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Speaker 1: Campsite media in Canada did something that would seem absolutely

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Speaker 1: insane to most Americans. They rewrote their Constitution. Until then,

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Speaker 1: Britain technically still had the power to make changes to

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Speaker 1: it whenever they wanted. But after the Constitution Act was passed,

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Speaker 1: Canada was finally in charge of its own affairs and

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Speaker 1: at last became a fully free, independent and sovereign nation.

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Speaker 1: The moment the Queen puts her signature on this document,

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Speaker 1: it becomes law. The Constitution is now hong Tucked away

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Speaker 1: in the Constitution Act was a bullet point under section

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Speaker 1: it reads, the existing Aboriginal and treaty rights of the

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Speaker 1: Aboriginal peoples of Canada are hereby recognized and affirmed. It

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Speaker 1: was one of the landmark achievements that Prime Minister Pierre

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Speaker 1: Trudeau brought up in a speech that day. We know

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Speaker 1: have a charger which defined the kind of country in

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Speaker 1: which we wish to live. Unguarantees the basic rights and

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Speaker 1: freedom which each of us shall enjoy as a citizen

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Speaker 1: of Canada. Unfortunately, Section five wasn't so cut and dry.

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Speaker 1: The Constitution recognized and affirmed all existing indigenous rights, but

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Speaker 1: it didn't exactly say which rights those were. Section five

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Speaker 1: was essentially a blank canvas in the middle of the

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Speaker 1: Canadian Constitution. Those blank spots would have to be filled

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Speaker 1: in by the courts. Indigenous people filed lawsuits or challenged rests,

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Speaker 1: mostly over things like fishing, hunting, and territorial rights, and slowly,

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Speaker 1: over the last forty years, that canvas has been filled in,

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Speaker 1: bit by bit a patchwork of legal battles that define

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Speaker 1: the bounds of what Native people in Canada can and

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Speaker 1: can't do. But there is one prominent issue that remains unresolved,

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Speaker 1: the legality of the tobacco trade, whether Native people can

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Speaker 1: buy and sell tobacco tax free. Derek hoped to be

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Speaker 1: the person who paints across that blank spot. I'm the

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Speaker 1: only one that's ever you know, tried to fight it.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's one of the reasons why. One of

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Speaker 1: my my my lawyers told me, he said he worked

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Speaker 1: for the government, federal government for thirty years on exercise

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Speaker 1: and he said, uh, they the government always won every time,

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Speaker 1: every court case. So he said, basically, why are you

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Speaker 1: trying to do it as well? Yeah, but did anybody

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Speaker 1: ever fight it? And he said, no, you got a

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Speaker 1: point there, nobody ever fought it, so they always took

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Speaker 1: the deal. I said, well, I'm going to fight it

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Speaker 1: and see what happens. The worst. The worst can happen

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Speaker 1: is spend all kinds of money and get thrown in jail.

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Speaker 1: I'll not I'm not. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna

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Speaker 1: plead guilty to it though, that's for sure, because I'm

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Speaker 1: not guilty of doing anything. When Derek filed this constitutional challenge,

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Speaker 1: it had to go through a court review process, and

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Speaker 1: once the judge agreed to hear Derek's aregument, it meant

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Speaker 1: that his guilty verdict was put on pause. He wouldn't

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Speaker 1: go to prisoner have to pay a fine until his

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Speaker 1: constitutional challenge was finished, sort of like overtime for his

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Speaker 1: criminal trial. His constitutional case was slated to begin a

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Speaker 1: few months after the guilty verdict. So Derek got himself

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Speaker 1: the best Native rights lawyers that money could buy and

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Speaker 1: put them to work crafting a defense. My name is

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Speaker 1: Vincent Carney. I'm a lawyer at or the Entre sec

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Speaker 1: in Montreal. So our firm UH specializes in the defense

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Speaker 1: of Aboriginal nations or helping them achieve recognition for their rights.

