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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. I'm Tom Keane Jay Ley.

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Speaker 1: We bring you inside from the best in economics, finance, investment,

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Speaker 1: and international relations. Find Bloomberg Surveillance on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud,

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot Com, and of course on the Bloomberg. Speaking

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Speaker 1: of exquisite as a gentleman James Bevan from London who

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Speaker 1: has the audacity to actually think long term, and I

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Speaker 1: mean folks longer term than so many that we speak

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Speaker 1: to on Global Wall Street. Here is with ccling joins

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Speaker 1: us right now, James, what is long term for you?

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Speaker 1: Right now? Is long term getting the two thousand twenty

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Speaker 1: one or is long term for you out a decade?

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Speaker 1: Absolutely think we have to have a multi perspective of

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Speaker 1: where value goes. There is no point hang up pop

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Speaker 1: dollars articipate in exty markets current levels unless we are

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Speaker 1: absolutely constant that the corporate earnings numbers are going to

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Speaker 1: come through. Equally, I look upon market yields and they

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Speaker 1: are so far below what I reasonably project the medium

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Speaker 1: term inflation. But I think that they are currently legal

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Speaker 1: fest in many markets. Okay, well that's fine, and so

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Speaker 1: there's the value of cash is cash, Folks. I say

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Speaker 1: this with immense respect for Mr Bevan's institutional advice that

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Speaker 1: he givesn in London, James, is cash an asset for you?

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Speaker 1: Right now? Tom, I'm holding in balanced mandates around ten

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Speaker 1: percentage points in cash. And that's not because I believe

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Speaker 1: the cash long term is getting delivered the returns consistent

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Speaker 1: with investors expectations, but because I worry about the frigidity

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Speaker 1: of the exty market rally from the twenty three March

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Speaker 1: lay what we have seen and you will absolutely recognize

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Speaker 1: this is a huge expansion of the multiple and investors

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Speaker 1: are being asked to pay to participate in equity market prospects.

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Speaker 1: And I would say that that drive has been the

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Speaker 1: result of the Federal Reserve, the US government growing an

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Speaker 1: awful lot of liquidity at market, rather than any fundamental

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Speaker 1: perspectives of whether or not value is still available at

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Speaker 1: these levels. To cut the chase, I think that we

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Speaker 1: will see about a hundred and twenty dollars for SMP

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Speaker 1: five hundred earnings this year and about a hundred and

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Speaker 1: fifty dollars for one. Now, if I were paying eighteen

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Speaker 1: or nineteen times the twenty twenty one earnings at the

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Speaker 1: end of this year. That would give me in a

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Speaker 1: year end target for the SMP five hundred points, and

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Speaker 1: we're already and that leads me to worry about what

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Speaker 1: will happen to market if we don't get the V

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Speaker 1: shaped recovery. Now the market is busy saying it no

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Speaker 1: longer thanks, we're going to get a V shaped recovery,

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Speaker 1: and yet equity markets continue to plow higher, and that

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Speaker 1: disconnect worries me and hence my appetite a little bit

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Speaker 1: more cash. James. The liquidity definitely is a story, and

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Speaker 1: certainly in the United States, people are putting their faith

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Speaker 1: in the federal reserve and ongoing fiscal stimulus from Congress.

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Speaker 1: In Europe, however, I'm wondering how much that faith will

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Speaker 1: get shaken by the recent decision by the German court

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Speaker 1: system based on this idea that perhaps the ECB could

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Speaker 1: be challenged in the future with respect particularly to their

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Speaker 1: peripheral bond purchases. We do see Italian yields rising the

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Speaker 1: euro weakening. Do you expect that to continue? I find

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Speaker 1: the European situation truly fascinating. We've not yet got the

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Speaker 1: details from the European Central Bank of the Target to

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Speaker 1: lending numbers. What we do know is that they have

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Speaker 1: risen to an all time high. Now I have attempted

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Speaker 1: to analyze borrowing from the target to system. Now we

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Speaker 1: know the Germany and the other northern countries have been

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Speaker 1: providing cash into the Target two system. The market focus

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Speaker 1: as you have identified as Honestaly, but actually when I

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Speaker 1: trace what's going on with the Italian economy and markets,

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Speaker 1: I don't think that Italy is the principal problem. I

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Speaker 1: think the two problem areas actually are Spain, because Spain

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Speaker 1: is facing capital flight at the moment, and therefore he's

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Speaker 1: likely drawing heavily on Target too. And equally the French banks.

