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Speaker 1: Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let

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Speaker 1: you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode

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Speaker 1: of the week that just happened is here in one

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Speaker 1: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to

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Speaker 1: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If

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Speaker 1: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,

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Speaker 1: there's got to be nothing new here for you, But

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Speaker 1: you can make your own decisions.

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Speaker 2: It's It's it can happen here. It's the podcast sometimes

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Speaker 2: hosted by me and Bia Wong.

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Speaker 3: It is.

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Speaker 2: I guess this is a combination things falling apart putting

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Speaker 2: things back together.

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Speaker 4: Episode.

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Speaker 2: We are doing some more coverage of the US's sort

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Speaker 2: of epidemic of mass evictions. But yeah, so with me

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Speaker 2: to talk about this is Max Is, one of the

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Speaker 2: organizers and co founders of Santa Barbara Tennant's Union, and

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Speaker 2: Sam Sapiazi, who's another tenant and a member of the union.

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Speaker 5: YouTube.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, welcome to the show.

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Speaker 3: I thank you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So, I guess we should start with talking about

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Speaker 2: the specific mass eviction that is happening, which has been

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Speaker 2: caused by a terrifying and unfortunate product of my hometown Chicago,

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Speaker 2: a very large company called core Spaces, who have incredibly

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Speaker 2: suspicious branding for the fact that they're a giant landlord company.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I think guy has bought your building and is attempting

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Speaker 2: to evict everyone is.

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Speaker 3: This Yeah, Yeah, So Core Spaces out of Chicago and

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Speaker 3: I believe Austin, Texas have purchased r for building apartment

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Speaker 3: complex approximately two hundred and forty three units. I believe

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Speaker 3: over a thousand people.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and they just immediately Yeah. So I guess this

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Speaker 2: is one of the other things we should we should

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Speaker 2: talk about first. Is this thing that landlords do where

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Speaker 2: they either buy a property or they have a property,

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Speaker 2: then they're like, oh, hey, we're doing renovations on we're

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Speaker 2: evicting everyone, and then you don't let anyone ever come

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Speaker 2: back because you're you know, you're quote unquote renovation. You're

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Speaker 2: just a way to do a price hike, which seems

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Speaker 2: to be what's happening here.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 6: And renoviction it's a nice it's a nice term for that, right, renoviction.

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Speaker 6: It's you're renovating to evict, Just to if listeners aren't

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Speaker 6: aware of that term.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think if I'm understanding their plan, right,

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Speaker 2: they're trying to basically turn this into luxury student housing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's that's what we presume. That's kind of

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Speaker 3: their business model is to buy up housing in college

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Speaker 3: towns and do some renovations and then hike up the

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Speaker 3: rent drastically.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I mean, that's definitely a thing that happened. There's a

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Speaker 2: lot of colleges in Chicago, which I don't know, presumably

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Speaker 2: people know that on a sort of abstract level, but

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Speaker 2: this is the thing that happens basically everywhere there are colleges.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we've we've actually talked to other like grad student

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Speaker 2: organizers about this stuff too, because it up sort of

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Speaker 2: affecting everyone at all sides.

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Speaker 7: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So I guess, Okay, so facing this eviction, I guess

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Speaker 2: I wanted to talk about how you all started organizing

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Speaker 2: against it.

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Speaker 3: We got our original notices on March sixteenth. We had previously,

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Speaker 3: I want to say it was like December or January.

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Speaker 3: We had got notice that some people will be coming

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Speaker 3: through our apartments investors to look at it, and I

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Speaker 3: like took pictures of my bathroom and my kitchen. It

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Speaker 3: was super and so we kind of I think a

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Speaker 3: lot of us knew at that point like, Okay, something's

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Speaker 3: going on, right obviously. And then March, I want to

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Speaker 3: say it was March fifteenth or sixteenth, we got a

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Speaker 3: notice that the building was sold from Essex to Course Spaces.

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Speaker 3: And then it was the day after that we got

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Speaker 3: a notice that said, hey, you're all getting evicted because

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Speaker 3: we got to do renovations. I kind of expected it

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Speaker 3: to be honest, because I've seen what Blackstone has done. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and I had just heard about it from a lot

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Speaker 3: of properties or also tenants, like in La friends that

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Speaker 3: I had, other college students that had had this happen

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Speaker 3: to them. But after that, basically, I mean, I don't

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Speaker 3: want to speak for everyone but my own personal Like

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Speaker 3: what I did. I just kind of went on Reddit

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Speaker 3: and was like, hey, this really awful thing is happening.

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Speaker 3: You know. I went on the UCSB reddit page. This

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Speaker 3: really awful thing is happening. There's like a lot of

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Speaker 3: families that live here. There's so many Section eight disabled people,

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Speaker 3: elderly and udents, but our complex is a little different

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Speaker 3: and that it does have more of the marginalized groups.

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Speaker 3: And I went on Reddit and was like, dude, this

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Speaker 3: is this is awful, like just yeah. So I made

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Speaker 3: a post saying this sucks, and from there I was

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Speaker 3: referenced to contact Santa Barbara Tendancynon which I was like

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Speaker 3: kind of hesitant at first, because I was like, oh,

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Speaker 3: what are they going to do, Like I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I thought, you know, it's just like one of those

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Speaker 3: resources you get where you're just like, are they actually

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Speaker 3: going to do anything or is this just for me

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Speaker 3: to like waste my time with. But I reached out

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Speaker 3: and I got, you know, a response back within hours

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Speaker 3: and they're like, yes, here's a flyer for you. We

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Speaker 3: are we have your back, We're going to do this,

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Speaker 3: we will support you. And so from there, I want

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Speaker 3: to say, it was within a day or two, we

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Speaker 3: went flying door to door. And remember it's it's two

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Speaker 3: hundred and like I said, I think it's play sixteen. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's it's it's a lot of it's a lot units

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Speaker 3: to knock doors on. I know one of our county representatives,

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Speaker 3: Laura Capps, called it the largest eviction in California history,

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Speaker 3: and I've heard others say at the largest eviction in

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Speaker 3: the United States history. I don't I don't know if

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Speaker 3: that's uh what they're basing that off of. But it's

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Speaker 3: a gigantic eviction. There are many people here. But yeah,

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Speaker 3: So from there, I just went like door to door knocking.

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Speaker 3: I knew none of my neighbors. I am a hermit.

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Speaker 3: I stay in my apartment. I keep my curtains closed.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, but the only contact other like my neighbors

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Speaker 3: make are with my cats just chilling in the windows

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Speaker 3: and stuff.

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Speaker 2: But I mean, yeah, to be fair with cat in

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Speaker 2: the windows not the worst rep you can have.

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Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, true. But even even then, I yeah,

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Speaker 3: I didn't even want my cats in the windows.

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Speaker 4: I was.

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Speaker 3: I was very very antisocial. I still am. But I

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Speaker 3: have opened my mind quite a bit and come out

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Speaker 3: of my shell a little bit. But that's irrelevant. From there,

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Speaker 3: like I said, we went flying. We went door to door.

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Speaker 3: We found other people that were like, oh, yeah, this

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Speaker 3: is super messed up, like we need to fight this.

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Speaker 2: And we.

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Speaker 3: By just going door to door telling people, hey, we

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Speaker 3: can fight this eviction. These eviction notices aren't super valid. Anyway,

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Speaker 3: we were able to get a gigantic group of our

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Speaker 3: neighbors together. Yeah, yeah, and it kind of move from there.

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Speaker 3: I don't know how much further. I should explain, there's

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Speaker 3: such a like long timeline of the things that have

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Speaker 3: happened in the past two months. So I don't know

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Speaker 3: where you want me to go from there, but you

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Speaker 3: know that's at least the beginning of it was just

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Speaker 3: you know, us flying going door to door, getting everyone together,

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Speaker 3: getting everyone in a in a group chat, and then

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Speaker 3: SBTU truly supporting us and telling us, hey, here's the

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Speaker 3: next steps that you need to do. This is how

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Speaker 3: you become you know, a union, a tennis association for

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Speaker 3: your for yourselves right with their full on support.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so there is one thing I wanted to sort

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Speaker 2: of talk about a little bit before we move on,

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Speaker 2: which is, yeah, can you explain what Section eight is

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Speaker 2: for listeners who don't know.

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Speaker 3: I can explain it based off my knowledge. I'm not

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Speaker 3: currently on Section eight, but I know that resident many

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Speaker 3: residents here are on Section eight, which I probably couldn't

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Speaker 3: give the best description of it personally, but I know

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Speaker 3: a lot of times it's people that are very low

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Speaker 3: income or disabled individuals, people that can't work for various reasons,

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Speaker 3: get low income housing, meaning they pay Maybe I know

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Speaker 3: some of our residents, for example, pay like they get

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Speaker 3: Section eight vouchers that will pay about twenty five twenty

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Speaker 3: six hundred dollars for their rent and their utilities, and

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Speaker 3: then maybe they pay one hundred or two hundred because

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Speaker 3: they're unable to get that income otherwise. But Max might

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Speaker 3: be able to describe it a little bit better than me.

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Speaker 5: Well, that sounds about right.

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Speaker 6: I grew up on Section eight with like a single

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Speaker 6: mom and stuff, and she yeah, I mean, it's just

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Speaker 6: subsidized housing. It's basically it's what public housing, or in

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Speaker 6: some countries, social housing would be.

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Speaker 5: But in the eighties, like the Reagan era like gutted

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Speaker 5: all public.

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Speaker 6: Housing, and so the concession was it's a voucher based

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Speaker 6: system for the poor, like for the low income people.

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Speaker 6: So yeah, it's just the government, Okay, a portion of it.

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Speaker 5: Some said it pretty bigger. I think, yeah, And.

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Speaker 2: I guess, you know, I guess that this is the

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Speaker 2: sort of Yeah, an interesting thing about your building is

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Speaker 2: that there's a very there's a very wide range of

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Speaker 2: like sort of different backgrounds of people who are involved.

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Speaker 2: And I was wondering, you know, we talk a little

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Speaker 2: bit about like what that's been like.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So I guess I could say we have four buildings,

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Speaker 3: so we have so it's CBC and the SWEEPS, so

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Speaker 3: it stands for Colonial Balboa Cortes Sweeps. The SWEEPS has

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Speaker 3: a lot of students because it rents by the bed,

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Speaker 3: but CBC has a on of families. And as we mentioned,

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Speaker 3: you know Section eight and lower income. I want to

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Speaker 3: say I had heard from another representative, like a county representative,

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Speaker 3: this is I think it might have been more apps.

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Speaker 3: Don't quote me on this, but that this is like

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Speaker 3: the lowest one of the lowest income housing apartments in

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Speaker 3: Ila Vista, and so there's a ton of like large families.

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Speaker 3: When when this happened, you just people were just crying

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Speaker 3: everywhere like they didn't know what to do.

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Speaker 6: This building is it's not unlike a lot of buildings

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Speaker 6: where you have a pretty diverse kind of I guess

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Speaker 6: just class composition. And I'm just like, so, so you know,

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Speaker 6: if you think there's disabled people that have caseworkers, you

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Speaker 6: have monolingual Spanish speaking immigrants, You have students, and you

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Speaker 6: have some students who are sort of like city college

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Speaker 6: students that are working full time or part time and

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Speaker 6: their full time students so they're sort of worker students.

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Speaker 6: There's like full time UCSB students whose like parents may.

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Speaker 5: Be totally loaded or whatever.

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Speaker 6: You have you know, often an immigrant and low income

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Speaker 6: family families. You have like way more people packed into

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Speaker 6: like a one or two bedroom than you would want.

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Speaker 6: But it's the only way for free to make rent

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Speaker 6: because rent keeps going up every year. So there's a

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Speaker 6: lot of that, And so I guess I'll just speak

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Speaker 6: to I mean, I've only you know, I've run into

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Speaker 6: it a bit, like I'm in the group chats and

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Speaker 6: I've been I've been to the building like a few times,

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Speaker 6: but I'm not like there every day, and I'm not

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Speaker 6: like flying every day and stuff like Sam is living there.

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Speaker 6: But like one common kind of like difficult. It's like

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Speaker 6: it's it's a beautiful thing and it's a difficulty and

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Speaker 6: that like there's so we need interpreters. And like in

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Speaker 6: sbtwo we have where we're a sort of self funded

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Speaker 6: autonomous tenets union, which means we don't get grants from

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Speaker 6: like wealthy foundations or government government entities.

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Speaker 5: Or whatever, so we can kind of more dependently make decisions.

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Speaker 6: So but we have like a fair amount dues money

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Speaker 6: now just from the mass membership that we have kind

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Speaker 6: of built, and so we can afford to pay interpreters

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Speaker 6: to come out basically whenever we need. So there's been

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Speaker 6: interpreters there at almost every one of the Saturday meetings,

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Speaker 6: and without that it would it would actually just be impossible,

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Speaker 6: I mean not like so that's like when there's a

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Speaker 6: language barrier, right that makes it hard to organize, or

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Speaker 6: it wouldn't be impossible. There's there's a handful of like

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Speaker 6: bilingual people, but they're usually super busy. It's if if

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Speaker 6: if one of them doesn't show up, or if the

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Speaker 6: child of a parent, like a teenager of a parent

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Speaker 6: isn't there or whatever, right, like, how do you actually

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Speaker 6: get the info across? So I'll just speak to lastly

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Speaker 6: on that that it is like it's a really kind

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Speaker 6: of frustrating, sad situation. And we could probably elaborate on

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Speaker 6: this in that like the whether it's the lawyers right

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Speaker 6: now who have been hired by by Course Baces, which

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Speaker 6: they're a snaky, slimy piece of shit, evil firm. They're

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Speaker 6: called Tyne Taylor, Fox Howard LP. Just if you see

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Speaker 6: any of them on the street, just give them dirty looks.

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Speaker 6: Don't do anything violent, use that against me at some

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Speaker 6: point in the inevitable thing that's probably gonna happen. But

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Speaker 6: but whether it's them with the landlords directly, there's there's

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Speaker 6: always a you know, this is happens in labor organizing.

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Speaker 5: It's a divide and conquer strategy.

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Speaker 6: So they want to spread misinformation amongst the Latinos or

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Speaker 6: amongst you know, amongst the families, amongst the disabled, like

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Speaker 6: whoever they can sort of get an ear to, they're

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Speaker 6: going to give them certain kinds of information to make

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Speaker 6: them really afraid. They're going to tell them lies, and

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Speaker 6: and they're going to get people to try to self evict.

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Speaker 6: So I'm I am jumping a little bit ahead, but

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Speaker 6: like that, that definitely has been like a challenge in

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Speaker 6: that you know, if there was like a totally like linguistically,

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Speaker 6: culturally monolithic group of a thousand people, that would probably

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Speaker 6: be a little bit easier to keep things like totally unified.

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Speaker 6: But those those demographic different differences do present some challenges

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Speaker 6: for sure.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes it, that makes sense. I mean if

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Speaker 2: we've talked to a couple of other kinds of associations

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Speaker 2: that have had to actually well, I mean this one

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Speaker 2: was actually like you know, and back when I was

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Speaker 2: doing tennis to organizing too, like i've i've i've I've

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Speaker 2: seen worse in terms of like like in in terms

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Speaker 2: of like the number of languages. But it's still like

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Speaker 2: never like an enormously easy thing to sort of have

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Speaker 2: to bridge, Like just having to bridge linguistic divides too,

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Speaker 2: especially when you're getting information like misinformation different languages is

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Speaker 2: a whole thing. I could I could talk for like

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Speaker 2: seven hours about the effects this has had on like

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Speaker 2: Asian American communities, like Chinese Americ communities particular. Yeah, but

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Speaker 2: instead of doing that, we're gonna we have to take

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Speaker 2: an ad break. We'll be back after whatever incomprehensible ads

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Speaker 2: are playing.

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Speaker 5: Okay, cool, great ads. Bye by the stuff on the ads.

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Speaker 2: And we're back. I hope the ads were short.

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Speaker 6: I don't know, there are some great ads.

283
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Speaker 5: I'm gonna buy that thing whatever.

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Speaker 2: The Raking coins again or like one of the casinos.

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Speaker 5: Okay, So.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I guess, yeah, you know, we'll just okay.

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Speaker 2: Having having having done a thematic jump, I will now

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Speaker 2: go back to chronological jumps, which is okay, So you

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Speaker 2: have you're starting these organizing what what starts to happen

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Speaker 2: after you're starting to get people together and you have

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Speaker 2: the tenants, the center parpat tendency need involved.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. So it started from flying getting to everyone just

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Speaker 3: like a basic letting them know that they don't have

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Speaker 3: to move, that this eviction is this eviction is bullshit.

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Speaker 5: Right. Oh but by the way, we didn't. We were

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Speaker 5: never giving legal advice that people shouldn't move.

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Speaker 6: It was if you don't want to, you don't have

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Speaker 6: to because there's certain illegitimacies. Just because I know that

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Speaker 6: the slimy piece of human fucking garbage fire trash lawyers

300
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Speaker 6: are going to be listening to this and trying to

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Speaker 6: use us again, use it against us.

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Speaker 3: Go ahead, Yeah, no, thank you for the correction. That

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Speaker 3: is entirely Yeah, they don't have to if they don't

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Speaker 3: do basically. But yeah, So after we did the flying,

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Speaker 3: we Santa our Attendants Union set us up with some

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Speaker 3: group chats and we just worked together. From there. We

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Speaker 3: just started talking to one another, and I think it

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Speaker 3: was it was a new situation for most of us.

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Speaker 3: A lot of I mentioned this before, but a lot

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Speaker 3: of us didn't talk to each other before. We didn't

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Speaker 3: go out of our apartments, which I think is kind

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Speaker 3: of normal nowadays. It's not like you know the sixties,

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Speaker 3: where like, oh, everyone has a house and knows the

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Speaker 3: neighbors and stuff. No, people kind of keep to themselves,

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Speaker 3: especially in really large apartment complexes. So yeah, we we

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Speaker 3: just started going in the group chat and then someone

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Speaker 3: was like, hey, I can do this. Another person was hey,

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Speaker 3: I can do this, and then eventually we set up

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Speaker 3: a group meeting where we could all come together and

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Speaker 3: basically share our our feelings, our emotions, our pain about this,

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Speaker 3: but also find a way to fight against it. So

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Speaker 3: what we learned was, which we fully learned from the

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Speaker 3: center of our rettenants union, was oh, if we go

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Speaker 3: in front of the county board, we can convince them,

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Speaker 3: we can share our stories, we can share our pain,

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Speaker 3: and we can tell them, hey, we need the law

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Speaker 3: to change, we can pass something, we can use our

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Speaker 3: voices to stop this from not only happening to us

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Speaker 3: but future residents. So from there it was really in

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Speaker 3: the early stages. We I don't know if this is

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Speaker 3: jumping ahead. Honestly, my brain is a little foggurant. So

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Speaker 3: there's so much that's happened, so quickly, but I do

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Speaker 3: know the next biggest step was us coming in front

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Speaker 3: of the of the Santa Barbara County Supervisors Board of

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Speaker 3: Supervisors and telling our stories and sharing that. I think

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Speaker 3: Max could probably also share a little bit.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I have, so like the dates in my head

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Speaker 6: are like, you know, the March fifteenth they bought the building,

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Speaker 6: March sixteenth, they issued the notices, and then April sixth,

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Speaker 6: which is like three weeks from that, they passed the

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Speaker 6: new law. So that means I mean that's like three yeah,

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Speaker 6: a three week period from the notices to like having

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Speaker 6: I think at least a couple of meetings with like

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Speaker 6: dozens of people I don't know, thirty to fifty plus

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Speaker 6: people there, and then like forming you.

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Speaker 5: Know, deciding to form the association and.

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Speaker 6: Voting to call I don't remember exactly if the vote

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Speaker 6: to call it. Course, basis their association was before that

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Speaker 6: the county meeting or after.

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Speaker 5: But and then they're also because there's there's also two like.

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Speaker 6: Pretty crazy facts here too, where like about so six

352
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Speaker 6: weeks before, of course BACES announced a new ownership, all

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Speaker 6: of us in SBTU had sort of we heard so

354
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Speaker 6: many stories on the Santa Barbara City level, and Santa

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Speaker 6: Barbara's City is not the county, right. The county is

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Speaker 6: like this larger geographical entity, and Santa Barbara City is

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Speaker 6: within the county. On the city level, we've been hearing

358
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Speaker 6: so many really terrible stories about people being renevicted, and

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Speaker 6: we just decided.

360
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Speaker 5: To kind of like throw people at like yo.

361
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Speaker 6: Go to go to public comment, tell the city about

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Speaker 6: what they're doing, Tell them they need to pass a

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Speaker 6: ban on renovictions. We had like a big rally in

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Speaker 6: front of city council and we were just going week

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Speaker 6: after week, and after about six weeks of this, like

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Speaker 6: four to six weeks, I forget the exact timeline, we

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Speaker 6: got the city to pass. It wasn't a ban on renovictions,

368
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Speaker 6: but it was an amendment to their what's called their

369
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Speaker 6: Just Cause Ordinance, which makes it a lot harder for

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Speaker 6: landlords to renevict and that now that they have to

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Speaker 6: get permits first, they have to to put the permits

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Speaker 6: in the eviction notices when they're going to do it,

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Speaker 6: they need to there's some language that says that it

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00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:07,159
Speaker 6: needs to be done in good faith, which which is

375
00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:10,719
Speaker 6: like really subtle but potentially really important because if your

376
00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:12,760
Speaker 6: reason is that you just want to trigger what's called

377
00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:15,520
Speaker 6: vacancy de control, which is like kicking people out so

378
00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:17,960
Speaker 6: you can jack the rent over the ten percent limit.

379
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:21,280
Speaker 6: In California, like like right now, a landlord can raise

380
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Speaker 6: the rent about ten percent every year if just just

381
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Speaker 6: because they want to, but if you can get people

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Speaker 6: out of the unit, you can raise it to whatever

383
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Speaker 6: you want. So on the city level, it was just

384
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Speaker 6: it was a really big deal. We had just won it,

385
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Speaker 6: and we were like pretty exhausted from it. We're like, shit,

386
00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:38,920
Speaker 6: that was a lot of work, and we won really quickly,

387
00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:41,359
Speaker 6: and everybody around us that's been doing stuff for a

388
00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:42,679
Speaker 6: while was like, we don't know how you guys did

389
00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:43,600
Speaker 6: that shit so fast.

390
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Speaker 5: That was really amazing. And then like I.

391
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Speaker 6: Think it was like the week, like within a couple

392
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Speaker 6: of days of us like celebrating that win course spaces

393
00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:55,560
Speaker 6: the core spaces thing. Yeah, but this is but this

394
00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:58,120
Speaker 6: is county jurisdiction. So we were like, okay, I guess

395
00:21:58,160 --> 00:21:59,680
Speaker 6: we got to go from city account. We got to

396
00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:02,399
Speaker 6: get the need to do the same fucking thing. So

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00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:04,639
Speaker 6: we were already really fucking exhausted, like we were. There

398
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:06,840
Speaker 6: was like a sprint sprint sprint sprint, like every week.

399
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Speaker 6: So the reason I'm bringing this up is it just

400
00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:13,159
Speaker 6: felt like natural for us to just like and we

401
00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:15,320
Speaker 6: don't like tell people what to do, like not to

402
00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:17,520
Speaker 6: not like correcting you, Sam, But when it's like Okay,

403
00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:19,119
Speaker 6: do this, do this, do this, it's sort of like

404
00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:22,240
Speaker 6: we ourselves are just tenants. We're not paid staff, we're

405
00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:25,760
Speaker 6: not like highly trained like nonprofit staffers or something like

406
00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:29,000
Speaker 6: that that I think we know everything. We're just tenants

407
00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:31,080
Speaker 6: ourselves that are in the struggle just like everyone else,

408
00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:34,880
Speaker 6: and we're trying to gain information, share information, and become

409
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:37,359
Speaker 6: collectively smarter and more experienced and better at handling the

410
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:40,119
Speaker 6: shit together. And so we were like, hey, we just

411
00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:42,720
Speaker 6: won some shit on the city level. If you guys,

412
00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:45,359
Speaker 6: throw all of all of you, which is like a

413
00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:48,919
Speaker 6: lot of you straight to those county meetings. And the

414
00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:53,640
Speaker 6: county meetings are every Tuesday at nine am and they

415
00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:55,960
Speaker 6: go back and forth every week between Santa Barbara and

416
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Speaker 6: Santa Maria. Santa Maria is like an hour to hour

417
00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:00,960
Speaker 6: and a half drive from where they live, so that's

418
00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:04,240
Speaker 6: like pretty unrealistic for most people to not only get

419
00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:06,920
Speaker 6: work off and stuff like that, but like that upcoming

420
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:09,200
Speaker 6: Tuesday from that meeting we had that Saturday. They just

421
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:10,840
Speaker 6: happen to be in Santa Barbara, which is more like

422
00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:11,920
Speaker 6: a ten to fifteen minute.

423
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Speaker 5: Drive like down the streets.

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Speaker 6: So we're like, okay, there's the fucking meeting, like we

425
00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:19,399
Speaker 6: want to try to get people there. And so the

426
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:23,119
Speaker 6: you know, the news it was like hought off the

427
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:25,320
Speaker 6: presses for a week or two. There was all these

428
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:32,480
Speaker 6: articles on the crisis, and then so that Tuesday morning,

429
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:34,800
Speaker 6: all of them going and hitting the public comment, hitting

430
00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:37,800
Speaker 6: the mic, and and I should say like public comment

431
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:40,800
Speaker 6: is typically anybody who's like gone to the public comment

432
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:43,280
Speaker 6: at a city or count like a government meeting, there's

433
00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:45,879
Speaker 6: usually one or two people that are just like really weird,

434
00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:48,560
Speaker 6: like they are they're like human on they're like human

435
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:51,280
Speaker 6: on people, or they are like or like they're like

436
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:54,000
Speaker 6: the next door care in person that's complaining about, like

437
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:57,560
Speaker 6: I don't know, some stupid stupid shit that nobody gives

438
00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:00,600
Speaker 6: a fuck about. But like sometimes that person actually gets

439
00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:03,520
Speaker 6: something changed because they actually complain over and over again.

440
00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:07,320
Speaker 6: And then there's actual agenda items in these government meetings

441
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:13,720
Speaker 6: and having this many people like totally flood of public

442
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:16,280
Speaker 6: comment just for one issue as if it's on the agenda,

443
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:21,159
Speaker 6: is like it's kind of jaw dropping, right, So people

444
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:24,080
Speaker 6: just went so crazy with it. People got off of work,

445
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 6: they were monolingual Spanish speakers. They just spoke in Spanish

446
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:28,960
Speaker 6: and there's a live interpreter.

447
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:30,320
Speaker 5: That they legally have to have at the county meeting.

448
00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:35,760
Speaker 6: So on Wednesday, the county supervisors called an emergency meeting

449
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:39,479
Speaker 6: for Thursday, and on Thursday they passed the Emergency just

450
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:42,840
Speaker 6: Caused Ordinance, which was just basically copy pasting the city

451
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:46,520
Speaker 6: ordinance that we'd just won after the six week like marathon.

452
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:49,639
Speaker 5: So I don't know if you if you caught all that,

453
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:50,720
Speaker 5: but like that's how from.

454
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:52,919
Speaker 6: All perspectives, is like don't we don't live in the building.

455
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:54,920
Speaker 6: We just like we just try to make shit happen.

456
00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:58,920
Speaker 6: Like it was insane of like how quickly because it

457
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 6: took us about six weeks for the city thing, which

458
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:02,920
Speaker 6: was still like everyone told us, like that's rapid fire.

459
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:05,320
Speaker 6: Laws don't get changed that quickly, and this was like

460
00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:06,400
Speaker 6: two weeks or some shit.

461
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was. I was stunned by this when I

462
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:10,040
Speaker 2: was reading about these, like this is one of the

463
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:13,439
Speaker 2: fastest like, this is one of the fastest campaigns I've

464
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 2: ever seen, Like I don't know, like I we've we've

465
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:21,720
Speaker 2: run into like Chicago City Council before, for example, and they,

466
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:28,000
Speaker 2: oh boy, those people are yeah yeah, so yeah, it

467
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:31,240
Speaker 2: was a really impressive campaign that you all were able

468
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:32,240
Speaker 2: to pull off.

469
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:38,119
Speaker 6: Like yeah, but and this narrative is if we wanted

470
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:40,040
Speaker 6: to like really make this in a curated way, we

471
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 6: could probably have like hopeful, we could have inspirational background music.

472
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:45,880
Speaker 6: Then we could have like horror music, and we could

473
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:48,119
Speaker 6: have because I mean, I don't know, Sam, if you

474
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 6: want to take it from that.

475
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,159
Speaker 5: But there's also been some very dark turns since.

476
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:55,639
Speaker 6: That, Yeah, like very dark, depressing, scary turns because the

477
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:57,399
Speaker 6: minute well all this, I guess I'll just say it.

478
00:25:57,440 --> 00:25:59,639
Speaker 6: If we want to go deeper into we can or

479
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:03,800
Speaker 6: skip it. But like as soon as we were really excited,

480
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:06,760
Speaker 6: like okay, they can't like what we just did makes

481
00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 6: it illegal for them to evict everyone like for now

482
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:11,679
Speaker 6: because they don't have permits. And oh oh and this

483
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:13,960
Speaker 6: is this is actually really like important kind of legal

484
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 6: fact is that that what the law said was that

485
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 6: this notice applies to any current notices posted to tenant

486
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 6: stores like after this date, as well as unlawful detainers.

487
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:28,440
Speaker 6: Unlawful detainer is a fancy term for an eviction lawsuit.

488
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:33,920
Speaker 6: So so basically like any eviction lawsuit that Course Spaces

489
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 6: would try to file against any of the two hundred

490
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:41,639
Speaker 6: and fifty plus people would be they would just be

491
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:43,840
Speaker 6: tossed out in court because they're just like you. You know,

492
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 6: an eviction defense attorney would just point to the law

493
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:48,480
Speaker 6: and be like, the new law says you have to

494
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 6: do X, Y and Z, and they didn't.

495
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:50,560
Speaker 5: They be like, yeah, you're right.

496
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:54,639
Speaker 6: It's just very there's nothing ambiguous. It's not it's not

497
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:56,439
Speaker 6: a great area. It's not like you can interpret it

498
00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:58,399
Speaker 6: this or that way. It's just not you can't.

499
00:26:58,440 --> 00:26:58,879
Speaker 5: You can't.

500
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 6: There's no like, there's no like the other side we

501
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 6: say like, well what about this and this, there's no

502
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 6: well there's no other thing. But immediately, like almost immediately,

503
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:12,240
Speaker 6: within like a week or something, the other side started

504
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:18,359
Speaker 6: countering with like insane propaganda, like like disinformation, which I

505
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:20,680
Speaker 6: guess I'm kind of taking up a lot of space now,

506
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:23,359
Speaker 6: but Sam, I don't know if you want to, because

507
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 6: you're actually there with all the people having being foresped

508
00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:31,680
Speaker 6: the disinformation but by by Tyne Taylor, Fox, Howard Lop

509
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 6: and four spaces vertically integrated private equity piece of shit firm.

510
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, so the emergency ordinance passed and we all were like, yay,

511
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 3: this is great, we have protections. But then yeah, that

512
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 3: law firm decided to well that end management. Actually, I

513
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:59,359
Speaker 3: think prior to the law firm's notices on our door,

514
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:03,800
Speaker 3: man went around being like like, come pick up your checks.

515
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:07,159
Speaker 3: These aren't you know, like you need you need to

516
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 3: go take your checks, You need to sign that you're leaving,

517
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:14,960
Speaker 3: et cetera. And when that notice from the the Tyne

518
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:17,600
Speaker 3: Law Firm came signed by Lacy Taylor.

519
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 5: It Lay Taylor reported.

520
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 3: To the bar it basically said, this doesn't apply to you,

521
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 3: and if you I mean, okay, this is my interpretation

522
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:32,679
Speaker 3: of it. When I read it as a just you know,

523
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 3: random human being, not a law major or anything, it

524
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:43,040
Speaker 3: sounded like they would take our relocation checks and or

525
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 3: charge us more money if we bought back. That's the

526
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 3: way it was phrased. Granted, I know it was like

527
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 3: law jargon, but it was made to almost like, in

528
00:28:55,960 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 3: my opinion, harass us. Like it felt like, oh, everything

529
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 3: the course basis tennasalization and SBT is saying is a lie.

530
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:09,240
Speaker 3: This is the truth. If you want to join them

531
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 3: and be with them, well you might not get your

532
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 3: relocation assistance check and or we might charge you more

533
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 3: from that, at least with that specific notice. It was

534
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 3: super confusing. And you know, most people here don't have

535
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 3: law degrees. They don't they don't know the law. On

536
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:34,240
Speaker 3: top of that, you know, the law firm intentionally left

537
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 3: out the last part of the ordinance. They said, hey,

538
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:40,720
Speaker 3: this doesn't apply to you because the eviction notice were

539
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 3: issued before this, but it left out the unlawful detainer part.

540
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 5: Yes, so it was it's lying by omission.

541
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:55,600
Speaker 6: It's like I wish I had a good movie example

542
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 6: or something, but like we've all seen this kind of thing, right,

543
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 6: It's like you tell the person everything and then you

544
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 6: kind of black out the last part of the sentence

545
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 6: so that I don't know, I wish, I wish there

546
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:07,840
Speaker 6: was like an obvious movie thing to be like, look

547
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:09,719
Speaker 6: at what the villain did. So the person would like

548
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:13,040
Speaker 6: make the wrong choice like go down the wrong path

549
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:15,040
Speaker 6: in the forest or some shit right like, so they'd

550
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 6: get attacked like like, that's what it did.

551
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:17,880
Speaker 5: That's what they did.

