WEBVTT - TechStuff Classic: Authentication Tech and You

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to tech Stuff, a production from iHeartRadio. Hey Thearon,

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host, Jonathan Strickland. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>an executive producer with iHeartRadio. And how the tech are you? Well,

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<v Speaker 1>it's time for another tech Stuff classic episode and this

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<v Speaker 1>episode is titled Authentication, Tech and You. It originally published

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<v Speaker 1>on February twenty second, twenty seventeen. Let's have a listen.

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<v Speaker 1>I feel like security is becoming a bigger and bigger

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<v Speaker 1>concern as it should be for a lot of people.

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<v Speaker 1>People are more aware of it, I think than they

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<v Speaker 1>were perhaps five years ago. Not everyone is practicing good

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<v Speaker 1>security measures. Not everyone's practicing two factor authentication or multi

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<v Speaker 1>factor authentication. We'll talk about that in this episode. And

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<v Speaker 1>if you weren't familiar with what that's all about, That's

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<v Speaker 1>why I'm wanted to do the show was to kind

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<v Speaker 1>of explain what that actually means and why it is important.

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<v Speaker 1>Authentication is something that we should probably define. First of all,

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<v Speaker 1>it's the process or action of proving something to be true, genuine,

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<v Speaker 1>or valid. So that covers a broad spectrum right authentication.

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<v Speaker 1>You could be talking about authenticating a historical artifact. That's

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<v Speaker 1>a great example, you bring a historical artifact to an expert,

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<v Speaker 1>they authenticate that it is in fact a historical artifact

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<v Speaker 1>and not something that was whipped up in some sort

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<v Speaker 1>of souvenir shop and some out of the way place.

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<v Speaker 1>But authentication has a very special role in the world

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<v Speaker 1>of technology. In the world of computers and electronics, it

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<v Speaker 1>gets a bit more specific. It's the process of verifying

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<v Speaker 1>the identity of a user or a program or process.

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<v Speaker 1>You want to make certain everything is authentic so that

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<v Speaker 1>a program or person doesn't get unauthorized access to a system.

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<v Speaker 1>So you're probably familiar with a lot of authentication processes,

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<v Speaker 1>even if you didn't call them that, because you yourself

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<v Speaker 1>have to employ them on a regular basis. Programs do too.

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<v Speaker 1>But I'm not gonna really spend a lot of time

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<v Speaker 1>talking about programs. In fact, I'm really not going to

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<v Speaker 1>dive into it at all because that gets super technical,

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<v Speaker 1>and really I think it's more important to focus on

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<v Speaker 1>the stuff that you have a direct involvement with, unless,

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<v Speaker 1>of course, you're a programmer, in which case Mia Kulpa.

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<v Speaker 1>So I'm going to focus on authentication technology targeted at humans.

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<v Speaker 1>So one day maybe I'll do a software one if

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<v Speaker 1>there's a lot of requests for it. But I feel

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<v Speaker 1>like that might just get a little too deep in

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<v Speaker 1>the weeds. So I'm going to talk about the stuff

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<v Speaker 1>you and I encounter when we try to access or

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<v Speaker 1>protect our technology and our data. Now, there are a

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<v Speaker 1>ton of different ways to do this. Some of them

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<v Speaker 1>are inherently stronger methods of authentication than others and are

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<v Speaker 1>better as far as being more secure, And all of

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<v Speaker 1>these authentication strategies can be divided into three broad categories.

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<v Speaker 1>Those categories are inherence factors, knowledge factors, and ownership factors.

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<v Speaker 1>So when you hear about two factor authentication, we're talking

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<v Speaker 1>about a specific strategy that employs different different approaches belonging

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<v Speaker 1>to different factors. Now, that doesn't really mean anything unless

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<v Speaker 1>I expand on it. So an inherence factor relies upon

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<v Speaker 1>the user him or herself. In other words, it has

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<v Speaker 1>something to do with you as a user. It has

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<v Speaker 1>to do with either your physical traits or your behavioral traits.

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<v Speaker 1>So a very easy to understand example of this would

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<v Speaker 1>be a fingerprint scanner. Right, like your fingerprints are unique

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<v Speaker 1>to you, It is something you have inherited, is inherent

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<v Speaker 1>in who you are. So it's an inherence factor, But

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<v Speaker 1>there are lots and lots of others, and I'll talk

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<v Speaker 1>about some of those later on this episode. Knowledge factors

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<v Speaker 1>are pretty self explanatory. Those are authentication strategies that rely

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<v Speaker 1>on something that the user knows, like a password or

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<v Speaker 1>a personal identification number otherwise known as a pen. Ownership

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<v Speaker 1>factors are also pretty easy to understand. Those rely on

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<v Speaker 1>something the user possesses, like a key card for security door.

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<v Speaker 1>That would be an ownership factor. Now, on top of

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<v Speaker 1>those categories, you have the additional strategies to enable authentication,

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<v Speaker 1>which includes that two factor authentication that I talked about before.

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<v Speaker 1>And maybe you don't know exactly what that means, well,

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<v Speaker 1>that's why i'm here. Really, single factor authentication relies on

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<v Speaker 1>just one component to access a system. So, for example,

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of smartphones require users to unlock the device

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<v Speaker 1>with a pin or a swipe pattern or a fingerprint scan.

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<v Speaker 1>But that's it, right, You just have to do one

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<v Speaker 1>of those things. You don't have to do multiple things,

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<v Speaker 1>and once you do, whichever method you've enabled on your device,

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<v Speaker 1>you have access to it. There's no secondary requirement. Systems

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<v Speaker 1>that use single factor authentication are weaker than those that

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<v Speaker 1>require more than one authentication strategy. In general, there are

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<v Speaker 1>some different definitions for strong authentication I'll get into, and

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<v Speaker 1>you could argue that some inherence factors are so strong

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<v Speaker 1>as to be fine on their own, But in general,

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<v Speaker 1>going with a single factor is less secure than going

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<v Speaker 1>for a two factor authentication strategy, which is exactly what

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<v Speaker 1>it sounds like. It requires two different authentication factors. That

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<v Speaker 1>means the system will require users to provide authentication in

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<v Speaker 1>two of those three categories. So an example of this

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<v Speaker 1>is an ATM card. If you want to use an

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<v Speaker 1>ATM card, you need to provide the card. That's an

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<v Speaker 1>ownership factor. You have to be in possession of the card,

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<v Speaker 1>and you have to supply the pen that's the knowledge factor.

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<v Speaker 1>So you have an ownership factor and a knowledge factor.

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<v Speaker 1>Those are two factors. That's two factor authentication. Possession of

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<v Speaker 1>one factor should not be sufficient to access the respective system,

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<v Speaker 1>nor should it lead to the discovery of the second factor.

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<v Speaker 1>In other words, if you get hold of the card

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<v Speaker 1>like you get hold of someone else's card, ideally there

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<v Speaker 1>should be no indication on the card of what the

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<v Speaker 1>pen is because you need both of those things in

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<v Speaker 1>order to access someone's account, and if you make sure

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<v Speaker 1>that only one of the two things is in possession

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<v Speaker 1>of somebody else, they still can't get your stuff. So

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<v Speaker 1>that's why you want the two factor authentication. You have

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<v Speaker 1>to possess or know both of the authentication requirements independently

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<v Speaker 1>of each other. This also applies to other factors as well.

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<v Speaker 1>It doesn't just have to be knowledge and ownership. It

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<v Speaker 1>could be ownership and inherence. It could be knowledge and inherence.

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<v Speaker 1>You get the idea. So, if you've enabled two factor

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<v Speaker 1>authentication on various online accounts, which I urge you to

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<v Speaker 1>do for any accounts that actually offer it, you've likely

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<v Speaker 1>had to supply a password as well as a code

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<v Speaker 1>sent to you in some way. For example, you might

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<v Speaker 1>have an email account that when you try and access

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<v Speaker 1>it using a brand new device, says, all right, well

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<v Speaker 1>what's your password? So you typed a little password in

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<v Speaker 1>and then says all right, well, now I'm going to

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<v Speaker 1>send you a code via text message. You need to

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<v Speaker 1>put that code into this little box here, and then

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<v Speaker 1>I'll give you access to your email. So the past

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<v Speaker 1>this word part taps into that knowledge factor because you

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<v Speaker 1>know the password and the text message taps into the

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<v Speaker 1>ownership factor because there's a specific cell phone with a

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<v Speaker 1>specific cell phone number associated with your email account, so

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<v Speaker 1>you have to be an ownership of the cell phone

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<v Speaker 1>in order to receive the text message and complete that

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<v Speaker 1>authentication strategy. Many two factor authentication systems will actually allow

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<v Speaker 1>you to designate specific devices as being safe quote unquote safe,

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<v Speaker 1>meaning that you don't have to do that every single

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<v Speaker 1>time you log in from that specific device. That way,

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<v Speaker 1>you don't end up waiting for a text message every

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<v Speaker 1>time you try and check your email from your personal laptop, computer,

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<v Speaker 1>or smartphone. Now, there are systems that require even more

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<v Speaker 1>forms of authentication, and we typically group these under the

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<v Speaker 1>category multi factor authentication, indicating you've got to supply at

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<v Speaker 1>least two methods in order to access the respective system.

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<v Speaker 1>So technically, two factor authentication is a type of multi

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<v Speaker 1>factor authentication. Most of the time, when I encounter it,

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<v Speaker 1>multi factor is being used to mean more than two.

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<v Speaker 1>I haven't personally ever encountered a system where I've had

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<v Speaker 1>to supply more than two factors. But then again, no

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<v Speaker 1>one trusts me with anything that's that important, so no

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<v Speaker 1>big surprise there. Now, confusing matters somewhat. Is this term

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<v Speaker 1>called strong authentication, which is used in a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>different places, including the European Union. In fact, it's very

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<v Speaker 1>prominently used in the EU. At first glance, you might

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<v Speaker 1>think strong authentication and two factor or multi factor authentication

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<v Speaker 1>are synonymous, that in order for it to be strong,

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<v Speaker 1>it must be at least two factor authentication, But that's

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<v Speaker 1>not actually the case. If a single authentication strategy is

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<v Speaker 1>deemed secure enough, it can fall under the category of

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<v Speaker 1>strong authentication. And so there's a lot of disagreement over

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<v Speaker 1>what the actual definition is. It makes it pretty confusing.

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<v Speaker 1>But let's give you an example. Let's say that there's

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<v Speaker 1>a retinal scanner that scans the pattern of blood vessels

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<v Speaker 1>in your eye. Now that's really difficult to replicate compared

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<v Speaker 1>to other biometric measures such as a fingerprint, which you could,

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<v Speaker 1>in fact, if you're very clever fake. So in the

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<v Speaker 1>European Union, a system that looks at the blood vessels

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<v Speaker 1>in your eye for authentication might be considered strong even

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<v Speaker 1>though it's just a single factor. Let's say you don't

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<v Speaker 1>have to provide any other information, it's just a quick

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<v Speaker 1>scan of the eye and you're in If the system

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<v Speaker 1>is robust enough, and if it's looking at something that

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<v Speaker 1>is difficult enough to replicate, it could still count as

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<v Speaker 1>strong authentication. It could even refer to knowledge based factors.

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<v Speaker 1>So let's say a system requires you to answer a

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<v Speaker 1>series of unrelated questions when you set up your account.

