WEBVTT - Note-worthy Chat with Alex Patsavas 0:00:01.720 --> 0:00:04.440 And that's what you really missed with Jenna. 0:00:04.440 --> 0:00:07.080 And Kevin an iHeartRadio podcast. 0:00:09.080 --> 0:00:11.200 Welcome to you, and that's what you really miss podcast. 0:00:11.360 --> 0:00:15.280 We have a very special guest today, Alex Pittsavas very 0:00:15.480 --> 0:00:16.720 Are you so excited? Kevin? 0:00:17.400 --> 0:00:24.680 Jenna Alex literally has shaped our world. No, truly, she 0:00:24.800 --> 0:00:28.080 has shaped it as a music supervisor. Well she tells, 0:00:28.120 --> 0:00:31.280 she breaks it down also like sort of the unknown 0:00:31.360 --> 0:00:35.199 world of what music supervision is and how all of 0:00:35.280 --> 0:00:40.280 us have been directly I impacted by it, our entire lives, 0:00:40.440 --> 0:00:42.720 and yeah, it's specifically impacted by her. 0:00:42.920 --> 0:00:45.279 And also like I will say, like I don't think 0:00:45.320 --> 0:00:47.760 I unbeknownst to me, like a lot of the way 0:00:47.800 --> 0:00:50.320 that I consume music is through film and TV mm 0:00:50.400 --> 0:00:53.480 hm and not you know, turning yeah, of course turning 0:00:53.520 --> 0:00:55.240 on the radio or not even in these days. But 0:00:55.320 --> 0:00:58.080 like the way I used to be influenced by music 0:00:58.240 --> 0:01:00.760 was what I was watching and what I was seeing. 0:01:00.880 --> 0:01:04.600 And so this is so she really did shape the 0:01:04.640 --> 0:01:07.200 way that we or had her hand in shaping the 0:01:07.240 --> 0:01:11.240 way that a lot of us were consuming new artists, 0:01:11.319 --> 0:01:11.880 new music. 0:01:12.959 --> 0:01:14.759 And even like how you said, you know, there's other 0:01:14.800 --> 0:01:17.800 ways to listen, like the radio. I it's so good 0:01:17.800 --> 0:01:22.880 at her job that she so many times has influenced 0:01:22.920 --> 0:01:25.560 what's played on the radio. Yeah, it's getting played on 0:01:25.600 --> 0:01:27.920 the radio because she has such a gift at matching 0:01:28.000 --> 0:01:31.640 up song with story. Yes, and then therefore we're all 0:01:31.680 --> 0:01:34.480 obsessed with it because we're no longer just hearing a 0:01:34.520 --> 0:01:37.839 song out of context. We're hearing a song in context 0:01:37.840 --> 0:01:42.240 and related to an emotional story moment, and whether it's 0:01:42.280 --> 0:01:46.720 in like gossip Girl or Bridgerton or Riverdale or OC 0:01:47.080 --> 0:01:51.920 or the Twilight films or Scandal or the Hunger Game soundtracks. 0:01:51.960 --> 0:01:57.440 Like she has done it all, literally everything. Wow, I 0:01:57.600 --> 0:02:01.000 just anyway, I enjoyed it. We can't tally really enjoyed 0:02:01.000 --> 0:02:01.640 this conversation. 0:02:01.800 --> 0:02:03.320 So yeah, I know it's really great. 0:02:03.800 --> 0:02:08.400 Strap in get ready to hear just a wonderful breadth 0:02:08.400 --> 0:02:10.720 of knowledge and a career from Alexford's office. 0:02:11.240 --> 0:02:15.600 Hi, Hello are you? I'm good? How are you good? 0:02:16.720 --> 0:02:19.200 We are? We feel very lucky that you agreed to 0:02:19.360 --> 0:02:20.320 talk to us. 0:02:21.520 --> 0:02:26.640 Come on, no, no, no, no no, because you know, 0:02:26.840 --> 0:02:30.880 I feel like we talk to people who are in 0:02:30.919 --> 0:02:32.440 our position a lot, right. 0:02:33.080 --> 0:02:34.880 We don't get your perspective. 0:02:34.919 --> 0:02:38.160 You're the taste maker, really like you are the. 0:02:41.639 --> 0:02:45.239 Well, that's very flattering. Thank you, thank you, thank you. 0:02:45.680 --> 0:02:47.280 So are you guys here in LA? 0:02:47.400 --> 0:02:48.920 Yeah, I'm in New York. 0:02:49.120 --> 0:02:49.799 You're in New York. 0:02:50.160 --> 0:02:53.240 Yes, New York as amazing two and a half months ago. 0:02:53.440 --> 0:02:54.520 Oh gosh, you just moved. 