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Speaker 1: Welcome. You are now listening to the Professional profession. Hey,

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Speaker 1: Professional home Girls is the kid of a name from

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Speaker 1: the PSD podcast, the only place where you would hear

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Speaker 1: interviews from black women an honestly on stories that will

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Speaker 1: enlighten and expand on taboo topics. Now, if you hear

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Speaker 1: someone that sounds familiar, mind the business that pays you child.

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Speaker 1: make sure you visit the link in the show notes below.

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Speaker 1: You can connect with the kid on Instagram at the

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Speaker 1: Professional home Girl and at the PhD podcast. If you

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Speaker 1: If you are all caught up with episode, listen to

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Speaker 1: the bonus episodes by supporting the PSD podcast Patreon account.

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Speaker 1: To support, please visit www dot patreon dot com. Forward

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Speaker 1: slash the PSG podcast now. Please keep in mind that

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Speaker 1: all of my guests are Annes, So let's again this

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Speaker 1: week's episode. So I am super excited to have my

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Speaker 1: guests on the show. Today as she shares details on

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Speaker 1: working at an abortion clinic. So, to my guests, how

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Speaker 1: are you doing. I'm good, Thanks so much for having

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Speaker 1: me yere Yes, I'm like super excited because abortion has

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Speaker 1: been the talk of the town. Everybody has been talking

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Speaker 1: about it. It looks like the world hates women. So

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Speaker 1: I'm super excited to get your insight on everything. So

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Speaker 1: before me, yeah, you're you currently live in Buffalo, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so I'm currently in Buffalo, New York. Um. That's also

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Speaker 1: where the clinic that I worked at um is located.

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Speaker 1: So with everything that's been happening, with the hate crime

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Speaker 1: in the news, it's just been a lot to process. Um,

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Speaker 1: it's been really it's been really hard as a black

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Speaker 1: person in Buffalo because if you know anything about the city,

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Speaker 1: it is a very segregated city. Still, it's very much

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Speaker 1: like black folks on the east side, um, white folks

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Speaker 1: in North Buffalo. You have like a big sort of

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Speaker 1: like Hispanic Latin population on the west side. Um. So

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Speaker 1: the fact that like this crime happened not just in Buffalo,

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Speaker 1: but like specifically like on the east side, at one

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Speaker 1: of the only supermarkets on the east side, it's like

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Speaker 1: everyone's affected, Like even myself and my family, Like we've

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Speaker 1: gone shopping at that supermarket before, Like we know people

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Speaker 1: who shop there. You know, I have friends who when

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Speaker 1: we like when I got my first ever summer job,

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Speaker 1: like we would go there to cash our summer job check.

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Speaker 1: So this is like that held like a lot of importance. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it helps a lot of importance of the community. So

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Speaker 1: it's like, not only do we have to you know

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Speaker 1: more in the people that lost their lives, now this

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Speaker 1: community also lost their grocery store and it's really hard,

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Speaker 1: but there's a lot of good work being done, which

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Speaker 1: is nice and rebuild the grocery store or yeah, so

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Speaker 1: they are. What I heard is that they do have

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Speaker 1: plans to reopen. I don't know when because you know,

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Speaker 1: like the investigation is still happening, like the FBI is there,

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Speaker 1: so exactly yeah, yeah, because I haven't heard anything about

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Speaker 1: Buffalo unless I'm looking it up and just to do research,

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Speaker 1: and they just keep what's going on exactly. Like the

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Speaker 1: fact that it's like already like out of the news

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Speaker 1: cycle already is so crazy because it's like to the

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Speaker 1: rest of the country like it's but to everybody else here,

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Speaker 1: it's like No, it's just getting started. Like we still

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Speaker 1: have the FBI here, We still have the police still investigating, right,

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Speaker 1: Like they arrested the guy, they have him in custody,

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Speaker 1: but all of this work is still going on. Apparently

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Speaker 1: they do have plans to reopen the supermarket, um, but

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Speaker 1: again not sure when um. And you know, one of

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Speaker 1: the persons that lost their lives was someone who worked there.

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Speaker 1: He was the security guard as the supermarket, So that

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Speaker 1: in itself was like, do we reopen this place? Do

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Speaker 1: we shut it down and open somewhere else? So comfortable

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Speaker 1: shop right now because I just to know what right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'd be I'd be scared same. And I feel like,

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Speaker 1: at the same time, what happened in Buffalo is like

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Speaker 1: traffic and clearly, you know, because of racism, because of

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Speaker 1: this kid who thought, you know, he was a white supremacist.

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Speaker 1: But at the same time, this like mash shooting thing

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Speaker 1: is such an American problem that I feel like if

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Speaker 1: it didn't happen here, it couldn't happened anywhere else. And

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Speaker 1: I think that's another part that just feel so scary, right,

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Speaker 1: like you never know and it's not like, you know,

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Speaker 1: we hear about these shootings in the news all the time,

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Speaker 1: but the fact that it happened here in my community,

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Speaker 1: it's just like an extra level of like what the

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Speaker 1: hell right? And I keep saying before we started to record,

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Speaker 1: we don't really hear about Buffalo, let's just refer to Gristna. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so it's just like Grisselda, the snow or the bill.

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Speaker 1: So like the season, like my city and the news

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Speaker 1: all the time. It's been It's also been shocking seeing

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Speaker 1: that so many people who are not from Buffalo talk

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Speaker 1: about buh Bala, because on some parts, I'm just sort

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Speaker 1: of like, I'm glad that people are talking about it,

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Speaker 1: sprunting awareness and like donating to all these organizations here

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Speaker 1: that are doing good work. At the same time, it's

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Speaker 1: like this city has needed health and fun thing and

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Speaker 1: money from the state for a very long time, and

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Speaker 1: hopefully this like brings attention to it and hopefully we

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Speaker 1: don't get left behind again. But I'm afraid that what's

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Speaker 1: gonna happen is like it's not in the new cycle anymore.

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Speaker 1: People are just gonna forget and it's just another cycle, right,

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Speaker 1: because it's not like a Brooklyn or my head into

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Speaker 1: something so unfortunate. Well, my adulence is to those that

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Speaker 1: lost their lives. I remember, Um, I was doing my

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Speaker 1: research on it, and it was an older lady that

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Speaker 1: she uh wrote an article about gun balance and and

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, so sad. Yeah she

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Speaker 1: um Like, if I can remember her name, I think

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Speaker 1: it's it's catch Well, I'm gonna pull it up. Catherine Massey. Um.

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Speaker 1: She wrote for a couple of Buffalo newspapers, the Buffalo

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Speaker 1: Challenger and the Buffalo Criterion. She was very much like

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Speaker 1: anti guns, pro gun control, and so it's just like

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Speaker 1: while that she lost her life in a shooting, like, right,

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Speaker 1: oh God, bless Buffalo for real. Yeah. Well, so my

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Speaker 1: first question for you is have you ever had an abortion?

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Speaker 1: I have not. I've actually never been pregnant. Is it

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Speaker 1: an option for me? Um? I would say yes, And

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Speaker 1: I think sort of work where I'm at right now.

