WEBVTT - 3: Underdog 0:00:00.640 --> 0:00:03.280 Hey, it's Holly. Just a quick note before we start. 0:00:03.520 --> 0:00:06.000 If you're enjoying Because the Buss Belongs to Us so far, 0:00:06.360 --> 0:00:09.480 please tell people. It makes a huge difference to us 0:00:09.520 --> 0:00:11.880 if you like, subscribe and review the show on your 0:00:11.880 --> 0:00:14.720 listening platform, and if you literally just tell your friends 0:00:14.720 --> 0:00:17.680 to listen. We are on a mission, after all, and 0:00:17.720 --> 0:00:20.000 for the sake of science, we need as many people 0:00:20.040 --> 0:00:22.040 as possible to go on this journey with us to 0:00:22.040 --> 0:00:23.640 get Bruce recognized. 0:00:23.079 --> 0:00:24.000 As a queer icon. 0:00:24.480 --> 0:00:27.720 You can do your bit too, And a producer note 0:00:27.720 --> 0:00:31.320 from me. This episode contains a discussion of homophobic verbal abuse. 0:00:31.880 --> 0:00:32.720 Take care listening. 0:00:36.560 --> 0:00:37.400 Is Bruce Camp? 0:00:38.159 --> 0:00:38.839 Yes he is. 0:00:41.200 --> 0:00:44.960 Yeah. 0:00:46.040 --> 0:00:48.680 This is episode three of Because the Bus Belongs to Us, 0:00:49.000 --> 0:00:51.640 a podcast where two nerds who are convinced that Bruce 0:00:51.640 --> 0:00:54.760 Bristeen is a queer icon spend seven episodes on a 0:00:54.800 --> 0:00:57.640 question to get everyone else on our sidetam I'm Jesse 0:00:57.920 --> 0:00:58.480 and I'm. 0:00:58.280 --> 0:01:01.000 Holly, and we are riding high of a huge win. 0:01:01.720 --> 0:01:05.360 That's right, folks, it's official, Bruce Springsteen is Camp. 0:01:05.640 --> 0:01:07.720 We have ticked off the first light on our airtight 0:01:07.800 --> 0:01:11.600 queer icon checklist that we made up an episode one. 0:01:18.120 --> 0:01:20.319 Now the checklist Item two. 0:01:20.520 --> 0:01:23.679 I'm in a mixed CD for a girlfriend I had 0:01:23.720 --> 0:01:27.200 written in SHARPI you, Me and all the stuff We're 0:01:27.280 --> 0:01:29.800 so scared of, which is the line from Tunnel of Love. 0:01:30.200 --> 0:01:33.800 This is writer and Bruce Mega fan Naomi Gordon Lebou. 0:01:33.800 --> 0:01:35.360 And I love that line. It's like the lights go 0:01:35.480 --> 0:01:37.320 out and it's just the three of us, You, Me 0:01:37.440 --> 0:01:38.800 and all the stuff We're so scared of. 0:01:41.440 --> 0:01:44.240 Naomi wrote a really seminal article for The Nation back 0:01:44.280 --> 0:01:48.320 in twenty nineteen called The Queerness of Bruce Springsteen. It 0:01:48.400 --> 0:01:50.480 was one of the first pieces of queer Bruce content 0:01:50.520 --> 0:01:52.200 that I read, aside from Holly scenes. 0:01:52.880 --> 0:01:56.080 Naomi is a wordsmith, and that's why they're are experts. 0:01:56.080 --> 0:01:56.920 For this episode. 0:01:58.320 --> 0:02:01.120 We need someone who can dive deep into lyrics and 0:02:01.200 --> 0:02:04.040 get their head around the myths and stories that Bruce tells. 0:02:04.640 --> 0:02:06.520 We caught Nami up on where We've got to you 0:02:06.520 --> 0:02:10.000 so far on our queer icons checklist. 0:02:14.440 --> 0:02:16.080 Honestly, it's going pretty well so far us so. 0:02:16.360 --> 0:02:20.640 Our first tech point there was that queer icons have 0:02:20.720 --> 0:02:24.040 to be camp and that is like an esthetic choice, 0:02:24.080 --> 0:02:26.799 but it's also this like vibe, this truth telling, this 0:02:27.000 --> 0:02:30.240 like way of being that queer people recognize. And we 0:02:30.360 --> 0:02:35.560 have just woken to some camp experts and they agree 0:02:35.560 --> 0:02:37.359 with us that Bruce is camp. 0:02:37.560 --> 0:02:39.959 I'm sure that you're ald degree to I do agree. 