1 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 1: Welcome back to cutting the Distance. I met today's guest 2 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 1: about fifteen years ago on our local hunting forum, a 3 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:21,680 Speaker 1: hunting Washington dot com. I was just getting into turkey 4 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:25,440 Speaker 1: hunting and his tag name was Yelp, and so after 5 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:28,159 Speaker 1: kind of exchanging turkey hunting information with them for a 6 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 1: few years, we had finally just decided to go on 7 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 1: a hunt together, you know, mentor us a little bit, 8 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:36,640 Speaker 1: and so UM ended up joining up with Eric Broughton, 9 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:39,960 Speaker 1: great turkey color, great turkey hunter from here in Washington. 10 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:42,640 Speaker 1: Works for fish and wildlife, is out in the field 11 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 1: a ton just really had these Northeast turkeys kind of dialed. 12 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:50,239 Speaker 1: Another cool fact about Eric is his turkey camp. They 13 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:52,680 Speaker 1: share probably one of the most famed turkey camps on 14 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 1: the East Side. A ton of history, a ton of knowledge. 15 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:57,040 Speaker 1: I got to actually go back and hunt with Eric 16 00:00:57,120 --> 00:00:59,280 Speaker 1: last year and stay at their turkey camp, and it 17 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:01,800 Speaker 1: just can tell when you go in there. You know, 18 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 1: all the posters, all the lists on the wall. It's 19 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 1: just rooted deep in uh, you know, turkey hunting um, 20 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:09,440 Speaker 1: you know. And and there's been a lot of camps 21 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:11,360 Speaker 1: that have shared that. So welcome to the show. Eric, 22 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 1: Thanks Jason, great to be here. How are things looking 23 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:23,039 Speaker 1: over there on the east side this year? A lot 24 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 1: of snow this year, things are starting to hopefully get 25 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 1: closer to spring. But up north we have a lot 26 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:36,040 Speaker 1: of snow. So but birds are active. I watched a 27 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:39,160 Speaker 1: group this morning, a bunch of jakes strutting around with 28 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:42,680 Speaker 1: some hands. So the birds are on the right schedule. 29 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:45,680 Speaker 1: I just don't know if the weather is. Yeah, yeah, 30 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:49,120 Speaker 1: a little little extra snow over there, more so than normal. 31 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 1: And I'm gonna before we jump into our typical podcast here, 32 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:57,559 Speaker 1: I gotta go back and kind of relive a short 33 00:01:57,680 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 1: moment on the first turkey hunt we ever had together. 34 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 1: We were hunting a piece of ag that we had 35 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 1: some permission to against, a piece of public we had 36 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 1: been hunting on even more so. But we found ourselves 37 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:09,920 Speaker 1: that day out in the agg and we had to 38 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 1: kind of get across the field and the only one 39 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:16,760 Speaker 1: problem and our our approach was that swamp that was 40 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:19,360 Speaker 1: between us and the timber lion where the birds just 41 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:22,520 Speaker 1: walked into. And I'll never forget the day where I 42 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:25,200 Speaker 1: think you started handing me some stuff out of your vest, 43 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 1: or maybe you handed me your whole vest. And I'll 44 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:32,160 Speaker 1: let you finish the story from that point, but I 45 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 1: realize your dedication to killing birds at this very moment 46 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 1: is you continued on after that bird. That hunt was 47 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:45,120 Speaker 1: pretty phenomenal. We we had a hard time finding birds 48 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:49,280 Speaker 1: that day, and we finally saw that big tom strutting 49 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 1: over there on the other side of the pond, and 50 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:55,519 Speaker 1: we kind of approached from the most cover side and 51 00:02:55,520 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 1: and I thought, you know, there was we were kind 52 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 1: of at a at a point that we could not 53 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:06,960 Speaker 1: even get close enough for a shot. But the only 54 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 1: way was to basically give you my wallet and I 55 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:13,800 Speaker 1: think my vest and anything I didn't want to get wet, 56 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 1: And I took my shotgun and slithered down down into 57 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 1: the edge of the water. We had a you know 58 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:24,840 Speaker 1: in nineteen eighties, you know guy grown up in high 59 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 1: school and graduated eighty seven. You know that all those 60 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:30,400 Speaker 1: Rambo movies. I think we're in the back of my head. 61 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:34,240 Speaker 1: But I just kind of tried to get as close 62 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 1: as I could and and uh, you know, got wet, 63 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 1: but you know it was it was just trying to 64 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 1: get a good close shot to try to get that 65 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 1: bird down. And I can't remember did we get we 66 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 1: got pretty close, but I don't know if I got 67 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 1: close enough. Yeah, I can't remember. I know we didn't 68 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:57,200 Speaker 1: kill the bird. I can't. I couldn't remember if you 69 00:03:57,240 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 1: had shot or not. But all I remember is we 70 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 1: had you know, it was one of those hunts where 71 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 1: we struggled early on this This is one of those 72 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:06,640 Speaker 1: times where you were going, you know, through the swamp. 73 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:09,160 Speaker 1: But later on it was one of those things where 74 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 1: it's just you keep hunting, right, it's hunting, and then 75 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 1: towards the end we we ended up all three finding 76 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 1: a ton of success there at the end, which which 77 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:18,480 Speaker 1: turned out to be a great hunt. So we'll talk 78 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:22,920 Speaker 1: about that a little bit more. So typical to all 79 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 1: Cutting the Distance episodes, we're going to jump into questions 80 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 1: and answers from some of our listeners. And you have 81 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:33,719 Speaker 1: questions for me or my guests, feel free to reach 82 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 1: out on social media message us. You can email us 83 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:40,719 Speaker 1: at CTD at Phelps Gamecalls dot com, and we'll do 84 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 1: our best to get to get your questions in here. 85 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 1: And I pulled both of these from emails this week, 86 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 1: and I'm actually gonna give some credit to the questions 87 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 1: on where they're coming from. So the first question we 88 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 1: have today, Eric is I'm a first year hunter. I'm 89 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:57,599 Speaker 1: looking to turkey hunt in southern California's Cleveland National Forest, 90 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 1: which is chaparral and wood from eight hundred foot elevation 91 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 1: all the way up to six thousand feet. Some friends 92 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:07,719 Speaker 1: say a turkey vest is the best way to carry 93 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 1: all of your calls in gear. Others say stick with 94 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 1: a pack. Question for us for this terrain, which do 95 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 1: you feel is the best hike into the woods and 96 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 1: for hunting practicality? And this is a question given to 97 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:21,839 Speaker 1: us by David Marino. You know, that's a that's a 98 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 1: good question because you know when you're when you're trying 99 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:29,839 Speaker 1: to cover ground and then you're also changes in elevation. 100 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:33,559 Speaker 1: You know, if you got half your vest full of stuff, 101 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 1: it's really difficult. So there's a few sling packs, UM 102 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 1: that I would recommend. I think the new FHS Chest 103 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 1: pack for turkeys that would be perfect on this hunt 104 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:51,839 Speaker 1: because it's it has enough things that you have in it, 105 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 1: your calls, enough enough room, but it doesn't weigh you down. 106 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 1: It gives you the mobility to go up in elevation 107 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:01,680 Speaker 1: and try to find those birds. UM. There's lots of 108 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:05,359 Speaker 1: turkey straps and totes and that that ability. You know, 109 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 1: there's a lot of guys using packs too nowadays, Um 110 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 1: with the being able to carry a little bit more gear. 111 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:15,600 Speaker 1: But if you're you know, that's a lot warmer climate. 112 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 1: You know, I think less is better and I think 113 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 1: that if it was me, I would go with something 114 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:26,720 Speaker 1: simple and lightweight. Yeah, I'm I'm in that same boat. Um, 115 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 1: we've been using the new FHF UM. You know chest harness. Um. 116 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:33,679 Speaker 1: I didn't think I would like it. I was always 117 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:36,440 Speaker 1: growing up, I had a vest that had you know, everything. 118 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 1: I couldn't figure out if I had just a chest 119 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:41,159 Speaker 1: rig on, Um, how am I going to carry my 120 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:42,920 Speaker 1: decoys and how am I going to carry this? And 121 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:45,039 Speaker 1: I realized I was carrying a lot of extra stuff. 122 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:48,680 Speaker 1: So that that chest rig. I can carry a couple 123 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:51,479 Speaker 1: of pot calls. I can carry my box call attached 124 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 1: to the bottom if I need to all my diaphragms, 125 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 1: my shotgun shells, you know, my my small pair of buynos. 126 00:06:56,920 --> 00:07:00,120 Speaker 1: And then nowadays, if I'm using uh, you know, like 127 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 1: a Dave Smith decoy, they come in their own carrying 128 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:03,719 Speaker 1: bag where you can just kind of sling him across 129 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:06,280 Speaker 1: your shoulder if you need to, and if it's more 130 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:09,240 Speaker 1: of that running gun and I elect to leave my 131 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 1: my decoy back at the truck or the side by side, 132 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 1: I'm just throwing one of my chairs kind of over 133 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:18,240 Speaker 1: my shoulder. We'll talk a little bit about that later too, 134 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 1: is when we're setting up some of the things I 135 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:22,679 Speaker 1: like to do. But yeah, I think those chest riggs 136 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 1: where if you'd asked me ten years ago where I was, 137 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 1: you know, wanted to have the latest and greatest, most 138 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:32,920 Speaker 1: updated turkey vest. That chest rigg is pretty vialable and 139 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 1: you can keep a lot of your stuff in it, 140 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 1: especially when you're gonna be doing running and gunning. And 141 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:39,760 Speaker 1: I don't know if you're gonna find turkeys from eight 142 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 1: hundred to all the way up to six thousand feet 143 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:43,320 Speaker 1: or anywhere in between, or if you're going to be 144 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 1: hunting a section of that, but I'm going to assume David, 145 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:48,239 Speaker 1: that you're going to be you know, running and gunning 146 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 1: and change in elevation. I want to go light and quick, 147 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 1: and you know that that chest rigging and your gun 148 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 