WEBVTT - J. Walter Sterling & David Roberts 0:00:00.640 --> 0:00:04.160 Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics, 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:07.120 where we discussed the top political headlines with some of 0:00:07.160 --> 0:00:10.520 today's best minds. We're on vacation, but that doesn't mean 0:00:10.560 --> 0:00:13.119 we don't have a great show for you today. The 0:00:13.160 --> 0:00:16.920 president of Saint John's College, Jay Walter Sterling, stops by 0:00:17.000 --> 0:00:19.840 to talk to us about why the classics. 0:00:19.360 --> 0:00:21.079 Matter even more than ever. 0:00:21.360 --> 0:00:25.800 But first we have Volts newsletter David Roberts to talk 0:00:25.840 --> 0:00:28.120 about climate change and what it all means. 0:00:28.520 --> 0:00:32.320 David Roberts, I always want to call you, doctor Volts. 0:00:32.520 --> 0:00:34.560 Welcome back, Hello, Good to be back. 0:00:34.760 --> 0:00:38.159 Is it a bad time to write about climate Not really. 0:00:38.600 --> 0:00:40.600 It's sort of like, you know how they're always seeing 0:00:40.640 --> 0:00:43.360 like the media liked it when Trump came back, even 0:00:43.400 --> 0:00:45.279 though it's horrible for the country, it's good for them. 0:00:45.479 --> 0:00:47.320 It's a little bit of that going on right now. 0:00:47.360 --> 0:00:51.280 There is no shortage of things to write about, no 0:00:51.360 --> 0:00:53.200 shortage of things going on, good and bad. 0:00:54.000 --> 0:00:57.720 I'd love something good since we're all so fucking depressed. 0:00:58.040 --> 0:01:00.200 Though I did just eat four pieces of chocolate to 0:01:00.320 --> 0:01:04.080 drink five die Cokes, so I'm actually feeling pretty good. 0:01:04.080 --> 0:01:07.279 But give us something to not want to die over. 0:01:08.080 --> 0:01:10.560 Well, the things that have been going on for the 0:01:10.600 --> 0:01:13.520 last decade are still going on. Basically, solar and wind 0:01:13.520 --> 0:01:16.600 are getting cheaper and cheaper, batteries are getting cheaper and cheaper. 0:01:16.720 --> 0:01:20.360 Business models are updating to help spread those things. You know, 0:01:20.480 --> 0:01:25.760 Electrification is proceeding like crazy. China is producing so much 0:01:25.880 --> 0:01:31.000 cheap solar panels that they're decarbonizing their neighbors, Pakistan and 0:01:31.120 --> 0:01:36.000 what Vietnam, Africa Now they're starting to import solar panels. 0:01:36.040 --> 0:01:39.360 So all the rest of the world, like literally the 0:01:39.360 --> 0:01:41.920 rest of the world is going forward. 0:01:42.160 --> 0:01:44.160 It's going to be going before we are. 0:01:44.360 --> 0:01:47.120 We are literally getting off a train that has just 0:01:47.160 --> 0:01:50.320 now sort of reached a speed that it's unstoppable. It's 0:01:50.480 --> 0:01:54.920 unstoppable freight train towards clean electrification, and right at this juncture, 0:01:55.160 --> 0:01:58.800 we're basically hopping off the train trying to kill our 0:01:59.200 --> 0:02:02.080 domestic solar and wind industries and trying to double down 0:02:02.120 --> 0:02:05.760 on fossil fuels. So no good news from within the US, 0:02:05.800 --> 0:02:08.280 as you're very aware, but lots of good news elsewhere. 0:02:08.360 --> 0:02:10.600 So let's talk about this because this has along been 0:02:10.680 --> 0:02:14.960 the thesis of my long suffering spouse, which is solar 0:02:15.520 --> 0:02:20.600 and wind is going to be so cheap that it's irresistible. 0:02:20.880 --> 0:02:22.160 Well, it already is. 0:02:22.440 --> 0:02:24.840 I mean, I forget the exact figure that the IEA 0:02:25.000 --> 0:02:28.120 came out with, but something like eighty to ninety percent 0:02:28.639 --> 0:02:32.240 of the new power generation being built in the world 0:02:32.840 --> 0:02:36.560 is solar and wind like it already is irresistible. It 0:02:36.600 --> 0:02:40.320 already is the cheapest thing. And batteries now are getting 0:02:40.919 --> 0:02:43.280 just as cheap, and that is solving a lot of 0:02:43.320 --> 0:02:46.799 the you know problems of variability. You know, it comes 0:02:46.840 --> 0:02:49.240 and goes with the weather. Batteries are smoothing that out. 0:02:49.360 --> 0:02:55.240 Demand response is smoothing that out, So that is already happening. 