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Speaker 1: Vincent is the junior lawyer on Derek's legal team. They

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Speaker 1: planned to make the case that as an Indigenous person,

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Speaker 1: Derek has a right to trade tobacco tax free. It

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Speaker 1: was a right that was protected by various treaties that

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Speaker 1: Mohawks had signed with the colonial government centuries earlier. That

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Speaker 1: right is called stitutionalized and would prevail over the statutory

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Speaker 1: framework that um that exists in Canada. And because of

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Speaker 1: those rights, those provisions are not applicable to them in

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Speaker 1: the circumstances of these proceedings. So the argument, as I

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Speaker 1: understand it, is that these laws should not apply because

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Speaker 1: they are Native and so therefore they did not commit

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Speaker 1: a crime. In simplified terms, Yes, that's accurate. So because

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Speaker 1: Section thirty five of the Canadian Constitution says that all

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Speaker 1: existing Aboriginal rights are recognized, that means that Derek and

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Speaker 1: Hunter's actions should be fully legal in the eyes of

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Speaker 1: the law. We didn't change the rules dated for Hunter Montour,

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Speaker 1: he was fighting the case alongside Derek. This is just

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Speaker 1: another case of Canada ignoring treaties and negotiations that already

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Speaker 1: answered these questions hundreds of years ago. There are rules

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Speaker 1: that were set up and agreements made prior to Canada,

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Speaker 1: prior to the United States, there were agreements made that

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Speaker 1: we honored, and we still follow We still followed him,

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Speaker 1: And it's like playing a game of cards with somebody

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Speaker 1: and they just decided we're going to change the rules

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Speaker 1: so they can win. Hunter believes that, of course Mohawks

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Speaker 1: have a right to free trade across the border. They

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Speaker 1: were doing it long before Canada even existed. This is

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Speaker 1: a cut and dry case. But whether the courts will

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Speaker 1: actually agree with him, he's not so sure. I don't

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Speaker 1: know what happens, and I don't nobody's ever been this far.

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Speaker 1: I think, as far as I know, nobody's been this far. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's not entirely true, because back in the nineteen eighties,

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Speaker 1: another Mohawk took border crossing issues all the way to

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Speaker 1: the Canadian Supreme Court and it became one of the

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Speaker 1: most famous Native rights cases of the twentieth century. It's

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Speaker 1: already been litigated on when one individual, Mike Mitchell case,

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Speaker 1: when he did it on his soul and there was

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Speaker 1: a grandstanding gesture. Doug George Canendio is a prominent Mohawk

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Speaker 1: journalists from Mike's community. Mike Mitchoke took it upon himself

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Speaker 1: to take goods across and his very symbolic Kylie Pablo

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Speaker 1: sized act. He thought he was going to be a

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Speaker 1: great savior. In a lot of ways, Derek was following

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Speaker 1: in Mike's footsteps. Even though Mike's case wasn't about tobacco,

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Speaker 1: it was a prime example of mohawk activism and how

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Speaker 1: the court system could be a powerful tool for Native rights.

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Speaker 1: But it was also a cautionary tale of what could

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Speaker 1: happen if things went wrong. It was a dumb case.

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Speaker 1: I never should have been argued before the court. What

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Speaker 1: Mike did it? Anyway? From Campsite Media and Damn Patrick Productions,

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Speaker 1: this is running Smoke, Pretty Black Act. I'm Roger Gola

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Speaker 1: and this is episode six, the test case of all

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Speaker 1: in the past. There's a documentary that came out back

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Speaker 1: in the nineteen sixties called You Are on Indian Land.

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Speaker 1: The film begins with a young man speaking for a

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Speaker 1: packed room of journalists and activists. He's wearing a black

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Speaker 1: blazer and a thick beaded belt around his neck. The

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Speaker 1: crowd is dead silent, hanging on his every word. We

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Speaker 1: don't want to be a Canadian citizen. We don't want

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Speaker 1: to be American cist. They taught us a long time

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Speaker 1: about that we were not American Indians like to day,

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Speaker 1: we feel this way too. The film documents of protest

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Speaker 1: held in the winter of nineteen when Mohawks from the

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Speaker 1: Agasas Mohawk Territory shut down the international bridge linking Canada

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Speaker 1: in the US across the St. Lawrence River. Their demand

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Speaker 1: was for both countries to recognize their right to cross

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Speaker 1: the border freely with groceries, clothes, and whatever else without

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Speaker 1: having to pay a customs tax. The world is looking

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Speaker 1: at it. The whole world is looking at us right

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Speaker 1: here and now. Are we going to give up? No?