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Speaker 1: If I found that I was pregnant tomorrow, I probably

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Speaker 1: would have an abortion. You know. I'm just I'm not

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Speaker 1: in a place right now where like having a child,

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Speaker 1: there's an option for me really, Um, But I think

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Speaker 1: I do think that, like it is an option, and

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Speaker 1: you know, circumstances may change. But for someone who, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I've never been pregnant before, so I've never had a

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Speaker 1: baby or had an abortion. So um, it's been interesting

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Speaker 1: working at that faith not having been or had a

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Speaker 1: kid or anything like that. Well, I never shared this

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Speaker 1: story on the platform, but I had an abortion, I

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Speaker 1: believe almost ten years ago, so I would have had

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Speaker 1: a ten year old, which is a ten year old girl.

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Speaker 1: Can you remagine having a general room And God, bless

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Speaker 1: the parents doing this pandemic, because my god, yeah girl.

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Speaker 1: But I was just like, yeah, bless anybody that's dealing

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Speaker 1: with a kid, because I can't bless the kids out

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Speaker 1: here because I can only imagine how stressed out they

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Speaker 1: is because they don't know what the hell the pandemic is.

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Speaker 1: But I want to share this story because I feel

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Speaker 1: like I don't know for me to obviously it was

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Speaker 1: a mistake and I definitely wasn't ready to be somebody mother.

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Speaker 1: And when I think about the whole process, like, I

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Speaker 1: was just so scared, And I remember going from the

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Speaker 1: parenthood and at first I was out to eat with

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Speaker 1: friends at like some Mexican restaurant in the city whatever,

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Speaker 1: and I'm trying to take a shot and I couldn't

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Speaker 1: take it, and I was like, oh my god, is

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Speaker 1: this alcohol, Like oh, like it's it expired, like me

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Speaker 1: being a blonde. And then I remember because I get

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Speaker 1: really back up motion sickness, so I never get it

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Speaker 1: when I'm driving. So I was driving in a car whatever,

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Speaker 1: driving my car the time, and I was eating the

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Speaker 1: apple and I threw it up, so I was like,

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Speaker 1: I know I'm not pregnant. So I ended up taking

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Speaker 1: a pregnancy test and I was definitely pregnant. Um, and

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Speaker 1: I went to playing Parenthood and I went with my

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Speaker 1: friend at the time, and oh my gosh, she was

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Speaker 1: so freaking embarrassing because we went to one downtown Brooklyn

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Speaker 1: and she knew everybody. They daddy. So I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: you here, I'm gonna tell your dad and she was like,

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Speaker 1: I'm near my home. Girl. She don't know what she

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Speaker 1: wouldn't do, bloody blooded, And I was like, bitch, I

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Speaker 1: don't need you telling people what's going on with me. Yeah, right,

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Speaker 1: like girl. And I remember the damn my procedure like

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Speaker 1: I just wanted to get it over it because I

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Speaker 1: get really like anxious and nervous, and my anxiety started

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Speaker 1: kicking in which I'm pretty sure a lot of people

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Speaker 1: can relate to when I don't have control over the situation.

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Speaker 1: And I just remember because I wanted to be to

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Speaker 1: dated like I didn't want to feel nothing, I don't

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Speaker 1: want to see nothing. And I just remember this one

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Speaker 1: song and I not this song, and I can't remember

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Speaker 1: the song for the life of me. And I remember

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Speaker 1: waking up after the waking up after the procedure, and

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Speaker 1: I was running out to the bathroom because I had

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Speaker 1: to throw up, and I'm seeing girls like crying and yelling.

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Speaker 1: I'm seeing sticks in somebody's vagina, and I was like,

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Speaker 1: oh no, I gotta go home. I tell you, I

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Speaker 1: learned my lesson and I got on birth controls so

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Speaker 1: quick because I wouldn't. I just did not want to

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Speaker 1: ever go through that again. Mm hmm. So when you

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Speaker 1: heard that it was a possibility that Rod versus Way

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Speaker 1: was being overturned, where were your thoughts? Honestly, I had

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Speaker 1: multiple thoughts. One was sort of that we we saw

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Speaker 1: this coming, and by we I mean people um sort

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Speaker 1: of working in the reproductive health area, working at abortion

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Speaker 1: clinics or working for abortion funds. Right like the writing

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Speaker 1: on the wall that row was maybe overturned has been

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Speaker 1: sort of coming to the forefront for a while, especially

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Speaker 1: when you notice like, oh, all of these you know,

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Speaker 1: conservative judges have been like put almost the frame court.

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Speaker 1: Oh all of these states such as Texas are putting

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Speaker 1: out all of these like super strict abortion bands, right,

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Speaker 1: like we can see where this is going. Um. So,

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Speaker 1: on one hand, I sort of like, wow, they're gonna

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Speaker 1: do it, Like I thought that this like worst case scenario,

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Speaker 1: but I just think it was gonna happen, And now

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Speaker 1: sort of like damn, like is this gonna happen? Um?

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Speaker 1: And my thoughts too, is being someone in New York

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Speaker 1: State that you know, a place like New York State

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Speaker 1: is not going to be an abortion even a roguets overturned, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: we live in a very liberal state. We live in

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Speaker 1: a state where abortion rights are you know, written into

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Speaker 1: the law of the state. But what's going to happen

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Speaker 1: is that people living in states such as Texas, people

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Speaker 1: living in the South, people in Ohio where abortion gets

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Speaker 1: spanned federally, if row gets overturned, they're gonna be the

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Speaker 1: ones that suffer, and they're gonna be the one having

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Speaker 1: to travel to places like New York California to get

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Speaker 1: their services, and then what's that's going to happen to

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Speaker 1: people who are already in the state. Right, So, if

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Speaker 1: you were in that situation ten years ago where you

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Speaker 1: needed that abortion, but now you have more people coming

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Speaker 1: from outside of New York State to New York City

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Speaker 1: to get abortions, right now, there's a wait list. Now

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Speaker 1: you can't get that appointment and set quickly. Right, it's

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Speaker 1: gonna be a hit show. And basically it's that we

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Speaker 1: need to change the way that we think about abortion,

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Speaker 1: right because I think right now we think of abortions

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Speaker 1: passing at a separate place, right, We think of an

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Speaker 1: abortion clinic, when in reality, you should be able to

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Speaker 1: go to your on a cologist. You shouldn't have to

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Speaker 1: make an appointment with a separate doctor to get this

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Speaker 1: one procedure done. When you see a doctor already who

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Speaker 1: deals with your you know, reproductive health, you should be

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Speaker 1: able to go there. And so I think hopefully more

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Speaker 1: you know, doctors, more medical students are seeing this change

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Speaker 1: happening and wanting to learn about, you know, to become

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Speaker 1: abortion providers, because I think that's what we really need

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Speaker 1: um as well as you know changing laws to help

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Speaker 1: other healthcare providers such as you know, midwives and nurse

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Speaker 1: midwives be able to do the procedure as well, because

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Speaker 1: they have the skills and the knowledge to do that,

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Speaker 1: but they just don't have the licensing opportunity in some

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Speaker 1: of these states to do that. Oh, that would definitely

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Speaker 1: change the game, is if midwives can do it. Oh

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Speaker 1: my god, right, change a game, change the game. Call

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Speaker 1: your midwives had one at home, like in the privacy

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Speaker 1: you're at home and you're done, like toos game. Because

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Speaker 1: that interview the midwife Florence, she was telling me about

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Speaker 1: how the program when educational and the skills to be

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Speaker 1: able to become a midwife is like very intense. So yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that would be that would be a game changer for sure.