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Speaker 1: I think that many people probably don't appreciate that a

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Speaker 1: lot of the cash created by the Federal Reserve through

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Speaker 1: its constitated easing programs ends up being taken by the

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Speaker 1: French banks via the ECB and then relent to emerging markets.

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Speaker 1: What is an effect to carry trade? And I suspect

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Speaker 1: that the French banks now represent very high risk investments.

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Speaker 1: What is your exposure look like to European financials at

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Speaker 1: the moment, James always nel John, I look at the

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Speaker 1: problems of Eurozone. I absolutely am not predicting that the

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Speaker 1: euro will break, but I find it very hard to

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Speaker 1: see European financials to make any sensible money in the

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Speaker 1: climate of negative interest rates, I mean awful. What we

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Speaker 1: have in the German banking system are the requirement to

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Speaker 1: the bundess Bank to provide money into target to in

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Speaker 1: order to satisfy the requirements of the European central bands.

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Speaker 1: The bundness Banks don't have any of its own money.

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Speaker 1: It calls on capital from the commercial banks and then,

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Speaker 1: to add insult to injury, then sends them a bill

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Speaker 1: because of negative interest rates. It doesn't sound like an

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Speaker 1: investment opportunity for many people listen to the program either.

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Speaker 1: I agree, James. I'm leaning on the conversation that you

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Speaker 1: and I have had over the chunk of the best

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Speaker 1: part of a decade. I remember a manner used to

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Speaker 1: like the UK banks, the UK financials, Lloyd's Barclays. Where

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Speaker 1: do you stand on those names those institutions now, James, Well,

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Speaker 1: I think that the UK colony is going to have

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Speaker 1: an absolutely miserable time, and therefore I think that the

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Speaker 1: UK banks are gained to be squeezed quite horribly and

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Speaker 1: I think he's going to be a combination of squeezed

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Speaker 1: by fundamental reality, so many businesses again to fail and

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Speaker 1: simply shut up shop through the current crisis. And at

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Speaker 1: the same time, I really didn't think that the government,

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Speaker 1: having provided money to support the banks into a live

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Speaker 1: shareholders to make super normal returns against that back clost.

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Speaker 1: I do think that the UK banks are a bad

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Speaker 1: place to be right now. James Bevan, thank you so much,

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Speaker 1: really really brilliant, Thank you, Thank you so much for

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Speaker 1: cl a Here's a quote from the global research team

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Speaker 1: at JP Morgan. The V shaped recovery playing out in

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Speaker 1: many asset class has raised hopes that we will see

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Speaker 1: a similar V shaped economic recovery, but this appears unlikely

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Speaker 1: to play out. The global recovery coming out of the

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Speaker 1: lockdown is best described as a wave and not a letter. Tom.

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Speaker 1: I love the idea of a wave and in the

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Speaker 1: Molti dimension in all the other Joyce Shane is head

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Speaker 1: of research at JP Morgan. She's done a spectacular job

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Speaker 1: and getting our attention in particularly we're shockingly prescient on

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Speaker 1: a glide path to a weaker China GDP. Joy's just

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Speaker 1: to begin here and give you a modest victory lap,

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Speaker 1: even if the circumstances were a surprise on the China collapse,

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Speaker 1: is there signs at JP Morgan sees at China's recovering,

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Speaker 1: so John gets a different alphabet soup of recovery. Well,

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Speaker 1: the only country that I actually think is going to

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Speaker 1: look V shaped is actually China. The rest of it

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Speaker 1: is a wave, a fishhook, a Nike splush, whatever you

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Speaker 1: want to call it. The China's GDP in the first

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Speaker 1: quarter was down thirty in the US was down five.

