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Speaker 1: Well, how do everyone.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to another episode of I Saw What You Did.

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Speaker 2: My name is Milly, I'm Danielle, and we're back to

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Speaker 2: talk about the cinema.

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Speaker 1: How are you. I'm all right, I mean, I'm just

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Speaker 1: I'm such a tender lady.

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Speaker 3: Lately I watch I finally started watching the Friend Levovitch

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Speaker 3: documentary on Netflix, the pretend it's the City one that

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Speaker 3: she's She's in conversation with Martin Scorsese and it's so

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Speaker 3: I mean, I'm in touch with my emotions enough to

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Speaker 3: know why I'm doing this, But as soon as they

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Speaker 3: showed New York, I burst into tears.

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Speaker 1: Well, dug, because you love me?

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Speaker 3: Or I keep doing this though, where I'm just like,

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Speaker 3: I'm fine, and.

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Speaker 1: It's never come on so quickly as it has in

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Speaker 1: the last year. Well, I gotta tell you, New York

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Speaker 1: is easy to love. That's what. That's my perception of it.

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Speaker 2: Like people who love New York really love it, and

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Speaker 2: it even somebody who has never lived there like me.

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Speaker 2: I mean, New York seems so iconic and amazing. So

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Speaker 2: when it's good, it's really good.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's really good.

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Speaker 3: And it's like this year has been so hard and

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Speaker 3: I do miss my family, but I miss my friend

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Speaker 3: so much.

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Speaker 1: And it's you know, at this.

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Speaker 3: Point, usually I would say I go back to New

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Speaker 3: York like five or six times a year. I try

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Speaker 3: to find a way, and to not have been there

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Speaker 3: at all for a year has just been like really

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Speaker 3: tugging at me. So just to see someone who is

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Speaker 3: so and it's just such a great series.

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Speaker 1: It's a great documentary.

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Speaker 3: It's like, she is so funny, and she is so

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Speaker 3: she says things in real life that I've also said

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Speaker 3: on this podcast, and I'm like, yes, we are kindred

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Speaker 3: asshole spirits.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I was gonna say she's a classic grump, which I

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Speaker 2: have a lot to say about in this episode, as.

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Speaker 1: Will be revealed shortly.

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Speaker 2: But I also love that she I mean, what a

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Speaker 2: case for having a signature.

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Speaker 1: Look completely And that is where I mean.

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Speaker 3: I think we talked about this a couple of weeks ago,

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Speaker 3: where I've worn stuff for so long that it's just

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Speaker 3: come back into style. But what she's doing is a

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Speaker 3: little bit different, which is like, this is it. This

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Speaker 3: is how I want to look forever, and I actually

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Speaker 3: don't care if it's in style or not.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's gonna weather the storm.

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Speaker 3: Yes, and I like it, Like, just change a boot,

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Speaker 3: just change a boot to a shoe, And that's the

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Speaker 3: only change. Through the decades, it's always the button down,

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Speaker 3: the jeans, the overcoat, hair parted in the middle. Maybe

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Speaker 3: I'll wear a cowboy boot today, maybe I'll wear a loafer.

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Speaker 3: But that's it. That's the only changeer getting well.

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Speaker 1: But also I.

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Speaker 2: Feel like the structure of her look is not completely ostentatious.

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Speaker 1: Like, you know, if I was the person that like.

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Speaker 2: Came onto this scene and was immediately wearing like low

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Speaker 2: rise denim jeans with patchwork and you know, like that

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Speaker 2: look that we were talking about in the couple episodes

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Speaker 2: before about the early yeah Tatum looks Now, if that

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Speaker 2: was my signature look, like if I just came into

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Speaker 2: existence having that look and thought I should keep this

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Speaker 2: look forever, it will be iconic one day, I would

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Speaker 2: probably reconsider completely. But her look is so like it's

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Speaker 2: just almost kind of basic, but it's timeless.

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Speaker 4: So it's like it'll work for her forever, you know, completely,

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Speaker 4: it's really it's just admirable, and I really, you know,

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Speaker 4: I was thinking about how we didn't discuss it, but

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Speaker 4: she was the judge in Wolf of Wall Street, and

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Speaker 4: I was just really thinking about she didn't.

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Speaker 1: I'm so dumb. I didn't even realize that.

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Speaker 3: Wow, it's like a two minute see it's so funny.

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Speaker 3: But it made me think about her friendship with Martin

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Speaker 3: Scorsese and he laughs so much when she talks, and

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Speaker 3: it's just really joyful to see friends who have been

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Speaker 3: friends for a while still be able to bring that

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Speaker 3: level of joy and humor out of each other. And

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Speaker 3: she's just she is so funny and so perfectly New

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Speaker 3: York and it's just every shot made me miss the

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Speaker 3: city so much.

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Speaker 2: You know, I was a huge interview magazine person when

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Speaker 2: I was a teenager, likeately.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but you read an interview and that's you were

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Speaker 1: cool as hell. No, I wasn't.

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Speaker 2: What it was literally like me being like I need

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Speaker 2: guidance on how to be like a normal person because

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Speaker 2: I will devolve if I don't. But I do adore

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Speaker 2: the idea of you missing New York because of friendly Boitce,

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Speaker 2: like I just I do because I do.

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Speaker 1: I also miss that personality.

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Speaker 3: I'm it's that kind of energy, Like I just genuinely

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Speaker 3: do miss everything about that city.

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Speaker 1: So was the documentary like it was good?

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Speaker 2: I mean it was like really, I mean I think

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Speaker 2: people I know that have watched it say that that

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Speaker 2: it's great and they love her.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, it's like six or seven episodes that I've

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Speaker 3: only watched the first two, but it made me last hard. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's episode by episode on Netflix and it just it

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Speaker 3: really it's good because it's not that prescriptive like let

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Speaker 3: me sit down and.

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Speaker 1: Interview this ground of New York.

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Speaker 3: It's just like two friends kind of chatting about things

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Speaker 3: that are interesting to them. But she really does have

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Speaker 3: this kind of unabashed like it's like a very pure

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Speaker 3: sense of herself. So she doesn't hold back, and I

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Speaker 3: kind of I love watching people like that talk.

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Speaker 2: I also love people too, because this is something that

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Speaker 2: I envy about New York that I'm not sure at

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Speaker 2: Lanta has.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I could be wrong.

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Speaker 2: Don't get on my case at Aliens, because seriously, like

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Speaker 2: I don't know the answer to this. But I also

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Speaker 2: love like anyone that sort of like earned the right

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Speaker 2: to complain about a city, or to at least speak

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Speaker 2: about a city, especially.

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Speaker 1: A place like New York.

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Speaker 2: Right, So it's almost like these people who have just

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Speaker 2: lived there their entire lives.

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Speaker 1: They have participated in.

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Speaker 2: You know the world that they're in, and then it's many,

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Speaker 2: many years later and they have these, you know, really

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Speaker 2: baked in opinions about everything about where they live.

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Speaker 1: And that's what makes her so great, right.

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Speaker 2: Is that she is that gronddam And I feel like

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Speaker 2: that that only seems to be inherent to great cities, right,

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Speaker 2: I mean, unless there is a person in like Grand Rapids, Michigan,

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Speaker 2: who is the friendly bewits of Grand Rapids, Michigan, or

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Speaker 2: is like who's the who's the friend labors of Orlando,

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Speaker 2: like someone's Lanta?

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Speaker 3: Completely, like that is one hundred percent. What's special about

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Speaker 3: her is that not only at this point in time,

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Speaker 3: but I think there's no point in time where we

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Speaker 3: could have another person like her in New York. A

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Speaker 3: lot of people try, and that's what's what sucks. We've

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Speaker 3: kind of started this lexicon where we use the word

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Speaker 3: unapologetic all the time, and I don't understand that. I

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Speaker 3: don't understand why the assumption is that we should be

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Speaker 3: apologizing for anything right off the bat.

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Speaker 1: But I do think that she is.

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Speaker 3: An unabashed fan of truth and being herself and so

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Speaker 3: she's just kind of herself and that is it's not

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Speaker 3: put on.

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Speaker 1: She doesn't care what people think. She's really a part

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Speaker 1: of a dying breed.

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Speaker 3: I think that there is there's a lot of people

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Speaker 3: who try to be like her. That's part of why

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Speaker 3: the city has changed so dramatically in recent years is

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Speaker 3: that everyone comes there with an idea of what they

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Speaker 3: think New York is and how they think they should

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Speaker 3: be in it, based on fictional care characters or heroes.

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Speaker 1: And so everyone shows up and wants.

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Speaker 3: To be carried from sex and the city or they

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Speaker 3: want to be friendlywitz and they want to be and

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Speaker 3: no one is just who they are. They show up

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Speaker 3: with these preconceived notions of who they are. Yeah, so

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Speaker 3: it's just kind of different.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I And I have to say too. I Mean,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to blame the Internet all the.

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Speaker 2: Time for things, but I also think that like the Internet,

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Speaker 2: you know, has sort of allowed people to create a

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Speaker 2: whole vision of what they think something is, like like

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Speaker 2: how they think a person in New York lives, you know,

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Speaker 2: And you're right, a lot of the guidance comes from

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Speaker 2: television and movies, but like also just you know, for

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Speaker 2: for somebody like friendly boloits. There wasn't like the internet

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Speaker 2: to like look up every cool band and every cool

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Speaker 2: restaurant and every cool you know sort of place to

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Speaker 2: hang out.

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Speaker 1: Right. It was just sort of like a different type

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Speaker 1: of life. There is no blueprint. There's no blueprint, no blueprint.

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Speaker 2: And also just of like no one you just had

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Speaker 2: to have like lived a certain amount of years before

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Speaker 2: you could start getting kind of grouchy about some stuff.

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Speaker 1: That's kind of how I feel. Just let things happen.

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Speaker 2: Like, you know, like I don't know it's I waited

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Speaker 2: a long time before I was like really loud mouthed

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Speaker 2: about where I'm from, And now, bitch, I'm fucking on,

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Speaker 2: Like I'm just.

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Speaker 1: Like I lived there for thirty years. I haven't fucking right.

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Speaker 3: You know. So? And also is it is it at Aliens?

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Speaker 3: I always thought it was Atlians. I love you so

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Speaker 3: fucking much.

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Speaker 1: I'm real literal about that name.