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Speaker 1: Are we gonna fight until there's not one Indian left here.

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Speaker 1: Dozens of activists young and olds bundled up against the

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Speaker 1: harsh winter and took over the bridge early in the morning.

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Speaker 1: They blocked cars from passing in both directions and hands

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Speaker 1: it out flyers that said notice, this is an Indian reserve. Eventually,

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Speaker 1: Canadian police arrived with batons and began arresting the protesters.

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Speaker 1: One of the first to be arrested was the young

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Speaker 1: man with the beaded necklace, who went by the name

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Speaker 1: Mike Mitchell. So, my name is Michael Mitchell, and I'm

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Speaker 1: a Mohawk from Aquasas Mohawk Nation. I am from the

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Speaker 1: Wolf Clan and a faith keeper in a longhouse and

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Speaker 1: former Grand Chief of the Mahaw Council of Aquasasta. Last

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Speaker 1: year I met Mike for soup and cheesecake at a

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Speaker 1: restaurant just outside the Aguasas Mohawk Territory in Upstate New York.

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Speaker 1: Mike is now seventy one years old and retired from politics,

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Speaker 1: though he still garners immense respect for his tenure as

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Speaker 1: the Aquasas Grand Chief. I occupied that position for over

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Speaker 1: thirty years. His leadership was marked by the same activist

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Speaker 1: spirit he showed back in nineteen. It's the kind of

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Speaker 1: leadership that a place like Agasas demanded because it was

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Speaker 1: in a rather unique position. Half of the reservation of Aquasasna,

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Speaker 1: happy of it is in Canada and the other half

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Speaker 1: in the United States, and then the part that's in

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Speaker 1: Aquasasa on the Candy side, half of that is in Ontario,

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Speaker 1: and then the other halfs in the problems of Quebec.

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Speaker 1: There's five different jurisdictions over one community between two border agencies,

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Speaker 1: state cops, provincial cops, and federal cops from both sides.

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Speaker 1: Agasas was under a lot of pressure. It made life

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Speaker 1: complicated for everybody there. Most of the workforce where people

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Speaker 1: that work in the United States, and a good part

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Speaker 1: of the workforce were the iron workers. They'd go to

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Speaker 1: New York, Boston, Philadelphia, and New Jersey, etcetera. They come

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Speaker 1: home on weekends, the wives and the women would buy

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Speaker 1: their groceries and clothing in nearby Stars and upstate New York.

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Speaker 1: And it's hard to imagine that our daily lives were

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Speaker 1: affected by border of some kind, some authority, some government,

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Speaker 1: and it affected everybody. Decades after Mike's dramatic protests on

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Speaker 1: the bridge, little had changed in the everyday lives and

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Speaker 1: mohawks on the border. They were forced to submit to

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Speaker 1: vehicle searches, I D checks and had to pay customs

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Speaker 1: on the basic goods they needed for their everyday life

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Speaker 1: hours every day, we're just swallowed up waiting in long lines,

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Speaker 1: and hard earned dollars were paid to a system they

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Speaker 1: believed was unjust, and so the others as well. We

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Speaker 1: gotta make them listen. We're gonna let them know we're

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Speaker 1: very serious about protecting our right. We gotta fight for it.

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Speaker 1: We could lose everything. They could deny us all recognition

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Speaker 1: of indigenous right, border crossing. And the whole question was, well,

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Speaker 1: then the right to cross, the right to work, they're

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Speaker 1: right to go to school, uh, community goods. They were

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Speaker 1: kind of tired of their harassment. They said, let's let's

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Speaker 1: rather than more blockades, more people going to jail, let's

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Speaker 1: let's make a fight of it. Let's do the test case.