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Speaker 1: Or even the idea that you can just go to

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Speaker 1: your own gynecologists, right, like you see a kind of

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Speaker 1: coologist at least once a year. You get your birth

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Speaker 1: control from them already, you know, if you're someone who

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Speaker 1: has children already, like they might have delivered your baby

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Speaker 1: is right, so they know you. So you can just

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Speaker 1: call that call up your guy. No, go to your

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Speaker 1: doctor's office. You don't have to wait in a waiting

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Speaker 1: room with a bunch of other people, and you can

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Speaker 1: just get this done and leaves exactly. Or get an

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Speaker 1: abortion pill and you know from your doctor and and

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Speaker 1: do the do it at home with the pill. Like,

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Speaker 1: there are many different options, and I think, you know

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Speaker 1: what we need is at this point really like politicians

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Speaker 1: to like get it together and like think about these options,

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Speaker 1: because I think that there's a lot of like medical providers,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of people who do like active as

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Speaker 1: a workforce thinking about this stuff. But the people who

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Speaker 1: can make these changes are the politicians in Albany, and

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Speaker 1: they're in Washington, and they're just not they're just not

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Speaker 1: doing that stuff yet. Yeah. So if I'm not mistaken,

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Speaker 1: if ro versus way was to be overturned, that means

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Speaker 1: at least twenty six states are more than likely likely

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Speaker 1: to ban abortion, right. Yeah, that is overnight. Oh my god,

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Speaker 1: could you imagine. I can't imagine like the idea that

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Speaker 1: like it's just not an option anymore, I think is

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Speaker 1: going to It's gonna have such an effect on people

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Speaker 1: health in general. And when I say health, I mean

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Speaker 1: like their physical health, I mean mental health. Right, Like

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Speaker 1: if you're in a situation, you don't think that you

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Speaker 1: can have a child, and all of a sudden, that's

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Speaker 1: like you have you're being forced to have a child,

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Speaker 1: right Like, if you don't have any money to take

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Speaker 1: care of this kid, if you're in a that just suation,

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Speaker 1: or even if you're not right, even if you know

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Speaker 1: everything in your life is good and you could technically

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Speaker 1: have this kid, but you don't want to, and now

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Speaker 1: you're being forced to, especially in these states where they

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Speaker 1: aren't even taking care of pregnant women in general. Right Like,

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Speaker 1: there's so a lot of these states where abortion will

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Speaker 1: be banned, such as Mississippi, have some of the worst

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Speaker 1: maternal morality rates in the country, So like, you can't

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Speaker 1: even take care of us when we want to have

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Speaker 1: a child, and now you don't want to let us

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Speaker 1: not have a child, right Like, what's going to happen?

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Speaker 1: And it's not even talking about the people that, um

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Speaker 1: that's a part of the marginalized communities that can't for

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Speaker 1: healthcare exactly exactly, or or to afford to travel to

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Speaker 1: get healthcare, because that's what's really going to happen. Right

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Speaker 1: If you're in a state where this gets banned, and

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Speaker 1: you think like you know what, I don't care. I'm

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Speaker 1: going to try and get an abortion. And that means

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Speaker 1: you're gonna have to take off the work, You're gonna

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Speaker 1: have to use a sick day, You're gonna have to travel, drive,

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Speaker 1: get a bus ticket and plane ticket, and you know

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Speaker 1: so many jobs that we would have sick time that

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Speaker 1: we learned over the pandemic. So how's this going to

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Speaker 1: even work for people? And I was just also thinking

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Speaker 1: about imagine how imagine how the the black market of

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Speaker 1: abortions will becoming back or they're probably still here while

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Speaker 1: we know yeah, yeah, I think I think something that

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Speaker 1: will be different though than you know, pre rov Wade, right,

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Speaker 1: Like I think that people have this idea of you know,

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Speaker 1: the coat hanger like back cally abortions, right, But I

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Speaker 1: think the difference is that we're not in the nineties

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Speaker 1: sixties anymore. There's a lot of ways to have a

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Speaker 1: at home abortion that is not as dangerous as those ways.

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Speaker 1: And then one of those ways to buy abortion pills

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Speaker 1: um So those are pills that you take um One

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Speaker 1: is to stop the growth of the pregnancy, the others

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Speaker 1: to expel the pregnancy from your uterus. Those are done

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Speaker 1: safely at home their FDA approved right. And I think

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Speaker 1: what will happen is that people start getting is stilled

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Speaker 1: on the black black market or you know, in the

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Speaker 1: know or soon in a state that can get them

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Speaker 1: will be mailing them to their friend or their cousins

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Speaker 1: who lives in another state. Right So, I think that's

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Speaker 1: going to happen. And on one hand, I'm really great

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Speaker 1: that we do have this medicine, this technology, so we

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Speaker 1: want to see those ideas of people you know, leading

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Speaker 1: out or getting infections and things like that. But the

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Speaker 1: downside is that, like we have these states where those

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Speaker 1: people may be prosecuted for this. Right. So even though

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Speaker 1: it is safer now to have an abortion you know,

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Speaker 1: by yourself or we call it self managed abortion, it's

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Speaker 1: still dangerous in terms of legality, right Like, and what

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Speaker 1: does that mean for you to go to jail for

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Speaker 1: performing your own abortion or you know, someone saying that

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Speaker 1: like maybe it wasn't abortion, maybe you miscarried, but someone

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Speaker 1: who doesn't like you want to want to say that

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Speaker 1: it is an abortion now, so you're caught up in

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Speaker 1: a court case, right Like, what does that need to like,

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Speaker 1: let legalize your body and these natural you know processes, right, child,

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Speaker 1: it's giving handmads too. Right. Oh, it's so scary, right,

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Speaker 1: it's so scary, like and a lot. I just feel

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Speaker 1: like the last thing we need right, especially in this country,

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Speaker 1: is to send any more people into jail, send any

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Speaker 1: more people into prison. Right. So the idea that you

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Speaker 1: can go to prison for having a misscared or you

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Speaker 1: can go to prison for having abortions just outrageous to me.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, I'm telling you, man, the world hate

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Speaker 1: hate women. It's so good because I just never would

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Speaker 1: have thought that we were having this conversation now, right,

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Speaker 1: so scary. So before you begin working at the clinic,

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Speaker 1: where were your thoughts on about abortion? I think before