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Speaker 1: Euro Area down almost a team percent. So China in

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Speaker 1: the second quarter we see coming back in a very

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Speaker 1: V shaped way and sustaining that. And that's because you

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Speaker 1: know their ability to prevent a second wave and really

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Speaker 1: clamped down UM I think is still in a very

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Speaker 1: different place than some of the other advanced economies UM

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Speaker 1: which just don't have the capability of doing that. So

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Speaker 1: China's recovery I do think will be V shaped. But

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Speaker 1: we're talking one pc growth here. We started the year

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Speaker 1: at five point nine, so it is a massive slow down,

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Speaker 1: a fourteen and a half percent of GDP deficit, which

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Speaker 1: exceeds what they did during the global financial costs but

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Speaker 1: I think they will see something more v shaped than

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Speaker 1: the rest of the world. There's a well known quote

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Speaker 1: from the British economist Ronald cos and it goes as follows,

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Speaker 1: if you torture the data long enough, it will confess

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Speaker 1: to anything. Pretty much, everyone is torturing the data right now,

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Speaker 1: and it's confessing to anything. And what always find fascinating

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Speaker 1: about moments like these, Joyce, and I'm sure you'll appreciate this,

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Speaker 1: is that we all have the same data in front

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Speaker 1: of us. We come up with radical different, differently ideas

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Speaker 1: about radically different ideas about the future. And I'm just

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Speaker 1: wanting to enjoyce how you look at the data today

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Speaker 1: and extrapolate that out to come up with what a

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Speaker 1: recovery looks like. Well, I think you've got to look

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Speaker 1: at the data, but then you also have to see

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Speaker 1: that it was markets first and that was the shape,

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Speaker 1: so everybody then wanted the economy to be shape. Then

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Speaker 1: you had the everybody's that the virus will be even

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Speaker 1: more death more extended. And now you're seeing that everything

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Speaker 1: is restarting, so everybody's hopeful that the economies were starting.

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Speaker 1: That's what they want to see right now, And there

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Speaker 1: are signs of that. When you shut down so much,

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Speaker 1: some of it will come back, but whether it can

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Speaker 1: be sustained that's the real question mark. And when we

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Speaker 1: talk about V shaped, we really look at what will

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Speaker 1: happen by the end of one and here we think

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Speaker 1: that you're going to have nearly four percentage points off

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Speaker 1: a global growth, So it's not V shaped when you

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Speaker 1: look at this on a two year view at all. Joyce,

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Speaker 1: I guess that there's a tension here between perhaps a

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Speaker 1: lack of a V shaped recovery, but the massive federers

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Speaker 1: are of stimulus and the stimulus coming from the fiscal

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Speaker 1: governments around the world. I mean this idea that that

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Speaker 1: will support valuations as much as though we were getting

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Speaker 1: a V shaped recovery in the economic data, and so

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Speaker 1: it doesn't necessarily matter if we don't get the underlying

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Speaker 1: statistics to justify it. Do you buy this this sort

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Speaker 1: of don't fight the FED mantra that worked for more

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Speaker 1: than a decade, Well, don't fight the FED has definitely

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Speaker 1: been a story so far because you have the sharpest

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Speaker 1: sell off in March and also one of the sharpest

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Speaker 1: rebounds in April. So you've got to expect some consolidation here,

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Speaker 1: but the real question is is the said a backstop

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Speaker 1: so you don't drop further, but isn't really is it

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Speaker 1: a stimulus? Um are we going to actually see that

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Speaker 1: stimulus play through? And that's where you know there's still

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Speaker 1: real question marks on what the growth glide path is