1: is plenty. The next one comes from Greg Laravier, and 149 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 1: I apologize if I mispronounced your name. But he was 150 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:04,680 Speaker 1: wondering tips and tricks for cleaning and storing our turkey 151 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 1: mouth calls. I'll let you go first there, Eric, how 152 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 1: you get extra life? I was just doing it the 153 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:13,120 Speaker 1: other day. I had some old Phelps mouth calls that 154 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 1: were kind of crusty that I forgot to store right 155 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 1: and pull them out and did the old you know, 156 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 1: mouthwash trick, just kind of there's and you know, the 157 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 1: alcohol is good for killing stuff, but they make some 158 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 1: mouthwashes I found out that don't have alcohol, and I 159 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 1: think they're they're better on the latex. So I have 160 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 1: some of that and it's alcohol free like listerine or whatever, 161 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 1: and I put that in old dixie cup, throw my 162 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 1: mouth calls in there, and then I'll take some toothpicks 163 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 1: or something, separate them, make sure they're dry, and then 164 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:47,439 Speaker 1: I'll storm in a plastic bag and get them ready 165 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:50,440 Speaker 1: for this year. It's critical that you do that. I 166 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 1: mean when I'm on turkey hunts, you know, and I'm 167 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:56,839 Speaker 1: you know, trying to get through those because we get 168 00:08:56,840 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 1: a month and a half here in Washington and you know, 169 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:01,199 Speaker 1: you're hunting and all kinds of weather and it's easy 170 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:03,559 Speaker 1: to pick up a chest cold or a running nose 171 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 1: or whatever, and you don't know, you know, if you 172 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:08,120 Speaker 1: have germs on any of those calls that you're using 173 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 1: last year. So it's either safe bit just to buy 174 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:13,839 Speaker 1: some brand new ones or or if you're going to 175 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 1: reuse them, you know, make sure that you use that 176 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 1: anaseptic and dry them out and keep them clean and fresh. Yeah, 177 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 1: that's that's the same with me. I've always been real hesitant, 178 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:28,360 Speaker 1: um to use mouthwashing. A lot of the recommendations online 179 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 1: same out you know, say to use mouthwash, which is 180 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:33,720 Speaker 1: great for killing all the bugs and and stuff, and 181 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:35,720 Speaker 1: on a lot of these turkey calls, most turkey calls 182 00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:37,560 Speaker 1: or triple reads if not a double reed, and there 183 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 1: are a few single reads out there, but you've got 184 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 1: you know, all kinds of you know, saliva and stuff 185 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:44,080 Speaker 1: that makes it down in there and gets trapped. And 186 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:47,000 Speaker 1: so that's really that toothpick goes in and allows air 187 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 1: to get down in between those layers and at least 188 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 1: dry those out, you know. But the mouthwashing, if I 189 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:54,680 Speaker 1: did use mouthwash, I would quickly then rinse with water 190 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:58,400 Speaker 1: and then dry the water out. Um, you know, even 191 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:00,719 Speaker 1: even on a hunt. A lot of of times I 192 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:04,760 Speaker 1: like to separate that top read from the bottom two reads, 193 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:07,720 Speaker 1: or that top read from the bottom read, just because 194 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 1: when they stick together, you don't get the rasp that 195 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 1: you the call was designed for. So there'll be times 196 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:16,439 Speaker 1: where they make read separators or just a dull toothpick 197 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 1: in between them just kind of keeps them separated so 198 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 1: when they dry that the calls functional. Otherwise you're gonna 199 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:23,200 Speaker 1: find when you're out in the woods. A lot of 200 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:24,600 Speaker 1: times I have to throw a call in my mouth 201 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 1: for a minute or two and kind of let it, 202 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:29,840 Speaker 1: you know, awaken or come back to life. Is it 203 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:32,080 Speaker 1: sits in your mouth, those reads will kind of separate 204 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:33,920 Speaker 1: again and then you'll get the rasp back out of them. 205 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:36,360 Speaker 1: And then you know, for long term storage, I like 206 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 1: to let them just sit and dry on a counter, 207 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:42,120 Speaker 1: you know, no extra heat anything, Just let them dry 208 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:43,559 Speaker 1: over a couple hours on the counter with the two 209 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:45,920 Speaker 1: picks and them take the toothpicks out, put them in 210 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:48,719 Speaker 1: a bag, make sure they're completely dry though, and then 211 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:50,320 Speaker 1: just throw them in your fridge if you want the 212 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:52,880 Speaker 1: longest life out of them. I'm very fortunate now where 213 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 1: you know I just go grab another handful of calls 214 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:58,080 Speaker 1: here from the shop and ghost. I'm always using fresh ones. 215 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 1: But if I'm trying to get you multiple years out 216 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:01,960 Speaker 1: of them, which you can out of Turkey calls with 217 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:04,680 Speaker 1: ELK calls, it's a lot more difficult with single reads 218 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:06,520 Speaker 1: and calls, it gets stressed a little bit more. But 219 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 1: you know these double and triple read turkey calls that 220 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:11,599 Speaker 1: are stretched tighter, Um, you can get a couple of 221 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:13,360 Speaker 1: years out of you. Take care of them and put 222 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:16,199 Speaker 1: them away. So um, no spot on advice, Eric, and 223 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 1: appreciate that. And once again, you have questions of your 224 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:22,840 Speaker 1: own for us here or either my guest or myself 225 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:26,800 Speaker 1: here on the show, please email us at CTD at 226 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:30,120 Speaker 1: Phelps Gamecalls dot com or feel free to hit us 227 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:33,560 Speaker 1: up and with the social message uh, you know, and 228 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:35,080 Speaker 1: get a hold of us and we'll do our best 229 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:36,640 Speaker 1: to get it on there. So we really appreciate the 230 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 1: questions there, David and Greg on today's show. Now we're 231 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 1: gonna jump into our normal discussion, but before that, I'm 232 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 1: gonna jump into a conversation about calls. I got asked 233 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:00,440 Speaker 1: in a bigger email if if before turkey, you know, 234 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:02,959 Speaker 1: the Turkey podcasts were over, if we can jump into 235 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:05,199 Speaker 1: what does what with calls? And so I'm going to 236 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:08,800 Speaker 1: take the time and go through diaphragms to start with, 237 00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 1: and then we'll go into pot calls, and then we'll 238 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:13,280 Speaker 1: go into kind of some box calls and and I know, Eric, 239 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:16,079 Speaker 1: you know, for instance, the very first thing that I'm 240 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 1: going to talk about, um, you know, you order our 241 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 1: calls typically in a larger frame, which you're like our 242 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:27,959 Speaker 1: pair of signature calls. Everyone's mouth, mouth shape, tongue shape, 243 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 1: the way that they add pressure, their lung capacity is 244 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:34,679 Speaker 1: all different. And so where I might prefer call A, 245 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:37,679 Speaker 1: you might prefer call X, you know. And it's it's 246 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:39,800 Speaker 1: really tough, and it's I don't want everybody to go 247 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:42,079 Speaker 1: out and buy everything we have, but you really need 248 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:43,719 Speaker 1: to go through a little bit of trial and error 249 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:46,120 Speaker 1: to figure out, you know, what type of caller you are, 250 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 1: what type of rasp you want out of your calls, 251 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 1: and all of that. You know, Eric, he calls on 252 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:54,079 Speaker 1: the pair of signature calls because they're built on more 253 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:57,200 Speaker 1: of what I would consider your old school wide frame, 254 00:12:57,280 --> 00:13:00,400 Speaker 1: you know, the frame sizes that night Inhale and Hunter 255 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 1: Specialties and all the the UM, what I would call 256 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:07,319 Speaker 1: your more traditional frame size is what Eric prefers for 257 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:10,920 Speaker 1: the most part. Yeah, So I use uh, I use 258 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:14,720 Speaker 1: those those larger frame mouth calls because it I have 259 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:17,880 Speaker 1: a larger palette and it allows me to you know, 260 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:21,680 Speaker 1: get that air across it. UM. And it some people's 261 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 1: palette is more narrow, you know, or high roofed or 262 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:26,760 Speaker 1: high pit you know, high kind of a high ceiling, 263 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:31,280 Speaker 1: and so they need that smaller frame UM, similar to 264 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:35,280 Speaker 1: you know, the the elk calls UM. And I can 265 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 1: use some of the other ones, but it seems like 266 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:40,000 Speaker 1: just the way I hold my mouth, I can't do 267 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:43,000 Speaker 1: all the calls. You know, everybody's different, you know, and 268 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:46,800 Speaker 1: so and how they blow UM. And I'm still learning myself. 269 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 1: So yeah, and that's that's where UM. You know, it's 270 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 1: maybe what you're more more familiar with. Like I used 271 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:55,600 Speaker 1: to use those all of the time, and then once 272 00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:58,320 Speaker 1: I started using these medium frames that we now build 273 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:00,839 Speaker 1: a majority of ours out of, and like me, eater line, 274 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:04,559 Speaker 1: they're more comfortable for me. But then guys like Chris 275 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 1: Parrish and some guys that they say that you can 276 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:10,440 Speaker 1: actually articulate the larger frames a little more because there 277 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:14,600 Speaker 1: is a wider distance for that latex. So there there's 278 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 1: lots of reasons. And then so first off, we have 279 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:19,920 Speaker 1: to find something that's comfortable. The second issue we need 280 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 1: to do. We need to be able to steal the 281 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 1: air off from the call and we use the tape 282 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:27,080 Speaker 1: for that and everybody, once again, everybody's mouth is different 283 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 1: shape the tape lays and they're different. So we need 284 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 1: to be able to steal that off. Number one to 285 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 1: get clarity, and number two to get the volume out 286 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:35,200 Speaker 1: of the call um. You know, if you're taking a 287 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 1: diapragm out of your mouth and you've got big folds 288 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:40,200 Speaker 1: along the edges or wrinkles, we either need to narrow 289 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 1: up your tape. We need to cut those wrinkles out 290 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:45,080 Speaker 1: so that we can get like a smooth you know, 291 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 1: get get the edge to lay down smooth, so no 292 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 1: air is going up above and we're getting all the 293 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 1: air to transfer over the latex between the latex and 294 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:55,640 Speaker 1: your tongue. So that's that's kind of the second part. 295 00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:58,440 Speaker 1: And then the next part is what type of color 296 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:01,120 Speaker 1: are you there? The old school color we say, are 297 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:04,640 Speaker 1: kind of like those Huffer style callers. They want thicker latex, 298 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 1: they want to blow harder into the call um that 299 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 1: there's not as much uh, you know, control over those. 