WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 87 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:02.680 Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let 0:00:02.759 --> 0:00:06.400 you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode 0:00:06.519 --> 0:00:09.440 of the week that just happened is here in one 0:00:09.520 --> 0:00:13.280 convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to 0:00:13.320 --> 0:00:15.800 listen to in a long stretch if you want. If 0:00:15.800 --> 0:00:17.720 you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, 0:00:17.760 --> 0:00:19.520 there's got to be nothing new here for you, But 0:00:19.880 --> 0:00:21.600 you can make your own decisions. 0:00:26.480 --> 0:00:30.760 It's It's it can happen here. It's the podcast sometimes 0:00:30.760 --> 0:00:32.159 hosted by me and Bia Wong. 0:00:32.280 --> 0:00:32.639 It is. 0:00:34.280 --> 0:00:37.320 I guess this is a combination things falling apart putting 0:00:37.320 --> 0:00:38.040 things back together. 0:00:38.120 --> 0:00:38.640 Episode. 0:00:38.960 --> 0:00:42.880 We are doing some more coverage of the US's sort 0:00:42.920 --> 0:00:47.559 of epidemic of mass evictions. But yeah, so with me 0:00:47.640 --> 0:00:50.479 to talk about this is Max Is, one of the 0:00:50.560 --> 0:00:53.360 organizers and co founders of Santa Barbara Tennant's Union, and 0:00:53.440 --> 0:00:56.920 Sam Sapiazi, who's another tenant and a member of the union. 0:00:57.200 --> 0:00:57.520 YouTube. 0:00:57.560 --> 0:00:58.480 Yeah, welcome to the show. 0:01:00.120 --> 0:01:01.000 I thank you. 0:01:01.840 --> 0:01:04.479 Yeah, So, I guess we should start with talking about 0:01:04.480 --> 0:01:07.560 the specific mass eviction that is happening, which has been 0:01:07.680 --> 0:01:14.560 caused by a terrifying and unfortunate product of my hometown Chicago, 0:01:14.680 --> 0:01:20.200 a very large company called core Spaces, who have incredibly 0:01:20.240 --> 0:01:24.560 suspicious branding for the fact that they're a giant landlord company. 0:01:25.720 --> 0:01:25.920 Yeah. 0:01:25.959 --> 0:01:28.160 I think guy has bought your building and is attempting 0:01:28.160 --> 0:01:29.119 to evict everyone is. 0:01:29.080 --> 0:01:34.520 This Yeah, Yeah, So Core Spaces out of Chicago and 0:01:34.560 --> 0:01:40.240 I believe Austin, Texas have purchased r for building apartment 0:01:40.280 --> 0:01:45.119 complex approximately two hundred and forty three units. I believe 0:01:45.160 --> 0:01:46.199 over a thousand people. 0:01:46.920 --> 0:01:49.400 Yeah, and they just immediately Yeah. So I guess this 0:01:49.480 --> 0:01:50.720 is one of the other things we should we should 0:01:50.720 --> 0:01:55.120 talk about first. Is this thing that landlords do where 0:01:55.720 --> 0:01:58.000 they either buy a property or they have a property, 0:01:58.080 --> 0:02:00.320 then they're like, oh, hey, we're doing renovations on we're 0:02:00.320 --> 0:02:02.960 evicting everyone, and then you don't let anyone ever come 0:02:03.000 --> 0:02:06.080 back because you're you know, you're quote unquote renovation. You're 0:02:06.080 --> 0:02:08.320 just a way to do a price hike, which seems 0:02:08.360 --> 0:02:09.400 to be what's happening here. 0:02:10.120 --> 0:02:10.320 Yeah. 0:02:10.320 --> 0:02:13.960 And renoviction it's a nice it's a nice term for that, right, renoviction. 0:02:14.040 --> 0:02:16.680 It's you're renovating to evict, Just to if listeners aren't 0:02:16.680 --> 0:02:17.440 aware of that term. 0:02:18.240 --> 0:02:22.320 Yeah, And I think if I'm understanding their plan, right, 0:02:22.400 --> 0:02:24.919 they're trying to basically turn this into luxury student housing. 0:02:25.600 --> 0:02:30.320 Yeah, yeah, that's that's what we presume. That's kind of 0:02:30.360 --> 0:02:34.560 their business model is to buy up housing in college 0:02:34.600 --> 0:02:39.400 towns and do some renovations and then hike up the 0:02:39.440 --> 0:02:40.600 rent drastically. 0:02:41.040 --> 0:02:41.239 Yeah. 0:02:41.280 --> 0:02:42.720 I mean, that's definitely a thing that happened. There's a 0:02:42.760 --> 0:02:47.280 lot of colleges in Chicago, which I don't know, presumably 0:02:47.440 --> 0:02:49.120 people know that on a sort of abstract level, but 0:02:49.160 --> 0:02:52.440 this is the thing that happens basically everywhere there are colleges. 0:02:53.000 --> 0:02:53.520 Yeah. 0:02:53.800 --> 0:02:56.960 Yeah, we've we've actually talked to other like grad student 0:02:57.040 --> 0:03:00.880 organizers about this stuff too, because it up sort of 0:03:01.680 --> 0:03:03.200 affecting everyone at all sides. 0:03:03.680 --> 0:03:03.880 Yeah. 0:03:03.960 --> 0:03:07.639 So I guess, Okay, so facing this eviction, I guess 0:03:07.639 --> 0:03:10.400 I wanted to talk about how you all started organizing 0:03:10.400 --> 0:03:10.919 against it. 0:03:11.800 --> 0:03:19.440 We got our original notices on March sixteenth. We had previously, 0:03:20.440 --> 0:03:24.040 I want to say it was like December or January. 0:03:24.200 --> 0:03:27.120 We had got notice that some people will be coming 0:03:27.120 --> 0:03:30.160 through our apartments investors to look at it, and I 0:03:30.280 --> 0:03:33.000 like took pictures of my bathroom and my kitchen. It 0:03:33.080 --> 0:03:37.960 was super and so we kind of I think a 0:03:37.960 --> 0:03:41.600 lot of us knew at that point like, Okay, something's 0:03:41.640 --> 0:03:45.720 going on, right obviously. And then March, I want to 0:03:45.720 --> 0:03:49.120 say it was March fifteenth or sixteenth, we got a 0:03:49.200 --> 0:03:54.440 notice that the building was sold from Essex to Course Spaces. 0:03:54.920 --> 0:03:57.720 And then it was the day after that we got 0:03:57.760 --> 0:04:03.000 a notice that said, hey, you're all getting evicted because 0:04:03.040 --> 0:04:07.400 we got to do renovations. I kind of expected it 0:04:07.440 --> 0:04:14.320 to be honest, because I've seen what Blackstone has done. Yeah, 0:04:14.440 --> 0:04:18.160 and I had just heard about it from a lot 0:04:18.160 --> 0:04:22.960 of properties or also tenants, like in La friends that 0:04:23.000 --> 0:04:26.159 I had, other college students that had had this happen 0:04:26.240 --> 0:04:32.839 to them. But after that, basically, I mean, I don't 0:04:33.240 --> 0:04:37.919 want to speak for everyone but my own personal Like 0:04:37.960 --> 0:04:40.680 what I did. I just kind of went on Reddit 0:04:40.960 --> 0:04:46.040 and was like, hey, this really awful thing is happening. 0:04:46.880 --> 0:04:49.480 You know. I went on the UCSB reddit page. This 0:04:49.520 --> 0:04:52.720 really awful thing is happening. There's like a lot of 0:04:52.760 --> 0:04:56.480 families that live here. There's so many Section eight disabled people, 0:04:56.640 --> 0:05:02.880 elderly and udents, but our complex is a little different 0:05:02.920 --> 0:05:07.960 and that it does have more of the marginalized groups. 0:05:08.520 --> 0:05:11.080 And I went on Reddit and was like, dude, this 0:05:10.839 --> 0:05:14.360 is this is awful, like just yeah. So I made 0:05:14.360 --> 0:05:18.880 a post saying this sucks, and from there I was 0:05:18.960 --> 0:05:22.520 referenced to contact Santa Barbara Tendancynon which I was like 0:05:22.680 --> 0:05:25.279 kind of hesitant at first, because I was like, oh, 0:05:26.080 --> 0:05:30.080 what are they going to do, Like I don't know. 0:05:30.120 --> 0:05:31.680 I thought, you know, it's just like one of those 0:05:31.720 --> 0:05:34.200 resources you get where you're just like, are they actually 0:05:34.200 --> 0:05:36.120 going to do anything or is this just for me 0:05:36.200 --> 0:05:38.719 to like waste my time with. But I reached out 0:05:38.760 --> 0:05:42.400 and I got, you know, a response back within hours 0:05:42.440 --> 0:05:45.480 and they're like, yes, here's a flyer for you. We 0:05:45.560 --> 0:05:48.039 are we have your back, We're going to do this, 0:05:48.520 --> 0:05:52.360 we will support you. And so from there, I want 0:05:52.400 --> 0:05:54.160 to say, it was within a day or two, we 0:05:54.200 --> 0:05:58.320 went flying door to door. And remember it's it's two 0:05:58.400 --> 0:06:03.679 hundred and like I said, I think it's play sixteen. Yeah, 0:06:03.760 --> 0:06:08.479 it's it's it's a lot of it's a lot units 0:06:08.520 --> 0:06:13.840 to knock doors on. I know one of our county representatives, 0:06:13.920 --> 0:06:18.200 Laura Capps, called it the largest eviction in California history, 0:06:18.320 --> 0:06:22.599 and I've heard others say at the largest eviction in 0:06:22.640 --> 0:06:24.600 the United States history. I don't I don't know if 0:06:24.640 --> 0:06:29.760 that's uh what they're basing that off of. But it's 0:06:29.760 --> 0:06:35.240 a gigantic eviction. There are many people here. But yeah, 0:06:35.279 --> 0:06:38.880 So from there, I just went like door to door knocking. 0:06:38.960 --> 0:06:41.600 I knew none of my neighbors. I am a hermit. 0:06:41.839 --> 0:06:47.240 I stay in my apartment. I keep my curtains closed. 0:06:47.279 --> 0:06:52.760 I'm like, but the only contact other like my neighbors 0:06:52.800 --> 0:06:55.160 make are with my cats just chilling in the windows 0:06:55.200 --> 0:06:55.839 and stuff. 0:06:56.080 --> 0:06:58.960 But I mean, yeah, to be fair with cat in 0:06:58.960 --> 0:07:00.680 the windows not the worst rep you can have. 0:07:02.680 --> 0:07:13.320 I mean, yeah, true. But even even then, I yeah, 0:07:13.320 --> 0:07:15.200 I didn't even want my cats in the windows. 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:15.520 I was. 0:07:15.560 --> 0:07:18.920 I was very very antisocial. I still am. But I 0:07:18.960 --> 0:07:22.120 have opened my mind quite a bit and come out 0:07:22.160 --> 0:07:26.840 of my shell a little bit. But that's irrelevant. From there, 0:07:27.000 --> 0:07:29.280 like I said, we went flying. We went door to door. 0:07:29.720 --> 0:07:32.840 We found other people that were like, oh, yeah, this 0:07:33.000 --> 0:07:35.760 is super messed up, like we need to fight this. 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:38.360 And we. 0:07:39.760 --> 0:07:43.320 By just going door to door telling people, hey, we 0:07:43.400 --> 0:07:49.840 can fight this eviction. These eviction notices aren't super valid. Anyway, 0:07:50.840 --> 0:07:53.720 we were able to get a gigantic group of our 0:07:53.720 --> 0:08:00.880 neighbors together. Yeah, yeah, and it kind of move from there. 0:08:01.000 --> 0:08:04.280 I don't know how much further. I should explain, there's 0:08:04.280 --> 0:08:06.640 such a like long timeline of the things that have 0:08:06.720 --> 0:08:08.400 happened in the past two months. So I don't know 0:08:08.400 --> 0:08:10.160 where you want me to go from there, but you 0:08:10.200 --> 0:08:12.440 know that's at least the beginning of it was just 0:08:13.040 --> 0:08:16.240 you know, us flying going door to door, getting everyone together, 0:08:16.440 --> 0:08:19.680 getting everyone in a in a group chat, and then 0:08:19.880 --> 0:08:26.760 SBTU truly supporting us and telling us, hey, here's the 0:08:26.800 --> 0:08:29.520 next steps that you need to do. This is how 0:08:29.560 --> 0:08:34.160 you become you know, a union, a tennis association for 0:08:34.360 --> 0:08:38.080 your for yourselves right with their full on support. 0:08:39.320 --> 0:08:41.160 Okay, so there is one thing I wanted to sort 0:08:41.160 --> 0:08:43.120 of talk about a little bit before we move on, 0:08:43.320 --> 0:08:45.960 which is, yeah, can you explain what Section eight is 0:08:46.080 --> 0:08:47.240 for listeners who don't know. 0:08:48.160 --> 0:08:52.320 I can explain it based off my knowledge. I'm not 0:08:52.559 --> 0:08:57.040 currently on Section eight, but I know that resident many 0:08:57.120 --> 0:09:01.160 residents here are on Section eight, which I probably couldn't 0:09:01.160 --> 0:09:03.760 give the best description of it personally, but I know 0:09:03.920 --> 0:09:08.560 a lot of times it's people that are very low 0:09:08.600 --> 0:09:13.000 income or disabled individuals, people that can't work for various reasons, 0:09:14.000 --> 0:09:17.000 get low income housing, meaning they pay Maybe I know 0:09:17.080 --> 0:09:21.120 some of our residents, for example, pay like they get 0:09:21.200 --> 0:09:24.640 Section eight vouchers that will pay about twenty five twenty 0:09:24.679 --> 0:09:27.840 six hundred dollars for their rent and their utilities, and 0:09:27.840 --> 0:09:30.280 then maybe they pay one hundred or two hundred because 0:09:30.320 --> 0:09:34.360 they're unable to get that income otherwise. But Max might 0:09:34.360 --> 0:09:36.240 be able to describe it a little bit better than me. 0:09:36.679 --> 0:09:37.800 Well, that sounds about right. 0:09:38.000 --> 0:09:39.760 I grew up on Section eight with like a single 0:09:39.800 --> 0:09:43.480 mom and stuff, and she yeah, I mean, it's just 0:09:43.480 --> 0:09:47.480 subsidized housing. It's basically it's what public housing, or in 0:09:47.520 --> 0:09:49.280 some countries, social housing would be. 0:09:49.400 --> 0:09:52.840 But in the eighties, like the Reagan era like gutted 0:09:53.000 --> 0:09:53.880 all public. 0:09:53.600 --> 0:09:56.760 Housing, and so the concession was it's a voucher based 0:09:56.760 --> 0:10:00.640 system for the poor, like for the low income people. 0:10:00.920 --> 0:10:04.760 So yeah, it's just the government, Okay, a portion of it. 0:10:04.800 --> 0:10:08.320 Some said it pretty bigger. I think, yeah, And. 0:10:08.559 --> 0:10:10.199 I guess, you know, I guess that this is the 0:10:10.280 --> 0:10:12.200 sort of Yeah, an interesting thing about your building is 0:10:12.200 --> 0:10:14.800 that there's a very there's a very wide range of 0:10:15.720 --> 0:10:18.640 like sort of different backgrounds of people who are involved. 0:10:18.679 --> 0:10:20.200 And I was wondering, you know, we talk a little 0:10:20.200 --> 0:10:21.679 bit about like what that's been like. 0:10:24.400 --> 0:10:29.359 Yeah, So I guess I could say we have four buildings, 0:10:29.640 --> 0:10:32.560 so we have so it's CBC and the SWEEPS, so 0:10:33.240 --> 0:10:39.720 it stands for Colonial Balboa Cortes Sweeps. The SWEEPS has 0:10:39.760 --> 0:10:42.320 a lot of students because it rents by the bed, 0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:49.040 but CBC has a on of families. And as we mentioned, 0:10:49.080 --> 0:10:54.199 you know Section eight and lower income. I want to 0:10:54.240 --> 0:10:58.520 say I had heard from another representative, like a county representative, 0:10:58.520 --> 0:11:00.240 this is I think it might have been more apps. 0:11:00.240 --> 0:11:02.440 Don't quote me on this, but that this is like 0:11:02.520 --> 0:11:08.320 the lowest one of the lowest income housing apartments in 0:11:08.360 --> 0:11:17.520 Ila Vista, and so there's a ton of like large families. 0:11:17.559 --> 0:11:21.880 When when this happened, you just people were just crying 0:11:22.559 --> 0:11:25.040 everywhere like they didn't know what to do. 0:11:25.800 --> 0:11:28.600 This building is it's not unlike a lot of buildings 0:11:28.600 --> 0:11:32.400 where you have a pretty diverse kind of I guess 0:11:32.400 --> 0:11:36.320 just class composition. And I'm just like, so, so you know, 0:11:36.360 --> 0:11:39.840 if you think there's disabled people that have caseworkers, you 0:11:39.920 --> 0:11:44.720 have monolingual Spanish speaking immigrants, You have students, and you 0:11:44.760 --> 0:11:47.400 have some students who are sort of like city college 0:11:47.440 --> 0:11:49.840 students that are working full time or part time and 0:11:49.880 --> 0:11:52.160 their full time students so they're sort of worker students. 0:11:52.679 --> 0:11:56.320 There's like full time UCSB students whose like parents may. 0:11:56.240 --> 0:11:57.440 Be totally loaded or whatever. 0:11:58.520 --> 0:12:01.600 You have you know, often an immigrant and low income 0:12:01.640 --> 0:12:05.240 family families. You have like way more people packed into 0:12:05.280 --> 0:12:07.439 like a one or two bedroom than you would want. 0:12:07.480 --> 0:12:08.920 But it's the only way for free to make rent 0:12:09.000 --> 0:12:13.439 because rent keeps going up every year. So there's a 0:12:13.480 --> 0:12:16.559 lot of that, And so I guess I'll just speak 0:12:16.600 --> 0:12:19.360 to I mean, I've only you know, I've run into 0:12:19.400 --> 0:12:21.040 it a bit, like I'm in the group chats and 0:12:21.080 --> 0:12:23.720 I've been I've been to the building like a few times, 0:12:23.720 --> 0:12:25.520 but I'm not like there every day, and I'm not 0:12:25.559 --> 0:12:27.760 like flying every day and stuff like Sam is living there. 0:12:28.559 --> 0:12:30.680 But like one common kind of like difficult. It's like 0:12:30.720 --> 0:12:32.760 it's it's a beautiful thing and it's a difficulty and 0:12:32.880 --> 0:12:35.800 that like there's so we need interpreters. And like in 0:12:36.000 --> 0:12:38.400 sbtwo we have where we're a sort of self funded 0:12:38.440 --> 0:12:41.120 autonomous tenets union, which means we don't get grants from 0:12:41.200 --> 0:12:44.240 like wealthy foundations or government government entities. 0:12:43.960 --> 0:12:46.720 Or whatever, so we can kind of more dependently make decisions. 0:12:46.800 --> 0:12:49.000 So but we have like a fair amount dues money 0:12:49.040 --> 0:12:51.280 now just from the mass membership that we have kind 0:12:51.280 --> 0:12:54.239 of built, and so we can afford to pay interpreters 0:12:54.240 --> 0:12:57.360 to come out basically whenever we need. So there's been 0:12:57.360 --> 0:12:59.760 interpreters there at almost every one of the Saturday meetings, 0:13:00.600 --> 0:13:02.880 and without that it would it would actually just be impossible, 0:13:02.880 --> 0:13:05.760 I mean not like so that's like when there's a 0:13:05.840 --> 0:13:09.280 language barrier, right that makes it hard to organize, or 0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:11.360 it wouldn't be impossible. There's there's a handful of like 0:13:11.400 --> 0:13:14.920 bilingual people, but they're usually super busy. It's if if 0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:16.600 if one of them doesn't show up, or if the 0:13:16.720 --> 0:13:18.679 child of a parent, like a teenager of a parent 0:13:18.760 --> 0:13:20.520 isn't there or whatever, right, like, how do you actually 0:13:20.520 --> 0:13:25.200 get the info across? So I'll just speak to lastly 0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:27.480 on that that it is like it's a really kind 0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:30.560 of frustrating, sad situation. And we could probably elaborate on 0:13:30.600 --> 0:13:34.920 this in that like the whether it's the lawyers right 0:13:34.960 --> 0:13:37.480 now who have been hired by by Course Baces, which 0:13:37.720 --> 0:13:40.360 they're a snaky, slimy piece of shit, evil firm. They're 0:13:40.360 --> 0:13:46.080 called Tyne Taylor, Fox Howard LP. Just if you see 0:13:46.080 --> 0:13:47.880 any of them on the street, just give them dirty looks. 0:13:47.920 --> 0:13:51.360 Don't do anything violent, use that against me at some 0:13:51.440 --> 0:13:57.640 point in the inevitable thing that's probably gonna happen. But 0:13:57.640 --> 0:14:00.240 but whether it's them with the landlords directly, there's there's 0:14:00.240 --> 0:14:02.600 always a you know, this is happens in labor organizing. 0:14:02.640 --> 0:14:04.359 It's a divide and conquer strategy. 0:14:04.880 --> 0:14:08.959 So they want to spread misinformation amongst the Latinos or 0:14:09.040 --> 0:14:11.560 amongst you know, amongst the families, amongst the disabled, like 0:14:11.559 --> 0:14:13.640 whoever they can sort of get an ear to, they're 0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:16.160 going to give them certain kinds of information to make 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:19.160 them really afraid. They're going to tell them lies, and 0:14:19.160 --> 0:14:21.200 and they're going to get people to try to self evict. 0:14:21.560 --> 0:14:23.800 So I'm I am jumping a little bit ahead, but 0:14:23.880 --> 0:14:27.840 like that, that definitely has been like a challenge in 0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:30.880 that you know, if there was like a totally like linguistically, 0:14:30.920 --> 0:14:34.920 culturally monolithic group of a thousand people, that would probably 0:14:34.920 --> 0:14:38.360 be a little bit easier to keep things like totally unified. 0:14:38.400 --> 0:14:42.320 But those those demographic different differences do present some challenges 0:14:42.360 --> 0:14:42.760 for sure. 0:14:43.160 --> 0:14:45.160 Yeah, that makes it, that makes sense. I mean if 0:14:45.160 --> 0:14:48.360 we've talked to a couple of other kinds of associations 0:14:48.360 --> 0:14:50.520 that have had to actually well, I mean this one 0:14:50.560 --> 0:14:55.120 was actually like you know, and back when I was 0:14:55.120 --> 0:14:57.120 doing tennis to organizing too, like i've i've i've I've 0:14:57.120 --> 0:15:00.920 seen worse in terms of like like in in terms 0:15:00.920 --> 0:15:03.560 of like the number of languages. But it's still like 0:15:03.680 --> 0:15:06.720 never like an enormously easy thing to sort of have 0:15:06.760 --> 0:15:10.040 to bridge, Like just having to bridge linguistic divides too, 0:15:10.200 --> 0:15:14.280 especially when you're getting information like misinformation different languages is 0:15:14.880 --> 0:15:18.000 a whole thing. I could I could talk for like 0:15:18.320 --> 0:15:20.520 seven hours about the effects this has had on like 0:15:20.600 --> 0:15:24.720 Asian American communities, like Chinese Americ communities particular. Yeah, but 0:15:24.760 --> 0:15:26.680 instead of doing that, we're gonna we have to take 0:15:26.680 --> 0:15:32.720 an ad break. We'll be back after whatever incomprehensible ads 0:15:32.920 --> 0:15:33.520 are playing. 0:15:35.000 --> 0:15:38.760 Okay, cool, great ads. Bye by the stuff on the ads. 0:15:39.600 --> 0:15:43.320 And we're back. I hope the ads were short. 0:15:43.720 --> 0:15:48.160 I don't know, there are some great ads. 0:15:50.680 --> 0:15:52.600 I'm gonna buy that thing whatever. 0:15:53.320 --> 0:15:56.720 The Raking coins again or like one of the casinos. 0:15:59.680 --> 0:16:00.280 Okay, So. 0:16:02.120 --> 0:16:07.360 Yeah, so I guess, yeah, you know, we'll just okay. 0:16:07.400 --> 0:16:09.560 Having having having done a thematic jump, I will now 0:16:09.640 --> 0:16:11.920 go back to chronological jumps, which is okay, So you 0:16:12.680 --> 0:16:15.480 have you're starting these organizing what what starts to happen 0:16:15.640 --> 0:16:18.240 after you're starting to get people together and you have 0:16:18.360 --> 0:16:21.600 the tenants, the center parpat tendency need involved. 0:16:22.360 --> 0:16:25.520 Yeah. So it started from flying getting to everyone just 0:16:25.680 --> 0:16:29.640 like a basic letting them know that they don't have 0:16:29.720 --> 0:16:34.080 to move, that this eviction is this eviction is bullshit. 0:16:34.440 --> 0:16:38.680 Right. Oh but by the way, we didn't. We were 0:16:38.680 --> 0:16:41.520 never giving legal advice that people shouldn't move. 0:16:42.280 --> 0:16:44.080 It was if you don't want to, you don't have 0:16:44.160 --> 0:16:47.560 to because there's certain illegitimacies. Just because I know that 0:16:47.600 --> 0:16:51.240 the slimy piece of human fucking garbage fire trash lawyers 0:16:51.280 --> 0:16:53.160 are going to be listening to this and trying to 0:16:53.200 --> 0:16:54.720 use us again, use it against us. 0:16:55.520 --> 0:16:58.040 Go ahead, Yeah, no, thank you for the correction. That 0:16:58.200 --> 0:17:02.560 is entirely Yeah, they don't have to if they don't 0:17:02.600 --> 0:17:08.280 do basically. But yeah, So after we did the flying, 0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:11.200 we Santa our Attendants Union set us up with some 0:17:11.640 --> 0:17:15.200 group chats and we just worked together. From there. We 0:17:16.800 --> 0:17:20.120 just started talking to one another, and I think it 0:17:20.200 --> 0:17:25.480 was it was a new situation for most of us. 0:17:25.880 --> 0:17:27.800 A lot of I mentioned this before, but a lot 0:17:27.800 --> 0:17:31.000 of us didn't talk to each other before. We didn't 0:17:31.040 --> 0:17:34.120 go out of our apartments, which I think is kind 0:17:34.119 --> 0:17:36.400 of normal nowadays. It's not like you know the sixties, 0:17:36.400 --> 0:17:38.359 where like, oh, everyone has a house and knows the 0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:40.840 neighbors and stuff. No, people kind of keep to themselves, 0:17:40.880 --> 0:17:47.360 especially in really large apartment complexes. So yeah, we we 0:17:47.440 --> 0:17:49.879 just started going in the group chat and then someone 0:17:49.960 --> 0:17:52.200 was like, hey, I can do this. Another person was hey, 0:17:52.240 --> 0:17:54.120 I can do this, and then eventually we set up 0:17:55.040 --> 0:18:00.040 a group meeting where we could all come together and 0:18:00.640 --> 0:18:07.760 basically share our our feelings, our emotions, our pain about this, 0:18:08.440 --> 0:18:13.639 but also find a way to fight against it. So 0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:18.320 what we learned was, which we fully learned from the 0:18:18.320 --> 0:18:20.720 center of our rettenants union, was oh, if we go 0:18:20.800 --> 0:18:24.000 in front of the county board, we can convince them, 0:18:24.520 --> 0:18:26.840 we can share our stories, we can share our pain, 0:18:26.880 --> 0:18:29.200 and we can tell them, hey, we need the law 0:18:29.280 --> 0:18:32.439 to change, we can pass something, we can use our 0:18:32.520 --> 0:18:36.560 voices to stop this from not only happening to us 0:18:36.920 --> 0:18:42.840 but future residents. So from there it was really in 0:18:42.880 --> 0:18:46.800 the early stages. We I don't know if this is 0:18:46.880 --> 0:18:50.840 jumping ahead. Honestly, my brain is a little foggurant. So 0:18:50.880 --> 0:18:56.959 there's so much that's happened, so quickly, but I do 0:18:57.119 --> 0:19:02.800 know the next biggest step was us coming in front 0:19:02.960 --> 0:19:08.679 of the of the Santa Barbara County Supervisors Board of 0:19:08.680 --> 0:19:14.320 Supervisors and telling our stories and sharing that. I think 0:19:14.400 --> 0:19:17.040 Max could probably also share a little bit. 0:19:17.600 --> 0:19:19.360 Yeah, I have, so like the dates in my head 0:19:19.359 --> 0:19:22.359 are like, you know, the March fifteenth they bought the building, 0:19:22.359 --> 0:19:25.639 March sixteenth, they issued the notices, and then April sixth, 0:19:25.680 --> 0:19:28.199 which is like three weeks from that, they passed the 0:19:28.200 --> 0:19:31.800 new law. So that means I mean that's like three yeah, 0:19:31.800 --> 0:19:35.760 a three week period from the notices to like having 0:19:35.880 --> 0:19:37.600 I think at least a couple of meetings with like 0:19:37.720 --> 0:19:40.440 dozens of people I don't know, thirty to fifty plus 0:19:40.480 --> 0:19:43.640 people there, and then like forming you. 0:19:43.560 --> 0:19:46.120 Know, deciding to form the association and. 0:19:46.080 --> 0:19:48.879 Voting to call I don't remember exactly if the vote 0:19:49.200 --> 0:19:51.960 to call it. Course, basis their association was before that 0:19:52.359 --> 0:19:53.440 the county meeting or after. 0:19:53.560 --> 0:19:57.800 But and then they're also because there's there's also two like. 0:19:57.800 --> 0:20:02.000 Pretty crazy facts here too, where like about so six 0:20:02.000 --> 0:20:06.080 weeks before, of course BACES announced a new ownership, all 0:20:06.119 --> 0:20:09.280 of us in SBTU had sort of we heard so 0:20:09.320 --> 0:20:11.600 many stories on the Santa Barbara City level, and Santa 0:20:11.600 --> 0:20:13.600 Barbara's City is not the county, right. The county is 0:20:13.600 --> 0:20:16.960 like this larger geographical entity, and Santa Barbara City is 0:20:17.000 --> 0:20:20.720 within the county. On the city level, we've been hearing 0:20:20.760 --> 0:20:24.760 so many really terrible stories about people being renevicted, and 0:20:25.560 --> 0:20:26.680 we just decided. 