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Speaker 1: going to look like going forward. So you know you're

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Speaker 1: gonna see, given such a sharp quarterly drop, that there

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Speaker 1: will be a rebound, but whether that can be sustained

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Speaker 1: over the course of the remainder of the year and

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Speaker 1: then the next year is the real question mark. You've

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Speaker 1: got the geopolitics that we're still going to have to

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Speaker 1: watch in all of the selections. The court ruling um

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Speaker 1: in in Germany also shows that there's still a lack

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Speaker 1: of cohesion within the euro Area. Tell me what your

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Speaker 1: team is stealed for Friday at eight thirty when we

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Speaker 1: get an unemployment rate that no one alive in America

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Speaker 1: has ever experienced. I mean tip from from Bruce Kasman

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Speaker 1: on down to your lowliest of you know, number crunchers.

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Speaker 1: What's going to happen at when we see unemployment rate? Well,

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Speaker 1: the unemployment members are just staggering. There's nothing that we

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Speaker 1: could have even had in any scenario or imagination. Um.

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Speaker 1: You know, on our part, I mean twenty five million unemployed.

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Speaker 1: You know, you could just be thirty million unemployed. I

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Speaker 1: mean the whole population of the state of New York

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Speaker 1: is nineteen million. So I think that, you know, the

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Speaker 1: question really will be that the way these programs are

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Speaker 1: designed is that they are not permanent. They're supposed to

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Speaker 1: self liquidate when the economy is restored. Can you really

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Speaker 1: restore these jobs as we get into later in the year,

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Speaker 1: and which ones on the services side are are going

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Speaker 1: to linger and still have an unemployment rate that could

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Speaker 1: still be around ten percent even that comes off of

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Speaker 1: the peak. That's the real question, and that's the real

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Speaker 1: question for the gross story, Um. And also whether you're

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Speaker 1: going to see more stimulus packages necessary, and we are

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Speaker 1: seeing now that the congress um, the Senate's gone back

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Speaker 1: in the session the House next week, I think you

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Speaker 1: will see another stimulus package because of these unemployment numbers. Joyce,

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Speaker 1: we appreciate its on this morning. I always fantastic to

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Speaker 1: get your views on this program. JP Morgan, Chair of

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Speaker 1: Global Research, That Joyce Chang on the latest what they're

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Speaker 1: sink in this market and this globe economy. With this,

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Speaker 1: Michael Faro of JP, Morgan Michael, all of us and

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Speaker 1: you and Bruce Kasman and your team have to get

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Speaker 1: to the Friday report. I believe you are published at

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Speaker 1: fifteen percent unemployment rate. How does that tilt give us

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Speaker 1: a little bit of understanding of the band that you

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Speaker 1: have around your good statistical guesses. Yeah, so it's obviously

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Speaker 1: a lot wider than you. I think the important, one,

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Speaker 1: very important consideration here is that the way before participation rate,

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Speaker 1: which is the share of the over sixteen population not

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Speaker 1: looking for the opper hazard job, that could come down

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Speaker 1: quite a bit, which would actually uh make the unemployment

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Speaker 1: rate look lower than it would otherwise. So I think

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Speaker 1: in an absence of a job in the participation that

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Speaker 1: we could be seeing an unemployment rate closer. But again,

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Speaker 1: even all those numbers, yeah, taken and taken together, I

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Speaker 1: think there is a huge amount of uncertainty. I think

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Speaker 1: most of us have been uh using the weekly jobless

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Speaker 1: claims numbers as are beacon and in this fog. But

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Speaker 1: even those numbers I think could be distorted by administrative backlogs,

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Speaker 1: by a variety of conflating factors. I think the only

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Speaker 1: thing we know is going to be a really terrible report. Uh.