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<v Speaker 1>Accessing the account at a later time requires that you

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<v Speaker 1>replicate those answers. You've got to remember how you answered

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<v Speaker 1>the questions when you first set it up. It's kind

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<v Speaker 1>of like the security questions a lot of different systems

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<v Speaker 1>use right now. Now, because these questions are unrelated and

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<v Speaker 1>knowledge of one answer doesn't provide any of the other answers,

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<v Speaker 1>that could be considered strong authentication. Now, personally, I find

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<v Speaker 1>that method to be a little on the flimsy side,

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<v Speaker 1>but I'm not the one making definitions. I'm just reporting

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<v Speaker 1>them to you guys. Now we've got the basic definitions

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<v Speaker 1>out of the way, let's dive into a bit of history,

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<v Speaker 1>because you guys know, I love to talk about the

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<v Speaker 1>history of the various technologies and processes we've developed over

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<v Speaker 1>the years. So the concept of authentication is ancient. It

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<v Speaker 1>predates electronics by centuries. Throughout the years, people would have

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<v Speaker 1>to provide some sort of proof of their identities. It

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<v Speaker 1>might require someone else to vouchsay for a person, or

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<v Speaker 1>it might require a special seal belonging to a particular

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<v Speaker 1>office or noble house, placed upon an official document. You

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<v Speaker 1>may have heard that a lot of those documents would

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<v Speaker 1>be sealed with wax, and then someone would use a

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<v Speaker 1>signet ring in order to put a specific stamp in

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<v Speaker 1>that wax. That was considered a form of authentication. If

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<v Speaker 1>you saw the proper symbol, then presumably it came from

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<v Speaker 1>the proper place. Not that you couldn't create a fake

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<v Speaker 1>of that if you really wanted to, but you know

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<v Speaker 1>that was the idea. Or you might even just have

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<v Speaker 1>a password shared between a small group of people. So

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<v Speaker 1>as long as there have been secrets, there have been

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<v Speaker 1>means to identify those who should and should not have

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<v Speaker 1>access to those secrets. And secrets predate the written word.

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<v Speaker 1>But let's talk about passwords and authentication and electronics, because honestly,

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<v Speaker 1>if I did a full episode about the history of passwords,

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<v Speaker 1>that would not really be tech stuff. That would be

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<v Speaker 1>an awesome, awesome episode of stuff they don't want you

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<v Speaker 1>to know. Hint, hint. So computer passwords actually pre date

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<v Speaker 1>personal computers. Back in nineteen sixty one, MIT created a

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<v Speaker 1>password system for authorized access to its Compatible Time Sharing

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<v Speaker 1>System or CTSS. CTSS allowed multiple users to access the

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<v Speaker 1>same computational core. So imagine that you are in a

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<v Speaker 1>room and it's filled. There's like lots of tables everywhere,

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<v Speaker 1>and every table has a couple different workstations. Every workstation

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<v Speaker 1>has a screen and a keyboard, but not a computer.

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<v Speaker 1>They just have the keyboard in the screen, which are

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<v Speaker 1>connected via cables to a single computer. Everyone is sharing

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<v Speaker 1>the exact same computer. Well, way back in the day,

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<v Speaker 1>that's how a lot of computer systems were made. They

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<v Speaker 1>didn't have personal devices at every station. The stations were

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<v Speaker 1>just dummy terminals that connected to a core system. Also,

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<v Speaker 1>in those days, time sharing meant that the computer actually

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<v Speaker 1>would divvy up when it was specifically available to do

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<v Speaker 1>your calculation. So let's say you're typing in something, you're

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<v Speaker 1>programming some code, and you send it to the computer.

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<v Speaker 1>It would be responding to each station in turn, and

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<v Speaker 1>it's doing it so fast that it feels almost instantaneous,

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<v Speaker 1>or close enough to it, but in fact it would

0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:22.080
<v Speaker 1>be responding in sequence. As people had logged into the

0:14:22.160 --> 0:14:28.400
<v Speaker 1>various terminals now obviously using the same computer for all

0:14:28.400 --> 0:14:32.440
<v Speaker 1>these dummy terminals create some challenges. How can each individual

0:14:32.720 --> 0:14:36.120
<v Speaker 1>user maintain control over his or her data? How do

0:14:36.200 --> 0:14:40.040
<v Speaker 1>they maintain their own private files? Because every user had

0:14:40.080 --> 0:14:43.480
<v Speaker 1>a set of private files that other users should not

0:14:43.560 --> 0:14:47.560
<v Speaker 1>be able to access without authorization. I mean, one person

0:14:47.640 --> 0:14:50.000
<v Speaker 1>might be working on a project, someone else is working

0:14:50.040 --> 0:14:52.480
<v Speaker 1>on a totally different project. You don't want those files

0:14:52.520 --> 0:14:56.920
<v Speaker 1>to intermingle. You had to partition that stuff. So without

0:14:56.920 --> 0:15:00.000
<v Speaker 1>a password, you really couldn't do that. So if everyone

0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:02.360
<v Speaker 1>using a core machine as the processor in storage unit,

0:15:02.440 --> 0:15:05.800
<v Speaker 1>you had to create some means of differentiating one user

0:15:06.040 --> 0:15:10.720
<v Speaker 1>from another. The solution was the password, So every user

0:15:10.760 --> 0:15:13.480
<v Speaker 1>would get a unique password to enter into the system,

0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:16.960
<v Speaker 1>which would then allow that user to create and access

0:15:17.040 --> 0:15:20.480
<v Speaker 1>private files. And it also helped control the amount of

0:15:20.520 --> 0:15:24.560
<v Speaker 1>time any individual user had with the machine. Because these

0:15:24.600 --> 0:15:27.840
<v Speaker 1>machines they were rare. There were only a few of

0:15:27.880 --> 0:15:32.200
<v Speaker 1>them in nineteen sixty one, so the time on those

0:15:32.240 --> 0:15:37.400
<v Speaker 1>machines was very valuable. You know, people were hoarding time.

0:15:37.480 --> 0:15:38.960
<v Speaker 1>They were trying to do their best. You know, you

0:15:39.040 --> 0:15:42.200
<v Speaker 1>might only get a few hours a week, so they

0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:45.400
<v Speaker 1>would end up parsioning that out through passwords. It was

0:15:45.480 --> 0:15:48.680
<v Speaker 1>kind of like a controlled ticket system so that a

0:15:48.960 --> 0:15:51.920
<v Speaker 1>ride doesn't get overwhelmed with a ton of people. You

0:15:52.400 --> 0:15:54.960
<v Speaker 1>release a certain number of tickets per hour and you

0:15:55.080 --> 0:15:57.720
<v Speaker 1>keep the traffic flowing steadily. Same sort of thing, except

0:15:57.720 --> 0:16:00.440
<v Speaker 1>in this case it was with a computer access so

0:16:00.520 --> 0:16:03.160
<v Speaker 1>as a way to control the point of entry into

0:16:03.200 --> 0:16:06.920
<v Speaker 1>the system. We're going to take a quick break from

0:16:07.000 --> 0:16:20.840
<v Speaker 1>talking about authentication tech to thank our sponsors. Now, at

0:16:20.840 --> 0:16:23.720
<v Speaker 1>that time, the passwords were pretty simple, and they were

0:16:23.760 --> 0:16:27.280
<v Speaker 1>not really secure at all. It was more for the

0:16:27.320 --> 0:16:31.960
<v Speaker 1>matter of convenience than security really. After all, this predated

0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:35.320
<v Speaker 1>the Internet, so external access to the system wasn't really

0:16:35.320 --> 0:16:37.280
<v Speaker 1>a factor. If you wanted to get your hands on

0:16:37.360 --> 0:16:40.800
<v Speaker 1>those sweet, sweet private files, you actually needed to have

0:16:40.840 --> 0:16:43.960
<v Speaker 1>physical access to the system itself. You couldn't just hack

0:16:44.040 --> 0:16:46.800
<v Speaker 1>in from across the country. So in a way, that's

0:16:47.320 --> 0:16:51.200
<v Speaker 1>one factor of authentication all by itself. Ownership in this case,

0:16:51.240 --> 0:16:54.200
<v Speaker 1>the ownership doesn't really refer to something that you personally owned,

0:16:54.280 --> 0:16:59.560
<v Speaker 1>but rather your physical access to the system. But these

0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:03.280
<v Speaker 1>weren't encrypted or stored in a particularly safe way. They

0:17:03.280 --> 0:17:06.960
<v Speaker 1>were in plain text. So just a year after they

0:17:07.119 --> 0:17:12.119
<v Speaker 1>debuted this password strategy, a graduate student named Alan Scherer

0:17:12.440 --> 0:17:16.639
<v Speaker 1>accessed the entire list of unencrypted passwords stored on the

0:17:16.680 --> 0:17:20.120
<v Speaker 1>system and printed them out. Now, the reason Shared did

0:17:20.119 --> 0:17:23.439
<v Speaker 1>this was not to access private files created by other people.

0:17:24.040 --> 0:17:26.640
<v Speaker 1>It was so that Share could get more time on

0:17:26.680 --> 0:17:30.280
<v Speaker 1>the system because every student was allotted just four hours

0:17:30.280 --> 0:17:33.879
<v Speaker 1>of access per week, and he needed more access, and

0:17:33.960 --> 0:17:36.560
<v Speaker 1>he figured, well, there's all these other hours of access

0:17:36.560 --> 0:17:40.000
<v Speaker 1>that are going unused from other students. That's not fair.

0:17:40.359 --> 0:17:44.159
<v Speaker 1>I'll just take their hours and use them myself. The

0:17:44.200 --> 0:17:46.320
<v Speaker 1>way he did this was he actually created a punch

0:17:46.359 --> 0:17:51.000
<v Speaker 1>card that contained the file name and location for the

0:17:51.040 --> 0:17:54.760
<v Speaker 1>password list, and it also contained a set of instructions

0:17:54.800 --> 0:17:58.480
<v Speaker 1>that said take this file and send it to a printer.

0:17:59.840 --> 0:18:02.960
<v Speaker 1>Didn't even have to physically look at this file at all.

0:18:03.000 --> 0:18:05.200
<v Speaker 1>He just had to figure out what was the file name,

0:18:05.320 --> 0:18:08.240
<v Speaker 1>where was it located on the system, and then include

0:18:08.240 --> 0:18:11.639
<v Speaker 1>the instructions send to printer. By the way, if you

0:18:11.640 --> 0:18:13.880
<v Speaker 1>want to know more about how punch cards work and

0:18:14.000 --> 0:18:17.680
<v Speaker 1>the way that they were an integral part of early computing,

0:18:18.160 --> 0:18:20.920
<v Speaker 1>you can actually listen to a classic two thousand and

0:18:21.040 --> 0:18:25.199
<v Speaker 1>nine Tech Stuff episode titled Computers from the past, and

0:18:25.320 --> 0:18:27.439
<v Speaker 1>Chris Palette and I talked a lot about them in

0:18:27.480 --> 0:18:31.960
<v Speaker 1>that episode. So it's easy in hindsight to criticize the

0:18:32.080 --> 0:18:34.480
<v Speaker 1>MIT strategy. But keep in mind this was at a

0:18:34.560 --> 0:18:39.360
<v Speaker 1>time when unauthorized access to computers was exceedingly rare, because well,

0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:43.040
<v Speaker 1>the computers were exceedingly rare. As computers began to proliferate

0:18:43.400 --> 0:18:46.840
<v Speaker 1>throughout all areas of life, the need for more secure

0:18:46.920 --> 0:18:51.679
<v Speaker 1>access strategies grew. According to Roger Needham, who was a

0:18:51.680 --> 0:18:55.880
<v Speaker 1>professor of computing at Cambridge University, the Cambridge Lab came

0:18:56.000 --> 0:18:59.159
<v Speaker 1>up with a concept to make passwords more secure, and

0:18:59.200 --> 0:19:02.400
<v Speaker 1>that's the concept of hashing. Now, that's when you convert

0:19:02.400 --> 0:19:06.399
<v Speaker 1>passwords of variable lengths into a fixed length string of

0:19:06.480 --> 0:19:10.760
<v Speaker 1>characters using an algorithm for the transformation. It's a fancy

0:19:10.800 --> 0:19:13.159
<v Speaker 1>way of saying, no matter how long or short a

0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:18.280
<v Speaker 1>password is, you put it through a series of mathematical processes.