0:02:40.200 --> 0:02:42.960 And our next checkpoint item, which is what we wanted 0:02:42.960 --> 0:02:44.239 to talk to you about, is we need to be 0:02:44.320 --> 0:02:47.160 able to identify with them as an underdog, making them 0:02:47.160 --> 0:02:48.760 relatable to the queer experience. 0:02:49.280 --> 0:02:51.880 Yeah, I think underdogs is a great word for it. Actually, 0:02:51.880 --> 0:02:54.520 I really like that, and I also think it's a 0:02:54.520 --> 0:02:55.359 great word for Bruce. 0:02:56.040 --> 0:02:58.880 And there you have it, Naomi, god and Marble says, 0:02:58.880 --> 0:03:01.079 Bruce is an underdog. 0:03:01.480 --> 0:03:03.480 Thank you for listening to episode three because the bust 0:03:03.480 --> 0:03:05.120 alongst us. 0:03:06.480 --> 0:03:07.520 Okay, we're joking. 0:03:08.120 --> 0:03:11.240 We are professional queers in Stem. We're gonna need more 0:03:11.240 --> 0:03:13.560 evidence than that to see if Bruce really can be 0:03:13.600 --> 0:03:14.639 seen as an underdog. 0:03:15.080 --> 0:03:25.359 That's after the break, we're back. 0:03:27.080 --> 0:03:29.720 Talking to Naomi Gordon leb about the second item on 0:03:29.800 --> 0:03:32.839 our mate Bruce being seen a queer icon checklist? Can 0:03:32.880 --> 0:03:37.960 he be seen as an underdog? Since Naomi was a kid, 0:03:38.160 --> 0:03:41.120 they found themes in Bruce's music that felt relatable to 0:03:41.160 --> 0:03:42.640 their struggles as a queer person. 0:03:43.680 --> 0:03:48.520 I think I was always drawn to his gender admired it, 0:03:48.640 --> 0:03:52.440 related to it, like wanted to emulate it, and he 0:03:52.600 --> 0:03:55.440 just like had the exact aesthetic that I wanted for 0:03:55.560 --> 0:03:58.520 myself as a kid who was like a mask kid, 0:03:58.640 --> 0:04:03.640 like a kid who always felt like a boy. Even 0:04:03.720 --> 0:04:06.160 though we think of him, or I think of him, 0:04:06.160 --> 0:04:07.560 and I think a lot of people think of him 0:04:07.600 --> 0:04:11.080 as this kind of like icon of masculinity. Actually, so 0:04:11.200 --> 0:04:15.040 much of his music is about having a pretty complicated 0:04:15.080 --> 0:04:19.640 relationship to masculinity and struggling with it and feeling like 0:04:19.800 --> 0:04:22.599 never enough or never the right kind of masculine, or 0:04:22.720 --> 0:04:28.960 like feeling not right in some way. Have you guys 0:04:28.960 --> 0:04:31.080 heard the live recording of The River that's like twelve 0:04:31.080 --> 0:04:35.640 minutes long where he talks about his dad? Yes, yeah, 0:04:35.680 --> 0:04:40.599 I haven't, Oh Jesse, you gotta listen to okay. And 0:04:40.640 --> 0:04:43.880 there's like a twelve minute long or fourteen minute long whatever, 0:04:44.720 --> 0:04:48.719 live recording of the River, And during it he does 0:04:48.760 --> 0:04:50.560 the thing that he often does, which is he tells 0:04:50.680 --> 0:04:53.080 this long story that sounds very off the cuff, but 0:04:53.080 --> 0:04:57.240 I think it's actually probably pretty practiced, and it's a 0:04:57.279 --> 0:05:01.960 story about his dad. He talks about how his dad 0:05:02.080 --> 0:05:04.040 was always on his case and always giving him a 0:05:04.080 --> 0:05:08.480 really hard time about his hair being long, or saying 0:05:08.480 --> 0:05:10.760 to him, when the army gets you, they're going to 0:05:10.800 --> 0:05:11.640 make a man out of you. 0:05:15.720 --> 0:05:19.320 These beautifully crafted, intimate reflections are a big part of 0:05:19.320 --> 0:05:23.360 Bruce's live shows. I've seen him live so many times 0:05:23.360 --> 0:05:25.920 at this point that stories like this are really familiar 0:05:26.000 --> 0:05:28.599 to me. By my seventh show of The Wrecking Bottle, 0:05:28.720 --> 0:05:31.200 I could almost talk along with him like I'd learned 0:05:31.200 --> 0:05:35.239 these stories as lyrics. But it doesn't matter. The emotion 0:05:35.600 --> 0:05:39.000 is always there. You feel like the luckiest person in 0:05:39.040 --> 0:05:42.800 the world to hear about Bruce's internal life. The story 0:05:42.839 --> 0:05:45.680 he tells in this particular live recording of the River 0:05:46.040 --> 0:05:48.599 goes pretty deep into the struggles he had with his 0:05:48.680 --> 0:05:50.680 dad's expectations of masculinity. 