WEBVTT - Could a Robot Make Your Salad? 0:00:15.356 --> 0:00:15.796 Pushkin. 0:00:20.276 --> 0:00:22.036 I try to bring my lunch to the office, but 0:00:22.156 --> 0:00:24.316 when I can't get my act together, which is most 0:00:24.316 --> 0:00:26.236 of the time, I go out and get lunch at 0:00:26.236 --> 0:00:29.796 a salad bowl place, and I pay like fourteen dollars. 0:00:30.316 --> 0:00:32.316 This always makes me feel like a little bit of 0:00:32.316 --> 0:00:35.116 a chump, because fourteen dollars seems like a lot to 0:00:35.156 --> 0:00:37.836 pay for a salad. But the salad is healthy and 0:00:37.876 --> 0:00:40.796 fast and tasty, so I buy it. There's of course, 0:00:40.836 --> 0:00:43.836 an issue here that goes beyond my own conflicted relationship 0:00:43.876 --> 0:00:47.036 to lunch, and that is this, a restaurant meal made 0:00:47.116 --> 0:00:51.156 with healthy, fresh ingredients costs more than a restaurant meal 0:00:51.236 --> 0:00:55.476 made with unhealthy processed ingredients. A salad costs more than 0:00:55.476 --> 0:00:58.796 a burger and fries. And it would be great not 0:00:58.996 --> 0:01:02.156 just for me, but for everybody if somebody could use 0:01:02.236 --> 0:01:06.476 technology to make my overpriced salad a lot cheaper. So 0:01:06.676 --> 0:01:08.956 I was pretty excited the other day when someone showed 0:01:08.996 --> 0:01:12.396 me video of a machine that might help make that happen. 0:01:12.636 --> 0:01:15.716 This video you sent me is password protected, which is 0:01:15.756 --> 0:01:18.516 curious to me, Like, why is it a secret this video? 0:01:18.516 --> 0:01:19.956 Why don't you want to show the world that your 0:01:19.996 --> 0:01:20.476 thing works? 0:01:21.276 --> 0:01:24.516 Because right now that version of the makeline is being 0:01:24.596 --> 0:01:26.796 tested at the Chipotle Cultivate Test Center. 0:01:26.956 --> 0:01:28.836 Oh and so you. 0:01:28.796 --> 0:01:31.556 Know, we haven't officially announced anything about this. 0:01:31.876 --> 0:01:32.876 I mean, we have. 0:01:32.756 --> 0:01:35.196 Announced that we're working together, right, but we haven't showed 0:01:35.236 --> 0:01:35.916 anything yet. O. 0:01:35.996 --> 0:01:38.476 Great, we'll I should be doing that very shortly. So 0:01:38.596 --> 0:01:39.436 this is like, which is. 0:01:39.396 --> 0:01:41.476 Why scoop it. You can't see the video yet, but 0:01:41.516 --> 0:01:44.796 we're gonna tell you about this video that you cannot 0:01:44.836 --> 0:01:52.116 yet see. I'm Jacob Goldstein. This is What's Your Problem? 0:01:52.196 --> 0:01:54.396 The show where I talk to people who are trying 0:01:54.436 --> 0:01:58.476 to make technological progress. My guest today is Stephen Klein. 0:01:58.876 --> 0:02:02.036 He's the co founder and CEO of Hyphen, a company 0:02:02.076 --> 0:02:06.716 that's developing an automated make line, basically an automated way 0:02:06.796 --> 0:02:08.996 to make the bold based meal that you get at 0:02:09.196 --> 0:02:12.996 fast casual restaurants like Chipotle or Sweet Green or whatever. 0:02:13.236 --> 0:02:15.516 Chipotle is an investor in Hyphen, and one of the 0:02:15.556 --> 0:02:18.036 major projects the company is working on is an automated 0:02:18.076 --> 0:02:21.716 system that could make online orders at thousands of Chipotle's. 0:02:22.516 --> 0:02:26.516 Steven's problem is this, how do you make restaurant food 0:02:26.716 --> 0:02:28.876 made from fresh ingredients cheaper? 0:02:30.116 --> 0:02:33.476 When my co founder Daniel and I started the company, 0:02:33.556 --> 0:02:37.796 we actually wanted to really be a vertically integrated restaurant, 0:02:37.796 --> 0:02:40.956 meaning that we wanted to effectively make the cost of 0:02:41.036 --> 0:02:43.836 healthy and delicious food the price of fast food. And 0:02:43.876 --> 0:02:46.236 we wanted to be as ubiquitous as fast food, right, 0:02:46.276 --> 0:02:49.236 And we thought that we could do that by automating 0:02:49.556 --> 0:02:52.196 the production of the food and then having it beyond wheels. 