0:02:55.680 --> 0:02:58.320 That's why most of the new power generation that is 0:02:58.360 --> 0:03:00.880 going into effect in the world is clean. 0:03:01.480 --> 0:03:06.480 So building coal plants or building fossil fuel plants or 0:03:06.520 --> 0:03:10.919 build a drill, baby drill or coal, they're just much 0:03:10.960 --> 0:03:13.280 more expensive, right. I mean, we're going to do it 0:03:13.320 --> 0:03:16.480 here because Trump wants to help those industries. But that's 0:03:16.520 --> 0:03:18.639 why our electricity is going up here. 0:03:18.760 --> 0:03:21.440 Right, Well, there are a couple of things going on 0:03:21.560 --> 0:03:25.760 with the electricity prices going up that is not generation. 0:03:26.160 --> 0:03:31.000 The actual costs of generation are going down, mainly because 0:03:31.240 --> 0:03:33.360 all of the solar and wind is coming onl what's 0:03:33.400 --> 0:03:36.760 going up, what's pushing prices up is mostly what's called 0:03:36.840 --> 0:03:40.360 T and D transmission and distribution. It is getting the 0:03:40.440 --> 0:03:43.840 power to us. Those are where costs are going up 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:46.920 and up because we have not maintained our transmission system. 0:03:46.920 --> 0:03:50.320 We haven't built enough new transmission. All our distribution systems, 0:03:50.320 --> 0:03:54.800 the local systems are very old and aging and very analog. 0:03:55.360 --> 0:03:59.200 So there's a lot of just updating of the system side. 0:03:59.440 --> 0:04:02.920 That the the infrastructure side of things, that's where a 0:04:02.920 --> 0:04:04.360 lot of costs And there are a lot of other 0:04:04.360 --> 0:04:07.680 things pushing costs up here and there, like wildfire costs 0:04:07.720 --> 0:04:12.080 in California or in Georgia they built this giant nuclear. 0:04:11.720 --> 0:04:12.720 Plant that they're paying off. 0:04:12.760 --> 0:04:14.040 You know, there are a lot of different and in 0:04:14.120 --> 0:04:17.679 Virginia it's data centers. There's a lot of different things 0:04:17.760 --> 0:04:20.159 going on. They all point to the need to build 0:04:20.200 --> 0:04:23.320 a more robust electricity system basically. 0:04:22.880 --> 0:04:26.160 But data centers, we are just having to pay for 0:04:26.360 --> 0:04:28.520 Google using more electricity. 0:04:28.720 --> 0:04:28.920 Yeah. 0:04:28.960 --> 0:04:32.200 Well, there's a lot of people working right now. There's 0:04:32.240 --> 0:04:33.919 a lot of thinking going on. I mean, one of 0:04:33.960 --> 0:04:36.359 the sort of hot topics in Maya area of the 0:04:36.360 --> 0:04:39.720 world right now is how because these data centers need 0:04:39.760 --> 0:04:41.320 to hook up to the grid. If you build a 0:04:41.400 --> 0:04:43.559 data center and you're waiting to hook up to the grid, 0:04:43.720 --> 0:04:47.120 you are literally wasting millions of dollars a day in 0:04:47.200 --> 0:04:50.520 opportunity costs. So these people desperately want to hook up 0:04:50.760 --> 0:04:53.039 to the grid, but there's no room for them on 0:04:53.120 --> 0:04:57.080 the grid. So how can we get them to pay 0:04:57.240 --> 0:05:00.599 for the reforms that would make room on the grid? 0:05:00.760 --> 0:05:00.960 Right? 