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Speaker 1: They decided to fight the border crossing laws in court.

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Speaker 1: It was a high stakes gamble for us. That's what

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Speaker 1: it meant. We should try to get a verdict and

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Speaker 1: have it reconfirmed that we have that right. Canada's idea

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Speaker 1: was once that's over and the order terments that they

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Speaker 1: have no rights, then we're back in control. Hold on,

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Speaker 1: we'll be right back. You're listening to your running smoke media.

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Speaker 1: Mike's plan was to stage a symbolic protest. He would

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Speaker 1: fill his pickup with basic goods and drive across the border.

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Speaker 1: When the border agents demanded that he paid taxes, he

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Speaker 1: would refuse, and once he got a ticket for breaking

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Speaker 1: the law, he can make his case in court. It

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Speaker 1: seemed pretty fool proof, and Mike got a lot of

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Speaker 1: support from the community. They took up a collection after

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Speaker 1: so many meetings and all and uh. They went to

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Speaker 1: a machine on New York and bought groceries. They bought

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Speaker 1: furniture and a refrigerator and a washing machine. They took

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Speaker 1: my truck loaded up with the groceries and the furniture.

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Speaker 1: There's a big piling and some of the women and

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Speaker 1: elders got on the truck and we walked there across

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Speaker 1: the border. Hundreds of people followed behind Mike's blue Chevy

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Speaker 1: square body in support of his protest. I came across,

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Speaker 1: got to the customers Canadian Customers compound and I declared

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Speaker 1: everything and they said, uh you oh um, four dollars

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Speaker 1: of duty dutiable attacks and I said, well, I'm not

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Speaker 1: paying because I am invulking my indigenous right. And that's

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Speaker 1: how it began. When Mike refused to pay, the tax

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Speaker 1: cops swarmed his truck. My performed with the RCMP. Would

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Speaker 1: you please talk to HIC before somebody gets hurted. I'm sorry,

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Speaker 1: but I can't stop. And I put everything back into

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Speaker 1: the truck and I surely drove away because there was.

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Speaker 1: You know, I've quite a lot of people around, and

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Speaker 1: they would not let me surrender or give it up.

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Speaker 1: As my tried to drive away, CBC news crews mobbed

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Speaker 1: his truck and caught the confrontation on cameras under Section

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Speaker 1: thirty one, Mike of the Customs Act, I'm arresting you.

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Speaker 1: Would you come with me please, part of the section

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Speaker 1: Article three summons in ninety four j Treaty. I have

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Speaker 1: rights to cross, and I'm going through your personal with

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Speaker 1: personal goods from lot of people. Mike kept on pushing

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Speaker 1: through the other side of the border. His mission was

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Speaker 1: to get all this stuff in his truck to the

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Speaker 1: Mohawk Reservation of Tyandanega, about seventy miles away. Cops followed

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Speaker 1: him the whole time, and he was worried that he

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Speaker 1: wouldn't actually make it all the way without getting pulled over.

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Speaker 1: So he radioed as people, so I don't think we're

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Speaker 1: gonna make it out of too far out of corn one,

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Speaker 1: and within five minutes a whole army of well fifty

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Speaker 1: trucks and cars. So Mandy got in front of our

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Speaker 1: caravan and others behind, and so day I escorted me

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Speaker 1: all the way to Tandanegat miles out. There was one

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Speaker 1: loan actually p Mono police. He pulled out. He pulled

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Speaker 1: across and he said, I know what he's that going,

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Speaker 1: and this is a right way to do it. You

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Speaker 1: know you're trying to pursue you on non violent way

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Speaker 1: to get your point across. He said, but I have

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Speaker 1: to deliver this charge and and that's just for all

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Speaker 1: the stuff thattch in your truck that came across the border.

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Speaker 1: He said, we're backing off. What show you in court?