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Speaker 2: This is another is Leonardo DiCaprio too, like every week

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Speaker 2: now where I'm just like I don't know it sounds

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Speaker 2: like he could have been Swedish or like.

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Speaker 1: His name is is Vincenzo. This is like.

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Speaker 3: This is like when you're first learning like new words,

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Speaker 3: or like whenever you learn a new words and you

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Speaker 3: haven't heard somebody say it yet. Yes, so you're like,

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Speaker 3: I don't know how to pronounce it. I'll just pronounce

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Speaker 3: it how it is in my head.

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Speaker 1: I have no idea if it's aliens, aliens, what.

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Speaker 2: Did you say it was at atlant aliens as.

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Speaker 1: I can't fucking breathe Atliens.

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Speaker 3: God, my apologies to anyone in Atlanta. From Atlanta, I

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Speaker 3: have killed Millie Millians is a struggling a function right now?

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Speaker 3: Tell me, in the wake of my being a total fool,

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Speaker 3: how are you doing this?

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Speaker 1: No? I can't recover from that.

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Speaker 2: Ah, too much good shit just happened for me to

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Speaker 2: even move on. Well, the only thing that has happened,

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Speaker 2: literally in the week since we last sat down to

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Speaker 2: do this podcast is that the DiCaprio hive is lit

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Speaker 2: as hell.

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Speaker 1: They are in true shock.

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Speaker 2: And disbelief that I've never seen Titanic and Romeo and

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Speaker 2: Juliet and.

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Speaker 1: Have been very good to tell me about that.

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Speaker 3: Well, I feel like the hive is assuming that you're

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Speaker 3: like actively against these things and that if you wanted

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Speaker 3: to watch them, you couldn't access them, and that is

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Speaker 3: not what's happening. You have a preference of this actor's work,

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Speaker 3: and that's what's happening.

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Speaker 1: But it's so funny that when did this move, Like

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Speaker 1: nineteen ninety.

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Speaker 2: Six is when Romeo and Juliet came out, So there

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Speaker 2: has been literal decades in between now and then, and

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Speaker 2: people are.

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Speaker 1: Still like, what you thought it was a safe space.

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Speaker 2: I know, I don't even have like I am not

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Speaker 2: against it, Like at this point, I feel like I'm

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Speaker 2: probably more interested in seeing Romeo and Juliet maybe.

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Speaker 1: Than Titanic, just out of general curiosity.

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Speaker 2: But it's not as if I'm against it. I just

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Speaker 2: didn't see it. But also I have to say, and

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Speaker 2: this is something that happens on Twitter, especially a lot,

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Speaker 2: everybody assumes that everybody's the same age I think, where

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Speaker 2: the timelines of people as they're growing up and how

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Speaker 2: they've gotten into certain things are completely different, right, Right,

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Speaker 2: Like I said in that last episode, like my sister

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Speaker 2: who is three years younger than me, obsessed withly in

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Speaker 2: Ardo DiCaprio.

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Speaker 1: I'm three years older.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, EH, could take him or leave him at

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Speaker 2: the time, right, Because when Titanic came out.

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Speaker 1: I was already in college.

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Speaker 2: I was already into my whole like foreign film cinophile bullshit,

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Speaker 2: that I would have never wanted to see a movie

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Speaker 2: like Titanic because I'm like, yo, that's like the most

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Speaker 2: popular movie of all time. Why would I see.

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Speaker 1: That crap or whatever? And that was a big deal

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Speaker 1: for us.

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Speaker 3: And that's something that people also to understand, is how

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Speaker 3: big a deal it was for us to have been

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Speaker 3: made into outcasts for most of our lives and not

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Speaker 3: participating in popular culture is what sustained our beliefs in

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Speaker 3: who we were, or you know, like not participating in

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Speaker 3: popular popular culture wasn't open to us as a pathway

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Speaker 3: for a long time because we were excluded from that

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Speaker 3: side of life.

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Speaker 2: And also never underestimate the way that being a quote

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Speaker 2: unquote sellout was a huge thing in the nineties. Because

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Speaker 2: I'll tell you, and this is maybe shameful, I apologize

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Speaker 2: to clar Days. This is pre latist clar Day and

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Speaker 2: so of course anything goes. But when she did My

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Speaker 2: Soul called Life, which was I want to say it

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Speaker 2: was like ninety three or ninety four, I'm not entirely sure.

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Speaker 1: I was like who is.

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Speaker 2: This amazing Angeenu who is living my exact.

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Speaker 1: Life on this TV show.

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Speaker 2: Okay, by the time she was at Romeo and Juliet,

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Speaker 2: I was like, uh really, like wow, now she's like

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Speaker 2: all over the place and she's in this huge movie

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Speaker 2: with this other huge movie star, and she's no longer

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Speaker 2: my underground love. She's like h on every magazine in America.

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Speaker 2: I was like, never underestimate that. That is illogical and

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Speaker 2: stupid to most people from looking at her from today's eyes.

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Speaker 1: But like at the time, that was a huge deal.

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Speaker 3: And nowadays it's like everyone's trying to be popular and

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Speaker 3: well known.

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Speaker 1: But back then that was not the steas.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, man, I mean you would get docked for like

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Speaker 2: the dumbest shit, Like you would get docked if your

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Speaker 2: song was in a commercial. Like if you were a

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Speaker 2: band and your song was in like a popular commercial,

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Speaker 2: you're like, ah, it's over.

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Speaker 1: We don't like them anymore.

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Speaker 2: I mean shit, I remember when like Green Day went

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Speaker 2: to a major label and put out dude Yeah, and

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Speaker 2: everybody in my high school was like fuck them.

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Speaker 3: I mean that's like us I got Nirvana, like smells

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Speaker 3: like teen Spirit. People are like bleach is better album.

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Speaker 3: I can't believe they sold out like that.

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Speaker 1: And I'm like, can people live please?

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Speaker 3: Like, if their music is good, do you not want

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Speaker 3: as many people as possible to hear it? We were

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Speaker 3: totally brainwashed in the weirdest way, the weirdest way. And

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Speaker 3: I also think there's something to be said for these

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Speaker 3: these movies. There are certain movies that are very important

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Speaker 3: at certain points in your life that will not withstand

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Speaker 3: the test of time if you didn't see them in

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Speaker 3: that moment. So, for example, I've never seen Repo Man

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Speaker 3: and I never will. You know why, Because I am

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Speaker 3: not angry fucking punk metal, piece of shit asshole anymore.

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Speaker 3: That movie's not gonna hit me the same way.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god. I mean that happens all the time

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Speaker 1: to me too.

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Speaker 2: It's like there are movies that I saw at a

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Speaker 2: certain age that I will literally never watch again because

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Speaker 2: I'm like, how could I do that?

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Speaker 1: Like Cannibal Holocaust? What on earth? Like there was a

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Speaker 1: movie called Cannibal Holocaust.

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Speaker 2: It was, you know, a movie about cannibals in the jungle.

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Speaker 2: That is so crazy. When I was like a teenager,

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Speaker 2: you know, I was so attracted to watching like really transgressive,

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Speaker 2: really fucked up shit, and now I just I'm not like,

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Speaker 2: I'm just not I've changed, like that had its time

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Speaker 2: and place. I mean that's kind of literally literally the

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Speaker 2: ship has sailed on Titanic because.

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Speaker 1: I feel like, what, don't I know that.

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Speaker 3: Boat has been underwater for so long that there's they've

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Speaker 3: they've re dug it up since I could have watched

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Speaker 3: the movie, like they found everything there is to find

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Speaker 3: about the Titanic. And that's how I feel about you

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Speaker 3: and Romeo and Juliet and Titanic. It's like it was

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Speaker 3: a moment and it didn't it wasn't appealing. I've already

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Speaker 3: sent you the gift of Paul Rudd dancing and that's

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Speaker 3: all you need to know about Romeo and Juliet.

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Speaker 2: You know, I appreciate that because then it's like, oh,

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Speaker 2: it gets me out of sitting through a movie. But

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Speaker 2: just because we watched so many movies now it's insane.

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Speaker 3: The technology has changed and sometimes it works in your favor.

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Speaker 1: You can watch a gift exactly, but I do.

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Speaker 2: I am a proponent though normally of watching like really

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Speaker 2: popular movies like much later in life, like I saw

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Speaker 2: risky business for the first time, only like a month ago.

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Speaker 3: Uh.

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Speaker 1: The thing about Titanic and Romeo.

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Speaker 2: And Juliet was that were people like and some of

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Speaker 2: my friends. I'm not calling you out, fam, but I'm

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Speaker 2: just saying that y'all were like fucking floored.

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Speaker 1: And I'm like, is that really that shocking?

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Speaker 2: Like?

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Speaker 1: Are we shocked by this anymore? I don't know.

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Speaker 3: People were leaving comments like I stopped the episode to

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Speaker 3: write this comment because I can't believe you didn't see Titanic,

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Speaker 3: And I'm like, damn, y'all.

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Speaker 2: I know it's been a tough month, and let me

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Speaker 2: just tell y'all, no shade, okay, but like sometimes sometimes

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Speaker 2: we conflate great works of art with shit that we

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Speaker 2: loved as a horny teenager. And so just all I'm

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Speaker 2: saying is, before you go on the internet and chout

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Speaker 2: down on this woman for not having seen something, just

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Speaker 2: way to beat and go.

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Speaker 1: Was I a horny teen when I watched that? Or

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Speaker 1: is it a great work of art? Would Frand label

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Speaker 1: withstand this? Would she? If so, I'll proceed the eternal

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Speaker 1: question is it good? Or was I horny?

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Speaker 3: Apply it to your life, Apply it to your marriage,

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Speaker 3: Apply it to your relationships?

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Speaker 1: Is it good or was I horney?

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Speaker 2: That's gonna be an episode. Write that one down. We're

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Speaker 2: doing We're doing that episode.

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Speaker 1: We're doing it, all right. So let's talk about this

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Speaker 1: theme we got this week, shall we? Let's do it

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Speaker 1: speaking of is it good or was I horny?

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Speaker 3: Our theme this week is whatever happened to straight male

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Speaker 3: sex workers?