0:05:01.000 --> 0:05:03.880 How can we get them to pay for grid upgrades 0:05:04.080 --> 0:05:06.720 rather than us paying for them? How can we get 0:05:06.720 --> 0:05:09.240 a little money out of them to pay to upgrade 0:05:09.240 --> 0:05:11.719 our grid? And the amount of money molly that is 0:05:11.800 --> 0:05:15.000 going into AI and data centers, you would need like 0:05:15.240 --> 0:05:18.360 two or three percent of that money and you could 0:05:18.360 --> 0:05:21.960 transform the US electricity system just a little bit of 0:05:22.000 --> 0:05:24.800 money from that world. You could make a much more 0:05:24.920 --> 0:05:28.400 robust and resilient electricity grid. And there's lots of people 0:05:28.400 --> 0:05:30.920 thinking about how to work that. So, you know, the 0:05:31.000 --> 0:05:33.039 data center comes to the utility says I want to 0:05:33.040 --> 0:05:35.159 hook up. The utility says, well, we don't have any room, 0:05:35.440 --> 0:05:38.000 and the data center says, well, okay, I'll go pay 0:05:38.120 --> 0:05:41.920 to put solar and storage systems on residential houses. I'll 0:05:41.960 --> 0:05:46.279 go pay to replace electrical resistance heating with heat pumps, etcetera, etcetera. 0:05:46.320 --> 0:05:48.400 I'll go pay to do all that stuff, you give 0:05:48.440 --> 0:05:50.600 me credit for it, then let me on the grid. 0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:53.400 So then the actual rate payers get something out of it, 0:05:53.720 --> 0:05:56.400 utility gets something out of it, and the data center 0:05:56.440 --> 0:05:57.200 gets something out of it. 0:05:57.200 --> 0:05:59.640 There's lots of people trying to figure out how that works. 0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:00.880 Is that going to happen. 0:06:00.920 --> 0:06:03.760 It's hard for me to imagine that something where we 0:06:03.800 --> 0:06:06.360 don't get fucked as a consumers. 0:06:06.680 --> 0:06:11.120 The thing is like data centers have bungled like these 0:06:11.160 --> 0:06:14.240 companies in terms of their PR and their public approach 0:06:14.320 --> 0:06:15.560 are so incompetent. 0:06:15.600 --> 0:06:18.240 They have made enemies of everyone. 0:06:18.400 --> 0:06:24.000 Everyone hates data centers, so they desperately need some good PR. 0:06:24.120 --> 0:06:25.560 And this is good PR for them. 0:06:25.600 --> 0:06:29.400 If they could pay for ordinary people to become more 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:32.200 resilient and have more reliable power, then at least they 0:06:32.200 --> 0:06:35.240 could get a little reputational benefit back. They need a 0:06:35.240 --> 0:06:37.120 PR win. So I think they're kind of over the 0:06:37.120 --> 0:06:39.320 barrel here. And it's kind of the same with utilities. 0:06:39.320 --> 0:06:42.400 Everybody hates utilities too, you know. And if the utility 0:06:42.760 --> 0:06:45.159 is seen to just let this data center come and 0:06:45.279 --> 0:06:47.840 hook up, and then everybody else's costs go up. 0:06:47.880 --> 0:06:50.440 Then everybody hates the utility too, so they also have. 0:06:50.440 --> 0:06:52.560 An incentive to get some money out of a data 0:06:52.560 --> 0:06:54.919 center to pay for this thing. So everybody sort of 0:06:55.000 --> 0:06:58.200 right now everyone hates everyone. So everybody needs to figure 0:06:58.200 --> 0:07:01.440 out how to get some a pr win out of this. 0:07:01.560 --> 0:07:03.159 And one way to do that would be to sort 0:07:03.160 --> 0:07:05.839 of like get something out of the data centers in 0:07:05.960 --> 0:07:07.600 exchange for letting them hook up. 0:07:07.760 --> 0:07:12.120 But let's talk about this thing you wrote about governors. 0:07:12.160 --> 0:07:15.160 You can salvage sustainable transport, but you need to do 0:07:15.200 --> 0:07:15.960 a quick. 0:07:15.800 --> 0:07:20.240 There are provisions, I mean these are somewhat obscure wonky, 0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:24.080 but there are provisions in federal transportation dollars that give 0:07:24.400 --> 0:07:29.640 governors the power to shift those funds from highways to 0:07:29.840 --> 0:07:31.440 non highway spending. 