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Speaker 1: The other thing to keep in mind is that for

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Speaker 1: the Establishment Survey, which surveys gets us that non farm

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Speaker 1: payroll headline number, there may be some reporting issues there

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Speaker 1: because it's generally nonresponding firms. The response of other firms,

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Speaker 1: UH for those uh, those nonresponding firms, but a lot

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Speaker 1: of firms that you know just basically shut down and

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Speaker 1: UH in April, I won't have anyone in the office

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Speaker 1: to respond to the Labor department when they when they

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Speaker 1: do their monthly surface because there's a lot of sources

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Speaker 1: of distortions here that I think it's safe to say

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Speaker 1: it's going to be an epic number in terms of

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Speaker 1: how bad it has to pitch up with labor market. Michael,

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Speaker 1: what do you say to people who say, we know

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Speaker 1: this number is going to be ugly and for that

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Speaker 1: reason we can move on and look through it. What

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Speaker 1: do you say to them? I would say, flow down.

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Speaker 1: I think it's first important to gauge the depth of

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Speaker 1: the whole that we're going to be digging out of. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and we're not even that we're going to have that

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Speaker 1: you know, done with this labor market report, because there

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Speaker 1: is some concern that, for instance, when the PPP funds

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Speaker 1: which are available to its protection program funds which small

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Speaker 1: businesses have to maintain their payrolls for eight weeks, when

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Speaker 1: those funds potentially run out starting later this month, dra

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Speaker 1: on into you could see a second wave of way else.

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Speaker 1: So don't even yet know the depth of the whole

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Speaker 1: would be out of it, but I think it is

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Speaker 1: important to know how big that whole is, and then

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Speaker 1: not that the bigger questions become, uh, you know, how

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Speaker 1: fast we can returns from normal economic activity? Obviously the

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Speaker 1: bigger how fast it's safe to reopen them? But then

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Speaker 1: even condition on that, there's a lot of un how

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Speaker 1: uh businesses and households with their balances and maintain their

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Speaker 1: balance and are able to resume normal economic activity, you know,

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Speaker 1: just talking about the composition of businesses going forward. There's

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Speaker 1: been a lot of focus on how small businesses have

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Speaker 1: gotten disproportionately hit, with one government survey showing that forty

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Speaker 1: of smaller businesses in the United States expect to close

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Speaker 1: down if the shut shutdowns last for six months. I'm

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Speaker 1: just wondering how much you expect the small business world

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Speaker 1: landscape to shrink in the wake of the is consolidating

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Speaker 1: power in the largest companies and what that does in

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Speaker 1: terms of salaries, in terms of productivity based on what

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Speaker 1: we've seen over the past few years. Yeah, so I

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Speaker 1: think that's this gade. It's hard to do the affirmed

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Speaker 1: number on what we think about that, but our estimate

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Speaker 1: on that. But what I would say is that even

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Speaker 1: pro to this, uh, this event we're living through, there

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Speaker 1: had been a trend towards increasing the concentration of activity

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Speaker 1: in the hands that you are you are companies in

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Speaker 1: each sector, and that seems like it's only going to intensify.

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Speaker 1: And I think there was some a lot of concern

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Speaker 1: about what what that concentration had met. I think one

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Speaker 1: of the implications was that it meant to decline at

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Speaker 1: a labor share of total national income. So is this

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Speaker 1: accelerates that trend, which seems almost certain. I think that

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Speaker 1: you may see a continued strenthage of the share of

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Speaker 1: national income going to labor. And I think that's one

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Speaker 1: of potentially many h implications of leaving activity into you know,

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Speaker 1: and basically a publicly traded company. So before this episode.

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Speaker 1: Publicly company is kind of employment. We often look at

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Speaker 1: the stock market as some kind of reflection of the

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Speaker 1: health of the economy. It's a reflection of a third

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Speaker 1: of the economy. By coming forward and made, it's reflecting

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Speaker 1: a greater share of Michael Ferli, thank you so much.