0:02:52.396 --> 0:02:55.036 So we built a fully robotic food truck at about 0:02:55.036 --> 0:02:58.356 fifteen months with five people and two million dollars, and 0:02:58.356 --> 0:03:01.396 then COVID hit about two months later, and so where 0:03:01.436 --> 0:03:03.676 we were operating at this in the back of this 0:03:03.796 --> 0:03:07.676 robotic food truck, you know, they were effectively ghost hounds, 0:03:07.836 --> 0:03:11.596 you know, overnight, and so I still remember viscerally kind 0:03:11.636 --> 0:03:14.916 of walking the streets in aerie silence, deciding like what 0:03:14.916 --> 0:03:18.476 are we gonna do. So we effectively retooled the system 0:03:18.716 --> 0:03:20.236 to put it in a make line, and that's what 0:03:20.276 --> 0:03:21.436 we're seeing today in that video. 0:03:21.516 --> 0:03:23.196 So it actually started as a food truck. 0:03:23.636 --> 0:03:26.676 Here's what you see in that password protected video. Stephen 0:03:26.716 --> 0:03:29.356 sent me this thing called the make line, which looks 0:03:29.356 --> 0:03:31.116 like what you see when you walk into a Sweet 0:03:31.116 --> 0:03:34.676 Green or a Chipotle or whatever along counter with containers 0:03:34.676 --> 0:03:38.036 of ingredients sunk into the counter. But this make line 0:03:38.196 --> 0:03:41.476 is different than all other make lines. Each container here 0:03:41.796 --> 0:03:45.036 has an automated trapdoor or augur or something in the 0:03:45.036 --> 0:03:48.876 bottom to dispense the food, and underneath the counter, like 0:03:48.956 --> 0:03:52.156 where the cabinets would normally be, there is this automated 0:03:52.196 --> 0:03:55.796 system where a bowl drops down into this like clamp 0:03:55.836 --> 0:03:58.276 at the beginning of the line, and some lettuce or 0:03:58.316 --> 0:04:01.076 whatever automatically drops into the bowl from the bin above. 0:04:01.436 --> 0:04:04.076 Then the clamp like pivots and hands the bowl off 0:04:04.116 --> 0:04:06.756 to another clamp a little further down the line, and 0:04:06.796 --> 0:04:09.516 the next ingredient is dropped into the bowl, and all on, 0:04:09.956 --> 0:04:13.196 all down the line until the salad is made, the 0:04:13.236 --> 0:04:15.116 bowl gets to the end of the line, and then 0:04:15.276 --> 0:04:18.676 finally this little elevator raises the bull up to the 0:04:18.716 --> 0:04:19.476 top of the counter. 0:04:19.876 --> 0:04:23.436 Actually, the guy that designed the elevator was designing an 0:04:23.516 --> 0:04:26.756 elevator for one of the reads at disney Land, very 0:04:26.796 --> 0:04:31.356 similar design about you know, ten thousand times the size. 0:04:31.436 --> 0:04:34.716 But it was pretty funny that that was his first project. 0:04:34.356 --> 0:04:35.236 When we kicked off. 0:04:35.476 --> 0:04:38.596 When you watch the video, the whole process actually looks 0:04:38.796 --> 0:04:42.756 kind of simple, which, of course it is not. Steven says, 0:04:42.756 --> 0:04:44.796 one of the hardest parts, which you can't see at 0:04:44.836 --> 0:04:48.196 all in the video, was getting the little trapdoor system 0:04:48.516 --> 0:04:51.636 to allow just the right amount of every ingredient to 0:04:51.796 --> 0:04:55.076 drop down into the bowl every time. And the details 0:04:55.116 --> 0:04:58.436 of why that's a hard problem illuminate why fresh food 0:04:58.556 --> 0:05:00.836 tends to be more expensive than processed food. 0:05:01.436 --> 0:05:06.316 It's extremely difficult to dispense and properly meter and plate 0:05:06.556 --> 0:05:11.756 ingredients because of the almost infinite permutations. Right, Let's take 0:05:11.796 --> 0:05:15.036 kale for example. If you have kale, it will change 0:05:15.036 --> 0:05:18.476 its permutations or characteristics depending upon how it's cut. Whether 0:05:18.516 --> 0:05:21.916 that's sautaied, blanched of and roasted, it will change permutation. 