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Speaker 1: Let's get into it. Cared unpack that a little bit.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I think that there was a moment, a

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Speaker 3: cultural moment, because we're not making a case for or

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Speaker 3: against or trying to sway people one way or the other,

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Speaker 3: but there was a cultural moment where there were a

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Speaker 3: lot of movies about straight male sex workers. So our

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Speaker 3: reason for wanting to look at it as a theme

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Speaker 3: is to question why did it go away? And I

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Speaker 3: think I'm also particularly interested in does it relate to

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Speaker 3: the kind of feminist backlash that we've experienced that liked

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Speaker 3: to see women getting joy from sex has become taboo

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Speaker 3: or culturally for a while, it wasn't culturally the way

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Speaker 3: things were going.

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Speaker 2: I think sex work is frequently a topic in a

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Speaker 2: lot of film and TV, in music for that matter,

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Speaker 2: and you know, obviously typically from the female the feminine perspective.

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Speaker 1: It was interesting, I think for us growing up because there.

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Speaker 2: Was the sense of like, oh, this is like a

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Speaker 2: straight man performing sex work, right, and the story is

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Speaker 2: always so much different there than it was whenever there

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Speaker 2: was an introduction of like a woman sex worker, you.

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Speaker 3: Know what I mean completely, And I think that that

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Speaker 3: gendered aspect is what's interesting to me for sure, and

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Speaker 3: that to grow up with that message that adult women

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Speaker 3: also want to hire sex workers is something that we

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Speaker 3: lost for a while, and that you know, like you said,

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Speaker 3: male sex workers, straight male sex workers were treated totally

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Speaker 3: differently from women, totally differently, Like they had more panache,

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Speaker 3: they had more style, they weren't under the threat of violence,

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Speaker 3: they weren't killed instantly. Like there was just all these

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Speaker 3: things that fed into this horrible trope for so long

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Speaker 3: that were missing from that particular narrative. And there were

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Speaker 3: so many movies about straight male sex workers that I wondered,

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Speaker 3: you know why that was able to persist for as

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Speaker 3: long as it did.

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Speaker 1: Like they may kind of like male sex work was cool.

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Speaker 1: The concept of it via all.

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Speaker 2: These TV shows and movies was that, oh, this guy

404
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:07,200
Speaker 2: must be a real stud he's doing some the Lord's

405
00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:11,080
Speaker 2: work helping all these like like helping to satisfy all these.

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Speaker 1: Like lonely old ladies, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: It was just all that whole narrative. But it's always

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Speaker 2: such a different story than any kind.

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Speaker 1: Of other sex work you have out there.

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Speaker 2: And you're absolutely right about the idea that it's you

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Speaker 2: see less violence, less threat when it comes to this story,

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Speaker 2: And that's just an interesting thing to think about, and

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Speaker 2: it's an interesting lens through which to look, you know

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Speaker 2: what I mean.

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Speaker 3: Right, And I don't think we don't do this very often,

416
00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:48,200
Speaker 3: but I'm kind of interested in comparing these two films

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Speaker 3: once we talk about both films, because I think there

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00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:56,360
Speaker 3: are different messages being sent based on race and class

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Speaker 3: and a whole bunch of a whole host of other things.

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Speaker 3: So I think that that's something that I definitely want

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Speaker 3: to look at after we talk about our films.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, Well Europe first, So why don't you go

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Speaker 2: for what's your movie this week?

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Speaker 3: So? My movie is Sweet, Sweetbacks badass song from nineteen

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Speaker 3: seventy one, directed by Melvin Van Peebles.

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Speaker 1: I assume Sweet, though I haven't seen the cat. I

427
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Speaker 1: don't want to see.

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Speaker 2: Him, you just keep leaning and lean it and lean

429
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Speaker 2: it get down.

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Speaker 3: So this is fascinating from many points of view right

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Speaker 3: off the bat. First of all, I have to say

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Speaker 3: that this is one of those movies that is so

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Speaker 3: indicative and was so present in black culture as a

434
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:48,359
Speaker 3: cult movie for so long, and in twenty twenty it

435
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:51,479
Speaker 3: was selected for preservation in the National Film Registry by

436
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:57,280
Speaker 3: the Library of Congress for being culturally, historically and aesthetically significant,

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00:23:57,480 --> 00:23:59,359
Speaker 3: which is a big deal because this was not a

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Speaker 3: movie made with the aspirations of being in the Library

439
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:05,720
Speaker 3: of Congress. And then in the beginning of the movie,

440
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:09,320
Speaker 3: the first things you see are kind of this text

441
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Speaker 3: over the image of this man who's running, and the

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Speaker 3: movie refers to itself as a hymn from the mouth

443
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:22,080
Speaker 3: of reality. And the dedication is this film is dedicated

444
00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:24,520
Speaker 3: to all the brothers and sisters who had enough of

445
00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:26,960
Speaker 3: the man. So this is not a movie that was

446
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:31,440
Speaker 3: like aspiring to be accepted by the Library of Congress.

447
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:35,159
Speaker 3: But that's part of what's interesting about it, you know,

448
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:37,639
Speaker 3: is that it was such an underground cult kind of

449
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:40,919
Speaker 3: movie for so long, but it was really saying something

450
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:42,879
Speaker 3: of the moment. So in nineteen seventy one, you have

451
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:44,960
Speaker 3: to think about what was happening with the Black Panthers,

452
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 3: what was happening with you know, police violence, and what

453
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:53,000
Speaker 3: was happening with America, which again is fascinating when you

454
00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 3: look at our current culture and how far we have

455
00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:57,560
Speaker 3: not come from those issues.

456
00:24:58,320 --> 00:24:59,760
Speaker 1: So just to kind of give some some.

457
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:02,680
Speaker 3: Back grind in the movie right away, the director was

458
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,640
Speaker 3: Melvin Van Peebles, but he also wrote the film. He

459
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:09,280
Speaker 3: sometimes refers to himself as Brair Soul, so I think

460
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:11,439
Speaker 3: in the credits he's Brair Soul, but it's it's Melvin

461
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 3: Van Peebles.

462
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:13,439
Speaker 1: That was just some seventies shit. You know.

463
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:15,399
Speaker 3: People in the seventies were like, my name is now

464
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:23,000
Speaker 3: Moonflower Sunbeam like that. That. So the plot of this

465
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:29,160
Speaker 3: is that this very young, orphaned boy is taken in

466
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:34,320
Speaker 3: by this brothel in the nineteen forties and he is

467
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:36,600
Speaker 3: kind of like the towel delivery boy, like he does

468
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 3: kind of odd jobs and he's raped. One of the

469
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,239
Speaker 3: sex workers pulls him in one day and is like

470
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:46,480
Speaker 3: just pulls him on top of her, and that's how

471
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:49,840
Speaker 3: he gets his nickname of Sweet Sweetback. Is he is

472
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:54,000
Speaker 3: raped by this, you know, assaulted by this this sex worker,

473
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:57,119
Speaker 3: and that is a hardcore way to start a movie

474
00:25:57,359 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 3: like that is no punches are.

475
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:02,800
Speaker 1: Being pull no punch is being pulled.

476
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:06,359
Speaker 3: And it's something we so rarely see, which is sex

477
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,960
Speaker 3: abuse in boys being shown on screen. And it's so

478
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,239
Speaker 3: it's not done comically, but it is not done with

479
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:18,760
Speaker 3: the seriousness that it would be done today, like like

480
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,879
Speaker 3: that Antoine Fisher kind of way. But what's interesting is like,

481
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 3: so right away I was struck with this notion that

482
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:28,560
Speaker 3: this is a man who goes through life with a

483
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:32,160
Speaker 3: nickname he got from his most traumatic point in his life,

484
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 3: and he goes on to become a sex worker at

485
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 3: that brothel and he does live sex shows and you know,

486
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:43,520
Speaker 3: he's kind of like a big deal in that world.

487
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:47,120
Speaker 3: So it's that notion of you know, who is gazing

488
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:49,600
Speaker 3: at him, who's looking at him, who's participating with him

489
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 3: in these like really bodily traumatic issues, and knowing that

490
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:56,919
Speaker 3: he was groomed into this.

491
00:26:57,080 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 1: This isn't a choice.

492
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 3: This is something that is again like his his deepest

493
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:04,480
Speaker 3: point of trauma. So the movie is basically about how,

494
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 3: as an adult, he is kind of offered up by

495
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 3: his boss as a suspect for a murder case because

496
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:15,040
Speaker 3: they're the police are like, well, we just need to

497
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 3: like you know, arrest someone. We'll let him out in

498
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:21,280
Speaker 3: a couple of days, it'll be fine. That is not

499
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:24,040
Speaker 3: what happens. All hell breaks loose, So that is kind

500
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:27,159
Speaker 3: of the premise of the film. And yeah, I just

501
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:29,800
Speaker 3: I don't know, I just really it made me think

502
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 3: so much about performative sexuality and gender roles and violence

503
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,919
Speaker 3: and blackness truly, Like it is. There's a funeral scene

504
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:44,879
Speaker 3: where someone says that the person who died overdosed on

505
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:49,439
Speaker 3: black misery, and I think that, you know, how black

506
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 3: bodies are sexualized from birth is a big part of

507
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 3: the discussion of this film. So it's done in this

508
00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 3: very seventies, you know, kind of desert dusty way, Like

509
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 3: it seems like the kind of film that was also

510
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:07,040
Speaker 3: thought about in a dream, like Robert Allman with Three Women.

511
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:10,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, but yeah, it's just.

512
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 3: Got this really ethereal quality to it that you're not

513
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:15,399
Speaker 3: sure what's going to happen.

514
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:19,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, and honestly, like, I'm glad that you

515
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 2: picked this movie just in general, Like, I'm glad that

516
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 2: this movie is something that we watched and we get

517
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:29,359
Speaker 2: to talk about on this podcast because you know, I

518
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:33,639
Speaker 2: have so much admiration for Melvin Van Peebles just in general,

519
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:37,560
Speaker 2: because I think he's like a true artist, right, Like,

520
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:40,040
Speaker 2: if you read about Melvin Van Peebles, he's like, he's

521
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 2: a writer, he's written novels, he's written plays, he's written albums,

522
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:48,960
Speaker 2: he's a musician, he's a director, he's acted, so you know,

523
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 2: so much of like his life has been lived as

524
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 2: an actual artist. The thing that this is so interesting

525
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 2: about Sweetback is that so I'm a big fan of

526
00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:02,200
Speaker 2: his first movie, it's called Story of a Three Day Pass,

527
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 2: and he made that movie in France, and it's basically like,

528
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 2: you know, here's an American guy that at some point

529
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 2: went to France, which as a black artist. You know,

530
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 2: it seems to me that they had way more respect

531
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 2: for black artists in France than they did in America

532
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 2: at that time. And he basically was brought into the

533
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 2: cinema Tech Frances which is essentially like where all tour

534
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:33,960
Speaker 2: theory and French New Wave was started. And he was

535
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 2: brought to France by Henri Langois, who was the guy.

