Speaker 1: Before we get started, please rate and review our show
Speaker 1: that helps people find us on this episode of Sports
Speaker 1: Illustrated Weekly. As a resident of Los Angeles, there's no
Speaker 1: shortage of sports in the area. Lakers and Clippers, Dodgers
Speaker 1: and Angels, Rams and Chargers. They're all within driving distance.
Speaker 1: But I never imagined I'd be able to hop in
Speaker 1: my car and go through the University of Michigan play
Speaker 1: or Wisconsin or Penn State. But that's what will happen
Speaker 1: soon enough, thanks to USC and u c l A
Speaker 1: leaving the Pack twelve for the Big Ten, a seismic
Speaker 1: shake up in college sports that has everyone talking. S
Speaker 1: I Senior writer Pat Forty joins me to discuss the
Speaker 1: shifting landscape, the ripple effects, and whether these kinds of
Speaker 1: superpower conferences are good for the schools, the athletes and
Speaker 1: us the fans. I'm your host, John Gonzalez from Sports
Speaker 1: Illustrated and I Heart Radio. This is Sports Illustrated Weekly.
Speaker 1: Pat Forty, Welcome back to Sports Illustrated Weekly. Hey, good
Speaker 1: to be with you, John Love when you're on a
Speaker 1: lot of questions for you. As you know, I live
Speaker 1: in Los Angeles, which is in California. I did great
Speaker 1: in geography at school. But I checked on it, and
Speaker 1: last I checked before this. Most of the Big Ten
Speaker 1: is very far from California. And yet the Big Ten
Speaker 1: made big news and announcing that it would add to
Speaker 1: l A legacy programs in U C, l A, and
Speaker 1: USC to the conference. And we're following major breaking news
Speaker 1: out of college athletics. Big Ten is expanding all the
Speaker 1: way out west. The addition of the Trojans and the
Speaker 1: Bruins make it sixteen teams in total. Hot. I was floord,
Speaker 1: let's just start here. What was your reaction to this?
Speaker 1: Completely floored? This soul broke a June and well, quite honestly,
Speaker 1: I was sitting in a Raman restaurant eating with my
Speaker 1: son and it was one of those frozen with the
Speaker 1: chopsticks of noodles in front of my face, like what.
Speaker 1: I looked at my phone and somebody said that to me.
Speaker 1: I was like, there's no way, there is no way
Speaker 1: that just happened. And you know, we've kind of been
Speaker 1: spinning through disbelief to you know, the whole all those
Speaker 1: stages of grief, anger, acceptance, you know, guilt, whatever the
Speaker 1: case may be. Uh, it's been a wild a few
Speaker 1: weeks early a month trying to process this whole thing.
Speaker 1: So I was floored. You were surprised as well. I
Speaker 1: guess this is sort of a process question, but it
Speaker 1: seems like a lot of this was orchestrated in secrecy.
Speaker 1: There were reports that on June thirty, at USC and
Speaker 1: U c l A submitted formal applications to join the
Speaker 1: Big Ten, and those applications were approved immediately the same day.
Speaker 1: And then The Athletic reported that only about ten people
Speaker 1: at USC, at the entire school were privy to the
Speaker 1: discussions before it was announced. So what does it say
Speaker 1: about this process that all of it was done behind
Speaker 1: closed doors? Yeah, I mean that's the world we live
Speaker 1: in college athletics and questions. Is this really where we
Speaker 1: want to live? A world of skullduggery, uh plan destined behavior,
Speaker 1: you know, admit to nothing, deceive, you know, keep your
Speaker 1: a lot of important people on your campus in the dark,
Speaker 1: keep your colleagues at the other schools in your conference
Speaker 1: in the dark. College sports has has long been addicted to,
Speaker 1: I think a silly level of secrecy in terms of
Speaker 1: like coaching searches and stuff like that. But this is
Speaker 1: taking into a whole other level, because these are half
Speaker 1: a billion dollar decisions over a course of you know,
Speaker 1: ten years, twenty years, whatever the case may be. These
Speaker 1: are massive, massive decisions that you would think would need
Speaker 1: to be run through a lot of channels to go
Speaker 1: ahead with. But but we have reached a point where
Speaker 1: nobody feels like they need to lay cards on the
Speaker 1: table and just be honest with their constituency, with their colleagues,
Speaker 1: with their competitors. Before we go more into how this unfolded,
Speaker 1: just from like a pure I guess we could look
Speaker 1: at the big sports like football and basketball, but from
Speaker 1: a collection of talent here do we like this for
Speaker 1: the Big Ten? Well, I I guess you look at
Speaker 1: it two ways one one way, Yeah, for the Big Ten.
