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Speaker 1: Before we get started, please rate and review our show

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Speaker 1: that helps people find us on this episode of Sports

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Speaker 1: Illustrated Weekly. As a resident of Los Angeles, there's no

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Speaker 1: shortage of sports in the area. Lakers and Clippers, Dodgers

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Speaker 1: and Angels, Rams and Chargers. They're all within driving distance.

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Speaker 1: But I never imagined I'd be able to hop in

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Speaker 1: my car and go through the University of Michigan play

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Speaker 1: or Wisconsin or Penn State. But that's what will happen

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Speaker 1: soon enough, thanks to USC and u c l A

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Speaker 1: leaving the Pack twelve for the Big Ten, a seismic

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Speaker 1: shake up in college sports that has everyone talking. S

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Speaker 1: I Senior writer Pat Forty joins me to discuss the

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Speaker 1: shifting landscape, the ripple effects, and whether these kinds of

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Speaker 1: superpower conferences are good for the schools, the athletes and

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Speaker 1: us the fans. I'm your host, John Gonzalez from Sports

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Speaker 1: Illustrated and I Heart Radio. This is Sports Illustrated Weekly.

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Speaker 1: Pat Forty, Welcome back to Sports Illustrated Weekly. Hey, good

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Speaker 1: to be with you, John Love when you're on a

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Speaker 1: lot of questions for you. As you know, I live

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Speaker 1: in Los Angeles, which is in California. I did great

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Speaker 1: in geography at school. But I checked on it, and

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Speaker 1: last I checked before this. Most of the Big Ten

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Speaker 1: is very far from California. And yet the Big Ten

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Speaker 1: made big news and announcing that it would add to

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Speaker 1: l A legacy programs in U C, l A, and

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Speaker 1: USC to the conference. And we're following major breaking news

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Speaker 1: out of college athletics. Big Ten is expanding all the

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Speaker 1: way out west. The addition of the Trojans and the

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Speaker 1: Bruins make it sixteen teams in total. Hot. I was floord,

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Speaker 1: let's just start here. What was your reaction to this?

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Speaker 1: Completely floored? This soul broke a June and well, quite honestly,

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Speaker 1: I was sitting in a Raman restaurant eating with my

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Speaker 1: son and it was one of those frozen with the

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Speaker 1: chopsticks of noodles in front of my face, like what.

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Speaker 1: I looked at my phone and somebody said that to me.

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Speaker 1: I was like, there's no way, there is no way

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Speaker 1: that just happened. And you know, we've kind of been

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Speaker 1: spinning through disbelief to you know, the whole all those

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Speaker 1: stages of grief, anger, acceptance, you know, guilt, whatever the

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Speaker 1: case may be. Uh, it's been a wild a few

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Speaker 1: weeks early a month trying to process this whole thing.

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Speaker 1: So I was floored. You were surprised as well. I

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Speaker 1: guess this is sort of a process question, but it

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Speaker 1: seems like a lot of this was orchestrated in secrecy.

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Speaker 1: There were reports that on June thirty, at USC and

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Speaker 1: U c l A submitted formal applications to join the

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Speaker 1: Big Ten, and those applications were approved immediately the same day.

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Speaker 1: And then The Athletic reported that only about ten people

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Speaker 1: at USC, at the entire school were privy to the

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Speaker 1: discussions before it was announced. So what does it say

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Speaker 1: about this process that all of it was done behind

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Speaker 1: closed doors? Yeah, I mean that's the world we live

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Speaker 1: in college athletics and questions. Is this really where we

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Speaker 1: want to live? A world of skullduggery, uh plan destined behavior,

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Speaker 1: you know, admit to nothing, deceive, you know, keep your

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Speaker 1: a lot of important people on your campus in the dark,

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Speaker 1: keep your colleagues at the other schools in your conference

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Speaker 1: in the dark. College sports has has long been addicted to,

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Speaker 1: I think a silly level of secrecy in terms of

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Speaker 1: like coaching searches and stuff like that. But this is

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Speaker 1: taking into a whole other level, because these are half

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Speaker 1: a billion dollar decisions over a course of you know,

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Speaker 1: ten years, twenty years, whatever the case may be. These

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Speaker 1: are massive, massive decisions that you would think would need

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Speaker 1: to be run through a lot of channels to go

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Speaker 1: ahead with. But but we have reached a point where

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Speaker 1: nobody feels like they need to lay cards on the

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Speaker 1: table and just be honest with their constituency, with their colleagues,

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Speaker 1: with their competitors. Before we go more into how this unfolded,

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Speaker 1: just from like a pure I guess we could look

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Speaker 1: at the big sports like football and basketball, but from

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Speaker 1: a collection of talent here do we like this for

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Speaker 1: the Big Ten? Well, I I guess you look at

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Speaker 1: it two ways one one way, Yeah, for the Big Ten.

