WEBVTT - Is the Big 10 Getting Too Big?

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<v Speaker 1>Before we get started, please rate and review our show

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<v Speaker 1>that helps people find us on this episode of Sports

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<v Speaker 1>Illustrated Weekly. As a resident of Los Angeles, there's no

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<v Speaker 1>shortage of sports in the area. Lakers and Clippers, Dodgers

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<v Speaker 1>and Angels, Rams and Chargers. They're all within driving distance.

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<v Speaker 1>But I never imagined I'd be able to hop in

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<v Speaker 1>my car and go through the University of Michigan play

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<v Speaker 1>or Wisconsin or Penn State. But that's what will happen

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<v Speaker 1>soon enough, thanks to USC and u c l A

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<v Speaker 1>leaving the Pack twelve for the Big Ten, a seismic

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<v Speaker 1>shake up in college sports that has everyone talking. S

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<v Speaker 1>I Senior writer Pat Forty joins me to discuss the

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<v Speaker 1>shifting landscape, the ripple effects, and whether these kinds of

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<v Speaker 1>superpower conferences are good for the schools, the athletes and

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<v Speaker 1>us the fans. I'm your host, John Gonzalez from Sports

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<v Speaker 1>Illustrated and I Heart Radio. This is Sports Illustrated Weekly.

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<v Speaker 1>Pat Forty, Welcome back to Sports Illustrated Weekly. Hey, good

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<v Speaker 1>to be with you, John Love when you're on a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of questions for you. As you know, I live

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<v Speaker 1>in Los Angeles, which is in California. I did great

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<v Speaker 1>in geography at school. But I checked on it, and

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<v Speaker 1>last I checked before this. Most of the Big Ten

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<v Speaker 1>is very far from California. And yet the Big Ten

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<v Speaker 1>made big news and announcing that it would add to

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<v Speaker 1>l A legacy programs in U C, l A, and

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<v Speaker 1>USC to the conference. And we're following major breaking news

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<v Speaker 1>out of college athletics. Big Ten is expanding all the

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<v Speaker 1>way out west. The addition of the Trojans and the

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<v Speaker 1>Bruins make it sixteen teams in total. Hot. I was floord,

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<v Speaker 1>let's just start here. What was your reaction to this?

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<v Speaker 1>Completely floored? This soul broke a June and well, quite honestly,

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<v Speaker 1>I was sitting in a Raman restaurant eating with my

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<v Speaker 1>son and it was one of those frozen with the

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<v Speaker 1>chopsticks of noodles in front of my face, like what.

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<v Speaker 1>I looked at my phone and somebody said that to me.

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<v Speaker 1>I was like, there's no way, there is no way

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<v Speaker 1>that just happened. And you know, we've kind of been

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<v Speaker 1>spinning through disbelief to you know, the whole all those

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<v Speaker 1>stages of grief, anger, acceptance, you know, guilt, whatever the

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<v Speaker 1>case may be. Uh, it's been a wild a few

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<v Speaker 1>weeks early a month trying to process this whole thing.

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<v Speaker 1>So I was floored. You were surprised as well. I

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<v Speaker 1>guess this is sort of a process question, but it

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<v Speaker 1>seems like a lot of this was orchestrated in secrecy.

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<v Speaker 1>There were reports that on June thirty, at USC and

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<v Speaker 1>U c l A submitted formal applications to join the

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<v Speaker 1>Big Ten, and those applications were approved immediately the same day.

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<v Speaker 1>And then The Athletic reported that only about ten people

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<v Speaker 1>at USC, at the entire school were privy to the

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<v Speaker 1>discussions before it was announced. So what does it say

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<v Speaker 1>about this process that all of it was done behind

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<v Speaker 1>closed doors? Yeah, I mean that's the world we live

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<v Speaker 1>in college athletics and questions. Is this really where we

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<v Speaker 1>want to live? A world of skullduggery, uh plan destined behavior,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, admit to nothing, deceive, you know, keep your

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of important people on your campus in the dark,

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<v Speaker 1>keep your colleagues at the other schools in your conference

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<v Speaker 1>in the dark. College sports has has long been addicted to,

