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Speaker 1: It is day one of the trial of former officer

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Speaker 1: Derek Chauvin. If that name does not ring a bell,

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Speaker 1: maybe the name mister George Floyd will ring a bell.

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Speaker 1: How did it get here? As we wait for trial

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Speaker 1: to begin, still wondering how we ended up in this scenario.

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Speaker 1: First of all, take a listen to this. For thirty

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Speaker 1: one years, Cut Foods has been a part of this

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Speaker 1: South Minneapolis community. We don't just work in that community.

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Speaker 1: That is our community. We know the community. It's a

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Speaker 1: vibe that is unmatched to another community. It's the best

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Speaker 1: thing that's happened to our family. The family owned business

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Speaker 1: has come under fire after a phone call to police

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Speaker 1: about the passing of a counterfeit twenty our bill. The

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Speaker 1: staff that called the police followed protocol when you identified

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Speaker 1: the bill is fake. The patron was out of the

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Speaker 1: establishment when the police arrived. He was outside of the establishment,

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Speaker 1: which normally never takes place while he was still there,

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Speaker 1: We're not sure. Most of the time, when patrons give

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Speaker 1: us a counterfeit bill, they don't even know it's fake.

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Speaker 1: So when the police are called, there's no crime being committed.

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Speaker 1: They just want to know where they got it from

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Speaker 1: and that's usually what takes place. I don't understand why

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Speaker 1: Cup Foods came under fire there in Minneapolis for following

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Speaker 1: protocol when they get fake money. You're hearing our friend

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Speaker 1: at w CCO CBS four that's Rez Chapman. But take

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Speaker 1: a listen to this our friends at Fox nine k MSP.

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Speaker 1: The initial nine one one call about a forgery in

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Speaker 1: progress came in at eight o two Monday evening. Two

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Speaker 1: officers walk across the street and approach opposite sides of

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Speaker 1: the vehicle, which already had at least one door open.

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Speaker 1: The officer on the passenger side shining a flashlight in

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Speaker 1: the suv as a man gets out. At that same time,

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Speaker 1: George Floyd and one of the other office on the

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Speaker 1: driver's side begins to visibly struggle and the other officer

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Speaker 1: comes to assist. Meanwhile, the man in the front passenger

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Speaker 1: seat and a woman in the backseat exit the vehicle.

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Speaker 1: At this point, Floyd is clearly cuffed and walked away

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Speaker 1: from the suv and seated on the sidewalk, just as

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Speaker 1: a park Police vehicle pulls up to assist. Through body

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Speaker 1: camera footage from the park Police, we see officers taking

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Speaker 1: notes talking with witnesses and things appear to be calm

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Speaker 1: and routine. So I think at this juncture everybody agrees

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Speaker 1: on the fact. So far the scene is calm and

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Speaker 1: quote routine that quickly changes. Take a listen to this

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Speaker 1: bodycam footage is many. Let me see your on their hand,

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Speaker 1: both hands. Put your hands off right now, let me

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Speaker 1: see your on our hands. What do we do? Put

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Speaker 1: your hand off there, put your hand off class, keep

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Speaker 1: your hands in the wheel, the sacking hands in the wheel.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Waltz is in the car. I'm so sorry. God.

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Speaker 1: Dang man, man, I got I got shot the same

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Speaker 1: way as I was before. Okay, Well, when I say

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Speaker 1: let me see your hands, you put your hands off.

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Speaker 1: He got them. Dangn man, put your hands on top

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Speaker 1: of your head. You are hearing bodycam footage as officer

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Speaker 1: Lane approaches the vehicle. Man inside. They get mister Floyd

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Speaker 1: out of the car. Still no incident. Everything's fine. Listen

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Speaker 1: to more of that bodycam footage. Now not moving your back,

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Speaker 1: then the floor. Hey, you come back, stay in the car.

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Speaker 1: Stop resisting massage. That's who man. Stand up, please please, man,

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Speaker 1: stand up, stand up. I come on, walk with me.

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Speaker 1: Let's walk with me. Just walk with men. Stand up

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Speaker 1: like this, stand off, Come on, I want We're trying

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Speaker 1: to get out of the street. Here. She don't get

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Speaker 1: hit by a car. Man, take a set down for

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Speaker 1: Thank you man, Thank you Sit down, thank you man.

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Speaker 1: Sit all the way down. Let's I will a man.