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Speaker 1: I started working at the clinic, I was pro choice, right,

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Speaker 1: Like I remember, you know fund Reason for Planned Parenthood. Um,

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Speaker 1: I was definitely someone that was like, I'm pro choice,

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Speaker 1: blah blah blah. But I do think I still had

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Speaker 1: like negative associations around abortion, which I think, um, a

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Speaker 1: lot of people do. I think even people who stay

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Speaker 1: there pro choice, they're like, I'm pro choice, but and

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Speaker 1: then after that, but it's like I'm pro choice, but

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Speaker 1: it's only okay if it's a mistake. Right, it's only

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Speaker 1: a case if you get one abortion or it's I'm

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Speaker 1: pro choice, but um, you know, only if it's like,

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Speaker 1: you know, someone's a teenager, or if it's only like

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Speaker 1: a young person, and you know, I think I had

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Speaker 1: these like negative ideas about people who had multiple abortions,

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Speaker 1: or even people who you know had later abortions, like

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Speaker 1: people who you know, for whatever reason, have abortions, you know,

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Speaker 1: after the first trimester. I think that I just had

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Speaker 1: um like judgments around that, And I think that comes

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Speaker 1: from abortion stigma, from people not talking about the procedure itself. Um.

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Speaker 1: And then I think too, I just sort of was

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Speaker 1: uninformed and I just didn't really understand not just about abortion,

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Speaker 1: but like pregnancy and my own body in general. Like

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Speaker 1: I didn't understand that, like you know, if you're pregnant

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Speaker 1: for the first time and you've never been pregnant before it,

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Speaker 1: you might not even notice pregnancy symptoms because there's some

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Speaker 1: similar to other things, right when I tell you, like,

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Speaker 1: but you we haven't like physically meant, but like I

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Speaker 1: looked like how I look now when I was pregnant

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Speaker 1: and I was pregnant, and I didn't know because I

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Speaker 1: was in school in my n b A, I was

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Speaker 1: a caretaking from my grandma at the time, who had

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Speaker 1: all the times, and I was working a full time job.

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Speaker 1: So when I tell you, I didn't know what was

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Speaker 1: going on because I thought I was just the funk out.

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Speaker 1: You're sat your stress right right, right, Like you were

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Speaker 1: probably tired, and you're like, oh, I'm tired because I'm

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Speaker 1: doing three all these work right, And you're probably like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I'm nauseous, but maybe that was the bad food I ate, right,

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Speaker 1: or you said car sickness, right, So, like all of

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Speaker 1: these things can happen in your life and then all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden, you know might be in your You

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Speaker 1: might just don't know, right, And there's that show I

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Speaker 1: didn't even know I was pregnant. And I know some

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Speaker 1: of those seem outrageous, but like it is true, right,

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Speaker 1: Like even with pregnancy, some people get stick and they

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Speaker 1: think they have the flu, right, And if you aren't,

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Speaker 1: like especially people who are on birth control, you don't

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Speaker 1: even think that you're pregnant because you're like, I take

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Speaker 1: my full every day. Or people who have, you know,

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Speaker 1: irregular periods, they might not notice that I have missed

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Speaker 1: my period. Because I always missed my period exactly exactly.

399
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Speaker 1: Wait on that show, I didn't know I was pregnant.

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Speaker 1: Did you say that black woman who thought she had

401
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Speaker 1: to take the ship and I'm giving birth to her

402
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Speaker 1: baby in the toilet? Oh my god. No, but that's

403
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Speaker 1: wild enough TV. I'm sorry. I can't imagine that situation.

404
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:06,159
Speaker 1: Is like you went to the bathroom to go to

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Speaker 1: the bathroom, and then also you got a baby. You

406
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Speaker 1: take Canadon's baby. I was like, if you look at

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Speaker 1: this baby have to come out. I was like, can't deserve,

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Speaker 1: Like can I give this baby to somebody? Like this

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Speaker 1: is yeah? Was constipating? No, girl, that was contractions. Yeah. Wild.

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Speaker 1: So do you think that some people use abortions as

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Speaker 1: birth controls? So the answer I would say is yeah,

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Speaker 1: I do think there are some people who do that,

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Speaker 1: and and I think previous to working at a clinic

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Speaker 1: I had, I was very judgmental about that fact. I

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Speaker 1: was just sort of like, why would you do this?

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Speaker 1: This should be only used one time, blah blah blah um.

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Speaker 1: But more I think about it, it's sort of that

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Speaker 1: like if you right, like the person Torol, we have

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Speaker 1: now is to prevent me from being pretast. Abortion is

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Speaker 1: a tres of pregnancy to prevent you from becoming a parent. Um.

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Speaker 1: All of the very control methods that we have are

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Speaker 1: none of them are hundred percent effective other than abstinence,

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Speaker 1: and they're not that many people who are grown up

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Speaker 1: who are one percent absent for the rest of their

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Speaker 1: lives or one percent abstinent until the moment they decide

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Speaker 1: they want to have a child. So while I think

427
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:27,240
Speaker 1: that people who use abortion as birth control definitely rare,

428
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:30,760
Speaker 1: just because the fact that abortion is expensive, abortion isn't

429
00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:33,679
Speaker 1: always covered by your insurance right, so for someone to

430
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:37,920
Speaker 1: use that consistently consistently as birth control, people aren't doing

431
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:42,560
Speaker 1: that right. Um. But I do think the idea of

432
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:48,199
Speaker 1: abortion as birth control shouldn't be as stigmatized as it is.

433
00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:53,040
Speaker 1: Because abortion is one prevents you from becoming a parent.

434
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:57,080
Speaker 1: No birth control options that we have, including io d s,

435
00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:01,439
Speaker 1: including the pill, including condoms, will hundred percent prevent you

436
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:07,080
Speaker 1: from becoming pregnant. UM. So I think also people in

437
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:10,879
Speaker 1: those situations are usually more marginalized folks who don't have

438
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:14,240
Speaker 1: access to birth control either on the regular, whether that's

439
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:17,639
Speaker 1: because they don't have health insurance or they're undocumented and

440
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:20,119
Speaker 1: they don't feel comfortable going to the doctor. Right, They

441
00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:22,919
Speaker 1: don't know, you know, they might not have ideas or

442
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:28,320
Speaker 1: proper things like that, whether they're sex workers or or

443
00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:32,600
Speaker 1: they're young as hell or oftentimes sometimes it's people who

444
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:37,359
Speaker 1: um in my experience of working at the clinics, oftentimes

445
00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:41,160
Speaker 1: the people who would see for like repeat abortions or

446
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:45,639
Speaker 1: people we thought maybe using abortion as first control. Oftentimes

447
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:49,440
Speaker 1: we're not necessarily the young folks, but the folks who

448
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:55,399
Speaker 1: were homeless, or folks who were you know, addicted to substances, right,

449
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:59,879
Speaker 1: people who are not who don't have the options either

450
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:02,679
Speaker 1: you know, because of their mental health or if they

451
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:06,440
Speaker 1: don't really have the capacity to like make doctor's appointments

452
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:10,480
Speaker 1: or keep doctor's appointments, or the resources or like the

453
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 1: idealer like remembering to take like a medication all the time.