0:05:51.200 --> 0:05:56.640 It's about him being an underdog right, not being able 0:05:56.680 --> 0:06:01.000 to live up to whatever the expectations are of him. Which, 0:06:01.040 --> 0:06:03.599 really I think that really shows is that, of course 0:06:03.760 --> 0:06:06.159 all of these things are constructed, and ultimately this like 0:06:06.240 --> 0:06:11.240 myth in our culture that masculinity or femininity or any 0:06:11.320 --> 0:06:14.240 like traditional gender rules or gender expressions are kind of 0:06:14.320 --> 0:06:19.560 just like biological and endemic to who we are. His 0:06:19.839 --> 0:06:22.320 music is in some ways about like what a falsehood 0:06:22.320 --> 0:06:24.680 that is right, which is very queer. 0:06:25.400 --> 0:06:27.680 Yeah, in some ways, you know, you've got like AT's 0:06:27.720 --> 0:06:30.239 muscle Breece and you've got these like esthetics and things. 0:06:30.640 --> 0:06:33.039 But then he sings a song like real Man. The 0:06:33.120 --> 0:06:34.760 chorus of real Man is He's that you can be 0:06:34.880 --> 0:06:36.920 on your chest, well any monkey can, but you make 0:06:36.920 --> 0:06:38.839 me feel like a real man. He's like, my deep 0:06:38.920 --> 0:06:41.200 romantic will love for you. It's whats my gender? 0:06:43.240 --> 0:06:46.159 And I find that really really comforting as someone who's 0:06:46.320 --> 0:06:47.840 trying to navigate what are those things? 0:06:47.880 --> 0:06:48.279 I think? 0:06:48.480 --> 0:06:52.640 Yeah, I think that Bruce. I mean, I'm not gonna 0:06:52.680 --> 0:06:55.320 say he's like some kind of perfect feminist, and frankly, 0:06:55.360 --> 0:06:59.400 I just don't really know what his feminist politics are like. 0:06:59.480 --> 0:07:02.039 But I do think he's critical to some extent of 0:07:02.120 --> 0:07:05.960 masculinity and I appreciate that, Like I appreciate the ways 0:07:05.960 --> 0:07:08.480 that he talks about the taboo and kind of stigma 0:07:08.600 --> 0:07:11.960 around mental health struggles for men, Like I appreciate how 0:07:12.000 --> 0:07:14.600 honest and transparent he is about his mental health and 0:07:14.640 --> 0:07:15.040 his book. 0:07:18.920 --> 0:07:22.200 If we're looking for a sense of struggle from Bruce, something. 0:07:21.880 --> 0:07:24.200 That we can look to and think he's been through 0:07:24.200 --> 0:07:27.160 stuff like I've been through and he survived, so I 0:07:27.200 --> 0:07:30.680 will too. His relationship to masculinity could be one of 0:07:30.680 --> 0:07:31.320 those things. 0:07:33.080 --> 0:07:34.040 I want to believe that. 0:07:34.000 --> 0:07:36.880 Bruce is aware of masculinity as a thing that's separate 0:07:36.920 --> 0:07:40.240 from sexual gender and the complicated ways that plays out 0:07:40.560 --> 0:07:42.600 in a world that has expectations for you based on 0:07:42.640 --> 0:07:46.680 the gender you're assigned at birth. So that plus his 0:07:46.760 --> 0:07:49.520 intentional vulnerability around his own emotions. 0:07:49.160 --> 0:07:51.800 Feels like the kind of struggle we could see ourselves in. 0:07:55.000 --> 0:07:57.920 One of the ways that I see him singing about 0:07:57.920 --> 0:08:00.280 being an underdog in ways that we can kind of 0:08:00.320 --> 0:08:03.800 rude for him is he's singing about working people in 0:08:03.800 --> 0:08:07.640 the United States and like the great myths is the 0:08:07.680 --> 0:08:08.800 American Dream. 