0:19:18.480 --> 0:19:22.119
<v Speaker 1>Will you convert the password into numerals first? Then you

0:19:22.200 --> 0:19:26.840
<v Speaker 1>do this series of mathematic processes, the result of which

0:19:27.000 --> 0:19:31.720
<v Speaker 1>is you get a much longer string of characters and

0:19:31.760 --> 0:19:34.640
<v Speaker 1>that represents the password. And it doesn't matter how long

0:19:34.720 --> 0:19:38.240
<v Speaker 1>or short the original password was. All of the hashed

0:19:38.560 --> 0:19:42.399
<v Speaker 1>versions of the password are the same length. So let's

0:19:42.440 --> 0:19:45.000
<v Speaker 1>say the hash is eighty characters long. That means if

0:19:45.000 --> 0:19:51.000
<v Speaker 1>your base password is pass or its anti disestablishmentarianism or

0:19:51.080 --> 0:19:54.280
<v Speaker 1>anything else, it will end up converted into a string

0:19:54.359 --> 0:19:56.959
<v Speaker 1>of eighty characters. So if someone gets hold of the

0:19:57.000 --> 0:19:59.679
<v Speaker 1>hashed passwords, those are the only ones that are being

0:19:59.720 --> 0:20:02.080
<v Speaker 1>stored on the system, they would still have to figure

0:20:02.080 --> 0:20:05.000
<v Speaker 1>out what was the mechanism used to generate the hashes

0:20:05.080 --> 0:20:08.240
<v Speaker 1>in order to guess what the root password was, because

0:20:08.240 --> 0:20:11.280
<v Speaker 1>otherwise they're all going to look like they're eighty characters long.

0:20:11.320 --> 0:20:14.320
<v Speaker 1>You won't know which ones were short passwords or long passwords.

0:20:16.160 --> 0:20:18.600
<v Speaker 1>In order to do that, obviously, you have to decide

0:20:18.640 --> 0:20:22.520
<v Speaker 1>upon what the specific sequence of mathematical operations are going

0:20:22.560 --> 0:20:27.040
<v Speaker 1>to be and what seed you're using for those operations.

0:20:28.240 --> 0:20:30.440
<v Speaker 1>And once you do that, then you're able to make

0:20:30.520 --> 0:20:35.280
<v Speaker 1>these kind of changes. So Needham said that the system

0:20:35.400 --> 0:20:38.840
<v Speaker 1>was created and implemented in the mid to late nineteen sixties,

0:20:39.240 --> 0:20:45.800
<v Speaker 1>so it wasn't very long after the MIT rollout of passwords.

0:20:46.440 --> 0:20:49.400
<v Speaker 1>Now later, still, computer scientists began to develop more secure

0:20:49.480 --> 0:20:54.240
<v Speaker 1>hashing strategies. This includes salting passwords, which means adding characters

0:20:54.280 --> 0:20:57.720
<v Speaker 1>to a password before you hash it. So a simple

0:20:57.760 --> 0:21:00.800
<v Speaker 1>example of this is using a computer's claw to insert

0:21:00.880 --> 0:21:04.680
<v Speaker 1>digits into the password and then hashing the new password,

0:21:04.840 --> 0:21:07.080
<v Speaker 1>which makes it even harder for a hacker to figure

0:21:07.080 --> 0:21:10.120
<v Speaker 1>out the root password from the hash because they need

0:21:10.160 --> 0:21:13.399
<v Speaker 1>to know at what time that operation was performed on

0:21:13.440 --> 0:21:17.879
<v Speaker 1>the original password, otherwise they wouldn't be able to replicate

0:21:17.960 --> 0:21:22.280
<v Speaker 1>the original password. Now, this is easier to understand if

0:21:22.320 --> 0:21:24.840
<v Speaker 1>I give you an example. So let's say your password

0:21:25.480 --> 0:21:29.520
<v Speaker 1>has been set to let's say tech stuff. You chose

0:21:29.560 --> 0:21:32.320
<v Speaker 1>tech stuff as your password. First of all, that was dumb.

0:21:32.480 --> 0:21:35.160
<v Speaker 1>Don't do that. Don't pick a word that's easy to guess,

0:21:35.200 --> 0:21:37.480
<v Speaker 1>even if it's a name like tech stuff, which is

0:21:37.760 --> 0:21:41.399
<v Speaker 1>granted an awesome show. But you've chosen tech stuff for

0:21:41.440 --> 0:21:45.240
<v Speaker 1>this example. You access the system at two thirty five

0:21:45.240 --> 0:21:48.439
<v Speaker 1>in the afternoon. Let's say that the computer converts that

0:21:48.520 --> 0:21:51.720
<v Speaker 1>into military time, so that gives you fourteen thirty five,

0:21:52.040 --> 0:21:55.199
<v Speaker 1>and then it salts your password with those numbers, so

0:21:55.440 --> 0:21:57.960
<v Speaker 1>instead of it just saying text stuff, now it says

0:21:58.080 --> 0:22:04.920
<v Speaker 1>T one E four C three H five stuff. That

0:22:04.960 --> 0:22:09.280
<v Speaker 1>password then gets hashed into that eighty character long version

0:22:09.400 --> 0:22:12.240
<v Speaker 1>stored on the computers. By the way, that eighty characters

0:22:12.280 --> 0:22:15.679
<v Speaker 1>is just an arbitrary example. It doesn't really mean anything.

0:22:15.720 --> 0:22:18.720
<v Speaker 1>I just need a number for the example. Now, let's

0:22:18.720 --> 0:22:21.639
<v Speaker 1>say you access the same system the following day, but

0:22:21.680 --> 0:22:24.119
<v Speaker 1>this time it's one twenty three in the afternoon. Remember

0:22:24.119 --> 0:22:25.960
<v Speaker 1>it was two thirty five the day before, but now

0:22:25.960 --> 0:22:29.640
<v Speaker 1>it's one twenty three the next day. The salted password

0:22:29.680 --> 0:22:31.960
<v Speaker 1>is going to be different because it's going to convert

0:22:32.000 --> 0:22:34.520
<v Speaker 1>one to twenty three to military time, and then it's

0:22:34.560 --> 0:22:37.520
<v Speaker 1>going to salt the password that way, so it would

0:22:37.560 --> 0:22:41.120
<v Speaker 1>be T one E three C two H three stuff.

0:22:42.800 --> 0:22:45.679
<v Speaker 1>The hashed value will end up being different as well,

0:22:46.000 --> 0:22:49.359
<v Speaker 1>because it's inserted those new numbers. So that means that

0:22:49.440 --> 0:22:52.600
<v Speaker 1>if the hacker gets two versions of your hashed password,

0:22:53.000 --> 0:22:55.440
<v Speaker 1>they're still going to be different from each other. It's

0:22:55.480 --> 0:22:57.680
<v Speaker 1>all going to be dependent upon the time you tried

0:22:57.720 --> 0:23:01.960
<v Speaker 1>to access the system. Now itself, it knows when you

0:23:02.000 --> 0:23:04.879
<v Speaker 1>were accessing it, so it's able to do all of

0:23:04.920 --> 0:23:09.800
<v Speaker 1>this decoding easily. There's no problem for the system, but

0:23:09.880 --> 0:23:12.960
<v Speaker 1>it makes it difficult for a hacker to figure out

0:23:12.960 --> 0:23:15.919
<v Speaker 1>what your password was based upon the hashed value that

0:23:16.000 --> 0:23:20.280
<v Speaker 1>appears inside the system. Now, of course, hackers can bypass

0:23:20.320 --> 0:23:23.160
<v Speaker 1>all that and try to hack a password using brute force.

0:23:23.840 --> 0:23:26.720
<v Speaker 1>That's when someone and usually it's a computer program not

0:23:26.760 --> 0:23:31.240
<v Speaker 1>a person these days, submits endless guesses into a password

0:23:31.240 --> 0:23:35.280
<v Speaker 1>protected account in order to gain access. There's no need

0:23:35.320 --> 0:23:38.680
<v Speaker 1>to work backward from hashed values. Using this approach, you're

0:23:38.760 --> 0:23:42.439
<v Speaker 1>just guessing the root password from the get go. But

0:23:43.040 --> 0:23:45.400
<v Speaker 1>it takes a lot of time, particularly if the user

0:23:45.440 --> 0:23:49.000
<v Speaker 1>has created a strong password. So the longer and more

0:23:49.040 --> 0:23:52.880
<v Speaker 1>complex a password, the less likely a traditional computer can

0:23:52.920 --> 0:23:56.440
<v Speaker 1>hack it in a reasonable amount of time. Given enough

0:23:56.480 --> 0:24:01.359
<v Speaker 1>time and enough computing power, any password and ultimately be

0:24:01.640 --> 0:24:05.719
<v Speaker 1>cracked by brute force. But the more complex it is

0:24:05.760 --> 0:24:09.200
<v Speaker 1>and the longer it is, the more time it requires

0:24:09.240 --> 0:24:13.200
<v Speaker 1>to a point where it can approach time that last centuries,

0:24:13.240 --> 0:24:14.960
<v Speaker 1>which means no one's going to bother to do it

0:24:15.040 --> 0:24:17.560
<v Speaker 1>because they're not going to be around to actually see

0:24:17.600 --> 0:24:22.000
<v Speaker 1>it work. Assuming you've picked a good strong password, So

0:24:22.000 --> 0:24:24.440
<v Speaker 1>why you should never use real words or even names

0:24:24.480 --> 0:24:26.520
<v Speaker 1>as a password. They're too easy for a computer to

0:24:26.560 --> 0:24:30.320
<v Speaker 1>guess using what's called a dictionary attack, So make sure

0:24:30.359 --> 0:24:33.520
<v Speaker 1>you create those really strong passwords and as always, I

0:24:33.600 --> 0:24:37.840
<v Speaker 1>like to recommend using a password management program so that

0:24:37.880 --> 0:24:41.240
<v Speaker 1>way you don't have to remember those strong passwords, because

0:24:41.240 --> 0:24:44.560
<v Speaker 1>obviously the downside to creating a strong password is they're

0:24:44.560 --> 0:24:47.600
<v Speaker 1>difficult to remember. It's really easy to remember a word

0:24:47.760 --> 0:24:51.840
<v Speaker 1>like tech stuff, but that's not very secure. Unfortunately, the

0:24:51.880 --> 0:24:55.080
<v Speaker 1>more secure approach is also difficult to remember, and you

0:24:55.119 --> 0:24:58.080
<v Speaker 1>don't want to just write stuff down someplace because that

0:24:58.160 --> 0:25:00.880
<v Speaker 1>kind of defeats the purpose of having a secret password.

0:25:01.480 --> 0:25:04.560
<v Speaker 1>Having a really good password management system and then just

0:25:04.600 --> 0:25:09.480
<v Speaker 1>having to remember one good master password simplifies things. So

0:25:09.560 --> 0:25:12.320
<v Speaker 1>I recommend that. Well, I've got a lot more to

0:25:12.320 --> 0:25:15.760
<v Speaker 1>say about authentication strategies, but before I get into it,

0:25:16.160 --> 0:25:29.560
<v Speaker 1>let's take a quick break to thank our sponsor. Okay,

0:25:29.600 --> 0:25:32.560
<v Speaker 1>so I think we've covered passwords pretty thoroughly. Let's talk

0:25:32.600 --> 0:25:36.760
<v Speaker 1>about some other authentication strategies. One of the earliest authentication

0:25:36.840 --> 0:25:40.600
<v Speaker 1>systems and electronics was the personal identification number, or PEN.

0:25:41.480 --> 0:25:45.680
<v Speaker 1>And technically, yeah, if you say PEN number, you're repeating yourself,

0:25:45.800 --> 0:25:48.320
<v Speaker 1>just as if you were to say ATM machine. And

0:25:48.480 --> 0:25:51.080
<v Speaker 1>I still do it just like a lot of people.