0:07:31.840 --> 0:07:34.120 And all those funds, as. 0:07:33.960 --> 0:07:37.320 You know, are about to get either cut off or 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:42.480 become much more capricious. Let's say, so the money that 0:07:42.600 --> 0:07:45.800 governors have got sitting in their funds right now is 0:07:45.840 --> 0:07:48.880 probably like all that they can rely on, especially for 0:07:49.320 --> 0:07:52.000 non highway stuff. They so a lot of governors just 0:07:52.040 --> 0:07:53.720 don't know they have this power. So the whole point 0:07:53.720 --> 0:07:55.880 of that pology is flag for them, Like you can 0:07:56.120 --> 0:08:00.920 still transfer a bunch of money into transit, public transportation, 0:08:01.240 --> 0:08:03.760 bike paths, et cetera. You can still do that with 0:08:03.800 --> 0:08:06.600 the money you've got now, and you better do it 0:08:06.880 --> 0:08:10.080 because nobody's, at least at the federal level, nobody's going 0:08:10.120 --> 0:08:11.880 to be paying for that stuff for much longer. 0:08:12.200 --> 0:08:14.320 So the rest of the world has gotten on the 0:08:14.320 --> 0:08:18.720 green energy train, right because it's cheaper. You think that 0:08:18.800 --> 0:08:22.560 means we will eventually, I mean, we're going to have 0:08:22.640 --> 0:08:24.000 to write. 0:08:23.680 --> 0:08:26.200 Well, no, I mean one of the more fascinating things 0:08:26.200 --> 0:08:27.960 to think about in my world is what they call 0:08:28.040 --> 0:08:31.280 the mid transition. Like you can imagine when the transition's 0:08:31.360 --> 0:08:35.400 done and everybody's self sufficient with renewable energy, a lot 0:08:35.400 --> 0:08:37.920 of good things in that world, right, being self sufficient 0:08:37.960 --> 0:08:41.199 for energy rather than importing fossil fuels from elsewhere. It's 0:08:41.240 --> 0:08:43.280 a really fundamental change for a lot of countries, and 0:08:43.320 --> 0:08:45.440 it's going to, I think, bring good things. But the 0:08:45.640 --> 0:08:50.000 road from here to there, So as oil demand declines, 0:08:50.480 --> 0:08:54.040 who is selling those last barrels of oil? Who is 0:08:54.120 --> 0:08:57.360 buying those last barrels of oil? What I sort of 0:08:57.440 --> 0:09:00.120 foresee in the next decade or two. Is the the 0:09:00.120 --> 0:09:03.679 rest of the world sprinting ahead with electrification and basically 0:09:03.720 --> 0:09:09.120 a shrinking cabal of fossil fuel states clinging to fossil 0:09:09.120 --> 0:09:11.120 fuels for as long as they can, and that could 0:09:11.200 --> 0:09:13.400 go on for decades. That could go on for a 0:09:13.440 --> 0:09:17.280 long time until China has basically left us behind because 0:09:17.320 --> 0:09:19.959 they what China understands that we don't understand. I really 0:09:20.040 --> 0:09:22.640 want to make this point to everybody who will listen. 0:09:23.040 --> 0:09:26.760 If you want AI dominance, which everybody in the government 0:09:26.880 --> 0:09:31.520 says they do, everybody says I don't. Let's just grant 0:09:31.520 --> 0:09:35.960 the premise if you want AI dominance, you can't get 0:09:36.000 --> 0:09:39.200 that with just models and ideas. You need to own 0:09:39.640 --> 0:09:43.920 the physical substrate that makes it possible, and that is 0:09:44.280 --> 0:09:49.480 electric motors, batteries, magnets, things that you produce like if 0:09:49.520 --> 0:09:52.240 you want AI dominance, you also need to dominate or 0:09:52.280 --> 0:09:55.000 at least have a foot in the supply chain. And 0:09:55.040 --> 0:09:58.240 we have let China eat our lunch on this. They 0:09:58.400 --> 0:10:04.880 own the electrifica technologies, they own the electrification supply chain. 0:10:04.960 --> 0:10:08.040 So even if we achieve something in AI, we're still 0:10:08.040 --> 0:10:11.680 going to be buying all our AI equipment from China, 0:10:11.760 --> 0:10:14.400 who can cut it off anytime they feel like it. 0:10:14.520 --> 0:10:16.079 Right, So, like, even if you. 0:10:16.000 --> 0:10:18.560 Don't care about climate at all, even if you don't 0:10:18.600 --> 0:10:24.400 care about pollution at all, electrification is a national security imperative, 0:10:24.679 --> 0:10:26.720 even if you only care about AI. 0:10:27.240 --> 0:10:29.679 Right, we're kind of coming into this in the most 0:10:29.720 --> 0:10:33.760 fucked up wid possible right most things. 