536
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 1: That started it.

537
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 2: And he's such a huge person like the film preservation

538
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 2: cinephile community, so he was like a legit guy. Yeah,

539
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 2: and after that came to America made Watermelon Man, which

540
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 2: is like his big Hollywood movie, and then when they

541
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:52,959
Speaker 2: were like this is great, we want you to make

542
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 2: more Hollywood movies, he was like, fuck that, I'm making

543
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:59,240
Speaker 2: Sweet Sweetbags, bad hass song. I'm having complete creative control.

544
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 2: I'm telling the story that I want to.

545
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:02,560
Speaker 1: Tell, and I'm in a finance it myself.

546
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and you know, when it comes down to it,

547
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:09,040
Speaker 2: that's what this movie is is it's basically like this

548
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 2: single person's vision. And that's why I'm like so glad

549
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:16,360
Speaker 2: that we're talking about it, because I don't think that

550
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 2: I would say this is probably one of the first

551
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 2: movies that we're we've talked about on this podcast that

552
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 2: is really that it's really like a singular artist's vision

553
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:28,760
Speaker 2: and was seen from like top to bottom that way.

554
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 3: Also, it's very rare that again it's making a comeback

555
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 3: in a bigger way and in a big screen way,

556
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:39,120
Speaker 3: but it's so rare that we get to talk about

557
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 3: black auteurs. And Melvin van Peebles definitely.

558
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:45,720
Speaker 1: Was one, absolutely, I mean honestly like he was.

559
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 2: There's a lot of debate I think going on right

560
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:52,280
Speaker 2: now about the term blaxploitation and you know, whether or

561
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:55,320
Speaker 2: not that's a good term or a bad term, and

562
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 2: whether or not the whole you know, genre in general

563
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 2: was probably or not. And a lot of people I

564
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:08,360
Speaker 2: think classify Sweet Sweetbacks as you know, like the first

565
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 2: blaxploitation movie or one of the first blaxploitation movies. But

566
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 2: I actually think it's not. I think it's doing something

567
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:19,240
Speaker 2: much bigger. It's a art film if you want to

568
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 2: get right down to it. There needs to be more

569
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 2: distribution of people like him and other you know, black auteurs,

570
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 2: which is I think the reason why we don't talk

571
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 2: about them as much as we should as a film culture.

572
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:35,280
Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean? Right?

573
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:37,360
Speaker 3: And I think that it's that app it's it's kind

574
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 3: of and it correct me if I'm wrong, But it

575
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 3: feels like it comes from a place of shame, like

576
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:44,240
Speaker 3: if we if we don't talk about it, then we

577
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:46,840
Speaker 3: don't have to acknowledge the fact that we haven't been

578
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:51,600
Speaker 3: putting any effort, money or time into venerating and lifting

579
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:52,280
Speaker 3: these voices.

580
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 2: It's just really hard for you know, bipop people in

581
00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 2: general to get their art in this world.

582
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean? But I really do

583
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 1: think it.

584
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 2: Comes from this idea that we just did not put

585
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 2: enough effort into making somebody like Melvin Van Peebles household

586
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 2: name in the same way that we would talk about

587
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 2: like Jean lu guitar or you know whoever.

588
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:20,960
Speaker 1: And that is shameful. That's shameful, it absolutely is.

589
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:24,240
Speaker 3: And I think that there's his son, Mario Van Peebles

590
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:31,560
Speaker 3: was more kind of our generations. Van Peebles, he actually

591
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 3: did a movie called Badass that is about it's like

592
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 3: a companion piece to Sweet sweetpecs Badass song about how

593
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 3: the film was made if you're interested in exploring that further.

594
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 3: And he also appears in this movie as a young Sweetbeck.

595
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:49,520
Speaker 3: But basically it is a different conversation. And you can

596
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 3: tell that his school of thought, in his school of

597
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 3: training for film was more expansive because he was able

598
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 3: to cast his son as the young version of Sweetback

599
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:02,240
Speaker 3: without I think, probably a second thought. And it's like

600
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 3: a very it's a violent scene, you know, it's a traumatic,

601
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 3: violent scene, and that would not happen today. It would

602
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 3: not happen today, for better and worse. But I think

603
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 3: that he's able to show his expansiveness as a creator

604
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 3: and to really talk about things that are presently happening

605
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 3: and that persist in black culture through his art. It's

606
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 3: just he's a really masterful storyteller.

607
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:33,240
Speaker 2: It's composed in a very interesting way, and it's.

608
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:35,479
Speaker 1: Very artistic, and I just love it. I love it

609
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 1: for that, all right. So my movie for.

610
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:45,880
Speaker 2: This week, for the theme of whatever Happened to Straight

611
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:49,480
Speaker 2: male sex Workers is a film that was made in

612
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:53,800
Speaker 2: the neo Noah style. It's a movie from nineteen eighty.

613
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 2: It's called American Jigglow, directed by Paul Schrader.

614
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:02,080
Speaker 1: His name is Julian k. So what do you expect?

615
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:08,320
Speaker 1: His business is pleasure? Hello, Judy with a sex slator.

616
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:10,239
Speaker 3: But I could live alone.

617
00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:12,759
Speaker 2: So let me ask you, Danielle, let me ask you,

618
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:17,319
Speaker 2: like a real ask question. Okay, So is the term jigglow?

619
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:19,840
Speaker 2: How do you feel about this word? I'm just curious.

620
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 2: I actually don't know anything about the origins of this word.

621
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:25,480
Speaker 1: I'm just simply curious about it.

622
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:28,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, to me, it seems like an outdated term.

623
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:33,319
Speaker 3: It's not quite as e offensive as prostitute. But it's

624
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 3: not something that should be used because I think the

625
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:40,600
Speaker 3: origins of it is that it was originally referred to

626
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:45,080
Speaker 3: as like a dancing partner for women, but grew into

627
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:50,840
Speaker 3: this notion that male sex workers who were jigglows were

628
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:55,360
Speaker 3: worked with a higher class client and that they were

629
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:57,640
Speaker 3: it was a word that signified that they were not

630
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:01,759
Speaker 3: gay male sex workers. So kind of it was a

631
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:07,279
Speaker 3: distinguishing word between set for sexuality and for class. But

632
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 3: we don't have to use that anymore. Richard Gear in

633
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:11,960
Speaker 3: this movie, he was a sex worker.

634
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 2: So you're basically telling me that Deuce bigelow male jiggalow

635
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 2: is redundant, like a male jiggalo is a redundancy.

636
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:30,560
Speaker 1: Okay, nobody fact accurately, Okay, just simply curious. Okay.

637
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 2: So for my movie, like right off the bat, this

638
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 2: film was written and directed by Paul Schrader. If you

639
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:40,319
Speaker 2: do not know him, I'm certain again you can find

640
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:42,440
Speaker 2: somebody on a film cast talking about him.

641
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 1: Okay. So I'm not gonna go too too much into it.

642
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:49,560
Speaker 2: So he was a part of that whole New Hollywood era,

643
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:52,800
Speaker 2: which included, of course Martin's Corsese we've talked about for

644
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 2: two weeks in a row now an all time record.

645
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 3: Uh.

646
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:04,760
Speaker 2: He in fact wrote for Martin Scorsese movies including Taxi Driver,

647
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:09,280
Speaker 2: Raging Bull, and The Last Sentation of Christ I can't

648
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:10,080
Speaker 2: remember the fourth.

649
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:12,520
Speaker 1: I think it was Bringing Out the dim. He also

650
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:16,400
Speaker 1: wrote and directed this movie called Hardcore with George C.

651
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:20,960
Speaker 2: Scott, which I think is an absolutely bonker's film and

652
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:25,239
Speaker 2: might be extra credit. I'm not sure, but I just

653
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:28,560
Speaker 2: had to say the words I had to say that movie.

654
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 2: And then most recently, he made First Reforms, which basically

655
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:40,480
Speaker 2: throws our honorable classic movie Fuck Boy Ethan Hawk into

656
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 2: the sexy priest cannon. So now because of Paul Schwader,

657
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:49,280
Speaker 2: Ethan Hawk is a sexy priest.

658
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:49,319
Speaker 1: Thank you.

659
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:53,120
Speaker 2: And the last thing I'll say is that he directed

660
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 2: the absolutely notorious movie called The Canyons, which was written

661
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:04,360
Speaker 2: by at Easton Ellis and stars Lindsay Lohan and the

662
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:05,719
Speaker 2: porn star James Dean.

663
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:07,360
Speaker 1: And let me just tell.

664
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:10,280
Speaker 2: You right now, when I heard rumors about this movie

665
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:14,319
Speaker 2: maybe happening, I wanted to see it in this like

666
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:19,360
Speaker 2: total like I'm a high schooler waiting to see Faces

667
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:21,520
Speaker 2: of Death for the first time. Type of way, like

668
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:27,200
Speaker 2: I was so curious and jazzed and like excited to

669
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:30,919
Speaker 2: see it, but then I saw it, and that's all

670
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:31,439
Speaker 2: we'll say.

671
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:34,840
Speaker 1: Did you see it in a theater?

672
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:36,080
Speaker 3: Did you watch it at home?

673
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:37,279
Speaker 1: I saw it out iTunes.

674
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 2: I think that's where it got distributed or something was

675
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:43,719
Speaker 2: only on iTunes. There's listen google it. There's actually this

676
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:45,920
Speaker 2: entire I want to say.

677
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:47,160
Speaker 1: It's either GQ magazine.

678
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:51,640
Speaker 2: It's like this entire story about the production of that movie.

679
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:55,360
Speaker 2: And they interviewed Paul Schwader. It was insane, Like it's insane.

680
00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:58,759
Speaker 2: You know, this was like the high Lindsay Lohan era.

681
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 2: Just go and search.