0:25:51.440 --> 0:25:55.800
<v Speaker 1>If someone can realistically argue that irrespective is a word,

0:25:56.200 --> 0:25:59.320
<v Speaker 1>I can argue pen number is acceptable, dang it, so

0:25:59.400 --> 0:26:04.080
<v Speaker 1>don't write me. The PEN debuted on the world scene

0:26:04.240 --> 0:26:09.399
<v Speaker 1>in nineteen sixty seven. That's when Barclays of London introduced

0:26:09.400 --> 0:26:12.879
<v Speaker 1>the first ATM system, which a man named John Shepherd

0:26:12.960 --> 0:26:16.919
<v Speaker 1>barn invented Barclays to come up with a method that

0:26:17.040 --> 0:26:21.639
<v Speaker 1>kept customer's finances safe. Otherwise, anyone might be able to

0:26:21.680 --> 0:26:24.800
<v Speaker 1>access anyone else's money, and that does not make for

0:26:24.880 --> 0:26:28.040
<v Speaker 1>a very positive banking experience. I mean it does for

0:26:28.119 --> 0:26:29.840
<v Speaker 1>the person who makes off with all the cash, but

0:26:29.880 --> 0:26:33.600
<v Speaker 1>for everybody else it's pretty negative. The solution was the PEN,

0:26:33.960 --> 0:26:37.399
<v Speaker 1>which was a numeric code unique to the customer. The

0:26:37.440 --> 0:26:41.920
<v Speaker 1>standard for pen management is actually called ISSO nine five

0:26:42.119 --> 0:26:45.239
<v Speaker 1>six y four dash one ISO ninety five sixty four

0:26:45.320 --> 0:26:49.600
<v Speaker 1>dash one. Technically, this standard allows for a spectrum of

0:26:49.680 --> 0:26:53.320
<v Speaker 1>pen lengths. We're mostly used to four digits, but it

0:26:53.359 --> 0:26:55.760
<v Speaker 1>doesn't have to just before you could go from four

0:26:55.840 --> 0:26:58.280
<v Speaker 1>that's the minimum number of digits you can use, but

0:26:58.359 --> 0:27:01.720
<v Speaker 1>you can use up to twelve digits. But we humans

0:27:01.920 --> 0:27:05.159
<v Speaker 1>tend to have trouble remembering lots of unrelated numbers, and

0:27:05.280 --> 0:27:07.960
<v Speaker 1>if you're choosing lots of related numbers, then that makes

0:27:08.000 --> 0:27:10.639
<v Speaker 1>it pretty easy for people to guess your pin. So

0:27:11.200 --> 0:27:14.800
<v Speaker 1>most ATMs, especially in the banking and finance industry, would

0:27:14.840 --> 0:27:17.600
<v Speaker 1>require a pin of four digits in length, which dates

0:27:17.600 --> 0:27:21.159
<v Speaker 1>back to the first ATM system. So why was the

0:27:21.240 --> 0:27:25.920
<v Speaker 1>number four picked in the very beginning? Why just four digits? Well,

0:27:25.960 --> 0:27:28.840
<v Speaker 1>that's because John Shepherd Barren, who originally was going to

0:27:28.920 --> 0:27:33.119
<v Speaker 1>use a six digit pen system, found his wife Caroline,

0:27:33.119 --> 0:27:37.080
<v Speaker 1>had trouble remembering anything more than four digits, so he

0:27:37.160 --> 0:27:39.679
<v Speaker 1>sensed that there could be a possible problem with longer

0:27:39.760 --> 0:27:44.000
<v Speaker 1>pins and decided to stick with four digits instead of six.

0:27:44.359 --> 0:27:48.199
<v Speaker 1>That's why we have that now. Those early ATMs didn't

0:27:48.280 --> 0:27:51.119
<v Speaker 1>accept plastic cards with a magnetic stripe on them the

0:27:51.119 --> 0:27:54.600
<v Speaker 1>way modern ones do, and obviously the chip and pin

0:27:54.760 --> 0:27:58.120
<v Speaker 1>system was decades away. So instead, what you would use

0:27:58.160 --> 0:28:00.920
<v Speaker 1>as a check you would actually insert a check into

0:28:01.000 --> 0:28:04.360
<v Speaker 1>the machine, and each check had information encoded upon it

0:28:04.800 --> 0:28:07.520
<v Speaker 1>that allowed the ATM to read the information on it,

0:28:07.560 --> 0:28:10.560
<v Speaker 1>for example, how much money it represented and who it

0:28:10.600 --> 0:28:13.840
<v Speaker 1>was supposed to go to. You would couple this with

0:28:13.920 --> 0:28:17.320
<v Speaker 1>the proper pen, and then the ATM could dispense cash

0:28:17.359 --> 0:28:19.680
<v Speaker 1>at all hours of the day, which eliminated the need

0:28:19.680 --> 0:28:22.240
<v Speaker 1>for people to make time to access the bank during

0:28:22.320 --> 0:28:25.880
<v Speaker 1>bank hours, which we all know are the shortest hours

0:28:26.000 --> 0:28:28.600
<v Speaker 1>in the world. If you'd like to learn more about

0:28:28.640 --> 0:28:31.400
<v Speaker 1>ATMs and how they work, be sure to check out

0:28:31.400 --> 0:28:35.160
<v Speaker 1>the classic episode of tech stuff called appropriately Enough How

0:28:35.280 --> 0:28:39.480
<v Speaker 1>ATMs Work. I republished it in February twenty fifteen, so

0:28:39.520 --> 0:28:41.680
<v Speaker 1>you can listen to that, but it actually dates much

0:28:41.720 --> 0:28:45.120
<v Speaker 1>further than that. This is really a blast from the

0:28:45.160 --> 0:28:48.840
<v Speaker 1>past with some of the stuff in this episode. Now,

0:28:48.840 --> 0:28:53.000
<v Speaker 1>another strategy is to use tokens. That's very popular for

0:28:53.160 --> 0:28:56.840
<v Speaker 1>authentication strategies. There's several versions of these, including tokens that

0:28:56.840 --> 0:28:59.360
<v Speaker 1>have a static code that acts like a key to

0:28:59.400 --> 0:29:02.760
<v Speaker 1>a system's line. Now, those are not terribly secure because

0:29:02.800 --> 0:29:05.720
<v Speaker 1>if someone else gets hold of that token, they can

0:29:05.880 --> 0:29:08.760
<v Speaker 1>pretty much get into the system. They represent kind of

0:29:08.760 --> 0:29:13.400
<v Speaker 1>a single factor method of authentication on their own. For example,

0:29:13.400 --> 0:29:14.960
<v Speaker 1>if you work in a building that requires you to

0:29:15.000 --> 0:29:17.480
<v Speaker 1>tap a security card to a panel in order to

0:29:17.560 --> 0:29:21.200
<v Speaker 1>unlock the door, that's a single factor approach, right. There's

0:29:21.240 --> 0:29:23.760
<v Speaker 1>no other need to submit any other proof that you

0:29:23.800 --> 0:29:27.120
<v Speaker 1>should have access. As long as you possess the security card,

0:29:27.480 --> 0:29:29.520
<v Speaker 1>you can enter the building. It's just like having a

0:29:29.520 --> 0:29:33.880
<v Speaker 1>physical key to a physical lock, you could pair that

0:29:34.240 --> 0:29:37.760
<v Speaker 1>with another factor and then make the security stronger. Right,

0:29:37.880 --> 0:29:42.080
<v Speaker 1>there could be some other additional information or element that

0:29:42.120 --> 0:29:45.120
<v Speaker 1>you'd have to supply apart from just owning the card,

0:29:45.440 --> 0:29:48.040
<v Speaker 1>and that would make it a two factor authentication approach,

0:29:48.120 --> 0:29:52.760
<v Speaker 1>and that would make it a stronger secure system. Now,

0:29:54.400 --> 0:29:56.200
<v Speaker 1>there are a lot of tokens that are used in

0:29:56.200 --> 0:30:00.480
<v Speaker 1>two factor authentication, and one of the most common is

0:30:00.600 --> 0:30:03.360
<v Speaker 1>a device with a small led screen that displays a

0:30:03.360 --> 0:30:06.520
<v Speaker 1>string of seemingly random numbers when you activate it, and

0:30:06.560 --> 0:30:10.240
<v Speaker 1>those seemingly random numbers change when you activate it over time.

0:30:10.320 --> 0:30:12.840
<v Speaker 1>Let's say that you pull out this token in order

0:30:12.880 --> 0:30:15.600
<v Speaker 1>to access a system it's asking for this code. You

0:30:15.600 --> 0:30:18.000
<v Speaker 1>press a little button, the numbers light up, and you

0:30:18.040 --> 0:30:20.560
<v Speaker 1>type the numbers into the system and it gives you access.

0:30:21.200 --> 0:30:23.280
<v Speaker 1>And then the next day you want to access it again,

0:30:23.320 --> 0:30:25.520
<v Speaker 1>you pull up the token, you press a button, a

0:30:25.600 --> 0:30:28.160
<v Speaker 1>totally different set of numbers shows up, you type those

0:30:28.160 --> 0:30:30.400
<v Speaker 1>into the system, you get access to it. What the

0:30:30.440 --> 0:30:33.760
<v Speaker 1>heck is going on? How does that work? How does

0:30:33.920 --> 0:30:36.760
<v Speaker 1>how does the token magically know what numbers to create?

0:30:37.800 --> 0:30:41.120
<v Speaker 1>It's actually a pretty elegant system as it turns out.

0:30:41.320 --> 0:30:43.760
<v Speaker 1>I'll give an example of one way this can happen.

0:30:43.800 --> 0:30:46.120
<v Speaker 1>It's not the only way, but it's a pretty common one.

0:30:47.280 --> 0:30:49.360
<v Speaker 1>So in most of these devices, the token has a

0:30:49.400 --> 0:30:53.080
<v Speaker 1>low power clock which is synchronized to the system that

0:30:53.240 --> 0:30:56.120
<v Speaker 1>it is related to, and it also has a serial

0:30:56.200 --> 0:30:59.640
<v Speaker 1>number associated with the specific token. The token uses those

0:30:59.680 --> 0:31:04.000
<v Speaker 1>two values to generate what is called a pr NG value,

0:31:04.080 --> 0:31:08.800
<v Speaker 1>and pr NG stands for pseudo random number generator and

0:31:08.840 --> 0:31:11.000
<v Speaker 1>it means pretty much what sounds like. It can create

0:31:11.000 --> 0:31:13.720
<v Speaker 1>a string of numbers that appears to be random, though

0:31:13.800 --> 0:31:17.120
<v Speaker 1>ultimately those numbers are in fact determined by an ordered

0:31:17.240 --> 0:31:19.960
<v Speaker 1>series of calculations. But you have to know what those

0:31:20.000 --> 0:31:23.960
<v Speaker 1>calculations are and what the two different numbers were to

0:31:24.080 --> 0:31:28.840
<v Speaker 1>start off with in order to get the pseudorandom result.

0:31:29.800 --> 0:31:32.680
<v Speaker 1>So when you're typing in the string of numerals into

0:31:32.680 --> 0:31:36.640
<v Speaker 1>a system, the system runs the same pr NG operation

0:31:37.400 --> 0:31:40.200
<v Speaker 1>using the same time stamp and the serial number for

0:31:40.240 --> 0:31:43.680
<v Speaker 1>the token. Now, that obviously requires the system to quote unquote,

0:31:43.920 --> 0:31:47.520
<v Speaker 1>know what your token's serial number is, so you have

0:31:47.520 --> 0:31:51.480
<v Speaker 1>to have an official registered token, and if the system's

0:31:51.520 --> 0:31:54.560
<v Speaker 1>results match the one that you typed in, you're authenticated.

0:31:54.880 --> 0:31:58.680
<v Speaker 1>So typically these codes that you generate have a shelf

0:31:58.720 --> 0:32:00.600
<v Speaker 1>life of a certain amount of time. Let's say it's

0:32:00.640 --> 0:32:05.480
<v Speaker 1>thirty minutes. So you use the token, and it takes

0:32:05.560 --> 0:32:09.680
<v Speaker 1>the closest time at the thirty minute mark from when

0:32:09.720 --> 0:32:11.800
<v Speaker 1>you push the button. So you push the button at

0:32:11.840 --> 0:32:15.560
<v Speaker 1>two thirty five. It says two thirty, and it runs

0:32:15.600 --> 0:32:18.480
<v Speaker 1>the operation. It gives you some numbers. You type it

0:32:18.480 --> 0:32:21.760
<v Speaker 1>into the system. The system looks at its clock. It says, oh,

0:32:21.760 --> 0:32:24.680
<v Speaker 1>it's two thirty seven. Well, the closest half hour mark

0:32:24.760 --> 0:32:27.080
<v Speaker 1>was two thirty, so I'll use that to start off with.