0:08:09.360 --> 0:08:11.760 We were just talking about Bruce's speech in the live 0:08:11.880 --> 0:08:14.280 version of the River, but the lyrics in the song 0:08:14.320 --> 0:08:17.560 itself are a great example of Bruce's writing on class. 0:08:18.560 --> 0:08:22.360 First walled about his sister, really and it's about these 0:08:22.480 --> 0:08:24.400 two people who get married and they're really in love 0:08:24.480 --> 0:08:29.280 and then like all the difficulties of real life as 0:08:29.320 --> 0:08:32.400 a working class person, kind of like seep in. 0:08:32.880 --> 0:08:35.480 The couple in the song grew up with big dreams 0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:38.040 for their lives, which are quickly dashed when the girl 0:08:38.120 --> 0:08:41.240 ends up pregnant while she's still at school. They marry young, 0:08:41.520 --> 0:08:44.559 and the guy spends his life working hard physical jobs, 0:08:44.840 --> 0:08:46.960 struggling to earn enough to support his family. 0:08:47.800 --> 0:08:52.960 Romance becomes harder as like economic struggle becomes more real. 0:08:54.679 --> 0:08:56.880 The guy in the river keeps comparing the way he 0:08:56.920 --> 0:09:00.000 imagined his life would go and the much more challenging 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:03.320 reality that he's ended up with. That's pretending to not 0:09:03.360 --> 0:09:06.720 remember those dreams and his wife pretends not to care. 0:09:08.480 --> 0:09:11.240 You can really imagine this couple sitting next to each 0:09:11.240 --> 0:09:15.160 other on the sofa watching TV, silently holding their disappointments 0:09:15.200 --> 0:09:24.160 with the circumstances life has dealt them. 0:09:25.400 --> 0:09:28.559 He sings, is a dream a lie that don't come true? 0:09:29.040 --> 0:09:32.959 Or is it something worse? So many of Bruce's songs 0:09:33.000 --> 0:09:36.840 are about imagining another better life as possible dreams are 0:09:36.880 --> 0:09:40.079 running away and living a life of adventure and romance, 0:09:40.840 --> 0:09:44.240 and this line really stands out apart from those other songs. 0:09:44.800 --> 0:09:48.440 It's about grieving missed opportunities and the pain of even 0:09:48.520 --> 0:09:50.240 letting yourself want something more. 0:09:51.000 --> 0:09:55.000 But the refrain of the song and the chorus is 0:09:55.080 --> 0:09:57.520 all about sort of that there's still this element of 0:09:57.679 --> 0:09:59.160 romance there. 0:10:00.800 --> 0:10:03.120 The refrain of the song is about the couple going 0:10:03.160 --> 0:10:05.079 down to the river they used to swim in when 0:10:05.120 --> 0:10:08.040 they were young and first in love. Even when they're 0:10:08.040 --> 0:10:11.600 older and disillusioned, even when the river is dry, the 0:10:11.679 --> 0:10:14.439 couple keep returning to this place where once they felt 0:10:14.440 --> 0:10:15.080 free together. 0:10:16.320 --> 0:10:20.280 I think that that feeling of like kind of magic 0:10:20.320 --> 0:10:23.480 between you and another person, finding ways to make it 0:10:23.520 --> 0:10:26.000 possible even when things are really hard and are not 0:10:27.160 --> 0:10:29.400 they don't match the script we've been given for what 0:10:29.480 --> 0:10:33.160 romance looks like, that where everything's perfect and easy. I 0:10:33.200 --> 0:10:37.600 think that's a really distinctly queer feeling too, and maybe 0:10:37.600 --> 0:10:38.400 that's partly why I. 0:10:38.320 --> 0:10:39.200 Connected with that song. 0:10:41.280 --> 0:10:46.880 This comes up again and another of Naomi's favorite Bruce songs. 