0:02:54.840 --> 0:02:56.200 Yeah, but I've been in LA for I was in 0:02:56.320 --> 0:02:57.440 LA for twenty three years. 0:02:58.360 --> 0:03:05.800 So no, I'm not in from Chicago. There's also a 0:03:05.800 --> 0:03:06.720 little bit of snow. 0:03:06.720 --> 0:03:11.600 No, but I've been here for thirty five years. Wow, 0:03:13.240 --> 0:03:14.720 I'm an Angelina at this point. 0:03:14.880 --> 0:03:15.440 Yeah, I think. 0:03:15.480 --> 0:03:15.600 So. 0:03:16.560 --> 0:03:17.560 How did you end up in LA? 0:03:19.800 --> 0:03:22.040 I came out to be in the mailroom at a 0:03:22.080 --> 0:03:25.280 talent agency right for college. 0:03:25.800 --> 0:03:26.440 Wow. 0:03:27.120 --> 0:03:28.440 How long were you in that position? 0:03:29.520 --> 0:03:30.200 Six months? 0:03:31.360 --> 0:03:35.720 I didn't really know how to drive very well, and 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:41.920 but I had I had done some booking in Champagne, Illinois, 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:48.160 where I attended college, and I uh sort of contracted 0:03:48.200 --> 0:03:51.480 a lot of acts from Triad, Mark Giger and Frank 0:03:51.560 --> 0:03:55.760 Riley in particular, and was lucky enough to be able 0:03:55.800 --> 0:03:58.200 to come out to LA and work work in the 0:03:58.200 --> 0:04:03.800 mail room. Soon after, I worked at BMI Broadcasting, Inc. 0:04:05.080 --> 0:04:06.360 And then. 0:04:08.400 --> 0:04:11.840 I was the second assistant to the vice president, and 0:04:11.880 --> 0:04:15.640 then a good fortune of working in the film and 0:04:15.680 --> 0:04:16.480 TV department. 0:04:17.240 --> 0:04:17.600 Wow. 0:04:18.120 --> 0:04:20.440 So in college, what did you go to college for 0:04:21.200 --> 0:04:22.080 political science? 0:04:25.000 --> 0:04:26.480 What did you think you were going to do when 0:04:26.560 --> 0:04:30.000 you went into the mailroom agency. 0:04:30.360 --> 0:04:34.040 I thought, I mean, I understood what a big opportunity 0:04:34.040 --> 0:04:34.400 it was. 0:04:34.520 --> 0:04:38.360 I was this is the Midwest in the eighties, and 0:04:39.120 --> 0:04:43.200 to me, the music business was really the live music business. 0:04:43.279 --> 0:04:47.640 That was what I understood, and I loved this organization, 0:04:49.040 --> 0:04:51.520 and I loved the opportunity to get to work in 0:04:51.560 --> 0:04:53.440 the in the big industry. 0:04:54.200 --> 0:04:56.360 So I didn't really know what I was going to do. 0:04:57.880 --> 0:05:03.159 Because I didn't have a lot of knowledge yet about 0:05:03.200 --> 0:05:06.000 how things act, how things worked on a big scale. 0:05:06.240 --> 0:05:10.599 So you go to college for polysei and then you're 0:05:10.760 --> 0:05:14.680 just a big you love music. Yeah, music there, and 0:05:14.680 --> 0:05:17.760 you're like, you know what, this degree's here, fine, whatever. 0:05:17.880 --> 0:05:18.719 I got to get to LA. 0:05:19.440 --> 0:05:23.760 My dad taught political science, my mother was a high 0:05:23.839 --> 0:05:29.960 school librarian. I'm an only child, so I think I 0:05:30.080 --> 0:05:34.919 was hoping to check some family boxes. 0:05:35.279 --> 0:05:38.720 And also, but I really was a music kid. I 0:05:38.800 --> 0:05:41.760 loved it. I loved to me it was more than 0:05:44.400 --> 0:05:45.200 a hobby. 0:05:45.400 --> 0:05:48.120 It was sort of in those days, especially, it was 0:05:48.200 --> 0:05:53.960 how we self sorted the kids that went for you know, 0:05:54.080 --> 0:05:59.760 went sort of vinyl Vinyl deep diving, and my social 0:05:59.760 --> 0:06:03.480 life was very very much revolved around live shows. 0:06:03.920 --> 0:06:05.839 Do you remember like what got you into music, Like 0:06:05.960 --> 0:06:08.920 was there an act or anything in particular? 