682
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:03,480
Speaker 3: This is also I feel like the era of taking

683
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 3: Brett Easton Ellis and Paul Schrader and putting them together

684
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 3: is like marrying coke and heroin and coming up with

685
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:12,680
Speaker 3: like crack cocaine.

686
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:17,840
Speaker 2: Yes, it's like if shit Posting was film. It's truly

687
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:22,400
Speaker 2: like amazing. One of the most interesting things that I

688
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:24,279
Speaker 2: think about when I think of Paul Schrader is that

689
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:27,480
Speaker 2: he grew up really religious, which I think says a

690
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:29,440
Speaker 2: lot about his films, and.

691
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:32,719
Speaker 1: You know, he was actually like I think he was like.

692
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:36,680
Speaker 2: A philosophy in theology major when college, and I know

693
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:39,359
Speaker 2: we talked about French New Wave. But like a lot

694
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 2: of those French New Wave directors, he was actually a

695
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:44,800
Speaker 2: film critic before he was a director.

696
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:48,440
Speaker 1: And you know, there you go a.

697
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:50,399
Speaker 2: Lot of times when people are critics before they start

698
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 2: making this shit. You're like, okay, they got some opinions,

699
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:58,840
Speaker 2: and to marry both of those ideas together. He Schrader

700
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:04,320
Speaker 2: loves the French director named Robert Brosson, and basically Robert

701
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:07,200
Speaker 2: Boisson not only influenced the French New Wave, but he

702
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:09,720
Speaker 2: had a lot of religious themes in his work.

703
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:12,320
Speaker 1: So it kind of makes sense that Schrader and Brisson

704
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:13,760
Speaker 1: are like married.

705
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:16,759
Speaker 2: In fact, Paul Schwader loved him so much that he

706
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:20,160
Speaker 2: stole the ending from this Boison movie called Pickpocket and

707
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:22,640
Speaker 2: made it the ending of American Jigglo. And he did

708
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:25,080
Speaker 2: it like for a few other of his movies. So

709
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:28,560
Speaker 2: think about that next time you watch American Jiglow. If

710
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:30,759
Speaker 2: you watch it again, just know the ending is the

711
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:32,920
Speaker 2: Brasson ending that is wild.

712
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:33,960
Speaker 1: Yeah.

713
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:35,759
Speaker 2: All of this that I'm saying right now is to

714
00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:40,440
Speaker 2: explain to you that Paul Schwader, to me is like

715
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 2: a real film grump, like in the classic style. It's

716
00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:47,640
Speaker 2: the thing that we talked about when we started this

717
00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:51,040
Speaker 2: podcast about like how we want to be inclusive, right,

718
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:54,440
Speaker 2: and I come from this world where it pays to

719
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 2: have an opinion about some shit, and you know, having

720
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:01,719
Speaker 2: really strong film opinions is annoying, but at times it

721
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:05,120
Speaker 2: is kind of amusing and sadly. When I think about Pulshwader,

722
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:08,000
Speaker 2: I'm like, it's I kind of understand swag a little bit.

723
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:09,640
Speaker 1: Like he posts like he has a.

724
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:13,560
Speaker 2: Facebook account, by the way, a public Facebook account, and

725
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:17,719
Speaker 2: he posts a lot of his like film opinions and

726
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:20,680
Speaker 2: that kind of stuff. And it's like, I'll reactivate my

727
00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:23,759
Speaker 2: Facebook account just to read Paul Schwader's Facebook wall.

728
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 1: Like I'm just like, I'm in a mood.

729
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:28,600
Speaker 2: I want to hear, you know, a film grump talk

730
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 2: about how terrible the new Marvel movie is or whatever,

731
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:35,200
Speaker 2: even though he does this isn't Marvel, but he has

732
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:37,640
Speaker 2: a really big crush on Galgado.

733
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:42,400
Speaker 1: It's kind of weird. But you know what, who doesn't

734
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:45,400
Speaker 1: have a crush on Galgado? Whatever? Right? Right? I don't know.

735
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 2: So to give you a brief synopsis of the movie,

736
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:55,680
Speaker 2: American Jigglow stars Richard Gear as said Jigglow and Lord

737
00:40:55,800 --> 00:41:01,840
Speaker 2: Hutton as his married love interest. The score of the

738
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:06,920
Speaker 2: film was created by the undisputed King of sexy disco

739
00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:14,840
Speaker 2: cokehead music, Georgio Moroder, and features my second favorite.

740
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:16,880
Speaker 1: Blondie song of all time, which is call Me.

741
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:20,600
Speaker 2: My first favorite Blondie song for the record is Sunday Girl,

742
00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:22,320
Speaker 2: but call Me is my second favorite.

743
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:22,920
Speaker 1: So there you go.

744
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:27,279
Speaker 2: And I have to mention that American Jiggelow was one

745
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:31,760
Speaker 2: of the first Hollywood films where a major Hollywood actor

746
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:34,560
Speaker 2: did full frontal.

747
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:37,319
Speaker 1: Second week in a road talking about full frontal two,

748
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:39,120
Speaker 1: you know what I mean.

749
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:46,480
Speaker 2: Sometimes the themes overlap, I know. But the synopsis is

750
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 2: that Richard Gear plays this character named Julian. He is

751
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:55,320
Speaker 2: a male escort who lives in this like flashy apartment

752
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:58,880
Speaker 2: in Westwood, which, if you're not from la is basically

753
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:01,840
Speaker 2: like where UCLA is and also like a bunch of

754
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:07,040
Speaker 2: like weird fancy high rise apartments and it's like on Wilshire.

755
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:07,600
Speaker 1: Is that where?

756
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:10,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, which I assume that's where he lived. He lived

757
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:14,160
Speaker 2: in one of those like giant high rises off Wilshire.

758
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:16,880
Speaker 2: But he spends a lot of his time working out,

759
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:23,400
Speaker 2: hanging out by the pool, learning foreign languages. He's separating

760
00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:29,200
Speaker 2: his fancy Georgia Romani shirts from his non fancy Georgia

761
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:30,200
Speaker 2: Romani shirts.

762
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:34,359
Speaker 1: And he's like hanging out with rich, older.

763
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 2: Women at like bottoms, auction showrooms and shit like that.

764
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:42,560
Speaker 2: But he gets this offer to drive out to Palm

765
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:45,440
Speaker 2: Springs for a job and it ends up being this

766
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:47,600
Speaker 2: kind of creepy intense situation.

767
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:51,000
Speaker 1: With this like scary older rich guy and his wife.

768
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:55,040
Speaker 2: But you know, he straps in and does it comes

769
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:57,839
Speaker 2: back to La and that's that. And at the same time,

770
00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:00,879
Speaker 2: he meets the lord hunting character in a hotel and

771
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:04,480
Speaker 2: she's like very intrigued by the idea of hiring him.

772
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:08,000
Speaker 1: As an escort, even though she's married to a state senator.

773
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:11,120
Speaker 2: So there you go, and they somehow end up in

774
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 2: bed together and then proceed to have an actual affair,

775
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:17,719
Speaker 2: which of course is high stakes because of said senator.

776
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:21,719
Speaker 2: And then you know, of course, while that's happening, the

777
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:24,640
Speaker 2: woman that he was with in Palm Springs is suddenly

778
00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:28,719
Speaker 2: found dead, and of course Julian is now the prime suspect,

779
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:31,440
Speaker 2: and he's being investigated by Hector Elizondo.

780
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:33,960
Speaker 1: So yeah, the rest of.

781
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:36,719
Speaker 2: The film is him trying to figure out who's set

782
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:41,640
Speaker 2: him up. He's making fun of Hector Elizondo's clothes, and

783
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:44,440
Speaker 2: then he's trying to figure out if Lord Hutton will

784
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:49,040
Speaker 2: actually like leave her husband for him unreal. So and

785
00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:52,160
Speaker 2: you know, to put this in a historical context, yeah,

786
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:54,640
Speaker 2: this is the nineteen eighties, so a guy like Julian

787
00:43:54,880 --> 00:44:00,600
Speaker 2: is probably like he's seen as like the coolest guy ever, right, yep.

788
00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:03,200
Speaker 2: I mean it's totally yuppie porn if you want to

789
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:06,440
Speaker 2: get down to it. And I don't want to cut this,

790
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:11,160
Speaker 2: but I'm just gonna say it. I mean no disrespect

791
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:14,759
Speaker 2: to you, sir. Richard Gear Sir. Most people know him

792
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:18,520
Speaker 2: from My Pretty Woman, where he's like he plays essentially

793
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:22,520
Speaker 2: the inverse character of the move of this movie, and

794
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:26,320
Speaker 2: everybody thinks that movie is like a beautiful Hollywood romance.

795
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:28,920
Speaker 1: But I'm like, yo, this guy is kind of greasy still,

796
00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:32,400
Speaker 1: even this rom com, like.

797
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:40,879
Speaker 5: He's creepy and yo, Like, okay, when it comes down

798
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:44,920
Speaker 5: to it, I remember Richard Gear most from this movie

799
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:48,880
Speaker 5: called Looking for Mister Goodbar, where he also plays a

800
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:52,879
Speaker 5: sex worker in that movie what And I gotta tell you, I.

801
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:57,960
Speaker 2: Would absolutely love to talk about that movie on this podcast,

802
00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:00,799
Speaker 2: but I don't think it's available to watch at all.

803
00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:03,680
Speaker 2: Like I think it's there must be a rights issue

804
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:07,400
Speaker 2: because I had to go through like my work channels

805
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:10,239
Speaker 2: to find that movie, and there's like I think you

806
00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:13,279
Speaker 2: can find it on a bootleg maybe YouTube bootleg, but

807
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:17,120
Speaker 2: it's just not available. Otherwise, I would love to discuss

808
00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:20,720
Speaker 2: it because it is such an interesting text to talk about.

809
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:24,640
Speaker 2: But anyway, in American Jigglow, I feel like there's this

810
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:28,680
Speaker 2: arrogance to Julian, you know, and that's because he's rich

811
00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:30,799
Speaker 2: and he drives a convertible in dresses nice.

812
00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:34,240
Speaker 1: But he also he's kind of like always.

813
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:36,840
Speaker 2: Like giving himself his own importance of he's like this,

814
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:39,960
Speaker 2: I'm a he's being a savior to all these unhappy

815
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:41,480
Speaker 2: or unlovable women.