0:05:22.116 --> 0:05:23.036 Potentially if it's. 0:05:23.076 --> 0:05:26.036 Sourced in Salinas you know, where we're at, you know, 0:05:26.196 --> 0:05:28.636 or nearby where we're at, or somewhere else, it will 0:05:28.676 --> 0:05:31.396 change depending upon the cut method, right, if you cut 0:05:31.396 --> 0:05:34.356 it a different way. So being able to be agnostic 0:05:34.396 --> 0:05:38.076 to the type of ingredient is extremely difficult. 0:05:38.516 --> 0:05:40.956 So we basically have to you know, map. 0:05:40.716 --> 0:05:44.076 All these materials and characteristics to basically better understand how 0:05:44.116 --> 0:05:46.276 to feed that ingredient, and then it will get better 0:05:46.276 --> 0:05:46.716 over time. 0:05:47.076 --> 0:05:49.196 That's interesting, I mean, it makes me think about the 0:05:49.276 --> 0:05:52.956 difference between processed food and fresh food, right, And when 0:05:52.996 --> 0:05:55.276 you buy processed with anything that's like in the middle 0:05:55.276 --> 0:05:57.396 of the grocery store, you know, comes in a box, 0:05:57.796 --> 0:06:02.156 it's like become very homogenized, right, presumably so that it 0:06:02.196 --> 0:06:05.716 can be produced at scale by machines, whereas what you 0:06:05.796 --> 0:06:10.316 get at a Chipotle or sweet grain is very heterogeneous. Right, 0:06:10.356 --> 0:06:12.396 as you say, not all kale stocks are the same. 0:06:12.916 --> 0:06:15.956 And not to mention, there's like fifty different ingredients there 0:06:15.956 --> 0:06:18.636 could be. So do you have to build or more 0:06:18.676 --> 0:06:21.196 obviously there's more than fifty different ingredients? Do you have 0:06:21.276 --> 0:06:25.796 to build a different dispenser for every ingredient? Like if 0:06:25.796 --> 0:06:28.396 somebody's like, we want to do cantilina beans, right, do 0:06:28.396 --> 0:06:29.796 you have to be like, oh shit, all we know 0:06:29.836 --> 0:06:31.116 how to do is chick beans. We got to go 0:06:31.116 --> 0:06:33.316 build a whole new machine for cantelini beans. 0:06:33.836 --> 0:06:37.076 Yeah, So we have about six different feeder types or 0:06:37.156 --> 0:06:39.796 dispenser types. We'd have one that you know, has to 0:06:39.836 --> 0:06:41.916 deal with like guauca mole in the case of Chipotle, 0:06:42.516 --> 0:06:45.716 or pico de gayo, which is very different than guacamole 0:06:45.756 --> 0:06:47.836 in terms of this viscosity as well. 0:06:47.876 --> 0:06:50.316 As it's kind of you know, the chunkier. 0:06:49.956 --> 0:06:52.916 Ingredients, and then you have leafy greens, right, and that 0:06:52.916 --> 0:06:56.076 that's going to you know, perform wildly arugula, et cetera. 0:06:56.836 --> 0:07:00.316 So we yeah, we effectively have about six six dispensers 0:07:00.396 --> 0:07:04.836 handle you know, thousands of ingredients at this point that 0:07:04.876 --> 0:07:07.716 we've we've we've mapped and started to kind of understand 0:07:07.756 --> 0:07:12.076 their characteristics. Greens, especially a arugula early on was was 0:07:12.116 --> 0:07:14.836 pretty difficult to dispense. It would just start wrapping around 0:07:14.876 --> 0:07:18.596 these these kind of paddle wheels or augurs, and you know, 0:07:18.676 --> 0:07:21.316 I think we designed about seven hundred and fifty prototypes to. 0:07:21.276 --> 0:07:23.556 Get to the design that we have now. 0:07:23.596 --> 0:07:25.836 We three D print when we test, so we can 0:07:25.836 --> 0:07:28.556 do it in about a day and then test the 0:07:28.596 --> 0:07:29.196 next morning. 