0:10:33.800 --> 0:10:36.000 I'm not sure exactly where you're referring to, but I. 0:10:35.920 --> 0:10:39.520 Agree to get into wind and solar, Like, we'll be 0:10:39.559 --> 0:10:41.160 set up in the worst way possible for this. 0:10:41.440 --> 0:10:44.880 Yes, yeah, it It depends obviously depends on what happens 0:10:44.920 --> 0:10:47.040 in the next few years. And I don't know, you 0:10:47.040 --> 0:10:48.679 don't know, and nobody knows what's gonna happen in next 0:10:48.679 --> 0:10:49.160 few years. 0:10:49.240 --> 0:10:50.640 I mean, maybe Dems. 0:10:50.320 --> 0:10:53.480 Will take power, and like you know, if you listen 0:10:53.559 --> 0:10:56.200 to the Dems talking about their new energy plans, most 0:10:56.200 --> 0:10:58.400 of it is just putting IRA back into place. 0:10:58.559 --> 0:10:59.880 Like we like IRA. 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:03.360 The Inflation Reduction Act was a great bill designed to 0:11:03.480 --> 0:11:06.720 accelerate primarily you know, these industries. So it wouldn't be 0:11:06.720 --> 0:11:10.360 that hard just to put those tax credits back into place. 0:11:10.559 --> 0:11:13.000 You can imagine that happening, and then we wouldn't have 0:11:13.040 --> 0:11:15.040 lost too much time. You know, you can imagine things 0:11:15.080 --> 0:11:17.600 going a lot of different ways, to say the least 0:11:18.320 --> 0:11:20.600 in coming years. So it's not lost yet. 0:11:20.800 --> 0:11:26.040 What about the sort of temperature damage, like the hydrocarbons, 0:11:26.800 --> 0:11:31.600 microplastics in our brains, Like what about the irreversible stuff? 0:11:32.000 --> 0:11:33.520 Yes, this is true for climate. 0:11:33.559 --> 0:11:37.040 Every bit of it is practically speaking irreversible. 0:11:37.120 --> 0:11:38.960 And it's bad and it's still happening. 0:11:39.120 --> 0:11:42.640 And like you know, Trump won and it's just like 0:11:43.000 --> 0:11:46.320 he won by like point zero zero zero one percent, 0:11:46.400 --> 0:11:49.920 and everybody across the nation, just everybody on our side decided, well, 0:11:49.960 --> 0:11:52.280 I guess we suck now and we lose, and everybody 0:11:52.320 --> 0:11:54.800 hates us, and we should stop talking about trands stuff. 0:11:54.840 --> 0:11:56.240 We should toop talking about climate. 0:11:56.240 --> 0:11:57.880 We should stop talking about all the things we care 0:11:57.920 --> 0:11:59.559 about and try to sound. 0:11:59.360 --> 0:12:01.000 Like muted versions of them. 0:12:01.200 --> 0:12:02.880 This is, of course, it's like always the way the 0:12:02.920 --> 0:12:06.840 democratic establishment regards to any loss. So climate has completely 0:12:06.920 --> 0:12:10.560 dropped out of democratic discourse. Like no one talks about 0:12:10.559 --> 0:12:13.360 it anymore, no one, you know, everybody's just decided to 0:12:13.440 --> 0:12:16.000 ignore it. But it is still out there and it 0:12:16.120 --> 0:12:19.320 is still happening, and it is still bad, and I 0:12:19.360 --> 0:12:23.760 think people are still underestimating how bad it's gonna get, 0:12:23.880 --> 0:12:26.520 because there are all these you know, what are they called? 0:12:26.720 --> 0:12:30.320 They call tipping points out there. There's all these thresholds 0:12:30.360 --> 0:12:35.320 that you might pass where things start reinforcing themselves and 0:12:35.440 --> 0:12:40.000 become effectively unstoppable. Where are those tipping points? We don't know. 0:12:40.080 --> 0:12:44.760 We're just enough fog of uncertainty about it and barreling forward. So, yes, 0:12:44.840 --> 0:12:48.960 the imperative to reduce carbon emissions is just as important 0:12:49.200 --> 0:12:51.680 as ever. But I will say I just talked to 0:12:51.720 --> 0:12:55.000 Senator Brian Schuttz about this. His point was just, yes, 0:12:55.080 --> 0:12:57.840 it's true climate is still a problem and still important. 