552
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:20,600
Speaker 3: That was that was exactly what they did. They literally

553
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 3: quoted the new ordinance and then cut off the second

554
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 3: half and put dot dot dot.

555
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 8: Which was implying something else was there, right.

556
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:34,120
Speaker 6: I mean maybe maybe some English major was like, oh,

557
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:36,000
Speaker 6: I wonder what's in that dot dot dot, Like what's

558
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:36,880
Speaker 6: the rest of the quote.

559
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 5: But that's the thing.

560
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 6: That's the thing about like using abusing their power as lawyers,

561
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 6: fancy letterhead and all this shit of knowing. And this

562
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 6: goes back to like this this kind of diversity of

563
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 6: class composition.

564
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 8: Right.

565
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:50,960
Speaker 6: If this is a bunch of like super highly educated

566
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 6: uh professionals, like either with law degrees or or whatever,

567
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 6: they'd be like, Oh, I'm just going to jump onto

568
00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 6: the county, you know. I'm gonna like look up the

569
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 6: ordinance and be like, oh, it's Ordnance five to one whatever,

570
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 6: and I'm going to read through it and be like, Aha,

571
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:07,840
Speaker 6: they left out the unlawful detainer. But like, how my

572
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:11,560
Speaker 6: guess is almost zero of the tenants to receive those

573
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 6: notices did that.

574
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 5: And that was that was the law firm. That was

575
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 5: That was Tyne.

576
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:18,960
Speaker 6: And Taylor and Fox and Howard and whoever the fuck

577
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 6: else's is involved in their in their you know, fraudulent

578
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:26,440
Speaker 6: joke of a firm there. Their whole thing was they

579
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 6: wanted to scare people to get to get them the

580
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 6: self evict. Right, So if you think about like the

581
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:33,960
Speaker 6: logistics of like like okay, let's say you're a you're

582
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 6: a landlord firm that works for landlords, and.

583
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:39,960
Speaker 5: You you evict people and you get paid a lot.

584
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 6: Of money to do so, Right, So you get paid

585
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 6: some retainer amount that's like I don't know, tens of

586
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 6: thousands or more just for just for like being on

587
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 6: a call to do stuff for them, and then and

588
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:55,200
Speaker 6: then maybe you get paid of other amounts. You you're

589
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:57,480
Speaker 6: looking at you're looking at a situation like this, and

590
00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:00,719
Speaker 6: you're like, okay, two hundred and fifty units and then

591
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 6: there's somewhere between five hundred and one thousand people, and like,

592
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:05,600
Speaker 6: you know, you don't need to evict the little kids,

593
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 6: but like you need to evict like every person on

594
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:12,000
Speaker 6: the lease. Like that's a lot of unlawful detainers. Like

595
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 6: that's a lot of filing that we're going to have

596
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 6: to do, meaning we're going to have to like get

597
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 6: every single name and every single lease, and we're going

598
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 6: to have to like every individual person on every lease,

599
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 6: we're going to have to file an eviction lawsuit in

600
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 6: the court that we know is going to get tossed out.

601
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:31,280
Speaker 6: Like that's so much fucking work for us to do.

602
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 6: We don't want to do all that work. That's insane, right,

603
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 6: Like we we want to kind of just keep this

604
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 6: retainer money and do like minimal work, like because we

605
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:41,760
Speaker 6: also don't have it. It's a four person law firm,

606
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:44,000
Speaker 6: and they probably have some legal assistance, but like, do

607
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:45,880
Speaker 6: they really have the capacity to do something of that

608
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 6: scale like this little slimy, garbage trash fire of a

609
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:52,360
Speaker 6: fucking firm, of course not. What their strategy was was

610
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:55,920
Speaker 6: to was to scare people through lying with abusing their

611
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 6: power as much as possible to empty out that building

612
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:04,720
Speaker 6: so there'd be no need to file eviction lawsuits and

613
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:08,440
Speaker 6: and do the bidding of their of course spaces without

614
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 6: going to court knowing they would lose. Right, So that's

615
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:15,240
Speaker 6: anybody listening, by the way, this is not like this

616
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:17,600
Speaker 6: actually isn't about course Bass or the time law firm,

617
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 6: Like this is just a strategic set of like a

618
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 6: methodology for an industry that views human beings as obstacles

619
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:30,360
Speaker 6: to profit in in a hyper commodified real estate you know,

620
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:31,320
Speaker 6: capitalist market.

621
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:32,120
Speaker 5: Like that's all this is.

622
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 6: We're just describing like like a normal process that's happening

623
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 6: at this point.

624
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, And something something we've talked about in other like

625
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:42,520
Speaker 2: tenant struggles is that, I mean one of the things

626
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:45,160
Speaker 2: that yeah, I'm not going to I'm not going to

627
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:46,960
Speaker 2: use a specific law firm of doing this, but it's

628
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 2: something we've seen in other places is like, you know,

629
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:51,520
Speaker 2: you'll get landlords who will just fire just file like

630
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:54,840
Speaker 2: mass file just illegal evictions, and they do it because

631
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 2: you know, okay, so if they get caught, like nothing

632
00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 2: happens to them, right Like, but if they don't gay cut,

633
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 2: you know this this is an enormous were people who

634
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:01,960
Speaker 2: you could just throw out and not have to go

635
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 2: through any kind of legal process with and so yeah,

636
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:08,759
Speaker 2: these like you know, like it's like this goes back

637
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:10,840
Speaker 2: to the old, the old sort of capitalism problem, right,

638
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:12,680
Speaker 2: which is like the easiest way to make money just

639
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:16,200
Speaker 2: by taking it from someone, and the second eiastest way

640
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:18,920
Speaker 2: is by is in you know, like it's like the

641
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:20,960
Speaker 2: one that's even easier than that is you is you

642
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:23,000
Speaker 2: lie to them and trick them into either trick them

643
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:24,920
Speaker 2: or intimidate them, and she's giving you the money without

644
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:29,000
Speaker 2: having to like actually fight them. H And yeah, it's

645
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:31,960
Speaker 2: you know what they're doing here, it is legal terrorism.

646
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, and I I reported Lacey Taylor to the bar.

647
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:38,360
Speaker 5: I don't know, Lacey. I'm sure you're listening to this if.

648
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:40,880
Speaker 6: You if they even notified you, But it was it

649
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:43,920
Speaker 6: was a bit frustrating because they were just like, yeah,

650
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:46,400
Speaker 6: this isn't really like we can't really do anything about this.

651
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:48,879
Speaker 6: It has to be a matter that's settled in civil court.

652
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 6: And so it's definitely frustrating. So it's like, no, like

653
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 6: this is just straight up lying. This is not like

654
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 6: an interpretation of the law. But I do think like

655
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:57,680
Speaker 6: this is as a side note, like this is the

656
00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:01,959
Speaker 6: issue with you can have like evil ass people who

657
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:05,080
Speaker 6: are trying to make people homeless in order to retenant.

658
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:07,040
Speaker 6: That's the kind of language of these these firms views.

659
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:10,600
Speaker 6: The word is retenant in the building, You're just retenanting,

660
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:12,720
Speaker 6: right like that that's the sort of real estate capitalist

661
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 6: law firm or that's the industry like language, right that,

662
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:19,319
Speaker 6: Like there's just there we got lawyers for that, right, Like,

663
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 6: we have a thing we want to do and this

664
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:22,480
Speaker 6: is just the wild West, and we just want to

665
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:24,080
Speaker 6: make a lot of money, and we just have like

666
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:27,320
Speaker 6: stacks of lawyers just on deck that we'll just pay

667
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:29,640
Speaker 6: to do this. And then you even have like these

668
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 6: state bar associations that are like, well, yeah, that's just

669
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:34,880
Speaker 6: how it is, man. Probably most likely because like on

670
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 6: the side of real estate, I guess I'm like making

671
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:39,799
Speaker 6: up this number. The eighty percent of the lawyers working

672
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 6: in real estate are on the side of landlords, and

673
00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:43,920
Speaker 6: then maybe twenty percent, probably way less than twenty two.

674
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:46,879
Speaker 7: Yeah, that's high on the side of tenants.

675
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:48,879
Speaker 6: Right, And then some of the landlord tenants sometimes will

676
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:51,759
Speaker 6: help tenants, right, so they can like brag it at

677
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:53,960
Speaker 6: their little wine and cheese things like, oh, I help

678
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 6: the people or whatever, and I donate to charities or

679
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 6: some garbage. But they at the end of the day,

680
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:01,960
Speaker 6: they're just they're happy to make people die of starvation on.

681
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:03,560
Speaker 5: The street so that somebody else can make a shit

682
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:04,160
Speaker 5: ton of money.

683
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:08,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, this has been nickeld happen here. Join us tomorrow

684
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:10,759
Speaker 2: for part two of this interview, in which the landlords

685
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:28,480
Speaker 2: do were bullshit. Welcome to Dinick had appen here a

686
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:32,400
Speaker 2: podcast about landlords doing bullshit and how you can stop them. Today,

687
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,200
Speaker 2: we're continuing our interview with two tenants in California fighting

688
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:40,440
Speaker 2: a massive diction by landlord Ghouls Core spaces Enjoy. Yeah,

689
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:42,640
Speaker 2: something else I wanted to ask about that I'd heard

690
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 2: about was like harassment from the guards and the fact

691
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:49,600
Speaker 2: that there suddenly started being security guards after this started.

692
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:53,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, either you want to talk about that a bit.

693
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 3: I yeah, I would love to talk about that. So

694
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:02,160
Speaker 3: I have lived here for almost three years. We did

695
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:05,400
Speaker 3: have security. I want to say it was saturdays between

696
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:09,160
Speaker 3: It was one security guard for all four buildings Saturdays

697
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:14,040
Speaker 3: between eleven pm and like three four am, just just

698
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:16,840
Speaker 3: one security guard that will walk around just during that time.

699
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:22,440
Speaker 3: Since course Basis has purchased the property, we have two

700
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:27,680
Speaker 3: to four twenty four to seven security guards. I know

701
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:33,799
Speaker 3: they're they're really They've made me personally super fucking uncomfortable.

702
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:36,960
Speaker 3: I've had them ask me where I live, Like when

703
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:40,360
Speaker 3: I'm going around canvassing right trying to get flyers people's stores,

704
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:43,279
Speaker 3: let them know like, hey, this is these are the

705
00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:46,480
Speaker 3: actual facts. Stuff like that they've asked me like where,

706
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:51,800
Speaker 3: what building do you live in? What's your name? Creepy things,

707
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:54,719
Speaker 3: And I'm like, I'm not gonna tell you that I

708
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:59,440
Speaker 3: have no idea who you are. They walk past our

709
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:03,720
Speaker 3: apartment constantly. It's every time I go outside, they're waiting

710
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:08,880
Speaker 3: right outside the building. They're taking photos of the things

711
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:12,200
Speaker 3: across the buildings, like like stuff outside of people's units.

712
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:19,440
Speaker 3: It's really uncomfortable, and it's kind of telling because it's like, well,

713
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:23,080
Speaker 3: we never need a security before. Oh, but but once

714
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:25,960
Speaker 3: you bought the building and wanted to kick everyone out, Oh,

715
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:28,760
Speaker 3: all of a sudden, you're you're you know, you're hiring

716
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:33,839
Speaker 3: these random people, which I will also add one of

717
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:37,319
Speaker 3: our neighbors talk to one of the security guards. He

718
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:41,359
Speaker 3: worked there for a day and was like, yeah, they

719
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 3: lowered my pay to like minimum wage. I'm not going Yeah, yeah,

720
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:47,239
Speaker 3: he literally don't.

721
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:57,319
Speaker 6: Maybe we should try to like help unionize. Yes, cources,

722
00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 6: you guys are such a Mark li and Chris Richards,

723
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:04,640
Speaker 6: you guys are the cheapest, stummiest human being planet.

724
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:08,239
Speaker 3: Right, And and he was like, yeah, I'm leaving, like

725
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:12,680
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna do this, this is stupid. But usually

726
00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:14,480
Speaker 3: when I go out, you know. I mean for the

727
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:17,440
Speaker 3: most part, they're usually just sitting on their phone, standing

728
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:20,000
Speaker 3: in front of the entrance, locking the doors.

729
00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:20,680
Speaker 4: Against normal cops.

730
00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:22,839
Speaker 3: Stuff like that kind of Yeah.

731
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:27,839
Speaker 8: Well with yeah, well the standing around part of the

732
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:31,080
Speaker 8: cop chop so far, hopefully not the other part of

733
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 8: the cop chop where they yeah.

734
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:37,560
Speaker 3: Minus any credentials. Basically not that I want cops here either,

735
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:43,280
Speaker 3: but but yeah, it's been in my own personal opinion,

736
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:47,439
Speaker 3: it's harassing behavior, you know, and it's in and I've

737
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:52,399
Speaker 3: talked to so many tenants here, especially again the more

738
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:56,440
Speaker 3: marginalized tenants. I'm not going to like specify them, but

739
00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 3: they're very intimidated by them, and they actually do think

740
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:03,000
Speaker 3: they are cops. They don't know that. No, these aren't

741
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:07,319
Speaker 3: police officers. They aren't trying to. They don't have the

742
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:09,600
Speaker 3: power to do certain things that you may be afraid of.

743
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:14,400
Speaker 2: Are they like, are they like in like like policy uniforms.

744
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:17,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, no, they have. Yeah, they have security uniforms.

745
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:23,520
Speaker 3: They have tasers on them. They they they like to

746
00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:24,440
Speaker 3: direct their power.

747
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's probably not similar enough to be able to get

748
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:30,400
Speaker 2: them on a person, to get a police officer, but

749
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:35,239
Speaker 2: it's still really depressing that. Yeah, I don't know.

750
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:38,759
Speaker 6: But but and again, and the strategy is to get

751
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:40,880
Speaker 6: to it's to scare the ship out of people say.

752
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:42,320
Speaker 9: Yeah, it's just terror.

753
00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:46,680
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, it's it's uncomfortable. It's uncomfortable when you go

754
00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:49,200
Speaker 3: out of your apartment and there's just some random person

755
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:51,719
Speaker 3: with a taser just like right next to you, and

756
00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:55,279
Speaker 3: you're like, uh, I'm just trying to go check my mailbox,

757
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:56,680
Speaker 3: Like what the what the hell?

758
00:40:57,840 --> 00:40:58,200
Speaker 5: Yeah?

759
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:01,960
Speaker 6: Yeah, well you guys are safer though, right, So that

760
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:05,480
Speaker 6: like that stuff happened like if a like if like

761
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:08,839
Speaker 6: if an evil landlord and their slimy, scummy evil law

762
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:11,239
Speaker 6: team were to try to like put you guys under

763
00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:13,400
Speaker 6: the streets, the security guards would come and defend you

764
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:13,839
Speaker 6: against them.

765
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 4: Right.

766
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:17,640
Speaker 5: Oh wait, no, I am I mixed up.

767
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:20,920
Speaker 6: Oh they're here to serve the evil people trying to

768
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 6: put you on the streets.

769
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:23,680
Speaker 5: Oh that's minimum.

770
00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:28,880
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean that's the sad thing too, is that

771
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:31,000
Speaker 6: that the security guards are probably going to get renevicted

772
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:34,399
Speaker 6: by like the Homeboys of the Core Spaces executives at

773
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:38,040
Speaker 6: some point, right, Like yeah, uh, they're they're going to

774
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:40,600
Speaker 6: get renovicted. Somebody is going to look at their wherever

775
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:42,840
Speaker 6: they're living as a as a low performing asset that

776
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:44,359
Speaker 6: needs to be retenanted and ship.

777
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:48,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, so yeah, I don't. So that's fun. That's cool.

778
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:53,359
Speaker 3: I don't I don't blame I know, I understand the job.

779
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:55,799
Speaker 3: I don't blame them. I guess as individuals, well, some

780
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:58,000
Speaker 3: of them, I do, because they're clearly on power trips.

781
00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:03,399
Speaker 3: They like to enforce their power. But I do understand

782
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:08,480
Speaker 3: that they are being hired outside to do a job.

783
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:14,000
Speaker 3: But it's it's really not fun. I couldn't imagine ever, Yeah,

784
00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 3: doing that myself, I wouldn't feel right. But I don't know.

785
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:21,200
Speaker 3: You know, everyone, we're all suffering right like that. You know,

786
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:24,440
Speaker 3: we're all trying to survive. So I try not to

787
00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:26,960
Speaker 3: judge too much, but I can't help it. When you

788
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:30,000
Speaker 3: know they're taking photos inside the windows of my apartment,

789
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:31,920
Speaker 3: it's sucking creepy, like.

790
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:35,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, pretty creepy.

791
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:37,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess.

792
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 2: Okay, is there anything else that you two want to

793
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:41,160
Speaker 2: specifically wanted to talk about.

794
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 6: Let's see, we got the beginning, so we got the

795
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:46,920
Speaker 6: law passed, and then we got the slimy.

796
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:48,520
Speaker 5: Tie.

797
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:54,280
Speaker 6: Taylor Fox Howard, LLP, Garbage Law Firm, came along. Well, okay,

798
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:56,759
Speaker 6: so one one thing that's been a struggle, and I

799
00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:58,759
Speaker 6: would say, like Sam and a couple others have been

800
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:02,960
Speaker 6: it's just nuts to me, like how much stamina. Well no, actually,

801
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:05,719
Speaker 6: let me say this, like, uh so I am. I

802
00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:07,560
Speaker 6: am a mental professional, which I don't like to say

803
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:09,440
Speaker 6: in organizing spaces a lot because I don't like to

804
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:10,439
Speaker 6: mix up the role too much.

805
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:13,480
Speaker 5: But like, straight up, everybody I talk to in.

806
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:16,400
Speaker 6: These situations, like in the role of like tenant organizer,

807
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:20,360
Speaker 6: not not like therapists. It's just everything reeks of PTSD symptoms,

808
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:23,480
Speaker 6: Like straight up, like people can't sleep, people are hyper vigilant.

809
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:26,200
Speaker 6: They're going out to their car and they're looking around

810
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:28,520
Speaker 6: to see if there's a security guard. They're in constant fear,

811
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:32,279
Speaker 6: they're confused there, you know, their their startle responses up,

812
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:34,120
Speaker 6: which is which is hyper vigulous. I mean there's literally

813
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:36,279
Speaker 6: you can pick up a fucking ds M five and

814
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:40,319
Speaker 6: look at the definition of PTSD and I would say, uh,

815
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:42,080
Speaker 6: I can't say everyone. I haven't talked to everyone in

816
00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:45,000
Speaker 6: the building, but I mean this process creates fucking PTSD.

817
00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:48,000
Speaker 6: Like I'm not exaggerating, I'm not making this up. And

818
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:50,279
Speaker 6: also because the mental health fields, as a side note,

819
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:53,879
Speaker 6: is such a like neoliberal, individualistic, fucking trash fire. It's

820
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:56,239
Speaker 6: hard to actually look at this correctly to say like

821
00:43:56,960 --> 00:43:58,719
Speaker 6: this is this is like a mass like trauma of it.

822
00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:01,600
Speaker 6: But despite the mass rama that everybody experiences with this,

823
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:04,800
Speaker 6: the resilience in it of being like Okay, we're still.

824
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:06,040
Speaker 5: Going to go out and we're going to flyer and

825
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:06,920
Speaker 5: we're going to knock.

826
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:09,680
Speaker 6: On doors and so like, there's been this phase, like

827
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:12,480
Speaker 6: a two part kind of phase, which has been continuing

828
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:14,719
Speaker 6: to talk to the county supervisors to try to get

829
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:17,239
Speaker 6: them to pass a stronger law because there's kind of

830
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:20,520
Speaker 6: this race now where if and when course Spaces gets permits,

831
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:25,160
Speaker 6: then they can send out like actually proper notices, although

832
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:27,359
Speaker 6: maybe there'll be problems of the notices and that can

833
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 6: be addressed or whatever, but like it is, it is

834
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:32,719
Speaker 6: kind of just buying time, right if they if they

835
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:34,879
Speaker 6: get permits and then they try to evict everybody, then

836
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:40,160
Speaker 6: then then there's the actual sixty day uh like countdown,

837
00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:43,839
Speaker 6: I guess, depending depending on a lot of different factors. Right,

838
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:47,000
Speaker 6: But so the county one of the supervisors said, you know,

839
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 6: I want to I want to make like the most

840
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:52,320
Speaker 6: gruesome speed bump to you know, to speed bump is

841
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:54,719
Speaker 6: eviction for core spaces. And so what they did is

842
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:56,480
Speaker 6: it is a big speed bump, but it actually doesn't

843
00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:58,600
Speaker 6: like solve the problem. Would solve the problem is either

844
00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:01,000
Speaker 6: a no fault eviction more toorium, which is be like

845
00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:04,480
Speaker 6: really broad. We're not sure how how what the chances

846
00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:07,040
Speaker 6: are getting them to pass that. But another thing would

847
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:09,200
Speaker 6: be it's usually called right to return, but we're calling

848
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:10,759
Speaker 6: it right to re rent because right to return, I

849
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:12,920
Speaker 6: guess is a thing that like I don't know, I

850
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:14,800
Speaker 6: don't know, like Ziona say or something I don't know.

851
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:17,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a whole right r right.

852
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:18,640
Speaker 6: So so, but right to re rent, which is like

853
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:21,560
Speaker 6: a thing that is in several other other cities and counties,

854
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:24,520
Speaker 6: which just means like if the landlord legitimately needs to

855
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:28,040
Speaker 6: make renovations because of like safety, inhabitability concerns or whatever,

856
00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:31,440
Speaker 6: they have to relook relocate the tenant temporarily, and then

857
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:34,680
Speaker 6: they they have to re rent to the tenant for

858
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:35,480
Speaker 6: what we were.

859
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:36,400
Speaker 5: Asking is the same rent.

860
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:39,480
Speaker 6: We also think that like using the using the ten

861
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:43,000
Speaker 6: percent a year framework would be fine, like relocate them

862
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:44,520
Speaker 6: and then raise it by ten percent if you didn't

863
00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:46,839
Speaker 6: already once that year, right, just just treat it as

864
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:50,120
Speaker 6: a normal thing. Like so if we get them to

865
00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:52,360
Speaker 6: pass that law, then they can divict anybody.

866
00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:52,719
Speaker 8: Right.

867
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:54,800
Speaker 6: So on the one hand, we're like really trying to

868
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:58,160
Speaker 6: get the supervisors to do this, and it's just sort

869
00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:01,239
Speaker 6: of it's just unknown, like how how likely we are

870
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:05,319
Speaker 6: on that in this moment. But then simultaneously we need

871
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:08,040
Speaker 6: to continue kind of like educating the tenants on like

872
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:12,840
Speaker 6: on their rights because they keep like as of today,

873
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:21,000
Speaker 6: management started illegally in a racist way, targeting Spanish speaking

874
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:26,239
Speaker 6: Latino tenants telling them that that they have to pick

875
00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 6: up their checks right now. And Sam, you can correct

876
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:29,319
Speaker 6: it from but it's like you have to pick up

877
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:32,480
Speaker 6: your checks by today, I don't know, like next week

878
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:32,920
Speaker 6: or something.

879
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:34,120
Speaker 5: It's like really soon or.

880
00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:37,160
Speaker 6: Otherwise, like you don't get your relocation money and then

881
00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:39,319
Speaker 6: you're going to get into viction lawsuit and course space

882
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:41,880
Speaker 6: is already as permits. Just making up all the like

883
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:43,560
Speaker 6: all these things are lies. None of them they're true.

884
00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:46,000
Speaker 3: I was just gonna say I'm white, so I actually

885
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:49,400
Speaker 3: didn't get that notice. But you are correct the Latina

886
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:50,200
Speaker 3: families take get that.

887
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:53,799
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, because course spaces are racist and John Tyne

888
00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:56,160
Speaker 6: is a racist, and Lacy Taylor's a racist, and they're

889
00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:59,360
Speaker 6: fucking evil pieces of shit. And I'm glad they're listening

890
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:02,120
Speaker 6: to this quote me as many fucking times as they

891
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:05,879
Speaker 6: want in any context. But so having to like try

892
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:10,200
Speaker 6: to counter those all that disinformation, all those lies is

893
00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:12,640
Speaker 6: like this constant, like parallel process, like trying to get

894
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:14,880
Speaker 6: the county to do stuff, but trying to get people

895
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:17,640
Speaker 6: to like understand like, no, they're lying to you, right,

896
00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:19,680
Speaker 6: like while they're in this like chronic state of kind

897
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:21,960
Speaker 6: of like PTSD, They're like where am I going to go?

898
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:23,320
Speaker 5: What am I going to do? What's happening?

899
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:25,640
Speaker 6: And it's hard for them to know who to trust

900
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:28,640
Speaker 6: because they're being pummeled with disinformation and lies from people

901
00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:29,719
Speaker 6: with a lot of power over them.

902
00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:34,120
Speaker 5: I don't know if you had anything else. Sorry, I

903
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:35,000
Speaker 5: kind of went off there.

904
00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:40,840
Speaker 3: No, you're you're fine, It's yeah, that's that's kind of

905
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:43,839
Speaker 3: the way I see it as well. I guess what

906
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:46,920
Speaker 3: I would add is if the county doesn't do something,

907
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:53,120
Speaker 3: this is going to be horrible for the entire county

908
00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:55,319
Speaker 3: of Santa rab Brah, but just California in general. I mean,

909
00:47:55,360 --> 00:47:57,000
Speaker 3: you have to think of two one hundred and forty

910
00:47:57,040 --> 00:47:59,600
Speaker 3: plus units, fifty whatever. We don't even know how many units.

911
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:04,400
Speaker 3: There's so many units here, it's like it's insane. If

912
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:06,960
Speaker 3: this is going to be so bad, where are these

913
00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:10,680
Speaker 3: people going to go? If Santa Barbara has a from

914
00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:13,439
Speaker 3: what I've heard, a one to two percent vacancy rate,

915
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:17,600
Speaker 3: these these these people have, including me as a person

916
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:20,239
Speaker 3: living here, have nowhere to go, I'm I will be

917
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:23,320
Speaker 3: entirely forced out of the county. Me and my partner,

918
00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:26,120
Speaker 3: who holds a job here. He works as a delivery driver.

919
00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:29,080
Speaker 3: He likes his job. It doesn't pay great, doesn't have

920
00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:32,320
Speaker 3: good benefits, but he enjoys it and he's an important

921
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:36,960
Speaker 3: part of the community. And if all of these human

922
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 3: beings are forced out of here, what is that going

923
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:42,200
Speaker 3: to do to Santa Barbara? Are you know who's going

924
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:45,560
Speaker 3: to who are going to be, the teachers, the healthcare professionals,

925
00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:53,239
Speaker 3: the everything. I will say in addition to that, this

926
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:57,360
Speaker 3: is why we formed Course Basis Tenants Association with the

927
00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:03,000
Speaker 3: help of SBTU, so that we can not only stay

928
00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:07,520
Speaker 3: together and work together as a union to fight this,

929
00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:11,320
Speaker 3: but also what course Spaces will likely do in the future.

930
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:14,960
Speaker 3: So we actually learned from the Santa Barbara Independent. They

931
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:18,640
Speaker 3: interviewed one of the I think was one of the

932
00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:22,759
Speaker 3: Course Basis representatives who said this was they've done this

933
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:27,080
Speaker 3: forty six times and this is the first time they

934
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:31,799
Speaker 3: ever got this level of community outreach, which I was like,

935
00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:38,000
Speaker 3: excuse me, what what we know that their executives are

936
00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:43,840
Speaker 3: They've previously worked for Goldman, Sachs and Blackstone, and to

937
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:47,120
Speaker 3: find out they've done this forty at least forty six

938
00:49:47,239 --> 00:49:53,360
Speaker 3: other times and just gotten away with it. Now, we're

939
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:56,680
Speaker 3: not going to keep letting that happen. And so whatever

940
00:49:56,719 --> 00:50:00,560
Speaker 3: happens here at CBC in the sweeps are four bill things.

941
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:03,000
Speaker 3: However it turns out, and hopefully it turns out in

942
00:50:03,040 --> 00:50:07,839
Speaker 3: our favor, We're not going to stop because they are

943
00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:13,160
Speaker 3: further They're just going to keep continuing this and it's

944
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:17,880
Speaker 3: we it's disgusting. We can't keep letting this shit happen.

945
00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:21,320
Speaker 3: Like someone needs to stop it. It needs to be stopped.

946
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:24,960
Speaker 3: And if I hope that we can get legislation to

947
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:27,239
Speaker 3: stop it, but if not, we're going to be a

948
00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:32,880
Speaker 3: fighting force and we're not yeah, we're not stopping hell yeah.

949
00:50:32,920 --> 00:50:34,680
Speaker 6: Oh and then I guess like, yeah, I don't think

950
00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:36,840
Speaker 6: you really said this, but like if any other tenants

951
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:39,960
Speaker 6: that are you know, course Space as tenants wanted to

952
00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:43,520
Speaker 6: join Sam and her neighbors, right, Like that's that was

953
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:46,280
Speaker 6: like you're saying Sam, Like the point was to create

954
00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:48,319
Speaker 6: something like they could have They could have named it

955
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:50,680
Speaker 6: as more of a local thing like there their tendant Association,

956
00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:54,080
Speaker 6: but they chose Course Spaces as the company name. Right,

957
00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:56,120
Speaker 6: So like and if you're in Arizona, if you're in Tennessee,

958
00:50:56,160 --> 00:50:58,879
Speaker 6: if you're in Seattle, Seattle or whatever, and you are

959
00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:01,160
Speaker 6: people getting rid of it did by these people or

960
00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:03,160
Speaker 6: or I don't know, you're just students like renting by

961
00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:05,759
Speaker 6: the bed and they won't fix stuff or whatever, like

962
00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:09,160
Speaker 6: you can join the course basis. Then association this very

963
00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:12,640
Speaker 6: well could be like a national level organization. Like right

964
00:51:12,680 --> 00:51:14,279
Speaker 6: now it's local, but it's been set up to be

965
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:17,359
Speaker 6: something that could be potentially national or international. Of course

966
00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:20,120
Speaker 6: Bass wants to go you know, Capital and those now boarders,

967
00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:22,200
Speaker 6: so they want to go fuck people up in other countries.

968
00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:27,600
Speaker 5: Then you know, we can pay more interpreters I.

969
00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:32,239
Speaker 2: Guess yeah, And I guess that's the thing I wanted

970
00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:35,799
Speaker 2: to close on is like, you know, tennants unions are

971
00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:40,040
Speaker 2: not composed of like some kind of like like special

972
00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:43,600
Speaker 2: group of people, right, They're just people, right, Like I

973
00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:46,319
Speaker 2: did it back what I was doing stuff right, and

974
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:49,359
Speaker 2: like it's just it's just composed of random people. And

975
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:53,680
Speaker 2: like that random person could very easily be you. And

976
00:51:53,719 --> 00:51:55,920
Speaker 2: you know, yeah, so you're saying, like someone has to

977
00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:58,520
Speaker 2: stop these people, and if it's not going to be that,

978
00:51:58,920 --> 00:52:00,960
Speaker 2: it's not going to be you. The tenants fighting them

979
00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:03,080
Speaker 2: like no one, no one is ever going to and

980
00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:04,920
Speaker 2: they're just going to keep running people over forever.

981
00:52:06,080 --> 00:52:08,000
Speaker 5: And politicians just aren't going to do this. I mean

982
00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:09,280
Speaker 5: acted really.

983
00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:13,239
Speaker 6: Quickly because of the like show of force from right,

984
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:15,560
Speaker 6: so they get like a cover from the constituency. We're like, oh,

985
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:17,200
Speaker 6: we're allowed to do this, Like we can do this,

986
00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:19,719
Speaker 6: and or we're terrified of what will happen, like will

987
00:52:19,719 --> 00:52:22,879
Speaker 6: this be like another police station burnt down if we

988
00:52:23,040 --> 00:52:25,239
Speaker 6: pissed them off or something? Right, Like you actually have

989
00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:28,160
Speaker 6: to sort of like make the politicians afraid of you.

990
00:52:28,280 --> 00:52:29,839
Speaker 6: I mean you want to be their friends and stuff too.

991
00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:31,640
Speaker 6: I'm not very good at that. I'm good at like

992
00:52:31,719 --> 00:52:33,360
Speaker 6: scaring them, I guess, but like you have to like

993
00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:35,080
Speaker 6: kind of scare them into acting. You have to like

994
00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:37,759
Speaker 6: discipline the politicians in acting. So anybody that's like we

995
00:52:37,880 --> 00:52:40,560
Speaker 6: just see more policies, it's like policies don't just happen, Like.

996
00:52:40,640 --> 00:52:44,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, like the the like the Center burd people, It's like, yeah,

997
00:52:44,440 --> 00:52:46,200
Speaker 2: they acted quickly when they were forced to. But you know,

998
00:52:46,239 --> 00:52:48,799
Speaker 2: they could have literally at any time in the entire

999
00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:50,840
Speaker 2: history of Santa Barbara, they could have just passed this,

1000
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:54,280
Speaker 2: and they didn't until until you came for them.

1001
00:52:54,880 --> 00:52:59,719
Speaker 3: Right exactly, Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I think you're right

1002
00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:03,520
Speaker 3: about out like the Tennants Association, the Tennis Association being

1003
00:53:03,719 --> 00:53:07,840
Speaker 3: just we're random tenants. I'm not some politician, I'm not

1004
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:12,400
Speaker 3: some leader. I'm a student, you know. I usually just

1005
00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:15,800
Speaker 3: spend my nights making dinner with my cats, watching Jeopardy,

1006
00:53:16,040 --> 00:53:21,359
Speaker 3: Like I don't do this. But the point being is

1007
00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:24,120
Speaker 3: when you come together as a group, you have power

1008
00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:29,879
Speaker 3: in numbers. And although I have faith that we will

1009
00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:35,280
Speaker 3: win against score spaces for our complex, even if we don't,

1010
00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:39,680
Speaker 3: we've left a huge mark and we've helped so many

1011
00:53:39,719 --> 00:53:45,600
Speaker 3: residents of Santa Barbara County. For maybe landlords that we're

1012
00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:48,440
Speaker 3: planning to change the stove out and not get permits,

1013
00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:50,440
Speaker 3: Well now they have to find a reason to get

1014
00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:54,240
Speaker 3: a permit. We've at least done that, but I think

1015
00:53:54,360 --> 00:53:59,239
Speaker 3: there's a lot more that we will do and can

1016
00:53:59,360 --> 00:54:05,640
Speaker 3: do actually against course spaces and their future endeavors their

1017
00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:08,480
Speaker 3: properties they decide that they want to overpay.