0:07:29.676 --> 0:07:31.676 Was there a moment when you sort of solve the 0:07:31.756 --> 0:07:32.876 leafy greens problem? 0:07:33.436 --> 0:07:36.396 Yeah, I mean it was just through rapid iteration. There 0:07:36.476 --> 0:07:38.596 was no one thing. It was just you know, these 0:07:38.636 --> 0:07:41.996 micro improvements we made along the way. And then the 0:07:42.036 --> 0:07:43.796 case of like black beans, where you get like that 0:07:43.876 --> 0:07:46.916 pulled up juice, you know, sometimes it's pretty unpleasant. 0:07:47.636 --> 0:07:49.916 You know, we effectively had to build. 0:07:49.916 --> 0:07:53.916 An auger that would basically push the ingredients out while 0:07:54.516 --> 0:07:57.716 you know, effectively letting some of that black bean juice 0:07:57.756 --> 0:07:59.836 kind slide into almost like a gutter and a kind 0:07:59.836 --> 0:08:01.916 of a septic tank in the back there. 0:08:02.116 --> 0:08:04.196 And so you do get some liquid, but not not 0:08:04.316 --> 0:08:04.916 that pool. 0:08:05.116 --> 0:08:08.556 I like that, although not to give you on solicit advice, 0:08:08.596 --> 0:08:12.196 I'd suggest avoiding the septic tank metaphor with the make line, 0:08:13.836 --> 0:08:15.036 especially with the beans. 0:08:15.276 --> 0:08:15.516 Great. 0:08:15.636 --> 0:08:18.556 Yeah, and I'd say, like the trickiest thing that we 0:08:18.636 --> 0:08:22.956 haven't solved yet is fand avocado. So we can do guacamoley, 0:08:23.116 --> 0:08:24.956 we can do like you know, the goofs and mounds, 0:08:24.956 --> 0:08:29.636 but getting that beautiful fan avocado slices like quite difficult 0:08:29.636 --> 0:08:29.916 to do. 0:08:30.476 --> 0:08:35.196 Yes, Slicing fish filets things. 0:08:34.956 --> 0:08:36.996 Like that can be quite difficult when they're you know, 0:08:38.116 --> 0:08:38.996 very sensitive. 0:08:39.356 --> 0:08:43.116 So do you give up, like it's fandavocado off the table? 0:08:43.596 --> 0:08:47.036 Yeah, there are some ingredients like fand avocado that you know, 0:08:47.876 --> 0:08:50.476 the operator on the line, because they're just kind of 0:08:50.476 --> 0:08:53.156 waiting for balls on the line, they can just add 0:08:53.316 --> 0:08:56.036 It's called expo, but they basically would just add the 0:08:56.036 --> 0:08:59.596 the avocado or those last final finishing items at the 0:08:59.676 --> 0:09:00.436 end there. 0:09:00.276 --> 0:09:01.356 That we can do today. 0:09:01.596 --> 0:09:05.036 So you've been working on this for what a little 0:09:05.076 --> 0:09:07.636 more than three years now. I know you've got an 0:09:07.716 --> 0:09:11.876 investment from Chipotle last year and you're sort of building 0:09:12.076 --> 0:09:17.116 a version of your line for Chipotle. Now, where is 0:09:17.596 --> 0:09:22.276 your line your product in the world now? Like, is 0:09:22.316 --> 0:09:23.316 it in restaurants now? 0:09:24.476 --> 0:09:27.596 Yeah, it's it's in a few and we have a 0:09:27.596 --> 0:09:30.156 lot actually coming in Q four of this year. 0:09:30.196 --> 0:09:31.956 We're just kind of starting to ramp up production. 0:09:32.356 --> 0:09:34.276 How many restaurants is your machine in now? 0:09:34.796 --> 0:09:36.036 About a dozen? Okay? 0:09:36.676 --> 0:09:39.716 And what's happening with Chipotle? Like, so Chipotle made an 0:09:39.756 --> 0:09:42.196 investment in your company last year, right, So like that 0:09:42.276 --> 0:09:46.076 seems significant? Like is that I don't know, that seems 0:09:46.076 --> 0:09:47.356 like a big deal. And what's happening with that? 0:09:48.156 --> 0:09:50.956 Yeah, and they're actually investing in the second time too. 0:09:51.156 --> 0:09:53.156 We're just wrapping that up right now, so we'll have 0:09:53.396 --> 0:09:55.476 some stuff to announce also. 0:09:55.996 --> 0:09:59.476 And Q four of this year with Chipotle, is. 0:09:59.396 --> 0:10:03.076 It likely that your machine will be in Chipotle next year? 0:10:03.516 --> 0:10:03.716 Yes? 0:10:04.276 --> 0:10:07.156 The CEO of Chipotle, you know, I think Believe has 0:10:07.156 --> 0:10:09.636 publicly stated, you know, he wants to all this out 0:10:09.676 --> 0:10:11.716 fleet wide, So you know, I think they have like 0:10:11.756 --> 0:10:13.716 thirty five hundred stores today. 