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Speaker 1: This is their answer in a very strong answer to

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Speaker 1: Texas and Oklahoma going to the SEC. And so it

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Speaker 1: is for the reasons that they did this for revenue

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Speaker 1: and marketability. It's it's a huge game to get the

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Speaker 1: Los Angeles market to become the first coast to coast

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Speaker 1: league to bring in one of the most storied football

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Speaker 1: programs in history in USC and one of the most

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Speaker 1: storied men's basketball programs in history in u c l A.

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Speaker 1: You know, two programs that are phenomenal in Olympic sports,

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Speaker 1: to schools that are outstanding academically. It checks every box

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Speaker 1: for what you would like in your conference, and it

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Speaker 1: will check a big revenue box with Fox Sports and

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Speaker 1: other TV partners. If you're USC in U c l A,

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Speaker 1: you're looking at this and saying, well, we've made a

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Speaker 1: lot of money. I don't know whether it helps them

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Speaker 1: beyond that. I think it makes it harder for them

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Speaker 1: to compete. I think it creates incredible travel hardships and

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Speaker 1: logistical hardships for their athletes. It's I think it's a

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Speaker 1: bummer for their fans, who you may like some of

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Speaker 1: the freshness of it, but instead of being able to say, hey,

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Speaker 1: let's go up the coast to the Bay Area to

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Speaker 1: see our team play this weekend, you're like, well, can

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Speaker 1: we afford to fly to State College Pennsylvania to see

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Speaker 1: our team play this weekend? I mean, you know, maybe

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Speaker 1: a trip to Nebraska? Right? I mean yeah, right? And

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Speaker 1: you know who doesn't want to go to Lincoln in November.

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Speaker 1: A lot to impact there. You hit on a lot

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Speaker 1: of really good points. I think the most important one

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Speaker 1: is that it's money, right, it's money for the Big ten,

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Speaker 1: it's money for USC and U C l A. But

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Speaker 1: you also mentioned, and you wrote about this as well,

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Speaker 1: that this was sort of a response for the Big

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Speaker 1: ten to what the SEC did in adding Oklahoma and Texas. Basically,

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Speaker 1: this is an arms race, right, absolutely, that's exactly what

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Speaker 1: it is. It's a TV arms race, and it's a

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Speaker 1: two conference arms race. Is the two biggest getting bigger, too, strongest,

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Speaker 1: getting stronger. It's Fox against the ESPN, Fox A line

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Speaker 1: with the Big ten, ESPN line with the SEC, and

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Speaker 1: everybody else is just being further pushed to the side

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Speaker 1: as these two megapowers accelerate their kind of a competition

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Speaker 1: with each other. When you talk about everybody else being

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Speaker 1: pushed aside, is this the end for the because we

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Speaker 1: talk about the Power five conferences, but really it's the

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Speaker 1: Power too and everybody else now, right, yeah, it is absolutely,

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Speaker 1: you know, I mean, that doesn't mean Clemson can't be

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Speaker 1: really good. And when national tizing the Tigers reclaimed their

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Speaker 1: crown by crushing Alabama, doesn't mean a team from the

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Speaker 1: Big twelve, Baylor and Oklahoma State can't be good. It

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Speaker 1: doesn't mean that an Oregon cannot compete for a national title.

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Speaker 1: But it's harder now, it is more difficult. You are

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Speaker 1: further behind in revenue, and you know what, what is

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Speaker 1: revenue being used for? Now? Most everybody's built every facility

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Speaker 1: you could possibly need. So the next thing is name,

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Speaker 1: image and likeness money, And now you've got more of

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Speaker 1: that you can give the players, which I am not

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Speaker 1: opposed to players getting the money, but this has become

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Speaker 1: purely a transactional situation here. So it's that it's how

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Speaker 1: big can our staff be, how much can we pay

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Speaker 1: our coaches? And you just try to money whip your competition,

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Speaker 1: and it's just harder and harder for everybody outside the