0:06:10.040 --> 0:06:14.320 I think I was an MTV kid and so it 0:06:16.040 --> 0:06:20.520 had it debuted or like, I don't remember when it debuted, 0:06:20.560 --> 0:06:22.920 but I remembered being pretty fascinated by it. 0:06:24.320 --> 0:06:27.200 Soon after. So I love the arrhythmics, I love. 0:06:27.120 --> 0:06:32.000 The Police and all the yummy eighties. 0:06:32.600 --> 0:06:39.240 Yeah, I just because in your position you've been like 0:06:39.440 --> 0:06:46.760 music creative production, like you have to have I imagine 0:06:47.040 --> 0:06:49.679 you would know better than me some sort of crazy 0:06:49.680 --> 0:06:53.800 good taste too, work your way up and be so 0:06:53.839 --> 0:06:58.200 successful in your career and so like for me finding 0:06:58.240 --> 0:07:02.000 out how you know, how you got your taste and 0:07:02.080 --> 0:07:04.160 so then you get to be am I and you 0:07:04.160 --> 0:07:05.800 have all this wealth of music knowledge as you're a 0:07:05.880 --> 0:07:09.160 music nerd. Like what happens then, like. 0:07:09.440 --> 0:07:10.480 How did I I think? 0:07:10.560 --> 0:07:16.120 I think my taste was developed very much by my 0:07:16.520 --> 0:07:20.960 friends and sort of what my friends were listening to 0:07:21.200 --> 0:07:25.000 in high school. What we discovered together was very inspired 0:07:25.040 --> 0:07:28.640 by the John Hughes movies that were all shot in 0:07:28.680 --> 0:07:34.800 the suburbs of Chicago, and how masterfully John Hughes introduced 0:07:35.920 --> 0:07:38.480 what we now think about is alternative music, which of 0:07:38.520 --> 0:07:44.920 course became very mainstream music to fans all over the world. 0:07:46.120 --> 0:07:49.280 And then also in college, my friend we were just 0:07:49.320 --> 0:07:52.080 introducing each other to music and I loved and I 0:07:52.160 --> 0:07:56.760 think when people asked me later in my career, like 0:07:56.880 --> 0:07:59.600 what does it take to be a music supervisor, I think, 0:08:00.520 --> 0:08:03.600 more than anything, you really have to love music. It's 0:08:03.640 --> 0:08:07.960 a crazy job to have if you don't, and love 0:08:08.000 --> 0:08:14.840 discovery and sort of understand there's discovery and music from 0:08:14.880 --> 0:08:18.200 all eras and maybe we'll talk about it a little later. 0:08:18.600 --> 0:08:22.360 I was able to do some period shows and really 0:08:22.400 --> 0:08:29.400 do some deep dives, and that's as satisfying as new music. 0:08:30.560 --> 0:08:34.959 I think for my time at BMI, where I worked 0:08:34.960 --> 0:08:38.280 in the film and TV department, really at BMI, which 0:08:38.320 --> 0:08:41.480 is you know, Broadcast Music, Inc. Was the first time 0:08:41.520 --> 0:08:47.040 I really understood that the music and film, the TV 0:08:47.160 --> 0:08:53.120 and film music part of the industry was very organized. 0:08:53.600 --> 0:08:56.120 It wasn't something that had occurred to me before that. 0:08:56.880 --> 0:09:00.880 And to understand that music super like music supervision, was 0:09:00.960 --> 0:09:08.160 a gig. Of course, you know instinctively that there are composers. 0:09:08.240 --> 0:09:12.800 I wasn't yet following composers, really following bands before my 0:09:13.320 --> 0:09:16.480 time at BMI, and I was there probably as a 0:09:16.640 --> 0:09:20.720 twenty two or twenty three year old, and it was 0:09:21.320 --> 0:09:27.679 just really seductive to understand that there was a way to, 0:09:27.800 --> 0:09:30.480 you know, perhaps do what John Hughes did. 0:09:30.840 --> 0:09:34.600 And yeah, yeah, I think that's way so interesting because 0:09:34.720 --> 0:09:37.960 for a lot of people like you, you didn't. 0:09:37.720 --> 0:09:39.040 Know that that was a