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Speaker 1: He man, get an idea on you. I'm going to home,

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Speaker 1: all right. What's your name? George? George Hood period Floyd.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what's going How does everything so wrong? Today?

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Speaker 1: Day one of the trial of officer Derek Chauvin with

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Speaker 1: me an all star panel to try and make sense

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Speaker 1: of what's happening right now in a court of law

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Speaker 1: with me veteran trial lawyer joining me out of the

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Speaker 1: New York jurisdiction. Jason Oceans Police psychologist, adjunct faculty Saint

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Speaker 1: Leo University, author of practical recommendations to help stop officers suicide.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Jerry Krausen, doctor Tim and Gallagher, and medical examiner

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Speaker 1: for the State of Florida. You can find him at

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Speaker 1: pathcaremd dot com. Karen Smith for expert Lecturer, University Florida

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Speaker 1: and host of Shattered Souls podcast at Karen's Forensic but

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Speaker 1: first to Anjenette Levy, Emmy nominated reporter and anchor, and

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Speaker 1: you can find her on Twitter at Anjanette five. Antenette Levy,

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Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. Everything quickly degenerated from there,

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Speaker 1: But let me fast forward for one moment. What's happening

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Speaker 1: right now out in the courthouse. Nancy, thanks so much

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Speaker 1: for having me. Earlier today, the Reverend Al Sharpton and

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Speaker 1: Ben Crump held a press conference. They kneeled for eight

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Speaker 1: minutes and forty six seconds. Ben Crump said this morning

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Speaker 1: that this is not a difficult case. Obviously, the defense

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Speaker 1: disagrees with that and believes that George Floyd died of

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Speaker 1: a Fennel overdose and some pre existing heart issues. They're

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Speaker 1: going to argue that with the actual cause of death

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Speaker 1: and not Derek Chauvin's knee on George Floyd's neck. So

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Speaker 1: opening statements begin, and we are going to hear both

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Speaker 1: sides lay out their cases really for the world very quickly.

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Speaker 1: To doctor Tim Gallagher, the medical examiner for the State

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Speaker 1: of Florida. Doctor Gallagher, Derek Chauvin is on video holding

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Speaker 1: his knee and to George Floyd's neck to now say

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Speaker 1: Floyd died of a Fennel o d in pre existing conditions.

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Speaker 1: Is that's saying like, I died of asthma because my

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Speaker 1: house burned down with me asleep inside. I mean, am

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Speaker 1: I wrong? I mean, what can you tell me about

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Speaker 1: this alleged fentanyl OD Was that a contributing factor? But

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Speaker 1: this is a criminal case. Hold on Jason Notion's veteran

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Speaker 1: trial lawyer. In a civil case, for instance, you and

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Speaker 1: I have a car crash and I ran a red light,

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Speaker 1: but you were going eighty five mph in a thirty

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Speaker 1: five mile zone. So the jury in comparative jurisdictions compares

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Speaker 1: who's at fault and say you're a forty percent wrong,

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Speaker 1: I'm sixty percent wrong. That's how they come up with

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Speaker 1: a money verdict. But this is criminal law doesn't work

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Speaker 1: like that, No, it doesn't reasonable doubt and things that

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Speaker 1: you use as defense counsel to try and move the

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Speaker 1: story versus you know, let's say, in the OJ trial,

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Speaker 1: simpically found liable much higher you much much lower standard

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Speaker 1: than a criminal case where liberty is at stake. So

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Speaker 1: as you're asking doctor Tim and getting into the talks

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Speaker 1: report and getting into the you know, maybe some of

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Speaker 1: the ligature marks perhaps around the neck, and looking at

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Speaker 1: the Emmy's report for any broken bones or bruises to

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Speaker 1: the wind pipe. You know, with the video doesn't in

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Speaker 1: any way possibly cover that. So these will be part

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Speaker 1: of the defense strategy going forward, quite quite relevant to

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Speaker 1: the whole school. Okay, so how does it work, doctor

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Speaker 1: Tim Gallagher? How do you decide? Did he die of asphyxiation?