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<v Speaker 1>I think a silly level of secrecy in terms of

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<v Speaker 1>like coaching searches and stuff like that. But this is

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<v Speaker 1>taking into a whole other level, because these are half

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<v Speaker 1>a billion dollar decisions over a course of you know,

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<v Speaker 1>ten years, twenty years, whatever the case may be. These

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<v Speaker 1>are massive, massive decisions that you would think would need

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<v Speaker 1>to be run through a lot of channels to go

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<v Speaker 1>ahead with. But but we have reached a point where

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<v Speaker 1>nobody feels like they need to lay cards on the

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<v Speaker 1>table and just be honest with their constituency, with their colleagues,

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<v Speaker 1>with their competitors. Before we go more into how this unfolded,

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<v Speaker 1>just from like a pure I guess we could look

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<v Speaker 1>at the big sports like football and basketball, but from

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<v Speaker 1>a collection of talent here do we like this for

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<v Speaker 1>the Big Ten? Well, I I guess you look at

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<v Speaker 1>it two ways one one way, Yeah, for the Big Ten.

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<v Speaker 1>This is their answer in a very strong answer to

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<v Speaker 1>Texas and Oklahoma going to the SEC. And so it

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<v Speaker 1>is for the reasons that they did this for revenue

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<v Speaker 1>and marketability. It's it's a huge game to get the

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<v Speaker 1>Los Angeles market to become the first coast to coast

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<v Speaker 1>league to bring in one of the most storied football

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<v Speaker 1>programs in history in USC and one of the most

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<v Speaker 1>storied men's basketball programs in history in u c l A.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, two programs that are phenomenal in Olympic sports,

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<v Speaker 1>to schools that are outstanding academically. It checks every box

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<v Speaker 1>for what you would like in your conference, and it

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<v Speaker 1>will check a big revenue box with Fox Sports and

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<v Speaker 1>other TV partners. If you're USC in U c l A,

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<v Speaker 1>you're looking at this and saying, well, we've made a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of money. I don't know whether it helps them

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<v Speaker 1>beyond that. I think it makes it harder for them

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<v Speaker 1>to compete. I think it creates incredible travel hardships and

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<v Speaker 1>logistical hardships for their athletes. It's I think it's a

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<v Speaker 1>bummer for their fans, who you may like some of

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<v Speaker 1>the freshness of it, but instead of being able to say, hey,

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<v Speaker 1>let's go up the coast to the Bay Area to

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<v Speaker 1>see our team play this weekend, you're like, well, can

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<v Speaker 1>we afford to fly to State College Pennsylvania to see

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<v Speaker 1>our team play this weekend? I mean, you know, maybe

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<v Speaker 1>a trip to Nebraska? Right? I mean yeah, right? And

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<v Speaker 1>you know who doesn't want to go to Lincoln in November.

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<v Speaker 1>A lot to impact there. You hit on a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of really good points. I think the most important one

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<v Speaker 1>is that it's money, right, it's money for the Big ten,

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<v Speaker 1>it's money for USC and U C l A. But

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<v Speaker 1>you also mentioned, and you wrote about this as well,

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<v Speaker 1>that this was sort of a response for the Big

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<v Speaker 1>ten to what the SEC did in adding Oklahoma and Texas. Basically,

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<v Speaker 1>this is an arms race, right, absolutely, that's exactly what

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<v Speaker 1>it is. It's a TV arms race, and it's a

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<v Speaker 1>two conference arms race. Is the two biggest getting bigger, too, strongest,

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<v Speaker 1>getting stronger. It's Fox against the ESPN, Fox A line

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<v Speaker 1>with the Big ten, ESPN line with the SEC, and

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<v Speaker 1>everybody else is just being further pushed to the side

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<v Speaker 1>as these two megapowers accelerate their kind of a competition

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<v Speaker 1>with each other. When you talk about everybody else being

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<v Speaker 1>pushed aside, is this the end for the because we

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<v Speaker 1>talk about the Power five conferences, but really it's the

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<v Speaker 1>Power too and everybody else now, right, yeah, it is absolutely,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, I mean, that doesn't mean Clemson can't be

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<v Speaker 1>really good. And when national tizing the Tigers reclaimed their

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<v Speaker 1>crown by crushing Alabama, doesn't mean a team from the

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<v Speaker 1>Big twelve, Baylor and Oklahoma State can't be good. It

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't mean that an Oregon cannot compete for a national title.