0:10:14.316 --> 0:10:16.596 I mean you're saying there are thousands of Chipotlas in 0:10:16.596 --> 0:10:19.236 the world and they want your machine and all of them. 0:10:19.596 --> 0:10:23.156 Yes, they to have all of their digital orders. Yes, 0:10:23.676 --> 0:10:25.956 front of house you know, will always be front of house. 0:10:26.356 --> 0:10:29.436 Oh that's interesting. So the idea is your machine would 0:10:29.436 --> 0:10:31.436 be in the in the back of the restaurant, and 0:10:31.476 --> 0:10:35.076 when people order on their app, the robot your machine 0:10:35.076 --> 0:10:37.476 would make it, and when people walk in, a person 0:10:37.516 --> 0:10:38.076 would make it. 0:10:38.116 --> 0:10:40.476 Is that is that the idea precisely? 0:10:40.676 --> 0:10:43.076 And having that you know, that staff that's friendly and 0:10:43.076 --> 0:10:46.076 providing that hospitality is super important if you're ordering in person, right, 0:10:46.076 --> 0:10:48.316 But if you're ordering from your phone, you know, you 0:10:48.396 --> 0:10:51.596 just want your food to be fresh, fast and you know, accurate, ideally, 0:10:52.356 --> 0:10:54.836 and that's where we help. I mean, right now we're 0:10:54.916 --> 0:10:57.516 really focused on just getting these lines to produce and 0:10:57.556 --> 0:10:59.276 plate you know, perfect food every time. 0:10:59.756 --> 0:11:01.836 How far are you from them? Like, I guess it's 0:11:01.916 --> 0:11:04.236 not binary when you say like every time. I mean 0:11:04.236 --> 0:11:06.756 it's never going to be every every time, right, But 0:11:06.876 --> 0:11:11.996 there's some percentage liability presumably where it like, if you 0:11:12.036 --> 0:11:16.316 get above X, then it makes operational and economic sense. Right, 0:11:16.356 --> 0:11:18.996 What is X in terms of the uptim or reliability 0:11:19.076 --> 0:11:20.116 or whatever the metric is. 0:11:20.356 --> 0:11:23.116 Yeah, I mean, like you want to be at ninety 0:11:23.156 --> 0:11:25.636 nine percent up time, ideally ninety nine point nine percent 0:11:25.676 --> 0:11:27.556 up time. In the event that you don't, you know, 0:11:27.596 --> 0:11:29.756 it's just like when your Internet goes down or you know, 0:11:29.796 --> 0:11:31.356 your slack goes down, right. 0:11:31.236 --> 0:11:32.196 And what are you at now? 0:11:33.636 --> 0:11:34.196 Ninety five? 0:11:34.396 --> 0:11:34.796 Okay? 0:11:34.916 --> 0:11:37.276 Going from ninety five to ninety nine is really hard, 0:11:37.276 --> 0:11:39.556 and going from ninety nine to ninety nine point nine 0:11:39.676 --> 0:11:40.636 is even harder. 0:11:41.716 --> 0:11:43.756 So in a sense, the first ninety five percent, like 0:11:43.796 --> 0:11:46.276 you've done the easy part, in the last four percent 0:11:46.396 --> 0:11:49.476 is hard, and then the last zero point nine percent 0:11:49.596 --> 0:11:53.116 is killer is in order it might be harder? Yeah, 0:11:53.236 --> 0:11:55.916 And that's where that like one weird kale leaf just 0:11:55.916 --> 0:12:01.276 screws you, right, Ah, that fand avocado, right, fand avocado. 0:12:01.316 --> 0:12:03.476 We gave up on fand avocado and you're still at 0:12:03.556 --> 0:12:07.076 ninety five to get So do you just have to 0:12:07.196 --> 0:12:10.316 keep iterating to get from ninety five to ninety nine? 0:12:10.956 --> 0:12:13.236 So that's a really great question. 