300 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:14,360 Speaker 1: And then there's like this new age light profum, more 301 00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:18,360 Speaker 1: intricate calling that that seems to be UM kind of 302 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 1: taking off because people want to be able to do 303 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:23,800 Speaker 1: little light bubble clucks and nice little you know, very 304 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 1: quiet yelps and two to three note yelps, but then 305 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:29,160 Speaker 1: also be able to turn that call around and do 306 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:31,640 Speaker 1: your loud cutting and seven to nine oh yelps. So 307 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:35,040 Speaker 1: there's there's kind of two different calls, um, and and 308 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:37,320 Speaker 1: you're you're really gonna have to find what type of 309 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 1: color you are to figure out what type of diaphragms 310 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:43,400 Speaker 1: you like this. But real quick, I'm just I'm just 311 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 1: gonna run through kind of the rules of diaphragms. UM. 312 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:51,360 Speaker 1: You're gonna have an aluminum frame that will in case 313 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:56,200 Speaker 1: or keep latex or prophylactic stretch to a certain spec. 314 00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:59,280 Speaker 1: And by spec that means we're stretching it sideways from 315 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:01,400 Speaker 1: like side to side in your mouth, and we're stretching 316 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 1: it front to back. So we will typically stack up 317 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 1: two to three pieces of prophylactic or latex together and 318 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 1: intermix them based on what the result is that we want, 319 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:19,200 Speaker 1: and then we're going to contain that within this aluminum frame. Um. 320 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 1: The tightness of that latex um in combination with the 321 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:26,240 Speaker 1: thickness of that latex will then control the tone in 322 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:29,280 Speaker 1: pitch of the call um. It's all determined by the 323 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 1: how that latex or prof vibrates and the and the 324 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:36,680 Speaker 1: resonant vibration that we get back. And so we're a 325 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 1: lot of this can can kind of affect itself. Right, 326 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 1: if you go, you know, too thin and too tight, 327 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:43,120 Speaker 1: then you're going to be really high. But if you 328 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:44,880 Speaker 1: go thick and too tight, then you might be right 329 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 1: in the right spot. So there's a lot of trial 330 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:48,880 Speaker 1: and errors. We're sitting here designing calls, um, you know, 331 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:51,120 Speaker 1: similar to what I do for you Eric back. I 332 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 1: think three or four years ago, we kind of just 333 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:55,360 Speaker 1: figured out what calls you liked. I think I Ha's 334 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 1: you know, built twenty or thirty different ones and sent 335 00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:01,440 Speaker 1: them to you. UM. And it's really we're just doing 336 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 1: for the customer what we find to be like the 337 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 1: most average call. But there are guys we can build 338 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:10,879 Speaker 1: for that. Like it's really like custom fitting you for 339 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 1: a call, and you know, we can't do that for everybody, 340 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:15,280 Speaker 1: but um, when you when you boil it down, like 341 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:19,080 Speaker 1: you can really get nitpicky and really get calls designed 342 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:22,080 Speaker 1: for what people are specific you know, specifically looking for. Yeah, 343 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 1: I think the difference between between your calls UM and 344 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:30,359 Speaker 1: some of the you know, store bought ones is the 345 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:33,960 Speaker 1: ability to um the standard you know that you've that 346 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:37,359 Speaker 1: you've built into the call. So like I might have 347 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:40,480 Speaker 1: to buy two or three of a different brand, and 348 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 1: I might get one of those that I like, and 349 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:47,200 Speaker 1: when I pick up yours, you know they're very similar. 350 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:49,640 Speaker 1: So you so I can buy a couple of them, 351 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:50,959 Speaker 1: I know that I'm gonna be able to use all 352 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:54,680 Speaker 1: of them, and so it's really really great. Yeah. Yeah, 353 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:56,400 Speaker 1: I wish I could take credit for that, But that 354 00:17:56,440 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 1: goes back to my team, UM our builders, our builders. 355 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:02,600 Speaker 1: You know, I get to come up with the specs 356 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:04,920 Speaker 1: and you know, I work with Chris Parish really closely 357 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:07,560 Speaker 1: and some of our other um you know groups like you, 358 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:09,439 Speaker 1: and we figure out what people want. But then our 359 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:12,880 Speaker 1: builders are just top notch. They're not willing to sacrifice. Um. 360 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:16,000 Speaker 1: You know, I tell them all the time, like, don't 361 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:18,919 Speaker 1: worry about turning around and throwing a call in the 362 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:21,120 Speaker 1: garbage if you feel that there's any question that it's 363 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:23,879 Speaker 1: not going to work like we're not. We're about producing quality, 364 00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 1: not necessarily quantity, so um that that all goes to them. UM. 365 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:31,520 Speaker 1: But as a generality, like these intricate colors, UM prefer 366 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:34,560 Speaker 1: thinner reads, you know, the new profs UM. They'll require 367 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:37,160 Speaker 1: a little bit less error to run. UM. But as 368 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:40,879 Speaker 1: a result, typically the pitches higher UM for a similar 369 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:43,399 Speaker 1: stretch thicker reads, they demand more airor to call on 370 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:45,600 Speaker 1: them and to get the same um you know, pitch 371 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:47,960 Speaker 1: and tone. But a lot of times if you don't 372 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:50,840 Speaker 1: overstretch a thick piece of latex, the tone's going to 373 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:54,560 Speaker 1: be lower and deeper. UM. So we're kind of playing 374 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:57,600 Speaker 1: with all of this stuff. UM. As we're designing calls. 375 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:00,320 Speaker 1: I want to get into a little bit on asp. 376 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:03,880 Speaker 1: You know, that's one thing that that is determined by 377 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:07,800 Speaker 1: typically on our calls, the top read. Um, we we 378 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:10,040 Speaker 1: stack this latex and then when we go to we 379 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 1: we build a call and they come out of the 380 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:14,879 Speaker 1: press with three straight reads. Right. We haven't taken our 381 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:18,359 Speaker 1: scissors to them yet at all, And that over that 382 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:22,240 Speaker 1: top read overhangs just slightly, or it could be a lot, 383 00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 1: or it could be just a little bit. Um. We 384 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:26,480 Speaker 1: then go and take our cuts out of it, you know, 385 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 1: a typical cuts like the combo cut. Um, we have 386 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:32,400 Speaker 1: a ghost cut, we have a cutter's cut, we have 387 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:36,240 Speaker 1: a bat wing. And all that is trying to accomplish 388 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:39,240 Speaker 1: is you're leaving just a little bit of latex or 389 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:43,680 Speaker 1: prophylactic overhanging the bottom two reads. And as you imagine, 390 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 1: we're running that air underneath off of two you know, 391 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 1: two flat or straight reads that have no cuts in, 392 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 1: and that air comes under the latex and turns that 393 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:56,280 Speaker 1: corner and it hits those pieces of latex that are 394 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 1: now cut overhanging, and that's what creates that buzz and 395 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:02,239 Speaker 1: creates your rasp. So that's where your rasp comes. Well, 396 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:04,720 Speaker 1: now you can start to think, well, if I was 397 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:07,679 Speaker 1: to cut a thicker back a bat wing, or if 398 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:10,560 Speaker 1: I was just to put like online our sassy split, 399 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:12,920 Speaker 1: be if I just put two V cuts and leave 400 00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:14,919 Speaker 1: all the latex there, that's obviously going to be your 401 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:18,000 Speaker 1: highest rasp call. Well, I can make that latex thicker, 402 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 1: which gives you a deeper rasp. I can make that 403 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 1: latex thinner, which gives you more of a high pitch rasp. 404 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:25,159 Speaker 1: And so you can start to see how like the 405 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:30,919 Speaker 1: combinations are almost endless on a diaphragm. For beginners, we 406 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:34,399 Speaker 1: always recommend like a casper or like the Meat Eaters 407 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:37,880 Speaker 1: easy Clucker, real light prof with a big chunk cut 408 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 1: out of the center, really easy to light up the 409 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:43,360 Speaker 1: trip in hand. The Meat Eater three pack like those 410 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:45,560 Speaker 1: are good beginner calls if you don't know exactly what 411 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:49,280 Speaker 1: you're after, those are gonna be easy to use, easy 412 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:51,280 Speaker 1: for you to get sound in the correct you know, 413 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:53,760 Speaker 1: amount of rasp. And that's kind of our little rundown, 414 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 1: our one on one on diaphragms. And then we've already 415 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:01,639 Speaker 1: I had some you know, some care instructions here, but 416 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:05,160 Speaker 1: we pretty much went over most of that moving into 417 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:07,359 Speaker 1: pot calls, and we have a we have a story, 418 00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:09,679 Speaker 1: you know, when when I first hunt it with you, 419 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:11,480 Speaker 1: I was still kind of new to the game and 420 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:13,680 Speaker 1: we had we were working a bird, and I've seen 421 00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:15,879 Speaker 1: you almost roll out like this big rolodex where he 422 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 1: rolled it out on the ground, and you must have 423 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:22,199 Speaker 1: had a little envelope of twelve fifteen strikers. And it 424 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 1: was that day, at that moment where I realized that, hey, 425 00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 1: different woods, different strikers matter, because I think you'd went 426 00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:30,440 Speaker 1: through three of your favorite strikers to start with, and 427 00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 1: the bird was just kind of disinterested and we were 428 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:36,400 Speaker 1: giving him a little bit of a break between calling, 429 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:38,760 Speaker 1: and then you hit I don't remember fourth or fifth striker, 430 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:40,399 Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, that bird was hammer and hammering, 431 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:41,880 Speaker 1: and we called him right up to the road there. 