1018
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:12,680
Speaker 6: For, yeah, I will throw out. Like one other resource

1019
00:54:12,680 --> 00:54:15,960
Speaker 6: that is like a group that's called the Autonomous Tenants

1020
00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:19,040
Speaker 6: Union Network, which is a network that SB two is

1021
00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:22,480
Speaker 6: a part of. Just if you are if you're in

1022
00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:26,000
Speaker 6: attendance union or you're interested in tenant organizing from anything.

1023
00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:29,280
Speaker 5: You've heard, they are there. It's like a network.

1024
00:54:29,800 --> 00:54:32,080
Speaker 6: Like the word autonomous again is like it's people who

1025
00:54:32,120 --> 00:54:36,520
Speaker 6: are sort of independent of various like you know, like nonprofits,

1026
00:54:36,520 --> 00:54:39,759
Speaker 6: foundations and governments just be sort of responsive just to

1027
00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:43,560
Speaker 6: tenants themselves. So I'm not like a representative of the

1028
00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:47,240
Speaker 6: group or au tuned, but it's a really strong network

1029
00:54:47,239 --> 00:54:50,640
Speaker 6: of really experienced organizers that are really intent on these

1030
00:54:50,680 --> 00:54:52,760
Speaker 6: kinds of things, right like forming like there's a crisis

1031
00:54:53,160 --> 00:54:57,799
Speaker 6: former tenant association, like organize your whole block, like get

1032
00:54:57,800 --> 00:54:59,640
Speaker 6: the politician to do a thing, go on rent.

1033
00:54:59,520 --> 00:55:01,960
Speaker 5: Strike like whatever. Right, this more sort of militant, like

1034
00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:03,160
Speaker 5: we desperate.

1035
00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:08,200
Speaker 6: Crisis requires us to you know, to meet the crisis

1036
00:55:08,200 --> 00:55:09,600
Speaker 6: where it's at and act that way.

1037
00:55:09,680 --> 00:55:09,839
Speaker 5: Right.

1038
00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:12,440
Speaker 6: So, and there's other resources and I'm sure you can

1039
00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:14,920
Speaker 6: have like show notes and stuff, you can have links.

1040
00:55:14,640 --> 00:55:17,680
Speaker 2: But yeah, other places specifically people can go if they

1041
00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:19,960
Speaker 2: want to help the struggle specifically.

1042
00:55:20,680 --> 00:55:25,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, so for core spaces Tenet Association, the social media

1043
00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:29,120
Speaker 3: handle is all core spaces t A. That that would

1044
00:55:29,160 --> 00:55:34,200
Speaker 3: be for Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, and TikTok. We have a

1045
00:55:34,200 --> 00:55:37,000
Speaker 3: go fundme going as well, just to pay for things

1046
00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:40,279
Speaker 3: like you know, food for events or I don't know,

1047
00:55:40,360 --> 00:55:46,960
Speaker 3: printing paper, flyering stuff like that. We also have an

1048
00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:50,560
Speaker 3: email that anyone can reach us at at core spaces

1049
00:55:50,600 --> 00:55:53,120
Speaker 3: TA at gmail dot com.

1050
00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:54,239
Speaker 2: And we will we will put all of that in

1051
00:55:54,280 --> 00:55:54,880
Speaker 2: the show notes.

1052
00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:56,359
Speaker 3: Sounds good.

1053
00:55:57,000 --> 00:56:00,000
Speaker 2: Thank you to so much for coming on, and yeah,

1054
00:56:00,239 --> 00:56:01,440
Speaker 2: go beat these sons of bitches.

1055
00:56:02,760 --> 00:56:05,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, let us swear.

1056
00:56:05,480 --> 00:56:10,560
Speaker 3: We're definitely making their lives a lot harder than they expected,

1057
00:56:10,680 --> 00:56:11,799
Speaker 3: which is kind of cool.

1058
00:56:12,040 --> 00:56:15,359
Speaker 2: But yeah, yes, let's been make it up in here,

1059
00:56:15,400 --> 00:56:18,520
Speaker 2: and yeah, you too can go make your landlords days

1060
00:56:18,560 --> 00:56:20,360
Speaker 2: worse and you and your day's better.

1061
00:56:36,040 --> 00:56:38,960
Speaker 9: Hello, welcome, this is what could happen here, and I

1062
00:56:39,000 --> 00:56:42,919
Speaker 9: am Sharene. Today I'm here to talk to you about, well,

1063
00:56:43,360 --> 00:56:47,400
Speaker 9: you guessed it, Palestine, but today is going to be

1064
00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:50,200
Speaker 9: a little different. I actually want to talk about olive

1065
00:56:50,239 --> 00:56:55,240
Speaker 9: trees and how the olive tree came to symbolize Palestinian

1066
00:56:55,400 --> 00:56:59,319
Speaker 9: national identity. The olive tree is not just symbolic as

1067
00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:02,839
Speaker 9: a symbolized their national identity, but the roots of it

1068
00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:07,040
Speaker 9: are far deeper pun intended. So let's get into it.

1069
00:57:07,840 --> 00:57:12,359
Speaker 9: Olive trees feature prominently in Palestinian art and literature as

1070
00:57:12,400 --> 00:57:17,439
Speaker 9: symbols of steadfastness amid a life of displacement. Palestinian olive

1071
00:57:17,480 --> 00:57:21,000
Speaker 9: trees are yet another target, however, for Israeli settlers and

1072
00:57:21,080 --> 00:57:24,360
Speaker 9: the IDF. And this is why I wanted to talk

1073
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:28,520
Speaker 9: about this, because there's so much talk in Zionism about

1074
00:57:28,520 --> 00:57:31,840
Speaker 9: how sacred the land of Palestine is, how sacred their

1075
00:57:31,960 --> 00:57:35,440
Speaker 9: land is, the land that I will call Palestine, and

1076
00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:38,600
Speaker 9: how this land belongs to only them, the chosen people.

1077
00:57:39,800 --> 00:57:42,760
Speaker 9: But these chosen people are the same ones desecrating the

1078
00:57:42,840 --> 00:57:46,520
Speaker 9: land and quite literally pulling out trees from their roots,

1079
00:57:47,240 --> 00:57:50,880
Speaker 9: trees that have been there for centuries, been part of

1080
00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:55,120
Speaker 9: that land for centuries. I've never been able to reconcile

1081
00:57:55,320 --> 00:57:59,360
Speaker 9: that with what Zionism pretends to be. That they respect

1082
00:57:59,480 --> 00:58:02,920
Speaker 9: anything at all, not even the land they supposedly belong to.

1083
00:58:03,840 --> 00:58:05,840
Speaker 9: And it's just something I always think about when I

1084
00:58:05,880 --> 00:58:09,760
Speaker 9: read reports about olive trees being uprooted or chopped down.

1085
00:58:10,560 --> 00:58:14,560
Speaker 9: Isn't that the land you pretend to love? What could

1086
00:58:14,600 --> 00:58:19,720
Speaker 9: possibly be the Zionist rationale behind destroying the nature of

1087
00:58:19,760 --> 00:58:25,080
Speaker 9: that land. The olive tree encapsulates the Palestinian identity. It

1088
00:58:25,160 --> 00:58:29,000
Speaker 9: roots an entire nation to a land and livelihood lost

1089
00:58:29,000 --> 00:58:32,960
Speaker 9: to occupation, while serving as a potent symbol of resistance

1090
00:58:33,080 --> 00:58:38,520
Speaker 9: against the territorial encroachment of illegal settlements. The Mediterranean climate

1091
00:58:38,640 --> 00:58:42,760
Speaker 9: is pretty balmy, and olive trees have for centuries provided

1092
00:58:42,800 --> 00:58:45,720
Speaker 9: a steady source of income from both the sale of

1093
00:58:45,760 --> 00:58:49,680
Speaker 9: their fruit and their silky golden oil derived from the

1094
00:58:49,720 --> 00:58:54,160
Speaker 9: fruit aka olive oil. The land around the Sea of Galilee,

1095
00:58:54,320 --> 00:58:58,200
Speaker 9: which is an enclosed sea in the northeast region of Palestine,

1096
00:58:58,640 --> 00:59:02,600
Speaker 9: was once the world's most important olive region. The area

1097
00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:06,400
Speaker 9: was the site of the earliest olive cultivation dating back

1098
00:59:06,440 --> 00:59:10,439
Speaker 9: to five thousand BC. And this is just a fun

1099
00:59:10,480 --> 00:59:13,400
Speaker 9: fact that I thought was interesting, but southern Spain and

1100
00:59:13,560 --> 00:59:18,040
Speaker 9: southeastern Italy are now the biggest olive oil producing regions.

1101
00:59:18,720 --> 00:59:22,600
Speaker 9: To this day, between eighty thousand and one hundred thousand

1102
00:59:22,600 --> 00:59:26,160
Speaker 9: families in the Palestinian territories rely on olives and their

1103
00:59:26,200 --> 00:59:30,480
Speaker 9: oil as primary or secondary sources of income. The industry

1104
00:59:30,520 --> 00:59:34,480
Speaker 9: accounts for about seventy percent of local fruit production and

1105
00:59:34,640 --> 00:59:39,400
Speaker 9: contributes about fourteen percent to the local economy. The trees

1106
00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:43,360
Speaker 9: have been a target for violence and vandalism in Palestine

1107
00:59:43,480 --> 00:59:47,960
Speaker 9: for decades, which is nothing new, but this is also

1108
00:59:48,080 --> 00:59:53,240
Speaker 9: compounding the already damaging effects of climate change. While other

1109
00:59:53,320 --> 00:59:57,000
Speaker 9: farmers around the world can work to adapt their cultivation

1110
00:59:57,160 --> 01:00:02,480
Speaker 9: practices to a warming climate, Palestinians lack regular access to

1111
01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:06,360
Speaker 9: their olive groves and is coupled with increasingly violet attacks

1112
01:00:06,400 --> 01:00:09,760
Speaker 9: on the trees and the farmers themselves, and all of

1113
01:00:09,800 --> 01:00:13,520
Speaker 9: this spells out just a grim future for their historic

1114
01:00:13,600 --> 01:00:18,960
Speaker 9: way of life. An olive press owner in Palestine, Abuid, said,

1115
01:00:19,480 --> 01:00:22,680
Speaker 9: climate change and the occupation are making our job more

1116
01:00:22,680 --> 01:00:26,680
Speaker 9: difficult than it already is. He owns several dunams of

1117
01:00:26,760 --> 01:00:31,920
Speaker 9: land in the inaccessible seam zone. He said, bitter olives.

1118
01:00:32,360 --> 01:00:36,800
Speaker 9: That is our present, that will be our future. Palestinian

1119
01:00:36,880 --> 01:00:40,760
Speaker 9: farmers are also often restricted by Israeli authorities from accessing

1120
01:00:40,760 --> 01:00:44,240
Speaker 9: their lands that are close to settlements or the separation Wall.

1121
01:00:45,000 --> 01:00:47,640
Speaker 9: In twenty twenty one, the International Committee of the Red

1122
01:00:47,680 --> 01:00:52,960
Speaker 9: Cross said for years the ICRCA has observed a seasonal

1123
01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:56,840
Speaker 9: peak in violence by Israeli settlers residing in certain settlements

1124
01:00:56,880 --> 01:01:00,880
Speaker 9: and outposts in the West Bank toward Palestine farms and

1125
01:01:00,920 --> 01:01:03,520
Speaker 9: their property in the period leading up to the olive

1126
01:01:03,560 --> 01:01:07,160
Speaker 9: harvest season, as well as during the harvest season itself

1127
01:01:07,200 --> 01:01:10,720
Speaker 9: in October and November, and that quote was said by

1128
01:01:10,720 --> 01:01:15,400
Speaker 9: Els Debouff, the head of ICRC's mission in Jerusalem. They

1129
01:01:15,400 --> 01:01:19,400
Speaker 9: went on to say farmers also experience acts of harassment

1130
01:01:19,480 --> 01:01:23,280
Speaker 9: and violence that aim at preventing a successful harvest, not

1131
01:01:23,400 --> 01:01:27,480
Speaker 9: to mention the destruction of farming equipment or the uprooting

1132
01:01:27,560 --> 01:01:32,120
Speaker 9: and burning of olive trees. The olive harvest season, which

1133
01:01:32,200 --> 01:01:36,720
Speaker 9: runs between October and November, is a lifeline for again

1134
01:01:36,880 --> 01:01:40,320
Speaker 9: about eighty thousand to one hundred thousand Palestinian families in

1135
01:01:40,320 --> 01:01:44,720
Speaker 9: the occupied West Bank. Since nineteen sixty seven, more than

1136
01:01:44,800 --> 01:01:49,160
Speaker 9: eight hundred thousand Palestinian olive trees have been illegally uprooted

1137
01:01:49,240 --> 01:01:54,680
Speaker 9: by Israeli authority. In August twenty twenty one alone, more

1138
01:01:54,720 --> 01:01:59,120
Speaker 9: than nine thousand olive trees were removed, and on February

1139
01:01:59,240 --> 01:02:02,600
Speaker 9: ninth of twenty two, twenty fifty olive trees were forcibly

1140
01:02:02,680 --> 01:02:07,000
Speaker 9: uprooted and destroyed in the occupied West Bank region of Selfet.

1141
01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:11,360
Speaker 9: For the past several years, when the olive harvest begins

1142
01:02:11,360 --> 01:02:16,360
Speaker 9: around October, both Israeli forces and settlers regularly attack Palestinian

1143
01:02:16,440 --> 01:02:20,160
Speaker 9: villages and farmers and destroy their crops on almost a

1144
01:02:20,280 --> 01:02:25,000
Speaker 9: daily basis. They beat farmers, they spray crops with chemicals,

1145
01:02:25,040 --> 01:02:28,920
Speaker 9: and uproot olive trees by the hundreds. In November of

1146
01:02:28,960 --> 01:02:34,080
Speaker 9: twenty twenty two, Israeli forces uprooted two thousand olive trees

1147
01:02:34,440 --> 01:02:38,640
Speaker 9: in the West Bank. Make it make sense, you can't.

1148
01:02:38,960 --> 01:02:43,680
Speaker 9: It's stupid and illogical. On October twentieth, twenty twenty two,

1149
01:02:43,800 --> 01:02:46,760
Speaker 9: a group of men armed with metal bars and stones

1150
01:02:47,160 --> 01:02:50,760
Speaker 9: attacked klasm At Hajbrahammad and his olive grove in the

1151
01:02:50,840 --> 01:02:56,080
Speaker 9: village of El Lureyev, northeast of Vermola. This group of

1152
01:02:56,200 --> 01:03:00,080
Speaker 9: nearly two dozen settlers from the nearby illegal Israeli settle

1153
01:03:00,400 --> 01:03:05,400
Speaker 9: of Adiad attacked the olive farmer and his friend Mazda Muhammad,

1154
01:03:05,800 --> 01:03:08,960
Speaker 9: the owner of the grove next door, uprooting and heavily

1155
01:03:09,040 --> 01:03:12,240
Speaker 9: damaging a total of eighty olive trees and all men

1156
01:03:12,320 --> 01:03:17,600
Speaker 9: saplings between the two properties. The trespassers also set fire

1157
01:03:17,720 --> 01:03:20,560
Speaker 9: to a vehicle and water tank just for good measure

1158
01:03:20,960 --> 01:03:24,200
Speaker 9: before retreating to their homes in the legal settlement in

1159
01:03:24,240 --> 01:03:28,080
Speaker 9: the northern West Bank. Klose madhaj Rahammad is a forty

1160
01:03:28,080 --> 01:03:31,040
Speaker 9: five year old father of four, and he said, the

1161
01:03:31,120 --> 01:03:35,240
Speaker 9: Israeli army backed the aggressors and through tear gas canisters

1162
01:03:35,240 --> 01:03:38,080
Speaker 9: and rubber bullets at us so that the settlers can

1163
01:03:38,200 --> 01:03:41,720
Speaker 9: keep on destroying our crops. I thought the first time

1164
01:03:41,720 --> 01:03:45,640
Speaker 9: this has happened. This man already lost an eye in

1165
01:03:45,680 --> 01:03:49,560
Speaker 9: a similar settler attack a decade ago, and these are

1166
01:03:49,680 --> 01:03:54,000
Speaker 9: far from isolated incidents. This man lost an eye, now

1167
01:03:54,000 --> 01:03:56,760
Speaker 9: he was losing his entire livelihood and the thing he's

1168
01:03:56,800 --> 01:03:59,560
Speaker 9: built for his entire life, probably his family's life as well.

1169
01:03:59,560 --> 01:04:04,680
Speaker 9: For another incident came from Doha Assous, who is a

1170
01:04:04,840 --> 01:04:07,760
Speaker 9: sixty year old farmer. She says that she got up

1171
01:04:07,760 --> 01:04:10,440
Speaker 9: at five a m. To journey to her olive grove

1172
01:04:10,480 --> 01:04:14,080
Speaker 9: to harvest, only to find thirty five of the precious

1173
01:04:14,120 --> 01:04:17,160
Speaker 9: trees that were planted by her father seventy years ago.

1174
01:04:17,640 --> 01:04:20,920
Speaker 9: These trees were scattered in pieces after settlers took a

1175
01:04:21,000 --> 01:04:25,280
Speaker 9: chainsaw to them. I couldn't contain my sorrow. I hugged

1176
01:04:25,320 --> 01:04:29,280
Speaker 9: the broken trunks and waved goodbye to them forever. Then

1177
01:04:29,320 --> 01:04:33,440
Speaker 9: the Israeli army pulled me away from my field. Many

1178
01:04:33,480 --> 01:04:36,400
Speaker 9: of the groves of Palestinian farmers are located in the

1179
01:04:36,480 --> 01:04:40,480
Speaker 9: vicinity of settlements in restricted areas under Israeli administrative and

1180
01:04:40,520 --> 01:04:44,400
Speaker 9: military control, which means that farmers need to apply for

1181
01:04:44,480 --> 01:04:48,320
Speaker 9: permits specifying when and for how long they can gain

1182
01:04:48,400 --> 01:04:52,760
Speaker 9: access to their own property. On top of that, Israeli

1183
01:04:52,880 --> 01:04:56,120
Speaker 9: law allows the government to seize Palestinian fields if they

1184
01:04:56,120 --> 01:04:59,960
Speaker 9: are abandoned for more than three years, which is at

1185
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:04,720
Speaker 9: go back to Autumn era land codes. Taken together, these

1186
01:05:04,800 --> 01:05:08,840
Speaker 9: rules incentivize attacks to keep the farmers from accessing their groves,

1187
01:05:09,280 --> 01:05:13,040
Speaker 9: thus allowing for claims of abandonment and eventual seizure of

1188
01:05:13,080 --> 01:05:16,600
Speaker 9: the land, and many families have given up on reaching

1189
01:05:16,680 --> 01:05:20,280
Speaker 9: their lands for fear of being killed, which is also

1190
01:05:20,360 --> 01:05:25,040
Speaker 9: I think what the settlers want. Farming activists Gasan Najad

1191
01:05:25,240 --> 01:05:29,480
Speaker 9: said during the harvest, settlers attack us on a daily basis.

1192
01:05:29,840 --> 01:05:32,560
Speaker 9: They want to take possession of our lands and build

1193
01:05:32,720 --> 01:05:37,120
Speaker 9: more settlements. Today, the number of Israelis living in some

1194
01:05:37,240 --> 01:05:41,560
Speaker 9: two hundred and fifty settlements built on Palestinian territory illegally

1195
01:05:42,120 --> 01:05:46,200
Speaker 9: according to international law is between six hundred thousand and

1196
01:05:46,280 --> 01:05:51,120
Speaker 9: seven hundred and fifty thousand people, and as settlements keep expanding,

1197
01:05:51,280 --> 01:05:54,120
Speaker 9: the rights of Palestinians to access their land in those

1198
01:05:54,160 --> 01:05:59,240
Speaker 9: areas are stifled by ever more restrictive permitting. Since two

1199
01:05:59,240 --> 01:06:02,600
Speaker 9: thousand and five, more than ninety two percent of investigations

1200
01:06:02,640 --> 01:06:06,800
Speaker 9: into complaints made by Palestinian victims were closed without filing

1201
01:06:06,920 --> 01:06:13,560
Speaker 9: legal charges, surprise, surprise. According to independent observers appointed by

1202
01:06:13,600 --> 01:06:17,880
Speaker 9: the UN, the violence attributed to Zuri settlers against Palestinians

1203
01:06:17,920 --> 01:06:21,320
Speaker 9: in the West Bank has worsened in recent months amid

1204
01:06:21,400 --> 01:06:25,960
Speaker 9: a quote atmosphere of impunity. In response to these attacks,

1205
01:06:26,120 --> 01:06:29,760
Speaker 9: Palestinian farmers have been forced to plant about ten thousand

1206
01:06:29,840 --> 01:06:33,080
Speaker 9: new olive trees in the West Bank each year to

1207
01:06:33,160 --> 01:06:37,440
Speaker 9: prevent the region's five thousand year old industry from dying out.

1208
01:06:38,160 --> 01:06:41,880
Speaker 9: Chauna Dullan, the director of international relations with the NGO

1209
01:06:42,040 --> 01:06:47,160
Speaker 9: yesh Din, said impunity encourages settlers to take over more land.

1210
01:06:47,560 --> 01:06:50,840
Speaker 9: They feel more empowered than ever to use violent means

1211
01:06:50,880 --> 01:06:54,960
Speaker 9: to attack Palestinians. It's hard to imagine the situation getting

1212
01:06:55,000 --> 01:06:58,800
Speaker 9: worse than this, but it likely will. And they also

1213
01:06:58,920 --> 01:07:02,440
Speaker 9: added that cooperation between settlers and the army on these

1214
01:07:02,560 --> 01:07:07,160
Speaker 9: organized attacks has become something of an established pattern. We've

1215
01:07:07,160 --> 01:07:09,560
Speaker 9: talked about this on other episodes in the past, but

1216
01:07:09,960 --> 01:07:13,920
Speaker 9: legislative elections in November of last year brought a sharp

1217
01:07:14,040 --> 01:07:17,840
Speaker 9: rise in settler violence because the far right religious Zionist

1218
01:07:17,920 --> 01:07:21,800
Speaker 9: Party and the Utzvah Yehudid party surged in the polls.

1219
01:07:22,440 --> 01:07:26,480
Speaker 9: It'samar Benavide is now Israel's National Security Minister under a

1220
01:07:26,520 --> 01:07:30,040
Speaker 9: new coalition deal, and this grants him control over the

1221
01:07:30,120 --> 01:07:33,960
Speaker 9: Israeli Border Police Division in the West Bank. He proudly

1222
01:07:34,000 --> 01:07:40,360
Speaker 9: advocates for expelling disloyal Arab citizens from Israel. Dior Sadat

1223
01:07:40,520 --> 01:07:44,600
Speaker 9: from the Jerusalem based NGO bit Selim, which documents human

1224
01:07:44,680 --> 01:07:48,760
Speaker 9: rights violations in the occupied territories and frames Israeli policies

1225
01:07:48,800 --> 01:07:51,400
Speaker 9: in the West Bank as those of an apartheid regime.

1226
01:07:52,000 --> 01:07:55,200
Speaker 9: They said, the State of Israel is using settlers as

1227
01:07:55,240 --> 01:07:58,360
Speaker 9: its unofficial armed arm in the West Bank to take

1228
01:07:58,400 --> 01:08:01,720
Speaker 9: over more land. Settlers are fully backed by the state.

1229
01:08:02,240 --> 01:08:05,240
Speaker 9: We expect to witness much more violence as far right

1230
01:08:05,280 --> 01:08:10,040
Speaker 9: parties gain positions of power. As the unfortunate triumph of

1231
01:08:10,120 --> 01:08:14,160
Speaker 9: nationalist religious ideals has made the Israeli far right integrated

1232
01:08:14,160 --> 01:08:18,640
Speaker 9: in mainstream politics, human rights groups are becoming increasingly concerned

1233
01:08:18,680 --> 01:08:22,559
Speaker 9: with the implications for Palestinians and the occupied territories, going

1234
01:08:22,600 --> 01:08:25,719
Speaker 9: as far as to fear a formal annexation of all

1235
01:08:25,840 --> 01:08:29,480
Speaker 9: or parts of the West Bank through a Kinesset vote.

1236
01:08:29,600 --> 01:08:32,439
Speaker 9: According to U one experts, twenty twenty two was the

1237
01:08:32,600 --> 01:08:36,120
Speaker 9: sixth year of consecutive annual increase in a number of

1238
01:08:36,200 --> 01:08:39,840
Speaker 9: Israeli attacks in the occupied territories, and the deadliest in

1239
01:08:39,880 --> 01:08:43,880
Speaker 9: the West Bank since two thousand and five. Let's take

1240
01:08:43,920 --> 01:08:47,280
Speaker 9: our first break right here. We'll be right back because

1241
01:08:47,280 --> 01:08:51,640
Speaker 9: we always are. Okay, Okay, we are back. Let's just

1242
01:08:51,800 --> 01:08:56,040
Speaker 9: jump right back in. In twenty twenty Harts magazine publish

1243
01:08:56,120 --> 01:08:59,640
Speaker 9: an article about Israeli's growing ancient olive trees in the

1244
01:08:59,640 --> 01:09:03,760
Speaker 9: Galley region in northern Israel. The article focuses on the

1245
01:09:03,840 --> 01:09:07,439
Speaker 9: Neu Maher family, who have been growing quote hundreds of

1246
01:09:07,439 --> 01:09:10,799
Speaker 9: these ancient trees, many of which are between two hundred

1247
01:09:10,840 --> 01:09:14,639
Speaker 9: and eight hundred years old, on land adjacent to Mojave

1248
01:09:14,720 --> 01:09:18,280
Speaker 9: Da Zapori in the Lower Galilee region. The olive oil

1249
01:09:18,360 --> 01:09:23,120
Speaker 9: produced by Neu Mayor's company rish Makish or lakish. Sorry

1250
01:09:23,160 --> 01:09:25,920
Speaker 9: he was pronouncing that, probably, but this olive oil received

1251
01:09:26,000 --> 01:09:29,600
Speaker 9: high praise from Ronetz Vered, the article's author, and the

1252
01:09:29,720 --> 01:09:33,639
Speaker 9: Harrit's food critic. But my question is how did such

1253
01:09:33,720 --> 01:09:37,080
Speaker 9: ancient trees fall into the hands of the Neu Mayer family,

1254
01:09:37,479 --> 01:09:41,880
Speaker 9: who settled into Zapori only twenty years ago. No historical

1255
01:09:41,960 --> 01:09:44,920
Speaker 9: context is given in the article to explain the existence

1256
01:09:44,960 --> 01:09:48,679
Speaker 9: of these trees, which the author rights are quote spread

1257
01:09:48,720 --> 01:09:51,800
Speaker 9: out over a large area and found in pasture is

1258
01:09:51,840 --> 01:09:55,839
Speaker 9: difficult for cultivation and harvesting. The answer to this question

1259
01:09:56,080 --> 01:09:59,599
Speaker 9: is that mojav Da Zapori this region sits on land

1260
01:10:00,360 --> 01:10:05,759
Speaker 9: to the destroyed and depopulated Palestinian village of Safuria. According

1261
01:10:05,800 --> 01:10:09,479
Speaker 9: to Palestine remembered a website dedicated to preserving the memory

1262
01:10:09,560 --> 01:10:13,160
Speaker 9: of more than four hundred Palestinian villages which were destroyed

1263
01:10:13,240 --> 01:10:17,200
Speaker 9: during the Nekba. Safuria was a relatively large community, with

1264
01:10:17,280 --> 01:10:21,400
Speaker 9: over five thousand residents in nineteen forty eight. The area

1265
01:10:21,479 --> 01:10:25,320
Speaker 9: around the village, according to Wild Khalidi's book All That Remains,

1266
01:10:25,920 --> 01:10:30,200
Speaker 9: was well endowed with fertile soil and surface and underground

1267
01:10:30,200 --> 01:10:35,600
Speaker 9: water resources, with olives being the village's chief crop. Safuria

1268
01:10:35,920 --> 01:10:40,000
Speaker 9: was conquered by Israeli forces on July fifteenth, nineteen forty eight.

1269
01:10:40,800 --> 01:10:43,920
Speaker 9: According to village residents, only a small number of people

1270
01:10:43,960 --> 01:10:46,240
Speaker 9: remained in the village after it was bombed from the

1271
01:10:46,320 --> 01:10:49,800
Speaker 9: air by Israeli forces, and very few people were able

1272
01:10:49,840 --> 01:10:53,720
Speaker 9: to return and retrieve their property. We talked about the

1273
01:10:53,760 --> 01:10:55,720
Speaker 9: Nipka in the previous episode. If you guys want to

1274
01:10:55,760 --> 01:10:58,160
Speaker 9: revisit that, I won't get into it too much in

1275
01:10:58,200 --> 01:11:00,400
Speaker 9: this episode because I already have one all of it.

1276
01:11:00,920 --> 01:11:03,360
Speaker 9: But I'm just going to continue talking about this author,

1277
01:11:03,479 --> 01:11:07,880
Speaker 9: while Khalidi and his books. While Khalidi has another book

1278
01:11:08,040 --> 01:11:12,320
Speaker 9: titled The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem, which unveiled

1279
01:11:12,439 --> 01:11:17,240
Speaker 9: previously concealed Israeli state archives, which Khalidi references in his book.

1280
01:11:18,520 --> 01:11:22,000
Speaker 9: Israeli historian Benny Morris writes that those who remained in

1281
01:11:22,040 --> 01:11:25,679
Speaker 9: Sefudia were expelled in nineteen forty eight, but that quote

1282
01:11:25,760 --> 01:11:30,360
Speaker 9: hundreds infiltrated back in the months that followed. Israeli authorities,

1283
01:11:30,439 --> 01:11:34,200
Speaker 9: Morris wrote, feared that if they returning Palestinians were allowed

1284
01:11:34,240 --> 01:11:37,439
Speaker 9: to stay, the village would quote soon return to its

1285
01:11:37,479 --> 01:11:42,320
Speaker 9: pre war population. By then, neighboring Jewish settlements had already

1286
01:11:42,400 --> 01:11:47,960
Speaker 9: coveted Sefuia's lands. According to Morris, one senior Israeli official

1287
01:11:48,120 --> 01:11:51,920
Speaker 9: stated in November of nineteen forty eight, next to Nazareth

1288
01:11:52,040 --> 01:11:55,680
Speaker 9: is a village whose distant lands are needed for our settlements.

1289
01:11:56,120 --> 01:12:00,680
Speaker 9: Perhaps they can be given to another place. After the

1290
01:12:00,760 --> 01:12:04,400
Speaker 9: inhabitants were loaded on trucks in January of nineteen forty

1291
01:12:04,479 --> 01:12:09,439
Speaker 9: nine and expelled again to neighboring Arab communities. In short,

1292
01:12:09,600 --> 01:12:12,639
Speaker 9: going back to that Heart's article, the hundreds of ancient

1293
01:12:12,680 --> 01:12:15,320
Speaker 9: olive trees that our reference did not just grow out

1294
01:12:15,360 --> 01:12:19,439
Speaker 9: of thin air. The Palestinian residents of Safuria planted and

1295
01:12:19,560 --> 01:12:23,800
Speaker 9: cultivated them for centuries. The trees were stolen from them

1296
01:12:23,920 --> 01:12:27,920
Speaker 9: by force the state leases those trees after claiming the

1297
01:12:28,000 --> 01:12:31,720
Speaker 9: village's land as its own. Some of that land is

1298
01:12:31,800 --> 01:12:34,760
Speaker 9: now part of a man made forest planted by the

1299
01:12:34,800 --> 01:12:39,040
Speaker 9: Jewish National Fund. But to ignore the village's history, as

1300
01:12:39,080 --> 01:12:42,760
Speaker 9: the Heart's article did, is no worse than ignoring the

1301
01:12:42,800 --> 01:12:47,200
Speaker 9: stolen land on which Israeli companies like the one mentioned

1302
01:12:47,400 --> 01:12:50,360
Speaker 9: and many others produced its olive oil in the West Bank.

1303
01:12:51,120 --> 01:12:55,479
Speaker 9: Taha Muhammadadi, the famed Palestinian poet, was born in and

1304
01:12:55,560 --> 01:12:59,920
Speaker 9: expelled from Safuria. The family of Muhammad Bedeck, the politician

1305
01:13:00,000 --> 01:13:02,759
Speaker 9: who heads the High follow Up Committee for Arab citizens

1306
01:13:02,760 --> 01:13:07,080
Speaker 9: of Israel, was uprooted from the village. Safuriya may be gone,

1307
01:13:07,520 --> 01:13:10,519
Speaker 9: but its memory lives. I want to talk about how

1308
01:13:10,520 --> 01:13:14,320
Speaker 9: olive trees became a symbol in Palestinian art in literature.