0:10:45.480 --> 0:10:49.840 Tougher than the Rest, is infurious song about how Bruce 0:10:49.960 --> 0:10:54.360 is not like all these other boyfriends that someone could have. 0:10:54.640 --> 0:10:58.040 The song because some girls they want a handsome damn 0:10:58.640 --> 0:11:01.680 or some good looking jar on their arms. Some girls 0:11:01.720 --> 0:11:04.880 like a sweet, talking room ya. Bruce is none of 0:11:04.960 --> 0:11:12.040 those things, but he's tough. The song is not like 0:11:12.120 --> 0:11:13.800 I'm tough, I'll protect you. 0:11:14.679 --> 0:11:18.800 He's saying I'm tough I'm here for the real shit, 0:11:18.960 --> 0:11:21.760 Like I'm here to go through hard things with you. 0:11:23.800 --> 0:11:26.840 Life is hard, Like there are hard things, and like 0:11:28.040 --> 0:11:31.800 I'm someone who can walk beside you through them. 0:11:32.000 --> 0:11:34.400 I like that because it's not like a typical strength 0:11:34.440 --> 0:11:37.600 of like I I'll protect you, like, don't worry about this, 0:11:37.679 --> 0:11:42.160 It's gonna be fine. It's like a strength through vulnerability. 0:11:42.280 --> 0:11:45.120 He's never he never shies away from vulnerability. He's like 0:11:45.280 --> 0:11:48.600 very open to like this scares me. I'm faithful of this. 0:11:48.720 --> 0:11:51.280 I don't know what's around the corner, but let's let's 0:11:51.280 --> 0:11:51.880 go together. 0:11:53.200 --> 0:11:53.440 Yeah. 0:11:53.480 --> 0:11:54.280 I love that, Holly. 0:11:54.320 --> 0:11:56.160 I love the way but that that's exactly right. 0:11:56.240 --> 0:11:59.600 He's not afraid to talk about being afraid and this 0:12:00.160 --> 0:12:03.240 feeling of like I don't know what's around the corner, 0:12:03.240 --> 0:12:05.880 but we've got each other. We're gonna look around the 0:12:05.880 --> 0:12:09.520 corner together. I think of it as a really queer 0:12:09.559 --> 0:12:10.120 thing too. 0:12:11.760 --> 0:12:14.240 Naomi felt something similar to this. One night when they 0:12:14.240 --> 0:12:16.600 were in college. They were sitting out in the porch 0:12:16.640 --> 0:12:18.280 with their brand new girlfriend. 0:12:18.280 --> 0:12:20.280 Making out and just being super happy and like totally 0:12:20.320 --> 0:12:22.640 oblivious to the world around us, just wrapped up in 0:12:22.679 --> 0:12:23.280 each other. 0:12:23.800 --> 0:12:30.160 And then this Copp was a full of drunk men. 0:12:29.600 --> 0:12:31.959 And shine this like bright flashlight out of their window 0:12:33.000 --> 0:12:34.160 so that we couldn't see them. 0:12:34.920 --> 0:12:37.840 They started shouting a bunch of grim threatening things at 0:12:37.920 --> 0:12:39.080 Naomi and their partner. 0:12:40.080 --> 0:12:42.400 She needs a real man, like come over her and 0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:44.160 I'm gonna show you what a real dick can do, 0:12:44.320 --> 0:12:47.960 like that kind of thing. And it was horrible. Obviously, 0:12:48.000 --> 0:12:51.600 it was like terrifying and upsetting, but it also had 0:12:51.640 --> 0:12:54.920 this thing of like disrupting this moment of just like 0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:56.160 blisp between us. 0:12:57.880 --> 0:13:02.800 This is still so often part of queer dating, especially 0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:06.760 when you're also trans also POC. Part of your love 0:13:06.800 --> 0:13:09.679 story is this low level threat of violence from the public. 0:13:12.800 --> 0:13:17.680 We know that there are people and places in the 0:13:17.720 --> 0:13:22.920 world that are hostile to us, but we are together 0:13:22.960 --> 0:13:25.360 in it. And I feel like that is a kind 0:13:25.400 --> 0:13:28.400 of intimacy that is wrapped up in being a queer person. 