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Speaker 1: Then he drove off. This is what the whole protest

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Speaker 1: was leading up to. He finally had a ticket that

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Speaker 1: stated the taxes. He owed it was a document he

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Speaker 1: could take to court, and a few months later he

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Speaker 1: got his chance to plead his community's case before judge.

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Speaker 1: His argument was based off the j Treaty, named after

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Speaker 1: John J who negotiated the deal back in. The treaty

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Speaker 1: was signed between the US and Great Britain after the

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Speaker 1: Revolutionary War and included a clause guaranteeing Native Americans the

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Speaker 1: right to free trade and free passage across the northern border. Canada, however,

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Speaker 1: says the treaty doesn't apply because it was signed before

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Speaker 1: their independence. Mike Mitchell told the judge about his people's

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Speaker 1: historical right and that borders did not apply to indigenous

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Speaker 1: people whose governments had been around for thousands of years

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Speaker 1: before colonists ever arrived on the continent. Much to Mike's surprise,

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Speaker 1: much to everyone's surprise, the judge agreed. The court essentially

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Speaker 1: recognized that all Native people across Canada from coast to coast,

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Speaker 1: have the right to cross the border without paying customs

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Speaker 1: or taxes. Mike had one big they're where cars haw

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Speaker 1: care and no hearts going back and forth. People were parading. Uh.

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Speaker 1: It probably was a very joyous I I did not

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Speaker 1: um man chesipate a decision like that, but I was

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Speaker 1: very happy. But Mike had been around long enough to

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Speaker 1: know that victories like this for Native communities we're going

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Speaker 1: to be short lived. I said, we told you we

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Speaker 1: went not as a test case, but we need to

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Speaker 1: go back for a great or certain today called it

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Speaker 1: and they got that. At the Court of Appeal, Mike

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Speaker 1: was told that the Canadian government would be appealing the decision.

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Speaker 1: He would have to defend Mohawk rights yet again to

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Speaker 1: judges are the same thing over again, and they reduced

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Speaker 1: that right, course of course, to all of Quebec, all

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Speaker 1: of Ontario, and all the New York State. The federal

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Speaker 1: appeals Court had overturned the first judge's decision and instead

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Speaker 1: limited the right to free border crossing to just the

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Speaker 1: Native people living in the traditional Mohawk homelands in the

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Speaker 1: eastern part of the country. It was a big blow,

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Speaker 1: but there wasn't a total defeat. Could we live with it, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we could negotiate with But I started getting suspicious right

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Speaker 1: from there that something else is going to happen. They were,

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Speaker 1: they were freaked out. Mike had good reason to be

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Speaker 1: suspicious because during this time, there was a new industry

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Speaker 1: starting up in Mohawk territories, an industry that Canada saw

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Speaker 1: as a threat to their financial stability, contraband tobacco. We

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Speaker 1: didn't realize that, but this is a billion dollar industry.

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Speaker 1: So became a big topic in Canada, and that they're

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Speaker 1: big SENTI in Canada, which we're looking a lot of revenue.

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Speaker 1: Uh indigenous UH communities are making millions um on on

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Speaker 1: a tax free, gouty free. They said, um Indigenous people

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Speaker 1: could threaten the financial stability of Canada, the financial institutions

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Speaker 1: of the country, et cetera. They would freaking out. So

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Speaker 1: if the tobacco industry wasn't a factor, do you think

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Speaker 1: Canada would have comes to the negotiating table after first

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Speaker 1: when yeah, yeah, In the ends, mike suspicions were born out.

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Speaker 1: The prosecutors weren't happening with the outcome from the appeals court,

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Speaker 1: and they appealed once again, this time to the Supreme

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Speaker 1: Court of Canada. And my job, best grand chief, would

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Speaker 1: I say, well, we've got to keep fighting. You know,

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Speaker 1: we've got to persevere, you know, we we can't give up.

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Speaker 1: And the elders are saying the same thing. We'll get

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Speaker 1: into all that right after the break in two thousand one,

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Speaker 1: nearly fifteen years after Mike first crossed the bridge and

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Speaker 1: his pick up, the Supreme Court handed down its decision.