0:32:27.440 --> 0:32:29.480
<v Speaker 1>I happen to know that the serial number for this

0:32:29.520 --> 0:32:32.440
<v Speaker 1>particular token is such and such. I'll use that to

0:32:32.680 --> 0:32:35.760
<v Speaker 1>perform the same number of operations, and it should create

0:32:35.880 --> 0:32:39.320
<v Speaker 1>the exact same result. If it doesn't create the same result,

0:32:39.640 --> 0:32:42.800
<v Speaker 1>it means that you've somehow spanned over that time limit

0:32:42.840 --> 0:32:44.880
<v Speaker 1>and you're going to have to generate a new code

0:32:44.920 --> 0:32:48.640
<v Speaker 1>and insert it again, or something has gone wrong, or

0:32:48.680 --> 0:32:50.880
<v Speaker 1>you're just trying to access the system that you don't

0:32:50.880 --> 0:32:52.840
<v Speaker 1>actually have a token for, which would be kind of

0:32:52.840 --> 0:32:55.840
<v Speaker 1>foolish because you'd have to be incredibly lucky to just

0:32:56.280 --> 0:32:58.880
<v Speaker 1>magically type in the right string of numbers in order

0:32:58.920 --> 0:33:03.440
<v Speaker 1>to get access. Another great area to explore is biometrics.

0:33:03.640 --> 0:33:06.720
<v Speaker 1>I love this field because, when implemented properly, it's pretty

0:33:06.760 --> 0:33:09.960
<v Speaker 1>difficult to replicate biometrics. That all has to do with

0:33:10.080 --> 0:33:13.400
<v Speaker 1>our physical attributes, right, It's tough for bad guys to

0:33:13.480 --> 0:33:16.200
<v Speaker 1>get into a system that happens to be based on

0:33:16.200 --> 0:33:20.440
<v Speaker 1>our physical traits. We did an episode called Biometrics Digital

0:33:20.520 --> 0:33:23.640
<v Speaker 1>Fingerprinting back in twenty fourteen. But let me give you

0:33:23.680 --> 0:33:27.160
<v Speaker 1>a quick rundown of the history of biometrics. First of all,

0:33:27.200 --> 0:33:30.800
<v Speaker 1>fingerprints have long been used as a means of identification.

0:33:31.000 --> 0:33:34.600
<v Speaker 1>Actually centuries before the practice was officially adopted by law enforcement.

0:33:35.600 --> 0:33:40.360
<v Speaker 1>On ancient business transactions, merchants and customers would sometimes use

0:33:40.360 --> 0:33:43.800
<v Speaker 1>fingerprint marks in clay tablets as a kind of signature.

0:33:43.800 --> 0:33:47.120
<v Speaker 1>It would identify the person who had purchased a good

0:33:47.400 --> 0:33:51.200
<v Speaker 1>from someone else. It wouldn't be until the late eighteen

0:33:51.280 --> 0:33:55.800
<v Speaker 1>hundreds the law enforcement jumped on the fingerprint bandwagon once

0:33:55.840 --> 0:33:58.400
<v Speaker 1>the establishment accepted the fact that no two sets of

0:33:58.400 --> 0:34:01.200
<v Speaker 1>fingerprints were alike, which was It's something that ancient people

0:34:01.240 --> 0:34:04.320
<v Speaker 1>had known for ever, but it just hadn't been accepted

0:34:04.320 --> 0:34:07.560
<v Speaker 1>as a scientific fact for a very long time. A

0:34:07.600 --> 0:34:13.200
<v Speaker 1>couple of people named Azizul Hawk and Edward Henry created

0:34:13.239 --> 0:34:16.600
<v Speaker 1>a system for indexing and classifying fingerprints for the purposes

0:34:16.640 --> 0:34:20.360
<v Speaker 1>of criminal investigation. Now. They based that partly on a

0:34:20.400 --> 0:34:23.560
<v Speaker 1>classification system that was developed by another man named Sir

0:34:23.640 --> 0:34:27.280
<v Speaker 1>Francis Galton, but that system was more for academic purposes

0:34:27.480 --> 0:34:32.440
<v Speaker 1>right to describe fingerprints, whereas Henry wanted a system that

0:34:32.480 --> 0:34:37.680
<v Speaker 1>could be used in investigations, legal investigations, criminal investigations. Mark

0:34:37.680 --> 0:34:40.000
<v Speaker 1>Twain actually wrote a story in the eighteen nineties in

0:34:40.040 --> 0:34:43.080
<v Speaker 1>which a character put on trial asks that his fingerprints

0:34:43.360 --> 0:34:45.319
<v Speaker 1>be compared to some left at the scene of a

0:34:45.360 --> 0:34:49.560
<v Speaker 1>crime in order to prove his innocence. In nineteen sixty three,

0:34:49.719 --> 0:34:54.640
<v Speaker 1>the Hughes Research Laboratory published a research paper about fingerprint automation.

0:34:55.600 --> 0:34:59.719
<v Speaker 1>The lab which is today known as HRL Laboratories, which

0:34:59.760 --> 0:35:02.520
<v Speaker 1>I guess makes it another repetitive term, because I'm assuming

0:35:02.680 --> 0:35:05.960
<v Speaker 1>HRL already stands for Hughes Research Laboratory, so the new

0:35:06.040 --> 0:35:09.839
<v Speaker 1>name could be interpreted as Hughes Research Laboratory Laboratory. So

0:35:10.080 --> 0:35:14.280
<v Speaker 1>stop bugging me about pen numbers, is what I'm saying. Anyway,

0:35:14.480 --> 0:35:16.799
<v Speaker 1>It used to be the research and development division of

0:35:16.920 --> 0:35:21.200
<v Speaker 1>Hughes Aircraft. Today it's owned by Boeing in General Motors.

0:35:21.200 --> 0:35:23.880
<v Speaker 1>But back in the nineteen sixties, the Lab published a

0:35:23.960 --> 0:35:29.000
<v Speaker 1>paper about automated fingerprint identification. It kind of acts as

0:35:29.000 --> 0:35:33.560
<v Speaker 1>the foundation for fingerprints scanning today. It's basically automating a

0:35:33.600 --> 0:35:36.239
<v Speaker 1>system that has been performed manually, which is where you

0:35:36.280 --> 0:35:40.400
<v Speaker 1>take two sets of fingerprints. You have your reference set

0:35:40.719 --> 0:35:43.719
<v Speaker 1>and you have your submitted set, and you want to

0:35:43.760 --> 0:35:47.719
<v Speaker 1>compare those together and look for points of similarity. And

0:35:47.800 --> 0:35:50.200
<v Speaker 1>if you have enough points of similarity, the likelihood of

0:35:50.239 --> 0:35:53.719
<v Speaker 1>the fingerprints belonging to someone else drops to near zero.

0:35:54.080 --> 0:35:56.360
<v Speaker 1>So it means someone who happens to have very similar

0:35:56.400 --> 0:36:00.680
<v Speaker 1>fingerprints to the person in question, the reference happened to

0:36:00.719 --> 0:36:03.160
<v Speaker 1>be in the same geographic region around the same time,

0:36:03.400 --> 0:36:06.759
<v Speaker 1>and if there are enough sufficient points of similarity, this

0:36:06.840 --> 0:36:12.760
<v Speaker 1>becomes increasingly unlikely. So while researchers worked on creating automated

0:36:12.760 --> 0:36:16.480
<v Speaker 1>systems for fingerprint identification, others were working on similar systems

0:36:16.520 --> 0:36:21.720
<v Speaker 1>for facial recognition and voice identification strategies. Essentially, any aspect

0:36:21.760 --> 0:36:24.640
<v Speaker 1>of a person that would be intrinsically unique to him

0:36:24.800 --> 0:36:28.400
<v Speaker 1>or her was considered an interesting value to quantify and

0:36:28.520 --> 0:36:33.839
<v Speaker 1>classify for good or for ill. In nineteen seventy four,

0:36:33.960 --> 0:36:38.359
<v Speaker 1>the first commercial hand geometry systems launched. Dylan, you ever

0:36:38.400 --> 0:36:40.920
<v Speaker 1>have to use a hand geometry system where it measures

0:36:40.920 --> 0:36:44.160
<v Speaker 1>your hand? Dylan shaking his head. No, I did. It

0:36:44.200 --> 0:36:46.759
<v Speaker 1>was a regular part of the University of Georgia when

0:36:46.800 --> 0:36:50.480
<v Speaker 1>I was there. So this is a scanner that looks

0:36:50.520 --> 0:36:53.680
<v Speaker 1>at the hand, the shape of a person's hand, and

0:36:53.760 --> 0:36:56.880
<v Speaker 1>compares it to a database and it authenticates the person

0:36:56.920 --> 0:36:59.759
<v Speaker 1>based on hand geometry. So you have to set up

0:37:00.040 --> 0:37:03.080
<v Speaker 1>your profile right you scan your hand for the first time,

0:37:03.719 --> 0:37:06.960
<v Speaker 1>and it associates your hand geometry with you the person.

0:37:07.480 --> 0:37:10.719
<v Speaker 1>Every time you scan your hand later on, it goes

0:37:10.760 --> 0:37:13.319
<v Speaker 1>in references that database and says, hey, does this match

0:37:13.360 --> 0:37:15.840
<v Speaker 1>with the hand that we measured that first time, And

0:37:15.840 --> 0:37:18.400
<v Speaker 1>if the answer was yes, it authenticated you. So my

0:37:18.520 --> 0:37:21.359
<v Speaker 1>university's food hall had one of these. If you wanted

0:37:21.360 --> 0:37:25.760
<v Speaker 1>to eat, you had to stick your hand in the machine.

0:37:26.040 --> 0:37:30.360
<v Speaker 1>Kind of got a little bit sort of Flash Gordon esque.

0:37:30.640 --> 0:37:32.320
<v Speaker 1>You know, you sit there wondering if you're going to

0:37:32.360 --> 0:37:34.760
<v Speaker 1>get your hand back after you put your hand in there.

0:37:34.880 --> 0:37:36.719
<v Speaker 1>But I mean if you want tater tots, you just

0:37:36.840 --> 0:37:39.359
<v Speaker 1>had to do it, or in my case, chili cheese fries,

0:37:39.400 --> 0:37:43.520
<v Speaker 1>which I ate way too frequently. I digress. In nineteen

0:37:43.560 --> 0:37:47.560
<v Speaker 1>seventy five, partially funded by the FBI, researchers began to

0:37:47.600 --> 0:37:52.080
<v Speaker 1>develop fingerprint scanners. Now. The first of those used capacitive detection,

0:37:52.480 --> 0:37:56.200
<v Speaker 1>which wasn't terribly precise in the nineteen seventies. Most smartphones

0:37:56.239 --> 0:38:01.040
<v Speaker 1>these days actually use this approach. Capacitive touch screens use that. Essentially,

0:38:01.080 --> 0:38:03.960
<v Speaker 1>touching the screen alters an electric field on the phone

0:38:04.400 --> 0:38:08.200
<v Speaker 1>because we conduct electricity. It's a very weak electric field,

0:38:08.440 --> 0:38:11.920
<v Speaker 1>but we conduct electricity. Touching a device that has an

0:38:11.920 --> 0:38:15.800
<v Speaker 1>electric field running across the surface disrupts that electric field,

0:38:16.280 --> 0:38:19.080
<v Speaker 1>and it actually allows a device to detect the presence

0:38:19.080 --> 0:38:22.120
<v Speaker 1>and orientation of a touch, so it knows the X

0:38:22.200 --> 0:38:24.840
<v Speaker 1>and y axis of where you are touching on a screen.

0:38:24.920 --> 0:38:27.919
<v Speaker 1>That's why if you wear non capacitive gloves while trying

0:38:27.920 --> 0:38:31.719
<v Speaker 1>to work an iPhone, nothing happens because it cannot hold

0:38:31.719 --> 0:38:36.040
<v Speaker 1>that capacitance. So the screen isn't a resistive touch screen.

0:38:36.120 --> 0:38:39.560
<v Speaker 1>It can't detect a touch unless that capacitance is there.