1309
01:13:15,000 --> 01:13:18,600
Speaker 9: Olive trees are featured so prominently in Palestine art in

1310
01:13:18,680 --> 01:13:23,320
Speaker 9: literature even the far flung diaspora, as symbols of rootedness

1311
01:13:23,320 --> 01:13:27,520
Speaker 9: in an age of displacement, self sufficiency in times of hardship,

1312
01:13:27,800 --> 01:13:32,600
Speaker 9: and peace in periods of war. Sliemad Mansour, a Palestinian

1313
01:13:32,640 --> 01:13:35,680
Speaker 9: painter in Jerusalem whose art has been long focused on

1314
01:13:35,720 --> 01:13:39,400
Speaker 9: the theme of Land said, the olive tree represents the

1315
01:13:39,439 --> 01:13:43,240
Speaker 9: steadfastness of the Palestinian people, who are able to live

1316
01:13:43,320 --> 01:13:47,519
Speaker 9: under difficult circumstances. In the same way that the trees

1317
01:13:47,560 --> 01:13:50,680
Speaker 9: can survive and have deep roots in their land, so

1318
01:13:50,880 --> 01:13:55,520
Speaker 9: too do the Palestinian people. Mahmoud d Ruish, the celebrated

1319
01:13:55,560 --> 01:13:58,640
Speaker 9: Palestinian poet who died in two thousand and eight, his

1320
01:13:58,800 --> 01:14:02,599
Speaker 9: works have many reference to olives. In his nineteen sixty

1321
01:14:02,640 --> 01:14:06,400
Speaker 9: four poetry collection Leaves of the Olive Tree, he wrote,

1322
01:14:06,800 --> 01:14:11,320
Speaker 9: olive is an evergreen tree. Olive will stay evergreen like

1323
01:14:11,360 --> 01:14:17,400
Speaker 9: a shield for the universe. Nabil Anani, the celebrated Palestinian painter,

1324
01:14:17,680 --> 01:14:21,160
Speaker 9: Saramesis and sculptor, believes that the olive tree is a

1325
01:14:21,200 --> 01:14:26,520
Speaker 9: powerful national symbol that must be protected at all costs. Anani,

1326
01:14:26,560 --> 01:14:30,360
Speaker 9: who was considered one of the founders of contemporary Palestinian art,

1327
01:14:30,720 --> 01:14:34,360
Speaker 9: told Arab News. For me, it is both a national

1328
01:14:34,400 --> 01:14:38,640
Speaker 9: and artistic symbol. It reflects the nature and beauty of Palestine.

1329
01:14:39,240 --> 01:14:43,719
Speaker 9: Our traditions, culture, poems and songs are often centered around

1330
01:14:43,760 --> 01:14:47,160
Speaker 9: the tree to the west of Ramolah, the administrative heart

1331
01:14:47,200 --> 01:14:51,559
Speaker 9: of the Palestine government. Annani said that the hillsides are

1332
01:14:51,760 --> 01:14:55,479
Speaker 9: full of olive trees as far as the eye can see.

1333
01:14:55,640 --> 01:14:58,479
Speaker 9: They cover entire mountains, and it is one of the

1334
01:14:58,479 --> 01:15:01,360
Speaker 9: most pleasant views that anyone can observe.

1335
01:15:01,560 --> 01:15:02,040
Speaker 4: He said.

1336
01:15:02,920 --> 01:15:06,040
Speaker 9: That is the economic and symbolic power of the olive

1337
01:15:06,080 --> 01:15:11,160
Speaker 9: tree and Palestinian national life. The rural communities that have

1338
01:15:11,280 --> 01:15:14,800
Speaker 9: tended to these crofts for generations are routinely targeted by

1339
01:15:14,840 --> 01:15:19,280
Speaker 9: illegal settlers, attempting to strip families of their land and living.

1340
01:15:20,520 --> 01:15:24,439
Speaker 9: The late Fudadalchran, one of the most respected female poets

1341
01:15:24,479 --> 01:15:28,719
Speaker 9: in Palestinian literature, saw olive trees as symbols of unity

1342
01:15:28,760 --> 01:15:32,280
Speaker 9: with nature and of hope for the renewal and rebirth

1343
01:15:32,320 --> 01:15:36,439
Speaker 9: of Palestine. In a nineteen ninety three poems, she wrote,

1344
01:15:36,840 --> 01:15:39,719
Speaker 9: the roots of the olive tree are from my soil,

1345
01:15:40,080 --> 01:15:43,639
Speaker 9: and they are always fresh. Its lights are emitted from

1346
01:15:43,640 --> 01:15:47,920
Speaker 9: my heart, and it is inspired until my creator filled

1347
01:15:47,960 --> 01:15:51,599
Speaker 9: my nerve, root and body, so he got up while

1348
01:15:51,640 --> 01:15:56,280
Speaker 9: shaking its leaves due to maturity created within him. More

1349
01:15:56,320 --> 01:15:59,759
Speaker 9: than just a source of income and artistic inspiration, however,

1350
01:16:00,240 --> 01:16:03,880
Speaker 9: olives also form a vital part of Palestinian diet and

1351
01:16:03,960 --> 01:16:09,240
Speaker 9: culinary culture. Pickled olives feature and breakfasts, lunches, and dinners,

1352
01:16:09,640 --> 01:16:14,960
Speaker 9: and also provides significant nutritional health benefits. Olive oil, meanwhile,

1353
01:16:15,120 --> 01:16:18,640
Speaker 9: is used in scores of recipes, the most popular of

1354
01:16:18,680 --> 01:16:23,160
Speaker 9: which is zata rousset, which is basically fluffy peta bread

1355
01:16:23,320 --> 01:16:27,000
Speaker 9: dipped in oil then dabbed liberally in a time based

1356
01:16:27,000 --> 01:16:31,719
Speaker 9: powder that includes sesame seeds and spices. My mom actually

1357
01:16:31,760 --> 01:16:33,639
Speaker 9: talks about this all the time. It was what our

1358
01:16:33,640 --> 01:16:37,040
Speaker 9: hers staples growing up in childhood. Were obsessed with it.

1359
01:16:37,720 --> 01:16:43,160
Speaker 9: Palestinian zata is delicious in particular, but olive oil is

1360
01:16:43,200 --> 01:16:48,080
Speaker 9: a huge part of this cultural Arab staple. Beyond the

1361
01:16:48,080 --> 01:16:52,320
Speaker 9: dinner table, Olive oil historically has had many other uses.

1362
01:16:52,840 --> 01:16:55,760
Speaker 9: It's been a source of fuel and oil lamps, a

1363
01:16:55,880 --> 01:16:59,479
Speaker 9: natural treatment for dry hair, skin and nails, and even

1364
01:16:59,520 --> 01:17:03,360
Speaker 9: as an insecticide. It is not only the fruit in

1365
01:17:03,439 --> 01:17:06,440
Speaker 9: its oil, but the olive tree contributes to the cultural

1366
01:17:06,479 --> 01:17:10,919
Speaker 9: and economic life of Palestine. Olive pits, the hard stones

1367
01:17:10,960 --> 01:17:14,280
Speaker 9: in the center of the fruit have long been repurposed

1368
01:17:14,320 --> 01:17:17,479
Speaker 9: to make strings of prayer beads used by Muslims and

1369
01:17:17,560 --> 01:17:22,160
Speaker 9: Christians alike. As for the leaves and branches of the trees,

1370
01:17:22,520 --> 01:17:25,360
Speaker 9: they are trimmed during the harvest season to be used

1371
01:17:25,400 --> 01:17:28,919
Speaker 9: as feed for sheep and goats, while the broad canopy

1372
01:17:28,960 --> 01:17:31,840
Speaker 9: of the olive grove provides animals and their shepherds with

1373
01:17:32,080 --> 01:17:36,519
Speaker 9: welcome shade from the relentless afternoon sun. The wood of

1374
01:17:36,640 --> 01:17:39,879
Speaker 9: felled trees has also been widely used in the carving

1375
01:17:39,960 --> 01:17:43,519
Speaker 9: of religious icons as far back as the sixteenth century,

1376
01:17:44,040 --> 01:17:47,400
Speaker 9: and as a source of firewood before the modern use

1377
01:17:47,479 --> 01:17:52,320
Speaker 9: of gas. In fact, the glassmakers of Hebron, who are

1378
01:17:52,360 --> 01:17:56,479
Speaker 9: famed for their stained glass, continue to use charcoal derived

1379
01:17:56,479 --> 01:18:00,160
Speaker 9: from olive trees to fire their kilns. And while the

1380
01:18:00,240 --> 01:18:05,400
Speaker 9: quantifiably beneficial uses of the olive tree are many, perhaps

1381
01:18:05,400 --> 01:18:08,960
Speaker 9: what is even more valuable to Palestinians is the inspiration

1382
01:18:09,080 --> 01:18:13,360
Speaker 9: it has provided for poets, painters, and prophets down the ages.

1383
01:18:14,000 --> 01:18:17,360
Speaker 9: Not to mention this special place it continues to occupy

1384
01:18:17,479 --> 01:18:21,720
Speaker 9: in their culture and quests for statehood. This is all

1385
01:18:21,840 --> 01:18:25,400
Speaker 9: why I wanted to mention the olive tree and really

1386
01:18:25,439 --> 01:18:30,280
Speaker 9: illustrate its significance to Palestinians and also just point out

1387
01:18:30,760 --> 01:18:35,639
Speaker 9: that destroying these crops and these trees, or claiming them

1388
01:18:35,680 --> 01:18:39,160
Speaker 9: for your own it actually is an insult to the

1389
01:18:39,240 --> 01:18:43,400
Speaker 9: land itself, and that is a Zionist action that I

1390
01:18:43,479 --> 01:18:49,879
Speaker 9: just think has no actual excuse or defense. Why destroy

1391
01:18:49,920 --> 01:18:53,040
Speaker 9: the land that you want so badly if not for

1392
01:18:53,280 --> 01:18:57,320
Speaker 9: spite and hate. So that's what I want to talk

1393
01:18:57,360 --> 01:19:01,280
Speaker 9: about today. I hope it was interesting, educational or whatever.

1394
01:19:01,760 --> 01:19:04,920
Speaker 9: How we encourage you to try Zeta Zata one day

1395
01:19:04,920 --> 01:19:07,479
Speaker 9: in your life from an actual air person so you

1396
01:19:07,479 --> 01:19:10,120
Speaker 9: can make sure it's good. But yeah, that's all I got,

1397
01:19:10,520 --> 01:19:14,639
Speaker 9: So thank you for listening and until next time. Fuck

1398
01:19:14,680 --> 01:19:15,800
Speaker 9: the idea. The tug is real.

1399
01:19:16,000 --> 01:19:29,360
Speaker 10: Bye.

1400
01:19:32,200 --> 01:19:33,639
Speaker 11: Hello, it's just me again.

1401
01:19:33,680 --> 01:19:35,040
Speaker 4: Today it's James.

1402
01:19:35,120 --> 01:19:38,640
Speaker 11: I'm joined by Eric Mesa, who will introduce himself in

1403
01:19:38,680 --> 01:19:42,440
Speaker 11: a second, and we're going to be discussing the environmental

1404
01:19:42,720 --> 01:19:46,759
Speaker 11: and human impact of the border policies in the last

1405
01:19:47,320 --> 01:19:50,479
Speaker 11: decade or thereabouts and to include the border wall. So Eric,

1406
01:19:50,479 --> 01:19:51,799
Speaker 11: would you like to introduce yourself.

1407
01:19:52,479 --> 01:19:53,200
Speaker 4: Thank you James.

1408
01:19:53,240 --> 01:19:55,680
Speaker 12: Of course my name is Eric Mesa, I just hear

1409
01:19:55,800 --> 01:19:59,600
Speaker 12: him pronounced, and I am the Border the Lands coordinator

1410
01:19:59,640 --> 01:20:03,400
Speaker 12: for a club part of the Grand Canyon Chapter based

1411
01:20:03,400 --> 01:20:06,240
Speaker 12: out of Tuson, Arizona, which is the on city land

1412
01:20:06,280 --> 01:20:09,800
Speaker 12: of the Tona Autumn and Pasco Yaki people many other

1413
01:20:09,840 --> 01:20:11,120
Speaker 12: tribes that might call home.

1414
01:20:11,160 --> 01:20:12,120
Speaker 4: Thank you for having me.

1415
01:20:12,680 --> 01:20:14,880
Speaker 11: Yeah, thank you very much for joining us, And it's

1416
01:20:14,920 --> 01:20:19,120
Speaker 11: a fantastic introduction. So, Eric, I think if we start

1417
01:20:19,120 --> 01:20:24,640
Speaker 11: out by just explaining what the border wall kind of

1418
01:20:25,200 --> 01:20:27,439
Speaker 11: looks like in the landscape and how it operates in

1419
01:20:27,479 --> 01:20:30,439
Speaker 11: the landscape, because although it's something that you and I

1420
01:20:30,520 --> 01:20:32,880
Speaker 11: might see almost every day, for a lot of people

1421
01:20:32,920 --> 01:20:34,759
Speaker 11: it's something that they kind of saw on the news

1422
01:20:34,880 --> 01:20:36,479
Speaker 11: three or four years ago and then the new start

1423
01:20:36,560 --> 01:20:39,720
Speaker 11: reporting on it. So can you explain like the physical

1424
01:20:39,840 --> 01:20:41,880
Speaker 11: kind of stature and impact of the wall.

1425
01:20:43,920 --> 01:20:48,559
Speaker 12: Yes, well, I think for each person it definitely takes

1426
01:20:48,600 --> 01:20:52,120
Speaker 12: into a with the perspective that they might have. You know,

1427
01:20:52,200 --> 01:20:55,960
Speaker 12: it definitely impacts people in a different way. But one

1428
01:20:56,000 --> 01:20:58,800
Speaker 12: thing that you can like notice as soon as you

1429
01:20:58,840 --> 01:21:02,080
Speaker 12: see it is how massive it is. How it just

1430
01:21:02,200 --> 01:21:08,040
Speaker 12: divides these pristine, beautiful Sonoran desert lands and divides them

1431
01:21:08,080 --> 01:21:13,760
Speaker 12: on half. So that already for us as an organization,

1432
01:21:13,920 --> 01:21:16,320
Speaker 12: since the beginning and the conception of the idea of

1433
01:21:16,479 --> 01:21:21,160
Speaker 12: start rolling all of these remote areas, start looking at

1434
01:21:21,200 --> 01:21:23,760
Speaker 12: the environmental impact that social action can have.

1435
01:21:24,040 --> 01:21:28,080
Speaker 4: So it's always really hard to see and just to

1436
01:21:28,240 --> 01:21:28,800
Speaker 4: imagine and.

1437
01:21:28,880 --> 01:21:31,719
Speaker 12: To think about all of the different things, not only people,

1438
01:21:31,840 --> 01:21:34,040
Speaker 12: but all the different movements that used.

1439
01:21:33,880 --> 01:21:37,120
Speaker 4: To happen in these areas. Now it is being completely interrupted.

1440
01:21:37,840 --> 01:21:41,880
Speaker 11: Yeah, yeah, definitely. I remember in twenty twenty I was

1441
01:21:41,960 --> 01:21:46,799
Speaker 11: out in on cum Island in place called Kampa filming

1442
01:21:47,280 --> 01:21:50,679
Speaker 11: a Kumi I protest against the desecration of the sacred sites.

1443
01:21:50,720 --> 01:21:53,320
Speaker 11: But actually I was writing for this er club and

1444
01:21:53,880 --> 01:21:57,360
Speaker 11: I saw Ada that day, like and it just came

1445
01:21:57,439 --> 01:21:59,200
Speaker 11: up to the world, and it was like, what the.

1446
01:21:59,200 --> 01:22:01,240
Speaker 4: Fuck do I do? This wasn't here last time I

1447
01:22:01,360 --> 01:22:01,720
Speaker 4: came here.

1448
01:22:02,000 --> 01:22:04,120
Speaker 11: It was just just really I don't know why. Obviously,

1449
01:22:04,760 --> 01:22:06,920
Speaker 11: well those horrible cruel things to people every day, but

1450
01:22:07,200 --> 01:22:09,080
Speaker 11: I don't know why it struck me at how unnatural

1451
01:22:09,200 --> 01:22:12,320
Speaker 11: and unwelcome it was in that place, but it did.

1452
01:22:13,360 --> 01:22:15,800
Speaker 11: So I think maybe if we could look at these

1453
01:22:15,840 --> 01:22:20,799
Speaker 11: different The wall spans a huge area and it stops

1454
01:22:20,880 --> 01:22:24,680
Speaker 11: randomly throughout that area, so preps you could explain some

1455
01:22:24,920 --> 01:22:27,720
Speaker 11: of the ecological impacts. Maybe if we start where you

1456
01:22:27,800 --> 01:22:30,760
Speaker 11: are in Tucson, and then we move gradually west to

1457
01:22:31,160 --> 01:22:32,840
Speaker 11: where I am and at the western end of it,

1458
01:22:33,000 --> 01:22:35,160
Speaker 11: And would that be a good sort of way to

1459
01:22:35,240 --> 01:22:35,400
Speaker 11: do that?

1460
01:22:36,720 --> 01:22:39,519
Speaker 4: Yeah, of course, Well here in Tucson.

1461
01:22:39,600 --> 01:22:44,080
Speaker 12: Our closest border is Nogalles, and once we started moving

1462
01:22:44,920 --> 01:22:49,240
Speaker 12: east or I'm sorry west from there, the closest one

1463
01:22:49,640 --> 01:22:53,960
Speaker 12: very next to it's called Sassabi, and as you mentioned Nogles,

1464
01:22:54,200 --> 01:22:56,719
Speaker 12: there is big walls and then soon it stops because

1465
01:22:56,760 --> 01:23:00,439
Speaker 12: then the terrain gets very uneven. There is a range

1466
01:23:00,520 --> 01:23:03,240
Speaker 12: of mountains called the Pahari Too Mountains, which is one

1467
01:23:03,280 --> 01:23:06,800
Speaker 12: of the most biodiverse areas here in the Southwest, with

1468
01:23:07,000 --> 01:23:11,800
Speaker 12: some endemic species of plants and animals. Actually, thankfully the

1469
01:23:11,880 --> 01:23:17,280
Speaker 12: wall stops there. And then there is certain areas that

1470
01:23:17,960 --> 01:23:20,880
Speaker 12: there is a lot of unfinished projects, or we also

1471
01:23:21,000 --> 01:23:24,760
Speaker 12: call them orphan walls, like sections of the wall that

1472
01:23:24,960 --> 01:23:29,439
Speaker 12: never were completed and they just stand there. Unfortunately, to

1473
01:23:29,560 --> 01:23:33,479
Speaker 12: get them up there, there was a lot of impact.

1474
01:23:36,400 --> 01:23:40,080
Speaker 12: For example, they use dynamite to blow up entire mountain

1475
01:23:40,200 --> 01:23:43,840
Speaker 12: tops to get equipment up there, and some of the

1476
01:23:43,920 --> 01:23:46,760
Speaker 12: cases without even constructing any wall at the end.

1477
01:23:47,160 --> 01:23:48,880
Speaker 4: So it's really unfortunate.

1478
01:23:49,479 --> 01:23:52,120
Speaker 12: Because a lot of the debris that came out of

1479
01:23:52,160 --> 01:23:55,320
Speaker 12: these explosions right now it's causing a lot of erosion

1480
01:23:55,400 --> 01:23:59,400
Speaker 12: issues and it's like moving into those canyons and covering

1481
01:23:59,479 --> 01:24:03,280
Speaker 12: a lot of the vegitation that was there before. Then

1482
01:24:03,360 --> 01:24:06,680
Speaker 12: as you keep coming, passing through the Phariitu Mountains, then

1483
01:24:06,760 --> 01:24:10,080
Speaker 12: you get to the area called the Buenos Aires National

1484
01:24:10,200 --> 01:24:14,000
Speaker 12: Refuge near the town of Sassab, and there is a

1485
01:24:14,360 --> 01:24:18,120
Speaker 12: large segment of a wall there with twenty six gaps,

1486
01:24:18,640 --> 01:24:22,840
Speaker 12: small gaps, big gaps, and all of these gaps have

1487
01:24:23,000 --> 01:24:25,680
Speaker 12: been there since the beginning of the construction.

1488
01:24:26,320 --> 01:24:29,560
Speaker 4: CBP recently announced that they're going to be closing some

1489
01:24:29,760 --> 01:24:30,479
Speaker 4: of these gaps.

1490
01:24:31,560 --> 01:24:36,960
Speaker 12: They have been used by migrants a lot recently, but

1491
01:24:37,479 --> 01:24:42,080
Speaker 12: in recent days actually the influx of migrants have definitely

1492
01:24:42,160 --> 01:24:46,040
Speaker 12: declined a lot, different to what other people seence in

1493
01:24:46,160 --> 01:24:50,000
Speaker 12: other parts of the country, but especially in this area

1494
01:24:50,040 --> 01:24:53,280
Speaker 12: in Arizona, we didn't see the huge amounts of migrants

1495
01:24:53,320 --> 01:24:57,000
Speaker 12: coming after Title forty two. So once you pass that section,

1496
01:24:57,200 --> 01:25:01,280
Speaker 12: then you get to what's the Once you pass the

1497
01:25:01,760 --> 01:25:05,560
Speaker 12: Sasaba Port of entry, then you enter the Tona Autumn Reservation.

1498
01:25:06,760 --> 01:25:09,639
Speaker 12: Tona Autumn decided that they didn't want a wall there,

1499
01:25:09,840 --> 01:25:12,360
Speaker 12: and they fought for it, and they didn't build a wall,

1500
01:25:12,600 --> 01:25:14,440
Speaker 12: and there is about.

1501
01:25:15,880 --> 01:25:18,160
Speaker 4: I'm not really sure about the number of miles.

1502
01:25:18,200 --> 01:25:21,240
Speaker 12: I think there is about sixteen to twenty two miles

1503
01:25:21,560 --> 01:25:25,680
Speaker 12: of just the land that only contains what's known as

1504
01:25:25,800 --> 01:25:30,599
Speaker 12: a vehicle barrier or normandy barriers. These are made out

1505
01:25:30,640 --> 01:25:36,560
Speaker 12: of like all train tracks, which we really like environmentally

1506
01:25:36,640 --> 01:25:41,880
Speaker 12: speaking because it allows the movement of the animals and

1507
01:25:42,120 --> 01:25:46,800
Speaker 12: the flow of the water as well. And then once

1508
01:25:46,880 --> 01:25:49,719
Speaker 12: you pass the reservation, then you go into Organ Pipe

1509
01:25:49,840 --> 01:25:54,280
Speaker 12: National Park, and then you start seeing more wall sections

1510
01:25:54,520 --> 01:25:58,040
Speaker 12: on areas like Kito w Akito Springs like a very

1511
01:25:58,120 --> 01:26:01,479
Speaker 12: important ceremonial site for he has shed.

1512
01:26:01,280 --> 01:26:05,719
Speaker 4: Automn people and a lot of destruction on those areas.

1513
01:26:05,840 --> 01:26:09,799
Speaker 12: Sacred sites as well, there are very cultural and important

1514
01:26:09,880 --> 01:26:13,599
Speaker 12: for the ton autem people, like Monument Hill, a burial

1515
01:26:13,720 --> 01:26:14,240
Speaker 12: site that.

1516
01:26:16,479 --> 01:26:18,080
Speaker 4: Wall was built right on top of it.

1517
01:26:19,280 --> 01:26:22,960
Speaker 12: And just keep moving and then you get to areas

1518
01:26:23,040 --> 01:26:28,120
Speaker 12: that are more remote until you get to Yuma, and then.

1519
01:26:28,560 --> 01:26:33,200
Speaker 4: We have also Coco pat Reservation there that there is

1520
01:26:33,320 --> 01:26:33,800
Speaker 4: no wall.

1521
01:26:35,160 --> 01:26:40,640
Speaker 12: The wall exists just after the the reservation and there

1522
01:26:40,680 --> 01:26:43,360
Speaker 12: are some segments I believe that still have no wall

1523
01:26:43,400 --> 01:26:46,800
Speaker 12: in there. Recently, there was the action by the state

1524
01:26:46,880 --> 01:26:49,599
Speaker 12: governor to put shipping containers there.

1525
01:26:50,880 --> 01:26:52,120
Speaker 4: They were removed.

1526
01:26:51,800 --> 01:26:56,040
Speaker 12: Recently to be replaced with the regular baller type of

1527
01:26:56,080 --> 01:27:00,240
Speaker 12: ball the wall that you see in other places. And yes,

1528
01:27:00,640 --> 01:27:03,800
Speaker 12: you keep coming pastcal Lexico and all those areas until

1529
01:27:03,880 --> 01:27:10,920
Speaker 12: you get to Kumie Land and the yume Atai Mountains

1530
01:27:11,800 --> 01:27:15,679
Speaker 12: and all the way to what's known as Friendship Park,

1531
01:27:16,439 --> 01:27:19,599
Speaker 12: which is a BI national park located in the border

1532
01:27:20,040 --> 01:27:25,400
Speaker 12: between San Diego and Tijuana, which is the last BI

1533
01:27:25,520 --> 01:27:27,880
Speaker 12: national parker the only one that we have in the

1534
01:27:28,120 --> 01:27:32,200
Speaker 12: southern border. And now as we speak, new terry full

1535
01:27:32,280 --> 01:27:36,360
Speaker 12: walls are being built in that area as well. So

1536
01:27:37,040 --> 01:27:39,559
Speaker 12: even so President Biden said that he was not going

1537
01:27:39,600 --> 01:27:43,200
Speaker 12: to build more walls, we still see a new construction

1538
01:27:43,400 --> 01:27:44,960
Speaker 12: happening as we speak right now.

1539
01:27:45,439 --> 01:27:48,800
Speaker 11: Yeah, we've had friends of Friendship Park on our share

1540
01:27:48,880 --> 01:27:50,600
Speaker 11: before and I'm sure we will again because they do

1541
01:27:50,800 --> 01:27:52,920
Speaker 11: very important work and it's a very important space for

1542
01:27:53,720 --> 01:27:56,559
Speaker 11: so many families who are divided by the border. Yeah,

1543
01:27:57,360 --> 01:28:00,400
Speaker 11: So I think people, I guess when we talk about

1544
01:28:00,400 --> 01:28:04,640
Speaker 11: ecological impact, people always like people like big animals, right,

1545
01:28:05,120 --> 01:28:10,439
Speaker 11: it's the charismatic megapahuna, I guess that are impacted by this.

1546
01:28:10,680 --> 01:28:13,320
Speaker 11: So maybe that's a good way to look at this.

1547
01:28:13,600 --> 01:28:19,479
Speaker 11: I know that there are some jaguars. Jaguars, however, you

1548
01:28:19,560 --> 01:28:22,720
Speaker 11: want to say that that are impacted in it's my

1549
01:28:22,840 --> 01:28:27,160
Speaker 11: very British pronunciation. In Arizona, there is the bighorn sheep,

1550
01:28:27,840 --> 01:28:30,439
Speaker 11: of course, who are closer to me, right near to

1551
01:28:30,760 --> 01:28:33,559
Speaker 11: Cumba where people will have heard the scripted series by

1552
01:28:33,560 --> 01:28:35,120
Speaker 11: the time this comes out, so they'll be familiar with

1553
01:28:35,200 --> 01:28:37,720
Speaker 11: the Cumba And can you talk about the impact of

1554
01:28:37,800 --> 01:28:40,680
Speaker 11: the wall on those sort of bigger animals.

1555
01:28:41,800 --> 01:28:42,400
Speaker 4: Absolutely.

1556
01:28:42,640 --> 01:28:42,840
Speaker 8: Yeah.

1557
01:28:42,960 --> 01:28:47,560
Speaker 12: That has been our main focus as an environmental organization

1558
01:28:48,200 --> 01:28:51,920
Speaker 12: since two thousand and five when the Real id Waiver

1559
01:28:52,160 --> 01:28:56,200
Speaker 12: came up, signed by George W. Bush as a response

1560
01:28:56,360 --> 01:29:01,240
Speaker 12: to nine to eleven and the intention secure the borders.

1561
01:29:01,840 --> 01:29:04,639
Speaker 4: The Real Idea Act waved every.

1562
01:29:04,560 --> 01:29:09,839
Speaker 12: Single environmental loaw that we know, like, including the Endangered

1563
01:29:09,880 --> 01:29:15,840
Speaker 12: Species Act, Clean Water Act, the low that you can

1564
01:29:15,920 --> 01:29:19,800
Speaker 12: imagine it's included. It's about forty or more of these laws.

1565
01:29:20,760 --> 01:29:24,439
Speaker 12: We're completely waved in order to start building walls. We

1566
01:29:24,640 --> 01:29:26,960
Speaker 12: noticed right away that the first walls that are started

1567
01:29:27,040 --> 01:29:30,880
Speaker 12: coming up, it was really easy for people to go over,

1568
01:29:31,160 --> 01:29:32,240
Speaker 12: under cut.

1569
01:29:32,080 --> 01:29:33,599
Speaker 4: Through them, or go around them.

1570
01:29:33,720 --> 01:29:36,320
Speaker 12: But then we start noticing that animals were not able

1571
01:29:36,400 --> 01:29:39,800
Speaker 12: to do that anymore. We're start seeing the impacts on

1572
01:29:39,920 --> 01:29:43,439
Speaker 12: some of the species that are super important. You remember

1573
01:29:43,520 --> 01:29:47,840
Speaker 12: the species of the desert. They need to cover large

1574
01:29:47,840 --> 01:29:51,839
Speaker 12: amounts of territories to find the resources they need to survive.

1575
01:29:52,760 --> 01:29:56,879
Speaker 12: We're talking about large migration routes that go from Mexico

1576
01:29:56,960 --> 01:29:59,840
Speaker 12: into the United States back and forth. And just to

1577
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:02,559
Speaker 12: mentioned some of the species that are considered in danger

1578
01:30:03,040 --> 01:30:04,200
Speaker 12: in the area of California.

1579
01:30:04,280 --> 01:30:05,439
Speaker 4: We got the big corn chip.

1580
01:30:06,000 --> 01:30:08,200
Speaker 12: Then you start coming and there's the Sonora and Dere'sert

1581
01:30:08,320 --> 01:30:12,800
Speaker 12: pro corn into the Sero, the altar. Then we got jaguars.

1582
01:30:12,920 --> 01:30:17,560
Speaker 12: In Arizona, we have also black bears. The thing that

1583
01:30:17,680 --> 01:30:20,320
Speaker 12: makes this area so special here in Arizona is what

1584
01:30:20,479 --> 01:30:24,800
Speaker 12: we have known as the Sky Islands, which is really

1585
01:30:24,920 --> 01:30:28,040
Speaker 12: high altitude mountains that you can find some of the

1586
01:30:28,160 --> 01:30:32,320
Speaker 12: species that come from the north this is the southest

1587
01:30:32,360 --> 01:30:34,920
Speaker 12: more territory, and some of the species from the south

1588
01:30:35,000 --> 01:30:39,840
Speaker 12: this is the northest most territory. So species like jaguars

1589
01:30:40,040 --> 01:30:42,280
Speaker 12: can all of a sudden be drinking water out of

1590
01:30:42,360 --> 01:30:45,439
Speaker 12: the same pond with a black bear, and that is

1591
01:30:45,560 --> 01:30:50,240
Speaker 12: very unusual and very rare and very amazing, you know.

1592
01:30:50,439 --> 01:30:53,400
Speaker 12: So we also have ocelots, which is another type of

1593
01:30:53,680 --> 01:30:58,519
Speaker 12: cat that lives here in Arizona. We also have the

1594
01:30:58,880 --> 01:31:02,240
Speaker 12: Mexican gray walls species there is in danger that use

1595
01:31:02,320 --> 01:31:08,400
Speaker 12: these corridors back and forth, and unfortunately we haven't had

1596
01:31:09,560 --> 01:31:13,679
Speaker 12: the opportunity to track properly a lot of these animals

1597
01:31:13,800 --> 01:31:18,000
Speaker 12: to recognize their migration patterns, because a lot of these

1598
01:31:18,080 --> 01:31:22,360
Speaker 12: animals cannot be put on a GPS color for example.

1599
01:31:22,960 --> 01:31:26,320
Speaker 12: But what we have done is put a lot of

1600
01:31:26,479 --> 01:31:30,040
Speaker 12: cameras on the wilderness and we're able to photograph jawars

1601
01:31:30,120 --> 01:31:32,400
Speaker 12: on this side of the border and photograph the same

1602
01:31:32,520 --> 01:31:35,639
Speaker 12: jahwa a few years later in Mexico or vice versa.

1603
01:31:36,160 --> 01:31:38,400
Speaker 12: So there is a lot of proof that all these

1604
01:31:38,520 --> 01:31:42,080
Speaker 12: animals have been using these corridors for thousands of years.

1605
01:31:42,720 --> 01:31:45,880
Speaker 12: There is plenty of evidence that the importance of these

1606
01:31:46,400 --> 01:31:51,280
Speaker 12: wildlife corridors in the Sonoran Desert. And also we see,

1607
01:31:51,600 --> 01:31:55,439
Speaker 12: you know, like that with the construction of the border wall,

1608
01:31:55,600 --> 01:31:57,639
Speaker 12: a lot of the species that we used to see

1609
01:31:57,920 --> 01:32:01,120
Speaker 12: more often in the United States don't see as much anymore.

1610
01:32:02,080 --> 01:32:04,920
Speaker 12: Animals have a memory, so when they come and all

1611
01:32:04,960 --> 01:32:07,639
Speaker 12: of a sudden, city is really large obstacle, they're less

1612
01:32:07,760 --> 01:32:10,760
Speaker 12: likely to come back and try it again, and that

1613
01:32:10,880 --> 01:32:13,479
Speaker 12: can be an a racial thing that they came past

1614
01:32:13,520 --> 01:32:15,600
Speaker 12: it two fture generations.

