462
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:44,879
Speaker 5: Paola complaint and you paid out. That doesn't mean it

463
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 5: took place now. But welcome to the modern digital age

464
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 5: involving Paola and bots and other terminology we didn't talk

465
00:27:56,320 --> 00:28:00,560
Speaker 5: about with CDs and vinyl. You know, it's a different world.

466
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:04,399
Speaker 5: And this is the twenty twenty four version of what

467
00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:09,600
Speaker 5: the nineteen thirty four Paola was, when record companies in

468
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,359
Speaker 5: the thirties and forties put one hundred dollars bill inside

469
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:16,760
Speaker 5: the jacket of a vinyl album cover and gave it

470
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:18,960
Speaker 5: to someone at the radio station and wait, not not,

471
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 5: please play this, this is your new favorite song. Now

472
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:25,719
Speaker 5: it's all done digitally, and now we have OLAI and

473
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:30,600
Speaker 5: we have algorithmic ways of doing this, and someone's.

474
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,159
Speaker 1: Going to have to prove that also if there was,

475
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 1: you know, the use of bots and things. And Drake

476
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 1: also probably benefited from that at some point.

477
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 5: Right, Yeah, he did. He just didn't benefit benefit from

478
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 5: it the way he felt he should have. I think

479
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 5: he felt and I'm reading these complaints he's suggesting that

480
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 5: it was unfairly weighted against him. That Kendrick Lamar and

481
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:57,720
Speaker 5: the numbers on that Kendrick Lamar track, a particular one

482
00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 5: track is like a billion streams. That's you know, Tayler

483
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:03,880
Speaker 5: Swift territory. I mean, Kendrick Lamar and Drake are two

484
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:06,840
Speaker 5: of the biggest names in their specific genre in the world.

485
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 5: These are pop icons now, and this is real money

486
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 5: in the music business. You know, we're talking about substantial income,

487
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:23,080
Speaker 5: substantial accusations that could affect other artists and how their

488
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 5: dealt with If it's true that they are committing payola

489
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 5: and they're doing it through the digital versions of the

490
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 5: one hundred dollars bill in the records leave, maybe people

491
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 5: will be less successful in the future, maybe we won't

492
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:39,440
Speaker 5: have the same numbers. I think right now we're in

493
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 5: this such a world of speculation because of the two filings,

494
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 5: and we have no rejoinders from people yet. We don't

495
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:48,719
Speaker 5: know where we're going on these We don't know if

496
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 5: the courts are going to allow these petitions to ripen

497
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:55,240
Speaker 5: into full complaints and allow this discovery. But if they do,

498
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 5: it's god be very interesting. Hip hop rap is pop

499
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 5: it really, I mean, we're talking about you know, the

500
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 5: most popular artists in the world. And it's not a

501
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 5: narrow focus, it's across every demographic. So all these demographics

502
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:14,720
Speaker 5: listen to this material. And Kendrick Lamarmy, he's been awarded

503
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 5: all kinds of laudatory awards for his poetry lyrics. So

504
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 5: people take both these people very seriously, and as pop spokesperson,

505
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:30,479
Speaker 5: they've decided to focus on each other and are talking

506
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:35,240
Speaker 5: about each other. And in doing that, one party is

507
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 5: saying that record company, Hey, you guys are favoring that

508
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 5: guy over me. No pharisees.

509
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 4: I like that, No pharisees.

510
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:45,720
Speaker 1: That really sums up the whole thing.

511
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:46,720
Speaker 4: Thanks so much.

512
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 1: Ron. That's entertainment attorney Ron Beanstock of Scurrency Holland Beck.

513
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:54,320
Speaker 1: And that's it for this edition of the Bloomberg Law Podcast.

514
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 1: Remember you can always get the latest legal news by

515
00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:00,960
Speaker 1: subscribing and listening to the show on Apple podcast, Spotify,

516
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 1: and at Bloomberg dot com, slash podcast, Slash Law.

517
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 4: I'm June Grosso and this is Bloomberg