0:12:13.316 --> 0:12:17.436 So right now we are going through we're basically doing 0:12:17.476 --> 0:12:20.156 in DFMA, so design for manufacturing assembly, and as we 0:12:20.196 --> 0:12:22.356 do that, we start to injectionable parts, we start to 0:12:22.396 --> 0:12:26.116 kind of get you know, production ready materials that will 0:12:26.236 --> 0:12:27.756 drastically improve. 0:12:27.476 --> 0:12:29.836 Going from prototype to production basically. 0:12:30.316 --> 0:12:32.596 Yeah, we're also doing a lot of accelerated life testing. 0:12:32.676 --> 0:12:35.476 So we actually, you know, we did this system. 0:12:35.916 --> 0:12:38.596 We started in November on this new system, and we 0:12:38.796 --> 0:12:42.676 you know, we launched in April, so pretty quick, right, 0:12:43.396 --> 0:12:46.436 But you know, doing accelerated life testing, we have to 0:12:46.756 --> 0:12:48.756 run thousands of times. So I think we have like 0:12:48.756 --> 0:12:52.316 we've clocked like ten years on our subsystems. But through 0:12:52.356 --> 0:12:54.716 that type of testing and knowing where the failure points 0:12:54.756 --> 0:12:57.316 are and the hardware is how we get to that 0:12:57.396 --> 0:13:00.436 ninety nine percent. Yeah, it's just those types of iterations, right, 0:13:00.876 --> 0:13:04.156 and just micro improvements on the actual design itself. 0:13:04.756 --> 0:13:08.836 So okay, So if we imagine this future where there 0:13:08.956 --> 0:13:14.076 is a much more highly automated, fast casual sort of 0:13:14.196 --> 0:13:18.796 restaurant universe, I mean one question is it cheaper? Right? Like, 0:13:18.876 --> 0:13:21.596 one of my favorite things about technology is it makes 0:13:21.636 --> 0:13:24.636 things cheaper. I try and bring my lunch to work, 0:13:24.636 --> 0:13:27.636 but I do end up buying the fifteen dollars salad 0:13:28.236 --> 0:13:30.236 once or twice a week and feeling like a chump 0:13:30.236 --> 0:13:31.956 for spending that much on a salad, though it is 0:13:31.996 --> 0:13:34.756 a good salad, Like, will it get my fifteen dollars 0:13:34.796 --> 0:13:37.076 salad to a nine dollars salad. 0:13:38.236 --> 0:13:39.596 Maybe even cheaper? Right? 0:13:40.116 --> 0:13:42.876 Because again, you know, the two primary drivers of that 0:13:42.916 --> 0:13:45.836 price is the food, the quality of the foods, and 0:13:45.876 --> 0:13:48.956 then labor, right is this second. And so if you 0:13:48.996 --> 0:13:51.876 can make the marginal cost of producing food near zero, 0:13:52.476 --> 0:13:55.796 you know, you can drastically reduce that price, right, and 0:13:55.916 --> 0:13:58.436 you could get that you know, nine dollars five dollars salad. 0:13:58.636 --> 0:13:58.916 Five. 0:13:58.996 --> 0:14:02.076 I like that, You're going for five five dollars salad. Really, 0:14:02.396 --> 0:14:03.196 that's big for me. 0:14:03.716 --> 0:14:04.156 You like that? 0:14:08.556 --> 0:14:10.436 Now it's time for an ad that It'll be back 0:14:10.476 --> 0:14:22.796 in a minute. Okay, the ad is over. Back to Stephen. 0:14:23.236 --> 0:14:26.716 Stephen has this long term dream for Hyphen. He wants 0:14:26.716 --> 0:14:29.156 the company to open up its own make lines in 0:14:29.236 --> 0:14:32.196 cities around the country, and then he wants to let 0:14:32.436 --> 0:14:37.276 anyone who wants to to create their own basically virtual restaurant. 0:14:37.476 --> 0:14:41.236 So whatever I could go online, I could design Goldstein bowls, 0:14:41.676 --> 0:14:44.436 sell them for nine dollars a bowl, list them on 0:14:44.596 --> 0:14:47.916 Uber eats and seamless, so I would look like a restaurant, 0:14:48.116 --> 0:14:51.076 but Hyphen would be doing the actual food part. They'd 0:14:51.076 --> 0:14:54.036 be buying the ingredients making the bowls, and they would 0:14:54.076 --> 0:14:56.716 just charge me a fee for each bowl that I sold. 0:14:57.236 --> 0:14:59.156 So that is a universe where you have a sort 0:14:59.156 --> 0:15:05.236 of automated ghost or virtual kitchen. Right, Like, there's no 0:15:06.476 --> 0:15:08.836 restaurant as we think of it in that universe. There's 0:15:08.876 --> 0:15:12.076 not like a sign outside or whatever, but it exists 0:15:12.156 --> 0:15:14.116 on your phone, and it can make any number of 0:15:14.156 --> 0:15:18.556 kinds of food, presumably cheaply and quickly. 