0:12:58.080 --> 0:13:01.440 But if you have a message that says the stuff 0:13:01.480 --> 0:13:05.679 that's going to solve climate change is cheaper, right, you 0:13:05.720 --> 0:13:08.440 should use that message, you know what I mean? Like 0:13:08.520 --> 0:13:11.160 you should like exploit that message if you've got it, 0:13:11.200 --> 0:13:13.760 if it's true, and it is, then why not lean 0:13:13.800 --> 0:13:16.320 into that, right? So, I mean, the point is just 0:13:16.800 --> 0:13:20.800 that the need to decarbonize, like you could take climate 0:13:20.840 --> 0:13:24.280 out of that picture entirely, and the need to electrify, 0:13:24.559 --> 0:13:27.760 to clean, to do clean electrification would still be just 0:13:28.280 --> 0:13:31.680 as imperative as ever. You can justify it based on AI. 0:13:32.080 --> 0:13:35.680 You can justify it based on international economic competitiveness. You 0:13:35.720 --> 0:13:39.160 can justify it based on particulate air pollution. I mean, 0:13:39.200 --> 0:13:41.240 you don't even need to bring climate into it at all. 0:13:41.320 --> 0:13:47.560 The reasons for clean electrification are. It's overdetermined, as they say, right, there. 0:13:47.440 --> 0:13:50.800 Are so many reasons to go to solar. 0:13:51.160 --> 0:13:54.400 And when I'll add one other thing, Trump is busy 0:13:54.480 --> 0:13:57.120 giving a bunch of other countries additional reasons to do 0:13:57.160 --> 0:14:00.240 that by going to them, putting them over the barrel, 0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:03.560 twisting their arms, and forcing them to buy our liquid 0:14:03.679 --> 0:14:06.800 natural gas exports. Right, He's been doing this to countries. 0:14:06.800 --> 0:14:09.040 He's been saying, we won't give you any aid. We'll 0:14:09.040 --> 0:14:10.680 do this and that too. You will punish you with 0:14:10.720 --> 0:14:13.240 tariffs if you don't buy our liquid natural gas. 0:14:13.480 --> 0:14:15.240 Now, short term, that. 0:14:15.200 --> 0:14:17.280 Might get a little bit more of our LNG sold, 0:14:17.480 --> 0:14:19.720 But long term, what do you think those countries are 0:14:19.720 --> 0:14:23.320 taking from that? We do not want this to happen again. 0:14:23.440 --> 0:14:25.640 We do not want to be over the barrel like this. 0:14:26.080 --> 0:14:29.320 We need energy self sufficiency. We need to stop importing. 0:14:29.400 --> 0:14:31.440 He's just going to accelerate all this progress by being 0:14:31.640 --> 0:14:32.600 a dickhead like he is. 0:14:32.960 --> 0:14:35.840 Yeah, Like, is there any where you feel there's really 0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:41.600 exciting climate legislation going on, Climate science advance is going on. 0:14:41.960 --> 0:14:45.600 I haven't really tuned into the science a lot recently. 0:14:45.960 --> 0:14:48.240 I sort of like most of my professional work now 0:14:48.320 --> 0:14:51.880 is pivoted away from climate as such, to decarbonization, to 0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:54.400 the solutions, because like, what you need to know about 0:14:54.400 --> 0:14:57.400 climate we already know. Like if you're a scientist, I 0:14:57.440 --> 0:14:59.920 guess the details are interesting, but like we get it, 0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:02.760 you know, like get we get what we need to do, 0:15:02.880 --> 0:15:03.560 let's just do it. 0:15:03.640 --> 0:15:06.680 Doing it is to me the fun part, the interesting part. 0:15:07.000 --> 0:15:10.520 And do you feel optimistic about the decarbonization It sounds 0:15:10.560 --> 0:15:10.840 like you. 0:15:10.800 --> 0:15:13.200 Do on some timescale. 