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Speaker 1: power to to compete with those two conferences. We've had

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Speaker 1: you on this program to talk about n I L before,

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Speaker 1: and that's a really interesting component of it that I

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Speaker 1: hadn't previously considered because I think like a few years

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Speaker 1: ago USC in U c l A, the actual quality

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Speaker 1: of their programs had lost a little bit of the

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Speaker 1: luster and diminished a little bit. How does n I

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Speaker 1: L factor in for these two schools? Do you expect

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Speaker 1: them to become dominant forces again because of it? And

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Speaker 1: also because they're joining the Big Ten. Well, I mean

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Speaker 1: it gives them kind of a renewed uh injection. I

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Speaker 1: think of competitiveness in those areas. Now, USC had kind

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Speaker 1: of already gotten there in the last offseason, right, USC

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Speaker 1: has found its new football coach Oklahoma suitors Lincoln Riley, Traits,

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Speaker 1: Crimson and Cream for Cardinal and Gold. They hired Lincoln Riley,

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Speaker 1: and it was it was basically, Okay, we're gonna go

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Speaker 1: take this home run swing, spend ninety million dollars higher

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Speaker 1: this coach, but then we're gonna have to do everything

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Speaker 1: that he says we need to do to compete, which

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Speaker 1: is going to be major n I L commitments there,

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Speaker 1: you know, and as you started seeing them landing big

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Speaker 1: time recruits and hey, there's a lot to like about

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Speaker 1: USC in Los Angeles. But it wasn't just for the beaches.

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Speaker 1: It's because there's gonna have to have some opportunities to

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Speaker 1: earn a lot of money. And I think being in

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Speaker 1: Los Angeles having huge alumni basis with a lot of

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Speaker 1: wealthy donors. I'm not sure how many all of them

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Speaker 1: care about football, but nothing of them probably do that

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Speaker 1: you can go to them and say, hey, we need

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Speaker 1: fifteen million a year ten million a year for N

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Speaker 1: I L purposes? Are you enter, you out? And so

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Speaker 1: I think that's kind of the next step. And I

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Speaker 1: think with those Los Angeles based schools that they'll have

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Speaker 1: a chance to to mind that particular area. All right. So,

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Speaker 1: as we mentioned, good for the schools in terms of money,

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Speaker 1: probably good for the student athletes in terms of money.

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Speaker 1: But in order for them to leave, they had to

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Speaker 1: leave something. Where does this leave the Pack twelve and

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Speaker 1: also the Big Twelve when we're talking about the SEC

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Speaker 1: defections of Oklahoma in Texas. Absolutely both conferences gutted of

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Speaker 1: their lynch pins. You know that the two most important

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Speaker 1: properties in each conference both gone. They're both hurting, no

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Speaker 1: doubt about it. And that's why there has been a

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Speaker 1: lot of talk John in the last couple of weeks

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Speaker 1: about put these two conferences one of their so weak

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Speaker 1: and would one poach the other. There's no such thing

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Speaker 1: as working together anymore in college sports, so it's more

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Speaker 1: like who's turning on whom? Uh? And I think the

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Speaker 1: Big Twelve has made it pretty clear they would take

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Speaker 1: some teams from the PAC twelve. The Pac twelve was

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Speaker 1: mad about that but really, I mean, we're still waiting

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Speaker 1: actually to see if like Oregon and Washington could go

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Speaker 1: to the Big Ten. I don't think that's imminent by

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Speaker 1: any stretch, but just the the very stability of the

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Speaker 1: PAC twelve and the Big twelve is so frail at

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Speaker 1: this point and so fraught, and they're not in it

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Speaker 1: to help each other. They are in it to compete

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Speaker 1: against each other for you know what whatever. Uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's next in the totem pole after the top two conferences,

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Speaker 1: it's those two in the A C C. I'll just

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Speaker 1: kind of scrapping it out. Yeah, it's it's really interesting

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Speaker 1: to see how these dominoes are gonna fall and whether

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Speaker 1: or not more teams will get poached. But for their

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Speaker 1: to be teams poached, somebody has to do the poaching.

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Speaker 1: I'm wondering about Big Ten commissioner Kevin Warren, where he

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Speaker 1: falls in all of this, and how he's being perceived.