454
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 1: They might not have a safe place to even store

455
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 1: their meds. Right. So those are the types of people

456
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:22,160
Speaker 1: that we saw often, and those people deserve the same

457
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:25,200
Speaker 1: type of care as the rest of us. UM. So

458
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:28,400
Speaker 1: that is definitely something that opened my eyes. Yeah, how

459
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 1: many times can a person get an abortion? Like does

460
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:33,639
Speaker 1: a clinic like cut you off a certain time or

461
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:39,919
Speaker 1: like no, so the clinic wouldn't ever like cut or

462
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:44,920
Speaker 1: like yeah, so I think. Um, so there's like two

463
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:49,960
Speaker 1: answers to that, like how many times seeing an abortion? Uh? Honestly,

464
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:54,679
Speaker 1: like within like one year, like your body should always

465
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:58,720
Speaker 1: probably get Like I've seen people who have had more

466
00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 1: than one abortion in the year. Um, because it happens,

467
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:05,240
Speaker 1: because you can get pregnant more than one time in

468
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:09,719
Speaker 1: a year. Um. Often people don't. Um. But what happens

469
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:12,640
Speaker 1: sometimes is that if we do notice someone who has

470
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 1: been here quite often or has had a number of procedures,

471
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 1: we may do sort of like longer in death counseling

472
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 1: on sort of trying to sort of figure out like

473
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:27,240
Speaker 1: we have never denied someone care. But sometimes like those

474
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 1: things are indications of other things happening in your life, right,

475
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:33,439
Speaker 1: so what's going on? Right? Like, so we may be like,

476
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:37,440
Speaker 1: are you, um, you know, are you able to take

477
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:39,959
Speaker 1: first control? Are you not? Like is this something that

478
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:44,080
Speaker 1: like your body doesn't allow or is someone you know

479
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:47,600
Speaker 1: outside you know, campering with your birth control? Because that

480
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:50,359
Speaker 1: is a thing, right, Like some people's partners don't allow

481
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:53,720
Speaker 1: them to take birth control or very coercive or you know,

482
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:56,879
Speaker 1: our poking holes and condoms, right, Um, are you in

483
00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:00,440
Speaker 1: a situation where you need you know, you have the

484
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:05,359
Speaker 1: sex exactly. Are you in a situation where you need, um,

485
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 1: you know, healthcare? Are you someone who like you need

486
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:10,719
Speaker 1: health insurance to help you get birth control? Do you

487
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:14,359
Speaker 1: need you know? And so those types of things, UM,

488
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:17,119
Speaker 1: definitely at our clinics that the counselors that we have

489
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:19,639
Speaker 1: on staff would look at um to try and just

490
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:22,199
Speaker 1: referrals and just sort of see what's going on in

491
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 1: that person's life. Yeah, you know, I was about to

492
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 1: ask you, Um, do you think that birth control and

493
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:31,679
Speaker 1: conducts are just not effective enough for some people? I

494
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:36,720
Speaker 1: think yes, Well, let me just repeat this. I think

495
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:40,520
Speaker 1: that I think a lot of I think birth control

496
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 1: is effective when it's taken the right way. I don't

497
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:46,719
Speaker 1: think that people take birth control the right way right

498
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:49,200
Speaker 1: the idea, especially with the pill, it's not that you

499
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 1: have to take it every day. You have to take

500
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:55,400
Speaker 1: it every day at the time the same time. And

501
00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:58,320
Speaker 1: it's like you think about each pill has a twenty

502
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 1: four hour dough of the hormones you need to prevent pregnancy.

503
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:05,520
Speaker 1: If you take it again on that twenty six hour

504
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:09,440
Speaker 1: you now you have a two hour window where you

505
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 1: could have gotten pregnant, right. Um. But I also think

506
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 1: that for some people, these side effects to the birth control,

507
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 1: especially formonal birth control, can be really can really affect

508
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 1: people really harmfully. And I think as women, because we're

509
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 1: the ones who take this hormonal birth control, a lot

510
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 1: of times, we just sort of stuck it up and

511
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:31,920
Speaker 1: deal with it. That's the idea that like, you know,

512
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 1: you can get blood closs and birth control. I've seen

513
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:37,720
Speaker 1: you know, patients who have had you know, DVT, like

514
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 1: you know, blood cloths in their lungs like because of

515
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 1: their birth control UM or things like you know, even

516
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 1: stuff like the headaches you get, the weight game you get.

517
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 1: Some people don't even want to deal with that, And

518
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 1: so I think there is there are some people who

519
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:55,400
Speaker 1: just don't want to take hormonal birth control. And the

520
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 1: same thing with you know, condom use. I think a

521
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 1: lot of people who are especially people who are married

522
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:04,960
Speaker 1: and or in like long term relationships, they're not using

523
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 1: condoms on the regular. UM. So what I do think

524
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 1: is that like if we ever get male birth control,

525
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 1: god will is which we need, I think that would

526
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:19,959
Speaker 1: change the game a lot for people. UM and I

527
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 1: do think too, it is just like having more decentral

528
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 1: options and all they're just being able to like teach

529
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:30,440
Speaker 1: people about their fertility and their menstrual cycles will help

530
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 1: a lot, right, A lot of people think that you

531
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 1: can get pregnant anytime, you know, just just whatever. You

532
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:39,360
Speaker 1: can't write, it's when you obulate, it's when you release

533
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,480
Speaker 1: an egg. So I think just having in depth um

534
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 1: sex ad like that, like teaching people about their own

535
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 1: cycles and how to track their bodies, that can also

536
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 1: you know, really change the games for people. And I

537
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,360
Speaker 1: feel like, unfortunately, because of the world that we live in,

538
00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:57,840
Speaker 1: especially with social media, I think that we have we

539
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 1: might have to start teaching them at a younger age. Yes, yes,

540
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 1: and I think yes, I think teaching people at a

541
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:08,120
Speaker 1: younger age. But I also believe in like, you know,

542
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 1: having sex AD that is age appropriate, right, Like, so

543
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 1: if you're in the fifth grade, you might not need

544
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 1: to know everything as someone who's in high school. But

545
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 1: there are things that you can start teaching younger kids,

546
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:24,560
Speaker 1: especially around things like consent um and things about like

547
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 1: you know, even simple things like even with like kindergarteners,

548
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,880
Speaker 1: to teach kindergarteners what's about consent? You let them know that,

549
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 1: right If someone wants to hug you and you don't

550
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 1: want to hug them, you don't have to hug them, right,

551
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,200
Speaker 1: Like this is letting people know that they're in control

552
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 1: of their bodies and just slowly introducing you know, health

553
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:46,200
Speaker 1: tax and health things about their own bodies to help,

554
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:49,200
Speaker 1: you know, spread that knowledge. I think when people think

555
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 1: about sex ad, they automatically what I think about, like

556
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 1: teaching kids how to use condoms, And I think that's great,