432 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:44,000 Speaker 1: I don't know if you remember that, but that was 433 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:47,359 Speaker 1: like a lightbulb going off in my mind. Yeah, there's 434 00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:52,440 Speaker 1: that fifteen. I probably have like twenty five now, but yeah, 435 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 1: all those different materials, different thicknesses, different tips, you know, 436 00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:02,439 Speaker 1: the tip of the striker. They all make it sound. 437 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:07,240 Speaker 1: You can use one call and have several different sounding hens, 438 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:11,399 Speaker 1: and uh and like you know that one that Tom 439 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:16,040 Speaker 1: might be out there, you know, infatuated with one sounding hend, 440 00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:18,600 Speaker 1: you know. And I've done it several times where I 441 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:21,240 Speaker 1: just at my wits end and I just sit down 442 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:23,080 Speaker 1: and take a break, pull that thing out, and I'll 443 00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:25,720 Speaker 1: let's start cranking out on a slate call or one 444 00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:29,119 Speaker 1: of the glass calls, and and try different combos and 445 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:32,479 Speaker 1: then next thing, you know, I'll strike a bird just 446 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:35,919 Speaker 1: by doing that. But yeah, that that material and the 447 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 1: hardness in the link. I mean, there's all kinds of 448 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:43,960 Speaker 1: little factors, um that go into it. Yep. So going 449 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 1: through pot calls, it's it's very similar to what we 450 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 1: just talked about on the diaphragms. There are a lot 451 00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:50,919 Speaker 1: of factors and how they all affect each other is 452 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:54,280 Speaker 1: is sometimes unknown. There are some rule thumbs um. You know, 453 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:57,920 Speaker 1: I always attribute your playing surface, you know, your your 454 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 1: turkey call, and this is going to be a horrible 455 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 1: rendition if you imagine it is like key yolk. You 456 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:04,960 Speaker 1: have your top, which is your key, and then your 457 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:07,040 Speaker 1: oak is kind of is that call breaks over and 458 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:09,280 Speaker 1: you get to the deep end yuke, you know you 459 00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:12,400 Speaker 1: got So I've always felt that, like the high note, 460 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:15,360 Speaker 1: the key is controlled by the playing surface, and then 461 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:18,160 Speaker 1: your your drop off, your rollover into the second note 462 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:21,320 Speaker 1: is controlled more by your soundboard, and then your wood 463 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:26,880 Speaker 1: density controls or contributes to both. Right. So within wood, 464 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:29,240 Speaker 1: one thing I want to say about anything that's made 465 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:31,280 Speaker 1: out of wood, and maybe even more so this is 466 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:33,720 Speaker 1: more specific to box calls, is wood is a naturally 467 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:37,360 Speaker 1: occurring material is as much as we try to get 468 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:42,639 Speaker 1: straight grained you know, walnuts, cherries, mahoganies, whatever wood we're using, 469 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 1: it's natural and there's gonna be variations, and so there's 470 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 1: always going to be slight differences from call to call 471 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:51,000 Speaker 1: because we can't control it. The same thing with naturally 472 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:56,439 Speaker 1: natural existing slate um you know, it's mined out of 473 00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:59,320 Speaker 1: you know, minds in Virginia and New York or wherever 474 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:01,840 Speaker 1: it comes from. Slate you know, comes out of these 475 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:05,120 Speaker 1: naturally occurring materials are always going to have slight variabilities 476 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:07,080 Speaker 1: in them, and so that's one thing as a call 477 00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:09,160 Speaker 1: builder I can't control. But we're trying to just kind 478 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,280 Speaker 1: of hit the middle and make sure that all these calls, 479 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:16,760 Speaker 1: you know, turn out. So back to that would we're 480 00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:19,600 Speaker 1: going to adjust the sidewall thickness is on your pot 481 00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:21,880 Speaker 1: calls are going to matter. Your base thickness is going 482 00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:26,960 Speaker 1: to matter. How we cut your soundboard pedestals. Like if 483 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,080 Speaker 1: I'm when I used to turn them on a lathe, 484 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:33,440 Speaker 1: I would have a circle a circle pedestal, and then 485 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:35,560 Speaker 1: if I was to cut little notches in so that 486 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:37,800 Speaker 1: the sound can get into that center circle, or if 487 00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:40,359 Speaker 1: you leave if you omit the center circle now, but 488 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:42,880 Speaker 1: now I have you know, potentially what looks like to 489 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 1: toothpick sticks to the bottom. All of this matters way 490 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:48,920 Speaker 1: more than you can ever imagine. As we're designing these 491 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:53,920 Speaker 1: pot calls, right, how the grain lines up with these 492 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:56,879 Speaker 1: pedestals now matters. You know. All this stuff is is 493 00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 1: stuff that we're taking into account as we're building these calls. 494 00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:02,960 Speaker 1: You know, the harder, more dense woods will tend to 495 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:08,119 Speaker 1: produce typically a higher pitched or a tighter type tone. 496 00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:11,480 Speaker 1: Your softer, less dense woods will tend to produce a 497 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:14,480 Speaker 1: more natural, open tone. But then they're as I mentioned, 498 00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:17,600 Speaker 1: there's all these combinations. If I throw a crystal, it's 499 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:20,199 Speaker 1: playing surface in or if I throw a slate, it's 500 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:23,639 Speaker 1: going to react a little bit differently. So crystal very 501 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:27,000 Speaker 1: high pitched glass slightly below it. You've got your aluminum, 502 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:28,720 Speaker 1: which seems to be very high pitched with a little 503 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:30,600 Speaker 1: bit of rasp in it. You've got your slate, which 504 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:35,439 Speaker 1: is really easy to kind of grab with your striker. 505 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:37,240 Speaker 1: It's a little more forgiving on your striker, but it 506 00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:39,760 Speaker 1: also tends to be a little bit more I don't 507 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:41,359 Speaker 1: know if this is the right word. It's not as sharp, 508 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:43,480 Speaker 1: it's a little more dull. And then when you use 509 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:45,680 Speaker 1: gray slate as your soundboard, it tends to kind of 510 00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:49,080 Speaker 1: dull your your rollover. Versus, if you put crystal over 511 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:51,639 Speaker 1: aluminium or alumin ouver crystal, you get a real sharp 512 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:54,919 Speaker 1: sound that maybe not everybody has. And so as a 513 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:58,880 Speaker 1: call designer, I'm working on how you combine all these 514 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,639 Speaker 1: materials to give you a unique sound but also still 515 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:06,560 Speaker 1: talks turkey. And then we just told the example of Eric's. 516 00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:12,479 Speaker 1: You know, using multiple strikers, there are endless amounts of 517 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:16,879 Speaker 1: striker designs. You know, typically the denser the wood, the 518 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,800 Speaker 1: less woods needed on your striker. If it's a light, 519 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:23,600 Speaker 1: softer wood, you'll typically have a bigger striker. And it's 520 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:27,320 Speaker 1: amazing to me how certain strikers pair with certain calls 521 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:29,480 Speaker 1: or can bring a call that seems dead to life, 522 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:33,399 Speaker 1: and vice versa. So the moral of the story is 523 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:35,160 Speaker 1: play with a lot of pots, play with a lot 524 00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:38,399 Speaker 1: of strikers. And one thing I want to mention is 525 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,560 Speaker 1: your location on the pot call. Like, I'm typically a 526 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:45,040 Speaker 1: twelve o'clock caller, so I like to set the pad 527 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:47,919 Speaker 1: of my thumb down on the bottom edge of the wood, 528 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:52,080 Speaker 1: and that kind of naturally puts a striker at twelve o'clock. 529 00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:53,840 Speaker 1: But I can play a call at twelve o'clock or 530 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:56,679 Speaker 1: three o'clock and sound completely different. So play with different 531 00:26:56,680 --> 00:27:01,720 Speaker 1: positions on the call, get those spots conditioned up, and yeah, 532 00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:04,080 Speaker 1: just just find what works best for you. And then 533 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:09,439 Speaker 1: box calls. You know, everything seems no matter, but in 534 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:12,920 Speaker 1: its simplest form, you have a bottom block of wood 535 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:14,679 Speaker 1: that has a chamber out of it, and you have 536 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:18,320 Speaker 1: a paddle with the radius, and those are based Those 537 00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:22,200 Speaker 1: calls are based strictly on friction. You need the top 538 00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:25,400 Speaker 1: wood to grab the bottom wood, and as those create 539 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:28,639 Speaker 1: friction across they're they're going to make the yelp or 540 00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:31,720 Speaker 1: the turkey sound that you're looking for. The wall is 541 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:33,879 Speaker 1: going to basically vibrate. So the taller the wall, the 542 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,639 Speaker 1: deader the vibration. The shorter the wall, the more shrill 543 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:39,919 Speaker 1: the vibration. The paddle typically will start to write on 544 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,040 Speaker 1: the outside of the wall, and then with that radius 545 00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:44,760 Speaker 1: that's built into the box is it swipes over. You're 546 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:46,640 Speaker 1: now going from writing on the outside of the wall 547 00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:48,080 Speaker 1: to the inside of the wall, and that's where you 548 00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:52,280 Speaker 1: get your breakover on these calls. You know, we're going 549 00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:55,280 Speaker 1: to use a bunch of different wood combinations. We typically 550 00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:59,240 Speaker 1: like to have our denser, tighter wood as the paddle 551 00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:03,119 Speaker 1: and our our softer, less dense wood is the base. Um, 552 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,080 Speaker 1: we have a ratio we kind of like to stick to. 553 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:07,199 Speaker 1: But that's the that's the fun of building calls as 554 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:09,800 Speaker 1: you can get those woods. You know, you can use 555 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:12,800 Speaker 1: real dense woods on both sides and see what sound 556 00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 1: that's gonna give you that real high pitch um more 557 00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:18,320 Speaker 1: of the sound that's indicative of like a long box 558 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:22,000 Speaker 1: and you can get a real um, your raspy kind 559 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:24,560 Speaker 1: of a if you use too softer woods. So we 560 00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:28,320 Speaker 1: play with that. But um, that's we're also weakening the walls. 561 00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:29,840 Speaker 1: You know, you see a lot of our box calls. 