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Speaker 1: Really look forward to the updates through the week and

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Speaker 1: of course your weekly prospects out this weekend. Dr Feroli

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Speaker 1: with JP Morgan is well, I've really been looking forward

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Speaker 1: to this because this is a small little book that

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Speaker 1: is a true best seller. It is rare that you

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Speaker 1: see a policy book fly off the Amazon shelves. But

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Speaker 1: that's what economic dignity is. That's what it's doing for

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Speaker 1: Gene Spurling. Do you know I want to cut to

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Speaker 1: the chase, and of course I do want to point

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Speaker 1: out Jean's former employment with Bloomberg, but more importantly his

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Speaker 1: employ him and as Lisa mentioned, with President Clinton and

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Speaker 1: then President Obama. Jane, I know that every progressive liberal

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Speaker 1: Democrat is going to read this and they're gonna say

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Speaker 1: it's great. I want you to talk about the disaffected

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Speaker 1: independent or the disaffected Republican that Joe Biden has to

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Speaker 1: convince to vote for him. What should they get out

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Speaker 1: of economic dignity? I think what they should get is

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Speaker 1: that they understand that there should be a dignity compact

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Speaker 1: in our country. People expect that everyone's going to do

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Speaker 1: their part, that they're going to try to carry their

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Speaker 1: share of the load. But what we see at this moment, Tom,

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Speaker 1: is we see a moment more clear than we've really

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Speaker 1: had in our lifetimes, where we see the dignity and

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Speaker 1: value of all work. We are looking at farm workers

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Speaker 1: and delivery workers and nursing assistance who are literally saving

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Speaker 1: our lives and and ask and are just asking, can

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Speaker 1: uh they be treated not just with applause, but with

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Speaker 1: actual economic dignity. And that doesn't mean, you know, that's

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Speaker 1: not about, you know, some big socialist endeavor. That's about

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Speaker 1: should you get paid a dignity, ways you can raise

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Speaker 1: your family. Should everybody be able to take time off

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Speaker 1: if their parents is dying or there is a newborn child,

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Speaker 1: or to care for themselves. You know, these are basic things.

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Speaker 1: And we're feeling the dissonance, Tom, We're feeling the dissonance

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Speaker 1: of saying these workers workers like farm workers, workers like

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Speaker 1: nursing assistant, homemade we realize they're helping to save our lives,

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Speaker 1: and we have to ask, is it right that they

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Speaker 1: can't care for their their own families? Uh? You know,

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Speaker 1: I think I have. I have three killers. I talked

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Speaker 1: about that before we get into the pillars, though, I

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Speaker 1: think that we want to talk about another dissonance. It's

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Speaker 1: very very present in our minds, and that's what we're

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Speaker 1: gonna be getting on Friday with that job's report, which

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Speaker 1: will likely be the worst in history. There's the basic

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Speaker 1: need that you speak of, the basic needs, but then

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Speaker 1: there's the also basic need for a salary at all

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Speaker 1: or any wages whatsoever. How do we preserve economic dignity

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Speaker 1: at a time when one in five Americans probably more

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Speaker 1: than that have don't have a job? Right? Look, I

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Speaker 1: think when we're looking at the different things to get

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Speaker 1: through this period, which is far different, I really think

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Speaker 1: than almost any recession that we've ever dealt with, which

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Speaker 1: is a freezing of the economy. It's a shutting down

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Speaker 1: of a lot of economy economy, and people realize that

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Speaker 1: people are are without jobs at no fault of their

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Speaker 1: own they are. This is a result of this pandemic.