job. 0:09:39.240 --> 0:09:42.440 So for for our listeners, can you just like kind 0:09:42.480 --> 0:09:46.800 of high level explain what a music supervisor's job actually 0:09:47.040 --> 0:09:50.319 is because it's so fascinating and it's special, but I. 0:09:50.240 --> 0:09:51.240 Don't think a lot of people know. 0:09:52.080 --> 0:09:56.520 I think you're probably right well. 0:09:56.760 --> 0:10:00.360 At its core, music supervision is a team sport, and 0:10:00.400 --> 0:10:04.520 I think that is the headline. So a music supervisor 0:10:05.320 --> 0:10:08.880 is one of is one of a group of key creatives. 0:10:09.320 --> 0:10:14.280 On the film side, you are really looking to carry 0:10:14.280 --> 0:10:18.600 out the director's vision. On a series side, you're really 0:10:19.200 --> 0:10:22.000 doing the same thing for the showrunner. And I think 0:10:22.240 --> 0:10:26.120 those terms have become more and more commonplace and sort 0:10:26.120 --> 0:10:29.800 of folks understand what a showrunner does and what a 0:10:29.880 --> 0:10:37.840 director does. We sit alongside editorial, the costumer, the production designer, 0:10:38.000 --> 0:10:41.000 and I think we all work together to make sure 0:10:41.520 --> 0:10:44.600 that I'll just use showrunner as an example, that the 0:10:44.720 --> 0:10:50.000 showrunner's vision for their project is carried out. 0:10:50.120 --> 0:10:52.679 So when you when the. 0:10:52.160 --> 0:10:56.520 Viewer here's the dialogue, they see the production design. So 0:10:56.760 --> 0:11:00.320 everything is seamless and is telling the story as it 0:11:00.400 --> 0:11:02.080 is intended. 0:11:01.520 --> 0:11:02.240 To be told. 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:07.120 So a music supervisor, as you know, oftentimes I got 0:11:07.200 --> 0:11:12.040 involved very early, and for example, Josh Schwartz and I 0:11:12.080 --> 0:11:16.520 would talk about outlines for the OC, like very early 0:11:16.559 --> 0:11:24.240 in the process. He uh scripted and you know, sort 0:11:24.280 --> 0:11:27.000 of built conceived of the Bait Shop, which was the 0:11:27.320 --> 0:11:30.920 which was the live music venue for the OC. So 0:11:31.040 --> 0:11:36.640 I had a lot of conversations with Josh, and my 0:11:36.880 --> 0:11:40.200 job was to not only make sure we brought live 0:11:40.280 --> 0:11:45.680 bands to perform on the OC, but also to to 0:11:45.880 --> 0:11:49.960 really keep music coming and so I would send new music. 0:11:50.000 --> 0:11:52.719 And I think it's really about identifying the sound and 0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:56.720 so having conversations with the showrunner and director to what 0:11:56.920 --> 0:12:02.040 is the sound, what what does what does that creative 0:12:02.120 --> 0:12:05.679 want the music to sound like in the show, And 0:12:05.720 --> 0:12:07.840 then of course how. 0:12:07.720 --> 0:12:12.840 Do we get it into the show on budget? All 0:12:13.400 --> 0:12:15.600 you know, and here's the here's the on sexy side, 0:12:15.720 --> 0:12:16.840 on budget. 0:12:17.760 --> 0:12:22.520 And fully cleared. And of course there's a complicated clearance 0:12:22.559 --> 0:12:28.920 process where the artists and writers we ask permission in 0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:33.440 a in a sort of uncomplicated but complicated legal way 0:12:33.679 --> 0:12:37.640 to make sure that the rights holders are giving a 0:12:37.720 --> 0:12:43.319 granting permission and that permission is given in very specific 0:12:43.400 --> 0:12:47.200 ways and so the scene is detailed, that timing is detailed. 