562 00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:32,240 Speaker 1: You'll see us with curves down the side or checkering 563 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:34,840 Speaker 1: in the side. That's in order to kind of thin 564 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,240 Speaker 1: and weaken that wall in order to get us to 565 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:40,400 Speaker 1: kind of dial in on that turkey sound. So um, 566 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:45,120 Speaker 1: that's that's a real quick rundown of what matters and diaphragms, 567 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:47,440 Speaker 1: pot calls and box calls. Do you have anything to 568 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 1: add there? Eric on the on the box calls, you know, 569 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:57,560 Speaker 1: the there's different links, there's small you know, very small ones. Um, 570 00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:01,120 Speaker 1: different materials, I mean, all those things. I mean I 571 00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:07,760 Speaker 1: have thirty different box calls and and for different applications, 572 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:11,400 Speaker 1: you know, the old long box calls or the or 573 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:14,360 Speaker 1: great and like the wind windy days, you know, compared 574 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:18,000 Speaker 1: to maybe a cedar call or or like some of 575 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:22,000 Speaker 1: the some of the new calls that you came out 576 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:24,440 Speaker 1: with last year. You know, some of those calls just 577 00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 1: are really nice because of the types of materials that 578 00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:31,560 Speaker 1: you put in them, and they're they're the right size, 579 00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:34,680 Speaker 1: you know. Um. But there's there's days where I'll grab 580 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:38,360 Speaker 1: the big old Quaker Boy or whatever because it's I 581 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:40,239 Speaker 1: got you know, ten mile an hour winds and that 582 00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:44,080 Speaker 1: thing just cranks out some some good yelps, you know, 583 00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:47,600 Speaker 1: and gets those birds to react to it. So yeah, yeah, 584 00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:49,880 Speaker 1: those long boxes like to my ears, I'm sitting here 585 00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:51,640 Speaker 1: playing them in my office or the ones I've played 586 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,479 Speaker 1: with in the past. Man, that doesn't sound exactly like 587 00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:56,440 Speaker 1: I like, but the results are what's there? You get 588 00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:59,600 Speaker 1: that long box out, like you said, this big Northeast 589 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:02,560 Speaker 1: country that we've hunted, you know, big distances, or you 590 00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:04,480 Speaker 1: throw a little bit of wind at that big distance 591 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:08,600 Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, that shrill, um, ear piercing, 592 00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:12,040 Speaker 1: overly loud call is what's going to get that turkey's attention. 593 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 1: So I'm I'm on board with with why you would 594 00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:18,120 Speaker 1: use a long box. Um. You have you have short boxes, 595 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:21,360 Speaker 1: which tend to be a little raspier, a little bit 596 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 1: I'm hesitant to use the word hollow, but they have 597 00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:27,320 Speaker 1: a little bit more of that hollow sound. Um. Most 598 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:29,720 Speaker 1: of our box calls are right down the middle. Um, 599 00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:32,840 Speaker 1: we want it to be a universal call. Um, And 600 00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:36,560 Speaker 1: like I say, we we've we've adjusted the sides. But um, yeah, 601 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:39,720 Speaker 1: box calls are a great tool. They're the first ones 602 00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:41,680 Speaker 1: though I feel that get thrown out of your vest. 603 00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:44,400 Speaker 1: You know, is is if there's any chance of precipitation, 604 00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:48,040 Speaker 1: box calls become pretty I don't want to say useless. 605 00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:51,560 Speaker 1: There are there are treatments out there. You can treat 606 00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:54,280 Speaker 1: your paddle, you can treat your edges. Um. I've always 607 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:56,440 Speaker 1: just liked wood on wood and I've got mouth calls 608 00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:58,320 Speaker 1: or pot calls that will work in all weather. So 609 00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:00,240 Speaker 1: the you know, the box calls kind of the first 610 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:03,320 Speaker 1: thing that gets tossed. Yeah, I agree. I use the 611 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:09,040 Speaker 1: box call probably more often on public land because you know, 612 00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:12,320 Speaker 1: those turkeys have been here, and diaphragm calls and other things, 613 00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:16,239 Speaker 1: you know, and sometimes having just an extra call, you know, 614 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:20,479 Speaker 1: to try sometimes that'll you know, get a bird to gobble, 615 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 1: you know, they haven't heard it before. Something different. Yep, yep, 616 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:28,160 Speaker 1: I'm And we'll get into that here. A little bit 617 00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:30,880 Speaker 1: on some of this small parcels, small public type stuff 618 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:33,040 Speaker 1: that you kind of open our eyes to a little 619 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:35,200 Speaker 1: bit way back in the day, is you have to 620 00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:38,320 Speaker 1: do something different. Like if everybody's got out of the 621 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:41,720 Speaker 1: truck on a certain corner and blown the same woodpecker call, 622 00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:44,760 Speaker 1: like you've got to give that that. Maybe it'll work again, 623 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:47,200 Speaker 1: maybe it'll work for the hundred time, maybe it won't. 624 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:49,360 Speaker 1: And so if you don't have the ability to throw 625 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:51,480 Speaker 1: something different at them, and that's where I think, if 626 00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:54,080 Speaker 1: you're as far as you know calls that make turkey 627 00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:57,880 Speaker 1: noises or hind noises, that box call is sometimes your 628 00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:00,400 Speaker 1: best bet. Not everybody's running a box call. A lot 629 00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:03,040 Speaker 1: of the box calls sound quite a bit different from 630 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:05,040 Speaker 1: each other, um, and so you can use that to 631 00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:22,800 Speaker 1: your advantage. So right now we're going to jump into 632 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:26,240 Speaker 1: to our discussion. Um, Like I said, I've got I've 633 00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:28,760 Speaker 1: got the fortune to hunt with you. I don't know 634 00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:30,880 Speaker 1: if we want two or three times we went over 635 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:33,640 Speaker 1: there and hunted together, and UM, I've learned a lot, 636 00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:35,640 Speaker 1: you know, kind of what I thought we knew because 637 00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:38,240 Speaker 1: we had hunted the same area over there for quite 638 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:40,400 Speaker 1: a while. And UM, the first thing I want to 639 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:42,600 Speaker 1: kind of pick your brain on and have you talk 640 00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:45,760 Speaker 1: about is what I would call like some small public 641 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:49,200 Speaker 1: parcels um and how you you hunt them, why you 642 00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:51,480 Speaker 1: hunt them? And a lot of people just overlook these things. 643 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:56,040 Speaker 1: But what's your approach to um small public hunting? Um? 644 00:32:56,400 --> 00:33:02,400 Speaker 1: And and give us a little insight to that. Yeah. There, 645 00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:05,400 Speaker 1: we're really fortunate in Washington to have lots of public land, 646 00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:10,360 Speaker 1: you know, and there's lots of opportunities to to find 647 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:15,080 Speaker 1: places to hunt. And you know there's there might be 648 00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:19,920 Speaker 1: one hundred and sixty acre quarter section, um that might 649 00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:24,640 Speaker 1: be public land next to a big piece of BLM 650 00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:27,400 Speaker 1: or whatever. And sometimes it's just to get you access 651 00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:30,880 Speaker 1: to maybe a better piece of ground. But when I approach, 652 00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:34,520 Speaker 1: you know, the idea in my in my approach is 653 00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:37,880 Speaker 1: having lots of spots, you know, and with some of 654 00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:41,560 Speaker 1: the online tools like on X and hunt on X, 655 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:45,760 Speaker 1: and you know, it's allowed everybody access to those and 656 00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:47,800 Speaker 1: so a lot of the places that I thought I had, 657 00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:50,800 Speaker 1: you know, to myself, now there's lots of people. But 658 00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:58,000 Speaker 1: tried and true, Um, those early morning hunts um on 659 00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:05,520 Speaker 1: public land are sometimes worth your time. But eighty percent 660 00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:08,080 Speaker 1: of the time when I go back into those properties 661 00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:12,319 Speaker 1: in the afternoon when people have left, those birds are 662 00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:16,279 Speaker 1: more available. And it's just the cycle, you know of 663 00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:19,920 Speaker 1: how those birds come off the roost and the hens 664 00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:22,120 Speaker 1: you know, do their thing in the morning, and the 665 00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:24,560 Speaker 1: toms are waiting for him to make a move, and 666 00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:26,800 Speaker 1: then the hens take off and go to a nest 667 00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:29,160 Speaker 1: and they kind of separate those tombs, and the toms 668 00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:31,560 Speaker 1: will move off with the hens, and and you know, 669 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:33,839 Speaker 1: everybody's trying to call at them and stuff like that, 670 00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:38,760 Speaker 1: and you know, after a while, the hens lose the toms, 671 00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:41,000 Speaker 1: and then the toms are wandering around trying to find, 672 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,840 Speaker 1: you know, the next available hen or try to regroup 673 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:49,560 Speaker 1: with maybe another tom. But you know, you show up 674 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:53,319 Speaker 1: at about eleven eleven thirty and everybody else is back 675 00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:57,080 Speaker 1: at camp having a sandwich. You strike up a big 676 00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:02,440 Speaker 1: old tom and so don't overlook you know, private or 677 00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:08,160 Speaker 1: public land, because especially in the afternoon, and you know, 678 00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:10,440 Speaker 1: a lot of the lot of the locals, there's I 679 00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:14,879 Speaker 1: hunt several pieces of public land. UM. One of one 680 00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:16,960 Speaker 1: of the ones is pretty close to where we camp, 681 00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:22,320 Speaker 1: and I built a blind on this one small parcel 682 00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:25,279 Speaker 1: and I and I found this place and it's just 683 00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:28,120 Speaker 1: a natural blind out of some sticks and limbs. But 684 00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:32,480 Speaker 1: I found this spot within that piece of public land 685 00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:38,480 Speaker 1: that my call carried to the north and to the south, 686 00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:41,040 Speaker 1: and it just was a great spot to call from. 687 00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:45,120 Speaker 1: And so being able to set up a blind in 688 00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:50,360 Speaker 1: that area, UM, it turned out to be probably the 689 00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:53,960 Speaker 1: one of the best spots where we've killed birds out 690 00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:57,760 Speaker 1: of our camp. And I think we're at thirty plus 691 00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:01,080 Speaker 1: tombs have taken out of that blind. And it's just 692 00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:03,799 Speaker 1: the way that that call carries. And so, you know, 693 00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:07,759 Speaker 1: not all public lands are are created equal. You know. 694 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:10,640 Speaker 1: Some of them have elevation, some of them don't. Some 695 00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:14,640 Speaker 1: of them are right along highways, UM, a lot of 696 00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:16,759 Speaker 1: them have public views. I've sat in that blind and 697 00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:19,960 Speaker 1: watched people walk right by and they wave at me. 698 00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:22,360 Speaker 1: And you know, I mean, and that's public land hunting, 699 00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:25,680 Speaker 1: you know. Um, but we always kill birds in those 700 00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:28,520 Speaker 1: areas because you know, we figured them out. And having 701 00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:30,719 Speaker 1: that in the back of your head and just the 702 00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:35,239 Speaker 1: you know, over the I don't know thirty years I've 703 00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:39,320 Speaker 1: been hunting birds now, you know, having all those different 704 00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:43,360 Speaker 1: memories and spots and hunts, it just adds to you know, what, 