1615
01:32:17,120 --> 01:32:18,640
Speaker 11: One thing that you mentioned that which I think is

1616
01:32:18,680 --> 01:32:20,599
Speaker 11: something else which it stress is like you spoke about

1617
01:32:20,760 --> 01:32:23,960
Speaker 11: how the jaguars and the past can share the same pond.

1618
01:32:24,160 --> 01:32:28,240
Speaker 11: But the wall and the roads, which we should mention

1619
01:32:28,360 --> 01:32:30,680
Speaker 11: that too, right, Like people didn't just get helicoptered in

1620
01:32:30,760 --> 01:32:32,719
Speaker 11: to build the wall. They had to first build roads

1621
01:32:32,760 --> 01:32:34,320
Speaker 11: to get to the place where the border is to

1622
01:32:34,360 --> 01:32:37,120
Speaker 11: build the wall. And can we talk about how those

1623
01:32:37,200 --> 01:32:40,280
Speaker 11: have affected drainage and water sources along the border.

1624
01:32:41,320 --> 01:32:43,479
Speaker 4: Absolutely? Yeah. Water is life.

1625
01:32:43,560 --> 01:32:47,320
Speaker 12: So here in Arizona, for example, we have two rivers

1626
01:32:47,400 --> 01:32:50,680
Speaker 12: that are actually flow on north the San Pedro River

1627
01:32:50,840 --> 01:32:54,599
Speaker 12: and the Santa Cruz River. These are rivers for example,

1628
01:32:54,720 --> 01:32:58,839
Speaker 12: San Pedro is born in Mexico and the Santa Cruz

1629
01:32:59,160 --> 01:33:00,000
Speaker 12: comes in the United.

1630
01:32:59,800 --> 01:33:02,360
Speaker 4: States, then goes down to Mexico and then goes up again.

1631
01:33:03,040 --> 01:33:07,720
Speaker 12: And a lot of the drainage that has been one

1632
01:33:07,760 --> 01:33:10,880
Speaker 12: of the biggest issues that we have encounter because the

1633
01:33:11,040 --> 01:33:13,840
Speaker 12: wall acts like a dam almost and in a lot

1634
01:33:13,880 --> 01:33:17,280
Speaker 12: of places doesn't allow the water to flow as it

1635
01:33:17,439 --> 01:33:20,400
Speaker 12: used to, and that is going to bring an impact

1636
01:33:20,479 --> 01:33:23,439
Speaker 12: to all of the different species of animals, but also

1637
01:33:23,560 --> 01:33:27,240
Speaker 12: the plants that depend on this water to survive. So

1638
01:33:29,760 --> 01:33:33,400
Speaker 12: when the construction of the border wall came, you mentioned roads,

1639
01:33:33,600 --> 01:33:37,040
Speaker 12: and the road right next or adjacent to the wall.

1640
01:33:37,560 --> 01:33:42,160
Speaker 12: Now it's like a four or five line road in

1641
01:33:42,280 --> 01:33:47,120
Speaker 12: some places, and it's been also increased the elevation. So

1642
01:33:48,120 --> 01:33:51,800
Speaker 12: when you increase the elevation on these roads and do

1643
01:33:52,000 --> 01:33:54,519
Speaker 12: not have the proper drainage on the areas that need

1644
01:33:54,640 --> 01:33:57,280
Speaker 12: to be and then you're going to have water being

1645
01:33:57,439 --> 01:33:59,599
Speaker 12: stuck on one side or the oider of the border,

1646
01:34:00,040 --> 01:34:01,880
Speaker 12: not able to make it to the areas where it

1647
01:34:02,040 --> 01:34:05,120
Speaker 12: used to flow normally. So we might not see the

1648
01:34:05,200 --> 01:34:08,600
Speaker 12: consequences and the first year or the second year, but

1649
01:34:08,720 --> 01:34:11,479
Speaker 12: we can start seeing consequences in a few years from now.

1650
01:34:11,760 --> 01:34:14,880
Speaker 12: Several plants all of a sudden starting to die because

1651
01:34:14,960 --> 01:34:18,519
Speaker 12: they didn't have the water that their habita used to

1652
01:34:18,600 --> 01:34:20,720
Speaker 12: provide for them. So that's why they grew there on

1653
01:34:20,800 --> 01:34:23,320
Speaker 12: the first place. So we might see a lot of

1654
01:34:23,520 --> 01:34:27,479
Speaker 12: changes on the landscape in regards of the way that

1655
01:34:27,600 --> 01:34:29,599
Speaker 12: the water moved on those places.

1656
01:34:30,240 --> 01:34:32,880
Speaker 11: Yeah, So another thing I want to address is like

1657
01:34:33,400 --> 01:34:35,920
Speaker 11: the we talked about plants, right, and a number of

1658
01:34:36,040 --> 01:34:40,519
Speaker 11: cacti specifically, like cacti that is sacred to to Hona

1659
01:34:40,520 --> 01:34:44,240
Speaker 11: Autumn people have been either moved or destroyed in the

1660
01:34:45,000 --> 01:34:48,519
Speaker 11: construction of the wall around organ pipe and like just

1661
01:34:48,800 --> 01:34:52,479
Speaker 11: not on their reservation, but very much on their unseated homelands.

1662
01:34:52,560 --> 01:34:56,879
Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, Yeah, there's a water cactus. It is considered

1663
01:34:56,880 --> 01:34:59,080
Speaker 4: as a relative autumn.

1664
01:34:59,240 --> 01:35:05,479
Speaker 12: So just imagine the sentiment of the Tona autem people

1665
01:35:05,600 --> 01:35:10,240
Speaker 12: by looking at the sawados being shopped or bulldoze on

1666
01:35:10,400 --> 01:35:14,479
Speaker 12: these areas considered sacred for them. So there was definitely

1667
01:35:14,560 --> 01:35:18,680
Speaker 12: a lot of that happening. There is an airport, but

1668
01:35:18,920 --> 01:35:23,160
Speaker 12: we haven't seen it yet. It's just on written right

1669
01:35:23,240 --> 01:35:25,759
Speaker 12: now that they're going to revegitate some of these areas

1670
01:35:25,800 --> 01:35:26,680
Speaker 12: that got impacted.

1671
01:35:27,160 --> 01:35:28,880
Speaker 4: We're still waiting for that.

1672
01:35:29,800 --> 01:35:32,639
Speaker 11: Yeah, and that stuff always comes like last and slowest

1673
01:35:33,160 --> 01:35:35,400
Speaker 11: if it happens at all. And I know, like both

1674
01:35:35,520 --> 01:35:40,519
Speaker 11: the Kumii the Autumn, I'm sure other Tahona Autumn other

1675
01:35:40,600 --> 01:35:44,760
Speaker 11: tribes have had their their ancestral burial grounds as you mentioned, destroyed,

1676
01:35:44,840 --> 01:35:47,240
Speaker 11: and for a similar reason to the real Idea act.

1677
01:35:47,320 --> 01:35:48,880
Speaker 11: I think it was different. I think this was because

1678
01:35:48,880 --> 01:35:50,560
Speaker 11: it was done in an executive order and it was

1679
01:35:50,600 --> 01:35:54,280
Speaker 11: an emergency that they waived a lot of those. Normally

1680
01:35:54,360 --> 01:35:56,640
Speaker 11: they would have tribal nations would have the right to

1681
01:35:56,760 --> 01:36:00,720
Speaker 11: sort of inspect and do a survey before digging back.

1682
01:36:00,720 --> 01:36:03,240
Speaker 11: I know in twenty twenty they weren't doing that, right.

1683
01:36:04,439 --> 01:36:08,200
Speaker 4: No, they didn't know. So the Real Idea Act also

1684
01:36:08,479 --> 01:36:10,840
Speaker 4: has a law there to protect.

1685
01:36:12,160 --> 01:36:15,840
Speaker 12: Archaeological resources, so they were able to do those things

1686
01:36:16,640 --> 01:36:20,400
Speaker 12: even when there was if it was on federal land

1687
01:36:21,240 --> 01:36:25,000
Speaker 12: and it was an indigenous sacred site.

1688
01:36:25,760 --> 01:36:25,960
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1689
01:36:26,680 --> 01:36:29,000
Speaker 11: So another thing talking of federal land that we should

1690
01:36:29,000 --> 01:36:33,040
Speaker 11: probably mention is this concept of the Roosevelt Reservation that

1691
01:36:33,360 --> 01:36:35,880
Speaker 11: people might not be familiar with. Can you explain what

1692
01:36:36,040 --> 01:36:36,880
Speaker 11: that is to folks?

1693
01:36:37,960 --> 01:36:39,120
Speaker 4: The Roosevelt Reservation.

1694
01:36:39,439 --> 01:36:42,800
Speaker 12: It is the area the border about sixty feet away

1695
01:36:43,000 --> 01:36:49,760
Speaker 12: from where the border line or division is, and that's

1696
01:36:49,840 --> 01:36:53,240
Speaker 12: what's known as the Roosevelt Reservation. So that is an

1697
01:36:53,320 --> 01:37:02,320
Speaker 12: area that's right now mostly managed by CBP Border patron and.

1698
01:37:02,439 --> 01:37:06,800
Speaker 11: People can't it's like technically not it can't be private land,

1699
01:37:06,880 --> 01:37:08,720
Speaker 11: right or the government can take it at any point,

1700
01:37:08,800 --> 01:37:12,040
Speaker 11: Is that right exactly? I know that's what they were

1701
01:37:12,120 --> 01:37:16,120
Speaker 11: using in the case of the around Campo. That's what

1702
01:37:16,360 --> 01:37:18,960
Speaker 11: that's what they were doing. One thing I think we've

1703
01:37:19,160 --> 01:37:21,920
Speaker 11: neglected to do. I guess I spent half my life

1704
01:37:21,960 --> 01:37:23,960
Speaker 11: trying to do this. But I'll let you take a

1705
01:37:24,000 --> 01:37:27,200
Speaker 11: swing at it. Is like, can you describe these desert

1706
01:37:27,320 --> 01:37:31,680
Speaker 11: landscapes for people who are because people think of the desert, right,

1707
01:37:31,720 --> 01:37:34,320
Speaker 11: and they think of Osita wells like where where people

1708
01:37:34,360 --> 01:37:36,120
Speaker 11: like to go drive their vehicles, you know, and it

1709
01:37:36,200 --> 01:37:40,240
Speaker 11: looks like like Saudi Arabia. But that's not most of

1710
01:37:40,360 --> 01:37:43,479
Speaker 11: the desert. The desert is actually a very live place

1711
01:37:43,800 --> 01:37:46,719
Speaker 11: and a place full of like life that has struggled

1712
01:37:46,760 --> 01:37:49,479
Speaker 11: and made a way to exist there, can you explain.

1713
01:37:49,640 --> 01:37:53,680
Speaker 11: And it's a very special place, not just sort of

1714
01:37:55,120 --> 01:37:58,240
Speaker 11: because it's it's unique, but it has a real sort

1715
01:37:58,280 --> 01:38:00,639
Speaker 11: of well yeah, it has a uniqueness you can't really

1716
01:38:00,640 --> 01:38:01,679
Speaker 11: feel anywhere else in the world.

1717
01:38:01,720 --> 01:38:05,560
Speaker 4: I guess yes, Thank you, James. I definitely agree with

1718
01:38:05,640 --> 01:38:06,040
Speaker 4: you on that.

1719
01:38:06,760 --> 01:38:10,600
Speaker 12: As a person that grew up here and had this

1720
01:38:10,800 --> 01:38:16,000
Speaker 12: deep appreciation for the desert environment, I think it's it

1721
01:38:16,120 --> 01:38:19,760
Speaker 12: is such a beautiful area, and not only beautiful on

1722
01:38:19,840 --> 01:38:24,519
Speaker 12: the sense that it's The Sonoran Desert, for example, is

1723
01:38:24,680 --> 01:38:27,400
Speaker 12: considered the most biodiverse.

1724
01:38:26,840 --> 01:38:27,800
Speaker 4: Desert in the world.

1725
01:38:28,520 --> 01:38:31,519
Speaker 12: So yeah, so it's considered a desert because the amount

1726
01:38:31,560 --> 01:38:34,559
Speaker 12: of water that we have, but the amount of species

1727
01:38:35,000 --> 01:38:37,519
Speaker 12: it matches no other desert in the world. Here we

1728
01:38:37,640 --> 01:38:41,000
Speaker 12: have the most species of plants, most species of animals,

1729
01:38:41,720 --> 01:38:45,479
Speaker 12: and only for people like and people goes out there

1730
01:38:45,600 --> 01:38:48,040
Speaker 12: sometimes on a hike on the desert and might not

1731
01:38:48,200 --> 01:38:51,280
Speaker 12: see much of the wildlife there or older than the birds,

1732
01:38:51,400 --> 01:38:53,840
Speaker 12: and especially on areas where there is a little bit

1733
01:38:53,880 --> 01:38:56,640
Speaker 12: of water. But you got to remember also that the

1734
01:38:56,720 --> 01:39:00,280
Speaker 12: desert comes most alive at night, so that's when all

1735
01:39:00,400 --> 01:39:03,880
Speaker 12: the species you know that are not wanting to hang

1736
01:39:03,920 --> 01:39:06,360
Speaker 12: out on the heat of the desert, they come out

1737
01:39:06,520 --> 01:39:09,559
Speaker 12: and this place becomes like a whole other place at night.

1738
01:39:09,720 --> 01:39:15,840
Speaker 12: So it is it is definitely worth protecting this and

1739
01:39:16,040 --> 01:39:20,280
Speaker 12: every single desert, you know, because sometimes as we might

1740
01:39:20,360 --> 01:39:24,040
Speaker 12: not see the biodiversity in our first visit, it's there,

1741
01:39:24,280 --> 01:39:29,320
Speaker 12: and we like the amounts of plants and animals wor

1742
01:39:29,479 --> 01:39:32,519
Speaker 12: enough to sustain entire populations of people as well in

1743
01:39:32,600 --> 01:39:37,360
Speaker 12: the past. So I think once you build a relationship

1744
01:39:37,400 --> 01:39:41,040
Speaker 12: with the desert and able to experience, you and everybody

1745
01:39:41,160 --> 01:39:46,840
Speaker 12: that I have talked starts developing this really deep appreciation.

1746
01:39:46,479 --> 01:39:47,280
Speaker 4: For it for sure.

1747
01:39:48,000 --> 01:39:50,519
Speaker 11: Yeah, it sort of pulls you in once you once

1748
01:39:50,600 --> 01:39:54,479
Speaker 11: you appreciate, Yeah, you become a desert person. We're talking

1749
01:39:54,520 --> 01:39:57,439
Speaker 11: about this cumber the other day. How like you just

1750
01:39:57,520 --> 01:39:59,360
Speaker 11: turn into a desert. You know, you can see who

1751
01:39:59,400 --> 01:40:02,240
Speaker 11: the desert people are and here the people who haven't

1752
01:40:02,240 --> 01:40:05,600
Speaker 11: been at there before. So obviously the desert is a

1753
01:40:05,640 --> 01:40:07,840
Speaker 11: beautiful place and a very diverse place, but it's not

1754
01:40:07,960 --> 01:40:11,639
Speaker 11: a place that it is necessarily easy to cross, right,

1755
01:40:11,840 --> 01:40:16,040
Speaker 11: and when we as you've explained so well, there the

1756
01:40:16,120 --> 01:40:18,439
Speaker 11: wall is not a contiguous thing. It's full of gaps

1757
01:40:18,479 --> 01:40:20,519
Speaker 11: and holes and a lot of the places where there

1758
01:40:20,520 --> 01:40:23,680
Speaker 11: are gaps of places where it's hard to build and

1759
01:40:23,760 --> 01:40:27,280
Speaker 11: therefore it's hard to cross. Can you explain what this

1760
01:40:28,360 --> 01:40:30,639
Speaker 11: It creates a funnel, right, like a funneling effect through

1761
01:40:30,680 --> 01:40:33,880
Speaker 11: the gap sometimes. Can you explain what that means for

1762
01:40:33,960 --> 01:40:35,200
Speaker 11: people who are crossing north.

1763
01:40:37,439 --> 01:40:43,479
Speaker 12: Yeah, there is a huge issue these funnels or areas

1764
01:40:43,520 --> 01:40:46,720
Speaker 12: where there are no walls, because what's been happening and

1765
01:40:46,840 --> 01:40:51,880
Speaker 12: we observe is that as more people start going to

1766
01:40:52,000 --> 01:40:56,200
Speaker 12: these really remote areas of the desert, we have two issues.

1767
01:40:56,280 --> 01:40:59,439
Speaker 12: You know, First, people is putting themselves on bigger danger

1768
01:41:00,040 --> 01:41:01,960
Speaker 12: and they're more likely to.

1769
01:41:03,600 --> 01:41:05,760
Speaker 4: Get themselves hurt and some of them die.

1770
01:41:06,080 --> 01:41:10,720
Speaker 12: So as also, you start pushing up people to more

1771
01:41:10,800 --> 01:41:14,080
Speaker 12: remote areas out in the desert where it used to

1772
01:41:14,160 --> 01:41:18,600
Speaker 12: be these nature pristine environments. Now we have the impacts

1773
01:41:18,920 --> 01:41:21,519
Speaker 12: of people moving through these areas, and not only the

1774
01:41:21,600 --> 01:41:24,360
Speaker 12: impacts of the people, but you got the impacts of

1775
01:41:24,520 --> 01:41:29,280
Speaker 12: border patrol in the area with their trucks and draging

1776
01:41:29,400 --> 01:41:31,480
Speaker 12: tires to erase their footprints.

1777
01:41:31,760 --> 01:41:33,839
Speaker 4: And these are really fragile soils.

1778
01:41:33,880 --> 01:41:38,320
Speaker 12: Already opening new roads through the desert with ATVs or

1779
01:41:38,439 --> 01:41:42,280
Speaker 12: flying helicopters on these mountains, or drones or putting lights

1780
01:41:42,360 --> 01:41:45,160
Speaker 12: in the middle of an areas where it used to

1781
01:41:45,240 --> 01:41:48,519
Speaker 12: be one of the most darkest skies in the country.

1782
01:41:48,960 --> 01:41:54,600
Speaker 12: So all of those put together create huge issues for

1783
01:41:55,160 --> 01:41:56,920
Speaker 12: people and the environment as well.

1784
01:41:57,360 --> 01:41:57,599
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1785
01:41:57,760 --> 01:42:01,479
Speaker 11: Yeah, the light thing you mentioned is very I don't know,

1786
01:42:01,600 --> 01:42:05,400
Speaker 11: people again who haven't been to the desert won't understand

1787
01:42:05,520 --> 01:42:07,439
Speaker 11: how much more you can see when like there is

1788
01:42:07,560 --> 01:42:09,760
Speaker 11: no like hundreds of miles and there's a place I

1789
01:42:09,880 --> 01:42:12,320
Speaker 11: like to go which recently got a border patrol like substation,

1790
01:42:12,520 --> 01:42:15,760
Speaker 11: and now it's just like glowing and you can't see

1791
01:42:15,800 --> 01:42:19,240
Speaker 11: the milky way in things. In addition to the human impact,

1792
01:42:19,280 --> 01:42:21,360
Speaker 11: which is we said is terrible, right, Like I think

1793
01:42:22,479 --> 01:42:25,479
Speaker 11: eight one hundred and sixty people Border Patrol found in

1794
01:42:25,520 --> 01:42:28,360
Speaker 11: twenty twenty two had died crossing north. That's a very

1795
01:42:28,520 --> 01:42:30,960
Speaker 11: low estimate for the amount of people who died, and

1796
01:42:31,840 --> 01:42:35,400
Speaker 11: Border Patrol are kind of actively trying not to count

1797
01:42:35,479 --> 01:42:39,240
Speaker 11: all of the deaths according to agents I've spoken to.

1798
01:42:39,439 --> 01:42:39,800
Speaker 4: Right, So.

1799
01:42:42,080 --> 01:42:45,040
Speaker 11: This is a difficult topic because it's it's a horrible

1800
01:42:45,120 --> 01:42:49,960
Speaker 11: thing that like shouldn't happen. But I guess can we

1801
01:42:50,120 --> 01:42:54,559
Speaker 11: discuss how lethal these the wall is for people crossing

1802
01:42:54,640 --> 01:42:56,439
Speaker 11: north if you're comfortable talking about that.

1803
01:42:57,840 --> 01:43:02,760
Speaker 12: Yeah, Well, really the design of it, like on most

1804
01:43:02,800 --> 01:43:05,840
Speaker 12: of the places, it's a thirty foot wall with a

1805
01:43:05,960 --> 01:43:07,240
Speaker 12: metal plate on the top.

1806
01:43:07,560 --> 01:43:10,000
Speaker 5: And this for some.

1807
01:43:11,840 --> 01:43:15,960
Speaker 12: Sources I have heard that it was designed because when

1808
01:43:16,000 --> 01:43:18,640
Speaker 12: people reach a thirty food high they start kind of

1809
01:43:18,840 --> 01:43:24,200
Speaker 12: getting dizzy or nauseous, so they're more likely to fall down.

1810
01:43:24,320 --> 01:43:27,200
Speaker 12: So it's already like a dead apparatus, you know, like

1811
01:43:27,360 --> 01:43:31,400
Speaker 12: designed to kill. Still, people will venture and give it

1812
01:43:31,479 --> 01:43:35,240
Speaker 12: a try. Some young folks are almost it's kind of

1813
01:43:35,920 --> 01:43:38,720
Speaker 12: funny to see them climb how fast they're able to

1814
01:43:38,800 --> 01:43:41,800
Speaker 12: do it, but we got to remember that not only

1815
01:43:42,040 --> 01:43:45,280
Speaker 12: like young folks are trying to climb. You know, sometimes

1816
01:43:45,320 --> 01:43:49,880
Speaker 12: there is an older lady or sometimes an older man

1817
01:43:50,080 --> 01:43:53,160
Speaker 12: that wants to give it a try. And the rate

1818
01:43:53,280 --> 01:43:58,080
Speaker 12: of injuries definitely has increased. So much of people falling

1819
01:43:58,720 --> 01:44:01,800
Speaker 12: because they got this year, they got naushalls, they burn

1820
01:44:01,880 --> 01:44:06,639
Speaker 12: their hands, or they lost balance and then fall from

1821
01:44:06,720 --> 01:44:07,559
Speaker 12: thirty feet high.

1822
01:44:07,840 --> 01:44:09,000
Speaker 4: You know, it can be lethal.

1823
01:44:09,560 --> 01:44:13,560
Speaker 12: So we have a lot of broken legs, spine injuries,

1824
01:44:13,800 --> 01:44:17,639
Speaker 12: head trauma, people that has fall or people one person

1825
01:44:17,800 --> 01:44:21,280
Speaker 12: one time hang out from it and end up choking herself.

1826
01:44:21,560 --> 01:44:25,280
Speaker 12: So there is definitely a lot of dead when people

1827
01:44:25,400 --> 01:44:26,479
Speaker 12: try to go.

1828
01:44:26,720 --> 01:44:27,439
Speaker 4: Over the wall.

1829
01:44:27,920 --> 01:44:30,560
Speaker 12: But we also see people now just cutting through the

1830
01:44:30,640 --> 01:44:34,160
Speaker 12: bowlers so it's easier and then just put the thing back.

1831
01:44:34,240 --> 01:44:36,519
Speaker 12: So there is all kinds of people doing it in

1832
01:44:36,640 --> 01:44:39,600
Speaker 12: all different kinds of ways depending on the area, and

1833
01:44:40,880 --> 01:44:44,960
Speaker 12: we see a little bit of everything for sure. And

1834
01:44:45,080 --> 01:44:46,720
Speaker 12: of course, you know, if you try to reach for

1835
01:44:46,840 --> 01:44:50,000
Speaker 12: the gaps, then you have to do a longer hike

1836
01:44:50,800 --> 01:44:54,880
Speaker 12: and usually people is not even able to carry the

1837
01:44:54,960 --> 01:44:56,439
Speaker 12: amount of water that they need.

1838
01:44:56,760 --> 01:44:58,040
Speaker 4: To do these kind of hikes.

1839
01:44:58,520 --> 01:45:00,360
Speaker 12: We got to remember that a lot of the people

1840
01:45:00,479 --> 01:45:03,160
Speaker 12: that we encounter now in the border they come from

1841
01:45:03,320 --> 01:45:06,280
Speaker 12: other kinds of environments. They're not familiar with the desert.

1842
01:45:06,800 --> 01:45:10,120
Speaker 12: They come from tropical areas where they can find water everywhere.

1843
01:45:10,680 --> 01:45:13,519
Speaker 12: They are not used to the heat of the dry

1844
01:45:13,600 --> 01:45:14,439
Speaker 12: heat of the desert.

1845
01:45:14,600 --> 01:45:17,280
Speaker 4: They are not used to the cold of the nights

1846
01:45:17,320 --> 01:45:20,240
Speaker 4: of the desert. So all of these factors.

1847
01:45:19,880 --> 01:45:24,040
Speaker 12: Make this environment really challenging for people to try to

1848
01:45:24,160 --> 01:45:24,519
Speaker 12: cross it.

1849
01:45:25,200 --> 01:45:26,879
Speaker 4: Yeah, tell in a lot of ways.

1850
01:45:26,720 --> 01:45:30,720
Speaker 11: Yeah, definitely. And it's a very hard environment. Like I

1851
01:45:30,760 --> 01:45:32,200
Speaker 11: spent a lot of time camping in the desert, and

1852
01:45:32,320 --> 01:45:35,679
Speaker 11: I don't think there's a yet that I've been hiking

1853
01:45:35,760 --> 01:45:38,400
Speaker 11: in the desert that I haven't rescued someone who was

1854
01:45:39,160 --> 01:45:41,280
Speaker 11: very well equipped and had just gone on a day hike,

1855
01:45:41,360 --> 01:45:44,840
Speaker 11: right and they've run out of water, they've overheated, they've

1856
01:45:44,920 --> 01:45:48,200
Speaker 11: drunk water not electrolytes, and they've got hypenetremia whatever it

1857
01:45:48,360 --> 01:45:50,519
Speaker 11: is like that. And that's people who went to our

1858
01:45:50,520 --> 01:45:52,840
Speaker 11: ei today before little learned, people who've been walking since

1859
01:45:52,880 --> 01:45:56,599
Speaker 11: the Darian Gap, or you know, people who have much

1860
01:45:56,720 --> 01:46:00,639
Speaker 11: lesser means to equip themselves. It's a very dangerous environment.

1861
01:46:01,960 --> 01:46:04,799
Speaker 11: People maybe listening and thinking, Like I think with immigration

1862
01:46:05,479 --> 01:46:09,639
Speaker 11: issues and specifically with the wall and the border, it's

1863
01:46:09,680 --> 01:46:12,720
Speaker 11: such an apparatus right the whole, you know, DHS and

1864
01:46:12,720 --> 01:46:15,200
Speaker 11: its one hundred and seventy five billion dollar budget. It's

1865
01:46:15,240 --> 01:46:20,840
Speaker 11: such an apparatus that people can feel powerless in trying

1866
01:46:21,000 --> 01:46:23,519
Speaker 11: to just put a stop to this, to make this change,

1867
01:46:23,600 --> 01:46:26,679
Speaker 11: to make this even you know, a little bit more humane,

1868
01:46:27,439 --> 01:46:29,560
Speaker 11: just so we seem to like ratch it up the

1869
01:46:29,760 --> 01:46:33,799
Speaker 11: evil meter every year at the border, regardless of Democrats

1870
01:46:33,880 --> 01:46:37,240
Speaker 11: or Republicans, Like, it doesn't matter. What would you suggest,

1871
01:46:37,280 --> 01:46:40,400
Speaker 11: folks listening can do to make it more humane, to

1872
01:46:41,560 --> 01:46:47,439
Speaker 11: advocate for like even less impactful border policies on the

1873
01:46:47,520 --> 01:46:48,960
Speaker 11: environment or on people.

1874
01:46:51,240 --> 01:46:53,320
Speaker 12: Yeah, I think we need to look at what we

1875
01:46:53,479 --> 01:46:56,519
Speaker 12: have done so far and look at the results. You know,

1876
01:46:56,800 --> 01:47:01,560
Speaker 12: I think we can see that in some areas to

1877
01:47:01,640 --> 01:47:05,439
Speaker 12: build a border wall a mile of border wall, we're

1878
01:47:05,520 --> 01:47:09,920
Speaker 12: spending over thirty million dollars, and I think it's important

1879
01:47:10,040 --> 01:47:12,200
Speaker 12: to think about what can.

1880
01:47:12,080 --> 01:47:13,000
Speaker 4: We do with that money.

1881
01:47:13,040 --> 01:47:15,120
Speaker 12: You know, there is a lot of resources that we

1882
01:47:15,320 --> 01:47:20,759
Speaker 12: have used for this false sense of security a border

1883
01:47:20,840 --> 01:47:25,560
Speaker 12: wall can give us, and it's just not working the

1884
01:47:25,640 --> 01:47:27,920
Speaker 12: way it's supposed to be working, and it's putting a

1885
01:47:28,000 --> 01:47:31,920
Speaker 12: lot of pressure on the environment. And if we really

1886
01:47:32,240 --> 01:47:34,720
Speaker 12: care about the environment, I think that should not be

1887
01:47:35,640 --> 01:47:39,760
Speaker 12: after talk conversation because I think when we listen to

1888
01:47:40,000 --> 01:47:43,000
Speaker 12: politicians and it's our next time to go out to vote,

1889
01:47:43,120 --> 01:47:46,360
Speaker 12: we need to really start asking the questions about the environment.

1890
01:47:46,840 --> 01:47:53,000
Speaker 4: I know it's important that we here in the border narrative.

1891
01:47:52,640 --> 01:47:59,360
Speaker 12: Of politicians talking about immigration, border security, trade with Mexico,

1892
01:47:59,680 --> 01:48:02,799
Speaker 12: but there is very little talk in the border around

1893
01:48:02,840 --> 01:48:06,000
Speaker 12: the environmental issues, you know, and that shouldn't be an afterthought.

1894
01:48:07,439 --> 01:48:10,759
Speaker 12: Border people, people that lives in the borderlands also should

1895
01:48:10,800 --> 01:48:14,960
Speaker 12: have a chance to live on a on a good environment,

1896
01:48:15,080 --> 01:48:19,600
Speaker 12: a clean environment. Yeah and yeah, So I think a

1897
01:48:19,720 --> 01:48:22,720
Speaker 12: solution or for people things that they can do is

1898
01:48:22,800 --> 01:48:27,599
Speaker 12: definitely like ask those questions when it's time to bote

1899
01:48:27,920 --> 01:48:32,920
Speaker 12: and see how can we really address root causes. You know,

1900
01:48:34,080 --> 01:48:37,960
Speaker 12: the border wall is just a medieval solution that it's

1901
01:48:38,280 --> 01:48:39,800
Speaker 12: really trying to stop such a.

1902
01:48:41,560 --> 01:48:45,160
Speaker 4: Complex issue. By doing that, it's not going to work out.

1903
01:48:45,320 --> 01:48:50,280
Speaker 12: So it's originally Border Patrol said that the border wall

1904
01:48:50,479 --> 01:48:52,800
Speaker 12: is just the only intention it has is to slow

1905
01:48:52,880 --> 01:48:55,800
Speaker 12: down people for at least five minutes. Well, is it

1906
01:48:55,920 --> 01:48:58,320
Speaker 12: really worth it then, you know, to slow them five

1907
01:48:58,400 --> 01:49:01,960
Speaker 12: more minutes to all these impacts and all these expenses

1908
01:49:02,040 --> 01:49:02,599
Speaker 12: that we're doing.

1909
01:49:03,360 --> 01:49:03,479
Speaker 2: Uh.

1910
01:49:03,960 --> 01:49:07,160
Speaker 12: And the maintenance that nobody has talked about yet is

1911
01:49:07,320 --> 01:49:10,280
Speaker 12: that we have sections of the wall already that they're

1912
01:49:10,360 --> 01:49:13,400
Speaker 12: falling apart because it was just thrown up really fast.

1913
01:49:13,479 --> 01:49:13,640
Speaker 3: You know.

1914
01:49:13,800 --> 01:49:17,880
Speaker 12: The erosion is already exposing the foundation. And we are

1915
01:49:17,960 --> 01:49:21,080
Speaker 12: looking at millions of millions of dollars that will come

1916
01:49:21,560 --> 01:49:24,040
Speaker 12: just to try to keep it every year after every

1917
01:49:24,120 --> 01:49:24,880
Speaker 12: monsoon season.

1918
01:49:25,439 --> 01:49:25,679
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1919
01:49:25,800 --> 01:49:28,720
Speaker 11: Yeah, I know in the on the real grand as well,

1920
01:49:28,800 --> 01:49:32,479
Speaker 11: like the wake from the border patrol boats is causing

1921
01:49:32,520 --> 01:49:35,920
Speaker 11: the river to undercut the foundation of the wall. Yeah,

1922
01:49:36,439 --> 01:49:41,120
Speaker 11: which is fantastic on the part of the government. Good work.

1923
01:49:41,280 --> 01:49:44,559
Speaker 11: And yeah, Eric, where can people follow you and your

1924
01:49:44,600 --> 01:49:46,519
Speaker 11: efforts if they want to, if they want to follow

1925
01:49:46,520 --> 01:49:49,759
Speaker 11: along online and maybe see some pitches of the border

1926
01:49:49,840 --> 01:49:51,040
Speaker 11: and hear more about what you're doing.

1927
01:49:52,360 --> 01:49:53,080
Speaker 4: Thank you, James.

1928
01:49:53,080 --> 01:49:56,200
Speaker 12: I appreciate that we do have a website, a Sierra

1929
01:49:56,320 --> 01:50:00,200
Speaker 12: Club Border Length. You can learn all about the waivers there.