0:20:26.320 --> 0:20:29.240 To kind of like throw people at like yo. 0:20:29.240 --> 0:20:32.800 Go to go to public comment, tell the city about 0:20:32.800 --> 0:20:34.480 what they're doing, Tell them they need to pass a 0:20:34.480 --> 0:20:37.320 ban on renovictions. We had like a big rally in 0:20:37.359 --> 0:20:39.480 front of city council and we were just going week 0:20:39.520 --> 0:20:42.480 after week, and after about six weeks of this, like 0:20:42.520 --> 0:20:44.760 four to six weeks, I forget the exact timeline, we 0:20:44.840 --> 0:20:47.520 got the city to pass. It wasn't a ban on renovictions, 0:20:47.520 --> 0:20:49.880 but it was an amendment to their what's called their 0:20:49.960 --> 0:20:52.439 Just Cause Ordinance, which makes it a lot harder for 0:20:52.640 --> 0:20:55.359 landlords to renevict and that now that they have to 0:20:55.359 --> 0:20:59.560 get permits first, they have to to put the permits 0:20:59.560 --> 0:21:01.679 in the eviction notices when they're going to do it, 0:21:01.720 --> 0:21:05.159 they need to there's some language that says that it 0:21:05.200 --> 0:21:07.159 needs to be done in good faith, which which is 0:21:07.200 --> 0:21:10.719 like really subtle but potentially really important because if your 0:21:10.760 --> 0:21:12.760 reason is that you just want to trigger what's called 0:21:12.840 --> 0:21:15.520 vacancy de control, which is like kicking people out so 0:21:15.560 --> 0:21:17.960 you can jack the rent over the ten percent limit. 0:21:18.000 --> 0:21:21.280 In California, like like right now, a landlord can raise 0:21:21.280 --> 0:21:25.280 the rent about ten percent every year if just just 0:21:25.320 --> 0:21:28.480 because they want to, but if you can get people 0:21:28.520 --> 0:21:29.960 out of the unit, you can raise it to whatever 0:21:30.000 --> 0:21:32.600 you want. So on the city level, it was just 0:21:32.640 --> 0:21:34.760 it was a really big deal. We had just won it, 0:21:34.800 --> 0:21:36.840 and we were like pretty exhausted from it. We're like, shit, 0:21:36.920 --> 0:21:38.920 that was a lot of work, and we won really quickly, 0:21:39.440 --> 0:21:41.359 and everybody around us that's been doing stuff for a 0:21:41.359 --> 0:21:42.679 while was like, we don't know how you guys did 0:21:42.720 --> 0:21:43.600 that shit so fast. 0:21:43.600 --> 0:21:46.920 That was really amazing. And then like I. 0:21:46.880 --> 0:21:48.960 Think it was like the week, like within a couple 0:21:49.000 --> 0:21:52.360 of days of us like celebrating that win course spaces 0:21:52.640 --> 0:21:55.560 the core spaces thing. Yeah, but this is but this 0:21:55.600 --> 0:21:58.120 is county jurisdiction. So we were like, okay, I guess 0:21:58.160 --> 0:21:59.680 we got to go from city account. We got to 0:21:59.680 --> 0:22:02.399 get the need to do the same fucking thing. So 0:22:02.440 --> 0:22:04.639 we were already really fucking exhausted, like we were. There 0:22:04.720 --> 0:22:06.840 was like a sprint sprint sprint sprint, like every week. 0:22:07.200 --> 0:22:10.520 So the reason I'm bringing this up is it just 0:22:10.520 --> 0:22:13.159 felt like natural for us to just like and we 0:22:13.160 --> 0:22:15.320 don't like tell people what to do, like not to 0:22:15.560 --> 0:22:17.520 not like correcting you, Sam, But when it's like Okay, 0:22:17.560 --> 0:22:19.119 do this, do this, do this, it's sort of like 0:22:19.840 --> 0:22:22.240 we ourselves are just tenants. We're not paid staff, we're 0:22:22.240 --> 0:22:25.760 not like highly trained like nonprofit staffers or something like 0:22:25.800 --> 0:22:29.000 that that I think we know everything. We're just tenants 0:22:29.040 --> 0:22:31.080 ourselves that are in the struggle just like everyone else, 0:22:31.160 --> 0:22:34.880 and we're trying to gain information, share information, and become 0:22:34.920 --> 0:22:37.359 collectively smarter and more experienced and better at handling the 0:22:37.400 --> 0:22:40.119 shit together. And so we were like, hey, we just 0:22:40.359 --> 0:22:42.720 won some shit on the city level. If you guys, 0:22:42.760 --> 0:22:45.359 throw all of all of you, which is like a 0:22:45.400 --> 0:22:48.919 lot of you straight to those county meetings. And the 0:22:48.920 --> 0:22:53.640 county meetings are every Tuesday at nine am and they 0:22:53.720 --> 0:22:55.960 go back and forth every week between Santa Barbara and 0:22:56.000 --> 0:22:57.800 Santa Maria. Santa Maria is like an hour to hour 0:22:57.840 --> 0:23:00.960 and a half drive from where they live, so that's 0:23:01.040 --> 0:23:04.240 like pretty unrealistic for most people to not only get 0:23:04.240 --> 0:23:06.920 work off and stuff like that, but like that upcoming 0:23:06.920 --> 0:23:09.200 Tuesday from that meeting we had that Saturday. They just 0:23:09.240 --> 0:23:10.840 happen to be in Santa Barbara, which is more like 0:23:10.840 --> 0:23:11.920 a ten to fifteen minute. 0:23:11.760 --> 0:23:13.320 Drive like down the streets. 0:23:13.320 --> 0:23:16.439 So we're like, okay, there's the fucking meeting, like we 0:23:16.560 --> 0:23:19.399 want to try to get people there. And so the 0:23:20.520 --> 0:23:23.119 you know, the news it was like hought off the 0:23:23.160 --> 0:23:25.320 presses for a week or two. There was all these 0:23:25.440 --> 0:23:32.480 articles on the crisis, and then so that Tuesday morning, 0:23:32.600 --> 0:23:34.800 all of them going and hitting the public comment, hitting 0:23:34.840 --> 0:23:37.800 the mic, and and I should say like public comment 0:23:37.960 --> 0:23:40.800 is typically anybody who's like gone to the public comment 0:23:41.000 --> 0:23:43.280 at a city or count like a government meeting, there's 0:23:43.359 --> 0:23:45.879 usually one or two people that are just like really weird, 0:23:46.160 --> 0:23:48.560 like they are they're like human on they're like human 0:23:48.600 --> 0:23:51.280 on people, or they are like or like they're like 0:23:51.320 --> 0:23:54.000 the next door care in person that's complaining about, like 0:23:55.000 --> 0:23:57.560 I don't know, some stupid stupid shit that nobody gives 0:23:57.560 --> 0:24:00.600 a fuck about. But like sometimes that person actually gets 0:24:00.840 --> 0:24:03.520 something changed because they actually complain over and over again. 0:24:04.280 --> 0:24:07.320 And then there's actual agenda items in these government meetings 0:24:09.000 --> 0:24:13.720 and having this many people like totally flood of public 0:24:13.760 --> 0:24:16.280 comment just for one issue as if it's on the agenda, 0:24:16.960 --> 0:24:21.159 is like it's kind of jaw dropping, right, So people 0:24:21.240 --> 0:24:24.080 just went so crazy with it. People got off of work, 0:24:24.119 --> 0:24:27.520 they were monolingual Spanish speakers. They just spoke in Spanish 0:24:27.560 --> 0:24:28.960 and there's a live interpreter. 0:24:28.600 --> 0:24:30.320 That they legally have to have at the county meeting. 0:24:31.119 --> 0:24:35.760 So on Wednesday, the county supervisors called an emergency meeting 0:24:36.080 --> 0:24:39.479 for Thursday, and on Thursday they passed the Emergency just 0:24:39.520 --> 0:24:42.840 Caused Ordinance, which was just basically copy pasting the city 0:24:43.560 --> 0:24:46.520 ordinance that we'd just won after the six week like marathon. 0:24:47.119 --> 0:24:49.639 So I don't know if you if you caught all that, 0:24:49.680 --> 0:24:50.720 but like that's how from. 0:24:50.640 --> 0:24:52.919 All perspectives, is like don't we don't live in the building. 0:24:52.960 --> 0:24:54.920 We just like we just try to make shit happen. 0:24:55.480 --> 0:24:58.920 Like it was insane of like how quickly because it 0:24:58.960 --> 0:25:00.760 took us about six weeks for the city thing, which 0:25:00.800 --> 0:25:02.920 was still like everyone told us, like that's rapid fire. 0:25:03.000 --> 0:25:05.320 Laws don't get changed that quickly, and this was like 0:25:05.359 --> 0:25:06.400 two weeks or some shit. 0:25:06.960 --> 0:25:08.800 Yeah, I was. I was stunned by this when I 0:25:08.800 --> 0:25:10.040 was reading about these, like this is one of the 0:25:10.080 --> 0:25:13.439 fastest like, this is one of the fastest campaigns I've 0:25:13.440 --> 0:25:17.040 ever seen, Like I don't know, like I we've we've 0:25:17.119 --> 0:25:21.720 run into like Chicago City Council before, for example, and they, 0:25:22.680 --> 0:25:28.000 oh boy, those people are yeah yeah, so yeah, it 0:25:28.080 --> 0:25:31.240 was a really impressive campaign that you all were able 0:25:31.280 --> 0:25:32.240 to pull off. 0:25:32.400 --> 0:25:38.119 Like yeah, but and this narrative is if we wanted 0:25:38.119 --> 0:25:40.040 to like really make this in a curated way, we 0:25:40.040 --> 0:25:44.040 could probably have like hopeful, we could have inspirational background music. 0:25:44.080 --> 0:25:45.880 Then we could have like horror music, and we could 0:25:45.880 --> 0:25:48.119 have because I mean, I don't know, Sam, if you 0:25:48.160 --> 0:25:48.800 want to take it from that. 0:25:48.880 --> 0:25:51.159 But there's also been some very dark turns since. 0:25:50.920 --> 0:25:55.639 That, Yeah, like very dark, depressing, scary turns because the 0:25:55.720 --> 0:25:57.399 minute well all this, I guess I'll just say it. 0:25:57.440 --> 0:25:59.639 If we want to go deeper into we can or 0:26:00.160 --> 0:26:03.800 skip it. But like as soon as we were really excited, 0:26:03.840 --> 0:26:06.760 like okay, they can't like what we just did makes 0:26:06.760 --> 0:26:09.080 it illegal for them to evict everyone like for now 0:26:09.080 --> 0:26:11.679 because they don't have permits. And oh oh and this 0:26:11.760 --> 0:26:13.960 is this is actually really like important kind of legal 0:26:14.000 --> 0:26:17.600 fact is that that what the law said was that 0:26:18.040 --> 0:26:23.040 this notice applies to any current notices posted to tenant 0:26:23.080 --> 0:26:25.560 stores like after this date, as well as unlawful detainers. 0:26:25.640 --> 0:26:28.440 Unlawful detainer is a fancy term for an eviction lawsuit. 0:26:29.040 --> 0:26:33.920 So so basically like any eviction lawsuit that Course Spaces 0:26:33.920 --> 0:26:37.040 would try to file against any of the two hundred 0:26:37.040 --> 0:26:41.639 and fifty plus people would be they would just be 0:26:41.680 --> 0:26:43.840 tossed out in court because they're just like you. You know, 0:26:44.359 --> 0:26:46.320 an eviction defense attorney would just point to the law 0:26:46.320 --> 0:26:48.480 and be like, the new law says you have to 0:26:48.520 --> 0:26:49.520 do X, Y and Z, and they didn't. 0:26:49.560 --> 0:26:50.560 They be like, yeah, you're right. 0:26:51.320 --> 0:26:54.639 It's just very there's nothing ambiguous. It's not it's not 0:26:54.680 --> 0:26:56.439 a great area. It's not like you can interpret it 0:26:56.440 --> 0:26:58.399 this or that way. It's just not you can't. 0:26:58.440 --> 0:26:58.879 You can't. 0:26:59.000 --> 0:27:02.280 There's no like, there's no like the other side we 0:27:02.400 --> 0:27:04.320 say like, well what about this and this, there's no 0:27:04.400 --> 0:27:09.080 well there's no other thing. But immediately, like almost immediately, 0:27:09.080 --> 0:27:12.240 within like a week or something, the other side started 0:27:12.280 --> 0:27:18.359 countering with like insane propaganda, like like disinformation, which I 0:27:18.359 --> 0:27:20.680 guess I'm kind of taking up a lot of space now, 0:27:20.680 --> 0:27:23.359 but Sam, I don't know if you want to, because 0:27:23.400 --> 0:27:26.720 you're actually there with all the people having being foresped 0:27:27.119 --> 0:27:31.680 the disinformation but by by Tyne Taylor, Fox, Howard Lop 0:27:31.880 --> 0:27:38.480 and four spaces vertically integrated private equity piece of shit firm. 0:27:39.240 --> 0:27:46.080 Yeah, so the emergency ordinance passed and we all were like, yay, 0:27:46.280 --> 0:27:51.320 this is great, we have protections. But then yeah, that 0:27:51.400 --> 0:27:55.800 law firm decided to well that end management. Actually, I 0:27:55.840 --> 0:27:59.359 think prior to the law firm's notices on our door, 0:27:59.680 --> 0:28:03.800 man went around being like like, come pick up your checks. 0:28:03.840 --> 0:28:07.159 These aren't you know, like you need you need to 0:28:07.160 --> 0:28:09.800 go take your checks, You need to sign that you're leaving, 0:28:09.880 --> 0:28:14.960 et cetera. And when that notice from the the Tyne 0:28:15.040 --> 0:28:17.600 Law Firm came signed by Lacy Taylor. 0:28:18.080 --> 0:28:20.320 It Lay Taylor reported. 0:28:19.920 --> 0:28:24.560 To the bar it basically said, this doesn't apply to you, 0:28:25.040 --> 0:28:27.520 and if you I mean, okay, this is my interpretation 0:28:27.600 --> 0:28:32.679 of it. When I read it as a just you know, 0:28:33.119 --> 0:28:38.840 random human being, not a law major or anything, it 0:28:39.200 --> 0:28:43.040 sounded like they would take our relocation checks and or 0:28:43.360 --> 0:28:47.960 charge us more money if we bought back. That's the 0:28:48.000 --> 0:28:50.400 way it was phrased. Granted, I know it was like 0:28:50.600 --> 0:28:55.920 law jargon, but it was made to almost like, in 0:28:55.960 --> 0:29:01.640 my opinion, harass us. Like it felt like, oh, everything 0:29:01.960 --> 0:29:06.040 the course basis tennasalization and SBT is saying is a lie. 0:29:06.840 --> 0:29:09.240 This is the truth. If you want to join them 0:29:09.240 --> 0:29:11.200 and be with them, well you might not get your 0:29:11.200 --> 0:29:14.800 relocation assistance check and or we might charge you more 0:29:14.840 --> 0:29:19.000 from that, at least with that specific notice. It was 0:29:19.440 --> 0:29:25.120 super confusing. And you know, most people here don't have 0:29:25.240 --> 0:29:28.000 law degrees. They don't they don't know the law. On 0:29:28.080 --> 0:29:34.240 top of that, you know, the law firm intentionally left 0:29:34.320 --> 0:29:37.680 out the last part of the ordinance. They said, hey, 0:29:37.720 --> 0:29:40.720 this doesn't apply to you because the eviction notice were 0:29:42.520 --> 0:29:46.760 issued before this, but it left out the unlawful detainer part. 0:29:47.560 --> 0:29:51.560 Yes, so it was it's lying by omission. 0:29:53.080 --> 0:29:55.600 It's like I wish I had a good movie example 0:29:55.680 --> 0:29:59.040 or something, but like we've all seen this kind of thing, right, 0:29:59.080 --> 0:30:01.320 It's like you tell the person everything and then you 0:30:01.480 --> 0:30:03.320 kind of black out the last part of the sentence 0:30:03.480 --> 0:30:05.920 so that I don't know, I wish, I wish there 0:30:05.960 --> 0:30:07.840 was like an obvious movie thing to be like, look 0:30:07.840 --> 0:30:09.719 at what the villain did. So the person would like 0:30:10.840 --> 0:30:13.040 make the wrong choice like go down the wrong path 0:30:13.120 --> 0:30:15.040 in the forest or some shit right like, so they'd 0:30:15.040 --> 0:30:17.120 get attacked like like, that's what it did. 0:30:17.160 --> 0:30:17.880 That's what they did. 0:30:18.040 --> 0:30:20.600 That was that was exactly what they did. They literally 0:30:20.760 --> 0:30:24.160 quoted the new ordinance and then cut off the second 0:30:24.160 --> 0:30:26.280 half and put dot dot dot. 0:30:27.240 --> 0:30:31.080 Which was implying something else was there, right. 0:30:31.120 --> 0:30:34.120 I mean maybe maybe some English major was like, oh, 0:30:34.160 --> 0:30:36.000 I wonder what's in that dot dot dot, Like what's 0:30:36.000 --> 0:30:36.880 the rest of the quote. 0:30:37.480 --> 0:30:38.160 But that's the thing. 0:30:38.240 --> 0:30:41.400 That's the thing about like using abusing their power as lawyers, 0:30:42.080 --> 0:30:44.920 fancy letterhead and all this shit of knowing. And this 0:30:45.000 --> 0:30:47.440 goes back to like this this kind of diversity of 0:30:47.680 --> 0:30:48.480 class composition. 0:30:48.560 --> 0:30:48.680 Right. 0:30:48.720 --> 0:30:50.960 If this is a bunch of like super highly educated 0:30:51.800 --> 0:30:55.800 uh professionals, like either with law degrees or or whatever, 0:30:55.880 --> 0:30:57.560 they'd be like, Oh, I'm just going to jump onto 0:30:57.560 --> 0:31:00.400 the county, you know. I'm gonna like look up the 0:31:00.520 --> 0:31:03.200 ordinance and be like, oh, it's Ordnance five to one whatever, 0:31:03.360 --> 0:31:04.880 and I'm going to read through it and be like, Aha, 0:31:04.960 --> 0:31:07.840 they left out the unlawful detainer. But like, how my 0:31:07.920 --> 0:31:11.560 guess is almost zero of the tenants to receive those 0:31:11.600 --> 0:31:12.360 notices did that. 0:31:12.840 --> 0:31:15.200 And that was that was the law firm. That was 0:31:15.280 --> 0:31:16.200 That was Tyne. 0:31:16.040 --> 0:31:18.960 And Taylor and Fox and Howard and whoever the fuck 0:31:19.160 --> 0:31:22.800 else's is involved in their in their you know, fraudulent 0:31:22.920 --> 0:31:26.440 joke of a firm there. Their whole thing was they 0:31:26.480 --> 0:31:28.520 wanted to scare people to get to get them the 0:31:28.520 --> 0:31:30.360 self evict. Right, So if you think about like the 0:31:30.440 --> 0:31:33.960 logistics of like like okay, let's say you're a you're 0:31:33.960 --> 0:31:36.600 a landlord firm that works for landlords, and. 0:31:36.520 --> 0:31:39.960 You you evict people and you get paid a lot. 0:31:39.880 --> 0:31:41.840 Of money to do so, Right, So you get paid 0:31:41.880 --> 0:31:45.320 some retainer amount that's like I don't know, tens of 0:31:45.320 --> 0:31:48.480 thousands or more just for just for like being on 0:31:48.520 --> 0:31:50.120 a call to do stuff for them, and then and 0:31:50.160 --> 0:31:55.200 then maybe you get paid of other amounts. You you're 0:31:55.240 --> 0:31:57.480 looking at you're looking at a situation like this, and 0:31:57.480 --> 0:32:00.719 you're like, okay, two hundred and fifty units and then 0:32:00.720 --> 0:32:03.920 there's somewhere between five hundred and one thousand people, and like, 0:32:03.960 --> 0:32:05.600 you know, you don't need to evict the little kids, 0:32:05.640 --> 0:32:08.760 but like you need to evict like every person on 0:32:08.800 --> 0:32:12.000 the lease. Like that's a lot of unlawful detainers. Like 0:32:12.040 --> 0:32:13.680 that's a lot of filing that we're going to have 0:32:13.720 --> 0:32:16.640 to do, meaning we're going to have to like get 0:32:16.680 --> 0:32:19.760 every single name and every single lease, and we're going 0:32:19.840 --> 0:32:23.800 to have to like every individual person on every lease, 0:32:24.440 --> 0:32:26.920 we're going to have to file an eviction lawsuit in 0:32:26.960 --> 0:32:29.000 the court that we know is going to get tossed out. 0:32:29.320 --> 0:32:31.280 Like that's so much fucking work for us to do. 0:32:31.720 --> 0:32:33.800 We don't want to do all that work. That's insane, right, 0:32:33.880 --> 0:32:35.640 Like we we want to kind of just keep this 0:32:35.720 --> 0:32:39.600 retainer money and do like minimal work, like because we 0:32:39.600 --> 0:32:41.760 also don't have it. It's a four person law firm, 0:32:41.920 --> 0:32:44.000 and they probably have some legal assistance, but like, do 0:32:44.120 --> 0:32:45.880 they really have the capacity to do something of that 0:32:45.920 --> 0:32:49.120 scale like this little slimy, garbage trash fire of a 0:32:49.160 --> 0:32:52.360 fucking firm, of course not. What their strategy was was 0:32:52.360 --> 0:32:55.920 to was to scare people through lying with abusing their 0:32:55.920 --> 0:32:58.200 power as much as possible to empty out that building 0:32:58.560 --> 0:33:04.720 so there'd be no need to file eviction lawsuits and 0:33:04.720 --> 0:33:08.440 and do the bidding of their of course spaces without 0:33:09.040 --> 0:33:12.760 going to court knowing they would lose. Right, So that's 0:33:12.800 --> 0:33:15.240 anybody listening, by the way, this is not like this 0:33:15.320 --> 0:33:17.600 actually isn't about course Bass or the time law firm, 0:33:17.680 --> 0:33:21.080 Like this is just a strategic set of like a 0:33:21.240 --> 0:33:25.560 methodology for an industry that views human beings as obstacles 0:33:25.560 --> 0:33:30.360 to profit in in a hyper commodified real estate you know, 0:33:30.480 --> 0:33:31.320 capitalist market. 0:33:31.440 --> 0:33:32.120 Like that's all this is. 0:33:32.160 --> 0:33:35.040 We're just describing like like a normal process that's happening 0:33:35.040 --> 0:33:35.520 at this point. 0:33:35.680 --> 0:33:39.200 Yeah, And something something we've talked about in other like 0:33:40.560 --> 0:33:42.520 tenant struggles is that, I mean one of the things 0:33:42.520 --> 0:33:45.160 that yeah, I'm not going to I'm not going to 0:33:45.280 --> 0:33:46.960 use a specific law firm of doing this, but it's 0:33:46.960 --> 0:33:48.920 something we've seen in other places is like, you know, 0:33:48.960 --> 0:33:51.520 you'll get landlords who will just fire just file like 0:33:51.640 --> 0:33:54.840 mass file just illegal evictions, and they do it because 0:33:54.880 --> 0:33:56.440 you know, okay, so if they get caught, like nothing 0:33:56.480 --> 0:33:58.760 happens to them, right Like, but if they don't gay cut, 0:33:58.760 --> 0:34:00.560 you know this this is an enormous were people who 0:34:00.560 --> 0:34:01.960 you could just throw out and not have to go 0:34:02.000 --> 0:34:04.640 through any kind of legal process with and so yeah, 0:34:04.840 --> 0:34:08.759 these like you know, like it's like this goes back 0:34:08.800 --> 0:34:10.840 to the old, the old sort of capitalism problem, right, 0:34:10.880 --> 0:34:12.680 which is like the easiest way to make money just 0:34:12.719 --> 0:34:16.200 by taking it from someone, and the second eiastest way 0:34:16.239 --> 0:34:18.920 is by is in you know, like it's like the 0:34:18.960 --> 0:34:20.960 one that's even easier than that is you is you 0:34:21.040 --> 0:34:23.000 lie to them and trick them into either trick them 0:34:23.080 --> 0:34:24.920 or intimidate them, and she's giving you the money without 0:34:24.920 --> 0:34:29.000 having to like actually fight them. H And yeah, it's 0:34:29.040 --> 0:34:31.960 you know what they're doing here, it is legal terrorism. 0:34:32.320 --> 0:34:35.960 Yeah, and I I reported Lacey Taylor to the bar. 0:34:36.080 --> 0:34:38.360 I don't know, Lacey. I'm sure you're listening to this if. 0:34:38.239 --> 0:34:40.880 You if they even notified you, But it was it 0:34:40.920 --> 0:34:43.920 was a bit frustrating because they were just like, yeah, 0:34:43.920 --> 0:34:46.400 this isn't really like we can't really do anything about this. 0:34:46.760 --> 0:34:48.879 It has to be a matter that's settled in civil court. 0:34:49.040 --> 0:34:52.000 And so it's definitely frustrating. So it's like, no, like 0:34:52.040 --> 0:34:53.560 this is just straight up lying. This is not like 0:34:53.560 --> 0:34:55.520 an interpretation of the law. But I do think like 0:34:56.000 --> 0:34:57.680 this is as a side note, like this is the 0:34:57.719 --> 0:35:01.959 issue with you can have like evil ass people who 0:35:02.040 --> 0:35:05.080 are trying to make people homeless in order to retenant. 0:35:05.160 --> 0:35:07.040 That's the kind of language of these these firms views. 0:35:07.040 --> 0:35:10.600 The word is retenant in the building, You're just retenanting, 0:35:10.680 --> 0:35:12.720 right like that that's the sort of real estate capitalist 0:35:12.760 --> 0:35:17.080 law firm or that's the industry like language, right that, 0:35:17.239 --> 0:35:19.319 Like there's just there we got lawyers for that, right, Like, 0:35:19.360 --> 0:35:21.040 we have a thing we want to do and this 0:35:21.120 --> 0:35:22.480 is just the wild West, and we just want to 0:35:22.480 --> 0:35:24.080 make a lot of money, and we just have like 0:35:24.480 --> 0:35:27.320 stacks of lawyers just on deck that we'll just pay 0:35:27.480 --> 0:35:29.640 to do this. And then you even have like these 0:35:29.680 --> 0:35:32.200 state bar associations that are like, well, yeah, that's just 0:35:32.200 --> 0:35:34.880 how it is, man. Probably most likely because like on 0:35:34.960 --> 0:35:37.520 the side of real estate, I guess I'm like making 0:35:37.600 --> 0:35:39.799 up this number. The eighty percent of the lawyers working 0:35:39.840 --> 0:35:41.680 in real estate are on the side of landlords, and 0:35:41.719 --> 0:35:43.920 then maybe twenty percent, probably way less than twenty two. 0:35:44.040 --> 0:35:46.879 Yeah, that's high on the side of tenants. 0:35:46.600 --> 0:35:48.879 Right, And then some of the landlord tenants sometimes will 0:35:48.880 --> 0:35:51.759 help tenants, right, so they can like brag it at 0:35:51.800 --> 0:35:53.960 their little wine and cheese things like, oh, I help 0:35:54.000 --> 0:35:55.960 the people or whatever, and I donate to charities or 0:35:56.000 --> 0:35:58.680 some garbage. But they at the end of the day, 0:35:58.600 --> 0:36:01.960 they're just they're happy to make people die of starvation on. 0:36:01.960 --> 0:36:03.560 The street so that somebody else can make a shit 0:36:03.600 --> 0:36:04.160 ton of money. 0:36:04.760 --> 0:36:08.480 Yeah, this has been nickeld happen here. Join us tomorrow 0:36:08.520 --> 0:36:10.759 for part two of this interview, in which the landlords 0:36:10.800 --> 0:36:28.480 do were bullshit. Welcome to Dinick had appen here a 0:36:28.520 --> 0:36:32.400 podcast about landlords doing bullshit and how you can stop them. Today, 0:36:32.440 --> 0:36:35.200 we're continuing our interview with two tenants in California fighting 0:36:35.200 --> 0:36:40.440 a massive diction by landlord Ghouls Core spaces Enjoy. Yeah, 0:36:40.520 --> 0:36:42.640 something else I wanted to ask about that I'd heard 0:36:42.680 --> 0:36:47.040 about was like harassment from the guards and the fact 0:36:47.080 --> 0:36:49.600 that there suddenly started being security guards after this started. 0:36:51.600 --> 0:36:53.520 Yeah, either you want to talk about that a bit. 0:36:54.680 --> 0:36:58.120 I yeah, I would love to talk about that. So 0:36:58.320 --> 0:37:02.160 I have lived here for almost three years. We did 0:37:02.200 --> 0:37:05.400 have security. I want to say it was saturdays between 0:37:06.440 --> 0:37:09.160 It was one security guard for all four buildings Saturdays 0:37:09.200 --> 0:37:14.040 between eleven pm and like three four am, just just 0:37:14.040 --> 0:37:16.840 one security guard that will walk around just during that time. 0:37:18.600 --> 0:37:22.440 Since course Basis has purchased the property, we have two 0:37:22.520 --> 0:37:27.680 to four twenty four to seven security guards. I know 0:37:28.280 --> 0:37:33.799 they're they're really They've made me personally super fucking uncomfortable. 0:37:34.239 --> 0:37:36.960 I've had them ask me where I live, Like when 0:37:37.000 --> 0:37:40.360 I'm going around canvassing right trying to get flyers people's stores, 0:37:40.480 --> 0:37:43.279 let them know like, hey, this is these are the 0:37:43.320 --> 0:37:46.480 actual facts. Stuff like that they've asked me like where, 0:37:46.600 --> 0:37:51.800 what building do you live in? What's your name? Creepy things, 0:37:51.840 --> 0:37:54.719 And I'm like, I'm not gonna tell you that I 0:37:54.760 --> 0:37:59.440 have no idea who you are. They walk past our 0:37:59.480 --> 0:38:03.720 apartment constantly. It's every time I go outside, they're waiting 0:38:03.800 --> 0:38:08.880 right outside the building. They're taking photos of the things 0:38:08.920 --> 0:38:12.200 across the buildings, like like stuff outside of people's units. 