Speaker 1: This is their answer in a very strong answer to
Speaker 1: Texas and Oklahoma going to the SEC. And so it
Speaker 1: is for the reasons that they did this for revenue
Speaker 1: and marketability. It's it's a huge game to get the
Speaker 1: Los Angeles market to become the first coast to coast
Speaker 1: league to bring in one of the most storied football
Speaker 1: programs in history in USC and one of the most
Speaker 1: storied men's basketball programs in history in u c l A.
Speaker 1: You know, two programs that are phenomenal in Olympic sports,
Speaker 1: to schools that are outstanding academically. It checks every box
Speaker 1: for what you would like in your conference, and it
Speaker 1: will check a big revenue box with Fox Sports and
Speaker 1: other TV partners. If you're USC in U c l A,
Speaker 1: you're looking at this and saying, well, we've made a
Speaker 1: lot of money. I don't know whether it helps them
Speaker 1: beyond that. I think it makes it harder for them
Speaker 1: to compete. I think it creates incredible travel hardships and
Speaker 1: logistical hardships for their athletes. It's I think it's a
Speaker 1: bummer for their fans, who you may like some of
Speaker 1: the freshness of it, but instead of being able to say, hey,
Speaker 1: let's go up the coast to the Bay Area to
Speaker 1: see our team play this weekend, you're like, well, can
Speaker 1: we afford to fly to State College Pennsylvania to see
Speaker 1: our team play this weekend? I mean, you know, maybe
Speaker 1: a trip to Nebraska? Right? I mean yeah, right? And
Speaker 1: you know who doesn't want to go to Lincoln in November.
Speaker 1: A lot to impact there. You hit on a lot
Speaker 1: of really good points. I think the most important one
Speaker 1: is that it's money, right, it's money for the Big ten,
Speaker 1: it's money for USC and U C l A. But
Speaker 1: you also mentioned, and you wrote about this as well,
Speaker 1: that this was sort of a response for the Big
Speaker 1: ten to what the SEC did in adding Oklahoma and Texas. Basically,
Speaker 1: this is an arms race, right, absolutely, that's exactly what
Speaker 1: it is. It's a TV arms race, and it's a
Speaker 1: two conference arms race. Is the two biggest getting bigger, too, strongest,
Speaker 1: getting stronger. It's Fox against the ESPN, Fox A line
Speaker 1: with the Big ten, ESPN line with the SEC, and
Speaker 1: everybody else is just being further pushed to the side
Speaker 1: as these two megapowers accelerate their kind of a competition
Speaker 1: with each other. When you talk about everybody else being
Speaker 1: pushed aside, is this the end for the because we
Speaker 1: talk about the Power five conferences, but really it's the
Speaker 1: Power too and everybody else now, right, yeah, it is absolutely,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, that doesn't mean Clemson can't be
Speaker 1: really good. And when national tizing the Tigers reclaimed their
Speaker 1: crown by crushing Alabama, doesn't mean a team from the
Speaker 1: Big twelve, Baylor and Oklahoma State can't be good. It
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that an Oregon cannot compete for a national title.