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Speaker 1: Not strangulation, but asphyxiation from having Chauvin's knee on his

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Speaker 1: neck versus a fentanyl O D. I mean, is that

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Speaker 1: far fetched or is that real? Well, it's very real

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Speaker 1: in today's argumentative world. But you know, you here, hey,

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Speaker 1: wait a minute, wait a minute. I'm not talking about

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Speaker 1: a bunch of lawyers claiming things. I mean, in your world,

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Speaker 1: a world that's based on autopsies and hard scientific fact.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's not like we don't argue amongst what

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Speaker 1: do we know about what the autopsy reveals? And again

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Speaker 1: it's it's not like we don't argue amongst ourselves. We do,

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Speaker 1: but here, you know, we have many competing causes of death,

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Speaker 1: you know. And then one thing that we have to

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Speaker 1: remember is that George Floyd had the fentonel in his system,

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Speaker 1: and he had whatever heart condition he had pre existing

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Speaker 1: before he got apprehended by law enforcement. You know, he

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Speaker 1: was alive. He was very much alive having those two

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Speaker 1: conditions present within his body. Now that you add the

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Speaker 1: apprehension maneuvers done by the law enforcement, and now he's dead,

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Speaker 1: you know. So he was alive before they did it.

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Speaker 1: He was dead after they did it, you know. So

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Speaker 1: it's it seems to be a very fundamental argument to

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Speaker 1: prove that the physical assault was gone. Crime Stories with

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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. Guys, this day one of Derek Schaubin trial,

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Speaker 1: the murders trial going down right now, and with me

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Speaker 1: is doctor Tim Gallagher, medical examiner for the State of Florida.

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Speaker 1: But first listen to this. I get in the car.

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Speaker 1: You know it. You know it was me. Don't do

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Speaker 1: me like that man in the car. Okay, I told

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Speaker 1: you please, you can't car, we can talk. I am

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Speaker 1: because the phobic I'm American with me got him. Because

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Speaker 1: the phobic in the car in front. You're not getting them.

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Speaker 1: I was getting in the car okay, man, okay, I'm

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Speaker 1: not the best man in the car. I'm not a

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Speaker 1: black man. Please please sit take up every who give

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Speaker 1: him the squad. I'm not gonna okay now, hearing that,

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Speaker 1: you may believe that's when mister Floyd was on the ground,

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Speaker 1: but that is at the point to Enginette Levy, Emmy

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Speaker 1: nominated reporter and anchor, That is when they're trying to

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Speaker 1: put him in the police car and he will not

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Speaker 1: get in the bat because he says he's got claustrophobia,

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Speaker 1: and somebody screams out he's about to have a heart attack. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because they're trying to struggle him into the back because

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Speaker 1: you hear them saying, you're not getting in the front

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Speaker 1: where the steering wheel and the gas pedals are. That's

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Speaker 1: not happening, and so somebody screams out he's about to

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Speaker 1: have a heart attack at this junk or Antinette Leavy,

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Speaker 1: aren't they still trying to get him into the back

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Speaker 1: seat of the car? Yeah? And if there's you know,

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Speaker 1: there are a several different body cameras videos out there

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Speaker 1: that give you kind of different angles. You have to

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Speaker 1: kind of watch all of them to really see what's

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Speaker 1: going on. So they're trying to get him in through

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Speaker 1: the sides of the car that's next to cup Foods,

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Speaker 1: So or right there by, you know, by the sidewalks, right,

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Speaker 1: and then they put him in and then I believe

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Speaker 1: it's it's hard to tell, but I believe. Then one

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Speaker 1: of them goes around the other side, and I think

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Speaker 1: it might even be Chauvin, and they try to pull

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Speaker 1: him through the other side, you know, they try to

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Speaker 1: get him in like from both sides, and he's just

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Speaker 1: won't do it. He can't get in. Now he is

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Speaker 1: resisting and he's saying, look, I can't get in there.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to get in there. I'm claustrophobic, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: And so they're trying to pull him through, and then

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Speaker 1: at that point he's just it's this big struggle to

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Speaker 1: get him in the vehicle, and he's a big guy

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Speaker 1: sick for right. Well, I can tell you right now

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Speaker 1: to Jason Ocean's new or defense attorney, when a bystander

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Speaker 1: yells out he's going to have a heart attack. That

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Speaker 1: is going to be used by Chauvin's defense to say

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Speaker 1: Floyd was so worked up over getting in the squad

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Speaker 1: cart it was inducing a heart attack. Well, certainly the

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Speaker 1: video gives, you know, any late person the perspective of

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Speaker 1: few know what you're talking about a lay person like

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Speaker 1: you're looking down your snoop, because that's who's on the jury.