0:13:32.080 --> 0:13:34.600 I'm thinking of I'm on fire when he talks about 0:13:34.760 --> 0:13:38.040 waking up, uh freight train running through the middle of 0:13:38.040 --> 0:13:43.880 his head. Yeah, he's not singing about queerness, but I 0:13:43.880 --> 0:13:46.920 think this feeling of like a freight train running through 0:13:46.960 --> 0:13:48.560 the middle of your head, this feeling of like there's 0:13:48.559 --> 0:13:53.640 something that's so achy and so insistent that it wakes 0:13:53.640 --> 0:13:55.839 you up in the middle of the night a certain 0:13:55.920 --> 0:14:00.680 kind of pain. It is like very real to me 0:14:01.120 --> 0:14:01.880 and very queer. 0:14:02.160 --> 0:14:06.000 Also, he's just so fucking emo, Like that imagery is 0:14:06.200 --> 0:14:09.360 so like he can tell. It's almost like he's a thet, 0:14:09.400 --> 0:14:10.880 a nerd or something, you know what I mean. It's 0:14:10.920 --> 0:14:12.680 just like so over the top imagery. 0:14:13.760 --> 0:14:17.200 It's so true. He's so emo. I love that description 0:14:17.280 --> 0:14:19.960 of Bruce. He's so emo. It's true, he really is. 0:14:22.960 --> 0:14:25.320 Sometimes I do worry that loneliness is like the ultimate 0:14:25.400 --> 0:14:29.480 queer feeling really paints into a corners, just like that's 0:14:29.480 --> 0:14:31.320 how fait, We're just doomed to be lonely. But it's 0:14:31.360 --> 0:14:34.720 a different type of loneliness. It's that disconnected like I 0:14:34.800 --> 0:14:36.880 need my people, I need a future, I need hoop, 0:14:36.960 --> 0:14:39.359 I need healthcare, or needs somebody. 0:14:38.960 --> 0:14:41.240 Who gets what this is. Like, it's a. 0:14:41.240 --> 0:14:45.480 Real physical like, oh, I feel like I'm torn away 0:14:45.560 --> 0:14:46.400 from something. 0:14:46.760 --> 0:14:48.880 That is the other side of Bruce's music as I 0:14:48.880 --> 0:14:52.880 feel like he expresses this fundamental yearning, but he also 0:14:52.920 --> 0:14:55.280 there's always a sort of hint of like, but there's 0:14:55.320 --> 0:14:58.760 something else out there for us, you know. It's very beautiful, 0:14:59.640 --> 0:15:06.760 and I think classic underdoc I would say. 0:15:07.880 --> 0:15:11.280 Okay, so in terms of our chatlist, we're looking pretty good. 0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:14.880 Naomi definitely thinks there are struggles in Bruce's stories that 0:15:14.960 --> 0:15:17.160 feel relatable to the queer experience. 0:15:17.720 --> 0:15:21.960 But and forgive me for saying this, who is Bruce 0:15:21.960 --> 0:15:25.800 brings Seen which Bruce Bringsteen are we talking about here? 0:15:26.600 --> 0:15:29.480 Some of Bruce's songs are about him, but sometimes he's 0:15:29.480 --> 0:15:31.920 singing it from the perspective of a character he's made up. 0:15:32.360 --> 0:15:34.600 We can definitely relate to lots of different struggles in 0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:37.560 the lyrics of his songs. But what about Bruce the 0:15:37.560 --> 0:15:38.320 man himself? 0:15:39.040 --> 0:15:53.400 That's next, Holly Jesse, because the boss belongs to us. 0:15:55.880 --> 0:15:58.680 Before the Break, Naomi made a strong argument for a 0:15:58.720 --> 0:16:01.120 bunch of themes in Bruce's song and the stories he 0:16:01.240 --> 0:16:05.360 tells being relatable to the queer experience, and Holly made 0:16:05.360 --> 0:16:07.400 the case that he's an emo, and both of those 0:16:07.440 --> 0:16:08.600 things are important entry. 