816
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:43,080
Speaker 1: Which I mean, it's annoying.

817
00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:46,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's this whole section where he basically talks about

818
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:49,680
Speaker 3: what it's like to give a woman her first orgasm

819
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:53,320
Speaker 3: in ten years, and like it's a lot.

820
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:56,200
Speaker 2: And I'm just kind of like greasy. I don't know,

821
00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:58,320
Speaker 2: I don't know what I think about this it's annoying.

822
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:01,279
Speaker 1: But I think what we were trying to hint at

823
00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:03,280
Speaker 1: at the beginning of the episode, which.

824
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:08,240
Speaker 2: Is that I think the savior aspect of these types

825
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:11,840
Speaker 2: of stories comes up quite a bit when it comes

826
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:15,800
Speaker 2: to male, straight male sex work. As you know, they're

827
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:23,239
Speaker 2: a savior, they're helping, they're creating happiness for women. I

828
00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:26,920
Speaker 2: feel like that's not the vibe when it's the opposite,

829
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:30,600
Speaker 2: the gendered opposite. But also like the thing that I

830
00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:33,360
Speaker 2: think does come into play with a lot of stuff

831
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:36,680
Speaker 2: about sex work in general is the idea of respectability.

832
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:40,759
Speaker 1: And the thing about American Sugglow that's interesting is.

833
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:45,479
Speaker 2: That, you know, Julian might be like a fancy male

834
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:48,439
Speaker 2: escort where I mean there's like scenes of him where

835
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:51,880
Speaker 2: like he's got people collecting his male and shining his shoes,

836
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:54,960
Speaker 2: and you know that puts him in a different cast

837
00:46:55,719 --> 00:46:58,640
Speaker 2: among the people in his world. But at the end

838
00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:01,759
Speaker 2: of the day, he's not allowed in the world of

839
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:04,239
Speaker 2: these uber rich people that he works for, even if

840
00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:06,560
Speaker 2: he has like all their gear, even if he's wearing

841
00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:09,759
Speaker 2: the Armani and he's going to the same restaurants, he's

842
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:11,000
Speaker 2: still not allowed there.

843
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:16,080
Speaker 3: And his fellow sex worker Leon James played by Bill Duke,

844
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:19,040
Speaker 3: is the one who kind of points that out to him, like,

845
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:22,799
Speaker 3: you're not you're alienating yourself from us, but you're also

846
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:23,800
Speaker 3: not one of them.

847
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:27,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I think that there's a scene where he

848
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:31,560
Speaker 2: goes to the Leather Bar to find him when he

849
00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:33,480
Speaker 2: figures out that he's being blamed for.

850
00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:37,080
Speaker 1: This murder, and you know, he goes in there, he

851
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:37,680
Speaker 1: knows the.

852
00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:40,520
Speaker 2: People there, he's you know, there's a certain language that

853
00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:44,080
Speaker 2: these that they speak. You know, there's his quote unquote

854
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:46,719
Speaker 2: boss he's confronting about it.

855
00:47:46,719 --> 00:47:49,879
Speaker 1: It's kind of sets up that double life.

856
00:47:49,600 --> 00:47:53,759
Speaker 2: Scenario where he's in this underground world that he has

857
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:56,440
Speaker 2: to navigate, which is honestly, I think what makes this

858
00:47:56,520 --> 00:47:59,600
Speaker 2: film very I mean that is a very film noir

859
00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:03,920
Speaker 2: ish type of mechanism is the you know, dealing with

860
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:07,960
Speaker 2: the underworld and also the idea that he knows that

861
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:12,920
Speaker 2: he's being set up, which is such a fascinating storytelling device.

862
00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:15,719
Speaker 2: I think is when it's kind of what happened in

863
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:20,239
Speaker 2: Sweep Back Too, where they're doing illegal activities but then

864
00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:23,800
Speaker 2: they have a crime committed against them, like they're being

865
00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:27,520
Speaker 2: set up and it puts them in this weird position,

866
00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:31,440
Speaker 2: and you know, that's a film noir thing as well,

867
00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:33,480
Speaker 2: Like I think that that's a that but that also

868
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:35,800
Speaker 2: is just sort of an interesting sort of plot device

869
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 2: because it is really like what are what is going

870
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:41,400
Speaker 2: to happen? Like, what's going to happen when you don't

871
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:43,879
Speaker 2: you're not able to advocate for yourself because what you're

872
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:45,080
Speaker 2: doing is technically.

873
00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:46,000
Speaker 1: Illegal, you know, right?

874
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:47,879
Speaker 3: And I mean again like we see that a lot

875
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:52,279
Speaker 3: in terms of people who don't report, you know, assaults

876
00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:55,440
Speaker 3: because they don't think the police will believe them because

877
00:48:55,440 --> 00:48:58,680
Speaker 3: they're sex workers. We see that in you know, across

878
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:01,520
Speaker 3: the board from people who are margin lines or who

879
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:05,279
Speaker 3: are doing somewhat criminal activities to survive. Then what kind

880
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:08,160
Speaker 3: of justice can they expect? And they kind of you know,

881
00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:11,520
Speaker 3: walk this this line. That's very interesting and this I

882
00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:15,080
Speaker 3: had never seen this before, well aware of it, but

883
00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:17,680
Speaker 3: just had never had any interest in seeing it.

884
00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:19,800
Speaker 1: But it was it was better than I thought it

885
00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:20,200
Speaker 1: would be.

886
00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:25,239
Speaker 3: And it was definitely like it's a quintessential eighties movie,

887
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:29,240
Speaker 3: which I really appreciate, Like it is just palm trees

888
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:34,200
Speaker 3: like Blazers. It is like that, like you said, the convertible,

889
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:38,960
Speaker 3: like super greasy tans and just like it was, it's

890
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:40,799
Speaker 3: an eighties movie through and through.

891
00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:45,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's single handily gave us the design.

892
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:48,160
Speaker 2: Maybe it's like a now a kind of design cliche

893
00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:52,480
Speaker 2: of the like blinds, of like people with like blinds

894
00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:54,719
Speaker 2: with like neon coming through them, like.

895
00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:57,799
Speaker 1: The same way, like if you see someone hanging out.

896
00:49:57,560 --> 00:50:00,800
Speaker 3: In gravity boots, then you're in an eighties movie exactly.

897
00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:02,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, gravity boots.

898
00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:07,120
Speaker 2: Uh completely, dude, I don't know anybody that has that anymore.

899
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:09,000
Speaker 1: Is that a thing that people do still is hang

900
00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:09,600
Speaker 1: upside down?

901
00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:12,719
Speaker 3: I don't think so. He was like really going for

902
00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:14,680
Speaker 3: He was not just hanging upside down. He was like

903
00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:17,480
Speaker 3: circling his arms and holding weights. And I'm like, is

904
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:19,880
Speaker 3: it not enough, sir that you were hanging by your ankles?

905
00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:21,839
Speaker 3: You have to do all this.

906
00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:25,799
Speaker 2: I was like, I couldn't even put one foot in

907
00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:29,560
Speaker 2: a boot like right side up, Like that seems insane.

908
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:32,560
Speaker 1: I'm like, you must be really fit to hang upside

909
00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:34,200
Speaker 1: down in a doorway.

910
00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:37,759
Speaker 3: I feel like there are probably too many rentals that

911
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:40,440
Speaker 3: they didn't get their deposit back because they probably ripped

912
00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:42,960
Speaker 3: out some of the door jam or the.

913
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:46,200
Speaker 1: Plasters on the wall. Also, people are like, maybe we

914
00:50:46,239 --> 00:50:48,319
Speaker 1: stop hanging upside down in our apartments.

915
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:53,600
Speaker 2: It's like, can we make a bowflex for these people?

916
00:50:53,719 --> 00:50:55,360
Speaker 1: I don't want another?

917
00:50:56,800 --> 00:51:01,120
Speaker 2: Why is my crown molding constantly being fucked up in

918
00:51:01,160 --> 00:51:04,320
Speaker 2: this nine unit apartment complex.

919
00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:04,399
Speaker 1: That I own.

920
00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:07,120
Speaker 2: There's another part of this movie that I love, too,

921
00:51:07,160 --> 00:51:12,320
Speaker 2: which is that I love any time there's a car

922
00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:16,120
Speaker 2: that's being taken apart in a movie to find a stash.

923
00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:18,000
Speaker 1: Yes, Like I love.

924
00:51:18,320 --> 00:51:20,760
Speaker 2: That movie The French Connection because of that where there's

925
00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:23,520
Speaker 2: like I love anybody who's like removing a door panel

926
00:51:23,640 --> 00:51:26,600
Speaker 2: or cutting the seat lining to find something, because that's

927
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:29,759
Speaker 2: like that seems insane to me. Where I'm like, oh,

928
00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:33,560
Speaker 2: we got to take a part this entire car, This

929
00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:36,720
Speaker 2: must take all day. Also, like where do you even start?

930
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:39,279
Speaker 3: Like I don't know where to start taking apart a car,

931
00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:41,279
Speaker 3: Like when I start with the door, when I pull

932
00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:46,960
Speaker 3: off the the like the stereo. How do I know

933
00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:49,680
Speaker 3: where to start getting into this car? I don't know

934
00:51:51,080 --> 00:51:54,040
Speaker 3: the trunk, like I have no like way in.

935
00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:57,320
Speaker 2: I know I would take everything out of the glove

936
00:51:57,360 --> 00:51:59,760
Speaker 2: compartment and be like, Okay, I'm tired.

937
00:51:59,840 --> 00:52:02,280
Speaker 1: I don't really know what else this is gonna take forever,

938
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:05,560
Speaker 1: Like it seems so daunting of a task to take

939
00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:07,720
Speaker 1: a part of car, Like I need an Alan wrench.

940
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:08,200
Speaker 1: Fuck this.

941
00:52:12,600 --> 00:52:16,840
Speaker 2: So here's all I'll say about American Juggalow too. So, like,

942
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:21,120
Speaker 2: you know, there's the femme fatal character, which is Lauren Hutton,

943
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:24,439
Speaker 2: and it's that thing where she's obsessed with him and

944
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:27,400
Speaker 2: she wants him to love her, but then she's always

945
00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:31,760
Speaker 2: vacillating between whether or not she can be involved with him.