557
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 1: and I think you need to teach, you know, people

558
00:31:57,800 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 1: how to use condoms. But I do think that, like,

559
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 1: we're not going to teach a fourth grader that information,

560
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:06,239
Speaker 1: right whereas there are better age appropriate things we can

561
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 1: teach that fourth grader. And so by the time that

562
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 1: fourth grader is in you know, eighth grade, tenth grade

563
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 1: learning about contest and getting that like full more knowledge,

564
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:19,240
Speaker 1: they're able to build on top of the things that

565
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:23,440
Speaker 1: they already knew. So I'm not to start building on

566
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 1: top of it. I totally agree with that, because I

567
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 1: know Bob before I teach them. But I also remember,

568
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 1: you know, being in college and getting like, I don't

569
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 1: know if this happened that at your college. But I remember, um,

570
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 1: during like the first week like that orientation, we had

571
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:44,840
Speaker 1: this consent workshop and stuff. I remember sitting there and

572
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 1: being like, oh, I'm so glad. I like I knew

573
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:49,239
Speaker 1: this stuff in high school, right, But then there are

574
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:51,239
Speaker 1: people in that college who this is the first time

575
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 1: I ever caring about like consent or about like no

576
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 1: means no, things like that. And so we do need

577
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:00,040
Speaker 1: to start teaching this stuff younger so that by the

578
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:03,080
Speaker 1: time people are eighteen, they already got it, like they

579
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:06,320
Speaker 1: already know and they understand this. Yeah, I agree. And

580
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 1: I also felt like, um, you made a good point

581
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:11,719
Speaker 1: about revamping sex and because I feel like when I

582
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:13,880
Speaker 1: was in sex and first of all, I don't even

583
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 1: remember sex and I don't even think we had sex.

584
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:17,960
Speaker 1: And but I think they showed us a movie about kids.

585
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 1: You ever heard the movie Kids? Yes, Yes, that's like

586
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 1: like this isn't where they get like, h yes, that

587
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 1: was not the right movie the show came not because

588
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:38,040
Speaker 1: I feel like you're right the girl that was like,

589
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 1: it was so many factors in that one movie that

590
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:42,920
Speaker 1: was just like what the funk I got was watching

591
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:45,440
Speaker 1: the class and I think I was in like seven

592
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:51,120
Speaker 1: or eight grade. I feel like so much health education,

593
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 1: like not just sex, but even like education about like

594
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:58,480
Speaker 1: drugs and alcohol are so fear being, right, Like I

595
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:01,000
Speaker 1: can barely remember the sex and that I have, but

596
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:03,720
Speaker 1: I remember all the like anti drug stuff I had,

597
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 1: and it's always so extreme, so fear based. And it's like, now,

598
00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:10,960
Speaker 1: you don't need to scare people out of these things, right,

599
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 1: like just give them the facts, like teach people about

600
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:18,480
Speaker 1: their body is about others about you know, the effects

601
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 1: of drugs, right, Like I don't think we should be

602
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 1: like sugarcoating things like drink all off all you want.

603
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:26,760
Speaker 1: Do you think you need to like be honest about

604
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:29,440
Speaker 1: those things like how are young and if you don't

605
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:33,920
Speaker 1: if you go about or that way, because how are

606
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:36,399
Speaker 1: you going to have such like extreme you know, like

607
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:39,839
Speaker 1: you know, alcohol education whatever. And then the kid goes

608
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:42,879
Speaker 1: home and it's like, oh my, my mom's wine every day,

609
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:45,040
Speaker 1: but you're telling me that if I drink a glass

610
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 1: of wine and I'm a die, right, like make it

611
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 1: make sense? Right, And that's when black moms be like

612
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:56,719
Speaker 1: do as I say and not as I do. Yeah,

613
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:01,239
Speaker 1: my class and wine. Oh I'm just gonna be such

614
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:03,440
Speaker 1: a good conversation because I hadn't even started with the questions,

615
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:09,440
Speaker 1: you know, okay, okay, okay, So how long were you

616
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:12,799
Speaker 1: working at the clinic? I was there for about three

617
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,880
Speaker 1: and a half years. Um, so at started in twenties,

618
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:19,480
Speaker 1: are actually three years? I started in twenty fifteen. I

619
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:23,360
Speaker 1: stopped working in I'm just curious, how did you like?

620
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:25,880
Speaker 1: What made you go into this industry? But she was

621
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:30,640
Speaker 1: already volunteer, right, So yeah, So actually this is sort

622
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:34,360
Speaker 1: of a so the clinic I worked at. So I

623
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:37,279
Speaker 1: worked at the independent clinic. So there's when someone thinks

624
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:40,080
Speaker 1: about abortion line based on like two different things they

625
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 1: think of. So there's either like time parenthood, which was

626
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 1: like a chain it's the nationally you know, organized, you know,

627
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:50,799
Speaker 1: group of people. And then they're like independent clinic where

628
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:54,520
Speaker 1: it's usually one doctor. It's the private doctor's office, right,

629
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:58,320
Speaker 1: And so that's where I worked, um for just one doctor.

630
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 1: But the place they worked not only did they offer

631
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:05,360
Speaker 1: abortion services, they also offered you know, regular G y

632
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:08,840
Speaker 1: N care and they also opened a natural birthing center.

633
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:13,160
Speaker 1: So when I what I was first interested in was

634
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:15,000
Speaker 1: I really wanted to become a doula. I really wanted

635
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 1: to become a birth doula, and I thought that working

636
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:21,040
Speaker 1: there would give me just sort of like the connections

637
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:23,640
Speaker 1: I needed to like get my doula training and also

638
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:26,080
Speaker 1: just sort of like being a place where like such

639
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 1: different reproductive options were taking place. I saw online one

640
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 1: day that they were hiring. I wrote this like really

641
00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 1: long cover letter about like why I wanted to be

642
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:40,879
Speaker 1: a Do I know why I was interested in working there,

643
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 1: like all this stuff. UM. So I came in for

644
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:46,760
Speaker 1: an interview. UM. I think I had a phone interview,

645
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:48,560
Speaker 1: and then I had an in person interview, and then

646
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:53,800
Speaker 1: I was tired. Um. And so that's my how I

647
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:58,719
Speaker 1: ended up in the industry. UM, but very quickly sort

648
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:02,680
Speaker 1: of shifted the work that I was doing from sort

649
00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:05,759
Speaker 1: of more of the birth um in duel a work

650
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:10,720
Speaker 1: into sort of abortion care. UM. Just sort of because

651
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:13,279
Speaker 1: of like one was like the because of the needs

652
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:15,080
Speaker 1: of the business. It was the sort of more like

653
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:17,480
Speaker 1: we need you to do this stuff and like answer

654
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:19,680
Speaker 1: the phones and do this. But then the longer I

655
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:22,360
Speaker 1: worked there, I did sort of pivot into abortion counseling

656
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:24,759
Speaker 1: and option counseling. Just so that's sort of what I