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<v Speaker 1>But it's harder now, it is more difficult. You are

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<v Speaker 1>further behind in revenue, and you know what, what is

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<v Speaker 1>revenue being used for? Now? Most everybody's built every facility

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<v Speaker 1>you could possibly need. So the next thing is name,

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<v Speaker 1>image and likeness money, And now you've got more of

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<v Speaker 1>that you can give the players, which I am not

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<v Speaker 1>opposed to players getting the money, but this has become

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<v Speaker 1>purely a transactional situation here. So it's that it's how

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<v Speaker 1>big can our staff be, how much can we pay

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<v Speaker 1>our coaches? And you just try to money whip your competition,

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<v Speaker 1>and it's just harder and harder for everybody outside the

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<v Speaker 1>power to to compete with those two conferences. We've had

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<v Speaker 1>you on this program to talk about n I L before,

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<v Speaker 1>and that's a really interesting component of it that I

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<v Speaker 1>hadn't previously considered because I think like a few years

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<v Speaker 1>ago USC in U c l A, the actual quality

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<v Speaker 1>of their programs had lost a little bit of the

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<v Speaker 1>luster and diminished a little bit. How does n I

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<v Speaker 1>L factor in for these two schools? Do you expect

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<v Speaker 1>them to become dominant forces again because of it? And

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<v Speaker 1>also because they're joining the Big Ten. Well, I mean

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<v Speaker 1>it gives them kind of a renewed uh injection. I

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<v Speaker 1>think of competitiveness in those areas. Now, USC had kind

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<v Speaker 1>of already gotten there in the last offseason, right, USC

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<v Speaker 1>has found its new football coach Oklahoma suitors Lincoln Riley, Traits,

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<v Speaker 1>Crimson and Cream for Cardinal and Gold. They hired Lincoln Riley,

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<v Speaker 1>and it was it was basically, Okay, we're gonna go

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<v Speaker 1>take this home run swing, spend ninety million dollars higher

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<v Speaker 1>this coach, but then we're gonna have to do everything

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<v Speaker 1>that he says we need to do to compete, which

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<v Speaker 1>is going to be major n I L commitments there,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, and as you started seeing them landing big

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<v Speaker 1>time recruits and hey, there's a lot to like about

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<v Speaker 1>USC in Los Angeles. But it wasn't just for the beaches.

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<v Speaker 1>It's because there's gonna have to have some opportunities to

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<v Speaker 1>earn a lot of money. And I think being in

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<v Speaker 1>Los Angeles having huge alumni basis with a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>wealthy donors. I'm not sure how many all of them

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<v Speaker 1>care about football, but nothing of them probably do that

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<v Speaker 1>you can go to them and say, hey, we need

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<v Speaker 1>fifteen million a year ten million a year for N

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<v Speaker 1>I L purposes? Are you enter, you out? And so

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<v Speaker 1>I think that's kind of the next step. And I

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<v Speaker 1>think with those Los Angeles based schools that they'll have

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<v Speaker 1>a chance to to mind that particular area. All right. So,

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<v Speaker 1>as we mentioned, good for the schools in terms of money,

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<v Speaker 1>probably good for the student athletes in terms of money.

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<v Speaker 1>But in order for them to leave, they had to

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<v Speaker 1>leave something. Where does this leave the Pack twelve and

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<v Speaker 1>also the Big Twelve when we're talking about the SEC

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<v Speaker 1>defections of Oklahoma in Texas. Absolutely both conferences gutted of

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<v Speaker 1>their lynch pins. You know that the two most important

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<v Speaker 1>properties in each conference both gone. They're both hurting, no

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<v Speaker 1>doubt about it. And that's why there has been a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of talk John in the last couple of weeks

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<v Speaker 1>about put these two conferences one of their so weak

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<v Speaker 1>and would one poach the other. There's no such thing

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<v Speaker 1>as working together anymore in college sports, so it's more