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Speaker 1: And so I think the two most important things is

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Speaker 1: to try to make people whole in the sense of

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Speaker 1: ensuring that they've got that paycheck wild this is going

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Speaker 1: on that allows them to pay the rent, not lose

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Speaker 1: their home, make the car payment, put food on the table,

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Speaker 1: be there for their children and their family. And so

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Speaker 1: I think that I would say the most important is

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Speaker 1: is again on making people hold. There's two ways being

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Speaker 1: proposed to do it. One is that you have an

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Speaker 1: unemployment check that tries to be as close as possible

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Speaker 1: to a of your paycheck till we get past the

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Speaker 1: speriod percent employment, or some people are suggesting, as they

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Speaker 1: do in Europe, that you essentially pay that unemployment through

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Speaker 1: the employer keep people connected to the job and their

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Speaker 1: health care. But I will say that we're going to

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Speaker 1: also have to do more to make sure people can

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Speaker 1: keep their health care, because if so many people are

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Speaker 1: losing their job, you're going to see more people falling

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Speaker 1: off healthcare. I think all of these are the are

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Speaker 1: the most central things to do through what could be

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Speaker 1: a very long job obversession. If you're just joining us

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Speaker 1: economic dignity. Gene Spurling. It's a controversial book across the

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Speaker 1: political spectrum of this nation, Jane, I I mentioned Vice

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Speaker 1: President of Biden. He's gonna have to go out there

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Speaker 1: and we get the popular vote at the electoral vote.

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Speaker 1: And that I want you to address the theory of

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Speaker 1: your book and the gene spurling pitbull terrier pragmatic liberalism

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Speaker 1: that you are, let's say, Connor Lamb. Outside Pittsburgh, you

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Speaker 1: have mainstream, middle of the road conservative Democrats running from

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Speaker 1: progressive democratic theory. How do they fold economic dignity into

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Speaker 1: their congressional districts that are so contentious? You know, I

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Speaker 1: don't think it's hard at all. I mean, I'll give

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Speaker 1: you an example of why you talk about independent voters.

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Speaker 1: Higher minimum wage has always been popular with many with

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Speaker 1: with many of the independent voters. Why because they understand

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Speaker 1: that if a person is working hard, that they should

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Speaker 1: be able to raise their family with a degree of dignity.

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Speaker 1: And all I suggest in the book is that our

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Speaker 1: fundamental guiding north star shouldn't just be, you know, some

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Speaker 1: GDP metric, but whether you can care for your family

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Speaker 1: and actually not just put food at the table, but

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Speaker 1: be at the table, be there, Whether you have the

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Speaker 1: pursuit ability to pursue your purpose and potential and whether

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Speaker 1: you can work free from domination and humiliation. And I

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Speaker 1: think there are you know, I think you look across

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Speaker 1: this country of the people now be in order to

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Speaker 1: go work and back to meet processing plants. Many of

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Speaker 1: them will be Democrats, will be Republicans. But what are

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Speaker 1: they going to believe? They're gonna believe in the fundamental

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Speaker 1: dignity of work, that they're out there the best, they

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Speaker 1: tend to their family, and that to have a basic

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Speaker 1: floor of economic dignity, of health security is not to

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Speaker 1: ask for a socialist regime. It's too I think fulfill

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Speaker 1: the vision that you heard that that Teddy Roosevelt talked

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Speaker 1: about in when he talked about every job should allow

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Speaker 1: a person to be able to raise their family with

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Speaker 1: a degree of economic security. Gin, I want to congratulate

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Speaker 1: you with rare folks to see a book have the

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Speaker 1: impact of economic dignity. It's truly stunning sales off of Amazon,

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Speaker 1: look for that, Gene Sparling. Of course, working at presidents

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Speaker 1: Clinton and Obama, it is a controversial, thought provoking effort

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Speaker 1: economic dignity. Gene, thank you as so much suspend beneath

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Speaker 1: the radar, but it is important, important, important. We spoke

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Speaker 1: with Michelle Patch this morning our francy in the quad.

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Speaker 1: Did Michelle is in the heart of nursing the Johns

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Speaker 1: Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health. I should mention that

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Speaker 1: Michael Bloomberg, the founder of Bloomberg LP on this radio

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Speaker 1: and TV platform as well as a philanthropist to his

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Speaker 1: Johns Hopkins University, and the topic was exceptional important and

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Speaker 1: that is this virus appears to be causing damaging blood plots.