0:38:40.920 --> 0:38:45.759
<v Speaker 1>Our capacitive aspect is there. Rather not capacitants. Sorry about

0:38:45.760 --> 0:38:50.320
<v Speaker 1>that misspoke. Well, speaking of the iPhone, the touch ID

0:38:50.640 --> 0:38:53.400
<v Speaker 1>on the iPhone five S and later models actually uses

0:38:53.480 --> 0:38:57.840
<v Speaker 1>capacitive touch to authenticate a fingerprint, just like this system

0:38:57.880 --> 0:39:01.320
<v Speaker 1>did in nineteen seventy five, except the days it's way

0:39:01.360 --> 0:39:04.080
<v Speaker 1>more precise than the tech was capable of back in

0:39:04.120 --> 0:39:07.799
<v Speaker 1>the seventies, so it's much less likely to give a

0:39:08.000 --> 0:39:11.160
<v Speaker 1>either a false positive or to deny someone access to

0:39:11.200 --> 0:39:14.640
<v Speaker 1>their phone. It may require you to scan a second

0:39:14.640 --> 0:39:17.080
<v Speaker 1>time if you didn't get a good representation of your

0:39:17.080 --> 0:39:19.000
<v Speaker 1>fingerprint when you were trying to unlock the phone, but

0:39:19.000 --> 0:39:21.960
<v Speaker 1>it's not likely to deny you because it cannot identify

0:39:22.000 --> 0:39:28.240
<v Speaker 1>your fingerprint now. In nineteen eighty five, two doctors Aaron

0:39:28.320 --> 0:39:33.160
<v Speaker 1>Sefir and Leonard Flom proposed that irides could be unique

0:39:33.160 --> 0:39:35.160
<v Speaker 1>to a person. And you might say, well, what a

0:39:35.280 --> 0:39:38.520
<v Speaker 1>I rides? Well, iride is the plural for iris, so

0:39:38.760 --> 0:39:41.640
<v Speaker 1>we're talking about the pigmented membrane surrounding the pupil in

0:39:41.680 --> 0:39:45.800
<v Speaker 1>your eye. By nineteen eighty six, these two ophthalmologists received

0:39:45.800 --> 0:39:49.160
<v Speaker 1>a patent for their approach to use irides for authentication

0:39:49.280 --> 0:39:53.480
<v Speaker 1>and identification purposes. By nineteen ninety five, the first IRIS

0:39:53.520 --> 0:39:57.960
<v Speaker 1>identification security systems became part of the Defense Nuclear Agency.

0:39:58.600 --> 0:40:01.640
<v Speaker 1>So all those spy movies where you see someone leaning

0:40:01.640 --> 0:40:04.040
<v Speaker 1>forward and getting their eye scanned, that's a real thing.

0:40:04.760 --> 0:40:08.040
<v Speaker 1>Our irises or eye rides, i should say, are unique

0:40:08.120 --> 0:40:11.480
<v Speaker 1>to us, and so that is a pretty tricky thing

0:40:11.680 --> 0:40:15.480
<v Speaker 1>to replicate. You probably have seen at least one or

0:40:15.480 --> 0:40:19.040
<v Speaker 1>two movies where someone got hold of somebody's eyeball and

0:40:19.080 --> 0:40:22.160
<v Speaker 1>got access that way, or knocked a person out then

0:40:22.360 --> 0:40:24.719
<v Speaker 1>forced their eye open and held their head up to

0:40:24.760 --> 0:40:28.719
<v Speaker 1>the scanner, But in general not easy to replicate without

0:40:28.760 --> 0:40:33.720
<v Speaker 1>access to somebody who already is authorized to enter that area.

0:40:35.040 --> 0:40:38.040
<v Speaker 1>Over the next several years, advances in biometrics opened up

0:40:38.239 --> 0:40:42.200
<v Speaker 1>new opportunities, not just for authentication or security. So facial

0:40:42.239 --> 0:40:45.360
<v Speaker 1>recognition is a great example. It's been incorporated into dozens

0:40:45.360 --> 0:40:49.040
<v Speaker 1>of technologies, probably most notably into our cameras, including the

0:40:49.040 --> 0:40:52.600
<v Speaker 1>cameras and our smartphones. And sometimes it's a simple implementation

0:40:52.920 --> 0:40:55.400
<v Speaker 1>which just detects a face in order to focus properly

0:40:55.440 --> 0:40:58.640
<v Speaker 1>on a subject. Sometimes it's more complicated, so it might

0:40:58.800 --> 0:41:03.440
<v Speaker 1>allow for automatic tagging of images because it can recognize

0:41:03.440 --> 0:41:06.080
<v Speaker 1>people based on their facial features. You probably had some

0:41:06.160 --> 0:41:10.799
<v Speaker 1>experience with this in some capacity. Organizations also began to

0:41:10.880 --> 0:41:14.680
<v Speaker 1>form around this time to create standards for biometric implementations.

0:41:15.520 --> 0:41:18.280
<v Speaker 1>This would reduce the chance of competing technologies with varying

0:41:18.320 --> 0:41:21.680
<v Speaker 1>degrees of efficiency and accuracy from interfering with each other,

0:41:22.360 --> 0:41:24.919
<v Speaker 1>and by two thousand and three, the US government began

0:41:24.960 --> 0:41:30.719
<v Speaker 1>to formally coordinate biometric implementations. Meanwhile, the International Civil Aviation

0:41:30.960 --> 0:41:34.879
<v Speaker 1>Organization created a global standard to incorporate biometric data into

0:41:34.920 --> 0:41:39.160
<v Speaker 1>travel documentation like passports, and ten years later, in twenty thirteen,

0:41:39.280 --> 0:41:43.080
<v Speaker 1>you could find biometric solutions built directly into personal electronics

0:41:43.440 --> 0:41:46.560
<v Speaker 1>like laptops and smartphones. In fact, I had a fingerprint

0:41:46.600 --> 0:41:50.160
<v Speaker 1>scanner from before twenty thirteen where you just you would

0:41:50.360 --> 0:41:52.640
<v Speaker 1>actually have to slide your finger kind of like a

0:41:52.640 --> 0:41:56.480
<v Speaker 1>copier against the little panel and if your fingerprint matched,

0:41:56.520 --> 0:41:59.640
<v Speaker 1>it would unlock your computer for you. I actually had

0:41:59.640 --> 0:42:04.359
<v Speaker 1>that one. Hear at how stuff works, I miss it sometimes. Well,

0:42:04.360 --> 0:42:06.399
<v Speaker 1>I've got a lot more to say, but first let's

0:42:06.440 --> 0:42:19.439
<v Speaker 1>take another quick break to think our sponsor. All right,

0:42:20.160 --> 0:42:25.280
<v Speaker 1>things like fingerprint scanners are not foolproof. It is possible,

0:42:25.360 --> 0:42:29.240
<v Speaker 1>although challenging, to lift a person's fingerprint from something they've handled,

0:42:29.360 --> 0:42:32.160
<v Speaker 1>scan it and replicate it. A couple of different ways

0:42:32.200 --> 0:42:34.920
<v Speaker 1>to do this. Some of them require access to some

0:42:35.000 --> 0:42:37.760
<v Speaker 1>equipment and materials most of us don't have in our homes,

0:42:37.760 --> 0:42:40.080
<v Speaker 1>so it's not like it's practical for the average person.

0:42:40.360 --> 0:42:43.600
<v Speaker 1>But the point is, with the right determination and the

0:42:43.680 --> 0:42:47.719
<v Speaker 1>right know how, and specifically the right materials, you can

0:42:47.760 --> 0:42:51.080
<v Speaker 1>create a fake fingerprint. And you might use something like

0:42:51.160 --> 0:42:55.200
<v Speaker 1>latex or even wood glue, and you could lift a

0:42:55.239 --> 0:42:59.600
<v Speaker 1>fingerprint and use it to fool certain authentication systems. If

0:42:59.600 --> 0:43:03.239
<v Speaker 1>the system is just looking for a particular pattern on

0:43:03.320 --> 0:43:06.120
<v Speaker 1>a fingerprint, the copy could be good enough to fool

0:43:06.160 --> 0:43:09.360
<v Speaker 1>the system, particularly if you can overlay the copy on

0:43:09.440 --> 0:43:14.400
<v Speaker 1>top of your own finger This would provide the capacitive connections. So,

0:43:14.440 --> 0:43:16.920
<v Speaker 1>in other words, let's say I've got a latex fingerprint

0:43:17.200 --> 0:43:19.719
<v Speaker 1>and I need to access a phone. Well, if I

0:43:19.840 --> 0:43:24.120
<v Speaker 1>just lay the latex down against the capacitive screen, it's

0:43:24.160 --> 0:43:27.160
<v Speaker 1>not really gonna affect anything. If I put an actual

0:43:27.880 --> 0:43:31.319
<v Speaker 1>living tissue behind it, that's a different story. So how

0:43:31.360 --> 0:43:34.640
<v Speaker 1>do you defeat that sort of security vulnerability. Well, I

0:43:34.680 --> 0:43:37.400
<v Speaker 1>had the opportunity to speak with doctor P who's the

0:43:37.480 --> 0:43:40.840
<v Speaker 1>chief technology officer of goodex to talk about a fingerprint

0:43:40.920 --> 0:43:45.680
<v Speaker 1>scanner with an additional measure of security to counteract those

0:43:45.680 --> 0:43:49.719
<v Speaker 1>sort of spoofing attempts. Here's what we talked about, doctor p.

0:43:49.920 --> 0:43:56.280
<v Speaker 1>Let's start off by talking about how biometrics are transforming

0:43:56.920 --> 0:44:02.399
<v Speaker 1>security in the technology field, specifically for things like consumer tech,

0:44:02.480 --> 0:44:06.440
<v Speaker 1>because my listeners are very interested in that, the concept

0:44:06.440 --> 0:44:11.520
<v Speaker 1>of using biometrics to access various devices. I think probably

0:44:11.600 --> 0:44:14.880
<v Speaker 1>the example most of them would be familiar with it

0:44:14.880 --> 0:44:18.279
<v Speaker 1>would be smartphones. Uh, can you talk a little bit

0:44:18.280 --> 0:44:21.240
<v Speaker 1>about how that has developed over the last few years

0:44:21.480 --> 0:44:26.600
<v Speaker 1>and and why it is such a compelling component for security.

0:44:27.480 --> 0:44:30.960
<v Speaker 2>Well, I think one of the story I actually met,

0:44:31.360 --> 0:44:34.239
<v Speaker 2>which is a part of my experience too, is some

0:44:34.480 --> 0:44:37.920
<v Speaker 2>is out really well is the since the more and

0:44:37.960 --> 0:44:42.919
<v Speaker 2>more phone has a fingerprint, Uh thanks, more and more

0:44:42.920 --> 0:44:47.600
<v Speaker 2>people using it? Is one guy and Agen say, totally

0:44:47.600 --> 0:44:51.160
<v Speaker 2>forgot the past code. Now he's using fingerprints on the

0:44:51.200 --> 0:44:54.000
<v Speaker 2>phone all the time, and one on my phone. I

0:44:54.040 --> 0:44:57.400
<v Speaker 2>don't use offering also I forgot the past code as well,

0:44:57.920 --> 0:45:01.840
<v Speaker 2>So it is a kind of Chelsea. The consumer behavior

0:45:02.000 --> 0:45:07.360
<v Speaker 2>has changed so much. Yeah, they used to obviously everyone

0:45:07.480 --> 0:45:12.759
<v Speaker 2>have a pass code and Uh, nowadays they do, but

0:45:12.880 --> 0:45:16.600
<v Speaker 2>they didn't use it anymore. They think of present. That

0:45:17.400 --> 0:45:24.239
<v Speaker 2>is certainly take over majority of the authentication meant And

0:45:24.280 --> 0:45:28.080
<v Speaker 2>then the other thing was the in the case of

0:45:28.239 --> 0:45:31.440
<v Speaker 2>like in China market where a lot of mobile payment. Now,

0:45:32.640 --> 0:45:37.200
<v Speaker 2>if you were in China you could literally live without

0:45:37.680 --> 0:45:40.760
<v Speaker 2>it's like a critical you can live without a catch.

0:45:41.480 --> 0:45:45.640
<v Speaker 2>But in China you can live without critic and the

0:45:45.680 --> 0:45:50.600
<v Speaker 2>catch you can use your phone and mobile payment literally

0:45:50.680 --> 0:45:55.960
<v Speaker 2>do everything from convenience store to buying ticket to hotel

0:45:56.040 --> 0:46:01.480
<v Speaker 2>payment everything. It's quite a but all that is obviously

0:46:02.320 --> 0:46:06.640
<v Speaker 2>going through thinkation.

0:46:06.920 --> 0:46:11.560
<v Speaker 1>Right, and so the authentication part is obviously really important.