0:38:12.760 --> 0:38:19.440 It's really uncomfortable, and it's kind of telling because it's like, well, 0:38:19.440 --> 0:38:23.080 we never need a security before. Oh, but but once 0:38:23.120 --> 0:38:25.960 you bought the building and wanted to kick everyone out, Oh, 0:38:26.000 --> 0:38:28.760 all of a sudden, you're you're you know, you're hiring 0:38:29.840 --> 0:38:33.839 these random people, which I will also add one of 0:38:34.840 --> 0:38:37.319 our neighbors talk to one of the security guards. He 0:38:37.480 --> 0:38:41.359 worked there for a day and was like, yeah, they 0:38:41.400 --> 0:38:46.120 lowered my pay to like minimum wage. I'm not going Yeah, yeah, 0:38:46.280 --> 0:38:47.239 he literally don't. 0:38:49.080 --> 0:38:57.319 Maybe we should try to like help unionize. Yes, cources, 0:38:57.400 --> 0:39:01.040 you guys are such a Mark li and Chris Richards, 0:39:01.080 --> 0:39:04.640 you guys are the cheapest, stummiest human being planet. 0:39:05.040 --> 0:39:08.239 Right, And and he was like, yeah, I'm leaving, like 0:39:08.320 --> 0:39:12.680 I'm not gonna do this, this is stupid. But usually 0:39:12.719 --> 0:39:14.480 when I go out, you know. I mean for the 0:39:14.520 --> 0:39:17.440 most part, they're usually just sitting on their phone, standing 0:39:17.480 --> 0:39:20.000 in front of the entrance, locking the doors. 0:39:19.719 --> 0:39:20.680 Against normal cops. 0:39:20.680 --> 0:39:22.839 Stuff like that kind of Yeah. 0:39:22.880 --> 0:39:27.839 Well with yeah, well the standing around part of the 0:39:27.840 --> 0:39:31.080 cop chop so far, hopefully not the other part of 0:39:31.120 --> 0:39:33.600 the cop chop where they yeah. 0:39:33.280 --> 0:39:37.560 Minus any credentials. Basically not that I want cops here either, 0:39:37.840 --> 0:39:43.280 but but yeah, it's been in my own personal opinion, 0:39:43.440 --> 0:39:47.439 it's harassing behavior, you know, and it's in and I've 0:39:47.480 --> 0:39:52.399 talked to so many tenants here, especially again the more 0:39:52.400 --> 0:39:56.440 marginalized tenants. I'm not going to like specify them, but 0:39:56.840 --> 0:39:59.560 they're very intimidated by them, and they actually do think 0:39:59.560 --> 0:40:03.000 they are cops. They don't know that. No, these aren't 0:40:03.000 --> 0:40:07.319 police officers. They aren't trying to. They don't have the 0:40:07.360 --> 0:40:09.600 power to do certain things that you may be afraid of. 0:40:10.920 --> 0:40:14.400 Are they like, are they like in like like policy uniforms. 0:40:14.719 --> 0:40:17.880 Yeah, yeah, no, they have. Yeah, they have security uniforms. 0:40:17.880 --> 0:40:23.520 They have tasers on them. They they they like to 0:40:23.560 --> 0:40:24.440 direct their power. 0:40:25.120 --> 0:40:28.560 Yeah, it's probably not similar enough to be able to get 0:40:28.560 --> 0:40:30.400 them on a person, to get a police officer, but 0:40:31.200 --> 0:40:35.239 it's still really depressing that. Yeah, I don't know. 0:40:36.400 --> 0:40:38.759 But but and again, and the strategy is to get 0:40:38.800 --> 0:40:40.880 to it's to scare the ship out of people say. 0:40:41.080 --> 0:40:42.320 Yeah, it's just terror. 0:40:43.120 --> 0:40:46.680 Yeah yeah, it's it's uncomfortable. It's uncomfortable when you go 0:40:46.719 --> 0:40:49.200 out of your apartment and there's just some random person 0:40:49.280 --> 0:40:51.719 with a taser just like right next to you, and 0:40:51.719 --> 0:40:55.279 you're like, uh, I'm just trying to go check my mailbox, 0:40:55.400 --> 0:40:56.680 Like what the what the hell? 0:40:57.840 --> 0:40:58.200 Yeah? 0:40:59.520 --> 0:41:01.960 Yeah, well you guys are safer though, right, So that 0:41:02.120 --> 0:41:05.480 like that stuff happened like if a like if like 0:41:05.520 --> 0:41:08.839 if an evil landlord and their slimy, scummy evil law 0:41:08.880 --> 0:41:11.239 team were to try to like put you guys under 0:41:11.239 --> 0:41:13.400 the streets, the security guards would come and defend you 0:41:13.400 --> 0:41:13.839 against them. 0:41:13.880 --> 0:41:14.080 Right. 0:41:15.680 --> 0:41:17.640 Oh wait, no, I am I mixed up. 0:41:18.480 --> 0:41:20.920 Oh they're here to serve the evil people trying to 0:41:20.920 --> 0:41:22.040 put you on the streets. 0:41:22.719 --> 0:41:23.680 Oh that's minimum. 0:41:26.719 --> 0:41:28.880 Yeah, I mean that's the sad thing too, is that 0:41:28.880 --> 0:41:31.000 that the security guards are probably going to get renevicted 0:41:31.000 --> 0:41:34.399 by like the Homeboys of the Core Spaces executives at 0:41:34.400 --> 0:41:38.040 some point, right, Like yeah, uh, they're they're going to 0:41:38.080 --> 0:41:40.600 get renovicted. Somebody is going to look at their wherever 0:41:40.640 --> 0:41:42.840 they're living as a as a low performing asset that 0:41:42.920 --> 0:41:44.359 needs to be retenanted and ship. 0:41:45.360 --> 0:41:48.840 Yeah, so yeah, I don't. So that's fun. That's cool. 0:41:49.280 --> 0:41:53.359 I don't I don't blame I know, I understand the job. 0:41:53.400 --> 0:41:55.799 I don't blame them. I guess as individuals, well, some 0:41:55.840 --> 0:41:58.000 of them, I do, because they're clearly on power trips. 0:41:58.040 --> 0:42:03.399 They like to enforce their power. But I do understand 0:42:04.640 --> 0:42:08.480 that they are being hired outside to do a job. 0:42:08.560 --> 0:42:14.000 But it's it's really not fun. I couldn't imagine ever, Yeah, 0:42:14.520 --> 0:42:17.640 doing that myself, I wouldn't feel right. But I don't know. 0:42:17.760 --> 0:42:21.200 You know, everyone, we're all suffering right like that. You know, 0:42:21.360 --> 0:42:24.440 we're all trying to survive. So I try not to 0:42:24.520 --> 0:42:26.960 judge too much, but I can't help it. When you 0:42:27.000 --> 0:42:30.000 know they're taking photos inside the windows of my apartment, 0:42:30.120 --> 0:42:31.920 it's sucking creepy, like. 0:42:33.680 --> 0:42:35.320 Yeah, pretty creepy. 0:42:36.960 --> 0:42:37.480 Yeah, I guess. 0:42:37.520 --> 0:42:40.040 Okay, is there anything else that you two want to 0:42:40.040 --> 0:42:41.160 specifically wanted to talk about. 0:42:41.920 --> 0:42:44.040 Let's see, we got the beginning, so we got the 0:42:44.160 --> 0:42:46.920 law passed, and then we got the slimy. 0:42:48.200 --> 0:42:48.520 Tie. 0:42:48.560 --> 0:42:54.280 Taylor Fox Howard, LLP, Garbage Law Firm, came along. Well, okay, 0:42:54.320 --> 0:42:56.759 so one one thing that's been a struggle, and I 0:42:56.800 --> 0:42:58.759 would say, like Sam and a couple others have been 0:43:00.040 --> 0:43:02.960 it's just nuts to me, like how much stamina. Well no, actually, 0:43:03.000 --> 0:43:05.719 let me say this, like, uh so I am. I 0:43:05.719 --> 0:43:07.560 am a mental professional, which I don't like to say 0:43:07.600 --> 0:43:09.440 in organizing spaces a lot because I don't like to 0:43:09.440 --> 0:43:10.439 mix up the role too much. 0:43:10.440 --> 0:43:13.480 But like, straight up, everybody I talk to in. 0:43:13.400 --> 0:43:16.400 These situations, like in the role of like tenant organizer, 0:43:16.480 --> 0:43:20.360 not not like therapists. It's just everything reeks of PTSD symptoms, 0:43:20.400 --> 0:43:23.480 Like straight up, like people can't sleep, people are hyper vigilant. 0:43:23.520 --> 0:43:26.200 They're going out to their car and they're looking around 0:43:26.200 --> 0:43:28.520 to see if there's a security guard. They're in constant fear, 0:43:28.560 --> 0:43:32.279 they're confused there, you know, their their startle responses up, 0:43:32.320 --> 0:43:34.120 which is which is hyper vigulous. I mean there's literally 0:43:34.120 --> 0:43:36.279 you can pick up a fucking ds M five and 0:43:36.320 --> 0:43:40.319 look at the definition of PTSD and I would say, uh, 0:43:40.520 --> 0:43:42.080 I can't say everyone. I haven't talked to everyone in 0:43:42.120 --> 0:43:45.000 the building, but I mean this process creates fucking PTSD. 0:43:45.120 --> 0:43:48.000 Like I'm not exaggerating, I'm not making this up. And 0:43:48.040 --> 0:43:50.279 also because the mental health fields, as a side note, 0:43:50.360 --> 0:43:53.879 is such a like neoliberal, individualistic, fucking trash fire. It's 0:43:53.880 --> 0:43:56.239 hard to actually look at this correctly to say like 0:43:56.960 --> 0:43:58.719 this is this is like a mass like trauma of it. 0:43:58.840 --> 0:44:01.600 But despite the mass rama that everybody experiences with this, 0:44:02.560 --> 0:44:04.800 the resilience in it of being like Okay, we're still. 0:44:04.640 --> 0:44:06.040 Going to go out and we're going to flyer and 0:44:06.080 --> 0:44:06.920 we're going to knock. 0:44:06.760 --> 0:44:09.680 On doors and so like, there's been this phase, like 0:44:09.680 --> 0:44:12.480 a two part kind of phase, which has been continuing 0:44:12.520 --> 0:44:14.719 to talk to the county supervisors to try to get 0:44:14.760 --> 0:44:17.239 them to pass a stronger law because there's kind of 0:44:17.239 --> 0:44:20.520 this race now where if and when course Spaces gets permits, 0:44:20.960 --> 0:44:25.160 then they can send out like actually proper notices, although 0:44:25.360 --> 0:44:27.359 maybe there'll be problems of the notices and that can 0:44:27.400 --> 0:44:30.960 be addressed or whatever, but like it is, it is 0:44:31.040 --> 0:44:32.719 kind of just buying time, right if they if they 0:44:32.760 --> 0:44:34.879 get permits and then they try to evict everybody, then 0:44:35.000 --> 0:44:40.160 then then there's the actual sixty day uh like countdown, 0:44:40.239 --> 0:44:43.839 I guess, depending depending on a lot of different factors. Right, 0:44:43.840 --> 0:44:47.000 But so the county one of the supervisors said, you know, 0:44:47.040 --> 0:44:48.960 I want to I want to make like the most 0:44:49.280 --> 0:44:52.320 gruesome speed bump to you know, to speed bump is 0:44:52.360 --> 0:44:54.719 eviction for core spaces. And so what they did is 0:44:54.840 --> 0:44:56.480 it is a big speed bump, but it actually doesn't 0:44:56.480 --> 0:44:58.600 like solve the problem. Would solve the problem is either 0:44:58.920 --> 0:45:01.000 a no fault eviction more toorium, which is be like 0:45:01.080 --> 0:45:04.480 really broad. We're not sure how how what the chances 0:45:04.520 --> 0:45:07.040 are getting them to pass that. But another thing would 0:45:07.040 --> 0:45:09.200 be it's usually called right to return, but we're calling 0:45:09.200 --> 0:45:10.759 it right to re rent because right to return, I 0:45:10.760 --> 0:45:12.920 guess is a thing that like I don't know, I 0:45:12.920 --> 0:45:14.800 don't know, like Ziona say or something I don't know. 0:45:14.960 --> 0:45:17.000 Yeah, it's a whole right r right. 0:45:17.040 --> 0:45:18.640 So so, but right to re rent, which is like 0:45:18.640 --> 0:45:21.560 a thing that is in several other other cities and counties, 0:45:21.920 --> 0:45:24.520 which just means like if the landlord legitimately needs to 0:45:24.560 --> 0:45:28.040 make renovations because of like safety, inhabitability concerns or whatever, 0:45:28.760 --> 0:45:31.440 they have to relook relocate the tenant temporarily, and then 0:45:31.520 --> 0:45:34.680 they they have to re rent to the tenant for 0:45:35.080 --> 0:45:35.480 what we were. 0:45:35.400 --> 0:45:36.400 Asking is the same rent. 0:45:36.600 --> 0:45:39.480 We also think that like using the using the ten 0:45:39.520 --> 0:45:43.000 percent a year framework would be fine, like relocate them 0:45:43.000 --> 0:45:44.520 and then raise it by ten percent if you didn't 0:45:44.520 --> 0:45:46.839 already once that year, right, just just treat it as 0:45:46.840 --> 0:45:50.120 a normal thing. Like so if we get them to 0:45:50.120 --> 0:45:52.360 pass that law, then they can divict anybody. 0:45:52.520 --> 0:45:52.719 Right. 0:45:52.960 --> 0:45:54.800 So on the one hand, we're like really trying to 0:45:54.800 --> 0:45:58.160 get the supervisors to do this, and it's just sort 0:45:58.200 --> 0:46:01.239 of it's just unknown, like how how likely we are 0:46:01.480 --> 0:46:05.319 on that in this moment. But then simultaneously we need 0:46:05.360 --> 0:46:08.040 to continue kind of like educating the tenants on like 0:46:08.520 --> 0:46:12.840 on their rights because they keep like as of today, 0:46:14.200 --> 0:46:21.000 management started illegally in a racist way, targeting Spanish speaking 0:46:21.080 --> 0:46:26.239 Latino tenants telling them that that they have to pick 0:46:26.280 --> 0:46:27.960 up their checks right now. And Sam, you can correct 0:46:27.960 --> 0:46:29.319 it from but it's like you have to pick up 0:46:29.320 --> 0:46:32.480 your checks by today, I don't know, like next week 0:46:32.560 --> 0:46:32.920 or something. 0:46:32.960 --> 0:46:34.120 It's like really soon or. 0:46:34.080 --> 0:46:37.160 Otherwise, like you don't get your relocation money and then 0:46:37.200 --> 0:46:39.319 you're going to get into viction lawsuit and course space 0:46:39.400 --> 0:46:41.880 is already as permits. Just making up all the like 0:46:41.920 --> 0:46:43.560 all these things are lies. None of them they're true. 0:46:44.040 --> 0:46:46.000 I was just gonna say I'm white, so I actually 0:46:46.000 --> 0:46:49.400 didn't get that notice. But you are correct the Latina 0:46:49.440 --> 0:46:50.200 families take get that. 0:46:50.360 --> 0:46:53.799 Yeah, yeah, because course spaces are racist and John Tyne 0:46:53.880 --> 0:46:56.160 is a racist, and Lacy Taylor's a racist, and they're 0:46:56.200 --> 0:46:59.360 fucking evil pieces of shit. And I'm glad they're listening 0:46:59.360 --> 0:47:02.120 to this quote me as many fucking times as they 0:47:02.120 --> 0:47:05.879 want in any context. But so having to like try 0:47:05.920 --> 0:47:10.200 to counter those all that disinformation, all those lies is 0:47:10.239 --> 0:47:12.640 like this constant, like parallel process, like trying to get 0:47:12.640 --> 0:47:14.880 the county to do stuff, but trying to get people 0:47:14.880 --> 0:47:17.640 to like understand like, no, they're lying to you, right, 0:47:17.719 --> 0:47:19.680 like while they're in this like chronic state of kind 0:47:19.680 --> 0:47:21.960 of like PTSD, They're like where am I going to go? 0:47:22.000 --> 0:47:23.320 What am I going to do? What's happening? 0:47:23.760 --> 0:47:25.640 And it's hard for them to know who to trust 0:47:25.680 --> 0:47:28.640 because they're being pummeled with disinformation and lies from people 0:47:28.680 --> 0:47:29.719 with a lot of power over them. 0:47:32.040 --> 0:47:34.120 I don't know if you had anything else. Sorry, I 0:47:34.200 --> 0:47:35.000 kind of went off there. 0:47:35.560 --> 0:47:40.840 No, you're you're fine, It's yeah, that's that's kind of 0:47:40.880 --> 0:47:43.839 the way I see it as well. I guess what 0:47:43.880 --> 0:47:46.920 I would add is if the county doesn't do something, 0:47:47.520 --> 0:47:53.120 this is going to be horrible for the entire county 0:47:53.160 --> 0:47:55.319 of Santa rab Brah, but just California in general. I mean, 0:47:55.360 --> 0:47:57.000 you have to think of two one hundred and forty 0:47:57.040 --> 0:47:59.600 plus units, fifty whatever. We don't even know how many units. 0:47:59.640 --> 0:48:04.400 There's so many units here, it's like it's insane. If 0:48:04.440 --> 0:48:06.960 this is going to be so bad, where are these 0:48:06.960 --> 0:48:10.680 people going to go? If Santa Barbara has a from 0:48:10.680 --> 0:48:13.439 what I've heard, a one to two percent vacancy rate, 0:48:14.320 --> 0:48:17.600 these these these people have, including me as a person 0:48:17.640 --> 0:48:20.239 living here, have nowhere to go, I'm I will be 0:48:20.600 --> 0:48:23.320 entirely forced out of the county. Me and my partner, 0:48:23.520 --> 0:48:26.120 who holds a job here. He works as a delivery driver. 0:48:26.680 --> 0:48:29.080 He likes his job. It doesn't pay great, doesn't have 0:48:29.120 --> 0:48:32.320 good benefits, but he enjoys it and he's an important 0:48:32.320 --> 0:48:36.960 part of the community. And if all of these human 0:48:37.000 --> 0:48:39.680 beings are forced out of here, what is that going 0:48:39.760 --> 0:48:42.200 to do to Santa Barbara? Are you know who's going 0:48:42.280 --> 0:48:45.560 to who are going to be, the teachers, the healthcare professionals, 0:48:45.680 --> 0:48:53.239 the everything. I will say in addition to that, this 0:48:53.400 --> 0:48:57.360 is why we formed Course Basis Tenants Association with the 0:48:57.920 --> 0:49:03.000 help of SBTU, so that we can not only stay 0:49:03.040 --> 0:49:07.520 together and work together as a union to fight this, 0:49:08.080 --> 0:49:11.320 but also what course Spaces will likely do in the future. 0:49:11.600 --> 0:49:14.960 So we actually learned from the Santa Barbara Independent. They 0:49:15.040 --> 0:49:18.640 interviewed one of the I think was one of the 0:49:18.640 --> 0:49:22.759 Course Basis representatives who said this was they've done this 0:49:22.800 --> 0:49:27.080 forty six times and this is the first time they 0:49:27.200 --> 0:49:31.799 ever got this level of community outreach, which I was like, 0:49:32.320 --> 0:49:38.000 excuse me, what what we know that their executives are 0:49:38.640 --> 0:49:43.840 They've previously worked for Goldman, Sachs and Blackstone, and to 0:49:43.920 --> 0:49:47.120 find out they've done this forty at least forty six 0:49:47.239 --> 0:49:53.360 other times and just gotten away with it. Now, we're 0:49:53.400 --> 0:49:56.680 not going to keep letting that happen. And so whatever 0:49:56.719 --> 0:50:00.560 happens here at CBC in the sweeps are four bill things. 0:50:00.600 --> 0:50:03.000 However it turns out, and hopefully it turns out in 0:50:03.040 --> 0:50:07.839 our favor, We're not going to stop because they are 0:50:08.080 --> 0:50:13.160 further They're just going to keep continuing this and it's 0:50:13.520 --> 0:50:17.880 we it's disgusting. We can't keep letting this shit happen. 0:50:18.360 --> 0:50:21.320 Like someone needs to stop it. It needs to be stopped. 0:50:21.360 --> 0:50:24.960 And if I hope that we can get legislation to 0:50:25.000 --> 0:50:27.239 stop it, but if not, we're going to be a 0:50:27.280 --> 0:50:32.880 fighting force and we're not yeah, we're not stopping hell yeah. 0:50:32.920 --> 0:50:34.680 Oh and then I guess like, yeah, I don't think 0:50:34.680 --> 0:50:36.840 you really said this, but like if any other tenants 0:50:36.880 --> 0:50:39.960 that are you know, course Space as tenants wanted to 0:50:40.040 --> 0:50:43.520 join Sam and her neighbors, right, Like that's that was 0:50:43.640 --> 0:50:46.280 like you're saying Sam, Like the point was to create 0:50:46.320 --> 0:50:48.319 something like they could have They could have named it 0:50:48.320 --> 0:50:50.680 as more of a local thing like there their tendant Association, 0:50:50.760 --> 0:50:54.080 but they chose Course Spaces as the company name. Right, 0:50:54.120 --> 0:50:56.120 So like and if you're in Arizona, if you're in Tennessee, 0:50:56.160 --> 0:50:58.879 if you're in Seattle, Seattle or whatever, and you are 0:50:59.040 --> 0:51:01.160 people getting rid of it did by these people or 0:51:01.520 --> 0:51:03.160 or I don't know, you're just students like renting by 0:51:03.160 --> 0:51:05.759 the bed and they won't fix stuff or whatever, like 0:51:05.880 --> 0:51:09.160 you can join the course basis. Then association this very 0:51:09.160 --> 0:51:12.640 well could be like a national level organization. Like right 0:51:12.680 --> 0:51:14.279 now it's local, but it's been set up to be 0:51:14.480 --> 0:51:17.359 something that could be potentially national or international. Of course 0:51:17.400 --> 0:51:20.120 Bass wants to go you know, Capital and those now boarders, 0:51:20.120 --> 0:51:22.200 so they want to go fuck people up in other countries. 0:51:22.280 --> 0:51:27.600 Then you know, we can pay more interpreters I. 0:51:27.520 --> 0:51:32.239 Guess yeah, And I guess that's the thing I wanted 0:51:32.280 --> 0:51:35.799 to close on is like, you know, tennants unions are 0:51:35.840 --> 0:51:40.040 not composed of like some kind of like like special 0:51:40.080 --> 0:51:43.600 group of people, right, They're just people, right, Like I 0:51:44.000 --> 0:51:46.319 did it back what I was doing stuff right, and 0:51:46.480 --> 0:51:49.359 like it's just it's just composed of random people. And 0:51:49.440 --> 0:51:53.680 like that random person could very easily be you. And 0:51:53.719 --> 0:51:55.920 you know, yeah, so you're saying, like someone has to 0:51:55.920 --> 0:51:58.520 stop these people, and if it's not going to be that, 0:51:58.920 --> 0:52:00.960 it's not going to be you. The tenants fighting them 0:52:01.000 --> 0:52:03.080 like no one, no one is ever going to and 0:52:03.080 --> 0:52:04.920 they're just going to keep running people over forever. 0:52:06.080 --> 0:52:08.000 And politicians just aren't going to do this. I mean 0:52:08.600 --> 0:52:09.280 acted really. 0:52:09.200 --> 0:52:13.239 Quickly because of the like show of force from right, 0:52:13.400 --> 0:52:15.560 so they get like a cover from the constituency. We're like, oh, 0:52:15.600 --> 0:52:17.200 we're allowed to do this, Like we can do this, 0:52:17.360 --> 0:52:19.719 and or we're terrified of what will happen, like will 0:52:19.719 --> 0:52:22.879 this be like another police station burnt down if we 0:52:23.040 --> 0:52:25.239 pissed them off or something? Right, Like you actually have 0:52:25.320 --> 0:52:28.160 to sort of like make the politicians afraid of you. 0:52:28.280 --> 0:52:29.839 I mean you want to be their friends and stuff too. 0:52:29.880 --> 0:52:31.640 I'm not very good at that. I'm good at like 0:52:31.719 --> 0:52:33.360 scaring them, I guess, but like you have to like 0:52:33.400 --> 0:52:35.080 kind of scare them into acting. You have to like 0:52:35.080 --> 0:52:37.759 discipline the politicians in acting. So anybody that's like we 0:52:37.880 --> 0:52:40.560 just see more policies, it's like policies don't just happen, Like. 0:52:40.640 --> 0:52:44.319 Yeah, like the the like the Center burd people, It's like, yeah, 0:52:44.440 --> 0:52:46.200 they acted quickly when they were forced to. But you know, 0:52:46.239 --> 0:52:48.799 they could have literally at any time in the entire 0:52:48.880 --> 0:52:50.840 history of Santa Barbara, they could have just passed this, 0:52:51.520 --> 0:52:54.280 and they didn't until until you came for them. 0:52:54.880 --> 0:52:59.719 Right exactly, Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I think you're right 0:52:59.760 --> 0:53:03.520 about out like the Tennants Association, the Tennis Association being 0:53:03.719 --> 0:53:07.840 just we're random tenants. I'm not some politician, I'm not 0:53:07.920 --> 0:53:12.400 some leader. I'm a student, you know. I usually just 0:53:12.440 --> 0:53:15.800 spend my nights making dinner with my cats, watching Jeopardy, 0:53:16.040 --> 0:53:21.359 Like I don't do this. But the point being is 0:53:21.480 --> 0:53:24.120 when you come together as a group, you have power 0:53:24.320 --> 0:53:29.879 in numbers. And although I have faith that we will 0:53:29.880 --> 0:53:35.280 win against score spaces for our complex, even if we don't, 0:53:35.520 --> 0:53:39.680 we've left a huge mark and we've helped so many 0:53:39.719 --> 0:53:45.600 residents of Santa Barbara County. For maybe landlords that we're 0:53:45.640 --> 0:53:48.440 planning to change the stove out and not get permits, 0:53:48.480 --> 0:53:50.440 Well now they have to find a reason to get 0:53:50.440 --> 0:53:54.240 a permit. We've at least done that, but I think 0:53:54.360 --> 0:53:59.239 there's a lot more that we will do and can 0:53:59.360 --> 0:54:05.640 do actually against course spaces and their future endeavors their 0:54:05.680 --> 0:54:08.480 properties they decide that they want to overpay. 0:54:08.000 --> 0:54:12.680 For, yeah, I will throw out. Like one other resource 0:54:12.680 --> 0:54:15.960 that is like a group that's called the Autonomous Tenants 0:54:16.000 --> 0:54:19.040 Union Network, which is a network that SB two is 0:54:19.800 --> 0:54:22.480 a part of. Just if you are if you're in 0:54:22.560 --> 0:54:26.000 attendance union or you're interested in tenant organizing from anything. 0:54:25.640 --> 0:54:29.280 You've heard, they are there. It's like a network. 0:54:29.800 --> 0:54:32.080 Like the word autonomous again is like it's people who 0:54:32.120 --> 0:54:36.520 are sort of independent of various like you know, like nonprofits, 0:54:36.520 --> 0:54:39.759 foundations and governments just be sort of responsive just to 0:54:39.840 --> 0:54:43.560 tenants themselves. So I'm not like a representative of the 0:54:43.560 --> 0:54:47.240 group or au tuned, but it's a really strong network 0:54:47.239 --> 0:54:50.640 of really experienced organizers that are really intent on these 0:54:50.680 --> 0:54:52.760 kinds of things, right like forming like there's a crisis 0:54:53.160 --> 0:54:57.799 former tenant association, like organize your whole block, like get 0:54:57.800 --> 0:54:59.640 the politician to do a thing, go on rent. 0:54:59.520 --> 0:55:01.960 Strike like whatever. Right, this more sort of militant, like 0:55:02.400 --> 0:55:03.160 we desperate. 0:55:03.360 --> 0:55:08.200 Crisis requires us to you know, to meet the crisis 0:55:08.200 --> 0:55:09.600 where it's at and act that way. 0:55:09.680 --> 0:55:09.839 Right. 0:55:09.920 --> 0:55:12.440 So, and there's other resources and I'm sure you can 0:55:12.480 --> 0:55:14.920 have like show notes and stuff, you can have links. 0:55:14.640 --> 0:55:17.680 But yeah, other places specifically people can go if they 0:55:17.760 --> 0:55:19.960 want to help the struggle specifically. 0:55:20.680 --> 0:55:25.200 Yeah, so for core spaces Tenet Association, the social media 0:55:25.239 --> 0:55:29.120 handle is all core spaces t A. That that would 0:55:29.160 --> 0:55:34.200 be for Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, and TikTok. We have a 0:55:34.200 --> 0:55:37.000 go fundme going as well, just to pay for things 0:55:37.040 --> 0:55:40.279 like you know, food for events or I don't know, 0:55:40.360 --> 0:55:46.960 printing paper, flyering stuff like that. We also have an 0:55:46.960 --> 0:55:50.560 email that anyone can reach us at at core spaces 0:55:50.600 --> 0:55:53.120 TA at gmail dot com. 0:55:52.880 --> 0:55:54.239 And we will we will put all of that in 0:55:54.280 --> 0:55:54.880 the show notes. 0:55:55.800 --> 0:55:56.359 Sounds good. 0:55:57.000 --> 0:56:00.000 Thank you to so much for coming on, and yeah, 0:56:00.239 --> 0:56:01.440 go beat these sons of bitches. 0:56:02.760 --> 0:56:05.200 Yeah, let us swear. 0:56:05.480 --> 0:56:10.560 We're definitely making their lives a lot harder than they expected, 0:56:10.680 --> 0:56:11.799 which is kind of cool. 0:56:12.040 --> 0:56:15.359 But yeah, yes, let's been make it up in here, 0:56:15.400 --> 0:56:18.520 and yeah, you too can go make your landlords days 0:56:18.560 --> 0:56:20.360 worse and you and your day's better. 0:56:36.040 --> 0:56:38.960 Hello, welcome, this is what could happen here, and I 0:56:39.000 --> 0:56:42.919 am Sharene. Today I'm here to talk to you about, well, 0:56:43.360 --> 0:56:47.400 you guessed it, Palestine, but today is going to be 0:56:47.440 --> 0:56:50.200 a little different. I actually want to talk about olive 0:56:50.239 --> 0:56:55.240 trees and how the olive tree came to symbolize Palestinian 0:56:55.400 --> 0:56:59.319 national identity. The olive tree is not just symbolic as 0:56:59.360 --> 0:57:02.839 a symbolized their national identity, but the roots of it 0:57:03.200 --> 0:57:07.040 are far deeper pun intended. So let's get into it. 0:57:07.840 --> 0:57:12.359 Olive trees feature prominently in Palestinian art and literature as 0:57:12.400 --> 0:57:17.439 symbols of steadfastness amid a life of displacement. Palestinian olive 0:57:17.480 --> 0:57:21.000 trees are yet another target, however, for Israeli settlers and 0:57:21.080 --> 0:57:24.360 the IDF. And this is why I wanted to talk 0:57:24.400 --> 0:57:28.520 about this, because there's so much talk in Zionism about 0:57:28.520 --> 0:57:31.840 how sacred the land of Palestine is, how sacred their 0:57:31.960 --> 0:57:35.440 land is, the land that I will call Palestine, and 0:57:35.440 --> 0:57:38.600 how this land belongs to only them, the chosen people. 