657
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:31,240
Speaker 1: found more interesting to do. So for New York State,

658
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:33,880
Speaker 1: abortion is legal to twenty four weeks of just station,

659
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:36,400
Speaker 1: So how long did the patient have to receive an

660
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:39,360
Speaker 1: abortion at the clinic you worked at? So it's the

661
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 1: place I worked at, um, this is this is where

662
00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:47,680
Speaker 1: he because it's the private doctor's office. UM. A lot

663
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:49,839
Speaker 1: of choices are just left up to the doctor. So

664
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:52,800
Speaker 1: I would say that we would schedule people up to

665
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 1: eighteen weeks. If phone was past eighteen weeks, UM, we

666
00:37:57,239 --> 00:38:00,319
Speaker 1: would send them in for our consultation, and a doctor

667
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:02,760
Speaker 1: would take those cases on a case by case basis

668
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:06,879
Speaker 1: to the longest sort of into the pregnancy. I think

669
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 1: I've seen was about twenty twenty one week, but the

670
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:15,320
Speaker 1: doctor did UM. But oftentimes people who were past eighteen

671
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:17,840
Speaker 1: weeks or past nineteen weeks, we would refer them to

672
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:20,600
Speaker 1: other clinics in New York State, UM, just because their

673
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:23,759
Speaker 1: doctor just like you know, case by case basis. But

674
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 1: oftentimes she didn't feel comfortable doing procedures past that point,

675
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:30,759
Speaker 1: UM just because what's the options that we had UM

676
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 1: at the clinic oftentimes was later pregnancy abortions like do

677
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:37,880
Speaker 1: you want do you want more anesthesia? You just want

678
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:41,200
Speaker 1: like a different type of environment to have that procedure

679
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:44,200
Speaker 1: and if we didn't really offer that. Now, un listen,

680
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 1: I want to know what happens to the feat is

681
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:53,560
Speaker 1: after a procedure? Oh okay, um question? Yeah my girl,

682
00:38:55,480 --> 00:39:00,560
Speaker 1: So what happens after the procedure um is? Want? Okay,

683
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:06,960
Speaker 1: form me a graphic graphics. But I am speaking about

684
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 1: this because I feel like a lot of people never

685
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:11,239
Speaker 1: experienced this, and I do feel like if you're not

686
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:13,000
Speaker 1: a researcher, or if you just don't know him by

687
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:16,120
Speaker 1: who experienced this and you believe everything you see a read, yeah,

688
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:19,520
Speaker 1: I think guess where you bring the clarity in play? What?

689
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:23,719
Speaker 1: So I guess what happens to I would say nineties

690
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 1: nine percent of the fetis is after the procedure at

691
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:31,320
Speaker 1: the procedure um the fetis and also like the uterine

692
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:34,520
Speaker 1: content sort of get a nurse will take it to

693
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:38,400
Speaker 1: the back where they basically look to find a gestational

694
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:41,440
Speaker 1: stack and that it's sort of like the second that

695
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 1: just make sure that the doctor performing the abortion did

696
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 1: perform the abortion. Right, So when you see would take

697
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 1: that look under under a microscope, see that sax see like, okay,

698
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:55,520
Speaker 1: we got the pregnancy um and then those fetis since

699
00:39:55,600 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 1: the gestational stack UM, the uterine content would get placed UM.

700
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:04,040
Speaker 1: I don't really remember what it's called, but basically, all

701
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:06,799
Speaker 1: the stuff gets all of the stuff from there, All

702
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:10,520
Speaker 1: of the feenises get placed in this jar. UM. We

703
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:14,479
Speaker 1: have a medical waste company that comes and picks up

704
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:17,600
Speaker 1: everything once a week. And so they come and they

705
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:21,280
Speaker 1: put it up in a box and then that gets incinerated.

706
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:24,200
Speaker 1: So they all get cremated, they get burned, they get

707
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 1: disposed of UM. And the reason I said is because

708
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:34,919
Speaker 1: sometimes we would have cases where feel remains were then

709
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:40,040
Speaker 1: saved to go to law enforcement UM. And those are

710
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:43,239
Speaker 1: in cases where if the pregnancy was the result of

711
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:47,280
Speaker 1: rape and the patient was you know, pursuing a case

712
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:51,840
Speaker 1: against the rapists, those feet remains, those are evidence, those

713
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:54,839
Speaker 1: are DNA evidence. So we would UM, the same thing

714
00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:57,040
Speaker 1: happens where the nurse takes the checks, make sure the

715
00:40:57,080 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 1: destinational sack is go on on. But then those get placed up.

716
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:01,719
Speaker 1: They get foxed up in a separate thing and they

717
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:07,040
Speaker 1: get placed in a special you know, medical friends with

718
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:09,759
Speaker 1: a lock on it so that we preserve the chain

719
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:12,440
Speaker 1: of custody. And then we wait for the police officers

720
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:16,080
Speaker 1: to come and take the evidence away. UM. And then

721
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:20,440
Speaker 1: I would also say a very smaller percent, maybe like

722
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:25,960
Speaker 1: point five percent. UM. Sometimes patients who wanted to either

723
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:29,399
Speaker 1: have a burial or cremation or do something like that,

724
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:34,600
Speaker 1: we would then sometimes UM again sort of preserve the

725
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:39,560
Speaker 1: funeral remains and have UM a funeral home come and

726
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:42,759
Speaker 1: pick up the remains. So either way, yeah, so that

727
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:47,520
Speaker 1: did happen a couple of times. UM. Either way, it's like, UM,

728
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:51,920
Speaker 1: technically medical waste, So we can't you know, give the

729
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:54,400
Speaker 1: funeral remains back to the patient or the family, like

730
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:57,479
Speaker 1: especially in New York State, it has to be someone

731
00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:00,919
Speaker 1: who's like clear to handle those contents. So the three

732
00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:04,440
Speaker 1: places they would go is like the three places they

733
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:06,520
Speaker 1: would go and be like the medical waste company and

734
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:10,880
Speaker 1: then they get incinerated UM either the police UM or

735
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:14,920
Speaker 1: law enforcement for evidence UM or sometimes the funeral homes

736
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:18,000
Speaker 1: for you know, some patients wanted to do a cremation

737
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:21,120
Speaker 1: or just like have some type of service for themselves.

738
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:26,720
Speaker 1: How many abortions would you say were raped abuse cases.

739
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:33,839
Speaker 1: That's a tricky question because it's like, on one hand,

740
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:36,960
Speaker 1: it's like how many of them are rape abuse cases?

741
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:41,239
Speaker 1: Where they are pursuing, right, like who who they let

742
00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:45,279
Speaker 1: us know? Um when they call ahead? Right. Because there's

743
00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:47,799
Speaker 1: some cases, like I said, like where we do give

744
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:50,839
Speaker 1: the evidence to the police officers. And then there's oftentimes

745
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:56,400
Speaker 1: that people in those counseling rooms then just like let

746
00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:58,400
Speaker 1: us know that like this is a result of race,

747
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:01,279
Speaker 1: or this is a result of abuse. Um. And then

748
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:06,440
Speaker 1: there's some cases too because we are mandated reporters that

749
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:08,759
Speaker 1: if we're dealing with someone who's under the v T,

750
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:10,959
Speaker 1: and we do have to ask these questions to find out,

751
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:14,480
Speaker 1: you know, is this a case of abuse or neglect

752
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:20,880
Speaker 1: or was something you know not not right about the situation? Um.