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Speaker 1: Lay people, they're not lawyers. But you're asking Nancy about

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Speaker 1: that comment relative to where it is. The jurors are

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Speaker 1: going to be driving it in a different contexts. So

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Speaker 1: certainly that does highlight. Now that's even before any activity

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Speaker 1: or engagement with the defendant and mister Floyd. It certainly

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Speaker 1: gives everyone the perspective in a heightened state that mister

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Speaker 1: Floyd was quite jacked up on his own and was

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Speaker 1: seemingly just from a simple stomp and ID on a

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Speaker 1: counterfeit twenty was, you know, breaking down in front of you.

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Speaker 1: He's a vi the video to the point Jason Oceans,

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Speaker 1: someone in the crowd says he's about to have a

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Speaker 1: heart attack. I still am not buying that this guy

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Speaker 1: had an finnel O D because the find you're not

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Speaker 1: out up and about walking around and talking to doctor

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Speaker 1: Tim Gallagher. If you have a finnel Od, you're passed

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Speaker 1: out right. This true of finnel Od is a essential

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Speaker 1: nervous system depressant and it flows down all of your

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Speaker 1: body phones. So this guy is not having a finnel Od.

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Speaker 1: I mean, hey, you're the MD. I'm just a JD.

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Speaker 1: But I know what a finnel Od does, Ye pass

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Speaker 1: out and then you die. This guy's not passing out.

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Speaker 1: This is not a Fennel o D. Nancy. He had

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Speaker 1: He had a lot of drugs in him on the tops,

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Speaker 1: not just the Fennel. Are you a doctor, because I

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Speaker 1: thought you're a j D, not an m D. I

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Speaker 1: know you're a voice. The lay person looking at the

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Speaker 1: video going he's having a heart attack. Okay, all right,

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Speaker 1: you using my own words against me, fine, okay, go ahead,

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Speaker 1: but can you put it in a sound bite please,

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Speaker 1: and not some big, long legal diatribe. What are you saying?

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Speaker 1: From the viewpoint of the video, it certainly appears that

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Speaker 1: mister Floyd is having a greater reaction internally on something

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Speaker 1: one would think relative to what's going down in front

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Speaker 1: of him. He was quite quite jacked up. Oh no,

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Speaker 1: have you ever been dragged into a car by your

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Speaker 1: feet and pulled across claiming that you had a fake

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Speaker 1: twenty I mean he's saying he didn't know anything about

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Speaker 1: it being a fake twenty. I bet you throw it

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Speaker 1: to Jason, But most of us put our hands on

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Speaker 1: the steering wheel and just react that ray without the

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Speaker 1: coming five. Well, yeah, I would do that because I

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Speaker 1: don't want to get shot. Okay, guys, So doctor Tim

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Speaker 1: Gallagher before Jason Oceans injected his medical opinion, Doctor Gallagher,

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Speaker 1: when you have a Fennel od you pass out and die. Right,

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Speaker 1: you can get jacked up like you would on meth.

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Speaker 1: That's exactly right. You'll go into a coma, you'll have

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Speaker 1: labor breathing, your breathing will stop, and you'll die in

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Speaker 1: the fennel overdose. That's great. It goes from and all

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Speaker 1: the struggle. As a Jeanette Levy is telling us what

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Speaker 1: you just heard is just trying to get Floyd in

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Speaker 1: the back seat. But right now he's still alive. Take

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Speaker 1: a listen to more you're hearing Officer Thomas Lane's bodycam footage. Listen, Oh,

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Speaker 1: I don't give me, I don't give me. I can't breathe.

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Speaker 1: I get a breathe. H h me. I just worry

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Speaker 1: about that delirium ut whatever. When I would try cases,

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Speaker 1: and I don't know if you're like this, Jason Nations,

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Speaker 1: but as the witness would be talking or the sam

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Speaker 1: would be playing. I'd keep constant eye on the jury.

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Speaker 1: How are they reacting back and forth like a tennis match?

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Speaker 1: Witness jury, witness jury. And as that was played, I

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Speaker 1: looked over at Jackie here in the studio. She had

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Speaker 1: her eyes closed and her hand driver knock like that.

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Speaker 1: That's what that jury is going to be doing. Guys,

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Speaker 1: we are in day one of the Derek Chauvin trial

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Speaker 1: and the death of mister George Floyd. It culminates with

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Speaker 1: this take a listen to Leah Beno KMSP Fox nine.

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Speaker 1: Floyd is then escorted across the street to the waiting

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Speaker 1: patrol car. From there we can see the struggle continue.