705 00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:45,840 Speaker 1: what you're able to, you know, go to, you know, 706 00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:49,319 Speaker 1: down the road. But um, yeah, don't give up on 707 00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:52,799 Speaker 1: those those public land spots, especially in the afternoon. Yeah. 708 00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:56,200 Speaker 1: And you know when I say small parcels, like we're 709 00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:58,840 Speaker 1: talking maybe a section on one side the road, in 710 00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:01,239 Speaker 1: a section on any other and and I almost feel like, 711 00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:05,560 Speaker 1: what you're not willing to say that that I can't 712 00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:09,319 Speaker 1: kill a bird on that one little section where when 713 00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:11,480 Speaker 1: I'm putting my morning plan together, I want to be 714 00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:14,279 Speaker 1: able to maybe run or chase a bird or you know, 715 00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:16,400 Speaker 1: chase it off the roost or hunt it off the 716 00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:20,080 Speaker 1: roost where it wants to go. What I found I 717 00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:22,920 Speaker 1: mean last year are we we showed up there, got 718 00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:25,400 Speaker 1: to camp, unloaded, we went and bought our tags, and 719 00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:28,000 Speaker 1: we rolled up to a spot and I don't think 720 00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:29,719 Speaker 1: this will give it away. There was a parcel on 721 00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:32,120 Speaker 1: the right that went down towards public and a parcel 722 00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:34,680 Speaker 1: on the left. We showed up, hit the woodpecker call 723 00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:37,720 Speaker 1: and had a tom just hammer right off the bat 724 00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:41,080 Speaker 1: And I don't know how many people would have even 725 00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:44,960 Speaker 1: stopped there to call, because you only had one parcel 726 00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:48,120 Speaker 1: on either side of you. Albeit, we end up losing 727 00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:50,239 Speaker 1: the battle. Right. We called that bird all the way 728 00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:52,920 Speaker 1: into the barbed wire fence, but where that parcel we 729 00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:54,680 Speaker 1: couldn't get him to cross the fence. We thought we 730 00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:56,799 Speaker 1: were going to. But that was just one of those examples. 731 00:37:57,239 --> 00:38:01,719 Speaker 1: Middle of the day, people driving around, nobody's stopping at 732 00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:05,799 Speaker 1: these two small little sections and to have a bird. Um, 733 00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:08,600 Speaker 1: we go set up and within what ten minutes we 734 00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:10,680 Speaker 1: had that bird at twenty five yards, We just couldn't 735 00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:13,040 Speaker 1: get him across the fence where we could finally Shyeah, 736 00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:16,400 Speaker 1: we gave it everything we had too, but it was 737 00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:20,480 Speaker 1: and you're you're right, you know that. The other thing 738 00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:24,080 Speaker 1: to look at is how that those public lands are arranged. 739 00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:28,400 Speaker 1: You know, Um, sometimes you'll have that particular one was 740 00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:30,520 Speaker 1: next to a big field. You know where you know, 741 00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:33,560 Speaker 1: a turkey would want to spend time, and so trying 742 00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:37,359 Speaker 1: to pull birds off of other properties. Um, I've done 743 00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:40,600 Speaker 1: that a lot. They might like the the next guy's 744 00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:44,640 Speaker 1: land because there's water and cover, and but when the 745 00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:47,520 Speaker 1: breeding's going on and those toms are looking for hims, 746 00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:52,120 Speaker 1: those toms will sometimes go miles to find a girlfriend. 747 00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:54,719 Speaker 1: So it's uh, yeah, we came really close that day. 748 00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:58,200 Speaker 1: It was pretty awesome. We we gave him a show. 749 00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:01,640 Speaker 1: We tried everything, I think every call we had yep, 750 00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:03,840 Speaker 1: and and we're going to talk about it here in 751 00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:06,279 Speaker 1: a little bit, but we actually he was gobbling a 752 00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:10,200 Speaker 1: lot of our calls. But we also called us hen 753 00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:13,279 Speaker 1: in ahead of him, right, which was something we'll talk 754 00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:15,120 Speaker 1: to here in a little bit. Is calling to their 755 00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:18,160 Speaker 1: hens um. So kind of staying on the same um 756 00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:21,719 Speaker 1: small public chunks or you know, the public chunks we 757 00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:24,200 Speaker 1: haven't kind of scattered all over here in eastern Washington, 758 00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:26,759 Speaker 1: so we're not hunting I would say the best agg 759 00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:29,840 Speaker 1: fields where sometimes it's clear cut, sometimes it's you know, 760 00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:32,759 Speaker 1: mismanaged for us. Sometimes it's well managed for us. But 761 00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:35,040 Speaker 1: a lot of our stuff is just being done off 762 00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:38,000 Speaker 1: of public you know, we see what ninety It seems 763 00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:40,239 Speaker 1: like they're all the birds are sometimes in the agg 764 00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:43,160 Speaker 1: fields or on the private but yet we've kind of 765 00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:45,880 Speaker 1: devised ways to take advantage of the public that surrounds it. 766 00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:48,880 Speaker 1: Can you give us a little bit of the playbook 767 00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:53,080 Speaker 1: on hunting the little public fringes around these private chunks 768 00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:55,840 Speaker 1: and how you can make that payoff for you? Yeah, 769 00:39:55,880 --> 00:40:02,319 Speaker 1: I think the the looking back probably biggest tip is 770 00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:05,160 Speaker 1: is if if you can get to the edge, you know, 771 00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:08,359 Speaker 1: let's say that that piece of public, like if you're 772 00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:11,400 Speaker 1: up in Stevens County, there's a lot of topography and 773 00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:14,799 Speaker 1: a lot of those toms. You know, they'll they'll probably 774 00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:18,319 Speaker 1: roost off of a ridge above those egg fields, and 775 00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:21,160 Speaker 1: so knowing that they fly down into those fields to 776 00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:24,560 Speaker 1: display and you know, strut around the hands and stuff that, 777 00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:26,600 Speaker 1: and then those hands are probably going to go back 778 00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:29,560 Speaker 1: up into the woods um to nest and so you 779 00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:33,120 Speaker 1: know that they're going to come back up probably those drainages. 780 00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:37,759 Speaker 1: So so try not to get impatient and try to push, 781 00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:41,240 Speaker 1: you know, yourself into a situation where you're not gonna 782 00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:43,359 Speaker 1: you're gonna kind of get stuck and you're not gonna 783 00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:45,640 Speaker 1: be able to move. You know, I always, I always 784 00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:48,640 Speaker 1: create kind of this chess mentality, you know, I try 785 00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:51,440 Speaker 1: to stay ahead of them and try to think about 786 00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:54,120 Speaker 1: you know, okay if I if I don't give them 787 00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:56,480 Speaker 1: the position and I stay above them, then they have 788 00:40:56,520 --> 00:40:58,960 Speaker 1: to come up. It's easier to call it bird up 789 00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:01,560 Speaker 1: than it is to or or at the same level 790 00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:04,160 Speaker 1: than it is to bring them down. So UM, I 791 00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:06,400 Speaker 1: always try to stay on the upward side of a 792 00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:09,640 Speaker 1: field or an opening um and I try to you know, 793 00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:12,120 Speaker 1: utilize the habitat, you know, like we did on the 794 00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:17,239 Speaker 1: swamp bird. But you know, as far as where you 795 00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:20,719 Speaker 1: have a place like that, usually you're going to have 796 00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:23,279 Speaker 1: a lot of other hunters trying to do stuff, you know, 797 00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:26,400 Speaker 1: in those areas too, because they see the birds, you know, 798 00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:28,319 Speaker 1: just like we do when you when you can see 799 00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:31,480 Speaker 1: them out in the open um. But knowing where those 800 00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:34,480 Speaker 1: hands are going to nest and trying to stay ahead 801 00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:37,360 Speaker 1: of those birds, uh and trying to outposition them and 802 00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:39,640 Speaker 1: know kind of where that tom's going to be after 803 00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:44,280 Speaker 1: you know that hands dropped off, um, is pretty pretty important. 804 00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:47,200 Speaker 1: The other the other big factor that we have in 805 00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:50,560 Speaker 1: turkey hunting in general is you know, the size of 806 00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:53,839 Speaker 1: the population. If you have a lot of private land, 807 00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:56,480 Speaker 1: you might have a higher Turkey population than you do 808 00:41:56,560 --> 00:42:00,120 Speaker 1: on public land. UM. And knowing where you have that 809 00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:05,160 Speaker 1: mosaic of public and private, UM, sometimes you'll have large populations. 810 00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:08,040 Speaker 1: And it's pretty typical, you know, the first couple of 811 00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:10,320 Speaker 1: weeks of the season to call in the satellite toms 812 00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:14,759 Speaker 1: right and and get those you know, there's there're two 813 00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:16,920 Speaker 1: year olds that leave, you know, the big tom, the 814 00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:19,840 Speaker 1: dominant tom, he's got all the hands and and all 815 00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:23,239 Speaker 1: of a sudden you're over here yelping, and you're you're 816 00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:26,880 Speaker 1: calling in those two year olds. And it's easy to 817 00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:29,759 Speaker 1: be successful even if you're not hunting those birds in 818 00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:34,200 Speaker 1: the field. So when you're hunting sometimes smaller groups, you know, 819 00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:36,319 Speaker 1: you got to be careful with trying to figure out 820 00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:40,000 Speaker 1: where you're gonna set up so that you don't out 821 00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:45,520 Speaker 1: position yourself. Yep, yep. I like that. And I feel 822 00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:47,520 Speaker 1: one of my biggest mistakes early on when we used 823 00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:49,520 Speaker 1: to hunt over there is we wouldn't try to figure 824 00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:51,600 Speaker 1: out how to get back to that public behind the 825 00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:54,840 Speaker 1: private until midday versus, like you had said, if you 826 00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:57,960 Speaker 1: can get down in there, um, you know, early in 827 00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:00,320 Speaker 1: the morning, get set up. Don't have to just the 828 00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:02,000 Speaker 1: area when the birds are out in the fields and 829 00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:05,160 Speaker 1: wait for those birds to come back up. Um could 830 00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:08,880 Speaker 1: be one of your best players, So yeah, don't You 831 00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:10,279 Speaker 1: may have to start there. There might not be a 832 00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:12,960 Speaker 1: lot of action for the first couple hours, but this 833 00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:15,799 Speaker 1: is a great segue into scouting. If you know that 834 00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:17,719 Speaker 1: those birds are eventually going to go back up a 835 00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:21,520 Speaker 1: certain drainage, you're up a certain fingerage or whatnot, you know, 836 00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:24,480 Speaker 1: being able to patter to them through scouting, UM, it 837 00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:28,520 Speaker 1: can pay off huge. So scouting, UM, you're over there 838 00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:30,040 Speaker 1: a lot, You're out in the field, a lot working 839 00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:32,160 Speaker 1: for fishing, wildlife, doing a lot of work out there. 