Speaker 1: But it's harder now, it is more difficult. You are
Speaker 1: further behind in revenue, and you know what, what is
Speaker 1: revenue being used for? Now? Most everybody's built every facility
Speaker 1: you could possibly need. So the next thing is name,
Speaker 1: image and likeness money, And now you've got more of
Speaker 1: that you can give the players, which I am not
Speaker 1: opposed to players getting the money, but this has become
Speaker 1: purely a transactional situation here. So it's that it's how
Speaker 1: big can our staff be, how much can we pay
Speaker 1: our coaches? And you just try to money whip your competition,
Speaker 1: and it's just harder and harder for everybody outside the
Speaker 1: power to to compete with those two conferences. We've had
Speaker 1: you on this program to talk about n I L before,
Speaker 1: and that's a really interesting component of it that I
Speaker 1: hadn't previously considered because I think like a few years
Speaker 1: ago USC in U c l A, the actual quality
Speaker 1: of their programs had lost a little bit of the
Speaker 1: luster and diminished a little bit. How does n I
Speaker 1: L factor in for these two schools? Do you expect
Speaker 1: them to become dominant forces again because of it? And
Speaker 1: also because they're joining the Big Ten. Well, I mean
Speaker 1: it gives them kind of a renewed uh injection. I
Speaker 1: think of competitiveness in those areas. Now, USC had kind
Speaker 1: of already gotten there in the last offseason, right, USC
Speaker 1: has found its new football coach Oklahoma suitors Lincoln Riley, Traits,
Speaker 1: Crimson and Cream for Cardinal and Gold. They hired Lincoln Riley,
Speaker 1: and it was it was basically, Okay, we're gonna go
Speaker 1: take this home run swing, spend ninety million dollars higher
Speaker 1: this coach, but then we're gonna have to do everything
Speaker 1: that he says we need to do to compete, which
Speaker 1: is going to be major n I L commitments there,
Speaker 1: you know, and as you started seeing them landing big
Speaker 1: time recruits and hey, there's a lot to like about
Speaker 1: USC in Los Angeles. But it wasn't just for the beaches.
Speaker 1: It's because there's gonna have to have some opportunities to
Speaker 1: earn a lot of money. And I think being in
Speaker 1: Los Angeles having huge alumni basis with a lot of
Speaker 1: wealthy donors. I'm not sure how many all of them
Speaker 1: care about football, but nothing of them probably do that
Speaker 1: you can go to them and say, hey, we need
Speaker 1: fifteen million a year ten million a year for N
Speaker 1: I L purposes? Are you enter, you out? And so
Speaker 1: I think that's kind of the next step. And I
Speaker 1: think with those Los Angeles based schools that they'll have
Speaker 1: a chance to to mind that particular area. All right. So,
Speaker 1: as we mentioned, good for the schools in terms of money,
Speaker 1: probably good for the student athletes in terms of money.
Speaker 1: But in order for them to leave, they had to
Speaker 1: leave something. Where does this leave the Pack twelve and
Speaker 1: also the Big Twelve when we're talking about the SEC
Speaker 1: defections of Oklahoma in Texas. Absolutely both conferences gutted of
Speaker 1: their lynch pins. You know that the two most important
Speaker 1: properties in each conference both gone. They're both hurting, no
Speaker 1: doubt about it. And that's why there has been a
Speaker 1: lot of talk John in the last couple of weeks
Speaker 1: about put these two conferences one of their so weak
Speaker 1: and would one poach the other. There's no such thing
Speaker 1: as working together anymore in college sports, so it's more
Speaker 1: like who's turning on whom? Uh? And I think the
Speaker 1: Big Twelve has made it pretty clear they would take
Speaker 1: some teams from the PAC twelve. The Pac twelve was
Speaker 1: mad about that but really, I mean, we're still waiting
Speaker 1: actually to see if like Oregon and Washington could go
Speaker 1: to the Big Ten. I don't think that's imminent by
Speaker 1: any stretch, but just the the very stability of the
Speaker 1: PAC twelve and the Big twelve is so frail at
Speaker 1: this point and so fraught, and they're not in it
Speaker 1: to help each other. They are in it to compete
Speaker 1: against each other for you know what whatever. Uh, you know,
Speaker 1: it's next in the totem pole after the top two conferences,
Speaker 1: it's those two in the A C C. I'll just
Speaker 1: kind of scrapping it out. Yeah, it's it's really interesting
Speaker 1: to see how these dominoes are gonna fall and whether
Speaker 1: or not more teams will get poached. But for their
Speaker 1: to be teams poached, somebody has to do the poaching.
Speaker 1: I'm wondering about Big Ten commissioner Kevin Warren, where he
Speaker 1: falls in all of this, and how he's being perceived.