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Speaker 1: The Supreme Court decided uh that the Mohawks abaquiz us

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Speaker 1: it did not trade across the St. Lawrence River. To

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Speaker 1: this stage, there's seminars put on by lawyers trying to

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Speaker 1: figure out what the hell did Canada mean by that.

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Speaker 1: Nobody couldn't make sense of it. The Supreme Court decided

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Speaker 1: that Mohawks never had a right to cross the border.

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Speaker 1: According to the history that the government's experts presented, Mohawks

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Speaker 1: never traded north south across the St. Lawrence River, which

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Speaker 1: marks the US Canada border. Instead, they claimed, Mohawks conducted

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Speaker 1: their trade east to west above the St. Lawrence and

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Speaker 1: therefore they don't have a right to free passage across

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Speaker 1: the border. Today, you played again exactly the way they

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Speaker 1: laid it out. You get your decision, and then they

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Speaker 1: yanked back away. I lost all respect. I didn't think

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Speaker 1: I whatever. You left to see the day that it

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Speaker 1: was so blunt um that they weren't gonna let it happen.

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Speaker 1: The impact of the decision was felt across Canada. Immediately,

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Speaker 1: Customs police began enforcing border taxes with a new vigor,

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Speaker 1: and Indigenous advocates were crushed. The whole saga begged the

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Speaker 1: question of whether it was worth fighting the status quo.

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Speaker 1: If losing meant having your rights officially denied, What was

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Speaker 1: the effect of his loss? There? It was? It was bad.

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Speaker 1: Kenneth Dear is the founder of the Eastern Door newspaper

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Speaker 1: and a longtime commun Unity leader, and got a wag

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Speaker 1: game Mohawk territory. You know, first of all, he was

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Speaker 1: told don't do it, and but he wouldn't listen on

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Speaker 1: anyone ahead. A lot of people in the long house,

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Speaker 1: we're telling them not not to do it. Wow, because

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Speaker 1: of the risk losing, you know, and uh, which would

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Speaker 1: happened people were piste. I always say that you stay

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Speaker 1: out of courts. Don't go out of courts, stay stay

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Speaker 1: out of it. And and and sometimes we just get

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Speaker 1: shoot ourselves in the foot that way, you know. And uh,

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Speaker 1: as if courts don't mean anything to watch what they do.

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Speaker 1: It's easy to say that the courts don't matter to

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Speaker 1: Indigenous people. Their modern institutions trying to govern ancient societies.

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Speaker 1: They're made up of experts who aren't Native. Law is

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Speaker 1: imported from colonists and judges who aren't trained in Indigenous history.

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Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, the courts have

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Speaker 1: a very real impact on the lives of Indigenous people,

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Speaker 1: regardless of whether those decisions are considered legitimate. Steve Bonspiel,

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Speaker 1: editor of the Eastern Or newspaper, has what happens with

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Speaker 1: these sorts of cases time and time again. We have

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Speaker 1: to fight in a system that inherently has waited against us,

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Speaker 1: a country that inherently doesn't accept us, or even to

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Speaker 1: the worst point, hates us. And and we have no choice.

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Speaker 1: What are we gonna do? You know. So it's not

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Speaker 1: a surprise when people, you know, go and uh stand

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Speaker 1: up against the pipeline or block an entrance way or whatever, grassroots,

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Speaker 1: because there's no other way, you know. And and I

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Speaker 1: think that's the tough part is that this court system

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Speaker 1: is set up to serve certain people and it's not us,

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Speaker 1: you know. And that's the toughest part is you're fighting

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Speaker 1: against this um, this monster that has endless money and

356
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Speaker 1: endless resources. There's always that double standard of like, wait,

357
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Speaker 1: the manhawks are getting ahead, Okay, now, let's let's nail them. Well,

358
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Speaker 1: our people are getting ahead. No, that's fine, that's that's innovation,

359
00:22:56,640 --> 00:23:00,240
Speaker 1: that's that's you know, them evolving. The courts. Just asion

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Speaker 1: made it clear that this wasn't the place for Indigenous

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Speaker 1: people to affirm their rights. Canada would never give up

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00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:08,200
Speaker 1: any of its sovereignty to make space for indigenous communities.