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Speaker 1: It's unclear how much time passes, but next we see

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Speaker 1: the witness video, which has now been seen around the world.

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Speaker 1: Over the course of the next three and a half minutes,

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Speaker 1: Floyd is heard seeing please, I can't breathe, or a

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Speaker 1: combination of both at least fourteen times, as people on

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Speaker 1: the sidewalk beg the officer to get off him or

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Speaker 1: the other officers to intervene getting the car there car

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Speaker 1: get up. Less than three and a half minutes into

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Speaker 1: the video, Floyd goes quiet. According to the Minneapolis fire

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Speaker 1: incident report. EMTs werecalled to the scene at eight thirty,

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Speaker 1: arriving two minutes later. Medex performed pulse checks several times,

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Speaker 1: finding none. Floyd's time of death at HCMC officially declared

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Speaker 1: at nine twenty five pm to Anjeanette Lady joining US

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Speaker 1: Emmy Award winning reporter and anchor Anjeanette was he calling

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Speaker 1: out for his mother? Yeah, that he was crying out

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Speaker 1: for his mother, And the prosecution said, there, we're going

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Speaker 1: to actually have a witness that they're going to put

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Speaker 1: on the stand for what they call spark of life testimony,

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Speaker 1: and that's to basically put like a human to introduce

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Speaker 1: the jury to the human being who lost their life

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Speaker 1: in this case. And they said they will be talking

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Speaker 1: about that why he was crying out for his mother.

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Speaker 1: Climb stories with Nancy Grace earlier we played for you

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Speaker 1: sound where you hear an officer asking if they should

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Speaker 1: quote roll him on his side. What's the significance of that,

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Speaker 1: Dodgor Tim Gallagher, What would rolling mister Floyd over on

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Speaker 1: his side have done? If anything, Well, it probably would

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Speaker 1: have taken some of the pressure off of his rib cage,

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Speaker 1: which would allow his muscles of breathing to work much

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Speaker 1: better and allow him more air into his lung too.

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Speaker 1: You Enginette Levy, Emmy Nominated Reporter and anchor. What exactly

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Speaker 1: did the autopsy reveal a s cod cause of death. Well,

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Speaker 1: it's very interesting because it discussed that George Floyd died

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Speaker 1: from from you know, that he died from a law

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Speaker 1: enforcement pressure. It discussed that it was law enforcement subduel

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Speaker 1: and view to the pressure that was applied to him,

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Speaker 1: that he passed away from that, and that it was

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Speaker 1: some type of cardiac issue related to that. It's interesting

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Speaker 1: because that was the final report from the autopsy, that

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Speaker 1: was the finding. However, there are some notes that the

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Speaker 1: defense is probably going to cite when they questioned doctor

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Speaker 1: Baker the Hanneton County Medical Examiners, a medical examiner, where

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Speaker 1: he stated that absent other factors or if Floyd had

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Speaker 1: been found at home, he would have ruled the cause

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Speaker 1: of death. But this is what I understand, doctor Tim Gallagher.

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Speaker 1: He wasn't found at home. He didn't die at home.

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Speaker 1: I'm a drug overdose and according to the report quote

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Speaker 1: Floyd's death was caused by the combined effects of mister

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Speaker 1: Floyd being restrained by police, underlying health conditions and potential

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Speaker 1: in toxicainst in his system. So it is a medical

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Speaker 1: examiner trying to say he would have just died on

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Speaker 1: his own from if you aids in a system, because

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Speaker 1: I don't believe that. Well, what the medical examiner here

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Speaker 1: is saying is that he did find something in the

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Speaker 1: toxicology report that cannot be ignored. So it has to

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Speaker 1: be because it's also a central nervous system depressant, and

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Speaker 1: this guy died after he went into respiratory arrest, that

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Speaker 1: this finding in the toxicology report cannot be ignored, and

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Speaker 1: then by default it has to be added to a

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Speaker 1: contributory cause of death. It's actually there and we cannot

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Speaker 1: ignore it. Okay, doctor Gallagher, I know you're a medical examiner,

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Speaker 1: and there's that medical examiner on George Floyd's case. But

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Speaker 1: Dotor Gallagher, are you trying to tell me that you

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Speaker 1: think Lloyd would have died from a FINTEL overdose? No,

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Speaker 1: not at all, you know. But what I'm trying to

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Speaker 1: say here is that because his respiratory system was suppressed

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Speaker 1: and suppressed mechanically, meaning somebody was leaning on him, this

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Speaker 1: drug also its effect on the body is to suppress

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Speaker 1: the respiratory system. The drug alone in his body may

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Speaker 1: not have had the ability to suppress it enough to

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Speaker 1: cause him medical problems, but with the combined effect of

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Speaker 1: the restraint and some of the influence of the drugs,

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Speaker 1: it is possible that fentinel could have been a contributing factor.