0:57:39.800 --> 0:57:42.760 But these chosen people are the same ones desecrating the 0:57:42.840 --> 0:57:46.520 land and quite literally pulling out trees from their roots, 0:57:47.240 --> 0:57:50.880 trees that have been there for centuries, been part of 0:57:50.880 --> 0:57:55.120 that land for centuries. I've never been able to reconcile 0:57:55.320 --> 0:57:59.360 that with what Zionism pretends to be. That they respect 0:57:59.480 --> 0:58:02.920 anything at all, not even the land they supposedly belong to. 0:58:03.840 --> 0:58:05.840 And it's just something I always think about when I 0:58:05.880 --> 0:58:09.760 read reports about olive trees being uprooted or chopped down. 0:58:10.560 --> 0:58:14.560 Isn't that the land you pretend to love? What could 0:58:14.600 --> 0:58:19.720 possibly be the Zionist rationale behind destroying the nature of 0:58:19.760 --> 0:58:25.080 that land. The olive tree encapsulates the Palestinian identity. It 0:58:25.160 --> 0:58:29.000 roots an entire nation to a land and livelihood lost 0:58:29.000 --> 0:58:32.960 to occupation, while serving as a potent symbol of resistance 0:58:33.080 --> 0:58:38.520 against the territorial encroachment of illegal settlements. The Mediterranean climate 0:58:38.640 --> 0:58:42.760 is pretty balmy, and olive trees have for centuries provided 0:58:42.800 --> 0:58:45.720 a steady source of income from both the sale of 0:58:45.760 --> 0:58:49.680 their fruit and their silky golden oil derived from the 0:58:49.720 --> 0:58:54.160 fruit aka olive oil. The land around the Sea of Galilee, 0:58:54.320 --> 0:58:58.200 which is an enclosed sea in the northeast region of Palestine, 0:58:58.640 --> 0:59:02.600 was once the world's most important olive region. The area 0:59:02.840 --> 0:59:06.400 was the site of the earliest olive cultivation dating back 0:59:06.440 --> 0:59:10.439 to five thousand BC. And this is just a fun 0:59:10.480 --> 0:59:13.400 fact that I thought was interesting, but southern Spain and 0:59:13.560 --> 0:59:18.040 southeastern Italy are now the biggest olive oil producing regions. 0:59:18.720 --> 0:59:22.600 To this day, between eighty thousand and one hundred thousand 0:59:22.600 --> 0:59:26.160 families in the Palestinian territories rely on olives and their 0:59:26.200 --> 0:59:30.480 oil as primary or secondary sources of income. The industry 0:59:30.520 --> 0:59:34.480 accounts for about seventy percent of local fruit production and 0:59:34.640 --> 0:59:39.400 contributes about fourteen percent to the local economy. The trees 0:59:39.480 --> 0:59:43.360 have been a target for violence and vandalism in Palestine 0:59:43.480 --> 0:59:47.960 for decades, which is nothing new, but this is also 0:59:48.080 --> 0:59:53.240 compounding the already damaging effects of climate change. While other 0:59:53.320 --> 0:59:57.000 farmers around the world can work to adapt their cultivation 0:59:57.160 --> 1:00:02.480 practices to a warming climate, Palestinians lack regular access to 1:00:02.480 --> 1:00:06.360 their olive groves and is coupled with increasingly violet attacks 1:00:06.400 --> 1:00:09.760 on the trees and the farmers themselves, and all of 1:00:09.800 --> 1:00:13.520 this spells out just a grim future for their historic 1:00:13.600 --> 1:00:18.960 way of life. An olive press owner in Palestine, Abuid, said, 1:00:19.480 --> 1:00:22.680 climate change and the occupation are making our job more 1:00:22.680 --> 1:00:26.680 difficult than it already is. He owns several dunams of 1:00:26.760 --> 1:00:31.920 land in the inaccessible seam zone. He said, bitter olives. 1:00:32.360 --> 1:00:36.800 That is our present, that will be our future. Palestinian 1:00:36.880 --> 1:00:40.760 farmers are also often restricted by Israeli authorities from accessing 1:00:40.760 --> 1:00:44.240 their lands that are close to settlements or the separation Wall. 1:00:45.000 --> 1:00:47.640 In twenty twenty one, the International Committee of the Red 1:00:47.680 --> 1:00:52.960 Cross said for years the ICRCA has observed a seasonal 1:00:53.000 --> 1:00:56.840 peak in violence by Israeli settlers residing in certain settlements 1:00:56.880 --> 1:01:00.880 and outposts in the West Bank toward Palestine farms and 1:01:00.920 --> 1:01:03.520 their property in the period leading up to the olive 1:01:03.560 --> 1:01:07.160 harvest season, as well as during the harvest season itself 1:01:07.200 --> 1:01:10.720 in October and November, and that quote was said by 1:01:10.720 --> 1:01:15.400 Els Debouff, the head of ICRC's mission in Jerusalem. They 1:01:15.400 --> 1:01:19.400 went on to say farmers also experience acts of harassment 1:01:19.480 --> 1:01:23.280 and violence that aim at preventing a successful harvest, not 1:01:23.400 --> 1:01:27.480 to mention the destruction of farming equipment or the uprooting 1:01:27.560 --> 1:01:32.120 and burning of olive trees. The olive harvest season, which 1:01:32.200 --> 1:01:36.720 runs between October and November, is a lifeline for again 1:01:36.880 --> 1:01:40.320 about eighty thousand to one hundred thousand Palestinian families in 1:01:40.320 --> 1:01:44.720 the occupied West Bank. Since nineteen sixty seven, more than 1:01:44.800 --> 1:01:49.160 eight hundred thousand Palestinian olive trees have been illegally uprooted 1:01:49.240 --> 1:01:54.680 by Israeli authority. In August twenty twenty one alone, more 1:01:54.720 --> 1:01:59.120 than nine thousand olive trees were removed, and on February 1:01:59.240 --> 1:02:02.600 ninth of twenty two, twenty fifty olive trees were forcibly 1:02:02.680 --> 1:02:07.000 uprooted and destroyed in the occupied West Bank region of Selfet. 1:02:08.000 --> 1:02:11.360 For the past several years, when the olive harvest begins 1:02:11.360 --> 1:02:16.360 around October, both Israeli forces and settlers regularly attack Palestinian 1:02:16.440 --> 1:02:20.160 villages and farmers and destroy their crops on almost a 1:02:20.280 --> 1:02:25.000 daily basis. They beat farmers, they spray crops with chemicals, 1:02:25.040 --> 1:02:28.920 and uproot olive trees by the hundreds. In November of 1:02:28.960 --> 1:02:34.080 twenty twenty two, Israeli forces uprooted two thousand olive trees 1:02:34.440 --> 1:02:38.640 in the West Bank. Make it make sense, you can't. 1:02:38.960 --> 1:02:43.680 It's stupid and illogical. On October twentieth, twenty twenty two, 1:02:43.800 --> 1:02:46.760 a group of men armed with metal bars and stones 1:02:47.160 --> 1:02:50.760 attacked klasm At Hajbrahammad and his olive grove in the 1:02:50.840 --> 1:02:56.080 village of El Lureyev, northeast of Vermola. This group of 1:02:56.200 --> 1:03:00.080 nearly two dozen settlers from the nearby illegal Israeli settle 1:03:00.400 --> 1:03:05.400 of Adiad attacked the olive farmer and his friend Mazda Muhammad, 1:03:05.800 --> 1:03:08.960 the owner of the grove next door, uprooting and heavily 1:03:09.040 --> 1:03:12.240 damaging a total of eighty olive trees and all men 1:03:12.320 --> 1:03:17.600 saplings between the two properties. The trespassers also set fire 1:03:17.720 --> 1:03:20.560 to a vehicle and water tank just for good measure 1:03:20.960 --> 1:03:24.200 before retreating to their homes in the legal settlement in 1:03:24.240 --> 1:03:28.080 the northern West Bank. Klose madhaj Rahammad is a forty 1:03:28.080 --> 1:03:31.040 five year old father of four, and he said, the 1:03:31.120 --> 1:03:35.240 Israeli army backed the aggressors and through tear gas canisters 1:03:35.240 --> 1:03:38.080 and rubber bullets at us so that the settlers can 1:03:38.200 --> 1:03:41.720 keep on destroying our crops. I thought the first time 1:03:41.720 --> 1:03:45.640 this has happened. This man already lost an eye in 1:03:45.680 --> 1:03:49.560 a similar settler attack a decade ago, and these are 1:03:49.680 --> 1:03:54.000 far from isolated incidents. This man lost an eye, now 1:03:54.000 --> 1:03:56.760 he was losing his entire livelihood and the thing he's 1:03:56.800 --> 1:03:59.560 built for his entire life, probably his family's life as well. 1:03:59.560 --> 1:04:04.680 For another incident came from Doha Assous, who is a 1:04:04.840 --> 1:04:07.760 sixty year old farmer. She says that she got up 1:04:07.760 --> 1:04:10.440 at five a m. To journey to her olive grove 1:04:10.480 --> 1:04:14.080 to harvest, only to find thirty five of the precious 1:04:14.120 --> 1:04:17.160 trees that were planted by her father seventy years ago. 1:04:17.640 --> 1:04:20.920 These trees were scattered in pieces after settlers took a 1:04:21.000 --> 1:04:25.280 chainsaw to them. I couldn't contain my sorrow. I hugged 1:04:25.320 --> 1:04:29.280 the broken trunks and waved goodbye to them forever. Then 1:04:29.320 --> 1:04:33.440 the Israeli army pulled me away from my field. Many 1:04:33.480 --> 1:04:36.400 of the groves of Palestinian farmers are located in the 1:04:36.480 --> 1:04:40.480 vicinity of settlements in restricted areas under Israeli administrative and 1:04:40.520 --> 1:04:44.400 military control, which means that farmers need to apply for 1:04:44.480 --> 1:04:48.320 permits specifying when and for how long they can gain 1:04:48.400 --> 1:04:52.760 access to their own property. On top of that, Israeli 1:04:52.880 --> 1:04:56.120 law allows the government to seize Palestinian fields if they 1:04:56.120 --> 1:04:59.960 are abandoned for more than three years, which is at 1:05:00.000 --> 1:05:04.720 go back to Autumn era land codes. Taken together, these 1:05:04.800 --> 1:05:08.840 rules incentivize attacks to keep the farmers from accessing their groves, 1:05:09.280 --> 1:05:13.040 thus allowing for claims of abandonment and eventual seizure of 1:05:13.080 --> 1:05:16.600 the land, and many families have given up on reaching 1:05:16.680 --> 1:05:20.280 their lands for fear of being killed, which is also 1:05:20.360 --> 1:05:25.040 I think what the settlers want. Farming activists Gasan Najad 1:05:25.240 --> 1:05:29.480 said during the harvest, settlers attack us on a daily basis. 1:05:29.840 --> 1:05:32.560 They want to take possession of our lands and build 1:05:32.720 --> 1:05:37.120 more settlements. Today, the number of Israelis living in some 1:05:37.240 --> 1:05:41.560 two hundred and fifty settlements built on Palestinian territory illegally 1:05:42.120 --> 1:05:46.200 according to international law is between six hundred thousand and 1:05:46.280 --> 1:05:51.120 seven hundred and fifty thousand people, and as settlements keep expanding, 1:05:51.280 --> 1:05:54.120 the rights of Palestinians to access their land in those 1:05:54.160 --> 1:05:59.240 areas are stifled by ever more restrictive permitting. Since two 1:05:59.240 --> 1:06:02.600 thousand and five, more than ninety two percent of investigations 1:06:02.640 --> 1:06:06.800 into complaints made by Palestinian victims were closed without filing 1:06:06.920 --> 1:06:13.560 legal charges, surprise, surprise. According to independent observers appointed by 1:06:13.600 --> 1:06:17.880 the UN, the violence attributed to Zuri settlers against Palestinians 1:06:17.920 --> 1:06:21.320 in the West Bank has worsened in recent months amid 1:06:21.400 --> 1:06:25.960 a quote atmosphere of impunity. In response to these attacks, 1:06:26.120 --> 1:06:29.760 Palestinian farmers have been forced to plant about ten thousand 1:06:29.840 --> 1:06:33.080 new olive trees in the West Bank each year to 1:06:33.160 --> 1:06:37.440 prevent the region's five thousand year old industry from dying out. 1:06:38.160 --> 1:06:41.880 Chauna Dullan, the director of international relations with the NGO 1:06:42.040 --> 1:06:47.160 yesh Din, said impunity encourages settlers to take over more land. 1:06:47.560 --> 1:06:50.840 They feel more empowered than ever to use violent means 1:06:50.880 --> 1:06:54.960 to attack Palestinians. It's hard to imagine the situation getting 1:06:55.000 --> 1:06:58.800 worse than this, but it likely will. And they also 1:06:58.920 --> 1:07:02.440 added that cooperation between settlers and the army on these 1:07:02.560 --> 1:07:07.160 organized attacks has become something of an established pattern. We've 1:07:07.160 --> 1:07:09.560 talked about this on other episodes in the past, but 1:07:09.960 --> 1:07:13.920 legislative elections in November of last year brought a sharp 1:07:14.040 --> 1:07:17.840 rise in settler violence because the far right religious Zionist 1:07:17.920 --> 1:07:21.800 Party and the Utzvah Yehudid party surged in the polls. 1:07:22.440 --> 1:07:26.480 It'samar Benavide is now Israel's National Security Minister under a 1:07:26.520 --> 1:07:30.040 new coalition deal, and this grants him control over the 1:07:30.120 --> 1:07:33.960 Israeli Border Police Division in the West Bank. He proudly 1:07:34.000 --> 1:07:40.360 advocates for expelling disloyal Arab citizens from Israel. Dior Sadat 1:07:40.520 --> 1:07:44.600 from the Jerusalem based NGO bit Selim, which documents human 1:07:44.680 --> 1:07:48.760 rights violations in the occupied territories and frames Israeli policies 1:07:48.800 --> 1:07:51.400 in the West Bank as those of an apartheid regime. 1:07:52.000 --> 1:07:55.200 They said, the State of Israel is using settlers as 1:07:55.240 --> 1:07:58.360 its unofficial armed arm in the West Bank to take 1:07:58.400 --> 1:08:01.720 over more land. Settlers are fully backed by the state. 1:08:02.240 --> 1:08:05.240 We expect to witness much more violence as far right 1:08:05.280 --> 1:08:10.040 parties gain positions of power. As the unfortunate triumph of 1:08:10.120 --> 1:08:14.160 nationalist religious ideals has made the Israeli far right integrated 1:08:14.160 --> 1:08:18.640 in mainstream politics, human rights groups are becoming increasingly concerned 1:08:18.680 --> 1:08:22.559 with the implications for Palestinians and the occupied territories, going 1:08:22.600 --> 1:08:25.719 as far as to fear a formal annexation of all 1:08:25.840 --> 1:08:29.480 or parts of the West Bank through a Kinesset vote. 1:08:29.600 --> 1:08:32.439 According to U one experts, twenty twenty two was the 1:08:32.600 --> 1:08:36.120 sixth year of consecutive annual increase in a number of 1:08:36.200 --> 1:08:39.840 Israeli attacks in the occupied territories, and the deadliest in 1:08:39.880 --> 1:08:43.880 the West Bank since two thousand and five. Let's take 1:08:43.920 --> 1:08:47.280 our first break right here. We'll be right back because 1:08:47.280 --> 1:08:51.640 we always are. Okay, Okay, we are back. Let's just 1:08:51.800 --> 1:08:56.040 jump right back in. In twenty twenty Harts magazine publish 1:08:56.120 --> 1:08:59.640 an article about Israeli's growing ancient olive trees in the 1:08:59.640 --> 1:09:03.760 Galley region in northern Israel. The article focuses on the 1:09:03.840 --> 1:09:07.439 Neu Maher family, who have been growing quote hundreds of 1:09:07.439 --> 1:09:10.799 these ancient trees, many of which are between two hundred 1:09:10.840 --> 1:09:14.639 and eight hundred years old, on land adjacent to Mojave 1:09:14.720 --> 1:09:18.280 Da Zapori in the Lower Galilee region. The olive oil 1:09:18.360 --> 1:09:23.120 produced by Neu Mayor's company rish Makish or lakish. Sorry 1:09:23.160 --> 1:09:25.920 he was pronouncing that, probably, but this olive oil received 1:09:26.000 --> 1:09:29.600 high praise from Ronetz Vered, the article's author, and the 1:09:29.720 --> 1:09:33.639 Harrit's food critic. But my question is how did such 1:09:33.720 --> 1:09:37.080 ancient trees fall into the hands of the Neu Mayer family, 1:09:37.479 --> 1:09:41.880 who settled into Zapori only twenty years ago. No historical 1:09:41.960 --> 1:09:44.920 context is given in the article to explain the existence 1:09:44.960 --> 1:09:48.679 of these trees, which the author rights are quote spread 1:09:48.720 --> 1:09:51.800 out over a large area and found in pasture is 1:09:51.840 --> 1:09:55.839 difficult for cultivation and harvesting. The answer to this question 1:09:56.080 --> 1:09:59.599 is that mojav Da Zapori this region sits on land 1:10:00.360 --> 1:10:05.759 to the destroyed and depopulated Palestinian village of Safuria. According 1:10:05.800 --> 1:10:09.479 to Palestine remembered a website dedicated to preserving the memory 1:10:09.560 --> 1:10:13.160 of more than four hundred Palestinian villages which were destroyed 1:10:13.240 --> 1:10:17.200 during the Nekba. Safuria was a relatively large community, with 1:10:17.280 --> 1:10:21.400 over five thousand residents in nineteen forty eight. The area 1:10:21.479 --> 1:10:25.320 around the village, according to Wild Khalidi's book All That Remains, 1:10:25.920 --> 1:10:30.200 was well endowed with fertile soil and surface and underground 1:10:30.200 --> 1:10:35.600 water resources, with olives being the village's chief crop. Safuria 1:10:35.920 --> 1:10:40.000 was conquered by Israeli forces on July fifteenth, nineteen forty eight. 1:10:40.800 --> 1:10:43.920 According to village residents, only a small number of people 1:10:43.960 --> 1:10:46.240 remained in the village after it was bombed from the 1:10:46.320 --> 1:10:49.800 air by Israeli forces, and very few people were able 1:10:49.840 --> 1:10:53.720 to return and retrieve their property. We talked about the 1:10:53.760 --> 1:10:55.720 Nipka in the previous episode. If you guys want to 1:10:55.760 --> 1:10:58.160 revisit that, I won't get into it too much in 1:10:58.200 --> 1:11:00.400 this episode because I already have one all of it. 1:11:00.920 --> 1:11:03.360 But I'm just going to continue talking about this author, 1:11:03.479 --> 1:11:07.880 while Khalidi and his books. While Khalidi has another book 1:11:08.040 --> 1:11:12.320 titled The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem, which unveiled 1:11:12.439 --> 1:11:17.240 previously concealed Israeli state archives, which Khalidi references in his book. 1:11:18.520 --> 1:11:22.000 Israeli historian Benny Morris writes that those who remained in 1:11:22.040 --> 1:11:25.679 Sefudia were expelled in nineteen forty eight, but that quote 1:11:25.760 --> 1:11:30.360 hundreds infiltrated back in the months that followed. Israeli authorities, 1:11:30.439 --> 1:11:34.200 Morris wrote, feared that if they returning Palestinians were allowed 1:11:34.240 --> 1:11:37.439 to stay, the village would quote soon return to its 1:11:37.479 --> 1:11:42.320 pre war population. By then, neighboring Jewish settlements had already 1:11:42.400 --> 1:11:47.960 coveted Sefuia's lands. According to Morris, one senior Israeli official 1:11:48.120 --> 1:11:51.920 stated in November of nineteen forty eight, next to Nazareth 1:11:52.040 --> 1:11:55.680 is a village whose distant lands are needed for our settlements. 1:11:56.120 --> 1:12:00.680 Perhaps they can be given to another place. After the 1:12:00.760 --> 1:12:04.400 inhabitants were loaded on trucks in January of nineteen forty 1:12:04.479 --> 1:12:09.439 nine and expelled again to neighboring Arab communities. In short, 1:12:09.600 --> 1:12:12.639 going back to that Heart's article, the hundreds of ancient 1:12:12.680 --> 1:12:15.320 olive trees that our reference did not just grow out 1:12:15.360 --> 1:12:19.439 of thin air. The Palestinian residents of Safuria planted and 1:12:19.560 --> 1:12:23.800 cultivated them for centuries. The trees were stolen from them 1:12:23.920 --> 1:12:27.920 by force the state leases those trees after claiming the 1:12:28.000 --> 1:12:31.720 village's land as its own. Some of that land is 1:12:31.800 --> 1:12:34.760 now part of a man made forest planted by the 1:12:34.800 --> 1:12:39.040 Jewish National Fund. But to ignore the village's history, as 1:12:39.080 --> 1:12:42.760 the Heart's article did, is no worse than ignoring the 1:12:42.800 --> 1:12:47.200 stolen land on which Israeli companies like the one mentioned 1:12:47.400 --> 1:12:50.360 and many others produced its olive oil in the West Bank. 1:12:51.120 --> 1:12:55.479 Taha Muhammadadi, the famed Palestinian poet, was born in and 1:12:55.560 --> 1:12:59.920 expelled from Safuria. The family of Muhammad Bedeck, the politician 1:13:00.000 --> 1:13:02.759 who heads the High follow Up Committee for Arab citizens 1:13:02.760 --> 1:13:07.080 of Israel, was uprooted from the village. Safuriya may be gone, 1:13:07.520 --> 1:13:10.519 but its memory lives. I want to talk about how 1:13:10.520 --> 1:13:14.320 olive trees became a symbol in Palestinian art in literature. 1:13:15.000 --> 1:13:18.600 Olive trees are featured so prominently in Palestine art in 1:13:18.680 --> 1:13:23.320 literature even the far flung diaspora, as symbols of rootedness 1:13:23.320 --> 1:13:27.520 in an age of displacement, self sufficiency in times of hardship, 1:13:27.800 --> 1:13:32.600 and peace in periods of war. Sliemad Mansour, a Palestinian 1:13:32.640 --> 1:13:35.680 painter in Jerusalem whose art has been long focused on 1:13:35.720 --> 1:13:39.400 the theme of Land said, the olive tree represents the 1:13:39.439 --> 1:13:43.240 steadfastness of the Palestinian people, who are able to live 1:13:43.320 --> 1:13:47.519 under difficult circumstances. In the same way that the trees 1:13:47.560 --> 1:13:50.680 can survive and have deep roots in their land, so 1:13:50.880 --> 1:13:55.520 too do the Palestinian people. Mahmoud d Ruish, the celebrated 1:13:55.560 --> 1:13:58.640 Palestinian poet who died in two thousand and eight, his 1:13:58.800 --> 1:14:02.599 works have many reference to olives. In his nineteen sixty 1:14:02.640 --> 1:14:06.400 four poetry collection Leaves of the Olive Tree, he wrote, 1:14:06.800 --> 1:14:11.320 olive is an evergreen tree. Olive will stay evergreen like 1:14:11.360 --> 1:14:17.400 a shield for the universe. Nabil Anani, the celebrated Palestinian painter, 1:14:17.680 --> 1:14:21.160 Saramesis and sculptor, believes that the olive tree is a 1:14:21.200 --> 1:14:26.520 powerful national symbol that must be protected at all costs. Anani, 1:14:26.560 --> 1:14:30.360 who was considered one of the founders of contemporary Palestinian art, 1:14:30.720 --> 1:14:34.360 told Arab News. For me, it is both a national 1:14:34.400 --> 1:14:38.640 and artistic symbol. It reflects the nature and beauty of Palestine. 1:14:39.240 --> 1:14:43.719 Our traditions, culture, poems and songs are often centered around 1:14:43.760 --> 1:14:47.160 the tree to the west of Ramolah, the administrative heart 1:14:47.200 --> 1:14:51.559 of the Palestine government. Annani said that the hillsides are 1:14:51.760 --> 1:14:55.479 full of olive trees as far as the eye can see. 1:14:55.640 --> 1:14:58.479 They cover entire mountains, and it is one of the 1:14:58.479 --> 1:15:01.360 most pleasant views that anyone can observe. 1:15:01.560 --> 1:15:02.040 He said. 1:15:02.920 --> 1:15:06.040 That is the economic and symbolic power of the olive 1:15:06.080 --> 1:15:11.160 tree and Palestinian national life. The rural communities that have 1:15:11.280 --> 1:15:14.800 tended to these crofts for generations are routinely targeted by 1:15:14.840 --> 1:15:19.280 illegal settlers, attempting to strip families of their land and living. 1:15:20.520 --> 1:15:24.439 The late Fudadalchran, one of the most respected female poets 1:15:24.479 --> 1:15:28.719 in Palestinian literature, saw olive trees as symbols of unity 1:15:28.760 --> 1:15:32.280 with nature and of hope for the renewal and rebirth 1:15:32.320 --> 1:15:36.439 of Palestine. In a nineteen ninety three poems, she wrote, 1:15:36.840 --> 1:15:39.719 the roots of the olive tree are from my soil, 1:15:40.080 --> 1:15:43.639 and they are always fresh. Its lights are emitted from 1:15:43.640 --> 1:15:47.920 my heart, and it is inspired until my creator filled 1:15:47.960 --> 1:15:51.599 my nerve, root and body, so he got up while 1:15:51.640 --> 1:15:56.280 shaking its leaves due to maturity created within him. More 1:15:56.320 --> 1:15:59.759 than just a source of income and artistic inspiration, however, 1:16:00.240 --> 1:16:03.880 olives also form a vital part of Palestinian diet and 1:16:03.960 --> 1:16:09.240 culinary culture. Pickled olives feature and breakfasts, lunches, and dinners, 1:16:09.640 --> 1:16:14.960 and also provides significant nutritional health benefits. Olive oil, meanwhile, 1:16:15.120 --> 1:16:18.640 is used in scores of recipes, the most popular of 1:16:18.680 --> 1:16:23.160 which is zata rousset, which is basically fluffy peta bread 1:16:23.320 --> 1:16:27.000 dipped in oil then dabbed liberally in a time based 1:16:27.000 --> 1:16:31.719 powder that includes sesame seeds and spices. My mom actually 1:16:31.760 --> 1:16:33.639 talks about this all the time. It was what our 1:16:33.640 --> 1:16:37.040 hers staples growing up in childhood. Were obsessed with it. 1:16:37.720 --> 1:16:43.160 Palestinian zata is delicious in particular, but olive oil is 1:16:43.200 --> 1:16:48.080 a huge part of this cultural Arab staple. Beyond the 1:16:48.080 --> 1:16:52.320 dinner table, Olive oil historically has had many other uses. 1:16:52.840 --> 1:16:55.760 It's been a source of fuel and oil lamps, a 1:16:55.880 --> 1:16:59.479 natural treatment for dry hair, skin and nails, and even 1:16:59.520 --> 1:17:03.360 as an insecticide. It is not only the fruit in 1:17:03.439 --> 1:17:06.440 its oil, but the olive tree contributes to the cultural 1:17:06.479 --> 1:17:10.919 and economic life of Palestine. Olive pits, the hard stones 1:17:10.960 --> 1:17:14.280 in the center of the fruit have long been repurposed 1:17:14.320 --> 1:17:17.479 to make strings of prayer beads used by Muslims and 1:17:17.560 --> 1:17:22.160 Christians alike. As for the leaves and branches of the trees, 1:17:22.520 --> 1:17:25.360 they are trimmed during the harvest season to be used 1:17:25.400 --> 1:17:28.919 as feed for sheep and goats, while the broad canopy 1:17:28.960 --> 1:17:31.840 of the olive grove provides animals and their shepherds with 1:17:32.080 --> 1:17:36.519 welcome shade from the relentless afternoon sun. The wood of 1:17:36.640 --> 1:17:39.879 felled trees has also been widely used in the carving 1:17:39.960 --> 1:17:43.519 of religious icons as far back as the sixteenth century, 1:17:44.040 --> 1:17:47.400 and as a source of firewood before the modern use 1:17:47.479 --> 1:17:52.320 of gas. In fact, the glassmakers of Hebron, who are 1:17:52.360 --> 1:17:56.479 famed for their stained glass, continue to use charcoal derived 1:17:56.479 --> 1:18:00.160 from olive trees to fire their kilns. And while the 1:18:00.240 --> 1:18:05.400 quantifiably beneficial uses of the olive tree are many, perhaps 1:18:05.400 --> 1:18:08.960 what is even more valuable to Palestinians is the inspiration 1:18:09.080 --> 1:18:13.360 it has provided for poets, painters, and prophets down the ages. 1:18:14.000 --> 1:18:17.360 Not to mention this special place it continues to occupy 1:18:17.479 --> 1:18:21.720 in their culture and quests for statehood. This is all 1:18:21.840 --> 1:18:25.400 why I wanted to mention the olive tree and really 1:18:25.439 --> 1:18:30.280 illustrate its significance to Palestinians and also just point out 1:18:30.760 --> 1:18:35.639 that destroying these crops and these trees, or claiming them 1:18:35.680 --> 1:18:39.160 for your own it actually is an insult to the 1:18:39.240 --> 1:18:43.400 land itself, and that is a Zionist action that I 1:18:43.479 --> 1:18:49.879 just think has no actual excuse or defense. Why destroy 1:18:49.920 --> 1:18:53.040 the land that you want so badly if not for 1:18:53.280 --> 1:18:57.320 spite and hate. So that's what I want to talk 1:18:57.360 --> 1:19:01.280 about today. I hope it was interesting, educational or whatever. 1:19:01.760 --> 1:19:04.920 How we encourage you to try Zeta Zata one day 1:19:04.920 --> 1:19:07.479 in your life from an actual air person so you 1:19:07.479 --> 1:19:10.120 can make sure it's good. But yeah, that's all I got, 1:19:10.520 --> 1:19:14.639 So thank you for listening and until next time. Fuck 1:19:14.680 --> 1:19:15.800 the idea. The tug is real. 1:19:16.000 --> 1:19:29.360 Bye. 1:19:32.200 --> 1:19:33.639 Hello, it's just me again. 1:19:33.680 --> 1:19:35.040 Today it's James. 1:19:35.120 --> 1:19:38.640 I'm joined by Eric Mesa, who will introduce himself in 1:19:38.680 --> 1:19:42.440 a second, and we're going to be discussing the environmental 1:19:42.720 --> 1:19:46.759 and human impact of the border policies in the last 1:19:47.320 --> 1:19:50.479 decade or thereabouts and to include the border wall. So Eric, 1:19:50.479 --> 1:19:51.799 would you like to introduce yourself. 1:19:52.479 --> 1:19:53.200 Thank you James. 