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<v Speaker 1>like who's turning on whom? Uh? And I think the

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<v Speaker 1>Big Twelve has made it pretty clear they would take

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<v Speaker 1>some teams from the PAC twelve. The Pac twelve was

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<v Speaker 1>mad about that but really, I mean, we're still waiting

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<v Speaker 1>actually to see if like Oregon and Washington could go

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<v Speaker 1>to the Big Ten. I don't think that's imminent by

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<v Speaker 1>any stretch, but just the the very stability of the

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<v Speaker 1>PAC twelve and the Big twelve is so frail at

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<v Speaker 1>this point and so fraught, and they're not in it

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<v Speaker 1>to help each other. They are in it to compete

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<v Speaker 1>against each other for you know what whatever. Uh, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>it's next in the totem pole after the top two conferences,

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<v Speaker 1>it's those two in the A C C. I'll just

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<v Speaker 1>kind of scrapping it out. Yeah, it's it's really interesting

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<v Speaker 1>to see how these dominoes are gonna fall and whether

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<v Speaker 1>or not more teams will get poached. But for their

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<v Speaker 1>to be teams poached, somebody has to do the poaching.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm wondering about Big Ten commissioner Kevin Warren, where he

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<v Speaker 1>falls in all of this, and how he's being perceived.

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<v Speaker 1>It's obviously a boon for the conference, but I would

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<v Speaker 1>imagine other commissioners around the league probably not that happy

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<v Speaker 1>with him. Oh, I mean, like George Clicoff, I am sure,

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<v Speaker 1>is very bitter towards Kevin Warren. George Clicoff, the commissioner

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<v Speaker 1>of the PAC twelve for the last year and last

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<v Speaker 1>summer they had the quote unquote alliance between the PAC twelve,

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<v Speaker 1>the Big Ten, and the a c C to basically

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<v Speaker 1>kind of ward off SEC aggression more than anything. But

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<v Speaker 1>part of that was, hey, we're in this together. And

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<v Speaker 1>then you know, eleven months later, Kevin Warren just shanks

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<v Speaker 1>George Clay Coffin takes us to best schools. So yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>there's some real bitterness there. But Kevin Warren's boy, what

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<v Speaker 1>a evolution he's had in if you remember the Big Ten.

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<v Speaker 1>At first, wasn't going to play football and people were

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<v Speaker 1>vilifying him viciously. I mean to the point of death threats,

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<v Speaker 1>and not just a couple, but like hundreds of death threats.

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<v Speaker 1>People wanted him out as commissional. People thought he was weak,

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<v Speaker 1>out of touch, couldn't do it. And then last year

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<v Speaker 1>it looks like, okay, they're falling further behind the SEC,

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<v Speaker 1>which makes the Big Power move. Well, now he answers

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<v Speaker 1>with this move, and I think he's he's got a

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<v Speaker 1>new lease on life. I saw him at Big Ten

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<v Speaker 1>media days, and he has a a swagger and a

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<v Speaker 1>confidence about him that was non existing a couple of

0:11:46.679 --> 0:11:49.920
<v Speaker 1>years ago. Some really stark winners and losers and all

0:11:49.920 --> 0:11:51.880
<v Speaker 1>of this. Last one for you, Pad, I want to

0:11:51.920 --> 0:11:54.800
<v Speaker 1>ask you about us. Take off your journalism hat. Just

0:11:54.880 --> 0:11:58.040
<v Speaker 1>as a consumer of college sports? Are we winners or

0:11:58.040 --> 0:12:00.880
<v Speaker 1>losers in this? Do we like this? Just from a

0:12:00.920 --> 0:12:04.120
<v Speaker 1>consumption standpoint? I don't think so. I don't like it,

0:12:04.240 --> 0:12:07.280
<v Speaker 1>you know, to each their own, probably, But my feeling

0:12:07.480 --> 0:12:10.160
<v Speaker 1>is college football is at its best when it is

0:12:10.200 --> 0:12:16.079
<v Speaker 1>a national sport with different unique regional flavors that all

0:12:16.160 --> 0:12:19.199
<v Speaker 1>kind of stitched together, and the Pack twelve, which have