1930
01:50:00,920 --> 01:50:03,320
Speaker 12: You can learn a lot of the work that we've

1931
01:50:03,360 --> 01:50:05,679
Speaker 12: been doing in the past. We're part of a larger

1932
01:50:05,840 --> 01:50:12,280
Speaker 12: coalition of environmental related border organizations. We work with people

1933
01:50:12,439 --> 01:50:15,920
Speaker 12: all the way from California through Texas, but mostly here

1934
01:50:16,000 --> 01:50:20,000
Speaker 12: in Arizona. And we have our social media cre A

1935
01:50:20,080 --> 01:50:23,960
Speaker 12: Club Borderlands. You can find us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram,

1936
01:50:24,479 --> 01:50:27,120
Speaker 12: all of the different We have a YouTube channel as well,

1937
01:50:27,479 --> 01:50:29,680
Speaker 12: and you can see some of the videos of the

1938
01:50:29,800 --> 01:50:34,040
Speaker 12: documenting that we do. We're able to go down to

1939
01:50:34,160 --> 01:50:37,439
Speaker 12: the boorder document with drawn so people can actually look

1940
01:50:37,520 --> 01:50:41,519
Speaker 12: at the irony of the whole project. We do also

1941
01:50:41,640 --> 01:50:44,519
Speaker 12: autiings that we take people out into the desert to

1942
01:50:46,479 --> 01:50:49,800
Speaker 12: get familiar with the issues themselves. We do clean up

1943
01:50:50,800 --> 01:50:54,840
Speaker 12: at the local rivers and collaborate with other organizations, all

1944
01:50:54,920 --> 01:50:57,679
Speaker 12: kinds of works. So with people and the audiences based

1945
01:50:57,720 --> 01:51:00,200
Speaker 12: here in Arizona, they're welcome to join us to some

1946
01:51:00,360 --> 01:51:03,200
Speaker 12: of these audience or activities that we do with the community.

1947
01:51:04,320 --> 01:51:07,000
Speaker 12: We are going to do an announcement probably in the

1948
01:51:07,080 --> 01:51:12,080
Speaker 12: next month because since twenty nineteen, Sierra Club, in collaboration

1949
01:51:12,280 --> 01:51:16,080
Speaker 12: with the Southern Border Community coalitions to the federal government

1950
01:51:16,960 --> 01:51:20,360
Speaker 12: for the legal use of funds of the two eighty

1951
01:51:20,400 --> 01:51:24,040
Speaker 12: four and two eight h eight funds, which were funds

1952
01:51:24,080 --> 01:51:28,679
Speaker 12: that were originally allocated for the military and drug related

1953
01:51:29,000 --> 01:51:32,200
Speaker 12: programs that were used to border work construction.

1954
01:51:32,400 --> 01:51:33,840
Speaker 4: So we sue the government and.

1955
01:51:33,960 --> 01:51:37,000
Speaker 12: We're about to settle on this and we're hoping that

1956
01:51:37,080 --> 01:51:40,680
Speaker 12: we're going to get good results on environmental remediation and

1957
01:51:40,840 --> 01:51:43,360
Speaker 12: wildlife passages along the southern border.

1958
01:51:43,840 --> 01:51:47,040
Speaker 11: Oh great, that's good to hear. Yeah, there are a

1959
01:51:47,120 --> 01:51:50,479
Speaker 11: lot of lawsuits. Individual tribes suit the government as well

1960
01:51:50,680 --> 01:51:53,639
Speaker 11: for that, and so we'll have to do a lawsuit

1961
01:51:53,760 --> 01:51:56,479
Speaker 11: roundup one day and have you back. Well, thank you

1962
01:51:56,600 --> 01:51:58,840
Speaker 11: very much, Eric, thank you for joining us and sharing

1963
01:51:58,880 --> 01:52:00,000
Speaker 11: some of your experiences along.

1964
01:51:59,840 --> 01:52:05,120
Speaker 4: The Absolutely thank you for the invitation, and I'll see

1965
01:52:05,640 --> 01:52:06,320
Speaker 4: talk to you soon.

1966
01:52:06,600 --> 01:52:25,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh boy, it could happen here a podcast about

1967
01:52:25,760 --> 01:52:28,920
Speaker 1: what we like to call the crumbles, which is the

1968
01:52:29,120 --> 01:52:34,160
Speaker 1: process of the aspects of modern life that were nice

1969
01:52:34,280 --> 01:52:38,479
Speaker 1: and convenient and functional breaking down as the climate and

1970
01:52:38,600 --> 01:52:43,720
Speaker 1: our political systems continue to fray around the edges and

1971
01:52:43,920 --> 01:52:47,960
Speaker 1: gradually collapse. Today a lot of you are living through

1972
01:52:48,200 --> 01:52:51,439
Speaker 1: a pretty undeniable piece of that. If you're anywhere kind

1973
01:52:51,439 --> 01:52:53,960
Speaker 1: of in the Eastern Seaboard, if you're in New York City,

1974
01:52:54,360 --> 01:52:56,599
Speaker 1: if you're in Philly, if you're in d C. If

1975
01:52:56,680 --> 01:53:00,160
Speaker 1: you're in one of the other places. At Baltimore, you're

1976
01:53:00,200 --> 01:53:03,040
Speaker 1: dealing with air quality the likes of which you've probably

1977
01:53:03,200 --> 01:53:06,960
Speaker 1: never seen unless you fled there from the West Coast.

1978
01:53:08,120 --> 01:53:11,360
Speaker 1: Basically everyone who lives in the northeast of the United

1979
01:53:11,400 --> 01:53:14,200
Speaker 1: States right now, as well as a huge number of Canadians,

1980
01:53:14,960 --> 01:53:18,639
Speaker 1: are absolutely cloaked in wildfire smoke, drowning in the ghosts

1981
01:53:18,720 --> 01:53:22,240
Speaker 1: of a thousand forests. And that's a bummer. It's a bummer,

1982
01:53:22,360 --> 01:53:25,800
Speaker 1: and it's a real problem. And so I wanted to

1983
01:53:25,880 --> 01:53:32,160
Speaker 1: kind of sit down with Margaret Killjoy, our resident Prepper extraordinaire. Hi, Margaret, Hello,

1984
01:53:32,600 --> 01:53:32,880
Speaker 1: how are you?

1985
01:53:33,120 --> 01:53:33,320
Speaker 4: Yeah?

1986
01:53:34,640 --> 01:53:37,840
Speaker 1: Doing great? Because we're not drowning in wildfire smoke. But

1987
01:53:38,600 --> 01:53:41,479
Speaker 1: three years ago in Portland in twenty twenty, the air

1988
01:53:41,560 --> 01:53:43,720
Speaker 1: quality was even worse than it is in New York

1989
01:53:43,760 --> 01:53:48,240
Speaker 1: City right now. So I've got some experience dealing with this,

1990
01:53:49,080 --> 01:53:51,400
Speaker 1: and Margaret, you spend a lot of time thinking about

1991
01:53:51,520 --> 01:53:55,439
Speaker 1: practical prepping, and that's something that I think a lot

1992
01:53:55,520 --> 01:53:58,840
Speaker 1: of folks probably are wishing that they had spent more

1993
01:53:58,920 --> 01:54:00,960
Speaker 1: time doing right now. This is the kind of thing

1994
01:54:01,000 --> 01:54:04,040
Speaker 1: that happens. You know, it's not on you know, anybody

1995
01:54:04,160 --> 01:54:06,599
Speaker 1: is like a moral thing. But it happens anytime there's

1996
01:54:06,640 --> 01:54:10,960
Speaker 1: a disaster that affects everybody at once, all the stuff

1997
01:54:11,080 --> 01:54:14,800
Speaker 1: that is useful for countering that disaster sells out or

1998
01:54:15,000 --> 01:54:19,240
Speaker 1: is looted very very quickly, and then people suddenly don't

1999
01:54:19,280 --> 01:54:22,040
Speaker 1: have the kind of options for tools that they need.

2000
01:54:23,560 --> 01:54:26,600
Speaker 1: You know, this is not great. So I wanted to

2001
01:54:26,680 --> 01:54:28,880
Speaker 1: kind of sit down first off and kind of talk

2002
01:54:28,920 --> 01:54:31,960
Speaker 1: about one of the better airsats tools that you can

2003
01:54:32,040 --> 01:54:34,760
Speaker 1: put together if you are trying to deal with the

2004
01:54:34,880 --> 01:54:38,080
Speaker 1: problem of making your air cleaner. And basically we have

2005
01:54:38,160 --> 01:54:40,600
Speaker 1: to kind of split this problem into two. Right, there

2006
01:54:40,680 --> 01:54:42,320
Speaker 1: is the problem of what do I do if I'm

2007
01:54:42,360 --> 01:54:44,960
Speaker 1: going outside, and we'll talk about that later. But there's

2008
01:54:45,200 --> 01:54:47,720
Speaker 1: stuff that you purchase, you know, that is the only

2009
01:54:47,800 --> 01:54:50,200
Speaker 1: things that's going or stuff that you already had on

2010
01:54:50,320 --> 01:54:52,560
Speaker 1: hand is all that's going to help in that instance.

2011
01:54:52,680 --> 01:54:55,120
Speaker 1: But there are some things you can do to keep

2012
01:54:55,160 --> 01:55:00,400
Speaker 1: your inside space clean of particulate and relatively safe that

2013
01:55:00,560 --> 01:55:03,680
Speaker 1: don't require at least as many things to purchase, and

2014
01:55:03,800 --> 01:55:06,400
Speaker 1: that are you know, can be made with stuff that

2015
01:55:06,480 --> 01:55:11,680
Speaker 1: you probably are likelier to have on hand. So I

2016
01:55:11,800 --> 01:55:14,520
Speaker 1: want to talk first about what you can do to

2017
01:55:14,640 --> 01:55:19,080
Speaker 1: like filter your indoor air. You know, in Portland when

2018
01:55:19,120 --> 01:55:25,760
Speaker 1: we had our horrible fucking wildfire apocalypse, yellow smog blanketing

2019
01:55:25,800 --> 01:55:28,240
Speaker 1: the world and making everything look like fucking blade Runner,

2020
01:55:28,960 --> 01:55:32,160
Speaker 1: everyone at least had gas masks and full face respirators,

2021
01:55:32,200 --> 01:55:35,320
Speaker 1: which you know, folks in the Northeast right now haven't

2022
01:55:35,360 --> 01:55:37,880
Speaker 1: gone through that experience and so don't have that kind

2023
01:55:37,880 --> 01:55:39,520
Speaker 1: of stuff on hand. But what we didn't have in

2024
01:55:39,600 --> 01:55:43,120
Speaker 1: Portland was the stuff that can keep your indoors cleaner.

2025
01:55:43,280 --> 01:55:46,720
Speaker 1: For one thing, people don't have like HEPA filters or

2026
01:55:46,800 --> 01:55:49,920
Speaker 1: central air you know in Oregon as often as they

2027
01:55:50,000 --> 01:55:53,560
Speaker 1: have it in some other parts of this country, and

2028
01:55:53,720 --> 01:55:56,800
Speaker 1: so a lot of people wound up creating building for

2029
01:55:56,960 --> 01:56:02,520
Speaker 1: themselves what are called Corsey Rosenthal box now a Coarsey

2030
01:56:02,680 --> 01:56:07,480
Speaker 1: Rosenthal box is a kind of like air filtration system

2031
01:56:07,720 --> 01:56:11,320
Speaker 1: for rooms that's made up of a box fan and

2032
01:56:11,680 --> 01:56:14,160
Speaker 1: five air filters, like the kind of filters that you're

2033
01:56:14,200 --> 01:56:16,520
Speaker 1: going to use for your HVAC system in your house.

2034
01:56:16,640 --> 01:56:18,880
Speaker 1: Right pretty much most houses are going to have some

2035
01:56:19,040 --> 01:56:23,920
Speaker 1: kind of like air filter already, and they're also widely available,

2036
01:56:24,120 --> 01:56:26,080
Speaker 1: Like if you go to any home depot or lows,

2037
01:56:26,080 --> 01:56:27,800
Speaker 1: they're going to have a shitload of air filters. You

2038
01:56:27,800 --> 01:56:30,200
Speaker 1: can use multiple different types. The bigger the air filter,

2039
01:56:30,720 --> 01:56:35,800
Speaker 1: the more air it'll handle. Coursey Rosenthal boxes were invented

2040
01:56:36,120 --> 01:56:39,760
Speaker 1: kind of right at the start of the pandemic. One

2041
01:56:39,800 --> 01:56:41,880
Speaker 1: of the guys who made it, Richard Corsi, was an

2042
01:56:41,960 --> 01:56:44,720
Speaker 1: environmental engineer who kind of realized as soon as the

2043
01:56:44,760 --> 01:56:48,240
Speaker 1: pandos started that a lot of poor people were going

2044
01:56:48,280 --> 01:56:50,320
Speaker 1: to be absolutely fucked when it came to filtering air

2045
01:56:50,400 --> 01:56:53,560
Speaker 1: in their homes. Because good you can get like a

2046
01:56:53,680 --> 01:56:58,640
Speaker 1: nice Hepa filter, like standalone Hepa filter, but they're usually

2047
01:56:58,760 --> 01:57:02,160
Speaker 1: several hundred dollars. So he wanted to try and provide

2048
01:57:02,200 --> 01:57:04,360
Speaker 1: people with something that could make that was a lot cheaper.

2049
01:57:04,760 --> 01:57:08,280
Speaker 1: He had worked previously with the CEO of a filter

2050
01:57:08,440 --> 01:57:10,240
Speaker 1: company that I think is based in Texas, so he

2051
01:57:10,360 --> 01:57:13,240
Speaker 1: called that guy up and they collaborated on a design

2052
01:57:14,160 --> 01:57:17,000
Speaker 1: that basically used you build like a box out of

2053
01:57:17,080 --> 01:57:19,840
Speaker 1: air filters and you stick a back box fan on

2054
01:57:19,920 --> 01:57:22,760
Speaker 1: top of it. If you google Coursey c O R

2055
01:57:23,000 --> 01:57:26,040
Speaker 1: S I DASH Rosenthal R O S E N T

2056
01:57:26,360 --> 01:57:30,440
Speaker 1: H A L box, you'll find the Wikipedia page which

2057
01:57:30,480 --> 01:57:32,840
Speaker 1: has a guide to making these. It's very simple. If

2058
01:57:32,880 --> 01:57:35,440
Speaker 1: you're not crafty at all or have no real tools,

2059
01:57:35,800 --> 01:57:39,520
Speaker 1: you can still make it work. I built won a

2060
01:57:39,600 --> 01:57:42,160
Speaker 1: couple of years ago, you know, when should happened in Portland,

2061
01:57:42,200 --> 01:57:44,760
Speaker 1: as did several people I knew. And they're not hard

2062
01:57:44,880 --> 01:57:48,280
Speaker 1: to do. And the most common size of box that

2063
01:57:48,360 --> 01:57:50,880
Speaker 1: you can build will allow it'll basically change the air

2064
01:57:50,960 --> 01:57:55,200
Speaker 1: out in a room five full times per hour and

2065
01:57:55,240 --> 01:57:58,440
Speaker 1: a five hundred square foot room, which is reasonably good.

2066
01:57:58,720 --> 01:58:01,520
Speaker 1: It'll make a meaningful difference in your indoor air quality

2067
01:58:01,640 --> 01:58:04,440
Speaker 1: if you're like blanketed in Hell's mog right now.

2068
01:58:04,680 --> 01:58:06,600
Speaker 7: Yeah, that's about That's about the same as like one

2069
01:58:06,680 --> 01:58:08,320
Speaker 7: hundred and fifty dollars. If you were to like go

2070
01:58:08,440 --> 01:58:11,400
Speaker 7: out and buy, yeah, a five hundred square foot filter,

2071
01:58:11,640 --> 01:58:13,200
Speaker 7: it would be about one hundred and fifty bucks.

2072
01:58:13,280 --> 01:58:15,800
Speaker 1: And that is about what this will cost you right now,

2073
01:58:16,200 --> 01:58:18,280
Speaker 1: I think, because shit's got more expensive. At least that's

2074
01:58:18,320 --> 01:58:21,680
Speaker 1: what a recent Outside magazine article gave the cost of

2075
01:58:21,760 --> 01:58:24,800
Speaker 1: constructing this. Oh interesting, that said you might be able

2076
01:58:24,840 --> 01:58:27,040
Speaker 1: to get it for cheaper. There's a good chance. That's

2077
01:58:27,040 --> 01:58:29,960
Speaker 1: if you're buying everything. Most people in most places have

2078
01:58:30,040 --> 01:58:32,320
Speaker 1: a box fan, you know, and most people have a

2079
01:58:32,400 --> 01:58:35,120
Speaker 1: couple of filters, which which should cut down on the cost.

2080
01:58:36,440 --> 01:58:38,200
Speaker 1: You know, it'll depend on kind of where you are

2081
01:58:38,320 --> 01:58:41,720
Speaker 1: and what things are are running. But HEPA filters are

2082
01:58:41,760 --> 01:58:45,160
Speaker 1: also standalone ones likelier to sell out fast as opposed

2083
01:58:45,160 --> 01:58:47,720
Speaker 1: to kind of the raw components to making a Coarsey

2084
01:58:47,840 --> 01:58:51,280
Speaker 1: Rosenthal filter, so you may find it easier to get

2085
01:58:51,400 --> 01:58:55,320
Speaker 1: access to I like the Corsy Rosenthal filter for a

2086
01:58:55,400 --> 01:58:59,680
Speaker 1: couple of other reasons. Obviously, it's accessible and it's comparatively affordable,

2087
01:59:00,040 --> 01:59:02,080
Speaker 1: but it also is something that you can make yourself

2088
01:59:02,240 --> 01:59:05,560
Speaker 1: that will have a meaningful impact on how you weather

2089
01:59:05,960 --> 01:59:10,040
Speaker 1: this event. That's important psychologically in a disaster, feeling as

2090
01:59:10,080 --> 01:59:12,520
Speaker 1: if you have some sort of agency by actually doing

2091
01:59:12,600 --> 01:59:14,960
Speaker 1: the useful thing. And it can also be important from

2092
01:59:15,000 --> 01:59:17,960
Speaker 1: a community point of view. You can theoretically raise money

2093
01:59:18,000 --> 01:59:20,920
Speaker 1: and put together people to make Corsey Rosenthal boxes and

2094
01:59:21,080 --> 01:59:23,280
Speaker 1: hand them out to people who maybe can't afford them,

2095
01:59:23,480 --> 01:59:27,080
Speaker 1: or have mobility issues or less able to get the equipment.

2096
01:59:27,760 --> 01:59:30,120
Speaker 1: That's the kind of thing that builds community connection and

2097
01:59:30,240 --> 01:59:35,080
Speaker 1: also offers an immediate alleviation of suffering and health consequences

2098
01:59:35,400 --> 01:59:39,000
Speaker 1: for people, which is the kind of thing that I

2099
01:59:39,280 --> 01:59:43,080
Speaker 1: like to see people doing in a disaster like this.

2100
01:59:43,760 --> 01:59:46,840
Speaker 1: I also kind of like this filter because it represents

2101
01:59:47,040 --> 01:59:51,040
Speaker 1: a rare example of people you might call elites taking

2102
01:59:51,120 --> 01:59:54,160
Speaker 1: immediate action to ensure cash poor individuals had a life

2103
01:59:54,200 --> 01:59:56,880
Speaker 1: saving tool available to themselves. It's one of those kind

2104
01:59:56,880 --> 01:59:59,040
Speaker 1: of rare examples from the start of the pandemic of

2105
01:59:59,200 --> 02:00:02,040
Speaker 1: like that radical solidarity we saw bits and pieces of.

2106
02:00:03,120 --> 02:00:06,200
Speaker 1: And I think Jim Rosenthal and Richard Corsi are pretty

2107
02:00:06,240 --> 02:00:09,160
Speaker 1: cool in my book for figuring out this thing. So

2108
02:00:10,320 --> 02:00:13,000
Speaker 1: you know, there's a lot that's nice about these filters.

2109
02:00:13,440 --> 02:00:15,680
Speaker 7: So I just looked at the cost of making one.

2110
02:00:15,760 --> 02:00:17,160
Speaker 7: I just like kind of added it together, and it

2111
02:00:17,200 --> 02:00:18,960
Speaker 7: looks like you could probably make one for about sixty

2112
02:00:19,000 --> 02:00:19,400
Speaker 7: five bucks.

2113
02:00:19,520 --> 02:00:21,240
Speaker 1: Oh great, great, great grade. It is probably the outside

2114
02:00:21,240 --> 02:00:23,360
Speaker 1: guy was probably buying all the Gucci shit, right.

2115
02:00:23,560 --> 02:00:25,240
Speaker 7: If you just buy cheap, you need at least a

2116
02:00:25,320 --> 02:00:28,080
Speaker 7: MERV thirteen filter. That's the level of filter where it

2117
02:00:28,160 --> 02:00:31,240
Speaker 7: starts cutting out smoke. And if you get the twenty

2118
02:00:31,280 --> 02:00:33,320
Speaker 7: inch filters, which I think is what usually people are

2119
02:00:33,320 --> 02:00:36,960
Speaker 7: getting a twenty inch box fan, and so it's and

2120
02:00:37,000 --> 02:00:39,200
Speaker 7: then you only need four filters, I believe, because the

2121
02:00:39,240 --> 02:00:42,680
Speaker 7: bottom isn't sucking air in the bottom ends up a

2122
02:00:42,920 --> 02:00:45,320
Speaker 7: flat when I was looking at it earlier today. But

2123
02:00:45,360 --> 02:00:46,840
Speaker 7: you've built one and I haven't.

2124
02:00:46,640 --> 02:00:50,200
Speaker 1: So yeah, honestly it was three years ago. Yeah, everybody,

2125
02:00:50,400 --> 02:00:52,640
Speaker 1: I misspoke saying five. I think you can do it

2126
02:00:53,040 --> 02:00:55,360
Speaker 1: just fine with four. I'm not sure if either we

2127
02:00:55,720 --> 02:00:58,000
Speaker 1: did it weird when we did it last or if

2128
02:00:58,000 --> 02:01:01,760
Speaker 1: I was just rumbering wrong. But that means, yeah, a

2129
02:01:01,840 --> 02:01:04,720
Speaker 1: lot more available. Like I had three filters on hand

2130
02:01:04,960 --> 02:01:07,920
Speaker 1: in my house this morning, just because that's how many,

2131
02:01:08,120 --> 02:01:10,760
Speaker 1: you know, I usually keep as a backup, So a

2132
02:01:10,800 --> 02:01:14,480
Speaker 1: lot of you are probably in a similar situation. And yeah,

2133
02:01:14,560 --> 02:01:18,320
Speaker 1: that's a more accessible thing compared to the equipment. We're

2134
02:01:18,320 --> 02:01:21,960
Speaker 1: about to start talking about stuff like respirators and stuff

2135
02:01:22,040 --> 02:01:24,680
Speaker 1: like standalone HEPA filters, which are likely to sell out

2136
02:01:24,800 --> 02:01:27,040
Speaker 1: pretty quickly as people go to all of the stores

2137
02:01:27,120 --> 02:01:28,040
Speaker 1: to buy up all the things.

2138
02:01:28,120 --> 02:01:30,480
Speaker 7: Although I will say it's almost depressing right now. I

2139
02:01:30,880 --> 02:01:33,040
Speaker 7: was checking availability for some of my East Coast friends.

2140
02:01:33,120 --> 02:01:35,440
Speaker 7: I'm actually an East Coast friend normally, but I went

2141
02:01:35,520 --> 02:01:38,480
Speaker 7: to the land of Smoke, the usual smoke Pacific Northwest

2142
02:01:39,480 --> 02:01:43,000
Speaker 7: and missed it. But most things are still available right now,

2143
02:01:43,200 --> 02:01:45,440
Speaker 7: at least as of recording. I don't know whether it's

2144
02:01:45,520 --> 02:01:51,080
Speaker 7: people just haven't put it together that it's necessary, or

2145
02:01:51,120 --> 02:01:53,720
Speaker 7: people felt like they couldn't afford it. A lot of

2146
02:01:53,720 --> 02:01:55,240
Speaker 7: stuff is still in stock as of this.

2147
02:01:55,760 --> 02:01:57,720
Speaker 1: That's really good to hear, because that's what we're about

2148
02:01:57,760 --> 02:02:00,320
Speaker 1: to get into. So I did want to kind of

2149
02:02:00,360 --> 02:02:03,120
Speaker 1: lead into this, moving from this kind of what I

2150
02:02:03,160 --> 02:02:06,040
Speaker 1: think is inspiring about the Coursey Rosenthal filter, which is

2151
02:02:06,600 --> 02:02:11,080
Speaker 1: that it's something that is accessible, something that like people

2152
02:02:11,160 --> 02:02:13,520
Speaker 1: can work on and provide for each other together, and

2153
02:02:13,640 --> 02:02:16,800
Speaker 1: sort of representative of the kind of radical solidarity you

2154
02:02:16,920 --> 02:02:21,400
Speaker 1: see in disasters. I think that's kind of particularly meaningful

2155
02:02:21,600 --> 02:02:27,280
Speaker 1: to me because of why this air quality event is

2156
02:02:27,640 --> 02:02:30,760
Speaker 1: so frightening to folks. You know, people who are in

2157
02:02:30,840 --> 02:02:33,000
Speaker 1: New York or Philly or Richmond or DC or a

2158
02:02:33,040 --> 02:02:36,360
Speaker 1: lot of other places in the Northeast have not dealt

2159
02:02:36,640 --> 02:02:41,040
Speaker 1: with this kind of air quality before. This is because

2160
02:02:41,120 --> 02:02:44,120
Speaker 1: most people who are young in those areas, because most

2161
02:02:44,240 --> 02:02:47,840
Speaker 1: young Americans have had the privilege of experiencing air pollution

2162
02:02:48,000 --> 02:02:51,480
Speaker 1: primarily as either an annoyance or as an abstract concept.

2163
02:02:52,040 --> 02:02:54,400
Speaker 1: A big part of why is that the Clean Air Act,

2164
02:02:54,520 --> 02:02:58,280
Speaker 1: instituted in nineteen sixty three, did a huge amount to

2165
02:02:58,560 --> 02:03:01,120
Speaker 1: stop the kind of poisoning of the sky that led

2166
02:03:01,160 --> 02:03:03,960
Speaker 1: to fairly regular smog events in the fifties and early

2167
02:03:04,040 --> 02:03:06,520
Speaker 1: to mid nineteen sixties, even nineteen seventies in a lot

2168
02:03:06,600 --> 02:03:08,760
Speaker 1: of parts of this country. You know, it took a while.

2169
02:03:08,880 --> 02:03:11,520
Speaker 1: There was more involved than just the Clean Air Act,

2170
02:03:11,840 --> 02:03:14,440
Speaker 1: but shit like this used to be a lot more common,

2171
02:03:15,080 --> 02:03:18,360
Speaker 1: and Americans suffered from a variety of illnesses, including adult

2172
02:03:18,440 --> 02:03:21,800
Speaker 1: onset emphysema or young adult on set mphysima at a

2173
02:03:21,920 --> 02:03:25,080
Speaker 1: much higher rate because of stuff like this. If you

2174
02:03:25,200 --> 02:03:27,680
Speaker 1: are young, and by young, I mean like my age,

2175
02:03:27,800 --> 02:03:31,560
Speaker 1: Margaret's age, you know, not all that young. Because air

2176
02:03:31,640 --> 02:03:34,880
Speaker 1: quality in the United States has been significantly better than

2177
02:03:34,920 --> 02:03:36,960
Speaker 1: it was for like my parents when they were kids

2178
02:03:37,000 --> 02:03:40,360
Speaker 1: for quite a while. You have benefited from a pretty

2179
02:03:40,440 --> 02:03:47,640
Speaker 1: remarkably successful campaign to render Americans at least less vulnerable

2180
02:03:47,880 --> 02:03:51,480
Speaker 1: to them to this kind of pollution. Now, this came

2181
02:03:51,480 --> 02:03:54,560
Speaker 1: alongside years of others' reforms and things like emission standards,

2182
02:03:54,600 --> 02:03:58,080
Speaker 1: which were successful enough that in like West La right now,

2183
02:03:58,160 --> 02:04:00,200
Speaker 1: a lot of days of the year you can see

2184
02:04:00,240 --> 02:04:03,240
Speaker 1: the mountains. That was not a thing for people who

2185
02:04:03,280 --> 02:04:06,360
Speaker 1: lived in Los Angeles and say the nineteen seventies. I

2186
02:04:06,400 --> 02:04:08,720
Speaker 1: had an annual check up right after I moved there

2187
02:04:08,840 --> 02:04:12,880
Speaker 1: with my doctor in you know, southern California, and I

2188
02:04:12,920 --> 02:04:15,240
Speaker 1: asked him, like what life had been like there during

2189
02:04:15,280 --> 02:04:17,080
Speaker 1: the smog years. And the thing that he mentioned to

2190
02:04:17,160 --> 02:04:19,040
Speaker 1: me that stuck with me is that he had a

2191
02:04:19,240 --> 02:04:22,200
Speaker 1: shitload of like patients in their twenties who had like

2192
02:04:22,360 --> 02:04:26,080
Speaker 1: the early symptoms of emphysema, which is just not a

2193
02:04:26,200 --> 02:04:31,440
Speaker 1: thing that really occurred occurs in southern California anymore. Although,

2194
02:04:31,920 --> 02:04:35,840
Speaker 1: you know, because of climate change, there are similar things

2195
02:04:35,880 --> 02:04:37,880
Speaker 1: that are starting to hit. You know, there's a number

2196
02:04:37,920 --> 02:04:42,160
Speaker 1: of like fungal based infections that people are getting, particularly

2197
02:04:42,200 --> 02:04:45,200
Speaker 1: in the valley that's really nasty, and wildfire smoke could

2198
02:04:45,280 --> 02:04:48,280
Speaker 1: bring back a lot of this stuff. And so, yeah,

2199
02:04:48,720 --> 02:04:51,760
Speaker 1: we're kind of looking at a lot of the gains

2200
02:04:52,040 --> 02:04:56,760
Speaker 1: in public health caused by reducing you know, the amount

2201
02:04:56,800 --> 02:04:59,360
Speaker 1: of smog in the air going away as a result

2202
02:04:59,480 --> 02:05:04,680
Speaker 1: of you know, externalities that can't be controlled locally. Now,

2203
02:05:04,800 --> 02:05:07,480
Speaker 1: the downside of the really lovely state of affairs that

2204
02:05:07,560 --> 02:05:09,400
Speaker 1: was kind of ushered into by the Clean Air Act

2205
02:05:09,560 --> 02:05:12,560
Speaker 1: is that most Americans have spent their lives in kind

2206
02:05:12,600 --> 02:05:15,680
Speaker 1: of a bubble of artificially pure air, while the negative

2207
02:05:15,680 --> 02:05:19,400
Speaker 1: externalities that made are tech heavy lives possible were exported

2208
02:05:19,440 --> 02:05:23,120
Speaker 1: to the global South, and those people experienced with increasing

2209
02:05:23,200 --> 02:05:26,800
Speaker 1: regularity the kind of catastrophic pollution that in an earlier

2210
02:05:26,840 --> 02:05:29,480
Speaker 1: age here caused the Cuyahoga River in Cleveland to light

2211
02:05:29,560 --> 02:05:33,879
Speaker 1: on fire every spring or so. Globally, in twenty eighteen,

2212
02:05:34,080 --> 02:05:37,120
Speaker 1: some eight point seven million deaths were caused by air pollution,

2213
02:05:37,640 --> 02:05:41,520
Speaker 1: specifically pollution created via the burning of fossil fuels. David

2214
02:05:41,560 --> 02:05:44,960
Speaker 1: Wallace Wells, who writes about climate catastrophe better than most people,

2215
02:05:45,360 --> 02:05:47,600
Speaker 1: put the cost this way in a testimony before the

2216
02:05:47,720 --> 02:05:50,240
Speaker 1: US Senate Committee on the Budget in twenty twenty one.

2217
02:05:51,000 --> 02:05:54,600
Speaker 1: Those punishments are harrowingly widespread. The Lancet puts the global

2218
02:05:54,640 --> 02:05:57,320
Speaker 1: annual death toll of air pollution at nine million. This

2219
02:05:57,520 --> 02:06:00,280
Speaker 1: is dying at the scale of the Holocaust every single year.

2220
02:06:00,600 --> 02:06:03,360
Speaker 1: In India, where three hundred and forty nine thousand stillbirths

2221
02:06:03,400 --> 02:06:06,000
Speaker 1: and miscarriages have been attributed annually to the effects of

2222
02:06:06,040 --> 02:06:08,720
Speaker 1: air pollution, the average resident of Delhi has had his

2223
02:06:08,880 --> 02:06:11,520
Speaker 1: or her life expectancy shortened by more than nine years

2224
02:06:11,760 --> 02:06:15,200
Speaker 1: from the repetitive inhalation of smog. Globally, the average figure

2225
02:06:15,320 --> 02:06:16,000
Speaker 1: is two years.

2226
02:06:17,000 --> 02:06:17,760
Speaker 4: So this is bad.

2227
02:06:18,160 --> 02:06:20,200
Speaker 1: So this is real bad, and it's one of those

2228
02:06:20,240 --> 02:06:24,680
Speaker 1: things that we're it's so shocking and traumatic to people

2229
02:06:24,800 --> 02:06:27,720
Speaker 1: right now because we haven't experienced this in most of

2230
02:06:27,800 --> 02:06:30,760
Speaker 1: the US outside of like, yeah, the West, you know

2231
02:06:31,120 --> 02:06:34,000
Speaker 1: recently as the wildfires have gotten worst for quite a while.

2232
02:06:34,680 --> 02:06:38,240
Speaker 1: But the problems that cause this we were, you know,

2233
02:06:39,080 --> 02:06:43,680
Speaker 1: suffered by people outside of the United States consistently for years.