1:19:53.240 --> 1:19:55.680 Of course my name is Eric Mesa, I just hear 1:19:55.800 --> 1:19:59.600 him pronounced, and I am the Border the Lands coordinator 1:19:59.640 --> 1:20:03.400 for a club part of the Grand Canyon Chapter based 1:20:03.400 --> 1:20:06.240 out of Tuson, Arizona, which is the on city land 1:20:06.280 --> 1:20:09.800 of the Tona Autumn and Pasco Yaki people many other 1:20:09.840 --> 1:20:11.120 tribes that might call home. 1:20:11.160 --> 1:20:12.120 Thank you for having me. 1:20:12.680 --> 1:20:14.880 Yeah, thank you very much for joining us, And it's 1:20:14.920 --> 1:20:19.120 a fantastic introduction. So, Eric, I think if we start 1:20:19.120 --> 1:20:24.640 out by just explaining what the border wall kind of 1:20:25.200 --> 1:20:27.439 looks like in the landscape and how it operates in 1:20:27.479 --> 1:20:30.439 the landscape, because although it's something that you and I 1:20:30.520 --> 1:20:32.880 might see almost every day, for a lot of people 1:20:32.920 --> 1:20:34.759 it's something that they kind of saw on the news 1:20:34.880 --> 1:20:36.479 three or four years ago and then the new start 1:20:36.560 --> 1:20:39.720 reporting on it. So can you explain like the physical 1:20:39.840 --> 1:20:41.880 kind of stature and impact of the wall. 1:20:43.920 --> 1:20:48.559 Yes, well, I think for each person it definitely takes 1:20:48.600 --> 1:20:52.120 into a with the perspective that they might have. You know, 1:20:52.200 --> 1:20:55.960 it definitely impacts people in a different way. But one 1:20:56.000 --> 1:20:58.800 thing that you can like notice as soon as you 1:20:58.840 --> 1:21:02.080 see it is how massive it is. How it just 1:21:02.200 --> 1:21:08.040 divides these pristine, beautiful Sonoran desert lands and divides them 1:21:08.080 --> 1:21:13.760 on half. So that already for us as an organization, 1:21:13.920 --> 1:21:16.320 since the beginning and the conception of the idea of 1:21:16.479 --> 1:21:21.160 start rolling all of these remote areas, start looking at 1:21:21.200 --> 1:21:23.760 the environmental impact that social action can have. 1:21:24.040 --> 1:21:28.080 So it's always really hard to see and just to 1:21:28.240 --> 1:21:28.800 imagine and. 1:21:28.880 --> 1:21:31.719 To think about all of the different things, not only people, 1:21:31.840 --> 1:21:34.040 but all the different movements that used. 1:21:33.880 --> 1:21:37.120 To happen in these areas. Now it is being completely interrupted. 1:21:37.840 --> 1:21:41.880 Yeah, yeah, definitely. I remember in twenty twenty I was 1:21:41.960 --> 1:21:46.799 out in on cum Island in place called Kampa filming 1:21:47.280 --> 1:21:50.679 a Kumi I protest against the desecration of the sacred sites. 1:21:50.720 --> 1:21:53.320 But actually I was writing for this er club and 1:21:53.880 --> 1:21:57.360 I saw Ada that day, like and it just came 1:21:57.439 --> 1:21:59.200 up to the world, and it was like, what the. 1:21:59.200 --> 1:22:01.240 Fuck do I do? This wasn't here last time I 1:22:01.360 --> 1:22:01.720 came here. 1:22:02.000 --> 1:22:04.120 It was just just really I don't know why. Obviously, 1:22:04.760 --> 1:22:06.920 well those horrible cruel things to people every day, but 1:22:07.200 --> 1:22:09.080 I don't know why it struck me at how unnatural 1:22:09.200 --> 1:22:12.320 and unwelcome it was in that place, but it did. 1:22:13.360 --> 1:22:15.800 So I think maybe if we could look at these 1:22:15.840 --> 1:22:20.799 different The wall spans a huge area and it stops 1:22:20.880 --> 1:22:24.680 randomly throughout that area, so preps you could explain some 1:22:24.920 --> 1:22:27.720 of the ecological impacts. Maybe if we start where you 1:22:27.800 --> 1:22:30.760 are in Tucson, and then we move gradually west to 1:22:31.160 --> 1:22:32.840 where I am and at the western end of it, 1:22:33.000 --> 1:22:35.160 And would that be a good sort of way to 1:22:35.240 --> 1:22:35.400 do that? 1:22:36.720 --> 1:22:39.519 Yeah, of course, Well here in Tucson. 1:22:39.600 --> 1:22:44.080 Our closest border is Nogalles, and once we started moving 1:22:44.920 --> 1:22:49.240 east or I'm sorry west from there, the closest one 1:22:49.640 --> 1:22:53.960 very next to it's called Sassabi, and as you mentioned Nogles, 1:22:54.200 --> 1:22:56.719 there is big walls and then soon it stops because 1:22:56.760 --> 1:23:00.439 then the terrain gets very uneven. There is a range 1:23:00.520 --> 1:23:03.240 of mountains called the Pahari Too Mountains, which is one 1:23:03.280 --> 1:23:06.800 of the most biodiverse areas here in the Southwest, with 1:23:07.000 --> 1:23:11.800 some endemic species of plants and animals. Actually, thankfully the 1:23:11.880 --> 1:23:17.280 wall stops there. And then there is certain areas that 1:23:17.960 --> 1:23:20.880 there is a lot of unfinished projects, or we also 1:23:21.000 --> 1:23:24.760 call them orphan walls, like sections of the wall that 1:23:24.960 --> 1:23:29.439 never were completed and they just stand there. Unfortunately, to 1:23:29.560 --> 1:23:33.479 get them up there, there was a lot of impact. 1:23:36.400 --> 1:23:40.080 For example, they use dynamite to blow up entire mountain 1:23:40.200 --> 1:23:43.840 tops to get equipment up there, and some of the 1:23:43.920 --> 1:23:46.760 cases without even constructing any wall at the end. 1:23:47.160 --> 1:23:48.880 So it's really unfortunate. 1:23:49.479 --> 1:23:52.120 Because a lot of the debris that came out of 1:23:52.160 --> 1:23:55.320 these explosions right now it's causing a lot of erosion 1:23:55.400 --> 1:23:59.400 issues and it's like moving into those canyons and covering 1:23:59.479 --> 1:24:03.280 a lot of the vegitation that was there before. Then 1:24:03.360 --> 1:24:06.680 as you keep coming, passing through the Phariitu Mountains, then 1:24:06.760 --> 1:24:10.080 you get to the area called the Buenos Aires National 1:24:10.200 --> 1:24:14.000 Refuge near the town of Sassab, and there is a 1:24:14.360 --> 1:24:18.120 large segment of a wall there with twenty six gaps, 1:24:18.640 --> 1:24:22.840 small gaps, big gaps, and all of these gaps have 1:24:23.000 --> 1:24:25.680 been there since the beginning of the construction. 1:24:26.320 --> 1:24:29.560 CBP recently announced that they're going to be closing some 1:24:29.760 --> 1:24:30.479 of these gaps. 1:24:31.560 --> 1:24:36.960 They have been used by migrants a lot recently, but 1:24:37.479 --> 1:24:42.080 in recent days actually the influx of migrants have definitely 1:24:42.160 --> 1:24:46.040 declined a lot, different to what other people seence in 1:24:46.160 --> 1:24:50.000 other parts of the country, but especially in this area 1:24:50.040 --> 1:24:53.280 in Arizona, we didn't see the huge amounts of migrants 1:24:53.320 --> 1:24:57.000 coming after Title forty two. So once you pass that section, 1:24:57.200 --> 1:25:01.280 then you get to what's the Once you pass the 1:25:01.760 --> 1:25:05.560 Sasaba Port of entry, then you enter the Tona Autumn Reservation. 1:25:06.760 --> 1:25:09.639 Tona Autumn decided that they didn't want a wall there, 1:25:09.840 --> 1:25:12.360 and they fought for it, and they didn't build a wall, 1:25:12.600 --> 1:25:14.440 and there is about. 1:25:15.880 --> 1:25:18.160 I'm not really sure about the number of miles. 1:25:18.200 --> 1:25:21.240 I think there is about sixteen to twenty two miles 1:25:21.560 --> 1:25:25.680 of just the land that only contains what's known as 1:25:25.800 --> 1:25:30.599 a vehicle barrier or normandy barriers. These are made out 1:25:30.640 --> 1:25:36.560 of like all train tracks, which we really like environmentally 1:25:36.640 --> 1:25:41.880 speaking because it allows the movement of the animals and 1:25:42.120 --> 1:25:46.800 the flow of the water as well. And then once 1:25:46.880 --> 1:25:49.719 you pass the reservation, then you go into Organ Pipe 1:25:49.840 --> 1:25:54.280 National Park, and then you start seeing more wall sections 1:25:54.520 --> 1:25:58.040 on areas like Kito w Akito Springs like a very 1:25:58.120 --> 1:26:01.479 important ceremonial site for he has shed. 1:26:01.280 --> 1:26:05.719 Automn people and a lot of destruction on those areas. 1:26:05.840 --> 1:26:09.799 Sacred sites as well, there are very cultural and important 1:26:09.880 --> 1:26:13.599 for the ton autem people, like Monument Hill, a burial 1:26:13.720 --> 1:26:14.240 site that. 1:26:16.479 --> 1:26:18.080 Wall was built right on top of it. 1:26:19.280 --> 1:26:22.960 And just keep moving and then you get to areas 1:26:23.040 --> 1:26:28.120 that are more remote until you get to Yuma, and then. 1:26:28.560 --> 1:26:33.200 We have also Coco pat Reservation there that there is 1:26:33.320 --> 1:26:33.800 no wall. 1:26:35.160 --> 1:26:40.640 The wall exists just after the the reservation and there 1:26:40.680 --> 1:26:43.360 are some segments I believe that still have no wall 1:26:43.400 --> 1:26:46.800 in there. Recently, there was the action by the state 1:26:46.880 --> 1:26:49.599 governor to put shipping containers there. 1:26:50.880 --> 1:26:52.120 They were removed. 1:26:51.800 --> 1:26:56.040 Recently to be replaced with the regular baller type of 1:26:56.080 --> 1:27:00.240 ball the wall that you see in other places. And yes, 1:27:00.640 --> 1:27:03.800 you keep coming pastcal Lexico and all those areas until 1:27:03.880 --> 1:27:10.920 you get to Kumie Land and the yume Atai Mountains 1:27:11.800 --> 1:27:15.679 and all the way to what's known as Friendship Park, 1:27:16.439 --> 1:27:19.599 which is a BI national park located in the border 1:27:20.040 --> 1:27:25.400 between San Diego and Tijuana, which is the last BI 1:27:25.520 --> 1:27:27.880 national parker the only one that we have in the 1:27:28.120 --> 1:27:32.200 southern border. And now as we speak, new terry full 1:27:32.280 --> 1:27:36.360 walls are being built in that area as well. So 1:27:37.040 --> 1:27:39.559 even so President Biden said that he was not going 1:27:39.600 --> 1:27:43.200 to build more walls, we still see a new construction 1:27:43.400 --> 1:27:44.960 happening as we speak right now. 1:27:45.439 --> 1:27:48.800 Yeah, we've had friends of Friendship Park on our share 1:27:48.880 --> 1:27:50.600 before and I'm sure we will again because they do 1:27:50.800 --> 1:27:52.920 very important work and it's a very important space for 1:27:53.720 --> 1:27:56.559 so many families who are divided by the border. Yeah, 1:27:57.360 --> 1:28:00.400 So I think people, I guess when we talk about 1:28:00.400 --> 1:28:04.640 ecological impact, people always like people like big animals, right, 1:28:05.120 --> 1:28:10.439 it's the charismatic megapahuna, I guess that are impacted by this. 1:28:10.680 --> 1:28:13.320 So maybe that's a good way to look at this. 1:28:13.600 --> 1:28:19.479 I know that there are some jaguars. Jaguars, however, you 1:28:19.560 --> 1:28:22.720 want to say that that are impacted in it's my 1:28:22.840 --> 1:28:27.160 very British pronunciation. In Arizona, there is the bighorn sheep, 1:28:27.840 --> 1:28:30.439 of course, who are closer to me, right near to 1:28:30.760 --> 1:28:33.559 Cumba where people will have heard the scripted series by 1:28:33.560 --> 1:28:35.120 the time this comes out, so they'll be familiar with 1:28:35.200 --> 1:28:37.720 the Cumba And can you talk about the impact of 1:28:37.800 --> 1:28:40.680 the wall on those sort of bigger animals. 1:28:41.800 --> 1:28:42.400 Absolutely. 1:28:42.640 --> 1:28:42.840 Yeah. 1:28:42.960 --> 1:28:47.560 That has been our main focus as an environmental organization 1:28:48.200 --> 1:28:51.920 since two thousand and five when the Real id Waiver 1:28:52.160 --> 1:28:56.200 came up, signed by George W. Bush as a response 1:28:56.360 --> 1:29:01.240 to nine to eleven and the intention secure the borders. 1:29:01.840 --> 1:29:04.639 The Real Idea Act waved every. 1:29:04.560 --> 1:29:09.839 Single environmental loaw that we know, like, including the Endangered 1:29:09.880 --> 1:29:15.840 Species Act, Clean Water Act, the low that you can 1:29:15.920 --> 1:29:19.800 imagine it's included. It's about forty or more of these laws. 1:29:20.760 --> 1:29:24.439 We're completely waved in order to start building walls. We 1:29:24.640 --> 1:29:26.960 noticed right away that the first walls that are started 1:29:27.040 --> 1:29:30.880 coming up, it was really easy for people to go over, 1:29:31.160 --> 1:29:32.240 under cut. 1:29:32.080 --> 1:29:33.599 Through them, or go around them. 1:29:33.720 --> 1:29:36.320 But then we start noticing that animals were not able 1:29:36.400 --> 1:29:39.800 to do that anymore. We're start seeing the impacts on 1:29:39.920 --> 1:29:43.439 some of the species that are super important. You remember 1:29:43.520 --> 1:29:47.840 the species of the desert. They need to cover large 1:29:47.840 --> 1:29:51.839 amounts of territories to find the resources they need to survive. 1:29:52.760 --> 1:29:56.879 We're talking about large migration routes that go from Mexico 1:29:56.960 --> 1:29:59.840 into the United States back and forth. And just to 1:30:00.000 --> 1:30:02.559 mentioned some of the species that are considered in danger 1:30:03.040 --> 1:30:04.200 in the area of California. 1:30:04.280 --> 1:30:05.439 We got the big corn chip. 1:30:06.000 --> 1:30:08.200 Then you start coming and there's the Sonora and Dere'sert 1:30:08.320 --> 1:30:12.800 pro corn into the Sero, the altar. Then we got jaguars. 1:30:12.920 --> 1:30:17.560 In Arizona, we have also black bears. The thing that 1:30:17.680 --> 1:30:20.320 makes this area so special here in Arizona is what 1:30:20.479 --> 1:30:24.800 we have known as the Sky Islands, which is really 1:30:24.920 --> 1:30:28.040 high altitude mountains that you can find some of the 1:30:28.160 --> 1:30:32.320 species that come from the north this is the southest 1:30:32.360 --> 1:30:34.920 more territory, and some of the species from the south 1:30:35.000 --> 1:30:39.840 this is the northest most territory. So species like jaguars 1:30:40.040 --> 1:30:42.280 can all of a sudden be drinking water out of 1:30:42.360 --> 1:30:45.439 the same pond with a black bear, and that is 1:30:45.560 --> 1:30:50.240 very unusual and very rare and very amazing, you know. 1:30:50.439 --> 1:30:53.400 So we also have ocelots, which is another type of 1:30:53.680 --> 1:30:58.519 cat that lives here in Arizona. We also have the 1:30:58.880 --> 1:31:02.240 Mexican gray walls species there is in danger that use 1:31:02.320 --> 1:31:08.400 these corridors back and forth, and unfortunately we haven't had 1:31:09.560 --> 1:31:13.679 the opportunity to track properly a lot of these animals 1:31:13.800 --> 1:31:18.000 to recognize their migration patterns, because a lot of these 1:31:18.080 --> 1:31:22.360 animals cannot be put on a GPS color for example. 1:31:22.960 --> 1:31:26.320 But what we have done is put a lot of 1:31:26.479 --> 1:31:30.040 cameras on the wilderness and we're able to photograph jawars 1:31:30.120 --> 1:31:32.400 on this side of the border and photograph the same 1:31:32.520 --> 1:31:35.639 jahwa a few years later in Mexico or vice versa. 1:31:36.160 --> 1:31:38.400 So there is a lot of proof that all these 1:31:38.520 --> 1:31:42.080 animals have been using these corridors for thousands of years. 1:31:42.720 --> 1:31:45.880 There is plenty of evidence that the importance of these 1:31:46.400 --> 1:31:51.280 wildlife corridors in the Sonoran Desert. And also we see, 1:31:51.600 --> 1:31:55.439 you know, like that with the construction of the border wall, 1:31:55.600 --> 1:31:57.639 a lot of the species that we used to see 1:31:57.920 --> 1:32:01.120 more often in the United States don't see as much anymore. 1:32:02.080 --> 1:32:04.920 Animals have a memory, so when they come and all 1:32:04.960 --> 1:32:07.639 of a sudden, city is really large obstacle, they're less 1:32:07.760 --> 1:32:10.760 likely to come back and try it again, and that 1:32:10.880 --> 1:32:13.479 can be an a racial thing that they came past 1:32:13.520 --> 1:32:15.600 it two fture generations. 1:32:17.120 --> 1:32:18.640 One thing that you mentioned that which I think is 1:32:18.680 --> 1:32:20.599 something else which it stress is like you spoke about 1:32:20.760 --> 1:32:23.960 how the jaguars and the past can share the same pond. 1:32:24.160 --> 1:32:28.240 But the wall and the roads, which we should mention 1:32:28.360 --> 1:32:30.680 that too, right, Like people didn't just get helicoptered in 1:32:30.760 --> 1:32:32.719 to build the wall. They had to first build roads 1:32:32.760 --> 1:32:34.320 to get to the place where the border is to 1:32:34.360 --> 1:32:37.120 build the wall. And can we talk about how those 1:32:37.200 --> 1:32:40.280 have affected drainage and water sources along the border. 1:32:41.320 --> 1:32:43.479 Absolutely? Yeah. Water is life. 1:32:43.560 --> 1:32:47.320 So here in Arizona, for example, we have two rivers 1:32:47.400 --> 1:32:50.680 that are actually flow on north the San Pedro River 1:32:50.840 --> 1:32:54.599 and the Santa Cruz River. These are rivers for example, 1:32:54.720 --> 1:32:58.839 San Pedro is born in Mexico and the Santa Cruz 1:32:59.160 --> 1:33:00.000 comes in the United. 1:32:59.800 --> 1:33:02.360 States, then goes down to Mexico and then goes up again. 1:33:03.040 --> 1:33:07.720 And a lot of the drainage that has been one 1:33:07.760 --> 1:33:10.880 of the biggest issues that we have encounter because the 1:33:11.040 --> 1:33:13.840 wall acts like a dam almost and in a lot 1:33:13.880 --> 1:33:17.280 of places doesn't allow the water to flow as it 1:33:17.439 --> 1:33:20.400 used to, and that is going to bring an impact 1:33:20.479 --> 1:33:23.439 to all of the different species of animals, but also 1:33:23.560 --> 1:33:27.240 the plants that depend on this water to survive. So 1:33:29.760 --> 1:33:33.400 when the construction of the border wall came, you mentioned roads, 1:33:33.600 --> 1:33:37.040 and the road right next or adjacent to the wall. 1:33:37.560 --> 1:33:42.160 Now it's like a four or five line road in 1:33:42.280 --> 1:33:47.120 some places, and it's been also increased the elevation. So 1:33:48.120 --> 1:33:51.800 when you increase the elevation on these roads and do 1:33:52.000 --> 1:33:54.519 not have the proper drainage on the areas that need 1:33:54.640 --> 1:33:57.280 to be and then you're going to have water being 1:33:57.439 --> 1:33:59.599 stuck on one side or the oider of the border, 1:34:00.040 --> 1:34:01.880 not able to make it to the areas where it 1:34:02.040 --> 1:34:05.120 used to flow normally. So we might not see the 1:34:05.200 --> 1:34:08.600 consequences and the first year or the second year, but 1:34:08.720 --> 1:34:11.479 we can start seeing consequences in a few years from now. 1:34:11.760 --> 1:34:14.880 Several plants all of a sudden starting to die because 1:34:14.960 --> 1:34:18.519 they didn't have the water that their habita used to 1:34:18.600 --> 1:34:20.720 provide for them. So that's why they grew there on 1:34:20.800 --> 1:34:23.320 the first place. So we might see a lot of 1:34:23.520 --> 1:34:27.479 changes on the landscape in regards of the way that 1:34:27.600 --> 1:34:29.599 the water moved on those places. 1:34:30.240 --> 1:34:32.880 Yeah, So another thing I want to address is like 1:34:33.400 --> 1:34:35.920 the we talked about plants, right, and a number of 1:34:36.040 --> 1:34:40.519 cacti specifically, like cacti that is sacred to to Hona 1:34:40.520 --> 1:34:44.240 Autumn people have been either moved or destroyed in the 1:34:45.000 --> 1:34:48.519 construction of the wall around organ pipe and like just 1:34:48.800 --> 1:34:52.479 not on their reservation, but very much on their unseated homelands. 1:34:52.560 --> 1:34:56.879 Right, Yeah, Yeah, there's a water cactus. It is considered 1:34:56.880 --> 1:34:59.080 as a relative autumn. 1:34:59.240 --> 1:35:05.479 So just imagine the sentiment of the Tona autem people 1:35:05.600 --> 1:35:10.240 by looking at the sawados being shopped or bulldoze on 1:35:10.400 --> 1:35:14.479 these areas considered sacred for them. So there was definitely 1:35:14.560 --> 1:35:18.680 a lot of that happening. There is an airport, but 1:35:18.920 --> 1:35:23.160 we haven't seen it yet. It's just on written right 1:35:23.240 --> 1:35:25.759 now that they're going to revegitate some of these areas 1:35:25.800 --> 1:35:26.680 that got impacted. 1:35:27.160 --> 1:35:28.880 We're still waiting for that. 1:35:29.800 --> 1:35:32.639 Yeah, and that stuff always comes like last and slowest 1:35:33.160 --> 1:35:35.400 if it happens at all. And I know, like both 1:35:35.520 --> 1:35:40.519 the Kumii the Autumn, I'm sure other Tahona Autumn other 1:35:40.600 --> 1:35:44.760 tribes have had their their ancestral burial grounds as you mentioned, destroyed, 1:35:44.840 --> 1:35:47.240 and for a similar reason to the real Idea act. 1:35:47.320 --> 1:35:48.880 I think it was different. I think this was because 1:35:48.880 --> 1:35:50.560 it was done in an executive order and it was 1:35:50.600 --> 1:35:54.280 an emergency that they waived a lot of those. Normally 1:35:54.360 --> 1:35:56.640 they would have tribal nations would have the right to 1:35:56.760 --> 1:36:00.720 sort of inspect and do a survey before digging back. 1:36:00.720 --> 1:36:03.240 I know in twenty twenty they weren't doing that, right. 1:36:04.439 --> 1:36:08.200 No, they didn't know. So the Real Idea Act also 1:36:08.479 --> 1:36:10.840 has a law there to protect. 1:36:12.160 --> 1:36:15.840 Archaeological resources, so they were able to do those things 1:36:16.640 --> 1:36:20.400 even when there was if it was on federal land 1:36:21.240 --> 1:36:25.000 and it was an indigenous sacred site. 1:36:25.760 --> 1:36:25.960 Yeah. 1:36:26.680 --> 1:36:29.000 So another thing talking of federal land that we should 1:36:29.000 --> 1:36:33.040 probably mention is this concept of the Roosevelt Reservation that 1:36:33.360 --> 1:36:35.880 people might not be familiar with. Can you explain what 1:36:36.040 --> 1:36:36.880 that is to folks? 1:36:37.960 --> 1:36:39.120 The Roosevelt Reservation. 1:36:39.439 --> 1:36:42.800 It is the area the border about sixty feet away 1:36:43.000 --> 1:36:49.760 from where the border line or division is, and that's 1:36:49.840 --> 1:36:53.240 what's known as the Roosevelt Reservation. So that is an 1:36:53.320 --> 1:37:02.320 area that's right now mostly managed by CBP Border patron and. 1:37:02.439 --> 1:37:06.800 People can't it's like technically not it can't be private land, 1:37:06.880 --> 1:37:08.720 right or the government can take it at any point, 1:37:08.800 --> 1:37:12.040 Is that right exactly? I know that's what they were 1:37:12.120 --> 1:37:16.120 using in the case of the around Campo. That's what 1:37:16.360 --> 1:37:18.960 that's what they were doing. One thing I think we've 1:37:19.160 --> 1:37:21.920 neglected to do. I guess I spent half my life 1:37:21.960 --> 1:37:23.960 trying to do this. But I'll let you take a 1:37:24.000 --> 1:37:27.200 swing at it. Is like, can you describe these desert 1:37:27.320 --> 1:37:31.680 landscapes for people who are because people think of the desert, right, 1:37:31.720 --> 1:37:34.320 and they think of Osita wells like where where people 1:37:34.360 --> 1:37:36.120 like to go drive their vehicles, you know, and it 1:37:36.200 --> 1:37:40.240 looks like like Saudi Arabia. But that's not most of 1:37:40.360 --> 1:37:43.479 the desert. The desert is actually a very live place 1:37:43.800 --> 1:37:46.719 and a place full of like life that has struggled 1:37:46.760 --> 1:37:49.479 and made a way to exist there, can you explain. 1:37:49.640 --> 1:37:53.680 And it's a very special place, not just sort of 1:37:55.120 --> 1:37:58.240 because it's it's unique, but it has a real sort 1:37:58.280 --> 1:38:00.639 of well yeah, it has a uniqueness you can't really 1:38:00.640 --> 1:38:01.679 feel anywhere else in the world. 1:38:01.720 --> 1:38:05.560 I guess yes, Thank you, James. I definitely agree with 1:38:05.640 --> 1:38:06.040 you on that. 1:38:06.760 --> 1:38:10.600 As a person that grew up here and had this 1:38:10.800 --> 1:38:16.000 deep appreciation for the desert environment, I think it's it 1:38:16.120 --> 1:38:19.760 is such a beautiful area, and not only beautiful on 1:38:19.840 --> 1:38:24.519 the sense that it's The Sonoran Desert, for example, is 1:38:24.680 --> 1:38:27.400 considered the most biodiverse. 1:38:26.840 --> 1:38:27.800 Desert in the world. 1:38:28.520 --> 1:38:31.519 So yeah, so it's considered a desert because the amount 1:38:31.560 --> 1:38:34.559 of water that we have, but the amount of species 1:38:35.000 --> 1:38:37.519 it matches no other desert in the world. Here we 1:38:37.640 --> 1:38:41.000 have the most species of plants, most species of animals, 1:38:41.720 --> 1:38:45.479 and only for people like and people goes out there 1:38:45.600 --> 1:38:48.040 sometimes on a hike on the desert and might not 1:38:48.200 --> 1:38:51.280 see much of the wildlife there or older than the birds, 1:38:51.400 --> 1:38:53.840 and especially on areas where there is a little bit 1:38:53.880 --> 1:38:56.640 of water. But you got to remember also that the 1:38:56.720 --> 1:39:00.280 desert comes most alive at night, so that's when all 1:39:00.400 --> 1:39:03.880 the species you know that are not wanting to hang 1:39:03.920 --> 1:39:06.360 out on the heat of the desert, they come out 1:39:06.520 --> 1:39:09.559 and this place becomes like a whole other place at night. 1:39:09.720 --> 1:39:15.840 So it is it is definitely worth protecting this and 1:39:16.040 --> 1:39:20.280 every single desert, you know, because sometimes as we might 1:39:20.360 --> 1:39:24.040 not see the biodiversity in our first visit, it's there, 1:39:24.280 --> 1:39:29.320 and we like the amounts of plants and animals wor 1:39:29.479 --> 1:39:32.519 enough to sustain entire populations of people as well in 1:39:32.600 --> 1:39:37.360 the past. So I think once you build a relationship 1:39:37.400 --> 1:39:41.040 with the desert and able to experience, you and everybody 1:39:41.160 --> 1:39:46.840 that I have talked starts developing this really deep appreciation. 1:39:46.479 --> 1:39:47.280 For it for sure. 1:39:48.000 --> 1:39:50.519 Yeah, it sort of pulls you in once you once 1:39:50.600 --> 1:39:54.479 you appreciate, Yeah, you become a desert person. We're talking 1:39:54.520 --> 1:39:57.439 about this cumber the other day. How like you just 1:39:57.520 --> 1:39:59.360 turn into a desert. You know, you can see who 1:39:59.400 --> 1:40:02.240 the desert people are and here the people who haven't 1:40:02.240 --> 1:40:05.600 been at there before. So obviously the desert is a 1:40:05.640 --> 1:40:07.840 beautiful place and a very diverse place, but it's not 1:40:07.960 --> 1:40:11.639 a place that it is necessarily easy to cross, right, 1:40:11.840 --> 1:40:16.040 and when we as you've explained so well, there the 1:40:16.120 --> 1:40:18.439 wall is not a contiguous thing. It's full of gaps 1:40:18.479 --> 1:40:20.519 and holes and a lot of the places where there 1:40:20.520 --> 1:40:23.680 are gaps of places where it's hard to build and 1:40:23.760 --> 1:40:27.280 therefore it's hard to cross. Can you explain what this 1:40:28.360 --> 1:40:30.639 It creates a funnel, right, like a funneling effect through 1:40:30.680 --> 1:40:33.880 the gap sometimes. Can you explain what that means for 1:40:33.960 --> 1:40:35.200 people who are crossing north. 1:40:37.439 --> 1:40:43.479 Yeah, there is a huge issue these funnels or areas 1:40:43.520 --> 1:40:46.720 where there are no walls, because what's been happening and 1:40:46.840 --> 1:40:51.880 we observe is that as more people start going to 1:40:52.000 --> 1:40:56.200 these really remote areas of the desert, we have two issues. 1:40:56.280 --> 1:40:59.439 You know, First, people is putting themselves on bigger danger 1:41:00.040 --> 1:41:01.960 and they're more likely to. 1:41:03.600 --> 1:41:05.760 Get themselves hurt and some of them die. 1:41:06.080 --> 1:41:10.720 So as also, you start pushing up people to more 1:41:10.800 --> 1:41:14.080 remote areas out in the desert where it used to 1:41:14.160 --> 1:41:18.600 be these nature pristine environments. Now we have the impacts 1:41:18.920 --> 1:41:21.519 of people moving through these areas, and not only the 1:41:21.600 --> 1:41:24.360 impacts of the people, but you got the impacts of 1:41:24.520 --> 1:41:29.280 border patrol in the area with their trucks and draging 1:41:29.400 --> 1:41:31.480 tires to erase their footprints. 