0:46:11.560 --> 0:46:14.799
<v Speaker 1>You want to make certain that the person who is

0:46:14.960 --> 0:46:18.640
<v Speaker 1>utilizing a device, particularly one that can be used as

0:46:19.120 --> 0:46:22.399
<v Speaker 1>a means of commerce, a means of purchase. You want

0:46:22.440 --> 0:46:26.480
<v Speaker 1>to make sure that the identity of the person holding

0:46:26.480 --> 0:46:29.279
<v Speaker 1>the phone is in fact the person authorized to use

0:46:29.320 --> 0:46:31.960
<v Speaker 1>that device for that purpose. And that kind of comes

0:46:32.000 --> 0:46:37.080
<v Speaker 1>in with the sensors that you've been working on in

0:46:37.120 --> 0:46:41.160
<v Speaker 1>the recent past, where it's not just looking for the

0:46:41.200 --> 0:46:44.719
<v Speaker 1>pattern of a fingerprint, which, as some people have pointed out,

0:46:45.000 --> 0:46:49.680
<v Speaker 1>is something that is possible to spoof if you go

0:46:49.920 --> 0:46:52.759
<v Speaker 1>and you have the right scanners and you have the

0:46:52.840 --> 0:46:55.680
<v Speaker 1>right you know, even three D printer technology, you could

0:46:55.760 --> 0:47:01.440
<v Speaker 1>potentially create a fake fingerprint and access US sensors that

0:47:01.600 --> 0:47:07.759
<v Speaker 1>are only capable of detecting the fingerprint layout. You are

0:47:07.840 --> 0:47:10.520
<v Speaker 1>working on technology that goes a step further than that.

0:47:10.600 --> 0:47:12.080
<v Speaker 1>Can you talk about that a little bit?

0:47:14.040 --> 0:47:18.920
<v Speaker 2>Yes, this is the one new technology we recently released

0:47:18.920 --> 0:47:23.640
<v Speaker 2>to the market. Is you at the same time when

0:47:23.680 --> 0:47:28.400
<v Speaker 2>you scan, recording or setting it in the fingerprint pattern,

0:47:28.960 --> 0:47:35.279
<v Speaker 2>you're also detecting the dynamic bluff flow in your fingerchap.

0:47:35.960 --> 0:47:40.680
<v Speaker 2>So that enable the sensor tells this fingerprint pattern it's

0:47:40.800 --> 0:47:48.200
<v Speaker 2>from a life person versus a mackup spoof. So that

0:47:48.760 --> 0:47:54.640
<v Speaker 2>further you enhanced the security level of the fingerprint authentication,

0:47:54.880 --> 0:47:58.200
<v Speaker 2>right because the most of the spoof method we know

0:47:59.080 --> 0:48:04.359
<v Speaker 2>obviously is UH, it's not by life object. So this

0:48:04.800 --> 0:48:11.680
<v Speaker 2>basically enables the security level one level up from UH.

0:48:12.000 --> 0:48:15.600
<v Speaker 2>So I think it will block the most, if not all,

0:48:15.719 --> 0:48:17.479
<v Speaker 2>the potential spoof master.

0:48:18.080 --> 0:48:20.719
<v Speaker 1>Right, So, people who would be you know, people who

0:48:20.719 --> 0:48:24.600
<v Speaker 1>would normally rely on something like a fake fingerprint made

0:48:24.680 --> 0:48:28.359
<v Speaker 1>from say silicone or rubber, that wouldn't work on this

0:48:28.480 --> 0:48:31.680
<v Speaker 1>particular type of device or this particular sensor, I should

0:48:31.719 --> 0:48:35.560
<v Speaker 1>say that will be incorporated into other devices, whether it's

0:48:35.600 --> 0:48:39.120
<v Speaker 1>a phone or a secure entry point or whatever it

0:48:39.160 --> 0:48:42.680
<v Speaker 1>may be, because it will lack that blood flow, and

0:48:42.719 --> 0:48:46.440
<v Speaker 1>without the blood flow, the device quote unquote knows it

0:48:46.560 --> 0:48:49.880
<v Speaker 1>is not a valid authentication. Am I getting that correct?

0:48:50.560 --> 0:48:50.960
<v Speaker 2>Correct?

0:48:50.960 --> 0:48:54.759
<v Speaker 1>Correct? You're absolutely crackt wonderful. So let's talk a little

0:48:54.760 --> 0:48:58.160
<v Speaker 1>bit about how this how this sensor actually does detect

0:48:58.239 --> 0:49:01.359
<v Speaker 1>that blood flow. What are you using, uh in order

0:49:01.480 --> 0:49:05.600
<v Speaker 1>for the technology to to quote unquote know that blood

0:49:05.640 --> 0:49:08.120
<v Speaker 1>is flowing behind that fingerprint.

0:49:10.000 --> 0:49:15.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so what we I think we're using this technology, uh,

0:49:15.680 --> 0:49:20.840
<v Speaker 2>integrating the obstacle sensor in the same area as a

0:49:21.440 --> 0:49:26.719
<v Speaker 2>fingerprin sensor and so, and we also put in a

0:49:26.760 --> 0:49:33.320
<v Speaker 2>small led emitter emitting an infrared light through the center

0:49:33.480 --> 0:49:38.759
<v Speaker 2>glass cover, so that sending the light into your finger tip,

0:49:39.560 --> 0:49:43.279
<v Speaker 2>and then the optical censor detect the scatter light of

0:49:43.280 --> 0:49:47.600
<v Speaker 2>your fingertip, so the blood flow itself will change in

0:49:47.719 --> 0:49:50.960
<v Speaker 2>the scatter light the intensity. So this is a very

0:49:51.000 --> 0:49:55.640
<v Speaker 2>common technique to use, like in the hospital, the oxidometer

0:49:56.400 --> 0:49:58.520
<v Speaker 2>we use all the time. You know, if you're in

0:49:58.560 --> 0:50:02.000
<v Speaker 2>the hospital bed, just put on your fingertips. It's the

0:50:02.040 --> 0:50:06.279
<v Speaker 2>same principle, except that in this case we just used

0:50:06.320 --> 0:50:10.200
<v Speaker 2>it to detact to the blood blow instead of uh,

0:50:10.719 --> 0:50:12.600
<v Speaker 2>attacking the oxygen them.

0:50:13.239 --> 0:50:15.200
<v Speaker 1>Right. So in some ways you could even argue this

0:50:15.239 --> 0:50:18.200
<v Speaker 1>is this is a a a simpler use of a

0:50:18.239 --> 0:50:22.080
<v Speaker 1>technology that's been put to use specifically for those monitoring

0:50:22.120 --> 0:50:25.839
<v Speaker 1>devices and hospitals where you know you need to have

0:50:26.000 --> 0:50:29.520
<v Speaker 1>more specific information. It's not like your smartphone necessarily is

0:50:29.560 --> 0:50:31.600
<v Speaker 1>going to tell you what the oxygen levels are in

0:50:31.640 --> 0:50:35.160
<v Speaker 1>your blood, although I guess you could technically develop sensors

0:50:35.200 --> 0:50:35.840
<v Speaker 1>that could do that.

0:50:38.080 --> 0:50:42.680
<v Speaker 2>You're right about. On the other hand, obviously, is fontify everything.

0:50:42.840 --> 0:50:47.120
<v Speaker 2>I got one level up? Right, you also need a

0:50:47.160 --> 0:50:51.759
<v Speaker 2>longer time, you mean's not a something average you that

0:50:51.800 --> 0:50:56.759
<v Speaker 2>we're winning to wait right. By way, we do providing

0:50:56.800 --> 0:51:02.160
<v Speaker 2>a simple way to also provide the heartbeat, the heart rate.

0:51:03.200 --> 0:51:09.120
<v Speaker 2>There's the censor, so user could u fingerative on the center, well,

0:51:10.520 --> 0:51:13.560
<v Speaker 2>I will report a heart rate. This is a kind

0:51:13.560 --> 0:51:15.160
<v Speaker 2>of side benefit of the.

0:51:15.280 --> 0:51:19.560
<v Speaker 1>Technology, right, and so one potential application for being able

0:51:19.600 --> 0:51:24.040
<v Speaker 1>to detect heart rate. Uh. Obviously you have medical applications,

0:51:24.040 --> 0:51:28.000
<v Speaker 1>but you also have applications within the health and fitness sector.

0:51:28.160 --> 0:51:32.000
<v Speaker 1>Where people might be using their smartphone while out on

0:51:32.120 --> 0:51:33.840
<v Speaker 1>say a jog, and they want to make sure that

0:51:33.880 --> 0:51:36.800
<v Speaker 1>they're keeping their heart rate within a specific target zone.

0:51:37.320 --> 0:51:39.359
<v Speaker 1>That could be something that you would use that sort

0:51:39.400 --> 0:51:44.799
<v Speaker 1>of sensor technology for beyond its authentication capabilities. So it's

0:51:44.920 --> 0:51:48.839
<v Speaker 1>really interesting to me that we're looking at a technology

0:51:48.920 --> 0:51:51.279
<v Speaker 1>that for a long time people thought of as sort

0:51:51.320 --> 0:51:53.919
<v Speaker 1>of science fiction. You know, you saw you would see

0:51:53.920 --> 0:51:57.040
<v Speaker 1>in movies that someone would put their finger down and

0:51:57.080 --> 0:51:59.600
<v Speaker 1>get a scan and that would give them access to stuff.

0:51:59.640 --> 0:52:04.560
<v Speaker 1>And now we're realizing that's convenient because you unless something

0:52:04.640 --> 0:52:06.920
<v Speaker 1>terrible has happened, you always have your finger with you.

0:52:07.360 --> 0:52:12.120
<v Speaker 1>But but as as we've discussed, it's it's not fool

0:52:12.160 --> 0:52:17.359
<v Speaker 1>proof unless you have this second dairy layer of protection, uh,

0:52:17.400 --> 0:52:21.719
<v Speaker 1>in this case, that detection of blood flow. So what

0:52:21.800 --> 0:52:25.120
<v Speaker 1>sort of devices might we see this incorporated into. I

0:52:25.120 --> 0:52:28.359
<v Speaker 1>mean again, smartphones are are an obvious example. Are there

0:52:28.400 --> 0:52:32.400
<v Speaker 1>others that, uh that you either have your eye on

0:52:32.680 --> 0:52:34.800
<v Speaker 1>or you could see as being a potential in the future.

0:52:35.200 --> 0:52:40.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the other uh, we not looking beyond the mobile device,

0:52:41.000 --> 0:52:45.240
<v Speaker 2>and then you're looking at the maybe say the same

0:52:45.440 --> 0:52:52.359
<v Speaker 2>but for example if using code, but at the same time,

0:52:53.160 --> 0:53:01.000
<v Speaker 2>you could have even in the code friend scanner, right,

0:53:01.520 --> 0:53:05.160
<v Speaker 2>and so not only you use the code, you also

0:53:05.280 --> 0:53:08.440
<v Speaker 2>on top of that you can use the fingerprints out

0:53:08.520 --> 0:53:12.080
<v Speaker 2>the owner. So that will add uh, you know, extra

0:53:12.200 --> 0:53:17.920
<v Speaker 2>layer of security and your your doors. So many times

0:53:17.920 --> 0:53:22.040
<v Speaker 2>people you know now they're wireless, they control door become

0:53:22.360 --> 0:53:27.200
<v Speaker 2>more and more popular and you may enable a scanner

0:53:27.400 --> 0:53:30.799
<v Speaker 2>for people to do that. There's a lot of us

0:53:31.080 --> 0:53:34.279
<v Speaker 2>like the car, right they are the most is the

0:53:34.360 --> 0:53:37.920
<v Speaker 2>same way people steal your key today can just drive

0:53:37.960 --> 0:53:42.000
<v Speaker 2>away with your car. But if you have a fingerprints

0:53:42.000 --> 0:53:45.040
<v Speaker 2>scanner in the car or on the key, that will

0:53:45.600 --> 0:53:49.799
<v Speaker 2>obviously protect your car better. You can buck you can

0:53:49.840 --> 0:53:52.680
<v Speaker 2>lose your key, but the people still can of drive

0:53:52.719 --> 0:53:56.560
<v Speaker 2>away with your car. Right, So there's a thic way

0:53:56.600 --> 0:53:59.839
<v Speaker 2>of using it. The one benefit of the mobile app

0:54:01.840 --> 0:54:05.160
<v Speaker 2>is really driving their costs and the size and the

0:54:05.280 --> 0:54:11.120
<v Speaker 2>power way done. Imagine it's a bidding devisorshipping every year,

0:54:11.280 --> 0:54:16.000
<v Speaker 2>so they scale the economy make it cost coming down

0:54:16.080 --> 0:54:19.759
<v Speaker 2>so much, so you enable all those other applications.