2234
02:06:44,360 --> 02:06:46,720
Speaker 1: Like one of the things that's you know, you've kind

2235
02:06:46,760 --> 02:06:48,760
Speaker 1: of seen on like Twitter and shit is like people

2236
02:06:48,800 --> 02:06:50,520
Speaker 1: in the West Coast and the East Coast fighting about

2237
02:06:50,560 --> 02:06:53,240
Speaker 1: who's had it worse in terms of wildfire smog lately,

2238
02:06:53,760 --> 02:06:56,080
Speaker 1: and like, well, the answer if you want to talk

2239
02:06:56,120 --> 02:06:58,360
Speaker 1: about who's been dealing with this the worst and the

2240
02:06:58,440 --> 02:07:01,200
Speaker 1: longest is like people in fucking Day, people in Shinzhen,

2241
02:07:01,880 --> 02:07:06,320
Speaker 1: you know, the in China. Like this is a problem

2242
02:07:06,400 --> 02:07:09,640
Speaker 1: that is primarily born I mean, this is not in

2243
02:07:09,760 --> 02:07:12,520
Speaker 1: the US too, by the poor, but it's been born

2244
02:07:12,680 --> 02:07:14,800
Speaker 1: by the poor outside of the United States because we

2245
02:07:14,880 --> 02:07:18,240
Speaker 1: successfully externalized a lot of the consequences of our lifestyles,

2246
02:07:19,360 --> 02:07:24,240
Speaker 1: and ideally the hopeful thing is that perhaps experiencing this

2247
02:07:24,520 --> 02:07:27,240
Speaker 1: in New York City, which is, if you're not aware,

2248
02:07:27,560 --> 02:07:30,400
Speaker 1: we're the only writers that people apparently listen to live

2249
02:07:31,600 --> 02:07:35,160
Speaker 1: will cause some kind of enhanced solidarity for the folks

2250
02:07:35,320 --> 02:07:38,280
Speaker 1: in what you might call or what often is described

2251
02:07:38,280 --> 02:07:40,600
Speaker 1: as the Global South, who are have been dealing with

2252
02:07:40,720 --> 02:07:42,960
Speaker 1: this for years and will continue to deal with this

2253
02:07:43,080 --> 02:07:45,680
Speaker 1: in a much more severe form with much fewer resources

2254
02:07:45,800 --> 02:07:49,160
Speaker 1: available to them. If you are currently living in one

2255
02:07:49,160 --> 02:07:52,520
Speaker 1: of the great cities besieged by wildfire smoke, your life

2256
02:07:52,560 --> 02:07:54,960
Speaker 1: span has already been shortened. Now, I'm not trying to

2257
02:07:55,000 --> 02:07:58,440
Speaker 1: be like panic inducing. We're talking about like by the

2258
02:07:58,480 --> 02:08:00,760
Speaker 1: same it would be like if you had smoked half

2259
02:08:00,800 --> 02:08:03,320
Speaker 1: a pack of cigarettes since this all started. It's kind

2260
02:08:03,320 --> 02:08:06,960
Speaker 1: of similar to that. But there is no safe amount

2261
02:08:07,000 --> 02:08:09,360
Speaker 1: of time to inhale particulate in the quantities when you're

2262
02:08:09,360 --> 02:08:12,080
Speaker 1: talking about AQI over four hundred. There's no safe amount

2263
02:08:12,120 --> 02:08:14,000
Speaker 1: of time to just kind of be raw dogging the

2264
02:08:14,080 --> 02:08:16,840
Speaker 1: air out in the street. Any amount is going to

2265
02:08:16,920 --> 02:08:19,040
Speaker 1: damage your lungs, it's going to stiffen your arteries, it's

2266
02:08:19,040 --> 02:08:21,200
Speaker 1: going to increase your chances of a number of cancer's.

2267
02:08:21,560 --> 02:08:24,960
Speaker 1: Heart attack risk increases by a meaningful amount. When you

2268
02:08:25,080 --> 02:08:27,600
Speaker 1: are out dealing with stuff like this, your immune system

2269
02:08:27,760 --> 02:08:29,160
Speaker 1: is significantly weaker, and.

2270
02:08:29,280 --> 02:08:30,920
Speaker 7: You don't get to look cool like smoking.

2271
02:08:31,480 --> 02:08:33,480
Speaker 1: You don't get to look cool like smoking. Right, Like,

2272
02:08:33,600 --> 02:08:36,879
Speaker 1: it's all of the downsides of being a daily smoker

2273
02:08:37,000 --> 02:08:40,720
Speaker 1: with none of the significant benefits of looking rad as

2274
02:08:40,800 --> 02:08:46,880
Speaker 1: hell of looking like fucking Martin Sheen and apocalypse. Now, ah, man,

2275
02:08:47,320 --> 02:08:49,600
Speaker 1: I love a good smoker, but nobody looks good in

2276
02:08:49,720 --> 02:08:52,000
Speaker 1: this shit unless you're like, have one of those sick

2277
02:08:52,080 --> 02:08:55,640
Speaker 1: ass you know, apocalypse dusters and like a face mask,

2278
02:08:55,720 --> 02:08:58,320
Speaker 1: which we're about to talk about, then you can look cool,

2279
02:08:58,480 --> 02:09:04,080
Speaker 1: although you're clothing will probably always smell of wildfire. There's

2280
02:09:04,120 --> 02:09:06,640
Speaker 1: a lot also, it's kind of worth noting that, like,

2281
02:09:07,120 --> 02:09:09,920
Speaker 1: when we're talking about the dangers here, it's not it

2282
02:09:10,040 --> 02:09:13,080
Speaker 1: may smell like a little like campfire smoke, but you're

2283
02:09:13,080 --> 02:09:16,840
Speaker 1: also inhaling an incinerated asbestos and particle board and you know,

2284
02:09:17,160 --> 02:09:20,960
Speaker 1: presumably hordes of ammunition that had been buried by Canadian preppers.

2285
02:09:21,000 --> 02:09:23,440
Speaker 1: So like, there's a lot of reasons why you don't

2286
02:09:23,440 --> 02:09:26,040
Speaker 1: want to breathe this shit in. So when you go outside,

2287
02:09:26,080 --> 02:09:28,240
Speaker 1: you are going to want to wear a mask in

2288
02:09:28,440 --> 02:09:32,120
Speaker 1: ninety fives work reasonably well for adults if you have

2289
02:09:32,240 --> 02:09:34,320
Speaker 1: any on hand, or if you're fortunate enough to live

2290
02:09:34,360 --> 02:09:37,000
Speaker 1: in a city with the kind of emergency preparedness budget

2291
02:09:37,080 --> 02:09:39,240
Speaker 1: that allows them to provide stuff like that New York

2292
02:09:39,320 --> 02:09:42,440
Speaker 1: City is providing in ninety fives in some quantity right now.

2293
02:09:43,440 --> 02:09:45,680
Speaker 1: If you're out on your own, an N ninety five

2294
02:09:45,760 --> 02:09:49,160
Speaker 1: maybe an easy thing to acquire quickly for relatively cheap.

2295
02:09:50,120 --> 02:09:52,760
Speaker 1: That said, they're not perfect for one thing. They don't

2296
02:09:52,760 --> 02:09:54,680
Speaker 1: tend to work very well on kids. For this just

2297
02:09:54,760 --> 02:09:57,680
Speaker 1: because like the fit is off and wrong. You may

2298
02:09:57,840 --> 02:10:00,640
Speaker 1: find that something like a KF ninety four allows you

2299
02:10:00,720 --> 02:10:03,160
Speaker 1: to get a better fit on a child, And those

2300
02:10:03,240 --> 02:10:06,120
Speaker 1: do work reasonably well, certainly better than like nothing at

2301
02:10:06,120 --> 02:10:10,600
Speaker 1: all in this kind of a situation. My personal recommendation,

2302
02:10:10,840 --> 02:10:13,160
Speaker 1: if they are in stock and if you can afford them,

2303
02:10:13,320 --> 02:10:16,400
Speaker 1: is either a half or a full face respirator. We'll

2304
02:10:16,400 --> 02:10:18,680
Speaker 1: talk about the differences between those in a second, But

2305
02:10:19,080 --> 02:10:20,880
Speaker 1: these are the kind of masks that, like, if you're

2306
02:10:20,880 --> 02:10:23,200
Speaker 1: a contractor and you're like putting together a building, You're

2307
02:10:23,200 --> 02:10:26,360
Speaker 1: dealing with a shitload of insulation. You're like cutting certain

2308
02:10:26,440 --> 02:10:28,480
Speaker 1: kinds of metal or you know you're doing a whole

2309
02:10:28,520 --> 02:10:31,040
Speaker 1: bunch of different things that can kick up nasty particulate.

2310
02:10:31,480 --> 02:10:34,000
Speaker 1: You probably have a number of these, right like people

2311
02:10:34,080 --> 02:10:36,560
Speaker 1: I know in graffiti and graffiti. Yeah, if you're doing

2312
02:10:36,600 --> 02:10:40,640
Speaker 1: a lot of graffiti, you know, hang out near a building,

2313
02:10:40,880 --> 02:10:42,840
Speaker 1: you know that kids that kids spray paint a lot,

2314
02:10:43,000 --> 02:10:44,880
Speaker 1: and then you know, stick them up with a handgun

2315
02:10:44,960 --> 02:10:47,960
Speaker 1: for their their respirators. That's a responsible way to deal

2316
02:10:48,040 --> 02:10:54,520
Speaker 1: with Yeah, that's teach everyone smoke through the respirator. That

2317
02:10:54,680 --> 02:11:02,000
Speaker 1: makes it extra cool and healthy. So yeah, what we're

2318
02:11:02,040 --> 02:11:04,200
Speaker 1: talking about here, Like, if you're looking for a thing

2319
02:11:04,240 --> 02:11:07,960
Speaker 1: to type into Google or whatever, threem half mask respirator.

2320
02:11:08,600 --> 02:11:11,160
Speaker 1: I found a three half mask respirator kit with a

2321
02:11:11,240 --> 02:11:14,680
Speaker 1: couple of what are called Bayonet filters for forty six

2322
02:11:14,800 --> 02:11:17,360
Speaker 1: forty one on Granger dot com right now. You can

2323
02:11:17,400 --> 02:11:19,880
Speaker 1: get them for similar prices on Amazon dot com. If

2324
02:11:19,920 --> 02:11:22,120
Speaker 1: you walk into a Lows or a home depot and

2325
02:11:22,240 --> 02:11:24,080
Speaker 1: they have not there hasn't been a run on them,

2326
02:11:24,320 --> 02:11:27,560
Speaker 1: you can probably find these. You will want to make

2327
02:11:27,600 --> 02:11:30,360
Speaker 1: sure you get filters with them. Sometimes you get just

2328
02:11:30,480 --> 02:11:33,000
Speaker 1: the respirator and you have to buy the filters separately. Yeah,

2329
02:11:33,080 --> 02:11:34,920
Speaker 1: usually if you get one, it'll it'll come with them.

2330
02:11:34,960 --> 02:11:37,280
Speaker 1: But make sure the filters are going to be these.

2331
02:11:37,680 --> 02:11:40,080
Speaker 1: Most of them look kind of like triangles with like

2332
02:11:40,280 --> 02:11:44,520
Speaker 1: rounded edges that are sort of this like pinkish purple color.

2333
02:11:44,600 --> 02:11:47,080
Speaker 1: For the most part, there's some that are gray and

2334
02:11:47,280 --> 02:11:50,920
Speaker 1: like circular. It doesn't really matter you know which kind

2335
02:11:50,960 --> 02:11:53,280
Speaker 1: of filters yours get. I would say, just get whatever

2336
02:11:53,400 --> 02:11:56,440
Speaker 1: they have the most of Well, yeah, the in.

2337
02:11:56,560 --> 02:11:59,120
Speaker 7: General, the filters filter out a ton of different stuff,

2338
02:11:59,440 --> 02:12:02,520
Speaker 7: And the thing looking for is the particulate filteration, which

2339
02:12:02,560 --> 02:12:04,800
Speaker 7: is actually the easiest and that's why almost any filter

2340
02:12:04,880 --> 02:12:08,880
Speaker 7: will do this. The rawest doesn't do anything else. Filter

2341
02:12:09,000 --> 02:12:10,920
Speaker 7: that you would be looking for is a P one hundred,

2342
02:12:11,520 --> 02:12:14,400
Speaker 7: and sometimes those are they're more likely. I believe three

2343
02:12:14,600 --> 02:12:16,880
Speaker 7: M marks them as the pink. So if it's pink,

2344
02:12:16,960 --> 02:12:18,280
Speaker 7: it's particulate.

2345
02:12:18,680 --> 02:12:19,360
Speaker 12: With three M.

2346
02:12:19,440 --> 02:12:22,480
Speaker 7: There's other brands. There's Honeywell, and then there's yeah, I

2347
02:12:22,520 --> 02:12:24,600
Speaker 7: can't remember off the top of my head, but anyway,

2348
02:12:24,640 --> 02:12:27,400
Speaker 7: P one hundred is like you just look for particular filter,

2349
02:12:27,520 --> 02:12:29,840
Speaker 7: but honestly, yeah, pretty much anything is going to do it.

2350
02:12:30,080 --> 02:12:32,800
Speaker 1: Basically, any kind of respirator you're going to get it.

2351
02:12:32,840 --> 02:12:35,120
Speaker 1: Like a home depot with filters is going to be

2352
02:12:35,240 --> 02:12:38,760
Speaker 1: sufficient for this. There are kind of like the one

2353
02:12:38,800 --> 02:12:42,440
Speaker 1: and that. There's two main categories of respirators. The one

2354
02:12:42,480 --> 02:12:45,840
Speaker 1: we're interested in are called air purifying respirators. That means

2355
02:12:45,920 --> 02:12:48,440
Speaker 1: you breathe in the air from outside and it filters

2356
02:12:48,480 --> 02:12:51,480
Speaker 1: it right. The other kind of atmosphere supplying respirators, which

2357
02:12:51,840 --> 02:12:54,600
Speaker 1: normal people do not need in this situation. That's like,

2358
02:12:55,440 --> 02:12:58,360
Speaker 1: you know, it has like a tank of stuff walking around.

2359
02:12:58,760 --> 02:13:01,160
Speaker 1: Don't get that it's going to be a lot more

2360
02:13:01,560 --> 02:13:04,800
Speaker 1: than is necessary for at least the next like six

2361
02:13:04,880 --> 02:13:09,800
Speaker 1: to eight months. Respirators are then further divided into half

2362
02:13:09,920 --> 02:13:13,040
Speaker 1: face masks, which things like Batman from that the Worst

2363
02:13:13,080 --> 02:13:15,280
Speaker 1: of the Nolan Batman or not Batman. Think of Bane

2364
02:13:15,360 --> 02:13:17,200
Speaker 1: from the Worst of the Nolan Batman movies. It's a

2365
02:13:17,240 --> 02:13:18,880
Speaker 1: little bit like that right where it's kind of just

2366
02:13:19,000 --> 02:13:23,080
Speaker 1: over your mouth and jaw. And then there's full face masks,

2367
02:13:23,400 --> 02:13:27,800
Speaker 1: and there are also reusable elastomeric respirators. I tend to

2368
02:13:27,840 --> 02:13:30,840
Speaker 1: prefer half a full face masks for one thing. There's

2369
02:13:30,880 --> 02:13:33,280
Speaker 1: no reason to like you're not working in some sort

2370
02:13:33,320 --> 02:13:35,760
Speaker 1: of like capacity where you want to be tossing it

2371
02:13:35,920 --> 02:13:37,880
Speaker 1: every time, you know, you might as well just get one.

2372
02:13:37,960 --> 02:13:41,480
Speaker 1: You can plug new filters into. A half face mask

2373
02:13:41,640 --> 02:13:43,600
Speaker 1: is going to be a lot more convenient. It's a

2374
02:13:43,680 --> 02:13:46,480
Speaker 1: lot less sort of weight and stuff, but it doesn't

2375
02:13:46,520 --> 02:13:49,240
Speaker 1: protect your eyes or anything, which if you're dealing with

2376
02:13:49,360 --> 02:13:52,080
Speaker 1: really heavy particulate, you may find your eyes getting irritated

2377
02:13:52,160 --> 02:13:54,840
Speaker 1: out there. The benefit of a full face mask is

2378
02:13:54,880 --> 02:13:57,800
Speaker 1: that it does protect your eyes and if you happen

2379
02:13:57,840 --> 02:13:59,920
Speaker 1: to ever be in a situation where there's hella, mace

2380
02:14:00,160 --> 02:14:04,040
Speaker 1: or tear gas being used, it provides excellent protection from

2381
02:14:04,080 --> 02:14:07,120
Speaker 1: that kind of thing. The downside is that these are

2382
02:14:07,240 --> 02:14:11,000
Speaker 1: three to four times as expensive as the half faced respirator,

2383
02:14:11,080 --> 02:14:13,880
Speaker 1: so they're not my general recommendation to people. But again,

2384
02:14:13,960 --> 02:14:15,880
Speaker 1: either of them is going to be perfectly adequate for

2385
02:14:16,000 --> 02:14:16,920
Speaker 1: wildfire smoke.

2386
02:14:17,000 --> 02:14:19,280
Speaker 7: And then the full face ones of the additional problem

2387
02:14:19,360 --> 02:14:22,520
Speaker 7: of most of them are not designed for wearing glasses, yes,

2388
02:14:22,840 --> 02:14:25,360
Speaker 7: and you need a full seal on the side of it,

2389
02:14:25,440 --> 02:14:27,840
Speaker 7: so don't just throw it over your glasses. But they

2390
02:14:27,920 --> 02:14:31,440
Speaker 7: make adapters or you can wear contacts if you're not

2391
02:14:31,560 --> 02:14:33,640
Speaker 7: actually out expecting.

2392
02:14:33,640 --> 02:14:36,360
Speaker 1: Chemical weapons, and I would do that sometimes when we

2393
02:14:36,440 --> 02:14:40,080
Speaker 1: were dealing specific particularly with like mace, heavy fights as contacts,

2394
02:14:40,120 --> 02:14:43,560
Speaker 1: and a full face. It always worked for me. People

2395
02:14:43,560 --> 02:14:45,640
Speaker 1: will say that if you have a beard, it can

2396
02:14:45,720 --> 02:14:48,000
Speaker 1: fuck with the seal. I think I'm sure that's true

2397
02:14:48,040 --> 02:14:50,880
Speaker 1: with like really heavy beards. I keep mine reasonably trim,

2398
02:14:51,040 --> 02:14:53,000
Speaker 1: and I never noticed a problem, you know, even in

2399
02:14:53,120 --> 02:14:55,360
Speaker 1: very thick tear gas with either my full face or

2400
02:14:55,400 --> 02:14:56,320
Speaker 1: with my gas mask.

2401
02:14:57,280 --> 02:14:58,760
Speaker 7: So you know, this is why beards fell out of

2402
02:14:59,040 --> 02:15:00,560
Speaker 7: favor in the United st Dates.

2403
02:15:00,840 --> 02:15:03,160
Speaker 1: Oh, because of a World War One and gas masks.

2404
02:15:03,720 --> 02:15:06,920
Speaker 7: Military people had to start shaving because otherwise you'll die.

2405
02:15:07,120 --> 02:15:09,480
Speaker 7: Because that's the difference, right, You're like, oh, a little

2406
02:15:09,480 --> 02:15:11,520
Speaker 7: bit of smoke is getting in, that sucks. A little

2407
02:15:11,560 --> 02:15:12,720
Speaker 7: bit of murder gas gets in.

2408
02:15:13,000 --> 02:15:16,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's you have a more severe problem. Yeah, So

2409
02:15:16,960 --> 02:15:18,880
Speaker 1: a lot of folks may be and I've seen questions

2410
02:15:18,880 --> 02:15:21,720
Speaker 1: about like getting a gas mask, right, And obviously, if

2411
02:15:21,760 --> 02:15:24,280
Speaker 1: that's what's available to you, if you already happen to

2412
02:15:24,320 --> 02:15:26,400
Speaker 1: have one because you're a weirdo prepper, or if that's

2413
02:15:26,480 --> 02:15:29,600
Speaker 1: just what you can find, a gas mask will indeed

2414
02:15:29,760 --> 02:15:33,520
Speaker 1: protect you from particulate. You may if you are someone

2415
02:15:33,560 --> 02:15:35,880
Speaker 1: who has the benefit of money decide I'm going to

2416
02:15:35,960 --> 02:15:38,240
Speaker 1: just go ahead and get a good gas mask if so,

2417
02:15:38,840 --> 02:15:40,640
Speaker 1: you know, there's a number of places you can look

2418
02:15:40,680 --> 02:15:42,200
Speaker 1: to for that. The one I have is called a

2419
02:15:42,280 --> 02:15:46,160
Speaker 1: mira Ir. They're three four hundred dollars something like that.

2420
02:15:46,840 --> 02:15:49,480
Speaker 1: I can confirm that they work great when you're drenched

2421
02:15:49,520 --> 02:15:52,200
Speaker 1: in tear gas so heavy that you can't see through it.

2422
02:15:52,600 --> 02:15:55,680
Speaker 1: People bitch at them online in like weirdo prepper communities

2423
02:15:55,720 --> 02:15:59,160
Speaker 1: sometimes because they have some like silly attachments and stuff

2424
02:15:59,200 --> 02:16:01,360
Speaker 1: that are kind of too expensive. But like I have

2425
02:16:01,520 --> 02:16:06,600
Speaker 1: used every kind of face mask filtering product in heavy

2426
02:16:06,680 --> 02:16:09,960
Speaker 1: gas and mace mirrors are comfortable, they do work well.

2427
02:16:10,080 --> 02:16:13,320
Speaker 1: That said, much more expensive and much heavier than you

2428
02:16:13,480 --> 02:16:16,440
Speaker 1: need for something like filtering particulate. This would not be

2429
02:16:16,600 --> 02:16:20,160
Speaker 1: my first go to for anybody. Any kind of gas

2430
02:16:20,280 --> 02:16:23,040
Speaker 1: mask you get is going to be very bulky. Even

2431
02:16:23,080 --> 02:16:27,440
Speaker 1: the ones that are made specifically for stuff like special

2432
02:16:27,520 --> 02:16:30,040
Speaker 1: forces use where they're like really streamlines so that you

2433
02:16:30,120 --> 02:16:32,640
Speaker 1: can like shoulder a rifle with them, those are still

2434
02:16:32,720 --> 02:16:36,000
Speaker 1: much bulkier than you know a normal half faced respirator

2435
02:16:36,120 --> 02:16:39,280
Speaker 1: is going to be. They also, you know, one of

2436
02:16:39,320 --> 02:16:41,560
Speaker 1: the benefits. One thing I will say I did a

2437
02:16:41,640 --> 02:16:43,640
Speaker 1: few times when Portland was bad, as I would put

2438
02:16:43,680 --> 02:16:46,760
Speaker 1: on too filters in my gas mask, which allows you

2439
02:16:46,840 --> 02:16:48,840
Speaker 1: to kind of breathe it close to the normal rate

2440
02:16:48,920 --> 02:16:52,480
Speaker 1: that you can, and I would go jogging because like otherwise,

2441
02:16:52,520 --> 02:16:54,680
Speaker 1: you really can't safely. I'm not saying you should do this,

2442
02:16:54,879 --> 02:16:59,200
Speaker 1: Please don't like avoid outdoor exercise as a general rule. Anyway,

2443
02:16:59,360 --> 02:17:02,440
Speaker 1: Military surplus gas masks, if that's what you have, again,

2444
02:17:02,560 --> 02:17:06,120
Speaker 1: and you have filters for them that can help. If

2445
02:17:06,200 --> 02:17:08,520
Speaker 1: you do attempt to do this, you will immediately gain

2446
02:17:08,560 --> 02:17:12,160
Speaker 1: an understanding of why chemical warfare suck so much, because most,

2447
02:17:12,400 --> 02:17:17,720
Speaker 1: especially MILLSERP gas masks suck ass to wear super uncomfortable,

2448
02:17:17,840 --> 02:17:23,480
Speaker 1: super shitty visibility. Not ever my primary recommendation, but again,

2449
02:17:23,520 --> 02:17:25,480
Speaker 1: if that's what you've got and all you can get,

2450
02:17:25,959 --> 02:17:28,920
Speaker 1: it will indeed filter out particulate.

2451
02:17:28,920 --> 02:17:33,360
Speaker 7: And an expired filter, a military style filter. It's usually

2452
02:17:33,400 --> 02:17:37,840
Speaker 7: the NATO standard. Yeah yeah, yeah, they an expired one.

2453
02:17:37,959 --> 02:17:40,400
Speaker 7: It's like I'm not recommending people use expired ones. Yeah,

2454
02:17:40,440 --> 02:17:44,280
Speaker 7: but they're if you're not defending yourself against like murder gas, yeah,

2455
02:17:44,320 --> 02:17:45,480
Speaker 7: an expired one should do you.

2456
02:17:45,760 --> 02:17:45,960
Speaker 1: Yeah.

2457
02:17:46,000 --> 02:17:46,240
Speaker 12: We are.

2458
02:17:46,320 --> 02:17:49,160
Speaker 1: Again, when we come to stuff like this, as long

2459
02:17:49,160 --> 02:17:51,120
Speaker 1: as you have some sort of filter and a military

2460
02:17:51,200 --> 02:17:54,720
Speaker 1: gas mask, it's probably going to be certainly better than nothing. Yeah,

2461
02:17:54,760 --> 02:17:56,680
Speaker 1: because we are just kind of dealing with smoke in

2462
02:17:56,760 --> 02:17:59,880
Speaker 1: particulate here. We're not dealing with like mustard gas or

2463
02:18:00,440 --> 02:18:05,560
Speaker 1: sarahen or whatever. Yet I'm bringing up gas masks just

2464
02:18:05,600 --> 02:18:07,520
Speaker 1: because it's what a lot of people might already have

2465
02:18:07,680 --> 02:18:11,480
Speaker 1: on hand or something, as opposed to recommending that as

2466
02:18:11,560 --> 02:18:13,680
Speaker 1: what you get you you should just get a respirator.

2467
02:18:13,840 --> 02:18:16,480
Speaker 1: That's going to be a lot more effective for basically

2468
02:18:16,520 --> 02:18:19,680
Speaker 1: one hundred percent of people. Now, you will probably notice,

2469
02:18:19,760 --> 02:18:21,520
Speaker 1: if you've been paying attention to what we've been talking

2470
02:18:21,560 --> 02:18:25,439
Speaker 1: about today, that all of the effective measures for mitigating

2471
02:18:25,520 --> 02:18:28,640
Speaker 1: the danger of smoke cost money, nearly all of them

2472
02:18:28,680 --> 02:18:31,360
Speaker 1: at least, and also rely on having stuff like access

2473
02:18:31,400 --> 02:18:33,920
Speaker 1: to transit that can get you to a store, on

2474
02:18:34,200 --> 02:18:37,080
Speaker 1: you know, having an address that packages can be delivered to.

2475
02:18:37,800 --> 02:18:39,920
Speaker 1: Because once again, as we talked about with you know,

2476
02:18:40,040 --> 02:18:42,240
Speaker 1: places like India that have been dealing with smog like

2477
02:18:42,320 --> 02:18:46,199
Speaker 1: this for many, many years, the costs of climate collapse

2478
02:18:46,240 --> 02:18:48,560
Speaker 1: are always heaviest on those who can least bear them,

2479
02:18:49,200 --> 02:18:52,280
Speaker 1: assuming you are housed. There are some other decent tips

2480
02:18:52,360 --> 02:18:54,520
Speaker 1: that can allow you to protect your house. One of

2481
02:18:54,560 --> 02:18:57,600
Speaker 1: them is that you probably want to create a clean

2482
02:18:57,680 --> 02:19:01,720
Speaker 1: room for your animals. Your cats, your dogs number one,

2483
02:19:01,920 --> 02:19:05,080
Speaker 1: are less capable of understanding what's happened happening, and they

2484
02:19:05,800 --> 02:19:08,640
Speaker 1: will notice something is wrong. You know, they will not

2485
02:19:09,080 --> 02:19:11,720
Speaker 1: go outside and feel like it's a normal day just

2486
02:19:11,800 --> 02:19:16,359
Speaker 1: because they're stupid dog or whatever. Like, they will recognize

2487
02:19:16,400 --> 02:19:19,080
Speaker 1: that something is gravely wrong. You want to keep them

2488
02:19:19,120 --> 02:19:21,760
Speaker 1: inside as much as possible because it's even they're smaller

2489
02:19:21,800 --> 02:19:23,680
Speaker 1: than you, right, it's even worse for them. The same

2490
02:19:23,720 --> 02:19:25,360
Speaker 1: thing with think like you want to keep your kids

2491
02:19:25,480 --> 02:19:28,000
Speaker 1: inside because the kind of shit that like maybe a

2492
02:19:28,040 --> 02:19:30,560
Speaker 1: two hundred pound adult can sort of shrug off in

2493
02:19:30,680 --> 02:19:33,200
Speaker 1: terms of particulate will hit a sixty five pound child

2494
02:19:33,320 --> 02:19:36,360
Speaker 1: or a forty five pound dog a lot worse. So

2495
02:19:36,600 --> 02:19:38,440
Speaker 1: a good thing to do is to create a clean room,

2496
02:19:38,879 --> 02:19:41,800
Speaker 1: potentially with the kind of filters, the Corsey Rosenthal filters

2497
02:19:41,840 --> 02:19:45,600
Speaker 1: that we talked about, if you have the ability doing

2498
02:19:45,720 --> 02:19:48,600
Speaker 1: something like you would do kind of for a mudroom,

2499
02:19:48,600 --> 02:19:50,840
Speaker 1: a little kind of airlock situation when you take your

2500
02:19:50,879 --> 02:19:54,000
Speaker 1: pets in and out from doing their business, so you

2501
02:19:54,080 --> 02:19:56,560
Speaker 1: can minimize the amount of shit that gets in. There's

2502
02:19:56,600 --> 02:19:58,400
Speaker 1: a few ways to do this, you know, when there's

2503
02:19:58,480 --> 02:20:02,880
Speaker 1: not currently hell s everywhere. Making sure that the seals

2504
02:20:02,959 --> 02:20:05,720
Speaker 1: and stuff on your windows and doors are of quality

2505
02:20:05,879 --> 02:20:10,480
Speaker 1: and up to date and recently replaced is key. Obviously

2506
02:20:10,560 --> 02:20:13,320
Speaker 1: if you're under smog right now, that's less of a

2507
02:20:13,400 --> 02:20:15,320
Speaker 1: realistic thing that you can do. But one thing you

2508
02:20:15,400 --> 02:20:18,320
Speaker 1: can do people, did you know in Portland during this

2509
02:20:18,480 --> 02:20:22,440
Speaker 1: if you get like towels and soak them and put

2510
02:20:22,480 --> 02:20:24,400
Speaker 1: them around the edges. If you know you've got oh

2511
02:20:24,440 --> 02:20:26,960
Speaker 1: I know this windows, Yeah, I know stuff's getting in.

2512
02:20:27,320 --> 02:20:29,480
Speaker 1: If you kind of can tape that up around and

2513
02:20:29,640 --> 02:20:33,480
Speaker 1: keep it wet around the window, that will take some

2514
02:20:33,680 --> 02:20:36,760
Speaker 1: of the basically particulate. It'll get kind of soaked into

2515
02:20:36,879 --> 02:20:39,840
Speaker 1: the towel and it should minimize kind of what you're

2516
02:20:40,160 --> 02:20:43,440
Speaker 1: dealing with in the house. I haven't seen, actually, this

2517
02:20:43,560 --> 02:20:45,840
Speaker 1: is one of the things I haven't seen like studies

2518
02:20:45,959 --> 02:20:48,440
Speaker 1: on how well this works. But it's what most of

2519
02:20:48,520 --> 02:20:50,640
Speaker 1: the people I knew who had kind of older houses

2520
02:20:50,760 --> 02:20:53,920
Speaker 1: did and do during wildfires, and it seems to have

2521
02:20:54,000 --> 02:20:57,760
Speaker 1: an impact. So I would recommend kind of trying that.

2522
02:20:58,000 --> 02:20:59,560
Speaker 7: And if you can get to the store you get

2523
02:20:59,600 --> 02:21:02,080
Speaker 7: like phone strips and stuff like that. If you don't

2524
02:21:02,120 --> 02:21:04,120
Speaker 7: have much money, you can do the whole everything's a

2525
02:21:04,160 --> 02:21:06,720
Speaker 7: free store for the brave. Yeah, but it's not very

2526
02:21:06,720 --> 02:21:08,520
Speaker 7: expensive anyway. They're like foam tape.