Speaker 1: It's obviously a boon for the conference, but I would
Speaker 1: imagine other commissioners around the league probably not that happy
Speaker 1: with him. Oh, I mean, like George Clicoff, I am sure,
Speaker 1: is very bitter towards Kevin Warren. George Clicoff, the commissioner
Speaker 1: of the PAC twelve for the last year and last
Speaker 1: summer they had the quote unquote alliance between the PAC twelve,
Speaker 1: the Big Ten, and the a c C to basically
Speaker 1: kind of ward off SEC aggression more than anything. But
Speaker 1: part of that was, hey, we're in this together. And
Speaker 1: then you know, eleven months later, Kevin Warren just shanks
Speaker 1: George Clay Coffin takes us to best schools. So yeah,
Speaker 1: there's some real bitterness there. But Kevin Warren's boy, what
Speaker 1: a evolution he's had in if you remember the Big Ten.
Speaker 1: At first, wasn't going to play football and people were
Speaker 1: vilifying him viciously. I mean to the point of death threats,
Speaker 1: and not just a couple, but like hundreds of death threats.
Speaker 1: People wanted him out as commissional. People thought he was weak,
Speaker 1: out of touch, couldn't do it. And then last year
Speaker 1: it looks like, okay, they're falling further behind the SEC,
Speaker 1: which makes the Big Power move. Well, now he answers
Speaker 1: with this move, and I think he's he's got a
Speaker 1: new lease on life. I saw him at Big Ten
Speaker 1: media days, and he has a a swagger and a
Speaker 1: confidence about him that was non existing a couple of
Speaker 1: years ago. Some really stark winners and losers and all
Speaker 1: of this. Last one for you, Pad, I want to
Speaker 1: ask you about us. Take off your journalism hat. Just
Speaker 1: as a consumer of college sports? Are we winners or
Speaker 1: losers in this? Do we like this? Just from a
Speaker 1: consumption standpoint? I don't think so. I don't like it,
Speaker 1: you know, to each their own, probably, But my feeling
Speaker 1: is college football is at its best when it is
Speaker 1: a national sport with different unique regional flavors that all
Speaker 1: kind of stitched together, and the Pack twelve, which have
Speaker 1: been around since the nineteen twenties. Schools were most of
Speaker 1: the schools in the league. We're in there from the
Speaker 1: vet from that time on for a century. You lose
Speaker 1: something when there's not a West Coast champion, so to speak,
Speaker 1: out there, you know, when when those schools are being
Speaker 1: farmed out to go compete with schools they really don't
Speaker 1: have much in common with. Uh, you lose something there,
Speaker 1: and you lose something when the Southwest no longer as
Speaker 1: you know, revolves around Texas and Oklahoma. It's just like, well,
Speaker 1: they're just in there with Georgia and Alabama. You know
Speaker 1: we've already gone, We've crossed the rubagne to agree. Already
Speaker 1: we have West Virginia playing in the same conference with
Speaker 1: Texas Tech. Alright, it's already ridiculous. But now you know,
Speaker 1: we're not talking about us for June. We're talking about
Speaker 1: USC We're talking about Texas, And I think you are
Speaker 1: losing something that's really part of the the appeal of
Speaker 1: college football. Yeah. I love the West Coast rivalries. I'm
Speaker 1: less confident that I'm gonna get jazzed up for like
Speaker 1: u C l A Iowa, but I guess we will
Speaker 1: find out. Read his stories about college football and the
Speaker 1: Power Conference realignment on si dot com. He's the best
Speaker 1: in the biz. We'd make a commissioner over all of
Speaker 1: it if we could. Pat forty, thank you for this.
Speaker 1: Thank you, John, my pleasure, Thanks for listening, and a
Speaker 1: reminder to please rate and review the show that helps
Speaker 1: people find us. Sports Illustrated Weekly is a production of
Speaker 1: Sports Illustrated and I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from
Speaker 1: My Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your favorite shows. And for more
Speaker 1: of Sports Illustrated It's best stories and podcasts, visit SI
Speaker 1: dot com. This episode of Sports Illustrated Weekly was produced
Speaker 1: by Jordan Rizzieri, Jessica your Mooski, and Isaac Lee, who
Speaker 1: was also our sound engineer. Our senior producers are Dan
Speaker 1: Bloom and Harry sward Out. Our executive producers are Scott
Speaker 1: Brody and me John Gonzalez. Our theme song is by
Speaker 1: Nolan Schneider.