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Speaker 1: But in the law, in a criminal case, it's not possible.

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Speaker 1: It's got to be probable beyond a reasonable doubt. Floyd

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Speaker 1: had eleven in g slash emails a fintel in his blood.

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Speaker 1: What does that mean, doctor Gallagher? Well, the minimum dose

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Speaker 1: of fentanyl that we know that is fatal is three.

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Speaker 1: You can die from three nanograms of fentanyl in your

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Speaker 1: blood for somebody who is naive to the drug, who

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Speaker 1: has not built up a tolerance. So what would be

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Speaker 1: very beneficial in this case is to understand George Floyd's

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Speaker 1: fentanyl use. Is he a chronic user, meaning has he

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Speaker 1: built up a tolerance to where now his body can

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Speaker 1: stand eleven nanograms? So that one doctor what is a

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Speaker 1: quote heavy heart? A heavy heart is a result of

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Speaker 1: several diseases, most commonly high blood pressure. A heavy heart

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Speaker 1: is any heart that weighs over four hundred and twenty

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Speaker 1: five or four hundred and fifty grams. In this case,

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Speaker 1: George Floyd had one artery about seventy five blocked. You know,

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Speaker 1: my father was a heart patient since his late thirties.

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Speaker 1: I'm very familiar with artery blockages and having one blocked

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Speaker 1: artery that's not going to cause I don't think it's

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Speaker 1: going to cause coronary thrombosis ending in death. One artery

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Speaker 1: block well, you have three of them, and not all

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Speaker 1: unless it's a window maker, right, not all of them

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Speaker 1: carry the same importance. You're right. You did mention the

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Speaker 1: word widowmaker, and that's a common term that we use

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Speaker 1: for the heart artery called the left anterior descending coronary

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Speaker 1: artery runs right down in front of the heart, and

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Speaker 1: that's the part of the heart that does most of

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Speaker 1: the work. So if that artery is blocked, then if

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Speaker 1: that one artery is blocked and the heart is demanding

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Speaker 1: blood because now he is in a very highly emotional state,

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Speaker 1: his heart rates increase. That one artery, that critical artery,

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Speaker 1: is now blocked to the point the blood cannot flow

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Speaker 1: through it. The heart is not going to get the

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Speaker 1: bloody demands and it'll stop beating in protect What you

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Speaker 1: have been hearing and the last twenty minutes is exactly

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Speaker 1: what's going to be laid out in opening statements. You're

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Speaker 1: going to hear that Derek Chauvin put his knee on

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Speaker 1: mister Floyd's neck and mister Floyd died. The jury will

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Speaker 1: also hear about fentanyl and mister Floyd's system, and about

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Speaker 1: his so called quote heavy heart at all. It's all

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Speaker 1: coming to a head right now in a court of law.

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Speaker 1: This is where the rubber meets the road. We were

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Speaker 1: talking about the Derek Chauvin trial. It's happening now. Take

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Speaker 1: a listen to our friends at w CCO, CBS four.

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Speaker 1: Why is the man who killed George Floyd not in jail?

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Speaker 1: An emotional Jacob Pride demanded the arrest of former police

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Speaker 1: officer Derek Schauvin, and that had upon County Attorney Mike

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Speaker 1: Freeman charged him criminally. We are not talking about a

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Speaker 1: split second decision that was made incorrectly. The Minneapolis Fire

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Speaker 1: Department report says EMTs were called to the scene for

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Speaker 1: a patient that had trauma to his mouth. The report

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Speaker 1: goes on to say that when EMTs arrived HCMC medics

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Speaker 1: were already working on an unresponsive pulseless mail. We've all

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Speaker 1: seen the shocking video of George Floyd's last moments. Now

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Speaker 1: the attorney for Floyd's family and law enforcement are asking

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Speaker 1: anyone with any other videos to please come forward. This

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Speaker 1: video shows what the other doesn't, that all four officers

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Speaker 1: were at Floyd's side. Opening statements have commenced in the

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Speaker 1: trial of officer Derek Chauvin, age forty five, in the

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Speaker 1: death of forty six year old mister George Floyd. To

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Speaker 1: Karen Smith, fency expert lecturer, University Florida, host of Shattersul's podcast,

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Speaker 1: way in what forensics are going to be brought into trial?