2527
02:21:09,000 --> 02:21:11,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that would be again, much better than trying

2528
02:21:11,600 --> 02:21:14,440
Speaker 1: to do the wet towel thing that said. One thing

2529
02:21:14,480 --> 02:21:17,200
Speaker 1: you should be doing every day is wiping off large

2530
02:21:17,280 --> 02:21:20,000
Speaker 1: surfaces in your house with a damp cloth to clean

2531
02:21:20,040 --> 02:21:23,640
Speaker 1: away the particulate that's settled during the day. That's going

2532
02:21:23,720 --> 02:21:26,000
Speaker 1: to reduce the strain on whatever kind of filters you've

2533
02:21:26,000 --> 02:21:29,880
Speaker 1: got going indoors. You're going to want to very quickly

2534
02:21:31,400 --> 02:21:35,920
Speaker 1: change your air filter, unless you like, if you change

2535
02:21:35,959 --> 02:21:38,120
Speaker 1: your filter a week or two before this hit, you

2536
02:21:38,200 --> 02:21:40,160
Speaker 1: know it'll be fine for a little while. But if,

2537
02:21:40,320 --> 02:21:42,160
Speaker 1: like most people, you kind of let that go a

2538
02:21:42,240 --> 02:21:44,680
Speaker 1: little long, probably one of the first things you should

2539
02:21:44,680 --> 02:21:47,120
Speaker 1: do is slot in a fresh air filter if you've

2540
02:21:47,200 --> 02:21:50,320
Speaker 1: got one. If you are shopping for an air filter

2541
02:21:50,440 --> 02:21:52,600
Speaker 1: and you want something that is going to work better

2542
02:21:52,720 --> 02:21:56,120
Speaker 1: in your HVAC system on particulate, you want something with

2543
02:21:56,240 --> 02:22:00,520
Speaker 1: a high minimum efficiency reporting value or MERV, which Margaret

2544
02:22:01,480 --> 02:22:03,960
Speaker 1: mentioned a little earlier. Value. Those are going to catch

2545
02:22:04,000 --> 02:22:07,760
Speaker 1: more particles than normal filters. You're going to want to

2546
02:22:07,879 --> 02:22:11,959
Speaker 1: switch your HVAC into fan only mode immediately. This will

2547
02:22:12,000 --> 02:22:14,840
Speaker 1: insist ensure that it runs your indoor air through the

2548
02:22:14,920 --> 02:22:19,440
Speaker 1: filter rather than pulling air in from the outside. Yeah,

2549
02:22:19,560 --> 02:22:21,320
Speaker 1: that is a key thing to do. If you've got

2550
02:22:21,400 --> 02:22:23,959
Speaker 1: kind of a central system, you're also going to want

2551
02:22:23,959 --> 02:22:26,840
Speaker 1: to turn off anything that pulls in air from the outside, like,

2552
02:22:27,320 --> 02:22:30,080
Speaker 1: for example, the portable air conditioner units with like hoses

2553
02:22:30,120 --> 02:22:31,960
Speaker 1: that go at your window, which is the things that

2554
02:22:32,160 --> 02:22:34,760
Speaker 1: like everyone in the East Coast tends to have as

2555
02:22:34,800 --> 02:22:37,440
Speaker 1: opposed to a central system. So if you've got one

2556
02:22:37,480 --> 02:22:41,440
Speaker 1: of those, some window acs will have what's called an

2557
02:22:41,480 --> 02:22:45,680
Speaker 1: outdoor air damper that you can close. If they don't

2558
02:22:45,760 --> 02:22:48,400
Speaker 1: have that, you're gonna want to keep it off and sealed,

2559
02:22:48,680 --> 02:22:51,320
Speaker 1: and you're going to want to in any case use

2560
02:22:51,400 --> 02:22:53,959
Speaker 1: tape or whatever you have to ensure that the seal

2561
02:22:54,040 --> 02:22:56,600
Speaker 1: around the unit is more robust. I know, people generally,

2562
02:22:57,080 --> 02:23:00,720
Speaker 1: you know, can be a little bit lax days about

2563
02:23:00,760 --> 02:23:03,000
Speaker 1: the actual like window seal with a unit like that

2564
02:23:03,320 --> 02:23:05,040
Speaker 1: is generally not perfect. You're going to want to be

2565
02:23:05,120 --> 02:23:08,920
Speaker 1: extra careful because even a small gap, you know, that

2566
02:23:09,120 --> 02:23:11,040
Speaker 1: that allows shit in is going to allow quite a

2567
02:23:11,080 --> 02:23:15,600
Speaker 1: lot of particulate and like a surprising amount. Again, a

2568
02:23:15,680 --> 02:23:17,600
Speaker 1: lot of some of these methods are just like stuff

2569
02:23:17,640 --> 02:23:19,600
Speaker 1: that you should be doing to prep your house, but

2570
02:23:19,640 --> 02:23:24,000
Speaker 1: a lot of them do require resources, which is, you know,

2571
02:23:24,480 --> 02:23:28,760
Speaker 1: frustrating for a lot of reasons. I'm sure hope I'm

2572
02:23:28,840 --> 02:23:31,640
Speaker 1: hoping Margaret that like what you found online is accurate

2573
02:23:31,720 --> 02:23:34,920
Speaker 1: people's experience and that stores have not sold out of

2574
02:23:35,400 --> 02:23:39,360
Speaker 1: the things that are useful in this situation. That is

2575
02:23:39,440 --> 02:23:41,879
Speaker 1: one of those things kind of when we talk more

2576
02:23:41,920 --> 02:23:46,840
Speaker 1: broadly about preparation for stuff like this, that people should

2577
02:23:46,840 --> 02:23:50,040
Speaker 1: be thinking about, like, don't just think about what stuff

2578
02:23:50,040 --> 02:23:52,080
Speaker 1: has gone wrong in the past. That's a great way

2579
02:23:52,120 --> 02:23:55,119
Speaker 1: to have plenty of toilet paper when there's a shortage

2580
02:23:55,160 --> 02:23:59,280
Speaker 1: of water or whatever. Right likewise, it's one of those

2581
02:23:59,320 --> 02:24:01,400
Speaker 1: things where, you know, if you were in when I

2582
02:24:02,040 --> 02:24:04,240
Speaker 1: made a couple of posts about what was happening in

2583
02:24:04,320 --> 02:24:08,360
Speaker 1: New York earlier, and somebody responded, and I was making

2584
02:24:08,400 --> 02:24:09,800
Speaker 1: the joke that like, hey, if you get a full

2585
02:24:09,800 --> 02:24:12,200
Speaker 1: face respirator, it'll be useful, you know, if you've got

2586
02:24:12,240 --> 02:24:14,560
Speaker 1: to fight the cops too, And their comment was like well,

2587
02:24:14,560 --> 02:24:17,240
Speaker 1: we don't really get tear gassed here. And first off,

2588
02:24:17,320 --> 02:24:19,119
Speaker 1: I mean that may be true, but like you guys

2589
02:24:19,160 --> 02:24:21,280
Speaker 1: do get maced, and they're great against mace. I can

2590
02:24:21,360 --> 02:24:25,560
Speaker 1: say that from a intense personal experience. But the other

2591
02:24:25,640 --> 02:24:27,760
Speaker 1: thing is that, like, well, that's part of when we

2592
02:24:27,840 --> 02:24:31,119
Speaker 1: talk about kind of proactive practical prepping. A big part

2593
02:24:31,160 --> 02:24:35,840
Speaker 1: of it is thinking about stuff that like maybe unlikely,

2594
02:24:36,080 --> 02:24:38,960
Speaker 1: but it's not impossible, and that if you don't have

2595
02:24:39,320 --> 02:24:41,200
Speaker 1: shit on hand, you're not going to be able to

2596
02:24:41,280 --> 02:24:41,920
Speaker 1: deal with, right.

2597
02:24:42,000 --> 02:24:42,160
Speaker 4: Yeah.

2598
02:24:42,320 --> 02:24:45,039
Speaker 1: And one of those things is having a fucking respirator. Basically,

2599
02:24:45,200 --> 02:24:47,880
Speaker 1: everybody who is capable of affording them should have a

2600
02:24:47,920 --> 02:24:50,120
Speaker 1: half or a full faced respirator. You should get that,

2601
02:24:50,280 --> 02:24:53,040
Speaker 1: you should get a couple of spare filters, and you

2602
02:24:53,080 --> 02:24:54,720
Speaker 1: should just have it, even if you're in a place

2603
02:24:54,720 --> 02:24:57,120
Speaker 1: where wildfire smoke has never been a problem for you,

2604
02:24:57,240 --> 02:25:01,120
Speaker 1: because it will be at some point. That's just basically guaranteed.

2605
02:25:01,280 --> 02:25:05,440
Speaker 7: Yeah, And I want to say for dogs, I don't

2606
02:25:05,480 --> 02:25:07,920
Speaker 7: know about cats, but they make masks for dogs, they

2607
02:25:08,000 --> 02:25:11,720
Speaker 7: make respirators for dogs. The brand that I've gotten that

2608
02:25:11,800 --> 02:25:14,640
Speaker 7: I can't specifically I haven't compared to other brands is

2609
02:25:14,680 --> 02:25:18,120
Speaker 7: called canine mask. And then I know people who have

2610
02:25:18,320 --> 02:25:22,880
Speaker 7: made their own dog respirators basically out of and ninety

2611
02:25:22,920 --> 02:25:27,600
Speaker 7: fives and tape and stuff. And then if your dog,

2612
02:25:28,040 --> 02:25:29,600
Speaker 7: if you're really on top of it, you're going to

2613
02:25:29,760 --> 02:25:32,720
Speaker 7: do the work to acclimate your dog to this, right, Yeah, reward,

2614
02:25:33,440 --> 02:25:36,440
Speaker 7: reward your dog greatly and slowly build up their tolerance.

2615
02:25:36,720 --> 02:25:38,040
Speaker 7: And if you don't have time for that, you can

2616
02:25:38,080 --> 02:25:39,959
Speaker 7: put a cone on your dog to keep your dog

2617
02:25:40,040 --> 02:25:42,560
Speaker 7: to keep the mask on. And obviously you don't want to,

2618
02:25:42,680 --> 02:25:45,240
Speaker 7: like I mean, mostly just want to keep your dog inside, right,

2619
02:25:45,320 --> 02:25:50,360
Speaker 7: but yeah, if your dogs, yeah, exactly. There's actually an

2620
02:25:50,440 --> 02:25:53,320
Speaker 7: argument for pad training my dog that I I've never

2621
02:25:53,400 --> 02:25:53,920
Speaker 7: bothered to do.

2622
02:25:54,120 --> 02:25:56,040
Speaker 1: And that may be by the way, when we're talking

2623
02:25:56,040 --> 02:25:58,080
Speaker 1: about like what stuff should you keep on hand, Well,

2624
02:25:58,200 --> 02:26:01,040
Speaker 1: if you're not a normal pad training person, yeah, that

2625
02:26:01,600 --> 02:26:04,560
Speaker 1: could be a useful prepping thing to have to have

2626
02:26:04,720 --> 02:26:07,400
Speaker 1: pads on hand and to occasionally use them so the

2627
02:26:07,440 --> 02:26:10,640
Speaker 1: animal understands that that's an option, because they are a

2628
02:26:10,760 --> 02:26:13,360
Speaker 1: variety of things that might make it not feasible to

2629
02:26:13,440 --> 02:26:15,680
Speaker 1: take them outdoors, you know, if you don't have a

2630
02:26:15,800 --> 02:26:18,200
Speaker 1: yard especially, So yeah, but.

2631
02:26:18,280 --> 02:26:21,400
Speaker 7: Also say, even though it's better to look at what's

2632
02:26:21,520 --> 02:26:23,840
Speaker 7: next instead of what's current, right, Like, look at the

2633
02:26:23,920 --> 02:26:26,760
Speaker 7: next problem instead of the current problem. It's also okay,

2634
02:26:26,840 --> 02:26:30,400
Speaker 7: And what most people do realistically is prep for the

2635
02:26:30,480 --> 02:26:32,800
Speaker 7: thing that went bad last time. Yeah, you know, like

2636
02:26:33,240 --> 02:26:35,760
Speaker 7: I have an emergency blanket on me at almost all times,

2637
02:26:35,800 --> 02:26:38,160
Speaker 7: in my emergency kit because when I was like thirteen,

2638
02:26:38,280 --> 02:26:40,680
Speaker 7: it saved my life or whatever. Right, yeah, I've never

2639
02:26:40,800 --> 02:26:43,720
Speaker 7: needed one ever again, but I didn't forget that I

2640
02:26:43,800 --> 02:26:46,080
Speaker 7: needed one and someone else had one. I will just

2641
02:26:46,400 --> 02:26:49,200
Speaker 7: have one, right And you know, so if this is

2642
02:26:49,360 --> 02:26:51,480
Speaker 7: you're suddenly I need an air purer of fire. It

2643
02:26:51,640 --> 02:26:53,720
Speaker 7: maybe is too late, it may not be too late.

2644
02:26:54,680 --> 02:26:56,920
Speaker 7: It don't beat yourself up if this is when you

2645
02:26:57,040 --> 02:26:59,800
Speaker 7: decide that you're going to start having one, you know.

2646
02:27:00,560 --> 02:27:05,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, like it's for one thing. There's this, there's this.

2647
02:27:05,680 --> 02:27:08,520
Speaker 1: If you like study military history, you run into this too,

2648
02:27:08,720 --> 02:27:12,080
Speaker 1: like the problem that military planners are always fighting the

2649
02:27:12,200 --> 02:27:14,520
Speaker 1: last war right when they're when they're preparing for shit,

2650
02:27:14,560 --> 02:27:16,480
Speaker 1: which is why a lot of like stupid and useless

2651
02:27:16,600 --> 02:27:19,760
Speaker 1: craft is on hand every time we enter a new conflict.

2652
02:27:20,640 --> 02:27:23,320
Speaker 1: But everything actually really does work that way, because that's

2653
02:27:23,360 --> 02:27:26,360
Speaker 1: just the way people be and so like, I'm sure

2654
02:27:26,480 --> 02:27:29,040
Speaker 1: basically everyone in New York had extra toilet paper on

2655
02:27:29,120 --> 02:27:31,240
Speaker 1: hand just shit hit, but they weren't ready for you know,

2656
02:27:31,680 --> 02:27:34,880
Speaker 1: which is you know that's not New Yorkers, you so stupid. No,

2657
02:27:34,959 --> 02:27:37,320
Speaker 1: that's everybody. That's how that's how we all are. The

2658
02:27:37,360 --> 02:27:39,800
Speaker 1: only reason Portland was more prepared for this when it

2659
02:27:39,879 --> 02:27:42,640
Speaker 1: hit us is that we'd been getting like a significant

2660
02:27:42,680 --> 02:27:44,480
Speaker 1: portion of the city had been going out and getting

2661
02:27:44,640 --> 02:27:45,560
Speaker 1: tear gassed every night.

2662
02:27:45,640 --> 02:27:48,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, but it is.

2663
02:27:48,200 --> 02:27:50,080
Speaker 1: It does kind of mean that, like part of prepping

2664
02:27:50,600 --> 02:27:54,119
Speaker 1: is like sitting around and like bullshitting with your friends.

2665
02:27:54,240 --> 02:27:56,320
Speaker 1: If you want to like be all cool and and

2666
02:27:56,920 --> 02:27:59,160
Speaker 1: military larpie about it, you can. You can put on

2667
02:27:59,280 --> 02:28:01,320
Speaker 1: gear and you can sit around a war table with

2668
02:28:01,440 --> 02:28:03,920
Speaker 1: the map and game plan out stuff. You can make

2669
02:28:03,959 --> 02:28:07,440
Speaker 1: it fun, ye Like, there's no reason not to treat

2670
02:28:07,480 --> 02:28:09,360
Speaker 1: it like a you know, a session of D and D.

2671
02:28:09,560 --> 02:28:12,840
Speaker 1: Walk through different kinds of problems that you guys think

2672
02:28:12,879 --> 02:28:15,200
Speaker 1: are more likely and try to lay out kind of

2673
02:28:15,280 --> 02:28:18,160
Speaker 1: consequence trees as to like what might happen and what

2674
02:28:18,280 --> 02:28:20,920
Speaker 1: might be necessary, and then you know, think about what

2675
02:28:21,040 --> 02:28:23,520
Speaker 1: kind of equipment would be useful in those situations and

2676
02:28:24,240 --> 02:28:26,840
Speaker 1: put it in a kind of teer it in a

2677
02:28:26,920 --> 02:28:30,560
Speaker 1: list of like what is more affordable, what is more likely,

2678
02:28:30,760 --> 02:28:33,200
Speaker 1: and you know, kind of trioge with that, and what's

2679
02:28:33,320 --> 02:28:36,360
Speaker 1: small too, Yeah, what's small? Like what's easy to have

2680
02:28:36,520 --> 02:28:38,440
Speaker 1: on hand? I'm going to go get eye drops.

2681
02:28:38,520 --> 02:28:38,640
Speaker 3: Now.

2682
02:28:38,840 --> 02:28:41,640
Speaker 7: I don't keep eye drops around normally, But as I'm

2683
02:28:41,720 --> 02:28:43,480
Speaker 7: like looking at this stuff and I'm talking to people

2684
02:28:43,480 --> 02:28:45,800
Speaker 7: who deal with smoke, They're like, well, the half mask

2685
02:28:45,879 --> 02:28:47,400
Speaker 7: rustpbraider is great, but if you don't have a full

2686
02:28:47,440 --> 02:28:49,840
Speaker 7: mask rust braider, bring eye drops, yeah, you know. And

2687
02:28:49,879 --> 02:28:52,600
Speaker 7: I'm like, oh, that's not something I ever considered. That's

2688
02:28:52,800 --> 02:28:55,080
Speaker 7: cheap and takes up no room in my truck.

2689
02:28:55,400 --> 02:28:57,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, you can have that in your go bag. You

2690
02:28:57,240 --> 02:28:58,200
Speaker 1: can have that in your car.

2691
02:28:58,440 --> 02:28:59,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know.

2692
02:28:59,320 --> 02:29:04,240
Speaker 1: I always heap a set of bone knives and nitrial

2693
02:29:04,360 --> 02:29:07,800
Speaker 1: gloves and a tarp in my car because I like

2694
02:29:07,879 --> 02:29:11,840
Speaker 1: to process roadkill. But there's other disasters that's potentially useful,

2695
02:29:12,600 --> 02:29:14,840
Speaker 1: you know, much like your pig farm. But much like

2696
02:29:14,920 --> 02:29:15,600
Speaker 1: my pig farm.

2697
02:29:15,680 --> 02:29:15,880
Speaker 12: Yeah.

2698
02:29:16,360 --> 02:29:21,920
Speaker 1: So, and it's just kind of like like this, this

2699
02:29:22,200 --> 02:29:24,320
Speaker 1: this shit's going to keep happening. Something else will probably

2700
02:29:24,360 --> 02:29:26,760
Speaker 1: happen this year that's like a chunk of the country

2701
02:29:27,000 --> 02:29:30,680
Speaker 1: dealing with some sort of terrible disaster that affects everybody

2702
02:29:30,720 --> 02:29:33,480
Speaker 1: at once that people in that area at least haven't

2703
02:29:33,520 --> 02:29:36,680
Speaker 1: dealt with before, like it, because that's the world that

2704
02:29:36,720 --> 02:29:40,680
Speaker 1: we're living in now, and so you're never going to

2705
02:29:40,720 --> 02:29:44,000
Speaker 1: be perfect at thinking through stuff. But like, the more

2706
02:29:44,080 --> 02:29:46,320
Speaker 1: time you spend kind of trying to make your brain

2707
02:29:46,480 --> 02:29:49,920
Speaker 1: elastic when it comes to disaster, the more likely you

2708
02:29:50,040 --> 02:29:51,880
Speaker 1: are to have at least some of the things that

2709
02:29:52,000 --> 02:29:55,800
Speaker 1: you need to deal with problems when they occur. Especially

2710
02:29:55,879 --> 02:29:58,520
Speaker 1: since a lot of tools are like multi use tools

2711
02:29:58,600 --> 02:30:04,520
Speaker 1: you know, are great with wildfire smoke. They're also you know,

2712
02:30:04,720 --> 02:30:08,520
Speaker 1: potentially useful if like, for example, a pandemic where to hit.

2713
02:30:08,520 --> 02:30:10,440
Speaker 7: Right, wouldn't it be awful if that all this happened

2714
02:30:10,520 --> 02:30:12,080
Speaker 7: during a respiratory pandemic.

2715
02:30:11,720 --> 02:30:12,560
Speaker 3: That would be fucked.

2716
02:30:12,760 --> 02:30:12,960
Speaker 2: Yeah.

2717
02:30:14,200 --> 02:30:16,680
Speaker 7: Yeah, And I think that if you do prepping right,

2718
02:30:17,080 --> 02:30:19,400
Speaker 7: it can actually reduce anxiety instead of increase it. A

2719
02:30:19,440 --> 02:30:21,760
Speaker 7: lot of people avoid prepping because they're afraid to engage

2720
02:30:21,760 --> 02:30:24,320
Speaker 7: with these problems because if they if they think, if

2721
02:30:24,360 --> 02:30:27,280
Speaker 7: they look at the it's the prey animal thing. I

2722
02:30:27,320 --> 02:30:29,000
Speaker 7: don't know if this is real or not. But you

2723
02:30:29,120 --> 02:30:31,119
Speaker 7: think if you don't look at the predator, it won't

2724
02:30:31,160 --> 02:30:31,520
Speaker 7: notice you.

2725
02:30:31,640 --> 02:30:32,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2726
02:30:32,440 --> 02:30:34,280
Speaker 7: And I think that people do that because they don't

2727
02:30:34,320 --> 02:30:36,520
Speaker 7: want to think about these things, and that is understandable.

2728
02:30:36,520 --> 02:30:39,600
Speaker 7: We live in a very high anxiety time, right, But

2729
02:30:40,400 --> 02:30:43,480
Speaker 7: I think that looking at these problems has overall reduced

2730
02:30:43,520 --> 02:30:46,120
Speaker 7: my anxiety around them because like, for example, when I

2731
02:30:46,240 --> 02:30:48,520
Speaker 7: lived in more in the woods than I currently do,

2732
02:30:48,560 --> 02:30:50,040
Speaker 7: and I live in a cabin in the woods, and

2733
02:30:50,120 --> 02:30:51,240
Speaker 7: I was like, what will I do if there's a

2734
02:30:51,240 --> 02:30:53,920
Speaker 7: forest fire? And I thought it through and most of

2735
02:30:53,959 --> 02:30:56,840
Speaker 7: the answer was keep my car, you know, gassed and

2736
02:30:57,080 --> 02:30:59,720
Speaker 7: ready to go and have my go bag. And then

2737
02:30:59,760 --> 02:31:02,000
Speaker 7: I was like, that's it. That's the only preparation I'm

2738
02:31:02,040 --> 02:31:04,480
Speaker 7: gonna do for this fire that may or may not happen.

2739
02:31:04,840 --> 02:31:07,320
Speaker 7: And so then I stopped worrying about it because I've

2740
02:31:07,400 --> 02:31:10,080
Speaker 7: done everything that I'm going to do. There's like a

2741
02:31:10,200 --> 02:31:12,640
Speaker 7: next level thing, like actually these particular fires. I was

2742
02:31:12,680 --> 02:31:15,160
Speaker 7: looking it up. I think one hundred thousand people have

2743
02:31:15,280 --> 02:31:17,320
Speaker 7: been displaced from their homes in Canada as a result

2744
02:31:17,360 --> 02:31:17,520
Speaker 7: of this.

2745
02:31:17,959 --> 02:31:18,880
Speaker 4: Jeez it is.

2746
02:31:19,440 --> 02:31:23,200
Speaker 7: We are currently at one four hundred percent of the

2747
02:31:23,280 --> 02:31:25,840
Speaker 7: fires that are normal for this time of the year.

2748
02:31:26,040 --> 02:31:27,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we're not even in summer yet.

2749
02:31:28,080 --> 02:31:32,000
Speaker 7: Yeah, they've eight point seven million acres have burned so

2750
02:31:32,080 --> 02:31:34,680
Speaker 7: far this year. Six point two million per year is normal,

2751
02:31:34,959 --> 02:31:39,480
Speaker 7: like total, and we're not at summer yet, and so

2752
02:31:40,400 --> 02:31:44,720
Speaker 7: shit's gonna get worse, but it's not. But we can

2753
02:31:45,480 --> 02:31:47,720
Speaker 7: we can handle it. And we can like look at

2754
02:31:47,760 --> 02:31:49,880
Speaker 7: these things, and we can look at the predator and

2755
02:31:50,959 --> 02:31:53,640
Speaker 7: well we can't it's invisible because of the yeah, little

2756
02:31:53,760 --> 02:31:55,039
Speaker 7: invisibility field.

2757
02:31:54,959 --> 02:31:55,680
Speaker 4: But we can, we can.

2758
02:31:55,760 --> 02:31:57,720
Speaker 1: I mean there are some predators that we can look at,

2759
02:31:57,800 --> 02:31:59,440
Speaker 1: which is where I should say that, Like there's a

2760
02:31:59,480 --> 02:32:02,560
Speaker 1: pretty good move about pipelines that came out recently. Oh yeah,

2761
02:32:03,080 --> 02:32:05,640
Speaker 1: but uh yeah, no, I mean you you have like

2762
02:32:06,000 --> 02:32:09,920
Speaker 1: looking at in the face is necessary and also finding

2763
02:32:10,000 --> 02:32:11,600
Speaker 1: this is part of why I brought up the first

2764
02:32:11,640 --> 02:32:14,160
Speaker 1: thing I brought up was those those Coarsey Rosenthal filters

2765
02:32:14,240 --> 02:32:17,240
Speaker 1: because like having a thing to do when like you

2766
02:32:17,360 --> 02:32:20,200
Speaker 1: wake up in the morning and it's orange. Yeah, Like

2767
02:32:21,000 --> 02:32:23,720
Speaker 1: it's a nice way to allay the doom feeling, Like

2768
02:32:23,920 --> 02:32:28,200
Speaker 1: give yourself a task. It increases agency and when you

2769
02:32:28,320 --> 02:32:31,640
Speaker 1: once you build that thing, you know either you'll use

2770
02:32:31,680 --> 02:32:34,040
Speaker 1: it all up right away because those filters don't last forever,

2771
02:32:34,480 --> 02:32:38,280
Speaker 1: or you'll have something on hand the next time this occurs. Yeah,

2772
02:32:39,200 --> 02:32:41,880
Speaker 1: so yeah, I don't know. That's what I got, Margaret,

2773
02:32:41,879 --> 02:32:42,920
Speaker 1: You got anything else to get into?

2774
02:32:43,720 --> 02:32:43,840
Speaker 2: Uh?

2775
02:32:44,680 --> 02:32:46,800
Speaker 7: I want to say that if you're in a fire area,

2776
02:32:47,680 --> 02:32:49,000
Speaker 7: you should have your plan of escape.

2777
02:32:49,040 --> 02:32:50,000
Speaker 3: You should have your go bag.

2778
02:32:50,600 --> 02:32:52,880
Speaker 7: If a fire is like particularly likely, you're going to

2779
02:32:52,959 --> 02:32:54,680
Speaker 7: keep that go bag in your vehicle and keep it

2780
02:32:54,720 --> 02:32:59,200
Speaker 7: pointed outwards. You want to clear the area around your house,

2781
02:32:59,240 --> 02:33:01,360
Speaker 7: if that's something that you choose to do. Obviously, if

2782
02:33:01,400 --> 02:33:02,720
Speaker 7: you're like, no, the whole points I live in a

2783
02:33:02,760 --> 02:33:06,080
Speaker 7: cabin with trees over it or whatever, right, Yeah, And

2784
02:33:06,720 --> 02:33:08,680
Speaker 7: there's more that you can do to look at making

2785
02:33:08,720 --> 02:33:10,520
Speaker 7: sure that like a lot of the fires are about

2786
02:33:10,600 --> 02:33:12,800
Speaker 7: sparks getting sucked in through vents, and there's ways to

2787
02:33:12,879 --> 02:33:16,960
Speaker 7: close it up. And I also want to say this

2788
02:33:17,080 --> 02:33:19,640
Speaker 7: is a really good time to take care of each

2789
02:33:19,720 --> 02:33:23,200
Speaker 7: other in particular, look out for asthmatic friends, or if

2790
02:33:23,200 --> 02:33:26,760
Speaker 7: you're the asthmatic friend, get other people to help take

2791
02:33:26,800 --> 02:33:29,920
Speaker 7: care of you. Go get groceries for your asthmatic friends

2792
02:33:30,000 --> 02:33:32,400
Speaker 7: during a smoke emergency, because you're gonna be able to

2793
02:33:32,440 --> 02:33:34,640
Speaker 7: handle it a lot better than some other people might.

2794
02:33:35,360 --> 02:33:37,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you're heading down to the store to go

2795
02:33:37,320 --> 02:33:39,960
Speaker 1: get filters in a box fan or something, check in

2796
02:33:40,040 --> 02:33:41,880
Speaker 1: with your neighbors and see how they're doing and what

2797
02:33:41,959 --> 02:33:45,040
Speaker 1: they're capable of handling for themselves and stuff. You know,

2798
02:33:45,720 --> 02:33:50,000
Speaker 1: hopefully this won't be bad for everyone for too long,

2799
02:33:50,400 --> 02:33:53,680
Speaker 1: you know, as we always say. But like, look, guys,

2800
02:33:53,760 --> 02:33:55,880
Speaker 1: this isn't going to be the last time in New York.

2801
02:33:56,480 --> 02:33:59,800
Speaker 1: Is the color of Mexico in a breaking bad right,

2802
02:34:00,200 --> 02:34:04,040
Speaker 1: Like it's this is going to happen again, because the

2803
02:34:04,120 --> 02:34:06,520
Speaker 1: fires aren't going to stop until there's no more forest

2804
02:34:06,640 --> 02:34:09,240
Speaker 1: left than they all have more gloriously clean air.

2805
02:34:09,320 --> 02:34:09,959
Speaker 4: Yeah, totally.

2806
02:34:10,280 --> 02:34:10,480
Speaker 3: Yeah.

2807
02:34:10,640 --> 02:34:12,240
Speaker 7: Well, and then the final thing I want to say

2808
02:34:12,280 --> 02:34:14,280
Speaker 7: is that like a lot of the stuff, right, like

2809
02:34:14,400 --> 02:34:16,800
Speaker 7: walking around in a half mask respirator is a little

2810
02:34:16,800 --> 02:34:18,480
Speaker 7: bit less weird to people than walking around in a

2811
02:34:18,520 --> 02:34:20,520
Speaker 7: full face respirator is a little bit less weird than

2812
02:34:20,560 --> 02:34:24,720
Speaker 7: walking around in a gas mask. And we actually need

2813
02:34:24,840 --> 02:34:26,960
Speaker 7: to build these social norms. I think the reason that

2814
02:34:27,000 --> 02:34:30,720
Speaker 7: people have stopped masking in a lot of parts of

2815
02:34:30,720 --> 02:34:32,760
Speaker 7: the country is literally just because of social norms. Have

2816
02:34:32,879 --> 02:34:35,320
Speaker 7: stopped having people mask and people don't want to be

2817
02:34:35,400 --> 02:34:38,040
Speaker 7: the weirdo with a mask. And I will say, as

2818
02:34:38,080 --> 02:34:40,520
Speaker 7: someone who has been the weirdo for the past thirty

2819
02:34:40,600 --> 02:34:44,520
Speaker 7: years of my life, it's not that bad to be

2820
02:34:44,640 --> 02:34:48,520
Speaker 7: the weirdo. And we can build new social norms. And

2821
02:34:48,640 --> 02:34:51,560
Speaker 7: so if you're worried about wearing a half mask respirator

2822
02:34:51,600 --> 02:34:54,120
Speaker 7: and a smoke emergency because you'll look weird, it is

2823
02:34:54,240 --> 02:34:57,879
Speaker 7: better than getting sick.

2824
02:34:58,200 --> 02:35:01,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, it's one of those things. All of us

2825
02:35:01,360 --> 02:35:04,000
Speaker 1: crazy people had a nice moment yeah, at the start

2826
02:35:04,040 --> 02:35:06,200
Speaker 1: of the pandemic when we like looked over at our

2827
02:35:06,280 --> 02:35:10,000
Speaker 1: mountains of beans and storable foods and rifles, and.

2828
02:35:10,320 --> 02:35:12,960
Speaker 4: Ah, it was all worthwhile.

2829
02:35:13,120 --> 02:35:16,560
Speaker 7: Yeah, And so we need to break the social modum

2830
02:35:16,560 --> 02:35:19,520
Speaker 7: about preparing in general, right, And I actually, I mean

2831
02:35:19,520 --> 02:35:21,160
Speaker 7: if you're listening to the show, then you're probably a

2832
02:35:21,200 --> 02:35:24,200
Speaker 7: little bit aware of this, but we just yeah, like

2833
02:35:24,320 --> 02:35:26,879
Speaker 7: talk to your friends who wouldn't normally talk about preparing

2834
02:35:27,000 --> 02:35:29,920
Speaker 7: and talk about how we can how we can do this.

2835
02:35:30,080 --> 02:35:32,360
Speaker 7: We need to make preparedness like a part of our

2836
02:35:32,440 --> 02:35:36,400
Speaker 7: culture because shit is getting more intense.

2837
02:35:36,920 --> 02:35:41,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you know, handle handle your shit. Sorry, this

2838
02:35:41,760 --> 02:35:45,200
Speaker 1: is happening to you, you east Sts, you Coasti's I

2839
02:35:45,280 --> 02:35:48,200
Speaker 1: did hear a good joke recently where someone was like,

2840
02:35:49,080 --> 02:35:52,360
Speaker 1: the visibility is so bad that we New Yorkers can't

2841
02:35:52,400 --> 02:35:56,680
Speaker 1: even go on walking here anymore. Yeah, it's good. It's

2842
02:35:56,760 --> 02:36:06,440
Speaker 1: good anyway. Enjoy that joke everybody, and avoid dying. Hey,

2843
02:36:06,600 --> 02:36:09,680
Speaker 1: we'll be back Monday with more episodes every week from

2844
02:36:09,720 --> 02:36:11,400
Speaker 1: now until the heat death of the Universe.

2845
02:36:12,000 --> 02:36:14,360
Speaker 3: It Could Happen Here as a production of cool Zone Media.

2846
02:36:14,600 --> 02:36:17,240
Speaker 3: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

2847
02:36:17,320 --> 02:36:20,440
Speaker 3: coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

2848
02:36:20,440 --> 02:36:23,600
Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can

2849
02:36:23,680 --> 02:36:26,320
Speaker 3: find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated monthly at

2850
02:36:26,400 --> 02:36:28,560
Speaker 3: coolzonemedia dot com slash sources.

2851
02:36:28,800 --> 02:36:29,600
Speaker 9: Thanks for listening.