0:16:09.560 --> 0:16:13.000 But we're still not quite satisfied in our agenda point 0:16:13.400 --> 0:16:17.240 underdog status right now, it's hard to separate the man 0:16:17.280 --> 0:16:20.640 from the music. Is Bruce an underdog or is it 0:16:20.760 --> 0:16:23.880 just the characters in his songs? Does that even matter 0:16:23.960 --> 0:16:26.760 if we can take our own meanings from them. 0:16:27.040 --> 0:16:29.360 Early on, I knew I had a bad desire from 0:16:29.360 --> 0:16:32.040 bailing my fists into my eyes and blasting thunder road. 0:16:33.080 --> 0:16:35.560 In Bruce, I found a safer masculinity, a weight of 0:16:35.680 --> 0:16:39.400 place to put that longing, a boyhood. You're not mad 0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:42.520 enough for me to hate woman enough for kissing. This 0:16:42.680 --> 0:16:45.400 yearning inspired a move across the sea to set free 0:16:45.440 --> 0:16:50.080 that bad desire. I changed my clothes, my hair, my face, 0:16:50.920 --> 0:16:53.720 and somewhere I met a similar heart who shared that 0:16:53.760 --> 0:16:57.520 bad desire. And sometimes weel it with our four heads 0:16:57.560 --> 0:16:58.160 pressed together. 0:17:03.520 --> 0:17:06.639 That's one of my friends, Lex reading a Bruce Springsteen 0:17:06.720 --> 0:17:10.800 inspired love poem that they wrote for their partner Legs. 0:17:11.080 --> 0:17:13.679 Sometimes we yell it with our four heads pressed together. 0:17:14.200 --> 0:17:16.480 I feel that so much in my little heart. 0:17:17.840 --> 0:17:20.040 Lex is another of my friends that I met through 0:17:20.119 --> 0:17:24.159 being queers who love Bruce Springsteen. They actually live in 0:17:24.200 --> 0:17:28.439 New Jersey in Asbury Park. Every day they walk around 0:17:28.520 --> 0:17:30.800 on the same street that Bruce has walked on a 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:33.560 million times, And. 0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:36.960 Since Bruce Springsteen is of course from New Jersey, we 0:17:37.040 --> 0:17:39.199 needed a person on the ground who could take us 0:17:39.240 --> 0:17:43.240 around Bruce's home to to understand where he came from. 0:17:43.480 --> 0:17:47.040 Our exec producer, Jasmine JT. Green went to visit Lex 0:17:47.160 --> 0:17:48.960 at their flat in Asbury Park. 0:17:53.520 --> 0:17:54.560 High Works. 0:17:54.920 --> 0:18:03.240 Good to see her too. It's beautiful, there's so much stuff. 0:18:03.760 --> 0:18:06.360 Lex moved to Asbury Park partly because they love Bruce 0:18:06.359 --> 0:18:09.119 Springsteen so much. They were born in New York but 0:18:09.200 --> 0:18:11.840 grew up in England. They'd visit New Jersey as a 0:18:11.840 --> 0:18:14.719 teenager and always just vibed with the culture of it. 0:18:15.119 --> 0:18:21.760 Michael Maca, Romancebury, Springsteen, the Sopranos, Weird New Jersey, the magazine. 0:18:22.720 --> 0:18:26.920 This state has everything to offer. You've got mountains, beach, 0:18:27.119 --> 0:18:30.080 farmland city. If you want it, it's got it, and 0:18:30.119 --> 0:18:33.480 it's got people that are incredibly honest. I just fell 0:18:33.480 --> 0:18:36.640 in love with it. Weirdly, it just became a goal 0:18:36.680 --> 0:18:39.720 to move here. So when the opportunity arose, I thought, 0:18:40.200 --> 0:18:43.560 let's do it. That's what brought me to New Jersey, 0:18:44.119 --> 0:18:46.720 almost like a fandom magic, Like I was just obsessed 0:18:46.760 --> 0:18:53.960 with it. New Jersey, specifically Asbury Park, was the space 0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:56.000 that I was able to start the medicalized side of 0:18:56.000 --> 0:18:56.639 my transition. 0:18:57.640 --> 0:18:59.720 And then from being here for it will be my 0:18:59.720 --> 0:19:00.400 fish year. 0:19:01.280 --> 0:19:03.920 You know, I've found myself and I've grown from being 0:19:03.960 --> 0:19:08.600 this very scared human being, scared and shy human being 0:19:08.640 --> 0:19:13.240 into I'm still shy, but I'm not scared anymore. Like 0:19:13.320 --> 0:19:15.520 I'm living as myself, and I don't think I could 0:19:15.520 --> 0:19:17.240 have achieved that in any other state. 0:19:17.440 --> 0:19:21.800 Alongside the culture that I get, it was with. 0:19:21.760 --> 0:19:24.240 Bruce's music that when I first arrived, I thought I'd 0:19:24.240 --> 0:19:28.080 assimilate into straight culture, which is. 0:19:28.920 --> 0:19:31.080 Which is such a joke now considering. 