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Speaker 1: Karen Well, I think we've already heard from the dock

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Speaker 1: about most of the forensics. And you know, my job

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Speaker 1: when I would go to a seam like this is

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Speaker 1: to remain unbiased and objective, and it's really difficult when

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Speaker 1: you have a case like this. But one thing I

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Speaker 1: do want to point out Nancy. As a retired cop,

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Speaker 1: I can tell you that there is no standard operating procedure.

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Speaker 1: There's no training in existence that would allow an officer

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Speaker 1: to keep his knee on individual's neck or over eight minutes.

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Speaker 1: We have a use of force matrix that's used when

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Speaker 1: officers encounter an individual, and what I saw was passive

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Speaker 1: resistance in that video, and that calls for nothing more

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Speaker 1: than what term pain compliance, and that can be as

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Speaker 1: simple as bending a risk to get the handcuffs on

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Speaker 1: a person. And after a few minutes, we saw that

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Speaker 1: George Floyd was then prone on the ground. He did

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Speaker 1: not pose a threat and Derek Chauvin has his hands

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Speaker 1: in his pocket, which is something that officers are trained

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Speaker 1: to never do. So that tells me that there was

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Speaker 1: absolutely no threat from George Floyd. And you couple that

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Speaker 1: with the number of officers on the scene, and there's

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00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 1: no reason to keep him prone on the ground like that,

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00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 1: especially when you're right next to a patrol vehicle. Once

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00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 1: you put your hands on a person as a police officer,

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00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:18,720
Speaker 1: that person is now in your care and control and

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00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:21,880
Speaker 1: the responsibility lies with that officers to ensure that person

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00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:24,760
Speaker 1: safety and well being, and that was not done in

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00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 1: this case. Question to you, Karen Smith, why is it

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00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 1: SAP and officers never to put hands in pockets, because

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00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 1: that is an officer safety issue. The one thing that

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00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:39,200
Speaker 1: people can use to attack you is their hands. That's

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00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 1: why we're trained. You watch their hands. You don't watch

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00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 1: their eyes. You watch their hands. That's why you put

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00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 1: your hands on the steering wheel or on the doorframe

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00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 1: so we can see them. Officers have to keep their

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00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 1: hands free so that we can reach for a weapon

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00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 1: if we need it, so that we can put our

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00:29:53,440 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 1: hands on that person if we need to. Crime Stories

443
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:11,800
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. Guys, the trial has started in the

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00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 1: case of Derek Chauvin and you can see it live

445
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 1: not only at crime online dot com where we're streaming

446
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:22,239
Speaker 1: at live, but also on Court TV. Joining me right

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00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 1: now is police psychologist faculty Saint Leo University research consultant

448
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:31,520
Speaker 1: with the Blue Wall Institute, doctor Jory Crasen, Doctor Crowsen.

449
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:34,480
Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us way and please Yeah.

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00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:37,280
Speaker 1: The first thing that really came to my mind when

451
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 1: I watched a video and listened to it was Floyd's

452
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 1: going through psychological distress and there were no calming techniques

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00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:48,520
Speaker 1: even once they got him under control, and especially if

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00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 1: he's clusterphobic and he's got drugs in his system. The

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00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 1: clusterphobia any kind of a fear or a phobia gets

456
00:30:56,400 --> 00:31:00,280
Speaker 1: really blown out of proportion when you're under the louns

457
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 1: of drugs. Putting him in the car, you could tell

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00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:08,120
Speaker 1: he's in a full blown fighter flight survival mode. So

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00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 1: of course that's going to accelerate his heart, his respiratorial system,

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00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 1: all of that. You know, they could have, like they said,

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00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:18,479
Speaker 1: when he add him down on the side, sitting on

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00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 1: the road there, start calming his techniques applying those. There

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00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:27,480
Speaker 1: was no way that I think he was gonna willingly

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00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 1: give that car, And even if he did, I could

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00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 1: almost guarantee he would be thrashing around, he'd be striking

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00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:39,520
Speaker 1: his head. You know, there was just win, like you said, Degenerator,

467
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:43,240
Speaker 1: from that point forward, Guys at crime online dot com,

468
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 1: you can watch the Derek Chauvin trial live right now.