0:12:47.480 --> 0:12:50.560 None of it is like haphazard or vague. And so 0:12:51.480 --> 0:12:55.640 a music supervisor has to have creative chops and and 0:12:55.720 --> 0:12:59.920 a real connection with the with the create the key 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:04.439 creative the showrunner or director, but also be organized enough 0:13:05.080 --> 0:13:09.000 to make sure that the right song is mixed in, 0:13:09.240 --> 0:13:12.120 that the rights are cleared, that it's on budget. So 0:13:12.200 --> 0:13:15.520 it's a it's a left brain right brain thing. 0:13:15.640 --> 0:13:18.160 Yeah. Organize seems to be the keyword there. 0:13:18.679 --> 0:13:21.319 Organized, organized good And. 0:13:21.280 --> 0:13:23.640 I feel like a lot in this business you have 0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:26.760 people who are super creative, but they don't have any 0:13:26.760 --> 0:13:30.480 of the organizational capacity right or they just do the 0:13:30.600 --> 0:13:34.679 organizational stuff and don't really do creative your music. Sure 0:13:34.720 --> 0:13:37.160 provision is one of those spots that really straddles both 0:13:37.200 --> 0:13:41.320 sides and has to be able to seamlessly execute that 0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:45.120 because music is the underpinning of everything we consume, Like 0:13:45.200 --> 0:13:47.960 all media, it evokes all these feelings, and it's like, 0:13:48.000 --> 0:13:51.040 if that is not right and locked in and not 0:13:51.280 --> 0:13:54.600 being cleared, then what do we have Because the music 0:13:54.720 --> 0:13:59.200 often is informing are the audience's emotional response to whatever 0:13:59.240 --> 0:13:59.880 we're consuming. 0:14:01.280 --> 0:14:02.560 I think that's right. 0:14:02.640 --> 0:14:06.720 I think I would add though that that sort of 0:14:06.800 --> 0:14:10.600 the production design in the same way. 0:14:10.720 --> 0:14:16.200 Oh yes, an editorial also have to be both incredibly 0:14:16.400 --> 0:14:21.000 creative and also like the organization and the detail work 0:14:21.320 --> 0:14:22.200 in those. 0:14:23.360 --> 0:14:27.280 And those capacities are important too. But right, it's like 0:14:27.360 --> 0:14:30.920 it's a it's a special it's a special skill. 0:14:38.840 --> 0:14:41.600 So often in your work you're talking about budget and 0:14:41.640 --> 0:14:44.480 you're talking about what is the sound for something you 0:14:44.480 --> 0:14:48.000 may be working on. You've worked on a lot of 0:14:48.040 --> 0:14:50.640 projects where I feel like you've almost broken a lot 0:14:50.640 --> 0:14:55.720 of new artists, and I wonder if that does that 0:14:55.760 --> 0:14:59.000 come from a taste thing you find this music, you're like, oh, 0:14:59.160 --> 0:15:01.640 I think this is exactly what this either showrunner or 0:15:01.680 --> 0:15:04.320 director may be looking for and also their news, so 0:15:04.360 --> 0:15:07.120 maybe it's cheaper, like or is it. 0:15:10.760 --> 0:15:11.480 Okay? Fair enough? 0:15:11.680 --> 0:15:13.760 That was kind of along the lines with the same question. 0:15:13.920 --> 0:15:18.600 Kevin it's more specifically like Gray's Anatomy, for example, right 0:15:18.720 --> 0:15:22.680 like the Flea, the Fray and Snow Patrol, which shaped 0:15:22.760 --> 0:15:26.360 a lot of our the way we listened to music, 0:15:26.400 --> 0:15:29.240 what we were listening to. You changed the artists lives, 0:15:29.240 --> 0:15:35.840 You changed the consumers' lives. The show was so clear 0:15:36.640 --> 0:15:40.400 because of that music also in addition to you know, 0:15:41.280 --> 0:15:46.800 the writing and the performances. But yeah, what is that? 0:15:47.360 --> 0:15:51.960 What was that process specifically? Like realizing that these artists 0:15:51.960 --> 0:15:55.720 were then you know, you changed their lives in a 0:15:55.720 --> 0:15:59.400 lot of ways, and it was like such a big 0:15:59.480 --> 