753
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:25,880
Speaker 1: I don't think it's as many let me rephrase that.

754
00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 1: I think that I think there's a lot of coercion

755
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:37,239
Speaker 1: um attempts, And I think that there's a lot more

756
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:42,000
Speaker 1: of non consensual sex happening than even the teachings themselves

757
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:45,080
Speaker 1: would notice, right. And I and it's hard to be

758
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:47,920
Speaker 1: the councilor in those rooms, right listening to someone about

759
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:51,719
Speaker 1: how they got pregnant, and while they're telling it just

760
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:53,680
Speaker 1: like as a story about how they got pregnant, and

761
00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:57,320
Speaker 1: there may be noticing like saying things about how trumps

762
00:43:57,360 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 1: they were and how they didn't realize they were having sex,

763
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:02,600
Speaker 1: or they might they might not know who the father

764
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:06,279
Speaker 1: of this baby is because they don't remember having sex. Right.

765
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:09,160
Speaker 1: And so for me as the counselor, that's that's like,

766
00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:12,400
Speaker 1: that's like ing ding ding, that's an assault, right. But

767
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:14,160
Speaker 1: for the patients they might not even think that. They

768
00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:17,920
Speaker 1: might just be like, oh, I was just starting or whatever. Yea.

769
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:21,120
Speaker 1: So sometimes, depending on the situation, I would just let

770
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:24,719
Speaker 1: them know that like what you're describing like sounds like

771
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:27,600
Speaker 1: sexual assault, Like would you like us to contact this,

772
00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:31,480
Speaker 1: would you like us to give you, um, you know,

773
00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:36,680
Speaker 1: crisis services information? Sometimes people would take it, sometimes people wouldn't. UM.

774
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:41,200
Speaker 1: And then I think there's two a lot of a

775
00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:44,279
Speaker 1: lot of shame around sexual assault too, And so I

776
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:47,640
Speaker 1: think there's many cases of sexual assaults are or abuse

777
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:50,600
Speaker 1: that we never knew about because the patient would just

778
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:54,239
Speaker 1: not tell us. UM. And I think to sometimes as

779
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:56,359
Speaker 1: those you know, we talked about this earlier, about those

780
00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:59,239
Speaker 1: sort of repeat cases, I think sometimes a lot of

781
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:03,400
Speaker 1: that is a abuse cases. UM. And I do remember,

782
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:06,120
Speaker 1: you know, before I was a counselor of just sort

783
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:09,280
Speaker 1: of answering the phone and scheduling appointments. There were times

784
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:13,640
Speaker 1: where I would you know, call or pick up the

785
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:16,560
Speaker 1: phone to talk to someone and then wanting an appointment

786
00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:19,839
Speaker 1: right away, and I was asking why and them being like, oh,

787
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:21,840
Speaker 1: because my husband's out of cow that day and I

788
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:24,360
Speaker 1: can get one and I'll be fine. Right. There's a

789
00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:28,680
Speaker 1: lot of you know, interpersonal abuse that it's just not

790
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:31,879
Speaker 1: spoken of until you get in these situations and then

791
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:33,799
Speaker 1: sort of like being the person on the other end

792
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:38,600
Speaker 1: of the phone. I've heard a lot of stories I've had,

793
00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:41,680
Speaker 1: you know, patients calling us from you know, closets, like

794
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:43,799
Speaker 1: not wanting to let anyone else in the house know

795
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:47,640
Speaker 1: that they were PREGNANTID not to cut you off. I

796
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:50,920
Speaker 1: can tell you're like reminiscent about this. I am right,

797
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 1: like because it's like, yeah, because I think too sometimes

798
00:45:55,880 --> 00:46:00,320
Speaker 1: I I'm myself and just sort of a very little

799
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:04,520
Speaker 1: empathetic person, right. I feel a lot of things um

800
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:06,439
Speaker 1: At the same time, it does really make me feel

801
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:10,240
Speaker 1: angry because, especially around abortion stigma and then the stigma

802
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:13,000
Speaker 1: we have around sexual assault, is that the women who

803
00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:15,440
Speaker 1: are the victims in these situations get all of the

804
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:18,160
Speaker 1: stigma and the blame put upon them. And these men

805
00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:20,960
Speaker 1: that do these acts on them youtn't get to walk

806
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:25,600
Speaker 1: away scot free, right um or even it's not scott free, right,

807
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:27,279
Speaker 1: like even if something is happening, like they don't have

808
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:29,040
Speaker 1: to deal with the stigma. And then you know, have

809
00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:33,560
Speaker 1: being pregnant and like having to end the pregnancy. Um.

810
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:36,200
Speaker 1: So I think like speaking about abuse and things like that,

811
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:40,920
Speaker 1: like that stuff happened, and you know, I think you know,

812
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:44,480
Speaker 1: even to like having to see or deal with, you know,

813
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:49,600
Speaker 1: young kids who were pregnant, um and having to sort

814
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:53,799
Speaker 1: of figure out like are you pregnant because you're young

815
00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:55,799
Speaker 1: and you're like hucking up with somebody else who're young

816
00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:58,400
Speaker 1: and you're just like messing around, or just someone do

817
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:01,239
Speaker 1: this to you? Right? Was there an involved? And I

818
00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:03,759
Speaker 1: think even in those cases it's really tricky and like

819
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:08,160
Speaker 1: learning how to speak to the patient in a way

820
00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:11,200
Speaker 1: to get that information without making it feel that they're

821
00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:14,759
Speaker 1: in trouble with such a special sale that had to

822
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:17,279
Speaker 1: be learned, right because the moment you sort of talk,

823
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:19,879
Speaker 1: especially like you're talking to like a fourteen year old

824
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:21,960
Speaker 1: a thirteen year old, the moment that they think they're

825
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:24,040
Speaker 1: in trouble or something they're gonna shut up, they're gonna

826
00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:28,360
Speaker 1: tell you anything, like exactly, but it's just like making

827
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:31,080
Speaker 1: sure that they feel and know that like they're in

828
00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:33,719
Speaker 1: a safe space they can talk about this and that

829
00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:36,640
Speaker 1: like this isn't on you and we're not making you.

830
00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:39,000
Speaker 1: You know, you're not in trouble, just like let us

831
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:41,719
Speaker 1: know what happened. That's you know, how you can get

832
00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:46,040
Speaker 1: that information. This concludes part one of this week's episode.

833
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:49,279
Speaker 1: If you have any questions, comment archessains, please make sure

834
00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:52,520
Speaker 1: to email me a hello at the PhD podcast dot com.

835
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:54,680
Speaker 1: Until next time, everyone Later,