1:41:31.760 --> 1:41:33.839 And these are really fragile soils. 1:41:33.880 --> 1:41:38.320 Already opening new roads through the desert with ATVs or 1:41:38.439 --> 1:41:42.280 flying helicopters on these mountains, or drones or putting lights 1:41:42.360 --> 1:41:45.160 in the middle of an areas where it used to 1:41:45.240 --> 1:41:48.519 be one of the most darkest skies in the country. 1:41:48.960 --> 1:41:54.600 So all of those put together create huge issues for 1:41:55.160 --> 1:41:56.920 people and the environment as well. 1:41:57.360 --> 1:41:57.599 Yeah. 1:41:57.760 --> 1:42:01.479 Yeah, the light thing you mentioned is very I don't know, 1:42:01.600 --> 1:42:05.400 people again who haven't been to the desert won't understand 1:42:05.520 --> 1:42:07.439 how much more you can see when like there is 1:42:07.560 --> 1:42:09.760 no like hundreds of miles and there's a place I 1:42:09.880 --> 1:42:12.320 like to go which recently got a border patrol like substation, 1:42:12.520 --> 1:42:15.760 and now it's just like glowing and you can't see 1:42:15.800 --> 1:42:19.240 the milky way in things. In addition to the human impact, 1:42:19.280 --> 1:42:21.360 which is we said is terrible, right, Like I think 1:42:22.479 --> 1:42:25.479 eight one hundred and sixty people Border Patrol found in 1:42:25.520 --> 1:42:28.360 twenty twenty two had died crossing north. That's a very 1:42:28.520 --> 1:42:30.960 low estimate for the amount of people who died, and 1:42:31.840 --> 1:42:35.400 Border Patrol are kind of actively trying not to count 1:42:35.479 --> 1:42:39.240 all of the deaths according to agents I've spoken to. 1:42:39.439 --> 1:42:39.800 Right, So. 1:42:42.080 --> 1:42:45.040 This is a difficult topic because it's it's a horrible 1:42:45.120 --> 1:42:49.960 thing that like shouldn't happen. But I guess can we 1:42:50.120 --> 1:42:54.559 discuss how lethal these the wall is for people crossing 1:42:54.640 --> 1:42:56.439 north if you're comfortable talking about that. 1:42:57.840 --> 1:43:02.760 Yeah, Well, really the design of it, like on most 1:43:02.800 --> 1:43:05.840 of the places, it's a thirty foot wall with a 1:43:05.960 --> 1:43:07.240 metal plate on the top. 1:43:07.560 --> 1:43:10.000 And this for some. 1:43:11.840 --> 1:43:15.960 Sources I have heard that it was designed because when 1:43:16.000 --> 1:43:18.640 people reach a thirty food high they start kind of 1:43:18.840 --> 1:43:24.200 getting dizzy or nauseous, so they're more likely to fall down. 1:43:24.320 --> 1:43:27.200 So it's already like a dead apparatus, you know, like 1:43:27.360 --> 1:43:31.400 designed to kill. Still, people will venture and give it 1:43:31.479 --> 1:43:35.240 a try. Some young folks are almost it's kind of 1:43:35.920 --> 1:43:38.720 funny to see them climb how fast they're able to 1:43:38.800 --> 1:43:41.800 do it, but we got to remember that not only 1:43:42.040 --> 1:43:45.280 like young folks are trying to climb. You know, sometimes 1:43:45.320 --> 1:43:49.880 there is an older lady or sometimes an older man 1:43:50.080 --> 1:43:53.160 that wants to give it a try. And the rate 1:43:53.280 --> 1:43:58.080 of injuries definitely has increased. So much of people falling 1:43:58.720 --> 1:44:01.800 because they got this year, they got naushalls, they burn 1:44:01.880 --> 1:44:06.639 their hands, or they lost balance and then fall from 1:44:06.720 --> 1:44:07.559 thirty feet high. 1:44:07.840 --> 1:44:09.000 You know, it can be lethal. 1:44:09.560 --> 1:44:13.560 So we have a lot of broken legs, spine injuries, 1:44:13.800 --> 1:44:17.639 head trauma, people that has fall or people one person 1:44:17.800 --> 1:44:21.280 one time hang out from it and end up choking herself. 1:44:21.560 --> 1:44:25.280 So there is definitely a lot of dead when people 1:44:25.400 --> 1:44:26.479 try to go. 1:44:26.720 --> 1:44:27.439 Over the wall. 1:44:27.920 --> 1:44:30.560 But we also see people now just cutting through the 1:44:30.640 --> 1:44:34.160 bowlers so it's easier and then just put the thing back. 1:44:34.240 --> 1:44:36.519 So there is all kinds of people doing it in 1:44:36.640 --> 1:44:39.600 all different kinds of ways depending on the area, and 1:44:40.880 --> 1:44:44.960 we see a little bit of everything for sure. And 1:44:45.080 --> 1:44:46.720 of course, you know, if you try to reach for 1:44:46.840 --> 1:44:50.000 the gaps, then you have to do a longer hike 1:44:50.800 --> 1:44:54.880 and usually people is not even able to carry the 1:44:54.960 --> 1:44:56.439 amount of water that they need. 1:44:56.760 --> 1:44:58.040 To do these kind of hikes. 1:44:58.520 --> 1:45:00.360 We got to remember that a lot of the people 1:45:00.479 --> 1:45:03.160 that we encounter now in the border they come from 1:45:03.320 --> 1:45:06.280 other kinds of environments. They're not familiar with the desert. 1:45:06.800 --> 1:45:10.120 They come from tropical areas where they can find water everywhere. 1:45:10.680 --> 1:45:13.519 They are not used to the heat of the dry 1:45:13.600 --> 1:45:14.439 heat of the desert. 1:45:14.600 --> 1:45:17.280 They are not used to the cold of the nights 1:45:17.320 --> 1:45:20.240 of the desert. So all of these factors. 1:45:19.880 --> 1:45:24.040 Make this environment really challenging for people to try to 1:45:24.160 --> 1:45:24.519 cross it. 1:45:25.200 --> 1:45:26.879 Yeah, tell in a lot of ways. 1:45:26.720 --> 1:45:30.720 Yeah, definitely. And it's a very hard environment. Like I 1:45:30.760 --> 1:45:32.200 spent a lot of time camping in the desert, and 1:45:32.320 --> 1:45:35.679 I don't think there's a yet that I've been hiking 1:45:35.760 --> 1:45:38.400 in the desert that I haven't rescued someone who was 1:45:39.160 --> 1:45:41.280 very well equipped and had just gone on a day hike, 1:45:41.360 --> 1:45:44.840 right and they've run out of water, they've overheated, they've 1:45:44.920 --> 1:45:48.200 drunk water not electrolytes, and they've got hypenetremia whatever it 1:45:48.360 --> 1:45:50.519 is like that. And that's people who went to our 1:45:50.520 --> 1:45:52.840 ei today before little learned, people who've been walking since 1:45:52.880 --> 1:45:56.599 the Darian Gap, or you know, people who have much 1:45:56.720 --> 1:46:00.639 lesser means to equip themselves. It's a very dangerous environment. 1:46:01.960 --> 1:46:04.799 People maybe listening and thinking, Like I think with immigration 1:46:05.479 --> 1:46:09.639 issues and specifically with the wall and the border, it's 1:46:09.680 --> 1:46:12.720 such an apparatus right the whole, you know, DHS and 1:46:12.720 --> 1:46:15.200 its one hundred and seventy five billion dollar budget. It's 1:46:15.240 --> 1:46:20.840 such an apparatus that people can feel powerless in trying 1:46:21.000 --> 1:46:23.519 to just put a stop to this, to make this change, 1:46:23.600 --> 1:46:26.679 to make this even you know, a little bit more humane, 1:46:27.439 --> 1:46:29.560 just so we seem to like ratch it up the 1:46:29.760 --> 1:46:33.799 evil meter every year at the border, regardless of Democrats 1:46:33.880 --> 1:46:37.240 or Republicans, Like, it doesn't matter. What would you suggest, 1:46:37.280 --> 1:46:40.400 folks listening can do to make it more humane, to 1:46:41.560 --> 1:46:47.439 advocate for like even less impactful border policies on the 1:46:47.520 --> 1:46:48.960 environment or on people. 1:46:51.240 --> 1:46:53.320 Yeah, I think we need to look at what we 1:46:53.479 --> 1:46:56.519 have done so far and look at the results. You know, 1:46:56.800 --> 1:47:01.560 I think we can see that in some areas to 1:47:01.640 --> 1:47:05.439 build a border wall a mile of border wall, we're 1:47:05.520 --> 1:47:09.920 spending over thirty million dollars, and I think it's important 1:47:10.040 --> 1:47:12.200 to think about what can. 1:47:12.080 --> 1:47:13.000 We do with that money. 1:47:13.040 --> 1:47:15.120 You know, there is a lot of resources that we 1:47:15.320 --> 1:47:20.759 have used for this false sense of security a border 1:47:20.840 --> 1:47:25.560 wall can give us, and it's just not working the 1:47:25.640 --> 1:47:27.920 way it's supposed to be working, and it's putting a 1:47:28.000 --> 1:47:31.920 lot of pressure on the environment. And if we really 1:47:32.240 --> 1:47:34.720 care about the environment, I think that should not be 1:47:35.640 --> 1:47:39.760 after talk conversation because I think when we listen to 1:47:40.000 --> 1:47:43.000 politicians and it's our next time to go out to vote, 1:47:43.120 --> 1:47:46.360 we need to really start asking the questions about the environment. 1:47:46.840 --> 1:47:53.000 I know it's important that we here in the border narrative. 1:47:52.640 --> 1:47:59.360 Of politicians talking about immigration, border security, trade with Mexico, 1:47:59.680 --> 1:48:02.799 but there is very little talk in the border around 1:48:02.840 --> 1:48:06.000 the environmental issues, you know, and that shouldn't be an afterthought. 1:48:07.439 --> 1:48:10.759 Border people, people that lives in the borderlands also should 1:48:10.800 --> 1:48:14.960 have a chance to live on a on a good environment, 1:48:15.080 --> 1:48:19.600 a clean environment. Yeah and yeah, So I think a 1:48:19.720 --> 1:48:22.720 solution or for people things that they can do is 1:48:22.800 --> 1:48:27.599 definitely like ask those questions when it's time to bote 1:48:27.920 --> 1:48:32.920 and see how can we really address root causes. You know, 1:48:34.080 --> 1:48:37.960 the border wall is just a medieval solution that it's 1:48:38.280 --> 1:48:39.800 really trying to stop such a. 1:48:41.560 --> 1:48:45.160 Complex issue. By doing that, it's not going to work out. 1:48:45.320 --> 1:48:50.280 So it's originally Border Patrol said that the border wall 1:48:50.479 --> 1:48:52.800 is just the only intention it has is to slow 1:48:52.880 --> 1:48:55.800 down people for at least five minutes. Well, is it 1:48:55.920 --> 1:48:58.320 really worth it then, you know, to slow them five 1:48:58.400 --> 1:49:01.960 more minutes to all these impacts and all these expenses 1:49:02.040 --> 1:49:02.599 that we're doing. 1:49:03.360 --> 1:49:03.479 Uh. 1:49:03.960 --> 1:49:07.160 And the maintenance that nobody has talked about yet is 1:49:07.320 --> 1:49:10.280 that we have sections of the wall already that they're 1:49:10.360 --> 1:49:13.400 falling apart because it was just thrown up really fast. 1:49:13.479 --> 1:49:13.640 You know. 1:49:13.800 --> 1:49:17.880 The erosion is already exposing the foundation. And we are 1:49:17.960 --> 1:49:21.080 looking at millions of millions of dollars that will come 1:49:21.560 --> 1:49:24.040 just to try to keep it every year after every 1:49:24.120 --> 1:49:24.880 monsoon season. 1:49:25.439 --> 1:49:25.679 Yeah. 1:49:25.800 --> 1:49:28.720 Yeah, I know in the on the real grand as well, 1:49:28.800 --> 1:49:32.479 like the wake from the border patrol boats is causing 1:49:32.520 --> 1:49:35.920 the river to undercut the foundation of the wall. Yeah, 1:49:36.439 --> 1:49:41.120 which is fantastic on the part of the government. Good work. 1:49:41.280 --> 1:49:44.559 And yeah, Eric, where can people follow you and your 1:49:44.600 --> 1:49:46.519 efforts if they want to, if they want to follow 1:49:46.520 --> 1:49:49.759 along online and maybe see some pitches of the border 1:49:49.840 --> 1:49:51.040 and hear more about what you're doing. 1:49:52.360 --> 1:49:53.080 Thank you, James. 1:49:53.080 --> 1:49:56.200 I appreciate that we do have a website, a Sierra 1:49:56.320 --> 1:50:00.200 Club Border Length. You can learn all about the waivers there. 1:50:00.920 --> 1:50:03.320 You can learn a lot of the work that we've 1:50:03.360 --> 1:50:05.679 been doing in the past. We're part of a larger 1:50:05.840 --> 1:50:12.280 coalition of environmental related border organizations. We work with people 1:50:12.439 --> 1:50:15.920 all the way from California through Texas, but mostly here 1:50:16.000 --> 1:50:20.000 in Arizona. And we have our social media cre A 1:50:20.080 --> 1:50:23.960 Club Borderlands. You can find us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, 1:50:24.479 --> 1:50:27.120 all of the different We have a YouTube channel as well, 1:50:27.479 --> 1:50:29.680 and you can see some of the videos of the 1:50:29.800 --> 1:50:34.040 documenting that we do. We're able to go down to 1:50:34.160 --> 1:50:37.439 the boorder document with drawn so people can actually look 1:50:37.520 --> 1:50:41.519 at the irony of the whole project. We do also 1:50:41.640 --> 1:50:44.519 autiings that we take people out into the desert to 1:50:46.479 --> 1:50:49.800 get familiar with the issues themselves. We do clean up 1:50:50.800 --> 1:50:54.840 at the local rivers and collaborate with other organizations, all 1:50:54.920 --> 1:50:57.679 kinds of works. So with people and the audiences based 1:50:57.720 --> 1:51:00.200 here in Arizona, they're welcome to join us to some 1:51:00.360 --> 1:51:03.200 of these audience or activities that we do with the community. 1:51:04.320 --> 1:51:07.000 We are going to do an announcement probably in the 1:51:07.080 --> 1:51:12.080 next month because since twenty nineteen, Sierra Club, in collaboration 1:51:12.280 --> 1:51:16.080 with the Southern Border Community coalitions to the federal government 1:51:16.960 --> 1:51:20.360 for the legal use of funds of the two eighty 1:51:20.400 --> 1:51:24.040 four and two eight h eight funds, which were funds 1:51:24.080 --> 1:51:28.679 that were originally allocated for the military and drug related 1:51:29.000 --> 1:51:32.200 programs that were used to border work construction. 1:51:32.400 --> 1:51:33.840 So we sue the government and. 1:51:33.960 --> 1:51:37.000 We're about to settle on this and we're hoping that 1:51:37.080 --> 1:51:40.680 we're going to get good results on environmental remediation and 1:51:40.840 --> 1:51:43.360 wildlife passages along the southern border. 1:51:43.840 --> 1:51:47.040 Oh great, that's good to hear. Yeah, there are a 1:51:47.120 --> 1:51:50.479 lot of lawsuits. Individual tribes suit the government as well 1:51:50.680 --> 1:51:53.639 for that, and so we'll have to do a lawsuit 1:51:53.760 --> 1:51:56.479 roundup one day and have you back. Well, thank you 1:51:56.600 --> 1:51:58.840 very much, Eric, thank you for joining us and sharing 1:51:58.880 --> 1:52:00.000 some of your experiences along. 1:51:59.840 --> 1:52:05.120 The Absolutely thank you for the invitation, and I'll see 1:52:05.640 --> 1:52:06.320 talk to you soon. 1:52:06.600 --> 1:52:25.719 Yeah, oh boy, it could happen here a podcast about 1:52:25.760 --> 1:52:28.920 what we like to call the crumbles, which is the 1:52:29.120 --> 1:52:34.160 process of the aspects of modern life that were nice 1:52:34.280 --> 1:52:38.479 and convenient and functional breaking down as the climate and 1:52:38.600 --> 1:52:43.720 our political systems continue to fray around the edges and 1:52:43.920 --> 1:52:47.960 gradually collapse. Today a lot of you are living through 1:52:48.200 --> 1:52:51.439 a pretty undeniable piece of that. If you're anywhere kind 1:52:51.439 --> 1:52:53.960 of in the Eastern Seaboard, if you're in New York City, 1:52:54.360 --> 1:52:56.599 if you're in Philly, if you're in d C. If 1:52:56.680 --> 1:53:00.160 you're in one of the other places. At Baltimore, you're 1:53:00.200 --> 1:53:03.040 dealing with air quality the likes of which you've probably 1:53:03.200 --> 1:53:06.960 never seen unless you fled there from the West Coast. 1:53:08.120 --> 1:53:11.360 Basically everyone who lives in the northeast of the United 1:53:11.400 --> 1:53:14.200 States right now, as well as a huge number of Canadians, 1:53:14.960 --> 1:53:18.639 are absolutely cloaked in wildfire smoke, drowning in the ghosts 1:53:18.720 --> 1:53:22.240 of a thousand forests. And that's a bummer. It's a bummer, 1:53:22.360 --> 1:53:25.800 and it's a real problem. And so I wanted to 1:53:25.880 --> 1:53:32.160 kind of sit down with Margaret Killjoy, our resident Prepper extraordinaire. Hi, Margaret, Hello, 1:53:32.600 --> 1:53:32.880 how are you? 1:53:33.120 --> 1:53:33.320 Yeah? 1:53:34.640 --> 1:53:37.840 Doing great? Because we're not drowning in wildfire smoke. But 1:53:38.600 --> 1:53:41.479 three years ago in Portland in twenty twenty, the air 1:53:41.560 --> 1:53:43.720 quality was even worse than it is in New York 1:53:43.760 --> 1:53:48.240 City right now. So I've got some experience dealing with this, 1:53:49.080 --> 1:53:51.400 and Margaret, you spend a lot of time thinking about 1:53:51.520 --> 1:53:55.439 practical prepping, and that's something that I think a lot 1:53:55.520 --> 1:53:58.840 of folks probably are wishing that they had spent more 1:53:58.920 --> 1:54:00.960 time doing right now. This is the kind of thing 1:54:01.000 --> 1:54:04.040 that happens. You know, it's not on you know, anybody 1:54:04.160 --> 1:54:06.599 is like a moral thing. But it happens anytime there's 1:54:06.640 --> 1:54:10.960 a disaster that affects everybody at once, all the stuff 1:54:11.080 --> 1:54:14.800 that is useful for countering that disaster sells out or 1:54:15.000 --> 1:54:19.240 is looted very very quickly, and then people suddenly don't 1:54:19.280 --> 1:54:22.040 have the kind of options for tools that they need. 1:54:23.560 --> 1:54:26.600 You know, this is not great. So I wanted to 1:54:26.680 --> 1:54:28.880 kind of sit down first off and kind of talk 1:54:28.920 --> 1:54:31.960 about one of the better airsats tools that you can 1:54:32.040 --> 1:54:34.760 put together if you are trying to deal with the 1:54:34.880 --> 1:54:38.080 problem of making your air cleaner. And basically we have 1:54:38.160 --> 1:54:40.600 to kind of split this problem into two. Right, there 1:54:40.680 --> 1:54:42.320 is the problem of what do I do if I'm 1:54:42.360 --> 1:54:44.960 going outside, and we'll talk about that later. But there's 1:54:45.200 --> 1:54:47.720 stuff that you purchase, you know, that is the only 1:54:47.800 --> 1:54:50.200 things that's going or stuff that you already had on 1:54:50.320 --> 1:54:52.560 hand is all that's going to help in that instance. 1:54:52.680 --> 1:54:55.120 But there are some things you can do to keep 1:54:55.160 --> 1:55:00.400 your inside space clean of particulate and relatively safe that 1:55:00.560 --> 1:55:03.680 don't require at least as many things to purchase, and 1:55:03.800 --> 1:55:06.400 that are you know, can be made with stuff that 1:55:06.480 --> 1:55:11.680 you probably are likelier to have on hand. So I 1:55:11.800 --> 1:55:14.520 want to talk first about what you can do to 1:55:14.640 --> 1:55:19.080 like filter your indoor air. You know, in Portland when 1:55:19.120 --> 1:55:25.760 we had our horrible fucking wildfire apocalypse, yellow smog blanketing 1:55:25.800 --> 1:55:28.240 the world and making everything look like fucking blade Runner, 1:55:28.960 --> 1:55:32.160 everyone at least had gas masks and full face respirators, 1:55:32.200 --> 1:55:35.320 which you know, folks in the Northeast right now haven't 1:55:35.360 --> 1:55:37.880 gone through that experience and so don't have that kind 1:55:37.880 --> 1:55:39.520 of stuff on hand. But what we didn't have in 1:55:39.600 --> 1:55:43.120 Portland was the stuff that can keep your indoors cleaner. 1:55:43.280 --> 1:55:46.720 For one thing, people don't have like HEPA filters or 1:55:46.800 --> 1:55:49.920 central air you know in Oregon as often as they 1:55:50.000 --> 1:55:53.560 have it in some other parts of this country, and 1:55:53.720 --> 1:55:56.800 so a lot of people wound up creating building for 1:55:56.960 --> 1:56:02.520 themselves what are called Corsey Rosenthal box now a Coarsey 1:56:02.680 --> 1:56:07.480 Rosenthal box is a kind of like air filtration system 1:56:07.720 --> 1:56:11.320 for rooms that's made up of a box fan and 1:56:11.680 --> 1:56:14.160 five air filters, like the kind of filters that you're 1:56:14.200 --> 1:56:16.520 going to use for your HVAC system in your house. 1:56:16.640 --> 1:56:18.880 Right pretty much most houses are going to have some 1:56:19.040 --> 1:56:23.920 kind of like air filter already, and they're also widely available, 1:56:24.120 --> 1:56:26.080 Like if you go to any home depot or lows, 1:56:26.080 --> 1:56:27.800 they're going to have a shitload of air filters. You 1:56:27.800 --> 1:56:30.200 can use multiple different types. The bigger the air filter, 1:56:30.720 --> 1:56:35.800 the more air it'll handle. Coursey Rosenthal boxes were invented 1:56:36.120 --> 1:56:39.760 kind of right at the start of the pandemic. One 1:56:39.800 --> 1:56:41.880 of the guys who made it, Richard Corsi, was an 1:56:41.960 --> 1:56:44.720 environmental engineer who kind of realized as soon as the 1:56:44.760 --> 1:56:48.240 pandos started that a lot of poor people were going 1:56:48.280 --> 1:56:50.320 to be absolutely fucked when it came to filtering air 1:56:50.400 --> 1:56:53.560 in their homes. Because good you can get like a 1:56:53.680 --> 1:56:58.640 nice Hepa filter, like standalone Hepa filter, but they're usually 1:56:58.760 --> 1:57:02.160 several hundred dollars. So he wanted to try and provide 1:57:02.200 --> 1:57:04.360 people with something that could make that was a lot cheaper. 1:57:04.760 --> 1:57:08.280 He had worked previously with the CEO of a filter 1:57:08.440 --> 1:57:10.240 company that I think is based in Texas, so he 1:57:10.360 --> 1:57:13.240 called that guy up and they collaborated on a design 1:57:14.160 --> 1:57:17.000 that basically used you build like a box out of 1:57:17.080 --> 1:57:19.840 air filters and you stick a back box fan on 1:57:19.920 --> 1:57:22.760 top of it. If you google Coursey c O R 1:57:23.000 --> 1:57:26.040 S I DASH Rosenthal R O S E N T 1:57:26.360 --> 1:57:30.440 H A L box, you'll find the Wikipedia page which 1:57:30.480 --> 1:57:32.840 has a guide to making these. It's very simple. If 1:57:32.880 --> 1:57:35.440 you're not crafty at all or have no real tools, 1:57:35.800 --> 1:57:39.520 you can still make it work. I built won a 1:57:39.600 --> 1:57:42.160 couple of years ago, you know, when should happened in Portland, 1:57:42.200 --> 1:57:44.760 as did several people I knew. And they're not hard 1:57:44.880 --> 1:57:48.280 to do. And the most common size of box that 1:57:48.360 --> 1:57:50.880 you can build will allow it'll basically change the air 1:57:50.960 --> 1:57:55.200 out in a room five full times per hour and 1:57:55.240 --> 1:57:58.440 a five hundred square foot room, which is reasonably good. 1:57:58.720 --> 1:58:01.520 It'll make a meaningful difference in your indoor air quality 1:58:01.640 --> 1:58:04.440 if you're like blanketed in Hell's mog right now. 1:58:04.680 --> 1:58:06.600 Yeah, that's about That's about the same as like one 1:58:06.680 --> 1:58:08.320 hundred and fifty dollars. If you were to like go 1:58:08.440 --> 1:58:11.400 out and buy, yeah, a five hundred square foot filter, 1:58:11.640 --> 1:58:13.200 it would be about one hundred and fifty bucks. 1:58:13.280 --> 1:58:15.800 And that is about what this will cost you right now, 1:58:16.200 --> 1:58:18.280 I think, because shit's got more expensive. At least that's 1:58:18.320 --> 1:58:21.680 what a recent Outside magazine article gave the cost of 1:58:21.760 --> 1:58:24.800 constructing this. Oh interesting, that said you might be able 1:58:24.840 --> 1:58:27.040 to get it for cheaper. There's a good chance. That's 1:58:27.040 --> 1:58:29.960 if you're buying everything. Most people in most places have 1:58:30.040 --> 1:58:32.320 a box fan, you know, and most people have a 1:58:32.400 --> 1:58:35.120 couple of filters, which which should cut down on the cost. 1:58:36.440 --> 1:58:38.200 You know, it'll depend on kind of where you are 1:58:38.320 --> 1:58:41.720 and what things are are running. But HEPA filters are 1:58:41.760 --> 1:58:45.160 also standalone ones likelier to sell out fast as opposed 1:58:45.160 --> 1:58:47.720 to kind of the raw components to making a Coarsey 1:58:47.840 --> 1:58:51.280 Rosenthal filter, so you may find it easier to get 1:58:51.400 --> 1:58:55.320 access to I like the Corsy Rosenthal filter for a 1:58:55.400 --> 1:58:59.680 couple of other reasons. Obviously, it's accessible and it's comparatively affordable, 1:59:00.040 --> 1:59:02.080 but it also is something that you can make yourself 1:59:02.240 --> 1:59:05.560 that will have a meaningful impact on how you weather 1:59:05.960 --> 1:59:10.040 this event. That's important psychologically in a disaster, feeling as 1:59:10.080 --> 1:59:12.520 if you have some sort of agency by actually doing 1:59:12.600 --> 1:59:14.960 the useful thing. And it can also be important from 1:59:15.000 --> 1:59:17.960 a community point of view. You can theoretically raise money 1:59:18.000 --> 1:59:20.920 and put together people to make Corsey Rosenthal boxes and 1:59:21.080 --> 1:59:23.280 hand them out to people who maybe can't afford them, 1:59:23.480 --> 1:59:27.080 or have mobility issues or less able to get the equipment. 1:59:27.760 --> 1:59:30.120 That's the kind of thing that builds community connection and 1:59:30.240 --> 1:59:35.080 also offers an immediate alleviation of suffering and health consequences 1:59:35.400 --> 1:59:39.000 for people, which is the kind of thing that I 1:59:39.280 --> 1:59:43.080 like to see people doing in a disaster like this. 1:59:43.760 --> 1:59:46.840 I also kind of like this filter because it represents 1:59:47.040 --> 1:59:51.040 a rare example of people you might call elites taking 1:59:51.120 --> 1:59:54.160 immediate action to ensure cash poor individuals had a life 1:59:54.200 --> 1:59:56.880 saving tool available to themselves. It's one of those kind 1:59:56.880 --> 1:59:59.040 of rare examples from the start of the pandemic of 1:59:59.200 --> 2:00:02.040 like that radical solidarity we saw bits and pieces of. 2:00:03.120 --> 2:00:06.200 And I think Jim Rosenthal and Richard Corsi are pretty 2:00:06.240 --> 2:00:09.160 cool in my book for figuring out this thing. So 2:00:10.320 --> 2:00:13.000 you know, there's a lot that's nice about these filters. 2:00:13.440 --> 2:00:15.680 So I just looked at the cost of making one. 2:00:15.760 --> 2:00:17.160 I just like kind of added it together, and it 2:00:17.200 --> 2:00:18.960 looks like you could probably make one for about sixty 2:00:19.000 --> 2:00:19.400 five bucks. 2:00:19.520 --> 2:00:21.240 Oh great, great, great grade. It is probably the outside 2:00:21.240 --> 2:00:23.360 guy was probably buying all the Gucci shit, right. 2:00:23.560 --> 2:00:25.240 If you just buy cheap, you need at least a 2:00:25.320 --> 2:00:28.080 MERV thirteen filter. That's the level of filter where it 2:00:28.160 --> 2:00:31.240 starts cutting out smoke. And if you get the twenty 2:00:31.280 --> 2:00:33.320 inch filters, which I think is what usually people are 2:00:33.320 --> 2:00:36.960 getting a twenty inch box fan, and so it's and 2:00:37.000 --> 2:00:39.200 then you only need four filters, I believe, because the 2:00:39.240 --> 2:00:42.680 bottom isn't sucking air in the bottom ends up a 2:00:42.920 --> 2:00:45.320 flat when I was looking at it earlier today. But 2:00:45.360 --> 2:00:46.840 you've built one and I haven't. 2:00:46.640 --> 2:00:50.200 So yeah, honestly it was three years ago. Yeah, everybody, 2:00:50.400 --> 2:00:52.640 I misspoke saying five. I think you can do it 2:00:53.040 --> 2:00:55.360 just fine with four. I'm not sure if either we 2:00:55.720 --> 2:00:58.000 did it weird when we did it last or if 2:00:58.000 --> 2:01:01.760 I was just rumbering wrong. But that means, yeah, a 2:01:01.840 --> 2:01:04.720 lot more available. Like I had three filters on hand 2:01:04.960 --> 2:01:07.920 in my house this morning, just because that's how many, 2:01:08.120 --> 2:01:10.760 you know, I usually keep as a backup, So a 2:01:10.800 --> 2:01:14.480 lot of you are probably in a similar situation. And yeah, 2:01:14.560 --> 2:01:18.320 that's a more accessible thing compared to the equipment. We're 2:01:18.320 --> 2:01:21.960 about to start talking about stuff like respirators and stuff 2:01:22.040 --> 2:01:24.680 like standalone HEPA filters, which are likely to sell out 2:01:24.800 --> 2:01:27.040 pretty quickly as people go to all of the stores 2:01:27.120 --> 2:01:28.040 to buy up all the things. 