0:16:00.880 cultural shift as well. 0:16:02.280 --> 0:16:07.280 I mean, I really I really care about new artists 0:16:07.320 --> 0:16:13.800 and new music, and it was incredibly satisfying to see, 0:16:14.640 --> 0:16:19.400 really satisfying to see careers launched. To your point earlier, 0:16:19.480 --> 0:16:23.520 it wasn't a budget. It wasn't a budget decision. I 0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:28.000 worked on the pilot for Gray's Anatomy and of course 0:16:28.920 --> 0:16:33.680 through through many subsequent seasons, and I remember sitting with 0:16:33.800 --> 0:16:39.280 Shonda Rhymes and Betsy Bears and you know, during the pilot, 0:16:39.400 --> 0:16:42.640 and really back to that conversation that I said that 0:16:42.640 --> 0:16:44.720 that like you really have to. 0:16:44.720 --> 0:16:45.560 Have, which is. 0:16:48.360 --> 0:16:52.360 Shanda wanted the music to reflect and she talks about 0:16:52.400 --> 0:16:55.360 it a lot like the youth and the like the 0:16:55.880 --> 0:17:01.560 beginnings of the Interns journeys and the residents journeys, and 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:07.280 so the music had a hand knit quality that had 0:17:07.280 --> 0:17:10.800 a very youthful quality. Especially in the early seasons, we 0:17:10.880 --> 0:17:17.479 leaned into female vocals, We leaned into both like you know, 0:17:17.720 --> 0:17:24.200 up and coming American artists and European artists. And that 0:17:24.359 --> 0:17:27.359 time was was a big shift in how a music 0:17:27.400 --> 0:17:30.560 supervisor could do their job. So when I started, I 0:17:30.640 --> 0:17:34.560 did my first project in nineteen ninety five or six, 0:17:35.280 --> 0:17:39.639 So that was my first, my first movie, which I did. 0:17:39.480 --> 0:17:40.359 For Roger Corman. 0:17:42.200 --> 0:17:44.000 And you should look if you don't know, if you're 0:17:44.000 --> 0:17:48.480 not a Roger Corman fan, you should, the listeners should 0:17:48.480 --> 0:17:51.560 spend some time a legendary movie producer. 0:17:51.640 --> 0:17:54.080 An amazing way to learn this craft. 0:17:56.160 --> 0:18:00.159 And when I started, everything was through the fact X 0:18:00.280 --> 0:18:06.480 machine clearances took forever I was male, sometimes like male, 0:18:07.800 --> 0:18:10.320 you know, the actual male. I I would male a 0:18:10.359 --> 0:18:14.680 request to somebody and hope to get it back. By 0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:19.560 the time Grey's Anatomy was on the air, we were 0:18:19.680 --> 0:18:25.080 now you know, we were faxing, you know, International music 0:18:26.040 --> 0:18:30.080 was becoming more accessible, less like, less steps yes, So 0:18:30.160 --> 0:18:32.600 all of a sudden, every band was a local band, 0:18:33.280 --> 0:18:35.679 and I really embraced that. 0:18:36.520 --> 0:18:38.360 I had an amazing staff. 0:18:39.720 --> 0:18:42.560 And in those days, it wasn't we weren't really getting 0:18:42.640 --> 0:18:47.760 music digitally yet. So mounds of CDs would show up. 0:18:48.920 --> 0:18:51.840 We would you know, in the mail, and I had 0:18:51.840 --> 0:18:57.639 a tiny office and the walls were stacked with submissions, 0:18:58.760 --> 0:19:03.760 domestic and international, and we would listen through those submissions 0:19:05.280 --> 0:19:11.600 and create, you know, quite painstakingly compilations that took forever 0:19:11.720 --> 0:19:16.439 to make, forever to copy, and those would go you know, 0:19:16.520 --> 0:19:22.280 to Shonda to Betsy to editorial and so slowly, Uh, 0:19:23.480 --> 0:19:26.560 you know, I was able to understand what was working 0:19:26.640 --> 0:19:30.879 for Shonda, what was like, what songs were sticking, what weren't, 0:19:31.000 --> 0:19:34.000 and like, you know, the