840 00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:34,319 Speaker 1: You're out in the field, so you know you're you're 841 00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:38,120 Speaker 1: looking at hundreds, if not thousands of birds prior to season. Um, 842 00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:41,000 Speaker 1: how do you take kind of a scouting plan and 843 00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:43,359 Speaker 1: reduce it down to what you think your best hunting 844 00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:45,120 Speaker 1: plan is going to be. You know, you've you've got 845 00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:47,320 Speaker 1: a hundred different toms that you know of that are 846 00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:50,319 Speaker 1: on public How do you figure out where you're gonna 847 00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:52,000 Speaker 1: go and what you're gonna do? Is it based on 848 00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:54,080 Speaker 1: where you think pressure is going to be where you've 849 00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:56,320 Speaker 1: had success in the past, it's your favorite spots or 850 00:43:56,680 --> 00:44:00,200 Speaker 1: what would you say, UM is the biggest determining actor 851 00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:01,799 Speaker 1: on where you're actually gonna go set up on on 852 00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:04,040 Speaker 1: the first morning. Yeah. I think the reality is that 853 00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:06,960 Speaker 1: if I'm seeing that, most people are too. So you know, 854 00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:09,080 Speaker 1: I try to I try to really look at maps 855 00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:12,440 Speaker 1: and understand maps and understood in the lay of the land. UM. 856 00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:18,680 Speaker 1: I think woodsmanship is so critical and being successful anymore, UM, 857 00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:21,840 Speaker 1: depending on if you're hunting birds down in Lincoln County 858 00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:25,600 Speaker 1: where you're you know that agg slash timberland interface and 859 00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:29,320 Speaker 1: they're kind of intermingling and versus the you know mountains 860 00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:34,040 Speaker 1: of you know, Northeast Washington. UM learning the road systems learning, 861 00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:36,719 Speaker 1: you know, all the different access points. You know, there's 862 00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:40,400 Speaker 1: all kinds of things to learn about and uh and 863 00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:43,919 Speaker 1: that all leads to UM. You know, we did that 864 00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:47,600 Speaker 1: last year. We found a spot. We you know, we're 865 00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:51,759 Speaker 1: able to get pretty close to some birds. But I 866 00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:55,480 Speaker 1: took a I love mentoring new hunters and last year, 867 00:44:56,160 --> 00:44:58,399 Speaker 1: just to give you a good example, I was handing 868 00:44:58,400 --> 00:44:59,840 Speaker 1: a big chunk of DNR and I know there's the 869 00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:03,520 Speaker 1: birds there but it's critical to know where you're gonna 870 00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:07,400 Speaker 1: hunt in the morning, and so the idea. So I 871 00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:09,959 Speaker 1: took him and I said, Okay, we're gonna go out 872 00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:13,600 Speaker 1: right at dark, and we're gonna run a five mile 873 00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:18,279 Speaker 1: area right off the highway. In every hundred yards, I 874 00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:23,280 Speaker 1: was doing owl hoots, woodpecker calls, whatever I could to 875 00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:29,040 Speaker 1: get them to gobble, and we located five different toms 876 00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:33,160 Speaker 1: on public land, not knowing if we were going to 877 00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:35,200 Speaker 1: be able to get close to him in the next day, 878 00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:39,959 Speaker 1: but we had no problem finding those birds the next 879 00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:44,720 Speaker 1: day and we had opportunities to get on those birds, 880 00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:49,960 Speaker 1: and it was neat to show. You know, our typical 881 00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:53,000 Speaker 1: hunters they run around and they don't do that anymore. 882 00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:54,640 Speaker 1: They just look at the birds in the field and 883 00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:56,279 Speaker 1: then they try to make a plan for the next 884 00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:59,600 Speaker 1: day and they sometimes it doesn't work out. I love 885 00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:02,680 Speaker 1: setting it up for the night, you know, the night 886 00:46:02,719 --> 00:46:05,640 Speaker 1: before and learning out where those birds are at and 887 00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:09,000 Speaker 1: just trying to find you know, enough targets within the 888 00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:13,640 Speaker 1: public land and you might cover you know, five miles 889 00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:15,399 Speaker 1: before you know the birds shut up for the night, 890 00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:18,440 Speaker 1: but at least you have some idea on where to go. 891 00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:22,560 Speaker 1: The next day. And you know when this time of 892 00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:24,200 Speaker 1: year is a good time of year to be driving 893 00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:28,040 Speaker 1: around looking for birds on private or public and getting 894 00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:32,279 Speaker 1: permission or whatever you want to do. But you know, 895 00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:34,879 Speaker 1: a lot of its elevation and a lot of our 896 00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:37,680 Speaker 1: you know, you know, the birds are low, especially like 897 00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:39,880 Speaker 1: in a hard winter like this year, we have a 898 00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:43,319 Speaker 1: lot of birds that are low. And you know with 899 00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:47,759 Speaker 1: Miriam's they hugged that snow line as it you know, 900 00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:50,719 Speaker 1: starts to dissipate from the high elevations down to the 901 00:46:50,719 --> 00:46:54,040 Speaker 1: lower and you'll, you know, I used to hunt more 902 00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:57,520 Speaker 1: of a higher type of bird compared to where everybody 903 00:46:57,520 --> 00:47:00,719 Speaker 1: else is at down low. So sometimes i'll I'll use 904 00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:03,840 Speaker 1: that intel, you know that I said before, you know, 905 00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:06,480 Speaker 1: learning where the road systems are, trying to get up 906 00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:08,880 Speaker 1: in there, trying to get a good vantage point. In 907 00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:12,200 Speaker 1: the evenings, listening where there's birds trying not to you know, 908 00:47:12,239 --> 00:47:14,239 Speaker 1: you don't have to make a lot of calls to 909 00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:16,439 Speaker 1: get them to gobble. They're going to gobble on their own. 910 00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:21,239 Speaker 1: But and over the years, you know, even hunting into May, 911 00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:25,640 Speaker 1: if you find these areas that they like to hang 912 00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:27,920 Speaker 1: out in, and then the next year you know that 913 00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:30,080 Speaker 1: that's where they're going. So I mean that the intel 914 00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:32,880 Speaker 1: that you use this year is going to be valuable 915 00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:35,920 Speaker 1: next year. And just adding that to your you know 916 00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:40,200 Speaker 1: you're hunting repertoire, you know, is you're just trying to 917 00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:43,439 Speaker 1: get more knowledge. And I think that you know, I've 918 00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:46,399 Speaker 1: been able to say, you know, I'm out of here, 919 00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:48,400 Speaker 1: there's just too many people. I'm going to go to 920 00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:50,279 Speaker 1: this one spot and I'll get up in there and 921 00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:52,920 Speaker 1: I'll find a bird and it doesn't take too long. 922 00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:56,960 Speaker 1: If you just use locating birds in the evening, going 923 00:47:56,960 --> 00:47:59,120 Speaker 1: back into those spots in the morning, knowing the lay 924 00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:02,359 Speaker 1: of the land, I think that's your best best opportunity 925 00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:06,399 Speaker 1: when you're talking about scouting and getting ready for your hunt. Yep, yep. 926 00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:09,840 Speaker 1: Those are all great tips. So my next question, I 927 00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:12,000 Speaker 1: know the answer to it because I've been there as 928 00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:14,239 Speaker 1: you've did it. But do you ever call to the 929 00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:17,919 Speaker 1: hens when they're answering and the gobbler isn't And then 930 00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:21,160 Speaker 1: kind of when you're doing that, what's your strategy and 931 00:48:21,239 --> 00:48:27,640 Speaker 1: your approach behind it? Yeah, the hens themselves, you know, 932 00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:30,120 Speaker 1: if you know there's birds in the area, especially Tom's, 933 00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:32,600 Speaker 1: you don't know if somebody harvested the tom that you 934 00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:34,920 Speaker 1: were hunting earlier in the morning. You have no idea, 935 00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:36,920 Speaker 1: but you know, when you get a hand to answer, 936 00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:43,120 Speaker 1: especially during the early part of the season, usually means 937 00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:46,080 Speaker 1: that they want some company they've been bothered by, you know, 938 00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:48,280 Speaker 1: like this morning, I was watching a bunch of Jake's 939 00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:50,960 Speaker 1: chasing all these hands all over the place. And you know, 940 00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:54,040 Speaker 1: it's the same thing with you know, tom's. You know, 941 00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:57,400 Speaker 1: they especially if your population's got a lot of Tom's 942 00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:00,759 Speaker 1: and them, they won't They're relentless. They'll just keep trying 943 00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:02,880 Speaker 1: to get on top of a hen and get the 944 00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:06,000 Speaker 1: breeding done and sneak sneak in with you know, the 945 00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:09,040 Speaker 1: dominant tom will looking the other way. I mean, they're 946 00:49:09,160 --> 00:49:12,120 Speaker 1: some some of those flocks are relentless, and so you 947 00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:14,800 Speaker 1: know those hens they don't like being there the tom's 948 00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:19,960 Speaker 1: and so um. But when you start talking to some 949 00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:24,080 Speaker 1: of those uh more dominant hands, sometimes that can trigger 950 00:49:24,560 --> 00:49:28,040 Speaker 1: you know, another tom to gobble and because you know, 951 00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:32,120 Speaker 1: they sometimes get territorial, especially if they know that they're 952 00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:35,840 Speaker 1: they're they're with a dominant tom. And you can actually 953 00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:39,960 Speaker 1: strike up different conversations with hands and uh really have 954 00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:43,480 Speaker 1: kind of um, a bitch fest, you know, back and 955 00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:46,200 Speaker 1: forth with them to get them kind of agitated. But 956 00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:49,920 Speaker 1: that can trigger a response from those gobblers to come in. 957 00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:54,759 Speaker 1: And a lot of times, you know, I get that 958 00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:56,959 Speaker 1: when I have you know, a decoy out or something 959 00:49:56,960 --> 00:49:59,520 Speaker 1: like that, that they're they're kind of not too happy 960 00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:02,759 Speaker 1: with it. It gives it realism. But but yeah, that 961 00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:06,560 Speaker 1: the calling it hands sometimes can lead to you know, 962 00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:08,560 Speaker 1: it's kind of like fishing, you know, I mean, you're 963 00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:11,719 Speaker 1: just trying to drag those toms back to the boat, 964 00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:15,080 Speaker 1: so um, but yeah, just trying to trying to get 965 00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:17,719 Speaker 1: those hands excited enough that those toms are going to 966 00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:21,080 Speaker 1: come come in. Yeah, And every every time I've gotten 967 00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:22,960 Speaker 1: too a calling battle with a hand, it seems to 968 00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:26,520 Speaker 1: be like a one upper or we're this is gonna 969 00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:28,839 Speaker 1: be a something we talk about in a little bit 970 00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:31,879 Speaker 1: on progressive calling. But it seems like we start off 971 00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:36,320 Speaker 1: with like a cordial conversation, you know, five six seven, 972 00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:40,680 Speaker 1: you know, yelps, clucks and she'll she'll respond, and by 973 00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:42,560 Speaker 1: time you're done, it seems like you're in a screaming match. 