0:12:19.280 --> 0:12:24.079
<v Speaker 1>been around since the nineteen twenties. Schools were most of

0:12:24.080 --> 0:12:25.480
<v Speaker 1>the schools in the league. We're in there from the

0:12:25.559 --> 0:12:28.400
<v Speaker 1>vet from that time on for a century. You lose

0:12:28.520 --> 0:12:33.319
<v Speaker 1>something when there's not a West Coast champion, so to speak,

0:12:33.360 --> 0:12:35.600
<v Speaker 1>out there, you know, when when those schools are being

0:12:35.679 --> 0:12:39.400
<v Speaker 1>farmed out to go compete with schools they really don't

0:12:39.400 --> 0:12:42.760
<v Speaker 1>have much in common with. Uh, you lose something there,

0:12:42.880 --> 0:12:45.280
<v Speaker 1>and you lose something when the Southwest no longer as

0:12:45.400 --> 0:12:47.840
<v Speaker 1>you know, revolves around Texas and Oklahoma. It's just like, well,

0:12:47.840 --> 0:12:50.560
<v Speaker 1>they're just in there with Georgia and Alabama. You know

0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:53.400
<v Speaker 1>we've already gone, We've crossed the rubagne to agree. Already

0:12:53.400 --> 0:12:55.480
<v Speaker 1>we have West Virginia playing in the same conference with

0:12:55.520 --> 0:12:58.880
<v Speaker 1>Texas Tech. Alright, it's already ridiculous. But now you know,

0:12:58.960 --> 0:13:00.920
<v Speaker 1>we're not talking about us for June. We're talking about

0:13:01.000 --> 0:13:03.800
<v Speaker 1>USC We're talking about Texas, And I think you are

0:13:04.160 --> 0:13:07.720
<v Speaker 1>losing something that's really part of the the appeal of

0:13:07.760 --> 0:13:12.600
<v Speaker 1>college football. Yeah. I love the West Coast rivalries. I'm

0:13:12.920 --> 0:13:14.800
<v Speaker 1>less confident that I'm gonna get jazzed up for like

0:13:14.920 --> 0:13:17.160
<v Speaker 1>u C l A Iowa, but I guess we will

0:13:17.200 --> 0:13:19.680
<v Speaker 1>find out. Read his stories about college football and the

0:13:19.679 --> 0:13:22.600
<v Speaker 1>Power Conference realignment on si dot com. He's the best

0:13:22.679 --> 0:13:24.640
<v Speaker 1>in the biz. We'd make a commissioner over all of

0:13:24.640 --> 0:13:26.959
<v Speaker 1>it if we could. Pat forty, thank you for this.

0:13:27.520 --> 0:13:34.200
<v Speaker 1>Thank you, John, my pleasure, Thanks for listening, and a

0:13:34.200 --> 0:13:36.720
<v Speaker 1>reminder to please rate and review the show that helps

0:13:36.720 --> 0:13:40.240
<v Speaker 1>people find us. Sports Illustrated Weekly is a production of

0:13:40.280 --> 0:13:43.760
<v Speaker 1>Sports Illustrated and I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from

0:13:43.760 --> 0:13:47.439
<v Speaker 1>My Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

0:13:47.640 --> 0:13:50.679
<v Speaker 1>or wherever you get your favorite shows. And for more

0:13:50.679 --> 0:13:53.960
<v Speaker 1>of Sports Illustrated It's best stories and podcasts, visit SI

0:13:54.080 --> 0:13:57.760
<v Speaker 1>dot com. This episode of Sports Illustrated Weekly was produced

0:13:57.760 --> 0:14:01.040
<v Speaker 1>by Jordan Rizzieri, Jessica your Mooski, and Isaac Lee, who

0:14:01.160 --> 0:14:04.920
<v Speaker 1>was also our sound engineer. Our senior producers are Dan

0:14:05.000 --> 0:14:08.760
<v Speaker 1>Bloom and Harry sward Out. Our executive producers are Scott

0:14:08.760 --> 0:14:12.520
<v Speaker 1>Brody and me John Gonzalez. Our theme song is by

0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:13.320
<v Speaker 1>Nolan Schneider.