2:01:28.120 --> 2:01:30.480 Although I will say it's almost depressing right now. I 2:01:30.880 --> 2:01:33.040 was checking availability for some of my East Coast friends. 2:01:33.120 --> 2:01:35.440 I'm actually an East Coast friend normally, but I went 2:01:35.520 --> 2:01:38.480 to the land of Smoke, the usual smoke Pacific Northwest 2:01:39.480 --> 2:01:43.000 and missed it. But most things are still available right now, 2:01:43.200 --> 2:01:45.440 at least as of recording. I don't know whether it's 2:01:45.520 --> 2:01:51.080 people just haven't put it together that it's necessary, or 2:01:51.120 --> 2:01:53.720 people felt like they couldn't afford it. A lot of 2:01:53.720 --> 2:01:55.240 stuff is still in stock as of this. 2:01:55.760 --> 2:01:57.720 That's really good to hear, because that's what we're about 2:01:57.760 --> 2:02:00.320 to get into. So I did want to kind of 2:02:00.360 --> 2:02:03.120 lead into this, moving from this kind of what I 2:02:03.160 --> 2:02:06.040 think is inspiring about the Coursey Rosenthal filter, which is 2:02:06.600 --> 2:02:11.080 that it's something that is accessible, something that like people 2:02:11.160 --> 2:02:13.520 can work on and provide for each other together, and 2:02:13.640 --> 2:02:16.800 sort of representative of the kind of radical solidarity you 2:02:16.920 --> 2:02:21.400 see in disasters. I think that's kind of particularly meaningful 2:02:21.600 --> 2:02:27.280 to me because of why this air quality event is 2:02:27.640 --> 2:02:30.760 so frightening to folks. You know, people who are in 2:02:30.840 --> 2:02:33.000 New York or Philly or Richmond or DC or a 2:02:33.040 --> 2:02:36.360 lot of other places in the Northeast have not dealt 2:02:36.640 --> 2:02:41.040 with this kind of air quality before. This is because 2:02:41.120 --> 2:02:44.120 most people who are young in those areas, because most 2:02:44.240 --> 2:02:47.840 young Americans have had the privilege of experiencing air pollution 2:02:48.000 --> 2:02:51.480 primarily as either an annoyance or as an abstract concept. 2:02:52.040 --> 2:02:54.400 A big part of why is that the Clean Air Act, 2:02:54.520 --> 2:02:58.280 instituted in nineteen sixty three, did a huge amount to 2:02:58.560 --> 2:03:01.120 stop the kind of poisoning of the sky that led 2:03:01.160 --> 2:03:03.960 to fairly regular smog events in the fifties and early 2:03:04.040 --> 2:03:06.520 to mid nineteen sixties, even nineteen seventies in a lot 2:03:06.600 --> 2:03:08.760 of parts of this country. You know, it took a while. 2:03:08.880 --> 2:03:11.520 There was more involved than just the Clean Air Act, 2:03:11.840 --> 2:03:14.440 but shit like this used to be a lot more common, 2:03:15.080 --> 2:03:18.360 and Americans suffered from a variety of illnesses, including adult 2:03:18.440 --> 2:03:21.800 onset emphysema or young adult on set mphysima at a 2:03:21.920 --> 2:03:25.080 much higher rate because of stuff like this. If you 2:03:25.200 --> 2:03:27.680 are young, and by young, I mean like my age, 2:03:27.800 --> 2:03:31.560 Margaret's age, you know, not all that young. Because air 2:03:31.640 --> 2:03:34.880 quality in the United States has been significantly better than 2:03:34.920 --> 2:03:36.960 it was for like my parents when they were kids 2:03:37.000 --> 2:03:40.360 for quite a while. You have benefited from a pretty 2:03:40.440 --> 2:03:47.640 remarkably successful campaign to render Americans at least less vulnerable 2:03:47.880 --> 2:03:51.480 to them to this kind of pollution. Now, this came 2:03:51.480 --> 2:03:54.560 alongside years of others' reforms and things like emission standards, 2:03:54.600 --> 2:03:58.080 which were successful enough that in like West La right now, 2:03:58.160 --> 2:04:00.200 a lot of days of the year you can see 2:04:00.240 --> 2:04:03.240 the mountains. That was not a thing for people who 2:04:03.280 --> 2:04:06.360 lived in Los Angeles and say the nineteen seventies. I 2:04:06.400 --> 2:04:08.720 had an annual check up right after I moved there 2:04:08.840 --> 2:04:12.880 with my doctor in you know, southern California, and I 2:04:12.920 --> 2:04:15.240 asked him, like what life had been like there during 2:04:15.280 --> 2:04:17.080 the smog years. And the thing that he mentioned to 2:04:17.160 --> 2:04:19.040 me that stuck with me is that he had a 2:04:19.240 --> 2:04:22.200 shitload of like patients in their twenties who had like 2:04:22.360 --> 2:04:26.080 the early symptoms of emphysema, which is just not a 2:04:26.200 --> 2:04:31.440 thing that really occurred occurs in southern California anymore. Although, 2:04:31.920 --> 2:04:35.840 you know, because of climate change, there are similar things 2:04:35.880 --> 2:04:37.880 that are starting to hit. You know, there's a number 2:04:37.920 --> 2:04:42.160 of like fungal based infections that people are getting, particularly 2:04:42.200 --> 2:04:45.200 in the valley that's really nasty, and wildfire smoke could 2:04:45.280 --> 2:04:48.280 bring back a lot of this stuff. And so, yeah, 2:04:48.720 --> 2:04:51.760 we're kind of looking at a lot of the gains 2:04:52.040 --> 2:04:56.760 in public health caused by reducing you know, the amount 2:04:56.800 --> 2:04:59.360 of smog in the air going away as a result 2:04:59.480 --> 2:05:04.680 of you know, externalities that can't be controlled locally. Now, 2:05:04.800 --> 2:05:07.480 the downside of the really lovely state of affairs that 2:05:07.560 --> 2:05:09.400 was kind of ushered into by the Clean Air Act 2:05:09.560 --> 2:05:12.560 is that most Americans have spent their lives in kind 2:05:12.600 --> 2:05:15.680 of a bubble of artificially pure air, while the negative 2:05:15.680 --> 2:05:19.400 externalities that made are tech heavy lives possible were exported 2:05:19.440 --> 2:05:23.120 to the global South, and those people experienced with increasing 2:05:23.200 --> 2:05:26.800 regularity the kind of catastrophic pollution that in an earlier 2:05:26.840 --> 2:05:29.480 age here caused the Cuyahoga River in Cleveland to light 2:05:29.560 --> 2:05:33.879 on fire every spring or so. Globally, in twenty eighteen, 2:05:34.080 --> 2:05:37.120 some eight point seven million deaths were caused by air pollution, 2:05:37.640 --> 2:05:41.520 specifically pollution created via the burning of fossil fuels. David 2:05:41.560 --> 2:05:44.960 Wallace Wells, who writes about climate catastrophe better than most people, 2:05:45.360 --> 2:05:47.600 put the cost this way in a testimony before the 2:05:47.720 --> 2:05:50.240 US Senate Committee on the Budget in twenty twenty one. 2:05:51.000 --> 2:05:54.600 Those punishments are harrowingly widespread. The Lancet puts the global 2:05:54.640 --> 2:05:57.320 annual death toll of air pollution at nine million. This 2:05:57.520 --> 2:06:00.280 is dying at the scale of the Holocaust every single year. 2:06:00.600 --> 2:06:03.360 In India, where three hundred and forty nine thousand stillbirths 2:06:03.400 --> 2:06:06.000 and miscarriages have been attributed annually to the effects of 2:06:06.040 --> 2:06:08.720 air pollution, the average resident of Delhi has had his 2:06:08.880 --> 2:06:11.520 or her life expectancy shortened by more than nine years 2:06:11.760 --> 2:06:15.200 from the repetitive inhalation of smog. Globally, the average figure 2:06:15.320 --> 2:06:16.000 is two years. 2:06:17.000 --> 2:06:17.760 So this is bad. 2:06:18.160 --> 2:06:20.200 So this is real bad, and it's one of those 2:06:20.240 --> 2:06:24.680 things that we're it's so shocking and traumatic to people 2:06:24.800 --> 2:06:27.720 right now because we haven't experienced this in most of 2:06:27.800 --> 2:06:30.760 the US outside of like, yeah, the West, you know 2:06:31.120 --> 2:06:34.000 recently as the wildfires have gotten worst for quite a while. 2:06:34.680 --> 2:06:38.240 But the problems that cause this we were, you know, 2:06:39.080 --> 2:06:43.680 suffered by people outside of the United States consistently for years. 2:06:44.360 --> 2:06:46.720 Like one of the things that's you know, you've kind 2:06:46.760 --> 2:06:48.760 of seen on like Twitter and shit is like people 2:06:48.800 --> 2:06:50.520 in the West Coast and the East Coast fighting about 2:06:50.560 --> 2:06:53.240 who's had it worse in terms of wildfire smog lately, 2:06:53.760 --> 2:06:56.080 and like, well, the answer if you want to talk 2:06:56.120 --> 2:06:58.360 about who's been dealing with this the worst and the 2:06:58.440 --> 2:07:01.200 longest is like people in fucking Day, people in Shinzhen, 2:07:01.880 --> 2:07:06.320 you know, the in China. Like this is a problem 2:07:06.400 --> 2:07:09.640 that is primarily born I mean, this is not in 2:07:09.760 --> 2:07:12.520 the US too, by the poor, but it's been born 2:07:12.680 --> 2:07:14.800 by the poor outside of the United States because we 2:07:14.880 --> 2:07:18.240 successfully externalized a lot of the consequences of our lifestyles, 2:07:19.360 --> 2:07:24.240 and ideally the hopeful thing is that perhaps experiencing this 2:07:24.520 --> 2:07:27.240 in New York City, which is, if you're not aware, 2:07:27.560 --> 2:07:30.400 we're the only writers that people apparently listen to live 2:07:31.600 --> 2:07:35.160 will cause some kind of enhanced solidarity for the folks 2:07:35.320 --> 2:07:38.280 in what you might call or what often is described 2:07:38.280 --> 2:07:40.600 as the Global South, who are have been dealing with 2:07:40.720 --> 2:07:42.960 this for years and will continue to deal with this 2:07:43.080 --> 2:07:45.680 in a much more severe form with much fewer resources 2:07:45.800 --> 2:07:49.160 available to them. If you are currently living in one 2:07:49.160 --> 2:07:52.520 of the great cities besieged by wildfire smoke, your life 2:07:52.560 --> 2:07:54.960 span has already been shortened. Now, I'm not trying to 2:07:55.000 --> 2:07:58.440 be like panic inducing. We're talking about like by the 2:07:58.480 --> 2:08:00.760 same it would be like if you had smoked half 2:08:00.800 --> 2:08:03.320 a pack of cigarettes since this all started. It's kind 2:08:03.320 --> 2:08:06.960 of similar to that. But there is no safe amount 2:08:07.000 --> 2:08:09.360 of time to inhale particulate in the quantities when you're 2:08:09.360 --> 2:08:12.080 talking about AQI over four hundred. There's no safe amount 2:08:12.120 --> 2:08:14.000 of time to just kind of be raw dogging the 2:08:14.080 --> 2:08:16.840 air out in the street. Any amount is going to 2:08:16.920 --> 2:08:19.040 damage your lungs, it's going to stiffen your arteries, it's 2:08:19.040 --> 2:08:21.200 going to increase your chances of a number of cancer's. 2:08:21.560 --> 2:08:24.960 Heart attack risk increases by a meaningful amount. When you 2:08:25.080 --> 2:08:27.600 are out dealing with stuff like this, your immune system 2:08:27.760 --> 2:08:29.160 is significantly weaker, and. 2:08:29.280 --> 2:08:30.920 You don't get to look cool like smoking. 2:08:31.480 --> 2:08:33.480 You don't get to look cool like smoking. Right, Like, 2:08:33.600 --> 2:08:36.879 it's all of the downsides of being a daily smoker 2:08:37.000 --> 2:08:40.720 with none of the significant benefits of looking rad as 2:08:40.800 --> 2:08:46.880 hell of looking like fucking Martin Sheen and apocalypse. Now, ah, man, 2:08:47.320 --> 2:08:49.600 I love a good smoker, but nobody looks good in 2:08:49.720 --> 2:08:52.000 this shit unless you're like, have one of those sick 2:08:52.080 --> 2:08:55.640 ass you know, apocalypse dusters and like a face mask, 2:08:55.720 --> 2:08:58.320 which we're about to talk about, then you can look cool, 2:08:58.480 --> 2:09:04.080 although you're clothing will probably always smell of wildfire. There's 2:09:04.120 --> 2:09:06.640 a lot also, it's kind of worth noting that, like, 2:09:07.120 --> 2:09:09.920 when we're talking about the dangers here, it's not it 2:09:10.040 --> 2:09:13.080 may smell like a little like campfire smoke, but you're 2:09:13.080 --> 2:09:16.840 also inhaling an incinerated asbestos and particle board and you know, 2:09:17.160 --> 2:09:20.960 presumably hordes of ammunition that had been buried by Canadian preppers. 2:09:21.000 --> 2:09:23.440 So like, there's a lot of reasons why you don't 2:09:23.440 --> 2:09:26.040 want to breathe this shit in. So when you go outside, 2:09:26.080 --> 2:09:28.240 you are going to want to wear a mask in 2:09:28.440 --> 2:09:32.120 ninety fives work reasonably well for adults if you have 2:09:32.240 --> 2:09:34.320 any on hand, or if you're fortunate enough to live 2:09:34.360 --> 2:09:37.000 in a city with the kind of emergency preparedness budget 2:09:37.080 --> 2:09:39.240 that allows them to provide stuff like that New York 2:09:39.320 --> 2:09:42.440 City is providing in ninety fives in some quantity right now. 2:09:43.440 --> 2:09:45.680 If you're out on your own, an N ninety five 2:09:45.760 --> 2:09:49.160 maybe an easy thing to acquire quickly for relatively cheap. 2:09:50.120 --> 2:09:52.760 That said, they're not perfect for one thing. They don't 2:09:52.760 --> 2:09:54.680 tend to work very well on kids. For this just 2:09:54.760 --> 2:09:57.680 because like the fit is off and wrong. You may 2:09:57.840 --> 2:10:00.640 find that something like a KF ninety four allows you 2:10:00.720 --> 2:10:03.160 to get a better fit on a child, And those 2:10:03.240 --> 2:10:06.120 do work reasonably well, certainly better than like nothing at 2:10:06.120 --> 2:10:10.600 all in this kind of a situation. My personal recommendation, 2:10:10.840 --> 2:10:13.160 if they are in stock and if you can afford them, 2:10:13.320 --> 2:10:16.400 is either a half or a full face respirator. We'll 2:10:16.400 --> 2:10:18.680 talk about the differences between those in a second, But 2:10:19.080 --> 2:10:20.880 these are the kind of masks that, like, if you're 2:10:20.880 --> 2:10:23.200 a contractor and you're like putting together a building, You're 2:10:23.200 --> 2:10:26.360 dealing with a shitload of insulation. You're like cutting certain 2:10:26.440 --> 2:10:28.480 kinds of metal or you know you're doing a whole 2:10:28.520 --> 2:10:31.040 bunch of different things that can kick up nasty particulate. 2:10:31.480 --> 2:10:34.000 You probably have a number of these, right like people 2:10:34.080 --> 2:10:36.560 I know in graffiti and graffiti. Yeah, if you're doing 2:10:36.600 --> 2:10:40.640 a lot of graffiti, you know, hang out near a building, 2:10:40.880 --> 2:10:42.840 you know that kids that kids spray paint a lot, 2:10:43.000 --> 2:10:44.880 and then you know, stick them up with a handgun 2:10:44.960 --> 2:10:47.960 for their their respirators. That's a responsible way to deal 2:10:48.040 --> 2:10:54.520 with Yeah, that's teach everyone smoke through the respirator. That 2:10:54.680 --> 2:11:02.000 makes it extra cool and healthy. So yeah, what we're 2:11:02.040 --> 2:11:04.200 talking about here, Like, if you're looking for a thing 2:11:04.240 --> 2:11:07.960 to type into Google or whatever, threem half mask respirator. 2:11:08.600 --> 2:11:11.160 I found a three half mask respirator kit with a 2:11:11.240 --> 2:11:14.680 couple of what are called Bayonet filters for forty six 2:11:14.800 --> 2:11:17.360 forty one on Granger dot com right now. You can 2:11:17.400 --> 2:11:19.880 get them for similar prices on Amazon dot com. If 2:11:19.920 --> 2:11:22.120 you walk into a Lows or a home depot and 2:11:22.240 --> 2:11:24.080 they have not there hasn't been a run on them, 2:11:24.320 --> 2:11:27.560 you can probably find these. You will want to make 2:11:27.600 --> 2:11:30.360 sure you get filters with them. Sometimes you get just 2:11:30.480 --> 2:11:33.000 the respirator and you have to buy the filters separately. Yeah, 2:11:33.080 --> 2:11:34.920 usually if you get one, it'll it'll come with them. 2:11:34.960 --> 2:11:37.280 But make sure the filters are going to be these. 2:11:37.680 --> 2:11:40.080 Most of them look kind of like triangles with like 2:11:40.280 --> 2:11:44.520 rounded edges that are sort of this like pinkish purple color. 2:11:44.600 --> 2:11:47.080 For the most part, there's some that are gray and 2:11:47.280 --> 2:11:50.920 like circular. It doesn't really matter you know which kind 2:11:50.960 --> 2:11:53.280 of filters yours get. I would say, just get whatever 2:11:53.400 --> 2:11:56.440 they have the most of Well, yeah, the in. 2:11:56.560 --> 2:11:59.120 General, the filters filter out a ton of different stuff, 2:11:59.440 --> 2:12:02.520 And the thing looking for is the particulate filteration, which 2:12:02.560 --> 2:12:04.800 is actually the easiest and that's why almost any filter 2:12:04.880 --> 2:12:08.880 will do this. The rawest doesn't do anything else. Filter 2:12:09.000 --> 2:12:10.920 that you would be looking for is a P one hundred, 2:12:11.520 --> 2:12:14.400 and sometimes those are they're more likely. I believe three 2:12:14.600 --> 2:12:16.880 M marks them as the pink. So if it's pink, 2:12:16.960 --> 2:12:18.280 it's particulate. 2:12:18.680 --> 2:12:19.360 With three M. 2:12:19.440 --> 2:12:22.480 There's other brands. There's Honeywell, and then there's yeah, I 2:12:22.520 --> 2:12:24.600 can't remember off the top of my head, but anyway, 2:12:24.640 --> 2:12:27.400 P one hundred is like you just look for particular filter, 2:12:27.520 --> 2:12:29.840 but honestly, yeah, pretty much anything is going to do it. 2:12:30.080 --> 2:12:32.800 Basically, any kind of respirator you're going to get it. 2:12:32.840 --> 2:12:35.120 Like a home depot with filters is going to be 2:12:35.240 --> 2:12:38.760 sufficient for this. There are kind of like the one 2:12:38.800 --> 2:12:42.440 and that. There's two main categories of respirators. The one 2:12:42.480 --> 2:12:45.840 we're interested in are called air purifying respirators. That means 2:12:45.920 --> 2:12:48.440 you breathe in the air from outside and it filters 2:12:48.480 --> 2:12:51.480 it right. The other kind of atmosphere supplying respirators, which 2:12:51.840 --> 2:12:54.600 normal people do not need in this situation. That's like, 2:12:55.440 --> 2:12:58.360 you know, it has like a tank of stuff walking around. 2:12:58.760 --> 2:13:01.160 Don't get that it's going to be a lot more 2:13:01.560 --> 2:13:04.800 than is necessary for at least the next like six 2:13:04.880 --> 2:13:09.800 to eight months. Respirators are then further divided into half 2:13:09.920 --> 2:13:13.040 face masks, which things like Batman from that the Worst 2:13:13.080 --> 2:13:15.280 of the Nolan Batman or not Batman. Think of Bane 2:13:15.360 --> 2:13:17.200 from the Worst of the Nolan Batman movies. It's a 2:13:17.240 --> 2:13:18.880 little bit like that right where it's kind of just 2:13:19.000 --> 2:13:23.080 over your mouth and jaw. And then there's full face masks, 2:13:23.400 --> 2:13:27.800 and there are also reusable elastomeric respirators. I tend to 2:13:27.840 --> 2:13:30.840 prefer half a full face masks for one thing. There's 2:13:30.880 --> 2:13:33.280 no reason to like you're not working in some sort 2:13:33.320 --> 2:13:35.760 of like capacity where you want to be tossing it 2:13:35.920 --> 2:13:37.880 every time, you know, you might as well just get one. 2:13:37.960 --> 2:13:41.480 You can plug new filters into. A half face mask 2:13:41.640 --> 2:13:43.600 is going to be a lot more convenient. It's a 2:13:43.680 --> 2:13:46.480 lot less sort of weight and stuff, but it doesn't 2:13:46.520 --> 2:13:49.240 protect your eyes or anything, which if you're dealing with 2:13:49.360 --> 2:13:52.080 really heavy particulate, you may find your eyes getting irritated 2:13:52.160 --> 2:13:54.840 out there. The benefit of a full face mask is 2:13:54.880 --> 2:13:57.800 that it does protect your eyes and if you happen 2:13:57.840 --> 2:13:59.920 to ever be in a situation where there's hella, mace 2:14:00.160 --> 2:14:04.040 or tear gas being used, it provides excellent protection from 2:14:04.080 --> 2:14:07.120 that kind of thing. The downside is that these are 2:14:07.240 --> 2:14:11.000 three to four times as expensive as the half faced respirator, 2:14:11.080 --> 2:14:13.880 so they're not my general recommendation to people. But again, 2:14:13.960 --> 2:14:15.880 either of them is going to be perfectly adequate for 2:14:16.000 --> 2:14:16.920 wildfire smoke. 2:14:17.000 --> 2:14:19.280 And then the full face ones of the additional problem 2:14:19.360 --> 2:14:22.520 of most of them are not designed for wearing glasses, yes, 2:14:22.840 --> 2:14:25.360 and you need a full seal on the side of it, 2:14:25.440 --> 2:14:27.840 so don't just throw it over your glasses. But they 2:14:27.920 --> 2:14:31.440 make adapters or you can wear contacts if you're not 2:14:31.560 --> 2:14:33.640 actually out expecting. 2:14:33.640 --> 2:14:36.360 Chemical weapons, and I would do that sometimes when we 2:14:36.440 --> 2:14:40.080 were dealing specific particularly with like mace, heavy fights as contacts, 2:14:40.120 --> 2:14:43.560 and a full face. It always worked for me. People 2:14:43.560 --> 2:14:45.640 will say that if you have a beard, it can 2:14:45.720 --> 2:14:48.000 fuck with the seal. I think I'm sure that's true 2:14:48.040 --> 2:14:50.880 with like really heavy beards. I keep mine reasonably trim, 2:14:51.040 --> 2:14:53.000 and I never noticed a problem, you know, even in 2:14:53.120 --> 2:14:55.360 very thick tear gas with either my full face or 2:14:55.400 --> 2:14:56.320 with my gas mask. 2:14:57.280 --> 2:14:58.760 So you know, this is why beards fell out of 2:14:59.040 --> 2:15:00.560 favor in the United st Dates. 2:15:00.840 --> 2:15:03.160 Oh, because of a World War One and gas masks. 2:15:03.720 --> 2:15:06.920 Military people had to start shaving because otherwise you'll die. 2:15:07.120 --> 2:15:09.480 Because that's the difference, right, You're like, oh, a little 2:15:09.480 --> 2:15:11.520 bit of smoke is getting in, that sucks. A little 2:15:11.560 --> 2:15:12.720 bit of murder gas gets in. 2:15:13.000 --> 2:15:16.760 Yeah, that's you have a more severe problem. Yeah, So 2:15:16.960 --> 2:15:18.880 a lot of folks may be and I've seen questions 2:15:18.880 --> 2:15:21.720 about like getting a gas mask, right, And obviously, if 2:15:21.760 --> 2:15:24.280 that's what's available to you, if you already happen to 2:15:24.320 --> 2:15:26.400 have one because you're a weirdo prepper, or if that's 2:15:26.480 --> 2:15:29.600 just what you can find, a gas mask will indeed 2:15:29.760 --> 2:15:33.520 protect you from particulate. You may if you are someone 2:15:33.560 --> 2:15:35.880 who has the benefit of money decide I'm going to 2:15:35.960 --> 2:15:38.240 just go ahead and get a good gas mask if so, 2:15:38.840 --> 2:15:40.640 you know, there's a number of places you can look 2:15:40.680 --> 2:15:42.200 to for that. The one I have is called a 2:15:42.280 --> 2:15:46.160 mira Ir. They're three four hundred dollars something like that. 2:15:46.840 --> 2:15:49.480 I can confirm that they work great when you're drenched 2:15:49.520 --> 2:15:52.200 in tear gas so heavy that you can't see through it. 2:15:52.600 --> 2:15:55.680 People bitch at them online in like weirdo prepper communities 2:15:55.720 --> 2:15:59.160 sometimes because they have some like silly attachments and stuff 2:15:59.200 --> 2:16:01.360 that are kind of too expensive. But like I have 2:16:01.520 --> 2:16:06.600 used every kind of face mask filtering product in heavy 2:16:06.680 --> 2:16:09.960 gas and mace mirrors are comfortable, they do work well. 2:16:10.080 --> 2:16:13.320 That said, much more expensive and much heavier than you 2:16:13.480 --> 2:16:16.440 need for something like filtering particulate. This would not be 2:16:16.600 --> 2:16:20.160 my first go to for anybody. Any kind of gas 2:16:20.280 --> 2:16:23.040 mask you get is going to be very bulky. Even 2:16:23.080 --> 2:16:27.440 the ones that are made specifically for stuff like special 2:16:27.520 --> 2:16:30.040 forces use where they're like really streamlines so that you 2:16:30.120 --> 2:16:32.640 can like shoulder a rifle with them, those are still 2:16:32.720 --> 2:16:36.000 much bulkier than you know a normal half faced respirator 2:16:36.120 --> 2:16:39.280 is going to be. They also, you know, one of 2:16:39.320 --> 2:16:41.560 the benefits. One thing I will say I did a 2:16:41.640 --> 2:16:43.640 few times when Portland was bad, as I would put 2:16:43.680 --> 2:16:46.760 on too filters in my gas mask, which allows you 2:16:46.840 --> 2:16:48.840 to kind of breathe it close to the normal rate 2:16:48.920 --> 2:16:52.480 that you can, and I would go jogging because like otherwise, 2:16:52.520 --> 2:16:54.680 you really can't safely. I'm not saying you should do this, 2:16:54.879 --> 2:16:59.200 Please don't like avoid outdoor exercise as a general rule. Anyway, 2:16:59.360 --> 2:17:02.440 Military surplus gas masks, if that's what you have, again, 2:17:02.560 --> 2:17:06.120 and you have filters for them that can help. If 2:17:06.200 --> 2:17:08.520 you do attempt to do this, you will immediately gain 2:17:08.560 --> 2:17:12.160 an understanding of why chemical warfare suck so much, because most, 2:17:12.400 --> 2:17:17.720 especially MILLSERP gas masks suck ass to wear super uncomfortable, 2:17:17.840 --> 2:17:23.480 super shitty visibility. Not ever my primary recommendation, but again, 2:17:23.520 --> 2:17:25.480 if that's what you've got and all you can get, 2:17:25.959 --> 2:17:28.920 it will indeed filter out particulate. 2:17:28.920 --> 2:17:33.360 And an expired filter, a military style filter. It's usually 2:17:33.400 --> 2:17:37.840 the NATO standard. Yeah yeah, yeah, they an expired one. 2:17:37.959 --> 2:17:40.400 It's like I'm not recommending people use expired ones. Yeah, 2:17:40.440 --> 2:17:44.280 but they're if you're not defending yourself against like murder gas, yeah, 2:17:44.320 --> 2:17:45.480 an expired one should do you. 2:17:45.760 --> 2:17:45.960 Yeah. 2:17:46.000 --> 2:17:46.240 We are. 2:17:46.320 --> 2:17:49.160 Again, when we come to stuff like this, as long 2:17:49.160 --> 2:17:51.120 as you have some sort of filter and a military 2:17:51.200 --> 2:17:54.720 gas mask, it's probably going to be certainly better than nothing. Yeah, 2:17:54.760 --> 2:17:56.680 because we are just kind of dealing with smoke in 2:17:56.760 --> 2:17:59.880 particulate here. We're not dealing with like mustard gas or 2:18:00.440 --> 2:18:05.560 sarahen or whatever. Yet I'm bringing up gas masks just 2:18:05.600 --> 2:18:07.520 because it's what a lot of people might already have 2:18:07.680 --> 2:18:11.480 on hand or something, as opposed to recommending that as 2:18:11.560 --> 2:18:13.680 what you get you you should just get a respirator. 