946
00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:35,360
Speaker 2: And I think that the murder is kind of the

947
00:52:35,480 --> 00:52:40,879
Speaker 2: ultimate test of that, right is that she's his alibi. Right,

948
00:52:41,640 --> 00:52:44,440
Speaker 2: So if she's his alibi, she has to admit to

949
00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:48,080
Speaker 2: being involved with him. But then she's also like, but

950
00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:51,959
Speaker 2: cannot be involved with him because he's in this line

951
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:54,640
Speaker 2: of work. And maybe that's not respectable to somebody like

952
00:52:54,760 --> 00:52:56,560
Speaker 2: me who was married to a politician.

953
00:52:57,000 --> 00:52:59,440
Speaker 1: Dare I say the worst criminal? But whatever.

954
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:03,319
Speaker 2: But I gotta tell you, I'm not going to give

955
00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:09,480
Speaker 2: away the ending, but it is a real head scratcher

956
00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:12,759
Speaker 2: for me. Yeah, and knowing that this is like a

957
00:53:12,880 --> 00:53:17,600
Speaker 2: Brasonian ending, it's like a morality tale. I'm like, wow,

958
00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:20,439
Speaker 2: this is so crazy the way this ended, so I'm

959
00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:25,120
Speaker 2: curious if anybody has thoughts email us, because I'm just

960
00:53:25,160 --> 00:53:28,560
Speaker 2: sort of like, huh. Like literally, I've seen this movie twice,

961
00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:32,520
Speaker 2: and like every time I've seen it, I'm like, what

962
00:53:33,239 --> 00:53:35,040
Speaker 2: I mean, it was like a WTF moment?

963
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:37,560
Speaker 3: To be honest, well, it kind of like the ending

964
00:53:37,600 --> 00:53:40,200
Speaker 3: comes out of nowhere because and now it makes sense

965
00:53:40,239 --> 00:53:43,640
Speaker 3: if it's been like quilted onto this other movie and stolen.

966
00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:47,080
Speaker 3: Now it makes sense because it's like comes out of nowhere.

967
00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:50,399
Speaker 2: Truly, and I I can't say that I enjoy it,

968
00:53:50,600 --> 00:53:54,400
Speaker 2: but it's it's the ending that I think wraps it

969
00:53:54,520 --> 00:53:58,480
Speaker 2: up in a nice way, but it's not maybe the

970
00:53:58,520 --> 00:54:01,480
Speaker 2: realistic one or the one that I was expecting, knowing

971
00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:03,520
Speaker 2: what I know about Paul Schweder. But you know what,

972
00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:05,120
Speaker 2: who knows?

973
00:54:05,239 --> 00:54:07,640
Speaker 1: If you like, you know, that's what movies do. They

974
00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:09,360
Speaker 1: surprise and delight us.

975
00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:13,040
Speaker 2: And when it comes down to it, like we've seen

976
00:54:13,360 --> 00:54:16,960
Speaker 2: like two very different types of male sex workers in

977
00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:21,760
Speaker 2: these movies doing totally different stuff. And I can't say

978
00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:26,279
Speaker 2: that Julian as a character, I don't know. I find

979
00:54:26,560 --> 00:54:28,040
Speaker 2: it's kind of like when we talking about the Wolf

980
00:54:28,040 --> 00:54:30,480
Speaker 2: of Wall Street, where you're just like, wow, Rich people

981
00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:31,640
Speaker 2: and rich people things.

982
00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:35,080
Speaker 1: What's that like? But I don't really know if I.

983
00:54:35,040 --> 00:54:40,160
Speaker 2: Have much sympathy for him or find him. I don't

984
00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:42,320
Speaker 2: know if I'm rooting for him, do you know what

985
00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:45,640
Speaker 2: I mean? Whereas I'm rooting for Sweetback, I'm rooting.

986
00:54:46,120 --> 00:54:47,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I completely.

987
00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:50,799
Speaker 3: Agree, like I am rooting for Sweetback and I am

988
00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:55,080
Speaker 3: not rooting for Julian. And what's interesting to me about

989
00:54:55,120 --> 00:54:57,680
Speaker 3: that is that I felt like I'm watching like a

990
00:54:57,800 --> 00:55:03,320
Speaker 3: very abrasive air against smug dude. So when he gets

991
00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:06,320
Speaker 3: in trouble or he gets you know, possibly framed for murder,

992
00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:10,960
Speaker 3: and you know that, I kind of feel like, good,

993
00:55:11,360 --> 00:55:16,600
Speaker 3: you act like you're above the law already, like someone

994
00:55:16,600 --> 00:55:18,359
Speaker 3: should at least be looking into your shit?

995
00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:20,319
Speaker 1: Could you act like you are above the law?

996
00:55:20,640 --> 00:55:23,040
Speaker 2: I think that's a common criticism though of American Juggalo,

997
00:55:23,120 --> 00:55:25,440
Speaker 2: just from stuff that I've read, which is that I

998
00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:28,200
Speaker 2: don't think that Julian as a character is set up

999
00:55:28,239 --> 00:55:31,399
Speaker 2: in a way that makes you sympathetic for him when

1000
00:55:31,800 --> 00:55:35,960
Speaker 2: bad things start happening to him. And you know, sometimes

1001
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:38,840
Speaker 2: it do be like that, but I just in this case,

1002
00:55:39,040 --> 00:55:43,320
Speaker 2: like if we're gonna compare, you know, the two films

1003
00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:46,360
Speaker 2: and like who these two characters are as male sex workers,

1004
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:50,759
Speaker 2: Like I'm going, yeah, Julian's not it, and yet with

1005
00:55:50,840 --> 00:55:55,640
Speaker 2: sweet sweetbacks, badass song, you really do root for him,

1006
00:55:55,760 --> 00:55:59,759
Speaker 2: Like as this is happening, as he's being pursued, you're like, God,

1007
00:55:59,800 --> 00:56:01,839
Speaker 2: I hope he fucking makes it, and I hope that

1008
00:56:01,880 --> 00:56:04,279
Speaker 2: people understand that he's not the one that did it,

1009
00:56:04,360 --> 00:56:06,080
Speaker 2: you know, like there's more of.

1010
00:56:06,040 --> 00:56:08,520
Speaker 3: That, and that so much of his action in the

1011
00:56:08,560 --> 00:56:12,839
Speaker 3: movie is reactive and not proactive, and I think with Julian.

1012
00:56:12,560 --> 00:56:15,640
Speaker 1: It's the opposite. And he's also like he's like a hypocrite.

1013
00:56:15,719 --> 00:56:17,480
Speaker 3: Like there was one point in the in the beginning

1014
00:56:17,600 --> 00:56:22,080
Speaker 3: where he says, like Lauren Hutton's character is like, you know,

1015
00:56:22,239 --> 00:56:23,880
Speaker 3: I just want to know what it's like to be

1016
00:56:23,960 --> 00:56:25,879
Speaker 3: with you one time, and he's like, I don't do.

1017
00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:27,600
Speaker 1: That, And I'm like, bitch, you just did that.

1018
00:56:27,640 --> 00:56:30,680
Speaker 3: You went to Palm Springs for this one time, and

1019
00:56:30,760 --> 00:56:33,239
Speaker 3: now you're in a fucking frame from murder, Like what

1020
00:56:33,280 --> 00:56:34,200
Speaker 3: are you talking about?

1021
00:56:34,440 --> 00:56:35,040
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1022
00:56:35,080 --> 00:56:37,400
Speaker 2: And yeah, I mean when it comes down to it,

1023
00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:41,640
Speaker 2: like it is, I mean, this is just class on

1024
00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:45,480
Speaker 2: both sides of the spectrum, right, And you know, it's

1025
00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:46,719
Speaker 2: an interesting.

1026
00:56:46,280 --> 00:56:48,279
Speaker 1: Pair of movies to put together for this theme.

1027
00:56:48,560 --> 00:56:50,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm really glad you chose it, and I think

1028
00:56:50,560 --> 00:56:52,960
Speaker 3: I think it worked out well. Like there, this is

1029
00:56:53,080 --> 00:56:55,319
Speaker 3: yet another example of when we did We didn't know

1030
00:56:55,440 --> 00:56:58,400
Speaker 3: that there were going to be like commonalities in what

1031
00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:01,000
Speaker 3: we picked, but it really showcased theme very well.

1032
00:57:01,520 --> 00:57:03,280
Speaker 1: I love it when that happens.

1033
00:57:03,560 --> 00:57:07,680
Speaker 3: We have real quick or not take your time. We

1034
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:08,319
Speaker 3: have a.

1035
00:57:08,280 --> 00:57:09,760
Speaker 1: Question for our.

1036
00:57:12,040 --> 00:57:14,879
Speaker 3: Feel leisurely about it? What's the rush? What are we're

1037
00:57:14,880 --> 00:57:17,800
Speaker 3: all up home nowadays? We have a question for our

1038
00:57:17,840 --> 00:57:20,520
Speaker 3: resident programmer, Milly, so take it away.

1039
00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:24,520
Speaker 6: We have an email from Erica, Danielle and Milly. I

1040
00:57:24,600 --> 00:57:27,040
Speaker 6: love your podcast. The concept is so great and it's

1041
00:57:27,040 --> 00:57:28,960
Speaker 6: such a treat to be let in on your friendship,

1042
00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:32,720
Speaker 6: your humor, and your overall movie insights. So many things

1043
00:57:32,760 --> 00:57:35,840
Speaker 6: to say, but I'll just get right to my programming request. Okay,

1044
00:57:35,960 --> 00:57:39,120
Speaker 6: Almost all of my favorite films fit a category I

1045
00:57:39,240 --> 00:57:42,800
Speaker 6: like to call beech noir. Here's what I mean. The

1046
00:57:42,920 --> 00:57:46,320
Speaker 6: Night of the Iguana nineteen sixty four, The Talented Mister

1047
00:57:46,440 --> 00:57:51,280
Speaker 6: Ripley two thousand, Lovansaura nineteen sixty one, Dead Calm nineteen

1048
00:57:51,320 --> 00:57:54,760
Speaker 6: eighty nine, Knife in the Water nineteen sixty two. Anyway,

1049
00:57:54,800 --> 00:57:57,640
Speaker 6: I'm always looking for movies that would fit into that category.

1050
00:57:57,680 --> 00:57:59,160
Speaker 6: I would love to hear what you think of my

1051
00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:02,120
Speaker 6: list and hear any suggestions you might have for me.