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Speaker 1: It forced indigenous advocates to ask themselves if they should

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Speaker 1: even bother doing things through the quote unquote proper channels

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Speaker 1: if the system was rigged against them in the first place.

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Speaker 1: Peggy Mayo stand Up is a former chief on the

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Speaker 1: Mohawk Council of Ganawage and one of Derek's expert witnesses

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Speaker 1: for the constitutional challenge. She's had a front row seat

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Speaker 1: to Derek's case since he first went to court on

370
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Speaker 1: criminal charges, and the way she sees it, Derek and

371
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Speaker 1: Hunter are fighting this thing the only way they can.

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Speaker 1: When you look across Canada, like all the cases that

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Speaker 1: have gone to courts, like land claims, every every kind

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Speaker 1: of case that you could think of, even with the

375
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:47,280
Speaker 1: tax exemption regarding working on the outside but working for

376
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:51,240
Speaker 1: native entity, all of that, all those challenges that haven't

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00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:54,200
Speaker 1: done all the years back unemployment, and the list goes

378
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Speaker 1: on and on. Have we won a case? The answers, no,

379
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Speaker 1: we haven't. We haven't won anything major. I mean, then

380
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Speaker 1: what is the value of fighting any of these in

381
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,199
Speaker 1: the court? Well, to me, there's no other way to

382
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:06,280
Speaker 1: fight it. And what else you're gonna do. You're not

383
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:08,760
Speaker 1: gonna have a war over it because we're not gonna win.

384
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:12,399
Speaker 1: I mean, we're like you look at it as Indigenous

385
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:16,080
Speaker 1: people across the country were like one percent of the population.

386
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Speaker 1: And I mean it's like when we have no chance

387
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Speaker 1: of we can take in our arrows out and okay,

388
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Speaker 1: we're gonna go to battle now with them. There's no

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00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,600
Speaker 1: way we can do that. So there's only one way

390
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:29,080
Speaker 1: to do it is in the courts, and have your

391
00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:32,000
Speaker 1: faith and trust that you're going to find some lawyer

392
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Speaker 1: who's going to be committed and dedicated and finding every

393
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Speaker 1: loophole and cover every loophole to get us to this court.

394
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Speaker 1: That's our only option. Hunter Montur, Derek's co accused, I'm

395
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 1: not gonna sit in, gonna wag in my whole life

396
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Speaker 1: because I don't want to turn myself in. I'm not

397
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:50,080
Speaker 1: going to do that. So it is what it is.

398
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Speaker 1: What we're trying to take the fight wherever we can

399
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:54,960
Speaker 1: take it. And then we'll see who's ready to keep

400
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:59,840
Speaker 1: fighting and go on and who's who's really cut out

401
00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:01,880
Speaker 1: for this, and who is it who really wants to fight,

402
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:06,080
Speaker 1: how far you want to go. It's not about standing

403
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:09,320
Speaker 1: in the tree line and trying to scare policemen and

404
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:12,640
Speaker 1: army guys. This is a this is the way things

405
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,320
Speaker 1: are done now. This is the fight. I don't know

406
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Speaker 1: what's gonna happen. I mean if I if I win,

407
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:23,359
Speaker 1: and when I do win, this it's business as usual

408
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:28,320
Speaker 1: for everyone else. And if I lose, which I probably

409
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:33,280
Speaker 1: ain't gonna lose, it's still it's gonna stay status school.

410
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 1: I mean, it's going to continue until a long time

411
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Speaker 1: after I'm did. You know. So it's just it's it's

412
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Speaker 1: our trade. I mean, it's not gonna die. It's not

413
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Speaker 1: going anywhere. The government just needs to understand that this

414
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:50,880
Speaker 1: thing ain't gonna go away, even by finding if I'm

415
00:25:50,880 --> 00:26:00,200
Speaker 1: found guilty, which I won't, it's still going to continue.