469
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 1: It all will be in the hands of twelve grs

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00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:55,360
Speaker 1: to doctor Jorry crows In, what do you think this

471
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 1: jury is going through and what emotional impact is this

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00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:02,720
Speaker 1: going to have on them? We expect their opening statements frankly,

473
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:05,600
Speaker 1: to last at least one full day, if not longer.

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00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 1: They're going to be really under some serious stress, not

475
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 1: only for you know, the evidence that they're going to view,

476
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:17,720
Speaker 1: what they're going to hear, but also the ramifications that

477
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 1: they're going to have to come up with and way

478
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:25,440
Speaker 1: and bring out in their verdict and to you Internet, Levy,

479
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 1: tell me how long I've heard rumors of opening statements

480
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 1: lasting one to two days. Is that even possible? I mean,

481
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 1: lawyers can talk, they can talk for a long time,

482
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:40,440
Speaker 1: So I don't know if I'm going to judge. K

483
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:43,800
Speaker 1: Hill has been very flexible, but I don't know. That

484
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 1: sounds like a really long time. I don't know if

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00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 1: that's even necessary. You know, it's a case where you

486
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 1: have the whole you know, the whole incident on videotape

487
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:57,600
Speaker 1: and on several videotapes or I guess I should say

488
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 1: video files. So how you would need that long? I

489
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:03,720
Speaker 1: just don't know how anybody would need that. I'm not

490
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:06,479
Speaker 1: sure either, but I do expect this, Jason Oceans. I

491
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 1: expect there have been emotions in lemony to keep certain

492
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:13,080
Speaker 1: evidence out and evidencial you're hearing is ahead of trial

493
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 1: to get certain evidence in. But you have to do

494
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:18,840
Speaker 1: if you want that evidence to come in your opening statement,

495
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 1: Otherwise you'll have to wait for the witness to take

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00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:24,600
Speaker 1: the stand to get that in that evidence introduced. So

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00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 1: I expect for these body cam videos to be played

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00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 1: in opening statements, maybe by both sides. What do you

499
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:37,960
Speaker 1: think it's entirely possible, Nancy? I think that's I know

500
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:42,440
Speaker 1: it's possible. What you think, I'm telling you, I think

501
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:45,720
Speaker 1: it might very well happen. It does not usually, Man,

502
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:47,600
Speaker 1: you want to go to Rosco a man, because you

503
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:51,840
Speaker 1: can sure slip out of an answer. Hey, that's criminal defense.

504
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 1: It's the nuance of it all. But I tell you

505
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:58,880
Speaker 1: it falls down man, it's Nancy. It falls down to

506
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 1: the interpretation. And just as mentioned before, the jurors are

507
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 1: going to feel that intense pressure. How they react to

508
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:11,880
Speaker 1: the video and or any you know, toxicology or other evidence.

509
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 1: That nuance, some of that will be very significant. So

510
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:19,240
Speaker 1: I would be prized if both put in doctor joy Crowson.

511
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:23,439
Speaker 1: I hear what doctor Gallagher is saying about the heart

512
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 1: ailment and the fentanyl, and I know the fentyl was

513
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 1: a lot in his system. But that visual, the visual

514
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:38,680
Speaker 1: of Chauvin hands in his pockets looking off the other

515
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:44,319
Speaker 1: way with his knee in Floyd's neck, I just can't

516
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:47,759
Speaker 1: get around that visual. That's gonna be very powerful and

517
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:50,919
Speaker 1: even as a police officer, you know, like it's already said,

518
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:52,919
Speaker 1: you don't put your hands in your pocket. That's such

519
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:57,719
Speaker 1: a nonchalant. The man is dying and he's got his

520
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:00,479
Speaker 1: hands in his pocket. It's like he's gonna check time.

521
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:04,799
Speaker 1: The man is dying under his knee. Yeah, very hard

522
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:08,440
Speaker 1: to overcome. I don't know how you get around that, guys.

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00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:15,319
Speaker 1: The George Floyd Derek chauven trial is happening now. You

524
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 1: can see it live at crime online dot com. We

525
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:23,440
Speaker 1: will bring bringing you updates throughout the day. Well, I

526
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 1: can say this, whether the courthouse falls down around them,

527
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 1: they must render a verdict that speaks truth. Nancy Gray's

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00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:37,480
Speaker 1: Crime Story, signing off, goodbye friend,