1052
00:58:03,240 --> 00:58:08,160
Speaker 1: M thanks, I too, am a big fan of you.

1053
00:58:08,200 --> 00:58:11,040
Speaker 2: Call it beach noir, water noir, I don't know, water

1054
00:58:11,160 --> 00:58:14,440
Speaker 2: theme noir. I don't know, because you know, I think

1055
00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:20,080
Speaker 2: there is a distinction between beach noir and then noir

1056
00:58:20,120 --> 00:58:23,760
Speaker 2: that takes place on a boat, which is there's quite

1057
00:58:23,760 --> 00:58:27,120
Speaker 2: a few, quite a few at sea murders. And actually

1058
00:58:27,240 --> 00:58:30,640
Speaker 2: Dead Calm is a great movie, starring one of the

1059
00:58:30,640 --> 00:58:34,080
Speaker 2: stars of Dead Calm being Billy Zane from Titanic. I mean, hello,

1060
00:58:34,400 --> 00:58:39,480
Speaker 2: we completed the circle. So here's what I'll say about this.

1061
00:58:39,880 --> 00:58:43,800
Speaker 2: There's a movie that I love called Night Tide. It's

1062
00:58:43,800 --> 00:58:49,080
Speaker 2: from nineteen sixty one. It stars a very young, cute

1063
00:58:49,280 --> 00:58:54,000
Speaker 2: Dennis Hopper, and he plays a sailor. And it was

1064
00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:59,680
Speaker 2: directed by this director, Curtis Harrington, who was one of

1065
00:58:59,720 --> 00:59:03,040
Speaker 2: the first directors in kind of the new queer cinema

1066
00:59:03,560 --> 00:59:05,320
Speaker 2: movement or era.

1067
00:59:07,160 --> 00:59:11,400
Speaker 1: He is such an interesting director. You gotta google.

1068
00:59:11,080 --> 00:59:13,680
Speaker 2: Him and read all about him and his kind of

1069
00:59:13,760 --> 00:59:15,800
Speaker 2: like friendships with all these like.

1070
00:59:16,240 --> 00:59:20,480
Speaker 1: Kind of interesting la people.

1071
00:59:21,520 --> 00:59:23,600
Speaker 2: He was kind of a part of that whole sort

1072
00:59:23,640 --> 00:59:29,480
Speaker 2: of like Jack Parsons, Marjorie Cameron crew that followed Aleister Crowley,

1073
00:59:29,520 --> 00:59:31,480
Speaker 2: and it was it was a little witchy.

1074
00:59:31,840 --> 00:59:32,560
Speaker 1: It's kind of great.

1075
00:59:32,880 --> 00:59:36,040
Speaker 2: But so we made this movie Night Tide, which is

1076
00:59:36,160 --> 00:59:40,800
Speaker 2: essentially you know this it's it's noir in the sense

1077
00:59:40,840 --> 00:59:43,960
Speaker 2: that it has a mystery element to it, but it

1078
00:59:44,080 --> 00:59:47,640
Speaker 2: takes place on the boardwalk in Santa Monica. It's a

1079
00:59:47,800 --> 00:59:50,120
Speaker 2: it's about a woman that he meets that he falls

1080
00:59:50,120 --> 00:59:54,280
Speaker 2: in love with, who might be a mermaid, might be

1081
00:59:55,360 --> 01:00:00,680
Speaker 2: a criminal, might be like a siren, you know, from

1082
01:00:00,680 --> 01:00:04,720
Speaker 2: like a mythological.

1083
01:00:03,480 --> 01:00:06,440
Speaker 1: You know, subplot. It's really interesting.

1084
01:00:07,080 --> 01:00:10,440
Speaker 2: It's so wonderful in this like tonal way because it's

1085
01:00:10,440 --> 01:00:13,160
Speaker 2: in black and white and it takes place on.

1086
01:00:13,000 --> 01:00:16,120
Speaker 1: The beach, and it's like it's kind of dreamy, and.

1087
01:00:16,040 --> 01:00:19,240
Speaker 2: Of course because Corus Hareton is an awesome director with

1088
01:00:19,320 --> 01:00:22,240
Speaker 2: like awesome influences, it's like, you know, there's like a

1089
01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:23,240
Speaker 2: tarot card.

1090
01:00:23,080 --> 01:00:25,600
Speaker 1: Reading in it, and it's very like, you know.

1091
01:00:26,200 --> 01:00:32,400
Speaker 2: Mythical, and it's spooky and fun. So that's what I

1092
01:00:32,440 --> 01:00:35,360
Speaker 2: would recommend if you're looking for kind of a beach

1093
01:00:35,480 --> 01:00:39,040
Speaker 2: noir ish type of movie. Is Nighttide nineteen sixty one.

1094
01:00:39,080 --> 01:00:41,120
Speaker 3: I also just want to mention that one of our

1095
01:00:41,160 --> 01:00:44,000
Speaker 3: listeners wrote in and asked if we have any place

1096
01:00:44,040 --> 01:00:47,600
Speaker 3: where we list our movies for people who are hearing impaired.

1097
01:00:48,040 --> 01:00:50,200
Speaker 3: And we do have a letterbox to count, which is

1098
01:00:50,200 --> 01:00:54,120
Speaker 3: probably the best the best way to access that right away.

1099
01:00:54,600 --> 01:00:57,520
Speaker 3: But if there are any needs that we can address

1100
01:00:57,560 --> 01:00:59,560
Speaker 3: like that, or if anyone knows of any software or

1101
01:00:59,600 --> 01:01:01,520
Speaker 3: anything we can do on our end to make that

1102
01:01:01,600 --> 01:01:04,200
Speaker 3: easier for people, please write in and let us know.

1103
01:01:04,480 --> 01:01:07,480
Speaker 3: And what is our letterbox account name? Is it just

1104
01:01:07,640 --> 01:01:08,560
Speaker 3: I Saw What You Did pod?

1105
01:01:08,920 --> 01:01:13,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're just on there as the podcast. Basically, if

1106
01:01:13,080 --> 01:01:15,600
Speaker 2: you look at our account, you'll see all the films

1107
01:01:15,600 --> 01:01:19,240
Speaker 2: that we've picked. They're kind of organized by episode, and

1108
01:01:19,360 --> 01:01:23,840
Speaker 2: the date viewed is actually the date of the episode recording.

1109
01:01:23,920 --> 01:01:26,960
Speaker 2: So basically it's kind of got all that information there

1110
01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:27,760
Speaker 2: for you as well.

1111
01:01:28,080 --> 01:01:28,600
Speaker 1: Just the funk.

1112
01:01:28,840 --> 01:01:30,720
Speaker 2: I know, it's kind of seem kind of funky because

1113
01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:34,040
Speaker 2: it letterbox is essentially a film diary and people kind

1114
01:01:34,040 --> 01:01:35,360
Speaker 2: of use it in that way, and so we're just

1115
01:01:35,400 --> 01:01:37,800
Speaker 2: kind of using it as our film diary for the podcast.

1116
01:01:37,880 --> 01:01:40,040
Speaker 3: So that's awesome, and we'll put a link to it

1117
01:01:40,080 --> 01:01:43,840
Speaker 3: in this week's episode so you can see where it is.

1118
01:01:44,560 --> 01:01:47,480
Speaker 2: Cool cool, cool, and yeah, friend us on there too

1119
01:01:47,680 --> 01:01:51,000
Speaker 2: if you're if you're in those letterbox streets, be sure

1120
01:01:51,040 --> 01:01:55,880
Speaker 2: to follow us there. But I am I'm I could

1121
01:01:55,880 --> 01:01:59,760
Speaker 2: not be more pleased to ask you this question. What

1122
01:01:59,840 --> 01:02:02,560
Speaker 2: are the movies for the next episode?

1123
01:02:03,320 --> 01:02:07,760
Speaker 3: Okay, you're gonna have to guess the theme, and y'all

1124
01:02:07,800 --> 01:02:12,680
Speaker 3: are real good at that, but our movies for next

1125
01:02:12,760 --> 01:02:18,520
Speaker 3: week are shuld from nineteen eighty four and Graveyard Shift

1126
01:02:18,680 --> 01:02:21,480
Speaker 3: from nineteen ninety.

1127
01:02:24,000 --> 01:02:27,720
Speaker 2: I just love that you said should I'm so thrilled,

1128
01:02:29,440 --> 01:02:30,000
Speaker 2: So yeah, I.

1129
01:02:29,920 --> 01:02:30,640
Speaker 1: Guess the theme.

1130
01:02:31,280 --> 01:02:33,880
Speaker 2: Follow us on social if you haven't already, We're on

1131
01:02:34,080 --> 01:02:37,920
Speaker 2: I saw pod on Twitter and Instagram and the email

1132
01:02:38,000 --> 01:02:39,800
Speaker 2: address is always I Saw What you Did Pod at

1133
01:02:39,800 --> 01:02:41,040
Speaker 2: gmail dot com.

1134
01:02:41,360 --> 01:02:42,440
Speaker 1: Send us your thoughts on the.

1135
01:02:42,480 --> 01:02:47,400
Speaker 2: Endings of American Jigglo, send us your friend Liebawitz stories,

1136
01:02:47,680 --> 01:02:50,520
Speaker 2: and I guess we'll see you next time.

1137
01:02:50,720 --> 01:02:59,000
Speaker 3: See you later at liens. This has been an exactly

1138
01:02:59,080 --> 01:03:02,440
Speaker 3: right production. Producer is Laura Elizabeth Brown. Our engineer is

1139
01:03:02,440 --> 01:03:06,000
Speaker 3: Analie Nelson. Our social media assistant is Taren Maza. Our

1140
01:03:06,000 --> 01:03:09,520
Speaker 3: theme songs by Tom Bryfogel, artwork by Garrett Ross. Our

1141
01:03:09,560 --> 01:03:13,280
Speaker 3: executive producers are Georgia Hardstark, Karen Colgareth and Danielle Kramer.

1142
01:03:13,560 --> 01:03:16,600
Speaker 3: You can follow us on Instagram and Twitter at I Sawpod,

1143
01:03:16,840 --> 01:03:19,960
Speaker 3: and as always, please listen, subscribe, and leave us a

1144
01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:23,240
Speaker 3: review on Apple podcast, Stitcher, or wherever you listen