416
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:08,640
Speaker 1: We don't pay taxes were we are not people that

417
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 1: will follow to the Canadian laws or stuff like that.

418
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 1: I mean, we um, we're here. They stole all our

419
00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:20,200
Speaker 1: land and they're crying over a little bit of freaking

420
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Speaker 1: tobacco money. They could, you know what they that's what

421
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:29,879
Speaker 1: they can do, give us our land back, plain and simple.

422
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 1: We're stuck and we're surrounded by all these outsiders, and

423
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Speaker 1: and they want to try to, you know, tell us

424
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Speaker 1: what to do. It ain't. It ain't gonna happen. Our

425
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 1: governments need to step up and say, okay, well let's

426
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Speaker 1: fight this as a as a whole, the whole Turtle Island,

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Speaker 1: every reserve or territory where Native people live. They need

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Speaker 1: to be stepping up and fighting this because it's a

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Speaker 1: it's a big deal. I mean, it's right to the

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Speaker 1: top right now. So it's where it's where it's supposed

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Speaker 1: to be. It's been wanted. People have been wanting this

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Speaker 1: for years, but I don't think they're ready to fight it.

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Speaker 1: And I am. I'm going to do it because I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's it's my life, it's my livelihood. I'm fighting this

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Speaker 1: right till, right till the end. Derek and Hunter were

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Speaker 1: gearing up for the fight of their lives against the

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Speaker 1: Canadian government, but before they even stepped foot in court,

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Speaker 1: they got a call from the Mohawk Nation Council of Chiefs,

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Speaker 1: the highest level of traditional government that oversees all eight

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Speaker 1: Mohawk territories. They were calling to make a simple demand.

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Speaker 1: They wanted Derek and Hunter to drop their case. They

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Speaker 1: were basically asking plead guilty and just take the eel

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Speaker 1: or whatever and not fight it. But we already had

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Speaker 1: it set that we're going to fight this. They just

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Speaker 1: didn't feel that it was my fight. It's kind of

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Speaker 1: a whole nation, like everybody's fight. So I said, now

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Speaker 1: it's the perfect time. I was pissed, and I told

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Speaker 1: him how I felt. I said, what are you doing here?

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Speaker 1: Who sent you? Because I don't know who the hell

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Speaker 1: these people are? And if you're not here to help,

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Speaker 1: what are you here for? Next time? On Running Smoke?

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Speaker 1: Middle Ground over there, either you're four or against, I said, well,

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Speaker 1: what the hell's the point of having these tools? If

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Speaker 1: we can't use them, when are you going to use them?

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Speaker 1: It was the Wild West and you're doing a hundred

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Speaker 1: hundred and ten and the car you're pursuing is throwing

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00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 1: beer bottles at you. They would ride around, and he

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00:28:56,600 --> 00:29:00,200
Speaker 1: souped up cars and trucks with these weapons whose only

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Speaker 1: purpose was to kill with other human beings. Running Smokes

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Speaker 1: the production of Campsite Media, dan Patrick Productions, and Workhouse Media.

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Speaker 1: The series was written and reported by me Rogi Goa.

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Speaker 1: Our producers are Leah Papes, Blaine Gerbig, and Julie Dennischet.

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00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:23,959
Speaker 1: Our editors are Michelle Lands and Emily Martinez. Sound designed

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Speaker 1: and original music by Mark McAdam, Additional sound and mixing

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00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 1: by Ewen Lye from Ewan additional reporting by Susie McCartney,

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Speaker 1: our executive producers or Dan Patrick, Josh Dean of Campside Media,

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00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:39,480
Speaker 1: Paul Anderson, Nicknella, and Andrew Greenwood for Workhouse Media. Fact

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00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 1: checking by Mary Matthis and Angelia Mercado, artwork by Polly Adams,

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00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:46,520
Speaker 1: and additional thanks to Greg Horne, Johnny Kaufman, Sierra Franco,

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Speaker 1: Elizabeth Van Brocklin, and Sean Flynn