0:15:19.276 --> 0:15:22.556 I mean, that is what excites me. My sister in law, Sathara, 0:15:22.636 --> 0:15:24.636 she's in Brooklyn. You know, she's always wanted to start 0:15:24.676 --> 0:15:27.556 her own restaurant. I always just imagine her, you know, 0:15:27.636 --> 0:15:31.076 in her apartment, you know, developing a recipe on HERKMS 0:15:31.076 --> 0:15:34.076 on our Hyphen Kitchen management system, taste testing it on 0:15:34.076 --> 0:15:37.196 a nearby make line, and then launching her brand on 0:15:37.276 --> 0:15:39.676 door Dash or uber eats, right and getting it fulfilled 0:15:39.676 --> 0:15:42.476 that way. Why Hyphen you know, can scale when she's ready. 0:15:42.796 --> 0:15:44.836 So I kind of actually see it now. I think 0:15:44.836 --> 0:15:47.156 about it kind of like you know what happened in 0:15:47.196 --> 0:15:50.036 the beer industry where you had you know, Budweiser and 0:15:50.076 --> 0:15:52.716 Anaheuser Bush and then you had all these craft beers 0:15:52.796 --> 0:15:55.836 right and from Portland, Oregon, so IPAs and things like that. 0:15:56.196 --> 0:15:58.196 I see a similar movement happen where you go from 0:15:58.196 --> 0:16:01.596 overly processed food like McDonald's to you know, more of 0:16:01.636 --> 0:16:05.476 the artisanal meals that are you know, local to you. 0:16:05.676 --> 0:16:06.036 Huh. 0:16:06.316 --> 0:16:08.596 And then if it's like the beer industry, all those 0:16:08.756 --> 0:16:11.836 artists and all craft of bowl makers will get acquired 0:16:11.916 --> 0:16:15.636 by Chipotle, right, just like all the craft beer maker 0:16:15.636 --> 0:16:17.196 it's got acquired by AB and BEV. 0:16:18.236 --> 0:16:18.916 That is true. 0:16:18.956 --> 0:16:21.436 That could happen, and so that happens in this new 0:16:21.516 --> 0:16:25.356 universe because the startup costs are lower, essentially, because the 0:16:25.356 --> 0:16:27.756 startup costs can be very low where you don't even 0:16:27.756 --> 0:16:29.436 have to start a restaurant. You just go to you 0:16:29.556 --> 0:16:31.756 and say I want to start selling balls, and you're like, okay, 0:16:31.756 --> 0:16:33.356 you're not selling very many, so we're going to charge 0:16:33.356 --> 0:16:35.716 you three dollars a bowl. And I'm like, whatever, that's fun. 0:16:35.716 --> 0:16:37.476 I'm just sitting here at my computer. And if nobody 0:16:37.516 --> 0:16:39.876 it's like, you're like the Zazzle Shop, but for salad 0:16:39.916 --> 0:16:41.276 bowls exactly. 0:16:41.276 --> 0:16:42.716 And if we're doing that for so many people where 0:16:42.796 --> 0:16:45.076 they can do three or four bowls and they you know, 0:16:45.316 --> 0:16:47.836 it's again are like maybe a better example is like 0:16:47.876 --> 0:16:50.116 a Spotify or square space, right, Like they're designing their 0:16:50.156 --> 0:16:53.036 menu on the website, but it's effectively that easy to run. 0:16:53.116 --> 0:16:55.276 They're not making the food, they're not driving the food, 0:16:55.316 --> 0:16:57.956 they're not you know, having to buy real estate, right, 0:16:57.996 --> 0:16:59.956 they can do it all from their own dormer. 