beginning of any first season 0:19:34.240 --> 0:19:37.240 of any show, and certainly any movie is a long 0:19:37.320 --> 0:19:40.560 conversation what works and why. 0:19:41.160 --> 0:19:43.159 Yeah, it feels like you're putting the pieces of a 0:19:43.200 --> 0:19:45.879 puzzle together and just trying to like throwing it out 0:19:45.920 --> 0:19:48.359 the wall and seeing what, let's say, Shonda in this 0:19:48.440 --> 0:19:51.920 case responds to what she sees for the characters and 0:19:52.080 --> 0:19:55.080 the story. It also felt like for Gray's Natomy specifically, 0:19:55.440 --> 0:19:57.760 and I'm wondering if this changes project to project about 0:19:57.760 --> 0:20:02.600 like what about the music? May you think, Oh, because 0:20:02.600 --> 0:20:04.280 I feel like in Grays in that first season, there's 0:20:04.320 --> 0:20:07.399 a lot of like vocal similarity quality whether female or 0:20:07.400 --> 0:20:10.919 male singers, but there's like a sort of like vulnerability 0:20:11.480 --> 0:20:16.600 and softness and like maybe really honesty and a vocal 0:20:16.840 --> 0:20:19.880 that is happening in that season. Is that something when 0:20:19.920 --> 0:20:21.679 you hear that, you're like, Oh, maybe this is the 0:20:21.720 --> 0:20:24.840 emotion Shonda needs in this or what she's looking for. 0:20:25.320 --> 0:20:26.439 Yeah, I think I think that. 0:20:26.560 --> 0:20:30.680 I think you really that's really accurate, you know, sort 0:20:30.680 --> 0:20:33.680 of sense of it. And there was a lot of vulnerability. 0:20:34.160 --> 0:20:37.600 There's you didn't hear a lot of vibrato in the vocals. 0:20:37.720 --> 0:20:41.880 It wasn't right, it wasn't very polished. Yeah, And I 0:20:41.920 --> 0:20:47.400 think that those sounds very specifically reflected. 0:20:48.880 --> 0:20:52.320 How Shonda was telling the story. 0:20:52.480 --> 0:20:55.399 And I think I think that's if there's anything to 0:20:55.440 --> 0:20:58.560 say about supervision is like we're in support of the script, 0:20:58.760 --> 0:21:04.200 like the music muse supervision, although like I really obviously 0:21:04.240 --> 0:21:08.040 thought about soundtracks and playlists as well, and a great 0:21:08.119 --> 0:21:11.639 soundtrack is a companion piece. 0:21:12.920 --> 0:21:15.720 To the project that really. 0:21:16.160 --> 0:21:20.399 Sums up, summarizes however you want to say it the 0:21:20.440 --> 0:21:23.280 best of whatever is in a season or a show. 0:21:23.800 --> 0:21:26.680 Is it a key moment, is it a really special song? 0:21:27.600 --> 0:21:30.240 Might be an on camera, it might be a special artist. 0:21:31.240 --> 0:21:33.439 But I think you're right. I think there's a certain 0:21:33.880 --> 0:21:36.160 I think I keep on saying hand knit, and that's 0:21:36.200 --> 0:21:41.800 what comes to mind for me. There there's something about 0:21:41.840 --> 0:21:50.160 the music, and of course Seanda's characters evolved, the story evolves. 0:21:50.359 --> 0:21:51.600 And so does the music. 0:21:51.680 --> 0:21:54.439 The music has to you know, has to live and 0:21:54.480 --> 0:21:59.040 breathe with the story. You know, there's moments, you know. 0:21:59.080 --> 0:22:02.200 I think another thing that that Shanda did quite particularly 0:22:02.680 --> 0:22:07.080 was really think about using songs as score. 0:22:08.480 --> 0:22:14.479 And to play songs for five minutes, for six minutes. 0:22:14.560 --> 0:22:17.440 I mean I think that, you know, obviously the snow 0:22:17.440 --> 0:22:19.400 patrol chasing car scene. 0:22:19.119 --> 0:22:23.040 Gets referenced quite a bit. It's really scores. 0:22:23.480 --> 0:22:28.480 Yeah, multiple scenes coming together in a very huge moment. 