974 00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:44,160 Speaker 1: You all need each other, you know, as you call 975 00:50:44,239 --> 00:50:46,200 Speaker 1: that hen in we called a hen in last year 976 00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:47,960 Speaker 1: and Kansas didn't have a tomb behind her like you 977 00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:49,640 Speaker 1: had mentioned, they're not always going to be there. But 978 00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:52,400 Speaker 1: by time she was dirty yards away, like she was 979 00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:56,160 Speaker 1: just NonStop, like trying to override us. Um that bird 980 00:50:56,239 --> 00:50:59,120 Speaker 1: that we called across the canyon. Um, the very first 981 00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:01,520 Speaker 1: hunt that we ended up up hunt with you at 982 00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:03,400 Speaker 1: the you know, um, you know we ended up we 983 00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:06,920 Speaker 1: could hear the gobbler over there, but ultimately we ended up. Um, 984 00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:08,960 Speaker 1: you know, you open it her just as much. And 985 00:51:09,080 --> 00:51:10,680 Speaker 1: when they before they flew the canyon. So I was 986 00:51:10,719 --> 00:51:12,880 Speaker 1: another one where it seems like she would answer and 987 00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:14,920 Speaker 1: then we kind of slowly switched like all right, we're 988 00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:17,840 Speaker 1: no longer getting uh, you know, the gobbler to answer, 989 00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:19,719 Speaker 1: We're just trying to get her fired up before they 990 00:51:19,719 --> 00:51:22,080 Speaker 1: all pitched. I think in that case it was like 991 00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:25,000 Speaker 1: safety and numbers. I think she was like, I need 992 00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:27,319 Speaker 1: some girl tis. I'm sick of these guys, you know, 993 00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:29,719 Speaker 1: because and I think that's what I think that's what 994 00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:32,120 Speaker 1: it was, you know. Yeah, they were up there on 995 00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:34,759 Speaker 1: the mountaintop. I think it was the big tom that 996 00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:36,600 Speaker 1: you killed, one of the biggest toms I think I've 997 00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:39,960 Speaker 1: still ever seen over there to date, uh that hand 998 00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:42,040 Speaker 1: and then the jake. But I know she got real 999 00:51:42,080 --> 00:51:45,440 Speaker 1: mouthy there towards the end before they pitched over. So yeah, 1000 00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:47,080 Speaker 1: that's just when you start to talk with a hand, 1001 00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:49,440 Speaker 1: I think you can almost expect the conversation to like 1002 00:51:49,600 --> 00:51:52,000 Speaker 1: ramp up as it goes on. You know. That's it 1003 00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:55,239 Speaker 1: brings up a good point because in nature doesn't sound 1004 00:51:55,280 --> 00:51:57,480 Speaker 1: like a calling class goodness all the time. A lot 1005 00:51:57,480 --> 00:52:00,239 Speaker 1: of times it's silence. Yeah, and you I mean, you 1006 00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:01,759 Speaker 1: don't hear it, just hands the help and you know 1007 00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:03,520 Speaker 1: early in the morning, you do when they come down 1008 00:52:03,520 --> 00:52:06,480 Speaker 1: off the roost. But turkeys are pretty quiet, you know. 1009 00:52:06,520 --> 00:52:08,360 Speaker 1: I mean, and I think we have a you know, 1010 00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:11,600 Speaker 1: as hunters, we tend to overcall. And I think that 1011 00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:14,240 Speaker 1: to provide that I kind of feed off those hens. 1012 00:52:14,239 --> 00:52:16,600 Speaker 1: So if she's like soft calling, I'll soft call. If 1013 00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:18,759 Speaker 1: she gets bitchy, I'll get bitchy, you know. And you 1014 00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:22,120 Speaker 1: just kind of back and forth trying to make it 1015 00:52:22,160 --> 00:52:24,279 Speaker 1: more realistic. And I think that there's a lot of 1016 00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:26,680 Speaker 1: times where I'm out in the woods, I'm like, yeah, 1017 00:52:26,719 --> 00:52:29,120 Speaker 1: that's a turkey hunter, you know, boy, he's just going 1018 00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:32,560 Speaker 1: crazy over there. And then out walks his hand. It's 1019 00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:36,960 Speaker 1: wanting company, you know, And I'm like, man, I got 1020 00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:40,400 Speaker 1: surprised on that one, you know. So but yeah, it's uh, 1021 00:52:40,719 --> 00:52:43,719 Speaker 1: it's really important to kind of like just imitate what 1022 00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:47,600 Speaker 1: they're doing back to you. Yeah, so we get all 1023 00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:51,799 Speaker 1: set up on a bird. Um. I think as you 1024 00:52:51,880 --> 00:52:54,560 Speaker 1: just mentioned, I think it's all a great segue and 1025 00:52:54,560 --> 00:52:56,239 Speaker 1: it kind of rolls right into it is you know, 1026 00:52:56,239 --> 00:53:00,759 Speaker 1: turkeys are relatively quiet. Hens will typic at least ramp 1027 00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:03,160 Speaker 1: up their calling. But if you are calling to a gobbler. 1028 00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:06,040 Speaker 1: We've talked about it a bunch, is it's kind of 1029 00:53:06,080 --> 00:53:08,919 Speaker 1: that progressive calling or ramping up the calling. We don't 1030 00:53:08,920 --> 00:53:11,160 Speaker 1: want to come in, you know, you don't want to 1031 00:53:11,200 --> 00:53:13,880 Speaker 1: be you know, cutting cutting up a storm and you know, 1032 00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:18,120 Speaker 1: loud clucks and you know, yelping fifteen times in a 1033 00:53:18,239 --> 00:53:21,520 Speaker 1: row and never given given you know, the woods any silence. 1034 00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:24,440 Speaker 1: So why do why do you feel that we always 1035 00:53:24,440 --> 00:53:27,280 Speaker 1: approach it with it like a progressive ramping up style, 1036 00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:29,839 Speaker 1: And then why does that work? Yeah? I think it's 1037 00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:32,479 Speaker 1: just the nature of the breeding, you know. I think 1038 00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:35,000 Speaker 1: that Tom to get excited the more you know they're 1039 00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:36,840 Speaker 1: dealing with these hens, that have shut them off, and 1040 00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:38,919 Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, there's this hot gall over 1041 00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:41,839 Speaker 1: in the corner, you know, just like, hey, come over here, 1042 00:53:41,880 --> 00:53:44,520 Speaker 1: you know, and so you're so you're kind of feeding 1043 00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:48,839 Speaker 1: off of his excitement and you're trying to figure out 1044 00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:51,040 Speaker 1: if he's responsive or not, and if he's not, you 1045 00:53:51,160 --> 00:53:53,920 Speaker 1: kind of back off. And then in a lot of times, 1046 00:53:54,560 --> 00:53:56,160 Speaker 1: what I like to do is just kind of get 1047 00:53:56,239 --> 00:53:58,440 Speaker 1: them worked up and then I just shut up. I 1048 00:53:58,480 --> 00:54:00,839 Speaker 1: think that's probably one of the trigger years to having 1049 00:54:00,840 --> 00:54:04,080 Speaker 1: a hung up Tom. Is we tend to, you know, 1050 00:54:04,120 --> 00:54:06,080 Speaker 1: the natural thing is for the hen to go to him, 1051 00:54:06,560 --> 00:54:09,720 Speaker 1: and so he's over there, gobblin. And a lot of times, 1052 00:54:09,719 --> 00:54:12,600 Speaker 1: you know, I think it's just if it's a two 1053 00:54:12,680 --> 00:54:15,880 Speaker 1: year old, he doesn't know better, he's probably gonna run 1054 00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:17,680 Speaker 1: right in, you know, and you're gonna get a bird, 1055 00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:20,399 Speaker 1: you know, or you're gonna get an opportunity. But if 1056 00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:23,560 Speaker 1: it's another Tom, and maybe he's got a nd, you know, 1057 00:54:23,600 --> 00:54:25,480 Speaker 1: he's over he's weighing things in his head and he's 1058 00:54:25,520 --> 00:54:26,799 Speaker 1: trying to be like, well, should I stay here with 1059 00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:29,480 Speaker 1: Sally or should I go over there and visit that girl? 1060 00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:31,719 Speaker 1: She sounds more eager. You know, so you never know 1061 00:54:31,920 --> 00:54:36,040 Speaker 1: what situation you're in. But you know, I think that 1062 00:54:36,400 --> 00:54:39,680 Speaker 1: by shutting up, you kind of play hard to get 1063 00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:43,840 Speaker 1: And I think I've killed more birds doing that because 1064 00:54:43,840 --> 00:54:46,200 Speaker 1: it just it breaks them from getting hung up and 1065 00:54:46,320 --> 00:54:48,520 Speaker 1: it makes it kind of gets him to the point. Now, 1066 00:54:48,520 --> 00:54:50,799 Speaker 1: if he gobbles and he's leaving and you can tell 1067 00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:53,239 Speaker 1: that he's gone away, then you know he's probably got 1068 00:54:53,239 --> 00:54:55,960 Speaker 1: a hid, you know. But if he if he gets closer, 1069 00:54:56,360 --> 00:54:58,239 Speaker 1: and I've had I've had a lot of times where 1070 00:54:58,239 --> 00:55:00,560 Speaker 1: it's like, oh, yeah, he's coming, he's come, So I 1071 00:55:00,560 --> 00:55:02,480 Speaker 1: don't really have to make and I might give them 1072 00:55:02,520 --> 00:55:05,839 Speaker 1: a little teaser and just say hey I'm here, still here, 1073 00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:08,200 Speaker 1: and it'll fire him back up and here he'll he'll 1074 00:55:08,200 --> 00:55:10,640 Speaker 1: break him, you know, and he'll come in. So um 1075 00:55:10,719 --> 00:55:14,239 Speaker 1: sometimes uh getting him worked up and then kind of 1076 00:55:14,280 --> 00:55:18,719 Speaker 1: going quiet on him and uh letting letting them kind 1077 00:55:18,719 --> 00:55:21,440 Speaker 1: of think that they're missing out on So yeah, yeah, 1078 00:55:21,560 --> 00:55:24,360 Speaker 1: it's it's similar to our out calling style. You know. 1079 00:55:24,480 --> 00:55:26,959 Speaker 1: To relate that back to anybody that maybe hasn't turkey 1080 00:55:27,040 --> 00:55:30,000 Speaker 1: hunted as much, is just you don't want to come 1081 00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:33,320 Speaker 1: at him throwing the kitchen sink. You want to slowly 1082 00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:37,839 Speaker 1: get them. First, you want them to even consider you, right, 1083 00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:40,080 Speaker 1: so it's like, all right, they've now considered me. Now 1084 00:55:40,120 --> 00:55:42,440 Speaker 1: they're a little bit interested. Now they you know, the 1085 00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:44,279 Speaker 1: next step is do they like what they hear? Do 1086 00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:46,400 Speaker 1: they do? They seem to be you know, and you 1087 00:55:46,440 --> 00:55:50,040 Speaker 1: can you can figure that out really easily by is 1088 00:55:50,040 --> 00:55:53,760 Speaker 1: that turkey answering my every call? Is that turkey answering 1089 00:55:53,840 --> 00:55:57,040 Speaker 1: every fifth call? Um? So you start to really quickly 1090 00:55:57,120 --> 00:56:01,840 Speaker 1: put put things together. Um. You know last year that 1091 00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:04,760 Speaker 1: that bird we were calling to, um. You know, it's like, well, 1092 00:56:05,320 --> 00:56:08,400 Speaker 1: he was answering every gobble and then he went to 1093 00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:11,200 Speaker 1: answer in every you know, tenth gobble and then you're like, 1094 00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:13,080 Speaker 1: all right, we're losing him, you know. So then it's 1095 00:56:13,120 --> 00:56:15,040 Speaker 1: either you've got to be quiet you're gonna lose him anyway. 1096 00:56:15,080 --> 00:56:17,880 Speaker 1: So you're you're trying to just like be a you know, 1097 00:56:17,960 --> 00:56:21,400 Speaker 1: think on the fly. Um. But yeah, first thing, you 1098 00:56:21,400 --> 00:56:23,360 Speaker 1: get their interests. Second, you need to get them committed. 1099 00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:25,160 Speaker 1: And then third, like you said a lot of times, 1100 00:56:25,160 --> 00:56:28,080 Speaker 1: shutting up is what finishes him. Because once that turkey 1101 00:56:28,120 --> 00:56:32,880 Speaker 1: gets to eighty ninety yards, like he already knows exactly 1102 00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:35,239 Speaker 1: what tree you should be under um if you're not 1103 00:56:35,320 --> 00:56:37,520 Speaker 1: using a decoy, get the attention off of you. I 1104 00:56:37,560 --> 00:56:39,800 Speaker 1: think all you can do by calling is like racist 1105 00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:42,399 Speaker 1: suspicion that something's not right as they get close. So 1106 00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:45,200 Speaker 1: that's like that ramping up, get him, get him interested, 1107 00:56:45,320 --> 00:56:48,359 Speaker 1: get him committed, get him worked up, and then kind 1108 00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:50,600 Speaker 1: of turn it off there at the end. I agree 1109 00:56:50,600 --> 00:56:53,760 Speaker 1: with that. Yeah, and your idea that you know, shutting 1110 00:56:53,840 --> 00:57:05,920 Speaker 1: up can can sometimes pr the best. All right. In closing, Eric, 1111 00:57:05,960 --> 00:57:08,400 Speaker 1: we really appreciate having you on here. But what is 1112 00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:11,200 Speaker 1: one tip you feel you could give turkey hunters that 1113 00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:14,880 Speaker 1: would give them better odds at finding success this year? Well, 1114 00:57:14,920 --> 00:57:19,120 Speaker 1: I think get out there and get work working with 1115 00:57:19,160 --> 00:57:20,680 Speaker 1: some of your calls. I know a lot of people 1116 00:57:20,720 --> 00:57:22,800 Speaker 1: do say, oh you don't call early, but you know, 1117 00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:26,880 Speaker 1: at home practice, I think just getting out. It's been 1118 00:57:26,920 --> 00:57:29,080 Speaker 1: a long winter here and I'm anxious just to get 1119 00:57:29,080 --> 00:57:32,120 Speaker 1: out and get my legs back on me. But I 1120 00:57:32,240 --> 00:57:36,760 Speaker 1: think that just getting to a point where you know 1121 00:57:36,800 --> 00:57:39,400 Speaker 1: where there's some birds, you're getting ready for season, and 1122 00:57:40,760 --> 00:57:44,400 Speaker 1: you got everything ready, practice getting your gun ready. This 1123 00:57:44,520 --> 00:57:47,560 Speaker 1: last year I went to a four ten and practicing 1124 00:57:47,560 --> 00:57:50,920 Speaker 1: with that, because you know that's been a fun change. 1125 00:57:51,040 --> 00:57:55,280 Speaker 1: But but yeah, just take the time this March and 1126 00:57:56,240 --> 00:57:59,200 Speaker 1: locate some birds and get all your gear ready. Yeah, yeah, 1127 00:57:59,240 --> 00:58:03,240 Speaker 1: that's that's great. Hip. UM really appreciate Eric. We're gonna 1128 00:58:03,320 --> 00:58:05,920 Speaker 1: I'm gonna head over there that direction, I think the 1129 00:58:06,960 --> 00:58:08,760 Speaker 1: twenty eighth or so, so maybe we'll have to meet 1130 00:58:08,840 --> 00:58:10,840 Speaker 1: up and spend a couple of days in the woods together. 1131 00:58:11,160 --> 00:58:14,320 Speaker 1: M really appreciate you having having you on and good 1132 00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:16,760 Speaker 1: luck if I don't talk to you before season. Thanks Jason, 1133 00:58:17,120 --> 00:58:18,000 Speaker 1: good talking to you again.