0:15:13.880 --> 0:15:16.720 I think all this stuff is inevitable for a lot 0:15:16.760 --> 0:15:20.440 of other reasons, but that timescale matters a lot. Those 0:15:20.600 --> 0:15:25.040 We're in a very crucial decade, so every day matters 0:15:25.080 --> 0:15:27.200 a lot, So no one, At no point do I 0:15:27.240 --> 0:15:31.480 feel sanguine about anything. But it is just the case 0:15:32.000 --> 0:15:35.640 that clean technology is better. It is just the case 0:15:35.960 --> 0:15:41.520 that lighting poisonous gases and fluids on fire to create 0:15:41.640 --> 0:15:45.880 controlled explosions is an insane way to do things. 0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:47.320 If you don't have to. 0:15:47.280 --> 0:15:50.000 Do it that way, if there's you know, there's if 0:15:50.000 --> 0:15:50.960 there's a different way to do it. 0:15:50.960 --> 0:15:52.080 You're gonna do it a different way. 0:15:52.080 --> 0:15:55.600 And that is just happening, no matter what anybody says 0:15:55.640 --> 0:15:58.840 about anything in politics, it's just happening. Like those farmers 0:15:58.840 --> 0:16:02.560 in Pakistan are not asking anyone's permission. The government of 0:16:02.560 --> 0:16:05.160 Pakistan had nothing to do with that. It's just farmers 0:16:05.160 --> 0:16:07.760 in Pakistan buying solar panels because they can get a 0:16:07.800 --> 0:16:10.280 little bit of energy and self sufficiency. Nobody has to 0:16:10.280 --> 0:16:12.200 tell them to do it. They don't care about climate change. 0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:15.240 It's all just cheaper power. You know, that's gonna like 0:16:15.280 --> 0:16:16.640 it's inexorable. 0:16:16.640 --> 0:16:20.280 So interesting, also terrifying. 0:16:20.920 --> 0:16:24.320 It's terrifying to be in this decade ruled by these 0:16:24.440 --> 0:16:27.840 people is just very not ideal Moni. 0:16:27.880 --> 0:16:28.560 It's not great. 0:16:28.640 --> 0:16:33.560 And like seeing Ira, seeing the policy program that Democrats 0:16:33.640 --> 0:16:36.920 put in place playing out for four more years would 0:16:36.920 --> 0:16:40.400 have been so transformative. It just like for a lot 0:16:40.440 --> 0:16:43.520 of reasons, it had barely gotten underway. It was like 0:16:43.600 --> 0:16:47.440 barely visible yet it was just starting, so it's easy 0:16:47.480 --> 0:16:49.600 to kind of cut it off without anybody caring much. 0:16:49.640 --> 0:16:52.640 But like four more years we would have made so 0:16:53.640 --> 0:16:56.840 much progress. It is tragic, you know, like you can't 0:16:56.880 --> 0:16:58.760 dwell on it forever, but it is tragic. 0:16:59.280 --> 0:17:02.440 Hw oh David, thank you for coming on. 0:17:07.920 --> 0:17:11.240 We have exciting news over at our YouTube channel. The 0:17:11.359 --> 0:17:14.560 second episode from our Project twenty twenty. 0:17:14.440 --> 0:17:16.199 Nine series is out now. 0:17:16.400 --> 0:17:19.520 It's a reimagining where we examine what went wrong with 0:17:19.600 --> 0:17:22.720 democrats approach to politics and how we can correct it 0:17:22.760 --> 0:17:26.480 and deliver changes to help people's lives. The first episode 0:17:26.600 --> 0:17:31.080 dove into the very sexy topic of campaign finance reform, 0:17:31.280 --> 0:17:34.840 and our second episode deals with an even sexier topic, 0:17:35.040 --> 0:17:41.160 antitrust and regulation. We look at how antitrust and regulation 0:17:41.359 --> 0:17:46.600 can protect American citizens and make America thrive in an 0:17:46.640 --> 0:17:51.520 era of rampant corruption and predatory crony capitalism. We talk 0:17:51.880 --> 0:17:55.080 to the smartest names in the field like Lena Kahn, 0:17:55.400 --> 0:18:01.879 Elvero Bedoya, Elizabeth Wilkins, and Doha Mech. Republicans were prepared 0:18:01.960 --> 0:18:04.800 for when they got the levers of power. We need 0:18:04.840 --> 0:18:08.280 Democrats to be too. So please head over to YouTube 0:18:08.440 --> 0:18:11.960 and search Molly John Fast Project twenty twenty nine or 0:18:12.119 --> 0:18:16.960 go to the Fast Politics YouTube channel and find it there. 0:18:17.000 --> 0:18:18.520 And help us spread the word. 0:18:20.400 --> 0:18:23.440 Jay Walter Sterling is a president of Saint John's College. 