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Speaker 1: So just a little background, I guess on what is plotting? Right?

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Speaker 1: Are are the human body? Actually we have an incredible

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Speaker 1: ability to try and heal ourselves. So for instance, when

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Speaker 1: you have an injury to a blood vessel, say you're

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Speaker 1: cutting tomatoes and you inadvertently slips and you cut your finger. Um,

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Speaker 1: those the blood vessels around that try to contract and

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Speaker 1: stop losing blood, and then you have several different cells

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Speaker 1: and proteins that will respond to that area and quickly

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Speaker 1: try to build a plot or turn that liquid blood

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Speaker 1: into solid so that you're not losing additional blood. So

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Speaker 1: usually this would be helpful and protective for us. What

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Speaker 1: we're seeing though, in various types of severe illness, including

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Speaker 1: some of our patients with COVID nineteen. Is there's the

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00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 1: potential for this just UM to really function in an

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00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 1: overdrive setting. Um. We clearly, as you mentioned, you know,

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Speaker 1: more study is needed and this is complex, uh, and

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Speaker 1: we're learning more and more every day. UM. But it's

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Speaker 1: possible that bodies immune response, including that cyte a kind

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Speaker 1: of storm and trying so desperately to heal UM may

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Speaker 1: be associated with this increased clotting. Additionally, when you think

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Speaker 1: about very ill individuals who are immobile there on you know,

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Speaker 1: in a hospital bed, um, on a ventilator, and are

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00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:42,000
Speaker 1: not able to move themselves, you can get pooling of

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Speaker 1: the blood UM that can develop clots, and those clots

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Speaker 1: have the risk of breaking off and floating to different

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00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:52,720
Speaker 1: areas of the bodies such as the lungs. UM, and

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00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 1: you can get problems with your body is able to

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Speaker 1: use oxygen UM. And we're also on force currently in

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Speaker 1: some cases being clapped to the brain UM leading to stroke. Um, Michelle,

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Speaker 1: When you look at the virus, how is it actually

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Speaker 1: changing nursing? How's it changing the way that nursing is

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Speaker 1: organized some of the command centers and the first responders.

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Speaker 1: Oh sure so, UM, I think if you had asked

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Speaker 1: us a few months ago, UM, we may not have

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Speaker 1: said that we anticipate UM as nurses being UM as

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Speaker 1: UM as ubiquitous as we are in all of the

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Speaker 1: efforts for the UM. But for instance, we have many

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Speaker 1: of our nurses who are functioning within incident command centers

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00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:45,960
Speaker 1: across Hopkins and UM Hopkins Affiliates UM in order to

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00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 1: coordinate and facilitate our combined efforts. And that is around

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00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:57,199
Speaker 1: the logistics the operations. How do we get the supplies

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00:27:57,320 --> 00:27:59,359
Speaker 1: we need, how do we get them to the front

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00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:02,840
Speaker 1: line as quickly as possible and to the right areas,

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00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 1: as well as nurses being UM there as decision makers

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Speaker 1: and helping the greater team to decide when should we

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Speaker 1: UM actually launch certain types of UH pressure negative pressure

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00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:26,159
Speaker 1: units of biomode units that helped to containue the virus

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Speaker 1: and provide the best care for all of our patients

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Speaker 1: UM COVID and non COVID alike. So it really has

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Speaker 1: been a unique experience for many of us UM, but

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Speaker 1: one that I think we are very prepared to UM

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Speaker 1: be working so closely with our colleagues to help fights.

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Speaker 1: Michelle Patch, the Johns Hopkins University and conversation with Francine.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Surveillance podcast. Subscribe and

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00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 1: listen to interviews on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, or whichever podcast

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00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 1: platform you prefer. I'm on Twitter at Tom Keene before

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00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 1: the podcast. You can always catch us worldwide. I'm Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Radio