0:22:29.800 --> 0:22:35.040 And this was before splits were so easily if that 0:22:35.160 --> 0:22:38.200 makes sense to you to your audience, when you could 0:22:38.240 --> 0:22:40.399 strip out a vocal and just hear the instrumental. 0:22:40.400 --> 0:22:42.280 I mean, we really had to work. 0:22:42.040 --> 0:22:44.720 With the music in a way that has become easier 0:22:45.640 --> 0:22:47.200 over the last decades. 0:22:46.920 --> 0:22:50.359 Well, because I imagine that on a technical level, to 0:22:50.400 --> 0:22:53.960 get permission to do that, is that a whole separate ask, 0:22:54.200 --> 0:22:56.239 as opposed to we want to use your song for 0:22:56.280 --> 0:22:58.240 thirty seconds in the scenes, like, oh no, we also 0:22:58.280 --> 0:23:00.840 want to maybe just use an capella for a bit, 0:23:00.960 --> 0:23:03.560 or just an instrumental for a little bit, and stretch 0:23:03.640 --> 0:23:05.760 out this three and a half minute song to maybe 0:23:05.800 --> 0:23:08.399 five minutes, Like is that a whole you have to 0:23:08.400 --> 0:23:09.840 paint that picture for the artists. 0:23:10.119 --> 0:23:13.600 That's clearly that's an excellent question, and it's exactly right. 0:23:13.760 --> 0:23:14.960 It's really about. 0:23:15.480 --> 0:23:18.320 Might not be like second by second, yeah, but it's 0:23:18.480 --> 0:23:22.359 you know, it is definitely letting the artists know how 0:23:23.520 --> 0:23:28.000 the song might be changed and why, and it's you know, 0:23:28.119 --> 0:23:28.720 I think. 0:23:29.280 --> 0:23:30.200 It's used for good. 0:23:30.400 --> 0:23:33.760 It's really about it's really about the most impactful use 0:23:33.800 --> 0:23:39.400 of that piece of music. I don't Obviously, another key 0:23:39.440 --> 0:23:44.160 component in the music team is the music editor, whose 0:23:44.280 --> 0:23:47.160 job it is to do all those things, to support 0:23:47.200 --> 0:23:52.160 both the composer and the editorial team and the music 0:23:52.240 --> 0:23:58.600 supervisor and really making sure that these songs are expertly, 0:23:58.680 --> 0:24:01.639 exquisitely perfectly placed against picture. 0:24:02.200 --> 0:24:02.440 Yeah. 0:24:02.480 --> 0:24:08.359 So when you when say a showrunner a creator Shonda says, Okay, 0:24:08.359 --> 0:24:11.600 we're going to use this song in this scene. How 0:24:11.640 --> 0:24:14.399 involved are you or are you able to see that 0:24:14.800 --> 0:24:19.400 in the process of putting that those pieces together and 0:24:19.440 --> 0:24:24.159 seeing if it works or not, versus like you know, 0:24:24.200 --> 0:24:27.520 in the editing room versus just seeing the final cut later. 0:24:28.040 --> 0:24:29.320 For sure, a really good question. 0:24:30.880 --> 0:24:33.480 I often got asked, like how does how does the 0:24:33.520 --> 0:24:37.280 music actually get in there? And and it really happens 0:24:37.960 --> 0:24:43.280 all sorts of ways, honestly, So something that I always 0:24:43.280 --> 0:24:46.840 did was do these compilations as I see, you know, 0:24:47.280 --> 0:24:48.840 in the old days took a long time. 0:24:49.160 --> 0:24:50.919 In the modern era, you know. 0:24:51.160 --> 0:24:56.040 Picking the music is just as is intentional and and 0:24:56.160 --> 0:24:59.280 time consuming, but the you know, the physical process of 0:24:59.400 --> 0:25:01.160 getting it to a it needs to go is now 0:25:01.200 --> 0:25:08.520 a snap. But you know, picture editors are often so musical, 0:25:08.800 --> 0:25:14.960 like editing is a very rhythmic, you know, musical process. 0:25:15.960 --> 0:25:20.479 So these compilations would sit an editorial. Sometimes the picture 0:25:20.600 --> 0:25:24.480 editor would would end up picking the song from these compilations. 0:25:26.000 --> 0:25:30.280 Sometimes the showrunner would script songs at the very beginning, 0:25:30.400 --> 0:25:32.480 so like. 0:25:31.720 --> 0:25:34.200