2:18:13.840 --> 2:18:16.480 That's going to be a lot more effective for basically 2:18:16.520 --> 2:18:19.680 one hundred percent of people. Now, you will probably notice, 2:18:19.760 --> 2:18:21.520 if you've been paying attention to what we've been talking 2:18:21.560 --> 2:18:25.439 about today, that all of the effective measures for mitigating 2:18:25.520 --> 2:18:28.640 the danger of smoke cost money, nearly all of them 2:18:28.680 --> 2:18:31.360 at least, and also rely on having stuff like access 2:18:31.400 --> 2:18:33.920 to transit that can get you to a store, on 2:18:34.200 --> 2:18:37.080 you know, having an address that packages can be delivered to. 2:18:37.800 --> 2:18:39.920 Because once again, as we talked about with you know, 2:18:40.040 --> 2:18:42.240 places like India that have been dealing with smog like 2:18:42.320 --> 2:18:46.199 this for many, many years, the costs of climate collapse 2:18:46.240 --> 2:18:48.560 are always heaviest on those who can least bear them, 2:18:49.200 --> 2:18:52.280 assuming you are housed. There are some other decent tips 2:18:52.360 --> 2:18:54.520 that can allow you to protect your house. One of 2:18:54.560 --> 2:18:57.600 them is that you probably want to create a clean 2:18:57.680 --> 2:19:01.720 room for your animals. Your cats, your dogs number one, 2:19:01.920 --> 2:19:05.080 are less capable of understanding what's happened happening, and they 2:19:05.800 --> 2:19:08.640 will notice something is wrong. You know, they will not 2:19:09.080 --> 2:19:11.720 go outside and feel like it's a normal day just 2:19:11.800 --> 2:19:16.359 because they're stupid dog or whatever. Like, they will recognize 2:19:16.400 --> 2:19:19.080 that something is gravely wrong. You want to keep them 2:19:19.120 --> 2:19:21.760 inside as much as possible because it's even they're smaller 2:19:21.800 --> 2:19:23.680 than you, right, it's even worse for them. The same 2:19:23.720 --> 2:19:25.360 thing with think like you want to keep your kids 2:19:25.480 --> 2:19:28.000 inside because the kind of shit that like maybe a 2:19:28.040 --> 2:19:30.560 two hundred pound adult can sort of shrug off in 2:19:30.680 --> 2:19:33.200 terms of particulate will hit a sixty five pound child 2:19:33.320 --> 2:19:36.360 or a forty five pound dog a lot worse. So 2:19:36.600 --> 2:19:38.440 a good thing to do is to create a clean room, 2:19:38.879 --> 2:19:41.800 potentially with the kind of filters, the Corsey Rosenthal filters 2:19:41.840 --> 2:19:45.600 that we talked about, if you have the ability doing 2:19:45.720 --> 2:19:48.600 something like you would do kind of for a mudroom, 2:19:48.600 --> 2:19:50.840 a little kind of airlock situation when you take your 2:19:50.879 --> 2:19:54.000 pets in and out from doing their business, so you 2:19:54.080 --> 2:19:56.560 can minimize the amount of shit that gets in. There's 2:19:56.600 --> 2:19:58.400 a few ways to do this, you know, when there's 2:19:58.480 --> 2:20:02.880 not currently hell s everywhere. Making sure that the seals 2:20:02.959 --> 2:20:05.720 and stuff on your windows and doors are of quality 2:20:05.879 --> 2:20:10.480 and up to date and recently replaced is key. Obviously 2:20:10.560 --> 2:20:13.320 if you're under smog right now, that's less of a 2:20:13.400 --> 2:20:15.320 realistic thing that you can do. But one thing you 2:20:15.400 --> 2:20:18.320 can do people, did you know in Portland during this 2:20:18.480 --> 2:20:22.440 if you get like towels and soak them and put 2:20:22.480 --> 2:20:24.400 them around the edges. If you know you've got oh 2:20:24.440 --> 2:20:26.960 I know this windows, Yeah, I know stuff's getting in. 2:20:27.320 --> 2:20:29.480 If you kind of can tape that up around and 2:20:29.640 --> 2:20:33.480 keep it wet around the window, that will take some 2:20:33.680 --> 2:20:36.760 of the basically particulate. It'll get kind of soaked into 2:20:36.879 --> 2:20:39.840 the towel and it should minimize kind of what you're 2:20:40.160 --> 2:20:43.440 dealing with in the house. I haven't seen, actually, this 2:20:43.560 --> 2:20:45.840 is one of the things I haven't seen like studies 2:20:45.959 --> 2:20:48.440 on how well this works. But it's what most of 2:20:48.520 --> 2:20:50.640 the people I knew who had kind of older houses 2:20:50.760 --> 2:20:53.920 did and do during wildfires, and it seems to have 2:20:54.000 --> 2:20:57.760 an impact. So I would recommend kind of trying that. 2:20:58.000 --> 2:20:59.560 And if you can get to the store you get 2:20:59.600 --> 2:21:02.080 like phone strips and stuff like that. If you don't 2:21:02.120 --> 2:21:04.120 have much money, you can do the whole everything's a 2:21:04.160 --> 2:21:06.720 free store for the brave. Yeah, but it's not very 2:21:06.720 --> 2:21:08.520 expensive anyway. They're like foam tape. 2:21:09.000 --> 2:21:11.480 Yeah, and that would be again, much better than trying 2:21:11.600 --> 2:21:14.440 to do the wet towel thing that said. One thing 2:21:14.480 --> 2:21:17.200 you should be doing every day is wiping off large 2:21:17.280 --> 2:21:20.000 surfaces in your house with a damp cloth to clean 2:21:20.040 --> 2:21:23.640 away the particulate that's settled during the day. That's going 2:21:23.720 --> 2:21:26.000 to reduce the strain on whatever kind of filters you've 2:21:26.000 --> 2:21:29.880 got going indoors. You're going to want to very quickly 2:21:31.400 --> 2:21:35.920 change your air filter, unless you like, if you change 2:21:35.959 --> 2:21:38.120 your filter a week or two before this hit, you 2:21:38.200 --> 2:21:40.160 know it'll be fine for a little while. But if, 2:21:40.320 --> 2:21:42.160 like most people, you kind of let that go a 2:21:42.240 --> 2:21:44.680 little long, probably one of the first things you should 2:21:44.680 --> 2:21:47.120 do is slot in a fresh air filter if you've 2:21:47.200 --> 2:21:50.320 got one. If you are shopping for an air filter 2:21:50.440 --> 2:21:52.600 and you want something that is going to work better 2:21:52.720 --> 2:21:56.120 in your HVAC system on particulate, you want something with 2:21:56.240 --> 2:22:00.520 a high minimum efficiency reporting value or MERV, which Margaret 2:22:01.480 --> 2:22:03.960 mentioned a little earlier. Value. Those are going to catch 2:22:04.000 --> 2:22:07.760 more particles than normal filters. You're going to want to 2:22:07.879 --> 2:22:11.959 switch your HVAC into fan only mode immediately. This will 2:22:12.000 --> 2:22:14.840 insist ensure that it runs your indoor air through the 2:22:14.920 --> 2:22:19.440 filter rather than pulling air in from the outside. Yeah, 2:22:19.560 --> 2:22:21.320 that is a key thing to do. If you've got 2:22:21.400 --> 2:22:23.959 kind of a central system, you're also going to want 2:22:23.959 --> 2:22:26.840 to turn off anything that pulls in air from the outside, like, 2:22:27.320 --> 2:22:30.080 for example, the portable air conditioner units with like hoses 2:22:30.120 --> 2:22:31.960 that go at your window, which is the things that 2:22:32.160 --> 2:22:34.760 like everyone in the East Coast tends to have as 2:22:34.800 --> 2:22:37.440 opposed to a central system. So if you've got one 2:22:37.480 --> 2:22:41.440 of those, some window acs will have what's called an 2:22:41.480 --> 2:22:45.680 outdoor air damper that you can close. If they don't 2:22:45.760 --> 2:22:48.400 have that, you're gonna want to keep it off and sealed, 2:22:48.680 --> 2:22:51.320 and you're going to want to in any case use 2:22:51.400 --> 2:22:53.959 tape or whatever you have to ensure that the seal 2:22:54.040 --> 2:22:56.600 around the unit is more robust. I know, people generally, 2:22:57.080 --> 2:23:00.720 you know, can be a little bit lax days about 2:23:00.760 --> 2:23:03.000 the actual like window seal with a unit like that 2:23:03.320 --> 2:23:05.040 is generally not perfect. You're going to want to be 2:23:05.120 --> 2:23:08.920 extra careful because even a small gap, you know, that 2:23:09.120 --> 2:23:11.040 that allows shit in is going to allow quite a 2:23:11.080 --> 2:23:15.600 lot of particulate and like a surprising amount. Again, a 2:23:15.680 --> 2:23:17.600 lot of some of these methods are just like stuff 2:23:17.640 --> 2:23:19.600 that you should be doing to prep your house, but 2:23:19.640 --> 2:23:24.000 a lot of them do require resources, which is, you know, 2:23:24.480 --> 2:23:28.760 frustrating for a lot of reasons. I'm sure hope I'm 2:23:28.840 --> 2:23:31.640 hoping Margaret that like what you found online is accurate 2:23:31.720 --> 2:23:34.920 people's experience and that stores have not sold out of 2:23:35.400 --> 2:23:39.360 the things that are useful in this situation. That is 2:23:39.440 --> 2:23:41.879 one of those things kind of when we talk more 2:23:41.920 --> 2:23:46.840 broadly about preparation for stuff like this, that people should 2:23:46.840 --> 2:23:50.040 be thinking about, like, don't just think about what stuff 2:23:50.040 --> 2:23:52.080 has gone wrong in the past. That's a great way 2:23:52.120 --> 2:23:55.119 to have plenty of toilet paper when there's a shortage 2:23:55.160 --> 2:23:59.280 of water or whatever. Right likewise, it's one of those 2:23:59.320 --> 2:24:01.400 things where, you know, if you were in when I 2:24:02.040 --> 2:24:04.240 made a couple of posts about what was happening in 2:24:04.320 --> 2:24:08.360 New York earlier, and somebody responded, and I was making 2:24:08.400 --> 2:24:09.800 the joke that like, hey, if you get a full 2:24:09.800 --> 2:24:12.200 face respirator, it'll be useful, you know, if you've got 2:24:12.240 --> 2:24:14.560 to fight the cops too, And their comment was like well, 2:24:14.560 --> 2:24:17.240 we don't really get tear gassed here. And first off, 2:24:17.320 --> 2:24:19.119 I mean that may be true, but like you guys 2:24:19.160 --> 2:24:21.280 do get maced, and they're great against mace. I can 2:24:21.360 --> 2:24:25.560 say that from a intense personal experience. But the other 2:24:25.640 --> 2:24:27.760 thing is that, like, well, that's part of when we 2:24:27.840 --> 2:24:31.119 talk about kind of proactive practical prepping. A big part 2:24:31.160 --> 2:24:35.840 of it is thinking about stuff that like maybe unlikely, 2:24:36.080 --> 2:24:38.960 but it's not impossible, and that if you don't have 2:24:39.320 --> 2:24:41.200 shit on hand, you're not going to be able to 2:24:41.280 --> 2:24:41.920 deal with, right. 2:24:42.000 --> 2:24:42.160 Yeah. 2:24:42.320 --> 2:24:45.039 And one of those things is having a fucking respirator. Basically, 2:24:45.200 --> 2:24:47.880 everybody who is capable of affording them should have a 2:24:47.920 --> 2:24:50.120 half or a full faced respirator. You should get that, 2:24:50.280 --> 2:24:53.040 you should get a couple of spare filters, and you 2:24:53.080 --> 2:24:54.720 should just have it, even if you're in a place 2:24:54.720 --> 2:24:57.120 where wildfire smoke has never been a problem for you, 2:24:57.240 --> 2:25:01.120 because it will be at some point. That's just basically guaranteed. 2:25:01.280 --> 2:25:05.440 Yeah, And I want to say for dogs, I don't 2:25:05.480 --> 2:25:07.920 know about cats, but they make masks for dogs, they 2:25:08.000 --> 2:25:11.720 make respirators for dogs. The brand that I've gotten that 2:25:11.800 --> 2:25:14.640 I can't specifically I haven't compared to other brands is 2:25:14.680 --> 2:25:18.120 called canine mask. And then I know people who have 2:25:18.320 --> 2:25:22.880 made their own dog respirators basically out of and ninety 2:25:22.920 --> 2:25:27.600 fives and tape and stuff. And then if your dog, 2:25:28.040 --> 2:25:29.600 if you're really on top of it, you're going to 2:25:29.760 --> 2:25:32.720 do the work to acclimate your dog to this, right, Yeah, reward, 2:25:33.440 --> 2:25:36.440 reward your dog greatly and slowly build up their tolerance. 2:25:36.720 --> 2:25:38.040 And if you don't have time for that, you can 2:25:38.080 --> 2:25:39.959 put a cone on your dog to keep your dog 2:25:40.040 --> 2:25:42.560 to keep the mask on. And obviously you don't want to, 2:25:42.680 --> 2:25:45.240 like I mean, mostly just want to keep your dog inside, right, 2:25:45.320 --> 2:25:50.360 but yeah, if your dogs, yeah, exactly. There's actually an 2:25:50.440 --> 2:25:53.320 argument for pad training my dog that I I've never 2:25:53.400 --> 2:25:53.920 bothered to do. 2:25:54.120 --> 2:25:56.040 And that may be by the way, when we're talking 2:25:56.040 --> 2:25:58.080 about like what stuff should you keep on hand, Well, 2:25:58.200 --> 2:26:01.040 if you're not a normal pad training person, yeah, that 2:26:01.600 --> 2:26:04.560 could be a useful prepping thing to have to have 2:26:04.720 --> 2:26:07.400 pads on hand and to occasionally use them so the 2:26:07.440 --> 2:26:10.640 animal understands that that's an option, because they are a 2:26:10.760 --> 2:26:13.360 variety of things that might make it not feasible to 2:26:13.440 --> 2:26:15.680 take them outdoors, you know, if you don't have a 2:26:15.800 --> 2:26:18.200 yard especially, So yeah, but. 2:26:18.280 --> 2:26:21.400 Also say, even though it's better to look at what's 2:26:21.520 --> 2:26:23.840 next instead of what's current, right, Like, look at the 2:26:23.920 --> 2:26:26.760 next problem instead of the current problem. It's also okay, 2:26:26.840 --> 2:26:30.400 And what most people do realistically is prep for the 2:26:30.480 --> 2:26:32.800 thing that went bad last time. Yeah, you know, like 2:26:33.240 --> 2:26:35.760 I have an emergency blanket on me at almost all times, 2:26:35.800 --> 2:26:38.160 in my emergency kit because when I was like thirteen, 2:26:38.280 --> 2:26:40.680 it saved my life or whatever. Right, yeah, I've never 2:26:40.800 --> 2:26:43.720 needed one ever again, but I didn't forget that I 2:26:43.800 --> 2:26:46.080 needed one and someone else had one. I will just 2:26:46.400 --> 2:26:49.200 have one, right And you know, so if this is 2:26:49.360 --> 2:26:51.480 you're suddenly I need an air purer of fire. It 2:26:51.640 --> 2:26:53.720 maybe is too late, it may not be too late. 2:26:54.680 --> 2:26:56.920 It don't beat yourself up if this is when you 2:26:57.040 --> 2:26:59.800 decide that you're going to start having one, you know. 2:27:00.560 --> 2:27:05.560 Yeah, like it's for one thing. There's this, there's this. 2:27:05.680 --> 2:27:08.520 If you like study military history, you run into this too, 2:27:08.720 --> 2:27:12.080 like the problem that military planners are always fighting the 2:27:12.200 --> 2:27:14.520 last war right when they're when they're preparing for shit, 2:27:14.560 --> 2:27:16.480 which is why a lot of like stupid and useless 2:27:16.600 --> 2:27:19.760 craft is on hand every time we enter a new conflict. 2:27:20.640 --> 2:27:23.320 But everything actually really does work that way, because that's 2:27:23.360 --> 2:27:26.360 just the way people be and so like, I'm sure 2:27:26.480 --> 2:27:29.040 basically everyone in New York had extra toilet paper on 2:27:29.120 --> 2:27:31.240 hand just shit hit, but they weren't ready for you know, 2:27:31.680 --> 2:27:34.880 which is you know that's not New Yorkers, you so stupid. No, 2:27:34.959 --> 2:27:37.320 that's everybody. That's how that's how we all are. The 2:27:37.360 --> 2:27:39.800 only reason Portland was more prepared for this when it 2:27:39.879 --> 2:27:42.640 hit us is that we'd been getting like a significant 2:27:42.680 --> 2:27:44.480 portion of the city had been going out and getting 2:27:44.640 --> 2:27:45.560 tear gassed every night. 2:27:45.640 --> 2:27:48.040 Yeah, but it is. 2:27:48.200 --> 2:27:50.080 It does kind of mean that, like part of prepping 2:27:50.600 --> 2:27:54.119 is like sitting around and like bullshitting with your friends. 2:27:54.240 --> 2:27:56.320 If you want to like be all cool and and 2:27:56.920 --> 2:27:59.160 military larpie about it, you can. You can put on 2:27:59.280 --> 2:28:01.320 gear and you can sit around a war table with 2:28:01.440 --> 2:28:03.920 the map and game plan out stuff. You can make 2:28:03.959 --> 2:28:07.440 it fun, ye Like, there's no reason not to treat 2:28:07.480 --> 2:28:09.360 it like a you know, a session of D and D. 2:28:09.560 --> 2:28:12.840 Walk through different kinds of problems that you guys think 2:28:12.879 --> 2:28:15.200 are more likely and try to lay out kind of 2:28:15.280 --> 2:28:18.160 consequence trees as to like what might happen and what 2:28:18.280 --> 2:28:20.920 might be necessary, and then you know, think about what 2:28:21.040 --> 2:28:23.520 kind of equipment would be useful in those situations and 2:28:24.240 --> 2:28:26.840 put it in a kind of teer it in a 2:28:26.920 --> 2:28:30.560 list of like what is more affordable, what is more likely, 2:28:30.760 --> 2:28:33.200 and you know, kind of trioge with that, and what's 2:28:33.320 --> 2:28:36.360 small too, Yeah, what's small? Like what's easy to have 2:28:36.520 --> 2:28:38.440 on hand? I'm going to go get eye drops. 2:28:38.520 --> 2:28:38.640 Now. 2:28:38.840 --> 2:28:41.640 I don't keep eye drops around normally, But as I'm 2:28:41.720 --> 2:28:43.480 like looking at this stuff and I'm talking to people 2:28:43.480 --> 2:28:45.800 who deal with smoke, They're like, well, the half mask 2:28:45.879 --> 2:28:47.400 rustpbraider is great, but if you don't have a full 2:28:47.440 --> 2:28:49.840 mask rust braider, bring eye drops, yeah, you know. And 2:28:49.879 --> 2:28:52.600 I'm like, oh, that's not something I ever considered. That's 2:28:52.800 --> 2:28:55.080 cheap and takes up no room in my truck. 2:28:55.400 --> 2:28:57.160 Yeah, you can have that in your go bag. You 2:28:57.240 --> 2:28:58.200 can have that in your car. 2:28:58.440 --> 2:28:59.120 Yeah, you know. 2:28:59.320 --> 2:29:04.240 I always heap a set of bone knives and nitrial 2:29:04.360 --> 2:29:07.800 gloves and a tarp in my car because I like 2:29:07.879 --> 2:29:11.840 to process roadkill. But there's other disasters that's potentially useful, 2:29:12.600 --> 2:29:14.840 you know, much like your pig farm. But much like 2:29:14.920 --> 2:29:15.600 my pig farm. 2:29:15.680 --> 2:29:15.880 Yeah. 2:29:16.360 --> 2:29:21.920 So, and it's just kind of like like this, this 2:29:22.200 --> 2:29:24.320 this shit's going to keep happening. Something else will probably 2:29:24.360 --> 2:29:26.760 happen this year that's like a chunk of the country 2:29:27.000 --> 2:29:30.680 dealing with some sort of terrible disaster that affects everybody 2:29:30.720 --> 2:29:33.480 at once that people in that area at least haven't 2:29:33.520 --> 2:29:36.680 dealt with before, like it, because that's the world that 2:29:36.720 --> 2:29:40.680 we're living in now, and so you're never going to 2:29:40.720 --> 2:29:44.000 be perfect at thinking through stuff. But like, the more 2:29:44.080 --> 2:29:46.320 time you spend kind of trying to make your brain 2:29:46.480 --> 2:29:49.920 elastic when it comes to disaster, the more likely you 2:29:50.040 --> 2:29:51.880 are to have at least some of the things that 2:29:52.000 --> 2:29:55.800 you need to deal with problems when they occur. Especially 2:29:55.879 --> 2:29:58.520 since a lot of tools are like multi use tools 2:29:58.600 --> 2:30:04.520 you know, are great with wildfire smoke. They're also you know, 2:30:04.720 --> 2:30:08.520 potentially useful if like, for example, a pandemic where to hit. 2:30:08.520 --> 2:30:10.440 Right, wouldn't it be awful if that all this happened 2:30:10.520 --> 2:30:12.080 during a respiratory pandemic. 2:30:11.720 --> 2:30:12.560 That would be fucked. 2:30:12.760 --> 2:30:12.960 Yeah. 2:30:14.200 --> 2:30:16.680 Yeah, And I think that if you do prepping right, 2:30:17.080 --> 2:30:19.400 it can actually reduce anxiety instead of increase it. A 2:30:19.440 --> 2:30:21.760 lot of people avoid prepping because they're afraid to engage 2:30:21.760 --> 2:30:24.320 with these problems because if they if they think, if 2:30:24.360 --> 2:30:27.280 they look at the it's the prey animal thing. I 2:30:27.320 --> 2:30:29.000 don't know if this is real or not. But you 2:30:29.120 --> 2:30:31.119 think if you don't look at the predator, it won't 2:30:31.160 --> 2:30:31.520 notice you. 2:30:31.640 --> 2:30:32.320 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 2:30:32.440 --> 2:30:34.280 And I think that people do that because they don't 2:30:34.320 --> 2:30:36.520 want to think about these things, and that is understandable. 2:30:36.520 --> 2:30:39.600 We live in a very high anxiety time, right, But 2:30:40.400 --> 2:30:43.480 I think that looking at these problems has overall reduced 2:30:43.520 --> 2:30:46.120 my anxiety around them because like, for example, when I 2:30:46.240 --> 2:30:48.520 lived in more in the woods than I currently do, 2:30:48.560 --> 2:30:50.040 and I live in a cabin in the woods, and 2:30:50.120 --> 2:30:51.240 I was like, what will I do if there's a 2:30:51.240 --> 2:30:53.920 forest fire? And I thought it through and most of 2:30:53.959 --> 2:30:56.840 the answer was keep my car, you know, gassed and 2:30:57.080 --> 2:30:59.720 ready to go and have my go bag. And then 2:30:59.760 --> 2:31:02.000 I was like, that's it. That's the only preparation I'm 2:31:02.040 --> 2:31:04.480 gonna do for this fire that may or may not happen. 2:31:04.840 --> 2:31:07.320 And so then I stopped worrying about it because I've 2:31:07.400 --> 2:31:10.080 done everything that I'm going to do. There's like a 2:31:10.200 --> 2:31:12.640 next level thing, like actually these particular fires. I was 2:31:12.680 --> 2:31:15.160 looking it up. I think one hundred thousand people have 2:31:15.280 --> 2:31:17.320 been displaced from their homes in Canada as a result 2:31:17.360 --> 2:31:17.520 of this. 2:31:17.959 --> 2:31:18.880 Jeez it is. 2:31:19.440 --> 2:31:23.200 We are currently at one four hundred percent of the 2:31:23.280 --> 2:31:25.840 fires that are normal for this time of the year. 2:31:26.040 --> 2:31:27.840 Yeah, and we're not even in summer yet. 2:31:28.080 --> 2:31:32.000 Yeah, they've eight point seven million acres have burned so 2:31:32.080 --> 2:31:34.680 far this year. Six point two million per year is normal, 2:31:34.959 --> 2:31:39.480 like total, and we're not at summer yet, and so 2:31:40.400 --> 2:31:44.720 shit's gonna get worse, but it's not. But we can 2:31:45.480 --> 2:31:47.720 we can handle it. And we can like look at 2:31:47.760 --> 2:31:49.880 these things, and we can look at the predator and 2:31:50.959 --> 2:31:53.640 well we can't it's invisible because of the yeah, little 2:31:53.760 --> 2:31:55.039 invisibility field. 2:31:54.959 --> 2:31:55.680 But we can, we can. 2:31:55.760 --> 2:31:57.720 I mean there are some predators that we can look at, 2:31:57.800 --> 2:31:59.440 which is where I should say that, Like there's a 2:31:59.480 --> 2:32:02.560 pretty good move about pipelines that came out recently. Oh yeah, 2:32:03.080 --> 2:32:05.640 but uh yeah, no, I mean you you have like 2:32:06.000 --> 2:32:09.920 looking at in the face is necessary and also finding 2:32:10.000 --> 2:32:11.600 this is part of why I brought up the first 2:32:11.640 --> 2:32:14.160 thing I brought up was those those Coarsey Rosenthal filters 2:32:14.240 --> 2:32:17.240 because like having a thing to do when like you 2:32:17.360 --> 2:32:20.200 wake up in the morning and it's orange. Yeah, Like 2:32:21.000 --> 2:32:23.720 it's a nice way to allay the doom feeling, Like 2:32:23.920 --> 2:32:28.200 give yourself a task. It increases agency and when you 2:32:28.320 --> 2:32:31.640 once you build that thing, you know either you'll use 2:32:31.680 --> 2:32:34.040 it all up right away because those filters don't last forever, 2:32:34.480 --> 2:32:38.280 or you'll have something on hand the next time this occurs. Yeah, 2:32:39.200 --> 2:32:41.880 so yeah, I don't know. That's what I got, Margaret, 2:32:41.879 --> 2:32:42.920 You got anything else to get into? 2:32:43.720 --> 2:32:43.840 Uh? 2:32:44.680 --> 2:32:46.800 I want to say that if you're in a fire area, 2:32:47.680 --> 2:32:49.000 you should have your plan of escape. 2:32:49.040 --> 2:32:50.000 You should have your go bag. 2:32:50.600 --> 2:32:52.880 If a fire is like particularly likely, you're going to 2:32:52.959 --> 2:32:54.680 keep that go bag in your vehicle and keep it 2:32:54.720 --> 2:32:59.200 pointed outwards. You want to clear the area around your house, 2:32:59.240 --> 2:33:01.360 if that's something that you choose to do. Obviously, if 2:33:01.400 --> 2:33:02.720 you're like, no, the whole points I live in a 2:33:02.760 --> 2:33:06.080 cabin with trees over it or whatever, right, Yeah, And 2:33:06.720 --> 2:33:08.680 there's more that you can do to look at making 2:33:08.720 --> 2:33:10.520 sure that like a lot of the fires are about 2:33:10.600 --> 2:33:12.800 sparks getting sucked in through vents, and there's ways to 2:33:12.879 --> 2:33:16.960 close it up. And I also want to say this 2:33:17.080 --> 2:33:19.640 is a really good time to take care of each 2:33:19.720 --> 2:33:23.200 other in particular, look out for asthmatic friends, or if 2:33:23.200 --> 2:33:26.760 you're the asthmatic friend, get other people to help take 2:33:26.800 --> 2:33:29.920 care of you. Go get groceries for your asthmatic friends 2:33:30.000 --> 2:33:32.400 during a smoke emergency, because you're gonna be able to 2:33:32.440 --> 2:33:34.640 handle it a lot better than some other people might. 2:33:35.360 --> 2:33:37.160 Yeah, if you're heading down to the store to go 2:33:37.320 --> 2:33:39.960 get filters in a box fan or something, check in 2:33:40.040 --> 2:33:41.880 with your neighbors and see how they're doing and what 2:33:41.959 --> 2:33:45.040 they're capable of handling for themselves and stuff. You know, 2:33:45.720 --> 2:33:50.000 hopefully this won't be bad for everyone for too long, 2:33:50.400 --> 2:33:53.680 you know, as we always say. But like, look, guys, 2:33:53.760 --> 2:33:55.880 this isn't going to be the last time in New York. 2:33:56.480 --> 2:33:59.800 Is the color of Mexico in a breaking bad right, 2:34:00.200 --> 2:34:04.040 Like it's this is going to happen again, because the 2:34:04.120 --> 2:34:06.520 fires aren't going to stop until there's no more forest 2:34:06.640 --> 2:34:09.240 left than they all have more gloriously clean air. 2:34:09.320 --> 2:34:09.959 Yeah, totally. 2:34:10.280 --> 2:34:10.480 Yeah. 2:34:10.640 --> 2:34:12.240 Well, and then the final thing I want to say 2:34:12.280 --> 2:34:14.280 is that like a lot of the stuff, right, like 2:34:14.400 --> 2:34:16.800 walking around in a half mask respirator is a little 2:34:16.800 --> 2:34:18.480 bit less weird to people than walking around in a 2:34:18.520 --> 2:34:20.520 full face respirator is a little bit less weird than 2:34:20.560 --> 2:34:24.720 walking around in a gas mask. And we actually need 2:34:24.840 --> 2:34:26.960 to build these social norms. I think the reason that 2:34:27.000 --> 2:34:30.720 people have stopped masking in a lot of parts of 2:34:30.720 --> 2:34:32.760 the country is literally just because of social norms. Have 2:34:32.879 --> 2:34:35.320 stopped having people mask and people don't want to be 2:34:35.400 --> 2:34:38.040 the weirdo with a mask. And I will say, as 2:34:38.080 --> 2:34:40.520 someone who has been the weirdo for the past thirty 2:34:40.600 --> 2:34:44.520 years of my life, it's not that bad to be 2:34:44.640 --> 2:34:48.520 the weirdo. And we can build new social norms. And 2:34:48.640 --> 2:34:51.560 so if you're worried about wearing a half mask respirator 2:34:51.600 --> 2:34:54.120 and a smoke emergency because you'll look weird, it is 2:34:54.240 --> 2:34:57.879 better than getting sick. 2:34:58.200 --> 2:35:01.280 Yeah, Yeah, it's one of those things. All of us 2:35:01.360 --> 2:35:04.000 crazy people had a nice moment yeah, at the start 2:35:04.040 --> 2:35:06.200 of the pandemic when we like looked over at our 2:35:06.280 --> 2:35:10.000 mountains of beans and storable foods and rifles, and. 2:35:10.320 --> 2:35:12.960 Ah, it was all worthwhile. 2:35:13.120 --> 2:35:16.560 Yeah, And so we need to break the social modum 2:35:16.560 --> 2:35:19.520 about preparing in general, right, And I actually, I mean 2:35:19.520 --> 2:35:21.160 if you're listening to the show, then you're probably a 2:35:21.200 --> 2:35:24.200 little bit aware of this, but we just yeah, like 2:35:24.320 --> 2:35:26.879 talk to your friends who wouldn't normally talk about preparing 2:35:27.000 --> 2:35:29.920 and talk about how we can how we can do this. 2:35:30.080 --> 2:35:32.360 We need to make preparedness like a part of our 2:35:32.440 --> 2:35:36.400 culture because shit is getting more intense. 2:35:36.920 --> 2:35:41.560 Yeah, so you know, handle handle your shit. Sorry, this 2:35:41.760 --> 2:35:45.200 is happening to you, you east Sts, you Coasti's I 2:35:45.280 --> 2:35:48.200 did hear a good joke recently where someone was like, 2:35:49.080 --> 2:35:52.360 the visibility is so bad that we New Yorkers can't 2:35:52.400 --> 2:35:56.680 even go on walking here anymore. Yeah, it's good. It's 2:35:56.760 --> 2:36:06.440 good anyway. Enjoy that joke everybody, and avoid dying. Hey, 2:36:06.600 --> 2:36:09.680 we'll be back Monday with more episodes every week from 2:36:09.720 --> 2:36:11.400 now until the heat death of the Universe. 2:36:12.000 --> 2:36:14.360 It Could Happen Here as a production of cool Zone Media. 2:36:14.600 --> 2:36:17.240 For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 2:36:17.320 --> 2:36:20.440 coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 2:36:20.440 --> 2:36:23.600 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can 2:36:23.680 --> 2:36:26.320 find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated monthly at 2:36:26.400 --> 2:36:28.560 coolzonemedia dot com slash sources. 2:36:28.800 --> 2:36:29.600 Thanks for listening.