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Speaker 1: It's obviously a boon for the conference, but I would

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Speaker 1: imagine other commissioners around the league probably not that happy

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Speaker 1: with him. Oh, I mean, like George Clicoff, I am sure,

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Speaker 1: is very bitter towards Kevin Warren. George Clicoff, the commissioner

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Speaker 1: of the PAC twelve for the last year and last

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Speaker 1: summer they had the quote unquote alliance between the PAC twelve,

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Speaker 1: the Big Ten, and the a c C to basically

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Speaker 1: kind of ward off SEC aggression more than anything. But

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Speaker 1: part of that was, hey, we're in this together. And

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Speaker 1: then you know, eleven months later, Kevin Warren just shanks

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Speaker 1: George Clay Coffin takes us to best schools. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's some real bitterness there. But Kevin Warren's boy, what

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Speaker 1: a evolution he's had in if you remember the Big Ten.

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Speaker 1: At first, wasn't going to play football and people were

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Speaker 1: vilifying him viciously. I mean to the point of death threats,

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Speaker 1: and not just a couple, but like hundreds of death threats.

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Speaker 1: People wanted him out as commissional. People thought he was weak,

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Speaker 1: out of touch, couldn't do it. And then last year

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Speaker 1: it looks like, okay, they're falling further behind the SEC,

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Speaker 1: which makes the Big Power move. Well, now he answers

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Speaker 1: with this move, and I think he's he's got a

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Speaker 1: new lease on life. I saw him at Big Ten

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Speaker 1: media days, and he has a a swagger and a

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Speaker 1: confidence about him that was non existing a couple of

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Speaker 1: years ago. Some really stark winners and losers and all

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Speaker 1: of this. Last one for you, Pad, I want to

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Speaker 1: ask you about us. Take off your journalism hat. Just

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Speaker 1: as a consumer of college sports? Are we winners or

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Speaker 1: losers in this? Do we like this? Just from a

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Speaker 1: consumption standpoint? I don't think so. I don't like it,

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Speaker 1: you know, to each their own, probably, But my feeling

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Speaker 1: is college football is at its best when it is

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Speaker 1: a national sport with different unique regional flavors that all

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Speaker 1: kind of stitched together, and the Pack twelve, which have

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Speaker 1: been around since the nineteen twenties. Schools were most of

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Speaker 1: the schools in the league. We're in there from the

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Speaker 1: vet from that time on for a century. You lose

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Speaker 1: something when there's not a West Coast champion, so to speak,

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Speaker 1: out there, you know, when when those schools are being

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Speaker 1: farmed out to go compete with schools they really don't

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Speaker 1: have much in common with. Uh, you lose something there,

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Speaker 1: and you lose something when the Southwest no longer as

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Speaker 1: you know, revolves around Texas and Oklahoma. It's just like, well,

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Speaker 1: they're just in there with Georgia and Alabama. You know

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Speaker 1: we've already gone, We've crossed the rubagne to agree. Already

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Speaker 1: we have West Virginia playing in the same conference with

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Speaker 1: Texas Tech. Alright, it's already ridiculous. But now you know,

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Speaker 1: we're not talking about us for June. We're talking about

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Speaker 1: USC We're talking about Texas, And I think you are

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Speaker 1: losing something that's really part of the the appeal of

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Speaker 1: college football. Yeah. I love the West Coast rivalries. I'm

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Speaker 1: less confident that I'm gonna get jazzed up for like

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Speaker 1: u C l A Iowa, but I guess we will

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Speaker 1: find out. Read his stories about college football and the

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Speaker 1: Power Conference realignment on si dot com. He's the best

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Speaker 1: in the biz. We'd make a commissioner over all of

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Speaker 1: it if we could. Pat forty, thank you for this.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, John, my pleasure, Thanks for listening, and a

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Speaker 1: reminder to please rate and review the show that helps

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Speaker 1: people find us. Sports Illustrated Weekly is a production of

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Speaker 1: Sports Illustrated and I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from

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Speaker 1: My Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

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Speaker 1: or wherever you get your favorite shows. And for more

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Speaker 1: of Sports Illustrated It's best stories and podcasts, visit SI

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Speaker 1: dot com. This episode of Sports Illustrated Weekly was produced

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Speaker 1: by Jordan Rizzieri, Jessica your Mooski, and Isaac Lee, who

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Speaker 1: was also our sound engineer. Our senior producers are Dan

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Speaker 1: Bloom and Harry sward Out. Our executive producers are Scott

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Speaker 1: Brody and me John Gonzalez. Our theme song is by

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Speaker 1: Nolan Schneider.