0:18:23.640 --> 0:18:25.800 Welcome to Fast Politics. 0:18:25.880 --> 0:18:28.360 Walter. Thanks so much, Molly. It's great to be here 0:18:28.400 --> 0:18:28.600 with you. 0:18:28.960 --> 0:18:33.400 We're going to talk about the remarkable college you are 0:18:33.440 --> 0:18:37.360 the president of, and it is a college called Saint 0:18:37.440 --> 0:18:40.399 John's College. I would love you to explain to us 0:18:40.680 --> 0:18:42.800 what Saint John's College. 0:18:42.560 --> 0:18:43.480 Is happy to do. 0:18:43.640 --> 0:18:46.280 So I'm here on the Santa Fe campus of Saint 0:18:46.320 --> 0:18:49.320 John's College, where I'm the president. We have our sister 0:18:49.400 --> 0:18:53.040 campus in Annapolis, Maryland, and we are often known. 0:18:52.880 --> 0:18:54.840 As the Great Books College. 0:18:54.920 --> 0:18:58.239 Our Annapolis campus is over three hundred years old. Our 0:18:58.280 --> 0:19:01.080 Santa Fe campus is sixty years old. But really we 0:19:01.280 --> 0:19:05.119 date our identity from the introduction of a program in 0:19:05.160 --> 0:19:07.560 the nineteen thirties that was intended to be a kind 0:19:07.560 --> 0:19:11.840 of great renewal of liberal education, of the ideal of 0:19:11.880 --> 0:19:16.560 an undergraduate education being broad and deep and anchored in 0:19:16.880 --> 0:19:19.840 you could say, the classics, the great books, from classical 0:19:19.840 --> 0:19:22.000 antiquity to the present. People who know a little bit 0:19:22.000 --> 0:19:25.479 about us probably think of our students correctly as reading 0:19:25.640 --> 0:19:29.080 Homer and Plato and Aristotle and Shakespeare and Chaucer, and 0:19:29.080 --> 0:19:32.960 that that list winds up sometime in the twentieth century. 0:19:33.000 --> 0:19:35.359 And that's right as far as it goes. But our 0:19:35.400 --> 0:19:38.880 students also do a great deal of math and natural science. 0:19:39.000 --> 0:19:44.320 They all study music. It's an extraordinary multidisciplinary program, but 0:19:44.480 --> 0:19:50.000 without traditional electives majors departments. Our faculty teach throughout the 0:19:50.000 --> 0:19:53.840 interdisciplinary program. They're called tutors, and this goes very deep 0:19:53.880 --> 0:19:56.240 for us. They sit at the table with the students, 0:19:56.280 --> 0:19:59.159 they don't lecture from elector, and all classes are small, 0:19:59.359 --> 0:20:02.399 student driven, and every student will learn ancient Greek up 0:20:02.440 --> 0:20:06.399 to a point and translate a tragedy of Sophocles or 0:20:06.400 --> 0:20:09.760 something comparable to that. And every student will work through 0:20:09.800 --> 0:20:13.800 Einstein's nineteen oh five paper on special relativity equation by equation. 0:20:14.160 --> 0:20:17.480 It's an extraordinarily to borrow a phrase from Milton. A 0:20:17.600 --> 0:20:21.199 complete and generous education and one that I believe is 0:20:21.240 --> 0:20:23.040 needed now more than ever. And I'm sure we'll get 0:20:23.080 --> 0:20:23.399 into that. 0:20:23.760 --> 0:20:26.320 My father in law went to Saint John's and was 0:20:26.640 --> 0:20:29.879 a person who became very successful and believes that the 0:20:30.119 --> 0:20:33.439 education changed his brain. And I have a child who 0:20:33.520 --> 0:20:36.640 goes to Saint John's now so and is almost done 0:20:36.640 --> 0:20:38.600 with his four years there. So I wonder if you 0:20:38.600 --> 0:20:43.160 could talk about what it was that got these schools 0:20:43.160 --> 0:20:44.680 started in the nineteen thirties. 0:20:44.960 --> 0:20:48.000 I think that it was a reaction to several things. 0:20:48.320 --> 0:20:50.760 I'll frame it as a reaction to three things that 0:20:50.840 --> 0:20:53.439 to me feel very relevant today. So one was a 0:20:53.520 --> 0:20:59.119 view that undergraduate education was being overdetermined by the model 0:20:59.160 --> 0:21:04.000 of the research universities, So the idea that universities were 0:21:04.000 --> 0:21:07.520