0:19:32.240 --> 0:19:35.479 But it's also with Bruce how I strengthened a lot 0:19:35.480 --> 0:19:41.280 of my queer relationships. He's one of us folx. 0:19:41.560 --> 0:19:45.000 The myth and folklore of Bruce Springsteen is totally bound 0:19:45.080 --> 0:19:47.840 up with the myth and folklore of New Jersey itself. 0:19:48.560 --> 0:19:51.000 New Jersey is an underdog in its own right. 0:19:51.800 --> 0:19:53.680 People are horrible about this state. 0:19:53.840 --> 0:19:56.720 They are negligent towards the art that comes out of it, 0:19:57.040 --> 0:19:58.520 the people that come out of it. 0:19:58.520 --> 0:20:01.080 It's almost like a throwaway for some folks. 0:20:02.280 --> 0:20:05.240 And that's why Bruce, I think, is such an important 0:20:05.800 --> 0:20:09.280 icon for this state. He's been able to shine a 0:20:09.359 --> 0:20:12.640 light into a space that's usually ignored or just sort 0:20:12.640 --> 0:20:13.520 of like thrown away. 0:20:15.680 --> 0:20:18.240 Lexic Jasmine on a tour of some of their Bruce 0:20:18.240 --> 0:20:19.360 Bits of New Jersey. 0:20:20.840 --> 0:20:24.480 They started at Convention Hall, a big exhibition center on 0:20:24.560 --> 0:20:26.040 the boardwalk in Osbury Park. 0:20:27.600 --> 0:20:29.480 I love this building because it's old, and there's not 0:20:29.520 --> 0:20:34.280 that many old buildings that have been kept quite like this. 0:20:34.720 --> 0:20:36.119 It's looking a little bit worse for wear, but it's 0:20:36.119 --> 0:20:37.200 still got a lot of character. 0:20:38.480 --> 0:20:40.359 I think, like for me, it feels like an old 0:20:40.440 --> 0:20:42.560 train station, is what it looks like. 0:20:42.680 --> 0:20:45.040 It feels like it does emulate a train station, but 0:20:45.080 --> 0:20:47.959 it is just it is just a space with bars 0:20:48.080 --> 0:20:50.879 as a theater and then a hall as well. 0:20:53.240 --> 0:20:56.480 Convention Hall hosted the premiere of Blinded by the Lights, 0:20:57.119 --> 0:21:00.720 a film based on the memoir of journalist Sarfresmunzo, who 0:21:00.800 --> 0:21:03.320 moved to England at three years old from Pakistan in 0:21:03.400 --> 0:21:06.960 nineteen seventy four. As a teenager in a very white 0:21:06.960 --> 0:21:10.240 neighborhood in the late eighties, sar Forrest found meaning in 0:21:10.320 --> 0:21:14.879 Bruce Springsteen's music. On the day of the premiere, Lex 0:21:15.000 --> 0:21:20.480 was working at a soap shot inside Convention Hall that evening. 0:21:20.680 --> 0:21:23.119 I was just doing my job and I started to 0:21:23.160 --> 0:21:27.359 hear people yelling Bruce, like just yelling Bruce. And I 0:21:27.359 --> 0:21:29.840 don't know if you've heard more than fifty people say 0:21:29.840 --> 0:21:30.560 the same name. 0:21:30.960 --> 0:21:32.080 It's pretty jarring. 0:21:32.920 --> 0:21:35.200 So I ran outside the shop to see what was 0:21:35.240 --> 0:21:37.480 going on, and it turned out that he had actually 0:21:37.560 --> 0:21:40.399 turned up for this premiere. And I stood on a 0:21:40.440 --> 0:21:43.919 box and I cried like old white men cry at 0:21:43.920 --> 0:21:47.440 football whilst I looked at this man walk in to 0:21:47.480 --> 0:21:49.960 see his film in the city that loves him so much. 0:21:50.480 --> 0:21:53.240 And then after the screening he walked straight across and 0:21:53.280 --> 0:21:56.320 did a small show in the hall opposite, and it 0:21:56.400 --> 0:21:57.240 was a moment. 0:21:56.960 --> 0:21:59.040 Of just pure bliss. 0:21:59.720 --> 0:22:01.879 This person that I'd made up to be this like 0:22:02.080 --> 0:22:06.600 myth this gender marker almost for me like this, like yeah, 0:22:06.680 --> 0:22:09.440