0:16:59.636 --> 0:17:03.276 Apartment in that universe. The sort of ghost kitchen restaurant, 0:17:03.316 --> 0:17:06.516 it's really a marketing question, right, Like, I mean, sure 0:17:06.516 --> 0:17:08.116 you want the food to taste good, but it's like 0:17:08.116 --> 0:17:09.996 a fixed set of ingreded against the Food's not going 0:17:10.036 --> 0:17:11.916 to be that different. What's going to be different is 0:17:11.996 --> 0:17:15.316 like whatever can you get everybody on TikTok to buy 0:17:15.436 --> 0:17:16.916 the brand salad with your name on it? 0:17:16.996 --> 0:17:17.236 Right? 0:17:18.396 --> 0:17:21.276 Yeah, it's like TikTok becomes like QVC meets the Food 0:17:21.276 --> 0:17:23.916 Network or something right where people are like you know, 0:17:23.996 --> 0:17:25.916 selling their meals on TikTok. 0:17:26.396 --> 0:17:31.756 And then what do you see happening with traditional restaurants 0:17:32.116 --> 0:17:34.916 where you you know, sit down and a waiter comes 0:17:34.956 --> 0:17:38.436 to your table and you order food from that person 0:17:39.756 --> 0:17:42.076 and there's a chef in the back cooking the food. Like, 0:17:42.116 --> 0:17:43.396 what's going to happen with that. 0:17:45.156 --> 0:17:47.356 Yeah, I think it's going to be bifurcated. It kind 0:17:47.356 --> 0:17:50.396 of already is like the food experience are eating is 0:17:50.476 --> 0:17:52.756 quite bifurcated, right, You have there are times when you 0:17:52.796 --> 0:17:54.676 want to have these types of conversations, got to a 0:17:54.676 --> 0:17:57.476 fancy dinner, drink wine, have a som kind of you know, 0:17:57.636 --> 0:18:00.476 tell you about that selection, and you know, really really 0:18:00.516 --> 0:18:02.396 experience the food and enjoy the conversation. 0:18:02.756 --> 0:18:03.796 And then there's times when you. 0:18:03.756 --> 0:18:06.076 Just did you get to your desk, or like your 0:18:06.156 --> 0:18:08.156 kids are at home and you know the house is 0:18:08.156 --> 0:18:10.996 busy and you just need food like fuel. Are you 0:18:11.116 --> 0:18:12.996 love food and you don't want it to be fuel, 0:18:13.076 --> 0:18:15.196 but like you just don't have the bandwidth at the time. 0:18:15.676 --> 0:18:18.756 Are the money? I think that's where you know automation 0:18:18.876 --> 0:18:19.316 can help. 0:18:19.676 --> 0:18:22.036 And so do you think that like classic restaurant isn't 0:18:22.036 --> 0:18:24.116 going to be any different than it is today? You 0:18:24.156 --> 0:18:25.036 think it'll be the same. 0:18:25.276 --> 0:18:25.756 I don't think it. 0:18:25.756 --> 0:18:29.196 Will change much because it's just like coffee, right, It's 0:18:29.276 --> 0:18:31.276 kind of built around this kind of artisanal kind of 0:18:31.316 --> 0:18:33.796 craft experience and it's really conduit to culture. 0:18:33.876 --> 0:18:35.916 Right, So you have a lot of folks that are 0:18:35.916 --> 0:18:37.356 going there for more than just the food. 0:18:37.396 --> 0:18:39.596 They're going there for the hospitality, and they're going for 0:18:39.636 --> 0:18:42.676 that entire experience. I don't think you can automate that 0:18:42.756 --> 0:18:46.236 experience ever, So I don't see that changing much at all. 0:18:46.596 --> 0:18:49.476 But again, the rest, the other side, the other fifty percent, 0:18:50.556 --> 0:18:51.676 is going to change massively. 0:18:55.236 --> 0:18:57.316 We'll be back in a minute with the lightning round. 0:19:08.396 --> 0:19:13.396 Back to the show. Okay, let's do the lightning round. Okay, 0:19:13.716 --> 0:19:16.636 do you cook? Oh yeah, what's a go to weeknight 0:19:16.676 --> 0:19:17.756 dinner that you cook. 0:19:19.436 --> 0:19:21.716 It's gonna sound silly. We love salads. 0:19:21.916 --> 0:19:25.316 My salad that I love it's kind of like a 0:19:25.316 --> 0:19:27.476 caesar salad, but it's it's it's kind of got a twist. 0:19:27.996 --> 0:19:30.436 We borrow the recipe from John and Vinnie's, which is 0:19:30.476 --> 0:19:33.116 a pizza pizza company out here in La where it's 0:19:33.196 --> 0:19:35.116 kind of a spicy caesar. So you got a lot 0:19:35.156 --> 0:19:37.716