0:54:20.440 --> 0:54:23.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you hit upon something really interesting there because we've

0:54:23.200 --> 0:54:27.840
<v Speaker 1>seen that we've seen the smartphone and cell phone technologies

0:54:28.320 --> 0:54:31.839
<v Speaker 1>drive a lot of development in what you might think

0:54:31.960 --> 0:54:36.880
<v Speaker 1>initially are unrelated technology simply because, as you say, the

0:54:36.960 --> 0:54:41.920
<v Speaker 1>economies of scale provide this this economic imperative. It's not

0:54:41.960 --> 0:54:47.560
<v Speaker 1>even anive incentive. It's an imperative to develop a smaller,

0:54:47.880 --> 0:54:53.480
<v Speaker 1>more efficient, more economic sensors and other technologies. So, for example,

0:54:54.000 --> 0:54:57.560
<v Speaker 1>beyond this fingerprint sensing technology that could be used in

0:54:57.680 --> 0:55:01.560
<v Speaker 1>multiple applications, a lot of the development we've seen in

0:55:01.719 --> 0:55:07.200
<v Speaker 1>the virtual reality space, in just gaming in general, and

0:55:07.280 --> 0:55:11.480
<v Speaker 1>a lot of technologies. The reason why it's possible is

0:55:11.520 --> 0:55:16.360
<v Speaker 1>because the smartphone has acted as a platform that people

0:55:16.400 --> 0:55:19.960
<v Speaker 1>have been developing for for years to increase the number

0:55:19.960 --> 0:55:24.439
<v Speaker 1>of features, increase its security, increase its applicability for lots

0:55:24.480 --> 0:55:29.279
<v Speaker 1>of different possible uses, and we end up seeing that

0:55:29.520 --> 0:55:35.000
<v Speaker 1>spill over into seemingly unrelated uses. And I think that's

0:55:35.000 --> 0:55:40.520
<v Speaker 1>a great story in general, just that it illustrates that

0:55:40.960 --> 0:55:45.279
<v Speaker 1>work in one particular platform benefits in ways that you

0:55:45.320 --> 0:55:50.160
<v Speaker 1>can't necessarily anticipate from the beginning, and certainly when it

0:55:50.200 --> 0:55:53.840
<v Speaker 1>comes to things like authentication and security, you want to

0:55:53.840 --> 0:55:58.640
<v Speaker 1>see those benefits being applied to a broader spectrum of

0:55:58.840 --> 0:56:02.080
<v Speaker 1>uses because we're we're getting to a world in fact

0:56:02.080 --> 0:56:04.759
<v Speaker 1>we're already there. We're in a world where more and

0:56:04.800 --> 0:56:09.640
<v Speaker 1>more of our devices are interconnected in ways where if

0:56:09.719 --> 0:56:13.080
<v Speaker 1>you are able to get unauthorized access to them, you

0:56:13.120 --> 0:56:16.520
<v Speaker 1>could potentially cause a great deal of mischief and harm.

0:56:17.560 --> 0:56:20.279
<v Speaker 1>So where do you see the future going? If you

0:56:20.320 --> 0:56:23.759
<v Speaker 1>had to put on your prognosticator hat, what do you

0:56:23.760 --> 0:56:27.920
<v Speaker 1>think the next big step in authentication is going to be?

0:56:28.920 --> 0:56:32.480
<v Speaker 2>Well, there is already happening the iris scan on the

0:56:32.480 --> 0:56:39.960
<v Speaker 2>phone right, that is also inment, and I think it

0:56:40.000 --> 0:56:46.120
<v Speaker 2>will become more gold popular, and the next level of

0:56:46.120 --> 0:56:49.280
<v Speaker 2>people already talking is a fingerprint scan and will get

0:56:49.280 --> 0:56:54.960
<v Speaker 2>in into the display area. As I think rumor is

0:56:55.000 --> 0:56:59.520
<v Speaker 2>the UIFO may have its function. And then I think

0:56:59.680 --> 0:57:03.200
<v Speaker 2>going beyond you're going to see more and more maybe

0:57:03.440 --> 0:57:08.200
<v Speaker 2>medical related because the mobile device is so powerful and

0:57:08.719 --> 0:57:11.920
<v Speaker 2>with us all the time. It can't really use that

0:57:13.120 --> 0:57:19.400
<v Speaker 2>platform for monitoring your house, right because it's with you

0:57:19.520 --> 0:57:21.960
<v Speaker 2>all the time. So we see a lot of those

0:57:24.760 --> 0:57:30.760
<v Speaker 2>were happening, and so I think I think that is ah,

0:57:32.240 --> 0:57:34.960
<v Speaker 2>that's a kind of next few years. We're going to

0:57:35.040 --> 0:57:36.960
<v Speaker 2>see more and more of those things coming.

0:57:36.720 --> 0:57:41.640
<v Speaker 1>To the interesting. Well, sir, thank you so much for

0:57:41.840 --> 0:57:45.440
<v Speaker 1>joining our show and answering my questions. This has been

0:57:45.640 --> 0:57:49.560
<v Speaker 1>a fascinating conversation, and I know that my listeners are

0:57:49.600 --> 0:57:55.080
<v Speaker 1>always really interested to learn not just about how technology works,

0:57:55.120 --> 0:57:57.960
<v Speaker 1>but but why those applications are so important. I think

0:57:58.000 --> 0:58:00.440
<v Speaker 1>I think you've done a great job at doing that.

0:58:00.480 --> 0:58:03.400
<v Speaker 1>So thank you very much for joining me today my pressure.

0:58:03.520 --> 0:58:03.840
<v Speaker 2>Thank you.

0:58:04.760 --> 0:58:07.240
<v Speaker 1>As for the future, what if you could authenticate your

0:58:07.240 --> 0:58:12.160
<v Speaker 1>identity just through thinking? Researchers over at Binghampton University developed

0:58:12.160 --> 0:58:14.680
<v Speaker 1>a process in which they could identify or at least

0:58:14.680 --> 0:58:17.560
<v Speaker 1>they claim they can identify a person based on their

0:58:17.560 --> 0:58:20.720
<v Speaker 1>brain wave activity alone. So here's what they did. They

0:58:20.760 --> 0:58:23.120
<v Speaker 1>took a sample of fifty people. It's not a big

0:58:23.160 --> 0:58:27.080
<v Speaker 1>sample size, but it's interesting. Fifty people, fitted each person

0:58:27.240 --> 0:58:31.760
<v Speaker 1>with an electro encephalogram or EEG headset. Then they showed

0:58:31.800 --> 0:58:35.280
<v Speaker 1>each person a series of five hundred images, and those

0:58:35.320 --> 0:58:40.640
<v Speaker 1>images prompted various emotional and cognitive responses. Now those responses

0:58:41.120 --> 0:58:45.640
<v Speaker 1>are unique to each individual. So let's say that you

0:58:45.680 --> 0:58:47.880
<v Speaker 1>and I are looking at the same photo, and just

0:58:47.920 --> 0:58:51.440
<v Speaker 1>for argument's sake, it's a picture of my adorable dog, TIBLT,

0:58:51.920 --> 0:58:53.680
<v Speaker 1>and both of us just think he's accused of little

0:58:53.680 --> 0:58:57.080
<v Speaker 1>dog in the world because he is. I mean, come on, well,

0:58:57.120 --> 0:59:01.400
<v Speaker 1>the way your brain manifests that and the way my

0:59:01.640 --> 0:59:05.280
<v Speaker 1>brain manifests that information, even if we both feel the

0:59:05.320 --> 0:59:10.520
<v Speaker 1>same way, is going to be different. So theoretically, once

0:59:10.560 --> 0:59:16.200
<v Speaker 1>you record responses from people, these brain responses to these images,

0:59:16.600 --> 0:59:20.080
<v Speaker 1>and assign each of those responses to the respective identity,

0:59:20.560 --> 0:59:23.240
<v Speaker 1>you can authenticate a person's identity just by showing him

0:59:23.320 --> 0:59:26.120
<v Speaker 1>or her the same series of images and looking for matches.

0:59:26.880 --> 0:59:29.560
<v Speaker 1>If there's no match, then the person you're looking at

0:59:29.880 --> 0:59:33.040
<v Speaker 1>isn't who you think they are, and they're likely a

0:59:33.080 --> 0:59:37.320
<v Speaker 1>pod person. Maybe I should add that no one I

0:59:37.360 --> 0:59:40.320
<v Speaker 1>know of is actually talking about using brain waves for

0:59:40.400 --> 0:59:45.240
<v Speaker 1>authentication just yet. The study said that the researchers had

0:59:45.240 --> 0:59:48.800
<v Speaker 1>a one hundred percent success rate identifying subjects based on

0:59:48.840 --> 0:59:51.440
<v Speaker 1>brain waves, and it came out in twenty sixteen. So,

0:59:51.480 --> 0:59:54.040
<v Speaker 1>in other words, they put these fifty people through the

0:59:54.080 --> 0:59:58.400
<v Speaker 1>test of recording all of these responses. Then I assume

0:59:58.640 --> 1:00:03.280
<v Speaker 1>they used a blind mesas where somebody would end up

1:00:03.360 --> 1:00:07.320
<v Speaker 1>looking at the responses that were coming in from an

1:00:07.400 --> 1:00:10.360
<v Speaker 1>unknown subject and they would be able to match that

1:00:10.720 --> 1:00:13.640
<v Speaker 1>person's responses to one that was already in the database,

1:00:13.680 --> 1:00:17.480
<v Speaker 1>thus saying, oh, that's Jill. Because when Jilsey is a

1:00:17.480 --> 1:00:22.120
<v Speaker 1>picture of Timbalt, her heart grows three sizes that day.

1:00:23.280 --> 1:00:26.760
<v Speaker 1>We've got to stop showing those pictures. She's having heart

1:00:26.800 --> 1:00:31.440
<v Speaker 1>travel trouble. It's terrible. Tipple's just so cute. Anyway, I

1:00:31.440 --> 1:00:35.120
<v Speaker 1>should add that. Also, if you wanted to use this

1:00:35.160 --> 1:00:38.840
<v Speaker 1>as an authentication strategy, it would be pretty tricky because

1:00:38.960 --> 1:00:41.720
<v Speaker 1>it requires an EEG headset. It's not exactly the most

1:00:41.760 --> 1:00:45.840
<v Speaker 1>convenient authentication technology around now. If we ever develop a

1:00:45.920 --> 1:00:50.320
<v Speaker 1>less cumbersome method for measuring measuring brainwave activity with precision,

1:00:50.560 --> 1:00:54.760
<v Speaker 1>that's important, that could become an authentication technology of the future.

1:00:55.080 --> 1:00:57.840
<v Speaker 1>It's literally the way you think, and that would be

1:00:58.040 --> 1:01:02.400
<v Speaker 1>much much more difficult, if not possible, to replicate unless

1:01:02.440 --> 1:01:04.680
<v Speaker 1>you had some sort of recording of a person's brain

1:01:04.720 --> 1:01:08.040
<v Speaker 1>waves and you could somehow, you know, push those out

1:01:08.320 --> 1:01:11.720
<v Speaker 1>to cover up your own brainwave activity. I think I

1:01:11.760 --> 1:01:15.200
<v Speaker 1>might have just written a science fiction novel accidentally. I

1:01:15.240 --> 1:01:19.120
<v Speaker 1>hope you all enjoyed that classic episode Authentication Tech and

1:01:19.400 --> 1:01:23.360
<v Speaker 1>you from February twenty second, twenty seventeen, and I hope

1:01:23.400 --> 1:01:26.160
<v Speaker 1>you are all well, and I'll talk to you again

1:01:26.720 --> 1:01:36.720
<v Speaker 1>really soon. Tech Stuff is an iHeartRadio production. For more

1:01:36.800 --> 1:01:41.520
<v Speaker 1>podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

1:01:41.560 --> 1:01:47.280
<v Speaker 1>wherever you listen to your favorite shows.